Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698077385254.pdf (Guyana)
�� 519 Members Present.LEGISLATIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

ern Berbice).

.. COUNCIL.

Tax (Amdt.)

Bill.

520 The Hon.

Dr. G. M. Gonsalves (East­ The Hon.

Dr. C. Jagan (Central THURSDAY, 4TH MARCH, 1948, The Hon.

W. 0.

R. Kendall (New •Amsterdam).

Demerara).

f J The Council met at 8 p.m., His Sir Charles the Governor, Excellency M.C., Presi­ O.B.E., Woolley, dent, in the Chair.

K.C.M.G., Berbice) .

The Hon.

C. A. McDoom (Nominated).

The Hon.

A. T. Peters (Western The Hon.


W. A. Phang (North West- ern District).

PRESENT.

The Hon.

G. H. Smellie (Nominated).

The Clerk read prayers.

The President, His Excellency Campbell the Woolley, Governor, K.C.M.G., Sir Charles O.B.E., M.C.

The Hon.

the Colonial (acting) .. D.J.

Parkinson Secretary, Mr. Minutes of the meeting cil held on Wednesday, as printed read and confirmed.

and circulated, of the C:oun­ the 3rd of March, were taken as ANNOUNCEMENT.

The Hon.
The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. CLOSER UNION OF WEST INDIAN E.M. Duke (acting).

COLONIES.

The Hon.

the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. E. F. McDavid, C.B.E.

The Hon.

C. V. Wight, O.B.E., (Wes tern Essequibo).

The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, C.B.E., (Nominated).

The Hon.

Dr. J.

B. Singh, O.B.E., (Demerara-Essequibo).

• ; The Hon.

Dr. J.

A. Nicholson, (George.

a.town North) .

The Hon.

T. Lee (Essequibo River).


· on the subject The PRESIDENT: that we get through the Budget I in the There is one ·mat­ ter which 1 would like to mention t,) Assuming Council.

the Tax Bill and complete that the motion standing propose name of the hon.

the First Nominated Member, Mr. Seaford, Closer Union of the West Indian Colonies next at should be taken on Wednesday to, hon.

2.00 p.m., if that is convenient Members.


As I said at the last meet­ ing, I think it is desirable make up our 'minds on this question.

Most of the other ,Legislatures have done so and I propose Caribbean to take the motion at 2.00 p.m. next Wednesday if it is convenient.

that we should in the of Tie Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

PAPER LAID.

(Nomi­ 'Tlfe Hon.

W. J. Raatgever, The COLONIAL SECRETARY laid nated): on the table the following document:- • The Hon.

G. A. C. Farnum (Nomi­ nated).


The Report of the Administrators of the Patoir Fund for 1947.

The Hon.

D. P. Debidin (Eastern ORDER OF THE DAY.

Demerara).

The Hon.

J. Fernandes (Georgetown Central).

BILL, 1948.

TAx (AMENDMENT) The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I beg resolves to move that tt_le Council itself ' .-.._.!:.....

Tax 521 (.4.mdt.)

4 MARCH, 1948 Bill, 1948.


522 an additional sub-clause into Committee of the following to resume consideration Bill:- A Bill intituled "An Ordit�ance fur­ ·ther to amend the Tax Ordinance, 1939."

The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.

Agreed to.

COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE.

The CHAIRMAN: I think we had reached and decided clause 3 when we We now come to yesterday.

adjourned clause 4.

Clause 4-Insertion of new section 7B in the Principal Ordinance.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I beg day of to move that the words "thirtieth hundred and forty­ December nineteen seven," sub-clause words "first dred and forty-eight," therefor.
in the fourth and fifth lines of and that the day of April nineteen hun­ be substituted 7B (1) be· deleted Dr. JAGAN: This sub-clause and I would to the tax on film rentals like to have the following it after the word "theatres" words added to at the end:- refers "Provided that the prices charged at on December 30, 1947, remain un­ ciP.�mas changed."

The CHAIRMAN: I think the hon.

Member is suggesting to the provision.

moving tlie deletion That is to say, he is of the clause in effect.
a direct negative Dr. JAGAN: I am not suggesting Sir, I want to add some­ the deletion, thing.

I am not sure that this tax would not be passed on to the consumers and that is the reason why I desire to have it stated here that the prices charged to theatre patrons should remain as they were on December 30, 1947.

Tl;l.e CHAIRMAN: I do not think to that say what the prices of admis­ that this Council can extent-to sion should be.

legislate Mr. DEBIDIN: It seems to me that the hon.
Member for Central Demerara me in this matter, anticipated ture to think that where _he wants to put but I. ven­ !

'�� - ... of date, the the increase the increase percentage.

revenue from this brought it here last night, the 3, 1949. on cinema date and if we do not whole of this provision wouk but then what would be the I am not in so far as public policy is,· \Ve are going to get a certain the amendment would not be the right place.
I drafted -(9)-ancl object being that there should be no in­ crease in cinema prices before March 31, should be more than 1949, and no increase to the According a certain made by Your Excellency observations 1if is adopted it would h�e this amendment effect to the Rent Restrict1n a similar which restricts Ordinance rent to not more than a certain as from a particular percentage date in that case being September We can restrict prices to a certain I think the defeat itself concerned.
amount of increased measure, effect on the poor community.

thinking because they earn fair salaries pared with the majority rural areas and might be able to pay in­ am I ask­ creased ing any special cause this measure would affect and poor alike.

