Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698067984476.pdf (Guyana)
S81 Members Present.

882 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

l'a1Jc1·.� Lc£icl.

COUNCIL LEGISLATIVE The Honourable H. C. Humphrys (:\I ember for East IDemerara).

Friclay ls t 111 a1•ch W29 Tl1t:!

Iloncrnrah!e A. V. Crane, LL.TI.

for ·west Demerara).

Loi1d., (:Member ,The Honournble E. A. Luckhoo i(Senior llfember for Berbice).

The Gowicil met v111·s1innt to adjoiwn- ·rnFJ GovFJHNon.

IIrn Exn,u,r-::s-ci: 11ic11t, JUemucr for -Georgetown).

l3nrn.\nr1m.fmxE1:.1r, Srr.

f+onnox Cu<:r:rn- (Jru1ior 111::no, Chai?'.


TJ.ie Honom·nblc .r.

Rl<'n;r,nr for Xew Amsterllam).

., D.S.O .. President, ::\[rml,er K.0.

::.\I.G (JuJJior in the Tl:e Ho11011ral,Ie PN<:y C. 1Vigl1t :The Honournble A. R F. ·webber, PRESEN'r.

The Honourable (Mem- J. Gonsalves The H011ournl>le th<> Col011ial ber for GeorgetoWJ1).

Secre· '!

'he Honourable J. Smith .

(Nomin• F.TI.G.S., .

(,Tm1ior l\Iember for Berbice).

tnrr, ML'.

C. Donglas-Jo11es, v-Gen· The HonouJ'able t.l1c .A 1-tome: C.:\LG.

ntc<l.
ntc<l.

Unofficial l\Iember).

l\fr.

IT�dor .To1,P1>hf'.

.-.1·nl.

J.T,.i\'I.

(Cantab.

), Tlw IT onourahle K.C., R.A .. LL.R (Lo11d.).

A.

'P.

n. A nstin (�omi11atcl1 Unofficial l\iember).

MHfCT.TES.

TJ1e T-Ton011ra hle T. 'I'.

Smellie (Nominnted Unoffici al :Hember).

The Henomable F. 'Dfa.s (Nomina• The mim1tes of the meeting of the as print­ on tl1e 28th February, Council ed m1cl circulatcll, were confirmed.

tell U11official i\Icmbcr).

The ITononrable T. l\[illar<l, Colonial '.freasnrer.
P .A PERS LAID.

The followi11g reports were laid on l\fajor tl1e H0110111·:1lole Gra�·.

l\LA., (Oxoi1.

), Dh-eeto1· l'h.n.

(1,,lin.)

'\V.

P.nin .

Il.

Litt of F,,l11rnii011.

.J.

S. Dasl1, B.S.A., The IIQnoural1le of Agdculture Director .

tl1e fa hle :- The Honoura.bfo R. B. Brassi11gton Esse• l\fember for �odh-West (Se11ior qnebo}.

The H011011rahle R. Y. Bn111 1Vong-.

l\Iember for South-East R.Sc., '(Senior Essequebo).
W. R. IL Colonel tlte IIonouralJle Bra(1lmrn, Jnspeclor-Gc11c1·:11 of Pol-ice.

l\fnjor tl\C Hononra,blr.

.J.

C. Cnlig, D.S.0., nircctor of Public Works.

Report of the Chail'man .

Poor Law Co111miasio11er ,;01 8rrrrtrrry).

s, for the year 1928.

(001011- Reports rlinance December, under the Foods and Dr11gs Or­ for the half-year ended 31st 1928 (T'rofr,q,q11r Report of the Georgetown fln•lt).

Public Free for the year 1928.


(]fnjor r:,·au) Library 'it wo111!1 Notice waR giYen thnt at tl1e next be .movecl tlin.t• tl1e mrct.i11_g f'omwil do app1•oye latin.!!

to rnte,-of po"tnge 'Cn11ada.-(Golo11ial Scrret<iry).

on 11arcels re­ to of Reguln.tiom; The Hononrahle B. n.. ·wood, l\l..A.., Conser,·ator of Dip.

For.

(Cant::lb), Forests.

ThP Honoural1lc J. l\follin, A.I.J\f.M., ORDER OF THE DAY.

F.S.I., Commissioner l\fiJ1CR.

of Lnnds and .

The Honourable N. Cannon (Senior Member for (Jeorgetown).
The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. 'C.

Douglas-Jones) mis'sion first item on the Orcler of the !Day be : With tl1e per­ of the Counc'il I ask that the SS3 To1i;n Oo1111cUs Bill li\1.\RCII 1929 -Second Reading.

S84 takcu after the second as a matter of c01n-cnicncc to take the second item 1irst.

to the Attorner-Gencral or employment period of twelve consecutive months the sum of five hundred dollars.

does not exceed in any In other words it disqualifies candi­ l'cnnis:;iuu granted.
'TOWN COUNCILS H.EGUL.\TJON BILL.

(Mr.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL either becoming : I move tlte second for elec­ of certain that the of the Councillors shall l;e vacant disqunlifiecl and to empower the ouncil to <lissolve conclihons."

under certain Hector Josephs) reading of "A Bill to provide seats of Electetl llfayor and Town Counril of George-.
town an<l the l\fayor ancl Town Coun­ cil of New Amstcrrlam on t!Hiir tion or on the Jiappening otl1cr events, Governor-in-C Town Council The Bill relates, sir, to tile :;;cats of of either Town Councillors Elect.ed Cotmcil ancl the object of it is to make tile same provision each as to the vacatton does 11ot affect the question tion for elertion in dnm,c 22 pro,·isio11 for clec·ti011 fica1.ion tract ·with tlic Council.
f<t.itntcs the cx.iRting which says: trart, a new provision one in relation in place of to any con­ save in regarcl hy reason of a con­ Clause 22 sn li­ to t,he :rn to <lisquali­ in respect, of of scats.

It of qualifica­ No person shall be ca11able of being elected a Councillor elected, who:- shall sit o-r vote in the Council, or, having been .�o of certain contracts dates in respect but it permit:; a direct contract memher with the Council of $ii00 a year.
In place of that there is sulmtituted respect, Is either to contracts, directly which reads:- 01, indirectly a new clause 22 with primarily to the extent of a In any contract such con­ interested Council even \though or 0N1erwise with the tract shall by virtue of the provislo·ns ,,f any O,rdlnance vicled that no person shall be deemed to he so interested the mea·ulng :-1nly of his having any share or interest in any contract withh be null and void.
Pro· or this sub-sectio n ·by re11se>n (i)any agreement money only, or in for the loan of (ii) any newspaper vertisement the Council relating be Inserted, in which any ad­ to the affairs of or (2)an)' incorporated or hO<ly of 11r·rso11s.

company, society That becomes tl1e disqualification for on that pa rticula .
The first iu clause 3, with regard to contracts part of the Ilill provides, fo1· makilig tlie :-;eat of a Councillor vacant if he becomes disqnaliflecl election The grournls fol' clisqualificat.ion the same on both Councils.

tlie proviso-clause 22-that, shall not become vacant of a Counc:illor inter· merely by reason of his being it appears eRtccl in a contract 1hat t.l1c contract ·with the actual Jrnowlcdgc has been entered of the Coun­ 1· Council.
arc 11ot There is the seat 11nless into (3)Is the holder of any place of Drofit or the Conncil or or hiS by himself any or surety.

or indi1•ectly, either as principal In the gift or disposal has, di.rect partne:r, nhar·e or interest tracts or employment half of the Council, provided: In any co'Otra.ct or con­ with, by, or on be· save as hereina(ter cil.

Tl1at is to imy, if an officer of the Council goes into a man's place of arnl purcl1ases ilnrniness floes not co11stit.utc him it, fi<'ation h!
'C';l11S(' it iR i;pcciall The proviRo Counl'il ii-t]1c uRnnl one where t]1c of it.

haf' no lmowlci!ge something from ­ a rlisquali :'· (':(•·.

;ptca PJ>ovlcled that no person shall be from being a member of the disqualified Council-· The nrxt point is With regard to the vacatfog the gronrnlf' scat liccomeR of ia:cnts.
Tlie clause sets out (lrn1 conditions on which a m11ncly: vacant, (2) By reason that he himself, or any has directl y 01· indirectly, his part•,,er, Rhare or interest tracts or employment wil<h the Conncil where the whole amount payabl<?
ceivable under such contract or contracts or con­ In any contract or re­ excuse (a)if he fails wit11out :reasonable <t.he proof whereof t.al<e a!1tl subscribe cliarge the duties of his office withi.n shall be upon him) til the oa.th and clis­ foul' SSi:i Tomi, Oomzcil.s Bill 1 MARCH 1929 -Seconcl Reading.
SSG meetings after his election, ahsent from four consecutive his · Council, or shall be cf meetings or, (b) if he is adjudicated a bankrupt or insolvent any part of His Maje,sty'8 possession�, in the United IUngclom or in or, (c)if he is declared or found by any competent hi any part of His Majesty' sions to be nrm oumpus inc1tti8; Court in the United Kingdom s possc�­ Or (cl)if he is sentenced to death, penal se1 vit.uue o,· impri3oi.mont labour o.-for a term exceeding months in the United Kil:gdom r,art of His Majesty's or lu any possessions.
thr0e with hard of the identity ·Lu l>e 111.1.lle shall cause an entry the order of tl1e Conrt beii1g produced the i\Cayor, if satisficll of the Councillor, of the vacancy cilJ01· Councillor the Com1cil ot:cmTed nfter bei11g satisfie<l declare ue entered is provision from a dcciidon is vacant.

of the seat of the Coun­ Some 011 1 he minutcl:I. of may bring to the notice has the fat:t that a vacancy tlie Council, , can 1,y cYillence the seat nlcant when it would on the minutes.
for an appeal to the Court that a seat and in that case of a Council 'l'hen tJ1ere .

Clause 10 gives authority to the At­ voter 01· any registered has become va�ant in a case torney General to apply to the �npr<>me Court for an order decl:ll'ing that the seat of a Councillor where the Council cletermination the happelling seat has become vacant, month after tlie decision that a scat has 11ot become vacant.
The otl1er of pro(!eclurc relating docs not come to a within hvo months after of an event whereby the or within one O!f the Council arc in respect to matters of appeal.

clmises power or exceeds the Council of its dutieR, of foe Council to per­ in Part 2 of the Bill cleals with the dis­ ancl clause 15 if in his opinion is not competent Power is conferred solution gives to the Governor-in-Council to dissolve the Council form, or persistently makes default the performance or abuses its powers.
on the Govern.or-in-Council a Commissioner the place of the Council fun power to perform also power is confenecl on the Council, to order the elec­ Governor-in-Council tion of members of the Council.

The deal with procedure other clauses with reganl to election subsequent to disso­ lution.

or Commissioners :who will have t.o appoint the duties of the in a whether prov1,;10n and a Councillor made ,before or after he shall be null and with to the evi<lence matters.
Clause 5 that a c:mtrar.t, into between or in which or in­ is directly Clause 4 relates regard to certain J11akcs which has been entered Council such a Councillor directly pecuniarily inter­ or otherwise ested, became a Councillor, void Ullless (a) if made before he be­ came a Com1cillor, to his nomination subsequent tifter enterefl of the Governor-in-Cou11cil.

of these two Ct'ntlitions qualification son makes a cont1·act a ncl is elerted to the Com1cil qualified tl1c contmct becomes void.
it lias received prior as a candidate the or (b) if made it has been he became a Councillor, into with the cxprelis being dis­ null and would not exist.

If a per­ with the Co1wcil obtain then tlis­ approval; sanction If either Clause 6 is tllc usual provision that to any contrac·� and .

,Then there shall have any vote on relating 110 Councillor ally question in whiclt he is interested is in clause 7 a penalty for sitting voting after a sent becomes vacant.
Clause 8 is the usual provision that a seat shall not be deemed to be vacant until the fact of snclt vacancy or on the minutes entered until the Supreme Court shall have de­ clared the scat to l1e vacant as provid­ ed in tlie Ordinance.

't.hat certain comes vacant, tlie usual in a after the Court lrns decided seat be­ in �opy 9{ way that a Councillor's that is by evidence way, on a certifieg, has been of the Council Clause 9 provides the procedure Those arc the points in regard to the in nm.
It generalises in so far as a regard to both Councils 'member loses his seat by reason of be­ coming disqualified or 'iby reason of occurrences me!ltioned �..Y.:e.nis of any of tlie jn sub-clause on being elected, 2 of 1387 Town Councils Bili 1 l\!AnCli 1929 -Seconcl Reacling.

88S clause 3. :The other point is the power to dissolve ently makes of its duties.

ing of the Bill.

a Council where it persist­ clefault I move the second read­ in the performance Mr. AUSTIN secomled.
it thought that it shou.J.cl sup­ the of the learnetl Attontey Ge1ieral fotmd of Govern­ other laymen, of the That was 1·efcrrcd to the That section has noth­ as a Coun­ a Counc:illor onial Auditor-like fault with a particular section Ordinance.

Town Council.

ing to do ,Yitlt cillor but has to do with the ordinary ratepayer.

Now insteatl mc11t-if port the Colonial Auditor-getting opinion first of all as to whether the Council or tl1c Colonial 1·ig-M, it Awlitor �n1s has come forward with this Bill.
If the Council ;thought shonlcl be i11scl't'el1, r-:011g-l1t to AU<litor's l1ave l1ad 110 rausr for complaint, the Connril thl'eatc11ed is contrary 'yon.

1V]1:it iR rlea1· Bill is t.liat aly the Colonial 11ntoucl1el1, tl1c section but aml "·as l1e1Jl tlla t if you do not flo what to tlie law we will deal with from the present complail1ed of still remains his Yiew of clo, r-:o as to make the Colonial opinion of Yah1e, one would that a clause as it is at prese1rt, and t-hcrefo1•e ir-: 11ot c01·rect.
was right and Government up to l'it1icnle it necessary the section Anclitol' Mr. ELEAZAR: Your Excellency, I sul.Jmit Ordinances govcr11ing i11 order that the OnUn­ from Gorernme11t that :rny amend­ the the:se am going to move that this Bill be re­ ferred to the Corporations concerned with a 1·equcst these Corporations ments which they think necessary in respet:::tb-e Corporations Speak- a11cc may work DlOl'C smootltly.
'.rown 111g for the N"cw .Amstenlam r for Council,_ I Ji:-we been a Cou11cillo some time and I am su1·c that my hon­ ourable frieJH1 on my left (i\fr.

