Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698077403358.pdf (Guyana)
� 481 Members Present LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Central).

COUNCIT,, Unofficial Notices 482 The Hon.

J. Fernandes (Georgetown , WEDNESDAY, 3rd MARCH, 1948.

The Hon.

W. 0.

R. Kendall (New Ams tcrclam).

The Hon.

Dr. C. Jagan (Central Demerara).

The Council met at 8 · p.m., Sir Charles M.C., President, the Governor, K.C.M.G., O.B.E., His Excellency Woolley, in the Chair.

Berbice).

The Hon.

C. A. McDoom (Nominated), The Hon.

A. T. Peters (Western The Hon.


W. A. Phang (North Wes�- ern District).

PRESENT: The Hon.

G. H. Smellie (Nominated), The President, His Excellency The Clerk read prayers.

Governor, K.C.M.G., Sir Charles M.C.

O.B.E., Campbell the Woolley, The minutes of the meeting of the held on the 27th February, were taken as and circulated, Council as printed read and confirmed.

1948, The Hon.

the Colonial (acting).

D.J.

Parkinson Secretary, Mr.

The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. GOVERNMENT NOTICES.


E.M. Duke (acting).

The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer, Mr.

EXPLOSIVES (AMENDMENT No.

2) REGULATT.ONS, 1948.

E. F. McDavid, C.B.E.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL (Mr.

The Hon.

C. V. Wight, O.B.E., (Western Essequibo).

Duke, acting) ing mction:- gave notice of the follow­ The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, C.B.E., (Nominated).

The Hon.

Dr. J.

B. Singh, O.B.E., of "That this Council approves No.

(Amendment the Explosives 1948."


2)Regulations, UNOFFICIAL NOTICES (Dernerara -Esseq uibo).

T.& H. DEPARTMENT LABOUR DISPUTE, The Hon.

Dr. J.

A. Nicholson, (George­ DR JAGAN gave notice of the town North).

following motion:- The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo ,.

'The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

* The ·Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nomi- River).

neted).

n-ated).

nated).

The Hon.

W. J. Raatgever (Nomin- The Hon.


G. A. C. Farnum (Nomi- WHEREAS the relationship of the Transport the Management Harbours Department the Transport organised Union has deteriorated that the prospect remote; and Harbours in the Transport Depa:,tment Workers' ◄ to such a point seems between and of.
of reconciliation and employees AND WHEREAS on account of the • and staff of the Transport relationship between the strained present Management and Harbours Department terest is seriously this Department Departments with organised threatened , public in­ not only in labour; but in other Government The Hon.

D. P. Debidin (Eastern Demerara).

BE IT RESOLVED that this Honour- able Council strongly investigation for be held into the reasons that an recommends j .

483 Tax (Admt.)

3 MAilCH, 1948.

Bill, 1948.


484 strained relationship and the Union.

and that the present the Mana.t(cmcnt after the investigation mitted to the Legislative and action.

sideration the report be sub­ f6r con­ Council between gollon.

That is to say, it in­ per prouJ: CTcases the Excise Duty by 25 cents pet· proof gallon.

I would like to invite thr; of hcin.

Members of this Council · attention to subclause (2) (a)· of clause 2 of th is that Bill.
It pl'Oviclcs "the rate of duty char_geable under subscdion (I) u{ the section shall be raised levied and collected rum and other suirits within of that subsection upon all the rneanin,g -- to the thirtieth (a)entered prior day of December.

nineteen hundred and forty-seven, consumption in any case where the dut:v payable in respect of such nnn or spirits was not paid prior to such date;" in the Colony, for REMUNERATtoN FOR UNOFFICIAL MEMBERS.
MR. LEE gave notice of the following motion:- WHEREAS it is desirable that Un-• Mernbers official Executive Councils of this Colony should be adequately remunerat.ed vices: of the Legis"lative for their ser­ and AND WHEREAS the UcoHicial Mem­ bers of the ,Legislative Island or Trinidad Colonies pective of the and other West Indian hy their res­ are remunerated Colonies: Councils BE IT RESOLVED that this Hono:1r­ recommends to the Governor able Council that Unofficial Council their services of the Cclony be remunerated - as hereunder fo1: Members of the LegislRlive Council Members of the Leg­ Council who are Mem­ (a)Unofficial islative bers of the Executive at the rate of $2400 per annum with from the 1st January.
1948: e!

'fect Members of the Leg­ (b)Unofficial Council who are not islative Members of the Executive Coun­ cil at the rate of $1680 per annum with effect from the 1st Jan­ uary, 1948.

ORD EH OF THE DAY.

TAX (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1948.


Motion for the second reac1lng of the following Bill:- claimed - that so long and claim - and I understand from the Custcms De­ that some persons have been issued before in the fo1· rum for consumption have been in the habit of takinf; out what are callee\ "Warrants" partment Colony when there is any possibility or of the Excise Duty being likelihood increased.
Some persons pay the duty, but others do not but just keep the War­ rants in their possession the,v have a1''1a?s as the Warrants the change was rnadE: in the rate of duty they were only liable to pay duty at the rate which was in force at the time when were issued by the C'ustoms the Warrants Department.

(a) The object of paragraph of subcla·use (2) of clause 2 of this Bill is to provide.
that in any such case the; Excise Duty which will be payable on mm which i'i referred by this shall be the Excise Duty provided Bill so lon_g as the duty was not paid prior to the 30th December, 1947, that being the day on which this Bill was introduced in this Council and read a first time.

to in Warrants A Bill intituled " An Ordinance fur­ ther to amend the Tax Ordinance.

1948."
1948."

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL ·: The motion which stands in my name on the the Order Paper is mtended to implement in the Budget statement proposals of the: hon.

the Colonial Treasurer which wa3 made in this Council on the 30th Decem­ ber, last year.

The Tax (Amendment) Bill is one of the measures which -are required The .other measure is the Customs Duties (Amendment) Bill the Order Paper of this day.

which stands next on to implement those proposals.


Clause 2 of the Tax (Amendment) Bill increases taken or ony from $6.00 per proof gallon to $8.25 sold for consumption the Excise Duty on rum, in the Col­ for a Clause 3 of the Bill provides new tax, a tax on gold not exported from the Colony.

