Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697722168912.pdf (Canada)
HOUSE OF COMMONS The Speaker o'clock.

Tuuc!ay, April 28, 1888 the Chair at three took ACCESSORIES AND ABETTORS On a motion of SiI' John A. Macdonald.

the Bill respecting accessories to and abettors of criminal offences was read a third time and passed.
THE ESTIMATES A message was brought down from His Excellency, the swns required for the public service for the year ending 30th June, 1869. transmitting estimates of The following are the estimates for the year ending June 30th, 1869, laId on the table to-day: Civil Government ....•..•....... $ Adm1n1stration of Justice .....•.. PenItentiaries •....••••••..•.•••• I.eg1slatlon •......••.••....•..... Sc1entl1lc lnstltu tlons ...........• Arts, AJI'iculture, and StaUstics .. Immlgration and Quarantine ....• Militia and Gun-Boats .
Pensions ..•.....•.••............ New MlllUa Pensions .....•...••• Railways (all of them being In Ma- ritime ProVinces> and Intercolon- ial Survey ................•... ..................•...... 602,700 176,600 245,733 299,148 9,750 7,000 38,805 1,041,807 1,452 17,225 1,850,000 223,000 Canala Parliament and Departmental BuUdings ..•.•.........••..... Rideau Hall ...............•..... Public Buildings Generally .

Harbour Piers and Light-houses .. Other Public Works ......•......
Ocean and Steam River Service .. Light-houses and Coast service .. Marine Hospitals ...........•.•..

FisherIes •...................•.. Culling Tlm'ber ...•......•...... RaIlway and Steamboat Inspection Expenses Seignorial Commission .. .

....•.•.... Indian annuIties, etc.

.

Miscellaneous including Unforseen Expenses, etc.

.
.

...•.•• Expenses connected with Confederation and Imperial Legislation thereon .....•...... 100,000 107,000 25,000 120,000 140,500 129,600 204,622 37,000 36,800 75,000 11,550 6,000 8,400 100,000 93,912 $10,059,057 items ot Collection 01 Revenue Customs •.

Commutat.Jon and Remission Duties on Imports for the use of Army and Navy .............•••..•.

Inland Revenue .

Post Office ....................•.

Public Works.

Ontario and Quebec Public Works, Nova Scotia .


Public Works, New Brunswick ...• Conection of Minor Revenues .... 488,261 75,000 158,550 751,000 329,695 240,000 215,000 12,000 Total $ 7,901,855 The detalled estlmatea are just laid on the table.
ExpendIture authorized by SpecIal Acts The following are the princIpal Public Debt:- IN' LONDOlt Interest on Public Debt, OntarIo and Quebec ..•.......•••..••• Nova ScoUa ........•••..••..... New BrunswIck .........•....... Intere9t on Current Account ....• 3,132,607 284,910 303,629 25,000 IN' CAlfADA Debt Montreal Public Debt Do.

on Savings Bank In New Brunswick, Intere9t on Public Debt ...•.••... Interest on Dominion Stock ...••.
Interest on floating debt Bank of ......•..........••.• In Nova Scotia, interest on Public ...............•..•....•• .

Interest on ....••.••••••.••.• Do.

Savings' Bank ..•.......•... Charges of Managem.ent, Commis sion to Financial Agents .•.••.• Do.

on Investment for Sinking Fund Advertising, telegrams, postage, and .

Cost of Provincial Notes .


Allowance to Bank of Montreal on average of notes withdrawn from circulation •.••••....••..•..••• BtU stamps 219,250 126,000 105,000 88,800 23,000 11,768 43,000 37,211 2,477 3,675 5,000 156,541 Percentage on Provincial Notes Circulated .......•............ 50,000 211,312 Bank of Montreal for inf.tlat~ Provincial Notes ......•.....•.

1,250 COMMONS DEBATES AprU 28, 1868 missioners Salaries of Provincial Note Com- .

Savings Bank, Nova Scotia •...... Savings Banks, N.B.
Commission to .

Savings Bank Agents .

Premium on Exchange Sinking Fund .

Redemption of Public Debt-bal- ance of Guaranteed Loan, London 2,400 2,240 1,000 40,000 247,713 683,767 Debentures to be redeemed in Canada .

