Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698069534841.pdf (Guyana)
941 Members Present.LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

COUNCIL.

Unofficial Notices.

942 The Hon.

C. A. McDoom (Nominated), The Clerk read prayers.

FRIDAY, 30TH APRIL, 1948, Minutes of the meeting of the Council held on Thursday, printt?d and confirmed.

and cfrculated were taken as read 29th April, 1948, as • , · The Council met at 2 p.m. His PAPERS LAID r : Excellency 1f oolley, dent, in the Chair .

• .

the Governor, O.B.E., Sir Charles M.C., Presi- K.C.M.G., PRESENT.
The President, His Excellency Campbell the Woolley, Governor, K.C.M.G., Sir Charles O.B.E., M.C.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on documents the table the following :- Report of the Registrar of Trade Unions for the year ended 31st December, 1947.

Report of the Geroge.town Plan­ ning Commiss.ioners tration of the replanning the period 1st August, 1947, to 31st January, on the adminis­ Scheme for 1948.

The Hon.

the Colcnial Secretary, Mr. Reoort of the Trustees Fund for the year 1946.

Mitchell of the W.L.


Heape, C.M.G.

The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. UNOFFICIAL NOTICES E.M. Duke (acting).

COST OF LIVING ALLOWANCES The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. E. F. McDavid, C.B.E.

TO PENSIONERS.

Capt.

COGHLAN gave notice of the following motion :- The Hon.

Dr. J.

B. Singh, O.B.E., (Demerara -Essequibo).

The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo River).

The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

The Hon.

T. T. Thompson (Nomi­ nated).

, The Hon.

G. A. C. Farnum (Nomi- l' nated).

• !

The Hon.

Capt.


J. P. Coghlan (D,;merara River).

The Hon.

D. P. Debidin (Eastern Il•�merara).

The Hon.

J. Fernandes (Georgetown C,entral).

The Hon.

Dr. C. Jagan (Central Demerara).

The Hon.

W. 0.

R. Kendall (New AJrnuterdam).

"Whereas by Resolution No.


IX Council on the passed by Legislative 22nd of Allowance were approved ; and to Government April, rates of Cost of Living pensioners "Whereas, with the steady rise in the cost of living, these rates are far too low ; it is considered that "Be it resolved that this.

Honour­ able Council recommends favourable ment that the following be adopted :- consideration of Govern­ rates should for the 40 % on the first $360 per annum.

20% on the next $360 per annum.


and a flat rate of $144 per annum on pensions exceeding but not exceeding Provided that : (a)no ·pensione.r $720 per annum $1,440 per annum.

shall receive less than $10 per month inclusive the increased cost allowance; (b)any oensioner who is, in receipt of living of of a -pension from the public funds.

of an:v other Colonial Go·vernment of living allowance culated pro rata on his entire pension."

as cost a sum cal­ shall receive 943 Private Motions.

Questions.
Questions.

30 APRIL, 1948.

944 PRIVATE MOTIONS. '

Mr. DEBIDIN : Before the Order of Council in relation with I desire with 's.

permission the Day is proceeded Your Excellency to refer to the Standing Rules and Orders of the Legislative to two motions which I have tabied here.

I gave notice of them on Wednesday-the before yesterday-anticipating Council would have sat on Wednesdays.

On reference to Standing No.

12 one finds that it reads :- day that the Rule and Order "12.
Subject to the provi&ions Order No.

11 Motions by Unofficial Members shall on every Wednesday during the session take precedence over all other business."

of Then, one finds that Standing Rule and Order No.

2 (b) says :- "(b) The Council meet on Tuesdays, from 2.00 p.m. Thursdays to 5.00 p.m.

The President may, how­ ever, require the Council to sit on such other days and at such other times as he may determine.'
and Fridays shall ordinarily Wednesdays, I feel so would feel that My object in bringing this.

matter to of this Council is to ask to direct that private Rule and Order No.

12. the attention Your Excellency motions in future should be taken on Wednesdays and given priority as.

pro­ vided in Standing I have no doubt that every Member who tables a private motion it is of very great importance.
in respect of those of which I have given notice and I would be very glad if they on any are brought up for discussion Wednesday and given the necessary priority.

volume of work to be done by the Council on various may be seen from the Order of the Day-and that is very important Rule and for the provision Order No.

12 which gives 'Priority on Wednesdays to motions tabled by Unofficial Members.

I shall be very grateful is done in the matter.


but there must be some reason in Standing I know that there is a large if something Bills-as It on that day they take precedence.

I think we can arrange to for Unofficial but it is.

true that if there is.

meet on Wednesdays matters, Council In so far as the hon.

Member's motions are concerned, take them next week, either on Thursday or Friday.

As regards tne question wheth<::r we should meet on Wednesday, and Friday every week, that .
Thursclc:.y would mean quite a lot of work.

Hon.

Members have their own affairs to attend : to and, not only that, we have CommittEf\ t work to do and if we sit on three dafs that work cannot be done continuousiy and it is quite as.

important as the work being done by us here.

I think it would be possible motions next week, and there is also another motion which I hope would come before this Council next week, that is the mot10n for the payment of to take the hon.

Member's Members.
Member's Members.

Mr. DEBIDIN : Thank you, sir.

ORDER OF THE DAY AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION.

Dr. JAGAN asked, and the Colonial Secretary ing questions :- laid over replies to the follow­ agricultural Q.1.
With respect to each of the following : Cas­ products sava (s.weet), Cassava (bitter), Corn, Ed does,, Plantains, (Maize), Sweet (Peasant), Rice .Potatoes, Rice (Mahaicony-Abary Scheme) Tannias, Yams, Coconut, and Sugar Cane (Farmers), information :- questions will Government on the following supply What is the total number n (8 hour clay) or man-days to cultivate of man-hours required from the beginning tion for "planting" "reaping" one acre of lt of the prepara­ to the end• of • d ?

to cultivate Ans.

1.


The number of man­ days.

required any par­ ticular area of land depends on but it is several variable that the following considered figures represent in a reasonable average conditions Cassava-sweet factors, estimate :- and The PRESIDENT : I have not lost sight of what the hon.

Member has just and I hope that time will be mentioned available of one next week for discussion or two of the Unofficial motions now to before the Council.

It is not necesary bitter .


Maize Eddoes Plantains Sweet Potatoes Tannias Yams 50 22 50 48 63 50 160 do.

do.

do.

do.

do.

do.

man-days 945 Questions.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Sea Defence (Amdt.)

Bill.

946 ' Sufficient data is not available to to be made in of rice, sugar cane (farmers) enable an estimate respect and coconuts.

COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE SEA DEFENCE (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Q.2.
Q.2.

Wherever m a c h i n e r y and/or animals are used what is the total number of machine-hours and/ to cultivate or animal-hours one acre of land ?

required The Council mittee to consider clause by clause:- resolved into Com• itself the following Bill A Bill intituled "An Ordinance to Ans.

2.

Sufficient data is not to enable an estimate to be available made of the number of machine-hours or animal-hours machinery or animals arc used.

amend the 1933, with respect sea defences, conservation shore."
required where to the definition of and to provide for the of lands along the fore- Sea Defence Ordmance, Q.3.

What is the amount allowed as cost per man-hour.

day, machine-hour man­ and animal-hour?

Ans·.

3.

The value of a full clay's work by aJJ.

able-bodied adult has been taken as $1.68.

The ATTORNEY GENERAL: With to the point raised by the hon.
reference Member for Demerara should like to quote section Defence Ordinance, 1933, which says :- 12 of the Sea River, yesterday, I "12.-(1) All sea defences are or shall be in existence shall by force of this Ordin­ district ance beco!P,-e the property of the Crown .... , which in any allowed Q.

4.

What sum of money is as rent for one acre of land?

Ans.

4.
Ans.

4.

It is not of course regarding and quality the to generalise possible rent of land, as this depend_s_ on the of the land, but situation for the purpose of calculating- the mie1mum p�·ice, the guaranteed average figure of $5 per acre has bcl:'11 allow2d to cover the period during the area.

which the crop is occupying 2 No.

5 at Pln.

in a sea is referred to in section 1933, it is clear that The hon.

the First district and to the Sea which can become the property as.
meaning any sea so that the only sea boundaries are "the Boerasirie "District" of the Ordinance defence district, defences of the Crown are those situate defence district.

Nominated Member, I think, made it clear that sea or river defences Bank, Demerara Klein, Pouderoyen, West River, are not in a sea defence to the Schedule on reference Defence Ordinance, that is, so.

In Sea Defence District the southern schedule to the western boundary Rust, thence along of the 2nd depths of Plns.
Versailles, Malgretout, en-Schutz Ruimzigt, boundary Demerara or river defences at Pln.

Klein to the Pouderoyen south of Pln.

Swan-en-Schutz do not become the property section 1933.

I hope that explanation the position for Demerara River is concerned as set out in that Canal Service of Pln.

Lust iot the back boundaries to the back boundary thence along the northern of Pln.

Swan-en-Schutz River," Klein-Pouderoyen of Pln, 12 of the Sea Defence Ordinance, in so far as tne hon.
Member so that the sea defences which estate is situate of the Crown under will clarify and Swan­ tn the .· .

Q.5.

Wherever fertilizers are is requlred what quantity necessary, for the c'lltivation land ?

On the basis of prevailing pric1;s. cost?

what will the above quantity of one acre of Ans.

5.

It is not possible the quantity since this generalise _of fertilizers required depends.

on the condition of the soil.

regarding to of Q.

6.

What is the yield per acre?

Ans.

6.


The average yield per acre on well-cultivated average .

quality • Cassava-sweet land is estimated and at : bitter ·Maize Eddoes Plantains Sweet Potatoes Rice (padi) Tannias Yams.

