Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698069890356.pdf (Guyana)
SH Jllemucrs Present .

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

G ore1·11m e11 t Notices.

84:!

LEGISLA Tl.VE 28tl!,_ February COUNCIL 1!.l2!l.

1'hwrsclau :.!

'he Honourable N. Cannon (Senior Member for Georgetown).

'l'lH• Ilononralilc TI.

0.

Hurupl1e�·s (:Ucm.l.Jer for East mcmcrara).

­ '1'hc 001.rnci,l met 1mrsiuint to culjoiirn Tl1!!

Hono.nra1,1c Loncl.

), 'l'hc l\Iember Sm GonnoN Guc:c:1s- -in the Ho11oul':1hln for Berbice).
Tl:c Honrn1rnl1Jc mcnt, H.rs E)·, J�LLENCY TIIE GOVERNOR, B1rn:.,1.,rnr:-GE:,'1,1uL 111-:1w, Clrnii·.

rresi<l.ent, K.C.l\f.G., D.S.O., (l\Iember for West fDemerara).

E. A. Luc1:hoo (Senior (Jm1ior l\Iembcr for Georgetown).

.J.

Ele:1za r (Junior TJ.te Ilonoural!lc A. V. Crane.

LL.R.

T'cn:y C. ·wight PRESENT.

Jj' -·· 'l'he Ilonourable tary, l\Ir.

C. Donglas-Jo11es, the Colonial Secre- C."�LG.

':lfemher for New Amstcrtlarn).


.The Honourable A. R F. Weliller, F.TI.G.R, :(,hrnior J.\fembcr for Berbirc).

The Honourable J. GonsalYes (.i\fem· 'l'he · Ho11ouraule the Attol'l1ey-Geu• be1· for Georgetown).

l c,ral, "or Josephs,, K.C., B.A., I-L.:.\L (Cantab.

), LL.B.

(Lond.).

l\Ir.

II�c The Honourable J. Smitlt (Nomin• 1ated Unollicial l\Iembcr).

The Ilonourable A. P. G. Austin (�ominatetl Unofficial Member).

Tlte-Ilonouraule T. T. Smellic MINUTES.

(Norn inaterl Unofficial Member).


Tho Hanonrable F. (pias (Nomi..na• terl U11011kial l\Iember).

The Honourable T. Millard, Colonial The minutes of the meeting of 27th and �irculated, February, were con.:fi.rmed.

as printed 'freasurer.

GOVERNMENT NOTICES.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. Tlte Honourable S. IT.

Seymour, A.M.I.

Mech.

E. (Nomina1.cd }[ember).

Unofficial Major the Ilonour·able Gn1y, M.A., Ph.D.

(Edin.

), ( Oxon.

), Director The Honom:able Director of Agriculture.
: I .ask permission, W. Bni.n B. Li.tt of Educatio11.

J. S. Dash, B.S.A., C.Douglas-Jones) sir.

to _give notice to introduce at tl1is ses-sion of the Council rer­ aft.P.rnoon's ta in Bms.

I am not able to give notice now because the Bills a,re being printed in rm extraordinary whiclt will not lie ready before this afternoon.

I also ask permission tile suspension Orders to have tl1e Bills read a first time.

R. V. Evnn ,v011ir.
R. V. Evnn ,v011ir.

Member for South-East of ·Rnles an<l R. E. Brassington of the IStanding to give notice "Gazette" Permission granted.

Esse• (Sei1i.or quebd)-.

Me1nber for North-West The H.onourablo 'l.

'he Honourable (Senior Il.Sc., Essequebo).

Colonel B 1·a.dburn, the II011ourable W. E. H. Inspcctor-Ge11cral of Police.

.J.

C. Craig, D.S.O., Major the Hononra,blc of Public Works.

Director The Honoural>le Dip.

For.

( Can ia b) , Cons-er,·a Forests.. B. R-.
Wood, l\l.A .. tor of Tl1" Honourahlc J. M11llin, A.I.M.M., F. S. I ., Commissioner l\fiJ1C,;, of Lands aJ1<l �he ATTORNEY GENERAL (M� I give notice that at of the Connril Hecto;-Josephs): tl1e next meeting nRk leave to introduce :first time:- and haYe read a I will the proof or ser­ in the Magis­ A Bill to facl!ltalte vice of process in proceedings tmtes' Courts under the Petty Debts Re­ 1893. the Summary Con­ covery O�·clin�nce, vliction 1&93, and the 1Ind!ctable cedure) Ordinance, Offences (Procedure) Offences (Pro· 189!!.
Ordinance.

843 Jiicome Tew; Bill 28 J ANU.ARY 1929 -Committee.

844 UNOFFICIAL NOTICE.

REFUND OF DUTIES.
Mr. 1WEBBER gave notice of the fol­ lowing motion:- Whereas Neville Schuler, recognised Optician of this City, presented Ophthalmic a petition to the late Combined Court on 20th September, of duty on cert.a.in scientific ments '!tor ;the practice HJ27, pra}'1fng for a :refund optical instru­ ; of his profession And whereas under similar circum­ stances, Medical Practitioners, and Veterinary' fessional section 11 (o) third schedule toms :Duties Ordinance Surgeons were allowed .pro­ free of duty under instruments of the Cus­ ;· Dentists And whereas on the consideration of the Committee on Peti­ anrt the said petition, tions were divided in their flndlini>:s. suggested by independerut ture: that the matter might be brought motion before the Legisla­ His Excellency invited to a· refund o!
the Customs duUee Be it Rcso1vcd,-That the Governor be respectfully authorise Involved, l ttiis Council pledges itself to approve His Excellency f such refund in the event or v the Governor so directing.

� ORDER OF THE DAY.

IN.COME TAX.

Mr. MILLARD '(Colonial Treasur­ er): I moYe that the Council resolve it­ "A Bill self into Committee to consider to impose a ta:t upon incomes and to regulate the <'Ollection thereof.''

cla,uses any nee• g the various :to-day.

I hope from hon.
I hope from hon.

mem­ by discussing that may be considered gootl as possible amendments �ssary in Committee that spirit will emanate b,ers in discussin and th:1t we will try and turn out as we good a Bill as pos.-;ible.

wont get a perfel!t will sali8fy tc, make a start smnehow with this In­ come Tax arnl.

it is probable that this Olle with a Bill will Le a satisfactory few minor amendments.

We will now it clause by clause.


consider nm, nor a Bill that but we have got everyo11e, Naturally, Clause 3.-Appointment of admil1is­ trative authority.

Mr. MILLARD moved tl1at the worcls " to be styled ' Commissione come Tax ' " he hlserted after " Commissioners rs of In­ the word " in the second line.

Professor DASH seconded.

Quc:,;tion Clause S.-Exemptions.

put, and agreecl to.

the Government.''


the income of the Mr. ELEAZAR: With respect to this that in (a) the :wortl for the words he substituted administering clause I suggest "Goveruor'' ''Officer vVe want to safeguard Governor, auministering any reason the Governor is · on short leave auy individual would certainly ;rncome Tax if tltc clause is left as wide as it is.

not the income of any Officer If for the Government.

who acts for him from exemption cl1.i.Jn Professor DASH secondecl the motioJ1.
Qnestion put, and agreed to.· The Council reRolved itself into Com­ mittee to consider clause.· the Bill clause by Coun­ The CHAIRMAN: Yesterday.the tne prineiples of this Bill, by the fact said tlw.t tlie Rill and going to be passed, cil discussed and I was much impressed that severa,l meml1ers was obviously that the best thing we could do woulrl 'be, irrespective the Bill was a good Bill or a bacl Bill, to make it as :of whether The CHAIRMAN: There is no diffcr­ Secretary the .Governor and the 11g the Government.
If to be aw.ay on encl!

bc-Lween '.Ofil�er administeri the Governor happens leave the Colonial ed and he is the Officer administering the Government.

fair to charge the Colonial for instance, on the salary of the Governor.

clause is universal and is put in by the Colonial Thi":l in Crown Colonies if lie were acting Governor It would be rather un­ is appoint­ Office.

Secreta1'.l', Mr. ELEAZAR: If that is the idea I will let it pass.

Under (b) it scenls SM.i Income Tax Bill .

27 Fmrnudm: 1\)20.
27 Fmrnudm: 1\)20.

-Committee.

846 to exempt from an electric plant and selling the income of Local Authol'itie� that it is the :i.J1tention taxation from any senice.

The New Amsterdam Town Council is operating lighting also lias a water service and is sclli.11g water to the inhabitants Unless an exemption come from these sonrces to taxation water supplies l.Jc included.

vices, and those of the hon.

µ\1ember for "West Demerara on where there behalf of Georgct.ow11, is I do not wa.ter service.
only a Municipal we can make fish of one and fowl thillk of tl1c Oiltci·.

Gcorgr.lowu Woi·ks in Berbice would be liable cu.

:rnil I ask that eleetric If the Water Works in are exempted GENERAL: 'l'his of :what Georgetown The ATTORNEY must also be exempt­ is made the in­ arnl it current of the town.

the Water aud Mr. LUCKHOO: i.should like to amendment.

·we plant in the electric and the plant is run economic­ water an efficient the suggested support lrnve invested $1:34,000 ally.
vVe also provide supply for flrc purposes.

go to the rerluction encouragement ougl1t Municipality.

o.f rates and every to be given to the All the profits we should encour­ The CHAIRMAN: I am afraid we a rather strong prin­ come up against ciple there: wl1ether age Government or tlrn Municipality trade at the expense prise.

It is not a principle can get the Secretary prove of to apr,1·ove of.
to enter­ of private which we of State to �p­ or I think get this Council Mr. CRANE: T11e view I take is that lighting Loe.al exempt-electric because are exempt only in so far as AJl c-Jec­ on trade.

service is a trade which on by a privar.e con• \Yater Wo1·ks the claim to c�rnot be sustained Authorities iltey arc not carrying tric lighting carried i.:-: usually cern, as in Georgetown.

