Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697708173778.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 18 FEBRUARY 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 18th FEBRUARY, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME.........................................................................................................................1-9 QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE...................................................................................................................10-12 STATEMENT 2022 Population and Housing Census...................................................................................................................13-19 Commission of Enquiry to Investigate the Nature and Extent of Corruption, Economic Crime, Mismanagement, Maladministration and Unethical Governance in Public Institutions Motion (Resumed Debate)..............................................................................................................................20-39 Friday 18th February, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 9:00 a.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THEME: REPOSSESSION OF IMMOVABLE PROPERTIES BY FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS SINCE THE ADVENT OF COVID-19 the Minister of Finance and Economic Asked Development to state: (i) the number of persons whose immovable properties have been repossessed by financial institutions due to failure to pay monthly premiums since the advent of COVID-19; (ii) the number of people who have defaulted from paying monthly mortgage premiums to financial institutions since the advent of COVID19 and during the State of Emergency (SoE) period; (iii) the number of those who have defaulted to pay, out of those who have defaulted how many are earmarked for the repossessions; and (iv) if there are any efforts to stern the tide of immovable properties by repossessions of financial institutions given that failure to pay has been occasioned by the economic hardships arising from COVID-19.
MR T. B. LUCAS (BOBONONG): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker and good morning.

Tota kgang e, ke e amang COVID-19.

Ke batlisisa gore ditlamorago tsa COVID-19 ke eng mo tšhabeng ya rona?

Ke a gakologelwa gore mo nakonyaneng e e sa tswang go feta, ke ne ka botsa potso gore batho ba ba sa kgoneng go ntšhafatsa kgotsa ba emisa insurance tsa bone ka mabaka a gore ba ne ba sa tlhole ba kgona go duela ba kae?

Ga supafala gore batho ba le 50, 000 ba ne ba kgaosetsa insurance tsa bone.
Honourable Dithapelo Keorapetse le ene o ne a botsa ka dikgang tsa go gapela batho matlo mabapi le go palelwa ke go duelwa gore ba kae?

Letsatsi leno ke tla ka potso e e tsamaelanang le manokonoko le ditlamorago tsa COVID-19 e nnileng le one mo tšhabeng ya rona.

Sa ntlha, ke botsa Tona gore a go na le bangwe ba e rileng ka nako e ya COVID-19 ba gapelwa matlo kgotsa dithoto tsa bone di tshwana le lefatshe le dikgwebo ba dirwa ke gore ba ne ba sa kgone go duela?
Ba sa kgone go duela jalo e le mabaka a COVID-19.

A re neele dipalo tsa batho ba ba feletseng ba tseetswe dithoto tsa bone ba fantisitswe ka mafoko mangwe.

Sa bobedi, a re fe lesedi la ba ba ka tswang ba ise ba fantisiwe mme ba gomagomediwa ke go fantisiwa ka ga ba kgone go duela dituelo tsa kgwedi le kgwedi tsa matlo a bone.

Those who defaulted kwa dibankeng go duela ka mabaka a gore dikgwebo tsa bone kgotsa letseno la bone le kgoreleditswe ke COVID-19.
A re neele palo ya batho bao le ba ba sa kgonang go duela mme e le gore selepe sa magagane se lebega se ba emetse kgotsa ba setse ba kwadilwe mo dipampiring gore e tlaare mo nakong e khutshwane fa ba sa duele, ba gapelwe.

A re neele lesedi la gore batho bao ba kae?

Sa bofelo, Tona a re neele maiteko a a dirwang ke dibanka gore batho ba se ka ba latlhegelwa ke ditsabone tse di tshwanang le matlo, masimo le dikago tsa bone tsa dikgwebo.

A mme go na le maiteko a a dirwang go emisa seemo seo?
Ke kopa go itse maiteko a dibanka.

Ke batla go itse gape gore Puso e tsena fa kae mo go direng gore batho ba se ka ba gapelwa?

Re lebile gore batho ba ba sa kgoneng go duela dibanka gompieno, ga ba dire kabomo.

Ga se gore ba dira ka gore ba rate.

Bothata jo botona ke gore segajaja sa COVID-19, se ne se ba apere mo e leng gore ba ne ba sa tlhole ba kgona go duela.

Segajaja sa COVID-19 fa o bona se kgonne go tšhontsha Mebuso, go raya gore mo bathong fela ka bongwe ka bongwe le dikgwebo go nna worse.
Ke sone se e reng re le fano, re bo re batla go itse gore go tsamaya fa kae, a batho ba santse ba thusiwa gore ba somarele ditsabone ka ba ne ba kokonelwa ke COVID-19?

O re fe lesedi leo motho wetsho, re tle re lemoge bothata jo bo dirilweng ke COVID-19 gore bo kana ka eng?

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker and good morning.

Ke a dumedisa Batlotlegi Mapalamente.


Mr Speaker, let me indicate that I have based the information on the following; First, the reference period is confined to the period 1st April, 2020 to 31st October, 2021.

This is because the current official statistics was not designed and collected based on the COVID-19 pandemic.
Second, “financial institutions” are defined as the eight commercial banks 1 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME licensed and supervised by the Bank of Botswana (BoB) and the three statutory banks namely; Botswana Building Society (BBS) Limited, National Development Bank (NDB) and Botswana Savings Bank (BSB).

Third, the available data released to the number of accounts as opposed to the number of persons as requested in some cases one person has multiple mortgage loan accounts.
Mr Speaker, moving onto the specific questions; as at 31st October, 2021 (which is a month after the expiry of the period of State of Public Emergency), let me indicate that the eight commercial banks and three statutory banks had 402, 815 loan accounts with a total value of P75.4 billion.

Of these, 25, 712 were for residential property, that is 6.4 per cent at a value of P14.2 billion or 18.9 per cent of the total loans and advances.
Mr Speaker, notwithstanding this painful reality, the adverse impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the economy and individuals that undermined the ability of bank customers to repay bank loans, in accordance with agreed repayment programmes, also entailed significant risks for the safety and soundness of banks.

The most important being undermining the safety of customer deposits through failure to repay loans, notwithstanding the reasons for the default.
Mr Speaker, as the Honourable Members of this House are aware, in this regard, banks use short-term customer deposits (public funds) to lend; and, in turn, loan repayments in accordance with agreed terms ensure the availability of funds to meet deposit withdrawals, as demanded by customers from time to time.
(i) Mr Speaker, from the 1st of April, 2020 to 31st October, 2021, a total of 184 or 1.9 per cent of the defaulting residential property loans, valued at P136.4 million, had the collateral called upon, (that is the collateralised property was repossessed) while 97 properties or 1.0 per cent, valued at P79.1 million were foreclosed.

Foreclosure means that the properties were sold to recover the loan amount owed to the financial institutions.
(ii) During the same period Mr Speaker, a total of 42, 860 loan accounts were in arrears, which means that they had defaulted on their repayment obligations, out of which 9, 477 were residential property loan accounts, with a value of P437.1 million.

(iii) Mr Speaker, out of the P42, 860 loan accounts which defaulted to pay, 22.1 per cent as I have already indicated were residential.

A total of 184 had the collateral called upon, while 97 were foreclosed.
This means that 87 properties or 0.9 per cent are still earmarked for repossession.

Mr Speaker, it is acknowledged that repossession of residential property, especially owner-occupied residential mortgages, represents a painful experience and loss of welfare for the affected individuals or households.
This is particularly so during a period of limited or reduced income earning opportunities, such as is the case with the advent of the COVID-19 pandemic, economic depression or other natural or social disasters.

Mr Speaker, on the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, banks, with the regulatory support and encouragement by the Bank of Botswana, afforded customers an opportunity to make rearrangements or restructuring of loan facilities, including a three to six months repayment moratorium.
The broader objective was not only to assist the borrower, but also to safeguard the repayment programme and loan servicing capability therefore, protection of depositors’ funds).

(and, Furthermore, this approach recognises the undesirable aspects of repossessions and foreclosures that include not only the involuntary transfer of assets, but costs to the banks and sometimes lower realisable values from property sales.
Mr Speaker, it is also important to note that, due to the prolonged nature of the litigation process involved in loan recovery at banks, some of the properties repossessed or sold during the reference period, were for loan defaults and repossessions that commenced prior to the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Therefore, the statistics I have just provided on repossessions and foreclosures, cannot be entirely attributed exclusively to the adverse effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on loan performance.
is that, given Mr Speaker, my assessment the restructuring arrangements undertaken by financial institutions and policy measures that were instituted, the scale of residential property loan defaults was not unusual compared to the normal trend; loan delinquency rates remain around pre-COVID-19 pandemic levels (that is just below 5 percent).
Therefore, Mr Speaker, the current macroeconomic policies and prudential measures adopted by the Bank of Botswana, as well 2 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME as credit underwriting standards by banks are deemed adequate and appropriate to underpin the generation of economic opportunities and a sound banking system to safeguard public deposits.

Mr Speaker, I indicated that my response relates to those that are supervised by the Bank of Botswana.
I also need to indicate that Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) also provides loans but it is not considered strictly a financial institution (3) Mr Speaker, with regard to CEDA, I wish to state the following: (i) 70 projects were advertised for sale in execution in the 2020/2021 and 2021/2022 financial years but all these projects had judgement obtained prior to the outbreak of COVID-19; (ii) During both financial years, a total of 11 506 businesses defaulted from monthly payments of their mortgage premiums; and (iii) A total of 188 businesses were earmarked for repossession but this happened prior to the outbreak of COVID-19 and continued to be non- performing since then.
(iv) The Agency finally introduced the following interventions to assist businesses in mitigating the effects of COVID-19: (a) Moratoriums on repayments (b) Restructuring businesses and rehabilitation of ailing (c) Provision of free business advisory services (d) Capitalisation of defaulting accounts (e) Moratorium on foreclosures (f) Capital injection through products such as Letlhabile, COVID-19 Relief Fund, Industry Support Facility and other CEDA products.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


MR LUCAS: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke a go utlwa Tona, o lekile tota go nneela karabo.

Kwa tshimologong fela Tona, a go na le thulaganyo epe e le e dirang gongwe le le Ministry of Finance go leka go batlisisa manokonoko a COVID-19 mo dikgwebong tsa batho, mo matshelong a batho or livelihoods gore re tle re kgone go nna le a clear picture kana seemo fela se re ka se tlhaloganyang se se bophara sa go itse gore COVID-19 e amile jang itsholelo ya batho, dikgwebo le matshelo?
Ke buisiwa seo ke gore ka nako ya HIV/ AIDS e santse e le at its peak, go ne go na le studies tse di neng tsa dirwa maikaelelo a tsone ke go batlisisa tota the impact of HIV/AIDS mo matshelong a batho ka kakaretso.

A re na le thulaganyo eo Tona ya gore re dire dipatlisiso tsa mofuta one o gore di tle di kgone go re thusa going forward?

E le ya ntlha.

Ya bobedi, my attention was caught by the number of loan accounts that are in arrears tse o neng o supa gore o kare di ka tshwara bone bo 42 000.
Ke re kana mme loan accounts tse e ka nna ya re mo nakong e khutshwane batho ba teng ba felela e le gore jaanong ke ba ba salwang morago ka mabaka a gore ga ba kgone go duela mme e bo e le gore kwa bofelong ba ka nna ba felela ba gapetswe.
Kwa ntle ga loan rearrangements tse o neng o di bua o re dibanka ba ne ba di dira tsa bo three to six months, a go na le sepe gape se e leng gore gongwe le rotloetsa dibanka go se dira gore batho ba kgone go somarela tse e leng matlo a bone le properties tsa bone le le Puso?
Sa boraro ke gore mme le le Puso, jaanong lona kwa ntle ga rearrangements tsa dibanka, a go na le thulaganyo ya Puso tota e e tsenelelang sentlesentle to save matlo a batho gore a se ka a gapiwa (repossessed) ka gore tlhaloganya gore bothata re ne re na le jone bo re apere rotlhe le Puso e a itse, e bile e le Puso e amegile le mo mafelong a mangwe jaaka gone fa ke le mo Bobonong jaana khansele gatwe ga e na le fa e le šheleng wa go tshela peterolo?

Seemo se le se lebile ka tsela e e ntseng jang le le Puso?
A ga se gore le dire some extraordinary efforts to save people’s houses and properties gongwe in the next one or two years?

Ke a leboga Tona, ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Honourable Lucas.

Mo go ya ntlha ke re ka se sebaka ga gona study se re se dirang mme gongwe re ka e tsaya e le kgakololo go ya kwa pele.
Ke tlhalose gore outside the Ministry of Finance, ke gakologelwa gore ba United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) le bone go ne go na le sengwe study se ba se dirang.

Go na le tse dingwe tse re tsamayang re a ne re di dira gale fela tsa malatsi otlhe tsa bo business confidence le tse dingwe.
Ke tlhalose fela gore mme gone re tswelela re ntse re buisana re tsentse seemo leitlho ka gore dikgang tse di nna di tla kwa go rona kgapetsakgapetsa Honourable Lucas tsa batho ba tla go ikuela kwa go rona, re buisana 3 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME le dibanka le Bank of Botswana ka gore mo gongwe go a tle go nne le mo batho ba ipelaetsang gore mme le tsone jaanong o kare ka fa di gapang ka teng, gongwe ba ka tswa ba dira dingwe tse di ka fa tshokamong.
Re bo re buisane le ene le the banking adjudicator as well go bona gore ga go robiwe melao le gore jaanong ga re beye Batswana ka fa mosing fa go ne go sa nna sentle.
At this point in time, ga gona study se re se dirang re le Ministry of Finance but I take your advice gore mme re sekaseke gore go tswa fa go ya kwa pele re dirisana le ba bangwe, it might not be Ministry of Finance re itirela but re na le bo Botswana Institute for Development Policy Analysis (BIDPA), Bank of Botswana le ba bangwe gore re bone go ka dirwa jang, which is comprehensive.
E bile go ka re thusa gore study se re se dirang se tsenye dingwaga tse tsotlhe ka bobedi mme se se ka sa tsenya ngwaga o le mongwe fela to cover period yotlhle e re neng re na le COVID-19.

Ya bobedi ya loan arrears, nnyaa Mr Speaker, ga gona any extraordinary fa e le gore ke tlhaloganya Honourable Lucas, any extraordinary initiative that is in place kwa ntle ga tse ke setseng ke di buile gore kana re sekaseka seemo.
Bank of Botswana e tsentse leitlho le rona re le ministry re le mo teng le bo banking adjudicator go bona gore dilo ga di tswe mo taolong.

Fa re leng teng, ke gone gore re ntse re buisana le dibanka gore a ba ka buisana le bone ba ba kolotiwang go bona gore a go na le sengwe se ba ka thusiwang ka sone.
Mr Speaker, ke batla go dira ntlha nngwe ke e, dipalo tsotlhe tse ke neng ke di supa tse, le dipuisanyo tse dintsi tse re di tsayang, di supa gore bontsi jwa batho ba ba neng ba gapelwa ba ke ba ba neng ba ntse ba le mo melatong before go nna le COVID-19.

Bontsi jwa bone ke ba ba ntseng jalo.

Jaanong go bo go dira gore dikgang tse di ketefale, le bo le re tota mme ba paletswe ke go duela ka mabaka a COVID-19.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Kana Honourable Minister, re a itse ka nako e e fetileng gore kwa America dikgang tse tsa dikoloto tsa matlo le properties di ne tsa felela di kgautlhantse itsholelo, tsa ba tsa ama lefatshe lotlhe.

Ke batla go itse gore mme gone fa o kala bokete jwa kgang e o bona e amile itsholelo ya rona ka bokete jo bo kanankang?
A ga se gore re tsamaela go tloga kwa bofelong di bo dibanka di ka phutlhama, go bo go raya gore Goromente o a go felela a ntsha madi a a seng kanaka sepe go di emeletsa jaaka go ne ga diragala kwa America?
Number two; o buile puo e Batswana ba ledileng ka yone thata ya gore, o kare go na le a pollution, o kare go na le bonweenwee jo bo diragalang fa gare ga dibanka, kana le bangwe ba melao, kana diagente, mo e e tlaa reng motho a duetse mortgage wa gagwe, e bile a tsamaela go o fetsa, fa a ka dira phoso a relela, go raya gore jaanong property ya gagwe e a tsewa, e a rekisiwa ka tlhwatlhwa e e kwa tlase, ba tsaya madi a bone, o felela a ntse a kolota.

Mme o kare o amogela gore kgang eo le a e lemoga.


Ke botsa gore, a le setse le na le cases tse di setseng di lebisitswe bangwe ba ba dirang bonweenwee jo, le gore mme ba ba amegang, batswasetlhabelo ba thusiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Mo go ya ntlha, kana jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa gore dipalo tsa ba ba saletseng kwa morago ka go duela ga di supe di feta tse di tlwaelesegileng, jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa gore di tsamaya gone fela fa go around 5 per cent, which is the normal default e re nnang le yone on the economy.

Ka seemo seo ga ke ka ke ka re go lebega re le mo seemong se se maswe go na le nako epe fela.
Gape ka ba ka tlhalosa gore, kana re sekaseka seemo, re tsamaya re ntse re lebeletse le rona re tsentse leitlho, Bank of Botswana is supervising and monitoring everything that is happening, go bona gore fa re ka bona go na le sengwe se o kareng se tswa mo taolong, ka gore se sengwe se re tshwanetseng gore re se babalele, kwa ntle ga gore ga re batle gore batho ba gapelwe matlo le jalo le jalo, re tshwanetse re babalele le dibanka.
Kana dibanka gore di ye go adima madi le tsone di a bo di kile tsa tsaya madi a bangwe, deposit taking gore ba di dirise go adimisa madi.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, fa re leng teng ga go na sepe se se supang gore dibanka tsa rona di mo seemong se go belaetsang gore go ka tloga ga ya kwa tlase, ka gore dipalo di santse di supa fela re le mo default e re e tlwaetseng.
Sa bobedi, batho ba a tle ba tle kwa go rona go le gantsi, ba tla go ngongorega ba re, ba a ipelaetsa gore a tota ke eng e kare go tswa go gapiwa ntlo ya ga Motlotlegi Peggy Serame e bo e neelwa Honourable Balopi, ka gore Honourable Balopi ke tsala ya ga Selemenyane, ke e fa e le sekai, ke bona a tsholeditse.

Mr Speaker, dikgang tse tsotlhe, tse di a tleng di tle kwa go rona, e a tle e re fa re di tlhotlhomisa re seke re fitlhele boammaaruri joo.
Ka gore kana go ipelaetsa le bosupi bo bonala gore, nnyaa ke boammaaruri motho yo o ne a duela sentle, e bile o ne a sa sala ka sepe, ke dikgang tse pedi tse di bapileng.

Dingongorego di a tle di nne teng, mme so far ga go na ope yo o kileng a tla kwa go rona ya re fa re tlhotlhomisa ra fitlhela e le boammaaruri.
Ke a go solofetsa Honourable Dr Gobotswang gore fa go 4 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME ka diragala gore re nne le case e e ntseng jalo, go na le bosupi, e bile re kgona go bona gore ke boammaaruri, go na le dikgato fela tse di maleba tse motho a tshwanetseng gore a di tseelwe, tse Bank of Botswana le dibanka ba di itseng, di teng gale.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR BALOPI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga Tona.
Ke dumedise Mapalamente, e bile ke lebogele potso ya ga Motlotlegi Rre Lucas.

Ke tsaya gore ke potso e e maleba e e tshwanetseng gore gongwe Tona jaaka a ntse a re fa dintlha tsa gore bothata ke eng, re leke go atolosa kgang e ka gore, khumo ya motho ke seriti sa gagwe, mme seriti sa motho ke bonno.

E bile ke go nna le selo se e leng gore go ya kwa pele o ka se dirisa e le go itshetlela le mo dikokomaneng tsa gagwe tse di tlang.
Mme having said that, ke a itse gore go ne go botswa go remeletswe mo COVID, le Minister o ntshitse dintlha tsa gore pele ga COVID go ne go ntse go na le batho ba ba nnang e kete ga ba duele dikoloto tsa bone, segolobogolo tsa matlo.

Kana fa o ka lemoga Tona, o tlaa lemoga gore fa o batla go tsaya sekoloto sa ntlo, le sa koloi, mo go motlhofo go le gantsi ke go tsaya sekoloto sa koloi.
Mme, fa o tsere sa ntlo o kgona go duela madi a ampore a lekana le a koloi, mme o a duela dingwaga di ka nna masome a mabedi le botlhano jalo- jalo go tswa fela gore dingwaga tsa gago di kanaka eng.

Fa o setse o nnile le mathata a go latlhegelwa ke letseno, gongwe o setse o duetse sephatlo kana 50 per cent of that, o fitlhela e le gore fa o bona madi a teng ka fa a ntseng ka teng, o setse o feditse go duela value ya ntlo fa o e neelwa ke ba ba kanokang boleng jwa matlo.
Go bo go raya gore fa e le gore go ntse jalo, re tshwanetse gore… ke a itse gore o ne o bua gore Bank of Botswana Tona ke yone that supervises these commercial banks, why not restructure loans go lebilwe le interest e e kanakana, e e tlaabong e tsene ya nako eo?

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable Balopi, what is the supplementary?

MR BALOPI: Sorry Mr Speaker, ke gore fela ke kgang e tona thata.
Jaanong potso ya me ke gore, ke eng le sa sekeseke gore interests tsa loans tsa matlo e nne interests tse di elang tlhoko fa motho a nna le mathata gore o ka thusiwa jang ka tsone?

Ya bobedi ke ya gore, Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA) yone ke eng Batswana ba kgona gore ba latlhegelwe ke dikgwebo, mme e le banka ya Puso e sa tsenelele mo go reng e ba rutuntshe, e bile e ba tshware ka lebogo go fitlhelela e nna batho ba ba ka dirang kgwebo, e sa ba tswalele jaaka re bona go diragala?
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, o tlaa intshwarela, ke ne ke tsewa ke mowa wa kgwebo.

MS SERAME: Thank you Honourable Balopi.

Ya ntlha Mr Speaker, kana kgang ya interest rates ke e ba the financial sector, ba na le Bank of Botswana, ke e nnang e lebelelwa malatsi otlhe gore, a mme interest rates tsa rona, a dibanka ga di…ke e beye fela ka Serolong ke re, ga ba je Batswana ntsoma.
Ke dingwe dikgang tse di nnang di lebelelwa ka malatsi otlhe, ke a itse kgapetsakgapetsa batho ba a tle ba re a re tle re buisane gore interests that are charged by dibanka di ka tswa di le kwa godimo.

Ke kgang e e tswelelang e ntse e lebelelwa.

E o e botsang eo ya gore, a e ka re motho fa a setse a kolota ga se ka ga lebelelwa, ke dumela gore is a more operational issue ya gore, when someone defaults how then do they assist that person.

