Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698069314019.pdf (Guyana)
- ·---- -----��-'- 747 748 THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE SECOND SESSION (1959-60) OF THE FfRST LEGISLATURE OF THE WEST INDIES, CONSTITUTED UNDER THE WEST INDIES (FEDERATION) ORDER IN COUNCIL, 1957.

11th Sitting Monday, 7th December, 1959 HOUSE OF Dr. Radix : With your kind per­ mission, REPRESENTATIVES reply to the statement :.\finistcr.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to of the Prime The House met at 2.30 p.m. Prayers [:\IR.
SPEAKER in the Chair] Mr. Speake1·: You want to make a remark ?

OATH OF ALLEGIANCE Mr. James Nathaniel Member for Montserrat, Edwards, took Alternate and subscribed and was welcomed Speaker.

the Oath of Allegiance to the House by Mr. welcome the statement that he intends shortly.

that this visit is long overdue.

D1·.

Radix: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I must heartily of the Prime Minister visit my Constituency who believes I believe will go a long-way towards eral idea.
his visit to the snrnilcr selling to I am one the fed­ Territories WINDWARD ISLANDS M:r. Sinanan: Have you asked the Visit by Prime Minister �fr.

Speaker, of the House being The Prime Minister: I wish to inform hon.

Members that, sub­ jt•ct to the business completed in time, I shall be Grenada on the 17th December.

proceed 20th and return to Barbados I shall arrange Islands to add that I am fitting in all these visits as early as possible other duties.

on the 23rd.
on the 23rd.

a visit to the Leeward from Grenada to St. Lucia on the as soon as possible with my consistent in 1960.

I wish Prime Minister banana boat ?

if he is travelling in a DEFENCE (AMENDMENT) BILL To "amend the Defence Act, 1958," pre­ ancl read a visiting I shall sented by the Prime :\1inister First time.
SPEECH GOVERNOR-GENERAL'S Debate on the Address Order read for resumption of debate on the following Prime Minister 1050 - Motion moved by the Deputy on the 18th November, 749 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 750 Monday, 7th December, 1959 "That a Message His Excellency Gracious the Legislature.
of Thanks be presented the Governor-General to both Houses of Speech delivered for h1s to - the wonderful the West India Regiment deportment, efficiency those men and all that went with that Parade was a wonderful exhibition of what we can produce in men.

and smartness of J a­ but that we are not supposed, Archdeacon Lennon (Middlesex, on our side some Members, but I maica): Mr. Speaker, of us seem to be silent would like to say it is not so much that we are silent or prepared, orders.
We are under orders and when anyone has said something already, then we need not say anything more whether he be an Archdeacon else.

We are orderly him who gives them.

people and take orders from to say anything or anything without I would like to see more men from differ­ for this fine-looking nothing being recruited There are many more ent Territories g1·eat venture.
young men around - I see so many lusty, strong, practically time which conld be better trained gest not only that more men be recruited from the different ter military in schools but that bet­ be given our scholars used in being I would sug­ for military service.

Territories and colleges.

training young men who have to do, wasting their It is good to listen.

It is good to listen, I - I believe we learn quite a lot.

Many for if we listen of us say quite a lot and don't take time to listen.
lieve there is no need doing anything that anyone can do for me, and so I save my time and energy to do something that he couldn't in listening, do for me.

and I be­ When we see the slackness of discipline ii many of these young people were in some of our schools, the disorder and so on, we seem to think that it would be better trained they should go, for we know that when they grow older they will not d�part from it.
from their childhood, in the way This afternoon we are here to give for the marvellous to us.

It is full thanks for the Gracious Speech from the Throne.

First of all, I want to say a big "thank you" to His Excellency the Governor-General Speech he read so nicely of food for thought will be put into action together gestions afternoon.

generally.

fically.

abont the West India Regiment.


I am going to speak a bit Others will speak most speci­ I want first of all to say something which we will and we hope that it put np here this with sug­ Sometime last month the Governor-­ General to see the passing­ out parade of the first batch of recruits was in Jamaica of And so I would snggest that in The military training be given to West In<lies, more of our young men - The Prime Minister: throats!
cut one another's So that they Archdeacon Lennon : -so that they would be more orderly in time to come.

I would like to say something about Education in The West Indies very much; I didn't see education.

is not stressed much of it in the Throne Sneech, I think it is embodied to see the activity Social Affairs and we are very glad of our Minister for embodies whose Portfolio thougl-> -1-- ------·---- 751 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 752 Monday, 7th December, 1959 education.
I know she is interested and I know that everything will be done to fur ther this subject.

We should like to see it embodied not only in Social Servces but we should like to see a special Ministry of Education and we would like to see in our Federal Parliamnet a Minister of Educa tion .
job the I would like to ask what is being done about the Federal Education Adviser: that h e came I s he doing down here to do, or is he more like clerk without an opportunity of a the necessary going around giving all help that can be given and that is so much needed in this Federation ?

Is he being used in that way ?

He could go around and give much wonderful help; special students could be selected for Col leges and for our University.
I think if we use him in that direction - free to go about, free to act, free to can·y out the great work which we thought he came down here to do, I think he would be mak ing a wonderful contribution to the Fed eration as a whole.

We talk a lot about education in The West Indies.

We think of the other places of the world, we think of Ghana and Nigeria and of the other places that have gone forward.

We think they have paid better attention to education than we pay today.
Speaking from experience gained in Africa for many years, I know of the way in which students have been gath ered from different tribes and sent to the different parts of the world - United States, United Kingdom, India, and other places.

Today we see the result of that.

Ghana has received independence, a young country comparatively to some of the West Indian islands.

It was West Indians who went out there and helped them to become what they are, and I am speaking from experience.
Take Nigeria : Nigeria in a very little while will become an independent nation - this time next year.

West Indians have helped to make them what they are or will be.

I think men like Blackett from Barbados - it was in the Ibo country in Nigeria that Blackett was the founder of education.

Then take men like Binger, Brown and Llewellyn.

We think also of Thompson, Hart, Jones, Simpson and others.
I can tell you that these people, with some of us, have played a wonderful part to put Nigeria and Ghana on the map.

I think if we would give more space, more time to education, to help the young promising youths so that they may go not only to be trained by other people, but as Unit Territories in the F ederation to send out promising students to be trained, then they would be able to come back to us and help us to prepare this great nation.

I wish also to touch on the Federal Capital.


I touch on it because it seems to have been put in abeyance and we do not even know where we are.

It is time that the people of the Federation know where this capital is going to be built, when it is going to be built, so that we may live to see the Capital established if we cannot have it in Trindad in connection with which there seems to be some difficulty.

We love Tri nidad; we are here.

Is this the Federal Capital, Port-of-Spain?


Or are we going to have a place in Trinidad that we can say is the Federal Capital?

And if we cannot ha vc it here in Trinidad, well then Trinidad and Tobago are considered one Territory, and I understand that Tobago is as beau- ,,,.... ~ 753 Governor-General's S1>eech- D ebate on the A.ddress 754 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [ARCHDEACON LENNONj , t iful a place as Trindad, and from the fact that from a tourist point of view.
much land has been acqu ired there to make tha·t place more important, I think T ri nidad would not hesitate, would not bcgrndgc the fact that Toba~o has the Capital.

We want to se~ the Capital somewhere, some time and righ t now as early as possible.

If we cannot h ave t his, let us try a place like Antigua.

Antigua is more central fo r the Capital, and I will say, "'.\Ir.

Speaker!
Speaker!

that we would n ot care where t he Capital is to be built, but we want to sec t he Capital, and let it be b uilt in Trinidad or T obago or anywh ere else - we would not be Yery keen to have it in Jamaica because .Jamaica is t he Capital of '17,c West Indies already.

• ~ With regard to the coming visit of t he Princess Royal.

'\Ve w::111t t o sny t hat we welcome it.
So much has been contributed by t hese Royal visi ts to The West Indies that I think the visit of the P rincess Roya l would be a great asset, and we look for ward t o it with pleasme, and hope that she will h ave a renl royal tim e. With regard t o the F ederation, I would like to read again the opening words of this great Speech from the Thorne: "Federation as an institution is a cho.llenge to the ingenuity and tolerance of a people, and the young Federation of The West Indies is no exception to that challenge.
Since my Govern ment assumed office 19 m onths ago, I and my Ministers have concerned ourselves with estab lishing the Federal idea both at home and abroad."

tion is someth ing new, and many of u s are lookiug forward very much to seeing t he fruits before we do some sowing.

This is a great venture, so let us have faith i11 this venture because it ls not only something which concerns man or some thing conceived by man but also something in t hl' nutnrc of a God-planned arrange ment.
vVe as Members of the Federation are sometimes inclined to think that we are here on our own effort and w9 giYe very little thought in this new movement to the big part God has to play.

E ven at the beginning of a Sitting, such a~ we began this afternoon, we have prayers, conducted by the Speaker.

Without God we can do noth ing.


I want to make this point very plain and strong because if we set a better l'xamplc while we are h ere and let every thing be done decently and in order, we would be mak ing a better contribution to t he F ederation.

I want to say something about the v isits of om Prime l\finist er and the Leader of the Opposition to Australia.

We are very pleased to see that they have been able to come back t o us in peace, and we are sorry t hat the Prime M inist9r was not very wt'll.
But I would like to make note of an article that was p ublish ed in Satm day's newspaper which was a report of whn t the Lender of the Opposition has written and sa id in Australia.

I t was some thing worthwhile, :rnd he mad1 a wonder ful C'On trihu tion to F ederation.

I say this, Sir, because we hear so much today about Federation.

both for a nd against it.


But whether we are for or :ig:1inst , let us remember that this Federa- Let us ha vc faith in this great venture, and let us not talk about small ot· large island because whether we are small or large, we are one people.

England is a ..,..... -- --,, 155 Governor-Ge11eral's Speech- D ebate 0 11 t he ,lddress 756 Monday, 7th December, 1959 ··whe re comparatively small coun try yet we ha vc seen t he gr eatness th ey have ga ined for th emsleves.
When I was in Africa some .vears ago, and spoke about Jamaica.

people used is to ask me, Jamaica ?"

They would take me to a map of the world, and I would look for the W estern H emisphere, and t hen Cuba, and then under Cuba I would sec a little riot.

That was Jamaica.

Then there wo uld be laughter.

On those occasions I would be speaking to people from a coun tr~' with 35,000,000 people.

In J anrnicn we do not have 2,000,000.


T oday we talk about snrn II i:;land a nd say this one is large and th a t one is small .

Let us cease to talk about this and give everyone its due.

From th e small island of St. Lucia we have the firs t West Indian Principal of the Universit)· College of T he West Indies and I think we have had in Jamaica the first West India n-born Chief Justice, Sir John Carberry.
Whether it is Jamaica or St. Lucia, or that island or the other, we nre in for a wonderful Federation.

L et 11 s make it a success.

I say t hanks for this great Speech.

God save the Queen.

3.05 p.m. Mr. Carrott (Antigua): Mr. Speaker, I want first to congratulate th e F edera l Government because no one can doubt the Federation is definitely ga ining inter national status.

From the very moment we said, "Go", if nothing else has been done, the Federation was recognised abroad.
I com e now to the Ministers wh o took part th e Commonwealth E conomic Confcrenc<?..

I think this House will agree in wit h m e that a naked political F ederation would be of no use to the people of The West Indies.

It must go h and-in-han cl with economic development.

I think we h ave to congrat ulate the delegation that went t o L ondon t o t h e econom ic exercises.

I think we have seen signs of progress.


A team of industrialists came to The West Indies to discuss m at I ters of importa nce to th e Federation.

sincerely hope t hat th e :.\1 ission will bear fruit.

take part in I come now, ::\Ir.

Speaker, to t he Con stitutiona l changes that are t aking place in other parts of The W est Indies, moreso in the smaller Islands of the F ederation .
It is m y opinion that the furth er Con stitutional changes forthcoming t he Leeward and Windward I sla nds will bring the people of gr eater r esponsibility t hat th e those areas.

I sincerely hope people of the Windward and Leeward I slands will live up to th eir responsibilities an d give the people of these areas proper Governm ent in action.

to in I am deeply disappo inted with t he Grants tha t have been obtained so far.
I am m oreso disappointed that the Federal Government did not press for a g rant for itself.

The fo rty-three million dollars which has been given to the F ederal Government for t11e 10 U nit Territories of the Federa t ion, is, in my submission, totally inade quate.

I feel that, as a gcs tme, t ht' British Government should have given at least $50,000,0{)0 to the F edera l Government - Dr. Duhaney : Coming near t o us !

Mr. Carrott : - M!l,000,000 given to F ederation.


in addition t o th e Units of the the - <I l ~ l 757 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 758 Monday, 7th December, 1959 lMR.

CARROTT] Mr. Speaker, the Federal Government are in need of their own funds to carry out experiments, etc., in the Unit Territories.
I was hoping that within the first 5 years the Federal Government would have so made an impression on the Units as far as economic development is concerned that the people themselves would have a feeling that they were federated for a purpose.

But instead we see the Unit Territories are re sponsible for their own development.
There is no reason why the Federal Government should not have funds at their disposal to go into a Territory or Territories and carry out certain experiments, i.e., putting down a factory, etc.

That, in my opinion, would be a means of building up the confidence of the people in the federated area.

Mr. Speaker, I am not one of those who feel that the British Government is doing its utmost.

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear!


Mr. Carrott: They have forced these Territories into a kind of mono-culture for years, and no onP.

can doubt - Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): H ear, hear!

Mr. Carrott : - that it is the British Government themselves who have set the kind of economy that our people should live on- Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear!

Mr. Carrott : - and it is their duty, at this time when we are laying the foundation of our Nation, to assist us.
Mr. Speaker, jmt a few months ago there were disturbances in <;:yprus, and the British Government came across with £38,000,000.

Mr. Sinanan : What about the Middle East?

Mr. Carrott: However, the people of Cyprus did not accept the amount.

They were fighting for their independence and no amount of money could induce them.

I feel at this stage that the Federal Government still has it in its power to put up a militant fight for additional grants from the British Government.
If for over three hundred years we are going to be afraid to demand our equal rights, then we are not fit to be in this Parlia ment.

Mr. Hill : Hear, hear !

!

The Prime Minister : You are the only person who said "Hear, hear" !

Mr. Hill : Anything he says is right.

Antigua cannot be w-rong !

Mr. Carrott: I hope that in the future we would be able to demand those rights.
And I repeat that if we are not sufficiently influential to put up a militant case for additional grants to help these impover ished Territories, then we are not fit to be in this Parliament.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the Federal Government has also paid attention to the Labour Movements - Mr. Hill : What are yoµ doing over there?
k... i - - ~--, 759 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 760 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Mr. Can-ott : - because, after all, whatever political prosperity we are en joying in this House and elsewhere has been brought about by the Labour Move ments in the Caribbean.

in the past.

Extensive research is most necessary if we are to produce more from our lands.

Mr. Speaker, before I take my seat - Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear!


Mr. Carrott: For it was they who pioneered the way; they are the ones who have broken the bottle-necks.

I am glad that the Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs is taking cognisance of that fact.

I am glad that in some of the islands we are carrying out courses where employers and employees can meet to gether on one common ground.
Because I feel that the days are passed when em ployers should talk at employees; the time has come when employers should talk with their employees and not at them.

If that could be assured, Mr. Speaker, Labour in The \Vest Indies would be finding its true position.

