Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697707277001.pdf (Botswana)
EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) WEDNESDAY 26 JANUARY 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 204 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Ms K. Kokoro - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.

Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS EMERGENCY MEETING (FINANCIAL ACTION TASK FORCE (FATF) BILLS) WEDNESDAY 26 JANUARY, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) GOVERNMENT BILLS Movable Property (Security Interests) Bill, 2021 (No.

49 of 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate)..................................................................................................................1-32 Trust Property Control Bill, 2021 (No.
37 of 2021) Second Reading..............................................................................................................................................33-44 Societies Bill, 2021 (No.
38 of 2021) Second Reading...............................................................................................................................................45-47 Wednesday 26th January, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Honourable Members, can we switch on our videos so that we can take care of the quorum.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, good afternoon.


Let us start our business of today with the Second Reading of the Movable Property (Security Interests) Bill, 2021 (No.

49 of 2021).

MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021) Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: The Bill is resuming.

When the House adjourned yesterday Honourable Regoeng was on the floor debating and he was left with 14 minutes 54 seconds.

Mokwena, the floor is yours.


MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Maabane re kgaogane ke le mo go yone Tshutiso e, mme e le gore ke ne ke eletsa go bua ke re tota molao o o maleba e bile o tlile sentle jaana fa ke simolotse ke bolela.
Fa ke neng ke le teng, ke ne ke bua gore kana fa re bua ka molao o, e ne e le gore bontsi jwa nako ka nako e e fetileng, batho ba ne ba sa kgone go bona loans kgotsa go tsaya dikoloto go ithusa mo dikgwebong tsa bone ke lebaka la kgang ya collateral e re e tlwaetseng ka go nna re re security.

Bogolo jang re lebile bagwebi ba ba botlana ka gore ke bone ba ba neng e kete ba ka fa mosing ka gore ga ba na dithoto tse di ikemetseng ka bonosi (fixed assets).
Tse ba nang le tsone ke dithoto tse re di bitsang movable.

Re dumela gore fa e le gore re nna le molao o o tshwanang le o o ntseng jaana, jaanong le bone ba tlaa nna le seabe sa gore ba kgone gore fa ba eletsa go tsaya dikoloto kwa dibankeng, ba bo ba ka dirisa dithoto tse ba nang le tsone ka gore molao o o atolositse.
A e ka nna dithoto tsa leruo, ditswatemong, dikoloi kgotsa le tsone dikitso tsa motho tse re di bitsang re re intellectual property, dilo tse di ka dirisiwa e le gore o beeletse ka tsone gore o tle o kope sekoloto kwa o se kopang teng, gore o tle o kgone gore le wena o ithuse.

Ke batla go bua se Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, gore kana re na le dibanka tse di farologanyeng kana financial institutions tse di farologanyeng tse dingwe ke tse di thusiwang ke Puso kana di bereka di le ka fa tlase ga Puso.
Dibanka di tshwana le bo National Development Bank (NDB), Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), Botswana Savings Bank (BSB) jalojalo, re bo re nna le tse di ikemetseng ka nosi tse re tlwaetseng go di bitsa re re commercial banks.

Ke eletsa gore ke kope gore the commercial banks le tsone di nne le seabe.
E se ka ya re re dira molao o, re bo re re movable di dirisiwe go beeletsa, batho ba ikopele ka tsone, e bo e kete jaanong re lebile fela tsone tse ke neng ke di bua tse ke reng di tlhomilwe ke Puso.

A le commercial banks di nne le seabe so that re tle re atolose, re ntsifatse batho ba ba eletsang gore le bone ba ikopele madi ba simolole dikgwebo.
Re se ka ra baya fela mo go reng tse di beilweng tsa Puso, ke kope, le ene Minister gore jaaka fa a ntse a tsweletse a re ba a bua, a leke go gatelela kgang eo gore le bone ba nne le seabe fela se se tseneletseng gore ba kgone gore ba thuse Batswana gore ba tle ba intshe mo lehumeng kgotsa ba ipatlele ditiro ka fa go ntseng ka teng.
Ke tsena mo go e nngwe Mr Speaker, ya gore kana keletso ya molao o ke gore go nne le mo re go bitsang re re Collateral Registry Office, ke mogopolo o montle fela thata gore go nne le ofisi so that dilo di bereke go itsiwe gore di berekela mo ofising efe.

Kana fa gongwe fa re bua, o fitlhela e ka re re remeletse thata re lebile Gaborone.
Ke kope gore a ofisi ya mofuta o o ntseng jaana, di kgone gore di nne teng in other centres like bo Molepolole gore batho ba Molepolole le bone ba kgone gore fa ba batla dithuso ka fa ba ka di batlang ka teng, e bo e le gore diofisi tsa mofuta o o ntseng jalo, di gaufi le bone gore di ba thuse, di ba gakolole le bone di bo di ba rute gore go tshwanetse gore go dirwe ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

E se ka ya ganelela fela mo Gaborone le mo ditoropong.
Di tswele kwa ntle kwa bathong gore le bone ba tle ba bone gore ba ka thusiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ntlha e nngwe e ke batlang go feta ka yone Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo, ke ya gore kana this registry e ya go nna gantsi e le electronic …(Interruptions)… MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification.

Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, good afternoon sir.

Le wena ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Molepolole Bokone.
Ntlha e o reng diofisi tse di ntshiwe fa di isiwa kwa Molepolole 1 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) gore batho ba se ka ba sotlega, akere ka gore temana e e ntšha, fa o re Molepolole, o raya dikgaolo tsotlhe fa go kgonagalang teng, e se ka ya isiwa kwa Molepolole fela, e isiwe lefatshe ka bophara?

Ke a leboga sir.

MR REGOENG: Tanki rraetsho.


E simolole kwa Molepolole kana ke sone se o neng o utlwa ke bua ke re major centres tsa lefatshe la rona la Botswana.

Jaanong kana Molepolole ke ene fela yo o ka simololang e le ene a pilot office go bona gore it operates ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Akere mo Gaborone gone re a tlhomamisa gore e tlaabo e le teng, mme jaanong kwa Molepolole go gaufi, e tlaabo e le gore e ka tsamaya ya ya teng.
Tsone di ka gasama le setšhaba sa rona sa Botswana ka gore re eletsa gore Batswana botlhe ba nne le tshono ya go dirisa molao o le thulaganyo e e mo molaong o gore matshelo bone a tle a tokafale.

Kgang e nngwe e ke neng ke batla go tsena mo go yone Mr Speaker ke ya gore, kana dilo tse re ya go di dira re dirisa maranyane gantsigantsi.

Kgang e a ya internet connectivity jaaka kwa Molepolole, it is still a challenge.

Ke kopa gore lephata le le lebaganyeng le dikgang tse, ba tsiboge.
Mo dibekeng tse di feta tse ke ne ile dikoleng tse di kwa Molepolole about 10 of them, tsotlhe fela Puso e ba baakanyeditse le bone ba bo ba senka computer labs.

Mathata a matona a gore ba bo ba sa dirise those labs le computers tse di teng, ke connectivity ya internet.

O fitlhela go tsentswe cables fela ke ba ba di tsentseng ba bo ba di tlogela.

Tse dingwe gatwe di na le six months, tse dingwe gatwe di sale di tsenngwa late 2020, ba sale ba tewa gotwe re tlaa tla go di baakanya re bo re feleletsa.
Jaanong ke kopa lephata le, ke dumela gore ke la ga Rre Segokgo kana Dr Letsholathebe ke re, a go tsibogelweng dilo tse ka gore tota boammaaruri fa gongwe re tlaa tla ka melao e e tshwanetseng e e tshwanang le yone e e ntseng jalo, le Batswana ba leka go iteka fa ba itekang teng mme fa o tla mo dintlheng tse dingwe o fitlhela go saletse kwa morago mo e leng gore tota ka boammaaruri go re baya ka fa mosing.

Mr Speaker, ga ke batle go nna moleele mo kgannyeng e, tota ke dumela gore… MR TSHERE: Clarification.
Thank you very much Honourable Speaker.

Sorry Mopalamente wa Molepolole North, ke utlwile o bua sentle lantlha fale ke go tlhaloganya fa o bua ka Bill e, le ka fa e tlaa thusang Batswana ka teng.

Re a itse gore go ntse go ganwa bo dikoloi go ka dirisiwa kwa bankeng as immovable properties.

Go na le ba pawn shops ba bone ba ntseng ba e amogela, jaanong o kgothatsa thata ba dibanka gore ba e amogele.

E se ka ya nna molao fela re o amogetse mo Palamenteng, mme bone gongwe ba bo ba sa o kgatlhegele.
Re ya go dira jang gore re bone gore ba dibanka gongwe le bone ba kgatlhegele thulaganyo e thata jaaka ba pawn shops gore Batswana ba tswe from the pawn shops jaanong ba tle ba deal ka interests tse di kwa tlase kwa dibankeng?

O e atolose gone foo, tanki.

MR REGOENG: Ke dumela gore dipuisanyo le go tlhaloganya gore re dira eng ke selo se se botlhokwa.

Ba dibanka ba tshwanetse go tlhaloganya gore molao o tota o direletswe go thusa Batswana, ka gore le bone ba fano gore Batswana ba tle ba ba thuse.
Motswana o a tle a re “mabogo dinko a a thebana,” a e re jaaka fa Batswana ba ba thusa ba berekela mo go bone le bone ba bone gore ba ka thusa Batswana ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ke dumela gore Lephata la Finance ba tsweletse ka go nna ba buisana le bone go ba lemotsha selo se, ba tlaa dira jalo le bone ba tlaa lemoga.

Ba se ka ba baya fela mo go reng ba batla go dira profit e bo e le sone se ba se tletseng.

A ba dire profit yes ka gore ba mo kgwebong, mme ba bo ba dira jalo ba thusa Batswana.
Ke tsaya gore fa go na le dipuisanyo tse di ntseng jalo Honourable Tshere, go tlaa ya teng.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re molao o o lebanye ka gore maikaelelo tota ke yone kgang e ya go lwantsha kgang e Batswana ba ntseng ba na le bothata ka yone ya go beeletsa e bong collateral.

Fa go ka dirwa jaaka o beilwe mo pampiring, ke tsaya gore o ka sologela Batswana mosola fela thata.
Jaaka maabane ke ne ke tlhalosa ke re tsholofelo ya me ke gore fa molao o o ka dirisiwa jaaka o ntse, we are likely to see an increase and access to gravity and financial inclusion e re tlholang re ntse re bua ka yone nako le nako, especially mo Small, Medium and Micro Enterprises (SMMEs), ka gore ke bone bontsi jwa nako ba beilweng ka fa mosing.

Le gone golo mo go le nosi it is going to increase productivity and participation mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la Botswana.
Ke dilo tse re di lebileng ka fa tlase ga molao, not only that, increase financing and …(Inaudible)… le gone go tla ya teng ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Le tsholo ya kgwebo fela e bo e ya kwa godimo, batho ba bo ba simolola ba direlwa ditiro.

Golo mo go le nosi fela it is going to stimulate self-employment le private sector growth e re le Goromente re lelang ka yone gore a ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi ba nne teng.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ya kwa pheletsong, kana molao o ga o a itebaganya le tsone dintlha tse ke ntseng ke di nankola fela.

Re a 2 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) gakologelwa gore Mme Serame e leng Tona ya Madi, o ne a re bolelela mo bekeng e gore dingwe dintlha tse ba lekang gore molao o o di dire, ke gore compliance ya rona le ba Financial Action Task Force (FATF) jaaka ba ne ba bua gore re santse re saletse kwa morago, ke dintlha dingwe tse re lekang gore compliance ya rona e nne complete.
Re se ka ra fitlhela re saletse kwa morago, ka gore boammaaruri jotlhe fela batlotlegi, le tlaa dumalana le nna gore re le lefatshe to be associated with money laundering and financing of terrorism, is a bad thing.

Ga re ka ke ra eletsa gore re tswelele go ntse ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, ka gore this has far reaching repercussion e e leng gore fa re ka tsena koo re ya go fitlhela re le mo mathateng.
Maikaelelo ke gore molao o jaaka o beilwe gore e nne dintlha dingwe tse di dirang to be part of completing of our assessment ya compliance, a o tswelele o ntse ka tsela e e ntseng ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga ke na dikgang tse di ka fetang tse ke di buileng, ka gore boammaaruri ke gore molao o o maleba e bile o ya go sologela Batswana ba bantsi bogolo jang ba ba kwa tlase mosola fela thata.
Ka one mabaka a ke sa tswang go a bua Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, I support this Bill and I plead gore re fetse o tle o fete.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Tanki Mr Speaker, re dumedise batlotlegi, re dumedise setšhaba ka kakaretso.

Re rialo re re kana re mo lebelong la Bills di le 16 tse gotweng re di dire mo malatsing a le 10.

Ke lone lebelo la go siana fela re sa kgone go tlhaloganya gore a mme productivity e tlaa nna teng.
Gompieno re a bo re le mo lebelong la Immovable Properties Bill 2021, e e buang gore ammaaruri dingwaga tse di kanakana tse, tse re ntseng re beile setšhaba ka fa mosing ditshwanelo tsa bone, re ba itsa go ka bona botshelo ka ditsabone, re ntse re dira phoso.

Kana se se buiwang ke Bill e ke sone seo gore, re kgamile batho lebaka le le leele, ke nako ya gore re phutholole matshelo a batho.
E le boammaaruri go ntse jalo gore, kana sengwe le sengwe se o nang le sone o tshwanelwa ke go se dirisa ka fa se ka go sologelang molemo ka teng gore o tokafatse botshelo jwa gago.

Lebaka le le leele re ntse re ganeletse mo theories tsa bo a car is a liability and not an asset, go raya gore gompieno bangwe ke ba mo lebakeng le le kana le re ntseng re bua re re kana mme ditsompelo tsa motho di tswa kwa le kwa, dilo tse a nang le tsone o ka di dirisa gore o ka tshela.
Fa ba re utlwile mo nakong ya gompieno, ke go leboga Modimo fela, e seng bone, ke go leboga Modimo gore a bo a rothiseditse lesedi.

Tsamaiso ya itsholelo kana ya kgwebo mo lefatsheng la Botswana, e ganeletse thata ka fa bagwebing gona le ka fa badirising ba dikgwebo kana customers.

Ke jaaka re ne re bona ka 2011, 2010 fa go na le an economic meltdown, re bona dibanka tsa rona mo Botswana di dira historic profits.
Worldwide ba ne ba ipotsa gore naare kwa ga rona go tla jang gore ga bo gotwe go na le economic meltdown worldwide, mme dikgwebo tsa lefatshe la rona tsone di tsweletse di dira profits fela tse di kwa godimo.

Ke fela gore tsamaiso e ntse e ganeletse mo go beyeng baji-bareki ka fa mosing, mme bagwebi bone profits and interest rates di le kwa godimo fela thata.
Motho o ka ipotsa gore gone mme fa go buiwa ka effectiveness and enforceability of security agreements, a mme e tlaa lebelela gore bagwebi le bone kana ba na le ditshwanelo, kana e ya go gobelela fela jaaka re ne re bona dibanka di gobelela fa go na le economic meltdown, batho ba sena letseno mme dibanka tsone di re rates di gone fela foo tlisang mo e leng ga rona, ga gona gore re ka reng.
Fa motho a lebile Bill e, se a ka se tsayang a re se tshwanetse re lebile matshelo a batho kwa gae, kwa metseng e mebotlana, kwa merakeng le masimong, ke fela gore there is an inclusion of agricultural produce mo Bill e. That in itself is a welcome development, kana re bua ka dijwalo tsa nosetso ya komelelo le ya nosetso.

Re bua ka dijwalo tsa nosetso, leruo, dikoko jalo le diphologolo tsa naga tse motho a kgonang go di rua.
Ke gore ke matshelo a rona fa re lebile ka fa re tshelang ka teng kwa Bokone Bophirima, e bile gape re lebile ka fa batho ba tshelang ka teng.

More than 70 per cent ya population ya lefatshe la rona e tshela ka matshelo a naga.

Fa re a tsentse re re matshelo a gago a naga o kgona gore o ka itirisetsa wa bona madi a a ka oketsang se o se dirang, mo go felelang go tokafatsa matshelo a gago, is a welcome development.
Mo go rayang gore fela balemi barui, dikompone tse di lebaganeng le tsone bo agriculture jalo, dikoporase tse di lebaganyeng le temothuo, kwa ga rona ka e bile re tshela thata ka Trusts tse di lebaganyeng le diphologolo tsa naga, ba kgona gore ba ka dirisa se ba se solofetseng gore se ka nna teng le fa e le ngwaga o o tlang kana mo dingwageng tse di tlang, gore ba kgone go bona letseno le le ka tokafatsang.
Maloba re ne re na le ba Khwai Development Trust (KDT) ba bua gore maikaelelo a bone is to diversify 3 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) their portfolio, ba tswe mo go lebaganeng fela le letseno la diphologolo, ba tsene le mo dikgwebong.

Ba ka dira jalo fa go na le facilities tse di tshwanang le tse, gore ba ka re, nnyaa re solofetse bakapisi kana bajanala ba le kana, they booked mo ngwageng tse kana.
Therefore go raya gore fa le re fa madi a a kana, re ka kgona gore re ka ya go dira kgwebo e nngwe kwa ntle ga e ya bojanala e. E le yone e ka tlhamang ditiro, e ka godisa itsholelo, e ka tsenya letseno mo motseng wa rona, batho ba Khwai ba kgona go tshela.

Ke dumela gore ke se se ntseng se tshwere Trust tsotlhe fela, a ke kwa Seronga, bojanala, Sehithwa, Phuduhudu, Sankoyo, kana Mababe, ba ntse ba tshwerwe ke gone go go tlhoka letseno le gore ba kgone go dira ditiro tsa bone.
Re ntse re ipelaetsa re re Trusts ga di nne le letsogo le le rileng mo go tokafatseng itsholelo ya kgaolo ya rona, mme ba na le potential ya gore ba ka dira jalo.

Jaanong fa go na le facilities tse di ntseng jaana go raya gore re bulela go gola ga itsholelo.

Motho gape o ka tla a re, kana gone fa the challenging word ke future aspect, gore letseno le o le solofetseng la kamoso a ke la temothuo, la kgwebo, a ke la eng, o ka le dirisa gore o ka kgona go bona madi.
Jaanong gone mo re re, go na le bodiphatsa jwa gone, re tshwanelwa ke gore fa re dira melawana re bo re e dira re lebile gore batho ga ba ye go beiwa ka fa mosing.

Kana dikgang tse di ntseng jaana motho o di fitlhela thata di le kwa badiragatsing kana arts industry, mo go kgonang gotwe producer ya re, re ka kgona go go fa bokana in advance for your next ten albums.
E bo e le gore motho jaanong ke lekgoba la producer e. Motho gotwe buka tsa gago tse tharo di go duelela kwa pele, motho e bo e nna lekgoba la publisher e, gore le gone moo re tshwanelwa ke go go lebelela, gore when we have a future aspect within the security interest initiative, re ya go kata jang gore batho ga e nne makgoba a dibanka le tse dingwe fela jalo.

Go botlhokwa fela thata.


Motho o ka gatelela e e neng e buiwa ke Honourable Regoeng ya collateral registry office, gore a e se ka ya nna fela mo Gaborone, a e tswele kwa ntle.

E bile gape fa e tswela kwa ntle, re lebelele seemo sa gore jaaka go buiwa gore the registration would be electronical, kana gone moo go tewa go dirwa ka bo internet le tse dingwe fela jalo.
Ke gore fa maloba re bona fela gone mo Maun, ka nako ya fa bana ba sekole ba ba yang dikoleng tse dikgolwane bo University of Botswana (UB) Limkokwing, Botswana University of Agriculture and Natural Resources (BUAN) bo eng, ba na le mathata a gore they can apply electronically, online mo Maun fela, mme Maun e le motse se ka toropo.
What about fa re tswela kwa ntle re re go nna le registration e e electronically mme you can register o le kwa Phuduhudu, Khwae, Seronga, Bodibeng, Sehithwa le kwa Makalamabedi, re a bo re raya eng tota?

A mme ke selo se se ka kgonagalang re ntse re itse gore maranyane a rona mo lefatsheng la rona a ntse jang?
A mme ga go botoka gore dilo tse di patagane, go nne le manual, gape go nne le electronically, gore kwa electronically go palang teng botoka manual e bo e ka dirisiwa, ga tswelelwa batho ba se ka ba beiwa ka fa mosing.

Mr Speaker, re tla re tshosiwa gape ke gore Article 21 ga ke itse gore a ke ya article kana ke section Reggie, dilo fa e le Bills jaana fa gongwe Sekgoa sa teng se a farologana.
Article 21 kana Section 21 it creates a room for error, golo moo go diphatsa, mo gotweng fa e kare o kwadisiwa go bo go dirwa phoso, go tshwanetse go diragala jaana le jaana.

Ke eng re tlaa eteletsa pele gore gotwe go tlaa diriwa phoso fa o kwadisiwa?

Gone moo go e tla go belaetsa gore a mme go a bo go tlhoafetswe tota, a mme go a bo go tlaa diragala sengwe, kana ke ga malatsa otlhe mo re tlholang re solofediwa mme go sa diragale sepe.
Sa bofelo fela Mr Speaker, fa o leba Article 25/26, e e buang ka fraudulent and malicious intended notices, gore fine ya teng ke P100, 000.

Kana golo fa re leka to keep record le track le trend ya dikatlholo tse re nnang natso mo lefatsheng la rona mo Bills tse tsa rona fa re ntse re dira.

Bona tlhe motho yo, yo o ntshitseng notice, e maikaelelo a yone ke go tsietsa, a dira ka bomo, a dira molato ka bomo, a bo a a tlholwa P100, 00.
Fa re boela kwa go ele ya declaration of assets and liabilities e eleng gore motho yo o reng, nnyaa mme people who have declared ke ba, yo o na le se, yo o na le se, re bo re re motho yoo o molato, mo e leng gore a atlholwe tota.

Fine ya teng e tsamae kwa go bo P250, 000 e tsamae kwa go bo half a million, dilo tse ga di tsamaelane, ka fa re akanyang ka reng ga re akanye sentle.
Ke sone se nna fa gongwe ke tlang ke dumela ba ba buang ba re tota Reset Agenda e e tlhokafalang mo lefatsheng la Botswana ke gore party ya Domkrag e ntshiwe mo pusong.

Gone moo fela ka bogone ke yone Reset Agenda e lefatshe le le e tlhokang.

Ke tsaya gore Batswana ba reeditse ba a utlwa, ba tlaa diragatsa jaaka go tshwanetse.

Tanki Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Kekgonegile.

Honourable Member for Kgalagadi South, Honourable Brooks.

...Silence...
...Silence...

4 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Honourable Brooks, o ile kae, o kwa Struizendam?

Mma re fete, Honourable Molao.

MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): Ke a leboga, ga ke itse gore a fa ke leng teng network e tlaa ntshwa sentle.

Mma ke simolole ke supe gore ke ema nokeng molao jaaka o beilwe.
Kana ke tswelediso e re neng ra e baya pele, gore keletso ke go akaretsa Motswana mongwe le mongwe mo go tsa itsholelo.

Re lebile bokgoni jwa go dirisa madi le go adima madi go itlhabolola.

Re na le batho ba le bantsi thata Mr Speaker…(interruptions)… Ke ne ke santse ke rialo ke re maikaelelo ke go akaretsa Motswana mongwe le mongwe gore a kgone go itlhabolola fa a leng teng.
Re na le Batswana ba le bantsi especially in the informal sector ba ba itekang ba leka go tlhabolola matshelo a bone, mme ba tlhaelelwa ke madi a kadimo, ka gore ga ba na the fixed assets tse gangwe le gape ba dibanka ba a di batla mme jaanong molao o o leka go akaretsa bone batho ba.

Tumelo ke gore the collateral registry fa e dirwa e tlaa kgona gore e dirwe ka matsetseleko.
Ke a itse gore re le mo teng ga Palamente ga re ka ke ra dira sengwe le sengwe, the finer details tsa gore go tlaa tsamaya jaana le jaana.

Go tsweng fa go tlaa nna le regulations tse di tlaabong di ka tsamaisa molao o mme fela re tshwanetse ra rotloetsa Batswana gore se ke sone sebaka sa gore the informal sector le yone e tsene mo itsholelong gore motho a kgone go dirisa dithoto tsa gagwe tse a nang natso go ya dibankeng go adima madi a go itlhabolola.
Mo gongwe go tlaa tlhaela mme fa go tlaa tlhaelang teng, batsamaisi ba tshwanetse go dira regulations tse e leng gore ba dibanka ba tlaa kgona gore ba se ka ba kganelela batho kgakala, ba nne le tsamaiso e ka yone e leng gore the informal sector ba ka tsena mo itsholelong, bogolo jang ya madi Mr Speaker.

Kana fa re ne re bua ka an inclusive economy, re ne re raya gone mo.

Ga ke itse gore a ke ntse ke utlwala sentle Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Ee rra.
MR SPEAKER: Ee rra.

MR MOLAO: Fa re bua ka inclusive economy, re ne re bua ka gone mo.

Fa gongwe batho ba etle ba re the devil is in the detail, yone ya implementation gore a mme bone ba makalana a dibanka ba ba tlaabong ba adimisa madi, will they have full confidence mo bathong ba rona gore yo mme fa re ka mo adima o tlaa kgona go busa?

Dithoto tse tsa gagwe tse a di kwadisitseng being the movable property e a e kwadisitseng a e tlaa kgona gore a buse madi a rona?
Ke solofela gore le pele fa go nna le molao, ke tsaya gore motho o ka bapisa le mo go ntseng go diragala ga pawn shops mo batho ba kgonang go tsamaya a ya go tshwarisa koloi.

Malatsing a re tle re bone ba kwadile ba re, “pawn your car and still drive it.” Ke dingwe tse go lebegang di le mabapi le se re batlang go se dira.
Re batla go dira molao go o baakanyetsa gore batho ba kgone go adima madi mme fela the gist of what we are doing Mr Speaker, ke gone gore Motswana… …Silence… MR MOLAO: … tsela ya gore go berekege ka tsela e e siameng.

Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng ra se dira Mr Speaker.

Ke sone se e leng gore I support ka fa go ntseng ka teng gore re tle re kgone go tswelela re akaretsa Motswana mongwe le mongwe in the financial services sector… …Silence… MR MOLAO: … kgolo e re e beileng fa mo letsatsing la gompieno.
Ke sengwe se re tshwanetseng ra se atla.

Ga ke batle go ya lolololo le kgang e ka gore selo se se motlhofo fela… …Silence… MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Molao.

I think Honourable Brooks is not there… MR MOLAO: …e le gore go ya kwa pele e bo e le gore…(Interruption)… yes Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Nna ka re gongwe o feditse.

MR MOLAO: Ke ne ke re ke leke go tsena mo system e nngwe; dilo tse tsa maranyane tse di a re tshwenya.
Fela I thought the gist of what I wanted to say has been largely covered ka se e leng gore ke ne ke ntse ke se bua mo nakong ya gompieno gore I support molao mme keletso ke gore ba Finance fa re dira collateral registry gore Batswana ba tsene, jaaka ke buile, lantlha ke re kana tota the devil is in the detail.
Fa o bona bangwe ba tla ba re motho fa a le kwa kgaolong a golo mo go tlaa mmerekela, fa motho a le kae a golo mo go tlaa mmerekela, ke gongwe go sa nna le proper and clear trust mo go reng a mme ba dibanka will they have confidence mo molaong ka fa o ntseng ka teng.

…Silence… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kekgonegile, tswelela; nna le wena re itse gore re bua ka ga eng, tswelela.

5 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR KEKGONEGILE: Tanki Mr Speaker.

MR MOLAO: Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, Honourable Minister, continue.

MR MOLAO: Okay.

I thought o ne o re Rre Kekgonegile; jaanong e ne e ntsietsa.

MR SPEAKER: Ee, ke ne ke bua le ene, jaanong ga gona sephiri mo dilong tse.

MR MOLAO: …(Laughter!

)… Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.


Ke ne ke santse ke rialo ke re tota fela ntleng ga go ya kgakala le kgang, ke yone tsamaiso e e leng gore e ne ya re fa re ya ditlhophong re le phathi ya Domkrag, ra bua ka inclusive economy.

Re ne re bua re reela mo go yone thulaganyo e ya gore re a go dira collateral registry.

Ke selo se re neng ra se isa kwa Dikgotleng kwa bathong re ya go buisana le bone gore ke selo se re yang go se diragatsa.
Ke ne ke batla go boa fela ke ntse ke gatelela ke wetsa Mr Speaker, ke rotloetsa ba Finance gore in the regulations fa re di dira, … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification; o kare o a utlwala jaanong.

MR MOLAO: Rra?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR MOLAO: Ee rra, o ka tsena.

MR TSHERE: Thank you Honourable Speaker.

Ke ne ke itsapa lantlha fale ke utlwa a sa utlwale sentle.

Honourable Molao, ke a utlwa gore kgang e o a e itse o a e tlhaloganya.
Ke ne ke re ke botse gore wena ka o kare o na le lebaka gone mo Palamenteng, e rile fa go dirwa molao wa gore immovable property assets di kgone go letlelelwa mo the banking, why was movable properties excluded and the reason that excluded them nako eo a ga e sa tlhola e le teng gompieno, re e kgonne?

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR MOLAO: Ga ke motho wa financial markets mo go kalokalo mme ke dumela gore santlha fela e ne e le yone kgang ya lack of confidence mo go reng kana fa o adimile madi kwa bankeng o re, “ke na le koloi ke e e tlhwatlhwa e e kana, nkadimeng madi ke ye go itlhabolola,” gongwe e tlaa re ba santse ba go adimile madi o bo o tloga le yone koloi yone eo gongwe o e senya kana o e rekisa.
Ke dumela gore e ne e le dingwe tse di tlhokanang le gore go nne le kutlwisisano le puisano e e tseneletseng ya gore mme how confident are the financial service sector is mo go reng movable property e ka dirisiwa ka tlhamalalo go adima madi.
Ke tsaya gore re setse re tswa kgakala and our financial service e setse ka bonya ka bonya e godile, gongwe e na le confidence and also appetite ya gore fa go dirilwe a collateral registry go kwadilwe go tlaa nna le safeguards tsa gore fa motho a tlile a kwadisa selo gongwe a se ka a diragatsa ditumalano, ba dibanka kana ope yo o adimileng madi, tshiamelo ya gagwe kwa morago ke eng mo go wena fa e le gore o ne o dirisitse sengwe se e leng gore is movable.
Yone koloi jaaka re ne re e fa sekai ka koloi e bo e tloga gongwe e senyega kana o e rekisa kana sepe fela.

Ba tlaa tla jaanong tshiamelo ya bone ya go busa madi a bone mo go ba e tsaya ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ke dumela gore molao o o tla jaana after wide consultations le banaleseabe botlhe go bona gore setšhaba sa rona ka bontsintsi ba ka akarediwa jang mo itsholelong.

Le gone mo gape go ka thusa go tsosolosa le yone itsholelo go dira gore le bone… le fa ke re ba the informal sector, ga se bone fela.
Ba bangwe they are in the formal sector mme ba sena the fixed assets tse ba ka di dirisang go adima madi go itlhabolola go ya pele go tsholetsa matshelo a bone.

Ke ne ke dirisa the informal sector fela as an example ka ke itse gore ba tletse gongwe le gongwe.
Yo mongwe o beile tafolenyana fale o rekisa se a se rekisang, yo mongwe o fale o loga meriri jalojalo, mme a na le selwana sengwe sa gagwe se a ka reng se se ka bewa tlhwatlhwa sa kgona go dirisiwa gore a adime madi a tle a godise semausunyana sa gagwe kante kgwebo ya gagwe e tle e kgone go itshetlela a itshetse ka yone a hire batho.

Tota fela gone mo in general ke go leka go akaretsa Motswana mongwe le mongwe fa re re we do not want to leave any Motswana behind, go tewa gone mo.
Jaaka ke buile ke wetsa Minister ke ntse ke e gatelela, the financial sector ka boyone re tshwanetse ra dira ka regulations gore ba se ka ba tloga e re re dirile molao fa re o fetisitse, e re batho ba tsena kwa dibankeng, ba tsena kwa mafelong a go adimiwang madi, e bo e le gore jaanong ba tlhokwa dilo tse di ntsintsi tse e leng gore jaanong di ba kgoba marapo, tse e leng gore jaanong go nna even worse gore motho o ka adima madi a dirisa property ya gagwe e e leng gore e movable.
Re ka kgona go dira jaana, mme beng ba madi e bo e le gore jaanong ba baya hurdles kwa pele tse e leng gore fa gongwe madi a bone a felela a tura le go gaisa fa go tshwantshanngwa le ba ba nang le fixed assets tse e leng gore batho ba 6 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ka di dirisa as collateral.
Ke sengwe se e leng gore re tshwanetse ra se lebelela ga nna le a balancing e e leng gore jaanong e ka kgona go re thusa gore madi a tle a kgone go ya kwa setšhabeng sa rona ka kakaretso.