I want to say clearly, however, that the question entertainment to the people.

We .
We .

mind, a social service speak of giving more recreation more social wel dren and of providing maternity leagues fare centres-creches, and so on-and now that we are dealing ·with cinemas which would provide tional advantages going to restrict ous people are allowed to increase the • charges in order to pay for additional' I am J · I feel that the amendment taxation.

!

ought to be adopted subject to advocating what hon.

Members have to say.


cinema prices, fai10ur neither for the poor be­ only of the people in Georgetown in the rural areas is, to my for the people we arE: if unscrupul- attendance of those in the of cinema both rich when com­ to chil­ educa­ The CHAIRMAN: I see the �oints raised bv both the hon.

Member :tot Cen� tral De�erara and the hon.

Mem�r for I see what they are Eastern Demerara.


aiming at but we would have to give the matter very much more careful we are writing ation if, in effect, the Ordinance charged ;;it theatres.

change but the law would remain.

with the idea but I think not disagreeing we would have to be very careful before we slip a thing like that into the law.

what shoula be the prices conside� down in Circumstances may I am Tax (A 539 mdt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Bill, 1948.


540 � that these sub-clauses in accordance with the of the Committee should be deleted proposal urge the Committee to discuss proposal of the Attorney-Geri,-=ral I will when the time comes the other clauses.

to give my consideration.

sympathetic hand when on one hand is to encour­ of Government age thrift, but on the oth.-=r there is a chance to levy a tax on betting and gambling Government to is hesitant natu­ levy it.
If there is private betting rally the Turf Club would not make any profit, object of the removal of this clause.

and that seems to me to be th,'= � Dr. JAGAN: I think one Member said that a tax of 5 per cent.

as proposed in sub-clause vate betting, (3) would discourage pri­ · I> The CHAIRMAN: No, it would en­ The CHAIRMAN : I will now put the (3) to (7) of that sub-clauses amendment clause 5 be d.-=leted.

courage blackmarket what it amounts to.

Isn't that right, Mr. betting.


That is Amendment agreed to.

- Treasurer ?

Clause 5 as amended was then put The COLONIA,L TREASURER: If and agreed to.

there is such a thing as blackmarket ting.

I consider market (laughter).

all betting is black­ bet- I move The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: of a new clause 6, copies of to hon.

the irn,,-=rtion which have been circulated Members:-- that Dr. JAGAN: I am surprised have been made to this Bill.
amendments I am sure that the lobbying Turf Club have worked very hard, and I am sorry that they have not achieved their end.

It seems to me that the object agents of the 6.
(1) Section nine of the Principal is her.-=by Ordinance letion from sub-section graduated therefor of the following- (1) of the table of rates and by the substitution amended by the de­ Rate per cenium of duty Net value of property ½ 1 2 3 $ 2,500 I.5,000 ExGeeds $ 500 but does not exceed $ 2,500 $ 5,000 $ 10,000 $ 25,000 $ 50,000 $ 75,000 $ 100,000 125,000 150,000 175,000 200,000 250,000 300,000 $ 350,000 $ 400,000 $ 450,000 $ 500,000 $ 600,000 $1,000,000 10,000 25,000 50,000 75,000 100,000 $125,000 $150,000 $175,000 $200,000 $250,000 300,000 1 350,000 I 400,000 1450,000 5 7½ 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 35 40 45 4,000,000 50 5,000,000 55 60 $1,500,000 12,500,000 500,000 600,000 $1,000,000 $1,500,000 $2,000,000 $4,000,000 $5,000,000 ., (2) Th,'= provisions of sub-section ( 1)of this section in the shall have effect case of all persons dying after the com­ mencement of this Ordinance.
Orc1inanc:�, (3)The Estate Duty (Surcharge) 1944, is hereby repealed.

(4) The rate of estate duty payable on the estate of a person who died before the commencement shall be such rate as was in force at the time of his death.

of this Ordinanc,'= The CHAIRMAN: The position in regard to this clause is that the per­ centages to estates and increased $50,000 upwards.

hav,'=.
hav,'=.

been reduced with respect valued from $500 up to $50,000, in varying degrees from Mr. SMELLIE: I would like to ask the what is the hon.

the AJtol'ney-General 541 Tax (Amdt.)

4 MARCH, 1948 Bilt, 1948.

542 broad effect of the reduction posed taxation Club's sweepstake in the rates of Estate Duty'!

Is the one designed to balance the other ?

on the Demerara Turf of the pro­ and this new variation Mr. SEAFORD: I would like to ask Treasur,?r the Colonial that this proposal revenue.
that these new rates will.

I think th.

?y will have the reverse is going to increase It seems to me very doubtful ·if he is �atisfied effect.

as I do.

that even fees have been fixed· by Gov­ is always to in­ will appreciate, lawyers' ernment.

The tendency crease the rate where the estate is a very large one, so much so that at a certain stage nearly half of the estate goes to Government.

value estate.
value estate.

