Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698749837507.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume II No.

14 Saturday 13th November, 1965 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENT ATJ VES) OFFICIAL REPORT SECOND SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA CONTENTS ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 2453) MOTION- The Development (Supplementary) (No.
2) Estimates, 1965 Committee- Heads 146, 147, 177, 198 and 199 [Col. 2481] BILL- The Robber Research Institute of Malaya Bill [Col. 2498) ADJOURNMENT OF mE HOUSE (Motion) [Col. 2523) Dl-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH IBRAHIM BIN JOHARI, P.J.S,, PFNGUASA IOHOR BAHRU 1966 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Second Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat Saturd,ay, 13th November, 1965 The House met at Ten o'clock.

a.m.

PRESENT: ....
a.m.

PRESENT: ....

The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YUSUF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, s.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara Perak.

the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PuTRA 'AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN Srnw SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).
the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' v. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sung~i Siput).

the Minister of Transport.

DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJr JUBIR, P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).

the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN, (Kuala Pilah).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJl SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).
the Minister for Local Go:vemment and Housing, ENCHE' KH,AW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).

the Minister for Sarawak.

Affairs, DATO'.

TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., p .D.K.

(Sarawak).

the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

the Minister of Information.

and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat).

the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, TuAN HAn MOHAMED GHAZALI .BIN HAn JAWI (Ulu Perak).
the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN ' ' BIN YA'KUB (Sarawak).

· ' 2447 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2448 The Honourable the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh).

the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, J.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K.

(Trengganu Tengah).

the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Sepang).

the Assistant Minister of Finance, DR NG KAM PoH, J.P. (Telok Anson).
the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health.

ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' LEE SAN CnooN, K.M.N.

(Segamat Selatan).

the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' Au BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan).

the Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister, ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara).

ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N., (Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N.


(Melaka Selatan).

WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T.

(Kuala Trengganu Utara).

WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HussIN (Lipis).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLER, A.M.N., s.M.J., P.I.s.

(Segamat Utara).

ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan Hilir).


ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N., (Muar Utara).

TUAN HAn AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara).

CHE' AnBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

O.K.K.

DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

PENGARAH BANYANG ANAJC JANTING, P.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN, A.B.S (Sarawak).

ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah).


ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta).

ENCHE' D. A. DAGO ANAK RANDEN alias DAGOK ANAK RANDAN (Sarawak).

ENCHE' c. v. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar).

TUAN SYED EsA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., s.M.J., P.1.s.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).

2449 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2450 The Honourable DATIN HAJJAH FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahru Timor).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).

ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).


El<tcHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

fuAN HAJI HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Kapar).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara) ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

WAN HASSAN BIN w AN DAUD (Tumpat).

ENCHE' STANLEY Ho NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN To' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N.

(Raub).

DATO' HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, D.P.M.P., A.M.N., P.J.K.


(Parit) TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

ENCHE' IKHW AN ZAINI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALDAR, P.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).

PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C., A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' THOMAS KAN.A (Sarawak).

ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).


DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S.

(Sarawak).

DR LIM CHONG Eu (Tanjong).

ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG, P.J.K.

(Alor Star).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' JOSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

DATO' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K.

(Pasir Puteh).

ORANG TuA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut).


ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (J elebu-J em pol).

ENCHE' MOHD.

TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, s.M.s., P.J.K.

(Kuala Langat).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YusoF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman).

TUAN HAJI MoKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir).

· TuAN HAn MUHAMMAD Su'AuT BIN HAn MuHD.

TAHIR, A.B.s.

(Sarawak).


· 2451 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2452 The Honourable DATO' HAJI MusTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.s., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bemam).

ENCHE' MusTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah).

DATO' NIK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., S.J.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P., DATO' SRI SETIA RAJA (Kata Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah).

ENCHE' ONG KEE HUI (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak).

TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N.

(Johar Bahru Barat).

ENCHE' RAMU BIN OMAR (Krian Darat).


TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).

RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA'AMOR, P.J.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor) ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S.

(Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SNAWI BIN ISMAIL, P.J.K.

(Seberang Selatan).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN Joo (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SOH AH TECK (Batu Pahat).

ENCHE' SULEIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun).

PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sa bah).

ENCHE' TAJUDDIN BIN Au, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).


ENCHE' TAI KUAN y ANG (Kulim Bandar Bharu).

DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang).

ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara).

ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TzE (Sarawak).

TuAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB, P.J.K.

(Langat).


ABSENT: The Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, TuN HAJJ ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).

the Minister of Education, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).

the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN, (Kata Star Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K.

(Kuantan).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).
(Krian Laut).

DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

Y.A.M.

TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI ALMARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T.

(Rawang).

2453 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2454 The Honourable DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, s.M,J.

(Muar Selatan).

ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak).

ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK T ANGKUN (Sarawak).

DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, A.M.N (Jerai).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan).


ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan).

DATO' KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU .ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN Srnw (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN (Sabah).

DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan).

DATO' DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K.

(Kuala Kangsar).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N.

(Sungai Patani).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ENCHE' QuEK KAI DONG, J,P.


(Seremban Timor).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

DATO' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM, D.P.M.P., P.M.P., J.P. (Menglembu).

ENCHE' Smw LOONG HIN, P.J.K.

(Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Mefaka).

ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

PRAYERS (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS BELIA MEMASOKI RANCHANGAN F.L.D.A.

1.
1.

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin (Lipis) bertanya kapada Menteri Pem bangunan Negara dan Luar Bandar ada-kah beliau sedar sa-bahagian besar pemuda2 di-tanah ini kehidupan-nya bertanggong kapada chuchok tanam, ada-kah Kerajaan berhajat hendak mengg1,tlakkan mereka itu dengan mengambil bahagian dalam ranchangan tanah dengan mengadakan Ranchangan (F.L.D.A.)

untok orang2 yang mempunyai kelamin, tetapi ran changan ini khas untok belia2 sahaja.

The Asst.
The Asst.

Minister of National and Rural Development (Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Kerajaan sedia sahaja menimbangkan ayer kita dan membinchangkan dengan Kera perkara2 membuka jaan2 Negeri, ranchangan2 tanah untok belia2 atau pun soal memasokkan mereka ka dalam tanah Kerajaan yang ada sekarang ini jika mereka ingin hendak mengambil bahagian.
ranchangan2 Enche' Hussein bin To' Muda Hassan (Raub): · Tidak-kah Yang Berhormat Menteri itu sedar satu daripada sharat hendak masok tanah Kerajaan itu mesthlah orang itu ber kelamin?

Di-harap kalau sa-kira-nya dapat, tolong potong perkataan kelamin itu, masokkan pemuda2?

ranchangan Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita sedar perkara itu, tetapi ini ada-lah satu ranchangan baharu yang boleh nanti di-timbangkan oleh Kerajaan sendiri.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, bila-kah agak-nya ranchangan yang baharu di-ishtiharkan itu di-mulakan?

2455 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2456 Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita akan menerima laporan daripada Negeri2 dahulu jika ada.

Kalau tidak, ta' ada di-buat.


Dato' Nik Ahmad Kamil (Kota Bham Hilir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, jika ranchangan ini ranchangan lama dan di-hadkan kapada orang berke tidak-kah boleh Kementerian lamin, mengadakan ranchangan baharu untok boleh di-masokkan pemuda2 kita yang belum berkelamin lagi.

Encbe' Sulaiman bin Bolon: ltu~lah perkara-nya, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, yang hendak di·timbangkan kerana ranchangan tanah ini ia-lah tanggong jawab Kerajaan.

Negeri .

melainkan F.L.D.A.


Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah (Hilir Perak): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ranchangan tanah ia-lah ranchangan tetapi memasokkan orang2 negeri, ka-dalam ranchangan baharu itu ia-lah bersangkut dengan Kementerian ini.

Jadi yang di-nyatakan di-sini ia-lah berkenaan dengan belia, bukan ber kenaan dengan tanah.

Belia itu, ada kah mempunyai kehendak kapada dasar Kerajaan hendak meniasokkan belia yang belum berkahwin itu ka dalam ranchangan tanah yang hendak di-buat.
Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kita belum lagi men dapat ranchangan daripada belia itu sendiri.

Jadi bagaimana kita hendak menimbangkan soal ini.

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Bunin: Soalan tambahan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-kah Menteri Yang Berhormat sedar pada Budget meeting tahun yang lepas perkara ini telah di-kemukakan?

Dan jawapan Menteri yang berkenaan .. perkara ini akan di-timbangkan.

Sa-takat mana-k;ah timbangan itu dapat di-lakukan?


Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, belum ada apa2 per mohonan daripada belia, Tuan Yang di-Pertua.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah tambahan, Tuan ia-itu Kerajaan (Bachok): Soalan di-Pertua, Yang bersedia menimbangkan permintaan daripada pehak belia ia-itu daripada pehak orang yang belum kahwin lagi hendak masok di-dalam ranchangan yang baharu ini.
Orang2 _yang berhak · masok dalam tanah baharu atau ran changan baharu itu ia-Iah manusia, tidak di-tentukan laki2 atau perempuan.

ini Jadi ada-kah Kementerian kita menyediakan dua ranchangan ia-itu satu ranchangan khas belia laki2 dan satu ranchangan lagi khas untok belia dan wanita sahaja yang belum kahwin.

Enche' · Salaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kami belum ada apa2 permintaan daripada belia sendiri.

bahkan belum ada apa2 ranchangan daripada Kementerian Belia sendiri.
Kalau ada permintaan sa-umpama ini boleh-lah kedua2 Kementerian ini menimbangkan-nya.

Sekarang ini apa yang kita hendak soalkan kerana per- .

mohonan dan permintaan belum ada.

Enche' Ranili bin Omar (Krian Darat): Soalan tambahan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, apa kata Yang Berhormat Menteri Belia-dapat-kah Yang Ber hormat kerjasama dengan Menteri yang berkenaan berhubong dengan itu.

The Asst.
The Asst.

Minister of Culture, Y oath and Sports (Engko Muhsein bin Abdul K.adir):Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa-benar nya perkara ini telah di-beri jawapan pada petang sa-malam ia-itu pertanyan Yang Berhormat daripada Johor, yang pehak Kementerian atau pun Kerajaan mema.ng ada ranchangan, sa-bagai per mulaan, yang di-namakan Angkatan Belia Pelupor.

Dan darioada permulaan akan ini-lah boleh di-timbangkan ranchangan yang lagi saperti ladang2 belia dan lain2 lagi pada masa akan datang.
lebeh besar SHARIKAT2 KERJASAMA MENANAM MODAL DALAM BANK BUMIPUTERA 2.

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hmsin bertanya kapada Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama ada-kah beliau mempunyai ranchangan supaya Sharikat2 Kerjasama dan Pinjam Meminjam Bumiputera menanam modal-nya di-dalam Bank Bumiputera 2457 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2458 yang di-tubohkan baharu2 ini; kalau tiada, apa-kah sebab2-nya maka lang kah saperti itu tidak di-ranchangkan.
Menteri Pertanian dan Sharikat Kerjasama (Tuan Raji Mohamed Ghazali bin Raji Jawi): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, Sharikat2 Kerjasama ada-lah di-benarkan dan bebas menanam modal dalam mana2 Bank Sharikat2 Kerjasama atau pertubohan2 yang di luluskan di-bawa:h Undang2 Sharikat2 Kerjasama No.

33/ 1948.
33/ 1948.

Keputusan menyimpan atau menanam modal di dalam Bank terpulang kapada Sharikat Kerjasama2 sendiri dan Kementerian Pertanian dan Sha rikat Kerjasama akan menggalakkan Sharikat2 Kerjasama membeli saham di-dalam Bank Bumiputera.

itu ada-lah Enche' Abdul Razak bin Raji Russin: Soal tambahan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, apa yang saya maksudkan, ada-kah Tuan Yang Kementerian Pertanian dan Sharikat ranchangan, Kerjasama mempunyai bukan sahaja menggalakkan tetapi memestikan.

Terima kaseh.
Terima kaseh.

di-Pertua, mana2 Bank.

Ini bererti bahawa kedu dokan Sharikat itu ia-lah kedudokan yang lama juga, tidak ada ranchangan daripada Kementerian dengan sebab tidak ada kuasa.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sudut yang saya hendak bertanya ia lah bukan-kah di-dalam pin d a an Undang2 bagi Sharikat2 Kerjasama ini akan di-tentukan peratus-nya daripada untong yang boleh di-bahagi2kan kapada Ahli2 Sharikat itu dan yang lebeh itu di-arahkan kapada kerja2 yang lain, erti-nya membolehkan sa itu bahagian daripada keuntongan di-salorkan ka-tempat2 yang tertentu.
Jadi sudut-nya ia-lah tidak boleh-kah Kementerian ini memasokkan satu fasal di-dalam Pembahagian Untong (Net Profit) itu supaya menjadi satu amalan yang tulin dan di-masokkan sa-bagai modal di-dalam Bank Bumiputera.

Tuan Raji Mohamed Ghazali bin Raji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya fikir kita memberi kebebasan itu kapada Sha rikat2 Kerjasama itu sendiri membuat keputusan-nya.
lebeh waras ada-lah Tuan Raji Mohamed Ghazali bin Raji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sa bagaimana Ahli Yang Berhormat itu mengetahui ia-itu langkah2 yang di jalankan oleh Sharikat2 Kerjasama · ada-lah di-jalankan mengikut keputusan meshuarat Sharikat2 itu sendiri.

Jadi saya rasa ada-lah tidak waras kalau sa-kira-nya pehak Kementerian me maksa semua Sharikat2 Kerjasama mesti membeli saham2 itu.
Apa yang dapat di-jalankan oleh Kementerian ia lah memberi galakan atau ara:han dan arahan itu akan di-timbangkan oleh Jawatan-kuasa Sharikat Kerjasama dan saya atau, boleh jadi, semua Sharikat2 Kerjasama akan menanam modal mereka di dalam Bank Bumiputera itu kelak.

kebanyakan perchaya Enche' Abo Bakar bin Ramzah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soal tambahan.
Saya dapat faham daripada jawapan Yang Berhormat Menteri bahawa Kementerian-nya tidak mempunyai sa barang kuasa untok memestikan sa sebuah sharikat itu supaya menanam modal di-dalam Bank Bumiputera atau CRARAMENGAYERKAN DI-PA YA KANGSA, JERANTUT 3.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Raji bertanya kapada Menteri Russin Pertanian dan Sharik:at Kerjasama ada-kah beliau sedar chara2 mengayer sawah dengan menggunakan kan system di-Paya Kangsa, pumping tidak boleh Jerantut, sekarang mengayerkan sa-penoh-nya, sawah apatah lagi hendak membuka tanah2 sawah dalam kawasan itu yang belum di-buka sa-luas 400 ekar lagi; dan jika sedar, ada-kah Kerajaan berchadang hendak mengadakan chara2 lain untok tanah2 mengayerkan sawah supaya yang belum di-buka itu dapat di-jadi kan sawah membuat ampangan ayer di-Sungai Salan, mithal-nya, supaya pasti akan kejayaan-nya.
ini Tuan Raji Mohamed Ghazali bin Raji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, kesulitan taliayer di-Paya Kangsa itu bukan-lah di-sebabkan oleh keadaan mengepam-nya, akan tetapi di-sebab kan oleh keadaan tanah yang berongga 2459 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2460 dalam kawasan yang tersebut.

Oleh yang demikian sekatan ayer yang lebeh banyak di-kehendaki bagi mengayer tiap2 sa-ekar sawah di-dalam kan kawasan itu daripada kawasan2 lain di-dalam negeri ini.
Sungai Salan yang di-kaitkan oleh Yang Berhormat telah di-siasat dengan teliti oleh Bahagian Parit dan Taliayer ini.

Malang-nya ayer Kementerian itu sangat2-lah yang ada di-Sungai tidak menchukupi bagi mengayerkan kawasan Paya Kangsa bila di-beri per timbangan atas kehilangan ayer yang tersangat banyak dari se.bab keadaan tanah yang berongga tempat ayer itu lalu.
Parit terusan besar telah pun di-lapiskan dengan kepingan2 jenis pelastik untok · mengurangkan ayer2 meresap dan ada-lah nyata bahawa bekalan ayer bagi masa akan datang akan menjadi baik sadikit.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin: Soalan tambahan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, ada-kah Menteri Yang Berhormat sedar bahawa perbelanjaan membuat pumping system itu mem bekalkan perbelanjaan, hingga di jalankan pumping system ini, memakan lebeh daripada $80,000 sa-tahun, pada hal yang boleh di-usahakan ia-lah 400 ekar, hitong panjang sa-tahun padi yang boleh di-ambil daripada paya itu pada sa-ekar ia-lah 400 gantang, jadi berma'ana 160,000 gantang padi sahaja yang boleh di-keluarkan sa-tahun.
Jika duit $80,000 itu di-beli dengan padi biasa, kita boleh dapat 162,000 gantang.

