Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698068421893.pdf (Guyana)
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u10 :Jj embers 1Present.

LEGlsiJAn vE· Cou.Ncit.

.. � - .

-... � ·• -� .� \ · Bill.

-:-G,G" _'l'ariff Uustoin1, ::<" lEGISLAHVE 'COUNCIL TI.

C. ITmuplu·yK 'l'hC' Jlo!lonr,tlJlc for Georgetown).

Tl1c Honourable N. Ca'Jmon (Senior 1\Ic1lll.Je1· ., Friclay, 11th Jciutrnr!J, l!.):!!).

'l'hc Council 111ct 1rnrs11,a11t to adjunrn­ mcut, IT.i:, Bxc1,r.L1 Bm<.

:.11JL1i1:-U 1-;xi:;1:.1r, mmu, K.U.

:.\I.U., D.8.0., •:�<.

:Y TJrn 811: UuHDo:-, U i;t.;1;i:;­ Guri-:1:�ui:, l'i-c�ident, in tll.J 'l.
'Lc JI oa(;lm1 l:lc l'el'<:y :i.\Icmuer for Gco1·gctown).

C. ·w;ght (Jmiior The Honouraulc J. GonsalYes (:Mem­ (:.\Ieml.Jer .for East IDcmerara).

A. V. Cr:rnc, LL.B.

for West <Demcr:ua).

Tll'� ITonoura111c , ( :.\Iemuc1· Loncl.)

1'1:Jo;�E�'l'.

lJcr for Gcorgelo\\"11).

.I fo110111·:1 hle .1,:.

(-1 unior ;\11•rnh1·t· 1".

Frcderitks, for 1-:ioull1-Ea:,t '.l'he L.J,.B., J•::;scquclio).

-.

:Qhaii- .

j.: A.

B. Secl'am (}\Icm­ 'l'hc l!oit�ul'able ).


lJcr fol' J>emcrara -: llu11unra the Attom6y-Gc11- , K.C., H.A ...

(LoJJ1l.)

8cn·e- ule tlic Culunial 0t}"l·y, .\l r. C. ]Jouglas-J one,:, C.}LU-.

u 'l'he Hoitom·al.Jle e:1·a;l,, -'Jr.

HC't:lor I-'J:;'.:nI.

(C'nntnu.

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:the· IJ011,n11·nl1lc tXum,iuate1l :•·trh� llo,1011raldL• .

(Xominutc1l ,Joseplt:-:- LT,.Il.

.

.

Mcml.Jcr).

.

'I'.

'J'.

Srnl'llle Meml.Jcr).

P. IDia,; (X umi11a• 'l'hc Ilouou1·aulc l'nollicial · "C"nollicial .
'l, ... - A. l'.

1;_ .1l.1-1;.

;.ti11 • l\11.KU'l'l•�H 'l'hc 111inutc,; of the mcctlug of the C111111< :,n•.1 •il of the lOU1 .January.

as printt-d 1·in:11]a1ed, were confirmed.

tel Uuolli<.

:ial The IloH0111·a ;:\Icrnllci-).

l,lc 'l'.

l\Iillanl, Culonlnl 'J'J'easurcr.

l,O\'E1tS:i1ENT K01'ICES:�.

"'""f (lr;1�·, .\L\.., l'lt.l>.

(O.rn�1./, :\fajor the llo1to111·a lile "\ V. Bn h (Edin.

), D. Litl of Education.

J.

8.

Dash, Il.S.A., The Ilonourablc Director J)irectol' of .Agl'lcultul'c.
X11(i<:c w:1s _givm1 U1:1t at thC' ::ippro­ priate moment lhe :suspension of the :,taurli111; woultl ho g Bills to >n<ff•,l h€: taken 1.hrongh all their stages arttt,.

; pa�s-:!rl Ilnles ancl 0l'ders the followin to P.11able fo-rlay:- The Honouraule l\Ic1nbcr (�rniot· 'l tlCUO) • U. E. lfrn�si..ngtou for Xol'th·"\''e:;t J,;:;;; c­ 'L'he Jlo1H)tU·al1lc J:.

,-.

Eran 1\'w1;!, lU·k., (8l'11iu1· E;;scqucbo ).


::lleml>e1· for Soutlr-En;;t "'· E. ] r. Colonel tlie J-Io11ournl;lc of l'olit:c. lJ1>'pcdo1·-Ul•1tcr:1l H1·ncll.i111·n, A Em to make provision for raising a� .

J-oan.

of three mill ions one ht111clred�'l.11l1¢ � stetlin\ three t11011sa.nd public 1rnrposes.

'·� ·, .

� -:-;.

for certai'il: ··r.

:oii.� or�-­ �·y.)

.

...,_ 4?


;-�; be raised uncler the sl:all dinance, 1916.-(l'olouinl A Bill to provide five bundrctl that no [urtlun· -.loa.n pout1ti:s 8ccrC/a Public · :::H:1j01· tbc 1Ionou1·a ,ule .J.

U. CL'ai;!.

OTIDETI OF TI-rn DAY.

JUS.O., J)il'cctor of I'u.lilit ·works .

'l'lte IIm1ourable B. ll.

·wood, :.\LA., J>ip.

l<'or.

(Cantah), ForC'sls.

Con-;en:itor of The IIonomablc S, 1T.

Bayley, Colonial Tr:rn,:port :\J":111 :ig­ De- ing Dirce:tor, partment.

\ ThP Honourah!c J_ 1fnlli11.


F. S. I., Cornmissio11e1· :::irin.cl:l_.

- of L:11Hls a.11i:J. , A.J.:.\I.:II.

UU3'1'mIS '1'.\ Ull!'l!'.

The �OLONIAL SECRETA�Y (Mr. ): i-:ii1·, l,cforc reading-of ''A Bill to fb:: in­ C. Douglas-Jones iJJg the thil'd :t tariff to a,nli :!.\pOl'tCcl r,;lwuhl like with your permi.ssiu u to make a few ol.Jscrvations.

The Hou.

l\fr.

Austin, hon.


members will remem- of duties ,on goods i.mportctl from the Colony,'' I lJlOV• (i77 U ustom.s '.l'ariff �Bill.11 J.\Xl:..IBY i!)�!)

Giistoms 1'tiriff Bill.

G78 to co11lllllmity of of in order ion of duty on of Customs been arrived on the new basis considered &m:1d.

I have, value mainly 11pon mixed goods rates of import duty.

different that the Comptroller of :firms, representatiYes ry ar­ me that satisfacto at.

Hon.
Hon.

be glad to know that the bcr, asked that tbe third reading this Bill should be postponed to allow the mercantile confer with the Comptroller with regard to the collect tJ1e c:i.f.
bearing I understailld Customs met ancl he informs r:rngcments have memhers will principle of colle('ting is gc11erally a lettel' from the however, ask in which they Chamber of Commerce of the Bill should that the third reading as it is pointed be frn·tl1er postponed out that there are certain items, such as sea g1'.ass, ancl ot11ers, were leviell wo11ld be to increase in some cases more :ibnorrnal than 100 per cent.
They request that to en­ be postponed the third reading able the Ch:mi\Jer to compile a com­ plete list of the items which would be so affected.

list will be forwarded in dne course for consideration.

upon which, if the duties on c.i.f.

basis, the results hollow wa.re, glass ware just received "\':hicl!

the cost to an extent, with mat­ is It is impossible in dealing anomalies to postpone It wiil adil'.g should lie postp011ed.
that ,it should "be left to to decide whether the third by the c1iauge we all.optell will be any gi·eater than in tl1e old form, wliich existed ters of this sort, when an endeavour made to \fix our Customs tariff, that shonhl not ari::;e. I ccrta.il1 an1 not sure, sir, that the anomalies which will be created l1,1ve tl1ose and I suggest t,his Oouncil 1· .. be necessary Collnril be 111• gl'eat tom duties, being •C'ollec-led ing the :matle1· «leRira"\Jle ing 1rnecrtni grtrd to which representation ll!ade and require spac:e io ear,·y them, ancl therefore fa higher than on any other freight be very difficult to articl<i::; and it w,oulsl meets in February.
detriment because lmcler the new rates, :ne whic11 are very bulky a good deal of shippin� , but it will be del.iy­ 1·ather louger tl1a11 nty.

Those itemR hl re­ ]ms been all(l at tJ1e same time ci-ea1.­ That will the Cus­ arc articles it until the ii:; that cleal with special cases.

I suggest, to pass its thirll i!le E.ill l•e allowed and perhaps it will be possi­ 1·Pading, ble next ye::i.1· to re.
:lu"ce the duty on those bulky articles sir, it is agreed by the Council shonlrl tliircl rcadi11g I ""ould 1ask leave for the Conmil re­ , ert into CommittNi tinn i u alter:1 to a normal rate.

lri to make a Ycrhal the scheclule l•e procceclct1 of the Bill.

tuat the with, The P.RESl:DENT: The 11uc:sUuu h ·whether taken now or postponed.
the thi.nl 1·cadiug should be Mr. AUSTIN: This guestion is a with The actual cost bit far-reach it came to $51.50, is· mort" J)cr bale, which aml it is used to a large exteut of the grass.

The difference is more than because it is have been giv­ Fttile ing as far as I ca11 One iLem mentioueu 1rnderstaud.

by the hon.

Colonial Secretary is se,L grass.

That is used for stuffing mat­ tresses hy tl1e poorer classes.

of the shipping charges the cc,st of the grass itself su bulky.
Pigures that en me show that under the old rate the llutv on a bale of about 112 lbs.

came to' Gl cents.

'l'he cost of 25 bales amo1111ted to $38.50 and together the actual freiglLt and irnmrauce on the shipment so ;that it was a:· matter of $13 in excess of the :value in dtJty means that sea grass will now pay '.t dtLty of $1.4-1 tha.n double what the duty was before.

(Dp my mind it would be fairly to pnt sen. grass on the specific rate, in­ stead (of on the ad valorem rate, at like 12 cents per lb.
With something regard to glass ware the new cluty, I am told, would seriously small lmsi11ec;s known as tho "5, 10, lG and 25 Cents Store."

glass ware amounts to about 70 per cent.

Glai::s bei11g bulky freight are c01-res1>ondingly sir, that that store, ly used l)y the poorer classes, will be hampered and it to a very great extent, will become a question whether it will be al>le to carry on cluring the year with the l10pe of getting relief next year.
I clo not say that it will not be able to carry on, but it is a fact that it is likely to h�illlpe:r: that business high.

I am afra-icl, which if; very large­ The increa�c hampe1· a charges simple 011 •619 C u,stoms Tci1··iff IJ iiZ ii JANUARY 1929 di1.sfoms :f ariff hilt.

680 Oil whether it is not plass�s.

'.!


