Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698076439545.pdf (Guyana)
333 ,lfenibers Present LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Uno.fficial Notices 334 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

The Hon.

Jung Bahadur Singh (Dem­ e1·ara-Essequebo ).

Friclay, 15th November, 1935.

The Hon.

M. B. G. Austin (Nominated Unofficial Member).

The Council met pursuant to adjourn­ ment, His Excellency Sm GEOFFRY A. S. NoR'l'HCOTE, President, the Governor, in the Chair.

K.C.M.G., bice ).

The Hon.

Peer Bacchus (Western Ber­ The Hon.

E. M. Walcott (N omilll\ted Unofficial Member).

PRESENT.

Demerara).

The Hon.


H. C. Humphrys (Eastem The Hon.

the Colonial C.M.G., Mr. E. J. Waddington, Secretary, O.B.E.

River).

The Hon.

A. R. Cmru Ewing (Essequebo The Hon.

the Attorney-General, The Hon.

C.R.

Jacob (North Western Mr. Hector Josephs, K.C.

District).

The H<'n.

F. Dias, O.B.E.

(N ominatecl The Hon.

A. G. King (Demerarn River).

Unofficial Member).

The Hon.

S. H. Seymour (Western Major the Hon.

W. Bain Gray, C.B.E., Esseque.bo ).

Director of Education.

The Hon.


J. W. J a.ckson (Nominated The Hon.

J. S. Dash, Director of Agri­ Unofficial Member).

culture.

The Hon.

E. A. Luckhoo (Eastern Berbice).

The Hon.

E. G. Woolford, K.C.

(New Amsterdam).

The minutes MINUTES.

of the meeting of the Coun - cil held on the 14th November, and circulated, were confirmed.

as printed The Hon.

E. F. McDavid, M.B.E., Colonial Treasurer.

UNOFFICIAL NOTICES.

The.

Hon.

J. Mullin, O.B.E.

Commis­ sioner of Lands and Mines.


ing questions :- Mr. JACOB gave notice of the follow­ The Hon.

F. J. Seaford (Georgetown North).

'£he Hon.

Yv.

A.

D'Andrade, Comptroller of Customs.

MAGISTRA TES.

How many Magi�trates ba.ve, four years after examination Hoard in this Colony as to medical be accepted as a contributor Widowe and Orphans' to the Ne,v Fund, been rejected?

within the past by a Medical fitness to Major the Hon.

J.

0.

Craig, D.S.O., Director of Public \Vorks.

The Hon.

l\'I.
The Hon.

l\'I.

B. Laing, District Com­ TRANSPORT AND HARBOURS.

I.When did the Trt.uilµv,� �n:�--�forbours Department " Sir Wilfred'' and "Sir Graeme" and when were they asiem­ bled, also the dates ,vhen each started to work?

locomotives receive missioner, East Coast Oemerara Di�trict.

2.What amount bas been spent for repairs The Hon.

Q.

B.

De Freita8, Sul'geon­ General (Acting).

The H,,n.

Percy C. Wight, O.B.E.

(Georgetown Central).

year since, and to last?


The a.mount for super­ on each for every calendar 30th September, vision, ately for each completed September Jabour, and materials , 1935. to be given separ.

year and to 30th The Hon.

J. Eleazar (Berbice River).

PETITION.

The Hon.

J. Gonsalves (Georgetown South).

The Hon.

J. I.

De Aguiar (Central Demerara).

.Mr.


GONSALVES laid on the table a of the from certain petition Colony praying pensions Militia of members inhabitants that the law 1·elating to of the British Guiana Baud be revised, � of l3vtpply _33_5 Committee 15 NOVEMBER, 1935.
Committee of Sit pJJly 336 THE ORDER OF THE DAY.· The Council resolved itself into Com­ mittee and resumed consideration Estimates from Revenue for the yea1' ending 31st December, of Expenlliture to be defrayed 1936. of the TRANSPORT AND HARBOURS.

'f1rn CHAIRMAN : When the Com­ yesterd:ty mittee adjourned Head V. of the Transport Department sider the Bartica-Potaro and we are llO\\' clue to con­ we had passed and Harbours Road Service.
Mr. CRUM EWING : This Bartica­ for using as fuel gasolene either rate 2½ cents per are so prohibi­ improvement, this road i<i not serving 1934 there neees­ To begin with, freight an item required was intended of the Colony and also the loss of lives in the rivers.

Potaro Road, sir, from the point of view to help the of an investment, mining industries to minimise At present of these purposes.
rates on machinery, permanent tive that we can take our maLerial up by the river cheaper, duty pttid at the rate of 2;} cents a<; com­ pared with the freight lb.

I have in mind that in was a 2 ton drill which is naturally sary for determining the value of the Potarn river bed.

That drill cost me 55s.

per ton landed in the Colony and the freight was about $26 from London as compared with $112 from Bartica to Garraway Strea.m.
the cost of transporting around Garrnway's be in the vicinity the Companies operating giving Government a fair amount of assist­ ance to make this ron.d it permanent asset to the Colony, but we have reached the stage where we tLre so thoroughly fied wit!

:: :,:,"' reinstitute powered motors, about 22 working hours at a much cheaper rate and at our convenience which averages At the present r11.te a dredge to a point Stream bridge would ;:,'l:lL'Vi-ct: that we propose to with high about 22 men per boat.
our bout sPrvicPs which will do the trip in oE $20,000.

Most of there have been with our.

staft dissatis­ locally I ability in Africa and had service Empire during the War.

who have gone over road was put there, due to the fact that ability was not proper engineering parts of brought into play.
Ju certain the rnad iue patches of dead sand which could have been overcome, will not say by engineering only, but from to be obtained road engineers who have had experi­ ence prim,�rily in the Bl'itish 'fwo oE my engineers the road have told rue that it is impossi­ ble for this road to stand up under any conditions, for vehicles of any class to stand up to the jarring for a period of more than six Most of the lorries are dis­ ,months.
mantled in the garage at l3artica have proved absolute \Vhen we opened the rnad we tried the ThornycroEt lol'l'ies, by t-wo or three engineers, that these lorries under much worse conditions here :ind never gave any trouble, and they could not unde1'stand tinue to use this type of lorries.

which were inspected who have said were used ii,t the Front than exist and that it is impossible why we did not con on the road.
failures and four One engineer suggested that I am not criticising without offel'ing of vegetation and let tliat be a and lay it parallel suggestions.

'\\ ith the close proximity near the road it would be possib.le to send gangs of men along the road to cut and bind fascine across the ro11d.

Another enginee1· that suggested we should put in it 2 feet thick concrete base in the dead s1LJ1d concrete driving trnck.
Another sug­ gested that we should construct a. hard­ wood light rail with 1-hinged on our lonies.

He :Lctually mate of 1,bout £150 lL mile with examples of the type oE rail now being used success­ where .

there are fully in Mesopat,tmiit the about sixty miles in operation.

In Belgian Congo there are also lorries of a similar cannot advise and can only make suggestions, we can obtain morn and green-.
heart for rails, and that is all that is required metal wheels gave an esti­ to try out IO miles of road.

but I do know that for sleepers type.

I I asked· a gentleman, in thut district who is operating Coming to the Bartica.-Issano and has just come largely down from there, what is the present con­ dition of the road and he said "It is no longer there.

bridge."
bridge."

and of several great portion is thitt Government All that is left is the His opinion, others who lmve spent a of our lives in the interior, which is also mine do not know what is the object of that road.

I have been told that it is to ameliorate conditions -of life and for the last five years has been almost negligible, 11re using high powered motors and skilled in the falls.
Loss has been minimised and it is due to the fact that we in the Mazaruni blundered when that Road, I 337 Committee of Supply 15 NOV!

!MBER,, 1935. c;,mmittee of ":Supply 3'38 to be freight this year, the building to our workings by that road.

That of competency any of the present line cut in February who at·e very rigidly acted on the advice of engi-.

ove1· the road you are going examined are issued over there was a deep aud we would a new road.
·was not considered Issano is oi1e-third and I cannot people operat­ how any class of if they knew the country, could· of this ro_a_d.

with them one or two agreed with me that it would be of in the development of in the Mazaruni dis- I can come to covet· the whole roadwiLJ always have to be m1iking That argument good enough and the road was· built.

In travelling sand and corduroy-and ditch-going up ,Lnd down all the time and racked to death.
Lonies were never made to go over roads of that nature, but to go over smooth ground with a rocky founda­ tion.

I cannot conceive engineers, have advised Government neers and cannot now abandon the road.

That is the misfortune.

So much money has been sunk there.

The hon.

Member for Georgetown North, who is a mighty economist, whether it.

is possible and in that way get a light milway.


road was a mistake If we are to cater anv sort would on a large · is mute which cannot be taken at a very much cheaper rate it cannot be got out.

In any case because From Bartica to this is a matter that should be investigated Stream we are paying 1 cent per because by river and gasolene cost money into the Devil's hat.

captains be­ fore certificates to them.

When Mr. Leggate made his sur­ vey he did not stop at Issano.
His objec­ tive was to cross the Wiamu and come out at the Tibocu Fall.

the distance conceive ing sending road was cut before a proper survey was made of the area.

I went through the topographic and in speaking officials very little service the mining industry .

trict.

The only conclusion is that on the Board of the Transport Department past Bartica, none capable hinterland for the investment scale there is a much easier can be utilised than the present road.

Garraway lb.
Garraway lb.

for freight us 52 cents to that point, riage by the lorries per lb.

and the gasolene used cost them· Although the 18 or 19 cents per gallon.

necessity for new lorries exists I _am reluctantly compelled expenditure, unless Government thoroughly and immediately what is the best means of improving road before putting a new fleet of lorries on it.

THE CHArRMAN: Would the hon.

Member for Essequebo Rive1· add to his criticism of this road wh,Lt he we,Lnt when he said the road is no longer there?
Is it so cut up or what?

to vote against the is prepared to investigate the there is no one who has gone with the result of giving advice as regards 'fhe and a light railway of There whereas the charge is 2 cents l\fr.

CRUM EWING .. : It is in such a a forest of good wood, but that wood might be able to suggest cannot go on dropping have been better.

Gover!ll!lent to lay mils on tiles or Georgetown transport.

s_tate that it is.
s_tate that it is.

of capital to Bartica that there is for car­ Mr. ELEAZAR: I should like to en­ syllable of going over this of that sort.

Before of the hon.

Member.

trip.

I can h,Ll'dly dorse evet·y I had an opportunity road only once, and it would take ,L lot to make me go over it again in a lorry.
That was on a pleasure con­ ceive how anybody could i.ravel on that road by means of lonies laden with heavy machinery and things any attempt to build that road wiLS made it was proposed to build a railway into the hinterland.

One of the groui1ds against the road was that it was going to be built through a sandy desert, and the section of the country through which it was to run was known to be always flooded in · times of · heavy i<ainfall.

that after e·.
that after e·.

ery heavy rainfall sand would urged Rivet· 011 his cleat· of this road.