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear!

The Prime Minister: All those em ployers over there are cheering.
Mr. Carxott: Mr. Speaker, when it comes to the question of Tourism, we are grateful to the M inister of Trade and Industry that in such a short time he discovered that it was essential for him to make a complete survey of the tourist potentials in the Caribbean.

But, Mr. Speaker, while we are building up the Tour ist Trade we should always realise that Agricultlllre still forms the basis of our economy, and we should not for one mo ment overlook the part Agrculture played Mr. Hill : Oh no !

Talk on.
Talk on.

H on.

Members (Opposition Benches): Yes, talk on.

Let us hear you.

Mr. Carrott: - let me say that while we are planning let us not just plan for the present, but be concerned with the rising population in our country.

In plan ning, see to it that everything we are going to do must have relation with future population growth.

It would be unfair if I did not say some thing about the M inistry of Communica tions and Works.
All of us are aware that without proper communications, whether in road transport or air services or on the sea, a Federation of this kind, where we are not in one land mass, would be impossible to operate, and I think that the Ministry of Communications and Works did a very good job.

As a Minister, he has visited every Unit of the Federa tion and I think that his discussions with fellow-Ministers of the Territories have been a source of inspiration to them.
Lastly, Mr. Speaker, I would like to especally inform Members of this House - that through the the Jamaica Members - cooperation of the Minister of Communica tions and Works, on their way to Trinidad for the next Sitting, when they land in Antigua they will be landing at the new air terminal building.
As one of the small Units of the F ederation we are concerned about the Federation being self-supporting and I think it is the opinion of all of us that it I J ~ p 7 61 Governor-Gen eral's S71eecli- D ebcite on the Address 762 M onday, 7th December, 1959 0I l~In.

CARHOTT must Le self-supporting as quickly as possible.

I hope t hat wherever we on this s:cll' o-f t he House can use our influence we would t r,v to make our influence felt for the good of t he F ederation.

to 1\fr.
to 1\fr.

Speaker, I want this t o go home t o the Government, which is our Govern ment , and I am repeating myself at this stage by sayi ng t hat it is their duty at this stage of the Federat ion to put up a fresh t he Colonial Office for more case C.D.

& W .

grants.

Further disturbances are in sight because of the small amounts ,,·hich are handed out to the Units; and !e l me say t hat many of the Unit Terri tories balancing their budgets are doing so the expense of human suffering.
at Poverty is still raging in The W est Indies.

We are still in need of more houses, more roads a nd, lastly, which is more import ant, a militant economic plan for The West I ndies.

t o M:r. Joseph (San F ernando-Naparima, if I were a Trinidad) : M r. Speaker, this H ouse I would have stranger thought that the speech made by the last speaker (Mr. Carrott) was one on behalf of the Opposition .

He has so clearly and concisely outlined our views that we are apt to feel that the hon.
Gent leman is planning a transfer of seats.

Nevert heless, I would like to congrat ulate him on what is undoubtedly a level-headed speech.

To me this debate is an anti-climax.


It is un fortunate t hat we have to debate the T hrone Speech so early after the debate on the B udget, because so many 1\l[embers of this House like to exercise themselves in the ar t of repetition on ordinary mat- ters t hat this gives them an excellent op- port uni ty of saying what they have said on the Budget Speech about eight or ten times.
I am speaking now not as ,, Member of the Opposit ion - I am spe11,king as a iVfember of this House, and when I say a M ember of this H ouse, I mean bot h sides of t he Table.

But since cust om and tradi tion require us to debate the Throne Speech, there are t wo points on which we should either say very little or nothing at all or repeat ourselves.

In debating this Speech I think it is fitting for us t o review what transpired during the past year, and to $ee what has been planned for the future.
This Speech from t he Throne was similltr in many respects to the speech made p y the Min ister u.f Finance, and indeed it is similar t o t he speech made by a few of the hon.

M inist ers when they replied to speeches made b y M embers of the Opposition.

The Prime Minister : What's wrong wit h that?

Mr .

Joseph: I wa nt t o take this op portunity of extending my congratulations to t he Archdeacon who, I think, today made his first real speech in this House.
He has kept his reputation high and made a most brilliant speech - not surprising, since it was by a Member on this side of the H ouse.

I am reminded that it is his second speech.

I think it is an excellent speech and one for which we ought to con gratulate him very sincerely.

The Prime Minister : Congratulate J amaica.


~ ....... ---.- - -,_.., ·1 '163 Governor-General's S71eech- )Jebate on the Address 764 Monday, 7th Decernber, 1959 Mr. Joseph: Mr. Speaker, in his Speech from the Thrnne, the Governor General started by saying - "Federation as an institution is a challenge to the ingenuity and tolerance of a people, and the young Federation of The West Indies is no exception to that challenge."

We have accepted that.


We, the people of The West Indies, have accepted that chal lenge and I say in all sincereity that the .Federation of The West Indies has done excec<lingly well during the 19 months of its existence.

Hon.

Members (Government Benches): Hear, hear!

The Prime Minister: Tell that to Densham.

Mr. Joseph: I am not one of those who would set out to criticise the Federa tion merely to score a political point on the Government.
I feel that this is our Federation, as I said in the debate on the Budget Speech.

A failure of the Federa tion is not a failure for the governing body o-r the Government; it is a failure for the people of The West Indies and we on this side who believe in Federation feel - and we think that the Government side must feel - that we have made a useful contri bution in assisting the Government in making the success that has been made of t he Federation during the last 19 months.
As the Archdeacon - Mr. Speaker : Who is the Archdeacon, the hon.

Member for Middlesex ?

Mr. Joseph : As the hon.

Member for ;\liddlesex so rigl1tly said, we should try to do away with this small Island talk, because each of us is as large .. .

.

Hon.

Member : As Barbados ?

Mr. Joseph : May be large in intelli gence, may be large in area compared to the oth er Colonies.

But, Mr. Speaker, I believe we should try and get away from this insularity.
Let us forget completely what race you belong to and set out to work and to bring this Federation to the success we would all like to see it.

No Federation - I say so with all the seriousness at my command - has started off with more goodwill and more friends on its side tha n this West Indies Federation; and if we are to exploit that goodwill and that fri endship which are being sh own u s on all sides, and if we are to conduct our business as we have been conducting it in the pa~t l!)
months, I am sure we will record points much faster t han any of t he Federations that have been created b efore us.

to the improvement of One part of the Governor-General's Speech which pleases me very much is the reference the Migrant Services in the United Kingdom.

Mr. Speaker, this is a most worthwhile It is appalling for us to know service.

that in the United Kingdom there are so many West Indians standing in need of advice, assistance and guidance.
The strengthening of the Migrant Service is something which will bring more happiness to the people resident in the United King dom, w·ho have gone there for employ ment or for studies.

But more than that, this service will bring a considerable amount of goodwill towards the Federa tion, and the strengthening of t he Service is a most noteworthy thing on the part of the Federal Government.

j ...J 765 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 766 ~ Monday, 7th December, 1959 ['.'lifR.
JOSEPH] The Member for Middlesex will be happy to learn that very often representa tives of this Service see to it that West Indians do not only get employment and State assistance but that they also attend religious services regularly.

During the early part of this year, I was away from the Territory but I understand that at that time an appointment was made.

I do not know what the post is - a Consular officer of the Federal Govern ment.

I think the Governor-General said "!


and my Ministers have concerned ourselves with establishing the Federal idea both at home and abroad."

I woulu like to feel that this Government is prepared to collate the ideas of all Members of this House, to federate the talent to be found on both sides of the House; in fact, the entire Caribbean, in order to make Federation the success we all want it to be.
I believe I can take a very appropriate part in the success of Federation by giving the lie to the rumour which has been circulating for too long a period of time.

Some people have given the outside world the idea that there is a particular section of people in Trinidad who are anti-federationists.

I have been associated with the people referred to in this rumour for over twenty years in my public life.
During that time I remember the late Captain Cipriani whom both sides of this House recognise as one of the greatest federationists The West Indies has had; and Captain Cipriani's three most able lieutenants were the late T. Albert Marryshow, the late Timothy Roodal and the late Sarran Teelucksingh.
I know that both Mr. Roodal and Mr. Teelucksingh gave valuable service to the cause of Fed- ation as leaders of the Indian community in Trinidad especially by instiliing Federa tion in the hearts of their people.

It is therefore unkind for any individual, for the sake of scoring a cheap political point, to say that the East Indian community of Trinidad is against Federation .

A few days ago one of our Members was asked, "Are the East Indian people in Trinidad still against Federation ?"
That was asked by a foreign journ[l.list.

I was asked the same question three or four times when I was in the Unit¢d Kingdom - whether it is a fact that the East In dians in Trinidad are against Federation.

We are trying t o forget the question of whether you are East Indian or Afro-West Indian.

I do not want to know that anyone refers to me as a Syrian or my friends as Chinese or Indian.

I am against even being referred to at this stage as a Trinidadian.
I am W i:!St Indian and the colour of my skin or the texture of my hair has nothing at all to do with it.

I The Governor-General said in his Speech- like "The first consular officer of the Federal Government assumed office in June as a mem ber of the staff of Her Majesty'.s Embassy 1n Caracas, and with a special responsibility for West Indian affairs."
I would to know, Mr. Speaker, whether this appointment was made by The West Indies, whether this officer is responsible to The West Indies Govern ment, the Territorial Government or the British Government ?

I wovld like to know whether, as our representative, he will submit annual reports to this hon.
House, whether he would take up the case of all West Indians in Caracas and whether he has been advised to take steps to see I - 767 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 768 Monday, 7th December, 1959 that the Immigration laws of Venezuela are relaxed to permit West Indians to go to Venezuela to seek employment.

I would like to know something of his terms of employment.
The Member for Middlesex touched on a point which I had hoped to speak on - the question of the visit of Her Royal Highness the Princess Royal.

I am very happy that the .Princess Royal is returning to The West Indies for a short stay.

I am not at all surprised.


I recall on the oc casion when I had the privilege of enter taining her in my home town, Mr. Speaker, that I was surprised to find how much Her Royal Highness knew of The West Indies and what a keen interest she took in all the Territories of The West Indies.

Now that we rre federated - The Prime Minister : Her husband is a Barbadian.
Mr. Joseph: - I am sure that Her Royal Highness is taking a greater interest in The West Indies and I feel that The West Indies Government should take steps to see that Her Royal Highness is given a real royal welco,me and that she enjoys her stay in Th,.

', West Indies.

in Mention was made the Throne Speech of a change in the Constitution, moving towards independence, and to the two Committees that are sitting.

This is all very important in the life of this Par liament.
The views of Members have al ready been heard on all these questions.

The only thing I want to say is this : I am not one of those who want to run too quickly.

I hope we do not make the mis take of running too quickly, for it is strange that people should talk about in dependence on the one hand, and go begging on the other.

I think I would be failing in my duty if I did not offer a word of congratulation to the Minister of Trade and Industry.
I want to congratulate him on the stand he took and the help he gave to our West Indians in the Nottingham riots in 1958. l\foreover, I want to congratulate him on the Citrus Agreement which he got for The West Indies.

T his is an important industry, and as much as we would like to see the Territories industrialised, we can not forget that agriculture is our basic economy.
Reports which I had in England from people of the Colonial Office, satisfie<l me that our M inister - not their Minister - our Minister of Trade and Industry, the Minister of the Federal Government, played a most important part and created a very favourable impression.

I would like to congratulat e the Govern ment on a plan to establish a Standards Division.
If we are going to take our place as a nation among the nations of the world, we must have standards, and the establishment of this department will be of tremendous assistance.

The College of Tropical Agriculture is now to be amalgamated with the Uni versity College of The West Indies.

Men tion was made of this in the Budget Debate by certain Members, but I would like, M r. Speaker, to give credit where credit is due.
The question of amalgama tion of the College of Tropical Agriculture and the University College of The West Indies was first mooted by the Hon.

Victor Bryan, now a Member of this House - • j ' '169 Governor-Ge1ieraCs Sveech- Debate on the Address 770 Monday, 7th December, 1959 The Prime Minister: Who is he?

I only know him as the representative for the Eastern Counties.

Mr. Joseph : - when he was Minister of Agriculture in the Trinidad Govern ment.

It is to his credit that this has come about.


Others have worked - naturally there will be others to finalise plans.

But it is to the credit of t he Member for the Eastern Counties, and I think that I ought, in fairness, and as a Colleague of his, to say that he was responsible for bringing about this amalgamation.

It is not necessary for me to say any thing about ships, the ships which we ex pect in 1961.
All the Members of this House are unanimous in the view that we cannot really become federated until we get close to each other.

Our limited air service cannot bring u s as close as we would like to be.

If these ships arc brought to The West Indies and regular services be planned and· carried out, many of us would like to visit other Territories in the Fed eration.
I am confident that once we visit these T enitoires and see the way of life of the people, we see their needs and learn of their aims and aspiration, the more we will understand the representatives selected by those Territories when they come here and speak on any particular matter.

I think these two ships will play a most important part in cementing that friend ship and unity between the peoples of the Territories and make for a more successful Federation of The West Indies.
The Speech from the Throne, somewhat like the Budget Speech, does not give a lot of scope for a speech unless you want to repeat yourself.

During the Sittings in November and that we had in 1958 - December -- I was absent from the Sitting in May this year - an<l I can see the change in the atmosphere in this House.

I see the difference in relationship between the Members on both sides of the House.
In the earlier stages, I didn't know which side was attacking which - but suffice it to say that they arc now both living as they ought to live.

Speeches were more vitriolic in t he early Sessions; they were more personal and more destructive, but as we are moving along, we find a better relationship between Government and Op position.

We find a different relationship existing between lVIembers on both sides of the House.

This augurs well for the future.

I would like to suggest to some hon.


Members of this House that we cease our attacks ou others by referring to them as representatives of this clique or class, or type of people, or representatives of bureaucrats or anything like that.

Mr. Speaker, I have elected to come to this House, and perhaps you will be sur prised to know that one of the leading persons to succeed in getting me to decide to come into public life was the Deputy Prime Minister - and also the M inister of Finance.
They pointed out to me that the country must put forward people who are interested in Federation.

They wanted all the talent they could possibly find ancl said that I should offer myself for service, and if people thought I was fit enough, well then I would have t he opportunity to serve.

I have come to this Honse with the Federal idea uppermost in my mind.

I have come here because I believe in Fed eration and I want to sec it succeed.
L __ -.- ..- 771 Governor-General's Sperch- Debate on the Address 77'1, Monday, 7th D ecember, 1959 I want to find that we do not refer to this individual as a representative of a clique or a class.

Nobody in any class is better than I, and I don't think that I am bette1· than anybody else.

I would like us all to t hink that we are the equal of each other.
I have been elected by the people of San Fcmando-Naparima, but I don't want to be known as the representative of San l<'emando-N aparima, or of Trinidad; I want to be known as a representative in the House of Representatives in the Fed eration.

I would make this final appeal to hon.

let us try to remember that :VIembers : there should be only two schools of thought.

You belong to one Party with a political philosophy and we belong to another.
We must not impute improper motives to other :Members; we must not suggest or feel that others come h ere to represent a particular class or a particular group.

We want to feel that we have all come here with one view and that is to carry the Federation forward and to sec The West Indies get on the map.

Mr. LeBlanc (Dominica) : Mr.