;o my mind it becomes wheu the duty collected uoes not amount to anything consideral>f y, a1-1d, �as I said, it is a �\1s� �s• � al ,,�""'.µsed largely by the popre1· a question, any article very considerable, good policy to consider that is created duty rather than the actual amount of cl11ty ai,k the Council third reading l)ostponed give a little tion of the various bouml to come up.
If it is possiule to agree more time for considera­ items :which arc to having the in order to by maintaining c:ollec:ted.

the hardship I would that is on the cheaper goods sold lines of articles mentioned will affect chiefly the poorer classes.

It is only in regard to those goods on which the c.i.f.

high-that in the Colony-that difficulty it i::; not Government' s intention .fii� any great hardship on the poorer but rather to relieve them of classes their burden.
That being so I ask the House to accept the motion.

to in­ Mr. WIGHT: I also join in asking will arise.

I am convinced this particular charges are disproportionately and basis w great hardship this Bill be deferred, liim in the view that ·••+ Mr. SEERAM: I shotud like to join with the Hon.

Mr. Austin in his appeal that also to s11pport the amount of duty fix.ell on the value i ll create of goods on the c.i.f.
au extremely on those people who import glass ware and pot, te�Y, which are greatly (Used biy the poorer chsses.

l\ly attention <lrawu to the fact that in many cas,j., the c11arges are double the actual value of the goocli:., trade com,idern getting increased a 1·eduction.
wJ1en the Chamber of Commerce JiaYe gone into th(• matter that uocly will makC' such recommendatio11s which I hope Government bly and inste:ul of our there will be �ml I am afraid that will affect I have no doubt th1t and iw;unmce will accept.· for freight has lJec11 reYenue shal1 Mr. WONG: I would also like to difficuHy be proceeded which have been already the motion that 'the third reacl­ support in� of the nm be c1cferrec1.

As the hon.
As the hon.

CoJonial Secretary J1as pointed out, there is no gl'eat in do­ ing so since the collection of duty on the proposals before the House will �ith.

'l'he only point he has made is that there will be a period of uncer­ tainty until February, precates, but I would point out that it would be much better to be under some uncertainty for a few months than Ito be under a burden for twelve montl1s.
One point I shoulcl like to emJ)hasise is that the incidence of ,duty on the· .�.i-!, :basis on the particular which he de­ to defer the third reading tb,e Council of this Bill.

.A:s the hou.

Colonial Secretary has rightly pointed out, it does not involve any difficulty Govenunent.

in "tlte street" cancelled is gone through, Customs revenue if Government push it imme«]iately many orders are being until the matter and it must a:fl'cct the I know personally that or delayccl with .. .
• J. of I am class, importation fibre is an equa-ny go-9& n when we consideratio with the whole matter.

we ha ,·e representations ·1 The COLONIAL SECRETARY: There arc one or two points which I should like to deal with.

As regards the � main oujection-the of sea" grnss, the .�ost of which :will be doubled -in that connection 11 1will point out'.

that coconut substitute and can ue produced locally.
In other parts of the wol'ld ,coconut fibre is used for stuffing mattresses tho ]1ighest and, therefore, not at all ,sure whether sea grnss should recciYe are dealing ;TJ1en behnlf of the "5 Cents Store" whi�h caters mai11ly for people in glassware, hollow Wfll'C, and so on.

I.

�YOuld 6 anythiug, anything, the cost of liviJ1g the cost of any article 'l'hat to avoid.

\Ve are Yery an,--.

:ious to re­ duce eost to the poor man.


But we have the merchants entirely is whether we should consider the in­ terest of one firm •against Government or wish Government to d that is going to increase in any way or to the pool' man.

is an object Government wants the policy of as a whole and the view� that this .aurangement of the JJulk -0f satisfactory, and the question testimony the is made on �10t do G81 Customs Tariff iwi :11 JANUARY J92!)

01istoms Tariff Bill.


682 goocl.s seut to the btiiicl and not cleared uutil the decisiou is arrived.

at: The ATTORNEY GENERAL (Mr, : 'l'herc ,vill lie a Hector Josephs) umlertaking definite will h:i fully cousitlercll sililc i:ectiJietl thc1·efore .in opeeation than in a state of sus­ PC'lt<lcd (o rdnrnl I ht!

mu1te.

)', that the matte1· aml if pos­ in Peurnary.

It is to l1a Ye the Orclimrnce 1he duly otL those :illPL· ·11ie tnriJf animalio1t.

belt.er I sug­ Mr. WONG: Thal ,\'ill s:1lisfy us.


to the .A:s I saill befo1·e; b;y the bulk of the 1J1el'caii­ the objcctiom; 'l'lrnt al'e bournl to arise, and we If we pass the particulars which which have is the <·ou1·sc cxpl'essed tilc connnunit;y. anomalies have an altel'native.

Rill :now:· between now aml ,l"cl.H·uary wo can amend the schcth�le in certain Ordinance 'will ovei-come been raised.

gcst.
gcst.

If we collc<·t Jale1· ad.ides 11uw .lll<l "·c ,;hall h:11·c which is a very u11:;alisf more 11tu11l•,r fo do, or collect merchant, OJt fm·ther rcp1·e�e11lalirn1 Cham!Jer of Co11u11en· tion ·with the Comptroller we cau deal with any 1111csti.o.11 that has been rai::;ed.

I press, sir, that the Bill be reatl a thinl time now, aJl(l Gove1·mueHt the at"ivisa schedule :1dory thi11g fru!ll thu to.

c:au undc1·t.ttke liility 'which he will u!Jje1.

:t e :rnd rnn:;nll.a­ of amemlillg the at a later date.
oJ Cu:;tnnv, to consider l1y iltc Mr. WIGHT: Curn11ut filnc is JJot quantity in� .f: l. 1lc i1t n11y l:11·gc ol:,lain:L i.ltis hy th:1 t um Le .fostered p:1y.

Colony.

It is 110 duu!Jt an indus• ,,.

and made to Mr. AUSTIN: I haYe no oujectiou tu foe third 1:eadiiig wHl uwlel'1':1ke en1mc11t a rnt•Hdrneu t;,.

uf the Bill.

if Gov­ to <.


:onsider we can do it the it would ue fur trnde, so that The CHAIRMAN : Government ·will gi1e an umlertaki11 enquiry me11tio11e g that we not only d liut into certainly slwll make the Iulle:,t into the article.--; all the others within a reasonable period'.

rrhe <1uil-kcr 1Jette1· the Council <::1H rely upon our doing it as 1·apillly of the " du:;ion I think a go()(l 1�ou l<l lie made even during the Cou l'e1·­ e11ee, ore1·, lJl' Jcci.>1:uary, at a tinal llccislon.
autl a� suoH as the Uo11:fe1·cnc whidt ,l'ill be a!Jout the middle we slwll !Je able to an·ive :1:; 11os:si!Jle after the cou­ r est lmlian Conference.

deal of the il](1uiries e is The :COLO.NIAL_ SECRETARY: h you 1: pe1·rni�sion, \\'i( ,;i1:, i he Hill lie 1·ccu111mil rut· !lit· p11q10,.-,e :; r\lt'IHI I a�k that ttee tetl in Co111mi ot making a rel'11ul ll!Cn t. Q1w,:I ion put, and agreed to.

'l'hc ( ·01111cil rr.


:-;ol rctl itself jnto Com· :that a fuller I ;1111 certain ha:,; not lieen c1uile would show that there Mr. WONG: �foy I be pel'mitted out, sir, that the hon.

Colonial ny other items ,coming to the to wl1id1 :t Ycry to 'point Secretary fail' to made here this the 1·eprese11tntio11s to go into .

He has elecle!l il(•Jw; that of ce1tai11 OH the �pur of the 't"ll1ornb1g ,ettain details were :suggestetl mon1e11t.
.ill \'cstigation an, 111;1 Colo11r in rc-ga1·d case can be malle out mneh stl'ouger th.-in in tl1c ease of ihe n rtic:les me11- .in the letter of ihc l'hambe1 ti;oned · of are Co111me1·ce.

uot made, as the hon.

Culolli tary seems v fin11.

It.

is a rnaltc1· an: that will atfe<.

:t all the pomer clas:;e,; of tliis Colo1,y.

In rcgnnl tn unc:et·· tainl·>· ing 1o 1·ef1111il 1cdccl.
licl ll'<•c wll<'n it is i-niggc�ted miµ:hi' hi' H\C·n11N is a si111[Jle wei·c as:-;ured reconsider a dcfi11 i.te conclusion, then the 1nac­ !ice ;will be resor!e_d to of having )to make out, OH behalf of a11rl thP undeRiral,ilily the matter and nnive at will that Govenuncnt _pal'ticular idcre<l, I dnlies 1.liat that the matter solution.

al 8ene• ol' l1:1v­ 111;1y lie col- ·n 110w a]l(l Fel1r11a1·y, 'Those 1·eprescntati'ons ll1ink 1l1c1·c If the rne1·ch:mt.-; rnittcr.
The COLONIAL SECRETARYi: Tlem ::u ,-honl<l per 200 lus., British l\'¾'nriil' 50 �ents,.

General Tariff $1.

; r(b) Rosin, have been (a)'\:Pi�&h, P1·eferentia GS� Bil�s f!

J:ANUARY 1929 -Public Loan..G84: ,, .� Tal'ill', Gc•cral Ta l'i 11' �l.

l'iteh was by rnistnkc n11tl if it 1·cmni11s $hJJl be rais:d under din:mcc, that no further loan the Pulblic ,l.'1·cfercntinl 191G-(Go7011ia/ A Bill to lYl'OVide Secretary.)
Loan u,·­ pc,· �00 lbs., Tiritish ;jl) c·eHts, omil1'1•1l in the omnilrns cl::1ui-c prnl1iltiliYr.

mc11 t. the dnty wm I.Jc 1 ucg to moYc 1ltc nmcrnl­ The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I of the Stancl ing hr suspension n11cl Onlers in order to cualJlP­ t<i b,c taken through all their mm·c 1 Jtulc:, tl1<':.

:c llills stages to-clay.

Quc�ti0J1 Tl1c Conndl resmnetl.

put, ancl ngrectl to.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I 11toH' that the Bill !Jc now rc,1ll the tlli1·tl Mr. MILLARD seconded.

Qt:<:;:(ion pnt, and agreed to.


1 ime.

Question a thiJ'tl lta�reetl to.

'"!

'hat .time ancl p;u;sccl this Bill be 110w 1·e:1<l " 1mt aml Brn i·e,Hl tile t11i1·c1 ·time ;,1;icl pas:ml.

io 1n·ot1ncc £3,10;1,rioo.

'l'he fut· twl1 ic·h the loan is il>eing n1·c set ont in il1e schedule.

will 11otice, to 1·efuncl PUBLIC PURPOS,ES LOAN BILL.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Hon.

h,He a copy of the Loan Bill 1fl13, ◊l'clinm1ce.

h,l\'C -rnade to the Coloi1y or sloc:k, 1itot.k 11011. rncmlJc1·s fol.'
£2,0G7,0UO the Gorei·nor to is­ or both, 1111tler )llC'lllh<!ni wL itl1 n11ll10J'iscs sue 1khr11tn1·e:; the, J1i,-wJ'ilJctl.

