Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698068025465.pdf (Guyana)
1777 ]IJ, embers PresentLECJISLATIVE CouNCIL 1st Reading of Bills 1778 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL .A.NNOUi\'CEMENT Orr1cE OF CROWN SOLICITOR, Ot'FICL\L THURSDAY, 13th: MARCH, 1947.

RECEIVER AND PUBLIC TRUSTEE The Council met at 2 p.m., His Excel­ lency the Officer Administering ernment, sident, the Gov­ Pre- Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G., in the Chair.

PRESENT: The President, His Excellency the Officer Administering W.L.

Heape, C.M.G.

the Government, Mr.

The Hon.

tne Colonial J.Parkinson (acting).


Secretary, Mr. D. The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. F. W. Holder, K.C.

The Hon.

the Colonial McDavid, C.B.E.

Mr. E. F. Treasurer, The Hon.

E.G.

Woolford, O.B.E., K.C.

(New Amsterdam) The PIRESIDENT : I would just like to ·functions a Select 1 Committee com­ with the request.
say that in accordance of Members of the Legislative Council propose prising under the Chairmanship General "to consider to appoint all legal Members of the Council of the Attorney- .

and report on the and duties of the Office of Crown Solicitor, and Public Trus­ Official Receiver tee, and to advise as to whether any suit­ able changes can be made i n the present organization."

torney-General Committee is subject this Council.

Council is anxious to be appointed, wishes accordingly.
I have informed that the appointment to the approval for a Select Committee I understand and I propose of the of to meet their that the the At­ PAPERS LAID The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. Parkinson, Acting) laid on the table the :- following document The Hon.

C. V. Wight, O.B.E.

(Western Essequibo).

The Hon.

H. N. Critchlow (Nominated.

l The Hon.

J.

B. Sil1gh, Essequibo).

O.B.E.


(Demerara­ of the first Report of the proceedings meeting in Jamaica of the Provisional Council of the proposed College ish Guiana Delegate-His Justice of the w,est Indies by the Brit­ Honour Mr. University Luckhoo.

The Hon._F.

Dias, O.B.E.

(Nominated).

The Hon.

J. Gonsalves, McDavid) laid on the table the follow­ ing:- O.B.E.

(Georgetown The COLONIAL TREASURER (Mr. South).

The Hon.

C. R. Jacob (North Western Dis- trict).


The minutes of Finance Committee Council 1947. the Proceedings of the of the Legislative held on the 27th of February, The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo River).

BILLS-FIRST READIKCl The Hon.

A. M. Edun (Nominated).

The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated), (Mr. F. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL W. Holder) gave notice of the introduction Bills and first reading of the foll�wing intituled :- The Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nominated).

The Hon.

W. J. Raatgever (Nominated).


The Clerk read prayers.

"An Ordinance the registration factories, with the matters aforesaid."

and for purposes to provide for and regulation of connected The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the 7th March, 1947, as printed and circulated, and confirmed.

were taken as read \Vorkmen's 1934, for the purpose application celll!Lneous with."
Compensation Ordinance, its , of extending and in respect of mis­ matters connected there­ "An Ordinance to amend the 1779 Rent Restrict-ion 13 MARCH, i94 7.

(A;;uit.)

Biit i7SO ORDER OF TIIE DAY REs1.'

RmnmcTro:-r (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1947.

The PRESIDENT : I propose that we t.o deal with item 1.

We are in the stage with one proviso the hon.

the Att.orney­ should proceed Committee with.


After that, General would like to move the second 1·eading dinance to regulate tween landlord the existing Then, if we have time the hon.

the Colonial will move his motion.

Treasurer of item 3-A Bill intituled and tenant and t.o amend the relationship law with respect thereto".
"An or­ be­ I beg The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: to move that this Council resumes con­ sideration in Committee Bill intituled :- of the following "An Ordinance to amend the Rent Restriction Ordinance 1941, by enlarging the duration making provision maximum rents, and nected with and the application of the Ordinance, by for the fixing of con­ for purposes the matters aforesaid."
in determining or commercial of alternative In the first with limitations of alternative whether the accommodation suited to the means to wants a this Bill last in the proviso which I have just to hon.

Members is reasonably of possession.

and these are related that where a landlord for himself or for any pw·pose deals with the the first pro­ the question house," read.

As I explained while we were considering week, this second proviso matter on a wider basis than viso.
In the first proviso is, really, premises stated in (e)-for business the question purposes-then accommodation iS an element to be con­ sidered by the Rent Assessor the question proviso there are several regard to thiS question accommoda.tion, the question available of the tenant and his fam!ly as regards to place extent, it is of work, but in this second proviso only a question of availability.
In other words, if a tenant occupies the land!ord bu::einess questions to place of work a.nd so on would not come into the picture.

for consideration will be whether other accom­ modation the wish of the Council this proviso puts the landlord for himself-for -on the same footing as if he requires a dwelling-house of this second proviso correctly, meets hon.

Members since it who requires the purpose desires or commercial of the tenant's premises and those premises for then purposes, for himself.
reads ; -'- One of the elements r and proximity characte I think, The draft a premises of his business means, proximity can be found.

If I understand I have copies of the proposed amend- ments and will hand them over t.o hon.

Members.

Mr. WOOLFORD seconded.

Motion put, and agreed to.

CouNCIL IN Co:u?.IITTEE Proviso (2) to Section 7 (1).

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : The t.o be dealt with is on page 14 of proviso the Bill-at the top.

Hon.
Members will see that this proviso, as printed, reads :- or given in paragrapJ1 in respect of further that an order or shall not be made "Provided judgment on any ground specified (e)of this subsection premises in paragraphs section that, having regard t.o all the circum­ stances be caused by granting judgment than by refusing it, ........ other than dwelling-house, or (f) and (h) of this sub­ unless the Court is also satisfied of the case, Jess hardship would the order or to grant " Paragraph (e) appears on page 12 of the Bill .and I desire t.o emphasize words "premises other than dwelling- the on the further that an order or shall not be made or given of a public or commercial in sub­ ground specified (ii) of this paragrn.ph un­ that, "Provided judgment in respect building paragraph less the Court is also satisfied having regard to all the circumstances of the case, less hardship caused by granting cumstances are clude the question commodat1on landlord would be such cir­ it, and t.o in­ hereby declared ac­ for the Is ava.iJable " ............ or the tenant; whether other In other words, we have not omitted to provide tha.t if the premises quired for use by the landlord as business premises, available play.
accommodation are re­ himself of then the question should come into 1781 Rent Restriction LEGJRLATIVE COUNCIL (Amdt.)

Bill 1782 The CHAIRMAN: The torney-General will explain.

hon.

the At­ I think the feel­ The CHAIRMAN : I take it that you to meet the making this proviso are really wishes of the Committee.
for a land­ ing is; that if It is inconsistent for himself lord to get a dwelling-house accommoda­ without providing inconsistent tion then it should be equally for him to be able to get a business in that way.

alternative premises Yes, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: sir; that is the effect of this proviso.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: There words at the end of the proviso.

the hon.
the hon.

Member's to clarify are and view point �o for occupation or for for {iny the case In other whole-time the premises the premises for for himself, as a residence or for some person employment, mentioned in par.

qualifying In ·order I will say that the important bear in mind is this : Prnvided the land­ lord requires as a residence occupation member of his family, in his actual the other circumstances (e).
When the Bill was first drafted the was not dealt other aspect of the question words, we with in the proviso.

where a land­ have now omitted lord requires for himself the purpose of business, and the amend­ ment drafted gives what hon.

Members have before them· with regard to dwelling­ houses.

That is to say, in so far as dwell­ ing-houses are.
concerned made in (e) to the landlord-that a premises for he requires prerequisite relating other accommodation have left out as to the landlord for his own use for business and other aspects Magistrate, lord requires a business member of his family or for some person in his actual whole-time is the same thing as we had before in the other proviso.

then the of will not apply.


We of the matter the requiring will be dealt with by the such as cases where the-land­ himself to the availability is where employment.

It for a premises purposes.

This a concesiso� question the premises Mr. JACOB : I do not think that is extent, that a land­ character premises-without as provided in the existing to place of work, and so on, as to the needs of the tenant dwelling­ any that before a landlord can the Court will have quite clear from this draft.
I think this Oouncil agreed quite clearly lord should get his premises-a house or a business hindrance, Ordinance or the draft Bill.
The draft Bill provides g·et his own premises to be satisfied and his family as regards and proximity but this proviso "that, having the Court is to be satisfied regard to all the circumstances case, less hardship would be caused by granting it, and such circumstances hqreby declared to include other accom1nodation whether for the landlord the Court is satisfied modation is available the Court need not grant the but if it is satisfied dation is available might grant the application.
or the tenant; ........ " If that other accom­ then for the landlord that other accommo­ the question for the tenant then it makes it quite clear that is available ot the are application, as I should be able to take and have suggested of his own premises it, is quite simple.

It is The CHAIRMAN : .

The question, puts cer­ therefore, of a premises for his own use.

I have this matter with the hon.


the to This amendment, tain tags on the granting to a landlord discussed Attorney-General him that the latter part of this proviso, the Court is the words "unless including also satisfied ............ ", It seems to me that this proviso limits the first proviso that was passed by this Coun­ cil at the last meetmg and, perhaps, other Members will be able to say whether I am correct or not.
It is clear to my mind, however, ises without whether other accommodation for the tenant.

understand whether a landlord possession self without providing other accommoda­ tion, and whether he should also be able to say that his family had no alternative a.ccom.modation.
favour with the have agreed that a landlord his own use take over a premises having to find alternative This proviso before us provides The sub-clause, for North Western District referred t-he landlord mises the question of his accommodation.·­ that.

exactly which the hon.

Member <Mr.

Jacob) to, deals entirely with cases where that a landlord can get his prem­ determination of the question can for , without should be deleted.

If these amendments find then hon.


Members is available Council, for him­ 1783 Bent Restriction 13 MARCH1 1947.

(Amclt.)

Bill 1784 family, still kept on.

and It is there that the tags are In view of the statements made by requires -house or a business for himself-whether If, on the other hand, he the premises of alternative ·Mr.

C. V. WIGHT: The Select Com­ that if the landlord it is a - premises mittee decided the premises dwelling there Is no need for him to find alternative accommodation.
for himself does not require accommo­ then the element by the Magis­ dation is to be considered trate.

