Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698841643875.pdf (Sierra Leone)
OAU DRIVE, TOWER HILL, FREETOWN P A R L I A M E N T A R Y D E B A T E S ____ [HANSARD] ______________ OFFICIAL HANSARD REPORT THIRD SESSION –SECOND MEETING THURSDAY, 18TH MARCH, 2021 SESSION – 2020/2021 OAU DRIVE, TOWER HILL, FREETOWN P A R L I A M E N T A R Y D E B A T E S ____ [HANSARD] ______________ OFFICIAL HANSARD REPORT VOLUME: I NUMBER: 2 Second Meeting of the Third Session of the Fifth Parliament of the Second Republic of Sierra Leone.
Proceedings of the Sitting of the House Held Thursday, 18th March, 2021.

2 CONTENTS I. PRAYERS II.

RECORD OF VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS FOR THE PARLIAMENTARY SITTING HELD ON THURSDAY 11TH MARCH 2021 III.

PAPER PAPERS THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND AVIATION IV.

BILL: THE CYBER CRIME ACT 2020 THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION CONTINUED DEBATE.
3 THE CHAMBER OF PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SIERRA LEONE Official Hansard Report of the Proceedings of the House _____________________________________________________________ THIRD SESSION – SECOND MEETING OF THE FIFTH PARLIAMENT OF THE SECOND REPUBLIC _____________________________ Thursday, 18th March, 2021.

I. PRAYERS [The Table Clerk, Mrs Tangella M.C Sam, Read the Prayers] [The House met at 10: a.m. in Parliament Building, Tower Hill, Freetown] [The Speaker, Hon.
Dr Chernor Abass Bundu in the Chair] The House was called to Order 4 COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR Suspension of S. O.

5[2] II.

RECORD OF VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS FOR THE PARLIAMENTARY SITTING HELD ON THURSDAY 11TH MARCH, 2021 THE SPEAKER: We shall now consider the record of the Votes and Proceedings of the 39th Sitting Held on the 11th March, 2021.

We would skip pages 1 through to 4 and we start our consideration from page 5.

Page 5 any amendments?

Page 6?

Page 7?

Page 8?

Page 9?

Page 10 and Page 11?


HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, page 11.

A time line was given to the Committee to look into the issue of the transformer in my Constituency and I further want to inform this Honourable House that there is a serious issue of transformers not only in my Constituency but in the entire country.

As at last night another transformer was damaged and destroyed at New York community within my Constituency.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I want to ask this Honourable House through the security sectors to see how best they could do to set security personnel around these transformers so that we can protect the hard earned achievement of the Ministry of Energy and this Government by extension.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: You have raised multiple issues which one we should deal with first?

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Both, Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Was a timeline given?


I am reliably informed that none was given.

If a timeline was given then what was the timeline?

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Fortnight Mr Speaker, I think it was two weeks for the report.

Mr Speaker, I want to ask this Honourable House if we can give, considering the importance of such a matter that is affecting not only the people in the Constituency… 5 THE SPEAKER: Hold on!

don’t elaborate let us deal with the issues one after the other.
Timeline issue, I am getting both from the Table Clerks and from the Well that no timeline was discussed or agreed upon.

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Mr Speaker, can we have a timeline now if not?

THE SPEAKER: No, we are dealing with the Votes and Proceedings.

You are seeking to interject into the Votes and Proceedings something that did not happen.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, with your permission, we want you to be of assistance to the House.
The matter he is talking about, he raised it during the last Sittings on the issue that deals with transformers.

He has gone under the wrong procedures we know but please assist the House so that the relevance and value which he seeks will eventually be achieved.

THE SPEAKER: It would be done under the second leg of the multiple issues he raised.

You are not done yet, you raised a number of issues.
One is that the damage to transformers is becoming universal not something confined to your Constituency alone, not so?

What are you proposing we should do?

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Mr Speaker, in the wisdom of the Deputy Speaker a Committee was set.

I want to crave this Honourable House to please set a timeline for this Committee to go into action and give report.

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: Mr Speaker, I don’t know how true is that?
We have the Committee on Energy, how can we have another special Committee on that because these are universal problems as you have stated.

I think he has raised a vital point, I think it is affecting most part of Freetown and beyond.

So, I think what we can do is that let us concentrate on what is before us on the Order Paper and treat that matter as a serious matter under a particular headline.
Perhaps you can bring it under your announcement, make some elaboration on it and within the appropriate procedure to address that issue.

It is a very serious issue and we need a Committee to act on that because we don’t want to interject issues concerning going through the Votes and Proceedings for what you have raised of utmost importance.

6 So, I think he can hold on a bit whilst you make your announcement and we contact the Committee for a proper procedure.
But I don’t think a special Committee was put in place for that issue, the only special Committee that was set is for the pollution of Tiaya river.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you for that clarification.

I hope the Honourable Member is now well informed?

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Mr Speaker, there was a joint Committee set by the Deputy Speaker to delve on this matter headed by the Deputy Leader of Government Business.
THE SPEAKER: Honourable Deputy Leader can you say something about this issue?

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE [Deputy Leader of Government Business]: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the Honourable Member, raised an issue about a construction that is going on at Robangba Bridge; it was on that issue that the Committee was set which I am supposed to head.

Of course, the matter of destruction of transformer is very serious.
Thankfully, today we have the Inspector-General of Police here, the Internal Affairs Minister is here and other security personnel, I think we should engage them after this Sitting.

They should hold on because we want to engage them on a very important issue.

Thank you.

THE SPEAKER: The Honourable Member, first let me thank you for raising a very important matter.
Although I would prefer you raise it under S.O [23] to report what has happened in your own Constituency and I am sure what has happened there is not unique, it is spreading right across the country and is therefore assuming a national dimension.

From that perspective, it may require the House to think about setting up a Committee to investigate.
I am very pleased to observe that we have in our midst I think may I now acknowledge his presence the Inspector General of Police, he himself would have heard from Members the seriousness attached to this issue and to crave the indulgence of the police to lend its fullest support to the House to ensure that this 7 matter is investigated.

It is becoming a national issue, not just a single Constituency issue.

So, hold your breath until we come to S.O [23].

HON.
HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: I take my seat Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you.

Is he here and I hope he will bear with us that you would wait until we got to the stage where we deal with S.O [23] matters.

So, I don’t know why the IGP is here but whatever purpose has brought you be patient, now that we have you here we would keep you here for a while.

HON.

CHRISTOPHA K. VANDY: Mr Speaker, I also want to suggest, in that vein we also invite the leadership of EDSA to be in attendance of that meeting.
THE SPEAKER: Well, I agree.

So, please set that in motion since you are the chairperson of Energy.

HON.

CHRISTOPHA K. VANDY: I will, on your instruction Sir.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you.

We have now completed consideration of the Votes and Proceedings.

Can someone please move for the adoption of the Record of Votes and Proceedings for the Parliamentary Sitting held on Thursday 11th March, 2021.

HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: I so move Mr Speaker.

THE SPEKER: Any seconder?

HON.


JEBBEH A. KUMABEH: I so second Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you.

[Question Proposed, Put and Agreed to] [Correction of Votes and Proceedings for Parliamentary Sitting Held on Thursday 11th March, 2021 has been adopted] ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER THE SPEAKER: I have several announcements to make and I would be doing so intermittently in the course of our proceedings today.

8 The first announcement concerns the ECOWAS Parliament.
I make this announcement because I can claim credit for being Head of ECOWAS at the time that the 1993 revised ECOWAS Treaty was negotiated and signed by all Heads of State of the West African Region.

It is under that revised treaty of 1993 that the ECOWAS Parliament was formed.

So, Sierra Leone can rightly claim to have something to do with the creation of the ECOWAS Parliament and coincidentally as we speak that Parliament is headed today by one of our own in the person of the Honourable Sidie M. Tunis.
And through his good offices the ECOWAS Parliament is holding its first Extraordinary Session here from the 23rd to the 25th of March when it would start with a seminar, to which I have been invited to give the keynote address.

It would be followed by the first ordinary session from the 29th to the 2nd of April, and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Sierra Leone has been invited to give the keynote address to the opening session on the 29th.
May I implore all Honourable Members, to make it a duty to attend both the seminar and the official opening of the Extra Ordinary Session not only in support of the Right Honourable Speaker of Parliament but in acknowledgment of the fact that Sierra Leone had something to do with the creation of that Institution and it is but fitting that we continue to demonstrate our country’s interest in course of its development.

Your tacit response means yes.