It is spe11k hut I with this matter.

So far Mr. DE AGUIAR : I should like, first the hon.

�l em bet· exposi­ of all, to congmtulate for Essequebo tion of the condition often said th,1t Members generally destructively do not think it can be said that the hou.
�1 ember has not offered constl'uctive ad vice in connection as I am concerned I p1·efet· with the estimate endeavoured to point out that the estimate framed, in connection ,v1th the .Bartica--Potaro Service, will not result in a working profit, and I propose to the best · of my ability ment.

I h,LVe no intention cry over spilt milk.

A good number of us, including myself, road has served some purpose, to prnve that state­ whatever to; in ruy previous particularly have agreed that this before the Rouse.
I remat·ks to de�Ll and in- , as .

It stood to reason therefore and not coustl'uctively, :3"313 Comm,ittee of Supply 15 NoviutBE8, 1935.

Committee of Supply · 34/1 Mr. DE AGUIAR: Yes, sir, it is there.

have we t of those lorries Development and Har­ made for only $2,500.

I this iu the net deficiency Jf what the hon.

River said is cor­ is lost.

\Vhat provision ?

It is included Council has to vote.


The point I was making is Lhat the Colony has bo1·­ rowed from the Colonial Fund the sum of $30,442 for the pur-­ chase of these lo.rnes, �nd I should like to know how are we going to get this money back from the Transport bours Department.

Member for Essequebo rect it seem� that the whole of that $30,000 made for the replacemen I see provision have been told that the lorries state of disrepair.

been made to offset the initial expenditure?


to suggest that this road should be I think it would be a step in scrapped.

the wrong dit'ection, backwood step, but I would advise that before any further eithe1· incurr-ed, of lorries, or for the purchase the whole question sho_uld reconsider the light of wlmt has been said this morn.

some other ing, in order to see.

whethe1: steps should not be taken to ca1Ty out the original ing of tbs road.
is for maintaining which led to the build­ I would be the last person \Vhat provision indeed it would be a intention capital are in a in expenditure the 1·oad Government has capital 'l'HE CHAIRMAN: I think it will facili­ tate discussion replies have been raised.

if the Colonial Secretary and elucidate;; certain points which the consideration the dP.velopment But I hope that the sug­ beforn any further 11ddi­ of the hon.

Member for Ess.e­ some respect improved of the country.
gestions quibo River will receive of Government tional expenditure tion with the service.

to the fact that the lorries made reference on this road consume gasolene operating duty free.

It would be interesting know how much reven�e is lost in that direction.

is incuned in connec­ The hon.

Member to THE CHAIRMAN : What does the hon.

Member mean by "lost "?

It would be paid out of Government in any case.


funds eventually by a private indivi­ a hand, for the past five for 1936, from that these estimate:; was operated Those of us who have been framed and do not prove Apart from the money on the othet· to use it free, and I think I am that it is a loss to Mr. DE AGUIAR: It is lost to the revenue from the point of view that if the Service dual he would have to pay duty on the gasolene.

Government, is allowed right in maintaining revenue.
Members of the Council years will appreciate are not correctly the true position.

that was borrowed from the Colonial Development Fund for this road, which, the expenditure including figures before me amounts to $663,393, has been borrowed further sum of $30,442 from that source for lorries.

That money will be repaid by the Colony.


As a mat­ ter of fact a portion Budget for 1936, but I can find nowhere in the estimates fund to the Treasury of the money bonowed for the pur­ The finst sum bor­ chase of the lorries.

and there has been an rowed was $14,400 additional getting Development it is proposed heard where the money is to come from­ of capital ful'ther to incur a $15,000 for the purchase I should like to be informed will be paid by the Transport or whether it is from.
current revenue, pro.posed tq raise another loan for the amount.

any more money from the Colonial Fund for this purpose, but next year-I have not yet expenditure of uew lonies.

that whethe1· a 1·e­ of the Department loan of $16,042.

of it is akeady in our Vile are not, Department of their proportion THE CHAIRMAN : It will be found on last item.

page 9 of the Appendix-the sit', of the hon.

of Public River was not the statement on.


\Vith rngai·d TH� COLONIAL SECRETARY : Sir, a good deal of the debate has dealt with the state of the road and the survey of the route for the road, and on these points ] am goiug to ask the Director Works to.

speak later· to the 1·ates, for Essequebo :!.\-lembet· quite correct.

He gave the figure of 2½, cen�s from Bartica to Potarn.

That figure of 2½ cent,; is from Georgetown to Potaro, and the mte is 2 ceuts from That works to Garrnway Sti·eam.
B,u·t.ic,- ouwa1·d�, as out at $-U a tun from Bal'tica was car­ compared with $60 when freight 'rhat 1·ate works 011t ried by Sprostons.

at the figure of 4 cents per ton per mile, and I think that, having regard to the country over which this tratlic is going, it must be realised prnfit in canying on at that rate.

As that there is really no 341 Commtttee of Supply 15 NovrtMB&R, 1935. dommittaa of Suppiy 342 tion for the traffic is by the use of cordu­ roy, much maligned by the hon.
Member for Berbice River.

before very long, and con­ is being given to the question of from lssano further :Members are aware, the l'Oad to Issano will be finished sideration transport The whole question and for the river will be reconsidered in toto as soon as this new line of traffic is opened.

of rates fot· the roads up stream.

The hon.


Member for Essequebo River no the road at and lorries those lorries The question was very carefully can move along Of 24 lonies 20 are in commis­ He also criticised and made suggestions type, and said that in the were used has told us that there are practically lorries that presCJnt.

sion at the moment and serviceable four are under repairs.

the type of lorries in regard to another other parts of the world, including Belgian Congo, with very great su�cess.
of the type of con­ sidered, not only by our people here but in close consultation in England who are conve,.san-t wit,h the state of affairs in many countries nature, and their advice is being taken as to the type of lorry that should be used.

I suggest get better advice in 1·egard to the type of lorry to use than what we a1·e getting at the present time.

That is all I wish to say at the moment, and I will ask the Director of Public Works to make a few remarks to hon.
Members that we cannot in regard to the roads .. with engineers of this River fascines.

such as this.

in countries examination is a step furthe1· 'rim hon.
Member in but I do not think that a made years ago, so that the is not one that has not been suggested had made more than a of the l'Oad he h,we found the remnants for Essequebo stated that one of his engineers, who had been a Sappel' in Frnnce-I happened to belong to the same Regiment and was also a Sapper in France-had Tf that enginee1· superficial would prnbably of fascine suggestion tried out.
Fascine taking traffic over bog and is used for road development The use of corduroy my opinion, technical discussion serve any good purpose, the pose to pursue the question.

hon .

.Member that I would be only too pleased aud discuss their views with regard to roar!

construc­ tion and maintenance.

see them at any time and discuss the matter, some satisfactory state that I purpose the roads in the interio1· rises.
I shall then be able to report on the condi­ tion of this road from my point of view, which I hope will be more favourable than the report we have received from the Member for Essequebo and ·we may be able to come to I ought to inspecting in this House will and I do not pt·o­ I assu1·e to meet his engineers after the Couneil conclusion.

I am prepared River.


to Major CRAIG (Director is very suitable for of Public of this and 011 which I find my­ the statement with Government, Mr. HU .M PHR YS : This is one of it; we have also had criticisms I am one of those Mem­ who strongly ·works l : Sir, the construction road has been the subject of severe criti­ cism of all and sundry.

We have had criticisms which have been very much against from others who have been in i-ts favour.

I can hardly believe of the hon.

Member for Essequebo River when .


It he says that the road is not passable is now eight months since l went over it myself,, carried at all possible as suggested are several methods that can be used, and stivem1 methods have been used, when the maintenance of the road was undet· my jurisdiction.
We Lried out every possible economic means to put down a surface that would be satisfactory that was going over the road, and my opinion t.ory means of keeping this and, even had no maintenance out at that time, I do not think it that it could have gone west by the hon.

Member.

There those rare occasions self in sympathy that is because bers of the Council that this road should be constructed maintained.
In spite of the difficulties present and the high cost of transportation, the l'Oad is going to be a g•reat asset to the Colony.

It is really begin­ ning to be one of the big highwayr, into the interior.

I quite agree with all that has been said by the hon.

Member for Essequebo condition and I urg · on Government effort to reduce freight as possible, is lost by boats taking freight I am info.rwed the lorries.
Manager of the Train13po·rt River as regards of the road and' freight advocated and at charges· as much considerable is that the only economic satisfac­ instead-of by the General of keeping the road in repair Depai'tment to make every, the present for the traffic road in condi- charges, revenue because been 343 · C-oinniiUee of Supply 15 NovEMBKR, 1935.
Committee of Sup11Zy 344 there is no that at present �and I was convinced it is not practicable-that as profit revenue coming to Government on freight as goods are practically 11t cost.

We know as a fact that it cost $9.50 to canv a ban-el of cement ever the road, and it does not require a Mathema­ tician to say that no industry headway when it has to pay such terrific charges for freight.
carried can make between 4 of the ve1·y imper­ was somewhere was not sufficient the continuance by boats and other means via.

closed down be­ ti-attic to the difficulties, in the and 5 cents per lb.

Operations district had practically cause ther·e warrant fect service the Demerara that although Service heavy rate-naturnlly to be lower-the the freight pet· lb.

to-day it is a very imperfect service.

that while rate by water may be l½ ceuts as charging we would all like it Transport a ve1·y River.
What strikes me is is criticised fact i-emains the Colonial It is true that the cost of maintemmce is a 1·isk, by road as I as possi-_ to travel in-board machinery into because of Public Works I am assured especially ahead with the gold every effort should be made in the Cabul'i and I think you will find the Com­ any work at all.
That of the road gangs not high, but it a great deal of money is of the road is tremendously is reported that w_asted as the result performing matter that the Director should enquire that it is a fact.

Now that mining con - cerns are getting industry, Potaro rive1·, to encourage them to transport and other requisites as cheaply ble.

If Government were tomon-ow to decide to throw open the road to the public, panies doing a considerable amount work on it themselves, going to do it while Government monopoly.
to co-operate would be used as a highway and would be of use to the public.

I also ask Govern­ ment to consider it is not advis­ able to issue licences there to use their own vehicles.

It may be that with the use of high the motors on the rivers powered risk to life must be minimised, but the fact remains tlrnt there is a distinct and 1 would prefe1· think most.

people would.

But above we have to remember that evt-1·ything these boats could not take up heavy lifts.
When the boats bad to cross the rapids and go over the falls these heavy lifts became almost impossible No one can handle 2 01· 3 tons of cargo at 1½ cents per lb., and I am sure that my friend ciate and con:6.rm what I say.
'Ne also have to take into consideration that when we had a good deal this road was started and one of unemployment of the reasons that influenced our late Governor to sti1rt the l'Oad was to find an outlet fo1· unemployment to that I believe In addition the .road would be an easier· munication doubtedly to be the case, and further· that miners would be able to get They could walk if they up there e11sily.

don't want to go by lorry.