Luck­ hoo) will aclmlt Orn.t n g-oo<l many ments cnn .he mn<lc to make the Or,lin­ ance better than it is at prese11t.

goi11g fiml it Ycry ,lifficnlt doing.

After thirteen tkt t there arc amcndme11ts discovered be ma,le.

I tJ1ink it that can usefully '.l.

'own sholllcl J1mcil as well.


If tllat is done there rould be no necessity 1\"ard this Bill, ,vhith, is iniquitous, viciom; not useful.

I am s1n'c if Qoyrrliment were to accept my suggestion Bill which wonlll be rn,cfnl n111l rquit­ able.
We on as we are years we haYe be sent to the (1coi·getown and certainly to my min,1, for- for bringing amcll(l it will get :,, the first i\Iy complaint is that it is unfair to to hold it up t-o ridicule for He is a Coun­ now says), he from acting as a ancl furtl�er Coun('illor?

If ·a Councillor How will 1hat apply, is in arrears Auditor the Council obeying the law as it stands and to make that an excuse for dissolving to try to make that f'ouncil law now.

Let us sec how that wouhl ""·Ol'k.


for taxes, says the Colonial 'iaml as tJw Govcn11ne11t i-;Jrnll be di:squalifie<l Cou11cillor.

of nll, to the cillor l>y 1·eason amount of rent.

He can pay;; a ccrlain owe his rent.

for six years, if his land­ lorcl permits him, and he is sti]l, .C01mcillor llim at all.

�hcrefore, is to be there nt all, hr must he there on the ,;arne c·01Hl ition.

Take a not lier case: a Councillor ii-: tliat lie occupies Yalne of which is $20 a month.
That houi:;e might be the property ployer and it qualifies 1Council.

ancl you cmrnot deal with whose qualification a house the rental o-r the fact that he This man pa.�s no rent at all �him to be on the of his em­ a if a Councillor as of tl1is clause here.

Under the to ,lissolve a Councillor is given.


in regard to 1mying Take the case of :New Amstenlam- the excuse for the quarrel with the regai-ds that Council, the thi-eat f'mmcil, and the reason fo1· the intro­ duction law at present, the same privilege his rates as the ordinary he is disqualified payer from voting at tlie election Councillor, is in arrears for a certain therefore voter is qualified that he is subjected consequences tain layman-to be camlitl to all the rules and of the Ordinance.
A cer­ the Col- of a so that he �mrnot rnte if lie taxpayer, but like the ordinary tax­ he cannot be elected pel'iocl a::; 011ly a to be elected.

Beyond and SS9 'l'ozcn Gomicils BUl 1 1\{ARCH 1929 ....:seco1ict Reading.

890 or nominated.

All should be on the same platform whether elected make a law that differentiates the one ancl the other no one can say_ that is good law, and it must be con• legislation.
tentiou::; If you between Your Excellency, my contention with the is now complained llad method in his madness.

than the yet he is in a better position does noij owner of the property who pay his taxes for four months.
It shows then that the person :who inserted clause which against Unless you a1·e going to have Council­ ::.ors on different qualifications on the one which does not put a penalty not apply to the other, and therefore Your Excellency Government is putting all sayh1g that no one <:an be a Council101· unless he is a taxpayer perty of a certain make a Councillor not paying taxes without doing violence to some one.
will see thaiJ 1mless going right back and on a level by and owns pro­ value, you _<:annot vacate his seat for Councillors you can­ of seat of a 01· no one of rates can be clone in the maxim: Council-tha _for example, 1n·operty.

If that a Councillor In New 1\J.usterdam But .he holds his seat on owne1·• the Chairman t under the Local a member's in so far as to the non-payment Something because I happen �o the reason �hy I_ kno,v this Bill at the moment is it relates to the Coun.�il.
in that 1·espect, lrnow, sir,-ancl it so well is bemuse I was, fortunately 01· unfortunately, Yillage Ordinance Government becomes ntcant if he is in arrears 1·ates.

,;hip of a particular were so on the Town Council would complain.

Georgetown, is a man of some means-He lives in the town and he believes " 'l'he eye of the master fattens the Gcas1:."

He has a _<:ouple dollars 1·cntal.

gets his qualification say �n Main _Stl'eet.


one p1·operty, to the .Bill, if that gentleman cording in anears for three months in respect of taxes for any one of those four pro­ pe1·tics, but John he is disqualified, Jones, ·who happens to hire one of his and )is 1myi11g him $20 !

)Cr p1·operties , is safe mouth 1·eni, though he docs not pay auy rent at all.
'rbe owner .of the property paid half of the year's taxes, but as he­ i,s ::;till in arrears complaint it is sought to remedy this matter is You l)enalise vicious.

property who gives a friend his house to live in at $�0 per t]1c ow11er cannot retain his seat on of the Council because "i:axes for three months.

of thousand for and _invests it in properties He ow11s three f)r four, but he by Ac• is and is a Councillor he fa in arrears is that the methocl he loses his seat.
:M:y mi the Council month rental but tlie owner of a may have by which Mr. WEBBER: To a point of order, I desire to know, sir, whether we are the Bill before the House discussing of an Ordin,• or one of the provisions ance that is no� before us to-day.

Councillors, Council­ No­ and and just to be a member _of a or four members on means "a 1Jerson them.

You say the law only refer to electetl But that is not all.
In this Bill a who has is not if it is I cannot under::;tancl Councillor )iJeen duly elected Council."

I want to know how in the name of all that is reasonable you _<:an haYe ,th1·ee the Ooundl who are nominated.

body elected :shoul<l.

yet you have these nominated lors.

Your Exi:cllency,.

the thing, souncl.

law or malice.


It can be argued that these men are all public oilicers are not likely to enter into therefore with the Council <:ontract:s therefore company, �hem in this Bill at all, but, to include you have two sir, at New Amsterdam, to :t-he Council members nominated :w1.tat is the are independent position leged to enter into a contract Council to any extent.

the interpretation Councllor still sit on the Council?

lency, those are tllings overlooked, a party to making fish.
of one and flesh in t:his fashion.

of another that members of the Council ,te l)ermitted �vith to enter into contracts the Counc_il.

No.

'rlody would say tha!, Your Excel­ that _cannot I quite agree should not then?

Are they then privi­ does not refer to them, and the law gives of a parties.

with the be be �vho they like because for a 1wivate it is n�t necessary and Government cannot 801 'l'uu:n Connoii� Bill l ltIARClI i!J2!J -Second Rcad'inr;.

8!12 Th-e PRESIDENT: I was trying to what the hon.


member was discoYer driving the qualifications of Councillo rs.

at.

I think we are discussing Mr. ELEAZAR: What I am en­ hardship for their de\\":-; tlea vouri11g to show is that the Bill is in such a state that it would work a tremendous on members of the Council and therefore should not be made into la,v but referred to the 1·e:spective hollies on the ameudments whi.d1 shoul,1 be ma1le in the Orclim1111·c,;.
Thr11 the Eill can be brought back to the Council and made law.

I am sorry that the gentleman who has missed his vocatfon been able to follow me.

Your Excel­ lency will find in the Onlimmce I chapter and verse for every point made.

I say these little only an excuse for a quarrel.

If it is true that a Councillor was in arrear of his taxes· and the law says he should not be, all that is necessar attention that it.

is not being carried Bill the sting is in the tail as usual.
The Bill goes on to say : to the law and poi11t out out.

In this y is to call things were has not of 1!

)16 Of the IE any Council, in the judgment to in UovE'.rnor-i'll-Councll, porform, or persistently e O·f its duties, the performanc or abuses its p-owers, it shall be law[ul for by order to dis­ the Governor-in-Council solve the Councl!.
is not competent makes default or ex-ceeds public of popular without popular confi­ by which one man would do They are men without pub­ or any­ House substi­ honest men no doubt, men but men who When this Bill r or to take .charge of our to a principle as well as the other man.

It is a right on the part of the people to get that man, ancl that man only, whom they by their voice actually declare that they know they love, they esteem and they trust.
How can Government body make a nominatecl tute for such a person?

talks about having a Commissione Commis�ioners affairs we fear that it is an attempt foist upon the community men-good men perhaps, full of all the virtues, lack the qualification opinion.

lic opinion, dence, without even mutual trust, aml I say that in any community where you place the power of government in such hands you bring upon that community evils.

�hat is what we fear, sir.


If it is the intention a greater ties, Government "Let us have a clause in the Bill giv­ ing Government power to dissolve them on the happening of so aml so," but not if the Council is incompetent.

is to be tl1e judge?

And when that!

happens then within so many months or so many weeks Government will call a general election.

that Government away from these bodies the powers which they now have; but Government ·suggests Municipalities a super-man ernment's mui:;t 1my him.
I ;must be called upon to pay a gentleman my affairs because somebody else thinks he is more capable than my­ self !

of Go,;errunent hold upon these llfunicipali­ them by and supersede ancl keep him there at Gov­ that!

it should fake over these might have suggested for administering and the tax1Jayers That would show the worst of all is not anxious pleasure to have to take Who I do not kno," what Government dissent).

indicated this Bill is an attempt all if not to abolish, tive institutions.
(The I am glad means by "not competent" or how Gov­ ernment is going to find out that a Council is incompetent.

It seems to me, sir-and you will pardon me if I am wrong-lllat to emasculate, our representa 'President for that sign, sir, but that is how it looks to the ordinary The right of election of form to be carried by some other method or l'Ule for a technical by which Government Jones or any other "fictitiou as the lawyers �he person specially wonlll say, in place of chosen.

It is not observer.
It is not observer.

is not merely a matter can have John s person," it is not a principle reason; out.

or substituted I thi11k Your Excellency will agree for this sug­ down of the New Amster­ that the reason assignecl gested closing dam Town Council: To try to .

'find a fault when there was no fault, and then attempt case against the _game and is not cri'cket or any to make out a us 1on that, is 11ot playing is 11ot jtrntified.

S!l3 '.L'uwn Conncil1; BUl i 1\i.\nCiJ.

1!.)2!}

-Ficc·u1Hl Bcaclfog.

S9!


it.
I which the Senior of violence of suspicio the suggestion to clo my best to a11tl otl.Jcr degrees e their duties in our Onlina11cc woul1l differ from "·l1at even when I am not satis­ which we ,vli.at to keep pitch to I am tell you, :c;ir, that that n 1iermeatcs a very must lie uoiliJtg because he feels that I am nm011g that this is a further possibly to abol­ and will not believe, government in these is a very we arc about is that nobody has to find out from u-s when this is sought to be pnshed do1v11 I ask Government up to concert other game.
.M:y hon.

friend, l\Iembcr for Berhice, over with imliguation, like myself.

I am asking Government to take seriously I have made becaus� I know, and it cannot be lleniccl, that there are many sections feel should be amc!l(led.

surprised taken the trouble how they can be amemlecl iniquity our throats.

these 1.Jodies discharg ef1iciently.

not against that.

I have promised tltis Council, fied with anything, help it along.

That is what I am here for.


I do not think that any of the devices which are suggested Bill can ever take the place of popular n'presentaHon.

is the voice of Goel.

While the people have their J)etty cillors, thing extraordinary rant these uoclfos being scrapped.

'l'his community has over and over again said-and it is becoming ad nausem,--that in the Administration, get, sir, that you are arbni11istcri.

ng to­ day and to-monow a T'haroal1 mi.�J1t come who does not lmo"· Joseph.

W11at is to happen then?


Like Joseph of old is he to be 60ld into slavery?

That is wl1y we fear all the more 'when we see these wedges coming in.

vVe be­ come alarmed,.

to leave this matter in your hands but other fPharoahs will come.

But Phar­ o:i h or no Plinroah let u:c; 11:nc jus­ tice and equity.

and injustice to per­ petrate.· -I am not sayi11g them-suspect effort to emasculate, isl1, every representath-e institution in the community to-day.
I do not be­ lieve it and I was glad when you gaye the gesture of disavowal when the l[lst speaker was on his legs.

It is the duty of those of us who move about ancl come in contact with people of rnrious viewi:;-conservativc, 1·adical, mmlcralu or motlemtion-to feeling large sc�tion of the community.
For my o,YJ1 part I do not believe cannot believe, that His J\Iajcsty's l):trts funclainental pri11ciple the f'ol1.1ni1•s, trustccsl1ip inl1abi.tants of tl1oso Representative under Local Government, 'for the purpose of trainii1g hal>itants 1.Jecome competent greater govcrmne11t aml I cannot believe t.ha1J1 I simply have a reversal priuf'iple a country which r-;tamls 11ot one whit lichind any portion of the Em1)irc for loyn lty :rnd rlcvot.ion the King.

Tl1ercfo lieve tliat thiR Bill of Government.


l1ccausc tlJe law is in n state that requires some amen,lrne11t, basis I am p:oing; if it is 11ot possible provisions law affecting tioned in thi!l Bill.
with Coun­ there is no impropriety or any­ that would war­ in 1hat gonm1mcnt for aml on behalf of the so that they may eventually to take over the to ask Government t.o vermit these respective im;titut.ion;;, as this Bill is t1·ying a11tl the iron fist imposecl The voice of the people "\Ve arc inclined of their country, and not inequity of government, lo be im;ertc,l it has implicit all(l i-;tarti11g in tl1e gcnc1·nl rc I am .bound to be­ to His l\:iajesty particular differences of the entire confidence but do not for­ we will en<'l1 in this on that body men­ those in­ is a on H you!· have a separate Ordinance Mr. CRANE: Sir, this Bill is one which if it l1acl come up at a ditl'cr­ c1tt time in the history of our Colony migl1t not Iiave been regardecl f:t1spic-ion to­ clny.
,ve l1ave jusL lrnrl a d1,111p;c of' our Constitution and a good many people willt wldc-h it is 1·cgarde<l deali11g i·hat may not really be a threat of •-violence may lie madn to appear so, whereas when the Ordinances horl ics come up for revision v h:ions would be inclmled trushc a mam1cr as �)os;;ible.

these pro­ in as uno·b­ It is well affecti"ng these on the part of Government .�ith these two institutions, with the sir, Colonies.
pa1·ticul,uly arc intended is an emanation it considers that �5 io1i:li, VD'tinclis .Bili i l\Lrncn i!

:l2fJ -Scrnurl Hnuling.

S!