Very seldom there is a high Mr. FERNANDES: I also commend estates the tax on the on reducing the Colonial I understood Government lower estates.

to say that the figures were Treasurer at by the Economic Adviser, but arrived I do not quite agree with him.

On the below $1,000 the reduc­ smallest tion is 1/8 of one per cent.

but on the higher level it is 1 % per cent., not think that with the idea of the lowest level paying the least tax.
I think the $999 estate should pay 112 imtead of 5/8ths, estate of $49,999 instead 1 ¾ per cent.

as against a difference of 1/8 of one per cent.

If the principle to give relief right scale should be corrected.

should pay 5 per cent.

a difference clown to the bottom the of 6¾ per cent., in accordance is strictly and I do and an of is to clause dealing It is some­ The COLONIAL TREASURER: In the first place this new clause relating to Estate Duty has nothing whatever do with th,?.
preceding with the tax on sweepstakes.

thing which was dealt with in my Budget but we eould not get it into Statement, Bill in time.

1 think I said at the printed the time of the first reading, amendment would part of the Budget, an independent pro­ position, modernize giving further estates, centages estates.

the seal,:!

relief and increasing the rates on th.-:?

high value the !Tiain object of which is to bit more by that this be introduced.

It was to the low value in varying per­ .


a little Dr. JAGAN: If the hon.

Member would look at page 30 of the Economic he will find that Advisers's the same.

the rate given there is exactly I would advise him to verify his state­ ments first.

memorandum New clause 6 agreed to.

As regards the question by Mr.


I am afraid I do not know how he Seaford, worked it out, but the scale was origi­ nally conceived by the Economic who has methods of approach Advis,?r that are not available me that he has calculated $10,000 to me, and he tells on the average.

that is is worth Mr. SEAFORD: I think there will be a little flag flying.

Mr. DEBIDIN: I commend this pro­ As one who has to of Estate Duty I am posal most heartily.
do with calculations glad to see that the surtax has been removed, the bas,ic one because there are lots of people who need this relief.

are consumed ancl there is a consolidation rates.

The proposal Most of the small estates by Registry charges.

is a good of Mr. WIGHT: Not only Registry charges but lawyers' m_ost of the money in a pour person's es.tate.

fees.

They absorb Mr. DEBIDIN: The hon.


Member to a proposed tax on horse racing· and also provides I move The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: of a new clause 7, copies of the insertion which are in the hands of Members.

It relates and cycle racing, entertainment entertainments The clause reads: 7.Section fifty of the Principal as substituted Ordinance, of the Tax (Amendment) is hereby amended - three by section Ordinance, 1945, tax on cinematograph in any part of the Colony.
· for an for the worc1s (a)by the substitution "entertainment Georgetown Amsterdam, the municipal said city or town," of the words.

"horse racing.

or cycle racing, entertainment;" held in the city of or the town of New or within one mile of boundaries of the (b)by the deletion of paragraph (e), therefor, and by the substitution of the following- 543 Tax (Arndt.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

13iit, 1948.

544 (e)Where the payment exceeds 72 cents but does not exceed 96 cents .

.

.

.
.

.

.

12 cents Amsterdam the country should pay and not those in districts.

(f)Where the payment-exceeds 96 Mr. DEBIDIN: I am glad an ex­ cents, one-sixth ment of such pay­ and in the case of horse racing, for admission shall, for the purposes this section, be deemed to have been made where payment is ordinarily for admission without payment."
charged and a person is admitted payment of The COLONIAL TREASURER: Here built, and to a lesser To-da:v \we and in reasonable of them which compare are shown the same type comfort to with similar theatres in and not only that, but in on a proper show, as we have in extent in New have no less well equipped again I must apologise to hon.

Members.
Members.

The reason for that part of the clause which seeks to extend the entertainment tax to cinemas in the rural areas is, this: When the entertainment tax was first imposed it was felt that the cinematograph theatres in the country districts were small, ill equipped and few; they did not have the facilities or the equipment for putting Georgetown, Amsterdam.

than 24 substantially cinemas in the country districts.
All of course are not the same quality, but I have seen several fa\·ourably Georgetown, those theatres of pictures their patrons.

For that reason I cannot see why the payment of this-duty should be imposed only on the residents of the City of Georgetown and the town of New Amsterdam.

ance at these rural cinemas has changed.

I believe in some districts estates' circumstances.

Why should those people not pay this du.ty when they go to the cinema for ex-.
1mple, at Port Mourant, if they have to pay it when they go to a cinema in Georgetown is one of the reasons is taken to make a little matter we have heard the question of the poor man raised again, but I cannot see why the poor man in Georgetown and New Amsterdam to pay this tax and the poor man in the country dis­ tricts why this opportunity money.

In this staffs and people in comfortable are their chief patrons.

What is more, the attend­ or New Amsterdam?

That should have should not.


the sugar with the for this Treasurer people-or better theatres and these include an overwhelming of some of these theatres has been given and I assume people who in the rural for this entertain­ disagree in his reasons planation that those are the most cogent reasons that could be advanced ment tax.

I certainly Colonial tax.

He is saying in effect that because there are some enterprising would provide areas the poor people there should pay more for admission.
I agree that the condition has been deplorable in the past but I do not think that is any reason why they should be taxed more at me prt$ent time.