This tax is only leviable on gold not exported from the Colony, and it is to be at the rate of 25 per cenium of the value of the gold.
At the present time there is an Export Tax on gold, and that Export Tax is regulated for i n the Customs Duties Ordinance, 1935, and it is proposed Duties (Amendment) that Export Tax and to levy under this Bill a tax of 25 per cenium on the value of .all gold which is not exported the Colony.

The hon.

the Colonial Bill not to abolish in the Customs and provided from COUNCIL.

Bin, 1948.
Bin, 1948.

486 would be more administratively conveni­ from ent to have the date commencing the 1st April, 1948, than on the 30th December, 1947. of the introduction 485 Tax (Am,clt.)

LEGISLATIVE in his Bud.e;et Statement has Trcasurc1· for the sug­ stated what were the reasons of this tax.

gestion Those reasons are fresh in your minds and they appear in the Budget Statement which has b:::en printed and circulated.
With respect which this Tax of 25 per cEntum is leviecl, subclause the gold shall from time to time be fixed by the Governor-in-Council.

(3)says: to the value of the gold on Subclausr!

(2) provides that the value of "The Tax shall b2 coilccted from of gold who is the holder every producer , or iease, of a concession claim, on which gold is obtained or b:v means ere with machinery crushing and also from machinery; of clredgin_g every holder o.f a licence or licence for a by to trade in _gold."
The tax, where payable by a producer, is to he paid at the time 'Nhcn royalty is paid on the gold, and where it is paid to trade in gold by the holder of a licencl:!

the tax is to be paid within seven days of the last day of every month.

The to trade in gold is holder of a licence by la,N to keep records in due required and proper form of all transactions he has had with respect to gold.
which Subclausc (7) provides that a pro­ of the ducer of gold may with the consent of Lands and Mines enter Commissioner into a bond for the payment of $20,000 if he does not export the gold within one month after the payment of royalt�' - I{ of gold enters into ,uch a bond a producer to pa_v this tax at the time he is not liable of pa�rment One of the prin­ of this bond is that the cipal conditions If thl:!re is any failur-� gold be exported.
with the provisions in complying of Lands and bond, the Commissioner Mines has power under the clause to take the tax which the proper steps to recover is due to this Government.

of royalty.
of royalty.

of tlv" hy distributors Clause 4 provides for a tax on film at the rate of 15 per centum upon from as rent for the hire as from the 1947, of films for It to ask for an rentals the amounts received exhibitors 30th clay of December, exhibition is proposed to this amendment of that provision extent: That the tax shall he leviable from the 30th December, in tl1c Bill bnt as frnm the 1st day of April, 1948.

The reason for that is that it in cinematograph in Committee not 1947, as stated theatres.
representations to amend that by substituting in firstly run by the Dem­ run by the Dem­ from the issue It is proposed Clause 5 of the Bill provides run by the Dem­ from the Demerara Turf (I) of the suustituted that the tax shall be levied takes place on or 1947.

With res­ for a tax on sweepstakes for a tax erara Turi Club, and »econdly run on the course at any on sweepstakes race meeting in the Colohy.
With res­ pect to the sweepstakes erara Tu.rf Club, the rate of the tax, as stated in the Bill, is 15 per centum upon the gross sum received and sale of tickets.

Committee for 15 per centum 12 ½ per centum.

After this Bill was published were received Club, and it was agreed to accept the pro­ of the Club that the posal of the Director& tax should be levied at 12 ½ per centun, and not at the rate of 15 pel' centum.
section Subclause 7C provides of sweepstakes in respect erara Turf Club where the draw for the or sweepstakes lottery after the 30th December, pect to that, it is proposed to ask that that date be amended to read "commencement There has been a draw quite recently in which was run respect between the date of the first reading of this Bill and the present time, and the have already proceeds with the been distributed law which was then in force.
So it is instead of "the 30th day of prooosed December, (I) of the new section should be substituted this Ordinance."

Ccinmittee (4).

(5), (6) and (7) be rlcleterl.

ations 'V<>re marle hy the Demerara Turf Clul1 in this matter, arcept the propooal Club that this tax should be abandoned, ;rnd that it �hould be replaced by an cxtention tainments tion 50 of the Tax Ordinance of the application Tax which is imposed by sec­ and it was a!
[reed to of the Directors of that sweepstake 7C the words "commencement It is also proposed of a sweepstake that subclauses of in (3), in accordance in Committee Reoresent­ to lTIOVC!

of the Enter­ of 1939. of the 1947," as stated in subclause of this Ordinance."

It is also Proposed to insert a new clause after clause 5 to be numbered cl.wse 6, and that provides certain in Committee in the rates of estate variations for 4G7 Tax (Amdt.)

3 MARCH, 1948.

B'ill, 1948.


488 of a there is .a and in respect up to $50,000 there there and on the larger estates in the rates.

In respect of is a slight re­ of estates For is an increase.

which do not exceed duty.

On the smaller estates reduction, is an increase estates duction, higher value foer.� on estates instance, $2,500 in value, the present rate is 5/8%, and in the Bill it is %%.

There has been to Members of the Council a circulated showing the percentages statement rates of duty.
present and the proposed Unfortunately, the second page of that Stateme11t is not in its proper place.

I think Members would find it about three pages in front oi page one.

of the Municipal town at the following of th,, said city or rates:- boun0.aries (a)where payment does not exceed ; 12c.--2c ' (b)where pa�,ment excecrls 12c.

but drws not ::xceecl 24c.

- 4c.

; (r)where payment exceeds 24c but does 1101.

CXCC<.

!cl 48c.

- 6c.

; (ct) where payment exce,,ds- 48c.

but cines not exceed 72c.

- oc.


; (e)where payment .,xceeds 72c.

-12c.

in entertainments The PRESIDENT: It is the fourth page!

and New boundaries boundaries It is proposed or within one mile of the that in' Committee 50 be amended in this way: At time the duty is only charge­ enter­ of cincmatograph is held when such entertainment or the town or within one mile of George­ It is proposed to delete the words restrict­ of the duty to entertain­ seciion the prefent able ip.
respect tainment in the City of Georgetown, of New Amsterdam, of the municipal town or New Amsterdam.

in Committee ing the levying ments held in Georgetown Amsterdam, municipal mean that the duty would be leviable of cinematograph respect held in any part of the Colony.