)ll which make H umle:;irable lufly aml for the that these l:::,enice, itself, in otl1cr of that fact, of Uouucil­ rill of a few :,ltuttlcl tliau 1.o impose i.n businci;;; GoYennucnl 1Heve11tcd Gornrmnc11 lH'ouity, .�ouulries priuci})le.
tu Uorcrrnucnt by eYcry Council 1.o adopt certain and in other umler• H Uo1·cn1rncnt bcrn use Uu1·cr1J· anu., if I happen to b� may be interested are h)· the Colonial may lie, Uurei·m11c11t comes 11p it time to 11c­ from ha\"iug nny to di:;(JUaliti­ iu that Bill.

of makiug it:, aclministi-::.1.tion "·ill soon find its and that Bill pro• and getting of the elected to 011 the Coun­ to ;.!.

'own its Ordina11cc.


rule of Gun•u1meJ1t t olli.ccrs sboultl therefore on the Cu1111cil:; k11owH that the Georgetown Council is now revising It has noti1iP.1l �1lso that it propo:,cs measu1·es pm·_pose more efficient di:,adrnntage:, That Bill, 1 uelieve, way to GoYernment, vides for the qualilication lun,.
I submit that that would I.le the more appropriate place to deal with amendments, here, it will have my :,uppo1·t very provision s i-elati11g cation should be im;crted ·when that OnliuaJH:c would 1Je a more reasonable iuserc those proYisiom; them at this i-;tagc.

llowc,·ei: however · much above the, onlimt1·y nowd Go1·errn1tcnt mnst from the height of their positio11 an<L power Jin re sympathy ,l"ith the views of the people OYer whom they rule.
As a matter of fact it is the cs· seJJCe Qf SllCl'lc'SS of Uul'CJ.:lllllellt.

'1ong as Go,·c�·JJmcnt the views of the 1ieople would not l'e­ sult iu disorgaJLisation to Govcnu11e11t, fully submit, ('.Onciliation involved.

ciplc i:; im·ohed Bill at once-I am going to support every dause in this llill, this is uot the time and this is not the place.

Your Excelleucy has power to order the Coun�ils OrclinaiH:es h,1::; taken the view lf'd pos1.s un the JJOt.
l>e rcsl'l·ictecl to put those out­ lJ,v a11y regu­ tere:;t in ill a with 111e l',m11eil.

A certain n of tl1e 11 ig·ltest re,;- lol' and Ly the 1·et·c11tly fou11(l he was HOt Ile wa,; a maki11g represe11laliu11:,; that both type::; uI l'ou11dllun; JI it we1·e l.,e put _on the same footing.
1he im·ariablc ·1ilace cil then it might lJc u1111crnssa1·y !make that p1·0Yisio11, 1J.11ent oJlicen; gulat.ions interest 1Ml,iugs while they are in the jl'ublic Dttl Goverm11cnt tlrnt these 11omiw1 Connc:ils ollkials, ou!

:siclc1·,; sider,; al'C 11ot pret'lwlcd la tiorn, from ha Ying-all i.11 bu,;i11e;;s which co11ti-act ge11tlcrna 11cctcll Cuu11l'il in clou!Jt eoJ1trareJ1i11g: nomi11atc<l nml by w:iy of hi,; b11si11e,;,; he came iu ('OJdli<·t with the Jmrlil'ular sel'tiou of tho Onlinancc.
ad­ mitted, u11e11t; 11ot want ni1y faYuur:--lrnt wanted to ,i;taml jon the same pla11c a:; elected .Com1t.:illors.

I tlti11k should inc:hulc 11otl1 101::;.

lea.ring with the Couul'il I um thoroughly cause those of us who ha.-c ruade a study of l\Iu11icipal affairs ill small co1mnunitic,; occur that a 1>c1·son 1Jcs1.

service happens to be a Uoumillol'.

fore ought to 1,e open to the GorerJ1u1·­ iH-Co1u1cil a contract the intcrc1-,t In�-1lo"·n contract all(l cxccut.ccl.
A recent case i11 :ri-inidall dcprhed the J,egislativc Counc-il of 011e of its best members and 1the provision mnde by the hon.

Junior l\Iem.bc1· for New Arnstenlam in 1·cspect of the ap­ plication of this.

Bill.

I caunot con­ c-eiYe that the mere fact that a member of the Council is appoiuted liy Govern­ ment removes ordilrnry human nature from him.

If it is imprOJ)er and un­ desirable tract, then it is impropet· able whether he is elcc:1e1l ed.
The Council in Georgetown-if it has not reached Government to i-an<'ti011 by a <'0111;<"i of the pnl>lit-, tl1e ('Onclitions u11clcr might Le at('Cptetl �vp.en µ_o great principle I :;ubllllt.
_that no great 1)l'i11- to put thl'ough this Uo.-er11rncJ1t, I rc1,pcct­ of is and I think 1.he other Uoreru­ that 1.hey ditl open to GoYernmcu i11 fa mm· of thn t be­ 1.hat the Bill type:; of Conu<:il- know that iv sometimes tht> enfr1•ing llor H it is in support the reprcse11tutions aml undesir­ or nominat­ As regard:; the de:;il-alJil L' respect It thcl'e­ tlia t a member should con· ot· i11co11re11ie11cc the O1·di11a11t·e.
JLul ,in ullicial, the q11estio11 'l'ha t gc11Ucnrnn as to wl1clhc1· Cou11eillur, a ml pci-lrn1Js arc satisfied ma kc a gesture in 1.lta t p,1 l'l icula to scull up their for 1·evision.

"'ho tan gi,·e the admitted, I heartily mcmue1·s l:::,o that but I think i'iltould him;;clf yet-is thc1·e i11to which a ity uf was of c-ontracti11g t, S!l7 :l'om1 <Jomicils Bill 1.l\1.\RCH 192U -Seco11£l RcruUng.

SOS to limit (liRqualiii.cation.


that they arc to sentence for the supply of denlh, penal :;crvi­ with harcl !about·.

of C0lllJ11Cl'Cial That I am speak­ alterecl is the modern tendency.

i11g principally COll· tracts such as contracts of stone and other things.

Clause !l '(cl) rcmjnds Councillors linblc tu.dc or impriso11rnc11t '\Ve poor_ mortals do not need any rc­ mirn1er of tlw.t: because ·we live in every tfay.
1'be Conncil was jeopardy constituted Queen Yirtoria ascended the tl1ro11c, aml that is why we prize onr co11st.itu­ tion-ancl from that time we haYc not been rcminclecl til to-day.

plead witlt Govcl'l1ment to consider of a deailt sentence ·with such foreboding-;; year that in 1S37-tlte very this matter.

to give us time un­ we arc In 191-!

this that it was suffi.­ On the point of non-papncmt of rates One of thought.
are two schools lJy the Legi,:latm·e, was of 1·ates allCl it to impose a penalty of interest But tltere is 011e Yery im­ point, which may be called know that rat.ep:iyers of the fact that a Councillor tllcre school woultl say that a Councillor ought to show an example to ratepay­ ers by the early payment of his rates, but I clo·u·ot apprised has or has not paid his ratrs.

That of on that point is easily disposed g1·onnd.

pni·t:rnt tl1c principle of business.


question of non-payment consjderecl wns tl1en considered cic11t at a given rate, which is now G })Cl' cent.

on unpaid rates.

In my experi­ ence of its practical poration tl1n t tlic Cl0Yei-nor-il1-Cou11cil may per­ mit the Council to lJorrow to }lay cur­ but the Council rent expenditure, not exercise a wilcl rovi11g but borrows only to meet its present needs.

These 11ce<lR same extent a:=; outstanding faxes.

The Council pays G per cent.


on any over­ draft at the Bank hut the outstanding taxes ::ire very much greater rr(Juirements of the Council, result is that while the ratepayer pays 6 per cent.

on oYerduc taxes a F-1:r.arly tl1c ('oun<'il pay:=; 01ily (i pe1· cent.

on a floatil1g does commission There is a provisiun at the ell(], 9{ tlrn.n the and the arc 11eYer to t·he working the Cor­ ovcrdr�ftJ benefits.
!h� interest, means of borrow­ 011 o,·cl'rluc to the• good, which in ancl tlte Council of paying interest regard the on overdue wl10 hap.

is certa i11lv en• of the pl'm:ision year and finds itself with a certain sum of interest other words is to say that the Council recci res more than it actually pays.

Thu t is an orrlinary trans­ collllllercial a c:tion, and tl1c rn tcpayers prh·ilcge taxes as an indirect ing-the mo11ey from the Bank.
The rate­ pn:re1·s sny we lion-ow intlhectly hom the Hank, payil1g G per <P11t.. g-aim; in the end.

'l'he ratepayer pens to be n f'on nl'il101· to fake :1(h-a11t:ig-c (tillecl to pcrrnittil1g of the stntn!-c pny intci-cst that a Councilloi- the :JJst Dcrcmhel', r:rn hp c:illed 'l'o my miml n Counr.illor n!low 11 i,: tnxc;; to be in arrear beyond the :Jht.

December-That has been sug­ gested hy the 11011.


.lnnior Member for as the reason for the X cw Amsterdam tl1rcatcned dissolution f:tenlnm 'L'own Couucil, gcstccl that Georgetown i.l1c tl1rcnt io N'ew Amsterclnm �m nfrairl· A lthong-h hrougl1 we Jrnyc l1arl rontrove1·:=;ies over the Scl1emc we :=;till wif'lh tliat Rewer·agc woulrl work ont for the bene­ the ;;rl1C'mc fit of the ('OJ11lll11llity.

ratepayers rates.
ratepayers rates.

ProYirled rloci-; not owe lieyond I see nothi11� and he sug­ Jias brought but I an n lmse of liis position.

t, it: to Ueorisetow11.

that :Kew Anrnterclnm of tl1e New Am­ should not which!

their the rig-Jtt to the I see 110 rcn Ron for objecting it is proviclerl of Govermncnt an oppor­ them of what I call to admin i:=;te1· wholly subscribe.
of Government power of clissolntion, the bona fide intention to gfre the -1\funicipalities tunity of making g·oocl and not taking power to deprive a l.,lcssi11g, own affairs, the money for which they U it• is them�elvcs to exer­ the intc11tion cise tl1is power in the ordi.liary way I see nothiug to object to.

I say most l'espectfui be tl1e Govemor who would without just cause exercise solution like this.

It is a very serious matter.


IloweYer strong or popular tl1e Govrrnor to give ren,sons for �aking PQ}\'Cl'S �t �bis ld ° ly that I woul<l 11ot like to rnay be lie WO):lld have a power of dis· flrasHc ncl, and I do n.ot be• 8!)!)

Tou:n Cowicils Bill 1 MARCH 1!

)�9 -Second Reculing.

900 1<houlcl pri11ciplc.

should be depend­ in the admini�.trat That is all I have to say on I a.sk that Gov­ It is a fundamental ion of jus­ also to these tion.
"':Vhen the time comes I will ask t.liat the dissolution ent 011 an enquil'y.

})rinciple tice and shonlcl be applic1l bodies.

the gencl'al en1me11l the tlcfel'l'ing holh < ame1ulrne11!s arc proper provisions the 'fown Cotlllcils are exercised frame of mind.

These are my observa• ask GoYernment tions aml I respectfully to them.

io giYe consideration of this Bill aml (lirccting to submit their at once.
IJ'hesc 1n-oyi,-;ions Onlinances if they in a just and rensonabl,e to be i11se1·ted '.nrpornlions ro11si11er two things; in Mr. WIGHT: I am going to express is being The Town met and tl1e nrnjority the opillion tl1:at a mountain made out of a mole-hill.

said that Council tl1cy lrncl 110 objection to the ,vhatever Rill.

l\1y lion .. frieml tl1e Member for West Demera1'.a has elahorated on some of the points w11ich will come out in Committee.

myself to the Bill heb1g defcnecl for six mnnths.


and it wonl<l come with better grace if we emhodiecl Ordinance eration eaid, I l1ave no objection ment, but it is my clnty to express the majority fceeling nt the present moment.

to a postpo1w­ I haYe 110 ol)jection of the Town Council.

in the 11ew these provisions As l which we have m1der comd<l­ vVe and I tiorn,; resources imp1·01·e•• l.i 11g llic tlil\'i­ or not.
,Ye al'e not lJlessed is likely to the power of dissolutio in i\Jnnidpal just as Government has in It is well known lieve that a11y Governor n of a exercise body 'whi<.

:h wa:; tloiug well and gave no l'Cal cansc fol' dis1:1olutlo11.

What the I do not like is the phrasing of powei-: in the judg­ '' If any Council, ment of the Uo1·cn101·-in-Council, is not .

.

. "
.

. "

·with competent the gi-catest deference to that very fl ugust body, unless that· body hull the oppol'tuuily of jm1g-ing aucl :1pprech1 cultic:; u uller w hid1 these Corpoi-a do their work it camwt have a fair oppo1·tuni_ty they a1·e to judge whet.her competent with money to carry out cvc1·y ment for the benefit of citizens.

have limited government the central government-.

that many persons have unfoundet1 objections to these Corporations hope that none of those objections· will of Govemment.
creep into the councils If it is ever thought that these Councils to perform their are not competent duties there should be a Commission enquire i11to the question, and afte1· both Councils of bei.ng ]1r,n]'(l, fOn the judgment ot1 tl1e Gover11C4r-in• Counc-il sit clown ex vartc aml say tha,t either Council is incompetent dir,:solYed, a great il1j11stice.
...-ery much betlP.r clrastic power e11quiry Govemor-in-Council whether a T1aYe 110 objec·tion the Governor heca.nse the old Legislature clissolYe within five years as at present dissolve this Legislature he thinks fit, ancl solve Parliament it comes to the Local Autl10l'ities thern is power to dissolve them, but I clo not know that it has ever been clo11e an enquiry.
amenclmeu will he to lose gamely all(l endeavour Ree tliat reasonable 1n·ovision befo1re anything lun-e had an OJ)portunity then those Councils I cannot hope to cany tl1 is t il1 tl1is body but my duty to the <1issolving hfl(l the right to I think it woul(l be if before this very as the Ki11g can clh;­ ...

When upon the result of ·which the you may be doing that Com1cil lie deemed incompetent, is done in.

that direc• Council is incompetent.


I could declare if lie so desires is exercised and should be at any time at flny time without there is.

i:in is mnde power he can but to may to to Mr. LUCKHOO: I join in asking of goi11g of this mu be posl·· ]1as been no meeting that consideration l)0ncd for some time ns New Amsterdam has not ha.cl an oppo1·tunity ihe Bill.
In fact, it is only tl1rough the Bill a few dn.ys ago we received and tliere of the since that date, 1111d I think it Council would be quite a. fair proposal to ask to girn tlie Town Couu­ Your Excellency ril mi oppo1·tunity the 'Rill and to suggest I clo not know what co.used rnent's ire to bring ab.out tl1e thteatenecl dissolution of our Council.