Jadi sekarang ini tenaga yang di-guna kan oleh petani2 di-kawasan Paya Kangsa itu tidak memberi kebajikan yang boleh menambahkan hasil yang lebeh banyak oleh wang itu-boleh di belikan sahaja sudah dapat sa-banyak 160,000 gantang.

Tuan Haji Mohamed GhazaU bin Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, itu bukan soalan tetapi sa-bagai kenyataan sahaja.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: tambahan, Tuan Yang di Soalan Pertua, mengikut jawapan yang di-beri oleh Menteri kita, bahawa sa-telah di-adakan satu penyiasatan di-dapati sebab2 yang memayahkan saJoran2 ayer kawasan itu ia-lah akibat daripada tanah2 itu berongga.

Jadi erti-nya ayer itu meresap masok ka-situ.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya perchaya-lah sebab Menteri kita Yang Berhormat ini pakar di-dalam hal2 taliayer kerana dahulu pun dia bekerja sa-bagai Overseer jadi masaalah-nya, Tuari Taliayer, Yang di-Pertua, ia-itu dengan siasatan itu ada-kah Yang Berhormat Menteri kita ini memerentahkan supaya di siasat dari segi taliayer sahaja atau pun di-perentah sama supaya dalam laporan itu di-sebutkan bahawa kawasan yang 400 ekar ini merupakan satu economic holding, itu yang saya hendak tahu.
Tuan Haji Mohamed Ghazali bin Haji Jawi: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, itu ada-lah soal yang berlainan daripada yang asal.

Kalau sa-kira-nya hendak di-buat, kena-lah memberi kenyataan dari awal.

TURNOVER TAX-RELIEF FOR SMALL TRADERS IN SARAWAK 4.

Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak) asks the Minister of Finance whether he is aware of the hardship caused to a large number of small in Sarawak by the turnover tax, and if so, whether he would consider its total abolition or other measures to relieve this hardship.
traders The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, as I stated when introducing the turnover tax last year, and I confirmed this on subsequent occasions, cases of hardship resulting from the impact of turnover tax will be studied carefully and will be borne in mind when considering the appropriate form of development of this tax.
Enche' Ong Kee Hui: Mr Speaker, Sir, would the Minister then favourably consider, on the basis of the principle of double taxation, if these traders are now paying trade licence fees to the State, that some measure where a deduction of such tax payable might be made, assuming that the turnover tax is still maintained?
2461 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2462 Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, as I stated in reply to two questions raised earlier this week, the other tax mentioned by the Honourable Member is really a matter for the State Govern ment to decide and there have been cases where traders or businessmen have to pay taxes both to the Central and State Governments.

indeed, revolt Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): Mr Speaker, Sir, is the Minister aware of the widespread dissatisfaction, agitation in the M.C.A.
and, against the iniquitous turnover tax?

Is the Minister aware that in my own profession, this is the most iniquitous tax and, if I may, I would like to illustrate it to the Minister.

If I send a case to the General Hospital for con sultation and the Specialist charges the patient $25.00 by etiquette, the Con sultant does not charge the patient directly-he bills me $25.00 and I don't charge the patient anything more than $25.00.

Consequently, in my turnover, there is this $25.00.
I do not get a cent out of it, Mr Speaker, Sir, but the iniquitous turnover tax penalises me for doing something good for my patient.

Is the Minister aware of these iniquities and these revolts, which may be widespread, against this turnover tax?

Encbe' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, I cannot recall any tax which is welcomed by anybody in this world (Laughter).
Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification: we are aware that most taxes are inevitable and we have to do with them, but this is an iniquitous tax which, I do know, the sooner the Government repeals it the better, or else the people of Rahang in Seremban will decide the Government.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

for Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Soalan tambahan, Tuan Yang di Pertua, ia-itu saya hendak bertanya tax yang kena ini bukan pada saya sa-bagaimana yang kena pada Ahli daripada Batu itu, tetapi ia~lah apa sungutan2 yang di-alami di-Sarawak oleh Pedagang2 kechil, sudut tertentu di-alami juga di-tempatl Jain termasok lah di-kawasan saya di-Bachok.
Jadi saya hendak bertanya kapada Menteri Kewangan, ketika menimbang perkara2 yang patut di-timbangkan bagi meng: hapuskan turnover tax bagi kapada orang yang ini, boleh-kah Menteri kita ini rnemberi satu kerian atau pun satu kaedah bahawa kalau perkara ini jadi bagini rnaka dia boleh di-kechualikan daripada tax jenis ini.

Jadi kalau Menteri kita boleh memberi kaedah yang sa-macharn ini saya ber sedia-lah hendak menolong dalam kawasan saya itu melegakan sungutan itu, jadi saya minta kapada Menteri.
Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Sir, we have already allowed exemp tions in cases of hardship and I cannot think of any other cases which require further consideration.

However, if the Honourable Member can put up specific cases to the Department of Inland Revenue, we can certainly see what can be done.

PEMBENAAN RUMAH2 DI-DALAM DAERAH KA WALAN DI-JALAN KUCHING/SIMANGGANG, SARAWAK 5.
Enche' Ong Kee Hui bertanya kapada Menteri Pembangunan Negara dan Luar Bandar mengapa pekerjaan membena rumah2 di-dalam Daerah Kawalan di-Jalan Kuching/Simang gang, Sarawak, di-beri kapada sa-orang kontrekter dengan tiada memanggil tender2 dan nyatakan apa-kah ke layakan istimewa kontrekter ini, jika ada, dan sama-ada beliau sedar bahawa sa-telah mendapat kontrekter kontrek itu membahagi2kan pula kontrek pekerjaan itu kapada orang lain.
ini Enche' Sulaiman bin Bolon: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, perjanjian membuat rumah2 peserta dalam kawasan gerakan ia-lah di-antara peserta2 hammer sendiri dengan kontrekter2 yang ber· kenaan.

Chara yang di-lakukan di-sini ia-lah di-beri bantuan $500 untok mendirikan rumah nya, maka kapada peserta itu sendiri membuat urusan bersendirian untok pembenaan rumah mereka itu.

terpulang-lah sa-saorang peserta 2463 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2464 ABOLITION OF IMPORT RESTRICTIONS OR QUOTAS ON COMMODITIES ON COMMON MARKET LIST 6.
Enche' Tan Tsak Yu (Sarawak) asks the Minister of Commerce and Industry to state whether the Central Government will consider abolishing the import restrictions or quotas on commodities which are on the Common Market List.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr Speaker, Sir, import restrictions on most of the Common Market Item List have already been removed on the 9th of left are only October.

What are temporary.
What are temporary.

the commodities on the other Divisions Enche' Tan Tsak Yu: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that at present all the quota applications are sent to Kuching for approval.

this centralisa tion of procedure has caused great hardships to the business community in in Sarawak because, in most cases, the applicants have to wait for a considerable period of time before approval is given to them.
Will the Minister consider ways and means to improve the situation there, if he considers that this cannot be abolished?

Dr Lim Swee Aon: The system is every day.

Sir.

improved being (Laughter).

STEPS TO ENSURE NO SHORTAGE OF COMMODITIES AFFECTED BY THE COMMON MARKET 7.
Enche' Tan Tsak Yu asks the Minister of Commerce and Industry to state whether the Central Government will consider taking steps to ensure that there will be no shortage of supply of commodities which are affected by the Common the Market, considering the fact that there is very little trade relation between Sarawak and Malaya at present.

introduction of Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government has already taken steps to increase the trading relation ship between Sabah, Sarawak and the Mainland.
Enche' Tan Tsak Yu: Sir, what steps have the Minister taken to ensure the adequacy of supply to the Borneo States?

to Dr Lim Swee Aun: The steps to be taken to reduce the shortage in the supply of goods the Borneo territories, as the Honourable Member himself knows, have to be taken by the trading community.
We have already sent a trade mission to Kuching in the State of Sarawak on the 9th where our manufacturers and our exporters would have the opportunity to have closer understandings and be able to solve the problem of trans portation of orders and supply of to goods Sarawak and Sabah.
In fact, yesterday, the Honourable Member had the opportunity to attend a meeting sponsored by the Government, where of members Commerce the manufacturing associations and also the shippers in this country met to discuss this problem of how to improve the supply of goods to the Sarawak State.

the Chambers and members of from mainland Malaysia of STRIKE BY WORKERS OF CHIP SENG & Co. 8.
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair (Bungsar) asks the Minister of Labour to give the reasons for the recent strike of the workers of Chip Seng & Co. and to state what action his Ministry has taken in order to secure the reinstatement of dismissed employees and the settle ment of the dispute.

suspend The Minister of Labour (Enche' V. Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir.
the strike by workers of Chip Seng & Co. is due to various causes, among which was the action by the company to dismiss five workers and alleged to another misconduct.

The dispute over the dismissal and suspension was reported to me by the Company on 21st September, 1965 under the Essential Arbitration in Essential Services Regulations, 1965, and it has now been referred for settlement to the Industrial Arbitration Tribunal.
for 2465 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2466 Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: May I enquire, Sir, when exactly was the reference to the Industrial Arbitration Tribunal made?

Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, as I said just now, the report was made to me by the 21st the Company on September, 1965, and reference to the in Tribunal was made some October.
time Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, is the Minister aware that one of the causes of this strike, as indeed one of the main causes of most strikes in this country, is either non-recognition of a union or dismissal of officers of the union under the guise of inefficiency, insubordination and the like?

If so, can the Minister enlighten this House on what steps does his Ministry propose to take to tell employers, all and sundry, that the workers in this country will not tolerate any such victimisation?
Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the causes of disputes arising out of non-recogni tion of unions as well as dismissals.

The employers have a different version to say just as the workers have their side of the version.

Sir, in this parti cular dispute, as I have said, reference has been made to the Tribunal and we will wait for the outcome.
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: May I just ask what are the terms of reference of the Industrial Arbitration Tribunal in respect of this particular dispute?

Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, that is a separate question.

However, I must say that both sides have given their versions and the Tribunal is looking into them.

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps, the Honourable Minister has misunderstood me.
What I would like to know is what are the points which have been referred to the Arbitration Tribunal-is it the refusal of the employers to reinstate the five dismissed workers and the suspension of one?

I take it that that is what is before the Court.

lift to Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Yes, Sir.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable Minister ·has given us one point that it has been referred to the Arbitration Tribunal.
Can the Honourable Minister please enlighten this House on the other points whether they are from the employers' or from the workers' side that have been the Arbitration to Tribunal?

referred the Company for Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, as I have just said, the request was made reference of by settlement of this dispute; and I have also said that both sides have given their versions.

In fact, the union had nine items for inclusion.

to reconsider RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION TO GOVERNMENT PENSIONERS 9.
Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the Prime Minister whether the Govern ment will agree its attitude on the subject of restoration of full pension for all those pensioners for a commuted who had opted pension gratuity, the in view of fact that they had signed the option papers in the belief that full pension would be restored to them after the tenth year of their retirement; and also in consideration of the fact that the Government of Ceylon in 1964, had restored full pension for all pensioners after the 11th year.
I wonder The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker.

the Honourable if Sir, Member would mind very much if I make a request to you for permission to take Questions No.

9 and No.

13, as I have a very important engagement in a few minutes' time and as the next question, I the Honourable Member too.

think comes from Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, Question No.

13 comes from the Honourable Member for Tan jong.

Mr Speaker: Would you mind?

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: No, I don't mind.


The Prime Minister: In respect of this question No.

9, Sir, the position 2467 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2468 bas not materially changed since the question was raised by the Honourable Member in the last adjournment speech he made .in the May/June se;ssion of this House.

The matter then was regarded as subjudice because it was a subj_ect matter for the Court, but today ·the matter has gone to a Court of Appeal and it is still subjudice for that matter.
So, I think it would be very difficult for me te enlighten the Honourable Member more than what l have said last time.

the Prime Minister LEGAL · AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEFINl'flON OF "BUMIPUTERA" 13.

Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong) asks to state legal and con· whether .. there stitutional definition of term the "BUMIPUTERA", and whether child· ren of Malaysian citizens who were born after August 31st, 1963, will also be entitled rights of BUMIPUTERA.
to all is a the The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, the term "Bumiputera" for that matter has no legal meaning except in so far as to denote the natives of the mainland of Malaya and the natives of the Borneo States; or, in other words, the indigenous people of Malaya such as the Malays, the aborigines and the people of Sabah and Sarawak such as the Iban, the Muruts, the Melanaus and all these other people, who are indigenous to these territories.
Since it has no legal meaning, anyone is entitled to call himself "bumiputera" -for that mat~r.
I would say that even an Eurasian of Portuguese descent could very well call himself "bumiputera" of this country; or, for that matter again, the Eu.rasians, .who are of British descent; so long as they do not refer to Britain as their home, and again for that matter, those Chinese and Indians who have ·been 'Born here for several generations, are ·entitled to call them· selves "bumiputera" so long as they do not idescribe themselves as Chinese, or call themselves as Chinese, and so it foJlows, except of course, under Section 153 of the Constitution, it proVides the Yang di-Pertuan Agong .
shall safeguard the position of that the Malays and the .

natives of the Borneo States, that means Sabah and Sarawak.

Dr. Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, arising .

out the · reply made by the Honourable Prime Minister, I must say that we are very thankful for this very long reply, which is one of the replies, which covers a lot.

I have two questions further to ask and I think I had better ask them one by one.

The Honourable Prime Minister referred to the Chinese of several generations.
I am not concerned over what has happened in the past, but I am con cerned now with people who are now qualified to be Malaysians-Chinese or otherwise, Indians, Malays and so on as they are Malaysians-will their children "bumiputera"?

We are starting off with a new nation: will their ·children be "butniputeras"?

·qualify as The Prime Minister: They are, under the law, all Malaysians, but "bumiputera", is a word that goes deeper than the word "Malaysian".
"Malaysian" in effect, means that a person is not entitled to own up to any country as his home of origin and, as I said just now, the Chinese or the Indians who so wish to call themselves as "bumiputera" are welcomed to do so.

In fact, it would· be a very good thing if they would do that.

However, there are these, admittedly, among· the Chinese, among the Indians, who are still proud of the fact .
that they are Chinese and Indians, because of the long tradition connected with their race but, as I said, I am here to try and build up unity among the people of this country and I would be one who would welcome with both hands any desire .

on the part of these Malaysians to "bumiputera" (Applause), bµt there must, of course, be this distinction as is provided under Article 153, in t:hat these people, the indigenous natives of Malaysia people, are less these other able Malaysians.

So, it.
So, it.

is micessary, for some time to come ... that the provisions of Article 153 must be upheld and respected.

less advanced and to compete with themselves call the 2469 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2470 Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan tam bahan: mengapa-kah pehak Perdana Menteri tidak menjawab satu soalan yang bertulis daripada sa-orang Ahli PAS yang meminta ta'rif bumiputera ini; ada-kah soalan itu tidak sampai atau pun Perdana Menteri kita tidak mahu menjawab sa-chara bertulis?
The Prime Minister: Soalan bertulis dengan soalan jawab mulut ini beratus, jadi saya lupa barangkali harus juga benda ini tertinggal.

Tetapi saya boleh jawab, hal bumiputera ini bukan-lah · ta'rif itu sa-bagaimana kita Melayu ia-lah sa-orang yang berugama Islam dan berbahasa Melayu.

Ta'rif bagi orang2 native Borneo dan Sarawak ia-lah sa-orang; saya pun lupa apa (Ketawa).

Ma'ana-nya dia orang negeri lain melainkan Sarawak dan Borneo sahaja, itu yang saya ingat.
Tetapi dengan sebab saya tidak ada notice, saya lupa hendak sebutkan dengan tepat-nya ta'rif native Borneo dan Sarawak.

Enche' Abo Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan tambahan sadikit sahaja lagi.

Saya berpuas hati dengan perchakal>an Perdana Menteri itu tetapi saya hendak tahu mengapa soalan itu tidak di-jawab, pada hal soal itu bertulis dalam satu kertas.

Soalan2 yang tetapi soalan itu tidak di-jawab, itu yang saya tanya.

Tentang sharahan itu falsafah macham itu saya tahu-lah.
lain berjawab The Prime Minister: Yang sa-benar nya saya tidak teringat ada menerima nya, barangkali Ahli Yang Berhormat menghantar lambat sadikit; saya ingat bagitu, jika tidak saya akan jawab.

