Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698750247112.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume II No.

30 Thursday 2nd December, 1965 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DEW AN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT SECOND SESSION OF THE SECOND PARLIAMENT OF MALAYSIA CONTENTS ANNOUNCEMENT BY Mr SPEAKER [Col. 4449] BILL: The Supply Bill, 1966— Committee of Supply (Fifth Allotted Day)— Head S. 17 [Col. 4450] Heads S. 18, S. 19 and S. 20 [Col. 4517] DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A .

M .
M .

N ., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1967 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Second Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat Thursday, 2nd December, 1965 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.

PRESENT: The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YUSUF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, S.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara, Perak.

the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).
(Pekan).

the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).

the Minister of Education, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).

the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan).

the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).
(Ulu Selangor).

the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., PJ.K.

(Klang).

the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat).

the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, TUAN HAJI MOHAMED GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAWI (Ulu Perak).

the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BTN YA'KUB (Sarawak).

the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh).
the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P J .

K. (Sepang).

the Assistant Minister of Finance, DR NG KAM POH, J.P. (Telok Anson).

the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health, ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' LEE SAN CHOON, K.M.N.

(Segamat Selatan).

4443 2 DECEMBER 1965 4444 The Honourable the Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister, ENCHE' CHEN WING SUM (Damansara).
ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N.

(Melaka Selatan).

WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T.

(Kuala Trengganu Utara).

WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (Sabah).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu).

TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Segamat Utara).

ENCHE' A BU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok).


TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kelantan Hilir).

ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara).

CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).

ENCHE' A Z IZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING, P.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan).

ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta).

ENCHE' D. A. DAGO ANAK RANDAN alias DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak).
ENCHE' C. V. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar).

ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

TUAN SYED E SA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).

DATIN HAJJAH FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johor Bahru Timor;).

DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).

ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

ENCHE' G EH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara).

ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, A.M.N.

(Jerai).


ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat).

ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN T O' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N.

(Raub).

DATO' HAJI HUSSEIN BIN MOHD.

NOORDIN, D.P.M.P., A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Parit).

TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).

4445 2 DECEMBER 1965 4446 The Honourable DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N.

(Johor Tenggara).
(Johor Tenggara).

PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' THOMAS KANA (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

DR LIM CHONG EU (Tanjong).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

DATO' DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K.

(Kuala Kangsar).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).


DATO' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K.

(Pasir Puteh).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut).

ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Jelebu-Jempol).

ENCHE' MOHD.

TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K.

(Kuala Langat).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N.

(Sungai Patani).

WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman).

TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).
ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir).

TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU'AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah).

DATO' N IK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., SJ.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P., Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir).

ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah).

ENCHE' ONG KEE H UI (Sarawak).

TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.


(Perlis Utara).

TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat).

RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA'AMOR, PJ.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor).

ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S.

(Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SENAWI BIN ISMAIL, PJ.K.

(Seberang Selatan).

ENCHE' SOH AH TECK (Batu Pahat).

4447 2 DECEMBER 1965 4448 The Honourable ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN A LI (Dungun).

PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah).


ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN A L I, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim Bandar Bharu).

ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak).

DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu).

ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan).

ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara).

ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB, P J .

K. (Langat).

ABSENT: The Honourable the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M.
TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).

the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT A LI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang).

the Minister for Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K.

(Sarawak).
(Sarawak).

the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kola Star Utara).

the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, J.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K.

(Trengganu Tengah).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K.

(Kuantan).

ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan).

Y.A.M.
Y.A.M.

TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T.

(Rawang).

ENCHE' A LI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan).

O.K.K.

DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, S.M.J.

(Muar Selatan).

ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak).

ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN, A.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah).

DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Kapar).


ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

4449 2 DECEMBER 1965 4450 The Honourable ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan).

ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan).

ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak).

DATU KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S.

(Sarawak).

ENCHE' L IM PEE HUNG, P.J.K.

(Alor Star).

ENCHE' PETER LO SU YIN (Sabah).

ENCHE' JOSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah).


ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor).

TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, PJ.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

DATO' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM, D.P.M.P., P.M.P., J.P. (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SIOW LOONG HIN, PJ.K.

(Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka).

ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang).


ENCHE' TAN TSAK YU (Sarawak).

ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar).

ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

PRAYERS (Mr Speaker in the Chair) BILL THE SUPPLY BILL, 1966 ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER Order read for resumed considera (Fifth tion in Committee of Supply Allotted Day).

ALLOTMENT OF TIME FOR )R SUPPLY HEADS IN SCHEDULE LE OF SUPPLY BILL—S.O.

66 (4) House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair) SCHEDULE Debate resumed.

Mr Speaker: Honourable Members, I s, I have an announcement to make.

You You are aware that in our deliberations on s on Head S. 17— om- the Supply Bill, 1966, in the Com pro.

mittee of Supply stage, we have pro gressed up to Head S. 17 for the past past Timbalan Perdana Menteri (Tun five days.
It is now apparent to me me Haji Abdul Razak): Tuan Pengerusi, that since there are nine more days supaya the saYa pohon menchadangkan left and sixty more Heads in the the kepala bekalan atau supply Head S. 17 Schedule to be discussed, I have to ' to yang menunjokkan peruntokan wang resort to Standing Order 66 (4) and and sa-banyak $237,674,453 bagi Kemen- allot a maximum time for each of the the terian Pertahanan untok tahun 1966 remaining Heads of the Schedule to to menjadi sa-bahagian daripada Jadual.
the Bill.

A time-table will be dis tributed to Honourable Members this this afternoon.

Peruntokan sa-banyak yang tersebut terbahagi kapada dua bahagian itu 4451 2 DECEMBER 1965 4452 'Awarn dan ia-itu $102,360,139 bagi Gaji2, sama ada gaji Pegawai2 juga Pegawai2 Tentera, Ahli2 tentera; dan $124,153,381 bagi Lain2 Perbelanjaan Berulang Tiap2 Tahun dan $11,160,503 bagi Perbelanjaan Khas atau Special Expenditure.
yang kuat dan Tuan Pengerusi, Ahli2 Yang Berhor- mat sedia ma'alum bahawa sa-bagai sa-buah negara yang merdeka dan berdaulat, kita mesti-lah mempunyai pertahanan serba lengkap untok mempertahankan ke merdekaan dan kedaulatan kita.

Oleh hal yang demikian Angkatan Bersen- jata kita hendak-lah di-perbesarkan dan di-perluaskan dengan barang2 baharu untok menentang sa-barang apa anchaman, sama ada dari dalam atau pun dari luar negeri.

Kita tidak dapat membesarkan Angkatan Ber- senjata kita dengan serta-merta.
Per- kara di-jalankan terpaksa-lah dengan beransor2.

Sunggoh pun bagitu, ranchangan pembesaran ini mustahak- lah di-semak dan di-kaji, dari satu masa ka-satu masa, mengikut keadaan yang berlaku di-dalam dan di-sekeli- ling negara ini.

Sa-kira-nya itu memaksakan kita men- keadaan chepatkan pembesaran angkatan ten tera kita, maka terpaksa-lah kita berbuat demikian supaya kemerdekaan dan kedaulatan negara kita itu sentiasa di-jaga.
kita ini Kita telah mula membesarkan Ang terchapai katan Bersenjata semenjak kemerdekaan.

Pada masa itu pem besaran yang di-jalankan dengan ber ansor2, akan tetapi apabila berlaku-nya konfrontasi daripada Indonesia, pem besaran telah di-perchepatkan sadikit sa-hingga pada masa ini, dan kita akan terus membesarkan lagi tentera kita dari satu masa ka-satu masa sa- hingga kita sampai kapada tingkatan di-fikirkan berpatutan bagi negara kita ini.
Tentera darat ada mempunyai tambahan anggota yang banyak sa-kali pada tahun hadapan, pasokan2 baharu ia-itu Infantry Batallion atau Pasokan Berjalan Kaki di-tubohkan supaya menambah lagi kekuatan yang sedia.

Bagitu juga satu Pasokan Juru- tera dan satu Regiment Semboyan— Signal Regiment—akan di-tubohkan.

juga Sa-lain daripada terdapat akan itu, pasokan2 kechil yang akan di-tuboh kan saperti Pasokan Workshop, Supply Road Transport, Life Aid Test.
Sa-lain daripada penubohan pasokan baharu tambahan anggota terdapat juga-lah kapada pasokan2 yang lama telah di-tubohkan.

Umpama-nya, Pasokan Semboyan Workshop, Perubatan, lain2-nya, akan ber- Peninjau dan tambah bilangan-nya.

Dua batalion Malaysian Rangers telah pun menjadi sa-bahagian daripada anggota Tentera Malaysia.

Kedua2 batalion itu yang mengandongi anak2 negeri dari Sabah dan Sarawak, telah di-tubohkan dan telah mendapat bantuan latehan dari pada Kerajaan British.
Dan pada masa ini kedua2 batalion ini telah di-pindah- kapada Angkatan Bersenjata kan Malaysia.

Pada tahun hadapan, kita peruntokan terpaksa mengadakan wang bagi kedua2 batalion ini.

Dalam tahun 1966 juga, jumlah kapal yang ada pada Angkatan Tentera Laut akan di-tambah berma'ana-lah bahawa lebeh banyak lagi kaki-tangan2 yang di-kehendaki supaya kapal2 itu dapat juga-lah di-gunakan.

Bagitu pasokan baharu akan di-tubohkan.


Demikian juga-lah pasokan yang telah sedia di-tubohkan terpaksa di-tambah anggota2-nya dan terpaksa menambah juga perbelanjaan.

Bagitu- lah berkenaan dengan Tentera Udara— kapal terbang yang ada pada masa ini, bilangan-nya akan di-tambah lagi supaya dapat melaksanakan tugas-nya dengan lebeh sempurna.

Umpama-nya, Squadron Helicopter Alouet akan di- tambah banyak lagi dan di-tambah lagi bilangan squadron.

ini kita lagi.

Ini lagi.


Pada juga di-perluas Tuan Pengerusi, bagitu juga-lah Askar Wataniah di-jadikan Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan yang akan di- lagi—akan di-perbesar tambah dan tahun hadapan, Pasokan Pertahanan Tem patan yang tubohkan di- telah kita Persekutuan Tanah Melayu ini, akan di-tubohkan pula di-Sabah dan di- Sarawak.
Sa-lain daripada menjaga keselamatan tempat di-mana ada-nya di-tubohkan Pasokan Pertahanan Tem patan itu, pasokan ini ia-lah di-guna kan untok menjaga sasaran penting atau key point di-negeri2 kita ini, bagi menchegah pengkhianat2 dari memus- nah dan juga membinasakan tempat2 4453 2 DECEMBER 1965 4454 itu.

Pada masa sekarang di-Sabah dan di-Sarawak tidak ada Pasokan Per- tahanan Tempatan.
Oleh itu, terpaksa- lah pekerjaan2 di-Sabah dan di- Sarawak itu di-jalankan oleh Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan yang di-hantar ini.

Apabila Pasokan dari Malaya Pertahanan di-tubohkan Tempatan pada tahun hadapan di-Sabah dan di- Sarawak, pasokan dari Persekutuan ini akan di-tarek balek supaya kita dapat memberi peluang kapada anak2 negeri Sabah dan Sarawak menjaga keseiamatan negeri2 mereka itu sendiri.
jawatan2 ia-lah untok bagi Malaysia Sekarang Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka hendak memberi penerangan sadikit berkenaan dengan peruntokan wang yang terdapat di-bawah Kepala S. 17 ini.

Jadi, saperti yang saya terangkan tadi, kebanyakan tambahan2 ini ada- lah terdapat di-bawah gaji2, sebab kita terpaksa membesarkan semua anggota2 bersenjata kita.
Pada 'am-nya, ang- garan ini boleh di-bahagikan kapada lima bahagian—A, B, C, D dan E. jawatan Bahagian A 'Awam dan juga tentera yang di-ujud- kan sa-belum terbentok-nya Malaysia.

B ia-lah jawatan2 di-adakan semenjak Malaysia di-tubohkan.

Bahagian B ini di-bahagikan kapada dua bahagian ia- itu dan jawatan2 bagi Singapura.

Di-Singapura, kita ada mempunyai satu Brigade di- sana.

Bahagian C ia-lah untok jawatan Khidmat Negara yang mempunyai tambahan anggota sa-banyak 1,360 orang.
Peruntokan wang ada-lah ber- tambah lebeh kurang $1,216,200.

Jadi penambahan ia-lah amat perlu, hendak kerana menambah lagi bilangan pelateh2 yang dapat menerima latehan sa-chara ber senjata.

Pusat2 ada sekarang ini akan di-perbesarkan lagi dan kita berchadang hendak tambah lagi dua pusat latehan—satu di-Pulau Pinang dan satu di-Johor Bahru.

Pada masa ini—sa-hingga hari ini, sa-banyak 4,175 orang telah latehan tentera, dan 10,802 di-beri orang 'Awam.
latehan Pertahanan Bahagian D di-untokkan bagi jawatan2 dalam Tentera Tempatan dan juga Pasokan Pertahanan Tempatan.

Se karang ini, kita ada mempunyai sa- banyak 1,377 platoon di-serata tempat di-Malaya ini dan Pasokan Pertahanan ra'ayat Malaysia latehan yang berchadang kita ini ini telah pun di-buka Tempatan kapada kaum wanita.
Pada tahun hadapan, Pasokan Pertahanan Wanita ini akan di-tambah lagi supaya lebeh banyak lagi kaum wanita kita yang dapat menunjokkan kehandalan dan juga keperwiraan mereka itu bersama2 laki2 dalam memper- dengan kaum tahankan negara kita.

Bahagian E ada-lah untok jawatan2 sukarela yang telah di-panggil ber- tugas, sama ada menjaga "key point" atau pun membantu askar biasa.
Askar yang berkenaan ia-lah Askar Wataniah dan juga Local Defence Corps, Askar Simpanan Pada masa mereka itu berlateh, mereka itu hanya-lah di-beri bayaran elaun mengikut masa latehan yang di-jalan itu di- kan, panggil untok berkhidmat "full-time", maka mustahak-lah di-bayar gaji dan juga layanan2 yang lain di-beri saperti askar biasa.

tetapi apabila mereka Tentera Udara.

terpaksa membesarkan Tuan Pengerusi, sa-lain daripada itu lain2—Perbelanjaan ada-lah bahagian Berulang Tiap2 Tahun atau O.C.A.R.
Di-sini terpaksa-lah kita tambah per- untokan-nya kerana, saperti saya kata, tentera2 kita kita di-semua pasokan, dan peruntokan ada-lah di-kehendaki bagi membeli barang2, alat2 senjata dan juga bagi mengganti dan membesarkan berek2 tentera2 kita di- tempat kediaman serata ini.

Saya fikir tidak payah-lah saya terangkan satu persatu pechahan-kepala di-bawah ini.
tempat di-Malaysia Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Penge rusi, ada-lah Perbelanjaan Khas atau yang Special Expenditure berke- hendakkan lebeh kurang tambahan $5,050,122 daripada angka yang telah di-persetujukan bagi tahun 1965.

Jadi di-bawah bahagian ini, kita ada-lah berkehendakkan perbelanjaan2 untok perkara2, menambahkan umpama pakaian, barang2 sector arm bersama, atau pun barang2 sector teknik bersama dan juga bagi Tentera Udara berkehendakkan barang2 untok di-gunakan bagi menjalankan latehan lain2-nya.
Bagitu saperti radio dan juga-lah kita berkehendakkan per untokan di-bawah Pechahan-kepala 57 berbagai2 4455 2 DECEMBER 1965 4456 tempat kediaman bagi mengadakan sementara untok tentera kita di-Sabah dan Sarawak.

Jadi tentera2 kita yang berkhidmat di-Sabah dan Sarawak itu sentiasa di-tukar, dari satu masa ka- jadi mustahak-lah di- satu masa, adakan tempat kediaman di-situ.

suka yang ini.

Di-Sabah Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah sahaja kete- rangan2 hendak saya berikan terhadap peruntokan perbelan- tahun 1966.
Saperti saya jaan bagi kata tadi, angkatan senjata kita telah semangat dan keper- menunjokkan wiraan dan ta'at setia yang sangat gilang gemilang dalam menjalankan tugas mereka untok menentang musoh di-negara kita dan Sarawak pehak musoh kerap kali membuat percherobohan masok ka- dalam negara kita.

Tetapi Angkatan Senjata Malaysia telah dapat berjaya, sama ada memburu atau pun menen tang atau pun menawan mereka itu.
Dalam mempertahankan negara kita, tidak dapat tidak ada daripada ahli2 tentera kita yang terkorban dan saya suka menyebutkan di-sini bahawa jasa dan pengorbanan mereka itu ada-lah sentiasa di-ingat oleh ra'ayat negara kita juga kapada askar Commonwealth, Australia, New Zea land dan Great Britain yang memberi pertolongan bagi mempertahankan tanah ayer kita ini, saya suka mengu- chapkan berbanyak terima kaseh ka itu.

Jadi, Tuan Yang pada mereka di-Pertua, saya mohon menchadangkan peruntokan ini.

ini.
ini.

Bagitu Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah (Bachok): Tuan Pengerusi, dengan izin tuan, saya memulakan perbahathan ini dengan memberi terima kaseh kapada Menteri Pertahanan kita yang walau pun sudah terlewat beliau itu memberi terima kaseh kapada Angkatan Ten tera kita ia-itu beliau di-akhir sa-kali baharu memberi terima kaseh.

Sa- patut-nya pada masa membuka uchapan itu-lah dengan terima kaseh tentera2 kita itu.

Jadi boleh kapada itu memberi jadi-lah Menteri kita peluang saya memulakan terima kaseh itu.
Jadi, Tuan Penge rusi kapada .

.

.. Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Tuan Penge rusi, pukulan yang akhir itu-lah yang baik sa-kali biasa-nya (Ketawa).

boleh chuchi pinggan tentera2 saya Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau akhir makan nasi, sahaja-lah (Ketawa).

Tuan Pengerusi,, saya ada menyediakan dua tiga butir di-sini, tidak banyak, rengkas sahaja.
Tetapi buat kali yang pertama ini, saya suka- lah hendak menerangkan satu perkara berkait dengan uchapan Menteri kita ini ia-itu patut-lah sangat di-dalam tugas pegawai2 penerangan kita ia-itu saperti mana tersebut dalam Butiran (10) muka 153 ini.

Kita ada Pegawai Penerangan, ada 10 orang Pegawai Penerangan Kanan jadi-lah maksud penerangan ini ia-lah sa-mata2 untok urusan2 berkenaan dengan hal pegawai2-nya.
dan ehwal Tetapi supaya juga suka-lah pegawai2 ini di-dalam kempen-nya pun menjalankan memileh pegawai2 yang baharu itu, di-adakan chetakan2, penerbitan2 yang memberi semangat kapada pemuda2 kita supaya menyambut seruan2 per tahanan negara.

Sebab sa-tahu saya, ada pehak2 yang mendiamkan diri tidak mahu menyambut, hanya mereka itu apabila ada seruan2 berkenaan dengan kekayaan ekonomi, di-situ-lah sahaja mereka itu menyambut seruan membeli saham2.
Tetapi saham2 yang untok mengorbankan darah dan jiwa kerana mempertahankan negara kita ini amat-lah sadikit.

Ini ada-lah akibat daripada kurang chergas-nya Pegawai2 tugas2 Penerangan itu menjalankan mereka kerana pegawai2-nya tidak chukup.
recruiting atau bukan-lah Tuan Pengerusi, bagaimana saya katakan rengkas tadi, khusus-nya saya tujukan kapada perajurit2 yang ber- ugama Islam dan juga perajurit2 yang ketuhanan dan pemuda2 berfaham yang bakal menjadi perajurit bahawa menyambut seruan pertahanan negara sa-mata2 masaalah ini makan gaji dan khidmat, tetapi ada- lah juga masaalah yang bersangkut paut dengan ugama dan 'akidah.
Saya, Tuan Pengerusi, menutup ulasan reng ini, saya membacha satu ayat kas Quran kapada pemuda2 itu supaya mereka itu kuat sadikit semangat ia-itu bunyi-nya: (Dalam Bahasa Arab).

4457 2 DECEMBER 1965 4458 Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin (Lipis): Tuan Pengerusi, betul-kah ayat yang wakil itu bacha?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau sa-kira-nya di- minta saya bacha dengan tidak payah tengok pun, boleh.

Saya hafaz ayat Quran itu dan saya sa-orang Utaz yang lima belas tahun berkhidmat .
.

.

(Ketawa).

ia-lah Ini, Tuan Pengerusi, tidak menyambut .

.

.. satu seruan supaya pemuda2 kita menyam- but seruan2 pertahanan dan kalau-lah (Dalam kita bahasa Arab) .

.

.. erti-nya Tuhan akan mengubahkan pemerentah lain pula menggantikan kita kalau sa-kira- tidak bersunggoh2 dalam nya kita pertahanan.
ada oleh Pengerusi, sebab Tuan itu-lah uchapan saya mengatakan Yang Berhormat Menteri tadi mem- beritakan kapada kita pertahanan akan barang2 di-perkuatkan, mesti baharu, mesti menchegah penchero- tahu bohan dari dalam.

Saya tidak pencherobohan dari dalam ini dari pada gerakan Bungsar-kah atau pun Dato' Kramat-kah.

Tetapi pertahanan daripada pencherobohan dalam, kemu- dian terus memperbesarkan lagi ten- tera2.
Jadi ini, Tuan Pengerusi, kalau- lah ini satu tugas yang besar daripada lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, tahun saya minta Menteri Pertahanan ini di-penohkan supaya tidak merangkak bagini sahaja.

Saya bukan-lah tidak perchaya kapada Menteri Pertahanan ini.

Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, ke-semua orang tahu Menteri Pertahanan kita ini akan menjadi Perdana Menteri kerana Perdana Menteri kita akan ber- penchen.

Jadi kita mahu-lah sa-orang Menteri penoh di-sini di-lantek dari pada askar.
sudah Tuan Pengerusi, perkara ini mudah kita boleh chari sa-orang Brigadier General, atau pun Lieutenant General, atau pun Major General dalam tentera lantek dia menjadi kita.

Dan kita Senator dan kemudian kita letak-lah orang ini menjadi Menteri daripada kita dudok memileh, ada sa-tengah2 yang tidak patut-lah kita bawa ka- dalam Dewan ini.

Jadi kita letakkan sa-bagai Menteri Per Menteri itu "policy maker" tahanan.
Tuan Pengerusi, dalam ka- ini, orang2 yang adaan pertahanan merupakan sahaja tidak betul2 grip, tidak kuat dia dalam masaalah pertahanan ini.

Tetapi kalau sa-orang askar, General atau pun Lieutenant General menjadi Menteri Pertahanan, saya rasa itu-lah perkara yang paling tepat sa-kali dan saya tidak fikir dalam dunia zaman modern ini Menteri Per yang tahanan di-bagi kapada orang yang philosopher academik—tidak military.

sa-macham dan Tuan Pengerusi apabila kita sebut .

.
.

Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad (Kota Star Selantan): Untok penjelasan, Men teri Pertahanan bagi United States ia-itu terdiri daripada orang preman Mr MacNamara, bukan orang tentera.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi saya tidak ingat ini MacNamara, tetapi kebanyakan orang yang bernama MacNamara itu berjiwa tentera dan kita di-sini MacNamara, dahulu D. P. MacNamara, F. K. import dari MacNamara yang kita Europah commandant itu menjadi Police Depot dan saya sudah masok training tentera, daftar chachar ubat tentera, ini tentera, Tuan Pengerusi, dan lagi satu MacNamara yang di- Amerika itu, kalau ta' salah saya, dia tentera sudah berkhidmat di-dalam dalam perang dunia yang kedua dan memang negara2 yang sudah maju, latehan mereka itu melalui dahulu tentera itu pergi sa-belum mereka universiti, tidak saperti di-Malaya.
Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta penjelasan, apa benda yang Wakil Bachok itu tentera telah dahulu, saya hendak tahu pangkat-nya yang sudah di-terima.

dalam masa dapat tidak mustahak Enche9 Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tidak mustahak saya bagi tahu yang itu—(Ketawa) saya bagi tahu.

Tuan Pengerusi lagi satu, saya tahun sudah saya berkata ia-itu Butiran (26), Nazir Ugama, pada tahun sudah.

Saya tidak mahu orang biasa, saya mahu mesti-lah lepasan dari universiti.
Saya mengeshorkan 4459 2 DECEMBER 1965 4460 kalau ada orang lain tidak mahu, kita boleh-lah menchabar dalam Dewan ini yang ada beberapa orang kita yang pas daripada universiti Azhar supaya mereka tentera itu masok ka-dalam memikul senjata, tidak-lah berchakap sahaja, berani di-dalam Dewan ini.

Jadi kalau hendak menyambut seruan tentera itu mereka tidak mahu.

Mereka membuat satu kebudayaan $35 sa-hari dalam Dewan ini.

Mengangkat senjata mereka itu takut.


Tuan Pengerusi berkenaan dengan jawatan tentera, Butiran (104), (105) dan (106), di-sini Tuan Pengerusi, kita dapati gaji yang di-kemukakan di-sini ia-lah gaji Lieutenant General, Major General, Brigadier.
Tetapi sa-tahu saya, pada tahun ini, sudah ada, kalau ta' silap saya, barangkali information saya ta' betul, tetapi saya tahu ia-itu ada beberapa pegawai tentera kita yang sudah naik pangkat kapada Brigadier General, jadi ada-kah orang2 ini gaji-nya sama juga dengan Briga dier sa-mata2 sedang satu "bar" atau pun pangkat ka-sini naik kapada Brigadier General, satu pangkat yang susah, yang tidak boleh di-dapati sa- sa-tengah2 Ahli Dewan bagaimana ini dapat dengan sa- Parlimen kita mata2 rahmat gambar Tunku Abdul Rahman menang di-dalam pilehan raya, tentera, tidak mudah pegawai Tuan Pengerusi, sebab itu, saya minta- ini di-berikan perhatian lah perkara yang penoh.
Berkenaan dengan Butiran (122) muka V 157, saya hendak meminta tambah lagi kalau boleh, tetapi saya merasakan amat-lah dukachita kerana "recruit2" kita ini tidak naik gaji-nya ia-itu $54.50 sa-mata2 ia-itu dua hari elaun Parlimen.

Hamba Allah itu sudah sa-bulan hendak dapat gaji sa- bulan, hendak menunggu $54 itu sama dengan dua hari elaun Member of Parliament.
Pada hal orang itu se- karang ini masok dalam hutan dan saya bimbang, Tuan Pengerusi, dalam keadaan yang konferantasi sa-macham ini kalau tentera2 ini tidak puas hati dengan layanan kita, walau pun kita tidak boleh melayan dengan sa-penoh, tidak tetapi hasrat kita kalau kita dapat menunjokkan yang layanan penoh, tentera2 kita sekarang ini sudah tebal jiwa republikan-nya, Tuan Penge rusi, dan apabila tebal jiwa republican ini Kabinet tidak akan dapat "stand"—ini ada-lah satu perkara.
ini Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Penjelasan, ada-kah Wakil Bachok berchakap, menambah, membangkit- kan dengan uchapan ini?

perasaan menghasut Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Ini di-dalam Parlimen, bagaimana saya hendak menghasut tentera, saya dalam Parlimen, saya di-dalam rumah yang mulia ini.

tidak-kah pandangan Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Jadi ini akan di-siarkan di-dalam akhbar yang boleh di-bacha oleh askar2 kita?
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, beri tahu Menteri Penerangan, suroh dia cancel, jangan masokkan.

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Ada-kah bagitu dasar Kerajaan kita yang demokrasi?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Jadi kalau bagitu kebebasan apa-kah Ahli Yang Berhormat hendak menahan saya berchakap, turut perentah, Tuan Pengerusi, kalau Tuan Pengerusi kata jangan, saya balek ka- lain, kalau dia hendak perentah saya, no!
akan saya saya tidak Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Tuan Pengerusi, akan tuan, dan saya melanggar hukuman tidak akan memerentah Wakii Bachok untok Saya memohon penjelasan daripada uchapan yang baharu ini.

Terima sa-bentar kaseh, Tuan Pengerusi.

berchakap.

berhenti Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Dan apa yang saya katakan itu ada-lah penjelasan.

Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail (Kuala Trengganu Utara): Ada-kah Parti Pas sukakan bentok pemerentah betul2 dalam republik?

Terangkan Dewan ini.


Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: lain, itu masaalah Tuan Pengerusi, 4461 2 DECEMBER 1965 4462 supaya tetapi masaalah yang saya sebutkan ini ada-lah masaalah pandangan saya dan tidak-lah patut Ahli2 ini menekan saya saya berkata, dengan niat supaya saya hilang "point".

Saya siuman dan ta' marah, Tuan Pengerusi, orang buat macham mana pun saya ta' marah.

Dan apa yang saya akan kata, saya akan katakan sa-hingga-lah Tun sendiri memerentahkan.
terbang, perbelanjaan perang yang Tuan Pengerusi, kembali kita ka pada peruntokan ini, muka 168, ia-itu perbelanjaan penyenggaraan—ini kapal terbang pula, saya mahu kapal laut, Tuan Pengerusi, ada kapal laut, Tuan Pengerusi, saya maksudkan di-sini muka 168, Pechahan-kepala 26 dan 27 Tuan Pengerusi, boleh-lah Menteri kita ini memperbetulkan kalau saya silap ia-itu penyenggaraan kapal terbang ta' di-masok, saya ta' sebutkan kapal ia-itu pada tahun ini lebeh angka-nya menjadi $5 million dekat2 $6 million.
Apa yang sampai kapada saya, Tuan Pengerusi, ia-itu saya minta-lah penjelasan dari- pada Menteri, kapal2 yang kita beli ini di-katakan kapal2 British yang lama yang masok kedua dahulu, perang dunia yang kedua.

Jadi kapal2 ini hendak di-buang bagitu sahaja, kalau bagitu British membuat Perjanjian Pertahanan dengan kita dan berjanji hendak menolong beberapa kapal, kapal yang di-gunakan untok tentera.
Maka kapal2 burok ini-lah di- bawa balek pergi ka-England, dan di- situ di-sapu chat dan di-buat baharu, kemudian ada yang di-tinggalkan di- Pulau Malta, bagitu bagini, dan kita membawa kapal2 mari ka-sini sebab itu-lah perbelanjaan menyenggarakan kapal ini—bukan beli kapal2, jaga motokar, menjaga kapal kalau-lah macham ini nampak-nya perbelanjaan maintenance itu lebeh mahal daripada kapal2 burok itu lagi.
Jadi ini, Tuan Pengerusi, boleh jadi orang menudoh bahawa Malaya kita ini sudah-lah kena jajah, sudah merdeka daripada jajahan pun maseh kena lagi tipu oleh orang puteh, dan baharu2 ini dia mem ini dia buat statement orang puteh hendak berunding dengan Indonesia pula fasal konfrantasi kita.

Kita yang konfrantasi dia hendak berunding!

