Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698077843278.pdf (Guyana)
1207 Members LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Present 1208 l.EGISLA TIYE · COUNCIL The Hon.

R. B. Gajraj.

The Hon.

R. C. 'l'ello.

(Constituted (Con3titution)" under the Bq·itish (TemporO/ry 1.9$3) Order in Coun().il, Guiana Provisions) Deputy Speaker:- Mr. W. J. Raatgever, C.B.E.

THURSDAY, 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Nominated Officials :­ Mr. W. T. Lord, I.S.0.

Mr. J. I. Ramphal.

The Council Honour the Speaker, ford, 0.B.E., met at 2 p.m., His Sir Eustace Wool­ Q.C., in the Chair.
J'ltESENT His Honour the Speaker, Sir Gordo.1.1 Woolford, 0.B.K, Q.C.

·Eustace E�·Officio Meritbers:- N oniinated Unof ficials .

:­ Mr. W. A. Phang.

Mr. L. A. Luck.boo, Q.C.

Mr. W. A. Macnie, C.M.G., 0.B.E.

Mr. C. A. Carter.

Mr. E. F. Correia; Rev.

D. C. J. Bobb.

Mr .. H. Rahaman.

The Hon.

the Chief Secretary, Mr. F. D. Jakeway, 0.B.E.

(acting).

Miss Gertrude H. Collins.

The Hon.

the Attorney Genel'al, Mrs. Esther E. Dey.

Mr. F. W. Holder, Q.C.

Dr. H. A. Fraser.

The Hon.


the Financial Secretary, Mr. W. 0.

Fraser, 0.B.E.

· Lt. Col. E. J. Haywoocl, M.B.E., T.D.

Nominatea MemlJers Council ;-·.

The Hon.

Sir Frank MoDavid, of Exewtive C.M.G., ture, Forests, C.B.E.

(Member :for Agricul• Lands and Mines).

Mr. R. B. JailaL Clerk of the Legislature­ Mr.

I. Crum Ewing, Assistant Clerk of the Legislature­ Mr. E. ·v.

Viapree (acting).

The Hon.

P. A. Cummings (Mem­ ber for Labour, Health and Housing) Absent:- The Hon.

W. 0.
W. 0.

R. Kendall (Mem­ ber for Comtnun.ications and Works).

The Hon.

G. H. Smellie-on leave, Mr. T. Lee.

The Hon.

G. A. C. Farnum, O.B.E.

t, Social Develop­ (Member for Local Governmen Welfare and Co-operative ment).

l\fr.

Sugrim Singh-on leave.

· The Speaker read prayers.


-- l 1209 Eng_i1teering Sch'ships 25TH N OVEMBE~, 1954 B ills- F-irst Reading 1210 The Minutes of the meeting of the Council held on Fridiay, t he 19t h of November, 1954, as printed and cir cu lated, were taken as r ead and con firmed .

ANNOUNCEMENT LEAVE TO MR. SUGRIM SlNGH Mr. Speaker : I have to a nnounce that leave of absence has been granted to the hon.

Member, Mr. Sugrim Singh.

from the 24th to the 30th of November.


GOVERNMENT NOTICES MUNICIPAL COUNCILS (POSTPONE· MENT OF ELECTIONS ) B ILL Mr. Farnum (Member for Loco.I Government, Social Welfare a nd Co operative Development l gave notice of the introduction and first reading of a B ill int ituled: .

"An Ordinance to provide for the post ponement of elections the Town Councils of Georgetown and New Am for purposes connected sterdam and therewith.''

to ORDER OF' T HE DAY me.t).ts of Government-.

I;t: was int!
I;t: was int!

!nded to award two engineer~g schoi'ai:ships in 1%4, but · these scholarships could not be made available .

in for university places to be secured for candidates dur- ing that year.

.time · It is proposed.

sub ject to the availabil i,ty of funds and suitable candida'tes, to award six engineering scholarships (i.e.

for three three for Public Works and Drainage and 'Irrigation) during .

1955.
1955.

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS BILLS-FIRST READING The Financial Secretary: I beg io move the first reading of a Bill inti tuled: "A:!1 Ordinance to allow and confirm certa in additional expenditure incurred in thirty-first day of the year ended the Decem ber, 1953.''

S ir Frank McDavid seconded, Question put and agreed to.

Bill read' a f irst t ime.


S ir Frank McDavid: On behalf of the M e rnbP.r for Labour, Health and Housing: I beg to move the first read~ ing of a Bill intituled: "A ... -i Ordinance further to amend the ENGINEERING SCHOLARSHIPS factories Ordinance, 1947."

:Mr. Phang, ·on behalf of Mr. Lee.

a sked, and the Chief Secretary laid over teplies to t he following quesl,ions: Q.-Can the Govern ment state why Engineedng Sch olarships were no.t award ed for 1953 and 1954?
A.-'No Engineering Scholarships were offered 'by Government in 1953.

The last of six "Victory'' engineering scholarships provided in 1948 was award ed in 1952.

In 1'953 'priority was given""to awarding scholarshiPs for m eeting impor.t ~t staff r~quirements ii, oth~1• ,depart- l· l ~ Th.e Chief Secretary seconded .

.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill read a fi·rst ti~e.


Mr. Farnum (Member for Local Governrrient, Social Welfare and Co operative Development) : I beg to move the fii-st reading of a· Bill intituled: ·-.

to amend the· New Amsterdam TOWI\ Council , Otdinan.ce, i 949."

"An Or du:iance .

1211 Chea;p Radio LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Receiving Sets-1212 Mr. Gajraj seconded, .

Question put and agreed to.

Bill read a first time.


CHEA,P RADIO RECEIVING SETS The Financial Secretary: I beg to move: "That thfa Council in terms of Sec tion 9 of (Consolidation) the Customs Ordinance, 11952 (No.

69) confirms Order in Council No.

55 of 1954 which was made or.


the 3rd of October, 1954, and pu'.blished in the Gazette of the 6th of November, 1954-'' The object of the Order is to .imend the Customs Dut ies Ordin1ance in order to all-ow cheap radio receiving sets for use with battery power as well as dry cell 1batteries to be admitted into the Colony duty free under the British Empire Preferential Tariff and under the General Tariff at 16 per cent.
The reason for that is to enable poor people to obitain cheap radi:o sets in the interest of broadcasting, and in order to permit a greater number of people to be reached in the dissemina tion of accurate information and adult education.

I think it is a policy wh.ich .

this Council will endorse by approving of the Order.

Mr. Gajraj inexpensive ,approbation of citizens in .
I beg to s econd the motion, and I would like tb say that the policy of Government in endeavour radi:o re .ing to provide ceivern for all the people in the coun try areas is one which I feel sure will r eceive t he general.
Since broadcasting came to British Guiana it has always been noped that people fa the r ural areas wou ld have an opportunity to enjoy the musical programmes as well as to bene, fit from the news and views which come over the air , and Jn entering into the cont_ra,ct with the :British Guiana ~ insisted Broadcasting Co. a few years ago Gov ernment that a, number of community radio receivers should · be installed by the Company as part of its obligations under t he contrac,t.
Those community receiving sets have at last been •installed, but it ha:, been found that our people are not quite willing to go in large numbers to the commun ity halls ,in order to benefit from those sets.

Therefore Government has taken the additional step of endeavouring to make radio receivers available at the lowest price possible in order that people in the country areas may be able to instal them in their nomes.

The type of radio receiver Government has in mind is that used for medium wave It is.
not too expensJve b roadcasting.

a receiver and would fit into the pol,icy of the Broadcasting Company to instal a new medium wave transmitter.

As soon as the equipment is in full opera tion t hese cheap radio receiving sets t he m edium wave which operate on band will be of very g-re.at serV:ice to I have verv the Colony in general.

great pleasure in seconding the motion·.

Motion put and carried · unani• mously_ SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES AUGUST-SEPTEMBER, 1954 .
The Financial Secretary: I beg to move : "That.

this Council ·appro•ves of trie Supplementary Estima!tes for August and September,.

1954. which have been laid on the talble."

form of The provision has been prepared in the usual Sche the dules .which have been examined by Finance Committee.

The Schedule for Augus~ amounts to $168,520.19 while that fot Septeuiber shows i total of $907,670.53.

As far as I know there i;; · nothing controver~ial in the Sche· 1 j \Wff,4\!W-'t."
141,_«tf, 94 1213 Social 25TH KOVEMBER, 195 4 Security 1214 [The Fiila.ncial SecretaryJ dules and l Cuuncil will approve of them.

t herefore hope _that the Sir Frank McDaYid scc.:nnded.

Motion 1pm a ncl c.iHied unani mously.

SUP l'LSJ\i El'<TARY 0EVl':I,Hf ~1 £,'\T E:;T::VfATf.S-AUC.UST - STs l' H , M Hl•;11 , lfl:',4 The Financia I Secreta ry : heg IP move : "The.t -th is Council ap,proves of the Supplementary Development Eslinunes for Augu s t and Sep:tember.
1954. which have b een laid on th e table."

· The Estimatec; on this occa;;ion involve rat her smhll amounts.

The one for Augus t amount~ to $278.88 while that for September is for $77.!-"\5-1.2,.

The Schedules for this prov-i:'iion hHve also been examined and ~~pproved b?