Since this road has been sti1rted there has been immense development in the Potaro district.

on engineering p1·ob­ hon.

friend hope he will.

that I made the statement understand that the freight charge is 4 cents per ton per mile.

I should have said 40 cents.

industry that my is going to benefit by it, .11nd I of but they are not hold the means of com­ wirh the Potaro, which un­ in Georgetown.
he thought Tm� COLONIAL SECRETARY: I of the gold I believe One would expect Government with them, because is thoroughly honest and will appre­ in the Colony, of handling.

operating has p1·oved to persons whether the road hon.

that the hon.

Member for I am going to a8k Members of back a to take their memories a good deal of Mr. WALCOTT: I am not going to talk about the i-oad when I have not been over it or to speculate lems, but the Council few years.
I appreciate the cl'iticism Essequebo because biased, by the Transport Board make for better results, larly concerned.

back six 01· seven years.

I was interested in the Potaro district cost of transport at that time and the of then, to say nothing was un­ his criticism co-operation with him I believe and a little River has levelled would proba.bly but I am particu­ at Government with getting memories Cl'iticism is good, and I believe that the of Government me11sm·es fair and of the hon.
Member is· genuine, criticism but in criticising this kind we must be perfectly take the thing as a ·whole It is always in p,11·t, to ci·iticise refened st.i-ucted in a measu1·e to the.

fact that the road was con­ unemplor- easy to criticise but sometimes to relieve any schemes i': is very difficult it as a whole.

I have a.lready and not in part.

345 Committee of Supply 15 NOVEl\IBE11, 1935.

Committee of Siipply 346 the to Rock­ to-day I prices and not Further, where shelter tremendously.
in the morning in to this subject, get stores from George­ many of us speak about the I then left Georgetown and went as far as Wismar, and I may the hon.

M rm her has almost every respect.

up to the Potaro and a reply in four days.

When I had hy boat I did not know they would get there or not, and inent.
I will now point out that the returns of gold from the Potaro have in­ creased can get a letter receive to send letters whethe1· if they did get there it would be two or three weeks before I. could get a reply.

There is yet another itdvantage.

Small people-and smnJl people-can town at the lowest possible be fleeced by those whom I have heard frequently referred big shop-keeper in the interior."
They every can get s_upplies from Georgetown other day, and get them in small quanti­ ties at the same rate as for large q uanti­ ties.

That is a very distinct It is a .

benefit to these small people that we cannot lose sight of, many of whom I know are making a living which they would have been unable to do with-­ out the convenience contribution say at once that anticipated me in It is now 35 years ago since I visited Potaro district.
by steamer by the train service crossed stone and spent the night there.

I left at : 6 o'clock an open boat, exposed to the weather, for Tumatumari from vided fo1· the night.

I travelled 'l'umatumari to Pntaro Landing also in an open boat with two professional men and a Member of the Executive Council.

we were conveyed property of the Rhodius Syndicate, where there were two or three min­ ing syndicates in operation.
ney then was far more difficult ess comfortable over the present the journey conditions continued Colony for a number of years.

The con­ sequence was producing any notice.

Then there came a time when there was a complete of the service and it was not possible, the will of Messrs Sprostons, Potaro at all.

to the fact that only two or three on the road.

I do not think lorry on the East Coast than that.

road.
road.

Those in this On ar1 ival at Potaro Landing to as " the dishonest that the Potaro as a gold One Member referred than on any por·tion The jour­ and far by a donkey cart to the interruption except at to operate of this road.

to attract to get to the beuefit.

was pro­ of impassable service were giving to be.


In fact, I was that it was so bad tlrnt I the lorries years' that the average road gives much more ser·vice It is not so many years ago that the East Coast road was in such a condition that I could not travel two miles an hour o� some parts of it, and my high powered motor car did not last more than three years.
If, then, a lorry lasts two or three years on this so-called road, the road must be rather better than it has been described made to believe h,we not had t.he temerity to travel over it yet.

I notice that the travelling allow­ :ince to the Colonial Secretary 'for next year.

Jf the Colonial 'has to go over this road very shortly if the will ueed an amplified read is as bad as it is represented to be.

I would like to congratulate the Trnns­ port Depa1·tment on the work they have done on this road.
They have a very good Board, to say nothing nel, and for their excellent undertaking specially trained sideration they deserve than they have received.

of the person­ in an service for which they have not been better con­ is only $50 Secretary he allowance Mr. WOOLFORD: The speech which has been just made is a most valuable The position in which the Government 11 service River.

This and after considerable to contract, and in this room to adopt.

We were in this community.

was held up.


Government with respect was placed at that period is perhaps be­ of a good many yond the recollections But commu­ persons was nication with reprisals to threatened of the the continuance a cleavage occurred in consequence, there was a long debate as to what should be the best expedient offered by the Government Kurupukari on the Essequebo was not favoured route was deter­ discussion mined 011.

What is the result?
What is the result?

To-day one can leave Georgetown, journey by steamer to Bartica, a comfortable night's proceed fortable Potaro.

It is now possible leave Bartica and Potaro district done it mvself and Members of this Coun­ cil know -that is the tl'Ue position.

Is that to be compared for one to be in the heart, of the the S!tme night.
I hav� spend rest there and then uncom­ but a safe journey by road to on, I admit, a somewhat this p!11·ticular have !1 pleasant in any· way with district failed entirely 347 Committee of Supply 15 Nov�MB,, 1935.

Committee of Siipply 348 conside1·able lie to existed?

Is it of men who a1·e livelihood it.

Cargo has to in some c·ases risk to life and Government by boat to Rockstone, involves charges by means of a road?

Is it to be thousands a comfortable of that privilege?
Does whether their interests or not, to be conveyed in safety and comparative which previously conditions going to be said that it is not an advantage for persons, beyond Bartica this district comfort said that the there now earning are to be deprived River the hon.

Member for Essequebo know what the Savings Bank <leposits of these men show ?

Does he know of the residences up by the prosperity working for gold hon.
Member not aware tlmt time when these men, apart from being unemployed, know of many instances have their wives and homes in that dis­ trict.

Is that not a condition which we ought to be proud?

its destination.

for proprietors in the Potaro siderable should not permit it.
It is also known that the journey delay and increased to !,hose who support to Bartica, be sent from Georgetown and transhipped where from there by boat to Tumatumari boat to another it is again transhipped J s it before reaching economic to send a conveyance ing to handle cargo which has been ui,m­ so often and at great risk of handled age than to have it taken to their door­ stel' in a lorry, over an uncomfortable suit some proprietors, custom it will not prove acceptable.
I the idea that when the Trans­ deprecate is doing its be�t to meet port Department the wishes of customers threatened be constantly I do not think it makes for the encournge­ ment of a happy relation Board and its pat1·ons.

starving?

I were practici1lly where men to-day even though it is carried road ?

This may and Buxton built gained by them by In my view much of the criticism of the in the Potaro ?
Is the but as a general to the Potaro Land­ in Pbisance and I attri­ between the of things of there was a they sl10uld with opposition.

its maintenance.

Department with as to whether the Department to supervise to the fact that the is not in a to place in charge of the road an until recently, and traffic.
which Gov­ state of the road is justifiable, aute it very largely Public Works Department position Engineer As we all know, the Transport was mainly concerned, of passengers the conveyance of policy, It is now a question ernment is considering, maintenance of the road should be under the Transport Works Depa,rtment.

whether opinion supervision Depal'tment, of advantage of a road ment should have the oversight over which their lorries pass from time to time.
But that matter is at present receiving will be arrived Board and some decision at sooner 01· later.

It may be expected that some material effected in the condition the co-operation Department.
under the Public Works but it does seem to me to be that the 'l'rnnsport there will not be better improvement will be of the Puhl It is a matter of of �he road with 01· the Public ic \Yorks Depart­ of the the careful coasiderntion that we should and leave the opposi­ When it is suggested this service abandon tion to run their own service fact is overlooked that to prevent such a power of Government service course.

is being maintained to Rockstone the it is within the from Bartica at con.
· The present entirely, Some comment was made by the hon.

to t1Lke at the present in wood-cutting.

to tell the hon.

l\I em her is not only d,1ing its to Bartica.


My with the conditions of along the road has in the hope that it liv­ of will not offer them that, and Member for Berbice Rive1· about wood­ along the road being unable to get cutters their wood trnnsported own acquaintance life of these squa.tters been that they lnLve been induced up these ,dlotments will provide them with a permanent the quality ing.
It is now known that the soil -there their only remedy for relief moment is by engagit1g I am in a position that the Department best to convey that wood to J3a1·tica but is purchasing the wood-cutter but the time will come when all the avail­ off the land able wood has been stripped and these people will not be able to earn a Ii ving at al I.
The best thing they can do is to put up with present the Department best to purchase like 1 o add that the Boarcl of Dfrectors have kept in close consultation best engineering rf'gard to the most suitable or vehicle General has had 1he advantage who has been on leave, of im interview 11.t" a price which cannot obtain conditions, and to do its will continue ,their produce.
with the in England in · o be used on the road, and the elsewhere, that wood type of lorry Manager, experts I would with 349 Conrn,,ittee of Snp11ly 15 NovKMBf�1't, 193?\.

Conm,,ittee of Sn7,z,ly 3f>O roust ,,he Engineers.

His local lrno,vl.edge have been of great benefit to the Engineers itnd final decisions arrived regard to the use of Ford lorries or any other, will be carefully considered by the Board and the best and most suit able lorry employed in sel'Ving the public.

at, whether in cr·op up.


I am informed Wong is on the lloal'tl.

Mr. Evan ·w ong has a good deal of know­ ledge and ance to that Mr. Evan It is true that therefore the .Board.

can be of great assist­ Mr. CRUYl EWING: I hope none of either.

understood of the Council were directed the Members me to sav that the road should be aban­ doned.
·u was never my intention to have created that impression My criticisms to the manner in which the roitd service is being operated, and I also suggested ·a possible solution to relieve the present Hituation.

If a Company is operating in the Potaro river, what is io prevent that Company from shipping machinery in ,t cargo boat by river?
The poiut I desired to make was to suggest should be given to whether not be a special rnte for machinery and things used for permanent operations, such as galvanised sheets for instance.

The freight sheets is ridiculous.

that consideration rnte on galvanised there should Anothe1· point which was made by the one The Trnnsport else it h»s helped heard was that it was quite impos­ is due to the construction of this there.
I think shown in the inte1·ior Whethet' it is to remain as a road or not is a mat­ run lonies over the road and dues and it is only right thitt Many years of the mining arose the great objection hon.

Membet· is the cost of getting machinery to the district.

tigo when the development industries alw:1ys sible to get machinery much of the interest to-dity road ; if it does nothing to open up the country.

likely te1· open to question.


Department collect they should maintain if that is >1 wise course, I »m not aware that they have otlicers with much experience the primary object Department, · a mistake hands of the Public Works Department.

I may be criticising some officer of the 'fransport Department, but I rlo not wish to do so as I think they have done very well.