Ga ke batle go ya kgakala ka yone kgang e, e ne e le fela go e ema nokeng gore e tlaa thusa go akaretsa Motswana yo o kwa gae, Jamataka, Loomboko, Mathangwane, le yo o kwa Sebina gore a tle a kgone go bona madi a kadimo a tlhabolole botshelo jwa gagwe.
Fa o ya mo metseng e ya rona, o tlaa fitlhela go na le dimausu ka fa tlase ga ditlhare, tsa bomme bogolo jang, ba o bonang gore fa ba ne ba ka nna le letseno, ba ka kgona go tlhabolola matshelo a bone le go gaisa fa ba leng teng gompieno.

This is their opportunity and their chance.


Le bone banana ba e leng gore ba a iteka mme ba sena fixed assets, this is their opportunity, their chance e re tshwanetseng gore re ba e neele, ba se ka ba baya fela gore ba tlaa ya go bona madi ka Youth Development Fund (YDF) e e leng gore ga e kgone go ama mongwe le mongwe, ba a go bona madi fela ka CEDA e e leng gore ga e kgone go re neela rotlhe ka nako e le nngwe fela.
This is an opportunity for our people to be in the economy ba kgone gore ba tsweledise matshelo a bone.

Let us do regulations that will enable them to get these monies ba kgone gore ba tlhabolole matshelo a bone.

Ke ne ke re ke e tseye ka bokhutshwane jo bo kalo and support the Bill Mr Speaker.

Thank you.

MR BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): Thank you.

Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke tseye nako e ke go dumedise rraetsho mo tshokologong ya gompieno, ke bo ke dumedise bakaulengwe Mapalamente ka nna.
Mr Speaker, go botlhokwa thata gore re eme molao o nokeng, Molao-kakanyetso o re o eme nokeng.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko Batswana ba le ba ntsi ba na le keletso ya go batla go dira ditiro, mme ka lebaka la gore ga ba na security e nna mathata.

Ka go rialo fa sengwe le sengwe se ka nna security se e leng gore Motswana o tlaa kgona gore a bone gore o ka ikgolaganya jang le dibanka gore a bone madi, re tlaabo re ntshitse Batswana ka bontsi mo lehumeng.
Mr Speaker, o tlaa dumalana le nna gore mo dinakong tsa maloba, dibanka di tshwana le CEDA le NDB di ne di tsaya dikgomo, ditonki, dipudi, tse tsotlhe tse di ne di dira gore e nna security.

Ke ka moo ba boneng gore through that ba totobise lefatshe le gore le bo le le fa le leng teng mo bogompienong.
Jaanong jaaka Motlotlegi Rre Molao a sa tswa go bua gompieno jaana gore the informal sector ba na le keletso thata ya go batla go tlhabolola botshelo jwa bone, ba na le keletso thata ya go batla go bona ba tlhabolola itsholelo ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Kana fa Batswana ba tlhabologa, ba bo ba itshetlela, ka go rialo lefatshe le kgona gore le tlhabologe, lefatshe le kgona gore le nne le letseno le le rileng ka gore ba duela lekgetho ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Thulaganyo e e tlang ka Tona Mme Mma Serame ke nngwe ya dilo tse di siameng thata tse e leng gore re tlaa bona Batswana ba iteka.

Ba kgaolo ya me ka gore ba tshela ka dihutshane, leruo; ba tshela ka dilo tsotlhe tse di ntsintsi tse e leng gore ke ka tsone re ka reng ba di kwadise tse di ntseng di sa kwadisiwa gore e ka nna security.

Fa ba ka di tsaya ba di kwadisa Mr Speaker, go ka tshetsa, go ka ba thusa, go ka dira dipoelo.
Le gone Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse ra dira gore go nne bonolo, re se ka ra dira molao o e leng gore gompieno re a o buisana fa, mme e re jaanong fa go tla go tsena mo go reng go nne practical, go bo go raya gore jaanong o baya Batswana ka kwa mosing, re gatelela batho.

Ka nngwe tsela rabanka yo e leng gore go tshwanetse go adimiwe madi mo go ene, o simolola go batla dilo tse dingwe a simolola go gatelela Batswana.
Mr Speaker, nngwe ya dilo tse gongwe re ka ithulaganyang thata le tsone ke gore re tsenye mo go tlhamaletseng.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko bo NDB le CEDA ke ba galaletsa ka fa ke ntseng ke ba galaletsa ka teng, already ba na le problems tsa gore dikgomo le dipodi tse ba setseng ba di reketse batho ga ba na letshwao mo go tsone, ga ba na brand.

Ka go rialo, yo o rekileng, the beneficiary, o kgona gore ka nngwe tsela a abuse mo a neng a go dirile e le security.
So as much as re batla to save matshelo a Batswana, re batla go ba thusa gore ba tlotlomale, re tshwanetse ra dirisa le ditsamaiso tse e leng gore le tsone di tlaa sireletsa madi a re solofelang gore a tshwanetse gore a tswe a thuse Batswana; these financial institutions.
Mr Speaker, re batlele tsamaiso e e leng gore fa o rekela motho dikgomo mo go Motlotlegi Brooks, dikgomo tseo di tshwanetse gore in the meantime di bo di isitswe, and branded, kana ene yo o tlaa bong a re ke security tsa tsone, …(inaudible)… ka leina la yo o rekang.
Fa di rekwa ke CEDA security e le dikgomo, a dikgomo tsone tseo be branded ka security gore e re kamoso go na le dikgwetlho tsa botshelo, tse e leng gore they are beyond somebody’s control, go bo go nna le gone gore jaanong yo o rekileng yo e leng gore di ne di hunetswe fa tlase ga gagwe gore ke tsone tse di tlaa namang di lebile, e bo e nna gone gore jaanong banka epe fela e kgona gore e nne le letsogo la go dira se e ka se dirang gore e se ka ya iphitlhela e gapetse bana dilo tse di sa tshwanelang gore e di gape.
7 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Mr Speaker, melao e jaaka re sa tswa go bua, ga go tlhokafale gore re tlhole re bua thata ka yone, fela ke gore re supe gore batho botlhe mo lefatsheng la Botswana ba ba ntseng ba na le keletso, ba ba ntseng ba na le mantlo, dikoloi tse di tlaa bong di ya to be valued, sengwe le sengwe se se valued, se tlaa bo se thusitse gore Batswana ba fetole matshelo.
Ka go rialo, ga ke batle go nna moleele thata mo molaong o, ke batla go nna mokhutshwane fela ke re rraetsho, ke ema mmaetsho nokeng ka molao o gore molao o a o fete o ye go o diragatsa Batswana ba kgone gore ba bone botshelo, ba kgone gore ba tle ba kgone gore ba fetole matshelo a bone ba hire ba bangwe.

Ke yone tsela e ka yone re ka kgonang gore re lwantshe tlhokaditiro le lehuma, re oketse itsholelo ya lefatshe.

Mr Speaker, ke a go leboga mong wa me ka mafoko a a kalo.
MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Nte ke tseye sebaka se ke go leboge, re bue Molao-kakanyetso o o fa pele ga rona o o o bidiwang gotwe virtual assets; ke gore dithoto tse e leng gore ga re di tshware ka menwana.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Nnyaa, nnyaa tlhe tsala ya me.

MR RAMOGAPI: Mma?

MS SERAME: Nnyaa re ko go o sele, re kwa movable.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ee ole, sorry.

Nnyaa ke e tshwere, ga go na bothata, ee.


Mr Speaker, kana kgang e e botlhokwa e e leng gore re tshwanelwa ke gore re bue ka yone, ke gore selo sa ntlha Batswana ba ntse ba lela ka kgang ya collateral security.

Dikgang tse e leng gore di botlhokwatlhokwa thata ke gone gore Batswana ba nne le seabe sa gore jaanong gongwe ba ka kgona go thusiwa ka ditsela tsotlhe tse ba ka kgonang gore ba thusiwe ka tsone, go na le gore re bo re santse re boetse fela kwa morago.
Ba ba Financial Action Task Force (FATF), ke tsaya gore ke nngwe ya melao e e leng gore ba thusitse thata mo lefatsheng la rona gore re bo re e tsibogela ka gore ga re a bolo go nna fela re le ba ba busang re sa tsibogele molao o. Molao o ke mongwe wa melao e e leng gore tota ke e e sa bolong go diriwa, mme e bile ga se molao o e leng gore re ka tsaya lebaka re sa o amogele ka gore tota o ka re isa golo gongwe Mr Speaker.
Fa re lebeletse thata segolo bogolo jang ka fa o tlaabong o tsamaisiwa ka teng le ka fa o ka thusang Batswana ka teng, ke molao fela o e leng gore Mr Speaker, o tlhamaletse mme e bile gape ga o na madiadia ape.

Ke ka moo ke reng one o ke o eme nokeng fela thata kgaitsadiake, ke bona o kare o e tlodile.

Bagaetsho, ga se kgang e re tshwanetseng gore re e itumelele fela gore Puso ya ga Domkrag e tlisitse molao, jaanong Batswana ba tlaa tshela.
Re tshwanelwa ke gore re boele kwa morago re re fa e ne e se FATF, re ka bo re le kae?

Molao o o tla jaana ka lebaka la gore go lemogilwe gape gore dirukutlhi di kgona gore di iphitlhe ka ditsela tse di ntseng jaana, di bo di dirisa loophole e gore ba ka kgona gore ba tsene mo lefatsheng la Botswana, ba bo ba dirisa tshono e e ntseng jalo.
Jaanong se re tshwanelwang ke gore re se itumelele ke gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe kwa gae fa a tsena mo go one, o tlaa kgona go bona gore mme o ka kgona gore a letlelelwe mo dikgannyeng tsa security.
Tota kgang e e ntshwenyang Honourable Speaker, ke yone ya security, e gompieno jaana re bonang ba CEDA e le bone ba ba itekang kgapetsakgapetsa, ba kgona go fetola gore a re se ka ra baya fela ka gore security sa rona e tlaa nna the fixed assets ka gore bontsintsi jwa dibanka ga ba batle gore ba adime batho madi ba beile mo kgannyeng e gotweng ke immovable assets.

E le gore Mr Speaker, go na le lebaka la gore these immovable assets, kana assets mo kgannyeng ya madi di pedi.
Go na le e re reng fixed assets, re bua ka dilo tse di tshwanang le dikago, jalojalo.

Go bo go nna le tse re reng ke immovable assets, re bua ka dilo tse di tshwanang le bo dikoloi, furniture, computers.

Gone mo ke mo re reng dibanka ka bontsi ba ne ba santse ba ganeletse mo kgannyeng e ya fixed assets mme re bona ba CEDA o kare ba ntse ba ya kwa pele.
Se setona ke gone gore re ka itumela thata fa Honourable Serame fa e le gore dibanka tsotlhe tse di private le tsone ga di ganelele fela kwa bogologolong, molao re ntse re o dirile o fetotswe.

Le bone ba fetole le nako ba re re tlaa thusa Batswana ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ka go rialo Mr Speaker, molao o gape kana o nkgatlha fela ka gore o tsenya bontlha bongwe jwa kgang e re ka reng ke intellectual property.
Molao o o tsenya bontlha bongwe jwa kgang e gongwe ke tsayang gore ke ka bo ke na le madi a a tshwanang le kwa bo Bitcoin.

Ke tsaya gore fa ke tswa foo Mma Serame, gongwe le one ke ka re kana ke na le madi ka kwa Bitcoin a sekasekeng le a dumeleng, go na le gore go bo gotwe ao a metshelo ga re tsene mo go one, gongwe golo moo ke motshelo.

Ke tsaya gore golo moo go ka re thusa ka yone tsela e e ntseng jaana.

8 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Go ya kwa pele, a re boneng gore tota mme molao o re ya go o diragatsa.

Re na le mathata a matona mo lefatsheng la Botswana mo e leng gore melao e tle e re re e dira jaaka e ntse jaana, fa go yang go tla implementation, go tsena kgang e sele fela e e leng gore jaanong Batswana ba tlaabo ba lela ba re ao, ga le a re le dira jaana.
Ke ka a fa sekai fela ke re kana le fa gone ba ke ntseng ke ba boka ba CEDA ke re ba botoka, maloba ba ne ba santse ba bua gore dikgwebo tse dinnyennyane jaaka Rre Molao a ne a bua a re tlang le tseye madi, nnyaa le tlhoka fela.

Go ne go dirisiwa kgang e go neng gotwe Letlhabile.

“Letlhabile, tlang le tseyeng madi.” Implementation Letlhabile e bo e tsena mo sekgweng e le gore jaanong batho ba batliwa dilo tse dintsi.

Ke gakologelwa batlhophi ba rona ba nthaya ba re, “ah!
Kana Mopalamente gore re bone madi one a jaanong, re lopiwa madi a a kana.

Ke gore we are needed… HONOURABLE Honourable Member.

MEMBER: Clarification MR RAMOGAPI: Ee mma.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Sorry go go emisa tsala ya me Honourable Ramogapi.

Ke ne ke re o e tlhatswe, kana nako e nngwe mafoko a re a dirisang a kgona gore a tsenye ketsaetsego.

A wa re go ne gotwe batho ba tle go phaka madi?


Ga gona gope kwa business kwa Goromente a tleng a re batho ba phake madi.

Jaanong ke ne ke re o e tlhatswe gore o ka tswa o ngongoregela gore go na le dingwe, ke batla gore o wele sentle gore wa re o ngongorega ka eng ka gore ba investment ke tsaya gore ba go reeditse, ba tle ba baakanye ntlha eo.

Thank you.

MR RAMOGAPI: Nnyaa, ke lerato fela.

Kana o a mmona gore kgaitsadiake o bua e le gore tota ene o rata Ramogapi tota.
Fa ke ka se ke ka fetsa fela a sa bua le nna... HONOURABLE MEMBER: O e tshwere sentle Peggy, o mmoditse sentle.

MR RAMOGAPI: Kgang fela e e tlhamaletseng ke gore bagaetsho, ra re fa go tsena implementation, ke fa sekai fela se se leng teng, se Batswana botlhe ba se itseng sa lenaneo la Letlhabile.

E ne e le gore gatwe tlang le tseyeng madi, ga le na go batliwa securities, ga le na go batliwa sepe.
Ke tsaya gore Mapalamente otlhe a a mo ground ba itse ka kgang e. Jaanong batlhophi ba re e rile fa go ya go tsenwa kwa go dirwa kgang ya implementation, e bo e sa tlhole e le yone ele, e le gore jaanong ga le na go batliwa dilo tse dintsi.

Ba bo ba ya go batliwa dilo tse e leng gore jaanong quotations le dilo tse tsotlhe fa ba ya go di kopanya, ba bo ba re ba batla P5 000, madi a le a dirisang jaanong is more than P10 000.
Ke tsone dilo tse ke di buang kgaitsadiaka Honourable Minister gore a e re re ya go tsena mo tirisong, re bo re bona tota gore implementation re a itse gore mathata a lefatshe la Botswana bagaetsho a mangwefela.

Go na le kgang gatwe implementation, go diragatsa, go dira melao fela jaaka e le menate jaana, nnyaa le rona re ka rokotsega ba kganetso ra re bagaetsho, nnyaa molao o dirilwe jaanong ikatametseng dibanka, go ntse jalo.

Fa ba tsena kwa, e nna kgang e sele.


Ke yone e ke reng e re fa le diragatsa, le ye go lebelela thata re tsenye leitlho go bona gore Batswana ga ba ye go sokola ka kgang e. Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ga ke batle go tsaya nako e ntsi, one mogopolo ke o o siameng, ke a o tlatsa, ke a o amogela.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Ramogapi.

Honourable Mokgethi.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: There is a point of procedure before Honourable Mokgethi takes the floor.

MR SPEAKER: Yes.
MR SPEAKER: Yes.

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR SALESHANDO): Procedure.

You will excuse me if it sounds like I am a little bit late.

Mr Speaker, ke batla go dirisa kgang e ka gore wena you knowing in the Business Advisory Committee, fa o bala molao one o, o reeditse contributions tsotlhe tsa Mapalamente, Bill e ya Movable Property Interests Bill, ga gona gope fa e amanang teng le dikgang tsa grey listing le FATF.

Not at all!
Not at all!

Re ne re kopile gore re fiwe assurance gore go tsile go tsenngwa fela melao e e lebaganang le Bill ka gore golo fa fela re bereka mo come on, come on, a re direng ka bonako, re ya go tsena kwa komiting go ntse go tabogilwe.

Ke ne ke kopa gore e re go ntse go tsweletse, o kope Tona gore a re tlhalosetse gore molao o re tseneng mo go one, o kgonne jang go tsena fa pele ga Palamente ka gore jaanong re dule mo go tsa FATF, re tliseditswe di sele?
I did not want to bring it as part of the debate, but I want to alert you gore clearly, go na le tsamaiso ya gore golo fa ga re mo tsamaisong, we are now being taken advantage of ka gore re teetswe gatwe go na le pressure ya FATF.

O ga o tsamaelane le FATF gotlhelele fa o o bala le fa o reeditse, unless Minister a ka re bolelela gore ke recommendation efe.

9 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: I think Honourable Member, that is part of the debate so that the Minister can reply.

You will recall, or maybe you were not there at the General Assembly, I emphasised that all the political parties in this country when they go to their caucus, they are entitled to ask for officials to be at least to bring them on any Bill.

That is before Parliament for their better understanding.
I pronounced myself on that one quite clearly and deliberately ka gore ke ne ke sa batle go nna le diketseetsego.

MR SALESHANDO: That is fine Mr Speaker.

We will engage them.

However, fa re ka fitlhela e le gore ga e tsamaelane le sepe sa recommendations tsa Financial Action Task Force (FATF), I hope you will then decide gore a go ya go tswelelwa fela le stages tse dingwe tsa yone when it was not meant to be discussed in this meeting of Parliament.
MR BALOPI (GABORONE NORTH): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Mo tshokologong eno ke go dumedise.

Ke leboge ka fa o nkamogetseng ka teng mo Palamenteng e o e eteletseng pele ke le mongwe yo o nnang ke le kwa morago.

Ke dumedise Mapalamente otlhe a e ke ka tswang ke sa kopana le one.

Ke ba eleletse ngwaga o mosha, le maikaelelo le maikemisetso a go itirela re le Batswana.

Ke dumedise ba Gaborone North, e bile botlhe ke ba eleletse ngwaga o mosha.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, re tsile fano re beilwe pele Molao-kakanyetso ke Tona wa tsa Madi, Mmaetsho Honourable Serame.

Ke batla go simolola ke dumalana le Molao-kakanyetso o a o tsisitseng fa pele ga Palamente, o o buang ka dithoto tse e seng tsa senna foo, go ka dirisiwa mo itshireletsong ya kadimo, e le molao wa 2021.

E le molawana gape wa kakanyetso wa Movable Property Security Interest, 2021 (No.

49 of 2021).
49 of 2021).

Sa ntlha ke simolole ka go leboga gore fa ke lebile molao o, o tsamaya le setlhogo se re neng ra se baya Batswana pele ka ngwaga wa 2019 fa re ipaakanyetsa gore re tle re tsene mo Pusong gape e le la bo 12.

Setlhogo sa rona se ne se re, ‘tswelelopele mmogo go ya kwa itsholelong e e akaretsang botlhe.’ Fa o akaretsa jaana, e ne e le se re neng re se solofeditse Batswana gore re batla botlhe re ba akaretse.
Fa re tsena mo tswelelong pele e ya go ba akaretsa e, go ne ga nna le Ditshutiso tse di dingwe tse re neng ra di bewa pele tse di setseng e le molao.

Tse dingwe re bua ka Economic Inclusion Law e e neng ya feta mo Palamenteng e. Mo go yone gape, re ne ra fetisa le melawana e e neng e tsamaelana le gore batho ba ka ikgobokanya gore ba beeletse kana Collective Investment Law.
Re ntse re lebile gore go nnile le kakanyetso e e tsamaisang dikakanyo tsa Puso ya maloba e eteletswe pele ke Tautona wa lefatshe la Botswana.

E ne e na le dintlha tse tlhano, nngwe ya tsone e le go fetola ka fa re akanyang ka teng; mind-set change.

Se ke batlang go se bua fano ke gore dilo tse tsotlhe tse re buang ka tsone gompieno di tsetamisitse mogopolo le mokgwa wa tsone mo ditsholofetsong tse re di dirileng.
Re ne re bua gore go na le Motswana yo o tlaa elwang tlhoko thata; targeted citizen, e re neng ra ngangisanya ka bontsi gore re ya go ba akaretsa jang?

Re tlaa ba ela tlhoko thata e le Batswana ba sekei gore e nne batsayakarolo ba ba molemo mo go tsamaiseng itsholelo ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Ke nngwe ya ditsetlana tse re di bayang pele Palamente le setšhaba letsatsi le penne.

Ke nngwe ya dintlha tse di tlileng go dira gore Motswana yo a tshwanetseng a elwe tlhoko thata, a nne karolo ya itsholelo.
Le tlaa tlhaloganya batlotlegi gore itsholelo e e tsamaisiwang ke dikgwebo tse di potlana go ya kwa go tse di nnyennyane, ke yone e go leng gantsi e nnang le ditlamorago tse di utlwalang.

Di tsenya letseno mo lelwapeng lengwe le lengwe.


Go dirisa dithoto tsa gago tse e leng gore ga se movable property, go raya gore Batswana ba le bantsi ba e ntseng e le balemi-barui, ba bangwe e le ba dikitso tse ba neng ba di dira, mme ba sa itse gore ba ka beeletsa jang megopolo ya teng, jaaka re bua ka knowledge-based economy ya go dirisa dikitso, e bua ka ba ba tshwanang le ba ba kwa go Rre Hikuama ba ba dirang ditlatlana jaana.
Ba tlaa tshwanelwa ke gore ba simolole go itse gore ga se mabogo fela a a tlaabong a loga ditlatlana, e tlaabo e le dikitso tsa teng le go dira ka fa ba dirang ka teng gore ba ka go beeletsa ba go somarela.

Ke gone mo go dirang gore kwa bofelelong, diatla tsa bone di tshware, di dire.

Ka jalo, ke dumela gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe o ya go ungwelwa go utlwala.
Sa bobedi se ke batlang go se bua, ke kgang ya gore bagaetsho, re a itse rotlhe ka gore re tswa kwa dikgaolong tse di 57 tsa lefatshe la Botswana, ga go na ope kwa lefelong la gagwe kwa go senang leruo; a ke dikgomo, ditonki, dipitse, dipodi, dinku jalojalo tse o bonang di le mo ditseleng letsatsi le letsatsi.

Tse dingwe di thulwa ke dikoloi, o sa itse gore a di na le mong.
Ke tsaya gore molao o Mma Serame a tsileng ka one o, o ya go boa gape o dira gore Batswana ba simolole go itse 10 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) gore sengwe le sengwe se e leng sa bone, e nne se se ka ba okeletsang letseno, se ba boloka mo botshelong go ya kwa pele.

O ya go simolola o bona ba simolola ba somarela leruo la bone, ba batla go le disa.

Ba batla go le baya fa go babalesegileng.


Ba itse gore ke madi a a tlaabong a ka se ke a leswe fela gore e ye go thulwa ke dikoloi, kana e tsewe ke ba ba ka di ikadimang ba sa dumalana le mong wa tsone.

Ka jalo, ke tsaya gore molao o, o lolame, re tshwanetse rotlhe re o amogele.

Tona, ke batla gore fa re bua jaana, re itse gore motho o ka dirisa dithoto tsa gagwe tse e seng tsa sennela foo, e le tshireletso mo go adimeng mo dibankeng ka go farologana.
Bangwe ba buile ka tsa Puso tse di ntseng di le teng, tse di ntseng di dira jalo.

Tse di ikemetseng ka nosi, le tlaa itse gore mogwebi fa a tsena, se a se lebeletseng se se tona ke dipoelo.

A lebeletse go fokotsa se se ka amang dipoelo tsa gagwe.

He wants to maximize profit and minimize the risk.

Ke tsaya gore e tlaa re fa re sena go nna re dira ditsetlana tse di yang go tsamaisa Molao-kakanyetso o, re lemoge gore ga re na go batla Batswana ba jewe ntsoma.
Dithoto tse e seng tsa senna foo, go tlaa raya gore re di batle, re tlhole gore di mo seemong se se ntseng jang.

Ka jalo, merokotso ya teng e ya go nna e e kwa godimo e e tlaa felelang e le gore ga go na mosola wa gore o bo o adima o dirisa dithoto tsa gago tse e seng tsa senna foo.

Go raya gore o ya go felela o duela go feta gararo kana gabedi tlhwatlhwa ya dithoto tsa gago.
Ke dumela gore re tlaa ela tlhoko thata gore Batswana ga ba na go jewa ntsoma fa ba dirisa tse ba di bereketseng ka bothata go sireletsa kadimo e ba tlaabong ba tsena mo go yone.

Se sengwe batho fa ba tsena mo kgwebong jaaka re ba rotloetsa go dirisa dithoto tsa bone jaana, go ya go nna le gore kgwebo e ka tsamaya sentle kana ya fokola ka dinako tse di rileng.

E le mabaka a a farologanyeng; a e ka nna a itsholelo jaaka re ne re bona COVID-19 e amile dikgwebo di le dintsi jaana.
Batho ba simolola ba gapelwa, go sena tsamaiso e e lolameng.

Dilo tse ba neng ba di tshotse e le tsa bone le fa ba gapelwa jaana, e bo e le gore go lebilwe se se tlaa lekalekanang le se motho a se kolotang le se a tshwanetseng a se amogwe.

A se ka a tseelwa ka gore o kolota P200,000.00.

A bo a tseelwa le sa P500,000.00, se bo se ya go rekisiwa P200,000.00 ka ntata ya gore mogwebi yo o ikemetseng ka nosi e le banka jalojalo, o a bo a batla madi a gagwe gore a a buse.
Se sengwe ke gore go ya go kwalwa ba ba paletsweng e le Batswana ba ba itekang.

Ba kwalwa kwa bogologolo go neng gotwe ke Information Trust Company (ITC).

Ga ke itse gore a e santse e le teng.

O kwalwa leina gore o a kolota.

Fa o leka go ya go kolota go sele, o bo o fitlhela leina la gago le beilwe gone koo.

Ga o kgone go ka adima madi.


Jaanong ke tsaya ke re e tlaa re mo nakong e e seng kaekae, jaaka e le tsholofetso e re e dirileng gape mo Batswaneng, gore go tlaa tshwanela gore go nne le melawana e e kgonang gore leina la motho le ntshiwe mo bathong ba ba supilweng ka monwana o mohibibu gore ga ba ka ke ba adimiwa madi ka gore ga ba na boammaarurri mo nakong e e rileng.
Go sena go nna go sekasekwa gore ba tle ba kgone ka gore motho ga a ke a tlhobogiwa, go na le nako gape e batho ba tlaa tshwanelwang ke gore ba fiwe tshono gape ya go ka tswelela ba dira se ba tshwanetseng go se dira.

Fa ke ya kwa bokhutlong, ke eme nokeng Molao- kakanyetso o wa gago Tona Serame, ke ne ke etse tlhoko thata fa ke lebile Tshutiso e re e beilweng pele ke Palamente e e tsibogelang dikgang tse di tshwenyang thata tse di ka re bayang mo mosing re le lefatshe la Botswana.
Jaaka re ne re bua ka bo Financial Action Task Force (FATF) le bo Eastern and Southern Africa Anti Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) tse e leng tsamaiso ya mafatshefatshe e go rayang gore re ka se ke re itlhokomolose tsamaiso ya mafatshefatshe ka gore re batla gore le bagwebi ba lefatshe la Botswana, le bone ba ye go gweba kwa mafatsheng a sele.

E se ka ya re ba tsena koo, ba feta ba gakgamalela dingwe tse di tlhokafalang mo go bone fela jaaka bagwebi ba mafatshe a mangwe le bone ba gweba mono.
Ba fitlhele seemo se tshwana fela le kwa ba tswang teng gore ba tsamaise dikgang tsa bone sentle gore re se ka ra felela re na le botlhabetsi mo itsholelong ya rona e e ka tswang e tsamaisiwa ke gore batho ga ba gwebe ba lebile melao e e amogelesang.

Ka jalo, re kgone gore re nne le mhoholela o o re tsenang, o tsenngwa ke gore batho jaanong ba batla go tlhatswa madi, ba batla go menola Puso, ba batla go dira eng, ba dirisa madi a e leng gore ga a ka fa molaong.
Molao wa dithoto tse e seng tsa sennafoo go dirisiwa mo go sireletseng kadimo, ke bona o tsamaelana le molao o go tlileng go nna le kgang ya gore molao o fa o ka se ke o dirwe, ka fa ke tlhaloganyang ka teng, e ka nna ya re fa go ya go lebelelwa melao ya dikompone e ba FATF le ESAAMLG e rile jaaka ba lebelela molao wa rona wa dikompone ka fa o dirisiwang ka teng, ba lemoga gore go na le dilo dingwe tse di tlhaelang mo teng.
Mo go tse di tlhaelang, ka kitsonyana ya me e potlana ka gore ga ke motho wa molao, ka fa ke o bonang ka teng, go raya gore mo molaong wa dikompone o mosha o o 11 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) tshwanetseng gore o baakanngwe o, go na le dikgang tsa dithoto tse di seng tsa sennafoo, tse di tshwanetseng go akarediwa mo teng.
Ka jalo, ga o na go kgona gore o ka baakanya molao wa dikompone sentle, fa o sa baakanya molao wa dithoto tse e seng tsa sennafoo gore di kgone gore le tsone di bo di tsamaelana.

Ke ka fa nna ke le Mpho Balopi, ke le Mopalamente wa Gaborone North, ke dumelang gore go ka tswa go tsamaelana le dikakanyo tsa gore ke eng molao o le one e le karolo ya dikgang tsa FATF le ESAAMLG ka gore e tlile gore o baakanya se sengwe se bo se go raya se re o tshwanetse gore o ka bo o ne o dirile se sengwe.
Jaanong o se dire, e re fa o baakanya se sengwe se bo se fitlhela se le mo teng e le yone kakanyetso e re tshwanetseng go e … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa tlhaloso.

MR BALOPI: Ke rile ga ke itse molao.

O se ka wa mpotsa jaaka e kete o botsa motho wa molao, le gale botsa rraetsho.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MODUKANELE): On a point of elucidation.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke leboge the member on the floor Rre Balopi.


O e tshwere sentle thata, mme gongwe fa re e leba ka bophara, re ka eletsa fa o ne o ka tlhalosa jaaka o ntse o tlhalosa Mopalamente gore kgang e kana tota kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi, e bua se re se buileng mo manifesto wa rona fa re ya kwa Batswaneng ka 2019, gore re ya go tokafatsa re ba re tlhofofatsa go dira business mo lefatsheng le.
The way we tract business … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ra re FATF, re bua recommendations... MR MODUKANELE: We have to look at the bigger picture Mr Speaker.

Ga re ka ke ra tsaya dilo re bo re di lebela in a narrow way, re bo re re ga re sa tlhole re le mo FATF.

FATF is facilitating, kwa bofelong jwa letsatsi, there has to be rippling effects tse di amang Batswana mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

This is how we should understand things in the context e re buang ka yone Mr Speaker.
Ga ke ka ke ka eletsa gore re bo re ka timetsa Batswana re bo re re Honourable Serame o tlile ka nnetane e e leng gore ga e sa tlhola e bua ka provisions tsa FATF.

Mr Speaker, tota ke ne ke batla elucidation fela ke re Honourable Member o e tshwere sentle jaaka o ne o supa gore e akaretsa le Motswana yo o mo Malaka, yo 12 tota go na le dipodinyana, dikgomonyana le ditonki.

O e tshwere sentle Secretary General (SG).

