Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697720210543.pdf (Canada)
1279 COMMONS 128() ' I , • 1 tor I 8lll and tllat I (:\0, 18) A year lilY hon.

tile points RAILWAY termlnntlon RE.\.DINGS, On section I, ;\[1".

SPROULE.

the com- ot Is tbere not an additional the wave or business actlvlty.

'Which has slnee passed and or C.\XADA SOUTHERN COMPA1'o'Y.

COXSIDERED IN COliMITTEE--THlRDICauada's prosperity.

Michigan Bridge and Tunnel Company.-Mr, Cowan.

Ralh\ay Bridge and Tunnel Company.-Mr· II suggested was that we might Ingram.
Rlll sgo, wbell Sllenklng 011 an occaelon similar to tills, alld congratulating tbe House on the tbell (Ko.

13) respecting the Canada and 'hnppy state of atralrs, I expressed the opln lou that the couf'ltry bad about reaChed the ('I'l)st ot I .

.

1 did not anticipate any Immediate depres- Bill.

(Xo.

1,5) respedlng the Rl1er St. Clah ~ sloll 01' any severe depression at all.
What look tor w/H'd to u verlod ot check, n period dUI'iIJg: ~'hl('JI we would not continue the rnplol Iltlvauce ot the p,"st-a period of rest nttt'!"

which tILe Domlnlou would again go to\'- Some hOll, gell- lI'nl'd b" leaps and bounds.

Bill INo, 20/ to Incorporate tbe BaUletord r t1enlCn opposlte tbougbt tbat my view wns Tbelr observation ot tbe slglls lot the times led them to believe that we I lind already entered.

upon a. period ot (Ie- In view ot tbe operations or the 111'eSSlon.
".111' the Illresent outlook tor the' future we are ablo to lucorporate the Veh'et (Rossllmd) Mine Railway Company.-Mr. Gaillher.

and Lake Lenore RlillwaJ' Company,-Mr. t too llOpetul.

Calvert.

House In Committee on 8111 (No.

7) An to see that my own antlclpations and those Act respecting the Canada Soutbern Rail· I' ot my bon, friends oppos!te hnve botb Ile('ll Ilgl'eeably disappointed.
TJle business con- way Company.-Mr. Ingram, i <liUOll of the country has proved very sa tis- factory, better than my m\'D expectatlon",_ I would suggest, Mr. Ulllch better tban tbe lells hopefUl views or Chall'luan, In u mencement tbese COlIllU'y so vast as ours, wIth such \'HI'ied branches should be more deftnlte1y set forth condItions, It would be too mucb to expllct In the Bill.

Industt'J' clause to be proposed covering tbls point?
would be able to make the same gratlfJ'iug" tblnk I call the t '\lly say tbat durIn" the past few YCDI" Bill WliS laid over for a time In order to \~'e Jmve approached 'is near to that IinPIJ; It condition as could reasonably be hoped for.

allow Ilpportunity tor tull consideration, III llearl,· all tbe great branches ot Imlustl'.\·, was taken up at a time, Whenj tbe hon.

gentleman (Mr. Sprou e) was nil- .


the 11fiSt year has been olle ot actlvlt,- and sent..and passed In Its present form by the: \lrOsperity.

In the paramount IndustQ' or unalllmous vote ot the C<lmmlttee.

loug contlnuc 10 Mr. CHARLTO~.

It was explained that i he the vel'y foundatlou ot OUl' pl'ospcritr, the ~'ear have been most tbe Canada Southern Rallwa,' Compan)', tile results of were uunble to f1.x definitely the terminal I gl'ntlt,'lng, especially In Mnnltobll and t!le hlCI'l!:ts!!
(1 points ot Nlagnrn river, because bridges which It I aCl'ellge and n must stores of WIIl:l designed to use llad not yet been bOJlntltul harvest gan us vast facilities or locnted.

Oue Is expected to cross at Grund i gl'alu which have taxed our tile I transportation to the utmost, and Wlll'II~'(1 Island, nlld auothel' In nelghbourllood of Qneellstoa.

The brancbcs j us thnt larger pI'oylSIOD must be mnde fu(' wl1l not be constl'ucled until the bridges are.
the llllndilng or the treasures of tile ~r~'at located, and, In tbe meantime, define the point cxactly to which the lilies i til<' are Intended to run.

The description Is as I year's affairs ,has been the census returllS, det\nlt(' as It call he mnde at tile present' which suo", a growth ofpopulatiun sul\l(>' tilDe.

But the mouwnt BlI!

the,.

are by no meaus dis' couraglng.


It Is well known th:l.t dtll'lllS \)art of tbe ten years tel'll} lhac the ilrst was comparatively little development or 0111' But for the last five yeal's Clln counh'y, The ::\UXISTER OF FIXAXCE (Hon, W. ada has been making very rapid ad\':'U1CC, thl!
'\\'oul(1 pass w.~ lS AXU )I1'l.\XS-THE BUDGET, 'i"bat t\lo HOIl~" rot Il'le Hself ;nto CommIttee censns between the two perIods, Ill'oposed brnnches on the North-west Terrltorle!l, wbere 'or ,'llistugIprobably be seen that practically the whole bl d Id wblle these returns are tor It It were possible to discriminate III I' what less thnll man" hnd boped for.

friends on tbe other side.

I Hgrlculture, wblell must t me, an I disnppolntlng, tllIlt every sectlon a·nd .

Mr, I~GRAM.
Mr, I~GRAM.

'file oue dlsnppoilltins tbe Ways llod ~teJ.nll report ot prosperity, I may explain that S, Fielding) mored: d ed reporte , the,.

cannot I west.

to be bullt cultlvation I belle\'e, 1 rcn( feature under every tbe t their But or It I .
I' privilege to present another chapter In tbe contlnued atory of to tJhe House to-day Ithat IIgbt the returns lire eneouragln~, plllc(, increase ot populatlon bas It 16 my happy wltbln the last five years, aDd vle~'el:,_~~ t the condHion or Canllda hI 1'..('011 tunately, taken to consider till> Supply to M granted to His Majcaty.

~(I', Speaker, He said; Sl~ WILFRID LAURIER.


1281 ::MARCH 17, 1902 128' - -====== ;======== J)n,u[,.~ op Rr,n::sn:, 1~·1!101 '~1l"1'«1-e<J with pn'viou~ yc:.r, Tbc I year~ bas been such that no statistic!

have, beeD needed to prove Its progreSl.


activity tllat bas prevailed In all parts ot ===~ tbe Dominion, the large enterprlsea that ba\'e been undertaken, the contlnned de WRud fOl' 1:lbour-all these prove beyond uestloll that C:>nada haa recently been de- ' ~elOVillg I'apidly and give us every reason to tldll'\"e that when tbe next census II tlIken tile result will be satlstactory, =- From tile financial point ot view, Mr, the resuits ot the yesr were ex-, C,,~t.J1l\~.

.
.

speal,er, ceedlll;::-ly sntlstactory.

We had a revenue E,c;,,, or ~5~,;jl-I,701.13, a little lcss than my anti- clp:llions, rel'elluC ot It will be tbls lncrease!o Intercstlug to know tlHtt revenll{'- com{'s to us trom all the dllrcrent clnssl'~ Into whlcb we divide our receipts, as BpPi':ll"S by the tollowlng statement: I'.._t (lIti,-,~,.

tJUt considerably greater th:L1l the -'llail"ay~... IJ" III in i lOll .L:n"I~.

the previous year.

\("c,'I1","",,,~ _.. -----.-,_.

Fiscal Y ..;,r IS!~,I·l~H)l).


Fi-eal y"".

WQI}-l!101.

~ >< ct.<.

cto, , ~'tl,~U, U~ Gl :!~,-I'!

:"2$~ ~,', :I,~;'~,O;" 31Ih,:n~'~~jl; ~:: 3,~~,(i;{.

; II: a.·I~ll~H !13 &.

:!13,;~"1 '!l' ~,;;~,m!(r.!

," ctJI.

',1,131; iiI ~.

::.o.I!1Il (;''l 2:i;',.

!~;:1 ;1 ·1:\!j.~I:1 :!2 1,:1.~~.0'.

!3;8 1,&1;,;1l!1 :,'!

12'.I,~~I::; ;~ 3,4:Y1,I).

