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10~3 [C()Itll\I0 NS] 1084 - _.._---:.:.

:::::= -" ==:-:...==--'-..:.

:_--=========================================== is a marked increase over the year of 1894 95.

The amount of that betterment I will give in detail : THE QUEEN'S JUBILEE.

~lilitia to the fact ~Ir.

HUGHES.


Before the Orders of the Day are called, I 1ake the opportunity of drawing the attention of the hone the acting t,vo l\linister of important regiments of city corps, the 6th Fusiliers of Montreal and the 43rd Reginlent of Ottawa, are not represented in the pub lished list of regiments to furnish the quota to the Imperial contingent.

I would like to ask the hone gentleman if that is a fact.

that The l\IINISTER OF' TR.-\.DE AND CO~I· _.

_.'

--_._- "- - - .


-..-.....:::--==-=-==-==-_---:.-..-_._-----_-=-:::::::::=.

:::-:-:-=..-=- ]8~·5-9t3.

Sen"ice.

18!).t-!I;').

-----1 B cts,l ; : 11) 8')0 ')"9 40 1- i' 4Q fl~.· OO!

C ~t '.•..Jt.>._' ,·n:::!

orn~... .•..... ... 81 • -').)

"11' "t"O .. (\')~' f1/)5 tt I ' E " " " • _ I;)" ~)_ !..,.

: "'~,,:Il,.

': _ ~,t ~Cl~C •.•••.••••• : J,"'li>9,·)On iJO M)~cellnneous ... '.

~,53I.9.

{f1 IU!

---------, ~~6ln8.

;)90 72 3:~,978.l2H 47i i ......__ Total.· ..__ _ _,_.~ ... $ cts.

••I)-t ..

.
••I)-t ..

.

't\}\) .

'.

I i Increa st'· i--- $ ets.

2,19:!,813 -l8 120.:?

'i:J ~3 3ti,a74 54 :!.640.461 ~) : ed That I may .

109) mov I avail myself of V'r.A.YS AND ~lEANS-TIIE BUDGET.

$ 42,902 38,361 211,737 56,222 111,794 21,786 41,297 17,915 11,549 13,472 223,123 11,683 18,597 14,377 10,024 frienu that the list by lue at present.

and there- ~IERCE (Sir Richard Cart,vright).


I have not The total revenue of $36,618,590 fell short of say to my 'hone the estimate made by my predecessor got in fore I cannot speak authoritatively.

He his financial statement of 31st January, 1896, may be ~orrect in his statement.

to the extent of some $370,000.

Now, tak All I can say is that ,,"e should do our best to ing the report of my thODe friend the Con m'ake it as representative as possible.
But troller of Customs as my authority, it will as ,,"e ba ve got applications frOID about Ibe found that on nearly all the general lines 2~OOO officers, and we can only send twenty Iof imports "\",e have received increased re.. there are difficulties in the ,vay venue over the year 1894-95.

The following-, or thirty, Ihowever, are the main items of increase, of meeting everybody's wishes.
I sugar, of course, being the principal :- IGrain of all kinds I Flour and meal of all kinds.............. 'l"!le MINISTER OF ~"INANCE (~Ir.

Field-I Carriages .. :.............................

I Coal and coke............................

I Cotton, manufactures of.................


Drugs, dyes, chemicals and medicines... the House resolve itself into committee Flax, hemp and jute, manufactures of... to consider the \Vays and ~Ieans for raising the F'ruits and nuts, dried................... Supply to be granted to Her 1\!ajesty.

in the judgment of the GOV-I S~eds and roots is best calculat,ed to promote the, SIlk, Inanufac~ures of I Fruits and nuts, green Hats, caps and bonnets..................
He said: Mr. Speaker, Iron and steel, and manufactures of..... this motion to address to the House such Leather, manufactures of................ observations as may seem to be necess,ary Oils, coal, kerosene, and products of..... Oils, aU other............................ at the present time in explaining the finan- Paints and colours....................... cial position of the Dominion; and also to Provisions, viz., butter, cheese, lard and submit to the House the details of the tariff .

policy which, .
policy which, .

ernment, .

welfare of ....

I SpirIts and wInes .............•.......... sur e 'L a ,as .

dant reason to ask the generous Indulgence I'Vood, and manufactures of .

which the House is always ready to accord 'Vool, and manufactures of .
time, undertakes to one who, for the first a task of so great magnitude, a task which Of the comparatively few classes of goods to me, I confess, is all the greater when 1 on which the customs revenue declined, the remember the long line of able and distin- guished men who have preceded.

me in the I .. office of Minister of Finance.

My first duty Arrowroot, bISCUIt, nce, macaroni, &c ... $ 38,390 will be to deal with theatrairs of the fiscal Fancy goods.........•............. ~.. .

.

.

.
.

.

.

14,131 18'9 Glass, and manufactures of.............. 18,485 h 6; Gutta percha and india-rubber, manufac- year w, Ie e~ and this portion of my speech must of ne- ttfres of.............................. cesslty 'be somewhat ofa statistical char acter.
It will not ,be necessary for me to occupy the time of the House at great length in regard to the year 1895-96, because' the a:o~se has already been placed In posseasion of the principal points, of interest through the public accounts and the appropriationac counts, w·hichhave already been laid on the Table.
In each of the ,three classes into which our revenue is usually divided, name ly, customs, excise and mlscellaneous,tbere The second principal 'source of taxation, e~­ cise, shows an advance in the receIpts from this important branch of our service.

Of the different items included under this head.. lng, tobacco ,and snutfproved the only cases in w;hich tbe revenue fell'behind that of the preVious year.
The follOWing' statement will exhibit the quantities taken for coo sumption, and the duties ,accrued thereon of the sever81excisable items :- feel Soa~ of all k~nds b .ave a un- I' Sugar of all kinds following may be cited: • 17,059 14,608 97,521 10,351 84,754 894,428 21,033 231,569 the people of Canada.

.+h t Id I th 30th f J' b 11 h s a procee, nleats 20,265 nne, , on ded · h e • 0 ' • ,~ .

Mr. BLAIR.

1085 -....-._- ---- " ',--_.,--~--_... [.A.PRII.. 22, 1897J 1086 .- --- .._---- ._---------------- -.
-- _.. - - ..... ' .

~- .Articl... , Quantity.

!

!

Qunntit~-.

Duty.

!Juty.

Jnerease.

I ' , ( • : ; I _ f - • 1 J. .

• • .

1 11 )H. .

'4'0)0") .

.

.. .. .

To- if 11 18!tfi.

18Hii.

.

.

.

.. i ) .

.

.

.. .. .

.

- .

Irlost '090 -0""0 i ()(),628,440 j ~0 "0 .

_. .

.

.

.

.. -_._-- -----------------i-----i~-----·;-----_._- - - - - 1~9f;' i 18!J5.. 1 "-, "t":l,I)' t).,.

I ; 1 Q 3 f of -(j- , 2 -4- 0" t : : ,0' t), : .


: 50.lt5H,li27 51.tiHO,278; i lOH,131,2CJ4 I' 108,2HO,2HfJ i 80,4()1,HOU; j () 3"') tU - ' ; . "

" ,":10': ..,.

: .~J.tll·lt~!

ga ~.... '-!

i\Ialt.

Ih~.

.

.

.. Cig-ar~!

XfJ.. Cigarf'tt(·~, No.

_ '1, 1 -~~-----~--- ----~-"---_.. _._------------------_._----.._-- Sbo,,·ing a decrease in tobacco and snuff of IOcean and River Service $39,041.
It IIndians ....•.........•..•...........•.... is worth noting at this point that ac- Customs ................................• 1~9d.

.~'.l,(.~73,3rulJ- ';;'oJ ' " 77;j,:l54 "48,4G2 120.m)2 .)

')').J' .

'0- _, __","'" l.<3 \">"0 ,.....~ I ,;~:.. ; 'w .t'l .7ilH,H:"'H I n:{5,028 1 ~JH.tl-!3 1 .

:) 'll'- - 'J~ i _,.. ), " "'l~: 102,i)48 1;"),-125 1:{~4:{-t 20,74!l n ,acc() all< ~llU, (9 :;('0 13"'!

,V' )0,"1 ' i $ 23,640 74,995 21,299 these reductions the follo,ving therefore, importan.t 2'900 3 '471 3'!
""?8 a... On the whole, the contraction of The Interest on public debt..· AV{lrage from 1867 ... 1894 fl- 189~=9~' interest on iuyest- I have elapsed.

increases 111USt be noted ._ · the revenue In Iof the year's operations.

c?rding to the report of t~e b~n.

ControU?r As against of Inland n.evenue the per capIta consu1llj,J- tion of spirits and wines in 1896 reached the lo,,,,est point since confederation.

per capita consumption of "'allo~s' and of wines '-~ ~4.
:... :Mail SUbSIdIes and steamship subventions :tgalllst an avera.~e of 1'03, gallons of the Government of North-west Territories... former and '131 gallon of the latter.

The "Post Office .........................•..... follo,,~ing statement gives the ayerage per I Railways and Canals, collection.......... capit'l consumpti·):.l from 1867 to 1896, nnd!

NotwithstandinO' ~h.e_per CIPit~ consurr;.ption for .189t.)
uncI 1896 .- $ 36,135 spirits bein~ Sinking fun~s............................ 52,976 '070 gallons Superailn~a~lon 45,846 21,648 27,076 71,363 122,099 thp the years Iexpenditure the n~t outeome of the ~tear "Ta~ i a deficit in the ordinar~" running expenses of I tile country as above stated of $330,551.3l.

Spirits.

Beer.

Wine.

bacco./ The deficit for the year 1894-95, you will re Galls.

~alls.

Galls.

Lb~.

member, "vas$4,153~875.58.


'131 2-1.0 I HavinO' review'ed the main features of the 1'037 '666 2 -163 2'190 Iaccounts of the DOIDlnlon for the year ended '69J I 30th June, 1896, I must no,v ask your atten- F~l'Oln the miscellaneous sources of revenue!
tioll to the condition of affairs of the pre increases occurred in Isent fiscal year of '\vhich nearly ten months t11e First~ let nle give ~~ou as I·(.st office, $171,225.39: 1 briefly as I can, my estimate of the result Jnents, $33,953.62 ; and casual, $121,412.32.. taking the actual 1895-96 sbowed a buoyancy and eXl)nn~lou 1 figures for the period elapsed, and adding thereto the figures :lppertaining to the period in Dlarked contrast to tbe year 1894-95 Having so far given our attention to what!
fi'om 20th April to 30th June of the previous let us now iyear, nlaking such allo,vances as the alterec1 ,,-as received into the treasury, the!

circumstances prompt.

turn to the other side of the account, l\tIy predecessor estimated I Taking up the revenue side first I find that expenditure.'

is up to last that in round num:bers to $37,000,000, a.nd that Ir.ruesday night---:we received as ordinary re the receipts and expenditure would about Ivenue $30,254.403.74.

...t\.dding to this for balance.


The actual expenditure was ,vith- Ithe purposes of estimate, the actual receipts in $50,000 of the estimate and amounted to Ibet'w'een 20th A.pril and 30th June of last $36,949,142.03, but as the revenue fell short I:rear $7,892,251.81 would give us probable to the amount of $38,146,~55.55.
of expectations, instead of both sides of the Ireceipts account balancing there bas again occurred I But this I consider beyond the mark for a deficit amounting this time to $330,551.31.

I this reason.

The income from excise has Compared with the expenditure of 1894-95, I been unduly swollen by reason of duties tee year that elapsed.
on 30th June last, was I, paid in anticipation of tariff changes, that remarkable for a distinct decrease in the must necessarily affect the revenue for the public outlay, a decrease amounting to $l'-I·nalance of the year, and in our customs in receipts there has been a development 182,863.02.

The decreases were pretty gen- the last couple of months that must like erally spread throughout the various ser- Yices.
but the following are the most I portant heads :- that to arrive at $ 34,099R saf~ and reasoD3ble estimate I must drop Prenliunl, Discount and Exchange~ 25,599 .

$850,000 from the $38,146,655, given above.. Civil Government......................... 36,,882 1In round numbers, therefore, our income to Legislation • • .

.

64,3?2 "I 30th June next will, I expect, reach $37, Peni~enti~ries ........................•.. 75,403 '300,000.
Let us deal now wIth the ex Imnngratlon ....................•.•...... similar manner.

Up to Militia ..... :............................. 437,300penditure in a Instant, we 'have expend- 113,111 the 20th April MQunted Pohce............................. - 442,548 PublIc Works, Consolidated Fund........ rom Railways and Canals, Consolidated Fund 126,272 ed $..-0,463,830.01).

im- wise affect materially the year's results.

the outlay for 1895-96 would alllount!


Ull to the 20th ...>\pril-that am convinced, In t e perlo therefore, 9 - " · ...• · ," .

· h d f .... 0 .. • • 1087 [C()~I:\IONS] 1088 t .

.

I tl·~" d h' legacies Summing conlparlsons.

then said: un ers ~n $12.aHH,94M.37.

I have ~iOll.

think it will not ,ye might expect -- ------ --~----------------~._------------ to the 30th June, 1896, ~Ir.

.FOSTER.

d I -_.. --~-- ..---_.._.-- --- -- ..-... _-~ ...-_.. _~..._- _.
_¥.. "-'- - ,ve SOl'S in office, and nlay I repeat what I have the 20th ..A..pril these already stated on the floor of this Houset expended t,yO up ,,'e have the estimated expenditure I in some observations ""hich I had the priTi to the 30th June next as $37,857,779.40; or lege 01: addressing during the summer ses sas in round numbers, $37,850,000.

just estimated the revenue to be $37,300,- It will not be until this fiscal year is complet 000 ; so that ;you ,vill see, ~Ir.

Speak~r, that ed.
Speak~r, that ed.

until we have paid the debts of the hone gen if I ,,-ere to take these figures as beIng ex-l tl~men opposite, and entered upon a new year to close the present I for which we shall prepare the Estimates our act.

:re:ll' ,vith a deficit of not a very large SUID.

1 selves and have full an~ compl-:t7 control at the actual eX-l thenl, ~hat we shall be In a posItIon to make As I have already stated, enditure for the year 189;)-96 ,,'as $36,949,- i42.
or in round numbers $37.000.000; so I :\Ir hone friend ,vho leads the Opposition that the anticipated result of this year's ex- declared in some remarks on the closing penditure ,vill be greater than that of last da~· of our SUlllluer session, that this COUD ,,,as face to face ,"vith a deficit in the year by $850,000.

No,,'".

I to state the first ~"ear of the present Ministry of not less be out of place at, this point reason for this increase.

Taking the detail- II than sOlnething like $3.000,000.
I Yentnred ed services, I find the responsible increases I to sa.~- to lll~· hone friend then, that I thought the part of an alarmist.

to hale taken place on : Interf.\st on Public: be ,,,,as pla~?ing Debt, Legislation, ~Iilitia, l~ublic Works and !

~ot,,·ithstanding that have the ,\Yhat are the reasons for tIle l been left us b~" hone gentlemen opposite ,,-e Post Office.

increase in each of tbese services?


I bave been able to keep within their leader·s ,\Villlll;Y' hone friend pertuit !e~t~!~~~te" a~d to go belo\v it, to the extent that he i of ~"'~t.)()().OOO.

I While on the subject of the current year's t lID ~ sa~ ?

me: Do !n1Iairs.

I nUlY refer to the extent of our estImates the defiCIt to be $850,000 .

If I telllpornr~~ The ~lINISTER 011" :FINANCE.

No.
No.

first of to the extent of \vere to accept I given as exact, they would lead me to eX-I,' £400,000 sterling ,,,,ere negotiated by onr pect that we might reach tbe end of the I predecessors in office.

These were rene\v ~vear with a deficit of perhaps $500,000 or i ed on the 1st of January last, and to meet that that 1 the requirements of the cuuntry a further $600,000.
might be too sanguine a view, and I would I SUln of £600,000 in treasur3" bills was issued ; I think I so that to-day our temporary loans amount not wish to be bound closely by it.

we ,,·Ul have to make further allowance for Ito £l,OOU,OOO sterling, nlatnring on the 1st of In the course of some remarks at the the uncertainties of our trade during the two \ July.

I shall not be far astray I close of last session, my hon.

friend (lIr.

remaining months.


if I say \ve will come out of the year ,"vith Ii Foster) '''ho pr~ceded me as Finance Min a deficit ,"",ell within a million dollars, and ister, stated his belief that before this year I shall not be surprised if it does not exceed ,i w'as out ,I would have to borrow on the I rnarket at least $10,000,000 to make things $600,()(X).
the money so borrowed, we had to discount addltional treasury bills I,vould in the main, go, not for capital ex to the extent of $600,000, necessary to meet; penditure, but actually to meet our daily liabilities incurred previous to the present II· needs.

The position of my hone friend f~Ir.

l\:Iinistry coming into power.

Foster) as an ex-Finance l\Iinister entitled In Legislation, you will remember, we had I that prophecy to consideration, but I hope an extra session of Parliament last August.
Ihe ""ill be pleased to know that be was very Instead of having to borrow In ~Initia, o,,,,ing to the undoubted desire I far astray.

on the part of the late Government to make as he anticipated $10,000,000 to meet cur the usual militia rent expenditure.
he may be pleased to be a sho,v of retrenchment, camps for 1895-96 were omitted.. making it assured, \ve have had to borro\v that all is £600.000 sterling, and that that sum was all the more necessary in the following year this important service should receive necessary, not for one service only.. but to that put UR in funds for all the" charges -against the more attention.

In the case of the Interest on Public Debt Isquare, and that indebtedness.
On the bills I have I Jul~- last treasury ,vish to say further, the figures that In Public "\\rorks, the approprIatIons were both capital and ordInary expenditure.

I .

.

.. \yith the result cut do,,·n below what was needed for works So far, Sir, I have dealt with the expendi I that actually in progress, ture chargeable we have had to pay dur.ing the current year now turn to the debt and capitalexpendi Iture of 1895-96 and 1896-97.

The capital ex- for work done in 1895-96.


In the case of the Post Office, a similar Ipenditure for 1895-96 was Incurred under the· following heads :- cause produces a similar effect.

Accounts for 1895-:96, for work done chargeable to th a t · .

.

.. :vear were held over and not paid until the Railways", and Canals ••.•.•••.••••••• $2,519,1 •• 01 114,825 58 .. present year.

82.184 15 1,000,000 00.

Public '\V arks .... •.

.. .

.

.

.

.

.

• .

.

• .

.

• .

.


• • Dominion Lands..................... to consolidated fund.

~ .

, This current fiscal year, ~Ir.

Speaker, Is Militia the one In \vhlch we enter fully into, poss~-' ston of the legacies left us by our predec,es- Total ... · .. · · · · · .. ••· ••.

•• •••• $3,716,184 24 . '

, Mr.

FIELDING.

IOt\9 [.~PRIL22, 1897J 1090 ;~=-~lS~-;~~~he~~-:;ia:pa:;;:-;:;~r- ~;;--~~~~~-.
-;:-:::::::::::~:~;:~::~n ,,"ay, $68,669.49, and on rai1wa~" subsidies, i remember that a change took place under $8H4,745.49; making a total of altogether,: legislation ,,-hieh ,,"'as passed the :rear be !fore last, in this House and in the Quebec $4.619,599.22.

To arrive at the increase in our debt for IIIouse, ,,,,hich ,vas the onl~· reason for mall.. the ~·ear, ,ve have to add the follo,,·ing Iing a change in book-keeping.

items that affect the debt.


Quebec ran\vay I subsidy, shown first as liability in 1895-96, I The lI.INISTE.R OF FIN.A.NeE.

Pa~sin1J :rear, our expendIture $330,531.

Then there are sundry amounts I for .capital pur~s~~, ~~ich.

up to the 20th chargeable to consolidated fund amounting I AprIl reached ~2,82~,04S, ,vIll probably, by to $137,185.1H; Inaking in all.

$7,481.335.72.

Ithe end o~ ~l~ne.

next 1 be ill the neighbour- ,ve must deduct the: hood of $3,420,000.

.
.

$2.394,000; making a deficit for 1895-96 of i to the current fiscal this, however, Fronl ; is.

that !

dnct the facts.

:\11".

FOSTER.

recollection of the probable effect of 'The MINLSTER OF FINANCE.

if my meJllory serves me, as next, " .

.

I vesttnents for sinking funds.

I do not I of June, $:!,214,OOO, the Ibers.

$1.750,000.

expenditure for sinking fund, and a smallj To arriye at the refund of $542.52 on account of the North-!
whole ~~ear's operations on the net debt, we ",·est rebellion expenditure.

making $2,~35,- Iwil!

11ave to add to this the pr<;>bable deficit, 830.04:.