Yes, all of you will attend.

HON.


P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Yes Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Yes Honourable Paramount Chief.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Yes Sir, where is the meeting going to take place and where are we going to sit and where are the ECOWAS MPs going to sit?

THE SPEAKER: I don’t know whether that has been finally settled but you would be duly informed when it is.

HON.
HON.

SIDIE M. TUNIS [Speaker of the ECOWAS Parliament]: Mr Speaker, the Leader of delegation is here, he can respond to that.

9 THE SPEAKER: Leader of delegation of Parliament of Sierra Leone to the ECOWAS Parliament please respond?

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: I am not yet done Sir.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Oh you are not yet done?

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Yes?

HON.


CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, I don’t want this to be a subject of debate; this is just for the information of the House.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: No, it’s not a debate.

I am not raising point, I am not debating please.

THE SPEAKER: You were simply asking for the venue.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: No, I am not yet done with my question.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Chief, I am up now please.

HON.


P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: No, let me finish Mr Speaker, I am not done it is a simple question.

THE SPEAKER: You are done with the first question, namely the venue.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: I am not done with the first question.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: I am up Mr Speaker.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: So, if you are up nobody should speak.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: No!

no!

no!

HON.


P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Well I am down.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Honourable Chief!

10 HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: No, no, no well I am down.

Mr Speaker, you cannot run Parliament that way Sir.

THE SPEAKER: No Sir.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, in this House we have procedures.

THE SPEAKER: Hold on.


Honourable Paramount Chief Sir, my understanding is that you wanted to know the venue for this important meetings but I wanted us to finish with that first question because I could not answer it.

If I had the answer I would have given it but I don’t have it.

I would come back to you for the other issues you wanted to add to the first.

Chief one thing I know about you, you like me to claim seniority in age but nobody can accuse you of porosity of the mind, no way.
Yes answer the question please.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

To assist this House, I want to confirm that through the office of the Clerk all necessary information would be communicated to the Members of this House.

Thank you very much.

THE SPEAKER: So, there is still no venue as of now?

HON.
HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: There is, but as I said there are more information needed beyond just the venue, like the Chief was saying, all those information including the venue which I would say for your information is the Bintumani conference centre but all other information will be communicated officially to Members through the Office of the Clerk.

THE SPEAKER: Well thank you.

I think the latter part of your intervention is helpful, not the first.

You were still vacillating with the first.

HON.


SIDIE M. TUNIS: Mr Speaker, just to help the Leader of delegation, I just want to inform Honourable Members, that the Sitting arrangement both Members of the ECOWAS Parliament and Members of Sierra Leone Parliament will be Sitting together for the opening.

The Leader of delegation decided on that yesterday.

The Sitting fees the Leader of delegation also will decide on that.

11 HON.
11 HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, for the information of this House I am not in charge of any finances, very important.

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: Mr Speaker, I don’t know who should we believe, they have the Speaker of delegation, they have the Speaker of ECOWAS and we are just asking for sitting fee and he said he is not in charge.

So, who is in charge?

Are you in charge Mr Speaker?

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: The Speaker, the ECOWAS Parliament is in charge.

HON.
HON.

SIDIE M. TUNIS: I am just a Speaker; I am not the Leader.

THE SPEAKER: I presume now that the issue of sitting fees has been raised, we can comfortably take it that there will be sitting fees though the quantum is yet to be determined.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, that is not coming from me I don’t have that authority.

THE SPEAKER: I am assuming.

HON.


CHERNOR R.M BAH: Yes that is what I am saying but for the record Mr Speaker, we are hosting the ECOWAS Parliament but the management of the session is going to be done by the ECOWAS Parliament we are just the host.

But all the management is going to be done by the ECOWAS Parliament for the record.

THE SPEAKER: I see here plenty of rooms for collaborations between the host country and the ECOWAS Parliament.
So, if that is the case, neither party can absorb itself from responsibility.

I expect the two to continue to collaborate effectively and efficaciously to ensure that the needful is done.

No!

No!

I am not recognising you Chief it is not done, he started with one point he is coming to the next one.

HON.
HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Mr Speaker, I think what I wanted to say I have forgotten but based upon that as we are making arrangement for where Parliament is going to meet, let us consider the environment in which we are operating.

Our toilets are terrible I hope you will not even bring them in here because it will be too 12 terrible to take ECOWAS Members of Parliament to these toilets and Mr Speaker water facility is also a problem.

THE SPEAKER: Paramount Chief just a moment.


Let me address the Members of the female Caucus of Parliament because I am beginning to see certain moves that are contrary to the policy of Parliament.

Once Parliament is in session no side meetings are allowed that is a standard practice that must be respected and observed.

So, my answer to the request I have received from the Female Caucus, the answer is no.
You are not allowed to go and hold a Female Caucus meeting whiles we are sitting in the Well, you have to wait.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Mr Speaker, on the sitting fee arrangement, we have organized other Parliaments to come to Sierra Leone.

We the organizers took responsibility to find funding for sitting fees for Members of Parliament both those who came and all those who were sitting in this Parliament, IPU we did that.
I was the Chairman for that, so if they want to slide it they cannot slide it.

Thank you Sir.

HON.

SIDIE M. TUNIS: Mr Speaker, what the Honourable Paramount Chief is talking about also obtains at the ECOWAS Parliament especially when we sit at our headquarters in Abuja.

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: Mr Speaker, this is very sensitive but the heavy weight we have representation in the ECOWAS Parliament and looking at the light weight we had at that time in the IPU, I don’t see debate occurring.
I was expecting the Speaker of ECOWAS to endorse and say we can do the necessary arrangement so that we can get a sitting fee.

Mr Speaker, we are getting doubt you are bringing MPs from all over the country and you don’t want to give sitting fee with a big nomenclature Speaker of ECOWAS.

In fact in the sub region you are subordinate to him Mr Speaker so we are expecting you to tell us something.

13 HON.

SIDIE M. TUNIS: Point of correction!


He is the Speaker of Sierra Leone Parliament unlike any other Speaker in the region.

He will remain to be my Boss at all time because the reason for that and a lot of people don’t understand I am a Member of this Parliament I am only a Speaker of ECOWAS Parliament and he is my Speaker.

So, he will forever and ever remain to be my Boss Mr Speaker Sir I bow.

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: Mr Speaker, I beg to differ let me elaborate on that.
THE SPEAKER: You are not allowed to, no need for elaborations.

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: Okay Mr Speaker.

So, can you take onus that you give us our sitting fee?

THE SPEAKER: That question is irrelevant.

HON.


BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, having in our midst the Speaker of ECOWAS Parliament is a blessing and hosting the ECOWAS Parliament here also is a blessing to us and one thing the ECOWAS Speaker should bear in mind is on the 27th we will be having our lower level elections in our Constituencies but we are going to come and we are going to definitely support the ECOWAS Parliament and we expect support in return.
So, Mr ECOWAS Speaker you should consider that we are going to leave our Constituencies to come and support you, so you should be prepared because we have always prayed for you to hold this position so that we would benefit from your good office.

This is the time for us to support the Members of Parliament and definitely we are assuring you that we would be there in full force to support you.

Thank you, no comment Sir.


THE SPEAKER: Honourable Members, let me revert to a matter I have addressed a little while ago.

This question about the Female Caucus taking leave of Parliament to go and attend a meeting to which they have been invited by the Ministry of Gender and Children’s Affairs in case they did not know before now, let them know this going forward.
“Once the House is in session no other meetings are allowed.” Precedence must always be given to Parliament Sitting in the Well in plenary; there can 14 be no compromise of that rule let it be clearly understood.

Therefore, I repeat any Female Member of the Female Caucus is not allowed to leave the Well for the purposes of attending the meeting.

In spite of the fact that I have been shown an invitation card, you ought to have known this well before now.
Honourable Members, let me come to a matter about which I am well informed, and I say this with the utmost seriousness that Sierra Leone as a country is playing host to the ECOWAS Parliament.
I repeat Sierra Leone as a country is playing host to an Institution of ECOWAS known as the ECOWAS Parliament, what this means is that every official be it of Parliament or Government is obliged to give maximum support and cooperation to ensure the success of that meeting in our territory and I am very pleased to observe from your early tacit response the concurrence of all Honourable Members to ensure that they attend both the seminal and the session of the extraordinary meeting of ECOWAS in Sierra Leone.
We owe it to ourselves as a country; we owe it to ourselves as a Member of ECOWAS is part of our obligation.