Rhould be exempted because "rater run by Local Author­ Works are usually ities for the benefit of the public.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY: The is idea underlying are tliat the charges such as to cover maintenance and run­ ning eost and if there is any profit it If goes to the reduction these services them liable ers would liaxe a cause they r-;ltoulcl earn a profit that make to Income rrax the ratepay­ grievance Municipal of these services distinct not earn such a profit.

of the ratef1.

services be­ I to rum;.

val'ies of lightillg, be exC'mpted ·water supply a Mwiicipal exceptions.

<lut:y in tl1r interest bodies.


function from the ap­ ancl one has to in the Colonies in E11gland is not a question ru:u:-: or wltat New AJ11sterclam :which affects a is a print;iJile 'l'here of tl1is nature.

Perhaps the question of th:it principle applic:ition so11�ewhat plir,ation make certain almost always, ie usually, duty.

It is not mere�y clone for profit; it is a Municipal of the health and welfare of the inhab­ itants of tl1e township.
In addition tliat is tlm fact tliat it is almost always If it is not done by Municipal but i:he ..:.ut:v only the ordinary bodies in the Coloni;s, of l\fonicipal it is a thing that Yenture to thiJik from the tas:.

The sl1oulcl st:rnds on however, question of tram­ as the running tlie sa1..'1c lrnsis car�.

"\"Ve rlo know tliat some Uunicipa.l.

supply electric ·Authorities :-:ome rm1 tramcars, tr::nncars, a public trade in the same way as the running onmibm::es g-ets some l)enefit.
·uS1ially trading-companies.

·come to lighting.
Autho1·it.ies thi11g of trade by other people they ought to paj, Income Tax, therefore it would l1e reasonable ·tliat ".·n t.er supply from Income Tax, lmt tliat ,-..·oulcl ing an�, more tlt:m it would apply to tl1e rmmhig ·are businesses indivicluals or So also when you make a profit out of some­ done as a matter T11ese clone by private though it ruight ulility, be said to be or of not apply to electric I submit to exempt is no doubt a species , When Municipal or rabs although which is usually but the running of of omnibuses or tramcars.
the public ligl1t­ light and Mr. SMITH: I am very much intcr­ in the arguments <':-:fr<1 hc1·s for Berbice, lighting j\f1mlcipal of the hon.

Mem­ and :wa�!:)l'.

ser• 1where there are Mr. ELEAZAR: I think the Attor- erred when he s-::1id thnt is 11ot one of tJ1e usual func­ 11r:v General JighHng tions o.f l\Iunicipal �orporations, S±i Income Ta3'J Bnl :lS J A); u .\r.Y l!):l!)

-Oomm'iffcc.

SJS The ATTORNEY GENERAL:Tn tlie "'Ve:-.

;t Iuc1ian Colonies.


y is l)onn<l Mr. ELEAZAR:· arnl Georgetown I have bPen to a few eithel.'

by is a funct'ion to 1n·o1·i<1c b :rn,l founcl the tow11 lig-h tc<l g-as or elcctri.cit�·, aml that '.l Cl))·pnl'ation law.

New Amstetdam n.rc liom,cl to provide ligl1t by ln.w.

Georgetown lias elected to purcha.sc powr:t· from the El.cct1·ic the other hand New Amsterdam has e1ectecl I refer tlle Attorney 75 (!i) of Ordina11cc under the caption "Powe1·s tions of the Tow11 Com1cil" General to section 10 of l!
}lG, which, to Jlay for it out of the t::txes.

ai1r1 func­ reads: Company.

On The lighting or all public buildings, o!

the town and the manufacture , stelling s and streets, roads, thoroughfares bridges and sUJ)ply of gas or electric purposes, pull1i:c limits five miles of the Town Ha.II.

, within the or private of the town, and within a radius of light for all Mr. CANNON: I J1eartily support tl1<> 1,�ea on l1elin tion.

I follo,.v t]l(>ir ting pl:mt.


own liµ·l, regt·ct that Georgetown did not example of insJ-a Hing their If of tl1c Tierbiee sec­ to the i-cc­ y tl,c Mr. DIAS: 'With respect Jnotc<l h l\[mnber for New Anrntci·­ tion of ill<' OJ'(linn11<·<' < hon.

.Tm1ior cln�',, it confen, powp1• to <'Stal1li.sh i-e1·vicc, tory on tbc corporation tllc difference.

makes n.11 hnt it docs not make it obliga,­ on the Town f.'mrnril lif.

(Mi11g an electric to rlo f'o.


Tl1at Mr. ELEAZAR: The law irnys we :11'() bon nd to do it.

The CHAIRMAN: I sltOulcl Attoi•nc:v Oe11eral ap:rces witl1 the view of the H011.

1\-Ir.

niaR or tlle hon.

�Tu.nior :Member for New .Amsterdam.

like the lie to s11y whetl1cr The ftrnctions by the ti.on a re limit eel whiel1 creates or nnything else.

It was 01len to any body or cornpa,ny to apply for a licence to light New Amsterdam.
of the c01·porn �tatute wl1it-h ways does J1ut antho1·ise them to nm tra.mcm·s In the same way or 01m1ilmses.

a compa11y which "'ant to obtain n lig11t must have to 1n·oth1<·e Jice11ce powel' under a l\fornornnc1um tion to uo so.

a company to nm rail­ enable·� 0f Associa­ it.

A statute The CHAIRMAN: We have two of water RUJJ· l\Ieml1er clnties.

of electric at the moment: of water supply and guide<l entirely Government is quite willing me.

O11e is.
O11e is.

I sympathise very any amc11d­ two things i11:flu­ points under discussion one is the question the other is the question of electric lighting.

to exclude tlte taxation ply rnn by the 1\Iunicipa !ity.

That ;.

:eems part of the Municipality's l igl1ting, if On the question by t.l1e strict one ll'Cl'e legal point of view, one woul<l cerU1i11- ,1· refuse to co11sic1er mc11t.

Presently c-11c·c mnch with the hon.


Se11ior for Geo1·get.own, as I consider it an obvious thing for a large town in a Crown Colony 1o start its own electr·ic ligJ1tin of it, aml tl1rreh the benefit of the ratepayers rather tl1an let tl1e profits private company.

There it mig-ltt be saiLl y encouragin t.hat I am deliberatel or l\f1m icipal competition Govermnent against trnde.
The second point that in­ me is that I have not hearcl a fluences single commonsense ·why we should not exempt this electri<­ liglit installation the New Amsterd9m Tow11 Council in appar<'ntl the ah,mnce, offers to do 80.

I should like very mucl1 objections to hear real practical course of that sort.
g factory ancl make a profit out y re<luce the rates for go into tl1e linn<ls y, of 1111y private reason given which was put in l1y of a to a y.:,t �� The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I Mr. LUCKHOO: As far as that i,; agree, sir, with.

the construction entirclr of the Hon.

Mr. l)ias.

All the Ordin­ y on tbe nnce clor� is lo ronfer authorit TC1wn CoUllcil of New Ams.tenlam.

hut they are under 110 oblig-:-itim, to light 'Ne!!'
Amsterdam :with gas, electricity I refer Your Exer.llm1cy There is imposing the obliga­ coneemerl the Orcler-h1-Cou11cil.

Or<ler-in-C01mcil tion to lij!ht all our streets.

m·ge tlrnt we are entitled That licensin g order is still in fore<' I therefore a special to .. to be excl11rlCLl.

8--l!J llluumc 'l'aa; Bill '..:� J .\:-IUARY 1929 -Committee.

SGO The CHAIRMAN: That sccm:s to l>c in fa ,·our.

I asked fur all m·gu.n:cnt a1:guuumls against it.

llucs uot \\'ant it-docs he?

to spealt against The hon.


llicml..ie1· Mr. LUCKHOO: No, sir.

lo it.

'l'hc ouly 1·cason _Mr.

CRANE: As I was apparcully it, sir, now that you have asked oujed.ioJ1s ralher thau us, I sn:y we have no prac­ against for practicaJ legal ohjc<.:llo.

tkal objcdions I have against it i:-; that it i:s trade which is usually carried i11diYitlual:-: Le taxc,1.

'\Vhct·eYcr trade tlH•.v c+ovcn11ue11t would not stantl sterdam.
ougl,t to be tnxetl, I i:s iuciinctl in tl1e way of New Am­ , a Hu ld1tlct· on by lJrivalc t.o giYe l'Clief the law would Ltwal Auil1orilie� I.mt i1 reasons else.

I. think i.J.J.

other part::; of in '1'1·inidad wllat is dune in rcgartl .lo investigate to .Municipal services the Bmpire.

H �rn fiml that it is done and we can adduce practical for tloing it we can amend the Ordi­ ance at a later date.
I cannot remem­ bel' if .it is done anywhere tho .Municipality the town of ;I?ort-of-Spain b:ut I do ;not exempt from Income ,'l'ax it makes on the wate1·.

member ii it is done in South Africa I sug­ eiLhel' but that can be verified.

gest that we leave the matter open, and if 11·u 1ind that we can tlo it without creating any dilliculiies the Ordinance.
with water, think th.at .1::orporation on any profits I cannot re­ we can amend is supplies The ATTORNEY GENERAL: Hav• to the very gi-eat a ot.ltc1· 1·eason.

of tlte Kew Am­ hear a practical ::;upply from lucome Tax.

system iu Ucorgetown (;OllllllU11ities, to ensure a wale1· supply for as generally.

Mr. WONG: I am foth to give a prac.

,The _CHAIRMAN: I should like to importance as I The CHAIRMAN: We want 1:o get a way .

front sympathy am!

get com- 111onsense.


al reason because I 1am ill sympathy with the application sterdam 'l'own Couucil fur exemptioJJ from taxation.

iug 1·eganl 01' water supply in this COllllllllllity wmpareLl !W it.lt think it would be pedectly safo to exempt ·"·ater H is illlportant everywhere.
Here Yery large amount o.f money is being ex11emlctl Ute sc\\'crage well as a ptrre water \Sllpply I may say that in Jamaica the Muni­ duality su J.!pl_y w:1 t<..:r :lll,l exempt from taxation their 11Iunicipal undertakings.

light throughout plietl lliant of the l\:Iuni�lpality 'l'rinidatl, distinction pality in the ,Vest Iurlies It may be a long time its township.

before any other Municipality is able that.


