Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698745149008.pdf (Malaysia)
Volume V Wednesday No.

41 ( 8th January, 1964 PA RLI AMENTA RY D E B AT ES DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) OFFICIAL REPORT CONTENTS BILL: The Supply Bill, 1964-- Committee of Supply (Twelfth Allotted Day)- Heads S. 39, S. 40; S. 65M; S. 66R and S. 67T [Col. 4429] [Col. 4486] [Col. 4547] Heads S. 41-S. 44; Heads S. 65H, S. 65N, S. 65P; S. 66Q; S. 67Q and S. 67R [Col, 4474] Heads S. 45-5.
48; S. 65E; S. 66L; S. 67C and S. 67D Heads S. 49-S. 53; S. 65Q; S. 67H and S. 67P DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN KUALA LUMPUR 1964 MALAYSIA DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES) Official Report Fifth Session of the First Dewan Ra`ayat Wednesday, 8th January, 1964 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.
PRESENT : The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' HAJI MOHAMED NOAH BIN OMAR, P.M.N., S.P.M.J., D.P.M.B ., P.I.S., J.P. „ the Deputy Prime Minister , Minister of Defence and Minister of Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N.

(Pekan).

„ the Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N.

(Johor Timor).

P.M.N.

(Pontian Utara).


„ the Minister of Transport , DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, „ the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, ENCHE' MOHAMED KHIR BIN JOHARI (Kedah Tengah).

„ the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare , ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah).

„ the Minister of Health , ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAM TALIB (Kuantan).

(Larut Selatan).
(Larut Selatan).

„ the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SwEE AUN, J.P. „ the Minister of Education , TUAN HAM ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J .P.

(Batang Padang).

the Minister of Sarawak Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.D.K.

(Sarawak).

„ the Assistant Minister of Labour and Social Welfare, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K.

(Klang).

„ the Assistant Minister of Information and Broadcasting, DATU MOHAMED ISMAIL BIN MOHAMED YUSOF, P.D.K.

(Jerai).
(Jerai).

„ the Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Sarawak), ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA`KUB (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Kuala Langat).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N.

(Melaka Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K.

(Krian Laut).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN OSMAN ( Sungai Patanl).

„ TOH MUDA HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI ABDUL RAOF (Kuala Kangsar).
4423 8 JANUARY 1964 4424 The Honourable TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD.

SALLEH, A.M.N., P.I.S.

(Segamat Utara).

„ TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH (Kota Bharu Hilir).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N.

(Muar Utara).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN MOHAMED SHAH, S.M.J.

(Johor Bahru Barat).

„ TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID (Seberang Utara).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BIN HAJI YUSOF, P.J.K.

(Krian Darat).

„ ENCHE' AWANG DAUD BIN MATUSIN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam).

„ DR BURHANUDDIN BIN MOHD.

NOOR (Besot).


„ ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG (Sarawak).

„ PENGARAH BANYANG (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N.

(Kluang Selatan) .

„ ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong).

„ ENCHE' CHAN SWEE HO (Ulu Kinta).

„ ENCHE' CHIA THYE POH (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' CHIN SEE YIN (Seremban Timor).

„ ENCHE' V. DAVID (Bungsar).

„ ENCHE' DAGOK ANAK RANDEN (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak).

„ DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N.

(Jitra-Padang Terap).


„ DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' GAMING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, K.M.N.

(Penang Utara).

„ DR GOH KENG SWEE (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N.

(Kapar).

„ ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD.

YUNUS, A.M.N.

(Kulim Utara).

„ ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Baling).

„ ENCHE' HARUN BIN PILUS (Trengganu Tengah).

„ TUAN HAJI HASAN ADLI BIN HAJI ARSHAD (Kuala Trengganu Utara).

„ TUAN HAJI HASSAN BIN HAJI AHMAD (Tumpat).


„ ENCHE' HASSAN BIN MANSOR (Melaka Selatan).

„ ENCHE' HO SEE BENG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' HONG TECK GUAN (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN (Raub).

„ ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN Mom.

NOORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K.

(Pant).

„ TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu).

„ ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah).

„ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan).


„ ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN HAJI KASSIM (Kuala Trengganu Selatan) .

„ PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN (Sarawak).

4425 8 JANUARY 1964 4426 The Honourable ENCHE' JHUMAH BIN SALIM (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' KANG KOCK SENG (Bata Pahat).

„ ENCHE' K. KARAM SINGH (Damansara).

„ CHE' KHADIJAH BINTI MOHD.

SIDEK (Dungun).

„ ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' KOW KEE SENG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' LEE SAN CROON, K.M.N.

(Kluang Utara).


„ ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N.

(Sepang).

„ ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ ENCHE' CHARLES LINANG (Sarawak).

,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ENCHE' LIM HUAN BOON (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIM Joo KONG, J.P. (Alor Star).

ENCHE' LIM KIM SAN (Singapore).

ENCHE' LIU YOONG PENG (Rawang).

O. K. K. HAJI MAHALI BIN O. K. K .

MATJAKIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson).

ENCHE' MOHAMED BIN UJANG (Jelebu -Jempol).


ENCHE' MOHAMED ABBAS BIN AHMAD (Hilir Perak).

ENCHE' MOHD.

ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA (Pasir Puteh).

ORANG TUA MUHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHD.

DUN BIN BANIR, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED NOR BIN MOHD.

DAHAN (Ulu Perak).

ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N.

(Temerloh).

TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL (Perlis Selatan).

TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU`AUT BIN HAJI MUHD.

TAHIR (Sarawak).
TAHIR (Sarawak).

NIK MAN BIN NIK MOHAMED (Pasir Mas Hilir).

ENCHE' NG ANN TECK (Batu).

TURN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Tanah Merah).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N.

(Perlis Utara).

ENCHE' ABANG OTHMAN BIN ABANG HAJI MOASILI (Sarawak).

ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Barat).

ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SEAR TENG NGIAB (Muar Pantai).

ENCHE' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM (Menglembu).

ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak).

TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S.

(Batu Pahat Dalam).
(Batu Pahat Dalam).

TUAN SYED HASHIM BIN SPED AJAM, A.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Sabak Bernam).

(Johor.

Tenggara).

TUAN SPED JA`AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, J.M.N.

ENCHE' TAJUDIN BIN AL!, P.J.K.

(Larut Utara).

4427 8 JANUARY 1964 4428 The Honourable ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J .

P. (Bagan) .

„ ENCHE' TAN PHOCK KIN (Tanjong) .

ENCHE' TAN TSAK Yu (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' TAN TYE CHEK (Kulim- Bandar Bahru).

„ „ „ TENGKU BESAR INDERA RAJA IBNI AL-MARHUM SULTAN IBRAHIM, D.K., P.M.N.

(Ulu Kelantan).
(Ulu Kelantan).

„ DATO' TEOH CHZE CHONG, D.P.M.J., J.P .

(Segamat Selatan) .

ENCHE' Too JooN HING (Telok Anson).

„ PENGHULU FRANCIS UMPAU ANAK EMPAM (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' V. VEERAPPEN (Seberang Selatan).

„ WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU TUANKU BUJANG (Sarawak).

„ WAN MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ALi (Kelantan Hilir).

„ WAN SULAIMAN BIN WAN TAM, P.J.K.

(Kota Star Selatan).

„ WAN YAHYA BIN HAJI WAN MOHAMED, K.M.N.

(Kemaman).

„ ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON ( Singapore).

„ ENCHE' YAHYA BIN HAJI AHMAD ( Bagan Datoh).


„ ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah).

„ ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG ( Bruas).

„ ENCHE' YONG WOO MING (Sitiawan).

„ PUAN HAJJAH ZAIN BINTI SULAIMAN, J.M.N., P.I.S.

(Pontian Selatan).

„ TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD.

TAIB (Langat).

„ ENCHE' ZULKIFLEE BIN MUHAMMAD (Bachok).

ABSENT : Information and Broadcasting, Y.T.M.

TUNKU ABDUL RAHMAN PUTRA AL-Hu, K.O.M.

(Kuala Kedah).

„ the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah).
„ the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N.

(Sungai Siput).

„ the Minister without Portfolio, DATO' ONG YOKE LIN, P.M.N.

(Ulu Selangor).

„ the Assistant Minister of the Interior, ENCHE' CHEAH THEAM SWEE (Bukit Bintang) .

„ the Assistant Minister of Commerce and Industry, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN (Kota Star Utara).

„ ENCHE' ABDUL RAHIM ISHAK (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' AHMAD BOESTAMAM (Setapak).

„ CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak).


„ O. K. K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K.

(Sabah).

„ DR AWANG BIN HASSAN (Muar Selatan).

„ TUAN HAJI AZAHARI BIN HAJI IBRAHIM (Kubang Pasu Barat).

„ ENCHE' CHAN YOON ONN (Kampar).

„ ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak).

„ ENCHE' JEK YEUN THONG (Singapore).

„ ENCHE' KHONG KOK YAT (Batu Gajah).

The Honourable the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of 4429 8 JANUARY 1964 4430 The Honourable ENCHE' LEE KuArt YEW (Singapore).
ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim).

ENCHE' LING BENG SIEw (Sarawak).

ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat).

ENCHE' PETER Lo Su YIN (Sabah).

ENCHE' MOHAMED DAHARI BIN HAM MOHD.

AL!

(Kuala Selangor).

(Pasir Mas Hulu).

DATO' MOHAMED HANIFAH BIN HAJI ABDUL GHANI, P.J.K.

ENCHE' PETER J. MOJUNTIN, A.D.K.

(Sabah).

ENCHE' ONG PANG BOON ( Singapore).

ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN WOK (Singapore).

ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM ( Singapore).

TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD.

SAID, J.P. (Rembau-Tampin).


ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh).

ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak).

ENCHE' SONG THIAN CHEOK (Sarawak) .

DATU DONALD ALOYSIUS STEPHENS, P.D.K.

(Sabah) .

ENCHE' TAN KEE OAK (Bandar Melaka).

DR TOH CHIN CHYE (Singapore).

ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak).

ENCHE' YONG NYUK LIN (Singapore).

„ „ „ „ „ „ „ The Honourable the Minister without Portfolio, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH , P.J.K.

(Ulu Selangor).

IN ATTENDANCE : (Mr Speaker in the Chair) stand part of the Schedule.
$7,704,792 for Head S. 66R, and $9,404,690 for Head S. 67T PRAYERS BILL THE SUPPLY BILL, 1964 Order read for resumed considera- tion in Committee of Supply (Twelfth Allotted Day).

House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
(Mr Speaker in the Chair) SCHEDULE Heads S. 39, S. 40, S. 65M, S. 66R and 67T Resumption of Debate on Question : That the sums of : $2,096,604 for Head S.39, $101,573 ,920 for Head S. 40, $37,250,830 for Head S. 65M, Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda (Pasir Puteh ): Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka mengambil bahagian ber- chakap di-bawah Kepala S. 40 berkenaan dengan Ketua Polis Negara.
Saya terpaksa menyatakan perasaan sedeh dan dukachita terhadap ke- dudokan sa-sudah berlaku-nya Malay- sia, maka Ketua Polis Negara kita telah di-lantek sa-orang yang bukan warga-negara negeri ini, pada hal sa- sudah kita merdeka tahun 1957 dahulu dan sa-sudah berjalan sa-kian lama, pada akhir-nya jawatan yang tertinggi dalam bahagian polis ini telah menchapai satu kemajuan yang sangat2 di-hargai dan patut di-beri kepujian yang sa-tinggi2-nya manakala pehak Kementerian ini telah mengam- bil langkah dengan melantek anak 4431 8 JANUARY 1964 4432 negeri ini menjadi ketua yang tertinggi Satu perkar.
a lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, sa-kali dalam anggota polis negara kita saya suka hendak bangkitkan tentang mi.

Tetapi sa-sudah berubah daripada Persekutuan Tanah Melayu menjadi sa-buah negara Malaysia yang mengi- kut perhitongan pehak Kerajaan ini suatu langkah yang menuju ka-arah kemajuan dan suatu langkah yang benar2 menchapai hakikat kemerde- kaan yang sa-jati, tiba2 langkah yang.
pada mula-nya balk dengan melantek anak negeri ini menjadi ketua yang tertinggi sa-kali dalam bahagian polis negara ini telah berubah dan mundor sa-bahagian daripada kerja2 polis di- dalam negeri kita mi.

Dengan tidak menapikan bahawa Pasokan Polis negara kita ini banyak telah membuat jasa kapada negeri ini dan kepujian patut-lah di-berikan kapada ' mereka itu tentang kerja2 mereka yang selisa dan selia terhadap keamanan dan ketenteraman di-dalam negara kita mi.
Maka di-antara itu kita dapati ada sa-bahagian kechil daripada mereka itu di-dalam melakukan tugas2-nya ka- balek ka-belakang manakala ketua dang2 menzahirkan kerja2 mereka yang tertinggi bagi polis Malaysia telah di-lantek sa-orang yang bukan anak negeri ini.

Patut-lah pehak Kementerian ini sedar bahawa langkah berat sa-belah, terutama sa-kali di- dalam tugas2 mengawal ketenteraman dari segi politik.
Di-negeri Kelantan mithal-nya, Tuan Pengerusi, sa- yang saperti itu boleh menimbulkan bahagian daripada kaki-tangan polis perasaan tidak sihat dan tidak nyaman daripada seluroh ra`ayat dan pendudok negeri ini sa-olah2-nya pehak Kemen- terian itu •terasa bahawa belum ada lagi kelayakan dari .

kalangan anak negeri ini untok menjawat jawatan yang tertinggi itu.
Tetapi, manakala kita melihat kapada Kepala S. 40 Butiran (1) dan di-bandingkan dengan Butiran (30}---Pesuroh Jaya Polis, Tingkatan-tertinggi A bagi Polis Semenanjong, maka kita dapati sama ada tingkatan-nya mahu pun tangga gaji-nya sama2 sahaja.
mi erti-nya telah menunjokkan sikap yang terlalu berat sa-belah dalam mengawal dan menjaga kerja2 parti2 politik, umpama- nya di-dalam majlis'- cheramah yang telah di-adakan di-negeri Kelantan itu, pada hal kita dapat tahu bahawa mengadakan majlis cheramah ya`ani mengadakan perjumpaan di-dalam sa- buah rumah untok menerangkan, berbinchang sa-suatu, tidak sa-bagai rapat umum di-hadapan ra`ayat yang ramai, biasa-nya majlis cheramah saperti itu tidak-fah perlu meminta kebenaran daripada pehak polis dan menunjokkan dengan terang dan jelas perkara ini saya sendiri telah bertanya bahawa orang yang dahulu-nya kapada Penasihat Undang2 tentang memegang jawatan ketua yang tertinggi kedudokan yang sa-benar-nya di-dalam bagi Polis Persekutuan memang mem- perkara ini, dan nampak-nya Penasihat punyai kelayakan untok menyandang Undang2 itu bersetuju dengan saya jawatan sa-bagai Ketua Tertinggi atau bahawa kalau mengadakan majlis Inspector-General bagi Polis Malaysia cheramah di-dalam sa-buah rumah mi.
Sudah-lah sampai masa-nya pehak yang tertutup saperti itu tidak-lah Kementerian ini menimbangkan kem- perlu mendapat kebenaran daripada bali dengan tidak payah menanti2 dan pehak polis, tetapi apa yang berlaku, menunggu2 saperti mana langkah yang Tuan Pengerusi, pehak'- kaki-tangan telah di-ambil di-bawah Kementerian polis yang tertentu telah mengambil Pertahanan dengan melantek anak berat sangat tentang perkara ini, dan negeri ini dengan serta-merta me- kadang2 mengganggu majlis2 cheramah megang jawatan yang tertinggi dalam saperti itu, sa-hingga kadang2 boleh anggota Tentera Malaysia ini.
Maka menimbulkan pandangan daripada demikian-lah hendak-nya pehak Yang orang ramai bahawa pehak polls Berhormat Menteri ini mesti menun benar2 telah merupakan sa-bagai satu2 jokkan kapada ra`ayat negeri ini dan kaki-tangan daripada sa-buah parti kapada dunia seluroh-nya keberanian bertindak melantek dengan serta- politik menekan dan sa-bagai-nya.
Satu masa saya sendiri bersama2 dengan merta anak negeri ini memegang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kota jawatan yang tertinggi bagi anggota Bharu Hilir mengadakan satu majlis polls negara Malaysia kita mi.
cheramah di-dalam kawasan pilehan 443 8 JANUARY 1964 4434 raga saya sendiri, di-waktu hujan yang lebat di=dalam sa-buah rumah orang kah tidak berlaku kejadian yang saperti ini, tetapi apa yang saya saya sendiri, tetapi sa-lepas daripada cheritakan ini is-lah kejadian yang itu konon-nya ada daripada pehak berlaku di-hadapan mata saya sendiri Parti Perikatan telah melaporkan dan dengan pengetahuan saya sendiri.
kapada polis dan polis telah datang dengan tergesa2 dengan sa-buah Saya dua tiga hari baharu2 ini, sa- sudah saya bertalipon ka-rumah saya pasokan yang ramai mengepong rumah sendiri , orang rumah saya telah itu dan naik ka-rumah itu, ber- tanyakan kapada saya, ada-kah tidak memberitahu kapada saya bahawa dua tiga kali pehak polis itu telah permit?

Saya kata permit apa?

Kata dia menalipon ka-rumah saya meminta permit mengadakan uchapan.
Saya saya datang ka-pejabat polis untok kata ini bukan majlis sharahan umum.

interview kata dia berthabit dengan Ini majlis cheramah di-atas rumah.

cheramah di-tempat yang saya cherita- Akhir-nya dia minta kad gambar saya.

kan tadi.

Dia bukan tidak tahu yang Saya beri-lah segala kehendak dia.

saya sekarang ini sedang ada berme Saya kata apa fasal Enche' datang ini?

Kata dia kerana ada report.