Taking this from the $7,481.335.72 I 'VlllCh InaJ' perhaps be placed as low as ab~ve mentioned, we.

have $5.425j.05.6S: I$;J5?lKHJ, though I hesitate to c?mmit m~·­ ',"Inch represents our Increase of debt for i self to an aillount so 1o,'\".

But If we take ,ve ,Yould then have the year 1895-9tl, and that debt stood-that!
that figure as correct, is the net <1ebt-on the 30th June last stood.

Ito charge against capital account $3,97G,OOO.

.

But J as this includes the :unount of our in- at $258,497,432.77.

,,·hich, while Is nlS hon.. frlen~ gOIng to II nn expenditure on one, bund.

must be re- make any further eXPlanatI:~n WIth ~·efer- gnrded on the other as an asse't, ,ve must de the estiulated investlUl'nts to the 30th ence to the Quebec debt of $_.394.000 !
leaving all anticipated kno,v that any explanation is called for.

[net increase of the debt of.

in round Dum l\1~· In all the foregoing I have alllount ,vas originally placed' to .the credit I kept ,yell ,,·ithin the limit of fair estimate, of the province of Quebec and they ,vere I and any Iuarked iInprovenlent in our re entitled to draw the interest.
It ,vas grant- venue between this and the 30th of June ed to them, ,vill of course ameliorate to that ex practically a refund of railway subsidies, tent DlJ' estimated deficit, and increase of and I think there ,vas much to be said in debt.

favour of treating it as a railwa~Y subsidy, Having.

Sir.

occupied so llluch time witb and placing it in the Public .A.ccounts along the two preceding years, I now turn to the 'Yith regard to the expendi ,,"ith other raU,,"ay subsidies.

Ver;y' possibly year 1897-H8.


that was not the vie,v, and at all events it is t.ha.t expectation was not done; but upon a subsequent oc- "rhile undoubtedly suppleluentary Estimates the sav.ings in the casion-the hon.
member will perhaps re- member the year-an Act was passed where.. Estinlates-that balances by the capital sum was 'placed to the credit ,,,,hich a.lwa:rs arise o,ving to expenditures of the province of Quebec, and that pro- not being carried out as proposed, and to vince was free to ,vithdraw that capital amounts being carried oyer by re-votes and sum whenever it so desired.

this the feet, It properly became an .obligation lluoment we are not, of course.

in a position of the.


Dominion, andsbonld have appeared.'

to state what the amount of our supple- in the debt account.

luentary Estimates "rill be.

but I hope they If 'w'e tal{e into account the savings to be made in the way I have agr~e .WIth ~e that t~at ~a~ not a habl~Ity indicated.

I think they will nearly represent WhICh was Incurred In 189.",-96.
the outlay under the supplementary items; lIt is simply a change nnd it ,vould not 'be, far astray to estimate it belongs to 188.3-84. for the year an expenditure of about $38,- of book-keeping.

The MINIST.ER OF FINANCE.

agree that it is not a new llability.

tariff, and On the basis of an old Item, which I think my bon.

friend looking at the probable results of the pre should have included in the debt account sent fiscal year, it would appear as if the the revenue some years ago.
neighbourhood of $37,500.000.

which would It is of course neither desirable nor desired that there should be any deficit.

We have three years in suc It is, as the hon.

gentleman says, cession.

and we all agree that we should.

If it was if possible, avoId a continuation of such an think It unsatisfactory condition of a1ralrs.

Before I conclude, I will show what steps we pro.. wish to convey the idea that it tsa new had deficits now for liability.

a mere matter of book-keeping.


an obligation of the Dominion, I should have appeared.

in the debt account.

faIr question on its face leave a deficit of $750,000.

• • • ,viU not be large.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

If that was 'Otherwise-will ture of 1897-98.. m:r 1897~98 would be in.

IDJi hon.

frIe~d .~1l1 ,vill be brought do,vn.

1\'lr.

F~STER.

But Mr. oFOSTER.

That considerable.

At I quite 250.000. is, unexpended for arbument.


the present In realIty, I do not is a for be It is e I 35 REVISED EDITION.'

1091 [CO),Il\I()NS] 1092 • 1 I I I the 'rhat saIne.

round callnot thInk It ,va:rs the hope, Sit., $.36,949.000.

I results of the ' ~Ir.

FOS'rER.

The expendIture, is a lle,v version, ,,:,"'ould appear that Before passing on to another subject, I laugh at them in this way to-day.
the I' in explanation of our financial positl.OD, It ,vill be because I know it bs.s been well that in comparison ,,"ith the ex- of the subject: tbat is, !

pose to take to Inake up ~~e additio~a~ sum i be laugh~ at the idea that those sUI!plemen required to meet the antIcIpated deficIency.

i tary Estimates represented expendItures.
I Taking the capital expenditure for 1897-98 j regret that he does so, because he laughs at $5000000 and deducting the expenditure I at his friends who on every hustings for S;!lki~g fund investluents of $2,300,000, ithroughout the Dominion represented that those expenditures ,,'ere to be made; and, it operations of the year 1897-98 \yould In-, as ~nany of th?se gentlemen ~re no longer crease the net debt ·to the extent of about I here to lueet hIm, I do not thInk be should $2.700.000.

I I No,v.

~ir.
I I No,v.

~ir.

Speaker, having said so much lllay perhaps occup~" the attention of it Honse for a fe\y mOlnents ,vbile I d,vell I becomes Iny duty to turn IllY attentIon to tlle expenditure :lskeiJ !

,,"hat I ~lIn sure is a more interesting part upon the fact for next ;year, the ne,," tariff that the present year.

appears to!

\ve are about to sub!Dit.


Be~ore.l l~roceed penditul'e of IS well be be~"ond ,,~hat "rould be supposed to be I to speak of that tariff, If hone gentlelnell ,,~in recollect, I that ,,"e should reflect for a moment on the re(}uired.

in the :veal' lS!l5-00.

the last year for which I histor~" of the present tariff, cOlnmonly call.. full returns have been issued.

the expendi- ed the ~ationnl Polic~" tur~ ,,·~s.iI!'

numbers rrhlS dImInIshed outlay was arrIved at, I!


~uppose think I :un justified in saying, by the post- 1 " - · As I The ~IIXIS1.

'BR O}1" F~INASCE.

l\ly hone poneluent of necessfi~" expenditures.

before pointed out.

the militia camlls were, fril~l1d ,viII find that it is not nl~T habit to dispensed with, and bills of various d~part- I give ne\v versions of thin~s ,vhich are al U1ents ,vere held over.

to therefore.
to therefore.

of that year cannot at all be re- offer anything that is new on the SUbject, ~arded as a norlnal expenditure.

threshed in the Est~lnates tba~ my t out in this iHouse again and again by men recollected that hOll.

predecessor in.

office laId on the.rrable I ahler than m;rself.

But I do think that at of this I-Iollse during the first sessl.on of In.
luonlent ,vhen 'v~ are about to turn a "":l~r 1896. he asked for a service on consol.ldated I from the policy, which I rega.rd as a mis to Inn k'~ fund account of $&~.3~,OOO; and, dition to that.

although It has been said that ~(Hne reference to the present [loliey :llHI the eireunl~.tances under ,vhicb it caIne into they ,,"ere not settled upon by the Govern- Dlent and ,,,ere not presented t?

the House.

existence.

suppose it \"ill not.


be qucs there were su,pplementary Estimates to be Honed that at the time of the union of the \vhich \ve have beard provinces, one of the nlost serious ob~tacle~ hrought do,vn.

of sOlnething in pa~t d~ba.t~s.

I know that my I,,'hich the Pl"ODlotcrs of that g'l·ent 1110\·e nH.~nt encountered ,vas the difficnltJ· on the bon.

friend has deSIred It to be understootl that ~hose Esthnates had n<:t recelved the tariff question.
The lower provinces ,vere firm believers in the policy of free trade, sanction of the GovernUlent In all respects, and he has not been ,,,,illing to be held re- 3S the ,voros ,\,\,rere understood; at all events, sponsible for thenl; but at all ev~nts he in favour of the p!

)~icy of a lo'v tariff.

The I am sure.

adnlit that a conSIderable upper provinces-Old Canada-bad a tariff \yill.

"'hich the maJ1ithnepeople regarded as portion of those Estimates puhlic prQperty.

though I am bound to ad.

!


";onle\"'l'bat high, men "rho had the confidence of the GO!- Dlit that.

in comparison ""ith tariffs of late:" ernnlent thou~ht proper But I aUl friends in diff,,erent parts of the DomInion Isure the hO,n., leader of the Opposition (~!r that intimately those Estimates \vere to be made.

When and prominently connected with the move.

we came into office.

"'Pe found large esti- for confederation.


will bear me out nlates prepared in the departments, and we ,,'hen I say that the tar'iff question ,vas one they were prepared of the great causes of difficulty in bringing .

cannot suppose that without any intention or theIr forming part nbout 'rIle If we add hun.

gentlcJnen who d·~sired to promote that of tile expendltures of the year.

to the main estimate of $38.300,000 above I!


!ovelDent found it necessary to give to the ltiven the probable amount that would bq.ve r(lople of the maritime provinces the most been 8,sked for in supplementary Estimates sucre'} and solem'!1 assurance that if this for 1896-97. the maritime pendltl1re asked for by me next year.. say prov!3ces would not l'8ve to assume the $38.250.000.

Is much less than the probable burden and responsibIlity ofa high tariff.
t.hat would have been asked ·for had True, you will not ,find that in the British RUDl hon.

gentlemen opposite remained In powet~ North America Act, but I venture to say it "as an unwritten tre~ty between the pro- !Toters of the union and their friends in the to friend says that Is rather speculative, and say that, In the beginning that treaty ,yas it will be found that the ex- union could be accomplished, lly hon.

maritime provinces, and it Is but fair become inasmnch as hOD.
gentle- the expenditures contemplated under Charles Mr. FOSTER.

Rather speculative.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

,yas very moderate.

,,·e shall do ""ell to assu!e !hell' tbe provInces.

the union of tnken policy, ,vIlo was ~·pnl's.

it Tupper), In ad- lnent had I ?dr.

FIELDING.

1093 __- - - .


J__ [API{IJ~ 22, 189;] 1094 I It t.hat ,vas 'l'rue, party, \\·as not time do,vll It ,yag the part of to the moment at I Inade in the direction of the ,Yorhl at large-it was not until indeed until 1816, or ure ,vith re~ret.
Observe~.--;~e firs;:::~~;Of-;O:;~~~~:~~:f~:~~Y~---b-~t-~~~:S-t~:---::~r~wtll-;.f-IJOli~i:al ,vas a moderate tariff, and although a year idifficulties in ,,-bleh the leaders of the Con.. or t\\'o later it became necessary to change 8€rvative think erroneousl~·, per.. the duties some'\vhat in the interests of re-I nlitted theJnselves to b;~ led aw'a~" f1'Olll the there ,yas no substantial departul'\~ old f!lith; and I venture t:) sa:r no,y that, ,"cuue, from the terms of what I bave described in the light of history, man~· Conservatives as the un\vritten treaty ,,·ith the lo\ver pro- lof thi::; country look back upon that depart Though they SUI)llorted vinces.
flbout that tilne, that the question of a high the ~ational Policy belie\"ing it ,,"ould be tariff gravely OCCUl)ied tIle attention of this inst.runlentnl in developing the best interests in 1870 or 1871 the question of th·~ countr~·, thejr ''''ill admit to-day that IIol1se.

of protection had been mooted, and a policy it ,va.:; a policy of disappointJnent, and tha~ of protection, as respects a limited list of I in all prObft bility, Canada ,v(iuld have pros articles, had been agreed upon temporaril,)·.
ppred 1110re if she had adhered to the llolicy but that policy \vas abandoned in 1871. and of a lo'," tariff.

I lla v'e pointed out that the Conservative fro III \vhich the Government of the late SIr JOhnlllarts :Hlopted the policy of protection at a l\Iacdonald retired from office, no further tilue of considerable d(\pression, ,,,hen there ulo\"eInent \vas 1"00 luuch disposition, I ~Ul1 afraid, on the people to take up any ,,-hat w'as called a protective tariff.
not until the Government of Sir John ~Iac- l;o~truul ,,,hich seemed to ~ive a pronlise of conald bad been defeated and Mr. Mac· 3. bettf:r state of things.
But ,ve nla~" 'Yl·ll it ,vas not until a psk ourselves to-day ,vhat ,,·ere the induce kenzie 'V3.S in power, period of great depression bad come upoa lllellts that ,,-ere held out to the people to I shall not detain fhe the country-and not uI)on Canada alone accept that polic~": llonse by going through all the predictions but there ,vere conditions more calculated to I,,·hieh ,,"ere ul:lcle and the expectations luake people anxious in Canada, as ""ell as I,,-hich were created.
but SOUle of the things elsewhere.

as to the business prospects of 'Yhich occurred at that tirile Inas ,,·ell be that an~" serious movement mentioned.

One of the lllost inlf)ortant and the countr:r, the most CODunon argulnents used took place in Canada for the establishment one of of a protective tariff.
Xow, it is well known was that a protective tariff, though pro lIac·· bably not a very good thing In itself as a that the manufacturers came to Mr. kenzie bet,veen 1874 and 1878, and proposed permanent polic~", lnight be a good policy to him that he should increase the tariff.

to adopt temporaril~".

If you ,vill give, No doubt they thought that they were cor- they said, these infant industrIes protection, rect, no doubt they believed that 'prosperity Ithey will.
time, become ,,·ould result from the adoption of a protec- I strong and vigoroes and be able to stand th"e system, and.

therefore, desired that ~h·.

alone ,vithout protection.

Well, }[r. Speaker, l\Iackenzie should yield to their views.

But 'we are able to deal ,,"ith that argument to '\'eall kno\v that ~£r.

~fackenzie refused to day in the light of experience.
We have do so- Now, I believe that Sir John Mac- had eighteen years of pretty high protec o as good tion carried into effect nnder conditions as donald ,,"as up to that favourable as could be wished 'for in Can trader a ever 3da, and ,vllat has been the result?

These have no industries have grown bigger-and deliberately adopted :pro- teetIon wIth the their voice still tc.

it as the fixed policy and princIple of the, cries cut that if the nursing bottle be taken ConservatIve p.l.rty.
On the contrary, I be- immediately perish lieve that he ,vas tempted to yield to it Ifrom the face of the earth.

And so we find for the moment by thes clamour that ,vas that the 13 ised by 1he protectionists, and the belief policy of protection was only intended to that he might be returned to power.

But encourage infant 'industries, and that fora If ,,?e refer buel\: to the discussions of thes~ Y(l·ry short time.

has not been realized.


,ve ,,"Ill find that in the resolution~ Then we .llad another strong temptation dsys, 8ubmltted and the speeches made by She to adopt the National Policy.

There was a John lfacdonald and his followers~ the ",ery strong desire among the people for a ,vJ101~ question of protection was treated in reciprocitl" treaty with the United States, a ,"ery gingerl)" \vay indeed, and the reRO- and bon.
gelltlemen opposite thought they lutions for which the Conservative party could do notbing better than use the reclpro voted at that time wele resolutions whieh cfty cry to help them to make the National Jnigbt mean almost anything.

.They were Policy acceptable.

Thehon.


leader of the the platform Opposition (Sir Charles Tupper) went down is true, but it protectionist, "'as one which enabled a Minister of the to the maritime provinces, where the idea Cro"'n to go down to the maritime provinces otreciprocity was very agreeable to the and otr.er himself for election on It as the people, and gave the electors there the as I mention this to sho·w surance, with all the vigour we know he is champion .free trader.
thnt the polley of protection was not de- capable of, that If they ·would accept the liberntely adopted even by tbeConservatlve National Policy, time ~fr.

Mackenzie.

he that tbepollcy of of adherIng their voice stronger, but the prediction made then that in :l ver~r short as evidence they will intention infant thenl, from· seen free I in two years he would - 35~ 1095 [COl\'[l\!

()NSl 1096 I I as ,,"e " - - - - '.---- ~~ _ .. _._._---" --~ ••._-.

.
.

~.. _-_._-~ ....-.- think that _.- .__ ._-_._-_... __ ._-~.. --_.-.

- - "•..._.... '---~.~~ -~_.¥ _.... ---_.

"._--~._--- - .. _..~._- the increase for it ,vas 0·17 per cent.

should acknowledge.

._----_._------_•._ - - - - - - - undertake to bring about reciprocity 'lvith the United States.

On another occasion.

later on, m~~ hon.

friend extended the time or:.e y~ar-he only ,,"ante·1 three years to bring about a reciprocity treat~~.
""'ell, we have had eighteen ~"ears of the ~ational Policy UI:d I anl ~ure my hon.

friend 'Yill not dis sent ,,,,hen I say that in the last year of the Conservative term of office.

they ,vere far ther R\Vay from reciprocit;}" than they eyer ","ere during any previous year of their ex istence.

the National Policy ma~· yery properly be tested to-day in the light of all these promises.

But tbere ,,-as another im promise made \vhicb ,,"as of greater portance.
think that the strongest argu n',ent used b~· my Conservative friends in advocating the National Policy ,,·as that it ,vas going to increase the population of our I think that this test of popula country.

tioll, which has so often been applied be fore, may well be applied for a few mo Jnents again, because 1 think the lesson is full of importance and cannot be applied too often.
The policy which was inaugur ated in 1879, and which had been previously kno,vn in 1870, for a short time, as the told the people in very Xational Policy, glowing terms what it would accomplish I t was to remove distress and lead to.

,,·hether in agriculture or manufacturing, and distress did exist, as had to be acknow ledged, during the period that lfr.
Mackenzie ,,,,as in po,ver--and it was to lead to great prosperity and the rapid up-building of the Immigrants were to flow in and country_ employment was to be furnished for all.

the Opposition (Sir The present leader of Charles rr'uppel') said that the this was supreme test of prosperity: In the proyince of ~ew Bruns per cent.

,vick, from 1871 to 1881, the population in creased 12·4 per cent, and in the next ten :rears it increased 0 pel" cent.
In the pro vince of ~Ianitoba the increase from 1811 to 1881, "as, of course, very large, as this ,vas in the early history of that province.

The increase in those years ,,"'as 2017 per cent.

In the next ten ~"ears the increase was 14-1 per cent.

Of course, I do not think the saUle force ,vould attach to this compari son, because the country having just been the rush of population would opened up, llnturall~; be some,vhat larger than after ,,"ards.
But I a.m sure that e,en in regard to :\Ianitoba the census returns must have been sadly disappointing.

The province of increased in a larger Brit.ish Colulnbia degree from 1881 to 18U1, than in the pre the earlier yions decade.
pc'riod being 36·4 per cent, and for the later, 98·49 per cent, a large increase in that pro vince, In Prince Ed,vard Island, the increase from 1871 to '1881 ,yas 15·8 per cent, and from 1881 to 1801, In the ~rerritories the comparison is not given so closely, and I cannot give the percentages.

disclosed by the census of The increase 1881 for the whole Dominion was 18·97 per cent, and by the count of 1891 it was 11·76 per cent, a decrease in progress of a little oyer 7 per cent.
The growth of the coun try, in point of population was Dluch slower under the National Policy than it ,,~as during the period before that polic~" was put in operation.

Eliminating the new portions of the Dominion, and considering the provinces of old Canada, ,,"hleh include the \vhole population except about 400,000, the results are stillmore disappointing.
..;.-\.c I have cording to the census figures that ~iven the increase in these provinces was In point of population the grt.,,,,th of the older provinces from 1871 than three times as I till It is our 1gl~q.t ~tS ,vas during the decade spent it - i t must be by bringing people into it.

.. policy to bring people into our count~yand to I them when here, and I wholly nnder ConservatIve.

rule and "'h~lly furnish employment for that is the only polley by which.

Canada can hope !

under a protective tariff..


The populatIon to attain 8tny position of importance in the world.

!of the maritime provInces in 1871 "".as 7"'7.

We .must have a large and extended immtgra- \ 000. and in 1881 it was 870,OOO,an increase In 1891 the population of those tion and give work to people when they come' of 103,000.

I provlnces was 880,000, an increase of only here.

Taking population as the test of proS.

!10JlOO people in ten years.


At the rate of the results of the census of lS91, 2 per cent per annum.

the natural increase perity, the last official figures to hand, were eer-l of 870,000 persons would be 174,000. instead tainly disappointing.

In the Increase for ten years in cial figures.. 1871 the population was 1,620,851.

In 1881 the maritime provinces was less than the it had Increased to 1,926,922, an increase of natural increase for one year.
The aggre In 1891 the population had gate population of the three chief cities of 18-6 percent.

the maritime provinces.

Halifax:, St. John grown to 2,114,321, an increase of 9·73 per In cent, as compared with 18·6 per cent in the and Charlottetown, In 1881, was 73,712.

In the.

province of Que- 1891 It was 74,113, an increase of 400 previous ten years.

bee the Increase of population from 1871 to.

souls in ten years.
souls in ten years.