Ke a e utlwa, ke tsaya gore le bone ke kgang e e dirwang gale.
Ya CEDA Mr Speaker, ke tlhalose gore CEDA e thusa Batswana ke boammaaruri, mme e bile ga e tshwane le commercial banks, ke boammaaruri Honourable Balopi.

Mme kana fa o ka ela tlhoko fa re ka ya go go tseela statistics, o a go fitlhela e le gore CEDA fa e setse e ya go gapela motho o kgona go fitlhela mo gongwe a na le five years a ise a ko a duele le fa e le 1 thebe, ga kere P1 ka re 1 thebe, mme a sale a tsaya madi.

I can get that statistics for you, ga ke a di tsaya gompieno.
Gape Mr Speaker, se ba se dira ka go tlhalosa gore, kana bone ba diretswe gore ba thuse Batswana go tsena mo dikgwebong, mme e bile le interest rates tsa teng di kwa tlase, ga di tshwane le tsa commercial banks.

What is also important ke gore, CEDA e rile fa e tlhamiwa go tilwe e tshwanetse gore e adimise Batswana, mme ba bangwe ba duele gore re kgone go adimisa ba bangwe.

Ke gore adima Motlotlegi Peggy Serame a duele, gore e tle e re kamoso re kgone go adima Honourable Reatile le Honourable Rakgare.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY THEME: OVERVIEW OF THE STATE OF THE FUEL LEVY FUND AND NATIONAL PETROLEUM FUND (NPF) Asked the Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security: (i) to give an overview of the state of the fuel levy fund and NPF; and (ii) rationale behind fuel increments and if there will be anymore increments between now and 2024.
5 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME MR M. REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, potso ya me e ile kwa go ba ditswammung, kwa go Rre Moagi.

Potso ka bokhutshwane e ne e le gore, tota ke batla gore Motlotlegi Tona a re thuse gore mo bothateng jo a bonang bo aparetse Batswana mo go tsa leokwane a letlole la teng le dira sentle, ka gore Puso e ne ya tla ka lenaneo le le neng le tlhapile la gore, re nne le dilo tse go neng gotwe ke slates.
E le gore slate ke go netefatsa gore batho ba ba gwebang ka leokwane mo Botswana ba tlaabo ba na le mabeelo, a e leng gore fa ba beile koo slate se tlaabo se ba tlhokomela.

Jaanong ke sone se gompieno jaana ke neng ke batla go itse gore, letlole le le eme fa kae?

Ka ke itse gore go na le gore gompieno jaana batho ba bo ba tswa kwa borders ba bo ba tlhamalala ba ya go tshela kwa ditankeng tsa bone tsa thekiso ba sa tsene kwa mabeelong, ka gore e bile le mabeelo ga ba na nao.
Jaanong ke batla gore Tona a tle a tlhalose gore kgang e ya slate e bereka go le kae, mme e bile a ba ba duetsweng madi a a slate ba sena mabeelo ba tlaa busa madi a rona leng?

Jaanong tlaa ke se ka ka ya thata le yone Mr Speaker ke letlelele Tona a tle a phuthuloge go tlhatswa karabo e ke e boditseng.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR MOAGI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Let me greet fellow Members as well in this House.


O a bo a tlaa botsa potso e e pharologanyo, ntle ke mo leke.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to update Parliament on the state of the Fuel Levy Fund and National Petroleum Fund (NPF).

(i) Fuel Levy Whilst the Fuel Levy Fund is under my ministry, it is administered by the Ministry of Finance and Economic Development (MFED) through the Botswana Unified Revenue Services (BURS).
The Fuel Levy is essential Value Added Tax (VAT) equivalent taxation of fuel products consumed in Botswana.

Instead of a full 14 per cent VAT equivalent, the Fuel Levy is currently about 8.8 per cent of current pump price, ensuring that fuel prices in Botswana are still affordable and competitive, while Government is able to generate some revenue from fuel consumed in Botswana to continue to foster the much needed economic development.
6 You will note that Botswana currently consumes about P12 billion of fuel every year and I trust the Honourable Member will agree that Government benefits immensely from the Fuel Levy contribution to our fiscus.
In terms of the state of the National Petroleum Fund (NPF); as at 31st January 2022, the balance of the Fund stood at One hundred and Ninety-Eight Million, One Hundred and Forty-Three Thousand, One hundred and Twenty-Three Pula and Thirty Thebe (P198 143 123.30), with liabilities which recalculates to Ninety- Nine Million and Thirty Thousand, Four Hundred and Eight Pula and Seventy-Four Thebe (P99 030 408.74) net to date.
(ii) Management of the National Petroleum Fund The purposes of the Fund as contained in the National Petroleum Fund Order are to:- (a) meet the maintenance and operational costs of the strategic storage facilities for Government fuel; (b) purchase petroleum products for the Government’s strategic oil stocks; (c) stabilise prices charged by the oil industry; and (d) meet insurance premiums in respect of the oil of Government’s strategic insurance installations and oil stocks.
In this regard, the following is the salient points on how the NPF is utilised: (a) meeting the maintenance and operational costs of the strategic storage facilities for Government fuel where currently Government owns two strategic reserve storage facilities in Gaborone and Francistown.

These facilities are maintained by revenues that accrue from the NPF.

(b) Purchase petroleum products for the Government’s strategic oil Stocks.
This is when the fund is used to replenish strategic stocks which would have been used in cases of emergency or product losses.

(c) Stabilise prices charged by the oil industry.

The NPF is also used for fuel price stabilisation arising from the volatility of fuel prices, thereby obviating the need for frequent price adjustments due to price variations.

In instances where the normal route (South Africa, where we get most of our fuel) has delivery problems.
The Government through the Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME NPF subsidises the costs of fuel by bearing the additional costs associated with importing fuel through alternative routes being Namibia and Mozambique.

(d) Meet insurance premiums in respect of the oil insurance of Government’s installations and oil stocks.

The facilities are insured, as well as the products in the tanks against eventualities such as fire.
strategic NPF Levy Collections The remittance of the NPF Levy collections continues to be made by the local oil industry companies importing and supplying petroleum products.

During the third quarter of financial year 2021/2022, the NPF levy collections stood at Three Hundred and Twenty-Four Million, Nine Hundred and Eighty-Four Thousand, Five Hundred and Seventy-Three Pula and Seventy-Five Thebe (P324 984 573.75).
Some of the local companies also made some remittances into the fund during the same financial year in the order of P80 million, in lieu of the cumulative slate price over-recoveries for the period August 2019 to March 2021.

Regrettably, some oil companies do not pay all the levies as expected, hence they offer a lower price.

This omission is a cause for concern and the Government is looking into this to ensure levy collection is efficient and effective to close the loophole.
In this regard, there will be increased vigilance at the borders to ensure that all levies are paid for at the border through BURS.

For this financial year quarter three, the NPF has paid a total of Five Hundred and Eighty-Two Million, Four Hundred and Sixty-Nine Thousand, Nine Hundred Pula and Sixty-Five Thebe P 582 469 900.65 to oil companies in the form of diseconomies and under recoveries.
NPF Investments Portfolio The winding up of long term investments held with First National Bank of Botswana (FNBB) through Kgori Capital management services is ongoing.

Most of the funds have been transferred to a Government account at Bank of Botswana and as and when some deposits are realised in the FNBB account from interests of sale of shares, the monies are immediately transferred to the Bank of Botswana account.
It is anticipated that the winding up exercise will synchronise with the maturity of the last bond on the 19 October 2023.

(ii) My ministry through the Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (BERA) reviews fuel prices on a periodic basis and adjusts pump prices when necessary, to align with international oil prices.

The adjustment can be either downwards or upwards, depending on the movement of international oil prices for the period under review.
The adjustment of local pump prices is a continuous process even beyond 2024 because the prices are determined by market forces, in particular, movement in international oil prices and the extent of price stabilisation is limited by the funds in the NPF.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR REATILE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Tla ke go leboge Tona.

Tla ke lebogele karabo ya gago ka fa o e adileng ka teng.
Ke ne ke batla gore motlotlegi o thuse Batswana ba tle ba go tlhaloganye ka gore wena o na le information e e feletseng mo diatleng tsa gago ka gore madi a a kanang ka P500 million a o sa tswang go duela oil companies, a o bolelela Batswana gore tsotlhe were qualifying?
Kana tse dingwe mo go tsone ke tse e leng gore tota di ne di sa qualify gore o ka bo o di neetse madi ao ka gore ka fa ke itseng ka teng, dilo tsa tse bo slate fa di simolodisiwa, go ne go netefadiwa gore batho ba o tlaabong o ba duela ka P500 million yo o setseng o mo dispensed, ke dikompone tse di nang le storage tanks.
Mo e leng gore e kare kamoso go bo go nna le fall back, e seng jaaka matlhabisaditlhong a re a boneng nako ya COVID-19 e simologa, e le gore jaanong ke gone go simololang go supagala gore madi re ntse re a tshela fa fatshe, batho ba nako le nako re ntse re ba neela matshebetshebe ao a millions, ga gona storage facilities kwa ba nang le tsone teng.
Se sengwe se ke neng ke batla go se tlhaloganya Tona ke gore, a o raya gore mme fa e le gore NPF e teng e bile tota Fund Order e tlhamaletse gore NPF e tlaabo e bereka mo go eng, a mo bogompienong o raya gore ke mo o kabong ditanka tsa Tshele re ise re bo re di age?

O ntse o itse gore maloba re kile ra tsaya over P1 billion re a isa kwa mading a a neng a phakiwa ale gotwe ke a COVID-19, kwa madi a neng a felela teng.
Jaanong ke batla go itse gore sentlentle o ka raya Batswana wa re Tshele e tlaabo e simolola go tshela leng ka gore seporo se sale se fetile, se teng koo se phekile?

Se se tlhokafalang fela ke gore gompieno jaana re ne re solofetse gore Honourable Lefoko o tlaabo o setse o tlhomile ditanka, terena e bo e simolola e pheka, e tshela fuel mo ditankeng, dikompone di bo di simolola di ga petrol gone koo.
Gompieno a o ka raya Batswana wa re 7 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME sentlentle, Tshele e ya go simolola go nna operational leng ka gore ke itse gore o kile wa tla mo Palamenteng o kopa madi a Tshele, re go a neetse mme ga gona activity epe e e diragalang kwa Tshele.

Mathata ke eng motlotlegi?

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke leboge le Tona Reatile ka dipotso tsa gagwe tsa tshele.

O ne a bua ka tuelo mo dikomponeng.


Rra, kana go na le slate se e leng gore jaaka go ntse jaana, go lebelelwa dilo ka bontsinyana mo teng ga slate seo go simolola fela ka duties, levies tse di tshwanang le tsa fuels tsa bo MVA, railage, storage le handling ka ditsela tse di faphegileng tse di ntsinyana tse di ntseng jalo.
Jaanong ga ke ka ke gongwe ga ganetsa gore kwa moragonyana go ka tswa go ne e le gore go duelwa mongwe le mongwe fela go sa tlhomamisiwa sentle gore a mme ba duela sengwe le sengwe se ba tshwanetseng gore ba se duele.

Fela jaaka ke ne ke supa mo karabong, go na le ba re itemogetseng gore jaanong ga ba duele levies tse tsotlhe tse jaaka di tlhomagantswe mo teng ga slate gore o tlaabo o duela se le se.

Jaanong ke sone se re boloditseng letsholo la gore mme golo fa re go baakanye, re go tswale.
E bile re tlaa thusega ka gore kana dilo tse tsa fuel, they are administered through BURS.

Jaanong ke gore re lebelele gotlhe fela mo e leng gore go tlaabo go tlhokega gore go be go setse go le charged.

E bile re tle re itse le gone gore ba bangwe e re fa ba phadisana le bangwe, ba bo ba phadisana unfairly ka gore ba itse gore ga ba duele levies dingwe mme ba sa tewe sepe.
Kana fa go ntse jalo, wena o itse gore ga o duele levy ya gore, go raya gore prices e o tlaa bong o e offer, e ya go nna kwa tlase, e bo e nna e kete jaanong wena o tlaa tsaya ditiro tsotlhe ka gore price ya gago e kwa tlase mme o itse gore ga o duele.

So golo moo rra re go tsentse leitlho gore re tle re kgone gore re baakanye dilo tse tsotlhe tse ka gore collection e yotlhe e tla kwa Motswaneng, e mo thusa gore re bo re kgona gore jaanong dilo tse tsotlhe re di dire re somarela Motswana.
Re lemoga thata gape gore kana jaaka re na le storages jaana administered by Botswana Oil, jaanong le tsone dikompone tse di ipoleletse gore di tlaa siela fela koo, ga di nne le tsone.

Fa di tswa fela kwa di ya go tshela kwa filling stations, di boela koo.

Ssentlentle ke gore, ba tshwanetse gore ba bo ba na le percentage e e rileng, I think ke 4 per cent gompieno ya mafura a ba a bayang ka kwano gore ba bo ba a tsotlhe mo lefasheng mo e le yone storage seo.
Jaanong dilo tseo rra re di lebile, ke sone se ke neng ke bua ka go tswala yone phatlha eo e e ka kokonelang le itsholelo ka tsela ee ntseng jalo.

Tshele rra ga go bolo go buiwa ka yone.

Jaaka le ne le ntsha madi, le ne le a ntsha gore re bone moitsanaape yo o ka re thusang gore jaanong fa re setse re aga ditanka tse, re ya go ba duela jang ka gore re tlaa batla motho yo e leng gore o tla ka thoto ya gagwe ya madi, a aga ditanka tseo, a bo a tsenya le one mafura a re a batlang mo teng ga ditanka tseo.
Sa rona fela ke mo e leng gore re tlaabo re mo duelela gore o re diretse tiro e yotlhe.

Jaanong re ne re batla Transactional Advisor gore e re thuse gore re tlaabo re duela ka tsela e e ntseng jang fa re dira jang.

Tiro e e wetse rra, e bile ba Botswana Oil ba setse ba ntshitse yone ikopelo eo, kana ba tloga ba e ntsha ka gore ke setse ke bone dintlha tsa yone gore e ye kwa bathong jaanong, re tle re age Tshele; Tshele go tewa kwa re tlaa bong re beile one maokwane ao teng.
Ke tiro e e setseng e bodule rra, e tsere lebaka, mme e ne e tshwanetse gore e dirwe sentle.

Jaanong e a butswa, o tlaa bona, le wena o ka nna wa ikopela gore o ye go re agela Tshele Fuel Storage.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MAJAGA: Thank you Mr Speaker and good morning Honourable Members.

Re a go utlwa Tona ka karabo ya gago, mme gongwe ke ka botsa fela gore this NPF, is it managed sentle gompieno?
O le Tona, o ka kgotsofala ka the way it is managed gompieno ka re itse gore e kile ya nna mathata mo dinakong tse di fetileng.

E nngwe ke gone gore, kana this fund ke yone that cushions go oketsega le go fokotsega ga ditlhwatlhwa.
If there is a global issue ya gongwe petrols di wa kana di reng kwa mafatsheng a e leng gore they produce oil like the Middle East, a re kgona to cushion seemo sa mafura re dirisa the fund, kana that one is beyond the fund’s control fa e le gore petrol e a bo e oketsegile thata kwa mafatsheng a e leng gore e tswa teng?

Ya bofelo ke gore, Honourable Reatile o ne a bua ka Tshele Project, mme kana go na le Gantsi Project, if I am not mistaken, e le yone go ne go solofetswa gore e tlaabo e dirwa.
After seemo se se kileng sa diragalela lefatshe le sa go tlhaela ga mahura, re ne ra nna mo tsietsing.

A o a solofetsa as a ministry gore le ya go e dira ka bonako ya Ghanzi?

Ya Francistown matlole a teng ga se gore a a bereka otlhe 100 per cent.

A go setse go baakantswe kana go santse go ntse go ntse fela jalo jaaka re kile ra bona some of the cans di sa dire, e bile di na le lebaka di sa dire, mme petrol e na le bothata ka nako yone eo?

Gongwe o ka nthusa ka that information sir.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

8 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, kea leboga Honourable Majaga.

Ka bokhutshwane jo bo teng fela ke gone gore, yes, go a tswelela gore re nne re cushion prices tsa pompo re lebile NPF.
Kana re tshwanetse go dira jalo fa e le gore letlole tota le na le sengwe mo teng, jaaka ke ne ke supa kgantele gore fa re ka nna lebaka re sa tsamae le prices tsa international market, o ya go fitlhela e le gore re ntse re rekisa ka tlhwatlhwa e e kwa tlase, go bo go raya gore letlole le ntse le sa kotlele sepe, le bo le sa kgone go ka thusa Batswana.
Ke sone se e leng gore tota thulaganyo ke gore, fela fa gotwe ditlhwatlhwa di ile kwa tlase kaekae, re bo re itse gore re fetole prices, fa di ile kwa godimo, re itse gore re fetola prices.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, re kgone go fetola gararo kana ga seven mo kgweding kana ga kae.

Re ne re tshwanetse gore re bo re dira jalo fela re tsamaya le yone thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo.

Jaanong mo gongwe o fitlhela re tsala lebakanyana, mo gongwe re na le yone cushion yone ya NPF.
Fa e seo, re tshwanelwa ke gore re fetole fela jalo ka bofefo jo bo tlhokafalang.

Ke raya gore Motswana o tlaabo a re nnyaa di prices fetogile ga seven mo ngwageng, le a re reng, le a re reng.

Tota ga se rona, ke gone gore fa motho a go rekisetsa petrol ka P15 ka kwa re e tsayang teng, wena o bo o re o ka tla go e rekisa ka P10, ga go ka ke ga tsamaelana.

Ke sone se o bonang prices di tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Ya bobedi rra, ke leka go taboga ke lebile nako, projects tsotlhe tse di ne di tshwanelwa ke gore kana di nne le bogakolodi jwa gore mme re di dira jang ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Francistown e tsweletse, ke setse ke kile ka e etela ka bona gore ba tsweletse jang ba baakanya gore storage sa teng se tle se oketse, se re neele storage se se ntsinyana.

So e tsweletse e ntse jalo.


Ya Gantsi re lebile gore gongwe e bile e ka tswelela ya dirwa ke batho ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi, re se ka ra emela gore Goromente a nne le madi.

Re batla gore ba ba ka batlang go ya go e aga, go tlaa tswa ikopelo e e ntseng jalo e bo e neelwa batho, ba bo ba tswelela ba e aga gore re se ka ra tlgoa ra wela mo re kileng ra wela teng.

Ka bokhutshwane, ke ne ke re ke e beye e ntse jalo.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: You are conflicted wena.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Speaker, a ko o nkgalemelele Honourable Tshabang, o tloga a ikotlhaya.

Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you Honourable Minister for the answers.

Honourable Minister, jaaka o ntse o bua gore le batla go bereka le ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi mo thulaganyong tsone tse tsa go aga …(Inaudible)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga a utlwale Mr Speaker, neela yo mongwe.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Healy, what is wrong with your microphone?

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: You cannot hear me?

MR SPEAKER: No, there is an echo, and you get cut.

The Minister will not be able to answer you.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Okay.

Thank you for the opportunity all the same.

You can give the slot to the next speaker if I am totally not audible.

MR LUCAS: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re gongwe Tona a ko a re fetise fa.


Kana NPF e kile ya tlhola e faraferwe ke dikgang tsa gore ga e tsamaisiwe sentle.

Motho o ka botsa gore mme gone go tlhoka go tsamaisiwa sentle mo gongwe a go fitlhetseng, go ka tswa go amile jang maikaelelo a fund a gore e kgone go re thusa go kokobetsa boturu jwa petrol?

A mme go tlhoka go tsamaisiwa sentle, go ka tswa go dirile gore koketsego ya tlhwatlhwa ya petrol e ye kwa godimo phetelela kgotsa a go na le impact gotlhelele?
Gongwe o re e tlhalosetse yone eo.

Ya bobedi e nne gore, mo dikoketsong tse di diragetseng mo ngwageng o o sa tswang go feta, a go na le tse re neng re ka di kganela fa e ne e le gore gongwe re ne re na le madi a a lekaneng, re ise re nne le madubadube a re neng re a utlwalela kwa NPF?

Kana ke itse gore dikoketsego di nnile mmalwanyana mo ngwageng o o fetileng, gongwe a ko a re sedimosetse gone foo.
La bofelo e nne gore, a mme yone NPF jaaka Rre Majaga a ne a boditse, is it audited, e tsamaisiwa sentle mo bogompienong?

A o a kgotsofala rraetsho gore ga e na madubadube le dikgoreletsi tse e neng e kete e amanngwa le tsone mo nakong e e fetileng?

Ke a leboga rraetsho.

MR MOAGI: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Mma ke supe gore tota ya NPF jaaka motlotlegi a ne a botsa ka madubadube a a kileng a nna teng, ga ke na go kgona go tsena mo go yone thata ka gore ga ke a ka ka e sala morago ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ga ke itse gore dikgang tsa teng, di tsamaya fa kae.

Ke supe fela gore tota selo se se kgoreletsang thata gore go bo go ntse go nna le koketsego ya ditlhwatlhwa, 9 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022MINISTERS’ QUESTION TIME ke kwa marekisetsong.
Fa go nna le mo gotweng energy crisis lefatshe ka bophara, kana go nna le hoarding, ba bangwe ba ipeetse ba sa ntshe production e e rileng, go raya gore jaanong mongwe le mongwe o tabogela gore a bone mafura a gagwe ka pela pele ga yo mongwe.

E bo e le gore jaanong golo moo go tsaya price go bo go e tikela kwa godimo.

Ke sone se le rona e reng fa re ya go reka koo, re fitlhela e le gore price e kwa godimo, re bo re tshwanelwa ke to adjust prices.
Fa re ne re na le madi gone mo teng ga letlole le, gantsi re kgona go nna lebakanyana re santse re le mo tlhwatlhweng e kgologolo because re a bo re na le cushion yone ya fund e e ntseng jaana.

Fa cushion eo e seyo, go raya gore kana jaanong e re pateletsa gore re tsamaye fela sentle le prices ka fa di golang ka teng.
Tota keletso e ne e le gore mo tsamaong ya nako, these prices di bo di fetolwa fela at the regulator di sa tseye lebaka le le leele di santse gongwe di ya kae le kae pele, gore di tle di kgone to adjust as the international oil prices adjust.

Fa e le gore di ya kwa tlase, di ye kwa tlase, fa e le gore di ya kwa godimo, di ye kwa godimo ka tsela fela e e ntseng jalo.

Rra, NPF yes, e kile ya babalelwa ya ya kwa tlase thata.
Jaaka ke ne ke balolola dilo tse e di dirang gompieno, kana le fa e le gore go na le under recovery, ke gore pump price e le kwa tlase, o fitlhela e le gore jaanong re kolota tsone dikompone tse di tlang ka mafura a, go bo go raya gore re a di duela.