In Georgetown there to undertake tl1at will not give the .Muni­ is a licence for a very long cipality time.

'l'hc lighting of Hie Rtreets New Amsterdam thority nance arnl 11ot umler tl1e Town Council Ordinance.

Mr. W.ONG: It seems to me, sir, that if you exempt the income from the elec­ tric lighting it is an admission Govemrnent iu gc.a­ commtmities, eral., to (ge� _their light at a lower rate than they would from a commercial undertaking.
exteJ1sion allow illuminating to come in free of tax.

That se11c, i;cems to me a very commonsense view 11·hy Income Tax should Ile collected from lighting in is done uncler the au­ of the Electdc Lighting that Colony is sup­ just as it is in l1as the is prepared or the corumm1ity would.

be to oils, such run by a Municipality.


The obvious and logical of be.ing the only Mtmici­ antl New Arnstertlam of 'that princi11le by local companies an opportunity that of the prin1::iple to help Ccl'tain in respect of that lights Electric tltc:v tn·e as kero· Ordi­ The CHAIRMAN: Will hon.

members C:llltf'id cr that statement on its merits?

The CHAIRMAN: 'l'here is a point The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I memuers have thought about.

Two of which I do 11ot know whether hon.


should like, sir, to lrn YC a11 op port 1u1ity the biggest factors in public heal�h a1·e s:;1 Jncomc 'l'ax llilt 1!

)::!9 :!S, JaNu,u:y ,-Oummitlec.

85'.l tion sl1oultl category nut be }llaCed iu the same to tlJC pro,·iso.

in relation The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I alll not a.ware that there is auy country ,vhere they have which we se11d Cousul,; duty.

It is pa.rt of the to pay Customs comity of Kations of thi::; 1n·ovision of Income Tax.

a ntl so it is in re.


;pcct to 0f what is done there is only Mr. WEBBER: I am not in f,n-our following of any ::;larish in oth�r places.

I bclieye one Com;ul here who ret:eil'es emoluments.

eonsuls in New York ha.re to pay Income 'l\1x 1 am against giren exem1Hion part of the world .. 'rhere i,; no harm 111 in the pro,,iso.

putting Consul here lJewg auy law in auy lf British the American despite reguhu· electric installation.

in a town.
in a town.

lt has every ad­ .. ele�tric us to carry out and put in our held g an elec­ of :the pui-e water and ligllt.

·where light a1·e comes ill J!tublic Health Otliee1·::; apt to say that dirt and disease go.

1 luww that was a· great argument out in..,.


fa 1·our of our installin tri<: light supply in tJle ca1litl;ll Gold Coast, and I tJ1ink it iWas a fac­ tor under rather severe _p.epression that enabled own Goverwnent myself I cannot see any disadvantages in­ in excluding a l\iuuicipal stallation vantage from a hea1U1 point of view on its side and it has reduction of the o-r view, and there does not rates poh1t that.
on any 1-:eem to be any probability or even in the date in the near .future future of any competition t1istaut In any case should enterprise.

private private enterprise come along and Gov­ it :ulvisallle ernment co11siller in the in­ terest of the country that it should be encouraged, wlrn.tevcr the Kew Amst.ci·clam me11t from the list of cxemptio11s lie­ cause they b11ilt ,it before these exemp­ t.ions r am therefore ernment to' accept the �menclrnents ancl wa te1· supplies.
electric there would l.,e no reason quite willing for Gov­ for by The CHAIRMAN: I think titi.s is point.

H at .u1y Lime �vhy we should not remove reauy a Ld1liug we .ti.Ill!

that lh-itisJ1 Cuu,;ul,; lm:umc Tax in a Io1·elgu can take the necessary I thiuk lt is l>eLtC'r it sLaatl,;.

to lH·c:,;s on Income Tax were dec::ic1el1 on.

establish­ the IJOint?

electric aJ·c cli.argcu WLWLry, we sLe11s.

tu lea re Lhc daLLSC as At p1·esenL Vue,; Ute hu11.

tlesirc 11ie11LIJc1· Mr. WEBBER: No, s.i.l'.


Quest.ion ''That sul>-clauso or the words at the be· put, and mnended 1,y the insertion 'electi'ic ginlling agreed to, aJ1Cl water supplies' of the six.th line'' (b) be Clause 8 ( e) .-F..xe111ption of emolu­ ments to members of the perma11cnt countries.

Consular of forcigu Services Duties Ordi1m11c:•.

attention Mt.
attention Mt.

WEBBER: I draw Your Excel­ to the table of excmp-­ lency's tions in tl1c Custom.s 1929, in which there is an exemption of arti.des of aJl kinds wl1en impol'te<l for the official of any use of the Consulate foreign a sin1Har articies customs to His Majesty's ishoulcl Consulate like �o know whether this exemp- pri\'ilege is accorcled of such foreign by the laws and country or place therein."
that or place; "provided in respect couutry I of similar Clause 8 (11)_.-Bxcmpliun of im:olllc of al\y cluu.

_Mr.

WEBBER: What is the object o.f ,md it l lh·e encour­ and disfavour.

o:' a this exemption·?

Some u.f these clubs a,re nm at Yery great profit.

I view it with great appl'ehension Aftel' all a dub is a comb.iuatiou few men.

I can umlerstanc agcmeJLt or eduratitm, of thl'ift should not be left in this wide way.
I <lo not �vant to sugge::;t a want of 1:0111itlc11c-r. lmt it throws the onus on the Uo,·e1·nor­ •in-Council, fnir.

OH what ground these clubs exemplion1 deletion.

rcaso.11s for the exemption occur to me at the moment.
f do not like to move its 'l'here might be some good whkh do not which I do noL think is claim Mr. CRANE: I am llot movlng amendments lmt I confess that I never sa,r this ex- Ii.ere for obvious reasons, in the Goven1or-in-Counci1, t:,t;� Income 'l'a:JJ Bill 28 J.DlUARY i929 -00111,in'ittee.

854; ed.

too wit.Le, 01· recrea­ , n.::sL1·1ctelL to athletic but it, I could understand, emption ucfore now.
It seems to me th.di "any clu1J "· �s a little lf it i::; tion clu\)s would take in social clubs which arc a luxu1-y some profits.

:stricterl clubs.

I think it might be re­ athletic aml in some cases make hand­ to re�eation, or sport _The COLONIAL SECRETARY: l so�ial in this com1try.

There a1·u .a.nu which has been left pUl'· c:omii­ or sport, clubs, l)e exempt and whic,.
think the sub-clause posely ,,ide to meet tllc special tions of club,s some clubs for recreation are to a certain cxtcut sltould obviously I think every memlJer would wi:sh to ham e�wmpt.

time it would be -yery difficult tinguish, established, whether they or recreation cau clubs.

The Council very well leaYe it to the Govern.or-in­ Council exempt and the reasons 01 tlle Uouucil At the same to dis­ having regard to how clubs an.

: to decide which clulm should bJ for r:.o doi'11g.
are social The CHAIRMAN: lion.

lllemlJcr:s, it jn principle at a guat here.

club should get ofI In­ ap1)ears; are straining It may be vei·y atlmi.1"aule that a sporting tome 'l'ax, lmt let us look at it from a practical point of view.

What is the minimum prnfit tha,t a club must make in order to be chal'ged shoul,l question.

that Income Tax'?

I like to ask the 'fl·easurel' Clause 10 (1) (b).-Deductions alloJ?
:• ,Mr. HUMPHRYS: I should like to and lessees and fees paid by lessees in respc�t of Crown lands.

they a1·e ,intended to be in­ but I: !Io not think it is quite be clear whether this sub-clause in­ cludes rents aud licensees lpreslllllc cJuclcd, clear that they are.

1 am thll1king, for instance, of licensees timber lands, bauxite lands, .balata lands and so on.

These are lands held by tenants of a .

:sort, in respect of which rents and fees are paid, Very think ihey should be excluded.
sums some ,of these licen­ consideralile l:iccs have to pay.

rerhaps the hon.

Attorney Geucml can eulighten to whether that was the intention Government.

us as of and I: pf The ATTORNEY GENERAL: This to expenditure :which sub-clause 1·cfers is ;wade for the purpose of acquiring if a man l"or instance, an iT��ome.

rented Crown land merely to live on it J.ie would 11ot lJe acquiring ancl there would be no exemption.
But so far as the acquisition is concerned respect I <lo not know [What fees are paid; most of the charges in respect of , Crown lands are in the form of rent.

of an ;mcome any rent ,which he pays in of the land would be exempted.

an income The CHAIRMAN: Perhaps the Com­ of Lands and Mines can ex­ of fees.

missioner plain the question Mr. MILLARD: 'l'hc mininnllll pro­ .fit, :;;ir, -�s one dollar.
The CHAIRMAN: \Vell, :what is the , it is a to say that the profit club or a social club, should profit made by a club durh1g I venture general a ycai:?

made by any club, whether s1wrti.11g be spent in that year its members, ·ment is concerned at all to the total deletion cl:.rnse.

wllich ,is hoanling up spend it for the benefit of its members.
of this sub­ I;t only means that a club so that as far as Govern­ for the service of money lias to there is no objection Question "That this sub-clause be deleted" put, and agreed to.

Nl.r.

MULLIN (Commissioner Claim )icence Lands and Mines,): fees are really rent.

The question that should also arises is whether toyalties be exempt.

They would not come under th� .�ategvry of rent.

of.

