Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1698067828508.pdf (Guyana)
1469 Jltl embers Present.

LECHSLA TIVE COUNCTL Prrsentah'ons 1470 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL The Hon.

T. T. Th6inpson (Nominated).

The HGn.

W. J. Ra.a.tgever (Nomim1ted) .. THURSDAY, 6th FEBRUARY, 1947.

The Hon.

G .. A .. C, Fal;}lU!h lNomin?,ted).

Tile Hon.

J.

A. Veerasawmy (Nominnfed).

The Council met at 2 P.m., His Excel� lency the Officer Aclministering ernment, Mr. W. L. Heape, C.M.G., Prnsi­ dent, in the Chair.

the Gov­ PRESENT: The President, His Excellency the Officc1· Administering W.L.
Heape, C.M.G.

the Government, Mr.

The Clerk read prayers.

PRESEN'l'A 1'TONS Bm•rrnH l<.,oR B11rPTRE Mrss L. E. DAvrs.

1VfEDAT, The Hon.

the Colonial J.Park_inson (acting).

Mr. D. Secretary, The Hon.

the Attorney-General, Mr. E. M. Duke (acting) .

The Hon.· the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. E. F.McDavid, C.B.E.

The Hon.

E. G. Woolford, (New Amsterdam).

O.B.E., K.C.

The Hon.

F. J. Seaford, C.B.E.

(Georgetown North).

The Hon.

C. V. Wight, 0.B.E.

(We.stern Essequibo>.


The PRESIDENT : It is now my duty to make two presentations pleasant on behalf of His Majesty Lilian Ethel Davis and Mr. Russell Olton.

the King, to Miss Seton I pre­ Principal Miss Davis, .by command of the King, to me by His Majesty's conveyed Secretary of State for the Colonies, sent to you the Medal of the M-0st Excel- lent Order of the British have given the Government of loyal and meritorious shown exceptional work of maintaining the Colony.
My very best congratulations to you.

(Applause).

forty years and have service, in the important the vital statistics Empire.

You ability of _'!,'he Hon.

J. I. de Aguiar (Central' Dem­ erara>.

The Hon.

H. N. Critchlow <Nominated) The Hon.

J.

B. Singh, 0.B.E.

<Demerara­ Essequibo).

The Hon.

F. Dias, O.B.E.

(Nominated) .

The Hon.

Percy C. Wight, O.B.E.

(George­ town Central).

The Hon.

J. Gonsalves, O.B.E.

(George­ town South).

BmTrsH E�rPnm MEDAL FoR Principal ]\fa.


R. S. OLTON Mr. Olton, by command of the King, conveyed to me by His Majesty's of State for the Colonies.

Secretary sent to you the Medal of the Most Excel­ lent Order -of the British have performed valuable Defence the Special spicuous congratulations work during the war, with con­ ·Dock Constabulary My very best energy and ability.

services Empire.

You to you.

(Applause).

in Civil and organised I pre­ The Hon.

Peer Bacchus <Western Berbice).

The Hon.


H. C. Humphrys, K.C.

(Eastern Mit,iTUTES Demerara).

Minutes of the meeting of the Counctl The Hon.

C. R. Jacob (North Western Dis- trict).

The Hon.

A. G. King (Demerara River).

held -on Wednesday, as printed read and confirmed.

29th January., 1947, and circulated, were taken as The Hon.

T. Lee <Essequibo Rlver).

ANNOUNCEMENTS PROCEDURE OF BUSINESS The Hon.

V. Roth (Nominated).

'J'lJe ;Ei911.

C. P. Ferreira rnerbice River).


The PRESIDENT : With· the per- mis,sion of hon.

Members it is proposed to 14 71 Annon ncement s. 6 FEBRUARY, 1!)47.

Nilrsing Commission 1472 "An Ordinance to The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave no­ and first reading amend the Trades Unions Ordinance by providing that a Trustee of a Trade Union or a branch thereof shall not at the same time hold any office in the Union or in any branch thereof and for purposes therewith."
connected in it for the in­ to amend the of items 1, 2, 3, 4, lNTRODUC'rION OF BILL GOVERNMENT NOTICE rates to apply as from 1947 only.

of items 1, 2, and 3 before proceeding Bill :- A Bill intituled I would like to assure hon.
is quite agree­ tice of the introduction of the following take the first reading and 5 on the Order of the Day and then to move the suspension of the Standing Rules and Orders in order that the Col­ onial Treasurer should move the second reading with the second reading of the other Bills.

With regard to the Bill intituled "An Ord­ inance further Income Tax Ordinance", Members that Government able to making provision creased I am aware that some hon.
Members, par­ ticularly those connected and business, perhaps be even more abundant estimates conscienti-ously As I have said before, hope that their expectation that occurs, am speak­ ing· with some embarrassment really, speaking in my present can as­ sure hon.

Members that Government will tl)en give consideration in the light of changed events to reducing the Companies' rate of taxation with the long-term of the Econo­ mic Adviser.
that the revenue may than the feels it can in accordance recommendations but position-I present to this Council.

will be fulfilled.
If as Acting Governor-I which Government UNOFFICU\.L with commerce REDec·TrON I sincerely following believe motion :- NOTICE "WHEREAS, this Council views expenditure commitments on with Developmental with grave concern the tremendous increase in Colonial the heavy financial connecti also the subsequent expenditure said works, and in Works for maintenance of the recurrent arm.ual for the early appointment "BE IT RESOLVED that this Council urges on Government the desirability of a Committee sider carefully ment how expenditure in 1048 and subsequent of this Council to con­ and report to Govern­ can be reduced years."
Just before I came into this Council I Mr. RAATGEVER gave notice of the OF' COLON' IA L ExPENOI'l'URE that changing telegram of the textile from the Secretary as regards coal, exports VISIT OF NURSING CoinnssroN of events.

The in It says and the wili have received a of State and I mention that as an example of the continual telegram brings very bad news indeed respect industry.

that owing to manpower shortage difficulty to be reduced by over 50 per cent this year.
I am just telling Members that-1 do not want it reported in the Press.

I have not got the text of the telegram here; it is very long, but that is the gist of it.

The fact is that no Government cisely how it stands in this matter of revenue.

We hope to get an increase this year and I hope that those Members of Council who are strongly will have their hopes fulfilled, to tell you that the telegram just received with regard to textiles.
reported in the Press; I just want to men­ tion it and, probably, ment later.

leader of the Nursing on a visit to the meet Members of the she The PRESIDENT : Before we pro­ ceed with the Order of the Day I should lilce to say that it has been suggested Miss Macmanus, Commission at present Colony, should Legislative leaves on February do so if hon.

Members would like to meet her, and I have suggested next ,�ednesday, might time.
rt will be an informal she will give you very important tion about nursing generally matters at the Hospital siders could be done with normal expendi­ ture.

They are necessary recommend listen that Wednesday would be the first day of the raciJ1g and I would therefore 10.30 o'clock that Members should come and to her.

I have just been informed of this opinion but I want which I have meeting and informa­ and about 14.
She is willing to gives very bad news indeed be a convenient I will make a state- on Wednesday I do not want that can tell pre­ that 2.30 p.m., which she con­ morning.

matters and I suggest Council informally before i473 Bilis (1st Reading) LEGISLATIVE CouNCIL lnc01ne Ta1.

: ( Amclt.)

B-ill 1,174 Mr. ROTH : Sir, I rise to record my business or the that Government for of the State should be delayed protest business the sake of sport.

Mr. JACOB : Hear !

hear !


A Bill intituled "An Ordinance with further to amend the Widows and Orphans Pension Ordinance management respect to the control, of the Fund, voluntary and valuation contPibutions, repayment tions, contributions and payment of pensiorn,; poses connected aforesaid."

of contribu­ after retirement, with· the matters and for pur­ The PRESIDENT : is leaving on the following Miss M::i.cmanus day-Thursday.

Mr. CRITCHLOW: I suggest 10 sir.


a.m. on Wednesday, The PRESIDENT: I suggest that also; will Members please let the Cieri: kn.ow whether that will suit them ?

Wednesday can · come.

She is leaving day arid I think it would be worth Mem­ bers' time to come and listen is the only day on which she to her.

the following The COLONIAL TREA8URER gave of item 5 on the notice that on conclusion Order Paper he would of Standing enable him to proceed stages of .the following Bills Rule and Order No.
9 to :- with the remaining move the suspension Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 1947.

No.

2) Income Tax (Amendment Bill, 1947.

ORDER OF THE DAY DILLS � FIRS'l' READI�G Excess Profits Tax ( Cessation) Bill, 1947.
On motions by the COLONIAL SusPENSIOK OF STANDING OnDER TREASURER the following rea d the flrst time :- Bills were "An Ordinance by increasing in certain by the rate of tax on Com­ A Bill intituled further to amend the Income Tax Ordinance cases the rates of tax on persons, increasing panies other than Life Insurance Companies, of deduction non-resident the rate from interest payable Companies.''

and by increasing to The COLONIAL TREASURER: I beg to move the suspension Order No.
9 in order to enable Rule and me to proceed with the remaining of the Bills in items 1, 2, and 3 on the Order Paper.

of Standing stages The COLONIAL SECRETARY se­ conded.

Motion put, and agreed to.