The point is that Govern ment started with it, and the only question is how are they to do it in an economic»!
way with the incl'easing to take that duty out of the and I feel at times that it is the ro»d and have to go on of roadmaking.

That is it.

I do not know unfairly of the Public Works traffic.

however, because Mr. SEAFORD : The hon.

Member for The critici,m of the Transport been answereq The next poiu t has already Secretary.

Department The criticism, Berbice River tried to inveigle me into a trap.

Fools rush in whe1·e Angels fear to tread, ,ind I am not going to make a fool of myself on this occasion.
to which we have listened has really been no criticism or of the Board as it exists.

as I see it, has been more or less an attempt to 'l'he first point is the cost of be helpful.

t·ransport.

'l'hat by the Colonial is the type of road.

I think hon.

Mem­ bers are afraid tha,t as traffic grows a,nd the country is opeued up this roitd will be quite incapable with the traffic it is hoped to handle over it.

The hon.
The hon.

Member for Eastern Demernrn su«aested that the road might be the begin�ing the opening up of the interior for greater things I am afraid I am not so optimis­ tic.

I am also afraid kind could never· that kind.

The criticism Member for l<:ssequebo River there was nobodv on the Board with suffi­ cient knowledge· that is a very good point.
I do not know of anyone on the Board with a knowledge of the interior with questions that a roitd of this be used for anything of this nature that might which is necessarv of the interior.

of dealing of the hon.

w:ts tluit to de,tl I think �f of Tm CHAIRMAN: We have had a has unde1·­ and I think the conditions: to see which would react Board will agree with rne in .

Gover·nment between Fo1·d and very useful discussion Transport saying that.
Before we pass on I wish to add two details taken »n experiment Morris lorries better to the existing is to say the lorries are on Ol'der but not yet on the road.

The other det»il is with regard to the upkeep of this road.

I entirely I think we all agree­ th»t an officer with engineering experience will be necessary to supervise the m»in­ tenance 'l'he of them is such now that it would be uneconomical of money required under expert supervision.

not to put the large amount of the roads in future.
fo1· their m»intenance agree-and length that Head VII.-Harbour Services.

3'"il Gommitlee of Su,pply 15 Nov1rnun, 1935.

CommittP-e of :Snp71ly 352 Sub-head 3-Trn,ining Officer and Pilot, $1,920.

Mr. ELEAZAR: This sub-head is creat­ of an For next year from here in one's mind.
t� Barba.dos have been created for the creation Office1· at a salary of pilot apprentices how it comes to pasR that so In this cou11try our ·e is that we always want people ing some apprehensio11 One wonde1·s within manv new oflices the ·last yea.1·.

In this Department they and have been tni.ining for the cunent ye:ir a sum of $540 was voted for that puq,ose.

and years to come we are to be saddled with a Training $1,920 rising to $2,400.
I understand that there is no necessity of this office and the importation officer of this class.

I have read some­ an officer with deep sea know.

where that ledge is required.

misfortun to do work that we have not got to give that them to do.

We have no steamer 01· Trinidad, travels yet we want an officer with deep sea experi.

to run along the ence to train our pilots This officer will coast and go up rivers.
know nothing about our problems, and rivers, coastlands travel in the ,faep sea where use for him.

Perhaps Government are an, icipating would be opened up and our steamers wonld not only s:1.il rivers but would also rnake ocean-going trips, us to embark on this expenditurr.

to know whether it possible post.


Your ExceJlency surprised in this Department the Colony, who to9k the trouble, of the creation doubt in anticipation this job, to go to England sat the examination for a Master's but tho13e days a1·e too far away for I want r.annot find no of and successfully to know that there an officer, a native of our but we want him to we have no the time when the country of the Board of Trade certificate.
a local mim to this up and down our Government is at present to appoint will perhaps be olfice1· is still in the Service, to bring some­ of the �oard of Trade the otiicer was told for him " to get but he took his chance and got ing the permission to sit the examination that it was impossible thrnugh," there.

'l.

'lu1t but lrnre is the suggeHtion body from abroad.
More than that we have a Commodore, a native of the Colo11y, of the routes along the coast and up the to that of any other mau rive1·s in the Colony.

The Commodore has men in his time, hut we trained still want to bring a man from outside at the same salary as he is getting at the present pla,ce the himself.

newcomel' over the superior several who is unquestionably with ti.

knowledge time.
knowledge time.

'l'he 11cxt move will be to Commodore An officer with deep vVe get too many bit-ds to teach what ?-to teach of passage com­ birds ing to this Colony, and · sometimes of prey.

Here we have two officers capa­ this work-I do not ble of performing suppose they have been consulted-and in order to throw dust in our eyes we a1·e told that an officer with deep sea experi­ ence is necessary.
sea experience young men when the Commodore to teach him before lhope Your Excellency sity for striking conceive 11 monopoly on these Boards they can make a pro­ nouncement a say in the matter.

I am going to ask Memhe1·s an item of this kind.

Fo1· this }tgai11st year we are paying !j,540 for ti-aining apprentices to $700.

increased he can • teach others.

will see the neces­ out this item.


I cannot that Members of this House have of wisdom and when they get and for next year that item is nnybody else luiving to set their faces of the Council without will have Tm: CHAIRMAN: Has the hon.

Mem­ ber looked nt the explanation item?

against the Mr. AUSTIN: '£0 a point of conection.

Mr. ELEAZAR: There is not much The otlicer (Laughter).

was born in Barbados.

Mr. ELEAZAR: I don't kn-0w where Buxtonian bu•.

he belongs to he was bom, sir, this Colony.


At any rate, whether or Berbician, Barbadian, to live in British had the foresight Guiana, certificate identical go to England and obtain the Trade for the of the Board of of training.

In obtain- purpose he attention is that at the time we have 1i:ten capable about that.

I am only calling to the fact t,hat the item has been in­ My complaint creased.

of train present They have given good se1·­ ing apprentices.
vices m. the pr1st in that direction, i111d if a little given the opportunity with perhaps thev ,.-an continue to more remuneration •,we are not econo­ train the apprentices.

mising afte1· the appointmrnt all and I am strnngly of an outsider.

against I u11der.

353 Co1mn'iaee of Supp ly 1"5 N ov�;�rn�n, 1"93 '5.

Committee ot S�•pply 354 stand that the Commodore is merely of the wharf.
If tlrnt is all he is lllanager doing he can be seconded, per­ or another to manage the wharf, for• son appointed the purpose these particular duties.

of performing out a man, who has had is fo1· that reason I think that there shot1ld be brought experience possesses the younger ties of piloting ara, Essequebo generation steamers and other rivers.
certificate, a Master's into the Demer­ to train in the responsibili­ of deep water navigation and THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: The part of of their effi­ the standard of the steamers but the pt·imary of having a relief of a minor nature.

is to train the steamers' who are hoping and export to procure That, of course, crews now leaves much is and such ,1 state of affa.irs a is of the post at all.
The they may be minor so far as a1·e concerned, they crews, the training of it is to so may be very and Hat·­ and it is that there should be some­ I would like to refer to one other remark of the hon.

Member for Berbice River.

Pilot Walcott came down here to join the Police Force.

'l'his Colony has wo1·k and he is educated him in pilot's doing it very efficiently.
There is no reason why someone should not be brought down he1·e from Canada 01· the United Kingdom and taught as Pilot Walcott has been taught.

Members that this Colony will progress much more than it is doing will consider the advisability or pilot who can undertake training the younger ing ships into the harbour and taking them out to se,t.
Another point is that the Harbour Master and tl1e TL"ainiug Officer should themselves not think it is right that the Harbour Master should take his assistants on the bridge of any boat when he is in charge of that boat.

He should be able to pilot a or any othet· schooner, boat a man -o'-w,u- into this port.

Unfortunately that is not at present hon.

Member for Berbice Ri,•er regards this vote as being intended man to train pilots.
not the intention main object His work also will embrace pilots, train the personnel as to improve ciency.

ft has been found that the train­ ing of the steamers' to be desired, apt to lead to aecidents Although ,1ccidents costly so far ,1s the Trnnsport bours Department very necessary body on the staff cap,1ble proper knowledge say in that connection investment represented is $710,000 importance should be men properly to take cM"e of them.
A man such as we will requil'e will have to possess practical knowledge theol'etical and hold a Mastel''s to say � man who h,1s sel'ved Service.

this sol't is necessary having a fleet of vessels representing capital investment which to.

that the capital by these steamers and it is a matter of gre,1t that the crews of these vessels and sea expet·ience 'l'hat is certificate.

the Merchant Mr. DE AGUIAR: I am sony to be but I have not of imparting I may of these men.
H iu the Service I think it is dear that a man of of searoauship.

in a Department fo1· the training I have referred is concerned, generation be pilots I do the duties of trained in bring­ done.
officer ihe and who is the for the training has to him, but nothiug is that he is incapable of pilots, of doing this discussion, from the Colonial Secretary at who is responsible drawn into heanl either 01· the last speaker present therP is somebody responsible inference the work assigned been said to show that is the case.

I l'ook upon the appointment roan with a great deal of suspicion, upon this particular appointment cre�tion of the post of Deputy Ha1·bour Master which was aboli�hed.
should satisfy Deputy Ha1·bour Another point I should like to mention that I gather that ihe officer has been already 'l'his House itself as · to whether a Maste1· is required.

aud as the of any highly paid selected.

is THE CHAJ:RMAN: 'That is not the case.

Mr. AUSTIN: I do not think there is who can aecuse roe The pilot who has been referred all things being equal.
I consider to one coming from t,o promote the local anyone in this Council of not endeavouring man in preference abroad, this is wl1at might be called a key position.

to by the hon.

Member for Berbice River is a very able man.

Captains this port to have him on their bridge to any other pilot, but they cannot always obtain his .

services.

<lo not inspire The men under Pilot Walcott and it' the same confidence, coming to p1·efer with the Harrison boats of Sn1Jzil 355 Committee y 15 NovKJIIBE·11, Y935.
Co11mi'iue-, of Stipp!y 350 Mt·.

Di,: AGUIAR: 1 hope, sir, it is not the I shall vote against the case, because item.

who meu at prnsent employed are suitable can undertake move the reduction • deficiency of $47,657.

this job, and I therefore of $1,920 from the net Mr. HUMPHRYS: I move Lhat the question be now put.

THE CHATRi\JAN: I will put that Ml'.

SEYMOUR: Before the question to make a few remarks.

is put, sir, I desire question mittee.


as ,L concrete one to the Com Ta1t CHAIRMAN : I am bound to put under the Rules of the House.

the question If Members do not wish it to be put they that motion.

Does the will vote ,igainst hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara wish be put?

that his motion Mr. HUMPHRYS: Yes, sir.

Tm: CHAIRMAN : I find myself in ,t ditlieulty.

There is no question the House.

This is merely ,t discussion 011 the Transport Department's estiunites.
before 1\J r. 8EY.MOUR: I a.pp1·eciate the but to view the way.