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, I did say that I have another supplementary question arising out of the explanation made by the Honour able Prime Minister.
If I am correct, Sir, one would say that the word "Malaysian" is all embracing and the word "bumiputera" is all embracing also, the word "Malaysian" covers a wider range, the word "bumiputera" covers a deeper but where as range.

I hope that this is the inter pretation I get.

If that is the case, I wonder whether the Honourable Prime Minister can elucidate this fact.

We all know that when a person becomes a Malaysian, he automatically abjures his allegiance to any other country.
In fact, every Malaysian has only one country.

That I think is an almost important proviso of the Constitution, under which case, Sir, I feel that there should be no discrimination and I the Honourable Prime would Minister to tell us whether there are Malaysians who, in fact, have two allegiances.

like is to allegiances The Prime Minister: Those who have two their that own knowledge; but when they are Malaysians, they are supposed to have undivided loyalty to this country.
As I have said, this word "bumiputera" has no legal meaning or legal signifi cance, and it has not been defined in our Constitution.

From that, we could say that a bumiputera and a Malaysian both enjoy exactly the same rights same duties and and have responsibilities the deeper meaning, perhaps, is intended to convey that there is a certain section in the Constitution which does give them certain rights.
as Malaysian; the that with Dr Tan Chee Kboon: Sir, in view of what the Prime Minister has said, term this is he aware "bumiputera" which has no legal meaning, the sooner we do away with .it the better it is, and that we call ourselves "Malaysians", "sons of the soil", whether he is a Melanau, or a Kadazan or a Murut or a "John Chinaman".
Is the Prime Minister also aware that this word, while necessary in the present context of our "history" is a divisive term that may give rise to misgivings on the part of people who, in the more accepted sense of the word, may think that they are excluded from being a "bumiputera"?

That's No.

1 question, Mr Speaker, Sir.

No.


2, Mr Speaker, Sir: I do not know whether the Honourable Prime Minister in defining that I am now a bumiputera, -by his definition, I was born in this 2471 13 NOVEMBER 1965' 2472 country and I owe no allegiance to any other country but Malaysia-does it not mean that I can be a participant of Bank Bumiputera, Mr Speaker, Sir?
The Prime Minister: I agree with the Honourable Member that we hope one day all these words that distinguish us Malaysians in this country will disappear-and, given time, I am sure they will disappear.

But as for the Honourable Member, if he choses to call himself a "bumiputera" and takes all the advantages under the economic planning, which it is intended to help the poor people, I do not think he is entitled to it, because he is a rich man.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have two questions, and I think them both at the same I'll frame time because the Honourable Prime Minister has got something else.

Sir, I wish to ask the Honourable Prime Minister on a point, which is direct.

Would the Straits-born Chinese---1 mean the term as used in the English language but our own local term for them is "Babas".-would they qualify as "bumiputeras"?

That is question No.

1.


The second one Sir, is that, in view of the fact that the Honourable Prime Minister has suggested that the term "Chinese" and its connotation, the term "Indian" and its connotation as suggested by the Member from Batu -could have 'a divisive effect, because it has an emotional political content in it, would not he advise his colleagues in the M.C.A.

(The Malayan Chinese.


Association) and (The Malayan Indian Congress) to change their names and come into the spirit of the "bumiputeras"?

the M.I.C.

The Prime Minister: Sir, it is not easy for me to answer that question.

If I am given notice, I will consult my colleagues in the M.C.A.

and in the M.I.C.
and in the M.I.C.

but to answer on their behalf would not be easy; they might not like to be called "bumiputera;' and, there fore as I said, if he were to ask me next time, I will make sure that I will find out the wishes of these people before I make an answer.

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Sir, could we take it to mean that the Honourable in the Prime Minister's colleagues M.C.A.

and the M.I.C.

are regarded by him as being less "bumiputric" than the other "Bumiputeras"?

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

The Prime Minister: This is a very interesting question.

Having worked with them all these years, I do not regard them as anything else but Members of the Alliance.

Tuan Baji Ahmad ·bin Abdullah (Kelantan Bilir): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, · saya hendak bertanya satu soalan.

Saya fikir Yang Teramat Mulia Perdana Menteri belum lagi jawab soalan yang telah di-kemukakan oleh wakil dari pada Pulau Pinang ia-itu "Straits-born Chinese".

Ada-kah mereka itu berhak memanggil mereka sa-bagai "Bumiputera"?
Kalau sa-kira-nya mereka itu berhak di-panggil sa-bagai bumiputera, ada-kah di-sisi Kerajaan, satu sekatan atau berapa keturunan kah satu bangsa asing yang beranak.

yang lahir dalam Tanah Melayu ini, orang2 ini baharu-lah di-namakan bumiputera?

Sa ya harap mendapat penjelasan daripada Perdana Menteri.

itu ini tadi, The Prime Minister: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, susah saya hendak beri penjelasan bagaimana saya kata per tama tidak di-ta'rifkan bumiputera ini.
J adi barang siapa yang suka hendak panggil diri-nya bumi tetapi sa-bagai putera, dia berhak chakapan yang terbit daripada orang2 asli di-Sarawak dan Borneo, di-sebut kan mereka dengan bahasa · Inggeris 'native'.

Sa-telah negeri itu dapat kemerdekaan mereka sendiri yang sebutkan diri mereka itu bumiputera.

Jadi dengan kerana itu-lah sebutan bumiputera telah di-gunakan di-dalam perkara2 yang tujuan Kerajaan hendak memberikan faedah atau buatkan ran changan kapada orang2 yang tersebut itu.
J adi bagi pehak orang2 keturunan China, yang di-katakan "Straits-born" atau Baba dan Nyonya, kalau mereka hendak panggil diri mereka bumiputera ada-lah tidak ada tegahan, bagitu-lah juga bagaimana saya kata orang Nas rani (Eurasian) kalau dulu itu Eurasian yang berma'ana-nya orang sini 2473 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2474 berugama Christian.

Scrani dalam perkataan kita berma'ana Christian.


Jadi orang ini membezakan diri-nya daripada orang Melayu yang Islam, di-panggilkan diri-nya Scrani dan sekarang ini telah pun dunia berubah, mereka panggilkan diri mcreka itu Eurasian, berma'ana champoran darah antara Asia dengan Europe dan mereka juga berhak sa-kira-nya mereka hendak: panggil diri mereka itu bumiputera.

Tidak siapa boleh larang atau tegah.

Jadi itu-lah sa-takat yang saya boleh jawab.


Sa-lain daripada itu tak upaya saya hendak kata apa lagi-lah, biar-lah masa lanjut sadikit supaya kita boleh berfikir.
that, the course of the Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, one last supplementary question: in view of the these fact in questions and answers, term "bumiputera" shows itself either of loose or of too tight a connotation, would it not be better for us legally, in legislation, to refer definitely to Melayu dan bumiputera, as already appeared in the MARA Bill, because the word "bumiputera" constitutionally referred originally the various natives in the North Borneo States, and because there are so many of them- 40,000 in one group-and so many divisions of them, it would collectively refer to them in that sense.
I am only referring to the legal aspect of it, Sir, not the social aspect of it, which I think the Prime the Honourable Minister has covered adequately.

to to The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, in acutal fact, on the legal aspect of it, the Malays are referred to as Malays.

It is only when we generalise the term which we had in mind to refer indigenous people of Malaya and the Borneo States that the term has now been employed-Le.

immaterial "bumiputera".


But it whether we use Malay as Malays and other as "bumiputera".

Legally we use under Malays as Malays.

the is Enche' Goh Chong Keat (Penang Utara): Sir, arising out of the answers given by the Honourable the Prime to ask a Minister, I would like supplementary question.

I would like to find out the standing of the "Jawi Peranakan".

(Laughter) Do you con sider them as Malays or bumiputeras?

Do they come within the definition of.


the Constitution, Article 153, and enjoy the privileges of the Malays?

(Laughter).

The Prime Minister: Mr Speaker, Sir, "Jawi Peranakans" are found mainly in Penang.

They are of Indian descent, born there, but very much mixed with Malays.

Today they are referred to as Malays, but no more as Jawi Peranakan.

If you refer to them as Jawi Peranakan, they will get very, very annoyed.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

Dato' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda (Pasir Puteh): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan kerana tambahan.

Oleh mengikut sa-panjang penjelasan yang di-berikan oleh Yang Amat Mulia Perdana Menteri ini nyata-lah bahawa ta'rif bumiputera ini maseh samar2• Apa-kah pehak Kerajaan bersedia hendak mengadakan atau menyusun satu ta'rif yang tegas dan jelas tentang maksud bumiputera ini?

The Prime Minister: ltu-lah saya jawab tadi ini.

Perkara ini baharu bangkit.

Jadi saya hendak jawab semua dengan tidak dapat.


Hal ini tentu-lah akan di-timbangkan oleh Kerajaan pada masa hadapan.

tepat Dato' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, sadikit lagi soalan tambahan.

Baharu sebentar tadi Tengku Perdana Menteri kita telah menyatakan bahawa bagi baba2 China atau pun China2 peranakan mereka suka hati mereka hendak menamakan diri mereka bumiputera atau pun tidak.
Sa-kira-nya mereka dengan sukarela hendak menamakan diri mereka bumiputera, apa-kah mereka berhak mendapat segala keutamaan2 yang di-maksudkan sa-barang undang2, atau pun sa-barang Ran changan dan sa-barang Lembaga amanah yang di-tujukan kapada mem bantu bumiputera, sedangkan sekarang ta'rif bumiputera dengan jelas belum ada.
di-dalam 2475 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2476 The Prime Minister: Bumiputera ini kalau kita timbang dengan di-ambilkan Bab 153 dalam Perlembagaan kita ini berma'ana orang Melayu sudah ada ta'rif.

dan natives of Borneo dan Sarawak sudah pun di-berikan ma'ana.

Jadi bumiputera ini belum lagi di-beri apa2 ma'ana chuma-nya sa-saorang yang memikirkan dia tidak ada lain negeri melainkan ini-lah negeri-nya, kalau dia hendak sebutkan nama-nya bumiputera dia berhak.
Tetapi bagai mana soal Yang Berhormat itu ada-kah dia ini berhak menerima segala faedah yang di-untokkan kapada bumiputera, itu sa-takat sekarang ini tidak dapat.

Itu-lah yang dapat saya katakan.
Dr Lim Chong Eu: Actually, arising out of the answer given to the question raised by the Honourable Member for Penang Utara, I would like to ask the Honourable the Prime Minister this; in view of the fact that he has told us that the term ''bumiputera" has greater depth, and that there are people from the baba and nyonya groups, who have far longer connections and more absolute connections with Malaysia than other people, who are qualified under the Constitution to call them selves bumiputeras or Malays, and in view also of the fact that the Members from the Front Bench on the Opposi.
tion have their reservation, I wonder whether "Melayu dan term Bumiputera" is really consonant; for example, the bumiputeras would accept the babas and the Honourable the Prime Minister says anybody can use the term "bumiputera".

The definition in the Constitution for the provision is a good one.

Sir, I ask the Honourable the Prime Minister just this question: will it not be better for us, as a policy and in the long run, to tend more to use the term "Malaysian" rather than the term "bumiputera"?
Other wise, all this present dissatisfaction can build up to political tensions in the country.

the The Prime Minister: Well, it is not easy for me to answer it, Sir.

I think in the course of time we might.

be able to decide on the appropriate use for "Malaysians".

At the moment, we have to lbt things go as it is.

There is nothing that I can say at this moment because, as I said, I come only pre pared to answer the short question of what a "bumiputera" is.
Instead of that, I have had to give all different answers with regard to people who are Jawi Peranakan and all the various classes, groups of people in this Sabah, Sarawak, nyonyas, babas, Straits-born; (Laughter) and so if I am now asked to say whether it would not be a good thing to apply the word "Malaysian" to all these people, I say "Yes".

I have said before that it is a good thing, and it is hoped that one day we will have one term only for all those who owe undivided loyalty to this country.
That is the most I can say.

country, down to LANGKAH2 YANG DI-AMBIL UNTOK PEMUSATAN KEPU NYAAN TANAH DI-DAERAIP LUAR BANDAR 10.

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair bertanya kapada Menteri Tanah dan Galian nyatakan apa-kah langkah2 yang telah di-ambit untok menchegah pemusatan kepunyaan luar bandar dan pemindahan kepunyaan tanah yang bersistem, daripada daerah luar luar bandar ka-daerah bukan bandar.
tanah di-daerah2 The Minister of Lands and Mines (Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, soalan ini saya anggap sa-bagai sa-ekor ular yang mempunyai dua kepala.

Pertama sa-kali Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ber kata ada pemusatan kepunyaan tanah di-luar bandar.

Kedua, kenyataan, kata-nya ada pula penukaran tanah2 itu daripada luar bandar kapada bukan luar bandar.

Jadi saya tidak-lah tahu apa yang di-maksudkan oleh Yang Berhormat itu di-dalam soalan ini.
Dia tidak dapat memberi soalan yang tepat.

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, the genesis of this question was an article I read.

by Professor Ungku Aziz, who talks about a tendency for increasing concentration of land ownership in the rural areas and also these are the words he used : 2477 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2478 of transference rural land "Systematic ownership from to non-rural areas".

Now.

he is the Professor of Economics and he possibly has his own sources of information.
I would like to know whether, if what the Professor says is true, the Government is aware of it and whether any steps are being taken to rectify it.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: As stated just now, Sir, this question contains two contradictory facts.

May I stress first that this thing is strictly a State matter and I have no ministerial responsibility.

Be that as it may, let us see what is the first fact asserted in this question.
The first is the concen tration of land ownership in rural areas, but in the same breath, the Honourable Member says, "systematic transference of land ownership from rural to non-rural areas".

So if there is concentration of land ownership in the rural areas, how can there be systematic transference of land owner ship from rural to non-rural areas?
E11.che' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker, Sir, he is not arguing with me; he is arguing with the expression of an economist-and the economists very often do not write good English.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kob: On a point of order, Mr Speaker, Sir, according to the Standing Orders as the Honourable Member must know, he must be responsible for the facts that are said in this House.

He cannot rely on the opinion of some one else.


Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Sir, surely he has got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

May I enlighten him?

I was talking about the language of the economist.

Probably, what was meant by the term "increasing con centration of land ownership" was that larger and larger pieces of land are being owned by fewer and fewer people.

That is probably what the economist meant by the use of that "systematic therefore, term.
And, transference of land ownership from rural to non-rural areas" probably refers to absentee landlords.

That is what it means.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: Mr Speaker, Sir, by 'probably' what does he himself mean?

I want to know what he wants to know (Laughter).

"Probably means", what does it mean?

If he knows what he wants me to tell him, I can tell him.

He does not know what he is talking about!

Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Mr Speaker.

Sir.


he does not know whether, in fact, there is this tendency towards a greater transference of land ownership from rural to urban areas; he does not know; he is not interested, and he is shielding himself behind the Standing Order Book.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: Sir, I am prepared to answer any question which is clear; he himself admits that he does not know.
He says "probably it means this", "probably it means that", and he wants me to answer a question of which he himself does not know the meaning.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, the second part of this question is about the systematic transfer of land from rural to non-rural areas which has been explained as being transfer of land in rural areas to absentee landlords.

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: Is it a question or a statement?
Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Sir, I am asking now whether the Minister is aware that absentee landlordism in the rural areas is a very serious matter particularly to the bumiputeras; and, if so.

what action will the Honourable Minister take in conjunction with the various State Governments to eradicate this evil of absentee landlordism?

Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: What is the meaning of "systematic transference"?
Is it a transference by going to the Registration Office and get the transfer registered or is it a transference with proper planning by the Government?

Let us get the clarification first, before I answer the question.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: I am not talking now on the question of transfer at all.

May I reiterate, as perhaps my English was not good enough and 2479 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2480 perhaps I got myself misunderstood.

I shall repeat the question very slowly.


Is the Minister aware that the prob:em of absentee landJordism in the rural areas is a very serious problem, particularly to the bumiputera.

If so, what steps has taken.

or the Honourable Minister what steps does he propose to take in the various State conjunction with Governments to eradicate this evil of absentee- Iandlordism?

I hope, Mr Speaker, Sir.

my English is clear now.

If not, if the Minister wants it.

I can explain it in the National Language.


in this Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: As far as the whole of Malaysia is concerned, I am not aware that there is that acute problem of absentee land· lordism as the Honourable Member calls it.