874,600 To redeem mutilated Notes, Nova Scotia ...

It • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Civil Government salaries-His Ex cellency the Governor-General 60,000 , B.N.A.
Act The other 48,666 items aresalar1es of' judges, indemnity to members, geological surveys, pensions, ocean postal ilub8idY~ compensation to seigneurs $186,786, an~ seignorial indemni ty to townships $45,402, and subsidies to Provinces.

Hon.

Mr. RCMe.
Mr. RCMe.

in mavin, that the House ·resolve itsel1 into Committee of Supply said that in making his promised .financial ltate ment as the most cOl)ve~ient way of present ing the information- which he proposed to put the House .in .possession of, be would state in the first p1ace the probable resultaf the operations' of' the' current year, ending 30th June, 1868: "He' wowd next 8~te the posjtion of .the ftoatini debt and .chari~ iIi :it 'since December last, when he made' his previous financial statement.
He wo~ld then say a few words of explanation of the actual position of the variousProvincea towards the Dominion; he would next state the, requirements tor the year 1868 and 1869, ,and the means by which the Governmentl?rqllos~d to meet tllese re quirements.In the .last place he would refer to the anticipated addit~ons in future years to the burdens.

of the country, andthe means by which they proposed to meet these additional burdens.
In December last he stated that the probable exPenditure tor· the' year 1867-68, would be $16,226,OQ~f'which $1,92lS.000 leavin, as the an was on capital account, the year ticipated ordinary expenditure of $14,301,300.

The laid estimates before the House showed an estimated expen diture ot $17,22lS,019 to which had to be $71,000 added -making a instead of $16,226,00() as.

estimated in December.

There was in reality however no change ot any consequence.
There bad to 'be deducted as not properly belonging to service of the year $814,327 arrears paid on account of the estimates, total.

of $17,336,019, supplementary in detail these late Province of Canada, and $205,100 expen diture, which would not take place before 1st July next, and which would be struck out from the estimates before they went through Committee.
Deducting sums would reduce the gross expenditure of thU year to $16,316,562 instead of $16,200,000 as estimated in December ~ From this estimated total ex penditure of $16,316,562 falls to be deducted, for capital and redemption, $1,863,498, also arrears of the late Province of Canada still dependent on vote of the House.

He meant the first to charitable institutions, and the sums payable to the townships on account of the Seignorial indemnity fund.
These deduc tions left $14,321,380 as the ordinary expendi ture of the year 1867-1868.

Coming to the anticipated revenue, judging trom the experi ence of the nine months which we now had, the anticipations to be indulged he believe4, in in December would be tully realized, and that there' would be a fair and moderate excess beyond the surplus be then.

stated.

The gross receipts from customs to ~lst December were $5,318,063: Judililg from the receipt.
of January, February and March, the total cus toms receipts for the current year he estimat ed at $9;000,000.

Receipts from excise he estimated at $2,970,000, and those kom mis cellaneous sources belonging to receipts of the year $2,725,lSOO, making a· total revenue of $14,695,500, a surplus over estimated.expend!.,.

ture on 30th June nex·t of.


$374,140; ot the total expenditure for which a vote was asked $17,326,000, there had been expended tool5th April $9,542,000, leavin, to· be expended .be tween this· and 30th June $7~784,000.

He did not, however, believe the expenditure would be so much.

There had been purposely an over-estimate, the' stringent ,because under provisions of the audit Act, it was impossible the Government could by any means spend more than ParlIament had actually appro priated.
The floating debt,: he stated, in De cember to be $6,911,901, including the amount then in course of rem:ittance to the.

financial agents in England to meet the January inter est.

There were included, $100,000 to Court of Chancery, which had been deposited at that time anda balance on subsidy account to the various Provinces of $146,759, making a floating debt in December of $7,158,676; deducting bank balances 01 $3,303,869, in De cember of .$3,8M,e07.
The balance due the English agents had not been reduced to $510,503.

There was due the Bank of Mon treal $2,500,000 and to the various Provinces there waS a floating debt two items not April 28.

1888 COMMONS DEBATES 571 feeling existed to some degree in the coun $591,667.

Total ftoating debt on the 15th of try that.


the Government was taking posses April $3,602,299; deduct bank balances, $1.- 893,523, and there was left a net floating debt sian of too large an amount of money, which of $1,708,776, instead of $3,854,807 as in De- was needed for the commerce of the country.

cember lut.

