Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698067914399.pdf (Guyana)
127 Members P1·esent LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

bice).

COUNCIL, Orde1· of the Day 128 The Hon.

Peet· Bacchus (Westem Be1·­ Thiwsday, 11th December, 1941.

The Hon.

C. R. Jacob (North Western District).

The Council met at 10.30 a.m. pursuant His Excellency to adjournment, Governor, President, Sir GORDON LE1'HEM, in the Chair.

the K.C.M.G., The Hou.

J. W. Jackson (Nominated U noll:ici,Ll Member).

The Hon.

F .

.A.

Mackey (Nominated Unofficial J.Vlembe1').

PRESENT.

The Ron.
PRESENT.

The Ron.

T. I ee (Essequebo RivAr).

The Hon.

the Colonial Secretary, The Hon.

C. V. Wight (Western Esse­ Mr. G. D. OWEN, C.M.G.

quebo ).

The Hon.

the· Attorney-General, ML E.0.

Pretheroe, K.C., M.C.

The Hon.

F. Dias, O.B.E., (Nominated ynofficia� Membe1').

The Hon.

J. S. D�sh, Directol' of Agri­ culture.

The Hon.

E.G.

Woolford, K.C., (New Amsterdam).

The Hon.· E. F. McDavid, M.B.F., • Col nial Treasurer.

MINUTES.
MINUTES.

The minutes of the meeting of the held on the 10th of December, Council 1941, as printed and circulated, were confirmed.

PAPER LAID.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. G.D. Owen) laid on the table the follow­ ing report :- � The Hon.

l\'J.

B. G. Austin, O.B.E., .

U notlicial i\'Iember) (N omioated Report of the Committee of restoring appointed to con­ grants for Mis­ sider the question sions in this Colony.

The Hon.

W. A.

D'Audmde, of Customs.

Comptroller O.B.E., The Hon.


N. M. Maclennan, of Dil'ectot· ORDER OF THE DAY.

• �Iedical Services.

TnE PRESIDENT: Before p1·oceeding The Hon.

M. B. I aing, O.B.E., Com­ of Labour and Local Govern­ missioner ment.

'.l.

'he Hon.

G. 0.

Case, Consulting Engineer.

Forests.

The Hon.

B. R. Wood, Conservator of The Hon.

F. Ogle, Director of Educa­ tion (Acting), The Hon.

Percy C. Wight, 0.B.E., (Georgetown Centrnl).

The Hon.

J. Eleazar (Berbice River).

The Hon.lJ.


Gonsalves, 0.B.E., (George­ town South).

The Hon.

J. I.

De ·Aguiar (Central Demerara).

Tf1e Hon.

J;ung Bahadui· Singh (Dcm­ ei·a1·a-Esseq uebo ), of the to show Tile hon.

Col ,niiLl Colonial Treasuret· Secretary have comment on the debate yeste1·­ with the Ordt'r of the .lJay I would like to m,Lke one day as to :i point on the framing Estimates.

aud the ll<'n.
aud the ll<'n.

agreed with me that it may be useful somewhere in the Estimates clearly how the Budget ball!,nces a� between Revenue anr:I Annual Recurrent Expenditure.

great deal of trouble sections be shown.

It will be sufficient on the first page which you call it-A General and Liabilities.

it will only involve the one page of the Estimates.
shows...:..r think of Assets to do that, as uf but reprinting i11 rep1·inting I do not want to go to a Statpment I propose to do it the We will now proceed with the Ordfr of the Day.

A motion has that the Council the whole Council to consider proceeds been ,..accepte�d in Com'mittee of the Esti.

in which that disc,imination can l 29 E�timates, 1�4fJ 11 I)EOEMllER, 1941.

-Committee 130 m_at(s for lhe year 19�2.

If that motion 'is slil'I agne·able to hon.

II enl"br p ropose to declare mittee.


rs I in Com­ the Council The Council rcsolvc-d itself inlo Com­ edr d to consider the of Expenrtiture mil.trn ::i.ncl pr .. c, Estimates from Hevenue during the ye r ending 31st Dece11:ber, 19,i2, the taLle.

laid on have b1·e11 wliic:h to Le defrayed Hepresentative Mr. JACOB: I beg to move the reduc­ Re­ I think it opiuion in orrler of His Majesty's over this r-sst>mbly, are being dt:'bated.
should be appointrd and, I think, it is in this Colony that of His M aje�ty's to sit in this Chamber while Ir would bv vote under this Head obset�­ to make cortnin I am in ,,rder.

Iu the w bile we welcome the tion of the entire 011e dollar vations.

I think, first instance presence to preside is below the dignity pres�ntative the Estimates be far more desirable the mtLjority to occupy a Speaker the Chair in this Legislative I Council.

do not know what other hon.

Members wiil have to say ahout it.


Perhaps I stand aloue, but I would like to say that I took I he opportunity the whole Colony holding tc,gethor quibo River (�-lr.

iij uot hern, nnd we have public opinion behind us-I may say !

)0 or \!5 rer cent.

of the people.

It is a question which I thiHk should be g' ven considerntion ·a little by my later on.

I have been to read a const_it uency and so am obliged resolution July, 1941.
I would like at the outset 10 I make in thi8 say that any critic'sm Council must be considered as wholly im­ personal.

as I have stated on severnl am compelled The resolution to go through meetings to cany out that duty.

: be asked to with the lion.

Mem Ler for Esse­ I have a duty to perform and, that was passed there l•ll lh11 3rd That the Imperial reads as follows Government authorized M various places refund every cent received as salary, Jackson ments, it.
as he hsd not earned from this country etc., by Sir Wilfrid emolu­ [ occasions, T want to say tliat T (iaughter).

mtLtter tot>k no part in tho let), who unfortunately ESTIMATE<:; 1942.

Oovi::rrno I1em 1 (e)-l"r ivate Secretary, $1,920.

n. who has been appointed Mr. DEAG1JIAH: M:ty I enquire post'?
It is common knowledge whether them is a vac.mucy hcrr, anc.1 "hether this , mount of $) ,920 is bt'ing paid Lo s•-meono to tlii� that :.i.t tho pre ent momfnt there is a Cl�ss IH, Cler� 11,11d �µ Assistant intimdent of that post.

I •lID wvndering is pr�posed to appoi_nt.

1.0 calTY out the duties of Private Socre·ary.


of fo iee carr) i11g out the duties some ther pe1·�• whether it Super­ n TuE CHAIHMAN: I have taken on ILade by my imme·fiate Jackson, Sir Wilfrid and I do any change as it seems to be the arrangement predecessor, no.� prop1,se l•ne very suitable.

fully occupied, 1 can a•1;ure hel'.

I have not ren.lly co11sicle; tha.11g .. , and I prefer at the prc�ent as it is.

lhc una11gemen1 Both oflkers are very eel any to le,tve the hon.
Mem­ Mr. DEAGUIAH: Then this vote is being utilized ?

'l'nE CllAirU1AN: It is being fully utilized.

the ol:lice, s 11re receiving l,etween salaric�.

is 1 hat I thiok the ex1•lana.lion this amou11t substan1 the[!}

ar;d halt of l11eir Is that so?

ive Tei:: CHAIRMAI-; : I would just like to say that the ho11.

Member ha� movl3d of the vote by one dollar the reduction one l £ which on!er to raise certain points, The other is I can answer imm .. diately.

11 motion whieh he caunot move now.


in That THE COLONIAL i;RCTTETARY: and it is l..ie­ arrangement is the original i11g continued.

Mr. PEAGUIAn: T only wanted to know whether the mo11ey is be;ng srent.

'1)11, QHAlRMA� 1 l ct\n e�� th1\� i1ao, Mr. J A.COB: I am reading a resolution that was mnved in my coo�Lituency and that I was asked to montion in this Coun­ cil so that a r�corc.l The res .. lution unanimously pu•·posc, only to read it but tu do something in thi� Council, :!
: san do any�hing to my surprise for the at a meetiug convened and I was specially can be mac.le of it.

more 1hu.n re�d the I clo uoti tbi,,k, was carried however, fort her request_ed n,,t 131 Estimates, 1942 LEGIBLATJVE COUNCIL.

-Committee 132 of the Culony resoluHon an<l let it be-pbced on record so a� lo show th<l feelings some parts should like to say further the resolution nial Secretary 5th July, 1941. w,11; submitted in a letter from me elated of �he people in at least.
I tho: a c py of to-the Colo­ Urn.t afrer trying out the vote; I suggest if Your Excellency we may Ppproach the Council a supplo111entary estiora'c !o 8a_1 whetlwr more money by way_ 9£ .

I am uoab'e $1,000 is adequaLe.

re.quil'es 'fag CHAIRMAN: It is fa.r bet te1· to do it 110w aud save paper in the issµe of special '1'1·, warrauts.

n.-u rer any idea?

Has tlie hon.

Colonial 1s l'emarks with the President iij of Council.

THE CHAIRMAN : 'fho only pat:t that in the l,on.


\11�ruber is relevant that dealing would do me the hon­ If the hon.

Mewbet· my speech to the Council out· of rcadiog on the opening day, he would see that I myself made some such prop11sal knowing anything Colo_ny.

I am quite prPpared, the putting come to suggest with the Constitution, dealing that the Governor should .not be a clause of the Legislative Presid�nt without in this (Jf the opinion of a resolution to accept Council.
when wo Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I do not know whether the hon.

Member refers lo the whole pay111ent only to the amount which should have been deducted he is gettin� know what to the refund of tho w holo salal'y, for Income '1\1x.

I do not to your predecessor or at, when ho refers Mr. l'vlc DAV JD (Colo1Ji11l Treasurer): of t,he vote is too small, intends I \,],ink the a11111u11t c·specially travel a.rouud the cot111trv vat" merely ,ipJJlies I sngg, st that the vote lie increased least one-half.
to if Yout' Excellency Thi� l transport.

to ,;orr11a, by ab districts.

vet·y remarkable Tim CHAIRMAN : Tl,at is my own feeling, to say io.

If ht1t I did not wa.11t one is !o use the Air Service.

which is something I doubt if this vote would suffice.

I am quite prepared vote the Cuuocil fixe•, arounri then I must ask to be given what with.

to travel tu keep myself withip any in this Colony, but if I ti-ave!

Mr. DE AGUIAR: That is what I am THE CHAIRMAN: It seems to be quite clear.
It is inteocled sum paid as remuneration funded by the Imperial that the whole should be re­ Government.

zealously privilege the matter of Govern11:e11 without ende,wou•·ing of Members of this Pouncil in rnooey cove ing authority.

t spending to safeguard-the Tait COlONIAL SECRET.ARY: I Item 3-Ti·ansport on Official Visits, move that the .amount o·f the item be in­ creased from $1,000 to $1,500.

$1,000.
$1,000.

Mr. DE AGUIAR: In view of the fact has expressed amount of to do a. greater ,1 desire g than has been done by previous and also iu vielV of the fact that I am won� !

}uch visits, the figure of $1,000 fo1· 1942 Tt is not within tho pt·ovin�e that Your Excellency and willingnesii travellin Governors the peovle welcome dering whether is �ufficient.

of an Unofficial increase, a suggestion at $1,500.


Member to move an but I think _that as the result of out the item may be carried sl1ou.lJ Y out· Excellency Mr. l\IACKEY: l arn in rnti1:e agr·ee­ to wliich but surely this is 11u item nio'ot th, t the vole $1,500, can be brought up every month.

If I m'adt, remembt:i· the suggest meeting once a fortuight the Unofficial dealt \\ith then and passed.
our that more tr1;1,velli1,1g not ouly by the Gove.rnor of the Colony but by the various Reads of G,,vernment as well.

Depart-ments rightly, ion that you should ha.v11 a or month wiith be The item cau .fav-· I .am in shoulct bo dooe Memb.er�.

I be i\,c'reased j Tm CHAIRMAN: Only $611 was spent.

in 1940.

I have no detiils I have spent Io date; it ma.-be consider­ able.

The hon, Colonial ha,ve an idea as to the adequacy vote.
may of the Treasurer of what Tm� CHAIRMAN: It is qt1ite h-ue we can deal with it in the way sugge,ted, b,\t if you are sure th it the vote i� no� enough it is wiser to inc1 ease it now an<l swe paper and time in doing it later.

0 'rHE COLONIAL SECRhTARY: May Mr. i1A.CKEY : If i't is fo-�nd n'ecessary 133 Estim'ates, 194f 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-Committee 134 at any time that more money is required, that is a matter which can be brought later ou.
before thu Fin•nce Committee agree th:, t the amount shoulJ be I entirely incrrased, t1 at.

more tnwelling should be doue by H�ads of Departments.

and I emphasize up Question put, nnd agreed to.

Item passed a� amended.

nnd when some to experimce '.l'his is the only place where the views of the of for obviou� then one must feel compelled to the fact, I had the un­ p1·esenb bime.
Memberd can express people of this Colony, those views cannot be expressed reasons m ,ke reference fortunate Council that I had also the unfortunate of being the only Member of this Council who voted against the confirmation Miuutes, irregular.
fol' 01·de1· in this Cour.cil, which to my mind was highly for a few hours, The day prior to out, sir, of affairs and the proper conduct of retiring of I h11,ve ahv.tyti stuck experience from this Your Excellency, '.l'hose mi .utes have been confirmed, but that the attendance later ou to have the sittings were changed.

obsc-rva•ions had been made on �evernl LEOISLA'rune.

Mr. JACOB: I beg to move the reduc­ tion of this vote by one dollar i11 order to make certain unrler this Head.
In the first pl11ce, a suggestion occasions previously of Members in this Chamber would be better if the hours of sitting I merely rnise it to-r'ay to show tlnit it m�y be advisable beginning to 4 or at 1 p.10.

and contiuuing 5 p.m. or t.o some 01 her time in tl,e eve­ ning.

I think it is ratl,er to legal practitioners who are Members of this Council to coma here during a Sessi9n from 10.30 or 11 a,m.

until 4 p,m.
until 4 p,m.

It cannot· be disputed Members of this Council satisfuc atteuded have ,ilways aud regul,irly, more desirable afternoon, some private p.m. and then attend Council in the afternoon.

hear au expression by other Memuets so that there can be a record of it.

here fairly but I think it wil I be far in the to Im, e one sitli11g to do as Members would like work between 9 a.ru.

and 1 of the the sitting I would like to nda11ce has not been very • ory.
So far es I am concerned that the 11tt, of opinion of legal inconvenient I punctually I. think I am within ruy right­ way adopted M embe1· present me tremendously.
about minutes nod Law too, and I or amending of State for the Col­ minutes, in to refer thnt matter through, the conect procedure I p1·op,,se you to the Secretary ouies to show how this Council, constitu­ ted as ib is and with the advice that it gets, can confirm miuutes that do not or the represent when that meeting correet h:i.ppenings wa.s held.
I stated then that there was a way of correcting but the highly irregular with every this Council then voting for it a1.0uses I claim to know a little something am not a lawyer records Assembly not give correctly time.

Maybe I have no redress, dir.l this Government not want to confirm the coneet minutes?

I tabled and asked certain questions been deleted would embarrass tho�e questions usual pet phrase "It is not in public 'l'hat to answer those que�tions."

interest strikes I at the root of this Assembly.


maintain has confirmed minutes what happened from the minutes.

If it Governmeut about Companies' too.

Minutes that do at that but why of what happens but it might have said so in its but four of them have tha.t it does.

to answer are correct this Legislative of the opinion my way at tho moment I have been threatened of this Council of the Estimates of Members here.
that the con particularly in the should be some­ ] am ju·st feeling �to refer to the change of tho Constitu­ tion and the a tendance I am strongly stitution passing what different.

J\'Ia.ybe there are very good reasons when it is 11tituted Council sitting, but l'emembered have been made since June or l\lay and here we are in December has made certain country ed changes inal libel criticize investig11ted.

Council, who is a .M:embet· Couucil, libel.


I would Member with criminal like to be put in gaol fo1· criminal libel.