Hint a few weeks ago we received llltimatum from Government iJ1g-us.

that.
that.

if we dicl not collect time anears of taxes of a certain tl1ey would dissohc om Councillors to go thl'Ongh any amendments.

fill threaten• the Govern• �vithill I only know :JOl 1.

'uu;n Cou11cil1, llilt i i\I.IBCII 1!)2!)

-Sewnci Rc<ulinu.

!JO:.l who is in a l'l'eal' becomes uisquali­ got by the Colonial im­ 'l'hi:; Gornrmnent was 1·aised or voting·.
King"s Counsel is some doubt as to debated the a Councillor of the Coi-poration the view of the Auditor; some time in Pebruai-y point> and several di8agreement y. ,ve met and at 0J1<:c .Municipalit .

..: to pay up their ane:u· lhose meml!ers and we promise(!

to adhere to the terms of that order.

It should satisfy Govemmcnt that we took the earliest oppm-tunity to carry out.

that order.
that order.

Bnt tllere whethel' of tow11 taxes thereby iled from sitti!lg portant point A.uclitor last .i<h i<"c J<,ar an<l the Cmmcil sought leg.i I in George· of an eminent town.

That advice was olJ lainctl a 11d it but supported legal members rnry Yigorously with of them expressed I:low­ ofl tlle legal ·adviser.

the opinion opinion was forwarded c,•cr, that t� Coverrnnent with a 1nomise that we would do all we can to sec tlrn out.

Before <.
Before <.

:umlitions were carried lo f;ec wlwLher giving us .in oppo1-tunity that would be clone or not we rcc:circd a letter Ou·eatcuing <li<l solvcll.

a<.

:quircd information default the onlimtry at:dit takes place in Pcuruary and it ltnd not then b,ecn f:ic:t the information Co1rncillors maintained, tl1at the fact of their being in at'rcar docs not disqu;1lify them from Ritting voting-.

'l'hc :-;ection on whi.ch that opinion not very C'lcnr.

doubt it is rcmowd by clnusc 3 of this amending ma!lc.
In poi11t of ,1:::s con·ect, lmt ni:; they do now.

us tl1.1.t so anrl so ·1.lte Cour1 ti!

woul<l Ile dis­ lJet:ausc lhc11, course of eYents the oflltial tlrn.t by Councillors hut i r ti1cre of the Ordin::mcc Ordinance.

was ,;ought i,; there was any was :-111:v unless ,rc t the i 11 or I do not know how Go1·e1·mucnt Doesn·t i:;lJ.oul<l 011, 1·ani0<l affairs.
tbnt the mere .by lending 111emo1-y, No inYidioui:; that show tbat we do he made in tlrnt of goocl gove1�cnt lJut the mere fact of a Coun­ than a ratepa\)·cr.

.ymcnt of rates by a few Council­ offence to on the part of I thci·efo1•c measure is , (rn 1·;:;clve:s with the prihciplc becaui:;c one happens to be a I :sul!mit overdraIL.

g_oocl busine::;s money?


1 quite ag1·ee should show the <!Kilffi• that Councillors plc, antl it is very desirable in the interest that we ancl i;Jiould pay our debts prom1)tly regularly, cillor not paying his mt.cs prompt· ly ougltt not to put !1 im in a worse position distin<-lion direi::tion 1CotuH:illor.

nou-1n1 lors wa.s 11ot such a grave merit such treatment We have since 18!Jl cnnied Government.

on our l\Iunicipality.


l'1·ior to that elate, you to know, sil-, the it might inLt•rest on by a Sttperinlencl­ town was carried ent.

At that time l:lir Henry Katz Davson, of revered ancl to-uay his maulle lias fallen on his :sun w 110 ]1 as la ken a great tleal of inter· .est in niun.idpal a,-;k !hat lJefol'C taken Lo 1lep1·he inslituti.011 will go into the matter very carefully.
'l'lLcre rn igh L mcnt's intervention the power of with the submis»iou should be giYcn an opportunity bcaru in their dcfe11cc before any· such course is taken.

I am happy to sar that there is 110 faction There are three 11omil1atcd aud they have been elected alty.

l\lr.

Broughton to that office we ha YC a Mayor in tJ1.c pen;un ur hlr.
,v 1·cford, Tbc most hannonious existed between Government seh·cs and when we arn thrc,Lte11ctl dissolution Ruspicious rallicallr be some pronouncement lc11ry il1:it ·,rlll1inist.ratfon our part.· Tl1at would allay a g-rrat dral of nurc�t ihat there is something wrong.

a uutliet· 11ontiJL;tteu.

relations have <UHi our.


with the public bccomef:' yery aud the exercise but I ag1·ce that the Council of l)eing a11y ll1w,tic us of a re1J1·ese11 lative of ihis sol't Government members to the ;)fayor­ has been elected or any incompetc11l'y wrong, :iml I hope there will time aml a.t the pro�.eut there is 110 question mnst be something Jll.l'Jlll.Jer.

dissolution, be g1·ou11cl:s in our Council.


of mat­ 011 l1y Your Excel• that thc1·e for Uorcru­ of is charge­ i11!ctest not hein­ 'l'he no11-paymcnt of rates sl1ould such a grie,·ous a,nd uc collsidcred ous oil'enre to justify under our Ordinance able on rates a month after they become due antl there is a s11rchn1·gc 5 per cent.

on erery pcn;on ,vho remains i11 rlcfault pn st year t-lte tween $5'00 and $600 by way of i11tetest on nrrnars, whereas, Wt' paid to· our after tlrnt date.
Dm·ing the l'eceivecl be­ l\funicipality kmri .. bankers $6 J1y wa;y o.f on the otl•r.i: of disqualiilcatio11.

\J03 'l'u1rn Go1incili; Bill 1 M.rncn UJ2!i -Scconcl· RcacUng.

!JO!

One member expl'essed the hope that is a and reduction propositio but there will be a of interest.

institution wonltl do nothing tu on our b,ankers kind.

l\fonicipal of racial prejuc1icc.

and I regard it a,:; a 1ine tri.bntc from 'f.

'hii­ I. g effect.

us.
I ha Ye l.Jeen a member for a quai-ter stone to higher goYernmcnt will do nothing now due arnl payable to carry on with­ to a,ssist us, n we ask Your Excellency smothc!r a representative of this sort and I join in that hope that you will l.Je no par!.y to any action of t.ha.t Government stepping I hope Your Excellency to cliiscourage of the Corporation of a century and have been elected 110 lesis tllan eight times tv fill tllc Mayoral cha,ir, tu the members of thu t CoLLncil the v.iewpoint Bill has a very far-1·cachi11 of' my ow11 tlcsil'c aissurc Your Excellency and of the desire of the Corporation to co-ope.l'ate with Gnvcnunent.
1.f it is Your Excellency's llesirc that we ;,,houlll pay om· tnxes promptly .am!

at dne elate that will be clone, correspomling ·with the arrears we are in a position out calling ancl as a :business �-011, sir, whether you should not allow that to continue.

i11 miucl iR that it is the property is responsible for -the debt-it does J1ot matter who owns it-and not the i11- dividttul, ancl for taxes we have a prcf­ ercnt claim and there is no chance of losing a }Jenny.
From that point of Yiew I ask you to consider it for us to get as nmch it not desirable interest all(l suggest that you might allow it to conti1111e.
far as dissolution of the Council is concerned power to make laws to govern, hope aml confideully el' will be exercised wisely nntl after full inYcstigat the facts, the Auditor llR in the termi;; Government I do· 110t think that the Municipality, which has carl'iccl business-like manner in tl1e past, merit­ from Government ed such censure and to be ]ield up to public ritlicnle.
1f ·,ve have previously it must have been a ge1rninc mist-alrn, and Mlf-1•rf:T1<>cting officer, m.hlrc:-R Jiai;; c1011r.. aml not simply on a l'eport Tlic point to be l.Joruc offended against men like the hon.
on iti;; affairs ns possible or any otl1er ·whether ion of of but I do the law that in a As it is within Your Excellenc�·'s tnu;t that the pow­ with 1110<1eration, Your Bxcel­ it Gov­ Your Excellcucy It would interest one pem1y, om· only imlebt, ]1cre and there, and pc!l'ltaps Junior Member for New Amstcrclam antl the 11011.

1\fr.

�mith will b:.!

al,le to bear me out as far as the rnutluct of affairn i::; conccruetl.
will find iu every GoYernment a lilt.le conflict is c,·cn so with your Excellency's cn1111cnt.

kiwy to know that we do not vwe Go,·crmnent C<lHrs;; g:rnmtion scheme, so that there is finan­ cial stability I there­ -fore hope ti.tat Youl' Excellency wjll eHc-o,uragc us.

If yon thil1k it is ncrei:<­ sn ry to take power of dissolution fol' the proper discharge willing_ tl1 at the 11ower will 11ot be exercised unless there are })roper grounds for such a course.
of om· duties I am I am sure l.Jci1w on tlie bo1Hls for the amal­ to bow to it because in our conccr11.

Mr. WEBBER: I am uot goiug to pa1·t that the y':;; co11fidc11re has sinned mo1·c ihan but I Town Council, rny,;e]f to the nm.

into t,rn 11arts ancl it try to iiud out if the Kew -�mstcnlam 'l'owu Com1.cil ihe Georgetown to addreSl:i ])l'OJ)O>',C ·The Bill is divided seem::; to me that the rnost offensive is that whieh deal:; "·it It the dissolution of the Council.
I expcctecl to have hea,n1 from the Altomcy General not only nn explauatio11 of what that clause of the Bill means hut the causes of the Bill, arnl I. l'cgrct Conneil l1:1s not been taken into Yon1· a;; to the reasons Excellmil'_ which causetl this Bill to be introclucccl.

I want to make it cle:1r tltat I am a member of the Government.

here in opposition but ai:; part aml parcel of Gover11111cnt, nncl I intcnc1 mud1 aR I can.

If at a�1y time tliP.


occasion Georgetown AJrn,tcnlam J3oarr1-tliat the Colony-or certainly GoYcrnmcnt <lo want to be assurccl quest to dissolve is not a whim of the moment.

based on some principle that h:rn arisen.

If any such principle has arisen I deprecate Town Council, Town Com1ril, tlie Harbo_m· ramp on the taxpayers woulcl be among those to give powe1·, but I that tl1is re­ I am 11ot to Gove1·nmcnt m1y other institution, to n.;;HiRt C:overm11e11t arise for dissolving the 'l.
'ow11 Councils tl1e necessary shoulcl the New of T the as 'flO:i '/'01:·11 Co1ul(·il.� Hill 1 1L\1:r11 102!)

-Second R,·adinrJ.

!JOG this Bill at nominees I am in­ efficiency upon t.hem, aml t.lrny .

:tJ"e kept in these several the confluence for the etTiciency of the bodies.

The you can get, in are taking a keen interest when puhlir opm1on is of introclncing It tend,-to create unrest more than that, of effiricncy.

Rcplac­ institutions or will be no sub­ that you get institutions.
in representatiYe tlle neressity the 1110me11t.

in the community; it temls to destroy electors best and highest sir, from those two bodies is when the ,electors their affairs, focussed on the top-notch i11g them by G0Ye1·nmeut Government stitution from representative a great: believer , and they can lie made 1Uost stitutiollf, useful even when it is necessary to ;strengthen.

ancl other elements.


Therefore I feel that thifl is not the time or the moment, un­ less Government that has not been tli;;closcd to this Council• he provided pr�per place for it is in the Ordin­ ances of the two Corporatlons.

I know from th:i t in respect of one Council, which I have just retired ,,-m1 what p:race I cai1, an o;rclinanre was in pre­ parn.tion for the remodelling: CounciiYs Or<linanoe.
·sterdam Town Council, also c011sidering own, therefore for this indecent too many Ordinances l1ooks of the Colony.

I believe, the rcmodelliJ1g I cannot see the reason haste.

1Ve are having 'nhe Nr!w Am­ is If this power is n�cessary them with nombiated to then the for in reserve, on the statute of that of its has i,ome information ·what tion of re­ Town Coun­ anrl not the who u::;urpe<l is a matter that body, my scat of tlle Town Council.
but I think it there were six member,; Cnnncils it to this Bill and cle­ to or defening months.

I regret to dilfor with to make 110 representations I know tli:i.t technically sider either the recmn;nc,;1lla fening the Bill to the '1'u,n1 for their observations for six the hon.

Junior Member for George· town that the Georgetown cil has no olJjection :;ires Government.. wllat he sairl is accun1te, does not convey the w]wle meaning or the feeling is more importaut, the Georgetown '!
'own Council is a mere fleeting aml the gentleman there does not expect to hold it foreYer- ( Laughter).

This affects tl1e ratepayers Connrillors who foregathere<l ancl decid­ ed ·that they will have 11otl;ing to clo with it.

That was tl1e spirit tlia.t ac­ -t.uatell that rump of the ConnciL I believe of the Council present at the meetinir, from which the hon .. :Member for West Drm­ erara withdrew to withdraw.

serious wl1ole Council and it certainly does not represent er,;.
On part of the Bill, I think, refen-ed.

to the Trnn1 Gouncil poration in the Ordinance now being prepared.

tion of the worrl "Councillor" merely to those who �.re not be confined clerted, -tn <lcrlnrc 11e rlic,.:.

�r <1isRolution 0•;iil be i:,-ivcn the Council t.o he J1carcl in <lcfcnce, anrl also that c1issolution ·woul,l periorl twn or three yearR, at the expiration of whirh time the whole quei:;tion Rl1onlrl 1:<> opr11e<l nlOJ'(" graceful f.hr matter up for a 1itt1e wllile.
lie provision vacant when the cp1cstion comes up opportunity aJHl there ,-houlrl :1 rocmher'::; �-Cllt J hope that.

wJ1c11 the view of the ratepay­ question that.

the C'Ollrf;C "-onl(l hr to hold am1 anothe;: I do not tJ1ink it was a for i11cor­ which is the f"irst ma.y well be be for a specific rfo nova.

I s:ug-gcst The interpreta­ thrcntcnetl of the views of t·he expression the general 1should of one, I do not· agree with the hon.

lv!em­ tlwt.

tlti,; to clissohe Pai·liame11t or this l)Cr for.


,Yest· D<'rnc1·;11·a power is on the same leYel as the po,•.-er House.