So, I hope no Member of Parliament will need any further reminding that when the day comes we shall appear there in full force and our attendance will be more than impressive so that the visitors who come can go with the impression very clearly and very resoundingly that Sierra Leone takes ECOWAS matters very seriously.

I beg of you to pay heed to the advice I have just given.
Let me finally add that both as a country and more particularly the Honourable Members from Kono District who more than an ordinary obligation to be there because ECOWAS has just provided funds very recently ratified in this Parliament for the establishment of the University of Kono.

So, all of us are beneficiaries of that great contribution that ECOWAS has made to our country but more particularly the Members of Parliament from Kono District.

Thank you.

HON.
Thank you.

HON.

SAM P. SAM: Mr Speaker, you can be assuring of our commitment, we would be there.

THE SPEAKER: With that said Honourable Members, we shall now continue with the other items on the Order Paper.

15 PAPERS LAID THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND AVIATION MR KABINEH KALLON [The Minister of Transport and Aviation]: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, with your leave I beg to lay on the Table of this Honourable House the following papers; i.
AGREEMENT CARGO TRACKING NOTE SYSTEM BY AND AMONG SIERRA LEONE PORTS AUTHORITY [SLPA] AND THE GOVERNMENT OF SIERRA LEONE REPRESENTED BY THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AD AVIATION [ GOSL] AND NATIONAL COMMISSION FOR PRIVATIZATION [NCP] AND LOGISTICS SOLUTIONS AND SERVICES [SL] LTD [THE CONTRACTOR], DATED 4TH DAY OF FEBRUARY, 2020. ii.
FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE CARGO TRACKING NOTE SYSTEM BY AND AMONG SIERRA LEONE PORTS AUTHORITY [SLPA] AND THE GOVERNMENT OF SIERRA LEONE; REPRESENTED BY THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AND AVIATION [GOSL] AND NATIONAL COMMISSION FOR PRIVATIZATION [NCP] AND LOGISTICS SOLUTIONS AND SERVICESS [SL] LTD [THE CONTRACTOR] DATED 25TH DAY OF JANUARY, 2021.

THE SPEAKER: Honourable Members, may I have your attention please?

Under item 3 announcement by Mr Speaker, I have several announcements to make, I had completed one.
The second one is to remind this Honourable House about certain papers that were laid on the Table of the House by the learned Attorney General and Minister of Justice some time ago and in relation to which the Leader of the Opposition moved the Motion that was carried calling for the clock to be brought to a halt on that particular matter.

I would like to invite the Leader of the Opposition to inform the House what his current position on that issue is?
It has been some months ago that this incident happened so it is still current and I want to know his position on it.

He had a reason for making that move the last time; I don’t know whether that reason still persists?

16 HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Yes Mr Speaker.

The reason still persists and if we had a prior consultation or conversations I would have said that to you but again let me repeat that my position is still the same.
The reason why I moved the Motion still exists except it is addressed then would ask that we continue the status quo.

THE SPEAKER: And if I recall rightly there was a particular principle that was the driving force behind the Motion.

If I recall, it was the principle of retroactivity of penal Legislation as proscribed by the Constitution of Sierra Leone that you wouldn’t want retroactivity to be given to the papers laid and to the regulations contain therein.

Am I right?

HON.
Am I right?

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Correct Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Leader of Government Business, what do you say to that?

HON.

MATHEW S. NYUMA: It was based on that he moved the Motion and the Motion was seconded by me because if you say we are going to retroactive to the consequences and that will not be good down with the content of the law.

So, I accept his Motion and I believe we should move to what he has proposed.

THE SPEAKER: Fine!

So, there will be no retroactivity?


On that understanding can we now have a Motion for the regulations to see the light of day and to be passed by this Honourable House?

HON.

SEGENPOH S. THOMAS: Mr Speaker, I so move.

THE SPEAKER: Any seconder?

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, I so second.

THE SPEAKER: I have a Motion that the regulations laid, be passed by the House.

HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker based on the fact that they are not going to be retroactive.
THE SPEAKER: Yes that is the understanding, but you should on the understanding that the regulations will not have retroactive effect.
17 [Question Proposed, Put and Agreed to] [The motion moved has been carried] THE SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I would like to give special recognition to the following personalities in our midst; Mr David Panda Noah, Minister of Internal Affairs, Dr Ambrose Michael Sovula, Inspector General of Police, Dr Ahmed A. Sannoh, Chief of staff ONS, Mr Manso Mansaray, Assistant Director Provincial and Boarder security department ONS, Mr Brima M. Sowa, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Transport and Aviation, Mr Alpha Saidu Bangura, Western Region Coordinator Outreach Unit, Ministry of Information and Communication, Mr Prince A.S Bio, Acting Managing Director Sierratel, Mr Morie Saffa, Cyber Security Coordinator, Ministry of Information and Communication, and Mrs Mamadi Gobeh Kamara, Deputy Minister of Information and Communication.
You are all most welcome.

All of these personalities are here in connection with the Bill that is before the House, the Cyber Crime Act 2020.

So, shall we proceed?

BILL: THE CYBER CRIME ACT 2020 THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION CONTINUED DEBATE.

THE SPEAKER: I advise that debate on the second reading continues, but I doubt whether we shall be able to conclude.

HON.

CHERNOR A. BAH: Indeed Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: The debate today… HON.


CHERNOR A. BAH: Thank you very much for that statement Mr Speaker.

The Minister knows why Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: I observe from the Vote and Proceedings that the decision taken by the House, was that the general public should be sufficiently at least engaged on as why the platform as possible before we can proceed to conclude the debate on the second reading of the Bill.
Maybe on that issue I will like to invite the Minister to inform 18 this House about what he has done with regard to engaging the general public thus far and what he also proposes to do to continue that engagement of the general public to enable us determine the time line for the conclusion of the debate on the second reading.

HON.

DR MARK M. KALOKO: Mr Speaker…..

THE SPEAKER: Yes Honourable Member.


HON: DR MARK M KALLOKO: Mr Speaker, the last time the issue was not only to engage the general public but it also should be the participation of Members of Parliament.

THE SPEAKER: Would you hold your breath and pose a question to the Minister, he will tell us about the proposals he has in mind for the full engagement of the general public and that general public of course includes Members of Parliament.

So, let give him an opportunity to explain.


MR MOHAMED R. SWARRAY [The Minister of Information and Communication]: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members of Parliament, Distinguish Ladies and Gentlemen here present, the question posed by the right Honourable Speaker is quite pertinent.
His Excellency President Bio stresses this even before any Cabinet papers approved there has to be any concrete evidence of thorough engagement of key salient holders group for that paper to go through that was sufficiently demonstrated prior to what lead to the coronation into the Cyber Crime Bill started as one of those conference diplomacies while I was in Ethiopia in 2019, that was why I engaged the Council of Europe.
I explained to them the need, the very compelling need at the time for Sierra Leone to be able to address Cyber Security issues; they graciously supported us through the council of Europe with both technical and financial support to put this Bill together.
A three Member delegation from European Union was here who are Cyber Crime expert to work with the Attorney-General department to put this Bill together in that meeting, the right Honourable Speaker were representatives from Parliament, Members of Civil Society, Law Officers department and such other interested groups.

19 So, the consultations started right from there for the development of the Bill itself.

Fast forward a few months later we started wild ranging engagement.
Political Parties here represented in Parliament were at those engagements and they made firm commitments on behalf of their various Political Parties.

So, we have started the process of engaging before now, beyond that we have heard two pre-legislative sessions to discuss with Members of Parliament the key and critical bit of the Bill and why it is important for Sierra Leone to pass a Cyber Crime Bill into law.
So, all of these things have happened but over and above that under my leadership we have been able to bring to town the delegation from one of the biggest social media providers to engage with members of the public, some Parliamentarians and MDAs on Cyber Crime Bill and the use of social media generally.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, a couple of month sometimes last year, we had representatives of Facebook here, they held various engagement with people including Members of Parliament, so as a result of those engagement I told them that we have started piloting the Cyber Crime Bill through Parliament, they are very excited and they have committed to give us our credit so that we can popularize the Bill.
You and I fairly recognise the fact that the popularization of the Bill doesn’t stop this enactment in fact that is when the job starts.

There have been a lot of power consultations, and the media has been very supportive.