I must observe that while there is in Georgetown number of financial people of a class that can afford to pay a fair surn of money to see pictures at the cinemas-in the rural areas the situation is quite the reverse.

There are only a few people of the richer class there to support the theatres the staff of the sugar estates, teachers and one or two others.
I do not think it is good argument to say that because there has been some improvement theatres entertainment them.

I happen to know that they make very little money-those in the rural areas-and very few of them show pictures They cater mostly for the rice and the sugar estate workers from Saturday when they get their pay until Monday night, and I am appealing to extend this tax to the rural areas because the proprietors there would pass.

it on to the patrons.


a matter of fact, if the proprietors build better theatres their prices of admission alone in order to recover their capital expenditure.

Ii we want to encourage the people to get a little more entertain­ ment I think we should enable them to see films-and especially those of an I agree that certain educational nature.
films should not be shown in the rural areas since they would corrupt the morals of the youths, tomed to a different that suggested I thin!<, however, that Inaian talking in the appearance of in the country districts this on people there being accus­ way of life from in scme of the pictures.

more than three nights a week.

now they might raise of the theatres to hon.

Members not As have to theatres on that score should accept this.
It is an anomaly that the theatre goers in Georgetown and New I do suggest, Sir, that the Council tax should be imposed 545 .

Tax (Amcit.)

4 MARCH, 1948 Bill, 1948.


546 and otherwise-do Against : Messrs. Smellie, Phang, Peters, McDoom, Dr. Jagan, Debidin, Farnum, Roth and Lee-9 amount of good to people Many people pictures-educational a considerable in the country districts there 01,ly go to see these pictures and they do so because they appreciate the dancing and other achievements of their own people in India.

I _would strongly enjoin this Council that in consider this particular to the view of the hon.
Member for Central that what is good for one is good for all.

Circumstances are different in various places and I think it would be a fine gesture on the part of my hon.

friend if he withdraws the suggestion that the country theatres should fall in line with the City theatres in so far as this tax is concerned.

measure not to give effect Georgetown ing Motion lost.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : I " the based on the idea of The discussion misunderstood think the Committee purpose of the discussion.
has been entirely extending sho'NS in the country be remembered to extend the duty to horse-racing tainment, as well.

Secondly, the clause out we have disturbed whole oJ' the framework this duty to cinematograph districts, "' that this clause is intended the of the Bill.

in throwing but it must enter­ The people in the rural districts in the rural Mr. FARNUM: I beg to join the hon.

Member for Eastern Demerara in his appeal that this tax should not be extended to the theatres districts.
would feel the tax more than those in the City because there is a variety of amuse­ ments, in the City for the residents attend but that is not so in the country clistricts.

I am quite sure that if this tax is imposed it would be passed on to the people and I would not like that to happen.

to Mr. LEE: To a point of order!

The and the clause has has divided Committee been thrown out.

Mr. RAATGEVER: I would ask that I am sorry I the clause be recommitted.

was net here for the division.


The CHAIRMAN : I cannot recommit but there are other The Colonial it on that amendment, amendments.

thinks that this clause was.

defeated the cinematograph issue as regards the country districts and it is quite in order to amend the clause to improve that paragraph.
Treasurer on about three of four times in the country districts Mr. LEE: I would like to point out that it was the policy of Government some time ago to see that healthy entertainment is given to the people in the rural areas in order to uplift them.

T1)at is being clone in the sugar estate areas where they attend pictures a week and I think we should assist the theatres to scme extent in providing for those people who are far away from the City.
The fact that the cine1nas in country districts are now better than they were before is no reason why we should put this tax on them.

If this tax is imposed it would be passed on to the people and they would not be able to use their leisure time in the manner intended ment's policy.

entertainment by Govern­ The COLONIAL TREASURER : 1 phraseology are "entertain­ to be (a) and I would ask General to put me right.
have got the precise used in sub-clause the Attorney The words to be deleted ment held in the City of Georgetown the tpwn of New Amsterdam, or within one mile of the municipal boundaries of the said city or town."

I propose to move r- that the clause be re-introduced and these words omitted.

I think the effect in putting the duty on horse-racing and omitting the cinemas in the country districts meets the desire of the majority of Members.
or New clause 7 pnt, the Committee dividing and voting as follows :- Mr. RAATGEVER: It is not the majority us were not here when the division taken.

of the Council because some of was For: Messrs. Fernandes, Treasurer, Colonial Kendall, Dr. Singh, Wight, thE9 Attorney Secretary-8.

General and the Dr. Gonsalves, the Colonial The CHAIRMAN : I am sorry, it was The Committee would report a majority.

to the Council.

M7 Tax (Amdt.)

LEGISLATIVE CoTTNCIL.

Bill, 1948.


548 to Mr. DEBIDIN: IE an amendment a motion is moved it is put to the Council and if it is thrown out then tho motion would be put without tho amendment.