A Bill intituled "An Ordinance to amend the Income Tax further Ordinance dence of Income Tax and to relief double taxation to the inci­ from with respect and in other respects.''
Jxnnrn TAx (A1.rnN"DMENT) BILL, 19,17 The COLONIAL TREASURER : I now beg to move the second reading Bill :- following of the A Bill intituled "An Ordinance that Excess Profits to make provision Tax shall cease to be charged in respect of any accounting period or part thereof which falls after the thirty-first hundred and forty-five."
day of December, nineteen On motions moved by the Atturney­ General the following first time :- Bills were read the A Bill intituled "An Ordinance by increasing in certain by the rate of tax on Com­ further to amend the Income Tax Ordinance cases the rates of tax on persons, increasing panies other than Life Insurance and by increasing Companies, of deduction to non-resident the rate from interest payable Companies.''
A Blll intituled "An Ordinance amend the Rent Restriction nance, 1941, by enlarging tion and the duration by making provision maximum rents, nected with the matters aforesaid.''

the applica­ of the Ordinance, for the fixing of con­ and for purposes Bills now before the Council Government's taxation.
confine my remar-ks merely to the principle of the Bill, -but I also wish to take this Consequently, I do not wish to to implement to Ordi­ This is the most important of the three Budget proposals relating to 1475 .. income Tax 6 FEBRUARY_, 1047.

(A.melt.)

B,tiz i476 But, before I pass on to deliberation.

that hon.

Members this matter with calm, which is the first afforded to Guiana from to British opportunity me since I returned leave, of mal(ing a review of the whole Budget position.
that, may I suggest should consider dispassionate that the subject great controversy Many pre-conceived this Council.

have been formed, I think, but at least every Member should ' give his fellow­ Member-whether ernment or an Official Member-credit for the intention interest both inside and outside notions is -one which has occasioned of doing his best in the of the Colony.

he is outside We all know the Gov­ which out the year.
It may be by short-term loans at low rates of interest-loans mRture in three or four months or every two or three y�::i.rs as the case may be---or sometimes know them.

Here and in other Colonies.

however, budgeting to keep two the traditional is entirely different and we have by long-term funded Joans as we procedure Budgets.

of The first Budget should contain impor­ or extraordinary Before I deal with the Budg·et proper about this question hon.
difference for budgeting a tremendous to budget for for a deficit.

I daresay we have Guiana Guiana, find it a deficit and why in the British not comparable I want to say something of budgeting Members have seen and heard a lot--!

have seen a Jot in the Press-and been told "why shoulrn't British budget for a deficit ?"

I have heard it said that the great United Kingdom and the United States of America whose economy is far in advance of that of a small place like British necessary can't we do the same.
In the first place, between there is in the United the procedure States of America or the United Kingdom Empire.

The and elsewhere at all.


The two things are Budget in the United Kingdom-let the United Kingdom first--is which embodies of the expenditure of the exchequer embraces tration it also e,mbraces ture which is expected Capital for War is included and on the other side is put the receipts expected other sources, a surplus taxation England, deliberate ture of the United Kingdom should be met half by taxation and that borrowing to come in from taxation and the difference or a deficit.
Deficits us take a statement on the one side ·the whole expenses of the Government, the mass G1 other expendi­ are met by In by borrowing.

a to be paid out during the year.

It expenditure and even expenditure and half by borrowing·, to be incurred.
ancl, sometimes, not only the is conducted being either intended ordinary through- Adminis­ but in the Annual Budget, during the War, there was decision that the total expendi­ our which all capital· of a long-term of Georgetown-and of more or less a revenue but which should be paid for over character not by the current I think on this alone is about tant items of -ordinary expenditure which should be met out of the character, proceeds The of the year's revenue.
second Budget is one which we call a Loan Budget and in that we include expenditure we feel should be b-orne revenue a long period of time.

Therefore, for a deficit is confined to those budgeting items which we thin!, should be carried over a long period.

In this very year, as hon.

M.embers know, our Loan Budget con­ tains a very large number of important items.

We have Town Planning-re­ development our expenditure $1,000,000.

Similarly, sometimes priety; it all depends in that Budget.
Reference ·to Trinidad, You must examine the estimates and see what they have.

If they have a large sum for their development they would be justified deficit.

If we do likewise reservscl for capital be justified, for a deficit and use that surplus erously.

ing the procedure countries time-in the Colonial form a part.
expenditure for a a fund we would expenditure to budget g·en­ I say we are not wrong in borrow­ upon what we include made has been in the ordinary budget for Budget we can a deficit with pro­ in budgeting without where this is done at the present if we have a surplus, That is budgeting but that alone is insufficient.

which obtains Empire of which we for a deficit.

in those The next point I wish to talk about is Budget in 1947, the first the Budget.
I urge that if we balancing want a balanced point is that we must safeguard our sol­ vency.

Let us face the facts.

About two years ago some of us believed of financial sure that we could obtain all the capital that a sort we felt , ha� arrived; millenium 1471 income Ta:c LEGISLATLVE ColJ:t-WiL Bili 1478 ( A melt.)
to put forward and could not we were to announce and, in fact, there was a feeling to be obtained to this a sketch plan of development with Un­ abroad tha.t for the asking· of capital de­ money we required told so.

Sir Gordon Lethem.

sitting in this Chair, ventured Council a total of no less than $108,000,000.

doubtedly, money was and that if we bad schemes velopment get the money from inside the Colony we could get it from outside.
what the real position is; our assistance Colonial under the ment and Welfare Act is of a very limited sum.

We now lmow that certain were contempla ment and Welfare Act was passed, also know that if we are to go on with our we have to find development programme the money ourselves and would have to raise a large loan-and that soon.

Con­ sequently, that we essential equilibrium.


should maintain schemes ted at the time the Develop­ We now ki1ow we !mow that it is absolutely financial Develop­ and we as much as We cannot proceed Fund.

W'e cannot go on as War to supplement that one coming from my lips-is to borrow money outside even within it of this Colony-and -if our finances are not in oTder.
Conse­ we have to preserve quently, of the surplus which we have possible secured during this our funds under Developmemnt and Welfare -our Reserve we did last year and the year before---in the belief that we can get all the money we want.

The third reason - and the strongest if we in this Colony are ever to advance in our Constitutional to maintain our financial I know that the hon.
Member for North Western District I do not say that particular for one moment that his view in the mat­ ter is malignaht: Whilst I and others do not agree, perhaps, with the manner in which he puts for­ ward his argument hope for Constitutional we would not get it unless we are financial -to use a local term.

has many fears as regards question.

we have got equilibrium it is for all of us to but it is very legitimate.

advancement, progress fir.:;t.

Now, as regards the Budget for 1!!47.


the theme is that we want to have a bal­ anced Budget and, at the same time, we want to get rid of a very important re­ venue-yielding item-Excess Profits We want to do both things at the same Tax.

circum­ the surplus to remove from which goes into their of Excess Profits to industrial for a moment that· it is it has become necessary of the ques­ motive from the on account of special which arose during the War.
In such a meas­ time, therefore for us to come to this Council and ask a11proval of the abolition Ta'x which is purely a war-time measure.

Nobody contends a good tax.

It is designed individuals pocl{ets stances time of peace, obviously, ure would have the effect of reduc­ effort which ing incentive to happen.

Quite is a very bad thing· apart from the economic side tion there is a selfish revenue point of view.
The Excess Profits Tax legislation collection; naturally, pens the least paying it will Perhaps it will become non-paying.

Sometimes Profits Tax comes to a point where there and where the pro­ are no excess profits, fits are below the it is standard to claim back from what it entitled before.

I did not want to in­ has paid terfere before the time came, but I do want to point out that from a purely revenue point of view it is desirable get rid of this tax quickly.
Perhaps I should point out that trading conditions are, strictly tive basis and that our trading are still, basis.

concerns more or less.

on an abnormal for does not only provide for refund and, it also provides the more regularly a firm which pays Excess not on a competi­ speaking, become.

that hap­ to of the As 1·egards of this Budget, for 1947 on the basis of existing I think Members have copies.

the details some time ago I made a formal statement in Council about the imposition Budg·et taxation.
of it, and I have asked the Clerk to pro­ vide supplementary copies in case Mem­ bers have not got any.

I have been accused of laying that Statement for Some urge it is just a various wangle, others that I want to cast reflection on those who presented Budget; but I want _Members to believe that my object in seeking· lency's was because I felt it was quite im­ possible Council and debate this there was complete the facts whiP-h st.::1.1·" Budget unless.
and full disclosure for me to come to this to make that Statement permission reasons.

Your Excel­ of H· the nn"' ;n t.h<> f.,,.,, 6 FEBRUARY, 1947.

B1ill 1480 (A_mcit.)

what the position is, Members will see at the foot of the that the Excess Profits Tax on the figures.

I did not yield a surplus put it in for the reason that it would take some explanation.

cau5e later on when I talk about the new basis of our new proposals to this yield as reserve.
I mention it now, be­ we have to refer to devices, quite obviously it on the basis of existing I cannot but disclose the Budget in 1947 by those we could we can balance various have balanced taxa.tion.

Members of Council which is now quite known in this Council, though it may, perhaps, some Members who are prepared port Government's views of those who want the abolition the Excess Profits Tax.

it.

We must put all the facts on the table.


That is the reason for coming and making that formal Statement a few weeks ago, alter the views of to sup­ But I cannot help one might proposals, Will Members please and alter the of be, if that Tax is re­ Consequently, Statement yield for 1947 would tained $2,700,000.

say, if you are going to remove Excess Profits Tax, abolish the whole of it and that $2,700,.000 will go.
But that is not sol, because included in that amount there is a figure of some $900,000 for arrears.

That turn to the Sum­ is to say, tax that is either assessed or to mary at the back of that Statement because be assessed in respect of companies, which I shall have to refer to the figures in some will come in whether Excess Profits Tax detail?
The existing Budget, th.at is to say is repealed the Budget as presented to Members on $900,000 the basis of existing was that the Tax we lose from our Budge.t the sum of expenditure by $1.800,000, and th.at is the figure which we the Council totalled $14,233,311 and, as I have to find in order to retain a balanced have there shown, revenue can be col­ Budget.

lected on the basis of existing to the total of $14,255,720.

we had and have on that basis a balanced Budget.


It is true that we have since further increased ing on supplementary $75,000 here nor there.

estimates another only last week, but that is neither taxation, which has been approved taxation Consequently, or not.

