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■'bJm.o together with the proceedings of the Committee, evidences and appendices before the Joint Select Committee on “The White Paper — Proposed Terms of a Constitution for the Independent Belize”.

Appointed by Order of the House of Representatives dated the 29 January 1981 and of the Senate dated 3 February 1981.
* I ♦ ■fc Seventh Meeting of the Joint Select Committee Appointed to examine, consider and report on the White Paper - Proposed Terms of a Constitution for the Independent Belize, held in Orange Walk Town, Tuesday, February 24, 1981.

VERBATIM - 9:00 a.m. Chairman: Meeting of the Joint Select Committee of the National Assembly.

This session is taking place in Orange Walk Town.

I have three comments.which I would like to make.


First of all that this Committee has, takes its authority and its power from a Resolution passed in the National Assembly in both Houses.

That Resolution authorizes us to consider the 'White Paper proposed by the Government of Belize for the Independence Constitution.

Our job is to consider that White Paper and to report upon it, having first canvassed the views of all the people of Belize.
That means that our business is the White Paper,.what it contains, recommendations for its alteration or addition; but we have no business with anything else.

That is the first point that I would like to make.

Second point, that I would like to make is i that these are proceedings of the National As^ably - a Committee of the National Assembly and as such it operates subject to.
the rules of the National Assembly and the rules of the National Assembly provide that proceedings in Committees of the National Assembly may not be published until the Committee has reported its findings.

If there are any member of the Press present here today, please bear this in mind, because failure to observe these rules is a contempt of the National Assembly and is punishable as a contempt.
And then the third thing which I would wish to say is that any person or representative of any organisation who wishes to be heard by this Committee, anybody, please give your names to the Clerk so that we have a list of persons in some sort of an order.

The first person who would wish to address the Committee then come forward while the clerk makes his list.

Mr. Courtenay: Would you please have a seat.

Your name please.
Your name please.

'J Wilfredo Alonzo:; Wilfredo Alonzo - Executive Secretary of the Belize Cane Farmers' Association, Orange Walk District Division.

Mr. Courtenay: You are the Executive Secretary of the Belize Cane Farmers' Association, Orange Walk District Division and accompanying you are: Alonzo: Mr. Wilfredo Alonzo - Executive Secretary, Belize Cane.Farmers' Association Division, Orange Walk.
Mr. Margarito Vega - Director, Mr. Jose Copo - Vice Chairman, Mr. Adolfo Toledano - Director of the Association.

« p a 2 Courtenay: Please tell us what you have to say.
Alonzo: At a Meeting held yesterday they have appointed me to speak for the members of the Orange Walk Committee and it says: "The Orange Walk District Divisional Committee has read the White Paper outlining the proposed terms for a Constitution for the Independent Belize, and they are very mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic system of Government.

They are also aware of the preamble proposed to include a guarantee for our human rights and recognition of the supremacy of God.
Be it resolved that the Orange Walk Branch of the Belize Cane Farmers' Association supports the proposed terms as outlined in the White Paper subject to the following amendments: (1) that the Constitution for the Independent Belize shall include: (a) the Belizean National Prayer (b) the Belizean National Anthem - Land of the Gods (c) the Belizean Flag - the Coat of Arms of Belize in a White circle with a blue rectangular background (d) a pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America which shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize (e) that the said pledge of loyalty be taken by all persons who apply for citizenship.
, (2) that lack of respect for our National symbols shall constitute an 0 offense against the people Of Belize.

(3) that any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces o • , ■ of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship.

no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another (4) that country (5) that the geographical boundaries of Belize be clearly and properly defined.
(6) that article 12b under CITIZENSHIP be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in any obscure business.

(7) that Article 43 be amended to include "Belizean citizens born in Belize, eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election."
(8) -that the proposed National Anthem - Land of the Gods - be reviewed with the view of taking into consideration the words "freedom comes tomorrow's noon".

After Independence these words no longer applies.

(gj Human Rights and Fundamental Freedom Page 5(h) - Everyone shall have the right to freedom of education thought, conscience and religion .... (10) the status in quo of church and state - to remain the same as it presently exists.

And this is the submission of the Orange Walk Committee.

o 3.
o 3.

Courtenay: Can I ask particularly, you talk a little more on point:: number 10, yes - you speak about the status in quo - was this included in the Church/State.

religious Church/State Education arrangement.

You ■are thinking of that particularly?

•Mr.

Musa: You said something on freedom of education, What you have in mind?
; Alonzo: The Committee has in mind that inserting the word freedom of education, protection of freedom of conscience - this particular section ij deals particularly only with the religious activities so we say by including education as a whole we say that everyone should have the right .to freedom of education plus conscience and religion so it would based on religion and education, not only education but religion also.

Courtenay: To be more specifically, what you are saying is.
a person To be more s should:be free to have the education he chooses, Anything he wants he can choose to have it.

Musa: It doesn't concern whether it is free or not in the literaly sense; that’s not your concern.

Alonzo: No Musa: You have the access to it.

f Al;onzo: No - I mean free to choose’.


Courtenay: Any other questions, if there are no more questions it is best for me to thank the Association and other members who have come forward to represent them today, the records of the proceedings of this Committee will show the gratitude to this Committee for your kind ...contribution.

Thank you very much.

Courtenay: What is your name?

Belizario Carballo: Belizario Carballo.


CourtenayAnd may I have the names please: Mr. Belizario Carballo, Mr. Jenaro Baiza, Mr. Santiago Rosado, Mr.!

Ricardo Castillo, Mr. Fortunato Cervantes, Leopoldo Briceno and Mr. Victor Ayuso.

That’s seven of you and you represent?

a Carballo: Orange.Walk Town Board, Courtenay: Orange Walk Town Board.

4.
Carballo: at the last meeting of the Orange Walk Town Board, we At the last discussed the White Paper and as:a result of this discussion the Town Board has passed the following resolution, which they have asked me to o* presentto the Joint Select.Committee and it reads: Whereas the Orange Walk Town Board has studied the White Paper issued by v.. the Government of Belize on the proposed terms of a Constitution for the Independent Belize, be it resolved that the Orange Walk Town Board accepts the terms of the White Paper and proposes the following amendments:- (1) that local authorities be given more autonomy to handle their n own affairs and to appoint its own municipal police to look after local matters such as traffic, park regulations and other matters affecting the welfare of the citizens of the municipality; (2) that the Belizean Prayer, the Belizean flag and the Belizean Anthem be included in the constitution;.
(3) that a pledge of loyalty be included and made obligatory to be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize; and (4) that Article 43 be amended to provide that only Belizean born citizens be eligible to run for political office.

Courtenay: Thank you very much.

Mr. Carballo is there anything apart Thank you very much.

<•' • • • , f 5 a from the Resolution which you are authorised to add.

Carballo: No Sir.

Just the Resolution.


Courtenay: May I have a copy of your resolution, is there any other spare copies.

I would like to thank you very much, very much for your presentation.

Carballo: I would like to clarify Article 43.

Thank you.
Thank you.

Prior to Article 43 you find out that as long.as people are living five years in Belize the year of Independence you are eligible to be a citizen of Belize and Article 43 says as long as you are a citizen of Belize you can come under political office, now what will happen - let's take for example Orange Walk Town you have an inflow of about 3 to 4,000 foreigners, furthermore they become Belizean citizen when you find out they'll be running our town.
Sb that's the reason why we way we want it to be included; it has to be Belizean born, then their children after eighteen years, they are a true Belizean born citizen.

Not by.merely just becoming a citizen or living five years in this country.
Courtenay: Well, the Committee respects your submission and therefore 4 considers your view, but by way of explanation in the Constitution where citizenship should be concerned there will be a citizenship law like any other country and that would prescribe everything about 5. citizenship for instance, although you may have a right to apply to citizenship after five years, that does not mean that when you apply your application will' be accepted.
There may be reasons and there may be provisions within the citizenship which you could be disqualify you.

Apart from that, that the Government must retain a discretion, there are times when there are matters of which the state is aware in mattery of its security in which cannot and will not publish because it will be in the hands and detriment of the entire public.
But nevertheless you can take it into account if some individual cotnes up he has any fault, and who comes before the state with such an accusation .■So then, the Government will have to make position and the legislature will make a specific one but in addition to that there is always a discretion.

If you notice under the British system, publication is made;.to the public to make objections to a person who apply.

The probability is.
The probability is.

our legislature will stay the same way, that it will happen to Belizean citizenship as well, that not only the Government will be, checking this citizenry as well.

So I just want to make this point clear, the Constitution itself have everything in it but it does set up the basic rights.

Courtenay: The Constitution itself can't have everything in it, but ■ > it does set up the rights of the individual.

The basic rights.
The basic rights.

Now how those rights^ are to be exercised is going to be set up clearly in subsidiary laws, in other.

The constitution will be the supreme law of the lands.

Courtenay: The next person please, and it is Mr. Gonzalo Torres, who I have next in my list.

... Mr. Gonzalo Torres I see that you have a written submission.

Gonzalo: Yes, and I am the Secretary of the Village Council of Chan Pine Ridge.

Courtenay: And you bring before us, the following document.
Having read the White Paper outlining the proposed terms for a Constitution for the Independent Belize.

Mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic system of Government.

Aware of the preamble : proposed to, include a guarantee for our human rights and recognition of the supremacy of God.
Be it resolved, that the people of Chan Pine Ridge village supports the proposed terms as outlined in the White Paper subject to the following amendments: (1) That the Constitution for the Independent Belize shall include (a) the Belizean National Prayer (b) the Belizean National Anthem - Land of the Gods (o) the Belizean flag - the Coat of Arms of Belize in a White circle with a Blue rectangular background, (d) a pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America which shall J I 6. shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize} (2) that lack respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence against the o people of Belize;(3) that any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces of any country, other than Belize,shall lose his ' citizenship;(4)that no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of anothei country} (5) that the geographical boundaries of Belize be clearly and properly defined} (6) that Article 12b under Citizenship be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have ho’t been involved in any obscure business or have Belizean children five years prior to Independence; (7) that Article 43 be amended to include only — "Belizean citizens born in Belize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election.” This Resolution is signed by citizens of Chan Pine Ridge and attached is a list of names.
May I ask the name of the gentleman who accompanies you.

Mr. Torres : Mr. Mateo Tzul Courtenay: Mr. Torres and Mr. Tzul thank you very, very much for spending your time for coming here to As today and we want to thaiik you for your effort of getting the opinion of the people of Chan Pine Ridge and we also ’./ant to send back to your village our gratitude for sending uS this message.

Thank you very much.

Torres: Thank you very much.

Courtenay: Your name?

Damian Mendez: Damian Mendez from Nuevo San.Juan.


Courtenay: Who is the gentlemian accompaning you?

Damian Mendez: Eusebio Blanco, a Councillor.

Courtenay: And you also a Village Councillor?

Mendez: Chairman of the Village Council 0 t Courtenay■ reads: Having read the White Paper outlining the proposed terms for a What's your submission.

Again the signatures, and it Constitution for the Independent.Belize.

Mindful of its provisions a to provide for a Christian democratic system of government.
Aware of the preamble proposed to include a guarantee for our Human Rights and recognition of the Supremacy of God.
Be it resolved that the people ,!■ 7. of Nuevo San Juan Village supports the proposed terms as outlined in the White Paper subject to the following amendments: (1) that the Constitution for the Independent Belize shall include (a) the-Belizean National Prayer; (b) the Belizioah National Anthem - Land of the Gods; (c) the Belizean Flag the Coat of Arms of Belize in ’White circle with a Blue rectangular background; (d) a pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America which shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize; (2) that lack of respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence against the people of Belize; (3) that any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship; (4) that no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another country; (5) that the geographical boundaries of Belize be clearly and properly defined; (6) that Article 12b under Citizenship be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in any obscure business or have Belizean children five years prior to Independence; (7) that Article 43 be amended to include only - "Belizean citizens born in Belize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election."
Courtenay: To it is added an additional page to which are signatures.

Are these signatures of people living in Nuevo San Juan?

< Mendez: Yes,.

Sir.

Courtenay: In addition it has this to say, " We villagers of Nuevo San Juan approve the movement of Liberation and White Paper proposals with with our personal signatures.

Also signed by the Chairman of the Village Council and a Councillor.

Is there more question?


Well Mr. Chairman, its left for me to thank you very much for-' spending your time coming here to us this morning, to thank you and your councillor for considering the White Pap'er and for making the proposals which you have made and we ask you to take ■ back to your village oiir thanks from the Committee for their opinions.

Thank you very much.

Courtenay: ''Mrs Terry Orio Mrs. Orio: Yes; good morning.
Courtenay: Good morning; and you live in Orange Walk Town, You have a submission to make?

8.

Mrs. Orio: Yes; but I think that Mr. Carballo will be presenting it, or whatever message he have, its not me particularly, he will be representing the People's United Party Executive Committee.

Courtenay: I see; you are appearing as a member of the Executive • Committee.

: The Executive Committee for which division?

The Orange Walk North you.

or Orange Walk Town Division?


Who is the gentleman accompanying Mr. Carballo?

Mr. Carballo: Cervantes.

Its Mr. Genaro Baiza.

Mr. Francisco Orio and Mr. Fortunato Courtenay: Will you go ahead Mr. Belizario Carballo?

Carballo: This is a resolution presented on behalf of the People's United Party Executive Committee.