'>O Ifl ;l,'IJ''',:I~:, \1; l;ll,s~ij O!I - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '-,I,O?I,!~lltr!
'-,~,.·,I-I,;IIII:11,~Il~,;O; 11 Tbese Increases are all Interesting, but la good deal of attention In tbe country.
them are worthy of special note, Whether or not It wlll be gratltylng to make some or the statement, tile fnct must be stated that The exelse duties are nlwaya Interestlng, not onl)' because at the amount of duty In- tbcre has been an Increase durl,ng the year voll'rd In them, bot because they show the lin the receipts In 0.11 branches ot the excise consllulptlon of cerroln articles which enlist!

duties, us appears from tbls table: ------------------~-~------- .EX/'lst Dt:TIl-;~, 1!lO:.J-l!
!Ol, Qt:,\:STiTr.

D1;T1".

"/,;I·;f.•.

:'> ~It..

('ij.['u'~..

Ci~a"'lb"_' '1'"1.... ,,, a"d .n,,1I.

1(,," I".,f, fon·ign.

, ... GallJ u.. :\0, " Ll>.o. "

~.ll1,9,038.

2,tl63,1l(jU: GO'2ll4'0ti41 tH,,23,C\6 I 13..,\0.11,,0;" Hl,OllC,889; 121,383,5.<>4 I llJi,OOI,fin Il,;l3O,345 I lO,!Hli,M4 1l,1l-48,81J3 i f1,:J.j:?,t.

:j;; , , ::;,I,S,Ziti H';'O,s::.r> ltl~ .~ :lti2;:;'!i; 1,0'lI:,2(jt, I 2,;:JJll,460 1 But I ;.
;11"t' Ilght haa made out lIave yeun, and In tbut tllese flgures becnuse, ~s I the growth or trade In t1Iese articles more tavourable stRtemen\:.

.

- ' - - - II I give ~tilll',l.

Is nJwil)'S n. matter ot Interest, wbether or tbe figures as they appear In tbe !>ooks of It ULcets with general approval.

There the Finance Department, and tlley repre IlOt the year ot $489,9U.OS.
"n~ Olll' or two otber Items In the revenue sent a deflclt for I think It Is ot course quite a large sumi bnt wben \'-hich ;11'1' worthy of special note.

that only a few years ago HI.\' !Ion.

fl'll'nd tile Postmaster General bas we remember (Q cong"rntulate hlmseU on the state the deflclts of the Post Office Department n';tSOll If o( thl' post office revenue.

1,,..rl';ISQ ot $235,969.7"7 In the revenue of there Wll8 nothing else to ex:plaln the mat lh:lt I\('partwent.
this reduction down to $489,000 would ter, The post otllce receipts 'IS sholl'lI lu the boo"s ot tbe Finance De- be a I'emarkable reduction on whlcb my 1""'llll\'lIlIlOlounted to $03,44.1,504.00.

The ex- hOD.

trlend the Postmaster General might But wilen we p'"nd!lure, by the same account, WIlS $3,- well coogratulate blmselt.
:l::!I.·l·t\i.Ol, showing n' deflcit at $489,UU.08, nre able to go fnrtber nnd show that III to tile books ot the FInance De- friend has morc :l1"('ol',Ung' the meantlme my bon, 1'''''lllll'nt, My hon, friend the Postmaster than cut ::Iud that ·he bas reduced the Cnnadlau postu~e ,; 'lWI';l!

hus III his own report drawn at- I,'nlioll 10 IIle- dillerent servIces performed one-third, that he bas practically cut off former whllt ~omebod)' else 'hlll!
described lIS 1\ mil· a.~ There was an were $700,000 and $800,000 per annum, l'"mplJ\'('(1 wIth the services of tbe Engllsh postage In two, " REVISIl:D EDITION 1283 COMMONS 1284 lion dollars In the charges upon the people, and stili haa reduced the deficit trom '700, 000 an4 $800,000 to $489,000, I think It will be agreed that tbls i8 a very gratifying statement, and In the highest degree cred itable to the government, and e6peclally to the minister In charge of that depart ment.
the next Budget I am glad to be able to say that the post office returns tor the present year Indicate that we shall ,have at 11 to make still more gratifying statement find that concerning tMt department.

I tor the eIght months ot the present llscal year the sales ot stamps, w.hlcb ot course Is the chle!

source of revenue, huve amount ed to $3,172,931.

Last year tor the corres [n pondIng period the)' were $2,909,128.

1898, before the reduction ot postage, the re ceIpts tor eIght months were '2,946,518.
l:la that to-day, with a tbree cent rate reduced to two cents, aod with the English rate reduced trom five cents to two cents, we Bre able to sbow receipts In the eight mouths ot $3,172,000, against $2,946,000 when the higher the JAoking operations ot the ,present elgbt 'months in another toim.
the Increased expenditure or the Post Ofll.ce Department during these eight months amounts to $45,000; but tne Increased revenue tor thesc eight manths amounts to $260.000; so tbat in the opera tions ot tbese eIght months the Post Ofll.ce Department shows a betterment ot $216,000.

I have every reason to anticipate tbat when the Postmaster General prepares bls next report he wlll have a very gratltylng state ment to present Indeed.

rate prevailed.
rate prevailed.

at Then, SIr, I think tbe receipts trom rail ways are worthy ot special notice.

We hear very much about the expenditures on railways, because our outlay bas been large.

We hear very mllcb at a detl.clt on rall ways when one occurs; but we are some times apt Increase to overlook the large which has taken place in the receipts ot I find that .In 1896 the re those roads.
ceipts tor railways were $3,140,678.47; last yl'tlr, the receipts were $5,213,381.24, an In crease In the yent's ot $2,072,702.i7.

So that It my han.

trlend the Minister at Rail ways and Canals makes large demands upon us, he Is at nil events able to show that we recelYe ycry large returns tor them.
In connection with the statement ot last year, I would Invite attention also to tbe opera tlons ot the railways tor u period at seven months, as we bave only returns to the end tor the seven or I And that months ot Inst year there was a loss on the Opel'lttlou ot the Intercolonlal Railway ot $537,4i9.40.
But 1n the corresponding period of seyen months In this year the loss on the Intercolonial Railway operation Is only $89,787,lT, which would seem to IndIcate that at the present trlend the Mln!ster ot fiscal year my hOD.

Railways and Canals will have a talrly the close at January.

Hon.

Mr.

FIELDING.

satistactory statement to present as agaInst the one tor the past year~ whlcb sbowed a de1l.clt ot J4ss,OOO.
Our expenditure on consolidated tund lor the year past was $46,866,367.84, as agalust, In the :previous year, $42,975,279.51, show· ing an increase In expenditure on cousol!· dated tund tor the year ot $3,891,088.33.

There have been some Increases In mnllY ot the departments.

In legislation there was an increase ot $342,424 an Item due to cir cumstances which are probably generall}' In arts, agriculture and statls· understood.

tics, which Includes the census, there was an Increase ot $235,645.
In militia there was an Increase ot $215,495 ; In rallways aod canals, collectlon-that ls the working ('x penses ot the Intercolonial Rallway-there was an Increase at $1,138,600 but, as I have shown betore, tbat outlay comes back by way ot Increased receipts.

In public works tbere "'3S a large Increase at $1,096, 743; In tbe government ot the North-west Territories $HiO,177 and In the the post otnce department $173,431, which, however, cowell back to us, as I have already shown, very handsomely.
are I have prepared a statement ot comparison tor the two years showing the expenditure on the con80lldated tund account and several Items" whtch make up what are called capital aud spedal charges.

The WOI'ti 'capital' is used In the books ot the depart· ment In a tecbnlcal sense.

It reters to a certaln class or works.

There are certain capital others which arc nominally not special really but which charges charges, as railway subsidies, tor exawple.
The)' do not appear as capital charges, unt special charges.

But tor the purpOse of our discussion these may all be called cnlllUal chargea Inasmuch as thcy are not cl.larJ;CS to Income.

This comparison shows th:l.t on consoUdated tund as 1 have alrendy stilted, an Increase at there was $3,891,088.33 For there railways, on capital account, was an expenditure In 1901, ot $3,014, tor 010.50, canals, $2,360,569.89; n decrease ot $.2iS, 991).04; .8 decrease· of $82,843.90; Dominion !
;Iuds, increase $269,060.90, S09,ri!

"lO.Sl: militIa, $135,884,79, a decrease ot $9~,9f;~,·'i'2li and Canadian Pacific Rallway, I"lLIfi Item ot $8,978.87, an Incre1lSC ot SS,H2.16.