Speak er, like the hon.

Member who has just resumed his seat, I a lso would like to b e I entirely agree termed a West Indian.
with him that we should travel a bit more and learn as much as we can about our people.

And I think the only way we can start is by our representatives in their individual Territories doing their bit to bring out Federation into sharp focus .

When I do that, as I propose to do now in dealing with matters affecting Dominica, I hope I will not be considered insular.
I think that the only way we can begin to know each other and to know the vari- ous conditions ex1stmg in the areas is by bringing the individual problems of the Territories to this House.

In reading part of the Throne Speech, I see it is stated that negotiations will soon be made in connect ion with the Oils and Fats Agreement.

Now.
Now.

t he problem in Dominica is this: We produce quite a lot of coconuts and I am speaking for the major copra and - ity of Dominicans - the copra, after it is manufactured has to be shipped out of Dominica to be converted int o oil, and in t urn that oil has to be shipped to other people, thereby increasing the high cost of living.

I think, if we are being federated, that wherever the raw m aterial is obtainable, small factories should b egin to thrive right on the spot.
Particularly in the ca.se of copra, I think Dominica sh ould be given the opportunity to put up its very first factory in oils and fats.

Dealing with tourism, Mr. Speaker, I observed that when lVIr.

Issa of Jamaica was asked to visit the various Units and assess the tourist potential of the Units, I did not see Dominica, Montserrat or St.

I drew the matter to Vincent included.

t he attention of this hon.

House and asked whether Mr. Issa would b e persuaded to visit Dominica.
I still hope he would be able to find the time to visit Dominica, St. Vincent or Montserrat, or one or two of these Territories.

You may not know it, but Dominica has been the Cinderella of the Caribbean.

I think it is time she put on the magic shoe.

termed The Prime Minister : Dominicans do not wear shoes.
I l ~ .. 773 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 774 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Mr. LeBlanc: What I would like to say, Mr. Speaker, is that Tourism is a sub ject which concerns almost every Unit, and all the people of The West Indies are looking to the tourist industry to help bolster their economies.

Since I have not found anything about Dominica in this very well prepared pamphlet, I would like to see Dominica spoken of in these terms, as far as tourism is concerned.
Every visitor to Dominica is impressed with its w~alth of natural attractions and scenic beauty.

to see Dominica, that beautiful sunny isle, which has been termed the Cinderella of the Caribbean, being given the opportunity to claim her coveted shoe.

I would like Prospective visitors to this region would also like to hear of her lofty, gigantic mountains, in whose bosoms lie two large fresh water lakes- enchanting, poetic and serene.
Her active volcano which for a while remains dormant, like a sleeping beauty, surrounded by rocks and lava tinctured by a variety of colours of all descriptions, magnificently blended and, when her peace is disturbed, belches forth sulphurous fumes from the bowels of the earth, presents a challenge to the most vivid imagination.

Her hot springs in the Trafalgar area and elsewhere force one to contemplate some of the many wonders of the world.
Her water-falls, also in the Trafalgar area, gurgling down the precipitous slopes above the hydro-electric plant, exemplifies the wonderful combination of the natural and the artificial.

Her botanical gardens, with its decorative and economic sections, artistically plumed and carefully labelled, with a wealth of exotic and indigenous plants have been best described as being scconu to none in the Western Hemis phere.
The famous Rodney's Rock, which played a prominent part in the defeat of the French General, de Grasse, by Admiral Lord Rodney, the Cabrits, more popularly known as the Fort, with underground tun nels used by both French and English in their fight for supremacy of the third largest Island of The West Indies.

Mr. Speaker, if I may observe, some of us who believe and lead others to believe t hat we are the be all and end all of our Unit Parties, are making a sad mistake.
I think self-knowledge is a far better asset than self-esteem.

the Carib Reserve - The t omb of Prince Rupert, from which the Portsmouth Harbour has derived its name - a large area with its own Chief and Councillors - up to recently they had a King but now they have a Chief - Mr. Sinanan: Have they got a Queen?

Mr. LeBlanc: -working under the guidance and supervision of the Govern I believe, Mr. Speakrr, that be ment.
cause of the historical background of that Aboriginal group, there is a lot of interest both for the pleasure-seeker and the re searcher .

Having said my piece for Dominica on the matter of tourism, I wili say - and I'm saying it for the benefit of this House -that since 1925 we had been ruled by a particular set of individuals who had a partciular attitude towards life and devel opment.

Thanks to the Labour Party of .. L , ,.

--- - .,..
--- - .,..

.....- :---i f 775 Gove1nor-General's Speech,-- Debate on the Address 776 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Dominica we have opened the eyes of most of the people, and even the eyes of some of the older representatives.

Mr. Sinanan: Who opened your eyes?

Mr. LeBlanc : I think that a more comprehensive development programme could be submitted by that Government.

Mr. Hill: Which Government?


Mr. LeBlanc : I feel that it is the duty of the Federal Government to send the respective Ministers to a Territory when ever that Territory submits a development programme.

I don't believe that it is proper for M inisters only to meet Mem bers of the Government; I think it is necessary that they also meet Members of the Opposition as well in order to get the views of the people.
Because right now representative of the although of Dominica in this House my Party forms the Opposition in that Unit Territory, and we do not always subscribe to the pro gramme or the approach towards devel opment.
I am I do not think it would be proper to go into details, but I feel that the only way the Federal Government could arrive at a conclusion for development, in any aspect whatsoever, of the smaller Territories is to have a survey on the spot and together with the case presented by the Unit Terri tory representatives in this hon.

House, the wishes of that Territory be strongly repre sented to the Colonial Office, letting them know that more monies must be obtained for the development of the particular area.
T he monies available now are entirely insufficient.

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches) : Hear, hear!

Mr. LeBlanc: If ever the Units are to develop at the rate of progress which we have envisaged, I think more monies them to should be spent in assisting develop in order that all of us can indeed one day take our rightful places - again I would say it - as independent Units in this Federation.

Mr. Sinanan: I think that that back bencher should be on the front bench.
Mr. Swahey (Westmoreland): Mr. Speaker, in offering my contribution to this Debate, I think I should confine my self t o a particular subject, and my sub ject is agriculture.

Listening to the last speaker caused me to say this before I begin my speech.

I would like him to know that I do not share his views on Tourism; because all the T erritories in the Federation cannot embark on one development.

M1·.

LeBlanc : Why ?

Mr. Swabey : Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out to the hon.
Gentleman - Mr. LeBlanc : I wonder if the hon.

Member would give way, Sir?

Mr. Swabey : Of course.

Mr. LeBlanc: I would like the hon.

!v1ember to explain why he feels that as for as Tourism is concerned, it should be restricted only to the "haves" and not to the " have nots", despite the fact that the "have nots" may be very attractive.
Be cause I called Dominica " the Cinderella" "j r ~ -..- - 777 Governor-General's Speech- D eba,te on the Address 778 Monday, 7th D ecember, 1959 [MR. LEBLANC] and it is true.

Wh y should hon.

Members feel that other places shonld be given op portunities as far as Tourism is concerned while there is b eauty in some ot her places?

l\'h-.

Hill : He never said t hat .

Mr. Swabey : Mr. Speaker, it is simple lack of communica to answer.

No.

1 - no roads.

You can't invite t ion; No.


Q - people to come and enjoy the facilities of your Territory if you have no roads for proper transportation.

T he beau ty might be t here.

We are not disput ing that .

But they cannot see them, and I think that my worthy F riend's Territory should em bark ou agriculture more. '

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear, hear !

Mr. Swabey : When the other Units are developing in Tourism we must have some Units to take care of food.
Mr. LeBlanc: You want a vegetable garden!

Mr. Swabey: Mr. Speaker, I would like more emphasis to be put on agricul ture, and I am very much surprised at the casual mention made on that subject in the Throne Speech ; because agriculture is the foundation and the backbone of every progressive country.

Mr. W. B. Williams : Tell them about President Roosevelt.
Mr. Swabey: In the good old days when the economy of America was low and the people had to be fed by the little monies that America had, it was agricul ture that restored t he United States to the t t' r economic position it now enjoys, enabling it to find employment for our surplus agri cultural workers.

M r. Speaker, in The West Indies today we suffer first from lack of :fina.nce.
Speak ing abou t finauce reminds me that even if the Federal Govern ment is not in a position to offer any financial aid, it should be its b usiness to use its Technical Advisers to gin advice to the Unit Terri tories, to establish an agricultural loan bank and m ake loans available to t he farmers on a long-term basis and at a small rate of interest.
Mr. Speaker, I think that Agricult ure is such a wide subject that it could well be placed on an equal footing - in order to soothe the heart of my worthy Friend from Dominica - with Tourism.

We here should not be interested in the Queen or the King on that little t hrone.

We should be interested first with the economy of our Federation and so pay more attention in order to get more from the land.
I would like to point out that we have already taken too much from the soil and it is t ime that 1.ve pu t something back.

Twenty five or thirty years ago the soil gave very high production and it was to the benefit of the older people who used up the fat of the land, and now it is exhausted .

I think if we take out of th e soil it is time that we put something back into it.

It is time that we make up our minds t o put back the necessary things to enrich the soil.

4.
4.

10 p.m. Mr. Speaker, take our cattle industry .

The population of T he West Indies is growing and the amount of cattle is de I have to creasing.

Some years ago - ------ 779 Go·vernor-General' s Speech- D ebate on the Address 780 Monday, 7th December, 1959 compare Jamaica - we had more cattle nnd more beef than we could utilise and today although Jamaica is producing a lot of beef we still have to import beef from New Zealand.
If more encouragement, more help, more loans could be arranged for the small farmer I am certain that they would produce enough food for The West Indies.

I nolice in the Budget Speech mention of the revision of the rice agreement.

I still feel that we in The West Indies can grow more rice and although it may be a means to be friendly with British Guiana, I feel that love begins at home.
We should try to help the people of the Fed eration before we look to make such a big contract or agreement with a Territory which is outside of the Federation; and I am saying that when the adviser or the expert from the Federal Government visits the Unit Territories - especially Jamaica - he should not only get in touch with the head of the Government in Kingston but should take a trip out into the country.

We would take them around ourselves and let them see what can be done in the vari ous Territories.
They should not get a long list of figures from the Government - because anybody could put together a list of figures - but get expert advice on the project that is being embarked upon.

Mr. Speaker, coming back to the rice in It is a serious question in The dustry.

West Indies today, because if we are look ing for nationhood and we embark upon our own regiment, suppose an emergency arises that we have got to use up our regi ment and we cannot get supplies from abroad, how can we feed our soldiers ?
And I am particularly asking my Friend, take the Minister of Agriculture and Natural these view Resources, not to as lightly as he took the points lightly - Indian Agricultural promise for West I am also disappointed that I Societies.

have not heard anything more about West Indian Agricultural Societies, because it is there tha.t the farmer gets his ideas; it is the small farmer's parliament where he can go and air his views, where he goes to make his complaints to the Federal Gov ernment.
I think the time has come when we would embark on having a Federal Agricultural Society and bring the Units much closer together in agriculture.

I would like also to add my quota of tribute to the hon.

Minister of Trade and Industry.

He has made a very good start and I hope he will continue, because ,lfhat is affecting the Federation is that we want more guaranteed markets.

We want more guaranteed markets for rice with a fixed price.
In Jamaica the Pimento Industry is well taken care of because it is one of the industries where, if the price falls for five or six years, with our surplus in the back we are in no trouble; and it has a guaran teed market.

But the farmer today is ad vised to plant more peas, or to grow more citrus; and because there is not a long-term agreement that is made to protect the in terests of the poor, unfortunate farmer, you find that the farmer's son is deserting the farm.
We must do something- it is a very serious thing; because the farmer's son, the young farmer, is leaving the land.

Why ?

Because he is working hard but the mar ket facilities are very poor.
He cannot make a livelihood, and I am calling upon the Federal Government, not for financial - -----....- 781 Governor-General's Speech- Debat e on the Address 782 Monday, 7th December, 1959 r l MR. Sw ABEY] aid-because I see the Minister of Finance is just waiting to see if I am going to ask for financial aid, and to inquire where be is to get the money from.
I am saying that more emphasis should be given to it is one of the biggest, one agriculture - of the surest, one of the best policies to adopt - so as to get the farmer into full production.

And again, I am asking that farmers of this country, the farmers of the Federat\on, the farmers of this new nation that we are building, be given an oppor tunity to take their rightful place.

There is a place for them.

They are hard work ers, hard thinkers and they are serious.
And I am positively certain that if you establish Agricultural Loan Banks, put more help at the disposal of the farmer, he will help to build the economy of our F ed eration.

Mr. Lloyd (St. Kitts) : Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to associate myself with the speakers on the Throne Speech, and to say how much I welcome hearing the points tackled and those to be tackled in due course.
I may add, Mr. Speaker, in my humble opinion; much more could be done if the spirit of insularity could be decreased, and there be more co-operation.

~ An outline was given of the historic friend ly relations with Canada and those rela tions with the United States and the part played by the Ministers of our Govern ment at the Commonwealth Economic Conference in Montreal in September 1958 and 1959.

Consular Officers, M r. Speaker, is another item.


Nothing could take the place of training in all walks of life in this new nation.

Reform for Units.

Mr. Speaker, while the people are so anxious to welcome an increased measure of local responsibility, let me hope that the political leaders will preach Federation in its proper sense and not in any way to profit on t he ignorance of the less fortunate.
Mr. Speaker, I am saying that only to say this : At an early stage of the Budget Debate, Members circulated an accusation alleged to have been made by the hon.

t he Prime Minister and I feel, Mr. Speaker, that was on political grounds which to my mind is very dangerous.

I am warning against that if harmony and unity are to exist.

I feel we should make it our duty to less fortunate than we are what is the right way of thinking instead of engraving on their like greed, hatred and minds insularity.
those people who are things teach Sir, I would suggest that we bury our troubles.

It is true that the existing problems tended to hinder progress and this, to my mind, is only history repeating itself as examples to be followed of the United Kingdom, United States and other nations for that matter.

I notice, Mr. Speaker, that items have been taken from the Throne Speech and a newspaper , so I have itemised them here.
Mr. Speaker, to say something more, there is one word that I feel which is only made up of four letters in the alphabet that covers the whole world.

That word is news.

So far as I know, not one person in here or in any other place was able to is to my manage the word because it mind, the whole world.
N-E-W-S: N for North, E for East, W for West and S for South and for that reason, Sir, I feel we ought to be very careful in dealings with \...__.. ___ _ 783 Go vemor-General's Speech-- D13bate on the Address 784 Monday, 7th December, 1959 things, moreso in this House, because of the news that will be carried out to the people.

I concur with the words spoken by the: hon.

Member for Middlesex who spoky with reverence of the islands of the Carib bean as dots.
I believe that I belong to one of the smallest islands in the whole of the Federation but I feel that we are as large as any of the other islands of the F ederation.

And, I feel that when we come here we should come with something in our minds so that we would feel we are going forward in one common cause of doing our part to build this new nation.

Insularity is a thing which the faster we can cut its root out the better it is for us.
I do not intend to prolong the Debate because I understand that there are dozens of us who intend to say something this evening.

However, I say finally that we are approaching a new year and with my best wishes, Sir, I would like to hope that there is a prosperous New Year for all the Members of this House and of the Fed era- .

tion.