The Executive Committee of the Orange Walk Branch and it reads; "Having read the White Paper outlining the .. proposed.
terms for a Constitution for the Independent Belize, Mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic system of Government, aware of the preamble proposed to include a guarantee for our Human Rights and recognition of the Supremacy of God, be it- resolved that the Orange Walk Branch of the People's United Party supports the proposed terms as outlined in the White Paper subject to the following amendments: (1) that the Constitution for the .
Independent Belize shall include - (a) the Belizean National Prayer; (b) The Belizean National Anthem - Land of the Gods; (c) the Belizean Flag - the Coat of.Arms of Beliz.e in a White circle with the Blue rectangular background; (d) a pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America, which shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize; (2) that lack of respect for our National symbols shall constitute an offence against the people of Belize; (3) that any citizen of Belize who.
serves as a member of the armes forces of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship; (4) that no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another country; (5) that the geographical boundries of Belize be clearly and properly defined; (6) that Article 12 (b) under citizenship be amended to include "only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in any obscure business or have Belizean children five years prior to Independence; (7) that Article 43 be amended to include only Belizean citizens born in Belize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date a of his nomination for election."
9.

Courtenay: We wish to first of all thank you, Mr. Carballo and gentlemen for your very clear Resolution and we wish to thank you, secondly f>r your time spent here with us this morning in considering the White Paper and to express our gratitude to your Executive Committee.

Mr. Ernesto Reyes.

Mr. Ernesto Reyes, may I ask you where you live?

Mr. E. Reyes: Yes, Orange Walk Town.

Courtenay: Do you come forward representing any group or as a citizen?

Reyes: As a citizen.


I agree to the Independence of Belize.

Courtenay: Do you have anything else to say in the White Paper?

Reyes: It's legal.

I accept it.

Courtenay: Thank you very much Mr. Ernesto Reyes.

...

Yes ladies and gentlemen that's the extent of my list which I have here for the moment, but the Committee is still willing and anxious to hear the views 9 of anybody else who would wish to come forward and tell us what they wish about the White Paper.

Courtenay: Yes your name please?


Mr. Exikiel Herbert: Exikiel Herbert from Cindarella.

Courtenay: And do you come representing any group or as a citizen?

Herbert: As a citizen.

Me and my wife.

I support the White'Paper.

Courtenay: And is there anything else you want to tell us?

You don't propose any amendments or anything like that?

Q Herbert: Nothing more.

Courtenay: ’Well thank you: both very much for your, words of support and we are pleased that you came to let us know.
We wouldn't know if you had not come Courtenay: Yes, please come forward.

Where do you live?

Juan Dorado Jr.: 42 San Antonio Road.

10.

Courtenay: And do citizen?

you come forward representing any group or as a Hr Durado: As a citizen.

Courtenay: Please, we'll be happy to hear what you have to say.

Durado: I think the White Paper is alright considering it is fairly well written.

But the Section with the Attorney General ...

I wonder if he will not have too much powers.


On Page 10 Section 21 "In the exercise of his functions the Attorney General shall not be subject to the direction or control of any person or authority".

I am worried about that section.

Courtenay: You are worried about that Section, If there is anything you would wish to say to the Committee, please feel free to do sb.
Durado: Yes, Page 21 - "The Director of Public Prosecutions" - "He shall have power to institute, control, take over and discontinue all criminal prosecutions" - and he won’t be subject to control.

Courtenay: No, it doesn't say that.

Durado: He will be appointed by the Governor-General under the advice of the Prime Minister.

I wonder if he wouldn't feel that he would be sort of doing the Prime ■ Minister a favour seeing that he is being picked by the Prime Minister Courtenay: Yes, go ahead.
Durado: On the question of Citizenship.

The Section dealing with persons who are living in the Country for five years.

I think that there are too Guatemalans in the country already And that they will come into many this country and they will .want to take us over, and that they will discriminate - something sort of a 'green march'.

- .

° .

Courtenay: So you would like to see that five years a longer period, Do you have any particular period you would like to recommend?
Durado: Maybe ten; maybe double it.

Courtenay: O.K.

ten or.twenty.

?

4 o 11.

Durado: I think there is something on collective responsibility, I think it is working but I wonder if it would work after Independence?

If you turn to Page 18 you will see that the provision there conflicts with collective responsibility.

Courtenay: Collective responsibility if I remember rightly is dealt with under the Executive.

You wonder if it will work.


Durado: I think it becomes contrary to Section 23 where there can be a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister.

Now collective responsibility should be that all Ministers will be responsible for whatever action is taken.

Now, where there is a vote of no confidence, I think it contemplates that it could happen in the House.

Of course, in the House some Members of the Cabinet could say we support the Govern­ ment in certain action.

Do you think it could ever happen?


Courtenay: Your fear is that such an action could never succeed.

Tell us about what concern you: we may not have the answer but you are worried and you must tell us what you are worried about.

r Durado: I think I can figure it now.

With regards to Section 58(b), it deals with amendment to the Constitution.

It says three-fourths.

You think that is enough?

I would like to see that higher.

O Courtenay: Well, is there anything else you would like to say?
Durado: How about the separation of powers?

Hoe Independent will these bodies be?

I can't even make it out.

I notice that the Prime Minister will appoint the Chief Justice Courtenay: Those are your points.

I don't know but maybe we can't convince you., but at least we can try to tell you what was intended.

Maybe it will make you feel better at the end of it or make you feel worst; but let us go through it quickly.

First of all, in Paragraph 21, where the Attorney General is concerned.
First of all, the Attorney General is a professional man and his work is in a professional capacity; he is the only Minister who works in a professional capacity, right?

His main function is to give Government legal advice.

Now, it is hoped that Government is going to get unbiased and untainted legal advice.
They will be told what the law is as it is, without political pressure and the hope there is that the Attorney General will be so protected that his colleagues can't push him the way they want, or that his constituency can't push him the way they want.

He will give his legal advice to the Government, take it or leave it as the law is.

Durado: So that is what the Section is about.

'■ 't '!

'• 12.

Courtenay.


That is what,that is about .... to ensure that he can give his professional advice without being influenced by what is going to be the political consequence.

His colleagues will worry about the political consequences; but that's another matter.

The first thing they must get is the truth about what the law is.

Durado: The Attorney General will be a politician?

Courtenay: He will be a politician.


So that if we ask the present ■ 1 ' Attorney General whp is with us today, Mr. Musa, what' is the law on: '''' anything he must tell us.

The first thing we want is the truth and then we will decide what we will do.

in the light of the truth.

How Government will react, So that is the purpose of that.
Now, the second thing that you asked us about was the 'at: Director of Public Prosecutions who has the tremendous power of prosecution, over the lives of citizens where crime is concerned.‘ Now, there are two things we want to remember.

First of all, first thing you have to realize is that the existing Director of Public Prosecutions has these powers today, so that they are not strange powers to us; we are accustomed to them, that's the first thing.
And then the second thing that we must look at is that there is a curb on his powers.

First of all, there is a preliminary enquiry into a crime, and if there is no evidence the Magistrate will throw it out.

No matter what the Director of Public Prosecution thinks, the Magistrate will throw it out.

Secondly, trial is by jury, and if he can't produce evidence that is going to convict somebody, the man is going to be released.

He will have protection of his liberty, right?


He is considered innocent until the Director of Public Prosecutions proves him guilty.

So that although he has these big powers, the way our system operates, he can't put the man in jail; it's the court that puts him in jail, So that's your second problem; and I'm just, as I say, telling you what is on our minds.

Durado: Right.

Courtenay:.

Now, when it comes to citizenship - this is a matter of judgement.

You think that five years is too short.


Government has proposed five years, and if people in the country generally think that five years is too short - and let me say, you are not the first person who has said this 7 1 o Durado: I have heard comments.

13.

Courtenay: Obviously, VJe will reconsider what we have to do.

So, we are happy to hear of your concern, but that is a matter of judgement.
Then Paragraph 18 which is Collective Responsibility and the question of whether you think ever in Belize there is going to be an issue on which there is a vote of no confidence would succeed.

First of all, let me explain to you how this collective responsibility works.

In Cabinet.we do not take a vote; we don't take a vote, because if we take a vote, there will be those who are for something and those who are against.

.

■ .

r. ■ Durado: I thought that you could have a vote of no confidence.

.
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Courtenay: Hold on .... so that we discuss a problem until we can arrive at a decision that everybody can accept.

So, there's never a situation where the Cabinet does not accept the decision.

You discuss it and you change your position until everybody can live with it.

If it so happens that one man can't live with the position of all the decision of his colleagues, then he sticks out like a sore thumb.

Then his duty if he cannot follow an important matter of policy is to resign.
That is where the colletive responsibility comes in.

That once you have adjusted the position of them so that everybody supports it, then everybody is bound by it.

You can't go outside and say well that's a matter about.Public Works and that's a Mr. Hunter's business so I don't care.

Once we have taken a policy care.

decision to build a road from Corozal to Belize City and to go by the new route, I am bound by that; I cannot criticise it, I must support it.

because it is my decision.


And then, when it comes to the falling of a Government - well obviously, a Government would fall if it took a decision that was so unpopular that the individual politician is being told by his constituents if you support that we are not going to put you back in the House, So that it ,would have to be such an unwise decision that the people will not support it.
This is the whole idea of democracy - that the people tell you, as a Representative - like you might go and tell Mr. Briceno: 'if as you support that, I will not vote for you again".

Then he begins to worry whether his decision was correct because his people will not support him.

Durado: There are cases that this can happen.

Courtenay: I know.

There are cases in which we change things because that happens; there are lots of cases like that.

Now, this majority.
Now, this majority.

I don't know if you have looked at this scheme.

But the scheme is that the House will grow bigger, and if the 14 House grows bigger, to get a three-quarters majorityit's going to be, grows bigger, to get a I think, quite a job to get a three-quarters majority.

It's going a job to get a to take quite a job to get that, especially if you have the two party job to get that, system as we contemplate.

So that it means that there will have to be a g contemplate.
general feeling: in the country of support for that measure before you will ever get a three-quarters majority.

The strong probability is you will have to get a vote from some members of the Opposition.

So, it will have to be something that is very well supported.

So, these are the probabilities upon which that figure is based.

And then, finally, you asked about the question of the separation of powers.
Now, this is a theory - the separation of powers is a theory which is applied to Constitutional Government.

But the question you asked me is a question that I would ask you of any other Constitution.

The Government has to govern.

And you will find that in almost every country the Judiciary is selected by the Head of Government.

In the United States, it is the President who nominates judges.
In England, the system is different; it is a Judge who recommends Judges to the Queen but that Judge - it's a very curious position, is a member of Cabinet; so that it is again the Government's wishes where Judges are concerned.

You have a very strange one in England that a man by the name of - the Lord Chancellor, who is the head of the Judiciary is the man who makes the recommendations to the Queen, and he is not only a Judge, but he is also a •> a Minister of Government.
So, that the Government must have its say; it cannot have a court in which it has no confidence.

Durado: It's different.

Like in America, for instance, where a Judge can fine a President in a Court in that kind of Constitution.

Courtenay: Well, this is a different kind of Constitution.

Durado: Well, I think that something has to be added here, I don't I .

think that all countries' Constitution will have this.

Courtenay: Tell us what you think.


Durado: What should in case any future Government in the country violates the Constitution?

Should there be a penalty?

Again, the new penalty.... Courtenay: Veil, there is no penalty.

What there is, is a provision giving there is no penalty the And that is Paragraph 5.

Supreme Court absolute power to correct any breach of the Constitution.
Well, you have to look at two things - you have look at Paragraph 2 and Paragraph 5 - that even if the Government to passes a law which is contrary to the Constitution - Paragraph 2. o -.7 : Durado: J tv.

Any person who,does that?

15.

'J > .

• I Courtenay: Any person; .

.

• i ii;;-.

Any Person; that the Court can do anything to And lo°k at 2 ' if it |s contrary to this Constitution 2 even if the Legislature passes a law, the Court can declare it to be .. Durado: Sacrosanct.

Courtenay: Sacrosant.


That's the word, Thank you, very much.

I hope we have helped you, Mr. Durado.

Mr. Rogers: I have a question.

Courtenay: You have a question.

Rogers: You toll this Committee that you were worried over the fact that the Prime Minister appoints the Director of Public Prosecution.

You are very worried over that.


Are you worried over the way... the only way the Director of Public Prosecution ... you said that you thought that the Director of Public Prosecution will think that he owes the Prime Minister a faypur.

Are you worried over the way that the Director of Public Prosecution, the only way the Director of a Public Prosecution can be removed from office?

at 84?
at 84?

Durado: But then his misbehaviour will be.. Rogers: I ask you, are you worried about the way he can be removed from office.

In other words, you looked at the way he was appointed but you didn't look at the only way he could be removed from office is for inability to perform his functions or for misbehaviour by the Governor-General.

In other words, the Prime Minister will have nothing to do with his removal.

And, therefore, the question would never arise about owing a favour.
Durado: That's a good point.

Courtenay: Anybody else?

Well thank you, Mr. Durado, for coming forward.

Anybody else wou]d wish to come forward?

Yes, sir, please come.

Lester lamsey, San Antonio Road (Citizen) Courtenay: Uhat lo you have to say to us, Mr. Ramsey?

16 ..r. -.amsey.

..y point on the Jiite Paper in that I noticed certain amount of privileges given to foreigners is too much.

uovernment should ti eat them like they are treated in other countries.
hen the foreigners come here for- work whether agreed or not, theresnould be a compulsory la., that they pay a certain amount of revenue towards income lux instead of cone in, earn, and go.

^specially in the cane and go.

industry.

oOne cone through tin back, some come through the front, but when the farmers said they have to draw a revenue from their salary, some draw machetete and all of that, That is absurd.