The amount due the Engllah This was not the case.


He could assure the ftscal agents had been reduced by sale of House the Government would watch anxiows Nova Scotia bonds to the extent of $1,002,153; ly and vi~Uy the e1fect which any of their and the ftoating debt had allo been reduced operations-would have in withdrawing from the banking institutioDa and commercial in by sale of Dominion stock to' the.

extent of $1,600,000.


He congratulated the Houae· and terests of the country that capital which W81 country that there had been such a sensible needed to carry on their operations.

There diminution of the floating debt, and hoped had been very little withdrawn as yet.

Very little of before six montha were over the GovernmeJilt the money invested in Dominion stock could be looked upon as so withdrawn, would be under no obligations to the bankJ or the fiscal agents.
The way in which the and the small savings deposited insavingl Dominion stock had been taken up by the banka would have lain idle and unproductive country exhibited very gratifying features.

if not so invested.

The inlurance deposits There were 61 tenders under par, and 145 at would not be withdrawn from the commercial and above par.

The most gratifying feature deposits of the country---on the contrary, the connected with the diatributlon of the stock greater portion of them would come from abroad.
He now came to explain the ftscal was, that it was not taken up by speculators the relations' between the Dominion and the varl and· capitalists, .

but was diffused over 0U8 Provinces.

The debt of Nova Scotia on 1st whole country in small sums held by trustees and executors, charitable instltu.tions and by July last.

was $7,435,285, being $564,715 lea individuals who thus inve8~d their' small than the debt of eight millions with which it savings.
'It had thua the effect of giving the was entitled to enter the Union-but beyond .

public at large an interest in' the permanency this it was found, that its obligations amount and stability of the institution of the country.
ed to a very considerable sum in excess of & reprded the balance of the sum which .the eightmillioDa, being no less than $1,292, .had gone in diminution of the' ftoating debt, 545, malting the total present .debt of that that raised by the sale of securities of the Province $9,292,545.

Under the' terma of the Domlnion or ot Nova.


Scotia bonds, sold BJ Union Act the Dominion became responsible ·fOr all the engaaements of the Provinces, no such, it was gratlfylna to know that this first financial operation of the Dominion had been matter 'whether the very successful- With regard to the portion of amount of debt with which- they entered the the floating debt which still existed, he an- Union.

T.o meet the engag8{llents of Nova it would .very' soon.
be 'dis- Scotia the' Dominion had raised·caSh·or other ·ticipated that from thevarioua wise ·provided.a sum of $3,019,628 since the charged by the receipts services which he had indicated in December, from that which could be realized gradually and with- Province in the s~ time were $1,159,288, out disturbance to the commerclal interests .showing excess of payments over receipts of of the country.

'Some progress had been.made .$661,933.

(Hear, hear).
(Hear, hear).

He mentioned thiI not in the negotiations with the Great Western with any secUogal object, but merely as a -Railway for realizing the considerable indeb-matter ot account.

The debt of New Brun tednesa ot that corporation.

There had been, swi.ck at the time of the Union was $5,923,422, to make its with a siinilar view, both legislative and leaving a balance of $1,076,578, executive action on the indebtedness of the quota of seven mllllon.s of debt with which it Bank of Upper Canada.
There was a measure was entitled to enter the now before the House which would put estimated excess of its engagements beyond in possession of considerable .the seven millions which had to.

be provided Government sums and deposits from insurance companies.

'tor by the Dominion was $792,719.

It follows.

A considerable sum would be realized by therefo~,that the amount altogether which .the Dominion had.

to finance for to make good the post office savings banks.
The Govern- ment had so far confined themselves to estab- the obligation of that Province, was $2,788, lishlng the post office sa~p banks, and unW 859, which had to be met in cash or at short .dates, and w.. now in course· of payment.

they had some practical experience of these, deferred establishing the proposed Govern- The receipu, frQm New Brunswick in the same time were $780,868.

which was the cash ment savings banks.

He was informed that.

a fint of JUl7 last.


Thereceiptt they exceeded or not the Union, but 576 COMMONS DEBATES April a8.