I want him to repeat that outside thi3 Chamber, Because I dared to ask tliat the government possible pronouncemeuts, the whole is not at all easy over the propos­ and what ha..s been done at the while Your Excellency got up and threatened One hon.
Member of this for having the present oon- tlrnt suggestions with erim• fashion be run in the cleanest I have been threaten�d because I attempted to and ask that certain things of Executive an Elected be I I t Further 135 .E'stimates, 1942 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

-Committee 136 Council.


libel and all kinds of things I cherish ges of this Council, in this Legishtive is to be changed too highly the and I ask that in more care be ta.l<en as to with the business of tl1i$ The very sho,tly, of this Legislature I hope it will be done and that the public will with cl'iminal in this Council.

p.-ivile future a little how we proceed c11untry Constitution and the personnel aho t0 be changed.
ve, y rapidly regain confidence have addreestied Government on thi.� que,tion t11ken care to collect it.

Pul,lic the constitutiou as it is at present, and it is hoped th, t Government will see the advisability of having this Council prnperly constituted at uo distant on is definitely against of this Legislative Council in this Legislature.

several and I have public opinion I to tile letters opinion is will give some considerati,.n other activitie3 .

from my various of this Council is one, I trust, date.
Mr. C. V. WIGR'l': I would just .like to say that the suggestion by the hon.

Member for i. change in the hour� of sitting Government I spealc not only as a legal Membr1· because this yea1· I do not think I have done much legal '\Vork and I have been told so by the clerks in my office.

However, I do think that the hour� of sitting cause a certain amount while one does not care to say anything a.bout it.
It i, tl'Ue that legal Members of Council are treated the Courts in 01·der the sittings some inconvenience legal Members but to other Members of this Council with some courtesy that they mny attend of the Council, of the Council cauijed not only to but there is as well.

iu Mr.

PEER BACCHAUS: I do nut subscribe to the views of the two hon.

Members who have spoken.


I happen to be a Member from the East, and when I leave home to attend the meetiugs of the Legislative Council I have to remain all the time iu town.

I therefore prefer to give t!1e whole of my time when away from home to the business rather than to spend half a day doiog nothing.

I would remind the hon.

Members that when they decided to give public service they knew they would hav-e to make some sacrifice.
I do think that much of the time spent in t,his Council can be lessened a great deal, and I wish hon.

Members will bear that in mind in their consideration of the E:;timates, <,f the Council of inconvenience, man.

I am themselves I fur com­ and I he plea for the country to a legal man but it is very see that it is conve11ient from their Lusinesses .

Time may not be men to come here and spend half by the hon.

Member (Mr. J ac ,b).


111en will have Mr. DE AGUIAR : I would not have risen l>ut for the appeal on belatlf of the le�al Membe1·s Me o bers, and I think I am entitl�d to plead for the commercial Members.
ca.11not mercial a day as suggested for North-Western District I, means that commercial to divorce for a whole afternoon valuable valua hie to the com •nercial not telling tales out of school when I say that commercial Me:nber; leave here at 4 o'clock in the afternoons and go back tn tht'ir offices is there to Le done.

It is t ue that we find it iuco:ivenient to be here, but tlmt is a matter for us to decide.

Perhaps we One may imggest that we sit on Sundays.

hon.
hon.

Member had in mind our sitting here in the evenings, but I would remind him that when that was done t.hP.re was ,� special re11s011 to come here in the evening estimates and li�ten Unless the meetings tive I do not think I would welcome ing here night after night and hearing some of the speeches cluding to consider to drowsy speeches.

are made vci·y attrnc­ and try to finish up what work for it.

No one wuuld like those made by me.


made here even in­ com­ 'Ihe present hours a1·e all right, unless only prolong At the present the meetings moment of the day, that would suit me best, we decide to sit longer in the mornings a.nd go away.

If we sit only from 9 a.m to 12 noon and do not come back for the balance but that would of the Council.

we sit for fou1· hours-two morning-from hours in the afternoon-from those hours, I submit, to all concerned, U1em so.
I see a good many of them here today, and those who are not here have some special fixture absence, hours in the two 2 to 4 -and are ,·e1·y even the lawyers fiud and we cannot be guided by that.

which has caused theiL· 10.30 to 12.30-aud convenient Mr, C. V. WIGHT: I have only risen to Members returning the hon.
Member to commercial say that I thought when referred to their business afternoons added that in future before this Oouncil done in business houses after 4 o'clock in the and doing work, he would have any legisl ,tion coming in respect of the work house� after 4 o'clock .l:'athologist" and h 13 7 Estimates, ID4f3 11 DECEMD1m, 1941. l:38 -Committee of the post would like to and PI.Lnt intention from a i,elfish I <lo not think we then entirely of the Council 'i'nE OF-IAIR\1:AN: first infor,ning enter into a <leba�c of Agriculture"-!
vnth regard to the abolition the staff or shop assistant�.

l raised it the am!

over the Council, in tlie coming year.

I mention an undertaking should exclude I take it that is taken for granted.

on this question at :m­ ,,f sit­ of the hout·s I would on page 3.

With regard to (2)-" Deputy Director state for the iof,,rmation tlmt it is Government's to take i:,hould steps to have this post filled as early a,� now.
We may discuss very fully possible that other time this ruatter has been given bec,mse ing of the Council.

Personally, tlrnt the pntit will not be filled without like to sec it pursued.

Government this Council first day I presided of its intention.

I was �pt•akiug point of view and was not thinking of the hon.

Membet· for \-Vestern Berbice (Mr.

I just ri:ised it as in the Peer Bacchus).


Mot.her of Parliameuts it was found that a great number of the Members could not do the morn­ their other work unless ing hours f1 ee; therefore not meet in the mornings.

in the same position.

I have to come here and sit for four hours a day, givi1cg up a part of the mornin!!

and a pa It of the afternoon, through with my other work.

1 went to bed this morning at lrnlf past one o'clol:k became I had to spend the whole evening in readiug during the day.
I em oxpressin>.

( but there :ire a numuer personal of Government Officers sitting here whose work is piling up in their offices and I would like to hear them speak fut· them­ selves.

it at Home Anyway, let us discu�s convenient of " Bot�nist the substitution "Curator, what wa:s said by 011e hon.
cl,�y I would like to i11form recommend,tti u n,,t only made by the Agricultural Adviser for Deve:lopment fodies but by the Comptroller advise strongly itnd Pl nt Pathologist" that the Gat·dcns" be not filled but post of "Cut•,,tor, be created.

Member yester­ i1im that it i:; a Mr. ELEAZAR: I cio not want to rise TllE COLONIAL SECRETAHY: Yes, Tag CHAil1MAN: There will be a siwing a� the result of the ch,mgo !

and I find it diliicull it small saving in sa.l:uy.
on what took p!t,r.e Botauic Gardens", of the uow post of and W,tlfore documents I find myscif they had Parliamen opiniou, time later.

Bobnic £.,th t docs to get a in view of that t-hc p,ist of " Botanist to the Comptroller in the W n�t himself.

The question of the Constitution has to diseuss and do it very fully.

I hope to done in tl1e next few come :o been raised.

\-Ve are going that latc1· have :;iomething weeks or month�.
Before we c,t11 any decision to be done, even before the first change which is the abolition of the l l'!

:(O Official membership.

Western Dititrict not pressing had his say.

The hon.

Member for North­ l1is amendment having (Mr. Jacob) I take it, is deal Before I and so I will just speak over and over again on 11ccount of rny istatti oZ health, generally on the Head and refer to one or two items on these estimates.

commence to speak, I may tell Your a Rtory I have read.
It is the Excellency when he had story of it lawyer who always, a VUl'Y bad ca�e all'I was addressing the Court, worked emotion ol<l J udgc on one ocea�io11 Mr. t:io-and-E:o, you are coming with th:i t old stunt again ! "

" Yes, Your Honour," "but every time I have a uew jury".

un ti!

he burst into you do 11ut mean to say said to lii1� " Oh tears 'fhe there is a c,i11si<lernlilc himself up into a state of the lawyer replied, Mr. JACOB: Yes.

1 only moved the for that purpose.


reduction THB OH.AIRMAN : The amendment being withdrawn the whole of Item l. we will proceed to pass Question put, and a.greed to.

Some of the old stunts that will come up here you will excuse me for staging, l have you ;ind the new Membe1· left (Mr. Ogle, tion) as a new jury.

(laughter).
(laughter).

ac:ting Oirector on my of Educa­ because AGRICUL1'URK, Tne COLONIAL SECHETARY I want to refer to Th.ere are two matters before we deal with sub-iten1s (1) to (16) I do not understand thi� Department, The Head It has great mathematicians.

will get up hera a.nd of thi5 Department tell you uuught from nought leaves flfty­ two, but he will not put the minus sign ., - 139 Estimates, 1Fl4f: LEGISJ,ATIVE COUNCIL.
-Committee 140 but wit-bout success, who are 1 ]nt, can grow has risen in ordr1· for so,11e Oirector to got to'<l and I do not know What have all the before sugar became kint', hut II e undertook the Oepartrnent.

e of this f'epartment to $168,000.

when compet­ became too strong and then came ancl t·,ok over, and most of the but from the wilds of Africa.

I have neve,· seen that gentle111an him, but I understr1nd he was brought from Africa.
Two gentlemen still living in the Cou11ty of Berbice, and wh1JRe char,wters a rn abo, e reproach "ho h" ve been dabbling tiin" i,1 of tobRcco �rowing till< approaehe:1 that gentleman him to l1elp them.

That gentlem,w them that he did not know how to cure tol,acco but he knew how to grow it in the field.

before it.

During the last ten years the expenditu, from $112,000 we got fo1· it?
We a• e told, despite things that we i1ave i:rewn here before a11d are growing to-day, nothing Ii ere except rice and sugar-two things thn t very l1ave been growing here all H long 1111d , well before the present as he �aid, to reorganize Cotton was a special product of thi� country are told tlmt it cannot b� produced here now, nnd the reason •given for leavi11g cotton alone is 1h·1t litbouris not sufficient.

a point of explanation!


Cotton ruled uni il the t�111e fair to say that thi� story has been giveu itive pl'ices before , to the Council sug!\I' Council people went off to sugar.

There we, e the office1· other things grown here a� well.

At a with thP-curing of " Llack fat" tobacco, time like this when a war is on a11d there which is a particular are several abroad rnch as, jams, jellies tlrnt kind, and when we are making sugar in this ccuntry fruits all kinds growing possible to show l,is metal.
vVn have a b�nd of highly speciali�ed ex pensive and at stall' in this Department, r, time like this we cannot hear the Department say: " We are g"ing to to take the place produce jams a11d jellies of tlie imported 11rticle� ".

Nothing is dune and yet we get an increase e�timates Mr. ELEAZAR: To �ave mysl'!f get­ ting up to speak on everyi•em I am making a �pec·ch Memb<>r wish to mo,-e a motio11 with reference to any p� rticultir of the Estimates?

nd t() rem 'nd the then.


What said was t!rn t hn was not au fait THE CO LONI\ f, SECLrnTARY: 'ro I think it is only things we cannot get from and things of of all ov�r the place, it is Tne CHAIRMAN : Does the ho11.

Mr. EL '<:A.ZAR : I have sai•J what men, a highly specialisrd TrrE CHAIRMAN: You of thi� Department.

for the Director 1111d have tropical of the statement kind of tobacco.

are speaking to me.

was told 111nde i tern on pago 3 on all.

in tl.c iv d gen<'r,dly cu lar itt<rn ?


on page 3 and n"t on any pa1 ti­ Mr. ELEAZAR: Yes, si ... lam only to pnrticular dn,wi"g attention go along.

I was t,,l,I not know to cure tobacc,,.

told that.

was aglliu items aRI that the expert did Only t0-day I 'l'rrn CHAIRMAN: Ir you desire par­ to refer to the tobacco i'nclustry ticularly we wou Id take it when we gC't to page 5 where there is au item-Tobacco Developme11t on tobaeco .

You, an keep your remarks that.


until we get t-i Industry To show how things are done in tliis in on the coastlauds and here better than in Havana., Two 01· thr e years ago Departm�nt: this Council after a long dcbat➔ seri -usly decided to try the curing of tobacco y.

We know th t tobacco c,in this c<•uut, grow here very well.

'.I.

'he A borigi11al I11di11ns know m re about tl,at than a•,y­ body else, and everyone knows that we can grow tobacco he1·e.
One scientist once said that we are growing tobacc:J he fave the scientific said that the tobacco than that grown in Havana.

It wos decidt·d that this G-,vernment who can cure tobacco, wa, charged with the responsibility bringing When eventually was not from Brazil where they grow tobacco in galore, 11, high 1•eput1tiion ddual into the count, we got that individual, should get an expe1 t and this Depa1,tment r�nson for that.
He grown here nob from Caba which has such fo1• to bJcoo gl'owing, of y. he i, thinner that i11di but I 11.m m:Lki11 Mr. ELEAZAR: l wualu like Lo do g a i11es.

If I "m to what you suggest, speech 110w on general I speak on evt•ry several to get up so often.

When J am finished and we oo:ne to tl'::le item� I will not llO.¥ itew I will h:we to maku anrl I have uot the energy spee,l,es !lJ r- 141 Estimates, 1942 11 19H.

DECEMBER, -Committee142 .

. "


J uhn school she· p are in a pen is wlrnt every­ for figures.

the Governor is like the school­ sees impossible.

conceit or hypocrisy sees possible this J ohu and gave him a simple pro­ knows " subtraction" "None".

"What!"

said the mns­ : " You know subtracti, Government Department master in a story I am �oing to give you.
He had a little boy named John in his school who showed an iiptitude One day the Authorities visited the -I suppose wM nmong them -an1l he wanted to show off hi� scholars.

He called blem in arithmetic.-20 and five get away, how many re1nain.

Joh-i replied ter, "y .. u don't know subtraction?

replied n and I know sheep; if one get away ttll gone".

Thi� Departmont very well, but it does not know ''sheep" That is what we have in this Department hct·e.
I do not know if it is absolute obscurantism, What I do not understand, body else in the country Department the Americans are actually out nf some other stuff because as it is wauted fot· war purposes.

,v e don't want to take something thing else, but there a.re certain seasons herti when we have ground provisions iu galore-at this present i11�L.1nce we have a Jot of rice-and can be profita­ .
We get flour from C:i.nada bly utilised and U.S.A. and that commodity but I do not hear the IJirectJr Agriculture say th .

t we should get a mill and make rice flour.

I cannot hear him say we must get a mill and mnke plantain flour.

Plant,dn flour is e�pecially fm· chil<lren.

Department tight while the country things au<l canuot get them.

Although we produce tlie NW material not got enough brains t·, make the fulle;t use of it.

That is why I s'.l.y it is obscurantis,n.


U'l au<l the community the same p·,sition all the time.

with all it� 'olngists sits wants a l these most nutrit,ious The Agricultural I read that making bauxite is sc,irce, of The Department of emergency ,iud keeping us in is dece:ving the sut·plus here we liavo and make some­ has been mounting time.

I see Instrnct·•rs."

word.

If, however, way then I will have to do so.


you prefer the other TeE CHAIR vi AN : I suggest that if you have any wroarks on the items on page 3 to make them, Lut what appears to be a particufar pro­ vision on the estimates with wh1 n we get to it.

item with a particular should be dealt and Officers in General now.

Y ou1· Excellency to come along and that there should in all the districts d n� soon as pos�ible and so we want 10 Agri�ul­ were brou�ht in.
It was left to to learn that of the present on the Rend is not pulling by himself and that they after I lmt the Inspector in the West Indies ha� and said he was the Department.

The mt>n and Mr. ELE6ZAR: i:::peaking generally, this Department its weight.
I expect more from it espec­ ially ns its expenditure up from 1931 to the present an item-'' 10 f' gricultuml I understand of .Agriculture actually recommended be one or two Agricultural every district, tural Inslructors will be vel'y n uch surprised the immcdi .. te predecessor Director had me11 trained stationed were cr,shiere the new Director arrived reorganising were sent away and spechilists 'ologists someone from outside say wlmt was the correct the Department thing a·l the time.
J do r,ot know where we • re g11ing to get the ten men from.

I suppose they are going to be brought from those men '1'1mbuct:)O, Your Excellency, wh•) wtre traine<l by the late Sir John Harr:son were doing a goud j"b ,vhen they w�re got rid of.