Ke ne ke re ke rialo fela gore e re fa o e garela, o e garele jalo ka bophara jalo.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SALESHANDO: On a point of clarification.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re ke gakolole the former Minister ka gore a re ga se motho wa molao gore tsamaiso golo fa re tletse Financial Intelligence Bill, re bo re tewa gotwe all other Bills tse di teng are as a consequence of the Financial Intelligence Bill e re tlaabong re e fetisa.
So, gore o re ke akanya gore e ga se consequence ya Financial Intelligence Bill, but for a different Bill, le fa o re ga o itse molao, I think le wena o tlaa lemoga gore you are stretching it too far.

O bo o tlhalose gore e tsamaelana le Financial Intelligence Bill.

Ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of correction.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi, if you are doing clarification as opposed to correction, you might have a leg to stand on.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): On a point of clarification.

Mr Speaker, mme ke tlhalose gore kana FATF le ESAAMLG, e ne ya re fa e leba Company Act ya rona, e bo e bona gore dilo dingwe di a tlhaela mo go yone.

Kana dilo tse gore re di baakanya mo Company Act, consequence ya teng e ne e tshwanelwa ke gore re dire molao wa Movable Property Act one o re o dirang gompieno.
Re ne re ka se ke re baakanye se FATF e se batlang kwa Company Act, re sa dire molao ka gore gone go amiwa dintlha tse dintsi tse di amanang le Movable Property Act.

Ke a leboga.

MR BALOPI: Ke a leboga.

Ke ne ke tsere gore ke e tlhalogantse jalo Motlotlegi Saleshando.
Le fa gongwe e ka tswa e sa nna jalo, ke ne ke bona go se molato gore fa re lebile seemo sa rona le sa itsholelo, segolo jang rona ba re lebileng gore re etelele batho pele, melao e e ka ba thusang fa re kgonang teng, re kgone go nna re e tsenya mo Palamenteng mo.

Re se ka ra nna re leba fela gore kana mme gone go tlilwe go ya go tsena se.

O lebelele Motswana kwa gae gore ene o tlhokana le eng.
Ke tsaya ke re se Rre Molebatsi a se buang, ke se ke neng ke leka go se supa gore ke belaela, fa ke lebile ke bala melao e re setseng re e beile pele ka gore re setse re filwe tsone Bills tse, ke bona gore e ka re go na le bothata jo e tlaa reng kwa bofelong, re kopane le bone fa re ke se ke re dire o, re bo re ya kwa Companies Act.

E ne e le yone eo fela.

Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Rre Modukanele boammaaruri jwa kgang ke gore re solofeditse batho gore ba tlaa kgona go dira dikgwebo tsa bone ba phuthologile, ba tlaa kgona gore e nne batsaya karolo ba ba lolameng fela jaaka ke ne ke simolola.

Ka jalo, ke maitlamo a mo nakong ya gompieno, re setseng re a baya fa pele ga Batswana ba bona jaaka re setse re dirile mo dilong tse di farologanyeng tse dintsi gore tse re neng re bua le bone ke tse ba tshwanetseng gore jaanong ba di bone.
E tle e re kwa morago fa di ntse di tsenngwa mo tirisong jaaka Tona a buile gore go ya go nna le ofisi e e tlaabong e itebagantse le gore batho ba tle go tlisa tsa bone, ba di supe ba di beye foo gore di itsiwe di kgone go dirisiwa.

Ke dumalana le ba ba reng ofisi eo e name, e akaretse botlhe, e phuthologe ka gore re setse re bona gore le fa e dirisa maranyane, Rre Brooks o ntse a bua le rona a le kwa Bray kwa Hereford kgakala fela kwa molelwaneng o mongwe kwa go nang le internet.
Maloba Rre Pule o ne a re o bua a le kwa Ramotlabaki ka gore Mr Speaker, o ne a mmotsa gore a kwa Ramotlabaki go na le internet.

Mo go rayang gore ga re ka ke ra nna fela re le moriti o tsididi re re ga re ise re fitlhelele mafelo otlhe ka go tlisa maranyane.

Se se tona ke gore kwa maranyane a setseng a le teng, a ditshiamelo tse di ye teng, batho ba kgone gore ba simolole ka bonya.
Re baakanye fa go senyegileng teng, re taleleletse mo go iseng go lekane gore e re kwa bofelelong, re bo re kgona go fitlhelela botlhe ba re ka ba fitlhelelang Mr Speaker.

Ke dumela gore molao o o tlhamaletse, ga re ka ke ra tsaya lebaka le le kalokalo mo go one re gana ka one, ka gore mongwe le mongwe o a itse gore kwa a tswang teng molao o o baya fela mo mpepeneneng sengwe le sengwe se Motswana a ka dumelang gore se ka mo diragalela.
A o kae, a o kwa Ledumadumane mo bogompienong jaana fa o beile tafole fa pele ga ntlo ya gago, tse tsone fa o di utlwa ke tse di molemo.

Di go raya di re o tlhwaafalele go dira jalo, o bone gore dipotsanyane di a kentwa, di a tlhokomelwa, di atle gore e tle e re kwa bofelong di ye go go ungwela gore o nne motsayakarolo yo o lolameng.

Ka jalo, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga, ke ema molao o nokeng.
Fa gongwe fa re ka diega thata, ke a tle ke utlwe dipolelo tsa gore go na le phologolo nngwe, ga ke itse gore gatwe e bonwa kae, e e sa nkeng e kgotsofalela sepe.

Fa o e neela se se nyennyane e batla se segolwane, fa o e neela seo e batla se se tonatona.

Ka jalo re tshwanetse gore mo bogompienong re itumelele se re se beilweng pele se, e tle e re kamoso Batswana ba phuthologe ba ungwelwe e nne batsayakarolo ba ba lolameng jaaka Rre Modukanele a ne a sa tswa go supa.
Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF TERTIARY EDUCATION, RESEARCH, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (MR LESASO): Thank you Mr Speaker, gore gompieno o bo o mphile tshono ya go akgela mo molaong o wa Movable Properties Act ya 2021, e re e beilweng pele ke Tona wa Madi.

Ke bua jaana ke tswa mo kgaolong e e aperweng ke lehuma le le tona, ya Shoshong.
Fa o ka bona metse e e mo go yone ga e gaufi le ditlamelo tse di ka bong di ka thusa batho bao go atumela dibanka kana fa ba ka kgonang go ikopela dithuso tse ba ka adimang gore ba itokafatse matshelo ka tsone.

Ke dumela gore molao o o tlaa ba tlhabolola, re a itse gore kwa dikgaolong tse di tshwanang tsa bo Moralane, Mokgenene, Poloka, batho gantsi ba ya kwa fela ba ya go reka.

Ba tsaya leruo, ba tsaya maungo e le gore batho ba a lema, ba di reka ka madi a a kwa tlase.
Ke dumela gore fa e le gore mo nakong ya gompieno ba kgona go dirisa tse ba di itiretseng, leruo la bone le tse ba di itemetseng gore ba di tshware e nne tse ba ka di dirisang ba kgone go di baya gore ba tseye loans ka tsone, ba di dirise go itlhabolola.

Ke tsaya gore golo moo go ka kgona go tsweledisa go ba godisa mo go itlhabololeng.

Selo se se botlhokwa se ke se bonang ke batho who are mostly marginalised, ba ba mo dikgaolong tse ba sena access to credit.
Mathata a ke nang le one ke gore dilo tse ba ya to access jang, ka gore bontsi jwa bone ga gona technology e re e buang.

Re fitlhela metse e e tshwanang bo Poloka le Mokgenene, tota gompieno jaana ga e ise e nne le motlakase.

Ke ne ke eletsa gore dilo tse di ka dirwa gore re itlhaganelele gore re tsenye metlakase mo dikgaolong tse tsa rona, gore batho ba rona ba kgone go dirisa tshono e Goromente a e beileng fa pele ga bone.
Re batla gore ba nne included in this economy, ba kgone go nna le ka fa ba ka tshelang ba anywa meamuso ya lefatshe ba itshetsa ka tse ba di ipeetseng ba sa di tseelwe ka go tsiediwa.
Se se botlhokwa se ke batlang gore ba tle ba … (Inaudible)… mathata a ke a bonang ke gore, go tshwanetse go nna le thuto e e tseneletseng gore batho ba itse gore jaaka batho ba dirisa dilo tsa bone gore ba tseye loans ba kgone go ikoketsa, ba itse gore fa ba tsere se ba se tsereng ba leka go itlhabolola, ba itse gore golo mo ke dikoloto tse ba tshwanetseng go di duela.

Ke nngwe ya dilo tse di tshwanetseng go dirwa, fa go sena thuto e tlaa nna mathata.
Dilo tse dingwe tse di teng e tlaa nna mathata a gore go tlhoka batho ba ba kalang dilo tsa bone, gore go se ka ga nna le tsietso, go nne le batho ba ba tlaa ba gakologang ka gore dilo tse di 13 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) kalwang boleng jwa tsone bo kana, ba ka tsaya dikoloto tse di ntseng jang ka tsone, a me di tsamaelana le tsone jaaka ba di agile ba di bopile.
Ke raya gore Mr Speaker, ke nngwe ya dilo tse di tshwanetseng go lebelelwa.

beile podi a sa e rekisa.

E secure loan gore a kgone go dira sengwe se se mo tshidisang.

Ke sone se re se buang gore dilo tse di tlaa atolosa meamuso ya lefatshe le mo go bone ba ba kgakala ba ntse ba sa bone dilo tse.

Se sengwe se se teng ke gore, o fitlhela go na le mekwalo fela e e mesesanyane e gantsi batho ba rona kwa dikgaolong ba sa kgoneng go e lebelela sentle.
Ene a lebile gore gongwe o ka kgona go bona madi, a sa kgone go bona gore mafoko a a iphitlhileng ka fa morago a amana jang le ka fa a tshwanetseng go ikarabela ka teng mo go se a tsereng kwa dibankeng.

A bo a akanya gore o ka tsaya loan a aga ntlo, mme gongwe a sa itse gore jaaka a e tsere ka dipodi tsa gagwe di le palo e e kana, o tshwanetse go di tlhokomela jang gore di nne teng foo, fa di seyo ntlo e kamoso e tsoga e tserwe e ya go rekisiwa.
Ke eletsa gore thuto e e tsenelele mo go bone, ba itse gore dilo tse di amana jang le se ba se tsereng.

Sekoloto se a duelwa, fa o se tsere o tshwanetse go se duela ka nako e e riling, mme dilo tse o se tsereng ka tsone fa o sa duele di kgona go tsewa mo go wena.

Ke raya gore go tshwanetse go nna le tlhaloso e e ntseng jalo.

Se ke se itumelelang ke gore, at least mo dikgaolong tse di ntseng jaana Batswana ba tlaa kgona go dirisa tse ba nang le tsone go ikoketsa ba itshetse.
Bomme ba ba mo dikgaolong tse ba ba mo lehumeng gompieno, ba nna ba le nosi ba rua dipodinyana ba sa kgone go itlhabolola kana bana ba bone, ba kgone go dirisa meamuso ya e ba e itiretseng mo dikgaolong.

Ka bokhutshwane Mr Speaker, tota e re fa dikgang di ntse di builwe go buiwa ka molao o, tota e tlaabo e le go oketsa marago ka…, gatwe ka eng, Setswana sa reng…, ee gone moo.

Ke raya gore se ke se buang ke gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Marago ka matapa monna, lekgoa ke wena o sa itseng Setswana.
MR LESASO: Ee, marago ka matapa.

Se ke se buang ke gore re tshwanetse go itse gore molao o tota o tlaa sologela Batswana thata.

Ke yone economic inclusion e re buang ka yone, ba ba kwa Mokgenene, Poloka, Otse le Moralane, ba dibanka di seyong gaufi le bone, ba ka kgona go dirisa maranyane a jaaka re ntse re bua gore we are expanding technology mo lefatsheng la Botswana gore e ye go goroga kwa go bone.
Ba kgone gore ba supegetse batho, ba itshupe tse ba nang le tsone mo dikgaolong tsa bone gore ba ka kgona go tsaya loans gore ba ikoketse.

A kgone go tsaya loan a dire semausu fale, shop fale, a kgone go dira bags fale, a itse gore o Mr Speaker, molao o ke o eme nokeng thata ke a o amogela, ke a o atla, le nna ke tlaa tsamaya ke o gasa kwa ke tlaa yang teng.
Fa e le gore Palamente e e tlaa o amogela jaaka go kopilwe, jaaka ke dumela gore re tlaa o amogela gore ke tlaa tsamaya kwa kgaolong e ya lefatshe la Botswana ke o gasa gore ba itse gore ba ka kgona go itshetsa ka one ba kgone go tlhabolola matshelo a bone.

Lehuma le le ntseng le ba apere ba tseelwa ke batho dilo ba di reka ka madi a manyennyane, jaanong ba ka kgona go di somarela ba kgone go tsaya loans ka tsone, mme di ntse di le mo go bone.

Ba bo ba duela di le gone fa, ka gore ba itshiditse ka tsone.
Ka mafoko a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke eme gone foo, ke a leboga.

MR MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

Mma pele ke go dumedise rraetsho ke bo ke go eleletse botsogo jo bo siameng go re goga, le monnao ga mmogo le Mapalamente otlhe ka go farologana.

Ke bo ke akgole ba ba letseng e re ngwaga o simologa wa simologa ka bone, ba bona ba welwa ke naledi mo sefatlhegong, dinaledi tsa bo Tona jaaka go ntse.
Ke dumedise ba Ghanzi South Mr Speaker fela thata, ba ba mo dipateleng ke ba eleletse pholo le masego le matlhogonolo.

Mr Speaker, ke tsene mo kgannyeng, gore ke mongwe wa Mapalamente ba gongwe ba ka reng molao o tsere nako e telele o sa buisiwe kana o sa buisanngwe.

Nako ya teng tota ga e bolo go tšhaa, bogolo jang ke lebile batho ba dikgaolo tsa rona tsa seKgalagadi ba ba itshetsang ka podi, kgomo le dihutshane.
Jaaka o itse gore kwa bo Tsabong kwa le dirile mafelo a kwa dihutshane di tlaabong di bonelwa teng, di bo di kgatlhisa leitlho teng.

Mr Speaker, ke tsene fela mo kgannyeng ya gore ga ke na mathata le melao go dirwa e mentle, mathata a me ke gore, melao e a dirwa, mme fa e dirwa jaana e bo e le gore o kare e dirwa ke Goromente o sele, go bo go nna le Goromente yo o tlileng go e diragatsa.

Go bo go nna le Goromente yo o tlileng to plan for melao e e dirilweng.
Ke bua jaana ka gore, Goromente o tlaabo a dira melao, fa a sena go nna a dira melao o tlaabo o simolola o utlwa excuses tse dintsi tse di farologanyeng.

Tlhaelo ya dilo kwa dikgaolong, tlhaelo ya babereki, dipalamo, ya eng, ya eng.

E e leng gore fa go sena ditsompelo tse di rileng, molao ga o reye sepe.

Molao ke ditlhakanyana tse dintshonyana fela tse 14 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) di mo pampiring, mme o ka tsamaisiwa ke motho go na le dikoloi, phones, ditlhaeletsanyo, radios kwa bo Bere-Kacgae, kwa bo East/West Hanahai Mr Speaker.

Diromamowa di utlwala sentle gore beng ba dipodi ba itse gore gatwe di rekisiwa leng kae, jang.
E bile ba kgone go bua le the valuers gore di ye kwa merakeng ya bone to value dihutshane, dikgomo, ba tle ba kgone gore tsone dilo tse ka e le dilo tse di ka sutisiwang di tsamaelane le molao o gompieno o supang o di amogela.

Ke bua jaana ke re o ka sologela batho ba kgaolo ya me molemo fa dilo tse di ka dirwa, ba lekalekana le dikgaolo tse dingwe tse di nang le ditsela le ditlhaeletsanyo.
Mr Speaker, mma ke re le fa e le gore tota ga go maleba gore gongwe ke bo ke ka re molao o o ka itebaganya le go bona gore totatota the people who value dithoto tsa batho jaaka e le batho ba dipolase, ba dikgomo, go nna go sekasekwa, go se ka gatwe dibanka di tle di letlelele fela.

Go sekasekiwe gore, a mme gone a batho ka fa go lepiwang ka teng boleng jwa dilo tsa bone, a go maleba.

Meraka e mengwe, yo mongwe o ruile dipodi tsa Boer goat, yo mongwe Savanna, yo mongwe Damara, yo mongwe Kalahari Red.
Dilo tse Mr Speaker ga di tshwane, mme fa the valuers di tsena bogolo jang who values for dibanka, ba felela ba supa fela gore, nnyaa podi ke bokana, mme e le gore ba bangwe ba diritse diphoko tse di turang go feta selekanyo.

Ke dilo tse molao o tshwanetseng wa tlhodumela, wa bona gore a mme fa re dira molao a tshiamelo kwa bathong ba re ba direlang molao e tlaa nna teng.
Much as ke bua le ka ba dikgomo, ga re a tshwanela gore fa re bua ka dithoto tse sutisiwang, a ke dipitse, ditonki, dikgomo kana dikoko, re bo re leba fela gore koko, kgomo, podi.

Nnyaa re tshwanetse ra leba boleng jwa kgomo ya motho, gore kgomo eo a ke Brahman, Simmental, Sussex, ka go latelana ga tsone jalo, fela jaaka when valuing houses, le tse dingwe bo ditshimo Mr Speaker.
Matlo go lebelelwa gore a ke two rooms, a e agilwe ka setena se se kima kana se se nnyennyane, a e na le motlakase, a e agilwe mo lefelong le le rileng.

So these things di tlhoka gore go tsenngwe leitlho le le tseneletseng, fa go ya go lebaganwa le diruiwa, le ditsa batho le bone ba ba leng dikobo di khutshwane ba ba tlaabong ba le fa teng.
Mr Speaker ke tshwanetse ka supa gore, Makgotla a farmer’s Association kana a balemi barui ba tlaa itumela thata bogolo jang barui fa ba utlwa molao o o tsena, mme ba ka itumela fela fa Goromente a ka tsaya karolo ya gore jaanong a oketse mosepele.

Mosepele wa go isa ditlamelo, wa go isa dilo tse di maleba kwa bathong ba ba tlaabong ba amiwa ke gore le bone ba welwe ke mana a molao.

Ke bua jaana ke re a oketse mosepele.


Fa o raya batho o re jaanong re ya go amogela dikgomo, dipodi, dipitse, jalojalo, e le dilo tse di ka sutang go tswa fa go A go ya kwa go B, gore le tsone banka e ka di amogela go go neela madi, o tshwanetse o le Goromente o bo o le mo seemong sa gore o bo o re, re ya go go sireletsa wena morui wa kgomo.

Re ya go oketsa mapodise gore e se ka yare jaanong ka gore dilo tse di a amogelwa magodu ba bo ba tsaya dilo tsa batho ba ikokeletsa Mr Speaker.
Re ya go go sireletsa wena moruakgomo gore dikatlholo tsa bogodu jwa leruo di tsholediwe, gore baruakgomo, baruapodi, baruakoko ba se ka ba amogiwa dilo tsa bone, ka gore jaanong ba bangwe ba tlaabo ba simolola ba bona gore di na le mosola ba bo ba ya go itlaletsa ka tsone khumo.

Re ya go go sireletsa gore jaanong kwa dikgaolong tsa bo Ghanzi re nne le Magistrate fela yo o itebagantseng le go seka ditsheko tsa leruo, magodu a tlhatlhelwe, a atlholwe dikatlholo tse di kwa godimo.
Dilo tse di tlaabo di direlwa gore mme motho yo dithoto tsa gagwe gotweng a tle a dire gore e nne tsone tse di ka sekasekwang, pele ga a ka neelwa loan a kgone gore le ene a heme phefo e e botoka.

Mr Speaker, ke batla ke supe fela gore, le sone sepodise, le bo Magistrate, le diofisi tsa bo veterinary di ka nna tsa okediwa ee go baakanyetsa melao e, mme ba tshwanetse to be equipped, ba neelwa ditsompelo tse di lekaneng ke Goromente yo o tlhoafetseng.

Yo o batlang go baakanya matshelo a batho.


Fa e le Goromente yo o tshameketseng ruri o tlaa nna fela a bolelela batho gore, ke ikaelela gore, e bile ke ikaelela gore, mme dilo tse dingwe jaaka ditsompelo mo go ba sepodise di sala di le questionable.

Dilo tse dingwe jaaka e le ditsompelo mo courts, kae, gongwe le gongwe e bo e le gore di santse Mr Speaker di sa jese diwelang.
Ke ne ke utlwa mongwe a akgola ba CEDA gore jaanong ba ne ba supa gore ba kile ba supa ka sebaka sengwe gore, ba ya go leba dintlha tse ba kgona go thusa batho fela, ke re nnyaa, nna kwa ofising ya me go tletse baikuedi ba bantsi gore, ba nna ba dira le CEDA ba dira, ba dira.
Fela fa ba tshwanetse gore ba wele, ba neelwe, go boa gape go batliwa sengwe se totatota le mo pampiring e e neng e supa gore dira se, dira se se neng se sa kwalwa, maina fa a batliwa fa go sekiwa ke ka a ntsha, ke re a go emisiwe mokgwa o bogolo fa re tsena kwa dikgaolong kwa letlhoko le leng teng.

A re se ka ra isa lesotlo kwa dikgaolong, re ise ditlamelo kwa dikgaolong.
Ka re lesotlo ka gore jaanong fa o simolola o ya go batla motho dinaledi mme o ne o mo reile wa re, nnyaa o ka ngwedi ke na le letsatsi go tlaabo go siame.

Mr Speaker, ka mafoko a a kana ke ema molao o nokeng, ke o ema jaana ke re, o diragadiwe, mme go elwe tlhoko dintlha tse ke ntseng ke di le baya pele.

Ke a leboga sir.

15 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Motsamai.
Honourable Molebatsi.

MR MOTSAMAI: Le ene o atle a akgele?

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Ooh!

O bua eng tota wena?

Mr Speaker, molao o o maleba.

Ke simolole ka go tlhalosa yone e re neng re e bua, Leader of the Opposition (LOO) a bua gore molao o o ka tswa gongwe o tsene ka back door.
Go maleba gore a botse jalo mme re ne re tlhalosa gone gore kana ba FATF le ba ESAAMLG ba ne ba bua gore melao ya rona ya dikomponi ba e batla gore e nne ka tsela e e leng gore re tlaa bona gore who are the beneficial owners.

Beneficial ownership ke selo se e leng gore se botlhokwa mme kana fa re bua ka dithoto tsone tsa bo movable assets and all these things, di batla gore go bo go itsiwe ke gore mong wa tsone ke mang.
That is why re tshwanetse gore as a consequence of go baakanya molao wa Companies Act, molao o o bo o le teng pele.

So, ka mafoko ao go a tsamaelana.

Ke na le bothatanyana fa Mr Speaker.

Go na le… …Silence… MR MOLEBATSI: Mr Speaker, ke re jaaka re ne re bua, molao o o maleba ka ntlha e ya gore fa re leng teng fa re sa tswa go bua go le gontsi gore re baakanya melao gore go nne le economic inclusion.
Kana re ne re lemoga gore Batswana ba saletse kwa morago, go na le pharologanyo e ntsi thata ya bahumi le bahumanegi mo lefatsheng la rona; economic inequalities tse di neng di dira gore re bone gore re atumetse Batswana golo gongwe, re dire tsotlhe tse di kgonagalang gore ba kgone gore se ba nang le sone ba se dirise gore ba kgone gore ba bone madi.

Ke sone se o ne o bona re tla ka Molao wa Economic Inclusion.

Ke dilo tse di tsamaelanang.


Go tlaa nna le melao e mengwe e e tshwanang le yone ya gore re rotloetse Batswana jaaka o ne o bona re tla ka moalo kana a strategy sa gore re re Batswana le ba ba berekang ba kgone gore le bone fa ba na le se ba ka se dirisang ba se dirise gore ba itirele letseno.

Jaanong ke sone se o bonang re tla ka molao o o ntseng jaana.

Rraetsho Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kana ga go reye gore dilo tse go ntse go sena.
Se re se dirang ka molao o ke gore a dilo tse di baakanngwe and be harmonised fela jaaka mongwe a ne a sa tswa go bua gore go na le bangwe ba ba kgonang gore ba adime batho madi ba tsere dilo dingwe tsa bone jaaka go ne go buiwa ka pawn shops.

Pawn shops ba tsaya dikoloi tsa batho le blue books tsa dikoloi, e seng dikoloi fela le thelebišhene tota; ba go fa sengwe.

Golo mo tota go ne go le haphazard ka Sekgoa.


Go tshwanelwa ke gore go dirwe sentle ka fa molaong gore go nne le a registry office e e tsamaisang tsamaiso e. Ke gatelele gore ga se sepe se sešha.

Se ntse se le teng, se sena tsamaiso fela e e lolameng.

Ke tse di tshwanetseng gore di dirwe ka fa molaong betsho.

Ke sone se o bonang re tla ka molao o gore go kgone gore go dirwe fela sentle go itsiwe gore ke mang yo o dirang fa kae a dira ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Ke buile botlhokwa jwa gore go tlaa nna le financial inclusion ka gore re na le dithoto le masimo.

A mangwe ke a boswa a re sa leng re a tlogeletswe ke batsadi ba rona mme re sotlega fela re ntse re tshwere masimo ao ka gore ga gona sepe se o ka se dirang kwa ntle ga go rekisa.

Gongwe ba bangwe ba a rekisa ba e leng gore ba gatelelwa thata mme se se tlaa dira gore motho a se ka a latlhegelwa ke se a nang le sone se a se tlogeletsweng ke batsadi ba gagwe.
Mo mafatsheng ka bontsi le Botswana a le mo teng go supafala gore se motho kana mogwebi wa Small Micro Medium Enterprises (SMMEs), the capital stocks tse a nang le tsone fela ke assets; movable assets jaaka ke ne ke bua ka bo masimo.

Kwa ntleng ga moo fela go na le tse e leng gore o ka nna le tsone ka gore o a lema.

O ka nna le gone gore mofufutso wa phatla ya gagwe e ka nna mabele a mantsi, mmidi o montsi kana dinawa tse dintsi.
Fa re na le molao o o ntseng jaana o e leng gore… ke tlaa supa kwa pele fa re ntse re tsweletse, lefatshe le ithulagantse sentle gore le kgone gore batho ba phuthe dilo tsa bone e bo e le gore ba a di ja, ba a di rekisa, ba ya kwa dibankeng.

Ke batla gore ke le supegetse fa bakaulengwe gore kana o fitlhela mo dikoleng tsa rona gone fa gore go na le tender e tona tona ya dinawa e le sekai, di tswa kwa Brazil.

Kwa Brazil ke balemi ba ba ikopantseng ba bo ba nna le a warehouse e ba phuthelang gone koo.
Ba nna le warehouses receipts.

Ba kgona go tsena in the exchange markets, ba kgona go rekisa.

Investors, batho ba ba nang le madi ba a tla ba reka dilo tseo di le gone foo.

Tse dingwe ba kgona go di reka go santse go lengwa go ise go nne teng, ba a reka ba neele batho madi mme e re fa thobo e tla e bo e le gore ba a tsaya.

Golo mo go dira gore go fetola matshelo a batho thata.

Ke sone se re se batlang mo lefatsheng la rona bagaetsho gore le rona re tlhabologe.
Ke yone transformation e re e dirang mo go Goromente wa rona jaanong re tswe fela gone moo gore motho o tlaa ithekisetsa a bo a rwala ka tlatlana ya gagwe a bo a ya kwa mmolong wa Phikwe a 16 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) re o ya go ithekisetsa.

Re batla gore jaanong go nne le exchange markets, re kgone gore go nne le warehousing receipts tse di supang gore o tlaabo o na le commodity golo gongwe.
With those warehousing receipts, you can go to a bank e bo e nna collateral gore o fiwe madi gore o kgone gore o dire dilo dingwe tsa gago.

Letlhodi le le lemilweng ke Rre Molale kwa fa go ntse jaana le le ntsi, le a tla and gets tested ke baitseanape ba bo ba bua gore rre yo tshwere letlhodi kana mmidi wa quality e e ntseng jang e bo e le gore o kgona gore fa go ntse jalo o ya kwa dibankeng ka yone warehousing receipt ya teng.
Mme fela tla ke gatelele gape gore kana gore dilo tse di kgonagale, go raya gore in the value chain ya sone se ke se buang… ke tlaa gatelela mo agriculture ka gore ke kwa temothuong gompieno.

In the whole value chain ya gone mo, go raya gore re nne le infrastructure le warehouses tse di tshwanang le e e agiwang ke ba Special Economic Zones Authority (SEZA) kwa Pandamatenga tse di lebaganeng le gore di ka tsenya dingwe tsa temothuo.

Warehouses tseo are recognised by dibanka.


Ke warehouses tse e leng gore are managed ke baitseanape.

Ke warehouses tse e leng gore jaaka di ntse jalo, segolobogolo mo temothuong, go nna le mo the value chain ba e leng gore they manage them.
Ba ba tlhokomelang (manage) warehouses tsone tseo ke dikhamphane di tshwana le Standard Solutions Group (SSG) ba e leng gore testing ya bone, quality and quantity e kgona gore fa ba ntshitse certificate se bo se lemogiwa (recognised) kwa mafatsheng; bo Amerika le France gore kwa Botswana go na le mmidi wa seemo se se ntseng jang.

Fa o tshwere warehouse receipt jaaka ke ne ke bua, o kgona go rekisa mmidi wa gago.

O kgona go tsaya madi ka receipt eo fa e le gongwe ga o ise o kgone go rekisa.
O fiwa madi ke banka o bo o tswelela ka tse dingwe o sa tlhoke gore o ka rekisa masimo a gago.

Ke kgato e tonatona thata e e tlaa fetolang temothuo ya rona.

Go tshwanetse gore fa go nna jaana go nna le molao o o ntseng jaana, re rotloetse Batswana ba ga rona.

I am going to localise it to my constituency gore kwa Mogapinyana go na le cluster mme e na le 10,000 hectares.

Go na le another cluster ya 3,000 hectares.

Se se tlaa bong se diragala gompieno with that 10,000 hectares… DR TSHABANG: Clarification.
Honourable Minister, ke utlwa o ntse o bua ka masimo as such and other related.

Do you classify masimo as movable property?

That is the question.

MR MOLEBATSI: No, no, no.

I am not classifying masimo as movable, ke raya se se tswang mo masimong.

Ke buile ka commodities tse di tswang mo masimong and that is what I classify as movable jaaka mmidi.

Mmidi gakere ke kgona go o tsaya ke o isa kwa France?

Ke kgona go o rekisa kwa Egypt kana mo Botswana.

Masimo fela is just for production.


That is why ke ne ke re commodity exchange.

Ke ne ke re fa o tshwere mmidi o le mo warehouse that is recognised, itse gore it is recognised gongwe e tsamaisiwa ke bo SSG kana lekalana lengwe le tshwana le bo Botswana Bureau of Standards (BOBS) le na le certificate, mmidi one oo o kgona gore ka receipt yone eo, banka e o bona, e kgona gore e go neele madi ka receipt eo gore o dire collateral gore e re fa o palelwa ke go duela ba tlaabo ba tsaya mmidi oo gakere.
Ke sone se ke se buang.

Go ya kwa pele, ke sone se re se gatelelang gore balemi le tshwanetse gore ka gore go na le melao e e ntseng jaana, a re diriseng lefatshe re leme ka gore jaanong ka bogone fela go tlaa dira gore jaanong investors, bone batho ba e leng gore ba mo exchange, ba re latele.

Golo mo has turned around temo thata kwa Ethiopia.

O rekisa o sa itse gore dilo tsa gago di rekwa ke mang.
Dilo tsa gago di kgonwa go rekwa fela o ise o bo o di lemise, o re fa o tsenya peo fela e bo e le gore o kgona gore bangwe e bo e le gore ba supa gore ba a di batla.
Ke yone economic transformation e re e batlang, go tsamaelana le melao ya rona jaaka ke sa tswa go bua ya gore re batla go bona le middle class; fa ke re middle class ke raya ba ba rutegileng ba ba kanaka nna ba ba setseng ba tlogetse tiro, ba ba ntseng koo ba e leng gore ba ka kgona go tlhaloganya, a le bone re ba kope ba tsene gone moo ka gore re dirile gore go nne motlhofo, go nne gore batho ba kgona gore ba rekise dilo tsa bone ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.
Nte ke gatelele selo se, ga ke ka ke ka tswa ke sa gatelela gore ke reye Motlotlegi Serame gore you need a stakeholder se go tweng banka for funding houses gore fa ba se part of this thing from the onset, ba sa tlhaloganye selo se, batho ba a go tla ka warehousing receipts mme ba bo ba ntse ba sa fiwe madi.
Kana gore motho a go fe madi kwa dibankeng, ga go pateletse, of course yes re ka dirisa bo CEDA ba rona bo eng, mme fela that stakeholder e go tweng banka fela fa re simolola tsela yone e, a ba nne part of this thing, batho ba se ka ba ya go bowa ba tla ba tshwere warehouse receipts.