Re bo re tshwanelwa fela ke gore e bo e ntse e le maintained ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Kwa bofelong, e ne ya re re itemogela dilo tsa NPF le letlole la teng, ra kopa ba madi ka bone ba ka tlhaloganya dilo tse dintsinyana gore e nne bone ba ba lebeletseng dikgang tse di ntseng jalo tsa gore a e tsamaisiwa sentle, ga e reng.

Rona re itse fela gore fa re kopa, re ya kwa go bone, re ba neela dikopo tsotlhe tse di tlhamaletseng ba bo ba golola madi, le bone ba lebile gore a dirisiwa sentle.
Ke tsaya gore re ntse re dirisanya le bone ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ba a golola jalo ba bona gore go tsamaisiwa sentle.

Ya audit ga ke a e tshola rra, ke tlaa botsa gore a go setse go dirilwe audit.

Ke na le tumelo ya gore ka ngwaga le ngwaga dibuka tsa ga Goromente are audited, e tshwanetse e kile ya bona lesedi la go nna jalo.

Ke tsaya gore ke di amile ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister, now we move on to a question without notice.

Honourable Motaosane!


MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motaosane!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mo tlole.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: E bile ga go na urgency mo potsong ya teng.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motaosane!

…Silence… HONOURABLE MEMBER: A se ka a batliwa jaaka kgomo, fa a seyo, ga a yo, re tswelele.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A mongwe a mo e tseele.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!
Order!

Honourable Members, I understand the Minister of Finance and Economic Development has a statement to make… MR MOTAOSANE: Mr Speaker, good morning!

MR SPEAKER: O ntse o le mo go eng?

MR MOTAOSANE: Ke ile kwa go Honourable Leuwe Mr Speaker because ka kwa e a gana, ga ke itse gore go rileng.

E sale maabane fela fa ke bua le wena ka koo ga ke utlwale, nna ke a le utlwa.

Ke tswelele Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Botsa.
QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE INVESTING GOVERNMENT FUNDS WITH PRIVATE BUSINESSES P. MOTAOSANE MR (THAMAGA- KUMAKWANE): asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development if she is aware that several district councils invested Government funds with private businesses including BluThorn and that there have been no returns, and if so to state: (i) whether district councils have authority to invest millions of Pula with private businesses; (ii) how many district councils, and how much money was invested with the above stated Company; (iii) what measures will be taken to ensure that the misappropriated funds are recovered; and (iv) whether any legal steps will be taken against the …Silence… individuals concerned.
10 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke tsenya potso e ke eletsa gore Tona wa Madi a re tlhalosetse gore go ya fela ka tsamaiso ya Puso, a go maleba, go ka fa tsamaisong gore dikhansele di dire kgwebo ya go tsaya madi a ba a neetsweng ke Puso, and invest it elsewhere?

Mo go yone gape, ke eletsa gore Tona a re tlhalosetse gore ke district councils tse kae tse kompone ya BluThorn e tsereng madi mo go tsone?
Totatota fa e le gore golo fa ga go ka fa tsamaisong, Tona o tlaa tsaya dikgato dife go leka go busa madi a kompone e e a tsereng mo dikhanseleng tse?

A o tlaa tsaya dikgato tse di lebaganyeng le ba ba amegang mo dikgannyeng?

Mr Speaker, ke batla go ema fela foo, ke tlaa reetsa pele, ke tla ke tsweledisa kgang ya me sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker procedure, kante go diragala eng fa?

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker.
(i) Mr Speaker, Collective Investment Undertakings (CIUs) in Botswana are administered and managed in terms of the CIU Act, CAP 56:09.

The Act provides for the licensing, on-sight and off-sight monitoring of the CIUs.

BluThorn Fund Managers (PTY) LTD formally called Exponent Asset Management Limited (EAM) was licensed in 2016 under the CIU Act as an investment company with variable capital in line with Regulation 68 of the CIU Regulations to market their business solely for professional investors.
Mr Speaker, in terms of the Local Government Act of 2012, Local Authorities can invest surplus funds with the approval of the Minister responsible for Finance.

However, there is no evidence that such approval was sought and granted by this ministry before BluThorn continued with this one.
(ii) Mr Speaker, nine Local Authorities had invested in the scheme, two were land boards, two district councils, and five were sub-district councils and the total amounted invested in the BluThorn scheme was a P106 million.
This is the breakdown Mr Speaker of the P106 million: Name Letlhakeng Sub District Council South East District Council Southern District Council Tlokweng Land Board Mahalapye Sub District Council Hukuntsi Sub District Council Tlokweng Sub District Council Malete Land Board Ghanzi Disctrict Council Invested Amount (PULA) 15 million 10 million 10 million 10 million 10 million 2 million 5 million 4 million 40 million Total Amount P106 million Mr Speaker, in terms of the Collective Investment Undertakings (CIU) Act, Bluthorn was required to operate a collectivised scheme.
However, during monitoring Bluthorn was found to be operating segregated mandate investments.

In accordance with the CIU licence granted to Bluthorn, Mr Speaker, the company was required to pool the funds of the investors together for their collective investment in securities, property or financial assets, so as to spread the investment risk.
In terms of the prospectus that was issued by Bluthorn, the company was going to offer the investors a capital growth fund which was supposed to be operated as a CIU.

Mr Speaker, essentially Bluthorn was engaged in what appears to be an unlawful banking business, as it was taking deposits and on-lending for a margin.

There was no trace of collectivised units capable of liquid disposal.
To the contrary, each depositor entered into an individual depositing arrangement for term repayment at agreed interest rates, which essentially is a banking practice.

11 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE Mr Speaker, Bluthorn and its controllers had misrepresented in the Prospectus, that investments would provide higher returns at low risk as the loans advanced to SMEs were highly risky in that they were not secured.
Mr Speaker, the Prospectus and the audited financial statements provide crucial information that is relied upon by the investors to conduct their due diligence on whether the product being offered is sound, the company is financially sound, and establish that the risks and the mitigants are adequately disclosed.
Mr Speaker, in addition, the loans were incorrectly reported in the audited financial statements as having no impairment, therefore with no provision having been made in cases of default and no security noted against such loans, which is contrary to international financial reporting standards.
Mr Speaker, through the monitoring process, numerous contraventions of requirements were licensing discovered and consequently the following remedial actions were taken: (i) freezing of bank accounts and business operations through a court order.

(ii) a statutory manager was appointed to manage the affairs of Bluthorn through a court order.

(iii) since the company was found to be insolvent, a Liquidator was appointed through a court order to investigate and trace missing funds, and the process is ongoing.
(iv) the matter was also reported to the law enforcement agencies to undertake criminal and economic crime investigations with the view to trace the missing funds, identify embezzlement and or fraud, if any.

Mr Speaker, the matter is still under investigation at the law enforcement agencies, the outcome of the investigations will determine the course of action to be taken against the individuals concerned.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Minister, ke a go leboga thata gore ditlhaloso tse dingwe tse di bo di dule.

Ke go utlwile sentle fa o bua gore the procedure ke gore fa dikhansele di dira jalo, di a bo di filwe tetla kwa go Tona.

Go lebega in this case, go sa diragala.

Over and above that, go lebega during the audit, go ne go supafala o kare sengwe le sengwe se tsamaya sentle.
Jaanong ke yone potso e ke reng is that good governance, e bile ke utlwe gore dikgato tse di tseetsweng ba ba amegang ke eng, di le administrative?

Ke utlwa gore gompieno go lebega kompone e santse e le insolvent go dirwa eng, go dirwa eng.

Fa o lebelela madi a selekanyo sa P106 million, kana jaanong e boela kwa kgannyeng e e neng re e bua, Dr Matsheka jaaka a ne a bua gore madi mangwe a Puso o fitlhela a sa dirisiwe sentle, about 37 per cent, madi a a tsamaya fela, re sa itse gore a dirilwe jang.
Jaanong dikgang tse di nna di le teng Minister.

Ke batla go itse gore lona le le Ministry of Finance and Economic Development, ke dife dikgato tse le di tseetseng ba ba lebaganeng le dikgang tse?

Ke yone fela kgang e e netlang.

Gape o tlhalose ka Setswana, gore Batswana le bone ba itse gore go diragala eng.

Fa re ntse re re corruption, corruption re raya eng, e bile re e tla re e bona.

Jaanong re tshwanelwa ke gore fa re e bona, re dire gore e tswe ka medi ya yone.
Potso ya me e fela foo Honourable Minister.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Honourable Motaosane.

Mr Speaker, o intshwarele, ke bua ke bopa mafoko thata, ka gore jaaka o ne o utlwa mo tlhalosong ya me, kgang e e fa pele ga makgotla a a maleba go dira ditshekatsheko le ditlhotlhomiso.

Jalo he, ke bua mo gongwe o kare ke bopa mafoko thata.
Le rona re le lephata go na le se re se dirang, go na le fa the Non-Bank Financial Institutions Regulatory Authority (NBFIRA) e tsenang teng, ka gore ke bone ba ba ntshang diteseletso (licensing) tsa ba ba tshwanang le bo Bluthorn.

Le rona as ministry, go na le ditshekatsheko dingwe tse re di dirang, go lebelela Public Finance Management Act le Local Authorities Act.

Ka se sebaka tla ke tlhalose gore, ga gona sepe se ke ka kgonang go papamala mo Palamenteng ke re re setse re se dirile.
Go na le tse di diragalang tse e tlaa reng mo tsamaong ya nako ra di tlhalosa.

Jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa Honourable Motaosane, kompone e e ne e tsere madi mo bathong, e tshwanetse go dira ka tsela nngwe, mme e bo e ya go bapa le se e neng e letleletswe go se dira.

Jaanong while monitoring through NBFIRA, ra ya go bona tse di sokameng.

Ra bo re tsenya mo tirisong to approach the courts gore go dirwe tse ke setseng ke tlhalosa gore di a diragala.
Le ditshekatsheko tsa go bona gore a go ka tswa go diragetse bogodu, a go diragetse eng, di tsweletse Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

12 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE MR KABLAY: Thank Mr Speaker.

Rraetsho mma ke se ka ka tswelela, ka gore Tona ke yo a re kgang e e santse e tlhotlhomisiwa.
Re bue fela gore re le baemedi ba dikgaolo tse di amegang, re reeditse thata kgang e, re leboga thata Rre Motaosane gore a bo a ntshitse kgang e. Tona re e reeditse thata mmaetsho, a e fele re tle re utlwe gore gatweng, re tle re botse gore madi a rona a ditlhabololo a a kanakana, gatwe a ile kae.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, let us move on to the statement by the Honourable Minister of Finance and Economic Development.
STATEMENT 2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Honourable Speaker, I wish to provide a brief statement to this Honourable House on the 2022 Population and Housing Census.

The 2022 Population and Housing Census is scheduled to take place from 18th to 31st March, 2022.

The Census Act of 1904 and the Statistics Act of 2009 provide the legal basis for the conduct of the Population and Housing Census every 10 years.
This is in line with the recommendations of the United Nations Statistical Commission, and has become international best practice.

Botswana has adhered to this practice since 1971, with the last Census conducted in 2011.

However, the 2021 Census was postponed to 2022 due to challenges experienced as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Mr Speaker, in line with our digital transformation agenda, this will be Botswana’s first digital Census.
During the cartographic exercise, which does mapping for the Census, Geographical Positioning System (GPS) coordinates of dwellings were collected instead of placing metal plates on doors within household dwellings; and Computer Assisted Personal Interviews, as opposed to the traditional paper based data collection method, will be employed during enumeration.
Therefore, information technology will be employed for many of the Census activities, and it is expected that results of the Census will be released within a short space of time than was the case before.

The Pilot Census, which was meant to test the questionnaires and the Computer Assisted Personal Interviews Application, as well as other administrative logistics, took place from 22nd to 31st October, 2021.
The Pilot Census has shown all processes to be fit for purpose and can provide quality data in a timely manner.

Mr Speaker, this year’s Population and Housing census theme is: “2022 census.

Palo Batho.

Mpala, Ke Botlhokwa.” Publicity has intensified around the census using various platforms to sensitise all stakeholders to participate accordingly.
It remains the responsibility of every Motswana and all people residing in this country to ensure they are counted; as much as it is our responsibility to encourage our people to be counted.

Mr Speaker, a census provides invaluable information for planning, including demographic and socio-economic data at regular intervals, making it possible to appraise the past, accurately describe the present, and to estimate the future.
The data is provided at small area level, to enable the formulation, monitoring and evaluation of policies, National and District Development Plans and the country’s Vision.

The data is also important for monitoring and reporting on progress in relation to global, continental and regional commitments and frameworks such as the Sustainable Development Goals, (SDGs) Africa Agenda 2063 and to address other administrative processes by stakeholders, including civil society and the private sector.
Mr Speaker, the results from the Population and Housing Census are also a critical input into the Delimitation Commission Exercise, which is a Constitutional requirement.

Section 64 of the Constitution of Botswana implores Government to undertake a delimitation exercise at an interval of no more than 10 years.

The census results are therefore used to determine the need to alter boundaries of constituencies in order to ensure adequate representation.
The 2022 Population and Housing Census is expected to achieve the following specific objectives:- (i) Increase availability and accessibility of accurate, timely and reliable baseline data on demographic and the socio-economic characteristics of population; (ii) Provision of various demographic baseline indicators, the such as current data determination of fertility, mortality and migration levels, patterns and trends, as well as population growth at national and sub-national levels; for 13 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS (iii) Support based evidence of development policies and programs as well tracking and monitoring socio-economic as development; formulation (iv) Provision of data for constituency delimitation processes; (v) Interpretation and dissemination of population census data in a manner that will ensure effective application as well as an understanding of the population in national development evidence-based decision making, formulation of policies, programmes and projects; factors (vi) Further, Mr Speaker, the census results will be used to strengthen national capacities in data collection, processing, analysis, dissemination and utilisation, including Geographic Information System, as well as, census strategic planning and management.
Mr Speaker, sensitisation of different stakeholders, including the public, is ongoing.

This is intended to ensure cooperation from members of households as well as the public at large.

Mr Speaker, a number of activities are ongoing whilst some have already been concluded.

(i) The Cartographic Fieldwork or Mapping Exercise: This was a two-year project which started in October 2018 as a pilot exercise for the technology application employed.
The main exercise started in March 2019 and was concluded in April 2021.

It is important to note that, instead of placing metal plates on doors, coordinates were collected this time for all dwellings and other building structures countrywide.

The mapping exercise is the basis for the census undertaking.

It does not only provide maps and delineation of Enumeration Areas (EAs) but also facilitate estimation of the resources needed for the census undertaking.
tablets, vehicles, COVID-19 Personal Protective Equipment (PPEs), publicity materials, review and finalisation of the electronic system for enumeration and others.

Different training sessions have started since January 25th 2022 and are ongoing as scheduled.

The last training will be that of Enumerators, which will run from 1st to 14th March 2022.

This will lead to the enumeration exercise from 18th to 31st March 2022.
(iv) Mr Speaker, under procurement of tablets, I wish to indicate that procurement of tablets is ongoing.

Four citizen-owned companies have been awarded the tenders to supply 8,500 tablets that will be used for the census.

(v) For transport Mr Speaker, we are securing transport at district level.

Districts, through the District Commissioners Office, are expected to secure 1,760 vehicles from different Government departments and councils.
These are to be used by Districts Census Officers (DCOs), Census Information Technology (IT) Officers (CITOs), supervisors and enumerators.

These will be supplemented by Statistics Botswana fleet and by normal local service providers.

Mr Speaker, the census will create job opportunities, albeit on temporary basis.

At district level, supervisors and enumerators are Degree and Diploma holders, respectively.

There would be 1, 505 supervisors and 6, 774 enumerators needed for the exercise countrywide.
Honourable Members of Parliament are a key stakeholder in this national exercise.

As civic leaders, Honourable Members interact with the community through various platforms including Kgotla meetings and should therefore be at the forefront of sensitising and mobilising community participation in the census operations, so that at the end, everyone gets counted.

(ii) Undertaking the Pilot Census: As I indicated already Mr Speaker, the Pilot Census was conducted in October 2021.
Findings from the Pilot Exercise were used to fine tune the questionnaire and related digital systems, processes, procedures and resources to be employed in the main census.

While my ministry has the lead responsibility for the conduct of the census, Ministries of: Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration; Local Government and Rural Development; Transport and Communications and that of Basic Education are key to this national undertaking.
(iii) Assembling personnel and putting in place all the necessary material, equipment and transport for the implementation of the enumeration phase: These include, among others, procurement of 14 I wish to acknowledge the role of the District positioned Commissioners; who themselves to run with this exercise, being in charge of the day-to-day supervision of the exercise, while already have Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS Statistics Botswana provides the technical expertise and coordination.
The Office of District Commissioner is critical to the success of the census as it is responsible for all the logistics, including recruitment and supervision of enumerators.

Mr Speaker, every effort is being made to ensure that the conduct of the census is safe for those conducting the count, as well as those being counted at home.

In this regard, it is important that members of the public should know how to identify the census personnel.
The census personnel will be identified through the following: • Attire and protective clothing carrying the census logo; • Official letters of appointment on Government of Botswana letterhead; • National Identity Cards (Omang) with names corresponding to those on their letter of appointment; and • The vehicles also carrying the census logo.

Lastly, the COVID-19 virus is still with us.


For this reason, every effort will be made to ensure that COVID-19 protocols are complied with throughout the training and visits to households for data collection.

Therefore, there should be no increased risks to the census personnel and members of the public as a result of the conduct of the census.
I, therefore, call upon Honourable Members to always share the census message in the various platforms that they interact with their communities, to ensure that this national undertaking is successful.

Mr Speaker, the preliminary Results of census are expected in May 2022.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Honourable Members, you are allowed short questions for elucidation.

Honourable Motsamai.

MR MOTSAMAI: Tanki Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke re re a go utlwa Tona mme e bile maikaelelo ke gore re go eme nokeng mo palong batho, mme kana nna... HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... MR MOTSAMAI: Sorry?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ke ne ke re reba lentswe.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke robe lentswe?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Reba.

MR MOTSAMAI: Nna ga ke utlwe, a ko o rebe fela koo o ntlogele ke bue.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng gone moo?

Go reba ke go dira eng?


MR MOTSAMAI: Mma ke re a wa re ke tswelele ke ye go rotloetsa batho gore palo batho fa e sena go dirwa ba Delimitation Committee ba tlaa ya go dira tiro e e tsamaelanang the outcome ya palo batho?

Ke bua jaana ke botsa ka gore go na le dikgaolo dingwe tsame tse di kgaogantsweng, batho ba tsaya services about 80 kilometres range.

Mokhanselara a le 80 km, batho ba mo latela koo, ba boa gape ba ya go boa, mme golo mo go sa dirwe ke gore palo ya kgaolo e nngwe e kwa tlase.
Go dirwa fela ka mabaka a gore go lebeletswe interests tsa sepolotiki.

A census e e tlang e, le gone go kgaoganngwa ga dikgaolo, e tlile go tsamaelana le seemo se re tswang mo go sone kana nnyaa?

Ya bofelo, go na le dikgaolo tsa morafe wa Basarwa, o e leng gore e rile fa re ba baya mo dikgaolong, re ne re re, re ya go ba fa ditlamelo ka botlalo.

O fitlhela e le gore bontsi jwa dikgaolo tsa me, East and West Hanahai, Bere, Kacgae, boketekete, New Xanagas, Karakubis, di kopakopantswe; ga di a ikemela.
A maduo a census mmaetsho, a tlaa dira gore dikgaolo tse fa di akanyediwa, go dirwe se se tsamaelanang le se se mo ground kana le a go boa gape re otlhaiwa (punished) fela?

Rona re ba re balwang ka go itirelwa.

Ya bofelo, go na le batho ba kgaolo ya Ranyane ba ba santseng ba le mo tshekong le Goromente, a mme wa re ke ye go ba raya ke re ba tswelele ba balwe mme ba sa neelwe ditlamelo ke Goromente?

Le batlela eng go ba bala mme le sa batle go ba kenta, go ba fa Namola Leuba le dithuso tse dingwe?
Ke ye go ba raya ke reng?

Ke batla go itse.

Tanki.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Honourable Motsamai.

Ee rra, Motlotlegi Motsamai, ke a go rotloetsa thata gore o tsamae o ye go raya batho ba kgaolo ya gago botlhe fela o re ba balwe.

Jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa mo pegong le fa ke ne ke bua ka Sekgoa, palo e ya batho e re thusa gore go a bo go fetile dingwaga tse 10 and in this case, more than 10 batho ba sale ba badilwe.
Fa e sale nako ya palo ya batho ya bofelo ka 2011, go fetogile di le dintsi, metse e mengwe e godile le metse- setoropo e mengwe e godile, dipalo ga di sa tlhole di ntse 15 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS jaaka di ne di ntse.
Palobatho e, e ya go re thusa gore re le Puso, fa re setse re tla ka ditlhabololo le dithulaganyo jaaka re tsena mo go National Development Plan (NDP) 12, e bo re na le dipalo tse di sha tse di supang boammaaaruri jwa gore batho ba le kae ba kae, gore re ise ditlamelo kwa batho ba leng teng.

Ke tsaya gore ya bobedi e ne e tsamaelana le e o neng o e bua Honourable Motsamai.

Ke tse di neng di tsamaelana gore a mme batho ba balwe, ka re ee, ba balwe.
Ditlamelo di a go thusiwa ke go itse gore batho ba bantsi kae.

Ya bobedi e tsamaelana le e o neng o botsa ka delimitation; Delimitation Commission le yone go lebelelwa gore batho ba kae kwa kgaolong eo.

Jaanong dipalo tsa batho di fetogile since 2011.

Ke sone se se dirileng gore ba Delimitation Commission ba ye go tsaya maduo a a palobatho go bona gore dipalo di fetogile jang, kgaolo efe e godile go gaisa e nngwe.

Ke sone se se tshwanetseng se diragale.


Tota jaanong Mr Speaker, fa a tshikhinya tlhogo, ga go na gore ke ka mo thusa jang.

Ya bofelo, ke batla ke tlhalose sengwe, go na le policies tse di leng teng gale mo ga Goromente tse di dirisiwang.

Di ikaegile thata ka gore batho ba bokete ba kae.

Ke tsone tse Goromente a di dirisang go bona gore a o isa primary school koo, mobile clinic, sepatela kana eng.

Dilo tse tsotlhe di laolwa ke dipalo tsa batho.


There are different policies in Government for different services which are offered.

Mme tsotlhe Mr Speaker, are informed ke gore batho ba bantsi kwa kae, ditlamelo di ka isiwa koo jang le bophara jwa go tsamaisa ditlamelo tseo tsotlhe.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR TSHERE: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente mo mosong o. Ke go dumedise.

Ke a leboga Tona.
Ke a leboga Tona.

Ke na le dipotso tse pedi fela; Tona, from the surface, it appears like palobatho e, is rushed ka gore e lebega e filwe nako e khutshwane.

Ke a lemoga gore ka fa o buang ka teng, go lebega le leka gore go dirwe palobatho gore delimitation e tle e dirwe le demarcation le primaries tsa Domkrag ngwaga o o tlang.