1868 it for the aceount the on - capital from the high character of public works, railways and other operatioIa on hand at the time of the Union, made a the swn of $2,456,000.

With total of $1,036,216 showing an excess of pay- now going on, reference to the amount of the Department.

ment on behalf of the the Province over receipts of $357,730.
<Hear, hear,) The Do- for which they there was a portion of minion had thus to provide -the means of would- not be called on to make provision, as meeting obligations on the part of these two it would Pe met by the sinkina fund.

It Provinces to the amount of $5,148,486.

With amounted to $683,767.


The remainder, $874, regard to Ontario and Quebec, it' was diftlcult 500, would be met by seven per cent bonds, and these two items for many reasons to state their precise posi- found the $1,500,000 tion in regard to the debt, because the matter required -for redemption.
It was further es was now a subject of arbitration; and he had timated_ that there would be an expenditure no doubt Intercolonial arbitrators that they would make a just and Railroad on the principle he had just men fair award.

He paid a high compliment to the tioned.

The.


total work, he estimated, would Treasurers of all the Provinces for the man- extend over a period of four years, and the ner in which they had acted in harmony with six montha' operation of 1868-69 would be, on these two accounts, $968,666.

This amount of the Finance Department for the adjustment of accounts.

He then went on to refer to the course had to-be raiRdby loans.
With reprd estimates for the ftscal Year 1868-'69, which to the rate of interest, he thought the HOWIe had just been laid before the House.'

In would feel it to be a liberal one.


There was dealing with these estimates, itwu indiBpen- little doubt -but with the Imperial i\181'8.ntee sably necessary; to distinguish between ordi-they would be able to raise part of the money nary and extraordinary expenditure; He had at four per cent, and with- the addition of calculated everythini which could by any their own auarantee the balance might be possibility be included- in ordinary expendi-raised at five per cent.
The estimates he had just ture, but beyond this there were works of a submitted, could not undoubtedly be permanent character classed 8S larie.

He was by no means dis iomg on in varioUs the Dominion, payment for which posed to underrate the public burdens.
He parts of took it could not be made out of current funds, but in considerf.nJ this question of expenditure, It became their duty to see that must be met by loan, and these he had put they restricted the ordinary expenditure of down as extraordinary expenditure, - under the head of Capital Account.

It would be seen the Dominion within as narrow limit.

as by the estimates that the anticipated expendi- possible.
There must be no waste of the ture for 1868-'69, on ordinary account, was public money and he would now propose to there were certain $13,836,644.

He proposed to add -to that, but to he did not propose to take a vote for it, the expendUures which it was impossible reduce, such for inatance as the interest on sum of $154,516, making a possible· total ex- penditure, on ordinary account, of $14,041,- the public debt, the subsidies payable to the the se~orial paymentl, 161.
This sum of $154,516, forwhlch a vote various Provinces, however - would not be asked, IJrepresented accounts payable to the Indian funci, sum interest on possible outlay on ~the Inter- necessary for the post office and steamship colonial Railroad and on fortifications.

He service under contract, and for the mainte estimated operations on Intercolonial would nance of public works.

All these were incapa ble of reduction and formed a total of 7 per extend over four yean, and on fortifications five years.
He had, cent of this whole expenditure.

He would therefore, estimated a possible expenditure on these works this year now mention items, with regard to which it to see running over a period of six months, say - was the desire of the total expenditure on the whether it was not possible to reduce them.
one-eighth of the expenditure for Intercolonial, and one-tenth on fortifications, These civil included- making altogether a capital sum the interest Government, for the administraUon of Jus upon which he had just mentioned.
And tice, for the legislation of the House, Militia, and Excise, Mis when the House came to consider the Ways Publlc Works, Customs and Means he would propose cellaneous, Immigration and Fisheries, involv Government should be placed in a position to ing an amount equal to 30 per cent of their provide for any possible expenditure that whole expenditure.

And with regard to these the Government had not been remiss might become necessary.
In addition to th1B items, in their efforts to reduce them as rapidly as what he termed ordinary expenditure, would have to be met by loans on accounts of possible, consistent with the due eftlciency state to the HOWIe that the Government there that that the [Mr. Roee (HuntIDgdon).]

April 18.