Finance Committee.

ancl the expendit ure \\'ill hr appr11,•~rl iJ~· thi, Council.

l hope Sir Frank McDayjcl i-Pcon<l ecl.

· Motion pd, and carried 1rnan imously.

SOCIAL SECURITY ACCEPTANCE OF P ROF.


R!C:HARn;:;oN'S REPORT Mr. "Farnum (Member for Local Government, Soc:al Welfar e and Co to operative Development) : move the following motion: .

I beg contained Be it resolved this honourable that Council accepts in principle the recom mencla.tion s P l'ofe.<so,· Richardson 's R eport on Social Security in British Guiana and - approves of the proposals of the Governor in Council on those in pai·agr aJ?h 34 oI S ession al Paper No.
10 of 1954. recommendations as set out in Oopies of - Professor Richardsoi1's Repo1,t have been ci.rculated and in the ,?

"_ hands of hon.

Members many days now, ~nd I daresay hon.

Members have r ead it and digested it.

Therefore I do not t hink t h ere is an y need for me to go over the Report.

Before deal ing with the recommenclat.ions which have been accepted by the Executive Council a~.

Se1-;sional Paper, No.

10 s hown of 1%-1.


r wonkl like to give a br ief ou·s line of this p1•oposal in in Social ·welfare, anu (-rea:led rate;; with your permifision, Sir, I will read extracts from Professor Richardson's Report.

Under '·the heading " Origin and Purpose of Inquiry" Professor Richa rd son wr ites:· to introduce in "On 17th J anua ry.

1952. th e L egisla tive Council of Briti5h Guiana- after dis cussinE!
;i motion oroposing t he a ppoint m~nt o f a Select Committee to consider the sett ing up of a contributol'y oension scheme for th e workers of British Gui ana and to make recommendations.

de cirl~d 1o ;;sk the Government to obtain /:he se r vices of an exper t to exa mine th t ques tion.

in '·The Government.

rhC' C o1on ia1 Office- Autumn of 19:\3.


+o visit B1·itish Gui<1na with the term, of reference: - ::iiireemenl with th e invite ;,in exnert to followin,t decided, in an this purpose the object of "To advise th e Government o[ British Guia11a on possible measures of Social security.

For ex p lorator y investigation will he un der l'lssessin'!

taken with whether.
taken with whether.

havine; ree;ard to the fin ancial and economic position of territory and the other obligations t o be fa ced :J:v the Government in the immediate fut ure.

js in a position to sup British Guiana port any measure nf social security and ,f sn, to what ex,t<mt.

I t i~ not expectc;rl that detailed :;chemes will be prepared, bu·t recommendations on any p racticable sch emes or developments w ill be made lines along which it will indicating the be a dvantageous to, proceed."
the _ And urnler th e heading " I ntrocl ut;- 1 ion he wr ites: "T11e essential social .

security is to ensw·e 'freedom from want' by collective 0 1' comnrnnity provision for purpose of i215 Social LEGISLATIVE C OUNCI::.

Security 12i 6 those people, w ho, temporarily or pe1· manently because of sickness, accident.,, invahdity, o ld age.

death of the bread winner, 311d other adversities.

are witho11'.

s ufficien t resources.


With the best will in the world it is often impossible for in d ividuals to meet s uch crises and hard ships un aided.

In va1·ious ways there fore Provision is made for those in ,1e~d by the more .fortunate members of the community.

Social a common obligation to assist those in need.

in Thus !hosp in good healr,h contribute one fonn or another to those suffering privation becau se of sickness: the aged poor are in the main supported by peo :Jle of working age.''
security implies Professor Richards.on gave a very comprehensive report.

He has divided it into several categories.

an-d in the Sessional P aper on the Report at page 2 wi ll be seen the classification- "(a) An incrE.-ase ,·ates ot in Public A!<listance and Old Age P ensions.

the (b) A less stringent Means Test.

(c) A ch ange in nomenclature from the terms Poor Relief, etc, (d) A Contributory Provident Fund for old age and invalidi.ty.

(e) Sickness Insurance.

(,f) Funeral Expenses.

(g) Medical Care.


including hosp.ital accommodation.

(h) House Ownership.

(i) Provision of milk, biscuits and cod liver oil for school children.

(j) Workmen 's Compensation.

(k) Unemplo·ymen t and Under-em ployment."

[At tMs star,e His Hmi.

tln Speaker infonne,l Council that ,he pro- 17osed to suspend the sitting for a, short pmiod 'in order tn receive His Exoe/.

iency the Go,ve-rn01· Sfr Alfred Savag;, .

K.C.ilf.G.
K.C.ilf.G.

who was coming th~ Co'U'licil C:l1a1n,be,1· to have some docu the ,1,1tnf.<lr1; Colonial office photogra17her.

photog1·atph:?

taken by to '/'1, rJ i;il/,'11y 11'a:; ~11i;pended at 2.25 // .

/)/.

COUNCIL RESUMES At 2 .40 p.m. Council resumed and proceeded with the motion under dis l:u:s;:; ion.
Mr. Farnum (contin uing) : I will now tead the decis ion of the Governor in Council in connection with this Re port to be found at page 7 of the Ses:;iona.l Paper: "Pr.ofessor Richardson·s recommenda tions have been accepted in principle by th,:; Governor in Council and it has been decided to recommend to the Legislative Council :the approval of the following- (a) (1) Th at the rates of Public As sistance and Old Age Pensions should be increased two s tages as follows- Pu 1,1 ic As~istance: in From 1st July, 1954 - Georgetown .$-l.00 Minimum, $7.50 MaX'imum; Other DiE,lricts-S::S.00 Minimum.
$5•.50 Maximum.

From 1st July .

1!

!57 - Georgetown - $5.00 Minimum.

$10.00 Maximum; Other Districts-$4-0-0 Minimum, $8.00 Maximum, fe;.

;;-;or rate,;.

would Tt is interesting to hear what Pro-.

Richardso n says about these lf you would allow me, Sir, I quote from th e r eport:- to the present cost of living and standards I "These rates are unduly low if related It is therefore recommended of wages.
that the rates for G eorgetown should be doubled an<l thosP for other districts be increased to more than double th e present r;ites.·• We come now to O ld Age Pensions.

Professo r R ichardson r ecommends that the 1·at!c->< "'honlc.1 be $7.50 for Geor ge- J 1217 Sociai 25TH NOVEMBER, l:954 SecitrUy 121~ [Mr. Farnum] town and $5.50 for other Districts from the 1st July, 1954, and $10.00 for Georgetown and $8.00 for other Dis• tricts from 1st July, 1957.
I would like to point out at this stage that the suggestion was made that the rates for New Amsterdam should be the same as t hose for Georgetown.

Government is considering that sugges t ion and is trying to get the cost of living in New Amsterdam compared w ith that of Georgetown to find out whether is a worthy one or not.

the Stl'ggestion Mr. Ramphal : Mr. Speaker, will you ask the hon.

Member to speak ,a little louder?

We cannot hear hi m well from here.


Mr. Farnum: The position in re gard to Public Assistance is that it will cost the Colony, from the 1st of July to the 31st of December, 1954, $50,000 and in regard to Old Age P ensions $150,000.

The next item is the " Means Test".

He sayfl the "means test" is $10.00 per month for the whole Colony.

This was the result of an amendment in 1953 from t he figures of $4.50 a month for Georgetown and $3.00 a month for other districts.
The decision of the Governor in Council on that matter is that the " means test" applied to ap 'plicants for public assistance should be $12.00 a month for Georgetown and $10.00 a month fdr other districts.

It has b een further recommended that for women who are working but whose wages are less than $12.00 a month in GeorgetoW111, and t han $10.00 a r,onth in other districts a grant should pe made in respect of each dependent child including the first, which is at \>r esent excluded.
less 1 should be changed Professor Richardson recommends a change i-n cer tain terms and this has been accepted by the Governor iin Coun cil.

"poor relief" and "Poor Law Com missioners'' to "public assistance" a nd "Social As sistance Board," respectively.

In future the term " person in receipt of public assi,stance" will be used instead of " pauper", and the name of t he Alms House will be changed to "The Palms".
1lt has been recommended that a Providen t Fund a dministered by a Board a;ppointed by the Governor in Council should be established to which employers and workpeople would be re quired to make equal weekly contribu tions.

The main purpose of thi's fund w-0uld be t o accumulate amounts which .

would be used to buy annuities for life for the wor~eople at 65 years ·but they would be given the option of claiming benefits at 60 years of age.
In the event of a worker dying before reach ing retirement age provision would be made for his widow .a'nd dependent children.

Professo1:1 Richardson recom• mends, and the Governor-in-Council has accepted, t hat workers earning be tween $12.00 and $25.00 a week should make weekly contributions - males, 50 cents and 50 cents by their employers, and :l;emales, 30 cent s and 30 cents by their employers.
Contributions will not be paid for any week in which the worker had been employed for les·s than three days.

· We now come In surance.

The Governor in Council has decided that this should be deferred for further considerat ion.

to Sickness item The next is Funeral Ex penses.

The Governor-in-Council has decided that this should not be intro duced now but should be borne in mind for action at some future date.

1219 Social U:GI&.ATIVE CbuNmL Security, 12~0 The Governor-in-Council has .
a lso· decided i~ regard to medical ·care, that with the exception of the propos·a.Js for the building of Cottage Hospitals which are already being.

implemented in the Development Plan, consideration of the recommendat'ions on the provision of more adequate medical care including hospital accommodation should be de forred until the ·report c,f the Medical Services Enquiry Committee had been received.

towa rds liver oil.