In this case the motion has been put and thrown out and no motion for the removal of certain put to the Counci.1.

is.

rather insulting.

them to themselves and not We have heard so "poor country I think this should encourage organise and centralise come to Georgetown.
much about poor people but if a gentle­ he should not man goes to horse-racing say he cannot afford to pay a 24-cent tax because words from the clause can be he is too poor.

people" clause 6 and <1fter consideratiun follows:- The CHAIRMAN: We have con­ sidered there was a further proposal adopted it.

The proposal new clause 7 be re:iected carried.

wa� that the and that was and we " 7.


Sectiun fifty of the Principal as substituted Ordinance by section of the Tax (Amendment) Ordinance, 1945, is hereby amended- three New clause 7 adopted to read as Mr. DEBIDIN : Since the new clause to the amendment 7 has been thrown out it shows that the amendment I move, however, introducf'd application or cycle racing, which would extend the that a new clause 7 be entertainment."

is carried.

of the duty to "t,orse-racing.


(a)by the insertion between the words "city or town" and the words "a the following of the words "or an:v horse racing or cycle ing, entertainment;" of paragra· rates," (b)by the deletion and by the substitution the following- t!iie The CHAIRMAN : Does any other Member wish tu speak on that amend­ ment?

Mr. LEE : As I know the horse-racing districts and what would be the position.
might go out of existence, e their in some of the country community they can hardly afford to carry on some since horses from the of their meetings, City do not attend owing to the small prizes offered.

If this tax is imposed on them they might have to discontinu meetings Horse-racing since only the Demerara be left to carry on in Georgetown.

I think this clause should be deleted and I would also ask why shouldn't in the country districts on cycle sports without being taxed ?

I do not think the hon.


Member for Eastern the interest Demerara is considering these people vvhen he suggests that these sports.

should be taxed.

That would only them tc come into the City.

be di'iving the people be able to carry Turf Club would of "(e) Where the payment ex cents but does note cents .

.

.

.

.

.

12 cents.


(f)Where the payment exL_, ___ � cents, one-sixth of sucl)i ment / paj , shall, for the purposes and, in the case of horse racing, payme\ for admission \ this section where pay1nent admission out payment."

- be deemed to have been mac is ordinarily with' and a uerson is admitted charged fc The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I beg in the to move that clause 6 as printed Bill be renumbered as clause 8.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause passed.


The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I beg to move that clause 7 as printed be renumbered in sub­ clause (6) where there is a printer's error in the fourth line the word " in" ,­ be inserted · after the wo�d "rettirn".

as clause 9, and that Mr. DEBIDIN : I would like to be with what has .

happened here and not with what has happened assisted to-night before.

We have thrown out clauses that this and 7 on the understanding would· be an alternative for raising revenue.
inconsis.tent I want to know if it would be for us to accept this proposal.

3 Question put, and agreed to.

ClauEe passed as amended.

The Council resumed.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : think the hon.

Member who speaks of the I beg The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: to move that the Bill, as· amended in Committee, be now read a third time and passed.

"'I � � 549 Custo1ns Duties 4 MARCH, 1948 (Amdt.)

BiLl.

550 The COLONIAL SECRETARY Tobacco in Leaf upon which the duty is seconded · Question put, and agreed to.
increased informed, tobacco.

tobacco by 15 cents per lb., I am is that known as the poor man's The rate of duty on the other is increased by 45c.

per lb.

That of the fact that Govern- ment does not intend to overtax the poor man.

The clause further provides: Bill read a third time and passed.

is an illustration CUSTOMS DUTIES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 1948. to implement of the.

hon.
hon.

the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The Bill now before this Council is the second measure which is intended the Budget proposals Colonial increases and a:::sociated export duties.

Clame 2 of the Bill affects two, purposes.

the.

rt tax on raw gold.

In the Bill which the Tax (Amend- ·.1�.t Treasurer.
to certain It relates in the rates of Customs Duties, with that are certain been passed, It repeals 1948, a tax has been Ordinance, l on gold which is not exported 1e Colony, and as a complement it is proposed in this clause 2 that "On Tobacco in Leaf, containing not in every 100 less than 25 lbs.

of moisture lbs.

w.-:ight, by 45 cents per pound!
On Sparkling Wine, by $2.20 per pound; Oc Still Wine in bottle, containing by $1.10 per gallon; not more than 26 per centum of proof spirit, contains proof spirit is increased strength proof spirit; and where it more than 26 per centum of by 1 cent per degree of in excess of 26 per centum of the additional duty p:�r gallon On Still Wine in bulk, containing not more than 30 per centum of proof and where by 95 cents per gallon; spirit, it contains proof spirit the additional gallon is increased of strength proof spirit."
more than 30 per centum of duty per in excess of 30 per centum of by 1 cent p.cr degree •� � _port tax on raw gold be repealed, in this clause should be and �urther it is proposed that the ·export duty on baux�te 30 cents on every ton.