1868 COMMONS DEBATES an that high tadtr interests of the country.

importance to the credit of in tm.

American markets.

Provincial grains from entering the of the public service.
As a sample of what ed by a and had been done by the Government direction he would mention the audit meas- fisheries shared the same fate.
All these con me introduced last session, which he believed siderations had been borne in mind by the a truly important measure---one which pro- Government; but they felt that anything like vided that every shilling of the public moneys a retaliatory or restrictive policy at the pres voted and not spent, on July 1st, should be ent moment would not be conducive to the (Hear, hear).

put back into the Treasury, to be obtainable best trom thence only by a new vote.
Then the The honourable gentleman alluded next to the recent removal of one of the great obsta new Civil Service Bill was also a step in the same direction, and so was the Bill with cles to a' free intercourse between the Do reference to Contingencies.

Compared with minion and the United States, he meant the the estimates of 1867-68, it would be seen almost entire sweeping away of all the taxes that there was a considerable reduction this on internal manufacture.

in the States.

That year.


The Government thought they could see indicated a desire on the part of the people of their way clearly to a reduction of between the United States to adopt a more liberal $30,000 and $40,000 under the provisions of policy.

Besides, the feelin'g of Congress ap the two Bills last mentioned.
He now came to peared to be undergoing a change in favour of indicate the sources from which he proposed a renewal of reciprocity and the information to derive revenue, and the principles which that that body had caused to be procured and laid before them still further 'showed them had guided the Government in the matter.
the folly of the abolition of that treaty and' Before .proceeding further he desired to ap- the benefit flowing from unrestrained inter peal to the forbearance and patriotism of course with the .provinces.

It was a matter of members representing the various localities, he appealed to them not to ask at the hands the great gas interests in Boston, fact of the Government, at the present time, ap- New York and the Atlantic cities were clam propriations for new works.
Clearly it was of orous for a repeal of the duty on coal; and the other large interests were also lamentmg the the best they should not start with pressure occasioned by the restrictive policy Dominion that in force.

The honourable gentleman went on anything like a deficiency, but their income should be more than sufficient to meet to show that the exclusion of the products of their expenditure.
Another reason which the Canada from United States markets had Dot inasmuch as in been an unmitigated evil, Government could not lose sight of in fram- ing their taxation in the manner in which he consequence of it the people of the provinces was about to indicate was,' that the duty of had been forced into other and more remu the present hour was the consolidation of the' nerative markets.
One of these was the West Union not to impose any burdens which were Indies, and he .believed ftnnly J as he stood not pressingly necessary.

They felt that every there, that the splendid trade of that section new tax was liable to be misrepresented and might be grasped by the people of this coun misunderstood, and as there were some por- try.
The total trade of that section with the tions of the Dominion not yet entirely recon- United States had reached $34,400,000, and dIed to Union, he believed the policy which this trade consisted mainly of articles which he had alluded to would commend itself to the provinces produced and had for export.

the country generally.

This Government had Without trespassing further on the time and also to bear in mind their position with attention of the House to explain the motives relation to the United States.
The Ministry and policy of the Government, he would add were not that their desire was to make as few changes stances in which the country had been placed as possible, and that these should be in the in consequence of the repeal of the Recip- direction of conciliating their friends in the rocity Treaty and the unwise restrictive legls- Maritime Provinces, and also that they should lation adopted by the Americans.
The Gov- not be such as further to restrict intercourse ernment could not lose sight of the fact that with the United States.

He then referred to the tariff changes.

He said Government many of the great products of the Provinces in had been prohibited from United States mar- tended to take the duty off flour, meal grain, kets, and that in consequence the coal trade com and bread stuffS of all kinds.

<Hear, hear).
<Hear, hear).

of Nova Scotia was languishing, men working Also to take off tonnage dues for llghthouse but two or three days a week.
The lumberers purposes, and make a change in the duty on of this country too, had been almost prohibit- molasses in the shape of a reduction, and to insensible to the trying circum- that COMMONS DEBATES AprU 28,1881 revive sugar duties, a class with ,which there was great diffi.culty in dealing, especially to me~t the views of importers and reflners~ Be tween these two arose great interest' of en couraging direct trade with the West Indies.
One of the great objections to the present tariff, was the inequality of its operation.