MR THIITE: Elucidation Honourable Molebatsi.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Molebatsi, gongwe e bile o santse o tlhalosa foo ka dibanka, o bo o bua ka commercial banks le dibanka tsa rona, ke ne ke re gongwe molao o o o lebelele gongwe o tlhalose gore 17 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) kana re etse tlhoko gore dibanka fa gongwe; gongwe re bua ka movable assets o fitlhele gongwe o na le property e e worth than P10 million mme o batla go adima P2 million, banka e bo e tsaya collateral ya gago gongwe e e tsholetsa to P7 million.
I know they are doing it against risk, but then they do not allow you gore gongwe value eo fa wena o tsere P2 million o ntse o na le access ya gore there is P5 million gape o o ka mo tsayang, a ba go letlelele o ye kwa dibankeng tse dingwe o ye go tsaya madi.
Gore a mme golo mo fa molao o mogologolo gongwe dibanka di le very reluctant go thusa Batswana, ga o wele tota re bona e le gore tsone di collateral tsa dibanka ba ya go tsaya kgato ka tsela e e ntseng jang gongwe go bona gore ga ba fokotse thata value ya security kana madi a ba a go neelang against security sa gago?

I thank you.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ga ke a go utlwa, o boditse ka boleele, mme e ne o kare o ne o bua ka immovable property.
Fela ke ne ke re … MR SPEAKER: Minister, Honourable Thiite says you have property worth P7 million, you want to raise P2 million, the bank gives you P2 million, by the way, the whole P7 million is security.

That property worth P7 million o tlile go dira jang gore jaanong o tlaa dirisa jang dithoto tsa gago tsone tsa worth P7 million bone ba go neela P2 million.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ga ke batle gore re bue ka property, nna ke ne ke … ka movable assets.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR MOLEBATSI: Ee le tloga le ntia, e bile gongwe ga ke kgone go e araba ka gore ga ke kgone go e tlhaloganya.

A re …(interruption)… gape molao o a letlelela gore … HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go siame rra fa o na le mmidi o o worth P10 million, mmidi, ka o ntse o bua ka mmidi.

MR MOLEBATSI: O na le mmidi o o worth P10 million yes, ah, ga ke utlwe gore potso ke eng jaanong.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!


)… MR MOLEBATSI: Nnyaa, motho o rile o na le mmidi o o worth P10 million ... MR THIITE: On a point of clarification.

Alright, thank you again once more Mr Speaker.

Honourable Molebatsi ke ne ke re o na le movable property, o ruile dikgomo di le 100 di ntsha P1 million, dikgomo di worth P1 million, o bo o ya kwa bankeng o ya go adima P200 000.

The value of your asset in terms of dikgomo is P1 million.
Ke re traditionally fa re bua ka movable asset, mo go ntseng go le teng gongwe e le ntlo, banka e tlaabo e gana gore o ka dirisa the excess P800 000 gongwe go tswelela o itokafatsa mo business o adima gongwe kwa dibankeng tse dingwe, kana gone mo bankeng yone eo o kopa gore P200 million a okediwe maybe after six months e nne P600 000, dibanka di a gana.
Jaanong ka re gone mo fa e le gore go ntse go padile, a re dumela thata gore we are going to engage stakeholders go le kae gore ba thuse Batswana ba se ka ba nna reluctant mo melaong e?

MR MOLEBATSI: Ee kana tota molao ke principle, ga o prescribe gore banka e na le processes tsa yone tsa gore e itshireletse ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Jaanong se o se buang tota ga se gore ke se tlhaloganya mo go kalo.
Fela se ke ka se buang ke gore gompieno in terms of, ke tlaa fa example ka commodity ya agriculture, o na le mmidi, mme mmidi one oo fa e le gore go tsile nako e e leng gore o ka tswa o le worth P100 million, go tsile nako e e leng gore wena o bona gore prices tsa mmidi di kwa tlase o batla gore o o tshware o adime madi o tswelele o leme gape, o ka ya kwa dibankeng wa ya go bua le banka.
Jaanong eo Motlotlegi Thiite ya gore banka jaanong e dira tsamaiso ya yone e itshireletsa jang tota e thata gore ke e arabe.

Ke ne ke re ke tswelele ka jaanong go tlaa ntseela nako ya me, ga ke motho wa banka.

Se ke kgatelopele e tona thata, re gatetse pele thata, ke transformation yone e thata.
Ke yone e Goromente go tweng o fetola dilo, bagaetsho gore re tseye sebaka se re dirise mananeo a ka gore re kgona gore jaanong fa re na le warehouse certificates tsone tseo, e bo e le gore re kgona gore re adime madi.

Le go fetela kwa pele fela gone moo, re kgona gore fa re ntse re tsweletse jaanong mme se re tlaa tlang re se dira re le Puso, re le lefatshe,e bo e le gore jaanong re simolodisa commodities exchange.
Jaaka ke ne ke bua, mafatshe a tshwana bo Ethiopia jaana ba kgona gore, re establish commodity exchange as a vehicle of economic transformation re dirisa temo-thuo, ba rekisa kofi ya bone, ba rekisa mo commodity exchange ka gore golo mo tota ke lone lenaneo le e leng gore le ka re thusa.
Ke bo ke gatelela gape gore lenaneo le betsho gore re kgone, segolo jang gore rona kwa temo-thuong ke gore go nne le infrastructure, mme kana infrastructure 18 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) e ke buang ka yone, Goromente o gatetse pele o na le Special Economic Zones (SEZ), go na le nngwe kwa Pandamatenga, e nngwe kwa Selebi Phikwe.
Ke bolelele Batswana jaanong gore kana SEZs tse ke tsone tsa ga Goromente to partner le private sector gore fa go na le yo o agang warehouses tsone tseo; these are specialised warehouses, yo o tlaa tlang a tsamaisa warehouses tse, e tshwanetse e bo e le gore ke yo o recognised globally gore dilo tsa lona di kgone gore di rekwe.
Se ke sone se se tlaa dirang gore re ntshe temo-thuo ya rona e nne ya level e e leng gore ke ya global standards, re kgona go rekisa dilo kwa go bo Russia, fela jaaka re ne re reka mafura le sukiri kwa Brazil jalojalo.

Ke kgato e ntle fela thata Tona.

Ke ema molao o nokeng, go na le tse di ntsi tse re ka di buang.

Go na le gore o ka dirisiwa le mo makalaneng a a tshwanang bo music, arts, sports; o kgona go rekisa talent ya gago.
O kgona go ya kwa dibankeng e le gore o rekisa gore o motabogi wa 100 metres (m) go a itsiwe, go itsiwe gore go na le Diamond League go na le eng, you are likely to win this one and this one o bo o fiwa madi on the basis of that, because that talent is a movable property.

O kgona go rekisa pina; pina e go tweng Jerusalem ya yo ke mo ratang thata Master KG, e rekisitswe thata, bo You Tube ba reka dilo tse because it is a movable property.
Ka gore go a rekwa o a itse gore go na le market for this thing, o kgona go adima madi ka that immovable property ya gago e leng talent.

Kwa phelelong ke re Tona ke a go sapota, ke kgatelopele e ntlentle thata, re tlaa ema ka dinao re bona gore lefatshe le re le isa golo gongwe ka melao e e ntseng jalo.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Thank you very much.

MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke go dumedise le mothusi wa gago.


Ke dumedise Batlotlegi Mapalamente botlhe ba lefatshe la Botswana, ke re Modimo o nne le bone ka dinako le ka metlha, re sireletsege, ngwaga o mosha kwa go bone.

Ke bo ke dumedisa ba Nata-Gweta, ba e leng gore ba nna ba le mo merwaleleng mme gongwe ngwaga o o tlaa nna botoka, o kwa Sepako fela mme o kare go nna botoka.
Mr Speaker, ke emela go ema nokeng Molao-kakanyetso o. Batlotlegi Mapalamente ba buile ka bontsi, ba bo ba ntsha mabaka a fa o ba reeditse, fa Molao-kakanyetso o o ka feta wa tla wa dirisiwa se o se tshwanetseng, re tlaabo re diretse Batswana mpho e tonatona thata mo matshelong a bone le mo lefatsheng la bone.
Jaanong ke sone se ke reng molao o ke mongwe wa melao e e leng gore Mma Serame le dinako tse a tlaabong a se mo Palamenteng e, Batswana ba tlaa mo akanya ka one ka dingwaga tsone tseo ka gore botshelo jone ga bo eme.

Fa o bona le tswa le tsena jaana, go iwa kwa pele.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, this is a win-win type of law fa re tsaya ba informal sector le dibanka.
Ke gore it is a win-win situation ka gore fa re tsaya recession le COVID-19 ka fa di kokonetseng ka teng all sectors le matshelo a batho ka teng, o ka bona gore this type of law e ka nna teng, dibanka le tsone di tlaa simolola go tsoga ba nna le customers tse di tlaabong di le dintsi ka gore mo nakong ya gompieno ba beile thata mo fixed assets le matlo jaana.
Mo nakong ya gompieno re bona that market o na le bothata jwa gore jaanong Batswana ba simolola to lose their fixed assets jaaka matlo, bontsi jwa one ke a a rekisiwang fela e le gore they are attached.
Jaanong ke sone se ke reng by coming up with such a Bill, go tlaa dira gore botshelo bo nne le a brighter future for Batswana thata because bontsi jwa bone ba ba ka fetlhang ditiro, ke ba e leng gore ke the informal sector; bagwebi ba babotlana, especially mo kgaolong e e tshwanang le ya Nata-Gweta, ba bo nzamela, jalojalo ka gore tota ga re na some industries.
Fa ba ntse jalo ba na le dithoto tsa bone; dipodi, dikgomo, dipitse jaaka Honourable Kekgonegile a ne a bua ka gore ke tsone tse e leng gore ke yone khumo ya rona mo dikgaolong tse di tshwanang le tsa bo Nata-Gweta jaana.

Ke bona gompieno Nata Block e tsoga since last year mme jaaka ba na le diphologolo jaana, bangwe ba a di rekisa mo dipolaseng le mo masimong a bone a agro- tourism.

Jaanong this thing cuts across all the sectors.

Fa e ntse jaana, ke yone employment creation.


Jaanong ke tlaabo ke ya kwa mafokong a a kileng a fetisiwa ke Mopalamente Molao, a bua ka regulations gore those things mo molaong o, they must be in place totatota e bile di sekasekilwe gore di nne a tool which will facilitate this.
Gangwe le gape ga re dira melao e e ntseng jaana, fa gongwe re lebala some of these Clauses kana sengwe se e leng gore se ka nna in place to facilitate the law, e bo e nna just a white elephant or …(Inaudible)… Ke buisiwa se Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ka gore Botswana o dirile a lot of policies and programmes around the world.
Mo Africa e le lengwe la mafatshe a ntlha, tse dingwe ba setse ba di kopile, ke tsone tse mafatshe a humileng ba setseng ka tsone ba di dirisa, ba tla go benchmark, ba bo ba di dira ka fa ba di dirang ka teng.

Jaanong such a law e batla gore e tle e dirwe 19 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ka bofefo.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ntse ke le mo kgannyeng yone eo, e e leng gore e na le transformation le sengwe le sengwe mo go yone, these immovable properties or whatever di ya go kgontsha Batswana ba re bonang mo dingwageng tse e leng the youth, bontsi jwa bone ga ba na mortgage kana eng tse e leng gore di teng.

go tlaabo go tsena 2023, batho ba tlaabo jaanong ba sia ba ya go batla to renew dikonteraka.
Jaanong melao fa e dirwa nako e e ntseng jaana jaaka yone e, ke bona go siame thata gore re bue ka yone, e re go padile, bangwe re ye go tshela ka yone re bone gore mme melao e e tshwanang le yone, le rona ba re senang any fixed assets jaana jaaka bo jarata, motho o ka ya go tsaya.
Fa o ka tsaya value base ya immovable property mo Botswana, o ya go fitlhela e le gore e na le madi a mantsi go feta sengwe le sengwe ka gore Batswana kana bana ba rona re a itse gore fa ba simolola go bereka fela ba reka dikoloi, ba reka eng, bangwe ba reka dipodi.

Jaanong fa o tsaya value base fela o lebelela bontsi jwa yone, o ya go fitlhela e le gore there is another market to turn through.
Go bo go raya gore e ya go thusa bone gore jaanong with that movable property, ba ba kgonang go nna le those fixed assets go di reka ba ka kgona to venture into agriculture e re bonang dipodi di tlhaela kgakala jaaka maphakela mo go neng go buiwa mo radio gore manyena a dipodi ga a rekwe ka gore ga di yo mme e na le market wa maArabia le tse dingwe jalojalo.

Ke dilo tse dintsi fela tse e leng gore if these things go through jaaka re e ema nokeng jaana, re bona e le gore botshelo bo teng.
Gape e ka bo e araba selelo se Batswana ba ntseng ba se bua, le ba e leng gore ba batona e seng the youth fela, ba e leng gore dingwaga gongwe on pensions, o fitlhela e le gore tota ga o na sepe se se kalo, o na le dikgomonyana, dipodi, sengwenyana se sennyennyane kana koloi.

Jaanong by so doing, these things di ya go dira gore dilo tse di kgonagale Mr Speaker.

Mangwe a mafoko a mantle ke a a neng a buiwa ke Honourable Molebatsi kwa lephateng la gagwe le a leng mo go lone.
Le mo lebogise a le koo ka o ne a tswa kwa trade, a a tsamaelana maphata one a, a e leng gore a ka re dilo tse di dirwa, e bo e le bone e se dibanka fela.

Maphata a a tshwanang le a Trade le Agriculture le e leng gore le kwa tlase, a bo a ka kopanela dilo tsone tse, then le bo le tsenya mo go million and accelerate Honourable Molemole because fa le ka se ke le drive, ba dibanka ba ya go nna slow, then le badirelapuso.
Jaanong go botoka o drive go na le go palelwa, re tlaa sala re re Honourable Molemole, re bona gore kwa trade ba ne ba lomaganya tiro mme ra nna le maduo.

Ke buisiwa seo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke re le melao e ke dumalana le yone gore this Bill e bo e tlile ka dinako tse.

Mongwe o ka re why?

Ke dumalana le yone ka gore e tsile ka nako e e siameng ka gore next year ga o na go bona quorum Mr Speaker.
Se se kile sa diragalela rona ba re neng re le gone fa, Batswana ba bo Sepako, Manxotai le ba Tsokotshaa, ba e leng gore gompieno jaana ba na le clusters ba a di dira.

Ke ntse ke encourage, dikoporase kwa bo Tsokatshaa, kwa Thabatshukudu kwa e leng gore fa o batla pitse, kgomo kana podi o a di bona.
Fa ke sengwe se e leng gore ke ka bua le sone ba se tlhaloganya mme re tlaabo re se tlhoka, re bo re tlhoka le tsone dibanka gore le bone, especially Mma Serame, ka ke wena o lebaganeng le tsone, re itse gore those are private sector.

O nne e re fa go nna le substitutes tse di ntseng jaana di fetile through Palamente, ba nne ba bonala le bone ba bua.

Batswana ba setse ba re bo CEDA le NDB, fa gongwe o fitlhela e le gore ke ba ditoropo fela kana ba bo Pandamatenga.
If such a development is in place, le bone ga re nako nngwe ba kgabole kwa bo Mathangwane, Maitengwe, Mmathubudukwane, Tamasane, then o tlaa bona jaanong hope e nna teng mo Batswaneng gore mme gompieno go ntse jaana.

Batswana ba ba ntseng ba lela le mo bo Duma FM, Yarona FM, ke bone ba e leng gore it is the working class.

Ba na le dikoloi and assets.

They are the driving machine of this economy, the youngsters.
I think this is a piece of a legislation which you will as well need mo press conferences le mo radios, ba utlwe o bua ka one.

Ba se ka ba re ba lebetswe Mr Speaker.

MR MOLEBATSI: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Ke gatelela mafoko a o a buang ka Batswana ba ba nang le dikoloi ba, ke ba ba mo ditirong.

Ke sone se ke neng ke se bua ke re, middle class strategy ya rona e e kwa Lephateng la Peeletso, Papadi le Madirelo, melao e, re lebagane le bone gore ba ye go itirela matshelo.
Ba bangwe ba tswe mo ditirong ba kgone go adima madi.

Ke a go leboga mokaulengwe.

MR MAJAGA: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Go botlhokwa thata gore go diragale jalo.

Re a itse gore mo go Goromente ke zero growth.

Then fa go ntse jalo, ke gore Batswana ba akanye ka pela gore ba tsene into private sector and informal sector.

The market kwa, competition e setse e le thata.

All graduates ba ntse ba lebile Goromente.

O ka tsaya sekai ka maintern.


A lot of them ba tswa kwa Botswana University of Agriculture 20 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) and Natural Resources (BUAN) le Botho.

Ke bone ba ba tletseng mo ba le Computer Engineers.

Jaanong ke re, such a move will help.

Jaaka Honourable Members of Parliament (MPs) ba ba akgetseng before, ba ne ba bua botlhokwa jwa teng.
We must see it a point through our relevant committees’ gore fa o feta is enforced especially our stage e re tlaabong re le mo go yone 2022/2023.

Ke solofela gore melao e, e feta, e tlaa saeniwa ka bofefo.

Re tshwanetse re bone gore a mme it is enforced.

Go bo go nna le kgang ya education e e neng ya buiwa ke Honourable Member.

In short, go tshwanetse gore kwa dikhanseleng le mo Dikgotleng jaaka Honourable Tausi le Leuwe ba ne ba feleletsa diphuthego, re nne le monyetla o gore e nne Bible ya rona.
Batho kwa Takatokwane le Nata, matshelo a bone ke one.

Ba mo ditafoleng fela, ba bo ba rekisa.

Fa ba ka utlwa good news, I think le bone ga ba ka ke ba re lebala Man-Luu.

Ba tlaa nna ba itse.

Ba ga Monnakgotla ba settlements ga ba ka ke ba lebala ope.

That is why ke re, it is a win-win type of legislation e e tlaa thusang dibanka go gola le matshelo a batho le one a gole.

Ka go rialo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke latlhele la mmotlana le nna.

We are together, mme implementation a re e bone.


Ke yone e e setseng e bolaile sengwe le sengwe.

Go mo go rona ka gore ke rona re kgweetsang.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Thank you my leadership.

Mr Speaker, bakaulengwe ba sa tswa go supa kemonokeng ya molao wa ga Motlotlegi Serame.

Ke eme fa ke supe gore molao o, o tshwanetse go engwa nokeng ka maatlametlo le matsetseleko ka fa kopo e ntseng ka teng.
Mr Speaker, ke kopa gore Honourable Serame fa a tla go akgela mo dikakgelong tsa bakaulengwe, a tswele kwa ntle.

E nne Honourable Serame yo re mo itseng.

A supe gore molao o gore gompieno o bo o le fa pele ga rona ka fa tlase ga kopo ya Palamente ya Pitso ya Tshoganetso mo Recommendations tse 40, ene o wela fa kae?

Re kgone gore re tsamaye re le mmogo, re se ka ra mmelaela.

A se ka a re fa a paletsweng ke tiro teng, a bo a ya go iphitlha ka recommendations di le masome mane.
E le gore sentlentle fa re bona recommendations tse di masome mane tse, di sa amane le kgang e gotlhelele.

Ke se ke neng ke ka mo kopa gore a tle a leke gore mme morwarre, o ntshenya leina fela.

Recommendation e e mpatikileng gore ke tlise molao o ka potlako, ke ya gore, ya gore.

A bo a re e balela jaaka a ne a supa gore o tlaa tsaya five minutes.

Fa e le mo nakong ya gagwe o ka tsaya 10 minutes ga go tshwenye.

A tlhalosa recommendation e e ntseng jalo.


Go batla a e bale, a bo a re bula matlho go ya pele.

Ke gone fa ke neng ke ka simolola teng.

Mr Speaker, dikgang tsa dithoto tse di tsamayang di botlhokwa.
Ke ne ka bona banka nngwe mo lefatsheng la Botswana e santse e goroga, dibanka tse di saleng di simolola le lefatshe di mpeile fa le fa, go sena jaaka ke ka bona security, e le Bank of India, ba nthaya ba re, “o ka dira koloi ya gago security fela, re bo re go neela madi.” Ke re, “koloi”, ba re, “ee, koloi.” Ka bo ke ba neela koloi, ba bo ba ntsha madi.

Ke go ba neela blue book jwa koloi, ba bo ba ntsha madi.

Ke bo ke kgona gore ka tiro e e ntseng jalo, seemo se bo se tswelela.

Ke ba duela ke iketlile.


Ga ke ise ke bo ke nne le makgwere le bone.

Mo dibankeng tse re itseng gore di agile lefatshe le, nnyaa, ba ne ba bona gore ke mohumanegi wa nta ya tlhogo, tota le go nkgadima ba sa nkgadime.

E rile morago, banka e, e bo e tsena mo seporong sa dibanka tse e di fitlhetseng mo gae.

Fa re dirile molao jaana, e sa tlhole e le Manager a itseelang ditshwetso, re itse gore molao o a patika gore batho ba thusiwe ka tse ba nang natso, go ka nna botlhokwa thata.
Go ka nna molemo o o siameng.

Batswana gompieno re tshwanetse re supe gore ba a humanega ka dithoto tse ba di tshwereng ka gore go patelesega gore ba rekise.

Ga ba di dire e le security gore go tsweng foo, e bo e le gore ba ya go busa madi a ba a tsereng kwa bankeng ka dithoto tse ba neng ba na natso; e ka tswa e le leruo kana diterekere tse di tonatona.

Ba felela ba rekisa gore ba tswelela ba dire sengwe.
Mo e leng gore motho o ka bo a tswa go tsaya loan a tlogetse blue book kwa bankeng a bo a tswelela a ya go dirisa terekere eo go netefatsa gore mabaka a a neng a batla, o a thiba go ya pele.

Jaaka bakaulengwe ba ne ba bua Mr Speaker, ke kgang e e ka nnang molemo thata.

Ga re ka ke ra bona diofisi tse e le gore Honourable Serame o dirile fela gore di bonwe kwa Gaborone.

O itse gore molao o a neng a o dira, o ne a o direla Batswana.

Ditlamelo di tshwanetse di latele Batswana, e seng ba simolola mosepele.
O mmotsa gore, “o ya kae”, a bo a re, “ke ya go tsoma ofisi e ke ka bonang dithuso kwa go yone.” E le gore fa a tswang teng, diofisi tsa Puso di teng ka mefutafuta.

Office e e ka mo thusang gore a bone ditlamelo tse gotweng madi, o tshwanetse a e latele kwa Gaborone.

Ga ke itse gore Mr Speaker, e rile mafatshe a mangwe a dira jalo ka bontsi, se se neng sa dira gore re centralise dilo gore di nne Gaborone, ke 21 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) mang yo a neng a tla ka mogopolo o o ntseng jalo?

Re tshwanetse re lebelele kwa botlhabatsatsi fela, ke gone kwa thuso ya rona e ka tswang teng.

Ke gone ka fa ba ba neng ba latetse naledi, ba tswa botlhabatsatsi.

Ke sone se se dirileng gore ditlhabololo tsa rona di nne kwa botlhabatsatsi Mr Speaker.

MR LESEDI: On a point of clarification Mr Speaker.

Mma ke go leboge Mr Speaker.

Ke go leboge motlotlegi.


E re ntswa kgang e ke e utlwisisa sentle, e o e tshwereng mo Bill e re e buang, o supe seemo sa gago bogolo jang mo dikadimong tse, go lejwa dingwaga tsa Batswana, e bile di ba baya kwa mosing.

E tle e re kwa phelelong ya letsatsi, o supe gore what is your take mo go yone?

A go siametse gore e re kwa phelelong e bo e kete it disadvantages ba bangwe ntswa ba na le tse ba nang natso, e le gore ba bolawa ke dingwaga?

Ka ga ke na go bua, o fete ka yone mogolole.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

MR REATILE: Mma ke go leboge Mr Speaker gore mokaulengwe a bo a tsile ka tshedimoso eo.

Nnyaa mokaulengwe, mo kgannyeng e ya dingwaga, re tshwanetse re e tlhamalatse.

Dingwaga di ne di ka bereka bogologolo gore di setse di go siile.

Honourable Serame le ene o a itse gore motho yo e leng monana kwa go ene yo a mo hirang, ke yo o setseng a le 45.

Botlhe ba a nang le bone mo ofising e santse e le banana ke interns fela, ke baitlhaopi, ga se ba ba hirwang.
E tlaa re mo botsofeng jwa bone fa a ka retire a le 45, e tlaabo e le gone a bonang offer letter e e mmolelelang gore jaanong ke first appointment ya gagwe.

Bona gore motho yo o tshwanetse a bereke 10 years, a bone gore o aga fa a ka beelang bana ba gagwe mogope teng.

Go tswa foo kamoso fa a re o batla loan e nngwe gape gatwe nnyaa, nako ya gago e setse e tšhaile, kana rona ga re adime pensioners madi.

Mo dingwageng tsone tseo, mo Pusong ya ga Honourable Serame e a bo e santse e le monana.
Jaanong o tshwanetse e re fa a dira molao o, a o dire a itse gore she is catering for batho ba ba simololang go bereka ba le bo 39 to 45 years.

A itse gore fa ba santse ba le bo 25 years ga ba hirwe, e a bo e le baitlhaopi fela, ba a bo ba santse ba kalapa mo dipateng ka gore Honourable Serame o a bo a santse a dumela gore ga ba ise ba nonofele go ka bereka.

Ke tsone dikgang tse re tshwanetseng re supe tota gore ka one mabaka a a kalo, mo go tseo tsa pensions tota re patika batho.
Ba bangwe ee, motho ga a ise a ko a bereke mo botshelong, mme a iperekile a na le dithoto but fa a tsena kwa bankeng, dibanka di bo di gana go mo adima madi.

Honourable Serame o tshwanetse a bone gore o emela Batswana ba go nna jaana ka dinao gore ba nne le tshwanelo ya gore go nne le dikadimo kwa ba ka di bonang teng mo dibankeng tsa lefatshe la Botswana, ba tswelele ba direle bana ba bone boswa ka fa go tshwanetseng ka teng.
E seng gore re bo re re jaanong dingwaga di siile, mme dingwaga tse di neng di tshwanetse ga re ise re ko re neele motho tshwanelo ya gore o ka bereka gope mo a neng a ka kgona gore a bone loan ka dingwaga tse dibanka di buang ka tsone.

Ke tsone dikgang tse re tshwanetseng re di supe motlotlegi.
Kgang e nngwe e le yone re neng re tshwanetse go e supa fa ke gore a mme jaaka ke ntse ke utlwa bakaulengwe ba bua gore ba ‘dikgwebo tse di potlana, ba dikgwebo tse di potlana,’ mme e ntse re itse gore the regulations ke tsone tse di tlaa tlang di supa tota gore botshelo jwa batho ba dikgwebo tse di potlana e tlaabo e le jo bo ntseng jang.
Kana re kgona go fetisa molao jaana Mr Speaker, e bo e le gore kamoso bone ba re neng re bua ka bone fa re fetisa molao, le bone ba nna le tsholofelo, ba simolola ba boaboa kwa diofising tsa rona ba re kana molao le o fetisitse, ke tswa kwa bankeng, dibanka di a gana, mme mabaka e le fela gore Honourable Serame e rile fa a ya go dira regulations, a bo a tsaya tshwetso ya gore o tlogela Batswana ba le bantsintsi kwa ntle ka regulations fela.
E rile fa re debate molao re o fetisa, re mo support ka mowa o le mongwefela, re bo re mo ema nokeng gore Batswana botlhe jaanong re bua ka inclusive economy e re tshwanetseng re itse gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe o tlaa tsaya karolo mo teng.
Jaanong fa ba setse ba tsaya tshwetso ya go dira regulations ba bo ba simolola ba ntse ba re ba tshwanetse e ye go nna badisa, ga ba na tshwanelo ya gore ba ka tla go adima madi mo dibankeng, kgalemeletsa dithoto tsa bone kwa ntle, motho o tshwanetse a ntshe security, e bo e le gore o tlogela tsa go nna jaana kwa ntle.
Jaaka o itse gore e kile ya re maloba fale land board ya tsaya tshwetso ya gore fa o na le setsha ga o ka ke wa se rekisa, high court e bo e nna yone e e tlang e re nnyaa, motho o iphema ka se a nang le sone.
Gongwe le gompieno re a bo re tlaabo re fetisa molao o ka botswerere jo Honourable Serame a buang ka jone, a kopa gore molao o re o eme nokeng e bo e le gore kamoso o tla a fetotse mebala e le gore fa a ya go dira regulations, o a bona tota gore tse ga se tsone tse re neng re eletsa gore di ka nna teng mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
Jaanong ka gore tsone ga a di kopele tshwanelo epe kwa Palamenteng, fa o fetisitse molao o o reng o tlaa tla a dira regulations, o ya go di dira koo a sa tla go batla blessings tsa Palamente.

Go bo go raya gore ka tsela e e ntseng jaana, Batswana botlhe ba nna mo legoeleleng, ba ipotsa gore gatwe Palamente 22 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) e, a e direla batho ba ditšhaba di sele molao kana e direla batho ba ba tshelang mo lefatsheng la Botswana molao.

Go bo go raya gore Batswana ka bokete e nna babogedi fela mo itsholelong ya lefatshe la bone le ba fitlhelang batsadi ba bone ba le bereketse ka bothata gompieno le jewa ke ditšhaba di sele.

Bone e le ba ba berekang go letsa mogolokwane fela.
Mr Speaker, kana gompieno fela fa o re o a tswelela mo lefatsheng la Botswana, o setse o nna target, o nna legodu or yo o corrupt, mme wa letso le sele fela yo e leng gore ga se Motswana, le fa a ne a tla a tsamaya ka mpeetšhane, fa a huma gatwe batho ba tlhaga, Batswana ba dibodu.

Yo o tlhagafalang e le Motswana gatwe yo o ke yo o senyang.

O ipotsa gore gatwe curse e e aparetseng leadership ya rona mo go bitseng Batswana gore ba tshwanetswe ke lehuma ke ya mofuta ofe.
Ke ofe yo o ka se keng e re kamoso ra felela re raya Batswana re re le a bona gore ngwana wa ga mmasemangmang, ngwana wa ga rasemangmang o ne a ngakalala go le kae, e bile gompieno o tsamaya kwa kae.
Dilo tse Mr Speaker, re tshwanetse re di bue, di se ka tsa re tlhabisa ditlhong ka gore dilo tse dingwe re a itse gore ke tse go nang le ba e leng gore fa o associate le bone e le ba ba tswang kwa ntle, go a itsiwe gore fa o tsamaya ka koloi go raya gore o mo partnership le companies tsa Asia jaanong o siame o na le tshwanelo ya khumo.

Fa o partner le ba ba tswang kwa settlements tsa lefatshe la Botswana, mo metseng ya lefatshe la Botswana, lona le magodu fela, ga le a tshwanelwa ke gore le ka huma.
Fa Puso ya ga Honourable Serame e leba Batswana jaana, e bona e le badiidi fela ba bahumanegi ba e leng gore ga ba ka ke ba ba ba tswelela mo botshelong.

Yo o ka tswelelang fela ke yo Honourable Serame a mo tsereng (order) go tswa kwa Asia a feta a mo neela tenders.

Tsone dilo tseo Honourable Serame o tshwanetse o simolole o ikgadime, o ipotse gore gatwe mowa o o nang le one mo go nyenyafatseng Batswana ka bokete jo bo kanakana, e ka tswa e le wa mofuta ofe, e ka tswa e le o o bakiwang ke eng.
Gongwe re tle re go direle le koša, re go kopele koša fela maSione ba go direle koša.

Ga go pala kwa maSioneng, re tlaa go direla all-night prayer kwa fire gore jaanong o tle o simolole o amogele Batswana.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O gaketse wa re Puso ya ga Honourable Serame.

MR REATILE: Sentle le gone.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Goromente wa gago.