That seems to me to be the recom­ a.nd what this of the Committee mendation legislation out.

In other is in fact carrying possession words, if Mr. A. requires for his son-in-law premises business element of alternative would creep in, and the same thing would apply in the case of a dwelling-house.

If he requires a dwelling-house ·prellliises for himself, question of alternative dation comes in.
If that is what the hon.

the Attorney-General means, then it seems to me that the in­ of the Committee tention out.

The proviso or unwieldy, construction upon it by the Rent Assessor.

but that seems to be the that will have to be placed however, or other accommo­ would be carried lengthy accommodation says the proviso may be a little or a business of a this then no Mr. GONSALVES: There ls no doubt that it will be difficult to get this clause worded in a way to meet the decision the Select Committee.
has, I think, put the position the amendment rightly.

Is intended The last speaker as proposed If to of .

carry out the views or wishes of the Com­ the position mittee, be clear.

As regards the first the conditions is stated that would seem to me to It proviso will therein .

apply to persons other than the landlord.

statement hon.

Members I would like to have I take it, he would not be in If that that is the will carry of the Committee.

a very definite and emphatic from the hon.


the Attorney­ certain a very clear, statement General that these two provisos out the intention he gives a definite position, any way perturbed siders these provisos and that he would protect concerned.

should be no made clear mistake or difficulty in interpreting law.

and I would like to get it from the hon.

the Attorney-General these two provisos provide which the last speaker and I indicated.
I think the position so that there if a Court of law con­ wrong In any way the persons should be the definitely that for the things Mr. LEE : I would like the hon.

the but I would like as relating a certain For in­ to a landlord.

client of mine bought a in the city for his wife, but she and not on this prop­ Attorney-General to make very clear-the meaning of the words "any member of his family" stance, property lives in the country erty.
She is the landlord, to know whether a Court of law would pre­ vent the husband from getting possession of the property to him in equity if he wants to live in it himself, and if that husband should be made to show any of the reasons provided I think the hon.

the Attorney-General what is meant by should state definitely the words "any member of his family" and also what In equity, the husband's money paid for the property referred, was holding having been to which I have is meant by "landlord".
it in trust for her husband.

the Court will hold that the wife which belongs here.

Mr. WOOLFORD : Has conveyanc e ?

If so, what been made of this property does the affidavit say ?

Mr. LEE: My learned for himself else then he has to find alter­ in taking posses­ has not got but if accommodation, his family That is to say, a landlord sion of premises to find alternative he wants it for a member of or somebody native accommodation.
Attorney-General ln such a way as to create suspicion but, as I see it, the right of the landlord will be preserved from the question accommodation .

plus greater and he will be exempted of alternative hardship.

has worded the proviso The hon.

the in many cases of that -as he appeared the Court has often been asked kind-that to declare as having been held a property in trust by one person for another.
to be clear as to whether a husband whose money has bought a property for his wife should be left at the whims and caprices of the Rent Assessor.

whether the Select Committee that aspect of the m,9.tter in making this I do not know friend knows I want considered .L 785 Rent-Restriction LE.GISLATIVE COUNCIL (Amdt.)

Bill 1786 In this provision here the husband proviso.

why he wants it, will have good reasons but if he cannot find alternative accom­ modation he cannot have the use of his own house.
I feel a definition should be inserted "member of family."

not vote for the amendment.

as to what is the meaning of As it stands I can­ Mr. GONSALVES; I think the hon.

Member has lost sight of this fact: TltP.

Bill says you have to find alternati accommodation ily" is defined or not.

A prerequisite the finding of alternative ve whether "member of fam­ is accommodation.

of that premises at one's immediate wife and children, premises for us assume includes wants the reason ?

"Member of must be defined.


If you want to a person working in the country and I live there.

Can he get possession once without giving family" say "member of family" outside then let it be so defined.

Let that the landlord to give reason.

A man his son, he has convenience and buys a property for his should have it for the accommodation of I am asking Gov­ his wife and children.

ernment to define definitely in this B!1l "member of family'", it may be interpreted meant here.

I tfiink I have made mysel!


perfectly son in whose name transport the owner of the property his wife is not the owner and cannot ob­ unless tain occupancy native accommodation or reason is pro-.

vided.

clear now.

In our law the per­ is given is as in the Appeal Court different of the premises to what is alter­ and, therefore, The CHAIRMAN : The whole point his family without finding to take over the landlord of not permitting the premises for alternative accommodation reasol) River (Mr. Lee) has said.
It is very diffi­ cult to define what "family" Member, Mr. Lee, is the hon.

Member for Essequibo is.

The hon.

an open door.

is the very pushing Mr. GONSALVES: A man may go aud will not be return­ then arises away on war service ing.

T11e question whether he is still a member of the family for the pw-poses stated that family relates son or daughter.

I do not think my hon.

Friend need worry with that aspect of it.

to father, mother, of this Bill.


It is specifically Mr. LEE : I do not know whether I am, perhaps, a little dense !

Mr. GONSALVES: No; maybe the his mind but hon.

Member has an idea in he has not put it.

Mr. LEE : I am going to put it now.

is the person who owns the without get possession good reason.

That is my in his name and by our Con­ Law he is the owner.

His son or is not the owner by transport The landlord property veyancing daughter and, therefore, cannot property point.
If you want to define "landlord" as being wife, husband, then let it be so defined.

Let us assume for argument's the Bush and owns a premises.

occupying that premises, and children question as tc;> where he resides, sake that a man works in He is not is put to him before the Assessor will be doing so.

When a son or daughter.

he must say I am though his of the wife Let us assume ?

After all If the husband and right to possession.


of argument that the wife it for occupa­ go and live there, is not that that The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: If the hon.

Member looks at clause 8 he will see there set out the restrictions on the land­ lord's for the purpose owns the house and requires tion as a residence.
children occupation by the landlord is her home, where the family 1�sides i Put it the other way, if a person, a seaman travelling comes into the Colony now premises are those premises for use as his residence so far as the hon.

Member's cerned, "members of family," tended so far unt!l it becomes almost ridi­ culous, unless you are going to limit it only to his wife and children.

I think it is desirable ?


The difficulty, point is con­ on which can be ex­ is as regards the elaboration In which he wants to put his wife, up and down and just to leave it as it is.

not required Personally and then, owns by him who is or business trade, in As regards the question occupation of reasonabie of a dwelling­ requirement for house as a residence answer to the hon.
Member for George­ town South (Mr. Gonsalves) the provisos to meet the in the Bill are designed points which the Committee and suggested That is to say, (a) if the recommended.

1787 Ret!t Restr·iction 13 MARC'H .• 1947.

(Awlt.)

Bill 1788 requires the premises landlord for himself, then there are no limitations in that regard; (b) if the landlord requires the premises for himself for the· purpose of business then the question of liability for alternative accommodation does not come into play.
The reason why the proviso .

may appear to be involved meet other aspects of the situation nection with members of the landlord's family or people in his whole-time ment.

I think I have made it perfectly clear to hon.

Members.

is, it has to in con­ employ­ as being quite In order, there­ Committee I am not going to dis­ amendment fore, as a la.yman pute it.

Then we have further, the Attorney-General Select I leave the responsibility three hon.
Members and on this Council that what the laymen have suggested has been put into legal phraseology Council the hon.

says the idea of the is to cope with this thing.

therefm·e is passing on those and this it with that intention.

The CHAIRMAN : I would like to Mr. JACOB : I am not fully satis­ whkh has been hinted ask a question but not made by the Inst speaker.

landlord torney-General, turn the tenants occupy one ?
If a can he, Mr. At­ has two houses, myself and one or two other demand both of them anr:l out.

although he can only The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The to that goes back to the point I fied, but I am going to accept the explana­ tion given by the hon.

the Attorney-Gen­ eral.

As stated by the hon.

Member for Western Essequibo <Mr.

C. V. Wight), and the hon.

Member for Georgetown South, answei· who are Members of this Select Committee was making in answer to the hon.
Member including for Essequibo Members who are not here, the idea was ises are reasonably that a landlord can get his premises for lord for occupation residence use other words, I cannot say "I have a house without any obstacles of any kind.

The in Kingston and another in Charlestown hon, the Attorney-Genera1 and I want both."

amendment I accept that explanation.

hoped the Rent Assessor will accept that in that spirit.

worrying paragraph This is a proviso me somewhat.


In the second River (Mr. Lee)-the prem­ required says that this now makes it so.

The CHAIRMAN : He may want one or for public or cOmi!Il.ercial o.nd the other for his wife !

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL concerned, as proposed for himself it states : by the land­ It is to be : So far which 1s as a residence.
In " .... unless the Court is also satisfied that, having regard to all the circum­ stances would be caused by granting judgment it ........ of the case, less hardship the order or than by refusing to grant " I think the Rent Assessor can use this this order."
or not granting ini,o con­ will be co.used clause and say "I have power to decide after taking all the circumstances sideration that less hardship by granting If that is so, if the Rent Assessor cannot reasonably then I have nothing are several �· the present creating to take quite a long time to be remedied.

I a.m not a legal man; the hon.

Member for W<estern Essequibo .

rister and the hon.
rister and the hon.

Member for George­ town South is a Solicitor further cases based on this matter at time, and if this goes through a doubt again the position is going is u learned Bar- to say.

There of the Supreme pronounced this ·.

Court, an(l they have that such unless the Comt ts to be included In that case the man will circumstances are here­ as set out in a.s that is satisfied by declared the proviso.

have a good chance of getting Before I sit down, if you are interpreting the point by the hon.
Member for Esse­ quibo River, that is to say If a man wants It for himself which is for the purpose of his family, that is satisfaction and reas­ onableness to be dealt with.

The other aspect difficult.

of his application both houses.

of it Is more Mr. C. V. WIGHT: The point made on at dependent status of t,he two parties by you is a matter entirely the personal the time.

In other words, if a husband and wife are judicially by order of the Gourt.
then the Magistrate would have to take that into consideration as reasonable and probably grant him both houses.

Further.

requirement separated if there is a .

separation wnich can prov� thft.t the l'l\16- take this into consideration, 1789 Rent Rest·riciion LEGISLATIVE CouNcIL (Amdt.)
Bill 1790 for both to expect, ditrerences, and his immediate then· I see no logical band and wife are Jiving apart because of personal reason why in such a case the Magistrate should refuse the application houses, one for himself family and the other for his wife and her family.
On the other hand it immediate is quite unreasonable if the hus­ band and wife are living together under the same roof and are considered in law to be one and the same person, and it is very improbable be able to say "I want this house for my-· house for .self and wife and also the o,ther myself and wife."