At the present time the export duty on bauxite rate of 1 ½ % of the value of bauxite exported.

the rate of export duty.


is at the This will mean an increase in ) Then there is clau�e 3 of the Bill for certain which provides various commodities imported into the Color.y as follows increases on : "On Beer, Ale, Stout and Porter.
by 40 cents per gallon; Gn Brandy, Whisky and Gin, of a strength not exceeding 85 per centum of proof spirit, by $2 the liquid gallon; On Brandy, Whisky and Gin, of a strength 85 per cenium of proof not exceeding spirit, by $2 the proof gallon; On R um, by $2 the proof gallon; On Liqueurs, Bitters and Cordials, by $2 the liquid gallon; over­ Bitters and Cordials.

not On Liqueurs, overproof, proof, by $2 the proof gallon; On Cigars, Ciragettes, other manufactured Tobacco and Snuff.
by 60 cents per pound; "On Tobacco in Leaf, containing not less than 25 lbs.

and not more than 38 lbs.

of moisture by 15 cents per pound;" in every 100 lbs.

weight, I shall pause here to mention that In addition to what I have mentioned for to the are also subject of item 3 in the Second to the Customs Duties Ordin­ those increases usual surtax of 30 per cent.

Then there is clause 4 of the Bill which provides the deletion Schedule ance, 1935.

That will need some explana­ tion.


The rate of duty is 8 1/3 per cent.

British Preferential cent.

General Tariff on articles, merchantable bags, bearing an advertising enumerated exempt in the Fourth Schedule.

other than paper and paper Tariff and 60 2/3 per not device.

ordinarily in the First Schedule and not When this item was inserted in the matter it was intended duty which was payable.
which were admitted Customs Duties Ordinance to provide that where advertising came into this Colony they or articles of the should be admitted at half-rate ordinary Those articles item were articles No charge was made for them ; they were smokers' mugs, jugs and such things.

But within recent times certain importers for the admission which were never intended at such rates.

All that those importers felt it was necessary have sought to use this item that were given away.
at half-rates for them to do was to be admitted ash-trays, of articles under the .. We are endeavouring to from the of such profits We are not getting Bauxite Company.

There is no 559 Customs Duties LEGISLATIVE make in this country.

a fair proportion Demerara doubt about that.

It is said that they contribute the revenue of this country.
so, but there is no doubt that they are taking very much out of the country and giving us very much less than a fair pro­ portion of That may be a considerable of what they take.

proportion COUNCIL .

(Amdt.)

Bill.

560 we can possibly I should taxation it from the Dem­ like $300,000.

on bauxite would that to be put right because this is a period of crisis and we need money to run this country.

get every bit of taxation levy.

My friend talks of taxing the poor man's rum and pleasure.
Indeed we do, but we must go to the rich man's wealth, and we are not getting erara Bauxite Company.

I think the increased yield something like to see it reckoned Government because it is a monopolistic company and they may say they do not want our bauxite any more.

I do not know any­ thing about the Alco and the Akan, but this I do know: that the Bauxite Com­ pany, whether it operates in Canada or in the United States, company all over· the world.
We are in their ha·nds, but we must square our shoulders, and stiffen to them : " Give us something the wealth you are taking out of this country."

seems to be afraid to do that our backs and more for say in terms of millions.

is one monopolistic of dollars Mr. RAATGEVER: I am amazed a i· that the Bauxite Co. paid) radically speakers to this Government about the Bauxite Co. not export duty, but they of Government the export duty on bauxit that on gold.
It seems to the inconsistency increasing and removing me that there is something wrong.

I have heard the various remarking paying adequate have forgotten millions · in income tax and excess profits tax during the war, and provide for a considerable would like to know the reason for the removal of the export duty on gold.

year 16,770 ozs.

of gold were exported, and Government received in export duty.

We have the hon.

$20,000 the Colonial am going to read what he has already read- number of people.
_L employment Treasurer telling us-and I L9-st approximately "The Government th this export duty constitutes addition to operating to the working of low grade or high , ores, and that it should therefore removed."

is satisfied a burdensor costs, detrimer If we take the figures I have the Cc this burdensome Treasurer speaks about amounts to over $1 per o�.
That is someµ,ili:J._r addition .... � ...... ,tf_ In the first instance the Demerara is that Government who came to won from Crown named Mackenzie lands on the pretext went up the Demerara River from Crowri lands was about no royalty on the bauxite from those lands.

The royalty Bauxite Company bought lands from people in the upper Demerara River disi­ trict at a very small price.
There was a gentleman this Colony, and bought people's that he was buying those lands for the The result purpose of growing oranges.

was that they got those lands very cheaply indeed.

The position collects obtained we get is from bauxite lands.
During the war the bauxite obtained roughly one-third put, so that we get very little of royalty, The people who quarry stone at Seba pay Government alty, and we are told that there is a lot of virtue in stone, but there is ever so I do not much more virtue in bauxite.

know the figures because we cannot get them, but I am told on very good au­ thority that the Demerara Bauxite Com­ or pany took something from the Colony while we £35 million We do not get an got about £6 million.
from of the profits adequate proportion our bauxite, so I would like to see the royalty on bauxite taken out of the country out­ of the Company's in the way which is only 10 cents per ton.

25 cents per ton as roy­ like £30 million increased.

I think it was some time early in 1947 of State told us that won from our country.
Council increased when the Secretary we should secure higher royalty minerals the previous the roy­ alty on bauxite from 10 to 25 cents per ton, in the case of the Demerara Baux­ ite Company -they were allowed to go to pay 10 scot free.