Jadi, Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah kapal.


ini—"maintenance" bermelion2 dan Mr Chairman: Saya suka hendak menegor, tipu, ta' boleh-lah kata orang puteh, ta' boleh-lah berchakap macham itu, barangkali ada muslihat apa2, boleh berchakap, tetapi ta' boleh kata tipu, tipu chakap yang ta' baik.

ia-itu kapal2 yang Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: ta' Tuan Pengerusi, perkataan yang baik itu kita ubahkan kapada dia bagi barang yang ta' elok.
Dia tidak tipu, tetapi dia bagi barang kapada Menteri kita ta' elok dan kita ta' mahu-lah Menteri kita ini selalu mendapat kapal2 yang ta' elok, sebab orang tudoh dia tidak berapa pandai pula.

Jadi, Tuan Penge rusi, saya lebeh suka-lah Menteri kita memberi perhatian yang sa-benar-nya sebab bukan sahaja merugikan kita membayar "maintenance" tetapi boleh jadi mengendalakan kechergasan ten tera2 navy kita menjalankan kerja.
Ini Tuan Pengerusi, kalau-lah kita gambarkan kapal2 yang burok ini sama-lah juga dengan motokar yang burok.

Kalau motokar lalu sa-tengah2 motokar2 Ahli2 dengan Yang Berhormat, dia pakai petrol lari deras, saya punya enjin disel sudah burok, selalu dia potong.
Jadi kalau ini burok bagitu, kalau kapal kita bertemu dengan kapal2 Indonesia atau pun kapal2 seteru dia boleh buat macham2, dia sumpit kita, kita hendak buru dia, dia lari bagitu sahaja, ini menambahkan sakit hati lagi kapada tentera2 kita yang hendak melawan yang sa-benar itu dan dia balek dia kata Kerajaan kita beri kapal burok kapada kita pula.

Jadi marah pula orang2 itu lagi Ahli2 yang sa-belah kiri ini, kata saya mengapi2kan is the point".
lagi dan marah-lah tetapi, "this tentera saya Dato' Haji Mustapha bin Abdul Jabar (Sabak Bernam): Penjelasan sadikit, Yang Berhormat ada menyebut bahawa telah membeli kapal2 Kerajaan kita yang burok.

Dapat-kah di-terangkan apa jenis kapal dan berapa banyak?

Nama kapal yang di-beli burok itu barangkali Yang Berhormat ini sudah tengok, minta penjelasan?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak mengatakan kita membeli kapal2 burok, saya tidak 4463 2 DECEMBER 1965 4464 kata bagitu.
Saya kata ia-itu dalam Perjanjian Pertahanan kita dengan Inggeris ada memberi kapal2 kapada kita dengan kapal2 ini sa-tahu saya kapal burok, saya tidak kata beli.

Jadi adaikah Ahli Yang Berhormat ini takut sangat kapada kapal Melayu ini?

Tuan Pengerusi, berkenaan dengan Pechahan-kepala 28—Peluru pun, Tuan Pengerusi, amat-lah di-khuatirkan.
Saya tidak dapat mengatakan; yang informa tion yang saya dapat itu betul, tetapi chukup untok saya mengatakan khu- atir di-sini ia-itu amat-lah kita takut bahawa peluru2 ini peluru2 yang lama yang sudah di-gunakan dalam pepe- rangan yang lalu atau pun peluru2, walau pun ada isi-nya di-dalam, tetapi tidak dapat menembak dan dia akan merupakan dummy sahaja.
Kebanya- kan peluru2 yang sa-macham ini selalu tentera2—salah mengechiwakan satu sebab2-nya, kekalahan pe- daripada perangan Arab—UAR—dengan Israel, mengikut surat khabar, ia-lah kerana itu membawa peluru2, yang mereka kosong—dummy belaka.

Apabila ber- tempur, peluru2 itu tidak dapat me nembak kapada orang itu, dia dapat mengeluarkan bunyi tetapi tidak me nembak.
Bunyi-nya itu boleh menakut- kan dan boleh mematikan orang2 pena- sa-tengah2 Wakil kut Perikatan, tetapi kapada tentera2, dia tidak boleh mematikan—peluru yang dummy, itu.

sa-bagaimana Enche' Mohd.

Tahir bin Abdul Majid (Kuala Langat): Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta penjelasan, kapada Yang Ber hormat itu, kerap kali dia mengatakan ia-itu Ahli Yang Berhormat dalam Rumah yang mulia ini peijakut.

Ada- kah dia berma'ana mahu menchabar, sama ada takut atau tidak, menchuba di-luar Dewan ini.
Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji (Pasir Mas Hulu): Tuan Penge rusi, saya suka hendak bertanya chuba apa?

Enche9 Mohd.

Tahir bin Abdul Majid: Tuan Pengerusi, Yang Ber hormat itu tidak payah bangun, saya berchakap kapada Yang Berhormat yang daripada Bachok, jangan di- salah gunakan.

Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji: Dato' Pengerusi, kami orang2 PAS datang daripada Kelantan, kami kalau takut kami tidak masok Dewan ini, apa jadi pun tidak apa.

Enche' Mohd.
Enche' Mohd.

Tahir bin Abdul Majid: Dato' Pengerusi, kalau hendak menchuba boleh juga-lah.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, Ahli Yang Berhormat itu barangkali dia hendak bergurau, tetapi challenge yang sa-macham itu- lah menyebabkan Mr Chairman: Itu-lah, Ahli Yang Berhormat itu jaga sadikit chakapan, jadi berlawan dalam Rumah ini, susah- lah.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Jadi, Tuan Pengerusi, saya rasa masa- alah di-luar itu tidak usah saya jawab di-sini, kalau ada peluang kita boleh berjumpa-lah di-luar tetapi di-dalam Dewan ini saya rasa tidak dapat mene- rima dengan sa-macham itu.

Tuan Pengerusi, jadi berkenaan de ngan peluru2 ini amat-lah mustahak kita perhatikan.
Barangkali ada sa- tengah2 sahabat kita dalam Dewan dia ingat masaalah kita berchakap fasal peluru ini, ada-lah masaalah biasa sahaja, tetapi orang yang ada penga- laman dalam masaalah ini, amat bimbang di-atas peluru yang kita beli daripada luar negeri itu.

Jadi saya perchaya-lah Kementerian kita ini akan dapat perhatikan sa-penoh ber kenaan dengan peluru ini.
tentera Tuan Pengerusi, ada lagi satu per- kara—satu berita, ada beberapa surat yang saya tidak perchaya sangat surat itu, boleh jadi surat terbang yang sa- mata2 hendak menimbulkan perkara yang tidak baik dalam Dewan kita ini.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, ada satu per kara yang saya rasa penting ia-itu ada-lah satu berita berkenaan dengan kedudokan Federal Military College kita di-Sungai Besi ia-itu perubahan2 baharu yang berikutan dengan gerakan2 membesarkan tentera kita, sa-bagai mana yang di-katakan oleh Menteri Pertahanan kita latehan ini, baharu akan di-adakan di-College itu dan khabar2-nya pegawai2 yang ber- tugas itu akan di-tukar atau di-ganti ia-lah 4465 2 DECEMBER 1965 4466 jawatan2 dengan pegawai2 daripada luar negeri ia-itu bukan daripada Malaysia.
Maka kalau-lah ini berlaku yang sa-benar dan akan berlaku dengan sa-benar- nya, maka saya rasa itu akan merugi- kan kita, kerana pegawai2 yang akan bertugas, melateh di-situ, sa-patut-nya- lah daripada anak negeri kita terutama pangkat kalau pangkat Adjutant, Quarter Master dan bagitu juga pangkat Depot Commandant, apa-tah lagi instructor2—guru2—baris itu.
Jadi ini, Tuan Pengerusi, orang2 Malaysian kita memegang di- samping dia menujokkan kebolehan- nya, dia juga mempunyai perasaan yang bersunggoh2 kerana dia hendak melateh anak negeri kita sendiri dengan gaji- nya murah, tetapi kalau kita bawa luar datang ka-sini—Sergeant orang Major (R.S.M.)

gaji-nya sahaja pun $1,000 lebeh.

Kalau orang kita $600.00 semua sa-kali.


Jadi ini, Tuan Penge rusi, kalau berlaku semangat kita, se- mangat melateh tidak akan dapat kita pupok kapada tentera2 kita dan sudah-lah sampai bagi kita pada masa ini, ia-itu kita tidak mahu lagi pegawai2 luar negeri di-bawa datang ka-sini pada waktu yang pegawai2 kita sendiri ada di-dalam negeri ini.

tentera itu ini tidak tiap2 Tuan Pengerusi, berkenaan dengan Latehan Udara.

Pegawai2 Udara, saya dapati anak2 Melayu amat-lah sadikit.
tahu, sama ada orang2 Saya tidak menyambut Melayu kita seruan atau pun memang peluang2 itu berkehendakkan kelayakan yang lebeh banyak yang tidak dapat di-kalangan anak2 Melayu kita atau pun anak2 bumiputera kita.

Tetapi, Tuan Penge tahun, rusi, memandang pada kita ada menerbitkan budak2 sekolah lebeh daripada 100,000 pada sa-tahun, saya rasa di-antara 100,000 itu amat- lah banyak budak2 kita yang berhajat- (service) kan kapada perkhidmatan yang kita boleh bawa mereka itu kapada latehan tentera.
Dalam dunia yang sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, ia-itu barang siapa kuat dia itu yang benar, kita bimbang negara kita kechil kalau tidak dapat memperkuatkan diri dalam lengkongan kita sendiri, kerana apabila might itu right, maka kita-lah yang terok sa-kali.

budak2 Jadi chawangan2 tidak-lah dengan menyalorkan ini, saya rasa, sa-kira-nya kita merugikan kita malah menguntongkan kapada kita.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya mengaku bahawa peruntokan bagi Kementerian Pertahanan, dari segi ekonomi merupa- tidak dapat kan unproductive, dia menguntongkan sa-suatu, kerana dia habis sa-mata2 dari segi ekonomi-nya.

Tetapi ekonomi negara kita,, Tuan Pengerusi, tidak akan dapat berjalan dengan stable kalau keamanan dan pertahanan negara kita ini tidak stable.

Ekonomi kapada bergantong keutohan tentera negara kita.
kita Akhir-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, itu-lah sahaja seruan saya ia-itu: (i) berkenaan dengan kenaikan gaji, (ii) berkenaan dengan perbelanjaan kapal2, saya (iii) berkenaan dengan peluru, (iv) saya minta ma'af kapada Tuan Pengerusi, kalau saya ada ber- chakap tersilap sadikit sa-banyak.

suka-lah memberi tetapi tahu kapada Ahli2 Dewan ini, masaalah ajak challenge di-luar itu tidak patut-lah kita kemuka- kan dalam Dewan, kerana saya anak jantan juga, Tuan Penge rusi.
Jadi saya minta ma'af-lah kapada Tuan Pengerusi, tidak dapat saya hendak menyambut seruan itu.

Kalau dia mahu saya hari2 ada di-luar.

in in that, $237,674,453—an (Dato Enche' Lim Kean Siew the Kramat): Mr Chairman, Sir, Defence Estimates 1962 was $90,029,532; it increased to some $155 million and then to $207 million; and now it has arrived at the present figure of increase, Mr Chairman, Sir, in a four year period of $147,644,919.
Of course, we all know times of emergency, defence needs must be increased, but one should also ask oneself whether or not, when is small and when the nation is weak financially, one should not see if that money can be better spent; whether one should obtain security through arms, or one should seek other means whereby to make increase of arms expenditure unnecessary and spend this money for the future of our country.
In other words, if we can solve the problem of the nation 4467 2 DECEMBER 1965 4468 increased expenditure on arms by some other means, whether it is not possible for us to spend this $147 million per year on other needs, such as, more hospitals and more schools for the training of our children, in order to give a better future for our country.
There are two ways, Mr Chairman, Sir, of ensuring the security of a country: either increase arms expendi ture, increase our military power, or seek other means or some other peace ful solution so as to remove the threat of external aggression.
In the Viet namese war, one line of action has been demonstrated clearly—the Ameri can Government feels that, because of its military power and its might, it can by force of arms seek a solution, it can, by means of more bombers, more fighters, more men, more heli copters, more tanks, seek a solution to a difficult situation.
But, Mr Chair man, Sir, it is very clear that we are not America: we have not got Flying Fortresses, we have not got atomic aircraft, we have not got the big tanks, we have not got the large helicopters, we have not got atomic submarines, we have not got battle ships—we have not even one destroyer in the Malayan Navy that is worth talking about; we have not got any four engined jet aircraft—and if we have to buy ten of that, we will be bankrupt; and even if we have ten of those jet engined big aircraft and four engined aircraft, we have no money to maintain them, nor the crew nor the personnel, nor the technical know-how; and we have not got even the tanks used by India and Pakistan in their war against each other—they have got armoured cars; they have got bren-gun carriers; we have got empty riot lorries fighting small boys; we have got reconnais sance aircraft flying at a speed of 67 miles an hour; we have not even got helicopters that can carry heavy equip ment into the Bornean jungles; we the Tentera have Wanita, the ketua of whom is here, the Honourable Member for Johore Bahru Timor; and can we imagine sending the flower of our womanhood into the jungles of Borneo by out-of- date aircraft; and are we going to risk to depend upon maiming, crippling and difiling flower of our womanhood?
the Mr Chairman, Sir, as I have said, there are two ways of solution, and I say they are necessary because of the increase of our defence accelerated expenditure: one is political and the other one is military.

Militarily speak ing, we have nothing but a toy army.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I do not like to reduce the importance of our army, but we must accept that a nation of less than 10 million people, so diver sified in our educational systems and our knowledge, so different in our political awareness, so small in per centage of secondary school graduates and university graduates, that we can not have more than a small army that can do no more than to delay an aggression upon us.

They can provide nothing more than an emergency service in time of war.
So, Mr Chair man, Sir, when the Honourable Minis ter of Defence says that our army has shown courage in the Bornean jungles, I congratulate him, but I must draw to the attention of this House that the fact is that our army in Borneo is not always in the front line—very often they are in our base, in the baseline— and we have been insulted quite a great deal by the foreign press when they show photographs of fighting in Borneo.

The foreign press is showing photographs of the Bornean fighting abroad.
They have talked about our Malaysian soldiers but have taken pictures of British soldiers.

So, we see our Malaysian soldiers with long noses and blue eyes!

Even in the recruit the ment campaign in London by Green Jackets, the advertisement was: "Come to Malaysia if you want adven ture!

Come to the front line if you want adventure" The impression given is that they are the people who have been defending the Bornean territories.

Is that true, or is that false?


I suppose if I go further than that, I might be betraying military secrets which every body knows about, anyway.

Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, our army is less than 20,000.

What is the size of is the Indonesian army, which to be confronting us— supposed 400,000: 500,000: 600,000?

And what 4469 2 DECEMBER 1965 4470 their regular armed about their armed militia, not to talk forces?

about What about their parachute battalions?

their Russian aircraft?


What about What about the American planes recently sold to them by a German?

Have we been able to stop all these arms?

When we talk about our defence, we have got to view our present situation against that of the world situation.

We have got to realise our size in comparison with the size of other nations.
to contributing Mr Chairman, Sir, I notice here that with regard to the Singapore posts for our military arm, the expenditure has now been taken off but the posts are left there, probably to be filled later on, which means we are spending no money now for the Singapore posts but the Singapore posts have not been deleted.

Am I wrong?

I am not sure.


My point is this, and it is more important than whether or not we are maintaining an army in Singapore: what is more important is how much is Singapore the defence of Malaysia?

Singapore, whose Prime Minister said in September 1963, when our Honourable Prime Minister was thinking of postponing the formation of Malaysia, the man said, "If you do not form Malaysia by the 16th of September, 1963, we will go it alone."

Now they are going it alone.


Mr Chairman, Sir, are they contributing and are they contributing enough?

Their Budget is small, it is something about 60% of our Annual Budget, but how much, we would like to know, are they contributing to our defence.

I ask this.

After all, Mr Chairman, Sir, confrontation came about—I use "confrontation" because it is the normal word, not that I agree it—because of Malaysia, and with Singapore was part of it and, there fore, must bear part of the responsi bility.
the is unfortunate Honourable Minister of Defence has not told this House what is the per their contribution.

We centage of must know it.

that It Mr Chairman, Sir, if we accept that our army cannot be big enough, can not be powerful enough militarily, there are two means of still making from ourselves most effective the military point of view.
Firstly, we must have a more efficient army, and to have a more efficient army we must have certainly better educated and better trained people, a small mobile force of experts or skilled people, not a whole mass of foot-sloggers.

Our soldiers must be able to drive cars and motor cycles, go on bicycles, live on their own and fight on their own, work behind the lines in sabotage.

They must be trained in sabotage work, in explosives and in the opera tion of wireless transmitters.
Have we got such an army personnel?

The other way is to have what I would like to call a land army, an army based on the land, an army which involves the whole of the nation, a nation of people most of whom can carry arms, if necessary, and can fight if necessary for their country—militia trained to become minor experts.

But, Mr Chair man, Sir, to do that, to get that kind of army, you must have a proper ideological system.

When we deal with that kind of army, we deal with the politics of our country.
Politically our Government must have the full support of the people, not only to obtain a majority in Parliament but a majority of people who are prepared to die for their land.

But if the land does not belong to the peasants, why should they die for it?

If the workers of this country do not feel they have a stake in this country, and only the millionaires are getting profits from the industries and their firms by making these people slog for about $80 a month, why should they die for it?
As long as the people know it, the Government cannot have a militia, because the people will not fight and the Government cannot trust the people with guns.

That is why, Mr Chairman, Sir, the confrontation, the police began to take back licences for guns and restrict the number of gun licences, and in many cases to reduce it, because they could not trust the people.
They could not trust the people because they know very well that the people have no stake in this country—not only the bumiputeras, whether as defined by the Honourable Prime Minister or recently, after 4471 2 DECEMBER 1965 4472 otherwise, but not even the immigrant people.

But, of course, to go more into it will mean that I will be starting off another debate.
So, I will restrict my remarks on this point and end up by saying that militarily again you need two types of army: a highly profes sional and skilled army, or an army of the people.

To have an army of the people, you must have an ideology of Government which will give to the people, the peasants and the workers of this country, a stake in this country, which we have not got.

If we cannot achieve this, then the second way is open to us, that is a political solution.
are the today time—in infamous independent I quoted the example of America in Vietnam.
I would like to quote the example now of countries like Nepal, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark and Portugal—Mr even Chairman, Sir, these are small coun tries, and they could have been over run at any time; they could have been taken over at any fact, Finland lies next to Russia—and yet they and sovereign States, with Switzerland having a compulsory national service and a civilian population who can be armed and who can fight at any time; and with Sweden and Norway not having an armed militia at all, yet those people have been able to be independent.
They have not been threatened.

Why?

Their solution lay in increased armed expenditure, not but in political solution.

Those coun tries realised that if they did not take on an external aggressive policy, or an external policy which would aggravate they would their bigger neighbours, not have to spend money on arms but they could spend their money on more schools, more old age benefits, higher wages for their people and in more hospitals.
At Malaya, we do not even have a proper insurance for our workers, and the need for insurance is so great that we came to Parliament the other day and passed a Bill insuring ourselves and allowing the reporters to come to and fro without insurance, so that if they get killed by a car it is just too bad, I mention the reporters only as an example.

There are other people cafe teria workers, canteen workers, and so the moment, on—who are not under Government employ in this House, but that is by the way.
that Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, coming back to my topic, Singapore was, to some extent, responsible for the situa tion.

Singapore's contribution, we do not know; we know they are sending a regiment to Borneo—that is all.

But Singapore is trying to seek another way out already.

Singapore to have Pulau Senang as a tried trading centre the exchange of for goods between Indonesia and Singa pore.

Singapore sent its Deputy Prime Minister on a tour to win friends on the "left" and in the "middle".
They have tried to win the friendship of Cambodia, of Pakistan, of the Arab countries and the African countries of the Afro-Asian group.

What have we done to switch our external line in order to lessen the confrontation pres sure and therefore lessen our defence needs?
of the and the to statement Even in the case of the war between Pakistan India, our Malayan Government came up with not a neutral stand but a nebulous stand supporting our the United Nations, Ambassador Enche' Ramani, and publishing his statement, proving in fact that what they said thought Enche' Ramani Enche' Ramani did not say, and in impression Enche' Ramani fact tried to create was not the impression that the Government thought he was creating.
Anyone who reads the speech carefully will find that he lists a whole list of aggressive acts by Pakistan—it does not mention about India—and, therefore, gave the impres sion that he was taking sides, and our Malaysian Government made it even the worse by saying other thing, the opposite of what he had said, instead of coming out clearly to say, "Look, we stand for peace, we line, we the demarcation stand for agreements international for stand under the United Nations" and sticking to is it and say whoever aggresses wrong.
that he meant anything Now, I come, Mr Chairman, Sir, to our Afro-Asian brothers.

I call them brothers.

Some people think they are 4473 2 DECEMBER 1965 4474 not very good brothers.

Some people think they are good brothers; some people think they are bad brothers.

But, never mind, let us call them our brothers or our friends—members of the Afro-Asian Comity.

We know that the Afro-Asian Comity dislikes the American attitude in Vietnam.

What is our stand then?

I leave it at that.


Do I have to illustrate it?

I do not think so.

to go further than to stand Now, Singapore has made attempts at friendship and attempts to neutralise in her stand so as the to all, in "middle" and be friendly order to develop her entrepot trade and in order to cut down her defence expenditure.

We on the other hand, are not only killing Penang by taking away the entrepot trade but we have made no efforts to seek this solution.
We say instead, "We have a good friend.

We have a Defence Treaty with England.

We must depend upon England to defend us."

But what does the present Mr Michael Stewart, Foreign Secretary the British of Government say?
He says the quarrel is between Indonesia and Malaysia, and he has even given the impression that whatever is the outcome of the political struggle in Indonesia, con frontation will continue and that we should, in fact, reconsider the whole Malaysian set-up and see whether or not a new Federation can be formed— "a loose kind of Federation", I think were his words—or "a looser kind of Federation which will have the good will and the support of the majority of the people of the Bornean terri tories".
Mr Chairman, Sir, if even the British Government is now considering a solution—that we should cut down our defence needs by political action, then how can we say that it is wrong?

At the present rate—I come to my next point—if we do not seek a solution and we do not political attempt to change our policy on defence by having a different type of army, or an to inform the people—the workers and the peasants—what will happen to us if the present trend continues?
ideological system I think, Mr Chairman, Sir, to sum it all up, we will only become a to cap the Terendak Camp British base for as long as Britain has interests here and can profit from this country.

We are slowly but surely becoming an armed camp.

And the unfortunate, thing, Mr the pitiful Chairman, Sir, the sadness of it all, is that this camp will not be under our control but under the control of the British Army.
I list these things: the is under British Butterworth Base is command, under British command, the Kluang Detachment is under British command, the Singapore Naval Base is under the new Air British command and in the process of Bases which are being built would come under British command.

And it all, Mr Chairman, Sir, we have only one place which has light and which shines in beautiful this gloomy picture—the island of Penang; and yet on top of they are putting up a that military base.
last election In my campaigns when I went down there I could see helicopter after helicopter carrying equipment through there to Tiger Hill or Western Hill.

Why could they not have put the base in Kedah peak, I wonder?

It is higher, it is more barren, it is bigger and there are less people to kill.

Why put it in Penang Hill and make Penang a danger zone, so that even tourists will be scared of going there (Laughter)?
In fact, I suspect this is what I would call a "subversive attempt" of the Minister of Finance to prevent people from going to Penang to buy cheap goods, so that we may not live off the fat of our land.

Island heavy huge, that, everybody Mr Chairman, Sir, these bases are beyond our control.

These bases make us more dependent upon British power.

These bases, therefore, make our country less independent.

I know.
I know.

Mr Chairman, Sir, are that we politically—everybody independent acknowledges says that, but is not only political, as it carries with it other things.

To be fully independent, we must be under no foreign economic pressure, we must be under no foreign military pressure, and we must be under no foreign cultural pressure.

As soon as we see our youths playing the trousers and guitar, wearing independence tight 4475 2 DECEMBER 1965 4476 singing beat music, we know they are under western influence.
To that extent we cannot be independent.

And if we see in our army, all officers, senior officers or most of the senior officers, except for one or two for the purpose maybe of propaganda, effectively being people seconded from other armies or people who are not Malaysian citizens, then we must question whether or not in the end we are right.

Should we fight and die or sell ourselves into slavery simply because the emperor can pay our family more tahils of silver?
This is the question that we have to decide.

We have not got an army this that is effective, nor can army defend our country.

Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, let us deal with the smaller points of this budget proposals.

One sees on page 169, Sub head 39, Secret Services.

In 1965— $6,500; in 1966 "nil".

We are spending not one cent on our Secret Services.

Why is it that in 1966, we are not spending one cent?

In 1965 we spent $6,500.

Is it because the Secret Services had made a blunder of it?
We need the Secret Services.

Usually the secret intelligence goes and finds out what is happening and gives reports, and the fact that the Secret Services have been removed means that they must have blundered somehow, somewhere.

So, my mind went back to 1964—election they time—and made those blunders.
First of all, big statements that Indonesian parachutes have been dropped in Telok Anson— everybody got frightened: Indonesian parachutes have been dropped—photo graphs were taken, but it turned out they were not Indonesian parachutes at all after the elections; they were Malayan Air Force parachutes which were dropped in error, and they had, in fact, Air Force markings.

So, our intelligence must have made a blunder there.

I discovered how Enche' Tan Chee Khoon: Not really intelligent!
Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Not very intelligent, but honest maybe.

Well, they must have Mr Chairman, Sir, made that one blunder.

The next thing was as I said, my mind went back at the report to also dropped that parachutes again were the Thai border—parachutes had been found at the Thai border, in Upper Perak, in Kedah—and I think our Honourable Minister of Defence even went all the way up.

Then suddenly the parachutes disappeared—I do not know what happened to them.
Dr Lim Swee Aun: Maybe they were the the members of removed by Socialist Front!

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Chair man, Sir, if they were removed by members of the Socialist Front, you should put us Intelligence in (Laughter).

See how bright we are!

the Dr Lim Swee Aun: Sir, they probably have good intelligence.

That is why they are against Malaysia.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Chair man, Sir, I knew that they might talk of the Socialist Front in Kedah and Penang and so on.

So, my mind went to the P.M.I.P.


territory.

This time it is P.A.S.

not us—Bachok, Kelantan.

Again, foot-prints were found on the sand walking up and walking back into the sea and a case of ammunition was put on the Shore.

A submarine left the east coast of Sumatra went all the way south of round Malaya, Singapore and went up to north of Malaya and left a case of ammunition there, and it was promptly discovered by our Local Defence Corps—not Tentera Wanita unfortunately, but by the male members thereof.
(Laughter).

Again, the case of ammunition seemed thought to have disappeared.

So, I they have that was why perhaps decided not intelligence to have an and they have decided to remove it— is unnecessary expenditure.

Mr it Chairman, Sir, I was wondering where they spent all that money.

And how is our army set up?


Of course, the Honourable Minister of Defence said that they are spending more money on the Tentera Wanita so that they may join up with our men and go together to defend our country—how together, and what togetherness, we don't know (Laughter).

But I see, Mr Chairman, Sir, the Marriage Allow this ances have been increased their in is 4477 2 DECEMBER 1965 4478 Budget and have also been increased.
the number of bidans Enche' Tan Chee Khoon: May I ask the Government benchers if that is the reason for this togetherness?

Dr Lim Swee Aun: That is in the minds of the Socialist Front who are only thinking of bidans, and nothing else.

(Laughter).

this item increased and Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Sir, it is not in our minds.

And also Nursing Sisters have been I itself may have been thought accidental.

But we also find Female Religious Teachers have also been increased.
For example in Bahagian 3, Page 155 (67)—Guru Ugama Perempuan (Female Religious Teach ers)—16.

Then we come to page 159 Bahagian 3 again, item (168), Senior Religious Teachers, this time—8.

Then we come lower down to item (178)— Guru Ugama Rendah, this is Junior Religious Teachers—14—of course, I won't deal with the bidans, and then on page 160, item (182) again Guru Ugama Perempuan (Female Religious Teachers)—17.
Then, Mr Chairman, Sir, we have on top of that Entertain ment Allowances which also show an increase.

Entertainment for the Ten- tera2 Wanita or entertainment for I don't know.

But, anyway, what, entertainment has been in one Head alone from nothing.

Item (330) at page 167 under Division E— Entertainment Allowance $1,067,192 and immediately following that comes Marriage Allowance of $12,240—it is very unfortunate that they put them together all the time.
And then again, Mr Chairman, Sir, at page 165— Entertainment Allowance, item (283) from $94,000 approximately it has increased to $159,400 and immediately following that again Marriage Allow ance last time $10 now $7,200.

So, one the wonders whether or not intention of the Honourable Minister of Defence to increase the number of our army by having greater number of marriages.
increased is it Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah (Hilir Perak): Tuan Pengerusi, saya menyatakan sukachita saya dan soko- ngan saya kapada peruntokan yang di- berikan kapada Kementerian Perta hanan sa-banyak $237,674,453 lebeh itu untok pertahanan negara kita.
Pertahanan negara kita ini, kalau kita lihat daripada peruntokan2 dari tahun2 yang telah sudah, nyata-lah bahawa peruntokan ini bertambah dari satu tahun ka-satu tahun, oleh kerana me- mentingkan dan memandang penting- nya kapada kedudokan kita di-dalam sa-buah negara yang sedang di-ancham luar.
Banyak oleh musoh kita dari barangkali dari telah timbul daripada peruntokan pertahanan kita bagi tahun ini, ada yang meman dang berhawa barangkali peruntokan ini tidak bagitu chukup, dan oleh kerana tidak chukup-nya itu menyebab- kan kita ini terpaksa, kata mereka, menggantongkan nasib kita kapada pertahanan daripada Kerajaan lain.
fikiran2 yang Tuan Pengerusi, kita tahu bahawa sa-buah negara yang kita ada-lah maseh muda bukan sahaja negara kita ini maseh muda di-dalam kemerdekaan- nya, tetapi juga di-dalam pertahanan- nya dan dalam semua hidang perusa- haan kita.