This National Polley 1881 was 14: per cent, and from 1881 to 1891, was to do great things for the farmer.

The 9·5t~ per cent.

In the province of Nova number of farmers and farmer's sons en Scotia the increase In the first period was gaged in farming.

by the census of 1881.

13-6 per cent, and in the second it was 2-23 ":88 656,112, and, by the census of 1891, it said he, as reported in the "Hansard" of exc\:odingly small.
1877, page 167- I have here the om- lof the actual incr~ase which we find.

In the province of Ontario, in I other words; If we are to have a country at all,- 188:~.

was more .

.

.

.. therefore, • .

Mr..

FIELDING.

1098 1 .

~'et ten ~~ear :o;}}()\Vll huve these period gro\vth otficin!.

in I ::lll(l in 1891, ft'OIll are from 1871 steady if loss of 1,241,000. ,,~a8 onl~" 509.429. the predictions of I believe these census If the anticipations countr~~ ; So tbat~ estimating the loss of .

..._-_._._---.
..._-_._._---.

- ----_._-... , under the ~ I-Iarrist.on and 11"'ergus.

The natural increase on the whole Now', increase which can; furnished a 'home market thus sho,,"ing by immigrants ""QuId ~e brought lAPI{.II~ 22, 189;] 1007 --_._--- --_..---_.-.-...., ...- _.._...._._--_....

_.-.-.--_._..__._._._-_.-_.....__._---"--_...

-----_... ....\.mherstburg, St. ,vas 6..J:9,~, a uecrease of 7,206.
The Dum- ; Dundas, Bo,vmanville, bel's increased in British Columbia and the i Catharines, Port Hope, Ingersoll, Napanee, ~orth-,vest Territories, but the old provinces: Strathroy, Paris, Prescott, Whiitby, liJncar slio,\" a decrease in the number of farmers, i cline, ~Iitchell, Port Perr~~, Thorohl, Dunville, ~Io8t of these had d.ul~ing this ~atiollal I\)lic~~, of au,042.
The decrease of : a to 1881; farlUel"S in Ontario ~YUs 2'5 pel' cent, the National in Nova Scotia 15'9 Policy had been even partially fulfilled, all Quebec -:l'U per cent, per cel1t, in New Bruns,vick 15'S per cent: these towns, among the most thriving in On.. and in Prince Ed\vard Island 1-3 per cent.

; tario, would have prospered exceedingly and to the farmers The rate of natural properly be credited to a country like CaD- : that they ,vere Ie·d to expect.
Dundas was ada is about ~ per cent per annum, or 20 ; a prosperous manufacturing town, and in in ten ~·ears_ So, by adding one- ; creased ,by several hundreds up to 1881; pel' cent that growth ,vas stopped and it de.. fifth to the population of 1881, and by add- .

but lng also the immigrants, we get the popu- cUned in population until, there lution tllat should have been found here in was some t,YO hundred less than in 1881.
1891. returns are population of 1881 is 865,000, and the num- of the utmost iInportance, and they are a bel' of immigrants officially certified as ell- proper subject of discussion, because it was during terillg the country the decennial claimed that the National Policy was to be ,vas 8S6.000, making a the instrument whereby the population was period ending ISOl, total increase of population of .1.751,000. to be increased, whereby our young people But the actual incre~lse found by the enu- would be prevented from going away, where Juerators to the figures.
which :l of the prODloters of the ~ational Policy had I to been realized our o,vn people would have see how any thoughtful ,man could doubt, reluained ,,~ith us and all these immigrants from the moment those returns ","ere pub lished, that the National Policy had failed as ,veIl.

population as cOlupared with the gain we to accomplish its purllose.
Prior to the pub ,,~ould have bad if predictions had been ful- lication of those returns, many intelligent fairl:}" be claimed that the people 'Ybo had not given the subject serious filled-it nlight increase of those who went away consideration ,yere no doubt convinced in natural should also be taken into account, but even their own Blinds, partly through party zeal Olllitting this-that loss amounted to about and partly, I suppose, from reading the pub The lic press, that the National l'>olicy was fill one and a quarter lllillions of souls.
foreign-born population in 1881 was ing up the country; but when these census total 609,348, or 14'3 per cent of the total popu- then every ,YUS 645,507. a thoughtful man in ,the eounrtry must have Intion.

the ~ational Polic~1" had little less than 14 per cent, the increase in understood that nurnbers being 36,159.
The numbel' of im- been a very great failure, and indeed a bit.. to every man ",·,ho had luigrnnts alread~· stated as arriving in the tel" disappointnlent l\Iy hono friend who couutr3-· in the ten ~~ears from 1881 to 1891, honestly supported it.

IIigh COllllllis.. ,vas 886,000.

So, are sioner in London at the time; and in his general \YUS borne out by the details.

The census found official in 1892, he felt obliged to fe,Yer Irish and Scotch in Canada than ten : Iuake this sad statement: ~·ears ago.
",file Scotch decreased by 8,000, j I need hal dly say that tb~ returns of the cen.. and the Irish by 36000 During the SaIne!

received here (in Lon- perIod no less than 6aa,0?0.

ImmIgrantS left; dOll) with a certain amount of disappointment, Ireland and ,,"ent to the UnIted States.

The l as it was quite expected that the population illlmigration into ~Ianitoba and the North- i would exceed five mfllions.
What effect this may "~est from 1881 to 1890, both inclusive, nunl- ; have on ill1nligration, I am not prepared at this hpred.

according to the blue-books.

258.814. ; filoment to say.

The population in 1881 ,vas 118~70f).

'Yhich.

I 113..1 n V{lry ,,·ith the 258,814. of otfieial illlluigrants.
8110u111 ~ serious effect on immigration, because we have enabled ihe f.\Ulllneratol"S to find at l know that the immigration returns for re least 377,520 residents in the Territories and ~ cent yea;rs have been far from sa:tisfactory.

l\Ianltoba; all they did 'find was 254,164:,; I had a conversation recently on this sub a loss of over 122,000 settlers.

As the De-: ject,)fr.


Speaker, with a very prominent partment of Agriculture reckoned each set-; member of the Oonservative party, who Is tler as baving a value to the country of j the head of one of the great manufactur $1,000, there Is a loss to the country of 122 i lng enterprises in Canada.

I do not imagine if we are to accept those fignres.
; for a moment that he was less loyal than DlilUons, The following are some of the places in On.. : he bad been 10 his party; at all events, tarlo where ·there \YfiS not .only a failure: I knew him as a Conservative then, and to rl~tain the llntul'nl increase.

but an actual: I believe be is a Conservative still.

But in discussing the subject, decline in Dumbe.rs: Cobourg, Goderich,!

that gentleman, lends the Oppusition w'ns returns ,,,,ere br'ought immigrants results In 1891 the total tun afraid.

Sir.
Sir.

850,000.

These in Canada were the loss of ~ _:" • • • l'eport, dO'Vll, that fail : sus it ' .

4 .

.

I • l. 1099 [CO}f~IONS] 1100 ---' ------"'-.---..-.-.------ ....-------...---..-..-.~-------·--.~-·T----.---------- _.. .

0_-0.,_._- -- .- --- .__...... ~_.. ~ -'-' --~ ...'_-._-0- I • • -, _.

• .. .

.

.

.

If ".. • " .

an.d ~n~h ~ho,v NO\Y, result, I ,vant the failure of asselllbled, declare,- ,vhen the seeoull , now clearl:r defined.
to read to :you, not in the light of experIence, e should tind as a i other issuC"s, a!Jt.l suhjeet the results ,vill llO't be such that \ dict of the electors of Canada.

said to me : The returns of the census were; persons who honestly supporte.d it, and that the to me a bitter disappointment.

We cannot, country, is now pre stand, he said, another census in Canada: pared t.o declare for a sound fiscal policy.

.

result, The Issue between the two political partIes is l 'k th t 1 e a .
of the next census that there IS no better: The Go\"ernment admit their showing, then, he said, I shall lose all faith' fiscal policy, and now profess their willingness to in the future of Canada, and I shall have: make some changes; but they say that sucb to look to SOlne other country as a field for' changes must be based on the principle of pro- m:r capital and my enterprise.

We hope tect}on.

antI believe that b~" a change of policy the:.


"e. den?Unce the prln~Iple of protection as rad census returns of the present decade ,vill; lCall~ unsound, and unjust to the.

~asses of the • ~ : people, and we declare our COnYlctlon that an!

a bad not "C: tariff ehanges based 011 that principle nlust fal' 110l~~ and beheyc that to afford any substantial relief frotl1 the burdens census is tali-en, and ,vhen ,ve sball have under which tbe country labours.
an oPpol'tunity of comparing ten years of This issue we unhesitatingly accept, and upon Conservative rule ,vith ten J"ears or Libe- i it we await with the f~lIest confidence the ver i·al rule, anyone of our leading Liberal nlallufactur- i ~Ir.

Speaker, the electors of Canada.

in due ers or capitalists ,vill have to say that he: course, gave their verdict upon that and upon is losing faith in the country.

to :,u(·h eha.ll~!·S ~Ir.

Speaker, as to the manner in!


as changing circumstances nlay require~ and which this tariff revision should be brought: as to ,vbich I shall have something to sar about, that it: as I proceed, we accept the Liberal platfornl bas an~· element of novelty, but because it: of Otta,Ya as the declaration of principles properl~" fits in at this stage of m~~ speech, ~ ,vllicb ,,"e are bound tu folIo,,· in our tariff the platforUl adopted by the I..Iiberal pa-rt~,.

: reform.
: reform.

in the great convention held in the cit~" of!

It b .

Ottawa in 1893 : !

!

Chair.

've, the LIberal party of Canada, in convention; I That the customs tariff of the Dominion should I be based, not as it Is now, upon the protective I principle, but upon the requirements of the public I C~Ir.

'l"hen you left the service; finished ~oo~~~n:~~~:p~e~ :n~o~:~~ti~~i~:e~c:e:~e~~w~~~ 1 rending the Libe.rul pl~tforln .adopted at the to keep themselves in office, has developed mon- i Qua,va conventIon,.
the.

~3rty ta1'111 re- opolies, trusts and cOlnbinations ; It has decreased the value of farm and other Ifornl.

It bas been a, common conlplaint of our opponents that the policy of the l ..iberal It has oppressed the masses to the enrichment partr on the tariff and in the direction of tariff reform ,vas a POliCJ'9 that 'w'as adverse to tbe interest of in- uustr les of the cou~tt~.
'~e ~ave In tIme~ I p~st protested 3:galn~t thl~ VIe,,,,, and ~e ,\ e do not admIt casioned great public and private injury, all of Ithat a high protectionist tariff is neces:5ary the developlllent of manufacturing in wblcb evils must continue.

to grow in int~nsity for in Canada.

One would almost as long as tbe present think from the manner in ,vhich this argu- force.
is so frequently used ,by our oppon- ents that there ,,"'ere no manufacturing in- There dustries in Canada before the days of the is that T,hat the highest interests of Canada demand a while perhaps ,,"e had not so many large indl1striesas we have to-day.
,,~e had on removal of tbis obstacle to our countrJo"'s pro- gress, by the adoption ot a sound fiscal policy, the 'Yhole a more healthy and satisfactory which, while not doing Injustice to any class~ condition of nlsnufacturing industry before ,,·ill promote domestic and foreign trade, and .the days of the hi~h tariff than we have h~~~ t~e ::~~r~n~f&~OS~~~~Ysi~~~r:eeo~l:u~ed had s.iDce.

That.
That.

Si"r, I think bas b~e.n the to the needs of honest, economical and efficient experIence of many of the commuDltIes of government; .

.

It has.

checked ImmIgration;.

It has caused great loss of populatIon; It bas impeded conlmerce ; It has discriminated against Great Britain; In these, and in Dlany other ways, It has oc- I still protest agaInst That t~e ~xlsting tariff, founded upon an un-l Chair at six o'clock, :\fr.

FOSTER.
FOSTER.

Here endeth the second ment 'l'he ~IIXISTER OL" lIl\ Speaker, are SOUle excellent lessons ~"et to come.

i placed on record Its deSIre for The lIINISTER O~., FINANCE.

tarIff system remains In dustries Xational Policy.

The fact, I After Recess.

the Speaker left the the manufacturinO' Clng Six o'clock, landed property; I had just 1Fielding).

of a few ; FIX.A.~CE lesson.

think, Canada.


That it should be so adjusted as to make tree, changed our that the neces- methods of dealing with manufacturers, or bear as lightly as possible UPOD, sarles of life, and should be so arranged as to and the change, I think.

has not been tor pron:ote free trade with the whole world, more the better.
We developed manUfacturing In ~::~~U.larIY with Great Britain and the United the good old days in the good old-fashion- We believe that the results of the protective ed \vay.

A,D honest workman opened his system has grievously disappointed thousands of modest shop ina growing town.

He made- It is true , 9~:" ~VhlC~ have ,,'"e It.

In ,.

0. "

• Mr.

FIELDING.

1101 [.-\PIlII..

:!

:!, ] 897J 1102 .


., aull served earnetl ".., .. Illoment ; loss of honest goods their inVeStInellt, anll SOlne hone )II~~IBEI{S. IIear, hear.

,vhich excessiye coulpetition comes.

the com petition ,vhich results from oyer-productIon a!

home.
home.

.-\.fter a short struggle it ,vill be dIscovered that his factory, heralded "rith such a flourish of trumpets, can no 101l(J'er !intI ,york for its people or a market for its gcod~; so the factory closes up, and the ,,·orluugmen in ''''hose intert'st "\ve ,vere told the ~ational Policy ,vus framed may go they can.

abroad and find ,,,ork as best l!as.

not tha~ be~n the history of many a i\utlonal Pohc~r factor~" in Canada '!

the things which the comulunity wanted.


He made a reputation for the articles he produced.

He had the good sense not to attempt to make things not suited for the market and ,vhicil witll his limited equipment and the smali area of the lllurket, he kne\v it \vould be fool ish to attempt to make, articles of a very advanced character.

But be made the things the com ,vhich for the lllunit~·, and as days rolled on the com n1unit~" gre,v and his shop grew with it.
He enlarged the field of operations; his repu tation for luaking honest goods at fair prices belped to build up his industry.

By and by Sonle hone )lE)IBEH.S.

Xt), no.

sons came to him and joined him in the faetor~·, and their youth and energy en-; ~ larged the scope of its operations.

The shop ~ The ~II~I~1:EI~ OF FIX..-\~CE.


':l"llell \ve ,,-as enlarged; ne,,' machinery was intro- i pa.ss on ~nd reach the next stage, ,vhieh in duced ; more help ,vas added, and so grow- : eVltably follo\ys the stage of over-produetion.

iog "ritb the gro\vth of the community~ there: 'l'hen the big Dlanufacturer comes ill anll \vere built up legitimate manufacturing in- I buys up the little factory for a song.

rrhe dustries in nlany parts of Canada.


That: stockholders, Ulan)" of \vhom are generall:r ,vas the de\"elopln~nt of llulDufactures in a i people of :-;mall llleans, have to suffer the the factor~", legitiluate "·a~Y.

..And now the times baYe changed.

We i then in the sheriff~s hands.

passes into the have had another ,,"uy of developing manu- i hands of SOUle ,Yealth~" manufacturer, who factures.
and it ",-ill not be unprofitable for i ,yin be ,villing to pay therefor in order that us if ,ve looli: at- ,vhat the results have been i he may control tIle 11larket "rith the pro ':rIle old fashion ,yorkman" ducts of his larger factor~·.

'Ve have had in luany cases.

never dl'eanled of asking bonuses, exelup-; that development, antI all oyer Canada we tions.

or fuvours or anything of that kind· .


have hud cOlllplaillt::-i or that condition of he expected to pay his ,va;y like a man and i affairs~ ,vhich ,,"as referred to in the Liberal to earn everr cent he got.

Bnt no,v under; platfol'lU as the ~.

th.1yeloplnellt of lllonopo the high tnriff policy the first step in the llies~ trusts aud cOlubines."

I SUblUit that the developIllent of the olden direction of a new factory is to have the; ,,-as ~lo,,-~ ,vas a lllore ,,~hole­ bonus hunter set out on his ,vay.
He ex-: tilnes, :11Hl that the10e is a bet peets to receiv'e as a matter of course ex-: SOllle deYclopluellt, taxation which every; tel' cllance for the developluent of manufac eluptiol1 froID the other citizen expects to pay as a matter of ; t.uring enterpl'i~es a there is in the end course.

Not content ,vith having an A.ct of : lllodera.te taraT tll:Ul tariff polic~·.

The big fish Parlialuent lit.tle ones.


Under the prices for his goods, he thinks the city ; 'Yill to,,"o or village must give him further help !

~ntiona~ Policr small manufacturers by ""3J" of :l site for his factor~· or by some: ,,,ere drlyen to the ,Yall ; the large ones lUfty grant of that kind; and.

in people of the town shake their heads and; Ulost instances the end COUles, because the do not think they should help him ill that' ,vhole business rests on an artificial basis.
particular ""a~,,,~ he will the manufacturing tbere are other towns quite ready to do so interests of Canada should not be luisled and he will they are identified neces if they do not by the cry that sarily ,vith the success of a high tariff grant the bonus, town not far a "'ay ,,~ill grant it.
And so this system of polic~", nnd I believe Inan~" a manufacturer protection, al,,"ays selfish, always greedy.. has no,,,, Illade up his mind that \vould sets these t,,"o to,vns by the ears -to bid be better for hinl if ,ve had a very moderate to be rivals and jeal- reYenlH~ tariff than the artificial condition against one another, instead of cultivating brought nhout by thl" Xationnl Polic~~.

OllS of each other.

tllose friendly relation~ which should ~xist.

Let us remenlber.
Let us remenlber.

Sir, that the protectton ist hnd luore than the advantage of the ':rheD tIle factorJ-?

is built in one town or the articles he the other.

a Dla.rl\:et for its products.

lnanufactnred.

Nature is to a certain ex has not been o,erdone.


undoubtedly for a tent a protectionist, because she has placed ~hor~ tilne this factorY will prosper, and advantages in the ,Ya~" of the home manu In the first place, he has the ad It 'w'Ill hlgb tariff and charge the consumer every vantage of ",That I may call convenience.

For a little It is more convet;lient to buy thIngs at home penny tlle la\y will permit.

than to send abroad for them, and other ,,·hile this ,vill go on.
and then we will reach the next stage of the protective move- thing'S being equal.

any one in Canada would stage at prefer to bn~" thelll at home.

Then be has ment; if perchance the: bold on for a ,,"hile.

but even for thenl to license him to charge high j under the higIl If it is fortunate enough to have rate of duty I am sure, of the fncturer.
intimate that the relllind them that take advantage, if the business then we will end uuder reach the therefore, imposed ent up rival that if it sa~.. the the the on in it I 1103 -~ _.

-~~-...- ... _--~._ ....._-----, - - .~--_..- ..- _._._--- '-~_._' lC()l\.Il\10NS] 1104 .---~-- ----_.

-_._~.. ~_.~.~._- -- --_.

--_.

----_.._-,,-----,_._-----_ .. , -- --_._-_.._--_.~ .._.._-_.-..- .._- ..._.~----._ ..-._--..-_.._.._._-_.._- -- I to the and true.

goods higher articles.


'Yill call bu~' is not these means fOl'eig-ll I I do not forget It is but fair to say that t;lriff hearings ,ye ,vere in- by all the people conditions.

~o"", Sir.

it ,yill soon nnlong Canadian that you put a luoderate revenue tariff, lQ,ver taxatioll.

insurance to ,,"'hich I have referred, the pro- nave much to hope for from a reform of the the advantage 'Yhich I It costs not onl~" tariff ,'Vhich ,vill mov'e in the direction of tection of transportation.
If upon these advantages time but mone;r to bring things from abroad, and ,vhen :rou consider freight, if ~"ou take the nnd other expenditures connected with the protection, a~ ~·ou ma~:" call it, a protection handling of goods.

that particular element of convenience; if you tal~e the l)rotection affords a large lueasure of protection for of transportation which is considerable, and the country.
There if ~"'ou take lllat protection ,vhich I think the the luunufucturer of is another advantage, ,,"hich I ",·ill describe I)eople ought to give-the protection of the as the protection of patriotism, a desire patriotism "\vhich would make them desire to bu~" Canadian goods; and if on top of all whicb ought to exist~ and I hope if it does not exist no,,·,.

in f'eople.
in f'eople.

and it is to ..-ucourage hOlue inc1ustI'~" ,,,,,hich nearly ah,·a~"s there IS a considerable lueasure of incidental protection, I sa:\"', that in ev"ery legitilllate IUUIluer.
)"OU have given the that at several forined by gen"lt~lllen ,,,,,110 (,~llne before us luanufacturer of Canada a fair chance to a urging th~ retention of tariff~ !i'Ve, and there is no reason ,vhy he should that one of difficulties under Dot Ih'e anti prosper and flourish under such the great ,vhich the~· laboured was that the question arises as to ho,v of Canada ","'ould not buy Canadian goods, the people of Canada had prejudices far ,ve shall be able to appl~r at once~ or at that actuall~r' an earlr da~~~ these principles of tariff re against.
Canadian forlu,vhich ,,·e have in the past declared preferred 'Ve have heard it ~llll un'Yilling ,ve ,\"jshed to carry out.

l:ope~ Sir~ it to b€'lieve that it is true~ but I gh·e it to th~ stated at tillles.

that ,ve should hllmediately I-Iouse as I receh"'ed it Oll the testimony of undertal\:e to bring in a radical free trade the protected Dlanufacturers of this country tariff.