This is a commitment we made to continue it, before I got in here a WhatSapp message from Facebook committing that they are quite happy to support us in popularizing this Bill.
So, in coming days I expect once you open your social media platform be it Twitter, be it Facebook and WhatSapp you are most likely supposed to get a message relating to the passing of the Cyber Crime Bill here.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, so there are a lot more plans to further ensure that everybody in Sierra Leone knows about the Cyber Crime Bill and why it is important, the object that is seek to address an archive that is why accompanying me here we have quite a battery of variegated delegation from various walks of life.
We have here the Inspector-General of Police, Office of National Security, Members of my Strategic Communication Department at the Ministry of Information and Communication, in fact 20 as a bonus I also came along with the Deputy Minister of Information and Communication who as the matter of fact in the next one or two hours she will be chairing the regular press briefing but insisted since Parliament was interested in a full house, a full delegation, a full package from my end and all staff are here today.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, for me this awareness raising and sensitization does not stop because it is an going process.

So, I want in that context to ask that we do whatever needs to be done so that this process could go on.

Less I forget yesterday we got a firm commitment from ECOWAS, the SA group that has been supporting us that they are quite happy to support us with awareness raising and sensitization bit whiles this Bill go through Parliament.
So, already we have done a lot of ground work; we have done a lot of sessions; we have done a lot of interviews and we have held a lot of town hall meetings across the country.

Last week I was in Pujehun as part of the further decentralization of Government engagement and I was surprised that a member of the Public raised a question around the Cyber Crime Bill, I was very excited, I knew my men indeed are getting boost from the ground everywhere.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, this engagement will continue and be sure that this is what I do for a living ensuring that I prefer what Government does so the Cyber Crime Bill will be no exception.

We will shout it on roof top; we will say it everywhere; we will ensure that every drum dick and array knows about in every look and corner of the country.

So, Right Honourable Speaker, thank you very much.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Minister for his statement.
It is a good beginning no question but the interest of the House is to ensure that the ordinary citizens of this country from extremity to extremity, from Yealiboya to Pendembu, from kroobola to Tombo are well informed about the content of this Bill, so important is the content that we want the grassroots to know what Parliament is about to pass.
So, I think we should go beyond the ordinary; we should take extraordinary effort here to ensure that the popularization of the Bill reaches the farthest extremities of this country.

I am sure Honourable Members here would want to be part and parcel of the process of that popularization.
Maybe we need to amplify a bit more, let amplified this 21 popularization a bit more so I allow two speakers from each side of the aisle who are knowledgeable about how we can amplified, how we can really popularized this Bill to reach the ordinary people so that they understand it content.

Paramount Chief I give you the Floor.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: I thank you Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Honourable Minister for presenting this Bill to us.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, for me this Bill is very important and honourable Minister and your Deputy, this Bill we are going to debate today carries the important and some of the things that we rejected in the Public Order Act of 1965 I read it and Mr Speaker it would be of great note to know that I went through the Well.

I want the attention of the Minister please.

Mr Minister, I have with me here the convention on Cyber Crime held at Budapest on the 23rd of November 2001.
Reading through what I read it is the most important convention yet held by the World and when I went through this I saw a lot of what is written on the Cyber Crime convention written by the council of European Union on Cyber Crime, a lot of things were requested word for word in our Bill.

You can look at Section [4] of this Bill then you look at Article [14] on the convention is the same and the drafters were so intelligent… THE SPEAKER: Chief.

HON.

P.C.

BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Yes Sir.


THE SPEAKER: I wanted us to focus on the critical element of popularization of this Bill before we come to the substantive debate on the second reading.

So, let confine our comments for now to how we could popularized this Bill.

Let us give idea to the Minister and his Ministry responsible for the popularization of the content of the Bill before we can actually get into the nitti gritty, the substance of the Bill itself.
We want the general public; the man in the street, the man and the woman in the poda-poda of this country to understand what Parliament is about to Legislate.

So, Chief we have not started the debate on the second reading yet.

Just on that small element of how we 22 can assist the Minister’s effort in popularizing the content of the Bill.

And let focus on that for the time being.

HON.

P.C.
HON.

P.C.

BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: I like that Mr Speaker, and I want to say if they want to popularized this Bill, first of all I mentioned last week that they should bring to Parliament copies of the convention that will give us a broad-spectrum to know very well that what we are about to do has been accepted by the International Community, and it is something that is very important.
For me I have the complete articles of the convention here, l went through the website printed it and maybe I will send it to you to look at it.

So, by doing that they should know prissily that this Bill is based upon the Budapest convention.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, secondly, they should also educate us; educate the people on the Leadership of the convention, although you said we should not go into the Nitti gritty but Section [47] and Section [48] should be brought up to the public to tell us exactly what that is because the language used by the drafters some of them are purely lawyer language that they can understand among themselves.
Let them try to simplify Sections that are very critical for us to understand and also we expect drafters to come to Parliament and give us detail information about this because the powers we have given reading through this document is very critical.

We should try to do that and I am sure they can call Parliamentarians who are au fait with this Bill to discuss that on the radio stations, the TV stations so that the public will be aware of what is going on.
I think the Minister can facilitate so that different views could be heard and also we want to hear what NATCOM is saying about this Bill, SIERRATEL is saying about this Bill, Africel and Orange are saying about this Bill so that we will understand, the public will understand what is going on because the ISP are going to participate because they have a major role not only in financing but in the regulations and the laws that will affect the public and what are the roles of the ISPs and SALCAB because when you read this side of the Bill you will know that the powers given to the Police, the powers given to the response teams are very important and for me I will expect that we debate 23 this Bill both the public sector, the Civil Society, the Journalists, SLAJ all should participate fully and then give us the information.
I thank you for given me the Floor.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Paramount Chief for his contribution.

He has mentioned the few things perhaps let me repeat them in a very brief way.

I think engagement through the radio is important, through television, through town meetings and even at the level of District, Chiefdoms and different level of engagement of the public.
I mean it is very key that this is done and of course Members of Parliament will be intimately involved with the process throughout.

So, is mentioned quite a few, engagement through the radio, engagement through television public discussion, public debate, town meetings, District level meetings and so on and so forth.

So, the Honourable Member from Karene District, you have the Floor.

HON.
HON.

MOHAMED BANGURA: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, this Bill we are about to debate and pass is very important and it is the people’s Bill.

So, I will recommend to the Minister of information to work with Parliament so that we can go to our people, and sit down with them in order to discuss this Bill properly.

You know when you talk about misuse of devices and extradition many people in this country do not know that when you have your device and you misuse is a crime.
And people sit outside of Sierra Leone sending reckless audios; they don’t know what are the ramification and my illiterate Aunt in the village listen to it, she sit down with colleagues to listen to the same audio.
Mr Minister, one way we want to work with you is for us to go to our constituencies take this Bill with us, we start to discussion this Bill word by word to the people so they will understand and when we come now for the debate it is not going to be for us, it is not going to be for us because we Members of Parliament already know about this Bill, but the people down there don’t have the smallest idea about this Bill.

So, I will advise that we go back and talk to our people.
THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Member from Karene District.

Narrow your focus on the popularisation of this Bill.

24 HON.

CHRNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, if that is the case we should have everybody standing up, if we are going to continue...

THE SPEAKER: I did say I was going to only take two from each side.

So, I have taken two gentlemen and let me take a lady.

HON.
HON.

ALICE J. KUMABEH: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, a gap has been in existence in this country especially on sensitization, most of the time when we look at very important issues big monies are given to organizations to do the advertisement on line, on the radio and if that is the case then it is only the people in Freetown and very few people that will benefit from that.
And if we are talking about sensitization, information also needs to be decentralized, what I mean by this is that if we want to really go by this programme by living no one behind then we should work with our community radios and we have our artist in our communities, let the institutions work with the local artist in our communities because if they just higher big companies to do the sensitization it is not for even 70% of this country that will get the information, it will be for Freetown and the rest of the world, 70% of the population and more in this country do not have televisions, they don’t even have radios most of them, but if they see their children making dramas, singing and dancing given them the key messages of that information, I think it will yield a very good dividend, these are my suggestion.
Mr Minister, I want to implore you when you are ready for that type of sensitization, please walk through the Members of Parliament but Mr Speaker it is a gap that most of the times when people are going to our constituencies we don’t even know, it is our people that will call and asked us why don’t we see you here, what is it, we don’t know why some of the Ministers do not want to work with us.
If I have been able to work with over 63,000 people, I can be able also to give them good information about our existence and for the good of this country.

It is not only for Freetown and the rest of the world and the International community but if we want our people to get this information let them work through the Members of Parliament.

Thank you very much.

25 THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Member for her contribution.
Let me take one Independent Member, and then another Member from Pujehun then we end the debate.