I do not know whethet· the Department is going to uegin to train these ten Agriculturnl croincr to seud :i.broad for them.
This seud­ incr �broad for men for :i.griculture.l or any pu�·pose in this country has not been a very happy project not w11nt any more men to come here to teach people to grow rice and "hen they see tlrn plant cannot distinguish it from crrnss.

That is common knowledge.

An �ffi cer w he_n t Lken into n field of growing rice said to the 111nn «·Why du you not cut down ull this gt·ass?"

'l'lie man repli, "'fhis is not grass, boss, this is rice".

That is the dange1· abroad.

They always come to learn.


was doing the wrong Iustructo1·s when you get men from in timed past.

We do thing and that now ur is d : This Departmfnt more than any other them, but they are here There are several items here which I do is going t, and a.re I want thii Depal't­ those things, not know how the Department justify going to be passed.

meut to uuder,;tand Directo1· him these things he makes excu es for not doing them.

"I am Dfrector; grow anyLhing but let everything will not budge.
When you tell other than rice an_d cane I know that you may el�e go hang", Arld but the He take; up the attitude: I· food" t-hat some kind of 143 Estimates, 1942 LEGISLATIVB COUNCIL, -Committee 144 will · vf They felt �cieuti General Director standard would assist money on this was inaugurated.

in the West Indies we mu�t them to of the and every year it is incrensiog.

but we Lael those one (,f and hearing this Department is nothing to is bein!,; spent.
this Depa1·tment and given an opportunity has been reorganizing I <lo say that we are value fur tlio money we are ai.d that good would accrue there­ in this advet·se : that it huge Rums of money, that it i,1 yet we go on spending Department Now that we have an Inspector Agriculture have ten more men to go into the villages to teach th,i p:'ople, men before.

Sir J oho Harrison, ts t-he ,vest lndies has the greatest evel' seen, had them but tlt�y we1·0 all and sent away after he left.
cashiered Tho�e men had been experimenting in tho ble time and Dep:o rtmeot for a consi<le1·a the town becauso are now kn<·cking 11beut pl'esent the Department.

not getting spending l1Jt 1,f men there and we think they ought to converting some their mi11d, to address which into articles of the loc ti prnducts we cannot get from abroad.

We ha,ve wasting hern and othe1· prpp•·rs wl,ich that n,itul'e pickles vVe cnmv•t get, pickle� now but nothing the Departme11t.
everybody entitled pension cuuso by doin� that we will sa· e something.

We aro spending anything and are not getting we pay them off we will �pe11d on the Department.

Department that this Department raise the agricultural country from.

Since then I have been sitting yeal' :i,fte1· year Council criticisms ,igainst is si:-endiug and thqt there top-heavy show for tho money which But I still hope th,.1.t be encouraged to show its worth.
Since the outbreak in Europe the Depa,rtment hostilities advised prudently food, but I expected '' grow more machine1·v whe1·eby the form of an agricultul'al It is true, sir, marketing.
co-operative bank is a stupendous that an agricultural huge expenditure, move entailing the same time I feel it is the only thing in this that will assist Colony bec1iuse, it will be based on a. long t.-1·m p ,yment system It i1; true that at the Credit Bank t,ime the Co-opel'ative prest:ut but these loans loans to farmet'S, is giving and the per­ are for a short tet·m pel'iod is rather high.· of interest centage is done in that dirnction I eft to 111e I will give in that Uepartme11t to lump sum twd pension their o.nd lump Rum and let tl,em go, ue­ of very to grvw more as a concomitant would have been the people would be assisted introduced in bank and can be u,ed in making from abroad ou1· agric·ulturists money on the D<1partmeot on this Drpartment.
credit with the usual re­ marketing, colonists I tliink, less money for it, and if thing!!

of We have a who is but at to by in i11crimiwiti0u t-o provido Perhaps is not doin'.

( he t,ied, to my n,inrl, This is a dPpartmeut when the man is not dead, Your this Department As I said yesterday, I do not that Your Excel­ lency has to a ldress your mind to parti­ if that i.� done in con­ cularly.

clave with the Direct·ir you would get to know why a coffin Excellency, us justico.
wish to indulge because crimination one step further.

so that the I 1il'ector of viewing well.

For years we have been telling to look on the othc•r 110 nctice of it J think if he does that will prnve more useful to the D11partment nt tl,is time when the country, get from which we c11nnot we w:int thi11�s het·1• abroad and whith can be produced .
or re­ that cannot carry us on the other side as him eRpec'filly the picture I make these remarks side but he has t,iken place in Georgetown deduct­ <lo you find to -day?

the balance As regards of our farmers I think the re­ should be pooled in and I hen the fat·ruers parts of the country sources the different sent to a central where they could be sold and after given to the ing the expenses farme s. But wlrn,t of the Dem­ Take fo1· instance erara !liver District.
They c,1me to Georgrtuwn to spArl'I ting a fail' pt·ice for wily consumers mo·11ent is compelled If there is co-operat.

time will be saved the fat'mers of their pt'o<luce disposn,l spcncl oncupicd in doing work on theil' farms.

for him t • return in Georgetown to sull fol' little home when he in get­ The the last and the day� they th ir pl'oducts.

wait until possibly two or three days pel'haps 01' nothing.
ve marketing much in the can be beneficially will see the possibiliLy Dr. SINGH: Most of the inh,ibitants this Colony, ers, expres�ecl especially feelings the peasant of farm­ of hope when this We have alRo t.o think of juvenile de­ linquents.

a.scend·rncv employmei1t tion to the problem.

Their numbers are in the all the time and, I th 'nk, their on the land -is the 011ly solu­ a.re thousan::ls 'l'hel'e with their p1·oduce and have 145 Estimates, 194f 11 DECEMBER, 1941.
-Committee 14 6 £or and the school every year, these boys and girls to the land, I think it for them to obt,iin, is the laorl.

If something 0£ boys and girls leaving and there is not enough encouragement them in Water Street.

Employment seems difficult only solution can be done whereby can be attracted will save them from becoming delinquents.
After all they are goin� to be the future men and women of British are going to be the citizens It is true that tho type of trniniug dren receive makes them look upon agriculture sort of menial vocation, implements think our boys and girls will be willing take to the land.

I make this suggestion that this Colony, because we are hopeful one, which is in the main an agt·icultural will progi·ess off and the people made better by our producing not only enough for our­ selves Guiana.

They of the future.
They of the future.

the chil facilities I to at the present time, perhaps, and mechanised but for export, but with modern as some require action as in the c·1se of the rice which, I venture to suggest, to-day than of the future by vii·tue which is now going 011 in the 'rhe Minister action of their suggestions until fom· or five years after.

This one will immediate industry assumes greater importance in the immediate conflict Pacific.

I take it for granted and am presuming th:it hon.

aware of.
aware of.

these several passages-has repeatedly stated, He is reported throughout but in different as saying : debates the various words, his policy.

Members of Council are fully of Agt'iculture­ "Farmers would be asked in many cases dras­ to altP.r their normal production tically all cases materially must be assured products and of a reasonable increased expenditure."

of a market for the increased return and in it.

They to increase for their Y out· Excellencv has referred to the Officer.
I which lmve been set of ,L " M ,u·keting here to co-ordinate when he arrives policies appointment take it tlrnt it will be part of that officer's duties the various up but I think some initial be done befol'e one moment saying the hon.

Director of Agriculture is not ciipable, scribe to the view that one is a sp1Jcialist in a particular Again we have the Minister saying: is not.

of Agriculture he arr ives.


I am not for brn,nch and another work should but I do sub­ :Mr. C.V.WIGHT: With your pet'mission of and certain occasions in relation of our Department them if necessary.
on several namely, into the various which have been local Ordinances I have to these to quote one or two passages of the Parliaments I propose from the '' Journal the Empire " in regard to the policy adopted in England to agricul­ ture, and to enquire how that policy is to be continued and to set up whether it will not be advisable to enquire a comwittee _ legislative enactments passed for the benefit of agriculture also to coalesce and expand referred 152, 153 and 155.
Yes­ chapters terday I referred briefly of stabilization cially necessa1·y dize the just like to say that these expressions opinion are not necessarily tho authority moment than the Minister of r griculture, and if I may be permitted ence to one or two passages journals of them but I do not intend to quote them all-it mn.y shorten to say.

of prices with regard espe­ that if to the grower and suggested to subsi­ it might be desirable forms.
I would to make refer­ in the various to - I have �evera,l mine but have of no greater person at the I have referred to the question what little in various f.,rmer I lmve of A committee of that sort should sit, I and make a report which should suggest, not be treated mittees' reports, as is usually done with com­ and that is to take no "In the course of the next few months they would have to take steps which were economic and, from the long term point of view, unwise but which were forced escapable necessities must ensure themselves the present action nnd the only way to do so wus by production."
increasing upon them by the in­ of the situation.

stoppage by enemy against programme importation They of domestic I think those words are very apt to this It is something for the to enlighten of ,i Curator, ca�e.

We have a suggestion appointment Gar­ Botanic should be in a dens.

The hon.

Director us more on it, but position that appears to me to be a long term view and nothing immediat.e.
which you must satisfy keep contented by remunerative pr·iccs­ who is more commonly the producer, known in this Colony as the farmer.

The hon.

Member for Dememrn-Esse­ quebo ( !Jr.

Singh) su�gested to the land, but those whl!

have spoken to the £11 rmers realize in this their difliculties to alle­ country.
an extensiv viate their lot by instituting e We ttre now attempting the needs of and tL return 147 EBtimates, 194/!J LEGISLATIVE COUNOIL, -Committee 148 I have no hesita­ and, I and drninage now for us to fix I know the hon.

will say the Rice form of irrigation it only l'emains think, prices.

remunerative Treasurer Colonial Board-and Marketing tion in saying I am a supporter Board, as the Chairman knows, and I it where possible.
assist suggest recei.ved from the various industry, form may be b1ken and some definite a,u not con­ fn:ecl cerned 80 much with those at the top in the industry-to that we can build.

1·eports of the in a legal price which is satisfactory--!

that with the conflicting the producer, some evidence I am going to elements perhaps, and from of that esocutial policy.''

aud permanent fe,iture of nat:o�al I would suggest that this Government to the rice I do not which has which may be for several of coffee.
There in rehition prosecuting co-operntion with the question a coffee shortage.

of Agriculture a very reasonable as there are others to that view, but I myself to the recent decision of this kind?

I would refer I do not mean that industry Undoubtedly the position ur saying that this Department a retailer attitude of a half.

: Is there in the several Gov­ with cer­ in dealing adapt that policy industry.

alone, but in a sma.11 way.


considered of lack of shipping on account becomes more of ou1· supplies in respect acute daily, and we have to consider that this Colony may yet have to supply all our bodily needs.

I would just like to mention which might be express­ one or two matters ed in dealing sufficient ernment Departments tain matters briefly been given on the question was undoubtedly know if the hon.
Director would subscribe weeks to found it ditficult obtain coffee, Yet we have one branch of for Government in adapting instead a quarter-pound selling pound when people were gla<l to get what they could.

I am not cavilling in a c.:arping not entitled saying is that t1 ere is a policy ment ,u1d it is perfectly authority secute cause of the trnt1hle hoarding hut they Rhould not get at a man for of coffee a quarter.pound selling body when the difficulties known to Governme::it.
I trust that whatever having been said in a general hope, in a constructive the work attempt in any wa.y to dispa.rage I am asking that of the J lepartment.
this suggestion Your Excellency yourself are diHic.,lties of the Press to support have not quoted exactly may be misinterpreted You indicated some fillip interest of this I feel sure that the inhabitant8 and Colony will ,5uffer gladly, of Govern­ easy for those in they should pl'O• or not so as to get at the root or and, if there is any to get at the hoarders, taken as way and, I way and not as an any reform.

I your words, They but I hope not is spirit to do its duty.
·what I am which are in the of the community.

to ma1te1·s of the majority I have said will be mor,J or less indicated and that it may be the duty that the Press should give has in J our speech to say whether willingly that there· of supply are of coffee, to every­ be encouraged and which is unremunerated difficulty or industries change One year 'l.

'hese change in prices.


has been reduC'e<l, in the m·e some of the suggestions will be very little for the industry I ven­ ture to make with some hope that afte1· the fear of the price, to the farmer, the.re future and trouble as a whole.

When I s,ty fear I refer to the constant the price is $1.20, and the next year it constant may be more or less.

'l'he in the price i.� no encouragement to pro­ duction, which ;;hould which is necessary of opinion expression., try of Agriculr,m·e.
tlnit, itself s.iy that as the result war the price of rice should go up.

I know there i,; a l'e;;tive speak on rice.

But there is a feeling uncerbinty in the who have worked and are working to industry and refer to an­ develop by other passnge the Minister and who should be encomageci it.

I go further iu the report of sayings of Agriculture, the rice industry condition.
i8 finding Some people of the incidence perhaps, in a parlous ma,Je by the Minis­ I venl urn to suggest ·among a number of persons Member who will according to all the of of a gunran• h.:i.rvest.

f, r the pri1tci­ and an assured for the duration cnnclitions "The Government hacl, by ensuring prices for a year ahead, products to ere ,te wore stable np to to go fnr.

They ha� nowdecidad syslelll that the prc;ent market w,rnl<l be and for of hostili1ies teed m1rket at guaranteed pal agricultural belpei the 19!
I ther and to guarnntee of fixed prices maiutained at least one year thereafter.

to the extent to adjustment snbject in cost of producr.ion."

changes stantial lo receive wages would continue "Agricultural by the miniwa [Fe.

afforded t.he protect.ion uuder the Agricultural scribed The Government of all major Political importance h�althy Wages Acts.
,, representative a� they were recognize l the Partie!, of maintaining Prices w onld be of any sub­ anced agriculture as an and well-bal after the war a be given some consideration. """"""

149 Estimates, 1942 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-Committee 150 such reform.


I tl'llst that will feel that the Elected even in silence Your Excellency Members of this Colony are not only pay­ ing heed to wlmt you have Ra.id, they are endeavouring influence the Colony geaerally, criticism may deem advisable to plt�ce ment will be given every considerntion, and that corntl'Uctive which they Govern­ to act and use their where tluiy ca,n in tl,c interest in any form or slmpe before but that of Mr. JAOOB: It is usua.l for hon.
to speak and to get which we clo not quite who has just taken his sea,t, restive.

Members of Council to make statements here sometimes like to do at times.

I hope that when I make any statement under this Heitd it will be what I intend to make.

My hon.

referred friend, to me a11 being a little I do not think I am.

I think I am ve1·y cool.

I am anxious sometimts my point of view taken into con&idcrntion, but I hold I h,,ve alwavs taken an extremely in· this Depart­ keen interest ment.
It may be well to state that this Department on looking brains, that can make the Department cess.

If, howevet·, remarks have spoken, partment has risen from $112,:!46 for 1942.

I know that my hon.

friend, Director of Agriculture, me of being ungenerous.

tt huge suc­ from the of the three hon.

Members who has a poor personnel at it, one will think it has criticizes The expenditure everyone very st1·ongly.

is going to accuso I expect that.


men of initiative and eve1·ything in 19'.ll to $168,087 I gather al'ight which, this De­ the of to had concern with a had finished salaries.

as the framers Government, tlmt the ofticers ungenerous, to the Imperial but the taxpayers as :soon as that capital do earn thes I salaries.
I have Government to them, and the of the double the salaries I luwe no objection are not entitled claim that .M.y point is the taxp�iyers cannot afford to pay these That may be termed but if this Department sidered this Colony cannot afford to pay these high salaries.

not saying that I am, howevet·, the ofticers concerned them.

This Government will they are fully entitled Imperial Civil List, will also cla.im concerned no objection p ,ying these officers gP.tting.
they are now to these ofticers eaming double or trnble theit· of this country large S}tlu.ries.

ungenerous, been a priv" te business capital, the business would have gone into 1,ank­ has rnptcy.

I say that this Department I do not years ago.

bankruptcy gone into know what they do, but wlmt they do may­ be is wasted euergy.