Oleh kerana kemudaan kita di-dalam kemerdekaan ini, kita nampak bahawa banyak kekurangan2 yang kita rasakan perlu di-lalui oleh masa dan process keadaan kita itu sendiri.
Walau pun ada orang memikirkan terutama- nya bagi pehak2 Pembangkang, bahawa pertahanan kita ini perlu-lah di-penohi oleh ra'ayat negeri ini sendiri berban- ding dengan apa yang di-punyai oleh Kerajaan yang menentang kita, um- pama Indonesia yang mempunyai askar- nya lebeh daripada 400,000 orang, kita perlu mempunyai kedudokan per sa-imbang tahanan dengan negara2 itu.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, walau pun Indonesia mempunyai per tahanan dan mempunyai askar, tentera yang chukup, yang banyak, apa-kah akibat daripada itu?
Sebab, Indonesia itu sendiri tidak mempunyai daya un tok membelanjai tentera-nya dan untok melengkapi tentera-nya dengan semua kelengkapan2, di-Indonesia kerana sendiri tidak mempunyai factory2 atau kilang2 membuat senjata, membuat sa-umpama-nya, kapal membuat kapal selam, kapal perang terbang, dan yang 4479 2 DECEMBER 1965 4480 itu juga kapada dan sa-bagai-nya.
Maka oleh kerana Indonesia mahukan per- tahanan-nya itu sedangkan kemam- puan-nya tidak bagitu ada, akhir-nya terpaksa-lah dia menyembah negara2 luar untok mendapatkan ke- lengkapan2 ini.
Untok mendapatkan bantuan daripada luar, Indonesia ter- paksa menggunakan satu ideology di- dalam perjuangan politik dalam negeri dan luar negeri, ia-itu menentang apa juga chorak penjajahan,; baik dari pada British, Amerika dan apa juga yang ada di-dalam dunia ini di- sifatkan-nya sa-bagai musoh, sa-kali pun negara2 itu tidak banyak mengan- cham kedudokan Indonesia sendiri, te- tapi oleh kerana negeri yang berhada- pan dengan negara Amerika dan ia-lah negara2 kominis, Britain maka terpaksa-lah Indonesia menyata- kan negara sokongan-nya kapada kominis untok menentang apa yang di-namakan imperialist, dan penjajahan dengan tujuan supaya dengan dasar itu dia mendapat sokongan benda2 per tahanan dari negara2 itu sendiri, teru- tama-nya dari negeri China kominis dan daripada negeri Russia.
Daripada ke- dua2 buah negara ini-lah pada faham saya, Indonesia mendapat alat2 per- kapal tahanan-nya dan perang-nya, semua daripada negara2 ini dengan polisi dan dasar politik-nya menentang imperialist.
Te- tapi, Tuan Pengerusi, Indonesia yang saperti ini tidak memberi keuntongan kapada Indonesia sendiri, sebab negara kominis tidak akan senang dan tidak akan puas hati dengan segala bantuan yang di-berikan kapada Indonesia dengan tidak mendapat keuntongan daripada pemberian itu, dan akhir-nya Indonesia menjadi alat sa-chara lang- langsong, song, atau tidak sa-chara kapada negara2 kominis di-luar Indo nesia sendiri dengan menjadikan Parti Kominis Indonesia sa-bagai ajent yang terbesar daripada negara2 kominis di- Indonesia sendiri.
sejak senjata, di-dapati perkakas daripada sa-kali Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): Untok penjelasan, Tuan Pengerusi, kami se- karang membinchangkan pertahanan Indonesia atau pun pertahanan Malay sia?

Mr Chairman: Pertahanan Malaysia, tetapi dia akan tiba ka-situ-lah!
yang chakap tahu-lah Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau Ahli Yang Ber daripada Batu mengikuti hormat uchapan Ahli dia sa-belah tadi, maka kita di- kemukakan-nya itu tidak sama sa-kali ada sangkut paut-nya dengan perta hanan kita, tetapi kemudian dia mem- bandingkan dan saya pun chuba mem- bandingkan soal ini.
Tuan Pengerusi, apa yang berlaku di-dalam pertahanan Indonesia dengan empat ratus ribu tentera daripada alat2 yang di-dapat daripada negara kominis yang saya katakan tadi bahawa negara kominis tidak akan memberi sa-barang itu sebab2 bantuan, melainkan dengan politik sa-balek-nya itu.
Maka jadi-lah Parti Kominis Indonesia itu sa-bagai alat, sa-bagai ajen yang terbesar sa- kali bagi negara kominis, terutama-nya Kominis China bagi memasokkan ideology faham politik yang di-punya'i oleh negara China Kominis itu.

Akhir- nya, apa-kah yang telah berlaku pada 30 September, tahun ini?

Saya hen- dak bertanya kapada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat daripada Batu, daripada PAS, daripada Datok Keramat, apa-kah dia mahu berlaku-nya peristewa 30 Sep tember di-Malaysia ini?
Sebab apa yang kita dengar daripada uchapan Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Batu— ma'af daripada Datok Keramat—dan daripada PAS, daripada Bachok me- nyatakan bahawa pertahanan kita ini tidak chukup dan perlu di-tambah, dan dan anggota-nya menchabar Ahli2 Perikatan di-sini hanya pandai dudok sahaja dalam Dewan ini dengan mendapat elaun $35 sa-hari, penakut, chabaran daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari pada Bachok pada mula dia bercha- kap sa-kira-nya Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Bachok satu orang anak jantan, dia tidak akan lari di-bawah meja—belum berhada- pan dengan musoh, hanya na' suroh menari changgong sahaja malam tadi pun dia tuang—lari—penge- chut—yang tidak ada dua dan tolok sanggup banding-nya!
Ada-kah dia berhadapan dengan tentera Indonesia tadi.

Tetapi, kalau di-tambah ini satu sudah perlu 4481 2 DECEMBER 1965 4482 yang di-lengkapi oleh senjata2 daripada Russia, dari China Kominis?

Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato Keramat): On a point of clarification, the Honourable Member who is just speaking has crossed the floor.

You must be careful so that he may not cross the country one day {Ketawa).

tidak mahu di-besarkan tentera Malay sia ini?


Kerana tadi Ahli Yang Ber hormat "ada-kah itu ada berkata, Wakil PAS dan Wakil Dato Kramat ini mahu tentera kita di-besarkan dan berulang-nya sejarah 30 September di- itu Indonesia mithal-nya?"

Ada-kah sebab2 maka pasokan tentera Malaysia ini tidak boleh di-perbesarkan?
Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, biar-lah saya ta' layan chakap orang yang memang sudah ta' betul di-dalam pertimbangan akal dan fikiran-nya, kerana harus agak-nya ter- lalu seronok dengan kemenangan di- dalam pilehan raya yang baharu ini sa- hingga chakap-nya luar biasa sejak enam tujoh tahun Parlimen ini ber- sidang dan Ahli dari Datok Keramat itu sa-orang daripada anggota-nya.
Saya terchengang sa-orang yang mempunyai capacity—loyar mempunyai chakap2 yang keanak2an dan kebudak2an di- dalam Dewan ini.

Tuan Pengerusi, saya tinggalkan soal itu, saya ingin menya- takan, apa-kah yang telah berlaku sa- telah kita ini ingin hendak membe- sarkan tentera kita.

Kata-lah kita hendak mempertandingkan kekuatan tentera Indonesia, kerana nampak-nya Indonesia merupakan.

Satu negara yang bertentangan dengan kita pada sa'at sekarang ini.
400,000 tentera—400,000 tentera, kalau kita hendak mempunyai tentera yang sa-banyak itu, sa-banyak 400,000 tentera, maka kita patut me- nyedari perbelanjaan yang mungkin di- telan oleh tentera yang bagini besar jumlah-nya.
Sa-orang tentera—pukul rata belanjaan-nya sa-banyak $4,000 sa-tahun dan kalau 400,000 tentera kita yang kita recruit daripada negeri kita ini sendiri, kerana hendak memperse- tandingakan kekuatan kita dengan kekuatan Indonesia—belanja gaji sa- haja, kita terpaksa menggunakan wang sa-banyak $1,600 juta—erti-nya ke- selurohan Budget ini kita berikan ka- pada Pertahanan dan gaji askar2 itu sahaja dan Ahli Dewan Ra'ayat Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji: Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta jalan sadikit.
Ada-kah maksud Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Hilir Perak takut berulang-nya sejarah 30 ini September di-Indonesia itu, sebab itu Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Pasir Mas Hulu, sayang, kerana dia baharu masok Melayu dan tidak faham berchakap Melayu.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: On point of clarification, Sir, I think he referred to jny qualification just now as a lawyer but I do not know whether or not it is true he was at one time a Indonesian Armed member of Forces.
the Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah bisekan dari pada Ahli PAS yang saya nampak tadi sa-bagai sa-suatu apa yang di-namakan character assasination yang akan di- keluarkan oleh Perdana Menteri bagi- mana tektik pehak Pembangkang untok membunoh—suatu character sa-sarong di-dalam potensi, di-dalam kekuatan- nya, di-dalam politik negara kita ini.

Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji: Untok penjelasan, Tuan Penge rusi.
Tuan Pengerusi, Yang Berhormat itu ada berchakap menyentoh peribadi saya mengatakan saya masok Melayu boleh jadi orang ta' faham; nanti dia kata saya ini mualap atau apa-kah, kalau saya masok Melayu, dia itu pun bukan Melayu, dia itu Jawa—Jawa yang kedua!

Yang ketiga mahu-kah saya men- cheritakan ka-dalam Dewan ini, apa- kah yang di-lakukan oleh Yang Ber hormat daripada Hilir Perak ini sa- masa ia menjadi tentera dalam pasokan Pemberontak Republik Indonesia?
Mahu-kah saya mencheritakan apa-kah yang di-lakukan oleh saudara ini di- Indonesia dalam Dewan ini?

Hu-lah kejadian2 dan kesah2 pelarian-nya .

.

.

4483 2 DECEMBER 1965 4484 Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: lebeh berhak Tuan Pengerusi, saya mencheritakan di-dalam Dewan ini daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari pada Pasir Mas Hulu; dia tidak tahu apa yang berlaku.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, sa-masa saya dudok dengan dia dahulu dia cheritakan habis kapada saya (Ketawa).
Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, biar-lah saya terang- kan asas daripada yang saya sebutkan tadi, ia-itu apa-kah bagi pehak Pem- bangkang, PAS atau Socialist Front, mahu berlaku apa yang di-sebutkan 30 September di-Indonesia, ia-itu pem- berontakan kominis merebut kekua- saan sa-chara kekerasan, membunoh askar2 dan orang 'awam, membunoh ulama2 Islam dan menghanchorkan apa yang di-sebut keyakinan berugama di- Indonesia.

Apa-kah orang PAS mahu kejadian yang saperti itu?


Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji: Tuan Pengerusi, apa beza-nya dengan kominis Indonesia dengan Peri- katan yang menangkap Tok2 Guru PAS?

(Tepok).

Mr Chairman: Order!

Order!

Will you please allow the Honourable Mem ber to continue with his speech.
Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah yang saya kata- kan bahawa apa yang di-chakapkan oleh orang2 Yang Berhormat dari PAS, hanya pandai membuka mulut, tetapi tidak pandai menggunakan kepala di- dalam uchapan-nya.
Di-dalam kita membahathkan soal Pertahanan, kita mesti-lah memikirkan akibat daripada sa-suatu yang kita datangkan kapada sa-suatu ranchangan yang boleh menimbulkan terlibat-nya negara kita ini menjadi alat kapada sa-suatu ideology politik luar negeri, saperti yang pernah kita dengar ber- tahun2 di-dalam perbahathan Per tahanan kapada ini.
Kita mahu Pertahanan negara kita dari kita sendiri, tidak chukup dengan keadaan yang ada sekarang, kita akui, bukan tidak kita akui bahawa Pertahanan kita yang tahun tentera kominis sebab ini-lah yang tidak chukup, tetapi tidak chukup Per tahanan kita ini, kita rasakan, sa-telah kita menghadapi apa yang di-namakan konfrantasi dari Indonesia dan sa- belum daripada ini kita tidak merasa dan kita tidak pula menengok bahawa tentera kita yang ada sekarang tidak chukup, ada telah meng sekarang hadapi musoh 12 lama-nya ia-itu musoh kominis dan tentera yang ada sekarang ini-lah juga yang telah berjaya menghapuskan dharurat dalam negeri ini.
Bagi fahaman kita, kalau ini sa-kadar kominis dalam negeri sahaja, atau pun kaki-tangan2, tali- barut2 yang menyeludup masok ka-dalam pertubohan2 ugama, pertubohan2 atau masok ka-dalam politik, itu sahaja yang menjadi musoh, maka tentera kita yang ada sekarang sudah chukup.

Tetapi, kita rasakan tidak qhukupinya, kerana kita ber- hadapan dengan suatu kekuatan tentera luar negeri dengan di-namakan ke kuatan tentera Indonesia.
Kita setuju, baik-lah kita bersetuju sekarang ini, mithal-nya, kita hendak menaikkan jumlah jumlah tentera kita daripada yang ada jumlah sekarang kapada 400,000 orang, belanja-nya itu-lah, kata saya tadi, 400,000 orang—sa-orang ten tera biasa pukul rata perbelanjaan-nya sa-banyak $4,000 sa-tahun, chuba-lah jumlahkan kalau 400,000 tentera.

Itu sahaja.

Tentera yang banyak gaji dengan tidak ada senjata, tidak guna juga, tidak ada faedah.
Tujuan kita tentera yang banyak, chukup dengan alat kelengkapan, alat peperangan, persenjatakan dan kelengkapan2 yang lain, sa-umpama kita.

Kalau hendak Indonesia.

Satu menanding dengan ribu kapal sa-buah kapal terbang harga-nya $2 juta, kalau 1,000 buah berapa pula harga-nya, dan kalau satu senjata harga-nya $1,000— 400,000 senjata berapa harga-nya?
Akhir-nya, semua kekayaan negeri ini sa-mata2, di-hisap oleh Pertahanan tidak ber- akibat-nya pembangunan jalan, akibat-nya pembangunan negara tidak ada ran changan kemajuan negara tidak akan berjalan dan rasa saya ini-lah yang di- kehendaki oleh Socialist Front dan ini juga yang di-kehendaki oleh PAS .

.

.. lanchar, akibat-nya terbang.

Kalau 4485 2 DECEMBER 1965 4486 AN HONOURABLE MEMBER : Betul!

Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: ini taraf hidup supaya ranchangan .

.
.

.. tidak berjalan dan mana-kala ranchangan ini tidak berjalan, taraf hidup ra'ayat tidak di-naikkan, kedudokan negara betul, tidak ada stability di-dalam ekonomi, tidak ada kekuatan di-dalam perindus- trian, di-dalam usaha2 hendak menaik- kan ra'ayat, akhir-nya ra'ayat lapar, ra'ayat susah dan orang ini juga yang akan memanching di- ayer yang keroh ini.

Lihat-lah Kera jaan Perikatan, di-perbesarkan tentera dan di-laparkan perut ra'ayat, jadi-lah cherita Sukarno di-Indonesia.
Apa-kah ini yang mereka mahu?

Apa-kah dasar jujor, yang di- mereka katakan ini?

Apa-kah ini sa-orang Islam yang benar2 berchakap apa yang di-lidah dan apa Ini-lah chakapan2 yang di-hati-nya?

munafik yang di-lakukan oleh orang2 PAS di-dalam Dewan ini dan di-luar Dewan ini sendiri, berchakap hendak mempertahankan tanah ayer, bercha kap hendak mempertahankan negara .

.

itu yang jujor terhadap negara Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: tidak patut, itu Perkataan munafik Tuan Pengerusi.
Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: berchakap hendak memper .

.

.. tahankan bangsa, berchakap hendak bersama2 dengan Kerajaan Negeri ini, meminta bantuan, sokongan, bagitu dan bagini, tetapi bila sampai keluar— mereka mempunyai lidah berchabang dua saperti biawak.

Ini-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, yang patut kita sedari, yang patut kita insafi benar2 dalam soal pertahanan negara.
Sebab kita nampak chontoh nampak chontoh yang paling dekat sa-kali ia- itu Indonesia—Indonesia sudah men- jadi alat, menjadi perkakas kapada Kominis China.

Wan Hassan bin Wan Daud (Tumpat): Tuan Pengerusi, di-bawah Kepala berapa Yang Berhormat ini berchakap?

Nampak-nya dari tadi lagi tidak masok2.

Kepala mana pun lagi.

Pechahan Kepala berapa dia bercha kap itu?


Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, supaya mempunyai" 'adat dan sopan dalam Dewan ini, kalau saya tidak membenarkan ber chakap dia mesti dudok.

Enche' Mustapha bin Ahmad: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau di-katakan PAS itu biawak, dia kata anjing menyalak .

.

.

Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Standing Order nombor berapa dia berchakap?

ada Mr Chairman: Jangan-lah sampai anjing menyalak.

Saya beri peluang, baik pun PAS, baik mana parti pun.
Saya tidak ada Parti.

Saya beri peluang berchakap, tetapi kalau tuan2 berbangkit—interrupt macham itu—nanti saya tidak beri berchakap lagi.

sana saya daripada Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya kata sa-benar- nya saya hendak mencheritakan soal ini, oleh sebab saya tahu bahawa Ahli2 tidak sahabat berapa senang, kalau saya hendak ber- uchap dia takut saya hendak bantai dia!
Tetapi, saya hendak menerangkan kapada orang yang telah di-kelabui kepala-nya dengan chakap2, dengan teori2 yang melangit tinggi.

Kalau sa-kira-nya, kata saya tentera tadi, kita ini di-tambah kekuatan-nya dari pada anak negeri ini sendiri, kerana bukan hendak mempertahankan negeri di-dalam-nya, tetapi hendak menan- dingi kekuatan negara luar—Indonesia, maka kita akan memakan belanja yang terlalu banyak.
Semua sa-kali ranchangan pembangunan tidak akan berjalan, gaji tidak akan berjalan, Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Bachok tidak akan dapat elaun, Parlimen kita tidak akan bersidang, sebab semua wang kita akan di-churahkan kapada pertahanan apa-kah kemajuan sa-sudah itu, akibat, saperti kata saya lapar, ra'ayat akan mendapat ke- hidupan yang baik.

Bila ra'ayat lapar, kehidupan yang baik tidak sempurna, kekuatan ekonomi kita tidak terjamin.
Benda2 yang di-perlukan oleh ra'ayat akan melambong tinggi—harga-nya akan melambong tinggi.

Black market akan keliaran di-merata2 dalam dunia tanah ayer kita ini.

Akhir-nya, mata tadi, ra'ayat akan sa-mata2.

tidak Jadi 4487 2 DECEMBER 1965 4488 telor kita wang kita jatoh saperti yang berlaku di-Indonesia—sa-butir ter- paksa membeli 10 ribu rupiah.

Ini akibat-nya.
Ini akibat-nya.

Betul kita boleh tunjok kapada orang tentera kita bagus— gagah; Air Force kita bukan main lagi tetapi apa ma'ana-nya ini semua kalau ra'ayat sengsara, kalau ra'ayat tidak dapat hidup—tentu-lah ra'ayat melarat, bila ini melarat, di-sini-lah datang anasir2 kominis, pehak2 Pem- bangkang akan champor di-dalam me- rosakkan lagi pereko- nomian kita lebeh banyak ra'ayat .

.

.. Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: {Banguri).


Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya rasa, saya harap Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada PAS mempunyai ber- peluang chakap; dia hendak kachau saya ber- chakap, lagi panjang hendak berchakap, sampai habis pukul 1.00 nanti.

hendak saya Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Kalau sa-kira-nya dia bagi, kalau dia tidak bagi .

.

.. Mr Chairman: Kalau hendak ber- tanya, on a point of order, atau apa?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Saya minta penjelasan.
Mr Chairman: Kalau penjelasan itu dia boleh bagi.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Kalau dia ta' bagi, saya dudok-lah.

Mr Chairman: Dia ta' beri.

Tuan Haji Othman bin Abdullah: Tuan Pengerusi, orang PAS ini hendak menjadikan Dewan ini macham kedai kopi sahaja nampak-nya.

Tuan Penge rusi, ini-lah akibat yang akan timbul daripada itu.
Jadi kerana itu-lah kita mempunyai dasar, mempunyai chara, hendak memperkembangkan, hendak ini memperluaskan pertahanan kita sa-langkah demi sesuai dengan perkembangan ekonomi negeri ini.

Erti-nya, kalau sa-kira-nya kita dapat wang yang banyak daripada tetapkan pada anggaran yang kita sa-langkah, terpaksa-lah kita tiap2 tahun, kita boleh menambah kekuatan kita sesuai dengan per- imbangan wang yang masok ka-dalam negara kita.
Tetapi, kalau sa-kira-nya kedudokan ekonomi kita ini merusut, harga getah jatoh, harga bijeh timah jatoh, dan yang lain2 jatoh, berma'ana kalau kita hendak membesarkan juga tentera kita, ini makin lama makin kurang kedudokan dan harga nilai mata wang kita sendiri.
"Di-samping hendak mempertahankan negara, kita harus mempertahankan perut ra'ayat dan mempertahankan kedudokan ekonomi ini, sa- yang kuat di-dalam negeri bagaimana yang telah saya katakan sahaja tadi, Tuan Pengerusi, kuat tentera, gagah tentera, pun sahaja tidak akan berfaedah!
kita ini kita, yang sudah burok, ikan di-tengah Erti-nya, Tuah, lebeh dan Tuan Pengerusi, kalau kita me nengok kapada pertahanan kita dan melihat kapada pembangunan kapada kita mempunyai pertahanan harapan chemerlang di-masa hadapan.

Chemerlang saya katakan, kerana kita akan membesarkan lagi pertahanan negara kita dari satu masa ka-satu masa.
Bila Ahli Yang Ber hormat daripada Bachok mencherita- kan soal kapal kita ini sudah lapok, kapal kita saya teringat-lah cherita bagaimana ahli2 daripada Singapura dahulu mencherita- kan dalam Dewan ini bahawa kapal sama macham kapal2 perang kita laut Selat penchari perang Melaka.

itu, Seri kita Hang ini, tidak kurang sa-besar kapal penangkap ikan sahaja kata dia.

Sekarang Singapura sudah merdeka, Singapura sudah mempunyai kekuatan sendiri, beli-lah kapal perang yang besar2, chuba tengok.
Buat-lah tentera beratus2 ribu macham Indo nesia, kalau tidak tergadai Singapura itu nanti.

Jadi, ini-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, soal-nya, soal chakap, soal teori, tetapi kita Perikatan bukan berpegang kapada teori sahaja, tetapi kita mengamalkan, kita melihat dan kita menengok, kita merasakan sa-berat2 mata memandang, berat lagi bahu yang memikul.
Dia berat mata memandang; kita tidak chukup, kapal kita tidak tidak elok, askar kita terbang, peluru kita chukup; kapal daripada Kerajaan kapal Seri tidak 4489 2 DECEMBER 1965 4490 itu chakap tidak chukup; senang, tetapi untok membiayai kapal perang, untok membiayai kapal terbang, untok membiayai kapal selam, untok mem- beli peluru berpandu, untok membeli jet—kapal terbang jet—ini saya rasa hanya akan dapat kita lakukan mana- kala kedudokan perekonomian negara dan perindustrian negara ini bertambah satu masa ka-satu masa.
daripada tua2 ada Pepatah berkata orang tidak di-bena bahawa kota Rome dalam satu hari sahaja.

ini ra'ayat Malaysia Tuan Pengerusi, bukan-lah ber- ma'ana di-sini bahawa kita tidak yakin dengan kekuatan yang ada pada kita, bukan kita tidak yakin bahawa bangsa kita, bahawa ini mempunyai semangat yang kuat bagi mempertahankan negara kita.
Kalau tidak ada, sa-kira-nya semangat tidak akan hapus-lah tentera Indonesia yang mendarat di-Pontian yang sa- mata2 daripada ra'ayat yang ta'at setia, kalau tidak ini, tidak ada sa- kerana semangat orang anak kechil yang pergi mengadu kapada pehak polis menyatakan pen- daratan di-pantai Pontian, Kukup, tetapi malang-nya anak ini tidak mendapat bintang Hang agak-nya di-pandang Tuah kerana bahawa perwira, bukan-lah satu pahlawan.
ini bukan kerjasama Indonesia askar2 dengan satu Tetapi bagi saya sendiri, bagi kita sendiri, memandang ini-lah semangat— semangat Hang Tuah—yang tidak akan kunjong padam di-dalam semangat orang yang menchintai" negara ini.
Ini- lah satu bukti yang terang kapada kita bahawa ra'ayat negeri ini sedia ber- korban, sedia bekerja, sedia berusaha, sedia berperang, saperti Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Dato Kramat mengatakan daripada tentera kita di-Borneo itu tidak masok hutan, tidak ada di-border, tidak ada di-perbatasan, di-garis hadapan—ta' ada.

Dari mana dia dapat tahu cherita ini?

Dari mana dia dapat tahu yang mengatakan bahawa tentera kita tidak ada di-garisan hadapan?
Ada-kah dia ilham daripada pasokan2 mendapat kominis pun di-Indonesia; macham mana?

Kalau sa-kira-nya dia tidak mendapat information ini dari pada pehak musoh, bagaimana dia kebanyakan atau dapat tahu bahawa tentera kita tidak ada di-garisan depan.

Apa yang saya tahu, tentera kita itu berada di-garisan hadapan dan ada mereka berkata bahawa tentera, kita melihat apa yang di-lakukan oleh tentera di-seberang Ini menunjokkan itu.
sempadan bahawa Ahli daripada parti Pembang- kang atau Ahli Yang Berhormat dari tahu pada Datok Keramat hanya mencheritakan tidak sa-suatu yang patut.

Tudohan yang tidak baik ter- hadap Pertahanan Negara kita ini sa-akan2 satu pembochoran terhadap pertahanan negara kita kapada musoh.
Tuan Pengerusi, ini-lah yang saya minta perhatian, kalau sa-kira-nya kita di-dalam pertahanan ini memandang sa-suatu yang maha penting dan men- jaga keutohan negara di-dalam men- jaga kemerdekaan, maka kekalan di-antara tanggong-jawab pehak pembangkang dengan pehak Kerajaan mesti-lah wujud, mesti-lah ada, bukan memperkechiPkan sama- ngat keperwiraan yang ada pada ra'ayat negara ini.
bersama kita dia betapa Berbalek kapada masaalah yang di- sentoh oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat tadi, saya tertarek hati benar menunjokkan bergantong kata kapada nasib Kerajaan British mana- kala konfrantasi ini lahir dan British chuba hendak menyelesaikan, champor tangan hendak menyelesaikan dan hendak menyelesaikan masaalah kon frantasi dengan Indonesia pada bila2 masa sahaja.
Tuan Pengerusi, masa alah champor tangan British di-dalam perkara konfrantasi yang di-bangkit- kan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari pada pehak Pembangkang tadi, telah di-terangkan dengan bagitu jelas oleh Perdana Menteri kita bahawa masa alah Konfrantasi Indonesia dengan Malaysia ada-lah masaalah dua negeri ini, tidak ada masaalah orang2 luar; hatta British, hatta Britain sendiri tidak boleh menchampori hak politik yang ada pada kita.
Apa yang ada ia-lah perjanjian kita dengan British Perjanjian Pertahanan yang kalau kita meminta waktu itu, baharu-lah mereka memberikan bantuan kapada kita.

Ada pun masaalah dalam negeri, masaalah luar negeri, masaalah dasar kita, British tidak mempunyai hak untok 4491 2 DECEMBER 1965 4492 telah saperti tangan dalam masaalah2 champor tidak boleh ini dan yang merupakan sa-bagai batu penghalang untok mengembalikan pertalian per- sahabatan di-antara kita dengan negara yang hubongan-nya terputus dengan kita.
Saya menyatakan di-sini bahawa langkah yang di-buat oleh Setia-usaha Luar British ada-lah satu langkah yang tersalah tersilap dan yang telah menchuba, hendak me- nunjokkan image Malaysia ini ka-luar negeri, suatu bentok yang membetul- kan apa yang di-sebut oleh Indonesia neo-colonialist.

Dewan ini dan di-dalam negara kita, tidak akan di-kutok saya rasa, kita oleh anak chuchu kita, kalau kita tengkok mereka itu sa- mematahkan belum mereka mematahkan tengkok kita.
Tuan Pengerusi, soal2 pertahanan yang saya sebutkan tadi, saya menyata kan uchapan sa-tinggi2 shukor kapada Tuhan bahawa kita maseh mempunyai daya di-dalam pertahanan negara kita, maseh mempunyai usaha, maseh mem punyai pelan untok mempertahankan negara kita di-masa hadapan.
Tuan Pengerusi, kalau ini-lah yang telah di-buat oleh Setia-usaha Luar British atau terhadap pembentokan image dari luar negeri, maka kita mempunyai dasar2 dan daya sendiri untok membersehkan kedudokan kita itu dengan menyatakan dengan terang saperti mana yang pernah di-lakukan oleh rombongan2 kita keluar negeri, ka-Afrika, menyatakan hakikat ke dudokan ini sa-benar-nya, tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagaimana yang saya katakan tadi walau pun sudah hampir tiga tahun, kita menghadapi konfran- tasi tentera ini dari Indonesia—banyak telah berlaku, baik di- perubahan Filipina mahu pun di-Indonesia.
Per- hubongan kita dengan Filipina dengan ada-nya lawatan Menteri Tan Siew Sin—kita mempunyai harapan baik pada tahun hadapan perhubongan kita akan terikat kembali.

peristiwa2 Dengan ada-nya 30 September di-Indonesia, orang akan kenal juga bahawa kita bukan neo- colonialist lagi, tetapi yang di-sebut2 oleh mereka itu sa-bagai neo-colonia list ia-lah daripada mulut Aidit sendiri dan di-sambong oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat daripada Batu, daripada Socialist Front dan PAS sa-bagai ejen Aidit di-dalam negeri ini.
Tuan Penge rusi, kita terpaksa mengawasi ke dudokan yang saperti ini, walau pun kita hendak memustahakkan, memerlukan di-dalam Dewan ini Pembangkang2, tetapi kita mahu Pembangkang yang sihat, Pem bangkang yang tidak mahu mengizin- kan diri-nya sa-bagai ejen daripada musoh luar negeri.
Kalau Pembang kang yang saperti ini berada di-dalam berkehendakkan dan itu, saya tentera Di-samping berbangga dengan pengishtiharan yang di-buat oleh Menteri Pertahanan bahawa gaji askar2 kita akan di-semak sa-mula, akan di-selideki sa-mula dan akan di- layanan2 yang baik kapada berikan askar2 kita.
Sa-bagaimana Menteri Pertahanan Yang Berhormat telah menyatakan bahawa layanan kapada askar kita, kalau di-bandingkan dengan askar2 atau tentera2 di-Asia ini, kita tidak tertinggal, erti-nya layanan ter hadap ini mendapat kita tempat yang istimewa di-bandingkan dengan tentera2 di-Asia, di-negara2 di- Asia ini sendiri, erti-nya dengan gaji yang mereka dapat, mereka boleh ber bangga dan boleh bersuka dengan apa yang dia dapat daripada gaji-nya itu, tetapi walau demikian pun Kerajaan kita, Menteri Pertahanan kita maseh memandang berat di-atas layanan yang patut akan di-berikan, daripada suatu masa ka-suatu masa, kapada askar2 kita yang berjasa kapada negara ini, kapada askar2 kita yang mati, yang shahid, yang berkurban untok memper tahankan kemerdekaan negara ini saya harap pehak Pembangkang jangan-lah memperkechilkan hati mereka itu.
Saya takut monchong senapang mereka akan menghadapi mereka itu.

