Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698077425079.pdf (Guyana)
2517 Members Present LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Time-limit For Speakers 2518 JJEGTSLATIVE COUNCIL.

The Hon.

C. R. Jacob, (North Western District) The Hon.

J. W. Jackson, O.B.E., (Nominated). '

I IVeanesday, 27th February, 1946.

The Hon.

A. M. Edun, (Nomi­ nated).

The Hon.

V. Roth, (Nominat�d) The Council met at 2 p.m., His the Governor, Excellency James Lethem, K.C.M.G., President, in the Chai,r.

Sir Gonlcn nated) The Hon.

T. T. Thompson, (Nomi­ PRESENT: The Clerk read prayers.
The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the 22nd February, were 1946, as printed taken as read and confirmed.

and circulated, The President, His Excellency Gordon James the Governor, Sir Lethem, K.C.M.G.

PAPERS LAID.

The Hon.

the Colonial Seoretary, Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Mr. W: L. Heape) laid on the table the following document:- The Hon.

the Attorney-Gen�rnl, Nutritional Survey of the Akowoio (acting) Mr. F. W. Holder.
in the villages Indians around Imbaimaidai, River, by Dr. J. Waterlow.

and settlements Upper Mazaruni The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. E. F. Mc David, C.B.E.

The Hon.

C. V. Wight, (Westem UNOFFICIAL NOTICES.

.

Essequibo) TIME-LIMIT FOR SPEAKERS.

The Hon.

H. N. Critchlow (Nomi- .''

j nated).

Mr. CRITCHLOW gave notice motion:- of the following The Hon.

J.

B. Sin-gh, (Demerara-Essequibo).

0.B.E., WHEREAS it is necessary that the Council business be as possible.
dealt with as expeditiously of this Honourable The Hon.

M. B. G. Austin, 0.B.E., Be it RESOLVED that a rea,sonable (Nominated) time limit be fixed for Movers and Seconders all matiers of motions and Speakers before the Council.

on The Hon.

Pe,rcy C. Wight, O.B.E., (Georgetown Central) The Hon.

Peer Bacchus, (Western Eerbice) SALE OF MALT LIQUOR.

NOTICE OF QUESTIONS.

The Hon.


H. C. Humphrys; KC., Mr. ROTH gave notice · of the (Eastern Demerara) following questions:- --· - __; •- � · 2519 Old Age Pensions 27 FEBRUARY, Ul46.

-Increase $ugge�ted 2520 With a view to encourage the con­ of the less potent alcoholic to the less wealthy classes, will see its way to amend the sumrption bever-, ages and to make the same more easily available Government so that.
on payrnent relevant of an annual licence of Fifty Dollars, restaurants and cake-shops Liquor to be consumed on the premises?

Ordinance may sell Malt REPORTS OF FACTORIES BILL AND SPIRIT SHOP HOURS COMMITTEES.

Mr. EDUN gave notice of the following questions:- .. 1.How long is it since the· Factories Bill Committee report to Government'!

had submitted its 2.Will Government state what is its regarding intention lation and how soon is it expected to submit the Bill to the Legisla­ tive Council'?
this draft legis­ 3.How long is it since the Spirit Shop its report to Government?

Hours Committee majority had submitte,l 4.What is the reason for Government's dilatory the recommendations ity report'!

action i.n not carrying of the major­ out ORDER OF THE DAY INCREASE OF OLD AGE PENSIONS.
Mr. CRITCHLOW: ;Before moving in my name on the motion standing the Order Paper I would like to amelld it by inserting cil recommends'' tions, so that the motion will read: in the two resolu­ the words "This Coun­ THAT WHEREAS it is hard for old age pensioners rate of pensions and in other parts cf the 0olony, in view of the high cost of living; to exist on the present paid in Georgetown f BE IT RESOLVED that this Council that Old Age Pensions from $3.60 to $4.80 per month recommends increased in Georgetown per month in other parts of the colony; and from $2.40 to !p.60 ,be AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Council re.commends condition be made effective January, that the fl;om J st 1947, 1 Question put, and agreed to.
Motion amended accordingly.

income is over $,.1.50 small and With regard paid, we are very g,rateful but I would like to point Mr. CRITCHLOW: In moving this motion I would like to appeal to the sympathy of hon.

Mem­ bers of this Council.

to the present rate of Old Age to Pensions Government, out that the amounts are very that if a person's to Old per month he is not entitled Age Pension.
I know that the pension is given for the purpose of helping persons of old age, but some of these people have nothing which is to depend on but the pension given them.

We have worked it out and found that the minimum cost of living to them is as follows: They must live somewhere and have.

to pay at least ninety ( 90) cents per month rent which some kind person may charge them.

That works out at three cents (3c.)

per day.


Then for food it would cost them three cents for break­ fast or the morning meal-wood, cent; sugar, one cent; bread, one cent -another three cents for the mid-day meal - ,rice, one cent; meat,-.

cent; butter, three cents for dinner-milk, one cent; bread, one cent; coffee, one cent.

The total works per day.


As 1 have told you, some only people contend that Gove,rnment intends to maintain But while we are grateful for that help, we would like to point out that in the outer world the neces­ sity is seen to inc,rease allowance the cost of living being so high.