There are men in but I am inclined of ·having an otlicer of this <le�irnbility uature, matter in another Bnglaud who take boats around the North Sea, many _of them not fully qualified We have not such deep good navigators.

olticet·s, first-class here to require rive1·s and I do not �ee the necessity for this otlicer.

We do not get ships coming in every day and from what I know he would that I understand not be fully occupied.
his duties will not be to train pilots but to train crews in seamanship.

,�,'e do not have much work around this coast, and I think it is overstepping in another on the pension the tirne and should not make this appoint­ ment.

list.

\\Te are borrowing officer who will eventually the mark to bring go all Mr. WOOLFORD : I think it ought to of because vacancy.
by the l'6tire­ there is likely to be a for the appointment to fill an anticipaLed for the benefit of Members and ,L new appointment be explained that the proposal ,L Trnining Officer and Pilot has become necessary vacancy in the Depa1·tmeut ment of a pilot.
It is not really a ques­ but a new tion of a new appointment appointment It is true that the pay of the post is being increased is being ma.de, but the fact remains that the Pilot­ at present age Service even if this appointment It very often happens be promptly is continuously for a period of days, and opportunity being tiiken who would be able to undertake pilotage men at p1·esent equipment nmdered possible present Captains served in a similar but the opportunity to them of imparting under them.
c1·ews to get an office1· not merely duties but also the trniuing 'l'he whole iu the Service.

has been Service by the training the got from others who that vessel,; cannot to iind that one pilot on duty from time to time has never been given to endeavour of the Steamer to the training attended capacity thei1· ... ii; of is undermanned, is not necessary.

with Sprostons, Oaptains.

Engineer a Maintenance Mechanical Engineer �fr.

JACOB: The point has been made that we need a roan with technical know­ ledge.
\Ve have a General Manager ,it Engiueer at £500, £1,000, ,t Chief Mechanical at £850, an Assistant Second Assistant Engineer at £500, a Harbour Master at £600, and now we waut ,L Training To rny wind this Depat·tment oven,talfed Dep,Lrtment further ereating sum payments, commitments.

men.

The with technical yet we are is losing money posts that will carry lump pension rights and other We have heard that·there Officer and Pilot at £-!00.

is already at £600, ,t .u·e not in a position ship in England.
to their is aiming It is well known that during the peri0d of the last 20 or 25 years much remains to be learnt even by the present the 0,Lptains .Many of to impitl't necessary t.he trnining crews, and what the Department !Lt now is to secure the se1·vices of a man on a who has had the benefit of tra.ining training The suggested appointment benefit of that training deep sea experience, the benefit to be gained by the appoint­ ment of such an officer will be transmitted being to the men who are at p1·esent trained.
available There are no pilots to of apprentices undertake be­ the tra.ining ta.ken up cause they are all sufficiently with their own duties.

Pilot Walcott himself could, not claim to be a.ble to per- is of a man who has had tbe a.nd it is hoped that and considerable "357 Commtttee or Snppl?J 15 Nov1rn'BER; 1935.

Cornrnttlee of Siipply 358 Pilot considered to appoint him form these duties.

I am a native of the Colony and I carefully ,Valcott's.
claim, as I ,im sure other mem­ bers of the Board :ilS') possible preference General �Lui ager and everyone had ,inything not overlook W,ilcott not undertake thi� oflicer.

did, a,nd if it were he would have had else.

The who has to do with the matter did his claim, over everybody appreciatefl the dtities himself tlrnt he could to be ,tssigned to has to place the officer is required of State.

In to the first place, that no appointment impossible been made.
It is entirely make it until the :tppointment has been confirmed by the Secretary the second trnin the crews of the vessels he is required be necessiu·,, steamers otlicet·s the case tit all if he merely them in the harbom: This practical training can only be given by a deep sea sailor for him to travel on the i,{ order to train the crews and while on duty.

It would not meet more than to train pilots.

It will who has got a Master's gives lectures certificate.

to lVIr.

JACOB: To ii point of order.


We and I thiuk Pilot ,u·c not discussing particular person.

the a-ppoi11tme11t of ,iny lVIr.

WOOLFORD: I quite recognise lrns been cen­ who the ·,hon.

that, but all this discussion tred around Pilot ,V,deott, Member for Berbice River su<rnested being overlooked.

I quite right in stating view· tlnLt his chLim htLS not been over­ looked.

But apart from Pilot Walcott or anyone else, appointment who is ,ibout the necessity iu place of Pilot Venture to retire.
therefon!

exists for an think I am is ::,o the Dep,irtmeut's The Committee divided on the amend­ ment, and voted :- Ayes-Mess1·s.

Jackson, Seymour, King, Jacob, Crnm Ewing, Humphrys, Pee1· Bacchus, Eleazat and Se,tforci-12.

Dr. Singh, De Aguiar, vV,Llcott, hoes-Messrs. Austin, Wight, Gonsitlves, Laing, Major Craig, Ur.

De Freitas, D'An<lrnde, .\I ulliu, Luckhoo, Professo1· Gmy, Dias, the Attomey-Genernl 6.
Colonial Dash, Major Bain and the Secretary-I McDavid, Woolfol'd, T1-rn CHAIR:VIAN: I want to U1ake one point quite cle,ir.

is of Stiite aud the gift of the Secretary 110 has l.,eeu one el�e, and no appointment This appointment e. :r 111tid the coaching in the Colony, to undertake pilots after his long Mr. 'WALCOTT: No case !ms been made out, as far as I see, for the appoiut­ U1ent of this officer.
Surely the Harbour Master is competent duties of and when he has residence can act for to go on leave the senior pilot him so far iis the outdoo1· duties are con­ cerned and Board could the Transport appoint a responsible officer to perforni his other duties.

an officer of this kind at the present moment.

The Harbour Master in a small port like this has' ample time and ought to have acquired to trniu these men in his spare time.

I do not th ink the appointment apart from the question or anyone else.
I do not think we need i8 necessary of Pilot vViilcott The Committee adjoumed fol' the luncheon recess.

.,.

Tiu: COLONIAL SECRETARY: I to replace expenditure 2 on page 78 (Extra­ move that sub-head and on renewals ordinary to be increased rephuiements $71,000) $81,980 to cover expenditure on a new locomotive is a revote of p,ut of $15,000 provided order -.vas placer!

ture cannot be incurred ,Lnd the iidditioual unexpended $10,980 at the end of the year.

in the 1935 Estilll,ates.


which was The "Alexandra."

balance This the but the whole exrendi­ during the yea1· repL"esents Question put, and agreed to.

THEASUHY.

THE COLONIAL SECRETARY : I beg to move that item lb (Deputy be increased $3,360) Treasurer, When the Deputy Colonial appointed that he should be on a fixed salary of $3,600 instead of to $3,840, $3,360 rising Colonial to $3,600.

Treasurer it is proposed is the necessary knowledge Mr. ELEAZAR: I move that the ques­ tion be now put.
Question put, and agreed to.

THE CHAIRMAN : Before I put the question I want to make quite clear, in ·Pos•r OFFICE.

Mt\.

WOOLFORD : I think this is an 359 Committee of Sitpply 15 Non:MB1rn, 19315.
Comrnittee of Su,ppZy 360 for appa.i·atus asked Gov­ this question, the that expendi­ l"eply, As far back as of IL new switch­ of the telephone Chamber of Commerce 1934, and previously, point to bring to the attention the urgent nece�sity and 1934, dated November, might have re­ dur­ of Government to allow has not given appropriate of Government improvement in New Amstel'dam.
December, Berbice ernment to consider Government's was to the effect that it was not possible to include in the 1935 Estimate ture for the purchase board but that the matter would receive the considerat�on of Government dur­ ing 1935.

It is quite apparent although the question ceived consideration ing 1935-and I am prepared that it has-Government consideration stituency.

One· is the installation board at a cost of $10,000, the replacement board at a cost of $3,000.
But the onlv way in which improvement is by the installation position is switchboard.

from the service this.

The total revenue in the way of local renters amounts to $4,000 per annum.

Whether or not ser­ and vices rnndered Hospital cl in that revenue institutions are includ, I to say but am not in a position thern are services as the commercial services, and it must he taken into account in the system will also extend to Govern­ ment Departments.

to the desire of my con­ .


of a new switch­ and the other swit,ch­ of the existing of a new and modern The business can be effected to the Police, There are two alternatives that auy improvement which are as indispensable is a 1·epresentative to a sum of money to has been directed but for some reason or other Chamber of Commerce body.

I happen to know that the atten­ tion of Government the matter, I doubt very much whether they have had the benefit of these figures.
I therefore if possibl ask Government, e, before the close of this session or early next year, to introduce provide this great public requirement.

I need hardly add that rny constituents would greatly appreciate other item which must be taken into account.

The incr·eased i8 charges involved at that $360 per annum, one operator that the l realise salary being sufficient.

expenditure of the Secretary Excellency sentations.
has to obtain the s,mction of State, and I ask Your to make the necessary in this expenditure maintenauce it.

There is one repre­ cousiclerntion.

As 'l'HE CHAIRMAN: The matter will I cannot at the moment.

T to get the switchboa1·d the proposal h,we my sympathetic the hon.

Member has stated, s.ccept shall endeavour another means, but if that does not prove successful recommend out of be prnvided the switchboard revenue next year.
than that at the present I shall try to see my way to to the Secretary I cannot say more that of St,Lte time.

by l\ir.

Vv ALCO'l"l': Mayr ask, sir, whether you are goiug to give some consideration to the telephone district?

in the East Coast service is that if you In addition the position your revenue.

but you have no spnce for you conditions ThiLt does or an econo­ to that $4,000 revenue to be re­ swit.chboard you will A number of aimed at, place the existing not extend the service.
people would _be glad to avail themselves of the set·vice, them and under existing cannot increase not seem to be businesslike mic position.

some $6,000 is derived and tion on the trunk lines of Demerara the County of Berbice.

of the expenditure of that any reduction I cannot con­ $10,000 is unnecessary.

can reasonably ceive how Government an apparntus refuse the people of Berbice of that kind, which also has the promise ultimately of a similar The Berbice sum b� way of rnvenue.
to revenue from communica­ of the collection I am ,issuming In addition he bec,tuse so thorough.

Depai-tment Mr. ELEAZAR: I did not 1·ise to acid to the remark8 of the hon.

anything Member for New Amsterdam does thiugci Post,tl it is not possible communication told that the Colony has no mouey.

If in getting my hou.

friend succeeds the new switchbo,Lrcl it might be canied to No.

63. to No.
63. to No.

63 Village and were installed \Ve asked the some time itgo whethe1· to extend telephonic that Tm, CHAiltMAN: I am ,tfraid any further undertake in the in thi� com1ection future.

I am sorry.

The point the received con­ Government cannot commitments 11ea1· has ra.ised Hon.

Mr. \Valcott sideration ,Luci I am sorry that it cannot be met in the immediate futurP.

recently, 361 CommiUell or S•�pply 15 N <1V1•:MBER, 193f>.