So if we deduc.t that How do we do it?

The first thing is our expenditure our Excess Profits by removing by add­ There is one further item I want to do their esti­ Obviously, they make as good a profits made up from here now.
In preparing they gather from all sources calculate yield of company disclose mates under Incom� Tax the Income Tax Authorities invariably on the basis of the estimated profits and individual information possible.

case as they can as to what compan)I profits are.

In fact the companies · themselves not know what their profits are going to be.

The Income Tax Authorities have to make a good guess having regard to known facts of the year's importations.

When they have calculated allowance of error.


I find among the figures that the Income Tax Department itself made an allowance of $230,000 for its margin of error.

I could have put that figure in with those other figures at the top of the state­ ment.
In other words, I could have shown that the Budget on the basis of existing taxation is not only balanced for what they call their margin the yield they make an but can we are going to in Ex­ y becomes chargeable this : When you release $1,800,000 cess Profits Tax, that amount of money, immediatel to Income Tax.

That is the first step, and since nearly all that mon�y is income from com­ panies we can logically apply the company rate in ascertaining what g·et.
If .the money does not come from companies, whose personal pany rate ?

Therefore, let us apply the company rate and see what we get.

The old company rate which is 33?!

per cent.

or one-third applied duces $600,000.

So you can safely away we have got $600,000 and that leaves $1,200,000 to be got.
rate is as high as the com­ to this $1,800,000 pro­ say right out of $1,800,000, would it come from individuals , The next step is, we say, since this to industry, the consumer is primarily from that source �efore relief and trade, let us see whether we are going to get something we touch the general consumer.

So we put the device of adding a small surtax to our existing Company that 33f per cent.

should be increased by 6�� per cent.

bringing it up to 40 per cent.


It is· proposed be treated it provide as a sort of surtax.

What does ?

It provides Tax.

We propose a.nother $.60.Q,OOO.

tha.t that should 1481 IncO'lne TaJ; LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (Amdt.)

Bill 1482 is paid principally by the 'J:'hat, of course, very people who have been given back the Excess Profits Tax.

The person who does not pay Excess Profits Tax obtains no but what happens to him is he will relief, pay the extra 6f per cent.
The person or company who will get relief from Excess Profits Tax will not seriously the extra 6ff per cent, because it means this : You are giving back Excess Profits Tax and taking 40 per cent.

So let us say he gets relief This increase per cent.

will produce another to the extent of 60 per cent.

of the company ra.te by 6� $60,000.


mind paying I will just digress for a moment to is merely designed remind Members that the Bill in the individual an increase increase scale of rates applicable into parity with the company rate.

It is money, and not designed the yield of it is, sir, also includes rate.

That the to bring· really to collect mal.

almost infinitesi to the individual So we introduce to Customs and burden on him by as non-essentials Cigarettes.

but I am afraid they and the yield to find.


We have the last $600;000 How do we find that ?

We go to the and say the time has general consumer to put further arrived taxing non-essentials.

relating these measures Excise which have as their object increas­ ing the duty on such things as Rum, Beer They are all very and, perhaps, must nice things, be classed from that source is estimated So we are still short of our $600,000.

What I did still want some more money.


was to include this hidden reserve of $320,000 was quite proper, a question that the money put it in.

That is how this second Budget ·which is before you will balance.

will balance by the operation come Tax and the Excess Profits Tax yields in of the increase through the operation the Company Tax to 40 per cent.

and from the by the increase further Customs and Excise Duties and those other figures I have put in.
I felt it but when it comes to if you see is possibly there let us to which I had referred.

of Budget Balancing, It of the In­ derived at $312,600.

We Before I leave off, let us examine who is going to pay this increase pany rate.

Where is the second $600,000 coming from ?

Unfortunately but disclose I cannot all the figures in this instance, in the com­ As from that quarter, Treasury.
As regards from what I call Foreign Tax and are perfectly I have not heard a word of ob­ for the simple and from local trading­ from bauxite.
I can tell Members of the Council that of that money will come about one-third Services and from the Local Commercial Sources two-thirds - from United Kingdom companies from bauxite-$200,000 and $400,000 concerns United Kingdom people it does regards the not matter a single bit to them; if they that money goes do not pay the increase to His Majesty's bauxite, jection reason that they fall for the Excess Profits ing to share in any measure which is to find money to make up the designed deficiency.
a great on this particular deal of the opposition and controve rsy, quarter, came from that particular I think, and I should have thought that if they were called upon to pay a fair and reason­ to what the ordin­ able amount ary consumer in his increased only be satisfied the yield from that source is only $200,000 They had sacrificed but sacrificed a considerably sources.

I have laid some emphasis matter because taxation but be happy.
As I said, larger sum from foreig·n of getting the opportunity is being called upon to pay relief from will­ not only that a.mount in relation they should not .

W'e have been told that the Treasury have com­ governed Departments and have consistently what the taxation and Government failed to measure up the yield of pletely under­ taxation will produce.

estimated I will admit that right away.


They underestimated but had consistently only in so far as the war years were In those years the condi­ concerned.

esti­ tions and factors which mating were completely bers will, perhaps, to which we were exposed days.
On many occasions whether we would receive Consistently r.ware of the seriousness in regard to imports, fectly wise to be on the ultra-conserva,­ tha.n has been more tive side, and the result by accident nnd because mei1ely justified what we not by design we have secured did not expect to get-magnificent in this Colony.

As regards the present we unknown.

Mem­ recall the dangers in those troublous we did not know of the position any imports.
throughout the war we were and we were per­ service 1483 Income Tax 6 FEBRUARY, 194 7.

( Am.rlt.)

B1:Zl 1484 have to be much more careful.


Obviously today when the question tion looms so largely, adopt a useful mean between overestimat­ ing and underestimating, we ex­ pose the community to increased which is not very necessary, of increased taxa­ we must try and to Excess Profits Tax without to pay· more for rum, and beer, if at the same time money to the people who are ask the consumer cigarettes we release liable asking them to make some contribution.

That is what we are doing.


We are putting for­ ward proposals which are completely equit­ able and fair to all classes.

otherwise taxation ought to be particularly contrite I a.m going to admit.

also that the was like $13,750,000.

for 1946 are put down far below In the month of December came in.

So we had a revenue Treasury about last year, 1946.

I find the revised Estimates what they should be.

Here again there is some excuse.


Up to the end of November - eleven months ending November-the collection of revenue by the Treasury $9,000,000.

$4,000,000 last year of something As regards our expenditure many items of works which have been put down the money budgeted for to be spent have not been carried being not obtainable.

We cannot give precisely the expenditure for the simple reason that we must wait for all accounts to come in for public works, etc.
But the position is that we shall end the accounting year of 1946 So our with a deficit well under $500,000.

surplus is still that we will have something intact on our sur­ plus account.

like $5,500,000 out, materials position and is clause 2 which increases the I would like to deal with the Bill.

The is extremely simple.

The main Bill itself section rate of tax on companies cent.

to 40 per cent.

again to emphasize Colonial Stl:l.tement.


from 33,\ per But here I want v1hat the acting said in his Budget He made use of these words : Treasurer "Government proposes in intro­ ducing new Income Tax to make pro­ vision to grant relief for, say, five years of a reasonable of the tax payable by Companies in respect of new enterprises or new undertak­ ings which have as their object the development agri­ cultural, mineral or other natural re­ sources of the Colony."
of the industrial, portion would apl)ea1·s No such provis!o11 in this of that thought.

a but would go to of another Government.

of a m·ovision the most careful which are not registered Bill.

The dtafting nature requires For one thing we could not introduce provision like that and leave it open to companies in British Guiana.
In other words, we could not give relief when that relief not go to the companies the Exchequer His Majesty's Government consulted of that sort, and things in the existing require amendment.

such reforms recommendations Adviser big sum involved.

emphasize from that which to make provision prise What I am trying to is this : There is no going back Government for relief there are a number of Ordinance on the phraseology hopes will he adopted.
based on consideration which the Economic to new enter­ of a section will have to be proposes­ We can authorize It is a very· which of the The PRESIDENT : I do not know if is has got that.

I think that the Council a very important part of your speech.

I would like to emphasize that the Tax Bill before us is an ad hoc measure tion in 1947.
As soon as possible measure will be introduced Economic Adviser is considering a long-term which the in the to raise taxa­ As regards Revenue Estimates for 1947, the same of course, has said, we believe in 1946.

So there for leaving those is the principal for 1947 and we may get mere money.

item.

as Your Excellency and hope that hon.


Members are quite cor­ rect that revenue may prove to be much more buoyant Customs, I find that the Revenue estimate under Customs is put down at $4,700,000, which happens to be precisely sum that we received is reasonable justification figures as they are.
But this is the point : Whether we inflate those figures or not, whether we attach a couple hundreds to Customs ad valorem we must have additional going to retain a balanced the same time give up Excess Profits Tax.

There is no other source, pletely more revenue tion measures If we put new taxation measures we must spread that burden throughout We cannot accept the idea that we may get we cannot escape new taxa­ or specific taxation if we are Budget and at the c-ornmunity.
althoug·h we com­ duties, on 1485 Income Tax LEOISLATIVE COUNOII, ( A.melt.)

Bill 1486 ,- interim.

overlook Colonial I do hope hon.

Members wm not of the hon.

the that statement Treasurer.

and good reason in making up judgment their minds alout it.

I move that the Bill be now read a second time.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : r The COLONIAL SECRET ARY se­ marginal what we call "The is to preserve scale the highest of individuals with chargeable with an income of $1,200 at all.
It only affects a very point to 40 per cent.

That point as a revenue-producing measure.

rate.

The old we have no rates now, were 6c., 12c., 24c., 34c., I must draw attention to group, rate speaking, with we have now put on of 6 per thank you.

I come now to the scale of this scale is not rates.