We should not tolerate that.


Courtenay: You want us to prevent them from escape in paying tax?

Mr. Ramsey: Second, we should have a compulsory law to preclude merchants or agriculturalist from bringing in foreigners to layed down that any man who violate the laws commits a crime.

Courtenay: So you would like to see some laws to control migration into Belize.

That is your second point.

Hr.


Ramsey: The last point which is one of the most serious, I don't know if the matter has been brought up before, next we have three symbols and life should be proud of thein, the Prayer, the national anthem and the Flag.

Now Gentlemen, I an only speaking on the Flag, one word on the Flag, and the word, in the Flag, I am suggesting not that, that word sub umbra Floreo Should/be moved.
The paragraph 4 on the Anthem "Freedom comes tomorrow's noon, once we get it that word "noon" should be changed.

Courtenay: So you think that those three symbols should in in the constitution?

Mr. Ransey: Yes, because we have to protect our constitution for the future.

Courtenay: Hr.

Ramsey: Is there anything else you would like to suggest?

The law is too sympathetic.

We have too many provileges.

You give too much freedom.

Courtenay: apart from this,.

Mr. Ramsey, do you support the White Paper?


Mr. Ramsey: I support the White Paper 100%.

Courtenay: Mr. Ramsey, we thank you very, very much for coming, We understand you very clearly and your voice has gone down in the records in helping to make this constitution, and wo wish to thank you for coming.

Belisario Carballo Jr. 4th Form, lluffles College Mr. Carballo Jr: I just have some questions that I don't clearly s understand.
Section 4 (b) Protection of the right to personal liberty, ’Everyone has ; the right to liberry and security of person.

Except by due process of law or in cases of public emergencies a person may 17 not be deprived of his personal liberty, 'I would like to know what are examples of public emergencies.
Courtenay: Like a'ribt, like a war, like a pestilence for instances, suppose there is a disease, we might have to say to you that you cannot fo, we take away your liberty to go to Corozal, we night say to you, you nay not go to cholera, if this happens in Corozal, may say to the people of Corozal that they might come out of Corozal because they will infect the rest of the Corozal, and we not country.
Mr. Carballo Jr.: No Section (d) Protection from inhuman treatment - person shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment, Slavery and the salve trade in all their forms shall be prohibited.

', do you think it includes prostitution?


Courtenay: It might include prostitution, not prostitution by itself, but prostitution in which the person, I an suggesting a situation, which it might be inhuman for instance, prostitute might very well be locked up and kept away from their freedom, and be forced to be a prostitute.
Mr. Carballo Jr.: The other one is on citizenship (b) any other person who has been resident continuously in Belize for a period of five years immediately prior to the day of independence, be able to become a citizen of Belize, I think this term should become 'legally in the country for 5 years' because suppose that person has been living here for 5 years, and the five years he spent here, he is locked up in jail, o o a so when he comes out he won't be a good citizen for Belize to have right?
Courtenay: You would like that to read '% years legally in the country without violating our laws, during the period, We make note of your suggestion.

Mr. Carballo Jr.: About the Attorney General, it says 'In the exercise of his functions the Attorney General shall not be subject to the direction or control of any person or authority.'

what does this, exactly, mean?

Courtenay: The Attorney General is the only Minister whose function is professional.
He is different from all other ministers in that he performs for Government a professional service.

He advices the Government, he's the Government's Chief Adviser, and the idea of the provision which is put into that paragraph, the purpose of it is that he should give his advice pure and honestly without the indifferent of anybody.

He gives his legal opinions.

In otherwords it night be hard for political purposes but the person or the politician needs to know p what is the truth lie know.
Nobody should interfere with hin when hs is giving his legal advice, to the Government as Attorney General.

18 - Mr. Carballo Jr.: I think that the National Flag, the national Anthem and the National Prayer should" all be enshrined’ in our Constitution because these things are very important, Apart from that,II think the White Paper was very well prepared.
Courtenay: us and, please tell fourth form that we are We would wish to say thank you very much for coning before very happy that they have studied the White Paper and for Thank you.

them sending you to cone before us.

lion.

Guadalupe Pech, Hr.. Benedicto Reneau (Yo Creek) (0*W. Electorial South Division) Courtenay: You have something to say to us?

0 1 Mr. Reneau: I have a paper that I would like to read.
'We the representatives of the Yo Creek, ban Lazaro, Trinidad, August Pine Ridge San Felipe, San Antonio, and Guinea Grass Village Councils, hereby declare that we met on Thrusday the 19th February 1981 at the house of Hr.

Pablo ^osa of Trinidad Village to discuss the proposed terms of the Constitution for the Independent Belize as set in the Government <hite Paper.

We agreed that Hr.

Benedicto Reneau of August Pine Ridge Village make our recommendations known to the Joint Select Committee.
Before making our recommendations we congratulate and thank the Government of the People's United Party for the White Paper.

Cnee more .it has proven that it is worthy of our support.

Ue pray that God guide and bless our Premier, the honourable George C. Price and his Government as they work to finalize the terms of the Constitution.

We recommend that the Belizean National!

Prayer, the Belizean Flag and the Belizean National Anthem should be enshrined in the Constitution.
As regards our National Anthem we suggest that perhaps the last Line of the second part "for Freedom comes tomorrow's noon" can be substituted with Independence we will have achieved our freedom.

On the matter of citizenship article 12 (b) we suggest that not any other "but any other person of good character".

These are our recommendations.

We thank you for your attention."

Courtenay: Thank you very much, Iir.

Reneau.

We have received your Reneau.


recommendations and those of all villages which yourare representing here today.

First of all we say thanks to all the Villages Councils for having studied the White Paper and have given us the benefits of their views and we hope that you will go back and express our thanks for us.

The records of this proceedings will show our gratitude to the villages in the Orange Walk Electoral South and we thank you, particularly, for coming before us.
19 Edwardo Oliva (On behalf of Villagers, San Jose’Nuevo Palmar) Courtenay: Yes, Mr. Oliva, do you have a presentation to make?

Mr. Oliva: a paper).

I have brought this from the Village Council, (presented Courtenay: 'Having read the Shite Paper outlining the proposed terra of a constitution for the independent Deli ze mindful of its provisions to provide for a < Christian democratic system of .
(Joyernraent, aware of the Preamble proposed to include a guarantee .for our human rights and recognition <Jf the supremacy of God, be it resolved that tpe People of San Jose Nuevo Palmar supports the proposed terras as outline in the White Paper subject to the following amendments: (1) That the Constitution to the independent Belize shall include (a) the Belizean National Prayer; (b) the Belizean National Anthem; (c) the Belizean Flag and (d) a pledge of the loyalty.
(2) The lack of respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence against the people of Belize.

(3) ': That any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship.

(4) That no citizen shall hold the status of citizen of another country.

(5) That the geographical boundries of Belize be clearly and properly defined.
-• - (6) That article 12 (b) under CITIZENSHIP be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years prior to independence, and; (7) That article 43 be amended to include "only Belizean citizens born in Belize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election •• Courtenay; Mr. Oliva, we wish to say thank you to yourself for having come before us and also please go back and express to your village our thanks for their sending us that resolution.
Thank you very much.

lir.

Courtenay: Senator E. Aragon.

You live in Orange Walk Town of course.

And you represent, Senator?

Hr.

Aragon: The V. S. II.

Newspaper.

20 Mr. Courtenay: to make.
>/e would be happy to hear what submissions you have Mr Aragon: The Constitution of Belize states that the people of Belize affirms that the nation of Belize shall be founded upon the- principles which acknowledges the supremacy of God, faith in human rights and fundamental freedoms, the position of the family in a society of free man and free institutions, the dignity of the human person and the equal and inalienable .rights with which' all members of the human family are endorsed by their Creator.
This is commendable and my greatest hope is that, this could be put into practice as quickly as possible.

But before this, I think a correction needs to be done concerning our National Anthem.

The Constitution of Belize affirms that the nation of Belize shall be founded upon the principies, one of which acknowledges the supremacy of God; yet it is a mockery to hear our National Anthem singing praises to Gods.

Which Gods are these?

Mayan Gods?

Pagan Gods?


'0 Lands of the Gods' does not do justice to the supremacy of God.

'0 Lands of the Free' would be much better.

As Belize moves towards the new dawn of Independence, a call for unity is most urgent.

To impose a National Anthem, a National Prayer, a National Flag and any other national symbol on the Belizean people is to do little in the line of uniting the people.

It would be good if a National Symbols Commission, could be set up.
to develop symbols which will unify rather than divide the people.

o li Page.

6 (n) Protection from deprivation of property should be amended to read: No property or any interest therein shall be compulsorily taken from any person without first having a court determine the justice of taking away his property and prescribing the principles and the manner in which compensation is to be determined.
Page 7 (c) should be amended to read: A period of public emergency shall exist when there is in.,force a resolution of ' ■_ legislature declaring that democratic institutions in Belize are threatened by subversion and evidence is offered to support this declaration.

Page 9 (16) should be amended ,to read: The Governor-General shall be appointed after a select committee of the National Assembly has held hearings and approved his nomination.
The same procedure should be used for the appointment of the Permanent Secretaries, Belize Advisory Board, the Chief Justice,.

Judges of the Court of Appeal, Directors of o Public Prosecutions and the Auditor General.

.

Page 16 (#51 & 52) should be amended to read: of eight members o> of the Senate seven should be elected by the people.

The Governor 21 General on the advice of the Premier should appoint one Senator.
Two shall be elected by the people of Belize District and to make the rest one from each of the remaining districts.

I believe that the Senators suppose to represent the people and not parties, you know and .strongly I believe that if Senators are elected by the people they will feel obliged to help, or to do, or to work in interest of the people.
But once elected by party, if feels that they are allegiance to a party and I believe that they should owe allegiance to the people Mr. Courtenay: Do you know of any constitution, Senator, under the nonarchial system where senators are elected?
Mr..x.ragon: Forgive me Senator Ranos, but you know in this constitution I. am trying to think of ideas probably unheard about, the thing is if all of us think about things that will help us, this is we are interested in, it doesn't matter where it cones from, if it comes from a communist country or anywhere else as long as it (interruption) Mr. Rogers: How would you get people elected who don't belong td parties in this country where there is a party system?
Mr. Aragon: For example we have two parties in Orange Walk.

We have the U.D.P.

and the P.U.P.

Well, if the P.U.P.

decides that we are going to put this person to run for Senator ... a matter of fact that the person running does not have to belong to a party .. .

they can run for the interest of the community.

Mr. 'Rogers: And the party nan run too.

An independent can run?

Mr. Aragon: Yes Mr. Rogers: But the Party puts up a nan too or a new party comes up besides the P.U.P.
and the U.D.P., let's say the V.S.M.

decide that they will have a party and they will put up a man.

Who could stop then?

They Who could stop then?

are free to have political associations.

The Party system is deeply embedded in this country.

You want to do away with the Party System?

Mr. Aragon: No.

no, no.

The thing is, what I am trying to say is that no.

I don't hind who the person is, who he is running for, which party he is affiliated with.
The thing is, the people will elect, that's what I am saying that the people elect c Mr. Rogers: A while ago you told us something slightly different that he should not represent party.

22 “r«, .Aragon: No, no, he should not be appointed.

i-ir.

Kogers:, B,ut when he gets .in there then he will represent a party, let us say the Senate.

is comprised of the U.D.P.

The Senate and P.U.P.


win the house or whatever names they have, what happens then, you will have a stpnd off no laws can pass because the two Jouses are elected and they represent different parties.

Hr.

Aragon: ‘‘ell then I think if they are concerned about the country then they will do what is the proper thin;;.

Mr. Rogers: No, no, the people of the United States are concerned about their country.
Sometimes the Congress run by one Party and the Senate run by another Party, but the President has beto power.

.hen the stand off comes then the President ban say- which law can pass and which law can't.

de'11 go on the side of oae.

But if you write a constitution having two elected bodies - a. bi-cameral legislature and don't give somebody veto powers you laws won't pass because all your hopes for coming above the country are just ideals, people don't believe in it.
we will have to find a new way pf how to pass laws if this situation develops and it could develop.

; i Ur.

Aragon: Probably with a little study of this thing something could be done.

Ghat I am saying is that the system that we have at the moment of senators, two Senators and four, now for me.

most of the time it doesn't work.


Well, that's the way I see it, that's ray opinion and I think a new way should be found and I have in mind a view of going over this thing.... Mr. *‘ogcrs: If we reach a deadlock, what should we do to make your system work?

Hr.

Aragon: ’Jell , get together again.

Mr. sogers: Get together again a o o Mr. Courtenay: If there is a deadlock, you don't believe there will be .

a deadlock, but suppose there is one, would you agree that the Prime Minister should have veto?
•: ■o Hr.

aragon: I am sorry I can't answer the question at the moment.

I'll have to think it out very carefully.

I will do d.omething and I will send you a report.

23 (interrupti on) Hr.
aragon: I will be frank with you, aware that we have a White Paper, aware that independence night be tomorrow, ft might be in the future - it must coi.ie at one tine or the other - I have put a great deal of interest in the White Paper because whatever happens, if this bevoraes the law of Belize, it will affect all of us and if we have good laws in our country, it will be' for the benefit of all Belizeans, by interest is for the benefit of Belizeans and I have read1 it and have found it with a few things that I would wish to be amended because- probably I could not find other things so bad that I would have to talk about.
->o those are more or less the points that I sincerely believe should be amended.

hr.