MR REATILE: Kana o a itatola comrade.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A ko o didimale wena Keorapetse, ke bua le kgaitsadiake.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR REATILE: Se nne o tsaya kgaitsadiake jalo, ke ne ke mo gakolola fela gore go na le fa re ka mo phekolang ka teng.

Ga re mo phekole ka diditse tsa kgokong, re ka mo phekola fela ka maSione le ba fire a bo a siama, a bo a simolola jaanong a tsena mo tseleng.

Ga go bereke seditse sa kgokong.
Ka one mabaka a Honourable Speaker, ke ne ke dumela gore Tona o utlwile, se ke neng ke kopa gore ka tsweetswee a se gadime, a bo a bone tota gore e tshwanetse e re le fa a tsamaya go nne gotwe Tona o kile a tla e le Honourable Serame, e le Tona ya ntlha ya mme, a tla go netefatsa gore re le batho ba re neng re le dikobodikhutshwane, a netefatsa gore fa go buiwa ka inclusive economy, a re tsaya rotlhe a re tshwara ka diphuka tsa tshwaro, ra ba ba fitlha kwa batho ba ntseng ba tshela teng, le rona ra tsena mo matlong a matona ka fa batho ba ntseng ba tshela ka teng.
Ke sone se ke kopang gore ka one molao o, o itirele motlhala, mme o se ka wa ba wa leka gore fa o tswa Honourable Serame, o bo o itebatsa gore kgang e e ntseng ke simolola ka yone ke go raya ke re o tle o re kaetse gore wa re recommendations tse 40 o tsamaya mo go efe ka molao o. O re kaetse gore o tsamaya fa kae ka gore ke setse ke bona gore mongwe le mongwe wa lona ke yo o tlang fela a ntse a re recommendations tsa FATF le ESAAMLG, no, no, no, le se ka la re tsaya jalo e kete jaanong le bua le batho ba le kwa tengnyanateng.
Le bua le batho ba kwa le tsereng information teng le rona re e tsayang teng.

Jaanong le se ka la leka gore le sie ka rona e bo e le gore jaanong re kobakoba mogatla wa losie go ntse gotwe ‘recommendations, recommendations’ e le gore mme le a itse gore batho ba o buang le bone ba na le matlho ba a bona, ba na le ditsebe ba a utlwa.

Ga re tshwane le ba ba bonweng ke Bible ba gotweng ba na le ditsebe ga ba utlwe, ba na le matho mme ga ba bone.

Re na le ditsebe re a utlwa, re na le matlho re a bona.
Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re ke akgele fela go le kana, ke se ka ka ja nako e ntsi.

Ke tswerefala thata mo go somareleng nako Mr Speaker, ka go rialo, ke a leboga.

MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Thank you Honourable Speaker.

Ke a dumedisa rraetsho.

Fela jaaka bakaulengwe le nna tshokologong eno mo ngwageng o moša o, o ke eletsang gore o tlele mongwe le mongwe ka masego le matlhogonolo.

Gongwe ke bo ke kope le bakaulengwe gore gongwe re tle re tsetswe seša.
23 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Fa ke buisa diphuthego Mr Speaker, Batswana ba ne ba ngongorega thata ka fa re itshwarang ka teng mo Palamenteng, e bile bangwe ba ngongoregela gore ga re rute bana sepe.

Gongwe ke kope batlotlegi gore a re teng re tsetswe seša, re tlotlane.

Re tle re rute bana go tlotlana ka gore re tshwanetse go nna bokaedi.
Ke batla go supa gore ke lebogisa botlhe ba ba kgonneng go bone maemo a maša rraetsho, ke ba eleletsa masego le katlego, mme e bile re tlaa ba ema nokeng gore ba kgone.

Le rona ba re eme nokeng gore re kgone kwa dikgaolong ka go isa ditlamelo kwa dikgaolong ka gore re tlhoka ditlamelo mo go bone.

Ga go na sepe se re se ngongoregelang mo go bone.

Se re ka se ngongoregelang fela ke fa ba setse ba sa ise ditlamelo kwa bo Takatokwane.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke eletsa go itebaganya le Movable Property (Security Interests) Bill, 2021 (No.

49 of 2021).

Ke eletsa go supa fela ke ropame gore, ke dumela gore fa e le gore e ka ya go tsamaya jaaka ke eletsa kgotsa ke bona, e ne e tlaabo e itebagantse thata le dikgaolo tse re di emetseng tsa kwa tengnyanateng.

Lebaka la me e le gore, movable properties bontsi jwa tsone di kwa dikgaolong tse di tshwanang tsa bo Takatokwane.
Re bua ka bo leruo le le tshwanang dikgomo, dipitse, bo eng, dilo tse e leng gore dinako tse tsotlhe e tle e re fa o re o ya go di isa e le security go bo go sa dumalanwe, mme e le tsone tse wena o nang le tsone di ka kgona go go thusa mo go reng o bone sekoloto go tsweledisa botshelo jwa gago.
Jaanong fa e le gore molao o o tlaa tla go itebaganya le dikgang tse, ke dumela gore ba Takatokwane ba tlaa o galaletsa thata ba o leletse mogolokwane, ka gore ba ruile e bile ba eletsa gore ba oketse botshelo jwa bone.

Maloba e ne e re fa o re o ya go kopa loan o isa security e le leruo, go bo go nna le dikgang tsa gore leruo le a swa ga o se selo se o ka se ntshang e le security, mme e le lone o nang le lone.
O tsaya sekai fela jaaka ke a tle ke bone borre ba ke ba ratang thata ba ba ratang go ema fa Sefalana le Builders’World ba ba bidiwang bo “ke ka go thusa,” o tlaa fitlhela a eme foo ka koloi ya gagwe a eletsa go thusa batho, mme a ba thusa a na le dikgomo.

Fa a re o ya go kopa loan ga a reediwe.


This time around ke dumela gore batho ba ba tshwanang le bo “ke ka go thusa” ba ba nang le dikolotsana tsa bone go thusa batho, ka gore matshelo a malwapa a bone bo a bo bo le mo diatleng tsa yone koloi eyo e a bidiwang “ke ka go thusa” ka yone.

A eletsa gore gongwe a gole, but a na le leruo le a ka le ntshang e le security gore a kgone go godisa botshelo jwa gagwe.
This time around go supa gore, fa e le gore e ka re le ya go dira regulations jaaka ke go itse ke go tshepha Honourable Serame, ke dumela gore e tlaa re o dira regulations tseo, they will cover Batswana ba ba kwa gae ba ba sa itseng sepe ka mantlo, ga ba itse sepe ka dikgang tse dintsi tse di mo ditoropong.

Botshelo jwa bone bo remeletse mo leruong, e bile ba ka oketsa botshelo fa leruo la bone le ka ntshiwa as security gore ba tswelele ba oketse botshelo jwa bone.
Ke dumela gore fa re ka tlhwaafalela gore re bone gore leruo le nna le palo, ke gore re tlhwaafalele kgang ya bakenti, e e tshwanang ya maloba fa morago fale e boele, bakenti ba ye kwa dikgaolong kwa dikgomo di leng teng ba tswe mo ditoropong.

Ba tswe mo ministries ba ye kwa dikgaolong kwa dikgomo di leng teng, ba ye go dira dikgomo gore di nne le boleng jo e tlaa reng fa o e isa le wena o re ke security, motho a bone tota gore e e na le value.
Bakenti ba ne ba re kentela dikgomo, ba re ruta ka fa re tshwanetseng go di tlhokomela ka teng, ba le teng mo dikgaolong.

E seng ba dira ka remote, mo o letsang o utlwa gotwe mokento o kwa Gaborone.

Ke eletsa gore re boele kwa morago kwa marakanelong a ditsela, re ye go bona gore tota temothuo ya rona re kgaogane le yone fa kae, fa jaanong e sa tlholeng e re sologela molemo.

Ke dumela gore molao o gore o ye go bereka sentle, ke gore re emele temothuo ka dinao thata re boele kwa morago.
Re tlogele go nna e re motho a emela kwa Dutlwe, Tshwaane kana Tsetseng, a latela malengana a dikgomo kwa Molepolole, e re a tsena a bo a fitlhela gotwe go ne go thusiwa batho ba le 30 fela.

O bo o ipotsa fa go thusiwa batho ba le 30 kwa Molepolole, yo o tswang kwa Dutlwe le Tsetseng kwa go sena transport teng, a mo palong e e 30 e o tlaa kgona go tsena mo teng.
Re leke go decentralise thata dilo tse di amang temothuo, re di ise kwa dikgaolong gore re tle re ye go oketsa boleng jwa leruo le e leng lone re ka le ntshang e le bontlha bongwe jwa security gore re kgone go tsholetsa matshelo a rona.

Ke eletsa go supa fela gore Molao-kakanyetso o o tlile ka nako, le fa bangwe ba re o ka bo o se …(Inaudible)…, sengwe le sengwe se na le nako e se gorogang ka yone.
Ke sone se Modimo mo Bible e e boitshepho go kwadilwe gore, dikakanyo tsa rona ga se tsa Modimo, e bile dikakanyo tsa Modimo ga se tsa rona, o na le tsa gagwe.

Ke dumela gore molao o o tlile ka nako e e tshwanetseng, e re tshwanetseng go buisana ka yone gore tota gore o 24 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) sologele Batswana molemo ke gore re o dire ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Regulations di botlhokwa thata, re tlile go fetisa molao go ya fela jaaka Honourable Reatile a ne a bua.

Fa re sena go o fetisa, Batswana ke batho ba ba reetsang thata fa Palamente e tsene, e bile ba utlwa gore molao o fetisitsweng ba bo ba ya go tsaya podi, kgomo, ntsa, sekgoropana sa gago sa koloi le sengwe le sengwe tota o ka ya go se ntsha e le security, ba ya go tsena kwa diofising ba batla ditlhaloso.
Fa go dirwa regulations, ke tsone mmangmang fela jaaka Honourable Ramogapi a ne a bua ka kgang ya implementation.

Implementation e dirwa ke regulations, mme fa re ka di dira ka tsela e re tlaa simololang gape di favour ba ba nnang mo ditoropong, go tlaabo go raya gore molao o ga o ye go nna mosola le Batswana.
O o ne o tla fela tota o tliseditswe Batswana kwa dikgaolong, mo e leng gore fa re ka ya go ela tlhoko thata mo regulations, implementation ya teng e ya go nna motlhofo, e ama thata Batswana ba ba kwa dikgaolong, o tlaabo o sologetse Batswana molemo.

Sengwe se ke neng ke eletsa gore pele ga ke wela, ka ke motho wa go sireletsa nako thata gore … OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Elucidation.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke leboge motlotlegi.


Motlotlegi, o a utlwala ka molao o montle o o buang, ka gore kwa kgaolong e o tswang kwa go yone bogolo jang Motokwe le Takatokwane di tshwana le dikgaolo tsa bo Kgalagadi North, tse go nang le badiragatsi le dikhwaere.

Molao- kakanyetso o o tlile go sireletsa ba dikhwaere, ka gore le bone ba tlile go nna le tshono ya gore ba kgone go adima madi.

Ba tlile go adima madi Mr Speaker, though intellectual property le copyrights.
Rona ba re tswang kwa Takatokwane le Motokwe kwa re nang le dikhwaere tse di tlhokana le uniform, le bodiragatsi ba itse go bina thata e bile ba itse go opela, Molao-kakanyetso o ke one konokono.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR LEUWE: Ke a leboga Honourable Monnakgotla, go ntse jalo mmaetsho.

Tota one fela fa o o tsaya o o lebelela sentle, o ne o direlelwa rona.

Ke sone se ke kopang gore fa regulations tsa one di dirwa, go remelelwe thata kwa go lebeng gore a di ama thata batho ba ba kwa dikgaolong.
Ke ne ke santse ke re ke tsena mo go reng, le conditions tsa dituelo fa go setse go duelwa, di dirwe ka tsela e e leng gore ga di ye go babalela ba ba tlaabong ba adimile madi.

Di dirwe ka tsela e ba tlaa di kgonang, di se ka ka dirwa ka tsela e gongwe e tlaabong e nna jaanong go ya go dirwa gore go paledisiwe go duela, gore kamoso go bo gotwe ke bao ba a palelwa.
Re se ka ra dira molao o jaanong kamoso o bo o sa …(Inaudible)… sentle o dira gore jaanong e nne o kare Batswana ba a palelwa, mme tota ba paledisiwa ke ka fa re dirileng molao ka teng.

Ka mabaka one a makhutshwane Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke supa gore ke eme Molao- kakanyetso o nokeng gore o ye go tsena mo tirisong, o sologele Batswana molemo.

Re tlaabo re o lebile gore a tota o ya kwa dikgaolong thata.
Ke dumela thata gore o ka re berekela, ka gore go ntse go sena sebaka sa go dirisa movable properties.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): I am sorry Mr Speaker, pardon my ignorance and something that happened earlier around.

I was raising my hand in case other members are not speaking from my team.

The other thing is that, I wanted to say I think Mme Monnakgotla had an arrangement le Mme Mokgethi, gore a tseye slot sa gagwe.
Mr Speaker, I am okay, you can give Mma Monnakgotla if you wish.

MR SPEAKER: No, we do not work that way, o ka di bua koo le tsala ya gagwe.

MR TSOGWANE: Okay Mr Speaker, I do not want to enrage you, I am not intending to enrage you Mr Speaker, let me take my slot... MR SPEAKER: You are not enraging me, I am following what your Whip said.
MR TSOGWANE: Thank you, ga ke batle go bua go le gontsi jaaka ke ne ke bua, tota e ne ele gone go gatelela fela gongwe ke supe jalo gore, molao o o o botlhokwa thata jaaka bakaulengwe ba ntse ba bua.

O botlhokwa fela thata jaaka ba supa ba o ema nokeng mme fela ba bangwe ba le bete se molangwana gore gongwe o ka bo o satla.

Re saitse gore o ka bo o satla ka mabaka afe.


Molao o o botlhokwa thata, e bile go supagetse jalo gore ba bangwe ba ne ba tlhalosa gore o tshwaragana sentle le dikgang tse tsa borukutlhi ka gore re bua ka property, re bua ka se se nang le madi, se se nang le value.

Se se tshwanetse le sone sa nna bontlha bongwe jwa tsotlhe tse di ka dirang transactions tse di ka felelang di se ka fa tsamaisong.
So ga ke itse gore gatwe ga o amane fa kae le tsamaiso tse re batlang go babalela madi a lefatshe le ditsamaiso tse re tlaabong re trader le one.

Kana fa re trader jaana molao o jaaka re o dira under ESAAMLG re raya gore security se should apply le fa e le gore o 25 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) kopa go ya go dira dikgwebo gongwe kwa lefatsheng le lengwe, dibanka di kgone go go thusa.
E seng fela gore go bo go ganelelwa mo lefatsheng la rona.

Ke sone se o bonang melao e jaana e tlaabo e nyalana le melao e mengwe ya mafatshe a mangwe.

Jaanong ke ne ke re gongwe ke supe ntlha e ya gore, nnyaa re se ka ra rontsha Batswana tshwanelo e e ba lebaganeng fela ka gore gongwe ga re itumelele gore molao o ka bo o tlile le e mengwe e, o lebega o kare one o pharologanyo.
Melao e yotlhe e e tswa mo maphateng a a farologanyeng, go na le molao wa dikompone o o tlaabong o tsena le one, jaanong melao e yotlhe e e nnile teng ka lebaka le re ntseng re le bua.

Le selelo sa Batswana re ntse re se utlwa ba lela ka sone ba batla security, ba sa kgone go ipha sepe ba tshelela mo lehumeng.

Golo mo go tlaa ba thusa gore ba tswe lehumeng le ba ntseng ba tshelela mo go lone Mr Speaker.

Re ntse re beile mo mafatsheng a mangwe a a tlhabologileng ka dithuso, development aid.
Re ntse re beile mo mafatsheng a a humileng.

Le bone ba tsenwe ke letsapa Mr Speaker, ka gore ga ba ka ke ba re thusetsa ruri fela.

Re le maAfrica le rona re tshwanetse gore re iteke, re itirele dikhumo tse e tlaa nnang tsa lefatshe la rona.

Re ka di dira dikhumo tseo fela ka go tla ka melao e, e e tshwanang le molao o o o ka thusang gore re itirele dikhumo.
Ke bo ke supe jaana gore, o tlile sentle molao o ka gore o rotloetsa se re se solofeditseng Batswana fa re ya ditlhophong, re re re batla gore re ye go rotloetsa itsholelo e e akaretsang botlhe.

E se moono wa rona fela e le moono wa mafatshe wa “leaving no one behind.” So fa re ntse re bua ka bo leaving no one behind, re raya gone mo.

Kana the vicious circles of poverty di tsalwa ke gore go bo go sena bangwe ba e leng gore ba fitlhelela go bona madi, lack of financing.
Jaanong fa re ntse re rotloetsa jaana we are breaking the vicious circles of poverty.

Ke dingwe tse re tshwanetseng go di amogela fela thata, re bo re di lebogele.

E bile mafatshe ao a a humileng go na le an African proverb e e buang gore, kana jaaka re ntse re dira jaana, ba re thusa, ba lebile le proverb ya rona e e buang Mr Speaker, I want to quote the African proverb, gore go batla go thusetswa ruri fela gore go ka tsala eng.
Mr Speaker if you allow me, e kwadilwe ka Sekgoa ya re, “he who wants to help nine poor risks to become the tenth.” So fa o ntse o thusetsa batho ruri fela ba ba humanegileng, wena o felela o ya go nna mongwe wa bahumanegi bao.

So this is an African proverb, jaanong re leka gore a re thusaneng gore re se ka ra tlogela ope kwa morago, re tle re kgone gore lefatshe la rona le gatele kwa pele.

Tota ga ke mafoko mantsi go tlaa thusa batho ba rona kwa dikgaolong jaaka dibui di sa tswa go bua.
Fela ke utlwile botlhoko thata gore motho wa mme a bo e le gore o kgethololwa ka tsela e a kgethololwang ka yone, mme a sa dira molato ope fela.

Legale ba kwa Kgalagadi re tlaa ba buelela Mma Monnakgotla, gore le bone ba tlaa akola molao o fa o diriwa.

O tlaa ba thusa dikgomo tse di dintsi mo mafelong a rona, temo, bodiragatsi jo o ntseng o bua ka jone...(inaudible)… re bua ka intellectual property e re ntse re bua ka yone.

Kana ke nngwe ya dilo tse re di rotloetsang thata Mr Speaker.
MR MOTSAMAI: Point of order.

Mr Speaker, o tlaa mpaakanyetsa.

Kana Mothusa Tautona o tshwanetse a itse gore thatathata re beile mo go ene ka dinako tsotlhe.

La ntlha e le Mopalamente yo o nnileng mo Palamenteng lebaka le le leele, la bobedi e le Mothusa Tautona, laboraro e le mogolwane ka dingwaga mo Palamenteng.
Mr Speaker, Mothusa Tautona gongwe mafoko a a ntshang a re Mme Mma Monnakgotla o kgetholotswe gore a se ka a bua, ke mafoko a a strong, a a sa siamang, a a tladikang, a a ka lotlhanyang, mme e bile a ka diga le seriti sa Palamente.

A bo a thulanya bomme le ditsamaiso tsa Palamente, mafoko a ke a a seng monate Mr Speaker.

Tota fela a njela masole a mmele, gore a bogolo a bue ka tsela e sele a se ka a re Mma Monnakgotla o kgetholotswe, a rontshiwa, e bile o tlaa buelela kgaolo ya Kgalagadi.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Motsamai, you should have realised by now that His Honour o jewa ke kgang ya gore ga ke a mo letla gore a mpolelele gore ke tsamaise Palamente jang.

O jewa ke kgang eo, mme ke mmoleletse right at the beginning gore ke tswa Mapoka.

Ga ke ngwananyana.

MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, if I may proceed... MR SPEAKER: Tse ditshesane tse di ntlogelele.

MR MOTSAMAI: Tanki Mr Speaker.


MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, let me warn Mr Motsamai that I would not stoop so low to be castigating the Speakership and I will never do that.

MR SPEAKER: Your Honour you did that.

If you ...(inaudible)… than everybody else then stop it !

MR TSOGWANE: I am not doing Mr Speaker, I would not stoop so low, I would not Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Do not stoop that low!

26 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MR TSOGWANE: Thank you Mr Speaker... MR SPEAKER: ...(Inaudible)... ke tswa Mapoka... MR TSOGWANE: Yes I am also a relative of the Mapokas... MR SPEAKER: ...(Inaudible)... MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, let me conclude my debate.

We are both from the same ethnicity, so Mapoka or no Mapoka, we are both from Mapoka.

Let me not stoop so low.


Mr Speaker, let me conclude before bo mathandahelele jaaka ba tshikinya ditlhogo ba ithaya ba re go na le ntwa e ba tlaa tsenang mo go yone, mma ke wetse kgang ya me.

Ke ne ke re ke supe fela jalo gore go botlhokwa tota gore molao o re o fetise, e nne molao o o tlaa thusang Batswana botlhe.

Kana ke gore ba fufegela fela gore melao e e diragatsa dikgang tsa ga Domkrag, e diragatsa maitlamo a re itlamileng ka one gore re ya go direla Batswana jang.
Bo intellectual property, an inclusive economy, ke dilo tse ba kganetso tota ba ne ba ka se ke ba di akanya mo botshelong.

Jaanong fa go tla melao e e ntseng jaana ke gore ba iphitlhe ba leke ka ditsela tsotlhe borre Saleshando gore ba emise melao e e ntseng jaana.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, let me save nako ke tlogelele bakaulengwe.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Vice President.


Honourable Mmolotsi... (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): MR MMOLOTSI Ke a leboga thatathata Mr Speaker, good afternoon... (inaudible)… Nakong e e leng gore bontsi jwa Batswana ga ba na madi ba tšhonne, bontsi jwa Batswana ba latlhegetswe ke ditiro.

Tota fela re mo seemong se ke kareng ka bokhutshwanyane se bokete mo Batswaneng.

Jaanong Batswana ba le bantsi they do not save, ga ba na disposable income, tota fela seemo sa lehuma mo lefatsheng la rona se godile thata.
Ke sone Mr Speaker ke reng,e ne ya re mo nakong e e fetileng mo Palamenteng yone e ka tla ka Tshutiso e ke neng ke akanya gore gongwe Tona ka nako ya teng, ke ne ke akanya gore gongwe o ne a na le boammaaruri mo go nna ka gore o ne a supa gore nnyaa, ke selo se e leng gore ba ntse ba se akantse mme se tlaa goroga.
Ke nako e ke neng ke kopa gore Batswana ba letlelelwe gore ba dirise madi a bone a pension go ka intsha mo mathateng ka lebaka la gore ke ne ke tlhaloganya sentle lehuma le Batswana ba leng mo go lone le mathata a Batswana ba leng mo go one mme ba na le madi kwa pension funds mme e bile ke itse gore if Batswana can be allowed to encash madi a bone a pensions, go tlile go gaisa tsamaiso nngwe le nngwe e re ka batlang gore re tle ka yone mo nakong ya gompieno.
Tona gompieno o a lemoga gore Batswana ba mo mathateng ba tlhoka madi mme jaanong she is scratching fa go sa babeng thata.
Gompieno fa e le gore re tla ka molao o wa movable property gore e bo e ka dirisiwa e le security mo loans mme ga ke tlhaloganye gore Tona ke eng a tlola mo go ka bong go ne go tlile pele ka gore Batswana would have accumulated madi mo pensions, ba bo ba berekile ba na le madi a bone ba tshwanelwa ke go kgona go a dirisa for purposes of either investment or go dira sepe fela se e leng gore Tona gompieno o akanya gore se ka dirwa ka madi a e leng gore a tshwanelwa ke gore a tsewe ke loans.
Re a itse gore interest rates tsa dibanka tota di kwa godimo mme e bile re a itse gore fa re setse re tsena mo go yone thulaganyo e re reng jaanong re ye go dirisa movable properties as security or collateral, nnyaa, o foo ke fano because dilo tse tsa movable property are also very risky.
Go raya gore interest rates are likely to go up and therefore if interest rates are likely to go up, go raya gore fa e ne e le gore gongwe motho o ne a dirile tshimo ya gagwe mmidi jaaka re itse bo Rre Molale e le batho ba mmidi o montsi, a e dirisitse e le security, interests tse e leng gore gongwe di tlaa lopiwa (charged) di ka nna tsa felela di jele profit yotlhe e e leng gore Rre Molale o ne a ka e bona.
Ke sone se e leng gore nna Minister, tota fela e re ntswa molao ke o utlwa, ke tshwenyega thata gore re tlisa mo go ka se keng go thusa thata mme go ne go na le mo go ka thusang thata mo o neng o go solofeditse o le Tona gore o a go fetsa mme go tlaa tla mo Palamenteng.

Re setse re tlaa digela ngwaga jaanong o ntse o solofeditse jalo.

Ke ka bo ke sa dumele gore… Minister Serame le wena ba setse ba go rutile go tlhoka boammaaruri mo go kana mo e leng gore jaanong e bo e le gore o tla ka se sele.
Mr Speaker, se Honourable Serame a se dirang sa go tla ka Molao-kakanyetso o, ke sone sesupo le sekai sa gore Honourable Serame o a lemoga gore Batswana ba tlhoka madi a go beeletsa (invest) le go ka ipusa.

Batswana ba tlhoka go tsaya loans mme jaanong ke batla go gakolola Honourable Serame gore yone tsela e o tlang ka yone e is not the best.
The best ke gore a re boele kwa kgannyeng ele ya gore Batswana ba letlelelwe gore ba dirise madi a bone a ba a bereketseng ka dingwaga that they have accumulated kwa pension funds gore jaanong e bo e le gore fa go ntse ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, Motswana o a itse gore ‘nnyaa, ke dirisitse madi ame e bile jaanong ga ke na go kokonelwa ke interests.’ Kana golo fa fa gongwe re bua ka batho ba e 27 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) leng gore ba setse ba tlogetse tiro ka bogodi (retired), ba malatsi a bone a setseng a potile ka kwa and to expect gore batho ba ba duele exorbitant interest rates… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification comrade.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Molao a re a o ka baakanya.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go na le echo e e tswang kwa morago ga mafoko a ga Rre Mmolotsi.

MR MMOLOTSI: …tota Minister gone ke dumela gore o kare ga o e tshware sentle gotlhelele.

I yield.
I yield.

MR SPEAKER: Ke a itse Honourable Leuwe; there is a very bad echo.

MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re Rre Mmolotsi a tlhatswe kgang e thata e bile ka e a nkama kwa ofising ya me ka gore go nna go le mola moleele.

Batswana who have retired ba batla gore ba direlwe tshiamelo ya gore go ntshiwe madi mo mading a ba a bolokileng (invested) gore ba kgone gore ba tsene mo ditirong tse dingwe go intsha kwa morago.

A o raya gone jalo rraetsho gore between 60 and 65?
Motswana yo o tlogetseng tiro ka bogodi tota o ja eng?

A o raya gore Mma Serame a itebaganye le tsone dintlha tse a kgone gore a fefose, a bofe ditlhako a utlwele Batswana ba ba ntseng jalo botlhoko?

Ke a leboga.

MR MMOLOTSI: Tota kana kgang ya me e tona e gone foo e bile re a itse gore dibanka mo nakong ya gompieno, batho fa ba setse ba tlogetse tiro ka bogodi… (Inaudible)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Mmolotsi ga a utlwale; o utlwalela kwa tlase.
Ga re kgone go utlwa Honourable Mmolotsi sentle, Honourable Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ga ke utlwale?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O utlwalela kwa tlase Honourable Mmolotsi.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re a go utlwa jaanong.

MR MMOLOTSI: Ee.
MR MMOLOTSI: Ee.

Ke ne ke re kana se se tshwenyang mo nakong ya gompieno ke gore re a itse gore dibanka mo lefatsheng la Botswana fa motho a setse a tlogetse tiro ka bogodi, they are very sceptical and are not willing or in fact, ga ba kgone gore ba adime batho ba ba tlogetseng tiro ka bogodi ba dingwaga tse di rileng madi.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction Mr Speaker.


MR MMOLOTSI: Jaanong ga ke itse gore a Tona o dumela gore ka molao one o go tlaa fetola (change) dibanka gore di simolole go neela batho ba e leng gore ba tlogetse tiro ka bogodi dikoloto kana loans mme se ke se itseng ke gore I had an Administration Officer… MR LEUWE: Yes, Sir.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi, Honourable Molao a re a o ka go baakanyetsa?

MR MMOLOTSI: Ee, tla a baakanye.


MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR MOLAO): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke a leboga Honourable Member.
Nnyaa, ke ne ke batla go baakanya fa fela Mr Speaker gore e re ntswa Rre Mmolotsi a bua boammaaruri gore o ne a tlile ka Tshutiso ya maloba e e gannweng mme fela for the record, State of the Nation Address (SONA) ya 2018 kwa paragraph 23 e ne ya bua jaana fa ke ka e nopola fela ka bokhutshwane ke sa mo diele nako, “A major hurdle to flow of credit is that currently financial institutions only take immovable property as collateral for credit.
However, through the concept of collateral registry, households and businesses can register their movable assets as a collateral to credit from lenders.” E bo e tswelela e bua gore, “the target is to have the Bill submitted to Parliament in the 2019 July sitting”, yone ya collateral registry.

E diegile go tla mme fela it is something that has long been in the plan.

Ga se gore Mme Mma Serame o tabogile gompieno a tla a ratela kana a tsamaya kwa pele ga Tshutiso e o neng o tlile ka yone.
This was long promised, e diegile fela go tla.

Ke ne ke re ke baakanye gone foo gore it is on record gore go ntse jalo.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Nnyaa, ke raya gore mafoko a ga Honourable Molao ga a re thuse Mr Speaker because jaaka ke tlhalosa, Honourable Serame, Molao- kakanyetso o a tlang ka one gompieno ga o ka ke wa go thusa batho ba le bantsi.
Fa re lebelela kana re o bapisa le mogopolo o ke neng ka tla ka one mo Palamenteng, mogopolo o o ne o ya go thusa batho ba le bantsintsi gore ba tswe mo mathateng mme e bile ke dumela gore Honourable Molao, o se ka o a dumela gore Honourable Serame ga se motho yo o kgonang go lemoga priorities.

I do not think gore priority mo nakong ya gompieno ke molao o a tlileng ka one.
I think Honourable Serame o a lemoga gore mo go ka thusang go gaisa ke eng jaaka le nna ke ne ke lemoga gore mo go ka thusang go gaisa 28 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) ke molao o o ka letlelelang gore Batswana ba dirise pensions tsa bone ba intshe mo mathateng.
Fa o bua o kopa go tsena ke ne ke santse ke bua kgang ya gore ke ne ke na le Admin Officer yo o neng a setse a tshwere dingwaga tsa retirement.

He could not get a loan from the banks.

Ba re ‘no, we cannot give you a loan because dingwaga tsa gago di setse di le kwa godimo.’ So, go raya gore o ne a amogela madi a gagwe fela a dira ditiro ka madi a sa kgone go tsaya loan because of ditsamaiso tsa dibanka tsa gore he is a risky customer.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, ga ke tlhaloganye gore a Honourable Serame o re raya a re jaanong ka molao o dibanka di ya go patikesega jaanong gore go sa kgathalesega gore dingwaga tsa gago di kae, ba bo ba ka kgona go ka go adima madi?

Fa a ka nthaya jalo ke ka dumalana le ene gore nnyaa, a re o fetise mme ke sa dumalane le ene gore ke Molao-kakanyetso o o neng o tshwanetse gore o tle pele ga o a o solofeditseng o re neng re bua ka ga one wa pensions.
Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore fa re ne re simolotse ka wa pensions re bo re tsena mo go o e ka bo mo molaong one o o leng fa pele ga rona o ke re nnyaa, Honourable Serame re ntse re a leka gore jaanong re phutholole thulaganyo e ya gore Batswana ba ka batla madi ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

I am only worried by priorities tsa gago ka fa di ntseng ka teng ka gore ga ke dumele gore one o o ya go thusa Batswana ba le ba ntsi ba e leng gore ba tlhoka thuso.
Tota fela jaaka re bua, tota Batswana ba mo seemong se se tlhobaetsang sa letšhono le le seng kanaka sepe, ba tlhoka go thusiwa ka madi, mme jaanong ga ke dumele gore yone e e a go re thusa thata.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, ga ke ka ke ka gana Tshutiso e ya ga Honourable Serame gore e fete, ke tlaa letlelela Honourable Serame gore re fetise Tshutiso e mme ke mmaya lefoko pele la gore your priorities are not right, mme e bile ke mo kopa gore dira gore mo Palamenteng yone e fa go tlhokafala gore molao- kakanyetso o wa gore go okediwe pension e tlaa nna Certificate of Urgency, a re dire jalo ka gore mo go urgent ke one molao one oo, ke go thusega ga Batswana.
Mo go urgent ga se mo go neng go tla ka Honourable Mmusi maabane ga gore ba batla to tap phones tsa Batswana, ba batla gore Batswana ba nne ba reeditswe fela.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A ko o nne o araba dikgang tse di tlhamaletseng o lese go bua dilo di sele.