In Old Age Pensioners England, getting more money, to Old Age Pensioners to help the poor people and not one cent-and another out at twelve (12) cents them outright.

if not as yet.

through the rate of will be one .


one this motion to be I would not like turned down entirely.

revenue must be obtained ever is the expenditure, \-eason I ask you, sir, to reconsider I realize· to meet what­ and for that tha:t the 2521 Old Age PenirionsLEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

-Increase Suggested 2522 matter even if later in the year so that it can take effect next year.

If hon.
If hon.

Members believe that the amounts men tioned in the motion are too high, wt ask you to do one of two thing:; - either reduce the amounts if you think they should be reduced, or to allow a fu-rther _ extension on the $4.50 income disqualification and so entitle a good many to Old ·Age Pen-· sion.

We would be very g-rateful if you could do that.

I think the poor· people are really entitled to a little more than is being given them pres·ently.

That is the reason that I bring this motion.


support this small but I do think we may first whether we are not going If the Mover of the motion tunate people who are getting monthly payment.

I heartily the motion, consider too quickly.

would consider less than that mentioned any inside knowledge, Colonial into the matter and grant the conc-es­ sion as from 1st January of this year.

somewhat I think, without that the hon.


the might be able to look an increase Treasurer Mr. JACK SON: I should like to Mr. ROTH: I beg to second this I must admit to the the terrible under which many of these rate to know the parlous of the commun­ people in motion.

As a Poor Law Commissionc1 I am in a position state in which a portion especially iti lives, the elderly indigent circumstances.

that not until I was appointed Poor Law Board I realized conditions pension people Jive.
The present does give a considera.ble amount of but it is yet very little assistance, when is taken into consideration.

everything fo I have rather a radical make, which I have mentioned once before in Council.

In the event that Government is not able to find the money, take the bull by the horns and Lottery.

I do not have a National think one can normally object to -such a thing for that purpose.
I commend the motion very strongly to Members of Council, suggestion had <lone by this pension who are benefited in order to put this -motion and the total amount that will and I am quite sure that every­ that Government support this motion.

I like the prin­ ciple of it.

I am not so sure o.f the figures be required into effect.

I think Government war, complimented at the time when the motion to pay Old Age Pension ,was r,assed, one realised the right thing for the poor people.
it would give your Your Excellency, the heart joy to see with what gladness 1:eople go to the places where payment is madP.

month after month.

As a matter of fact, they are heaping blessin·gs on the for ha.ving head o.f this ,Government so considered small no one will deny, and that a little more will help everyone I do say that we should have been in a oetter position total amount t}iat might he involved the increases.
If that were stated we might have been in a position to see whether the whole amount asked for could be given or a small increase upon the small amount they receive at the present time.

I am aware, sir, of the need th:.

:it exists- them.

That the amount is to give Members the will agree, but in reviewed it was then to be paid Mr. A US TIN: I would like to sup­ port this motion also and to remind Members t!
).at when this matter fil�st came before this Council, said that the amount granted was rather on the small side and it should be at some later.

The time, I think, has now come when we may step up the monthly payments_.

to these poor folks.

In as much as ther(!

seems to be a certain Treasurv will be ·absorbed am of the opinion be done first of all for the people in this Colony and primarily or I in other directions, should that something which has been abso1,bed for the poor unfor· amount in the date.
The PRESIDENT: I can answer per annum.

your question-$115,000 Mr. JACKSON: Thanks, Your If I may be permitted Excellency.

sa:it so, the amount is not as great as I thbught it would have been.

to The PRESIDENT: The original amount was· $180,000.

Mr. JACK.SON: If it is thought the amount is too large, l would be that 2523 Old Age Pensions 27 FEBRUARY, 1946.

-Increase Suggested 2524 we arc are made.

That at $115,000.
That at $115,000.

This proposed No doubt it is necessary Mr. HUMPHRYS: Your Exce.Jlen­ it went to $230,000.

addition is calculated will make the total $345,000.

very· glad if the hon.

the Col- onial Treasurer would work it ou t .

a t a smaller amonnt, perhaps half of that, and I would sup­ to port it.

I would like Your Excellency know that I am in thorough sympathy with the poor people.
I move aibout them ; I know them and I am sometimes present when the payments Yet I have no desire that Government should be committed larger than what Government feels it can pay.

So if $115,000 to be added is thought half of that amount could do, and we would I think the hon.

the Colonial satisfied.

be able to work that out Trea'Surer will and get the amount changed in the motion.

I support the motion, and Your Excellency the conditions under which I do so.

I hope that some relief poor people.


to to our cloth.

from this expendi­ cy can see from that whither drifting.

keep the poor going, but we must cut our coat according will be no returns ture.

It is purely a matter of charity and something but I do not think, subject the hon.

the Colonial this expenditure the State should do, to what Mc David).

It was $230,000 first saw it, but the prov1s1on in 1946 Estimate the is for $262;000.
The COLONIAL TREASURER (Mr. will be granted these too much, possibly will understand to any amount Treasure,r s-ays, There when I be will be justifiable.

Mr. HUMPHRYS: I am entirely in favour of Old Age Pension, think it is more a question on which I would like to hear the hon.

TreaHurer.

the Colonial Your Excellency, was $180,000.

but I of finance the first am<Jtmt As I u11d-erstand, The PRESIDENT: Yes, but it has gone up a great deal more.· .Lt i3 about $230,000.