Tuan Pengerusi, akhir-nya di-dalam perbahathan ini, saya suka-lah menya takan sa-lain daripada askar2 yang patut di-ambil perhatian dan di-kaji sa-mula tentang gaji mereka itu dari satu ka-satu masa, maka ada baik-nya juga kita memandangkan nasib guru2 ugama yang ada berkhidmat di-dalam pasokan2 askar kita yang ada sekarang ini.
Nasib guru2 ugama kita sama ada 4493 2 DECEMBER 1965 4494 faham sa-bulan, pada semangat berkorban itu, dan laki2, atau perempuan yang mendapat gaji permulaan sa-banyak $160 sa- bulan sa-bagai guru ugama rendah atau $130 sa-bulan dan bagi wanita $128 saya, mereka ini pun tugas yang di-lakukan laki2 atau oleh guru2 ugama, baik perempuan, di-dalam pasokan2 askar kita—tugas-nya tidak kurang penting- nya daripada tugas askar itu sendiri, kerana guru2 ugama ini-lah yang telah memasokkan semangat perwira, iman, semangat kepercha- semangat kapada yaan, hati askar2 kita jikalau mereka itu pergi ka-garisan hadapan, guru2 ugama turut serta ini akan bersama2 dengan batallion-nya untok sa-lama-nya memberikan pengajian, pelajaran dan suntekan2 rohani.
Maka kapada guru2 ugama laki2 atau perem puan ini, saya rasa patut-lah di-ambil perhatian dan di-semak sa-mula gaji mereka tidak itu, kalau mereka mendapat penchen, kalau dia berhenti kerja, maka pensionable patut-lah ini di-timbangkan kapada mereka supaya itu ber- semangat mereka tambah kokoh—sa-lain daripada tugas- nya sa-bagai orang berpengetahuan ugama, maka tugas-nya juga terhadap negara tidak di-sia2kan.
itu Tuan Pengerusi, ke-sudahan-nya sa- kali, sa-kali lagi saya katakan bahawa jangan-lah kita mudah di-peralat oleh cherita2 yang akhir-nya akan menyusahkan negara kita sendiri.

Dengan itu, saya sokong peruntokan yang di-berikan kapada Kementerian Pertahanan.

dongengan2 dengan Mr Chairman: Persidangan ini di- tempohkan sa-lama 15 minit.

Sitting resumed at 12.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Debate resumed.
Dr Tan Chee Khoon (Batu): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to speak on the estimates for the Ministry of Defence, and I wish to draw the attention of this House to Head S. 17, page 153, the token vote of $10 for the Minister of Defence.

Now Mr Chairman, Sir, the portfolio of Defence is a new concept.
Until very recently, until even a few years after World War II, all countries had Ministers of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force, but in this nuclear age it was felt that Defence should not be left these three Departments which may well lead to squabbling, and hence you have all these into three Departments united one portfolio of Defence.

in the hands of in Mr Chairman, Sir, in most countries in peace time the portfolio of Defence is a very important one.
It will be true to say that Defence in the Govern is, ment heirarchy ranks third—that after the the Prime Minister and Minister for Finance you come to the Minister for Defence.

Now, when a country is at war, as we are supposed to be at war,, or in a state of war with Indonesia, then there is no doubt that Defence takes priority over Finance.

Consequently, the portfolio of Defence, Sir, is the second most important port folio the Government's heirachy.
Hence, it is, Mr Chairman, Sir, I wish to draw the attention of this House to this token vote of $10 which shows, with due respect the substantive to holder of the portfolio, that in this country at least Defence is treated by him as a side-line.

He is in addition, the the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister and Rural for National Development.
As you know, Mr Chair man, Sir, we are supposed to be in a state of war with Indonesia and we never know when they will land here in Pontian, or the East Cost, or anywhere along the long border between us and Indonesia in Borneo.

Consequently, it would be true to say that the Minister of Defence should be on duty almost 24 hours a day, and as such I am really alarmed that we have a Minis ter, or this country tolerates a Minister, who treats Defence as a side-line.
In saying this, Mr Chairman, Sir, I do not for one moment say that the pre sent holder is not equal to his task.

I only wish to say that the time may well come when he may find that the three important posts that he is holding are far too taxing and he may well break down with disastrous conse quences to this country.

Mr Chairman, Sir, I wish to correct one slight mistake my Honourable 4495 2 DECEMBER 1965 4496 colleague, for Dato the Member Kramat, made just now.
He pointed out that on page 169 Secret Services has disappeared, but actually this vote has not disappeared—if I may read the Estimates, "Sekarang di-bawah per- untokan Head S. 24—Treasury General Services" Mr Chairman, Sir, this vote has been built into the Secret Services vote of the Minister of Finance and that is to be found on page 243.

Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, this is a very odd way of treating a very important aspect of defence in this country.
We know that elsewhere counter espionage is a very important armour of defence.

I need hardly say that the United States spends millions and billions of dollars on the C.I.A.

trying to pass off baksheesh here and there.

I do not for one moment suggest that we should adopt the same thing, but this House has just approv ed a paltry sum of $290,000 by way of supplementary vote for this year, and in next year's Estimates, Sir, Secret into the Treasury Services are built that Secret Services.
I maintain that is an odd way of doing things and, indeed, if foreign countries see our Secret Services vote being built into the Treasury vote, we will certainly be the laughing stock of any country, and certainly of Indonesia.
But I do hope, and I think the government must be aware, that in time of distress like this, Sir, items like Secret Services vote and all are usually built into somewhere, and you do not tell people where you build your vote of this nature, because the extent of your vote on Secret Ser spend on counter vices is a espionage and on espionage thing that you do not like your enemy that the to know.
I have no doubt the backroom boys Ministerial benches, and intelli gence chiefs who may be present here today, know full well that any small indication of this nature will be of immense value to the enemy.

sitting behind that you the that we, in Mr Chairman, Sir, it has been alleg ed the Opposition, are wanting or egging on the Government to build a very big defence force—far from think it.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I my colleague, the Member for Dato there Kramat, just now stated that were two alternatives or solutions to our trouble with Indonesia.

One is a political solution and that is by far the easiest and the cheapest way of do ing so.

The other, of course, is a military solution.


I shudder to think of the, consequences of a military solution and so long as we think in terms of military solution, that long we must be in a perpetual state of war, that long will we have to depend on Great Britain and other countries for our defence needs and, perhaps, be a pawn in their hands.
from to our the top in relation Consequently, Mr Chairman, Sir, I am a little alarmed at this expenditure on military posts that are found not only in pages 156, 161, 164, 165, and 166— all these detail out the expenditure needed for the various military posts, that of a beginning Lieutenant-General, right down to the ordinary private.

Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, it is wellknown that in matters of defence, the expenditure on it the sky is the limit.
Today, we are asked to approve of the sum of $237-million plus.

This total Budget of $1,600 million, is a very big sum and to me, at least, it is a wasteful sum.

But Mr Chairman, Sir, this $237 million plus is less than "chicken feed' if you think in terms of buying the sophisticated gadgets of destruction.

To take but one example, if you want to aircraft- nuclear-powered have carrier of the "U.S.S.
the Enterprise" that is now going to sail to—off it would not take $237 million it will be the $1,600 million—in many other words, Sir, you can multiply $1,670 million by 10 times perhaps— and you cannot even buy a "U.S.S.

Enterprise" not to talk of, if you want to buy them, other gadgets like the B52 that fly from Guam to Vietnam those go in terms of tens of millions of American dollars.
Consequently, I do hope, and I am sure the Government is aware, that on matters of defence, we cannot think in terms of having all these sophisticated gadgets of destruc tion.

Even if we have the money, we do not have the manpower with the these proper weapons, Sir.
To give but one example, shores of Vietnam, sophistication type of to use times the a 4497 2 DECEMBER 1965 4498 Mr Chairman, Sir, these allies of ours or so called allies of ours—Australia and New Zealand—their defences are, to say the least, totally inadequate.

They are thinking in terms of buying limited gadgets of destruction.

also Most of the warships that they have are derelicts of World War II, which are no use in this nuclear age.
If I may come, Mr Chairman, Sir, to this question of Perbelanjaan Khas or "Special Expenditure" on page 169: Whatever we may do we cannot afford any of these sophisticated gadgets of destruction.

I have already told this House of the money that has to be spent if you want to purchase a nuclear- powered aircraft-carrier like the "U.S.S.

Enterprise" and of the other equally expensive gadgets of destruction.
Conse quently under Special Expenditure, however much we may think in terms of increasing it and however much we may think in terms of increasing the whole defence vote, we can never hope in acquiring these to be self-sufficient gadgets of destruction.

Consequently, the Socialist Front feels that all efforts should be made to attain a political settlement with Indonesia.
just seen an If I may conclude, Mr Chairman, Sir, with a small item, and that is this country has industrial showdown between the Armed Forces the British Civilian Staff Union and Government in this country.
I do hope that while the British are here to help us to defend this country, they should not exploit the workers of this country them sufficiently, or by not paying making use of this question of redun dancy to dismiss local officers and to take on the wives and children of British serving officers in this country to do jobs, that can well be carried out by the local officers.

Finally, Mr Chairman, Sir, I come to page 167, Head S. 17, Industrial and Manual Group of Employees.
I notice that there is a token vote for this.

Mr Chairman, Sir, this important group, this the I.M.G.

workers country, they are perhaps the worst paid in this country.

This House knows full well they they are even outside of Division IV and the that that feel in paltry sum of $5 that has been offered by the Government to them is, may I repeat again, less than "chicken feed".
How on earth can the Government expect any ordinary worker, who is earning about $70 with a wife and, per haps, three or four children, to feed and clothe their children with an extra $5.

I leave it to the Government to decide.

I do hope that before indust rial action is taken by this important category of workers, that is the I.M.G.

the Government must seriously consi der their request for an increase of $27.00 a month—that works out to $1.00 per working day.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Enche' Tai Kuan Yang (Kulim Bandar Bharu): Mr Chairman, Sir, I am touching on page 168, Sub-head 28 for "Ammunition".

Sir, the security our country demands that our defence forces be further expanded.

We may have the manpower, but for arms we have to buy abroad each and every bullet.

In other words, we shall be depending more and more from friendly foreign countries for our supply of arms and ammunitions.

I now ask, what will happen if such vital sources were cut off?
Sir, the present climate of international politics is lamentably unpredictable.

Today, they are our friends; tomorrow, they can break off diplomatic relations on the flimsiest of excuses.

Therefore, I think, it is high time our Government start producing our own guns and ammunitions now.

This, and only this, can assure for always a continual and adequate supply.

No army, even Sand hurst trained, can fight without guns and ammunitions.
Sir, even in normal time we have to spend a substantial amount on arms and ammunition for peace keeping and against the Communist menace in our border areas with Thailand.

I am afraid this latter menace will continue to grow worse with Communist China getting more and more powerful.

In conclusion, I suggest that our Government should start an ammuni tion factory at once, producing first small arms, bullets, hand grenades, I etc., for our defence forces.
Sir, 4499 2 DECEMBER 1965 4500 that fully support this Defence Bill con sidering is spending Indonesia more than two-thirds of her national income on her armed forces.

Thank you, Sir.

saya berchakap Enche' Mustapha bin Ahmad (Tanah sukachita Merah): Tuan Pengerusi, juga sadikit ber- kenaan dengan Head S. 17—Ministry of Defence.

Di-dalam peruntokan per- belanjaan kita bagi tahun 1966 ini, pertahanan ada-lah termasok perbelan- jaan yang kedua banyak-nya sa-lepas daripada Menteri Pelajaran.
Nampak- nya, Tuan Pengerusi, dua tahun yang terakhir ini kedudokan negara kita di- Asia ini tidak bagjtu menguntongkan.

Konfrantasi Indonesia ber- sambong pula perhubongan kita putus dengan Filipina, dengan Pakistan dan akhir21 sa-kalii Malaysia kita ber- pechah dengan Singapura.

Masaalah2 ini, Tuan Pengerusi, terdedah kedudo kan kita dalam satu keadaan yang tnembimbangkan.

Kedudokan negara dan khusus-nya mengenai' pertahanan di-pengarohi oleh suasana2 yang terjadi di-masa yang akhir2 ini.
dengan Pagi tadi, Tuan Pengerusi, nampak- nya dalam Dewan kita ini ada Ahli2 yang berchakap terlampau serious dan ada juga yang berchakap agak luchu.

Ada orang2 yang mahu menunjokkan diri-nya Ahli dan expert tentang Indo nesia dan lain2 lagi.
Saya sendiri tidak mahu-lah berchakap tentang Indonesia dan lain2 lagi, tetapi sa-patut-nya saya, atau pun Yang Berhormat Menteri Penerangan patut berchakap banyak tentang Indonesia, sebab saya dudok di-Indonesia lebeh daripada 4 tahun, Tuan Pengerusi, dan saya tahu ten tang Indonesia, bukan erti-nya saya menyokong Indonesia.

konfrantasi perbelanjaan Masaalah-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, ke- mengakibatkan jadian meningkat-nya dalam pertahanan kita ia-lah timbul daripada projek Malaysia.
Kita mempertahan- kan Malaysia sa-chara politik dan perkara konfrantasi Indo nesia pun, saya perchaya, harus di- selesaikan dengan chara politik juga.

Kita tentu sahaja tidak sanggup mem- bekali terlampau banyak untok ke- tenteraan kita di-dalam masaalah per ini ada-lah tahanan.

Pehak Kerajaan dan Ahli2 daripada pehak Kerajaan sendiri telah menyuarakan tidak mahu memberi uniform kapada asikar2 sahaja, kita juga mahu memberi makanan, pela jaran dan lain2 lagi.
Sebab itu, saya perchaya sama sa-kali kita tidak dapat menentang Indonesia dalam kekuatan tentera, bukan sahaja Indonesia dapat membekali askar2-nya, kelengkapan2 askar-nya datang daripada bantuan pehak kominis atau China Kominis, tetapi nampak-nya lebeh banyak dari pada block2 Barat terutama daripada Amerika sendiri, Tuan Pengerusi.

Per- istiwa2 demikian mungkin bagi Indo nesia ada-lah benar dalam pandangan Indonesia sendiri.

Bagi Malaysia, kita rasa, tidak benar dalam pandangan kacha mata kita sendiri.
Tetapi, kalau jujor, kalau kita pandai main kita politik luar negeri, kita benar2 ber- daulat, mungkin keadaan yang tidak menguntongkan di-masa dua tahun yang telah lalu itu dapat di-baiki di-masa hadapan.

Ahli Yang Berhormat dari pada Dato Kramat tadi telah mengata- kan .

.

.. Tuan Haji Ahmad bin Saaid (Sebe- rang Utara): Ada-kah Yang Berhor mat itu tahu dan sedar juga penyele- saian politik sudah pun di-ikhtiarkan di-Manila, di- dan di-ranchangkan Bangkok dan di-Tokyo?
Ada-kah Yang Berhormat itu sedar, bahawa Iangkah tetapi maseh itu telah pun di-ambil tidak mahu lagi Indonesia berdegil menyelesaikan masaalah ini dari segi politik?

Enche' Mustapha bin Ahmad: Terima kaseh, Tuan Pengerusi, saya sedar masaalah-nya, tetapi saya meng- harapkan lebeh intensive dan extensive penyelesaian masa lagi menchari alah—mungkin ada satu masaalah lain yang terbentok di-tengah jalan.
Mung kin, ada perkara2 lain yang dapat meli- batkan kedudokan antara satu sama lain yang tidak menguntongkan.

Dan saya perchaya maseh optimist keadaan kita dapat di-selesaikan dalam waktu yang dekat.
Tuan Pengerusi, saperti mana Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada Dato Kramat mengatakan bahawa sa- nya Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Netherlands—Belanda, ada-lah negara2 4501 2 DECEMBER 1965 4502 oleh Setia-usaha pendapat-nya kechil di-bandingkan dengan negara2 kita tetapi mereka dapat hidup dengan aman, penoh dengan daulat dan di- hormati oleh orang2 lain.

Sebab tentu- nya ada masaalah2 yang dapat mereka itu sendiri.
itu menjaga diri mereka Oleh itu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak- lah memanjangkan masaalah ini dan saya mengharapkan Kerajaan kita, sa- belum lebeh banyak kita di-rasakan jemu oleh orang2 yang menolong kita statement yang di- saperti mana keluarkan Luar British baharu2 ini mengena'i Malay sia sa-olah2 kita ini satu project dari pada Inggeris sendiri dan dia mahu menyuarakan dengan Indonesia itu menchari satu penda- maian tanpa kita.

Pada hal, ini ada-lah masaalah kita.


Sa-belum mereka itu jemu dengan kita sa- lebeh banyak hingga perkara ini akan kita pikul sendiri, chari-lah penyelesaian yang baik, kami bahkan akan menyokong penyelesaian politik itu.

Kami tidak berkeras kepala, kami tidak berdegil.

Right or wrong is our country—itu- lah pendirian kami.
Jadi di-dalam per kara ini-lah saya merasa semua Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dan Kerajaan sendiri akan mengambil perhatian sa-penoh- nya muga2 dengan chara dan projek mana sahaja, entah chara Maphilindo, entah chara pertukaran daripada ke- dudokan2 di-Filipina, akan memungkin- kan kedudokan itu dengan segera dapat di-selesaikan.

Saya berchakap mengena'i Butiran (26), (45) dan (63) ia-itu Nazir Ugama dan Guru2 Ugama di-dalam tentera.
Tuan Pengerusi, sa-lain daripada keleng- kapan askar yang baik tentera memerlu- kan semangat perjuangan yang kebal.

Sebab sejarah menunjokkan ketika Allied troops pergi ka-pulauan Jepun menguasai negeri Jepun pada waktu itu, maka General MacArthur membuat sharat yang pertama bagi orang2 askar2 Jepun waktu tidak di-benarkan mengajar ugama chara-nya kapada askar2 Jepun.
Jadi kita perchaya kalau- lah Guru2 ugama battlion terdiri dari pada orang2 yang betul2 progressive— orang yang benar2 bersemangat, orang2 yang benar2 mengerti dalam masaalah ugama, mengerti dalam soal theology, lagi kapada akan lebeh berkesan itu ini hendak-lah kedudokan tentera kita pada hari ini.
Sebab itu, saya mengeshorkan supaya guru2 ugama yang ada di-dalam askar hari terdiri daripada orang askar itu sendiri, tidak daripada latehan orang civilian dan di-beri kapada mereka dan di-berikan biasiswa kapada mereka, biar-lah mereka itu sampai kapada tingkat University.
Jangan kita mengajar ugama sa-bagai 'adat dan sa- alasan—sa-bagai satu bagai kebiasaan orang2 Melayu dengan ugama Islam-nya, orang lain dengan ugama-nya, tetapi biar-lah kesedaran ugama tertanam di- dalam jiwa mereka sa-hingga kekuatan daripada semangat itu akan menimbul- kan pula kekuatan di-dalam perjuangan.

itu mendalam itu berputar telah ka-tempat Pechahan-kepala 9, 10 dan 11 dalam Perbelanjaan Berulang2 ia-itu Latehan Askar2.
Sa-patut-nya' di-dalam latehan2 ini sa-telah kita mendapat latehan asas di-tanah ayer kita sendiri, jangan-lah kita menumpukan latehan2 askar kita itu hanya kapada England sahaja.

Kerana politik dunia hari ini daripada mungkin England lain, mungkin Afrika, mungkin akan pergi ka-Asia Afrika dan mungkin lain2 lagi.
Lebeh baik-lah salah satu daripada penye lesaian politik, latehan2 askar kita ini juga kita hantar ka-Asia Afrika dan negara2 Timor Tengah yang dapat itu bekerjasama dengan kita, kerana tidak-lah merugikan bahkan meluaskan lagi pengajaran dalam bidang latehan pada askar2 kita.
Dan saya juga meng harapkan dalam soal ini, pehak Kera tour bagi jaan menyediakan askar2 kita untok melawat negara2 yang ada di-Asia dan Afrika sa-hingga ikatan kita di-dalam ketenteraan, sa- lain daripada ikatan dalam masaalah perdagangan dan lain2, akan lebeh kuat lagi.

study Mengena'i Butiran (22) ia-itu Pegawai Barek.

Saya dapati dan saya di-faham- kan bahawa sa-nya barek2 askar kita tidak-lah bagitu memuaskan, terutama di-Kuala Lumpur ini.
Ini ada-lah salah satu daripada faktor yang dapat mem- bimbangkan kedudokan itu sendiri.

Sebab sa-bagaimana yang telah di-suarakan, kalau kedudokan askar2 ini tidak dapat di-selesaikan dalam hal perumahan dan lain2 lagi, boleh jadi askar2 4503 2 DECEMBER 1965 4504 tahu, nampak-nya ini akan merasa kechil hati mereka dan boleh jadi perasaan mereka itu akan termasok2 dalam masaalah2 politik dan lain2 lagi yang membimbangkan Kerajaan pada keselurohan-nya.
Sebab sudah kita pehak di-Kuala Lumpur ini sendiri dari askar sedang membuat rumah2 haram atau daripada kawasan mereka itu sendiri yang mana ini ada-lah berekor daripada barek tidak chukup di-tempat mereka dudok.

di-luar haram ada ta' Itu-lah sahaja, Tuan Pengerusi, yang dapat saya chakapkan dalam masaalah ini dan saya harapkan saperti mana yang telah saya katakan tadi satu, kita menchari penyelesaian politik mengenai konfrantasi bagi menyelesaikan kesu- sahan di-dalam pertahanan kita.
Yang kedua, kita jaga hati daripada askar2 kita jangan sampai timbul satu masa alah saperti di-Indonesia dan tempat2 lain lagi yang banyak askar2-nya dan yang ketiga- nya, saya harap askar2 kita di-beri tour latehan study tidak sahaja ka- Britain, juga ka-negara Asia tetapi dan Afrika.

Sekian, Tuan Pengerusi, terima kaseh.

senang tidak yang Mr Chairman: Persidangan ini di- tempohkan sa-hingga pukul 4 petang ini.

Sitting suspended at 1 p.m.


Sitting resumed at 4 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) House resolved itself into Committee of Supply.

(Mr Speaker in the Chair) Head S. 17— Debate resumed.

Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad (Kota Star Selatan): Mr Chairman, Sir, I am glad to note that a substantial portion of our national Budget is devoted to Defence requirements.

The absolute figures are unimportant.


If a country like Luxembourg, for example, were to be at war with Germany, even if the total national Budget of that country were to be allocated to Defence, it would still be an inadequate sum, and would still be laughable.

But the per centage of a country's national Budget devoted to Defence is a measure of that country's resist determination aggression.
to I say this because the Opposition is so fond of ridiculing our efforts and likes to talk of how much an aircraft carrier or a jet plane would cost.

They know very well that Malaysia is in no position effective defence system against Indonesia.

They know that, and yet they say we must.

They criticize the fact that we have alliances with more powerful nations in the interest of our safety.
to build a truly like likes situation the urge Mr Chairman, Sir, no self-respecting independent nation to rely on others to survive.

But facts must be faced, and what reason dictates we must follow.

The fact is that we are being aggressively confronted by a very powerful neighbour.

This neighbour does not, for various reasons which are only acceptable to themselves, play the game according to the rules.

From the very beginning that neighbour has been very unpredictable.
What does a small nation like ours do when faced with a this?

Quite to survive must obviously is self-respect dominate.

Pride and important, of course, but survival must come first and, having survived, we can then turn to questions of an honourable settlement of our problems.

Hence, the from countries most resort readily available to us.

If it happens to be the Western countries that we are allied with just now in the interest of our own survival, is simply because they are most handy.
Had the Afro-Asian countries rushed to our aid confrontation at started, I have no doubt that our country would be very closely asso ciated with Afro-Asian people right now.

These are the facts and we must face them as realists.

I would be the first to condemn the Government for seeking British aid, if I can honestly say that we could survive without this aid, or that we could seek aid else where.

But I know that we cannot and, therefore, I must face the facts.
the moment to aid that it Mr Chairman, Sir, for a country with a relatively small national Budget of $1,800 million, $237 million repre the field of sents a great effort in 4505 2 DECEMBER 1965 4506 defence.

It is also an amount that is sensible for, quite obviously, defence needs have been weighed against the needs of social services and administra tion with the tempo of confrontation in the background.
We could have been stampeded into excessive spending on defence, if we were to follow the line of argument advanced by the Oppo sition parties; and we could also spend less, if we were to be rendered compla cent by the turn of events in Indonesia.

But we have done neither.

We have kept our sense of proportion, and I for one am appreciative of the Govern ment's efforts.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to talk about the question of military and political settlements about which there ha~ been so much talk by the Opposi tion Members.

When Members of the Opposition speak of these two methods of settlement, they seem to think that these two methods are independent of each other.

This is rather naive.


Con frontation began primarily as a political problem, but Indonesian military action has made it a military problem, and no military problems could be solved purely by military means.

A good example is the last World War.


Had it been a purely military problem, then those who won the war would have settled all the problems that came after the war, but we knew even before the war was won, the political aspects of the postwar period had to be solved and even now we have not finished solving the political aspects of the post war period.

Hence, since confrontation is a military problem, we must think of it also in terms of a military solution as well as a political solution.
The fact is that we are now following both lines.

We are preparing ourselves for military defence to the extent that we can, and to seek military aid from what ever source that is available to us, but at the same time we have, no doubt, stepped up our political efforts to solve the problem.
If we were to think in terms of the Indonesian force being many, many times bigger than ours, and therefore, we would stop thinking in terms of a military solution and go all out for a political solution, we would, in fact, have to negotiate for a political solution with a gun pointing at us, and this would certainly result in a very bad bargain in the end.
is directed Hence, our effort now towards preparing ourselves for a military defence to the utmost possible extent, but at the same time we have been trying to woo people who would be in a position to influence Indonesian opinion, and should we, after all our efforts, reach a point where Indonesia is more or less isolated in her con frontation, then we will be in a better position to negotiate for an honourable settlement of our confrontation problem without necessarily bowing to all the demands that Indonesia would neces sarily make should we negotiate from a position of weakness, and if we were to assess our position purely from the military angle.
Hence, I would certainly congratulate the Government on this very considerable the Government intends to spend in the defence of this country which sum, I believe, is very well balanced, and does in fact show the sense of responsibility that the Alliance Government has in facing up to the needs of the country at this juncture.

Thank you.

sum which Enche' Tan Cheng Bee (Bagan): Rises.

Mr Chairman: How long you will take?

Enche' Tan Cheng Bee: Mr Chair man, Sir, I would like to join .

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Mr Chairman: I asked just now how long you will take, because we have already put on your table the closure times.

Enche' Tan Cheng Bee: 10 minutes, Sir.

is fixed Enche' Lim Kean Siew: On a point of clarification with regard to the time table.

Is it the practice that if a time the Opposition that table should be given an opportunity to see on which longer debate?
It· would seem that we have spent a lot of time over Culture, Youths and Sport and Agriculture and there is very short for Defence and Education.

items we want a time Mr Chairman: I am afraid I do not know of any such practice.

4507 2 DECEMBER 1965 4508 Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Usually, Mr Chairman, Sir, on the question of debates one does have informal discussions.
Mr Chairman: I have given a lot of opportunities to the Opposition in particular, and the Honourable if Member does not happen to be the Opposition Member who speaks, I cannot help that.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Perhaps we can adjust it.

Is this subject to readjust ment?

Mr Chairman: No !

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Not at all?

Mr Chairman: No.

I will stick to it as closely as I can.


This afternoon we have three Heads to go through and I consider the three hours you have will be all that you want, because one hour must be reserved for the Minister to make his reply.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: But, Mr Chairman, Sir, I am not arguing here, but the point is that our Opposition is very small in number and if we have discussions perhaps we can adjust it.

Mr Chairman: I am quite aware of that.


That is why I give plenty of scope for the Opposition to voice their views.

Enche' Tan Cheng Bee: Mr Chair man, Sir, I would like to join my colleagues on this side of the House in giving my support to these estimates under Head S. 17.
We were wondering, at first, whether this amount would be adequate in view of the confrontation that is facing us today, but since this is the sum asked for by the Minister of Defence we feel that he is well capable of handling the position better than we do.

Sir, I would like to touch on page 169, item 39, Secret Service.
Sir, I spoke about this Secret Service last year and I was given an assurance by the Minister that this Secret Service is well in hand.r I cannot understand, Sir, why this item has come now under Treasury General Services-but, then, I feel it is probably because of security reasons that this is being transferred to the Treasury.

Sir, in the case of a country like ours which has newly gained its independence, I feel that it is very essential that we have a very efficient Secret Service.
The personnel of this Secret Service must be well educated and well trained men, who can do espionage and intelligence work in the secret service.

We know, Sir, that due to the good work of the intelligence in the Secret Service niany of the unhappy events have been nibbed in the bud and many tragedies and disasters have been prevented.
Sir, I do not expect that our Secret Service should be as dramatic and as sensa tional as the James Bond that we read about, but we know, Sir, that it is a very important adjunct to the defence work of any newly independent country like ours.

It is very essential, Sir, that we should send our young men, who are taken on into the service, to be trained in foreign countries to see how the Secret Service of other foreign countries, like America and Russia, do their espionage work and counter-espionage work.
This is what I wish to say, Sir.

The Patliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister (Enche' Chen Wing Sum): Mr Chairman, Sir, we have heard a full debate and the time has come for me to answer a few questions raised by various Members.

In fact, some of the answers have been given by my colleagues, the Honour able Members for Hilir Perak, and Kota Star Selatan.
Mr Chairman, Sir, our military position must be adequate to resist any aggression, so that we may have a gleam of hope to obtain a peaceful solution.

Diplomacy and defence are no longer distinct alternatives, one to be used where the other fails.

Each must complement the other.

For the last two years, Mr Chairman, Sir, we have learnt a great deal.
Our Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister had gone to Tokyo, Manila and Bangkok and they1 are still prepared to go anywhere, at any time, to seek peace, if peace can be sought.

We have also made every possible effort to make friends with the Afro Asian countries.
Honourable Members 4509 2 DECEMBER 1965 4510 two respective that are well aware missions were sent to the various Afro- Asian countries—one was led by the leader, Mr former Lee Kuan Yew, who the Honourable Prime Minister of Singa pore and the other by our Deputy Prime Minister.

loyal Opposition is now Mr Chairman, Sir, our military today is adequate with the position friends.
help of our Commonwealth However, positive action must be taken, if we wish to have that kind of forces we will need for our security.

Our preparation against danger today is our hope for safety.
Mr Chairman, Sir, apart from the courage shown by our soldiers and assistance given by our Commonwealth friends, as mentioned by the Honourable Minister of Defence loyal this morning, citizens of this country, have been also very co-operative, and their informa tion and assistance have contributed a great part to the success of our defence against the Indonesian aggres sion.

the public, the Mr Chairman, Sir, I come now to the question put up by the Honourable Member for Batu this morning.
He spoke of the lack of publicity and in the public and formation given to alleged the public was very poor to our military call.

That allegation true.

to our records, whenever According there is any military vacancy, we have always ten times more applicants than we need.

the response from is not that that The Honourable Member for Bachok the Minister of that also suggested Defence should be a military man, should be a military expert.
Sir, as we are living in a democratic country, it is not desirable the Minister of Defence should be a military man— and we are not in a military state.

The Minister of Defence is not concerned with military strategy.

He is only concerned with the defence policy and is advised by military experts and all problems are settled with the right perspective.
Sir, in Malaysia and other Common wealth countries, the next rank below that of the Major-General is Brigadier and not Brigadier-General, as stated by the Honourable Member for Bachok.

Perhaps, he has been too long in the Indonesian army and has forgotten that there are different posts, different names given to other military set-up.

Mr Chairman, Sir, the Honourable Member also stated that the pay to new recruits of $54.05 per month is too low.
Honourable Members are aware that this $54.05 is only pocket money for the recruits.

They are also given food, lodging and clothes.