Even if there is such a problem, Sir, one must bear in mind this: land is primarily a State matter under the Constitution.

The only thing that the Government can do is that if there is, in fact, such a serious problem, we can discuss the National Land Council.
But let us look at the situation in our country.

All the lands-the greater portion of them must necessarily be in the rural areas.

There are vast areas in the rural areas in Sarawak and the same is the case in Sabah.

So.

where can the people from the town go, except to the rural areas?

I am not saying is evidence that all the towkays, if that is what is meant or driven at by the Honourable Members, are grabbing all the lands that belong to the bumiputera in the rural areas.
there that Dr Lim Chong Eu: I am not an economist, nor am I a lawyer.

But the question as framed appears to me quite clear, and I think that the Honourable Minister concerned has already replied in some extent to this question.

How· ever, there are other factors which are not implied by this question which he has not answered.

As a matter of fact, the during our MARA Bill.


the people are such that, using the very terms as the Honourable Minister has used, the land is in the rural areas and long debate over indications of is that the capital that either people and the towkays in the urban areas are grabbing all the land.

We know that the land is in the rural areas.

largely We know comes from the urban areas.


I think the problem rural dwellers acquire the land and move out to live in the urban areas after they become wealthy, or else people with excess capital or the.

necessary capital in the urban areas go into the rural areas and acquire land; and, therefore, from that point of view, the economic tendency leads to a sys tematic transference of land ownership from the rural to the non-rural areas.
That is the implication, and, if we are correct in interpreting Government's policy towards MARA, namely that the development and the ownership of land should be in the rural areas and there should not be this tr an sf erence of ownership, I think there is some the Honourable measure which Minister could well to look .

into prevent any further undue move.


in the Enche' Abdul-Rahman bin Ya'kub: Mr Speaker, Sir, the policy of the Alliance Government for the past several years is to give land in the rural areas, as it cannot give land in the urban areas, first to the landless people.

Only recently have we relaxed that policy slightly, Sir, to give certain lands situated interior for estate development purposes.
For example, if some local companies wish to have rubber estate or kelapa sawit, the State Governments could consider those applications, but that has just started a few months ago.

But I am not aware of the fact that there is this so-called serious problem that'large parts of land in the rural areas are now in the hands of absentee landlords.

Mr Speaker: Question time is up.

MOTION THE DEVELOPMENT (SUPPLEMENTARY) (No.


2) ESTIMATES, 1965 Order read for the resumption of consideration of · the Development (No.

2) Estimates.

(Supplementary) 2481 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2482 1965, in Committee of the whole House (12th November, 1965).

House immediately resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House.

(Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) Heads 146, 147, 177, 198 and 1'9- Debate resumed.
in lbe Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Pengerusi, saya menyambong uchapan saya sa-malam Kepala 198-Pelabohan (Sarawak).

Pechahan Kepala 12- Penyelidekan Pelabohan Kuala Baram peruntokan tambahan $7,100.

Penyeli dekan hydrology dan model survey Kuala Baram telah di-luluskan pada tahun 1964.

Anggaran bagi penyeli dekan telah di-buat sa-banyak £21,500.
Permohonan bantuan di-buat kapada Kerajaan British dan Kerajaan itu bersetuju memberi bantuan penyeli dekan ini dengan sharat, Kerajaan Sarawak atau pun Kerajaan Malaysia, bersetuju mengeluarkan 15 peratus bagi penyelidekan tersebut.

Persetujuan 15 peratus telah di-chapai yang bayaran ini ada-lah bersamaan dengan $30,000.

Peruntokan telah di-sediakan di-bawah Kepala 198-Pelabohan, Pe chahan Kepala 12, dalam Kementerian ini.
Tetapi dukachita mema'alumkan lepas anggaran itu di-buat perbelanjaan bagi kaki-tangan2 dan perbelanjaan barang2 semua-nya telah meningkat naik mulai daripada 1-4-65 dan per belanjaan penyelidekan itu pun terus naik sama daripada £21,500 kapada £27,000.

Ini benna'ana bahagian per belanjaan yang kena di-keluarkan oleh Kerajaan Sarawak pun bertambah.
Perkara ini telah di-sampaikan kapada Kerajaan Sarawak dan Kerajaan ter sebut bersetuju membayar tambahan baki-nya dengan sebab kenaikan harga tersebut dan kerana faedah yang boleh di-dapati daripada penyelidekan itu ada-lah besar dan berguna kapada negeri Sarawak.

Perbelanjaan tam bahan di-kehendakkan $7,100 itu telah di-bayar lebeh dahulu daripada wang perbelanjaan mengejut.

Kepala 199-Penerbangan Awam (Sarawak).

Pechahan Kepala 10.

Mem baiki Landasan Lapangan Terbang di-Sibu.


Peruntokan tambahan $130,000 dengan kerana Lapangan Terbang Sibu di-gunakan berlebeh2 oleh kapal2 terbang awam dan tentera telah menye babkan kerosakan dan sa-bahagian daripada lapangan terbang itu.

Oleh itu lapangan terbang ini di-kehendaki di-perbaiki dengan segera supaya dapat di-gunakan oleh kapal terbang jenis Dakota.
Lapangan terbang ini juga sangat pcnting sa-bagai ganti Lapangan Terbang di-Kuching sa-bagai kapal jenis terbang Sharikat Malaysian Fokker Friendship daripada Singapura itu dan Brunei.

Sa-lain daripada lapangan terbang itu juga sangat2 perlu bagi kapaJ2 terbang tentera, dan oleh itu mesti-lah di-perbaiki dengan segera supaya dapat di-gunakan dengan sam purna-nya oleh kapal2 terbang tentera dan awam.

Perbelanjaan sa-banyak $130,000 telah di-dahulukan Perkum pulan Wang Belanja Mengejut.
Kepala Kechil 11-Penerbangan Awam (Sarawak).

Lapangan Terbang Bintulu $500,000.

Di-dalam tahun 1963 Sharikat Penerbangan Borneo mengadakan Perkhidmatan Kapalter bang Jenis Dakota ka-Bintulu dua kali sa-minggu.

Perkhidmatan ini di-dapati maju dan sekarang tiap2 hari ada perkhidmatan kapalterbang ka-Bintulu pergi dan balek.
Dengan kerana lapangan kapalterbang ini kerap sangat di-gunakan oleh Dakota, jalan atau pun landasan itu telah menjadi tinggi rendah, oleh itu di-kehendaki di-per baiki dengan banyak belanja dan terus di-gunakan oleh kapal2 terbang yang lain juga di-gunakan pada masa ka· hadapan nanti.

Sa-tengahl tempat yang berpasir langsong tidak dapat di-guna kan pada hari hujan, kerana ayer membawa pasir itu menjadikan banyak lubang2 di-landasan kapalterbang itu.
Chara mengatasi, memperbaiki se mentara yang banyak dan memakan belanja yang mahal, kerana membuat, merata padang landasan kapalterbang ini, oleh itu akan di-adakan landasan kapalterbang batu yang bertar, dari pada sekarang, ini untok membolehkan kapalterbang jenis Fokker Friendship datang mendarat di-situ.
Pejabat Penerbangan Awam Borneo telah pun membuat chadangan meng- 2483 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2484 adakan landasan yang baik dengan menggunakan batu dan bertar dalam ranchangan tahun 1965, tetapi tidak di-terima oleh Kerajaan Sarawak pada masa itu, sebab di-fikirkan belum perlu lagi, tetapi sa-telah Kerajaan Pusat meminta Sharikat Penerbangan Awam Malaysia mengadakan tambahan lagi sa-buah kapalterbang Fokker Friend ship ka-Bomeo sa-bagai satu sharat yang di-kenakan kapada sharikat itu.
Dalam penyatuan Sharikat Pener bangan Malaysia dan Borneo, maka ada-lah menjadi kewajipan Kerajaan memperlakukan, atau memperbaikkan, lagi membesar landasan kapalterbang supaya kapalterbang Fokker Friendship boleh turun di-Bintulu dalam tahun 1966 ini.

Jumlah perbelanjaan membuat jalan, atau pun landasan ini yang panjang nya 4,500 kaki sa-banyak $1,511,500 tetapi dengan kerana tahun ini hampir habis, chuma di 1965 kehendaki lebeh dahulu.
dan menguatkan $500,000 sahaja ia-lah ini Lagi, satu sebab yang projek ini kena di-mulakan sekarang ini ia-lah dengan sebab jentera2 yang berat sudah ada berdekatan dengan Bintulu dan oleh itu sa-wajar-nya-lah di-gunakan jentera2 itu sekarang, sa-belum di-pindah ka tempat2 yang lain, kerana sukar akan di-bawa balek dan akan memakan belanja yang lebeh banyak lagi.

lni boleh jadi tidak dapat dan juga tidak dapat akan di-siapkan pada waktu yang di-jadualkan.
Wang peruntokan ini telah di-ambil daripada Simpanan Wang, Kepala 193, Pechahan Kepala I, dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan bagi negeri Sarawak dan telah di-dahuluka,p daripada Perkum pulan Wang Belanja Mengejut.

Saya mohon perbelanjaan di-bawah Kepala2 yang tersebut di-atas yang ber jumlah $3,039,391 itu di-luluskan.
Enche' Abo Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, di-bawah Head 146 hendak berkenaan dengan ia-itu membuat jalan menuju ka-wharves, Butterworth, saya mengeshorkan ka pada Kementerian yang berkenaan supaya mengenakan chukai lalu jalan di-jambatan yang hendak pergi ka pantai itu.

ini lni, Tuan Pengerusi, kalau kita kenakan chukai titi, atau jambatan itu, akan banyak-lah basil negara kita dan dengan demikian, tidak-lah berat sangat, atau pun tidak mesti kita mengenakan chukai pelajaran kapada bangsa kita.
Lagi pun, Tuan Pengerusi, chukai yang di-kenakan melalui jam ia-lah kapada motokar2, batan lori2 dan orang2 ini boleh membayar duit itu-tidak sa-bagaimana ra'ayat biasa; ra'ayat biasa hendak membayar makanan-nya pun susah dan her· macham2 lagi.

Apa-tab lagi, kalau sa-kira-nya Common Market, atau Pasaran Bersama itu tidak boleh di lakukan antara Pulau Pinang dengan mainland, ia-itu dengan tanah besar kita ini, tentu-lah banyak capitalist2 hendak membawa lori, hendak pergi mengambil barang2.
Jadi, kita kenakan chukai kapada capitalist2 itu.

Ini, Tuan Pengerusi, chara kita hendak men dapatkan duit dengan tidak payah menekan ra'ayat jelata yang miskin.

Berhubong dengan perkara ini, saya pun tidak tahu angka yang sa-benar nya, tetapi jambatan di-Kelantan yang di-katakan Jambatan Politik yang orang2 kata di-buat daripada buloh, bukan daripada buloh, Tuan Pengerusi, cement betul.
Saya pada mula2 pergi mendengar kempen Perikatan, saya tengok kok buloh juga, bila siap saya pergi tengok, saya dapati cement, kual Itu pun dekat2 $25,000 dapat dalam satu bulan.

Jadi, lalu-lintas di-situ tidak-lah bagitu banyak, kalau-lah perkara ini Menteri kita boleh buat bagitu, saya rasa satu pendapatan yang besar akan kita dapat.

Perkara yang kedua ia-lah berkenaan dengan padang2 kapalterbang di-Sabah sangat-lah dan di-Sarawak.
Saya bersetuju di-atas permintaan Wang Tambahan ini supaya di-adakan pem baikan2, landasan2 yang lebeh baik.

Tetapi ada satu perkara yang saya hendak menchari penjelasan kapada Menteri kita yang berkenaan, ia-itu oleh kerana padang2 kapalterbang ini yang pada mula-nya di-gunakan oleh penerbangan2 awam.

Tetapi berikutan 2485 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2486 dengan konfrantasf daripada Indonesia, maka kapal2terbang military pun menggunakan juga padang2 itu.
J adi, tidak-kah ada apa2 peruntokan yang di-minta oleh Menteri ini untok mem buat pagar2 untok menyelamatkan padang kapalterbang itu, kerana · telah berlaku satu perkara, ia-itu sa-orang Jawa, .

di~pehak pemandu bangsa Indonesia yang menjadi gurila yang dudok menyerang kita ini, dia boleh masok ka-salah satu padang kapal terbang di-Sabah, atau di-Sarawak saya lupa-dia churi-nya kapalterbang.

Jadi, bagaimana-lah Menteri kita ini menjaga sampai kapalterbang pun penyeludop Indonesia boleh menchuri.
J adi ini, kalau saya, Tuan Pengerusi, saya sudah resign sa-bagai Menteri itu -saya malu; kapalterbang pun orang boleh churl .

.

.

.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Padang kapalterbang yang mana itu?

Saya ini jaga awam punya, bukan military.


tadi, Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Sebab itu-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, saya kaitkan ia-itu padang kapal terbang pada asal-nya di-gunakan oleh terbang · pei:l~rbangan awam, kapal2 tetapi oleh kerana padang kapalterbang ini di-gunakan juga oleh kapal2 terbang military, maka sudah berlaku-lah satu kechurian yang sa-macham ini.

Jadi, apa-kah tindakan .

.


.. Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, bagi pengetahuan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Bachok, saya tidak ada menerima apa2 report yang orang Indonesia churi kapalterbang, ta' tahu-lah kalau di-reka2 sahaja, boleh jadi propaganda Indonesia.
Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, masaalah Menteri kita tidak menerima, itu masaalah lain, tetapi saya mengatakan benda ini ada berlaku kalau tidak berlaku dia boleh nafikan-atau tidak terima-boleh jadi benda berlaku itu dia, lalai.

The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): On a point of order, Sir, can the Honourable Member substantiate his statement that an aeroplane had been stolen by an Indonesian from the Malaysian terri tories?
If not, we will bring him up before the Privileges Committee, Sir.

Eadie' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Menteri tahu-lah yang sa-benar.

Itu sebab saya tanya minta penjelasan.

Mr Chairman: Dia bertanya ada-kah perkara · itu betul berlaku kechurian di-dalam satu tempat kapalterbang.

Enche' Abu Dakar bin Bamzah: Ia di-dalam.

Itu sebab di-bangkitkan perkara ini.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Chairman, Sir, can he substantiate his statement?

Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Perkara .

itu saya bacha dalam surat khabar.


Dr Lim Swee Aun: Otherwise, this is a breach of the privileges.

He cannot make a statement that it has happened when he cannot substantiate it.

Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagai Member Parlimen, apa yang saya dapat tahu saya kemukakan kapada Kementerian ini.

Hendak suroh saya chari docu ment, apa itu semua, bukan kerja saya yang sa-macham itu.

Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Untok pen jelasan Tuan Pengerusi, wakil dari Bachok, chuma hendak bertanya sahaja.
Kalau Kerajaan boleh mene rangkan hati.

boleh Jangan-lah kita merepotkan kapada Jawatankuasa Privilege .. Don't use the big stick and the mail fist all the time to frighten us, Sir I puas dia Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan , Pengerusi, say~ terima kaseh Wakil dari Batu masok champor.

Sa-benar-nya dia bukan bertanya saya.

Dia mengatakan, ada sa-buah kapal terbang yang telah di-churl oleh askar Indonesia daripada padang kapalter bang yang di-Borneo Territory.

Maka saya sendiri ta' tahu.


Maka kita tanya sahaja kapada dia kalau ta' betul benda itu-tarek balek-lah.

Itu sahaja soal-nya.

Kalau dia kata, boleh jadi, kalau ·ta' di-pagar di-churi itu lain kesah.

He is giving a statement of fact, 2487 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2488 is very dangerous from which the enemy angle, because the enemy can use this as a weapon against us.

We are not prepared for that.


tidak kurang Enche' Abo Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau sa-kira-nya Menteri atau Menteri2 kita berasa perkara yang sa-macham itu sa-bagai satu perkara yang besar dan bimbang terhadap negara kita, takut kalau seteru kita dapat tahu-Members of Parliament pun juga chemburu kapada negara ini.

Jadi erti nya bukan-lah Members of Parliament erti-nya menyerahkan negara itu ka pada Menteri sahaja dan kita nak tahu juga perkara itu.
Sebab berlaku sa suatu perkara terhadap negara, bukan Menteri sahaja yang bertanggong jawab, Members of Parliament dan tak ra'ayat kita kenal itu, Tuan Pengerusi, .

.

.

.

juga-parang, dia Sebab siapa.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Chairman, Sir, did he or did he not make a state ment that an aeroplane has been stolen by an Indonesian from a Malaysian territory?

Did he not say that just now?