The CHAIRMAN: Sub-claus e (h) re• to rent.


fers specifically Mr. HUMPHRYS: :i\fay I suggest It is to add after .the amendment?· word " income " the words " and the re11ts, lessee or lice11see fees and royalties of Crown or Colonr.

paid by any an 81:il:i l11w111c 'l'ax Bill 28 JANUAlW 1!)2!)

-Committee.

S5G laud."


If a man occupies land under or timber a numue1· as a grants b.e is in the same position tenant:- of claim licences Mr. WONQ: I had not lost, sight of tliat fact and I maintain ment is sound.

:that my argu­ Clause 15.-Deduction for wife.

The CHAIRMAN: Rents are deduct­ ed, not fees.

Royalty is certainly under (b) and the question included it is advisable wl1ether not is or not.

Mr. MULLIN: I do not think it would be advisable.


Mr. CRANE: Sub-clause (i) provides as may be fo1· "such other deductio11s by any rule matle umler this proscribed Ordinance."

would have full })ower to make rules to meet special cases the operation that might arise during of tho Ordinance.

The Governor The CHAIRMAN: I think that sug­ would meet a good many criti• gestion cisms.

Question �' That this sub-clause as of the Bill" put, and staml part printed agreed to.
Clause 10 (1) (g).-Rates and taxes on immovable property.

Mr. ELEAZAR: I am goiI1g to crave to urge what 1 relative to tha,t which is in for a11y dependent tion I am asking for in Englaml indulgence .

That is to ask that a whose income from docs not reach $�40 per an• are given tl1e con Government's did yesterday similar provision in England should be given operation the deduc­ some consiueration.
Besides tion for a wife there should also be a deduction of the husuaml or wife, incapacitated by old age or iniinnity, all sources 11.um.

These parties sidera and we cannot do better than the in giving these deduc­ Mother Country tions here.

My suggestion such a dependent be $120 per anmun.

It is well known that in this community a good many on their sons motht?.rs m·e dependent for support and in some cases the mother-in-law.

morals, feelings.
morals, feelings.

filial to dP,Stroy :you will fil1d an indigent father wl10 could not get succour from the one who is better This is not a house of will do notliing Very seldom mother or the deduction should but Government off in the family.

is that for Mr. WEBBER: It has been'suggcsted oc• that the rental value of a property cupied by the 10wner should not be in· he has to pay eluded in income rates ancl taxes which are pra!

!tically rent.
!tically rent.

I take it that an owner can claim exemption on the house he is living in.

because Mr. MILLARD: It is qualified clause 10 (1) and would not pe subject to deductions.

by Clause 14.-,Deduction in case of resi• dents in the '.Colony.

Mr. MILLARD: The hon.

Senior yes­ Essequebo that Govern• ty of Member for South-East terday made a suggestion the possibili ment might consider under this clause on deductions putting the hon.
a percentage member must have lost sight of the fact that the deduction and varies according basis.

I think to the income.

is dependent on is in full sympathy The CHAIRMAN: I do not think the hon.

member need labour tha,t qucs­ iion.

Goverrunent that.

The question towards tical side.

:The hon.

member suggests has an income of less if t11e dependent than $240 a year the man or wo1mm on whom the individual should be allowed $120.

That is the proposition?


relief is the JJrac­ that is clepenclont in respect of Mr. ELEAZAR: That is the proposi­ tion, sir.

The CHAIRMAN: Will the hon.

mcm­ l1er limit the number of dependents?

Mr. ELEAZAR: Yes, sir, not more than four.

Mr. WEBBER: l\fay I in rrnpporting that point otlt, as I ondearnttred yestercl:l.y, that consideration to do ought to 857 Income Tax BW '.

!S J.<1.XUAUY 1!

)2\) · -Coinniittee.


S58 be given to the case of a lavdul child over lG years of age who is illfirm1or a cripple OJ.'

may be an imbecile.

plead so much for mothers-in-law depewlents.

I do not but The CHAIRMAN: That rather more comes under clause Hi.

We a1·e now discussii1g of .. age and in­ fll'lnit:y reads:- the question The English Act combined.
0 If the claimant proves tltaL he main­ tains at his own expense any person, be­ of llis or of his wife wllo is ing a relative by old age or jnfirmity from incapacitated himself, or llis or his w ifoe's maintaining widowed mother, whether incapacitated no.t, and being a person whose total income fifty from all sources does not exceecl pounds a year, Ile shall be entitled to a.

· deduction pounds in respect .of each person whom he so mainta.
!ns, and a like deduction r of a daimant who, by reason of old age or infirmity, the services of a daughter resident with and maintained b:y: him or her.

ds compelled to depend upon shall be made in the case of twenty-five or _'.rhat is about the same rate as the I should like to hon.

member suggests.

h""JlOW what the disadvantages of it an!.

Does the hon.

Colonial Treasurer sider that it would affect the returns very much?

c:O!l­ Mr. MILLARD: The deductions are in this Bill.
'l'hat is the I liave to urge in thl' I haYe nothing to very liuernl only consideration matter, otherwise say against member.

I coultl estimate on the reYenue.

the proposal of the hoi1.

time, not:, at the 1nesent at aJl what the effe<:t wouh!.

b,· Mr. WEBBER: I should like to ask sir, ·with respect ,to the de­ for a wife.

Take the case of a a questioll, duetiou Jew, a Jlohammedan ct,mes along and says ihe has a wife.
Is lte goi.11g to be 1·equiretl evidence 'tha t the ,;woman er just a statutory is his wife?

or a �urk, ;who to produce _declaration The CHAIRMAN: He has to produce if called on.

If he makes a dedamtion evidence, statutory or in his form 1mt down that he was man-ied he would be called 11 pon to prove it, as the In­ come '.!

'ax f�ctly justified found that marriage would then t ie£ 11mler the penalty clause.

would be per­ i.J1 doing.


lf it was of lie liall not a certi:fic:ate his marriage he lie liable to all the peual­ Commis�ioue1· or registered Mr. WEBBER: H is just the ques­ bY, that I of marriages a re only regist.ererl of marriages.

have to be registered tion of 1·egistratiou wiECl1 to refer to.

In this Colouy there :ire two classes The Chris­ tian marriages virtue of tl1e law, but th<' Ea;;t Indian under a marriages fo1·m of Jaw.

I would like to certain if ,1.


-fow or know ·what woulu happe11 a Turk c·ame along anrl saicl J1e hacl a is no macl1i11er:v in the wife.

There Colony where ,mch a person can regis· ter his marriage Ull· clcr thr.

law.

I want to know wl1etl1er suc11 a. m:in wonlrl lw exf'lnrlNl.

and bring himself The CHAIRMAN: 1Doc;;n·t the hon.

rnemhcr think we might leave those en i;es to lie cle:1 lt with" as they come up?

·we have nl1 tJ1e law to den.I with them.


Mr. MULLIN: vVltat I suggest is this Colony filial relations tliat in affect per,:ous who would not pay In­ come !Tax.

sert-- Mr. WEBBER: I think we might in­ The CHAIRMAN: I :find it difficult to in respect the sta,tement of reconcile witl1 _for dependents filial responsibility the fact that there are 803 occupants of of whom the Alms House, one-third of New come from is Government Amsterdam.
t· to draft an nmen<lrnen quite prepared to be considered The CHAIRMAN: I iam afraid the member is proposing I do not 1want to introduce-the J101!.

"·}1ich East Indian obligation-i n this Bill.

'l'he Income Tax Commissioner power to call on a man, who states that he i;; marrit>rl, to prove tliat he is mnr­ cause to !lo so he ried.

�nd if 11c has wii' no doubt clo iL A man wl10 makes the neighbourhood after the inten-al.

(Laughter).

something l1as S5!)

Income Ta;c Bill �s J.1.xu.1.1w 1!)2!)


-Committee.

860 in his Income Tax return well known :i. statement di-en, is liable to be called upon to prove it, cnt amongst the East h1dians.

and if he cannot prove it satisfactorily ently it will 1not exclude the adoption he is liable to a very severe penalty, child by the fathel'.

of au illegitimate so that thi.s Income Tax Bill should.

do of towa1·ds so:11Ptlling truth in this Colony.


chil• cm;tom of a:1uptiug prentl­ which I think is especially Appar­ Mr. CRANE: It doeB not seem so, the promotio11 Clause Hi.-Derluction for chih1t·cn.

Mr. -CRANE: I beg to J110Ye that at tlrn P11rl of 1d::mse lG there should be adde<l the amendment 'given 11otice : of wllich I liani at the com­ of that year, or who, (2.)
If the claimant proves that for the of he has the custody at his own expense any year of assessment and maintains child who is under the age of sixteen years at the commencement if over the age of sixteen of tha(t year, .is receiving such mencement and that as aforesaid, instruction full-time he nor any other individual is en­ neither titled of tlle in respect same child under the foregoing of this section provisions other individual duction, linquished entitled deduction his.
or this ordinance, is entitled to such a de­ has re­ he shall be that that ,other -iticlividual as if the child were a child of or under any of the other to a deduction his claim thereto, of the child to the same provisions in respect or, if any I thillk I said yesterday tJiat this is anu.

bona fide has It docs not give of illegitimacy It m.ernl:r enables or a man the an iuoffcnshc clause.

rii-c to the que:stion otl1lll''-'i,c.


who genuinely custody of a child for whose mainten­ ance lie is responsible f1uct tody ;is a fact t:hat can be ascertained Vel·y :readily will accept the {amenclment.

and I l1ope Government of that C'hil<l.

io1t in respect to claim a de­ Crns­ w:ill be Govcunnent l,at, of course, �it-, guided by the Yiews of its legal adviser.

that the father of an l must confess child might adopt that il1egitimate dlild.
hut is not goiug to Government 1 ax the man if he boaa Jtde spends his money on that cl1ild.

The CHAIRMAN: Exactly.