MR MMOLOTSI: That one is not important compared to what they are talking about because all I am saying is that Batswana ba tlhoka thuso ya madi.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR MMOLOTSI: Jaanong gatwe go a bo go diragala eng?
MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… MR MMOLOTSI: Batswana ba na le kgwetlho, ba tlhoka go thusiwa.

Seemo sa Motswana mo nakong ya gompieno ke mathata.

Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re let us prioritise go tlisa molao o e leng gore o tlaa letlelela Batswana gore ba ...(inaudible)… pensions tsa bone.
Mo nakong ya gompieno ka ke gakolotse Honourable Serame, ke tlaa letla gore molao o o tle o kgone gore o fete ka gore go feta ga one, le gone go tlaa thusa bangwenyana ka palonyana e e seng kanaka sepe, le ba dingwaga tse e leng gore gongwe e bile ga di tlhoke thuso mo go kalokalo.

Ba ba bereketseng lefatshe le ka lebaka le le leele, they are not yet assisted from this particular programme.

Having said that Mr Speaker, ke a go leboga, e bile batho ba toropo ba re ba go tlhoafaletse.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister of Finance and Economic Development Honourable Serame, reply to the debate.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (MS SERAME): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
Tlaa ke dumedise gape batlotlegi, go na le temana e nngwe e a tle e re “Bagalatia ke lona…” Mr Speaker, nte ke simolole ka go leboga batlotlegi botlhe ba ba akgetseng, le botlhe ka gore ba ntse ba supa kemonokeng ya molao o. Honourable Mmolotsi ke dumela gore nna le wena re ka dumalana gore ga re dumalane gore priorities di tsamaya jang.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O buisa Vice President (VP) jang, o mmitsa Bagalatia?

MS SERAME: A ko o didimale wena Motlotlegi Kekgonegile.

…(laughter!
…(laughter!

)… Ke a itse gore o santse o utlwile botlhoko gore molao ole ga o ise o tle, ke molao o o botlhokwa, ke dumalana le wena, mme ke tlaa tla ke go araba kwa bofelong, ke raya gore o se ka wa leka go nkemisa.

29 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Mr Speaker, tlaa ke simolole ka ya consultation.
Ke boammaaruri gore molao o o tshwanang le o o tshwanetse gore re o buisane le batsaakarolo le Batswana ka kakaretso.
Jaaka ke ne ke supile gore o ne o simolotse go dirwa ditshekatsheko tse di neng di re thusa gore re felele re na le molao, mme go tswa foo gape Mr Speaker, Lephata le la Madi le ne la buisana le batsaakarolo ba ba farologaneng, including the commercial banks, ka gore dibanka di botlhokwa gore e re re tla ka molao o o ntseng jaana, jaaka batlotlegi ba ntse ba bua, di kgone gore di tsamae le rona di re tlhaloganye, e re batho ba tla, mme le bone ba kgone go ba thusa.
Ke ne ke tlhalosa mo statement maabane fa ke present molao Mr Speaker gore dibanka di ntse di le maoto a tshupa go batla go thusa ba ba tlang ka immovable property ka gore go ne go sena molao o ba ka itshegetsang ka one.

Ke sone se rona re dumelang gore jaanong ka gore go tlaabo go na le molao, ee go tlaabo go ba tlama le bone.

Kana ga se gore ga ba itse gore business eo e teng, le bone kana mo go bone ke business.
Sa bobedi ke tlhalose gore, including le ba informal sector ba e leng gore Honourable Mmolotsi le fa wena o dumela gore molao o ga o na mosola kana ga o priority, batho ba ba yang go thusiwa ke molao o ba feta kgakala ba ba yang go thusiwa ke o o o rayang.
Ga ke a re ga o botlhokwa wa pensions, o botlhokwa thata, mme o fa o ka nna fela fa fatshe nna le wena ra ya go dira dipalo, o ya go fitlhela e le gore batho ba e leng gore ba mo teng ga molao, o molao o o ka ba thusa, ba ba ntsi thata, ke Batswana ba le ba ntsi including le dikgwebo tse di potlana.
Bangwe ba go neng ga buiwa le bone ke ba ba dirang ditena ka fa Gaborone Dam ka fale, ba re neng re ba bontsha gore kana mme re eletsa go dira molao o o ntseng jaana, lona lwa reng, le bone ra tsaya maikutlo mo go bone, bo Business Botswana.

Re ne ra ya kwa metseng e e farologaneng including bo Maun, Tsabong, Kang le e mengwe jalo Mr Speaker.

Gone ga re a ka ra kgona go ya kwa metseng yotlhe, mme that is why Dikgosi … HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR TSOGWANE): Clarification Mr Minister.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Ke ne ke re o santse o le foo, o tlhalosa yone e Motlotlegi Rre Mmolotsi a tsayang gore molao o o kwa tlase ga ole wa pensions, o ka thusa batho ba se kae, o tlhalose gore a mme bone ba pensions ba a ba raying, molao o ba a ntshiwa mo go one, ga o ka ke wa ba thusa, a o tlaabo o ba ntshetsa kwa ntle, kana le bone o tlaa ba akaretsa?

Tanki Mr Speaker.

MS SERAME: Thank you very much your Honour Sir.


Ke boammaaruri tota, molao o le bone bao ba pensions o ka ba akaretsa, kana tota o tlaabo o sa tlhaole ope.

Jalo Honourable Mmolotsi, molao o ba pensions ba o ba rayang o tlaa ba thusa, le ba bangwe; a ke informal sector, small Medium Enterprises (SMEs), a ke Motswana yo o tshwanang le nna le wena, o ya go re thusa rotlhe re le Batswana.

Se sengwe se ke batlang go se tlhalosa, ke ne ke re le ba Ntlo ya Dikgosi were consulted.
Se sengwe se ke eletsang go se gatelela fa Mr Speaker ke gore, e rile fa ke ne ke fudugela ka fa ofising ka kwano mo Finance, ke ne ka kopana le commercial banks, dingwe tsa dikgang tse ke neng ke di bua le bone ke gore, ke eletsa go bona seabe sa bone mo go thuseng Batswana gore ba tsene mo itsholelong se oketsega.

Re ne ra tsaya dikgang tse di tshwanang le gone gore go na le dilo tse re sa ntseng re tsaya gore they could do much better, and they can do more.
Sengwe sa teng e le ya gore gompieno jaana ba santse ba leba dilo tse dingwe e le risk whereas kwa mafatsheng a mangwe batho ba thusiwa fela mme dilo tseo di ntse di le teng.

Dikgang tse re neng re di buisana e ne e le gore, mme re tlaa sekaseka le melao ka gore le bone kana ba lebelela risk, ba batla go dira profits.

Re tlaa lebelela le melao gore a tse dingwe go ka tswa go na le melao e e leng gore ke yone e ba itsang gore ba felele ba le koo.
Ke dumela gore even fa molao o o sena go nna o feta, jaaka Batlotlegi ba ne ba bua ba le ba ntsi, go botlhokwa gore re tswelele re ntse re buisana le batsaakarolo botlhe.

Le nna ke tlaabo ke le mo teng go buisana le bone botlhe go ya kwa pele molao o sena go nna o feta gore molao kana ke o jaanong o teng, mme a re bone gore molao o berekela Batswana.
Se sengwe ke public education, go ya go nna botlhokwa thata Mr Speaker, mme e bile ke a dumela gore jaaka re tlaabo re le ministry le Botswana Stock Exchange (BSE) a tlaabo a le mo teng go re thusa ka yone to manage for us the registry rotlhe … HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MS SERAME: Ga ke itse gore a mongwe o a bua Mr Speaker?

Rotlhe re bo re tsamaya re nna mo lenaneong … MR BALOPI: Ke ne ke kopa clarification Honourable Serame.
30 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.

49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) MS SERAME: I yield Mr Speaker.

MR BALOPI: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Honourable Minister Serame, ke ne ke batla go tlhaloganya sengwe fa ka gore, sa ntlha ke itumelele gore wa re you engaged the commercial banks gore ba leke gore ba ikiteye ka thupana go itse gore ba ka thusa le bone mo go lekeng go tsholetsa itsholelo go thusa Batswana.
Jaanong fa o lebeletse immovable assets, yone property e re buang ka yone e, gongwe tlaa ke tseye sekai re bua ka dikgomo kana dipodi in relation to a house.
Ka gore ke dumela gore gatwe podi e tsala gabedi ka ngwaga, kgomo yone e tsala ngwaga le ngwaga, if you look at the rate of return in terms of being able to invest mo this property, your view o le Tona wa tsa Madi, ga o bone this immovable asset in relation mainly to tsone dipodi le dikgomo jalojalo, gore it is better collateral compared to a house e e leng gore the return is very slow comparing to the movable assets that you are talking about?

Thank you.
Thank you.

MS SERAME: Honourable Balopi, o bua mafoko a mantle thata a e leng gore tota le sefofu se ka bona, yo o sa utlweng o ka felela a utlule gore o molao o tshwanetse gore o ye go re thusa rotlhe.

Fela jaaka o bua, go ka re tswela mosola tota o o feteletseng gore re kgone go dirisa dipodi le dikgomo tse di ka tsalang gantsintsi.
Ke dumela gore mafoko ao otlhe re a a utlwa, le Batswana botlhe ba itse gore molao o re o dirang gompieno o ka go thusa o le molemi-morui gore dikgomo tsa gago o kgone go di dirisa gore o ye go adima madi, go sa twe ga o na ntlo kana ga o na tse dingwe tse di thata.

Ka jalo he, ke boammaaruri tota o opile kgomo lenaka Honourable Balopi gore molao o tota o ka re thusa thata.

Ke sone se e rileng ke simolola ka re motho mongwe o a tle a re Bagalatia ke lona.
Fa ke tswelela kwa pele, ke ne ke bua ka regulations le public education gore go tlaa nna botlhokwa thata.

Ke a dumalana batlotlegi gore bontsi jwa nako mo gongwe dilo tse e bile ke e amanye le potso e e neng e botsa gore re ntse re le kae ka molao o. Tota le ka lemoga gore kana re santse re batla go nna a high income country.

Go raya gore dilo dingwe re santse re saletse kwa morago.
Fa itsholelo e ntse e tlhabologa e fetoga, dilo dingwe o tlaa fitlhela e le gore le rona re berekela mo goreng re tshware ba bangwe ba ba setseng ba le kwa pele ga rona.

Ke sone se o bonang gore melao e mengwe ke gone re e dirang, e e leng gore batho ga ba a bolo go e dira mo dingwageng tse di fetileng.

Se ke se lebogelang ke gore Ntlo e ya Palamente e buisanya molao o mme e bile ke dumela gore re tlaa o fetisa.
Decentralisation of services; ke dumalana le lona gore a go se ka ga nna mo Gaborone fela, a re ye go tla ka metlhale yotlhe ya go bona gore ga re felele jaanong e nna o kare molao tota re ne re o direla fela ba bo Gaborone, Francistown kana Maun.

E nne molao o o tlaa kgonang go akolwa ke Batswana ba le bantsi.

Metlhale e mentsi Mr Speaker, ya gore e re gompieno ke batla re simolole go akanya gore e se ka ya ne fa re akanya go thusa Motswana, re bo re akanya brick and mortar.
Go na le bo virtual, re kgone go itse gore mo gongwe re ka kgona go thusa Batswana go sa reye gore Motswana mongwe le mongwe mo ntlong ya gagwe a bo a na le Wi-Fi.

Go na le mobile offices tse re ka di dirang.

There are a number of ways tse re ka bonang gore re dira jang gore tse re di dirang di goroge kwa Batswaneng.

Ke dumela gore ka gore ba ke dirang le bone Mr Speaker, botlhe ba reeditse re tsaya notes.
Jaaka re ya go baakanya regulations, all these points tse ke dumelang gore di botlhokwa thata batho ba ntse ba di bua, re tlaa tshwanelwa ke gore re di tseye tsotlhe fela re di tsenye mo teng.

Ke batla go ya kwa go ya ga Honourable Mmolotsi.

Honourable Mmolotsi, ka gore ke na le ngwaga ke dumela kgaitsadiaka, ke a go itshwarela, ke a itse gore o tswa Keresemoseng, o ntse o ntlhwaafaletse.

Molao wa pensions, ke ne ka tlhalosa gore keletso ya me ke gore o tle mo ngwageng ono, mme ke dumela gore o tlaa tla.
Fa ke bua le lona jaana, ke dumela gore ba a feleletsa ba e leng gore they are drafting; ba Attorney General.

Ke sengwe se re ntseng re tsamaya re se buisana thata.

Ke ne ka tlhalosa mo nakong e e fetileng gore molao oo, mme kana gompieno ga ke a tsaya dipalo tsa me ka ke ne ke tshaba go emelela ke ya go batla dipampiri, gore dilo tse dingwe tse Honourable Mmolotsi a neng a di bua di ya go benefit batho ba le kae, dipalo tseo ke na le tsone.
Sengwe se ke neng ka se tlhalosa last year ke gore se re batlang go se lebelela ke go bona gore motho e re a tsaya madi a pension, a kgone go a dirisa go ya go adima madi kwa bankeng, mo e leng gore molao wa gompieno ga o se letlelele.

Jaanong re ne re raya ba dibanka re re ga re tlhaloganye gore ke eng le sa kgone go bona gore motho yo tota mme ene o na le income.

Ke dingwe tsa ditsetlana tse ke di lebeletseng.


Ke ne ka ba ka bua gape le ditsetlana tse dingwe tse o tlaa fitlhelang motho a sa kgone go ya bongakeng a feletswe ke madi, mme a na le a a tsenang a kgwedi kgwedi, e le gore re lotletse sengwe le sengwe motho ga a kgone go dirisa dilo tseo.

Ke dintlha dingwe tse ke neng ka supa gore re di lebeletse.

31 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) Honourable Mmolotsi, ke tlaa boa ke tlhola gape gore re bokgakala jo bokae.

Ke go utlwile le wena wa mo utlwa Mr Speaker, a re yone ga e ka tla ka Certificate of Urgency, ga a na gore ga re a rerisa Batswana mme ke tlaa leka bojotlhe jwa me gore e tle sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke kopa clarification Honourable Speaker.

MS SERAME: Ga ke wele pele mo go yone, ke a le utlwa.
Ke a itse le batla go nkomanya, ga ke reye gore ke ya go tlisa molao under Certificate of Urgency go sa tlhokafale, ke ne ke re mme Speaker o utlwile Honourable Mmolotsi gore a re fa e ne e le go ya ka ene, I will not do that go sa tlhokafale, I will do the right thing.
Jaanong se ke neng ke se tlhalosa fela ke gore ke tlaa follow-up with the drafters le team ya me ka kwano gore how far are we ka gore tota keletso ya me ke gore before Palamente ya mariga fa nne go kgonega, re bo re setse re phatlaladitse molao o. Tla ke tseye clarification Mr Speaker.

DR TSHABANG: Clarification.

Honourable Minister, fa debate e ntse e tsamaya, go ne go na le confusion ya definition ya movable assets, mo e leng gore some people ba ne ba setse ba tsenya sengwe le sengwe, bo mmidi.
Ke gore some perishables le other items that do not normally fall under movable assets.

So gongwe o tle o provide guidelines.

Just provide a guide gore kana ga se gore re ya go tsaya sengwe le sengwe re gobeya re latlhela mo teng.

Gape re Mapalamente re ya go tlhalosetsa Batswana molao o gore re tle re ba tlhalosetse fela gore nnyaa, movable assets go tewa this, not that.

Thank you very much.

MR TSHERE: Clarification.

Thank you very much Honourable Speaker, and thank you very much Mma Serame.
Go kile ga runya kgang ya pawn shops gone fa Mma Serame.

I think gongwe o ko o e tlhatswe gore molao o o ya go thusa jang ba pawn shops, kana ke lenaneo le le ntseng le bua ka lone la Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) manifesto gore thulaganyo e ne e le go tswala pawn shops?

Ke a leboga.

MS SERAME: Batlotlegi, kana fa o ka tsaya Bill kwa Part I, preliminaries e na le definitions, e ya go tlhalosetsa gore movable property ke eng.
Maabane e rile fa ke baya Palamente pego ya me pele, ke ne ka fa dikai gore movable asset e include intellectual property.

Ke sone se e rileng Mma Monnakgotla a bua, mongwe a bo a ithaya a re o ikgatlha ka ene a re o bua ka dikhwaere.

Mma Monnakgotla o ne a bua gore fa o na le intellectual property ya pina, o dirile pina e le tlhamo ya gago, o ka e dirisa as collateral, ke movable property.
Ke ne ka fa sekai se sengwe sa dikoloi, sa machine, ka ba ka re kana fa o le mo business o na le machines, mo gongwe go tlhoka gore o ye go adima madi, ke dilo tse e leng gore… Ka bua ka bo stock receivable and crops, yes ke boammaaruri.

Dijalo tsa gago, e bile o kgona gore e re fela o lemile tshimo o bo o re ke lemile this particular crop, ke gone ke e lemang gompieno e tsamaya fa, e tlaabo e le mo seemong se se siameng in three months.
Motho a bo a re nnyaa mme ke a dumalana le ke a bona gore o lemile, in three months o tlaabo o ka rekisa se o se lemileng se wa bona madi, ka jalo he, o mo seemong se se siameng sa gore ke ka go adima madi.

O a utlwa Saleshando, Leader of the Opposition?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Gakere we will be asking you questions, gore how many Batswana were given loans on account to their crops.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MS SERAME: A ko le didimale tlhe.
Se sengwe se ke neng ke se tlhalosa Mr Speaker, ba ne ba bua ka pawn shops.

Ga re ise re re re ya go tswala pawn shops.

Kana le itse gore pawn shops, molao o o ya go thusa those who pawn le bone ba ba tsayang dilo tseo ka gore ba ntse ba pawn mme go sena molao o o ba thusang thata.

Ke sone se nne nako e nngwe o tlaa fitlhela mo gongwe o kare batho are exploited ka gore go ne go nna thata gore o dirisa molao ofe wa go sireletsa batho bao.
Dilo tse di yang kwa pawn shops fa le gakologelwa, bangwe ba isa dikoloi, furniture le eng, they are movable property.

Jaanong Mr Speaker, tla ke fete, ke tsaya gore ya ga Honourable Mmolotsi ke e arabile, gore tota ke a go utlwa kgaitsadiaka mme ke tlaa leka bojotlhe jwa me go kopa gore re fefogele go fetsa molao o wa pensions gore re baakanye go kgona gore re thuse Batswana botlhe, including ba ba neng ba diretse lefatshe le ka botswapelo.
Go na le kgang e nngwe Mr Speaker, e e neng ya tsoga ya gore jaanong molao o ke FATF recommendation number mang.

Tla ke simolole ka go leboga Honourable MoleMole.

Honourable Molebatsi ke ne ke itheile ka re le mo utlwile, ga gona yo o tlaa botsang morago ga gagwe.

O ne a e tlhalosa ka botswerere gore kana gompieno jaana re bua ka movable property.

Fa re bua ka 32 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022MOVABLE PROPERTY (SECURITY INTERESTS) BILL, 2021 (NO.
49 OF 2021)Second Reading (Resumed Debate) movable property, kwa mafatsheng a a tlhabologileng, a na le bo future’s market le commodities exchange.

Fa o bua ka dilo tseo, now you are talking about the financial fact.

Fa o bua ka financial fact, ga o ka ke wa ya go farologanya dilo tseo tsotlhe jaanong le melao e e tsamaelanang le the financial factor sector stability.
Ke sone se e leng gore molao o wa movable property o tsamaelana le wa companies jaaka Honourable Molebatsi a e buile ka botswerere le ka botswapelo.

Ka jalo he Mr Speaker, ke sa oshaoshe ke papametse fela ke re ga gona recommendation of the ...(Inaudible)… e e leng specific e re re batla movable property law.

However, ka ponelopele ya rona e rile fa re lebelela, re ne ra bona gore ga o ka ke wa fetisa molao o wa Movable Property.
O e leng gore mo go one, o na le security interest, e bile o dira le dikgang tsa stability of the financial sector fa o setse o tla ka maturity of this system le sengwe se se tsamaelanang le sone.

Ga o ka ke wa ya go tla ka molao o, o sa o tshwaraganya le companies.

Ga o ka ke wa tla ka molao o, o sa o tshwaraganye le risks tse di leng teng tse di ka tlisiwang fa o setse o tsena mo future market le tse dingwe.

Molao o specifically ga o ye ka recommendation.


However, re o tlisa jaana ka gore re o tshwaraganya le wa companies.

Ke sone se re se tlisitseng fa Mr Speaker.

Re ne re bona gore go kaone gore di tsamaye di patagane gore re se ka ra fitlhela re le kwa pele.

South Africa a bo a re, le fetisitse, mme sengwe le se tlogetse le tsentse molao o mongwe o mosha.

Mme one ga le a ka la o pataganya le dikgang le recommendation tse dingwe tse re neng re le di beile pele.
Ke sone se Mr Speaker, re le fa re leng teng.

Ke leboge batlotlegi thata.

Tota le buile ka botswerere le ka botswapelo.

Ke le lebogele gore le rile le kopa gore e re go tswa fa, re tshwaragane re rute Batswana ka botswapelo ka molao o, le gore o ya go ba thusa jang.

Re sekaseke tsotlhe, re dire tsotlhe, a ke regulations, a ke eng, mme re bone gore Batswana ga ba jewe ntsoma.
Ke a le tlhomamisetsa gore le ba dibanka le ba bangwe, nna ka sebele, ke tlaa tswelela ke buisana le bone go bona gore tsotlhe tse re ka di dirang ke eng go bona gore tota kwa bofelong, re thusa Batswana gore ba nne included in the economy ya lefatshe la bone.

Ka mafoko a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke kopa gore ke leboge batlotlegi botlhe, ke bo ke re, ke letsatsi le le siameng thata.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Movable Property (Security Interest) Bill, 2021(No.

49 of 2021) be read a second time.


I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee – Later Date.

BILL TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mma ke go leboge rraetsho.

Mr Speaker, the objective of this Bill is to re-enact with amendments the Trust Property Control Act in order to align it with the Financial Intelligence Act and regulate the control of trusts in Botswana.
While most trusts are set for legitimate and noble causes, research by international financial organisations such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) indicates trusts can and are being used intentionally or unintentionally as vehicles for money laundering, terrorists financing activities and proliferation financing.

The Trust Property Control Act was first enacted in 2018 and it established the legal framework for the regulation and control of trusts in Botswana.
Prior to this Mr Speaker, there have been minimal vetting and control of trusts in the country.

Continuing as a country without laws to regulate and control trust property, would provide a possible money laundering vulnerability on which illegal activities can be disguised through the legal vehicle of trust.
The Trust Property Control Act is therefore one of the laws Botswana had to urgently put in place to strengthen financial systems and to satisfy compliant requirements of the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESMLAAG).

The Act was first amended in 2019 to clarify beneficial ownership requirement for trusts and to introduce requirements on keeping accurate and up to date information on the affairs of the trusts.
Beneficial ownership through trusts and related legal arrangements must be available to competent authorities without legal impediments.

This is achieved through defining what is considered to be a beneficial owner in the Act.

In this area, Botswana was found wanting as information was found to be inaccurate, outdated and not easily accessible.

33 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading Mr Speaker, the 2021 Bill seeks to: (a) Introduce regulation of trust service providers and provide for the registration of trust service providers.

(b) Make provision for regulation of foreign trustees.

(c) Facilitate a continued loading and registration of trust instruments by empowering the Master to receive trust instruments executed before the 29th June, 2018.
Failure to comply will result in such instruments being deemed to be null and void in Clause 28 and make provisions for the Minister to establish the void trust fund in Clause 29.

Mr Speaker, the Bill consists of 33 Clauses which are all in the Bill.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, without taking much time, I will just read Clause 28 or give an explanation ya Clause 28.

Clause 28 affect the validity of trust instruments executed before 2018/2019.
This places an obligation on trustees of such trust instrument to have launched a trust instrument to the Master within six months of commencement of the Act.

Failing which the concerned trust instrument will be deemed null and void.

A master is also empowered to take possession and control of trust property deemed to be null and void.

Invested property on the concerned trust will stay to be administered in accordance with the terms of the fund establishment under the Act.
Clause 29 and 30 establishes the void trust fund of which money from property seized under the Act shall be paid into and provides for offences and penalties.

Clause 31, 32 and 33 empowers the Minister to make regulations, repeal the Trust Property Control Act of 2019 as amended in 2019 and assent the valid of trust instrument registered under the Repeal Trust Property Control Act of 2018 as amended.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Trust Property Control Bill, (No.

37 of 2021) be read a second time.


I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: I have not received hitherto any lists, so, I give the floor to Honourable Tshere.

MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you very much Honourable Speaker.

Ke akgele mo Molao- kakanyetsong o wa Trust Property Control Act.

Ke o ema nokeng Mr Speaker.

Dilo tsa trusts re di bone thata mo maDomkrag mo nakong e e fetileng.
Ke gakologelwa nako e ba neng ba recruit bo comrade kwa opposition, mongwe le mongwe wa bone o ne a ya go nna le Trust Account.

Gone go bulwa Trust Accounts, jaanong re botsa gore Trust Account ke eng, re tlhalosediwa gore go raya gore ke kwa o ka bolokang madi teng, gore the regulators ba se ka ba tla kwa go wena.
Madi a teng fa a tsene mo Trust Account, ga go tshwane le mo account ya me ka gore ya me fela ya current, fa madi a tsena moo, ba tlaa botsa gore a tswa kae, o tlhalose gore a tswa kae e bile ke a tuelo ya mofuta mang.

Go lebega e le gore kwa Trust Account nnyaa, go itirelelwa fela, o kgona go tsenya madi moo, o ntshe madi moo go sena ope yo o botsang.

Ke dilo tse di neng re di utlwa ka bone maDomkrag fa re ba botsa gore ke eng mongwe le mongwe wa lona a eme ka Trust Account.
Ga ke ka ke ka gakgamala Tona Mmusi a na le Trust Account le ene gone jaana.

Mongwe le mongwe wa bone o na le tsone.

E rile fa ke tlhotlhomisa go ya kwa pele gore ke tle ke utlwe le Tona fa gore a tlhofofatse dilo tse ka gore ene e re fa ke botsa, ke bo ke utlwa e ka re go a tura thata go dira Trust Account.

Le dilo tse di tlhokafalang, o tlhoka lawyer, ga o ka ke wa dira Trust Account o sena lawyer, o tlhoka madi a mantsintsi a bo P10 000.
Ke gone mo ke neng ke bona gore that is why Trust Account ya teng jaanong e le mo go ba Domkrag fela.

Ke sone se ke neng ka lemoga jalo.

Ke itumela thata fa o tla ka molao o Tona gore o tle o regulate dilo tse gore di se ka tsa tswelela jalo.

Ra iphitlhela e le gore madi a setšhaba a kgona go fetisiwa ka dikgang tsa Trust Accounts.

Madi a ditsouludi a kgona go fetisiwa ka Trust Accounts.

Madi a money laundering le one a kgona go fetisiwa, a bo a tlhatswiwa ka Trust Account gone mo Botswana mo.
Molao-kakanyetso o o buang ke a o atla, ke o nesetsa pula.

Ke ne ke batla gape o tlhalosetse le Batswana sentle ka gore rona trust e re e itseng … MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR RAKGARE): On a point of clarification.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker, thank you very much Honourable Tshere.
Ka ke foo o a re penta, mme e bile o a itse gore go re penta moo ga gago, o leka go ithatisa Batswana fela ka maina a rona, a ga o ise o ke o utlwalele ope yo e leng lawyer e bile ke lepolotiki o mo diphathing tsa kganetso, ba bangwe o ne a ba tsietsa a dirisa Trust Account eo buang ka yone?

E bile ke moeteledipele wa nngwe ya diphathi tsone tsa lona.

Ga o ise o utlwalele kgang eo?

34 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading MR TSHERE: Ke a leboga.

Ke utlwile, ke kile ka tlhotlhomisa thata ka trusts ka gore jaaka ke ne ke bua, ke ne ke bona le di dira di le dintsi ka nako ya teng.

Jaanong e le gore o kare madi a Puso a a utswiwa, a isiwa gone koo go rekiwa bo comrade.

Kana ke se re neng se re akanya re se na bosupi.

Ya lawyers, ke tlhalogantse gape fa ke ntse ke botsisisa nako ya teng gore nnyaa, mme lawyers di na le Trust Account koo.
Tona ke yo o tlaa tlhalosa le ene gore Trust Account madi fa a ntse a run kana go duelanwa, courts di re yo a duelwe, a kgona gore a bewe mo Trust Account eo.

Ke a tlhaloganya gore lawyers di ka nna le Trust Account, mme e bile ba di tshwara sentle, e seng ba re utlwang gore Trust Accounts tsa madi a batho ga di tshware sentle.

Ke sa supe ope ka monwana.


Ke boela mo go reng Tona a ko o re tlhalosetse thata gone fa o tsenetse kwa teng, ka gore rona Batswana, trust e re e itseng ke ya Mahalapye Development Trust.

A molao o o amana le Mahalapye Development Trust, o tlaa re thusa go kgona go phutha dithoto tsa trust, re audit dithoto tsa trust, re bone gore dithoto tsa trust di dirisiwa jang mo motseng?
A molao o o ya go rurifatsa gore Mahalapye Development Trust, dithoto tsa teng di tlaabo di tshwaregile sentle e bile go tsamaya sentle ka tsela e e ntseng jalo?

Ke batla yone e fela specifically o e ntlhatswetse, o bo o boa o re bolelela gore molao wa Trust Property Control Act o amana jang le Mahalapye Development Trust.
Se sengwe e le sa bofelo, tota ga ke batle go tsaya nako mo go yone, ke batla go kopa wena Tona ka gore ke wena wa defence and justice, o itse dikgang tse tsa fines, penalties and the likes.

Honourable Kekgonegile o buile ntlha e nngwe e e neng e ntshwenya le nna earlier on.

A bua gore kana mo melaong ya rona mo Botswana, o kgona gore o utlwe gotwe motho is fined, fa o sa dire jaana, you are fined P10 000 fa e seng jalo five years imprisonment.
Fa re fetisa o mongwe molao o o latelang, o tlaabo o re you are fined P50 000 (10 years imprisonment), fa re tlisa o o latelang P 1 million (10 years imprisonment).

Tota ke a ipotsa, ke ratile thata Honourable Kekgonegile a umaka kgang e gore ke bofe boranyane kana botsipa jo bo re bo dirisang go kgona go tlhakanya, re batle gore re ka atlhola motho nako e e kae kana madi bokae?
Madi a rona a lekana jang le kgolegelo, a lebaganngwa jang le kgolegelo ka gore jaaka a ne a bua kgantele mo go tse dingwe, o tlaa utlwa gotwe P1 million, fa o lebelela sentence ya kgolegelo 10 years.

Ba bangwe P10 000 kana P100 000.

Wena ka o Tona wa dikgolegelo, a ko o re bolelele gore ngwaga fela kwa kgolegelong ke bokae ka madi.
Fa e le gore ke a atlholwa gotwe nnyaa, mme o atlholelwa bokana kana o ya kgolegelong lebaka le le kana, go a bo go lebeletswe jang gore kgolegelo e ke yang kwa go yone ka madi ke bokae.

Ke batla formula eo, re kgone go e tlhalosediwa.

E re fa molao e e ntse e tla jaanong, re bo re kgone go bona gore a mme pattern e is followed gore fa motho gotwe o atlhotswe P50 000, P50 000 go tewa ngwaga mo kgolegelong.
Ga e re jaanong kamoso re bona motho a lefisitswe P200 000 a bo a atlholwa four years, re bo re gakgamala.