Parents who It was also decided by the Gov ernor-in-C-Ouncil that : .
the provisio;p of funds by the Legislative Council had gone a long way towards meeting ·Pro fessor Richardson's recomme;1dati on~ regar'ding House Ownership,;· the exist ing scheme whereby necessitous school children in certain areas are given free meals should be superseded as s·oon as the fiiiances of the Colony permit, ,by one whereby alt' school children would be provided with milk, biscuits and cod could t he cost should contribute be given _ an opportunity so; to do the Wo~:kmen's Compensa uud.er tion Ordinance of 1952 which is hoped will shortly come i·nto operation the magistrates already have suffi cient that discretion.ary power periodical payments instead of lump sums ·be paid in all -cases where death or serious accident_ has resulted anc\ therefore no revis ion of the law was necessary.
And finally, that the ac Ceptan~e of the recommendation that a c.omprehensi:ve en4_ufry be undertaken to secuie· information on the incidence of unemployment and under-employ ment in Briiti~h Guiana.
S teps have al ready been taken through the Secretar_v of State -'to secure the services _of a statistician frc,m t he International Lab our Or~anisation to undertake the neces iary survey of un-employment and un- to direct it der-employ-mcnt and to advise as to the possible revis ion of the cost of living index.

l 110w fom1ally move the motion.

Mr. Gajraj: l desire to se~ond the motion.

I t hink it will be readily seen that the mot.ion can be divided into two parts.
The first part asks this hortour able Council to accept in principle the recommendations contained jn Profes sor Richardson's report ·on Social Secur iLy in B,ritish Guiana.

The repost has been laid iand hon.

Members have had an opportunity to read it.

The second part of the motion g~ves in brief t he proposals of the Governor-in-Council, which the hon.

·A1.ember for Local Gov ernment and Social Welfare has spoken so well on.
1 do not Lhink it is necessary for me t u spend a Jong time on my feet be cause I am sure t hat all hon.

Members have been remarkably struck by the ver_y sincere manner iin which Pr.ofessor .

R.icharcii::on set about his task.

We had an oppo!·t unity of listening to him in Finance Committee and I believe the lVLin utc.

; of that body will sh-ow that we all expressi!d the belief t hat the g round he covered was that needed fol.'

social security in t his cou ntry.


should One other th~ng that struck me nnd I b elieve I speak on behaJf of m y colleagues - is that while Professor recommended Richardson could have that Government contribut e moi·e t0wards social security he never- · thelcss took into account our present economic position and .

!refrained ,from includiEg in his r ecommendations items whi ch might emba rrass the Government in recommenda tions.
l a m 'remi,nded at this stage of the 'sa~•ing ·'The poor a1·e always with us·", and that it is very necessa17 for us, as individuals and as a Governmem, implemen ting those ~ I I 1221 Social 25TH NOV.EMBER~ 195~ Security 1222 [Ivlr.

GajrajJ to lcok after them.

I do not think 1 could do better than read what Profes sor Richardson.
himself has written in the introduction t~ his Report, whe1·e he says: "The essential •purpose of social secur is to ensure 'freedom from want' by i.t(y collective or community prorvision £pr ,those people who, temporarily or perman ently, because of sickness, accidents, in validity.

old age, death of the breadwin ner, and other adversities, are wi,thou-t. sufficient resources."
He goes on to say : "With the best will in the world ~ is often impossible for inclivid'llals to meEt In such crises and hardships unaided.

various ways, therefore, provision is made for 1hose .in, need •by the more fortunate members of the community.

Social St!cur ity implies a common obligation to assil>c thosoo in need."
If we app1·eciate, as Government has in the past appreciated, and as in diviciuals have appreciated by the way in which they have banded themselves into social and charitable organisations, that it is the duty of the community those of us who are well and strong and are able to assist-to provide for others who are either ill or have lost the breadwinner of their familY., or through old age or invalidity are un~ able to help themselves-if we accept that as a principle then definitely we have to see to it that we give effect to the requirements under that principle by seeing that the· poor people in those unfortunate categories are taken care of.
I do not h,a,ve to- detail the various points which have been dealt with by Professor Richardson because he has covered them all, and I am sure hon.

Members will unhesitatingly ag1·ee to the adoption of his Report in principle.

I come now to the second part of the motion which seeks the approval of this Council of the proposals 0£ the Governor-in-Council f.or the implement- ~~~-~ ation of some of the recommendations .made by Professor Richardson.
If we pass t his motion, a1:1 I am sure we will, we will be faced with another motion by the hon.

Member seeking the ap proval of this Council of an inc,rease of the amounts payable under the Old Age Pension Scheme.

1-t has been urged in the Legislative Council in the past, and we have had pressure from organ.

isations and individuals outside, to the effect that the amounts payable by Gov ernment as old age pension were much too low.

Nevertheless we have to face the reality .


that af that time the coun try could not afford more.

difficulties Whilst in the tangiJble manner the ,past Governmen!

to show would have been willing its a.ppre• in a under ciation of which poor · people lived, greater r'ii lief coultl not have ·been afforded thel}l then.
Now that we are trying to develop this country, to increase its rnvenue earning ~apacity, surely we should at the same time pay some at,tention to the poor, the infirm, the sick and the aged·.

l<"or that reason it is proposed to increase the amounts now payable as old .,ge pensions, and as the hon.

mover has pointed out, the increase will be put into effect in two stages.

'l'he hon.
'l'he hon.

mover has spoken about the means test, and I w:ish to endorse what Professor Richardson has stated, which has been act,epted, that up to the present the means test in this Colony has been very rigidly applied.

When I was Mayor I was a .

member of the Appeal Board which dealt with appeals from persons who applied for s-0eial assistance and old age pensions.
I was struck at that time (and I believe the position remains the same) by the fact that in investigating those cases every effort was made by the investigators to see how many obstacles could be placed in the way of granting those applica tiono for a~sistance..

I have seen cases i228 Sa.cial LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Se<n1-rity _1224 in which small amounts were credited to the income of those persons in order to put them over the border line and prevent them from being granted old age pension.
I d-0 not think that should be the attitude of mind in dealing with the aged, the poor and infirm, and I am therefore glad to see t hat that pro cedure has to some extent been con demned by Professor Richardson, and that it is proposed increase the amount with reference to the means test so that poor people would haive a chance tc- benefit in larger numbers than they do at present: to The proposal to establish a Con tributory Provident Fund for old age invalidity is one which I hope and will be taken full advantage of by all Professor Richardson's eII11Ployers.
:Aroposal is that all firms employing persons who earn up to $25 per week should be made to contri-bute to this I do hope that not only those f:und.

who employ 20 or more persons but all employers will join.

the Provident Fund when it is instituted by Govern ment, so as to contribute their fair share towards helping their employees after they have passed the age of usefulness to them.
It is a charge upon their humanity, an obligation they owe to their employees, and I hope they will not find or look for any means whereby they could shirk their obli gations under the proposed Contributory Provident Fund.

For my part I am sorry that Government has not seen fit to intro duce at th:is stage the suggested Sickness Insurance Scheme, the cost of which is certainly not going to be very high.
daresay Government feels that since a Contributory Provi dent Fund is a new scheme on which we ate embarking, ft is better to gain experience with one scheme before embarking on the other, but it is my I ~ope that a Sickness- Insurance Scheme will not be lost sight of, and that as the Contributory Provident soon as Fund is working well Gove~nment will seek the approval of this Legislature to Insurance Scheme.
I do not think it is necessary for me to speak longer on the other points which have been particularly well covered by the hon.

mover.

a Sickness inti;oduce it.

(Member I me-rely wish Mr. Cummings for Labour, Health and Housing): I rise to congratulate my hon.

colleague on the able manner in which he has moved his motion, and the hon.

Mr. Gajru i for the thorough manner in which h e has sec,onded to identify myself with the motion and to invite the attention of hon.
Members to certain aspects of it which fall within the ambit of my portfolio.

· I refer to Part VIII on page 11 of the Report, in wh'ich Professor Richardson deals at length with House Ownership.

Hon.

Members are.

already aware of the proposals that have been put forward by Government and accepted by this Council, which are well on their way towards full implementation.

On the question of hospitals and free medical treatment hon.
Members w:ill obsen1~ the decision of Government is: • thait "That with the exception of ;the pro posals for the building of Cottage Hos pitals which were already being imple mented under the Development Plan, con sideration of the recommendations regard ing ;the provision of more adequate med ical care, including hospita~ accommoda tion, should •be deferred until the Report of the !Medical Ser,viccs Enquiry Com mittee had m:en received.''
That Report has been received and has been circulated to Members of the that Executive witliin a month that Report along with the recommendations of the Direc- ·Council.

We hope • ,J,f.

~4,.

, 25'rH NoVEMBi!JR, · 1954 .

security, 122~ -.


1225 , So~ial [Mr_• Cummings] t vr of Medical .Services and other ad viser.s, will ue before the Exehitive Cuunci.l, a1id that very shortly we wi,IJ be able to come to this C'Ouncil 'to seek a ppr oval for the implementation of t hose proposals which Government decides to adopt.