Sli llit.

:ieut Jrn t·po>'cs 1·,list•tl ,1';"1rt 1, JH'oYidcs the Crown Agent:; atlrn11!

:cs which the,i· to impro\'Cmcnt 1 a iJC'd.

Jlll>'<·d i u l'n :11·r.

1111,11<• and ,d1r11 1J'11111c•y r11l rr111c·c,� \\'ill Crown Agr111s w•,)rks ::ti!(!

will l,c r,li:;ctl I 1111,n• 1 i Ill('.

s<'t 011!'.

rcrtn.in .v i,-; r..·1111ii-c<l.


'il' 1.hc time comes to spcll(l this that i11 1hc R<·hcdnle, he ol1t:1i11('cl frnm ihc io meet the co:-;t of ihe Joau f:;Chcmes which al'e cle- J.n l'a tt II, whil'h iL is Hot 1>ro­ objects fol' which lt is p1:opo,;ccl, at a later <late a to co,·er a1ha11ce,-;.

scco:1ci lhe Eill lie n•at'l a i�e at 1 he present as cletaile<l f11rlhc1· in respect momeut, llt0�c 1.hn.L LEGAL PllACTlTIONERS BILL.
The .ATTORNEY GENERAL: I ask, sfr, tlrn t the mot ion in my rnnne (i.e.)

"�hat the Con1wil go into Committee on a Hill lo make J>L'OYisio11 cwith 1·cs­ pcrt 1o the 1liscipli11e tioJ1e1·s day.

., sfarnl oyet· until lalel' of Legal Proc·ti­ in tlic Qtt<'stion pnL, and agreed to.

GOl\lPASSIONATl!J ALLOWANCK Major GRAY (Director of EdL1ca­ tion) : I lteg-to more:- ,_vi.

'!·hat, !1 1·er01·e-Jice to t!

!C Governor's os .the payment of a compassi .a.t lho rate of $60 per annum lo Message No.
22 of 1U2S, tl1b Council an· onate thc,ris aJ101•:ance Mrn.

Bridgel to nt teacher, Gibson, an •uncerlified a; from 1st October, 192S.

assist­ 'l'!i,?

l'ilT11111:,;(n,H·r,: c:i:.

:c arc '1111.r in till' 11e�s.1 .�c.

>'<'I 1111!

1 n{' il1i:,; (:o,·L'!

'IIOC''K Mr. WONG: T :,;c<·o11◄l (211<•s!

icn plt!, a 11d ng1·ccll 1he rnolicrn.

to.

M1·.

CRANE: I Rcr011<l tl1c motion.


:2, l':nl 1 il<'lll lo ftsk \l'l1ctl1c1· (i.t•., J i11d,1,Lt•� <•slimal1·tl I tlC'�in:· ,,r tl,P >'1·hN1!ilc �,,1 "' .i.,·, .e1 ,u,ouo ll'hil'l1 h:1s hc,·11 or Ri11ki11g J>lll'JWSCS.

to be 1110 C'O»t 'l\f1111il'ipal ,Vater 1il'C \l'Clls f1ll' :Alu11idpal "n :11t1111rnt INTROUUCTION OF BILLS.

The PRESIDENT: take 1het:,e .I ihi11k wr J1:11l ilems in Uornmitlec.
J;c•tlrl' ::.\fo1ion rnaclc, ancl question ng1·eec].. to, tl1at ihc followi11g re.ad {he first time:- put :111(1 Bills lJe A Bill to make p1rovision n. for ra1s111g loan 'O'f' three millions three 'thousai1d J:ng for certa.ip, ooe hunclrecl ancl five hundrecl 110unds public purposes.

ster­ Mr. CRANE: As Your Excellency ,Vhnt I would like to say II gencrnlly pk:tsC's.

ahont I'ru-t it••m;; arc to be raised ns requil'e<l paf;,;i11g or the Bill should not be re­ gal'Cletl as fornl.
I couceiYe is that as thcs� that this the 685 A1,bUc Loci11 mu .

11 JAXU..1..RY 192() -Comm-ittce.

686 House may be able to make suggestions there·.

on any of the items indicated is to be When the actual expenditure will be met, I take it, an rpportunity given to tJie House to cousi<let the par­ tirnlar measure.

The PRESIDENT: the hon.

member's lnittee.

It will come in more properly there.

request I will deal ,with when in Com­ Quef:tion "That the Bill be read the second time" put, and agreed to.
Bill read the second time.

itself The Council resolved into Com­ mittee to consi<ler clause, the iBill clause by of £!.lS0,000 may be p. trifle that point I say is now being investi­ gated.

_re·duced, but Mr. CRANE: Do I understand that aucl £50, from to be recovered the difference 000 is expected the Contractors?

£180,000 between The CHAIRMAN: Government has a rid of paHt commitments pious hope to that effect (Laughter.)

Before we .go on to tliei:;e other items I will remind hon.
members that practi­ cally the whole of Part I of the schedule is for getting and for establishing :md the whole of Part II is for work to whkh we are at all cost absolutely committed necessary the deYelopment those few remarks the other items.

-works which are urgently in view of the necessity of the country.

we will go on now to for With our balance sheet; Scl1ednle-Part I.

Item I-City of Georgetown-Sewerage, and External House Connections, £980,000.
Main Drainage Item 2.-11:Iunici pail Water Supply, Mr. CRANE: Ma.y I ask whether £170,000.

this is the sum finally cost of these schemes?

estimated as the Mr. CRANE: I hope I am not as­ relied source_ exactly.

to do in this mat­ is not certain is that £980,000 sir, that you know too little The COLONIAL SECRETARY: T4e of supply.

of drinking of the schemel:l is go­ as hon.


mem­ the water supply of and we can­ reply to that question is the sum which is required to com­ plete tJ1e schemes and I'epay such ad­ Yances as haYe been made by the Crown Agent.!:!

to them.

Hon.

with respect that.

it is diffi­ member,; will appreciate cult to estimate We know what each section ing to cost.
For instance, bers are aware, we have told them is not likely tlrnt the l\fain Drainage and the Ex­ to cost more than £40-0,000 sometl1ing tern::1.l Honse Connections 1he smne ncighbourhootl, therefore that there is a differ­ will be obsen-ccl ence pf £180,000.

are now be­ Attempts ing made to endeavour how that difference l1ayo found that ecl for.

As hon.

membe1·s ·when tJ1c contrnct C011tractors took in which the allocation appeared, sion of those books it is impossible estimate closely gone to.
It is possible suming, about what we propose ter.

l'ut shortly, Georgetown not I'ely on the present I am not now speaking water, which ii,; stored in vats and other sources, but to Lama ha water for fighting fire and for domestic use.

'l'he Council :find that this supply cannot be are installing might be difficult efficiently J)ly is not provided.
60 Jcstimatcll with a wells to provide Georgetown pure water supply scheme-that is the entire a bandomnent Scheme-but undertaki11g City with the existing the Sewerage fore decided, ernment, as a sort of experiment they would behave under c0nditions existing ment for �hat purpose.

of the Lamahn it was considered that that would be too large for the t for can be accom�t­ ::n-e aware, the was cancelleo.
with the approval that five wells should be sunk to has that this sum away aJI tl1eir books of their fm1ds on, and 110w that we it by Govern­ On the termi- and until we can get posses­ that .it woul<l take a,bout on the site given ,Scheme.

It was there­ .if an additional where this balance A late Engineer to ascertain the Sewerage is made np.

·we commitmen to notice how source of sup­ .Scheme £50,000 in it of Gov­ to operate that scheme 687 P1tblic Loan Bil/, 11 JANlURY 1929 -Committee.
688 the contractors advallced, it us to do, desires provision of these wells.

We of Public ·works, and of Beeby 'l'hompsou, embark on this scheme It is very impol'tant that tlie money we should nation of the contract, having had certain mo11ics ti-anspirecl.

J,ave spent on these wells is not existant.

if we al'e to protect the City, as I know eYeryoJ1e 1hat we shoulcl ·.
fo1· the siuki11g h�n-e the auvice of Mr. Pudsey, late Director Mr. May, one of t)lc Consultants of Messrs. on the type of wells, ancl all that remains now is to find the money to embark on the um1ertakil1-g, ijQ it is very important that this sum should include for those five wells.

I happen to know has that the hon.

Colonial clill'crent the Lamaha !water supply.

I think his view is to preserve present engineering supply .is not under the control of the Town Council but the Lamaha Com­ mittee.
\Ve really cannot :rely ou of supply and these that sotu·cc five .

we1ls are in the nature of :ni experiment.

We will put them on the Shelter Belt and throw the water into the not raise the loan and leave tl1at mat­ ter unattended.

the wells sunk by Government Steamer Stelling I do ;not know where we woulu haYe been during the drought.

canal, which is a tremendous task, and that source of Had it not beeu for at the views about increasing and at D'Urban Pa·1·k canal.
We should the water in tlle Secretary The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I clo There ai-e just to· in /order that Ii ke to refe1· to enter of the scheme for the supply of pul'o not think it will be necessary into any discussion or details rroposed water for Geo1·getow11.

one or two little matters which I Rl1ould there n,ay be no misapprehension what has !been _said by the hon.

mem­ ber.

He refcn·ctl to my b:ning views as from the 111 in<TC'M,i11� y. I have no views Larnnha Conservanc on that qucstiou.
I simply asked l\'Ir.

i.\Iay for an estimate of the cost of water from the Lamaha and pipi11g I reating it.

Ur.

:M:ay very kindly went into the matter and }t )Yas fo11nrl "the water snp1-i1�, ·from tl1at al­ is using a Scheme itself that the Sewerage to ·sec disappear, idea whi�h ancl the cost of pipes alone woulcl probably be more than the .sinking of wells, so that the matter has disappeared together.

There is another T jwould ,.like that .is the question Scheme is usil1g a great deal of water.

'.l.
'.l.

'hat has given rise to the idea ithat we :-;hould have a large supply of water to operate the scheme.

The idea that the Sewerage great deal more water than was used before is not correct.

It is estimated that tJ1e per head consumption in Georgetown GO antl 100 gallons a very large quantity, l'epresentecl eers that if we coulcl reduce that amount.

per clay the sup­ ply would be adequate.


Based on the )ler head consumption the Sewerage Scheme is using a 'small quantity water; but that: does not do away with 11,e necessity sufficient and it has been by the Consulting of water between supply to operate that we should have a is somewhere by 30 gallons per day, which.

is the scheme.

Engin• of with tlJP.

general quest.ion, the provideu provision but at a later J1ow m011ey can be for that 1mrpose, does not include of \wells, fmid.
I will not go fur­ it can be Dealil1g tlle £170,000 for the sinking stage I hope to show this Council and also the .Town Council how money can be provided for the three sc]iemes, which I am sure the hon.

member has very mucl1 at heart.