'rhat will be brought in after the ,,mendment iuterval.

amendment, Clnuse lG, to whidt there is an will now become 16 (1).

a year; but a child lrnvi11g The ATTORNEY GENERAL: 'fhe of de­ his child.
On further to think that that amendment was to it would be a the right the general principle is not given is if a does not exclude where the father is made by reason of legal In England the only reason object of my :first amendment limit the decluction 1Yholly maintains examiliation <ltiction cbligatiou.

why the deduction child has an income of its own ·of £40 or 11p1Yards a :::rl.iolarship of a parent to a deduction.

Yenture neetl not be made because from the genera.I i1eviation law.
I propo5e that the word "who'' in· tJ1e i-;h:th line be deleted, anrl at the end of the seron<l the words '' 01· of the husband of the mother where she i.s married anu.

living with!

her hnsband" be insertecl.

for that acldition i:-; Llia t Jaw of this Colony, following- Dntch Imv, a mother makes no bastard and an illegitimate n1othH.

'l.

'hat In rl;fuse 20 n should lie, :mncle.

provisio a wife's income and a husband'!-i are joined together, child preYions would be covered inserted.
The 1·cason by the Roma.n­ being so it.

is rir,-ht that ancl :if a wife has a child is heir of tl1P paragTaJ)h to marria!

!e principle income of The CHAIRMAN: GovcumH,<>t is in favour of the principl e of it.

The ques­ tion is J1ow far we can make the Bill k11ave proof.

�r.

MILLARD: It is a question of a fact, but I do not see any <lecl:ning difficulty in a case of in ascertaining doubt whether that fact was a fact.
The CHAIRMAN: Government will make an allowance cer­ for the t:tinly Question, "That thie dauseas amencl­ c1l �tancl part of the Bill " put, aiid agreed to.

I therefore fl1e Ca!

'i� by the �Yorc1s to he SGl lnc:omc '.l'ci.>J Hill '.

!� .T., :--t;.,n-..: 1!

)29 -Go11imittee.

S62 M1·.

ELEAZAR: I ask Government the allowance for each child froru $14.-1 £27 with respect to sec its way to increase for children to, say, £50 to the :first child and £:17 for It used to be in England up the others.
to last year £37 in the case child and At the ,3resent 1·espec-l res11ect go so .far as that, but where a wage­ ha.<;; an income to tax be must eai·ner $12 a month on <>,, ··' speml more th:111 child.

of the ft1·!

':1· of the second.

tirn<:> the rate is £fi0 h1 chilcl and £50 in "'v\Te don't want to to the second.

of the first 'l.

'11c Starnling Rules and Orders were to enable tbe Hills to be read suspended the first time.
The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that "A Bill to provide charging sage of cattle •rrall'' of tolls in respect be read the first time.

of the pas­ over the Rupunuui Cattle for the Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

put_ n111l agi-ced to.

Question Bill rea.cl the .first time.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

member Govern­ a very moving appeal.

has 1w1.<1e ment has gone as far as it can legiti­ mately go.

by allowing dependents Ulink we will loave it at that.

Clau::,,e 17 .-DeJuction �tc.


concessions to aml other children and I life insurance, in respect of (C011sclidation) The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I U('/!

to move tha.1: "A J3ill to amend the 1Ii11ing 1!1�0.

11y Yestrng· Gouncil the power to make rer,rulations by 1.he l"aicl O,<linanee GoYernoi- the first time.

in the Governor-in­ and Court of Policy" on th':'!

be read con-ferrecl Ordinance.

Mr. GONSALVES: Wouldn't you I macle sir, the suggestion "-itl1 with :·eganl ro insurance to a c-llild '?
In some case� a r.1a11 hif; child :incl not his wife.

�onsider, yesterday Tespect has insured Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

lJncstiou put, and agreed to.

Bill 1·cad the ,:first time.

The CHAIRMAN: I do not tl1i11k Government is preparerl to accept that.

'£he Committee adjourned for the The COLONIAL SECRETARY: 1 Leg to move that "A Bill to amend the 1929, with Custon,s respect oils'' Duties Ordinance, be read the first time.

to the rates of duty on certain lu1H:lwo11 interval.

'l.

'ltc-Council resumed.


Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

Question put, and agreed to .. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS.

Hill read the first time.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: In with tlie permission accordance to me this mor11ing-.

the followin� Hill1=:: grante'1 I hcg to introcluc-c> Notice given that ut the next meeting of 1.he Conndl it would be moved that the Bill"' he read the second time.

Sccret12ry.)
Sccret12ry.)

(Colonial A Bill to providi:: for the chal•ging ot of cattle in respect .tolls over the Rupununi of the passage Trail.

Cattle A Bill to amend the Mining (Consolida­ INCOME TAX BILL.

in Ult> 1920, by vesting tion) 0rdina.nce, -Governor-in-Council the power 1.o make con­ regulations and Court of ferre,d on the Governor '.Pol.icy.

by the s::i,id Ordinance A Bill to amend the Customs Duties ·Ordinance, of duty on certain oils.
1929, with respect to the rates 'fhe Council rcsolYecl mittee and resumed consideration the BiH to illlJJOse to reg11late into Com­ of 1 , a tax on incomes and thereof.

the collection itself Clause 21.-Rates of Tax.

863 Income 'l'ax BW :LS J.,xuAn 1929 -Committee.

5GJ, at a The Bill of in J·amaica consiu.ers be on the basis Goverumeut the tax in Jamaica while under the rates that the Customs tarill ,as high as they could be.
will not reconsider removed and an lncome to our small populatioit, Mr. HUMPHRYS: lam goi.ng to ask and fair.

I do nuL high this year.

I have by the Editor of the of it but I want to get at equitable back in another form to ue to what Government to he too as a whole :this super tax has been that the Bill of Entry a super tax levied and at a time when that the Customs duties and in doing so .

[ wish it to that I have 110 to put any dilliculty b I am heartili try 'l'a:x: had been .

removed.
removed.

whether .hi1t r.r 'fa:i,.. is not tile Customs tariff.

the scale on which Iucomc 'l'ax is to ;.rhat might be called a mere quibble, be charged, but I will ask the hon.

Colonial .Treas­ be dearly Ullderstood urer to remember desil-e whateve1· 'l'a:x: was in itself the ,va.y of the Ordinance.

time of cme1·geucy in rnppo1·t it.


wa:s realised aometlling were already think these rates are uureai:lOnably If that ;Bill of Entry '£ax-a super ta� having regard in itself-is but I find ou comparison with the 'l'ax is now put in its place, that In­ Jamaica n1tes that they are very much come :Tax is also a super tax.

The Bill higher.

I think the rates may remain o1' .Eut1·y 'fax was proved.
so far as the small amounts a.re concern­ onerous on the community ed, but those on the higher scale will and therefore be rnry hard on men who have a very hl'o11ght large income aml 11houlcl applied of the iamaica rates.

On a chargeable to be the section of tile c;onununity that income of $13,000, can lJest afford to pay.
I do not think, would be $573.50 sir, that t:here can be much questioning for th is Colony it would be $82.S; on of the statement $18,000 it would be $S7� in Jamaica and has been increased $1,404 lierc; on $2:!,S00 it woulcl be here an article , and $1,980 here: $1,173.50 " �_omruercial on $J-!.�OO it woul(I be !f':1,7SO here and �uaiyses the C,u11t.ows onlt $:!r .>0 in ,Jamaica: on $-.l(i,80O a list for this year.

He has compiled bu: in Jamai..� in wbicl:.


he shows that there is a very $5,580 in British Guiana.

la1·ge seen that the rates here weary th-: Council amounts arc consiclel'ably liSt in detail, Jamaica, cuits, small and large.

lf ;.

;omc smoked fish, pickled were made on incomes-r�rnging-from beans, $9,600 upwards I think it would be ap­ have all bten increased.
preciated many of fuese articles the community innease1l However, I am putting ticles suggestion_ creased, increase the Income Tax that is now proposed.

In taxing luxuries higher under tbe Customs tari:II you are already putting a tax on people who, according to Gov• ernment, can best afford to pay.

Tb.is Income Tax therefore as a super, super tax.

After a U,JJon careful the .


Editor of the " Commercial has this \t-0 say: yesterday I would have something subject in the Committee stage, and I therefore snpporting 1:1peaker.

portunity terday of the hon.

Colonial wlum he pointed to call Income Ta:x: a "super tax."
He that the elective ;;t.ated Uc.use harl 1Said that there was no re­ mission on the Customs tariff and in reply pointed what the re­ sults of the ch�ges above will be to Gov­ who ernment eventually ar­ in­ we have got to <Consider this in relation While a good that have been migllt be termed .luxury this as bis­ put such articles bran, cheese, on this Bill, sir, I stated that to say on this This, I think, to reply to fue remarks yes­ or-to the consumers It is also dilli- more than in to all incomes fish, salmon, and refined sugar Mr. WONG: In my geueral and be more acceptable.
by the b'ig-gcr :financiers the remarks of the last it would be $3,093.50 Review " in which he of the situation pea:s, saccharine out that it was wrong have the greatest Lanll as ilupo,-,"d are justifiably out that the Bill of En- by rehearsing I am not going to and therefore but that applies pay the duties.

;might be looked on the highest to the imposition of is a suitable Treasurer, reuuct.iou lt is difficult to estimate increase.
,butte1·, side of this forward that pleasure analysis revenues tinned fish, remarks It would ue Review ,, soap, in op­ i 11 t:ili::i Inwmc 'l'aJ; Hill 28 J Ai'{ U ARY 1!)2!)

-Committee.

SG6 cult to judge whether the benefits of the lower scales of duty (if any) which may accrue to the consumer will offset the in• creased specific duties and so maintain the cost of living arnund the present We are rather inclined not to think they will figure.

would be a very dlfilcult Government.


job to persuade Mr. WONG: I am )Willing try, sir, to persuade elective to have a members.

l think that should effectively dis­ you consiuer the r:iise too steep?

The CHAIRMAN: From w}lat income tb!lt any re­ through obtaining I believe the increase of I .s financial arnl "·c all that the elective I claim the electiv e namely, bas already in Jamaica.
by the Cvwniul side of the the amount tha,t to get from Income in the scale of the $2,400 and G per then that the the Customs and other then I submit that this Income _Mr.