Mr. HUMPHRYS: Without this addition?


The PRESIDENT: Yes.

Mr. HUMPHRYS: What I am trying to get at is this: With this addition what altogether?

it will amount to Mr. HUMPHRYS: I do not think to the we can go on and on increasing vote.

It is a matter for this.

Government and the hon.

the Colonial Treasurer advise this Council as to whether the Colony can afford to do it.
I would be the last to vote against the amount, if we really can afford it and within reason, but it seems to me that for the short time it has been going gradually have to pay a half million dollars ($500,000) would really like to hear the hon.

comments.

the Colonial up and up and we may soon in Old Age Pensions.

Treasurer's I Mr. EDUN: l am indeed very glad for the figures ,�as going to ask for them.

given, because I The original The PRESIDENT: It will amount amount to $345,000.
estimated was $180,,000, that basis it went to the Secreta-ry State and finally cil.

As a matter of fact, due to mun­ bers insteac;l of rewaining at pso,000 and it was on of came to this Coun­ 1 · .

The then there is an War to that for Temporary The P .H..b;SlD.b;NT: .l:'erhaps may give the exact figu,res.

amount is $269,000, addition Bonus which brings it up by another $2,585.

So it is now $272,000.


original and this proposed addition $115,000, examination, the matter does require having been $180,000 estimate being The 2525 bia Age Pensions Ll�GISLA'i'iv� COUNCIL.

-Increase Suggested 25% to that itself and serious 1 think the ·.vhole Knowing the figures now, 1 do in moving or they may be receiving they do not a cash payment.
but they have which is taken into Mr. EDUN; Having learnt the 1 do not to should have been gone into extensively in order to or not we can reduce the Even the means test is a bit that There is one thing, howe,ver, consider­ with has been in regard and is being applied of a figure is made.

Some people sum that will be involved, think that I wil.l ask Government 65 to 60 years.

reduce the age from but 1 may It is not in the motion, have asked for an amendment effect.
not think I will be justified that amendment.

question and examined see whether age-limit.

high.

Just recently the expenditure and was simply astounded Education high and also Services.

end, but in a case of this kind l car.­ not see how 1 cannot support it.

The amount given to Old Age pens-ioners is so small that 1 do not see how we it, and I increasing can justly escape ask .

Government if it cannot make some provision as 'it stands.
needs immediate ation, and that is the strictness which the Ordinance applied to the ascertainment before payment are really in no position; receive a small property account, alms.

All that is taken into account and they are d�prived ments which are made under this scheme.

I do not think that at· this moment we can rush blindly into this from a financial these figures as suggest­ ed, then it would mean this Council will have to face a very large exp�ndi­ ture for this item.

1 would not.
1 would not.

like to be guessing, practically now ,being paid.

That hcts to receive considerable 1 would suggest amend his motion to ask Government to set up a Committee Contributory have suggested.

that the vote has gone up so very 1 was scrutinizing I do not see where it wiJJ all but I would say it would treble the amount which is that of the Medical on Social Services Scheme along the lines I from this Council.

to the hon.

Mover to are increased point of view.


If of the small pay­ to support the motion to consider:· a thought Mr. C. V. WIGHT: The motion to that the of consider­ made by the hon.

an amendme.ot there can be no ques­ but I would suggest Member of this Council motion in connection irith and 1 am rather surprised Mr. JACOB: l regret 1 ca11not that this matter goes to a for ihe purpose before Council will meet with my support, hon.

Mover consider the eff;ect Committee ing a Contributory Scheme.
My reason for doing that is this: If that Scheme is inaugurated tion of doubt that the sum total under the Ordinan.ce will be increased.

course there will be an interregnum period.

and That period can be adjusted a period of time fixed when Umt Contributory Scheme will come in and it is-40 or 45 the age-limit yea,rs In the ·meantime those unable to contribute benefit will have the advantage to those under being treated the Contributory Scheme.
Then we will have an equitable agree to the proposal Elected wh·o has just taken his seat.

The ·hon.

Mem­ ber has the credit of having moved the original this matter, that at this stage he should quibble over an increase so very small and should want to refer it to a Committee minably and arrive at no decision.

was one of the principal this matter, up for discussion Council should I have not the figure� $6 in Georgetown Country Districts.
I thought the age-limit considering Colony but agreed that the age-limit in front of .me-� and $4.80 in the As a matter of fact, and when this Bill came in thi:; that the amounts though too high in this as - for contribution to commence.

and those who are to derive be-I think 1 am cor,rect the circumstances distribution.

which may sit inter­ which l consider and approval I suggested similarly whatever movers in of Of I 2527 Old Age Pensions 27 FEBRUARY, 1946.

-increase 2528 Suggested to.


certain foods-bread, butter time-to obtain large to enable those old who have given service proposed by Government should remain.

The amounts as voted were, however, 1ot sufficiently people-people to this Colony without which we might not have enjoyed so much of wha,t we do enjoy at the present two square meals per day.

The hon.

Nominated Member, Mr. Critchlow, referred and something meal per day.

I want hon.

Members of this Council to think a little the poor and needy.
Maybe we not urge on Government necessary meal a day, but we can find money to increase of pounds (sterling).

coming up very shortly increases, quibbling something of hundreds There is a motion for other yet l find hon.