In other worcls I J1ope to indicate p1·ovided Town Council can see their way through their rates to meet interest and sinking tlter into the matter be�ause <lealt with more adequately Qnter elate.
To refer to the adequacy of the ,vater ,s11pply the C011sulti11g port )aid great /emphasis graceful all!l I am not at all.

sure that a1lcquatc iitep!

'i that waste.

At the request Town Council not long ago I askerl tl,e Inspector-General \d1ether of tnpf;.
vVe ha<l recently \.lroug-ht tl1an usual, a11d I think peo­ ple l1ave 'been yery nervous :arc taken even now to prevent in their re• 'Upon the dis• we could 11ot stop the running waste of water in Georgetown, in Gcorgct.owu, a l011ge1· of rolice to se<:' Engineers in Georgl)· of the at a 689 P1iblic Loa11 B-ill 11 J.AN:Q:AR� 192!)

-Committee.

G90 The.

CHAIRIV!AN:Pci·haps that -might be considered ln�pca101· Ge11cn1l of the matter?

again.
again.

Will the tell us what he thinks town about · the s11Pply of \yater.

the water-: wa.� 'turned off dur­ I believe hours of thc�tlaJ iJ( 01;-ier ing certain it, lmt there still 1·emairn, to conse,·rn a tremendous waste of water in George­ tow11.

I lrnow tha.t \the Town Council are doiug what tlic�-um in this mat­ ter, lmt the 'l'own Council :should ap­ peal to t).te people in .Georgetow n to endeavour waste to aYoid mwecessary of watel'.

Jlo-w it mu be tlonc I am not sure.


:l'lte tnps which ,are now JJe­ iHg put in the cu111111nnnl Hinks nexioH •with ihc Sewe1·age taps only to provide a c�rtnin of ,rn tcr, lmt I 11rnlei-sla taps :u·c tied back to to nm.

I do not know 11011· we are going to meet nu,cs of that sort, lrnt it is a mailer ·wlLit:h the 'l'own Coundl urc con:sidcriug, I hope tltey will not cease to consider cannot it and sec whcl11er something be clone to obYia tc the appalli11g waste of water.
1 am quite sui·e and allow the ,�ali:r 1Hl tbal ibe Scheme are amouul i11 con• Colonel .. !BRADBURN ( Inspector to private will Constables houses.

1Ve :Qeneral of Police): uot be ad.mittcll have, howcYer, in the use of >'OILS to be more c.ueful ,rntcr, ancl the Police Force itself lrns also been warned �o consen-c its sup­ ply.

warned a. m1mber of pet·· The CHAIRMAN: I am s11rc that which will be girnu to be of use ou the sub­ the pulJlitit.r tliis dcua le w i IL dcc·t.
Colo11ial serious Secreta.1-y one, I (Jtiitc ag1·ee with the hon.

tlia f, the matter is a Item 4.-Coaslal (1\rells), £1G7,000.

1�nre ·waf,cr Supply Mr. CRANE: i.

]I(> ,-cJ1eme?

Is this to complete of the Polite uur 011·n ,:,a11ita1·y aml l{o,Hl O1·ct·secrs, Town Mr. CRANE: In n.ddition tu the as­ i:;i:stance Inspectors ihcm­ Cons ta hies nml cYcn the ol'!ic·ers to this mat- sclYes, arn gidng ·attcn1.ion 1er, a1Hl we 11ayc al,;o printctl circular s warning llCOplc arnl t]1rc:1 tening house­ servant.
'> ]1old.et"s :"·ho allow ,thcil' to wa,;fo water.

1Yc rne tloii1g our ut­ most.

Major CRAIG (Director of Public to complete 11g lo the progrrumnc is the amount that was the scheme :.1.c­ of Works): 'l'ltis estimated <·ordi ·l.iy the Council.

approved Major CRAIG: Sixty wells.

IVlr.

CRANE: Sixty wells?

Mr. WIGHT: I 111ay atltl to lhat that we arc c,idl':1Yuuri11g laps to f;;·•t to meet the tlil' 1hat the Coloninl '1'1·:1 ment is responsil.ilc waste 100. nsporL Depart­ lirnlly.
I m11sL :ul111it ui' for a grr:1 t tle:t l Mr. DIAS: I want to 11!cntio11 in with tho waste of irater that c-mmcxion it is a matter that eugaged !he atten­ tion of t1te Town Com1cil many years bnc:k wl1en I happened to be Mayor, a 1icl I think it was.

011 my suggestion that tl1e Council employi11g were employed an<l then the Council tlccicled 11::tte tlieir services, ���� '!.

'hey for three or four years went to the expense of tap inspectors.
which was a great special to termi- The COLONIAL SECRETARY: :-io to lalel' lhc "·ells esli111:1 deal of di,;cussio,1 Coul't auo-11t the pru­ a 11cl cost of the wells.

Hon.

rnust 1·cnlise like to :,;ay tLtat the £1G7, 1.e<l actually i11 the progeammc, l,uL, illcrc has a1·c :11r:1L'c, in lhc as tu an1id any furlhct· 1111eslio11s oc1 l slto11lcl ·llOO is t·he :1111.,u11L <ll'ill :1s hon rnc•11ll1e1·s Ileen a /.rood olcl Comili11l•cl grn11u1te mcmhe1·s )H'or.
;ess ferc11t to be sunk to c·ertain vo 11ortlt-wcst the cost of· \Ve kuow 110w npproximately drilling a well in any part of the Col- 011y, but, sir, we are not out of the wood yet.

It hns been discovered, as hon.

:uieml>ers .is one of experiment..

In dif­ parts of the Colony wells lune kuo}V, that a good many of they decrease that the "·hole depths and as we in depth.

·G91 P1iblic Loan Bill 11 J .l�U.lRY 1929 -CO'llbmittce.
G!J2 conotled hav� show.n to filtd out definitely that owiug of the wu,ter the straL.1.­ si�ns gf c�ms-•.· these :_,.\'ells wg to now, and the ,l,;ngi..l.lee1 : on the that matter and scheme is inrnstigating endeavouring ·wlrnt is the cause.

It is probable to the acidity ers are becoming are becomiug flow.

'.l'lie straiuers kinds of metal and it may l.Je necessary to replace ther expense aliove the cost of boring the wells.

There is also one other point whic:h is being i,1Yestigatecl ...

Engineer.
Engineer.

The Engineer 1;0 that fur­ those strainers, OYe1· and may be i11volYc<.l and the wells up aml <:easing to are made of two now Ly the Hesiuent in sinking 1;iltetl Finally, �ay :t4rough our p1·ogra111me.

e.iperim_ents are going OU now arnl I do rrot propose that,.

we should coilllllit ourselves p1·ogramme undertakin until these experi­ if that were possible, ments have shown us what changes in the method not be neceflsary.
to the present g too many new wells, even or const1·uction may or may by Item 5.-PUl'chase ant Ilailway Pe111iane11t of part of Demer­ Pe1·petu.al ,Stock and £217,00-0.

Annuities, Mr. CRANE: I would like to know of this sum represents what proportion £217,000 get some indication likely so as to of the entire liability of when we are t0 get rid of this burden.

'l'he thinks gravels, that tlte cost of drilli11g the gravels from water is obtained.
wells is examining which potal.Jle making of these tests cost a certain mnom1t of money.

The E11giueer it may be best in future to sin1{ all the and he as possible, wells as far down to rt estimates depth than was originally Jo\vel' pro­ posed would be no more expensirn than I me11tion testing that to show that we are ernn now only experimenting with thege wells and that tho cost may But I be greater for going .aga,in the necessity programme.

on with this well-boring Hon.


members I think are peri'ettly vince<l depend­ ity in the districts .eni on tl1is pure water s.upply, and ancl is the cost to experiment whatever 1ind out 4he :best type of well and actual -depth ::rnd so on will l)e money well spent.

I mention these points because later on when we ask fvr more money it should not be n1.id that we said the :final cost would be £157.000.

co,1- that the health of the conmnm­ than was estimated.
is entirely ernphnsi�e Treasur­ Mr. MILLARD :(Colonial oer) : The Crown Agents originally estimated £580,000.

the figure £217,000 not accepted gave the figure £217,000 wern ,-till outstmuling, for a 1,mall mnrgin to existing ances.

that the cost would be They subsequently j:l.S the offer was extent.

Tuey as their offers to a greate1· accept­ am1 it 1n·0Yiclecl indicated The CHAIRMAN: Does that mean that £:3GO,000 is still out1;tarn1i11g?

Mr. MILLARD: Yes, sir.


The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I and of the an­ annuities loan of fifty The 11ol<lers may not want money 11Ow but to accept the offer.

If members are perfectly aware think ·11on.

that it is the desire of Government to get rid of these perpetual p1Jt them on a terminable years.

It is proposed to leave the cffer open.

:111ities mny later dcsil'e that is so we will be able to obtain money from G01·ermnent on an advance ·which :will be included raised at a later date.
I think it would be an advisable the Crown Agents to keep the offer open so of any of these an­ that if the holde�s nuities them on the same terms as we have al­ rendy done: wish to sell we shall pnrcl1n.1,e course to instruct in any loan to be The CHAIRMAN:The Colonial has quite rightly taken a convinced view of this question.
-Sec1·etary most pessimistic I am afraid I have got to agree with because I am him to a great extent, is a that water ,certainly very dangerous more money to complete we requirn of 'GO wells "'e will have to programme i-:.how that we are able to pay the loan.

That is on the necessary ,charges the firs.t thing.

Tl1e seco11d that we have not got more than half thing to play with.

If thing is this Mr. WONG: The £3G3,000 left rtfl there is no prov1s10n Part II of the schedule.
will be for it in 6V3 Ptibl'io Loan llill 11 JANUARY 1929 -Go11imittee.

691 Mr. iMILLARD: Agents state tliat they do not expect accept­ ances to exceed £217,000.

1'l'he Crown Mr. CANNON: "What is the rate at are being pur­ which these annuities ed?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: but it is not at the moment.

Perhaps the \Ve haw the infol'mation available hon.

member will be sa tisfiecl it ;to him •at some later elate.

if we give that, a.ccounts After compiling sheet was-11ot comprehensive.
The funds of Yarious public activitie� di.cl and the assets in­ not appear therein cluded certain atlvance c,ther in whole or part, would never be a list of recovered.

the former and calculating of the latter, the amom1t of the true unfunded apart from Ways and Means bonowing to be app1·oximately original t•J the extent of requesting :;chedulc stead of £100,000.

I was able to as-certa-in item !may stand at £15G,000 has now been modified the estent $750,000.
:The proposal deficit, that this in­ Mr. CANNON: Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN: The interest we are paying on the loan will 1.,e very much the same as what we are payiJ1g on the go on per­ annuities, pet1ia 50 years.

but the annuities U:v while the loan terminates in Hem 6.-i\Iiscellaneous Public ·works.