Ke a bona gore kakanyo e ya koo.

E lebega o kare it is so rushed.

Palobatho ga e ame ditlhopho fela le go kgaoganya metse, e ama dilo tse dintsi thata.
E tshwanetse e dirwe ka manontlhotlho le matsetseleko gore re nne le statistics se se ka re fang boleng.

Le fa o ntse o re ke electronically mme go lebega e le gore you are rushing it under pressure ya gore primaries tsa Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) di etla.

Sa bobedi, kwa Mahalapye ba mpolelela gore gatwe le hira ba Diploma le ba Degree fela mo palobathong e. Ga ke itse gore go raya eng Tona ka gore go na le bana ba ba feditseng Form 5?
Le fa o re go dirisiwa maranyane, ba na le the phones fela botlhe ba itse maranyane.

Re ka tobetsa ra bo ra go fa data e e botlhokwa.

Jaanong ke ipotsa gore ke eng o baya seelo kwa godimo gore o batla batho ba Diploma le Degree gore ba tle go tsaya karolo ya go bala batho?

A ko o tlhalosetse Motswana kwa Mahalapye kgang eo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Honourable Tshere, gakere ga o batle re bua ka BDP mo Palamenteng.

BDP ga e tlhoke census go dira primaries.


Mr Speaker, potso ya ntlha ke gore ga go na sepe se se leng rushed.

Fa e le gore motlotlegi o ne a ntheeditse sentle mo pegong ya me le fa ke ne ke bua ka Sekgoa, ke ne ka tlhalosa gore dipaakanyetso tsa go dira census e e tsenang ka March le tse dingwe di sale di dirwa ka 2018 up to 2019.

Ka bo ka tlhalosa gape gore e rile last year ka October, ra dira mo gotweng ke pilot.
Go ne go re supegetsa gore re itse gore matlo a kae, go tsewa jang kae, re a go tlhoka ditsompelo le didirisiwa di le kae le batho ba le kae ba re tlaabong re ba dirisa.

Ga go na sepe se se itlhaganetsweng Honourable Tshere.

Honourable Tshere, gongwe o lebetse gore fa e ne e se ka COVID, census e e ka bo e dirilwe ya bo ya fela last year.

Ga go na sepe se re se itlhaganeditseng or rush to use your own words.
Tse tsotlhe fela di mo thulaganyong, e bile dipaakanyo tsotlhe tse re di dirileng di supa gore re mo tsamaisong.

Ga go na sepe se se re patikang gore re dire se se sa siamang.

Honourable Tshere, o ka bo o lemoga gore maranyane a re thusa go le gontsi to be more efficient in how we do things.

Ka jalo he, ga re bone sepe se se ka tswang se le ka fa mosing jaaka ke tlhalositse le mo pegong ya me gore tsotlhe tse re neng ra di dira le ka October, go ne ga supa gore dilo di mo maemong.
Ya bobedi ya why gotwe Degree le Diploma; ee, enumerators ke ba Diploma, Degrees ke ba supervisors.

Ke seelo se se neng se beilwe Honourable Tshere go lebeletswe gore jaaka o bua, census ga e direlwe delimitation fela, e direlwa dilo tse dintsi jaaka ke ne ke bua mortality rates and so many other things.

Ka jalo, go ne go batliwa ba re dumelang gore ba ka re thusa go dira tiro eo.

Ke utlwa o re kwa Mahalapye le hire; ke ne ke tlhalosa gore go hira diofisi tsa boMolaodi.
The reason go hira diofisi tsa boMolaodi ke gore e re le fa re beile seelo se jaana, ba tsamaya ba sekaseka mabaka a otlhe.

Batho ba ba hirang, mo gongwe go a tle go nne le dikgang tsa gore a go na le dipuo dingwe tse re tlaa di tlhokang; people in the locality ba ba buang the local language.

Ke sone se re neng re baya boMolaodi gore 16 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS ba sekaseke mabaka a otlhe mo khirong e ba e dirang Mr Speaker.
Ke bone ba nnang le the community, e bile ke dumela gore ba dirisana le diofisi tsa Batlotlegi Mapalamente go buisana dikgang tse tsotlhe and even briefing you as accordingly gore le lona le itse gore go diragala eng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Thank you for the brief Honourable Minister.

Honourable Minister, le nna ke mo go ya khiro jaaka ke utlwa o re go hira boMolaodi go raya gore bone ba gaufi, dikgaolo ga di tshwane.
Dikgaolo di tshwana le Gaborone Central, o fitlhela bana ba kgaolo ya rona ka gore go ikopela dipalo tse di kwa godimogodimo, are going to be disadvantaged.

Motho yo o hirwang disadvantages him or her.

Fa o nna mo kgaolong, o bala mo kgaolong, madi a gago a boketenyana gona le gore o simolole letsatsi le letsatsi o palama o tswa kwa o tswang teng o ya tirong jalo le jalo.

Jaanong ke ne ke re was that a consideration in hiring kana le ne le leba banni ba kgaolo to give them preference?
The same question applies to jaaka o bua gore le hira dikoloi, a le a go fa companies which are owned by Batswana preference over multinationals jaaka di le teng tse dingwe tse di tswang kwa Aferika Borwa le High Court kwa.

A le a go simolola ka Batswana le bo le feleletsa ka tsa bone?

Fa go a tlhaela, le ka akanya go tsenya tsa dikompone tse di tswang kwa mafatsheng a sele.

Ke a leboga Honourable Minister.

Tshere, go na le ditlhopho at least, e seng jaaka lona le itlhophela fela.
MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Honourable Healy, ga ke sure gore ke go utlwa sentle, mme kana the number of enumerators di a farologana go ya ka lefelo, ka gore mafelo ga a lekane.

Mafelo a mangwe a bophara thata, therefore a ya go tlhoka batho ba ba fetang ba bangwe.

Ke fa example, the Gaborone district, ka gore di bidiwa jalo, yone e ya go nna le 604 enumerators, compared to Kweneng East e e nang le 955, ka gore go lebelelwa bophara jwa kgaolo.
Ga e ka ke ya re kgaolo e le bophara thata e bo e ya go lekanngwa batho ba ba balang batho ba tshwana le ba bangwe bao.

So go ne go lebelelwa bophara jwa kgaolo le se ba tshwanetseng to cover le matlo ao otlhe, ka jalo go ne go sekwasekwa mabaka a a farologaneng ka gore mafelo ga a tshwane.

Ke tsaya gore ke mo arabile ka ke ne ke se sure gore a ke a mo tlhaloganya Mr Speaker.

Ka jalo ga ke dumele gore go na le ope yo o kareng kwa ga bone batho ba disadvantaged.
E bile gape ke tlhalositse gore, go hira bo Molaodi gone gore e se ka ya re a hirela mo Gaborone a bo a hira motho yo o sa nneng mo Gaborone.

Gone mme ga ke itse gore o a go dira jang, ka gore le bone dikgang tse dingwe tse ba di lebelelang ke gone go sekaseka gore mo go nang le dikgang tsa bo gore re ka lebelela language le dikgang tse dingwe, re bo re itse gore it is somebody from the local area yo o tlhaloganyang the language, culture and everything.
Ke sone se ke bonang gore e maleba fela gore e dirwe ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ya resources ke tlhalositse gore, le tsone tablets tse 8,500 re tlhalositse gore ga di kitla di tsewa ke companies tse di tswang kwa ntle, go lebelelwa dikompone tsa Batswana.

Dikoloi le tsone sa ntlha go a go lebelelwa tsa maphata a Puso.

Maphata otlhe a Puso a kopilwe gore a adime Lephata la Statistics le bo Molaodi dikoloi ka nako ya census.

Fa go tlhaelang teng then go bo go hiriwa tsa ba ba mo gae, pele fela.
Fa di ka tlhaela ke gone go ka tswelwang kwa ntle.

Ke keletso ya rona Honourable Healy, mme ke a bo ke kopa mo Batswaneng le bodiredi jwa rona gore a ko ba dire se re se dumalaneng, le se se se tshwanetseng.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Dipotso tsa me ga di dintsi.


Selo sa ntlha ke ne ke re ke botse kgaitsadiake gore, o dira jang ka kgang ya publicity, ka gore magotswana a a bo a setse a simolotse, they circulate information tsa gore, go batliwa dikoloi tse di tshweu tsa double cab?
Gongwe a leke go tlhalosetsa Batswana ka dikgang tse gore, o tlaa dira jang ka kgang ya go itsise batho kana publicity, ka gore ba bangwe ba a bo ba tlaa kokotela batho ba re re ba ba balang, mme fa kgang e a ka e lebala, go raya gore Batswana ba tlaa nna mo mathateng ka dirukutlhi tse.
Ya bobedi ke ne ke re ke mmotse gore, a mme o itse ka seemo se mo Palapye re nang le mathata le sone, bana ba ne ba hirilwe, fa ba ntse ba le mo training ba setse ba fetsa, ba a kobiwa jaanong gatwe go lebega o kare they do not qualify.

Mme tota ba ntse ba isitse dipampiri tsa bone, ba sekwasekwa, ba amogelwa, ba laletswa training.

Fa ba setse jaanong ba re ba ya go simolola tiro gatwe, lona re a le ntsha, re tsenya ba bangwe.
Ke re, a mme seemo se o a se itse, mme fa e le gore o a se itse o se tsibogela jang?

E nngwe ke yone fela, mme she has already covered it ya delimitation.

Ke mmotse gone ka…tota she has covered it, jaaka Tshere a ne a bua gore, a mme re solofele gore go tlaa nna le delimitation fa e le gore dipalo di tlaa nna sentle?

Ga ke itse gore a Tshere o ne a e botsa jalo kana o ne a lokile letswai thata.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


17 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.
Ya ntlha ya publicity Honourable Ramogapi ke lebogela potso eo thata ka gore, re tsweletse mo maranyaneng le mo diromamoweng, le gotlhe fela mo re kgonang teng go itsise Batswana ka palobatho e. Ke sone se ke neng ka ya go ikokobetsa kwa go Mr Speaker gore ke tle ke e bue le mo Palamenteng gore, Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba re thuse le jaaka le tsamaya le buisana le setšhaba, le nne le lona le ba rotloetse gore ba itse gore go diragala eng.
Se sengwe se se botlhokwa thata Honourable Ramogapi ke se gatelele, ke gone jaaka o bua batho bangwe ba a tle ba tsietse batho.

Ke a kopa ope yo o tsenang a bala batho…ke tlhalosa gore palobatho e ka March, ope yo o tsenang kwa go wena gompieno a go raya a re o tlile go bala, ga a tla go bala, o tlile mo go di sele mafura a terekere.

Gape ke tlhalositse gore, batho ba ba tlaabong ba bala batho ka March 18 to 31 ba tshwanetse go bonwa ka kapari ya bone.
Diaparo tsa bone di tshwanetse gore di supe go na le kgolokwenyana e e reng palobatho 2022, kgolokwenyana e o tshwanetse o e bone mo diaparong tsa bone, a ke sekipara, bakinyana kana ke eng.

Sa bobedi ba tshwanetse gore ba nne le lekwalo le le kwadilweng mo go se re se bitsang re re letterhead ya ga Goromente wa Botswana, e seng go ikwaletse Peggy, Molaodi kana mang.
Lekwalo le le supang gore yo ke ene David Tshere o tlile go bala batho mo kgaolong ya Mahalapye, mme leina le le kwadilweng mo teng ga lekwalo leo le bo le tshwana le Omang wa motho yoo.

Ke gore a se ka a go neela lekwalo a bo a sa go neele Omang.

O tshwanetse gore a tle a apere kapari e e supang census logo, a bo a tshotse lekwalo le le supang gore o hirilwe, e bile o tlile, o bala batho kwa kgaolong eo, e bo e le gore leina le le kwadilweng mo lekwalong leo le tshwana le le mo go Omang.
Fa ba tla ka koloi le yone e tshwanetse e nne le kgolokwe eo ya census, gore ba se ka ba bo ba le direla jaaka re setse re belaela gore bangwe ba a tsietsa.

Ya bofelo Mr Speaker, ya Palapye, ga ke e itse eo Honourable Ramogapi, mme ga ke itse gore ba tlaabo ba dirile jang kwa Ofising ya ga Molaodi.

Ke tlaa e tsaya mofago ke e buisane le ba ga rona bo Permanent Secretary (PS) ka kwano le Statistics Botswana, gore ba tle ba di sale morago gore di ka tswa di ne tsa fapoga fa kae.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Mr Speaker.

Mma re dumedise batlotlegi, re dumedise setšhaba.

Tona motho o ka botsa ka timelines, re leka to plan for tse di tlaa tlang kwa morago, gore re a utlwa gore exercise e ya go fela leng.

Yone mme fa exercise e fedile ka March jaana o solofetse report leng gore e bo e ka tswa e fiwa setšhaba?

Kana ke yone e e ka tlang ya re supegetsa gore ka fa go tlholang go dirwa ka teng re ka solofela delimitation leng.
Ya bobedi ke ya the one size fits all planning, gore kana dikgaolo di a farologana Tona, motho fa a ka botsa, ditsela tse di tshwanang tsa borona kwa tse di tlhokang boats, dikepe, difofane, kwa deltas, kwa e leng gore ga o ka ke wa goroga teng ka koloi, ga ke a go utlwa o bua sepe ka tsone, ke utlwile o bua dikoloi fela, palo ya tsone, gore tsone le dirile jang gore ba ga rona le bone kwa ba nne le dipelo tse di wetseng gore ka boammaaruri le rona re tlaa balwa?

Tanki.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Ke leboga thata Honourable Kekgonegile.

Sa ntlha ke ne ka tlhalosa gore fa ba sena go nna ba fetsa dipalo tsa bone jaana ka March, akere ba tlaabo ba boa ba ya go nna kwa ofising ba kopanya dipalo, re solofetse report gore e ye go tswa ka kgwedi ya May mo ngwageng ono.
Ya bobedi Honourable Kekgonegile, sengwe se re neng re se dira ka pilot census ke go bona gore kwa go nang le mafelo a a nang le very difficult terrain, mme re gorogile kwa go one, e ne e le gone go a go bona gore fa go tlhokafala dikoloi ke tsa mofuta mang, fa e le gore ke boats ke tsa mofuta mang.

Gape o tlaa gakologelwa gore kana ga se la ntlha go balwa batho, tse tsotlhe already re ne re setse re ntse re na le a very good understanding ya gore dikgaolo dingwe di tlhoka eng.
Ke bo ke gatelele gape gore, jaaka re le mo tirong ya palobatho re bereka le ba Botswana Defence Force (BDF), sepodise le maphata a mangwe a a farologaneng.

Dingwe tsa ditsompelo tse re tlaabong re di dirisa ke tse ba tlaabong ba re thusa ka tsone, gone go bona gore kwa re tlhokang go tsamaya ka mekoro teng re ya go tsamaya ka mekoro, kwa gongwe re a go tlhoka le tsone helicopters tota go tsamaya ka tsone.

Ke tse di setseng di ntse di le mo thulaganyong.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


MR BROOKS: Thank you Mr Speaker and good morning.

Tona ke tsaya gore bakaulengwe ba go boditse dipotso, re tlaa nna re ntse re dikologa fela.

Fela like Honourable Kekgonegile, to make a follow-up mo go se a neng a se botsa, e re ntswa ke itse gore recently delimitation committee e ne e tsamaya addressing dikhansele le bone ba supa maikaelelo a bone.
Potso ke gore, a e ya gore morago ga palobatho jaaka o re begela jaana fa delimitation le yone e tsena are you going to 18 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS address this House, o bua ka kakanyetso ya delimitation le ka fa le batlang e ya go anama ka teng?
Fa godimo ga moo, ka jaanong re tsena mo palobathong, a le lebeletse calendars tsa events, these national events, gore tsone ka dates tseo, a ga di ye go kgoreletsa go bala batho, batho ba ile ntlha e le nngwe fela botlhe ka lebaka la gore go a bo go na le tiro e ntsintsi e e ba batlang?

E ke itseng gore ga re ka ke ra e laola ke ya dintsho jalojalo.

Ke tsone tse ke neng ke re ke di lebele.


Looking at Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi, gongwe le akanyetsa gore batho ba ba yang go thapiwa koo, dikoloi le dilo tse tsotlhe tse, looking at the vastness of Kgalagadi, di ka tswa di tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang Tona?

Ke a leboga.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ntle ke simolole ka ya bofelo; ke tlhalose gore fa nka tsamaya le tsone ke di bala kgaolo ka kgaolo ke ka tloga ka le latsa fa.

Ke a itlama Mr Speaker, e tlaa re fa re fetsa, ke romelele batlotlegi.
Ke na le table e e supang gore kgaolo efe e ya go hirelwa babadi ba batho ba le supervisors di le kae, go ya go dirisiwa dikoloi di le kae; Kgalagadi South, jalojalo.

Fa ke ka di tsaya, mongwe le mongwe o tlaabo a re ke bue ya gagwe, ke tlaa di romela mo group ya rona Mr Speaker.

Ya bobedi mo gotweng a re lebeletse calendar of events, tota re di lebeletse Mr Speaker, tsotlhe tse di leng teng le tse di tlhokafalang.

Re dumela gore re dirile mo go maleba, mo go tlhokafalang gore re go dire.
Ke kope mo go wena Mr Speaker, gore tota tsa delimitations ga ke ka ke ka kgona go di arabela.

Se ke ka se arabelng fela ke gore re tlaa dira census, re bo re isa results gore di ye go thusa ba ba dirang delimitation commissions.

Beyond that, ga ke kgone go arabela gotlhelele tsa delimitation commissions le plans tsa bone le eng jalojalo Mr Speaker, ka gore fa ke leng teng, re santse re ba tshwere matsogo fela ka gore ba emetse gore re fetse census, re bo re ba neela maduo.
Fela re tlaa dira bojotlhe jwa rona gore re babalele le jaaka ke ne ke bua, go santse go le COVID-19, re dire tse tsotlhe batho ba babalesegile mo bolwetseng le tse dingwe tse di leng teng.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Good morning Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga Tona.

Ke ne ke re re a itse gore ga se lantlha census e dirwa mme gongwe ka experience ya tse di fetileng, o mphitise fa gore le ipaakantse go le kae mo seemong sa batho ba o fitlhelang ba sa dumalane le gore ba balwe?
Golo moo jaanong go a bo go re dira gore re se ka ra fiwa record e re e tlhokang ka gore le fa o bona ba gana go balwa jalo, fa ditlhabololo di tla, ba ya to benefit mme e le gore they were not catered for.

Le ipaakantse go le kae?


Two; a ga le ise le tsene mo seemong Tona sa gore le lebelele gore a system e e dirisiwang e ya go bala, a e re fa dipalo tota kwa re nnang teng tsa boammaaruri, tse tsa potso ya bo go tsogile mang fa, le fa nna tota ke sa tseye gore e na le molato, ba bangwe o fitlhela ba tsaya gore e na le molato.

Gone mme fa o bala ka system e re e dirisang e, a ga re ise re bone gore nako e gongwe e fetile ya gore re e fetole, re bale ka system e mongwe le mongwe o tlaa balelwang kwa ga bone?
Ya bofelo Tona ke gore, ke a dumela e bile information tse dingwe tse di batliwang tse, Molaodi wa me le Council Secretary (CS) ba sale ba di mphile, tsa bo gore go ya go hirwa bo mang, jang.

Ke a itse gore keletso ke gore go hirwe motho yo e leng gore ga a ye go tlhoka accommodation.

O hirelwa fa ga bone gore a se ka a tlhoka mme e bile o ka kgona go bua le sone Sekgalagadi, o ka botsa dipotso ka puo ya gaetsho ya Sekgalagadi gore Mokgalagadi a tle a mo arabe sentle.
Kana kwa dikgaolong tsa rona Tona, o ya go fitlhela e le gore gongwe batho bone bao ba bo Diploma le Degree, mo metseng e mengwe gotlhelele ga o ka ke wa fitlhela motho wa seemo sone seo mme re na le batho ba e leng gore ba na le experience ya palo ya batho e e fetileng.

A fa go ntse jalo, batho bao ga ba ye to be considered go lebilwe one mabaka a ke sa tswang go a bua motlotlegi jaaka o sa tswa go tlhalosa?

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Serame.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Tla ke simolole ka ya bofelo.

Mo go eo ya bofelo ke ne ke re kana go beilwe seelo seo sa Diploma le Degree, re bo re e neela bo Molaodi boikarabelo jwa gore ba hire, re tshepha gore le bone ba tlaa lebelela seemo case by case.
Fa ba na le dikgwetlho kana mo ba bonang gore go na le sengwe se se ka berekang botoka, ba tshwanetse gore ba itshwaraganye le bone ba Statistics Botswana, ba e leng gore they are the technical department to say gore kana ka kwano seemo sa rona se ntse jaana mme re bona go ka bereka go ntse jaana.
Se se botlhokwa Mr Speaker ke gore, sengwe le sengwe se se dirwang go bo go le very transparent, go na le motlhala, e se ka ya re kamoso yo mongwe a ipelaetsa gore nnyaa ba ne ba tswa go hira ditsala tsa bone tsa bogologolo kana jang.

What is important ke gore go nne le puisanyo, documentation and a clear process ya gore go ne ga diragala jang fa e le gore sengwe was varied ka tsela nngwe.
19 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022STATEMENT2022 POPULATION AND HOUSING CENSUS Ya bofelo e go neng gotwe ba ba ganang go balwa.

Kana molao one o wa census o tlhamaletse gore go ka tsewa dikgato dife.

Tota Mr Speaker, o tlaa fitlhela ke eletsa e bile ke kopa gore batlotlegi re thuseng.

Tota ga ke batle re tsena kwa seemong se e leng gore jaanong re ya go dirisa molao go patika batho go bala.

A re pepetletsaneng, re bontshane botlhokwa jwa gore rotlhe re balwe.
Kana gatwe mpala ke botlhokwa, fa o gana go balwa wa re wena ga o botlhokwa mme rotlhe re botlhokwa.

Fa o itse gore o botlhokwa gore o ye go direlwa ditirelo le tse dingwe, o tlaa bona go siame gore e bile go tshwanetse gore o balwe.

Finally Mr Speaker, the pilot census e e dirilweng ka October e ne e test, le yone the questionnaire; the sensitivity.

Re a itse gore go na le dipotso tse in the past go ne go tle gotwe batho ga ba di rate ka fa di bodiwang ka teng.
Jaanong re ne re botsa dipotso gore e re fa re di botsa batho, re bo re boa re ya go di fetola go se kae gore di tsamaelane le maikutlo le dinako tsa gompieno gore re se ka ra tloga ra fatlha ope.