HON.

SHIAKA SAMA: Mr Speaker thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I want to thank the Minister for this initiative, we need to take the fight to the high-tech criminals Mr Speaker, and we are not going to just say it, we are going to do it.

The Minister has started on the right footing, and I hope when we say radio sensitization, it's not just going to be about Freetown, Bo, and other cities.
Most of us here are from the provinces from the rural areas, we are rural area MPs, we hope when we say sensitization, all Sierra Leoneans in all localities will be considered.

I want to suggest particularly that we should prepare jingles, short songs in the local languages could be very effective, it is very attractive, and I want to urge the Minister to prepare jingles in all local languages.
We can have panel discussion but we cannot have people going on radio every day, it is going to be very expensive, but with jingles you could partner with the radio stations to play those jingles on daily basis for a particular period of time without much cost… Suspension of S.O [5]2 HON.

SHIAKA SAMA: Mr Speaker, I have had a very close association with Civil Society organizations, there is always this struggle between Government and Civil Society organizations.
Civil Society organizations claim that they have not been adequately involved in the running of Government.

I want to suggest a thorough engagement of Civil Society organizations, and then many of them have received funds from donors for the purpose of sensitizing the people.
I will suggest that the Minister and other Ministries should very effectively engage Civil Society organizations in their activities because Civil Society organizations run workshops throughout the country; they engage communities throughout the country.

So, if there could be some improved or increased partnership between the Ministry and civil society organizations that could help.
They also have the advantage of actually demonstrating that there is inclusion of people who claim to speak for the communities to be engaged in getting them informed 26 Mr Speaker.

Again, I want to thank you very much for the opportunity, and lastly, I will thank the Minister for this initiative.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Member for his contribution.

We would now close this particular aspect of our deliberations with another Honourable Member from Pujehun.
HON.

DICKSON M. ROGERS: Thank you Mr Speaker.

I know the Minister in question is not a stranger when it comes to PRO, because most of what he is been doing in his life he has been PRO for corporate organizations.

So, I know he knows exactly what we are talking about.

Let me start my intervention by addressing one issue about global agreements.

Global agreements are just fundamental principles that give the country the lead to take their own responsibilities.
So, if we are talking about International Cyber Crime, some of those Acts were passed to give us a leeway to formulate our own laws.

So, I am not sure if we depend too much on those International laws.

Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I think taking the queue from the is it the Deputy Leader of the Independent, or the Leader of the Independent, I am suggesting that after today, we give the Ministry probably two weeks to take this Bill to the nation.
Now, every District Headquarter in this country have more than one or two radio stations, like the Independent Member was saying; “they can formulate jingles, and send them to every radio station to play at least for three or four days”, then now we have the PRO's of the Ministry of Information, I am sure if the head office cannot go, they have PRO's in various regions or Districts, they can use them adequately to propagate the information in the Bill, so by the end of the day we have the Ministry to go in those Districts and have either a town hall meeting or radio discussion.
If the jingle goes out for four days or five days, at the end of one week, they can now have enough evidence and sufficient information to give out to the people by then they do have listen the discussion and the jingles.

Maybe before the end of the two weeks, they can now write or inform all the Honourable Members of every District that they are going to attend those meetings.
I believe when once those meetings are attended with Honourable Members, Paramount Chiefs, Civil Societies, and the Ministry will now tell 27 the people of that District exactly what the cybercrime involves.

Mind you Mr Minister, this Bill after the passage will affect even a “Joe Vamboi” in the village because if a text is forwarded to me and I forward it to another person, the person I am forwarding that text to also have a question to answer.
Therefore, we need to educate them as to which of the message from what’s sap to forward if you don't want to have a problem.

So I agree with you, Mr Speaker, the Ministry needs to be given at least two weeks to popularize this Bill before we can pass it into law.

So, the Civil Society will not come tomorrow and say no, this Bill is harsh, we were not informed, and therefore we are going to protest against it.

Let us don't give them that ammunition.


Let us make sure that they are adequately informed, and they participate also in the town hall discussion.

I thank you.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Member for his contribution.

I will now give the Floor the Deputy Leader of Government Business.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I stand on S.O [37] because of the sensitive nature of this Bill.
We expect every member of our society to understand this Bill before it is pass into law.

I will move that we adjourn the debate to the next meeting.

Thank you very much.

THE SPEAKER: By all means.

No!

no!

My good old friend, what basically we are seeking to do and what the dilatory motion is about is to give sufficient time to the Minister to popularize this Bill because of its sensitive nature.
And in fact, the question I have for the House is, once you pass this motion that is before you now, what timeline do you want to give the Minister before we consider this Bill again?

Mr Minister, give us guidance as to how long you want this popularization to take place.

You have listened to both sides of the aisle, and I think there is a consensus developing that this Bill needs to be popularized indeed.
So, we are happy with what you have started, and we implore you to continue with it, but in a more vigorous way, a more expansive way, over to you Mr Minister.

28 MR MOHAMED R. SWARRAY: Thank you very much Honourable Speaker.
Honourable Members, an excellent way to deepen the general understanding of this Bill is probably by first, I don't know if this is within Parliamentary procedure, I would have thought that as the debate continues, I would have had an opportunity to respond to some of the issues raised by Members of Parliament so that they too could deepen their understanding of the Bill, because I already understand that many of them have read the Bill, and as we go on, we will sharpen that.
So, I would have loved the opportunity to speak to some of the key questions that arose in the last session will have deepen our understanding of the Bill as part of the general awareness raising.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Minister, of course you will have to summarize at the end of the day, you will have to answer questions and concerns raised by Members of Parliament, please take notes of the concerns and questions.

You will be the last speaker before we finish the second reading.
THE SPEAKER: Thank you for that.

Mr Minister, let me again, refocus your mind.

I asked you specifically about a timeline.

That is what I want you to address.

Don’t go into the other details.

HON.

MOHAMED R. SWARRAY: Okay.

I think somebody had proposed a two-week period.

During that two week… THE SPEAKER: Is that sufficient?

HON.
HON.

MOHAMED R. SWARRAY: Yes, that will be sufficient, and I stand here before Parliament clearly understands the ramifications of some of the things they have asked for today is going to require logistics, is going to require a lot of wherewithal, so from now on, I hope we are able to mobilize the much needed resources to work with MPs, which I very much look forward to continue to work with Civil Society, which I have always worked with.
In fact, if it were not for reasons that I might be charged with dereliction of duty, we would have asked Civil Society to present this Bill because they have been working with us from the very inception to this day, so they are very much a part of it.

29 So, Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I think two weeks will be enough, during which time we would have done a lot more… THE SPEAKER: You have answered the question.

You may take your seat.

I will give you a bonus of one week on top.

I think three weeks.


HON.

CHERNOR R.M BAH: Mr Speaker, before I second the motion that was moved by the Leader.

If I have your permission, I want to make a short statement; firstly, I want to be one of those who will acknowledge the effort that has been made by the Minister so far in this Bill.

We have to give credits to the Minister; we are not yet fully satisfied with the process that is why we are still asking for an opportunity to further engage.
But definitely the Minister and his team has made some efforts in ensuring that information goes down, I have to say that this Parliament has been engaged twice.

One, at the conference room of the new administrative building, and two in Committee room one.

So, thank you very much, Mr Minister.

In addition to that Mr Speaker, we should also not lose sight of the fact that we have to finish with this Bill before the end of this session, which is going to be sometime in May.
Otherwise, we will have to start the novel.

I am sure we don't want to do that.

So Mr Speaker, I want to encourage all of us to do what we could in ensuring that we are part of the sensitization process, not the “Paopa” process, but the sensitization process.

No “Paopa” is too “Paopa”.

But Mr Speaker, this is an important Bill, as I said to you this morning, in the presence of some others.
This Bill will affect the least person from Bonthe where my lady is coming from, not Yaliboya, in Yaliboya everybody is literate.

So, I will not talk about Yaliboya I am presuming.

But Mr Speaker, as a House, we should also support the Minister and his team in ensuring that the sensitization is actualized because if their side is making the effort, and we do not follow the train, we will come back again and say the same things.
So, now that we have had an offer from the Minister on the timeline based on your generous request, please Mr Minister, don't give us the space.

You know, when we are going closer to the holidays as MPs, we start thinking about our constituents and forget about other things, so get us on board.
30 Today, you are having a press conference at 2: o clock, we know that this is not the subject of the press conference, but get your Deputy Minister to mention it in passing so that the press men who are in attendance will start the ball rolling today.