As far as the Cottage Hospitals are concerned t h e erection of one at W akenaam ha.s already been started.
I vis ited the site myself and saw t he pillars going up, while a site at Port-· Mourant whi.ch has been causing some conc,ern in Finance Committee, has been .selected.

It is.

located at the present headquarters of t h e G.M.O.

at Port Mourant.

The decision was taken after consideration of the un animous advice of Dr. Clark, the Director of Medical Services, t h e Director of Public Works, and ·t.he District Commissioner of Berbice who is the Chairman of the· Siting .Com- .

I am informed by 't he hon.


mittee.

Member for Comm unications •and Works (Mr. Kendall ) that the wotk has been put out to tender,, a nd that materials .

have actually been purch ased.

I do not t h ey .have started actual con t hink struction.
On the question of Workmen's Compensation we have considered the Ordinance and found that ·ther e is al ready pr ovision for the proposals put forward by Professor Richardson, and we hope to request the co-operation of the Magistrates t he making of in they are already em orders .

which powered to make.

They have a dis cretionary power hut t h ey have not exercised it to the extent we would wish them to do.
With regar d to th e question of un employment and under-employment I gave a n assu r an :!e on the first occasion on which .

I spoke in this Council, that I would.

recommend· to GoVcrnment the appointment of a ca,pable statistician .

to 'from the International Labour Office.

rl'hat recommendation was adopted and forwarded to the Secretary of State who has made representation the: Internation al · Labour Office, , and we• to have such an hope very sh ortl y I "con.sider it very im-· officer here.
portant, accurate bec-ause w ithout figu r es as r egards· unemployment and under-employment we a re gropin·g iri I.he da.rk and cannot plan properly until information we have fu ll .•statist ical along those lines.

I t hink t ha t t his Colony is fol'tu na.te to have had a ~nan of the calibre I do not of Profess or Richardson.

think that this Government CI have heard no one say so) can make entire claim for what h as transp ired in this direct i on.
Past Government;;; h ave been conscious or' the need for a scheme for social security, and I know that motions were moved before Professor Richard son actually came he1'e.

We hope t o see the implementation of his proposals in a very short t ime, and I trust that hon.

Members will support t h is step in the right directio,n.

· Mr. Macnie: F:irst of a]J I •wou!d like to substantiate what t h e hon.

Mem'.

ber for Labour, H ealt h and ·· Hous ing has said, by reminding hon.
Members t ha t this matter was first discussed in t.he last Legislative Cou ncil in January, I have not consulted Hansard 1952. but I think my 1·ecollection is correct, that on that ,occasion there were before that Council motions by Dr. N icholson and l\lir.

Debidin on t he same subject I had t he privilege of soci-al security.

of taking part in the debate a nd I think I am also c-orl'ect in saying that I sug gested t ha t the Council s hould "hasten slowly" in dealing.
w ith the motion be t h en, and that it sh ould be fore a mended to req uest the Government to the services of an expert.

··1 secure made t hat suggestion and i t was my it 1227 S ocial LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Security.

1228 friend on my left (Mr. Phang) who moved an amendment to the effect that the advice of an expert should be ob tained.

As a result of tha.t we now have before us, after more than two this excellent Report by Pro years, fessor Richardson.
I would like to pay a tribute to its excellence, particularly in its its straightforwardness and simple language.

We have been fortu nate to have two Reports which are straight to the point and written in simple language which a.nyone can understand.
into a if am strongly in favour of accep, tance in pdnci-ple of the recommenda tions in Professor Richardson's Report, and I propose to vote in favour of the motion, but I feel that there is some little justifi,cation for going detail, because one does not kno,w when an opportunity will be afforded us a.gain; it may never be afforded •again to some of us.

Therefore I propose· to I entfrely agree take my opportunity.

with the hon.

Mr. Gajraj that all employers will join th.·z Contributory Pension Fund.
because I do submit that it -is sound enough.

I feel that i.t would be very unfortunate if employers of less than 20 persons were left out of the com pulsory aspect of the Pension Scheme, because if they are l'eft out an enormous proportion of the population of our country would be left out.
ex1pressed b~r the hope and employees, I feel, therefore, that the mini lowe1· tha11 mum s hould be mueh support of 20 in that l submit that it is the small employer who is usually less •able to look after his workers or employees than the large1· employees.

It is usually the small employer who is faced with the difficulty of making any provision wiiatever for the people who work for him and, therefore.

I feel there is strong reason for the inclusion of employers with less than 20 persons.
The fact of the matter is, Sir, there are quite a lot of persons who work for small em ployers and are faced very often with two alternatives-either to stay with their employers with very little prospect of increasing their earnings, what may be termed a dead end low wage, or go to another employer in the hope of do ing better.

Therefore I feel that the 20 or more requirement should be care lower.
It fully examined and made would not, so far as I can see, increase the cost of the administration whatever ,and it would provide for a 1ot of peop'1e who are otherwise going to be left out and who are entitled 1and are in fact t he very ones that should be included.

rega1.·ds I have another point.

It may well be that there can be no answer to this question today, but I w,ant to get the question on record.
As the recommendation by Professor R ichard son which has been accepted by Gov ernment in regards to a Contributory Provident Fund for pension, is that contribution to be made by the employei· and the worker in respect of people who earn up to $25.00 per week?
My view is, there are a lot of people who from time time eam more than $25.00 per week and do not regularly earn more than $,25.00 a week, but who at the same time do not earn enough to enable them to make pro,vision for themselves for their own · benefit.

I feel that should receive very careful to be attention when the scheme is worked out before it is actually put into opemtion.
to Again, what is going to happen in the case of a man whose em ployment is known as job rate or hour rate, who earns $15.00 one week and t he next week his earnings may be $30.00, and the folJowing week it goes clown to $25.00, or a case where for a few weeks of the year a man earns well over $25.00 a week and for 1229 Social ~5Hr, NOVEMBER, 1954 ;:;ecurity 12;:io I llfr, :Nfacnie-} lhai: amo1mt ,,·eeks Lhe figure?
im suggest that l portant point fo1· c.:onsicleratien by Gov unment a11d particularly by the hon.

Member who b in charge of t h e matte1·.

is Lelnw is an There al'e Qthei.

: hon.

Members who ,\•oultl s.uppon me on that point of ch'" wages' going up and down $25.00 a wee:k in respect of ,people like tractor-opera tors who work seasonally in lthe rice in dustry.
At che planting and rea,ping t im e. they make good earnings whe11 $25.00 :i week to some of them is small money, but at other times of the year when thel'e is no planting or reaping their earn ings a l'e low.

The same thing applies to dr edge operators and various othel' types or J hope I catego ries o,f workin g pea.pie.

have made my point quite .clearly as far as that goes.

My hon.

Friend on my lef, (Mr. Pha11g) Ja,ug·hs.

He thinks T have no_t made them <:!ear.


in That repeated I now turn to another aspect of the S'cheme.

Provident Fund or Pension There is provision for the exemption of Companies who operrute private pension schemes, using t he words of ithe Repon: on page 8 -paragraph 9-, "or provident sc hemes for their staffs, the benefits of which are at least as favourable to th,, workpeople as those of the Government scheme."'
the is Sessional Paper, at p:i.rag·ra:ph 17 on page 4, in th_e decisions of the Governor in Counc-il.

The pointwhich I would like the hon.

Mover r,f the motion to consider is this: We have, let us sa:v, a private employer runni,ng a scheme for his work people alone.
and it is as good OI' even better than t he Government's, but his scheme is a voluntary scheme and not compulsory; some of that private em pioyer's workpeople joi,n that volunfa r:r scheme in order to get the benefifa it offers, ;but the others do not.

Would t h•' workpeople of that priva,te employer or company ibe exempted from the Govern m ent Scheme?

Are the doors of t h e Government Scheme closed to t hem, or can they join ir instead of their em ployer's private and better scheme?
That is part of t.he question.

The other part of the question is put another way-is it possible for some ,rorkers working for a pl'iv::ite employe~· tn belong to t he Government Scheme and the others to th::it of their employer·!

A8 I understand the Governmen~ i.t, Scheme is a costl.v scheme.

It is not every employel' who can conduct his affairs a:-1 tht: the State c:in do, making b,v law aci.ual provisions of the scheme.

I now turn to ,mother ,poin-t which, I think, is inte1·esting.
At -parngraph 10 on page 8 of' the Report Professor r: ichardson says ·'Employers who nre not covered com pulsorily iby the Provident Fund scheme ,shou ld have the :-ight to join voluntarily.

Similarly any self-employed person should have the right to join voluntarily on pay ment of an amount equal to the join con t1·.ibution of an employer and worker.''

With the sec:ond p::i 1-t of that state menit: I am in full agreement and I have no ttuestio n on that.
The question I hav~ te ask is, are the workers bound to joi11 l he Government Scheme?

The Repol't cloe1, not say :<o.

and I hope t he answe!· wou ld be ·'Yes."

I would ask l:rnn.

Mem bers of Council an~ you.

Sir, to ,permit me to l'eturn to the question of the work man who finds himself getting more than $25.00 a week, which is the ceiling fol' the scheme.

Most ·of us when we start to wol'k do so as a sm,1 ll boy, but all of us.

it does not matter \\"ho we are, aspire t1, im:pl'ove our position.
There are a lot cf people, I submit everyone, even t hough rhey start at $10.00 a week hope in· the cou l'se of yeri rs tc- ge,t more and mo1:e b:--· the fact of their industry and application tr, their particular job, who have reached :ind passed t h€ ceiling- of $25.00.