I would not imy but it is mis­ some energy is not displayed, I suggest directed.
cou­ of Government sideration now to stand on our own resou1·cei; as we are not going to get any loans in aid or grants in aid free of interest .

from the Impe1fal to meet our expenditure Wo have to budget for it.

I say if a new era is to come in our affairs, is to be the dawn of a new era, I hope that era would c .. me to morrow.

We cannot go on tit this rate.

This is the seventh to speak on these estimates same tune .ill the time.

I cannot be Wl'Ong all the time.

I know I am perfectly right.


I am su1·e I am right.

for the careful that we have time that I have had the honour Government.

without them.

and sound the if there We have · I have to be ungenerom; n,t times with the results of $:.W0,000 up to the present, on this Depart­ we obtain results.

taxpayers'· money.

I would �gree to an expenditure vV e ment, provided from this have had very little and when I Department quote figures I know that certain hon.

Members do not like to hear me.


I am, however, quoting lency's figures Your Excellency will progress what help Government producers the exception see wlmt !ms umde and ha-., given to I he with l product,:; them for Your Excel­ ·information.

When I quote these this Department of agricultura of sugar, While speaking on the Budget motion of salar­ ti reduction 1 �uggested yesterdu.y ies.

J indicated cent.
J indicated cent.

in t-he highest cent, in salaries that suggestion I might have been con- of 20 per down to 5 per over $:.!20.

When I made a reduction salaries of 111y constituency.

Let me deal with coffee.

Coffee used to of coffee in given figures here of the < xports of has accur­ be the main product I have a statuu,ent, coffee.

Although Your E,cellency been told that we ca,nnot tell fairly ately what is the production thi� Colony, even if you are they are not correct.
ment, but I mitke it knowing say.

I wa� elected Western District pl'oducer anLl the year before-193i-3li These coffee valued $47,238 are the Customs with tho�e in the report of the Director tons of w:is exported.

of coffee in thi� Colony, In 1935 Member for the North­ That is a bold state­ fully what I of , which is the largest figures and they correspond 151 Estimates, 19�fJ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, -Committee 152 but unfor­ Dutch Guiaua, of it to-d11y.
I know that I will be about I he place and its and the hon.

Diredor and myself went to Pa.ra.­ for four weeks, and I claim $5 per acre under cultiva­ in regard to coffee there.

.

My figures a.re therefore a Select Committee of to go into the question of their views on every I say that if Government vVcst District to know something people.

I have mixed with t�e people there and can express occa�ion.

had come in at the right.


time and given the coffee producer tion for a period of not moro than three vears, there would hwe been coffee in this Colony and we would have beeil exporting to investigate cer­ it li�tle told thaL there is no m:irket that may hrwe been so some years ago, the whole world outlook is definitely now and we ought to be able to sell our cof­ fee within the Empire, grades here which c,tn be exported the Empire.
I say Government not be importing and made a report, I found myself in the minority.

I Agriculture This ycrH· only thirty tons of official.

coffee valued $240 has been exported.

There is a huge shortage of coffee in the Colony at the present time.

I think it was in 1937 that Government was good to iippoint enoug·, the Legislature the coffee iudustrv of Agriculture maribo, tain conditions \Ve returned tunately was alone in my recommendation.

though the hon.
though the hon.

C'irector and myself had agreed on every point tha.t help must be given to the coffee industry, when we arrived report was being "ritten we differed.

maintained industry the one who tills the soil, grows the cl'Op, reaps it and sends it to the rutir ket.

Jt is usual in British Guiana for such help to be given through merclrnnts never been in favour of tlrnt.

I hold that such help must be given t.; the producer direct But I found myself in a hopeless minority.
it must be to the actual producer, back in British Guiana and the aud what has been the result that if help is to be given the and their agents-but coffee into this Colony.

within should the middle men-the fo1· there are certain of Agriculture occuned then and changed I have Al­ [ for coffee.While I !peak since then.

from 1928.

I the change My hon, friend, that year because has been in control Iu 1'928 we exported of the coffee industry?

I have taken considerable 410 tons ,md in 194 l only 30 too�.
'l'hat shows what the has done to Department lielp the coffee produce1· have selected of our Constitution Government Si11ce 192d Government'has governed this Colony.

Government ha.s imposed its will on the people, in respect because fee!ingly in the matter.

I have worked out interest sevurnl schemes and investigated the matter £, om all aspects.

the Mem­ ber for Western Essequebo {Mr. C. V. Wight) can speak of coffee.
He re�lizes that coffee used to be produced tent in his constituency not 5 tons is produced lieve, has agreed that is so.

I have intimate and have of Western Essequebo knowledge been going there for :JO yea1·s ,m<l I know every yard of the land.

Then again in the J.lemerarn River District duced.


It may be said that the people in the North-West want to be spoou­ fed, but other 11gricu ltural products been subsidized not been for that subsidy gonP out of exi�tence-the would have gone out of exis• fo1· example, tence in this Colony.

But has Govern­ ment subsidized the coffee industry at any time '/--Never.

to some ex­ and to-day, I be­ there.


He had in some way and had it sugar industry, they would have District coffee was pro­ I come now to anothc1• point-Govern­ ance in regard to Lhe coconut has beeu helpin¥ Government meut assis' industry, The position to-day is th It there is no to whom coffee.

My ideit of when we should lie has taken upon coffee iu the Colony and we arn importing coffe<i now.

Government itself to import coffee to supply the mer­ chants duty free.
This money is going to our Sister Colonies ge1 ting money from other Colonies we had been exporting those export and import differs from in­ commercia,l and certain of Government interests terests.

Certain commercial want to import everything otherwise their doors will have to be closed.

Self-preSEH'· vation is Nature's first law.

In the Cham­ ber of Commerce of which I happen to be ti member for the last ten yeurs I cannot get support, lo import all kinds of stuff, coffee included.
d•1 not want to �ay it is doue deliberately, but the plJLin fact reruaius that �he people in my constituency duction Excellency superfici of the people and their general very clepres�ing.

I have been ther·e about eight Umes; I have lived in the North who live on their rro­ of coffee cannot do so now.

Your there, very has seen condi1ion8 itlly so to speak, but the physique but they get support are outlook I 153 Estiinates, 194f1 11 DEdEMBER, 1941.
-Committee 154 ..... everything of exporting people becoming by legislation ft most depressing In 1928 the Colony exported from August in the Colony that industry and by various means for some time.

Last year, however, we had to import coc ·nut products and coconut oil, and this year we are import­ ing too.

·when you look at the, figures from 1928 they preoent spectacle.

3,510 tons of copra v,ilued at $352,522.


In 1940 through certain extremely wise, 500 instead tous we exported 1,027 tons at the end of ,June.

"rhere was ii shoi·ta,ge to December; thought was picked up an,l exported.

They they were doing well.

They believed that coconuts could be picked and made into copra in a few weeks.

From last year on to this year we have been importing In order to deal effectively with the coco­ nut industry oil.
In 19:28 the of coconuts of copra were 3,!iOI tons valued at exports $352,522 iu1d the exports were of coconuts 321,635 nuts valued at $5,939 while the exports of coconut oil were 26,2'1:5 gallons valued at $24,427, the total value of ex­ being $::S81, ports of the coconut 888.In 1940 the total value of exports of the coconut ] 94 l the exports were practically This industry Government cultural.
Department advising Government you must deal with the exports ,wd coconut wai-; being helped by this in tl,e Agri­ industry was $76,58::l and in nil.

and certnin all the time.

with the experts wiser.ens industry copra.

difficulties.

'l'hat and yet we have 1tnd floods, staff of Govern­ in these matters, and overcome those roust be taken· into consideration.
may be so, but the skill of man is th;re to countenwt Proper steps are not being taken by those interested a highly paid and skilled I am not sure tlmt irriga­ ment Oflicer:;.

are not concerued with tion and drainage droughts it is Government's business with these things.

Government ing.

Government ean put through any measure in this Council.

vVlmt is the spectacle I ven­ ture to predict there will be no exports coconut in the case of coffee we may have to be importing That is my prediction.

on record.
on record.

industry?

that for some time to come nor of of coconuts but nevertheless to be concerned them for a few years to come.

from this Colony.

Like Let it be placed of the coconut products is govern­ I come to rice.

I claim to know some­ lines.­ Members of definite by Elected is on certain Hea,r !

Hear I) But fin:l themselves thing about rice.

I am a strong a,dvocate of Bmtrds.


(Voices: my ad l"OCacy BoMds control'ed this Council, to the people who when they attempt to mislead the people will misled at the polls.

'J hat is the test.

We ct1n do what we can but not as long as we c,tn or would like.

This indu�try to rnin.

It is heading headlong to ruin I will be told "No", I noticed in the "Daily Chronicle" an amaz­ ing statement and will be read in Trinidad West Jnclian around the West Indies.
It states : Record llice Crop-50,000 of ye�terday which has gone t•i the public tons if no further Our papers do go L;lands.

and other is going Joss-British In di€ s next year.

Guiana may supply all West I am ashamed to thiuk tlicit severnl Elected Members are associ,ited with a Board which makes such a de0lm·ation.

one hon.

Mem­ shortage There is a definite from superficial to contradict my fi­ and the con­ but the fact remains that the is being helped now and of oil .in this Colony since last year.
There is a short­ age now, J think, although ber had the temerity gures.

v\Te have the position tradiction, coconut industry ed.

I may be told its exports have declin knowl­ that I am spe1iking hon.

Members know th,it I edge.

Certain was connActed and had with a few estates to do with coconut plantations ; I know I may not something have looked into all aspects of it.

A coru­ })any had 500 acres under coconut cultiva­ tion and had to abandon it bf!cause for many years it could not pay its way.
The coconut industry, is definitely that the coconut industry-and stress it-had been and is being helped.

How is it helped?

"\";\T say it was helped to ruin?

I am going to oe told there were droughts ruined, but what is worse i:; about it although ould it be unfair to let me like the co.tree iudustry, and floods which Mr. McDAV1D (Co'oni,tl Treasurer): The Rice W arketing a dechiral-ion.

from a newspiipe1· BoMd is not responsible.

Board never made such The hon.


Member is quoting report for which the M.t·.

J AOO 13 : I am going to stnte what the Board states.

These technicalities will not help.

I am going "to give chapter in its report and verse.

The Board states -Sessio1ml page 7, paraprnph Pa,per No.

12 of 1U41-at I-1 :- Members with a responsibility 155 Estimates, 1942 .

LEGISLA.TIVE COUNCIL, -Committee 156 - --- - Unless any further the entire crop is harvested likely m·ate being 50,000 a record, tons of rice.
to constitute loss is sustained before the crop is still the present csti­ Anti()ipa ted exportable surplus to 30th Sep­ tember, 1940-30,000 was a "carry-over" year, the amount of which was unknown but might reasonably tons.

In addition, there crop be placed at 4,000 tons.

from the preceding That is wr·ong too.

1 am going to rrad :�nother report of this- Tm, CH A UtMAN: I must B8k the hon.

:IYiember to let me know what docu­ ment he is re-a.ding.

That requires a,ssent.

Would he just say what it is?


my Mt· .. JACOB: I read jusL 110w L<'gis­ 1.

'aper lative Council Sessional 1941.

Ko U of THE CHAIRMAN : Proceed.

Mr. McDAVID: I rise to a point of order !

Would the hon.

1Ykmlw1·, if he is quoti11g figures, not ence just above- omit to 1ead the refer­ Spring Crop, 1940-Prosptctive possibie in­ prices and creased special taken by the Government yield in view of increased measures to increase 15,000 tons.
planting under­ Which shows that the figures he is but the are noL the actual yield quoting prospective yield.

Mr. JACOB: This document stated TITE CHA1RMAN: You nmy ,·eply when he is finished.

what I stated as appearing Chronicle."

word.

It is practically word for in the " Daily Mr. J.vicDAVID: What the hon.

Member repeated from the " Daily Chron­ icle " was that this Colony supplied the whole of the '�'est Indies last year.

I challenge that statement the Board.

as coming from t article.


THE CHAIRMAN: That stll.temen came from a, newspaper I must ask the hon.

Member before re:tding from any document to intimate must ask what the hon.

Member proposes to read from now, a newspaper?

what it is.

I Mr. JACOB; The" Daily Chronicle" of Decerubel' 10 with refel'ence Rice l\'.farketing Board.

to the Tmt CHAIRMAN: Would the hon.

Member let me see what he pL'oposes read?

to (Newspaper banded to bis Ex:cellency who looked at it and returning that he could proceed).
it to Mr. Jacob said Mr. JA.COH: The report of Lite Boarrl Oil the 2()th November, l\J4 l­ gave n, fair enough w.,s issued that is the date of the report which was printed ,ind circuhited to Membel's a few days ngo, aud I have no doubt th11,t the "Du.ily Chronicle" record of what 11ppearerl report.

I have read paragraph Board's I wish to read now Logis­ laLi ve Council Sessional P1tpo1· 1()40-Report of the B. G. Rice .Market­ ing Board for the period ending 3 bt March, 19-1.0.
.Paragraph 8 011 page 6 gives certain in the Board's 11 0£ Lhe figures and states repoL't.

No.

6 of : Mr. JACOB: l Jrn,vc read word for surplus me to read the sut·plus in tho Hansard with the the effect of it is recorded 1939, that I queriec.l requires and the Chair agrees I Guiana Pon.rd issued 11, report to 30th 1940, will be 80,000 tons those connected strongly given by the hon U"1onial Treasurer word what appears here.

If the hon.

Coloni ,] Treasurer whole p11.mgraph will do so.


The words are " Anticipated exportrdJle to 30th Sl!ptewber, 194 0 " ,we!

this report is dated 29th 1\1 ay, 1940.

I am trying to make a comparison.

On the 29th l\fay, 1940, the British liice l'lfarketing saying th11t the cxportnble September, ol rice.

,Vhilc Board m,1,y want to minimi,,e the statement, of November, the figures Secreta,ry and Lhe hon.
Coloni,1,l in an interview with the hon Member for Essequebo Rivet· (ML Le<') and myself in November, they laid stress that we have :-l0,000 tons of rice to export in l(J.!0.

I told them tl111,t their figut'l's were all wrong and they could uot h�ve 30,000 tons ,,f rice to export when the exports for 1939 \·,ould be at·ouncl in 1938 the exports in l 93� they were 1940 they could go up to :30,000 tons?
Tlmt was what I -as a commercial ma,n for a long time, nearly the whole connected of my life, with estimates and figures rela­ ting to crops-sugar, rice and other things -could not imagine.

I lai(l stress on it in this Council.

l think it was on the :.

!Jud De..:ember, 19,39, and l asked for Lhe detailed figme� a.s to how that 30,000 tons appeared or in any docu­ ment that the Secrekuiat or the Treasury had.

I spent about six months endeavour- 12,000 tons.


Tf were 12,884 tons and J 2,503 tons, how in iu Lhe document 1939, ,1,nd Hl7 Estimates, 191,fl 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-Committee 158 ing to get those details they were denied to me, I do not think it keting Board's report happens to appoar can be disputed .

When I say tlmt aH to how paragraph in tha,t report.

Paragraph 11 of the Rice Mar­ . "

The present estimate 11 i:;ays :-.. being 50,000 tons of You have a statement going out of this ricc.'
1 will recollect tli,tt,, Secretary, of exportH The tlit1 certain hist one a8 li,to to Govel'nrncnt, to the Oolo11ial of an estimate Colony that we have 50,000 tons of rice to export in 1�42.

1 have written letterH as December 6, giving certain figures.

I would just like to refer to tlmt letter.

hon.

Colonial Secretary On page 2 of thu,� letter, dated Decembct· 6 and addressed I gave a revision for 1942.

At one time when I had an interview with the hon.


Colonial tarv, �ome time in October Officer Administering stater!

the exports ceed 15,000 tons.

The hon.

gentleman told me that he was making ,i note of it.

I wrote on the 6th December have revised that esl;irnate and have reduced given previous proved accurat-e. burdening like to read those ngnres.

to say that I of 15,000 tons it to 12,000 tons.


I have and they have figures I do not know if J nm but I 11 ould the Government, that from what I was able to gather of rice for 194:l would not ex­ Secre­ while he wtis Your E,ccellency, lie1·c J TaE CHAIRMAN: ·what is the hon· from now?