Re dumela gore after the pilot census Mr Speaker, re baakantse gore ga gona ope tota yo potso e tshwanetseng gore e bo e mo fatlhe.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MOTAOSANE: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Minister, ke tshwenyegile thata, kgang e ya gore go ya go hirwa, ke gore ke utlwa o kare le e bua gore go santse go tlaa hirwa mme go lebega batho ba hirilwe e bile ba bangwe ba setse ba le mo orientations.

Dilo tse di botlhoko ka gore rona ba motse o tshwana le Thamaga, Mogoditshane jaanong o kare ke yone e e dirang tiro eo because bana kwa ga rona ga ba itse le gore go diragala eng.
Jaanong ke ipotsa potso gore a mme gone go tsamaile sentle Honourable Minister ka dikhiro tsa teng ka gore kwa ga rona bana ga ise e be ba hirwe.

Kana ba ba hirilweng ba hirilwe go tsewa gore ke bana ba Mogoditshane kana jang.

I do not know ka gore fa gotwe Molaodi… E re ntswa re na le Mothusa Molaodi kwa ga Thamaga, o tlaa fitlhela o kare sengwe le sengwe jaanong se tsewa kwa se tla go dirwa mo Mogoditshane.

Jaanong gongwe o re thuse ka sebopego sa mohuta oo.
Gongwe gape potso e ka nna gore fa re bona batho golo gongwe ba sa balwa, re bo re ba leletsa gore batho ba Modimo, batho mo kgaolong e ga ba a balwa jaaka go diragetse ka 2011 kwa Thamaga, e bo ba sa tseye kgato epe, ba sa boele koo go ya go bala batho bao.

Foo gone go dirwa jang?

Thank you Minister.

MS SERAME: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ntle ke simolole ka ya khiro.


Ya khiro tsholofelo ya me ke gore fa e le supervisors jaaka ke ne ke bua gore they are already in training, ke solofela gore di bo di setse di hirilwe.

Go na le kgonagalo ya gore kgaolo nngwe kgotsa e bo e santse e saletse kwa morago e sa ba hira botlhe.
Ba bangwe ba ba balang batho, ke dumela gore le bone ba setse ba simolotse go hirwa fa e le gore bangwe ba ka tswa ba saletse kwa morago ka gore jaanong e tshwanetse gore fa March a tsena, le bone e bo e le gore ba tsena mo ithutuntshong pele ga ba bala batho.

Kgang ya gore go tlaa dirwa jang fa batho ba ne ba sa balwa; tota jaaka ke ne ke tlhalosa, bo Molaodi ke bone ba neetsweng boikarabelo jo jotlhe jwa supervision yotlhe ya census.
O tshwanetse gore e bile ke le kopa le lona Batlotlegi Mapalamente, tsenyang leitlho.

Fa le bona sengwe se fatlha teng, bolelelang bo Molaodi mme le rona re le Statistics Botswana, re tlaabo re le teng le Ministry of Finance go bona gore fa sengwe se tlhaetse golo gongwe re ka thusa jang.

Se ba tshwanetseng gore ba se dire fa ka mangwe mabaka motho a ne a sa balwa, ba tshwanetse gore ba boele teng.
Ke yone tsamaiso e e leng teng mme fa sengwe ka gore phoso e dirwa le motho, fa e diragetseng teng, re tshwanetse re tsibose ba ba maleba gore ba tseye dikgato tse di maleba.

Ke kopa batlotlegi gotlhelele Mr Speaker, gore a le bone ba re thuse tota mo puisanyong ya batho ba, le go ruta Batswana, le go bona gore se se maleba se a dirwa.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister.

I had seen the hand of Honourable Kablay, I do not see it anymore.

MR KABLAY: Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Leuwe o e boditse sir.

MR SPEAKER: Okay.

Thank you.

I thank you Honourable Minister.

Let us move on to Motions.

COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: The debate Honourable Members on this Motion is resuming.
When the House adjourned Friday 11th February, Honourable Morwaeng was on the floor debating, he was left with five minutes 22 seconds.

Honourable Morwaeng.

20 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, Honourable Morwaeng is attending the Commission of enquiry in Molepolole.
So, he will not be available today.

MR SPEAKER: Then we proceed with the next person, which is you Honourable Mthimkhulu.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ame ke tlaabo ke tlaleletsa fela mo mafokong a a setseng a builwe ke Rre Morwaeng maloba.
Ke simolole fela ke re fa re bala the Commissions of Enquiry’s Act, Section 2 ya teng, e supa gore Tautona ke ene fela fa e le gore o lemogile gore go a tlhokafala gore go ka tlhomiwa Commission of Enquiry, a bo a ka tswelela a e appoint.

Ya re ‘whenever he deems it advisable,’ ke Tautona, ke molao wa Commissions of Enquiry ka fa o kwadilweng ka teng.
Jaanong fa re bala Motion o wa ga Motlotlegi Dithapelo Keorapetse o kare o batla gore Palamente e e tseele Tautona tshwetso gore Tautona a ye to appoint Commission of Enquiry.

Fa re bala Motion o sentle wa ga Motlotlegi Keorapetse, o a bona gore wa re “that this Honourable House resolves that His Excellency the President sets up a Commission of Enquiry…” Se a se kopang ke gore Palamente e tseye tshwetso ya gore Tautona a ye to appoint Commission of Enquiry.
So this Motion seeks at the end of the day, to oblige the President, to direct the President, to impose on the President that he should go and appoint a Commission of Enquiry to do with these particular issues that he has raised.

Kopo ya ga Motlotlegi Keorapetse fa o e tsaya, o e bapisa le one molao o o kwadilweng o, e gotlhagotlhana le molao ka gore Tautona … HONOURABLE Honourable Mthimkhulu o ise o fete gone foo.
MEMBER: Clarification MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, ga o ka ke wa tsena fela o bo o batla go bua o iphuaganya mo teng, ka gore le ntse le bua re le reeditse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke a kopa tsala yame.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, o tlile go ntseela nako, I only have 10 minutes.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: I will not take time, ke batla clarification e khutshwane fela.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ee rra, you can go ahead.

MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker, ke a leboga tsala ya me Mthimkhulu.
Honourable Mthimkhulu ka fa o e bayang ka teng, o e baya as if Tautona ga a nke a gakololwa gore a tle mo seemong sa gore a tle a nne le yone kutlwisiso ya gore go a tlhokafala gore a dire commission.

O e baya fela gore ke gore Palamente ga e a tshwanela go gakolola Tautona le go mo kopa gore a nne le maikutlo ao.

Wa re molao o itsa Palamente go gakolola Tautona le go mo kopa gore a nne le kutlwisiso yone eo.
MR MTHIMKHULU: Gakere o a bona gore o ne o batla go tswa mo tseleng fela ka yone puo e o e buang eo?

Ga ke ise ke re Palamente ga e ka ke ya gakolola Tautona, ka re ka fa le kwadileng Motion ka teng.

I never said so.

You are misrepresenting me.

The Motion, read it again, 10 times gore o kgone goo tlhaloganya gore wa reng Motion o wa ga Motlotlegi Keorapetse.

It is a directive to the President, ga e re e a gakolola, ga e re it is advising.

It is not saying that.


Jaanong Motion o fa o o bala o o bapisa le Section 47 ya the Constitution of Botswana, and if I may quote with your permission Mr Speaker from Section 47.

MR SPEAKER: Please do.
MR MTHIMKHULU: Ya re “the Executive powers ...(inaudible)… shall vest in the President and subject to the provisions of this Constitution, shall be exercised by Him or Her either directly or through officers’ subordinate to Him or Her.” Then 2 ya re “in the exercise of any function confined upon Him or Her by this Constitution or any other law, the President shall, unless it is otherwise provided, act in His or Her own deliberate judgment and shall not be obliged to follow the advice tendered by any other person or authority.” Jaanong o bona gore fa re tsaya yone Section 2 ya the Commissions of Enquiry Act re bo re e bapisa le Section 47 ya the Constitution, kopo ya ga Motlotlegi Keorapetse tota jaanong e thulathulana le molao thata.
E bo e tswelela gape yone Section 47 e re “nothing contained in such can Parliament from conferring factions on persons or authorities other than the President.” Jaanong Palamente yone fa e ne e ka boela kwa go the Commissions of Enquiry Act e bo e amend so that it is clear that it is not the President who must exercise that executive function or power or authority …(Interruptions) … 21 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of clarification.
Just a quick one, a quick one ke gore the Standing Orders permit amendment ya Motion.

Fa Motion o ka request, o kare “that this Honourable House request the President,” will you be amenable?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Nnyaa, ke bua ka Motion ka fa o ntseng ka teng, I am not advising ….

MR MTHIMKHULU: Ee, Palamente e ka amend fa le batla to amend.
Ke ya ga Keorapetse le ba bangwe ba ba batlang to amend, nna ke bua ka fa Motion o ntseng ka teng gore o thulathulana le molao, e bile Batswana ba tshwanetse ba itse gore o thulathulana le molao.

Motion o ga o a siama, Keorapetse o batla go tsaya powers tsa ga President a bo a di ipeela, a di ipha ka fa Motion o buang ka teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes, but the Standing Orders permit the Motion to be amended.

The question is that, are you amenable if that amendments can be effected?
MR MTHIMKHULU: I am only saying the Motion is misconceived, it is ill-advised, I am dealing with the Motion on paper.

If you think you can amend your Motion, go and amend it, I am not there to assist you … HONOURABLE MEMBER: I answered me, you are clear.

think you have MR MTHIMKHULU: Yes, I am very clear.

I am dealing with the Motion on paper that you have brought to Parliament Motlotlegi Keorapetse.

This Motion ka bo one fela o thulathulana le molao, ga o kgonagale.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: You have amended Motion wa ga Honourable Boko before.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng o sa nne helpful jaanong?

MR MTHIMKHULU: Helpful from Keorapetse, gakere Keorapetse a re o itse thata.

O tshwanetse gore e re fa a tlisa dilo tse …(Interruptions) … I am only showing him that his Motion is ill-conceived, ga o a siama.

O thulathulana le molao.

Ke sone se ke batlang go se supa gore a a ye go ikakanya sentle a tlise Motion o o siameng fa a batla go o tlisa.

I am only saying that.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wena ga o o batle?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Keorapetse le wena monna re batla go baakanya Motion, a ko o lese go o tlontlokela le wena.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, Mthimkhulu ga a batle, wena ga o utlwe Motaosane, ga a batle, he is very clear.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, mme gakere ga se Mthimkhulu a le nosi a o netlang, Palamente can amend.

Motion is very broad, o batla dilo tse dintsintsi.


Fa Honourable Keorapetse a ka bo a re re batla gore re dire Commission of Enquiry ka NPF kana re batla go dira Commission of Enquiry ka corruption e e neng e diragala kwa BDF ka 2008 to 2018, o bona golo foo go na le a timeframe?
Go na le batho ba ba itseng gore Commission e ka tsaya dikgwedi tse pedi, tse four, e ka tsaya ngwaga, gore re tle re bone gore mme fa gotwe go ne go rekiwa le dikoloi tse di suleng kwa BDF, a mme di ne di sule, a mme gone go na le corruption.

A go na le family e nngwe e neng e benefit mo tendering kwa BDF.

Motion o o tshwanetse gore o nne jalo.

Fa o leba o wa ga Zondo Commission, Keorapetse seems to be the person who has been following it, it was directed to deal with certain issues, specific issues.
E rile fa Zuma a re o oketsa terms of reference, a tewa gotwe nnyaa it cannot be that broad, Commission ga e ka ke ya fetsa tiro ya yone.
Jaanong fa re bua ka corruption, re batla go re re lwantshe corruption, because we have the Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) which is doing its job jaaka Rre Morwaeng a ne a bua, we have the Botswana Police, the Courts, we the FIA, we have Declaration of Assets Act e e leng gore e fetisiwe to augment what has been happening, what has been done by the Government of Botswana to deal with corruption.
Fa e le gore he feels gore dilo tse ga di enough, and he has specific instances tsa corruption which he feels they are being dealt with, a Motlotlegi Keorapetse a ye go di tsaya a tle fa a di beye.
Fa e le gore he feels there has been maladministration that has not been dealt with by the Ombudsman, a a di tseye a di beye fa, so that we deal with this commission fa e le gore di ka nna teng, so that the commission would be able to be specific and direct e deal le certain issues that are of concern to the nation.

Ke sone se ke se buang gore Rre Keorapetse, a re ye go bua ka planes tse gotweng ga di yo mo Botswana go nne le commission of inquiry, ke raya fa o batla.
Re bone gore a mme plane e kile ya rekiwa ya se ka ya tla mo Botswana, jaaka mabarebare a bua because commission e simolola gone fa mabarebareng.
Re bue gore a mme madi a jelwe, a jelwe ke bomang, commission of inquiry to deal with that… 22 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): Clarification.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke a leboga Minister for yielding.


O e tshwere sentle Minister, gongwe o gatelele kgang ya gore we cannot just set up a commission of inquiry which would be just shooting in the dark, re sa itse gore tota gatwe re bua ka fa kae fa e leng gore the maladministration was done.

I think that is a very good point Mr Speaker.

Thank you Minister.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Thank you.

A re bueng ka Commission of Inquiry e e buang ka Makgadikgadi a lefatshe le gore le tserwe ke bangwe le ditsala tsa bangwe.
Let us be specific, if you want to deal with corruption, let us deal with corruption e re itseng gore there are allegations out there that have not been dealt with… “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Your time is up Honourable Minister!

MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Mr Speaker, ke a go leboga sir.

Mr Speaker, mma ke simolole fela ka kgang e e buiwang ke Honourable Mthimkhulu.
Mr Speaker, ke supe gore Honourable Mthimkhulu ga a bue boammaaruri, mme ntetlelele ke nopole (quote) molao ka gore o o kgaoseditse mo tseleng Mr Speaker, wa Commission of Inquiry Act.

Ke ka tswelela?

MR RAMOGAPI: Mr Speaker, (Interruptions)…it is not a procedure… that is … MR SPEAKER: Ema pele Honourable Ramogapi, the Assistant Minister stood on a point of procedure and it takes precedence, he has got to be listened to.

We have got your time frozen, please do not panic.


Please go ahead Honourable Assistant Minister.

MR MTHIMKHULU: Yes, if I may quote from Section 3 of Commissions of Inquiry Act Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Do quote Honourable Minister.
MR MTHIMKHULU: It reads, “If such commission issued in terms of Section 2 shall specify the subject of inquiry and may in the discretion of the President, if there is more than one Commissioner, direct which Commissioner shall be the Chairman and direct where and when such inquiry shall be made, and the report thereof rendered and prescribed how such commission shall be executed and may direct whether the inquiry shall or shall not be held in public.” The section that Mr Ramogapi read to this House is completely different, it is wrong, so tota it is unfair of him and to this House that he should be reading a section saying that it shows that any House of Parliament can pass a Motion to that effect.
He is misleading this House.

MR RAMOGAPI: Mr Speaker, motho yo o a re dia yo, mpha sebaka sa me ke debate, o buile.

MR SPEAKER: Please go ahead Honourable Member for Palapye.

MR SPEAKER: Please listen to him, he is saying you are reading an irrelevant section to what you are… MR RAMOGAPI: I am quoting word for word Mr Speaker, “the appropriate Government may if it is of opinion that if necessary so to do and shall… MR RAMOGAPI: Ee, who is correct?
Le nna ka re he is reading irrelevant… mo ntshe mo dikgannyeng tseo ke bue Mr Speaker.

MR MTHIMKHULU: What Section is it?

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke Section 3 rraetsho.

…and shall if resolution in this behalf is passed by each House of Parliament or…(Interruptions)…legislature of the… ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC (MR MTHIMKHULU): ADMINISTRATION Procedure.

Mr Speaker, he is misleading this House and the nation when he is saying he is reading from Section 3.
Section 3 of Commissions of Inquiry Act does not speak to that.

Ramogapi is saying something that is not in the Commissions of Inquiry Act.

Section 3 says that… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Section eo, ga se ya Botswana.

MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure.

In all fairness Mr Speaker, because much as we want to put our points across, we do not want to mislead anybody.

I am afraid I will have to agree with Honourable Mthimkhulu that, that is not the Commissions of Inquiry Act of Botswana.
Fa e le sengwe Honourable Ramogapi may be quoting a different law.

I think procedurally, let us stick to the subject at hand and let us use appropriate means.

I beg my comrade and colleague to… MR RAMOGAPI: Okay, mma ke withdraw Mr Speaker, le a ntia.
23 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse is still on the floor Honourable Ramogapi, give your colleagues a chance more so that Honourable Keorapetse stood on a point of procedure.
MR KEORAPETSE: Ke ne ke re note that I will send Honourable Ramogapi the correct statute because I do not believe that it is the correct statute.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi, I hope you are taking into cognisance the advice from your colleague, Honourable Member for Selebi Phikwe Bophirima.

What is your take on his advice?

MR RAMOGAPI: I will take his advice.

I withdraw, mma re tswelele Mr Speaker, ke batla go fetsa ka bonako.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Procedure.


Nnyaa, mme Mr Speaker, o se ka wa tloga wa ikgogela kwa mathateng a re itseng gore fa o le foo, o tlile go tsenngwa mo go one.

O se ka wa re kgantele o bo o re you are in a conundrum ka gore o tlaabo o e ipatletse.

Point of procedure ke gore you were supposed to rule fa Assistant Minister a sena go bua.

Jaanong o tlogela batho ba tsena ka points of procedure, ba bangwe are withdrawing which is out of order ka gore you did not rule.
Fa point e ntshiwa, please rule ba se ka ba go golela kwa conundrum.

MR SPEAKER: The conundrum or the syndonomium that you are talking about Honourable Vice President (VP), in all fairness kana ba bua tse e leng gore ga go na…(Interruptions)…mo go tsone… MR RAMOGAPI: Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore nako ya me e emisitswe kana ga ke ise ke bue.

MR SPEAKER: Ao!

Ga o eme wa reetsa pele ne rra?

Re bofile nako ya gago.

MR TSOGWANE: …ke dilo di sele fela, a bolelele setšhaba gore o ne a ipuela dilo di sele fela.
MR SPEAKER: Let us have order Honourable VP.

In all fairness… VP o buile se a se buileng ke mo fetotse.

Jaanong Honourable Ramogapi being the owner of the floor, has got to continue I am afraid.

Honourable Ramogapi.

jwa kgang ke gore MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, boammaaruri tota corruption mo lefatsheng la Botswana, e a re kokonela.

Ba Puso e e busang ya ga Domkrag, ba rile ba tlaa lwantsha corruption.
Corruption jaaka re bua jaana, ga go na ope yo o sa leleng ka yone, budget e e neng e feta gompieno ya ga Mme Serame, o ne a kwala gore batho ba Modimo, re mo mathateng, there is an elephant in the room.

Ka gore ba batla go itshwarelela ka gore Motion wa ga Honourable Dithapelo ga o a tla sentle, a re boeleng kwa morago Mr Speaker, re ipotse gore a ke la ntlha Motion o tla o re a go nne le Commission of Enquiry mo Palamenteng, e bo e dirwa.
A re simololeng fela re ipotse gore commissions tse di kileng tsa sutisiwa tsa bo Rre Molefhabangwe tse di neng di supa gore go nne le commission e bo e dirwa mo Palamenteng, a go ne go le phoso.

Go ne go se phoso.

Commission e tsile e tla e le proposal, e tswa mo Palamenteng.
Molao wa re fa o bona go le advisable, fa e le gore Palamente e ka mo gakolola ya re nnyaa, Tautona corruption e gaketse, re kopa gore o sekaseke go bona gore a re ka se ke re e nyeletse ka go tlhoma Commission of Enquiry, go a letlelesega golo moo.

Se se buega ke Mthimkhulu, ga se sone gotlhelele, ga se mo tseleng.

Mr Speaker, jaaka re bua jaana, ba Trading Economics ba re corruption mo Botswana e godile go tswa mo go 34 go ya kwa go 35.

E bile ba re e godile jaana ka ngwaga wa 2020.


Ba re e ntse e a tswelela e a gola.

Jaanong fa e tswa mo go 34 e bo e ya kwa go 35, Mma Serame le ene a bo a bua a re batho ba Modimo nthusang, there is an elephant in the room, e bo e re fa re tla ka Motion a bo re simolola gotwe go itshwarelelwe ka dilo tse di tshesanyane, nnyaa batho betsho.

Bonang, Rre Matsheka o buile le ene pele ga ga Mma Serame a re, batho ba Modimo, 37 per cent wa Development Budget goes to waste.
Waste e dingwe tsa dilo tsa teng fa re di tlhotlhomisa, di felela kwa corruption.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga go na Mopalamente yo o buang dilo di sele Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Bagaetsho, may we have order Honourable Mmolotsi, I have not given you a chance.

Ke tlaa le leleka kana fa le batla go bona my other side of the story, you cannot talk o sa fiwa chance.

Honourable Mo Palapye Mr Speaker, fa ke ka go bolelela, go na le ntlo ya kago e e neng e agiwa ke ba Puso gotwe ke matlhabelo a dikoko.
Mr Speaker, ke matlhabisaditlhong, ba a itse ba Agriculture, ntlo gompieno jaana ga e yo e nyeletse, go dirisitswe madi a a gakgamatsang.

Potso e teng gone mo Palamenteng, ba tshaba go e araba.
Ke sale ke buile ka yone gore fa o ya kwa Serowe kafa 24 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) molemeng kafa, go sentswe millions gotwe go agiwa matlhabelo a dikoko mo Palapye.

Officers ba ntse ba fetisa fela gore nnyaa, stage se kago e fetile.

Fa gotwe go tsenngwa machinery, gatwe plan e ga se yone.
Go diregile mathata a a gakgamatsang.

A o ka bona corruption e e diragalang Mr Speaker.

MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Honourable Member, ke go botse gore, go na le kgang e e buiwang ke maDomkrag ba ka nna bararo ba ba setseng ba e buile.

Yo mongwe e ne e le point of clarification, mme ba bangwe was when they were debating.

Ba re makalana a teng, fa makalana a le teng go raya gore ga go tlhokafale gore go ka nna le a Commission of Enquiry.
Ke go botse mogolole gore, go na le nako efe e go kileng ga nna le Commission of Enquiry, mme go sena makalana a a lebaneng a gongwe a ka itebaganyang le dikgang tseo?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ya Bobonong e dirilwe makalana a le teng, ya dikgomo.

MR KEORAPETSE: Ke one a ke a buang, thank you Honourable Moswaane.

Le mo go yone ya bogodu jwa leruo, sepodise, Directorate of Intelligence and Security (DIS), Agriculture di teng, mme Commission of Enquiry e nnile teng.

A o bona golo mo e le lebaka?


MR RAMOGAPI: Comrade, golo mo ke go itshwarelela ka metsi, mme metsi fa o itshwarelela ka one, a a go reledisa, ga o ka ke wa ba wa itshwarelela.

Ba leka go itshwarelela ka metsi.