Ah !

ini- lah yang sudah kata dia, kalau ada report,, terpaksa kami datang.
Soal itu tidak apa-lah, Tuan Penge- rusi, tetapi satu minggu kemudian, tuan rumah itu telah di-panggil, di- adakan penyiasatan di-tekan dan sa- bagai-nya, ' dan akhir-nya datang Pegawai Polis di-kampong itu ber- tanyakan kapada tuan rumah itu Pula dan menyatakan ta' usah-lah lagi sokong parti PAS ini, sokong-lah Parti Perikatan.
Jadi, nampak terang walau pun dengan chara sulit bahawa kerja2 sa-bahagian, bukan semua-nya, sa- bahagian daripada kaki-tangan polls ini is-lah betul2 untok mengganggu kerja2 politik di-dalam negeri ini, dan merupakan sa-bagai alat dan kaki- tangan daripada pehak Yang Berhor- mat Menteri ini sendiri agak-nya.

Jadi, kerja2 yang berat sa-belah sa- perti ini, Tuan Pengerusi, patut-fah di- hindarkan daripada berlaku di-dalam angkatan polls kita.
Jangan-lah Yang Berhormat Menteri ini chuba hendak menjadikan kaki-tangan polis itu, atau sa-bahagian daripada-nya sa-kali pun sa-bagai alat daripada pehak politik- nya sendiri untok menekan kebebasan democracy di-dalam negeri mi.

Sunggoh pun pehak polis telah di-beri sagu hati baharu2 ini dengan kenaikan gaji-nya., tetapi jangan-lah hendak-nya dengan kerana kenaikan gaji dan sagu hati itu dapat diri mereka itu di- shuarat di -Kuala Lumpur, tetapi dia sengaj a di-talipon , .
bukan sahaj a ka- rumah saya , tetapi ka -mana sahaja rumah yang dia tahu saya pernah berjalan, dia talipon bertanyakan ada- kah tidak Enche' Mohamed Asri di- situ , kerana kata-nya pehak polis hendak interview dia, pehak C.I.D.

kata-lah pehak Investigation Officer entah apa lagi tidak tahu-lah saya.

Ini-lah chara-nya .

Jadi, pehak polis sa- olah2-nya hendak menunjokkan kapada orang ramai bahawa Mohamed Asri sekarang ini sedang di-chari .

Bagitu- lah keadaan-nya .


Jadi, ini-lah, saya minta kapada Yang Berhormat Men- teri ini, walau pun hati-nya tidak mahu membenarkan , saya minta ka= pada Yang Berhormat Menteri ini supaya pada masa akan datang elak- kan-lah sa -berapa boleh , dan tahan- kan-lah naf su politik itu daripada berlaku di-dalam kalangan kaki- tangan pehak polis di-dalam negeri in'.

Satu perkara lagi, Tuan Pengerusi, baharu2 ini berlaku mogok pekerja2 NETS.
Saya bukan hendak cheritakan soul mogok itu, tetapi saya hendak cheritakan tindakan pehak polis itu.
Saya bacha di-dalam surat khabar, sebab waktu mogok itu berlaku is-lah waktu sidang Parlimen ini berjalan, ia- itu bagaimana kaki-tangan polis, itu pun tidak semua-nya barangkali yang telah melakukan kerja2 memechah2kan pemogok pekerja2 NETS di-tempat pergunakan oleh pehak Kementerian slmpan bas di-Pasir Puteh is-itu di- Yang Berhormat ini ' untok menekan kawasan saya sendiri, sa-hingga apa- sa-suatu gulongan politik yang lain.
kala pehak pemogok itu tidor di-atas Saya tidak tahu di-negeri2 lain, ada- jalan tidak membenarkan base itu 4435 S JANUARY 1964 4436 datang, ada di-antara kaki-tangan polis itu yang datang memijak perut- nya dan menyepak-nya pemogok2 itu sampai pengsan, dan terpaksa di-bawa ka-hospital.
Waktu di-tanya kapada pehak yang berkuasa polis di-Kelantan ini surat khabar juga yang mencheritakan-nya kata-nya pe- hak polis tidak pernah melakukan demikian, tetapi yang pernah berlaku, Tuan Pengerusi, is-lah beberapa orang daripada kaki-tangan pekerja2 NETS itu telah di-bawa ka-hospital dan terpaksa di-rawat beberapa hari.
Ini pun mudah2an pada masa akan datang tidak akan lagi berlaku, dan jangan-lah ini saya katakan sa-kali lagi, jangan-lah pehak Kementerian ini menggunakan kaki-tangan polis itu dengan chara yang tidak betul bagi meluluskan segala apa kehendak-nya sendiri.

Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Penge- rusi, kembali saya kapada soal ber- kenaan dengan tindakan polis menangkap orange politik pada masa2 yang akhir2 mi.
Orange politik yang saya hendak terangkan itu is-lah berkenaan dengan penangkapan ka- pada beberapa orang ahli2 PAS di-negeri Kelantan dalam Jajahan Pasir Mas, terutama-nya penangkapan yang akhir is-itu kapada dua orang anggota ulama yang di-tahan di-bawah Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.

Saya dapat-lah menyatakan di-sini bahawa sangat-lah janggal keadaan pehak Yang Berhormat Menteri, atau Kemen terian yang berkenaan ini menan gkap dua orang ulama PAS pada masa2 yang akhir mi.
Janggal kata saya itu, janggal dengan alasan- nya, janggal dengan chara penahanan- nya, dan janggal pula dengan chara melepaskan mereka itu.

Saperti yang telah ma`alum bagaimana kenyataan daripada Yang Berhormat Menteri bahawa di-lepaskan dua orang ulama PAS itu is-lah di-atas alasan ke- sihatan dan peri kemanusiaan.
Saya, di-atas chakap2 itu, saya uchapkan terima kaseh-lah, rupa2-nya Yang Berhormat Menteri kita ini maseh tebal lagi rasa peri kemanusiaan-nya sa-hingga sampai oleh kerana datang rasa peri kemanusiaan-nya itu yang hadap kesihatan dua orang ulama PAS itu bagitu hibat, sa-hingga mereka itu boleh di-lepaskan daripada Un- dang2 Keselamatan Dalarn Negeri mi.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, satu perkara yang harus menjadi masaalah kapada kita sekarang ini, benar-kah perasaan peri kemanusiaan dan rasa kasehan atas kesihatan yang tidak bagitu baik..... Mr Chairman: Order !

Order !

Saya dapat tahu perkara ini pehak PAS ada menuntut kerugian kapada Kerajaan dengan sebab orang ini di-tahan.

Maka jika ada perkara itu dalam Mahkamah, itu sub judice tidak boleh di-bawakan perkara itu.
Ini saya dapat tahu dalam surat khabar pehak PAS ada menuntut kerugian kerana malu di-tangkap itu.

Kalau ada berlaku macham itu, saya tidak boleh benarkan benda itu di- bahathkan di-sini.

Jaga sadikit.

Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Haji Muda : Tuan Pengerusi, saya tidak tahu-lah tentang hal itu sebab tidak ada di-sampaikan kapada saya sama ada pehak Persatuan Islam menuntut ke- rugian dalam Mahkamah.

Jadi pada fikiran dan fahaman saya benda itu maseh belum ada tuntutan lagi.
Mr Chairman: Saya dapat tahu itu dalam surat khabar.

Enche' Mohamed Asri bin Ha ji Muda: Ta' apa-lah, kalau saya sudah tahu dan faham bila benda itu sudah di-bawa ka-Mahkamah saya berhenti- lah berchakap di-atas perkara itu.

Chuma itu-lah pada keselurohan-nya, dapat-lah Menteri Yang Berhormat Keselamatan Dalam Negeri ini patut- lah benar2 layak bertanggong-jawab di-dalam menj aga keamanan negeri ini dan dalam mengawal supaya roh dan semangat demokrasi itu dapat hidup dengan subor di-negeri mi.
Jangan-lah kesuboran demokrasi itu dapat di- halangi oleh rachun2 yang bisa yang keluar dari tangan Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Negeri itu sendiri.

The Deputy Prime Minister (Tun Haji Abdul Razak): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to answer the statement made by the Honourable Member for Kuala bagitu mendalam dan kasehan ter- Langat yesterday that there was an 4437 8 JANUARY 1964 4438 attempt made to harm him, or to take his life, by some one.
He implicated the State Assemblyman for Morib whose name is now obvious, and he has also implicated my name.

Sir, this is a serious allegation and I can assure the House that there is no truth at all in this allegation.

It is a matter of very deep regret that the name of the State Assemblyman for Morib has been brought into this House, because he is not a Member of this House.

The Honourable Member for Kuala Langat also said that I called his religious teacher from Johore.
I have not known this man and I have not done this at all -I do not know this religious teacher at all.

This had happened eight to ten months ago, and if it was true, why did not the Honourable Member make a report to the Police, so that the Police could thoroughly investigate the case?

Sir, I challenge the Honourable Member to make a written report to the Police, so that if there is no truth in his allegation.

then I can take action against him under the law.


If he would not do this, I will ask the Attorney-General to make a full inquiry into this, and if there is no truth in his allegation -I am sure there is no truth in it -I will lay the matter before the Committee of Privileges of this House.
I am afraid, Sir, it has become the custom for some Members of the Opposition to make allegations of a serious nature under the sanctuary of this House, when the proper thing to do is that such allegations should be made to the Police.

I feel that it is the duty of the Committee of Privileges of this House to look into this matter.
Now, Sir, I know that ever since the Honourable Member was dismissed by the Alliance, he has been going round to his constituency saying that people were trying to do harm to him.

He did this in order to invoke the pity of the people on him so that they will support him.

Having done this for some time, he has got to implicate some one in this and he has chosen the State Assemblyman for Morib and myself.

I and he is definitely a case for mental examination.

(Laughter).
(Laughter).

He though that in the circumstances in which he was dismissed from the Alliance, in these circumstances, this is what he himself would have done to a colleague who had left.

However, Sir, we the Ministers of the Alliance Government, are made of better stuff than him, and the people of this country and Honourable Members of this House know that too well.

There is no need for me to try to explain this at length.
The people throughout the length and breadth of this country are in a position to judge for themselves what we have done so far and they are also able to judge for themselves how we have been behaving since we came into office.

Indeed, Sir, if we had wanted to eliminate him from the political field, there would be no need to do what he alleged.

We can do so through the orginary democratic and electoral process and that process is being carried out.
Sir, the Honourable Member should know that his life is not worth $20,000 or $2,000 whatever figure he gave.

I have made, this morning, enquiry from the Police who has confirmed that there is no report made to the Police in respect of his allegation that a certain incident took place some eight or ten months ago.

The Honour- able Member did make a verbal report to the Police on three or four occasions one on the 30th March, Report No.
174/63, Tanjong Sepat : he alleged that four or five Malays attempted to enter his compound, and the Police did make investigation into this; then on 7th April, 1963, he again made a report, Report No.

8189/63, that two persons attempted to enter his compound; then on the 16th April, 1963, he asked the O.C.P.D.
to send a patrol to go round his house as he said he found people loitering in his compound; this the Police did; the last report he made was during the last by-election in Telok Datoh, where he said some people travelling in a Peugot car attempted to waylay him.

say, Sir, that the Honourable Member These are the only reports he made to is suffering from persecution complex, the Police, and on this particular 4439 $ JANUARY 1964 4440 allegation he has not made a report to the Police.
Minister of Internal Security that these people will not be victimised in I now challenge the Honourable Member to make a written report to the Police if there is any truth in his allegation and I am sure there is no truth; if he is not prepared to do so, I will order an inquiry.

The only regret that I have is that the Honourable Member as an ex-colleague should have the heart to allege that I have tried to do harm to him, or to take away his life.
This gives me pain, but this is a pain that I must suffer myself.

I can assure the Honourable Member that if anything were to happen to him in future, it will not be through me or through my hand Tuhan sahaja-lah yang akan menyaksi hal mi.

Sir, I will definitely go to the bottom of this serious allegation, and if there is no truth in it -I am convinced there is no truth then we will have to take appropriate action against the Honour- able Member.

(Applause).
(Applause).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak (Kuala Langat): Sir, I will make an immediate report to the Police station, because my allegation is true, and I Defence to swear on the Koran if there is no truth in it.

(Interruption).

Sir, as a Muslim to another Muslim, I think, that is significant.

I sincerely ask him, if there is no truth in it, will he swear by the Koran that there is no truth in it?
For my part, I thought at the beginning that I did not want to report it officially to the Police, but I did make unofficial reports to the District Officer, Kuala Langat, and the O.C.P.D.

and also to the Minister of Transport; I did mention it to him.

It was in May; it was soon after the incident took place.

In fact, Sir, I do not lie.

I think the Minister of Defence is not telling the truth and is afraid.

He is capable of such a daibolical act.

any way.


Tun Haji Abdul Razak: Sir, I would like to explain.

As I said, it is not usual for us to swear by the Koran on this matter.

But as the Honourable Member has agreed to make a report, a written report, I will ask him to do it immediately and full investigation will be made into this case; and with the agreement of my colleague, the Minister of Internal Security, there will be no victimisation, because we want to get to the bottom of this.
It is a serious allegation and if there is no truth in it, then appropriate action will be taken under the law.

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, will he swear by the Koran?

Tun Haji Abdul Razak : No, Sir.

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: He will not swear by the Koran, Sir.

(Interruption).

Mr Chairman : Order, order.


The question of swearing by the Koran is not a matter which should be taken up The Minister of Transport (Dato' Haji Sardon bin Haji Jubir): Tuan Pengerusi, Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat berchakap mengatakan dia buat report pada saya; saya ini bukan Polis hendak menerima report dia, saga tidak perchaya perkara mi.
Enche' Abdul Rauf bin Abdul Rahnian (Krran Laut): Tuan Penge- rusi, saya berdiri is-lah hendak menyokong anggaran perbelanjaan Kementerian Keselamatan yang ber- j umlah $103,670,524 is-itu perbelan- jaan bagi tahun 1964.

Tuan Pengerusi, sa-lain daripada itu saya menguchapkan sa-tinggi2 tahniah kapada Kementerian ini dengan melalui ketua2-nya dan challenge the Honourable Minister of by this House at all !

Sir, I am prepared and I will do it.


pegawai2 keselamatan di-dalam negeri I will immediately go to the Police is-itu kapada Special Branch, C.I.D.

station and lodge a report.

Of course, I again plead here that those persons dan juga polis yang telah menjalankan kewajipan-nya masing2 untok menjaga involved will not be victimised, so that keamanan negeri ini, dan di-dalam proper process of law will take place.
tugas2 mereka yang saya sebutkan tadi, That I ask as an assurance from the dapat-lah kita saksikan dengan bijak Deputy Prime Minister and the pandai ahli2 keselamatan itu dapat 4441 S JANUARY 1964 4442 beberapa perkara yang merbahaya yang akan merosakkan keselamatan negeri ini dapat di-tangkap atau di-pechahkan kumpulan2 itu.
Sa-lain daripada itu, Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka-lah menyatakan di-dalam Dewan ini ada sa-tengah2 daripada Ahli2 Dewan ini terutama sa-kali pehak parti2 Pembangkang selalu mengatakan ada-lah satu2 tangkapan yang di- jalankan oleh Kerajaan kapada diri sa-saorang itu di-katakan-nya orang itu tidak bersalah, biar pun orang itu salah, mengatakan yang di-tangkap itu tidak betul, tidak ada dalam Undang2 dan orang itu di-tangkap dengan tidak ada kesalahan-nya.
Ini-lah yang selalu kita dengar dalam Dewan ini daripada tudohan2 yang di-beri oleh parti2 Pembangkang.

Jadi, nampak-nya pada pendapat saya, Tuan Pengerusi, ini sudah menjadi tabiat sa-mula jadi kapada manusia is-itu apakala suatu perkara yang salah yang telah di-buat oleh ibu bapa atau adek beradek atau anak2 saudara-nya, apakala di- tangkap sudah tetap mengatakan anak-nya itu tidak salah, abang-nya tidak salah, wal-hal yang di-tangkap itu sudah sabit dengan kesalahan.
Jadi, di-sini saya suka-lah lagi untok memberi fikiran dan mengeshorkan kapada Kementerian Keselamatan ini jalankan-lah tugas2 yang telah di- tanggongkan kapada Kementerian ini untok menjaga keselamatan negeri mi.

Tangkap siapa juga yang di-fikiran salah, tangkap siapa juga yang di-shaki atau orange yang menggangui keselamatan di-dalam negeri mi.
Tangkapan itu bukan-nya daripada tingkatan rendah, bahkan jika Ahli2 Yang Berhormat Dewan Palimen ini sa-kali pun sa-kira-nya membuat sa-suatu kesalahan yang merosakkan keselamatan di-dalam negeri ini hendak-lah Kementerian ini menj alan- kan tugas-nya sa-bagaimana yang telah di-jalankan-n.ya pada masa2 yang sudah.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya suka menarek bulan yang lalu kalau tidak silap saya, barangkali Ahli2 Yang Berhormat semua tahu banyak daripada saudara2 kita yang datang daripada Pulau Riau ka-Singapura, tujuan-nya tidak lain dan tidak bukan apakala di-tanya is-lah untok membeliberas dan di- tanya apa fasal-nya mereka datang ka-mari untok membeli beras kerana di-Pulau Riau itu beras tidak ada, dan pemerentahan di-sabelah sana nampak- nya terlampau kejam.
Jadi, kita di-sini sa-bagai manusia yang ada mempunyai peri perasaan kemanusiaan kita sudah memikirkan orang yang sa-macham ini patut sangat-lah di-beri pertolongan untok keselamatan diri mereka dan anak2 mereka, tetapi kita hendak-lah beringat2 atas kedatangan orange yang sa-macham ini, kita takut dan saya juga takut di-dalam 30 orang atau 40 orang yang datang daripada Pulau Riau itu bukan semua-nya orange itu sa-benar2-nya untok menchari makan yang akan di-bawa balek ka-Riau, saya takut di-dalam 30-40 orang ini ada 10 orang yang membuat susah diri-nya menyertai orange itu yang di-arah oleh Keraj aan Indonesia, untok menyeludup dan berjumpa dengan agent2 Indonesia yang ada di-sini.
Di-sini, saya suka-lah mengingatkan Kementerian Kesela- matan hendak-lah berjaga2 dan ber- waspada berkenaan dengan kedatangan orange Indonesia yang di-katakan hanyut atau di-pukul angin dalam perahu-nya di-masa dalam laut sana.