\Funding operation), £15G,000.

de.• shown reveuual the rectification that the 1·esulfr1g the unfunded $750,000 but as the muner­ having for their ob­ of the Colony's.
out, it is ex­ deficit in the region of the Until the Colony has it will still be necas­ to finance clay to day re­ At present fl.cit excectls om; trnnsactions jective balance sheet are carried pectc1l will be somewhere sum in question.

smplm, balances, sary to liorrow qniremcnts.

and the bala.nce ·be possible cial statements.

these are of particular ·what is requ.iretl is that the Treasurer should lJe in a position any timr.

a sfa!.ement.
a sfa!.ement.

cial position sheet amended, to produce simpler :finan­ At the present time showing the finan­ of the Colony.

to protlucc it will at importance.

Mr. CRANE: I do 11ot underntand "When the loan is 1·aisecl this item.

of alJout $850,000, Mr. MILLARD: In the first scheclule works of a during of revenual undertaken that the accumulating character of the last ten years were in­ sent ho�e items of public pernument the pe1·iocl cluded to 'the extent.
lit was contended deficit of recent years was in part in conseq11ence of the ex­ oceasi.onecl llaustion by ap­ surpluses propriations to meet those works, ap, propl'iations be resorted, assumccl to if a comprehensiYe prese11t aml prospecti.-e tion had been iwailable ',['he execution that case haYc prcs-umalily availability basis of this contenti ed that the cost of those works might now be fnnclcd.

of those wOl'kS would in awaited the of Loan Funds.
On the that it may reasonably would not lucYe been of the statement posi­ financial on, it was request­ a,t the time.

In reply to this proposal _the Secre­ tary of State suggcstecl the inclusion in the Loan .5cJ1edulc of £100,000 purpoi::e. ed the !inm1cial points of view.

The Colony's for this I had examin­ from other In the interval position balance this­ The tramaGtion lJy the is not the The CHAIRMAN:.
I pl'oposc to ask of State permission to lay in which this the Secretary 011 the tnble my despatch matter is clearly explained Treasurer.

usual one; it is a case of clesperati011.

There is no other way of getting mouey except by a loan, 'and if we do.

uot get a loan our accounts ed allCl we have to go on paying interest on advances the sam<>.

If the Secretary approves recognis<> by the r;olonial urgent appeal before I left England; that the new Constitution eu as clean a C'ially.
Trea�urer r.<l to inclrnle from the Crown Agents aU of State· of it I want member1::.

to that: it is a !

!

'reat Tltat conr,ession ]ms referred, £100,000 sho1ilcl be •gfr­ :finan­ start as possible Office.

~ T made a ven­ conces�ion of being allow­ in our loan, was to which the· are confus­ j6!J5 Pnblic Lonn Bill 11 J .\"UATIY 192!)

-Go·1mnittcc .

6D6- the utmost <me coulll get at the time.

I hope w_e have put the case so clearly now that we shall get this £156,000.
own idea was that the Home Govern· ment shoulcl ::t.-: a present, ed to do so.

give us a couple millions uut they were not prepar­ My 1wa:ctice tract where and when possible.

these out to .

con­ of 1rntting Part I.

Item 13.

Hospitals and Dis­ pensaries, £20,000.

,Yith regard to 1�art II I should also like tG make some remarks.

'rhe hon.

Member for West Demerara asked tl.J.at the Council should lJe consulted when •these items are ripe for expenditure.
Mr. CRANE: Ma.y I .ask for some with respect information to this scheme"?

first we propose, The CHAIRMAN: So far as we at preHent at the G·eneral .Hospital to establish can fol'Csee of all, to put in a proper out-patients llloc:k town a11<l thereafter saries in out-stations.

that we .

may be able to aull tto these dispensaries penditure.

can tacl;le 'l'hat is all we foresee at 1n·ese11t.

out of e::s:ti-aordinary in George­ dispen­ It is possible ex­ we.

Item 17.

Redeniption Colony Bonds, £537,000.


of 6 pE:r cent .. can get a portion Mr. WIGHT: Nost of tllcse 'bonds I am asking whether are hel<l locally.

GoYernment amount earmarked local people Jwho have already ilwest­ cd.

It is a suggestion sideration.

opportunity worthy of con­ It will give local people of reinvesting for ·subscription of this by the money.
a::i will be falls clown I of J>ublic but in the mean­ afterwards buildings that estimate bridges that aml which through the fi.11an­ Works has got out and an estimate to clo except in one or cases, for example, the re­ of bridges.

When the That we propose two trifling comlitioning Pirector an aL�olute programme Gf cost of recomlitioning ·will want reconditioning, haYe l1een nei;lected c:ial i:;tringency, put before the Council; time I wish lion.
members to understand tiliat if 011e of the bridges am not going to sununon the Council of that to approve of reconstruction but will carry on and get structure your <"OJ!firmation .

In the I have s:une way with public buildings.

bren grefl.tty struck by the fact that Covcrmne11t are the most dis­ mal places I have seen and the most for, and that is why we arc iil-Caf"ed 1·aisil1g this money to bring them up td (late.

As regards.
As regards.

·propose to l_ay on the table plans and estimates and sc:ltools are a long way off at present started.

As regards the Agricultural ;Bank we are not ready with our full 'plans for that.

l\Ir.

Gall is now makll1g enqmries and will probably lrnYe to Yisit a neighbourh1g Colouy in orcl�r to get final <letnils be­ fore we start tlrnt Bank, but we hope to start that Bank at the earliest pos­ sible moment.
I may add that none of iltese until there works will be started are proper plans and carefully drawn for each-; ancl up estimates ·with regard to the plea made by the Hon.

lfr.

Austin ,,;e for .such things as prisons aml ·so on, but some of them will follow the the other points we approved of being Mr. MILLARD: The :first issue of be Part I of the schedule; It is not auticipa loan issue will be taken three years.
In the mean· of Colony Bonds, is that when it comes to the· of issue of the loa,n a portion for local.

ted the loan will the further issue will cover Part II.

Item 17 will be met by borrowing from the Crown Agents pending the further issue of the loan.

'£he hon.

member suggesting further that loan should be earmarked suhscription.
that a further for probably time the redemption pur­ though not for any considerable will probably be· tion of this· £537,000, by means of borrowing effected from the Crown Agents in anticipation of the next loan issue.

It :would be very difficult to assess any portion of the loan tu be raised in the United King­ Is it pos­ dom for local-�c;ubscription.

sible to say to what exte11t local invest­ ment can be asimre(l included tion of redemption carry an Op· exercisable in the Schedule '!
The Colony Bonds te�1 years 'G07 Bms U JANUARY 1()2() Lcgcil Prcictitio11ers.

G98 lttfter issue on g1vrng :twelve months notice to hcil.clers.

Clauses ag1·eed to.

'l'he Couuc i l 1·csumccl.

Mr. WIGHT: I am very grateful to 'l'reasurer the Colonial tion, but the matter can be easily if I tell him that people here would be able to SIU'bscribe i;.

concerned.

as the new loan so far for the explana­ settled will be The CHAIRMAN: Everything of the hon.

clone to meet the request member.


Mr. CRANE: If it is possible of1 the hon.

member it the suggestion Bill will haye fto l>e under a separate and other provision to meet .made.

Mr. WIGHT: I have no intention that the money should be invested in England.

here but The Councilresumed.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I moYe that the Bill be now read a thirtl time .

The ,COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that tl1e Sill be read a third time··.· an<l passeu.

, .

--�� .

r,.

Mr. MILLARD seconded.


4 a third t-ime :uul pa;;sell" agreed to.

''uestion � ''That �-� this, Bill be now rf ,, •·,:.• put, and .. · Bill /l'<!

::td the thinl 'time and passed.

COl\!PASSlOKATE ALLOWANC�.

Pr'ofessor of Agri­ DASH (Director Thei-e is a motion on the culture): agenda in my name:- That, with reference No.
23 of 1928, this Cou·ncil the payment to the GoverJlcr·s au­ of a compassionate Messa.ge thorises allowance Numka.k, ae-ner at the Botanic rrom 1st April, 1928. at tile rate of $96 pe<r annum to as a gar­ until TeconUy ,employed Gardens, with effect Mr. MfLLARD seconded.

Question: ''That this Bill be now reau .i.u1c and pa,.:,.

:cll" put, a111l a thfrd t ngrecll to.

Bill read the third time and passed.


Since g1n11g notice of the motion it that the whole question should be carefully in­ has been cleciclecl of these pensions ves.tigatecl them.

It affects in addition 1nents lcaYe to withdraw a mm1ber of Depart- to my own and I beg the motion.

with a Yiew to 1·egularising PUBLIC LOAN ORDINANCE.

Question put, and agreed to.

with i-espect e of Legal I'ra!!titioners."

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I that no Bill to pl'ovide move that "A furth,er loans shall be .
:raised under the 191G" be read Public Loan Ordinance, the second time.

This Bill is a, corol­ lary to the Bill just passed and it re­ the power to moves from this Council raise any further money under 1916.

Public Loan Ordinance, the Mr. MILLARD :seconded .

put, and agreed to.

Question Bill read the second time.

into Com­ The Council mittee a11cl consi!lerecl by clause.

resolved itself the Bill cla.use LEGAL PRAC,TITIONERS.
I move on to The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: go ;into Committee "That 'the Council a Bill to make provision the disciplin Notice has been given, sir, of various to the Bill.

Those amend­ amendments consid­ ments have b.een very carefully ereu and agreement at on certain be -put forward to take the place of sir, that the result them.

I expect, meet the wishes of everyone.

bers have been given copies ments which I propose gret thnt I conld not cUstribute �arlier pilation.

has been ar,riYecl which will Hon.


mem­ of the amend­ them careful �om­ other amendments but they required to make.

I re­ will 6!l!J Lcgcil PrcirHU011crs' BUI.

11 JANUARY 19£9 -Committee.

700 put, and agreed to.

Mr. CRANE: I seconjil the motion.

Que!

".1'ion The Co1111cil mittee to cousider dause.

the Bill cl;ni.sc rcsolYcll itself into Com­ lJy '· · • (:Ia use 1.

Short title.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: We ell 'that in clause 1 the word "Ilegu­ a,,� � , · httiou" for "Di:s- should be sulJstitutcu.
_.cipline."

Amendment agreed to.

Cla nsc 2: Interpretation, com;itlcreLl.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: is '!

'his thnt lune 1Jecn Yery ·011e of tlie ma.ttcrs carefully aiacnc.l the defiuiti Cour-t iR to be constituted.

ing to be dc,1lt with in another clause later on.

The lH'Oposal is to on as to how the That is go­ Q1iestion "'!

'hat clause 2 as printed put, all(!

agrcCL1 stnrnl pnrt of the Bill'' �o.

considetet1 in the first instance shall ('Onsists sion 1·0commends definite of more than fiYe.
The profes­ that there shoulrl number.

I.Jc a Tl1e that that the lllll i;;Jrn.11 It is intended The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: has 1Jeeu very carefully of time be an experienced ca.n and later additions of five members, two ex '.!.