They still continue cents per ton on bauxite won from ~'"'rown lands, and we still do not collect on the While ..lJfouroyalty on bauxit.e ,won from.

lands cl by th,, -:=- .�•� I woul<i_ like - ' • 561 Customs Duties 4 MARCH, 1948 (Amdt.)

Bill.
Bill.

562 additional should get more revenue· from it.
and for that reason we income, - As regards gold I agree that there that expend­ sterling fer allowing amount of capital areas, but when I find that a flow which are should get, because there can I begin to foel that the entire It is appreciated have all got to is already amount of revenue given to the is an urgent necessity of export to buying countries hard currency the measure has been int1:oduced not but also to merely to rehabilitate in the protect the mining industries Colony, measure does not merit the sympathy it otherwise be no dot1bt that Government losing a considerable by various concessions mining industries.
the mining compa111es incur a certain iture from which they cannot hope for returns in a clay or two, but if their are going to be Jean they balance-sheets should not be lean at the expense of the Thev must be made to Government.

their fai�-share of revenue ih contribute given by Govern­ return for the service the geological ment.

For instance, given to these com­ is one of the services panies by Government.
the export duty on gold can be continued, and if necessar:v made to see to what extent it would affect the mining companies.

that the agreement export duty on gold should remain.

The to is that Government position tax the people of the Colony .to the extent of 25 per cent.

on their own com­ are to be modity, while people outside allowed to buy it at a cheaper price.

with the suggestion an investigation I am in heart:v I feel sure that proposes survey can be when hon.
Members should have noticed they got up to attack the Bauxite Co. for not paying enough export duty.

l am.

going to oppose the removal of the export , duty on gold because I do not think it is right that the people of this Colony should lose that small amount of money which the Companies sure that the Companies to paying a fair share of any taxation.

are paying, have no objection and I am Mr. DEBIDIN: There is very little North and the last speakc:,: revenue from the industry.
that a great amount more I can add to what has been mid by the hon.

Member for Georgetown (Dr. Nicholson) I en­ on the question of bauxite.

tirely agree that much more should be got by Government either by way cf export duty or a royalty of 1 increased mode per cent.

a.d valorem.
a.d valorem.

Whichever is adopted I think Government should get If increased we take the argument Jf income tax has been secured !rnment that in itself is an indication hat the Company has been earning con­ and is therefore in a iderable profits, more to the osition to contribute ivenue of the Colony.

We have by ioken of assisting duty 'owing them to bJjng in machinery our fair share of ie, and collecting _ ventfe from _them when they have got I 1 their feet.
Here is a Company which ' fully established new industries by Gov­ and has been operat- years.

It has received a 1g for several ·.111 measure of a�sistance frcm Govern- '..,,.

.1ent in the past.

· Why shouldn't the types of ore. to the various �olony get its full share of revenue from it now?
I feel that the proposed tax of 30 cents per ton might be increased and applied On the question ore one can readily could refine the ore for export, case the quantity lnced considera ·ould not derive the full amount of export lty anticipated.

see that the Company in which bly, and Government of the different exported would be re­ types of The third item deals with tobacco.

was sold for 7 cents, made but to-day and not a luxury as it is thought I want to say that it is the poor man's .
necessity In the past a packet cf locally .

::igarettes it is 12 cents and 13 cents per packet in some of the country shops.

· The hon.

River (Mr. Lee) MemlJer for Essequibo has said that after a hard day's work, sometimes man wants either a rain, a labouring - schnapp or a smoke when he gets home.

before I think Government should hesitate taxing tobacco fmther.

I do not agree with the hon.

the Attorney-General he said that leaf tobaL:co people in the country.
the people in the· ,.,,,.,,1 when is used by the The majority of areas now Ed knee deep in water and in the There is another reason why we 1ld get more revenue from the pro­ in this Colony.

It is ion of bauxite there are other elements ·s aluminum, t that in those subsidiary tre possibly gold and other metals.

nmpany has stood to gain by ·g� ixite in bttU,.

and I venture to • It secures deposits in bauxite 563 Custo1ns Duties LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

(Amdt.)

BilL.
(Amdt.)

BilL.

564 .. in cigar'"ttes is a monopoly and they would be hit by the in the d11ty.

We have heard a I want tn cigarettes, increase lot about monopoly lo-ni�l1t.

say that there and a wicked one at tbc1t, because the shops in the rural areas cannot get a of supplies, proper distribution reason that one firm in Georgetown, J. P. Santos & Co., centrals the Messrs. sale of cigarettes in this Colony.

That is a vicious monopoly against which there is considerable conwlaint.
for the Mr. RAATGEVER : I rise to a point to say It is net correct of correction.

that Messrs. J. P. Santos & Co. control They the entire distribution of cigarettes.

the distribution only contrnl house" cigarettes.

Other trands of are sold freely by all the cigarettes in the Street.

merchants of "Light­ know.

I do not Council therefore Mr. SEAFORD : I repeat that the the lion.
Member had North (Dr. Nicholson) a lot of his statements diatribe from nothing whatever to clo with the Bill before the Ceuncil, propose to waste the time of the by contradicting With regard to the which are incorrect.

point made by the hon.

Member for Gecrgetewn and the hon.


Member for Eastern Demerara (Mr. Debidin) about Government not getting full revenue from I would like to ask them industry, whether they can tell this Council what is the revenue Government from the Bauxite Co. to-day, received in a pesition last year.