It was a purely specific rate graduated, according to a certain scale as near as possible to the English standard.

In England, however, there were only' four or five ports at which sugar was imported, and with experienced men at these, there was little difficulty in having the rate of duty collected exactly according to the nwnber and quality of the sugar.
The opera tion of specific duty there wascomparativeIy easy, but the case was very difterentwith the number of ports in the Dominion.

Government, therefore, having due regard for the interest of cOllBumer and purpose of revenue, came to the conclusion to recommend mixed, ad valo Tem, and spec1llc rate, viz., 25 per cent ad valOTem, and 1 per cent per pound on an sugar above number 9 Dutch standard and 25 ad valo1'em,and f ,of a cent per pound on sugars below No.9 D.S.
They also proposed to reduce molasses to 24 per cent ad valorem -Melado, 25 ad valOTem.

and I of a cent spe cillc duty on molasses for refining purposes, would' remain as at present.

The duty on which wu to be 20 per cent, ad t1alO1"em and 10 cents per gallon, whether in bottle or wood; also 10 per cent ad valO1"em on beer and porter, in addition to specific duties now collected, and 5 per cent on some' articles of iron.

A small export duty would be hnposed on pine lop and shingle' boards.
On animals there would be a specific duty instead of ad valorem as at present, there would be $15 on horses, $10 on cattle, $2 on swine, and $1 on sheep.

It is also, proposed in the way of excise to impose a small additional rate on spirits to remission on corn.

It 11 also equivalent proposed to place excise duty of 5 cents per barrel on refined petroleum, all, of which would be SUbjected to inspection.
Instead of permitting articles, such as tea, coffee, wine, etc., to be imported free for the use of Her Majesty's troops, an equivalent money pay ment was provided for in the estimates, con siderable ditIlculty and abuse having arisen from this cause.
And went on to say the con dition of the trade of the country was a subject upon which Government had bestowed much consideration, in estimating the probable reve-' nue for 1868-69, and the conclusion at which they came was that it would not be safe to cal culate upon a larger revenue than during the [Mr. Rose (HunUnldon) ,J as distinguished past .year.
The estimated revenue was--from customs, $9,100,000; excise, including duty on petroleum, $3,540,000; miscellaneous, $2,500,;' 000; total revenue, $15,140,000, against a total estimated ordinary expenditure of $14,042,161, showing a surplus of $1,071,839.

He did not consider this an over-estimate.

If the country enjoyed average prosperity, he had no reason to doubt that this amount of revenue would fall short.

He· had 'used the term "ordinary from "ex expenditure traordinary".
Under extraordinary expendi ture he included I the sum of $348,700 to be in Ontario and Quebec; Nova Scotia spent etc., $690,000; New railways, lighthouses, etc., $1, Bnmswick railways, $180,300 237,000; to the capital account of m~ a total to which might be added two $2,456,000, redemption of public sums on account of debt.

amounting to $1,618,267.

This was ex clusive ot fortl11cations.

The honourable len tleman then went on to speak of the effect of the proposed changes in the tarit!

on the revenue.
on the revenue.

Intercolonial Railway, lighthouses, After recess, HOIl.

Mr. ROM resumed.

He said he felt hiS work would be only half performed if he did not say a few words with reference to the future he had indicated, and the state of their existing obligations.

The necessity for con structing the Intercolonial Rallway was ac~ knowledged on all hands.
Without it there could have been no Union, and therefore regarding that expenditure no observation would be necessary, and in considerinl their relations with other countries much needed not to be said as to the duty of taking their fair share towards the defence of the Do-.

minion, and doing that without which all their expenditure for militia purposes would have been rendered useless.

He would there fore proceed at once to state the extreme limit of the Inter colonial Railroad and for fortifications.
The gross amount of outlay for the Intercolonial Railway, for fortifications and for the sinking fund would be for the tlrst year, $309,033; the second year it might be assumed at $618,066; third year, $927,100; fourth year, $1,236,133; fifth year, $1,289,666.
This last year the max imum arumal charge both for interest and sinking fund had been reached, there would be provided a sinldnl fund of 1 per cent to provide repayment of in a given number of years, and in 38 or 41 years, the annual charge for the debt April 2.8.