This power is 11ot of dissolu­ tion but of abrogation, anu if it.

is to be sought it should he provided for in the Town Uouncil 01:clina1lCe and :,:}10uld be circumscri.bed 'rJicn there should be a .specific of incomi)etencc, "Iw.s had an oppoi-tu:1ity it the Governor-in-Council what action it may lJe advi,;ed.
But to the this clause is more limitless horizon and still more to the cloncls.

I hope that Your Excelleur·y will c:on- and ·when the Council of am;wcring and defined.

may take charge Mr .. GONSALVES: There can be no doubt tliat the Senior llfcmbel' for Ber­ Nee am1 the Junior Member· for Xcw Amster<1am have lived up to their re­ putation iu allowil1g fit of their views with rci.
:ranl Amstenlam, us to liaYc ihe bene­ a11d I think tlley arc justi- to New fJ07 '/'o 1m Councils Bill 1 M.\1\CH U)�\) -Seco1ul Rcncl-ing.

!

)()S Co1111C'illor the• a tti.tncle so ·when we consider i.hey ha re tn ken I am sorry that fierl i:1 doi 11g that the Bill gives power to reduce H1em to the level of a Village who lose,; his :scat if ltc does 110t pay his rates.

I think that view of the matter ex1Jlairn, up here this morning.
1 have to disagree Member fN· O-eorgetow11 t11e ,vish of 1l1e Town Oouncil that this Bill be pa�,;e<l.

I must admit tha.t I wa.f; 1wt rn1c of tlrnsc who attcrnled.

the m,�eting, cillors "·as <lealt to fhis one not.l1i11g from other Corn1- tlwt the other part of t.hc Bill wit11 first and when it came with the hon ..

Junior lrnt I he:ucl wn;: clm1e.

that it• was .<:ate of the H('�istl'ar ·.

a certifi that the :Mayor shall on In }( rodsions porate them in that Ordinance.
t his Bill there are sevel'al with which I do not agree, amon� tliem the provision reeeiving of the ·coul't dt0clarn a seat Y:H:a11t I do not think it ;;bouhl be left to the Mayor to be satisfied hut that the > :we Counril shonM be �atisJiell.

'l'he1·e other proYisi.ons me11t mid unless there a1·c Ye>1·: and uq!

;e:tt reasons :BilT to-day it.

should be defene<l.

Am­ ster:1:im Jwn· cx111·esset1 theil.'


with Gcorg·c-town and in the same way I exp1·ess sympathy gest.ing for Georgetow:1 ri lone hut n lso fo1· 1 he­ Town Couneil of Nm\" Amstel'darn for pa1,,:ing 11:(: Kt•11· ,sympathy with them in theirs.

In 1>11g­ .1mr11d­ 1• g-ood a postponement whirh 11e�cl I llo so not our .

in our pretlirnment Mr. WJGHT: I rise to a point of rmT1.•eticrn.

'J'l1at.

j,; not a far·t.

I "·ns snrprisetl The Council acljournetl for lunch.
Mr. GOf\lSALVES: I was told tl1at Demerara least t,ro i11tcl'­ 1\1y admits will not ac­ against knows what has for 1'/est for consideration were 011ly six memuers pres­ some of the argument:,; Mr. DIAS: Sir, I should begin by ;lie hrrn.

l\Iernber le-fv the meeting.


In a11y case the Junior "Member for Georgetown that rhrl'r ent, ;rnil Yo111· Bxeellency cept that as tLc cu!lsi<forc(l opi"ion of tlle members of the Couhcil It for 110 other reason that tne Bill should be deferred by the Coun­ cil that i:,; a grow1d for doing so.

The hon.

Member for West.

Demer:ua has put.

on a good �lcnl of gloss on what .he has said.


Everyone l1een going on in the Georgetown Town •CoUll<'il for tile last two years aml I nm p;oing to suggest that that is one of the reasons tlui t a Bili of this ki111l lbron[,;ht Ye1y oftr11 ·i11 ,li:-;gnf;t. going 011, and ii' fl1is Bill ii-the result I say that those persons-who ·wPrc H])Ollsible for ·what was going · on ni:c res1wnsihle for thi::; Rill.
In spite of that I am going to be generou,; and a:,;k ll Ulil' J-:x('Cll('ll('�- crntio11 of tliis Bill anrl give the Couucil an opportunity to consider clau;;r;; arnl sng,!

!e�t may be tl1oug:ht Jll'e�p11t.

saill.

a considerecl, the sng-g·cstion be nuHle it 11·onl1l saying that I haw at ests in this Bill, one tliat I am a citi­ zen of Georgetown and the other that I was l:orn in New Amstenlam.

fotere:-;ts at ,the present moment nre th iefly c·c•ntrerl lien·.
to hear which harn beeE advanced the passing of this Bill.

:Members have advanced exist and reasons which I 1lo not tbinJ{ the:v seem to haYe branched away en­ tirely .from the real purpose of the in­ troduction look upon it in this way : that the -Government stands Municipality an<l it lJehow,� ·circumstance::; so kept anrl lookerl giYe a gnor1 af'eount meml1e1· ment of rlrawing · a Cou11c·illu1· rates while it ,1·oultl 1Councillor · :fication to be in arrears of his rent.
'·'rJrn two ca,-es are not analogous any way.

In the one case the Coun­ cillor cipality would re_move of doubt·, whidt does cxi,;t in the minds of people, wme of the amenilment.s wh i<'ll There is at clesfrahle.
as has heen which is l;eing agree with in relation t9 the to its child, Government in those t.o �ee that the child is owes a direct duty to the Muni­ he is sening, and tl1e Bill the atmospl1ere who Jiegle<"t;; to pay hiR permit another wlto sits on a rental quali­ to accuse Govern­ a <listiuction between before the Council, 11cw Onli11anre after that it sl10uld of it:self.
forwar(l. I have sat: there why G-ovCR·nment enrkanJtn·etl are to that if cl1aJ1gcs and I entirely be better t.o incor- n,; a pare11t the e011si<l­ of what has been to dcl.1�· consider should be One hon.

rc­ in of the measure.

I rather !JOfl '.l.

'ou:n Comtcils llilf 1 111.\ncu l!J2l) -Sern11d Reading.

910 owes 110 duty (lirectly to de­ I suu­ and his should w!1ile happens to brought against for t is a matle1· he sitH quietl�, of his rates while ,rhich must be dealt to in the way of paying rent.
between himself But a Councillor such a state of things in the mind of anyone.

In that because a ratepayer he il:l pl"iYilegcd lle n Councillor lay payment of his rates when they are due.

If for no other reason, mit, sir, the Bill is properly in to pi-�vent ocrurring the other case the member who sits on the Council by virtue of rental qualification the Cou11cH 'l'h:1 with privately l:rndlonl.

110t b(• in arrears ma�· be, ancl are as a other rntepayers matter of fact, procee<lecl un­ reeovery tJ1eir '!
'hat such a st•ate of things fetter-eel.

I submit, is not should llc tolerated, or in of tl1e Cmmc·il i11 the best interest of the Councillor best interest I hen n1, sil·, that a legal opinion was imited by the Municipality of :Xew of whether Amsterdnm a Councillor ,-;011 of his being-in arrears of hi!

': i-ntes.
': i-ntes.

member correctly the Council 011 that opinion 1:eing gi,·en, stood also, it was rejected · cil on th_e ground that several to be mem­ of that uocly who happened differed beri:; of the legal profession .

·with it.

Here we Juwe the Council in­ Yiti11g-tl;e opiniou of a, legal adviser nncl on getting di5ap;reeing maini:: in (loubt and I think it h, a: for Govermnent proper tlli11g 't]wt clouht by introducing in t}1p nm.

If I unclerstoocl of to obtain this advice.


Up- I under­ by the Coun­ members of payment the hon.

with it.

The matter re­ it was the decision on tJie question this provision that opinion forfeited his seat by rca­ to settle themselveR himself.

DC'l:iy has been advorated for the con­ I ,10 not see wh;' it i:;hould not of tMs Bill on the gt·ound contemplate c:er­ Orclin­ sideration tl1at the MuniC;ipalities to their pre!

'-:ent tai11 amernlments a11ce.


If this measure is of nn.v im­ portnnre lle proccet1t>cl 11ecrss::iry this Bill in the Orclinanre Couneil cil.
I co not agrc>e that Pnrt II of this Rill could ever form part of the Orrlin- the provi�iom: 01' of the Town when it cnmel!I before thii:; Coun­ with now and if it became incorporate eYi­ palitie;; o!Jtnins to keep puulic oug-ht to be glad to nm not speaking of Part II, I venture and it has to that are appai-ently taking the .nocessary hy members of the Council an,l ma1w o·e­ lrnt "'it it is 011c lo goYern al!
corpora­ any Council, that if it is intended up to star pitch 110 uctte1· conlcl to sug­ tlrnn real.

I has anY for Gowr1�­ arn:c of the res pee ti \"C l\[unic:i because tiom, i11 the Colrmy.

But apart from that, sir, the feai·s cntertaine,1 in 1·espcct g-est, are more imaginary am 110t aware that Govermnent desire--1 meEt-to a -.;smnr.
control ment of the 1lur1iripalitic�, ,,;eems to me from what 1 have gather­ ed that tlte objert of the Bill is touring with that into line onr c1wn Onli11:1nce If that i.n other ('o!onic::-.

wllic:h is '!o tl:r'.

( 'rnuwils see C'r01·ei-nme11t steps in onler to do that for them.

If it is in their inte1·est uotlies be afforded than to assist <leJJC'e thi,,; rne::is­ in tle�patclling Government UJ:e. '\Vhat f:lecms to !Jc al:u·ming hon.
members is the powel' gil-cn umle1· clause 15 (1) to the GoYernor-in-Coun­ ril to ,lissoh-e IJecn suggested !

"any llli,,; clause into effect ing btJ(ly tl1e Council hns to asl"ertain whether rn:ulc default by this clause.
members of this Council that they ha \·e failed ing of the clause, provides judgment of the Governor-in-Cound1," the GoYernor-in-Council makes default may rlis�olYe cE lrns to form a judgment, and surely that the 110 u-ne is asked to lmderstaucl 1.ioYernor-in-Conncil will form ru jndg­ me11t on news1x1per report.

;, not accurate will form a jn1lgment in-Conncil ,lne enquiry into the matter; it could not form an opinion on a11y othei: grourn1i,.
it­ in the first ins,t,'lJlCe self, arnl it will be the result of that being e11quirv given ·to the position Council rn::i_v tn ke llp, that will nlti­ matelr guide the Governor-in-Council il� fo1·ming other, I sulm1it the real mean­ sub-claiuse (1) in the because th.at ''if any Council, will haYe to be b;' the Connril after due consifle1·ation it.

'l'he Governor-in-Coun­ an eHquir­ for in onler as a rule.
The Governor­ in the manner propo»ed that is the meaning arn1 to s11:r�i:•st to appreciate a conclusion be provide<l one wn_v or tl1P.

I venture eiHJuiry that the Town shoul<l 'fh�,t which are aftr1· l ., 911 1'oivn Cowncils Bill 1 M.\RCII 19�() -Second Readi119.

912 to make are fully met l.1y hon.

rnC'muers havP­ tliat nil the poi11ts n1iempte1l clam,e 15 (1).

I w11h11'e the on1y rc>asonrtble, sible Yiew of the clause, 1·ect the fea1·R -;;olutely mistaken.
to i·ay that i:; awl sen­ rnti011al and if I :nu cor- of hon.

members are ah­ Mr. WEBBER: Tl1e suggeslio;1 ma«le hut tliat \Yas not for a Board of Inquiry the Town C'onncil shoulu be c·nlld be­ fore tlie Gon•rnor-in-Couucil charge in,'esiigated.

n 1111 t11e Mr. ELEAZAR: To a point of cor­ Tlie newspapers had it in big rection.

aml sc::i ring l1eadl night ago.

ines a week or fort· Be that: as it may, I want The ATTORNEY GENERAL: i\Iay be that is the result of debate in a ce1·­ tai11 Council.
to point out that in both Ordinances the1·c fol' election wl1ich is· now objecterl Amsterdam Town Council Ordinance.

JnlG, tl1ere i,; thil" provision: is the ti isqualiftcat.ion to.

In thr New No person whc is in arJ·ears taxes more than three m0:!tlls eligible ccl, to serve.

l'.s a Councillnr, at the election of n. Councillor to be elected.

for town shall be or to.

vote .

or having been elect­ Mr. DIAS: I apologi;;c sbonlcl "\Vliether to the hon.
him to say that appoint a Bon.rd of that is so or 11ot my on tl1e co11- making due nnrl -t.lte Conn­ member.

I urnlerstoou Govermnent Inquiry.

point is that the Go1·ei-nor-in-Co1lllc:il could not form a judgment duct of a Council without.

into the positi011, enquiry f'il will he the proper party to acconnt for ar1y charge with a view to ascertain­ ing whet.lier comlur.t bring them under of clause 15 (]).

Ilon.
Ilon.

the proYision members have failed to make any point of a :-:1tbstantial ernmenL to delay the passing of tlrn nm, which in my humble opinion se2ms very clesira blc.

tltey have br.en i:rui!ty of nature to wnrra11t which will Gov­ �ow.

tl1e >'c-w Am,:tcrdam •rmn1 Coun­ .

to for arp:ue w11y under Onlin- of hi--: tn:xeR i.J1 lfl16 I was included H011.

mcml1crs i.th 1·c�1icrt a. man who is a Councillor not I find that the :same in it.
Why that he has not that privilege defer ])ayment to of his to""n ta::s:cs as any other in he al cil was eonstitntecl first n ncc Xo.

S. of lSDl, and on refcrcnc-e that Ordinance section was done I <lo not know and why it wai:: repeated do 110t know, l,ut I talrn it that there must ]rnYc been very good reason for it, aml it has remained to this time as a disqunlificat.ion (']cetion.
sl1011l<l ]rnYc Hie ,:nme pl'ivilegc w pa.y1ne11t rit.izen hr:R. Bnt if lie v.-ants f'ounc-illnr He <-amrnt for f'ix m· 11inc months nml snr lie is fit fay elect.ion.

from cleC'lion llis tn:,,:c;:, why should lie be caw1h1r of ('r>nt:ilrn"ing to Ri.t if he rloeR not pay his tn:x<"s while he iR a Councillor?

Appar­ e11tl)- in Krw Am!-'.tcrllmn t]rnt a nrnn wl10 11as.

not paid his taxeR is ll0t a fit cnmli<latc .