Enche' Abo Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya menyebut bahawa sampai ka-pengetahuan saya-saya lupa surat khabar itu, ta' ada pada saya jadi yang saya ingat bagini-berlaku satu kechurian kapalterbang di-satu padang kapalterbang di-dalam kawasan negara kita-Malaysia, Sabah atau Sarawak-kah saya tidak ingat itu.

Jadi kalau saya bertanya kapada Menteri kita ini, apa-kah kita tidak meminta Peruntokan supaya dapat kita membuat pagar atau pun membuat satu2 kawalan yang tertentu.
Kerana mengikut keterangan Menteri kita, padang kapalterbang awam itu di-gunakan juga oleh kapalterbang military.

Jadi saya minta benda ini penjelasan dan tanggong-jawab dari pada Menteri itu untok menerangkan· nya.

Sebab benda saya pun merasakan bahaya dalam perkara ini.

Ada pun hendak suroh saya .

.

.

.

ini berlaku, ini Mr Chairman: Saya ingin bertanya dalam itu khabar dalam surat khabar lnggeris-kah atau Melayu?
surat apa Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya terlupa-surat khabar tidak ada; pada saya, Kapal itu kita punya-kah, siapa terbang punya-kah, tetapi yang berlaku itu di-dalam kawasan kita.

Jadi ada-kah ini berlaku yang sa-macham itu?

Kalau berlaku ada-kah benda .

.

.

.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: I did ask him Sir, whether that thing happened or not.

Did he make a statement that the thing did happen?

That is the question, Sir.


saya memebri Enche' Abu Bakar bin Bamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya bertanya Menteri ini.

Mula2 satu statement perkara ini berlaku bagini.

jadi saya bertanya, betul-kah perkara itu berlaku dalam Kementerian ini?

Kalau berlaku ada-kah Menteri kita ini nak minta duit dan mengapa tidak minta duit untok membuat pagar2 yang menjaga padang kapalterbang kita itu?

.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: 'l'adi saya sudah terangkan hendak memotong pendek perkara ini.
Tidak ada berlaku, sampai ka-pengetahuan saya, habis-lah cherita.

Maka kalau Menteri berchakap, Yang Berhormat ta' perchaya, siapa Iagi hantu na' perchaya?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Bamzah: Bukan saya ta' perchaya, saya sedang dudok hendak rnenghabiskan uchapan saya sadikit bila Menteri itu jawab.

Mr Chairman: Habis\can-lah !

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Bamzah: 'Ah!

na' habiskan itu (Ketawa).

Mr Chairman: Fasal kechurian kapal terbang itu sudah habis kesah.

Yang lain sarnbong.

(Ketawa).


Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Yang lain ta' ada, Tuan Pengerusi, itu sahaja (Ketawa).

Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Said (Seberang Utara): Tuan Pengerusi, saya ingin berchakap Kepala 146, Kepala-kechil 11-wang sa-banyak 2 juta ringgit di-untokkan untok mem jalan besarkan jalan dan mernbuat 2489 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2490 juga baharu ka-arah dermaga dalam Butter worth.
Saya ingin mendapat penjelasan daripada Yang Berhormat sama ada duit peruntokan bagi mengadakan lapangan perhentian kenderaan2 ber dekatan dengan Pengkalan Sultan Abdul Halim dan seteshen keretapi.

Kerana pada pendapat saya lapangan perhentian kereta, teksi, bas dan kereta2 private sangat mustahak, manakala tempat itu sudah siap untok kemudahan penumpang2 keretapi dan juga penumpang ferry yang akan berulang-alek dari Pulau Pinang ka Butterworth dan juga ka-lain2 tempat dalam tanah besar ini.
Jadi sa-kira-nya peruntokan mengenai tidak ada pengambilan lapangan tanah untok perhentian, ada-kah Kementerian ini berchadang hendak mengadakan per untokan itu.

Kerana saya sa-orang daripada ahli Jawatan-kuasa Penasehat Peranchang ini telah pun bersetuju dalam jawatan-kuasa meminta Kemen terian mengadakan peruntokan untok membuat satu lapangan perhentian bas kereta2 dan lain2.

Sa-kira-nya tidak ada saya harap Yang Berhormat akan memasokkan peruntokan untok apa yang saya sebutkan itu.

Terima kaseh.
Terima kaseh.

Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like, first of all, to refer to Head 198, Sub'-head 12, Investigation, Kuala Baram Port.

I would first like to ask the Minister what is the nature of this investigation at Kuala Baram.

Could he give us some information as to what has been discovered, and whether the intention to develop the port at Kuala Baram.

is it I would next like to refer to Head 199, Civil Aviation (Sarawak).
We welcome these improvements to the Airfields at Sibu and Bintulu, because they are very necessary at the present stage of our development.

Since these areas are not linked by roads, air communication is very important.

I would like to ask him whether he has got any plan for the improvement, extension or, perhaps, rebuilding of the Kuching Airport, because I think he himself must appreciate that the air port is very congested owing to the large amount of traffic that passes through it.
I know several extensions have already been made to the existing building-the air terminal-but that does not seem to meet the problem, because no longer has one extension been constructed we find that, once again, the airport becomes congested.

Perhaps it might save money, in the long run, if a new airport is considered.

I would like to ask the Honourable Minister whether he has got any plan for the development of the Kuching Airport.
Enche' Chia Chin Shin (Sarawak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to refer to Head 198.

I remember that last year I raised the question about the improvement of the port at Kuala Baram, and I am very glad that this item has been included in this year's Development Estimates.
I would like to ask the Honourable Minister how soon can we know the result of this investigation because, in the Fourth Division, Kuala Baram is the only tentative port where the access of timber and rubber in time to come is very important.

Sir, I would also like to touch on Head 199, Sub-heads 10 and 11, Sibu Airfield and the Bintulu Aerodrome.

From time to time, we have seen travellers travelling to Miri, which is also an important port.
Very often due to weather conditions, planes are pre vented from landing.

So, as a result of that, a lot of inconvenience is caused to travellers as well as to those who are expecting passengers on board.

We are given to understand that the Miri airfield is under construction at the moment and that it will not be com pleted until the end of 1966.

I would like to ask the Honourable Minister if it is possible to use all means to expedite the construction of this new airport.

Thank you, Sir.
Thank you, Sir.

I would Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Chairman, Sir, first of all, to refer to Head 146, Sub-head 11- Land Acquisition and Construction of Approach Roads, Deep Water Wharves, Butterworth.

Firstly, we would like the Honourable Minister to like 2491 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2492 the attention of inform us whether these roads will eventually be Federal roads or State roads.
Secondly, Sir, I feel that we the should draw Honourable Minister of Transport to the· fact that the construction of these roads is definitely bringing improve ment to the whole area of Butterworth but not to the area of Prai.

Apart from the construction of the railway bridge, coming across from Prai to Butter worth, the land communication over and above the river communication between Prai and Butterworth will become steadily an increasing problem.
In providing for the construction of the roads which subject, admittedly, , is strictly within the Minister of Transport, we feel that the Minister should also probably consult the Minister of Local Government and Housing systematic to provide a Development of the town of Butter worth, so that whatever roads that are constructed will lead to the deep water wharves of Butterworth and will not eventually go through a maze of con gestion, and that the buildings and the growth itself will not be upset by the provision of these roads.
the portfolio of The other general factor, which I like to refer to, is that, in view of the fact that there is provision for the development of more air transport facilities in Sabah and Sarawak, will the Honourable Minister of Transport also look into the fact, that, having provided the facilities for transport which are very, very important in these two areas, where land communications and other means of communications from the major centres with the interior are very, very difficult, whether he would consider the question of ensuring that the cost of air transport in Sabah and Sarawak is reduced or made available to as many people as possible?
Enche' Randi bin Omar (Krian Darat): Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap berkenaan dengan Kepala 198.

Jadi, saya berasa tidak puas hati, Tuan Pengerusi, yang mana ada satu pehak khas-nya ia-itu Ahli Yang Ber hormat daripada Bachok.

Bukan-lah saya hendak menjawab bagi pehak Menteri Yang Berhormat, tetapi saya tidak puas hati menudoh kechuaian bagi pehak Kementerian berkenaan dengan kehilangan kapalterbang itu.

Yang saya tahu, Tuan Pengerusi, ada siaran daripada Radio Indonesia.
Apa yang saya bimbang di-dalam Dewan ini, boleh jadi, dalam Dewan yang mulia ini ada agent daripada Indonesia.

Jadi ini-lah tidak puas hati saya yang saya sangat sukachita hendak menyata kan di-dalam Dewan yang mulia ini.

Itu-lah sahaja, Tuan Pengerusi.

sadikit sahaja.

Dato' Ling Beng Siew (Sarawak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to refer to Head 198-Investigation, Kuala Baram Port.

I understand the Government has sent some experts to do a survey at Kuala Baram.
I do not think that a: report has been produced by these surveyors, but from what the Minister of Sarawak Affairs has told, I under stand that is a very expensive project.

As you know, Sir, Sungei Baram is at the boundary between our country and Brunei.

It seems that this project is a very expensive one, and we will need a big sum of money to build a deep water port at Kuala Baram.
So, I just wonder whether our Government would like to invite the Brunei Government to have a joint venture to participate in building a deep-water port at Kuala Bar am.

Now, I come to Head 199-Jmprove ment to Runway, Sibu Airfield.

So far as I understand, the Government has done something about this runway, Last year, it had done some extension to the runway to enable this runway "Fokker to take Friendship".

in planes like This runway is quite all right.


How ever, what we complain is of the terminal building.

This terminal build ing was built in 1949, that is, 16 years ago, if I am not mistaken.

Now, the population has increased and again the number of passengers travelling by tremen aircraft has also dously, but the building remains the same-and most of the time you will see that the air terminal is so congested.
increased 2493 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2494 So, I just wonder whether the Govern ment can do something about the building, and I would like the Honour able Minister to look into this matter and either extend the building or build a completely new and bigger air termi nal at Sibu Airport.

Enche' Tan Cheng Bee (Bagan): Mr Speaker, Sir, I refer to Head 146, Sub-head 11, Land Acquisition and Construction of Approach Roads to Deep Water Wharves, Butterworth.
Sir, 1 would like to support the views of my colleague, the Member for Seberang Utara, about the provision of a car park and a base for buses in that area.

I would like to suggest that, if it has the Chairman not yet been done, of the District Council North (P.W.)

be co-opted as a Member of the Advisory Committee to give advice to the Government over the development of this area.
The development would involve the planning of Butterworth as well as the Prai Town, as has been touched upon by the Member for Tanjong.

I think it would be a good thing to have our Chairman of the District Council North (P.W.)

now included in the Committee.

Thank you.


Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir: Tuan Pengerusi, bagi menjawab uchapan2 daripada Yang Berhormat wakil Bachok, kesah kapalterbang hilang kena churi, ini ta' timbul, Tuan Pengerusi, saya ingat barangkali dia hendak buat chontoh, kita uchapkan terima kaseh tentang dia menyokong kerana permintaan wang kerana pagar2 waktu dharurat ini memang-lah padang kapalterbang ini satu daripada tempat yang mustahak.
Maka peruntokan buat membuat padang kapalterbang ini memang-lah ada masok juga berkenaan dengan pagar2 dan lain2 lagi daripada segi keselamatan.

Saya akan siasat balek mana2 padang kapalterbang yang belum ada pagar patut ~emohon­ kan wang dan saya harap Rumah Yang Mulia ini akan bersama2 menyokong peruntokan itu.

Kedua-nya berkenaan dengan ba yaran paksa macham Ialu-lintas melalui hmbatan T. A. Rahman-jambatan PAS di-Kota Bharu, bayar 50 sen bagi jalan jalan ini, barangkali sa-buah motokar.
Soal pembayaran ini saya akan rojokkan-lah kapada rakan saya, Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom yang saya tahu dasar-nya, dasar Kerajaan kita, kira-nya ada satu jalan lain yang panjang atau jauh dan ada pula di-buat jalan baharu yang pendek macham daripada· Tanjong Malim ka-Slim River itu, pada dasar-nya patut di-kena bayaran kalau mereka tidak mahu bayar dia boleh jauh.
Tetapi Yang gunakan Berhormat sangka kereta2 dan bawa kereta selalu ka Butterworth melalui J ambatan Barley atau pun jarnbatan pelarnpong, di Permatang Pauh itu walau pun seka rang belum di-buka lagi, ada lagi tetapi tujuan akhir-nya, jarnbatan itu akan di-buka.

Maka kereta2 dari Selatan dan Utara semua sa-kali rnengalir ka-Prai dan mengikut jalan yang baharu menerusi jambatan yang baharu.

Maka narnpak tidak ada jalan lain.


Maka sarna ada ini hendak di-kenakan bayaran atau tidak, saya akan serahkan lah kapada rakan saya, Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom rnenyiasat di itu dalarn perkara memang elok tetapi saya harap pehak2 PAS yang menyeberang jarnbatan ini kalau kena bayar nanti ta' usah-lah gadoh Kerajaan Perikatan hendak kenakan bayaran.

ini.
Chadangan Yang kedua-nya berkenaan dengan wakil Yang Berhorrnat Seberang Utara faharn beliau juga menjadi Pengerusi Majlis Luar Bandar Utara Seberang Prai dan saya perchaya saya pun telah berchakap kapada beliau sa-benar-nya pehak Kementerian saya telah rojok kan kapada Kerajaan Negeri Pulau supaya berunding dengan Pinang Majlis Bandaran Butterworth, supaya mengakukan tempat yang ada tanah lapang, hari ini, sa-kira-nya hendak di jadikan perhentian kereta2 kenderaan patut boleh-lah di-rundingkan dengan Kerajaan Negeri.
Kerana Surohanjaya Pelabohan Pulau Pinang ini rneng gunakan duit hutang, kalau duit hutang hendak kena bayar batek.

Maka kalau hendak di-buat sa-suka hati perhentian kereta, tentu-lah tidak dapat hendak di-benarkan.
Saya harap sa-buah Jawatan-kuasa yang telah pun saya 2495 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2496 perentahkan di-tubohkan, sudah pun berjalan, dan yang mana Town Planner, Pulau Pinang juga yang menjadi sa orang daripada ahli-nya dan jalan2 yang di-bena hari ini dan jambatan sudah pun di-fikirkan oleh Town Planner, Port Authority, Railways and ·au those concerned in the P.W.D.
Maka itu tujuan kereta yang ber tambah sa-hari2 ini senang-lah boleh lalu dari jambatan yang baharu, jalan yang lebar menerusi Jambatan T. A. Rahman ini yang jambatan yang baharu ini terus ka-Butterworth dengan tidak lagi melalui jalan yang lama.

Dari segi traffic statistic ini akan membaikkan lagi perhubongan ia-itu jalan yang baharu.
Maka saya akan ambil ingatan juga kira-nya pada satu waktu nanti, terlampau banyak lagi barangkali akan kenderaan, timbang dan fikirkan jalan itu akan di-jadikan double lane or double carriage way, atau jalan dua sa-lari itu terpulang-lah dengan Menteri Kerja Raya, Pos dan Talikom akan memikir kan masa ka-hadapan kelak.

lalu-lintas kita jambatan Berkenaan dengan perkembangan kawasan Prai, saya fikir jalan keretapi dengan jalan motor car ini.
mula-nya hendak di-buat sa-belah2-side by side-tetapi terlampau besar jambatan nya kalau hendak di-buat dan leber jalan dan jambatan-nya akan banyak lebeh belanja dan kawasan itu lebeh sempit lagi.

Sebab itu hari ini di-lain kan, jambatan keretapi jauh di-mulut Sungai Prai itu, dan jalan dan jambatan kereta itu sa-belah darat sadikit tempat yang terus dan tidak banyak belanja membena itu.
Berkenaan dengan pertanyaan Yang Berhormat fasal Enche' Ong dari Sarawak, Termit~al Building Kuching atau pun Bangunan penumpang2 kapalterbang Kuching yang ipana banyak penum pang2 turun-naik, yang sa-benar-nya saya sudah mendesak beberapa kali tetapi oleh kerana kek:urangan wang, maka sementara ini kita besarkan bangunan itu sa-berapa daya yang boleh dan saya harap dalam Ran changan Lima Tahun ini.
barangkali, kalau dapat, di-masokkan elok-lah, kalau tidak ada pun kita akan desak lagi, tetapi walau macham mana pun tentang padang kapalterbang ini kita chukup jaga dan baikkan, panjang kan bila sampai waktu-nya akan lagi tiga empat ka-hadapan barangkali kita akan menggunakan jet yang lebeh besar daripada Comet 4.