It is unreasonable and illogical.

question fact of the personal concerned.


persons It seems the answer to your , will have to be premised by the Are they one and the same that the husband would status of the parties in law ?

as recognized in I suppose conversant he want that by the With regard to the point 1·aised River as to He will see there defined what with Stroud's to us Dictionary" known of family" as understood extended hon.

Member for Essequibo what is "member of the family," he is perfectly "Judicial lawyers.
is ·'member !aw Does has to in any way ?

All the Magistrate and do is to look in Stroud's the prop­ see whether the person requiring is a person erty for residence who comes within the definition there.

It seem.s to me you will be only putting legal definition recognised form, and I do not thin!

;: unless we intend either to limit that defi­ nition as is stated in 8troud's it.

a statutory into a it is necessary Dictionary ·;:ir business or to enlarge or limited of.
to that sep­ to - We have of trust, on the wife's in Georgetown-·.

of the Members_ of the Ordinance had the intention -and the assurance to own premises purpose who desires and is judicially for business arated from her husband.

He referred the husband hold­ the question ing· the property What behalf.

more he wants than to tell the Rent Asses-: , for my own .

sor "I want that premises purpose, It does not my own business."
matter whether it is the husband; it may_ be that he is in the dual capacity of hus-' band and manager.

It seems clear as day�.

the interpretation light, as it stands with the proviso.

already of the Committee the hon.

the Attorney-General efl'ect.

We must have a limit on the ques-., tion of a house being required other than the landlord, have the reasonableness the premises lord.
It is all very well to say and a.11 very well to decide "I want a thing and r do not mind what is going to happen," but in this matter you have to look at to it and see that it is fair and equitable both sides.

It seem,5 to me that when a landlord genuinely own occupation, it or for business get It as the provision not want one landlord to occupy ten places coming along and sa.y­ ing "I want to kiclt this fellow who is in competition There is no reason why he should be allowed a par-.
to do so and to monopolize form of business.

ticular desires a place for his whether to reside in purpose, he can is worded.

We do · who is in a position with me out of my place."

being required for persons for the land­ · and we must also and suitability of There is also the other point which of property it does on With regard to the other point.

him when he says a business respect I do not quite or anythin� which i8 in Water Street may be wanted to carry on business by a landlord or a dwelling-house.
seem there should be some limit.

"ition the acquisition either for business Take the case of a well known big business, whether it be a drug �tore else, are we to allow a concern, in a financial place around for its business such a case the Rent Assessor to say "Wthy turn out a poor struggling chemist to· put your own business think the point raised for Essequi-bo River seems easily He may find some difficulty; already indicated, to tpe I muy ment�on.

With due hon.
With due hon.

the Attorney-General, agree with premises by yourself and, be-.

cause you are going to turn a man out and .

he cannot get other premises They are two .

Street, reas-.

As regards different onableness : sor can say "I cannot remove Mr. A. or.

Mr. Y. who is carrying Street because It another area.

· I .iust means within a reasonable happen to carrv on business in w�.t.Pr In Wa,ci; he will not be able to find_ you cannot get it.

things entirely.

as I have in the case of a lady ?


Surely in will have site in Witter Street."

by the hon.

Member I do not think the Rent Asses- on business position.

answered.

to acquire suitable in Water every ?''

I 1791 Eent Restriction 13 1.i.AJteH, 1941.

(.Amclt.)

Bill 1792 Street and the owner desires he will have to find a place very nearly in juxtaposition ve1·y plain to Water Street.

It is and straightforward.


the premises, With regard to the question of trust was made pro­ is In a person's full title and, if you pay can be raised by the hon.

Member for Essequibo the dif­ River I do ask him to appreciate ference in this case.

He knows the Ordin­ ance to which reference vides that when a property name he obtains the affidavit fee, the wife's name put Instead, with whether it is acquired the wife's money or it is a gift by the husband.
He knows fully well the diffi­ culty when Mr. and property knows the difficulty again.st properties husband or wife.

We have had failures and one or two successes, that is clear a Iitt1e involved, involved but the law is generally redundant.

· in enforcing trust hot in the name of the and it does seem may seem A. owns a lot of money though the proviso in his wife's and sometimes name.

He requiring that a landlord tags.


The Committee for his own use either as a me that this amendment decided The has convinced has certain there should be no tags whatever.

Committee decided a premises residence should get it.

The or for ,business hon.

Member, who is a Member of the Committee, are certain tags on it.

That bad because that.

The Committee said The Committee further.

cil are so inclined, his premises Members of this Coun­ that a man should get and for his family.
the Committee did not decide it must be free.

in his last speech admits there was inclined to go a little and several for himself is a little Mr. GONSALVES: On a point of Member would re­ correction !

The hon.

member, the paint was that to get it without modation.

the landlords not be made to go and look for other places for the tenants.

he must be able finding alternative accom­ That is the point stressed they should themselves-that by Mr. JACOB : I was coming to that.

for his own use.
for his own use.

I agree with Your after by way of No Attor­ because long it is a terribly an wbsolutely there are defects should not get his own do not know why as I am not cy that this thing should go The CHAIR.MAN : I think this pro­ the hon.

Member (Mr. Jacob), of Members seem to it.

There was no question should get his own premises but the trouble of "family" viso on page 14 which we have discussed has been very well ventilated.
ney-General per­ can produce of t1'.is fect draft, but the main intention needed BUI is quite clear.

It is desperately _ legislation I ask and very important.

Members to pass the amended proviso hearing the a,ble explanation given by Members of the Select Committee.

With exception of -the possible for North Western District who is not quite convinced, the other Mem­ bers who are legal Members Committee, are quite happy about think we have given this particular a thorough ventilation, gest to hon.
Members to pass it.

If it is found later to be defective, have to amend it.

A great deal depends on the officer who has to deal with it, the Assessor, we hope.

The hon.

the a very good one, Attorney-General has that in mind, but I ask hon.

Members to give it a trial.
Pass the Bill through the third reading this afternoon because it is really important and, perhaps, The landlord for members of his family, about that is the definition because the majority decide against that the landlord premises Excellen through a.nd, I trust, if and when It goes through and interpretation, clause-I a lawyer, but clause 8 occupies five pages in this Bill--and there are so many subclauses and the whole thing is very greatly know only too well the calibre everyone casting any reflection peal to those responsible more easy, a little little the ordinary layman need lawyer to understand ristei• or Solicitor for and he gives one opinion and when you go to another you get an opinion dictory, and by the time you are through you are no wiser than when you started.
We in this Colony should have something very much clearer.

written something I do ap­ to put things a plainer, not go to a It.

You go to a Bar­ Mr. JACOB : After listening to the hon.

Member !or Western Essequibo, and provisos, We involved.

of almost I think I could have to show that a man very desperately needed.

and the Government in this Colony.

more than W!h.ile I am not will appoint on anyone, and I will sug­ of the Select then we would contra­ proviso so that it.

I he an interpretation.


1793 Rrnt Rcslriclio11 LEGlliLA'l'IV"E CouN,rL (Amdt.)

Bill 1794 can get it without wanting his premises all this argument all this talk, that when this thing goes through we will have greater business public and private here.

So I trust after despatch as well.

of It under the law he wants it for himself.

that after leaving however, can be argued, the first house his son and daughter-in­ law may go and live with he can then rent the first house or sell it at a higher price.
him again and the last is provided wanting his premises Mr. GONSALVES : Touching point made by th_e hon.

Member as to a and hav­ landlord ing to show reasonableness, it seems to me that a landlord wanting his place for his own use ex facie is a reasonable request..

If he Is not genuine about it and does not for his own use, that is really want it another matter.

Whatever in all these provisos, the last one is the gov­ erning one of the whole lot.
It say:; : "in any such case as aforesaid asked to make the order or give the judg- fo make the 11ient considers it reasonable order or give the judgment."

The land­ and saved the bother and lord is protected trouble place for the tenant.

That ii, the gist of it.

The land­ lord is not burdened ing to look for a house for of the bona fide that he wants the plr..ce for his own use.

of .finding another a tenant because with the duty of go­ the Court market.
in the property at the first suitable I think hon.

Members know that In there are owners of property Trinidad who allow them to become vacant because they Some are gambling boarding of these owners even live in houses so as to be able to sell their prop­ erties I think the same thing can be clone in this Colony also.
Let us say that a man owns a property house to live and he goes into a boarding sells that property as soon as he gets a chance for $7,000 making a Does this Bill offer any protection against such a person ?

which he purchased for $5,000; profit of $2,000.

opportunity, and With regard to the other _point, the hon.

Member for Western Essequibo (Mr. c.-V. Wight) and myself did not brh�� it up as lawyers, and I had no reason to t,hink that the hon.
the Attorney-General who is a member of one of the Inns and also His Majesty's Legal Adviser to this would put before this Coun­ Government cil for the use of the community a I.aw which was not was not requested mittee.

I, as a Solicitor, accepted vice is wrong I accept _it.

It would be a sad day to think that we have in this Colony an Attorney-General who would give Government to be put nnd by the Select Com­ advice given to me and if hi& ad­ have always intended bad advice.
Mr. LEE : Let us assume for the has three that a landlord and he goes into one of sake of argument or four properties them to live, but finds that he cannot get who on with his son and daughter-in-law are also living there; he then goes to the Rent Assessor premises"-not his family.

My submission Oourt will be bound to give him because for any other memlber of is, that the and says "I want a second two in wh1ch would be created.

if a out of the one In the first one I presume the hon.
you, sir, in suggest­ a.nd says he wa.nts another and he seeks to enlist because which is sympathy he has three or and cannot get his son and Mr. WOOLFORD: The hon.

Member who has last spoken has submitted he shows propositions.

that some difficulty man who lives with his son and daughter­ in-law finds that he cannot live properly with them and therefore goes to t.he Rent prop­ Assessor erty for himsell.

Member means another property tenanted, for that landlord four properties daughter-in-Jaw he lives.
I join with ing to the hon.

Member for Essequibo <Mr.