On the completion of their training, they will be paid, as a soldier at the rate of between $63.60 and $152.50 per month plus the other allowances includ ing ration, marriage and trade.

the The Honourable Member has also suggested that the maintenance cost for ships is high because of the second class ships given by the British.
Sir, it is not true that the British have given us old ships.

The British have given us grants-in-aid for the expansion of our Armed Forces and we have used part of the funds for the purchase of ships.

In cases of urgent need, when we cannot get the ships ready in market, we have bought a few ships from the British Navy inshore including coastal mine-sweepers, and these ships are still good and very serviceable and can meet our requirements.
In addition, most of the ships that wd have bought are new and constructed by private dockyards in accordance with our own designs.

Maintenance costs have been increased not because of the reason given by the Honourable Member, but because regular these ships require servicing and general overhaul after a certain specified period of usage.

As a result of confrontation, more and more use of these ships is required and, therefore, the cost of servicing has to be increased.
This increase has also taken into account the increase in the number of ships next year.

Similarly, the cost of maintenance for aircraft will also be increased for the same reason— certainly not because the aircraft are old as they are all bought new.

Sir, the Honourable Member has also alleged that the ammunitions that we have are old and out-of-date.

It is the policy of the Ministry to obtain the latest and best ammunition.

It is also 4511 2 DECEMBER 1965 4512 true of arms.


We would give the best available to our soldiers in the execu tion of their duties.

The Honourable Member said that the Federation Military College at Sungei Besi has more foreign instructors than our own.

Sir, most of the instructors in this College, in fact, are Malaysians.

Our officers, however, are required to command and control other the number available for units and training duties is limited.
We have had, therefore, to resort to the secondment of officers from our Commonwealth friends.

in The Honourable Member also ques tioned, why there were so few Malay pilots the Royal Malaysian Air Force.

Sir, it is because the number of Malay youths who have come forward has been rather limited.

A cadet pilot requires mathematics and physics and the number of Malays with such quali is scarce.
The Honourable fications if he can Member may be useful pursuade more Malay boys to study mathematics and physics, so that in time to come there will be more Malay pilots.

Now we come to the questions and observations made by the Honourable Member for Dato Kramat.
We agree with the Honourable Member that we are not Americans and we are fully aware of our lack of resources and, therefore, we have no alternative but to enter into a Defence Treaty with the British, so that we do not have to spend so much money on defence.

However, I the Honourable do not Member would to depend entirely on the British and other allies.
We ourselves must at least have a force like us think that think Enche' Lim Kean Siew: On a point of clarification, I do not the Honourable Parliamentary Secretary understood me clearly.

I agree with him that we should try to depend as little as possible on foreign arms, but I also suggested a political solution—not that I did not give an alternative.

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: We agree to that political solution and, in fact, I have said so.
But, Sir, we ourselves estimates in must at least have a force for the main tenance of our defence and take the first onslaught of the enemy.

It is not true that only the foreign soldiers are at the frontline of our defence.

In Borneo, Sir, we have taken our share and, as a matter of fact, we are fully responsible for one brigade area.

In Malaya we are almost fully responsible for crushing the Indonesian landings.
to Singapore, we have With regard only for the provided the Malaysian posts the Fourth Malaysian Infantry Brigade and for the Malaysian units located in Singapore.

Singapore is providing for the mainte nance of the Singapore military forces.

The question of Singapore's contribu tion to defence is a matter now under discussion between the two Govern ments.
With the question of to efficient army mobile units, able to work behind the line, etc., it seems to me that the Honourable Member talks like a military expert.

It would certainly be very useful the Honourable if Member would join the army and see that he really is.

However, Sir, the number of military experts, who are trained and experienced in the art of war up-to-date the defence of in Malaysia speaks for itself.
regard Enche' Lim Kean Siew: On a point of clarification, is it or is it not true that New Zealand troops were involved in the landings in Malaysia.

If it is not true, then the evidence given on oath in the trial in Muar was wrong—that it was the New Zealand troops that went and mopped up and arrested Soetikno.

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: Sir, what I said just now was, we are almost fully responsible.

I did not say we are abso lutely fully responsible.
If the Honour able Member would not be so excitable, probably he would get what I am trying to say.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: If you do not stumble so much.

Mr Chairman: I would ask the Honourable Member to have less of these back-chats (Laughter).

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: As to the suggestion that we should have an army 4513 2 DECEMBER 1965 4514 of the people, I would like to clarify that the Malaysian Armed Forces do not consist wholly of regular soldiers, sailors and airmen.
We have a large element of volunteers, in fact larger than the regulars in the form of the Territorial Army and the Local Defence Corps and also the R.M.N.V.R.—Is that clear to you?

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Can you say it in full?

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: That is the Royal Malaysian Navy Volunteer Reserves—I thought the Honourable Member would be more experienced than me in the military set up; and we also have In addition, we are training a number of national servicemen, who have been engaged in this work.
I do hope that they will ignore the allegations made by the Honourable Member.

the R.M.A.F.V.R.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Chair man, Sir, on a point of order—I know the rules say that we should not read our speeches, but it has been permitted that we may read—so, at least read properly.

The Assistant Minister cannot even read properly.

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: Sir, on a point of information—I am not the Assistant Minister.
I hope the Honour able Member would come here more and would at least try to understand what is the set-up of the Government, so that his people would not be dis appointed.

I am only a Parliamentary Secretary.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Thank you for that information.

the wrong person Enche' Chen Wing Sum: I am sorry you made the flattery at the wrong time to (Laughter).

It is typical that the Socialist Front Member always makes whatever state ment which would suit him.
On the one hand, the Honourable Member pretends to look after the interests of the poor, the and on Government of spending too much money on the married allowances, etc.

the other, he criticizes Mr Chairman, Sir, the Honourable Member from Hilir Perak suggested the religious teachers should be paid more.

important duties the We appreciate of the religious teachers, and at the moment the Ministry is examining their terms and conditions of service, with a view reasonable improvements.
to making any Sir, the Honourable Member for Tanah Merah suggested that religious teachers should be trained soldiers and not civilians.

I hope the Honourable Member is not suggesting that civilian religious teachers are not doing a good job.

In fact, they are carrying out their work efficiently.

They go to the frontline with the Army.

I would also like to their express our appreciation wonderful work the morale of the Armed Forces in the battlefields.
in maintaining for takes charge of Sir, I come now to the observation made by the Honourable Member for Batu.

I cannot agree more with the Honourable Member for Batu that the portfolio of Minister of Defence is next in importance to that of a Prime Minis ter and, therefore, the Deputy Prime Minister has shouldered that important responsibility.

The fact that the Deputy Prime Minister the portfolio without pay shows that the Alliance Ministers are willing to work for no additional pay.
Sir, the present system of providing for Secret Service under is not without precedent.

It is, in fact, the practice in the United Kingdom.

The object is to put into one vote all that is required for Secret Service, so as not to indicate which Ministry is using the money.

I hope I have also answered the question put up by the Honourable Member for Bagan.

The suggestion that they (the estimates) should be hidden is a com mendable one.

However, this has been examined by the Ministry.


We hope that we would be able to find a suitable heading, provided the Opposition would not dig it out.

the Treasury We are fully aware that we can never hope to enter into an arms race with our neighbour and have such hazards of destruction as mentioned by the Hon ourable Member for Batu.
But the Honourable Member should agree that we have to draw a line and decide upon 4515 2 DECEMBER 1965 4516 a figure, or a force of a shape and size economic commensurate with resources and the threats that we have to face.

our The Honourable Member spoke of Industrial and Manual Group the employees and mentioned that the vote of $10.00 was not adequate.

If the Honourable Member would read care fully, the $10.00 is only a token vote in respect of pension contribution.
The is, amount provided fact, $5,654,516—that increase of $1,000,000.

for is, an in Sir, for the Honourable Member Kulim Bandar Bahru suggested that we should produce our own ammuni tion.

The Government has fact, intended to allow private enterprise to set up such a factory.

A number of firms have already their proposals for the Ministry's considera tion.

submitted in Sir, the Honourable Member for Tanah Merah also stated that barracks provided for the soldiers are not satis factory.
We have old as well as new barracks.

The new ones are naturally more modern than the old ones.

How ever, the old ones are being gradually modernised.

It is true that we do not have enough barracks to house our personnel, but we hope remedy can be made in due course.

This will take some time, indicated by the availability of funds.

Sir, before I forget, I would refer back to the observation made by the Honourable Member for Dato Kramat.
This morning the Honourable Member alleged a few incidents, such as the reports from Telok Anson, Upper Perak, etc., in order to ridicule our intelligence agents and spoke of the lack of intelligence.

However, later on, we heard an explanation given by his colleague, the Honourable Member for Batu, that he had made a mistake under that Head of Secret Service.

He asked why the sum of $290,000 was spent on Secret Service 1965 in and nothing in 1966.
That shows our intelligence agents are intelligent men, have more intelligence than the Hon ourable Member.

Everything was put the year on paper and he as a lawyer cannot even read it.

is Enche' Lim Kean Siew: On a point of clarification, Mr Chairman, Sir—I do not know if the Honourable Par sufficiently liamentary Secretary qualified to pass such remarks.

If he does not quite understand what I said, then I am afraid that he should apply remarks like that to himself.
I said that this intelligence item of expenditure had been taken out of the Defence portfolio and put into the Treasury.

He can explain why it is put into the Treasury as he had explained, Mr Chairman, Sir.

If he does not under stand what I was trying to explain, then he has no business to pass remarks like that; and, furthermore, my state ments were rhetorical.

I made use of the Secret Service and talked of para chutes.
In fact, the Honourable Minister of Defence himself clarified it and said that that was an error but it was being clarified after the elections—not before the elections.

If he has to take me in my metaphorical statement so literally, then I must assume that he could not have passed his primary school.

(Laughter).

Enche' Chen Wing Sum: Well, Sir, that observation was not made by me.

It was made, in fact, by his Honourable colleague, the Honourable Member for Batu.
In fact, this morning he made some sort of an apology to this House that his colleague had made a mistake by mentioning that no fund was put in for 1966.

If any compliment should be given, it should be given to the Honourable Member for Batu.

I did not make that observation myself.

I just state it as a matter of fact.


Now, Sir, so much has been said, let us hope that with the help of God, this confrontation would be ended as soon as possible and all the money we have can be more usefully spent; and also let us hope that the Members of certain political parties will be more co-opera tive so that our enemies from within will have no foot to stand in carrying out their subversive activities.

With this prayer, Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to.


4517 2 DECEMBER 1965 4518 The sum of $237,453 for Head to stand part of the S. 17 ordered Schedule.
Heads S. 18, S. 19 and S. 20— The Minister of Education (Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari): Tuan Penge- rusi, dengan kebenaran Tuan, saya ingin mengemukakan ketiga2 Kepala Peruntokan ia-itu 18, 19 dan 20 sa-kali, dan oleh yang demikian saya mohon menchadangkan supaya jumlah wang sa-banyak $51,288,474 yang di-untok kan di-bawah Kepala Peruntokan 18— Kementerian Pelajaran; $262,612,668 yang di-untokkan di-bawah Kepala Peruntokan 19—Bantuan dan Pem- berian Bantuan Pelajaran, dan wang sa-banyak $38,878,248 yang di-untokkan di-bawah Kepala Peruntokan 20— Jabatan Pelajaran, Negeri2 Borneo menjadi sa-bahagian daripada Jadual.
Ketiga2 Kepala Peruntokan ini, jika di-satukan, ada-lah seluroh Belanjawan Berulang Tiap2 Tahun Kementerian saya bagi tahun 1966 dan oleh kerana itu ada-lah mudah jika ketiga2-nya di- timbangkan sa-kali gus.

tambahan lebeh daripada itu peruntokan Tuan Pengerusi, wang yang di-untok kan di-bawah ketiga2 Kepala Peruntok an itu berjumlah $352,779,390.
Jumlah ini ada-lah merupakan hanya tambahan sa-banyak kira2 $32.5 juta atau pun jumlah 10% sahaja telah sa-banyak $320,313,351 yang ini di-untokkan kapada Kementerian bagi tahun 1965.

Ada-lah di-anggarkan sekarang bahawa peruntokan bagi tahun 1965 pun tidak menchukupi dan oleh sa- banyak $15 juta ada-lah di-kehendaki.
Jika di-champorkan ini kapada peruntokan yang di-luluskan bagi tahun 1965 maka jumlah yang di-kehendaki bagi tahun 1966 itu akan merupakan satu tambahan sa-banyak 5% sahaja daripada jumlah bagi tahun ini.
Oleh yang demikian, perlu-lah juga saya menerangkan bahawa sa- banyak 5% itu ada-lah jauh daripada menchukupi dan saya kembali ka-Dewan ini untok mendapat- kan peruntokan tambahan pada peng- hujong tahun 1966. tambahan yang hanya terpaksa-lah tambahan sekarang Sebab2-nya Negeri2 ada-lah di-Tanah Melayu jelas.
Dalam sahaja, tahun di-jangka bertambah 1965 jumlah bilangan murid2 sekolah rendah dari ada-lah 1,217,309 pada jadi 1,272,700 pada tahun 1966 dan jumlah murid2 sekolah menengah dari 276,892 pada tahun 1965 jadi 359,160 pada tahun 1966 yang merupakan, pada keselurohan-nya, tambahan sa-banyak 9%.

Di-Negeri Sabah dan Sarawak pula, jumlah murid2 sekolah rendah dan menengah ada-lah di-jangka ber tambah dari 230,900 pada tahun 1965 jadi kira2 252,700 pada tahun 1966 yang merupakan tambahan sa-banyak 9.5%.
Oleh itu, pada keselurohan-nya, jumlah murid2 sekolah di-semua negeri dalam Malaysia ada-lah di-jangka bertambah dari 1,725,100 pada tahun 1965 jadi lebeh kurang 1,884,600 pada tahun 1966 yang merupakan tambahan lebeh sadikit daripada 9%.
Dengan mengikuti angka2 yang bertambah ini sahaja akan jelas kelihatan bahawa tambahan 5% di-dalam jumlah yang di-untokkan bagi Perbelanjaan Berulang2 Tiap2 Tahun bagi Kementerian Pelajaran ada-lah tidak menchukupi; tetapi sa-lain dari pada itu, ada dua lagi faktor yang penting yang mungkin menambahkan perbelanjaan pelajaran lebeh daripada tambahan bilangan murid2.
Faktor yang pertama ia-lah sa-bila- ngan guru2 pada masa sekarang tidak mempunyai kelayakan sa-chukup-nya (under-qualified) atau pun guru2 semen- tara yang belum menerima sa-barang latehan perguruan.

Banyak di-antara guru2 ini akan tamat latehan mereka pada tahun ini, dan ada pula guru2 yang akan menerima kelayakan akademik yang lebeh tinggi dengan perbelanjaan sendiri atau dengan bantuan daripada Kerajaan.
berma'ana bahawa gaji guru2 yang berkenaan itu terpaksa-lah di-naikkan supaya sesuai dengan kelulusan akademik atau pun kelayakan perguruan yang baharu mereka dapati.

Walau pun ini akan menghasilkan pengajaran yang lebeh baik di-sekolah2, tetapi malang-nya ini juga menambahkan perbelanjaan mem- tiap2 sa-orang beri pelajaran untok murid.
ada-lah Ini Faktor yang kedua ia-lah mengada- kan kemudahan mengajar yang lebeh baik saperti alat2 mengajar dan menge- lolakan kursus2 dalam perkhidmatan 4519 2 DECEMBER 1965 4520 Islam tahun (inservice courses) untok guru2 yang tentang berkelayakan bagi mengajar kaedah2 mengajar yang paling baharu dan yang mengikut dasar dan sistem pentadbiran pelajaran yang baharu.
Mithal-nya, dalam ini sahaja, tidak kurang daripada 30 jenis kursus dalam perkhidmatan telah di-kelolakan untok guru2, dari kursus2 pentadbiran sekolah hingga kursus bimbingan pela jaran (guidance counselling) dan kaedah mengajar mata pelajaran.

Bagi pertama kali-nya guru2 ugama telah di-beri panduan tentang kaedah menga jar pada tahun ini.

Kursus2 saperti itu ada-lah juga di-ranchangkan untok itu, tahun hadapan.
Sa-lain daripada untok membantu Kementerian dalam usaha-nya melaksanakan sistem sekolah menengah yang telah di-susun sa-mula, mengikut sistem pelajaran anika jurusan dengan sempurna dan chekap, maka lapan "test developers", enam pegawai bimbingan pendidekan daerah, enam pengelola pelajaran teknik daerah, tiga pengelola pelajaran pertanian daerah dan sa-orang pembantu perpustakaan filem akan di-lantek pada tahun 1966.
Pegawai2 di-kehendaki ada-lah untok membaiki lagi darjah dan mutu pelajaran kita sa-rentak dengan perkem- bangan2 pelajaran sa-lama ini.

ini Oleh itu ada-lah jelas bahawa tam- bahan Perbelanjaan Pelajaran Berulang Tiap2 Tahun ini ada-lah di-sebabkan oleh tiga faktor ia-itu meningkat-nya bilangan murid2 sekolah, bertambah- nya bilangan guru2 yang berkelayakan dan bermula-nya chara2 membaiki lagi serta kemudahan2 kaedah mengajar pelajaran.
Apabila sahaja kita sampai pada peringkat di-mana semua guru telah terlateh dan berkelayakan dengan sa-penoh-nya dan jumlah bilangan murid2 sekolah pula tidak meningkat naik dengan pesat-nya, maka sistem pelajaran negeri ini akan sampai-lah kapada peringkat kemajuan dan dari situ apa yang di-kehendaki hanya-lah menyatu padukan apa yang telah ter- chapai dan memberi kemudahan2 ka yang pada bilangan-nya lebeh kurang 3% sa-tahun.
sekolah telah bertambah tiap2 kanak2 Sa-lepas kata2 permulaan yang reng- kas ini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya akan menerangkan pula dengan rengkas-nya tentang beberapa kejayaan yang telah terchapai dalam tahun 1965 dan ran- changan2 pelajaran yang penting yang akan di-laksanakan di-semua Negeri Malaysia pada tahun 1966.
Saya tidak akan menerangkan dengan lanjut-nya akan butir2 ranchangan itu atau pun mengulang perkara2 yang telah di- terangkan di-dalam uchapan belan- jawan saya yang telah lalu, atau pun uchapan belanjawan Menteri Pelajaran yang terdahulu daripada saya.

Tetapi, saya akan menchuba dengan sa-berapa boleh menjawab sa-barang soalan yang mungkin di-timbulkan oleh Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam perbahathan sa-lepas ini nanti.
Tuan Pengerusi, Kepala Peruntokan 18 dan 19 ada-lah pada asas-nya mengenai peruntokan bagi kemudahan2 pelajaran di-Negeri2 di-Tanah Melayu.

Sa-bagaimana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat sedia ma'alum, perkembangan yang penting paling di-Tanah Melayu baharu2 ini ia-lah permulaan Sistem Pelajaran Anika Jurusan mulai dari pada awal tahun ini.

Oleh itu, ini-lah tahun pertama murid2 di-ambil masok ka-sekolah2 menengah rendah di- bawah itu.
Tahun sistem baharu hadapan ada-lah tahun kedua murid2 masok ka-sistem itu dan pada tahun ketiga nanti, ia-itu tahun 1967, hasil utama sistem itu di-sekolah2 menengah rendah akan dapat di-ketahui.

Pada kedua2 tahun 1966 dan 1967 itu nanti, kita akan dapati murid2 dalam sekolah menengah akan meningkat tinggi.

Sa- bahagian daripada masaalah2 yang besar telah pun di-atasi dengan me- muaskan.
Masaalah mengadakan tem- pat di-sekolah2 telah hampir selesai sekarang dan Kementerian saya sedang berusaha dengan sa-daya upaya untok mengatasi di- kekurangan peringkat permulaan.

guru2 terlateh Berhubong dengan perkara menam- bahkan bilangan guru2 ini, sa-buah Maktab Latehan bagi Guru2 Sekolah Menengah telah di-buka di- Johor Bahru pada awal tahun 1965 untok menggantikan Maktab Latehan kita di-United Kingdom yang telah di- tutup pada akhir tahun 1964.
Dengan ini maka, buat pertama kali-nya, seluroh ranchangan latehan guru ada- di-Malaysia.

Semua lah di-adakan 4521 2 DECEMBER 1965 4522 bagi tujuan di-tiap2 maktab Maktab2 Perguruan Sekolah Menengah telah di-susun sa-mula dan di-satukan supaya bersesuaian dengan ranchangan kebangsaan latehan guru.

Ini ada-lah dengan supaya latehan itu dapat di-arahkan dengan lebeh berkesan lagi kapada kehendak2 sekolah2 di-negeri ini dan juga untok mengurangkan jumlah kaki-tangan yang di-kehendaki per guruan.
Hasil daripada penyusunan sa- mula ini ia-lah semua maktab2 per guruan bagi sekolah menengah ada-lah berjalan sa-bagai maktab perguruan ilmu khas dan tidak lagi sa-bagai mak tab perguruan umum, dan maktab2 itu sahaja untok melateh guru2 bukan baharu bahkan juga untok memberi latehan tambahan kapada guru2 yang sedang berkhidmat di-sekolah2 bagi membantu mengatasi kekurangan guru2 ilmu khas di-peringkat menengah atas.
Oleh itu ranchangan telah pun di-susun pada tahun ini untok menjadikan Mak tab Perguruan Ilmu Khas di-Jalan Cheras Kuala Lumpur sa-bagai sa- buah Maktab Perguruan Sekolah Me nengah ia-itu sama saperti lima buah Maktab Perguruan yang lain di-negeri ini.
Tuan Pengerusi, oleh kerana maktab2 latehan guru yang ada sekarang tidak chukup untok menempatkan guru2 yang sangat ramai di-kehendaki bagi melak- sanakan si stem pelajaran anika jurusan di-Sekolah2 Menengah Rendah, maka sa-banyak 22 buah Pusat Latehan Daerah telah di-tubohkan di-Sekolah2 Menengah untok memberi latehan di- hujong minggu kapada lebeh kurang 3,500 guru2 pelateh yang di-ambil dalam bidang meluaskan Ranchangan Sekolah Menengah Rendah.
Di-Pusat2 Latehan Daerah ini, mereka di-lateh dan di-ajar oleh pensharah2 sambilan yang di-ambil daripada guru2 sekolah2 yang di-bantu.

Dengan chara itu maka dapat-lah Kementerian mengadakan guru2 untok Tingkatan I dan Kelas2 Peralehan baharu yang telah di-mula- kan tahun ini bagi murid2 dari Sekolah Rendah.

Ranchangan Pusat Latehan itu ada-lah di-ranchangkan Daerah sementara untok mengatasi, buat waktu, masaalah yang sedang di- hadapi ia-itu melateh lebeh ramai lagi guru2 guru2.
Dengan tahun kedua pelateh baharu bagi pengambilan Pelajaran Anika Jurusan di-negeri ini pada tahun 1966, ada-lah di-chadang- kan untok membuka lebeh banyak Pusat Latehan Daerah dan ramai lagi pensharah sambilan di-ambil untok menghadapi perkembangan ranchangan latehan itu.

di-dalam lapangan Sa-masa perubahan2 besar ini ber- laku pelajaran menengah, keadaan di-bidang pela jaran rendah pula juga memuaskan.
Keadaan yang dahulu bukan sahaja telah dapat di-jalankan dengan me muaskan tetapi bertambah baik, ter- utama sa-kali di-lapangan bilangan guru2 yang di-kehendaki.

Sunggoh pun asas untok masok ka- kelayakan Maktab2 dan Pusat2 Perguruan Sekolah Rendah ia-lah Sijil Rendah Perseku- tuan (S.R.P.)

tetapi apa yang sangat menggembirakan bertambah ramai lagi pemegang2 Sijil Persekolahan yang mengikuti ini.
Sa-lain daripada ini, patut di-sebutkan di-sini bahawa peratus guru2 terlateh dan tidak terlateh di-sekolah2 rendah telah bertambah baik meski pun bilangan murid2 di-sekolah rendah telah ber tambah dan dengan yang demikian menambahkan lagi bilangan guru2 yang di-perlukan.

Ini ada-lah sangat penting, oleh kerana segala usaha kita untok menyusun sa-mula dan mengokohkan mutu pelajaran di-peringkat menengah ada-lah sia2 sahaja jika batu asas-nya tidak di-dirikan dengan kokoh di- peringkat rendah.
latehan ia-lah Tuan Pengerusi, di-sini patut saya sebutkan bahawa Kementerian saya sedang mengkaji kemudahan2 pelajaran yang di-sediakan di-peringkat mene ngah atas sa-bagai tindakan lanjutan dari sistem pelajaran anika jurusan di- peringkat menengah rendah yang telah di-mulakan itu dan juga mengarahkan seluroh sistem pelajaran supaya dapat memenohi keperluan negara di-bidang tenaga terlateh di-semua peringkat.
Kajian ini, beserta dengan meningkat- nya bilangan murid2 di-sekolah mene lagi ngah atas, telah menambahkan penting-nya di-adakan ramai guru2 siswazah di-dalam semua mata pelajaran, terutama sa-kali mata pela jaran sains dan teknoloji.
Untok meng adakan guru2 siswazah bagi sementara waktu dan mengatasi kekurangan guru2 lebeh 4523 2 DECEMBER 1965 4524 Jentera siswazah 200 orang siswazah yang amat sangat itu, Kera- jaan telah bersetuju mengambil lebeh kurang dari seberang laut dengan chara konterek pada tahun 1966.
Untok menyelesaikan masaalah itu sa-iama2-nya, sa-bilangan besar biasiswa dan dermasiswa per- guruan terus menerus di-beri kapada penuntut2 bagi mengikuti pengajian "arts" dan sains di-Universiti Malaya serta universiti2 di- dan Singapura seberang laut.

Pada tahun 1965 sahaja, sa-jumlah 179 biasiswa dan dermasiswa telah di-keluarkan.
Dengan bermula- nya sistem pelajaran anika jurusan, lebeh ramai lagi guru2 terlateh dalam beberapa mata pelajaran teknik, saperti Kejuruteraan dan Letrik, Awam, Sains Rumah-tangga, Per- dagangan, Seni Musik, Seni Lukis dan di-kehendaki, Rekabentok, ada-lah telah di- maka beberapa biasiswa keluarkan dalam mata2 pelajaran ini.
Kementerian saya berchadang untok melantek penuntut2 ini menjadi pen- sharah2 di-Maktab Teknik, Maktab2 sa-lain daripada menjadi Perguruan Guru2 Siswazah di-Sekolah2 Menengah apabila mereka balek kelak.
Sa-lain daripada juga ada ini, Kementerian mengeluarkan hadiah2 latehan untok mengikuti pengajian ilmu khas dalam ilmu pendidekan di-peringkat post graduate supaya pada suatu masa kelak Malaysia akan mempunyai pakar2-nya sendiri di-dalam lapangan saperti ilmu jiwa pendidekan, perkembangan bidang pelajaran, Ujian, Peranchang Pelajaran, dan lain2 lagi.

juga Kementerian saya telah ber- usaha dengan bersunggoh2 melaksana- kan dasar Kerajaan mengenai bahasa kebangsaan.
Saperti mana yang di- bayangkan pada tahun lalu, kumpulan yang pertama penuntut2 dari aliran bahasa Melayu telah memasoki Univer siti Malaya pada bulan Mei, 1965.

Memandangkan kapada perkembangan pesat yang berlaku dalam lapangan pelajaran di-aliran ini sekarang, maka satu mungkin mustahak di-mulakan pepereksaan masok Tingkatan Enam yang menggunakan bahasa Melayu di- dalam mata pelajaran "Arts" pada tahun 1966.

Suatu pepereksaan Sijil saperti H.S.C.


Tinggi Persekolahan yang menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan bahasa kebangsaan akan di-adakan, buat pertama kali, pada tahun 1966 dan buat permulaan, chalun2 boleh mengambil Kertas 'Am, Ilmu Hisab, Seni Bahasa Melayu, Lukis, Pengajian Ugama Islam dan Bahasa Arab Kelasik.

Lebeh banyak lagi kelas2 Tingkatan Enam yang menggunakan Bahasa Melayu akan di- tubohkan pada tahun hadapan untok menempatkan penuntut2 yang lulus Tingkatan V yang bertambah ramai bilangan-nya.
Bilangan buku2 teks dalam untok peringkat menengah rendah dan pe- ringkat menengah atas, maseh menjadi masaalah besar.

Berhubong dengan perkara ini Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka bersama2 dengan Universiti Malaya sedang menguruskan terjemahan buku2 teks yang di-kehendaki bagi Tingkatan Enam dan tahun pertama Universiti Malaya.

Kita berharap lama kelamaan kita akan dapat mengatasi masaalah ini untok membolehkan penuntut2 yang menggunakan bahasa kebangsaan itu mendalam serta meluaskan lagi penga dan jian mereka.
Dewan Bahasa Pustaka terus menerus menjadi sumber pengeluar buku2 teks dalam bahasa kebangsaan.

Dalam sa- banyak 85 buku2 baharu telah di-terbit- kan dan 66 buku2 lama telah di-chetak sa-mula.

Buku2 ini kebanyakan-nya ada-lah untok sekolah2 rendah, sekolah2 juga sekolah2 menengah rendah dan menengah atas.
tahun ini, ini Tuan Pengerusi, berhubong dengan pelajaran universiti, sa-banyak 1,208 orang penuntut telah memasoki Univer siti Malaya pada tahun 1965 ya'ani 30% lebeh banyak daripada angka pada tahun 1964 ia-itu 898 penuntut.

Sa-bagaimana Ahli2 Yang Berhormat sedia ma'alum, penuntut2 baharu pada termasok 31 orang dari tahun Sekolah Alam Shah, ia-itu mereka yang telah mendapat pelajaran mereka seluroh-nya dalam bahasa kebangsaan.

Bilangan itu di-jangka akan bertambah pada penggal universiti tahun 1966/67.
Jumlah bilangan penuntut2 Universiti tahun ini ia-lah 2,800.

Di-dalam ran- changan pembangunan Universiti itu mustahak-lah di-ambil ingatan tentang desakan untok mengadakan tempat2 di- universiti di-semua lapangan pengajian.

telah mula me- Universiti ranchangkan kursus2 baharu yang akan juga itu 4525 2 DECEMBER 1965 4526 ekonomi perkembangan menitik-beratkan kehendak2 negeri ini bagi dan masharakat-nya dan mengadakan lebeh banyak lagi mata pelajaran bagi di- pileh oleh penuntut2.
Salah satu per kembangan yang paling penting sa-kali ia-lah sa-buah Fakulti Ekonomik dan Pentadbiran Awam pada tahun 1966.

Ada-lah di-harapkan fakulti baharu ini akan berjaya me- menohi kekurangan pentadbir2 awam di-negeri ini.
penubohan lebeh Untok menggalakkan ramai lagi murid2 Melayu, terutama sa-kali murid2 yang tinggal di-kawasan2 luar tiada kemudahan2 bandar di-mana pelajaran menengah hingga ka-Ting- katan VI dan sa-terus-nya ka-Univer- siti, Kementerian ini telah di-untokkan wang sa-banyak $700,000 bagi tahun 1965 untok biasiswa.
Dengan ada-nya kelas2 Tingkatan VI di-Sekolah Alam Shah yang menggunakan bahasa ke- bangsaan sa-bagai bahasa pengantar- nya, maka bilangan murid2 Melayu di-dalam Tingkatan VI bertambah daripada yang di-jangkakan sa-hingga- kan peruntokan tahun 1965 itu tidak menchukupi.