Maloba Rre Morwaeng le ene o ne a itshwarelela ka metsi a re, kana go na le maphata a mangwe a a tlhotlhomisang, a re lephata la Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) le a tlhotlhomisa… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go thiba metsi ka letlhaku.
MR RAMOGAPI: Lephata la DCEC ga le kgone go tlhotlhomisa dikgang tse Rre Keorapetse a di kwadileng tsa bo mismanagement… …Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Palapye, have we lost you?

Please unmute yourself.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ee rra, ke boile gakere?

MR SPEAKER: You are back Honourable Ramogapi.


MR RAMOGAPI: Lekgotla le Rre Kabo Morwaeng a reng le siame le ka tlhotlhomisa, la DCEC, ga le kgone go tlhotlhomisa dikgang tsa mismanagement, maladministration and unethical in governance, ga le tsene golo foo.

Tiro ya lone fela gatwe le tlhotlhomisa allegation ya corruption, le bo le eme gone foo.

Le ruta setšhaba, le bo le kganela corruption.

Mo go tse dingwe fela fa o ka bega ba re nnyaa, moo ke maladministration, ga re tsene foo.
Jaanong dilo tse ke ipotsa gore Matona, e le bone ba ba okametseng lephata le, a ga ba di itse kana ba a bo ba leka go tsietsa setšhaba ka bomo.

Mr Speaker, Global Competitiveness e rile fa ba bua ba ntsha report ba re, corruption ya lefatshe la Botswana e a tshwenya, e a gola.

Ba Business Anti-Corruption Portal e rile fa ba bua ba re, corruption ya lefatshe la Botswana e a tshwenya, e a gola.
Ba Transparency International ba ne ba fa report ba re, Botswana e tsamaya mo go 61 out of 100, ba bua ka 2019 ba re corruption e ntse e a gola mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Matona a Madi e ba tshwentse corruption ba re, corruption ya lefatshe la Botswana e ntse e a gola.

Mapalamente a Domkrag jaaka ba ne ba ntse ba bua maabane mo speech ba re batho ba Modimo, corruption ke e e re tsentse fa le fa.
Jaanong a letsatsi leno re tshwanetse go itshwarelela ka metsi le bua bo gore nnyaa, kana Rre Keorapetse o batla go tseela Tautona dithata?

Ga a ise a rialo.

Fa go na le lephata, lekalana le an arm e e ka gakololang Tautona, ke Palamente.

Fa Palamente e dumalana, ga se gore e pateletsa Tautona gore a dire jalo, no it is not like that.

Fa Palamente e dumalana, fa go tswa fa go ya go tsena kwa go Tautona, Tautona o na le thata ya gore o ka tsaya that advice kana a e gana.
O na le thata ya gore o ka tsaya resolution eo a e diragatsa kana a gana.

Go na le resolutions tse dintsi tse di dirilweng mo Palamenteng e, tse ba sa di diragatsang, ga ba tlamege.

E kare le molao o fetisiwa mo Palamenteng e fa o fetisitswe, fa Tautona a sa batle go o baya monwana (sign) he does not do it, o lesa fela go fitlhele nako ya teng e feta jaaka go kile ga diragala.

Jaanong ga re a tshwanela go itshwarelela ka metsi maDomkrag, kgofa e tseneletse itsholelo e e ja.
Fa le ka gana mogopolo o, re tlaa nna le pelaelo ya gore e le ruri ke lona le senyang, le batla go senya.

Mo le go buang mo, le go bua fela go leka go kgatlha batho, maikaelelo a lona a matona ke go senya, ke go utswela setšhaba.

Jaaka re bona motho a tsena e le Tona, a tsena a bopame, e bo e re go ise go ye kae o bo o bona motho jaanong a agile matlo kwa bo Phakalane, o tsamaya ka dikoloi tse di gakgamatsang.

Dilo tse di tshwenya Batswana, ga se gore Batswana ga ba a le lebelela.

Ba re ao!
Ba re ao!

naare dilo tse batho ba, bone ba di tsaya kae, ba bereka kae?

25 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ramogapi, wena o nontshitswe ke eng?

O nontshitswe ke eng wena?


MR RAMOGAPI: Dilo tse re le lebeletse, le Batswana ba le lebeletse… HONOURABLE MEMBER: O nontshitswe ke eng Ramogapi, ke corruption?

MR RAMOGAPI: …ka fa le batlang go gopela itsholelo ya lefatshe la Botswana ka teng.

Go na le selo gatwe direct award, lesika le le lengwefela le ja direct awards.

A ke kwa Health, a ke kwa kae.

Re a itse gore fa motho a itsaya senepe le Tautona, kamoso o fiwa tender ya masks ya P200 million.

Mask o le mongwefela gotwe ke P200.00.


Dilo tse di tshwentse Batswana, di tlaa le jesa ditlhopho, le Modimo o tlaa le bona.

MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Ramogapi.

Maybe before I call another speaker, ke le kope fela batlotlegi Mapalamente, batsadi ba me, buisanang sentle.

Fa o bua lefoko o bua ka yo mongwe, le ene o go tika ka le lengwe, two wrongs do not make a right.

Le a tlotlega batsadi ba me, buisanang sentle.


The next speaker shall be Honourable Minister responsible for Health and Wellness, Honourable Lelatisitswe.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, unmute yourself.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Try again.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba siame, ke rile go iwe Chamber, ga gona ope wa lona yo o dumalanang le nna.

Ba tlaa nna ba ntse ba tima fela jaana, ke gone mo go siameng.

MR SPEAKER: Wena Rraagwe Atleha, ke bona gore ga o tshabe go swa.
Re ya go bolawa ke bolwetse gone kwa.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga bo ka ke, le ne le beetswe tante maloba fa gakere fa Palamenteng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ntlha ga bo bolae Cabinet, ga e tsene virtually mme ga bo ba bolae.

O kile wa utlwa gotwe Cabinet e sule?

MR SPEAKER: Ga se gore gongwe re fetele kwa pele a santse a lwa le dilo tsa makgoa?

26 HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nkarabe.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re tswelele nako e bolaisegile morena.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Let us go to the House.


ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Mr Speaker, a ke a utlwala?

MR SPEAKER: Ahaa!

Ke ne ke re ke a go feta, o a utlwala sir.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Mr Speaker, fa e le gore ke a utlwala.

MR SPEAKER: O a utlwala sir.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ee mathatanya a maranyane jaanong a re tsentse phatlha le phatlha legale ke tsaya gore ke utlwile se Honourable Dithapelo a neng a se bua, re mo utlwile.
Mr Speaker, ke utlwile mogopolo o Honourable Dithapelo a re o beileng pele.

Ke supe jalo Mr Speaker gore... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse.

Honourable LELATISITSWE: Lefoko MR Keorapetse Dithapelo, ka mogolo o a re o beileng pele Mr Speaker.
Ke supe jalo Mr Speaker, gore mogopolo o ka fa a o beileng ka teng, ke mogopolo o o utlwalang fa o o reeditse, mme go na le dintlha tse di tona tse re tshwanetseng go di lebelela gore a mme ka fa o beilweng ka teng, a ke mogopolo o o ka dirwang jaaka Minister a ne a bua.

Mogopolo o ka fa o beilweng ka teng, ke mogopolo fela o bogorogoro thata.

Fa re ka o dumela re le Palamente e, ke dumela gore le ene Honourable Dithapelo gongwe o ka ya go retire mo polotiking o ntse o lebeletswe.
Ga o se o o ka felang, o ka retire mo polotiking fa e le gore gongwe o ya go goroga mo dingwageng tse tsa bo Honourable Gobotswang.

O ya go tsena foo go ntse go lekwa gore mogopolo wa teng o dirwe.

Gongwe e bile le phathi ya gagwe e nyelela mogopolo o ntse o lekwa go dirwa ka gore o bogorogoro thata.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go raya gore corruption ya teng e ntsi.
MR LELATISITSWE: Nnyaa, e se gore e ntsi, gakere o phatlaletse, kana go ya go salwa morago dilo tse dintsi fela thata tse e leng gore… nna ka fa ke o lebeletseng ka teng, ke mogopolo o e leng gore gongwe Ntlo e e Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) tshwanetse gore e o sale morago, gongwe re kope ene nnetlu gore a boele mogopolo o morago a ye go kwala sešha a tle ka the particular dikgang tse a batlang di salwa morago fa e le gore o na le letshwenyego golo gongwe.
Gompieno, dintlha tsotlhe tse a di buang... lone?

Ke tlaa go fa example ka ya ga Rre Lesetedi e e neng e lebeletse madubedube a go abiwa ga lefatshe.

Ka nako ya fa e nna, a go ne go sena makalana a a neng a ka lebelela matshwenyego a kgang ya kabo ya lefatshe?

Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister.

MR LELATISITSWE: Ee rra, ke neela Vice President (VP).

MR SPEAKER: Clarification, Honourable Leader of the House.

sought, granted.
sought, granted.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Point of clarification.

Re a go utlwa Minister, o tla ka ntlha e e botlhokwa.

Fa e ne e le gore batho ba ka akanya ka fa o akanyang ka teng, go ne go ka thusa setšhaba, e bile go ne go ka thusa Ntlo e gore e kgone go dira ya yone motlhofo.
Kana fa o tla ka mogopolo Ntlong o a bo o raya gore bakaulengwe ba tle go o sekaseka, ba tle go gakololana le wena kana ba go gakolole gore e re fa o boela kwa morago o bo o ya go dira se se tshwanetseng kana se se ka diragalang ka nako e e rileng.

Fa e le gore maikaelelo a gago ga se go thusa batho, e ne e le go tla fela ka polotiki, nnyaa, ga o ka ke wa dira jalo.

MR LELATISITSWE: Go ntse jalo Your Honour.


Ke sone se ke se buang ke rialo ke re ka gore re a mogakolola gore tota mogopolo o ka fa a o beileng Ntlo ka teng, ke mogopolo o go tlhokafalang gore a boele kwa morago gongwe a ye go tsaya dintlha tse di mo tshwentseng.
Kana ke tsaya gore ga o ka ke wa re o tshwentswe fela ke dilo tsotlhe tse di diragalang mo lefatsheng ka gore re na le makalana a a ikemetseng a sepodise le Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) a a diretsweng jalo gore a ye go lebelela dikgang tse e leng tsa tshenyetso-setšhaba mo lefatsheng le, le one makgotla a rona a e leng gore dikgang tse... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso ke le mong wa Motion.

MR LELATISITSWE: Granted sir.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Selebi Phikwe Bophirima.
clarification.

MR KEORAPETSE: Point Honourable Lelatisitswe, ke ne ke re mogolole o nthuse fa gore Motion o o ka bo o kwalegile jang?

Ke sa ntlha.

of MR LELATISITSWE: Honourable Keorapetse nnaka, ke ne ke re fa o reeditse fela se o neng o se bua labofelo, ke sone se ke reng o ka bo o beile your Motion jalo o o lebagantse gongwe le… o re le madubadube a a diragalang mo ka bong ya lefatshe, jaaka o ne o bona gore that commission was specific, ga e akaretse sengwe le sengwe fela.
Kana gompieno that is just a blanket.

Ke gore is a blanket cheque, mongwe le mongwe o ka kwala se a se batlang.

Ke sone se ke reng by the time re fetsa topics tse e leng gore that commission e ka di dira, nna le wena tlaabo re tlogetse polotiki ka gore ... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought.

Honourable Member for Jwaneng-Mabutsane from the voice.

MR REATILE: Point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Tla ke go leboge Honourable Lelatisitswe.


Ke re ke utlwa dikgakololo tsa gago mo Tshutisong e e beilweng fa ke Honourable Keorapetse.

Honourable Lelatisitswe, gakere o a itse gore mme ka tsamaiso ya Ntlo e, jaaka o setse o bona go na le gore Motion o ga o a kwalega sentle, ga gona sepe se se go kgoreletsang o le Mopalamente mo Ntlong e gore o tlise amendment gore Motion o e bo e le gore re tswelela le one go nale gore o bo o re o a gana o boele kwa morago o ye go kwalwa sešha?
Ga gona sepe ka gore e setse e le Motion wa Ntlo.

E ne e le wa ga Honourable Keorapetse a santse a o kwala, jaanong fa o le o le mo tafoleng le wena o na le tshwanelo ya one.

Se se go itsang ke eng Honourable Lelatisitswe gore o leke go o baakanya?

I thank you sir.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Honourable Reatile.

O motho yo re tswang kgakala mmogo re le mo Palamenteng e. Ga ke motho yo ke ratang gore e re fela fa ke emelela ke bo ke tlisa something that is not researched.
That is why I need to go back and research, I cannot amend that Motion now.

Ga gona sepe se ke se batlisisitseng in terms of dikgang tse di lebaganeng le Motion o. Sa bobedi ke go botse gore o itse Commission of Inquiry efe e e kileng ya nna teng mo Botswana go sena lekalana lepe that deals le subject e commission eo e lebagane le MR TSOGWANE: Point of elucidation.

Ke tsaya gore o arabile.


My elucidation Minister, o arabile kgang ya ga Rre Reatile sentle, gape o tshwanetse gore a tlhalosediwe 27 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) gore jaaka o re Motion o ...(interruption)... Motion o na le selekanyo se o ka o baakanyang.

You do not just amend.


Fa o fetola Motion ka tsamaiso ya Palamente e, o tswa mo go se o se buang, ga go letlelesege.

Jaanong o o tshwanang le o, it is not amenable to amendment because o bogorogoro, o tlaabo o tla ka Motion o sele o o ka sekeng wa amogelesega.

So, ga o ka ke wa baakanyesega ka fa o ntseng ka teng.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Your Honour.

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you so much Your Honour.


Ke sone se ke neng ke rialo ke re kana jaanong ga ke batle go ntsha Motion completely jaaka His Honour a bua, gape le gone an issue of research in relation to our Motion... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR LELATISITSWE: Granted sir.

MR BOKO: Point of clarification.

Ke ne ke re Tona a o bona o bua boammaaruri?


Do you remember ka Motion o ke neng ke o tsisitse wa Gender Based Violence (GBV) fa re bua ka Commission of Inquiry lona le bo le bua ka Inter Ministerial?

Go raya gore le ne le dule tota mo the objective ya Motion wa teng.

Gompieno go ka pala eng gore re tswelele re dire jaaka re dirile go le pele in relation to that Motion?
Number two; kgang ya gore go tlhokana le gore o ye go batlisisa pele, I thought as a Minister, as a Member of Parliament also when the Motion is noticed like it is, you are supposed to prepare pele ga o ka tla mo Palamenteng go nale gore o re nnyaa wa re o tsena o mo Palamenteng, go tswa fa ke gone o tlaabong o boela kwa morago o ya go batlisisa.
We do not have time, I think you are not being honest to batlhophi le botlhe ba ba go reeditseng ba ba go tlotlang ba tsaya gore gongwe fa o le Minister go ka tswa sengwe.

Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kante lona ke eng le sa o baakanye Motion Boko?

Why Dithapelo Keorapetse a sa o baakanye ene mong wa one?

MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable... so much MR KEORAPETSE: Motion o siame fela, ga o tlhoke paakanyo.

MR LELATISITSWE: ...Yandani Boko.


Ke dumela jalo gore rra I did my research around the Motion, ke sone se ke go rayang ke re o mpaletse gore ke tle kwa ntlheng ya gore ke ka o baakanya ke reng, ka gore completely ke tlaabo ke o ntsha gotlhelele mo go se gongwe mong wa sone a se akantseng.

Jaanong ke sone se e leng gore tota I do not want to waste anybody’s time ke re ke baakanya this Motion ka gore completely fa ke ka ntsha se ke se akantseng, gongwe ga se sone se Honourable Keorapetse a se akantseng.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng se o se akantseng?

MR LELATISITSWE: Gongwe ke bo ke re, re ye go lebelela tshenyo e e ntseng e diragala, e re e utlwalelang mo dipampiring kwa BDF.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke eng o sa re Health?

MR LELATISITSWE: O a bona gore now completely ke ntshitse Motion.

In short Mr Speaker, I do not support the Motion.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O gana Motion without researching?

Ao comrade!

MR LELATISITSWE: Jaanong ke sone se ke buang gore a re boele Motion fela kwa morago.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Wa re, you have not researched mme o gana Motion?

O tlaa tshegwa ke batho ba Boteti.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Lefatshe bophara, le ba Mahalapye ba mo tshega.

lotlhe ka MR SPEAKER: Ga ke itse gore nako e e fedileng e fa e le Honourable Boko le Honourable Ramogapi, ke ya ga mang ka gore le kgaopeditse Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona wa Botsogo go bua.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, re ne re go thusa.

Ga o ka ke wa fa motho who has not researched nako Mr Speaker.
MR SPEAKER: Let us have order Honourable Boko!

You will have your slot motlotlegi wa me.

Let us give Honourable Minister responsible for Basic Education the floor.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, o tsenya moDomkrag wa bo five.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga o tlhoke paakanyo, o siame fela.

MR SPEAKER: Rra?
MR SPEAKER: Rra?

28 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tsenya moDomkrag wa bo five.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O supa batho ba robetse, ba bangwe ba sa ipaakanya.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, tsamaiso a e nne teng rraetsho.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, tlotla batho ba bangwe, eish!
Honourable Molale.

MR SPEAKER: Bagaetsho, may we have order!

Go bua Honourable Minister of Basic Education.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

(MR MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION MOLAO): Mr Speaker, ka kopo fa ke leng teng ga ke na network sentle.

Fa o ka mpha five minutes wa tsenya yo mongwe, I will be ready; ka kopo.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

Honourable Minister responsible for Infrastructure and Housing Development.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Ministers fela?

MR SPEAKER: Ema pele Honourable Minister.

Bagaetsho, Ramogapi!

Honourable Moswaane, what is your procedure?

MR MOSWAANE: Procedure.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mongwame, ela tlhoko tse di latelang, tse re di itlwaeditseng thata mo Ntlong e. Fa re bua ka Motions di tshwana le tse, go tsena maDomkrag ka palo ya bone, go tsene opposition ka palo ya bone, mme o kare ga o lekalekanye mongwame to be very honest on this issue.
Ke kopa o lebelele gore a mme o setse tsamaiso ya rona e re e dumalaneng mo Ntlong morago?

Batho ba ba tlhomaganyeng fa e sale Honourable Keorapetse a bua, ke ba o e itseng gore ke bagaeno fela.

Ga ke itse gore a o e bona sentle?

I am sorry to say that.

MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, mme ga o e bone sentle Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Francistown.

Go raya gore Honourable Mthimkhulu o tsene morago ga ga Honourable Morwaeng, ga bo go tsena Honourable Ramogapi.
Fa go tswa Honourable Ramogapi, ga bo go tsena Honourable Lelatisitswe.

Fa go tswa Honourable Lelatisitswe, go tshwanetse go tsena Honourable Molao, a bo a re ga a ipaakanya, ke bo ke bitsa Honourable Molale mme ga a ise a tle mo stage.

Fa Honourable Molale a fetsa, go tsena Dr Gobotswang.

Ga ke itse gore la re ke reng.

Ke yone tumalano e re e dumalaneng.

Ke kopa gore a re e saleng morago le tlogele go nkgoreletsa.

Honourable Minister Molale.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: If I may Mr Speaker.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go tsholetsa fela, ga ke a tshwanela go tsholetsa?

MR SPEAKER: Can we have order please!

Gatweng?

Honourable Moswaane, ke go file nako ya gago tlhe rra o boditse, tlogela ba bangwe ba bue.

INFRASTRUCTURE AND MINISTER OF HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker and good morning.

Ke ema fa go sa dumalana le Motion wa ga Honourable Keorapetse.
Selo sa ntlha fela kwa tshimologong, mma ke bue gore rotlhe re a dumalana gore corruption is a vice; ga e a siama.

Ke selo se se maswe se re sa se rateng rotlhe.

Pharologanyo e fa, ka fa ditsamaisong rona re di bonang ka teng le ka fa Honourable Keorapetse le ba bangwe ba di lebileng ka teng.

You will recall Mr Speaker, gore re nne le Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC) go ne ga nna le Commission ya ga Christie e e neng ya nankola tsotlhe.
E bua gore ka dilo tse di diragetse jaana, go tshwanetse go nne le lekalana la DCEC le ditsamaiso tse di tlaabong di dirwa gore di fokotse kana di nyeletse corruption.

Tumelo ya me ke gore, ka nako e re bua gore go nne le Commission of Enquiry, ga re ise re supe processes, procedures and values around go lwantsha corruption gore di paletswe.
There may be lapses here and there and we can pinpoint to them gore ke tsele gore di baakanngwe, rather than to go into a commission jaaka Honourable Keorapetse a bua.

Ke sone se e reng le fa go kanokwa (measure) corruption, go bo go buiwa ka perception studies.

Perception studies fa di setse di supa gore corruption e kana ka eng, kana pelaelo ya corruption e kana ka eng, the responsible agencies ba dira mo gotweng assignment studies.
Ba tshwanetse go supa gore kwa go neng go lebega o kare the perception index e kwa godimo, re dumalana gore go dirwe jaana le jaana.

Jaanong ga ke utlwe gore a the perception index, has it been countered to the extent by assignment studies mo go ka tweng they have failed.

I am not convinced gore they have failed.

I am not convinced.
This thing, we should be careful ka yone ka gore whenever go engwa go buiwa, ke gore everybody is saying everybody is corrupt and out there on the streets, you are hardening the feels and the 29 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) thoughts tsa batho go dumela gore go a senngwa, when actually it may not be the case.
Therefore, tumelo ya me ke gore, let us be level-headed and minded about the issue ya corruption and tackle it ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.

E seng gore re nne emotional to the extent e e leng gore re bitsa and prompt perception kana tsamaiso ya gore go nne le commissions le tse dingwe.
Selo se sengwe ke kopa gore e nne e re fa re leba dilo mo Botswana, re di lebe in the context of the Botswana setting ka gore ke na le pelaelo, o tlaa intshwarela Honourable Keorapetse fa e le gore I am wrong, gore re batla go dira jaaka re bona ka fa lefatsheng le lengwe go na le commission.

E rile fa e tla, ga bo go supagetse dilo tse dintsi tse di neng di sa nna sentle tse di neng di tshosa.

Jaanong mo Botswana… HONOURABLE Honourable Minister.
MEMBER: Clarification MR MOLALE: …le fa go buiwa jaana, ga ke ise ke utlwe ka tlhamalalo fela gore bokete jo e leng gore support the otherwise not so high index ke eng.

doubt, even in this debate, gore the corruption has run amok to the extent e e leng gore processes tse ke neng re bua ka tsone and the counter processes have failed, gongwe ee, but as it is now I am not convinced.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): On a point of elucidation.
Thank you Mr Speaker, mme e bile ke leboge Motlotlegi Molale ka fa a e tshwereng ka teng.

E bile o e tshwere ...(inaudible)…a bua le ka Ofisi ya ga Mosireletse ka fa e berekang ka teng, mme e bile di bereka di nonofile Mr Speaker.