The total expenditure tor the year 1!

)()().1 was $7,695,488.34, showing au IncrC'(I;:C o~ Then there are the specht $226,645.10.

expenditures ;: that tollows: Railway subsidies, ~2.5e.32R as nsalnst $725,720.35 tor 1S9fl-1fl((I. nn ~1,78i'd In that Increase For the South African war no" 608.51.
$OOR.1181.4i sarrlsOll we Halltax which shows a decrease ot $638,94~.32.

I we take t1.lc total capital and spccl:!1 e:l"; pt>ndltures, which, practically we trt'8t t:e capital In our dIscussions, we find tbnt I bave descl'llwd.

Item alone of publlc works, $1,006,983.30: Increase ot $605,116.19: spent an an ot (I 12R~ MAROH 17.

1902 "---=-======;=====~==== 12BB In eXP,'lllliwrc Wi'll> tlgtlillst $9,742,187.33, the,>.!

hends of $1,374,311.29.


the n.;;;rcgn.te expenditures, that Is consoli- expenditures or all classes or $5,265,399.62.

I [ we take IwaB $51,982,866.46, an Increase III the total $11,116,498.621 dated rund, capital, speclnl and all classes, the yenr 1900-1 Increase under Ithe total expenditure tot' 1901, un EIPESDlT(;\l.P,.

_____________: o,"_"lidatcd }'lInd ....• •.••••.. C"I';lf:,:,\'l~vaY"" .

.

(',,":\l~..

I'n\,lic WOTk~.

1).


'lUillion 1..'l.l\d$... :\tiliti".. ('alladilm Pacinc Railway............ Total ClIpital... til·~·i"l-' .

.

~:ailway Sllbsldl(lH.. :-:",,,th Africa and Halifax Garrilj{)l\.. 1 ' I I 1899-1000.

I WOO--1.

\ IIlCTe&lle.

- - - - , - - - - - 1 - - - - 8 i Decrease.

CUI.'

ct.~.

ttl!.

i ~ 8 ct!!.

:l,891,088 33' 46,866,367 841 S .

!

oCl,976,270 "I i~,308,894 :nl~.!

:ll4,OlO f,oI-005,116 l !

.

l i - - - - .

I 2,G3!l,5li4!}3.


1,089,1;21 2!l1 19'.j,4iO l!9: 230,lj""O all 23G 11 2,SliO,1)(;1) 89 .. 1,00G,\J8.1 39'.. 26?,060 ~i 13::0,81H ,9: tl,97$ 87: 2'J8,!

)iI:; 04 82,843 90 69,Y.lO 81 .. .

.

I 8,74276 7,llt5,4811 34 -----z26,645 101 ;,468,&1324, - - - - , - - - - - -------i---- .
_:[,47,623 i4i_ 008,liBl 42 _""_"_"_""_':"':":":'I_638,!lol2 32 ;25,720 ::tt'l 1,7llli,1:08 :iii 2/.12,328 86 : - - - - Tot:>1 Spedal 2,2':3,3-14 09i 3,421,010 28 ---":':47,(;66 l~ T"ta-l Cnpittol a-nd ~pocilloJ.. •• 9,742,180 331~6'4~ 62 1,3i4,:m 211 _ _ Total EXpellditure of all kindll .... 1'i2,717,4(',6 84 5i,9~,t'66 46 5,1G.j,39!1 Gw ~~'!ll be noticed that the largest Item ot I I come now to tbe question ot tbe public llet debt ot $2,986,196.80.
It mny be InterestIng that I In(:I'\'1I8e In this statement Is on account ot debt.

Tbe net debt on the 30th ot June, l':lilway subsidies.

As I have pointed out 1901, was $208,480,003.69, while the corres W(' ~Iu'nt last year $2,512,328.86 on railway pondlng debt ot tbe preceding year was sulJsh.lles as against $725,720.85 in the pre- $265,493,806.89.

making an increase in tbe I have here a rlulIS J·enr.

s;honl(!
s;honl(!

pluce In tbe budget a stntement ot statement ot tbe incrcaee In the net debt tor several years and I find In goIng over the lhr>;e "lIrlou8 rallwaye which received this Items ot the net debt, the increasee tor each It Is as tollows: year and the decl'ease which occurred In large amount ot money.
one year, we have this result, that In tlve p'nrs the net Increase ot the debt bas been $9,982,570.92, beIng nn average ot $1,996,514, 18 as against an average tor the previous eighteen years ot $6,563,075, The Increase In the net debt Is accounted tor In the tollowing manner: Capital expenditure on railways linn canals, publJe works.

lncludlng Cann (Han Pacific Railway, $7,2f10.542.65: Dom Inion Innds, $269,000.90; mllltln, $135,884.79: l'allway South Afl'lean c.mtlllJ..'1"'llt nod HaHfax ;;arrlson.
$OOS,lOSIA2, D111kJng a total of ~l1,lJijA!)~.U~.

n ....l\lct the snrplus of $5,648, 333,~.

sinking fnnd 82,480,330.00 nnd a ~Dlflll l'efund In COlll1ectlnll with the :\'orth west 'l'el'l'ltory nelleilion of $1,631.63, or a IIltogether of $8,130,301.82.

and thcre Is nn Increase In the net debt of Atl:llllic and North-western Rallway.$ 186,600 00 M"SH:\wlppl Valley Railway.... 5,37600 en':l1 N"orthc:rll Railway...... 3.15,32311 88,40000 ~"Hlh Shore Railway......
I'<;rn('l:I~ anLl Ri~hmnnd Rallwn.y 132,800 00 ('; n:"lian Northern Railway.... 537,60000 lil'ill'd Trunk Railway 228,371;5 67,2f10 flO r"lIlrnJ OlltarJo Railway...... 170,26~ 'lO ~l;C];,llLl Rnllway.... :\2,800 00 (';'( :.,11'1.11 Paclflc Railway...... OTtawa and Xew York R;\i1W.lY.. 90,00000 II,,, I,,'~' Ol'idl(!!.

74.5,000 St. i\lnl'Y'" lUv~.. RaHway.... ,~.OOO "ll Crow" !\"est Pass RaHway... 205,G24 "ll l'.
'ollnl' nnd PaCific Jun~t!on Railway "Illl Gatlneall Valley Rallw9.Y .. 212,500 00 dl~dllctlon $::?l'i12.328,86; from this subsidies, .,......

.... $2,512,32S SG $2,D86,l00.80.

41; 1287 COMMONS ==== ;==== .

--.

1283 __ 00-= Iand when we show tl surplus In tlle public Imanner as In former Vl.mr.~.

......:.:.:..

;.==-..=:-..=:::= ihounties whlcll al'e uow charged to C:II'h'll ?

nccounts we reacll It In precisely Ow S:llIlC - "'hat about ~~;.-'.4fl:\,Sl~; .~!l 2.!I$l:,I!

!G ~ ,:\11'.

SPROULE.


the iron l!IOO,.

1~1OO-1...

[UCl'I.','\.'"

in ,ldJt in JlIC"~""" 1),-1..01. jn D'1·1'<'='.

"· ill j),·bt.

canllot atr'€'ct .

tll1Y W:lJ' at nil.

- - --.-I.-~-- - .

ct•.

!

s .,:< c:~. '"

-- , Cl __ : surplus?

Tilc :\HKI51'En OF FI~AKCE.

That ill the Question or tlJc (1..'!,t , Mr. SPROULl-:.

You arc tnil.lng al,ollt n .

I .

$ (,t>!.

.

'(1: tblll],; :?,~I;;'i.l!ll; they dill f:ll'gntri...ou.

!

;,~(~I.IJ'5 '1(1 the Jln~t ;.·e:Jt' wllkl!

T!

'I:.1 {UI' li,-,.


,·..'II·~ __ .. Let mc tell th.lt as l'(·SI .. ,,·t~ I 1'1,j'1;:l.~10 G:.l j"j"!I.fo3!17t ______'_ ~.,!lS:?

;;j"O !rJ 1.t1!

)l;,;,\·1]('l :'\f't jlll.n·.,.,· .

', .r"~\l".

.

A'·'·I·a:.

:,· i"""'a"':'Y~lu~ A,,·r.L,:ot,f llly,-:,,.,.fro,,.

'i!I.G::!1 ,I I to the Houlle last v"al' i !

1,1.o1ll1tlt'l'I have hitherto amount"l\ f"ll"l, !

to n eompnrnti\'dJ' stu.1n SUU!.

tlu:~ Illj"S to IS~M; ..