,ve gen commission.

erally bear that observation.

not frolll free tariff ,vho came before our 'Yell.

Sir.
Sir.

if that !las been the result of the traders.

not frolu friends of the Liberal imagine a party, but frOlIl hon.

g(\ntlenH:~n who sit on National "Polic~·, I can hardl:r lHore ~evere arraigull1ellt of that policy.

If the other side of the House, ,yho are not after eighteen :rears of encouraging l11anu- supposed to be free trnders.

and ,vho are ,,~ere not supposed to be friends of the Liberal factures by all kno"\vn to the ingenious I?inallce l\Iinisters: party.
IIo,Yever~ these gentlemen kindly if after ~ utl(lertake to tell us.

that in vie\v of this.

that of the Conservative Government; eighteen years of boasting that this ,,:ras in-l and the otber thing, it is our duty to bring deed the golden era of Canadian patriotism; Ido,,"n at once a tariff based upon free trade.

if 'lye have to recognize it as a fact that the I No luan who e\"er spoke in the naUle of the people.

of Canada to-day have no faith.

in ,Liberal party of.


Canada~ ever announced CanadIan to adopt have against theIn, and 3ctuall:r prefer the goods!

the principles of free trade to that extent.

of foreign nations.

then I say, it is a start- I'Ve never found in the old motherland, liug result to the Xational Policy.

It is just!

,,"ben they had to deal ,vith the sallIe ques a that they at once came dO'Yl1 to the possible that if the people could not be in- I tion.
dueed -to bu~1' Canadian goods under a high Ibasis of the lo,v taxation ,,"bich the~" reached tariff polic:y, perbaps ,ve may induce them to j in later :rears.

But, Sir, ,ve have an oppor buy Canadian goods under a policy ,,"'hich Itunity of calling SOllIe witnesses on this looks to moving in the direction of a lower i point.

,veIl remeluber that imll1ediately I tariff.

lve have ever~" reason!


after the last elections in 1896, the I:.Jondon to hope that that ,,,"ould be the result of any 1 " Times" in a very able article on this ques changes that \vas unreusonable other matters ,ve have found in this House, !to suppose~ and that nobody should suppose.

that coercion failed where conciliation suc-!

that the Canadian elections ceeded, and if you have not been able to!
111USt of necessity lead to the in1meuiate make tbe Canadian people buy Canadian Iadoption of a free" trade policy.

..:\fter some goods by .i\.ctS of Parliament designed to lobservations on the subject.

the "Times" compel .

Let us admit a little of the free air of com- l petition into the manUfacturing indust:ies i The present generation has grown up to mana of our country.

Let us make the m8:Dufac.. !

hood under a protective system.


The conditions turers feel system are unknown, and Mr. ducts to the people of Canada, not because I Laurier's Administration will do much, it, by there'is a law on the Statute-book to oblige I cautious and tentative beginnings, it can bring the people to buy them but because the I about an intelligent reconsideration of much that articles themselves are ~ood and because I has b~en taken for granted.

If :Mr. Laurier's it means t .


s an on ~ elr mer) s - rrespectIvc that in so far as experiment is possible, the way they wi will be prepared for a change in the fiscal system of any National PolIcy.

feel therefore, Sir, that we can say to ot Canada, when such a change shall have be.. the manufacturers of the country, that they come demonstrably profitable to the community.

let us try some other war· l spoke as foll01,,"8 :- that they should sell theIr pro-l of any other In i tlon.
pointed out that it ) acceSSIon to power means anything, ,,'e ,vere gOing at one ste,J) \ve are able to make.

prejudIce that the result of luethods h .

~ goods them, that that feel and 11 !t d a I I .

i Mr.

FIELDING.

1105 l.A.PI{II.

22, 1897J 1106 But I allude to Lord Farrer, I may quote an-!

tal~ing their risks.

'l'he '" Times" is supposed to be a tolerably Xov,·, the luanufacturers kne,,· of this.
and in the principles of English the~· luust have kno,vn that \vhen they put firm believer free trade as intelligentl~:- applie<.1 to an~r: their luoneS' into these factories the;y ,,'ert.~ 'rhere ,,,,as a speculati \"'e ~olonial condition.

\vho is even more; elenlent in this whole Kational Polic)· busi other English writer marked as an exponent ~f free trade prin- jliess, and the Iuen ,,"110 pIns the g:Ulle and ,vhose free i gather in the 1\T innings ought to be prepared, ciples.
trade views will hardly be questioned by: ,,-hen the turn of the tide COllles.

to I>a~· th\~ In a recent pamphlet Lord Far· i losses and try to look pleasant..

Therefore, an:r one.

!

I 8a~·, if it suited the people of Canada, as rer SHSS : ll'epresentetl by this Parlhuuent and hS' this ,!he colonIes nlust, ~or some tIme at a~y rate, : (';'O\~ernlnent.

to strike ont of the liscal poli~v' \",;.. ~\ el~ ,e~tIoe of protec- : ~.L Again, no reasonable free trader wishes to see : t~Oll, the protect!
:e Interests ,vouid haye ~o a systelll of protection which has been in force: r~gllt to cCluplaln.

'l'hey had taken thplr for years, and under which industries of various!

rIsk, and they should be prepared to :.lbhl~ kinds hav~ grown up, abolished at a single blow.

: the consequences.

But, Sir, ""'hile that \youid i Le stern justice, unfortunately there is 110 Sue?

a step would be b?th.

unjust and unwise.


,\ hat free traders deSIre IS a much more mod- ~ dispostion on the part of this Governmeilt raIse revenue by dutIes, and these dutIes can: p.. C. hardly fail to some extent, protective.

t -_-1... ~ ll~S c.luaua " . '

cr ~ to be, • '1 .

?

_ . '

.

.

.1 • erate and safer course.

i to de~troY-- 0 ,\; .. " and :\... Ir'.

great SOBle hone :\IE:\IBERS.

'The )ILNISTER OP PIX...\.XCE.

Ileal' bear.


• Scoundrels They wish to see the colonies abandon protec- : tiOll a.s a theory: and gradually r~duce ~he most I ohnoxIOUS of theIr present protective duties_ T·his : E·:"o~r'IEI~.. would probably, by increasing importation itself, reductions increase re\"enue, and make further possible.

Gradually the ,~olonies would thus ap- ~coUIHlr,~ls sJ-lla11.
proach, and ultimately attain, the state of things which obtains in the United Kingdom, without undue saerifice of revenue~ and without injustt"ce to ~xisting interests.

But it is out of the ques tion to do this except C1.utiously· and by degrees, as indeed it was done in this country_ This is what we nlay hope for under the new regiIl1e in Canada.

)r~" hOll.

friends opposite are in snell an aluiable frame of mind that they venture to applaud before I 110.ve finished the sentence.
They are ver:\" happy in being able to anticipate ,,-hat ,ve thinl~.

I sa~?

there is no disposition 011 the part of this GOyerluuellt to deal ,vith These views have a practical bearing on the the lllunufacturing and protected elasses in question of how far we may go in the direc- that spirit, although I do SUbUlit that if it I hale sometinles heard suited the view of the majority of the peo tion of tariff reform.

the expression used, that the manufacturers pIe of Can~l(la to adopt a policy which had.
vested rights in these matters.

I wish ,,'ould sinlpl~· reverse the principle of pro to protest against such an expression.

X 0 tectioll and establish free trade, '\vhile it ·manufacturer has 'any Yested right tincler Blight be and ,voull1 be a dangerous thing the Nartional Policy.

Every man ~"bo invested if done at once, so far as the protected in a dollar under the Xational PoUC)" did so terests are concerned, thes' ,,·~ould have no ,vith his e~yes ,,"ide open to certain hnport- ,ye ant facts.
He ,vas ,,"ell a~"are that frOlll j are dealing ,vith more than the protected the beginning do,vn to the end, the National!

interests of the manufacturers.

The eyil Policy ~"as condemned by one of the great: of protection, like most other evils.

is ,,"hl~­ political parties in Canada.

He was welll reaching in its influences, antI it has h6 aware that every effort had to be put forth!

COllIe so blended and inter,voven ,vith tIla if ,ve should at influence.
and such influ- Ibusiness of Canada that by governmental ences as the manufacturers thenlSelyes are i teillpt to strike it do,,"n to-daJ", w:,e should in order to obtain from the Ido harlll not only to the protected interests, ,veIl a,yare of, public an apparent endorsement of to policy.

not direct1r nt no time from the beginning of this ques·1 connected ,vith the protected interests.

It tion to the present day, bas there ever been I ,,"ouldbe folly not to remember that.
\\·e a substantial majority of the people of Can-l are dealing not ,,,,Uh the protected mallufae looking at the question on its merits, I turers only, but tbat the interests of labour ada, who believed in the prin.ciple of high pro-!

11ave to be considered as \vell as the in tection.
'Ve have to remember brought about the election of a majority of that the trade of the country is so permeated Juembers \"ho supported that policy, but at b~" this system that, in the matter of bank.. all events I can .say~ that from the beginning ing alone, there are vast interests associated I hesitate not to say of the discussion to the end, party of Canada-ahva~l's a great party, I that if we should to-day, by some rash nearly always one-half the people, and in step, do that "Thich some bon.
gentlemen more recent days very llluch luore than one- say we ate bound to do, but which intelli the people-placed thelllselves upon gent men know we are not bound.

to do, half record as cond.euuling the prInciples of the and.

would not do, we would not only break the National Polic~~.

.A.ccidental circumstances doubtless Iterestsofcapital.

that I ,,-hich have no claiul upon us, but I would be justified in sa:ring that I other do,,"'n the nlanufacturing interests of the Liberal I \vith this question.
,vhatever to complain.

But, Sir, interests ,vhich right are 1107 lCO~J)IONS] 1108 - - - - - - - - .

- - - - - - - - Dlake us tired.

Some bon.

i\IE~lBEn,S.

Order, order.

country, but we ,,"ouid deal a blow to other per way to secure such a treaty.

Ho,yever that may be, we were disposed to believe interests of a ,vider and more serious char- tl~at the <lay was close at hand \vhen InOl'e acter.

.

friendl~" relations ,,,"ouid be established be :\11'.

:F'OSTER.
:F'OSTER.

Oh, come to the point-you' t,veen the people of the great republic to the south of us and the people of Canada.

the present inuications are Unhappily, Sir, that the ~\lnerican people-if we may judge by the action of their House of Representu- tives-have changed their nlinds on that If ,,~e lllay take the expression questioD.
of that flouse as being a fair exposition of the vie"ws of the .L\.meric:lll people, spealdng not ,,~ith reference to any particular article the tariff~ but speaking gellen111y~ the of people of the United States appear no,," lIit; l~osell to adhere to the polic~r of protection.

:\lr.

}Ic~{ILL..:\_N.

1)0 not let this moment of ,veakness put ~"ou into such a rage.

Ifo,,!

'ever~ The l\fINISTEH, OF l?INANCE.

If I were quite clear as to lvhat point IllY hon.


friend ,,"ishes lue to COine to at once, I am not sure that I ,vould not be pleased to gratif~" bin}.

I ,,"ish to say, and to em phasize the fact, that it has never been the policy of the Liberal party, as declared by any member of the Liberal part~,.

occup~"ing a responsible position, they came into if po,ver, to destroy at one movement aU the manufacturing industries, or to so change 'Ve are the polic~" as to place thenl in peril.
,,-HUng to be tried by the policy of the Lib· eral party as plainl~" understood~ but ,y~ are not ~"illing to be tried by the Liberal policy as expounded by hone gentlemen on the other side of the House.

tariff reform.

No,,,",,, Sir, I have referred to-day to cer tain conditions which have altered, and.

I The con ,,"ish to spea.k brietl:r of these.

llarty ,vas held in vention of the Liberal tlH~ cit~,.

of Otta.w'a in the lllonth of June.

1893.


At that tim(} ,YC had ever~:- ren.Ron to believl~ that the people of the neighbouring ropnblic !lad resolved to enter upon a mort:; liberal trade policy.

.A.

fe,v Dlonths before that date n. presidentIal election had takeu place in tbe United States, in which the ir,sue of tariff refOrll1 ,,'as ~romlnent; and.
,,·hat~Yer may be said of tll(~ matter :n vie\v of later events, in the light of that day it (lid seem clear tha.t the people of the United States had resolved to enter upon a polie;,r 'l"h~ Democratic part~r.

of 'which had just entered upon pO"rel'.

were at that very tilne engaged in propounding their policy of the JllOluent was opportune for us to plaCe on r(-'cord in the clearest and most enlphatie ".

ay our desire.
ay our desire.

as representing a great varty in Canada, to c:::rry out a policy of tariff reform, and particularly to extend~ trade relations with the if possible, our Ileigb~ouring republic, if they ,vere disposed tc.

reCIprocate.

'I.

'here was m.ore than the aetion of the Democratic party to encourage us in the bE·lief that something could be dotH~ in that direction.

Before that time the Re publican party, ,,~ho ,"'ere in power.
pledged as they w€:re in the main to a high protec tive polley, had qualified theit- adhesion to protection by a declaration in favour of reciprocity treaties; and we bad reason to believe.

and did believe, that even ,vitb thfa Republican party in power it would be pos sible to obtain a reciprocity treaty with _the United States if steps were taken in a Pl'O- tflliff, r3fol"11l.

thought '\'Ve Mr.

FIELDING.


to the fact I believe that some of us fn Canada luake the lllistal\:e of itllagining- that our neighbours franH~ their tnriff cllietl~· ,,"ith reference to how" Canada ,,-ill act and ,,-hat effect it ","ill have on Canada.

It may be Yer~T flattering to Canada to think that; but I rather think that the:\:o franle their tariff ,vith reference to the ,,"orid at large, and that a Yer~" mo derate part of their attention is din:cted to "hat is taking place in Canada.
Though I belie,e that some parts of the Dingle~r Bill ,vere Inade to suit the interests of certairj people ,"""ho feared Canadian cOInpetition, I do not think \""e ought to assume tbat it is Silllply a nleasure of hostility to'wards the think it only fair to people of Canada.

I Jnention that leading pnblic tnen in the L~llited States have intiIuatecl to filen on this side of the line that ,vllile the Rellublican party feel bound to uphold the !

)ingle:r Bill.
)ingle:r Bill.

they do not of necessity nlean to refuse to enter into improved trade relations with Canada.

On the contrary, it has been urged that that is part of their policJ7 , and they that ,vhen the late ~Il·.

point Blaine ,vas in po,ver, though a high protec tionist.

be was disposed to negotiate reci procity treaties with a.ny countrIes ,vhich were disposed to deal with the United States.
But ,vhile I think there is some ground for hoping for an imprOyelnent trade relations ,vith the United States.

,ve cannot but recognize the fact that the IHngle~" Bill, ,,~hate,"'er the motive of it may have been, and I do Dot question the motive.

"rill una (}oubtedly, if it becomes law"-,vhicll seems highly probable, although I think it will be amended in some particulars-affect the trade relations betw'een Canada and the United States to a very considerable degref~.
,,:oe feel that "re are justi III view of that.

fied in stopping to think what would be the effect of our policy if to-day, ,,"hile on ihe eve of negotiations on the subject of reci procity:-if ..A..lllerican al-e in negotiate-we ,villing reduce ndvance such down our I belie ve that there is nothing inconsistent with sound free trade principles in a Gov in dealing \vlth a ernment endeavouring, to hold in its hands whatever neighbour, negotiations, to friends should.

low figurt~s.
low figurt~s.

in our tariff to of our 1110 [.A_PltIL 22, 1897] 1109 ==================================;.==========---_.- .

":-=-..~:':_.::...
":-=-..~:':_.::...

:::::::':':"'.- ._- .... ---_.._ - - - - - - - - it But 'l'·e submit reason ,vh~~ the Dingley Bill on ticati011, SUCll, exists three or four strands higher, to their own interests, we have the right levers it may possess in the negotiations; to frame our policy witb a single e~"e to and I say so to-day, not in the spirit of re- taliation, because I t:ay, Sir, that ,,'e ought wihat ,,"e believe to be our interests.
There Dot to retaliat~ upon the United Statc~ in fore, while we say to our American breth There are ren that ,,"e will nat yield to this spirit of the way some people advocate.
retaliation which is in the air, and for which men, ",-ell meaning men, in Canada-Libe- there is, perhaps, very considerable ju.sil rals, some of them, let us admit-who sa~' that we should meet 'Yl1ile ,ve are not ,,~illing to put the principle of an eye for an eye, a tooth up the barbed '"\vire fence "rhich already for a ·tooth, and a dollar for a dQllar.
there is the demand of many men in Canada to- I is no particular ,ve should This leads to the , day, but we submit it would not be ,vise I take it down to-day.

to adopt 'that policy.


'Ve submit that it is ' conclusion that we must be prepared to deal a wiser policy to ,vait and see what shall with tbis question from the point of view be the outcome of the present uncertainty of having one tariff for the countries 'which in the United States in relation to their are willing to trade with us and a different trade policy and of ,the negotiations which tariff for the countries "'hich nre not.
80 far ,\ye are Willing to enter into with respect::iS onr tariff has relation to tho8e countriei~ to reciprocity.

that pending; ,vhich have no particular desire to trade ,,"e recognize that there are in it such negotiations and pending the settle-; with us, ment of the American tariff question and a : SOllie items of sufficient importance to jus ,,,,ill be tlle; tify us in making reductions.
not to please clear understanding of what effect '\vhich their policS may have upon the foreign countries, but to please ourseIYe~.

is the part of pru- There are things '\ve ,vant to buy from for affairs of Canada, dence that we should to-day hold our hands eign countries, and our desire to obtain these and not extend to that country the mea-!
things on fair and reasonable terms is para· sure of tariff reform which ,,"e would be \ mount to every other consideration in deal anxious to eA~end if they ~vould meet us; ing \vith the tariff question.

But with the : exception of these articles to ,,,,hich I shall on liberal lines.
there are those who sa.y that if \ve ~ refer as I proceed, I have to tell the House ,,1th the tariff in its' that it is not the intention of the Goyern do not care to deal the question generally, relations with the United States to-day.

we ment-speaking of ,vith reference to any particular ought not to disturb our existing tariff at and not I have heard it argued rth8Jt w'hat we, article-to propose any great reduction in all.
s·hould do is to let our own tariff stand I the tariff as applied to ,those countries whicll as it is to-day.

'Ve to have a general tariff, l..'he Liberal pnrty has pledged propose~ tberefore t doctrine.

itself to give tariff reform, and the country and that general tariff ,,"'ill be~ to a large that extent, the tariff of to·day-but the tariff of expects pledge.
And if the events across the bor- to-day freed from SOUle of its enormities~ del' have taken such a course as to justify freed from some of the injustices of ,vhicb us in withholding action in relation to our freed from man)" of trade with that country, that is no reason the specific duties, freed from the· conflicts, vrhy ,ve should not proceed to deal with annoyances and irritation ,,"hich haye cre tariff reform in its relation to those COUD- ated ,,"ar between the importer and the eus toms authorities-the tariff of to-day,in that tries which are prepared to deal with us.
We are prepared to declare 1:0 this House sense, but not the tariff of to-day exactl~", and the world, th~t "we will trade with those for it all the eyils I people, whoever they may be, who are will- speak of.

it is certainly not the tariff ~vhich ing to trade "\vith us.

We do it as individ- hon.

gentlemen opposite favour.


We pro uals with our neighbours; we would buy \ po~e to ad()pt a general tariff't and then "re from the neighbour who is willing to buy l propose to adopt a special tariff having l'e ,\\That is a nation but a combina- j ference to the countries which are desirous from us.

trading "rith us; and as a m·atter of tion of many thousand individuals?

And if!

of an individual would be justified in dealing!

course.

not by- the ~·ith the neighbour who wants to trade with I resolution.
but by the condition of affaIrs him, why should not tbenation be justified II; 'Yhichex.ists, that preferential tariff gives in adopting the same principle ?

We l'e· preference, above all others t to the products cognize the ·fact that if the Dingley Bill· of Great Britain.

becomes law,· it will have some effect on I Now, ~fr.