Are they shut out from the scheme to which the:v r;;i ve contributed for a num'ber of years?

If they ai·e not shut out, what woulrl happen to their contributions?
I may say that I have not put for ward these questions with any intention , I ~ 1231 Social LEG1SLAT1VE COUNCIL Secnr·it-y 1232 of embarrassing Government or the hon.

Mover, lbut with the sole intention an{] desire of assisting in our looking at .all ,1spects of the· matter properly, so as t;> put the matter in the 'May that I think it should be.

I ho•pe that t he introduction of some form of insurance against sick ness will not .be long dielayed.
Two things which have worried me throughout m y life are-what is going to happen to me when I am sick and when I get too old I think it is the same with to work.

everyone.

As far as I am concerned I have no fear of death, bu,t fear of pm vision in the case of sicknes,s.

I kn~ from experience in contact with ordinary people that is one of the greatest fea,·,; or problems with which they are faced.

financi al and I hope that with these limitations Professor Richa1·dson h:-i s very accurately recognised.
i t wo uld b~ possible to introduce some form oo' in surance for the people 1n what i~ calle<l "the lower income group."

Now, Sir, on the question of hou~ ing, I was privileged to have a discussion with Professor Ric,hardson during his visit.

but I did not speak to him about housing.

But he saw.

Others and myself a,:sisted him a.s much as possible to sP.e all types of om· housing.
P rofesso1· Richardson has put his finger on lots of things which a few of us, especially du 1· ir.g the ]ast two years and more parti culady during the last 13 to 14 months, tried to clraw G::ivernment's attention to.

At page 11 Professor Richardson has pointed out something of which I have spoken in this Council more than once a nd.

so,me hon.

Members ,-hare my views.

That is this: It is largely a waste of effo1·t to· 1·e-house people, no matter b.v what means.
whether by building or helping them to build thefr 0W11 houses, unless S'ide <b,v side w ith that is our being ,able to en sure that those people are going to l'.le fully and gainfully employed.

Other wise we are only going to make t.he situation worse.

I believe, is it and sh-aight on Prnfessor Richardson has put it fingH his serves to suppo rt strongly, or to cor roborate, or whatever term one would like to use, the views put forward here and elsewhere.

The urgent •problem in this country to provide .


gainful occupation for those who are at present under- employed, and to provide in that same gainful occ 11pation for the coming generation and the present growing generation, because in a few yel:\,rs we .are going to be faced with the most rapid increase in our popuJ.ation.
Im proved health measures have created n. ris~ in Infantile figures: t he birth rate the death rate ; is exceeding b_v fa r people are dying older .and very few are cl_v i ng in infancy.

The problem which faces this Gov ernment today is to do its utmost as quickl~r as possible-whether by means of land settlement on the coastlands or on the river banks: and I think the to provide rivet· hanks come first - means wl1ereby people can own houses, occupy their minds and bodies in a health?
manner and earn a livelihood.

in Before I sit down I would like to join to Professor tributes Richardson-a man of: high calibre on the subj ect.

the Mr. TeHo I ·want to join w.ith tho"'e who congrat ulated the mover of t he motion as well as those who sup ported it in such a convincing manner.

Unlike the last speaker I am not among those who in this Council supported the elamour fo1· social in this country.

But T think I can claim· some cr edit for maki:ig that clamour outside this Council.
When 1·eading the matter. "

Ow'ne1·ship of Houses" for the first time I wondered why Professor Richard son with his wide vocabulary must steal from me these few words: "th e firmest foundation of social ::;ecurity''.

At one time when, as :.

Lracle unionist, it fell security .. .. 1233 Social 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Security 1234 [ M.r.

'l'elloj to my lot to tell workers to lay the foundation of.
social security by o,vning their own homes, and when I met with rather hostile opposition, I used t hese words: " Whatever social security, and social amenities are offei:ed you, you will never feel that firmness of social security until you have owned and lived in you r own homes:• I think of the Sugar Industry's Welfare Housing Scheme and I am proud of the part we trade unionists played in it, in oppos.ition to m a1ny politicians who thought that the houses were a means of keeping people away from social securitr rather than plac ing t hem on the road to true social security.
I feel ver.,· happy today to see that I was at one with 1,omeone whose opinion can the be world, and who also advocate1, that -it is th e firmest fou nrlation for 1,ocial secur ity.

recognised and rngarded in I want also to pay tribute to the Ministry of Housing and t he Housing Commission for the efforts they have made.
Those of us who go arou nd the Colony and talk to peopie can hear th e song of praise and the expressious of appreciation - 0f course, interminglerl · with criticism as well- of the work of I think the Report can that Ministry.

be r egarded as a support of the great work that has already been done.

P el'• haps .it will serve as a stimu lan;.

tn further expedite the good work that is now in hand.

He has made reference to the Con I am very tributory Provident Fund.
pleased he has doue so, and say, again, that trade unionists all along saw the need for such a fund.

They saw the necessity for security in old age.

and I r,m very pleaged to say that I "·as as s ociated with the Man Power Citizens Association which was the first trade union to enter voluntary agreement on behalf of workers for social security and pension scheme for their old age, I refer to t he Demerara Bauxite Com pany·s agreement s igned some years ago.
I think it was also the first trade union in Georgetown in t he same re spect, in connection with the agreement <;;gned by the Demernra E lectric Com pany.

Social securi ty was always with in ou r 'eyes of protection' in the face indeed, speaking to of .

cr'ltic.ii<m .

and some of t he workers and beseeching the11t the voluntar y provident sch eme of t he Sugar Pro "You are re ducers, I fus in g it now, but some day in the near futu l'e it might be made compulsory.
because often we <1re forced to be cruel to be ki nrl."
to make use of told them: I welcomt t hese recommendations but we find that whil e certain ameni t ies are offered b:v concern s employing more than 25 persons, in the smaller firms, because of slender income these ar e wit hdrawn or not offered at all, and it will be rather embarrassing for certain people to find that on account nf the fact that their employer does not employ as man~, as 25 persons, t hey cannot participate in R scheme to give them security in their old ;i.ge-when I am ven, pleased.
t hey need it most.

however, t hat the recommendation has ,and hon.

Members will been made excuse me H I try to steal a bit of t hunder and say that 1 somettn,..,s flatter myself :.hat t he little we have done in t he field of social .

security among the sugal' worker s might in some way have inspired this recom menrlation ..

The report asks t hat certa in words like "poverty" and "pauper" be dis continued from use off.ici-ally.
Many of us may not appreciate the meaning I · can of that recommendation, 1;,ut l L ;it_ --=.:..

12-35 ~ociai · LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Se_curity 1233 assure hon Members t hat many folk have actually been deprived of what they are legally entitled to, because of the use of these terms.

It will be a very bad day for Guianese when they lose every semblance of pride.

While it is said t hat it is false pride that would not permit a man or woman to line up and a woman especiall y - I am0nrr to pre.
still ser,,e a s nmll bit of pi·ide.

I am t hat Government has very pleased accepted to · re move these offensive terms.

think it is necessary the recommendation "paupers," termed those I want to make slight reference also to the provision of sickness bene fits.

I notice that action on this matte.,· has been suspended, but I am.
almost certain that this Government does not propose to shelve indefinitely any s.uch progressive mea1-ur e. Again, ·r might be overdoing it, but we also made vol untary arrangements for sick benefiits to the s ugar worke-rs.

I suppose when they reid thjs recommendation they will feel very pleased to see that what they have done and agreed to voluntarily w,)uid suon l,e prntected by Government .
This recommendation is a very compr e hensive one, and I see t hat not even the children, for whom we have done · so much and are still to do more for, a r€ omitted.

Recommendations have been made for a feeding scheme and t his Government should be proud that al ready _there Js in existence a scheme giv fog free meals to a certain number of children.

H.ecomrnendations oo how .

it should be extended are · also in this re port, and I .am very pleased to see t hem incorporated in it .
Sc much has been said .about Work men's I ,Compensation already, would prefer not to add somet hing more: but to take my seat.

I beg to suppo:rt the J!\Otion.

that Mt·.

Ramphal: I rise merely to do justice to Professor Richardson, but be fore doing .

so I join with other hon.

.Members in congratulaoing Government 111 its acceptance of Professor Richard soil's report rin principle.

I \Vant to go forthei· and congratulate Government on the realistic .

approach which it has made in the matter.


This subject is one of some magnitude and so I am particu larlf glag t o see 'the realistic approach.

wh:le introducing at the earliest pos sible time whatever measures are with in our financial competency and capac· ity.
If I did not know how heavily bur dened Government was, I }VOt\ld have remarked that the report was handed in since April and that it was now seven mon ths and 12 days since t hat time, and I would h;rve drawn strong attencion to the fact that Government had delayed in t he matter.

But I am aware of the preuccapation of Governm ent ,in many ways, I do not raise 'the point.
therefoi·e j T h is is something we can s hou t abou·t and I must congratulate Mr. Tello as •being the only Member on the ''Gov ernment Bench" - I use those words from tim e to time , ,in reference to hon.

Members occupying t he larger seats giving du e·.

praise t o it.

This is some thing the Government should talk about --it i:; h talking point.