-----.-.-.-- The Increase In tile net debt [n l!

)()()-lOOl Is itile department.


Wilat accounted for as 1'ollows:- these Iron bountie!l ,~-:;=-=-_.--,,..--:~,.-=.

:....-::._----.-=.--_.~.,,---- -- Department.

;',on,II;;; 1:(', 'l'1J~' )llXIS'l'lm.

OF FINA)l'{;K TIl:' i)'un 1~!I;.

:!1:1,;'::":.

',!W; ~,;, 1';!',.;.

2lj;(JI.·~;.

;lt1l; !

'l :!.·111,~::l.j;", ,-,';II' \>I"~""";lt~'1\ 1";!~).

:?m,:.

:7;(..I~I; liU .., ..

:\.,.;,.'.JJ'.".·!

'I' reaSUJJS wlu' 1!~~I..... , :'!li.••• '",;{.&lI; lo>!I,.

:'!l;",\.j~.1l()3 to!l: H~)l. !


\Ye :n'e now proposillg 'to charg.)

Ow il"oi1 :------ ----- --1---- !

l)Quoties to cajlital.

Illy lIuli.

j"!I.n;l!

)'1 friend.

()It" SIJroullJ) till' ,operatlOlls or nIH I spe:Jklug" of, we II;HI not be:;un to e!l:It':-:c .

tbCSt, bOl1lltlt's to capltal, lJut til\) oltl llldhotl that this old '1' contlnued.

1 think.

howe\'er, method was -n verv mlstnken 01lC.

lim· ; pute nothing' but t~c bt'St or motlrt';;.

1,) thE' (It to trt\at it\!

a lIr:lwhaek.


aud to be paid as such hy the CUSIOlll!

I do not SN',l how SOil can pa~' II dra,vuack when no IDOUC~' has urca pnid Into tbe rm-enue, and I tilt· !Ilea ~,.

_"._ of treaUng tbls ns a drawbncl( amI ;;.Illlpl.~ "~'~"04.~ 1.. , I deducting it from UW CniHOIl1~ ,hll.1', :lIld ii~'~~ ~ Imaking .

the customs duty appeal' a good O-'·"~':"k' ~;, !

deal really WilS.

WIl" :I mls- " ~ .,"'~ ov Prom tbe 1st Or July last, we ll:l\'e take.
fJ08,G81 ~2 chao,r;ed that method.

But up to tll:lt uatc IlOW Il,llli,4!l8 (;2 speaking, as regards the surpluses, WI!

COD- tinned the old metbod, and tllcl'c(ore the suggestion of my hon.

lIot 1m· portant.

",u<l Can!

'l", Public Wo[k~, inciudiTl~ C. 1'.

Rttilwnr •.

Il:>.ilwa.v ~l1iHi.1i,·~ South .-I.£I'Ic,,"" C"ntingt;ut ~,~,fH"li.

- .

- - - - antl covering tbe period of which I - - - - - - : gelltlPllwll who IH'CCt'dcd me ill Sillkinll' Fund... fufunds !\'.
\V.l'....[)el· 5,6-18,33329 2.4W,33l> 9O!

1,ll:31 G3 Ca.

}'it"l ~.~l'o('nditnrll 011 Rllil"'a~" lJ<'"I.lnnd b )Iiliti...

dl:ll":.

"'~ \\":ll; less than it L,'~~: SUrl'hli Incr~aSt· Ilt·t di'\)t... the the past year 1 hare SIJoken In tbls statement of I aID sure It I get rid or It altogether.

rrom that.

- - - - - - ~3(,,30~82 1D::e\::~;I~I~II~s~~~ ~~~~eg:~I:~~~~~ ~~~~: :l,9llG,l!IG 80 brought about by some peculiar methou or bookkeeping, but more reeentJ~" 1 Ita ...e noticed In some of tIle puper!=.
u tetHhmCY to argue that eyen it the methotl wns nil old one, It was a bad one, and we il:1I1 ~etler surpluS rcceiYed I eutll'e1y tltssetl t aOlountlog to $5,6-18,333.29.

will be gratifying to know that we al'e nble lili.e CUll from ~'ear to yenr long to present ments of satisfactory surpluses.

jlul> sl't:cI:l I that there Is some criticism on this subject llic works anti from ~'ear to year all to whether or not we 1 sums of money whlcb oh do Jll'('scnt n surplus.
:]lId reason in t!.Le w"rld why deney to represent aC" charged to cnpltal changl.!

tile.

these in accounts, and that the surplus that we re- ~ count.

just 1',.

:,,..-)11 presented WDS somewhat different from the!

tlmt would o\.Jtain with a 00.111 III lIls j)rlva~c surplus(!8 or 1'orlDcr years.

That contention; altaII'll.

: has now been abandoned becnuse we have would chnr:;e the rent ngalnst tllc IIlC01~e ror the ~-eflr.
but 11' he hought n 1111\11"(' w. sho'wll to charge it a~Dlllst ot been no ehange In tbe method of keeping the would llot expect slwclal nCCO);or nCe(lUnts.

p.'~'ln~ officials who keep the accounts are the salDC, and malw sOlDe proylslo11 to\' these SUite-I aua, we shall alwaJ's.

certainly for :l the construction ...f I am a ware' tiaue, require for e\'eI'J' should be TbN'C Is The methods are the same, the Tberc was a ten-!

tailled come.
tailled come.

but would open .1 H a man werc payin,::: from tlme to time tbat cannoL ht· I'cVelllll'.

things of tllat kllill.

from the ordinary tb(!

methods or in n countQ' there was thel'(!

has ,: there Is frIend Is I think, keepln<i during SOIDE' tbat :;;IUIlI' rent lioll.

th,~ :UIl Hoa.

Mr.

FIELDING.

1289 =- MARCH 17.

1902 1290 -----~---=========-_..=== I special or Hear, hear.

In n dlrrCf(>ot woy.

Some hon.

MEMBERS.

Is fair with the Indlvl· Is blr with regard to the aasln of Tbere Is II.
proper distinction tile ordinary expenses of tbe goy.

tbe ilouse.

Wbflt dual The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

My bon.

the nation.

friends eay -' Hear, bear.'

Well, we are betweell for publlc lucky people wnen we can make the two (-'rIUlwnt and 8peelal expeDses ~'orkS.

or exceptional go ·hand In b::t.nd.

We bave received for some the current year to the lOtb ot March, tbla cb:m;£: which should be set apart 8.ud.

tr~':ll('fl am tbere- present month as revenue $3S.Q.l7,~$t.
tore defending not only my Own wethod.

Bavlng regard to the ~elpta of tbe corre.

but 1 om defending tbe metbod Of all poodlng period a year ago; to tbe amouot tbe illustriOUS men wbo bave preceded me whlcb was rreelved rrom this (}ate to the In till' !Jepartment or Finance wben [eJdJn end or that Oscal year, and to the antlclpa Indulge tbat there wllI be tbat tbis Is a proper distinction to m:l.ke food tlon In whlcb I some Inc~Be; I am or oplnloD that we a Ilroll(·r way to treat the accounts.
shall have at the close or tbls CUrN:!ut :renr " revenue ot $56,800,000 (In roond nombers) lUI tlg'alnst an actoal revenoe last yenr or $6~,­ thus be a probable In to the tbus shown, as I bope I have, tbat tbllt !Dethod Is correct:.

and tbat We!

b:n'e!

b:ad surpluses Just precisely as our opponents In some cues bad them, 10,'lte your attention to this record ot sur- plusE'1i.

crease In our nmount ot $4,285,298.

I now 514,701.

There will this yeor revenue Hlll'lng' ~ - - $ 8 ... ct... J>'>ficit.
aurpluaes ahow tbe - - - - - ..- - ._ - - - - , - For the Ont year or thl.

government, we Now with regard to the expenditure.