Speaker, having thus stated the our 'trade.

We do not complain of It ; we I guiding principles in the matter, I propose have no· right to complain of it.
The A·m- l to invite your attention to the general tariff ; erican people have an undoubted right to and in doing so, I wish it to be distinctly frame :their tariff policy wlth a singleeyeunderstootl that, as I have alre-ad~r explaln to their own interests 7 and we must recog- ed, the duties are considerably higher than nize that without murmur; but they are an we intend they shall be, as applied to CQun intelligent people,and intelligent enough to trh:'s \",lliel) are ,villing to trade 'Yith n~.
recognize the fact that if they have the rightIAnd if, as I read the itelIls, hon.

gentlemen I cannot'subscribe to that are not disposed to trade ,,·ith us.
the Liberul party to· fulfil the express words of the people complain, if :rou rel110Ve frolll their polley with a sl~gle eye think that the rate upon any of them is too to frame : 1111 r.COl\Il\IONS.l 1112 to believe that before I high, 1 beg tllelll Ale, beer and porter, when imported in casks close I 'shall have something to say which or otherwise than in bottles, 16 cents per gal.. will show that in respect of our relations 1011.
'Yith Great Bdtain and in respect of our I The duty on this remains unchanged.

And if I am not to relations ,,,lth any otber country that is will- 'I I I will only log to meet us on equal terms, we shall be weary the House ,vith details, prepared to offer :a measure of tariff reforlll mention those duties that have been changed of the ']llost substantial character ,vhich is: There are no changes until we come to ,,~hich are increased not contained in this tariff going to read.

'Yith these ol>seryations,!


'by 15 cents a gallon-I would remind hone I no,," beg to invite your attention to the meulbers that l'anl dealing with the customs rates of duty in the general mriff.

\vhich I am Ithe duty on spirits, think I should say !that, duties now.

l\fay I take the Sir CHARLES TUPPER., The hone gentleman ,yill liberty of asking my bOll.

friend (~lr.

Field-!llaVe to read the items to ge11:helll in ~'Han­ ing) tence.
if he 'Yill Idnlll~r repeat I The ~IINISTEIt OF l~IN...-\XCE- I am I Ale.

beer and porter, when imported in bottles forgotten it m~rself'l (six quart.

or 12 pint bottles to be held to COIl'" afraid I If the hone gentleman (Sir Charles ~~upper) tain one gallon), 24 cents per gallon.

",'ould state rthe point-- The :.\IIKISTER OF FIX..:-\.NCE.

the last sen- i sard."

1\11'.

FOSTER.

llave 'alulost th'e cents per 1 I Cider.

not clarified or refined, gallon. )

I .# ' .


• 1 0 h ~ • C~der, .cl~rified 01" r~fin.e~, 10 cent.s per ~allon.

Sir CHARLES TUPPER.

The point ,vas !

LlJ~e.

JUice and fruIt JUIces, as to the mode in ,v'hlch the hone gentle-l fortified WIth or : coutalntng lIot more than twenty-five per cent .
man lutende I I of proof spirits, 60 cents per gallon; and when understand, he IS ·about to st3Jte to the House I eontailling more than 25 per cent of proof spirits, lllodified by some subsequent-- • • b ~o hal e t e tarlu., w hIe , d ' ' ' ' I $2 per gallon.

I The ~fINISTER OP I~INAXCE.

I thank i ~lr.

l\1.0r\r.rAGUE.

'Vhere there are ~huo~ges I i I ~a.ke It t~lle bOll..gentlelnan C~\ll'.

FIeldIng) speaking, ems, even" ,vehave thought III relatIon to a special j I.. e :\11'.
1~"OSTEIL if Ollf~ \yere beginning fr<Hll There 'llcrease in the spirit duties all alooO' '0 ' 1 .e the hon.

gentleluan for reminding ·me.

stated that the tariff thrut 1 Uln about 1.0 I ,vIll mentIon the fact.

re3;~ .

to Y?U is the ge~eral tariff?

bU~ .that I TIle ~II~Isrl'ER OJ1-' E"l~.A~CE.

before I conclude, ~ shall.


be prepared ito I 's all llluke a statement tariff :that ,vill 'apply to Great Britain and OJ the hne of I.., cents per ~al 011. any other country ,vhich is prepared to :iC- Mr. ~IOK".r...-\.GUE.

spolie gen("rall~· to cept the conditions that that tariff imposes.

i suggest that the hone gentleluan should men ~~~ me say,.

Sil~, :tha:t !~h~ clas~ificati~n of i tion ,vhen changes occur.

~o~ds.

that ~ ~ ha.ve III thIS tarlfI doe:5 ll?t I '~er~" l.~he l\IIXISTER O:F !1"IXi\XCE.
~aJ~erl~lly diff~r from ~he f?rm o~~ t?e ;arl~ I good.

I am in the judgment of the House, ,'hlch IS now In force, that IS to sa~o., "here i but it seems to me that if I aln to read all the late Government gathered goods Into one j th it h' . '

" it i class for convenience, en no c anges occur ,,"'ell, generally 'l'he hone gentleman might to follo\v that I 1.

'bereis nn advantage llleution the item by nUll1ber and tell ,,"'he llletllod of grouping.
and perhaps some disadvantage ther there isa change or not.

Has the hone p(~rlulI.~.

also, in h:.1xing a very elaborate tariff.

Un- gentleman the numbers there, as in the pre llouhtedly.

r.rhe l\IINIS'rER OF :F'IN.A.XCE.

Not ex- bl'giuuinp:.

hp \yould llul.ke a t:ll'itl": thn-t \vonld be mucb simpler than the present one.
.A.s one of our ne,,·spaper ''''Titers very happily actly; the numbers ,,,ill not quite corres- pond, and in some cases the hone gentle said, a DIan 'yho underta.kes to remodel a lunD (:\lr.

Foster) ,Yould not get lunch help find it so ~asy and satis- house ,,"ill not factory 'a job as lif he had the Ol)pOr,tUl1it~l from the reading of the ntlll1ber.

"re have to build from Itbe foundation.

to adapt ourselves to ourcondi,tions.

I ,vould be an advantage in one Spil'ituo~:J or.


alcoh~li~ liquors distilled from think it "'RV to havefe,ver itelns in the taritT.

But any ~naterlah 01 C0!1talnlng or compounded from or WIth distilled spIrits of any kind or any mix- the evIl of multIphctty of Item'S lS not so ture thereof with water-- great rates; and ,,"e hOllet!hat on investigation I 1.
'he item reads substantially as in the pre of our 1:ariff it ,,~ill appear that we have, sent tariff, and the duty is $2.40 per gallon, to ·a certain extent, removed this difficulty instead of $2.25 as at present.

Spirits and strong "~teJ.


'ls of any kind, by gathering fa numbel· of items of a like character and bringing them under one rate.l section B of thIs item, J2.40 per gallon and 'hnprovement 30 per cent Probabl:r instead of '$2.25 and 30 per in this direction, but has been done to make the tariff more con- I Al'Coholic perfumes remain the same, .50 venient and more simple.
The first item is : I per cent when in bottles or f1asks, contain.. if you can avoid a multiplicity Of', Lime juice and other fruit syrups and fruit juices, n.o.p., 20 per cent ad valorem.

,\\'e hope sonlething cent.

't'here is room for the sent tariff 'j .

.

.

.__ .

.

.

~.

rh 0 • 0 Mr.

FIELDING.

1113 [...-\PRIL 22, 1897J 1114 --.- .- ---.---_.- , • OJ • S • • ~ .

• • \.. no 1 .

t-.h 1 ' " ~ to refer.

At present Nitrous ether, that a new ·tern?'


ing not more than four oz., and when inIfree list except in the case of corn for the &e., remain the same as at present.

This class o!

products are imported I .

!

~Ir.

FOS".rER.

But you do Vermouth containing not more than 30 per ·sweet spirits of nitre and ,vhich I ought bottles and flasks containing more than four purpose of distillatipn ,vhich, under regula.
oz., $2.40 per gallon and 40 per cent, 1n-1 tions to be Blade by the Governnlent, is still stead of $2.25 per gallon and 40 per cent to pay the same duty of 7% cents.

~rhere is also one other item in that large class to as 'at present.

the aromatic spirits of 'amnlonia, $2.40 per gal- 'I duty on uncleaned rice is three-tenths of a instead of $2.25 per eent per pound, and 114 cents per pound on Ion and 30 per cent, cleaned rice.

It is the dut~.. on the cleaned gallon and 30 per cent, as at present.
rice \yhich affects the price in Canada; our cent, and ginger wine containing not more peopl ~ do not eat uncleaned rice.

\Ve 111ake than 26 per cent of proof spirits, 90 cents no change in the duty on the cleaned rice, per gallon, instead of 80 cents 'per gallon, but ,ve do make a change in the dut~.. on the 'Ve sa~" that instead of re and if containing lllore than these percent-I ra\v nlaterial.

I ceiving the raw nlaterial at three-tenths of ages, $2.40 per gallon, instead of $2.25.
~Iedicines or 'medieated ,vines containing I a cent, they should pay ~4 of a cent.

The not more than 40 per cent of proof spirits, Ifact is that while the dut~· on cleaned ric~ I remains the same.

although the price ,,"ill $1.50 per gallon.

',I..lot be incr~ased to the consumer, the manu- I faeturer ,vIll have to pa~" a larger price for II his 1"a":,, nlaterial, and that increase will go into the public treasury.

~{r POSTER I ..

The ~IINISTER OF Ii'IN.A.NCE.

Yes.


'Vines of all kinds except sparkling wines, Champagne and wines generally remaIn Ithe food.

c eapen unchanged.

I I The :\II~ISTEIt Ol~'" FIN.AXCE.

Well, we k~r.

:E OSTER.

1:ax the poor man S "hIS- !

cheapen a gOQd Inan~" things in this tariff, !

but ,ve have to have a little regard ~or the The lIINISTER Ol~' li"IN.A.~CE.

My hon.!

revenue in order to meet the obligations of friend's sympathy for the poor man on ac- 11i1~" p~·edecessor.
\Ve pass on to the class count of his ,vhisky is, of course, exceed- I of articles kno,vn as fish and fish products; ingly interesting.

The next section relates Iand as the~e ramain substantially the same, to animals, agricultural and animal pro-\ I ,,·ill not detain the I-Iouse by readin~ them.

Illu~inat~ng oil~ bring~ us t?

the item of ducts.

largely from the UnIted States, and we I coal OIl.


1:here IS no Item In the tariff for freer I,,·hieb bas discussed in the think that pending negotiations trade relations with that country, we should I House.

I think there is a very strong de leave these items largely unchanged.

There!

sire in the House to have a very consider I ab~e reduction made in this item, and it are.

ho"rever, a fe,,'" exceptions to that.

In the case of corn, we place it on the I has been our desire to grant a reduction.
the purpose of dis- i, We are free to say that in view of the re !

presentations made that we are not dispos Flour is reduced from 75 cents to 60 cents Ied, or do not feel warranted in going in per barrel, and '\yheat from 15 cents per I that direction so far as we would like to 'Ve reduce the dut;r on coal oil one bushel to 12 cents 'per bushel.

fuel which is cf:~nts.

We propose to abolish tIle regulation 'If no,v 3 cents will be 2lh cents.
Barrels con which permits the grin(ling of corn in bond I taining 'petroleum remain at the same rate system 120 per cent.

We propose to make another for has bEen the cause of.

Yer~r consideral)le Ichange, which is especially sought· by the It has been represented to us Itrade, and that is to abolish the restrictions ccmplaint.

impossible for gentlemen I that no'\v exist in regard to, sale from tank that it is almost engaged in the milling industry to subscribe I vessels.
If the trade desire to use tank to the affidavit "rhich they are required to I Y(\ssels.

there is no reason\vhy dealers take in order to obtain the necessary rebate.

I· should not be permitted to do so.

Lubri~at­ lug oils reulain unchanged, at 20 per cent.

By the law as they now stand, they are sUll- J:osed to, pay duty on the corn, and then, I Olive oil, now 30 per cent, is reduced to 20 upon evidence, or upon affidavit, that theyi per cent.
ground the corn for use as human food, I In rega.rd to bituminous coal, we do Dot tbey are entitled to have a rebate of 1)9 per propose at this stage of the tariff measure cent of their duty.

It is alleged that when to ma){e any reductions in the duties on a miller has sold corn for human food, he coal.
Reference was made some tim~ ago in is not ina position to follow it through the this House to certain observations I made is always in l\lontreal in replying to a dep1.1ta:tion re country and guarantee that t'sed for human food.

The same thing has presenting- re the coal ("ccurred with regard to seed eOll'D.

in this corn was admitted free~ and it is alleged House sitting opposite as an exceptional that that privilege has also been abused.
'\Ve course to adopt in anticipa simplify the matter by putting corn on- the tion· of the Budget, Dlake a statement on Corn meal, 25 cents per barrel instead of 40 I cent.

Crude petroleulll Seed ~arded by many bon.

members free Ust, except for tillers.

so-called hllmanfood.

that I should, interest.

It was lllore' '.rhat been I do.

for it 1115 [COl\Il\10NS] 1116 I !I The that I be- repeat I do not undertake 11'1~.A..)\CE.

dut~~ on coal.

their dut~\ I bon.

~IE~IBEH.


in remoying doubts I have strong hopes that aUti misunder- at 4U cents per ton.

I quite realized at the moment Ipoint.

.A.ll ""hitne'\" '" .


)lIXIS1'ER 011-' I that subject, not exactly a statement per-I I believe that American public men are haps as to the amount of duty to be ill- I at this moment .reconsidering their action in posed, but a statement sufficiently plain to Iregard to the duty on coal, and ,vhatever indicate the lines on which ,,~e ,vould pro- Ithey may do in relation to their general require to enter fully into ll'olic~r, there is reasonable probability that ceed.
action on this the circumstances under which I made that!

they \vill reconsider their I have strong hope, amountIng to statelnent.

in the end they will re that I Ulust SUbUlit to some misunderstand- !

expectation, ing prevailing as to nlY action, but we feell uuce the duty proposed in the Dingley Bill assured that the '\visdom of the policy pur- I to 40 cents per ton, ,vhich is the duty in stated in to-day.
'be in due the American tariff sned br the GOyerUUlent "\vill ~lontreal, and I repeat no,,', that it is the course vindicated before the Hous~.
I be- lieV'e it ,,'as in the interest of all concerned desire of the Goyernment to reduce the I stated at that time that if that certain doubts and misunderstandings "'hich existed at \Vashington in regard to Ithe American Governnlent \vould leave the the position of Canada on the coal question duty at 40 cents pel" ton, instead of increas I iug it to 75 cents as proposed in the Ding- should be removed.

P:Vticularly Mr. i Ie)!'


Bill, our Gover~nlent \vere prepared ~o Ilueet them on that hne and reduce our dUtj" that state- to lueet the Inent 110\"'.

lieve that statement served a useful pur-,' Americans will eventually settle their duty If placed at 40 cents, pose duty standings.

In ~ova Scotia.

I be nUllle.

40 cents per.

ton, .and I have strong Sir CH.A.RLES '.rUPPER.

thIS WIll be the end of The :\fI~ISTER ~11" Fli'...~~CE.

I mus~ Ithe Inatter.


But I think in the interest of trade of the Dominion we should say that I am surprIsed the hone leader of I the coal the Opposition should have the courage to Inot act to-day on the assumption that the mention Nova Scotia.

I was disposed to be I change will be made, and so, haVing clearly exceedingly good, nice and gracious in the and distinctly stated that "re are ready to reduce our duty to 40 cents if the American Juatter, and neyer mention the \yords.
N.o,," that the hone gentleman has called attention duty remains at that figure, we propose to to the subject, I suppose it ,vill be in ord~r defer action and see what they are going to sa~r tbat something happened in Nova I to do about it.

I quite realize the possibility three da.ys ago.

The hOD.

I thn t the Americans will not be in a position Scotia tw'O or gentleman is not ~o proud of Nova Scotia Ito deal with the question, or at all events as he used to be In the old days.
But so; lllay not deal \vith it.

before our tariff Bill far as !he interruption imputes t?at my re- Igops through that should the House.

marks In ~lontreal were made WIth any re- i prove to he the fact we ,vould be prepared gard to No,a Scotia elections, or after any to come down to the House and make a communication had with the Nova Scotia I further statement in relation to the coal 1 Government, I haye already stated, and if duties.
lyill repeat it, it is important I I. should hke to ask why, is no foundation "thatever for any state- ment of that kind.

However that may be, !

on tbe S3.nl~ p~lnclple, the hone gentleman I believe and the Government belleve that Idoes !lot lualntalll the duty on corn, so as to ,,?as served not only as re- hold It as a set-off later to 'balance the duty a good purpose.

gards the interests of the Dominion but in on barley?
regard to all interests by having that state- ment made in Montreal the Budget speech..

I cannot in anticipation of I' argue that question; there is good and suffi.. .cient reason for pursuing a different policy.

I understood the Min· Scotia elections, which bad been postponed ister of Finance to announce that he pro.. posed to reduce the duty on olive 011 from for the purpose.

l\fINISTER O~' FINANCE.

The:~ IterhC::~;~r2~per cent.

A large quantity Sir CHARLES TUPPER.


And the Nova The ~IINISTER OF Jj"INANCE.

I expeetn.tlons that that there I.. ){r. HUG IlLS: 'VALLACE.

to move that The l\'Ir.

our .

;'!

If . '

• .

..' .

, s,~t p.resent free.

l\:Ir.

FOSTER.

Nova Scotia elections,.

we are told by the Ihe Item at present reads hon.

gentleman were postponed for a pur- I do not know the source of his in- 30 per cent for olive 011 prepared for.. salad pose.

I think the hone gentleman does purposes, ~ll other olive oil is ~ree.
Is the formation.

not know the people of Nova Scotia so well same wordIng used in regard to the propos as he imagines he does; 'but one thing Is ed duty of 20 per cent.

certain.

that Nova Scotia knows a good deal The CONTROLLER OF CUSTO)IS (Mr. about the hon.

gentleman, and voted accord- Paterson).

The item is n.e.B.

20 per cent ingly.

pose for which my statement was made was a purpose having in vle:w the best in- terest8' of the Dominion, as tIme will show.

because olive oil n.e.s.

Is free.


If my hone friend reads It that way he w'ill add 20 per cent to the duty I was about to say, Sir, that the pur- instead of 30.

}Ir.

FOSTER.

Mr.

FIELDING.

1117 lAPRIL 22, 1897J 111~ I think I I can. '

.

it But, al\vays is thiso in the interest not only of The ~IINISTER OF ~"'INANCE.

I is better to have the Idesirable, bas offered to read for me, and if the House i tlons In our own Interest, and not has 110 objection he 'will do so.
in short, I :may say that the nl~· hone friend is luistakell because such is !

policy of the Government They not our intention.

\vrought-iron and It has been represented i have felt that pig-iron, to us "'\\~ith regard to cement that the bar- I scrap-iron, being the base of so Iuany Im equal in !portant manufactures in the country, it was rels of cement are not ,,"eight, and that the duty at so lllucll per hundred pounds.
We i manufacturers, but of the consuming public, have therefore placed the duty at 121;2 cents I tha~ there should be SOllle reduction in tht IdutIes.

Though iron comes from 'our friends per 100 pounds.

:\I~· hone friend tbe Controller of Customs i u:cross.

the bor<ler, ~e have made the reduc to pro- Imote any interest of theirs.

While we have i,thought that OU1".
duty as a Government and I as prudent bUSIness 1uen, required us to those duties which \"'ill give relief genth~lnan's colleague takes up the consider- ; from a heavy burden to many of our manu ation of these items, would he allow me to i facturers, at the same rtime, in order that ,"'hether I understand, that in case Ithe industries engaged in the business of fisk hitl1, the A.Iuerican tariff should be retained at I manufact~ring iron IDay be enabled to go 1 they had be 75 cents on coal as passed by the House Ion.
of Representatives, the hone the Fi- I fore, but ·\ye propose in a measure to COlll nance ~linister intends to carry out his de- !peusate for the \vifhdra,val of the share of claration at ~Iontreal, not only to retain: protection involved in the high duties.

bv the present duty of 60 cents on bituDlinous Igiv'ing them sOllle,vhat larger bounties thai} coal but to iInpose a dut~· on anthracite as i they had before.

well.

)11.

FOSTER.

Sir CHARLES TUPPER.

Before the hOD.


llow'er \",e offer theIn, not "1'hat 11 :None at a .

IIear, hear.

that IT ' I Some hone ~IE:\IBEIlS.

~rh CON'rROLL' , .. e ')0)'" the Government However, without dut~.. on anthracite coal.

r.I:he ~IINISTER OF FIX.-\NCFJ.

debating i ~ut ~ cannot 'help that.

at I gentlemen are some\vhat nmuse{~ at 1r' .