Coconuts Sugar cane (average 8,000 lbs.

1,700 do.

6,000 do.

7,500 do.

7,000 do.

2,500 do.

4,500 do.

9,000 do.


2,500 nuts plants and ratoons) 25-30 tons Many crops do not require year to reach maturity and costs vary considerably different of soil, the drainage, the land and other similar to the type the condition factors.

a complete and yields areas according in of Mr. DEBIDIN : At the time of the beg to move: HEALTH SERVICES COMMITTEE REPORT.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : I since the bed of a river on is situate I was asking for of par.
(b) of clause 2 of inter­ 947 Sea Defence (Amdt.)

Bill.

30 APRIL, 1948.

Heaith Services 948 yesterday adjournment an interpretation (b).

I think it is.

just a question pretation, may be the which a structure the entire bed of the river.

Probably Attorney me and say if the par.

is quite clear as it stands.

I am not objecting to it, but the question amended to read "that portion of the river".

to His Ex­ cellency Messa�e No.


6 of the 11th March, 1948, this Coun- cil approves of the recommendations on Health Servh.

:2s provided the Society for• the Prevention Treatment Infant Welfare subject 1. in paragraph 4 of the Message and l action being taken in accordance with in the ,1 the proposals Message."
r, through and of Tuberculosis and the and Maternity "That with reference the Governor's The ATTORNEY GENERAL I may General will be able to assist is whether it should not be to th2 reservation of the adoption as outlined of the bed is nothing original in of the Cc;mmittee League!

as indicated· point out tha+.

there that paragraph-Cb).

definition ·bed of the river has been brought out prominently.

the definition.

has been put into that par.


that There is oo difficulty in It is only because a Mr. DEBIDIN : Although -it was there before it might be thought that the definition is too wide.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Sure­ ly, the definition is quite clear.

The word;; are "bed of the river on which any structure Surely that could not mean the entire bed of the river, and if the words suggested are inserted is built."

by the hon.

Member they would be redundant.

Clause 2 passed.

Council resumed.


The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I beg to move that this Bill be now l'ead a third time and passed.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.

Motion put and agreed to.

If which as Council clear and very I hope hon.

Members have had an op- the document Dr. Hetherington, pc;-rtunity of studying was printed and circulated Paper No.

2 of 1948.

It is the report of That Committee.


the Medical Services of Committee of the Director consisted Medical Services, as Chairman ; Dr. Singh, Mr. W. 0.

Fraser, Mrs. M. Bayley and Mrs. E. Challoner.

hon.

Members have read the report I think they will agree with me that it is an excellent document-very well wr nten.

The object of this motion is to secure this Council's recommendations mittee.

Hon.

Members would recall the Committee suggestions ment of the status.
Health Visitors Municipal and Maternity Services health service.

than to quote from the conclusions of the Committee the report : they summarize their sions as follows Society I can do no better approval made by that Com­ and the Tuberculosh; in this Council for improve­ in the Services-the League, the Government the Infant Welfare as set out in par.

30 of was appointed and position · Service, conclu­ owmg to of the of the that :- Bill read a third time and passed.
The PRESIDENT : It has not been mentioned during the debate, but it seems to me that this Bill is very timely in relation to the troubles had and are still experiencing of floods.

It affects one of our greatest problems-the of our sea defences-and the Bill passed.

we have recently it is good to see on account erection and maintenance "30.
The Committe : (a)that the emoluments is of the opinion offered­ League, by Government, to health visitors Infant Welfare and Maternity and Tuberculosis sufficiently able applicants these posts ; " That is a fact ; there has b!>fn quite a lot of difficulty in getting/ suitable candidates.

Societv are not to induce suit­ to train or apply for The second concli./sion attractive is : "(b) that all health visitors should be trained nurses qualified in .... 949 Health Services LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Committee Report.

950 of the that the salary of Mid­ an Inspector Then, in the same par.

in the emoluments amounts to an increase present the scale in force is $480 nsmg to $600 per annum so that this recom­ mendation in the maximum salary.

they state that there should be correspond­ ing increases senior posts.

There are not many of these posts and as regards wives it is recommended scale should be $720 rising to $960 whil� the salary of a Senior Health Visitor­ remain the same.
It $720 to $840-should has also been recommended that the salary of a Senior School Nurse which is at present $480 to $600 should be $720 to $840.

The third recommendation that the service ment and the Municipal Health should be made fully interchangeable purposes accepted, would involve, with the Town Council to an arrange­ ment whereby a single pension would be paid and apportioned Government and the Town Council case where an officer has served in both services.
That has happened We have had examples serving to the Town Council and vice, versa, and there is no doubt that we will have it occurring mendation- Services for That, Sir, if it is It of pension.

would involve legislation.

of Health Visitors and going across again.

The 4th recom­ of persons.

in the Govern­ in Government an agreement in the pas.t.
of course, between the in a is should be "That Health Visitors posted for duty with the Infant Welfare and Maternity the Tuberculosis Society these organizations their present League and to enable activities."
to carry on and in possession ·midwifery Certificates Visitors' Institute), and salaries raised to a level commensurate ; " their qualifications , · should b·e with of Health (Raval Sanitarv and next, "(d) that salaries and conditions of all health visitors should of service be the same ; " tl1at 1s to say, whether they are Govern­ ment employees Infant Welfare and Maternity the Town Council or the Tuberculosis Society.
of the or .League, , or employees The fourth conclusion is: "(d) that health visitors' service � should be pensionable and that trans­ fer from one branch to another of public health work should not involve loss of pension or other benefits already earned ; " The last conclusion was : "(d) that the best interests of at present the public health would be served if the health visitors in the employment of the Tuberculosis and the Infant Welfare and Society Maternity into League were absorbed Government service and were duty with these bodies .... " asisgned Those were the conclusions of the and then they went on to make recommendations Ccmmittee precise conclusions Their recommendations are in par.
31 and they fall under seven heads.

In sub­ par.

1 they say : should be brought into effect.

as to how those "(l) that in order to obtain by the and conditions of service conditions, oe on as health visitors, uniformity health visitors.

now employed Infant Welfare and Maternity Leagu(!

and the Society for the Prevention of Tuberculosis and Treatment appointments offered Government the same terms Government all previous full-time service with the League and, the Society should be considered able as.
if it had been Government service, the revised fixed in accordance regulations had been Government with Government service ; " service and that they should enter salary scale at a point as if their previous continuous pension­ and that That simply means that these Health should now as employ­ who are now regarded Visitors ees of these organizations become Government servants, ,hould be posted to the organizations under whom they are· actually Recommendation No.
6 is : salary scales should "That the revised come into effect as from January 1st, 1946".

functioning.

and they The second recommendation Sir, I feel is a very reasonable which would commend itself T.hat, proposal this Council.

is that the salaries themselves they should be put on a uniform salary scale of $480 to $720 per annum.
At should be revised and that of the health visitors to This report was subjected siderable another, somewhat to a con­ amount of delay in one way or and coming before this, Council impossi- it is practically belated 951 Health Services 30 APRIL, 1948.

Committee Report.

952 of this Council prnposes subject to the ble to bring these salary sea les into effect as frcm January, 1946.
Government, therefore, approval should be given the same salary as on the 1st January, have attained in force as from January 1st, 1946, as we have here.

It is onl:v fair that should be done.

Recommendation for four years with the League, in the second case for four and a half years with the League and in the third case for eleven years with the League.
The Town Council recommended into account should take those services and give them some superannuation fit in connection will, as I have said, be computed jointly with the Municipality in conjunction 1948. to which the:v would had these new scales been with that service.

that these officers that Government bene­ It No.

7 says : , "That Government should consider the possibility butar:v superannuation benefit of subsidized ployed by the League."
scheme for the midwives of initiating a contri­ em­ had considered from the Government there are four of these Nurse­ but as might be arrive at no definite That has not been adopted by Govern­ ment.

Members may know, there are these people in the ru::-al areas.

They get a small subsidy and fees.

Some to charge certain are entitled of them have served for a very long time.
Actually Midwives who are aged bet"'een 60 and 70, and the Committee how they could be given some kind of super­ annuation benefit, expected conclusion purse is a subsidy and the Committee's that we should try and set up a contribu­ tory superannuation people.

Members will realize it is hardl_v to set up a scheme which will be 0£ any real benefit to these people.
Some of them have been working for a long time and it would be impossible to start at this stage a scheme for them, many being comparatively old.

Govern­ ment could not adopt that recommend­ ation because it regards the�, could .

All they get from the public of about $15 per month, recommendation scheme for these practical is it as impractical.

I said of the with the concurrence who have already it is proposed retired.
to bnng in special Lastly Your Excellency's Message deals with the case of three Health Visitors before, legislation Town Council so that the joint services should become uniformly pensionable, the recornmenda this respect respect tain date.

There are three such officers­ Mrs. McAndrew and Mrs. Mrs. Bunbur_v_, Barnwell.
a short while These ladies retired ago, having served before their employ­ in one case ment with the Town Council and in in up to a cer­ of those already retired t10n of the Committee should apply retrospectively Government also in this motion asks � to concur in the granting of to these three per­ benefit of their previous the Council superannuation C services sons in respect under the League.
This motion is belated, and I feel sure that Members will appreciate have that these Health Visitors been deserving for a long time, and I do hope the motion commends itself of -some better treatment to the Council.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.


in respect and Maternity I know of several I think it is a mistaken with the conditions for some consideration to Mr. J ,EE: With all due respect which if they the members of this Committee made these recommendat10ns, were conversant of the midwives in obtaining I feel sure they the country districts, in these recommen­ would have provided dations for them.
What is the use, first of all having these Health Visitors League Nurses trying to care the mothers before birth and not caring the children at birth but after birth.

idea.