As I said before, designed The object point of parity" between the company rate and the individual I call it so because rates, In existence 44c., 64c.

per $100.
per $100.

I need not give the reached at the amount, but parity was rate was 34 per point where the marginal cent.

That is to say, It compared with the company rate of 33¼ per cent.

What we have done is to change the" rate at that particular is in respect I would like to reiter­ income over $6,000.

ate that no married man with an income by this Bill at all, of under $720 is affected and no bachelor is affected few people, but the change in the highest Under the existing is 64 per cent.
and, strictly the increase cent.

that 64 per cent.

will come up to 70 per cent.

But Government has accepted one of the recommendations Economic the mar­ on the point of not continuing ginal rate higher than 60 per cent.

It must be clear to all that no Individual is likely to work hard and produce Income to be taxed.

It would strangle kill initiative figure 60 that every dollar above a certain cents of it Is going into In other words, we are only ask­ revenue.
In for 36 cents of what his additional efforts produce.

rate should come down to 60 per marginal cent.

I do not want to overemphasize what I have already bers are quite clear as to· the distribution of this taxation to summarize taken up far too much of the time of the Council, this with asking the Council to consider matter dispassionately of the He is extremely so I would just content myself again, but I have already in I.hat way, if it is known So we feel the highest I had int,ended said.
I think Mem­ Government and use every Adviser.

measure.

strong effort and conded.

Mr. SEAFORD : I rise with certain than bad my opinion until I could have gone and a lot of careful for this reason : When I came when the Budget proposals Today we learn that misgivings back to the Colony I beard rumours about this and that, but I reserved and my decision into the whole matter myself.

I have given It a lot of attentJon thought.


The first thing that I came across when I thought about it, was that the revenue was much greater been anticipated were put forward.

the revenue is even better than was anticipated me misgivings are exactly was very much less than it is now.

One feels that, perhaps, there care taken to get out proper estimates, It naturally cil somewhat suspicious.

accept what the hon.


the Colonial Treasurer there was nothing subversive about far as I see, Government cards on the table and makes Members of this Coun­ is that the Budget prop0sals the same as when the revenue two weeks ago.

What causes has said, and I do believe was not sufficient has put all its However, I it.
As that What I do feel is this-and I blame Government for this : I have was bound to go up - but we have already situation asked more than once here within the last two or three or four years when we saw - when we saw what was happening that expenditure should consider the that Government policy, but future and get out a long-term that was not done.

I think there is one now being put forward, lost quite a few years.

Government has adopted the "hand to mouth" policy of direct taxation throat.
an authority chequer that this Company tax does stifle industrial progress feeling should be reduced £.

That was suggested Party in the House of Commons, but it would pe clone now 1$ very whether its own by no less of the Ex­ than the Chancellor Labour Government and expansion.

In England that the Company tax In the by one shilling I think it Is accepted but Is only cutting It was the general in the present by the Labour 1487 Inc011ie Tctx 6 FEBRUARY, 1947.

Bill (Amdt.)
Bill (Amdt.)

1438 crisis because The intentlon of the economic shortage in of coal and to reduce it was we are doubtful England today-the manpower.

there, h:nvever, tolcl that we must pay it in one form or another.

cess Profits felt it was a drag on industry.

In the United Kingdom the Ex­ but in t.his Colony Tax was removed because they Mr. JACOB : May I rise to a point of ?

Did I hear the hon.

Member information say that Excess Profits Tax was removed in England because ?
was a drag on industry that it it was realised the Colony.

by this is going to get most of its outside and I think we are heading for it rapidly, to move that we do away I do not propose with the Company tax, for more than one reason.

The first is, I feel that t:ix Government money from companies hon.
Members of this Council Certain that revenue is going to meet expenditure are far too because low and that we are going to balance the budget, I am just from England and have seen con­ ditions bility of getting commodities from the United Kingdom for the reason you have just stated, but I am not optimistic the revenue estimates I do not see the possi­ there, and about that.

feel sir.

Welfare, schemes, Education ?


We cannot get it thrnugh Government and it is only by exp1rnsion tha1; would be able to raise revenue in expenc\!­ increase sir, Mr. SEAFORD : That i� c.:irrect, What I do feel is that we here are stifling expansion Government to meet the continual turc which we have in this Colony.

No that expenditure is t0und to one can deny go on increasing; :i.nd ir­ we have drainage rigation Social and so on to carry out.
Where does Gov­ ernment Intend to raise the increased revenue direct taxation; shou1d know that it has sucked that well dry.

I was glad to hear that Government to introduce from taxation should be extended we are not going to get new money to come in if it is going to be relieved for only five years.
I am glad to hear I think the about this proposal outlook think Government in the pa.st; I do not thinlc realises committed face the decision whether it is p1·eparect to throw any of those schemes overboard revenue.

or find increased how Government is going to face it, something what the schemes to which it ls are going to cost, and it has to I do not know but for five years.

I think that for 10 years because a Bili to relieve from taxation Government has to be done.
liecause intends all new industries was far too optimistic is very black for Government.

I I have also noticed the position as and I do not companies in that respect.

revenue exchange I from im­ well and good, but if we do regards the dollar see any improvement cannot see any increased port duties.

If we get more money from that source all not Government -raise the money from somewhere, but where is it going to come frem ?

I see much of it coming from foreign rather than from local ones.
To tax the local companies and the Com­ pany tax is hardly a Company tax be­ cause the only thing that is really taxed is the reserve.

If a man has an incornP.

of $2,400 a year and he has shares in a company, be­ tween his tax and the Company tax and, therefore, only the men with the higher those at the top again-who ing the burden.

great pity to lose the revenue companies incomes - would be bear­ I think it would be a very he would get the difference and have to find it locally.
under the Company tax it is is not r!ght, from foreign The PRESIDENT : Do you agree with what I said :-that we are getting even more dollar?

acute position the as regards into an The Treasurer has referred the budget and I to the of balancing auestion agree with him that we have to arnmge our affairs so that our current meet our current think we would be justified on our reserve at present.

we do that we would be heading in encroaching I think that if for bank- that two years ago expenditure.
revenue should T mP.rlir.tP.rl I do not ·the shorta�e Mr. SEAFORD : Yes, sir, I told several from Members here when I returned England that we are going to feel the posi­ tion as regards of coal and I know from the shortage mt own experience which that materials in March this year had to were expected be postponed and I do until September, not think the position in a hurry.

I do not propose of manpower.


to touch on is going to improve will have to raise taxatior, i489 income iax LEGISLATIVE Cou�mL (�1mdt.)

Bill 1490 the question Profits Tax now, of .Excess because there is a Bill coming up which will deal with it and which will have to :l be debated.

I accept the principle, how­ Tax is a burden '!

ever, that Excess P1·-fits throughout and I think it is recognised the world that it should be taken off.
It every has been removed in practically Trinidad countl·y - the United Kingdom, As the Colonial Treas­ and other places.

out, you will get 40 per urer has pointed cent of the 60 per cent from the Company tax.

taxation fui-ther down from its very high this Colony to increase is to · at a time when the world tendency bring taxation in­ wartime peak.
High taxation stifles to dustry and destroys that incentive effort which is so necessary greate1· if this areas is Colony with its vast undeveloped sir, that Gov­ to progress.
ernment did not accept the counter-pro­ posals of the Unofficial Members for bal­ ancing the Budget, its· but has announced of the intention to withdraw consideration Excess Profits Tax Bill if Members do not approve of the increased tax, It is regrettable, rates of income that new Adviser the undertaking that also that Government number of years.
It has been should be free from taxation I have accepted this Bill will be enforced for one year only, and I have also accepted the recommen­ dation of the Economic companies for a certain promised no new commitment dertake less it is an exceptional want to be committed of hundreds of thousands we do not know where the money is coming to give from.

If Governm1:,nt those undertakings to sup­ port this Bill.

is prepared I am prepared would un­ un­ whatever case.
We do not to an expenditure when of dollars I do not think it was properly stated re­ in the United Kingdom, in the past as to how we should meet the future, that right and we should consider away before more money is thrown The Treasurer away on these things_ ferred to the difference between budgeting here and budgeting but I do not think it would be fair to com­ pare the two things be:!ause in Er:gland the War has cost them a frig·htful of money while it has cost us very litile here.
Therefore, to compare with that in England.

As regards sonal tax, I can see perfectly well that tax is r aised-as unless a high personal the case of the Company tax-what ing to happen.

Therefore, oppose .

the proposals respect.
I do not think it is fair here the system of budgeting set out in that I would not the per­ is go­ sum in Mr. RAATGEVER: Perhaps I should of record that the state for the purposes majority Council tion because me1Jtal of the Unofficial are still Members of this taxa­ to increased they feel it would be detri­ to the interest of the people of opposed Treasurer In order to avoid pitfalls not to continue ,1:ates and choose of the two evils some Members their opposi­ a clause is inserted the period of operation the lesser have decided tion to the increased of income tax, in the Bill provided to Decem­ limiting ber 31, 1947.
You, sir, have been good enough to give an undertaking in your opening remarks that this would be done, while the Colonial intention that it is Government's the Ordinance so as to give relief indust.i}es.

The Colonial however, not made any reference for wear and tear or to increased ances for families, proposed was accepted be grateful, by Government as to its intention which were given in the those promises Budget Statement.

by hon.

Members.
by hon.

Members.

I would is given to honom· to relief allow­ both of which were when this Bill has stated to amend to new· Treasurer has, sir, if r;ome indication to be introduced The PRESIDENT : The hon.

Mem� will now District bcr for North ·western address the Council.

Mr. RAATGEVER: I was asking· for as to Government's inten­ some indication tion in this matter of increased especially.

allowances family The COLONIAL TREASURER : Is the hon.
Member suggesting- in the Bill should be car.ded that is to say that the figure should be from 24 per cent ?

increased that the rate upwards­ that Mr. RAATGEVER: I am saying· the rate should from 24 to 30 per cent.