1868 COMMONS DEBATES 57' too, thouehrtot possible limas, and' vince them that regarded and that to promote· by every according as the sinking fund was invested at 5 or 6 per cent, the.

debt WOuld.
debt WOuld.

be extin- means in its power the· public wealth.

<Hear).

gui$ed.

,10 show that without further undue He then" referred to s~temenk otten made.

pr,essure ~on the resources of the country, the respecting the load of debt this country had tq support, a.lld; poiqted out thet :the~pIe ot· reqUired amount could· be raised.

The honou- rable gentleman referred to the past history New Zealand had $6 per head; Queensland of the ·'ProvinCes, Showing that .

tor eight or $4.97.
tor eight or $4.97.

New~ SopijlWales, $3.21;, Vidalia, there had been a steady in- ten ye,ars.

past $2.16; Tasmania, $2.88; South Australia, Crease of"the Provinces in population' and $1.51; whUe in Canada it was only $1.12i.

He weal~~ Duling the last nine years the impor- also compared the amount of taxation here and in: New.YQrk State.

arguing that figures.


tance of'Canada' proper increased upwards of elicited by 1;h~ Financ~ C.9mmit~e of 81 per cent, exports 94 per cent; and a the similarly cheering progress, to A,lbany ConlfenijQ.n,; that State's taxation there such a great extent, had been made by the was $45 a ye~.per head as against $5 in Maritime.

Provinces in the period.

There was C~ada.,and proportion ot national debt, $158 as against $28.in Canada.
The honourable no'reason to' doubt .this progreSsive increase gentleman concluded, by an app~ to Nova would obtain in the future.as in the past.

In the exports of agricultural products.

of the Scotia members.

Tbe policy of the Govern products of the forest, of animals and their ment hadbeel\ framed with a view to remove products, and.of, manufactures, there had any injus.tiee.

that ProvInce may have suff been a corresponding large increase, showing ered, and h~·trusted that pollcy would.
con their very large expansion of, the produ<:tive pow- interests would be their voice and their re the means of ers Of the country.

Then, carrying the toreigntrade of the country had monstrances would be heard in that HOlMe.

In the last words of one who had passed trom largely increased.

inward and outward ton- nage havirlg increased to an enormous extent.

they would shape their policy with them, He gave detailed figures to show the increase· the' view to conquer· them with.

kindness.
kindness.

that had blken place under these heads; and Mr. Connell said he was satisfied the polley also the increase of population in the several Provinces toeether with increase' in commer- announced by the Minister ot Finance would cial progress and wealth as shown bye.~an- have the.

support of the House and would sion of banking eapital employed in the coun- commend itself to the people of the Domin ion.
He called attention to the item in the try, and amount deposited in banking institu- estimates' for dePartmeIital salaries and con tions, all of which aftorded evidence of the steady and gratifying progress ot the country.

tingenetes and to the tact that particular salaries were not mentioned.

and a cheering indication of a prosperous future before us.

If we worked together in it we cemented this Unio~, it we HoD.
Mr. Rc.. said the estimate for that harmony, item was based· upon existing salaries which developed the resources of all the Provinces, there could be no doubt as to what was in had all been given in the last estimates.

He store for us t'n the future.

He was not an had brought down the item in this way to enable Government to eftect reductions.
The enthusiast,' but he 'tould say that with OUr vast estimate for this item last-year was $580,533, remaining to be developed, and with a hardy, thrifty and energetic popu- but on account of the reductions lately made in the contingent expenses he would only ask lation, no more certain prospect was ever enjoyed by any country;· 11 we only did our a vote of $550,000.

duty.

(Hear, hear).


He did not allude to these satisfactory features of our position in order to ofter any encouragement to extravagant expenditure... ..On the contrary, he thought HoD.

Mr. Holton made some general re~ whatever Government might be in.

power, the people would demand a careful and economi· marks on.

the statement submitted by the aftairs.


He Finance MInister:' The honourable gentleman cal claimed that there would be a sUrplus at the thougnt the present Government could not end of the Anancial yean 186'1-68, but it wu tairlybe accused of any other than a desire from· his ,explanations that he had evident to confine expen9iture within the smallest some length repeated in Fre.D,.ch the main features of the statement of the-Minister ot Finance.