There was a time when the country cinema theatres were not very good, but at the present time that is not the case, and in the that the theatres it is considered country districts should also be liable to duly.
Then there is a pay entertainment further amendment that where the pay­ ment exceeds 72 cents, 96 cents, the duty will be 12 cents, and 96 cents the where the payment exceeds duty will be one-sixth of the payment for admission.

but does not exceed thereof.
That would the present rate is 1 ¼ %, and the rate is 3¾ % and the of The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: In res­ pect of an estate which does not exceed $2,500 the present rate under the Bill is 1 % ; in resi:,ect of an estate which does not exceed $10,000 the present rate is 2 ',� % and the pro­ posed rate under the Bill is 2 % ; in res­ pect of an estate which dces not exceed $25,000 rate uncler the Bill is 3%; in respect an estate which does not exceed $50,000 rate 6 ¼ % and the rate und2r the present the Bill is 5%; and then after that there is an increase.
lar.e;e estates estates on the small estates It is proposed in Committee, Treasurer tioned that proposals in respect tate dnty.

to insert this new clause but the hon.

the Colonial have been increased, So the rat�s on the very would be submitted have been redvced.

of variations in his Bud.rset in the rates of es­ Statement men­ and the relatively larg,� but the rate� Tax.

The Entertainments I also propose in Committee to ask to be clause be inserted for the recovery Chap.
104, prescribes the of Entertain­ that a further numbered Clause 7 dealing with the Entertainments Duty Ordinance, procedure ments Duty wherever such duty is im­ posed by a Tax Ordinance, 50 of the Tax Ordinance stituted 3 of the Tax Ordi­ nance, No.

8 of 1945, is as follows:- Duty shall bt!

paid in on to r.-�spect of all p,wmenis for ac1missi any cinematog1·aph entertainment hPld in the Ciw nf C:em·g01c,wn.
nr the inwn nf New Amsterdam, en within one mile of "Entertainment by section of 1939, as sub­ and section I have already mentioned that in the an cnter­ un the race­ to the last paragraph of this that some appre­ place of the tax which it was proposed to levy on swecpsiakcs run course there will be substituted ta inment duty, and the object of the addition amendment is to provide ciable amount should be recovered respect ment for admission duty will be one-sixth admis!'ion.
copy o( the amendment circulated, that there the end- of the payment for from the which has been in where the pay­ It will be observed of race meetings exceeds 96 cents, the arc some words at "in the case of horse racing, payment for ndmission this section, s}•-ill. be llcemctl for the purpose;, o( to have been 489 Tax L4dmt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Bill, 1948.

490 made where payment is ordinarily charged for admission admitted without payment".
and a person is So that if at any race meeting per­ entertainment made for admission, whether or not sons are given free tickets duty will be payable, payment is actually but that only applies should mention that it is proposed the provisions 50. of the Tax Ordinance, tograph entertainment, be extended to horse racing entertain­ ment but also to cycle racing entertain­ ment.

which only apply to cinema­ should not only to horse racing.
I that of section lic:mce for the time being in or substituted for the the holder of a of this Ordinance, under the Colonial Ordinance (Consoiidatiori) " (18J The holder of a goldsmith's fifty-two unck•I section or a dentist registered Medical Servic.'?

or any Ordinance force amending same, may, without being licence from ti1c holrler golrl if �urh purchase i� in accordance with the regulations for the tim'?
berng in force under the Mining (Consolidation) Orrli nancc 01· any Ordin<1nce subsi.itu1ecl to trade in gol,l, pucchast: gold trade in of a licence to amending or for lhe same: that nc golcl shall be !

:>old or until the une'er this sub-i·,,ction Prnvi<.l�d purc-ha:::erl.

royalty payable thereon has been paid."

Clause 6 of the Bill as printed will as clause 8, and clause 7 of have been made It is be re-numbered as clause 9.
There have been several of the "Mining Regulations amendments amendments 1931, which under the Defence Regulations.

proposed that those Defence Regulations should be revoked, those Defence intended, tained in clauses printed.

the issue of what is called a goldsmith's licence.

of Regulations which, it is should remain in force is con­ 6 and 7 of the Bill as Clause 7 as printed _but the substance provides It reads: for amen<'ied fifty-one, '·7.

The Principal by the iriscrr of the following 52.


(1) Any g,)ldsmith Ordinance ion, aftci section new scctinn- is hereby who rlesir:,s as a golcl.smith ihe hohier of a for the pnrposes gold, from tc, ptu·chase to trade in golct, licence of his business 01· trarle shall make an ;:ipplica1 rhe Commi<;sioner for a licenc., therefor referred shall speci(y proposes trade as a goldsmith."
of Lanris and Mines (in this Ordinance l;cencc) anrl in which he or t0 as a goldsmith's the premises co carr.v on his business ion in wrir,ing to The licence is to be an annual one, licence (4) which pro­ shall be of any to the provisions and the duty payable shall be one dollar.

Then there is sub-clause vides that a goldsmith"s issued subject Mining Regulations for the time being that (6) provides in force.
Sub-clause every holder of a golds1_nith's shall licence keep proper books and make a return every month to the Commissioner Lands and Mines, showing the quantity ·of gold purchased question, quantity provides: during the month in used, and the of gold in hand.
Clause 6 (b) the quantity of That is an exception to the general to rule that only a holder of a licence trade in gold shall be entitled either to purchase or to sell gold, and the pro­ vision in clause 6 (b) of the printed Bill to is complementary clause 7 of the printed Bill.

I now move that the Bill be read a second time.

and supplementary in to speech although somewhat en­ proceeds subjects, in one Tax Bill.
Consequently way on the second reading large number they are all I have a suggestion Members will appre­ The COLONIAL TREASURER: I beg any to second the motion and to reserve remarks I may have to make until a later siage.

However, put to the Council.

ciate from the Attorney-General's that this Bill covers a fairly of separate embodied I feel that if the discussion the orclinal'y we may get ourselves meshed and may never come out.

TI1e principle Therefore more taxation.


spectfully to the Council suggest would allow the substantive put for the second reading debate, and then we would go into Committee and consider each clause as a separate subject.

That woult.1 to proceed in a more coherent than if we took Lhe whole Bill in a gen­ eral debate.

I make that suggestion because I really believe that Members would get a better appreciation object of r.ach clause.
enable the debate manner of the Bill is simply to provide without motion to be I would re­ that they of the M1·.