Peruntokan bagi tahun 1966 ia-lah $900,000.

Oleh kerana bilangan murid2 telah berlipat ganda di-dalam Tingkatan VI maka jumlah peruntokan tidak men itu mungkin chukupi juga.
Tuan Pengerusi, bagi Negeri2 Sabah sa-bagaimana Ahli2 dan Sarawak, Yang Berhormat sedia mengetahui, jumlah peruntokan yang telah di-buat bagi kedua2 negeri ini untok tahun ia-lah $38,878,248 berbanding 1966 dengan $32,326,246 dalam Anggaran tahun 1965 yang telah di-luluskan itu.

Ini berma'ana bahawa peruntokan tahun 1966 ada-lah 20% lebeh dari tahun 1965 ber pada peruntokan banding dengan 10% bagi semua Negeri di-Tanah Melayu.
Sa-bahagian daripada tambahan ini ada-lah terbit daripada pemansokhan yuran atau pun school fees, sekolah rendah di-kedua2 buah Negeri itu mulai daripada awal tahun hadapan dan yang lagi satu ia- lah kerana bilangan murid2 yang ber tambah dengan pesat-nya.
Sa-bagai tadi, mana yang jumlah murid2 sekolah di-kedua buah itu, di-satukan, ada-lah di- Negeri telah di-terangkan tahun hadapan jangka bertambah lebeh kurang 10%> pada terbit daripada dasar Kerajaan untok mengadakan tern- pat bagi tiap2 orang kanak2 di-sekolah rendah dan meluaskan kemudahan2 yang di-adakan di-peringkat sekolah menengah.
itu ini di-kedua pelajaran Tuan Pengerusi, biar-lah saya nyata- kan di-sini bahawa Kementerian saya sa-lama telah mengikuti dengan patoh kapada Perjanjian Antara Kera jaan yang telah di-buat pada tahun ia-itu dasar dan sistem pen 1963 tadbiran buah Negeri di-teruskan hendak-lah saperti sa-belum Malaysia di-tubohkan.
Walau bagaimana pun, untok men- jamin kemajuan dan, lama kelamaan, penyamaan di-dalam mengadakan ke mudahan2 pelajaran di-semua Negeri di-Malaysia, maka Kementerian saya sentiasa berunding dengan Kerajaan kedua2 buah Negeri itu untok menen- tukan di-mana dan bagaimana pem- baharuan patut di-buat di-dalam sis tem sekarang yang boleh di-terima oleh Kerajaan Negeri yang berkenaan dan juga oleh Kerajaan Pusat.
Saya suka- chita melaporkan bahawa hasil dari pada perundingan ini, Kerajaan Pusat telah bersetuju bahawa sa-bagai salah satu ini, langkah ka-arah matlamat maka yuran sekolah rendah hendak-lah di-hapuskan di-kedua2 buah Negeri mulai daripada awal tahun hadapan.

Juga bagi pertama kali-nya, sa-orang anak Malaysia telah di-lantek sa-bagai Pengarah Pelajaran di-Sabah.
Ini ada- langkah2 mara ka- lah merupakan hadapan yang penting dan yang telah di-jalankan penubohan semenjak Malaysia dan saya berharap langkah2 ini akan menjadi asas kerjasama yang lebeh berhasil antara Kerajaan2 Negeri itu dan Kerajaan Pusat pada tahun2 yang akan datang.

Tuan Pengerusi, saya mohon men- chadangkan.
Br Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong): Mr Chairman, Sir, although I had sent in a notice of amendment to be moved in the Committee of Supply three days ago, I had come to this debate pre pared to withdraw my amendment if during the course of his introduction of the Estimates the Honourable Minis ter of Education could show this House 4527 2 DECEMBER 1965 4528 and the country that in fact the Govern- equal employment opportunities has ment is now instilled with a new spirit created economic and social tensions in the educational policy and system, which the Alliance Government has However, Sir, after listening very care- allowed to go on festering because of its own internal conflicts and I urge fully and reading rapidly through the the Government to resolve this pro- speech of the Honourable Minister, I feel that it is necessary for me to carry blem quickly before tensions become politically volatile and explo- on with this proposed amendment.
sive " Sir, at the very outset I must clearly indicate that the amendment, which I Sir, I went on to say that, "From the employment am moving under Standing Order 66 (7) not only seeks to reduce; the sum prospects of the next generation will to be allocated for Head S. 19 by $10 certainly be dimmer.
Can we blame in respect of Sub-head 8, Grants to the Secondary Schools applying for con- Alliance policies on education, langu- version to full assistance, but in actual age, and employment as being unequal purpose the amendment seeks to reduce and unjust?

The Alliance Government the entire allocation for the Ministry must .be held directly responsible for the dissatisfaction of the people and of Education the consequences thereon."

$352,779,390 to $352,779,380.

this point of view for holding the.


people from then sum the of a the school Sir, it was after very careful consi deration and deliberation that I decided to move this amendment as a gesture to indicate our most vehement opposi tion to the Government's educational policy and the present system of educa tion in our country today.
During the general debate on the 1966 Budget, I had already indicated our opinion towards the existing educational policy and system when I referred to the move to raise leaving age by another three years, that is to say the comprehensive school system, and I referred to the move in relation to the overall problem of unemployment.
With your forebearance, Sir, I would like then: to reiterate why I said "What can this measure, this com prehensive school system, achieve if the present system of education con tinues to prevail unchanged.

Even if the Alliance Government were to review its educational policy and sys the tem, how are we to overcome problem of unemployment when there are not enough jobs available.
Further more, the employment opportunities for our boys and girls remain inequit able so long as the Government per sists with its obnoxious and iniquitous policy of denying the pupils from the different media the proper scholastic assessment of sitting for their examinations in the principal medium of instruction.
This imbalance between diverse educational facilities and un- schools that I am convinced, Sir, that if every Member in this House were to search his or her heart sincerely and honestly, then we must all agree large sections of our people, all of them true and loyal Malaysians, are deeply dis satisfied with the existing educational policy and system.
Daily this dissatis faction grows in intensity as well as in scope, because as has been clearly brought out to all of us by the Honour able Minister of Finance, the problems of education, vexing as they are them selves, are further aggravated, because they are interlocked with the problems of language and of employment, and everyone must have somewhat cynical when we were offered family planning, as recommended by the very high level committee, headed by the Minister of Education, as the penulti mate solution of our problem.
felt to interrupt me during It was very apt for the Minister of Finance the general debate to interpolate that the Government's intention of providing a further period of three years schooling was in order to augment the skills of our children.

But surely, Sir, this pro blem must have been envisaged by the Alliance Party in power long before Merdeka?

The Report of first World Bank Mission to Malaya had already explosive nature of our population increase.
But in the early days the Government was the spirit of able to meet forecast it—the this the in 4529 2 DECEMBER 1965 4530 challenge, and the population increase was accepted as a vast potential source of manpower, which would mould our young nation into the prosperous and happy society of our dreams.

But the eight years after Merdeka were frittered away.

Education which was to be the instrument to unify and to integrate our people together became a persistent subject of political contro versy.
Education which was to provide our new generations with a sense of national pride and unity has become a basic issue dividing our people.

Educa tion which was to teach our people new skills to meet the growing needs of our nation, as it progresses towards industrialization, is now bogged down by conflicting objectives.

Sir, the entire Nation is concerned, concerned, over what will deeply happen to our children—tomorrow's Malaysians, because of the failure of our education policy and system.
With the creation of Malaysia the present system cannot even be called a truly integrated, or a truly national system.

What is good for some of the States of Malaya may not be equally good for the others, and certainly it may not be acceptable to the people in the States of Sabah and Sarawak.

It would have been impossible in the course of this Budget debate, especially in committee stage, to deal with the manifold issues of our educa tion policy and system.
But I think it is pertinent to state here and to state it clearly, that no one is satisfied with the present situation.

So deep and so widespread is this sense of dissatisfac tion that we can say, with fair asser tion, that the parents are dissatisfied, the children are dissatisfied, the tea chers are dissatisfied, and the Boards of Governors are dissatisfied; and when the next examination results come out, we will find out how much the people are dissatisfied.
Even within the confines of this House, Sir, this dissatisfaction per vades every corner and sector on either side of this House.

Surely the Members from the P.M.I.P.

are dissatisfied with the present education policy and sys tem.

The Members from the P.P.P.

are the Member the dissatisfied.

The Members from S.U.P.P.

are dissatisfied.

The Members of the Socialist Front, I am sure, are dissatisfied, and from Bungsar of the yet to be registered D.A.P., I am sure, is dissatisfied.
Sir, if the Members of the Alliance benches had the guts to say in this House what they say behind closed doors, or un officially to their intimates, we shall find that they too are dissatisfied.

The Alliance Government is aware of this deep and widespread sense of dissatis faction over the present education policy and system.
That is why they have to fall back upon their last trump card and ask the Tunku, Bapa Malay sia, to make the statement that he had a plan to solve this multifarious pro blem by making concessions, and so on.

Sir, it is a tribute to the unique quali the Prime ties of Minister that he has to be brought in to lessen the tensions that are building up over the question of education and language.
That tensions can become politically volatile and explo sive is a factor in the political develop ment of Malaysia which we must face up to realistically.

the Honourable these Two recent instances accentuate the gravity of this factor.

The first was the fact that the Honourable Minister for Home Affairs had to warn into silence the Education Committee of the Associated Guilds and Association which was formed the views of a considerable section of our people on the issue of official language and education.
Whether or not this silence is ominous or beneficial remains to be seen.

to represent inner tensions of The second instance, Sir, was an intra-Alliance affair which, until a tight censorship was imposed by the Honour able Minister of Education in his other capacity, reached prominence in the public press.

In this frank exposure of the in power, the public was given an insight into the inherent conflicts within the Alliance Party.
Naturally, the citizens of our country are greatly perturbed by the fact that after so many years the Party the elements of political racial discord.

So deeply ingrained are these chauvinistic in power the Party sustains still 4531 2 DECEMBER 1965 4532 stigmata that when a section of the M.C.A.

youth expressed their views and concern over the question of a sole official language in 1967, corres ponding sections of the UMNO youth threatened to revise the citizenship laws of this country.
have Therefore, Sir, we have to accept that the tensions created by the issue of education and language do exist and we may well ask ourselves earnestly why they unresolved.
remained the overall problems are Although complicated enough, the basic and fundamental reason why these tensions is because our multi-racial prevail society, with its manifold needs and aspirations, cannot be properly looked after by a unilateral type of approach, especially in education; and so long as the Alliance Party remains an unequal combination of communal or com munally-orientated so long will its approach to education and language remain unilateral.
organizations, referred demonstrate Thus, the two instances to which I have clearly to all of us that these tensions do not only build up between the people and the administration but that they are also self-generating within in power itself.

To this extent the failure of the Alliance Government to resolve these the present is because the education policy and system of Alliance Party is somewhat like trying to open a many bevelled lock with the point of a knife.

It cannot be done.
It cannot be done.

the Party issues to say that issues are Sir, lest I be misinterpreted, I would the education and like language interlocked pro blems because of the decision made by the the Government, based upon to Rahman Talib Report of 1960, conduct all public examinations in the official languages.
This recommenda tion was made and accepted by the Government, in spite of the Report itself admitting that it was academically unsound to make a pupil sit for exami nations except in the main medium whereby he received instruction.

Sir, the actual words of the Report which appeard in page 30 are very interesting.

"It has been strongly represented," the from many Report reads, "to us, this that examinations public quarters should be conducted in the language medium of the secondary schools."
The Committee says: "We agree with the principle underlying representa tion."

Again the Committee says: "It is not reasonable to teach a child in one language and examine him in another."

the Sir, in this light, the pupils English medium schools, and their parents also, must view the language issues of 1967 with increasing concern and dismay.
To round off my argu ments, Sir, these two issues of education interlocked and language are further employment with opportunities, because such opportuni ties are still dependent, to a very large extent, upon the examination certifi cates which the students qualify.

the problem of in The reason why I have deliberately proposed the $10 the reduction of token vote in Sub-head 8 of S. 19 is fortuitous.
But everyone who is con versant with the political controversies the past decade over education of realises that it was through the means of grants to secondary schools applying for conversion to full assistance that the Alliance Government destroyed the structure of private schools, and in particular of Chinese medium schools, which had played a valuable part in the educational development of our country.
Sir, it was also by way of the provision of Sub-head 8 that the present Education budget has swollen up to its present proportions.

Instead of fulfilling the hopes of the Malays of providing full the medium of the National Language in the and existing Government-built Government-owned schools up to the secondary and even the University levels, the Party in power had embarked upon the scheme of absorption of the private schools.

And this has increased the prevailing discontent.


I also have the lurking suspicion that the present token vote may perhaps be used as the instrument to lure the schools in Sabah and Sarawak into the present Malayan system rather than Into a truly national Malaysian system.
Furthermore, Sir, by choosing a sub-head for my amendment I wanted to indicate that my opposition is not directed towards the Ministry or facilities of education in 4533 2 DECEMBER 1965 4534 rather the Minister concerned but towards the policy and the system which he has to implement; and I think in the course of his speech he has clearly indicated that this is thrown back to his predecessors.
Sir, education is such an important matter in our young nation that we truly cannot afford to permit partisan controversies to sap away its potentia lities.

At the same time, Sir, the public expenditure on Education is the second largest item in our Budget, actually, by itself, it is the single largest budget item, and therefore we cannot permit a system which has outlived its usefulness to mar the prospects of future genera tions of Malaysians.
Certainly, with the formation of Malaysia, and in the Malaysian context, the old policy which had some application in the Federation of Malaya in the years immediately prior to and following the attainment of Merdeka, cannot be entirely consonant the changed conditions in the with context of a Malaysia including the States of Sabah and Sarawak, parti cularly following the eviction of the State of Singapore.
As I had outlined in brief earlier, Sir, the problems of Education are complex and the dissatisfaction over the present policy and system derives from diverse attitudes, diverse emo these intensities.

And when tional problems are further supplemented by the highly emotional issues of language and by the dire economic issues of survival employment terms of opportunities, we are confronted with a situation which can only be solved by understanding, tolerance and, above all, by patience and time.
In the absence of any one of these three factors— time— tolerance and understanding, the can be dangerously situation volatile.

in It is not enough for us to call on Bapa Malaysia, and it is unrealistic for us to hope that the people in the country are going to be assuaged by vague concessions, which at the very best are nebulous and uninformative.
Perhaps the Prime Minister may buy us some time, but unless the Government decides, and the educational that decides the Honourable soon, policy and system should be reviewed in the context of the needs of the people of Malaysia, we will again fritter away what little time is left for us to remove this political time-fuse.
to the Government Sir, in opposing the present education policy and system in this manner, that is by way of reducing the allocated sum, it is not my intention to fight the battles of the past.

We are more con cerned with the future and the dangers of the present time.

So it is, Sir, that we propose to separate the issues of Education from issues of Language and the other Employment opportunities.
This can be effected by abandoning the iniquitous recommendations of the Rahman Talib Report and by Government accepting the scholastically sound principle of permitting the pupils to sit for their examinations in the principal medium of the National Language as a compulsory subject of attainment.
instruction with Following this isolation of the Edu cation problem to itself, we would like further to propose that the Government should elevate the issues of Education above the level of political partisan controversy.

This the Government can achieve by appointing a Special Com mittee to Review our National Educa tional Policy and System which should consist, amongst other persons, repre sentative members from all political parties in this House.
to something constructive In the meantime, until the Committee this so appointed has reported House, we would like to suggest a political moratorium over the problems of Education.

If these suggestions are accepted in good faith, then perhaps the opposition benches will have con tributed to resolve the long festering ills of the present the interests of the future generations of Malaysians I appeal to the Government to seriously consider these proposals.
We cannot afford to create a situation in the near future, where we will be forced to commit the new lineage of the limbo of Malaysians either enforced family planning or of mutual self-destruction.

The time to act is now.

education system.


In to 4535 2 DECEMBER 1965 4536 slide down It is in the light of the possible dire consequences which can befall our nation if we continue to let educational matters the precipitous slopes of racial disaffection, and the realisation that time is rapidly running out for us that has prompted me to move amendment of reducing the total sum allocated for Education by $10.
When we further contemplate that it is not impossible to avert the dangers which confront us, it becomes our bounden duty to protest as vehemently and as vigorously as we can against the educational policy and system as it exists today.

formal this in education, So long as the Government persists with its present unequal and unjust policies language and employment, so long will we oppose it with all strength the courage and which the opposition can rally together.
Nevertheless, Sir, it is my hope that the reasons which I have put forward to support my amendment will have shakened and awakened the Govern ment to the enormity of the dangers which can develop from the education, language and employment problems.

We cannot allow these issues to go on festering until bursting point.

We owe it to the younger and future generations of Malaysians to resolve these volatile and explosive problems of educa tion with justice and in the spirit of equality.
to ensure that we spend In no other sector of our national life will we be called upon to act with the same degree of utmost vigour, understanding, tolerance and patience as in the field of Education.

It is our that every absolute duty single cent this in enormous expenditure on Education shall be well-spent.
The measure of how well we have executed this responsibility will not be assessed by the number of schools or the number of pupils and teachers we are providing for, it will be assessed only upon how many Malaysians educational system will evolve out of our existing multi-racial society.

the In effect, Sir, this amendment to reduce the sum under Sub-head 8 of S. 19 by $10 calls upon the Govern ment to review the present education policy and system by the setting up of an all-party Committee of Review.
I urge all the members of this House to support the amendment.

To those on the Alliance benches I say that here is the opportunity true colours to the people.

It is useless to go outside this House and promise the people all sorts of things if you shirk your responsibility when the opportu nity is presented to you to fulfill your promises as the people in Parliament.

representatives of to show your To the Government, and especially to the Honourable Minister of Educa tion I make this plea.
The processes of parliamentary debate impose upon me to make my views by way of this amendment.

Nevertheless, I sincerely hope that the proposals will be accepted with the same goodwill as they were offered.

For the sake of Malaysia, in the interests of future generations of Malaysians, we must elevate the pro blems of Education above the level of political partisanship.

And we must do it now; otherwise the future for all of us will be bleak and perilous indeed.
Sir, I beg to move that the sum to be allocated for Head S. 19 be reduced by $10 in respect of Sub-head 8—Grants to Secondary Schools applying for con version to full assistance.

izin tuan, Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah (Bachok): Tuan Pengerusi, saya juga dengan turut berchakap sama dalam masaalah pelajaran.
Nam- telah pak-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, kita berpeluang membahathkan sadikit sa- banyak perkara2 yang berhubong de ngan dasar pelajaran, sa-lain daripada kita hendak membahathkan berkenaan dengan bayaran2 yang kita untokkan bagi tiap2 satu butir.

Tuan Pengerusi, walau bagaimana sa-kali pun, keadaan yang kita hadapi sekarang sama ada baik, atau pun burok, saya ada satu perkara yang saya dapat menerima kaseh kapada Menteri Pelajaran ini, ia-itu oleh kerana Menteri Pelajaran kita dapat menge- mukakan .

.
.

.. Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: itu membahathkan Yang Berhormat 4537 2 DECEMBER 1965 4538 Pelajaran, peruntokan Kementerian atau kita membinchangkan pindaan daripada Ahli dari Tanjong terlebeh dahulu?

Mr Chairman: Saya suka hendak mengingatkan kapada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat, perbahathan ini khas bagi pindaan sahaja—khas bagi pindaan sahaja.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, masaalah pindaan ini, pada pendapat saya, ta' dapat-lah saya hendak menerima, atau pun menolak, melainkan dengan saya dapat membandingkan pendapat saya, ke mudian baharu-lah saya dapat memberi conclusion Mr Chairman: Ta' boleh bagitu.

Sama ada sokong, atau tidak, mesti tahu dahulu.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, yang saya sebutkan bagitu ia-lah saya menyokong bahawa ada rasa ta' puas hati terhadap policy pelajaran ini pada angle yang lain.
ini, tetapi Mr Chairman: Tetapi kalau rasa ta' puas hati sahaja, kemudian bila sampai kapada S. 19 di-buka balek sa-bagai perbahathan biasa, boleh di-chakap lagi.

Sekarang ta' payah berchakap, ta' hendak menyokong pada kalau pindaan ini.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Ya, saya sokong pindaan ini.

Mr Chairman: Sokong pindaan?

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Ya.

Tuan Pengerusi, dengan menyo kong pindaan ini, berpeluang-lah saya berchakap, jikalau tidak, tentu-lah saya tidak boleh berchakap.
Tuan Pengerusi Mr Chairman: Dan saya suka hendak mengingatkan boleh berchakap, tetapi chuma atas pindaan sahaja.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Nampak-nya sempit juga, Tuan Penge rusi.

Tuan Pengerusi, benda yang saya kemukakan dalam sokongan saya ini ia-lah berdasarkan kapada Penyata saya memberi butir2 Jawatan-kuasa Menyemak Dasar Pela jaran tahun 1960.
Oleh kerana saya hendak meringkaskan masa, tidak-lah mustahak itu kesemua, tetapi saya dapati Penyata Pelajaran ini—Penyata Penyiasatan ini pun memberikan shor, memberikan banyak shor kapada report, atau pun penyata yang telah di-buat yang di- namakan Penyata Rahman Talib dahulu.

Jadi, Tuan Pengerusi, kalau- lah ini merupakan satu keputusan, atau pun shor daripada Jawatan-kuasa Menyemak Dasar bagi Pelajaran tahun I960 pun berkehendakkan beberapa ini-lah perubahan, maka saya yang terkemuka sa-kali.
rasa Saya tidak tahu ada-kah tidak ada Jawatan-kuasa yang terkemudian sa- kali, tetapi yang sampai pada tangan saya ini, ia-lah penyata Jawatan-kuasa yang terakhir sa-kali.

Dalam penyata Jawatan-kuasa ini pun mengeshorkan banyak perubahan2 baharu.
Ini me- nunjokkan bahawa Jawatan-kuasa itu sendiri pun berasa tidak senang dengan policy pelajaran yang ada ini, sama ada rasa kegelisahan itu tidak senang dengan alasan2 yang sama dengan yang di-bawa oleh Ahli dari Tanjong, atau pun sama dengan yang saya bawakan, maka itu ada-lah masaalah lain, tetapi apa yang saya hendak tekankan ia-lah ada rasa tidak puas hati itu, terhadap policy pelajaran maka sebab itu-lah beberapa banyak shor yang membena, di-shorkan dan di-kemukakan.
Daripada segi itu-lah maka saya menyokong supaya policy pelajaran itu di-semak sa-mula.

Tuan Pengerusi, mithal-nya, kita kata salah satu yang menjadi masaalah besar sekarang ia-lah masaalah ini buku2 sekolah, ia-itu text book dan Menteri kita pun mengaku bahawa masaalah ini ada-lah masaalah besar.

Memang di-dalam penyata ini pun sama juga dengan pendapat Menteri kita.
Jadi, erti-nya Menteri Pelajaran lagi satu kita sudah menambahkan hujah bahawa policy itu patut di-semak sa-mula dan Dewan Bahasa kita, oleh kerana beberapa hal yang saya tidak tahu, tetapi yang terang kapada saya ia-lah tidak dapat menerbitkan buku2 sekolah, atau pun text book sa-hingga- lah pada masa2 yang akhir ini pun 4539 2 DECEMBER 1965 4540 itu satu ingat perbadanan, sa-suatu, dia tidak chukup lagi, pada hal maseh itu, meski pun dia Dewan Bahasa merupakan dia bukan Kerajaan, erti-nya dia bebas boleh membuat suka mengeluarkan buku2 novel, atau pun buku2 pengetahuan sahaja, tetapi kita hendak-lah bahawa Dewan Bahasa di-tubohkan mengikut Undang2 Pelajaran, kalau tidak salah saya, Nombor 25 tahun 1959.
Jadi, erti-nya di-tubohkan Dewan Bahasa ia-lah untok menolong Kemen- itu ta' terian Pelajaran, itu di- salah saya, Dewan Bahasa daripada di-atas tubohkan Penyata Rahman Talib, oleh kerana itu-lah Jawatan-kuasa Penyata Penye- mak Sa-mula pada tahun 1960 mem- terima kaseh kapada keadaan beri tertuboh-nya yang Dewan Bahasa.

Jadi, ini pun Menteri kita mengaku ini pun kalau berlaku, ia-itu shor .

.
.

.. kapada Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Saya merasa usul pindaan daripada Ahli dari Tanjong mengenai penukaran sekolah bantuan penoh, ia-itu melalm bahasa rasmi, ta' buku ada tidak di- Dewan Bahasa.

Hal sentoh-nya.

Kalau ada modal dalam hal ini, baik diam sahaja, nanti habis hal itu—chakap kemudian.

dengan itu kena-mengena sekolah ta' Enche9 Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: .

.
.

.. Tuan Pengerusi Mr Chairman: Itu yang saya ingat tadi di-muka 212, di-bawah Pechahan- kepala 8—Pemberian kapada Sekolah Menengah yang meminta tukar men jadi sekolah bantuan penoh—Inggeris- nya, Grant to Secondary Schools applying for conversion to full assis tance.

Itu yang menjadi usul yang di- bawa oleh Ahli dari Tanjong itu tadi.

Jadi kalau berchakap atas itu boleh- lah, kalau tidak, ta' usah-lah dahulu.
Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: saya berpendapat Tuan Pengerusi, tadi, ini di-waktu Ahli dari Tanjong ini mengatakan "The present policy", erti-nya policy pelajaran yang ada sekarang ini menimbulkan rasa tidak puas hati dan kesemua orang berasa tidak puas hati dan Menteri sendiri pun maseh tidak puas hati lagi.
Sebab tidak itu di-kemukakan beberapa banyak pindaan dan saya fikir yang bahawa Menteri kita ini—yang saya dudok berchakap sekarang ini dekat dengan satu benda, dan saya tidak mahu specialise berkenaan dengan diri saya, Tuan Pengerusi .

.

.. Mr Chairman: Itu atoran dan per- atoran perbahathan kita ini.

Bila di- terikat pada bawa pindaan, kena pindaan itu sahaja.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Kalau bagitu, Tuan Pengerusi, hendak kata saya salah pun tidak betul, ta' silap juga.
Saya betul dengan apa yang saya bahathkan, hanya agak-nya ber- lainan daripada apa yang tuan punya tahu.

Saya rasa ta' apa-lah sahabat yang lain berchakap lagi dan saya, sa-benar- nya, ta' dapat hendak concentrate di-atas benda yang tertentu itu sa-lagi saya tidak dapat berchakap berkenaan dengan gambaran kesemua-nya itu, dan saya rasa, kalau saya berchakap pun, tegas dalam perkara ini.

tidak bagitu tentu-lah Mr Chairman: Beri peluang kapada Ahli2 lain yang hendak berchakap.
Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangun bagi membangkang keras dan sa-penoh-nya di-atas pindaan yang di-datangkan tadi bagi oleh Ahli dari Tanjong menghapuskan peruntokan tokan $10 daripada Sub-head 8, S. 19 itu.
Saya sendiri dan ramai orang di-Malaysia pada hari ini memikirkan, kalau ada orang yang tidak puas hati dengan dasar pelajaran sekarang, orang yang paling akhir patut tidak puas hati ia-lah Ahli dari Tanjong itu sendiri, kerana dasar pelajaran yang ada ini sendiri, itu beliau timbul pada masa beliau menjadi sa-orang anggota yang telah membentok dasar pelajaran ini.

Berapa lidah dan berapa otak Ahli ini pakai dalam menghadapi ramai?
Saya perchaya pada orang masa Ahli dari Tanjong ini menjadi Yang di-Pertua M.C.A., beliau-lah menjadi penasihat besar kapada Men teri Pelajaran yang pada masa itu membentok dasar pelajaran kebang- saan menjelang kita merdeka, yang di-namakan Dasar Pelajaran Razak dari 4541 2 DECEMBER 1965 4542 'ajaib datang daripada dan daripada Dasar Pelajaran Razak itu-lah berjalan-nya Dasar Pelajaran Kebangsaan kita sekarang ini.

Maka kenapa beliau sendiri hari ini mengatakan tidak puas sunggoh2.

hati?
hati?

Hairan dan Ini-lah orang yang munafik dalam politik, dan umor orang yang munafik dalam politik ini tidak panjang, Tuan Pengerusi.

Pada saya, Dasar Pelajaran ini Kebangsaan yang ada sekarang ia-iah sa-baik2 dasar yang dapat di- terima oleh kebanyakan orang, atau sa-bahagian besar ra'ayat Malaysia kita pada hari ini.

Barangkali tidak ada satu benda yang perfect .

.

.. that.
.

.. that.

I stressed, Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, on a point of clarification, I think the Honourable Member has got hold of the wrong end of the stick, because first of all, the education my connection with policy stems back to 1956, and the Rahman Talib Report, which is the basis of the present education policy, was made in 1960—and I had no in connection with particular, that the reference I made was from paragraph 174, page 30 of the 1960 Report of the Rahman Talib Committee.
It comes under Chapter in Chapter IX we see the IX and absolute break away in the educational policy as conceived in 1956 and as it was later reviewed in 1960.

That was the first point.

The other point which I think the Honourable Member must keep in mind is one which I have brought up: the 1960 that I said policy and the present policy was originally designed for the States of Malaya, i.e., the Federation of Malaya.

So, today when we already have Malaysia, a new set of conditions take place.
If that is not clear, I do not think that it is either due to mental deficiency or mental deliquency on my part, but it is just probably due to the deficiency in the intelligence quotient in the Honourable Member.
Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Tuan Pengerusi, kalau ingatan saya tidak salah, satu fasal yang terpenting dalam Penyata Razak yang Ahli dari Tanjong turut bersama membentok- nya ia-lah menyatakan bahawa tujuan akhir Dasar Pelajaran Kebangsaan itu ia-lah menjadikan bahawa kebangsaan itu, bahasa pengantar yang utama bagi semua sekolah.

Dan barangkali beliau tidak dapat menapikan ini.

Dan saya harap perkara lagi dapat di-elakkan oleh beliau.
tidak ini Dr Lim Chong Eu: Sir, I don't deny that, never had and never will.
akan politik orang2 daripada sa-bagai Ahli Wan Abdul Kadir bin Ismail: Jadi, Tuan Pengerusi, keadaan dengan pindaan yang di-bawa oleh Ahli dari Tanjong ini, pada fikiran saya, kalau ini jika di- beliau mengatakan soal benarkan berlanjutan sampai kapada bursting point dan orang yang membawa-nya kapada bursting point ia-lah dari Tanjong itu sendiri, gulongan2 oppor tunist—bangsa yang hanya menanggok keuntongan soal bahasa ini sahaja, tidak ada lagi modal yang lain, orang yang sudah bengkerap politik-nya dalam perkara2 yang lain.
Saya berharap dan segala negara ber- harap tidak ada lagi-lah perchubaan2 ini, perchubaan2 hendak sa-bagai mengapi2kan lagi soal bahasa ini yang memang sangat banyak bahaya-nya jika kita api2kan dari sa-masa ka- sa-masa.