Baharu2 ini dua orang wanita Indonesia telah dapat di-tangkap di-Singapura, kalau tidak silap saya, orang itu mengatakan pemerentahan Indonesia zalim dan askar2 di-sana sudah membuat satu perkara yang tidak baik kapada kaum2 wanita di-tempat2 itu.
Ini kita mesti fikir : kedatangan orang ini macham mana orange itu boleh datang ka-Singapura, menumpang kapal2 kayu, saya tidak fikir, tentu perkara itu ada hantaran daripada Indonesia.

Lagi sa-kali saya mengingatkan kapada Kementerian ini perhatian Dewan ini is-Iah ber- hendak-lah berjaga2 perkara yang sangkutan dengan penyeludupan atau sa-macham ini.

Kerana apa, Tuan pun kedatangan2 orange yang kita tidak hajati datang ka-Persekutuan Pengerusi?
Saya suka-lah mengambil satu berita yang saya tahu; di-masa ini, terutama sa-kali is-lah saudara2 Perang Dunia yang Kedua Tuan kita daripada Indonesia.

Pada dua Churchill memberi ingatan kapada 4443 8 JANUARY 1964 4444 Perdana Menteri British Tuan Cham- berlain, kata-nya, "Ingat2 perbuatan Jerman yang menghalaukan segala orange Yahudi di-negeri Jerman di- keluarkan daripada negeri itu : saya takut orange Yahudi yang di-hambat itu ada Gestapo2 Jerman di-dalam-nya sama menyeksa diri sa-bagai Yahudi."
Perkara itu sudah betul, is-itu di-dalam banyak2 Yahudi yang di-halau dari- pada negeri Jerman itu ada Gestapo2 dan spy di-champorkan sama untok menyusahkan diri bersama2 dengan Yahudi2 yang lain, sebab itu-lah di-masa peperangan Jerman apa kala Jerman masok senang sahaja dapat tempat yang di-tuju-nya.
Ini-lah satu ingatan yang saya dapat sa-lepas Perang Dunia II dan saya harap negara kita ini jangan-lah kita mem- perchayai, biar pun adek-beradek kita sendiri, jika gera.k langkah mereka silap hendak-fah kita ikut dan tangkap.

Saya tidak-lah lagi hendak ber- chakap panjang dan saya lagi sa-kali menyokong dengan penoh Perbelanjaan Kementerian Keselamatan Dalam Negeri yang berjumlah sa-banyak $103,670,524 bagi tahun 1964.
Tuan Syed Ja`afar bin Hasan Albar (Johor Tenggara ): Tuan Pengerusi, Dewan ini telah mendengar satu tu- dohan yang amat serious daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat.
Jadi, tudohan itu sa-belum saya berchakap sadikit berkenaan dengan-nya, saya ingin juga hendak membuat analisa berkenaan dengan din Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu supaya daripada analisa yang pendek dan rengkas itu dapat-lah Dewan ini mengukor dan menyukat sa-jauh mana dan sa-takat mana harga tudohan yang di-limparkan-nya dalam Dewan ini.
Daripada pengkajian saya yang lama berkenaan dengan Ahli Yang Berhormat ini dia ada-lah sa- orang yang sangat2 suka benar me- nerbitkan perkara2 untok hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai kapada wujud-nya di-atas muka bumi Allah ini, dan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu pada anggapan saya sa-orang yang pandai menchari peluang atau pun boleh saya katakan sa-orang "oppor- tunist" menchari tempat dan kedudok- an.
Kerana pada satu masa dahulu apakala dia terapong2 sa-bagai warta- wan yang tidak terkenal dia telah mendampingkan diri dengan allah- yarham Dato' Onn yang pada masa itu menjadi Menteri Dalam Negeri dan bersama2 menubohkan I.M.P.

untok.

mendapat tempat dan kedudokan bagi menimbulkan diri-nya supaya dia ter- pandang oleh orang ramai dalam negeri ini .
Akhir-nya Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu telah masok bertanding dalam Pilehan Raya Municipal yang pertama dalam negeri ini di-Kuala Lumpur di-atas ticket atau dengan nama IMP (I.

M.P.)

dan dalam pilehan raya itu beliau telah di -tewaskan oleh chalun2 Perikatan.

Sa-telah beliau ka- lah dalam pilehan raya itu dia telah menchari jalan pula mendampingi Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku yang pada masa itu jadi ketua UMNO untok menchari tempat dan kedudok- an dalam UMNO.
Maka untok hendak memberi peluang kapada manusia ini kalau2 boleh dia di-gunakan bagi faedah dan kebajikan orang ramai - maka masok-lah dia dalam UMNO.

Maka dalam UMNO ini-lah nasib dan tuah Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu telah menjadi baik dan bintang -nya bertambah cherah daripada sa-orang wartawan yang tidak terkenal telah pun menjadi sa- orang Menteri dalam Jema`ah Menteri Kerajaan Perikatan .
Dan dalam masa Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat menjadi Menteri dalam Kera- jaan Perikatan dia telah membuat ber- bagai hal untok hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai bahawa dalam Jema`ah Menteri dan dalam Kerajaan Perikatan hanya ada sa-orang-lah sahaja yang patut di-kenal oleh ma- nusia dalam negeri ini, is-itu Yang Berhormat Menteri Pertanian dan Sha- rikat Kerjasama.
Enche' V. David (Bungsar): Mr Chairman, Sir, on a point of order, Standing Order 36 (9) which says : "No reference shall be made in any debate to the conduct or character of any Member of Parliament or of any public servant, other than conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament or public servant, as the case may be."

I do not think this House is debating the history and background of the 4445 8 JANUARY 1964 4446 Member for Kuala Langat.
We are purely dwelling on the estimates under the Internal Security Act.

Mr Chairman : Yes, but you did not finish your sentence.

It says "other than conduct in the capacity of Mem- ber of Parliament"; in other words, if conduct in the capacity of Member of Parliament, it can be debated.

Enche' V. David: But not the historical background of the Member concerned.

Mr Chairman : He is on the pream- ble, perhaps.

(Laughter) (To Tuan Syed Ja`af ar) : Do not take too long.

Jangan panjang sangat.


Tuan Syed Ja`afar : Tujuan saya membentangkan sifat2 Ahli Yang Ber- hormat dari Kuala Langat ini is-lah supaya dapat pada kemudian-nya saya menggambarkan kapada Dewan ini plan kapada seluroh negeri ini bagai- mana sif at orang ini dan bagaimana chakap2 dan tudohan2 yang keluar daripada sa-or.

ang yang mempunyai sifat bagaimana yang saya gambarkan itu.
Jadi, dalam rnasa Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu menjadi Menteri dalam Kerajaan bermacham2-lah dia telah menchuba hendak menarek perhatian orang ramai kapada maha diri-nya, ia- itu dengan "telor `ajaib-nya, dengan ayam `ajaib-nya dengan urea-nya" dan berbagai lagi.

Tujuan-nya tidak lain is-lah hendakkan supaya pandangan negeri ini tertumpu kapada Ahli Yang Berhormat dari.

Kuala Langat.
Kuala Langat.

Maka sekarang ini, Tuan Pengerusi, peluang untok Ahli Yang Berhormat itu menunjokkan diri-nya dan menon- jolkan diri-nya kapada orang ramai sa- bagai Menteri sa-telah dia di-buang dan di-pechat daripada UMNO dan di-buang daripada Jema`ah Menteri Perikatan, di.a tidak ada satu modal pun dan tid.ak ada satu kedudokan pun dan tidak ada satu tempat pun bertenggek untok menonjolkan bahawa aku ini-lah yang patut ra`ayat negeri ini dan manusia dalam negeri ini me- mandang dan mengaleh kapada-nya.
Maka oleh kerana agak-nya pilehan xaya sa-makin hari sa-makin dekat, Kuala Langat sa-makin lama sa-makin malap, maka pada hari ini di-dalam Dewan ini Ahli Yang Berhormat itu telah mendatangkan satu tudohan untok menarek hati dan perhatian seluroh ra`ayat negeri ini bahawa Ahli Yang Berhormat itu bagitu penting orang-nya, sa-hinggakan beberapa orang dan sa-orang Menteri telah men- chuba hendak mengambil nyawa-nya, sa-bagaimana yang di-tudoh-nya dalam uchapan-nya kelmarin.
Tudohan ini, Tuan Pengerusi, telah di-jelas dan di- terangkan oleh Yang Berhormat T"im- balan Perdana Menteri tadi, yang saya tidak hendak lagi mengulas lebeh, tetapi soal-nya pada hari ini : ini ha nya satu helah daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat itu hendak menunjokkan bahawa diri-nya itu terlampau penting, sa-hingga Kerajaan seluroh-nya dengan Menteri2 Kerajaan dalam negeri ini chuba hendak mengambil nyawa-nya, kerana takutkan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu.
Tetapi, Tuan Pengerusi, di-sini saya hendak menunjokkan bahawa chara-nya membuat publicity yang sa- umpama ini ada-lah satu chara yang paling burok sa-kali, yang paling mer- bahaya sa-kali, dan dia sekarang ber- hadapan dengan chabaran yang di- kemukakan kapada.-nya oleh Yang Berhormat Timbalan Perdana Menteri.

Jadi, di-sini, Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak menguji tudohan-nya itu sa- jauh mana-kah kejujuran Ahli Yang Berhormat itu mendatangkan tudohan- nya.
Perkara tudohan hendak mem- binasakan tudoh badan-nya dan hendak meragot nyawa-nya sudah tujoh lapan bulan dahulu, mengikut kenyataan daripada Ahli Yang Ber- hormat itu sendiri, dan sa-hingga sa`at ini ugutan itu, anchaman atas diri dan nyawa-nya tidak di-reportkan kapada polis.

Jadi, ini menunjokkan dan ini satu dalil bahawa Ahli Yang Berhor- mat itu sendiri tidak perchaya bahawa apa yang di-chakapan-nya itu benar.
Sa-saorang yang nyawa-nya terugut, yang nyawa-nya terancham, dia tidak akan dudok diam, dia tentu akan mem- buat kenyataan, atau report kapada pehak polis supaya di-beri kawalan atas nyawa-nya, tetapi dia menuggu dan bintang Ahli Yang Berhormat dari berbulan2 baharu dia datang ka-mari.
4447 8 JANUARY 1964 4448 Tuan Pengerusi, saya fikir Kerajaan dan Parti Perikatan tidak perlu meng- ikut jalan kotor dan berfikir sechara kotor bagaimana yang di-buat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu, kerana dengan jalan2 pilehan raya, kita akan dapat meng- hapuskan-nya daripada arina politik tanah ayer kita ini dengan tidak perlu dia mendatangkan tudohan2 untok me- naikkan diri-nya, menunjokkan betapa penting-nya dia ada di-dalam negeri mi.
Kita telah pun menchuba dan mengadu kekuatan dengan Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Kuala Langat itu di-dalam masa pilehan raya kechil di-Telok Datoh tempoh hari dalam mana chalun-nya yang tidak rasmi telah di-tewaskan de- ngan terok-nya oleh chalun Perikatan.
Jadi, dengan sebab2 ini, Tuan Penge- rusi, saya nampak tudohan Ahli Yang Berhormat itu tidak berharga dan dia sendiri tidak perchaya bahawa ada satu chubaan yang di-datangkan ka-atas diri-nya untok membahayakan nyawa- nya, atau membahayakan keselamatan- nya.

Kalau dia benar2 perchaya atas kebenaran perkara ini, tentu-lah dia telah menerima tawaran yang telah di- berikan oleh Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri.
Di-dalam uchapan-nya waktu dia mengadukan perkara ini dia telah memberitahu bahawa Yang Teramat Mulia Tunku Perdana Menteri telah menawarkan ka- pada beliau supaya di-beri kawalan untok menjaga keselamatan diri-nya, tetapi dia menolak.

mi menunjokkan bahawa Ahli Yang Berhormat itu ber- pura2 dan hendak menggunakan Dewan ini untok kepentingan diri-nya sendiri untok menghadapi pilehan raya yang akan datang.
Lagi satu perkara yang di-sebutkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat itu di- dalam uchapan-nya fadi berkenaan de- ngan soal sumpah.

Sa-bagai sa-orang Islam untok hendak menapikan sa- suatu perkara itu, maka tidak di-perlu- kan sumpah.

Jadi, menuntut sa-saorang itu bersumpah tidak ada kena-mengena dengan ugama Islam, dan ugama Islam ini di-dalam soal2 sumpah, dia patut mempelajari sa-belum dia menuntut sa- bahana-nya dan tidak boleh di- mengerti bagaimana hendak mengguna- kan sumpah itu.
Enche' Zulkiflee bin Muhammad (Bachok): Tuan Pengerusi, say a hendak berchakap sadikit sahaja ber- kenaan dengan Pejabat Penchegah Rasuah.

Kita telah mendengar dalam Dewan ini sa-malam bahawa beberapa tudohan2 yang berat telah di-datang- kan terhadap Kerajaan dan sa-bagai- nya, dan juga terhadap Pejabat Pen- chegah Rasuah ini sendiri.
Saya ber- pendapat, Tuan Pengerusi, bahawa oleh kerana keadaan rasuah dalam negeri ini ada-Iah satu perkara yang patut mendapat perhatian daripada Kerajaan, walau pun ada Ahli Yang Berhormat mengatakan sa-malam, ia- itu Ahli Yang Berhormat dari Larut Utara mengatakan yang rasuah dan pelachoran ini tidak akan dapat di- hapuskan, so al menghapuskan semua sa-kali, tetapi usaha yang ketat untok menghapuskan rasuah itu hendak-lah di-ambil berat oleh Kerajaan.
Ter- dahulu daripada ini, saya telah me- ngemukakan chadangan kapada Yang Berhormat Menteri supaya Pejabat Penchegah Rasuah itu di-perkemaskan sa-demikian rupa sa-hingga dia itu tidak dapat di-pengarohi oleh sa-siapa, dan saya telah menchadangkan supaya di-ikhtiarkan oleh Kerajaan bagi mem- bentok Jabatan Penchegah Rasuah ini sama saperti Jabatan Auditor-General yang mempunyai anggota2 yang ber- sendiri dan chara yang bersendiri serta bebas di-dalam menjalankan tugas2-nya dan besar dalam kuasa-nya.
Saya ingin mengulang chadangan ini, walau pun pada masa dahulu Yang Berhormat Menteri telah menjawab bahawa rasuah tidak-lah yang sa-demikian besar di- dalam negeri kita ini, tetapi oleh kerana perkembangan keadaan saperti ini elok-lah di-fikirkan chadangan yang saperti ittl supaya berseh pandangan orang .ramai terhadap mereka yang berseh dan dapat di-chegah rasuah terhadap mereka yang tidak berseh dalam soal rasuah mi.
Tuan Pengerusi, pada masa se- saorang itu mengangkat sumpah untok karang ini peruntokan rasuah ini menapikan sa-suatu perkara itu, kerana hanya bertambah sadikit sahaja dan sumpah itu di-dalam Islam besar kelengkapan2 serta chara2 bekerja-nya 4449 8 JANUARY 1964 4450 maseh saperti lama is-itu bergantong kapada kerjasama daripada pehak polis.
Tuan Pengerusi, polis sendiri tidak terlepas daripada rasuah dan oleh sebab yang demikian, saya rasa sudah pada masa dan tempat-nya yang per- kara ini di-kaji sa-mula oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri atas asas meng- ikhtiarkan terwujud-nya dalam negeri ini satu badan yang tidak dapat di- perkotak-katekkan oleh sa-siapa pun dalam menchegah rasuah.
Tuan Pengerusi, penchegah terhadap rasuah yang menjadi soal kapada orang ramai pads, masa ini is-lab per- hatian di-beri kapada rasuah2 yang kechil, tetapi ada-lah sadikit perhatian yang di-beri kapada rasuah2 yang besar.

Kita dapat menjawab bahawa tidak ada bukti dalam rasuah yang besar itu yang menyebabkan kita tidak dapat bertindak.
Maka di-sini-lah ka-ahlian dan kechekapan serta ka- sempurnaan anggota2 Jabatan Pen- chegah Rasuah ini penting, sebab orang yang mendapat rasuah yang banyak tentu-lah orang yang pandai dan tentu-Iah orang yang chekap serta lichin Pula dan tidak-lah dapat di- atasi dengan sa-mata2 mengirimkan sa-orang penyiasat kechil untok me- ngetahui rasuah yang besar.

Jadi, per- kara ini saya berharap mendapat perhatian.
Tuan Pengerusi, muka 326, butiran 25 Perkhidmatan Rahsia ada-lah men- dapat peruntokan yang lebeh banyak pada tahun mi.
Saya tidak tabu bagaimana-kah chara perkhidmatan rahsia ini di jalankan, tetapi yang, penting bagi saya is-lah di-dalam membelanjakan wang yang sademikian ;banyak, perkara yang saya akui mustahak-nya di-adakan di-dalam keadaan bagini sulit bagi kita menyiasat di-d clam membelanj akan wang itu patut-fah Kementerian ini menyiasat lebeh dahulu penyiasatan2- nya sebab kita memberikan wang dan kira juga menerima laporan daripada orange yang saperti ini sama ada orange itu di-dalam jawatan atau di- luar yang bekerja.
sambil2an dengan Keraj aan, kebersehan diri mereka, perasangka2 dan kekotoran fikiran hendak-lah di-jamin lebeh dahulu.

Saya katakan ini sebab kita dapati di-dalam gulongan orange yang men- jalankan tugas2 saperti ini is-Iah mereka2 yang sudah kechiwa di- lapangan lain.