DEBIDIN: Before the motion to make a few in is put may I be permitted remarks on the Bill.

The propos;1ls the attitude this Tax Bill clearly reflect of -some Members of the Council during the clcbalr!

Budget.

It is my painful gidc of the duty to draw on the expenditure .491 (Adrnt.)

3 MARCH, 1948.

Bill, 1948.

492 dis:::atisfaction regarding the pro­ of the in­ taxation of the Colony.
It is true that Tax the attention of tbe Council to the fact that everywhere I have met people of the Colony, whether in the City or in the rural areas, the greatest has been expressed posal to increase habit,mts every endeavour going to support most of those proposals to l·ai:;c deficit not draw the aLLeutiun the feeling taxiltion.

in the Bill which strike direcily some of them indirectly people of the Colony.
revenue to meet the budget , but that is no reason why I should of the people as regards There are mea�ures n10rc proposed will be made-and I am , at the poor of the Council to , and There are two types of luxuries-one luxury and the other which is pLffely what may be termed an essential luxury.
1n the sam<:o way as �, man 1s entitled to 1.ive in a decent house, he should have the necessary comfort� Luxuries rum give him the comfort he deserves after a hard day's work, and encourage­ ment to continue his work.

niat house.
niat house.

like tobacco a,1d a schnapp of within� There are certain proposals which will be dealt with in Committee, but as they are matters of general importance I would like to say at this stage that I fear that there will be certain repercus­ sions from tbe proposed In the case of the cinema tax I fear that the exhibitors will resort to increasing the prices of admissior,, and as regards the proposed I fear that people who find joy in wear­ ing jewellery will prices for those articles.
tax on gold used in the Colony have to pay increased taxation.

replied, and we then in turn?

If 1:,very Member speaks on each subject of t11e Bill in detail and I, or the Attorney-General go mto Committee double or treble: our arguments on each particular if the hon.

Member is going to speak on the details of the Bill, as he began, he should wait until we go into Committee.

we should merely item.


So I really clo suggest, rather than on the principle Mr. DEBIDIN: I was really speaking I is that The point would suffer if the way, as I said before.

of the Bill; I was not What I was deal­ on the principle going into the details.

ing with last is not so much detail.


promise to deal with the whole matter in a general I am trying to make as regards the proposed tax 01, ,weep�takc-.s the approved charities buying power of the public is reduced as a result of the increase in the price of the sweepstake tickets.

Already we know that there is some dissatisfaction among certain charitable organizations which are clamouring , and any set­ back in this would certainly a large number of people.
It is very regret1.able that we have to resort to taxing ihe people in a manner which I feel could have been avoided to a great extent.

I will concede that cE:rtain items of expenc1iture purpose of the development ony, but I still feel that we should have asked the various Departments of Gov­ crnment to tighten their belts and en­ deavour to get more work out of their existing for recognition respect for the of the Col­ were necessary staffs.
affect As regards the proposed tax on charit­ which benefit I feel ihat the various from the will suffer Already I observe that it is of those sweepstakes sweepstakes able organizations prnceecls a set-back.

proposed stake tickets which would tend to reduce the demand for them.
There can be no doubt that since the Dcrnerara Turf Club h.;i.s been given a monopoly-· to increase the price of sweep­ from one to two shillings I to apply the As regards the proposal entertainment tax to country cinemas, feel that the principle is wrong because the people in the rural areas can hardly afford to go to the cinema at present, and th0 tax would certainly increase certainly On the whole I wish to record my regret that it is necessary ·of taxation to the extent proposed.
of the admission oppose the tax in Committee.

to increase on the people of tile Colony result in an fees.

I will the burden The COLONIAL TREASURER: May to say that that is exactly !just intervene what I have asked the Council not to do.

Woulrln't the hon.

Member allow the Council to acccpL ihc suggestion I made that each of these proposals be debated agree­ Dr. JAGAN: I arn in general ment with what the hon.

Member has just said.


My fear about these tax pro­ pos«ls is that they will be borne prim­ �1rily Most of the emphasis seems to be 011 indirect iax- by ihe sm::ill 111,111. , ___________ --- - 493 Tax (Ariidt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Bill, 1948.

494 tax;.ttiun on the financial Guiana Col. Spencer In his Memorandum uI Di-itish ation.

positiu11 states that the rate uf indirect is very high-in fact it is higher than in Barbados ancl just and Trinidad, as in the United Kingdom.
I observe that several of the propos�4 our Economic bocliccl allowed to I would like to quote again from Col. Spencer's Memorandum.

writes: in this Tax Bill.

If I may be have not been cm­ Adviser ls macle by as high He may be against omit to quote what them 1 think he should abo point out to the Council that the Economic definitely that the tax of 40 per cent.

on companies is one that cannot be con­ tinued for more than a period of two or the hon.

Member th1-cc' years.


Pel'lrnps will bc:1r that in mind in his remarks.

Adviser states .

I :·:..(C'S £400 a year gniup, aite1· ·'A,; far as Income T,1x is cnricernerl.

Guiana are roughly rhe hig}ie�� Coloni.�s up v.ii1ich by B2rba,'o,; anc\, between by the Jamaica rates.

in Briii,;h of the fnu•r m::tjor Cc,ribbean 1.0 the are exceer'ed £800 and £900 a �-;:ar, Above ti-lose level,; both Barbados and Jamaica rates British 1ncome rnx rates throughouc."

are substantially Guiana.


Tl'iniclaci hag 1he lowesr.

above they That shows that as far as the low our rates of income group 1s concerned mcome tax arc very high, but as regards the higher income groups they are lower than those of Jamaica and Barbados.

Mr. WIGHT: To a point of order.

I would like to find out whether the hon, Member is aware that we have since amended the thought the Colonial have pointed the rates of income tax since Col. Spencer's I would Treasurer report was submitted.
Income Tax Ordinance?

out 1.hat we have increased Dr. JAGAN: In speaking a moment certain I believe, for income tax on companies to 40 to was I was referring in respect to company tax­ income tax.

The has been increased to the excess tax has been removed.

At least ago I was not referring ation but to personal company t:lxation 40 per cent.

because, profits I feel that that is the justification increasing per cent.
What the tax on personal incomes of which the Economic Adviser recommended far as my information mendations mented.