The most care is needed before birth and during delivery.

cases where through lack of proper accommodation both mother and child died.

I would ask Government sider the case of these midwives stationed in the rurnl districts Let them in the Government Service.

them be under the supervision of Gov­ ernment.


If we are gomg to have Dis­ pensers throughout the Colony in order to attend to the sick, to provide as cheap medicine as possible population vide for the unborn child and its mother.

We should provide means whereby the health of the child is looked after and also the birth of the child.

Your Excel­ lency may have seen the little Cottage Hospital to recon­ who are and include and to keep the we should also pro­ Through the instru- at Charity.
in health, 'f J 953 Health Services LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Committee Report.

954 of the hon.

Member for Western, that hospital mentality Essequibo care and attention fore and during childbirth quite warrants was built and the g·iven to mothers be­ that expenditure.

in that hospital attention should subsidize and of every the least in the country in the country for the delivery I feel Government to the Government and supervision; pay for it.
In that way there and that is apart from the old lady, Let me draw this Council's to another point.

Recently the fees charged by the midwives districts have been increased; yo-..1 have to pay is $6.00 and the highest $10.00, as we call her, who looks after the bed­ with all due ding.

etc.
etc.

Your Excellency, respect and its ad­ visers, these mi<iwives child ar.d not let the parents districts would be control should the child or its mother die during delivery that as to the proper medical attention woman received If Government the ques­ tion of taking these midwives in the country districts certainly sider the question to them.

I know as a fact there are several child a:1d the parent� pay the midwife's generous the game towards the midwife as well as the mother and child.
If Government does not want to take these midwives let them be subsidised the Service, b:v pay­ ment for every delivery.

After all, the the less our taxa­ greater our population tion per capui will be as the years go by.

I feel that Governme:1t should con­ sider that.

into the Service, then I con­ cot !ld not afford to fee and she had been cases where a midwife delivered to forego it.

That is not playing would ask that Government of payment for deiivcry during the delivery.
is not considering into a there could be an investigation Front, in oi.i1e..: if there is an to fetch her, and nourishment of Wakenaam and Leguan.
I do of that money being utilised is the position but I do know that on the case at Hague Backdam, the to go to Anna Catherina in for the mother and in paying for of the midwife to and Islands not know what constituencies, West Coast, Demerara, emergency people ha�•e where the midwife lives, in such cases the cost to the poor parents becomes a burden as after the delivery instead obtaining baby it has to be utilised the conveyance from the home.
I feel that should also go into the matter of con­ veyance of the midwife in these outlying districts.

When we have cottage and dispensaries the Colony, it 'Nill be time for the League to educate the people to go to those places which Government has es­ tablished the mother and chiid and for Government to stop this subsidy ance to midwives to provide ample protection allow­ and travelling established in the country Government hospitals throughout for districts.

The PRESIDENT: we had Birth these needs.


but I have never heard of a Birth Society_ We have Burial Societies, Societies It would be good if to provide for Mr. McDOOM: I support the sugges­ I would was very a long dis­ herself her travelling mother to Georgetown and in some cases to remove when the mother arrived her condition tion made by the last speaker.
like to say that I know cases where people in the country W€re not able to find enough money to employ a midwife for delivery at childbirth, it had been found necessary the expectant necessitating tance; sometimes in Ge.orgetown bad.

I know one case where a woman was not able to provide of sustenance birth to a child.

and through the efforts of neighbours make a safe delivery alive today.
It does seem to me that if we paupers' are issuing purpose of giving medical aid to peo'ple, who are already who to some extent can help themselves, there is no reason why we should not formulate issued by responsible tricts give birth to obtain the services people in the dis­ would enable a poor person due to of a cer- she was able to and that child is when she was due to give born and grown up and certificates and friends with any kind for the some plan whereby a certificate At a request made to me I wrote but no pro­ relative the Director to the midwives of Medical in the between quite recently Services Island of Wakenaam charging $6.00 and $10.00 for a delivery vision is made in that charge for travel­ ling.
If it is a night call that poor man has to hire the best conveyance he can get to take the midwife to his home, some­ times it is a cart.

At some times the mjd­ if she has not wife has to hire a bicycle.

one, to answer the call.

In cases of emer­ gency the midwife sometimes has to hire a car at a cost of $5.00 in some parts of the 955 Health Services 30 APRIL, 1948.

Committee Report.

956 tified midwife free of cost.

I think it is very important.

of the last speaker's I am heartily suggestion.


in support Mr. FARNUM: I think paragraph 29 very serious con­ With your permission I will of the Report requires sideration.

read it: " .c the tin.1e of d1ihll>i1·th, but eventually quite George­ for delivery Georgetown, rn some form or other the of the Public Hospital should be done.
It is work of a very important of how best one but is, how many people enough or to get in time for delivery remarked "If you are not able to you should seek the pay $10.00, the fee charged, she had to submit to judgment and ask for time to pay it.

The Magistrate rightly pay for such services services town."

The question are able to anticipate into Georgetown without wasting a long number of days?
I have great experience can anticipate at the same time I know that if a11 take it into their heads to go to the Public Hospital, there would not be enough room to accommo­ date them.

It therefore does come back to this: Something social welfare nature.

Outside of this present resolu­ tion somet:hing should be done very early to subsidize work of the nurse-midwives areas.
I do not believe a much higher as I always believe, the incentive ·..vork is the amount they receive from the individuals that if a nurse-midwife ment of $20.00 per month that can be in­ creased by a certain amount extra for every delivery.

That, I think, would meet the case.

In other words, some such pro­ posal should be adopted whereby they should not charge more than $5.00 for a delivery rendered should that would certainly thinking trict5.
Although they are receiving salary from Government mitted to charge for every consultation fee of $1.20.

If the doctors are getting salary from Government and something from the people just in the same way it should be for the nurse-midwives.

go to Government.I meet the case.

I am whom they serve.

I feel is given an emolu­ and any extra amount for services of the Doctors in the rural dis­ salary will help because, that giving them in the rural they are per­ to better think a a a One thing I would lil!
:e to emphasize to set up prac­ in the rural dis­ are not enough, and that is because and that is the midwives tricts it is not a payable concern tice there on the1r own.

I feel that every district nurse-midwife.

nurse-midwives and the number is more than is required for Georgetown.
done to inspire them should be served by a qualified A list of the registered is published Something should be to go out into the every year, midwives to but does not considers that it is in the interests of the "The Committee imperative public health that some means be found of attracting country districts that subsidized midwives or other.

midwives can be made eligible pensions It should be possible, initiate a contributory scheme which would enable them to provide for their old age."
or superannuation however, to engaged in private practice for Government believe benefits.

superannuation The point is, there does not seem to of the mid­ where they are placed.

be any fixed policy in respect wives in the country districts.

I know some districts There is one place, Rose Hall, which is a very large district, there is no nurse-midwife ment does not see its way to subsidise midwife f,or that district.
paragraph think it is a matter that Government should give some ser.ious refers very forcibly to that.

I where it is complained and Govern­ I think this notice to.

a are things social welfare Health services I think, we cannot do tend towards g,·eater Mr. DEBIDIN: I an1 in hearty agree­ Any matter that will have my ment with the resolution.

deals with health services support because, enough in that respect.
and what is being proposed which, I believe, efficiency and better results so far as public health is concerned.

No greater than what is being done now.

I have risen also to support what has been said by previous speakers.

I have personal knowledge of conditions in the rural areas in respect of this matter, because repre­ sentations have been made to me.
Only yesterday at the Vigilance Magistrate's Court, I was able to see a nurse-midwife suing a number of people for her charges for services There was one pathetic who declared work is undertaken that she was not able to case of a woman rendered as nurse-midwife.

957 Health Services LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Committee Report.

958 • ► J ,.

and by way of encourage­ rural districts, ment a salary of $20.00 or $25.00 should be given them.
If that is done I believe the people in the rural areas would be better served in that respect.

that in the near future this very import, ant problem be taken up by Government.

at Georgetown.

that of the T.B.

Health Her salary still to increase of the Senior forgot entirely emoluments Visitor remains at $840.

I think that should be amended in the report and placed on the same b.:>.sis That is the only point I would like to be considered.

as the other two Senior Nurses.


urge I do strongly Dr. SINGH: The Health Services of Dr. JAGAN: When I look at the re­ in this to be trained and the Society will be required of Tuberculosis.
should really come under the con­ League, and Treatment and c:onclusions I see that the Health also in midwifery of the-Health Visitors' of five e.g., the Govern- Guiana, the Municipality the Municipality of New the Infant Welfare and for the the Colony are under tne control separate departments, 1�ent of British ot GeoFgetown, Amsterdam, Maternity Prevention We thought first that these different agencies trol of one body in ordei-to regulate Health Services make it efficient.

consideration th.
consideration th.

:iught the Services at the present time, beca:.ise that there are volunteei·s ony-people these services on.

the of the Colony, and to After a good deal of it was in the Committee, as they are of the fact commendations Committee's report, Visitors nurses who are qualified and are in possession certificate.

profession, arduous and exacting become qualified.


I feel that the Com­ mittee did not go far enough in its re­ We commendations have been hearing a lot about the short­ age of nurse-midwives.

In fact, one hon.

Member mentioned situation state of affairs exists on the neighbouring sugar estate of Port Mourant.

The posi­ tion is that nurse-midwives attracted districts because to these appointments ln the are too low.
the salaries In my opinion nursing and it takes years of very a moment ago the The same in the Col­ so much for in Rose Hall village.