Saya perchaya ada kechenderongan daripada Jabatan2 Police Force me- nyerahkan kerja2 saperti ini bagi mereka2 yang tidak fikirkan lebeh mengerjakan kerja2 lain dengan chara chekap dan memuaskan.
Maka per- khidmatan rahsia ini menjadi per- khidmatan mengelirukan sa-kira-nya ini tidak dapat di-yakinkan lebeh dahulu.

Pernah satu report saya ke- tahui yang di-kenakan atas sa-orang Police Officer dalam masa sa-tahun is-itu dalam persidangan Budget yang sudah.

Report itu menga.takan bahawa Police Officer itu telah menjadikan rumah-nya tempat bersidang orange yang menyokong pemberontakan Azahari, sa-kurang2-nya tempat per- jumpaan.
Tuan Pengerusi, mujor-lah report itu di-sampaikan dan kemudian= nya Ketua Polis di-Kuala Lumpur telah memanggil bagi Polis yang kechil bertanyakan hal itu.

Saya sen- diri dapat melihat daripada keadaan report yang diiunakan itu nyata bahawa mereka yang memberi per- kh idmatan rahsia tidak mengetahul hujong pangkal apa yang di-buat dan di-lihat di-dapati orang, turun dari rumah di-chatetkan report-nya pan- jang2.
Perkara saperti ini tentu-lah, Tuan Pengerusi, akan membawa ka- pada pengeliruan yang akan meng- akibatkan kesusahan kapada orange yang tidak bersalah.

Jadi izinkan saya berkata, di-dalam perkhidmata.n rahsia ini mereka2 yang sudah frustrated orange yang kechiwa di-dalam pe- kerjaan-nya maka bakul sampahkan mereka di-dalam kerja2 mengintip menchari rahsia dan sa-bagai-nya.
Kalau Jabatan lain chawangan dan chabang2 kerja Polis menghajatkan kechergasan dia mengintip di-dalam kerja2 serta, pandai pula maka Jabatan ini ada-lah lebeh baik kerana ini ada- lah berhubong dengan kehidupan orange terutama orange yang di-shaki oleh Polis ini sendiri.

Enche' Chia Thye Poh (Singapore): Mr Chairman, Sir, I would likes to say a few words on the Malaysian Police estimates for Singapore and also wish 4451 8 JANUARY 1964 4452 to raise the matter of the, treatment of political detainees.
Sir, there are over 130 political detainees in Singapore and they are being subjected to brutal conditions of detention.

it has been argued that the detention of these persons is necessary to bar them from political activities on grounds of security.

In fact, the poli- tical leaders of Singapore are being ill-treated.

They are not only being deprived of their liberty without a trial, but are also being punished without being convicted of any offence.
Bad living conditions, intolerable food, de- privation of visitors and petty humilia- tions are only part of the story.

Solitary confinement beyond the limits per- mitted in civilised countries, beyond what is permitted by law to punish convicted criminals who' committed violence, together with psychological brutality have become the standard practice of the Special Police.

There is no doubt that the purpose is to produce physical and mental breakdown in these men and women.
In the past, we have seen this as' part of the political revenge of the P.A.P.

We want to see how long the Central Government intends to continue this.

There is a harvest of hate from such actions which are hardening the divisions amongst our people.

As the French discovered in Algeria, once you set the Secret Police in the course of brutality on whatever justification, you have started a cancer that will eat into the entire society.
Sir, the new estimates provide for an increase in the Police strength in Singapore.

Already there is plenty of evidence of force in Singapore in the shape of British troops, Gurkha troops, Gurkha Police, Federation Regiment, Federal Reserve Police, in addition to the Singapore Regiment, thq Singapore Police and Police Reserve, the Singa- pore Riot Squad, the Special Police, teurs, who have infiltrated into every society, every union and every school.
The tapping of telephones, the inter- ference with letters, the destruction of the legitimate political literature in the mails all this presumably requires a large staff and plenty of money.

The most flagrant use of police for party purposes has been the normal state of affairs in Singapore.

The F.A.P.

would not survive many days without the police that terrorise the people of Singapore.
Days after the formation of Malaysia, the Central Government was involved in breaking up the protest strike against the cancellation of the registration.

of the seven biggest unions in Singapore and the legitimate strike of the naval base workers for the betterment of their working conditions.

The police went round the city break- ing up the pickets and beating up the workers.

At no time had the workers caused any disturbances although the provocations were very great.
By this action the Government is bringing into contempt the constitutional process.

And at Nanyang University, a few days ago the police invaded the campus in an attempt to provoke trouble.

Mem- bers may remember how two months ago another band of police invaded Nanyang University, arrested some students, beat up many others some of them had to be admitted in hospital for severe internal injuries and molested women students.
Sir, there must be thinking people on the Govern- ment benches who must be disturbed at the thought of where all this is going to lead to.

The present method of ruling Singapore is reminiscent of the French in Algeria and the Portuguese in Angola.

This is not the way to solve political problems, which can only be solved by recognising the right of the people of Singapore to determine the future for themselves.

etc.
etc.

Increasing the amount of armed hormat, saya telah di-beritahu oleh force in Singapore is a bankrupt res- Menteri Keselamatan Dalam Negeri Mr Chairman: Ahli 2 Yang Ber- ponse to a political problem.

Sir, the large discretionary funds that are being asked for are presumably sebutkan di-dalam Majlis ini.
Saya for the purposes of financing the net- dapati ada lebeh kurang 5 orang Ahli work of informers , agents , provoca- Yang Berhormat lagi yang hendak dia akan mengambil masa lebeh kurang 40 minit kerana hendak men- jawab segala panda.ngan2 yang di- 4453 8 JANUARY 1964 4454 berchakap.

Jadi saya merayu-lah tiap2 instructions of the employer, who sa-orang itu berchakap sa-berapa brings in black legs and deprives pendek supaya memberi peluang ka- persuasion to the workers on strike.
pada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang lain.

This is daily increasing and ultimately Enche' V. David: Mr Chairman, Sir, this is one of the Ministries under which many speakers who really believe in the true sense of democracy would like to speak, but unfortunately in view of the short time allocated for these estimates I would like to confine on certain vital matters which would be of interest to this House.
Sir, the previous speaker from Singapore did speak his mind on the interference of the Federal Police in industrial disputes.

I have reason to support this as far as the Naval Base Union is concerned.

The strike which took place a few weeks back in Singapore Naval Base was intimidated and destroyed by the use of the Federal Police.
The Singapore Government became very clever by shifting the responsibility to the Federal Government, stating that the Federal Police were on the scene and therefore it was not the responsibility of the Singapore Government.

Mr Chairman, Sir, if legitimate strikes are interferred with by the police, it amounts to that no trade unions in this country can survive and that no trade unions can stage a strike in support for better wages and conditions of employment.
I am of the opinion that the trade unions will be completely destroyed by the police force of this country.

Sir, the previous speaker did speak about the employment of secret agents.

The Minister of Internal Security is beginning to assume the role of Dr Goebbels; not only that, he is carrying on with his witch-hunting as the late McCarthy did.

McCarthism is spreading in this country.


Every constitutional step taken by any progressive member either in this House or outside this House is being scrutinised and usually he is screened with a view of detaining him because he holds opposite views to the ruling party in power.

Enche' Ibrahim bin Abdul Rahman (Seberang Tengah): The Honourable Member keeps on looking to the other side.

I do not know whether there are two Chairmen here (Laughter).

Mr Chairman: That is a very small matter.


Will you face me, please.

Enche' V. David : I thought he was going to raise a serious point.

Mr Chairman : Never mind, no comment !

Sir, the Prime Minister has often said Enche' V. David: Sir, today we are that this House is a symbol of demo- faced with the problem of our con- cracy.

It is really a shame that these science on one side and the law on the words do not contain the right spirit other.

There is a conflict in our mind.

and the right meaning.


Day after day Are we to speak the truth?

If we are to police interference in strikes have speak the truth, we are heading towards increased tremendously.

The police detention and arbitrary arrest.

It makes interference in the Naval Base strike men in this country to become hypo- was immediately communicated to the crites.
On one side their conscience Prime Minister by the union concerned, says--even in the case of the members as well as to the Minister of Internal of the ruling party that arbitrary Security.

No action was taken.

The detention, preventive detention, is police abetted and aided the Naval Base undemocratic; and, on the other, fear commander in breaking open the union has been created in the minds of the premises and also destroying all docu- people.
Anyone expressing their feelings, ments of the union without any regard their conscience are liable to be detained to the union, which was registered.

Mr under one pretext or another.

Sir, Chairman, Sir, the same has been extended now to the Federation.

The moment a strike takes place in any people who have been arrested are faced with torture and ill-treatment.
Secrecy has become so intense that the industry the riot squad is called upon, detainees are not even told what crimes the employer is protected by the riot they are supposed to have committed.

squad and the riot squad acts on the All who hold opposite views to the 4455 8 JANUARY 1964 4456 Government party in power have been intimidated.

This is becoming in fact the routine background of the Alliance Government in power.
Sir, the Government with its unrestricted powers have often misused them and betrays the normal course of justice in this country.

We do not like to act in breach of the law, but if the law itself is not democratic in nature, and if its structure is going to persecute peace-loving people in this country, we have no other alternative except to challenge this in this House.

We feel, Sir, that this law is immoral and unjust.

We have repeated this in this House on several occasions.
The Government, in spite of all opposition, have continued to adopt a policy of detaining all those who do not contribute to their views.

The Honourable Member for Setapak has been detained; I am sure he himself does not know what offence he has committed.

He was arrested because of his increasing popularity among the people, and today he has been barred in spite of elections to be held in the hear future.
Mr Chairman, Sir, I call upon the Minister to release the detainees, those who have been arrested, and repeal the Internal Security Act, and then assess the feelings of the people by having democratic elections.

Then you will know where the Alliance Government and Dr Goebbels in the Government bench will stand.

Today with the immense fear created in the minds of voters and also in the minds of the public, they are unable to express freely for fear of being detained.
Sir, once again my Party continues to deplore the Internal Security Act as a law designed purposely to curb the activities of the Opposition and also to persecute all free thinking men in this country.

Enche' Mohamed Dun bin Banir (Sabah): Tuan Pengerusi, saya bangun hendak berchakap sadikit sahaja dalam Dewan yang mulia ini untok meng- alukan2 perbelanjaan yang telah di- shorkan oleh Menteri yang berkenaan.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya hendak berchakap di-dalam Dewan yang mulia ini ber- kenaan dengan orange Indonesia yang ada di-Sabah pada masa ini sa-banyak lobeh kurang 10,000 orang yang men- jadi buroh di-ladang2 getah atau pun di-kebun kayu.

Atas kedatangan mereka ka-Sabah itu ada-lah baik kapada pekebun2 getah atau pun pekebun2 kayu, tetapi kebaikan itu pula bertukar menjadi kejahatan kapada Kerajaan Sabah dan ra`ayat-nya.
Kerana atas kedatangan mereka itu saya khuatir menjadi satu jarum politik Soekarno untok meruntohkan Kerajaan yang baharu munchol is-itu Malaysia, dari itu saya merayu dalam Dewan yang mulia ini orange Indonesia yang berada di-Sabah itu akan tidak di-terima dan hendak-lah di-keluarkan dari Sabah.
Tuan Pengerusi, saya juga meng- alukan2 kerja2 bagi pehak pegawai keamanan is-itu polis untok mengawal keselamatan di-dalam negeri, maka atas tanggong-jawab mereka itu tentu sa- kali-lah bagi pehak ra`ayat sangat2 terhutang budi yang mana mereka itu kuat dan ta`at setia dan tidak berpechah- belah untok mempertahankan untong nasib negara jangan sampai kalah.
Maka di-sini saya suka j uga berkata sadikit dalam Dewan ini is-itu baharu sa-bentar tadi saya telah mendengar uchapan Yang Berhormat dari Singa- pura atau pun pehak Pembangkang mengatakan polis hendak mengganggu dan menangkap mereka dan lain2 perkara atas perkara2 yang hendak mereka buat.

Tetapi saya suka menarek perhatian atas perkara ini is-itu Ahli2 Yang Berhormat yang berkata itu tentu sa-kali-lah sudah bersalah, sebab tiap2 orang yang bersalah mereka takut.
Kalau orang yang benar tentu sa-kali tidak merayu dalam Dewan yang mulia mi.

Oleh yang demikian, saya perchaya mereka itu tentu sa-kali mengadakan kesalahan yang tertentu di-dalam perkara yang mereka telah jalankan.

Mereka itu mengatakan murid Nanyang di-tangkap, sebab-nya di-tempat itu barangkali ada beneh Kominis di-situ.

Jadi dari itu tentu-lah polis menjalan- kan tugas yang telah di-beri oleh ketua- nya untok mempertahankan maruah Kerajaan Malaysia.
Jadi, sa-takat ini-lah sahaja yang saya dapat katakan, oleh sebab, Tuan Pengerusi, tidak memberi izin berchakap lama.

Jadi saya menyokong penoh atas 4457 8 JANUARY 1964 4458 perbelanjaan yang telah di-shorkan oleh Menteri yang berkenaan atas perkara yang tersebut itu.

Enche' Ho See Beng (Singapore): Mr Chairman, Sir, I rise to associate myself in support of the Government in respect of the sum allocated for expen- diture for the Ministry of Internal Security.
In a time of national crisis, I believe that no one, if he thinks that he is a Malaysian, should object to the expenditure for this important item, especially when President Soekarno is -emitting sulphur gas to poison the Malaysian region.

Sir, I think that as we have already gone through quite a lot of debate and argument on this item, I need not have to speak further.

But as certain Mem- Supply Head S. 39 that I would like to speak.
Some time ago, the Premier of Singapore stated that he gave two weeks to the "Plen", who was the communist boss in Singapore, to escape.

He stated that he gave full particulars in respect of the "Plen" to the Honour- able the Minister of Internal Security.
Since confrontation has been influenced by the communists, will the Honourable the Minister kindly inform the House on the following points : who was the "Plen", where was he from, whether or not the "Plen" plays an active part in the confrontation, and whether the decision to allow the "Plen" to escape was made with the consent of the Central Government.
Mr Chairman, Sir, a very large bers from Singapore have touched on number of subversive elements were something about the Peoples' Action held in Singapore; and if the "Plen" Party Government using the Police to was the communist boss, then why was defeat them, in order to make the the decision made by the Singapore Peoples' Action Party win the elections.

Government to allow the "Plen" to it seems that it is the destiny of the escape?
This, I think, is an important Peoples' Action Party to fight its question, and the people of this country, Opposition Party everywhere not only in these dark hours, would surely like in Singapore; so the scene of the politi- cal fight has to be brought here again today.

Sir, the February arrest, as everyone 'knows, involved a large number of people, but the people of Singapore were not disturbed at all by this arrest.
If this arrest was a wrongful one, I think, you will agree with me, Sir, that it will be reflected in the recent general elections.

The Barisan Sosialis would have won the elections, if the people said that the arrest was wrong.

(Applause).

You will recollect, Sir, there was also a big arrest during the Lim Yew Hock's Government and, as a result, the Lim Yew Hock's Government collapsed in 1959.

From this comparison, it is not difficult to draw the conclusion whether the to know the answer.
I hope, therefore, the Honourable the Minister will kindly give the reasons so that the people will know the true facts about the "Plen" and whether or not the "Plen" was, in fact, a person in reality.

The Minister of Internal Security and Minister of the Interior (Dato' Dr Ismail): (Rises).

Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of information.

Just .

Mr Chairman : Not a very long one?


Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: No, just to say this : I have already gone to the High Street Police Station and made a report.

Mr Chairman: (To Dato' Dr Ismail) arrest was justified or not justified.

Please proceed.

Sir, another allegation made was that the Police had ill-treated political prisoners.

To this I would say that just recently Mr James Puthucheary and his brother Dominic Puthucheary had themselves admitted that they were quite well treated.
Thank you, Sir.

Enche' Chin See Yin (Seremban Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, every time the subject of my Ministry comes up, be it in the Budget debate, or in any other dabate, it always arouses very interesting debate, and I do not think the House can complain that it is a very dull Ministry.

Now, Sir, I would like as far as I can to reply to every Timor): Mr Chairman, Sir, it 15 011 Member who has spoken.
4459 8 JANUARY 1964 4460 Sir, the Honourable Enche' Ling made a report to the Police, the Police Beng Siew brought up the subject that made investigations and gave him there is no increase in the senior staff protection and, in fact, he himself of Police in Sarawak and the shortage acknowledged that he was grateful to of the Special Branch personnel.

Now, the Police who have established a Sir, I entirely agree with the comments Police post near his house.
In addition of the Honourable Member, but as he to that, of course, he has the spiritual will recall in my speech I pointed out help of his religious teacher that will that due to shortage of time my protect him, probably make him Ministry accepted the estimates put invincible to any assault.

(Laughter).

forward by the Sarawak Government.


I assure the Honourable Member that I am fully alive to the need of streng- thening of the Special Branch not only in Sarawak but also in Sabah; and the supplementary estimates, of which I spoke, will include an adequate increase in Police personnel in the various ranks employed by the Special Branch.

Now, in regard to his comment on the S.U.P.P.


ridding itself of com- munist sympathisers, I think, I have made this point quite clear in one of my speeches in this session that I entirely agree with him and that I have already assured the leader of the S.U.P.P.

that the Special Branch will only be too willing to give him that assistance, if he only has the courage to rid his Party of these communists.

Now, Sir, I come now to the Honourable Member for Kuala Langat.
I think my colleague, the Honourable the Deputy Prime Minister, has ade- quately replied to his allegations, and also this is vigorously supplemented by the Honourable Member for Johor Tenggara.

I only would like to add that, as the Minister of Internal Security, he seems to confuse me.
It is not often that I am confused, but in this case I am not only confused, but I wonder whether it is due to the fact that the Honourable Member is Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of explanation, he is im- puting motives.

There is no such thing as spiritual help or something, Sir.

It was advice.

I never mentioned anything about spiritual help or any other type of help, but it was advice.

I think it is rather presumptuous for the Honour- able Minister to .
Mr Chairman : But, if you think that the Minister is trying to impute im- proper motives, you should have stood up on a point of order not on a point of clarification.