DoeR it not follow tlrnt if be is not fit for elcctio11 lJecaui;:e t.:i.xes hP.
is not n, fit person to remain as a Councillor?

Bnt that i!".

only one> (1isqualificn.tion.

There iR anotl1t>r.

I<'nr exam1)le, tion if he is a, minister -p:irently 1l0!>il·c.

mini1<ters of religion a man cannot be electc<l a man i!'

not.

<'npa.ble of elec­ of religion.

An­ tl1ey 1lo not :tf; in some other l)laces, to have If he is incapacitated bccmrne he lias 1wt pairl in NC'w A:msterdam on foe Conncil.
a Co1mrillor Jrn is fo arrear of hb it i$ thought for elect"ion If if The ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sir, in matter with re>�!·:w,1 to th('m­ like to ma.kc a few ri.>lll:1l'ks I shonl<l dosing the debate fol' the second read­ ing of this Bill.

Some of tbe hon.

mem­ bers from the Ancient Connty of Ber- 1,ice hnve looked upon the Bill as a sort of personal selves or with reganl to New Amster­ dam, and they sa(Y, among othe1· t1ti11r.
:�, that Go,ernmcnt has publisherl to the world that there wai, Rome default the payment of rates hy C'nnncilloes.

seems to me tllat tlle wo1·ld has only heard of it to-rlay, but from two hon.

members, repre;;ents Amstcl'(lam.

cloubt tl1e newspapers, !1ave llig headl"ines would not be tl1e fault of CoYcrnmcnt in tl1at rei::pcct.

one of whom Berbice and th,� Mher �ew 'fhe details I have no will be given to the world thronglt not from Government to tl1('m sm·c>l?
it and if thm1c <1ctnils in 1t !il:; 'l'u1rn Cow11:U1; Bill -SeCO'ILll Rcail-i-ng.

!JU 1 l\fancu rnzn tt to money for J1eglect­ wl1y shouhl Suppm;ing ber who la::;t which is to be de­ llitt1crto of religion, of the G-overnor­ of town in �ew as has l.Jeen pointel, as a public duty, lint tlle ceases to be <1ualifiet1 in uf lltat clause is in ox<l.e1· Let me give an (.

'ouucil of religion?


is apparently duty whicl1 of the lornl corn­ of dissolution of the out l.Jy the lf the Coum:il refus: in its refusal for his seat will become vacaut.
has been made, a:-; is maclc that if a Town if he becomes a l'aJ'111ellt regarded and it all Llepemls upon tile how tllat :judgment wili for it) and the material to sugge;;t that the he is a minister he rnmaiu a. Councillor- minister taxe:,: Anu;tenlam payment of rent is a priva.te obligation a ntl the 'l'ow11 Council is JlOt concerned ,rith it.
But there is no provh;ion iu the Town Council Orclin­ K cw .A.1ustenlarn ance wllich says that a 1ier::;on QJ makes any­ rent may not be elcctecl thing about, rent a qualification.

The general point with regard to disquali­ I veuture to think, is l'Cally fication, a simple one.

In Georgetown Jnovision in most otl1er places, Councillor election It is so in most l\Iunicipal Autho1·ities aucl I veu­ that I am acftuaintecl ture to thillk that tile p1·iuciple sound.
If a certain eLL it follo\\'s lion supen·e11e;; lie loses ltis scat, so that· thci-e iJtg u111·ea::;o11al.Jle e1·rtl JH·o,-ision lali011, tion apparently- 'rhe que::;Lion Council, holl.

Homina teLl rnelll spoke, is a rnatte1· cided in tile judgment: in-Council, circumstaHces be exercisetl It is a mist:1kc putting who owes ·j dissohe the Colw<:ils.

11stan<:e. cd to perform a statutory is for the beuefrt munity, :;ay, to appropdate a Fire Brig,ule.
ed to do it a ml persisted was called to it, that after its attention would in such a case have made Council default of its duty in the performan<:e and demi so after its attention ed to it, n nd the fact would l>e self­ evident.

fitatutory pose a rn.te for certain public purposes, let us say the payment of its financial obligations if the Comicil when its nedit, of the Council woul(l be at stake and there would he difti.culties about the people who lent the money.
Can a· state of tliings 'Woukl that ue a clefault furman!

'.e a question C'ases lmt it all depeu!ls cumstances there would be foi-the Governor-in­ Council to form his judgment.

is from per::;o11 who suil'ers camwt I.Jc cled­ disqualiJic:acion that if that clisqualifica­ 'll'hile he is a meml.Je1· leucy's perlllissiou tion.

I did not suggest that :we broke the law hen there was no law.

My contention ance 10 f lDlG Councillor Toll find · · necessary sec� in the Or inance without touching tion 14.
The A ORNEY GENERAL: TM is noth­ alJout it.

It is a ge11- iu most l\lnnicipal legis­ all, amt the cx<:ep­ is New Amsterdam.

in tl1e wer­ of it:-; dn tics or· not?

It is all There might be on the particular of each case w]rnt material al;;o it was the duty of the Council to im­ I ask Your Excel­ to lllake to levy that rate was called to it the in whkh an enquiry i.s necess�ry, Having regard to the important is that sedion 14 of Ordin­ for money it had borrowed, of that kind continue?
in arrears forfeits pral:tlcally .Mr.· ELEAZAR: does not say that a ntt.ention to put that now an explana­ of degree.

his seat'.'

ppo,;i11� was _call­ refused witll, cir­ con­ i-,11 1 it cannot be wn,; co11cer11ecl nrgi11g · eration l scq1ie11ee,; of a dissolution :i,magined fo1· a moment that anyone ,,.-ho in the rxercise is tha-b the Bill uu­ point I a by clause 15' tl cler co1rni is in line with the woulcl do so without the greatest usual i\I micipal legislation every­ 'rhe cxe1·cis1.'
,vhern e, ·cpt in New Amsterdan1.

l,�, the d:rnse won'Jtl Looketl wl1cre a default venture to.

think that; there will be 110 rlover1101.· real olijcction there is no default there will be caus(\ it.

is really carrybig tlisl:lolutio11.


tention n llo,rerl possessinr; community be elected of tl1e law that only people shall certain qualTfieations and continue has hcen made aml the no lf to ,melt a 1n·ovisio11, be­ out the in­ if it is provecl of the poWCI'>' at on ger.eral principles, istcr tlic affairs of a in C01u1eil.

onl,v a ri:-;e, sir, e authority so deeirles as members.

l3ut shoul<l conferred a.

Council be to a!lrnin that that sir, L of care.


r·onferred both the i-cpresen(a.:tives 915 1'o'tL'n Cowie-Us nm 1 1\IAnctt l!l29 ; -Second RccuU,nr;.

!J1ti of this 11articular feet the principles Bill.

!.!.

'hat is a matt.er, if it is to be dealt with, that should be dealt with scpara tely.

of of including n. It follows to rule, or rather to is not competent of a. community.

there will of the which one hon.


that perhaps one good result to perform its or that inclh-idua l Coun­ them in another Bill Corporntimu; can be so incorpora Council duty, or· that it makes default it abuses its powers?
Nobotly woulcl say in such a case that the Council should continue misrl1le, tl1e destinies If there is 110 sueh default be no reason fo1· the exercise judgment of dissolutio therefore of this provision will be that its exist­ ence may bring abont that standard admi11istration member has hoped for.
With l'egard to the question the provisions of this Bill in other Bill1-, if other Bills are made regulating cils, or inc:ludil1g regulating prov1s10ns until then it i.s ·well tha.t they should be on the statute.

They should haYe the force of law, and a:-; a result no un­ qualified lor and Councillor not to be in !lefault or tl1eil- duties.

I ought to add a word about 11omi11atecl Councillors.
As the law now starnls witl1 reg:nd to nominat­ ed Councillors their appoi11tment discretion as the case may be, a]l(l they are also :removable 1n·eseut Town Coundl Or<lin:u1ee made for qualilirntions tions with 1·espect bers.

This Bill iH dcali11� the case of eled.c<l llmninatecl s will be very careful in the lJerfonuanc to llomh1:ite<l entirely with all(l not New Amstei·<lam 11or Georgetow person will remain a Council­ by him, and neither ge11ernll)·, ted but of both 'rown Councils, Oon 11cillor�.
rests entirely Con ntillors these in the in the rncm­ e n is provision ur disqualifica­ The PRESIDENT: Hou.

members, 0ll lrnYe painted to be.

'l'heii- Oil this ot<·aHion of purest "·hite.


I con­ of what is apparently they are as they ar9 rcs­ I don't w:mt wl1at they app�' 1·c11 tly l'epresentecl reprc::;entatirns Amsterdam for the that exists be­ of we have had a most in1ercsting debate on tl1e subject the pot and the lrnttle, but 11ot as l>l:1tk generally peetiYe them in colours gratulate thh; Counc-il of il1e Xew and Georgetown Town Councils obvious frie1tdly feeling t.ween the two and for the excelle11ce theil-1·e:-;pective Councils.
them to bclic,·e, <lo at the lH'e:-;cnt is intencletl ,It this Bill is a th1·eat that Government threat.

givi11g I believe, w1mlry like England possess is not a thrust at anyone, ueither at the pot Hor the kettle in this case.

It is a reasonable that Town Councils as tliey ought to do.

It is 110t, most emphatii:ally emasculation-I term used-of representative tions.

then any Dill woulcl be a it is merely that.


power which, not, a step t.owH nls tl.ie think that was the taken to see behave themselves It is not a threat; Government in any way to be a threat.

even a thoroughly introduces democratic precaution that tlli,; nm institu­ tilne, there.

It of tl1e Governor-in-Council, Mr. WEBBER: I rise to a point of Nominate1l membe1·s can­ correction.

not be 1·e111ove1l Council lmt can only be repln<·ed after i-esignation.
by the Govenrnr-in­ The ATTORNEY GENERAL: 'l'l.Jat t.lie Oovernor-in­ may or rnay not he, but the fa<'t is ihat they a t·c dw:,;en uy Council arnl 11ot 11:v the clertorate, their position llierefo1·e Disqualific,ations 11ot attach a differe11t eel to them: that i� entirely que:-;tion, aml it does not af- of elected is <li1fere11t.

members are a]l(l The hon.

Junior Member for Berbice of all heartily with evel'y is strongly clescript:ion aml in favour of of Municipal Councils local self-governing bodies.
I word he said.

made a most eloquent the advantages and otl1er ng'l'ee They nre mo:-;t. useful i11stitutions, Gorcr11me11t them.

'fhrre al'e, llowe,·er, oc:c:asions which one ha::; to draw bac-k in to 11:et g·ood run at tJ1e jump.

I hope the oc·1·a sion will neYer come that either Town Conncil will have to <1o tlial; hnl i.f the)· l1a1·e lo !lo it this Bill, wJ1-ieh ii, ge11eral all 'I'own Councils, cxi:-;t.enc:e being· fake their step back,Yanl.
arnl tho:;e Iha I will rnme into will mm ble them to l_1' applicable io hot h thoi;;e 110w i11 on order in <lue rourse, a11otl1er It is a very !l17 Ton-11 Councils Bill 1 M..\RCII 1!)2!)

-Second Jl,eacling.

!llS for local self-govern­ interred more to say about it policy of this Govern­ clenr nnd definite ment to encourage ment.

I dicl not deal with that aspect of Government policy in my Annual Message this year.
I thought I would leave it until the change in the Consti­ tution had been decently tl1e period of a year at least.

I shall have something in my 1iext Annual Message, hope that tl1e hon.
mmnbe1·s Council I hold, which briefly are that GoYern­ possible ment i,hould do eve1·ything of Local encoui-age the formation Autho1·ities, and this is a very importa11t neglect certain not alluding particulai.· must possess couutry-Govermnent power to sec that people are properly governed to observe which has led to a amount 'Of i11rnnrnnience-I am to the 'l'own Councils in but 1o inconvenience in this that will agree with the views which but at the same time­ when I of this point, by those Local Authorities.
to After all it is on behalf of the peo­ its Local Authorities for the whether they ple of this country that Government delegates to powets of .

;elf-government, · and there­ fore GoYernment cannot absolYe itself of resporn,ibility a ltogethet people of the country, are Yillagen; or George­ munity of New Amsterdam town.

I hope I have made it clear is in favour of local that Government self-government, and I hope to prove of Government's the earnest in the course of the 11ext.

two or three years.
two or three years.

(Hear, hear).

or members; of the com­ intention to the method to be em­ it is worth while Of course, With rcgal'(l ployed r· hardly tliink no io labour tl,e subject.

rash or hasty action will be taken by To begin with, the Gover1101·-in-Council.

clo so.

I he will not be allowed to arnl somewhat was rather interested, picture by the rather fanciful tickled, one hon.
meml,er drew of the ,,·hich Governor-in-Council, him as a pictuting with the Council sit­ kind of auioerat, ting arounrl I can only tell the hon.

member that so far.

that has not been my experience the most '\'.aluable and I Iinrn received ni1y snyinir nothing.

Well, to if I was Council.

'l'he report of by dissolv­ As to method, my Executive I shall ap1>oint else by giving them a warn­ if I feel 1hat a Town Council all ministra­ acting on the advice of Council, (Hear, hca1·).
having been laid ,before the Com1til and duly considered, camlill alhire from all tile members of my Executive there will be some method of courHe, but what form that method of il1quiry; will take depends upon the circum­ stances of the case.

But, generally speakiJ1g, was guil t.y of incompetent tion, I shall chaw their attention the fact after cornmlting I shall give them time t.o Council.

or to re­ take action on my remnl'J,s fute them in some form or another.

( Hear, hear).
( Hear, hear).

Afterwards, not satisfied, my Executive an inquiry.

that inquiry Executive one would then act, eitl1er ing the Town Council ancl appointing special Commissioners-which Heaven forbid-or illg that they have got to clean up their mess and cany on better in futul'e.

the lines which That would be, i-onghly, I should take.

I think on the whole th.is Bill will he goo<l for the because they people of the rountl'y, like elections.
I 11 ave noticed that in my short sitting so sure, howcve1·, who paiutecl about the loYe which the elector:-; bear Com1cillon; after a toward,-.

that is dne to few; months.

Possibly to wamler al'onncl my ha.Ying quarters views direct not.

But, cYen iJ' that is so, if we pass tl1is Bill it is np to the people then toi see that t.hey elect Counci.llors really going to repretient truly in the Town Council.

Those who rlo so no Bill of this Councillors sort is going to i11jure the people.
This Bill is going to in­ jure people wlto flo not know how to mHl who might use behave therni-!elYes for their own priYatc 'l'own Councils ends.