Courtenay: So you support it with your amendments?

Hr.

Aragon: I support it.

lir.

Courtenay: Thank you very much lir.

Senator for coming before us and we will consider all the amendments.

Hr.

Rogers: Domingo Perez lir.

Perez: Good morning Gentlemen hr.

Courtenay: Good raorning, Mr. Perez.

iir.

Perez: Mr. Chairman, ladies and Honourable members of the House and Senate.

Iir.
Iir.

Courtenay: Mr. Perez, you live in Orange Walk?

Mr. Perez: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Courtenay: And you represent .. .

Iir.

Perez: United General Workers Union.

Mr. Courtenay: This is the branch in Orange ialk or for the Nation.

iir.

Perez: The Nation.

*> Mr. Courtenay: lou are in fact the General Secretary, Ur.

Perez we are happy to hear what you have to propose to us.

24 iir, Perez: Thank you Iir.

Chairman.

Before I begin to make my presentations, lir.


Chairman and members of the Commission, I wish it to be recorded here that it has always been the policy of our organization to actively support and work for the independence of Belize.

We have done so in the past and we will continue doing so and it is our ardent desire that Belize becomes an independent nation in the quickest possible time.
Concerning the ..hite Paper issued by the Government of Belize I am very much aware that this document would not necessarily reflect everything in a complicated thing sucli as a Constitution of a Nation.
i recognize it as the guideline that more or less should be followed and we have gone through the White Paper and we totally agree with most of the articles in it, the generalization of it, of freedom and what is not freedom, However there are certain things that we would like to see inserted in this Constitution.

I think this is a golden opportunity we have, it's once in a lifetime that we are going to go through this to see the independence of Belize.

hr.
hr.

Chairman we We have here the Preamble of the Constitution.
’ o are hoping that the preamble should include some historic events such as the formation of the People's movement in the 50's which waC the Beginning of Belizean Revolution should be inserted in the Constitution in the preamble giving credit to certain people and organizations who saw the birth of the Nationalist Movement included among the names we cannot exclude at all the name of our most Honourable Premier who was one of the founding father of our liberation struggle, Also my organization would like it inserted in the Constitution the name of the General Workers Union, who along with the People's United Party were influential in bringing about the birth of the nationalist movement in Belize.
Othernames such as Antonio Soberanis should be included and also, this open for debate, Marcus Canul here in Orange Walk iown should be included.

Ie was one of the people in .the very early days who put up resistance against the colonial power.

Also the principles of the new nation in the Constitution should reflect the policy of non-alignment the nation should have the right to align and have relations with any nation in this globe regardless of ideology or other different things.
Concerning our national symbols we support that the National I'lag should be the falg of the country and the Bmblen - the Coat of Arms, the Sub 0 Umbra Uoreo should be the emblem of the nation and that the capital of the nation should be Belmopan.
oncerning the National Anthem while it seems that the vast majority of the people are in favour of the National anthem lb wc also support the national anthen but honestly we would prefer perhaps a shorter national anthen, a more crisp and march-like anthem, 25 o o an anthen that would reflect more on the liberation struggle of the Belizean people.

why I say this iir.
Chairman, is that if we would look at our history books when we say - arise ye sons of the Daymens clan, if we go back to our history, the Daymen were actually English settlers who were settling in Belize and we are sure that what was actually taking place in 1798 was the fight between two imperialist powers Spain and- England to decide who will be the colonizing power in this land and the British won and our people, our slaves were not reflect that i.iuch, however, as I said we sup >ort the anthem because it seems that what the majority of the people want, but that was just our opinion, Hr.
Chairman.

The new nation of Belize, we want this inserted will recognize, protect and stimulate social and mass organizations such as trade unions, farmers organizations, student organizations, children organizations and other working in the common interest of the majority of Belizeans.
He think the Constitution should reflect this, the nation which means the Government in power will recognize, protect and stimunate all these mass organizations which from an integral part of the development of the country and we want that all citizens have the equal rights and Subjected to equal duties, equal rights, equal duties none above the other and that women have same rights as nen in nen the economic, political and social fields and in the family, and that work is a right, a duty and an honour for every citizen.
i’he family The'State will protect the family, motherhood and matrimony.

The law regulates the formalization, recognition and dissolution of marriage and the rights and obligations deriving from such acts.

They are saying that the state do this.

That they regulate the formalization, recognition and dissolution and the rii'hts and obligations deriving from such acts.

Education - Education should be the function of the state and all institutions to be state-owned and education should be free of charge.
Higher learning in the scientific and technological fields must be actively encouraged.

Sports and .Recreation - The state will guarantee access to sports and recreation and culture.

Access to be guaranteed to all of the nation's natural beauties such as beaches, parks and other historical sites free of charge.

No beach, park or other historical sites to be the property of anyone but the state and that active steps be taken to protect our flora and fauna.
Religion - Whilst the right to devotion must be guaranteed, the State must take steps to regulate the influx of small cults whose main aims most of the time are not to evangelize.

And I bring this, Ur.

Chairman, and also I heard the iion.

Deputy Premier 26 last night and he mentioned this Jin Jones cult.
Now we are concerned about all these cults moving in because especially here in Orange L.alkj churches are being opened or so called churches are being opened almost every week on main street all over the place.

white shirt necktie people walking all over the place, God knows what they are up to.
b'e are saying that the law must require, this is one perhaps in which we can stop this influx and regulate it, that the law should require that all church institutions be led and operated by Belizean pastors strictly.

This may help stop open interference into our lives by foreigners posing as religious people.

I am saying that we want the right to devotion to be enshrined in the Constitution, but wo think that our churches ought to be led by our Belizean pastors.

Hr.
Hr.

»iogers: How do you differentiate between cult and the genuine church.

Oi' is it: that you are saying that a Belizean can lead a cult, I didn't understand you properly.

Iir.
Iir.

Perez: No, I think what the lav/ should regulate is the aims and objectives of these organizations, but all of then will tell, you that their aim is to evanfelize, but then you see, I don't like to use the word hustler, but you see a lot of hustlers around posing as religious people and I think investigation oust be made on the background of these organizations whether they come froi.i Europe or from North America or South merica.

a o u hr.
a o u hr.

Aogers: ■I mean /letermine whether they are cult or genuine Mr. Perez: As I said if we can get some information, I know it is easy we can to get information on these people, their background or where they are coming from.

I think our people have an idea of religion as a most based, home based and solid and permanent institution, but here churches cone and go.
I think we should, I am not saying that the majority of the people should support each and every church or I an not saying that maybe if they do not represent 2% or 3% of the population then they should not permit then to operate and also wo want it in the Constitution that it will be punishable by law for all foreigners who interfere in our political life.

They have no right to interfere in our political life - the foreigners.
This will include foreign corporations who actively finance political parties and campaigns.

It is alright for our nationals even business people to take active part whether being o active means supporting a party or supporting any candidate, but foreign corporations should be punished or banned by law if they interfere in 27 this way.

Also we want it punishable by law for anyone to speak against the country and to be disrespectful to our national symbols.
xhis would give way in eradicating traitors who want to sell the country and also we want it punishable by law for any ogranizations working towards eroding our national sovereignty.

Land and minerals - Access to the best arable land must be given to Belizeans first or to the state.
A limit must be placed on land acqui- sition by foreigners, I am talking about acreage, the size, there must be a limit of how big a foreigner can come in here and this to be on a foreigner can come in here and this to be cone a rental basis only.

They should never own Jelizean land.

The only They should never own Jelizean land.

people who must own Belizean land are the Belizeans.
The foreigners you can work out a lease fifty years thirty years, twenty years whatever it be but they will never claim to say I own land in Belize.

All minerals must be owned and directed by the state along, of course, with foreign expertise in the.

initial stages until Belizeans can do the job and all these sources of wealth must serve the interest of Belizeans first and foremost.
On foreigners- The state will grant pohiticaj asylum to all peoples justly persecuted for political, religious or other beliefs.

Refugees settling in Belize should not be allowed to partake in our political life for a while.

T^eir offspring may do so whenever they reach the age providing they are Belizeans born.

Hr.
Chairman, what I am saying about refugees, that if ten thousand refugees are brought to this country, ■o our country being so small, the voting population being so tiny, these people can have profound effects on all our political life, so whilst we are not inhuman in saying that we should not allow refugees into this country, we are saying that if they are allowed to enter the country then they should not be allowed to partake in the political life for a while only Belizeans, their children if they are born in Belize then they should be allowed to take part in our political life.
i-ir.

Courtenay: Can X ask a question?

Just to understand, you used the words for awhile that they should, participate for awhile, I find that a little bit ambigious it could mean one of two things, it could mean either the individuals should be prevented for a period of tine from having political rights or it may mean that the country until the population grows should prevent refugees from participating in political life perhaps the country for twenty years, ten years.
You understand what I" an trying to say, that there is a difference between saying that you can only acquire political?

rights after yoii have lived for five years or for ten years or we may say no refugees will have.political rights in -the country c» for the next twenty years until our population grows which are two different things.
f Mr, Perez: Yes, well what we are basing on is that we have this fear of being overpowered, such a snail population, such a snail country we are, 28 - so some stipulation, some regulation should be put in the Constitution stating that these people, okay they are human beings, they have human a rights but we reserve the right to protect our country and that a time period, not a very short one, be put before these people can actively participate.

Mr. Rogers:.
Mr. Rogers:.

Then it ought to be in the Citizenship because the refugee status does not permit refugee to vote, he has no voting right' under refugee status but he gets voting rights when he becomes a citizen so that the stipulation should be in the citizenship law.

Mr. Perez: On the state - The State will prohibit all forms of torture and shall .protect all human rights which include freedom to think, speak associate and to live and so on.

It is the duty of each and every on.


Belizean to rise in defence of their homeland and Belizeans myst have a right to the acquisitions of guns for self-defence only and' these guns I mean those permitted by law the usual ones, I am not talking about M-16 or AK 47 or what not, the usual shotguns, pistols and the usual hunting rifles and what not for self-defence.
Finally, Mr. Chairman and Members of this Commission, the new Belizean state should be based on the principles of equality and justice and shall prohibit the exploitation of man by man, and in the not too distant future steps must be taken to bring about our political sustem e at par with our central American neighbours that is the Republican form of Government.

Mr. Chairman and Members of this Commission, there are my humble submissions and I thank you very much for your kind audience.
Mr. Kamos: Mr. Perez, I am not clear on that point there, this matter of equal rights, well I follow you mean that we should all be under the law equal duties but then you .... Mr. Perez: No, 1 am No, I saying that equal rights equal duties that if, let us see if I can find an example ... Mr. Ramos: Are you thinking of conscription?

fir.

Perez: Yes, conscription too because we have to defend this homeland, we have to rise in defence of the homeland.
Also equal rights and equal duties it happens in many countries,.

Mr. Ramos: I’ll tell you what I was leading up to, I was saying suppose you can’t find a person who is doing any duty at all then he has no rights,, is that what you are saying.

CT o Mr. Perez: nation the homeland should provide full employment for the entire nation.

No, I said work is the duty of everybody and I think the --29 - Mr. Marin: What do you mean when you sat 'at par' - at par with our.

Central American.
Central American.

Mr. Perez: What I was referring to is to bring it about the sane political system that they havej not the dictatorship form not the military form.

.

.

Mr. Marin: Oh, I wanted that- clear.

Mr. Perez: No, I said the:form of Republican Government because El Salvador should have a Republican form of Government but they have a dictatorship at the moment, Guatemala and all that, All of them are.

built just like our neighbour Mexico, right, a republic form of government.
Mr. Marin: I have one more point here.

Then you said dissolution of marriage, speaking on the family, you said dissolution•of marriage should be by the state.

Mr. Perez: In other words, let me make rayself quite clear, if you want a divorce you go to the law.
What I am saying that the legal one should be the civil one that is the recognized one by the state' and the Church one well itSfc everybody wishes, if you don't want to go to any church to get married the legal one is the civil one you go before the J.P. or the judge.

Mr. Mari-n: Two marriages then.

Mr. Perez: Well, ya, you can have two, two celebrations too.

Mr. Hunter I wanted to ask the question?

What about none-nationals in trade union movements.
Mr. Perez: Alright, depends what you terra non-national.

A naturalized.

Belizean is a Belizean.

Non-born as long as he has citizenship then I think.

As the Deputy Premier said, once you become a Belizean citizen you have that right, even the refugees.

, Mr. Courtenay': One thing I wanted to put to you.

In one of your last statements you were worring about the exploitation of man by man.
We have a phrase in our preamble and we have it in Section E and Section n E is particularly unique in the sense that it attempts to set out national policies and there's a phrase that deals with exploitation, perhaps if we just pass half way down there in which we say Belizeans require policies of state which prohibit the exploitation of man by man or by the state which is a significant addition and I wondered whether you would support the way this terminology is in the preamble.
e way •n: 30 Mr. Perez: As I said, yes, we support it.

Mr. Rogers: At times, Mr. Domingo Perez, you sounded like Jesus and last time you sounded like Mr. Reagan.

The right to defence and.

then you tell us about having guns.

It is not clear to me whether you wanted that to: be'.inpa lawful defence, in a body, in a uniformed body or you wanted people to keep guns,.

I didn't get that.

: .

o Mr. Perez: 1 don’t see no reason why they shouldn't keep guns.

Mr. Kogers: You want people to have guns.

.


J i»• ‘ ‘ Mr. Perez: So they'll be more ready to defend their homeland.

,.

Mr. Rogers: That's where you sound liRe Reagan.