The next question and who continue who sacrifice study and work to salaries.

are not being as regards to leav_e to carry is a or standard and were able etc.
We went into the matter there were inequalities we thought of was In the in the pen­ emoluments, to put up in form of emoluments for admission who have qualified and have also obtained of the Royal Sanitary In­ the personnel first place tenns of appointment, sion rights.· very carefully this report a regular and a regular appointment-nurses as nurse-midwives the certificate as health visitors.
stitute at the present time the Service is not as Government sufficiently attractive, not get Health Visitors to take up appoint­ ment because the Municipality town offers better facilities emoluments ·been increased.

to bring the emoluments Visitors also, as I have said, a standard ment, pensions sidered of George­ and the nurses have on one level.

That was done and and other things were con­ It was therefore of public hospital and decided upon.
It was felt that for appoint­ of all Health decided can­ One thing I regret very much is that while we considered the senior nurses stat:oned and New Amsterdam and increased scale of their emoluments the emoluments to $960, we at Georgetown the of Only a few weeks ago Sub­ the Medical the question in dental diseases, Certifi­ as mid­ and when we take into considera­ were considering with respect to school nurses dental I think that three Committee of salaries to undertake who will be expected of school children.
examination there is a recommendation additional School Nurses should be em­ ployed, tion that these School Nurses have to take a course of three years at the Public Hos­ pital in order to obtain a Nurse's cate, and another year to qualify wives and then to undergo specialised training $48 per month.

offers no encouragement to a woman to undergo such lengthy and I know that in the exacting United States most midwifery work is done by physicians.
in work, and if midwives are entrusted this Colony with work which is done by physicians we should give them alaries ate with the responsibilities bear.

Consequently salaries of Health Visitors Appendix "E" be increased per month.

commensur­ they have to the I propose that I do not think such an increase in the United States I think It is very serious training.

set out in by $5 or $10 a salary of of these institutions.

in the country districts, 959 Health Services 30 APRIL, 1948.

Committee 960 Report.


� midwife, for quite a while.

so that the shortage will continue finances, in view of the very would impose too great a strain on the Colony's small number of Health Visitors.

I think it would act as a stimulus to the right type of woman to take up nursing as a profession .

!.

Catholic .

districts patients of free treat­ As regards who are able to I heartily The Council but in certain themselves?
which very carefully support the proposal free, or are we going to try to pay the most.

That creates but ·you have never f, there is too much work for The result is that they re­ Well, there is Birth, Bene­ was started in the country is very unsat­ situation We are told that midwives are in the country by Government areas with large the question ment, there are two sides of the picture.
Are we going to try to render all these services so improve the people's economic condi­ tion that they would be able to pay for those services will have to consider method it is going to adopt.

Your Excel­ lency remarked that you have heard of many burial societies heard of a birth society.

one in the City-the fit and Burial Society-which about a year and a half ago, and I think it is domg very well.

Perhaps the other burial societies to in­ clude birth in their provisions.

by hon.
by hon.

Members that Government should take over the midwives where the present isfactory.

subsidised districts, populations the midwives.

sort to choosing pay cash and hardship among people who have not the ready cash.

During my last visit to Port Mourant I was told that a patient sent for a midwife who demanded cash before she attended.

but of midwives difficult if the Director says of Medical Services all the time, because in some cases she they are not there there is nothing I can may be defrauded.
On the other hand it do about it.

I certainly is a very urgent and serious business in as possible which there is no waiting.

I feel that districts, Government cient to encourage munity a great service country districts dising midwives in the country districts have to vote a highe1· it employed them in such numbers as it att,:active would serve the· population districts districts of the Colony.
I think it would who r.eed them be a good thing, especially great need in this Colony for an increased population.
British Guiana needs increased tion so as to be able to develop the re­ sources be a good thing if Government the policy of employing midwives country distric think that as soon they should be placed in the and if $15 per month 1s not suffi­ them to remain in the then the Council would :mm so &s tu make to them to remain in the to be of se1 vice to Lile· people We are always hearing that popula­ at has been well re­ I too am worried about the shortage for a midwife to work for credit adopted in the and concli tions of service would be doing the com­ may be encouraged the improvement We must realise and I think it would in the various of the Colony, in view of the if instead of subsi­ that it is t. of these: three services, did not go far enough, but The COLONIAL TREASURER: The main purpose of the report and of the of motion is, of course, the salaries of Health Visitors and I am glad to see that that portion least of the objective ceived by those Members who have spoken In fact one Member thought that the provision the hon.
Member for Essequibo Lee), initiated aspect which has not been dealt with very and that is the ques­ fully in the report, tion of subsidised midwives.

criticism in regard to what he has said, except to remark that he spoke of the "poor man" with regard to birth, and I do not know whether he really accepts the view that it is the man who suffers most and not the woman.

However, was followed a discussion River (Mr.

I have no he by the hon.

Member for on a particular on a fixed basis of remuneration.
Mr. FERNANDES: I entirely agree to place all Health in of with the proposal Visitors of midwives, As regards the shortage I asked the Director Finance Committee Medical the Rose Hall situa­ Services about tion, and he told us quite bluntly that of midwives the shortage districts was something him a lot of worry.

The midwives not there, and steps were being taken to get as many trained as possible.
I dare­ say that it takes some time to train a in the various which was causing were ' 961 Eeaith Services tEGistATiVE CouNtrt.Committee Report.

962 and by Eastern Demernra (Mr. Debidin), Mr. Farnum who did emphasise the difficulty of the shortage wives and the unsatisfactory districts the country at the moment.
That upon in the report was remarked situation of the Committee which states quite clearly of nurse-mid­ position in : .. "The situation in regard to mid­ is un­ in the districts It is the policy of the wifery services satisfactory.

Infant Welfare and Maternity to subsidise districts relatively practice independent League midwives only in those where the population and where private s'parse, to maintain is insufficient practising midwife."
is an � pro- The report of the Committee ceeds to state: will be taken up seriously I do not think issue altogether.

question separate I need say much more.

I repeat that I am very glad that this motion has the com­ mendation of Members of the Council.

as a Motion carried.

QUARANTINE (AMENDMENT) REGULA­ TIONS, 1948.

I beg The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: to rnove: That, as provided 4 of the Quarantine (No.
23 0£ 1946) this Council the Quarantine tions, 1948, which were made by the Governor March, 1948. under section 194{.J Ordinance confirms Regula­ in Council on the 23rd ot (Amendment) for mid­ "With the present policy of the Medical Board of accepting wifery training only graduate the low remuneration of a practising .
midwife does not appeal to the younger nurses who ser­ prefer to remain in Government vice as hospital and midwives nurses, are not coming forward to replace those who are dropping and hard life nurses, out."

This situation is definitely unsatis­ has to be done and something gone in to.

If we are factory, about it, but I do suggest that it should be very carefully going to adopt the free service policy, which I believe Great Britain, member that a social would cost a large sum of money.
is now being adopted in then Members must re­ service of that order These Regulations correct certain 5 of the Q.uarantine errors which appear in the to the which are an appendix Ordinance of 1946, and they for the making of Rules under Ordinance prescribing typographical Regulations Quarantine also provide by section the Quarantine the charges to be made for visits under the Regulation Officer are considered that this motion be favourably sidered of Shipping by a Health These Rules and I ask con­ Officer.
to be necessary by this Council.

Authority, or Visiting The COLONIAL SECRETARY sec­ on<j.ed.

Motion carried.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Ser­ BILLS - FIRST READING.

vices are free in Great Britain but every­ body subscribes out at £15 per head.

to it.
I think it works On the motion of the ATTORNEY­ GENERAL seconded SECRETARY, the following read the first time :- by the COLONIAL Bills were The COLONIAL TREASURER: In A Bill intituled "An Ordinance to for the partition areas of land, for the re-allot­ are considering make special of certain of that description throughout ment of holding therein, titles tion thereof provision thereto, free the they must bear in mind that any case, if Members service countryside the cost is going to be very heavy indeed.
If we are going to have social service that order we must increase our income before we can do it.

We have to pay for it, and I do suggest easy matter to put forward a proposition like that until we know how we.

are going to manage it.

I suppose that the matter is very much in the minds of hon.

·Mem­ bers, and I hope that at an early date the that it is not quite an of and to render the occupa­ more beneficial."
to and re­ lands partition to peti­ with respect con­ and for purposes "An Ordinance A Bill intituled amend the district allotment ordinance tions and appeals, nected with the matters A Bill intituled "An Ordinance ther to amended the motor vehicles road traffic ordinance, to the licensing cars."

of motor cars and hire fur­ and 1940, with respect aforesaid."

for' the issue of 963 Remission of 30 APRIL, 1948.

Rum Duty.
Rum Duty.

964 during transportation fur­ "" erected in Council was Ordinance of the spirit with respect Regulatiorn to the standard "An ordinance "An ordinance were passed under 1945.

Under those films in premises A Bill intituled A Bill intituled were Amend­ A Bill intituled there was a good deal of guage.

They had to take for the provisional by the Commissioner of non-inflammable hundred and forty-one."
of premises and to tc (offences) fur­ "An Ordinance ordi­ in respect or completed of the' ordi­ sub for approved of after or in course on the eight day of March, and the Customs Bond.

in those circumstances amend the summary jurisdiction ordinance court of summary jurisdiction punishment."
corpor'al ther' to amend the rent restriction nance, 1941, with respect rent c,f nremises of erection nineteen of the correct and use what they could get, and as a consequence leakage from the distillery As a concession special ther to amend the cinematograph ordi­ the Defence Acts.
Those Regulations nance by providing the Defence (Spirits grant of licences not constructed ment) Regulations, exempt from the provisions the Governor Regulations nance exhibitions to grant a remission empowered of duty standard in suitable cases where the Governor such purposes Police."