Member reading Mr. JACOB: 'The letter arldressed to the hon.

Colonial Secretary.
Colonial Secretary.

"On the 27th November, 1939, in this Coun­ cil I gave an estimate would not be more than 14,000 tons, and the actual amount was : 2,503 tons.

that the exports for L939 On the 4th November, 19m, I gave an esti­ for 1940 that the exports mate in this Council would not be more than 12,000 actual amount was 11,691 tons.

tons, and the On the 4th November, 1910, I sta tcd that the they were between so at the most the th"t the expo1ts for 1911 wuul,I u� 8,650 to11s.

Tl11J11 I for 1912 won!


1 not b, for 1941 would not be more than 8,000 exports tons and up to the end of October 7,518 tons, and I figured there would not be more than 1,000 tons to be exported and December November export, prtdicterl more Lhan 12,000 were taken 10 Board estimates be available Autumn l'rvp.

25,0UO the Board estimates of rice nPxt year.


H you have a gc,od Spring C op the exports would go up, but I cha lcnge these figures is µ'aced at tons, and so it is safe to say then that tons tons of rice woul,I after the end of the present ·1 he consumption t ,us excep·, pro1npt ra.np a �oo•l �pring that 50,000 measn res Cr p. The and I chn!lenge an export of 25,000 t,he statement."
I plead with Your Excellency to give me the details an opportunity of examining to export 8,500 to1rn While those t'CHponsible for writing unless those the .

of the entire ought to are w1·ong.

and even if from vM·ious experience The \Vest Indian being 29,000 tons, from 29,000 tons for began to control and wo would have \Vest Indian lsh,nds.

are given I cannot agree tha.t it arc given I say here 110w that can consume 60,000 tons of rice When the industry British sources.
he able to supply the entire with l'ico.

report must have lm<l details, details wa::; done in :he prope1· manner, the det,ails tho8e details Islands obtained Guiiina West Indian Islands Government and to help it in 1932, it wa.s tho hope of all that the exports, then would have incref.tsed been rtblc to double that with the i<leii supplying But we were doomed to disappointment Tlte exports declined that yea.r to 8,500 tons this yeai·.
If we u, o only �oing this the year, how at the end of November Board throws out the statement" ,ve have 25,000 tous of riec to export in l (H� "?

This Colony had ,m unfortunate One ltou.

,\I em­ in regard to rice exports.

accompanied ber of this Council went to Trinida.d 10,000 tons were sold only.

Arrangements wern being made to sell 20,000 tons, but the Board found itself in sup­ in difficulty plying 20,000 bags of rice.
It harl to be bought in Barba.dos the .Barbados that B, ilish Guiana lost $8,000 in th') re­ purchase of Barbarlos India and reshipped people connected, who about the rice industry, forward Si\les Colony lost, tho rice growers transaction in one single rice.

l wish to issue ,t warning hero that not more than l 0,000 tons of rice should bo solrl for export rluring ket has ,Ill upwfl.rd teodency.

arrangements a large quantity I do not pretend but our rice will be sold to the West lndies.
The "'est IndieR will know that whenever rit:e l;he1·e espe�ially know very little went and made with the result tlmt the is no nee ssity to sell in advance in view of the present of 1·ice Lo say that it is correc:l, nnd r;old rice in 1939. ha1·e been ma.de to S<lll a by arrangement in the \Vest Indies.

it will be sold there, rice imported from Government, I understand with the result is available of 20,000 bags of lost lji:1,000 19cJ.2.

The mar­ by others world with and so to Trinidad.


The 159 Estim"tes, 1942 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, -Committee 160 --�-- I hope the Boo.1<l is not going i;ituation.

to sell in advance or arrange advance.

the prices in At this sti.ge the Council resmued.

Tho r�RESIDl;;NT : The hon.

Member on rice.

t is quite right, has spoken for twenty minutes do uot think the procedure deal­ as there is no i tom OH the E�timatcs ing with the Board, and I would ask the to speak any hon.
Member if he desires his remarks to longer on rice to postpone the appropriate to allow some time to the considP.ration agricultural to pursue the matter lie should desires �ubmit a motion for the considern,tion of Board the Report of the Rico .Marketing time whcu it seems proper If the hon.

Member products.

of The Council adjourned for the luncheon recess until 2 p.m. 2 p.lll,- The Council into Committee of the Estimates culture.
resumed and resolved itself to resume consideration under Head III.-Agri­ Mr. LEE was present.

that the expenditure undet· criticism, the Council and constrnctive very which wants det.1iled e I shall take another I am not going to <letain long.

I think it is a subject a little therefor five minutes to make my points ab -ut rice.
I started off hy saying this Head lmH risen frcm $ll2,;146 to$ l68,087 ing now, ,Lnd PVery inhabitant expects that with increasing there will be incre.,sed increased produdion, but as regarus has gone down and coconuts production considerably.

in the es imates we are consider­ population a,nd coffee expenditure .. of this Colony in 1931 Rice production has gone down con­ all y too.

In I 93 l the exports safogu11,rds against exceed J 2,000 tons.
If, as I sider11.bl of rice were 21,331 tons, in 1941 they would be 8,500 tons, and in 1942 they will h,irclly said, active steps were taken to 11.dopt the necessary flood and cirought and we g, t a good Sp,·ing then whatever would have t,o be arlclecl to the 12,000 tons.

of 11,y facts that it would I nm so confi-lent not mn,tter reply to tho statement Your Excellency this industry have beeu here, so I shall endeavour bring home ,L few facts to you.

I have made.
I have made.

may not be familiar with within the short time you to wlrn,t hon.

�embers say in the Spring crop produces crop, Tin: CHAiftMAN : The hon .

.Member for .North Western District was audressiug adjournment.

the Committee (Mt·.

Jacob) at the Is he prepared to continue?


Mr. JACOB: l did not quite gather what Your Excellency tlrn t h,iving I should- spoken for 20 minutes said this moming­ on rice to speak on Board it would be THE CHAIRMAN: I merely suggested wished to continue that if you the Rice Marketing better for you to bLke the opportunity could be done, but speci,il within limits.

I would then be quite pre• rice as pared to allow you to consider agricultural ,,ffectiug motion which activity.
by Mr. JACOB: I hiwe complained about as this Council of this Council.

I have motions in the past, but the constitution moved sevenLl is it woul<l be constituted to move a motion at­ verv unwise to ,1ttempt policy when Govern­ tacking by Government officers ment is supported here and by members of the Uicc Market­ in" Boar<l who Me in a way bound hand ' s policy.

and foot to support Government Government's 0 G, vernment of coffee.

'l.
'l.

'here In 193D Government stated that there of rice as, it was said, there about it.

l£ there of rice next year it is going was no of rice.

It may be true that one bags of was hoardi11g was hoarding hoarding or two penwns had a few thousand but what rlo a few thousand rice put 11.way, bags of rice tUcan to a large Colony like this?
Tlie plain fact remains that the Colony was short of rice for several mouths, and steps were taken to advise the Imperial is a shortage to ue said that people are hoarding.

All those excuses oar ding, flood and drought.

9 ti ve of the taxpayers who provide the money to pay the officers, and increased other commocJity vision of the Department I am saying that we are not getting vVe are wasti11g money on a results.

Department which is oversta.ffed.

misdirecte ancJ that has been shown liy figures.


gl'own undel' the supe1�­ ture.

those I say that we must get results 1\ s a l'Cpresent of rice and rverv production can be made-It of Agl'icul It has d it'I energy in many rc�pects, There is no appreciable export of 181 Estimates, 194rJ 11 DECEMBER, Hl41.

-Committee 162 of the Colony with I claim the privilege :in<l Member of tliir; Council :ind wliat is more, no Government of this Cuuncil l. I lmo1v- expended speeches.
h:is tho right to '.l'reasurer with over 60,000 of 17 members, , which A$soei1ition West Indian is1n.ntl; .

It may besiiid sugar.

In fact there quantity to do that the Board is uot to do tlrn�.

.As a member of Producer's speeches.

H s {t was iin of this Council, then that it should have bern stopped.

But that was not all.


who was sitting is anything except Colonial exported for 110 appreciable uoinu around the conntry and making on tho the amount of money ;ubv�rsive Department that it i� of this Council.

No Mcmbm· of this well to have decreased production of Council, coffee because we cannot sell it, but ofl1cial antl ca•i the ,1ime be said of coconuts duirgc nn Elected rice?

This Colony can anrl ought to with ma.king subve1·sive be able within five years to supply the any :Yiember such a right'?
ontil'e abuse of the pl'ivilege tons of rice, but I am sui·e that prope1· I thought steps are uot taken to do so.

Prupor promptly step� ought to be taken immediately i\fy ho11.

friencl, to the so, :ind I say most emphatically right of me here, had to leave.

Re has present Rice Marketing resigne compe'ent the Rice consists to s y that 16 members of the Associ'l.tion unanimously decided the Bmwd shrrnkl recommendation ment took 1ibsolutely hon.
Member for Essequeho River (Mr. lee) and I felt that we were wasti11g ou1· time and we resigned Is it funr:tioning?

To suit tlie officiti!s.

in this (' olooy.

They are not given an opportunity existence ing our eyes to this fact.

Fe,·er·al years fairly ago one could see several large areas of dee growing the public roa<l from Kitty to Buxton.

ly anything rice mills.

Where are they 110w?

Mr. ELEAZAR: I must rise to a point.

of order.

I rlo not know tlrnt we arc discus1:;ing la,t yPar.
\Vhat point does that make with respect voti>?

I ,im sure I am citpu.blc standing, it has 011 the D,·partment from the As-·ociation.

Yes, it is, but hc,w ?

People are starving tl,at tho pers· •nnel of That be changed, was wa<lP but Govern­ l\lcmbe1· lines desired 'l'm; CHAIRMAN: Perhap� lhe hon.

.

Lleterverwagting Mr. ELEAZAR: You can be sorry if to eko out even a miserable Ho has been a Member by his colleague.

no notice of it.

'J'l1e I am in a pnsiiion am sorry for my hon.


Mr. JACOB : I To-day there is hard­ i\lr,JACOB: had several and we are clos­ alongside will arljusr, his remarks in certain what one Member said but J do not know wl,at hearing friend.

you like.

of under­ along the parts, to the dPbalu on the Agricultural of Agriculture.

I cr:we Your Excellency'� permisE.ion to tho cloha.te in this Council c,n refer to 6, 19 lO.
In the E:ansarcl December of that debate on page 129, the Colonittl said: - T1casurer report It is b improve of this Council for quite a hmg time.

I have hcen he1·c seven years and I have a purposo.

the lot "f the country cannot improve it as a Membm· of the Legislature [ shall resign.

at any time, and if I find that my pri vilegPs are being curtriilecl that gave me birth, and if I here I shall wt1.lk out.
I can walk 1,ut " I know that he toured the country and against character of a subversive which Government was then about so much so that he caused a groat made speeches the control to introduce, deal of upset in the minds of the growers.

That stopped; one I am not sure why, but perhaps reason an esssntial is that rice was declared war service, and it is not a very safe thing for anyone to engage in subversive TuE CHAIR.MAN: I have to call the hon.

Member to order.

There is the ques­ The hon.


Member has tion of releva.ncy.

now spoken for, I think, and we are discussing ture e;timatcs.

I must ask him to keep to relevancy before the Council.

and the miitter propaganda" .

,�!most an hour, item I of the Agricul­ Treasurer When tho hon.

Colonial was making that speech I heard him use the I $1-Sked him word "subversive".

"Did you say I made subversive ?

", speeches ancl he shook his heMI.


I did not hear every word he said, and I was am·,zed looking to find that I was definitely Sitting, c!mrged through the report of the debates by the in rul­ wure being debated Mr. JACOB: Is Y out· Ex:cellen•!V ing that in 19'10, when the Agric�ltuml estimates Member of this Council making subversive is to be m'l.de to tha.t at an opportune time?

ruled that I am out Has Your l�xct'llency no reference speeches, anti one hon.
accu�ed another of 163 Estimates, 1949 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, -Committee 164 of ol'der; the closure claim that I :i.m within my right.

that I must he relevant, must be applied to me?

I or that TnE CHAIR�1AN : I must rule that if that matter lte the hon.

Ill' ember is rnising must raise it as a porsomd question should be prc•p1Lrecl to permit him to address the l ouncil aL an appropri:Lte At the moment he must opportunity.
confino himself to the matter before us which is a motion on item l of Lhe Agri­ cultural estimate� .

I .

argument now, sir.

I Mr. J.-\.COB: Very well, Your Excel­ to enter iuto lency.

I am not pt·epar·crl any controvcrsi,tl will leave the 11ebate t·ight there.

T will n .. w turn to suga,r.


I have dealt with coffee, coconuts to show t.hat although to vote $56,000 more this year than in 1931 the production from 23,000 tons to 8,500 tons, and that in spite of that reduction in exports thi8 Council money.

I am definitely and rice and endeavoured of rice has ag,1inst this vote.

we have born tLsked declined is asker!

to vote thil-l additional interested coconuts and marketing of OL' indirectly interest in the industrv, .
Why 11:ts Go1·cr�­ an um;ympati,etic of those people who are actively in the coconut imlusbry, planting and ma.king copra.

Those co nected with rice planting, milling rice should he members of the }lice M arkPting Boai·d ; not lawyers i,nd others wh'l ha,·c vP1'Y littlP dil'ectly me11t appointed Board to look after the rice industry?

The sugar people have no cause to quarrel becau�C' they manage their own affair�.

No one thu·es to tell them th<tt thev must accept this or that.
They (I.re masters their own house, but iu the case of rice, coffee, copm and coconuts G ovemment comes in-Government powel' to govern.

The result, pr·i vation and unemployment the land.

clothed with the of is starvation, throughout Th iR · debate has been most uupleasant.

I am sorry for it as much as any other hon.

Member here, but it is necessarv that I shonlrl myself as I feel, an,( if 111y posit ion here becomes intolerable I shall resign my seat in this Legislature.
express to lengthy As regards the sugar inrlustry, in 19 :31 Mr. DE AGUIAR : It is not unusual those and may be tire DepaL"tment I oo.

We have seen progress the exports of sugar we1·e 1 J 8,946 t,,ns.

'l'his yeal' I think the exports can be safely put "t 175,000 tons.

Thel'e we lrnve some cause for con'.

(1 atulating responsible, of AgL"iculture there.


Why w,Ls that progress The progress conne()ted with that industl'y steps and done everything guarcl theil' mrnts, and thoy have been able to get that done.

I maintain that in the case of the other industries t�re not safeguarded the_v al'e not allowed was made because Lhosc have taken to sa!o­ intel'ests and invest­ at this time of the session.
with Agri­ when we are deaiiug Some of those speeches, for this Council to be treated speeches espt>cially culture.

it is true, arc inter�stiug, some cn·e construe, ive, but I am sony to s 1y that some ot.hers are r·a• h�1· destrnctive.

certain opportunity afforded to m,tke this Council a cockpit, and to indulge in remarks that are far from com­ plimcnt-ary to the proceedings to be able t0 Council.
tell you, sir, that it is not my inlention to pt·oceefl along those lines but rather to try to see in what way I citn render some assistance hon.

Members see·u to take the them under this head those rights and interests to be safrguarded.

As a matter of fact I am very pleased by the people, and to the subject possibltl right;s, of this m•de?

under discussion.
under discussion.

Thero is a Rice Marketing Board com­ iu of that the Head of It is quite fortunate posed of people who are not connected any way with the I ice industry-some them at lem,t.

I do not want to cu 11 names but certain connected way at all.

There There sh11uld 1 ice inc:lustl'y connected s�me thing applie, Board.

I am a strong believer The Copra Board should have a majority membern of the Boal'd are not with the rice inrlustl'y in any are lawyers !Lnd oLhers.
be meu connected with the in the same way es those to the Copra Brokers in Bo:irds.
happens to be a Member will be able that this Depa1·tment of this Council nnd therefore to take CtLre of mauy of the criticisms have been levelled fo1· myself I am VPry sorry indeed that when important ts such as this one arc under fire, so to speak, by Members of this Council the Heads of those Depart­ ments arc not permitted to reply on their behalf but have to speak very often through t.he Colonial with the sugar i11dus1 or some oL,hei; officer f:ecret.ary Depa,·tmen against ry.