Apa-kah perkara yang tidak di-puas hatikan oleh Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu, tentang penukaran Sekolah Menengah kapada sekolah yang di- bantu dengan sharat yang di-buat hendak-lah menjadikan bahasa pe ngantar dua bahasa yang rasmi yang ini.
Dalam Sekolah ada di-negeri Menengah sekarang— converted school yang ada sekarang— hampir 1/3 daripada masa pelajaran segala di-khaskan kapada mengajar perkara bersangkut dengan bahasa China kapada sekolah itu di-convert daripada sekolah itu.

Dan sa-lepas itu murid2 ini akan di-salorkan kapada sekolah2 tinggi sampai ada Chair di- universiti.

Maka apa-kah lagi soal yang tidak puas hati, hendak menjadi kan keselurohan-nya, lagi be- rupakan kebangsaan, hanya berupa ini-kah Chauvinist?
Ini- ka-Chinaan, kah yang hendak di-bawa oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat Jangan ber- selindong2 di-sa-balek bahasa, jangan berselindong2 di-sa-balek kata2 yang endah2, sa-benar-nya hendak membawa faham Chauvinist yang akan menghanchorkan negeri kita ini.

tetapi tidak yang itu?


ada 4543 2 DECEMBER 1965 4544 di-adakan ini sa-lepas Tuan Pengerusi, apa-kah guna lagi hendak Jawatan-kuasa Penyemak daripada semua parti, jika parti yang ada ini sudah dua kali di-pileh oleh ra'ayat dengan dasar pe- tahun lajaran yang ada 1960, sa-lepas Penyata Rahman Talib pun di-pileh dengaix majority yang ber- ganda2 lebeh?

Dan parti Ahli Tanjong itu sendiri, hanya beliau tunggal itu- lah sahaja yang menang dalam Pilehan Raya di-seluroh Tanah Melayu pada tahun 1964.
Maka ini merupakan satu mandat, dan apa-kah mandat yang lebeh besar daripada itu?

Maka biar- ini, kita lah kita serahkan perkara tahu perkara ini explosive dan Perdana Menteri initiative telah mengambil untok melichinkan penyesuaian-nya.

Maka mengapa-kah kita maseh lagi lagi mengamit2, menchuit?—maseh maseh lagi mengapi2 dan menyala2kan perkara ini dari sa-masa ka-masa?
Kalau sa-benar sa-orang patriot yang chintakan negara ini, yang chintakan kesentosaan dan yang chintakan tanah ayer sendiri—tanah ayer yang ada ini, tentu Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak sampai membawa perkara sa-bagini berulang2 kali dan ini kali yang akhir—sa-takat ini yang beliau telah selamat-lah negara jalankan.

Akan Malaysia saperti Yang Berhormat itu, beransor2 lenyap daripada arena politik kita.
Biar-lah ada ahli2 politik yang bertanggong- jawab, yang berani bertanggong-jawab, yang tahu chinta kapada negara kita ini—yang tahu apa-kah perkara dan issue yang merbahaya dan tidak mer- bahaya kapada negara kita ini kapada masharakat berbilang bangsa ini!

jikalau Ahli2 ini, jalan Tuan Pengerusi, sebab tidak nampak itu maka saya langsong hendak menyokong pindaan yang di- datangkan oleh Yang Berhormat itu.
Pada masa ini barangkali perkara yang mengechewakan harapan Ahli Yang Berhormat ini yang telah ber- Penyata kempen Rahman Talib lahir—berkempen ka- seluroh Sekolah2 China supaya jangan menerima conversion daripada sekolah yang bukan di-bantu penoh kapada tetapi lebeh sekolah di-bantu penoh separoh Sekolah2 Menengah China sudah menerima bantuan penoh!
Ini semenjak dari daripada berpelajaran menjadi puncha kekechewaan per- sendiri, menyatakan juangan beliau ramai China, orang bahawa orang yang kaum China kita yang sedarkan dan tahukan tanggong-jawab sa-bagai warga-negara kita, tidak terbawa2 oleh di'ayah falsu dan dasar hypocrite yang di-bawa oleh Ahli2 Politik dari Tanjong.

Dan saya perchaya, ra'ayat ter- negeri pengaroh dengan di'ayah falsu yang di-adakan.

Dan saya mengatakan saya membangkang keras atas pindaan ini.
tidak sa-kali2 akan sa-bagai Ahli sa-kali lagi ini Enche' Abdul Razak bin Haji Hussin (Lipis): Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangun hendak berchakap sadikit tentang usul yang di-kemukakan oleh Yang Berhor mat wakil dari Tanjong yang berke- supaya di-potong wang hendakkan sa-banyak $10 daripada peruntokan dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan tahun hadapan, ia-itu pemberian wang ka pada Sekolah2 Menengah yang minta tukar menjadi sekolah bantuan penoh.
Tuan Pengerusi, dengan pindaan ini, maka berma'ana-lah anggaran atau token vote sa-banyak $10 di-bawah langsong Kepala-kechil 8, tidak ada di-dalam Anggaran Perbelanjaan tahun 1966.

Kita tidak tahu, apa-kah yang sa-benar-nya terpendam di-dalam jiwa dan lubok hati Yang Berhormat itu, yang hendak menghapuskan langsong anggaran di-dalam butiran ini, wal-hal token vote itu berada di-situ dalam tahun yang lalu.
Berhubong dengan hal ini, maka timbul-lah berbagai2 per- tanyaan dan persoalan yang mengenai tujuan yang sa-benar-nya yang men- dorongkan Yang Berhormat itu menge- mukakan usul-nya.

Dalam perkara ini, Tuan Pengerusi, kita tidak boleh mem- istilah yang beri pentafsiran luas.

Bagi saya sendiri, maka langkah wakil Tanjong itu sa-mata2 membuka mata orang ramai kapada tembelang- nya sendiri.
Saya katakan tembelang tadi, kerana beliau itu mendedahkan segala2 yang dahulu2-nya, beliau itu berpura2 memperjuangkan-nya.

Apa yang saya maksudkan di-sini ia-lah penghapusan token vote itu berma'ana tamat-nya usaha Kerajaan kita hendak menggalakkan sekolah2 yang belum lagi menerima bantuan penoh di-negeri2 ini atau 4545 2 DECEMBER 1965 4546 supaya menerima dan patoh kapada Dasar Pelajaran Kebangsaan kita.
Sa-bagai yang kita ketahui, Tuan Pengerusi, memang maseh banyak Sekolah2 Private—Sekolah Bersendi- rian, yang belum menerima bantuan penoh daripada Kerajaan.

Kapada Se kolah2 Private ini, penghapusan token vote, itu sudah tentu di-anggap oleh mereka bahawa Kerajaan telah menu- tup pintu, atau peluang untok mereka menerima bantuan penoh dan mengikut Dasar Pelajaran Kebangsaan kita.
Saya perchaya sekolah2 private ini bukan tidak mahu menerima bantuan itu, tetapi kelambatan mereka menerima bantuan penoh itu ada-lah di-sebabkan oleh keraguan dan kebimbangan sa- tengah2 ibu bapa terhadap satu2 per- ubahan.

Lebeh2 lagi, penerangan yang di-beri oleh sa-tengah gulongan yang boleh meragukan dan lebeh membim- bangkan ibu bapa itu sendiri.

Keraguan sa-saorang manusia itu sudah sa-wajar- nya timbul, apabila menghadapi satu2 perubahan hidup.
Lebeh2 lagi ada-nya kemungkinan tekanan politik dari sa- tengah2 petualang politik.

Sunggoh pun bagitu, saya perchaya dan telah pun di-boktikan ia-itu Sekolah2 Private ini sudah mempunyai keyakinan terhadap kejujoran Kerajaan kita dalam masa- alah ini.

Masa-nya akan kita, dalam masa keraguan pendukong2 Sekolah Private yang jumlah-nya kechil sahaja sekarang ini, akan menerima bantuan penoh serta patoh kapada Dasar Pela jaran Kebangsaan kita.
Penerimaan mereka, pada fikiran mereka lebeh chepat jika petualang politik, atau orang yang mengapi2kan perkara yang sa-umpama di-kemukakan oleh Yang Berhormat wakil dari Tanjong tadi, tidak menjadikan masaalah ini, Tuan Pengerusi, sa-bagai sa-olah2 modal politik.

Tuan Pengerusi, sa-telah kita meng- kaji sejarah perjuangan sahabat kita dari Tanjong itu dari masa beliau dalam Perikatan hingga hari ini, beliau senentiasa menyuarakan, atau menjadi jagoh untok mempertahankan bahasa dan kebudayaan China.
Tetapi, pada hari ini, Tuan Pengerusi, mari-lah kita bertanya kapada diri sendiri.

Kenapa pula beliau hendak menghapuskan token vote itu?

Pada-hal sekolah2 yang mendapat bantuan daripada Kerajaan sekarang ini, memberi jaminan yang penoh untok mengekalkan dan men- jaga perkembangan bahasa dan kebu dayaan China itu.
Di-samping mem punyai sa-suatu bahasa, di-samping mempunyai satu bahasa kebangsaan, saya memang tidak sangka yang wakil dari Tanjong itu sanggup mengemuka- kan perkara ini di-dalam Dewan yang mulia ini, tetapi dugaan saya meleset.
Mengikut istilah saya sendiri, Tuan Pengerusi, usul itu ada-lah merupakan langkah yang pertama untok hendak menyekat segala peluang bagi sekolah2 private ini, mendapat bantuan Kerajaan ini, sa-chara yang berma'ana usul tidak langsong, menyekat atau mem- bunoh sumber2 perkembangan bahasa dan kebudayaan China di-negeri ini, jikalau sa-kira-nya ini di-persetujukan.
Tuan Pengerusi, dengan usul ini, maka orang ramai dapat menentukan pendirian Yang Berhormat wakil dari Tanjong itu ka-mana dan kenapa, maka usul ini di-kemukakan.

Wakil Tanjong menudoh Perikatan hendak menghapuskan kebudayaan China dan baha(sa China, tetapi pada pendapat saya, wakil Yang Berhormat itu tidak boleh di-salahkan, dan jika perkem bangan bahasa China dalam negeri ini Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Chair man, Sir, on point or order, this is irrelevant, and repeating the argument again.
Mr Chairman: He is getting to the point.

Will you please sit and let him speak?

Enche' Abdul Razak bin Hussin: Terima kaseh, Tuan Pengerusi, saya harap dia boleh mendengar chadangan saya dalam masaalah ini.

Dan jika kita ikuti kemajuan yang di-chapai oleh sekolah China yang menerima bantuan penoh dari Kerajaan sekarang ini, maka kita dapati perjalanan-nya lebeh baik daripada sa-belum dia menerima dahulu.
Saya katakan bagitu, kerana sekolah2 ini mempunyai susunan pelajaran yang sama dengan sekolah2 lain dan mem punyai guru2 yang terlateh.

Bukan itu sahaja, Sijil Sekolah China dahulu 4547 2 DECEMBER 1965 4548 tidak dapat mempunyai pengi'tirafan dari Kerajaan.

Tetapi pada hari ini, Tuan Pengerusi, dengan ada-nya pepe- reksaan yang sama, baik dalam pe- rengkat L.C.E, atau Sijil Pelajaran Persekutuan, maka kelulusan mereka di-akui oleh Kerajaan negeri kita.
Di-mana-kah salah-nya Kerajaan kita dalam perkara ini yang menyebabkan wakil tersebut sanggup membukakan usul yang bagitu rupa?—yang pada tamat-nya pendapat saya merupakan peluang bagi sekolah2 private mene- rima bantuan penoh dari Kerajaan.

Ini hanya-lah kenekmatan yang lazim di-rasai oleh sekolah2 yang mengambil bantuan penoh dan Dasar Pelajaran Kebangsaan kita.
Apabila peluang Sekolah Private hendak menerima bantuan penoh dari- pada Kerajaan di-tutup, Tuan Penge rusi, maka sa-chara tidak langsong kita menggalakkan dua jenis persekolahan di-negeri kita ini, ia-itu Sekolah Kera jaan yang mengikut dasar pelajaran kebangsaan kita, dan sekolah yang mengikut dasar private dia itu.

Maka sudah tentu-lah kedudokan masharakat kita akan boleh kelak menjadi pin- ehang.
Saya katakan bagitu, kerana mungkin atau pun sudah tentu, Sekolah Private ini tidak menggunakan susunan pelajaran, dan buku2 yang berchorak kebangsaan saperti mana yang di- jalankan dalam sekolah bantuan penoh demikian itu tidak di-pakai sa-bagai- mana di-jalankan di-sekolah2 Kerajaan yang menerima bantuan penoh.
faktor Apabila kedua2 ini dan susunan pelajaran buku2 text ini tidak sesuai dengan kehendak negeri dan negara kita, maka sudah tentu chorak masharakat yang keluar, yang zahir yang di-asoh dan di-didek dari Seko lah Private ini, nanti berlainan dengan chorak masharakat yang di-keluarkan atau di-didek di-Sekolah2 Kerajaan.

Jadi ini berlaku, Tuan Pengerusi, maka sudah tentu-lah ia akan bertentangan dengan jiwa dan Perlembagaan kita.
Dan pada asas perjuangan kemerdekaan kita, ia-itu hendak membentok sa-buah mashara kat yang baharu dan bersatu padu serta ta'at setia, yang tidak berbelah bahagi, kapada negara kita ini.
jikalau kedudokan Maka dengan keadaan itu, saya sahaja, mempunyai satu kesimpulan Tuan Pengerusi, mengenai usul wakil dari Tanjong ini ia-itu Yang Berhormat ini berusaha hendak menyekat per- kembangan bahasa dan kebudayaan sa-sunggoh-nya, walau pun China, beliau itu berpura2 menjadi jagoh di- luar, hatta di-dalam, Dewan ini.

Dengan itu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya menentang usul ini.

Terima kaseh.

Mr Chairman: Persidangan ini di- tempohkan.

Sitting suspended at 6.15 p.m.


Sitting resumed at 6.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Debate resumed.

Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak membuat satu kenyataan ia-itu waktu saya ber- chakap tadi berkenaan dengan pindaan tadi, saya mengembalikan perkara itu "in policy".

Jadi saya, yang sa-benar- nya, tidak nampak butiran itu, jadi saya tidak berchakap dalam perkara itu, erti-nya perchakapan saya ini tadi tidak di-kira berchakap sebab saya tersilap—misunderstand.
Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato Kramat): Mr Chairman, Sir, it is very difficult not to accept the fact, after listening to the last two speakers on the Alliance Bench, that the situation is not explosive.

I might not have risen to speak on this motion, if I had not felt that everyone has the right to move any amendment he wants.
With regard to our education policy involving certain sections of our citi zens, I was speaking to some other Member of this House outside and he asked us—that is the Socialist Front— if we were clear on this policy and whether we support racialism or not.

I stated quite clearly that we do not support racialism, but that grants to secondary schools applying for conver sion to full assistance carry with it a policy which we do not, or which we cannot altogether accept.
Now, before I go on, Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to make the situation clear.

Firstly, 4549 2 DECEMBER 1965 4550 the mover of this motion said that he was not against Malay as a language to be taught in all schools.

Our policy is slightly different.

We say that all educational programmes should be into three sections, and we divided have said that since 1959 in our policy statement.
to in all schools The first section shall be subjects the same taught standard in Malay and that this section should be adjustable according to the standard of Malay at any given time in this country, but first we can start with the Malay language and Malay literature, and all schools should teach the Malay language and Malay litera ture to the same standard—Chinese schools, Indian schools, and English to be schools.
Later on expanded so that they may be taught in History, and may be in Geography, and the arts, and so on.

In other words, the first section should be taught in Malay.

these are is, those schools can subjects, but instruction.
This, The second section of our educational programme for all schools is that those schools may teach those subjects in the second group in their medium of instruction and may be tested in those subjects in their medium of instruction, so that in Section "B", or the second group, English teach science in English, can teach English literature in English, can teach Chemis try, or whatever in English.
it Chinese schools should be allowed to teach also in Chinese, and they may be examined in those subjects according to the medium of therefore, will ensure that everybody passing out of all our schools will have the same standard of knowledge in Malay, but they shall all be bilingual.

I think it is generally accepted that if we do away with English education altogether it would be wrong.

It is also, I think, generally accepted amongst Chinese educated people that they should not do language altogether.
That also would be wrong.

Therefore, a bi-lingual system is neces sary and the bi-lingual system should not discriminate against languages such as Chinese.

I do not think that it is racial.

away with Chinese Then, Sir, the third section will be the voluntary, non-compulsory, section.

This section shall deal with third languages.

In all Chinese schools, they may, if they wish, put in their pro gramme of education in English, under Group "C".
In English schools, they teach Chinese as an optional may subject, so that our students must necessarily know two languages, and may, if they wish to, learn three.
I would even go so far as to say, Mr Chairman, Sir—and here I think I should clarify again that my state ment is only a suggestion to make people think again; it is not put forward seriously to compel acceptance—that if learn English as a second we can language; learn the Chinese can if language; why Malay as a second cannot the Malays learn Chinese as a second language?

After all, we are all Asians.

We should not be prejudiced against another Asian language.
So, Mr Chairman, Sir, that is how we look at the situation.

Now, coming this amendment to itself, it is perhaps because people were emotionally blinded that they did not understand the effect of this amend ment.

The effect of this amendment is merely to take away $10 from a token vote.

If there is no amendment, we still get only a $10 token vote, which means that there will be no conversions in Malaya in any event.
So my Honour able friend from Tanjong has merely moved symbolic gesture for the purpose of raising an argument.

Why can't he argue?

He has a right to argue.

Just because he argues, we cannot call him a racialist, and I can see clearer, because our position in this House as well as outside this House has been very clear since 1959. this motion as a Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad (Kota Star Selatan): Mr Chairman, it was not so much the fact that he argued that he was called a racialist.
It was the fact that he argued from a racialist point of view that makes him a racialist.

Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Who?

Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad: You were pointing from Tanjong as having a right to argue and to the Member 4551 2 DECEMBER 1965 4552 that he was accused of being a racialist because he argued.

He was not accused of being a racialist because he argued, but it is because he argued from a racialist point of view.
the mover of Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Now, Mr Chairman, Sir, this amendment talks of a truly integrated national system.

We can show him whether or not his policy will work.

We can show him whether or not his policy is wrong, but we cannot call him names, just because he argues from what we consider a racialist stand point, and we cannot therefore call him a racialist, because this is essentially a racial problem.

You cannot deny it.

If I say I support Chinese language, you can say I am a racialist.
If I say I support the Chinese will say I am a traitor.

You cannot escape the racial overtone, but in order not to make the situation explosive, we must examine the situa tion without its emotional overtone.

the Malay language, Mr Chairman, Sir, the conversion of the secondary schools into national type schools in effect means that a lot of the Chinese language schools are learning English—they are not learning Malay, they are not becoming Malay secondary schools, and that is accepted.
In fact, the Honourable Minister of Education himself admits that out of a total of 2,800 students enrolled in our University, and out of an intake of 1,208 students entering University in 1965, there were 31 students who went in qualified in Malay, and I have no doubt that 90 per cent of them are doing Malay Studies—I do not know the figures—which would mean that 90 per cent effectively, if not 100 per cent, going in with Malay qualifica tions, would not be doing science, would not be doing medicine, but Malay language studies.
In this coun try, we need the sciences, we need mathematics and we need culture.

There is a shortage, as admitted by the Minister of Defence, of good material, who know mathematics to pilot our planes, good officer calibre pupils, but they do not come from Malay secon dary schools—they come from English secondary schools.

In 1967 when we do away with English as an official language, what will the position be of these national-type schools?
What will happen to our students in the national- type schools, not the Chinese schools, but the national-type schools?

Accor ding to our present policy of secondary national-type schools, examination shall be conducted in the official language, not of only one part, as I have suggested, but of all parts—all sections.

What will happen to them in 1967 and onwards?

According to this present policy, which my Honourable friend has been speaking about, all of them should be learning Malay.
Now, let us admit it frankly: my education is in English; my friend's education is in English; many of our Ministers send their children to English schools; many of our people in the Ministries—the Secretaries in the Ministries—send their children to English schools; my friend just now, the Member for Kota Star Selatan himself, is English educated.

National-type schools, under the present policy would mean automatically no more English.

Do you think we can succeed without English as a second language?
By 1967 the conversion fullness.

Everyone, into comes according to Tuan Syed Nasir from the Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka, should learn Malay.

I do not know where he sends his children to.

I am sure he sends them to English schools, too, but he says that they shall learn Malay and only Malay.

Is that right?

That is the purpose of my friend's amendment, as the whole policy of conversion to national type school with its present policy of examination in the official language in 1967 will be changed.
Surely a bi-lingual structure is good, and if a bi-lingual structure is good, why cannot you let the people learn Chinese—that is what he was saying— and why cannot we move the first section so that we teach all schools the same standard in Malay?

I think I the position very clear.

have made Therefore, Mr Chairman, Sir, I support this a matter of principle.
amendment its as Enche' Ong Kee Hui (Sarawak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise also to support the motion moved by the Honourable 4553 2 DECEMBER 1965 4554 I wish Member for Tanjong.

I do so, Sir, not because to get myself involved in the language controversy, which does not at the moment concern us in Sarawak, but I do so because the Honourable Member for Tanjong has explained in moving his motion that he did so in order to express dissatisfaction with the present policy and the present system of education.
As I know, Sir, the present system of education in so far as it concerns Sarawak has given rise to considerable doubts, consider able dissatisfaction.

I feel that I will be failing in my duty, if I do not draw the Honourable the Minister and this House to the situation that now prevails in Sarawak.
This dissatisfaction, Sir, stems largely from the unequal treatment given to our school children up to now under Grants to Schools, and also from the urgent attention which we feel the Minister ought to give to various aspects of the education problem so far as it concerns the State of Sarawak.
attention of At the Budget session last year, Sir, I made representations on the fact that the whereas Malaysian children in free States of Malaya are enjoying primary education—and this facility is moreover to be extended for a further three years of post-primary education system— the comprehensive under that for in Sarawak, and children matter also in Sabah, were not even given free primary education.
I repeated this on several subsequent sessions of the House, but each time the Honour that Sarawak able Minister retorted children will be given the same facili ties and treatment, if we accept the national system of education.
The Honourable the Minister, however, did not tell us what adjustments need be made in the Sarawak system to fall into the national system, particularly in view of the fact that special safeguards had been given to Sarawak under the Inter-Governmental Agreement, and it was very difficult for us,-Sir, to reconcile these remarks with what is contained in that Agree ment.
We, therefore, have to assume that we can have free primary educa these special tion, into conditions for Sarawak's entry if we give up line with Malaysia and Sarawak children were therefore treated, because we had not complied with the national system on a different and less favourable basis up to now—two years after Malaysia.
Sir, I have also said, on a previous occasion that, perhaps, the Honour able the Minister of Education may realise the justness of our claims for equal treatment in education, and we were hoping that free primary educa tion might be delivered to Sarawak as an Easter egg in April or, as a gesture of goodwill, on Gawai Tahun in June this year.
It finally came, Sir, in fact for 1966, as a post-dated cheque delivered by the Honourable Minister of Education himself at the Kuching Airport, when he was passing through quite recently.
Although the discontent will now be mollified by the fact that in Head 20, Sub-head 10, of the Ministry of Education's estimates for 1966, an is shown under Grants to Schools of $3.2 million, there still remain areas of dissatisfaction, and I rise to draw the Minister's attention in this debate to these areas of dissatis faction.
increase Sir, in doing so, I must say that we appreciate the gesture which has been made by the Minister in increasing these grants to schools and we, in Sarawak, accept it in the spirit that it is better late than never.

However, it should be noted that what is to be given, if I am not mistaken, is not full free primary education but exemption from payment of school fees.

Parents will still have to meet the cost of books and other expenses for their children in schools.
We say this, Sir, not because we do not appreciate the substantial additional expenditure involved, but because we are really concerned over the hardships experienced by many of our people, particularly those who live in the rural areas, over the cost of them of sending their children to schools.

Quite apart from the financial aspect, we are also very concerned over the aim and result of our present educa tional system.
As I see it, Sir, the aim as far as Sarawak is concerned, is primary education for six years for every child and secondary education up to Form III for about 30 per cent 4555 2 DECEMBER 1965 4556 less of primary school leavers, and from that stage upwards even than that proportion are able to carry on up to Form IV.

The operation of this system means, Sir, that 70 per cent of those who go to primary schools have to leave school at the age of 12 to 13 years.
Enche' Mohamed Yusof bin Mahmud (Temerloh): On a point of order, 36.

Ini saya rasa tidak ada kena-mengena dengan motion ini.

Mr Chairman: Saya tengah memikir- kan macham mana ini ada kena- mengena dengan pindaan ini.

You have to touch on the amendment which you have not last five minutes.

touched for the Enche' Ong Kee Hui: Yes, Sir, because the mover, in proposing the amendment, did say that the purpose of the amendment is to spotlight dis satisfaction with the system of educa tion at present.
Mr Chairman: Secondary schools— not primary schools.

Enche' Ong Kee Hui: Secondary schools—I am coming to that now.

Mr Chairman: You have introduced all sorts of subjects into it.

to come Enche' Ong Kee Hui: Sir, I was that.


As far as to going secondary education is concerned, only 30 per cent of the primary school- leavers in Sarawak are able to continue and these have given rise to a good deal of dissatisfaction, in that parents are very worried as to what happens to this 70 per cent of the school-leavers, who have to leave the school at the age of 12 to 13 and are unable to find work because they are not employable at the that age.
Furthermore, Sir, curriculum in secondary schools, parti cularly those in aided schools, are now given a fixed curriculum.

But textbooks are not being given to them and this of course, has also given rise to a good deal of concern and dissatisfaction.

Furthermore, Sir, the orientation of secondary schools in Sarawak does not seem to fit in with the nature of the is economy of our country and generally felt that the Minister ought it those pupils who to look into this and do something about it.
But the main cause for dis satisfaction, Sir, is the fact, as I have mentioned earlier on, that the primary system does not seem to lead to any leave thing and schools do not seem to be able to fit themselves with the existing economy of the country.
For that reason, Sir, and in view of the fact that we are concerned now with a good deal of development, and quite a good deal of skilled technicians are required, our secondary school system does not seem to fill the need and I would therefore, urge the Minister to give very serious consideration to the necessity for more trade schools and, perhaps, to seriously consider, at the Borneo States could not be served by a university.
this stage, whether Enche' Abdul (Razak bin Haji Hussin (Lipis): Tuan Pengerusi, Yang Berhor- mat tidak menyentoh uchapan atau dasar pindaan ini.

Dia berchakap lain ini.

Saya mohon daripada pindaan menarek perhatian kapada Standing Order 36 (1).

Mr Chairman: Saya tahu, saya tahu.

Enche' Ong Kee Hui: Mr Chairman, Sir, I have finished in fact what I have to say.

It is for that reason, Sir.


there is all this dissatisfaction over the present educational system which has given rise to a good deal of discontent and for that reason, Sir, I rise to support the motion moved by the Honourable Member for Tanjong.

Dato' Dr Haji Megat Khas (Kuala Kangsar): Tuan Pengerusi, saya minta izin sadikit sahaja hendak berchakap di-dalam perkara ini.
Mr Chairman: Masa kita ini tengah di-dalam atoran Dato' Dr Megat Khas: Untok pin daan yang di-bawa oleh Yang Ber- hormat Ahli dari Tanjong.

Mr Chairman: Baik-lah; .

kalau bagitu, berapa lama hendak berchakap?

Dato' Dr Haji Megat Khas: Tiga minit, barangkali.

Mr Chairman: Tiga minit.

4557 2 DECEMBER 1965 4558 Dato' Dr Haji Megat Khas: May I speak in English, Sir, because I think my Honourable friend across the floor probably understands what I have to say much better in the English language.
amendment in has brought that has been The brought into sharp focus, as far as I can see, four points: (i) the point of the official language in 1967; (ii) the examination of school in the Bahasa Kebangsaan; subjects (iii) the teaching of various languages in the schools; and (iv) the question of racialism.
I think I must say here that the question of the bahasa kebangsaan being the official language in 1967 is a constitutional matter, and it has been accepted by all layers of society in Malaysia today, and has been for some years, and I think it is unfair to re open that question in this House.

The second question is the examina tions in various subjects in schools in the bahasa kebangsaan.
The Member for Tanjong has said that it is illogical to carry on the examinations in the Malay language, of subjects taught in other languages.

But since the bahasa kebangsaan has been taught now for some years with the object of making the school children bilingual in the true sense of the word, we have to be able to test and make our assessment of the ability to answer the questions set in the examinations in the bahasa kebangsaan when time comes.
Whether we shall be able to achieve it, or not, is certainly a moot point, and we should be prepared to be flexible in the matter of its implementation.

But, unless we make an attempt to get it going, we shall certainly not get going at all, and although the advice here is that we have got to make haste slowly, still we must have a deadline when we should be able to implement some of our objectives in this way.
the Then, the Member for Dato Kramat has said that since people of various racial origins have been asked to learn the national language, why not some of the Malays go to Chinese schools and in learn Chinese and be proficient Chinese.

Here, I like to say that many the question of Malays are in Chinese schools and even up to university level today.
We are appreciating the Chinese language as much as the Chinese themselves are doing, as a language, as a subject matter, and I am sure that the Alliance Government has made it very clear that teaching of languages has never been barred.

You can learn any language that you like— your Chinese, your Tamil, your English, your Malay, but with the object—and of course, that has been provided by the Malay the Constitution—that language will become official the language in 1967.
There is no harm in using any language that you like in your homes and anywhere else, but the official language will have to be Malay.

That is all, Mr Chairman, Sir.
against strong, perhaps, The Minister of Education (Enche' Mohamed Khir Johari): Mr Chairman, Sir, I have to oppose this motion by the Honourable Member for Tanjong to reduce Sub-head 8, Head S. 19 by $10 but I would like to make it clear though that, although during the course of the debate some members from the Alliance Bench did say something hard and the Honourable Member, it is not because that they want to oppose or as has been said by the Honourable Member from Dato Kramat, that they do not respect the right of the Honourable Members of the Opposition to bring up any motion before the House.
Only one thing I would like to make clear—I hope that the Honourable Members of the Opposition will not expect the Government Bench or the Members of the Government Bench to pass their motion for them.

I have to oppose this motion, because Sub-head 8, Head S. 19 is actually to enable intended to provide funds private secondary schools, including Chinese secondary schools, to conform to Government's education policy and thereby enjoy the full benefits of full assistance from the Government.
There are a very small number of Chinese secondary schools which have yet to conform to this policy.

I think it is only a matter of time when they will 4559 2 DECEMBER 1965 4560 to realise that it is to the benefit of their schools and of Chinese education as a whole the that they conform policy.
As a matter of fact, at this moment I have one application still being actively considered by the Minis try from a Chinese secondary school in Kedah for conforming to the policy, and if this motion is agreed to, it will mean that I will have to deny this privilege to a Chinese school which has taken a bit of time to consider and to accept the policy.

It is perhaps they have come to realise things and have now decided to come in.