We the next have expended tbls year up to the 10th ot bad :l deficit or $319,981.44; bnt year we entered upon the era ot sorplnses March, $30,133,502.76; and taking Into ac whlcb Is not yet ended.
The rollowlng count the amount which we expended last tor eacb year from this date to the BOth or June, and tsblE' will malt1nz a1low.nce~ tor a probable Inerea.. rear from 1897 down to the prescnt·: ___.__~~=======~-~_~ during the present year--because there will be some Increase-I am ot oplnlOD tbat at the close of tbe year we sball have an ex penditure In all, probably ot nearly $51, 000,000 In round numberL I make It a shade below that, but tor C!On't'ealeoee we It $51,000,000.
Tbat w1U be an the ex Increase In the e:s:p!ndlture, over :,l!l,~lbl H pendlture on consolidated account tor the put year, ot $4,133,632.
It will be ob- re- served that venue or $4,285,298, and an Increue of u- The two sums It the, exactly balanced one another they would leave us with the same surplus .. lalit year, namely, $5,648,383; but ali the Increase of revenue 18 a UtUe more than the IncrelUle think I am warranted In ot expenditure, sllylug tbat tbe current year wll1 be a little larger tban that ot last }",r II..· I:'; y"D.'" I~t Jul.
", ISjll, In 30Ih IS~Jl.i, th,· t.,I,,1 ~'1I"1'1\1""~ ""..e.. $:..'1,"'Ii2,:llit roll ,\n,II"I"] ,Ieti<:ita ...••..•...••...• U:I,OiiU,f>I.

:l w ll!9ii j U::tl; s. I~ ~.

1~r.1 lllill) .. I~ ••• IlI'l ••.•..•..• :;1~I,!»I1 H would nearly balance one another.

_._._-- _ ._ - - - '1'.,1,,1 t'le:' ,'''''", ;..:.., -"11,1,,'; "" 1: l,i2'1,712 :u ~,II;1j.j~~1 (II,.

o,0CI1,i1" r,l: r•.ti-l:i,3:l3 2'J _______.___ pendlture I estimate llO locreaae ot ct.~ ma, call of $4,133,632.
tbe surplus deficits Is exceptlonally to tbe 30th ot June, 1800, I ",i":::,,,,·t ~1"·J!11l~ H" "" "" e" ......• 'Jf.

- - - - - year and will amount to $5,800,000.

As to the caplrol eJl:p~lllture ot 8 !l,iIOI,jI3 13 rH",lw.!

lit For tbe elgbteen years trom the 1st ot July, 1878, the lotn I liurpluses were $27,862,861.68, and tbe eighteen yelln tOlnl th('8e alllounted to $18,000,048.55.
Deductlng the trom tbe surpluaes we find tbat d('!Icltll durlllg UH..'fie eighteen years the gentlemen tben mnnnging the public atralrs had a net surplus or $9,801,713.13, or an a'l'erage sur pIliI' Ilf'r y(!nr ot $554,539.61; while wo have blld :10 nverage yearly aurplus during our lenu ot oIDce, amountlng t~ $8,948,705.53.

the pre- tbe sent yenr, largest we hllve hlld for aome yenra.
I antlclpate that at the year, we sball have a charge tor capital Qnd spedul e:s:pendlture of $14,250,000, as agalost $11,116,000 lost yeur.

I got the estl· mated expenditure as $51,000,000 In round numbers; Is that right 1 Mr. BORDEN (Halltn).

tbe close ot Inrge; .1"",·.

tor tor It I .

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Thnt Is correct.

We have tbls year very IIpeelnl cbarges to awell the cnpltaJ nccount Our railway subsidies will be considerable, as they were last year.
Tbe Rouse Is nwnre tbat railway operations bave been going on througbout tbe Dominion pretty largely.

We sball 'have to pny for bounties this year, Hltlll:rto I have apoken ot the tlnanclol nrf:llrs ot tbe past year.

Coming now to tb(' albin of the current year; tbere 18 a cou:<Ildernble Increase In the revenue and a c:orrf'spondlng Increase In the expendlture.
1291 COM:llONS 1292 about chargeable tor the ftrat time to capItal ac '700,000, count, There are large the eQuip 8umll chargeable to capital for the Intercolonial Railway wIth ment or 'I'here romng stock and with new raUs.

are large sums tor transportation In the Publlc Works Department.

There Is a verr considerable lIum amounting to $950,000, re presenting the awards to two pro\·lnces on certain questions which were dealt with 18llt sessIon.
For these and other expeudI tures we shall have, as I have alread;r ste.ted, a total ot about $14,000,000 on capi tal account; and the result wUl be that we shall be obliged to make thlll year 4 larger addItion to our public debt than we have done In any previous year In the history or this government.

Mr. SPROULE.

NotwIthstanding the sur pluses.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Notwith standing the surpluses.

00 that point I am going to endeavour to satisfy my hon.
friend that .we have a most admirable record; and It, by and by, In the dim and distant tuture, he Is to stand In my place, and shall be as lucky nR I am, and I should be on the other side of the House, I will congratulate him from the oottom ot my beart.

HOIl.

Mr. TISDAI~E.

A gross expenditure of $65,250,000 ?

The MINISTER 010' FINANCE.

About that.


The amount whIch I anticipate we shall have to add to the debt of tbe Domin Ion for tbe current year will be close upon This wllJ be, as "I have stated, $6,000,000_ the largest addition to the public debt under the present administration, and will be al· most 10 llne with, though n shade abo"e, the addltlQn made to the pUblic debt in the last ;rear of the late government, when the addition was $5,422,000.
You see It hus taken us nve real'S to catch up to them But even with thIs In that one matteI·.

large increase to the publIc debt fot" the current year, we shall still be able to present a very gratifying statement, as to the aver age annual Increase to the public debt-and lion.

gentlemen opposite arc much fonder ot a \'erases than we are.

Ur.

WILSON.

Will you average the In come?

glad under ought to a pockets ot year The MINISTER OF FINANCE.
to very be tariff which takes the than Yes, know we out that the of $4,000, tarltr a 000 would, It had rpmnlned in operatlon under a tariff which has been reduced so much that bou.

gentlemen opposite complain that our taxation Is too low-we are still In the happy position ot having a largely people the less old if Hon.

Mr.

FIELDING.

I If Now, to the public debt.

Increased Income.


Even wltb tbls consid erable addltioD to the public debt at the current year, we shall have a very satisfac tor tory statement ot averages to present; when we have added the $6,000,000, It shall prove to be tbat, to the public debt this year, we shall have made an average yearly Increase ot $2,793,000, as against $0, 503,000 for all the years of our predecessors.
In a country like Canada, think that about all we could be expected to do would be to provIde out of taxation tor om' ordinary expenditure; and It perchance we needed Important wQrks ot a permtluent character, or It there were some exceptional charge, such as bounties, railway subsidies, or the South African war, It would not he entirely wroog If we were to charge e\'ery penny of the cost A ~'oung country like Cnnada might bc placed that position without being regarded ns 'Ill going behInd.
But It she Is able to do some thing better than that, It' she Is nble to pl'l) vide not only for her ordinary expendIture but also for a considerable llllrt of her capi tol expenditure out ot the revenue, theu she Wilkes a "cry fnlr showing.

I hove pre pared a I'ltotement t'or tlle purpose of show Ing what these capital and spcclol charges have been.

I am takIng periods of sIx ~·cars, from 1810 to 1884, trom 1885 to 1890, from 1891 to 1896, and from 1897 to 1902.
My object Is to ascertain what were tbese capl· tal or special charges In each ot these terms, :llld wbat proportion of them was borne out ot revenue, and what proportion passed Into In the first the public debt.

period, from 1879 to 1884, these capltnl 3ud special expenditures amouuted to $12,339, 172, of which $41,799,180 was added to the public debt; so that the government ot thot day were able to provide for these capital and special charges out ot revenue to the extent of 42 fler cent.
In the next period, from 1885 to 1890, these capital and specIal charges amounted to $63,520,739, und during that period there was added to tb(!

publiC debt $55,371,861, showIng that In that period only 13 per cent ot these capital charges was paid out ot revenue, Rnd all the rest was ndded to the public debt.

In the period from 1891 to 1890, $81,306,340 was expended and specinl charges.
of on these capital which $20,004,221 was added to the publiC debt; In othcr words 33 per cent ot these charges was paid out ot revenue and the balance was added to the public debt.
In the IO!lt six years, tram 1897 to 1~, as suming that we spend the amount on capital which l' estimate, and add to the pubHe debt $6,000,000, at the close of this yenr we shal1 have spent $1%,812,572 on these capital and special charges above ordinary expen diture, and we shall have added to the pub lic debt only $15,982,:s70; so that wc shall have provIded for these capital and spedal expenditures out ot revenue to the extent of no less tbnt 71 per cent find that I 1299 MARCH 17, 1902 I of net debt.
Am,ount of ; Pe~Dtllge 'obtained (rom parliament authority tor the ~~r::.