He has suggested should be no increm;e lower income group, but that there should be a 3 per cent.

increase rates on incomes from $1,200 to $3,600, which he estimates of from $45,000 suggc,,ts £1,000 which he estimates revenue between $60,000 variations, goes those recom­ have not yet been imple­ on incomes above would yield and $80,0UU.

would yield a revenut: to $50,000.


He further has but as in the rates in the ;_m increase that there in the The PRESIDENT: Perhaps the Treas­ urer might explain to the hon.

Member in order to save time.

I think that report before the recent increase was written income tax in the Colony.

in Tht COLONIAL TREASURER: That out of elate at the present report is a little I cannot speak defin­ time, and although itely I think the personal rates have gone higher, and the company rate has gone up to 40 per cent.
which is higher at the moment than it is in any West Indian Colon:;.

My argument is that Government has on the chosen to impose further r.mall man while the big man who can afford to pay more at this time has been left out.

taxation Another recommendation by the in the Economic Adviser present writes: is an increase he rates.

On this subject royalty " ...

In fact, ihc present •ro:valty rat.-�s ar<' generally rnme cases viri.ually 'giving away' it;-; narural so lnw that the Colony is in resources."
to in­ Mr. WIGHT: I had intended terrupt the ho:u.

Member at a certain stage.

Being d member of the legal pro­ fession I would like, however, to point out to the hon.

Member that although lawyers things in their favour and quote certain I hate to be interrupted myseli.

When I look at the appended table I on timber ranges find that the royalty from 2.5 to 5 per cent.

of the market value.


The increase suggested Economic Adviser is 7 �'2 per cent., as regards slight variations low-cost are not easily accessible.

and areas which We find that the revenue from royalties in Trinidad annum from 1941 to 1945, as compared by the with areas per amounted to $135,000 ,195 Tetx (Arndt.)

3 MARCH, 1948.

Bill, 1948.

496 individuals with $110,000 muc.

:h greater in British Guiana which has iure:;t industries.
of spirit is the question has been pl'oposecl and wc con­ 'Vhich will ultimately w::ts in the duty on transports anrl from 1 per cent to 2 per cent Again I say that whereas other means could have been found as recommende'.1 by the Economic Advi�cr - that is to say, impose taxation on the rich v,.rho can 8.tancl it - we find that this form 01 t::txation fider it as taxation foll on the small man.
Another sourr,c of increased revenue recommended by the Economic Adviser shops and I think it should have been adopted.

Another recommendation an increase mortgages on all properties.

above $5,000 in value.

We know - and I have mentioned it in this Council already - that in Georgetown there is a serious housing situ8.tion and that it is being created by certain real estate dealers - bu:rers and sellers I consider Thef.e people are constantly selling in one form or another.
If this surplus capital is taxed by increasing the duty on transports as recom­ mended, that might have the effect of diverting projects.

ish Guiana - development and E,elling of propertv, profits ont of th<!

poor man.

If · the recommendation by the Ee:onomic Ad-· viser to increase the duty on transports and mortgages mented then I an1 subject to correction and would ask to be pai·doned.
ing to get all the facts - as you rightly said, Sir - in order to be able to put forwc1rcl a good case when I get up in this Council.

some of it .into development That is what we want in Brit­ - not buying and making with the profit:,.

they accumulate to be real estate racketeers.

has been already imple­ ancl mortgages buying and I am try­ whom increases ·wealthy through thci�· In this measure was also raised.

there is indirect taxa­ The rates of pnvate have been payin_g tax of 80 per cent.
while there was Another thing i::; we had an excess year and •,ve decided on certain which were ,,.ctor,tcd.

that in this .Col,rn:v profits none in Barbados.

income tax tl,ere <ire alsc, much lower than they are here, and in this Colony me:·­ cllants noocs.

The taxation of private rose, I think, from 5 per cent.

to 20 per cent.
to 20 per cent.

during the war years and i:ndirect taxation before the Council tion affectin_g creased taxation liquer brandy, and so on - and these things are not drunk by poor people but by the rich.

As regards the remarks made on the quel'tion of the cinema tax, I shovid like to point out that the cinema tax is paid by every person in this Colony who attends a cinema and not only by tr,e poor pecple.

The tax on hc-rse racing is also paid by rich people but the hon.
Member speaks about this tax as being paid by poor people.

If they are poor, then they have no right to buy s,Neepstake money to buy food.

on liqucr - whisky, and should use their people; tickets there is in­ Mr. DEBIDIN: I have never com­ I know that it 1s the rich people plained against the tax on sweepstake tickets.

who support horse racing.

What I said was that the tax en the Turf Club would affect the charities which are receiving some support from that source.
Mr. RAATGEVER: I did not hear the sweepstake In Trinidad cost 2/-each and the tax on each the non.

Mernber say that it would affect charities.

tickets ticket is 8 cents.

I am sorry Government did not put the tax in force 12 months ago because we have lost the revenue we would have got.

Mr. RAATGEVER: I cannot allow at the moment, but the income roEe from 12½ per cent.

the remarks of tne hon.

Member for Central Demerara to pass without some comment.
I am sorry I have not got the figures tax on companies in 1939 to 40 per cent.

last year.

The tax on private incomes also rose c.:onsicler­ ably during the war years.

The hon.

Member refers to Col. Spencer's recom­ mendations Spencer also suggested allowanceE would have offset the increase in income tax.

The matter was fully debated last but he does not say that Col. increased personal in his report.

Thes:e increases Dr. JAGAN: May I say - The PRESIDENT: I am sorry I can­ not allovv the hon.
Member to speak twice.

He can only speak on a point of explanation; we are not in Committee.

Dr. JAGAN: To a point of explana­ tion, Sir.

The hon.

Nominated said that indirect creased in this Colony taxation has been in­ Member The PRESIDENT: I am afraid the hon.

Member is making a speech.

If he · 501 Tax (Arndt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Bill, 1948.

502 � is that everything that comes in comes their money home to their wives to buy other things.

With regard to the view of the hon.


Member for Western Essequibo that we should not have an export tax on rum, I think the trouble with our in produced economics this Colony goes out too cheaply while everything high price.

I was somewhat amused to hear that there is no tax on rum going out of the Colony.