As I have said, in all cases, they have come in with their eyes open.
As I see it during the years, even though I left the Edu cation Ministry for some time, I have been in touch with Chinese school authorities they have come to under stand fully why it is necessary for them to conform to the policy and how much they have gained from the point of view of educational standards, from the point of view of finance and others that is to say, they have got so much benefit from the Alliance educational policy.

Of course, we cannot make everybody happy.


The essence of the present educational policy is that it is based on give and take.

It is geared to the special conditions prevailing in our country.

Now, the Honourable Member for Tanjong has touched, if I am not mis taken, on four issues.

One is on the question of the medium of examination teaching.

For his and medium of information, and for the information of this House too, that is the essence, in fact, of the present policy.
The medium of examination is actually the medium of teaching in the schools.

In the primary schools, the medium of teaching may be Chinese, may be language, or may be the national the English or may be Tamil, but examinations those schools are in the medium of teaching.

When we get to the secondary level, the mediums of examination also conform to the medium of teaching.
The main medium of language of teaching in the secondary schools is languages, either one of language or i.e., either the national the official conducted in is to examination for English.

So, if you go to a national- type secondary English school, you will take the examination in English.

If you go to a national secondary school, you will take the examination in the National language.

I thought that is a very fair compromise.


And in addi tion to this, even though you take the examination in the national language or in the English language, you are able take your own particular language as a subject and the medium that particular in of in Chinese example, subject, language and the in literature, medium of teaching.

So, I thought there is no case for argument and much less for any further examination or review of the present policy.
Now, as one who has been going round the country so much during these few months, meeting the parents, Chinese parents, from all types of schools I know exactly what the people want, and I know that we have not deviated from the principles that we have accepted in this House.

I know that the Honour able Member for Tanjong probably has less opportunity to meet the people in Trengganu, for example, where there is no branch of U.D.P.

and in Kelan- tan, for example.


But I go to all these places and I take the trouble to find out from them what their worries are over educational matters and I try to the best of my ability to work out to bring any compromise satisfaction and happiness; to everyone.

in order The Honourable Member for Tanjong also touched on the question of employ ment opportunities.
I ask you, Sir, when the Chinese secondary schools existed in those days, what were the employ ment opportunities that existed for them in those days?

If they graduated from the Chinese-medium schools where the medium of in Chinese, what could they do?

Other than being shopkeepers, what could they do?

Employment opportunities were limited for them in those days, but now through the educational policy that we have, employment opportunities for them are open as much to them as to anybody else.
Not only employ ment opportunities but also more opportunities for them to go abroad to teaching was 100% 4561 2 DECEMBER 1965 4562 become doctors, like the Honourable Member for Tanjong, to become engi neers, to become scientists and so on.

That to my mind is the essence of the present policy.

So, what is wrong with that?

Do you want our Chinese young men and women merely to become shopkeepers?
I say, I shall be guilty if I call myself a Malaysian; I say I shall be guilty if I carry out any policy that will limits the opportunities of our Chinese young men and women of today and of tomorrow.

Now, the Honourable Member also talks about employment opportunities for the young in the context of the present development in our country.
I say it is for this reason that we must give more emphasis not merely on academic education as in the past, but more on vocational and on technical education and on the study of science, and that is exactly what we are doing today.

to Sir, I have just come back from a meeting of Asian Ministers of Educa tion and during the 10 days that we were there we compared notes.
We tried the other find out what countries are doing in regard to edu cation, and I must say that our country has been placed amongst the most progressive group in Asia in regard to education (applause).

I am not trying to boast.

There is nothing to boast.

But I feel that the more we study, the more we find out and I feel that we are along the right path.

What we need today is not chauvinistic talk but good will and a real sense of responsibility to our young men and women of the country.
the question of Sir, the Honourable Member also family touched on planning.

Well, I would say that by adopting family planning as part of our national policy we are not in any way adopting a defeatist attitude but rather we are adopting what I might call a practical attitude to life.

Now, at the last conference in that Bangkok, it was pointed out that this matter of rapid birth-rate in the Asian countries has become a real major problem amongst us.
How are we going to meet this problem unless we volun I attended tarily do something about it?

I am sure that for the Honourable Member Tanjong himself must be practising some sort of family planning—I am sure of that.

How he does it, well that is not a matter for us to find out.

(Laughter) However, I would say, let us look at the example of Japan— Japan's birth-rate in those days was more or less like ours now—3 per cent to 3.2 per cent—but now it has gone down to 0.9 per cent.

Why?
Why?

Because the level of education has gone up, and because of that the standard of living of the people has gone up and shoulder-to- they shoulder with Western countries.

We are proud of them.

But, there is some thing that we can learn from them, and if we can learn from them we can practise them slowly—not compulsorily but slowly—and I think, it will bring some good for us and for the future generations of this country.
can now stand Sir, the Honourable Member for Tanjong has not brought to light any new points, and for that reason I am not able to support him, but should he at any other time find some new points—not those points that have been repeated over and over again not only by him but also by the previous Member of U.D.P.
here, the Honour able Mr Too Joon Hing who over the years had been repeating all these things, I would be the first one to consider those points, because I feel that education is a sacred matter—it is not a matter that should be a subject for party politics.

It is a sacred thing because it concerns the very life of the nation, the very future of our coun try.

So, it should not be played about like a ball.

Therefore, the less politics in education the better it will be.
I, myself, in the appointment of members to the various boards and other things— in most matters, in all matters in edu cation—I have tried to avoid looking at it merely from the political angle.

I feel that if I got to do something that I am convinced is for the good of the country, I will do it, because, as I said, education is a sacred subject.
Another Honourable Member sug gested that we should form an ALL- the PARTY Committee review to 4563 2 DECEMBER 1965 4564 to than it—there it is not in regard is nothing their authority the burgher wait education policy.

I say, Sir, that the Labour Party now in power in the United Kingdom has only a majority of one.
In spite of that, in spite of the fact that the Opposition there try to duel with them, they have never yet surrendered the Opposition—and we here have got more two-thirds majority, Sir (Laughter).

So, be that as it may, even though we have got such a handsome majority, it does not make any diffe rence to us.

If we find that the Opposi tion has got something worthwhile, something good, for the country, we to will accept worry, but if it is no good, it is also our duty to throw it into the L.B.W.

tray".
tray".

tray—"Let (Laughter) I say that the intention of the Alliance Government to surrender its responsibility to the Opposition.

We have been put into power, voted into power, by the people in regard with a clear mandate to to all matters education, connected with our country, and we would be unfair to them if we were to concede this responsibility to the Opposition.
So, Sir, I do not propose to the to Honourable Member from Sarawak, because the Honourable Member from Sarawak very well knows as much as I do, that I have no full responsibility as regards education in Sarawak.
How ever, full responsibility, I can promise him, here and now, that I will do as what we have done here; we will try to give our children in Sarawak what we have here, because they are not only child ren of Sarawak, but also they are children of Malaysia: and the moment they accept, they become a member of our family in regard to education.

I say, all the facilities that we have given to our children here will auto matically be given to them.

But in this world you cannot have the cake and eat it.
Therefore, I do hope that the Honourable Member from Sarawak will use all his influence, so that we will try to come as near together as possible for the common good of us the common good of and also for Malaysia as a whole.

Thank you, Sir.

(Applause).

reply much more, even the moment I have got Amendment put, and negatived.
Mr Chairman: The debate will now go on to the original question, that is, on Heads S. 18, S. 19 and S. 20. ini semua Enche' Abdul Samad bin Gul Ahmad Mianji: Tuan Pengerusi, saya meng- ambil bahagian sadikit sahaja dalam masaalah pelajaran ini, ia-itu dalam masaalah pelajaran bagi anak2 kita, khas-nya anak2 Melayu.

Saya perchaya dan sedar Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran ini tahu dan berikhtiar bagi meninggikan taraf anak2 Melayu dalam pelajaran ini.
Ta' payah-lah kita cherita- kan dalam Dewan ini, bagaimana lemah dan mundor-nya anak2 kita dalam sekolah2, kerana terang2 telah di-ketahui' oleh orang2 dan oleh kita semua.

Tuan Pengerusi, dalam masaalah anak2 Melayu dalam pela jaran ini, sudah banyak kita cherita dalam Dewan ini sudah banyak orang lain cheritakan Yang Berhormat Men teri Pelajaran sendiri pun tahu.
Saya bahasa supaya masaalah meminta Melayu, atau pun anak2 Melayu yang sedang belajar, hendak-lah Kemen- terian ini memberi keutamaan, saya perchaya keutamaan itu memang ada, tetapi saya minta biar-lah keutamaan ini di-beri lebeh saperti anak2 Melayu dalam lapangan pelajaran rendah dan pelajaran tinggi di-luar negeri.

tidak Tuan Pengerusi, dalam masaalah yang kedua, ia-itu Pechahan-kepala 18, Bulan Bahasa Kebangsaan.
Pada tahun 1965 belanja sa-banyak $88,700 dan pada tahun ini—tahun 1966 $75,700, tahu kurang-nya belanja Saya ini, oleh kerana di-desak oleh sa-suatu pehak, atau pun oleh kerana apa2 sebab Yang Berhormat Menteri itu sendiri yang tahu.

Tetapi saya mengatakan masaalah bahasa kebangsaan, ini Tuan Pengerusi, ia-lah satu masaalah yang penting.

Masaalah yang hari2 kebela- kangan ini banyak benar di-suarakan oleh pehak2 yang tertentu.
Ada pehak kita menyokong, yang di-hadapan tetapi di-belakang kita mereka menen- tang bahasa kebangsaan ini supaya di-jadikan Bahasa Melayu, di-jadikan bahasa kebangsaan menjelang-nya tahun 1967.

Tuan Pengerusi, kalau daripada parti2 Pembangkang ini, mithal-nya, U.D.P.

4565 2 DECEMBER 1965 4566 atau pun Bebas atau pun S.U.P.P., Front Socialist, atau pun P.P.R.

yang menuntut masaalah bahasa2 mereka ini di-jadikan bahasa rasmi, tidak-lah saya gadoh sangat, kerana memang mereka ini orang Pembangkang.
Tetapi masa alah yang saya hendak membangkit- ia-lah masaalah parti2 kan di-sini dalam Kerajaan sendiri, saperti, M.C.A.

dan M.I.C.

Kita tahu bagaimana krisis yang berlaku dalam pertubohan M.C.A.

sa-hingga Ketua Pemuda Agong-nya pernah meletakkan jawatan dan mene- rima balek jawatan itu dengan sebab tuntutan2 pehak M.C.A.

supaya bahasa China juga di-jadikan bahasa rasmi dalam Tanah Melayu ini.

daripada Dan tiga hari yang lepas, pada hari Ahad dalam Konggeres M.I.C.
di- seluroh Malaysia yang di-adakan di- Kuala Lumpur ini, keputusan yang pertama yang di-buat-nya ia-lah menyo- kong bahasa kebangsaan di-jadikan bahasa rasmi, bahasa Melayu di-jadi kan bahasa kebangsaan yang rasmi dan keputusan yang kedua ia-lah menuntut supaya bahasa Tamil di-aku'i sa-bagai bahasa yang sama taraf-nya dengan bahasa kebangsaan.

Bahagian kedua, supaya Kerajaan memberi meminta pengakuan kapada bahasa Tamil.
Yang ke-empat bahasa Tamil hendak-lah di- jalankan pepereksaan dalam semua jabatan2 Kerajaan.

Ini-lah dua parti politik yang terang2 telah menunjok- kan sifat munatik-nya dalam masaalah kebangsaan ini.

tahun hadapan Tuan Pengerusi, tidak usah-lah kita cheritakan bagaimana kejayaan2 dalam lapangan lain yang sudah mereka per- olehi.

Satu daripada-nya ia-lah menje- lang-nya ini bahasa China dan bahasa Tamil akan di-ajar dalam semua sekolah2 yang murid-nya ada sa-ramai 15 orang daripada mereka itu.
Ini masaalah, bagi PAS, walau pun tuan2 mengatakan ini perkauman, apa yang di-uchapkan oleh PAS ini per tidak kauman, tetapi kami perchaya ada sa-buah negara pun dalam dunia ini yang mengamalkan dasar pelajaran saperti Malaysia ini, menghidupkan satu bangsa, satu bahasa, dengan mem beri galakan kapada bahasa2 lain mengembangkan pengaroh-nya.

Tuan Pengerusi, kita tahu bangsa2 lain dalam lapangan lain, dalam ekonomi, mereka sudah 100%—ini tidak dapat di-nafi- kan oleh sa-siapa pun.
Dalam lapangan politik, mereka sudah sama dengan kita.

Dalam lapangan2 lain semua-nya lebeh daripada kita.

Yang mereka tinggal kapada orang Melayu ia-lah bahasa kebangsaan ini satu.

Ini-lah kalau mahu di-katakan kedaulatan- nya maseh ada kapada orang Melayu yang ini-lah satu dan kalau ini pun mahu di-sentoh, saya tidak tahu apa jenerasi2 yang akan berlaku kapada kita yang akan datang.

supaya lapangan, pengikut2-nya Tuan Pengerusi, Yang di-Pertua M.C.A.
yang berbetulan dudok dalam Kabinet Kerajaan Malaysia ini sa-bagai Menteri Kewangan, sa-patut-nya mem beri nasihat kapada orang2-nya atau jangan pun menuntut benda2 yang terlampau me- naikkan perasaan orang Melayu ini yang memang sudah termundor dalam segala jangan menaikkan perasaan orang Melayu, orang Melayu sudah miskin, sudah tidak ada pela jaran, sudah kurang dan lagi orang yang miskin dan bagi orang yang tidak ada pelajaran ini, dia tidak takut mati, kerana dia tidak sayang hidup atas dunia ini, kerana tidak ada satu benda yang hendak di-pertahankan dia lebeh baik mati.
Sa-patut-nya memberi nasihat kapada pengikut2 M.C.A.

ini supaya jangan buat macham itu, jangan tuntut yang sudah dapat daripada sede- kah orang UMNO sudah chukup, jangan minta yang lebeh.

Itu sa-patut-nya kapada pengikut2, tetapi bukan.

Yang Berhor- mat atau pun Yang Berhormat Yang di-Pertua M.C.A.

memberi jaminan kapada pengikut2 M.C.A., kalau perlu masaalah bahasa kebangsaan ini akan di-bawa ka-dalam Kabinet.
di-nasihatkan itu pun Jadi, di-hadapan kita orang UMNO atau pun di-hadapan ra'ayat biasa ini, mereka mengatakan kita sokong bahasa Melayu sa-bagai bahasa kebangsaan, tetapi dari pintu belakang masaalah bahasa China dan bahasa Tamil ini di-bawa masok sa-hingga ka-dalam Kabinet.

Tuan Pengerusi, bahasa Tamil bukan sahaja di-Tanah Melayu ini, di-India pun tidak mendapat tempat.
Di-negeri 4567 2 DECEMBER 1965 4568 tempat, tumpah darah bahasa Tamil ini pun tidak mendapat tetapi di- Malaysia ini, hendak di-jadikan bahasa rasmi.

Ini-lah satu benda yang patut Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran ini mengikhtiarkan supaya jangan ada lagi tuntutan2 dari pehak Parti Perikatan sendiri.

sudah di-chap Tuan Pengerusi, Yang Amat Ber hormat Perdana Menteri pernah menga- takan orang2 yang berjuang yang hendak mendaulatkan bahasa kebang- saan itu ia-lah puak2 pelampau.
Ini ada-lah satu uchapan, satu tudohan yang tidak patut di-keluarkan oleh Perdana Menteri kita terhadap pejuang2 bahasa kebangsaan ini.
Dan kalau di- antara kita ini ada pejuang2 kebang sa-bagai saan yang puak2 pelampau, berma'ana-lah ini memberi tali dan memberi senjata yang tajam kapada pehak2 yang paling memang peluang sentiasa menanti untok menentang bahasa Melayu sa- bagai Tuan Pengerusi, bagi saya, saya mengatakan kalau betul pehak2 yang menuntut bahasa mereka di-jadikan bahasa rasmi ini ta'at setia kapada Tanah Melayu ini, atau pun kapada Malaysia ini, tidak akan menuntut benda mereka yang lebeh2, saperti bahasa kebang saan yang hanya ini-lah tinggal kapada orang2 Melayu.
kebangsaan.

bahasa sendiri Yang Amat Berhormat Perdana Menteri dan Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran telah memberi jawapan bahawa kita tidak akan meng- gunakan kekerasan dalam masaalah bahasa kebangsaan ini.

Ya, saya ber- setuju, tidak ada guna-nya kita meng- gunakan kekerasan dan kalau kekerasan di-gunakan, maka kita pun tidak ber- jaya dan dia orang pun tidak berjaya, akhir-nya musnah.
Tetapi tidak boleh- kah sa-bagai parti yang terbesar dalam Perikatan ini, ia-itu UMNO mithal-nya, dalam meshuarat2 Parti Perikatan ini memberi tahu kapada kawan2-nya dari- pada M.C.A.

dan M.I.C.

ini supaya jangan masaalah bahasa ini di-timbul- kan, sudah chukup-lah apa yang kamu dapat dan masaalah bahasa ini biar- lah bahasa Melayu itu tetap menjadi bahasa kebangsaan.
Saya pernah meng- usulkan dalam Dewan Ra'ayat ini pada ka- Budget yang dahulu—bantuan jangan beri sekolah2 China dan Tamil hendak-lah di-berhentikan, langsong bantuan2, dan pernah Yang Berhormat daripada Pulau Pinang memberi tahu dalam Dewan ini supaya Kerajaan mesti membuat sa-suatu supaya PAS ini jangan menjadi Parti yang meme- rentah—memang-lah dia orang itu takut, kalau PAS memerentah, dan memang kalau PAS memerentah, kita tidak beri peluang bahasa China di- jadikan bahasa sekolah2 kalau orang hendak tumpang dudok, dan kami terima dan orang ini dudok dengan sharat ta'at kapada apa yang terkan- dong dalam Perlembagaan, dan dalam Perlembagaan mengatakan bahasa Melayu mesti menjadi bahasa kebang saan.
Kalau tidak mengikut itu berma'ana- nya sudah melanggar Perlembagaan, tidak ada beza-nya Sukarno menyanyi lagu Negara Ku dengan berupa rentak asal-nya lagu Terang Bulan, dengan apa yang di-lakukan oleh orang M.C.A.

dan M.I.C.

melanggar Perlem bagaan dengan menuntut bahasa lain menjadikan ada beza-nya, Tuan Pengerusi.

rasmi—ta' bahasa ia-itu Tuan Pengerusi, Yang Berhormat Menteri Pelajaran kita pernah ber- uchap bahawa Kerajaan akan bersikap liberal dalam masaalah bahasa ini.
Kita sudah nampak bagaimana 'azab- nya orang Melayu di-dalam masaalah ekonomi liberal, bagaimana seksa-nya orang Melayu dalam masaalah ekonomi ini, bagitu-lah juga akan terseksa-nya orang Melayu dalam masaalah bahasa ini, dan saya perchaya kebangsaan bagaimana mereka berjaya sudah dalam lapangan2 politik dan ekonomi, mereka akan berjaya dalam lapangan pelajaran ini, kalau tidak dari sekarang, tidak kita munasabah ini.

Tuan Pengerusi, dalam masaalah bahasa ini, kita sudah bagi tahu tolak ansor.
Kalau Tunku, kalau Perdana Menteri Malay sia ini, mahu bertolak ansor, Perdana Menteri itu wajib kita gulingkan.

Dalam masaalah bahasa kebangsaan ini, tidak ada bermanis muka dan tidak ada tolak ansor.

Kalau ini pun mahu di-tolak ansor, maka saya per chaya, chita2 mahu mewujudkan satu ini tidak bangsa baharu di-Malaysia tuntutan2 yang tidak ada rentikan 4569 2 DECEMBER 1965 4570 akan berjaya, chita2 "to build a new nation" akan menemul kehanchoran, sa-belum dia-nya sempat di-dirikan.
Chita2 ini akan menjadi impian dan khayalan yang akan tinggal dalam sejarah.
Orang2 PAS sa-ramai 350,000 orang pengundi2 PAS baharu2 ini akan bersatu dengan orang2 UMNO—dalam masaalah bahasa kebangsaan ini, kami sanggup melupakan PAS kami dan saya perchaya orang2 UMNO pun sanggup melupakan UMNO-nya demi bahasa mempertahankan masaalah kedua2 kebangsaan ini, dan bila gulongan ini bersatu—tidak ada kuasa di-bawah langit ini yang dapat mem- berhentikan sa-suatu daripada timbul, daripada apa yang di-timbulkan oleh dua gulongan yang bersatu ini.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya harap Kera- jaan Perikatan dan khas-nya Yang Berhormat Menteri ini sendiri supaya betul2 tegas dalam masaalah bahasa kebangsaan ini, kalau mahu melihat Malaysia ini aman, ma'amor dan damai sa-bagaimana yang di-janjikan kapada ra'ayat, kalau tidak Malaysia pasti akan hanchor.
(57) items Enche' Amadeus Mathew Leong (Sabah): Mr Chairman, Sir, in giving my support to the Estimates, I wish to touch on item (53) under Supply Head S. 20, on page 220, concerning Grants to Aided Secondary Schools and (63) concerning to also Trade Schools.

I am aware of the increase in the allocation, Mr Chair man, Sir, but I consider that the sum increased.
Being should in aware of respect of education in Sabah, I feel that much more has to be expanded if the plight and problems of the people are to be attended the children will not put all the blame on us in future.
the progress achieved to, so that further be successfully Mr Chairman, Sir, each year a con siderably increased number of children, after having completed their primary education, seek admission into higher schools with the intention of the problem of not being able to accom modate them all always arises.
Some with high intelligence, besides those of wealthy parents, could possibly obtain their studies but furthering places locally or elsewhere, but quite a number who actually have the scope for higher learning have to be over looked and ignored.

What are we going to do with these under-age offsprings?

Ignore them and let them be whatever they may turn out to be?

We must admit that we cannot afford to see more juvenile delinquents and gangsters in the beloved country of ours.
More over, the it would be contrary expectations of the parents concerned and of the Government as well, who look forward to see that our children will grow up to be next years sole citizens; of this country.

to Therefore, Mr Chairman, Sir, although the Honourable Minister concerned might already have in mind some solution to overcome this defect and shortcoming, I consider that this matter especially requires immediate consideration and attention.
If I may suggest, Mr Chairman, Sir, more grants should be made available for Aided Secondary Schools and the provision of another Trade School or another form of school of comprehensive system in Sabah should be seriously considered the present existing in addition that Trade School improvements to meet the demand of the more unfortunate ones could be seen, or else it will not only be a blot on the leaders of Sabah but also on the Federal Government in parti cular.
in Jesselton, so to Mr Chairman, Sir, touching on Sub head 47 on page 220, I also like to draw the attention of the Honourable Minister concerned that inspite of the facilities and privileges enjoyed by children in most parts of Malaysia, such as the provisions of free primary education, free textbooks, etc., there are many in certain parts of Sabah who were born in remote areas and who do not even know what schooling is.
I have this House early this year informed that parents, who were anxious to have their children at schools were unable to do so due to difficult access to and being far away from any existing school.

They have even ventured to put up school houses in their respective kampongs on basis of gotong royong in the hope that the Government will 4571 2 DECEMBER 1965 4572 them with a provide teacher after having done so.
But to their utter dis appointment later, they were told by the Education Officer that the Department concerned could not meet their request as it is a Federal matter and required approval before any definite answer could be given, inspite of the strong recommendation usually submitted by the Local Education Committee con cerned, who sometimes feel that their comments and recommendations are uncalled for and disregarded.
Could then the Honourable Minister regard this case as deserving and worthy of favourable consideration?

After all, these unfortunate people deserve to be given their share of the development and progress of Malaysia and what they want now is only a teacher for their children.

Mr Chairman, Sir, touching on item 54, on the same page 220, I wish also to express my dissatisfaction over this sum inspite of the increase provided.
Permit me to say, Sir, that it is only natural that, due to growing progress and the prosperity of the country and the well-being of its people that an increasing demand of school places in Sabah, by the coming into school-age children especially, should follow.
It is, therefore, regrettable to say that in the Annual Estimates the provision drafted for the existing schools for the purpose of meeting this demand is far from being in line with the recom mended estimates given by the Local Education Committee concerned.

Mr Chairman, Sir, on behalf of our future generation, I appeal to the Minister concerned to take steps to look into this matter so as to recommend a review of the present policy.
Mr Chairman, Sir, touching on Sub head 3, under O.C.A.R., concerning adult education for Sarawak, I wish to take this opportunity to express my opinion in connection with this item and, that is, adult education in Sabah should also be under the portfolio of the Minister concerned as it has been carried out in Sarawak.
The reasons for my suggestion are: (i) it concerns education much more than any other subjects; (ii) the Education Department has the necessary and available staff to exploit this provision; (iii) unnecessary equipment and unne cessary engagement of officials, inexperienced Super such visors and the provision of build ings in some areas could be avoided; as non-essential (iv) as a result of this, eradication expenditure, of opportunity could be extended to people of other remote areas; and the Local Education Committee concerned will automatically come in.
(v) the co-operation of Mr Chairman, Sir, with a view of promoting the well-being of the people and the future interests of the country these as a whole, I have expressed views of mine and the Honourable Ministers concerned will take this matter up for consideration.

Thank you, Sir.

trust that Enche' Tajudin bin Ali (Larut Utara): (rises).

Mr Chairman: Berapa lama agak-nya Yang Berhormat hendak berchakap, kalau pendek saya boleh benarkan, jangan panjangkan sangat!
peluang menguchapkan Enche' Tajudin bin Ali: Terima kaseh, Dato' Pengerusi.

Saya wakil daripada kawasan Larut Utara meng- ambil sa- tinggi2 tahniah kapada Menteri Pela- jaran di-atas progress dan kejayaan beliau menjalankan dasar pelajaran, khas-nya dalam kawasan saya dan 'am-nya dalam Malaysia kita ini.

Di-samping itu, Dato' Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap di-dalam Head S. 18 muka Pepereksaan, Butiran (238) sampai (262) berjumlah $451,052.
185—Lembaga Dato' Pengerusi, sa-belum perang jarang2 kita dengar kertas dahulu, sangat, pepereksaan bochor—jarang terutama sa-kali macham kertas pepe reksaan School Certificate.

Tetapi sa- lepas kita mendapat kemerdekaan ini, selalu sangat kita dengar, ia-itu kertas tidak baik.

pepereksaan bochor.
pepereksaan bochor.

Ini Jadi, saya harap dan minta-lah kapada Menteri yang berkenaan itu, sunggoh 4573 2 DECEMBER 1965 4574 ia-itu baharu2 tahu satu bangunan yang pun saya lengkap dan di-jagai dengan rapi di- Kuala Lumpur kita ini, tetapi kadang2 kita ada dengar, ini saperti di-Johor; betul tidak betul, saya harap Menteri kalau tidak betul per- chakapan saya ini, saya harap Menteri akan betulkan, ia-itu di-Johor ada bunyi-nya kertas pepereksaan L.C.E.

bochor.
bochor.

Jadi, di-atas perkara ini, Dato' Pengerusi, saya harap sangat-lah kertas pepereksaan ini di-jagai' sunggoh2 dan jangan ada kebochoran langsong.

Pepereksaan School Certificate ini, Dato' Pengerusi, saya sudah puas hati, kalau sa-kira-nya Federation Certificate of Education boleh di-adakan pepe reksaan di-sini, mengapa tidak School Certificate di-adakan soalan2-nya di-sini dan di-jalankan di-sini, kerana ini mengurangkan perbelanjaan kita.
Kita sudah merdeka, mengapa di-harapkan England lagi, kalau-lah ada, kurang2 satu dua orang pegawai, kita boleh bawa daripada England—import dan jangan-lah bergantong kapada England sana, di-Cambridge.

Saya sekarang masok muka 203 Head S. 18, Dato' Pengerusi, ia-itu Fees for Part-time Lecturers.
Jadi di- sini, Dato' Pengerusi, saya tengok anak2 tertinggal sangat dalam Melayu kita jarang2 lapangan pelajaran ini dan anak2 Melayu kita hari ini dapat sampai boleh dapat certificate yang pertama atau pun dapat School Certi ficate atau pun dapat certificate dengan subject2-nya yang chukup untok mereka itu masok H.S.C.

Jadi, di-sini saya shor- kan kapada pehak Menteri supaya adakan kelas2 yang lebeh sadikit, khas- nya kapada anak kita Melayu menyiap- kan budak2 ini untok memasoki Universiti.
Berkenaan dengan muka 213, Bia- siswa, Butiran (20) dan (27) ini saya harap boleh-lah di-tambah banyak kapada anak2 kita Melayu sebab anak2 Melayu yang berjaya pun menerusi biasiswa.

Jadi kalau tidak ada biasiswa, anak Melayu kita payah-lah hendak meneruskan pelajaran mereka itu dari pada bawah sampai ka-Universiti.
Kapada Universiti pula, saya meman- dang satu perbelanjaan yang bagini lebeh, dan banyak sampai $12 juta sa-kali saya sangat kesal terutama langkah2 yang telah di-ambil oleh budak2 Melayu kita mendapat biasiswa daripada Kerajaan membuat bantahan atau anak2 ini, terutama sa-kali, ber- champor gaul dalam lapangan politik.

Ini saya tidak gemar sa-kali.


Kalau hendak champor, sa-kira-nya mereka itu dapat Scholarship kita, hantar balek champor-lah Scholarship kita dalam lapangan politik—kalau tidak, Itu-lah harapan kita, kalau jangan!

dia mahu champor dalam lapangan politik, saya perchaya harapan kita kapada mereka itu tipis untok mereka itu dapat kejayaan dalam lapangan pelajaran mereka yang kita harap2 sangat di-peringkat Universiti.
dan kapada khas-nya Muka 217, Dato' Pengerusi, yang akhir sa-kali ia-lah saya suka menarek perhatian kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri, Trade School, Ipoh.

Sekolah ini saya dapat cherita yang boleh di-perchayai, guru2- nya menekan anak2 kita Melayu.

Anak2 langsong tidak di-benarkan Melayu masok jurusan electrical.

Jadi boleh di-katakan semua-nya di-salorkan ka pada ia- itu jurusan pertukangan kayu dan sa-bagai-nya.
Saya tidak puas hati dan harap Menteri buat siasatan, bukan ini bahkan di-lain2 sahaja di-Ipoh sekolah Trade School ini supaya mem- beri peluang lebeh banyak lagi kapada anak2 Melayu kita mengambil jurusan electrical dan jurusan lain juga.

Sekian, terima kaseh.

tempat yang kurang baik, Enche' Abdul Karim bin Abu (Melaka Seladan): Dato' Pengerusi, dalam mengalu2kan Estimate Kemen- terian Pelajaran ini, saya berchakap muka 173, Menteri Mr Chairman: Masa sudah sampai, sambong esok-lah.
hendak menyatakan House resumed.

Mr Speaker: Ahli2 Yang Berhormat, saya ada-lah Committee of Supply berkenaan dengan Supply Bill, 1966, yang maseh lagi membahathkan, Head S. 18, S. 19, dan S. 20 jadi Jadual-nya.

Meshuarat pukul 9.30 esok.

di-tanggohkan Adjourned at 8.02 p.m. hingga