Mr. Courtenay: Mr. Domingo Perez thank you very much.
We would like to thank your union as well for its thorough submission on the White Paper and we would like to thank you for the.time you took to come and support us here and for your recommendations and we would be particularly grateful if you could type out a copy of your notes, that would be of assistance in getting our records out quickly.

Thank you very much, Mr. Perez.

Mr, Perez: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


Mr. Leopold Uaight , Orange Walk Town (citizen) Mr. Courtenayi Mr. Haight, we are happy to hear what recommendations you have.

Mr. Haight: Mr. Chairman, I want to start off by saying that I support the White Paper.

You find that in the Protection of the Law, Protection from inhuman treatment, Protection from .forced labour, Protection from anything.
What I failed to see .and maybe something is going to be embodied in some law, but I think that somewhere it should: be written in the Constitution for too long now much too long we have been dependent, and since this is the year of independence, we must Start thinking in these lines and Mr. Perez mentioned something about arms etc.
we are too dependent on outside forces, we must depend on ourselves if we are to be fully independent and whereas this may cost Government a handsora amount of money, but I think that the tine has now cotie that we must defend ourselves.
Why I am asking that something should be written in the' Constitution about conscription, military conscription and this can be done in two forms either voluntarily or you1 conscript :then and this would hold, as I see it, no strain oh burden on Government or the individual because it can be done as it is done in some of our Central American republics whereby instead of taking them on full-time t' .
a:, do wcekc :' and it .->0 CT o - 31 they can go and do duties weekends and it would cost the State very little.

The thing is we must be prepared if we are to be a state in our own right we must be able to defend ourselves and we can’t wait when we have an attack by any nation to go and by calling on J.amaicja or Honduras or Salvador or Guatemala to come and help and defend us.?
We should have our "own people trained that when the occasion arises we arc ready and I say that every person at the age of eighteen should be forced to take part in military life.

tyir.

Courtenay: And that is very clearly stated.

I don’t think that anybody has any questions.

We are grateful to you for expressing your point of view and we are certainly going to take it into account in our report and we wish to thank you for coming forward.

Basilio Novelo, San Lazaro - Citizen .


.1 i : ‘ ‘ Mr; Novelo: First of all I would like to congratulate Government on this White Paper which I support, however, there are some amendments which I would like to see especially,in No.
43 - Qualifications for Membership of the National Assembly - A person shall be qualified to be elected a Member of the House of Representatives or to be appointed to the Senate if' he is a Belizean citizen, eighteen years old or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year so that is the phrase which I would like to be amended, it says here this person should live in Belize for at least one year’prior to nomination for election.
This is to me isn’t too good because to me it gives the impression that Belizeans who are living in a foreign country for.a period of years lets say twenty years and just because he hears about nomination day so then he comes a year so before that and he would have a right to run as a candidate now who right to run now a knows what this person nay have in his mind, so I feel that is too short < I think this should be substituted for five years.

Mr. Courtenay: You would prefer five years.


Mr. Novelo At least five years, and my reason Mr. Cdurtenay: We have your reason very very clear.

You made yourself vory clear.

Is there any other problem that you see in the White Paper.

Mr. Novelo: Now this, I don’t see it here, but maybe it’s here but I don’t see it.

I do agree t,h.a,t, in a democratic country" there should a be an Opposition and to me our Opposition are wreckers they are not me our constructive people.
I would like to see an Opposition who are constructive.

Of course whatever Government is doing wrong well they are the ones who will stop it, but our Opposition is not that, they are just o L I 32 to soil and I think people who slander personalities should be dealt with accordingly.

We have people who like to say’the Premier or whoever it, they like to slander - personal slandering.

I think this should be stopped and I think someone has mentioned traitors who like - ■ ■ • .

i ’ ■.
i ’ ■.

to sell their country again these people are supposed to be dealt with accordingly.

Mr. Courtenay: ?

: A law of treason, aha.■ Would you include respect for the symbols in that.

Mr. Novelo: Of course.

Mr. Courtenay Anything else, Mr. Novelo?

Mr. Novelo: i; Well, when it comes to Education, well it's known or it's taken for granted that it's oblig-atory for a child to go to school but from my observation that this is not really enforced.
Children go and come out of school whenever they feel like.

I think this should be enforced now.

We also know that children shouldn't be working by working I mean to sustain a family, and we have parents who take their children to work in their cane fields, they take out their children to go and work for them and I think this should be stopped.

K child of up to fourteen.


When it comes to Village Councils I feel that they don't have any power or authority to deal with their community and that is why most of the people take i advantage of the Village Council.

I think more power to be given to them.

Well before I finish, membership has just come to my mind.
I don?t know how effective this would be, but the way I see it, our present system is a democratic system but I would suggest people who would like to candidates suppose to have a sound educational background, of course there are exceptions because we have some people who are diligent o o o a 33 Mr. Courtenay: With common sense.

Mr. Novelo": But we have most of our kind here people just because they can blah, blah they say he is good.
Yes there should be a set qualifications for people who would like to be candidates.

Well let's say the minimum a person who has a trained teachers diploma.

Mr. Courtenay: And if they are not teachers, I suppose you would say a secondary education.

Well, Mr. Novelo, thanks very much for coming forward and it's very good to have somebody from San Lazaro.

We are very pleased to have you.


Mr. Blanco: Pues mi presencia aqui con ustedes hermanos es para decirles a Ustedes que you respecto y apoyo lo contenido del Papel Blanco y yo estoy muy de acuerdo tambien para la bandera que es el simbolo de nuestra amada patria y el himno nacional.
Estoy muy contento y muy agradecido de oir y ver tedo lo que han prosentado para nosotros ye le doy gracias a mi Senor y a todos en la administracion del gabinete y soy muy contento de oir y saber y ver bien que nosotros vamos a tener lo que realmente merecemos como Belicenos.

Mr. Courtenay: Thank you very much for coming before us.

o o Mr. Blanco: Que Bios le bendiga.

Mr. Courtenay This committee hearing will be adjourned until two o'clock this afternoon.

Thank you very much for coming forward.


Rogers; Members of the Public the Joint Select Committee is about to meet in the afternoon session.

I only have to repeat to what the □ - 34 - Chairman said this morning that these hearings are to determine the- views of citizens on the White Paper and that the Committee derives its form and authority from the resolution passed by the House and Benate.

authorising this Committee to meet and to hold these hearings.
The Afternoon session is therefore called to oyder and it is now in order for Mr. ^oque "Reyes of Tried.

Farm to appear before the Committee.

.

Rogers : Reyes; Rogers; Good afternoon.

May I have your address please?

Trial Farm, Orange Walk District.

Trial Farm, and you appear as?

• ' Reyes: As a citizen.

Rogers ; As u citizen.

Please tell us in your pym words Mr. Reyes what you would like to tell us about the White Paper.
Reyes; Really, as I read -the White Paper several times and I liked it, because of the privilege I have to -coiiie and give my opinion about what I have read because at least we have chance,to -- our Government is not one sided.

T-f; wants' tHe opinion of everybody so that they can get a well done constitution to present for the protection of our future in the Country.

But I see some little things here that I have question marks on it you know that I would like to have some clarification, certain terms.
For instance in Page 8 Citizenship No.

11 On the day of the independence of Belize, every person bom in Belize shall become a citizen of Belize.

So shall every person bom outside Belize whose parent becomes a citizen on independence day or would have so become but for death., Nov/ this, last sentence "or would have so become or for death".
I am not so really clear on this because if you have parents who have become a itizen on C Independence Day there must be sone kind of assurance if they want to become a Citizen.

We are talking here not of those born in Belize but of the outside people, of the foreigners so how can we determine whether these persons who have died, will want to become a citizen.

Rogers; What would you like to propose?


Reyes; Well, I think it would be more clearer that only those that arc, whose parents becomes a citizen on Independence Day here.

And in which he is.. Rogers; Your proposal then is to delete the last part, "Would have so become a- Citizen on Indepenoe Day'.'

Please proceed.
Please proceed.

Reyes; On Page 14, on the same page 8, Any person who is a Belizean citizen or citizenship by any voluntary act (other than marriage) by which ho becomes entitled to Belizean citizenship shall forfeit such acquires a citizenship other than Belizean.

Now I officially believe • ■ that many times people from Belize got an Immigration otatus to.

go to the States they got a Green Card.- o c o Q Rogerss That is permanent Residence.
- 55 - Reyes: Right, which I think they have any allegiance to that country, as a itizen, an I correct?

Rogers: Well not really, you are mixing up two things.

With a Green Well not really, you are nixing up two things.

Card you arc a permanent resident under U.S. Immigration Law, not a Citizen Reyes: Right, so it doesn't really goes with Green Card, Good.

I just wanted to make that clear.

Rogers: But for people who become Citizens, Reyes: Yes, you have to play little games.

Now on Page 9.
Now on Page 9.

If you notice now I am the first 7 pages that I went through personally I am quite satisfied with th., bad way it implements the freedom of Belizeans, and tho protection but on this page that I will contino on now, I am looking more forward on the you know for instance the present Government right now I am quite satisfied with this Government which is the P.U.P.

right.

Fully.

Confidence of the Government power right now.


But I am thinking in the future of our country in other words and let's say five years from now you don't have an election again.

And we want to have a Constitution that way, we'll not only tie when we go to an election especially whoever its involved cannot do what they want.
In Pago 9, now where it marks the Executive,Cabinet; the cabinet shall be the principal instrument of policy with general direction and control of tho "overnnent of Belize and shall be collectively responsible to the National Assembly for all things done by or under the authority of any Ministry in the execution of his office.

It shall consist of the Primo Minister and such number of Ministers as nay be appointed by tho p ovemor- General.

Now right down there the line 20 Right?


The Governor-General on the advice of the Prime Minister shall appoint Ministers responsible for any business of Government including responsibility for any department of government from among members of the House of Representatives or the Senate, now I can put down here that I truly believe that right now the owns the P.U.P.

in power there is a clause somewhere they are going to benefit this going to effect on Independence you know....all who arc in power.
.....Well I know that in the future those who are duly elected by tho people, should have the privilege of actually having appointments or putting in positions as Ministries, to a direction of the country.

Nov/ I am saying this because I don't think on appointment to ms is better than elected position.

An elected position is because of the Representation of people.
And then you have a privilege because you are elected the, as I say in the future I think we should be very clear in this that, to me, that if you are appointed by the Government to do sone specific work there suppose to be some kind of a restriction or control either this or that to me that if you arc appointed by the Government to do some specific work o <=> o a L - 56 - a there suppose to be sone kind of a restriction or control either this or that particular person.

Rogers?
Rogers?

Well the restriction and control hero, is that they arc responsible to the National Assembly collectively, to the National Assembly that is the way this document was written, './hat have you to change?

Reyes: I an thinking really of Ministers for instance, in the future you have a clause that is going to have expanded, more Minister because the 2,000 to 5,000 you .know,- that constitute a Constituency.
Reyes: More representatives yes, yes, I believe for instance, if the Premier should die, I mean this idea, if he should die, we suppose to be in a position that the country flow continues on, with the Constitution without really feeling the loss of a nan.

I know we will feel it in the sense of Leadership right.
But we suppose to have somebody as representative Rogers: For what it says here-, the Governor-General that he will then, do certain things, Yes, Page 26; Whenever the Prine Minister is unable to perform his functions by reason of illness or absences from Belize, the Governor-General may authorize any other Minister to perform the functions of the Prine Minister.
That's what the Governor-General has to do... what wo have a party system for, and the party would have to select a nan to advice the Governor-General who commands the support of the majority in.

the house, it has to be from the House- of Representative.
And it must be someone, the whole basis of this system hero is the person must have the leadership, he must be able to have the following in the House, that is the way a Prine Minister is selected first instance and if you have to replace him for death, for sickness or absence it is the same principle that goes with it.

Reyes: '-fell, I was just thinking in the sense to put j- Black and White by reason of illness.

Rogers: To put it in Black and V/hitc?

All right.


a a Courtenay: Mr. Reyes, can I ask you a question, because I want to be clear about this, is your concern only for the Prime Minister or for other Ministers instead, I get the impression, tell me if I an wrong that you would prefer seeing your Ministers all coning from the House of Representatives.

Reyes: That's right.

On the same Page 11.

Page 10 Now No.


21. he 'J-1 Attorney General shall be the principal legal advisor to the Government of Belize and shall also be responsible for the administration of legal affairs in the country.

Legal proceedings, for or against the State shall be taken in the case of civil proceedings, in the nano of the Attorney General and o in the case of criminal proceedings, in the none of the Crown.
In the exercise of his functions the Attorney General shall not be subject to the direction or control of any person or authority.

o - 37 - Reyes: This ran a question nark to my mind right.
What makes you think this man has nobody really has the sole authority, but its that the word functions, if it means on the function of his job,'I believe, otherwise ho is just like anybody else, The courts should be able to deal with him if he breaks the law like anybody else, I just wont to make sure.. • Now Page 10 No.

24 it says.

Sie Prine Minister shh.ll al so vacate his office if ho is informed by the Governor-General.
th".t he is about to re—appoint him as Prime Minister or to appoint another person ns Prine Minister, or if for any other reason the ^rinc Minister ceasos to be a " member of the House of Representatives.

Nov: the question How can ho cease to be a member of die House of Representative, how can he cease that?

Courtenay ?

scat vacant.

He con commit an offence in which the House can declare his There arc several ways in which a man con lose membership of the House.
Reyes; Will the last code of conduct would be or is that a separate thing.

Courtenay?