Tetapi saya minta sabar-lah sementara yang boleh kita baiki ia-lah chara sadikit2, klta akan perbaiki-lah.
tahun dengan hendak Berkenaan dengan sahabat kita juga dari Sarawak yang bertanyakan ber kenaan lekaskan pembenaan padang kapalterbang Miri dan · Bintulu, yang sa-benar-nya sebab saya telah pergi sendiri tempat2 ini saya telah dapatkan peruntokan dan kedua2 padang kapalterbang ini Miri dahulu kemudian sambong Bintulu, supaya dua2 ,habis bersama, kemudian nanti Fokker Friendship · boleh ber pusing dari Kuching-Sibu, Miri Bintulu, Brunei.
Saya akan chuba sa-berapa daya, tetapi pada musim tidak boleh hujan, dapat di-jalankan dengan chara lekas.

Tetapi kita harap pada tahun 1966 sama !tda pertengahan tahun atau pun awal atau pun akhir akan siap kerja2 itu~ akan berhubong-lah dengan Saya Pejabat Kerja.

Raya yang menjalankan kerja2 itu.

tentu-lah kerja Berkenaan dengan padang kapal" terbang Sibu, bangunan penumpang2, Yang Berhormat tadi telah berchakap, ini juga kita akan perbaiki dan mem besarkan ini lebeh kurang kekurangan wang.
Yang mustahak ini ia-lah sudah minta untok memperbaiki supaya Fokker Friendship dapat pergi ka-sana.

landasan-nya $130,000 kita - tetapi tambah sahaja Berkenaan dengan Sungai Baram; saya baharu minta peruntokan-nya hendak lagi.

Maka tentu-lah kerja ini kalau ·pun baharu mula report-nya belum-lah boleh.

lagi segera sempun'l.a.

Maka saya dapat laporan2 itu, saya akan berhubong dengan Yang Bl'rhonnat2 itu.

·Maka jawapan2 ini sahaja-lah dengan rengkas-nya, saya uchapkan terima kaseh.
sa-berapa Dato' Ling Beng Siew: Mr Chair man, Sir, the Honourable Minister has not answered my proposal.

I have 2497 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2498 inviting asked the Minister whether the Govern ment would consider the Brunei Government to participate in this Kuala Baram deep water port.

Because Sungei Baram is the boundary for both countries, it is worthwhile to consider inviting the Brunei Govern ment to participate in this project.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Baji Jobir: Mr Chairman, Sir, I am taking a note of that.
We have to communicate to the Sarawak Government which has got this project.

We are helping it.

Though the overall port policy is my responsibility, this port is under the State Government of Sarawak.

I will certainly raise this matter with the State Government.

Enche' Stephen Yong Koet Tze: Mr Chairman, Sir, I raised a point just now about the Baram Port too.

I asked what was the nature of this investigation and whether the Minister could tell us something about it.
Dato' Baji Sardon bin Baji Jobir: Mr Chairman, Sir, I spoke too fast just now in Malay, and so he could not follow.

I did say that I was just asking for an additional provision and that shows that the work is just about to start; and as soon as the report is completed, we will certainly communi cate to all Honourable Members who are interested.

Question put, and agreed to.


The sum of $2,000,000 for Head 146, the sum of $2,291 for Head 147, the sum of $400,000 for Head 177, the sum of $7,100 for Head 198 and the sum of $630,000 for Head 199 agreed to the Development stand part of (Supplementary) (No.

2) Estimates, 1965.
2) Estimates, 1965.

Question put, and resolved, That an additional sum not exceed ing $42,865,942 be expended out of the Development Fund in respect of the financial year 1965, and that, to meet the purposes of the Heads and Sub-Heads set out in the second column of the Statement laid on the Table as Command Paper No.

38 of 1965, there be appropriated the sums specified opposite such Heads and Sub-Heads the 8th and 9th columns thereof.

House resumed.
House resumed.

in Dr Ng Kam Poh: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee has considered the motion referred to and has agreed to it.

I accordingly move that the motion standing in the name of the Minister of Finance be agreed to.

Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jobir: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

Question put, and agreed to.


Resolved, That an additional sum not exceed ing $42,865,942 be expended out of the Development Fund in respect of the financial year 1965 and that to meet the purposes of the Heads and Sub-Heads set out in the second column of the Statement laid on the Table as Command Paper No.

38 of 1965, the there be appropriated sum specified opposite such Heads and Sub-Heads in the 8th and 9th columns thereof.
BILL THE RUBBER RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF MALAYA BILL Second Reading Dr Lim Swee Aon: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that a Bill entitled "an Act to provide for the reconstitu tion of the Rubber Research Institute of Malaya and for matters incidental thereto" be now read a second time.

Honourable Members will recall that in 1962 this House passed the Rubber Research Institute of Malaya Act, 1962.
This Act was introduced in order to reconstitute the Institute after its long existence, which dated back to 1926, and to bring it into line with the major reorganisation of the Rubber Research units carried out in 1962 and financed by the Malayan Rubber Fund Board.
The Institute is charged with the responsibility of carrying out research 2499 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2500 investigations and into ways and means of increasing the efficiency of natural rubber production and improv ing the presentation and equality of natural rubber for export.

It has a Board which is responsible for finan cial and administrative policies.
In its research activities, it is subject to the direction and control of the Malayan Rubber Fund Board, which provides it with funds from the research cess collected on rubber exports.

the Director Although the existing Act has brought about a great improvement in the administration and technical operations of the Institute, it has been found that it contains some minor weaknesses and inconsistencies which sometimes led to difficulties in its administration.
For instance, under the existing Act, the Director of the Institute is also at the same time the Chairman of the Board of the Institute.

This role of the Chief Executive Officer and Chairman should really be separate because of the loyalties and possible conflict of responsibilities attached to the offices of the Director of the Institute and the Chairman of the Board of the Institute.
As is an employee of the Board of the Institute and the Chief Executive Officer is responsible for his day-to-day adminis tration, it is inappropriate for him to officiate as Chairman of the Board of the Institute, in which capacity he would have to exercise judiciously the role of balancing the interests of the Institute and its employees on the one hand, and those of the Institute Board and the Malayan Rubber Fund Board on the other.
In order to remove this irregularity, it is proposed that the Controller of Rubber Research, who is also the Chairman of the Malayan Rubber Fund Board, should be the Chairman of the lnstitute's Board.

At the same time, this proposed change will promote closer liaison between the Institute and its Board on the one hand and the Malayan Rubber Fund Board, on the other.

With this proposed change, the Director of the Institute will however remain a member of the Institute's Board.
its parent body, the existing Further, under law.

although there is provision for a person to be appointed to act as Director of the Institute, when the substantive Director is on leave or on overseas duty, there is no such provision to cover periods during which the post of Director is vacant, as, for example, between the date of resignation of the Director and that of the appointment of his replacement.
It is now proposed to introduce provisions which will enable the appointment of a person to act as Director during such periods.

Besides this provision, there are other provisions in the existing Act which need to be amended so as to harmonise the relationship between the Institute and its Board on the one hand and the Malayan Rubber Fund Board on the other.

From the drafting and presenta tion point of view.


it would be easier to repeal the existing Rubber Research Institute Act of 1962 and re-enact it as a new piece of legislation, incorporating all the basic provisions of the Act of 1962 amendments now proposed.

and the to none Sir, I would like to add that the Rubber Research Institute of Malaya is today acknowledged as one of the world's leading institutions in rubber research.
Through the skill, initiative and perserverance of its staff, the Institute has been able to build up, over the years, a fund of scientific knowledge of rubber research which is second the wotld.

Its in scientific and technical officers have made notable contributions, not only in international scientific forums but also to industry and commerce the world over.
With the rapid changes in the present position of the rubber industry, as a result of the phenomenal expansion of rubber industry, both the Government and the Industry are keenly aware of the need for rubber research to proceed with the utmost vigour in the natural rubber producers' art to maintain a fair share of the world's expanding demand for new rubber.
It is in the light of this need that this Bill has been presented before this House with a view of strengthening and increasing further the the synthetic 2501 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2502 efficiency of the Rubber Research Institute which is, and will be, a vital research organisation for the survival of the natural rubber industry in this country.

Sir, I beg to move.

The Minister of Lands and Mines (Enche' Abdnl-Rahman bin Ya'kub): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to second the motion.
Dr Tan Chee K.hoon (Batu): Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak on what the Honourable Minister of Commerce and Industry has said is a very important piece of legislation.

But, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am-I would not say amazed-indeed surprised that at long last the the Minister himself and Government have awakened to the fact that there are irregularities and anoma lies in the Bill that was enacted before, in 1962.
Mr Speaker, Sir, none other than the Minister of Commerce and Industry has stated that this Institute was started in 1926 and that it was thought fit to enact a Bill in 1962 to, perhaps, correct some of the irregularities, iniquities and a~omalies that had been perpetuated by the colonial regime.
Hence, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am indeed surprised that in 1962, presumably, it was the same Alliance Government in existence then, did not think it fit to remove this colonial vestige and cut it out from the body of the R.R.I.

Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister.

in introducing this Bill, stated that it was inappropriate for the Director of the R.R.I.

to sit as Chairman of the R.R.I.

Board.

Then he went on to say that it was an irregularity.
~ow, if we look at the Explanatory Note-let us see what the Legal Draftsman has got to say-it says: "The present constitution of the Board of the Insitute is that its Director is the Chair man of the Board, and, thus, two offices are being amalgamated into one and held by one and the same person, that is, as Chairman of the Board he is concerned with the formulation of policies, and as its the principal executive Director, who officer of the Institute he is concerned with implementation of those policies.
This state of affairs to be an anomaly which makes it difficult for the is considered is to Institute Rubber Research function efficiently because of the possible conflict of loyalties and responsibilities attached to the offices of the Director of the Institute and the Chairman of the Board of the Institute.
to be Hence, is passed in order to eliminate this anomaly"- described by the Minister presumably as irregularity- this Bill required "by providing for the appointment of the Controller of Rubber research as Chairman of the Board and the Director of the Institute as an ex-officio member.".

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is indeed surprising that, with Malayanisation and all that, this anomaly-since way back .
in 1962-was not the powers that be in 1962, and it took them three long years to awaken them this selves as irregularity, this conflict of loyalties.

thought of by this anomaly, to Mr Speaker, Sir, to carry this argu ment to its logical conclusion, I would say that the Director of the R.R.I.

should not be on the Board itself, because, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Director is an employee of the Board and at the same time he is an employer by virtue of the fact that he is a member of the Board.
Now, this is a thing-I do not know whether it has occured to the Honourable the Minister of Commerce and Industry-where in this country, perhaps, under the Alliance set-up, you can have such an Alice in Wonderland set-up-a person is both employer and employee by virtue of the fact that he as Director of is an employee of the Board.
I admit that it was ludicrous to make him the Chair man of the Board but it is equally ludicrous to make him a member of the Board, because in the Explanatory Note it says that he implements the policies of the Board and he also has a hand in the formulation of policies.

Mr Speaker, Sir, this new piece of that Legislation does not anomaly.

He still has a hand in the formulation of policies and he, as Director of the R.R.I.

carries out the policies-he the chief executive officer of the R.R.I.

the R.R.I.
the R.R.I.

remove is Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to press the Government, if they should want to carry their logic to its logical conclusion, to remove the Director of 2503 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2504 R.R.I.

from the Board, because then he will not have a hand in the formula tion of policies, because then he will not be both an employer and an employee of the Board.
I do not know whether such things have struck the Minister of Commerce and Industry, or that is a peculiar make-up of such a quasi-Government body of the Alliance Government.

is that Mr Speaker, Sir, another thing which I would like to bring to the attention of the Ministers the Minister have mouthed a great deal about Malayanisation.

What has the Govern ment done to Malayanise this very important post of the Director of the R.R.I.?
Mr Speaker, Sir, in drawing the attention of the Minister to this important aspect, he knows, as well as we know, that there are sufficient people in this country to be in the "driver's" seat and to guide the destinies of the R.R.I., unless the Minister and the Government say or admit that there are no Malaysians capable of being the Director of the R.R.I.
I just want to bring to the attention of the Minister the that another research institute, Institute of Medical Research, the I.M.R., is fully Malayanised and its standards have not fallen and its inter national reputation is just as great.
I also want to bring to the attention of the Minister, if he does not know himself, ·that many a time Malaysians with the requisite· qualifications have gone, have been reluctantly taken on as employees as Division I officers in the R.R.I., and I do know of one chap at least, who, having gone there and worked there, found the atmosphere so stifling that he had to get out.
thing is, Mr Speaker, Sir-I do not know whether the Minister knows that-that it is true that many of the expatriate officers of the R.R.I.
have the requisite qualifica tions, have the requisite experience to do research down there, but that is not true of all of them, and many a Malaysian with the requisite qualifica tions, requisite experience, have gone there and, as I said, having found that the atmosphere is so stifling, they have left the place but without Another the saying, "We cannot do work here, because only orang putehs are in the driver's seat and they do not give us the chance to do the things that we want".
That is a matter, Mr Speaker, Sir, that I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister.

Now, in saying this, I 'do not for one moment advocate that we must sack all these expatriate officers.

Research, I hope the expatriates will realise it, is not a prerogative of the orang putehs.

Gone are the days when they can say: "Oh!

I come from Cambridge, you know, what do you think?

You come from Singapore, from Kuala Lumpur, what can you do?"
Now, they cannot take that attitude because research is universal and international, and to that extent I would say all our chaps, given the opportunity.

will prove as good researchers as any one from the West.

Well, as we know, Noble Prize winners come not only from the West: they also come from the East-India, Japan are examples.

the opportunity, there may well come a Malaysian from the R.R.I., who may well win a Noble Prize for this country that is if he is given a chance.
Conse quently, Mr Speaker, Sir, I do hope that into consideration that, when local officers are appointed they should be given a chance to do the piece of work they are trained for, and unless they are given a chance, Mr Speaker, Sir, how can they gain experience?

I do hope, given the Minister will the R.R.I.. take to Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not want to go to the other extreme, as I said before, to say that we must sack all the expatriates and fill up all the posts in the R.R.I.
with Malaysians, because that would be going to the other extreme-to jump from one extreme to the other extreme will be totally wrong.

As I stated before, research is universal and international and, if we only have local people, it will lead to inbreathing which will sound the death knell of research in any institute that concen trates on research.

I commend the idea, Mr Speaker, Sir, of an exchange of officers.
We welcome expatriates to come here to work for a certain time_ 2505 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2506 into this very to do certain research projects and, perhaps, we can learn from them and they, if they are honest, will say that they can learn from us, and this inter· marriage of ideas, of skills, will go a long way towards further enhancing the quality of work of the R.R.I.

and international reputation of the R.R.I.


Mr Speaker, Sir, there are certain other anomalies as is stated in this Explanatory Note, that have not been touched on by the Minister-I refer to the question of housing.

On one occa· sion, when I asked whether there was a policy on housing for the staff of the R.R.I., I was told there was no policy.

Now, I hope that the R.R.I.


is an instituti-On that will expand, as it should expand, if we are to carry on with research important industry-in fact, it is indeed the life· blood of this country and, consequently, its employees should be decently research housed, officers down there.
Unfortunately, in times past, perhaps, as a relic of the colonial era, the orang putehs had the choice, they had all the houses and perhaps some of their houses are better than some of the Ministers' houses, way up in Jalan Ampang, and they occupy all the houses.

Not only that, but when they go on leave they rent out the houses, may be, to friends or to others, perhaps, with the approval of the Board.
This is a practice, Mr Speaker, Sir, that I would like here to draw the attention of the Minister to-that in the matter of housing there should be no distinction between the local and foreign and expatriate officers.

particularly the Another thing, to which I would like to draw the attention of the Minister, is whether the expatriates, as such, are receiving an expatriate allowance in the R.R.I.

If they are, then, I think that is yet another anomaly that should be eradicated.
This expatriate allowance is an abominable term and disting· uishes between a chap whose skin is white and a chap whose skin is yellow or brown, but both of them are doing the same work.

In the University of Malaya, we have got rid of this term "expatriates", we abominable have treated all officers alike.
The work in the University is pretty much the same as that in the R.R.I.. only that in the University, the officers, the teachers there, in addition to research, do a great deal of teaching, but yet we have managed to solve that odius term "expatriate" and the equally odius term "expatriation allowance".

Mr Speaker, Sir, I commend these ideas and suggestions to the Minister.