'here will iu work­ lJOiut aml it is proposed stanu n.s drafted.

the Uommittee be composed o,P'·icio aml three other,;.

v1·oc·css ing Committee be rnadc to bring the full number up to seYen.
'.l'ltere will be no danger or risk to ni1.ruody crcn by there being a quornm As a matter of a Committee of fact, in some other pla.ces the1:e is a. qnonnn of three and tltl'ee members the Commit­ Jw uitnally of three each tee ,;its in two divisions a.ncJ.

their reports other.

I regre;t tliat the arnern]ment cannot be accepterl.

'not he les:-: than five when the Orcli­ na11ec comes into force.

sit.

Roinetime,; �hall The Committee arc accepted of th1·ce.
lJy the is th,it of whieh of c,·cry Cl:111se is that in sub­ that it is the de­ ]Jc ,lclcted.

the arnendmeut.

of Connnittec:.

,J: Constitution ilt the I.Jest interest should If those words lie 1lcletcLL Mr. CRANE: 'l'he ameudmr.11t shonltl of pensons Mr. FREDERICKS: I mn sorn to say he· can­ hear the Attorney-General llOt :l('(:ept '\Vlly there he a sort of sliding s1.

:alc·t three per�ons are compete11t and sntli­ c-ient of the the functions to 1liseh:11·ge Comm ii tee let it lJc so fixed.
It is a_ whose for })Pl'�ns matiet· sel'ious Yr1·.v is being examined as it is for lil·en)1ood :1.Jl(f T a per:<011 011 trial for an offence, 1hink 1l1Prc of the 11111nbct· iu !e Ote Conunitt grslrcl J1a,·, of ll1is 1iature <·i,-ion :1s to the composition mittee.

I see 110 ,J"enson l,r tliis s.licling to 11se mo1·e rc:u;on .

'\H.01·11e�·-Gp11er:11 11ot be h. definite why tlicre he1· of people to c11qnire into any mis­ rl<>r<l before the Courts.

i:s a yer-y in noccn l Olle.


"\-Vl1en it n Hill fonva1·11 to 1.Jring· irule­ should b() 110 be some certainty who will cansti­ liPen l1e('i11etl tl1c1·e l1a ring met an,l sulnnit· lo the hon.

.AtLorncy­ with the Committee 1:ha1·geil imll\:ates praditioners that ll-oYet·n­ whether the Com­ would eany out I ga Ye noli<:e �ii-c of le>g,1l ml'Jl'l should L·OusiLler mittee ns constituted the inteution l)L'l':'Oll.
The suggestion dn.use (l)' the wonts ''not more than'' 1-l1011l1l 'l'he ol.,ject of mo\·· i11g l.l1:1t.

I he prnl'es:,;ion ·1<,tl ib opinion (;euc1·;d, t-he Yery i111po1:b111t c·l'ing slionhl is ex officio a the Attorney-GeJ1e1·al memucr of the Committee if you make i(, nol more than BCYen arnl in s11b-c.lause (10)make the quorum tlu·ee have the two Law .Officer:,; and n. single practiti011er importa.nt there should be a Committee of seYc11.
i.s that the qnorum Rltnll Tl1e proposal 11e three when there are :fi,·e membe1·s present aml five wlien the Coffi.ll1ittee complaints lie a slro11f:\' ag;t i11st pracl.itim1ers ('ommit.tee, nnd Mr. SEERAM: I a m supporting cha11g·e and it is regrettab1e for "\Yest thnt the _iA,tto1;lley-Ge11eral does not see a<lYoratecl Demerara_ 011 the part of anybocl�-practising matter.

'.l'he · idea i� that L'o11sicleril1g by the hon.

Member .ee.
Member .ee.

'J'he cl1::tnge scale arnl T 11rp; fnndioa uf nrn::;id­ wlt_1· tl1e1·e s11011lrl sl1011ld of tl1e Crown e on tlte of 1-he Com­ you may 11um­ the as an SU)!.

'· 701 Legal Practitioners' Bm 11 J A.

);'U.\nY 1!

)�9 -OommUtee.

702 I thinli:' profes­ is, fail' and reason­ his war to accept it.

The idea is to in­ practitioners.

clude experienced the change members of the leg·al sion are advocating a hle.
All we are asking is to save ns whose com­ clients from nm·,cn1p1tlous will no doubt plaints the Committee find am frivolous cases.

in 90 per cent .. of the was not necessarily there the Attor­ Ch�-i.r­ mention that although ney-General umu, he ,ms invariably iu addition of the p1·ofession Attorney-Ge11e1·al should preside ably absent.

to that the solicitors' branch· that thi/ always desil'e<l should be present and except he was unavoid­ Chairman.
Jn"'d Mr. CRANE: There are two points of the AUoi-ney­ on which of 1he his nJjcttlon that three persons al­ give satisfaction.

I take the arguments :igainst General.

One is the procedent lte has justified amell(1mcut, Yiz., ways sit aml it tliat the three are of the i,olicitors' branch alone.

In his country the two of the profession lhr11nches which is not the case here.

Roth branch­ es of the profes,;ion with the people, such .�ontact.
providecl Junm, the Att.oi-11ey-Ge11ei·al way to the view of the lrgal profession.

it is going to do the public no shoulcl It is a matter on which, here come in contact a re separa tc, and oflirials 110 not have give The ATTORNEY-GEN!RAL: The has the must necessarily it is not going to r unless thei-e a legal !practitione hon.

Member for West Demerai-a idea that a Committee sit with a, quorum only.
His arg11ment seems to amount to tl1is: If them is brought forward a frivolous complaint ngainst is n foll Committee dealt with.

You haYe only I.le prope1·ly to put the arg=ent that way to see t.hat it is not as sound as the hon.

mem­ ber thought when lie luought it for­ frum the judging :ward.

I mnst confess, mi111e1·ons lett<:r,, T get by way of com­ plaints in relation ers, that I have a very good idea how fril'olous '!
'here ,v,1.rd for \1'cst wl1id1 I tliiuk 1:orney-Gcneml is by slatnte a m�mbcr of the Committee, over a great number self haYe presided of meetings of whn,t' is there called the there Sometimes Committee.

Solicit.rm;' will lie a quorum of three and sometimes 1:iYe or six members.

I may a}.so are.

point I wish to put for­ to the h01:.

Member Dc>rncr-ara.
Member Dc>rncr-ara.

In the Colony to lte was referring, is another with 1·eferPnrr rna11y of these complaints the At- ex officio antl I my­ to legal practition­ for my own part, at the begimling I would 11ot think it at for a long time to come, I over any meeting un­ to tlcal with tJ1e matter so that 116 ri!,k.
I wonltl <lo consisted of fiYe members I myself shall be u mere of three persons lH'esent, and in tlw first So far as this me;umre is concerned, y!Gen­ if it passes into law, the (Attorn'e over the meetings of e!

'al will preside the Committee, and certainly shall not preside less the full number of the Committee was pre!:lent.

would be sufficient, any rate, tl!at there should fiUormn if the Cornm.
:ittee i11sta11ce fake care thnt all :fl.ye members were present there sl1onld be that mile;;<:: it was impossible member to be present.

to a memlier uo rno1·c risk f-ion here than elsewhere, Jmow and realise a quorum of three, experien i11g full attention them, knowing what is at stake on both Ritless, tlmt the fear they entertain is g-round­ sir, leRF-.

'l'herr are two amendments, to sub-clam;e;;, (!l) a11tl which I propose (11).
The first nmeudment of sub-clause firRt sente11re A,tto1·11e_ 1o re:111: of the Commit.tee be Chairman preside anrl the seconrl before tl1e w01·rl (11)he deleted.
h, that the word ''the'' "Secretary" of the profes­ a11<1 he woultl a11<1 I think members will fin,l to the matter before that, eYen if there is tliey would ced men trained y-Clcnen1.l fihall (9) be altered at meetings TJ1ere will lie in the law giY­ and slrnll "'l'lte is that the be three for any of the Committee"; in sub-clai1se The CHAIRMAN: IJ)opfi ber for ,Yest Demernra desil'e his :uuc;1tlrnent!

tlir hon.
tlir hon.

°M<'m­ to pres� Mr. CRANE: I have no ,Yi,:11 to pre,:� it if Government 110t going to wnste the ti.me of the Honse by putting the amendment.

is· ngainst it ailHl I am The CHAIRMAN : GoYernment, hav­ ing.

heard the remarks of the hon.

At- 703 Legcil Practitioners' Bill 11 JA.NF.\R\: 19-�9 -001nm.i-ttee.

704 l, is not preparecl to1•ney-Genera to ac­ cept.

the amendment of the hon .

i.Vlem­ llc�-"'-�for "\Ve�t Demeraara.


I <lo 11ot ·tb,ink that ought to clel.iar bei· from putting wishes to do so.

the hon.

mem­ if he his amendment Mr: CRANE: No, sir; I :usually do not like to.

· Que"stlon ''That this clause as amend­ eel stand 1mrt of the Bill" put, and -agreed to.

Clause ,1: Application to strike oJI the roll.

to which he re­ adjourned, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: When the Committee sir, the hon.-· nlember for "\Vest Demerara had pro­ posed an amendment to clause 7.
•rbe · nLle-making authority fers is an authority of Court.

This tribm1al.

the legal practitioners with by this Bill are officers of the Court.

Formerly would have taken place in the Court, whi.ch acted in a disciplinary m·anner in cases of misconduct.

that It must be remembered who are dealt is a sort of domestic i'or making Rules the whole proceeding The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: (3) in the last three words.

sub-clause "the Julges thereof," and ''thereof'' ",Judges.''

Sub-clause out.
Sub-clause out.

before (5) is to be struck and insert "three" out "the'' stl'ike In (.1uestion of the Bill" put, ''That this clause stand part ancl agreed to.

Clause S: Costs.

Mr. CRANE: I clo not propose to and I accept the move my amendment one hy the Attorney General.

Mr. CRANE: I do not move the amendlllent of which I have given no­ tice.

I agre!l with the Attorney Gen­ eral's.


The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Tl1e I propose is that clause 8 amendmeut be munbercd lowing i11sr.rte(l sub-clause (1) and the fol­ ns sub-clacse (2) : Question '''l'hM this clau�e as amend­ vVhere the Committee Jrn,s rep,.rted can be to the amenclllle11t ed stand part of the Bill" put, and ag·l'eed to ..

Clause 7: ,Judges lllay make rules.

Mr. CRANE: I uo not know what ob­ tl1ere of the three consisting members of the pro­ ug prnctice.
by the Uenci-­ Court are made by a rule-mak­ with the All ruies of the jection snggestecl in the memorandum legal profession to the Attorney al.

It is really i11 confonnity cxisti S11.pre111e i.11g authority Judges and certain fession appointed 'l'he authority be that rul.e-rnaki11g Rhoulll 011c tli i11g in favmu· of it is that you have uuiformity for mak­ ing rules.
I move tl1e amendment of which I have given the words "The Chief Justice concurrence Judges'' and insert in their place ''The rule-mak­ of the Supreme Court.''

ing authority viz., delete with the in the :first and second lines for making these rules of both or one of the Puis.ne of machinery notice, by the Chief J usti<:e. authority.
'.,I'he Committee adjourned foi-lunch, that there is no prima facie case of miscou­ a legal practitioner duct against he may for an order apply to a Judge in Chambers that the applicant do pay the costs of tile proceedi·ngs the application taxation.

before the Comnnttoe a:1d or on as shall be ascertained Qnestio11 "That thi8 clmrne aR mnc11d­ pnl't of the Bill" put, and ccl Rtall(l og1·eecl to.