Lee) that it will require of a certain matters.

terpretation adequate one· a laborious discussion but an - and that will be very necessary from what I have seen of the Officel' to be appointed.

lency has found ft possible Officer, and it is necessary should be a man of experience gence of mind with a sound general edge.
Because landlords ant for the benefit of a landlord to the Rent Assessor and saying "I want a house for myself because I cannot live t-0 look after such What is wanted is a correct to appoint an that tha.t Officer , I am glad that Your and intelli­ knowl­ he thinks he can dispossess a ten­ the hon.

Member represents of the law-not and exercise a Magistrate calibre by going River Excel­ in­ l\'J5 Hant Restrict ion 13 MARCH, "19-±7.

(Amclt.)
(Amclt.)

B,:n 1796 comes in; alter­ but he cannot do so wlli my relatives," toa man with an ordinary mind like my­ se:i.

If the landlord wants the house for hbiself then the tenant would, presumably, bethe kind of man who would like to have That is vacating, thl house the landlord is where the Rent Assesor native accommodation the landlord sion of the one house unless he gives up the other.

He will not be able to use the second premises they call it in Trinidad.
sor should say to the landlord you an order for the second house providing you, and your son-in-law vacate the other one."
The Rent Asses­ "I will give will not be able to get posses­ for "Peko"-or and daughter will be there and whatever her living premises she is a separate If the status of a wife is one which in the matrimonial home to vacate it person is concerned, but cannot as an excuse say "I have and will send my wife and forbids and she has been compelled then, of course, in so far as residence a landlord two buildings children to occupy one and I will occupy the other."
He will have to give •an excuse at the moment, and if it is that he wants a separate for his wife and chil­ dren-and there again the calibre of the Rent Assessor will come in-he would not get an order for the tenant to vacate.

I cannot see that any situation will arise in view of this clause.
At the present -and it seems to me to be proper-there arn hardly two days in a week when I am not present for some time in one or other of the Magistrates' Courts, and I say without hesitation that one Magis­ trate cannot perform the duties of this office.

Cases are pending there for two years and more in which no order has been made.

The atmosphere a.nct with every degree cf truth I say that it is impossible the staircase to another.

the accommodation for the trial of these cases.


days to ascend or to pass from one Court I would like to know where is going to be found on certain is chaotic, time this discretion-some­ of the Magistrates the Magistrate done with care but that must be is not convenient make an whereby the work will be Take the case of from the East Coast at pres­ to days per week on which he will be talting these cases.

You can.

of course, arrangement divided, as I know the position at present.
who comes ent; the arrangement the public and it is not retlucing the num­ ber of cases for hea1':tng in the City.

I am making the point that the person ap­ pointed to exercise thing which he will have to do not daily but hourly-will have to be guided entire­ ly by his own experience.
of the difficulties A Select Committee is usually one which should be given some time for the examination but, unfortun­ ately, that has not been so in this par­ ticular I find that the Select Committee did not have a single question put in examination or take any evidence from any member of the public as to what conditions to arise, the draughtsman and so there was nothing to assist case.

On the face of enquiries except their own views.

of its problems are likely And, that is one with Select Committees.
Mr. JACOB : I beg to correct that !

Mr. WOOLFORD: Before I made I was very careful the statement for information wrong my informant is Attorney-General.

on the point, and if I am the hon.

the in asking Mr. GONSALVES : Does thP.

hon.

Member mean that no oral evidence taken?

was by interested M1·.

WOOLFORD : Yes, and I am right.


What the Committee had before it were certain representa,tions probably made in writing parties­ they may have been tenants -but there was nothing like the evidence which should have been obtained from a person who.

in my opinion.

been asked, and that is the Officer who has been administeri ng the Ordinance the last few years.
ought to have, within or landlorc!s I do not know what arrangement proposes to make, but if you Government get a man to perform the duties-and suggest he will have to be a whole-time Public Officer if he is going to be a Magis­ trate-no other work should be tacked on to him during any one of the three or four Mr. C. V. WIGHT : I do not quite fol­ low my learned Friend, the hon.

the Deputy President.

in his remarks, but I do not know whether I am getting or he is get­ ting involved.
The Select Committee did He is usually involved very clear I 1707 Rent Restriction IJEGISLATIVE COUNCIL between the Attorney­ Mr. WOOLFORD : I say again that not just sit down and agree to make cer­ tain recommendations.

They- Mr. WOOLFORD: I will ask the hon.· Member to state what his objection is and not make a speech.

Mr. WIGHT : The hon.

Member before us.


said we had no oral evidence Does that mean that we had no landlord or tenant giving evidence said the Attorney-Gen eral could have got from the Rent Assessor, on oath ?

He -evidence but the did get it so far as I am or as a it was in writing Attorney-General aware.
Whether result of discussion General know, but he did get information Rent Assessor, not from the ·, and the Officer concerned I do I be that the but representa­ there was no oral evidence am not accept­ anything Magistrates the Ordin­ aware that any repre­ by the Commit­ that Mr. WOOLFORD: I ing the view that that refutes said-that I made use of the .fore the Committee.

word, "representations", tions are not oral evidence.
I will also make the statement who have been administering ance have not been were received sentations tee, and I would like to know whether is so.

There is more tfian one Magistrate c;oncerned, is that representations tain matters and we have no opportun­ ity of examining not opposing day, I say let us make as tidy a job as poss­ ible.

There are only two Magistrates concerned, and if they made representa­ tions to the Attorney- ask whether the Select Committee benefit of them.

them here.
them here.

While I am of this Bill to­ and the trouble General I would in this Council are made in cer­ .the passing had the being made after it its report that will be con­ as to cause an It does not matter how clever a Com� mittee you get.

there is always a chance of some suggestion has submitted sidered so important to be inserted a,mendment we have it froII) hon.

Members that these of his family"­ rnernber words-"any The hon.

Member might be ambiguous.


for North Western District but in his the phraseology, says he accepts in the own mind he has some suspicion Why is there such an eagerness to matter.

to meet it.

Here (Mr. J·acob) a public to correct of the phrase ?

We are with legislation and while I have no idea what did-I do not know what y-General doubt the validity dealing situation, these two Officers they told the hon.
the Atto1:ne -I know they will have ma11y headaches of this Bill and that in the administration goes for the number of cases yet Can the hon.

Member for Georgetown South (Mr. Gonsalves) deny for the last two years ?

are cases pending unheard.

that there Mr. c. v. WIGHT : And the reason is that it is too much work for one man.

statement The trouble is that when one makes a somebody always at­ it.

Is it too much work up regu­ that is not the only reason.
in this Council correct tempts to correct for one man when one case comes larly for two years ?

The reason is-well, I would rather not say.

The Magistrate at times finds it difficult to attend that in this not contemplated day, for reasons Bill.

Let the Bill go through, not tack any trate, because the present has to put down his duties to sometimes deal with some other matter-some matter.

Can any hon.

Member dispute that ?

Further, the hon.


the Attorney-General head of the legal administration, posed to see that this Bill is properly ministered, will be a.ble to find a man of the calibre suitable of who, as is sup­ ad­ that · I hope Your Excellency other dutii;s on the Mag·is­ I say in the presence Magistrate for doing so.

but I say do civil The CHAIRMAN : I shall not give my word until you are ready to admin­ ister it.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: are with a certain difficulties.
position aware, we are confronted amount of printing is that.

as hon.

Members · The The CHAIRMAN : In other words, as soon as the Bill comes · from the printers ministered.

Is not that so ?

you will be ready to have it ad­ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Ar­ will be made to have it ad­ So fat as the views of the hon.

rangements ministered.

the Deputy President well known to all legal practitio are concerned, ners and, it is 17Drl RC'nf Rc8tri:ction 13 lvIAHCH, 1947.

(Arndt.)
(Arndt.)

Bill 1800 the Courts, of accommodation in fact, to all members of the community who have to frequent question cult one.

It is a matter whethel· the Council to carry out the neces­ is prepared sary extension, adequate provide accommodation.

to spend money so as to is a very diffi­ that the The CHAIR/MAN : Will the Town ?

Council help somewhat The ATTORNEY-GENERA L: That -that when Mr. Stafford was Rent the Town council will is another matter.
Your Excellency recollect Assessor time and time again and as a result we had to move over to the Court.

We asked them time and time again to allow us to carry on but, eventu­ ally, we had to vacate.

made requests for their premises, The CHAIRMAN : Are you going to ask the Town Council to allow you to go back again ?

If so, the Mayor of George­ town may be in a position of your chances.
dication to give some in­ Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I do not think not grant Gov­ that there should If it became necessary in any way I do not We have what L<; transpiring.

the use of the Town Hall, even as a whole will stand in the to hamper Govern­ ·but will rather assist question the Council way or do anything· ment in this matter, in this very burning possible.
see why the Council could er-nm,ent temporarily, This Council i:, fully aware, however,·of made a recommendation be � fourth Court in the Law Courts when the other courtr0om think the Medical Department into some other premises-the ings or somewhere since 1941 that efforts will be understood made to get the Medical to leave the Law Courts, place there will be a fourth Court.

Whether it will be occupied Assessor not know.


I think the Town Council be willing I do not say, however, ance given to continue four or five years.

is to move U.S.O.

build­ else.

I have always that it will allow any assist­ 1ike for anything; Department anc!.

when that takes to help in this matter.

I do will by the Rent I The CHAIRMAN : Thank you.

Mr. Attorney-General, of staff ?


what a.bout the questlon or by a Judge-Magistrate, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The of Work is now being gone of officers to deal with the in­ question creasing amount into and, a.s I have already is hoped that as soon as Your Excellency gives assent to this Bill arrangements will be made to have not only one but two officers to deal with the matter of admin­ istering it-the one dealing rrnd someone else.

intimated, with it now it The CHAIRMAN : Both whole-time ?
I I received return to normal.

the Rent Restriction The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Ordinance, of tbe Until I think it will that people are now ha.v� to these Courts than As regards the Officers admin­ conditions be appreciated ing more recourse hithe.tto.

istering may say that before consideration Bill was gone into I had a discussion with and I also called in Mr. Mr. Stafford, Browne so that I could get the benefit of their experience.
no comments at that time, but after the Bill was pub� comments from certain lished I received them and I mentioned Assessor the Rent to the Committee.

to this I mentioned Council also when place that I had received on behalf of the landlords Solicitors, the hon.

Member for Georgetown Mr. Gonsalves, that he who mentioned would be abl'e to put them before the Council.

desirable tee is appointed exercise the information on every aspect of the matter being dealt with, but there is no ,obligation evidence.
that Committee every possible effort to obtain all This Government that whenever regarcfo a Select Commit­ which could be obtained the debate was taking and· I also received some from South, should to take it as i:epresentations from a firm of Mr. WOOLFORD : I rise to a point of is­ in every c[l.se suggestion that I said can possibly order !