Committe1 of Supply 362 PUBI.IC WORKS-EXTRAORDINARY.
to be undertaken m.use it is dangel'OUS.

iis soon as ,possible he­ be reduced : I beg THE COLONIAL SECRETARY to move that item 6 (Erection of 11 new X-Ray Depal'tment) from $15,000 to $7,030.

When the amount of !l\15,000 was put in the Esti­ to erect a nl'w build­ mate it was proposed ing to house the X-R:iy.

I <lo not think any Member h,ts m1y doubt as to the nl'ces­ sity for the new X-Ray, but it is a question of how it is to be housed.
It is proposed new building of an entirely that instead the middle floor of the Ladv 'l'homson , \¥ ard should be used, and the estimate of which t,he figure cost of converting $4,500 is for the building that was given to the Select Committee.

The additional respect ments, etc.

that is $7,030, itself, of the electrical amount, $2,530, is in wiring, repl,u:e­ d Q4estioµ put, and agreed to.

Mr. DE ,AGUIAR: For the construc­ for the C.I,D.


is provided, Police Station a sum of and it is stated in the to tion of offices and quarters at Brickclam $17,000 minute "It is proposed explanatory spread the reconditioning over a period of two or mol'e years."

Vve mighL be told what it is proposed years.


aud subsequent to spend in the second of Public of Govern­ the whole of the within the compound in Brick­ correct when will be in the Mitjor CRAIG (Director Works): It is the intention ment to reconstruct buildings dt1tn, and I thi�k I am fairly I state that the expenditure neighbourhood of The buildings reconditioning, is $17,000 ters fot· the C.I.D.

of quar­ for the construction are very much in need of and the fhst expenditure $60,000 altogether·.
TBE CHAIRMAN: The hon.

Member that the expenditure will appt'ecia,te h1rge one and more than we can afford in one year.

At the same time the buildings in Pulice headquarters in the t,,wn, most important ai-e some of the i§ a l\'Ir.

JACOB: The sum of $7,030 appears the how the to be spent because went into this matter to be a correct estimate.

However, Select Committee and we were not :tble to gather anything definite as to how this amount is to be of Public vVorks in­ spent.
The Director fol'med us that he was not certain money was supposed he had certain plans which were incom­ plete.

We look upon this expenditure far too large to incu,· It was suggested bottom floor of the Hospital building could be used.

We think from the information gone into, and it is lwped not thoroughly that when the amount is to be spent half of this sum will not be spent at all.

given us that the matter was upon such a project.


at one t.ime tlrnt the as s Mr. SEAFORD : I understood the Colo­ to say that $2,500 is to be nial Secretary spent on apparatus.

under the item for rephtcement and obselete apparatus.

I thought that came of defective Dr. DE FREITAS (Surgeor r General): are itbsolutely 'l'he sum of $2,530 is for the of the middle fl.at of the Lady The two items mentioned necessary.

conversion Thomson Ward into the X-Ray room.


The other item is me-rely fot· replacing defective 11t present used supposed to be dangerous is a good deal of leakage to the X-Ray It does not matter where the apparatu8.

X-Ray l'Oom is placed, has to be replaced but the apparatus and the replacement and as there apparatus inasmuch has Mr. SEYMOUR: The people in the about 4,000, suffer from the Pomeroon, of it shelter abse11ce ing very heavily, erected ttction there would give them some pro­ from the elements.
when the rain is fall­ and I thiuk a small shed Tm: COLONIAL SECRETARY: I beg house J:ias of a new item, i.e., of a new house for \Var.

to move the insertion "29.

Erection deu, Garraway Stream, $.:{,500."

The present of disrepair tion was given to the question tioning ble and the erection have to be undertaken.

of recondi­ i't, but it was found quite impossi­ been in a very bad state of a new house will for some time.

Considera Question put,, and 11greed to.


THBCOLONIALSECRETARY:I�g to move the insel'tion Works, $3,000."

"Unspecified tion of this item-w1ll make it possible during the year to undertake as item 30 of The inser­ works of a 363 Coinmittae of Supply 15 Nov1rnmm, 1935.

Committee of ,Supply 364 such as the hon.

Membe1· fot· minor nature which may be found to be necessary, Western Essequebo An item such as that will receive sideration if it is considered expenditure is justified.
during the year that the and will be met from this vote has just mentione<l.

full con­ road at the rear of the butts Range.

It might be called the Sea Wall.

The site .I refe1· immediately watch-hou se.

of the Rifle an apron to - to is to the west of the gate of the Mr. JACOB: I crave your indulgence, sir, to ask you to be good enough to con­ sider puttiug up a shed at Morawhmma.

THE CHAIRMAN: All applications of that nature must be addre$sed of Public Works.

Director to the .
Director to the .

Question put, and agreed to.

ROADS AND BRIDGE:l-EX'l.

'RAOHDINARY, Mr, ELEAZAR: I want to congratulate to recondition on the decision Government the De Hoop road at Mahaica, rain falls the w:iter from the back-lands accumulate a kind of barrier.

the road had to be cut to get the water out.

at the public road which forms the flood was on ·wher.

When the Major CRAIG: .At the time referred to ove1· the !

'Clad and the water was flowing we had to cut the rnad to effect, drainage.
There.

are several along that road.

to be placed culverts Mr. HUMPHRYS_: I wish to take this at present Mahaicony, of both the De y of Public \-\7or\;s to expedite to thank and congra,tulate opportunity in respect Governmei'it Hoop rnad and the road between Felicit and to a,sk and vVash Clothes, the Director the work as much as possible.

impossible that will continue structed.

is also losing revenue in consequence.


Can the Director where the culverts There is gre,Lt I regret that Government more money for them.

It is to get padi out and until the road is 1·econ­ need for these ce.lverts cannot vote of Public Works state are to be placed?

The Transport Department and Mr. SEAFORD : It has been suggested that the road should be widened there should he one-way is for too narrow for two-way traffic.

I understand discussion up for that there is something now with the Town Council.
or that trnffi<'.

The road � COLONIAL DEVELOP�rnNT FUND SCHEMES, of Land� Mr. MULLIN (Commissioner to item 1 (2), .ted of $7,252 is the anticipa Sur-•· of the loan for the Geological has been less expenditure by about $5,000 this and Mines): With respect the estimate balance vey.

The actual than was anticipated year.

I ask that the vote be carried at $12,563, year.

Thei·e should also be another of $21,600, grant in terms of the Sessional which is the amount of the new Paper.
the amount available for next item out Mr. SEAFORD : Do I understand of the first item is to bring the increase tl�e total up to $7,000 of the loan?

that THE CHAIRMAN : This sub-head is and should be The will be not very well expressed separated Geological $12,563 expenditure ing a total of $34, 163. as soon as possible.
Survey loan expenditure l Survey grant $21,600, and the Geologica will be another mak­ Mr. McDAVID (Colonial Treasurer): The point is that the figure $32,140 shown on the revised should be $12,563.

ble to get through with the work and the balance then·fore should be increased It has uot been possi­ available by $2,000.

estimate for 1936 '"' for 1935 Question put, and agreed to.

Major CRAIG: The position verts ha� not yet been decided.

be placed where they aJ'e most required, but I would be pleased hon.
Memhe1· to discuss place.

of the cul­ They will any particular with the Mi:.

\VOOLFORD : I should like to call attention mising or doing something to the nece�sity to the strip of for macada­ EDUCATION, Sub-head BAlN GH.A Y (Director of 1 (6)-1 Class I. the salary of Mr. Frnser, Sec(·etary l\fajo1· Education): Clerk, $2,5:W-is who was formerly bou1· Board.

·when the Harbour Bo:m] was amalgamated port Department abolished.
which 1v.l r. Fra�er could be trnnsfe, rncl in was the p_osition Tmns - with the Colonial the Harbour Board was At that time the only post to of the Har­ of a First Class Clerk s65 )l:(<1,tiq= 15- NovEMlJ,1-:IJ., 1935.

+ � • .• • -Ex Gratia Awardd366 THAT, with reference to Message No.

7 dated 25th October, ·1935, this Council of $100.50 ea: gratia, payment wiqow o,f tbe late P.C.

�0.52 Gravesande died on the �fth of December, Alb�rttown being made to the who 19:S4, at the Police Station.
approves au have Hon.

Members will probably tragic death of He left a widow heard of the somewhat this Police Constable.

and three small children.

was not quite sufficient be qualified Government is invited of an ex gratia pay­ ment to the widow of $100.50, represents three months' husband.

to be paid an amount under Regulations, which of her late for his widow to to approve salary and this Council His service Major BAIN GRAY seconded.

figure.

Goverumei:it to of his salary .�f hi�.


q,yn post: a,_nd lie was', transfened in the case of frolll one post should be left who are transferred that 'his salary of that, from his point of view, �rnm £5�0 to the Treasury, th.at pc;:,st .on the agolitiou 'l'be r�sult is a reduction �47p per annum.
Not uµnatm:ally, he has f that that made representations reduction with H1e 'practice, is not in accordance which is almost universal officers to another, has at the previous and the agreeu t.o his representations Secretary of State is also p1 epared to �:p:prove of the�.
To give effect to it it should be 1s · proposed shqwii'" as $2,280, sala,ry of a First Class Clerk, and until he can be re-employed as a Chief Clerk he equal allowance Sf!pull'receive a personal him to the difference, $540, thus bringing back to the salary which he received '· as Board.

That of the Harbou1· Secretary involves a of the salary from $2,520 to $2,280 and the insertion pew item" (11) Personal W.0.

Fraser, Class J.

Clerk, ip.ove that these amendments of a to Mr. Allowance $504."
I which is the correct ,that his s11lary reduction be made.

Mr. ELEAZAR : One must be thankful a returned due to injuries This man was in addi­ I am not sure that his tragic he received at any rate his health to some and has occurred to do some­ fot· small mercies.

.

tion to being a policeman soldier.

death was not in the vVar.

His wav service seemed to have injured extent.

The tragedy Govemment is now seeking thing for his widow and orphans.
Either a year or six months is the period that The would have entitled him to a pension.

years law was changed only two or t,hree ago from 15 to 20 years.

I think when this man joined the Force he looked for.

ward to a pension but ,Lt any rnte he was only short of that perio<l Government to see it:, way to grant his <lepe11de11ts by some mouths.

I >Lill askin_g after 15 years' service, a little more.

Question put, and agreed to.

.

'fhe Council resumed.


ToNNAGE AND LIGHT DUES • THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I beg .to move:- 1'HAT, with re'ereoce to Message 19:15, this Council No.

5 of t�e of 11th of October, appro\'es a bUrtax of fifteeu per centum being levied on the amount of Tonnage Dues which shall be collected under section eig Harbours 1931.

Ordioance, the year 1936, and Ligllt dnrioi hteen of the Transport and 1 This motion, sir, is explained in Mes.

finances sage No.

5, which hon.

Members have before them.


These dues have been im­ posed now for two years and the state of Government their being withdrawn.

has been.collected and the estimate more tha11 that because months collections $10,000.

for 1934 was $12,524 for 1935 will be slightly for.

the first eight does not perlllit The amount which amounted to nenrly of Major BAIN GRAY seconded.