Clau1>e !)

: Order of the Court entered on the RQll.

Mr. CRANE: I do not move my amcm1mc11t Attorney GQneraJ .
an<l I accept the one hy the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that the following for clause 9: clause be sulistituted Every Order of the CoiN·t made on con­ of a report .shall be clraw-n up· and if the to be struck sideration and passed by the Registrar, legal vractitioner is ordered <'.ff the Roll of .the Court or is suspendecl fr0m practice entry or �lteTation as shall be _r.equircg in the Roll of the C::!ur;-t by the Order; and he shall make snc:11 the Registrar 705 Legal Pr<icUtioncrs' Bi/L 11 JANUARY 1929_ -Committee.
'iOG shall cause a notice the opc-rative li8hecl in the Gazette.

part of the Order to be pub­ stating the effect 0!

Question put, Clnu.�c and agreed to.

10: Hegistrnl' to giYe iid'orm­ atiou to applicants.

M r. CRANE : I arn not moving my amcn<lment for the deletion of the wonl '•Hegi:,irar" I.mt I am i'oi-mally 1110,·ing the amcmlllicnt that the wo1·<ls "and to gire to :md1 pen;on, if required, nllvice ,1.s to the _form i n which complaints should be mac.le'' \.Jc· dclctcLl .
'l'hc legal profc�,;ioii :mlm 1 i t t h a t it would uc suf­ ficie11t J't,r .lite Hc-g istrar to explain the rnet li<•tl of 1,r,;<-1!1lu re to ;w a pvlicant who desire.-; to �nakc a <:omplai n t out ther obje<:t to the wonls ''amt to giYc to such T1erson, if required, ach ice as to the J'orrn i11 whi ch <·omplai11ts :-<-hould uc made. "

How t'ae t hat adri ce m,1y g-o i � j u st the trouhlc.
-g-riel'a u will go into tlte <Juei; l ion of The ATTORNEY-GEN E RA L : l du 11ot contcrnplate that tlitlicul t ics \\'ill a1isc .

It ii; 11ot tontc1nplulcd that the Hcg-b;l.i-; gil-iug people ath' ite w i th rc:;11crt to tlteii .

1\'hel'c a rnan wi�he:-; ll<:cs to rnakt• a c:omplaiut the1·e ll' ill be forms in t he :,;c:hcdulc setting· out t he fonn of ap1Jli l':1lio1 1 against a legal pr,,c lilionet· and the a<hice is to tell hint t o titl up the va i-ious tn that form.
lt must be Lorne in m ind tliat the Registra r iti not there, as the lion.

mt·mbcr propci-ly puts it, to a<l d:sc 1 1coplc, but a,; a n olliccr of the Court it is the d u t y of the Rcgi�.trnr to put 1 ,cnple wl1 0 w i � 1o i lll·oke the n nthori ty o f t l1t!

,Tu ,l.c:c i n n,c wa)· of fon 1 1 n ln ting Iii cir paragl'ap!Js with 1·c;<pc1·t comp l a i 11t.

Quci,1ion " Th a t, illi s c-lam:c :is pi-iHt• c<l sta n<l 11:u·t of the Bill " p u t, and a g-reetl to.

Cla 11 sc 12: A Pl)e:lls.


M r. C RANE : I ha.Ye gfrcn 110tiee of an amendment to tl1is clause : An appeal shall lie to the West I·ntlian Court cf App eal from an Orde1: ot the Court Wh<}reby any legal practitioner fo be struck •b e suspenclocl wise.

off the roll from practice, is orderec t or to out not other­ of the Court Imli.iu the l'Oll as csscn­ all'etl.s his griernnce .

'l'he only cli1lcrence 1'he rlause as clrnwn seeks to estab• a ucgaliYc.
lt is inlemlcd to uwJ,e system of Lhe ul!t\\"een it l the t:iuprcme Uourt is that it J.ish quite cleal' that a practitioner who has been �cruck off by the Full Coul' L or :;us1ic11Cle<l from practice shoulll llOt hare the i-iglll of ap1>eal to the "\Yest Court of Appeal.

I thiuk that is a rno::;t i-etrogmdc step.

Uulcss YCl'Y goou reasons exist the-right of appeal si10uld not be cul'tailed.

E·ve1·y British subject has a right to ventilate by an appeal-.
The West I udian Uourt of Appeal might Ile regarded t i ally 1•.irl of the j udicial Colo11y .tJl< tra\'els whereas the 8up1·cllle.

Court re­ mains ,;( a tiona1·y ; ULLL it is p a r t of o u t· i:;y:s lcm ,"inti when a rnau is p u t on t r i al i n a rnallc1· whkh sel"iously his mcu m; of liYclil10od he shoultl 11o t ue tolu if the lornl J udgcs take a ccl' tain ricw that lie ought to Le sal i:,;ticd ancl go 110 furlher.
By special lea re a solic­ ito1· w ho ha.-; Liccn sln1ck off Jws cxel'ciscll the right of ii ppcal to J I is '1\la jcsty's 1>1·iY'y Uouncil.

'l'ha t has l ,ce11 do11e in the 1teig·hbo11.l'i ng Uolouy of 'l'l'inidatl <Juite recen tly.
'fhe rcaso11 ·1•.-hy the \\'est was esta1Jlisl1etl was to curtail the ne­ r·es:-;i t y ol' g-ui11g-from the h ighn; t Coul't in t he Colollies to t he Pi-iYy Council, so ,that i.f a nrn n wc11t l o a scl of J udges 11;ho came to the Colony rwitlt a fresh a ml oven mintl antl who had 11eyer hcal'll of tha t man before i t woulcl he i:;ul'lideut a ml he woultl Dot ha \'C to go to the Pl'iry Coun<:il at.all.
I submit tlia t Lit dol!s 1;ot gi.ve a vcq good ap- 1>cara nce to tlli s Bill that thcl'c shonl<1 he 110 a p1w.1l <le­ c i,lt':; 1 hat a p 1·acti t io 1 1 r r sliottld lie i-; ln1<:k ·otr.

For a ll :prac lital p urposes t lie l1' 1 tl1 Con rl is a Court.

of ii L"St in­ s la nee, aiHl yet ;you say <:atcgo i.-ically that ;thcl'C �l,oultl lie no appeal to t h e 1Vcst I1uli a n Court of A ppeal.

You put a nm n to tlic expense of goil1g to England to C]l(lcavour ,)fajesty's Wl'ong.

:!
:!

'he 1·cason wns made directly cil uefore is because mediate Court.

a positio:a to appeal to His Privy Con11cil.

I think it is ·why a n appeal to the ;I.

'l'iry Coun­ wl:rn i l i c Full <:0111-t Tlldinn Court of A p p<'a I A man ought to be in we hncl 110 inter­ to exhaust eyery ru'.

!n.ns of 707 Legal Prctc:titiuncn/ BW 11 J.i�u.H:Y 1!)2!)

-Committee.
-Committee.

( 708 he consiclen; havi11g what c.xhausti\'c tl"ial 0U1e1· ame11dmc11l:; lrnt in this t;1:,;c 1 · a:;1� that the arncnd­ mwt I.Jc put to tlie rote aud recorded.

of his gl'ie,·aHte.
of his gl'ie,·aHte.

l did not press, a fair and The they arc reside11t liecau:,c that the Judge;; of with and they Collie iu cu11tact ·, wulllll mean to indicate the Colo11y, llc1·c tlia t pmcti.tio11e1 of jmlgiug cqtuta uly aml fairly any case iu which he i:; conccn1cd than ,Tudgc:s lie ·le:,:, capal.ile gaYe even 1i11d:; Al torney of any case that the1·e is capal.Jle to ::;upvo1·t case made out.

On of of exer­ tlte standnnl i:, no per:son who point.
,Ve :-;,1y r pn rlicul:u- from the lcat11etl Mr. SEERAM : I Leg i:-; a very iJ1lporta11t 1''rom tlw 1nol'i:;ious u11til 11t ;,hon 1,1 go 110 fnrll1e1· f i.,dc ca:;e i::; 11ot made out the �rho had not sccll hi111 lieiorc.

Mr. CRANE c That i:; posHibly the extent and snggesteu :limls that a ILa t. �l'he co11s�ntttioa from a brnntl would lJUiut <if Yiew, I.Jut I 1·egl'ct ha ,·c put (hat co11:;{n1c­ constrnetio11 Uene1·al"s that he :,houl1l tion on it.

'!
'!

'here has a greater respctt for the ;Bench th:111 rny;;clf.

I muke or thi:, l'olo11r lJoltl i:,; to :-:1_1· ( llw t .J ttdgcs l'orning i10t lrnO\r or :111. and lltat was the 1·ca:-;ou fm 1.lw ,e:-;tablisl11ne11 Cuu1-t of },ppcal.

di;tJl gesti11g unfair hamlliug liy 1.hc 8Lt[n·cme 1Court ihas maintn.inecl 1jw;ti1·e auy Colo11y cising.

tho of a111emlmeut.
tho of a111emlmeut.

this ;mu it i::; quite dear tl!a t a mat­ ter ca IL lJc ta ken to the �Olll't i.l1ou�ll tl1e Co111mit.tce i::; 110 prim a. f (tt·il: 1.hat point 1thc legal profession way 1.o a certain that when the Committee 7J1·i111ci compla.i11,i J10 gins security for costs.

Uufol'1 n­ that :11ncrnlment nately, Jim; 11ot 1Jcen acceplell _hy the Attor11cr GellCl'al.
};1Ll tl1i:,; that when the Com·t onlcn, that a lie sln1ck olf the roll or prnditiuHcr :-hunld lie the l'iglLt :;u:;pe11dcll of thc1·e appeal t.o the "\\Te:,t lmlian Com·t of i,; a ,rca:sonable request.

Appeal.

'l'hai .A, great hanl:ship if 11th-: right i:s not giye11.

Uic matter ,i:-; one uf 1>lll'h :wcc that ,1J1yune who falls umlcr thi� he dcsil-cs lo law :should go i'm-thc1· if <lo so.

'l'he ]1011.. member say::; he is going to 1nc,;,; for a dirii,ion.
I carn­ e:stly hope that there ,vould be no 11ece:;sity 1·casonableness Lvrn.1.ncntl arnl that the of the amendment will t of the ,Ye.st In­ I am not sug­ "\\Tc say 1.ha.t dtal iJUpol't­ pcr,mn, put forward in these Colonies appeal:;.

nw y lie inilictcll Cuttrt.