The hon.

Member's though nothing· convey that meaning-that or almost every case there should be oral evidence I did before a Select Committee.

not suggest.
not suggest.

has not got the right to suggest This is a matter of procedure own admission, the Rent Assessor an expression was that _he did not get evidence that, and the hon.

Member tha,t I did.

and, on his from per- that might have been of opinion.

What I regretted he had comments from becomes available.

1801 Ren/ Resln'cti'on LEO!!

'\LAT!VE COUN'ClL ( A 111dl.)

Bill 1802 sons in the position of tenants or land­ lords per se, and not only the comments of him.
as evidence before the Rent Assessor I strongly that to the statement protest there ls no obllgatlo\_1 Select Committee evidence.

of this Council on the part of a to take The CHAIRMAN : What bas hap­ pened has happened.

Bill now?

May we pass this the Deputy President mittal of the clause?

suggesting a recom­ Mr. WOOLFORD: If the hon.

Mem­ ber allows me, I desire to say one should hesitate before rising is usual to give your reasons recommittal.

to do.

The President ask for that.


That Is what I am allowed to a point of order.

It knows I am going to to ask for a The CHAIRMAN : I did not know that.

if it wants to I am going appointed.

of the scheme, is not bound to it.

I have heard not to have at the Magistrate':s Mr. GONSALVES : I want to give one little bit of advice which Government need not take.
Government to take it or to listen it stated that you are going to have an extra Rent Assessor to im,plore this Government, make a success one Rent Assessor Court and one at the Town Hall.

One may have a case fixed for the Magistrate's Court and another fixed for the Town Hall, both for the same time, and it is difficult to divide oneself between the two places.
The landlord gaged in another case in the Magistrate's court and cannot attend at the Town Hall, and as a result his case at the latter place is struck out because no postpone­ ment is allowed.

Government made to m,ake the scheme a success.

is done I ask to see that some effort is Whatever may be en­ The CHAIRMAN : It has been moved that the proviso substituted page 14. you have before you be for the proviso as amended on put, and agreed to.

Question Clause 3-Application of Ordinance.


Mr. WOOLFORD : May I direct your to a clause in the Bill ?

It is on 3.

I was Blll-clause attention page 3 of the printed not present in Council was considered.

meaning at all.

Subclause To my mind it has no when this clause (2) says : shall not apply­ while let "This Ordinance < a) to a dwelling-house at a rent which bona fide in­ of cludes payments " board or attendance; I am sorry I have to remark it, but I in respect do not understand it.
Mr. JACOB: To a point of order!

This clause has been passed.

Is the hon.

or ........ or a of 1941, it is only that that does not apply to a dwelling­ is intended to be a re-enactment are as to whether the payments or to the ten­ Mr. WOOLFORD : I am going to ask is to find by that clause.

etc.

Here the Idea is reintroduced, but again because there ts no in­ of the hon.

the to to the Bill and also If after, in view or for thnt.
The object of my rising out what really It is supposed clause which was In Ordinance No.

23 of 1941.

Members would find If they look at the parent Ordinance section house let in good faith.

of that section it is meaningless dication being made to the landlord ant.

W:hat does It mean?

I do ask that before we pass leg_islation we say exactly what is meant.

I am saying this because I had drawn lhe attention Attorney-General the old Ordinance.
what I have said, this Council wishes to pass this clause I have no objection.

It Is it means nothing, Intention mg-houses.

Council ing-houses, 1t is not being .carried ask you as President that it is made to apply to boarding-houses, because it is going to cause some trouble to a lot of people who are paying $30 to of them in one $40 per month - several house.
If the landlord can give those per­ sons notice you are going by legislation to affect a large number of people who are in boarding-houses living pressure and are not better off than in rented rooms, and there are several such houses in the City.

Why should not this legislation object of the first legislation, ingless it In operation.

that this should not apply to board­ then and I know lhe was that it should apply to board­ apply to them ?

It was the but this mean­ out by the clause.


I of this Council and that was the intention, If It is the intention clause which is repeated No one can tell whether through economic here Umlts to see of As 1803 Rent RestricNon 13 ThfARCH, 1947.

(Amell.)

Bill 1804 it does apply to lodging-houses ing-houses.

That is why I mention it.

or boal'd­ ance, the Deputy President to recommit the clause.
will not worry of Boarding­ Ordinance subclause in respect in connection Subsequently amend this in so far as of board, or attend­ houses are concerned.

we can· allow it to rema.in (3)-was It states : whether it would not be better question or hotels, the work of the Asses­ n is going to be early, : In The ATTORNEY-GENERAL Ordinance was Mr. WOOLFORD : To tell the truth that as long as this the Bill and the tenants to boarding-houses you are have a number of cases.

I was the provisions were ex­ in 1944.


In or to any 7Jremises trade or professional as they are not Hotels are on a different There is a distinct 1941 when the principal I am of the opinion passed, this section-3, clause remains in passed as part of the Ordinance.

think it applies "let in good faith at a rent which includes going to payments wondering ance, or use of furniture, to delete it.

If you allow it to remain used for business, you would increase purposes."

sor.
sor.

If the legislatio the Rent Restriction then I suggest tended to business premises and necessarily the amending Bill all that we have done boarding- the words "bona fide" is to substitute for houses are different, "good faith".

ls The whole licensed.

whether hoarding-houses, or altogether.

places of that nature should have some in status between a boarding-house sort of restriction to meet a hotel.

I am willing and ready tariffs and their charges.

the hon.
the hon.

the Attorney-General, because I that hon.

Members know how difficult matter is dealt with under a special Ordin­ that of his predecessor ance, which was passed with reference to no provision it is intended, hotels.

service respectable In that provision of hotels by the Rent Board, if the Board is satisfied hon.

- I believe with the tariffs.

Members know the tariffs are put up.

What, I ,think, the hon.

Member on my left (Mr. Woolford) be legislation live in hotels and boarding-houses.
matter, as I have told him already, receiving that we have this here following lines of the other Ordinances-and that is a wide matter in so far as tariffs are concerned-it include it in this particular Bill.

your approval will be glad to have the third reading poned to next week.

premises which include there is exemption although for boarding-houses, .

of poor and hundreds women are affected.

I may say to that in Trinidad and it is in his opinion in office.

There is The PRESIDENT : I gather the hon.


The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: With The CHAIRMAN : I suggest deal with it in a separate is not thought desirable and surely of Members, I to protect those who have to at, is that there should but, in view of the fact That is The Council plane difference and attention resumed.

is driving with their along the Bill.


that we post­ to the Attorney-General the amendments which is therefore postponed to meeting with the approval wants to be sure of before t.11e third reading, of Members.

the next ?

In your opinion should there Thi.rd reading of Bill deferred.

The CHAIRMAN : Can I ask you one question be some control houses not included of hotels and boarding­ now in that section not advise that section 3 ·' 3 ?

You will should be amended to include wish to do it in another Bill.
them as you Yes, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: because it will be too complicated.

I do not think it will be desirable.

The CHAIRMAN : I think the Deputy point is very important and, President's I thinlt, get on and cover it with another short �ill soon.

With that assur- we sl10uld The PRESIDENT : The hon.

the will take his motion, and Treasurer Colonial then we will return to the second reading of that important Tenants Bill.
and Landlord Bill-the Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I do not think it would be fair to the Officer concerned It is intended to say as Rent Assessor.

his duty that the Officer has not performed faithfully and well.
I think it should be put on record that those of us, who are constantly in touch with· the present 1805 Mr. Ramlaggan's G1atuity LEGrSLATIVE CouNnL Lcmdlorci JzTenant Bill 1806 the Rent As­ Officer who is administering are perfectly sessment Ordinance, that he has done a good job of it and bas his discretion exercised usually very well.

satisfied conded.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ Mr. LEE : I would like to endorse the hon.

Member's remarks.
Member's remarks.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL; Per- Mr. ROTH : While I am in full sym­ pathy with the spirit to support I propose I do not understand.

Pararaph Message says : of this Message and it, there is one point 3 of the I clo not think any reflection was sonally being cast on the Officer who is now ad­ ministering Ordinance.

has said, he has done very well.

what is admittedly I think, as the hon.


Member a difficult wages been "Had Mr. Ramlag·gan's paid from pub'lic funds instead of drainage have been eligible etc."

he would on retirement for superannuation, rates, As he has been paid from Drainage GRATUITY To Mn.

R.AMLAGGAN The COLONIAL TREASURER: With of Members I beg to move motion : - the approval the following not paid from rates ?

Why should it be paid funds?


W11y should not that rates, why is the gratuity Drainage from public body which employed That is the only point I desire to raise .

him pay the gratuity?

.

'That, with reference to -the the Government's Officer Administering Message No.

14 of the 7th of March, of the 1947, this Council approves gratuity payment of a C'Ompassiona-te retired of $364 to Mr. Ramlaggan, Foreman Ranger of the Canals Nos.

1 and 2 Drainage and Irrigation Area."


As Your Excellency's Message indicates, to exposure meritorious in connection Board, having given but his case is strongly met from the rates liable in that Area.

to super­ he is not entitled benefit under Government Regu­ recom­ who is now 63 years of Mr. R'Rmlaggan, age, has served for over 25 years and had of serious il!­ to retire in circumstances em'ployee, health.

He is not a Government with the but was employed Canals Nos.
1 and 2 Dminage Area, his sal­ ary b eing normally paid by the persons Accordingly annuation lations, mended by the Centni,l exceptional subjected weather due to the nature of his duties which accounted also point out it is a case of severe hardship The Board, therefore, approaching he be treated man eligible been in regular Government he would have been entitled equivalent that the Council in order that this case of good work and severe hardship should dealt be properly with.
I beg to move the motion standing jp my name, employment to a gratuity I do hope on the rnme basis as a Had he .felt justified and asking that He was service.

in all kinds of ·th.

I may .

in for superannuation.

would pass this motion for his ill-heal this Council to one year's salary.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : The of maintaining is very simple.