I hope that in the new year we shall return with renewed thoughts and spirits in the interest of building this new nation of ours.
Mr. Densham (St. Elizabeth, Jamaica): Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Throne Speech, I feel first of all that it was only the presence of His Excellency the Gov ernor-General that saved the Speech from being a stick with which we could have belaboured the Government.
On my side, the object is, first of all, to speak of the Social Services which are to the moth in the so often likened twilight, rather than to the butterfly emerging into the Elizabethan age full of colour, a colour that begins to penetrate into the drab lives of all our I sland people.

, Proof of that is the conference which the hon.


Minister for Social Services called this year, and which adopted a programme of social services to form the background of Federal · thinking in this respect for the first five years of Federation.

If I may refer to my notes, the things that struck me about this conference, and what this side of the House feels about it.

The first t hing is Recommendation No.

4 on the interchange of personnel among the units.


There we have struck at the very root of federation: civil servants going from one unit to another.

If this comes into being they will carry a certain amount of their island's good with them, and by their interchanging like that, we will get the people coming together more and more.
The objection, to most people, is that the salary scales are too different between the islands, but that is what we want despite the objection- to aim at the people getting together.

On the other hand, we want to get the salary scale and the cost of living the same throughout by bringing the less developed T erritories up- The Prime Minister : Bring down Jamaica to Montserrat !

Mr. Densham: This is a small way in which we can get that - by inter changing civil servants.
We found that during· the elections in Jamaica, the civil servants were very eloquent - The Prime Minister : Civil Servants at election time, and you did not fire them out of the D.L:P. ?

Mr.-·Densham: Recommendation No.

5 is an increased grant.

But there, I think, C.D.

&ilW.

will have to take charge ,of ~ ,l 785 Governor-General's Speech,- Debate on the A ddress 786 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [MR. DENSHAM] that, because it is the Units who will have to provide the social services.
That would be one grant that we could certainly do with more money.

At present it is the responsibility of the Units, and each Unit feels quite differently towards Social Services.

In my trip around the Units I found that certain islands set great store on social services, others where they have hardly started yet.

We want to get that more unified, and this idea of sending round Civil Servants to unify the whole set up, will help.

The seventh- I am reading from this Report on the Social Services.
The seventh recommendation is for the mentally handi capped people .

.

.

.

4.35 p.m.: Sitting suspended.

5.05 p.m.: Sitting resumed.

Mr. Densham : Mr. Speaker, I will leave the last number-7-which you re member secured the tea interval, and go on to the next one in that Report-the needs of youth.

On this I am fully with my opposite number, the Minister of Labour and Social Affairs.
We feel, on this side of the House, that the needs of youth are of paramount importance in this new nation and we have already, fortunately, a very virile association- the Boy Scouts -which I think is known throughout The West Indies.
There is also an association called the Boys' Brigade, and with those the Federation give a two I suggest subvention to start even more work throughout the Islands, because our ex perience in Jamaica is that boys who have passed through even one stage of the Scouts, and more particularly the ones we get early who start as Cubs and go up through to Scouts, have a greater ad vantage when they grow up and meet their fellow-men.
Anyone can recognise a Scout because he is easy to get on with, and he has been taught the social virtues-which we seem to want more than artything else when we are coming together like this.

So I am suggesting, Sir, to start with, that a subvention be given to t he Boy Scouts because they are a virile association -they are known in all the islands-and after that the Boys' Brigade lbe actively pursued.

Being a member of the Boys Scouts myself .... Hon.

Member : How about the girls !

You only like boys ?


Mr. Densham: I can't speak for them, unfortunately.

I am afraid that is one of the handicaps that I suffered during the elections, being a single man.
But I can assure the House that on the part of the Boy Scouts Association, we are perfectly ready to move further in The West Indies, and to increase our efforts to bring the boys up in the way that we all want them to go, so that when they grow up they can take their places, not only as members of the community, but I suggest, as leaders of the community, because it is in leadership that The West Indies is rather deficient at the moment.

What is the idea of this unified organisation ?


Not only to make citizens but also to try and pick out leaders, as the Royal Navy does, in order to train them from their youth so that we will have ready-made leaders when the time comes for them to take their rightful places in the f orld.

The next point is the Prison Services : No connection between the two.

The con ference has suggested that the Prison Ser vice is the first service· to be federated.

It i.
It i.

787 Gov ernor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 788 Monday, 7th December, 1959 is only a step from there to federate the Police services of The West Indies.

That will be a wonderful step, any way.

There is no need to go into any examples as the whole matter of police is fresh in most people's minds.
We do feel-and I say "we" because up to the time I was elected Lo this House I had the honour to be well up in the Special Constables, and had been there for upwards of 25 years; so I say, WC" the Police feel - that F ederal Police is one of the best ways to improve the ser vices of the people in the Federation.

You could have two or three training schools.

Today the Police from Jamaica are trained wholly in Jamaica.

Similarly in some of the other islands.


If we had a federated police wc could have one or two schools for special portions of police work instead of the present system where Trinidad trains all her own, Jamaica trains her own and Barbados trains some of the other T erritories' t oget her with her own.

Having a federated police force we would have officers getting a chance to move from one island to another and the same way with the higher ranks of NCO's.
I am endorsing the hope of this Conference that the Prisons Service could be federated and, as a further point, that the police services will be federated.

Community Development : I hope that this will be one of the things soon to be worked out by the Government.

Like some of the things we say here, this is a matter on which I spoke last year and I have to repeat it again.

It seems that it is the things we talk most about that we get action on.
For instance, we have had one result such as the intended visit by.

the Prime Minister to the other islands.

That we spoke on last year.

So, if the Minister of Social Affairs talks about Com- munity Development, possibly the Unit Territories will seek help from Federal sources, and move onwards to what would be a perfect village or perfect town in their communities.

In The West Indies there is no central focal point in the vill age or town, except in the very big towns.
A person going into a village for the first time is quite unable to get the feeling, or to be able to meet the village head-man or to know what the public opinion of the village is.

You are unable to know how the village thinks or feels.

What we want to have in each village is a village hall or village institution.

This will have to be considered by Governments.


I have asked the Governors in Jamaica about this ques tion for the past twenty-five years, and all I could hear from each of them through the years, is that we have not got the money.

It could be started by Governments.

I think that all that is needed first of all is a roof and a floor, and gradually, as the people understand the institution, they will increase the amenities in the place by getting up the walls, a game of dominoes and so on.
They can go on that way until it is a working proposition, and that way the people could be left to manage their own institution exactly as is done in England up to this day.

Up to this day, every village there has an institute, and the institute has a committee, and that committee has a leader.

In The West In dies this is lacking.


Those of you who have gone around among the islands of the Federation will have found that, in each village, there may be a rum shop which can t ell you something, and that is just about all that there is.

I think that we are at the stage where we can go forward from using the I .al - - ..... - 789 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 790 Monday, · 7th D ecember, 1959 [MR. DENSHAM] rum shop as a centre of each village.
We, in turn, can put the Units through to UNESCO.

I think the Minister of Social Services will agree that they are experts in this field of village development and it would be in their province.

We can use them, but it seems to me that all of us have got to be concerned and be sort of missionaries until the Units get to know about this.

In the same way t he hon.


male Member for Dominica thinks that each man has to go back to his Unit and talk about Federation, the same way we have to be missionaries in this field.

The next head I have in my notes is Social Insurance.

Under this social _insur ance, we know that in countries in Europe you have a system where you pay so much, I do not know what the rate is now but I think the rat e was ten pence when I was an apprentice, and that was many many years ago.
think it is prob I ably a few shillings now, and out of that you get all sorts of things like free medical att endance, and so on.

We have got to think of moving forward towards that, r emembering as we do, that there are certain islands like the island from which the Member to whom I just referred the male Member for Dominica-comes, where the people only work two days a week for the employer and t he rest of the week they work for themselves.

Mr. LeBlanc : I wonder if the hon.

Member will give way ?


If, as r epresentatives, we go to the various Units and if, when we get to them, we go to a table and dring some cocktails with some indigenous people who .t ell us what t hey get from other indigenous persons - I think the should have gone to Dominican and - Mr. Densham : I accept the rebuke because I talked with Mr. Archibald.

Mr. LeBlanc : Who is Mr. Archibald ?

Mr. Densham : I did not look enough to see for myself and learn conditions.
H owever, Sir, there is that trouble that would arise in an insurance scheme.

W e have it in Jamaica where you do not get the people working the ,whole time.

They work more for themselves and so some one will have to work out a detailed proportion of what the employer should pay and what the employee would pay.

That is the only thing I see as a fault in the insurance scheme-that most of us like to work half time or part time like hon.

Members in t his House.


We cannot even say we work full time, we are not full-time workers.

You can't possibly say that we are full time M embers.

Well, Sir, we do want in surance because there is that lack of secur ity, of a feeling of security, in the whole West Indies.
As one moves around, one feels that people may havr their little houses, in some cases a little shed, some where, but there is not t hat same sense of security that one gets in older parts of the world where people feel that if hard luck suddenly catches up with them they have every hope of getting some benefits.

I think that we have to work toward that sort of thing.
Just in the same way that I mentioned t he Village Halls and Instit utes and things like that just now, I would remind Mem~ hers that in The West Indies we have not got quite the same problems, because for our meeting places we can use beaches, communal beaches, swimming baths.

We can use the open-air very much more and I am yet to see anywhere where the lo,.

r L_ -- -.- ... 791 Governor-General's Speecl1r- Debate on the Address 792 Monday, 7th December, 1959 countries are really developing.
Let me be insular for a minute : we have a com nmnity-beach in J amaica near the Airport.

It is one of the few ventures that we have started where people can go and bathe and change and meet and dance-this sort of open-air community meeting place, that might quite possibly be started in a very small way in a lot of t he other islands.

Their bee ches are even prettier than some of the beaches in J amaica.

Mr. LeBlanc : Such as Dominica's !

Mr. Densham: Yes, as in Dominica.


If they get enough money to pay for thE: roads they can get the beaches developed.

We must remember that is our job-to get the more backward communities going forward, as soon as we possibly can, using as much of their own resources as they can.

That is where I hope t hey will come to us for advice.
When I say come to us, I do not mean any particular island, but surely amongst the Members of the House~ there are people who have great experience, and we number amongst our Members people of all sorts of trades, categories and professions.

We are very representative.

It is our job to help them, but their job is to come to us for advice.

They can get it.

The same thing applies to the University of The West Indies.
I think we should press on, with the help of the Minister for Social Services, so as to get degrees for Social Services instituted at the University College of The West Indies in order that our men, boys, and girls may be trained in social services, and with their West Indian background be sent out to do the sort of work that will be increasingly necessary in the years to come.

To conclude, the part about this Con ference of Community D evelopment-I join with other people in thanking the hon .
M inister for Labour and Social Services.

I hope I have got it right now- Hon.

Members : Social Affairs.

- Mr. Densham: Social Affairs, because she put in a great deal of home work before the Conference took place so that she was able to steer it t o a successful conclusion.

.,, That, Sir, is the way this side of the House sees Social Services.
It is a very very important part of the work of The West Indies, but a part that few people know about, and all of us want to know more of the actual working of it.

At the same time we mustn't lose sight that the first job on this side of the House as I see it, Sir, is to get the communications of The West Indies going.
As we have already seen, in this D ebate particularly, nothing can be done; the beaches cannot be opened np; tourists cannot be brought in; and later on business men will not want to go to islands where they have to spend an hour and a half on the road from the Airport.

If the hon.

Minister of Communications and Works will do something about it, we are hoping that the Units will co operate with him in these schemes.
First of all for harbours, and then for Airports; and bearing in mind that when we are considering airports, it is as well to look for the latest developments in this business and find out whether we cannot stop ouildh1g ever longer and longer runways just for flights of twenty minutes, forty minutes and sixty minutes, because I am certain those flights can be undertaken by some of these new vertical-lift aircraft.
- 793 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 794 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [MR. DENSHAM] In doing that we could bring the aero dromes right close to the centres of popu lation and also to the centres where tourism may be practised later on.

We feel that communication development is a prime necessity of the whole West In dies, and the air-services come a very close second to the development of harbours.
With the harbours is bound up this lighting service-I am not exactly certain what to call them-in the mercantile ship ping service.

The lighting should be taken on by the Federal Government in the same successful way that the Meteorologi cal Service has been taken over.

All the lighting buoy systems of The West Indies should be taken over as soon as the Unit themselves ask the Fed Governments eration if they could do it, and not only that, but the Units themselves should pay for it.
In some cases the Federation has taken on services and the Units are poss ibly not paying their share as we thought they should be doing.

For example the Airport at Piarco-there are certain ser vices which we expect to get there, such as the Meteorological Services.
it I can say it once again for the last time in this year-I have had a chance of speaking to commercial fishermen here is the Sessions began, and since more and more obvious that commercial fishing is still one of the most important things in the Federation.

They can start to make it pay.

The Units, as far as I can see, if the hon.

Minister for Natural Re sources will agree, are getting more and more anxious to come into some federal scheme by which we can co-ordinate all .
fishing, and get fishermen moved around when the local fishing season is bad.

And when they move around, the hon.

Minister for Social Affairs will have to step im because they will want social services when they move.

It is the same idea of getting people in the Federation to know each other better and better all the time.

That is the aim, to make Federation self-suffi cient as soon as possible and let the people know each other better.
Mr. Cooke (St. James, Jamaica): Mr. Speaker, if I rise with diffidepce it is be cause I am not sure that I understand the true position today.

I had anticipated a little parrying of words with Members of the Opposition but apparently they have had a change of heart.

As a matter of fact the Speeches have been less vitriolic and less puckish and there has Fen been a little constructiveness about them.

For that reason I wish to congratulate them.


I have often noticed that my Friends opposite have a predilection for saying the wrong things, but I say, Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

You should ask me then what is my claim for standing to speak because I had anti cipated something to answer and there is nothing.

My only claim for standing is that I feel more strongly today than ever before that I belong to The West Indies.
I want to make the pronouncement here and now that I have greater faith in The West Indies today than I have ever had in the past.

That is because I notice there is a new social climate, even among Mem bers here.

There is a new atmosphere in which people are not thinking so much of undoing the work of others but rather of making others do the best they can.
I am so sorry that in the past there has been a tendency to speak of the disabilities of the Federation and say how it is so difficult to have it work.

I was happy to hear one Member from the Opposition ..,,.... 795 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on t he Address 796 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Benches say the difficulties were more psychological than real.

I agree with that, but there are still difficulties which we have to overcome.
I think that in The West Indies today we have the resources to make a good Fed eration.

In the first place we have the resource of man-power.

In The West In dies we have many men and women whom we can call upon to do the work of the Federation.

Some emphasis has been placed on the need for economic stability.

Some people doubt the viability of a good Federation without economic stability.

Personally I am very happy.

And when I say this I hope I am not going to be accused of being a breaker of images.
I believe it is a pity we do not have more financial re sources at the moment, but if we had them people would be so egocentric and cocksure they would not want to get together.

It is a great pity that there is no real great external force to make us come to gether.

There is no threat of war.

As a matter of fact each Unit is basking in the sunshine of the political advancement they have got.
Some of the local political leaders would prefer to hold on to the positions and advancements they have reached rather than think of the greater future.

Because of the political advancement they have reached they cannot think of higher and wider horizons.