I nm sure that the people of lhcse towns desire that the Tow11 Coun­ mainl"aiu cils sl1011ld I do 110!

: -feel a bsolulcly lprese11t Town Councils-I hel'C.

I am not quite as the hou.

membe1· it in glowing la.uguage, at the momc11t as to whether the }V0uld not mention their dignity.
Ancl certain who are them well and from the 1>eople; in Georgetown them or injure the cleeted and hca,r the possibly certain !ll!)

Tomi Gom1ciis Bill 1 U.H:crr 1!)2!)

-Seconcl Rcacling.

!

)20 tllat probably Those :.11·e is not exaet- for keeping llp the ,1Jg11i:y any muncs so as to appear inviclions­ to 1hc iu Brlfo;h Guiana pay attention necessity whfrh they should lu,rn.

I Collfess I do read the local papers anll that rny reading is not always pleas:mt.
wllo have uot cuYy tl1ose gentlemen served as i\layors on the Town Couu­ c-ils In 1he last few troublous While not envying nclmirc :1way tlrnt I 1ln tlleii- cmlcavou tlle Councils on the Ic,·el be.

years.

them I confes;; 1·ight them p:rC'ntJ .,· for of r to keep the ,ligni1�- gooc1 which.

woultl leatl to a. question but I shmtltl being dis­ out those things properly 1,v competent.

<·nuses by tlte Govcruor-in-Council, 11ot say to the Town Council solved.
tr;1 tion which arc quite en si.ly rectifie(l. Tn fa<-t, a ca,-;e to ln·ing ent moment i.11 which 011c wouhl !Jc justi­ fic<l in llb,;ol Ying a 'l'ow.n Council.

1 lrn t docs 110t menn to sa�· that such a c:use may not occur.

t0 rny mind at ihe pres­ I filHl it exhcmcly thn t it i-hould, har<l to :find I «lo Il'nt ­ There nre error;; in :ul.mi11is to to li.11c11 has bc•�n that it is i1ot hon.
rneml1er wn� the affair leave shortly, Now, finally, of OrdinanC'cs here now, in 011c G-ovc1·nme11t this Bill to allow the to briHg in n l"-imilal' Against that I 1.La,·c we should have one all or governing to mean a gooc1 ,lcal of wol'k.

Genernl is clue to go 011 but even if for Hcrbice, :\'[emlicr 'i:he hon .. T11nior wny, la-ill a little trap in a most in1•iting he askecl 1m td for Government when give the ('am;e for introclndng n 1Bill of this sort.
'\Yell, I do 11ot thin], Covern­ ment nre going to fall into tJmt trap.

",Ve clo no want to go into past history :iml to 1·nke tip clirty by t1:yil1g r!iYC cnuscs.

Let us rather look at tlle Rill in tl1c li!

):ht of bring a provision pl'cve11t of a11y cam;es a11y recurrence that.

may or may not l1avc taken place in t.J1e past.

AnotJ1er m:u1e a point that after all a Towu of tl1e people of Council the towll.

I cam1ot quite agree with I11 both of the towns ·which haxe tliat.
Town Goun<'ill.ors more flian the other, the Government, -tlrnt is to say the rcRt of tile com­ nnmity-lrns iR, anrl I hope ·will nlwnys l'crnnin, chief port nml our chief centre of trade.

New Am;;tcn1nm importn.nt will ever r·csume port of importance the future.

It is f-lovermnent',; ity to see that the Town Council,i f'ihil ni'l.m inister 1.Jtat cc of a membcl' Town Council.

Well, I slrnll give a few examples: rlocs 110t maintain ly, tl1at docs not mn,intain that docs not maintain ve11ient thi11gR.
n 11 of which are supposetl pnicl for ont of tl1c rate,; levied on the proplc.

A Council that floes not cn1'l'y o>.<kcd tq (1cfer 'fown C01rncils [Bill themselvc1,.

got one or two facts.

First of all, one the number and hon.

member me11tionecl under which the Ynl'iety 'fown Cr,nncils suffer here.

I agt'ee with the .·\Horney General tlrnt, at all poi;;sihle Ordinance Municipal It is not a simple any Town Councils.

1hing to <lo to produce an Ordinance of t.hat sort.
It is going to take time and it i,1 goi11)� 'l'hc A ttoi·ney well-ean1<'<l lie wc1·c 11ot going on leave Governmcnt·R ltantls arc so full of important 1·c-01·gn.11isatio11 not l.Je (loing jns1.ire ple to nmlertnke draftiJ1g clnri.J1g- v.lnd to hear tliat the Town Councils l,nvl:'-hcen considering forwnrcl nmc·nc1mentR.

ment is, 11ot to wnit for those Bills lmt to 1rn,;iJ tllii:: provision conYc?
to tl1em Government's confer "ith a view to tbn t tlle:v shoulcl 11p of a :Municipn.l Cor­ the drawing- that will govern po1·ntions a<lminiRtrations all M1mi.cipal Tn the circum­ 110w awl in fut.ul'e.

Rtn11C'ei-:, I am afrnicl members.

]1011. rannot 011 behalf of Gover11me11t the sug-gcstion «leferred.

a.nccc,;snry r,rovii,i s!

'rl:'-ngtlien the hands of tl1e i',fnyor,i tlic rest of the Councils in running tl1e that tl1is Rill ,ihonl<l be believe that it i;: on.
I belie-re it wUl nml the big work of re­ the Bills tlint are required :rnrl these towns·, they are competent.One hon i.s by lH) mC'nm; an 1m­ centre of trade.

"TJ1ethel' markets, and a dozen other tllc current yenr.

I was Ycr:v a big Rtakc.

(leorgetown I nrC'rpt tlmt I feel ·we should wlrnt is incrnnpctcn a Town Council that to the towns-peo­ its drninage proper­ I J1011c,;tly The deciRion its 1·onll;-.
lies il1 the mist of efficiently Ordinance proper nncl con of Govel'n­ its ancient 1·c,;p011- putting nskec1 glory as n. work of both to he our it now, which "·ill request !l�l '11u11;n Go.wncils Bill lM.\llCH 1!l2!l -Committee.

!
!

)22 a:; I baYe just un cfli\:ieul ant1 althoi1gh I should ;;a,,· 0111· papcl':-: 1.Jc rca<1 with ::;omc to and which arc ronsta111lr are not to the credit of this Cou:11:il.s lines, :,;uch scenes in Council:; 1·cferre<1 <'tt·nrring Colo11y-aml rnnst ocrasionionaUy arnrn;emcnt by our sister Colonic:,; in the 1ieighboud100cl-these :-s<·<'nc:-; n1·c not actual acts of iJH:ompctcm·y of B1·i tish :ue Yery bad for the pre;;ligc Gniaua.

The motion i:-; that thi:,; Bill be 1·earl the second time.
l,ut :-still Queslion pul, am1 agreed to.

Rill renll the SCCOJl(l tin1c.

The Countil rcsol Ycd it;;clf into Com­ the Bill c:la use l>y mittee to .consiller danse.

Clause �.-Iuterpretation.

Mr. ELEAZAR: Thc1·c arc three 110111i11:1 tell Councillors da111.

'l'his tlam,e �lwnld :1pply to all Count:illol':,;, 11orninate<l or otherwise.

in.

� cw .\111ste1·­ Mr. CRANE: I agree with the sug­ of foe hon.

member.
member.

The Coundl passed a 1·eso­ allll it \\'a,; supported nominees, :;houhl be included that 11ominat­ in a stu:h as this.

It i::; one of 'l'own 1·c_ceHtly, r:·p:-stion Ueorgelo11·J1 l uliun l,.'"

UuYcrnment ccl Count:illon; J>l'OYi:;iun the c:011ec,;sioJ1:; ]JC disposed snggct;t umlcr the prol'i:;iom; thnt all Co1uu.

:illors l>e brought that GoYenuncut of the ;Bill.


may_ to graHt, ancl I retlpec:tfully of a llomi11atell of the GlJ\'en10r-in-Com1cil as a Councillor, The ATTORNEY GENERAL: As rega rtl to l>oth Council the1·e n at is no proYisiu It is entirely in the dis­ whom and the la \Y 110,1· :;tam1s with 1he ).•ew Am:;tenlam and Georgetown 'l'o\\"n all for the qualiiicatiou l'ou11cil101·.
cretion he will 11ominate therefore n f'tac-Jie<l not attaclled Among other things the mnemlment ptoposell would require considernble rndrnfting of the Bill.

The Bill is ilrnling It would mean an mncmlment 1hc GeorgetO\nt Town Council Ordinances the disqualifications to an elected and Kew Amsterdam to :fit in with whil:h a1·e r arc the la\\-as it now :;tands.

to a nominated Councillo ,1·ith of both CounC'illor.
there 1.>eing no for the qualifi­ of a nominat­ \Yhat is now suggested, rprnlification whateYer rntion 01· clisqualification which, I ed mcmLcr.

That is a matte1: ;;ti'l.nnil and independently as it ,vould disorgan­ ise the lll'OYisions of this nm.

lie eonsidcred ', ;;houl<l separately Mr. WEBBER: I am not convilll:ed I ask that the intcqH'etation with but the remark::; .
was owncr­ ,l>rushetl 1.hat should uot lie so under this clause should ancl Government might in finding n. is now so w icle that I do any the words "or nomin­ At one time the sole of a Coune.illor -by the Attor11ey-Ue11entl '::; This is a reque:st ca Yaliel'ly aside.

I thought Government and our:selYes were co11- viucctl that we have quite enough Onlin- • 111ces without beiug threatened m1othcr.

of Councillor 1·ead "miy verson" ai1cl that after the word "elected" ntccl" be inserted.
qualitiration ;;hip of property have 1.Jeen embarrassed person with that qualification, qualification not think G0Yernmc11t person other than a llerson fted as an elected is in the positiou specially fTCatetl.

rnent ,;e11cl il5 11ot qualified?

to the Council to nominate 1.Jc1· a 11�-per,;on \Yho ha,; 110 intcl'est, trarn-ient that.

a person so nominated an alJirling as an occupier f;oYermnent.
is for the goocl of the Couneil .ernment ei llor shouhl be qualified ancl labour under the same disabilities as any other Councillor.

must ,be convinced that it aml Cov­ that a nominated Coun­ member.

Go,·c1·nment of a cm1stituency in the City eithel' or owner of property.
,Vhy shoulcl GoYern­ who should 8elect duly <p1a li­ to the Comwil a pc1·::;0H It wonlcl be unfair It is essential 01· otherwise- interest it.self should haYe as a mem- has said I Mr. ELEAZAR: With respect to what the Attorney-General do not think he is quite coned.

J 11 the Kew Amsterdam Town Council Ordinanee t.ween a nominated cillor.

�fhe section which cleals with trading with the Council has reference �o eithet beci.
!,use it says ":No Council· there is no distinction be­ elected Coun­ ancl an fl23 '1.

'oirn Cowicils Bill 1 nfartClI 1U2!J -Commil,lcc.

\.l:!-i Councillor nominated a ud if a Uouncilloi- lOJ'."

A Councillor not do a <:ertain Councillo1· does it his scat should should not do it, and if he become vacant.
should thing a nominatecl is a The CHAIRMAN: Govorrunent is the whole t-o com;idcr quite prepared question in the new Bill when it comes up, lmt at present it mea11s a great deal of re-drafting without any gain at all.

Govermnent will certainly that point when it comes up again but it cmmot ae<·C'pt the alt.crat.ion definition.

explailrncl question stand part of the Bill.

The the point.

very clearly.

h; 1 hat dam:e !


:l as prin led i11 this neral ltas The Attorney-Ge accept Questio11 put, aml agre0<1 to.

4.-\Yhat eases Cl:rnse minutes con­ clusive evidellce.

iuto that of a mem­ 1 cannot sec with re;;pect of a contract _There is no question with the Cotwcll it clothes enterecl and the Council.

with the Coun­ not to be impartial to t.ha t w11tntct members disinteresteu.

that becau::;e the U-ovcrnor-in-Uouncil has approved '1.Jm· member in ·white.
of the equity of contl"acts lie tween a Councillor A member contrncting cil is supposed eitlicr or any other matter.

I ca1111ot.

the approval is going to make a11y member impartial in any matter in which he is interested.

I hope Go,,ermnent door so wide.

If a member enters into with the Council let him be a contract as if he wants to in the same position be a clergyman.

He must choose lie­ tween senice on the Council Orders.
see that of the Governor-in-Council will not open the arnl Holy shall l1e put on must ,be com­ may be calJcd has ,been entered what shall be recorded on com­ is eutcred Mr. CHAIRMAN: Clause 4 does on the minutes this clause Mr. GONSALVES: I clon't lrnow to put not sny that everything the minutes.

I do not quite see what the lion.

member is driving at.

Mr. CRANE: I cannot agree with the hon.

member.


I think it is a wise whether it would be necessary is pron,rnrn-'l'he Uoveruor-in-Council in somethiug here.

Clause 8 says "the 'there to deci<le whether it is justified seat of a Councillor shall not be deem­ that the ge11ernl rule should be depart­ ed to be varant until the fact of such ed from.

'l'here may be a case in which vncancy of the Cou11cil a mcmlier of tJ1e Council," etr., while upon t.o supply some particular says exactly modity.
Before a contract tbe minutes.

into the Go,·crnment numicated proYed of, rtll(l vote on any question contract ernor-in-Council I mnke is that at the end of clause 5 (1)aftar "Governor-in-Council" shoulc1 be acldecl prescribe ::ubjcct cxeruted."

makes a negntive t.o f{iYe a middle rourse to the Gover­ nor-in-Cou11cil a contract provided Government not take vower to prescribe mHlcr whirh contracts into.
Jtothing not declare the scat of a member vaca11t ing ausellt .from seat cnn be declared ap· wit11 :rnd the contract 110t sl1onld that JllC'Jllbcr to that relating of a case where a member dies: his seat becomes vacant.

Mr. WEBBER: No, sir.

'.fhere is can­ the words "who may auy terms and conditions to sanction the terms are de.fined.

I ask with Councillor l.iy Govcmor-in­ Mr. GONSALVES: I was thinking lil<e that, i11 th.2 law.

You void unlesi-: Couucil.

or not.

The suggestion whe11 he dies.