The the payment of the wages The Drainage answer to that question of the rates levied by the Board disposal set out by law.
The Drain­ is very clearly age Board can only apply the rates for works in the the purpose area, including· of employees.

power whatever as rates for paying pensions, Member will realize in the law such a power without some serious ing the bodies concerned, the Village Dis­ to obtain their consent.

tricts, specia1 case and cannot be met from the to rates.

a.pproach and the hon.

that we cannot include and the Board thinks it desirable to use the funds rollected consideration to treat it as such.
this Council Board has no This is a and without approach­ Mr. ROTH: I thank the hon.

the Colonial Treasurer for the explanation.

Question put, and agreed to.

Motion carried.

LANDLORD AKD TEKANT BILL, 1947.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I beg to move the Bill intituled - second reading of the following "An Ordinance relationship tenant and to amend the existing thereto."

with respect the between landlord and law to regulate recollect ion of It will be w.ithin the hon.
Members of this Council that some Further, the Bill specifically declares 1807 .La11dlurrl a11d 18 l'.VfAROH, 1947.
Te11a·nt Bill 1808 time .in 1939 a Committee by the Governor Jackson, reference- was appointed of that time, Sir Wi'lfrid with the following terms of "(a) to consider generally and to or the pro­ of amending Ordinance, of the Rent and Premises Cha.pter report on the desirability ·otherwise visions Recovery with special tion as to whether any goods and chattels, a tenant, distraint cedure for the recovery premises; other than those of should be subject and also to the pro­ regard to the ques­ 92, to of rights on the one of tent where it does not exceed of the rent also does not ex­ recovery $240 per annum and the possession premises where ceed $240 per annum.
In other cases it is difficult to know what are the of the landlord hand and the rights of the tenant on the other hand, apart from the terms of any expressed agreement which may have· been -entered into between the parties.

always arising· which requirn this subject Guiana, Chapter 7, and it will be appre­ ciated that the only means of accomplish­ ing this is by statutory Questions are settlement on since the Civil Law of British provision.

and to report upon of enacting ( b.)


to consider the question tion so as to specify what coven­ ants, if any, shall be implied a contract house or room."

for the letting in of a legisla­ of the existing of land­ relating as Chairman; The Committee the Hon.

Francis was constituted of 1 basis for drafting the which hon.

Members now have their report some time in 1939 which was one, has been used by Mr. A. V. Crane, who was then Senior Magis­ trate, Dias, the Hon.
E. G. Woo'lford, Mr. John Ballers and Mr. A.

A. Thorne.

The Committee submitted -22nd June.

They dealt with several llliatters to the relationship lord and tenant and the report, a very full and careful for the purpose legislation before them.

It will be within the recol­ lection debate· on the Bill-the Letting (J:mplied ·Terms)-the hon.

Member for Georgetown sug­ gested that Mr. Crane, who was then act­ ing Solicitor-General man of the Committee, tage draft the Bill.
I am happy to say that Mr. Crane drafted the Bill which the Coun­ cil now has before it, and it was completed just a few days before he left this Colony to take up his appointment as a Judge in the Leeward Islands.

and had been Chair­ might with advan­ of hon.


Members that during the South (Mr. Gonsalves) of Houses a number of pro­ the Common Law of and also propcses most of which have proved through- C.ommon Law of the Colony relat .. ih this have been drawn from the Law of Property Act, that the ing to tenancies-is England, visions out the years to be necessary Colony.

Those provisions generally 1925. and the provisions Ren't and Premises have been included in the Bill to include.
rents not exceeding $480 per annum.

$240 per annum is now regarded as being too low since the Standard Rent has been very appreciably of the Letting of Terms) Ordinance have in the Bill· so as to get to landlord raised.

That was fixed .

in the year .1903, and conditions have changed during the years which have elapsed.

The provisions Houses (Implied been incorporated a statute law relating ant in a single Act.

Hon.

Members will recollect that this Council.


that when_ a comprehensive before Members then those provisions be incorporated will be repealed.

this Bill.

when that Bill was before the Council was informed Bill is brought will arid ten:..· _ .The Bill declares the kinds of tenancies in tl;le Colony and the law applic­ existing aible to them, and I may observe that apart from the Common Law of England which has proved inadequate days there is no la.w affecting ship between the landlord and the tenant.
The Rent a.nd Premises Recovery ance, Cha.pter 92, deals solely with the in modern Ordin­ the relation­ a Further the ,Bill seeks to introduce features to meet abuses both by landlord number of special which occur, committed and by tenant.

It seeks the registration landlords persons are appointed landlords.

a rent book for tenants' exceeding receiving $5 per month.
The person the amount must enter same to represent to provide payments of not so as to ensm·e that responsible It requires a landlord the of Recovery Ordinance in it and tJ1e Ordinance I', That is being done by l 809 T,andlo1·d and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Tr,1a11t Bill 1810 of the Statute think hon.

Members agree that The main is necessary.

to Dis­ is that the laws relating in one Law regulating and tenant.

therein.
therein.

I such a provision objective tress and to Goods are consolidated enactment the relationship Hon.

Mem:bers will notice that there is a comparative which is part of the Objects and, I hope, that table will be of use to particularly Members, table at the end of the Blll the legal Members.

and Reasons, of landlord of a land­ 60 which deals with the position lord who removes any par� of the tenement of the tenancy.
dm·ing the subsistence Then there is a schedule various think I have dealt with the matter rather fully, be now read a second time.

and I now beg to move that the Bill forms which are to be used.

I setting out the Mr. WOOLFORD seconded.


Mr. ,TACOB : I think the Law Officers for endeavouring Bills upon Bills here in an effort should be congratulated to present to improve conditions welfare But, I think, I have already these measures, fit the people, which are intended in the spirit and see that the of the law will stated that to bene­ of the people is being protected.

·not do so.
·not do so.

We have just passed the Rent You wlll see that clause 14-if I may clauses-deals for has to difficulty from distress 20 and 22 provide 16 deals with and attorn­ and the clause as from January 1, 1917, Chapter 17, when there is a That question in this Colony.

for the recovery refer to the more important with things privileged rent, while clause 15 deals with fixtures.

of the tenant.
of the tenant.

It is clear from this clause (15)that fixtures do not belong to the but to the tenant, landlord is retrospective when the Civil Law Ordinance, came into operation.

Clause of attornment, the question ment is only required change of ownership.

often given rise Clauses in cases where the rent of rent by distress does not exceed $40 per month.

At $20 present per month, and these clauses re-enact in the Rent Recovery similar Act, Chapter 92.
Clause 33 deals with dis­ $480 per annum, tress for rent exceeding and only a bailiff to whom a certificate to act as a bailiff has been granted by a Magistrate Clauses clause.

to the landlord's relating for rent, while clause 44 deals with the conditions -the landlord's This clause re-enacts ing to the were passed last year.

tn the letting duty to repair and so on.
36 to 4.3 make provisions may levy distress the provisions relat­ the amount-the right of distress maximum-is provisions of tenement houses which implied letting of houses under this bailiffs, the more important Clauses 50 to 64 deal with miscel­ being for the appaint­ clause 57 which of agents, matters, laneous clause 56 which provides ment of certified clause deals with the registration or acknowl­ 58 which deals with receipts to be given on payment of rent, edgments clause 59 which compels the landlord of every provide a rent book in respect tenant where the rent for the year, month or week does not exeeed $5, and clause to here by cer-tain should be appointed Bill which bristles by our inactivity with all sorts It has been suggested work in the Colony.
I am cer­ have things and par­ in this Colony.

legislation Restriction of difficulties.

that two Rent Assessors and one because the work has increased person cannot do it, but this Landlord and further Tenant Bill is going to increase the judicial tain, sir, that all these COI)ditions been aggravated ticularly here We have passed certain urban housing and about rmal housing, so on, but all these things are still in abey­ is that there is ance.
The whole trouble not a sufficiency materials, of houses and so on.

Although are in tended Lo alleviate and improve have to go a little do so.

conditions fm•ther I am afraid we will of imported these things those difficulties while there is an insufficiency if we want to and local I am not against these measures of support-­ We have to do som.ething -they have my whole-llearted but I do not think they will bring about the desired effect.

more, and I am hoping that something nature will be started early.
a practical people to We can do more by encouraging come in and build their own houses, but measurc.s the restrictive I am afraid that in the Bill that has just gone through and in this one are too heavy.

For instance, certain themselves because hampered the law is there and they will do everything that they are being ways.

They feel that they consider in various are not going to bother to improve present landlords conditions 1811 .f.anlll01'<7 and i9J1.
13 :i.\L\RC'IT, 1',·11a11t Eill 1812 anything Imme­ to protect them.selves.

possible happens they will just put cliately in an appeal.

There are many cases now to be heard by tl�e Appeal Court and, I think, we should approach way.

in a dift'erent these things will go evidence amount of dispatch.

and inviting Bill and, perhaps, will be the also.

The I hope the Select Committee through this Bill as was done ln th'!

case of the Rent Restriction the hon.


the Attorney-General Chairman of this Committee fact is that these things have to be done with a considerable I am opposed to a Select Committee re-.

ceiving appear before it.

I think the people ought to make definite to their representatives and get them to put things before the Committee, individuals mittee at all.
The few Select Committees I have had the honour of serving reported you receive Rent Asses­ sors,, members of the public or else these things should be dealt with urgently.

in a matter of weeks, and whether representations should go before a Select Com­ but I do not think landlords, tenants, people to on have to recover clause 44 ( 4) , it such inmate manner, it.
should be made that if the health of an in­ There shoula be no loopholes damages from but under clause 61 (2) only in i:i cl:mdc:;Une watertight.

in the Bill.

As regards is suggested mate of any house is affected by reason of a breach by the landlord shall be entitled the landlord, the tenant will be liable for certain dam­ ages and not any inmate of the house.
1 think it is clear that if a landlord for damages to any inmate of a house, any inmate should be damages to him for any damage caused to the premises.

Housing Bill-No.

a tenant cannot do certain those are not provided deals with the ordinary landlord.

it is only fair that what applies ernment and Municipal also apply to the premises lords.
for in this Bill which I think to Gov­ buildings land­ of private In the Wortmanville 12 of 1946-I see that but things, �iable to pay is liable should clauses At the present but this Bill seeks to time a from a build­ I am going to refer to certain but I am not going to deal with the Bill clause by clause.

tenant cannot remove fixtures ing he has rented except with the perm1s­ sion of the landlord, give tenants the right to put in fixtures and to remove them.
That will create of opinion many differences end in the law courts.

I think the position should be clearly should get per­ who wants to erect fixtures mission so that when to do so in writing, he removes it would be clear as to what he should take away.