Elt O~ CUSIO~fS.

Hon.

that, I have sImply :told The l\fINIsr.rER OF }1'lIN.A.NCE.

And 1m- I locks, curr~T combs or ~f~- hon.!


friend (Sir Charles Tupper) has llossibly not!

corl'(~ct.ly understood the declaration Montreal.

that.

I ,vill ans,ver his question: that under I~ oUr the tru~h.

.

these circumstances it ,vould be the lnten- I "~ .~om~!ne It~~lS 28?

and --, tion of declaration at I\Iontreal.

the first to carry out my I of ~hICh ''('is at _2% per cent and the other j at HO per cent, and ~ake.

a uniform duty cent.


ThIS Includes builder's Iof 30 per upholsterers, cabinet makers.

Sir CII....!\.RLES '~ru PPER.

And impose a I bard\vare, I carriage hardwares, illCludi:~g buts, hinges, curl"~· cards, horse ,'boots, harne~s and saddlery, n.~.s.

This is lone of those ItenlS several of ",,,,hleh we have that 'Yill make the work at the the request of my hone fEiend I will con-· Custom-bouse very much simpler than it ihas ~itherto been, ~n~ I trust will re~ove tinne reading.

:\lr.

~Ic~EILL.
:\lr.

~Ic~EILL.

Before the hone gentle-j a great deal of 1rl~tlon that.

has eXIsted luan passes a",·as from these items would I among.

so man!

var~ed and !lIfferent rates he kindly say what the 12lh.

cents per 100 on artlcles,WhICh J.?llght be Interpreted by to on a one custom s appraIser to come under one pounds on cement ","'ould amount head, and by another to COine under another barrel ?

head.

The CONTROLLER 011" CUSTO.~IS.

pose a duty on anthracite coal.


Atl,r arranged, .. in this '£he CONTR~LLER QF CUSTOl\IS.

rrhe CONTROLLER OF 'CUSTOl\fS.

The!

Item 277 of the old tariff bore a duty of barrels vary in weight and if a barrel con- I25 per cent ad valorem, while item 345 bore tained 325 pounds it W9uld be somethIng i 35 per cent.

I may say that many of the about 40 cents.

The hone gentleman can i 'articles enumerated list caused Igreat.

difficulty in the matter of app.rais!ng figure that out for himself.
the Controller ,.

and l~ has been represented ~hat dIfferent l\lr.

~fcNEILL.

The bon.

kno\vs there has been considerable dispute I ap~ralsements took place at dIfferent ports, f WhICh, any..gentlem~n can understand is a about the barrels.

I most undeSIrable thIng.


We think we are .In !warranted in combining those two classes the new item It is provided that whether, which the judgment of the House hereto the c~~ment comes in bags or in barrels, the fore thought 'should be divided, one bearing pa ckap:es shall be included in the ,veight for 25 per cent and the other 35 per cent duties.

We combine them to effect the great pnr- duty.

regret pose we have and we make a uniform duty that my hone friend-who you can imagine Jof 30 per cent.
This item Includes, gener.

has had a very great deal of work lately,l ally, cutlery, inctuding carver knives and and ta.ble ~tee18 and ""hose strength has almast glv.en out' forks of steel, butcher to-night-is not able to explain these changes I oyster, bread, kitchen, COOk's, butchers: fiS he would have done it much better than i shoe, farrier, putty, hacking, and glaZier's "rUb regard to the iron duties, I 1119 [CO:\I~l(rNSJ 1120 .

I (HI ,Ye, l~niV'es, ,aloreln.


321j2 per ..-.0 per cent : ,-alorenl and the other and la~p-shears, horse, ~Heldel".· eent ad Y31orelll.

It comprises uxes, sc~..th{~8, 1·-'01' addItIonal ~nmph.fica- .

put nt :\11'.

l'''O~TElt.

Tha't is an increase.

scissors, trimmer's, .

p01'tant b~aring on ..that ~rticle.

kniYe~, cigar spatulas, or palette ~ The COXTRO~LER.OF CUSTO)I~.

H~D.
H~D.

k 've~ razors erasers or office knives, pen, ,gentlelnen OpposIte 'Yl11 also bear III mInd n\.e~' ~rUlll~g sportsman and hunter's that a future announcement will have an im- k~~;es' nlanicur~ files, barber~s, tailor's~ I~~lns ?2.-1 an(~ .42~, 'VhlCh wer~, d.utIabl~ :uul toilet clippers~ and all .h~e cutl~ry, p}at- :at .2~ p~~~ ce~l~, .ure ~ow .made unIform and ed or not, n.o.p.
tion ,ye provide that if any ?f the ar~.lcIe~ ~ the ~ases ; are hllported in cases or cabInet, or cabinets shall be dut~"able at the sarn.e, The CO~TI{OLLElt Ol~ Cl)STOl{S. Yes, In Inan~" cases It, but ,ye luust have revenue from something, r:lte :IS their contents.

,vas fo~nd that a 11lerchant.

,,"ouid pa~· one; and ,,"e al'l~ trriug to get it in as fair tl.

rate of ''duty on wbat ,vas In the.

case nl~(l !

,Ya~"' a~ \ye can in the interests of the coun another rate of dut~.. on the case Itself.
"~ tr,"'.

Tariff itcnls in the old tariff 414 and thought it better to have a unifol'!D l'tlte of '4(;~ are <:ollllJineci.

One ,vas 30 per cent ad cent ad 30 pel' cent.

In iteul 28:3 there is a considerahle !

'ednc- i YalOrl'lll, 3u<1 ,,·e lllalie tbeln both 35 per llligbt explain.

as the tion.

reaping: hooks.

lla~" an?

straw knives,.

hO;~.

,hon.

gentlelnan ,,-ill readil~'" see, that this \vringers, forks.

post dlg'~ers anel.

other a~n- has been done as.

in man~"' other cases.


for cultural jmplement~.

These are nll})1~lnent8 the purpose of simplif~"'ing the tariff very l~se(l upon the farln.

and have heen hItherto.

llluch, and regard is also had to the fact at.

85 per cent; ,ve llav~ redl1c~d ~heln to that the~· arc aliJcles upon ,vllich it ,,-as taking them generally, the~· might 25 per cent.

Lons.

or carbon points of all kinds.

th~ tluty bear n. dutr.


Itelll 413. jeans, sateens and coutnes, was en ,vllich was 2'50 specific per 1,000; l~ave abolished this specific duty _and estab- '25 per cent, and is no,v 30 per cent.

Items lished an ad ,ralorem duty of 3~) per cent.

404 and 405 have been combln£:d. The:}" Then ,ve have an item ,vhich might be con· : ,vere under specific and ad valorem duties, sidered a new item.

The~e are SOIne Yer~·: ,vhich ,vere very high, and which would run large carbons that are beIng used now.
by ; probabl:r up to 50 or GO per cent, and ","'e miners and others, and there Is a very Im-: haTe t'etluced them to an ad valorem basis.

industry, baving a rR?id develop-: 'Ye llaye given them the highest rate of portant Inent.

in our country.

It was dIfficult under: duts, 1 think, that ,ye maintain in the tariff t the old tariff to determine what the rate of : and ,,-e have tbem at a uniform rate of think t~ey have come' 35 per cent ad valorem.

duty should be.
duty should be.

largely into use since the tarIff was fraulert.

invite the a t tllerefore, we have taken tention of hone members is the old tnriff Recognizing that.

th(:)nl-~fronl the list of elect~ic !ight ca.rbo~~.
Henl 4:.1';-: •• Yarns, composed ,vholly or in and on aU carbons over SIX Inches In CIt - part of "·001, worsted, hair of the the eUluference, and with a view to the use alpaca, goat or other like animal, costing ,,,hich is made of them, we have reduced ~O cents per pound 'and under, °cents per Item 357 ,,"'as electrIc hght car- .

thought.

~Ir MILLS • Item 401 under the old that the duty 15 per cent ad valorem.

dut~· to 15 per cent ad valorem.


'Ye eombine t.ariff items 401 and 402.whieh haxe for pound find 20 per cent ad valorem.." We reasons ,,,,hieh we thought good reads U cotton fa.brics, white or gray, bleach- and in the interest of the.

country reduced I ed or unbleached."

law was dutiable·at 22th per cent and item suppose the combined duties before would 402 was 25 per cent, and we make them probably anlount to over 30 IJef ,cent.

1."lh!

both dutiable at 25 percent.


this change- will no doubt be legalized rob- given 'YheD the item comes up for dis- Hear bear this is a " cU8sion.

rt~ducti()n in ,vhich a very large number of The CONTROLLER OF CUSTOMS.

MI.

Ul:lDUfaeturers in this country are concern Speaker, I take the cheers of hon.

gentlemen ed: and if there are some whose interests· read that are diff(;\rent.
,ve have placed in the free list opposite as an .indication that I item in a. sUffic~ently loud tone to be h~ard an article on ,vhich I think they ,,'ill re by them.

for mind ,,,,hat effect ~'in be bad .upon that thi~ l'flduetion.

,,"'hieh I frankly admit is a article when another schedule IS brought lar~e cont.

but,,~hieh has been made In the int~r{,8t both of the manufacturers of the before the attention of hone gentlemen op- poslte, and which I suppose they wll1 be countr~"' and the consuming public.
delighted to hear read al,ter cheers I have '\vhich they have given.

Here is item 403.

I may as well prepare the hODogentlemen to expressm;r thanks to my hone colleague opposite to be ready for another cheer.

This (~[r. Paterson) for having so kindly re lie,"ed 11le ao(1 to the Honse for havinA' per Itern l'eads cotton fabrics,~ printed, dyed or COlfHll'Hd, which under the old tariff was 30 Dlitted hhn to continue the reading of the tariff.
nnd thu~ relieve me from what would" per c~nt, Is now 35 per cent.

oth{)J',,"'ise have been & very great burden,.

in ceiV'e some com])en~ating advantages Some ·hOD.

MEl\IBERS.

Hear, hear.

The ~lIXISTER OF }t"INA.NCE.

IS perhaps ,well ,to beat item to ,vhich I think.

however, reasons for '.rhe next b;ry' that the It I · .

I or • • .

.

.

Mr.

PATE:tSON.

1121 [.-\PRIL 2~, 18971 1122 I I a '" to gl't fr01l1 tea.

\yith ,yay.

sure, Illude tobacco.

":"1 t 1\ 13 relunins.

IH'I" eent.


'YP lnnlH' itelu 4fi4 of 011 oh.

, 11"'O~'I"'EI' .

~.,.

~~lIll~ter expect .

S\ lll( t~a>ce.

c oe.. 1 ~ th e that SCHne hone ~II~~lBERS.

tW'ine is reduced fronl 121h per nwl shall be hnnlediately reduced to (!ut~- on cut tnak(~ a:» per cent atI YUlnreul.

the present tariff.

cigars and eig-arettes.

and I shall take up the list ,,"here my hOD.

friend h.~ft off.

to binder t,,"ille I bave an announcement to of the pa})€'r nlakt~ ,,·hieh.
I anl 'Yit11 satisfaction by the House.

){)se that binder t\vine, C~\llt 11{'1' 10 per cent.

Iteln -lc.,-~ of the In item 420. of the old tariff ,,"hleb relates "'ei~ht of cigarettes to include the \veight covering has llO'V a dut.Y' of $2 ,,"ill be received per pound and 25 per cent ad YUIOrelu.

W~) 'Ve pro-j iI:(~re:H~e the rate of dut~· on cigarettes to $3 ,,,hich is no,v 12% per l}Ound nnd 25 per cent nd vulorenl.

The the old is 4:' eents per puund and 12~i!


pel· tnriff, lYe !llCre:'.lse that duty to :put ad valorelll.

.,1) cent!

'1 per pound "-lth 121/~ per cent.

an ~lallufactured -In;:) of the ,vho laughs last.

The dut~· old tariff.

the old dut)9 is :l:t e(~nt8 per ponnd it 4;t eellts 121/~ The ~II~ISTEIt OF PI~...\XCE.

~Iy hone inet'ease of 5 cents a ponnd.

laug-h too tluiekly ; Itohaeeo.

1l.e.S., and ~nuff.

itelll fl'ientl~ had bettel- not IH~ laughs best OIl bindel' c(~nt to 10 per cent at once.
and dating fronl a wI 1:!lh JU:.lr eent.

the 1st of Januar~"', 1898, binder twine shan ,[.

:lnd all the articles enter- .... 1.

1.

'(' OIl the free list into the nl:u~ufacture of binder twint~ I hOll.

in o' sh7.11 Hlso be placed on the free list for the j ehnll~e t 1JUl'po~es of lll:UIUfucturillg.

With regard to sugar, I find also that the the llresent tariff, I eOllle no\", to the itelllS or sugars.

s~9rulls, Ihe glad to presput I "'ould ~18k.the h?~l.

gentle- there ,vas to be a!


luno "rhat he hns done 'wlth Itenl 320 of the U Curset clasps, spoon clasps, or ".fh(' duty on ru\",!

old tariff: I The l\II~ISTEIt 01;" 11"IX .\~CE.

I shall to the hone gt~ntleillun lllulasses.

and in thnt eonnection I ma~" Iin n. little ,,-hile a general stat(~nH~nt of ex ant.l large Ippcted revenue.

so I trust he ,,"ill excuse Ine assoeiute In dealing if I do not luention that item UO\".

ela~~ of the it~nls to ,vhich I referred in a I shall no nlention of tea.
II not detnin the I-Iouse by giving the free list.

gpll('l'ul r-rh ..'rp is a 10 per c(~nt discrinlination in tea It ,,,,ill be enough to ~ur.

in ;.

{enel'al terlllS, l'egn rd to ilnporta tiollS not being di- Ithat ,ve do not lllake :Ul~" uHlterinl chunge, ,,-i til li:now Iexcept for the purpose of phl<~iDg certain reel.

That 10 pl~r Cf.

'ut to ,,-llich reference th('r(~ has been a [)opulnr idea that the GOV-l tbings on the free list \vonld ha ,-e to iInpose a duty on Ihas.

been lllade.
been lllade.

_ Spealdng gen~rnny.

a:nd (arnnH'nt tea.

the free lIst remulns in~ th:tt \Y{l cln not provose to do so.

lJnenumerated :lrticles, as in t.he same.

,viII stand at 20 per cent.

sa nH~ ~(lneral idea prevails in the minds of I (~(,l't:1in people.

,,,,ho kno,v all about.

the Gov-: ernnlent's polley that (ll1tv on ~UA'fir.

hi;!h ~u~nr no\",.

uspd for 1.

'2 cent per pound.

a.nd on the refined it is $1.14 per 100 pounds.

tl-l c()nts pet' 100 pounds.

"e prop,?se th~t ,,,ith others.


the dnty on ra,,~ sugar shall remaIn ~s I t , is to-da~9 because the revenue iR derlV'ed I '} The CO~ I nOLL~R 011 ~u SrOl\fS (:~Ir.

I u!erson).

}tems ~_O anll 3_1.

'yere cut out froIll ra,,,, jjugar.

That Dlenns that ,,"'e shall get thf' s;une a.nlonnt of l'eyellue.

But the nltogeth~r.

T!le artIcles name~l In them will llrice to the consumer is regulate<l by the bIke theIr ratln~ among the dIfferent classes dutv' on the refined article.
and that is to- of goods to "rhlch the)" belong.

day' $1.14 for 100 ~ounds.

l\i"e .propose to r~ I The ~IINIS'rER OF FIN~\NCE.

The usual that $1 per 100 pounds.

so that th J I provisions are made ,vith regard to classes rIne(=' I am sure the House duty shall hereafter stand at 50 cents.

perl of prohihited goods.

the raw sugar and 50· ,,-ill be glad to have me deal with the ques 100 pounds it you tion put cents additional for the -protection, to me at an earlier stage by the refiner.
hone leader of the Opposition as to the me care to use as aga;inst 64 cents in the present thod by 'Yhich we propose to establish 8. tarIff.

dol~ar difl'erent tariff .for those countries that are take a B;r fronl t(l ~xtent of $400~OOO per annum.

1\11'.

WOOD (Hamilton).

Would the hOD.

CD glucose or grape sugar.

item 393 of the Finance l\Iinister say if be leaves the free old tariff.

is now ItA, cents per pound.


Repre- ~£'ntations ,vere made to us that satisfied us that that duty was an exce~sive one.

We actly.

gIve disposed to deal with us.

the The duty 1'he l\IINISTEH.

OI~ }1"I~.,:\NCE.

I \vill \Vell, I have the pleasure of announc-I subject 'rhe MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Not ex the c.~ifference being nl~" hone frielHl thl~ step we do not l~st exactly as it Is now?

revenue, but sugar think is included the public people refining purposes, is buslis."

&c. -1 ~Ir.

TA.YL()!{.


to correction.

that word.

find that cheaper to the ,,"e to propose to.

re<luce the duty on glucose to * cents per pound.

It may be mentioned that Mr. WOOD (Hamilton).

There are certain the manufacturer of glucose will .get s()me items on the free list providing that where compensation in the form of free corD.

The goo(ls are imported by manufacturers.

they duty on sugar candy.


now lh cent per pound sball come In free; but if imported by a to a manufacturer duty and 35 per cent att ,"'alorem.

we propose to merchant to Bell .

~ T r for the !

, ~.

."

36 REVISED EDITION.

1123 1124 [COl\I:\IONSJ , d y Some hone ~IE~IBERS.

Ortler.

~lr.

'VOOD (Hamilton).

Jl1l1st be paid.

I think this is ChlSS legisla-!


That when the customs tariff of any country tiOD that should not be allo,vetl to exist in: admits the products of Canada on terms which, any country.

The slunller nlanufacturer is: on the whole, ar«; as favourable to Canada as the .
, terms of the recIprocal tariff heretn referred to, ; are to the countries to which it may apply, placed at a dlsa ,antage-- I articles which are the growth, produce, or manu : factul'e of such country, when imported direct inl therefrolll luay then be imported direct into Can order.

I ,vill not continue The small mann- !


ada or taken cut of warehouse for consumption facturer these: therein, at the re~uced rates ~f dutr prov}.ded"in goods 1113Y buy them from a Dlerchant who: tho reciprocal tarIff set forth In Sc~edule D. iml?orts tlleDl, and so he bas to l)ay the duty.
; eO~~::ie:l~t~V:(~t~~nt~:~~n~:~ ~fl~:e ~:c:;ro~~~ '\vlule the large In3 n~facturer who ~~n afford: tarift shall be de(~ided b}~ the Controller of eus to hllport the goolls III large quantItles·- the Governor ,\Yho is not able to import to the authority of If I anl not i tonl~, subject ."

1\Ir.

DEPUTY SPI~A.I~ER.

hOll.

gentlenlan is out of order.

......

I .

.

: G~neral in Council.


That t.lunk the; the Controller of Customs may make ; such regulations as are necessary for carrying : out the intentions of the two preceding sections.

.

.

the l\Ir.

WOOD (Hanlilton).

I filn 8inlllly pnt- ~ .. :"l ~ ... .

.. propose to grant Inentioned, to InentIon ,vith lIS.

.

, I S~tm-: iUl}lOrtf\fl ~xcepte(l In the to the.

benefit of IS that .

as respects all '.rIle l\IINISTER OI~ }1"INA.NCE.


luanufacturer must pay the: 3rtlcles not I aslied the hO:1. ; stantly.

and the sec?nd part ting a question in shape for the hOD.

~Iin-: ".

c. In'opose ister to give an al1~nYer-- Sonl(~ hone l\IE~IBERS.

Chair, chaIr.

~Ir.

"rOOD (I-Iamilton).

The large manu- i ('utitlPtl facturer can iUlport these goods free while: On~' !

)rOllOsnl the slnnller duty.

artIcles on ; ,vIlle]} ,,-c do not the the other \ special concession.
and that all I articles not heing so enllmernted, should be that concession.

the ,vay I have there should be a reduc- in t,yO steps, in- taking effect l\Iinister if he ,vould answer the question, i a .~-car later ; ~nd With these two steps we t 1)10pOSe there ~hould be ~ reductIon of .one and he said that be would.

I fourth :H; re~peets the dutIes upon all artIcles froill Great Britain, or from any favourably : just : tion, not nIl at once, but !

one part of the reduction taking effect ~fr.


DEPUTY SPE.AI\.ER.

Order.

~ir.

"~OOD (IIaluilton).