WONG: J<'roru the seconu.

$1,200, sil-.

In this list which I have prepared I propose that the third rate (4: per cent.)

should apply not to the third $1,200 as propo:;ell J;ill but on U1e iiri;.t cent.

on the next $:t,4.UO; rates should ue 7 per cent.

on $4,800, 12 per cent.

on !)

per cent on $!l,UOO, f�12,000, and 20 16 per cent.


on $24,000, pcl" cent.

on all mnounts over and above that sum.

It caunot be argued by the hon .. Colonial 'freasurGr Yision now of the propose· ,-,ltes will mean any disturbance b,ecause caltulations, he Jias calculated Tax he has more tha tt once already aclmittccl, is a mere guess.

There are no mea.

<t by that on this scale which he can estiJnatc or on some other scale he wil.l get this or some other amount.
While we ex­ pect to get a certain �a, consiu.erable Income Tax for this year is really in­ tended to be a ''try out,'' flicting muuity to try it out on these high rates :is regards sir, I have said enoi1gh, to the other Electives help me to persuade some revision potie of the contention 'l'1·easurer House _is wrong in calling the Income 'l'ax a 'Super tax imposed at a time when iudirec::tl taxation was just about as high as it can IJc put.
Now, sir, if tlle Collllcil i,; willing to accept the statement which side of ;the House has proved, that we arc already 1myiJ1g very high taxation tariffs, 'fax scale is too high.

As I claimed is too sharp.

yesterday, The last :Speaker quoted the figures the same can be said in regard to Trini­ <lad and Barbados.
The scale now be­ ing imposed iu this Colony is very much higher than in the three countries men­ that and it must be rememtered tioned, the Customs tariff in those countries is a mere bagatelle co1111iared rates that we are called upon to pay in this Colony.

I have prepared a scale IJut I do to Government, for submission not know whetl1er it is worth while at this stage to sumit it before we lrnow whether Government at all 'fhe scale only the mntter.
to reconsider deals with the higher i11comes where the rate of increase So far us I am aware in the lower is lower than grades the scale proposed There is no in Trinidad justification we i:;houhl so sharply :1s to ,Tamaic:i. pointed mere bagatelle Shall I trouble persuade have mercy on these hare Olll" uand o:f paupc1·s, w,)rld knows nothing at all about, ancl ii we have to pay a heavy Income Tax these paupers a.re bound to suil'er, or we ourselves.
As a matter of fac::t every mn II who J1a,; a 11ytl1 lias a bnll{] of paupers of whom nobody knows anything The CHAIRMAN: If yqu can per­ suade tho Council.

I am afraid it Mr. ELEAZAR: We don't hope to you, sir, bnt we ask you to as I out, the Customs tariff is a and it is in­ too heavy a burden on the com­ compared with ours.

sir?

the Council, and Jamaica.

why in the highest rich men.


We all of whom the exceed tlie rntes in Trinidad, grades our rates I think, it ing- l ikc au income amount of revenue about, and if we can and Barbados, know it to · i so, amount I may say­ is so very sharp.

might be made.

is inclined the highest incomes.

increase ·where, with tl1e and I lea.ve to carry on a11d Government that Sli7 Income 'J.

'ax Bill 28 JANUARY 1929 -Uommillcc.

StiS Professor DASH seconded.


help the rich men like the one who has just sat µown I ask you to help them in this ,vay.

That is all I want to say.

ti ues lion "'l'hat this clause as stand part of the Bill" put, :unemled nncl agreed to.

it should be "or by cou11:;cl if not both, becau:se he J1as (3) appcaliug thir1Jc pel'son Clause 4.3 (:.I) .-Appeals against that ''every to get $250,000 ..:.ssessments.
a long way off the mark, Mr. ELEAZAR: Sub-clause The CHAIRMAN: I do not think ;we a1·c really going to get much further in the debate on this scale.

As continuing the hon.

Member Essc­ for South-East quebo says, we a.re making a shot in the dark.

We do not know how much we prescribes as arc going to get.

We have estimated shall attend before the Judge in 1>er­ 11car as we possibly can, which is s:.m."
I possibly or solicitor," that wa are g{1i11g: to prepare papers which Will be sub­ from this Income Tax, and if we mitted eventually to the Full Court.

It i>taxt off on too low a :scale and is hardly to be expected lowet this :,;1.:ale can do that for hims.elf that sum.

And are we goi.J1g to be tho insertion allowecl coun::;el fol' the yCal' to make it up'!

l tlon-'t think who wants to appeal might get assist­ so.

We shall be again turning ance before he goes before the Judge.

of our revenue.
of our revenue.

to do is trn�reave it as it stands and sec how it •rks out.

If it succeeds .

"l,000,000 protluc.ing then we might very :well consider reduc­ ilig the scale next year.

I am not imp ssed at all by the hon.

member's clai .

that it is a super, super ta.x.

Ile May I ask wbn 1 qttO :d some journal.

is 1>i1e journal?

Mr. WEBBER: My colleague has been !t little in coming to .

(3).

I desire to call attention to the provision to t.liat when sub-clause of.
up short I think the ouly thLtg of the words " or by so that a persort Thie CHAIRMAN: We will go ,back in of $2G0,0OO we may Hot realise to charge a seconcl or solicitor'' pre!'.

!ipitate that a laynuui and I suggest Income 'rax instead in (1).

(3) is disposed Mr. WONG: The Chamber of Commerce journal.

The CHAIRMAN: Quite an unbias­ The 'lues­ ed joumal that.

(Laughter.)

tion is ":That clause 21 stancl 1n1rt of t·he Bill."

Agreed to.

and Clause 35 (2) .�Government !Municipal Employers employees.
officerR to supply partic11.lars.

to make returns relating to Thie ATTORNEY GENERAL: This to attendance, entirely is no necessity e. As the appeal has l'he attemlancc clause relates not to appearanc to be heard by a Judge in Chambers for a solicitor tl1ere or of the per­ counsel.

son is regarded The presence facilitate:-; with :.ppcals tinct i::ulvantage self to be present of.
disposed mysplf I found it a to the individual to have the matter of the pel'son greatly the matter and in dealing as being very dis­ him­ necessary.

Mr. MILLARD: I move that in sub­ in the sccoml line, tho dause (2) the words ''of a:ssessmcnt'' between the wo1·ds ''yca1·'' be inserted and "prepare'' words ''during· Jireceding-'' after the word inse1·ted "hi.Jn" in the second line, and the word '\toes'' line of paragTaph dause.
to "did'' in the fourth (1) (a) of the sub­ the year immctliately ma l'l,� tli.e1·c desires ;1w allowNl altered Mr. ELEAZAR: I ;appreciate the re­ but of the lion.

Attorney Gcueral, why a person who is ,uo 1·eason should not to appear by eouHscl to ilo so.

Mr. WEBBER: With respect to sub­ clause (1) one of ·my constitutcnts written me to say: has �(j:J lil(·u,uc '1.

'a.,· JJi({, 28 J.1.

:rn.\RY 102!)

--Ooinm'ittee.


870 I suggest should appoint a appeals without To be forcecl to Government Board of three to consider expense to app!icaniG.

take one·s e;,u;e to the Supreme Court will ancl a hardship be costly solicitor and counsel paid for.

Proposals this tax should be as elastic for first few ye::i.rs until people bec_ome acg_uainte<l with t of ; employmen Ile would have to its working .
of Government u11der as possible Mr. WEBBER: All those things said but General appeal to to oilicials to the lay business man feels that by the 110n ... 'i..tlomey a l:1w.rci-aml prol.Jably they do not :appeal man.

The lay business ihis case can possibly be more sym­ by another or a pathetically handled couplQ busiJ1ess men ..

It is not every man who can face .

!l Judge.

I hope Gov­ cmment .will see what· best can be done.
There is no doubt that fol' the tirsL will be p.. goo<.l cleal u1itil l){JOple thl'ee years the1·e get in the tl.al'k of gl'oping to the Ordinance, inclmling accur-;tomccl themselves.

When a tho Commissioners person assessed of opiu­ has a difierence lo forte him iua with the Commissiouer, direc-tly .

has to fulfil certain arnl even if he could ha mile the:;e for­ malities am still fees to be paid for competent I earnestly that have been made to me .

filing.
filing.

I do not feel myself to move an amenclment and commend the representations upon a J·udge :in Chambers he legal fonnalities, himself tllere etc.

appeals, The 'CHAIRMAN: I am afraid Gov­ a at any to install ernment is not prepared Board of that sort, at present rate, though it may pi-ove desirable in the future.

I congratulate member though pn t;!1c good case he has made out.

He has missed his vocation; he ought to have been a lawyer.

(Laugh• ter.)

the hon.

Cla.11sc 4.3 (11) .


-Rules governing i'v1r.

DIAS: I may J_Joiut out tllat .Lu tV) the draftsman evidently sul.H.

:lause ha<l .i..r.l min<l the question avpeal as it ;is there providecl costs of the appeal shall be in the dis­ c1·etion and shall be a sum fixed by the Judge."

appeal hcai-iug the of the ,Jll(lg-c of tosts of that "the Mr. ELEAZAR: I wish to ask whcth· e1· tlte Rules Colll1llittee might not be rule?
I clo giYen power not know if there is �rny reas 1 for leaving them to the Chie.f Justice.

to make these The CHAIRMAN: I think rules arc Unless the mere legal tcdmicalit.ies- hon.

rnember wants to push very strongl:y of very great importance.

it does not seem to lie the point Mr. ELEAZAR: It is not of very sir, except that the great importance, Rule Committee is there.

woulcl be that Tl1,a ATTOR[\IEY I GE[ Ji::Rf-\l: '1 11oi11t.
1 .i.iei-e '1'.IJ.e Oollllllis­ will necessarily who have not :the working ii:; uuc imporLant sioner and his oilice be· come more familiar .with the Onlinance than persons of it, and the ditliculty from a a person would be appealing Comm.i::;sioucr.who with the was familiar to iu<.livh.luals Ordinance with it.