Question .

, __ ,_. put, and agreed to.

E,:x GRATL� Aw�R:QS, THE COLONIAL SECRE'l'ARY: I beg t9 !pOYe : -,.
Mr. HUMPHRYS : I desire to associ­ ate myself with the appeal made by the hou.

Member.

Within a very sho1·t time to a the otlicer would have been entitled and lump sum, and it would be an pension act of grace very much appreciated if can see its way to increase Government the amount.

Mr. Mc DA VTD : The hon.

Member for relating Ordinance River has quoted the wrong Ordi­ Berbice nance-the to Public Officers and not the Constabularv Ordi­ p.ance.

Under the Ordinance is· entitled has served 24 years.
That is not the case in relation t·herefore i;JU.m by right, officer, and to a lump to this particular he was not entitled after her husband to a gratuity the· widow 367 Motie,ns 15 Novn!Bl!R, 1935.

- Sea Defence .Adrn'nce 368 Mr.

Di.

; AGUIAR: I also join in the appeal.

I was endeavouring to find out what the officer was entitled to.
His ser­ vice is short of only five months to com­ plete 20 years, and if he had lived for 20 years he would have been entitled to two years' case and Government generosity salary.

It seems to be a very hard might extend its further.

a little and the fact of the Scholarship his course success­ balance that he has completed fullv.

It is felt that the forfeit should be restored less the sum advanced by the Secretary of State, to enable him to return to the Colony.
to him to the extent of £100, Tm: PRESIDENT : If hon.

Members feel that this amount should be increased the best course would be for those who feel that way to address Government either by motion in this House or by letter.

For the moment I am unable to add to this sum, as hon.

Members will realise, as this is the amount which has been approved by the Secretary ex gratia payment.

I do not wish to adopt the alternative porarily given to her by this motion.

If hon.
If hon.

Mem­ bers wish to address Government on the subject I suggest that they pass this motion now and do so by letter.

course which would tem­ the widow of the amount of State a& an further deprive Question put, and agreed to.

Major BAIN GRAY : I beg to move:­ THAT with reference to Message �o.

2 of the appi-oves, 1935, l his Council case; an ex gratia award of £100 to 14th of September, as a. special Dr. P. G. Barrow, British towards the cost of University conne.

:ition sum of £46.

J3s 6d.


advanced the cost of his passage to British certain with hi� studies of t,he fees referred to.

Guiana Scholar, and other fees in in medicine, less the 1925, to him to meet lluiana and Mr. McDA VID seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Mr. MULLIN: I beg to move:­ THAT.

with reference Council approves 1935, tbis to Message No.

3 of of a" ard of $768 to 'tative of the estate 24th September, the payment of an ex gratia.
the legal personal of the late Mr. A. J. Cheong, Deputy Commis­ sioner of the British rnction Guiana.Brazil Boundary on the 4th October, Rnpnnuni Commission, 1934, at.

Kassikaityu, of the British District, represeu who died and had done four-and-a-half The circumstances under which Mr. work on the boundary, for duty Guiana-Brnzil Boundary Cheong died are well known to everyone in the Colony.
He was seconded with the British Commission years' continuo_us when he contracted Beri Beri through mal­ nutrition by the use of preserved food and He had died on his way to Georgetown.

2 'i ½ years' service, his work was of an exceptionally high character, and he was a most zealous officer and never spared him­ self in the pursuit a tremendous railway, The amount to be voted is the difference of what his lump sum would have been if he had served the maximum pensionable period of 30 years when he died.
of his duties.

amount of pioneer road and other survey work.

He did work of The facts of this case are set out in tl1e which was circulated to Members to study time, but he Question A condition put, and agreed to.

was forfeited.

of the Scholarship Mr. D'ANDRADE seconded.

was opened.

Mr. Guiana Scholar for Message when this session Barrow was British 1925 and he went to Edinburgh medicine.
was that he should pass his professional examination by a particular did not do so and the balance of the Scholarship however went on with his studies the directions father, gained his' degree quite satisfactorily according Medicine.

completed the Sec:retary £46 13s.

6d.

to enable him to pay the fees incurred and return to the Colony.

Gov­ ernment has taken into consideration the circumstances under which he lost the to Message No.
l of 9th Seµtember, of the and he eventui,lly succeeded writing off of the sum of $:l,000 being the amount advanced by Government funds to the Sea Defence Board to defray the cost of construction works of a permanent acter and of provision mates to cover a further to the Board against in respect ceased as from 31st December, defence to the reports of the Dean of About the same time as he his course his father died and of State advanced him Major CRAIG : I beg to move:- 'l'HAT with reference Mr. Barrow under of his and and instructions The Message explains 1935, the Council approves of Sea Defence District SEA DEFENCE ADVANCE.
unpaid sea.

defence rates No.

2, whicb 1934, to be a sea char.

being made in the esti­ the reasons for district.

from Joan advance of $1,577.61 369 Motion 15 Novi;;�rnER, 1935.

-Ex Gratia Awards370 there.


out of the this district and writing off the money on the works executed eliminating Schedule expended I may state that the flood of 1934 caused a considerable of this particular sea defences themselves the proprietors amount of work on the road, particularly with regard to sluices the Sea Defence Board buL are maintained proprietors.
by the village amount of damage to the and distt-ict, did a certain which are not under and a portion of the was not recoverable this excep­ action should l:e taken, but it will defence district arrears tional not serve as a precedent any district that remains district.

with regard to a sea defence places which are supposed Mr. SEYMOUR: You will find that in to be in the sea goes in and certain a sea defence out forever, have other aJ, plications district 1111d I am afraid that you will of this nature.
to wipe off the expenditure There are no districts tha,t on permanent works and mainten­ Mr. SEAFORD: I did not realise this motion was going to be taken to-day.

I do not know where it is going to lead us to.

Money has been spent in this dis�rict ance charges have not been paid.

It is now proposed and the unpaid rates.

If ,re do that in this case I am sure that Government is going to have cases of a similar kind from other districts.
which have paid the full ao:iount and very few which have paid anything There can be only one justification, us I can see, for Government coucession, or properties defence district 'L'hey are inside the mouth of the Esse­ qucbo River and theirs are 1·eally and not sea defences.

accept that view I am prepared to the motion, the concession ground that the proprietors cannot agree in everv district Government write off liabilities.
to agree but if it is maintained that is being grnnted on the a11d that is that these estates are not really in a sea cannot pay I it means that will have to at all.

as far to it, because grnnting this river If Government differently I am of opinion sections of the Colony with Mr. WIGHT: Arising out of this ques­ a point and ask to consider it.

tion I would like to 1·aise the Attorney-General Government has been dealing with different regard to sea defences.
that after three vears a debt for sea defences is presc.ribed recovered.

said of Essequebo days ago informing running sea defence I like to speculate defence, not proceed over a place on which I am paying rates.

l am not a lawyer hut on evading sea that they can­ me for the rates.

a few me that the 8ea is "\Vith regard to what, has beeu and I am claiming I received and cannot be against a letter a little I think the hon.
Mem­ rates and interest Hector Josephs): ber will find in the Sea Defence 01·dinanee that sea defence are a debt due to the Colonv and that the Director lien over the land in respect of which the rates ought to be paid fo1· the debt due to the Colony.

of Public Works has a preferent thereon THE PRESIDENT: Tn view of the but in a river district.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Mr. Mr. ELEAZAR: When Government to abandon Essequebo there is no intends reason why the people there should be made to pay, Government advised that these people should be in relieved.

The flood which occurred and 1934 was this country, a ct�h11nity to of expenditure any remission incuned in relieving any part of the community is well remitted.

is correctly by the hon .


.Member on this motion liy Mem­ comments made bers, and particularly who itl a member of the Sea Defence Boa.rd and a :Member of the Executive I propose to defer deci�ion and to pass on to the next if the Couneil will allow me.

Government will bring for­ con­ ward the motion again after fu1·tl1er sideration or abandon it.

of it in Executive on this motion Council, Council Ex GnA'l'IA AWARD.

:M.r.

SEAFORD : I do not think the in hon.


Member realise that certain districts Government those who have p11id will ask for a refund.

prnprietors have already paid.

lf October, to Burton Kodney, a labourer as a result excavation 20�h May, 1933, of an ex gratia award of $302.40 less the sum of $250, being full pay issued during detention who was injured of an accident which during occurred Roatl.

on work on the Ilartica-Potaro THE PRESIDENT: It was considered to Message No.
4 of 2nd approves is going to relieve that as this district has ceased to be a sea 1935, thi8 Council in hospital.

the grant others Major CRAIG : I beg to move:­ THAT, with reference 371 Expiring Laws Con.

Bill l5 Nov11111'.BE1t, 193"5.

Evidence (Amenclmen't) Bill 372 'l'he Message gives more or lei,s the The Council resolved mittee and considered clause wit,hout discussion.

itself into Com­ the Bill clause bv • The Council i·esurued.
Notice was given that at the next meet ing of the Council the Bill be read the third time and pas,;ed.

Secretary , ( The Colonial it would be moved that While working of the accident.

injured and now, according details with another person stone above thew, which had been crncked by a previous but could not be dislodged, explosion suddenly started to move owing to min and in running down the hill some of the stone fell on them.
Rodney was very seriously the medical report, has been reduced dent happened in hospital now able to walk about and take a watch­ man's job, and he has been so employed on one or two jobs at the Public Works This sum is to cover the Department.

difference between what he has received and what he would be entitled vVorkmen's Compensation Act.

by one-third.

The acci­ in May, 1933, and he was time.

He is for a considernble his earning capacity to under the to Dr. DB FREITAS seconded.
Mr. ELEAZAR : It seems to me that if injured that his two -thirds, of his life, was so seriously Lhis man earning capacity is now only aud would be so for the balance it is ha.rd for Go,·ernment only $52.40 because he has been paid while in hospital.

whethei· the whole amount.

could not give him I w,�s wondering Government to give him '1'1-rn COLONIAL SECRETARY: In at the figure to be paid to this arriving mau consideration men's Compensatiun figure;; out in that Ordinance.
was giveu to the v\' ork­ Ordinance, were worked out ou the ba,;is ;;et and the BOERASIRIE CRKBK BILL.

hy Creek Ot·di­ in reRpect in which are set and the acreages a Schedule plantations THE COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that " A Bill to amend the Boera­ Chapter 135, ,by sirie Creek Ordinance, the Governor in Council ewpoweriug and vary the order to combine plantations acreage of any plantatio ns" be read the second time.
The Boerasirie nance contains out the various thereof of which the Commis­ sioners could assess the rates.

Several of these pla11tations and tl1f' boundaries been altered, applied for an Order-in-Council to assess on acreages the Schedule.

Order was uot possible Ordinance the Council that Schedule the Schedule tions and conditions as they may alter from time to time.
from those showu in It was found that such an is to enable the alterations to be made iu order to b1·ing and the Bill which is now before into line with existing under the existing of them have diffe1·en_t have changed hand;; condi­ in and the Commissioners Question put, and agreed to.