The it.
The it.

Speaking 165 Estinwtes , 1942 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-Committee 16fi might be introduced who is a Member of the ::it the time.

I fur one feel that pel'­ of Goyernmen1, Conncil haps some machinery which would afford tho�c Heads of Depart­ ments an opportunity I cast no reflection officer who might be chrLl'ged mcnt to reply on behalf of ,i Department, but t am inclined those Heads of Depi1rtments opportunity would serve us in good stead.

werc· given an to reply thc1D;.


;elves it to reply themsel\'CS.

to thr beli!

'f perhaps that, if 011 the particular by Govern­ Mr. JACOB: To a point of ordPr.

Am I to uncler::;tand that Heads of Depa1·t1Dents not.

hase an opportunity debates Director of Agriculture au opportunity that my friend is saying concerned do to reply to tl,,Lt the here?

Is he suggesting will not be given to reply?

lYir.

DE 1\GUIAH: The hon.


Member wns that in this instance the would be Department I said it was very opportunity Departments ,1nu I when the Heads of those DepartmC?nts not paying ,ittcntion.
fortunate Head of this able to reply to the various criticisms levelled tit his Department, went on to suggest that pc1·hn.ps simila,r important were unucr discussion who are not :\1 embers of this Council might begiveuan instead of having to do so t.hrough Colonial Secretarv I no,·er suggested· Agriculture would not be given an oppor­ tunity to 1 eply to the remarks made by the hon.

Member because, the hon.


Member knows only too well that we have hau the pleasure of listening here on many occasions by the Heu.cl of this Depm·tment levelled or some other ofriccr.

that the Director of in reply to criticisms to reply themselves as n matter of fact, to speeches ag,iinst the it.
for that critic'sm, of this DepartmeJJt of 1frm­ ,is there is a conflict opinion and people outside of on the heavy side; Thern seems to be Most of the criticism ·is that it is the couf<idered bers of this Council, it, that it is somewhat t bat it is top-heavy.

some justification especially "r c have been told here tlmt we can grow and that.
On the oth 1· lmu<l \\'e luwe t,l,is been told that this country is merely 11 grass country; sui• ,Lble right in saying that the latter opinion is that of experts, to know what they are ta1king about.

thnt our soils are nut for this and ti,at.

I think I am men who arc supposed of opinion.

I - i-; to produce i:; top-heavy.


I submit, cannot justify such a large Department more than grnssy substnnces, of lhat As n. m::i,tter of fa�t several sUl'veys of our soils have been mrule, aDd we have been told too that the soil is acid and the• cf ore cannot be expected 11nything such as rice, suga.1· cane, mid tl,ings Rort.

'J'hn.L is where the e;riticism lies.


If are 1mt'sfied that we c.,n do no the cxpcrt,s more tbau grow grasses in this country Lhcn it seNns to ine that the criticism justifiad that the Department This Go\'erurnent, carrying many r,xports ", logists" l\'I r. (Eleazar) to them in the old clays, unless we s re gelt ing returns fo,· , ur money.

Our c"m­ plaiut is that we are n t getting returPs f r OUl' money.
I am entirely on the opinion, in rcga··<l tlin,t opinion is wrong and ,nu· soil is suit­ able fot· other things tlmn those we grow at pt eseut then perhaps thn,t "e shuuld c11ny 011 "ith a Depart­ ment of this size.

th, t Ii ave beeri t·xpres�ed of our soil.


If as my friend on my left it rnight be lLrgued a ways referred to the quality to it, so many dependent attached with so Sowe years ago I thin 1c it was ,LS a rcsu' L was made I vi,maiized a the old Board wns ,1bolished mn,de by me in this Coun­ out, of a debate under this Head that perhaps the old powers.

I was very disappointed to find of that of represontations cil arising it was suggested 13oard of Agricultural might be re• ivcd.
For some reasuu or another of Agrilrnlture or allowed to lie dorm nt, an<l the suggestion was put forward that it mig'.1t be revired.

When I hat suggestion Board wit-h some executive personally that the suggestion Coard wns not adop�ed, moment the position Advisory Board of .Agriculture I hopP, 1111.J I think, the Head of the De­ piwtruent amount of advice.

1 think it is a matter which migM receive consideration ngain, alt hough 1 know my friend, Member for Norlh Western IJistrict (!\Jr.
Jacob) does not like Boards.

On one occasion he no·.

It i� very difficult liim.

and ab the present is that there is an on whom depends for a certain by the Government does and on another fol' me to follow for the revival the hon.

he does Mr. J A.COB: To a point of ord01·.

1 h,ive st ii led here over and over that I am in favour of Boards controlled by the Elected Members of this Cou!lcil.

19.J,.2 167 Estimates, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL· -Committee 168 .Board · as incompetent.
There is no doubt that one of the things I can­ the members of the Mr. DE AGUIAR: I am afrnid of the hon, Mem­ not follow the argument ber.

A short while ago, not ten months ago, he characterized Rice Marketing Let us examine the peL'sonnel of that Boa.rd, I think that with two on three exceptions Board are Members of this Council.

one and the hon.

Member on my right (l\lr.

Peer Bacchus) There is Member who is not Elected also another here at the moment.
The Colonial Treas­ and urer, who is a Member of this Council n very respected of Member, is Chairman the Hoard.

I really do not know what the hon.

M.ember mea.ns, the members of that is another.

I am Mr. JACOB: I have the personnel of the "Boat·d in front of me.

There members of the Board who are not Mem­ and the Board is com­ bers of this Council, posed of nine members.

I state again that I am in favour of Boards Mntrolled by the Elected Members of this Council.
are four the incompetence Mr. DE AGUIAR: I would like to tell the hon.

Member that I am quite accus­ tomed to his interruptions, but if he had allowed me to proceed I would have the argument he tried to developed of the as regards advance Bo:u·d.

of the He said that the majority members of the Board should be planting rice or something consists of hon.

the hon.

Member to find a majority Members her·e who either gl'Ow or mill rice, to make up the personnel l:loard.

That is by the way.

like that.


The Board of nine members and I would like of the speak freely, all where there freedom of speech.

and I know of no instance was any closure on at with with the country circu­ and the rice industry to take action under them.

of the Colony.

I do not think districts, in the rice growing tlrnt have endangered within the last few years is the evil prop­ aganda that has been going ou throughout the country districts of this Colony.
What sul'prises me is that the Govemment of this Colony was not bold enough, tho powers it has under the Defence Regulations, There can be no doubt about it whatsoever that within the last two years there has been any amount of evil pl'opaganda lated around the country more particularly districts there is any Member of this Council who is as familiar as districts I :,m. I Your Excellency with information doubt arrive have done and several done-that been due to the propaganda referred.
It took several several I wish to emphasize before, did not take the same serious fakes si.

uatiou.

The sooner Government action along th3 lines [ have indicated the bettor industry of this Colony.

other people have has in the industry to which I have shapes and feel sure that if at any time desi1·es that Government view of the it will Le not only for the rice forms; it w.1s not along one line.
at the same conclusion on that score you will no it is surprising to be furnished that, and, as I �aid I he crisis but a few of the minor industries as I I do not propose to reply to any of the by st·•tements.

that have been levelled do not know what he meant Ly that at all, hut I must take when Members make con­ of the Board is here and of taking care of made by the hon.
The Chail'man I know he is capable some of the 1·emarks Member, but what I woul,I like to say is that he seems to know so much about He knows that Members of everything.

the Board are bound hand and foot.

I really remark.

Perhaps the hon.

I\' ember was giving the Council ence of other Boards he has sat on.

So far as I am concerned I am not bound hand and foot to the Board ; I ,im not bound hand and foot to the Government.
member of that Board I speak freely and express happen that my colleagues ment with mf views but nevertheless criticisms Members in the course of their remarks.

That is not my duty.

I am not here to defend Government strong excepli••n flicting not abusing doing so.

Reference sngat· industry champion but this I would like to say: that the sugar indm,try and despite by Government to assist an<l to control yet bfen possible organization.
There must be some reason, I frel sure that I am in has been made to the risen to again.

I ha,·e not the efforts that by the creation is obvious.

and he1·e I locul sales of rice, it has not the benefit of his experi­ to feel the effects of that is an orgnnised in production, It does not always The inference of the Council my opinion.

the p1 i vilege have been made 11re in agree­ to control of a Board exports the cause of the sugar industry, industry, As a­ I 169 Estimates, 1949& 11 DBCEMBER, 1911.
-Committee170 ,, pel'sons is due Io the of Government Happily, there are a connected woul.J refer to words I have used before that can be drawn fron{ The only inference that is I hat the situation efforts that a.re made by ill-advised to frustrate the activities in that respect.

number of persons indust1·y It is a very happy thing indeed.
I can assur� Your Excellency are :� number of people engaged in the time who rice industry think along the lines of Government iu respect of the organization set up, and not only that, the value of that organization.

who do not t,hink along those lines.

at the present that there with the that has been they appreciate also be shown the old Regulation with the same matter in order that you may review the mattet· from all angles.
dealing So far as these estimates are cencerned, I at once that the Appointment of Agricultlll'e the Department is to find the on the Estimiite-1" will to allow it by this time opposition, I was surprised that 'was given vacant I was inclined may mention of ,t Deputy Director again receive at least so far as 1 am concerned.

For reasons I have given, in my opinion top-heavy.


item still appearing thought, it had been a.bolbhed -but when I saw the note that the post was still to remain on the Estimate undertaking the post would not be filled, but that the· item would be kept on the Estimate in case better days come and we find it neces­ sary to make the appointment.
I think it was generally appointment that I have heard from the Colonial tary that it is intended appointment sider it very :i.ppropriate again in protest being made.

I do not think we should be saddled by the appointment early in the new year I con­ would not be mad�.

Now agreed last year that the £900 under this hea.d of such an officer.

with another against Lo make the Secre­ to raise my voice the :i.ppointment on the same last year that We h:i.ve strengthened the staff of this are necessan·.
by the appointment Instructors of addi­ or Assis­ I do not know which it is.

Department tion l Agricultural t.rnts.

Here I would sav t,hat I would not, oppose tha.t because it seems to me that those appointments We want officers to go around tl;e clhitt-icts of the Colony ll.nd teach the people wha.t they should plant 1ind when and how they should plant.

That is ce1·­ tainly a step iu the right direction.

only question cerning Instrnctor(;.


reason for that r1ucstion because AgricultUL'al would natunilly that is a mining district.

The I would p1·obably ask con­ those items is where are thoRc going to be stationed?

if I fi,,d they :ire going to put an I because The is obvious, raise an objection in the Mazaruni Instructor When the Director is replying to the me 1 debate i would like him to tell what will be the duties of the Curator.
would like to know ,vhat work he is going to do, Will he be expected s•\tCI., t9 close tho in �hti even - of th0 �0tm1ie Garden$ To go back to principles.

I know I will has of State.
I from the Secreta--y to a few items which in ought to be put under separate be told that the whole of this est.imate been framed along the lines of instructions received made reference my opinion heads, and the reply received was to the effect that it was done in that way on instructions from the Secretary As this is 1 he first opportunity since that announcement like to express instructions and to enquire prncedu1 th"t a1·e received instructions to time in matters of this kind.
was made I would my disagreement wii.h those what form of to nullify e is necessary of State.

from time I have had those the int1·oduction At a recent session of the Council I had the of this Colony as regards on lea.ve.

of officers but it seems to me to protest :i.gaiust which varied the com­ a change harl Office and nothing could .be done occasion of a new Regulation mitments payment of passages At that time l was told t_lrnt been effected m,der the Colonial Regula.tions about it.
I said at the time that.

I was going to move I!.

motion to give effect to my view of the matter, it can be done in ano·her in any desire to involve the Cou11cil lengthy debate on that subject, and now have given me an that these estimates to rnise the question opportunity in a different the same affecting it has occuncd to me that if I principle, brought of Yom· �xce1lency means of dealing way of mot ion.

I do ask that you make into the Reguiation enquiry to dealing OlliGO!
'B of 011 leave, n11a with them other than by there might be some form, but really pijrhnpii )'Oil lllll,)' with the pa:vmept, oi passages way.

I have no I have referred these two points to the attention ., 171 Estimates, i942 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

•• } • I -i •• :...._Committee 172 ing 01· will he take the place of the Botan­ ?

I would like ist and Plant Pathologist to be informed duties.

as to what will b3 his under which those who ,till the land lab­ our.

I do not know whether the hon.


Member thinks that the Department of Agriculture dl'Oughts, but we bav� d1·oughts and 1ve have floods.

should contr-ol that he could of the Chii.m­ I must, as Vice-President for there.

He did not tell us in what He complained from the Chamber\ tell the hciri.

l\'Iembel· (Mr. Jacob) tl\.at which is not at ber of Con1.uiei•ce, Noi:-th We,stet'ri Distr:ict he has made a statement all accurate.

not get su1>port stopped way.


I hope that when another ty is afforded of Commerce very often-he members of the Chamber• do not support him.

In my own vlay I alwa.ys try to support the matter on ,vhi(;h one which should be given reasonable con­ sideration.
him when I think is he desir•es him-he visits oppor·tuni­ the Chamber• in what way they suppor•t will tell the but he Mr. JACKSON: It was not originally my as abuse, I have always regarded made upon this Department and it has always seemed to taka part in the debate under intention this Head because_ the attacks a hardy annual, to me that this Department for special a few remarks in connection Advisory Board of Agriculture those who will under•stand of that Boal'd perform them to the best of their ability given every facility of that kind.
but I would like to make with the and to let that the members the duties assigned to advise on m<1,tters was selected and are I:h-.

SINGH: To a poid.t of explanation: taking to agriculture why more boys aie is because they at but if modern implements wer'e and there was �oine foi'm <If I said tliat the 1:easorl.

ri11t look upori it a� a menial occupation present, introduced mechanization taking to ag1'iculturc.
a menial job, we would find mOi'e bov� I did not say it w;ts as a menial occupa­ to tl,e difficulties has to contend.

especially a great deal depends C,i:,st, conditions and upon irrig�­ What is Govemment's Mr. JACKSON: I repeat that no boy looks upon agriculture tion.

I have referred with which the agriculturist In the case of rice planting, on the Corentyne upon weather an­ tion genernlly.

swer· to this phase of the question?

If hon.


Members consult they will see that in West Demerara a particularly large·sum of money will be expended for of assisti11g the purpose in irrigatio11.

the Estimates in this - by the hon.


Member for Nor·th District (Mr. Jacob) who speaks with a� glib a tongue as can be from one in his position, the views of the mat­ to cerlain I should like to refer to one or two remarks made very frequently Counc:1 Westet·n perhaps expected that he has ascertained whole Colony wiLh respect ters, and then he reads some resolutions ,vhich he says were subsCL'ibed to by the whole Colony, or by DO per cent.

of the population.
of the population.

and says ML JACOB: I read no resolution under There was one rell'.ial'k made by the he this head.

he thought reference.

was the helpless­ of Agriculture I would like to make In his remarks about hon.

Member for Deme1'arn-Essequebo ( Dr. Singh) to ,.,.hich special what perhaps ness of the Department stated that there are numbers of boys leav­ ing school who cannot find employment, and that an effort should be made to get them on the land.
He attributes that they are not there to something wrong in the Department It is a known fact that a boy who observes that his father or occupation a certain _ours to follow in his ,vake.

There is no desire Those agtic11lt-ure as a menial occupation.

were the words used b\' the hon.

Member who but everyone :to whom I am refen-iu"g, "is connected in this the difficulties Colony cannot but rnalize on the part of anyone to look upon .

with agricultui'e is making a good living in of Agriculture.
profession the fact endeav­ Mr. C. V. WIGHT: To a point of or·d13l' The hon.

Member is not in his seat, (laughter.)

Mt.

JACKSON: I hope the hon .