It is onl_y liy be­ may be to which the contract Clausn G.-Co11trnc·t I suggest that because it f;a11ctio11ccl four 111ecli11gs whether approvei:1 I want or a positirn.

may l,e entered to consider conditions whether it will vacant.

by the Gov­ that his there Mr. WEBBER: I regret this cln use.

law not support: purpose of .M.m1lc:ipal that I can­ The wlwlc is to keep The CHAIRMAN: Doesn't the hon.

meml,r.r done?
meml,r.r done?

If an application thinl, that would be naturally came up before !

):!

;j 'l.

'01rn Gowu.

:il1; JJill 1 l\llicn 1!

}29 -Gornm'i,ttee.

926 and it is sug­ the Goven1or-in-Cou11cil gest.eel that the conditions should be altered cil will inform the Town Council and they will send back the applicatio1L of clause 3 the Governor-in -Coun­ think that.

Georgetown tluce1l honest man 011e n l.Jsolutcly I)[ thr.

Council has yet been re· to tltc :,,amc level where one virtuous now.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

man that is out cannot be found.

'!

'here is MR. CRANE: That would be the proper course.

The Council will have to sulm1it the draft co11 tract and the Governor-in-Council will decide the terms suited or not.

I thiuk that will meet the case.

whether The CHAIRMAN : The Attorney my attention arc specially l{c11ernl Ille ,fact that uc11·:,;1HtJJCl's exempted.

has just eallctl laughter).

(Uenewell to Clause 14.-Power to make rules.


Mr. ELEAZAR: The question is Mr. CRANE: I avoided raising th.t 5 ::;hould not whether clause nml the question Jn that ca::;e you will have both nomir,­ atecl and ele�ted same plane.

Councillors governed lJy clause 6- on the be cleletecl The CHAIRMAN: I am afraid that of a public I consented that any me111ber to his own pocket.

The only to have this has not got hold of of this clause.

It is en­ all principles, formal or the hon.


memller the principle tirely against otherwise, !Jody which is charged with the expen­ diture of public funds should in any way deal with those funds with re­ ference reason why clause introduced into the Bill is the fact urged ))y mere than one member this morning that very often out here we are short of men, and we wou\d either lose a valu• able member of the Council or lose a valuable contractor.
tunity is given to the Council one of their own number as a. con· tractor, anti at tltc same time to re­ lieve them of the responsibility of carrying out this moral principle by putting it 011 the shoulders supreme body of the Colony, tl1e Executive oppor· to employ of the which is Therefore, Council.

to tendency yesterrlny Authority.

Court Orilinaillce as 1!

)27 amending the in cYe1-y Ordinance made the rule::; g0Yen1· for very goo<l reasons, and creating Prior to 1!

}27 in the Supreme Court.


were made to Govorn· (JUei:ition ''ut it has struck me that there is an increasing in which rules are to lJe made for the conduct of jnuicial proceedings ignore tl1e Onlimrnce which was passed so rec<'11tly 811prernc a Rule-making the three Ju<1ge1; ing procc1lure }foprcscntations me11i and a Rule-making established, making rules.
In the Legal Practition­ crR nm pnssecl recently this form of 1io11·er to mnke n1les was put in and tl1e explanation was that it was a domestic we ga,ve way.

In t]1e Income Tax Bill it was ng-ain approved.

To-clay we find in this Bill "The Chief Justice the concurrence one of them shnll rnnke rules."

gest that we cl1ange stitute tlrn Supreme Court.


I sug· this form and sub· the Rule-making Authority was an<l it remains Lo·d,q for with of the Puisne .Tudges or of the Attorney Authority General matter and of The ATTORNEY GENERAL: 1 Mr. WEBBER: I can apprecinte might be inclis­ that a co1runotlity pensn l>le but I cannot quite sec that a member would be imlispensable.

l1ave read iJ1 a cert:i.in book of a famous city of a11tiquity ·which was cl1allcng-ed men.
I believe so and it wa� eventually :fire and a little to produce ten virtuous that city failed to do by destro�'ed I do 110t brimstone.

I however, quite apprer.iate the poh1t which tl1e hon.
member lw.s mnde of the making of rules by the 1:ule·maki11g 'l'he difference, is that this is a special proceeding i11 the Supreme Court which goes cmly to a single Judge, whose authority poi"e n]l(l whose decision differs which can go all throug-h the Supreme Court, Legim1ing to the West Indian Court of Appeal or the Judicial ii-invoked for a special pur­ is final.

This of the Privy Coun• in Chambers, Commit.tee from the case of a, proceeding Authority.

l:l:!7 Toicn Co1inciis Bill 1 lifaRCII 1!)2!)


-Committee.

tl'.

!S cil.

The snme procedure England.

is atloptecl in The CHAIRMAN: I tlo not sec how we tan legislate for that.

Question of the Bill'' ''That this cla.use stantl parl put a11d ::igrecc1 to.

:::ce the necessity for it.

Mr. CANNON: Therefor� I do not Ciause 15.-,Vhen a Council i.nay be dissolved.

Clause 17 .-Date to 1.Je fi.xell for gen• dissolution.
era l clctt ion aft.er Mr. ELEAZAR: I tlo 11ot know iHle11lio11, if it is Gorcmmcllt·s should ari:sc, to lli:,solve wltcthL·r the Jtc<·Ps:sity a l'otrndl.

l'J1arnah 11·ill ,Jo:-;e[llt.

another Governor :,ol vcs a Council a11othc1·?


I repca t my fear i:s that a tome who due,; J1ut lmo·w \Vhat fa going to happen if eomes alo11g antl dis­ and docs not have Mr. WEBBER: I invite Your Excel· c, 11ot for your own g11icla1Hl' pccd�lt :.irnl crc11 yott g:1.Yc to transhtc the decision the pror.css tcmptn Lion in tl1eir to be reqnirctl, r I .fnll.

i,-rrs 111111C'r­ Intl Govc1·110r;; :rncl it is 1rnwise In wa�·.

·yrc lenc·y the Co1rncil tltis morning into the Orcliiiam: lJ11t for that.
of your suceesson-:.

npprecia.te that your ac1\'.

sla1;<1 "·e ham hatl in the pa:,t impetuou� UoYcJ·nors, nnwii'ie Go1·ernors, t l11·ow h:tYC 110 gnarautce get of t.ltat ilk again, antl i hcrcfo:·c is clPsirahlc that l:tws should he l:1i1l tlown for 110miuatctl <·lnuse tion of a parent to :i chilrL.

T nm nsk­ iug ClonirmncJJt.

auc:e what is meant all(l so give the in what rnnunnnity confidence to CA1Ject.

The hon.

the is in the posi­ their guidance.


membe1· in c1efc11(1iug saill Uore1·J1ment in ihe Ordin­ to tlefi11e greater iL tlt:it we \\·011lcl 1iot chary to fh:rnge the policy If he tloe:s The CHAIRMAN: I do not know wl1c1.lter the hon.

meml.Jc1· 1·cally means i1., but I do 110L think ,rn :,ltould 1.mr­ tlcn the Orclin:lllte ::my further.

\Ve 1rn rn Uam:artl to show what wa:s said arnl I fancy one Governor would 1.Je i-ather adopted by his predecessor.
he only subjects in the Lcgii-:lative tinlls i.t 1·at.hcr i,nyway, l lltiJJk of con:sideratio11 i:s 11ece:ssary y, t·anscs when we a re considering ;.\Iunicipal introduce our J1ew Bill next year we might then it- awkwanl tu a111;wer.

we may lcaYe that out for t.lte lllOme11t.


H it to Ll'ing it in to clcfme more prnch;el himself to questions Council which he for 11issolution Mr. CANNON: Jl[ar 1 :i:sk what is to t.his dnuse :,;houlcl ltappett 111nler l..'ouncil lie 1lcemcd on it,; admi.ni,;lratlon Suppose the Uouucillors and ii, dissolved"!

are 1·e-elccted ?)

aul l':t[lalJlc to 1:,u•1·y a to re-ol'ganise auylhing ye1·y ,vhose To\1'11 ,The CHAIRMAN: In other words ,roulu like the disi:;o- of the Uco1·gclown CoulJ1ti:;,;i011cr c happens.
If we appoint a the hon-lllemuer 1 ut iou lu 1.Je for a stated period.

1 will iell yu11 wl1y that i:, not prad.icable.

Let u,; lake the ta:,;e of otu· lll'O '.rowu Counc:ils.

�uppo,;ing t.crrilll ,;pec:.i1tl tl1e 1'c11-Am:;tenlarn 'rowu Couneil we th:,; 1.Jut might perhaps do it in :,ix lllOll if we take six months for :Kew Amster­ <lam we :-;hall take at lcasb two yeari:; fur Georgeto,n1, Council 1.Je­ we 11·ill :suppose ha:, ueeu dissolrcll cause it was thoroughly ineffident.
The �Jm;iness Town antl com11li­ Council i,; so rnuth liiggcr g the ,·atcd.

I hope I am not.

in,iui-in f1Jelilll!

oJ' the J1ou.

mclllbcr.

The biggc't.

tl1e �l'ow11 take to put itfi aifa irs in order, so one can not pu_t if: hl'><t left as hon.

rncmlier that Govcrmnent ·,,;111t to add to its own worries ing to rnn the Municipalities.

YC;l'�· plcai:;ecl to let the Il'.Iayors ancl '1'01;·1, tlo a 11 the dirty work fo1-us, arnl we do not want to step in :1 till rlo it altogether.

t.he ho11.
t.he ho11.

meml.Jcr that the Council will ilic dis,-;olvecl U orcl'nor-i ary for the business re-organised i11g a.ml iltc elate of election will be uotified aucl the Council Fill l'esume; for just so long as the .n-Council c:om;iders a limit on the period aucl it it is.

I can assure t.he docs not 1.Jy ha.Y­ '\Ve are Council tlte longer it will and 1mt on a proper foot­ Councillori-: I rnn a:,sure of the town to he it J1ecess­ !l2!l Town Councils RiU 1 l\'1ARCH 1!
)29 -Committee, !l30 but I think I am describing imaginary Council a wholly aml no 'l'own here would ever be dissolved.

our preseut Ordinance.

it by the highest be 011c 11.:uy of getting state o:I' affairs number o;f votes may over the difficulty.

:To determine Mr. WEBBER: I suggest.

that the for "may."

1Iy ob­ clause may be amended by su1Jstituti11g the ,\'Ol'<l "shall" jer·t is to give the Couunis�ioners foll period full life .

of a Council-the will l.Je 0f two years.


Confidence est.abli,:hetl tltnt the dissolution the life of the Com1cil.

a good deal more, proviLlell is not longer thnn the The CHAIRMAN : I would suggest tlrnt the Town Council itself might the point a1ul make a recom­ consider mernlation for the next Ordinance.

Mr. LUCKHOO: From what, Your Excellen('y has said I do not think yen will put this clause of the Bill into operation, you corn!,) to New Amsterdam •we shall .welcome and I hope tliat when you.
shortly in his mind that the Governor­ would never dissolve any Council unless it was in an state The CHAIRMAN: I tlo 110t think that the hon.

member has got quite clc:u-ly Jn-Com1eil '!.

'own r1pp:11li11gly that it would be exceetliugly in any ren son able to pull it togetl1e1: 'time that might be :fixed.

I do not mind mrtking the date even five years but should not like to COIDlllit my suc­ cessor to two years.

l>nll i-tatc: sneh a difficult Quc!


)tion "That this clause as print- 0d stand part of the Bill" ·put, and agreed to.

Clause UL-Duration at general of office of Coun­ election .

elected cillors Mr. LUCKHOO: By wliat.

means seniority of mem­ on the ,;mnc day'!

of 1891 there wcl'c will you detcnnine hei·s who are elected Under the Orcli11ance seven elected mernl.Jers and 110 nomin­ atcll members.

If no Councillor shall go out!


of office the -i1ext year but one after the general election and tl1en the two senior elected C01111cillors going to .determine members.

is how arc you the seniority of until the l::;t J·nly in the question The COLONIAL' SECRETARY: T�� in another Colony where the retire in rotation is that aucl if tJieir re, they take their praetice Council101·s t"·o are due to 1•etii'c election is not opposell place at the bottom of the roster and sc11iority is tlctermincrl alphabetically.
is 110 clHficulty, Mr. CRANE: At present in New and will only arise in case of Amsterdam there ditliculty dissolution.

·be held .over ancl an amendment pre• paretl to meet the case.

that the clause I suggest The CHAIRMAN : 'l'his clause will only apply if there is a dissolution arnl we can make a note that if diffi­ cult y orr.111·s to meet the case.

we "·ill make provision Clause 22 (iii.

)-.Disquali:fication for hy reason of contract with election 'C'ouncil.

Mr. WEBBER: Many persons in­ themselYCs.


All those who corporate ,nmt to· trade with the Com1cil to clo is to incorporate t-hemselves.

Mr. CRANE: If we are to legislate have The CHAIRMAN : It is quite a thing.

llow it is done'?

(Laugh­ ,:imple ter).

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is at in exactly tl1c same way as aniYell •it was originally laughter).

arl'ived at.
arl'ived at.

(Renewed Mr. LUCKHOO: I quite see that there is some cliffkulty according to we ought amount of If a man forms a private of this question with a certain in respect 'to legislate couunoni:;ense.

compai1y between l1imsclf only two persons being required private himself and his wife whom he con­ trol,.;.

If he gets a c011tract his business I agree that with an orilinary is limited he is exempt.
share• .the company is really ancl l1is wife, company, bccanse h1 a 931 Tou:n Councils nm 1929 1 M.\RCII -Committee.

!

)32 holder a distinction hut where a man is a director compnny he ought to be disqualified from holding a contract.

might be made, of a The CHAIRMAN hon.

memuc1· proposes to do?

: What is it the to strike.

out or com­ the interest is or goes beyond the holding of it exteucls to think, with the WOl'd­ sllip of shares in an incorporated pany.
If thetefore greater any shares-if ship-I venture ing of this clause, that if the company ,contracts member would be in danger of losing his seat:.

with the Council such a to a director­ Mr. CRANE : It is not: clear from whether a direct.or-a a company and is making for the company-ought the proYi;;o wl10 eontrols contracts sit on the Council if with the Council.
t.r::u:t to he holds a con­ man Mr. CRANE: I submit that the true lietwecn a dist.inction man and a com­ pm1y is well laid down in the old case of Salamon & Co., Ltd. A person from a com­ and distinct is separate pany of which he is a director.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The 011 per­ cxe111ption so11s whose i ntcrest: is only conferred is only the owner- Tlw Committee thereafter m1til Tuesdny, 5th l\forcl1, adjourned at 11 o'clock.