On the other hand familial'ity in Chambers is by no appearance 1n-oteuure means an expensive and the Judge would ll:we the decisions of other Judges to guide him.
I have known of ma11y cases whei-e an indi­ vidual has arguetl llis ca8e himself he can do that just as ·well uefore a Judge.

In any case he will have to i.n writing aud he state his reasons to a better tribunal.

will be appealing who have Ho and Clause .49-Collection and repaymeut of tax.

_Mr.

WEBBER: No provision is made in clause 4!)

to enable a man to pay his ius.tal­ or quarterly tax in half-yearly ments as I think is clone in England.
'fhe tax is immeuiately though there i� a clause which that i.:f the tnx is not paiu within the v1·escrihed charged on the ;irnount some t1ifficnll.y uetwce11 er and the payer.

may be there might be the Uommission­ a perce11tage provides payable.

.Al· periocl The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I call the hon.

member's 62 (1) (c).

clause attention to B-ill S71 l11wm1., '.1.

'ci;u 28 J"A�U.\UY 1!

)2f) -Uummillcc.

S7:J Mr. WEBBER: I hope Government will give us an undertaking vh;i.on will be macle.
that pro­ The CHAIRMAN: I want to do what­ ever fa convenient That is why we leave it under the rules.

or most practicable.

to bf any movable or immovable 1>rope1·ty or in trust for any mem.ber of his family shall nevertheless be liable to be taxed !tad not been made, as H such transfer unless the Commissioner that was not Ulade, su<:11 or assignment for the pm·pose ol evacling· any tax or part thereof imposed by this Ordinance.

is satisfied transfe;· and Clause 55.-Falsc statements returns.
Professor DASH seconded.

Mr. MILLARD: 1 more that for Q!1e::;ti 1.1n put, and tu.

ag1·eed clau.-;e 55 the following lJe substituted: Mr. HUMPHRYS: I do not know 5.5.

Any person who (1)(a) for the purpose of obtaining or repay­ deduction, rebate, reduction men1t •in respect of ta.x for himself or for any other person, or any it is the intentiou or Uo\'l!.

n­ who will a:;i;h;t \\"ltet.her mcut to havn a11y officer 1;erso11s who :ue anxious lo p1·cpare their rcturus a:, eal'ly as po:;siulc.
shoulcl lil,c 1.o lrnow whetht·r will lie given by Ute hon.

Colonial s or Government pro­ urer or his .oflicer pur­ po:,e to appoint-someone for that pose.

I notice that eveu in Jamaica ll1<>y have it there .. _(Laughter).

J assistance .Treas­ (2) aids, abets, assists, counsels, incites Mr. WEBBER: I have a commtmic-a ­ (b)in any return account or par­ made or furnished with 1·efer­ ticulars ence to tax.
knowingly makes any false statement or false representation, or or induces another person (a)to ma.Im or deliver any false 1·e­ under <this Ordi­ tu.

1 or statement na.ri.P �n· (b) to keep or propare any false any .or pa.rticulars accounts income on which tax der this Ordinance concerning is payable un­ .

shall be liable on summary conviction a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars 01· lo imprison111cnt term not ·exceeding wHb hard labour for a six months.
to Professor DASH see;omle(l. liuestion put., antl agreed to.

Clause 59 .-'l'rausfer of pl'operty to eyacle taxation.
Mr. MILLARD: l move that tlw followJ11g 11cw clause be substitutec1: 69.-(1) Any person who since the first oi· assignmeul has reduced his income by day of January, nineteen hundred and lwenty-eight, t11e transfer nr iJlllflOHLblc any member of llis family shall neverlhe· less be liable al Lile discrelion of tlle Com­ missioner or assignment to be taxed as if such transfer had not been made.

JH'UJlUJ'ly of :tny movable lo Ol' in lrusl for (2) Any person wl10 after tho com­ Gl!
::!l iH Ordinance recluce mencement o( tl1 his incolllc t>y the transfer or assignment tion on the same subject :ind it is re­ freshing Ute suggestion.

The suggestion to hen.1· a lawyer making I have is: On the Income Tax stat!'

there should be a clerk set aside to advise on the draw­ to give advice on per­ ing up of returns, plexing points.

This clerk should be of a sympathetic nature and not bound up with reel tape.
In additlion to paying the and tax lo have to pay accouutauls be a woulcl indeed lawyers' hardship.

fees for a.dvice The CHAIRMAN: I am not sure 1Yhether "•C' ougl1t to :iJ1terfere wil!1 in this matter.

private enterprise (Hear, hear).

I am sure that the I.ion.

membe1· will :fincl that ad­ visers on lnc:umc 'rax plentiful ])laces.

in Main St1·eet aucl other (Laughter).

wiil llc fairly lJcfencrl cb u,;,:;: were revertec1 1 o. for dtildrc·n.
Ul.1 II�<' lfi.-1.Dcdltetion I 11e AY"i'ORi>JEY Gi:'.N2RAL: Y:ith Lo clause Hi, sii-, two amellC1ments m:1ttcl'.

in the 1n·inlell rcga1•,l are ncc;e::;s:u-y 'l'he wol'<l ''st'ction" in parap:t·a plt 2 of SlLlJ-dause (l) is to be drnugecl to ''sull-scctim1", that the reference rnakl:S it dl'a r is only to suu-d:tusc whit-lt S73 Inromc Ta.,· Bill 2S JANU.\T:Y J.!

)�9 -Commitfcc.

S7-!

(1)of clause 16 and nothing else.

Then there is to be i11scrted ( '.!)

which reads: a.
11ew sub-clause ,in proportion their respective �aintenance to the amount or value or contril>utions towards t11e (2)If an individual ·proves that for the :1 t tlie of that-year, was recP,lv!ng the year or Jie had the custody or and at his own expense any child years year immediately preceding assessment maintained who was under the age of sixteen at the commencemen t of that year, er who, •if over the a.ge of sixteen commencement such ful!-tirne that neither is en.titled same child under the foregoing of this section provision other individual duction, linquished entitled deduction instruction he nor any other tndtv1dua1 in il'espect s of this Ordinance, e­ to 'SttCh ,a d that that other iticHviclual as if the child wero a child or or unde.r any of the other has re­ he shall be his claim thereto, of the child to tile SI' me as aforesaid, to a deduction provisions is entitled in respect or, if any of the and his.
Question ''That this clause as amend­ put, and ed stand part of tlle Bill'' agreed to.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL: With a deduc­ to the other clause for that will ha.ve to clause because it regarcl tion for dependents, be an inclepemle11t ;1oes not touch any of tl1e other mattcr:o1 in cl:nrnc8 will l)e best m1ml)cred cln.use8 read: 17 and the other renumbered.

The clause will 14, 15, lti ancl 17.

It probably 17.-.
(1) If an individual proves t11at .in the year at his himself, fwhe;ther preceding he maiutained by old age or infirmity lift or his or hHs wife's incapacitate the year immediately c£ assessment own expense any _person, being a 1·ela­ l.ivo of his or of his wife who was incapacitated maintaining widowed mother, d or not, and, being a person whose total in­ come from all sources clld not exceed two hundred and :forty dollars be entitled and twenty dollars son (not ,exceeding he so maintained, shall be made in the case of an individual who, by reason of olc1 age •Or infirmity, was compelled oC a daughter ed by him ur her in the year immediately preceding a yeiar, he shall of one hundred of each per­ in respect four .in number) whom and a like dec1uction to depend upon the servllces resident the year of assessment.
with and maintain­ to a deduction of that person.

(3)This section shall apply to an being a female person as it ai>­ individua,1 plies 1to an individu son with the substitution 'wife.'

al being a male per­ for of 'husband• ( 4) 'l'he expression ' relative• includes auy person of whom the person claiming had the custody a deduction and whc51b.

il.� maintained ait :his e:x:pense while th.at per­ son was undei: _the age of sixteen years.

'J.
'J.

'llere is one poiut which I should enough to be a bachelor get such a person ,woulcl w1- like to make clear.

A certain hon.

memlJer asked ,me whether this clause included the case of a mun �vho was unfol'tunate and whet.Iler tho allowanccSs �vhi�h are granteu der this clause.

He 1does not.

These allowances are only given in ,the case of married people.

The only deduction is entitled to which a happy bachelor is that granted to every individual un- 11rnler 1ler dnuse 1-!
mid the derlncrion clmrne 16 mai11tainecl tody and ltnder clause 17 (1) in tl1e l1y ol<l rase rif a reln.tive n!!

:<' to get of infirmity.

tl1e be11efit 11est co11r,:c terl.

of :rny oforr clrcluctimrn is to get marrierl.

(2) in respect of any child by 1him and is in his cus­ incaprtcitated If l1r wisl1r8 (Lat1gh- lris Mr. GONSALVES: I happen to be the deduction would be done in to every man the member who approached the At­ torney General on this subject.
I thi.J1k that more cliarity allowing who is looking thaP.

someboily's gro11:Hl I Jairl the claim.

An unmarried man "·ho ]1aq tpare11ts to lie> n_llo\\'ecl _after his parents rather some clecluction.

or sisters oug11t children.

It is on thnt Question "That this clause st.and part.

of tllc _13:11" put, land agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN : :The adopt.ion of clause 17 will necessitate ing of all tf:lie clauses from 17 onwards.
the renumber­ (2)vVhere two or more persons jointly any such person as aforesaid maintained the deduction tion shall be ;apportioned to be made under this sec­ between them' tb:it jf a 11rnn hafl a mother :who�e second husband has deserted her and slie .Mr.

WEBBER: Am I to ;understand 875 Servic-c of Process 28 J.�NUATIY l!

):!fl Cattle Trail Bill.

87G �� is not µ'ortm1att enough to be a twidow by her son1 she might not be supported Mr. AUSTIN seconded.

Questio:n put., a.nd ag'l'Ccd to.