Please proceed.

Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Chairman, Sir, I only mean that in my own conclusion of his having visited his religious teacher, because usually when a Malay sees a religious teacher he goes there to get " `azimat" to protect him from evildoers (Laughter) or from people who intend to do him harm.
Enche' Abdul Aziz bin Ishak: Sir, on a point of explanation.

Mr Chairman : (To Dato' Dr Ismail) Do you give way?

Dato' Dr Ismail: I do not mind, provided it is not too long !

Mr Chairman : We have only 25 minutes more to debate on this Head.

Make it shorter.
Make it shorter.

Enche' Abdul Aziz: As a matter of suffering from a persecution complex, fact, Sir, the Deputy Prime Minister or whether the Honourable Member is sent for him and he stayed with the what we say in Malay, "Gila Talak" Deputy Prime Minister for two days : that means when you divorce your the first question that the Deputy lovely wife and because you pine for Prime Minister asked him was, whether her, you suddenly get out of your mind.
I went to see my Guru in order to Of course, I refer to the fact that he.

topple the Alliance Government.

has been expelled from the Alliance Party.

Now, Sir, I think we need not worry too much the safety of the Honourable Member for Kuala Langat Dato' Dr Ismail: I need not dwell much longer on that.

Mr Chairman : I am not interested in because, as you can see, every time he that at all.

4461 8 JANUARY 1964 4462 Datu' Dr Ismail : No, Sir, I think we had better leave him to whatever com- plex he has.
I would go on to answer the observations made by the Honour- able Member for Ipoh.

Now, Sir, in regard to the Honourable Member for Ipoh, it is sometimes very difficult to answer his observations, because they are couched sometimes in legal, and sometimes not so legal terms, and they always convey more than one meaning.

So, I will try my best to answer what I interpret his observations mean to convey.

He has accused the Anti-Corruption Agency of misinform- ing the Prime Minister.
The Honourable Member for Ipoh has stated, or has used words to the effect, that in the Prevention of Corruption Act laws are specially made whereby an anonymous report can be investigated into and the evidence of one person, if believed by the Court although uncorroborated, is sufficient to convict another person.

As regards the first part, the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1961, makes the offences of corruption seizable offences.
Any report of corruption can be inves- tigated by the Police by using the powers of investigation of seizable offences under the Criminal Procedure Code and also those under the Act of 1961.

Some of the reports received are anonymous, but in order to invoke the powers under the Code, formal reports had to be made in writing in accordance with the provisions of the Code.

Only anonymous reports that are clear and more specific can be investigated, but reports that are vague are useless.
As has been stated in this House, over two hundred cases have been brought to book in the Courts since 1959.

Had it not been for these special powers, it might not have been possible to reach this figure.

As regards the second part of that observation, this is a legal point, and I am told that it is not only known to the Member for Ipoh, but which I am sure the Attorney-General himself is also fully conversant.
Whether any particular case should go for trial on an uncorroborative evidence of a person, is for the Attorney-General to decide on the legal as well as the factual aspects of the case.

Now, his second observation was that the Anti-Corruption Agency should perform its duties impartially and should convey the truth to the Prime Minister.

He goes on to say that the Agency had not told the truth in its letter to the Prime Minister, which was read out before the House recently.
Now, Sir, before touching on this letter issued by the Director of the Anti- Corruption Agency, I would like to explain to the House the actual roles that are being performed by the Agency in order to clear any doubts.
The Agency has to perform three main roles, namely (i) to co-ordinate anti-corruption measures throughout all Govern- ment Departments with a view to preventing opportunities for cor- ruption and corrupt practices; (ii) to educate the public on the evils of corruption and thereby incul- cate the feeling of contempt for those who indulge in corruption and corrupt practices; and (iii) to serve as a channel for the receipt of information or of allega- tions of corruption from members of the public.
The first role as is apparent deals mainly with preventive measures, and the second purely on educational as- pects.

Now, as a channel for receipt of information, contact can be made either through the post, or by telephone, or by personal interview.

Any information or allegation so received is passed on to the Special Crime Section of the Police for investigation.
Thereafter it becomes the responsibility of the Police to investigate and the Attorney-General, or his Deputy, to decide as to whether there should be any prosecution.

Now, Sir, there are many instances where reports are made direct to the Police without going through the Agency and more are received by the Police in this manner.

In fact, that is what actually happened in the particular case men- tioned by the Honourable Member for Ipoh.

He has mentioned Police Report No.


263 / 63 made in Jerantut, Pahang.

Now, this Report was not made by the Member for Ipoh, nor by any member of the public, but by a Police officer of the Special Crime Section, Pahang, 4463 8 JANUARY 1964 4464 subsequent to the accusation made by the Member for Ipoh against the Minister of Health before this House some time ago, and as a result of which there was a challenge by the said Minister that the Member for Ipoh repeat his accusation outside the House.
It is, therefore, glaring that the Member for Ipoh, having full and first-hand knowledge of the allegation, has failed to report to the Police but has chosen to seek the sanctuary of this House to accuse the Minister of Health of corrup- tion.

No doubt, he eventually accepted the Minister's challenge and repeated the accusation in public.
But, I am surprised that as a citizen of this country, and more than that as a legally qualified person, he should have failed in his duty to bring this to the notice of the Police, or the Anti-Corruption Agency.

Now, he has taken the advan- tage of again seeking the sanctuary of this House to accuse the Anti-Corrup- tion Agency of telling lies.
Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam (Meng- lembu): Sir, on a point of clarification, is the Honourable Minister denying that the complaints against the Minister of Health had not been made in writing earlier by other persons either to the Anti-Corruption Agency or to the Prime Minister himself?

Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I have said that it is the duty of the Member for Ipoh, as a citizen, to make a report to the Police.
It was only, Sir, after the Minis- ter's challenge that the Police came to know of this allegation through the reports in the Press the next day.

As a result, the Member for Ipoh was inter- viewed by the officer-in-Charge of the Special Crime, Enche' Yusoff, in Ipoh.

Subsequently, he was approached by another officer of the Special Crime to make a formal report.

This the Member for Ipoh flatly refused saying that he had already spoken to the Officer-in- Charge of the Special Crime he refused to do so.
Again, Sir, for the second time, the Honourable Member failed by refusing to make a report.

Now, it is clear that what has taken place was between the Member for Ipoh and the Police but not the Anti- Corruption Agency.
Thus the letter by the Director of the Agency was in clear and definite terms saying "As far as the Anti-Corruption Agency is concerned, there has been no allegation or report received from any source to the effect that a Minister or his wife has received $10,000 or any sum as bribery or corruption.

Up to date there is no record in the Agency concerning any allegation of bribery and corruption against any Minister or his wife."
There should be no question, there- fore, that the Anti-Corruption Agency has not acted impartially; nor could the accusation that the Agency has not told the truth in the matter be fair and justifiable in the circumstances.

Sir, the Honourable Member goes on to say that if the Anti-Corruption Agency says that the report made against the Minister of Health is false, why has the man not been charged for making a false report.
The Anti-Corruption Agency is not in a position to say that the report is false, nor is it an authority to say so or to decide that the man should be charged for making a false report, if any.

The Member for Ipoh should be well aware that the Attorney- General is the decisive authority.

Enche' S. P. Seenivasagam: On a point of clarification.

Could the Minis- ter tell us why the Attorney-General has not charged the man for making a false report?
Dato' Dr Ismail: I have no direct control on the Attorney-General.

But he is a legal man and it is up to him to decide on these legal things whether he should go on with it or not.

If I do that, then he will say I am directing 'the law.

Further he goes on to say that the Anti-Corruption Agency must have experts to deal with and probe into matters of corruption.

Then he asks, has the Agency got any experts?

That is one of his further observations.


The answer is that there is no question of experts being necessary in the detection and investigation of crimes generally.

Investigation is a police responsibility and not that of the Anti-Corruption Agency.

Corruption by itself is a crime and the police are sufficiently trained to investigate crimes of this nature.

Now, Sir, I come to the observation made by Enche' Tan Tsak Yu from 4465 8 JANUARY 1964 4466 wSarawak.
He mentioned the fact that the Special Branch in the Borneo terri- tories should be strenghtened and I think I have answered that observation earlier on in my reply.

Now we come to the speech by the Honourable Member for Kuala Treng- ganu Utara.

Jadi di-sini saya suka-lah hendak berchakap dalam bahasa Kebangsaan is-itu saya ini di-katakan menyalah gunakan Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.
Yang kedua, dia menerangkan is-itu dua orang alim ulama telah di- tangkap dan di-lepaskan dan tidak pula kita mengatakan ada-kah orang ini merbahaya kapada negeri.

Yang ketiga, is-itu kursus patut di-adakan kapada Special Branch Officer sebab apa kata- nya, Special Branch Officer ini tidak tahu ma`ana subversion atau ko- munism.

Yang keempat, dia kata is-itu orang tahanan ini mesti-lah di-beri makanan yang tidak ada tachun' di- dalam makanan itu.
Yang kelima, dia kata is-itu orang yang kena seksa mithal-rya tiga empat orange.

tahanan itu tidak renti2-nya.

Dan ta' usah-lah _pakai chara2 gastapo atas orange yang di-tahan itu.

j adikan huru hara negeri Kelantan.

Bagaimana yang telah saya katakan orang yang di-tangkap itu kemudian di-lepaskan pertama-nya dia hilang fikiran dan dia sendiri membuat ke- nyataan.
Saya di-sini ada naskhah kenyataan yang sudah di-tape record- ingkan tetapi oleh sebab tidak ada masa Ahli2 Yang Berhormat hendak mendengar, tetapi kalau berkehendak- kan juga kita boleh adakan satu per- jumpaan dan kita boleh dengar record- ing yang telah di-buat itu.

Dan jika ada masa kita boleh membacha chadangan yang di-bawa oleh sa-orang daripada Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dari PAS.

Saya berani membachakan dan Ahli2 Yang Berhormat dalam rumah ini boleh mendengar recording yang telah di-buat itu.
Saya perchaya is-itu tangkapan yang di-bust itu bukan-lah kita hendak menindas PAS.

Perkara itu di-buat-nya is-itu mengelakkan huru-hara terjadi dalam negeri Kelantan.

Dan .

atas me- lepaskan orang yang saya chakapkan tadi, kerana ada report daripada doctor is-itu mengatakan jika dia di-tahan dan di-soal, dia juga akan hilang akal.
Dengan sebab tidak di-katakan men- -j adi merbahaya lagi dia di-lepaskan dengan chara peri kemanusiaan tetapi j ika di-buat lagi apa yang di-lakukan- Yang pertama sa-kali, saya hendak nya saya sedia menangkap-nya.

berchakap terus terang is-itu saya tidak terima sa-kali2 tudohan yang menga- takan saya ini salah gunakan Undang2 Keselamatan Dalam Negeri.
Saya selalu mengatakan is-itu Undang2 ini telah di-perbuat oleh Parlimen dengan chara demokrasi dan saya sa-bagai sa-orang Menteri chuma menjalankan Undang2 itu dengan sa-berapa daya upaya saya clan saya perchaya negeri2 telah per- chaya dengan jalan2 yang saya telah jalankan kerja saya itu.

Saya tiap2 kali di-soal tentang tangkapan yang di-buat berkenaan dengan ulama ini chuma di- chakapkan yang dua orang sahaja te- tapi yang sa-benar-nya ada tiga orang.
Yang sa-orang lagi itu is-lah saya tidak suka hendak mengatakan di-sini is-itu oleh sebab dia sekarang telah hilang fikiran dan telah masok ka-Tanjong Rambutan.
Saya hendak berchakap terus-terang di-sini is-itu alim ulama yang di-tangkap di-sana itu is-lah saya katakan kerana dia menjalankan satu kerja atau gerakan yang akan men- Di-katakan kursus ini patut di- adakan supaya orange Special Branch ini tahu ma`ana subversion supaya jangan di-takut2kan party politik yang halal tudohan2 menjalankan subversion kapada Kerajaan.
Saya sangat2 megah kapada pehak polis kita kerana ada juga daripada ahli party Alliance party saya sendiri, kadang2 menga- takan polis ini tidak betul, jadi mana hendak saya dengar, pehak party saya- kah atau party PAS atau party2 lain.

Ini ada-lah menunjokkan pehak polls itu bekerja dengan tidak timbang sa- belah mana pun.

Di-atas soalan orange yang di-tang- kap itu di-beri makan boleh jadi di- katakan ada mengandongi rachun.
Tudohan sa-macham ini telah di-buat oleh salah sa-orang daripada party Pembangkang is-itu party Socialist Front.

Saya telah kaji dan telah di- pereksa is-itu jika betul-lah yang makanan itu telah di-berikan yang 4467 8 JANUARY 1964 4468 boleh merosakkan kepala, merosakkan kesihatan orang tahanan itu, berapa banyak-kah orang yang dalam tahanan itu fikiran -nya tidak hilang dan semua tidak mati ?

(Tepok).
(Tepok).

Dan tiga orang yang telah di -lepaskan itu pula mereka memuji bagaimana baik layanan yang telah di-berikan kapada mereka itu.

Saya tahu -lah apa ma`ana diayah ini tetapi tidak payah -lah saya keluarkan nanti di-tudoh yang lain pula.

Di-atas soal ini banyak juga Ahli2 Yang Ber- hormat yang lain hendak tahu jadi patut-lah saya berchakap dalam bahasa Inggeris.

It was alleged that the Special Branch adopted these archaic methods of torture to extract evidence from detainees .
Now, Sir, it has beer proved in many countries that torture is no longer an effective instrument if you really want to extract the truth from a person whom you have detained.

This has been proved, and why should we in this democratic country try this archaic and inhuman method when it has not been proved to be effective.
Atas satu tegoran Yang Berhormat dari Kulim Utara is-itu supaya police station di-adakan di-Badak dekat Baling kerana ada satu pertubohan siasah yang baharu yang telah meng- gunakan chara2 paksa dan meng- khianat orang di-sana, saya akan siasat-lah atas soal itu.

Now, I come to my old friend, the Honourable Member for Tanjong.
He tried to lecture to me on how a Minister of His Majesty 's Government should behave, basing his thesis on the fact that I had misbehaved myself by issuing threats to Members of this House and to political opponents, so that they could not effectively follow their legal political activities .

He cited the case that I even twisted the gesture made by his Party when he made a statement that he offered coalition with the Government on this matter.
Sir, unfortunately , the Honourable Member has a bads habit of disappear- ing from this House every time after making a speech , and consequently he could not follow what I said in relation to what he said in regard to this offer of coalition Government , as he was not here at that time .

However, as he is here today , I will tell him exactly what I said about his offer of national Coalition .

I said, Sir, "When we heard him speak , we were at first rather attracted .
Now, Sir, I think we can all echo to that statement if that is all that that statement implies ."

Then I went on to say , "But the Honourable Member for Tanjong qualified that statement ."

Having explained that wonderful sentiment of having a national Coalition , laying aside all political differences , he made a further qualification .
After having said that the nation is divided and all ' that , he went on to say, and I quote : "Let us make a national effort to establish peace with honour in this part of the world.

We ask the Honourable Prime Minister, as one gesture of sincerity, to release all political prisoners detained without trial."

Sir, I am, entitled to make my own conclusion to that kind of gesture.
On one hand you say, "We will co - operate with you" while on the other hand you say, " Release all these detainees who have been subverting the country", Now, what kind of gesture is that?

If you say , "Well, we will co-operate with you; form a coalition Government; we will stand behind you unqualified."

Then, I accept .
Then, I accept .

But the statement made was, "Release those detainees" people who were put inside , people who were trying to subvert the country, and who were trying to help the very cause of Indonesia as the member for Setapak has done.

What kind of gesture is this?

Now, Sir, he accused me of trying to intimidate Honourable Members on the Opposition by threatening them with arrest .
Sir, I always warn the Barisan so many Opposition parties now have the same flavour that I have made a slip of the tongue .

Sir, I always warn the Socialist Front that, "If you consciously or unconsciously associate with the Communists or pro -Commu- nists in time to come they will infect you with their way of thinking."

This is what has happened to the Honoura- ble Member for Tanjong.

He has twisted everything that I said.


I said "twisted" because what I actually said is, "I warn Honourable Members that if they go against the Internal Security Act as Members of Parliament, I will 4469 8 JANUARY 1964 4470 have no hesitation in arresting them."

(Applause) What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong, Sir.


It is better that I warn him (Laughter) saying that if he were to do this thing then he will be arrested rather than to take him quietly, when he has done the act, at 2 o'clock in the morning.

The Hon- ourable Member should be grateful to me rather than trying to give me a lecture on how a Minister should behave.

Now, Sir, I am glad that he accepted the challenge that his Party would go to the next election on this Internal Security Act.
But it is ridiculous for him to challenge me that I should go to the people and say : "You elect me, and I will deliver war."

What kind of insanity there is in that kind of sugges- tion?

(Laughter) It is ridiculous.

That is why, Sir, I warn Honourable Mem- bers again : "Please do your best to get rid of the Communists from your party, so that you will not be infected by them and have this type of thinking and this hallucination."

Now, Sir, I think enough has been said for the Honourable Member.
I totally reject his accusation that I have not behaved myself and that ridiculous challenge of his that I should go to the country saying that I will deliver war to them if they elect me to this House.

Enche' Tan Phock Kin (Tanjong): On a point of clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir.

Mr Chairman : We have very little time.

If you want to make an explana- tion make it as short as possible.
Enche' Tan Phock Kin: I am afraid, Sir, that in the course of his reply, the Honourable Minister of Internal Security either consciously or uncon- sciously, or perhaps deliberately, evade answering many important points raised by me.

Instead he chose to side- track the whole issue by introducing irrelevant arguments in his reply and by trying to make fun of some of the allegations.