Re bo re itse gore ke thulaganyo ya teng, every P50 000 ke 10 years mo kgolegelong kana P50 000 ke ngwaga mo kgolegelong.
Ke batla gore tsweetswee, a ko o e tlhalose yone eo gore re e tlhaloganye ka gore melao e yotlhe ya gago e e tlang mo go rona, le e tlang ka bo Tona ba bangwe, e tla e tlhalosa ka madi, e bo e boa e tlhalosa le kgolegelo, mme o fitlhela e le gore ga go na le fa e le correlation, ga go na tsamaisano kana tshwaragano mo dipalong tse le di bolelang.
Ke yone fela e ke kopang gore o tle o e tlhalose fa o ntse o tlhalosa tseo tsa bo Mahalapye Development Trust ka gore re eletsa thata gore melao e ya trusts e gagamadiwe gore di tle di tswele Batswana mosola ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Fela ntleng ga mafoko ao Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente le Tona, ke support Molao-kakanyetso o. Ke a leboga.

DR MATSHEKA (LOBATSE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise motsadi wa me.


Mpa ke leboge gore ke tlaa kgona go akgela ka bokhutshwane mo Bill e e beilweng pele ke Tona Mmusi, e e buang ka Trust Property Control.

Ke tlhomamise gape Mr Speaker, gore go botlhokwa jaaka go tlhalositswe go lebelela molao o re lebile ka fa re batlang go dira dilo ka teng mo Financial Intelligent Bill e neng e balwa ke Minister wa Finance.
Maikaelelo a matona mo Financial Intelligence Bill, ke go leka go bona gore re ka kgona go fokotsa jang the financing of terrorism, re kganele tiriso ya madi e e e tlaa amang ka fa lefatshe le le kgonang go bereka le mafatshe a mangwe ka teng mo tirisanyong ya kgwebo.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, jaaka Minister a tlhalositse, re fetole Bill e re kgone go tsenya mo teng ga molao o o baakanngwang, ba ba kwa mafatsheng a sele ba trustees tse di seyong mo lefatsheng le, service providers mo sector e ya trust management.

Jaanong it is very important Mr Speaker, gore amendments tse di nne teng gore di kgone go tsamaisana le Bill e e neng a balwa ke Tona wa finance regarding maikaelelo a rona a to comply le FATF go tlhomamisa gore go ntse jalo.
35 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading Nngwe ya dilo tse ke di itseng ke gore trusts, ntswa gone re bala mo Bill, re tswelela ka tsela e e ntseng jalo, re itse gore di na le maikaelelo a a siameng.

Maikaelelo a matona gore re kgone go tlisa what we described as beneficial owners le the guarantors tsa trust eo, re tshwanetse go itse gore ke bomang e bile objects tsa trust eo ke tse di ntseng jang, di ikaelela go dira eng.
Mo nakong e e ntsi di kgona go dirisiwa to destabilise lefatshe, kana go finance terrorism go tsena madi a a leswafetseng mo teng ga trust, mme a bo a ema kgatlhanong le maikaelelo a lefatshe la rona.

Jaanong …(Inaudible)… e bile re regulate ka fa e leng gore ka molao, trustees di tlhaloganya di itlamile gore di tlaa diragatsa jaaka go amogetswe gore trust e kgone go tsamaisiwa ka teng.
Ntlhang e nngwe e ke batlang go e bua ke gore jaaka go tlhalositswe mo Bill, go na le the different types of trusts, …(Inaudible)… trust which is recoverable, and the irrecoverable… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, I do not know if it is only on my side, I can hardly hear the Member of Parliament (MP).

If it is only on my side, then I may need assistance ya batho ba Information Technology (IT).

MR SPEAKER: No, I do not think it is just on your side.
Honourable Dr Matsheka, gakere Morolong ga o a baya pampiri fagare ga gago le selo sa makgoa se o buelang mo go sone?

DR MATSHEKA: Nnyaa rra, ke lebagane le yone fela jaana.

MR SPEAKER: Now you are clear, it is very much better.

DR MATSHEKA: Nnyaa, ke e susumedise rraetsho.

Mma ke ikgate motlhala go le go nyennyane gore ke kgone go nna consistent.
Ke ne ke tlhalosa Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore, amendments tse re di beilweng pele tse maikaelelo a tsone a matona, re e bale re lebile financial intelligence e e tlisitsweng ke Minister wa Finance.

Maikaelelo a matona ka Bill eo ke go leka go emisa the financing of terrorism, le go tlhomamisa gore madi otlhe a a tlang mo lefatsheng le ga a kitla a leswafatsa seemo sa Botswana mo tekatekanong le phadisano le mafatshe a mangwe.
Ka tsela e e ntseng jalo re godise itsholelo, e bile re tlhomamise gore re dira se se solofetsweng mo mafatsheng ka go farologana.

Ka jalo o tlaa bona jaaka go tlhaloswa mo Clause 2 ya Bill e gore go baakanngwa go tsenya foreign trusts as well as foreign trustees le service providers ba trusts.

Go re fa nako ya go tokafatsa molao wa rona gore re comply le FATF le ESAAMLG go tlhomamisa gore tota re dira se se tshwanetseng ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Le the identity of beneficiaries, go botlhokwa jaaka go tlhalosiwa mo Bill ya ga Rre Mmusi gore, re tshwanetse go itse gore ke bomang, guarantors ke bomang, service providers ke bomang gore re kgone go tlhomamisa gore ba sala melao morago e bile re kgone go bona gore who are the beneficial owners.

Beneficial owners ke ba re tshwanetseng go lebelela gore objects tsa trust di siametse to comply le maitlamo a rona under the FATF rules.

Ntlha e nngwe gape Mr Speaker, ke ya the placing of records.
Re godile re itse gore trust ke sephiri e bile ga gona yo o itseng gore gatwe go na le bomang mo teng, e bile o bona lawyer fela o le nosi.

Jaanong re itumelela gore you can actually view those records according to the law, o duetse a particular fee to the Master gore o kgone go bona gore trust e ke ya bomang, go na le bomang mo teng.

Re kganela dikgang tse Honourable Tshere a lekang go di bua, tse di duleng mo setlhogong se re se kopanetseng fa gompieno.
O tlaa bona gore molao o o consistent Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente le wa Financial Intelligence Agency (FIA), o o neng o balwa ka gore o bua ka beneficial ownership, which is really the crux of trying to remove the veil, re kgone go itse gore tota go na le bomang, what are the objects.

As I was saying, some of the trusts are responsible for destabilisation globally by financing of terrorism, because di simolola gotwe di siame di tlile go thusa batlhoki mo Africa.
Fa o ntse o bona gore batho ba jaanong ke bone ba rekang ditlhobolo, ba thusa go tlhakatlhakanya lefatshe kana ba a fa dithuto tse di lekang go tlhakatlhakanya batho tlhaloganyo, rona re leka go ba kaetsa tsela e e btoka ya go dira tiro e e ntseng jalo.

Ke tlhalose gape Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, gore there are different types of trusts.

Tse e leng gore they are always acceptable to tshenyo le tshenyetso- setšhaba, they are called charitable trusts.
O fitlhela gantsi di dirisa to change public opinion, di dirisiwa ditsela tse di farologanyeng.

Re tshwanetse re bone gore re tlhomamisa jang gore tota re tokafatsa ledula la lefatshe la rona ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Ntlha ya bofelo e ke tlhokanang go e bua Mr Speaker ke gore, fa o lebelela trust e gantsi o fitlhelang e dirisediwa to protect long lasting legacy, e bile e thusa fa e le gore o kgobokantse o kgone go sireletsa dithoto tsa bana ba 36 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading gago, gore re di tsene mo teng ga sekhukhu se o itseng gore go na le trustees ba ba lebeletseng gore e re kamoso o seyo, ba bo ba itse gore bana bone ba sireletsegile, ga go kitla go nna le medumo e e kalo ka dithoto tse o di tlogelang mo lefatsheng.
Jaanong go botlhokwa bakaulengwe gore le lona fa le bala molao o, le tle le akanye fa le bula trusts ka movable properties tse le ntseng le bua ka tsone, tse dingwe tse o kgonang go bona gore go ka dirwa jang, o tsenye those businesses under a trust gore go nne le a structure e e siametseng gore o ka kgona gore e re le o ka phutlhama gompieno, o bo o itse gore go sala go na le a whole trustee structure e o e dirisang go tsamaisa dilo tsa gago.
Ka mafoko a a kalo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke eme fa to support Bill ya ga Rre Mmusi.

Ke dumela gore tota e tlaa tlaleletsa mo mafokong a FIA.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Good afternoon Mr Speaker, mma ke go leboge gore le nna ke eme Molao- kakanyetso o nokeng.

Ke o ema nokeng ka gore ke batla gore o baakanngwe to align le molao wa FIA.
Fa go tsena molao o o ntseng jaana bogolo jang mo trusts, ke bua jaana ke le Mopalamente wa kwa Kgalagadi North … MR SPEAKER: We have lost you Minister, sengwe se diragetse ga re go utlwe ka kwano.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ke ne ke re paakanyo molao o ke o ema nokeng, ka gore it aligns le go baakanya molao wa Financial Intelligence.
Ke a o lebogela ka gore ke le Mopalamente wa Kgalagadi North, re na le trusts kwa Zutshwa, kwa …(Inaudible)… re na le trust kwa Inalegolo ya farm e e bidiwang Ilago le trust kwa Lokgwabe Mr Speaker.

Ke lebogela molao o ka gore o tlile go sireletsa dithoto tsa trusts, o tlile go lebelela dilo tseo.
Trusts di ntse di sa lebelelwe sentle di sa tsamaisiwe sentle, mme molao o fa ke o lebeletse jaanong kwadiso ya trust service providers ke kgato e e maleba gore ba ikwadise le Master of the High Court, gore le rona re le lefatshe re bone gore ba a comply le new regulations tsa FATF.

Fa ba sa dire jalo Mr Speaker, go tlaa nna le bothata mo lefatsheng la rona, bogolo jang kwa trusts kwa tshenyo e leng teng.
Fa ke tsweletse ke bua ka trusts Mr Speaker, especially mo molaong, re a itse gore madi a tswa kwa ntle.

A ko o tle go thusa trusts e bile re batla investors, e seng tse di tlileng go tlhatswa madi, re batla tse di phepa.

Re a itse gore go ka diragala gore go nne le investors tse di tswang kwa ntle, ba tlile go invest le rona kwa Zutshwa, kante bone ba tlile go tlhatswa madi.

Molao o o tlile go lebelela thatathata gore go diragala eng, bogolo jang mo borukutlhing jwa segompieno.
Mr Speaker, ke bua jaana ke rotloetsa bogolo jang ba ba okametseng trusts gore ba nne le maloko a a siameng e bile a kwadisitswe kwa High Court.

Gone go dira jalo go nne le bone ba re itse gore e tlaabo e le bone ba ba saenang.

Re ntsha magotswanyana a, re ntsha dilo tse di sa nnang sentle.

Ke sone se o bonang ke re, I support Bill eo.


E bile on the issue of foreign trustee ke supe fa ke dumalana le Molao o gore ...(inaudible)… foreign trustee ba tla ka dikitso tse di rileng, boitseanape jo bo rileng, mme e bile ke re go botlhokwa gore ba kopane le maloko a mo gae, gore go nne le transparency.

Fa re sa dire jalo, re ya go dirisa tsone Trusts go tlhatswa madi.
Ke sone se o bonang Molao o Tona Mmusi a o baya fa pele gore re tlhamaletse dilo bogolo jang in the Trusts ka re ntse re iphitlha ka tsone.

Ke bo ke bue gore, bogolo jang beneficial ownership e botlhokwa in the Trusts, ke dilo tse di botlhokwa Mr Speaker.

Gompieno tota re a bona gore kwa mafatsheng a mangwe a a tshwanang le bo Mozambique go kgona gore e bo e le gore terrorists are financed.
E le gore gompieno jaana fa o bona teng kwa Mozambique, o kgona go bona ditsuulodi tsele e le gore ba na le ditlhobolo tse e leng gore tota le sone sesole sa Mozambique ga ba na natso, tse di very powerful.

Fa o re o a tlhotlhomisa di tsene through the Trusts.

Fa molao o o tsena, o tlile go emisa borukutlhi jo, o tlile go emisa dilo tse.

Lefatshe e bo e le gore jaanong le tsena mo tseleng.

Ke re ke lebogele Tona Mmusi go bo a tlile ka molao o. Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.
MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mma ke tsene fela mo Molaong o Mr Speaker wa Trusts ka go supa gore ke mongwe wa melao e e dingalo.

Tota e batla gore fa re ntse re e lebelela jaana re bo re sa lebelele fela gore re leka go baakanya fale le fale gore mafatshe a se ka batho ba fitlha madi ka fa tlase Trusts.

Re o lebelele otlhe re bona gore a re ka se ke re thuse Batswana ka one.
Go botlhoko thata gompieno, fa o ka raya Motswana o re a itirele Trust ya gagwe, selo sa ntlha fela ke gore ga go letlelelwe ka fa molaong gore ordinary Motswana o ka tsaya form a tlatsa a bo a dira Trust, a bo a isa kwa High Court.

Ke gore golo moo gatwe go batlega gore o bo o na le agente, ke ene fela a ka go direlang jalo.

Jaanong ke ipotsa gore totatota golo 37 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading fa ke eng fa go ntse jalo Rre Mmusi, re sa kgone go thusa Batswana?

Kana kgang e, go a tura gape, ke madi a a gakgamatsang a e leng gore ga go lopiwe matsana.

Kana fa le gakologelwa go kile ga bo dikompone di kwadisiwa ke diagente, mme Mapalamente a pele ba nna ba lela ba leka go baakanya gore, e-e a dikompone di tswe mo diagenteng.

Go feletse go nna motlhofo fela gompieno motho mongwe le mongwe o ka ikwadisetsa kompone.
Ba batlang go ya kwa the secretary companies ba ka ya, mme fela ntlha eo e baakantswe.

Ke gakologelwa sentle gore Honourable Thanda Mokalake o kile a bua lengwe la malatsi a re, nnyaa kana dikgang tse bo conveyancing le tse dingwe go tlaare re di sekaseke, Batswana ba kgone to fill form fela ba bo ba itirela, ba isa.

O ne a amogela bogale jwa diagente jo bo kwa godimo thata gore, nnyaa jaanong o batla go diga dikgwebo tsa rona.
Re re bagaetsho ga re gane, go na le dikgwebo tsa batho ka fa, ka fa letlhakoreng le lengwe go na le Batswana, a re boneng gore golo fa they can benefit ba botlhe.

Re tshwanelwa ke gore re tsene mo goreng, mosola o motona wa ke Trust eng?

Trust e na le mosola, mme e bile le dipaakanyo tsa Molao o ga gona ope yo o ka ganang a re, nnyaa o a di gana.

Mosola o motona wa Trusts Mr Speaker, kana ke go dira gore go nne le mo gotweng ke legal protection ya dithoto tsa gago.
Ke gore fa ke le fa jaana ke le Ramogapi kana Honourable Eric Molale, nnyaa dithoto tsa gagwe di ka kgona gore di sirelediwe fela ke Trust e fa e le gore o na le yone.

Go bo go raya gore go nna le mo e leng gore…ke gore o farologanya… ke gore fa o tla o na le sekoloto jaanong, sekoloto se sa gago fa e le gore ke sa ga Ramogapi, se tlaabo se lebagane le nna fela, mme ga se ye go tsena ka dithotong tsele tsa me tsa Trust.
Golo mo ke mo re tshwanelang ke go rotloetsa Batswana gore ba nne le Trust ba kgone go e akola e ntse jaana.

E bile gape Trust ke golo mo go molemo thata mo re tshwanelang ke go rotloetsa Batswana gore ba nne le tsone ka gore, kana mo go tsheleng ga gago o tshela o itse gore gape one day you will die.

The distribution of your assets e nna motlhofo go gaisa le fa o ka bo o dirile le Will, ka gore o a bo o kwadile fela gore mme the Trustees will distribute your Will ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
So gone mo fela mo ya distribution of assets ke nngwe ya dintlha tse di molemo fela thata.

Kgang ya Personal Assets and Trust Property ke setse ke kile ka feta ka yone, mme le yone ke nngwe ya dintlha tse e leng gore e siame fela thata gore fa re e lebeletse Batswana ba ka e akola.
Go na le e nngwe gape e botlhokwa thata ya personal and financial matters, ke gore they remain private, ke gore fa o na le dithoto tsa gago tse, your personal financial matters, ga go tshwane jaaka o na le company e fa gongwe o tlaabong o patikisega ka fa molaong, jaaka le e tle le bone companies advertising financial statement mo daily news kana newspapers.

Jaanong Trust ga e batle jalo gore, you can advertise madi a gago.

E nna sephiri sa gago fela foo.


Le fa go ntse jalo, Molao o kana o re o baakanyang o jaanong, o supa gore fa motho a batla go ya go bona gore kwa Trust ya ga Ramogapi go na le bokae, o ka ya go bona, ba ntsha madi a rileng gore, mme rraetsho mma re bone gore bontsintsi jwa madi ao a gago ke bokae.

Fa ke gone fa dirukutlhi di neng di fitlha madi teng ka go itse gore the personal financial matters remains private.
Ke gone fa e neng e le gore jaanong dirukutlhi le ba ba neng ba dira Trusts ba bo ba fitlha madi ka tsone, ke gone mo go tshwenyang ba Lekgotla la FATF.

Ke re mme Molao o re o eme nokeng gore, mme Tona Mmusi go ka baakanngwa jaaka go ntse.
Go na le ntlha e nngwe gape e e botlhokwa e le yone e batlang gore re tswelele re kgothatse Batswana ka gore ba nne le Trusts, ke gore kana Batswana fa ba reeditse kwa gae ba tshwanetse go itse gore ba nne le control ya madi a bone, ya dithoto tsa bone, even after death.

Ke gore le fa o sena go nna o o swa, o bo o laotse fela o kwadile go le mo framework gore dithoto tse tsa gago di ya go tsamaya jaana, o ntse o sule.
Ke gore o a bo o laola fela o ntse o sule gore, mme le fa ke sule dilo tse tsa me tse di ya go tsamaya ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.

Ke re gone mo fela mo ke golo mo e leng gore Batswana fa ba na le gone fa re ntshitse dikgoreletsi tse dintsintsi tsa gore Batswana ba palelwe ke to register Trusts tsa bone, nnyaa ba kgona gore ba tshele sentle.

E nngwe ke e re reng e fokotsa mo re reng ke dikgwetlho tsa courts.
Gantsi boswa jaaka le bona gompieno go na le dikgang tsa bo mojaboswa jwa beng, maina a le a bonang a bo mojaboswa jwa beng, kana a bakiwa ke gore motho o a bo a ne a rile o dira Will, go lo fa go bo go raya gore kwa bofelong go na le yo mongwe jaanong o tla a ja boswa jwa beng.

Jaanong fa e le e ya Trust, o a kwala fela gore boswa jo jwa gago bo ya go tsamaisiwa jang le fa o sule.

Go bo go raya gore monate wa teng ke gore, ga gona ope yo o tsenelelang a tla a kgaoganya boswa a dira eng.
Re re tota trust yone ka bo yone e siame.

Ba ba neng ba e tsenya dilonyana Mr Speaker, ke bone ba ditsoulodi ba ba re tlelang ka mehoholela ba e leng gore jaanong ba dira gore Tona a bo a tla ka melao ya gore nnyaa, a re gagamatseng fale le fale ka gore dirukutlhi jaanong di ka tloga tsa bona chance gore ba ka fitlha ka fa 38 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading ba itse gore ka koo fa ba beile ba beile.
Molao o, ke o ema nokeng thata mme o batla gore fa o sena re o ema nokeng re bo re ya go bolelela Batswana gore trusts kana di baakantswe mme di batla jaana le jaana.

Fela selelo sa rona se setonatona ke gore nnyaa, batho betsho, a trusts tse re se ka ra nna re di tlogela fela, re leke gore re di baakanye mme gape e bile go na le trusts tse dingwe tse e leng gore ke tsa mo motseng.

Nnyaa, a boTona le bone ba ba lebaneng ba bone gore ga go gopelwe fela jaanong.
Go na le batho ba bangwe e leng gore trusts tsa motse tsone jaanong e le tsa community nnyaa, go ikgopelelwa fela.

Ke dilo tse di batlang gore fa re ntse re dira jaana mme golo gongwe ka gore ba itse gore ga gona mo gotweng go nne le report le structure fela se se rileng fa e se go ya go neelwa morago, go nne le golo gongwe fa e leng gore nnyaa, le bone ba kgone go thusa morafe ka gore morafe fa gongwe ga o a tsena sekole thata.

Ba ba botlhalenyana bone ba bo ba tla ba tsietsa morafe fela jalojalo.
Mr Speaker, re ema jaana re ema nokeng Molao o wa Trust re re nnyaa, mme fa o ka dirwa sentle o ka boloka le bone Batswana.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, I support the Bill.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Ramogapi.

Honourable Mabuse Pule; Minister, you have the floor.

OF MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR PULE): Thank you Mr Speaker, ngwaga o mošha.

Ke gone ke buang fa e sa le Palamente e simologa ka Mantaga.
Ke lebogele thata thata dibui tse di sa tswang go bua pele ga me ka gore go a bonala tota gore jaanong re ntse re sidilega maikutlo.

Re bona botlhokwa jwa go dira melao e gompieno e beilweng fa pele ga rona.
Thatathata Mr Speaker, ke ne ke batla go simolola ka go akgola Tona Peggy Serame le Matona a a neng a gokagana le ene ba bona botlhokwa jwa gore melao e e ntseng jaana e tshwanetse gore e baakanngwe gore e tle e re tsenye fa re tlaabong re ka tshela teng sentle jaaka re itse gore re kile ra nna le stress ra nna traumatised re na le mo gotweng greylisting e e neng ya felela e kete o kare jaanong e tlaa re ntsha mo tseleng re sa kgone gore dilo tsa rona di tsamae sentle.
Ke a mo akgola thata le Matona a mangwe who cooperated with her gore ba bone botlhokwa jwa go dira jaana mme e bile gongwe re dire golo mo ka bonako gore e re fa ba FATF le ba ESAAMLG ba tla ka September, ba fitlhele melao ya rona e le malala-a- laotswe.

e re le baeteledipele jaaka re le Mapalamente.
Ga re ka ke ra ikgatholosa thuso e e kanakana e re e fiwang ke mekgatlho e e leng gore e ipopile ya re ithaopela gore ba re thuse bobaba jo bo kanakana jo bo diragalang mo lefatsheng, especially rona ba Aforika ka gore dilo tse dintsi tse dingwe tse di diragalang mo lefatsheng la rona mo Aforika le gone mo Botswana le mafatshe a Southern African Development Community (SADC) di dirwa ke batho ba ba tswang kwa ntle mme ba tla ba tshotse botsipa jo ba bo tsayang koo gore ba ka tsenelela merero ya rona jang gore ba itirele se ba se batlang.
Jaanong tota re tshwanetse gore ba rotlhe ba re leng fa re eme ka dinao re eme nokeng dikgato tse di tserweng ke Tona Serame le Matona a mangwe a a amegang mo melaong e tota e tshwanetseng gore le yone e fetolwe ka ntata ya gore the whole thing is about consequential amendments ka gore tota fa re sa dire melao yotlhe e mengwe re e tlogela kwa morago, re tlaabo re sa dira sepe.
E bile ga re batle gore lefatshe la rona le tswelele le le mo khumanegong ya gongwe e itirelwang ke batho ba tsaya madi a rona ba a dirisa ka fa ba batlang ka teng.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke ne ke re ke kgaogane (share) fela experience ya me e ke kileng ka nna le yone fa ke le moeteledipele wa Lephata la Omang ka bo 2006/07.
Ke ne ke na le a lot of experience ka batho ba ba neng ba tla mo Botswana ba bo ba kwadisa (register) trusts kwa Deeds and then mo tlase ga trusts tsa bone ba bo ba tsamaisa dikereke.

Go ne ga nna le bangwe ba ba neng ba tla e le botsotsi e le gore ba tla fa ba tshotse mamphemphe a madi ba tsena kwa dikerekeng tsa bone ba a baya kwa malwapeng a bo a nna a tabola a isa kwa kerekeng le kwa bankeng e kete ke meneelo.
Ba bangwe ba bone ba ne ba felela ba tshwerwe mme ba bangwe ba bone ba ne ba felela ba tshabile.

Ba bangwe ba bone ba ne ba felela ba kobilwe mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Dilo tse ke tsone tse e leng gore ba FATF le ba ESAAMLG ba re thusa ka tsone ka gore tota cases tse di ntseng jaana nna ke a di itse ke a di tlhaloganya e bile re a itse gore ba bangwe tota ba humanegisitse lefatshe la Botswana.
Jaanong a re dumalaneng fela ka bongwe jwa pelo go fetisa melao e e tshwanang le e e e ka re thusang gore re kgone gore economy ya rona re e tlhabolole ka fa re ka e tlhabololang ka teng.

Kana fa re na le mathata a a tshwanang le re kgoreletsega thata go tlhabolola economy ya rona.

Ke ne ke re ke tlhalose thata Tona gore kana this thing e bua thata ka global requirements tsa FATF le ESAAMLG e e leng gore lefatshe la Botswana ke leloko la yone.
Re le Batswana ga re ka ke ra ikgatholosa thuso e e kanakana Ga ke batle go bua ka boleele Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente mme ke ne ke re fela ke nankole Section 4 e ke e itumeletseng thata e e buang ka go kwadisa trusts e bo e tsenya tshetlana e e reng mongwe le mongwe yo 39 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading o ipelaetsang, e kare ka nako nngwe le nngwe a batlang ka yone during working hours, a bo a ntsha file ya trust nngwe e a batlang go e sekaseka.

Temana e Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke e bone gape fa e le gore ke gakologelwa sentle mo molaong o o bidiwang gotwe the Societies Act, go na le section nngwe e e rialong e le gore mongwe le mongwe yo o ipelaetsang can at any time during working hours, a bo a ya kwa Lephateng la Omang a ya go kopa go bona file ya society nngwe.
Ga ke itse gore a ba e ntshitse mme Tona Annah Mokgethi fa e le gore e dule gongwe ke ene a ka nkgakololang mme fela ka gore sa le ke dule koo bogologolonyana mme fela ke ne ka bona tshetlana eo fa ke kopana le yone ke le kwa Lephateng la Omang bogologolo mme ka fitlhela e le tshetlana e e botlhokwa thata e e supang gore tota lefatshe la rona le transparent.

Fa ke e bona e le mo le nna ke a jabula.


Ke a bona tota gore re le lefatshe re tlhoafetse re batla go lwantsha borukutlhi jo re bo bonang batho ba tla ka mamphemphe a madi ba a rwele ka dikgetsi mme ba a fitlha golo gongwe ba nna ba a tabola ba ya go a tlhatswa ka dikereke tse di kwadisitsweng mo tlase ga trusts.

Ke ratile gape thata Section 9 e e buang ka gore a foreign trustee o tshwanetse gore a patelediwe to administer or dispose of the trust property mo lefatsheng la Botswana.
For me, this is very wonderful because go raya gore rona re le lefatshe we will benefit.

Mongwame jaaka ke tlhalositse gore ga ke batle go nna moleele, ka mafoko a a kalo Mr Speaker, ke ne ke rata fela gore ke re ke fetse ka gore ke support tsenyo tshetla e kana Molao- kakanyetso o ka diatla tsoopedi le tlhaloganyo yotlhe ke re re letlelele Tona a o fetise gore go tle go kgone go ya go diragadiwa.
Se ke se eletsang fela ke gore fa re na le molao o o ntseng jaana re tshwanetse gore re o dirise gore o tle o re solegele molemo.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL SECURITY DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD (MR MOLEBATSI): Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.
Boammaaruri ke gore fela jaaka re fetola melao e mengwe ka yone tshekatsheko ya FATF le ESAAMLG e e supang gore lefatshe la rona le supa gore le ka nna le diphatlha tse e leng gore tshenyetso-setšhaba le madi a a leswe a a tswang kwa mafatsheng a mangwe a ka tsena ka lefatshe la rona, go botlhokwa gore le one Molao wa Trust Property Control o baakanngwe Honourable Speaker.
Kana Honourable Speaker kana bakaulengwe le tlaa bona le ka Companies Act, re baakanyetsa gore se setona fela re supe gore go pateletse gore trust fela jaaka dikompone, e nne le a Deed of Trust e e leng gore e tshwanetse gore e kwadisiwe (registered) e nne kwa go Registrar mme go pateletse gore trust nngwe le nngwe go nne jalo.

Kana sone seo ke sone se se tlaa thusang Puso gore re kgone go bona gore tota beng ba trust eo ke bo mang kana beneficiary tsa trust eo ke bo mang.
Jaaka molao o bua mo Clause 3 e bua gore kana for purposes of identifying the beneficiaries, go tshwanetse gore go papamale re bone maina a bone, physical address, postal address and identification number mme selo se se a pateletsa.
Ke tsone dingwe dilo tse re tshwanetseng gore re di dire gore e bo e le gore fa information e e le teng, fela jaaka ya dikompone, kompone e tshwanetse gore e nne le constitution re bone gore beng ba kompone ke bo mang e bo e le gore nnyaa, re le public fela re ka kgona go itse gore trust e ke ya bo mang.

Kana ba ba tlhotlhomisang; e ka nna ba makalana a a tlhotlhomisang, e bo e le gore ba fiwa gore go nne motlhofo gore ba kgone go itse gore trust ke ya bomang.
Mokaulengwe Motlotlegi Pule o ne a sa tswa go bua gore batho ba ne ba tswa kwa forming trusts mo Botswana, e bo e re ka fa tlase ga trust eo, go bo go runya kereke.

Kana trust e tsamaelana le bo foundation; bo Molemole Foundation.
Motho can form foundation a e bitsa Molemole Foundation kana Saleshando Foundation, e le gore tota o batla go e dirisetsa fela gore madi a a tswang koo e bo e le gore a tsena gone foo e bo e le gore nnyaa jaanong madi a teng a fologelela fela ko go ene a a a ja ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Go botlhokwa gore re itse, le gone go nne public gore re itse gore batho bao ke bomang, kana go nne motlhofo gore fa go batliwa information ya beneficial owners e bo e le gore re e bona motlhofo.
Ke leka gore ke gatelele Clause 2 on this bill, it amends definition kana go kaya gore beneficial owner ke mang.

Beneficial owner re e amend gore e tsamaelane le ya Financial Intelligence Act (FIA), e ke dumelang gore kwa FIA beneficial owner kana tshosoerweleng yo e leng gore tota ke ene moji, ke ene tota yo e leng gore kgabagare ke ene a akolang trust.

Gore clause ya teng e supa gore a tlhaloso ya teng e tsamaelane le ya FIA.
Ke sone se se dirang gore dilo tse di tsamaelane, gore go ne go tlhokafala gore re dire fela jalo re se ka ra define se ka tsela e ka kwa, re define ka tsela e nngwe.

Go botlhokwa gore go dirwe jalo.

Go na le dikai kana dikgang tse dintsintsi tse e leng gore madi a a leswe a tsene ka tsone custodians tse, mo Botswana go go ntsi, go diragetse.

Rona re itse 40 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading gore trusts e ne e dirwa trust, le kwa football team tota.

Football team e ne e tswa e runya ka fa tlase ga trust, o fitlhela e le gore golo fa go na le madi fela.

Le fa e le trust, go tlaabo gotwe nnyaa trust go na le batho ba ba e emang nokeng ba le kwa mafatshefatsheng ba le kwa go bo United Kingdom (UK), ba bangwe o tlaa utlwa gotwe go na le batho ba tswa kwa mafatsheng a kwa eastern Europe ba thusa trust yone eo.
Motho a dirile trust a e simolotse fela a re it operates bana, e e leng gore fa ngwana a lwala a na le bogole bongwe, e tlaabo e le gore madi a teng a dirisiwa gone moo.

E bo e le gore o tsamaya a kopa madi ka yone.

Madi a teng fa a tsena fa, ba bangwe yes e siame, go na le tse dingwe tse go diriwang jalo e le gore ke go tla go tlhatswa madi; money laundering.

Go a diragala mo mafatsheng a mantsi, le gone mo Botswana go a diragala bagaetsho.

Ke raya gore jaanong go botlhokwa gore go nne fela jalo.
Go na le gone gore one madi ao kana gantsi a dirisiwa mo service providers.