May I reiterate once again: (1) Remove the Director.
If you want to carry this explanation to its logical conclusion, if you want to carry out your own explanation to its logical explanation, remove the Director from the Board, because he cannot be both an employer and an employee; he cannot be participating in the policies and yet implementing the policies.

(2) Take note of this question of local officers finding the atmosphere in the R.R.I.

stifling at times and thereby leaving it.


On the other hand, we do need, not expatriates but foreign officers coming to do research in this Institution.

And, finally, Mr Speaker, Sir, I commend the idea that there should be more equitable treatment not only of the higher grades of officers in the R.R.1., but the lower grades as well.

For, as the Minister knows, a year or two ago, there was a fair bit of industrial unrest and there was a talk of strike as well.
in there exists such a Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to begin by saying that I was greatly struck by the the Honourable speech made by Member for Batu.

That shows the slight difference the political attitudes of his Party and ourselves, because thing as a managerial/executive class which happens to be both employer and employee or employee and employer.
However, I do feel that in this parti· cular the employer or the Director who is concerned more with the processes either of administration or of research, it might be very difficult largely because is the employee instance, 2507 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2508 for him to function as an administrator as well as a research director and these two factors probably are very rarely associated in any one person.
(i) research Under this Bill, I wish to refer particularly to the composition of the Board of the Institute, which comes under Clause 4, because from there I think we can look into the whole set-up of the Bill and the intention as laid down by the Honourable Minister.
I note, Sir, with some degree of regret and a very great degree of concern that, in drafting this Bill, the Govern ment has not taken into consideration the fact that since independence, parti cularly since Malaysia, and especially since the Honourable Minister himself the office of Minister of assumed Commerce and Industry, there has been continued improvement and growth in our local industries.
Therefore, I say that, whilst it is correct for us to preserve the two original motivations of research in the Rubber Research Institute-namely, into production and (ii) research into the methods of processing rubber-I think at this present moment we do require in this country a further extension of our objectives by promoting research into the use of rubber in the various products that can be· developed for industrial purposes, i.e., we should be able to compete with the rest of the world for new ideas for the further use of rubber, and probably the results of this research could be palmed off to our own industries.
For that purpose, I feel that at least provision should be made in this Clause for representation particularly from the manufacturers associations, especially from those who are concerned with rubber products, to be on this Board.
It may well be that, whilst the Honourable Minister is worried synthetics, our research workers may win a Nobel Prize, as the Honourable Member for Batu said, because not only do we suffer competition from synthetics but we also suffer competition from oral contraceptives; and it may well be that.
if research from the point of view of further development and utilisation of rubber could find ways about and means whereby rubber could be ingested to serve its own purposes and other purposes, we could further improve upon the living conditions in this world and contribute largely to the stability of the world population explosion.
from involve the definition of However, going away this rather lighter note, I do feel that the Honourable Member for Batu has stressed a very important point, namely, the encouragement of a growing body of interest amongst our academicians, particularly amongst our young bio-chemists, chemists, physicists, in the use of rubber.

This particular fairly close scheme would relationships between the Rubber Research Institute and the University of Malaya, particularly with the Faculty of Science.
I do maintain, Sir, that although rubber is such a very important industry with us, the general the general body of opinion and knowledge that prevails among Malay sians with regard to rubber, which is their most important product, is very limited.

For example, from a lot of people the word "rubber" itself would produce very interesting responses if it was put on a mass survey.
Very few people, for example, understand that one of the major problems in rubber research is the composition of the latex and the peculiar structure of the rubber mole cule and the liquid in which it is carried on, and I believe much of the international research that is being carried out just revolves on the struc ture and the chemistry and even the bio-chemistry of the latex itself.
But the general population of this country, and the school children in this country, have little knowledge of the tremendous importance of rubber and that, for example, the concept of the rubber molecule has a place in international research.

The Honourable Minister of Commerce and Industry, who happens to be a member of the same profession as myself, understands that the rubber molecule is a standard measure for another aspect of important research.
namely, virus research, and he also knows that virus and bacteria research 2509 l3 NOVEMBER 1965 2510 has got important correlations with the production of latex, because the rate of fermentation and the flow of rubber from the tree and infection from the cuts on the bark of the tree, all these biological processes, are all involved.
I mention this in general because there should be a widespread interest amongst the people and the students of our country about rubber, so that in the end we would get ~t the apex a growing group of local men who are highly are and who specialised in rubber research.

interested to It is true, Sir, that the reports emanating from the Rubber Research Institute have received world-wide attention from many scientific fields.
However, it is true that a lot of these reports and a lot of the scientific research have been conducted and produced by men who had come from abroad, especially to study the problems of rubber; but the number of our own local men, Malaysians, who are interested in rubber research, is very, very limited indeed, and there this should be stimulus given research.

So, there should be a two-way relationship the Rubber between Research Institute and the Faculty of Science.
Whether it would be better to provide for a member of the R.R.I.

to sit on the University Council, or for the University to have a representative on the Board of the R.R.I.

should, I think, be a matter to be considered by the Honourable Minister.

But I think these growing numbers of research workers in the Institute must be maintained.
We know, Sir, at least of one man who graduated from the Chung Ling High School and went to Imperial College, London, acquired high distinctions in rubber technology and who eventually was "snapped up" by a foreign industrial concern for research in rubber in their own country.

And I think we should tap such areas to bring back our best and our most advanced research workers into our own Institute.
From that point of view, I do not entirely share the view of Honourable Member for Batu about the question of expat riate officers or otherwise, particularly the when they are involved in research, because research work is international, science is international, and it bas got that the no barriers; anci I hope Honourable Minister will provide for absolutely equal facilities in research, no matter where the man comes from, provided his work is contributory to the benefit of our country.
the sending abroad of However, I commend the remarks made by the Honourable Member for Batu that there should be exchange research programmes between ourselves these foreign countries, and and exchange programmes should be based by local Malaysian workers to foreign countries and the need, Sir, is not maintained only at the level of academic research workers.
Even the the Laboratory Assistants, in a research group, I think, would benefit greatly if they had the opportunity of foreign study in such an exchange problem.
technicians, Sir, coming back to and summarising what I have brought up for the Honourable the Minister, I feel, Sir, it would be a good thing that the constitution of the Board should include members from manufacturers and those industries, particularly, related with rubber products, that it should include representatives from the Faculty of Science of the University and that the programme of research should extend further to include what is generally termed rubber research, or research into technology for the consumption of products.
ada-Iah menyokong Enche' Ahmad bin Arshad (Moar Utara): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya dan bangun mengalu2kan Rang Undang2 Pusat Penyelidekan Getah Malaya bagi di-susun sa-mula.

Saya tidak dapat menerima atas uchapan yang di-buat oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dari Batu dan Tanjong baharu sa-bentar tadi, berhubong kechaman-nya kapada pegawai2 Penyelidekan Getah di-masa yang lalu.

Bagi pehak saya tahniah dan ada-lah menguchapkan kepujian kapada mereka yang bekerja dalam badan ini.
Sebab saya nampak, daripada Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan 2511 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2512 kehasilan-natijah-penyelidekan ini menjadi nyawa ekonomi negara kita, demikian juga memberi ketentuan mewah meleset-nya taraf hidup ra'ayat di-negeri kita, terutama sa-kali bagi pekebun2 kechil.

Dari Pusat Penyeli dekan ini, bagi pehak ra'ayat dan saya juga boleh memberi kesimpulan bagi menghadapi perlawanan getah tiruan dengan getah asli.
Tiga sumber yang saya dapat terangkan kapada baik-nya Lembaga yang telah berjalan dahulu, dan saya harap bertambah baik-nya dengan ada-nya penyusunan baharu ini, ia-itu badan telah menelorkan dengan mendapat getah baka yang baik dan segera bo1eh di-toreh.

ini Yang kedua meninggikan mutu pengeluaran getah kapada pekebun2 kechil.

Yang ketiga menjadikan getah satu bahan yang di-perlukan oleh sa-genap manusia tiap2 hari dalam pembangunan dunia ini.
ia-itu Daripada yang pertama tadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ingin mendapat penjelasan daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri yang berkenaan ia-itu Pusat Penyelidekan yang lalu telah beroleh satu kejayaan, telah dapat mengeluarkan satu baka getah yang baik dan boleh di-toreh dalam masa 3!

tahun.

Kira-nya betul atas apa yang saya chakapkan ini, saya mengharap kan supaya baka2 ini di-perluaskan kapada pekebun2 kechil, tidak hanya terbatas kapada ladang2 besar sahaja.
Yang kedua saya memuji J abatan ini sangat giat pada meninggikan pengeluaran mutu getah pekebun2 kechil dengan mendirikan Pusat Mena kong, Memeras dan Mengasap Getah.

Di-kampong2 dan di-mukim2, kerana kehasilan pemberian ini dapat mem berikan mutu getah di-kampong2 itu, satu jenis yang baik, harga yang sama dengan getah2 yang di-keluarkan oleh ladang2 besar.

Usaha ini sangat di-puji oleh ra'ayat.


Saya mengharapkan perkembangan ini dapat di-perluaskan lagi pada masa yang akan datang, terutama sa-kali saya meminta supaya di-perluaskan dalam negara kita di-Malaysia Timor, lawatan sebab pada waktu dalam saya ka-Sabah dan ka-Sarawak, saya pemah melihat mutu getah pekebun2 kechil di-sana sangat rendah.

Satu keping bo!eh dapat dalam empat atau lima kati.
Mereka tidak meng gunakan press, kadang2 mereka pakai pijak, manakala di-jual di-pasar, harga-nya 40 sen sa-kati berbanding dengan getah yang baik boleh sampai 70 sen. tidor getah, Pada akhir-nya, Tuan Yang di Pertua, ranchangan yang di-sambut baik oleh ra'ayat ini, saya nampak manusia mahu tiap2 hari-semua lapisan-sama ada lapisan tinggi, rendah, kanak2, hari2 mahu ingat getah; dudok getah, berjalan getah, makan pun getah.
Apa yang saya maksudkan, "makan getah", ia-lah alat meja yang kita gunakan hari2 itu, di-buat daripada getah.

Tidor getah, apa yang saya maksudkan dengan ia-lah orang2 sekarang telah bermegah dengan tidor di-atas Dunlop Pillow, tetapi, malang nya getah Dunlop Pillow, di-buat di Malaysia ini, di-jual pula dengan harga yang mahal.
Jadi, bagi pehak ra'ayat jelata, kalau boleh, Kementerian ini berunding dengan sharikat kilang per usahaan yang membuat Dunlop Pillow itu daripada alat2 tempat tidor dan alat tempat dudok supaya harga-nya di., murah sadikit supaya dapat seluroh ra'ayat jelata merasa macham mana kesedapan tidor, dudok di-atas tilam Dunlop Pillow itu.

Satu perkara yang saya nampak yang patut berhubong dengan banyak nya getah dalam Malaysia ini.

Dalam negeri ini supaya di-adakan satu kilang perusahaan membuat minyak tar.
Minyak tar ini memang di-gunakan di Malaysia dan akan di-gunakan oleh negara2 yang baharu munchol bagi membaiki jalan raya dalam negeri itu.

Dengan itu, saya fikir, Badan Penyeli dekan baharu ini akan bertambah lagi mutu-nya di-sisi pandangan dunia.

Sekian-Iah sahaja, terima kaseh.

Enche' Abu Dakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dengan izin tuan saya masok champor sadikit perbahathan berkenaan atas Bill dengan Pusat Penyelidekan Getah.
Tuan Yang ini di-Pertua, Bill 2513 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2514 tidak sudut kalau di-pandang dari segi undang2-nya, lebeh daripada hendak menukar pegawai ia-itu yang dahulu-nya menjadi pegawai yang ber jawatan-nya Director dan pada masa itu juga dia merupakan sa-orang Chairman.

Jadi erti-nya dua jawatan di-pikul oleh orang sa-orang.
Jadi sebab-nya maka Bill ini di-kemukakan ia-lah hendak memansokhkan amalan meletakkan dua jawatan pada sa-orang pegawai, dengan alasan bahawa dua jawatan di-pikul oleh orang sa-orang itu telah menimbulkan bermacham2 kesulitan, ia-itu ada pehak pentadbiran tidak mahu mengikut pehak yang membuat policy.

Jadi tidak ada ta'at di-antara dua jabatan itu, pada hal yang hendak menghukumkan ta'at tidak ta'at itu orang-nya sa-orang.
Jadi ter paksa-lah dia kena ada dua fail, dua meja ia-itu: satu sa-bagai ketua di-situ membawa keputusan pehak ini tidak ta'at kapada qia dan dia pula tulis pula, saya sudah bacha dan saya memerentah bagini.

Ini-lah chara-nya undang2 yang berlaku sekarang ini.

Itu-lah tujuan yang hendak di-buat Bill ini.

saya Di-sini supaya sokong-lah, bukan sahaja Bill ini, Bill2 lain pun kalau di-bawa yang-banyak-lah ada per kara macham ini, chepat-lah sadikit di-bawa jangan berchapok banyak sangat.
Tetapi yang saya ter tarek bukan-lah dari segi itu sahaja ia-itu dari segi faedah yang ra'ayat jelata akan dapat, daripada Board atau pun Lembaga, yang hendak kita akan adakan ini.

tujuan Yang pertama, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, tujuan kita mengadakan penyelidekan atau penyiasatan ini ada-lah hen~ak mempertinggikan mutu getah klta.
Tetapi satu perkara yang kita hendak fikir ia-lah, kerja2 research yang di-buat sa-mata2 hendak dengan mengetahui mutu getah itu dari segi Scientific dan Academic-nya sahaja, keputusan di-hasilkan itu tidak dapat di-bawa untok di-amalkan kapada orang2 yang mengamalkan menoreh getah dan pekerja2 berkenaan dengan getah'.

Jadi jauh bedza-nya dudok pokok2 getah yang di-tanam sa-mata2 untok maksud research dengan pokok2 getah yang di-tanam untok di-toreh, hendak menchari makan sa-hari dua.
Jauh bedza-nya dudok-nya di-dalam perkara ini.

Jadi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, dalam hendak menchari keuntongan daripada getah yang di-kerjakan oleh ra'ayat, sa-bagai satu mata-pencharian, dengan getah2 yang kita hidupkan atau kita tanam dengan maksud research sa-mata2, maka Lembaga ini di kemukakan ka-dalam Dewan ini.

Yang kita nampak di-sini kesan yang akan terkandong kapada ia-lah timbul, Clause No.
4 ia-itu Perlembagaan Lembaga ini sendiri yang di-dalam mana ada-lah di-lantek ada empat, lima jenis pegawai2 yang akan men jalankan tugas ini.

J adi, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, satu perkara yang juga ia-itu Lembaga Penyiasat Getah ini ia-lah satu perbadanan yang berjalan dengan wang daripada satu Perbadanan yang lain.

Jadi Perbadanan hidup di-atas satu Perbadanan yang lain, kemudian di-serah kapada kuasa Parlimen untok membuat peratoran.
Oleh kerana Badan ini hidup dengan wang satu Badan yang lain maka teroaksa-lah kita ntemberi peluang kapacia kuasa2 yang lain untok melantek pegawai2, sa-kurang2-nya saperti mana tersebut dalam 'F', yang empat orang itu.

Jadi Badan yang memberi wang kapada R.R.I.

ini, kita tidak tahu Badan mana, tetapi dapat kita faham bahawa tentu Persatuan Producers Council-Majlis Pengeluaran Getah.
J adi dapat kita chium bahu-nya di-situ ia-itu orang yang membiayai: atau pun memberi wang kapada Badan ini ia-lah Majlis Pengeluaran Getah-Rubber Producers Council.

Kalau pun tidak dia sudah tentu dia mempunya1 pengaroh di-situ.
Tuan Yang di-Pertua, di-sini-lah sudut yang saya merasa bimbang ia-itu, rasa bimbang tidak-lah sampai macham orang churi kapalterbang tadi, kurang-lah sadikit-sampai Menteri itu takut, ia-itu apabila kita minta recommend atau nasehat atau pun sokongan daripada Majlis Penge luaran Getah ini, tentu-lah mereka itu memberi orang2 yang business minded, dia tidak akan memberi orang yang academic.
Saya bersetuju dengan beberapa perkara yang di-kemukakan (Ketawa), 2515 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2516 oleh pehak Tanjong tadi, dia juga sa-bagai sa-orang yang tahu dalam Science saperti mana juga Menteri kita sekarang ini tahu masaalah Science dan research di-segi kemia itu, ia-itu patut-lah di-tentukan di-dalam 'F' atau pun kita buboh la'gi satu 'G' ia-itu beberapa orang pegawai yang tahu dalam masaalah kemia dan science daripada University atau pun orang2 luar negeri.
Saya lebeh bersetuju lagi kalau sa-kira-nya Menteri Perdagangan kita ini dapat berusaha supaya orang2 yang akan menjadi ahli di-dalam Lembaga ini, dapat kita memberikan orang2 yang expert orang2 yang tahu betul2 dalam perkara 'ilmu itu.