I ","ill ullderstnntl favou:fi hl~~ vel'~" nl1l)Ortant that pathize to a considerable extent with the other country ,vhich will deal feeling of the hone gentleman as to the em- barrasSluent that arises from haVing a duty SIr CI-IARIJES TUPPF...R. FrolH the state- so arranged tbat an article comes in at one rate for one purpose and at another rate.'
nlent of the hone gentlenlan, I do not quite or perhaps free, for another purpose, U dealing appears to mt~ onlY sa.y that I think in some cases it will be found ,ye have removed these anomalies; ,YO should understand but I frankly confess that a number of thelu ; ,vhat renla!n 3S .,ve did not fin~ ourselves ,vith j The ~IINISTER OF FIXANCE.
Perhaps s~ffiClent ~lme to d~a~ w!th them as we: the resolution ,vhicb I had the privilege of thInk a time we are re-; readin~ IllY hone friend did not catch as "ollid deSIre.

ducing the duty on manufactured goods, j fully as I desired.

and thus, perhaps, gIving the manufacturer : Is not an anxious time, That when the Customs tarift: of any country take n ,,"a~" from hinl any privileges he had adnlits the proc1uets or Canada on terms which, in the way of concessions on bis raw nla- on tho whole-- terlal.
So we are disposed to allow these· I wish to Pluphasize that, because ,ve may they adulit our products at one things to remaIn at present, fess I do not like them any better than my poInt on favourable that at another point on terulS ,vhich "re lUay re- con.

friend (l\fr, Wo-od~ HamUton) does.

Mr. DUGAS.

Did I understand the hone gard a~ unfavou.ra~le.

They might adluit l\Iinister to say there was a duty on raw on~ article at a 'fan' rate.

and SOHle other artIcle at n high rate.


Therefore we want leaf tobacco?

if their to average the thing and say tbat favourable to us on the whole, I think tariff that, so far, no mention has been made of then we propose to regard them as coming that, but I may have occasion to mention it under this privilege.

before I sit dow.n.
before I sit dow.n.

I propose now to read --aro as favourable to Canada as the terms of one of a serIes ofrescll.1tioDs dealing with tbe reclprooal tariff herein referred to, are to the particular subject of the reciprocal tari1f.

the countries to which it may apply, articles Of course a number of the resolutions are which are the growth, produce, or manufacture of a purely .formal character, and I shall j of such country.
when imported direct therefrom, not detain the House with them; but one I ~ay then be imported direct into Canada, or tkehn out ot warehouse tor consumption therein or two are of special a t e reduced rates of duty provided In the re.. Is of paramount importance, as follows :- ciprocal tariff set forth In Schedule .. D.,t The ~IINISTER OF FINANCE.

importance and one I. , "~~lat he "llleans us.

,vIth the hone gentleman lueans.


It reads as folIo\vs ._ though I con· find that the best time to terillS and b~" It is I .

Mr.

FIELDING.

1125 [.A.PItIL ~2, 189;] 1126 ----....---- - -- .. _-.,_.- ----- _.._-.--_....._._..

-_ .... ~-,_ .._----- .

-~------- ,- ¢ '" • the hone gentleman.

As Sir CHARLES TUPPER.

I hope I have answered my hone friend.

I suppose it Is "to climb o:er,.

t!lis resolution.
t!lis resolution.

~~t that the barest possibility that the~" ,vill be able i.s o'Villg to nl~~ obtuseness, but I do not yet 1110 reason ~ h~ "e sh?uld no!

make an e~ol t to.

d~al '~lth ,vhat.

IS regal.ded.

as ~.

g.I~.at understand him, suppose a country receives IeVl~ Ill. the community.

I understand I propose tIns re~o- receives the products of the United I That whenever the products of Canada upon the same terms lubon.
as it to the satis States and Germany, that as re garded" fiS receiving the products of Can- I spects any ~rticle of commerce there exists any ada upon the same favourable terms as the i trust, ~omblnation, association, or agreement of such ( ; .

re?uchon that the hone gentleman proposes I; article, or the dealers therein, or any portion ot ,vIll be extended to it?
to enhance the price of such article or in '£he I any other way to unduly promote the advantage the ex.. such nlanufa~turers or dealers at questIon WIll be whether, on the whole, the!

pense of the consumers.


and that such disad.. ternls are as favourable as we ourselves i vantage to the consumers is facilitated by the I beg, i customs duty Imposed on a like article when im offer in our reciprocal with J'our permission, to read the terms of Iporteil, then the Governor in Council shall place schedule U D" referred to in the enacting; such article on the free list, or so reduce the clal1~e .

j duty on it, as to give to the public the benefits The MINISTER OF I~INAXCE.
l any kind among the manufacturers of faction of the Governor in Council is that country re- tariff.

Now, it shall appear I them, !

of • • • Iof reasonable competition in such articles. '

• • ,.'

" .

ill b' l:..owever inclusIve.

h d ' this reciprocal tariff under the pro- !


in Schedule U A," namely; that these reductions shall not "hIle t e re uctlons ,v On all the products of countries entitled to the; Perhaps Sir before I go further I ought benefits of Ito say sometlung to the IIouse III answer visions ot sectlon-- Ito the suggestions of my hone friend from Left ~lank.

The number w!l1 h~ve to be I York (l\Ir.

Foster) as to the amount of dut;r 1 to be gained or lost by these changes.
filled III corresponding to sectIon 10 : I U A" 1 have to confess frankly that it has not been --the duties mentioned in Schedule follows :-On and after l found possible to make a very elaborate should be reduced as the 2:~rd day of April, 1897, and until the 30th Icalculation on that point; it is difficult to day ?f.
June, 1898, the reduction shall, It make a calculation of what ~mount of duty in ev el y case be one-eighth of the duty mention.. will be lost or gained under the scheme ed in Schedule U A," and the duty to be levied,1 ' .

collected and paid shall- be seven-eighths of the!

which I have the honour to submit to.

the On and 1Honse.

As respects a fe,v items, ,ve belIeve duty mentioned in Schedule U A."

the reduction shall!
that the reductions made in the duty will after the 1st of July, 1898, in every case be one-fourth of the duty men- undoubtedly involye some loss of revenue; tion£-d in Schedule H A," and the duty to be as respects the tariff generally, with the ex levied, collected and paid shall be three-quarters celltion of these few items we think that .d .t of the duty mentioned in Schedule II A"; pro- every conSl er- vide<1 apply'to any of the following articles, but such a~le and of great value to the people~ the~ articles shall in all cases be subject to the duties w111 be balanced to a large extent, if no" ales, altQgether, by the expansion of trade which nlentione.
(] sugar, molasses and ,ve believe will follow the adoption of this beers, wines and liquor, syrups ot all kinds, the product of the sugar cane policy.

It is not to be assumed that because therefore.

the or beet root; tobacco, cigars and cigarettes.

These are items which are large producers revenue will -be reduced.
On the contrary, of revenue,and we think it is not desirable it is quite conceivable that by a polley of that there should be two rates of duty as reduction of duty you may Increa8e your re respects these articles.
With the exception venue; In l1kemanner, It is conceivable that of these articles nlentioned,snd they are by a policy of increasing your duties, you ver~Y fe,,·, this preferential rate should apply may not increase your revenue to the extent to all the products of Great Britain and to that you anticipate.

Speaking generally, all the products of any other country which i our expectation is that upon a large Dum.. is 'Yilling to put itself on the same terms Ibel' of the items.
in fact, upon the taritf as Great BrItain, or on terms which will!

generally, with the exception of a few Items to a very con be regarded by the Government of Canada!

the reductions will amount as coming within the privilege designed by!

slderable sum to the consumer; .but there resolution I. will be such an expansIon of .trade that this resolution.

that I desire to read.

The Liberal platform practically there wIll be no loss of revenue.
froln which I read an extract to-night, de- I But that would not be true of all the Items.

clare<} that a protective tariff' had fostered' There are a few items on which t undoubt..
These l,i edly, we shall lose revenue, and perahps in monopolies, combines, I am afraid, have not wholly been the stateDlent I make I shall omIt to men destroyed, I think there are some of them II tIon somethIng whIch ought to be considered, in Canada now; and I propose to give them (because I have frankly to tell the House a certain notlce- that they may govern them-I!

that the.

matter Is one in which It Is some selves accordingly.
think., how.. that In the matter of IroD, owing to a resolution 'which we hope will be useful.

Itnow how dlfilcult it Is to reach the combines.

Ithe large reduction which we make, for I knowhow ingenious they are, and there is example the reduction on pig Iron from $4 Therefore, we propose what difficult trusts and combines.

I have another to be precise.

I I ever, reduced duties the are I 36th - - - '- _ _ _ I _- -_ "'-"'- onl~· __ ."

_- 1127 --- 1-"-"-"--- .__ ---- _.


--..-..--.-- ------- [CO~I)IONSl it is lose on the item of iron!

cal purposes.

1128 ..._----_._---_._..----------_..__.-_._--_._--------_.---------_..

_--------.-.----_.- .--_ ..- to $2.50 in our general tariff, ,,"ith a further Itlustl'ies haye conle into conflict, and the that dut:\", and Iluanufacturers of vinegar and acptie acid retlnetion of one-eighth of 13 ter Oll 3 nother eightll under the Reciprocal i c10 not agree.

I have reason to believe that Tariff.


there "'ill undoubtedl~" be, In the be-loll the ,,·hole this ,vill be nleasurabl~" satis· ginning at all event~, sonle loss of revenue.

i factol'~" to all as a fnir cOlnpromise.

It is )lakiug- u. roug-h estiIllate on that Iuatter, I !

also proposed that the Government luay a rough one, I ~ exelnpt acetic acid ,,"hen us;ed for meehani calldhll,r adluit thinl~ ,,"e lllar think perhap~ on the it()ID of Fl'Olll the ilnpositioll of an exci~e dutr on 8217.UOO.
,,·001leu8 "'e llla~· lose $:!7:t.OOO: on 'cottons foreign l'~nv leaf tob:lceo~ ,ve get an im· something lil\:e ~6H.OOO.

On the itenl of corn [ortant itelll of revenue.

a~ I shall proeeed ,ve will lose about $207.000, less the amount to sho,,·.

and at the sume thlle ,ve confer ,,,hich ,viII be paid b:r the di~tillers~ ,vbich eonsider:lhle advantag~ on the gro,,"ers of I estiu13 te to he in round nun} bel'S.

~60,OOO.

tobncco in Canada.


l-Io\y far it is possible for our grow'ers to displace foreign leaf ,Ya~ Deducting $(;0.000 frOll) If ""C add these to nnlch disputed before the tariff COlnllli~8ion ; loss will be $147.000.

the items ulread:r mentioned ,vith respect but if tilt!

Canadian producer ("an a~ a re ""C ha,"e a ~ult of thi~ duty ~et SOllH:~ aclvHlltuf,rP.

"-e ~ee to 'iron, gTOS8 loss of about $700,000.


I do not pro- no rlln~Oll ,,-h~· he ~hould not have the SUlue opllortullit~- afforded hitn as ha~ heen af fess to offer this to tbe House as a ver~· eOl'rect statelnent, I ndInit it is difficult to t'or(lptl ()ur HUlin pUl' eSliIllate.

and ,ve have to do it very bl'oadl~· PO~l~ is to get l'eV~~llne.

hut at the saIne tiIne it may 111(>1'(' gl'o,Y(~rs of nncI think ,ve 'Yill not he far tnhnC"('() in Canada re<:"eiYing ~l(lrallt:lg\' t'rt.
)lll tnrn out: hut a~tra~- ,vhen ,ve say that for the first year tlli~ r(a~olution.

,,·e 11ln~" lose on these itenls about $700.000.

\Ye ,,·iH gain sOluetllingo by the policy ",ve, ,,-ith g-rent doubt as to 110"· i~ n.') ohjeetion to th(~ ""OOllPIlS nnd cottons.

to other indnstrjes.

$207.000, the net :\lr, FOSTEH.

I to reeeiv·e fronl lIo,,",, nl.uch duty do son tbis increased duty propose.

an(l I "rill refer to the resolutions I 1 expect IUlve to propose ,,"ith respect to the eXc.
"isl~ on 1':1\V leaf't 'rile dut~,.

at presen t imposed by the duties.

pxci~(~ In \Y 011 l"'ph'its is $1.70 per proof goal Ion.

'Ye propose to increase that to $l.BO per proof ga.llon.

I know there is ft rle~ire on tlle part of some hOD.

DIembers to still It is further increase the duty on spirits.

naturally an article to which a Finance Min ister turns in his desire to obtain revenue.

the anlount \vell known that The ~lI~IS'rErl OI~" !1'lXA.NCI<J.

Fl'OUl raw leaf tobacco ,ve expect to receive the.


COlll 'Ve ex· fortable SUUl of nearly Sl,OOO,OOO.

increased excise duties on pect to get frolll incrc2sed excise dutv Oil spirits, $509.000.

and from increased cigarettes.

$100,000, CUStOU1S duties on spirits, tobacco find cigars about $173~OOO.
If ,ve should realize our ex pecta.tions on all these itenls, and of course there is a probabilit~T that the effect of the increased duties may be to diminish con· sunlption-if we ,voulu get our full estimate from increased duties on of the sum will spirits.

cigars and tobacco, reaeh$1,700,Ot)().

Of course I quite realize ,ve IURy not collect this sUIn, beca.use tha t ",,·Uh increase of is it duties the difficulties of collection become I have also stated that we shall greater.
through reductions in lose about $700,()()() I have iron, woollens and goods.

other mentioned in the earlier portion o!f m~· speech that if we ,vere continuing the old tariff, we ,,,,ouid need a bon t $750,000 more than -it ,ve take three-quarters of a million, whichwemigbt probably need in that regard, and $700,000 we may need-perhaps that is a large est!..

luate-to make up the loss we will sustaIn the reduction of tbeduties-we will fronl come out about even.
The bounty on Iron is also to be taken into consideration, and It bas al luay .vary tbe figures a little.

ready been stated that we are making very material reductions In the duties on Iron 'l"he iron industry was not specially favour: ed in the orIginal National Policy.

At all events in later years we Itnow that hOD.

they were justitled gentlemen opposite felt ,vould provide.

So if :\Ir.

FOSTER.

Tnkes to drink.

The FIXA.NCE :\lIXIS~rER.

Sonle Fi nance ~Iinisters do; as for Inyself I drink ",vater.
But ever~· hone lllember who has had any experience of public affairsknow~ that you nla~" push your spirit duties to a point ,,"here you ,viII not get increased re yellue.

or at all ev'ents you will get it at a high cost.

I anl free to confess that we are rapidly approaching that point in Canada.

,ve can l)lace th(~ Y do not suppose that duties IDuch higher tban we propose at the If it is considered expedient present tinle.
to still further increase the duties, the ex perience o'f other countries leaves ample room for doubt as to whether by increasing the duties you will increase the revenue.

I do not profess to give any absolute judg luent on the point, but there is some doubt in my mind wbether we would derive any increased revenue from· the spirit duties if ,ye increased ,them materially above what we propose.
Some branches may be found on w.hlch increr..sed duties may be levied, and if such is the case, some Finance Min ister will call it into operation.

'\Ve propose to reduce the duty on vinegar from 6 cents to 4 cents per gallon, but at the same time we impose a duty o!

4 cents per proof gallon on acetic acid.

Those in- Mr.

FIELDING.

1129 It b · h 19 .

t pOID.


[APRIL 22, 1897J luay too hastily assume that large sums haye been iuve8tetl; the Cauadian ore. 1130 - ---~------.. -~---_ ......_-- in entering on a policy for the special de-l time by proclamation, impose export duties on YelOpnlent of the iron industry, and in do-l sl.
!ch iron and steel ii the same shall be export ing so they granted bounties on iron and I ed from Canada; such duties to be not greater steel billets, as well as raising the duty to a: than t~e amount of the bounty pa~Yable on such ' iron a.ud steel.

I yery 'Ye have reduced the duty and we propos~ Pf;rhaps I may say in that connection that l~()'V to Ina}i:e up to s?me extent, f!lf a sh~rt Ithose ,vho haye no li:DO,vleuge of the subject tUlle.
the loss to the ~ndustry br Incr~asll~g iron can be rille bount~·.

Ho,,· far It ,vas a 'Vlse P?lJCjI .to satisfactoril~1 lllade in Canada froID Canadian is not a pecl1liarit~· of the iron undertake the development of the .tron In- ore. dustry in Canada in the ,va~r tho hon.

gen- trade here but it is kllO\Vn in the iron bl1si in I IH~SS O'enei"~l1Y that it is foun,l ad,alltageous tleman (Sir Charles 'l.
'upper) attempted, the face of many difficulties, and in the light Ito bl~nd diffe~ent kinds of ore, antI, there of our experience-ho,,· far that ,,"as n 'Yi~e i fore, the Cauatlian producer of iron ,,·oUltl policy Iua~· ,veIl admit of argument.

But.

It ~ l'()t be able to Illake iron of a ~ati~factor~· is 110t \yorth our ,,"hile to argue it to-day.

We: <:haracter if he \vcre cOlllpelled to use only 'Ve recognized that fact.
kn<nv that 'Ve kno,v that large iron; and propo3c to pay this bount~· "'ith due r~~· in this Industr~".

in the country, and \vhile; (rard to the proportion of the Canadian ore industries exist "'p r;~ar not approve of the polic~· under; ~'hich they ll13J' use.

\Ye give tllelu the ,,,!licIt they are established, this sire to sec thelu snuffed out no,,,".

'Yc ahYa~·s re denling with nIl other industries, Sh~nYll a \-ery h~rge nH~asure <?f cons!del'-: gard the action of a foreign c:Julltr,r \v~!icl1 3t~OU.
80 \ve.

desll:e to show' fau' cOllsider- i gIants bounties on products ~hlppcd.

to C:1U_ llH.lustrles, as a ntlon to tile Iron ludust rYe ,ve: ada in conlpetition ,vith OUl' sa~·.

if it is ill the interests of the peo.pIe ?f i 8ome\vhat unfriendl~" action.

'Ve believe Canatla that there shall be a reduction In ~ that a bount~· fed urticlc is huproperb· the dnt~· on iron\ve are prepared to accept!
brought into COlllpetition ,vit11 our pro(]ucts, the responsibility of advising tha.t the boun- ; and \ve accordingly feel aggrieved.

Xo,v ties on iron shoul(l be increased for a term!

,ve are ,,·illing to r.ar a bounty un iron this industry nla~r!

luunufactured in Canaua for eOllsumption ef ~'8ars in order that ; in CaI!ada.

but \ve bave no idea of pa~·ing lUive n. fair chance for existence. "
...e ,have substituted a bounty on the steel: the manufacturers of pig iron or other iron ingot for the bounty on the billet, -and I am ~ a bounty to enable thenl to suppl~r the ,,"orld inclined to think that ,vill be more satisfac- ~ ,vith cheap iron.

'Therefore, ,ve say that the 'Ve propose the fol-: t.ounty shall be applied to iron produced in tor)· Canada for consuluptio:n in the DOluinion, lo,ving resolution :- 1.
That it is expedient to ~epeal Chapter Nine :Jud if this iron is sh~ppetl b~yond the D~­ U An lllinion ,ve have the rIght to Illlpose an e~­ of Fiftv seven fifty eight Victoria, being: Act to· prov.ide for the payment of bounties on port duty upon it equal to the bounty paul iron and steel nlanufactured from Canadian ore" j bY the GoverIlluent of Canada.

and all regulations thereunder made by Order of; the Governor in Council.
I llaye IlO\V presented to the ; Ilouse afl th~ resolutions \vhich are of im- althouo'h there are a nUlllber of f..

Governor 1n Council may authorize the payment i 1 or~ul .. e lalac er of dIed iron bars and pig iron made in Canada,: that I shtall not deem 1t necessary to read that is to sa)' : the foBowipg bounties on steel ingot~, pUci- i others that are 0 sue .

a \ve have no de-; bounty for a ternl of five Yl'~U'8 frolll '.rhere is another provision.

.

to p~ovlde that to all concerned.


..A.s in: date.

~ the 1 V )rt.all('t~ "1 thinl\:.

Sir 1.

'herefore, \ve ~ave; is expedient 2.

That.

it .

( .

( .

.

them.

~f h t I · less than fifty per cent of Sir CH,A..U,LBS TUPPER.

is a very itnpOl'tant one.

On steel ingots manufactured from ingredients ""'ouItl nl~' hOll.

of which not the friend aHo,," lue to ask him a (luestioD, as weight thereof consists of pig iron m&.de in Can- In the subject ada, a· bounty of three dollars per ton; .
On pUddl~d iron bars manufactured from pig granting the ndvantages ,,·hich he has sta·.

Iron ma?e In Canada, a bounty of three dollars ied he proposed to grant to goods imported pe~l;o;~ iron manufactured fronl ore, a bounty i from the United I{illgdonl~ ho,Y d,?es lle of thref' dollars per ton on the proportion pro- ipropose to get over the BelgIan and ( ..erlllan d1.lced from Cana~ian ore, and two dollars per I treaties llrohi1?it Canad~ ton on tho propo~tlon produced from foreign ore; !
from discriminating III favour of Great Brl- 3, T~9.t it is ~xpedient to provide that t!Ie GOV-j tain against either Belgluln or Germans, ernor Hl CouneIl ~ay ma~e regulations lD rel~-' or any of the countries that have 11lost-faY tion to the bountIes hereInbefore mentioned ID "I order to carry out the intention of these resolu- OUI ed-natIon treatment .

ti~~SThat it is expedient to provide that the said I The :\lINIS".rER OF Pl:N.AKCE.
I am boynties shall only be applicable to steel ingots, Iobliged to the hone gentleman.