Members over giving the poor people just to exist on.

money to give them a square bit of should high salaries else at one cent each per to find the low, and this I consider and continue and 50 per cent a 25 pe1· cent.
increase $2.40 a month as Old for the people in the Coun­ disgracefully for the Country Districts.

Age Pension try Districts Government ought to be ashamed of itself to want to perpetuate a thing like that.

I notice that in this motion before Council now the hon.

Mover suggests for Georgetown increase I commend him on that aspect of it.

Hmv in the name of heaven any old person in the Country Districts can live on $2.40 n month, J do not know.
$3.60 is better than nothing, should be $4.80, and I am really sur­ prised that one hon.

suggests deferred.

the circumstances people.

If he had been here early in the debate he would have heard from one or two Members how these people appreciate thoroughly the last person to dis-approve o-f this motion.

In fact I think the amcunt-;; stated therein should be increased.
was suggested estimated by our financiers those who ought to know the expendi- that this matter should be Perhaps he does not know this money.

It is money well spent, and I would be but, I think, at least it of some of these that it was originally Elected Member here and It ture would be $180,000, the scheme was started up to over-$200,000 I understand, clearly in this Colony and that there are so many poor people.

but immediately the amount went and this year it is, It shows $272,000.
how much there is dire poverty I am satisfied from my own investi­ some of their to pl'ove pats itself on the back that gations that all the people who are to Old Age Pension do nor.

entitled receive it.

That is something Govern­ ment should think about.

Perhaps Government it is better not to give all these people.

Some of them are una:ble claim and some have got sick of the red tape and will not worry any more but prefer to sit at home and die.
Some have a small income and will net go; they feel ashamed to go and ask for the $2.40 or $3.60 which is being given.

I have seen many of these people, whom have gone and some will not go.

The amount will have reached $300,000 very shortly without this increase is being asked fer but for a number of to be people feeling it is something being prou<l ashamed about.
instead of t:o receive from the s-0me contribution Government C_olony ten People who have served Government thirty years take a pride in or twenty or going to receive their pension, should not these helpless served the Colony for a long number of years go to the Treasury this Old Age Pension.

I think the time has be told that it is not something begging for.

come when the people should for having served this number of years.
:for a long and receive people who have they 2-re which and why it their something Pensio-ners should cons,ider from Gov­ right to receive ernment.

I am prepared and I my just share to such a scheme, Mem­ am ashamed to think that certain bers of this Council that they should not contribute.

consider to contribute There is another aspect of the ought to that since Old Ag� is being paid the ordinary matter.

I think Government have told us before, pension f'1Jt-,r 2529 Old Age Pensions Ll!'.
:GISLATIVE COUNCiL.

-Increase Sitggested 2530 ·1 .,.

, , by a majority \IOte has been reduced.

What is the reduction 'l I have no doubt that the motion will be carried vote.

I would like to see some hon.

Members voting against doubts as to whether the necessary provision will be made in the Executive Council to put the recommendation effect.

it.
it.

I have my into ,b,·� of Oid Age Pensions Dr. SINGH: I agree to the· sug­ but gested increase there are so many aspects sidered to defer the matter for at least a week or two so that those points might be considered.

that I think it would be better to be con­ Mr .. \ USTIN: I would like to add of the inmates for Western Essequibo.

was to report on the cost of Mr. HUMPHRYS: I do not know to say a few moved.

by the rt whether I am permitted words on the amendment hon.
Member one word with your permission, sir.

Some 20 years ago a Ccmmis·sion appointed maintenance House, and it was worked out at 17 rents per head per day.

Therefore Government is paying $5.10 per month for the upkeep of inmates in the Alms did not House, which of COUrRe includes .· over­ nor did I, but head expenses.

That figure ,has no $; doubt gone up considerably so that Government persons who live in their ow11-houses '1very much less than it is spending ijthe inmates of the Alms House.
seems to be that the hon.

Member who has just taken his seat has entirely The hon.

misunderstood Member for Western Essequibo disapprove of an increase, I think the matter should be investi­ gated.

Neither of us thinks of voting _against tion of what the finances of the Colony can stand.

I think the motion should be supported.

since then, giving poor the motion.

It is only a ques­ the position.

in the Alms is really on Mr. THOMPSON: 1I support the I feel that this assistance such receive l\fr.
PERCY C. WIGHT: I am in I know from personal terrible that it is something that it is not only the man or up to $4.80 who is but persons of the motion because favour of the motion.

It is unfortunate 'is necessary.

I regard this Old Age that-aged persons s·hould 1Pension scheme as a glorified small pensions.

list.

There are many people who have knowledge a wrong ide,a about Old Age Pension.
to realise �They believe woman who receives ··1reaches suffering hardship, ,' ally entitled middle class who are too proud to dis­ ihas caused a good deal of concern.

1 play their poverty.

It would be a 'What J feel is really is that the great relief income qualification amended so as to provide from $3.50 per month; it should not be charitable below $10.

:wise· thing for Government to do.

if the income tax laws were for · gifts.

It would be a very the age of 65, he is automatic­ to Old Age Pension.
required should be increased that as soon as a person allowance paupers' That I find that there is great hardship I think to contribute I know of several firms who would to such a fund of aged people.

might go into the ques­ for chal"ity.

be willing for the relief the Treasurer tion of allowances I speak feelingly because I know several poor persons who have worked very hard for years and do not get any pensions from the firms they have served.
Those who are· working now receive large bonuses which ena,ble them to pay their debts, but if they put some of it into incume tax it would serve a very useful purpose.

in the case of a man who has a small piece of land from which he gets no revenue.