._.

en:t• will not he has re• bet· for North Western District deny that in all of his speeches fen-ed to what he regards represents tion of the Colony, vie,vs.

dangerous cil if it is allowed �O 01· 95 per cent.

of the popula­ and that he knows their I want to say that that is a very statement as a fact, that he to make in this Coun­ to go unQhallenged.
173 Estimates, 1941!LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

--Committee 17 4 those resolutions be are .As ,t matter of speaks of holding When the hon.

:Mcml>er a,11 over the Colony aud of getting meetings resolutions passed it should certainly rerueoJbered that those resolutions fur the purpose.

prepart'cl fact I am positive that if were taken to the penwns who are supposed to have ,tgreed that they knew very little manifestly Council, another getting ha,d been prepat·ed tlu.

t they represent have the views of the Colony.


unfair for two Members of this who go from one constituency by themselves, to Ray the wl1ole Colony and to which p,issed to them it would be found resolutions about them.

It is I challenge tho hon.

Member to go on persons he took resolutions of thinking of Demcrara true that among him to do that with any suc­ who do not think, or persons he will get resolutions of thi�t district to his resolutions and give the an opportunity to and to his remarks.
the vVest Coast residents listen I challenge cess It is positively certa-in for them­ who are not capable selves, but passed, I say again it is unfair to this Council for him to say that because people and they passed them, to ce1·tain thn.t those resolutions the views of the people of this Colony.

The hon.

Member says he insists wh,Lt is the underlying to ;;eek publicity?
fair to my friend, y sought and to the obtained person who sought and obtained it, I with warn my friend that the frequency which he refers to publidty might do l1im some harm and might be dubbed, as he dubbed some other remarks, misdirected energy energy.

It might be misdirected and the country 011 his part to be stumping flouting resolutions often proves detrimental on publicity, motive of his desi •:e I do not like to be un represent but publici here.

but Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: The hon.


A few shortage that complains to convince to be convinced by those reluc • him that but I regret to say some time ago of· a of edible oil in the Lefore the shortage.

but I am would have (Mr.

Member for North ·western District Jacob) complained definite Colony.

At that time he was SUf•plied with facts and figure;; there wns no shortage, thi�t he refused facts and figures.

I am therefore tant to quote further facts and figure:;.

The hon.
The hon.

Member further the Copra Board m,tde some shipmentH immediately tons of copra were exported, thinkiug whether the situation been better to-day if those few tons lmd 'When t.hat export w,is not been expoi·ted.

made only th,, hon.

Member could have foreseen and the drought that was corning the ptriod it would la;;t so as to prevent him.

from meeting his obligation an order "'hich had been accepted.

How­ ever, he feels certa\n that there will be no coprn or coconuts this to lie export.eel year.
I think I will agree with him, but it is due to the effect, of the drought during 1940 which has caused a temporary shortage.

drought w,ts prolonf(ed it has ,dso affected I do not think the imlustry from the effects of that drought until per­ haps four 01· five to be a member of the Copra Board, not because of my membership but because inform Lhe hon.

Member that every member of that Bo.1rd holds his �eat there because with and inte1·ested be is connected in one way or another.
coconut industry A.s I mentioned on the htst occasion certain selves.

I feel that they can take c,Lre of them• of this Council and I may In view of the fact that the months hence.

I happen I am a producer, the crop this year, and until late tliat yeai· will recover to fulfil in the M1•, .JACOB: May I interl'Upt if thhi speech is relevant to the rlebate to iL8k ?

1111B CH'.AIR:\L\N: The hon, Member mo.y proceed.

Afr.

J A.CK.SON : I am l'efening to by the hon.


Mem­ the debatei and I !tm only him that instead of charging 1•emal'lrn made ber duri.ng advising others with misdirected apply the same to himself adjutor who has been going about with the country him stumping beforelmnd to deceive prepared energy he should and his co­ the unwar�, with resolutions 0 to , Another _;_of exportr; all the coconut more demands for copra 1•ather in this_eount1·y thing which may contribute coprn this yeat• due to the for looal.
con�umption.

I hope to utilize this Colony not ei,:_po�•ting i:; the 'restdction fact that there ;,i,,rn product� we will be ablij products them at low pl'ices.

There is one phase on which I would like to of the question reply to the hon.

Membe1·, in l'espect of the figui•es continually I think every time the Council meets he quotes those figures, he wa.s quoting them because he desired for the past seven yeat•s.

he has been quoting but this time he said and �h11tj� than expol't .
., .. _,.·li 175 Estimates, 1942 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-Committee 176 that they should be on record.

I propose to refe1· to the figures he has quoted fo1· rach year and to ,how what is responsible for the reduced pl'oduction If the hon Member would take pains to the cs.use of the drop in the investigate production he would of rice since 1933 find that the reason I am about to give is the correct the Council in each year.
one, Although the people of this colony have the unprecedented ev•·n just when the a difference the crop by about of the after affects In 1935 our export 88,417 acres in 193:3, but owing to the floods over 20,000 tons of rice.

weather conditions and it killed about under been clmrged with hwiug very short memories I do not think anvone in tliis Council has forgotte11 floods of 1933.

We had a bumper rice crop that yea1·, the rice stored at the mills was destroyed.
29,000 tons of In that year we exported rice, but iu 1934 our exports dropped to 14,000 tons on account of the 1933 tloods.

The acreage under rice cultivation in 1!

)37 w11s 79,885 acres as against of about 9,000 acl'es.

figures dropped to 10,000 tons.

In 1934 we had a period of dry weather seeds were germinating 50 per cent.

of the crop.

The acreage cultivation then was 7 5.

911 acres.


In 1936 we exported In spite of the adverse in 1935, which affected 30 per cent., that year was excellent, unfavourable certain have exceeded those of l !l33, The acreage in that year was over under cultivation 82 ,000· acres.

In 1937 there was heavy l"ain just at the beginning whioh prevented seeds are broadcast and on acoount of the early rains the farmers were prevented They had to resort to hand planting which or course reduced the crop.
That year there were ju11t over 61,000 acres under cultivation.

conditions up to 1941, and I think it is known to the hon, Membet· that in many villages pumps had to be used for the put·­ pose of irrigating 1.:ame to the assistance a small pump but more than 50 per cent, of the crop 11uffered as the result of the dry weather.

in for the I feel weather conditions in that yea1· would the lands.
Government of the farmers with We ha,d adverse weather in the County of Berbice that our exports the 11owing of of the 8eason seeds.

The I must say that the yield and but from broadcasting.

!think Gove1•nment would be grateful any to the hon.

Member if he could suggest Board suitable and it't;igation that a drainage of lhe Colony.

That has in mind, and 1 mPans whereby the Rice Marketing foe the.

rictr could make coditions him if he ,vould crops.


I would support advocate scheme was the only means of increasing the rice production is what Government hope that within the rtext few years we.

will be in a position tiot; only to maintaip.

but to exceed the export figures of 1933, I know that this .Colony can grow sufficient market if we have dminaae and inig ,tionand use his energy in supporting schemes that are in prog1'ess his advice as an expert.
He seems to be .in e,1ery line, and if he cii.u give au expet·t any advice which will bring those to finality him and he would be doing the people of the country a. service desire schemes to the Colony will be gratiiful imd would take every advantage rice to meet the West Indian any by giving I hope the hon.

Member will, which they really of.

Mr. WOOLFORD: Sir, I have risen to the claim of coffee to the a,ttention support of this Department, Your Excellency, you made in your inaugural this Council.
in view of the remarks Address to mid particularly to Mr. ,JACOB : It is very difficult to hear at thiis end of the table.

I do nvt know what is the rea1:1on, b�t I have not heard half of what has been: s11 id by the last speaker, and I think my friend on my left would say the same thing, Mr. WOOLFORD: There is one thing I into his own or even into my I am not going to follow that for another time.

I have whatever to his political for the of coffee, and I agree that the to what the hon.
Member will not hear and that is any allusion excursions constituency.

the hon, Member in that direction; rese1·ve risen lo support the claims of his constit­ uency and his own representations recognition hon.

Member is entitled I have to �ay, although it would have the slightest I 11m a liiwyer any proficiency p1•essing tion of the coffee industry I was a member of t.he Legislature when the then Director a Membet•, In those davs there was no criticism of this Departrueut.
• but I am not p1•ecluded by in thtit profession I do not suppose effect on him.

my viP.Ws on the economic condi­ of Agriculture of the Colony, to listen He would was also from ex� ...... + \ ·� 177 Estimates, 1942 LEOISL�TlVE COUNCIL.

-Oommittee 178 to cont,1'01 27 of the Administration should be possible its price.

P,iragraph H.e­ po1·t of the Director.

for 1940 should be read by th• se who are advocating of coffee.

It says:- the protection of Agriculture variety over a period t thaL prod ucLion '27.
The area under coffee in 1940 was 2;f>75 .

Export s·\les acres of the Liberian became so res tricte viewed purely in regard lo domestic Low prices aged any but eoseot consequent were reduced, comparatively year being approximately for raw beans.

is no,v demand.

of years have discour­ i�l field operations with a in output.

Surplus stocks rose and remained at a for· the the average ei�ht cents per i:ound reduction prices high level, not have allowed ment.
it even from the Govern­ f have risen to suppo1t the claims .of to rubber.

In the Pomel'OOll who knew his job and not only by t'·e peasant of expert farmers cultivator in the North I think that was perh,Lps of his plant,\tiou and when he turned his coffee on the ground that it is a permaneut crop and enjoyed the benefit cultivation but by a �<:otsmnn was a very successful West District.

before the hon.

l\'Itmber was born.


He made a success coffee met with its mishap8 ;ittention River there exi8t8 inal owners or t11e descendants thoroughly I recall the da.ys in the Canals Polder when coffee was not a farmer's all.

Very prominent and private tations.

the Legislature.

enjoyed itnd I have risen to ask you, sir, to imple­ ment wliat was the attitude in subsidising Mr. Pias ,vas then,.
Member of l�be Canals Polder men in Wat· r Street a very extensive individuals understand to-day either this industry owned coffee phm­ product of Government ; it deserves of men who the orig­ it.

at coffee cultivation coffee cultivation.

We know tha.t there has been a visit by price and that price is being to support, it was decided of the question (Mr. J,Lcob) to Surinam, by to sub­ at a certain now.

It is ,L crop which is and we know that it to reap the I think that under present con­ the hon.
Member for North.

'\,Testeru District upon an examination the Government sidise coffee cultivation per acre, having regard to the then price, but we know that a better obtained entitled nParly weut out of existence simply because it did uot ptvy the farmers berries.

ditions of that.
ditions of that.

The Department can be of real help in suggesting ment that in the Canals l'older there should be sollle machinery l';lW beans could be propel'ly to produce succei:;s think it is ,L matter iu which the Director uf Agriculture could impress ment the necessity machinery of the treatment whereby the treated so as We know what on Govern­ for some form of there should not be a recurrence a better coffee.

which Wduld relieve of Agriculture of the raw bea.ns.
has fLttended their efforts ,tnd I Lhe farmers Io Govern­ Mr. Mc DAVID (Colonial 'l'rea�urer): Board I spoke on -which it was very for me to reply to criticisms (Mr. Jacob) as Chairman of of an hour, but on I pl'Opose to Le very brief.

The last occasion necessary by the hon.

Member for North Western District thA Rice Marketing for tht·ee-quarten; this occasion The rAason for my brevity is that I think the Council realizes hon.
Member has only used this opportun­ ity to relmsh statements, insinuations Council from statements if not a.11, are inaccurate, which he has made in this year to year.

Most of those and mo.st of them, criticisms, I personally are unjust, that the aµd adjunct on which I have heard expert and Holland.
Om· Liberian I have been Chairman we have a local cleman I and I know that it enjoys lL good but in All tlmt is now coffee enjoys the repu t[L­ tion of being not only ,L coffee of good quality but au indispensi1ble owing to the quality of its blend.

l know that because of a Coffee Commission opinion, export trnde not only in CtLnada Scandinavia impossible but which will absorb the entire crop and perhapi leave for expo t. It is the Liberian assured by experts, ingredient of some coffee.

It.
It.

suits the lornl taste, it has ,i ready sale and it is easily cultivable .· If there was ever a produce which is a peasant crop rLnd which i� entitled subsidy it is coffee.

It must not be over.

looked that sugar gets an indirect in the form of preference, frequently -�ugar industry and we have the in the composition a certain amount of he,wy clrnrgei; to some ,.
subsidy blend which, I alll is a very necessary in this Council relieved l Having regard to the fact that the people in Lhe Canals Polder are merely cultivators and having regard to the proximity of the Cm1als l'older to the Produce Dep6t their coffee should find a ready r;ale, and it of ground provis1011s, 179 Estimates, 1942 11 DECEM:aER, 1941.

-Committee 180 5 per cent.

of the.padi to produce in this Colony who would object to the continuance him indeed to produce of the Board.
I challenge growe1,s them.

every word which has been said in or not endorse the actions this Council concerning Member.

I retract activities of the hon.

I have said, an.d I one word, jot or titt.le have had ample justification for the re­ marks I have made here.

I have tried to of the speeches find out from the numel'ous hon.'

Member what is really the meat oE his criticisms oft-he Rice Marketing and I think I found it in a reJ.Uark made in this Council last year in reply to the President.
said :-'' If the Board ceases 1,roduction will automatically This is what the hon.

Member Board, go up."

There we have it.

It is the hon .

.Mem­ from Sir Frank Stockdale, go up.

I would of the the rice production idea that it is the Rice Marketing of the hon.

Member to paper No.
Member to paper No.

7 of 1941 which con­ bet•'s Board that caused rice production to come down, nnd it is his view that if the Board we1·e abolished Colony would quickly invite the attention Council tains a despatch Comptroller in the West Indies, by h'is Agricultural patch and memorandum visit ·of those two officers to this Colony.

� ·should Mr. Wakefield in paragraph memorandum.

just read very briefly a remark by 67 .of his an i a memorandum Adviser.
That des-· followed for Development and Welfare ,, ...

The Rice Board should r This is what he wrote :- ·eceh·e ev·ery for its oper­ it is essential both during and after the work and !l,S I consider to con.ti9ue support ations war.

It has.undc;mbtellly will benefit by exr erience," done good on the There are just a few minor comments I wish to make on some Member's remarks.

points of the hon.

difficult Mr. JACOB : It is c,xtremely at this end of the table to heat· what my friend is saying.
That has been our diffi­ culty here all the time.

I have just asked the attendant send •me the paper he 1·ead from and I think he lus reftised to a•k tlw hon·.

Member .to to send it.

THE CHAIRMAN : 'l'he hon.

Member clea, ly what paper he was read­ said qui·.e ing ·from, but I liave no objection lo that being repeated.

Mr. McUAVID: I read an extract Paper No.

7 of 1941, a from, Council despatch from the Comptroller fo1· D.::velopment Indies.
and Wdfarn in the West to tho Mr. JACOB: I am refening remarks he quoted with regard to the of the Bo;,u·d.

I would like to abolition get that document.

Mr. Mc DAVID : I think .

the hr-n. by himself to remarks is referring Membe1· which I q11oted.

sard report of the 27th August, 9 21, and the " If the Board .

ceases production will automatically I quoted from the Han­ 1940, page remarks I qu ,ted were :­ di�cre!

)ancy go up," .
)ancy go up," .

to which to this curious 'The hon, Member has To return to the details There we have a clear-cut to fall and wishes in order that pi·oduction i�sue.

The hon, Member thinks that the Board has caused pl'Oduction it abolished might go up, while · th� Adviser tci, informs Govern­ Sir Frank Stockd::i.le of the ment that in his view the activities Board should and must continue during and after the war.
I am gfa,d to say that by Sir Frank the policy recommended respect Stockdale is being adopted ..

I canno: say by the Government what form the Board will take when the ,\ s hon.

Members know, it is war ceases.

being ope1·ated Control) measure, ceases the Board will be re-constituted which will be passed by this under Statute Council.

We must take it for granted that this scheme of single-selling to sta.y, u.nd I I referred.

ag• in referred in his own mind.


In 1939, just as the Board started, upon to negotiate 'J rinidad the probable be.