The CHAIRMAN: I am afraid I B.ill 1·cad tlle fast time.

mm,L :it;J, answe1· that queslion.

the hon.

Atto1·ncy Ucncral to The ATTORNEY GENERAL:Appa1•.

that ii; what it means.

\Ve are the English clause \\·hith is the salllc is alirn and has property way.

If the lie in exactly ent.ly follo11'ing w01·dcd jhusband is legally that is why it is limited mot.her.
llountl to suppo1·t her and to a. wiuowed The CHAIRMAN:-I llo not think for that extremely we can legislate 1·are case that the hon.

Mcmbe1· for Bc1·­ vVe shall find a Mco has mentioned.

lot of cweak points in this Bill and I am sure that the Treasurm· a lot of amendments year.

to prc,po;;;e uext will lw.rn that is a rcqufremcnt the Bill.
in liy the Courts is set"Yccl The ATTORNEY GENl::':RAL: I mo,·c the second 1·eading of ,\s the lnw now stamls all 1n·ocesf: Maghtrates' P11lire a11d there an afuda vit Jtas to be sworn to of the scr,ice of tl1e process.

tl1c Colony it is extremely tlie Police I'mic:e :md a grca.t :rn<l expense It is propm,N1 i11curred.
thif; Bill tl1at it is sufficient bailiff or constable to make a -return �-<•1Tice of the service in for a of aJ1Cl that is pdma far"ir evidence l1aving to :ti.nu a .Justice of the deal of time is lost In some 1rnrts been made.

of Mr. AUSTIN seconc1ecl.

Question put, and agreed to.

diffi.c:ult fol' The Co1mcil resumed.

Hill read tlie second time.

Notice ;was given that at, the next it woul<l lie mov­ the iJ1ird meeting ed that tl1e Bill be :i:e:ul -( llfr .

.M ill<inl).

of the Council time.


'rhe Council resolved mittee a'11Cl considered b,v clause.

ClauseA ag1·eed to.

inf.o Com­ itself tho Bill clanse The Cmmcil resumed.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I move that the Bill be read the lhirll time.

Mr. AUSTIN sN·ornkll.

Quesl.iou, "That this Bill be now rend put, :irnl time and passed'' a tltil'cl ap;rccd to.

Bill re::tc1 the third time all(} pn.ssNl.

CATTLE TRAIL BILL.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I of t11e RtmHlin!?


: move the sm,pension Rules aml Onlers to enable "A Bill of tolls in 1o prm·itle l't:'!'])!

'('t of the pa8!

'.age of rattle ow1: foe R11pmnmi Cattle Trail" to be t:i ken Us rcmaini.J1g tl1 r·01ir·h for the chargi11g stages.

PROOJF OF SERVICE OF PROCESS.


The ATTORNEY GENERAL:I in the Magi,;trates' of the Stamli11g tile proof of service of pro­ move the suspension Hulm; aml Orders to enable " A Bill to facilitate cess in proceeilil1gs Courts under the Petty Debts lfocovery 01'l1ina11ce, 1S!J3, tion Offences (.Procedure) 1Sfl3, arn1 the Im1ict:1b1e 0JTenr,• rellure) 0l'llin:1 through all its 8tages.

s (Pro• to l.Je taken the Summary Convic­ nee, JS!

)3," 0l'C1inance, Mr. AUSTtN seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.


The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I move that the Bill be re;:Hl the first _time.

S77 Cattle Trctil Bill 28 JANU,\RY 1929 -Committee.

878 Mr. SMELLIE soc.onded.

Question Jmt, and agreed to .

the trail kept open probaul.v efficiently aml has to pay le<;s for it.

I tltil1k a good lrnrgain than it was d011e in the pa,:t GMernment.

for the far 11101·e it is to ex­ of this Bill that last year the up­ SECRETARY: In reading for 11ne .briefly or it.

Hon.
Hon.

members The ,COLONIAL moy1ng the seconcl it is only necessary plain the reasons f will remember keep of the trail was put out to contract all(l the sum voted on the Estimate paid to the contracto been called aml one lirts ·teen accepted years' ba:;is lmt the amount voted r,ach year is to be decreased from ·$10,000 is rea,r.hecl remain.
the eontracwr passing and at that amount it will Thi,; Bill is simply to authorise for to keep the trail clear to charge tolls for cattle until the sum of' $2,000 r. Tenders have over the trail.

l\v $2,000 on a five Mr. ELEAZAR: I leave that to the Government to <letermine.

Question "That the Bill be read the second time" put, and agreed to.

nm read the second time.

Tho Com1cil resohcd itself into Com­ mittee to .

consider cla11se.

t11c Bill clause by Clause 3.-'Tolls of cattle passage over the trail.
to be paid for the Mr. $MELLIE seconded.

over it.

,Yhy Mr. ELEAZAR: I wa11t to oppose this Bill.

This trail has been kept up all these years and people never pa.icl a toll for cattle passing should Government individual paying for the trail?

If the trail i� worth keeping up Government keep it up and wliatever chargrd and collected shoulcl t11c general revenue.

w:rnts tolls let him pi,.y for its upkeep.


now allow a private tolls while it is sti.ll to cliarge should p:o into tolls are If an inclivi,hia.l Mr. CRANE: 'rJiis clause does not make clear the terms of the agreement.

It seems to me that there shouJd ht\ inserted word " tolls " the ·after the ,words "to any private pany" to indicate to be levied by Government.

body or com­ that .the tolls are not if they of tolls.
ouncil may make The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Gov­ the tolls a:s to the collection may depute the collection ernment can collect wish to, but in clause 4 it is provided Hiat the Governor-in-C regulati011s Government of those tolls to the contractor or re­ tain the collecti In terms of the contract is that tne contractor the should collect t:olls and can decide how ·the Governor-i and in wliat mam1er those tolls arc to be collected.

on themselves.

tlie intention as part of his remuneration, n-Council .next year.
We The PRESIDENT: I do not think $10,000 a year and getting from what he is saying.

tl1at we should aban­ tl1e hon.

member quite understands tl1e poRition I had determined don the trail altogether are s1wncling out of it, but a contract to very little keep it open for :five years was accepted hy a :firm.

I explained we were not going to go on 1mying H0,000 and next year it is only going to be given $8,000, the ycnr after $4,000 ancl after that unly $2,000.
The firm is quite willing accept the contract vided it is a.llowed sonnJly, stroke of busin�ss.

J think it is a remarkably good gets Government to on those terms, pro­ to levy a toll.

Per­ the year after $G,000, to that :firm that The CHAIRMAN : \The trail has kept up that the been \go disgracefully to put it in order this year 'n:llinimum and $13,000.
is betwe�n Govern­ $12,500 thought it was only fair me11t therefore to :charge to allow the contractor toll; in fact, thnt was the agreement un<for which tlie trail was taken over.

I thi11k, pc1·so11nlly, has been very lucky to get out of it so cheaply.

a that Government Queo:ition "That this clause stand part of the ;Bill" put, and agreed :to.

srn Mfoi11r1 Rrg11laf ions Bill :!8 ,J.,xU.\TIY 1!)2!)

-Thfrrl Rrrrdiny.

SSO 1'ho C01mcil resumed.


The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that ;the Bill be read the third 1 imc a nil pa:;sc,l.

The Council resolved itself il1to Com· the Bill clause by mit.tee clause.

to consider Clause 2.-Regulntions to be made by tho Govemor-i11-Council.

Mr. SMELLIE seconded.

Mr. WEBBER : I am accepting the Question ".T hat this (Bill be now read time and passed" put, ancl a thil'tl ngl'eed to.

Bill rca1l tlie third time arnl passed.


that It i1; 1tr11e .principle of this Bill and it Coundl but the�· I want to is going to con­ general m:ay not lie the last of its kind tlrnt '\V:hat will •come before the Council.

I the secl'ccy want to 1-now is whetl1cr of the Executive Council in these mat­ ters will be rnn:intni1tecl.

the Elect.iYes ltave two of thefr mem­ be1·s in the Executive are \})!edged to sec1·cey.
k11ow if Government sitle1· a11y policy whereby the publicity that was given to the consideration r<'gnlatiom, not be lost by the tTansfere11 power to make regulations to an as·sem­ bly 'wl1ich <Yf 1l1r natnre of the duties it pci-formfl.

J{cgi1lati011!

'l GoYernor-in-Council any representations them.

of will iii the Ooui:t of 1l'olky ce of the might be passed 1Jy the before we can make with regard to has to be secret because MINING REGULATIONS BILL.
The COLONIAL [SECRETARY: I to enable "A Bill 1!>20, b:v vest.i11g move that the Standing Rules and Orders be suspended to amend the Mining (Consolidation) O1·,li11:rnce, ernor-in-Council the power to make regulations con­ by the said Ordinance and Court of ferre<l on 'the Governor ;Policy" to be taken through its re­ maining stages.

in the Gov­ Mr. SMELLIE sccondeJ.

Question put, and agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN : Government to make any statement is 011 not prep:uecl tJ1e subject at present.
The COLONIAL SECR�TARY: Gov­ Tho Council resumed.

prospect­ ing-tllc issue ernment _is now consider of new regulations governing ing and mining for bauxite.

Under the Ordinanc·e of 1920 the Governor and Court of ,Policy is empowered to make regulations.

It is desired that that to the power should 110w be transferred Governor-in-Council anll tl1is Bill gives tl1e necelssary the Bill be read the second time.

authority.
authority.

I move that The :COLONIAL SECRETARY: l move that the Bill be read the third time and pasRed.

Mr. SMELLIE ,seconded.

Question "That t1'�s Bill /be now read a tJ1i.rcl time antl passed" put, and agreed to.

Mr. SMELLIE ,seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the second time.

Bill read :the third time and passed.

The PRESl,DENT: tnko the second readin_g Council Tho Council ,is now adjourned until 11 o'clock.

an<l Sewerage Bills to-morrow.

We propose to of tho Town