Mr Chairman : What is the point you want to clarify?
Enche' Tan Phock Kin : I want the Honourable Minister of Internal Securi- ty to state, as I mentioned yesterday, whether it is the view of the Govern- ment that as far as the Government is concerned, it does not need any assis- tance whatsoever from the, Opposition, and that it is quite prepared to go it alone, as far as this issue of Indonesian confrontation is concerned; whether it is its desire that we should go to war now; whether it is the desire of the Government that it can only solve the problem by going to war; and whether the Minister concerned is in a position to speak for his Government, because it seems to me that in spite of his explanation, there appears to be a very clear contradiction between his reply and those given by the Honourable the Prime Minister.
Dato' Dr Ismail: I am glad the Honourable Member has given me a chance to reply to that point.

First and foremost, there is no difference of opinion at all.

It is just a matter of the way of saying the same thing.

Now, the Prime Minister, in his generosity, says : "There is( no war, so there is no need for coalition."

In his generous manner he said it that way.

The Deputy Prime Minister says : "Well, if you support the Government, there is no necessity for coalition."
But I, in my own frank way, Sir, I told him : "We reject that kind of coalition because it is conditional on the release of these saboteurs and these traitors."

(Applause) There is no difference at all.

So, I have answered him, I think.

Now, I come to the Honourable Member for Sarawak, Enche' Edmund Langgu anak Saga.

If I get him, right, he said we should engage more Special Branch officers.

I think I have given that assurance.


The other observation, which is by Wan, Abdul Rahman from Sarawak, is about the inadequacy of psycho- logical warfare and the Department of Information, and that expatriate officers should not usurp the role of Minis- ters and political leaders.

Sir, as regards the psychological warfare, we are much alive to this problem.

I must inform this House that the Government is making an urgent study or examination of the!

requirement.
requirement.

Regarding the 4471 8 JANUARY 1964 4472 comment that expatriate officers in the Borneo territories are usurping the role of Ministers and political leaders, I am afraid I do not understand what the Honourable Member means to convey, but if he would be kind enough to write to me, I will certainly look into the matter.

Now, Sir, I come to the observation from the Member for Pasir Puteh.
He began , I think, by speaking on anti- corruption matters, and I will bear in mind all the suggestions that he has made.

However, as regards his expres- sion of regret that the post of Inspector- General of Police being held by an expatriate and not by a Malaysian, I think I have made the position clear in my answer to that question.
As I have said , we need all the officers that we require, and it is common sense to retain the present Inspector - General of Police , not because our officers are not qualified but , as I said , because of his experience , his long association with the Police and with us ; it is because of the confidence in him and the con- sent of all officers that he will remain as our Inspector- General of Police until the time comes when we re- enforce our staffing position then his place will be taken over by a local man.
Then, Sir, he mentioned that the Police are not impartial in carrying out their duties, particularly in Kelantan.

He said that the Police have been an obstacle to people holding discussion group, which is not a public meeting in Kelantan, in that the Police started interfering and all that.

Sir, this is an allegation which is always made against the Police.

Rather than making a general allegation in this House, if any specific instance is reported to me, straightaway I will look into the matter.
Sir, as regards the arrests of religious teachers, I think I have replied ade- quately on that subject.

Now, I would like to reply to the Member for Bachok.

I think he is under the misconception that the secret service codes are really used by the such thing as a Secret Service in the Federation of Malaysia, and so the question of secret service codes being abused is not true.
In regard to the observations made by the Honourable Enche' Chia Thye Poh, the spokesman for the Barisan Sosialis, I am very grateful to the Honourable Enche' Ho See Beng for his adequate reply on that aspect of the observation on pre-Malaysia Day.

Sir, I would like again to warn Honourable Members -I do not care whether they say that I threaten them or not.
I would like to warn Honourable Mem- bers that any attempt to besmirch our Police or throw mud at our Police will carry no weight in the Federation, because the Police here have a high reputation and are very well regarded by the public.
The Police here are regarded as a friend of the public, and so any attempt by the Honourable Member to besmirch our Police here will result in the Honourable Member getting a very raw deal not from me but from members of the public, especially when so many members of his Party have not, figuratively speak- ing, been in tune with the thinking of the majority of the people in this country.
So, I treat this as a warning, or friendly advice better take my advice early rather than regret later on as some of the Members of the Barisan Sosialis have cause to regret.

It is better to heed my warning early.

Now, Sir, of course, the Honourable Member for Bungsar has as usual disappeared after he delivered his speech he is always keen.

to hear his own voice but not keen to hear the replies made to his observations.
Now, he has brought up the usual perennial about the Police abusing their power, that I am a Goebbels, Gestapo Chief, and that the Police are keen on breaking up legal strike so many of these perennials keep on cropping up whenever the Honourable Member speaks.

Sir, we all know that so far as this country is concerned, at least in the Semenunjong we have trade unions free to direct their activities so long as they conform within the law.

Sir, whenever Secret Service.


Well, I would like to the Police interfere it is only to preserve inform this House that there is no security and order not to break up a 4473 8 JANUARY 1964 4474 strike.

But, if the Honourable Member had a different interpretation, in other words that the Police should keep quiet whenever there is a strike even when there is a disturbance, there is insecurity, then I am sorry that we cannot agree with him : the Police will have to do its duty to keep order in the country.
It does not matter whatever accusation the Honourable Member may falsely hurl at the Police.

We know that the country will be with the Government and the people will stick with the Police.

The same Honourable Member also mentioned about causing physical injury and that they should use peace- ful persuasion .

Now, Sir, the Police I am proud to say that they are not eunuchs, they are not ladies are here as policemen , who are prepared to enforce the law whenever necessary.
I do not understand what is meant by peaceful persuasion.

When policemen are being knocked - on the heads by the strikers and prevented from doing their duty, how do you expect the Police to be gentle all the time ?

They must use force to meet force .

If it is necessary, I will back the Police , if the Police are being threatened when enforcing the law, to retaliate : It is a different matter from telling the Police : " You go and beat people".
It is entirely a different matter for the Police to defend them- selves , because the Police after all are human beings , and they must defend 'themselves .

So, no amount of untruths spoken by the Honourable Member in this House can detract from the fact that the Police in this country are well disciplined and well liked by the people and they are the custodian of our security .

I think , Sir, that is about all I have to say.


I think I have answered all the questions , and I thank you for giving me the opportunity to reply to all the observations made.

(Applause) Question put, and agreed to.

The sums of:- $2,096,604 for Head S. 39, $101,573,920 for Head S. 40, $37,250, 830 for Head S. 65M, $7,704,792 for Head S. 66R, and $9,404,690 for Head S. 67x1, ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
(Mr (Deputy) Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 41- S. 44, S. d5H, S. 65N, S. 65P, S. 66Q, S. 67Q and S. 67R-- The Assistant Minister of Rural Development (Sarawak ) (Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub): Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission I beg to move on behalf of the Minister of Justice the various sums for each of the following Heads- Malaya- S. 41-Ministry of Justice S. 42--Judicial ... S. 43-Attorney-General ... S 119,216 ... ... 4,347,410 1,093,764, S.44-Public Trustee, Custodian of Enemy Property and Official Assignee ... .. 817,663 Singapore- S. 65k-Official Assignee Public Trustee ... S. 65N---Judicial ... S. 65P-Legal ... ... and ... ... 296,280 2,209,710 189,976 Sabah-- Sarawak- S. 66Q-Registrar-General ... 56,675 S. 67Q-Judicial ... ... ... 567,790 S. 67R--Legal ... ... ... 124,450 Head S. 41 Mr Chairman, Sir, I will now deal with Head S. 41 which relates to the Headquarters of the Ministry of Justice.
The expenditure under this Head for 1964 will be slightly less, by a sum of $427, than that for 1963.

There is no change in.

the establishment of the Ministry.

A small increase in personal emoluments amounting to $1,683 is due to incre- ments.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, the total remains the same.

As regards Special Expenditure, the sum of $25,000 is again being sought for re-equipping law libraries.

This is the same as what was given for 1963.


Head S. 42 Turning to Head S. 42 Judicial, totalling $4,347,410, Honour- able Members will no doubt note that the overall increase of $265,446 under this Head for the year 1964 represents 6.5 % increase in anticipated expendi- ture.

The increase arises from the establishment on Malaysia day of three High Courts in Malaya, Singa- pore and Borneo, and the Federal Court with appellate and.

original.

jurisdiction in all three territories.


4475 8 JANUARY 1964 4476 This is in conformity with the agree- ment reached in the inter-Govern- owing to the growth of the Federal Court.

There is also a large increase mental Committee and also the provi- in the Transport and Travelling Vote, sions of Malaysia Act, 1963.

I need not elaborate on this point again, Sir, as this new set up is all too apparent.
The total increase in Personal Emo- luments for 1964 amounts to $185,246 and it arises mainly from the following Item (1)--Chief Registrar, Federal Court/ Registrar, High.

Court, Superscale "C": This post is created by the upgrading of the post of Registrar, Supreme Court, Superscale "E as it is felt that the responsibility of the post has been increased as a result of Malaysia.

Item (4)--Secretary to Lord President, and Item (5)-Secretary to the Judges'-2 posts.
These are expected as a result of the creation of the new posts of Lord President and two Judges of the Federal Court.

Item (15}-Deputy Registrar , High Court, Malaya, Superscale "H".

This post is created by the upgrading of one Timescale post of Senior Assistant Registrar as greater activity both in terms of volume, as well as responsibility of work , is experienced in the day to day court work under Malaysia.

The former post of Senior Assistant Registrar has now been abolished.
Item ( 16)--Senior President , Sessions Court, Superscale "H"-3 posts.

These posts are created by the upgrading of three timescale posts of President , Sessions Court.

The appointments of President , Sessions Court in large towns--in Kuala Lumpur, Ipoh and :Johore Bahru-require persons of consider- able judicial as well as administrative <experience .

The justification for the upgrading of these appointments has been felt for many years.
Under Malaysia, the number of posts for subordinate officers is also increased to cope with the increase in the number of personnel and the added volume of work.

Under Other Charges Annually Re- current, there is an increase of $80,200 over the 1963 provision.

The increase is unavoidable as it is anticipated that more postage and registration fees on overseas correspondence will have to be met as a result of Malaysia, and that more light and power will be con- sumed in 1964.
More part-time staff will have to be employed in 1964 to clean and upkeep the court houses •and compounds.

Additional copies of Law Books and Reports and more and the provision under this vote in 1963 has proved to be insufficient.

There is likely to be a greater number of court sittings held by Circuit Ma- gistrates to cope with the increase in the number of cases.
Besides, the Chief Registrar, and the Secretary to the Lord President will be required to travel extensively to Borneo and Singapore in connection with Appeals to the Federal Court.

Under Special Expenditure, the total provision required for 1964 is the same as that for 1963.

Head S. 43 Turning to the Attorney- General's Chambers Head 43, I would mention that there is a slight increase in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates.
This is necessitated by the appointment of a Federal Counsel, who will be officiating as Deputy Public Prosecutor for the States of Kedah and Perlis.

It is not possible for the Legal Adviser to attend to Council meetings in these two States and at the same time conduct prosecu- tions in Court.

In addition, a Malay Translation Section for translating the laws from English to the National Language has been established in the Attorney-General's Chambers.
This section consists of one Assistant Parliamentary Draftsman, who is a Barrister-at-Law, two Malay transla- tors and two typists.

One post of G.C.S.

Clerk, Special Grade, has been deleted and in its place a Second Legal Assistant has been substituted.

There is also an increase of two office boys in view of the increased volume of work in these Chambers.
Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is no significant increase in expenditure except for telephones, which is due to the increase in the number of officers in the Legal Department.
Under Special Expenditure, an increase of $9,850 is being sought to provide both the Attorney-General's Chambers and also the Solicitor- printed forms have to be purchased, General's Chambers with certain 4477 8 JANUARY 1964 4478 essential equipment and furniture, as appear in the Federal Estimates under well as to acquire furniture for the main this Ministry for the year 1964.

The office staff.
The office staff.

Head S. 44 The Department of Public Trustee, Custodian of Enemy Property and Official Assignee is a Department newly merged with effect from 1st April, 1963, under the control of the Public Trustee and Official Assignee as Federal Head.

Before the merger, a new Public Trustee branch office was established in Kuala Trengganu on 1st January, 1963.
In consequence, there is an increase of four to the Establishment with a corresponding increase of $31,452 for all the commitments on Personal Emoluments.

As for the expansion of this Department, there is now felt a need in the State of Pahang for the services provided by the Public Trustee as Official Administrator, particularly among the rural community in trust and estate matters.
With the opening of a Branch Office in Kuantan, Pahang, in 1964, it has been agreed that, with provision for six months, it will enable the Department to take appropriate action to proceed with the necessary arrangements to establish the new Branch Office with effect from 1st July, 1964.

A Trust Officer is to be recruited to take charge of the new branch.

As regards the Bankruptcy Section, under the same Head S. 44, there is an overall decrease of $19,546 on Personal Emoluments.
The total number of its personnel, however, remains un- changed.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is only a slight difference in the Estimates which shows an increase of $300.

counterpart Departments concerned are as follows : (i) The Department of Official Assignee and Public Trustee; (ii) The Judicial Department; and (iii) The Legal Department.

I take Head S. 65H, which relates to the Department of Official Assignee and Public Trustee in Singapore.
Compared to the 1963 Estimates, there is an overall increase of $2,320.

Under Personal Emoluments, there is a slight increases of $230, due to the annual increments of salaries of the existing staffs, particularly Office Boys.

Under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, there is an increase of $300 in Minor Works and Repairs, and this would enable works of a minor nature to be carried out.
Under Special Expenditure, an increase of $1,790 is being sought to meet the 10% increase in Basic Pay and Expatriation Pay of the Accoun- tant to the Official Assignee and Public Trustee.

Under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme, the Inducement Allowance paid to Expatriate Officers has been increased by 10% of Basic Pay and Expatriation Pay.

The basic pay and expatriation pay of the Accountant is $14,800 and $3,000 per annum, and 10% is $1,788, which accounts for the increase.
The expa- triation pay and the additional allo- wance of 10% are recoverable front the United Kingdom Funds under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme.

The Accountant is a contract officer and his present three years' contract will expire on 18th August, 1964.

If renewal of his contract is approved,, the $11,000 will be released to provide for payment of his salary for the Under Special Expenditure, a whole of 1964. decrease of $1,715 is shown.
Head S. 65N Turning to the next Head S. 65H -I will now deal with Head S. 65N, the Judicial Department.

Head S. 65H (Singapore).

As the in Singapore, the increased expenditure House is aware, under the Malaysia Agreement certain Departments in under this Head for 1964 will be $350,450 or about 18.8% above the Singapore will become Federal after 1963 Estimates.

The increase is Malaysia Day, and it is therefore mainly due to the creation of addi- al; propriate that their Estimates should tional posts.
A sum of $66,400 has 4479 8 JANUARY 1964 4480 been included under the item "Legal the fact that owing to Malaysia, it is Expenses" for fees of Counsel assigned to defend in the "Pulau Senang" case; .a number of Other Charges Annually Recurrent items have been included in the Estimates in order to meet expenses which were previously met from block votes in the State Estimates .
There is also additional provision for purchase of law books, office furniture and equipment for the Federal Court and the two additional Courts for Judges.

Head S. 65P Finally, I now turn to Head S .

65P, i .e., the Singapore Legal Department.

Estimates of certain divisions of the State Advocate- General 's Department will be borne by the Federal Establishment .

I would mention that there is a slight increase of $4,5 29 in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates .
This is necessitated by the creation of a new appointment , namely, the Legal Assistant and by the annual increments of salaries of the existing staffs.

Head S. 66Q-I will now deal with Sabah and Sarawak .

Turning to Head S. 660-Registrar-General , Sabah, this is a new department which will be established in 1964 to take over the non-judicial functions of the Adminis- trator-General.
The staff of the old Judicial Department , Sabah, has been divided between the two new departments, i.e., the Registrar -General 's Department, Sabah , and the Judicial Department, Sarawak, which should correctly be called the Judicial Department, Borneo ; and the only overall increase insofar as the Registrar -General's Department is involved , is one post of Registrar-General, Division I, Scale A ($1,420).
Small increases in Other Charges Annually Recurrent expenditure are also necessary following the creation •of the new department.

now no longer necessary for Sabah to reimburse Sarawak with its share of the cost of the combined Judiciary in the Borneo Territories totalling $91,100 as has hitherto been the prac- tice.

There is a true increase in expen- diture of $51,916.
The increase of $39,830 in the estimated expenditure in Personal Emoluments over the 1963 Estimates is mainly due to increments, increased rates of Inducement Allow- ance, re-grading of certain posts, con- version of salary scales and new posts are partly offset by transfers of five posts along with attendant functions to the Registrar-General's Department.

These new posts are, namely, one Court Interpreter, two Clerks, one Court Peon/Process Server, one Office Boy and two Clerk/Typists.
Head S. 67R Finally I turn to the next Head of Expenditure, S. 67R Legal Department, Sarawak.

It shows an increase of $26,964 over the 1963 Estimates.

This Department is split into State and Federal.

With the ex- ception of the Attorney-General, all officers in Division I become Federal Officers.

The increase of $12,164 in Personal Emoluments is principally due to in- crements, higher rate of Inducement Allowance payable to Designated Officers and payment of a Rent Allow- ance of 10% of basic salary.
Under Other Charges Annually Re- current, there is an increase of $12,300.

This is required to cover local ex- penses on miscellaneous expenditure, printing and stationery, and transport and travelling in respect of the Federal Officers in the Department.

Under Special Expenditure, an in- crease of $2,500 is being sought for the library.

A similar sum is provided in the State Estimates.


Wan Mustapha bin Haji All (Kelan- tan Hilir): Mr Chairman, Sir, since there is not much time left, I would Head S. 67Q-I now turn to Head like to confine myself to three items.

S. 67Q the Judicial Department, Firstly, I would refer to page 332, Sarawak.

It will be seen that there is Head 42, item (18) Yang di-Pertua, a decrease of $50,184 as compared to Mahkamah Tengah, that is President the 1963 Estimates .

The decrease is of Sessions Court.