::t.1 InCreaAe C:Pi~ aDd ofcap,lulaIld luue of a loan ot $15,000,000.

There was at I J:di~:: I ·=~ue~.

I t<xpelldi.

tbe tlme a considerable Outlltandlng borrow· log power.

Thus at the close ot that sea· llrovided Olltlpmvided out t tun'.

sloo I had authority to raise loaos to qulte I of I'll"enu... 'of revenue.
, ------ i a large amount So hopeful, liowever, did I teel as to the tlnanclal prospects ot tbe Do- g : ' minion that I C<lncluded to use tlle borrowing I power In a very moderate way.

The loan which I placed on the London mo-••, In the - -- -- --- - ~ per c~nt.

I I $; f ;~339, 1i2 'U,i9'J,TSO 30,&39,392!


I j I ~G2l!,llj ~,.wl,-400 2,9H,19~1 11l;91 t;,32~.Nl6 ll!liOl 9,Hll,121 11\811 8.2!»,0t48 ;.6Oi,52I-·1,i'3l,I_ 188'1 18P3 U,IGS,i28' -I.8D5,063 HjSl1 ~..ia3,lM 23.6"J5,IM .\.76,301' 1$;; Hl2'6,Olii 14,245,841 ~:i :!

'~~~:~~I ~:i~:~1 I~ 1:1,3-15,629 1,216,~ 1~' G.tiOO,363' o!,WB,683 3,liO 1:ol!

'lll ' - - - - - - i li3,a2O,'i39 .

:i5,3iI,3Gl I , 2'i5,818 1591 3,3'~,.w:Jl l!

'1erl ~9,605j IIl!.lJ; 1S!~11 4"i01,981 1 181~f !.


;~.~!, ~,8!l1,~9ll ",422,00,,' Hl!lb - - - , - - :1I,:lI)Ij,340' 20,004,221 01.,,"9,6-10 r...-.oo.242 ~,o;rJ.tij"'; .... ~23,~~ .,141,_-11.

I I I 8,H~,,:r.71· 10,342,I1!1) r I ~,Ii~!

?2.

1fI6' Il!

I r, J 3,0-11.163 l~ 1;':..6I,ii...i 2,Ui,tll"l I~ 9,639,Is.a 2,:lli.04il I' !J,742,UIiI -779.639 l!~tl 1l,1I6,4~, 2,986,1961 I!IO'.

·14.~,OOO, '6.000,000 I -::-;;:-, ",,,1-,-,~o "~'0021 .... ""......., I '''';'''>!

'''.''''

,t> -!

I • EiltiOiated.


With respect to the year which will begin on the first or July next, It Ie mucb too early to attempt anything like close calculatioDB.

I see no reason why we should not look forward to a very bopeful year.

It I may use tbe worde ot Mr. Clouston, the presIdent or tbe CanadIan Bankers' AssoelatloD, all the outward and visible algns still IndIcate IIlat we 8re In prosperous times.
8tUl, tor 'the much will depend on the barvest c(lmlng year, and It Is too tar away tor U8 It we should to make any guess about tbat.

be 80 fortunate tiS to hn\-c In the North-weet another harvest 8Uc.b 8S that ot lut sesson, anf.!

It the general conditions ot Canada con· tlnue us they bave been, we shall Indeed lIo,'c the greatest year In Canada's history.
I tblnk we may look forward hopetully, at the same time not counting too mucb aD those tblngs whIch are sUII 10 the toture; lind It a change should come, owlog to a bad harvest or anythIng ot It will he our duty to obserYe tbe sIgns ot the times, and limit our expenditure accordingly, revenues haa en· nbled us to carryon our large operations tor .some rears Without the luue ot loans In the In the year 1897 1 public money market The buoyancy ot our that 8Ort, ~l!
lls 33 71 • Iautumn ot 1897 was tor £2,000,000, or a little Ibeen Issued.

Our lurplua rennues helped under $10,000,000.

No public loan baa alnce ua to bear a large part ot our capital and special expenditure, and when these proved 11Deufficlent 0~a610nal temporary loane were obtaIned from tbe banke.
We bave now a considerable temporary loan ot this charac- ter, and bavlng regard to tbe need ot pro- \"Idlng tor It nnd for old lonns which will @bortl)' mature In London, It Is evident that we shall at no distant date have occasion to otl'er an ISlue ot our securities to the pub- IIc.

Whether we Ihall do this during the t presen ca en ne It untll r year.
or pos ueJ:t year, when a conllderable sum ot the existing loans maturee, 18 a point wblch wlll have to be <:onsldered a little later, In aC'" ('OI'dance with the condition and pr08pectll of the money market.

We shall bave to ask pal'llnmcnt tor autbol'lty for these 10ll.DS, to 00 used when required.

'l'be exletlng tempo,,,y loan ",,-'bleb I bave reterred to, amounts to £1,250,000, or a Ilttle O\'er $6,000,000.

Tbla Jonn.
Tbla Jonn.

wblch wlJl ma- ture on tbe let of July next, bearl Interest at a shade above 31 per cent, wblch.

having regard to the conditions ot tbe money mar- ket for some montbs pa8t, Is n reasonable rate.

I da too tiate a 2' per cent It we find It necessl1l'y to go 011 the Lon don money market tbls year, I have no doubt that we sball be able to go under Tery favourable condltlonll, tbougb not exactly AS favourable as tbose ot five years ago.
At that time we were lucky In strIkIng the bappy moment when we were able to nego I am atrald that loan.

tbe present condItions of the money market are not a8 tavourable as they wel'e then.

It we may judge by makIng a compnrlson the rates ot Canadian securities wItb ot tho8e ot Englleh consols.
we nnd that at the tIme our loan was placed 00 tbe market In 1897 there Wl\S a very broad dllIereDce be tween the two j but owIog to the high position Canada bn atUlloed In the eyes ot the world, and especially to the cbange brought about by the admllslon of Cnnadlan securities to the English trustee !let.

Cana· dian securities have come much nearer to Eogltlb conllole, although the quotations lower tor our securIties are thaD they were a tew years ago.
So that It this Is a fair te8t ot credit, tbe crelUt ot Canada hRll Improved to a very appreciable degree j and I have no doubt that wben the moment ('omes.

we 8hall be able to obtain our loan on tavourable and re:l.lIOnable termL I han 1295 --_.__._-_.. , ._- _..' ""-'- - " - COYMONS 1296 stated the amount ot the temporary loan.
I the sake ot con,enlence I bave made a state Perbnps It would be convenIent It [ were ( ment-whlch, ot course, can be obtained trom to state also the amount ot the loans which I the Public Accounts In more detall-ot the are likely to mature In a short time.

For Ilo~ns maturIng wlthln the next'three years: WAS!

; IS 1.0:>00:\ "Ar..U:\O nut f1ETWI;F.:\ 1902 10:;0 1900.

Date of Maturity.

I i Name of I.oal\.

-----I-------------I--;;-~-i--;---:-- I. I .

Eqllival",nt i I Year.

in • i Currency.

!


IA t ' 'noun III £ Get. "

1, 1003 1.1000 '11 C. R. Gu>\rantred 4 per oent LoIlIi.

.

.

.

II.C.R.

FllltUllrll.nteed 5 per oent Loan... Api.

1, 100-1 .. ,.

Rupert'a Land Gu&rllntOl'ld 4 ver <:Lnt.... :Loan of 1814, 4 per Ct',nt .

.

Ma.y I, 1904 I·Loa.nOfI815.4per~nt.

1.l!IOU Loan of 1876.4 percent.. Nov. 1,1006 " .

.

.. .

.
.

.. .

.

.... 1.300,000 1,500,000 2,-133.333 500,000 1.4r.o,000 300,000 19,\lGli.666 4,OOO.0l\l) 1,000.000, 4.866.666 2,flOO,OOO (12,166,666 1003 190.1 19lH 1904 IflOa 1006 There will then be no maturing loan until April, 1008.

ItRCAI'I TUI.ATIOX.

1\103••.... 1904 1000 .. 1906 ... .. Total .... £ 2,000.000 4,300,000 1,000,000 2,000,000 H,FlOO,OOO !

I"1 , •.
I"1 , •.

, 9,733,333 2O,92ti.Glili 4,866,666 12,1G6.Gl;/j 47,6%,33.1 statlstlcs There la also a loan ot $2,852,OClO, talUng due In Canada, 1st November, 1903, now bearing 4 per cent.