EXPIRING LAWS CON'l'INUANCB BILL.

certain to continue laws" be read the second time.


in force 'l'frn COLONIAL SECRETARY: I move that "A Bill to continue expiring This Bill proposes for a period of 12 months two Ordinances Excise Duty -the Sugat· (Temporary) 1932, and the Bill of Entry Ordinance, have beeu 1932-which Tu.x Ordinance, contiuued from year to year siuce that time aud will expire at the end of this year.

Major BAIN GRAY seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the second time.


The Council resolved mittee and considered clause without discussion.

itself iuto Com­ the Bill clause bv The Council resumed.

Notice w,is ,,iven that ,Lt a subsequent meeting of the Council th,Lt the Bill be read the third time and 8, cretliry).

·passed.

(The Uoloniltl it would be moved .M:r. Mc DAVID seconded.

BILL.

EVIDENCE (AMll,NDMENT) Question t, aud agreed to .

pu 1 Bill read the second time.


Tai,; ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that " A Bill to Ii.mend the Evidence Ordi na.nce, Chapter 25, with respect to the 373 Evidence (AmencZ11wnt ) Bill· 15 Nov1r,ll'i:'.Bl'-ti, 193"5.

-Com1)tittee 37 4 was brought an instance practitioner he had received.

to my notice gave a certifi­ Mr. HUMPHRYS: I ,"7ould like to a fact of point out to the Attorney-General which he may not be aware.
Quite re­ cently where a medical cate to a person who was complaining The cet·tificat injuries was given 10 or 14 days after the person had been examined.

tention must be written I men­ day following tion that case because I would like it to be known that practitioners ful over of section 44.

The certificate on.

the same day or the the examination.

of ce!'t,ificates.

That is not the in­ must be care­ of e t that a great l'Bport Cout·ts the giving of a medical ·or analysis (3) of section contained.
Analyst upon any to be a report charge of injury to Sub-section was the subject has occasioned report in the Magis� " be read the second tim·e.
only whe1·e the ·prosecutor shall be prima facie evidence to him for for and report, Sub-section purporting of the There are a good many cases in of that kind (2) gives powe1· to call the (3) in the case of any 'document pur­ to be a report by a duly qualified on any injuries oi• complainan reception t,·ate's The object of the Bill is to amend sub­ 44: of the Evidence section Ordinance.
( 1) provides any document of the Government inatter or thing submitted examination the purpose of any enquiry or pi-o­ ceeding, of any matter or thing therein Sub-section Analyst as a witness.

applies porting medical practitioner received by a prosecutor in any case involving a the person.

'l'bat deal of inconvenience.

.Me<lical practi­ tioners or eomplainant injury.

which prosecutions arn undertaken for one and the parents another.
that so as to permit of a report being admissible subject or by the .Police.

his parent or guardian of the law aud it is It is an enlargement is with reference useful.

to a preliminary inquiry and the reason why these reports at n pre­ are not admissible liminary inquiry to be a faithful the deponents and one of the purposes be used is in the event of his absence through death or illness left the Colony, tions can be read as part of· the evidence.
·The mere report of the doctor would be uselt;iss consequently leave the Colony, rcabon why the pvelimina1·y from the application excepted by other people, the or guardians Clause (2) of the Bill modifies is that they are intended record of the evidence as early as it can be obtained, or his having in which case his deposi­ cases which are the by the person or that is the inquiry is of the Bill.
at a trial if the doctor happens to of a prosecution The exception Police for for which it may or matters in similar of THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL : That is The certi­ the fault of the practitioner.

ficate should be written, as the hon.

Member has stated, the day after the examination.

vent the possibility if the Bill becomes law, I shall draw the attention to the fact.
on the same day or To pi:'e• of the Surgeon-General of such an occurrence, ·two or three days Mr. ELEAZAR: If a person does not the injury and the doctor gives the the same day or the next day it go to the doctor until aftet· certificate does not affect the question.

should see the doctor the same da.y or the day aft�r the injury, can be given a month after if the person can pay for it.
The person but the certificate I am to enact to compel a man to be within 24 hours ; that THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL: afraid that the hon.

Member has not read the clause we are endeavouring into law as if he had read it he would not have made the mistake he has made.

There is nothing taken to a doc-tor would preclude from being of any use.

The object is to facilitate difficult, hon.

Member's point is that the doctor's be written the examination.

rule of law.
rule of law.

proof and not to make it more as would be the result of the suggestion.

sh(!uld cm·tificate on the <lay of or the day after e the doctot·'s That follows certificat the general The important :Mr. DIAS seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the second time.

The Council resumed.

Notice was given that at the next meet­ The Council resolved itself the Bill clause by into Com­ mittee to conside�· clause.

ing of the Council the Bill he read the thi:rd tiime and passed.

{'l.
{'l.

'he Attorney-General).

it would be moved that ·· 375 Plant Diseases & Pests Bill 15 NovEMUR, 1935.

-Committee 376 measure, and stated indicated to the deputa­ with the explana­ and the position it again.

Members of the would it be made an but if it were likely to measure the Members would have an opportunity very carefully of coconut growers and others made quite clear.
• Your Excellency tion how the Bill would operate that on no account oppressive prove an oppressive of the Council of reviewing deputation were satisfied tion given and as the result we have be­ fore us to-day the Bill.

of which I have moved the second I do not pro.

reading.

pose to go ove1· old ground.

Hon.

Mem­ bers, if they have Hansard of September, 1 34, will be able to follow the points I have just touched on.
When the Bill is in the Committee have an opportunity which is not still quite clear, on the whole that the matter has been so well threshed left to criticise stage hon.

Members will to raise any point but I think out that there is very little now.

Mr. DIAS seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the second time.

PLANT DI�EAB�S AND PESTS BILL.


Professor DASH (Director of Agri­ certain careful clauses of the p1·e­ for their of diseases in connection and pests affecting during the last session of the point which had and eradication of plants " be During the debate one or of to create h11.rdship with the notifica­ I beg to move that "A Bill the importation and ex­ of plants and to make provi­ culture): to regulate portation sion for the prevention diseases read the second time.
I do not propose to detain the Council at any length in regard to this Bill, which hon.

Members will remember had reached the second reading vious Council.

two Members criticised the Bill as being likely on farmers or pests tion or detection which might be notifiable.

The sugges­ tion was then made that the Bill might be to the newly formed Board of referred scrutiny Agriculture in been l'aised.
respect That was duly done, sir, and at a meetiug of the Board held some time after the whole Bill and fully dis - its objects were cussed.

One or two coconut growers were at that meeting and stated the case present for the Bill.

After very careful of the whole position culture, found that the Bill was absolutely essen­ tial and fair in every respect, to the irood farmer ; and it is the type of legislation in common use in most of the Dominions of this sort is in operation.
The Board that the Bill therefore recommended should be p1·oceeded cause the Department no power to control and diseases That is to say pests 01· diseases liable side1·able with, especially of Agriculture character.

which are to do con­ to rapid spread and liable of a devastatiug with the exception the Board of Agri­ damage to crops.

of one member, and Colonies discussion an outbreak be­ has of pests The Council resolved itself into Com­ particularly mittee to consider clause.
the Bill clause by where legislation Clause 8 (2)-Presumptioii that occupier, etc., charged with offence aware of disease.

Mr. WALCOTT : Who would be re­ for reporting in Kitty Village sponsible -the occupier Council or the Village of the lot, the Village ?

Chai!

'man Professor DASH: 1n a case of that The hon.

Fortunately, in this Colony we have not any large number of these pests which are dealt with in the Bill as a notifiable dis­ ease.
There is much the same provision in the Public Health Ordinance.
Member for "\Vestern was a mem­ ber of the Board of Agriculture strong objection I have referred resting ence of notifiable wards a deputation the matter waited on Your Excellency and the whole question to with respect to the onus on the farmer to report the pres­ pests, and soon after-­ of those interested to one or two clauses out was threshed Berbice who took in sort there are a large number of tenants in the community and the onus will be on them to suspect the existence of the disease.
with Kitty we, a� In connection of fact, took action almost the a matte1· first time the pest was observed, and we and made a house to house can­ went back vass and advised what to do, the tenants but they would not take any action.

Not by the long ago the matter was reported Commis­ Village sioner and I took the opportunity then to whole circnmstances relate the of what occurred at Kitty.
We have no powers to compel people to clean their lots when diseases and I hope that with the passing of this kind break out, of this Bill we shall Council to the District 377 Plant Di8eases &: Pests Bill 15 Nov¥MBER, 1935.

- Committee378 of things.

Professor DASH : It sometimes happen no longer see that condition Clause 8 (1) says that the owner or occu­ pier of land is to give notice.

.

Clause 10-Owner of land liable for expense:;; incurred.

Mr. SEYMOUR: Clause 10 is the with this Bill.


on my property how source of the whole trouble If I have a disease can I do what is required of me?

There must be equity on both sides.

The owner caunot possibly proposed be some means of assisting have more than a few coconut their yards .

There should those who carry out the law as it is in this measure.
trees around have to spend a considerable of a pest In such cases in some Colony and which come down almost that there is a sudden outbreak like locusts, invisibly overnight eat up the cultivation.

Government sum of money and loss is incurred by Joans or otherwise.

we have a caterpillar and all the farmer has to do is to keep a careful notify the Department and stiirt to clean up that small attack and nip it in the bud.
If he waits until the pest extends either In this Colony which is well known, outlook for signs of the pest, he ca1mot hope to control of Agriculture it .

.Mr.

JACOB: Up to the present moment cannot tell Mr. JACOB: J endorse what th£?

hon.

point arises.

.Another incurred, and for the first offence Member has stated.

The owner of the land is liable for the expenses he is liable to a fine not exceeding $100 and for a second offence $240.
I do not think it is the intention to dr·ive their cultjvation, beyond their control.

should be amended.

of Government people out of existence or to abandon especially l think this ,clause when peRts are to prevent Department what is the coconut pest and it is it.
When a cockle in the North West the Agricultural farmers impossible made its appearance District to control acres of coconuts their cultivation, them to do so and carry the produce to market, and it must be borne in mind that some people neglect some time ago it was very difficult it.

I know people with 100 to it does not pay who pay no attention because their cultivation.

for destroying pests 011 Mr. DE AGUIAR : How would the recover the Director of Agriculture expenses incurred land of very little hon.
Member for North Western Distt1ict has pointed to take away land from peoj:1le who are not able to pay.

\Ve should make provision to cover the case of a man who owns a small piece of land and is upable to pay.

out, it is not the intention or no value?

As the Mr. SEYMOUR: I agree with the principle of the Bill.

Professor DASH : I think hon.

Members have missed the point.

I do not visualise in this Colony more than one pest that would be made notifiable of one disease.
The Council rose by effluxion of time and adjourned ber, at 11 o'clock.

until Tuesday, 19th Novem.