'l'he 8upreme The ATTORNEY-GE_NERAL: I may say with reganl :to the West Indian Court of .A.ppc:11 that the rnason for its comiug into exh;tence was that formerly from a :,i.uglc Judge went to the Full Comt of the Colony.
'l'hut usually meant two Judges ,1.Jccau:se ,dw fried the ea,-;e was discnt.itlerl �o sit, and if the two Judges (liffcrcll judgment of the first Judge hchl, hence it w:1:, decided after a confereuc e of the various Colonies be a ,Vest Indian Court pf Appeal, antl tJiat was carded out liy Act of l'adinmcnt 1Vhat I want to in 1!11!1.

eall attention Court of Appeal h; a Court lnllian of A:ppcal the piace ot' what w,1s the l!

'nll Co1ut in these It is rerfcclly Colonic;;.


vr:1clitio11cr 1·crcnt a 1ul I pi·esume not go t:o the Appeal ancl i.lterc to the Full Court.

What must be is that there is no clearly appeal fr!

)m the Full Cour� of auy Col- true that by here n.11d in Trinidad, ch,ewliere, all appeals ,Vest Indian Court of' are some that still go why there should I 1o the "'e:,i Imlia11 for ,Vest iDcmera.ra, at some of surprise liy tl1c hon.

member in 11g hi,; a1·gm1w11t:s. fore denli11g with the points rai,�ed the hon.
�lellllJc1· I wh;h lo cxprc:-;:, the wol'Cl,; used :;;11ppol'ti 011c of the rea::;011:, h<' a 1·ig-ht Com·t of Appral is that i£ nn order i� made ag-ain�t a lc•g·al l11ei·e knew noll1iJ1g anything to hear the .appeal.

my hon.

friend weighed tho:se words, and if he clocs I think he would with­ draw �hem,.

I am sm·e he clid ;not woultl be strm1gc Judges who of him a11d 11c1·er to the Colony I do not think The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: to is this.

The West it:, accepla.ncc.


which has i.akc1t that there shoulll of him 1.:oming for a divi:,ion legislation umlerstood He :,aid that of :1 pp<':t foe Judge J1eanl Be­ lJy the do 709 Legal J>ractiti ,oncrs' BUl 1i JANUARY 1929 .

:._Oonimittee.

710 'A mo­ that a lnlli, person to act as assumiiig })l'Ovided that one is tibsent, except before three Judges.

means that �f by auy chance there fact.

It ha':,; been in sub-clause (3) ouy to the ·west Imliau Court of Appeal.
That is au imlulJitalJle specifically of clause 4, as iunemled to-day, of the Legal Prac­ motion on the l'eport to the Court shall titionel':,;' Committee he b.eard before a Court of three J,udges.

'l'Jiat happens to be only two Judges in the it Cololly, will be the duty of the Governor, sir, to the power conferred on him by cxc!
'cise the Supreme Court Ordiuance, a qualified and appoint a Judge ·of tl1e Supreme Court, so that in no one of these cases would tion l,c hear'i:1 My point is that in no 'case is there ever from an appeal in any of these Colonies the Full Court to the "re::;t I]l(lian Court of Appeal, but where a matter has been dealt with by the Full Court an appeal goes to Hi1:; M.afe'i:ity cil, and it h; specifically where the Full Court has given its de­ party has to go cision the unsuccessful to _the IGHg does is to put the law p1·ovision specific with what is now here in consonance tJ1e law.
:.l'he right of 1a solicitor to appeal t_?

the Klng in Council is not taken away, spccinl has been very carefully thought out, and it is well that no anomaly should be created the decisimi to three Judges of the West Irnlian Court of A.ppeal.

given more tli,ought perhaps than the and he hon.

me1nber had imagined, the provision of probably clause 4 (3) as to these matters being :Ji,eard before a Court constituted three Judges.

leave 'to appeal.
leave 'to appeal.

The matter and he <loes uot requil'e by sending au ;appeal of three Judges here 1provide1l that The matter J1as beeu All that this had forgotten in Council.

fro11l in Couu­ of Si;heclule.-R .ules.

be sub:;titutecl iin Hule:; 1, 3 and -.b as I Mr. CRANE: I do not propose to move the amcmlmeut that the word for the word "$ecrctary" "l{egistrar" agree with the Attorney General on that pofot.

I du uot know if the lea1'1�­ ed move1· of this Bill con:;idcred fect of rule 4.
It provides:- ;the ef­ The notice iahall require the ap-plicant respectiv ely to and to each othsr arnl the .le,;sal practitioner to the Registrar curnish a list of all documents on which they re­ p·ropose spectively trnle,ss otherwise tee, be fttrnished the legal practitioner respect the day o,f hea,ring.

1 fourteen days befo,re to 1Tely.


ordered by the Commit­ and 1by by the a'P'l)li:oant Such lists shall,, ively at· 1east and that the English rule should 1tlays The objection to this rule is that as well as the practition proposal simultaneously er, Lhe �pplicant theil•, ' must within the same time prepare both To -require list of documents.
to put in tJ1ei.r documents parties with­ might in fourteen create a great hardship on the party the complaint, who is to a1iswer I sulnnit There is 110 justifica­ be ;;uh1:;tituted.

the Engli;;h rule to go, tion i.n copying rule relating to · away from the cardinal to resort 'to matter:; of this kind and must put i;h,is .

in the list of documents days.

I move that the words "and.


by at t.11c legal practitiolle the day of least fourteen out mul after the hearing" in the last line but word "applicant" one the words "not later than the :fourteenth notiee, within seven days after lie has receiv­ ed the li.,:it furnished be inserted.

with what olJtains r respectively :.l'l1at brings it into Hue by the applicant" d:iy after service that bot.h parties days ,l!eforn within fourteen in E1igland.
be strn<'k of the said ai1tl by the legal practitioner Question "That this clause as amend­ ed stand part of the Bill " put, and ne­ gatived.

Clause 15.-Rules.

The ATTORNEY -,GENERAL: I move the sub;stitution: ·'seven" of the third line.

for the word "eight" pf the wonl at the end Question put, and agree1 t_o.

I when I as The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: to English legislation been censured liavc :frequently liave referred my guide.
I should like to point out that there are two provisions rules ·wliich any mistake which might happen to occur through inadvertence, provisions are rule 18 (which gives pow- can be availed in these of to remedy and those l"s' Bill 711 Legal Prnctitione' '\ 11 J.\NUARY 1929 • I t' -doinni-ittee.

712 or time, in service things.

notices, fthc events It <loc::; respecting 'l'he are relevant.

arc :made aml you have for him if he is a 1ie1·suJ1 happen :sorneti.Juc:,; that the Committee makes a.
·complaint iu rcfcrcnrn like '.t;o point ottt that art this u11tler points.

er to the Commit!ee �o dispense with a11y requirements documents, atlicla..-its, any �asc where it appears to the Com­ mittee to be just iso to do) and.

20 (which provides llilJ.Y extend the time for doing any­ tll.ii1g rules ,'l'hese under these rules).

are there to be used, and they arc prac­ the same as ccrlain 1·ulcs of tically Court ;with which J)raditioncn; arc very familiar.
that mistakes to go to· the Court and ask for an px­ tenslon of time to do .�crtain ;B.ut ,I shoulcl ,applicaut to specific enactment is jl>ut a lay­ "'\7,ery often the applicant man and an i11expericnccd party who in.ight very well make a mistake of what documents of a legal practitioner is dif­ p_osition He must l1a vc records in his ferent.

o1lice which will show [�11 whi�h have taken place, and there is no <lµliiulty of oi:de1· in a matter in which .a client has con­ sulted him.
lie is a trainell I cannot conceive in hix Selecting what durumc11 ls beat· 011 the subject matter; but if he makes a mis­ take there is no di"llicul ty in his get­ ting a remedy and it is fair that both pal't.ies <':td1 �Yell known practice the case of litigation t.h i11gs that the plaiutiil' ant does, ,as the case may be, h; to np­ pcar befoi·e on the SlllllllOJis for directions for directions men ns disclosure bearing on the case.
'1':he it is that the order 1s ma<lc for mutual at tl1c i;;ame time, a1Hl it h; n di,-;C'OYery matter that im·oh-es deal of n great trouble ·:rncl of care a great t\eal because the man is peualiscd precluded <loes not make the he has to swear 1that .these are all the or in the clocuments and if he .

Further, disclosure other at the same time.


It is a in 'England as to discovery, :which o'f every document one of the first or the defend­ to put his haml on tlic docwncnts should giYe their documents the ,Judge in Chambers from giviug eYidence in his possession any difficulty point nl>out la wycr n1ul and to ask that in to on anybody.

of his solicitor or agent.


possession This rule is only in accordanc e with thatl prnctice and it is not going to work �arclship for 'rhc ,remedy is that r,vou can get the inadverte11cc ancl it is not time exteuclecl and I venture going to do auy injustice, to think it is an-imp1•oyemcnt on what hns been done in 'England.

or :waived Mr. ;CRANE: I am Yery proud to learn that we �an i1t1pL"ovc (Laughter).

on Engl:1ncl.

Question '' That rule J lie passed as printed" put, and agreed to.
Rule 21.-Pol'ms The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: 21 will become rule 22 and the follow­ iJ1g inserted as rule 21 :- 21.-(1) An applicati on by a legal Rule practitioner for an order for costs unde'· the provisions of section summons filed with the Registrar.

8 (2) shall be by ('2) A sealed copy of the summon� shall be served on the applicant not less than seven days before the return there-Of.

(3)There shall be fil<:.d with tM before Uie hea,ring Registrair mons an affidavit of service mons.
of the sum• of the sum Question put, and agreed to.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that in all �he the forms fur the words '"Legal .Practitioners dinance, tione1:s Regulation �ubstitutcd.

(!Discipline) "Legal l'racti­ r' be 1!)2!.

Ordiualll:e, 1!>28" the wol'<ls Or­ Question put, aud agrecll to.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that at the end of the first clause of li'mm II.

the ,word "just" be substituted for the word "right."

Qne,-tion put", aiHl up:l'ec<l to.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: in Form VI.


below "Notice hc,nil1g of Ilcport" the Supreme Cou1·t of British Guiana" of "In the insertion I move of dny oi 713 Legal Pract'itl,oners' Bill.

11 JANUARY 1929 -Third Reacz.inr;.

714 and that the ,vorcl da trnc of the form be deleted.

"Full" in the ;first Question put, and iigrcccl to.

A new I<'on1i VII.

was al::;o agreed to.

The Council resumed.

Thq SlaHdi11g snspcmlell a thinl time and pas8etl.


to erntlJle 1-{ules .�nd Orders were tlte Bill_ to be read The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that.

the Bill be read a third time.

Mr. AUSTIN seconded.

"'l'hat Question this Bill ,be now read a thil'd time and passed" put, and agrcetl to.

Biil read a thil'cl time and passed.

'rho Council ,a(ljou1·ncll d:i,r, :!Ulh Fel.

!1-u;n·,r, Hl:![I.

until 'rues­