He may be too old to make that land producti,·e but its value is assessed him for Old Age Pension.

is made even worse because that he has to pay rates on the .Jand · alth_ough he gets no revenue frbm it.
at a figure which of the fact His position disqualifies Mr. ROTH: The rates payable on ,c,ch land a.·e dednded from his assessed j mcnme.

2�31 Old Age Pensions "2.7 FESRtJARY, 1946.

Tax (Amat.)

Bill 2532 Mr. :rHOMPSON: l repeat that a man who has a piece of land has to pay rates on it whether he gets anything from it or not, and he is denied Old Age Pension when its value is assessed.

lthink that in such a case a man should be given assistance.
motion but I urge that a Committee should investigate the matter.

the various I support the aspects.

to.

of who was unable to claim 1 had also before me the case of an ex-Serviceman Old Age Pension paid his rent.

Those are the type oi points which certainly tion.

require because examina the Association Motion as amended put, and agreeu Mr. CRITCHLOW: I agree with fAX (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1946. readily to go· into made by the hon.
Mem­ that a Com­ of this Colony to various friendly the suggestion for Western Essequibo, be.

!· mittee should be appointed of the the question the matter, especially of a contributory pension introducticn scheme.

The people contribute and if they know that Gov­ societies, for a con­ ernment would be responsible tributor would contribute in Europe and other parts of the world.
I think the qualifying reduced to 60 years, and that Govern­ m�nt should increase to whatever y Old Age Pension scheme they sum the Colony can afford.

the rates of pension willingly.

It exist.� age should be The PRESIDENT: Do you adopt the amendment.

Mr. CRITCHLOW: Yes, sir.

Mr. C. V. vVIGHT: My amendment is that this Council recommends appointment and investigate a contributory of a Committee scheme.

the to consider has because to urge against The PRESIDENT: Government that.
My only is unable to increase of nothing point is that Government agree to an immediate there are so many expenditure points to be gone into.

If we did it we might find ourselves com­ blindly mitted to a very large· sum.

There are many points to be considered.

For example there is the one raised by the hon.

Nominated private income.

I have seen that myself operate in a rather harsh way who was in in the case of a pe1,son shack which possession disqualified him from Old A,ge Pen::;ion.
Member as regards of some miserable and ctrugg1sts, and dispense-I'S shall A Bill intituled "An Ordinance to amend the Tax Ordinance, respect oo the sale of medicated wmes and to trading in gold and precious stones."

1939, with The ATTORNb:Y-GENERAL: This of the Tax Ordin­ to the sale of a.re in favour of the proposal.

to take out a malt in respect of is with respect wines.

Clause 2 of the Uill Bill is an amendment ance 1939, and deals with two matters.
The fi.rst medicated p; ovidcs that chemists and sicknurses not be required liquor and wine licence the sale by them in a drug store of bona fide medicated wines only.

1t is that such a pro­ desirable considered vision should be made, and both the former Director of Medical Services and the present ( Dr. Maclennan) Director Of course it will be appreciated there is the stipulation tions on the label on these medieaterl wines shall indicate tion is intended and not a beverage.
will include such preparations appea-r for example Buckfast wine, Hall's etc.

This proposal is wine, Wincarnis, the result of representations made by !Associ­ the Chemists and Dru�gi�t§' ation who pointed out that in the should be public interest no required of medicated seeks to give effect to those ,represent­ ation!!.

licence to be taken out for the retail wines.

This amendment for ui1e as a medicint!


wines Medicated as Pharmacopoeia, in the Britiish that the prepara­ that the dkec­ that ·2533 Tax ( Am<lt.)

13ill 27 l<'EBktlAR-Y, 1946.

Balceries (Hours of Work.)

Bin 25:H Clause 6 as amended agreed to.

The Council resumed.

in any part of the Colony.

By 1939, 51 of the Tax Ordinance, move that the Bill be now read a third time and passed.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: ·I With regard to trading in gold and stones it will be seen from the 3 of the that clause for the issue of a licence of premises Reasons p�·ecious Objects and Bill provides tu trade in gold in respect situate section (No.

43) a licence be issued only in respect situate in Georgetown, or a mining district.
advisable for issuing premises Courentyne such a licence situate, of premises New Amsterdam It is considered that there should be provisicn of on the for instance, in respec: Coast, Herbice, or Hartica.

to trade in gold can to trading shall come into At the same time opportunity 1946.
I to trade in has sections 51 and in gold and The last clause ( 6} on the 1st Janua,ry, a few licences stones have already and it would be undesir­ those who have already that it is provided been taken to redraft 52 which relate stones.

precious says that the Ordinance operation understand gold and precious been issued, able to penaliz.e paid.

Therefore the Ordinance tion at the beginning of 1946.
At pre­ sent a trader has to take out two to trade in gold and sepa;1·ate licences precious stones, for which _he pays two separate this vision is made in clause 3 (8) o!

Bill for a comprehensive fee to cover both.

I move that the Bill be read a second time.

fees of $40 each.

Pro­ shall come into opera­ Mr. AUSTIN seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a second time.

The Council resolved itself into the Bill clause to consider Committee by clause.