That's a separate thing but a serious violation of the code of conduct could neon that you could lose your seat...and that could be- detemind by the House, in its ovm affairs.

i ° Reyes: Yes, Page 12 No.

JJ There shall be in and for Belize Advisory Council which shall consist of a minimum of six members appointed by the Governor-General cn the advice of the Prine Minister.
Bach member shall be appointed for a period not exceeding ton years.

The Governor-General shall bo the .chainaan of the Council and in his absence the most senior member present shall preside.

Clarification - in his absence the most senior member, what do you mean by seniority here?

Courtenay; I have to be a member long in the Council itself.

Reyes: But right now this doesn't exist, you don't have on Advisory Council, you don't have right?

Courtenay: No.
Courtenay: No.

Reyes: T^gt's exactly why not more then 10 years, You might appoint one ■ for one year two for two years.

9 Reyes: Oh, on a rotation period.

Courtenay: Yes!

There's a continuous Advisory Council, it will continuate.

Reyes: It isn't there in the Paper.

Courtenay: I accept it, so you propose that people- will continue to be changing of their rotation.

I would recommend that it would be put somewhere for clarification Reye s: there.

Reyes; Page 13 No.
Reyes; Page 13 No.

Hie Governor General's powers right, he sho.ll act - J8 - in his own deliberate judgement in the appointments of Prine Minister and Leader of the Opposition and the revocation of such appointment.

Now, in his own deliberate judgements now, this individual can.
revoke such appointments, it is quite on what determination I mean what guidelines would a nan revoke this position Rogers; Well let's take this first appointment, the Governor-General is a mouth-piece although it says he makes the appointment he represents the Queen, and he has to take into account just what I told you a while ago.

'A10 nan who commands the support of the majority.


Similarly if he is of the Leader of the Opposition, it is the person either nan or woman who commands the Leader to follow him of the minority party into the Legislature.

He would have to be nan who is out of his nind, to go and name somebody else to do his work and he would never do so.
So in writing the Constitution, lots of other places have the sane provision, he shall act in his own deliberate judgement, because he has called the ruling party, if there leader had lost the election he has to call then and tell than'who command the support of this group.'
Let us say you had an election and the Leader of the party had lost the election he would ' have to call the group and ask thorn who command the Leadership, or this who...... And when he names that person, if the person can't form a Government he name somebody else again, similarly with the minority party.

He would nemo all those people, now if they have a disagreement among themselves as a group and they say, yes.
You name the Leader but we agreed with you for six points but wo are now noving within the party...

It is the ovcrnor-General who will revoke the nominations here made.- And all this provides those exercises are in 'the contigencies that we just listed a while ago.
Reyes; Nov/ in page 14 Qualifications for Membership of the National Nov; in page 14 Assembly A person shall be qualified to be elected a member of the House of Representatives or to bo appointed to the Senate if he is a Belizean citizen, eighteen years old or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election.
Now, in other words, first of all it says if he is a Belizean Citizen, now this word Belizean Citizen as we know there will be many people who will become Citizens because of this Constitution as it say that it is within 5 years prior to the Independence, I am thinking right now, we don't have much to do in Belize comparing to other countries around here or Nation­ wise, and wo will get a lot of foreign people coning into the country and I think many people have been here maybe more than 5 years, so this will affect a lot of people who can become citizens on Independence, right?
Now I am trying to think that wc shoull have some control clause in these people, outside people, or being qualified'for being an elected na.iber of tile House of Representative.

In other words I an not against then being citizens of this country, by no means, but I think there should suppose to be a span of more years in other words like 5 years after becoming a Citizen, e o •$) o C - 39 - That they con qualify in other words to be elected a member of the House of Representatives.
Rogers: I would like to put forward that a proposal on Citizenship itself.

■ ft Let's turn to Page’8 then No.

12.

That's where your proposal would come under (b), you saying that a period of 10 years should be there is that what you said?

Reyes: I was thinking that first this person would be living 5 years previously prior to it end then 5 years after, Before he had been qualified to be an’elected member of the House of Representative, In the same Page 14 No.
44 a person shall be disqualified from election as a member of the House of Representatives or appointment to the Senate if he owes allegiance to a foreign power or state, is an undischarged bankrupt, is certified insane, is under a sentence of death, or is serving a sentence of imprisonment exceeding twelve months.

I believe its personally exceeding twelve months because if somebody is serving a sentence of imprisonment.
I don't think he should bo qualified to represent our country, I don't like this exceeding twelve months, if you serve a sentence of one month he still can qualify.

Rogers ; Your proposal is then to take out exceeding twelve months, stop at imprisonment.

Yes Sir, Now may I ask why, was this exceedin' twelve months put Reyes: there.

Rogers: You gave me a proposal, and 'that will bo considered.

Reyes; O.K.

| o Rogers; If we never take- it then well Reyes: Yes,yes.

On Page 15.
On Page 15.

A Member of the National Assembly shall also vacate his scat if he is absent from tho sittings of the House or Senate for such periods end in such circumstances as may bo prescribed by the Standing Orders; Nov; I am not quite clear what prescribed by Standing Orders, what is the Standing Orders?

Is that of the House?

Rogers s Internal.

Reyes; Internal O.K.

Pago 16 No.

52.


If there is no opposition party represented in the House of Representatives, or if two or more opposition parties are equally represented, the two Senators may be appointed by the Governor-General on the advice of a person selected by him, in his discretion, for the purpose of tendering such advice.

Now my recommendation is that really if you have two opposition parties which would be the minority of the force.
I think that the leaders of those opposition parties should have really tho opportunity to appoint the Senators, if they can't agree, I think the Government would have to decide that.

> Nov; I have a question on Page 17 No.

16.


Ho civil or criminal proceedings nay be instituted against any member of cither House for words spoken before, written in a report to, the House of which he is a member or a committee or thereof or a Joint Committee cf both Houses, or for any matter brought by him in the form of a petition,bill, resolution, notion or otherwise, I just wont a clarification in this, it says no civil or criminal proceedings may be instituted against this member.
n 9 O o - 40 - Rogers: Meaning that in the House, while he is doing business for the House, the word spoken in the House or report and so on....straightforward after there.

I believe you want to know why.

Why no civil proceedings nay be taken against it, in other words he can't do .any wrong, if he is doing the business of the House and using his right to speak there, and so they can't take hin to court for that.

For exonpie if they did it out here on a public meeting, they could take hin to court.
He couldn't make this report because he must preserve his right to speak as a Representative of the People.

That must be free all the tine, in the House, this is to keep hin from being afraid to speak in the House.

Reyes: Yes, In Page 18 No.

66.


■*■£ a money Bill passed by the House of Representative and sent to the Senate is not passed by the Senate without amendment within one month after it is sent to the House, the Bill shall be presented to the Governor-General for assent, notwithstanding that the Senate has not commented.

The Speaker shall endorse with his certificate every money Bill when it is passed by the National Assembly.

Nov/ No.
Nov/ No.

67 A Bill passed by the House of Representatives for two successive sessions, and having been sent to the Senate second time by the Senate, be presented to the Governor-General for assent, notwithstanding that the Senate has not consented to the Bill, Why send it to the Senate, in the first instance, why send something to a body whereby whether they accept or not it should be passed, That is where more or loss I am wrong in the meaning there.

Rogers : No.

66 and No.


67, is saying about two different Bills, one is a money Bill that would cost the taxpayers money, the other one it spells out the procedure there, the other one is an ordinary Bill, that doesn't pass or involve any money.

As I said so the procedure, in the case of the money Bill the Senate has held in......and this thing is urgent providing a way it is out of the Senate and to have the Bill passed so that light can go on to the people.
But if it is for political reason or for sone other reason that we wouldn't be able to anticipate there, they hold it up.

The second one is a piece of land, and they want to be stubborn, obstinate and they say that two times it goes up and everytime it goes up.

They do nothing about it or they continue to reject it and so you have one housing one bill another housing another bill; in that case nil they do they take it back and they send it to ths .Governor-General for his agreement.

Reyes: Page 25.
Reyes: Page 25.

The Auditor General isn't he the Head of a Department?

If you look back to appointments to (88) it says Power to appoint persons to hold office in the Public Services,'to exercise disciplinary control over person in the Services, and to remove such person from office, shall best in the Public Services Comission shall be the offices followings Secretary of the Cabinet, Permanent Secretary, the head of Departments of o Government.
If the Auditor General then comes under the Head of Departments of Government.

Am I correct?

1 o Rogers: No sir, he is a Head of Department that is not dealt with like - 41 - all other ones.

That is specially...,.....’.

Reyes: Specially.

Thank you very much.

Rogers: And he dea,lts with specially because he reports to the House, after the Executive he reports to the House, he deals with the Accounts, his peoples Representative what has happened, that's his function.
He tell Ho is an Accountant and he audits the books.

Reyes: Pago 26 (98) The “uditor General shall be removed from office only for inability to perform his functions or for misbehaviour by the Governor- General; the word misbehaviour, what do you mean by misbehaviour, here it means a lot of things.
Rogers s How you mean a lot of things, here we are talking about misbehaviour that would bring his office into disrepute, he holds a very high office and if he be guilty of serious misconduct and in fact if he is removed by the Governor-General after the Advisory Committee has tried he really gets a trial, to see whether ho is guilty of serious offence, Tor instance in the Accounts, he finds something and he hides it, that's serious.
Rcyos: Yes, Looking right now at the country right now there it seems to be some kind of restriction on control of Civil Servants, you go to the Police Department you go to the Hospital and I notice there is a mini-rate pays a way that people there, they are to servo the people, ^hey feel like they are bosses in those places.

I mean this what I observe that in all cases, but in many cases.
So is it because of the present system that nothing can be done directly, in other words when we get Independence, in 4 0 this direction maybe we could deal with it.

Because I see a cause where we could deal with these people directly.

Rogers: No probl'ta, Civil Service is in the Hands of the Government.

They are responsible to the Government, he sits in all various in Belmopan he doesn’t know what's happening among the people, how they behaving.

That's the first one.

But the respect is for him.


The second paragraph is that the existing machinery does not take account of the political situation.

So this new system, the loyalty is one place no longer to the Governor, end secondly disciplinary control is in the hands of the Government.

Reyes: I an very glad about that part.

Well that's all.

Rogers: Thank you very nuch Mr. Reyes.

Mr. Bernard Melhado Corozal Road, No.


55 Miles 64V2 (Citizen) A Please give us ths benefit of your view Mr. Melhado, on the White Rogers: Paper?
Melhado: I wish to state here and compare that it roads here in regards of this Constitution of this White Paper, that in (a) affirm that the Nation of Belize shall be founded upon principles which acknowledge the supremacy of God, faith in'human rights and fundamental freedoms, the position of the family in a society of free men and free institution, the dignity of the human person on the equal and inalienaolo rights with which all members of the human family are endowed by their Creator, * Rogers; - 41'-" Mr. Melhado, let me interrupt you, we get back either to the Paper or we continue your evidence before the committee.
or This committee has to- stick to the terms of reference and I can't allow this meeting to get out of order, We have taken your views on the points which you have given us, but the incidents occurring in 1972 and so on although we sympathize with you we can't take them as part of the records of this committee.

So if there is nothing further on the White Paper.

Mr. Melhado, I respectfully ask you to withdraw.

Melhado; Thank you.

.


Rogers: Theodosio Reid and Arselia Leiva (On behalf of La Inmaculada Credit Union) Leiva: On behalf of the officers of the La Inmaculada Credit Union we consider these proposed terms for a constitution for an Independent Belize to be well planned as it has taken into account respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms.
However we would like to make the following comments or recommendations: Page (4) (c) Protection of law - know bail is granted, but foreigners should we be granted bail.

(e) protection from forced labour - prisoners life too easy - a programme should be set out whereby they would be giving some service to the community which they have offended instead, of being a burden to the community.
(g) immunity against expulsion from Belize (A distinction should be made between Belizeans and foreigners) (h) restriction to protect against secret cults (l) to include morality and health (m) enforced and watched closely (police brutality) (43) To be a bom Belizean.

Courtenay: Are you members of the Executive Credit Union, the whole Office?'

Leiva: Theodosio Keid and Arselia Leiva Secretary.

Rogers: Well, I would like to thank you on behalf of this committee to 1 c 13 come before it.
ROgers: Mr. Estevan Itza Mr. Alfonso Briceno Mr. Roque Cowo Mr. Alejandro Rodriquez (From San Pablo) Itza; Nosotros no venimos a dar ventaja, solo venimos haber leido el Papel Blanco.

Estamos satisfechos y estamos de acuerdo y lo soporto.

Rogers; Si,£algo mas?

Itza: No, solo eso.

<o Briceno; Yo quiesiera saber sobre del Gobernador General, a que se refierc.

Rogers s Es articulo 16.


Marins Va a ver un Beliceno nimbrado despues de consultaction con el irimer Ministro por Gobernador General de ®elice que sera un ciedadano el 1rimer la Reina, y el Gobernador General sera ropresentante de la Reina y - 44 - tendra oficio mientras hace lo queiB’ la Reina, cuando esta oficina sea vacante, deja de funcionar por aiguna manera seas ausencia o alguna otra razon nombrara otra persons para oumplir un, esa funciones.
(1) Protection of trade and profession - uste esta protegido.

Estos principios van a surgir leyes el brodigo del trabajo y haya van a estar las profesiones delineados.

Los dctalles van ha estar en el brodigo del trabajo.

O.K.

Briceno; Buen09 Gracias.

Isidro Coyoc - Chairman.

Village Council Guadalupe Coyoc Trial Farm Coyoc; We have studied the lJhite Paper carefully and I really support.