Mr Chairman, Sir, not a true decrease and merely reflects the Presidents of Sessions Courts, 4481 8 JANUARY 1964 4482 under the terms of service, have to be or are qualified lawyers, but I am in- formed that at present if such persons are acting as Presidents of Sessions Courts, they are not paid acting allowance.
For instance, when a young lawyer comes back, under the Judicial Service Scheme, he receives about $600 per month and then, he is pro- moted to become President, Sessions Court.

Normally, Sir, he starts as a Circuit Magistrate, but when he is pro- moted to become President, Sessions Court, he is no more paid acting allowance formerly, it was probably about $720 in other words, his actual per month according to item (21).
Sir, if I remember correctly , it was the policy of the Government to send every Magistrate to England to be qualified .

That was in 1954 and now it is 1964 nearly 10 years.

As I said, the Government still needs qualified people to be on the Bench, and the result is that it has to engage senior members of the State Civil Service who are paid high salaries and such per- sons are not qualified .
So, unless act- ing allowances are paid to Presidents, qualified Presidents, we will find that one day these people will quit Govern- ment Service and start their own pay.

I think that is not fair.

First and practices.

foremost, all Presidents must be quali- fied before they become Presidents and the duties of a President, Sessions Court, are very great.

Presidents of Now, Sir, I would like to refer to page 337, item (13) Timbalan Pen- da`awa Raya, Kelantan.
It seems that Sessions Courts have got to keep up last year there was a provision of their self-respect, they have got to $11,724 and there is "nil" for this administer the law and, in fact, they year.

I understand that the former can even send people to prison.

Deputy Public Prosecutor has left the service on pension and, I think, there Sir, I remember that while I was a is no substitute.

In other words, in the Circuit Magistrate before I went to England -I was not even qualified.
I State of Kelantan, we have the Legal Adviser acting as D.P.P.

that is, he is was a Circuit Magistrate, and I was in doing two jobs, one as Legal Adviser the State Civil Service, when I became to the State, and the other appearing a Circuit Magistrate.

Though I was not even qualified, I was given an acting allowance, just because I was holding the post of Circuit Magistrate and in Court as D.P.P.

in respect of crimi- nal matters.


We have just heard from the Honourable the Assistant Minister just now that in Kedah and Perlis, certain respect and dignity must be they have got a separate man as upheld by the Bench.
So, if my in- D.P.P., because the same person, the formation is correct that young Pre- Legal Adviser, cannot attend to two sidents-qualified persons acting as places, as he has got to attend Legis- President of Sessions Courts are not lative Assembly meetings and Execu- paid acting allowance, then I think tive Council meetings.

If my recollec- that is wrong.

If the Government is not tion is correct, if Perlis has got a careful, these people will just quit the Legal Adviser and a separate D.P.P.
Government Service and start their own practice and we have heard from and Perlis is a smaller State why not the same be the case in respect of the Government that it is still in need Kelantan?

The present D.P.P., that is of qualified lawyers, qualified people, Tengku Rithauddeen, I think, is over- to be on the Bench.

There is proof worked.

He has got to appear in Court that even at present there are people on the Bench who are not even quali- and he has to advise the State in res- pect of legal matters.
Further, Sir, I do fied, and that means the Government not know whether there are still still needs people who are qualified : D.P.Ps who are not qualified, because for instance, Pengadil (Perkhidmatan in Kelantan, previously, we had one Tadbir Negeri)--I refer to items (21) D.P.P., who is a friend of mine and and (23) : these people are magistrates.

who has just left on pension.

He was They are not qualified.


They are re- not qualified and probably the Govern- cruited from the Civil Service and they ment will replace him with somebody are getting quite a high pay $837.50 who is qualified.

4483 8 JANUARY 1964 4484 Sir, I will now turn to page 333 P.E.O.

is on the acting allowance.

It again.

I would like to comment on was given about two weeks ago.

The Jurubahasa Interpreters.


In the Ses- sions Courts, and sometimes even in the High Courts, I would say with due Judicial Department was not con- sulted, but the matter is being taken up with the P.S.C.

by the Chief respect that we find Interpreters who, Registrar.

because of their lack of qualifications, have interpreted wrongly sometimes.
As a practising lawyer, I have to say this with great regret, and it is pro- bably because these Interpreters are not qualified probably they might have passed their School Certificate, but language is quite a difficult sub- Now, with respect to item (21) re- garding Pengadil, it has been men- tioned that the salary is personal to holder.

On the observation regarding the Legal Adviser in Kelantan acting as D.P.P., doing work as D.P.P.

as well ject.
as well ject.

To become Interpreters you need comparing it with the new post, the persons who are very very good in creation of one new post of Crown English; a person might obtain a dis- tinction, or Grade I, in the School Certificate, but if his English Language is just a mere "credit", then you will find that that Interpreter will find it very difficult to interpret from English into Malay.
I think the Government should select candidates not necessarily a Grade I candidate so long as he is very good in English and good in Malay.

The Government must insist that at least he must have a "credit" in Malay or probably "credit" at least in English : otherwise, you will find the interpretation not quite cor- rect; in fact, through experience there had been instances where the learned Judges had to bear with these Inter- preters.
So, I hope that the Govern- ment in future, when it recruits Interpreters, would choose people who are linguists capable of rendering very good interpretation.

Since there is not much time left, I think I will just confine on those three items.

Thank you.

Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub: Mr Chairman, Sir, I am glad to see my Honourable and learned friend appearing again after so many days' absence.

I really missed him (Laugh- ter).


With respect to the first observa- tion made by him, there is a new ruling .

.. .

Wan Mustapha bin Haji Ali: On a point of explanation, Mr Chairman, Sir, a few days back he was in Kota Bahru, giving a speech in Padang Merdeka.

Counsel to act as D.P.P.

for Kedah and Perlis this is a matter within the discretion of the Government, the Attorney-General himself.

If it is con- sidered by the Government that a post of D.P.P.
is warranted in Kelantan as in the States I have just mentioned Kedah and Perlis then, of course, the Government might consider the matter; again, this is really a question of the volume of work.

In other States, per- haps, one also finds that the Legal Adviser is acting as D.P.P.

The D.P.P.

I mentioned for the States of Kedah and Perlis will officiate for the two States Kedah and Perlis.
Now, with regard to the Interpreter, Mr Chairman, Sir, I really sympathise with my Honourable colleague there, if he has experienced great difficulties in Court in not having "interpreters" who are not "good linguists".

This is a problem which one meets every- where, not only in Malaya, but also in Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak.

It is true, I quite agree with him, that we must have good interpreters : there is no doubt about it, but sometimes it is not so easy to get good ones.
Perhaps, this is because many of our young chaps, who are really good linguists good English speakers, or good Malay speakers would rather seek employ- ment somewhere else, or would go abroad for further studies.

I think that is all I need to say, Mr Chairman, Sir.

If on the question of this D.P.P.

for Kelantan, the Honourable Member feels that the Enche' Abdul Rahman bin Ya`kub: existing Legal Adviser is overworked, The flew ruling by the P.S.C.
and the then I would suggest that he discuss 4485 8 JANUARY 1964 4486 the matter with the appropriate quarter and consideration can be given in that respect provided, of course, there is someone to be sent to Kelantan.

Thank you.

67D (Mr Speaker in the Chair) Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47 and S. 48; S. 65E, S. 66L and S. 67C and S. Question put, and agreed to.
The sums of : $119,216 for Head S. 41, $4,347,410 for Head S. 42, $1,093,764 for Head S. 43, $817,663 for Head S. 44, $296,280 for Head S. 65H, $2,209,710 for Head S. 65N, $189,976 for Head S. 65P, $56,675 for Head S. 66Q, $567,790 for Head S. 67Q, $124,450 for Head S. 67R, ordered to stand part of the Schedule.
Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47, S. 48; Heads S. 65E, S. 66L, S. 67C, S. 67D The Minister of Labour and Social Welfare (Enche' Bahaman bin Sam- sudin) : Mr Chairman, Sir, I shall take about half-an-hour to address the House on subjects under my Portfolio.

So, I suggest that we take them in the afternoon at 4.30 p.m. Mr Chairman : It can be continued in the afternoon.

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Yes.

Mr Chairman: Would you like to speak now?

There is still another five minutes.


Do you like to have it now or in the afternoon?

Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: In the afternoon.

Mr Chairman : Time is about one o'clock now.

The meeting is sus- pended to 4.30 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 12.58 p.m.

Sitting resumed at 4.30 p.m. (Mr Speaker in the Chair) r .

THE SUPPLY BILL, 1964 House immediately resolved itself into Committee of Supply.
Enche' Bahaman bin Samsudin: Mr Chairman, Sir, with your permission, I would like to present simultaneously Heads S. 45, S. 46, S. 47 and S. 48 totalling $8,958,138, relating to the Ministry of Labour and Social Wel- fare and Heads S. 65E, S. 66L and S. 67C and S. 67D relating to Labour and Social Welfare in the States of Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak res- pectively.

The year 1963 has been one of con- siderable activity in the field of labour in Malaya.
This is mainly due to the increasing trade union activity in the country and the focussing of attention on some basic issues affecting labour which, in the past, were not in the forefront.

This tremendous amount of activity reflects the growth of trade unionism here and the freedom within which unions are formed and function.
Though some of the disputes that arose during the year received much publicity and gave rise to considerable concern to the Government and in the minds of the public, and though there are still both employers and trade unions, who disregard accepted pro- cedures and methods of settling their differences, I would say that we have made substantial progress in the field of industrial relations in Malaya.

The year under review has generally been one of cordial relationship be- tween employers and workers.
A signi- ficant development was that large groups of workers achieved substantial improvements in their wages and con- ditions of employment through collec- tive bargaining and joint agreement.

For the period January to November, 1963 there were less number of strikes and man-days lost as a result, as compared with the corresponding period in 1962.
Up to November, 1963, there were 63 strikes and one lockout resulting in the loss of about 95,000 man-days, whereas in 1962, during the same period, there were 81 strikes resulting in over 127,000 man-days lost.

The 1962 figures would be much 4487 8 JANUARY 1964 4488 greater, if the Railway strike which number of important measures to be occurred in December were added to considered by the Government.

In it.
In it.

However, in 1963, as in the previous going through the Report of this years, the majority of the strikes that took place were of very short dura- Committee, I am impressed by the thoroughness with which the subject tion, lasting between 1 to 3 days.

Many has been studied and the soundness of of these, too, I am sure could have the recommendations made therein.
been avoided if the processes of dis- The Report is now with the Govern- cussion and voluntary negotiation were ment and, therefore, it is not possible genuinely followed.

On the more con- for me to outline in detail the recom- structive side, there were over 40 mendations yet.

The Government at- negotiated agreements between workers taches great importance to any social and employers up to November this security scheme, which would be of year.
A number of new joint councils real and lasting benefit to the workers for both consultation and negotiation of this country.

The Government will, in various sectors of the economy were therefore, study the Report with great also established.

care.

Sir, the National Joint Labour Ad- visory Council has taken note of the fact that the lack of agreed procedures for joint consultation and negotiation and their effective implementation have been the main cause of unrest in certain industries.
The Council has, therefore, formed a Special Committee to study and streamline the procedures in this respect and to make these available to all employers and workers.
I have no doubt that the formulation of model procedures of this sort for the resolution of disputes and diffe- rences would contribute in no small Hon'ble Members would agree with me that the introduction of a compre- hensive scheme of Social Security is a major step for the improvement of the welfare of the workers and that once these measures are introduced, they cannot be withdrawn or unduly modi- fied.
It is understandable, therefore, that the Committee has taken some time in making its recommendations.

Not only has the Committee had to formulate and recommend the measures that can be introduced, it has had also to discuss and suggest the manner in which its recommendations can be measure towards the lessening of mis- effectively implemented.
Social Secu- understanding which, in the past, often rity experts all over the world, and the threatened to damage the voluntary International Social Security Associa- system of industrial relations that we tion itself, have stressed the need for have in Malaya today.

The coming year, Sir, is going to be a year of even greater constructive improvements in the welfare of work- ers of this country.
The most impor- tant step would be the possibility of introducing more comprehensive mea- sures of social security, through Social Insurance, in Malaya.

This House is already aware that a Committee under the Chairmanship of my colleague, the Assistant Minister, was established by the Government to study the Inter- national Labour Organisation Report on the feasibility of introducing a Social Insurance Scheme in Malaya.

This Committee had represented on it all parties who have an interest in the Scheme.
I am happy to state now that this Committee has completed its deliberations and has recommended a caution in the formulation and imple- mentation of Social Security Schemes.

I might mention here that the Commit- tee, except on only one subject, reached unanimity on all the recommendations in the Report and this alone is testi- mony of the earnestness and sincerity with which members of the Committee had studied the subject.
I would like, therefore, to pay tribute in this House to the good work put in by the Assis- tant Minister and all the members of this Committee in studying the I.L.O.

Report and formulating recommenda- tions to the Government.

I can assure this House that the Government's decision on these recommendations would be announced in the near future.

As from the 1st of January this year, shop assistants in this country would be receiving a new deal.
I have 4489 8 JANUARY 1964 4490 issued a Wages Regulation Order sti- pulating the minimum wage and other amenities for shop assistants to be effective from the 1st of this month.

I admit that this Order might only be a modest beginning-the minimum wage stipulated might not be entirely satisfactory to all concerned and the Order itself does not affect the entire country.
This can only be expected as this is the first Wages Council ap- pointed under the Wages Councils Ordinance and this Wages Regulation Order is also the first issued in this country.

The Wages Councils Ordi- nance, however, has suitable provi- sions for these minimum conditions to be improved and their area of application extended as time goes on.

The present Wages Regulation Order affects only shop assistants, as defined under the Weekly Holidays Ordinance.
I have decided to establish a separate Wages Council for employ- ees in Coffee Shops, Restaurants, Hotels and Bars and, possibly, Clubs, in respect of whom the existing Wages Council has not made any proposals.

The Order establishing this new Wages Council will be issued as soon as nominations for employers' and work- ers' representatives on this Council have been received.

Another Wages Council is in operation in respect of workers and employers in the Port of Penang.
I am happy to report that this Wages Council, too, has made con- siderable progress in the formulation of proposals for minimum wages and other conditions of employment for workers in the Port of Penang.

I hope to receive their proposals shortly and, if I find them satisfactory, will issue a similar Order for the Port.
I am also considering the possibility of estab- lishing Wages Councils in other indus- tries where the workers are not sufficiently organised into trade unions to be able to effectively negotiate with their employers for satisfactory condi- tions of service.

A survey is already being made and I can assure this House that more Councils would be established where and when necessary.
The Government is also seeking the assistance of an expert from the United Kingdom to advise and assist us in the operation of Wages Councils and the enforcement of Wages Regu- lation Orders.

Referring to the Port of Penang again, Sir, the Government is aware that the Wages Council will not solve all the problems facing port workers.
I am happy to announce that the Inter- national Labour Organisation has already provided us with an expert to formulate and introduce a scheme of registration for port workers and their employers.

The expert, Mr I. W. Freathy, has already arrived in this country and been briefed in my Ministry.

He has already proceeded to Penang where he will make a study of the working conditions of waterfront workers there, before he frames the enabling laws for the introduction of the registration scheme for the Port.
The Government has decided to esta- blish a new statutory body to adminis- ter the scheme of registration for dock workers and their employers in the Port of Penang.

I hope that the law to enable the introduction of the scheme can be introduced in Parlia- ment this year itself and the Scheme implemented soon thereafter.

I turn now, Sir, to the question of employment.


This House was informed last year that a survey was being undertaken of the employment, un- employment and under-employment situation, jointly by the Statistics De- partment and my Ministry.

This survey has now been completed and the Report is being studied by the Govern- ment, before it is released to the public.
When provision for the survey was sought in the House last year, it was pointed out that the survey would provide the necessary information for sound and purposeful economic plan- ning.

Planning in the field of employ- ment, in the last 5-Year Plan, was unfortunately made difficult by the lack of up-to-date information on the manpower and employment markets.
With the results of the survey now at hand, the Government is happy to state that realistic and adequate plan- ning for employment can and will now be undertaken.
The Government has decided to establish, within the Eco- nomic Planning Unit of the Prime 4491 8 JANUARY 1964 4492 Minister's Department, a new Man- power Planning Section which would work in close consultation with my Ministry and other Ministries con- cerned to enable the National Deve- lopment Planning Committee to give adequate consideration to manpower and employment problems.

The Government has already plan- ned an extensive training programme for the unemployed youths of this country.
A pilot project has already been started in Seremban where 70 youths selected through Employment Exchanges are being trained in rubber tapping and processing and 10 in motor-car servicing.

A scheme for padi harvesters in Kedah has also recently been launched.

Other training projects are being drawn up and would be introduced as soon as the plans are finalised.
I should perhaps emphasise that these training courses are not relief projects but intensive courses of training to provide a certain measure of skill to persons, who do not possess them in the trades where skilled craftsmen are most in demand.

I have found that the majority of the persons unemployed in this country are per- sons who have no saleable skills, training, experience, or much educa- tional qualifications to boast of.
These training courses are now planned not only to provide skills to our young persons but also to enable them to play a more active part in the deve- lopment and life of our country.

The training of apprentices, under the National Apprenticeship Scheme, continues to receive the attention of my Ministry.
More and more employ- ers, having realised the need for effi- cient and able workers for the proper maintenance and progress of their undertakings, have come forward to participate in the National Appren- ticeship Scheme.

Today there are more than 600 apprentices registered with the Board.

My Ministry, consequent on the growing demand, has during 1963, opened three new Apprenticeship Training Centres, one in Kota Bharu, the other in Seremban and the third in Johore Bahru.
The Centre in Kuala Lumpur has also been expanded to allow more apprentices to be trained.

The Board, therefore, has at the moment six Centres, the other two being in Penang and in Ipoh.

The Industrial Training Institute, which was expected to be ready during this year, owing to unavoidable cir- cumstances, would only be ready in June next year.
This Institute will be the first of its kind in this country and will offer full-time training with resi- dential facilities to apprentices of industries throughout the country.

In- structors for the Institute have already been recruited and are being trained by I.L.O.

experts, under the I.L.O.

Technical Assistance Programme.