We did not agree to that.

not have been increased · 1491 Income Tax G FEBRUARY, 1947.

(A.rncit.)

Btli 1492 The COLONIAL TREASURER : The Mr. SEAFORD : Th.ey are looking read about the funnier today.

hon.
hon.

Member has himself rntes proposed fl1-0m that th.is rate has not been increased 24 to 30 per cent.

That increase is not in the Bill.

in the Bill and should see Mr. RAATGEVER : You have an increase in the rate, fundamentally.

The COLONIAL TREASURER: No; it is 24 per cent.

showing a deficit of Mr. JACOB : · In 1945 when the Bud- I did not hear the hon.
Member he feared then as he does g·et was presented $2,700,000 grumble because now that direct taxation would have to be levied to meet that deficit.

Further, last yeai: when the Budget was presented ancl there was a deficit of $2,892,000 the hon.

Member said nothing.

Mr. RAATGEVER: I am sorry about that.

Mr. SEAFORD: Is the hon.

Member satisfied that Budget Statement that I was in the Colony when was presented ?
Mr. JACOB : I am happy in the nevertheless, Profits substan­ Mr. JACOB : I find myself a bit con­ I as I did on fused, Your Excellency, stand in the same position December 4, when I supported tially which are now the Budget proposals to be passed by this Council.

I am not at all very happy about the Excess we did not know as much Tax Bill because then as we know now.
If I say anything which might appear to be against the other Bills ·on the Order Paper I should be excused, not been presented time as regards present for 1946 and 1947.

The hon.

the position Colonial 1'reasurer the question raised to why the Colony should budget for a deficit again this year, but I think the hon.

gentleman attempted by several has up to the the entire Budget to this Council because knows the reason himself.

to explain people as a very fair picture this and that.
that everyone in this Council that we should do something to at the end of Treasurer the finances of this country.

realises knowledge realises rehabilitate Even the Colonial I am also glad to hear that the surplus remained at over $5,000,000 1946-I think he said 5 % million I think the time has arrived ment should use that money for develop­ ment works; we cannot allow it to remain there lying in the Treasury it thing is not done to utilise might be frittered away.
We have got the brains here I think and we have got to our own plan as if we were planning business.

and if some­ it prnperly when Govern­ dollars.

I am glad, however, The people of this Colony have been to be presented with Budget accustomed deficits from year to year for many years now, and they feel that the proper thing to do would have been to budget again for a deficit.

majority did no( !

'zel so last year and do not feel so now.

I was quite surprised hon.


Member for Georgetown he had predicted the Colony was heading and suggerited when the North said for some time now that towards that our surplus of the Members of this Council that the bankruptcy be reserved.

Mr. SEAFORD: May I refer the hon.

Member to Hansard of March 10, 1944?

It was as long ago as 1944, Mr. JACOB : Possibly that was not during the consideration ment.

That was probably were looking funny.


of a Budget State­ when things .budget position of this Council I ask hon.

M.ember,s to as into their own finan­ If we were doing that we look into the Colony's if they were looking cial position.

would have been in a far better position today.

I think it is a great mistake to allow the public to entertain the idea that it is a proper thing to budget fm deficits from year to yea1:.

I think a good many peop:e in this Colony have that idea.
The PRESIDENT : I got into a terrible lot of hot water the other day when I said we were determined Budget.

to balance the Mr. JACOB : That was lip service.

thing to do at Perhaps it was a tactful the time, to throw Government balance.

a proper thing to It is, however, try and balance our Budget.

The Treasurer thing to have an unbalance knows that it was not a proper ·d Budget-un- off its i493 income Tax LEGISLATIVE Cou.N°crL ( A melt.)

Bill 1494 on these that extent.


How­ I must lay stress to let all Officers of Gov­ to the tune of nearly $3,000,000 of the Mem­ feel that I was tackling balanced without knowing where to raise revenue to meet expenditure to ever, I am happy in the knowledge that Government and the majority bers of this Council the right thing during the last tlnce or four years.

I was a bit amused to hear the Colonial Treasurer ernment's Estimates.
always right and with the composition of this Council come at any time and get Supplementary Estimates passed.

I would not worry about that because Government has the right and the prerogative them passed.

off the balance.

facts.

I think it is the duty of the Execu­ tive Government ernment know that they are to handle promptly-reply matters ndence and give the promptly public as much If that had been as possible.
information going on, the work of this Council not have been are in February posals which should December.

about it, but work on time and to see that things are properly Perhaps some of us are happy I am not.

I like to do my delayed so long.

He1:e we Budget pro­ considering method in preparing these Of course, as it is Government can to come here and get have been passed in the method was speak about Gov­ to correspo in rega1;d done.
would how­ As regards Treasm1er of Revenue, and this Colony would Estimates ever, I must say that if the Government for the preparation of Officers responsible these figures were more competent every­ one in this Council not have been misled.

We had the Colonial telling us two weeks ag·o wl1y the 1947 Budget was balanced, he did not disclose Budget was wrong Today, he tells us that the deficit instead of being 2i million dollars half a million dollars.

Colonial about these figures.


I do ask the to be more careful by over $2,000,000.

even then that the 1946 Treasurer would be only but The PRESIDENT : It i5 good news.

Mr. JACOB : Yes, it is good news but us to let­ recently replies things properly.

it throws us off balance and prevents After all from planning there are certain Officers who are well paid t-o look after these things and whether they do their work I do not know.
I have been trying to convince the Secretariat that every ,real businessman ters.

I see the hon.

the acting Colonial Secretary receive within a day or two.

giving facts and figures which would take Government month to do, and tho�e replies were variety of subjects.

business we have Government paid to do their work, not doing it on time, and who take so long to do it that by the ti!lle you get it you lose the threads I look upon this here as my own business.
Here Officers, who are well I have been able to and to reply to them is smiling.

letters lengthy Officers a and go on a I am satisfied for 1947, acc-ording .

One understands let us take one item-Customs and the for 1946 is $1,396,000 to Government myself that we are work­ ing under great disadvantage to these revenue figures.

'!

'hey are on the low side, and If you apply reason to these to us and figures that have been presented you would reasoning take the Government's find they are wrong.
Where­ practically ever you take out a set of figures and look at t11em you find them all wrong.

For instance, Ad Valorem Duties.

The actual revenue collected estimate figures, is $1,600,000 that.

One understands expect a greater volume of a higher value.
So one expects will be an increase when you take Customs-Specific Duties­ you find that $2,100,000 1946 and the estimate put down at $2.000,000 In the one case you estimate for $200,000 mo'i� and in the other case you estimate for $100,000 that specific increasing stated figures, but with should have been of trade that estimate .

Then we have the Export Tax.

increased Government admits that that could have been increased $75,000 less.
One can understand duties are based on certain that we should of goods and goods there for 1947 has been less .. only $100,000 as put down, a shortage of $50,000.

to $125,000 instead we received of $200,00:J in 1947.

But volume in of I just give those figures to show that from a disadvantage particularly here we are suffering from those as a result of no co-operation the Colonial responsible, Treasurer, holder of the the permanent office, and other Officers.
One should be but it is not able to reason -these things, do so.

This my job-not my business-to 1495 Income l'ax 6 FEBRUARY, 1947.

( ..'!melt.)

Bill 1496 Colonr is paying these experts a decent salary to look after but year after year we get these figures in such a way that, as a result, thing is unbalanced the whole and becomes chaotic.

and Officers its business, year, 1945 or 1946.

All I said was, it would be rem2ved oi· had been removed and that Excess Profits the United Kingdom.
Tax has ccme to an end in Mr. SEAFORD: I did not say any I am not at all satisfied in regard to I in- in the higher reasoning about Excess the higher income groups, as the people in the those of the higher Gove1nment's Frofits Tax and Income Tax.
This is not a violation of what I said that I am sup­ -porting the Bill for Income Tax, because -when the 1946 Budget was discussed dicated then that Income Tax should have l>een higher, particularly income groups_ I have always been 'reminded, every time I speak on Income 'Tax einbracing of the fact that a despatch came to this Colony from Lord Moyne, then Secretary of State, wherein he emphasized the fa.ct t;hat the people in England are not living on as high a standard Colonies, particularly income groups.
He said some of the people here have so much wealth, so much n1oney, as to live in luxury most of the time, but as r·egards those people who are barely living-who are being paid wages below subsistence level-it is distressing to see them.

He has visited this Colony and so knows conditions here.
He recom­ mended that the lower income groups should be paid higher wages or income so that their standard of living should improve, and that those who enjoy a luxurious life should be reduced so as to have a balance.

would reply "We are doing that by putting forward this proposal."

far enough.

This proposal goes to some extent to Temedy that evil, but it has cofoe far too late.

It should have been brought fortWard long ago.


So I say, when it comes to that part of the Income Tax Bill, I am sorry l cannot agree with of the Unofficial to this additional in favour of this Income Tax Bill.

Members who are opposed I am wholly But Government the majority But it does not go taxation.

somewhat Regarding the Excess Profits Tax, I am at all.

The hon.
The hon.

the Colonial stressed the point that afraid I cannot follow Government's reasoning Treasurer P1:ofits still doubtful the United Kingdom as from 1946.

I do not accept the statement Member for Georgetown North.

that it has been removed in Tax is a war-time measure.

I am of the hon.

Excess in this war is worse bloody war.

So I say that the MT.

JACOB : I think I have got it quite clear.


It will be removed or has been removed, I maintain this : The bloody war has fiinshed but the economic war goes on, and which is worse I do not know.

So far as we are concerned Colony, I think the economic than the reason given for the removal of the Excess Profits Tax in 1945 holds no water at all so far as I am concerned.

I am opposed to it.
I am opposed to it.