Clause 6.--Comniencement of Onli· nance.


The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that the words '·be deemed to have" be inserted ·'shall" and "come."

between the words -Mr. _AUSTIN seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a third time and passed.

13AI<ERIES (HOURS OF WORK) BILL, 1946.

A Bill intituled "'An Ordinance to regulate the working hours connected and for in bakeries therewith."
purposes As to Friday nights, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: will be seen from the Objects and Reasons which accompany this work in baker­ Bill, it seeks to restrict ies on Sundays to that of setting the night work in sponge, to restrict bakeries except in relation the sponge•, an<l to fix 60 hours a week as the normal hours of work in bakeries.

Sixty hours would be the maximum, but by Order in Council to 72 hours in certain a week.

The normal working day would be 8 hours.


circumstances to setting it may be increased ° The Bill is drafted on the lines of Act of 1937, and on the (Hours of Work) The Bill seeks .to made the Factories Baking Industry Act, 1938, in England.

It is desirable from every point of view that there of the hours should be some limitation of work in bakeries.

give effect to representations from time to time both by the bakers themselves and by various behalf.
thei.r the desirability will appreciate of having this -legislation.

I think the of the Bill meets with the approval has and the hon.

Mr. Critchlow bakers, in taken a very great deal of interest of the matter.

The Commissioner I hope that hon.

Members Unions on 2535 Bakeries LEGISLATM C0UNCll,.

(Iloiirs o.f _Work) Bi1l 25M ·�t.1 both Mr. Fraser and Mr. Bi:;sell, Labou1�, have also gone into the matter, agreed to the proposals the Bill.

I formally be read a second time.


contained move that the Bill in and have Mr. CRITCHLOW seconded.

and they ask for the of the words "or mixing hefore 5 o'clock insertion dough."

With regard to that, I have had t.hfl views of the hon.

Nominated Member, Mr. Critchlow, the Bill as drafted ments desired.

and he thinks meets all the require­ I A ,, ' Question put, and agreed to.

Clause 3 passed without amendment.

Bill read a second time.

Clause 5 -Overtime.


The ATTORNEY-GEN"8R.\L: The have also sub­ Member, l'/Ir.

of cost.

I of with regard to this matter.

who has taken an interest in when were made by the and who has made on behalf of some of ihe of bakeries proprietors mitted thP.ir v·iews with regard to over­ time.

That is a question do not pretend to have a knowledgE> all the details but the hon.
Nominated Critchlow, the matter from the very inception rep1--esentations bakers them��ives ,representB.tion bakers.

submitted said before, rneetR all the desired 1 so just wish to make one observation far as this clause is concerned.

Hon.

that this· is one Members will appreciate of t.hP.

Bill.

It of the important is to be paid- will be Reen that overtime has been through the documem and, as l by the proprietors, thinks the Bill as drafted clauses requirements.
(a)at twice the rate at which he would but for this section respect of work- be paid in The Council resolved to consider itself into the Biil cl,n1se Committee by clause.

Cla•Jt·e 2-/ iiterpretation.

certain The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: who will represen­ from one or two of the proprie­ with regard to this Bill, l woul(l likf> to mention that the hon.

Nom­ inated Member, Mr. Critchlow, bear m,� out, received tations tors of bakeries but I do not think the points they have raised can be met.
1 have had the privilege of going into the matter with the hon.

Nominated Member this morn­ lng and he agrees with me that the points they have raised do not affect the Bill at all.

They have asked that in Ciause 2, the term "work incidental to the manufacture of bread or flour con­ should include "wrapping fect.ir,nery" for· sale."

Th_ey say the interpretation as it stands will prohibit bread unles·s previously the Shop A.,sistant provides out the day and "the night.

The under­ lying principle hours !


:'Cl far as the bakers are concerned, anything else has and consequently nothing to do with the te:rms of the Bill.

the sale of wrapped while (Hours) Ordinance for the sale of bread through­ of the Bill is to limit the Clause passed_ without amendment.

(i)On Sundays, Christmas Day, if falls -on a Sunday, the day after Christmas Christmas the day commonly known as Boxing Day, the fu·st week­ day of January, or Easter Monday; or Good Friday (ii)between.
the hour· of seven in of an� clay and the the evening hour of five in the mornincr in the succeeding day; and 3 -Restriction Claus·e · in Bakeries.

of working hoim, · (b)at one and a half times the rate al which he.

would but for this section be paid, in respect of work- I The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: of bakei'­ It by the proptietors i1- suggested ies that every bakery with the possible exr,ept.ion of a very small concern City mixes the dough or set the sponge in the othc:· (i)on any public holiday, than a?
specified in sub-para­ graph (a) (i) of this section, within the meaning of the or Public Holidays Ordinance; (ii)on any day in excess of eight hours;" ' 2537 Baiceries B·i:li Lii:dtsLATtvt COUNCIL.

Legai Practitioners B'ill 2�83 -,: A� I said the normal working da:v the right by Order in cer­ is eight hours, but the Governor in Council has tain <'irrumstances ment for a maximum period of seventy.

two hours.

to permit employ­ Clause passed as printed.