The Australian Government has also made available three places for the training of Instructors in Australia in 1964.
When this Institute is in full operation, the output of trained workers would naturally increase.

I would like to assure Hon'ble Members that my Ministry would spare no efforts in finding ways and means to increase yet further the output of trained workers.

For the Department of Social Wel- fare, reference was made last year to plans for the development of services for the physically handicapped.
These plans have now been drawn up and will be put into operation as soon as the Rehabilitation Centre for the physically handicapped, now under construction, is completed some time in 1964.

In order to develop the ser- vices in accordance with modern techniques and trends, an I.L.O.

Voca- tional Rehabilitation expert will be made available to the Department also in 1964.
The plan aims at developing residual resources of the handicapped to enable them to become economically independent citizens in the shortest possible time.

The consolidation and expansion of services for children continued in 1963.

Two new Children's Homes have been built and are already functioning in Kuala Kangsar and Kuantan.

The new Homes are designed to provide chil- dren in need of the atmosphere and care obtainable in a normal home.
Every encouragement will be given to the strengthening and development of voluntary youth movements.

Train- ing courses have been intensified and 4493 8 JANUARY 1964 4494 a modern National Youth Training Centre, which is now under construc- tion in Kuala Kubu Bahru, will come into operation some time in 1964.

A model youth Centre has also been built in Kuala Lumpur to provide for the needs of local youths.
The rapid development and expansion of youth organisations has given rise to the need for an effective co-ordinating body to avoid overlapping and wasteful dupli- cation of services for youth.

My Ministry is, therefore, considering the formation of a body that will effec- tively co-ordinate all youth organisa- tions activities in this country.

The rehabilitation of persons be- coming victims to prostitution is also being considered.

This will generally some duplication of functions.


Atten- tion had been given towards the co- ordination of the activities of these organisations in order to obviate duplication and also to ensure planned development of voluntary social and welfare services geared to meet the needs of the community.

I am happy to announce that my Ministry has convened a meeting of all the repre- sentatives of national voluntary wel- fare organisations and a National Social Welfare Council has been formed.
This Council will have well defined powers of decisions and sanc- tion designed to stimulate interest and to enhance their scope of operations, standard of work and service.

With Malaysia, Sir, the scope of our include caring for them both physi- activities has been expanded to cover cally and morally.

Further, the the other component States.


Singa- rehabilitation programme will lay pore, however, enjoys autonomy in emphasis on the re-education of per- sons falling victims to prostitution giving them a new concept of life and labour though some aspects of social welfare are on the Federal List and provision for these has been included instilling in them the liking for res- in the Estimates for 1964.

Labour in pectable employment.


They will be trained for vocations preferably of their own choice, which will offer them both Sabah and Sarawak are Federal matters.

It is inevitable, Sir, that there should be some form of co-ordination self-support and dignity in life.

Where of policies and development activities possible suitable employment will be and uniformity of legislation, wherever found for them.
To this end, a re- possible and desirable, in labour and habilitation centre for the victims of prostitution will be built in Cheras, social welfare matters.

The necessary steps to this end are already being Selangor, and will come into opera- taken.

tion some time in the middle of 1964.

I would like here to pay tribute to the many voluntary welfare workers and organisations which in the course of the year had in no small measure contributed to ease the suffering of the needy.
Voluntary effort is an essential element in the provision of welfare services for the community.

It is the policy of the Government to encourage voluntary organisations to continue and expand their activities in the field of social welfare to supplement what the Government is doing.

However, arising from the aftermath of World War II, many of the voluntary welfare organisations came into being piece- meal to meet the post-war social problems.
Consequently, as these organisations grew independently of the others, there had been not only a multiplicity of organisations but also Coming now, Sir, to the detailed provisions for the services in Malaya, I have mentioned just now, Head S. 45 provides for the Ministry, Central Apprenticeship Board and the Registry of Trade Unions.

Under this Head, there is an overall increase of only $25,000.
This small increase is for additional staff requirements for the Central Apprenticeship Board and the Registry of Trade Unions and, in res- pect of our contribution to the Inter- national Labour Organisation for the year 1964, where there is an increase of $18,000 in keeping with our pre- scribed percentage of the I.L.O.

Bud- get, which has itself increased.

This, Sir, is an inescapable commitment and will have to be met.
Hon'ble Members will observe, too, that the provisions for the Registry of Trade Unions are now included under my Ministry for 4495 8 JANUARY 1964 4496 the first time, instead of under the Ministry of Interior.

one House Assistant under Item (36) for the vagrants Ward at Ayer Kroh.

Coming to Head S. 46 for the Department of Labour and Industrial Relations, the increase for 1964 is $174,777.
The bulk of this increase is under Personal Emoluments on ac- count of normal increases in salaries, as well as to provide for additional posts to man the expanded services provided by that Department.

New Employment Exchanges are proposed for Raub and Kuala Pilah, and exist- ing Employment Exchanges will be strengthened by the provision of addi- tional staff.
The Youth Employment Section of the Department is being provided with one additional post of Junior Assistant Commissioner to undertake the work of Occupational Research.

The addition of staff as mentioned above and the increased tempo of the Department's activities have also necessitated the increase of a sum of $15,000 under Transport and Travelling in Subhead 7.

Under Head 47 for the Machinery Department, there is a net decrease of $3,225.
This is due to savings affected by the reduction in the number of posts of Inspectors of Machinery under Subhead 1 Item (4).

There is no appreciable increase under Other Charges Annually Recurrent, while under Special Expenditure the provi- sion of a car, necessary for the trans- portation of officers of the Depart- ment, has increased the 1964 provision under this Subhead by about $3,000.

The provision for the Department of Social Welfare comes under Head S. 48.

The net increase here is $416,252.


The increase is mainly due to Sub- heads 16 and 33, totalling $310,750 being contributions to Boy Scouts and Girl Guides Associations and National Association of Women's Institute which, in 1963, appeared under the Ministry of Health.
Under Personal Emoluments, the increase of $63,966 covers normal salary increments plus provisions for new posts of one Trade Instructor, Special Grade, under Item (15), four Trade Instructors under Item (32) for the Rehabilitation Centre I shall now deal with Supply Head 65E, Social Welfare, Singapore.

Sup- ply Head 65E, totalling $170,508, Sir, is in respect of Social Welfare for the State of Singapore.
The provisions sought are for the Probation and Aftercare of offenders, which, under the Malaysian arrangements, is a Federal subject.

The Probation and Aftercare De- partment in Singapore will be headed by an Assistant Director, provision for which appears under Item (1).

Five additional posts of Probation and Aftercare Officers have been provided for under Item (3) to cater for the 5 officers, who would be completing their course in Social Studies at the University of Singapore.
Items (4), (5) and (6) provide for the ancillary staff of the Department.

Under Subhead 2 -Bursaries for Diploma in Social Studies, a sum of $22,000 is sought for the purpose of training a further 10 Probation and Aftercare Officers in the University of Singapore.

The course in Social Studies leading to a diploma at the University is a two-year course.

Therefore, the provision sought under Subhead 2 in- cludes the Bursaries for the 5 awarded in 1963 and the additional 5 to be awarded in 1964.
Now, Sir, I come to Supply Head 66L Labour in the State of Sabah.

The 1964 Estimates of Federal Expen- diture in respect of the Department of Labour, Sabah, totalling $256,981 appear under Head 66L.

Sir, since the formation of Malaysia, Labour in Sabah has become a Fede- ral responsibility.
However, the Inter- governmental Committee had agreed that, for an interim period, the Com- missioner for Labour and Welfare in Sabah should remain in charge of the Department of Labour in Sabah but being directly responsible to the Federal Minister.

The Estimates for 1964 in respect of Sabah show an overall increase of $33,667 over the 1963 Estimates.
The for the Physically Handicapped and increases sought are largely to enable 4497 8 JANUARY 1964 4498 the general expansion of the services Enche' V. David : Mr Chairman, Sir, provided by the Department to meet this is the first Estimate for the the needs of a rapidly developing Ministry of Labour after the inclusion economy.
The increases under Personal Emo- luments are to provide for the crea- tion of a new post of Assistant Com- missioner of Labour for an office in the West Coast , which is now covered by the Commissioner 's office in Jesse!- ton and also for additional posts of Labour Inspector and Registration Officer, to cope with the increasing trade union activity in the State.

of Sarawak, Sabah and.

Singapore.


While the agreement for Malaysia was being drawn up, Singapore stated very clearly it would have autonomy on labour.

This was mainly because the labour legislation and the policy adopted towards labour by the Singa- pore Government is far different from that enjoyed by the workers in the Federation of Malaya.
When com- pared with Singapore, I can safely say that we are twenty years back in regard The increases under Other Charges to what we find in Singapore today Annually Recurrent and Special Ex- penditure arise from the expansion in the services I referred to just now.

Provision has also been included for the purchase of outboard engines under sub-head 9 to facilitate the in- spection of timber camps on the East Coast, most of which are in remote areas accessible only by river.
Lastly, Sir, I now come to Sara- wak-Labour and Social Welfare.

Heads 67C and 67D , Sir, totalling $193,946 , relate to Labour and Social Welfare in Sarawak.

As is the case with Sabah, it has been agreed that for an interim period, the Commissioner of Labour, Sara- wak, would remain in charge of the Department in Sarawak , being directly responsible to me as the Federal Minister .
The Sarawak Labour Laws would remain in force, but there would be a gradual move towards a common Malaysian Labour legislation.

The increases sought in Head 67C are due mainly to the opening of two new offices in Sibu and Miri and to expansion in staff.

An increased sum of $12,000 has also been provided under sub-head 4 to cover additional transport and travelling charges ex- as far as labour is concerned.
Labour legislation, including that dealing with industrial relations, even though one does not fully endorse it, is much more progressive than that of the Federation of Malaya.

Sir, I have been a critic of the Trade Union Ordinance , 1959 , from the time it was introduced into this country.

To my knowledge the Trade Union Ordi- nance of 1959, which is in force in the Federation of Malaya , is much more backward than the Trade Union Enactment which was in force during the colonial period.
We have not gone forward , but instead we have gone backward .

The legislation on the regis- tration of trade unions provided in this country contravenes and is in breach of International Labour Organi- sation Convention No.

87, which guarantees the freedom of association.

According to this Convention, a trade union formed by workers need not be registered , and it is free from all legislative powers and it functions as a body of the workers organised by the workers.

However , the legislation in.


this country has a large number of provisions which are very restrictive and they curb the activities and the progress of trade unions in this country.

pected to be incurred as a result of a This is not only the case in respect of more intensive drive to enforce labour legislation in the State.

Supply Head 67D provides for normal salary increments and expan- sion of the Federal Social Welfare Services in Sarawak.

Sir, I beg to move.

the Trade Union Ordinance .


The same applies to the Employment Ordinance of this country .

The Employment Ordi- nance guarantees protection in every respect to the employer .

The Employ- ment Ordinance assures the right of an employer to hire and fire.
The employer maintains the prerogative 4499 8 JANUARY 1964 4500 right to dismiss an employee by was not secure to ratify this Convention notice if he is monthly paid by a because of communist threats and month's salary or a month's notice.

subversive elements.

This has been the This has been abused by employers excuse from the time Malaya attained wherever and whenever the employer independence .

I can bluntly ask the has found active unionists among his workers.
This provision of the legis- lation has been applied to dismiss a worker who has been in the trade union movement.

When such dismissals take place, it is impossible to prove that the employee concerned was dis- missed because of his participation in the trade union movement.

The Government to answer , "Is there any progress on the part of trade unions, compared to other countries, after independence ; is freedom enjoyed by the trade unions in this country?

No.
No.

Besides, all trade unionists are being sacked and at times detained under the Internal Security Act.

As a result, the trade unions have been unable to make employer can easily and safely frame steady progress in this country.

gress.

The trade union movement in on a lockout ; the strike at Kota Bharu other charges under different pretexts and dismiss a man for his trade union activities.
Since this has become very common in this country, the trade unions have been unable to make progress like other countries in other parts of the world.

The policy itself of the Government has been very hostile towards workers and pro-em- ployer in nature, and every legislation in this country is in one way or other abetting and aiding employers against the workers.

Mr Chairman, Sir, if this state of affairs continues, I am afraid there can be no progress in the field of trade unionism.
I cannot agree that after independence the trade union movement has made tremendous pro- this country could have made more progress if a climate could be created by the Government for its progress, but instead the Government has thought it fit to introduce► legislation protecting employers and vested interest employ- ers.

Most dignified employers, who enjoy public confidence and status in this country, have used this law to exploit workers and dismiss workers under one pretext or another.
Sir, the International Labour Organi- sation is an organisation of employees, employers and Government.

The Malayan Government is a full-fledged employer of the I.L.O.

but the Con- ventions adopted by this Organisation have not been ratified by this Govern- ment.

When a motion was moved some time back for the ratification of the I.L.O.
Convention 87, the Government stated its reasons basing purely that it While I am against the legislation and the weak-kneed policy of the Govern- ment towards labour, I cannot for a moment hesitate to congratulate the Minister of Labour for his personal and sincere efforts in the discharge of his responsibilities as Minister of Labour.

Mr Chairman , Sir, the state of affairs of the working class in this country needs serious consideration on the part of the Government .
You will see that today there are three or four strikes, which could have been easily settled.

The Malayan.

Breweries is on strike; Yeo Hup Seng is on a lockout by the employer; Nanyang Siang Pau is also is just settled ; the threat of a strike in Malacca pending .

Sir, lockouts by employers have become extremely common.

Nanyang Siang Pau has staged a lockout .

At the early stages it closed one.


of its sections, by depriv- ingf employment for forty workers, and now continues with the other sections whereby forcing the workers to stop work, and the employer is staging a complete lockout .

Is there any legis- lation on the part of the Government to act?

The answer will be "No."

The answer from the Government will be, "The employer has a right to lockout; the employer has a right to lockout as the workers go on strike ."
This will be the taperecorded answer by the Govern- ment.

Mr Chairman , Sir, if we go at this rate , where are we going to end?

The employer , when he stages such a lockout , has always the ulterior inten- tion to remove the existing workers who are members of the trade unions 4501 8 JANUARY 1964 4502 and replace them by new workers with a different scheme of employment and poor wages.
This has, been done in the Art Printing Works where the Manage- ment locked out and the Government was unable to do anything; and finally the Company has resumed work after a few months by recruiting new workers.

The same tactic is being applied by the employer of Yeo Hup Seng and the employer of Nanyang Siang Pau.
If the Government is sincere towards the workers, the Government request has been on the workers to sacrifice; every legislation in this country has been on the workers and not on the employers.

Not only in this industry it has happened, but even in industries which have been offered pioneer status.
What has happened in industries, which have been offered pioneer status is exploitation in the largest degree, sweated labour, wages paid far below the standard which an average Malayan worker receives in this country.

The foreign investors must tell the employer, "Either you come to this country with a hope of operate the factory with moral obliga- tions towards the workers or leave having sweated labour as enjoyed by them in Hong Kong and in African your business completely and hand countries.
Sir, all these can only be it to people who will be in a position protected by adequate and sympathetic to run industries."

Sir, industry is not one-sided.

Industry has social and moral obliga- tions towards the nation.

An industry cannot alone function with the pure motive of profit-making; it has other obligations too towards the country.

These employers (which I mentioned just now), I can safely say, are anti- national and anti-social.

Such employ- ers cannot be allowed to remain in our midst.
The Government should act, it should act vigilantly; and it cannot sit and watch the plight of the workers of this country.

If it does act, then at least it has a small degree or a small element of sympathy towards the workers in this country.

Sir, I understand the employer of Yeo Hup Seng has gone to Singapore after staging a lock out.

He has not been available for contact either by the Ministry or by the workers.
He has absconded to Singapore, waiting for the employees to disperse, so that he can recruit new workers.

This has set a precedent to other companies where employers take advantage of the Government's unrealistic and weak- kneed labour policy.

If the Government is armed with the power to tell the employer that the nation's interest should come before industry, then the employer will be afraid of the Govern- ment.
As it is today, the employer has been given the free choice either to close away the factory or to exploit to any degree without any restriction on and liberal labour legislations in this country.

If the Government is not prepared to assist the working; class in this country, then you will take it for granted that it is a pro-employers Government and a Government that is abetting and aiding vested interests to exploit the working class.
Mr Chairman, Sir, another grave concern which arises in this country is mass unemployment.

Unemployment has been increased in this country due to various reasons.

Malaya today is introducing new industries and mecha- nisation is being day to day introduced.

This creates technological unemploy- ment.

Then by nature we have in this country seasonal unemployment, where people from the rural areas flock into the towns when there are no crops in the rural areas.
Then you have another form of unemployment in the ports, especially in Penang and Port Swetten- ham, due to confrontation and the Government is unable to find a solution to this problem.

Further unemployment arises from the educated group, where every year we have a large number of men and women passing out from schools.

There is no concrete or positive planning to absorb the growing unemployment in this country.

The Government itself is not armed with figures.


If you ask the Government to provide any data on unemployment, it is impossible for the Government to provide the same.

In other countries the Department of Planning is a very, him.

Every time the Government's very important Section in the Ministry 4503 Section.

8 JANUARY 1964 4504 of Labour and the Government has not allocated funds to provide such a Mr Chairman : Order, order !
lithe Government has not provided any funds, you cannot talk at all on the policy of that service.

You seem to go to the general policy again.

If you want in industries, the growing unemploy- ment due to confrontation , and also the regular seasonal unemployment.

This has to be classified in different cate- gories , analysed objectively in order to find a solution to the problems.
Coming to the estate workers, the estate workers have remained as they to appeal to the Government, you can were in the days of immigrant labour.

do it by way of a suggestion or appeal Their plight has not changed and their to the Government.

You are only conditions have not improved.


The allowed to speak on the policy of the rubber planter still treats the workers service for which money is provided, in the same way as he used to treat the but you have already admitted before workers in those old days of immigrant the House that there is, no money labour .

His attitude towards the wor- provided for that purpose.

You have kers has not changed and the workers got to be very careful.

Enche' V. David : Sir, planning is very important.