I understand is also being exported we are to find money to run the country we cannot allow our rum, bauxite, sugar, here to rice and everything else produced tax these go out so cheaply.
We ,'.T,ust things because that is the fundamental principle country.

money to rnn the free of duty, but if that Limacol of raising in at a Mr. DEBIDIN: May I reply briefly ?

that each A labourer would all his or nothing he does not know the of the poor people who live in as is customary.

amount of and i11 nine cases out of to the remarks made by the last speaker I am positive economics the rural areas.

earn say $3 a week, but he does not go home when he gets that money into this hands.
He goes to a rumshop, and must consume a certain rum with friends, ten you find him spending nearly money on rum and taking little home to his wife to run the heme.

If the rum is very good he would carry less money home to his wife.

I know of my own experience drink a half bottle at least, that we ·should tax rum very highly so that the poor man would spend less money on rum drinking his budget so very adversely.

save the poor man from destruction should.


tax rum-a little say so in spite of what other Members would think.

I feel that if we do not have an export tax on rum the shipment of large quantities to places abroad would affect the local trade.

Perhaps the hon.

Member for Western Essequibo does not know that this Colony can export very much more rum but it does not manu­ facture all it can.
Molasses go down the sink and escape on certain estates manufactured If we are to we more - and I man would and I suggest and much more rum could be if this was not being clone.

which is affecting is allowed to ineludes everything Colony in the form of spll'its it is nothing of the kind.

that goes out of this as rum but Mr. DEBIDIN: Some of it is really high wines but that, in a sense, is an overprocf kind of rum.

Mr. SEAFORD: When the hon.


]:las gone up people abroad proof spirits which about rum I. think he is it from ether places: As there was not a very in the world and the Member speak�.

really means high used in the United Kingd0m very largely for industrial and if we are going purp0ses to put an export tax on it we would not get a market for it because would purchase regards rum itself, large consumption reason why the com.umpti0n is because whisky is not very much pro­ curable at the present time.
That has improved the market for rum.

There is no export tax on rum in Jamaica or Trini­ dad and how are we going to compete with those places if we put an export tax on our rum ?

It would make the situa­ tion untenable.

It is also well known that an export tax is regarded as being a vicious tax anything after the money has been made.

That, I think, is a very well known and recog­ nised pnnc1ple The hon.
Member for Central of duty here on rum as compared with but I think it would b2 much other places, more interesting if he told us the price of mm in those places.

I think if he went rnto that he would find that the price is le�s in those places than tax and if we want to we should tax the profits by merchants has referred Demerara it is here.

to the rate answered.

has said, it would be a The COLONIAL TREASURER: I think also the hon.
Member for Central Demerara has had his question There is no export dt1ty on agricultural and as the hon.

Member who products, has just spoken very great mistake to pm a tax on spirits exported tioned Limai::01, industry, ket abroad.

Indian market it has to pa,v an import duty.

If we put an export duty on it.

then we might as well give up all hope of selling which was able to obtain a mar­ but unfortunately from this Colony.

He men­ it.

But that is by the way.

local ::.


very interesting in the West Mr. SEAFORD: Apparently there is on the a .i::reat part of the hon.

Member.

Apparently he de.al of misunderstanding The hon.

Member for Central Dem­ erara speaking bolh on the motion and .

, 503 Tax (A.mdt.)

3 MARCH, 1948.

Bill, 1948.


504 � from the estates I went out went out of my Treasurer the price of rum of an attack on in the remark rum becc.mes to challenge and to increase what was there being this particula�· The second item was a measure by which we Mr. LEE: I do not agree with the in a little I feel sun, can verify the fact, - there have to indulge to keep them healthy.

want to touch on it now.

I hope ho!1.


Members agree with me that it is entire­ ly wrong to characterize Budget and this Bill as a form of attack on the poor man.

It is nothing of the kind.

on this clause has attempted this 1948 Budget as being in some sort of way an attack on the po"or man.

That 'l.mazes me and scmewhat me, disappoints because as author o:I: it I was most careful to avoid any semblance the poor man.

Look at what it means.

The first item.


in my Budget Statement, which happens to be second in this Bill, hon.

the Colonial 1s the tax on Bauxite.

he made that increasing is the tax on film rentals.

by four cents per bottle is not an attack my way to explain on the poor man's budget.

I can tell you, attempted Sir, and I feel sure the hon.

Member for should try to secure something Western Essequibo distributor.
I further tnat during the period of planting way to say there may be an attempt to in a year - the rice­ are two such periods pass it on and I hope it will be resisted.

growers must have a little alcohol to The whole form of the tax was designed stimulate thern after being in the water so that it should not be passed or1 out the whole day.

Therefore should be on the capitalist-producer.

a necessity to the poor man and a tax of Then there is the tax on sweepstakes.
four cents per oottle is an attack on cer­ That is not a tax on the poor man.

It is tain people who true the poor man as well as the rich alcohol man indulges in buying sweepstakes that tax can be levied in a more dire�t tickets, but by no means that can be said form - income tax or otherwise.

It to be a tax on the poor man.

Then there should not have been placed of the rales of estate duty.
is the variation What I have risen to do is to appeal to That is designed to give relief on the you, Sir, to consider smalier tions which govern the Justices on the larger ones.

The next item is Licensing Board limit the number of rum­ royalty shops in the Colony it would encourage, Member expatiated as thev are doing, these rumshops to charge more so as to make profits.

enough.
enough.

A few weeks ago this Counc'.l the other hand if there is competition the passed a resolution Lands Regulations poor man would pay less for his rum.

I creased the royalties to set up am therefore a Committee forgotten which limits the number of rumshops in not increasing the Colon:v and go into the question timber.

That was exactly what we did competition only a few weeks ago.

Then there ar� Later in the year I may move an amend­ the Customs Duties.

ment to the Clubs Ordinance.


clubs are permitted drinks, it would be better for the rumshops and the poor man would be able to get his rum cheaper.

those two points.

At the present anyone desires he has to get sureties.

proprietors clubs and, ·therefore, healthy competition.

but I want to make this point.

It is quite true that rum but I do not in the increases, .

is included think it is fair to say it is a tax on the poor man.
All it does is to make an addition to a price increase of four cents per bottle.

I am quite aware that the price increase now charged is higher than that.

But this ·is hot on account of the duty.

I do deprecate any attempt to say that this Budget is in itself man.