Council was satisfied was unavoidable, a proportion which would ordinarii the related Ordinance.
this : that with the enactment Defence Act under which those Regula­ tions were made, the Regulations selves ceased to have effect.

That occurred on February 24.

1946, but it escaped notice, con­ and Government tinued to act under these Regulations.
24, During that period - frcm February 1946, up to the end of last year - Govern­ remission ment actually authorised in respect duty of a total of $2,411.75 438.5 proof gallons of rum which had been lest in this way, and for that reason this motion is intended to ask the Council to give covering of duty authorised Council under Regulations effect under that Ordinance.

amend the juvenile offenders 1931, by abolishing the power of a court to impose corporal on a child or young person."
amend the whipping ance with respect to its application tc children ordinance punishment."

A Bill intituled "An Ordinance that the leakage or to grant remission of � of the duty in excess of that :v be granted under amend the intoxicating ordinance liquor licensing to hotel licences."

amend the prisons to corporal to ordin­ and flogging A Bill intituled "An ordinance A Bill intituled "An ordinance to crdinance, in which we1'e in and young persons."
A Bill intituled of this remission REMISSION OF RUM DUTY.

by the Governor "An ordinance is of the The position with 1"espect punishment with respect to the oower of a approval to impose of of them­ in to to The COLONIAL TREASURER: I beg to move: to His Message "That.

with reference the Governor's of the remission of of rum at the Excellency No.

7 of the 16th March.


1948. this Council app:;:oves duty on 68 proof gallons rate of $6 per gallon lost through leakage from defective and further of duty totalling of 438.5 proof gallons the Governor to 24th February, cause".
of the remission in res'oect by in Council subsequent 1946, for the same authorised $2,411.75 containers, · approves the remission is being sought to make that re­ The motion itself, The second object of the motion is to authorise of duty on 68 gal­ lons of rum which had been lost in the year 1947.

That has not yet been paid and approval mission.

beer, drafted covers two things-one ment has done ultra.

approval gallons tive containers.

Consequently, move an amendment.


a1ppears on the Order wtihout recognising of which Govern­ vires, and specific of duty on 68 lost through leakage from defec­ I propose to The motion as it apparently has for the remission Paper reads:- that it In Message No.

7 of the 16th of March Members had very great difficulty this matter is fully explained.

will recall that duririg tillers proper packages proof spirit.
seasoned and containers for high They could not get properly dis­ the war spirit in securing wood, nor could they get metal "That.

with reference to His Excel­ Message No.

7 of the l.ency the Governor's 16th March, 1948, this Council approves of the remission lc-ns of rum at the rate of $6 per gallon lost through leakage from defective tainers."

of duty on 68 Proof gal­ con­ 965 Liquor Licensing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Amdt.)

Bill.
(Amdt.)

Bill.

966 I propose to 1nove as an amendment of the following words:- the addition conded .

The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ "and further of the remission aoor'cves of duty totalling-$2,411.75 in resoect by the Governor 438.5 gallons authorised in Council subsequent to 24th February, 1946, for the same cause."

of That, in effect, is the main portion of Your Excellency's have been embodied in the motion.

I move the moticn with that amendment.

Message and should ,) : The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.
Motion put and agreed to.

was not being created.

Mr. DEBIDIN: F1"om the time I saw this motion I began to wonder whether a precedent trying to find out from the Colonial Treasurer's provision and another whether this duty was pre-paid whether it is to be collected.
thing I wanted to know was or remarks whether there is any for the r'emission of this duty, I was The COLONIAL TREASURER: To As regards the statutory due to the allowance which has to be used at the law does make a certain and it goes a little for leakage answer ihe la�i part first I would say and that the duty is, of course, pre-paid approval of that is why they are seeking the remission.
position, allowance further and makes an extra allowance, but this is a special type of container proper type the prese�t cannot be obtained.

The distiller be blamed if he removes his package from the distillery no fault of his own, some of the :rum is lost and does not enter the Customs.

In other words, it would be unfair to recover revenue on rum that does not enter the Customs and does not go into consump­ tion.
to the Customs and through time because the cannot INTOXICATING LIQUOR LICENSING (AMENDMENT) BILL.

I beg The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Rules to move that the relevant and Orders be suspended following stages:- to enable the Bili" to be taken through all its Standing "A Bill intituled amend the Intoxicating Ordinance with respect Liquor Licensing to he-tel licences."

"An Ordinance to Question put and agreed tc,.


The ATTORNEY GENERAL: In this Board ,�rihch '.Vith his application in the foliowing cannot oe issued imlil the first day can only be made for at the General Annual Meeting of the Intoxicating Meet·ing is held_.

and if the If to open a hotel, say in the Colony application a hotel iicence Licensing Liquor Licensing takes place late every year - around November.

a person wants month of March, or April or May, he cannot get a hotel licence at once.
He 1N ould have to wait until the General Annual Licensing he is successful iicence of Januar�, other countries is definitely for a hotel licence District holds an Annual District General Meeting, but in October or November of each year the Board is requireci ting Liquor Licensing what are called transfer less than two and not more than four transfer hotel iicence can be heard and determined at any such transfer 20 of the Intoxica­ Ordinance sessions, are to be in respect it is not so; in Trinidad not so; a person can apply at any time.
The Board in this Colony to hold and those of not but no application year.

In it unoer sect10n transfe!· licences, Licensing Licensing session.
sessions for a The object of this Bill is two-fold; for a sess10n to provide that an application f.rstly, hotel licence under the Intoxicatinf,( may be made Ordinance Liquor Licensing at any and determined and considered to provide and, see:ondly, transfer that until such an application can be heard and determmed the Governor in to grant a be erripowered Council may - a very temporary - hotel temporary and it would be for the person in licence, 1s granted whose favour such a licence make a further to tne District Licensing Board either c1t the transfer session Annual Licensing Meeting, then the temporary cease and determine.
applicant practicable General Annual Licensin the temporary The object of this temporary is refused hotel licence would if the Further, does not appiy at the next or at the next session transfer then g Meeting, would lapse.

licence and if the apphcat10n or at the General application hotel licence to is --' 967 liquor Licensing 30 APRIL, 1948.

(Amdt.)

Bill.

968 1s made to the District Board.


There is no intention the wisdom or otnei-wise that it should be given until a proper application Licensing substituting the Governor District provided in this Biil - in sub-claus e (5) of the new clause 22B that:- of of in Council for that of the Licensing Bo&.rd.
It is specifically that a "(5) The circumstance tem,orary hotel licence is issued of certain under this section in respect premises, shall not be used in support oi: an appiication made to the board, at its general for the grant ing or a transfer of a certificate for the issue of a hotel licence in respect of the said premises."
meet­ annuai licensing session, as a fresh application, approved m Councii has already Licensing and that it should be The object of putting in this sub­ clause is this: Nooody would be able to teli the District Board that the Governor of his ac1plication granted by the Board.
An�, application made to the Board under the Ordinance has to be considered and the circumstance in Council has granted a temporary is not to be considered iicence in favour of the applicant is a saieguard who would have the right to oppose; wouid havo:: a right to do so as soon as the application comes in the usual way before the District Board.

I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time as being at all.
There that the Governor in the Ordinance Licensing for people they The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.

Mr. ROTH: I think this Bill is very and I industry timely indeed.

It wouid be of great assistance to the tourist am wondering whether certain hon.

Members who have frowned upon the tourist industry realise that.
The Com­ industry le for the tourist mittee responsib feels that why we cannot encourage the long-term tourist we can do a good business the round-trip regards one; every fortnight to turn down about 20 applications there are bookings Board has and up to the end of the tourist.

hotel accommodation what is known as as in encouraging The position is a serious the Tourist r as the Attorney General for 'Nill be accommodation at a new hotel, but la,vs they would not be year.
There another 28 visitors nnder the existing there until next able to occupy quarters January, has pointed out.

If this Bill is passed the hotel would be able to accommodate 28 _persons and later on there will be an Some time ago •increase the Tourist Committee requested ment to pass a similar ment did not look favourably snggestion on behalf of the Tourist congratulate this forward.

It v.rould rinancial implications Govern­ Bill but Govern­ have very good for the Colony.
at that time therefore, to fifty-four.

Bureau, I desire to Government for bringing '· upon the t.:.

Mr. DEBIDIN: I never anticipated e along proper Constitu­ and I wonder, whether I did not come I did ammunition.

the blame completely as a whole is that we wouid have reached this Bill today and.

consequently., with the necessary not oppose the motion for the second reading because I desire to make some I would like to point out that comments.
there has been a complete volte face on the part of the Attorney General as regards this Bill he would shoulder or whether Government behind the matter.

With all due deferenc to the hon.

Member who has just taken his seat, I say that I am against the spirit of this Bill.

I am in favour of a tourist industry, is to be over­ but if a principle come this would not enable us to do so.

We should proceed tional lines and unde-r conditions which in this would not lead to suspicion Council.
unfortunat licence there was a slight error O'f oversight-the application time-the application the District c·ase there was no objection shop from the time of its inception-12 with long years ago-and, in accordance custom in the past, a petition the Governor oversight enabling to get the licence.
taken to the Governor then Acting Colonial Secretary me - I think it did go to the Governor- to permit the person was The petition and the in Council During last year there was an e person who applied for a be cured by the passing Ordinance did not go before Board.
In that was sent to that the · of an was not put in at the correct in Council asking shop and just because to the spirit Licensing for a spirit informed me that he had dealt wanted to have his spirit 969 Liquor Licensing LEGISLATIVE but he informed with the matter.
The opinion of the was sought and the Attorney-General effect of that opinion was that if the petitioner shop for the •Nhole of that open for business year he had to come by way of a private Bill in the Legislative decision precedent-several - to show that simiiar had been cured by legislation by Government.