Some of us will tr.y to see what can be done about it, and I will suppOTt the view that the matter be left in abeyance to be Teconsidered later on and to be removed as from the end of 1946 or 1947.

But it is a grave mistake to remove the Excess Profits Tax .

as from the end of December, especially going to yield such a huge sum of money-­ $2,700,000 less $900,000 $1,800,000 - thereafter to be paid by way of a Company Tax.
That is what you are going to lose by passing say this Government blundered tempting as from 1945. very seriously indeed, in at­ to remove the Excess Profits Tax 1945.

It is a grave mistake when it is considered has blundered, and this Bill.

So I for enors - that it is .. was information information has the· fullest as to what this tax is going to was I agree that an assurance given must be carried out, but I am.
·not quite clear whether an assurance given that Excess Profits Tax would be removed from 1945 ..

This is 1947 and we are making it retrospective.

Government possible yield.


Perhaps pr.ivate given and perhaps public information too, but I think it is obvious that Government what the Excess Profits Tax yielded at the end of 1946, and yet this Gov­ ernment comes here and says "We are prepared to remove this tax and we are going to tax rum, cigarettes because those things are non-essential That is not right; that is not proper !
It is not decent; Here you have the people who are making these excess profits over their normal profits it is grossly immoral.

and beer s." has a clear idea as to 1497 Income Tcix LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ( Amclt.)

Bill 1498 percentage profits gained through an being made to pay a certain back-excess economic war through certain them at a very high margin of pl'Ofit as only Contrpl people can import goods and sell that is going on here, of a vicious kind, may not repeal it next year.
Why be fear­ ful of that fact if it is just, moral and right?

I cannot understand Profits Tax is not repealed never be repealed not proper, for that.

What conclusion to?

now, it may in a year or two?

That is and the Government has fallen it.

If this Excess am I to come Mr. HUMPHRYS; To a point of order !

Are we speaking Tax, or are we speaking of Excess Profits of Income Tax ?

The COLONIAL TREASURER : I gather it is the whole field and, I think, the speak on it.

hon.

Member is entitled to Mt'.


HUMPHRYS: Then we will be here for two days.

Mr. JACOB : Perhaps it is unpleasant, because possibly about Excess he is not But I am in business and I and so I say I am talking Profits Tax.

My hon.

Friend is not aware of the situation, a businessman.

know what I have felt and what other people have felt; also what the big stores have been doing, what has happened and is happening I am fully alive to the implications.
ernment knowning these details, these facts, says "Oh, no; we cannot do this because we have given an undertaking.''

I do not think it is right.

and may happen up to 1948.

Gov­ say recently say "We things."

to listen to the hear what they have where we can collect at least, we find Government to do that and coming forward which I heard this povernment that it has instructions views of the people, to say and meet them as much as possible.
I have also heard Government to do certain are quite prepared Yet in this instance $1,000,000 1·efusing and saying "We have given a promise to honour".

I think certain we are g·oing· Members said you have made some promise and you must honour it.

I ask Govern­ it proposes carefully what ment to consider to do in this matter.

Government's pro­ Members posals will go through as certain are in favour of them, but I trust some­ thing may be done later on about it.
I am not going to say very much more at the moment, as I think I have said enough.

I have made one or two points, to reconsider ask Government There is still time and, perhaps, for another sider the matter tomorrow Council deserves very Government.

and I would the matter.

if I speak may recon­ or when the meets again.

I think this consideration matter by hour Government very careful The COLONIAL TREASURER : I never used the word "undertaking".

merely said what was decided and is put to the Council.
tall{ I was careful or solemn obligation.

I being not to about undertaking can.

We have development works Mr. JACOB: Perhaps not by the hon.

We want to get as much mpney as we You do estimate.

The fact is, here we have that and then you come around I repeat-and something $1,000,000.

Member, but the word was freely used in this Council.
people who have made millions upon mil­ lions of dollars-millions you have a chance of collecting already earned in 1946-over Let us put a reasonable not collect and put forward all kinds of proposals to tax a man's cigarettes, cannot use stronger words approval, of the masses in this Colony who have no time.

at the present Legislature voice in this But these things will be borne in mind.

This Council, if the of the fact that the next Council, Book.

Ordinance possibly in view.


We have a very excellent Econ­ to the Government.

He has omic Adviser that this thing be riemoved, but advised perhaps he did not know all of its impli­ cations.

development ceeded with as rapidly gave some Statement he stated that in some of the big schemes -Bonasika shortage has been possibly else.

We are committed They have going to bring relief and to the peasants, good to the Colony as a whole.

I am He has advised too that the of the Colony should be pro­ as possible.
H e and Torani Schemes-there is a which to the sugar industry a.nd will do a lot rum, and beer.

I to show my dis­ to those schemes.

They are remains on the Statute to be put through.

and it is in support as it is, is fearful constituted of the views recently misspent or something i n which of of nearly $1,500,000-money 1499 Income Tax 6 FEBRUARY, 1947.

(Amclt.)
(Amclt.)

Bill 1500 wholly in favour of those schemes being carried through, would like those schemes to be carried through, "Where ts the money to come from?"
but they are guided by the fact Most Members here of money on those of all kinds of articles spent on them to production If the money is mis·" levy direct taxfl.tion other projects We must and not a large number of in­ to bear taxation, I am going to appeal to Members to oppose the removal of the Excess Profits Tax, so that we will be certain from that soul'ce.

spent and we are to finance those schemes, what are we going to do ?
Are we going to allow those schemes to go overboard and the money already go west ?

There are several that must be carried through.

increase or otherwise people who are making money.

If it is in their interest to have just a few in� dustries dustries have to pay until the to extend its industries development what the hon.

1\1:ember has said, that the North (M1•.

Seaford) Colony is not going to improve unless we have new industries.

to start them.
to start them.

Are we going to allow them to go overboard, our rice production on the coast1ands Are we not going to do other things in the Colony which the peasants can do but do not have an opportunity those peasants than three days a week ?

I say it is a most short-sighted ment to reconsider let it remain on the Statute other year at least.

then they would Colony can afford and start other policy.

Excess Profits Tax and works.


I have seen from who are working not mote for Georgetown Here is our chance I ask Govern­ to do now­ or are we going to inci·ease and our cattle-rearing and in the interior ?

as regards what the Customs year.

told Government spent days on that and, I think, we con­ that we could almost get, vinced ourselves to if not the whole, the amount required balance the Budget.
Government would not accede to that and said they did not want to take any risk, and we were too optimistic revenue would be during the current To cut a long story short, us "If you do not pass the Income Tax Bill and the Customs (Amendment) Bill and agree with Government's taxation Profits Tax Ordi:.1:.mce".

That is the whole long and short of it.

It has been a direct threat that if we do not do this Government we will not repeal the Excess will not do that.
method of undertaking that is the for the last two that I understood Lhat there would be n0 of I have understood years that there was a definite by Government Excess Profits Tax in 1947 in respect the year 1946: that it would be repealed and finished with.

I believe case in England and, I think, Trinidad, but I am not certain.
undertaking was a definite not only given to this Council mercantile Government Unofficial did not propose request Income Tax on com­ panies and on individuals, put directly repeal of the Excess Profits Tax Ordinance comes after this Bill to increase Tax.

the temper of the Members and found that they community.

When, ascertained to increase that threat was however, to us.
For that reason the by Government, to accede to Government's but to the Income Government will not accept the chal­ to Book for an­ after one of our private dis­ meetings Representatives Mr. HUMPHRYS I am sorry hnn.

Members are finding it rather difficult decide what they should do about these two Bills.

For my part that difllculty appeared at which Government were present.
ginning, meetings Ways and Means, that if the Unofficial Members were opposed to Government's proposal Tax on companies \vould raise Income of ·fncreasing als, we and individu means, We from the be­ when we were having those private the Estimates and discussing as· a piece of politi­ on the part of Government lenge to take the Excess Profits Tax Bill Customs Bill first and then fight out the on its merits.
The threat is held over our heads that if we do not pass this will not repeal the Excess Profits Tax Or­ dinance.

me.

rightly cal blaclcmail at all.

If the So it gives me no difficulty Excess Profits T·ax is to remain unless the Income Tax Bill is passed, then than of this Council to support come Tax.

as it will be a ghastly for this Government on the Excess Profits coumg·e Capita) from i;:oming into this mistake to think of keeping Tax.
That will dis­ One businessman revem1e by other I understood or wrongly, described in respect have no alternative the proposed increase Members Bill they of In­ it to and .

1501 Income Ta:r; LEGISLAT!YE Couxc1L ( �.tmclt .)

Bill 150:l that the be that an for next year may probably and the result will be will be passed again in 1947.

I warn Members of Council Estimates $18,000,000 Ordinance not only carrying ing them.

Do not let us fool ourselves we are only doing this for now.
It will go on every time because Government expendi­ ture is increasing on these rates but increas­ year after year.

1948, that initiative of business of their business.

Colony and in every way prevent and expansion of which we are sorely in need, because during the war people had to pay this tax instead of put­ ting by a reserve for expansion and im­ provement I say with­ out the slightest tially the Excess Profits Tax Ordinance and as a matter of fact the sooner' we do it the better.
I say "the sooner" every day the tax remains Capital out of the Colony.

hesitation for this Colony to rnpeal at once, because is ki:!pt that it is essen­ necessary has been i11ereased income of $8,400 My mind is made up because of the threat and, therefore, I am driven to this.

I must support very unwillingly and regret­ fully the increase of the Income Tax.

I am going to wind up by saying this : The hon.


Member for North Western District (Mr. Jacob) talks of the necessity for tax­ ing those who have in order to provide for those who have not.

I am not going to deal with any question of who have and who have not, but I want to remind the hon.

Member of this.

The Income Tax Ordinance was first passed in 1928 when the tax on a chargeable was only $396.