Clause 7-Powers of the Commissione1· of Lab01.r and other Officers The CHAIRMAN: Subclause (g) is very wide - of Labour, the of Labour, any "1'he Commissioner Deputy Commissioner Inspector Inspector exercise necessary into effect."
of Labour 0r any Assistant of Latour shall have power· to powers as may be such ot11er for carrying this Ordinance of which would examination in ·England, with a Barrister with a Solicitor to enter articles or Solicitor him to enter into articles has passed an examination entitle clerkship he should · be entitled of clerkship in British Guiana.

It thereby pro­ vides that the preliminary of the Law · Society in England or any examination the same will be the prelimin.., ary examinatioh this Colony.
Reference 7 of the Legal Practitioners Orclir.­ ance, Chapter 26, shows that· is by no means an easy section.

It is said one taken from all to be a trou,blesome old Ordinance.

for Solicitors to Section exempted 'from in Is it not wide'?

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Thi,; as such from will be interpreted action as has not al.ready (a)to (f).

generally appeared Clause passed as printed.

Bill passed without amendment.

The Council resumed.


The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I move that the Bill 1be read a third time and passed.

With regard to Section 7 (c)) whe1·e Senior Local the Oxford and Cambridge that examina­ is provided, Examination tion is now not taken as a rule by local students.

commonly and Cambridge ination.


The trouble to the proviso reads as follows taken is known as· the Oxford School Certificate arose in rpganl to that section which : The examination which i,; ex,tm­ "Provided ·general that the following shall be applicable to the in this section prescribed, conditions examinations that is to say,- (i) English, Latin, and English History shall be three of the subject.
; taken, and satisfactory those subjects shall be furnished trar; and proof that have been taken, to the Regis­ Dr. SINGH seconded.

Question put, and agreed to.

(ii)all subjects required to be taken shall be taken by a candidate and proved to have been taken at on� and the same examination."

Bill rearl a third time and passed.

LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (AMENDMENT) .

.

BILL.

A Bill intituled amend the Legal with respect ary to .A!rticles to the examination of Clerkship."
"An OTdinance Practitioners to Ordinance prelimin­ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The object of this Bill, as will be seen from in the Objects and the memorandum jg to provide Reasons, that if a person appre­ Hon.

Members will therefore in connection with be ciate the difficuity the words I have emphasized-·'shall taken and proved to have been taken."

As I understand proviso the School Certificate Examination what is now taken is '·English Literature'' embraces ·'English."
informed that it is recorded as construed it, with regard to of and which, I take it, l have been by a former Chief Justice (i), "English" is not a subject 2539 Legal Practitione1·s 27 FEBROARi', 194u.

(Amendment) Biii 2540 subjects but failed in them.


where the person took the provide for the taking of which, I Certificate is acted upon by the Law to include specified With regard to proviso (ii) the Regu­ lations as to the School C�rtificate Examination a supplementary understand, posi­ Jfhe peculiar Society in England.
passes tion there arises that if a student and Examination the School Certificate fails in Latin he would be entitled to enter into articles literal tificate gxamination If later he has taken Latin and passe<l he is in a Supplementary Examination still not :::o entitled.
The view ha:a; of heen held by a former Chief Justice this Colony that the Registrar will he in taking the Pre­ acting quite properly liminary Examination of the Law Society in England or any examination accepted liminary of clerkship The School Cer­ is now to be in (b).

in lieu thereof examination.

inkrpretation.


as a legal pre­ by a It seems that the time has com� stated in or Solicitor with a Barrister should be placed beyond as re.qui red for articles with a Solicit­ to enter articles and not "taken and it will be merely So you have two views, and it is desirable when the matti�r doubt, and it should be clearly this section that a person who passes the examination of clerkship to be entered or in England is entitled of clerkship in this Colony.
I may mention that at time the acting Chief Jus­ the present tice holds the view that "taken" means "taken and passed'' failed," otherwise nugatory.

consequently matter, which concerns people who desire to become articled educational standard beyond any reproach very capable determined.

;Latin, he would be precluded articled to a Solicitor this ,Colony and, therefore, of this Bi!l is to put on the same footing locally whatever with regard to articles hope I have made my point quite dear to hon.

Members.
Members.

That being so, I desire to move the second reading of this Bill.

and whose may othe1"\vise be and who may be and efficient, should be If a person came down in from being or a Bairrister in England of clerkship.

the object operates that this in � L Dr. SINGH seconded.

Mr. JACOB: I take it that the intention is to remove the proviso b Section 7 of the Legal Practitioners Ordinance, Chapter 26.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: No.


obtains of the hon with a Barrister him to enter articles Mr. JACOB: I am glad to hear it is in not, because I was rather interested the Attorney­ the arguments General in regard to the subjects taken and not passed.

So Jong as a candi­ I a certificate date or a student evi­ think that should be satisfactory of dence to entitle or a Solicitor.
clerkship It may be that a student takes Latin or English History and does not pass in either or both of those subjects, but having taken the examination and those having been put forward by a subjects I take it,, that stud en L school of repute, to be would have learnt sufficient able to master the technique or those if they came within the scope subjects of his articles of clerkship.
If it is the intention by say­ must take those sub­ ing that a student jects and must pass in them, then it is going to create a serious hardship who are There may be several of clerk­ contemplating ship, who have not passed in some of but who may those necessary subjects 1 have taken them at the examination.

gather then there is no inteintion to remove this proviso.