Council.

there was in the past difficulties initiated was Teached although instances That 't .)

·' COUNCIL.

(Amdt.)

BiU.


970 goes before the Governor application in some member of that body might Council sa�, that the premises a temporary refused.

licence and it might be are not fit to have of the sort.

The The PRESIDENT: I mnst protest that the Governor has the power under any suggestion does anything in Council against in Council Governor the law and the first thing it does is to make proper investiP;ations.
Memher is sug_e;esting that because one member of the Governor in Council says that a particular licence take that vie\,,, Governor in Co• mcil does not decide rnatters place is not fit for a If the hon.

has drawn such an inference shop.

The in that wa,'.

The PRESIDENT: That is how I Mr. DEBIDIN: I am sorry Your 'in Mr. DEBIDIN: If the Governor however, and did not think Excellenc�, from rny remarks.

Ordinance for anyone to cure such an would be.


It would appear people are in a position the Governor in Council would The he is mistaken.

them.

If the hon.

Member t1nderstand did not mean that I am pleased to hear it.
such a standing It is known that a penalty to $100 as the case may be -i s attached the bringing Bill, and I indi­ of a private cated that the amount would have been paid by the owner of the spirit previous holder of the post of Attorney­ in the matter General whom I consulted wenl so far as to tell me that there should be a standing which should make it possible oversight.

He left the Colony, the Acting Attorney-General it fit io follow that course.
Those hon Members v.rho are lawyers would appre­ ciate how beneficial Ordinance to that if certain carry a matter to the Executive· Council they can get what they want done, and I say that this Bill is going tu create a wrong The matter to which I have impression.

referred was shelved and today ,-ve have a new Bill which is undoubtedi�, intended to enable a certain hotel right away being put through as a public Biil.
It is true that it seeks to make provision for some other things •¥hich might be possible, but behind it all there is a special the Governor to grant temporary the principle.

a dangerous the Governor to a hotei, ho•Never be and however much it might not be intended the Board when it sits at a transfer Colony is so small that anything anybody is always known by others.

Let us take the case of an ordinary or premises who has a very bad character if his which are not in a fit condition; licence.
got the impression I ,,,ould of it.

SU!U!,est Council grants a temporary for a licence hotel and it goes into operation, when the O'vner's appliration goes before the Licensing is taken if is not granted people the application would say thai it was because the hotel i)elon_ged to Mr. X that the Governor Council discriminated in granting temporar:,, Excellency p1entioned.

or outside of the Governor in whom we can placE: a11y reliance at all.
As far as I know we have in them and a· great amount of confidence I have no complaint but I can criticise which affect involved principle like to know.

In section Intoxicating Liquor Licensing Chapter 107, there are salutary and there is a number of grounds on which an a_!

)plication Apart from that there is the question a person resid- notice being given where in the I am sorry Your you have the public.
What is the in this matter-I 12 (1) of the in Council grants a licence temporary I am against As I have already stated.

in that respect, and measures not, in this Council that the members it sa�•s that shall have power Board and evidence tltis or annual session, is being created.

may be refused.

in Conncil are not men to prejudice privilege.


individual principles pr\;!cedent in Council to operate Although a licence it might done by would If of � Ordinance , provisions 971 Liquor Licensing 30 APRIL, 1948.

(Amdt.)

Bill.

972 hood might have of the iicence.

to the granting to grant a temporary licence Hov.r are we to know that there is one of principle and I do in the manner in which it is at ing in the neighbour objection The question not believe proposed present.

wouid not he persons in lhe.


neighbour­ hood with strnng objections against the granting of such a licence?

measure will certainly Board and also emiJarrass 1,rietor after the temporary the necessary installed but it would he possible to go to the Licensing Board and say that the hotel should be closed down.
I think-this prejudice the the very pro- equipment would be for the hotel to go into operation, of ihe hotel because immediately for an oi)jector is granted all licence but when it goes further and not more than four in one that power should be given to the besides allowing for you would find that an n for a hotel licence to be posted up and advertising Gazetie so that opposition Board can have at least two transfer sessions i year.
If you divide a year of twelve months into four transfer sessions the annual general session, notices in tne Official can be entered, a p p 1 i c a t i o can be dealt with at any time without undue delay.

I therefore agree ( with the hon.

Member and the Tourist Bureact Board to gant hotel licences at transfer '.

sessions, than that to confer that power on the Governor in Councii will it not be overriding the power of the Board in some way or other?
The Board is there to take evidence, weigh the facts, the applicant, evidence and which the Governor in Council may not or will before them uniess proper enquiries were made.

Sometimes may not ;Je a convicted character, but there are instances police methods have found out and evi­ dence led before the Board that the appli­ cant is not a proper person to be granted a .

'i.otel to hear the opposition, the character etc., which will be led in or of the highest the applicant licence.
criminal consider not have where of Mr. ,DEBIDIN: It would mean addi­ is a sess10ns.

fer licences concession.

do not know it will be wiser when he makes application in view of the fact sessions, to have dealt with at the I think that It would then enoue;h time to compl:,, and this Ordinance.

tional evidence to the Board.

I 'Nould say it might be a very good compromise.


that you have tr'ansfer applications transfer tremendous give an individual with the Regulations I certainly in the circumstances tive Council granling to hotels.

tive, if the hotei referred Nominated If there is a shorta_ge of rooms there is nothing to prevent special legislation being brought forward I do not know, but so far as section 22B is concerned I do not a_gree.
It will make fish of one and fowl of another, and in this a great principle is involved.

to by the hon.

Member, Mr. Roth, exists.

to have the Execu­ temporary I would give that as an alterna­ to give that right.

iicences at its incention hacl of three Liquor Ordinance or refuse licences Mr. LEE: I view this matter in and I desire to express it another light, in this wa�r.
The Intoxicating Licensing provided a moderate Board Magistrates to sit and hear evidence and to grant for hotels, shops or taverns, and for ari appeal to the Supreme Court whereby a Judge or the Judges can override a matter of law bllt not on the facts.

Therefore.

that the Ordinance provided partial The Ordinance Your Excellency further and said the their decision ,.

'lent spirit will see for an im­ only on Board to grant or refuse licences.
I therefore appeal to Your Ex­ the the applica­ to consider 27 of the Ordinance, and Your Excellency in this matter.

If you read Chapter 107, licence can cellency section you wouid see that provisional be granted for a hotel, a tavern or a spirit shop.
If a hotel is in course of construc­ tion, on the plan of construction o,Nner can apply to the Board for a pro'!isional licence, can direct the Board through the Attorney-General tion at a transfer session i.he exigencies required facts if it is to be a proper hotel, as I hope there will be proper hotels established to meet the tourist trade, refuse to grant a temporary licence provided the application advertised entered against it.

The people in the particular tion.


In order to preserve certain residential places which may become famous as an so as to meet of the case.

All the would be stated and, I feel, or provisional was could be area have the right of opposi­ areas in Georgetown so that opposition no Board would or some 973 Li.quor Lkensing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Amdt.)

Bill.

974 George­ and Essequibo.


for people visiting being use for the gr.anting proper hotels in order to encourage the Tourist Trade as wen as to afford good accommodation town from the Corentyne No Member woull.d object to the transfer sessions hotel Licences, there is no need for the Executive exe:rc1sing temporary already been Ordinance granted on application and if that is provided Council its descretion hotel licences.

iicences to be to the Board.


for provisional made in the Principal in granting Pr-0vision has of The CHAIRMAN: I may point out to the hon.

Member that subsection (2)· of section 27 says : grant shall not be of until declared to be final made after by the Board annual meeting or trans­ The declaration shall be that the in "A provisional any validity by an order of the Board notice given as required at a general fer sessi-0ns.
made if the Board is satisfied premises have been completed accordance and when a declaration made the procedure scribed in section Ordinance, tions, shall apply".

and forms pre­ nineteen has been of this with the plans aforesaid, with the necessary varia­ .

:i .'

attraction opposition is provided.

to tourists, the right of What I am trying to 'point out is this: power to to it licence session If you have to the owner has for licences.
of giving absolute of the power of the, at all, because whilst until the completion with the annual general I feel that if you consider for three weeks and to wait days for any opposition, at a session of the Board for a The principle this Board was enacted by this Council, that four transfer and it was considered sessions prov1ae five periods in a year for applications advertise for fourteen.
it would be seen that it does not need the exercise Governor in Council to grant any temporary licence the hotel is being erected the right to submit his application transfer provisional of the hotel when application will be niade for the ordinary licence which will take at least ten weeks for that licence be granted.
in that light, you would find that this Ordinance by giving power to the in Council Governor licence you are creating precedent discretion I do not say that the Board cannot refuse after the Governor to grant the licence in Council has granted a temporary licence, the Executive Council, comprised of the Head of the Administration, advisers in its wisdom grants Legislative it would be known a temporary to the members of the Board and it would them.
Therefore influence Youi· Excellency continue in the matter as provided by the They have Ordinance placed before the facts and the opposition can only be them, and their decision ·ove·r--ridden tion of law.

but human nature is such that if as it is his a sort of power or whereby that absolute of the Board would Council, licence and certain Members of this that the Board should from its inception.

to grant a temporary by the Judiciary discretion to exercise be removed.
transfer absolute I appeal to on a ques­ Mr. LEE: That will be changed.

are only granted at the meeting, for the transfer These licences annual licensing providing grant a provisional completed to if a hotel is not before the annual session.

but now we are sessions licence The CHAIRMAN: The fact is that cannot be used until licence provisional it has been confirmed at some ti.me or other.