Barring the establishment of the· Credit Corpora ttlon .

I t hink this is the fin~st measure that ha;;; been introduced in · this Cow1- .
cil, and I think Government h as ever:v reason to l;>e proud about what it has done.

in _ this matter particularly.

Members who have .adorned this Council frorri time to bime have pressed matters that would lead to some meas t'.ire of social security.

I prefer to think at this time of the now agung Hubert Critchlow as the first individual in the community bold• enough to talk about th_ese things, and l am _gla·d to see he is _.

A 1237 Social 25TR NOVl!

)MBE~ 1954 Seourity 1238 [M1·.


Ramphal J still with us.

I am sure he will be glad to know that the ~mall schemes he saw poss.ible many years ago are now grow ing into full stature-like a big tree to bear good fruit in years to come.

Special credit also should be given to Dr. J.

A. Nicholson and Mr. D. P. De hidin, Members of the old Legislative Council.

It was Dr. Nicholson's motion that was f inally adopted by the Coun cil.
,it their business I think that as a Council we should place ·on record our gratitude to those who }}ave gone before us, and who have to intr oduce made measures of this kind.

It is our good fortune that we are the ones to limple ment what they had dreamed about, and I feel ver y happy indeed that I am able to sit with oth er Members of this Coun dl today and to approve of this motion when the time arrives.

I feel that we should place on record our deep and gl.
"ateful thanks to those who have done t,heir share before us.

It i_s not often that I miss any word spoken by my hon.

friend, Mr. Gajraj, ·but on this occasion when he quoted the proverb ''The poor are always w,ith Hs" bis voice dropped and I did not catch every word he said.

on that par ticular point, but I did gather the im pression (I hope I am wrong in this), that we must· help the poor-lthat char ity must be part of our very nature.

!

want to join issue with him.


It is not charity, it is our duty.

What we are do ing today is social justice; to provide for the old and infirm, t hose people who are incapable after they have given of their very best.

It is not charity in ·the old sense but really doing social justice to them 1 doing what we feel is our duty.

Now I come really to what I had risen tc do~to ask this Council, and parbicularly the hon.
mover of the motion, to accept a small amendment fo liis motion by the addition of a sei:.

ond resolution to read: ''Be it further resolved that this hon ourable Council grateful thanks to Professor J. H. RicharQ.Son f11r his admira•ble :fteport," records i.ls Much has already been said about this grand Repo,rt-its conscieqtious ness, its brevity and its s.implicity.
l c1o not wish to go over the ground but I wish to say that in years to come we' shall look back upon this Report as our "Bcveriug~ Plan", our Social Charter, the foundation for a Welfare State, and children yet unborn will praise t he name of Professor J. H. Richardson.

taken cannot Mr. Speaker: Before anyone speaks on the motion pefore the Council -I should like to point out that I am afraid l cann.ot accept the hon.

Mr. Ramphal's proposed amendment in the form h·e has suggested it.
Other means must to congratulate P rofessor be a Bill Richardson.

We mention any particular individual and congratulate him.

therefore cannot I accept the suggestion that there should be incorporated as an amendment any ,;uggestion of a personal refer ence to the author of this Report, however ex.· ce1Ient it may be, because the motion has reference to a Bill, and the re!

:!olu t fon must have some reference to the Bill itself.

'in I Sir Frank McDavid: think we are debat ing item ·No.
8 which is a motion for the acceptance in principle of the recommendations contained in Professor· Richardson's Report on Social Security, ·and I do submit for your consideration, Mr. Speaker, that opportunity may be taken to add, as the h0'11.

Mr_ Ramphal suggests, a word, of thanks to the person who is· named in the resolution.

Mr. Speaker: out that I do pot think we can do it.

I am only pointing , 1239 Social LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Security 12.J.O I beg to disagree Mr. Raatgever: with you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it can be added because, as the hon.

Member for Agriculture has said, Professor Richardson's name is mentioned in the motion with which we are dealing.

Personally I see no harm in adding to it.

It is simply an addition, and if the hon.

mover would accept it there would be no need for- anyone to second it.

If not I would ask the hon.

Mr. Ramphal to move it as_ a separate motion.

a moment that there should be a ny delay, as the sooner it is tackled the better, but a number of points do arise.
In 1948 the Company by whom I am employed asked me to prepare a com prehensive pension scheme to cover all g rades of our employees.

The sch em e came into operation i n 1949. and al t hough it is really a heavy burden to carry, not least for the man earning a low wage, we are very glad indeed that we brought it into operation.

Mr. Speaker: I will give the mat ter some consideration.
Mr. Ramphal: I am suggesting an the the motion by amendment of :1ddition of the following words : ''and that this Council records its gra-te for ful thanks to Professor Richardson his valuable Rep ort."

.Mr.

Speaker: I am inclined to t hink that that would be all right.

Mr. Cummings: Mr.

Sneaker, I am suggesting that you were looking- at item 9 on the Order Paper (the motion for an increase of the rates of old.

age pensions) to which your rul1ng w oulcl h ave been applicf!ble.

lWr.
lWr.

Sneaker: I am afrairl I wa,;.

.The hon.

Member had ns ecl the worrl:; "Be it further !·Psolved" and I .rrot the impression he was the m otion.

referring- to Lt.-Col. Haywood : To save time T will not attempt to repeat what other r,;neakprs have ver'" ably cove,·erl hefcw" me, but I would like to s:ciy how m,nrlt I am in a.r:rcemen t w ith pr::ictically ev,,_n01inr?

: +h::i.t has heen - i,,; " afternoon.

I am very !

!lad inoef!d th::it the h 'm.

MembPr.

]VTr.

Macnie.


rlrm,v :,+ tentinn tn the fart that a rrrr,:1t rlr,.<>1 nf r·nnside ration wn11lcl have to h" givl'!n tn the prnnnsn] f or ,i, <:nntribntnr" Pnwi I ~m not ,.,uggesting- for dent Fund.

~-:, irl There is one important point I would like to add to those which the hon.

Mr. Macnie made, and it is t h at the very men who are in the lowest in come groups are those who change r]~P.ir employment mosr frequently.
anrl \-~r:v few Cnmnanies which i-i1c1·e a re have compulsory contributory pension schemes.

Again and again we f ind that a man leaves our empl oyment after having accumulaterl a comfortable nest egg which the pension scheme P.TO· vides, and every effort to rprovide some t hinsr for his old age auickly comes to nothing.

I feel that there sh ould be ,in nnnosition at a.11.

rather the reverse.

hy those Comom1ies who ;:,!ready have pension schPm~,; in operation.
As regards sickness ins-urance I too submit that consideration of such a scheme need not be defer red for l on g but should be tackled as quickly as ·,)ossil·,le.

A.rrc,in.

the Cnmoany.

fnr whi<:h I work not Jonir ag-o introduced a sick ness scheme with no insurance about it.
We nut the minds of our employees at r est by telling them that in the event of sickness fees, rnedicine1, and hospital isation would be met by the Company, and that wh erever nossiblt1 the firm would continue to pay the full wages 0r salarie,; of employee~ during their illness.

We found that after a certain amount of effort in t h e early ~taJ?

;e11 by some employee!!

to t ak• un-fair ,advsnbg~ of the 11cheme the va!


!t the cost of medical 1241 Social 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Security 1242 [Lt. Col. Haywood] majority of them soon came tu r ealise that it was an effort to put their minds at rest so that they would not have a11y fear about their families, if they be came ill. We find that the response has been most gratifying, and there is a happier fee!fog among ou1· employees Therefore I do than existed before.
recommend insurance ~ho ,.ild be introduced as earl,1- as pos sii;;e. sickness that There are two small points which I would also like to mention.

I fully agree that some of these terms men tioned in paragraph 34 C., which sets out the decision;; of the Governor-in I am not Council, should be changed.

a first class classical scholar but I sub mit that there was nothing originally in the word "pauper'' to which objec tion should be taken, except the m isuse I and abuse of the word by officials.
fully agree that it is a word that has now g rown out of all recognition and is certainly objectionable, but I clo not think it is altogether happy to s ub stitute for that one word the words "person in receir~ of public assistance."

I sug-i:r.est that WP h-y to find one worrl to replacP.

on-e word.

and, for the w;int of anything better.

T would sug-g·est tlrn W'.Jrd "beneficiar:v." Again, as re.!

!ard;; t.he proposal tn ch,,111re thP.

name "Alm,: House" to "The Palms'' I am sorry T cannot bP.
it wou ld not be too nnr1i.1r11ifierl to ;isk the n11hJ;,.. +o ,;pnrl " lll" n·oci-in11" tfl th<> P1•c,~~ so that we may fine'!

a mor0 suitable name.

constrnrtivP.

PP.rhans Finally I heartily support what the hon.

Member for Labour, Health and Housing (Mr. Cummings) said about I the appointment of a statistician.
too fa il to unclerf;tand how we can plan all the schemes fo r social assistance or any other fo r m of development unless w·c have up-to-date and comprehensi1·•~ and statistics unemployment about under-employment: I have sat on many Committees on which we had the widest li.g-ures g iven to us regarding -_-arj i1;g unemployment and under-employment.

The sooner we get t he facts the better.

()therwise I support the motion entire ly.


Mr. Carter: I beard quite a num ber of names mentioned o-f persons who had introduced ideas about soc,ial secur the Leg,islature and I am not ity in g·oing to be left out.