Su G. E. Calrtier administration of resources (Cheers).
then at public 580 COMMONS DEBATES April 28.

1888 increased the funded debt more than he had decreased the unfunded debt.

Th.l8 increase had gone to meet the ordinary expenses of country, and therefore the surplus on which be co~atulated the House could have no real existence.
Referring to the remarks of the Finance Minister about ·the indebtedness of the several provinces, he could not under stand how the representatives of Nova Scotia in framing the Union Act who took part could have been so utterly out of their reck oning as the statement of the Finance Min ister to-night showed that they had been.
It appeared that the debt of Nova Scotia was already lar,ely in exceB8 of what she was permitted to take into 'the Union, and this excess must go in abatement of her subsidy and diminish pro rata her resources for the ordinary purposes of Government.

The same was true also, though 'not to the same extent, with reference to New Brunswick.
Mr. lfolton proceeded to express his regret that the Fi nance Minister should have 'adhered to the old fallacy of distinguishing between ordinary and extraordinary expenditureundet cover of which for 7 or 8 years, the late Minister of Finance had left a large deAelt at the end of each year's operations.

The honourable, gen tleman had said a good deal about the advan tages of establishing a West India trade.

He <Mr.
He <Mr.

Holton) was in the highest dearee favou rable to developing our iJiland navigation; but he could not conceal from hlmseU that the St. Lawrence was not the direct route.

He doubted whether it was a practicable route from our inland lakes to the tropics.

EXCISE DUTIES, On motion of Hon.

Mr. HowlaDC!

the House -resolved itself into Committee of Ways and Means, the Hon.

Col. Gray In the Chair.

Han.

Mr. Howland then moved the adop· tion of the followlni resolutions: it ht.
That to impose an .is expedient Excise Duty of three cents per gallon on all spirits manufactured in Canada, in addition to the Excise Duties now lmposeq thereon.

it 2nd.

That to impose an is expedient Excise Duty of Ave cents per gallon on all petroleuma'nd coal oil manufactured in Canada.

3rd.
3rd.

That it is expecilent to provide for the inspection of all petro1euIJl and coal oU imported into Canada, manufactured 1n or and for the forfeiture of all such as may be offered for sale without having beeti inspect ed, and to impose thereon an inspection fee of [Mr. Holton (ChateauIUAY).J twenty cents for each and every barrel, cask, or package so,lnspected.

4th.
4th.

That it is expedient to provide that no person shall carry on the business of·reftninl petroleum or coal oU without a license for which a sum 01 Afty dollars shall be paid; such license to be renewed annually.

SIb.

Thllt the Arst and second ot the forego ing resohitioJU shall take eftect bnmediately on the passing thereof, and that the third and fourth shall take effect on and after the first day of July next. '

The HoltoMinidar of InlalUl R.....nue briefl.y explained the effect of the resolutions.
and the reasons which had led the Government to Introduce them.

too much.

The oU ought Mr.

Mack.om., objected to several points in the resolutions.

He contended that the inspection fee., of 20 cents per barrel was to be alto,ether measured in the tanks, by which the expense would be much reduced, and the inspection could be as safelY done in this way as in the barrel, as, the ,offtcer could know exactly how many barrels were In a tank.
intended that Ho~ Mr. How1aAcL in reply, explained that it was n9t the excise should apply to stock on hand; and with respect to the quty representations had been made to the Government, asking them to' impose • much higher rate ,of excise.

Some had recom rate as twenty centl per mended as high • gallon, but the Government had fixed what they believed wu a fair rate, seem.

that it was not intended to change the import duty on petroleum.

A conversational discussion then ensued between M.san.
Mack.nde and Howland.

that Hon.

Mr. Holton called attention, to the fact the day on which the ftrst and second resolutions should take eftect was not mentioned; HoD.

Mr. Howland thereupon struck out the word "immediately" trom the said resolu tion and inserted instead thereof "on and ·trom the 29th April, 1868."

' Hon.

Mr. Tll1ey then called the attention of the Committee to the proposed changes in the tariff, alreadY' explained by the Minister of Finance.

The change in the duty on wine.


really admitted the cheap French wines In bottle at a lower rate than formerly, thoulh on the whole increasing the duty on wines of all arades by thirty-Ave thousand donars.

He