Are the hon.

Members to tell this Council?


is receiving and what it the bauxite Mr. DEBJDIN: .We would like to Mr. DEBIDIN : They control the Mr. SEAFORD : It was over $1,900,000 of "Lighthouse" matches and distribution cigarettes, is what I am tole\.

and certain other brands.

That Mr. RAATGEVER: Your information is incorrect.

dollars out of a -nearly two millior, total revenue of $16 millior.. Is that not fair revenue ?
All I would say to those Members is that there are other countries in the world where bauxite can be obtained, and there is an old saying "Don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg."

is Mr. DEBIDIN : I am going to make a of the point.

My com­ to good customers full examination quantity plaint is that only a certain of the firm, is supplied and the smaller shops are unable to get a proper distribution.
are not served, and, of certain areas course, there are other abuses, black marketing tax on cigarettes It would result in an in�rease which is already should not be mcreasecl.

and so forth.

I feel that the The result is that of the price high .

The hon Member for Eastern Deme­ ; that .the Bauxite Co. said that we should how we taxed the ore that rara (Mr. Debidin) be careful is being exported would refine the ore and the quantity shipped woulcl be less.
I think this Colony would welcome the day when the Company refined The hon.

Member should know that it would be a new industry, indt1stry, asset to the Colony.

if the Company did so.

I do not think we need worr.v on that score.

the ore in the Colony.

a very big � and a wonderful Mr. SEAFORD : I do not intend to reply to the great diatribe Member for Central for the reason that it is ge.tting chiefly because it has nothing whatever to do with the Bill before the Council.
Demerara (Dr. Jagan) of the hon.

late, but Dr. JAGAN: The relationship between the Demerara Bauxite Co. and the Aluminum Co. is a very close one, and we are now considE:ring of bauxite.

It is very 1·elevant.

taxation The PRESIDENT : The hon.

Member was allowed to say •Nhat he wanted.

He has said it and that is the end of it, in favour cf the proposal As far as I can make out, every Member who has spoken so far on bauxite in is definitely the Bill.

The hon.
The hon.

the Colonial Trea;,urer has told the Council what the additional revenue would be, but I think the majortiy for­ of Members have probably gotten that.

I think it would mea\' increased I think Government is geing to the limit in this respect, and I would remind hon.

Members that there is such a thing as going a think we have to be little of $360,000.

bit too far.

I revenue· -......... �-------·,e,,:� .. 565 Customs Duties 4 MARCH, 1948 .

(Amdt.)

Bill.
(Amdt.)

Bill.

566 � We should get all we can, and careful.

there is no one more willing that Government should get its fair share.

We are all out for the same thing, but we cannot just put our hands into the pool and take out everything that is in it.

than I am should receh·e.

In my humble op1mon, if we got 40 per cent.

of that we�lth it would be a fo ir and reasonable I am sure that a calculation that it would arpount we wouJd get from a royalty per ton -and other revenue derived.
would show to more than what of 30 cents return.

Mr. SEAFORD: For the benefit of the hon.

Member I will say that the amount paid into revenue by the Company is considerably the value of the bauxite the Colony.

more than 25 per cent.

of that goes out of Mr. ,LEE : I say let us have 40 per cent.

of.

the value ·of the ore.

The PRESIDENT : Hon.

Members are , getting involved.


You are talking about but probably having regard to the money other ways in which this Com­ to the national revenue from that does not mean to profits.

If Government's bauxite· is $2 million that the Colony has only benefited the extent of $2 million, $4 miliion, spent by the Company in wages and in variotis pany contributes income of the.

Colony.
Colony.

It is not merely the profit which has brought $2 million but the rest of the.money spent in the Colony in wages and other directions which must be taken into consideration when we are consider­ ing what the value of the industry really is to.

the Colony.

I will now put the motion that the Bill be read a second time.

greater should receive Mr. PETERS : It is rather late, and with some of bene­ some of the industries in the the bauxite while I am in agreement the vie�s expressed by hon.
Members that Government fits fron:i Colony, and in particular industry, it must be said in favour of the Demerara Bauxite ·co.

that there are certain s�rviees being rendered the Colony by the Company which one might regard as spiritual not overlook.

Demerara River cannot but be impressed by the difference cf the folk at Mackenzie d who live at Christianburg and one must pay tribute Co. for taking care of that.
So that when we are thinkin,g to the Colony in dollars also consider and cents we must the so_ciological that we must One who goes up the and Wismar, to the Bauxite Qr sociological, .

itions between the living con­ of services rendered benefits.

and those Mr. LEE : It is very• pleasing know that last year we gained by royalty from the Bauxite Co. to 'Mr.

SEAFORD : I safd revenue.


Mr. LEE : The revenue from bauxite was $1,900,000, but what is the value of the concession made ... by Government to the Bauxite Co., and the extent of the wealth in the ore taien away from the Colony ?

I should like the Colonial TreasureT which has been taken out of the country, and what percentage to tell us the value of the ore of the profits we Question put, and agreed to. '

.

Bill read a second time.

The Council was then adjourned until 8-p.m. the following day.

.
.

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