Thank you very much and on that note, I second the motion Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

We have a dilatory motion under S.O [37].


[Question Propose, Put and Agreed to] [Pursuant to Standing Order [37]1, the Bill entitled; The Cybercrime Act 2020 has been HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

adjourned.]

Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I will encourage all Members of Parliament to study this Bill because we should not just leave it in the hands of the Minister and the Ministry.
We should also go to our various constituencies and explain to them and if this Bill is passed into law definitely our constituents are going to be affected.

So I will encourage all of us to study this Bill and explain it to our constituents before the next Sittings.
Mr Speaker, because we are fast approaching the next session, I will still advise we stay within the two weeks period that the Minister has suggested taking into cognizance, May 8th is the state opening and a lot of other activities will be taking place.

And we are very sure this Bill will be committed to the Legislative Committee.

So, we still stick to the two weeks period.


THE SPEAKER: As the House pleases, and I hope when we consider the Bill again in two weeks’ time people will not say they need more time.

No, no.

I am withdrawing the bonus we are sticking to the two weeks’ timeline.

Let me recognize the following; Mr Daniel Kaitibie, Director General NATCOM.

Engineer Gabriel Ndoinjeh.
I am sorry if I mispronounced your name is not one of the easiest of names, National Cyber Security Advisor, Mr Mohamed Jalloh, Acting Director MIC, Lieutenant Colonel FSD Kamara, Staff Officer Grade one Ministry Of Defence, and Brigadier General CF Marah, representing 31 the Chief of Defence Staff, you can see this array of personalities who are here, I mean quite frankly this tells you the importance that people hold of this Bill, and I think this importance should also therefore cascade down to the lowest level in our society.
HON.

HASSAN SESAY: Yes Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: You are rising under what S.O?

HON.

HASSAN A. SESAY: Mr Speaker, it is a point of order.

I just want to reiterate the point you made just now about the withdrawal of the one week bonus.

I want to appeal that you leave the bonus already given in place and my reason for saying this, is that considering the fact that every Member of Parliament will have to engage his/her Constituent on this Bill.
It is a very important one and we need to educate our Constituents adequately before we actually pass it in this House that is why I thought in your wisdom we give the Minister a one week bonus.

I want you to stick by that and not to withdraw the week bonus.

It was out of your own volition that you did it and I want you to stick that way.

I am appealing is operational term here we leave that in place.
Let us get enough time to educate the people, let them understand because when once we pass this Bill in this House definitely we will have no way to tell them that you were not informed.

So, Mr Speaker, I want you to leave that in place so that we have adequate time to inform and educate the people properly on what are the implications if we pass this Bill.
THE SPEAKER: Honourable Member you are a man of great wisdom, but let me assure you what we will do in this instance is not to give the bonus now, let me keep it in the Bank.

Let us allow the two weeks period to be the guiding principle, the guiding policy on this one, if it became necessary for us to extend it I will then remove the one week from the Bank and give.

HON.
HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Honourable Member, the two weeks is the starting of process, but I am very sure we will not complete within the two weeks period but we will have at the expiration of the two weeks period we will invite the Minister again to explain to us and we will comprehend the second reading.

It is very possible that we 32 will commit this Bill to Committee stage, and for sensitisation it is a process.
The Minister has assured us of two weeks but even after the passage of this Bill we will continue to sensitise our Constituents.

So, it is a process and we are not just going to do it in two weeks and we stop, it is a continuous process and I advise everybody to continue sensitising their Constituents.

Thank you.

THE SPEAKER: Yes.

HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Mr Speaker, I hope that we are not going to revitalise this sensitisation to a thing that will go on and on of this very important Legislation?
There must be at some point a timeline after the sensitisation; we must come to a point whereby we must pass this Bill through, to us it is important that we look at it in that angle as well.
I agreed with you that it important for us to sensitise the general public but also we cannot continue to drag it on and on, because I heard some Honourable Members of Parliament suggesting that the Minister has to come here again to give us his programs and after that we may adjourn, if we adjourn again we may come again.

I am just cautioning that we must not drag this thing on and on.

Thank you.

THE SPEAKER: I thank you.

I hope that due note will be taken of the concerns you have express.
Let us conclude today’s deliberations by returning to the Honourable Member, it is now the time for you to come under S.O [23] if you wish.

We have the EDSA people here, are they here?

Where are the EDSA workers?

I think frankly we want the IGP here because the matter we are about to discuss is of great moment to the nation as a whole.

These frequent reports of people vandalising transformers right across the country and it is a matter that is assuming national dimension.
So, we want to return to it and we therefore want to crave your indulgence to bear with us for few minutes so that you can get a feel of the thinking in the House and I am sure it will help in your own work of investigating these issues.

Let me start with the Honourable Member, you started of wanting to raise this matter when we dealt with the Votes and Proceedings but this is the appropriate moment for you to bring your problems to the attention of the House.

33 HON.
33 HON.

HORACE E. VINCENT: Thank you very much Mr Speaker, Honourable Members.

The issue of electricity is of utmost importance to this nation and as a Government through the Ministry of Energy have being making tremendous trend in improving the electricity of this country but of recent time a war has been waged upon transformers across the country.
As a Member of Parliament representing Constituency 111 ranging from Hastings right onto White stone had been a victim of vandalisation taking place in various part of my Constituency.

Hasting has been one community that has been victim wherein two major transformers were damaged and of quit recent a day or two another one was vandalised at Yams Farm.
In this regards, several strides has been made, I want to ask this Honourable House in as much we have the security head here to see how best they can do to help in securing these transformers, as we can see it is a war, if you go through the social media you can see it all over that somebody was caught in the Provinces destroying those transformers and I also want to ask the securities personnel’s.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, one thing I know if there is no buyer then we will the reduction on the thieves.

These people are dealing with scrap metals, copper cables and the rest.

I want to crave the indulgence of the security apparatus to wage a war on these people, because when they destroyed these electricity cables they sell them as coppers, aluminium to these scrap metal buyers.
I also want to ask the Sierra Leone Port Authority to be scanning these containers, because if the scanning system is in full operation they should be able to scanned these containers because they load our metals from the transformers in containers and ship them out of this country, they should be able to identify these containers and track these people down.
I want these issues to be treated as national issue so that we will be able to track these people down and savage the electricity problem in this country.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: I thank the Honourable Member for raising these concerns.
Honourable Members, I don’t know but I think Honourable Ibrahim B. Kargbo and the Honourable Paramount Chief will bear me witness that what these people are looking for is cooper and one thing this incidence reminds me off is once upon a time we had 34 coppers lines running from Lunsar to Port Loko, they were been used to convey electricity and people used to climb up the poles to remove the copper lines and guess what?
It was not for export they used them to make bangles for ladies something as simple as that.

They destroyed a national asset that was conveying a vital commodity which is electricity to household and left both Port Loko and Lunsar in darkness for years on.
So, maybe your target is not the Ports because the quantity of copper that is removable from those transformers is not that huge, they should be looking at other possibilities in their investigations but it is not a new problem, it is an age old problem, it existed before I can assure you, I am quite aware of it because I was then a Member of Parliament raised it right here in this Parliament, but then again looking at our society and the level of understanding would an ordinary person go near a transformer?
Most of these thieving is been done by people who are knowledgeable about electricity and electrical assets and some of them might well be ex-employees of EDSA or similar organisations who know very well what they are looking for and how to get it.

So, the police, ONS and other organisation should narrow down their investigations and focus on these groups of people who are knowledgeable about electricity.
No ordinary person will dear go near electricity, because like me we are all afraid of electricity not so?

So, there are people with specialised knowledge of electricity who are causing these damages, but let me give the Floor to the Chairperson of the Energy Committee.

HON.

KEKURA VANDY: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, I want to thank my colleagues for raising these issues in the Well.
During your own time it was not as rampant as it is now, three months back in my own constituency four employees contract staffs of EDSA were caught doing these same damages.

Let me tell you what is happening now, it has transform from bangous to illegal connections that is why EDSA has a representative here.
The EDSA Act required that when someone is caught in the act of illegal connection he or she should pay not less than Le50Mln, but we have caught people doing illegal connections they only fine them Le500,000.

They have breach the Act so the EDSA itself need to step up as we rightly addressed them the other day.

35 Mr Speaker, for your information they will be before us again on the 6th of April 2021.
As we addressed them the other day if they fail to step up this House will not have any alternative but to declare vote of no confidence of both the head of EGTC and EDSA.