It does not meet the case of an as far as I see it.

emergency Mr. LEE: It can be qone with four sessions a year.
Whoever advised this has not advised in its best interest, and Government wherever in this Bill that power of by granting the Governor in Council.

it should be of this taken out.

I feel sure all Members that there is dire need for Council agree is to be exercised a licence The CHAIRMAN: That is.a different licence thing.

A provisional but it has to be confirmed licensing permitted can be issued, at the annual meeting before you are to use it.
Mr. FERNANDES: I would like to congratulate Government this on bringing 973 Liqv,or Licensing 30 APRIL, 1948.

(Amdt.)

BiLL 976 thereby bringing British I I have listened in Council is not impartial.

Bill fOTward, Guiana in line with the more progressive countries.

to the two hon.

Members who spoke last, and I have heard quite a lot about the impartial Board which has been set up.

I do not know if the last speaker feels that the }overnor feel it is a step that should have been taken long ago.
In corinection with the case which the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara brought forward, a hotel and so I will not say anything about the law being made for one and not for the other.

The question of obtaining a provisional provisional start operating tion is finished.

a better chance of obtaining when i.he right time comes along.
I do not foresee any difficulty being experienced through this Bill if it is put through as it is, and I am going to support does not allow you to a hotel when the construc­ It only means you have licence means nothing.

it wholeheartedly.

or hardship the licence that was not licence A and of the premises of the ap•Jlicant (.

the want of suitability or the cha,racter lastly public opposition.

find puhlic opposition yon find opposition I do not think, Sir, the Authorities.
Governor in Council will have the same opportunity facts and examining done by the Licensing of going into all.

those them as will be Board.

You invariably and frequenlly by the Police (.

-.

which, There is no doubt whatever that the in Council will discharge Governor their but duties honestly and honourably, they will not be in possession of the be given before the facts which will In tho>e circumstances Magistrates.
and account that it particularly taking into licence will be only a temporary as Your Excellencv suggests, may rightly not iJe upheld by the Licensing Board, and that wiil be after the whole matiet· has been of the hotel or licenced gone into and after considerable expense entirely on the had been made dependent action of the Governor in Council in graniing the temporary will bP taken as ,1 foregone that the Licensing licence, Council whether it would not be better to have the Licensing Board at the transfer session grant these licences instead of imposing that duty on the Governor in Council.
licence whir.h premises Dr. JAGAN: I am in agreement with I Ca1Jt.

:111d as I see iu Council of the annual conclusion Boarr.l will confirm the \\ that may iJe raised wi,cn and human nat11re being what imagine that the COGHLAN: Y0t1t HlC!
'.ellency, have sat as Chairman ol the .Licensing Board on many occasions, from this Bill the Govenur Sir, I would ask this honourable can grant temporary hotel lice1LE, to consider is a question it comes to the granting licence, it is, I would m:vself Chairman and members of the Licensing ·Board would to some extent be influenced by the fact that the Governor in Council ; licence.

had granted a temporar: As people.
the result of that, a great many who would be calculating on tbe fact that they would succeed in getting licence Board, would from the Licensing go to considerable their premises people, depending ing of the licence the matter goes before Board the firs't thing that the Cbairman what considers is the needs of tbe people, is the population of that area, the dis­ tance of the nearest licensed from the proposed he will consider whether it is a locality premises, it can be under proper police supervision, if there is police opposition the gen�l"al tbat is, that opportunity individuals licence wait until, as the hon.
the Attorney­ General said, October or November to be able to get a licence.

to the various Members who have spoken, I am somewhat in a,greement with them when they say that they do of not see the necessity in a )Jrovisional licence Council since the Ordinance already for the holding provides transfer sessions-at more than four in a year.

I think that any application can for a hotel licence be considered readily once every three months.

lency may site.
lency may site.

The next thing is the suitahility for the granting by the Governor entirely by the Board.

When by the Board of least two and not direct or an Order in Council so that they may not have to during the year to secure a fit as hotels to accomodate expense in makinr: if the BoaTd meets Your Excel­ But after listening the Licensing should be given of this Bill and princioie of the where on the grant­ due either to premises the .> :-, v-,1hereby 977 Liqu0r Licensing LEGISLATIVE CoUNCH,, (Amdt.)
Bill.

978 sessions made that there be at least four transfer in a year, and in that way you will have the Board meeting once every threemonth s and the hearing of any new application will be provided for.

of the lower income group.

in which I am interested, However, there is another aspect of in or rebuilt who can afford in Georgetown.
get them and no provision those of the lower incmne We are all experienced rents are the ones mac1.e for What I find in the City of is that there oi the lo'¥er income grouo No sooner than those houses this situation and that is the housing situation especially quite aware of the difficuity b:v people who are trying to get houses, especiallv groLl').

Georgetown are certain uersons who 1JUrchase 1Jl'Operties which persons are living.
are purchased they are completely in some cases, and renovated higher rents are demanded ,vith the result that those people to pay blackmarket '-'.

'ho those persons What I am afraid of in so far as it this Bill, these hotels ,.,_,m be affects probably made from buildings already in existence presently fear.

I am in great sympathy with the T.ourist Trade.

What I am afraid of is, if honses already are to be converted mean that there would be further difficulty is concerned.
this Bill is concerned, because I think most Members have in mind that hotel which is now being constructed in Camp Street.

I think this Bill is attempting to nrovide a licence hotel is being converted house which was formerly persons.

which are and which are in occupation into hotels, so far as the housim� situation from o dwelling by by people it.

,vould housing people.

That That is m�, fear so far as for that hotel, and that occupied is my Mr. ROTH: To a point of explana­ tion!
It ,.vas a boarding house.

Board to give no licence to a dwellin.e: house into a new would 1ike the Governor in Council or the Licensing an,,one who has conv'erted house or a boarding hotel.

It a new hotel is built I feel opport:.mity should be given to the owner to oi:Ji.ain a iicence as soon as possfole, and that can be done at the transfer session of the Board.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Sir, sessions 20 of because the session I suggest year.
As a matter a year you session every Board ma�, appoint to be held during to the fact that section makes provision Licensing sessions year, but the Board is not many hon.

Members of this Council have relerred the Ordinance a District four transfer the folJo,'!ing bound to appoint fom transfer durin� the foilowing of fact, the Board for the County of Demerara has not done so.
I shouid point· ont to this Council that the next transfer the 27th of Juiy-three Therefore deal with this Bill on the facts as the�• exist and noG on facts which t,hey beiieve ought to have existed, next transfer session will not he until Jui�-.

It is all ver�, well to say if there were fonr transfer sessions ,vould have a transfer three months, but four transfer have not been appointed.

I have been a member.

of that Board from the year 1932 until I deserted act as a Juctr:e to be a !

'1ember.
'1ember.

I was a prominent member of the Board appointed As a matter of fact I was appointed Magistrate especially being a member of the Licensing I am rather pained to learn that a Dis­ trict Licensing what is said so clearly grant an application in granting an application because the Governor in Council has granted a .v licence.

It is clearly set i.emporar cto,.vn in the Ordinance that it is not to be a circumstance to be taken into account in considering Perhaps some hon.
Members are think­ ing of another Ordinance passed in 1930-the Intoxicating Licensing under which it is provided and I automatically ceased Board would, despite or be prejudiced for the purpose of it when I went to Ordinance, No.

3 of 1930 - by name.

Board.

that "the which was Liquor a sessions Dr. JAGAN: If it was a boarding that meets the house ther, probabl�• situation.
I do not kno,.., who were there would continue, as in that case it would be full to capacity and I do not see how it could take care of tourists.

I There is another difficulty.

if the boarders 'Hill not take place until months hence.

that Members shouid in the subsection, an application.

979 Liquor Licensing 30 APRliL, 1948.

(Amdt.)

Bill.
(Amdt.)

Bill.

980- shop licence for the issue of a cir a hotel licence for defined in such Governor may by order direct a Board not to entertain for the any application grant of a certificate spirit premises in any locality Order unless and until the number of holders licences less than the number specified in such order."

of spirit for premises shop licences and hotel in such !oca1ity is special or the following session, month.

transfer say next month Mr. LEE: To a point of correction.

to direct that.
to direct that.

What I I did not say that the Governor has pow'er at present said v-1as that the Ordinance two and not more than four transfer sessions, request the Board to have four transfer sessions situation.

to meet the exigencies and the Governor provides of the i,, couid certainly for hotel licence.
Where an Order is made under the Board 5 of that Ordinance for a hotel that the section has to comply 'Nith it, but in the case oi states that the this Bill it definitely Boa1·d shall not take into consideration in snpport of an application licence the circumstance Governor in .Council temporary mnst presume that the membe1:s District the law and have taken an oath to be feariess without fear and to do justice or favour.
They are responsible bers of the commnnity, think it is nice for Members of this Council to say that those gentlemen would fail to observe the clear and specific directions has ,Franted After a11 one of the Boards are learned in in the Statute.

Licensing and I ·do dot mem­ a The or require sessions.

At the annl\al the Board to hold What I am say­ has not got that its The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: r; hon.

Member is saying that Government can request four transfer ing is that the Governor power at all.
The Board exercises meeting at the annual licensing judgment which takes place in the month of October in each year.

meeting which took place in October last year foe Board exercised discretion ance in a certain may arise subsequent it may very well be that instead two transJier said i.hat they But a District nmnber of transfer the annual g1eeting fore I suggest deal with this matter on the facts as they really exist.
s'hoLL1d Board cannot add to the at this year it may be have many its judgment and 20 of the Ordin­ to that under which under section sessions of having more.