The qualification:, for articles broadened.


no objection varying or amending this particula proviso of clerkship If that is so, then I have to it, but I am opposed to entering articles to amend this proviso at this stage.

are now being students here.

r D-r. SINGH: 1 think this legislation who prepar­ who are already will be quite all right for students but what 8ibout are about to be articled, these students ing for some examination passed the School Certificate tion except in Latin?
A particular dent was advised by the Kegistrar take the Supplementa·ry three subjects.

taken and although stu­ to in The Examination was passed the student and who have Examina­ Examination 2541 Legal Practitione1·s LEGISLA.TIVE COUNCIL.

(Amendment) Bill 2542 and obtained from the Cambridge y Board he did not pass in a Credit p:iss, It should like when the Dentist and got a certificate Universit Latin.
It is very hard on a student, when a high educational quali­ he has obtained taken the Supplementary ,having fication Examination that he cannot be articled.

be something Ordinance persons to register, go thro.ugh law.

If something some consideration those students already.

were made but the newscomers had to the course prescribed by came into force.
All those dentistry should be given to who are practising new is introduced practising in England for the purpose of clerkship allowed articles as coming within the ambit of ·the Regulations in England.

as used by the Law Society will be permitted of Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: We a,re a Bill in this Council of it consists.

'to be applicable tllat exists in in now passing which we do not know what The Bill is suppo8ed to any condition What are th� conditions England.

We are just simply passing England?


because this here blindly, think hon.

Members of this Council with the conditions are acquainted England.

I have not given this Bili any thought in it, but it would appear from the statement ney-General lation without knowing what we are passing.

made by the hon.
the Attor­ legis­ that we are passing neither am I interested 1 do not 5n The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: So by the hon .. Mem­ all here under for articles That is as far as it from continuing with a Soiicitor for and received (Dr. Singh) has raised the and of examination The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: it to say that what­ fo in (Mr. District as will be seen from we are not What we of clerkship · if that Latin, as in the It is just like the or the Inns of Cou,rt so they far a,s the point raised ber for North-Western J·acob) is concerned, amendment, the proposed with the proviso.
interfering are doing is (to use the hon.

Member's words) extending eve1· is gocd enough for admission of clerkship articles England will be permitted this amendment.

�oes.

The hon.

Member for Demerara� Essequibo poin',t of fear that a person who has in good faith applied admission would be precluded it is interpreted is a subject proviso, taken but the candidate a pass.

As I said, there have been two One held expressed.


different means taken and goes that "taken" no further, and the other opinion is means not only taken but that ·'taken'' it defeat!

:;• otherwise passed, taken and the whole idea underlying ion.

It would mean that a person can just go and take the examination, write nothing "I have passed in the other subjects That is one but dropped in Latin.''
l do not aspect of the situation propose to express an opm1on on_ All we are trying to do here by this amendment is to say that wh�tever is It is not quite that.

The Law Society-in England is the Body that controls to Solicitors things pertaining deals with the question of qualifications.

Bar Council is concerned; far as the Barrister and the papers have their examinations are set and sent all over the world.
what they are saying Consequently and what they have found out as the result of their great experience :m<l of their ,continual this sort, l venture to say, will be unless it is in the Colonies, acceptable hei·e is a that our standa,rd suggested one to that set for the different people who are applying for If the hon.

of clerkship Member desires fa).'


as the requirements then I would have to ask this Council to postpone until I get those details but, as I have pointed to emphasize, as Solicitors Colonies body and the examination toni i,i set by that Body.

is the guiding for Solici­ for submission out and I wish so far the Law Society both in England and the in so to have details are concerned, consideration touch with matters and walk out and say are concerned in England.
has to obtain not only to be this provis­ opinions articles of this Bill 2543 Legal Practitioners 27 FEBRUARY, 1946.

(Amendment) Bill 2544 Mr.

PEER BACCHUS: I thank is postponed.

if the Bill the point made by the Dis­ you for the information.

I would be much obliged For instance, hon.

Member for N<;>rth-Western trict is that this Bill has conditions which are going to be wider than the details the of the proviso.
conditions with the proviso it compulsory be taken, then the proviso would amount to nothing.

supplied now existing with what are the conditions in England do not fit in and you do not make Members should be for specific Supposing in England.

subjects to The PRESIDENT: We can take and then defer the the second reading Committee stage.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read a second time.


'l'he PRESIDENT: The next item is a Bill in the name of the Attori1ey­ General ( Demerara Ri ve,r Navigation Markers Bill, 1946) which I under­ stand he does not wish to take now.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The Mr. JACOB: I notice that para-·­ Schedule is not ready.

graph (g) is going to be put in the pi·oviso in the Ordinance.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: You have (a.)

to (f).

All those set out the va-rious But to all those.


You you have a proviso are now getting by wHy of (g) which follows an amendment qualifying examinationf.

f'rom (f).

Mr. JACOB: I suggest that consideration until a later stage.

of the Bill be deferred The PRESIDENT: That brings to a somewhat end.

The Attorney-General meeting me that he has an important our proceedings unexpected informs Committee on the Landlord Tenant Bill which he would be able to take at any moment this afternoon.
It might therefore we adjourned Control bt!siness tomorrow.

able to Members I will adjourn the Council motion as our first If that is agree­ now and take the Dual until tomorrow suit Members if of Schools at 2 p.rn.

and The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I Council adjourned accordingly.

have no objection.

I..