I think too in answer to that point raised on the personal Income Tax rates - as to wh�, they were not touched.
- the Nominaterl It is not strictly As regards think the opinion would like to tax rum which goes out of the Colony for industrial arc certain amending the Crown in-­ on timber.

He has that and has charged us with the duty on the royalty on timber, the very thing the hon.

on as not being taxed The rumshop open these there is not that MC'mbrr in part nnswerccl it.

to the duty which is equivalent and if they are taxed as rumshops to revise that Regulation I ask you.
Sir, to consider which substantially to secure a Club licence and speculators to sell alcoholic ihe export duty 011 rum, I asking Government of Members is that they an attack on the poor between rumshops this: If the Regula­ brands o:C Brifo;h irrelevant, purposes.

Thn·c I am a little relevant, and clubs.

and I do n0t the charge Guiana rum on rum.

These of the time if On on of I of rice.
abroad, and if we of the matter for British those aspects inaustrial if we increase I do not see why there than those manufactured the cost of the production we can get a ready drink which drinks manufactured I feel, if Your Excel­ anrl the other one in the production the duty duty, but when we do get a market - and we have got a market m the United Kingdom and Canada - we should to a export tax on certain extent levy a sn1all rum, not on rum exported for industrial purposes.

505 Ta..1:: (Amdt.)
505 Ta..1:: (Amdt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

BiU, 1948.

506 which are rccogmsecl are trying to get a market abroad for our rum I do not think there should be an export tax on it.

I know as a fact that people from Canada and the United Kingdom 1,ave clamoured Guiana rum and we can with a small export tax gain a market in those coun­ with tries though it will be in competition the alcoholic in those countries.
lency considers you would find that the export of rum in bulk is for industrial use but for human consumption market for it as an alcoholic would be cheaper in those countries.

cannot be a small export tax on that.

I do not think hon.

Members mean nun purposes because exported for Guiana we would like as much British as purposes rum to be used for industrial possible the would benefit as the returns workers.
I am asking you, Sir, to con­ sider those three aspects at all you want at an:v time to consider on rum.

a further Mr. FERNANDES: I would just like to make twc, comments.

It is said that one is never too old to learn, and I have this evening learnt two things.

One is, that rum is a comfort, is that rum is necessary of rice.

I suppose on rum it would be another case of in­ creasing duty will cause the poor If this increased man to drink less rum, I would feel very happy.
I have no desire and it will always be against poor man, but I do not think that 1rn:reasmg the duty on rum to the tune of four· cents per bottlt or one-sixth of a cent per schnapp is going to affect I would be glad to feel that him seriously.

ten schnapps he instead of drinking drinks perhaps two or three and goes home sober.
If by increasing would decrease thereby decreas1:: ernment expects to get from it I would prefer that the deficit taxation would be very pleasea tion, knowing that in doing so it is caused by a decrease by the so-called just like to point out to tite hon.

Member that per­ haps he 1s unaware of the effect.


Is he unaware of the fact that Barbados does not charge an export tax on I um and that Barbados is now exporting Guiana for consumption British desire that Barbados should not be im­ posing an export tax on Barbados come to this Colony and compete with the locally manufactured rum?

It is being done on a large scale.

One mer­ is being done on a large scale.

One mer­ chant, I know, in Barbados Barbados to this Colony.

which I would have to bear.


I to bear that taxn­ his consumption the revenue which Gov­ Mr. LEE: I would like to challenge is made that it is a necessity rum in considerable Mr. WIGHT: I v,rould rum to ?

Do we the duty it and in the consumption when areas.

Therefore be met from direct m:v policy to tax the and does not visit is exporting quantities poor man.

of the matter if increase of rum.

rum to which he l.:hallenged, .. 1 Mr. ,LEE: My hon.
friend perhaps does not want to tell this Council how much is paid for Barbados rum and how much British Guiana rum can be sold in Barbados.

As far as I know, the pay­ ment here is higher than what we pay for the local rum, and similarly dad, you can sell Britich a higher price than the local rum.

I am only asking Your if we a1:e going to ti-y and get a market for our rnm let us keep the 1wicc clown.
I am not saymg we are to increase Excellency Guiana rum at in Trini­ the to consider, the remark of the hon.

Member for Central for the reason that Georgetown he lives in Georgetown the rice-growing the statement to the rice-growers, I am not saying anything I can prove to him that it is true.

I 'llm saying that if there is competition that are being made reduce the profits If by the present owners of rumshops.

be there is the necessity cents a bottle.

not understand cannot help him.

If the hon.


Member can­ I that logical cunpetition to increase the price by four it would that is not true.

argument, there would not Mr. FERNANDES: I would like to tell my hon.

fricnrl something new.

I did not say it is not th::it I hrive lenrnt ·r-� .

507 Tax (Amdt.)

3 MAllCH, 1948.

Bill, 1948.

508 true.

I did not dE:ny what he said.

I only said I have learnt two new things - one is that rum is being used in the of rice.

(laughter).
(laughter).

production to be policy of Government the price of gold.

I feel, Your this measure is very ill­ dangerous increasing Excellency, ad vised.

I would suggest this clause.

the deletion of Question put, and agreed to.

Mr. LEE: I have received a letter which Clause passed.

by 11 y at a moment 7 C, which dentists industry.

investiga­ of their state­ At the present to their figures and go1dsrniths to those supplied it and make further people in the Interior If that is true, and I cannot also.
I know the chief reason is to They sa:v the shops have already Mr. PANG: I desire to oppose the Clause 3-Tax on Goid.

then I think Govern­ not to carry but I am afraid it is going indus­ with the gold-digging a tax of 25 per cenium on un­ raw gold.

It is my considered The dealer in 100 ounces of raw gold at $40 He smelts that gold get between $35 and $38 and in turn bring that gold to and get $40 per ounce t to be true.
They of Government is of gold, the tax wonld prevent them from from certain has shown acc:ording which ar<.

; similar the hon.

Member for North-Western District, that contention passage of this new section sa:v that 1£ foe mtcntic,n proposes to obtain more production exported as proposed opinion that it the passage of this Bill wor:king for gold on the pork-knocking goes through it is gmng to kill the gold­ �·ystem.
digging reduced the price in the interior, and they the gold-diggers are not getung $35 per ounce in the per ounce for raw gold in the fields, interior.

the shopkeepers doubt the statement, Georgetown ment would be: well advised for it.