Madi a a tsena gotwe ke a trust, e bo e le gore go rekwa dikoloi, mantlo, gotwe ke service providers.
Dikoloi tse ke tse e leng gore di dira tiro ya trust, o bo o bona e le gore nnyaa jaanong go na le bangwe ba e leng gore Range Rover tsone tsa trust tse, gotwe ke service provider, ke fa sekai, e reka Ranger Rover e le gore trusts ke tse e leng gore di a akola di nna mo mantlong a a magasigasi, o bo o kgona go bona gore go ne go dirisiwa trust gore madi a yone a tle go sapota botshelo jone jo bo manobonobo jo bo ntseng jalo.
Molao-kakanyetso o ne o e bua ka service provider fela thata, e a tlhalosa gore re tshwanetse re itse gore dilo tse fa madi a fetelela gone fa a ya go dirisiwa jang, the trustees tsone tseo ke bomang, ke ba mofuta ofe.

E bo e bua gape kwa Clause 8 ka appointment of trustee or co-trustee by master, gotwe fa motho a na le trust e bile a le kgakala a le kwa ntle kwa, mo gae mo go tshwanetse gore go nne le co-trustee yo e leng gore ke wa mo gae.
Gore e bo e le gore jaanong re botsa ene gore Makgoa one a a kgakalakgakala a a dirang trust mo Botswana, kwano how do we trace dilo tsa bone, o bo o kgona gore o arabe on behalf of those trustees.

Ke se ka ka dia nako ke re re a o amogela, ke molao o o tlaa nnang sentle thata, o o tlaa dirang gore batho ba se ka ba tla go tlhatswa madi mo lefatsheng la rona, ba tlhatswa ba re ba dira trusts.
Ka a le kalo ke re ke o ema nokeng, ke go eme nokeng Tona, a o fete molao gore batho ba se ka ba dirisa tsone trusts.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

MR KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke tlaa leka thata go bua Setswana mo kakgelong ya me ya Trust Property Control Bill, 2021 (No.

37 of 2021).

Mr Speaker, ke tsaya gore trusts di setse di tlhalositswe mo definition ya tsone.
Ga se la ntlha re debate molao- kakanyetso one o, re ne ra o debate ke a dumela gore ke ka 2018.

Go a tlhokafala Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente gore mo dithutong tse re di fang bana ba rona mo dikolong, go simolola fela kwa primaries, secondary, go ya go tsena kwa universities, dilo tse di tshwanang le tse tsa trusts, ba di rutilwe.
Jaaka maabane ke ne ke bua ka virtual assets; bone bo crypto currencies and so forth, o fitlhela e le gore kitso e a tlhaela, mme e bile gape go nna bonya to infuse that kind of education kana thuto eo mo baneng ba rona, especially mo curriculum.

Fa o tsaya gongwe dithuto o setse o le kwa university tsa molao, gongwe ke gone kwa e leng gore you will be dealing with trusts.
Generally, fela an average Motswana fela fa o ka tsena mo station o bo o re o botsa batho ka trusts, go nna dingalonyana gore o ka fitlhela batho ba itse gore trusts ke eng, e bile mosola wa tsone e ka nna eng.
These assets di botlhokwa jaaka Honourable Ramogapi a ntse a bua, ka gore nngwe ya advantages tse a ntseng a di bua, ke tsa bo gore, kana fa o lebelela batho ba bangwe ba e leng gore ba ne ba nna le mo go tweng generational wealth, ke gore khumo e e tswang e ya kwa baneng le bana ba bana ba bana ba bana, o fitlhela e le gore trusts played a role e ntsi thata mo gone moo mo go reng dikgwebo tse dingwe e bo e le gore mong wa dikgwebo tseo ke trusts.
Jaanong fa go ntse jalo, o fitlhela e le gore go yeng fela kwa kokomaneng, batho ba kgona gore ba nne le khumo yone eo.

Jaanong thuto e e tshwanetse, e maleba gore e se ka ya nna o kare trusts jaaka di dirisitswe e le tshono ya go humisa batho, e bo e le gore jaanong ke tshono fela e e leng gore e mo bangweng ba e leng gore ba tsena mo seatleng.
Re a itse gore trusts gape bogolo jang tsa property trust, mengwe ya mosola wa tsone ke gore fa batho ba tlhokafetse e le gore gongwe properties tsa bone di mo di trust, they avoid a probate, ke gore the administration of estate e e leng gore e a dirwa fa motho a tlhokafetse mme e diriwa ke kgotlakgolo ya ditsheko, this can be avoided through trusts because it is a very lengthy and costly process.

So fa gongwe trusts o fitlhela e le gore gongwe di a thusa fa go ntse jalo.
Mo gongwe o ka fitlhela e le gore savings mo estate taxes is one way of advantages of trusts.

Most importantly, kana fa dithoto di le mo trust, o fitlhela e le gore go le 41 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading gantsinyana they are insulated from certain creditors.

I am not saying all creditors, gakere le yone trust e ka nna ya nna le loans, liabilities tse di ka nnang teng.
Fela o fitlhela e le gore by and large fa dithoto di le mo trust, gantsinyana they are insulated from the creditors.

Ke dingwe tsa dithoto tse e leng gore di botlhokwa, Batswana ba tshwanetse gore ba di itse gore o ka nna wa boloka kana wa sireletsa dithoto tsa gago mo trust kgatlhanong le ba e leng gore gongwe e kare kamoso ba bo ba tla ba re o a ba kolota.
Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kana lebaka le letonatona la gore re bo re discuss kgang e ke recommendation 80 ya FATF, which is basically on combating the abuse of non-profit organisations.

Honourable Ramogapi o ntse a bua ka charitable trusts kana foundations.

Kana fa o lebelela Non-Profit Organisations (NPOs) le tse dingwe tse e leng gore they may not be trusts, go lemotshegile gore di ka dirisiwa go tsamaisa borukutlhi jwa itsholelo le madi.
Ke gore mo ke neng ke re ke fiscal and revenue crimes kana financial and economic crimes.

Go botlhokwa thata go itse kgang e gore lebaka la gore re bo re debate molao o o tlang ka Honourable Mmusi, ke gore we need to prevent fiscal and revenue crimes.

Borukutlhi jwa madi le go gopela itsholelo bo kgona go fitlhelelwa ka makalana a a dirilweng mme a diretswe gore a se ka a dira profit.
Go itshupile mo ditlhotlhomisong tse di setseng di fetile, even pele ga 9/11 gore NPOs di kgona go dirisiwa for terrorist financing, even financing of proliferation ya weapons of mass destruction.

Ke gore go sponsor borukutlhi jwa terrorism le go dira dibetsa tsa mmolao wa kgailo.

Jaanong tota maikaelelo ke gone to stop abuse ya NPOs.
Jaanong kana dithoto tse di ka tsenngwang mo trusts di farologane, e ka nna madi, corporate stocks, bonds, real estates, not only matlo le dikago, but real estate in the sense ya real estate le life insurance.

Jaanong selo se se tshwanetseng gore se elwe tlhoko thata ke gone gore kana jaaka bangwe ba ntse ba bua, e tlaabo e le gore gongwe go na le a charitable trust kana a foundation e e tlaabong e kwadisitswe.
Jaanong fa e le gore ga go elwe tlhoko gore e ka tsaya loans kana ya fiwa donations ka tsela e e ntseng jang, e ka nna le dithoto ka tsela e e ntseng jang, le gore dithoto tse di ka rekisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, go raya gore fa go kgona gore go nne le kgonego ya fiscal and revenue crimes, including money laundering, racketeering and fraud.

So ke sone se tota se tshwanetseng gore ka molao o, to make sure gore se lebelelwa thata, le fa go setse go tla go dirwa regulations.
Jaanong Honourable Mmusi, fa e leng gore bakaulengwe, bogolo jang ba Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) ba tshwanetse gore ba ele tlhoko thata, ke gone mo re ka se kang ra iphitlhela e le gore re mo go kgoreletseng go tsamaisa makgotla a sepolotiki, re iphitlhile ka gore re leka to prevent abuse of NPOs.

Some of the non-profit making organisations ke political parties, mme ebile go ka kgonega.

I will give example ya African National Congress (ANC).

ANC Investment Arm ke Chancellor House.


Chancellor House is owned by a trust, that trust not so long ago admitted gore yes, we fund the ANC.

Indeed re le Botswana Congress Party (BCP), that is the direction we are going, of having investment arms of having trusts.

I believe gore in future le the coalition UDC, that is they direction that we will go.

Ga re batle gore re bo re tla go kgoreletsa because you have an obligation le le Goromente.
You have an obligation ya gore under United Nations (UN), African Union (AU), even yone FATF, ya gore le a patelesega ka fa Molaomotheo wa Botswana, International Humanitarian Law, international law gore le sireletse tshwanelo ya gore re ikgobokanye, re bue ka tshosologo, re leke to shape public opinion.

Ke ne ke utlwa Honourable Matsheka a bua gore some of the trusts di kgona gore di dirisiwe to shape public opinions.

What is wrong with that?


Ga re register trust e e leng gore maikaelelo a yone ke go thusa BCP kana UDC, re tlhamaletse fela, re tlaabo re sa dire sepe se e leng gore ga se ka fa molaong.

We must be very careful about the regulations tse di tlaabong di dirwa.

We must be very careful and study these laws thata, re tle re bone gore dikgoreletsi tse di ka tswa fa go ntseng jang.
Ke eng ke bua puo e Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke buisiwa ke se; fa o lebelela bagwebi ba batona mo lefatsheng la Botswana, go bonolo, go a eletsega e bile go ba sologela molemo gore ba ikamanye le party e e busang.

Ga gona le fa e le mathata.

Ee, ba tla ba tshwere dikgetsi tsa madi le tse ba di tshwereng ba di neela party e e busang.
Re ba bone kwa dikgannyeng tsa Botswana Television (Btv), e le gore ba tlile go lebogiwa mo moletlong mongwe mme go ne go sa bonale thata Batswana ba sekei ba bantsho jaaka nna le Honourable Molebatsi.

Go ne go lebega go na le ba letso lengwe.


Jaanong ke buisiwa puo e ke gore go thata ya lentswe gore re ka bona dithuso mo bagwebing ba ba leng mo teng ga lefatshe la Botswana, ba ba gwebang ba rekisa dikoloi, ba hirisa buildings mo ga Goromente ka gore ga ke itse Batswana ba bantsi ba ba hirisang buildings 42 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading tse ditonatona mo go Goromente.
Motho a hirisa flats tsa motseletsele, tse di kgonang go nna palo ya batho ba heta 100, e le Motswana wa sekei yo o tshwanang le nna le Honourable Saleshando.

Ga nke ke ba bona, ba palonyana e e tsenang mo seatleng, re ka ba bua gone fa, ba palonyana e nnyennyane.

Jaanong the rest ba e leng gore ke bagwebi ba batona, ke dikompone tse ditona tse di agang ditsela, dipatela le dikole, ke bone ba ba rotloetsang the ruling party.
Jaanong fa re dirisa trusts tse di tlaabong di own dikompone, dikompone tse maikaelelo a tsone e le go thusa diphathi tsa kganetso e le gore trusts tse di tlaa nna le donations, even from foreigners, from outside lefatshe la Botswana, e bo e le gore a re se ka ra kgorelediwa fela ka gore maikaelelo a rona is to exercise out constitutional right, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, including le yone freedom ya religion le ya belief mo dikerekeng tse dingwe.
Tlhobaelo ya me e gone foo Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, gore I hope maikaelelo ga se go tla go kgoreletsa diphathi tsa kganetso mo ditseleng tsa gore ba batle madi to campaign.

Go campaign go tura fela thata.

Ga go kgathalesege gore Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) mo nngweng ya ditsamaiso tsa yone, ke gore gatwe Mopalamente a se ka a spend madi, in the past go ne gotwe P50 000, o kare madi a teng a bo a oketswa gotwe bo P200 000, but ga se madi golo moo.
Fa o lebeletse mo ditlhophong, sekale sone se se beilweng se ba a itse, ga se madi.

Madi a mantsi a a tshelwa in the ruling party.

Why do you think Honourable Kekgonegile, that treasurer wa the ruling party ke Rre Satar Dada, yo e leng gore he is a car magnate, property magnate and controls the poultry industry?

Why do you think Jagdish Shah ke deputy treasurer wa the ruling party?

It is to make sure that the ruling party is financially secure ga e ya kwa ditlhophong.
Jaanong rona our financial security e ya go tswa mo goreng re nne le investment arms, charitable trusts tse e leng gore they can get loans and donations from ba e leng gore they believe in our cause ya go advance democracy mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Jaanong ke ne ke re kgang e re e ele tlhoko thata.

Tsamaya o ye go ruta Batswana Honourable Minister ka dikgang tsa trusts, di tsenye mo curriculums bana ba ithute, ba se ka ba kopana le tsone kwa universities go buiwa ka trusts.
A ba di tlhaloganye ka bophara, ba itse gore wealth can be generated through the trusts.

Re se ka ra di bua e kete re di leswefatsa fela.

We know that bangwe ba ne ba register dikereke and owned by trusts, ba dira dilo tse di hakgamatsang ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Le yone melao e go ntseng gotwe batho ba ne ba tshwarwa and deported, we were saying in the past gore a re baakanyeng melao ya rona yotlhe.
Honourable Mabuse Pule o a itse, many people were declared persona non grata ba latlhelwa kwa ntle gotwe ba botlhabetsi ka ditsela tse di ntseng jalo.

You know, transparency and accountability is very very important.

I am glad that le gone mo recommendations tsa FATF, fa o ka lebelela all the documents tse e leng gore FATF, ESMLAAG di bua ka tsone, they emphasise transparency and accountability.

Mo go dirwang dilo go iphitlhilwe, motho a ntshiwa ka leso legolo gotwe ke criminal, a latlhelwa kwa ntle.
Re a itse gore academics, journalists, ba ba neng ba sa bue tse di eletswang ke Puso, ba ne ba felela ba tsena mo visa restriction lists.

Ba tswa mo mafatsheng a e leng... HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR KEORAPETSE: Rra?

Ga ke a go utlwa Honourable Healy.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Ba ne ba dirwa ke mang?

Examples tse o ntseng o re di fa gore academics tseo, di ne di diriwa persona non grata ke mang?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Healy, ga o tlotle Speaker o tsena fela.
MR KEORAPETSE: Nnyaa, o siame le fa a tsene fela.

Ke Goromente wa Domkrag.

Mphe Tautona a le mongwefela yo a iseng a declare ope a Prohibited Immigrant (PI) under the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP).

Ke selo sa Domkrag.

Ke gore Domkrag e ntse jalo, ga e na reform capacity.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, kwa ntle ga go golola tlou le maroo, ke gakolole ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
These assets placed into fiduciary relationship between trustor and trustees for beneficiaries, tse re di bitsang re re ke trusts, a bana ba rona ba rutiwe ka tsone.

Ba itse gore di bereka ka tsela e e ntseng jang, di ka ba tshedisa jang.

A re eleng tlhoko lona thata ba kganetso, tsamayang le ye go bala molao o.

Le batle diagente di o bale, regulations tse di tlaa tlang under this law, a re di tlhodumeleng.
Re bone maikaelelo a. Gakere ga ke tshephe Mosau le Domkrag, ke a bo ke itse gore maikaelelo a bo a le teng le fa gompieno go bewa e kete gatwe sengwe le sengwe se normal.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

43 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.

37 OF 2021) Second Reading HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister Mmusi, reply to the debate.

…Silence… MR KEORAPETSE: O siile Mr Speaker.

Ga se yo a ka nnang.

O siile.


MR SPEAKER: O sia eng?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mr Speaker, a re o na le a connection problem, he is trying to connect.

MR SPEAKER: Why did he disconnect?

rutuntsha batho.

Ba tlhalositse ka bokgabane fela thata, ba a tlhaloganya.

Ke rotloetsa Mapalamente a a tlotlegang gore fa ba tswa fa, molao o re tswe rotlhe, re ye go o anamisa re o rute Batswana.

Jaaka ba buile, ba itse advantages tsa go dira trusts.
Tota ke gore go sirelediwe gore trust e dirisediwe dilo tse di tlhamaletseng.

Molao o re o bayang o, re o beela gore trust e dirisediwe dilo tse di tlhamaletseng, tse di siameng, tse e leng gore ga di na go tsisa borukutlhi, tshenyetso-setšhaba, kana eng mo Botswana.

Re batla gore trusts tse, di tle go direla lefatshe leno.

Di dirwe gore go sirelediwe dithoto tsa Batswana jaaka ba itiretse.

Ba batla gore dithoto tse ba di dirileng di tle go akolwa ke bana ba bone gore le bone ba ipulele trusts.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: That is what is unknown to me Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: He should have been listening to the debate, ene he is disconnecting.

Re a itse gore mo dikgaolong jaaka Honourable Tshere a buile ka Mahalapye Development Trust, di tshwanetse di kwadisiwe, maloko a tsone a itsiwe, sengwe le sengwe se nne sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND SECURITY (MR MMUSI): My apology.

Ke ne ke sa log off mongwame.

MR SPEAKER: Reply to the debate.


MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, ke lebogela dikakgelo tse di builweng ke bakaulengwe jaaka ba ne ba akgela, e bile botlhe tota ba dumalana.

Ke batla go latlhela mo go tse pedi, tse tharo.

Honourable Tshere o ne a bua gore go dira trusts, go a tura.

Gompieno fa o ya kwa go Master of the High Court, madi a go dira trust ke P250.00 fela.

Re tsweletse ka go itsise Batswana ka go dirisa trusts.
Go na le pamphlets tse di dirilweng tse di bolelang gore go dirisa trust go dirwa jang, melao e e salwang morago ke eng, o tlatsa eng, difomo di teng, sengwe le sengwe.

Gompieno le fa o le an individual, o setse o itse o gore o ye go tlatsa fela form and then submit.

Re na le Lephata la Legal Aid mo Ministry of Defence, Justice and Security.

Le na le setshwantsho sa motshikinyego se se bidiwang Mmueledi Wame.

Mmueledi Wame thatathata ke go ruta Batswana ka mananeo a a diragadiwang a Lephata la Justice.
Le ke lengwe la ba tlaabong ba ntse ba ruta ka lone.

Ke itumeletse kgang ya ga Honourable Keorapetse ya gore go rutiwe banana go tswa kwa tlase, students le Mmueledi Wame.

Ke gone jaaka re leka thata go Dilo tse ke tsone tse fa o bona re ntse re gagamatsa melao Honourable Tshere, re raya gore melao e e tle e tlhamalale, e dirisiwe sentle, le trusts tse di benefit beng ba tsone.

Honourable Ramogapi o buile thata go le gontle.


Le ene ke mmolelele gore thutuntsho e tsweletse ka go farologanya jaaka ke bua, go na le pamphlets le mmueledi wa me.

Jaaka o ne o bua gore financial statements tse dingwe di tsenngwa mo dipampiring, mme thatathata kana financial statements go tsenngwa tsa companies that are listed mo stock exchange ka gore the shareholders tsa teng ba bantsi, ba bangwe ga ba kgone go ya kwa companies tseo gore ba bone gore go diragala eng.
So, for transparency ba a kwala gore ba ba nang le diabe mo companies tsone tse ba itse gore go diragala eng, ba bone maduo a tsone.

Molao oo ke a o itumelela, ke itumelela kemo nokeng ya lona.

Ke le itsise bo honourable gore melao e yotlhe e re e fetisang, ke e re batlang go tokafatsa botshelo jwa Motswana.

Ga re ka ke ra dira melao go tla go sotla Motswana kgotsa go dira sepe.

Ke a itse gore le maabane ke ne ke le koo ke tlisitse molao, le bua gore ke tlisa molao o o sa tlhamalalang.
Melao e yotlhe fela, le one o ke neng ke o tlisitse maabane, e tlile gore fa ke tla go e ala, le tlaa bona jaaka e tlhomagana gore melao e tota e diretswe go tla go thusa Batswana le lefatshe la Botswana gore le kgone go tsamaega sentle.

Re se ka ra ba ra nna mo mathateng a re kileng ra nna mo go one.

E bile nako yone eo fa re le mo grey listing, le ne le ntse le re omanya fela thata le ntse 44 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022TRUST PROPERTY CONTROL BILL, 2021 (NO.
37 OF 2021) Second Reading le bua gore re paletswe ke go tsamaisa, mme ra hema, ra lwa gore re tswe mo grey listing.

Jaanong re netefatsa gore we stay on the right road, le rona re sale morago ditsamaiso tsa lekgotla lone le re leng mo go lone gore re kgone go dirisana sentle le mafatshe a mangwe.

Mr Speaker, mafoko a me a kalo in responding to everyone.

Ke itumelela gore botlhe they have supported me, e bile ba ne ba se bantsi ba ba neng ba akgela, gone go se na ope yo o neng a na le dikakgelo.
Honourable Keorapetse kwa bofelong o ne a polotika.

Re le ba Puso gompieno, re tlisitse melao, tota ga re a tla fa go kgopakgopetsa ope.

Fa Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) kgotsa Botswana Congress Party (BCP) e batla go itirela trust, le yone e a letlelelwa gore e iterele trust, go se ka ga ba ga nna le fa e le bothata bope.

E bile ga ke bone e ka tsenngwa ke ope dingalo, e setse melao e e leng teng morago e e tsamaisang lefatshe.

Fela ka one mafoko a o Mr Speaker, ke a leboga.


I beg to move that the Trust Property Control Bill, 2021 (No.

37 of 2021) be read a second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Committee -Later Date.

SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021) Second Reading MINISTER OF NATIONALITY, IMMIGRATION AND GENDER AFFAIRS (MS MOKGETHI): Thank you Mr Speaker.
The Societies Act CAP 18:01, was first promulgated in 1972 with the objective of providing for the registration and regulation of Non- Profit Organisations (NPOs) registered in Botswana.

The act has gone through several amendments and reviews and the last review was in 2016 resulting in the current society’s management and regularity system.

Numerous developments have taken place since this act was last amended in 2016.
This include issues of money laundering as well as Government Accounting and Budgeting System (GABS) in the regulation of registered societies.

These issues need to be addressed to ensure conformity with global and international standards.

The Societies Act provides for the registration and regulation of NPOs such as Burial Societies, churches including political parties and football clubs.
Following the 911 terror attacks in New York-United States of America (USA), the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) introduced nine statute recommendations against financing of terrorism.

The NPOs were classified as one of the sectors susceptible to abuse for purposes of terrorism financing and money laundering.

Recommendation 8 addresses NPOs vulnerabilities and threats through targeted regulation and monitoring.
It exhorts countries to review their laws and legislation relating to NPOs in particular, targeting NPOs which has been identified as being vulnerable to terrorism and its financing.

In 2018, following the amendment of the Financial Intelligent Act (FIA), the Registrar of Societies was designated a supervisor of NPOs in terms of FIA.

Consequently the Registrar conducted an NPO sector risk assessment to determine the level of risk and their vulnerability.
The risk assessment revealed that some societies in Botswana are at high risk of being used as confutes for money laundering and terrorism financing.

Furthermore, record keeping within the NPO sector has emerged as a serious challenge, making it difficult to trace the origins of certain funds as well as the ultimate beneficiaries of the funds transacted.
The purpose of the Societies Amendment Bill 2021 is to align the Societies Act with the FIA and the Counter Terrorism Act in and endeavour to curb money laundering, terrorism financing and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

This will also incorporate some of the requirements found in Recommendation 8 of the FATF standards.

The recommendation calls for adequate measures to ensure that non-profit sector is not abused for money laundering and terrorism financing.
I will now proceed to the outlining of the amendments made on the revised Act: Clause V of the Bill removes exemption so that all societies registered with Registrar of Societies for monitoring and supervision minimising risk of commission of financial offences.

Exempted societies are currently being waved from screening formalities of identifying the controllers of the society, as well as its operations which defeats the purpose of converting financial crimes.
Clause 6 of the Bill empowers the Registrar to refuse to register a society, where for instance a society or its office bearers is subject to sanctions, embargoes of similar measures issued by the United Nation Security Council.

Registrar of Societies has not been empowered to refuse registration of a society where and individual 45 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading among members applying for registrations has links with listed organisations or individuals, and/or has been found guilty of a crime in the area within which the wish to operate.

Clause 7 of the Bill provides for qualification criteria for office bearers of a society, to ensure that such office bearers are fit and proper persons.

Therefore minimising the risk of commission of financial offences within societies.
Clause 9 of the Bill provides for cancellation of registration of a society where the society has committed financial offence.

Currently the Act does not empower the Registrar to cancel a society that engages in or facilitates human trafficking, money laundering, terrorism financing and proliferations of weapons of mass distraction.

Clause 10 (13v), (14e) and (22) of the Bill increases penalties for offences under the Societies Act.
The Societies Act does not provide for effective, proportionate and dissuasive sanctions for violation of any money laundering and terrorism financing obligations as stipulated in the FATF methodology.

Lastly, Clause 32 of the Bill provides that societies exempted the commencement of this Act, shall within 12 months apply for registration to the Registrar of Societies.

registration prior from the to Mr Speaker, I therefore move that this Societies (Amendment) Bill (No.
38 of 2021) be read before this House for the second time.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Minister.

Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the floor is open for debates.

MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Mr Speaker, e re ntswa Bill e motho a ne a ka tshwanelwa ke go dumalana le yone, mme e ntshita go dumalana le yone mo Clause 7.

Ke tsaya gore go diragetse phoso, kana gongwe Minister ga a ela tlhoko.
Ke tlaa kopa gore ke e bale, ya re, disqualification for office bearers, Clause 7 e bo e re, “A person shall not qualify for appointment as a member for continuing to hold office if he or she is at the time for appointment a member of the National Assembly, a Councilor, Member of Ntlo ya Dikgosi or the holder of an office in a political party.” Phoso e e tona e ke tsayang gore Tona o e dirile, o lebetse gore kana political parties are registered under Societies Act.
Se se raya gore sekai, Tautona Masisi o a qualify gore a nne le society, mme molao o a mo disqualify.

Ke belaela 46 gore e rile fa le kanoka molao o, le bo le lebeletse fela gore kwa mafatsheng a mangwe political parties ba na le ka fa ba kwadisang societies ka teng.

Mo lefatsheng la Botswana re na le mathata a gore political parties ga gona gope kwa di kwadisiwang teng, fela fa e se under Societies Act.
Ke tsaya gore kgang e ga e ntšha mo go lona, e kile ya tlhagoga ka nako ya Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), fa ba ne ba leka go baakanya Molaomotheo wa bone gore kana e kwadisitswe ka fa tlase ga Societies Act.
E le gore ba bangwe ba re ga ba na thata ya go baakanya, ya nna madiadia go fitlhelela ba Attorney Generals ba bona gore mma re intervene re leke go baakanya kgang e. Ke tsaya gore lepolotiki ke le Ramogapi jaana ke ka itirela party, fa e le gore jaanong it disqualifies me, gone foo go tlaabo go raya gore ga re direle Batswana sentle.

Ntlha e, ke kopa gore ka mowa o e seng wa sepolotiki o o montle, re e lebelele thata gore a mme tota re a bo re e lebeletse sentle.
Fa e le gore gongwe le nna go na le fa ke fosang teng, Tona a re gakolole gore rona re e lebeletse jaana.

Ka fa ke e balang ka teng Mr Speaker e tlhamaletse fela, ga e na le fa e le bana ba phefo bape gore Mapalamente le Makhanselara ba disqualified.

Mathata a rona ke one ao gore, tota re na le tshwanelo ya go dira political parties, kwa ntleng ga go dira mekgatlho e mengwe ya dikereke le tse dingwe jalojalo.
Ke tsaya gore fa jaanong ga re a e farologanya gore unless motho a batla go dira political party e e welang fa.

Jaanong e nngwe gape e ke bonang o kare e tlaa tla e ntshita le yone, go na le fa Clause 6 e buang teng e batla go gana go register group ya batho fa e le gore maikaelelo a bone ke sepolotiki.

Kana e le yone e kare e ntse e batlile go ya kwa go ya 7.
Ga gona gope kwa sepolotiki se ka kwadisiwang teng, so le fa ke ka tswa ke na le connection mo mokgatlhong le ba African National Congress (ANC) kwa South Africa kana le bape fela, a ke letlelelwe.

Jaanong Clause 6 le yone, ke a itse gore ga re ise re tsene mo clauses Mr Speaker, re santse re bua generally mme fela dintlha tseo di setse di mphatlha.

Ke simolole fela ka tsone gore nnyaa, o kare ga re a lebelela… MR TSHERE: Elucidation.

Thank you very much.


Honourable Ramogapi, ke utlwa sentle e bile ke go tlhaloganya sentle kgang e o e buang, ka gore fa o setse o e bua jaana ke a tshwantshanya le Clause 16.

E balega jaana Honourable Speaker if I can read it, the winding up of society, winding up of society ke tsaya gore go Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.

38 OF 2021)Second Reading ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.
Ke ne ke le mo go yone six, ga ke itse gore a o e tlhaloganya jaaka nna.

Ke batla gore o tlhalose gone foo.

Nna ke utlwa e re, “the Registrar may refuse to registrar a society where he or she is satisfied that the society is a branch or the affiliated or connected.” O raya gore Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) e ka kwadisa branch mo Botswana?

African National Congress (ANC) e ka kwadisa branch mo Botswana?

Akere a re “is a branch or an affiliate,” go tlaabo go siame?
MR RAMOGAPI: Kana se re se dirang re le makgotla a dipolotiki, re nna affiliated to other political parties.

Re ka nna ra nna mo o kareng ke branch ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Mma ke go fe sekai, go raya gore ga o itse dipolotiki tsa Botswana, e rile fa bo Botswana Peoples Party (BPP) ba simologa mo lefatsheng la Botswana ba ne ba dirisanya thata mo o ka bang wa re ke branches kana affiliates le diphathi tsa kwa Ghana, le bo South Africa, tsa bo Pan African, le ANC, fela jalojalo... HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... MR RAMOGAPI: Rra?

So go ne go na le... MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Member, order!


It is now 7 o’clock, may I call upon the Leader of the House Your Honour the Vice President to move a Motion of adjournment sir.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, as you requested I move that this House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 7:00 p.m. until Thursday 27th January, 2022 at 11:00 a.m. tewa o dissolve society.
“The Registrar shall by notice publish in the gazette wind up a society if; a) 2 thirds majority of the member of the society resolved that the society be wind up.” Mma ke eme gone foo, kana here molao jaanong wa re go raya gore, gore re dissolve parties re tshwanetse go bo go na le 2 thirds majority from the party.
Jaanong I find this to be …e nna o ka re it is prescribing to the parties gore, le tshwanetse gore mo Molaomotheong wa lona go raya le tshwanetse go kwala le re, for the party to be resolved go tlhoka 2 thirds majority.

How can molao be so detective to the society?

Ke eng re ne re sa ba letlelele gore ba kgone go itlhophela gone foo?

Ke tsaya gore dilo tse di a tshwaragana, o ka re go kgopakgopetsana le sepolotiki Ramogapi jaaka o bona.

Ke a leboga.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga.
Through you Mr Speaker, ntetlelele gape ke bale Clause 6, “The Registrar may refuse to register a society where he or she is satisfied that the society is a branch of a branch of affiliated to connected with an organisation or a group established outside Botswana of a political nature.” Mma ke e tswale gone foo, ke gore e supa fela gore Registrar le ene gape fa e le gore ke batla go kwadisa mokgatlho kwano, mme e le gore mokgatlho o ke batlang go o kwadisa o ke wa sepolotiki, mme e bile o na le kamano le makgotla mangwe a sepolotiki, jaaka e le gore diphathi tsa dipolotiki kana di na le ditsala.
Sekai, Domkrag... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke tlaa tla ke go e neela.

Sekai, Domkrag e na le ditsala tsa bone kwa Zimbabwe le Ennyelane, Botswana Congress Party (BCP) le yone e na le ditsala tsa yone kwa Ennyelane, fela jalojalo.

Jaanong fa e le gore Registrar e ka re a lebelela a bo a re, “a-e batho ba ba connected le ba bangwe ka kwa ka sepolotiki, go raya gore ga ba kwadisiwe.” Ke re golo fa le gone... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le Al-Qaeda sir.
MR RAMOGAPI: Go bua mang jaanong, ka nna ke emetse Molebatsi gore o rile clarification ke rile ke tlaa mo e neela?

Ke tsaya gore Tona o a e tlhaloganya.

Mma ke neele Honourable Molebatsi ga a bolo go nkopa Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Molebatsi yes.

47 Hansard No 204Wednesday 26th January, 2022SOCIETIES BILL, 2021 (NO.
38 OF 2021)Second Reading HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.

B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 48 Hansard No 204