There­ session appointed in October.

that hon.

Members should way, but circumstances Some hon.

Members have suggested and at any specific in Council, through the Attorney­ has more power than it has power to direct a Licensing povver to be given to and it sets out the circumstances it.
The Governor that the Governor; General, Board to hard four sessions time.

It seems to me that a great number of people have the id�a �.hat Government really has.

We are asking in this Bill for certain the Governor with clarity he can exercise Licensing power to mder any District sessions, Board to hold four transfer nor has the Attorney-General.

Yet we find he hon.
Yet we find he hon.

Memb"er for Essequibo (Mr. Lee), who is a legal practitioner has appeared at several Board, suggesting that po,Ner, for the issue of a temporary hotel liceuce.

The Governor has not got that power.

In fact there is no power in any person to direct the District the County of Demerara to hold a River and of the that the Governor has and that there is no need in which has no Licensing sessions Board for I will deal now with certain 0f the I amount dilemma Demerara (Mr. Debidin).
true that Orcl.in­ by Government observations made by the hon.

Member for Eastei;n must say that I have a certain of sympathy in the unfortunate in which his client was placed in relation to the matter about which he con1piained, because it is perfectly ances were introduced matters on more than respect of simiiar one previous occasion, and the hon.

Member fel:t that his client should have been dealt with similarly.

considered thing that was not right.


It was felt that it was not right to have special Ordin­ ances mentioning applicants measures.

the hon.

Member that although.

passed as.

G o v e r nm e n t It was .however suggested But it was some­ wrong to perpetuate the names of particw.lar Govern- to in 981 Liqucw Licensing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Amdt.)

Bill.

982 wi�h the i.o be granted which is proposed That suggestion and the matter ended.
I have a 22B is merely a t�mporary I would like to point out that· the was not by the hon.

Member or his or unable to intro­ with this open of the next practicable trans­ and if the person to whom a licence ment was tmwilling duce a public measure dealinf particular point it was nevertheless to his client to seek to have a private Bill introduced.

,,rnrsued client, certain amount of 1sympathv hon.

Member.
Lawyers us1:.1aily rely upon precedents, that something more than one occasion feel that there is no reason why it should not be done like,..vise was considered ,ierpetuate licence under section licence which would expire at the conclusion fer session, tern>Jorary not make application rable transfer licence has been done before a District appoint four transfer would he verv little person going to the Governor at all for a temporar:v hotel licence, but at the present time the fact of the matter is that those transfer sessions have not in fact been appointed ::ear to the maxirm.Pn for bv section would cease.
In futur1:: years, if Licensing Board there at the next practi­ then the temporary If at future general annual licensing for any in Council were to sessions 20 oI the Ordinance.

and when they fmd that it was not proper i.o jtistification has i)een granted does they natural!

:' number provided unto them.

But it a District Board were a wrong.

session for this on ,J .... Motion !>Ut, and agreed to.

Bill read a scconcl time.


Board were to Licensing in subse­ time the e between each i.rans£er case, to grant a and if a licence were granted now ,.vouid to be sessions year, between· then it would sessions but at the present would like to have power meetings to aopoint four transfer held in the foliowing January and Octob�r, mean that there would be about two months' differenc and there would be in subse­ session, for the quent years very little necessity Governor in Council to exercise his i�owers 22B.
section under the proposed That is what will ha�pen in the fui.ure Licensing if a District appoint four transfer quent �,ears, Gov(>rnment in an appropriate temporaxy hotel licence, temporary ·that temporary hotel licence in three months' time if on application being made in accordarn.
:e Ordinance to the District Board that apolication would like to emphasise application Licensfr1g ground for objection circumstance· actually is heard might provide a application because very good ground for opposition, if it is represented Licensing Board that a hotei mie:ht be a nuisance to the neighbourhood, that the hotel is open would enable the person ob,jecting that it was a nuisance hood.
with the Licensing I that when an Board any person who has any can do so, and the is made to the District be open at the time when the that the hotel might the ciTcumstance to the neighbour­ to give positive wer2 refused.

to the District evidence expire COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE.

The Council resoived itself into to consider the Bili clause by Committee da11se.

Clause 2.-Irisertion 22A and 22B in the Principal of new sections Ordinance.

Mr. LEE: I wot1ld iike to move the 22B.


of section rleletion sessions of transfer Mi.

DEBIDIN: I think that some mie:ht be made in this Bill for at stated sa:v at fixed equ91 intervals provision ihe hoidine: periods, of thr(:e months.

I think that would be more convenient to all concerned, for the Board it is a matter of difficulty oi fixing the to decide the qt.1estion dates of sessions the fact that it hardly has any data upon which to act.

owing to because Whilst listening to the hon.


i.he I tho• wht that the Attorney-General need for more hotels_.

due to increased tourist traffic, would re4uire transfer sessions fixed intervals.

upon which the Board would act in the exercise I 'Nould cer­ tainly move an amendment that the being held more often and at That would be material of its discretion.

983 Liquor Licensing 30 APRIL, 1948, (Amdt.)

BiH.

984 once Board should fix its transfer sessions every three months.
The CHAIRMAN: I think you would have to move the insertion new clause.

of a Mr. DEBIDIN: It would have to be 22A (8).

The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

Mem­ ber's amendment would require thinking about.

a lot of would not have an opportunity for The hon.

Member for amendment.

River moved the deletion of Essequibo the clause.

The CHAIRMAN: I will put the question T.hat clause 2 stand part of the Bill."

If you do not agree with that you it.


may vote against Mr. DEBIDIN: If you put the dause now it would shut Ollt any furthE;r effort at amendment.

\, .

�� ,.. Mr. DEBIDIN: Uncler application 22A there is to be made.

prov1s10n for Whether section prov1s10n sessions months.

22B is deleted or not can be made for transfer to be fixed once in every three The CHAIRMAN: It certainly does.
Mr. DEBIDIN: Whereas if an amendment is allowed the Committee wollld have an opportunity on the and it might have some influence voting on the clause as a whole.

to debate it, The CHAIRMAN: You wollld then 20.

�llt across section Mr. DEBIDIN: I have submitted a tentative amendment to the Attorney General who may be able to put it into· shape for the next meetinr,:, nearly five o'clock.

as it is now The CHAIRMAN: Is that agreeable to the Council?

Mr. LEE: I will certainly support the hon.

Member.
Member.

The CHAIRMAN: should move that adjourned.

The hon.

Memb� ilie d�a� � The CHAIRMAN: The hon.

Mem- ber has not moved an amendment.

I will therefore that clause 2 stand part of the Bill.

put it to the Committee The Committee dividt::d aml voted:­ For-Messrs. Fernandes, Farnum, Thompson, Roth, Capt.

Coghlan, Dr. the Singh, the Colonial Treasu1,er, Attorne�r-General Se­ a�d the Coloni,al cretary-9.

Against-Messrs. Debidin and Lee-2.

Did not vote - Messrs. McDoom, Kendall, and Dr. Jagan-3.
Clause 2 carried.

Mr. DEBIDIN: My amendment is now out.

altogether.

Demerara (Mr. Debidin) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : T h e amendment which the hon.

Member for Eastern has been trying to formulate any difficulty read out an appropriate immediately, but the Main point is whether clause 2 should stand part of the Bill.

to me.

I think I could does not present amendment The CHAIRMAN: I will put clause 2 as amended by the hon.

Member for River, (Mr. Lee).


Essequibo Mr. DEBIDIN: I do not think that ·would be quite correct because we The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I like to suggest to the hon.

Mem­ '.

'lould Com­ ber that moving amendments in mittee is a very tricky business.

In the case of the hon.

Member I think if he had had his amendment ready his position would have been different.

amendment; that is why he was not able to produce one.
I must again take to emphasise difficulty thoughts Member suddenly there is in introducing in the Committee to Members the extreme second He had no aloud, and he was thinking gets a bright idea and stage.

If a this opportunity .. ..... the Comrnitte stage, The Connr.il resumed.

985 Liquor Licensing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Amdt.·) C } 8 Therefore, in the mat1er.

possi­ carefully consider they propose to move p11ts it up as an amenctment it might affect all kinds of things of which he has not thought.
•Nhenever ble Members sho11ld what amendments when a Bili reaches and if time allows they should a'pproach the A1;torney-General Ver:v often the Attorney-General can 1neet them oefoi•e the Bill gets into the C�mmittee in the case of stage.

Of course, ti1is particular· perha>Js bv being asked to take the second reading this aftel!­ noon, but generally have seen most serious mistakes in the Committee stage by the sudden introduction of amendments.
one Bili not so iong ago in the previot1s Council an amendment Cornmitte shortly afterwards <'ome back and introduce amendment because of that amendment made in the Committee was moved in the and the Biil •.vas passed.

had to Gov.ernment speaking I think I made Bili Members were taken by surprise stap;e. I feel that a ftirther sta,ge, In fact in Bm.

986 should that amendments y thought out, produced in it is irriponant be carefull actual words, handed if possible.

be consulted beforehand.


the Attorney-General to the Chair and, should The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: As the Bili has passed the Committe stae:e without amendment I now heg to move that it be read a third time and passed.

The COLONIAL SEC RE T ARY seconded .

Question put, and agreed to.

Biil reac'I.

a third time and passed.


The PRESIDENT: I adjourn Coun- May 6,, at 2 p.m. As rii 11ntil Thursday, the other day, I think we I rrientioned "'ili have or Friday next week to take one or two of lhe U nofficiai an 01Jportunit�· motions.

on Thursda,.- ... ��·--• -t.- ..... -_,;I__ = � u·