Mme e bile gape ke bo ke lemoge le komiti ya Palamenteng e gotweng Public Accounts Committee (PAC), e e eteletsweng pele ke Motlotlegi Keorapetse, e e bileng e dirang bontle.
E bile ke lemoga mafoko a ga Motlotlegi Molale gore ga go ise go nne le dikgang tse dintsintsi tse di maswemaswe tse e leng gore a commission can be set.

Ke a go leboga ka mafoko a a kalo ka gore, PAC, komiti ya Palamente, e tshwere sentle.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… HONOURABLE Honourable Minister.

MEMBER: Clarification MR MOLALE: A ke ka bua Mr Speaker?

MR MOLALE: Granted Mr Speaker.

MR MOSWAANE: Clarification.

Thank you Honourable Speaker.

Thank you Minister.


Ke botse Tona gore mongwe motlhalefi a re “a bad system is never wrong fa e dirwa ke batho who benefit mo go yone.” It is never wrong to those who benefit from it.

Fa ke ka go fa sekai; fa e le gore Ministers ba kgonne to benefit kwa komponeng ya Zhauns kwa South Africa, ka projects tsa poverty, go na le corruption e ntsi.

A Ministers ba ka dumalana gore go dirwe a Commission of Enquiry e e tlaa ba epololang fa ba ne ba le teng?

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR MOLALE: Ga go na Minister ope yo e leng gore is above the law.

If there is sekao kana sekai sa gore any Minister has done something that constitutes corruption they must be taken to task.

They must be taken to task.

Fa e le gore gongwe it was reported kana wena you reported ga go tsewe dikgato, you are free as a citizen to pursue the matter.

Jaanong ke sone se re tshwanetseng ra se ela tlhoko seo.
These perceptions fa gongwe they become so overly stated mo e leng gore they kind of leave people with sour tastes in their mouth to believe gore corruption has overwhelmed us, but let us be level- headed Mr Speaker, let us follow the law.

Yes, fa e le gore gongwe it is something that can be proven beyond MR SPEAKER: Please I have been calling on you Honourable Minister.

MR MOLALE: Ee, ke gore o kare jaanong o file ba le bantsi ba ba buang… MR SPEAKER: Ba iphile.
MR MOLALE: Ke sitega go bua, ba le bantsi ba bua at a time.

It is true Honourable Monnakgotla, maloba when we were debating Molao wa Financial Intelligence Act ka bua gore, in this Government right from the Constitution le melao e mengwe there are checks and balances tse di dirang gore fa go nang le tshenyo teng go tsibogwe ka bofefo.
Agility and upness of the institutions tse di leng teng, in this instance jaaka o bua Honourable Monnakgotla, the Auditor General works directly with Parliament, are we then saying, Parliament is not agile and apt enough to respond to what the findings of the Auditor General and any other institution e e leng gore it is meant to enforce these checks and balances are saying?

What are we saying?
What are we saying?

Nnyaa, ga ke dumalane le gore nako le nako e bo re bua ka Commissions of Inquiry ka se le se and yet we as Parliament have all the authority and power to do certain things jaaka Mme Honourable Monnakgotla a bua, re na le PAC.
Re filwe report ya Auditor General e 30 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) e neng e bua dilo tsa COVID-19 purchases, Parliament should be acting on it and not to be coming here and asking for Commissions of Inquiry on corruption.
Fa e le gore there were corrupt people, or mentioned in that report, a the due process e tsewe!

e tsewe because those are some of the checks and balances.

MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Minister!

MR MOLALE: A e tšhaile, thank you.

Ga ke dumalane le Motion o Mr Speaker.

GOBOTSWANG DR (SEFHARE- RAMOKGONAMI): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke emela go ema nokeng mogopolo wa ga Motlotlegi Keorapetse, Mopalamente wa Selebi Phikwe West wa gore go tlhomiwe lekoko le le tlaa lebaganang le gore le lebelele tshenyetso- setšhaba gore e kanankang.

Le go dirisa dithata botlhaswa, le boitsholo jo bo dirwang ke baeteledipele jo bo sa amogelesegeng.

E bile a batla go supa gore, mme lekoko le le tshwanetse gore le bo le eteletswe pele ke Moatlhodi Mogolo.
Moatlhodi Mogolo ka gore jaaka bangwe ba setse ba buile kgang e e bophara, e bile e matswakabele, e ama makgotla a tshenyetso-setšhaba le go gopela itsholelo le Lekgotla la Mosireletsi.

Jaanong e batla motho wa seemo se yo o nang le go reetsa, yo o ka kgonang go go tlhotlhela dikgang gore a tle a di rulaganye sentle kwa bofelong.

Le gore dikgato tse di tswewang e tshwanetse go nna dikgato tsa mofuta mang.
Bagaetsho, ke tsaya gore rotlhe re a dumalana gore tshenyetso-setšhaba jaanong e tsentse tlhako tlhamelong.

Dipalo di a supa, bakaulengwe ba setse ba supile gore go tulwe madi a a nyelela.

Mo billion mongwe le mongwe yo re tsenang mo ditlhabololong P370 Million o a nyelela, mme e le gore o ka nyelela ka ntata ya tshenyetso-setšhaba.
Mo Umbrela for Democratic Change (UDC) mo maitlamong a rona, re ne re supile jalo gore tshenyetso- setšhaba le go dira dilo ka tshokamo, go hirana ka masika le ditsala, ke selo se se jweleletseng mme se ka felela se ama le ditirelo, go fa batho ditirelo.

Ke yone kgang e re neng re e bua.

Bagaetsho kana kgang ke gore, ga re tlhomamise sentle, Honourable Molale o ntse a bua fa a re, ga a tlhomamise sentle gore mme tshenyetso- setšhaba e tona go le kae.
Mme dipalo di supa gore madi a a nyelelang a bo P370 Million for every one Billion, e bile Tona ya Madi, ya ga Goromente wa gagwe, a supile gore tshenyetso- setšhaba e kanaka tlou e ntse ka marago.

Jaanong o ka tswa a bolelela ruri, mme kana maikaelelo a lekgotla le ke gore le tle le nyanyabolole dikgang tse re tle re utlwe gore kgang e e bokete go le kae, gore re tle re e ntshe ka medi, ka gore gompieno jaana re baya thata mo dipegong tsa bobegadikgang tse gongwe di okolang fela fa godimo.
Re baya mo dikgannye tse di felelang di le mo makgotlatshekelong, tse le tsone di ka tswang di okola fela fa godimo.

Jaanong go botlhokwa thata gore tota re tseneleleng kwa teng mo go reng seemo se se ntse jang.

Bagaetsho, kana fa re bua ka tshenyetso-setšhaba e tla ka metlhala e mentsi e e felelang e re senyetsa.

Dikompone tse dingwe di felela di filwe ditiro, tota ditiro tseo di sa di lebana gotwe go jewa sengwe, go jewa sengwe.
Tse dingwe dikompone e le gore ke tse di nang le bokgoni, mme charging Goromente madi a a seng kanaka sepe, Goromente a felela a latlhegetswe ke ditiro.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation!

DR GOBOTSWANG: Hey!

ga gona nako comrade, six minutes o setse fela jaana.
Ditiro tse di fanwang ka botsala, jaaka Honourable Moatlhodi nako ele re santse re na le ene kwa Boipuso, le a gakologelwa gore o ne a eme ka dinao, e bile a tshwerwe ke mowa, a supa gore ditiro tsa Puso di fanwa ka bosika, botsala, di fiwa bana ba batho, e santse e le ene sentle Pono P. P. Moatlhodi re le kwa Boipuso, mme go santse go ntse jalo le gompieno.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, mme ke ntse ke ene Rra Nkamo.
DR GOBOTSWANG: Re bo re iphitlhela re na le ditshenyegelo tse di gakgamatsang le projects tse di felelang mo phefong tsa madi fela a a seng kanaka sepe.

Lebelela Police ya Sebele, e e reng e rile e fela ga e ise e ko e dirisiwe Honourable Lesaso, go fitlhelela gompieno.

Lebelela sekole sa Mphuthe se se neng sa agiwa sa fela ga tloga ga agiwa sekole se sengwe sa Mphuthe Honourable Kablay.
Lebelela dihosetele tsa Moeng tsa matlhatlaganyane tse di agilweng, mme di ise se dirisiwe Honourable Modukanele, la reng ka dikgang tse?

Projects di a phuaganngwa mo tseleng jaaka project e e kwa kgaolong ya me ya Borotsi Clinic, e phuagantswe ka ntata ya tsone dikgang tse.

Jaanong go botlhokwa thata gore re tsenelele kwa teng re bone gore tota mathata a a kana kang le gore tota re ka a rarabolola ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Fa re ne re dirile dipatlisiso tse di tshwanang le tsone tse, re ka bo re ne ra se ka ra nna le 31 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) bothata jwa gore Ministers ga di a tshwanela to tender, tsa dira business le Goromente ka gore go ne go tlaa supagala gore di na le seabe se setona sa gore tenders di abiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
re tshwanetseng gore re di tlhotlhomise, re bone gore golo fa gatwe go diragala jang ka gore re itse ditsamaiso tsa Puso tsa go rulaganya le to prioritise dilo ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Re tshwanetse gore re lebelele gore mme bothata ke eng ka gore institutions di teng jaaka le ntse le bua.

Institutions di ntse di le teng, makalana a ntse a le teng a a farologaneng a Puso a a tshwanetseng go lebagana le dikgang tse.
Honourable Serame a re corruption ya lefatshe le e kana ka tlou e eme ka dinao, institutions di ntse di le teng.

Re tshwanetse gore re di kanoke re bone gore institutions tse tota di bereka jang.

Re kanoke melawana e e leng gore e ka bo e ema nokeng molao one o wa tshenyetso-setšhaba, e e tshwanang le ya bo Declaration of Assets and Liabilities gore Matona, batho ba ba nang le maemo ba supe dithoto tsa bone.
Re tshwanetse gore re e kanoke ka gore re rile re dira molao, re bo re re nnyaa batho ga ba a tshwanela go bona dithoto tsa rona tse re di neetseng yo o di re tshwaretseng e bile fa o ka tshogana ka o ntshitse kgang ya teng, e bile re a go sekisa.
Go bo go raya gore go koafatsa one molao o. Fa re lebelela molao one wa malomatsebe, le one e rile le sena go nna le o dira, e bo e le gore le baya sesana gore nnyaa fa o ka tshogana ka o begile motho, ga felela e le gore o ne o sa bue boammaaruri, go raya gore o a sekisiwa.

Ke tsone dilo tse di tshwanetseng gore di sekasekwe gore mme gone institutions seemo sa tsone ke eng.
Maloba Rraetsho Saleshando o buile kgang e nngwe a re fa o batla go bolaya team, o fetole coaches letsatsi le letsatsi fa team e jewa.

Ke sone se re se bonang mo makalaneng a a lwantshang tshenyetso-setšhaba.

Fa o lebelela lone la Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC), baeteledipele ba lone ba fetolwa letsatsi le letsatsi.

Ba e leng gore ba a tlhotlhomisa, nako e nngwe they are transferred.

Dilo tse di tshwanetse gore di sekasekwe go bonwe gore tota boteng jwa tsone bo kana kang.
Kana go na le kgang ya mismanagement, yone e ya go dira dilo ka tshokamo, ya go dirisa maemo ka tsela e e sa siamang.

Yone e e dingalo ka gore ga se gore dilo tse di dirwang tse e bo di se ka fa molaong mme tota di bo di sa siama e bile di tlodile tsamaiso.

A re tseyeng kgang yone ya gore e bo e le gore go tswa go rekwa Tautona Lodge.

Tautona Lodge e rekiwa e tswa fa kae?

Plans tsone di ne di reng?

E rekilwe ka tsela e e ntseng jang?

Ditsamaiso di tlodilwe.


Jaanong ke tsone ditsamaiso tse 32 A re tseye kgang yone e ya Banyana Farm gore Tautona a bo a ipone fela a ema mo line, le ene a batla polase ya Banyana Farm.

Ke mang yo o ka ganang Tautona a kopa, a re ke kopa polase?

Ke tsone dilo tse di tshwanetseng gore di sekasekwe, re tsenele kwa teng re bone gore dikgang tse tota bothata jwa tsone e ka tswa e le eng.

Jaanong go botlhokwa thata gore re dire jalo batho betsho gore re tlhotlhomise dikgang tse.
tsone lebelele tsa COVID-19, Presidential A re Taskforce.

Batho ba ba feletseng ba le foo e se badirelapuso, ba neetswe ditsamaiso tsa gore ba reke dithoto tsa Puso, go sa itsiwe gore ba di reka ka lefe.

Ke mang yo o neng a tsaya tshwetso ya gore ba bo ba felela ba tsere ditshwetso?

Who is going to account because they are not Accounting Officers, ga se badirelapuso mme go diragetse.
Ke tsone dilo tse re tshwanetseng gore re di tlhotlhomise, re bone gore ke mang yo o neng a tsaya ditshwetso tse, a mme o ne a setse ditsamaiso morago tse di tshwanetseng?

Go na le go koba batho fela ka tsela e e hakgamatsang malatsi a. Nnyaa, batho ba ikobelwakobelwa fela.

Fa e le ba maemo a a kwa godimo bone nnyaa, ga ba a le bona, ga ba nke ba itse gore a kamoso ba a theogela.
Batho ba fetolwa letsatsi le letsatsi ba maemo a a kwa godimo ka ditsela tse di hakgamatsang e bile tse di belaetsang; Lephata la Botsogo lone le le kwa pele.

Ga re itse le gore Permanent Secretary (PS) wa botsogo ke mang as we speak, ba fetolwa ka tsela e go hakgamatsang, Directors of Health Services ba nna ba fetoletswe ruri fela.

Dikgang tse re tshwanetse gore re tsenele kwa teng, lekgotla le le tshwanetse gore le di nyanyabolole, le di ntshetse kwa ntle gore go itsiwe gore go diragala eng.
Batho ba a kobiwa mo maphateng a a okametsweng ke Puso; gompieno Botswana Agricultural Marketing Board (BAMB) ga e na moeteledipele.

Maphata a mantsi ga a na boards, di tlhophiwa ka tsela e e hakgamatsang.

This system is rotten to the core and e tlhokana le commission gore e tle e nyanyabolole dilo tse di tswele mo mpepeneneng gore re tle re itebaganye le tsone.
Badirelapuso ba a kolotiwa, ba ya kwa courts, barutabana, secretaries ba ile kwa court, e ba boleletse gore Goromente o tshwanetse gore a le duele, o a gana, o dira bodipa fela.

Jaanong ke tsone dilo tse re tshwanetseng gore re di leblele.
Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Night-watchmen ba sale ba nnile Goromente a ba kolota, masole ba a kolotiwa, Goromente o a ba itlhokomolosa.

Ke dilo tse di sa siamang Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member for Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

Is the Honourable Minister responsible for Basic Education still too far away?

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION MOLAO): Ke siame Mr Speaker.

(MR MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister Molao, are you available now?

nna Judge kana Mmakaseterata.

Mo Botswana mongwe le mongwe remains innocent until proven guilty.

Le fa e le gore o belaela gore mongwe o tsere dipodi tsa gago, ke molao fela o o tlaa fitlhang o re o di tsere, e seng wena.
Please, a re buisaneng sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O kare o itse gore o rekisa dipodi Mr Speaker.

O dupeletse gore o rekisa dipodi.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le dinamane tsa me di nyeletse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa thuso foo Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: On what point Honourable... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tshireletso.

MR MOLAO: I am available Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Please have your slot.


Before you come on Honourable Minister, let us see what the procedure is about from Honourable Motsamai.

MR MOTSAMAI: Procedure.

Mr Speaker, ke itse gore gongwe potso e ke tlaa e botsang e tloga e kete ga e go tsamaise sentle.

Mr Speaker, a mme gone go siame gore mo kgang e tsile e tshwana le e, re bo re tlogela bontsi jwa batho ba re ba tsayang mo Palamenteng e le babelaelwa ba akgela mo kgannyeng e Mr Speaker, bogolo jang ka kwa Matoneng?
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mmelaelwa wa ntlha ke wena, ka koloi e e ditlhogo di pedi.

Re a e belaela koloi eo gore o e tsere golo gongwe.

MR MOTSAMAI: O supilwe ke mang wena?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Motsamai o batla go isiwa Lobatse wena jaanong.

MR MOTSAMAI: A o mmelaelwa wena?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go akgela babelaelwa fela.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, let us have order please.

MR MOTSAMAI: Ke bao ba a akgela babelaelwa.

MR SPEAKER: A ko o iketle pele tlhe rraetsho.

Ke a go rapela.
Ke a go rapela.

Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Selebi Phikwe Bophirima, o eletsa go bua le nna.

MR KEORAPETSE: Ke kopa thuso fa Mr Speaker, in terms of gore Motion o tsamaya fa kae, when the mover will be called to respond.

MR SPEAKER: We still have a couple of people.

I will let you know motlotlegi.

Re santse re na le dibui di le mokawana, bogolo jang from your side.

Honourable Minister responsible for Basic Education.
MR MOLAO: Mma ke go leboge Mr Speaker, ke bo ke lebogela gore jaaka Rre Motsamai a santse a bua, ke lebogele gore ke tsena morago ga mmelaelwa yo mongwe a sa tswa go fetsa go bua, ke tle ke tsweledise kwa pele.

Kgang e e leng gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker.

MR MOLAO: Ao, ke wena o sa tswang go fetsa go bua?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes sir.

MR MOLAO: Nnyaa, Speaker o ntse a bua.


HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, kana kwa Palamenteng ke nna... MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Sefhare- Ramokgonami.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Honourable Motsamai.

Hei!

ga gona motho yo o borumolano jaaka wena waitse.

Order!

Mo Botswana ga ke itse gore o simolotse leng go DR GOBOTSWANG: Procedure.
Ke nna ke neng ke fetsa go bua Mr Speaker, mo puong e re e tshwereng gompieno... 33 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re o raya Speaker ga a reye wena.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O ne a bua ka nna Mr Speaker.

DR GOBOTSWANG: A tlola a re motho yo o sa tswang go fetsa ke... MR SPEAKER: Order!
Order!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re o raya Speaker ga a reye wena.

MR SPEAKER: Let us have order please!

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ke ne ke utlwa o kare Honourable Molao a re o raya Speaker ga a reye Honourable Gobotswang.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ehe, o ne a raya Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse, please, o motho yo ke mo tlotlang mo go maswe.

Please!

Ke batla go utlwa gore Dr Gobotswang a reng.


DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke ne ke re kana Mr Speaker, fa a re Mopalamente yo o sa tswang go fetsa go bua mo lineup ya gago Mr Speaker, Mopalamente yo o neng a sa tswa go … HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re mmelaelwa, ga a re Mopalamente.

DR GOBOTSWANG: O ne a re ke mmelaelwa.

Ke batla go itse gore o raya ke belaelwa ka eng ka gore ga ke mmelaelwa.

Ga ke itse gore o na le kgang efe e a mpelaelang ka yone Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Botsa Motsamai, ke ene yo o itseng babelaelwa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go ntse go sa bue Gobotswang, go ntse go bua Motsamai.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, Rre Molao o ne a re mmelaelwa yo o sa tswang go fetsa go bua ka fa go rona.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mthimkhulu o buile, ke eng a ipelaela?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Lona ga le a utlwa Fidelis.

He is very clear.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nna ke mo utlwile.

MR SPEAKER: Bagaetsho, let us have order please.


Go a tweng tota, this is Parliament, aa!

Honourable Minister, o ntse o botswa dipotso, bolela gore mmelaelwa ke mang.

O tlogele go bua ka babelaelwa le wena.

MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke tlaleletsa fela mafoko a ga Rre Motsamai a babelaelwa.

Jaanong wena o a feditse gore ga go na mmelaelwa ope mo Palamenteng, e bile ke dumalana le wena gore ga go na mmelaelwa ope.
So ke ne ke fetisa mafoko a ga Rre Motsamai fela a babelaelwa, mme ke sa re ope ke mmelaelwa mo Palameteng e. MR SPEAKER: Please continue with the chapter Honourable Minister.

MR MOLAO: Ke ne ke re Mr Speaker, jaaka re le fa rotlhe, re tshwenyegeile ka tshenyetso-setšhaba le ka fa e leng gore e kokonela itsholelo le lefatshe la rona ka teng.

Ke sone se e leng gore rotlhe re a tshwenyega, e bile re dumalana gore e tshwanetse gore e emelwe ka dinao.
Fela jaaka bakaulengwe ba bangwe ba setse ba buile, Motion wa ga mokaulengwe Rre Keorapetse tota fela ga o a kwalega sentle, o ka bo fela a boela kwa morago a bo a ya go o kwalolola sesha, a o kgaoganya ka ditsetlana tsone tse tharo kana tse nne tse a di beileng fa.

Fa e le gore o batla Motion wa go lebelela corruption, a bo a o dira, and specify gore commission e ye go leba kae.
A bo a tla ka o mongwe o o tlaa buang ka mismanagement, le o mongwe o o tlaa buang ka maladministration le unethical governance.

E bo e le gore commissions tse fa di tlhongwa, they go specifically, ba ya go lebagana le dintlha tse di tlhokegang.

Kana e jaaka go buiwa Mr Speaker, go tshwana fela le batho ba ya letsomong.

‘Tsamayang le ye go tsoma’ e bo e e le gore ba tsamaya fela ba ya go tsoma naga yotlhe, ga ba itse gore a ba tsoma tlou, kobu, mmutla kana eng.
E bo e re kwa morago ba boa, ‘nnyaa, mme re tswa letsomong.’ ‘Le tla le tshotse eng?’ ‘Nnyaa, mmutlanyana ke o, re bolaile mmutla, re tswa letsomong.’ Wena mme morumi wa bone, o ne o batla gore ba ye go tsoma tau ba tle ba e bolaile.

Jaanong ka fa o ntseng ka teng, it is a fishing expedition e e leng gore ga o ka ke wa wela.

Ke sone o bonang re e fa sekai ka kwa Aferika Borwa, it is public knowledge, ka state capture.
State Capture Commission e ne ya re e thamiwa fela go bo go buiwa gore the commission is 34 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) to concern itself primarily with the allegation published in the previous Public Protector, Advocate Madonsela’s Report.
E bo e le gore jaanong commission ya ga Rre Zondo e tsepama mo go reng report e tlile e tshotse eng.

E ne e beetswe nako.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko Rre Zondo o kopile extensions more than three times gore ga ke ise ke fetse nkokeletsang, mme a ne a filwe specific issues to tackle.

Jaanong e ka fa e ntseng ka teng, jaaka bakaulengwe bua, the life of this Parliament e ka ya go fela le yone Commission e ise e wetse tiro.
That is why it is important to be specific gore batho ba tsepame ba ye go leba kwa go tweng ba ye go tlhodumela teng.

Jaanong gone fa fa re latlhela letlowa fela mo lewatleng re re re tshwara ditlhapi, ga re itse gore re tshwara tlhapi e go tweng mang, a o tshwara noga, a o tshwara eng.