I think, therefore, that clause 15 should be amended so that a tenant can erect fixtures sent of the landlord defined, that a tenant in writing.
which will all with the con­ manner he can in a clandestine but I was told today that one As regards clause 25, I see it is in­ tended that if a tenant is removing his furniture be stopped, can only stop cars and carriages.

tenant chooses and put the furniture cannot stop them.
Therefore, is intended to protect a tenant should not remove his furnitu1·e to hire half a dozen peopie on their backs you ihe landlord if this clause so that If a left clear, it i� stated I think this part for the administration Magistrate.

that he ,·.�hall" I notice that under clause 46 or whoever is going to be He may order certain but that is going to lead to further in the Appeal Court and other Further, the Magistrate of this responsible Bill when it becomes law will have a very wide discretion.
things, litigation people will be involved.

of the Bill should be made especially so as to give the people exactly what discretion they want and very little In certain to the presiding places do such and such a thing, and in other places it is staied that he "may".

I think the word­ ing ought to be such that there will be very little think a new sub-clause-<G>-should inserted to enable a landlord that may be due to him while an appeal is pending from an action in the Magis­ Court.
Such a clause has been put trate's in the Rent Restriction Bill on the recom­ mendation of the Select Committee.

tenant may be given notice to quit and, if the matter goes before a Magistrate, miay decide not to remove even if an order is made against him may also refuse to pay his rent in the meanwhile, an appeal is not and sometimes heard for two or three years.

Certain have been pending appeals In clause 46, I be rent to collect room for appeals.

but to appeal.
but to appeal.

He for over two he A 1813 La ndlorcl ancl ·LEGISLATIVE CouxcIL Tcnamt Bill 1814 long as he pays the rent I would have no objection remain on the to have any right griev­ belonging If a tenant is unable to But if he is should not i-ernain and give notice of appeal.

years and in these circumstances a tenant all on the premises will be able to rema.in that time without paying rent.

A tenant should not be given the right to owe rent and still remain on the premises to the fandlord.
pay his rent he should not of appeal at all.

If he has certain ances and does not want to premises.

his removing so fixed by the Rent Assessor.

unable to pay his rent he on the premises The appeal may take two or three year!'

to be heard, and in the end the tenant it and benefit to the ex­ may withdrnw tent of having lived in the premises all that time without paying Bill should be so worded as to prevent from abusing people who are so inclined the law.
Perhaps that will not suit two or three of my legal friends and I see two of �hem smiling very easy to lodge $25 and hold up a matter sometimes but a tremendous is often caused thereby.

These are the thjngs I will object to so long Member of this Council.

object to the possibility appeals.

be protected.

here, however; now.

rt is I think landlords are entitled any rent.


The as I am a to I am going to of interminable for two or three years, amount of inconvenience The CHAIRMAN: Are you suggesting that Ordinances should no longer be pro­ vided by legal officers of Government ?

Mr. JACOB : No, sir; I am suggesting and in the previous that we should block the loopholes, in that direc­ we aTe making good progress about was tion.
The clause I am talking inserted Bill, and I do not know if I may take credit for making the it adopted.

As suggestion and getting on of a rent book, regards the introducti Only today I think it is a wise suggestion.

certain people to me some of the difficulties experienced my mind, I t-hink, books is a wise suggestion, cases where people are paying small rents.

I trust this Bill will be passed and that the Select Committee into the whole matter.
It is no reflection on those concerned because which are being of rent.

To in this City indicated in the collection of rent the tnirnduction it is a question will be able to go especially ln and so on present - tenancies of rent positions from week to week, if not from changing day to day-and with the measures being state of adopted now I think the affalrs will get worse unless something is done.

It is not the fault of the draughts­ is getting that the position man, however, worse.
The Rent Assessor's Court is blocked told that two Assessors but how that will be done I do not know.

You, sir, have to look after the Administra­ tion; you have legal talent behincl you.

but how you are going to deal with the matter I do not know.

from.

day to day, and we have been should be appointed, Mr. C. V. WIGHT : The hon.

Mem­ but I am making the suggestion why I was laughing.

?

and was the Bill As regards else.


I am not a he was hiding it ourselves, to him why I was laughing then there and courts, if we are going to make the law ber was wondering May I sug·gest He held in his hand a document reading from it, although it behind something prophet, that the same person who spoke to him also spoke to me; I gather that from the trend of his remarks.
itself, and administer would be no use for the law the lawyers would have to become com­ mercial agents perhaps-a business-or there is law, however, erences of oplnion.

of opinion mentary principles, tinue to have them in whatever we do here.

I agree with tbe hon.

Member that this Bill needs Committee, the Com­ mon Law should be set aside.

There Is a l'�ction Commtn Law of England is the Common Law oi' this Colony and, I think, that Is one aspect which should tion and, perhaps, Select Committee.
there will be diff­ We have differences here on some of the most ele­ and we will always con­ in our law which enacts that the but I do not see why become farmers.

�xamination ·by a Select receive careful So long as very lucrative before a Select Committee.

I I would also like to say that I do not a,gree with the hon.
Member who said that he saw no reason why people should give evidence have been a member of Select Committees and I see no reason why peopie, -before, if they so desire, should not to make representations before a Select Committee.

or give evidence That is my be allowed the atten­ the sympathy of the 181,5 La11dlurd ((!Id 13 l\Lmca:, 1!J47.

Tenant BiU 1816 other­ because a however, may find itself details opinion and, unless I am convinced wise, I see no reason to change it.
I can see a disadvantage, Select committee to go into protracted persons who desire before it, but I do not agree with the hon.

Member, who was reading that persons a Committee.

having from those to make representations should not appear before such and report on the to those things being put for• no objection ward for due considerati on.

I do suggest that we have a Select Committee to consider appointed that we had on t.he Rent Restric­ anomalies ticn Ordinance.

desire this Bill.
desire this Bill.

It should have been put forward before, stances also want this Bill urgently.

Committee expeditiously Restrictic;n should sit and report on it as as the one on the Rent The landlords I think the Bill.

Mr. JACOB: I rise to a poi11t of from a document.

but owing to unforeseen circum­ it could not be done.

The tenants from any doc1:1- is here, but I from the Bill.

Surely if any­ for me to prepa1·e Coun­ to do so.

than order !

I was not reading ment at all.


A document was reading one chooses to make a speech in the Legislative cil, he would be quite at liberty Perhaps he will be able to do so better I can; perhaps he will be able to suggest the views which matter.

a particular I should put forward in a docwnent The CHAIRMAN: Perhaps that is view.

the landlords' Mr. WIGHT: I have already that .

I have some idea of the docu­ ment and the views referred to by the hon.

Member.
Member.

stated Mr. JACOB : I rise to a point of order !

May I ask the hon.

Member whether the document hai.'

anything a new clause between he has in his hand to do with the insertion 46 and 47 ?

of Mr. WIGHT : I see that there is about the insertion something after clause 47.

!Perhaps it with the hon.

Member's of a clause I may compare later.

The CHAIRMAN : This discussion between the two hon.

Members reminds me of the days when I was a boy at school and there was a discussion (Laughter).
about cribbing.

Mr. WIGHT: I agree that this but I do not know whether this will decide it.

The hon.

Member matter should be put before a Select Gom­ mittee.

Council thinks it is a breach of privilege for bers of this Council Committee who come before them.

That for the C.ornimittee Committee If I am a member of the Committee in Select from persons is a matter and, no doubt, a Select will give it due consideration.

to take evidence when sitting I have Mem­ The hon.


Member for North Mr. W,OOLFORD : I would like to by what as recovery 's Court has (Mr. Jacob) or suggestion cannot cope with the cases, of the past to put out Court, paradise.

made some that this form is a lawyers' para­ say something of the operation law whieh this Blll is designed of action.

Western District reference of legislation dise.

I have no doubt that as a layman he has come to that conclusion he has heard.
As the result of the cases that go before the Rent Assessor's it is thought to be a lawyers' The Magistrate and any lawyer who can afford to go to the Rent Assessor to appear there so often iu a matter.

lt has never been the practice for lawyers to ap13ear of possession in such matters rooms.

Very rarely of tenement in the have course of my fifty years' experience I ever appeared If the hon.

Member goes to the Police Court would find a long line of people waiting for the Magistrate monses.
I know peculiarly of signing possesssion can easily be done by a clerk of istrate the Magistrates' Office.

Why that has never been done fias always been a wonder to me.

Cases of importance delayed It is or more merely to sign warrants.

done perfunctorily.

that the hon.

the Attorney-General know that this additional not increase but it will simply mean that he will do, if he is allowed, has been doing.

In a good many cases there has never been any necessity Magistrate for a to look into the complaints.
that in order should will in such matters.

he their sum­ well the duty have been takes an hour the same work that he the Magistrate legislation warrants by the Mag­ just to initial I mention whilst the work of the Magistrate, 1817 J,cmclionl and LEGISLA'l'IVE COtJN"OIL Most landlords are represented by pro­ This is a especially duty to be there The hon.

Member we have had evidence and tenant, before us as and occa­ he employs a lawyer.
This is not of this City their rents through agents and, for them there is no necessity agents, and most landlords collect therefore, to attend Court and they do not attend.

In other cases such as rent assessment cases, it is the landlord's and to defend in the matter, sionally a lawyers' Bill at all.

must get that out of his mind.

Bill that will help the poor people who occupy a tenaflCY, those who pa.y rent.
That Rent Book is mo> sugges­ tion, and it is going to be a valuable tection for both landlord because the result of which the Committee felt very strongly who that these poor people, are in occupation of premises, their rents but had not a receipt and on examination we saw hundreds relating paid.

I know that, and as a result of that we examination and were able to get inferential that evidence those people had paid their rent other­ wise they would have been turned out.

The hon.
The hon.

Nominated Member, Mr. Critch­ low, knows that perfectly M'embers to allow that provision Rent Book to remain.

a book and does not depend on a receipt; if he loses that book he loses his heritage.

Therefore to keep that book and not depend on the landlord and not give receipts.

of the counterfoils to the rents to produce his counterfoils with our experience he should be most anxious had paid to show, The tenant is given well.

I ask hon.
I ask hon.

_for a I only raise that so that there should which the hon.

Member be­ be no mass examination of the people by the Committee thinks is the best way.

The value of a Select Committee is that it has power to summon anybody in this community a·n oa.th.