I am happy to know I am a West In dian, more than that a Socialist.
If I am concerned about the people of Kingston or the people of Hanover or the people of Clarendon or the people of Manchester there is no reason at all why as a Jamaican I should not be concerned about the people of Dominica or Anguilla.

Therefore, I wish we would address ourselves to the task of providing that economic viability we speak of, not for any particular island but for the whole of the Federation.
Now, I have said that to make a point because it has been brought to my atten tion, and no doubt the Minister of Finance would be able to put us right, that there has been a distribution of C .D.

& W. Grants that was not equitable and in accordance with the practice which ob tained in the past.

It has been brought to my attention by the Press and by letters from Jamaica, that people there are a little upset.

I myself am greatly con cerned.


If I am a little insular today it is because I wish to express this fact, that when one visits Jamaica today and ob serves this social climate and notices the economic growth there is a tendency to come to the conclusion that Jamaica does not need anything.

Let me say that Jamaica has made great strides in the past ten years or so.

When the present Government came into power ... .

Mr. Sinanan: 20 years.


I hope the time will come when we would be able to have more than threats.

I want to say here, Mr. Speaker, there is a tendency for some people to think of the particular island to which they belong, not giving much consideration to the other Units.

Mr. Cooke : I am prepared to say that.

I am prepared to say since 1938 some people have been torced to have a change of heart.

Even in 1938 there was exploitation and the Colonial yoke we had to fight to put away.

Since 1938 we have.
Since 1938 we have.

not been able to put away that Colonial • 797 GovernorcGeneral' s Speech- Debate on the Address 798 Monday, 7th December, 1959 li\iR.

Coo1rn] yoke.

We have not done so yet, but I know the day will soon be coming.

I will not deny that at one time some of the great leaders of The West Indies real ised they had to do something for the un fortunates.

If Sir Alexander Bustamante is mentioned here, his name should be mentioned with reverence.

I am not afraid to say that.


In those days he had vision.

In these last days-let me say this when I heard some of the expressions he made, I wonder if he has gone to the category of a buffoon.

Hon.

Members: No, no.

Take that back.

Shame.

You let down Cornwall.

in Mr. Cooke: I say, Sir, if my hon.

Friends would allow me to develop my argument, they would not be so vociferous in their expressions.
I am saying, when a man gets up and makes statements, and does not understand the present state of affairs-I am not calling any names-or if he has reached the point in his life where there is a sign of senility, his friends should observe that and at least give him guidance the pronouncements he makes.

But, Sir, I have digressed, and I want to return to the point I was making before, that is, that Jamaica today has reached an excellent point in its economic growth.

But we are not out of the woods.


But for the fact that we have a capable Government, with men of integrity, we would not have reached that point at all.

But because we have a role to play there and know there is so much more to be done, we are committed even greater to the task and need all the funds we can get.

That is why I was distressed and con cerned that Jamaica was denied the sum of money that should have been given to her.
I have no doubt at all that the Minis ter of Finance would be in a position to enlighten me.

I wait for that moment.

Reference was made to Constitutional development in the Throne Speech and I wish to make brief reference to that here.

As a matter of fact, it was promulgated that we should have an almost new form of Government- Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches) : Hear, hear!


Mr. Cooke: - and there would be a change when we would not have that sort of external influence on the Ministers when they meet in Committee.

Now, Sir, that is a good thing-it is a very good thing, and we hope that the time is going to come very soon when we would have full Dominion status, and I know that the time is now when we should strike forth.
I do not want to repeat myself, but I want to say again that the time is now when we must show some imagination; the time is now when as a Government we must show to the people that we want to get somewhere.

If there has been doubt the doubt has been expressed because some people want to see a more wsitive ap proach made by the Government.

That does not mean that the present Govern ment has not achieved anythitig.
It has achieved a lot, and I wish to congratulate the Ministers for the excellent job they have done .

Mr. Sinanan : Don't spoil it now.

Mr. Cooke : I would even be gener ous enough to extend my compliments to Members of the Opposition though I would like to express it this way : Sub specie aeternitatis.

• 799 Govemor-General's Speech- D ebate on the Address 800 Monday, 7th D ecernber, 1950 ,,.. - 7 1 Mr. W. B. Williams : bad.
Your Latin is Let us 1·ealise that this is the time to p ut the next foot forward.

H ow can we do that ?

Hon .

Membe1·s (Opposition Benches) : Remember Debates must be in English.

Hon.

Member : By putting the next Mr. Cooke: I am prepared to explain it to my Friends who wouldn't under stand : "We would have to put on the spectacle of God to see the good that comes from them".
Nevertheless, I am prepared to say that some good has come the Opposition, and I have no from doubt at all that we are going forward I am not and doing well.

But, Sir, conscious of the driving force which will make the people of Jamaica and the peo pl e of Montserrat, Anguilla and all the people say : Now this is what we want - Nationhood.

And today if I can do noth ing else I would wish to ask all the men here to become dedicated to the cause of F ederation .

Mr. Hill : What about t he ladies ?


Mr. Cooke : Well, when we say men here we also mean women.

And so, Mr. Speaker - Mr. Sinanan: A lot of scientists ai·e ma.king that mistake today.

Mr. Cooke: Now I am prepared to say,_ Sir, that I have no pretensions to being a scientist.
As a matter of fact, not having the forensic ability of the Leader of the Opposition, not having his sort of perspicacity, I would not try to predict the future; but this I say, Sir, that we have reached a state in our development when we could be proud of the foundation we have laid, but now that we have laid that foundation let us not rest there too long.

foot forward !

Mr. Cooke : What are t he real factors that must be contributed?
And, Mr. Speaker, let me say that if I make refer ence to the Education syst ems, it is be cause I want to underline some of the facts I mentioned here the last time we debated that Motion on Integration.

I have not discussed this with the Minister and so I do not know exactly what steps have been taken and what suggestions have been made, but let me say this : that good education is a necessary prerequisite to any kind of Federation.
Mr. Speaker, it is all well and good for somebody to get up and say: " Well how are you going t o handle Dominica as they are all Catholics; how are you going to handle Trinidad for Trinidad is predomi nantly Catholic" .
But I am not concerned with people who want to indoctrinate any body; I am not concerned with anybody who says that all people should belong to the Roman Catholic Church or the Presbyterian Church- as a matter of fac t they might want them to reach the high standard of Presbyterian Church as my Friend of the Opposition would say- I am· not concerned with the attachment of any individual to any organisation.
What I am concerned with is the fact that there is such a disparity- as somebody expressed it- between the standards of education all over the various islands.

I am saying t hat if the Education in Barba dos is so excellent-and I use Barbados just as the name comes to me- 801 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 802 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Hon.

Member: As the criterion.


Mr. Cooke: If you wish to say so - as the criterion-and where the people are almost one hundred per cent literate, then there is no reason at all why the people of Trinidad and Tobago should not be one hundred per cent literate; and why the people of Jamaica, for that matter, should not also be one hundred per cent literate.

But unless this Federal Govern ment recognises the importance now of good leadership in education, then it would ~ave failed in doing its job.
I know that the usual answer is "We are bound by the limitations of this Con stitution", but if we are bound by the limitations of a Constitution that prevents progress, then let us break up the Consti tution and get a new one.

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Hear, hear, hear !

Come over here !
Come over here !

Mr. Cooke : The merger between the School of Agriculture and the University College of The West Indies is really a good thing, but your University will only and I speak as a man who has be good - some pretensions to being a sort of teacher- Dr. Duhaney: Speak, teacher.

M1·.

Cooke: - you cannot have a good University if you don't have a good infant school.
If the people of Dominica and again I am just using this name hypo thetically-wish to have their sons and daughters coming to the University Col lege of The West Indies and being able to profit from what is being taught there~ then they must start out in the pre adolescent stage and give them a strong foundation.

Therefore there is no need saying that you must have money to do that.
Money is not necessarily the cri terion which you should use to judge the possibilities of this Federation; and that is what we have been doing.

I think, Mr. Speaker, that there should be conferences called for Education Ad visers, school teachers, Ministers of Edu: cation, Ministers of Social Affairs, and so on.

Let them get together; let it be an academic exercise where they could work something out and produce a good plan; then leave the individual Governments to apply that plan.
That is how I see it, Mr. Speaker.

Forgive me if somebody does not agree with me.

Now, I want to make a little reference to the question of piers in the course of speaking.

Now, Mr. Speaker, there is a little fight on.

You will realise that in Jamaica we do not only fight with the outside world but we fight among ourselves as well so that we may have progress.
You will find that for instance some people in Kingston would say they want a deep water pier, but we in Montego Bay feel that because of the need for development there should be a deep harbour pier in Montego Bay.

I would like the Minister of Communi cations and Works, privately if he does not wish to do so now, to tell me if any investigation has been done there.

Hon.

Members (Opposition Benches): Answer, answer now.


Mr. Cooke: I am saying so because it is my feeling that you should not only have development in the smaller Terri tories, but also in the big Territories, and in sections of the big Territories also.

Mr. Sinanan : Answer now !

La .

.

.

-__ - - - - - -- - i - - - - - - - 803 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 801} Monday, 7th December, 1959 Mr. Cooke: I sympathise with my friend; and I agree with my hon.
Friend from Westmoreland who is an agricultur ist of note.

I see that he has made some remarks here and I will try to elaborate on them.

Mr. Sinanan: If you can.

Mr. Cooke : Yes, if I can.

I do not know that all of us here realise that most of the people of The West Indies are gain fully employed in agricultural pursuits.

They are now, but do you know that it i• a fact that there is a tendency for the greater number of the people to leave the rural areas and gravitate towards the town ?
I have seen it.

It is not only be cause the people don't want to work.

It is because too often we ask people to pro duce and when we produce we can't find markets.

I wish to congratulate the Minis ter of Agriculture and Natural Resources because I know that he has addressed him self to the subject.

Mr. Hill : Who ?

Mr. Cooke : But I have to say to him that he has attended to the matter as a whole but there is necessity for a little more attention to details.
And, knowing him as I do, I know that he will attend to the details soon.

I do not want to speak on tourism at all as I know that there is no person here who knows more about the tourist indus try than I do.

I agree that the time has come when we must exploit the tourist possibility of The West Indies but let me warn that tourism carries with it cer tain dangers.

Yes, I know .

Mr. Sinanan : What about green back dollars ?


Mr. Cooke : It is a fact that you get dollars if you do well but those of us who have studied tourism will remember that there is a little town called Las Vegas in the United States whose tourist industry disappeared overnight leaving the people poorer than they were before.
It is a nice arc coming from Jamaica right down to Trinidad and you can build up a great tourist industry here; but alongside it, let me warn the Minister of Trade and In dustry, make sure to have other industries growing up.

I do not want to say much more, Sir, but I wish here and now to point out something that nobody has ever said.

Time and time again Jamaica has been severely criticised because of the Jamaican's atti tude to Federation.

Mr. Hill : No insularity here.


Mr. Cooke : But let us examine the situation and see the reason why Jamaica has taken the attitude she has taken.

There was a movement from 1936 which expressed itself openly in 1938.

A great movement.

Mr. Sinanan : Where was Manley then?

Mr. Cooke : In his law office practis ing.

Mr. Bradshaw : And drafting the rules for Bustamante !
Mr. Cooke: There was a revolution - and I would like to remind my Friend who does not know the true history-and this revolution came about, not inspired by any individual, but because there was an awakening in the hearts of the people l 805 Governor-General's Speech- D ebate on the Address 806 Monday, 7th December, 1959 17\'ln.

CooKE] who said: "We have been exploited for too long" .

There were many before Sir Alexander who said it was time for the people radical unions a nd what not.
I could mention Hon.

A. G. S. Coombs and other people like him - Marcus Garvey - treated better - to be w ~ Mr. Sinanan : Ricketts and Marcus Garvey!

M1:.

Cooke : E ven in this House, to day, Sir, you will find among us some of the people who recognised the mo vement then.

And when the people said, "Let us go forward", thank God there was a leader.

There was a leader.

And there were several leaders.


So it is not only food that we are asking for, we are asking not only for bet ter housing, not only for better living con ditions, not only for bread-for man shall not live by bread alone.

But there was a spiritual awakening that our people should be free, unencumbered by the Colonial yoke.

And that more t han anything, Sir, caused the people to move forward and so in those early days we felt that we should go it alone.

It was a great time, Sir.


If you were there you would have caught the inspiration.

It was a great time for those of us who were fighting together.

As knight of the chalk and duster I worked by .

day but by night I too was a labour leader, and I am happy that t here are people in this hon.

House who bore me company then-I bore them company.

And we walked together.


Unfortunately strange things happen and people lose the love they had before but the point I want to make is this: that the people of Ja maica said : " We want self-government" and they were working towards self-gov ernment.

Unfortunately, there was a stage when even among us there were leaders- and I don't call his name now to embarrass anybody over there-who wer e against self-government.
"You people can't have self-government, nothing like self-govern ment" and they fought me, and they fought Mr. Manley, and they fought some body else over the other side~he knows it-in the forward move to self-govern ment.

Because we held forth and we recog nised that t here was a call, all t he people of J amaica said: "We must have self government"; and we marched forward.
So now, Sir, when we have just reached there and when we recognised our sttength, and when we didn't need anybody to help us to fight and we fought alone it is a natural thing now t hat we should just stand a:t that point and rest on our oars.

And that is the cause of the attitude of the people of Jamaica.

There are among us those who know and recognise that it is time for our people to come together.

It has been is demonstrated in Western Europe, being demonstrated in N igeria, in Africa.
We have an N krumah, a man who has vision and Nkrumah will one day, I know, unite Africa.

I look forward to that day arid I know that the day is going to come when probably I might be dead and gone -or we might all have passed away-and there will be a force that will unite not only the British West Indies as they are now but will unite Cuba, Haiti and Puerto Rico-that day will come.

it And so, J\lfr.
it And so, J\lfr.

Speaker, I want us now to realise that the t ime has now come when all of us-from the different benches must walk hand in hand pursuing the coul:se of enlightening the people of The West Indies about the viability of 11.

F ed eration.

I am sorry, Sir, that my F riends have become extremely overburdened, and in capable of seeing the point I am making.
- ... --~ - - - , 807 Governor-General's Speecl1r- D ebate on the Address 808 ~ Monday, 7th December, 1959 Mr. Hill: Your history is very sketchy.

Mr. Cooke : Mr. Speaker, I could have given a full history today, but I would not give any history to embarrass my Friend, for we have walked together before.

I got tutelage from him, Sir, but the scholar outstripped the teacher.

I think we should all go out in the various Territories and literally preach the gospel of F ederation.
I , as you know, Sir, am a silent partner in this House and rarely say anything; but I wish to thank you for allowing me to say these few words.

see here.

It is public opinion that brought about that change in t hat notable gambl ing area.
It was public opinion operating through education and institutions like schools that have stopped Las Vegas from going further along that road, so that today we can see that the bikini bathing group-the bikini dancers have been thrown out and the sweet-mouthed Nelson Eddy of old can now come in to take the dancers' place.

Public opinion through education has brought that about.

Mr. Hill : Are they coming to The West Indies now ?
Mr. Afflick rose - Dr. Duhaney : I do not know where Mr. Sinanan : You will receive the affliction now.

Dr. Duhaney (Clarendon, Jamaica): Mr. Speaker, my hon.