Now copper is a very good conductor of electricity while aluminium is a poorer conductor of electricity so most times people that want to engage in illegal connections they pay people to go and get copper for them to come and connect their Houses illegally without the consent of EDSA so they will have good electricity in their Houses.
In my own case in Bo when the copper is removed they were replaced by aluminium, now the people as I talk to you they are suffering.

The four guys were caught and they are standing trial in Bo magistrate court and I am following the matter on daily basis.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, the issue of copper theft cannot just be attributed to EDSA staffs, we have these training institutions all over the places where they can go for electrical training; like OYC in Bo is one of the institutions most of these guys went to do electrical courses you see them with their screw drivers and plies, those are the people they hire most of the times to go and connect their houses.
So, on this matter Parliament needs to intervene, the security is going to intervene but we want EDSA to come up with a plan for us on how to go about it because the security also need to be guided as well.

This is an expertise job an ordinary man cannot just go and tamper with these cables, so EDSA needs to come up with a strategy and work in collaboration with the security sector.

The previous day I even asked them in this city how many transformers do we have?
EDSA can as well provide securities for those transformers because when one transformer is damaged you spend millions, if you want to prevent that you can provide securities for those transformers and you spend lesser money.
One transformer sometimes is over LE100Mln but if you have securities for those transformers especially for those situated on the ground because most of the transformers are mounted and they are not easily to tampered with but those on the ground let EDSA come up with a strategy on how they are going to address them.
We also want to plead with the law enforcement agencies not only the police but even the Judiciary sometimes 36 when these cases are charged to court a lot delay takes place that is the more reason the Minister of Energy at some point requested for a special court that will be trying the illegal electricity theft because it is on the increase.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, on that note under your supervision thank God the first gentle of the police force is here and the Political Leader of the Internal Security is here, I think with their effort put together EDSA and EGTC we will put under control the issues of electricity theft.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Member.

I think I will take the Honourable Ibrahim B. Kargbo and then maybe I will try to summarize the discussion on this matter.

HON.
HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Mr Speaker, I was going to remind ourselves that this is S.O [23], and it does not need to be a long debate but if that is the end of the S.O [23]… THE SPEAKER: On this one?

HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Yes.

THE SPEAKER: No, it is not because I want to conclude on this particular matter.

HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Okay.

You have not concluded business?

THE SPEAKER: I will like to make a conclusion on that.

HON.
HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Okay because I want to raise the issue about my private Member motion.

THE SPEAKER: Okay please hold on a minute.

HON.

IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: Okay Sir.


THE SPEAKER: On the question of transformers, I suggest that we delegate this matter to the select Committee on Energy for them to make a thorough examination and in the process to invite the security forces, EDSA and other interested parties and 37 prepare a detail report for our consideration here as to how we should go forward on this matter.

HON.

KEKURA VANDY: I will do so Sir.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you.

HON.


IBRAHIM B. KARGBO: About six month ago I presented to the office of the Clerk and other offices of the secretariat a private Member motion of the amendment of our procurement laws in this country in an effort to empower private Sierra Leonean business, but since I presented that motion nothing has come out yet.

I was just wondering in fact that motion is dead or whether this House will continue to think about it.
THE SPEAKER: It is certainly not dead and I will certainly urge the Leader of Government Business that, that motion should see the light of day in this House, the one that was moved by the Honourable Ibrahim B. Kargbo.

I want it definitely on the Order Paper as soon as possible.

HON.
HON.

ABDUL K. KARAMA: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, from 2018 since we came to this House some us has been preview to many Committees and based on what we have found out I want this noble House to know today that Sierra Leoneans are living on a time bomb and diseases that are food generated and water generated are easy to come by in Sierra Leone.
I am saying this because our standard bureau that is supposed to be the standard bearer for most of these things we consume in Sierra Leone is far below the standards.

Mr Speaker, mobility even for the standard bureau to move is a problem, if you call them now and say I went to Saint Mary’s supermarket and discovered expired goods, standard bureau do not even have the mobility to move on their own goods, they have to rely on public transportation.
Mr Minister, the laboratory of standard bureau is nothing to write home about, and worst off the personnel of the standard bureau that manned the entire country from kroobola, Kambia to Kailahun are only 90 personnel including cleaners.

I wonder when 38 last the food we eat that come through the quay have been tested in Sierra Leone, and the worst off what we have done as country we have given out the testing of food, oil and fluid to private company at the quay risking the lives of Sierra Leoneans.
It will interest to note Sierra Leone is the only standard bureau bearer in Sierra Leone that even when they go for sampling for example; they want to do a sample on a water company they don’t have the mobility to come and take the water, they depends on the owner of the water company to brings in a sample to standard bureau.
This is a shame and this is a time bomb for the lives of our people who cannot test the quality of what they eat or drink any more, we don’t even know the litters they are using in those gas station we go to, what they pump into our vehicles we don’t know the measurement of the calibration machine, is so sad.

HON.
HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, what the Honourable Member saying is so serious that it cannot come under S.O [23] I will advise that we move the motion and we invite standard bureau to size the Committee on trade, this is so serious that it should not be dealt with under SO [23].

I believed if that department is not strengthening our lives are not safe.

So, I will advise that we move a motion and we invite them to face the Committee Sir.

HON.

ABDUL K. KAMARA: I agree with my Leader.

HON.


BASHIRU SILIKIE: Because if you begin the discussion like that it will be debatable, I don’t want it to take that trend.

So, I advise that we invite them.

HON.

ABDUL K. KAMARA: I cannot disagree on this, but my point is in as much as we are saying the issues on EDSA that affect us, this one also affect us the more.

When there is no electricity we agree, food stuffs are going to get spoilt and everything, but this one is… HON.
BASHIRU SILIKIE: You are correct Sir.

Is just some procedure before we invite them, you are very correct; we invite the Committee on trade.

HON.

ABDUL K. KAMARA: I agree.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Thank you.

39 THE SPEAKER: Then let us remit this matter to the Committee on Trade and Industry for them to make a thorough examination of it and to report to Parliament.

I remember, in allies to what you have just said this House pass not too long ago a consumer protection Act.
All of us participated in passing that law and that law was specifically design to protect the consumer against the evil that you have just describe.

So, let us remit this matter to the Trade and Industry Committee for them to do a thorough examination and to report.

HON.

ABDUL K. KAMARA: Can we have a time line on that?

THE SPEAKER: Yes.

HON.

ABDUL K. KAMARA: Can we have a timeline, because the Chair person is not here I don’t know who the Deputy is?

THE SPEAKER: Who is the Deputy of that Committee?


HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: Myself.

THE SPEAKER: Okay, shall we say we give you two weeks.

HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: Yes I shall discuss that with the substantive Chair person.

THE SPEAKER: Very well, so you report to the House within two weeks.

HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: We will do that.

THE SPEAKER: On the issue.

HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: Yes Mr Speaker, S.O [23] THE SPEAKER: Thank you.

HON.

Yeah S.O [23] THE SPEAKER: Okay.

HON.


CHARLES O. ABDULAI: Haven the one we just discuss that is really with my Chair person.

40 THE SPEAKER: Okay.

HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: But this one is my submission under SO [23] now.

THE SPEAKER: Very well let go ahead.

HON.


CHARLES O. ABDULAI: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, is quite a while we have been discussing the issue of questioning this Well, a lot of times without numbers this things come up the issue of questioning we get excuses especially from the Director of Legislative affairs.
So, can we have a clear cut on this matter, are we going to have question time in this Well or not, it is overdue, it is far too long any time we have excuses… THE SPEAKER: I cannot agree more question time is well over due, I think on this one I will invite the Clerk, go bring the Clerk let him look at his own administrative procedures, but is long overdue I agree with you.

HON.
HON.

CHARLES O. ABDULAI: I think I can say any more because we all know the important of question especially with our Executive that is the only opportune time one we can have these guys on their toes to response to issues concerning our constituent and constituencies.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Yes Honourable Member.

HON.


BOSTON MUNDA: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, of cause we know for sure that we are still around COVID-19 so we want to duly inform this House that the Committee on Information and Communication we were given a gift from Quee Cell 5000 face masks.

So, I did make necessary also to extend the olive branch to this Committee in the House of Parliament.
So, therefore we have 5000 face masks which will be given to case which was donated to Committee; and to be distributed by Director of Legislative to various MPs.

Thank you very much.

THE SPEAKER: Was that the only gift?

HON.

BOSTON MUNDA: Yes Sir Mr Speaker, it is.

Thank you very much.

THE SPEAKER: No, I was just amplifying the echoes from my left.