Having read the White Paper outling the proposed terms for a constitution for the Independent Belize.
Mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic system of Government.

Aware of the preamble proposed to incihde a guarantee for our human ri^its and recognition of the supremacy of God.
Be it resolved that the people of Trial Farm Village supports the proposed terms as outlined in the White Paper subject to the following amendments; (1) That the Constitution for the Independent Belize shall include; (a) The Belizean National Prayer (b) The Belizean National ^nthem - Land of the Gods (c) The Belizean Flag - the coat of Arms of Belize in a White circle with a Blue Rectangular background.
(d) A pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America, which shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize.

2.

That lack of respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence any country other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship.

That no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another That any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces against the people of Belize.

3. of 4. country.

5. defined.


6. living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in any That the geographical boundries of Belize be clearly and properly That article 12 b under CITIZENSHIP be amended to include only persons obscure business or have Belizean children five year prior to Independence, 7.
Belize That article 45 be amended to include only - "Belizean ^citizen born in eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election."

Isidro Coyoc CHAIRMAN TRIAL FARM VILLAGE e Rogers: O.K.

Thank you very much Mr. Coyoc Coyoc : Thanks.

* - 45 - Mr. Esteban Baiza #5 Market St. Orange Walk Town (Citizen ) Rogers: Please tell the committee- what you would, like to tell us about tho White Paper?
Baiza: Well, I just support the Whitd Paper.

Rogers: Mr. Baiza,.

would you like to see anything else included.?

Baiza: Not as far as I see.

Rogers: ./ell, Mr. B/iiza I want to thank you for coming before us.

Well, Mr. B/iiza Er.

Dorick Wright i'f8 Bakers St.-Orange Walk Town (Citizen ) Rogers: Wright; Could-we have your views on tho White Paper?

.
.

I have some interesting small points and I would like to see it spelled out a little more clearly, your present system of Education that we have Church State.

I see talks about freedoms of Religious Education and so on but I'd like to see- it spoiled out more clearly.

And my final point would be this.


The People talks about the Supremacy of God then wo have a National Prayer that begins with Almighty and Eternal God but then when we come to our National Anthem we hear Land of ‘the %ds, we are a Christian Nation and we believe in one Go^# 1 an wondering how can that e be changed or if it can be changed.

Rogers: It is nothing to do with Supremacy.

Ara I right it is a small "g" Certainly we'll take note of that.
Thank you for coming before this committee, Other than that you support the White Paper?

'.■/right: Certainly, Thank you.

Rogers: A number of people to appear now, 1, 2, 5, 4/5 and they are: Mr. Rogelio Cocom, Mr. Ered Peters, Mr. -mtonio Huraos, Arthur NGal, ■Edwards Meigjian, Windell Herera, Owen Pascascio, Walter Blowers, Victor Castillo, Ramon Leal, Paul MGighan, Manuel Estrada and Walter Williams.

Who is the spokesman of the group?

Everybody can't talk.

What's your name sir?


Mr. Rogelio Cocom; Mr. Rogelio %com, please tell us your views about the White Paper.

Cocom: What time you closing up.

Rogers: Today.we'll close a little later when we finish with everybody, but you could always write us a note in Belmopan, to the Secretary, Mr. Monsanto, and that will last a long tine yet.

You could write next Thank you gentlemen for coming; we know you have to get back to your week.

work.

Rogers : Orange Walk ^own.


You appear as a Citizen-.

Please toll us what you want The'next on the list is Mr. Edwardo Leiva, 14 Muffles Street, totcll us about the White Paper.

a L 9 0 © <1 - 46 - Leiva; After reading the White Paper, we represent the Workers of the Town Board.

We strongly support the White Paper, on behalf of the the Workers of the Orange Wiafc Town Board.

Rogers: Mr. Leiva, I am glad that on behalf of those workers you appear and support the terms in the White Paper.
Please convey the thanks of this committee.

Next name on this list is Mr. Richard Crane.

Your address, Mr. Crane?

Crane; One and a half miles, Guinea Grass Road.

Rogers: Mr. Crane, you appear as a Citizen, I presume; Crane; Yes sir.

Rogers: Nov; Mr. Crance, the White Paper before us, how do you feel about it.

Crane: Well, I'll have to.

read, Rogers; You haven't read it?

Crane; No sir.

Rogers; Please give Mr. Crane a copy Mr. Crane you can appear before us another time or write to us.
Rogers: Next person on the list is Mr. Amando Villanueva.

Villanueva: Native of Orange Walk.

I live on -#14 Otro Benque.

Rogers: Jlnd you appear as a Citizen.

Villanueva; I do Sir, Rogers; Please tell us how you feel about the White Paper?

Villanueva; I have read it over and over, and I think it is excellent.

Rogers; Anything else you'd like to add.

Villanueva; One thing I'd like to add, I see there arc many foreigners who enter this country illegally, chopping cane.
I'd only suggest that those people in Belize should do the work so that the money remain in the country.

An those young fellows in Belize City should do the necessary work in the sugar industry.

Rogers: Mr. Viiianueva> WQ take your point very seriously.

Villanueva; Thank you very much Sir.

Rogers; This Committee wculd like to thank you on boha.lf of this Committee.

I thank you.

■ ; Rogers; Next name is Mr. Sylvano Mendez Mendez; Good afternoon, Mr. Minister.

Rogers; Where do you live Mr. Mendez?


Mendez; #14 St. Peter Street.

Rogers: And you appear as a citizen?

Tell us about the White Paper.

Mendez; I support it a hundred percent.

One thing I'd like to add.

1.

When Belize declares its independence the National Flag, National Anthem should be respected.

There sire foreigners-who come to wreck our Maya ruins.

e b (* © - 47 Rogers: his Committee thank you.

ihe next none is Mr. Clifton Young, your address Mr. Young?
Young: Richmond Hill c/o Agriculture Department.

Rogers: You appear as a Citizen Mr. Young?

What do you wish to tell us about the White Paper?

Young: What I'd like to say, is concerning security, I'd want to see that included in the Constitution.

Rogers: We’ve noted your statement on Security, Mr. Young, Is there anything else you wish to say?

Young: No.

Rogers: I thank you for your statement.

Next!

Mr. Windell Lomott: Come in Mr. Lemott.

Where do you live Sir?

Lemott: I live at Richmond Hill.


Rogers: Lemott: You appear as a Citizen Mr. Lenott?

Yes, I have something I'd like to say, on Belize Advisory Council, if those-advisory council could investigate.irregularities in administrative level of the Public Service and other Government levels and.

also on the appropriate spending of government funds.

I notice that nothing has been mentioned concerning the' security of Belize and control of influx of the inmigrants.

Hunter: Mr. Lemott, who would reconcile the.


work of the Auditor General and the Advisory Council.

You mention that the Advisory Council doesn't have power to control accounts.

How would you reconcile that?

Lemott: The Auditor General?

Not only accounts, all spending in general.

Rogers : ■Any other question?

Lenott: No.

Rogers : Thank you Mr. Lemott for coming before the Committee.

Next name I have is Mr. Bernardino Pech.

Your address Mr. Pech?

Rech: Yo Creek.


Rogers: You appear as a private Citizen?

Pech: Yes Rogers: Mr. Pech would you toll us how you feol about the I/hite Paper?

Pech: On a whole I think the White Paper.is very solid it caters for basic rights of citizens and for good government.
A just government I'd like to see however in’the Constitution, the Coat of Arms, the National Anthem, National Prayer and that new citizens of our country should accept these as basic conditions of citizenship, ^hese should be a pledge of allegiance.

All schools should promote patriotism on which the students should become conversant with our symbol as part of their civic education.

In the e • 'Land of the God'.


The verse which says "Arise ye sons of the Baymen Clan' for all citizen.to feel included - whose origin is notof our country, refugees who night be accepted as citizens.nay not feel that this phrase applies to them, so maybe, "Rise up ye sons of our motherland, instead of Baynen's elan, that all citizens would concur with the words.
And also on citizenship so 12 (b) "Any other person who has been resident continuously in Belize for a - 48 period of five years immediately prior to the- day of independence".

H ere it says that he is entitled to be registered as a citizen of Belize.
I'd like to see included, "provided such a person is not a fugitive from the law of his own country, is not an undiserable alien, who nay be posing as a spy, a fifth columnist, after investigation on his background he has mother to prevent him being a respectable and useful Belizean citizen.

That the candidate for citizenship should get letters of recommendation to vouch for his character before being accepted as a citizen.

Rogers: Any questions members of the Committee?


This Committee wish to thank you, Mr. Pech for taking off the time to come' before us.

5 Rogers: Next name on the list is that of Margarite Vega.

Could we have your address?

Vega: San Estevan Village.

I appear as representative of all farmers and citizens of San Estevan Village.
First of all, on behalf of my people, I'd like you to know that we strongly support Government's White Paper, with certain qualified additional amendments from tho Orange Walk Cane Farmers Association Branch.

Personally I'd like to refer on the section on security and welfare of the Belizean people I'd like to be added to the White Paper, concerning firearms, that no foreigners should have the privilege, of a licence to carry firearms nor should he pi?

she have the privilege to register a shot-gun.


Why I speak of -this is because through my experience, I have noticed - take for example in my area, San Estevan there 'are about fifty foreigners, and usually when one goes through the *>) village to Progreso or Orange Walk Town, one finds foreigners with shot­ guns, which in other countries this would not be allowed.

That's why I an very worried about this thing, because if any insurrection would start we would have them in the midst.
Nov: the other point where citizenship is concerned, I think that a person to become a citizen of Belize, a ceremony should take place whereby this person should pledge allegiance and loyalty to Belize and that our constitutional flag should be placed at his right hand over his heart and lifting his left hand, because I strongly believe it very psycological, you know Rogers: Placing the right hand on the heart.

Vega: Yes!

the left hand towards our flag pledging allegiance.
Why I believe it's very psychological you know, through experience of people from abroad, I have a sister-in-law in America and she says it's sad to say, she pledge allegiance to the American flag but she said it is easy to accept a citizenship by paper, because just giving a paper with a stamp - a government stamp,, where you are recognized as a citizen of America or Belize, out where a it comes to pledging allegiance and loyalty to that flag, many people take Back at that very instant, many people say, I won't do it.
That's all I'd like to pass on.

Rogers!

The Committee would like to thank you Mr. Vegas for coming before it.

- 49 - Rogers: The next list of four names is representing La Inmaculada Upper School.

They are: Ramon Cervantes, Tc-rencio Chan, Francisco Gonzales, Omario Baiza.

Welcome before the Committee, we have your names, whoever be the spoksman, would you begin to tell us your views about the White Paper.

There are two raore Hanuelita Marchard and Fermina Torres - Carmelita Avila.
Chan: Having read the White Paper on the- Constitution for an Independent Belize, and being • aware of our guarantee of our Human Rights, acknowledging the supremacy of God, we the teachers of La Inmacaluda Upper School, Orange Walk Town, have resolved to support the proposals of the White Paper, subject to the following proposals:.
(1) That the Constitution for an Independent Belize includes the Belizean National Prayer, the Belizean National Anthem and the Belizean Flag, We believe that those symbols merit a rightful place in the Constitution of an independent Belize, because they have for man?/ years these have been the symbols around which our people- have rallied for our just right for a free and independent Belize.

(2) That respect and dignity for our National symbols be taught in -all our primary schools in the country.
The National symbols of government embodies the sacred desires of a people to be free and independent, therefore the Schools owe the people the responsiblity to teach respect to them.

(*• (j)That article 12 (b) under citizenshi_ be amended so as to avoid granting citizenship to those aliens of questionable and undesirable background.
Although we o.pplaud the humanitarian gesture of government in wishing to grant full citizenship to all foreigners living in Belize 5 years prior to the date of independence, we would like to urge government to institute a process through which those aliens with questionable, un­ desirable background be screened out.

This should be done to continue preserving the peace and tranquility to which Belizean confide in.
(4)That Article 43 be amended to read-: Only Belizean Citizen bom in Belize eighteen years or over and has lived in Belize at least one year immediately before the date of nomination for election.

Wo propose these amendment so as to avoid the unhappy occurrence of foreigners with undesirable objective towards our country, being able to contest the future Belizean election, moreover wo believe that only truly Belizean - born citizens should contest the future of Belize in its ^Lection.
Rogers: Very good, anything else?

Chan: Yes, Well after the ....just at the last moment or the eleventh hour, I would just like to have a little clarification on this point on part 4 section 4 (c) The protection of the law, all person shall be equal before the lav/ and arc entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection, and that brings me then to (t) Protection from inhuman treat­ ment, whether this will include protection against Police Brutality.
L - 50 - Rogers: I will answer the last one first, it just, in addition there will be a Board to deal with Police Brutality and 'this docs inolude Police Brutality.

Now I vail ask our Lawyer Minister hero to talk to you on (c); the clarification.

Courtenay: The basic proposition there is that the law should apply ;to people equally respectively of their race, colour, creed or anything, and the objective is that the law should be available to all citizens equally.
There are many who contend that the lav; is available only to those who can afford it and this is the provisions here, to make force or administrational Government to deal with that problem so that the law becomes available to any person with equality on the basic of the requirement.
And I would, perhaps give you an illustration of this by looking at the ways those rights are going to be enforced, for instance in paragraph 5, you notice that every citizen, whoever he or she maybe who feels that his or her human rights or freedom has been affected can go straight to the Supreme Court, right up to the Supreme Court and the Supremo Court have absolute authority, there’s only one limitation to place upon this - power of the Supreme Court and that is appropriateness, it must restore your freedom, it must restore your rights in an appropriate fashion thats the only limitation otherwise the courts hands are completely free to correct any violation of your human rights for fundamental freedom.
Chan: I have this on Section 4 (g) Protection of Freedom of Movement and coning to the last where it says immunity against expulsion from Bglize.