At that time Sir John Waddington it and we were busily engag­ requested ed in trying to stimulate ing of an augmented forward our estimate in putting probable at surplus 30,000 tons as that surplus 15,000 tons Spring c1·op.
As I have said here before, the Spring Grop did not yield 15,000 tons bu� 11.0 tons nt all1 fgi• the 1·e�son, and we made an estimate le surplus the grow­ Spring crop, end of the as a war emergency when the emergency Regulations but cbviously an agreo1 ent �ith of what we arrived after including under the Defence (Rice in this p ,rticular .
;e llhe hou, M0mbor we were called exportable exporta i;ha.llen has come would "s tho the as the possible yield from 181 Estimates, 194fa LElOISI,ATIVE CouNCU,, -Committee 182 well knows, that we had a drought Council which w�s perhap� the worst this Cok,ny within living memory.

has experienced The hon, Member blames 1he Rice Market­ ing Board for the drought and has gone on doing that rice to export, year after year.
I hope that next year when this debate occurs agai , I may not hea.r anything 15,000 tons CJf rice.

more about this missing and not having Now we c ,me to what is printed in the of ably larger The at·tual 1f it is correct by the Department for the unseasonable rains of Agriculture to yield report of the Board for the la8t half-yeal'.

It is there stated that on tho estimate provided the Autumn crop is estimated 50,000 tons of rice.

The Department went further.


AgriculLure for this Autumn orop has been area planted than it l1as been before, conside, and the yield would have been very much heavier but which fell in Octobe1-.

that that Autumn crop will yield 50,000 that our local tons of rice then.

assuming is about 25,000 tons, we ought consumption next year of surplus to have an exportable into account about 25,000 tons, not taking of the any Sp11;ing crop.
In the opinion B'oard'"tliere is am�e ground for going ahead and trying to arrange Trinidad in 1942, and I have to inform the Council and the hon.

Member that negotiations are now in progress do get a Spring crop, ,,nd I think Govem­ ment 'ltnd the Department 11'\'0 going_ to do <;ve1•ythi increase then we shall have much rnore to expo:t, ng they cnn to of the Spring c1•op, of their complete of Agriculture requirements to that end.

If we production for a sale to The hon.


Membe,; adopted a word which two years ago.

I used first in this Council I used the word " technique" to himself acquired tion."

abroad "a technique when I spoke about his having in co-opera­ in reference Mr. JACOB: I should remind the hon.

Member that the word " technique" has been very frequently tion with the Axis powers.

Perhaps- used in connec­ .


of to and t•ice in the way to Trinidad and cutting each other's time in selling to sell to rinidad went about the country keeping it represent­ to before the Board deale··s Now we have to sell rice to of T inidad.

The Govern­ buy,; through the present I know what occurred came into being.

Middlemen, sellers their noses to the ground and t1·ying to buy rice as cheaply as possiblo sell it in Tl'inidad, throat.

That was their technique marketing.


the Government ment of Trinidad ative body in hulk and is not prepared buy in small lots.

If this colony is unable or unwilling they •wish to purchase requirements complete tons from India.

'fhat is the kind of we have to meet.

I do not competition want it to be said that there is strong com­ which of events petition but that is the proposition have occurred, with which the Board ha� been Trinidad.

ernment of Trinidad OU!'

whole requiremen'.s?


i'i yes, say what is your prict>.

If yo d,, nut meet our 1·equi1·ements buy from Tndia."

\Ve h ,i,od I am happy t;> be able that position, to say that for nrxt year this Col ,ny will pl'Obably be or will be able to supply Trinidiid faced in We were asked by the ffov­ they will buy their of 20,000 to 22,000 : " C,v1 you supply If the answe1· ,veto face up to at present with rice.
because we will Mr. JACOB: Do you say" pr,,balily," or that the Culony will be aule t·, supply Trinid:ul?

Mr. McDAVIO: Yes.

I am quite of the Council.

awa··e that the hon.

Member has put it on next year will be record that our exports only 12,000 tons.

I do not wish to pm ,s too much on the time to which There arn so many small details which have been the hon.

Member refen·ed buL in rngard b the before, answere.
:l of the Board I invite this constitution Council to refe1· the President Jackson, timo last year.

I crave the indulgenre of ds of the the Council to reatl a few wo: President's remark�.

He s_tid of the Council, the rice debate some Sir Wilfrid in closing to the remarks made by :- Mr. Mc DAVID: 'I he hon.

Member's reference then was to the technique marketing.

technique very familiar the kind of technique with which the hon.

Member is is not then that technique at think the meaning is clear enough.
received va.rious the Boar.I of the public it has the confidence all, that the.

independence be presorl'ed, l have from some grnwJrs, that that with ; not be interfered and, abo\·e of the Board should If there is a marketing They have gone furthcir that will opernte including sources, shou\.l very strong repre�entations th 10 in " I am trying to avoid personalities, b11t I 194f3 183 Estimates, 11 DECE:I.IDJ:;R, 194-1.
-Committee 184 asked in some cMes that from the influ­ I think it is well that and pn.rticulnrly the .Bonrd should be protected ence of some of its critics.

that it should representations well tlrnt made here should the effect 1 y different by a great many rcople, be known that there are 11trong on the other side.

It is not like those which have been an answer and a com pler,c- that there is another be made without sta�ements point of view very strongly held to say the least of it."
to Mr. McDAVID: You asked me, sir, what is the minimum export which the Board thinks next ye,r and I answe1·ed tons."

will go from this Colony '' About 25,000 is the interpretation the Board's of pai•agraph report.

11 a£ That was said by Sir Wilfrid Jackson in complaint from the of the that the constitution and certain regard to the constant hon.

Member Board should be changed, unspecified jn substitution appointments should be made for the present members.
Mr. JACOB: I would like to conect appointments were tl,at.

No specified suggested.

Mr. M cDA VID : I said " unspecified experiment that in the fi, st balance-sheet to fot· a long time before .'

Before I sit down I wish is that this which had been with able success.

The Hice Market­ appointments to say that my humble opiuion single-selling looked forward the war bas met and is meeting consider ing Board wai; looked upon by some before it started.

people as a failure I know that the hon.


Member fully expected there would be a loss.

I know that the hon.

Member has been expecting that we would be in a mess, but nothing like The Board hns pro­ that has happened.

duced satisfactory the price of rice in such a way that the what they are producers rice would be getting, and paid for.

I do not think I purchased need say nny more.

I have al, early answered by the hon.

Member, and I endorse every­ thing I have said before.
figures and has stabilize and that all of thei1· know precisely on a previous criticisms occasion d TEIE CHAIRMAN: I have just one ques­ tion to ask in regard to the total of exports.

I have heard it put at a very low figure by the hon.

District estimate forl942?

(Mr. Jacob).

Can you give us an of the minimum probable Member for North-Western exports Mr. Mc DAVID: I slioulcl say that is about 25,000 tons.

the estimate Mr. JACOB: I should like that to be amplified.

crop to be grown in April next year?


That Is that exclusive of the Spring and 1 am deal of Mr. DE AGCAil1.

: .A gt·eat our exportable sUt·plus, not only of rice but upon is dependent every other commodity, our local rnquirements.

I take it that it is the policy of Government, sure it is going to be the pulicy of the Board, t0 provide is first, and wbatove'i· consumption l for export will be exported.
availabl") when he endorse said that the present for next year's export is 25,000 tons, & nd no que&­ tion as to any Spring or Autumn crop is considet·ed.

all we need for local surplus remarks estimate the Treasurnr's Paragraph Mr. JACOB : I mPrely want to get tho I do not want any mis­ 11 of the figures conectly; understnnding.

Boanl's report s I ates that there will be 50,000 tons of rice n vai !able.

The normal is 25,000 tons, That loc,I consumption will not be dixputed.
consumpl ion is 25,000 tons there will be su1·plu� an available Let us have the figures without any make­ up.

If it is 5,000 tons or 50,000 tons let stated and recorded.

it be clearly I I ake it tl11.1.t if that of 2'1,000 for export, Mr. DE AGUIAR: The hon.

Member I are kept in y difficult of the growers fo t· their the hon.

Member would have oeen to confuse the issue.

to local consumption is enden.vouring When I referred thought wise enough to remain iu his seat.
It is extremel for the Bond 01· any per son in this Colony to say what is the annual consumption of rice, a.nil the arP.

obvious.

Rice is sold by U,o rcasuns Boa1d but luge qu,ntities the possession own benefit.

It is therefore difficult lo arrive at any reasonably accumte estimate sumption assuming quite prepared According BoHd it is estimated rice will so that it only needs a simple snbtrnction to find out the exportable It doed not need any argument of what the local con­ of rice is.

The hon.
The hon.

Member is th:i.t it is :l5,000 tons and I am surp!us.

or dispute.

by the to the figures submitted to accept his figure.

be produced extremely that 50,000 tons of next ye,11·, 185 Estimates, 1942 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, -Committee 186 THE CHAIRMAN : I think the point has been sufficiently ventilated, rice.

F ice Marketing Mr. LEE: I would like to dr,1w attention Government's to one or two things.
Government has deemed it advimble, through the Board, to iucrease the price of rice by 20 cents nn the bag, hut it has not deemed it ad vi sable to fix the price of milling If Government has not the power to do Sf) I think it should hn.ve the power.

In my constituency the fees for milling per bag.

Therefore thinks it is giving 20 cents per bag more to the growers in order to encourage no such thing is Leing done.

The growers c�n only he aesisted in rf'ntal, milling fees, reaping implements.
Government to see that the millers increase their fees.

the millers have iucreased by more than 20 cents bags and ask do not the cost of T r,;spectfu'ly if there is no increase when Government them, There is also the qu%tion of grading.

that he might .

a,,alysis if he so ihe When the Police take mmples of milk from milk vendors for analysis one S3mple is given to the vendor in ordet· ·secure an indPpend�nt desires.
In the case of rice grading owner of the rice only has a right of appe,d 11gainst the gradin •.

In some cases their apprnls aro upheld, but on the whole the system is not satisfactr,ry.

I wrote Government suggesting of cerl ain gentlemen who know· about rice and grading to Ree thBt the growers of their rice.
I am renewing tion to Government people as licensed a seller can take a portitn of the sample of his rice and have it graded indPpendently of the Board's in the grading thiLt applica­ to appoint competent office,·s the appointment in the community get fairpl,,y gradiog grnciiog.
to whom I am ·also appealing to Government to Hnd a proposal to appoint Mr. McDAVID: On the question of fees the Board fully realizes the is uow uncie1· con­ Author• milling position, sidern,tion ity under the Defence Re_gulations which would enable the Board to take action in suitable Naturally to fix milling fees.

cases if considered it i� 1 n extremely a Competent difficult thing nece�sary.
I will a�k the to deal with that As regard� the gr:1ding of Agriculture when he replies Dit·ector que�tic,n Ho has recently gt·uwers on the subject, convinced them that the ment is probably the best.

spoken to a, batch of and I think he has preset1t arrn11ge­ to the deb,ite.

:M:1·.

JACOB: I would like to t'efer made by sentence will automat­ which reads: "We 11gree I made in reply to the Chairman to the quotation when he spoke· just now.
Your Excellency the Tr('asurer He refened to pa,ge !l21 of the Hansard of August 27, 1940, an<l read: "IE rerot·t the Board ceases production ically go up!'

In doing so he left out tho previou� to differ on th ,t point."

That was the statment who said : "From your own showing it seems to be so."
This portion of the Hansaru does not sho,v it dearlv, I.mt I ]·ave stated here over anrl over th:i°t I am against the presE,nt I have stated it over and over, and I can pro­ duce numfirous debates to show that I am in favour of control kind.

The hon.

Memher f1Jr Esscquebo River (.Mi-.

Lee) clearly.

st11tecl that but control that quotation to the Cuuncil control.

J,ern I made that point quite clear to him.

Since that suggestion have taken every opportunity point explicit.
we }rnvo no ohjection of the right krnd.

In making to con\'fiy has m,i,!e the point quite we have gone I ha,ve was put forward I to make that I am not.

When Mr. Hall wns met hod of control.

but control Wherever of the right to c'lntrol at the Loan Banks for afford rice growers on•ry facility to ob' ain loans rice growing.
The Rice Ma• keting Board does not assume that responsibility, but if it is to manage the rice industt·y it should have all the powers, including so as to pre­ vent it from throwing the responsibility any failure on any otlier Department.. rice growers in this Colony are in agrce­ men t, lhat the single-sd!er be�t.

(" Hear, bear").

I endorse that view, but I say that it is uot being prop­ erly administered.
the making of loans, necessary for The policy is the We will have another opportunity therefore more this after­ to-mon-ow to tn.lk about .

t he Rice Grading Inspector, I am not going to say nnything noon.

I do object very strongly si·nti,nents exprrs�ecl for Ceatral I will refer tho Council to certain things when we come to the item "Rice Grading Inspector " on the· following by the hon.

Member (Mr. De Aguiar), Demerara page.


to the and my friend de�it-ed tl,at I am defiuitely against 187 Estimates, 194ft 11 DECEMBER, 1941.

-CommitteP.

188 J mu, referring .

to lawyer who is never present in this He is on the Board.

I would of the Rice that.

(laughter).

another Uouncil, like to ask how many meetings Board have been held and how Marketing The many the hon.

Member attended?
Member attended?

Hice Producers'Advi�ory Committee, which co1llprises 17 membt-rs, rec­ unanimouoly ommended when 16 me111be1·s th11 t the per�onnc-1 should be changed No names were suggested, mcnt definitely Boa.rd.

Member for Essequebo and 1 resignrd was as the result of the debate in this Council from which those words were skilfully selected ago.

by various dedinerl The result 11 as that tho hon.

but the Govern.

to change the were present of the theu Hon.rd by at least 50 per cent.
from the Committee.

It by the Trt>asurer Biver (Mr. lee) said about a while on a strClnger something to the question of a ceu tral m;ll.

I r:1ui but I think the Rico are Board and the Trea�ure1· that I, m insistent to Mr. C. V. WIGHT: It is difficult what the hon.

Member says of coutrol.

by G,,vcrnment., 8tep to the tc with what the hem.

Mcmbe1· fur River (Ylr.


Lee) has understand when ho refers I agt·ee with control 1VT arketing fully aw,ire form of control in the nature of a preliminary establishment ngrfl� Essequebo After all they are in tho the millers.

who liave it in liands of the merchants their power to call them to ot·d<ir i,1 the I have nothing of the community.

i ntercst to add to that stat0mcnt, but th<,se furthel' will be al.le to pe1·,011s to whom it refers dr,tw whatever they like.

I agree with tho hon.


Member thitt the in­ crease has been practically forms of increases.

control the full benefit of a stabilizei.l wou'd not be suliject Perh ps it would cleat· cor1-�iderably an independent persons who desired as to what they consider the control good one saying that he agrees hut control of the right kind, an<l not s,iy­ in,!

:{ what is the right kind of control.

ed to be wrong in of the rice industry.


It is no negatived We want a form of of 20 cents per b 1g to the grower committe'3 inference so that those price which wh:ch would ensure tu the producer witli control the atmosphere it Government appointed to might give evidence \Ve suggest Hiat people who n re milling to my friend and marketing should be on the Board.

[ in the industry-those who are rice, and of mRrket­ engaged planting, those who know the technique ing (la,ughter) have no objection the hon.
:Member for Centrnl Demerara.

(Mr. DeAguiar) or the hon.

Member for West­ ern Berbice (Mr.

Peer Bacchus), but I to the tuke strong exception certainly being on the Board.

I Colonial do not know why the Director of Ag• icul­ ture is not Chairman of the Board, or even Vice-Chairman Macnie as Vice-Chairman objection Council, who have a responsibility being on the Board, but I take people, stt·ong exception Board who should be removed possible.

to four members of the as early as of it.

\\"e have Mr.
\\"e have Mr.

I have no to other Members of this Treasrer to the Mr. JACOB: The right kind who are phtnting The · people intrested try and no one else-no in rice should control lawyers of control.

and arc the imlus­ and othe1·s.

Mr. WIGHT: The hon.

Member has forgottP;n that the hon.

Member for Esso­ quebo River (Mr. Lee) is a lawyer.

That is where he finds himself in difficulty.

to any fluctuations.

Mr, JACOB: I will not 'l·orry about 10.30 a.m. the following day .
The Coucil resumed and adjouureu until .....