Waiau pun dia daripada orang2 luar negeri.


Di-sini kita rasa-nya penting orang2 yang bijak-pandai daripada luar negeri untok bekerja di-dalam negara kita, walau pun mithal-nya bila kita fikirkan patut, menjadikan orang itu sa-bagai warga-negara di-sini, kerana dia tolong membuat kerja2 bagi ra'ayat kita ini, tidak-lah sa-bagaimana orang yang kita hendak ambil menjadi Duta, bagitu sahaja menjadi warga-negara di-sini.
Siapa pun boleh buat kerja-banyak Members of Parliament yang boleh menjadi Duta, tetapi jarang Members of Parliament ini yang boleh membuat kerja research yang sa-macham ini.

Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya ada banyak perkara tulis di-sini tetapi saya pun bukan rubber expert, nanti saya berchakap pula ada sahabat saya Menteri-yang passed Law-dia tanya legal term pula, bagitu bagini akan menyusahkan saya.

Tidak ada lagi, Tuan Yang habis-lah (Ketawa).

di-Pertua.

Enche' Mohd.


Ynsof bin Mahmud (Temerloh): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya hendak berchakap sadikit sahaja dalam Rang Undang2 ini.

Yang per tama saya rasa patut sangat-lah Rang Undang2 ini di-adakan dan di-jalankan dengan serta-merta.

Kerana perjalanan R.R.I.

yang sudah tidak sesuai lagi sa-bagaimana penerangan yang telah di-laporkan oleh Menteri kita.
Saya rasa tugas yang besar dari pada badan ia-lah dua: Yang pertama membolehkan memberi nase hat kapada pekebun2 yang ada di-tanah lama ini itu ' ' ' J • ayer kita ini dalam hal berkenaan keadaan dengan bertanaman getah dan sa-bagai-nya.

Maka research atau pun penyelidekan dalam perkara ini sangat2 mustahak.
Sebab saya katakan bagitu kita tidak akan dapat menghasilkan, memberi faedah yang besar daripada mengambil bahagian yang berat dalam bertanam getah ini, jikalau research2 itu tidak boleh memberi nasehat2 kapada pekebun2 yang suka hendak masok dalam tanaman getah ini.
Sebab saya katakan bagitu, di-negeri Pahang pada masa ini kita sedang giat meng galakkan orang2 luar bandar bertanam getah dan saya perchaya Badan ini boleh memberi nasehat supaya getah2 yang sesuai yang economic sahaja yang boleh dapat di-tanam.

Tetapi malang nya pada masa yang lampau saya perhatikan maseh lagi colone2 atau sa umpama-nya colone stump maseh lagi di-galakkan, pada hal daripada re search2 yang telah di-buat oleh Badan ini yang perkara itu tidak sesuai lagi.
Jadi patut, rasa saya nasehat2 daripada Badan ini mesti di-ikuti oleh pehak2 yang menasehatkan kapada pekebun2 yang mesti menggunakan basil daripada siasatan Badan ini supaya anak2 getah itu sahaja yang boleh di-tanam.
ini Yang kedua-nya Badan juga bertanggong-jawab supaya getah2 kita ini dapat di-siasat, di-gunakan bagi faedah besar, bagaimana kita telah dengar tadi banyak Ahli2 sudah ber chakap, tetapi saya rasa maseh lagi peluang itu luas, tetapi saya meminta, terutama sa-kali Badan2 ini mesti-lah terdiri daripada anak2 negeri ini sendiri yang mahu memajukan di-dalam per kara ini.
Pada masa yang telah sudah, saya perhatikan, Ketua2 Pejabat ini bukan daripada anak negeri ini dari pada expatriate, daripada orang luar negeri, yang memandang chuma faedah2 pekebun2 daripada bangsa mereka itu sendiri.

lni-lah rasa saya tugas yang besar yang patut basil daripada pem baharuan daripada Bill ini akan menelorkan faedah 2 yang akan mem beri faedah besar kapada negeri kita, tidak bagi faedah besar bagi mereka2 yang chuma hendak menanam modal dalam negeri ini.
2517 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2518 ini Rasa saya daripada perkara yang pertama, saya kata tadi, untok her· tanam anak2 getah tadi, saya berasa belum-lah puas hati daripada negeri Pahang.

Sebab saya kata bagitu, dalam negeri Pahang pekebun2 kechil ada lebeh kurang 70,000 ekar tanah yang chuma lebeh kurang 40% sahaja yang mengambil peluang yang ber tanam sa-mula mendapat nasihat2 dari· pada Badan2 ini.

Ada-kah mereka itu tidak memperchayai lagi hasil daripada nasihat mereka ini atau pun tidak.
belum-lah lagi saya dapat tahu.

Jadi rasa saya, jikalau mereka2 perchaya daripada penyelidekan dan hasil penye lidekan daripada Badan saya perchaya, yang lebeh 60% itu tadi akan mengambil bahagian supaya mengambil peluang nasihat2 daripada hasil dari pada Badan Penyelidekan ini tadi.

J adi saya rasa belum-lah boleh saya menga takan berpuas hati kerana semenjak tahun 1960 hingga masa ini daripada 70,000 ekar peke bun kechil maka 45 % yang telah mengambil nasihat2 yang dapat daripada Badan ini.
Jadi saya rasa, sa-kali lagi mengalu2kan kapada Kerajaan atas usaha untok mengada kan Badan ini dengan tujuan hendak memperbaiki basil getah ini dan juga pekebun2 memperbaiki kechil supaya mengikut dan mendapat nasihat meninggikan lagi taraf mutu getah mereka untok mendapatkan pendapatan yang lebeh daripada masa sekarang.
kedudokan ini, Dato' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda: Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tidak-lah berchadang hendak mengambil baha· gian yang panjang dalam perbahathan atas Bill ini, saya berserta dengan kawan yang memberi perdangan-nya terhadap Bill ini.

Chuma berhubong dengan soal kedudokan R.R.I ini, saya hendak mengulangi, meminta penjelasan daripada Menteri Yang Berhormat tentang kedudokan Sekolah2 atau Pusat2 Latehan berkenaan dengan hal getah di-bawah Jabatan R.R.I.

ini.
ini.

Ada-nya Sekolah atau Pusat2 Latehan bagi R.R.I.

ini sangat-lah memberi faedah kapada pekebun2 kechil di seluroh tanah ayer kita ini dan telah memberikan hasil2 yang baik kapada lapangan pemuda2 di-dalam kita ia-lah kursus2 sa-lama pengantar sebab2-nya yang pekerjaan atau perusahaan hal getah ini.

Tetapi apa yang saya hendak tentang wujud-nya sebutkan baharu2 ini, satu Pusat Latehan Getah ini yang di-ajar melalui bahasa peng antar-nya bahasa China.
Sa-tahu saya dahulu tidak ada sekolah yang meng ajar perkara2 getah dengan melalui bahasa bahasa China.

Apa-kah dasar mengadakan Sekolah atau Pusat Latehan ini dengan meng· gunakan bahasa pengantar bahasa China itu sa-bagai satu dasar ·yang khusus di-buat bagi memberikan kemudahan kapada pemuda2 di-ka langan orang2 China, supaya mereka itu senang mendapat kursus2 dalam ini, atau pun apa perkara getah lain.
Sebab kah pada pandangan saya tidak-lah men jadi satu halangan kapada pemuda2, sa-lain daripada orang Melayu, untok perkara · getah mendapat melalui bahasa2 yang memang telah di-gunakan ini.

· Sa-bagai mithalan-nya, Pusat Latehan Getah di Padang Rengas, Perak, sa-lama2-nya dahulu menggunakan bahasa peng antar bahasa kebangsaan, akan tetapi mengikut saya faham, mulai sekarang telah pun di-gunakan bahasa China sa-bagai bahasa pengantar.
Saya per telah pun di-gunakan pagitu chaya dengan kerana saya sendiri mendapat tahu melalui: Radio Malaysia memberi I'klan kapada pemuda2 yang ingin mengambil kursus perkara getah ini boleh-lah memileh mana2 tempat yang mereka kehendaki dan satu daripada nya tempat ia-lah Padang Rengas yang menggunakan bahasa pengantar bahasa langkah saperti China.
Saya ini sangat-lah merugikan kapada ke dudokan negeri kita senditi yang sedang menuju kapada chita2 hendak mendaulatkan kebangsaan, bahasa hendak menjadi bahasa kebangsaan ini sa-bagai bahasa rasmi yang tunggal.

Kita tidak berapa masa lagi _sudah akan sampai pada tahun 1967, itu-lah tempoh bagi merasmikan bahasa ke bangsaan sa-bagai bahasa rasmi yang tunggal di-dalam seluroh perkhidmatan negara kita.
J adi yang menjadikan salah satu daripada Pusat Penyelidekan Getah ini dengan menggunakan bahasa rasa 2519 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2520 China sa-bagai bahasa pengantar, erti nya mengundorkan balek kebelakang jarum sejarah perjuangan untok men daulatkan bahasa kebangsaan itu sa-bagai bahasa rasmi yang tunggal.
Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, Sir, first let me explain that the Rubber Research Fund Board is a Board that derives its money from a research cess collected from every pound of rubber exported from this c~untry, whether it comes from a European Estate, a Malay Estate, a Chinese Estate or an Indian Estate.

All this money goes to a cess fund and is managed by the Malayan Rubber Fund Board Now, tQis Malayan Rubber Fund Board has under it many Divisions.
One of its two main purposes are research, and the other one is publicity and expansion in the sales of rubber in competition with synthetic rubber.

In the research side, the R.R.I.

is one of them only.

There is still another one in London, where the research is done on the uses of rubber, whereas in Kuala Lumpur here the R.R.I.
bases its research more on the basic researches, on the chemistry of the rubber, on the diseases of the tree and also on the production of newclones and improving the presentation of the product.
Sir, whilst it is true that research should not be limited to the "white" people or the "black" people or the "coloured" people-we accept that-it is rather difficult, as the pro fessional members know, to interest people to take up research, because not every professional man, who is a graduate of engineering or science, would take to research.

You must have something in you before you can go into research.
So, this problem of getting research officers is a problem throughout the whole world and not only in Malaysia.

Despite all that, we have proceeded with Malayanisation of the Rubber Research Institute and, today, I am pleased to say, that we have 24 Federal citizens, 12 Asians non-Federal citizens, compared to 21 expatriate officers, who are the research officers the Rubber Research Institute.
Sir, we have done a con siderable amount and we certainly in would welcome more of our local boys, local graduates, taking up research, but is something which must take this time and which it has been acknow ledged by our local officers in the R.R.I.

that it is not only acadamic qualifications but also experience that counts.
That is why, Sir, we have now gradually moved on to preparing a new scheme of service for the expatriate officers which has been agreed to by our Malaysian officers but this has still not yet been completed.

Sir, the Director of this important Research Institute has always been an officer of great research standing, acknowledged amongst the scientists in the world.

Therefore, it would be very retrograde if we now put in a Director who has not that image as has been created before.
Therefore, this question of whether or not the Director should be Malayanised would depend upon whether or not we have a man of that calibre.

that The Honourable Member for Batu the Director himself proposed should not be a member of the Board of the R.R.I.

Sir, that might be his line of thinking, but from our side we feel that the Director could serve a useful purpose in being a member of the Board, because the Board of the R.R.I.

only deals with the financing and the administration of the R.R.I.
; it has nothing to do with the research side of it and, following on to that, the proposal by the Honourable Member for Tanjong that a member of the University and a member of manufacturers should sit on the Board does not arise, because the research work, part of it, is being controlled by the Malayan Rubber Fund Board, a bigger body, which is being advised by an Advisory Committee of experts is being re where presented on the Committee, and the question of having a manufacturer on the Board is not necessary, because the research on the uses of rubber is not being done here but in another research body elsewhere.
the University Sir, the Honourable Member for Batu did say that he had 'hoped that this Bilf would contain provisions for 2521 ' 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2522 allowing housing schemes to be set up for its officers.
Sir, in my speech, I must apologise that I did not draw the attention of the House to Section 6 (4) which says: loans "The Board may grant for a specific purpose to any employee of the Board under such terms and conditions and subject to such qualifications and exceptions as the Malayan Rubber Fund Board may from time to time prescribe."

The object here is to permit the Board to make loans to its employees to build their own houses.
However, Sir, senior officers of the Board are now given free quarters, and there is no more distinction between an expatriate officer and a local officer, if he is one of the heads of the Divisions.

This question of expatriate allowance which sounds so abominable to the Honourable Member from Batu is this new being salary scale, which has been offered to the expatriate officers.
into under looked I agree fully with both the Members from Tanjong and Batu that there should be more exchange of research workers between different bodies and this we are looking into-and, in fact, some of our officers are being exchanged between the London Re search Office and the Institute here.

The Honourable Member for Muar Utara suggested that all these benefits of research should be passed on to the smallholders.
Sir, I can assure every Member of this House that this is being done, because under the Rubber Research Institute itself, we have a Smallholders Technical Service.

This Smallholders Technical Service which spends a considerable.

amount of the total income of the Rubber Research Institute goes around ensuring that the smallholders get as much as possible of the benefits of research done by the Rubber Research Institute.

He has suggested that this service should be extended to Sabah and Sarawak.
Sir, at the moment, it cannot be done, because the two States have, in the Inter-Government Agreement, decided to retain the control of rubber as their own private State subject, and they do not contribute towards this Malayan Rubber Fund Board.

How ever, we would like to see harmonisa tion of the whole of this question of rubber research and extend the benefits there.
The Honourable Member for 'Muar Utara also suggested that .we should reduce the price of Dunlop pillow, so that everybody can enjoy a nice sleep.

Sir, may I draw his attention to the fact that not only Dunlop but there are several other conipanies who are already producing foam rubber as mattress and I think the prices are very competitive.
On the question of using rubber for road surfacing research is still being carried on and quite a number of roads and even landing strips for aerodromes rubber has been used, but the question is a cost factor and this is being leoked into.

The Honourable Member for Bachok suggested that the Members of the Board should come ftom all experts but, as I tried to explain to .
him just now, the Board of the R.R.I; does function mainly financing· and for administration and does not advise on research, whereas the research work is being done by the higher Board, the Malayan Rubber Fund Board.

foreign to hear I am very pleased the Hon'ble Member from Bachok say that we should adopt a policy of inviting research more and more workers to help us man our RR.I.

and even go to the extent of giving them citizenship if they are of value to us.
Sir, this is a very noble thought and certainly I hope it does not conflict with the P.M.l.P.

's policy of making Malaya for the Malays!

(Laughter).

Sir, the Honourable Member for Pasir Puteh, however, has raised a very pertinent issue and that is that he does not think that "Chinese" should be used as one of the medium of instruction to people at our R.R.I.

Training Centres meant for small men, and that he considers this as a retro grade step.
Sir, may I draw his attention to the fact that the whole purpose of training the small man in 2523 13 NOVEMBER 1965 2524 that the rural areas is to give him the know ledge of how to grow, how to harvest, to sell his rubber, and and how is the best medium naturally required would be the medium in which he understands best.
So, I do not see why the Hon'ble Member should consider this a retrograde step, in view of the fact that today in our education policy we still have schools with English medium, the Malay medium, the Chinese medium and the National Language medium and the Tamil medium.

Sir, all in all, I think I have covered every point and I move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time.


ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE (MOTION) The Minister of Works, Post and Telecommunications (Dato' V. T. Sambantbao): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move: That further consideration of the business now before the House be deferred to the next sitting day and that the House do now adjourn.

Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, I beg to second the motion.

till Monday morning?

Is Dr Tan Chee Khoon: Mr Speaker, Sir.


may I ask the Government why is it that the House should suspend itc; sitting it because that certain Ministers or all Ministers have to participate in this main bola golf in Cameron Highlands?

If it is so, Mr Speaker, Sir, is it not an abuse of powers on the part of Government benches to benefit a few?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: No.

Question put, and agreed to.


Resolved, That further consideration of the business now before the House be deferred to the next sitting day and that the House do now adjourn.

Mr Speaker: The sitting is adjourned till 10.00 a.m. on Monday, the 15th.

Adjourned at I.JO p.m. 373-620-6.8-:66-JCKJ .-