On the 1st of July, l!J53, I gave notice of a motiion in the House o,f Assembly which read: "B:, it resolved that thls House re commends to Government to enquire into the possibility of p:roviding for the estab a Contributory National lishmen:t: of Health ar.d Old Age Insurance Scheme.''
I go a few months further back to item 15 of my Election Man1ifesto which promised my electorate to seek t he establishment of National Health, Old Age and Unemployment Insurance on a one-third, Government-employer-em ployee· basis.

When that motion was tabled in the late House of Assembly the then Min ister for Labour, Industry and Com merce told the (Mr. Ashton Chase) House that he understood an expert was coming from the United .K ingdom to in vestigate the possibility of establishing such a scheme.
Almost immediately afte.r the present Leg,islature was in augu rated I inquired whether that gen tleman was coming, and on being advis ed that he was I di'd not table a sim ilar motion in this Counci.J.

Professor Richardson has come arid gone, leav :,, Q' w ith us a Report, part of whi.ch m .s Excellency h as asked t his Council to acce·pt in principle.

That I am quite prepared to do.

The Attorney General: His Excel ,mcy has not asked this ,Council to acce·pt part of the Report in principle.
1243 Social LEGiSLATlVE COUNCIL Security 1244 there are Mr. Carter: The Executive C.J un cil has asked this Council to ~ccept the Report in principle, but with m.1· know ledge of social security I canno;; ::iccept its Professor Richardson's Report in entirety, because several points with which I do not agree, and which should not operate in th :s coun try.
I agree with paragra.phs A and B of the dec1isions of the Governo-r -in Council with respect to Professor Rich concern.ing recommendations ardson's Public Assistance and Old Age Pen sions.

I do not agree that t,he terms "poor relief'' and "Poor Law ComrnisRioner;:;" should be changed to ·".public -assistance'' and "Social Assistance Board" respective !y, and in future the term "person in !
'eceipt cf public assistance' ~houlcl bc used instead of the term "pauper" and t he name of the Alms House cha,nged to "The Palms."

A pauper is a pauper, and t he -only way to overcome su-ch wndition is by £.acing the situation squarely in th•!

face.

You cannot overcome the c"ircum stances of orne being a .pauper except you change him so that ·he actually be I agree with the comes a m illionaire.
la.st speaker that it would be better to request the public to submit suggestions as to an appropriate name for the place we call "The Almshouse."

It would be a more a1ppropriate pla.n to arrive at an than "T'a.e appropr iate name Pal.ms'' which might -deceive even me l that it is a better place than it is.

come now to "D".
come now to "D".

-other "The acceptance in ;pirinciple of the pro posal to introduce a Contriibutory Provi dent F'und for old nge and in\'alidity, in duding exemption of private companies whic'h opera·te Pension or Provident iFund Schemes for their employees, the ibenefit, of •w'hi.ch are at least as favourable as thtJ Government Schemes.1 ' In 1947 the Trade Union of whicn I was then Secretary was able to get the D emerara Bauxite Company to agree to establish a Non-Contributory Pension Plan.
That operated on t he basi,s of a contribution of 11 per cent.

of the annual earn ings -of the employees who were not on t he Company's Confidential Pay-Roll.
When first it was introduced it a-ppeared very good, but experience has taught the ·workers of that Company that that con t rlbn tion, whether by the Company 01· otherwis1:., was really part of their wages which they d,id not get, .and if they had t o leave the employment before they qualified for a pension under the Plan- 15 years' service and the age ,of sixty that contribution of 1½ per cent.

wa,s lost to them.
wa,s lost to them.

Consequently the workers be gan to cl1amour for the scheme to be changed from non-c-ontri!butory to con· tributory.

if Therefore, study carefully I Proposal "D", I am not lin agree.m-ent with the introduction of a Contributory Provident F•uml according to the sug gestion of the hon.

Mr. Mia.cnie, as H would be compulsory as far as I under stand it.
But what was further brought out was, if a person is interested in him self or her,self-and that tls one of the thi.n,gs that I am longing for the Gui anese to be in order to .arrive at a state of independence--he or she must learn to pay for the things he or she wants.

If this scheme is to operate really to the benefit of the working-class people of this country, I fail to see how it can be operated in any other way than on the basis of Government, employer and employee contributing one-third ea.ch.
I can remember when Profe.ssm.· in Richardson was being questfoned Finance Committee, immediately af ter his report had been p1,epared, he sug gested that the employee should pay a part, the .employer two pm·ts and the Government a part.

When asked what part, he c.ould 11ot say.

Government's con td·bution to that scheme must not be left to the whims and caprices of what the ·Government may be at any one time.
that It must be definitely understood the Government must · pay one-third, l 1 J j ~ -- ~ ...._.... ._ 1245 Social 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Seciir-ity 124i.

{ [Mr .

Carter] employer one-third and the one-third.

employee Although I did not feel that was the proper time to oppose Professor Richardson, if this Report is to be de bated a,nd finalised in the interest of the working-dass veople, I think accepting it in prinoiple t his afternoon is.about as far as we may, go.
I would like it to come before t his Council to 1be debated paragra,ph by paragraph, and when that t ime s,hall have arrived I think I would make a better conti-ibution to this ques tion of Social Security than Professor Richardson, though I may use his idea.

As a T rade Unionist it happens to be one of my favourite subjects, and it is my opinion that if the scheme can be dnau gurated ,now, regardless of the fact that 50 per cent.
of the inhabitants are unem ployed and/ or under -employed, the time would come-the next feiw years~when the heavy burden which now rests on the shoulders of Governm ent to find thou sands c,f dollars annually for pensions and publiic ;-;.ssis ta_nce would be removed.
In the next ten years those who are at present receiving pen1>ions or pub)ic assistance shall all be dead or most of them, and t hose who s,hall have arrived a.t 60 years of age at that time would have contributed to the pension they would then receive.

T,hat is the i,nde pendence that I am longin.g ito have es tablis hed in the minds of the people 0f this country.

I do not see the necessity for me to speak ver)' much more OE what is left.
At paragraph "I" we see that we are to f eed necessitous school children.

That is an idea over which I ,am not very much enamoured.

This country is sup posed to -be very wealt hy.

Some of us boast that it is, but we do so like a bor with a deceased millionn ire father for getting that t he best •pa.rt of himself is six feet deep like the wealthy resources nnd riches of this country wh ioh arc I I l L underground and it is nothing we can really boast about.
If this country is as wealthy as it is s upposed to be, then this paragraph -would look very bad in the Press of the world, that the Gov emme.nt has to feed the sc,hool children of Brit ish Guiana.

That is nothing we can be very proud about.

With that, Sir, I can only second the amendment by the hon.

Mr. Ramphal, tha.nkin,g Professor Richardson for his very valuable report.

I shall leave what further I have to say on the Report as a whole.
in ·b1,inging instrumental Mr. Bobb : Mr. Speaker, so m uch has been -already .said that it shows tha',; this honourable Council welcomes this Report and the valuable work put in by the author of it, and it remains only for me to say that I endorse fully the re marks of appreciation w,hich have fallen from the lips of those who have spoken.
I am also pleased that those who have spoken have g iven some meed of° praise to the Legislators of the past who have been t his matter to the attention of this Council from time to time.

I would rather like to confine myself to what is in the motion itself, and 1.hat is the adoption of the The Governor in Report in principle.
Council has alr eady indti'cated some im plementation o,f that principle · by per mitting to recommendations I, appear m t he Sess10nal Paper on the Report, and those recommenclati_ons in d-icate the lines a1ong which the imple mentation of the principle will follow.
It is good for us to take notice of that line of thought because, in view of t he importance of the measures to be adopt ed on the strength of this Report, we should have our minds fully made up as t'J what we are going to embark upon, the financial content of the meas ures we are going to adopt, and the 5peed with which those measures may be adopted.

That leads me to say that I am ver y happy that what I conceive as tlie prinGiple of the Report aims at certa·in .
1247 Social LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Security 124& the peop1e assisting very substantially whom it is intended to assist - those who are called panpers, or what you will, but nevertheless those who ar e in need.

I believe there are suc:h people all over the countr y, more- or less in t h<!

rural districts, who a re much in need vf th is tremendous assistance which would be forthcom ing.

In t he matter of names,.


I feel we liave not done justice y et- in choosing names in substitution for t hose we al ready have in use.

Particularly I want to r efer to the substitution of " The Palms" for ''Alms House".

That at once bl'ings to rn.r m ind a clever putt ing to gether of "pauper" and "Aims House."

I do not know why we are running away from the word "Welfare", because ibis is a welfare effon, a welfar e scheme.
1 would like to make my person al suggestfon of "'Velfare House" which · is what the Alms House is.

I really can n9t 1,ee an:,·thing· beautiful or euphemis tic in the name "The Palms".

With clue deference to t he author of the name, the c9ncept of it has in my mind nothing to do with the idea of welfare.

I hope we shall come to something like "Wel fare Home", something reflecting more credit to th is honourable Council.

The hon.
The hon.

Mr. 1\i!acnie was very can, fu l to bring to the notic,e of this Coun cil the question of t he relationship of the scheme now in operation by private Companies to what Government pro poses.