Friend, the Mem ber for St. James (Mr. Cooke) laid the foundation-spread out a level foundation -and now we are going to ·put up the superstructure-a nice building on top of it, because education is the only thing that is going to help the people in this Federation.
Aud when I say "people," I mean everybody starting from down at the bottom to the very top.

We have no specific group-it is the one thing for everybody that is going to do this enorm ous job.

It is a big thing.

My hon.

Friend started to talk about how peaceful we are, and then he brought up the fact that he wished we could get an extraordinary stimulus to bring us to gether so that we could then see the light and see what unity could really do.

The hon.

Member gave an illustration about Las Vegas.


W e would like to tell him that that is just what we would like to they are going now.

This is a matter of education.

The University College of The West Indies comes under the Exclusive List, Iteml7; so it comes well within our scope and we can talk about it here.

We can do some thing about it here.

We have had one of the best reports on anything or any subject so far-the Cato R eport-put out on this subject.

I would like to see a debate on that Report.


May be next session we will get a full-dress debate on that subject and should hear things that should have been brought out all this time.

In Another Place the Cato Report was debated and it was such an occasion that for once the other House in the Trinidad got two whole pages Guardian--on account of the Cato Report.
Mr. Speaker, in this matter of education at University level, we would like to see a more positive approach made to both internal and external affairs, because it is written in this Throne Speech, and I quote: ~---- 809 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 810 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [DR. DuHANEY] " ...

I and my Ministers have concerned ourselves with establishing the Federal idea both at home and abroad".

It is written right in there - ' internal and external affairs'.
That is in the front.

Then, in column 10, he says : "My Government attaches particular im portance to the raising of educational standards throughout the Federation and hopes that Territorial Governments will continue to use our advisory services in this field."

Mr. Hill : That is when they can get an Adviser to travel.

Mr. W. B. Williams: They only decorate F ederal House.

Dr. Duhaney: In the front and in the rear you say what Government is doing about education in the Federation.
We would like to see it more in the field.

We would like to see an awakening and Advisers beginning to go out and not con fine themselves to their desks at home, and by "at home" I mean right here in Federal House.

A new positive approach to education must be made and that ap proach must set standards in t eacher training, in the training of experts, in train ing advisers and in training knowledgeable people so that they will- Mr. Hill : You left out training of Ministers.
Dr. Duhaney : up the positions now this Federation.

get out and take made possible by Technical people are now needed throughout The West Indies and we must begin at the University College level.

I feel that if we could get them we would cut out such things as mis-statements by in digenous people.
We can no longer talk about that when we have our own experts and knowledge able people giving advice where advice is sought, but we would like to set standards so that these people at University level would attain humility, tolerance, discipline and temperance.

These standards have disappeared not only from public life but from private life as well, and we would like to see an emphasis put on it in the best place where it can emerge, the foun tain-head, the University College of The West Indies.
These technical people will be returning to their T erritories; they will begin to teach; they will begin to exchange ideas in their social life; and these st andards can go with them t o their Territories.

We have to say something about politics.

Nowhere in this Speech do we find much about that, but the Federation of The West Indies is a big political endeavour, and the best person to talk about politics is a politician.
Therefore, we must begin to talk more and more about it, so that even at the "Cniversity College, it will be seen fit to put it down as a subject in the curriculum.

Politics must be explained; political science must be explained on a syst em of our past governments, our present set up and our future hopes when our Fed eration reaches Dominion status.

At the University College level, this can easily be done without any rancour.
The students will be taught and will be sent out in turn to teach what kind of government existed before, what form of government we have at present and what kind we will have in the future.
The differences will be ex plained; t he difference between a dictator ship with one Party doing everything and a democracy like ours with a two-party (1 ~ , 811 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 812 Monday, 7th Dece1nber, 1959 system in which the majority forms the Government side; and the difference of a state of anarchy such as we had in nearly all the Territories where splinter Parties existed and where each Party would form a dictatorship if it h appened to get the majority.
All of that must be explained so that people may understand where we now stand, where we are going and where we cam e from.

I now go from education to communica tions.

Under communications we only mean to talk about verbal communica tions.

VVe want a communication system properly organised under our educational system, which will give out information and persuasive arguments.

The newspapers cannot do this without help, and we can do it under Public Relations, Item a on the Exclusive List.
I give you an idea of what this Public Relations, this advertising, this persuasive communication, can do.

I would like to introduce into this House a supplement on Ghana in the "London Times" of November 9th.

I would like to say right off what a wonderful thing it is, how beautiful and how educative.

Parts of it I would like to read to this hon.

House so that you can see what can be done by verbal strong communications getting enough to turn into airplanes and things like items throughout the world.
This is written by Dr. Nkrumah.

It is a message which r eads in part:- that carrying these news "As for the future, we are determined to create in Ghana conditions that will continue to attract all types of foreign investment, par ticularly those suited to industrial development.

It is my hope that The Times, which is one of the most serious and well-informed newspapers known in Ghana will continue to present to the world a true picture of conditions obtaining in this country, for we are very conscious o!
the fact that businessmen all over the world take The Times very seriously in view of the accuracy of its reporting, and are therefore tremendously influenced by it ... " I would like to go on and read from It gives three ·"fhe First Experiment".

m ain factors about Ghana, and I r ead - " ...

The first is that Ghana is rich in na tural resources.

Making due allowance for size and head of population, it is probably the richest territory in Africa, south of the Sahara except for the Union of South Africa.
It is specially fortunate in being well balanced between agri culture and minerals .

... " "The second factor lies in the unbounded energies of the Ghanaian people.

They are great traders, ebullient, extroverts and reaching out for better things.

Their leaders are men given to long and exacting hours of work.
Thirdly, they are people not ashamed to make good the gaps in their own abilities and the state of historical development by working In harness with the British, who have had such a long association with the West Coast, and particularly with Ghana, in many and ever changing roles."

like things Communications : t hat coming out in a paper like this and being spread all over the world, with everything itemised.
Education : this wonderful Uni versity College of Ghana that has been paid for out of a cess on cocoa.

And here we are forever bemoaning the fact that we cannot contribute IO% towards ours.

This type of communication, this type of education, the type of matter and this form of public r elations that is going to wake up people and make them want to come to the Federation; make them want to come and set up industries, to come as tourists, make them want to see what is going on in the Federation.
813 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the A'ddress 814 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [DR. Dua ANEY 1 Mr. Speaker, we have always said a chain is as strong as its weakest link.

For this big educational programme in t he Federation we must have a list of our links.

People must know the links so that they can talk about them.

What are our links ?


They are links like Customs Union, for as such The West Indies is a big international structure more than ·it is comprised of little small T erritories, and so it demands more attc ntion and commands more res pect.

It is items like this that form the links we must spread out in our public relations, so that the world will know and people will talk and things happen.

These links build the chain.

And we must also have the weak links.


We must know that the link of population repre sentation is a weak link.

It is a weak link which is going to cause a lot of trouble.

We must explain that.

How often have you gone around and seen a crowd, and a big man and a little man standing in the middle, squared off with each other ?

I am telling you, if the big man knocks down the little man the crowd will say he is a coward, shame !
If the big man should receive a blow from the litt le man and he falls down, the crowd will say the big man is worthless.

Mr. Sinanan: The big man hasn't got a chance.

Dr. Duhaney : Mr. Speaker, if the big man, in his strength, should pat the little man, the crowd will say he is a coward.

So the big man has not got a chance, until his entire position is explained to the crowd, and they get to know it.

Then will in this they act.

That is the position matter of representation by ratio of population.
It is a serious thing.

People must know the whole situation or they might mis-judge.

They must know the ratio now.

That can be explained.

Another weak link, Mr. Speaker, is the cost of Government in The West Indies.

The people must know that we have about 271 legislators in The West Indies.

We have 58 Ministers, 50 without Portfolios.

is The amount of money $121,000,000.

That is the amount spent on Governments.

We have one of the most expensive Government set-ups the world.
One to every 12,000 people.

legislator involved in You should know that, because you are going to have to explain these things.

We must get at these facts through education.

Another weak link is the question of what, when, where and how are we ever going to have Dominion status.

That must also be explained.

You just cannot have no plans at all about it.

Plan for the futur~ and explain all your plans through public relations all through the Territories.
Then, and then only, will we get the feeling in the people of The West Indies for Fed eration.

We would then get the psychological urge to do it; the gradual climate neces sary for Federation.

We would develop the Federal mind.


That will depend to ~ large extent on hard work, instead of pom pous do nothingness or demoralising immobilism : The Federal attitude of getting service rather than giving some thing; the attitude of tolerance rather than prejudice, of justice rather than chicanery or intrigue; the attitude of alertness, of pliability, of timing rather than careless stolidity, is what is needed.
The Federal attitude of doing one's duty rather than forever demanding rights and privileges, is what we should foster.

815 Gov ernor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 816 M onday, 7th December, 1959 At times like these I wish that I really was ve1sed in the art of persuasive argu ment.
Because, Mr. Speaker, I would like with words to paint a picture of Federation, using the colours of the rainbow; using those of colours like t hat which we saw - us who were present upstairs in the Con in the picture "The Bright ference room - a picture of integration, a picture Land" - a picture of living to of co-exist ence - gether in all these T erritories washed by the waters of the beautiful Caribbean.

Bon.

Members : Hea.r, hear, hear !


Dr. Duhaney : Mr. Speaker, we who haYe spent long years in other countries can rcn!ly appreciate what is going on I remember attending t he Carib now.

bean Club founded in 1!

)03 which was later changed to the International Club.

I remember people like Azikiwe, Nkrumah, Padmore.

Marquez, Olliviere and Nya bongo.

I these remember people talking and talking, and painting this wonderful picture that we see developing before us today.
And, Mr. Speaker, it is an noying to see the negative approach which Government :Members, their in official release of the Speech, take.

like Mr. Hill : Remember the P.N.P.

Membei'S.

Dr. Duhaney: This, M r. Speaker, should be a positive thing.

T his needs It needs action.

It is life, it is blood.

alert ness and stimulating force.

And when we sit down here and listen to the hon.


Member from Middlesex telling us that the driving force that is in Africa today was inspired by West Indians who have lived there, then we wonder what has them ?

What has 1·eaily happened to happened to them ?

Why can we not push forward on our own in this Federa tion?

Mr. Hill : What has happened to us ?

Dr. Duhaney: Yes, what has hap pened to us?

Mr. W. B. Williams : what has happened to us; ready.
That's right, the people are Mr. Hill : We just join with the English to cut each other's throat.

D1·.

Duhaney: Mr. Speaker, I will have to bring some complaints to the notice of hon.

Members.

Mr. Sinanan: There are many!

6.35 p.m.: Sitting suspended.

8.15 p.m.: Sitting resumed.

Dr. Duhaney: Mr. Speaker, before the suspension of the Sitting for dinner, I was dealing with complaints.

The hon.

Prime Minister made two complaints re cently.


The first one had to do with newspapers, but we would not trouble ourselves with that one because we were told by the hon.

Minister of Finance that a school for journalism is going to be established next year.

M r .

Bradshaw : On a Point of Order, Mr. Speaker.

May I repeat what I said ?


I said that the Federal Government has made an application to the Secretary of State for the Colonies to secure a Colonial Development and Welfare grant for the purpose of enabling a course in journalism to be organised at the University College of The West Indies.

I did not say that a: school of journalism is to be established, desirable though it may be.

.,,.

817 Governor-General's Speech,- Debate on the Address 818 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Dr. Duhaney: We thank the hon.
Minister very much for his explanation, and I hope that will also satisfy the Prime Min ister.

Now the second complaint had to do with the fact that industrialists were look ing for a good political climate in order to establish their factories, regardless of how many other facilities were advanced.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to see our public relations set-up advertising our stable political climate.
I would like to see them making statements concerning how nicely the Government Party and Her Majesty's Opposition get along here and in other places.

A good stable political clim ate is the best advertising medium to bring industries in The West Indies.

The next advertising medium is an efficient labour force.

We have it here.

The bauxite com panies in Jamaica are still bragging and saying that the ordinary workers hired by them have proved themselves to be the best they have ever met in any country.
A good efficient labour force.

And the third advertising medium is a good labour-man agement relationship.

Let the public rela t ions people get busy on that.

Spread it iu newspapers.

Don't pick at little faults about what is said by someone to another, but put it in the newspapers that we are ready for industrial development.

We are ready for industrialisation.

The political climate is stable; the labour force is effi cient and the labour unions are well admin istered.

Let that be the driving force.


Go about it as if you are selling a motor car, as if you are selling building lots; it is a wonderful thing.

My complaint is that we are all afraid; we are travelling on thin ice and too gingerly.

Get out there, arid if you walk on the ice other people will come out there; but as long as yo u stand up on the brink, touching it, nobody else will follow you.

Mr. Rocheford : If the ice is thin we will all drown.
Dr. Duhaney: Well, we go down and sink together or we swim · and get saved; we will all get saved.

Mr. Sinanan: They will attract sharks and we will all suffer.

Dr. Duhaney: These complaints can only be straightened out by information.

Even if we have to use the Russian method.

In Russia they have two: lzvestiya, mean information; and Pravda, meaning ing truth.

The information (Izvestiya) is used for propaganda.
Even if we have to do that we must put across to the people that we a.re selling something.

It_ is good, it is safe and they will buy it.

.Mr.

Speaker, I cannot close without bringing up two of the worst things that have happened to us in the whole idea of Federation.

Nobody told me this - it is my psychic impression.

The first big reason for the choke in F ederation so far is Span ish Acres.

It is impossible for a man to live in fear and be happy.
It is absolutely im possible for a man to live in fear of loneli ness, in fear of being shut in, in fear of bad water, in fear of bad roads and bad ap proach, in fear of snakes, in fear of fear · itself and be a happy man.

That one thing has put up a choke and I don't know how we are going to get rid of it.

The whole choke of the hon.

the Prime Minister has been directly traceable to Spanish Acres and we allowed him to live up there.
We 819 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 820 Monday, 7th December, 1959 should have said, "No, Sir, go any place else, but not t here".

The next more serious point is Chaguara mas.

The ordinary people discuss, argue and talk about it.

And to see that now in the second Throne Speech we still have no policy, no position to declare on Chaguara mas, and no Federal Capital - no policy has been discussed!
In the United States the common man is now aware that Chag uaramas is an $800,000,000 investment.

Two hundred million of them have paid, say, $4.00 each - to build this place.

And we want to take it away.

We have no policy to express our purpose for it .

It is the common man fight ing the common man.

Both are paying taxes and talking about it and there is no communication between the higher levels, no public relations to explain anything.
There is going to be uneasiness if no policy is set down on Chaguaramas.

their tax money - Mr. Speaker, If we are going to get ahead, if we are going to forge ahead, we will have to get a different and more progressive educational outlook and express it through our public relations and our University College of The West Indies.

I hope that all of my criticisms will in spire the Government because I have offered them in a constructive rather than destructive way.
I believe in Federation, because from earliest days I have been taught that unity is strength; but I believe it is only possible if we shake up ourselves and push it forward to where it should go.

No one else can help us.

We have to do it.

Mr. Speaker, we want the Government's public relat ions officers to tell us the true facts.

If we get those facts, we can explain them to the common man and he will be able to t ?.lk about them.
This day to day, man-to-man talk is the greatest moving force in any Government in the world.

When they meet and talk, discuss and ar gue, that is public opinion-the irresistible force that will break down any barrier.