[n tbe Budget last year I presented In: some detail-possibly with tedious detall-' the wondertul" showIng 8O'lDC growtb ot the trade ot Canada.

i I do not' Intend to go Into that so tully to-day.
but: simply to remind the House that grattrylng 88 was tbe report tor 1900 we are able to show in the year tolIowlng an advance be-' yond the figures ot that date, which Is an i evidence tha t Canada Is Indeed prosperous.

, [ propose to give a very tew Ogures, mali:·: Ing a comparison between the business ot , 1901 and that ot 1900 : ; COMPARATIVE STATISTICS, 1!K10 AND 1901.

Imports tor Conaumptlon-Dutlable.

1900 1901 $104,348,795 105,969,756 ,.. Increase....
., .• .. .. $ 1.622,981 Imports tor Consumption-Free.

1900 1901 .

.

$63,160,083 71,730,938 Total Imports tor Con8umptton, Including coIn and.

bullion.

1900 .. " 1901 .. " .. .. $180.804,316 181.231.988 Increa8C .•..... , ., $ 433.672 Total Impnrt8.

1900.... 1901.... .. .. .. .. .. $189,622,513 190,415,525 Inttea8e.. .. .. $ 793.012 Total Exports.

1900 .

.

.

.

.

.

.. " 1901.. .. $191,894,723 196,481,632, Increase .. ,. "

$ 4,592,909 Total Exports-Produce ot Canada.


Inere8se 1900 1901 1900 1901 " .. " .. " .. $170,642,369 177.431,386 .

, 6,789,017 Total Trade.

.• $S!lI,517,236 386,903.157 " .

Increase .. ,.

S 3,570,865 Increase .. •.

.

_ •.

.

.

, 5,385.921 Hon.

IIr.

11'I1IlLDINO.

1297 -~-----:-=-,-~--~-===r====-=- MARCH 17.

1902 1298 DeposiU by tbe people In the Cbartered Banks.

1:,00 .... 1%1.

.

$277,256.716 315,775,429 •.


Incr~ase .. .. .. .. .. $ 38,518,713 D~pos!tS in tbe SavIngs Banks (Including Post om·;e and Government Savings Bank; the Cit)" and Olstrlct Savln.lls Bank and the C~;sst: d:Economle de Notre Dame de Qu~· IJ(·e).

191)(1 •• ',"'1 .. Increase .. " DlscouDta-Chltt'tered .... 1!\I)<:I 1901.

.. .. Illerene $70,570,193 75,174,053 $ 4,598,1160 Bankl.

$316,634,620 Slll,240,H9 $ 1,606,9~ Note Clre:llll.tlon (Including Dominion notes and Dotes of CUllrtered Banks).
1900.. 1901 .. Increase .. ;71,672.310 76.790,931 $ 5,118,621 Rallwltl' Trame-Tons carried.

1900 1901.

.. .. Increase .. 35,946,183 36.999,371 1,053,1118 These ll.gures briell.y recount the great advance Indeed 1n 1901 over the year 1900.

I have at hand a lltatement ot the trade ot the put eight monthll ot the current year, and It 1s pleasing to see that that also continues favourable: - -========'=====--~===~-== EIGHT )1O~THS TRADE, PRl-;SENT YEAR UIPOIIT8-KO)[E OOliIlU)lI'T10:>".
EWIl'I" MOliTHiS E/;'lmW FKBHUAWi.

------------------------1----- lOOt.

1002.

I • • --------I 68.3W,018 413,121,536 74,368,939 49,452,300 - - - - - - - - - - - W3,821,239 4,563,824 ------- ------- 114,486,56-1 3.267.5U , ___ 1_1l7':i">4'~;_128'~~'oo.

'l ... 18,864,16::1: 2O.~!l::!,OO3 nllli~l,h: U,....d~.. "r,,·l;,.~I~ .

Cui" .11,,1 Bullion.

Total .... Groml Totlll D\l~r oollect.,d.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------ --- EWHT MOliTlllj F.linlX'; }·t:Bltt".\HY.

, i 1-- -'90'-_----------1002.


- - - - ,-------- - - _____________ i~OIllMltiC.

I_FOn'i~_Dollll~I_FOreign.

, , , , , , TI,,· .\Ii",·.

.

.

.

.

.. ..

I'i.. h.·,·i,·".. 1', .,,,,[ •.

_ .

.

.

.\!li"",1.

"ml th~i,· ProduCtl .

.\.

:-ri"nhll"" .

\b'I',factll"'·' .

\1 i>o,,·llall.....,,~ .. .

(·.,in :0'101 n"Uion Totnl :-'ferehnndisc .

I:.Ifo,4S9,ZtlIi I 12,8lG,0flIl 1,1l0,,07 Illi.H3 lW,6i!
'.43!1 1-13,92(l,B05 --------'-------------'------------- 135,200,221 1299 COMMONS 1300 that last, shows tlonal dltrerence, Thul the ltatement tor the eight month, therefore, was In toxour goes to show that the IndIcations tor boel· ot Great Britain.

Practically, bowever, on the buslnesl ot lut year tbe two tn'erage ll.etlI during the current year are so far ex- ceedIngly good, and I see no reason Why we rates were the aame.
How doel!l thll com Ibould not lOOk torward to • continuance pare with prevloue condltlonl 1 One would ot ,ood bUllnee.. the erltlctama that tariff tbe previoul Is the gratltylng Increase reported by the.

bore more Ugbtly on Brltlsb as compared Department of the Interior wltb regard to tbe Iwith American gooda.

Bu.t what Are the auume from some ot A teature which deserve.

a puslng remark have been otrered that examination lot wltb us.

announcement tbe late go,·ernment.


goods with Imports price 18 general consent splendid development ot From the returns of n closer that American dutiable goods-tbat There haa been much dJlleUsslon ot tile great work of fllIln~ up preference_ Leaving out In the year 1896, under tbe tnrltr Immigration.
Not only trom the old country tacta ~ tbe average duty la there- a moderate Increue, but a Dew of featnre has been Introduced of late 10 the on dotlable Imports from the United Stat~ very large Increase of Immtgratloo from the was 26oR!l.

In the same year the average United States.

Some portion of tbl8, no duty on Brltlm dutiable ImportJs W!lS 30'20, 18 made up ot Canadians 'COming showing n dUl'erence against Great BritaIn doubt, back, wbUc the others are people who bave of nearly 4 per cent.
Thus.. even taking been settled In the United States tor yean the averages, It wHi be seen that under tile and Who are now coming aeross the line.

operation of our tariff a discrimination of I need hardly say that they are the most about 4 per cent agllinat Great BritaIn hns desIrable clan ot Immlgranta, and we ougbt been wiped out, until now there III a small to feel pleased tho.t so many are caltlng In dUl'erence In tavour ot Great Britain.
But their stili morl' trom the returns of home- clearly bow tbe present tariff haR operated Immigration, stead entries, from tbe returns ot lIales of favourably to British trade.

The Rritlsh from the prefereuce does not apply to all goods.

By land by the railway eompanlell, recent It has been decmed well the advnncln{; of private lands throughout tbe to exclude certain articles such ae wln(lS.

North·west, we are led to the conclusion spirits and tohacco from the benefit ot tile tbese non-prder that.
at the North-west has begun in earnest.

There enee articles and comparing Imports of II reason to believe that we may look tor- British dutiable of ward to tt Is to say, taking Into consideration all the articles to great territory durIng the next tew yeara.

late wblch the Brltlsb preterence applles--I tlnd about tbe operation of onr tariff as rellpecta that while tbe average duty on AmerlCfln Imports from Grlllt Britain and the United goods Is over 2,1!

per cent, the average duty States.


Leaving out ot consideration the on British goods Is only a. sbade above 21 question of free goods.

Rnted tbat on the dutiable goods Imported If any Importance Is to be attached to the al"erage nlte of duty baa actually been this question ot the relatl,·e duty 00 British higher on British goods than on American.

and American dutiable goods.

It II well that Thlll"lItatement of the average dntles.
even we should have the tacta and figures clearly It correct, may be IlO presented 88 to be ltated.

80wewhnt misleading.

I desire England a quantity of ftne goods on which to draw attention to the flgurell with rE'gard the dutlCfl are considerable, and from the to our Increased trade wltb Great Britain.