41 HON.
41 HON.

BOSTON MUNDA: Of course they normal gift that was expected by Honourable Members was to call them to for their normal cheques but it’s on going, the process is on-going for sure.

THE SPEAKER: Okay thank you very much.

I think we exhausted our S.O [23] how many S.O [23] do you have?

HON.

P.C.
HON.

P.C.

BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Standing Orders S.O [23] THE SPEAKER: Let it be on record that this House is asking the Clerk of the House to expedite the process of question time so that it is actually brought here we actualized the decisions that you took some time ago.

We have been prosponding this matter endlessly I think we should now give it some teeth thank you.

And other SO [23] from the same source, HON.


HORACE E. VINCENT: Mr Speaker, is just to draw the attention of the House initially this morning asking about the timeline for the Committee that was set regarding the very important issue.

Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, Savage Street Bridge felt down as a result of structures that were placed there and weakling the foundation of that bridge that cause the demolition of that bridge.
Mr Speaker, I drew the attention of this Honourable House during the last Sitting that right at Hastings junction the bridge at Rogbangba there are massive structures construction going there on and the water has been banked and is affecting the fabrics of that bridge of those bridges.

I think this Government or this nation will not stand again to have such damages caused.
THE SPEAKER: Again thank you for drawing the attention of the House and we referred this matter to the Committee on Works and they should report within two weeks.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Point of Order Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: My good old friend Point of Order at this stage?

42 HON.

LAHAI MARAH: I don’t think am late Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: Alright go are head.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: What is your Point of Order?

HON.


LAHAI MARAH: Mr Speaker, I just want to raise on Section [119] Sub-Sections [5] of the Constitution.

THE SPEAKER: They audit report?

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Again Mr Speaker.

THE SPEAKER: The debate of the audit report?

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Off course Mr Speaker.

The Constitution is very clear on that.


“That Parliament shall Mr Speaker note the word Shall debate the report of the Auditor General and appoint where necessary in the public interest a Committee to deal with any matters arising there from.” Mr Speaker, a motion was moved by the Honourable Leader of the NGC and seconded by another Honourable Member twice in this Well for us to debate the Auditor General’s report.
Mr Speaker considering some of us that are in the social media reading various articles from social media that has to do with the Auditor General herself that has to do with corruption, I think it is but mandatory for you the Speaker to bring to this Well the Auditor General’s Report for us to debate it.

THE SPEAKER: It has been laid on the Table as you know.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Yes Mr Speaker, laying the Auditor General’s Report that does not mean it has been debated Sir.
THE SPEAKER: It is now the property of Parliament.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: No.

It is the property of Parliament Mr Speaker but the constitution is very much clear.

THE SPEAKER: But I agree with you am agreed with you.

43 HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Mr Speaker, we need to debate Auditor General’s Report and no other report according to the insect what should happened Mr Speaker after debating the Auditor General’s Report issues arising thereon, should be directed say where necessary.
Note the word necessary in the public interest then we talk about Committee which we will have our so in Public Act of Committee.

THE SPEAKER: Are you addressing this issue?

HON.

SILIKIE BASHIRU: Yes Sir.

THE SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, THE SPEAKER: Take your seat.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, I will come again after the Leader.

THE SPEAKER: But you raised a very important matter and he is asking.

HON.
HON.

LAHAI MARAH: I am not yet done, you are up on your feet and I will have to come again after you.

THE SPEAKER: You will come again.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Thank you Sir.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, like you have cited it the document has been laid and is not the property of this Parliament, there was a motive of this Motion and the Business Committee has not been inform by the Clerk, that the motion has been properly presented to the Clerk.
We are still waiting it has the Business of Committee when we received massage from the Clerk then we will take action, but I will assure you we respect the Constitution we are going to stand by it and the document has been laid definitely when the Clerks informs us they Business Committee we definitely take action.

Thank very you.

HON.


LAHAI MARAH: Mr Speaker, we received two Auditor General’s as Report in this Parliament and non of them has been ever debated and I don’t think we even received 44 yet the PAC report on the forth Auditor General’s Report, if the Leader is telling us at this stage that they are yet to receive the report from the Clerk is showing the in effectiveness of the Clerk himself… HON.
BASHIRU SILIKIE: Mr Speaker, that is not what I am saying, there was a notice of motion raised in this Parliament… HON.

LAHAI MARAH: We don’t need a notice of motion to debate on Auditors Generals’ Report is our Constitutional requirement.

In fact we don’t need a notice of motion.

HON.

BASHIRU SILIKIE: There is a notice of motion.

HON.

LAHAI MARAH: They Auditor General’s Report Mr Speaker the Constitution Section [119] and Sub-Section [5] make it clear, we don’t even need the notice from Clerk.
So, for Deputy Leader to tell me that they have yet received… THE SPEAKER: I want both of you to conduct yourselves in a very Parliamentary manner but you will not standing like this in Parliament.

The two of you standing up and addressing each other the way you are doing it is not Parliamentary.

HON.
HON.

LAHAI MARAH: Mr Speaker, I think the Leader is done then I am now responding to the Leaders statement I think you should allow me, I am a senior Member of Parliament you should know that as well Honourable Bashiru, I should been given due respect as well, I am a senior Member of Parliament.

THE SPEAKER: I am sure I have to discountenance your comment; you are speaking from the wrong place.
This is a matter that has been bedevil the proceedings of this House for quite some time, and I will again want to ask that the Leadership of this House hold a meeting with me to take yet another look at the matter or the question of how we implement the provisions of Sub-Section [5] of Section [119].

Again let me express my understanding of that provision.
It is pretty state forward; “it’s mediatory that Parliament shall debate the report of the Auditor General and refer if necessary any matters to a Committee of this Parliament,” not the other way round.

Let me say very clearly and very loudly, the language of the Constitution is very 45 clear, debate first and then we necessary refer the matter to a Committee of this Parliament.
And there is already the Public Account Committee that deals with that matter it doesn’t say the Public Account Committee should proceeds the debate, it doesn’t say that on that one I stand very firmly and very strongly on that issue.

So, I am inviting the Leadership to join me again to look at that particular provision of the Constitution and do our due diligence to it.

Yes Chief.

HON.
Yes Chief.

HON.

P.C BAI KURR KANAGBARO SANKA III: Yes Mr Speaker, when the President came to power he emphasized corruption, during the campaign he emphasized corruption and some of us have stood there before and said there is corruption in the country.
I and your good friend Honourable T. Conteh first raised the motion here in Parliament before you to debate the 2018 it was unanimously passed up till now it has not been debated, 2019 is here and is not yet debated, the COVID-19 report is here is not yet debated.

You are standing on a weak ground Mr Speaker, I am sorry you see sooner or later the 2020 Auditor General’s Report will be here again.

So, if you say I am sorry the Leadership telling us is a motion this doesn’t required a motion.
We raise the motion just to bring awareness so the Leadership and you could have brought in the 2018 Auditor General’s Report.

It is not a motion no Mr Joe you are wrong, you said new direction, is the new direction going backward, and is that what you are saying?
Are you going back to the same old corrupt method of doing things is that the new direction, we supported you to make it a new direction and to make it a useful thing so that must of this people who are responsible for these votes are… I am not Member of the SLPP.

It is not a political issue when we talk of Audit report, it is a non-political.
If I were given the point is for me to emphasize the President role are important in trying to stop corruption, but now you are pollicising the thing, you are making it as if it is meant for SLPP is not for SLPP.

We should support it because most of the Civil Servant were not appointed by the SLPP Government they were there, so we should point them out.
Mr Speaker, Honourable Members, for me this is the last time I am going to even open my big mouth and say about it again because I am seeing people trying to endorse corruption, people trying to say it is a pay yourself movement, it is no.

Thank you.

46 THE SPEAKER: I thank I will the discussion to a close I have said on this particular issue I will inviting the Leadership of the House to join me at the earliest opportunity to look at this issue again.
But those who have raised the issue I believe are quite right.

The language of the Constitution is our guide and in that regard we should do due diligence and be faithful to the oath that we all took when we became Members of Parliament here.

We should be in the vanguard of the fight against corruption, there are no two ways about it the public expect this House to perform that sacred duty on their behalf, we cannot sack our responsibility.

With that is about time we take adjournment.


ANNOUNCEMENT THE SPEAKER: Honourable Members, thank you.

We stand adjourned to Tuesday 23rd of March, 2021.

[The House rose at 1: pm and was adjourned to Tuesday, 23rd March, 2021 10: pm] 47