The Throne Speech, so far as education is con cerned is absolutely devoid of any facts at all.

We well realise that the most we can do is to offer advisory services, but we have not even got any advice.

It is up to us to seek and find that advice.


We can put out pamphlets and send them around.

People are interest ed in Federation.

They want to know.

For instance, we have got 80 to 90 people up at my little place every day asking me about Federation, ask ing what they are to expect from F edera tion.

I would like to tell them something.

I would like to give them something they could carry home and read.
I would like to give them some literature with your head ing, the heading of the Federal Govern ment on it; but up to now I can't; all I can show them is newspaper reports and clip pings.

Mr. Speaker, it is not my intention to keep this hon.

House any longer.
House any longer.

I com mend these criticisms to the Government benches and we hope in the near future something constructive, something pliable, something alert, something positive might be put into Government's policy so that next year when we have another Throne Speech, that might be incorporated into it as Government's policy .

Mr. W. B. Williams: Two hundred runs on the board, man !
Mr. Afflick (Portland, J amaica) : Mr. Speaker, I have to congratulate His Excel lency for preparing a Throne Speech out of Government's inactivity.

We, on this side 821 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 822 Monday, 7th· December, 1959 [Mn.

AFFLICK] of the House, expect to offer constructive criticisms which, if adopted, will allow the Throne Speech next year to be full with something progressive, something accom plished.
From time to time, Sir, we have been labouring in this House trying to instill in the minds of the Government that it should not come here and sit and talk power poli tics: Government is more concerned with power politics in this House than with con structive policies.

The Member for St James justly said that when the name of Sir Alexander Bus t amante is mentioned in this House it should be mentioned with reverence.
I want i\l[embers of the Government to re member that it was Sir Alexander Busta mante who in 1938 created the political incentive- .

Mr. Ricketts: That is untrue.

You mean it was Manley ?

Mr. Afflick: It was Bustamante whose political awareness created the progress we are enjoying today not only in Jamaica but in the entire West Indies.

Hon.

Members : What about Cipriani?

Mr. Afflick: I commend the hon.


Member for St. James, Jamaica, for being bold enough to stand up on the Govern ment side and make a statement like that.

further responsibility ?

I can remember the Minister of Labour and Social Affairs saying some time ago, 'Give us the tools and we will do the job'.

Mr. Speaker, this Government has been fast asleep.

T he same Speech last year, the same this year - stagnation.

Mr. Ricketts: You are quoting.


Mr. Afflick: Only the Minister of Agriculture has been blossoming into silviculturing.

What we have been trying to tell this House from last year is, that we want the Ministers of Government to be more responsible.

No example, in my opinion, is being set by the Prime Min ist er .

He is like a petulant child.

You can't create confidence in this House or outside of this House by adopting that attitude.

Mr. Ricketts : Ken wrote your speech for you.


Mr. Afflick : Mr. Speaker, t he Min ister of Agriculture forgets the behaviour of the Prime Minister in this House over the last couple days and now he goes so far as to tell me that Ken Hill wrote my speech; but I would like Members on that side of the House to be able to write a speech like Ken Hill.

Mr. Ricketts: Ken tricked you.

H is Excellency said : " .

.

.


Meanwhile, my Government proposes to raise the question, during this Session, of the constitutional status of the F eder al Govern ment with a view to providing for full Cabinet responsibility".

May I ask, Mr. Speaker, whether this.

Government has provided the nucleus for Mr. i\.fflick: No hon.

Minister, except, probably, the Prime Minister, can do it.
I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that when the the Pi:ime Minister was selected by Premier of Jamaica to lead the Federal Government, it was at least }hought that (the Prime Minister) would have he \ .. ...--- -~ 823 Governor-Gen eral's Speech-- D ebate on the Address 824 M onday, 7th D ecember, 1959 that leadership provided that would strengthen the F ederation and t he Federal Government; bu t, in my opinion, t his Government, t his Cabinet is weak, very weak.
I take it that the Council of Stat e is in is consultation a posit ion where there before a decision is taken .

.

.

.

Hon.

Members : Consultation ?

Mr. Afflick: Yes, consultation; I did not say 'boujay'.

There should be con sultation before policy is determined.

From the b ehaviour of Members of t his House, it does appear to me that M embers on t he Government benches are t old by the Prime Minist er to sit down in their places.

Hon.

Membe1·s : Discipline.


Mr. Afflick : We are speaking of agri culture.

They say t hat t he Agricultural Ministry is advisory .

I agree when they say t hat the F ederal GovernmeD'l is sup posed to advise Unit Govern·.a ents, but they should not st op there.

They should not only advise; they should go t o those Unit Territories and ask the Government s to let them give advice, because some of these Governments are tardy in asking Ministers for advice.
I would ask the Minist er of Agriculture to t ell us the different prices of produce in J amaica - where he belongs - now, and the prices that exist ed ten years, five years and two years ago.

We want an agricultural policy that can be adopted th,roughout the T erritories.

H e knows that the agricultural policy in Jamaica today is in chaos, because loans are obtained through the Agricultural Loan Bank, -yet two-thirds of the farmers in J amaica are people who farm rented lands.
I would like a nybody t o deny that .

Two thirds of the farming communit y in Ja maica work on rented lands, and up to now the Government has not formulat ed a policy to give t hese people assistance in working t he lands that belong to ot her people.

T hose are some of the things we want this Government to go into and to sug gest to other Governments how best to care these people.

-[Interruption].

The M inister of Agriculture seems to b e in a very jocular mood tonight.

for Mr. Ricketts : .


What about the amount of land you have in Jamaica?

l\1h'.

Afflick : We are not concerned with just a policy for part of the farming community .

What we want is to see this Government keep on suggesting t o other Governmen ts how t hey can best serve the interests not of the few, not of certain portions, but of all the farmers in the F ed eration.

It is on that question that we speak out.


We wan t tourism; it is a means of earn ing dollars and all t hat , but in t he case of a prot racted war, t hat industry would flop.

The West Indies t oday are mainly agricul tural, and t oo great au accent cannot be placed on agriculture because there lies the ba·ckbone of t he West I ndian economy.

Mr. Ricketts : H ear, hear !

Mr. Afflick: I am happy to hear the hon.


M inister say "Hear, hear", because what we are doing is t o advise and t each Members of the Government b enches t hat this is not just a place where you meet and ,-- - - 825 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Add1·ess 826 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [MR. AFFLICK] discuss matters and crack jokes, as the Prime Minister does when he gets into difficulties.
We want a policy formulated in order to assist the majority of t he people in the Federation, and because of that we are giving as much advice as we can to assist the Ministers.

I would like the Minister of Agriculture and Natural Resources to know that the prices of agricultural produce in Jamaica, the country from which he comes, are de clining.

When they decline, stagnation sets in; they never rise again.
I asked the Minister of Trade and In dustry last week what was the position where honey was concerned?

The Minister [Interruption].

I am cannot advise me - not talking of Ministers now, I am talking of a particular Minister.

I asked what was the position where the honey industry was concerned.

I take it that this Government is here to investigate the policy of creating export markets.

They should be in a posi tion, once a question is asked, to tell us just what the position is in X, Y or Z Ter ritory.
You have been nearly two years in power.

It is time for you to have made a certain amount of provision.

Mr. Ricketts: Where did that word come from?

Mr. Afflick: We are offering this advice for the future.

Let us bury the past.

What has been achieved in the past would be achieved by a Parish Council.

Let us, as from now on, come to the realisation that we must take ourselves to that stage of Federal responsibility - not Unit responsi bility, not Jamaica or Trinidad or Barba dos.
We must realise that they are here to create a Federal policy.

The Government is not doing that now.

It is only concerned with power politics.

They say let us bring down the Opposition.

Let us keep them from saying anything.

Mr. Rose : Let u s put them in their places.

Mr. Afflick: The Minister of Com munications is the chief means- Mr. Ricketts : He is now reading page 5.

Mr. Afflick : The Minister of Natural Resources seems very amused, but the people in St. Anns are not amused.
The people in St. Anus want to hear something from him, Mr. Speaker.

They want to know what is really his position here.

He is in charge of a Minist ry.

What they want to say is that the hon.

Minister from Jamaica is not winning his spurs; but winning his spurs does not mean coming here to heckle.

He should leave that to the back-benchers.

,vhat we want is action, and a policy that will show that this Government is alive to its responsibilities and will make the Units satisfied.
Last week, Mr. Speaker, the Prime Min ister said there was too much talk of Man ley, the Prime Minister of Jamaica.

There is too much criticism of Bustamante.

The Member from St. James has just told you that when Sir Alexander Bustamante's name is mentioned here it shoqld be with reverence.

Yet we are hearing all sorts of gibes.

Sir Alexander is the man who has created the incentive.

Mr. Cooke: For what?

Mr. Afflick: For West Indian nation hood.


It was in 1938, as the Member fo.r St. James, Jamaica, has said, the Carib bean woke up one morning to realise that the inhabitants were not prepared- ' ---~- - ~., 827 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on t he Address 828 M onday , 7th December, 1959 Mr. Cooke : Mr. Speaker, I am being misquoted to such an extent that I must appeal to you.

I don't think the hon.

:\'{ember from Portland should trust his memory.


And I would advise him to wait and get the records and quote me cor rectly.

Mr. Speaker: If he waits for the printed record, he will be back home.

Mr. Cooke : That is a pity, Sir.

Mr. Afflick: Mr. Speaker, will the hon.

Member enlighten me as to what he actually said ?

Mr. Cooke: As I did not have any body to give me tutelage, I spoke ex I did not have any t emporaneously.

speech written.

Mr. Afflick : The situation in this hon.


House, I am happy to see, is becoming a little less a ntagonistic.

I was happy to see the M ember for Antigua speaking as he did, also t he Member for Dominica.

It is clearly seen that there is frustration existing on the Government benches.

The speeches we have heard tonight from the Government benches prove conclusively that something is wrong, and we, therefore, e:xl)ect a new policy.

The Prime Minist er is not here.


Apparently he was so disgusted with his backbenchers, he had to quit.

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we have been advising this Government since last year, every day without avail.

We are satisfied that t oday their poor understanding is being enlightened, because we have never seen back-benchers on the Government side getting up and speaking so outright on policies that this side has always been putting forward.
I hope, Mr. Speaker , it will be the beginning of the end of power politics in this H ouse and that cooperation and progress will ensue.

What we would like Government Minis ters to do is get themselves acquainted with the ills of the 10 Units of the Federation, and not just sit down and wait until a Unit Government sa:v, "we have a dead here and a sick there."

This Government was created for what purpose?

Only to advise the Unit Gov t;rnments?

It was created t o hold these 10 Units together.


To do t hat they have got to know what is actually taking place in the other Units and, to the best of their ability, rectify those wrongs.

That does not require money.

The Unit Governments have already d ecided that they should cooperate with the Federal structure.

Anrl if proper advice is given t o them, I feel they will be happy to implement those plans they have of cooperating with the F ederal Government .
I would like this Government to declare certain policies, and when they have ad vised Unit Governments on them, to say that it has done so.

And let the public know.

There is nothing to prove a Govern ment like public opinion.

A thing is very good for a Unit and yet the people know nothing about it.
I am asking this Government, Sir, as from this Session, to interest themselves not only in the F ederal House but also in the 10 Units by going there and seeking information; not only t hrough the Govem ment Ministers but also by other Members making visits to the different Territories to get the information required in order for progress to be made in these individual T erritories.

Not until then will we see some progress.


~- ...... ~ -r~ 829 Governor-General's Speechr- Debate on the Address 830 Monday, 7th D ecernber, 1959 [MR. AFFLICK] The Minister of Labour and Social Af fairs said money was needed.

Money is a very · good thing.

The Ministers like t o speak about money .

We agree.

But it is not money we are talking about.

There are lots of things which are not done with money; things that are done with zeal and courage.
T here are many things that are done without money; things that are done because we make up our min ds t o do a job.

And we find the means to do them without money.

I would humbly submit, Mr. Speaker, that the Ministers in particular should use some of their travelling allowances to do just what I have asked them t o do - visit these Territories; have discussions with their Governments and later issue a White Paper, whatever they want to do, make notes when the people make suggestions.
We are not concerned with the few but with the masses of the people in the areas, the people who have been frustrated through the years.

These people, who have now heard a Federal Government is in be ing, are expecting the blessings denied them in the past.

They hope it will now reach them by having a Government above Gov ernments.

That is the duty we are here to do.

I commend to the Government for their consideration the things said by this side of the House.
9.00 p.m. Mr. Robinson (Tobago): Mr. Speaker, before the hon.

Member for Portland (Mr. Afflick) spoke I was beginning to feel rather reluctant to disturb, even slight ly, the end-of-term atmosphere which seems to be prevailing in this House today.

Indeed I must remark - it has been said on pre that there is a certain vious occasions - amount of realism and sobriety which has not been present on a similar occasion in the past, and that of course, Mr. Speaker, 1s welcome.
I most graciously acknowledge the com pliment which has been paid to my con stituency by the Venerable, or shall I say t he hon.

and Venerable Member for Mid cllesex.

I would like to assure him, on be h alf of the people of Tobago, t hat we accept whole-heartedly the decision of the West Indian leaders in respect to the siting of the F ederal Capital, and we will give them every support, of which we are capable, in their endeavour t o secure that site which they have freely chosen themselves.
I, of course, refer to Chaguaramas.

I entirely agree, Mr. Speaker, that it is the only site in Trinidad which compares with sites which we have in Tobago.

So mQch for the compliments which have been paid by the other side.

M r. Speaker, in spite of t he amiability and the charm that have been displayed in this Debate, I have still been looking an1 waitmg for some stat ement of policy frC' the alternative government.
An Opposition, Mr. Speaker, in a democratic parliament, is expected not only to criticise the Govern ment, not only to hold the Government up to task for what the Government has done, or what it has not done, or has done badly, but to present some alternative to the voters; some policy which is different from t hat of the Government's, between which the vot ers must choose.
If one were to gauge from the speeches which have been made, it would appear that there are only little differences ; a little hen-pecking here and there.

For no pattern, no consist ent coherent syst em of thought has emerged; no ideas from which one can gather what l. ~ .... .

-,--.

831 Governor-General's Speechr-- Debate on the Address SSQ Monday, 7th December, 1959 is likely to be t he policy of the Opposition if it ever has the good fortune of coming into power.
And so, however I might ap pear to disturb the honeymoon atmosphere which has been prevailing so far, I am forced to take the hon.

Gentlemen opposite to task for not performing their constitu tional and political duty so far.

Mr. W. B. Williams : As yet.

M r .

Robinson: I said "so far".

Per haps when the hon.

Member for Surrey rises to speak we might hear the first au thentic expression of policy which so far has been lacking on the benches opposite.
M r. Speaker, this occasion, as it is almost unnecessary to r emark, marks the second year in the history of this Federal Parlia ment, and on occasions of this kind it is often useful, and not m erely an academic exercise, but one which is stimulating, one is helpful, to go back into the which fundamental purposes and objects of the Federation which we have brought into being.
And here may I refer to a document in which is to be found what I consider the most succinct and the most apt description of the fundamental purposes and objects of this Federation that I have seen anywhere.

I refer to a Party document, but the ideas which it expresses transcend party.

It is the Election Manifesto of The West Indies Federal Labour P arty, and it was published for the election which took place on the Q5th March, 1958.
And the second para graph goes like this, Mr. Speaker, in a way which I said crystallizes better than I have ev_er seen, the fundamental objects and purposes of the Federation.