,That gold is sold in turn to through this measure tu-night, but to jewellers, withdraw it and make further prcfit tion as to the authenticity try to ship away all the gold to the hard ment.

If that is true then I think Gov­ dollar countries.
ernment would be well advised not to to interfere but carry through this measure to-night, t r y. I h a v e s om e f i g u r e s h e r e to withdraw investi­ showing what would be the position gation as to the bona tides of their state­ if the gold is not sold 1 o c a in the ment.

Since the announcement and has to be exported.

newspaoers gold buys claims have closed per ounce for this debate in Council.
and roughl:v Great Britain .975 qualit)r. method would be to induce more men to to roughly go into the interior for that 100 ounces of _gold he spends rather than imoose this tax.

The prices $4,180.

of foodstuffs are going up, and claim­ $35 per ounce _good qualit.v holders point out that iabourers are B.W.I.

currency.

Therefore more pay - $2 per da:v plus demanding $3,746.70 on and therefore Government every 100 ounces of _gold he ships.
It is obvious, in Georgetown to pay $40 per ounce for gold and the shop­ keeper will have pays to the gold-digger.

thing like $28 of $30 per ounce and I am afraid that will not do.

The geld-diggers cannot exist on that price.


Another point is this: If the _gold is retained local consumption, - I know a consider­ able number of people in this Colony invest their money in jewellery means of saving and this tax of roughlv $10 per ounce is fixed on gold, it woul,l mean an inflation of the ,wice of p;olcl by $5 per ounrc which woulrl affect tho�r · I think it is a very people's sent me a letter the tax.
They point out that on against ever�, ounce of gold they would have to pay $5 dut:-', $5 on every pair of brace1ets them outside Colony.

Instead the Colcny Government should subsidize the pork-kncckcrs to /!.O into the interior and pror1uce The COLONIAL TREASURER: Just along I would like that this in case there arc further the linC' of the l:ist spc:1kcr, to point out that he has implied gets 90 cunces of fine gold of ex1Jenses $180.
So $2 per ounce tctalling if they made and brought them into the of taxing gold used in have On the other hand goldsmiths '1.

to cut down the price he It will be some­ that the gold dealer cannot continue .them down pendin;:.

I think that it he gets loses $433.30 He gets in America for that gold many persons who hold gold wants more gold the best in search of gold me to protest therefore, requesting v.,rhich is $41.63 speeches Shipping savings.

rations.

more gold.

$4,000.


amount for as a save and that they would 517 Tax (Amdt.)

· LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

BiU, 1948.

518 to kill that trade indirectly, Member, to that fad and a large sum of to know about tourists amount of jewellery to this country, it is being sought here to increase in the country.

The hon·.

Nominated has 1·cfcrrcd in a position smiths in this Colony - in the making of jewellery.

Mr. Farnum, he is certainly it.


We are spending money to attract and a tremendous is but for made for sale not only to visitors people residing I think we are go111g because the price of gold, and it might not be able to compete with the ornamental jewellery at a low rate of duty.
I think it is most that we should think about the important people who would be affected Further, put aside, because I am strongly opinion that with the operation companies sufficient areas, and to the United Kingdom and other places, this tax.

I think we should have a policy to guide us into more careful I think this measure should be of the of these and other being brought into the Colony in the interior gold to export to hard currency without having to resort to we would have by this tax.

action.
action.

Dr. NICHOLSON: I cannot follow of a certain services in taxation.

the argument which has been advanced here to-night.

In Finance Committee Members voted for the appointment Fourth Judge, another Magistrate, and so on, and yet there increased that there should seems to be a feeling be no increase I wonder where the money must come from for all these things.

With regard to the ques­ tion of the export of gold, I agree with the views of the hon.
Nominated Member, Mr. Farnum, that the companies to export their her.� should be allowed should gold, and that the pork-knockers sell to local consumers.

think goldsmiths to work, and I agree that there should be how otherwise this increase would we get more money to run the Col­ ony.

would get sufficient in taxation, operating In that case I gold on certain I would say that the hardship in jewellery, a loss of $5 before he out of the shop because plus profit.

thi,; 25 per cent.
thi,; 25 per cent.

tax is passed we might tu what have a consumer strike similar happens in the United States, and in the next breath he says that if we put the it would be passed on to tax on jewellery the consumer because the price of jewel­ lery would go up.

I am not going to oppose this tax, because I do not think it would increase persons if passed.

1 agree with the when he said that the Colonial Treasurer would go up.
As re­ value of jewellery gards the question of saving by way of investment when one pays $10 for a piece of jewel­ lery he sustains takes the article he is buying gold plus labour, If, however, he puts that money in the Bank he would get thE: same amount back if he gets hard up, and I think the time has come when these people should save their money in a different in jewellery.

the argument against As regards export of jewellery islands, that i� a matter in which Gov­ ernment should act as it thinks best.
As regards I think everyone are just the people who should pay 25% more for their gold.

The kind of jewel­ work - does lery they buy - filagree and some of it is the not take much gold, finest work of the jewellers Guiana.

Again I say I cannot allow put forward to influence me of increased of permitting to the West Indian this measure the question taxation.
the the sale of jewellery way than investing would agree that they to tourists in British The CHAIRMAN: I will put the that the clause stands as in the if Members say question original motion, "aye" they are against therefore the amendment.

Queshon put, the Committee dividing and voting as follows: Smellie, For: Messrs. Mc Doom, Ken­ Thompson, dall, Fernandes, Farnum, Dr. Nicholson, Wight, the Colonial Treasurer, Colonial Seaford, the Attorney-General Secretary and the - 12. it.
I venture to say Mr. FERNANDES: At last I have who would been able to find one producer get more for his produce in this Colony than if he exported that the pork-knocker is the only person in the Colony who is .in that position day.

The hon.

Member for Central Demerara has stated that if the tax is passed it would be passed on to the con­ sumer, and that the nexi time it would go to the producer.

He also stated that if to­ Against: Jagan, Debidin, Roth and Lee - 6.

Messrs. Dr. Phang.
Messrs. Dr. Phang.

Peters, Did not vote: Mr. Raatgever and Dr. Singh - 2 Motion carried.

The CHAIRMAN: Qouncil will now adjourn until 8 p.m., to-m,.orrow.

•.

________ ,.__-��