The rate proposed now works out at a tax of $1,896 on an income of $8,400.

What does that mean?


Income Tax on the individual by 500 per cent.

since the tax has been introduced.

That increase has gone on all the time every year, and now we l'ind om·­ selves in this position-tha .t irom a tax of $396 on a chargeable income of $8,400 in 1928 it has gone up to $1,896 on that same income in 1947.

The hon.

Member talks about if the charge is not sufficient Gov­ ernment should charge more.

When hon.

�Members say those things they do so with their tongues in their cheeks.
If yon look at the figures you would see how absurd it is to make such a suggestion.

Income Tax has risen tremendously in England, and I agree that it there for more than 100 years, but it has gone up high there because of th'e great War Vote.

Our Income Tax is going up steadily and is not being used for any useful purpose at all, and want hon.

Members to fool themselves to what will be the effect of this, and that Government ing and put it into the Ordinance increase to go up.
I do not as is going to give an undertak­ that the of the year will only be in respect it will continue has existed The PRESIDENT : Is the hon.

motion ?

Member moving any particular Mr. HUl\U-'HRYS : I am going to give is saying : to do what it an opportunity done.

Government Government has already "If you do not pass this Income Tax and this Customs Ordinance.

agreeing Government, we will n:.

;i; repeal the Ex­ cess Profits Tax Ordinar;ce."


That, to my mind, is a direct threat which I have no doubt will be carried out.

with The COLONIAL TREASURER : I must make this point.

It is an imperati ve situation and we propose to replace the Excess Profits Tax by other means.

It is not a case of holding out a threat.

The PRESIDENT : I would just like was it ever sug­ by Sir Gordon followed of another tax.

The hon.
The hon.

Mem­ to say that in no statement Lethem or Government gested t�a.t the removal of the Excess Profits Tax would be by the increase be1:_has accused Government threat, is in a bad position.

Tax continues unless Order in Council, while Ordinance must be re-enacted.

The Excess Profits it is removed by an the Income Tax on December 31 and of making a expires That is the position.

but the fact is that Government the Income Mr. HUMPHRYS : Words cannot be removed from their context.
Government makes itself clear and says "We are not going to repeal the Excess Profits Tax unless you agree to increase Ta..x."

If that is not a threat I do not know what is.

Are those words capable of any other interpretation ?

If Your Excellency then why not take the Excess Profits Tax Bill first and let us fight this on its merits ?

I am sure Government would not do that because they know the chances are that the Excess Profits Tax Bill would not be passed.
does not think I am right, l:i03 Income, 'J'ru, 6 FEBRUARY, 1947.

( Amdt.)

Bill 1504 are not existing Book of this Colony.

I am sure, however, can argue today still subsidizing disappeared.

I think they have worsened; and that no hon.


Member here would b e bold enough to say that War conditions have Instead, if that is so there is every justification for retaining the Excess Profits Tax Ordi­ nance on the Statute I fail to see how Government that War conditions when we have Government commodities Those a.re two important to the introduction because under control goods are difficult to get and under our system of control distribution to one's quota he business.
According might be in a position to accumulate ex­ cess profits while many other traders might not be able to make even normal profits.

factors of Excess Profits Tax, and still carrying on control.

is made on the basis of past relating­ The COLONIAL TREASURER is that the Excess Profits would happen Tax Bill would go through.

: What myself, is fooling Mr. HUMPHRYS : The Colonial himself.
Treasurer, unlike U the Excess Profits Tax Bill is put to the vote first I am sure only about four Mem­ bers would vote for it, whereas the major­ ity of Members do not want income tax increased.

I congratulate Government for but I must say I do not know its action, action in years Government's if in future this matter is going to redound to its credit at all.

I think that although the Colonial Treasurer found 1n another direction feel that this Sword of Damocles not be held over their heads.
I am sup­ porting I cannot do this measure because any better.

I am going to vote for the Income Tax Bill under protest and one of these days it is going to be recorded against Government blackest deeds Government would not do it, but I suggest that it should take the Excess Profits Tax Bill first and take this afterwards.

hon.

Members should that this is one of the says revenue could be in its history.
I know that have If these abnormal conditions substantial some people to make excess profits, they be made to contribute to the revenue of allowed why shouldn't something the Colony from those profits ?

I still feel, sir,-and there could be hardly any doubt about it-that as far as the mercantile excess profits ably for an indefinite surprised tain Members who are now supporting Increased supporting Tax.

made by cer­ the rates 9f income tax rather than community is concerned prob­ would be earned period.
I was a bit at the somersault the retention of Excess Profits I have no doubt that the conditions if we abolish to Government Excess who continue created for an­ by the War will continue other few years if not for an indefinite period.

Therefore, Profits Tax those persons to make excess profits would be able to put them into their own pockets.
I am to consider appealing to the several whether it would be equitable sections cess Profits Govern.ment decides that any excess profits made should not be paid into revenue, then it would be inconsistent dization course, this Income Tax BUl because of the ex­ planation and control of commodities.

to support it was not my intention Finance Committee.

Tax at the present of the community to retain subsi·­ I gave in to remove Ex­ time.
If Of firstly, If there was under existing Budget and the Budget to obtain relief has issued a threat to I do not share the view of the would not have been speaking the Budget and, from Excess not this double it, is As stated by the it is intended, Mr.

PEER BACCHUS : The intro­ duction of this Bill, as I understand for a double purpose.

Treasurer, Colonial to assist in balancing secondly, Profits Tax.

purpose we about a balanced would have been balanced taxation.

hon.
hon.

Member who has just taken his seat that Government this Council.

ls optional choose which of these two Income Tax or the Excess Profits Tax - should remain on the Statute Colony.

It was stated by the Acting Colonial ment that Government repeal the of a promise.
gave such an undertaking, assume that thought that conditions changed after the cessation I would rather say that it to for Members of this Council taxes-the Excess Profits Tax in redemption that Government I can only in the Budget State­ had decided to would have of the War.

when it did so it reasonably Adm�tting Treasurer Book of the 1505 Income Ta.x LEGISLATIVE CouxcIL (A111dt.)

Bill 1506 and and War Bonus.

that we should Budget.
There might would have been balanced without and we would still to remove the Ex­ I think these two for a total of some It is said that income tax tax in the world, but I think I know, sir, that income tax is a hard tax for some people to bear and that some people are of the opinion ·carry an unbalanced ·be some good argument in that because of the fact that in the 1947 Budget we items for which ·will have two extraordinary nothing but the War is responsible, those are subsidization If we did not have these two items the 'Budget in taxation any increase nave been in a position ·cess Profits Tax, because items are responsible $2,000,000.
is the fairest we should be careful are fixing.

I do agree that if unreasonable Tates are fixed they might-interfere justice, similarly if it were not for abnormal cess Profits Tax would not have been earned.

In fixing this tax I thinlc Gov­ view in ernment has taken a very liberal _giving selecting to the War as a basis.
I think that is a liberal to calculate with but I do not think one can speak and firms the option of one of the best three years prior about Excess Profits Tax because for anyone to be given their normal profits on.

individuals about the rates we conditions condition Ex­ Since the majority any longer, inconie tax community of the Un­ I will not delay the Council but will say that this increased will affect the commercial greatly.
official Members are in favour of it, how­ to lend them my sup­ ever, I am prepared port.

In so far as the Excess Profits Tax to oppose the I am prepared is concerned, I hope hon.

repeal of that Ordinance.

the dis­ Members would not experience when of seeing the tax repealed -pleasure it should remain and I think Government should reconsider its proposal the matter and withdraw to repeal the tax.

Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I am not quite in this matter.


with no idea of getting it is merely a p:iintless mis­ Members not like the hon.

Member for Eastern Dem­ has held Government erara who says that out a threat to the Council I would say direction to decide whether Excess Profits Tax should remain.
I do not think it should be put on record that we have all been threat­ ened with the Sword of Damocles, but I think it should be on record that we have been told by the Economic the 40 per cent Company tax is not one which should stand for any length of time.

but should only remain for an intermediate period.

We have been advised that should not be permanently commercial community.

Adviser that placed on the it The PRESIDENT : The hon.

Member was not here when I made that point at the beginning.
Mr. WIGHT: I am supporting the to exports and not touch for a surplus.

the point are sup­ as originally pro­ we we would have had I am supporting this repeal of that tax.

I advanced so�e time ago although lawyers posed to know nothing about finance.

I that if we had allowed the feel, however, Bill to stand as it was first published we would have been budgeting If the tax had remained posed, with all the increased have had in bauxite much more revenue.
Bill, but I think we should endeavour stem the tide of expenditure our surplus.

I do not think we should say we would not vote any supplementary some would have to be estimates, passed.

I support the Bill in toto and the hon.


Member for East- would support by , in one particular respect ern Demerara saying that during t-he time this is in pro--·•· gress we would not be able to do anything as regards torney General's ties in printing Bill on Income Tax which we were told we were going to get and which is going to make certain 38.

That is to the parent Bill-Chapter why I think we should ask Government to give an assurance promise, as regards perhaps before the year is out.
to difficul- the whole comprehensive • and adjustments office owing amendments the shortage fulfilling of staff in the At­ because their things stated by the but perhaps he would cor­ clear about certain hon.

Member, rect me if I am wrong.

No less an authority of the Exchequer in than the Chancellor England, has told the Bri­ tish Parliament that Excess Profits a damper on initiative.

.fore be careful -of retaining Tax puts We should there­ as regards any intention the Excess Profits Tax.
I am Mr. Hugh Dalton, The PRESIDENT : Does any other Member wish to speak ?

I will ask the to reply.

Do you wish Colonial to reply, Mr. Treasurer Treasurer ?

1507 Income Tax 6 FEBRUARY, '1D47.

rA_mdt,) Bill 150S- The COLONIAL TREASURER : Not sir, I think: there are one or two at length, points as regards undertakings should mention, I hate that word.

that I Mr, HU!v!PHRYS: I know you do.

proposes That has been.

of five years.

and I myself feel that ten years.

the hon.