Speaking of the election which was then about to take place, the document says : "This occasion will be one of historic significance for the people of the area, for it will mark the end of centuries of existence as individual Units each looking to its own affairs to the exclusion of the affairs of the others.
rt will mark tb.e com mencement of an era of co-operation, when these Isla.nds whose existence in isolation as individual Units, can no longer be justified economically or otherwise, in the m odern world, will now seek by unified action to improve the conditions of the area .

They will seek to speak with one voice, so that the Federation will be a ble to play a full part as an equal partner in the British Common _ wealth of Nations and as a participator in the councils of th e nations of the world."
So there you have, l\fr.

Speaker, very beautifully crystallized, the economic and political objects of the Federation.

And then there came into being t he Federal Parliament; and there was elected the Fed the eral Government; and since F ederal Government has been pursuing a policy.

I would be very happy, Mr. Speaker, to hear from the hon.

Gentlemen opposite, what is the alternative policy that they would have pursued in the circumstances.
then So far, we have been subjected to differ ent voices from the hon.

Gentlemen oppo site - sometimes inconsistent, sometimes incoherent, sometimes inaudible.

We are still entitled to expect, even at this stage, some stat ement of where they differ from us, and what they would do if they came into power.

I hope that by now - and the hon.

Member for Surrey may be particularly interested in this - all talk of secession is going to be banished from the political at mosphere of The West Indies.
I say so in all seriousness, because of the tremendous task of development which lies before us.

The moment there is the impression in the outside world that t he future of t he Feder at ion is uncertain, the moment prospective ,.
,- ~ 833 Governor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 834 Monday, 7th December, 19159 [MR. ROBINSON] investors, looking forward to invest in the hope of having a West Indian market, are told that t he idea of that market is in jeopardy, you are jeopardizing the econo mic future, not of one island, but every Unit in the F ederation.

Mr. Hill: That is the Jekyl side of The West Indies Federal Labour Party !
Mr. Robinson : Whether you like it or not, whether Jamaica likes it or not, whether Barbados likes it or not, all thesf' Units -- together in a while.

All Mr. Hill : What about Tobago ?

Mr. Robinson : I will tell you about Tobago these Units are in this Federation which has created a great deal of interest, enthusiasm aroused even which has in some quarters of the world.
I have absolutely no doubt that the activities of t hose who guide the Federation and of t hose who profess to lead the people in t he their words, their actions, the con area - cept that they have of the future of The West Indies - all of these are going to play a very important part in determining what attitude people in the outside world will have to us in The West Indies.
So that any talk of secession, which gives the im pression that t he future of the nation is uncertain, that t he question of a West In dian market is in jeopardy, or in some way imperilled, any such talk is damaging to t he entire F ederation.

Mr. Speaker, I would not for a moment attempt to give the impression that there are not very grave difficulties confronting this Federation.
Indeed any young Federa tion has its difficulties - we probably have in t erms of distance, in terms of lack of communications - which the hon.

Minis t er of Communications and Works is now to remedy - endeavouring difficulties which other Federations did not have to the same extent.

But we also have the good fortune of the experience of other Federa tions by which we can be guided.

And once we are determined - and hon.


Members opposite have time and again expressed the determination - to preserve the Federa t ion, there is no point in looking back.

One has to adopt a positive attitude.

Once you are determined to p reserve the Federation, from there, there can only be movement forward and not a looking backward.
We will have our conflicts, we will have om they may sometimes border on quarrels - the violent - but let all of them be con ducted within the context of the national welfare, within the context of the national interest.

You do not, because you disagree, try to divide the country in half, carry off one half and leave other people with the rest.
What you do is to get together, like rational men, iron out your difficulties, arrive at solutions or at any rate attempt to arrive at solutions- Mr. Hill : Wrangle for nine days.

Mr. Robinson : think I can say I something of the Int er-Governmental Con ference since the hon.

Member has men tioned talk of wrangling for nine days.
As I see it, the most significant feature of the Inter-Governmental Conference, so far, bas not been the wrangling or anything like that; it has been t he introduction of princi ple acceptance of princi ple in the debate as a basis of discussion.

And once you begin to talk about principle in the sphere of representat ion it is going to be very difficult to repudiate principle in other matters.
If you :want to be repre sented on the basis of principle you also have got to think of principle in terms of and the ------- - - -, 835 Gov ernor-General's Speech- Debate on the Address 836 Monday, 7th December, 1959 Customs Union - in t erms of freedom of movement of people and goods.
I don't know if the Member for Surrey had any hand in it but if he did perhaps he didn't intend the result which has ensued, but what it means is this : that the whole dis cussion has now been lifted from the level of self-interest to the level of principle and we hope that the hon.

Members opposite - Mr. Hill: On both sides of Jamaica.

Mr. Robinson : On both sides of Ja maica, I quite agree .

....

I don't see any reason why the hon.


M ember should be so happy about it; he is a Mem ber of the Federal Parliament and even though he may not think it, even though many of us in this House may not appre ciate it, we are here not to represent a Unit interest.

I don't know on what basis the campaigns of some hon.

Members opposite were conducted but.


what I do know is this, Mr. Speaker : in the campaigns of which I am aware, and in the Party to which I belong, it was made quite clear to the elec torate that when you elect a Member to the Federal Parliament he goes there to represent a Federal interest and not a Unit interest.

So it is one thing to come here and t.o talk about the Federal Government having to gain the consent of the Unit Gov ernment before it does this and before it does that; and when I hear hon.
Members opposite speak they sound like Members nominated by the Government and not elected directly by the votes of the people.

You will expect a nominated M ember of some of the Units to talk in the way that some of these Members have talked.

"You must not act without the consent of our Government."

Why not say that you must not be elected without the consent of a Government?

Federal systems, Mr. Speak- er, with the greatest respect, do not operate that way.
If you have two governments and a federal system, consisting of gov ernments which are co-ordinate in power, both operating directly upon the people, if you have such a syst em of government each of those governments - the federal government and the unit government - must have the power to t ax; must have the power to carry out services.

Time and again hon.
Time and again hon.

Members opposite have risen and demanded action from the Govern ment - and of course they are ent itled to demand action, the people of The West Indies are entitled to demand action from the F ederal Government.
In every country of the world today people are demanding but the cu action of the Government - rious thing in The West Indies today, the curious thing in the world today - is that the latest government which has been formed has the most backward philosophy underlying its Constitution.

And it is a philosophy which not one of t he hon.

Mem bers opposite would apply to their own Unit Governments.
Time and again you hear the Members opposite from Jamaica get up and talk of the dynamism of th<> Jamaica Government, of t he positive action of the Jamaica Government, of the inter ventionist policy of the Jamaica Govern ment and yet they don't want the Federal Government to interfere, they don't want the Federal Government to be positive.

On the one hand they demand action from the Government and on the other they seek to deprive it of any means of effective power whatsoever.
Obviously that must have been the effect of the Motion put for ward by the hon.

Member opposite if ever it was passed.

And that is the trouble, Mr. Speaker, I suggest, not only in this House, it is the trouble in the F ederation.

Hon.
Hon.

837 Governor-General's Speec~ Debate on the Ai/,dress 838 Monday, 7th December, 1959 [MR. ROBINSON] Members opposite, some of them not all of I use the expression of the Prime them - lVIi11ister, there are one or two ardent Fed erat ionist s on the other side - but the trouble is that hon.

Members opposite - most of them- are blowing hot and blowing cold.

Approbating and reprobating the Fed eration all at one and the same time.
You can't do that if you want to build up a Federal Government a nd if you want to destroy the F ederal system then why get elected to the Federal Parliament?

Why, may I ask, Mr. Speaker, does one a ccept a seat in the Federal Parliament if one is going to undermine the Federation in one's own Constituency ?

We have reached the stage where we m ust declare as Members, once and for all, what is our attitude the Federation.
Your attitude towards towards the Federat ion is not the same as your attitude towards the Government and a distinction must be made b etween the two.

I hope hon.

Members opposite, I believe all of them, are aspiring to be a Minister or even the P rime Minister of t he Federation at some time or other.

Their aspirations may be frustrat ed .

.

.

Mr. W. B. Williams: Very soon.

Mr. Robinson : I seem to hear the voice of frus tration coming from down b elow.
Mr. Hill : You are talking about the p ost of Attorney-General in the Trinidad Government.

· Mr. Robinson : M r. Speaker, if the hon .

M ember desires, I can talk about the post of Attorney General in Trinidad.

However, if you are an alternative gov ernment, t hen you do not destroy the very basis on which you sit in this House.

You pursue a policy by which people can accept you as an alternative government .

And that is not too much to expect from Members opposite.
Time and again I have h eard them say "We represent a Territory in which there are people who are opposed to Federation" .

A large section of their con stituency is anti-F ederation.

Presumably the logic is because a large section of the constituency to which they belong is anti Federation those representatives must b e anti-Federation.

What then is the object in coming to t he F ederal Parliament?
L et me emphasize what I have said a that in my opinicm the time while ago - has come for a definite and honest attitude towards the F ederation .

If you are a F ed eralist you try to influence opinion, you try to convince people of the benefits, of the necessity of Federation.

For instance, I was questioned about this while I was in Ja maica : 'How do you expect us to have any sense of brotherhood towards you in Tri nidad when we have not known you for so long?
It is only now we have begun to know you a nd to hear about you .

How do you expect us to have a sense of brother hood towards you when in the past we have been closer t o the p eople of the United States of America a nd Canada a nd even West Africa?'
:My answer was this: I have never known Jamaicans until very recently b ut I have known about the idea of Federation and studied the idea of Federation; I have con sidered the logic in F ederation, I have con sidered the purpose, I have considered the object of Federation and I have come to the conclusion as many other persons have come - that there is no fut ure for T he West Indies except by the F ederal syst em of Government .
r- ~ I.. ....., 839 Governor-General's Speech-- Debate on the Address 840 Monday, 'lth D ecember, 1959 Hon.

Members : Hear, hear !

Mr. Sinanan : Who disputes that?

Mr. Robinson: It is difficult to imagine at this stage in the history of The W est I n dies and of the world, any one can t hink of any of these islands going it alone.

And, the pessimism tha t prevails, it is difficult to imagine why.
Often we are distur bed and distrac ted in this House and elsewhere by certain noises emanating from the absentee leadership of hon.

Gentlemen opposite in Jama ica.

It is difficult to understand how people can feel that these islands can pur sue th eir independent existence.
Even if this were possible and progressive Govern ments came into power in all the T erri tor ies, we are going to experience before long a great deal of clashing of interests and cut t ing of t hroat s to the detriment of everybody in the area.

Probably St .

Lucia could go it alone, Barbados can, even T o b ago can - remember Tobago once ran her own affairs - develop separately .
B ut, we do realise that if we attempt to do t hat the methods we would have to use would result in harm not only to the Territories individually but to the area as a whole.

Some, indeed several M embers, have been mentioning t he matter of small Is lands.

I would like to refer to the attit ude which prevails in some quarters in respect of the smaller Islands, the attitude of people who proclaim that they h ave more money in their pockets than other islands have revenue.
Mr. Sinanan : It was Williams who said so.

Mr. Ricketts: I t was Bustamante.

M r .

Robinson: It is significant that that very attitude to the smaller Islands is the very one which some M embers opposite and their leaders have been complaining ah011t from the British Government.

They use<l t o be told they have no money, they callnot clcvclop, they do not h ave the re somces, they do not have the man power, tl1ey do not have the human material.

M y hon.
M y hon.

Friend opposite does not like to h ear about the effects of colonialism, but one of the c1ects of colonialism is that it instils in the minds of t he people a feeling of in adeq uacy, a feeling t hat they can do noth ing without the colonial power.

It propa gates t he view tha t whatever is to be done must be left to the businessman.

That phil osophy preva iled t hroughout The West Indies until J amaica woke up.
This philos ophy of laissez faire which has b een rejected by every lc>::idcr in Jamaica and in the en t ire world is being preached by t he DLP today in Trinidad a nd Tobago.

This is the result of Colonialism which some hon.

Members opposit e do not realise.

Jamaica is doing now what countries like P uerto R ico have b een doing b efore.
I t ought t o be obvious to anyone who has been look ing a t the political developments a nd the economic developments in the world today t hat a Government in the 20th cen t ury cannot produce results when it is being restricted by a 19th century consti tution.

9.30 p.m. D ebate interrupted in accordance with to be resumed Standing Order 9 (2): tomorrow (Tuesda y, 8th D ecember) .
tr ~..,_ 841 Inter-Gov eniniental Conference Oral Answer t o Question 842 (Report) Mondciy, 7th December, 1959 INTER-GOVERNMENTAL CONFERENCE (Report) The Minister of Trade and Industry (Dr. LaCorbiniere): Mr. Speaker, I should like, on behalf of the hon.

Prime ':VIinister, to name tomorrow (Tuesday) for proceeding with the Motion s tanding in his name on today's Order Paper.
Motion- " Be it R esolved that this House takes note of the Report of the Inter-Gov ernmental Conference on Review of the F ederal Constitution which was laid on the Table of the House on 30th November, 1959" .
ORAL ANSWER TO QUESTION Governor-General's House (Furnishing) Mr. W. B. Williams (St. Catherine, Jamaica) asked the Minist er of Communi ca tions and Works to st ate for th e informa tion of the House whether the amount of money provided for t he furnishing of the Governor-General's residence has been full y expended a nd accounted for.

W ill the Minist er furt her lay on the Table a statement showing the total pro vision made and details as to how this money has b een expended ?
It follows from t he a nswer t o t he first part of the Question tha t the information requested to be laid on the T able cannot be ;;o la id until the necessary reconciliation has been completed .

I , however, wish to assure t he; hon .

:ivlem b er and the House that such reconciliation has been and is continuing to receive the attention of my Ministry .
Its completion has been unavoidably delayed by the fact that some of t he t ra nsactions involved re: la te to t h e period pr ior t o the establish ment of the Federal T reasury when pay ments were made by the Goyernment of Trinidad and Tobago on behalf of the Federal Government.

Mr. Hill (Surrey, Jamaica): Will t he hon.

M inist er a nswer a supplementm·~· Question?


Will he sa:v wh ethe1· the recon ciliation is b etween t he money t hat has allegedly been spent on t he furnishing of the Governor-General's H ou~e and the furnit ure ?

Is it a reconciliation bet wee n the money and t he furniture?

Mr. Rose : iVIr.

Speaker, if the hon.

M ember wishes me to answer the supple mentary Question, I would ask him to give me due notice.

M r .

Hill: I agree, Sir, 6 ut , in the meant ime, will the h on.
M;inist er take the necessary s teps to get some aged, re tired policewoman t he matter for him ?

inv1stigatc to The Minister of Communications and Works (Mr. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the answer to the first part of the Question is in the negative.

DEF'ENCE (AMENDMENT) BILL The Minister of Finance (Mr. Brad shaw): Mr. Speaker, with your per- L e.:., .

.
.

-- 843 Defence ( Amendment) Bill 844 Monday, 7th December, 1959 mission I would seek the authority of the House for taking the Second Reading of the Defence (Amendment) Bill tomor row.

Agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT Resolved, That this House do now ad journ.-[M r. Bradshaw].

Adjourned accOTdingly at 9.40 p .m.

~