It is fore it and to administer privilege absurd to think that the of a Select Committee in such can be dismissed a way.

I speak qui.te regrettingly the last Committee, consider vestigation, the hon.
the Attorney-General would not like me to say it-there were those who were in a position to gi:ve valuable infoon­ ation and they did not give it.

The hon.

not because the report valuable but what I know - although or the in­ I do not about -General of a Selec·t the truth.

Therefore' I knows that I am said the Attorney speaking that they took no evidence but just sub­ mitted their own views.

That is why I am opposing the appo-intment Committee again.

There is no necessity for it on a Bill of this kind.
You should accept my experience which is honestly out a.ny idea of that because has any interest appear as it costs them little and, therefore, dise.

It is largely a great extent the Committee's recom­ are introduced in this Bill.

mendations The parties to appear it is not a lawyer's para­ m atter, and to I am not doing I am a lawyer.

No lawyer given and given with­ in this Bill.

in the matter, a.dvantage.

a social There is one thing.

The hon.


Mem­ ac­ impose to get an im­ or cases in legislation from levying mistaken·.

has been told, or assist the tenant in not pay­ and ev.en if he in dis­ if a person ls in arrears, ber seems to think that appeals some impediment on the occupation of premises ing his rent.

He is entirely These are cases for possession which the tenants are sued for rent.
Under the present two weeks or two months cording to the nature of tenancy, the landlord has the right mediate writ of execution, does he is prevented tress.

The hon.

Member seems to think, that ·means and probably the tenant can sit down ad infi.nitum and not pay rent until the appeal is heard.

I can assure him that cannot happen.

The tenant has to continue which is due and payable, ing what is the difference landlord there is no law which makes it anything but obligatory his rent.
In other words, the · landlord does not am surprised at the hon.

Member sug­ gesting fecting the ip of people there should be no appeal.

I always thought he had very wide so_ciallstic sympathies.

to pay his rent notwithstand­ between the and the tenant.

In other words, suffer by the right of appeal.

that in a matter of this kind af­ on the tenant not to pay relationsh personal I Mr. JACOB: Ag·ain I say the hon.

Men,ber has not understood me.


Mr. WOOLFORD : Please do not sug­ gest in a matter of this kind there should be any right of appeal, because the hon.

1819 J,n11dlotd and 13 MARCH, 1947.

Tenant Bill 1820 in this further.

I think, will and properly by any other name their personal to a Committee.

them to the hon.

the law some of the things My recollection property are say, our There are certain provisions I there is any necessity for it.

will not support of a Select Committee.


is this : It to Members to know the meet­ I think some other Members may have a try at this kind of The last Committee had at with the Member has been misinformed about some case.

There are no appeals on matters of this kind.

I will not delay the Council any I do ask that the hon.

the Attorney-General the suggestion do not t.hink I think you should have the ordinary committee.
will be a surprise how very few tenants attended ings of that Committee, because the only thing they suffer really Is the fact that under the present which are subject to levy, I am sorry to people are so poor.

It Is perfectly true what I am.

g·oing to say.

In these days, pe1,haps not so much today, the only things the landlords things precluded law, such as bed, tools, utensils, etc.

Therefore not get the tenants out.


On the other hand, the tenants find It very difficult get premises pay the rent in advance.

We will not go into details, the provisions t.ion very simple on both sides.
Mr. GONSALVES Bill-I indicated Attorney-General-which, need consideration, and if it is the desire of Government, as I said on the previous Bill, to have time saved in getting those clauses hammered out, the only way it can be conveniently done is by having it referred If Members do not like the word "Select," call the committee Personally of Council legislation.

short notice to attend meetings idea of getting· as possible.
a telephone call telling Attorney-General personally attending certain clauses consideration.

President intimated persons every week at the Magistrates' Court wlth applications for possession.

Like m.yself on many occasions I have heard the view expressed hardly reasonable waiting cause the Magistrates ments before them in respect who owed two months' rent or had been given notice to leave and would not leave the premises.
was waiting would like to be relieved from these meetings, but there are in the Bill which need The hon.

the Deputy about the long line of If you were not there you got you that the on you.
I have to levy on are the under the they cannot afford to In Court for cases to be tried, of this Bill make the posi­ they cannot levy and they can­ had to initial docu­ but I happen to know that the Bill through as early from distress : I hl\Ve heard of persons bringing that it was because be­ to to have practitioners enabled is that the "buck" is made to Government matt�r like this whose recom­ us to have this Bill, passed on.
A suggestion to tackle and I would like to on having suc­ one of its officers, who reference this Bill at last, and I join in that comp1i­ ment to Government.

compliment Government ceeded in getting ·was Chairman of the Committee on an important mendations to draft -the Bill before he left the Colony.

The usual practice usually and left for the other fellow put into shape.
In this case, Government was able to get the man who had the re­ sponsibility of investig·ating the matter to draft the Bill and leave it behind with such notes and comments as he had.

It is only right that he should have been able to do it, as he was Chairman of the Committee taken by the Committee which were being considered.

I would like to offer Government compliment on having succeeded direction.
and had the evidence on the various points is made I have always advocated that the orders, where there but where any legal Chief Clerk, who is a Justice of the Peace, should be the person to sig-i1 and con­ sider those applications for possession.

I had the further view that he should be in a position as a Justice of the Peace to make the order for possession are consent -question cation then it should be Magistrate Formal application long as on the face of the document it appears the Clerk.
The agent of the landlord the one who Is taking the responsibility for swearing falsely That may well be amended in the Ordin- arises with regard to the appli­ transferred for him to try the issue.

may be dealt with by is which is perjury.

for distress to be valid, even, as to the Therefore further in that.

ance and so g'ive relief In practice in that direction.

today these applications are l 821Lamllorcl and LEGTST.u\TTVE COUNCIL 1'rnant Bill 1822 Why to do it, those to warrants.
heard once a week-on Wednesdays.

should it be once a week only ?

If the Chief Clerk has authority can be taken at any time.

The applications I think a same thing applies good deal of time would be saved if that is and given effect to, with many considered which can be made.

It other suggestions is extremely up in Council have all Members of Council speaking as to whether the clause should be amended or not.

I certainly the suggestion to a Committee.

done.


to move an amendment and I do think that should be that this matter be referred when a clause comes agree with difficult and evidence but with the understanding that this Bill goes to a Select For that reason I will support the suggestion Committee, that the Tenants at Will Ordinance be examined sugar estates' managers, workers in order to arrive at a common understanding strictly things on the sugar estates Bill does not affect them.
amongst them, because I do not like the tenor of taken from the drivers and at all.

This speaking should but I am disappointed previously indeed, of them who of landlord m,entioned Bill to and I thought it would have been com­ Mr. EDUN: It has taken this Govern­ ment pretty nearly seven years to bring forth this Bill.

When the hon.

the Attorney-General that it would be a comprehensive deal with the relationship tenant, prehensive in not finding that.
This Bill does affect the tenant at will, thousands are living on the sugar estates Colony.

What I find in this Colony is the only to deal with city, towns and tendency villages plantations human nature is what it is, human is the same, and there shall be behaviour in order to be need for these measures between man and man, but in equitable I find is simply this this Bill what with but two-fifths British fifths alone to themselves.

this Government.
this Government.

has escaped Guiana and leaves the other three- Perhaps it to themselves.

So long as of this : It deals of of the population and to leave the settlements and I am a layman and not a lawyer, but to private of the clauses give equitable the landlords, consideration of the population are very much needed in I happen to read through the provisions and to see many many things there which ought to be amended.

I think certain amendments order to As we go along in tenants altogether.
I shall be the examination amendments, as far certain able to suggest to the as I see, which will be beneficial tenant.

I do not want to deal inequitably but in the case of against the land­ two sections lords are better off.

It is a question of ac­ for human beings on the one commodation on the other motivation hand and hand.

Wby have hon.
Wby have hon.

Members of this bow to effect accom­ Council for a vast number of people but modation for a few who can afford to buy properties and rent them out to their fellowman ?

I in this one fact am very much disappointed here that will give some that I see nothing measure of relief to three-fifths of the and I repeat of this country, population that in order to get the attention of Gov­ ernment.

I support the idea of a Select Committee out and provision lationship of the population.
portant those remarks I will not say more until are examined.

the clauses and, I hope, it will be broadened the re­ made to control between these two very im­ not to consider sections With One reads day after day the frequent of the eviction on sugar estates Why should not Govern­ Mr. LEE : Your Excellency, if I get in the Ordinance at will in order to bring an occurence of employees.
ment think of providing for the tenants equitable between tionship no provision of the population think, Committee those people.

Evictions on sugar estates disorders, it has escaped measure of solution landlord here to deal with three-fifths in the rela­ and tenant?

I see an indication there will be appointed I would not say which I heartily much because I have a letter from the Trades Union Council which asks me to and which I request to provide amelioration for will forward to the Select Committee.
If there is no such indication to address amendments.

this Bill ought to go back to a Select that I cannot comprehend the Chair in respect as to result in grave of Government.

are so frequent of this Colony and, I the attention Amendments I would have support, from the Chair as to whether certain of those why a Select Committee, 1823 R .e ,S1 '.,q T11 R e P thtl Council what -other A R1crr, 1·1 e1· f e until 2 p.m. tomorrow E Members have to say.
position 1 3 M dJ· u o a to and hear public do not know exactly f ••p1· 11 a t io i D S 1947 11 ° T N E Govt.

Jl!f ed.

Off iccrs 1824 guided as to what is going to happen.

The what is the and are very much concerned about fter­ you could make some it.

I would be glad If either this a noon or tomorrow announcement relieving matter.

, as it would go a good way in the anxiety of the public In this Further deferred.

consideration of the Bill RESIQNATIO� OP GOVERKMENT MEDICAL OFFICERS.
Mr. L E : I would like to know whether In respect of the Government can make an announcement E or give some explanation situation the Doctors between Hospitals and Government.

are very much concerned who have friends at the 'Public would like some Government ment i n respect of the matter so as to be at the Public The public those , especially as patients They pronounce­ and relatives at present.

Hospital The PRESIDENT : I am prepared to The tomorrow.
some statement make an announcement Doctors are publishing through the B.P.I.

and the hon.

Member will be able to see what they have to say.

I will make a statement, whether but I cannot say any anxiety.

it will relieve The Council March, 1947, at 2 p.m. adjourned to Friday, 14th