This should be "immunity against expulsion from Belize to Belizeans born only.

it Rogers: Any other comments?

Chan: About -this Number 16.

There shall be a G,ovcrnor-Gcneral of Belize who shall be a citizen of Belize (interruption) Rogers: Any other comments?

We would like to thank all of you teachers for coming here and giving us your time.
Thank you on behalf of the Committee.

Rogers: There are Guillermo Coba, Secondino Taraai andJavier Correa.

There And you arc from the Dougla.s Village Council?
Coba: First of all, we thank the Ministers and apart from the Village » Council of Douglas, we are meeting all our Ministers together right and we have consulted the White Paper, which is something that is very important and I as the Chairman of Douglas have consulted the people, our party people, and we have seen that really the White Paper is very interesting and all that is contained in the White Paper is really something very important to all the people.
First of all Ministers, I as the Chairman of Douglas, again thank you, you consulted it all about the amendment that wo have and we are trying to sec if it is possible to let it be amended in the New Constitution because really all these seven, you could sec it here, the seven amendements is very O 0 - 51 - important for us as how we arc "becoming an' Independent Belize.
We will really put in all our efforts to see about this and we have consulted our people of Douglas and as you- can see wo have all the signatures of all the people who are supporters of it.

.

Rogers: Thank you very much, we will be putting all this into the records and it will be fully considered by -the committee, and I want to thank you all on behalf of the committee.

Rogers: Good afternoon.

Miss Magana: Buenas tardes.

Rogers: May we haVe your name and whore you live?

Maganas.Main Street, No.

41.


Rogers s And you represent the family?

Maganas Just my mother, my aunt and myself, and the only thing I want you to know is that we support the White Paper.

Rogers: Anything else you want to tell us?

Magana: No, solamcntc venimos a decirlc por mi parte que estamos so.tisfechas con el Papel Blanco qua lo agradccemos much que se presentan ustedes aqui.

que nos den esta oportunidad para estar aqui con ustedes y apoyai siempre.
Rogers: Muchas Gracias, En el nombre del Committee quiero dar milchas gracias.

Rogers: Welcome ^r.

Gabino Novelo.

iY su dircccion?

Novelo:o 20 Lovers Lane, as a ^itizen.

Rogers: i,Y qus quieres dicer?

Novelo: P.U.P.

Pues yo no mas quioro decirle quo you soporto el Papel Blanco dol Rogers: gAlgo mas?
Novelo: Si quiero decir si tambien no esta en la ley quo nosotros, cuando la independencia que se ponga firmo primero, porque viene unos ciudadanos del extranjero que vienen; unos Salvadoreanos, que viencn solo a escarbar montanas.

Rogers: Senor.

Bueno por ego quiero darles gracias de parte de la Comite.

Gracias Rogers: And where do you live Mr. Melendez?

Melendez: Orange Walk J-own, Otro Benque.

Edwardo Melendez * Rogers: Please, Mr. Melendez^ what are your views on the White Paper?
Melendezs I would like to say that I come here to talk in the name of our future Union which is to be fomed between the B.S.I.

and the Sugar Industry.

Rogerss So you represent that future Union?

- 52 - Melendez: Y, es, in the name of them.

Our workers are in protest and Rogers: But you are representing the • e» rs Mel endez: M • "arm: Future Union.

What's the name of the Union, nay I ask.

Melendez: Belize Workers Union.


Well we support the Constitution, the White Paper but due to the present crisis that is aggressive within the working force hero, there is a slight proposal ;/hich we would like to Rogers: Please give us your proposal.

Melendez: This proposal has already been given to the Committee by one of my friends.

Rogers: You sent it in writing?

Melendez: Yes, the proposal I would like to give is this.

There is a crisis in this Industry.


You find out now that we need somebody to represent us so that the Government will be able to know about most of the recent activities as they occur, as a result we wo :ld like to propose that a delegate is elected or appointed by the Government so that .

Rogers: You want them to be included in the Constitution?
Melendez: Yes, elected by the worker or appointed by the Government of Belize, who is a member of the National Trade Union Congress of Belize, who will give the most recent reports as well as suggestions, proposals, resolutions taken by the workers which will be brought to the attention of Government immediately, especially during times of dispute.

That is my proposal.

Rogers: Thank you very much.

Rogers: David Fech.

Where do you live Mr. Pech?

Pech: San Francisco Street.


Rogers: David, you represent a group or citizen?

Pech: Citizen.

Rogers: Please tell us how you feel about the White Paper?

Pech: It is nothing about the white paper.

It is something I would like to add It says in a certain section there that a person who lives in Belize over five years should become a citizen.
What I would like to What add on that is that before a person becomes a citizen he should really serve its country to a certain extent, and that even the Belizean that are born here over the age of eighteen years and below forty years which it should be.

Rogers: Anything else you would like to say?

Pech: That is all I havo come to say.

Rogers: Thank you very much, this Committee thanks you because we will certainly consider this proposal.

Thank you very much.

c « 9 Rogers: Your name please?


- y> - Garcia: William Garcia, 9 George Street, Orange Walk Town.

■ Rogers : Please tell us how you feel about 'the White Paper.

Garcia: I support the White Paper.

'Rogers: Mr. Garcia thank you very much for coming before us.

Rogers: Your name Sir?

Shaw ■ ■Oavid Shaw.

Rogers: And youraddress Mr. Shaw?

Shaw: House No.

22 Orange Walk Town.

Rogers: And you appear as a Citizen?

And what do you want to tell us about the White Paper?
Shaw s Well Sir, I agree, I want .... Rogers: You agree to Independence?

Shaw: Yes sir.

Rogers : You want to see anything else added in the White ^aper?

Shaw; No Sir.

Rogers s Mr. Ghaw> thank you very much for coming before us.

Meeting adjourned at 4.25 p.m< o 9 * « Appendix G-l Having read the white paper outlinihg the proposed terms for a constitution for the independent Belize.

Mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic sysrem of government.
Aware of the preamble proposed to include a guarantee for our human '?.glitr: and recognition of the supremacy of God.
Be it Resolved that the people of San Pablo Village supports the proposed terms ns outlined in the white paper subject to the following amendments• 1,) That the Constitution for the independent Belize shall include a) the Belizean Rational Prayer t>) the Belizean National Anthem - Land of the Gods c) the Belizean Flag - the coat of Arms of Belize in a White Circle with a Blue rectangular background d) a pie”ge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America, which shall be recited daily in all schools throughout Belize 2 that lack of respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence against the people of Belize that any citizen of Belize who servos as a member of the armed forces of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizenship that no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another country that the geographical boundaries of Belize be clearly and properly d .
'fined that article 12 b under CITIZENSHIP be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in Indepcndenco.

.

1 that article 45 be amended to include only - "Belizean citizens born in_Bclize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election".
Raraon Chan Alfonso Briceno Gudelia Briceno Geocadio Briceno Quasraa Briceno Luciana Briceno Bernal Lopez Jacinta Mai Nicoforo Trejo Adolfo.

Trejo Carlos Wagner Adelaida Cabrera .
'Oonicio Pott Natividad Mai Feliciana Ulz Pilar Mendez Inesto Mendez Jorge Mendez ELeuterio Mendez Elvira Mendez Angel Ccrano Teresita de Jesus Coreno Ferraina Veltran Sizto Veltran Borita Veltran Lupita Veltran Mario Veltran Felicita Veltran Ismael Masanero Rosawra Masanero Rosendo Rodrigues Andrella Briceno Alejandro Rodrigues Olga Rodrigues Avilio Gera Estela Gera Maxiniliano Casmo Escolastica Cosme Snctario Cosme Petronila Rivera Rodolfo Hernandez Odilia Hernandez Augustina Yaraa Teoduli Yama Andrea Cob Francisea Cowo Israel Cowo Reyes Cowo (j) Reyes Cowo (c) Valdemar Cowo Candilaria Novelo Francisca Pott Andros Yaraa Victoria Yana Estevojn Itzab Alejandra Hzab ELpidia Hzab ELicia Hzab Ortencio Hzab Florentino Hzab Ronan Hzab Elcutcrio Mendez Juanita Mendez ELeudorio Mendez Rosalie Mendez Rcmijio Mendez Hatolicio Mendez Elsa Mendez Manuel Yana Lupita Yana Alfredo Co.brera Torecita Cabrera Balerio Cabrera Irene Cabrera Rita Cabrera Bidelna Cabrera Juan Carillo Fuljencia Carrillo Celina Carrillo Casinira Mendez Adolfa Cosrae Ronaldo Rodrigues AurorS Rodrigues Gilberto Jose Novclo Conscpcion Novelo Pablo Rivera Urbano Yana Sabino Yataa Mawro Yaraa Maria Concepcion Yama Hilaria Ccb Jacinta Cob o 0 o L Appendix 3-2 « I RECOuEJD THAT A SUSPECT OR Ail ACCUSED THAT PCS BE.® WITHHELD IN CUSTODY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE HIS TRIAL THAT, THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME BE SUBTRACTED FROM HIS ..LiNTENCE IF FOUND GUILTY .AID IF THE ACCUSED BE HELD IN CUSTODY FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO ’IIS TRIAL Affi AT HIS TRIAL HE'S
 NOT CONVICTED AS CHARGED OR HAS BEEN FOUND INMOC ’T, TILVT HE BE COMPENSATED FOR HIS TIME THAT THE LAN HAS RETARDED HIS PROGRESS IN PUBLIC LIFE.
Signed (E. L. SMITH) B.S.I.

0 n o O Appendix G-5 Having re,ad the white paper outlining the proposed terms for a constitution for the- independent Belize.

Mindful of its provisions to provide for a Christian democratic system of government.

Aware of the preamble proposed to include a guarantee for our human rights and recognition of the supremacy of God.
Be it Resolved that the people of Douglas Village supports the proposed terms as outlined in the white paper subject to the following amendments: 1) That the Constitution for the independent Belize shall include a) b) c) d) the Belizean National Prayer the Belizean National Anthem - Land of the Gods the Belizean Blag - the coat of arms of Belize in a White circle with a blue rectangular background a pledge of loyalty, similar to that of the United States of America, which shall be recited daily in all schools through­ out Belize 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7) that lack of respect for our national symbols shall constitute an offence against the people of Belize that any citizen of Belize who serves as a member of the armed forces of any country, other than Belize, shall lose his citizen­ ship tjjat no citizen of Belize shall hold the status of citizen of another country that the geographical boundries of Belize be clearly and properly defined that article 12 b under CITIZENSHIP be amended to include only persons living in Belize legally for five years who have not been involved in any obscure business or have Belizean children five years prior to Independence.
that article 43 be amended to include only - "Belizean citizens born in Belize eighteen years or older and has lived in Belize for at least one year immediately before the date of his nomination for election."
/sgd/ Party Chairman o /sgd/ Village Council Chairman 0 I !• I Secundino Tanai Guillermo Cobu Anselno Hcdg Samuel Moh Martha Meh Javier Moh Onar Moh Lucrccia Carrillo P. Carrillo Filonc Moh Ricardo Correa Emerita Ccrrc-u Felipe Correa Lucio Correa Jr. Lucio Correa Sr. Felipe Correa Malakias Correa Tiraoteo Correa Ima Correa Fidencia Correa Alex Andcr Whitz Gertrude White Roland White Alexondrina White Raymond White Josephine White Yvonne White- Leticia White Nimbrod White Abraham White Delvorine White Carlo.
White Mohamed White Nicesio Cob" Moria.

Elena Ceba Ana Teresa Coba Janita Mendez Verne Tuyub Eusebia Tuyub Adolfo Mendez Apolinar Correa Camel ita Correa Cruz Albc-rta Correa Marciana Cruz Victor Cruz Hernan Cruz Correa Osboldo Valdemar Correa Javier Correa Femin Alanilla Antonio Alanilla.

Marcos Zarata Ronaldo Zarate.
Ernilda Tanai Sevc-ro Toledano Gregorio R. Tanai Elma Tanai ELc-na Coba Rafaela Cota Raquel Cota Raul Coba Goya Cardonas Rodolfo Cardenas Martha Cardenas Cloofas Cardenas Vilrm Cardenas Analia Cardenas Nehenias Cesar Cardenas Margarita Cardenas Eliseo Alanilla Jr. Dalila T. Alanilla Julia Alanilla Lupita J-loi.iilla ELicio Alanilla Doninga Tanai Julio Alanilla Artonio Alanilla Rene Tanai Alejandro Tanai Sevcro Cardenas Feliciano Cardenas Adolia Cardenas Eulalia Cardenas Valentino.
Cardenas Isc.bol Card.mas Feliciana Cable Ceoeria Pott Jose Mendez Celia Sapata Candelaria Gonzalez Sapata Bartolonc Tzib Abelinc Tuyub Pastora Tuyub Armando Correa Maria Coba Eneida Coba ELutcrio Cota.

Francisco Coba Esther Gutierrez Gu 3tavo C rd.

nas Aurelia Cardonas Gloria Chanck Tcodora Mendez Toodoro Mendez Gaudencio Mendez Nicolas Mendez Jose Mendez Luis Arcurio Martina Arcurio Fausto recurio Nesario Mendez Hilbcrto Coba Arcenia Coba * O L