That is a puddled iron bars and pig iron made in Canada subject ,vhich I had next on nlY notes.

and II was about to speak upon it.

This ques- prior to the twenty-third day of April, 1902. tioll of the faYonred-nation clnuse in Impe 5.

That it is expedient to .provide that the fore- goi ng b0unties shall be payable only on iron.
rial treaties has been more tban once be- and steel for consumption in Canada, and that I· f the Governor General in Council may, at any fore thIS Honse.

ere are very many 0 ,,·hich ..act~all!

Th .

_ ~ • • l001\11\1ONSJ It that 1132 ihnt have that there l~ an l~por3nt dIS tain herself.

1131 - - -_.__.-~- think as respects the tain, that ,ve should to-da~" take the position, these treaties but I the favoured-nation clauses do not luajority of them no question need arise.

in most.
in most.

apply; and that this resolution ,,,,hieb I put I belie'\e.

be admitted that ,,-ill, cases the terlllS of those treaties will not, upon the ,:rable of the House ""ill onl:}~ ex interfere ,,"ith our liberty of action.

An:\" ; tend to such countries as are prepared, ~o question that may arise must come as re-: giye adluission to our products under fall spects the Belgium treat)· of 1862 or the' terms.

treaty 'Yith the Ger!Dan Zollyerein of l~O,:.s.


iSh- CII.All.I..ES 'l'UPP:E Lt I "l'ouhl dra'v Both of these treatIes do se~1l!

to provIde,: the nttention of the hone gentleman (::\Ir.

~t shall ~ot be ~he ~:1vI1eg; of a~~r, Fielding) to the fact that the treaty is not that COIOh~ to.

admIt the p~oduct:s of Great ~r~-; nInde bet,Yeen Canadu.

and other countries.

tain in.to.


Its lllarket ,vIthout ~xtendi~g SlIDl- ; The treatr is made bet,,"een Great Britain, l!lr prlvIlege~ to all countrIes havIng the; Bt.

'lgium and Gerlnal1~", and applies to all fa,oured-nation c l au s e .

; <.

:'(juntrie~ lllost-fuvonred-nation Ho:,,· ~ar "lye ought to ackno'Yledge that.

a~ : treatment with EnO'land.

The express terms a prIncIple that ~ould be pr0I!erly apphefl of one of those t~·eaties, at all events, is s:lf-governlng .colon~: lIke.
Can!1da:, that England 'Yill not permit any hi~her to.

a JUlght ~~ell be a questIon fOI consI.d~ratlon, rate of duty to be charged upon articles but.. ~u, I am not ~~sposed to .1~Ise t~at: CODling frOl11 thofo.

:c countries than is cbarge?

I ".ISI!

to d~a,\ ~~ttent1?~.

upon like articles cOIning frO?l Great ~rl­ questIon to-dar.

t?

t~e fact, If I am correct In m;y· readIng nlle-tIo.Il.

~)et,Yeel~ the pohc~~ ,Y}neh seelllS to , of tbe treaties, the proposal of the hone gen b?

f?

:~~)ldtle~ b~ the.


~elg!a~l and Germa~ tlel1l311 is entirely delusiYe, and win hale tleatH::~, and ,th~ pohc~ "Inch I have the.

no effect ,,"'hatever.

honour to snbnut to the House.

By the Belgian and German treaties.

any colony: The ~IINIS".rER 011" FIN.-\NCE.

I have ,Yould be forbitlden to make a preferential' to \thank lilY \ho11.

friend for rthe information agrf't~)nellt -,YHh Great Bl~itain alone.

'Ve 'that Canada has not made these treaties.


do not bS our resolutions offer anything to ' 1 thouO'ht.

of course, that ,ve a.ll understood 'Y'e recognize the .fact' that C~llada does not ulake treaties directly Gre-:lt Britain alone.

that (';reat Bl";Hain .by ber liberal policy is ill .

but does so only through Her l\:lajestv's Go\"' n posdtion to 'ayail 'herself of this offer inl.- ernment; and therefore there is not 'Very llledi~ltel~·.
but "\ye Illftke our offer not friend 'V~lIat I under G1"('n t Brittain Qul:r, but ~'·,hi<~h is prepared to :l.CC~pt i.t.. ,"Ve Ina.ke : stand, subject to ,the ultilnate judgment of It to royer):, countr~~ ,,,]uch 'IS ,,,fihng to es.ta- men ,vho kno,v lllore than I <10-1 do not blish fair and reasonable trade relations' speak as an oracle-with reO'ard to the Bel ' gian and German treaties, i; that Great Bri ,vi!h Canada.

.

~o,,", I shall 11ot.


underta~e :to pass any; tain ,,~jll not allo\v any colony to offer COD- Jud~nlent upon thIS very Important ques-: cessions the the most-favoured-naItlon clauses: same time offering thelll to those countries.
tion of of these IInperial national question, and it ~houl<1 reser,e our final 'Ye recognize that "rhile "·~~ieh ,ye sh!111 ultimately have to consult; 111y hone friend is willing to settle that ques.. "''lth fler :\laJesty's Governlnent, and I need: tion in that airy ,yay 'Yhich is so delight.. not ~a~t that an~" view that 1113y be takenful- b~~ Her :\Iajest)"'s Governlnent will be con-; sidered by the Government of Canada with; the respect that is due to an~y representation i speal~s for itself in express terms.
that lnigbt be made upon an:v subject, but 1 above all.

on a question of an international: 'l'he }IINIS'l:EIl, Ol~ FIN.A.NCE.

Even if the wor~d move~, and possibly the character.

and reasonable that we should be obliged.


step ,ye are takIng to-nIght may have the ""hile ,,"'e are offering certain terms, not to e1Iect-~~d that mar be one Of, !he a?van.. Great Britain only but to all countries "rhich tages or It-of dra"rlng the attentIon of Her ,yin place themselves in the same posltion·- ~Iaj~st~~'s Gover~1?ent and of the English it does not seem to be fair and reasonable publIc to the pOSItIon of those treaties.
Rnd ,ve should be obliO'ed to extend the thus openting up Ule question.

~:leal1time~ Sir, that privileges of this scheduie, ,vhich we call a recognizing the to nations which are not possibility that our judgment may be mig reciprocal willing to do a~ything in return.

taken, and recognizing the obligations we I admit there may be difficulties in thn lllay owe as part of the Empire, we intend ~·ay.
It Dlay be possible that the view ""C for the present to take the vie\v that inas lliUcb as we offer these conditions to other take of this matter is not the correct vie\v.

but we say it is only fair and reasonable in nations, if they do not se~ ,fit to accept them, the interests of Canada, the responsibility rests upon them and not fair tl\.

'l.de between onrselYes and Great BrJ- upon Canada.

is a question upon' The l\fINISTER OF FINANCE.

to eYer~· nation has said on that point.


.Sir CHARLES TUPPEIt Nothing of the I say that it does not seem fail': it does, to llluch information in ,,·hat my bon.

to Great Britain ,vithout at It is an Inter- I w't~: Sir OHA.ltLES TUPPF.JR.

recognizing the difficulties, judgment upon it. '

kInd.

in the interest of is 'yen that '.rIle treaty treaties.

tariff it 1133 [~-\.PRIL ~2, 1897] 1134 !

polic~~.

tariff.

reciprocal Mr. HUGHES.


I would like to ask my 1 Hons made in our The friend if he has taken an:r steps in iOtta,va platform pledged the Liberal party hOll.

his Budget to provide for an export duty on .

to ende~your to bring ab~ut t~e desired re- form wIth the least possible dIsturbance of 100's or on pUlp-wood?

~ business, and ~~ith no injustice to allY class.

The MIN~STER OF FINANCE.

The ho~.
The ho~.

That pledge we have fulfilled to-night by gentleman IS ,veIl aware, and the Hous.e 18 placing on the Table of the House a tariff ,,·ell a,\vare, that numerous representatIons ,vhich in its every line sho\ys that the Gov have been made to the Government on this (·rnment have approached the subject with question of export duties, as applied not Ithe utmost consideration, and with a desire merel~" to logs, but to a nunlber of other' to disturb ~in the least possible degree the articles.
It is a large question and one -r-arioll8 business interests of the Dominion.

'\vhich we believe should be approached with The Ottawa platform pledged us to have great consideration Hnd deliberation.

We I particular regard for a reduction of duties are not prepared to-day to declare our final!

on British goods, and my bon.

friend the In the tariff!

~linistel' of l\Iarine and fi"isheries ()'lr.

Da judgment on that question.


,ve do not; vies) moved in this House a resolution atfirlu ,vhich I snbnlit to the House, ploJ)ose ::til export dut~· on an;yarticle, except: ing that \Ye haye fulfilled that on iron ,vhicb bas received a bount~~.

in the illoSt ample mannel'.

,\Ye: pledge to-night uo not tbis!

'£he Otta,va platform pledged the Liberal think it would be prudent at moment to take the step which the hon.
gen- ; party to use all honourable efforts to bring the same: about better trade relations "~Ith tbe Ullitetl tleman·s question suggests.

At tiIlle~ 'Ye reserve our judgment on that point, ; Stntes.

'Ve have ah'ead~~ taken the· first and the lllatter nHl~' COlne up again at a ~ stell in t11nt direction by cOllnuissionillg two :\Iinisters of tbis GoVel'Dluent to visit 'Yash- later stage of the session.
'Ve have of late read and heard expres-: ington and make kno,,'u tlIe fHet-if it was sions of opinion that the trade of the coun- ne('eSS31'V to Inake it kllO'YIl-that Canada tr:r has been verr llluch upset, not so much is willin"g to negotiate \yuh our American br uneertaints' as to the nature of the tariff, .

neighbours for a fail' and reasonable reei as b~- the dcla~· in the announcement of it; pl'ocity treaty.
,Aluerican friends and while there seenlS to be some hesitation: ,vish to luake a treat~· \yith us~ \ve are 'Ylll thellJ and treat on fuir anfl in tIle extension of tra.de at the time our: ing to Illeet fiscal srstenl is under revie,Y.

YP.!t.

I ~annot equitable terms.

it it ~han not please thenl ,ve shall in one ,Ya)~ rl\~l'('t the regard the existence of this period of sns-' to do tllHt.

pense as ,,-holly hurtful.

\\'n:y have been ov-er-full ,,"ill be drained of their, l'pjt':ieillg.
and tind other markets to build stocks~ long credit~ and over-drafts will be ' up the IH'osperit~~ of Canada inder,endent of considerably reduced, ~lnd in the end busi-.

the .

:\..llleri<'"':lll people.

\Ye present to .tlli~ Ilouse :1 tariff ,,~lricl1 llP5'S ,yin be establi~hed on a firmer basis; and once the deta.ils of the tariff are an-.

h:ls the adv'alltage of being similler than nonn(·(~d.

tI'~Hle ,\-ill not only seek its QC-: the one tbat now exists, and I feel assured eOll~iderable ~.
'xtellt l'e cnstolned chaullels, but '\vill flo'v in increas- to a e(l Yohune.

Throughout the ,,~hole Dominion .. .luce that ifrict.ioll 'Yhicb h:lS so long ('x istec1 bet,veen the Dlerchants of the countr~" the prospects look encouraging.

ba and the North-west Territories, in conse- .

nIld the Custoln-hous~s.


'Ve subtnit a tariff quence of better IlarV'est and better prices' ,,-hich IUl'gelr abandons thl-~ specific duties to the poorer for grain, the cloud that has been overhang- ing for sonle ti.rne seems to be lifting, and' cIa sses.

in which the is practicaH)' not d:isturhed, ,,-ith the relno,aI of restrictions and a bet-: l:u·ge free list ter administration by Iny hone friend the: but has Inrge additions llHHle to it.

.We :!\Iinister of the Interior (l\fr.


Sifton), I look give to the countr~- the great boon of free ,,~hicll ,viII have an iUlportant effect forward to that country going rapidly ahead.

Further west, our distant proYince of British nll the <leyeloIllllPut of onr farlning inter Columbia is experi(~ncing an impetus from (lsts.

and particul:lrly the dair~"ing interest.

to whicl!
to whicl!

,vemust look in a ver~" large de the development of ber rich mineral depo- In the older provinces there is the ~ree for the prosperity of our farul(lrs :uld sits.

promise of a prosperous year, and, as I have th~ increase of our exports.
We give to the said, business is only ,,-aiting for the de~, ('f)\lntry a reduction of the dut).. 011 coal oil, relllOyal of hur<1en~onlP restric tails of the tariff to be announced, sume its accustomed channels In increased: tion~ respecting the ~aIe of coal oil.

We .

~i\~e to 1'h(\ fUl"llUel' :his fenee ,,1re at a lo\v YOhlnle.

the present year.

and the 1st of 'Ve give him his binder the Otta,va cOllvention.

<leclured 1 t,,~ine on the sanle terms-a lower rate of binder the 1st day of January next.
twiup fronl 'V'e ~iV'e the medical allil dental profes ~;ions a. boon, "?hich folIe ~-()ung(lr nnd less chief point~ of the policy ,vhich I submit to ; nlace it on the free list this IIonse.

fern} at it~f.\lf to be in faYOUf of a reduction of the; duty fOl- tariff.

That pledge we have fulfilled to-dar in onr general reductions l)~~ tariff.

and still further by the large rednc- In conclusion, permit me to sum up the; ra te of duty for The I.~ibelal partYe in its plat-: .Tanna!

")- next.

fact.
")- next.

fact.

but ~hall lle,~ertheless go on OUl" that ba\""e been so unjust \Ve subnlit a tariff 'Varehouses whicll to re-: and th(~ the present.

In Manito- !

"\ubstal;tial and free If our that (lorn.

irOD) ,,-ill it 1136 .

1135 lCOl\IJ\JON~] a_.__ .~_ w_.-_a_ .

.. _ _ ... - ( - - .

benefit of placing on the \vhen ,ve put all the manufacturers 'Ve ; ,,·hen 1 8n~' tlU!t Ilear hear. '

lla,e passed into la,,,,, then} in the past of the burdens ,,"'heat and cornmeal.
the ' And statesmen at her couDell met, - - - ... - ----~--------- --- wealth~· members of the profession will ap-l we 'l\'1ait for England to do more?

Some surgical and 1 body must make a move in this matter, and instruments on the free list.

We Iwe propose that Canada shall lead the ",·ay.

luining industry of the ll\ly hone friend the leader of the Opposition free list all I says that our project of freel- trade ,,·ith preciate, dental recognize the great country b~!'
machiller~' exclusively used in mining enter- !

England is a delush"e one.

'Ve do.

not_ contine it to mining .m~-l Sir CHARLES TUPPEIt.

pr~ses.

chIner~' lnatle III Canada, but ,\ve say It IS I more inlportant to develop the mining inter- l The ~IIXIS1'EI{ 01·' FIX..-\.XCE.

Is it ''''hen I plaee these resolutiol1:5 ests of Canada than even to make a few!

({elusive.

machines in Canada, and so ,\ve put mining!

011 the 1.
011 the 1.

'able of this House to-night, they machiner,Y exclusively used for the purposes I go into effect.

and I speak '''itil pride, in of mining pnterprises on the free list.

'Ve!

the name of the Liberal party, and the hone g·i\·e l1hp peol)le the benefit of r(.~luettion on 1 gentlemen around me will share that pride, breadstuffs, 1I0ur, to-l1101'ro,,· luorlling'.

at e\'el'~" give <:ustOlll-h()u~t~ in Canada frol11 oct1un tt) OCt:aall.
cheaper iron, and much complaint has been the doors ,vill open on terlllS of preferential trade :n'ith tIle lllother countr:\"_ I cannot .made b)· \Ye, doubt that this tariff ""ill commend itself imposed upon them by the iron dut,Y.

revise the duties on rice in such a manner 1 totihJis Ilouse l:tud countr,·.
.Iud "'hen thi~ they ,,-ill not add a cent to the cost 1 policy shall have l):!sseu f"ts ,arious stages, that to .the consunler, yet Ithe:r \yill ntl'll Inateri:a.l- ' when it shall then 'Ve give the people the members of the Parliament of Callnda ly to the public rev'eune.

""e may feel that, in this glorious year of jubi a reduction almost all along the linc.
prov'ide the necessar~" revenue to meet the lee, they have made a noble contribution t() great needs of the country by increased, that splendhl parliainelltar~~ record ,,·hich taxes Oll articles of luxury, such as spirits, 1Tennyson had in his luind \yllen he pictured tobacco and cigars, and without any increas- Ithe reign of lIer :\Iajests Queen 'Pictol'ia : If hone I ed taxation on the uecess:tries of life.

gentlellH~ll OPl10site have ev'er bad the free!


~reakfHst table the:r ta~k abollt, we make I It freer to-da~' b~r redUCIng the dnt,Y on the I sugar tbat goes on tbe breakfast table from!

$1.14 per 1.50 pounds to $1, tl:rial reduction.

1.

Res.

:·lYed, That it is expedient to revise and gn"'e to the people the benefit8 of preferen- !
consolidate the Acts and parts of Acts now in This i force respecting the duties of customs, and that thll question of preferential trade has been lllen- 1for this purpose it is expedient to repeal the fol tioned in the lIouse in tilnes pust.

Leading' I lowing Acts or parts thereof llot heretofore re- public luen trade.

but al\vays annexing to their sugges- I at-D8' !ctorla, Chapter 33, Intltuled: tion ~~l delnund with ,vhich kno\vn.

El1gla!1d co~lcl n~t comply.


advocates trade, events all in that 1l10Yement, have assuloed that, as ther to amend the Customs Tariff, 18~l4."

the first step, England Blust consent to put a dutr on corn.

does not "ie,v that project with favour.

"71) kno\y that no lllore unpopular project caD.

1· b b .

a ng IS It nlay tbem to put a duty on breadstuffs.

and at an early rolls be~ as day, views.

It in I see may it this their distincti<!D, I preferentIal I, and the'\" may some I .

b .,.

.
b .,.

.

t ey can I mte to the granl of C4olnada.

f be induced to ~o th!lt ,by fair argu~ent, ] i have no doubt It WIll be a good thIng for I Canada.

But why should we wait for Eng- l land to take action'?

generously:' with us in tbe past.

has given us a larger degree of liberty per- I h pS tb'an is possessed by any other countr"" I a on the face of the earth.

She has gIven us libert.y to tax ber wares even w"ben she admits our goods free, and we have taxed them to an enormous degree.
Why shoultl (e) The expression "proof" or lie proof spir- its," ,,;hen applied to wines or spirits of any kind, means spirits ota strength equal to that of pure ethyl alcohol compounded with distilled the resultant England I mixture s!tall at a temperature ~f sixty degrees Fahrenhp.lt have a specific gravlty of 0.9198 as compared with that of distilled water at the same temperature ; (f) The expression "gauge," when applied to metal sheets or plates or to "'''ire, means the thickness as determined by Stubbs's standard gauge.
1.

That un~e~s.

the ,~ontex,~ otherWIse requires, ,:epresent and have n.e.s.

Ie th n to ask I the meanIng of the words not elsewhere spe· cified" ; (b) The initials "n.o.p."

~n Act it ,vas well I to c?nsohdate and aUlend the Acts respectIng the • H An Act .A.n the!

of at ,,"ho have taken an active part I they may cbange theh- be interest ""'e kno,," that England fOllowing bE: substituted in lieu ther~of:- .

\vtllieh is a l111a- !


rDhe follo""illg are the resolutions :-- England has dealt I' water in such proportions that \Vho knew the seasons when to take Occasion by the hand; and Iuake advocated preferential!

pe!l~e.?

'~i.z.

:~, And to provide otherwise by enacting that the (~) The expression.

"gallon" nleans an im· all I to amend the Customs Tariff, 1894."

trade \vith the nlother countr.;r.

represent and have h not otherWise 58-59 Victoria.

Chapter 23, intituled: .And last, but not least, ,ve!
59 Victoria.

Chapter 8, intituled: The bounds of freedom wider yet.

the nleanillg of provided for " sand pounds avoIrdupoIs; .

ton means t\\O thou- !

DutIes of Customs."

to make offer \d) The exples.slon pe;lal gallOl~ ; .

(a) The.

InItIals preferentIal they may Ie An Act fur d tb E e . "

" the words e o ere ff have peop tinle that ".

011. .

.

S & ......

.'

.

.

; oY Ie !

• , Mr.FIELDLNG.