Tota fela mokaulengwe, Motion o ga o a o akanyetsa sentle.

MR TSOGWANE: On a point of clarification.


Gongwe o nthuse fa, kana ga re itse se se neng sele mo maikaelelong a the mover of the Motion gore go ne go diragala eng.

A wena ga o bone gore one of the things se motho a ka se belaelang, ke gore Motion o o ntseng jaana, o ya go latlha bosupi gotlhelele?

Ke gore batho ba ya go tsoma kwa go sa tshwanelang gore ba tsomele teng.
Go latlhiwe bosupi jwa dikgang tse di fa pele ga ba ba lebanweng ke ditlhotlhomiso, e le go ba latlhisa bosupi fela, maikaelelo e se gore tota ke go lwantsha yone corruption jaaka go tshwanetse.

MR MOLAO: Tota go ka nna jalo, bosupi bo ka latlhega.

Kana selo sa ntlha barongwa, go tlaabo go raya gore jaanong ba simolole go ipotsa gore gone mme re simolola fa kae.

A re simolola kwa lephateng la ditsela … MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of order.
Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re Mothusa Tautona, with the greatest of respect, is imputing improper motives mo go nna fa a re maikaelelo ame gongwe ene e le gore ke dire gore bosupi bo latlhege kana ke latlhise bosupi jwa dikgang tse e leng gore a re di teng, di fa pele ga makgotla a batlhotlhomise.

He is imputing improper motive mo go nna Mr Speaker.

So ke ne ke kopa gore ka tsweetswee a se ka a dira jalo.

MR SPEAKER: Quote him.

Put the word that is not auguring well with you Honourable Member.
MR KEORAPETSE: The whole import of his contribution is that perhaps this Motion, the intension ke gore bosupi jwa dikgang tse di fa pele ga makgotla a batlhotlhomise bo latlhege.

Ke ba ntshe mo tseleng jaanong ba pursue dilo di sele mme go na le dikgang tse di fa pele ga bone.

Jaanong ka re that is imputing improper motive.

MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, gongwe ga ke a e baya sentle, Rre Keorapetse o bua nnete.

Maikaelelo e ne se go rialo, eo I withdraw.


Maikaelelo e ne e le gore a mme Motion o fa o ka feta o ntse jaana, ga o na go latlhisa batho bosupi ka gore ba tlaabo ba batla shooting in the dark, shooting from the hill.

Ke ne ke re ka rialo, ke ne ke sa reye gore I impute any improper motive mo go the mover of the Motion.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Your Honour.

MR MOLAO: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Rre Keorapetse, being a public administration expert and former lecturer, le yone nnetlane e fela e ka fiwa bana ba a ntseng a ba ruta gotwe tsamayang le ye go kwala thesis kana ke eng ka yone, it will be so convoluted fa e tla mo e leng gore le go tshwaega, ga e ka ke ya tshwaega.
Ke sone se e leng gore tota fela ka tlotlo, re ka bo re mo kopa fa a ne a itetla, just to retreat, go and unbundle this, go bo go nna specific, a bo a tsenya Motion fela o e leng gore go ka tlhamalalwa go iwa kwa go one.

Fa o ne o reeditse the previous speaker Rre Gobotswang, a tshwara kwa, ‘nnyaa, batho ba hirana ka botsala,’ kgantele ‘motho o ne a fodile mo line go kopiwa dipolase kwa Banyana,’ ke gore o a bona gore he is all over the place.
Le yone commission fa re fetisa Motion o ntse jaana, e bo e le gore gatwe e a tlhongwa, they will not even know where to start.

This life of Parliament e ya go fela ba ise ba dire tiro epe.

So to make things easier, batho ba molao ba tlaa bua gore fa gongwe ga go re o dire molao o e leng gore; ba etle ba dirise mafoko ba re ‘it is an impossibility.’ Ke gore le fa go fetisitswe molao, to implement selo sa teng it is an impossibility.
Go felela go boelwa kwa morago gore go ye go baakanngwa gore jaanong o kgone to implement such a decision or such a law.

Jaanong yone e fela e ka tlotlo ke tsaya gore with the concern e e teng, fa e le gore we want to unearth maladministration and unethical governance, let us go straight to that particular point.

Commission e bo e nna le terms of reference tse di buang ka maladministration le unethical governance.

E bo e le gore e a dirwa, e bo e fela, report e bo e tla.
Fa re batla go bua ka yone ya corruption, re bo re nna straight.

Fa o tsaya jaaka gompieno go nna go buiwa ka COVID le procurement ya yone, you can specifically say tsamayang le ye go tlhotlhomisa procurement le 35 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) management ya COVID.
Go bo go nna le clear terms of reference tse batho ba itseng gore re ya go tlhotlhomisa eng.

Ba bo ba go direla tiro, ba tlisa report, botshelo bo bo bo tswelela.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you so much.
Fidel o ise o fete that point ya gore ka fa Motion o o ntseng ka teng, ke ne ke re ke go tlatse gore le batho fela ba ba tlaabong ba tlhomilwe gore ba tsene mo commission, jaaka ke buile la ntlha, ke dumela gore le bone ba ka felela they retire, ba tlogela go sena le fa e le sepe se ba re se beileng pele re le Palamente kana rona ba re emetseng commission.

Golo mo tota ke moka fela o latlhela pin mo letamong, o bo o re mongwe a e batle.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR MOLAO: Ee, tota fela e ntse jalo, o a kgona go bona gore from the Motion, the Honourable Member is concerned about corruption, economic crime, mismanagement, maladministration and unethical governance, it is a concern ya rona rotlhe.

To take them and lump them mo selong se le sengwefela as if ke selo se se tshwanang, ga go thuse Motion.

Fa o ne o di kgaogantse, that is why le fa re ne re ka re re leka to amend it, Standing Orders di ya go re gana.

Ke gone kwa problem e leng teng.


Maloba e rile Rre Tshere a tlisitse Motion ka quarries tsa Mahalapye, re ne ra bua gore ga o a kwalega sentle.

He retreated and said, nnyaa mme ke ya go o baakanya.

I have seen he noticed it jaanong a lekile go o baakanya go ya ka fa dikgakololo di neng di tla ka teng.

Le nna ke ne ke dumela gore le wena you can be magnanimous and retreat and go back o ye go baakanya Motion gore re tle re kgone go thusana go ya kwa pele.
Fa o ntse jaana, o re pateletsa gore re o gane, mme gongwe re ne re sena maikaelelo a go o gana.

Tota fela ke yone e ke neng ke re ke e submit Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tlaa tsisa wa gago sir.

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): Procedure.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re kana the mover of the Motion, ke motho yo ke itseng a reetsa thata, a e ne e se gore o mo fe sebaka.
Kana gongwe le wena o kare ka tsela nngwe, ga o mo neele sebaka, o batla go busetsa Motion kwa morago.

Ke raya morago ga dikgakololo tse di ntseng di fiwa, ke itse e le motho yo o ka reetsang thata.

Ga se gore o mo fe sebaka a tle a… HONOURABLE MEMBER: There is no procedure Mr Speaker, re jelwa nako, we want to debate.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Kekgonegile.

There is no procedure in what you are saying, I regret you are wasting our time.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…kwa morago ke Minister who attends Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) mme Botswana e sa qualify e le ene Minister fela gone koo.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse please.

OF TRANSPORT MINISTER AND COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, gongwe kana jaanong re tlaa felela e kete re touta kgang e le nngwe, re supa matshwenyego a le mangwe, mme gone motho o tshwanetse gore a a ntshe, a a gatelele.
Tota le nna ga ke ka ke ka ganetsa gore re tshwanetse rotlhe re bo re tshwenyegile ka seemo sa tshenyetso-setšhaba, mme e bile e tshwanetse gore e lejwe e bonwe gore e a rejwa, re bona gore re a e lwantsha.

Tota le nna Motion o go o lebeng ga me, ke fitlhetse e le gore tema e e segilweng e bophara jo bo tona mo ke ipotsang gore tiro e e ya go rulaganngwa jang, e ya go wela leng… HONOURABLE MEMBER: On that point… MR SEGOKGO: Sorry?
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke re on that point, ke ne ke kopa go go botsa sengwe se… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Keorapetse, you go through the Speaker if you want to say anything, you do not just interrupt you colleague like that.

MR KEORAPETSE: My apology Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: What is your point?

MR KEORAPETSE: I wanted to clarify fa a ntetla, ke tlaa nna bofefo Honourable Segokgo.
Perhaps it is a point e ke neng ke akantse gore Tona yo o tshwanang le Honourable Fidelis Molao kana Honourable Mthimkhulu o ka lemoga ntlha e. What is common about the four issues that I have raised mo Motion o; corruption, economic crime, maladministration, mismanagement and unethical governance?

What is common about these things?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: There is no procedure.

MR SEGOKGO: Sorry?
MR SEGOKGO: Sorry?

36 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) MR KEORAPETSE: Ke ne ke re what is common about them?

MR SEGOKGO: What is common about corruption, economic crime, mismanagement le maladministration, ga ke itse gore a karabo e nngwefela ya gore se se di tshwaraganyang ke eng.
Ke tsaya gore… MR KEORAPETSE: Good governance, that is the import of the Motion.

MR SEGOKGO: Honourable Keorapetse, kana ke ne ke bua gore tema e bophara, ga ke itse gore a o ne o leka go senosa mo matshwenyegong a ke nang le one gore tema e bophara.

Tla ke itlhalose Honourable Keorapetse gore ke eng ke na le matshwenyego a ke reng re segile tema fela e e bophara, e ke ipotsang gore tiro ya teng e ya go simologa e tsamaisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, e ya go tsaya sebaka se se kae, e wela jang.
Tota le nna ke ne ke na le kakanyo e e reng gongwe ntlha nngwe e e neng e gwetlhile gore o dire Motion o, ke go leba ka fa go neng go diragala ka teng kwa Aferika Borwa, mme go na le commission e e neng e tlhomilwe ya ga Zondo.

Tota Honourable Molao o ne a ntsha dingwe dintlha tse le nna ke neng ke lekile gore ke di sekaseke.

E bile ke ka di baakanya fela ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, kana ya ga Zondo, extensions tse ba neng ba di kopiwa di tlhano.
E ne e setse e dirisitse madi a a kana ka bo P1 billion, ke sa reye gore ke batla go gatelela thata mo go reng madi ao ka tsela nngwe a ne a senngwa.

Se ke lekang gore tota ke se supe ke gore kana rotlhe jaaka re ntse jaana, re na le megopolo ya gore tshenyetso-setšhaba e fa kae, le eng.

Dikai di dintsi tse di neng di ntshiwa ke bo Honourable Gobotswang.
Ke ka tsaya gongwe ke lebile fa ke berekelang teng, go na le gore gangwe le gape, go buiwe ka one Matona gore re na le go itsenya mo tsamaisong ya theko ya ga Goromente.

Selo se ke lekang go supa gore gongwe fa Motion o itebaganya le ntlha e e ntseng jaana, e simolola gore e betle tema e le wena o kgonang go bona gore keletso ke go sekaseka eng sentle.
Le nna ke lebile gore, gape ke ntse ke tsaya sekai fela sa fa ke direlang teng, gongwe matshwenyego a mantsi a re nang nao a amana le dikonteraka, go dira ditiro tsa tsone le gone jaaka ke bua, mo procurement ya tsone.

Ke kile ka leka go ipha nako ke kopane le ba ba tlhotlhomisang ba leba dilo tse… MR MOSWAANE: Clarification.

Ke ne ke re a o a lemoga gore ka Setswana gatwe Matona ba itoma diteme mo kgannyeng e?

Ke eng se se bosula gore Tshutiso e bereke?


A re sekasekang go bona gore re jewa ke eng ka corruption, fa le gore go tlaa tsaya two kana three years, molato wa teng ke eng ka gore ke sone se se beileng lefatshe le mo mathateng mo nakong ya gompieno?

MR SEGOKGO: Tla ke leke go go araba, ga re itome diteme, ga ke bone ke itoma diteme ka gore le nna e bile tota gongwe fa go ne go ka sekasekiwa, ga lebelelwa gore re itshunya fa kae mo procurement, ke bona go ne go ka re thusa.
Ke tlhola ke utlwa fela re marwa ka mafoko a a buang gore re tsene mo dilong tse re sa tshwanelang go di tsena, mme ka kitso ya me, ke itse gore ga re dire jalo.

Honourable Moswaane, re tshwanetse gore re sekegele nako e tiro e e ka diragalang ka yone.

Go botlhokwa ka gore ga re ka ke ra simolola selo, re sa itse gore re ya go tsaya nako.

Se tlisa policies, programmes le diphetogo tsa molao tse Honourable Keorapetse a di batlang.
Ke bona e le selo se se botlhokwa, re ka se ka ra sega tema ya selo se re sa se itseng, re sa itse gore se tlaa wela leng.

Ke sone se re buang gore a re baakanyeng Motion o, gore tema ya teng e kgone gore e tle e itshupe sentle, e tlhaloganyesege sentle.

Ga ke dumalane le wena fa o supa gore mo ke go itoma diteme sir.

Ke dumela thata gore se se neng se ka dirwa, e ne e ka nna tshekatsheko, re lebile makalana a re reng a teng.

Gore tota makalana a, a tlhaela fa kae go fitlhelela maduo a re a eletsang?
Ke gore gongwe Motion o o ne o ka ipopa ka go lebelela gore mo makalaneng a a leng teng, re lebile Auditor General reports, Directorate on Corruption and Economic Crime (DCEC), sepodise le Bosekisi, ke fa kae fa go tlhaelang mo melaong ya bone, mo bodireding and resources tsa bone, se se ba paledisang gore tota ntwa e ba e lwe ba e fenye.
Golo gongwe se ke se dumelang gape ke gore, se re buang ka sone se thata gore fa gongwe o se epolole, re sa fetole se ke tlaa reng ke ngwao (the culture) le dithuto, mme ke selo se re tshwanetseng re se lwantshe re itse gore se ya go tlhoka gore, thuto tota e simolole kwa moding, kwa go thaegeng le go bopa setšhaba sa rona.
Maduo a tle e nne a sennelaruri, ka gore selo se se teng ke gore fa o tsentse mo ngwao mo mothong, e e dirang gore selo se a se ka a se letla, a se ka a se bona se siame, se jwalelela mo morafeng, ke gone re tlaa kgonang gore re fenye seemo se.

Selo se re lekang go se lwantsha batho betsho, ke selo se se diragalang bogolo jang fa gare ga batho ba babedi, ba ba batlang go dira bofitlha.
Ke bona ka fa re neng re ntse re gata ka teng, le molao o re neng re o fetisa mo Palamenteng bosheng, wa go lebelela gore fa go na le mabaka a a letlang, go kgone gore mo ditlhotlhomisong go tsewe bosupi go reeditswe dipuisanyo tse di ntseng jaana.

Ke bona e ntse e le dingwe tsa dilo tse di thusang go lwantsha seemo sa tshenyetso-setšhaba.
37 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) Jaanong tota se ke neng ke batla go se gatelela ke gore, fa e le gore ka tsela nngwe Honourable Keorapetse le ene o ne a lebile a bona gore go bapa le rona go ne go na le commission, a re lebe gore commission e morago fa e nne e fiwa ditetla le ditemana tse di tlhamaletseng gore, tema ya lona ke e, a re boneng fela gore e tsere sebaka se se telelele se se kae, ya bo ya dirisa madi a a kae, e bile le molelwane o ba neng ba o segelwa wa bofelo wa 31st December ba o tlodile.
Ke gone ba neng ba ntsha report mo go January.

E nngwe e kete e ne e ntse e tswa kwa February jaana fa ke sa fose.

Kopo ya me ke gore kana commission fa e sa rulaganngwa, e sa beelwa sentle gore tema ya yone ke eng, yo mongwe o tlaabo a tla a bua ka dikgang tsa lefatshe, yo mongwe kamoso a tla a bua ka dikgang tsa …(Inaudible)… yo mongwe a tla a bua ka tshenyetso- setšhaba ya Matona.
Go batla gore Motion o o nne ka tsela e o thusang ba ba tlaabong ba filwe tiro, ba kgone ba itse gore ba itebagantse le tsetlana efe, ba reetsa ofe mo mabakeng a ba tlaabong ba a romilwe.

Mr Speaker, mafoko a me ga a maleele.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ke tlaleletsa mo go bone ba ba kopang gore a o ne a ka se ka a dira dipaakanyo, a ya go di sekaseka tse di ka batlang gore a supe gone fa matshwenyego a gagwe a magolo a leng teng, go tle go lebelelwe teng foo, tema e tle e nne gongwe e e ka kgonagalang.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Go ya go bua Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Kgaolo e e tsenyang Boro, Senonnori, le Matlapana, Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba, ke sebaka sa gago sir.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, kana re bua ka Motion o lebaganye le dintlha di le mmalwanyana, mme konokono ya teng e le tlhoko tsamaiso sentle ka fa ditirong le ka fa itsholelong.

Maikaelelo e le go baakanya gore a lefatshe tsamaiso ya lone e nne sentle.
Bakaulengwe ba bua thata ka gore ga go a salwa tsamaiso sentle, go gotlhagotlhanwa le molao, e bile re kopa kwa South Africa.
Kana Commissions of Enquiry Act ya re ke thata ya ga Tautona, mo go rayang gore fa Tautona a na le thata mo bakaulengweng, Palamente ga e a tshwanela gore e kare Tautona, mo dithateng tsa gago tse o nang le tsone, rona re le Palamente, re le another organ ya ga Goromente, re akantse e bile re tsaya tshwetso ya gore as we provide checks and balances re bona dilo di sa tsamaye sentle, mme gore re di tlhamalatse gore di tsamaye sentle, ke gore re dire jaana.
Ga go thona gore fa o lebelela kwa bakaulengweng kwa Domkrag, a bo mo go ka tweng ke bone Mapalamente tota, the backbench e beilwe kwa morago, ba ba sa tlang go sireletsa Cabinet kana Puso, ba ba tshwanelwang ke gore ba bo ba le fa ba tla go sireletsa setšhaba le lefatshe, e bile gape ba tlisa megopolo ya batho ba e tsaya kwa, go bua Cabinet fela, Cabinet e tlisa mogopolo wa ga Goromente ka fa Goromente a bonang dilo ka teng.
Ke gore ga e ka ke ya re re leka go tsibosa Goromente gore ga o dire sentle jaana, a bo Goromente ka boene ke ene fela a buang, ba bangwe ba ba tshwanelwang ke gore ba ka bo ba tsibosa bone ga ba bue.

Ke gore Cabinet is defending Cabinet in Parliament.

MR HIKUAMA: Clarification.

Ke a leboga Honourable Member.

O e tshwere sentle Honourable Kekgonegile.


Maabane jaana fa Tona wa Madi a bega pego ya gagwe, o ne a supa fa bothata jwa lefatshe la Botswana go atlega le go direla Batswana ditiro, ke corruption.

Ke mo a go bitsang “the elephant in the room.” Matona otlhe fa a bua ba bua ka corruption, batho botlhe fa ba itlhotlhora dilo gore ke eng di sa dirwe ba bua ka corruption.
Jaanong batho fa ba na le tshono ya gore re nne le lekoko le le tlaa sekasekang corruption le gore e tlaa lwantshiwa jang, o bona gore ke eng se se dirang gore ba e gane, ba ntse ba e supa e le jone bolwetse jo bo ba paledisang go dira ditiro mo lefatsheng la Botswana?

Ke a leboga.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki.

Re na le mathata a matona Honourable Hikuama, a gore Cabinet has turned this Parliament into a partisan Parliament, e dikeletso tsa setšhaba e seng konokono ya se se buiwang fa.
Gore mang o tsile ka mogopolo o o ntseng jang, ke yone konokono ya gore a Palamente e tlaa dumela kana ga e na go dumela.

Ke jone bothata jo bo leng teng.

Ke sone se o bonang e le Cabinet fela e e buang, e se Mapalamente.

Mo gongwe gape ke gore kana fa o bua ka corruption mo Botswana, o bua ka itsholelo e e tsamaisiwang ke Goromente.

Itsholelo e e tsamaisiwang ke Goromente, e tsamaisiwa thata ka fa Cabinet.
O ka nna wa fitlhela e le gore fale le fale fa go nang le bothata teng, bangwe ba bone ba a amega.

Jaanong, ba tshwanelwa ke gore ba itshireletse kana ba sireletse ba ba ka tswang ba amega fale le fale.

It is not in the interest of the country.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarity Honourable Kekgonegile.


38 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 12:31 p.m. until Monday 21st February, 2022 at 2:00 p.m. MR KEKGONEGILE: Bakaulengwe, ga re 10 minutes o monnyennyane.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Just a minute.


HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: May we have order please!

Ke batla go utlwa gore... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Member, tswelela KK.

MR SPEAKER: Let us have order!

Ke batla go utlwa gore Motlotlegi Kekgonegile a reng, o ne o reng?

MR KEKGONEGILE: Ke ne ke re 10 minutes o monnyennyane.

Ke bagaetsho ba ke tsalwang le bone.

Mma ke ba time tlhe letsatsi leno, ke lwantshe 10 minutes o batho ba Modimo.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: O neele Honourable Motaosane fela, clarity Honourable Kekgonegile.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Ke tlaa go fa fa pelenyana Taosi, ke tlaa go fa fa pelenyana swaare.

Mr Speaker, fa re bua ka corruption, re lebelela thata dintlha di ka nna tharo.

Re lebelela thata kwa Office of the President (OP), direct appointment le ditlamorago tsa yone gore fa o supa motho ka monwana gore ke ene a tsamaisang tiro, o dirile eng go mo supa?
Se Motion o o se buang ke gore, a mme ka fa re dirang ka teng, go supa batho ka monwana, a ke gone mo go siameng kana ga go a siama.

Re lebelele dilo tse.

Fa e le gore ga go a siama, re leke go go tokafatsa, ke sone se Motion o, o se buang.

What is the international best practice ka go tsaya procurement o e isa kwa OP?

A mme ke gone ka fa re tshwanelwang ke gore itsholelo ya rona e ka gola ka teng fa re tsaya ditsamaiso re di isa kwa OP?

A mme... SPEAKER: Order!

Order!


Motlotlegi MR Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba... MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: … intshwarele mokaulengwe wa me.

Standing Order 26.1 empowers me at this juncture to call upon His Honour, the Leader of this House to move a Motion of adjournment as it is now 12:30 p.m. MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, on that note ya batsalwa le nna, ke tlaa kopa gore Ntlo e batlotlegi, e tle e ye kwa bokhutlong.
39 Hansard No 205Friday 18th February, 2022COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE NATURE AND EXTENT OF CORRUPTION, ECONOMIC CRIME, MISMANAGEMENT, MALADMINISTRATION AND UNETHICAL GOVERNANCE IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS-Motion (Resumed Debate) HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 40 Hansard No 205