Member for Central to move an amendment that he thought the period should be 10· years instead considered is a very long period to exempt any con­ cern from taxation.

I have never heard of any such period given in any other part.

of the world.

The last undertaking asked.

be introduced.

for was that an arrangement to make this Bill expire at the end of 1947.
I understand Demerara in that clause which I will accept I do not think there is anything else I want to comment on.

I do, agree in some respects with the· contention in respect Berbice said as much in my opening want it to be remembered the Excess Profits Tax is removed the real fact is that 40 per cent.

of the yield still comes back into revenue.

whole that is being released.

agTee with him that at the present there are instances being made.

I do not think I need say­ anything of the hon.


Member for Western of abnormal profits.

r remarlcs.

time profits that although.

..

I entirely· of abnormal It is not the more.

..

I Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the second time.

to give any undertaking, to I am that no new items w"ith regard to would be undertaken.
as such is in regard and rehabilita­ The COLONIAL TREASURER : I think the hon, Member for Georgetown North said he wanted Government promise expenditure not in a position but I do say that expenditure bound to come up, particularly to what I call restoration tion of our assets.

We have presented Budget with huge sums in it, but we might and also de­ decide to restore cide on partial of our road­ wa.ys.

Those are things which call for Budgets say that no new commitments undertaken.
Government its Administration Service for producing purpose, line between expenditure.

What we can say is that as rega.rds The Public unless it is or some productive would be careful services.

should not be extended our railways restoration and there should be a dividing to would be with a deficit and it is difficult productive revenue a and unproductive Mr RAATGEVER: The Colonial has already Treasm:er an undertakin� would be undertaken sulted beforehand.
given this Council that no new expenditure unless we are con­ COUNCIL IN COMMITTEE.

into Com­ The Council mittee to consider resolved itself the Bill clause by claus.e.

Clause 2 -Insertion 22 and 23 in the Principal of new sections Ordinance.

The PRESIDENT : The hon.

Member -must know tllat no new expenditure be undertaken -council.

Georgetown ·expenditure would the What the hon.


Member for North is asking is that no new whatever lmow whether this enact.ment whether it should not come under clause be undertaken.

2 you will limit to 1947 only.

I wonder Mr. HUMPHRYS: I would like to­ without consulting· by amendment and we cannot undertake The COLONIAL TREASURER : The is the final judge.

It has to con- Council .

trol expenditu!·e unless it is approved.

The expenditure North has hon.


Member for Georgetown asked that no new expenditure be under­ taken, but we have to put certain before this Council tions of the Economic things which we consider before the Council.

sort of reformed This will in fact be a Income Tax.

He did say should come and other Adviser things such as recommenda­ The CHAIRMAN : I think clause 4 is: probably the best place .

Clause passed.

Clause 3 -Amendment of section ( 1)of the Principal Ordinance, No.

29 of 1941, No.
29 of 1941, No.

9 of 1944, No.

40 of 1944, No.

10 of 1946.

34 Mr. PERCY C. WIGHT: Why should it affect the years 1944 and 1945 ?

The people have distributed their profits for 150!)

Income Tax LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Bill 1510 (.:imdt.)

those years.

I think the years should be deleted.

and l!l44 ?

I cannot appreciate Why should we go back to 1945 that.

The COLONIAL TREASURER : It Is purely a legal way of doing it.
All it means is that section 34 ( 1) of the Principal Ordinance which says : The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Those what has gone before.

of the amendment is the of the words "forty cents" for years only explain The substance substitution the words "twenty-five three and one-third the years of assessment 1946.

The effect of clause 3 is to increase the rate from 33� per cent.

to 40 per cent.

cents".

Thirty­ cents is in respect of - 1944, 1945 and Mr. SEAFORD : For what year ?
interest under paragraph "Where anyone pays mortgage or de­ to a person not resi­ benture to dent in the colony and is entitled deduct that interest (al of sub-section he shall deduct of this Ordinance, therefrom tax at the rate of eight cents on every dollar of the interest is amended so that the percentage now to be deducted only applicable is 40 instead.

It is .
It is .

ten (1) of section of assessment to the year .. " The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The which is to be moved to clause amendment 4 makes this Bill operative the year of assessment, 1947, only.

in respect of satisfy assessments years 1944 and 1945.

Mr. PERCY C. WIGHT: That does not in my mind that me.

I am satisfied have not been made for the Mr. HUMPHRYS : It does not say so.

The CHAIRMAN : I am not a lawyer l may 34 (1) and the hon.

Member is not a lawyer.


I suggest that we accept the legal interpre tion.

ta­ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: the words are This Council has that in the original section other Income Tax Ordinances explain of the Principal Ordinance "Twenty-five cents".

been passing which were only in respect ·and from time to time that section been a�ended to read instead five cents" "thirty-three cents in respect -1944, 1945 and 1946".
This further amendment is to increase one-third cents" of "twenty­ and one-third of the years of assessment to "forty cents".

"thirty-three of one year, has and .

with The CHAIRMAN: I sympathize Central.

es some­ the hon.

Member for Georgetown The clause should say it substitut thing for something.

Mr. SEAFORD: May we have an as­ surance that the Income Tax Commis­ sioners the learned the hon.

the Attorney­ General?


will put the same construction as The CHAlRMAN : I will give direc­ tions to that effect.

If hon.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Members prefer all those words in braclcets to come out, that can be clone.

They are only put so that Members reading the clause will see what had happened the course of years.
during The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : 1:'he felt that he should show what draughtsman has gone before, not think it is proposed from 25 to 40. so that Members might the rate to increase The CHAIRMAN : My advice is, do not amend this clause.

Leave it as it is.

I will give an assurance Commjssioners it in the same way as the Law Officers.

I will tell them they have to.

will interpret that the Income Tax The CHAIRMAN : If hon.

Members with the assurance of the hon.


are satisfied the Attorney-General will only be effective what we want.

as from 1947, that is that this increase Mr. LEE : The assurance may be heard, but when a charg·e and you go to the Courts, in their own terpreted that by the amendment changed from 25 to 40 per cent.

is put upon you it will be in­ from 1947 it was Mr. C. V, WIGHT: I see a paper is way.

They will say When we get to clause The CHAIRMAN : They cannot go being circulated.
4 of the Bill I will read it.

against the Law Officers.

1511 Income Ta.1; -6 FEBRUARY, 1947: ( Amdt.)

Bill 1512· Mr. C. V. WIGHT : The Law Officers you when you appeal from In­ go against .come Tax.

.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : Clause 4 the amendment, of tbe Bill, even without saiYs specifically It does·not apply to past years of assessment.

"the year of assessment".

cropping up.

I wa,nt to ·co­ to the full with Members of this 1 continually operate I do not want to authorize any Council.
without not ofi the Estimates -� expenditure There is · } of the majority.

the approval the question trip to Ibini of an aeroplane which is yet to be decided.

All these questions must come up.

Mr. HUMPHRYS: I think the brackets in the clause make it quite clear.

Perhaps .the hon.

Member for Gecrgetown Central did not see that.

It is quite all right.

Clause passed.

Cluase 4 - Commencement ance.

Ml·.


de AGUIAR : I beg to move that of Ordin­ at the end of the clause immediately after the word "forty-seven" there be added the words "and shall be and remain opera­ tive in respect assessment year of of the aforesaid only."

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause passed as amended.

Council resumed.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I would like to give notice of Council meeting a third time and passed.
that at a subsequent this Bill will be read The PRESIDENT : It is now nearly 5 until tomorrow and we will adjourn but I would just like to say in a proper democratic Members of way, o'clock at 2 o'clock, one thing.

I am not accepting the state­ ment that this is a black stain on Govern­ ment.

There was no threat.

this Council, had the choice to do what they wish.

n That is the proper way to was a choice.

look at it.

The other thing I want to say is must be that Government's arise every carried on.
Circumstances includ­ day when I have to make decisions ing decisions .

There is, for instance, visit to the United Kingdom as a member of the Caribbean to the forth­ Colonel Spencer coming conference.

to travel and someone has to pay for it.

There is the question of the renewal Officers' agreements.
administration There are questions on expenditure Delegation the question Spencer's of Colonel has of I UTge that Members should equally circ-ulars to individual of a statutory of unforeseen This Finance Finance intervals would answers Committee to co-operate .

Th'is statutory should s1t at regular with but I do want some sent one out and out of 24 Members from twleve f-or approval expenditm·e.
will have the same power as say "We If the majority I would not proceed agree to tbe establishment Finance Committee so that the Executive Government be able to refer to them and not to the whole Council additional Committee the full Council.

do not agree", the expenditure; sort of body to refer to.

I think this method of sending Members is not a good one.

I have re­ cently I have only received of them today.
I will ask those Mem- to the bers who have not sent in answers I may pro-\ Clrek as yet to do so, so that ceed.

I appeal to hon.

Members that, just with them as I am prepared with me.

to the full, they should co-operate Sir Gordon always consulted he never signed a Special your approval.

I will do.

Let us be businesslike; not interfere of Government.

sibly agree, Committee, bers and meeting a month, to whom I can refer these im­ mediate that the administration not held up.
I hope M-embers will agree with the proposals.

entirely opportunity the earliest the Colonial Treasurer in order that it can be put on a statutory basis.

One hon.

Member says the Colonial Treasurer have full opportunity all.

I now adjourn tomorrow.

If they do, at I will ask the hon.

.. to move a motion llf He will • does not co-operate.
with to co-operate to 2 o'clock, As soon as you can pos- let us have a statutory of all Unofficial composed Members; Warrant without in order be Just as Sir Gordon did, with the executive for expenditure of Government at a regular time once the Council requests Finance functions let us Mem- 'i