M.Y recollection is that when th2 Beveridge P lan came into existence some sui;J1 difficulty was indicated, and I am s ure that in Great Britain th e difficulty was met and overcome ver y happily, and I would suggest that the hon.
Mover may consider taking steps to discover from the Coloni,al Office exactly how they met this difficulty.

I -say I am sUJ·e about it, berau,;e I belong to an urgaIJ,isation which has had to face up to that very thing, and I know what the proposals wer e from t he Govern, ment side, and how acceptable those So · I proposals wer e on both sides.

think there is a po~sibility of our solv ing t he difficulty in that direction.
It .is assumed that at a later stage some Committee or BoaTd will be ap point ed to go into the deta,ils.

We ar e only asked to accept the Repor t m principle, and I am sure the Governor in Council is going to_ take advantage of any idea, there may ·be, of the Mem bers of this Council in order t o make sure t hat the best r esults a,re .obtained.

So I have no f ears that the right t hing is not going to be done when the time comes.

I do not see t he r eason for th e apprehension of the hon.
Member who ~poke before me.

I think that one shouJt.l be ver y optimistiic and appreciative of the wor k t hat has been put in, and be thankful fo r what so far we h ave aa complished this ver y worthwhile direction.

in ther e Mr. JaiJal: I rise to support the motion , but I f eel that I would not have done my duty if ·I did not add certain comments to t hose made here.

Like th e lion.

l\h.


~facnie, ,I feel that there arc several features of the recommendations with respect to the Pension Scheme which a r e worthy of being brought to full view.

Like the hon.

Mr. Macnie, is going to be diff L I know culty in providing adequate protec tion for such persons whose work is In m y particular mostly t he r ice business, we h av;?

• bu_siness, seasonal workers, and so it is also in most of the agricultural industries of this country.
Machine workers are actually placed on a seasonal schedule of employment because of several lqcal condi t ions and, probably, because om· ind ustries cannot be put on a 24-hour run.

I want t o mention this particular phase because, when the proposal is to seasonal.

~ I 1 12-19 Social 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Seciirity 1250 [Mr. Jailal] b.: adopted fully ·these factors must out.
and implememed, be clearly wor ked ln the case of t he larger firms that now have pension schemes oper at111g, [ wish to mention this existing facLO r. An employee is required to have a cer tair1 amoun t of tin:e in the employment of the company before he can be allowed to contrib1ne to the pension scheme that may be existing.

That defini.tely is going to produce much hardship.
I think it should be on similar lines as the pens·ion schemes of the b ig companies abroad- as soon as an employee's n ame appears on the pay-roll he is entitled t o contribute to any pension scheme that I ma.v also add t hat may be existing.
ther e should be a feature like what I have known to exist in the pension schemes of companies abroad, where an employee on leaving the employment of a company before the expiration of a certain period of time can gel; back his contributions, and the remaining portion contributed by the company goe~ to the gener al pool and is distribut ed annuaily among those who are lefi; in th e scheme.

I feei that some atten tion sh ould be paid to that .
on are based But I want to disagr ee somewhat with tile recommendations here.

These recommendations a Government-o•perated Provident Fund.

I cannot agr ee with Government opera ting a Provid ent Fund.

That may be n ecessar y, but it is my opinion that a pension scheme, a death benefit plan and a housing scheme for employees are t i1i.egs ih,,t should be allied closely w I 1sc-fer g'-'!tLe1·.
to this particularly I was employed for several because years by a company that is acclaimed to be the largest investor in the Carib b ean in on e solid m ass.

t h at com pan~- t.h ings were allied those three together-An Employees' Death Benefit In an Sch eme, an Employees' Pension Scheme a nd l<.

:m1ployees' House Building Plan.


The money that was collected to p.rovide that pension was kept for a. cer tain period and t hen iiven over to the Plan for the buildi ng of houses, and on that money was obtained interest which provided for death benefits later I know of such death benefits fo r on.

employees abroad who have worked ten years for a company having amount ed to sor,~ething equivalen t to $10,000.
But, of course that cannot be applied to this cuuntry, be.cause 0~1 r wage-scale is I me~ely men not on the same basis.

tion t h at to sh ow that t here was a large contribution for what was g iven by a Death Benefit Plan.

Let us say t hat finally three or four thousand people decide to t ake part in the pension scheme.

What are we going to do with all the money?

I woul<l say, let the money be invested here, and not in Austra lia or som e other place; and there is no roason for puttiin g it intt'.
a ny indust r.1·.

Let t h e people en.ioy the fruits of their own lwbour and let every nickel they put -into t his pension scheme come hack to them aga.in.

I think careful consideration s hould be given to this matter ,and to the scheme ,being under w11itten !by loca l firms instead of by Government.
I wish to draw to the attent ion of this coLmcil the fact that while we are protectin.g the employee in Georgetown and New Amsterdam , there is a smnll group of people who a re more or less on t heir own and are not employed because there are not enough j obs to go around.

Are we going to let these people handle t he ir own pensions if it is the intention of this Coun.cil tha t oth er 'J)eople outside this prescribed circle should also derive I would be sur benf!fiLs of pension?

prised.
prised.

t h e people who t1lant coffee and cocoa and one acre of rice at a time are worthy of s ome con sideration, 1 feel that ~ ... 1251 Social LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Security 1252 Mr. Macnie: To a point of cor- rection: P-aragraph 10 of the Report, on page 8 says : ''Any self-employed person should have 'the :right to join voluntarily on pay men.t of amount equal to the joint con tributions of an employer and worker.·• Mr. Jailal: As long a s he pays the contributions of the employer and the worker.
I am submitting that the small peasant farmer does not make on a calculated basis $12.00 a week.

How are we to expect him to pay both figures?

Some consideration should be given ·him -Government or othe•rwise.

He has to face t he diff.iculties created ,by the wind" and the rains.

He is the man who is the actually building the economy of country.

The sugar i-nd u,stry cannot c,mploy everybody.


We hav.e got to plant acres and acres of land in order to pro vide the wherewithal of life, therefore H is dc::;irahle every consideration should be given the small peasant.

I feel that not only should he be allowed to join a provident fund but he should be g,iven some kind of security I remember some time for his crop.
ago reading about a crop insurance plan and I think t hat the time has come, all things being equal, w,hen t he farmer, who has to take all the chances with no proper drain age and irrtigatioa, poor land and so on, should be pr ovided for in this respect.

How is he to •provide for his family later on?

If it is not pos s ible now for his crop to be insured by some spec.ial scheme - Mr. Farnum: Sir, I would like tc info1·m the hon.
Member that two or three years ago a committee was set up with one of the .A,gricultur,al officers on it· to go into the question of insurance for crops, and a•fter four or five meetings the committee found it was absolutely impossible.

No insurance firm would und ertake it and it was a most risky pro JlOsition for Government to undertake.

Mr. Jailal: I admit it would be i:l risky proposition to undertake.

I am not 1'aying that crop insurance is practic l am saying that in cases where al,ie.
it might be practicable, let us put it in Lo practice, and in cases where farmers have lost their crops that Governme11t should back them u,p.

I felt that in 1950 when the farmer lost his crop the Gov ernment should have paid him.

Some development a long these lines shoultl take place co-incidental with these re commendations.

Mrs. Dey: It would be amiss if I did not add my quota, especiially to sup port this motion.

The recommendations supply a Jong felt need.


I would like to endorse all that Mr. Ramphal said when he mentioned Mr. Huber t Critchlow, as I know how hard he worked to get it started.

I am indeed happy that I happen to be a Member of this Government.

sitting around t his ta.ble to see these ideas come into fruition.

The hon.

Mover f inds himself in a position where everybody is trying to 'pull his sword' but the honour is his to be e:i;calib11r as this matter falls w itnin his portfolio.
A,ra'in, I support this mo ti•on in •its entirety.

M1·.

Speaker: I am afraid Couno.

:il must adjourn and meet tomorrow, other wise we would not be able to finish ·im portant business.

The hon.

the Chief Sec-retary is not here.

and there is one importanL Bill which it is desirable should be taken through all its stages.

Mr. Ramphal: I s uggest t hat the hon.

Mov,er adopt the amendment as part of the motion.


Mr. Farnum: I would respect- fully s uggest, Sir, that in the next ten minutes the deibate would be finished.

I will not be long in my reply.

Mr. Speaker: We must meet to morrow.

Is there any objection to that?

~ l 1253 Social 25TH NOVEMBER, 1954 Security 1254 .... Mr. Farnum: Not long, Sir.

The Financial Secretary: lt is 1:!

)l far from five o'clock, and I have an ap poin,tment.

I cannot go to Finance Com mittee unt,il this motion is completed.
l am not objecting to meeting tomorrow.

vVe can meet tomon·ow and finish.

I do not 1rnow whether the Executive Council meeting will continue the after noon-we start in the morning from half past eight, and should get through by noon .

into i\fr.

~peaker: ad~ .iuL:rncll until Friday.

· November 2lith at s p.m, · Council is Mr. Cummings: There is a special meetin,g of t he Executive Council .to morrow, a.nd I think it is going to take the whole day.
Mr. Raatgever: Sir, I sec 110 harm in continuinig for another 15· minutes and finishin,g this motion.

Mr. Speaker: One cannot tc•ll what will ha.ppen.

I would like to respect the wishes of the Council to continue a little longer, but we certafoly can meet tomorrow.

There would be some diffi culty in finishing the business tod,,y.

How long will the hon.

Mover take?

l