United States a qnantlty ot goods of another It Is not quite clear to me, by the wny, clan on wblch the duties are low, you mtly whether some ot my hOD.
trtends opposite IItrlke an average wblch will ICC!m to show ret;ard an Increase ot trade with Gr<'o.t that the duties on Brltlsb goods are blgh~r.

Britain as desirable or not.

Therefore, the spp11catlon ot tbese figures Is somewhat But If thC!

comparison be made ot the duties Some hOD.

gentlemen profess to In anyone C101lS of goods, the rellult wl11 difficult.

be quite dlfferpnt.

No ftgures of this kind view all.


'With Grl'at trade Increase of think we respecting avC!rft"es cnn sbut out from vIew BritaIn tavourably, while otberll trom Great the simple tact thnt tbcre nre no duties on OU"]lt not than 011 AmerlcRu, IBritain.
However British good!l Is \10 and tbat with the exception of n tew artlclC!l doubtedly the case that we expected that whlcll nre excluded trom the preference lour trn<1e with Great BrItI\ln would be In· tbe duties on all British Imports are just creased under I one-third lellS than on sImilar goods trom have bere the ftgures Ibowlng the Imports: the United States.
As a matter ot tIllporu tor con- awnpt!oa-mere!landlse only, dutiable Il.nd retI)leCting the statements however, levying ot hlgber average <1l1t1es on British tree than on American dutiable Importa a pp e a r ' to be By referring to the l895 ~.::::.

'::: ..

:::.::.:.

:: Trade and Commerce Report (part 1, page It will be fonnd thnt the, a'·erap;f' rate 1st 15) of duty on Brltlsl1 dutiable goods last year lI99 '1'4824'74, while the average rate on AmerI· 1900 can dutiable goods was 24'83.

The me- 1$01.
The me- 1$01.

31 ~9 ~~ ~ •• '5fI~ :: ~::jjtm n.,l43,461 36.9Zt.3~~ '(4,%7~';f- ~ 42.".

tact, Trade with Gr~at Brluln.

As bearing upon tblll, qUCfltlon, It bas been repre- per CInt.

to buy "0 muCh the preferential that may be, If you bu)' Inaccurate.

I1lgher tarltr.

trom _.. _ the It _ , Hnn_ 14r.

J'tELDING.

1801 MARCH 17.

1902 13011 products, follows: E71)Ol"19 Product!.

1895.

U~6.

1897.

1898 1899. l!l('(I. l~(Il.

Now, It will be obaerved that, uDder the old tarl!!
', the Imports from 1800 to 1897, from Great Britain decreased.

Under the new they began to Inerease and ran up tarltr, to O\'er $44,000,000.

And, althouwh last year, they dropped a Uttle, they are far and away above any f1guree that eauld be quoted of any time under the old tarl!!'.

But, my hon.

frlenda opposite may not-attach much Then, per Importnnce rto the Imports.

I hapa, wJll give tlrBt the exports of gooda pro duced In Canada: they will consider the exports.
Exportll or Homs Produc.. 1~95..... 1896...... lS~7 ..... 1898.... 1899.. 1900...... 1901.

_. to Great BrItaIn.

$57,9'J3,564 .

&2,717,941 69,533,852 93,065,019 S5,113,6~1 ~6,5~J,8'i5 92,857,';25 But, If we conalder both home Ilnd foreign the figures of our exporta are as to Gr~at Brl:aln, Homo) nnd For81gn .
: •.. $ 6t,856,:l90 66,689,253 77,U7,502 104,998,818 99,086.98t 107,73~,~68 10~,328,956 So, thus far, our trade with Great Britain bas enormously Inereased linee the adoption of tbe preferential tarl!!'.

Mr. SPUOULE.

Can the hon.

gentle- man (Han.

Mr.

Fielding) give ua the ligures with regard to the United States 1 The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I be lieve my hon.

friend (Mr. Sproule) asked that e:l:Rct queatloo at this exact moment lust I should have remembered tbllt and brought the flgorea.

:n'ar.
:n'ar.

:\lr.

SPROULE.

Let me say tbat I never 8sked the questlon In thla Bouse betore.

lt may be that the late Mr. Wallace, then representing Wetll York aaked It.

The MINISTER O}~ FINANOE.

And IU~' hall.

frIend (Mr. Sproule) Is that gentle mUll'S worthy successor In leveral reBPeets.

I ha \'1' not the figures here.

But we know that the Imports tram the United States llU:I'(,I1ISL'(1.

We Imow that the trl\lle with the whole world has lncreaaed.

Some han.

MEMBERS.

The MINISTER 010' FINANCE.


We can f10t help It, Sir, Ie Increasing under the rule of thll beneficent government.

trade In all dlreetlonl Bear, hear.

Mr. MACLEAN.

We got Informtl tlon frum the bon.

member tor North Nor folk (:\h'.

Charlton).

tbat The .lIINISTER OF FINANOE.

Theo, friend want It again?

w·by does my hon.

What are we wllstlng time for?

Mr. MACLEAN.

We bope th-at the Min Ister of }'tnance has profited by It I that, remember The MINISTER OF }'INANCE.
The for North Norfolk brought han.

member forward the fact prominently.

regret that It has not made a dlleper Impression on hon.

gentlemen opposite.

This question of how far the Importl from Great Britain have been at!eeted by oor preferential tariff has been more or lesa, a matter of debate.
In the last Besalon of I the British parliament, that dlltlngalshed ltatesman the Chancellor ot the Exchequer, Sir Michael Hlcka-Beach, In the debate 00 the sugllr duties, during which reference was ,made to the Canadian preference, said, In terms very gratifying to all Canadians, that, w.blle they appreciated very much the step that Canada .bad taken, the value was to be looked for, more In the good feeling the that had been manIfested material results to trade.
than In and cold tryIng to blow hot Some han.

MEMBERS.

Hear, hear.

'l'he MINISTER Ob~ FINANCE.

My hon.

friends opposite say: Hear, bear.

I suppoae they think likewise, and If they think like wIle, what becomes of the atatements that uo.\'e been made for some time now that the Increaaed Imports under the preferential tarl!!'

are destroytng some of the tactorles ot Canada?

I am RJ'rald my han.

friends on are tuot matter.

I caollot find out whether they w'8nt toot trade to Inerease or not.
At one moment they complain the trade 18 not In creaalng under out preference, you will tLnd a column of statl.8tlca In the Conlervatlve papers designed to prove that there has been no Increase at all, and tbe next thing we are told Is that the preference Is ru1nlng the factorlell of Canada.
However, earning back to my erle-nd, Sir Michael Ricks-Beach, I felt at the time that the statement, while made In good faith and made In terms Which will be plealing to all Canadlanll, was based upon a misconception of the situation.

In the first place, the actual Increase of trade us IIUOWll by tbe figures 1 bave given, Js "ery con8lderable.

Then there 18 another point to wulch I fear Sir Michael's attention 1lad not In view of thc !

!evere com been drawn.


petltlon which Is now going On between tue United States and other manufacturing lluUons, It, with tbe preferellce of one·thlrd 111 favoul' of Great Britain, we have only !Jeen able to Increase' BrItish Imports to a IlmaU amount, what would ua"e happened to tile trade If there had been no preference nt all?

Sir, I have no doubt In the world that but for the British preference, that ad vance In the Imports.
from Great Britain would not have existed at all, there would not have been any Increase tn tbe Imports from Great Britain.

There 18 not much doubt but that, without the change thla gov ernment made In the tarllr, the Imports from Great Britain would have continued to drop as they dtd from the year 1895 down to 1897.

1803 COMMONS 1804 Tllel'C was one Incident during the past )'cal' wlJ.lch calls tor mention In the Budget In the Tariff Act ot 1897 there \Val I>peecb.
the following clause: regard Section 18.

Whenever tbe Governor in CaUD ell tin rel\son to bellev6 that wILli to any aMlcie of commer<:e there exlBtlI nny l"lI.t, comblnatloo, assocIation tof agtjcment ot any k'od alDong manufacturer.
of such article or dealeu therein, to ulldUly enhance the prl:e or web article, or In any way to 'Indoly pro the UlJ.llufacturel'8 or mote tlte advantage of dealers at the QHcrnor In Connell may commlulon or em power ..ny Julge of the Sup1;'ilmc Courl or Ex cheQ.uer Court ot Cana:la, or of any superior III any province ot Canada, to Inqulnt In court a f,ummnr:r way Into and report to the Gov ernor III: COUD,:lI whetber euch UUlIt, combin ation, as,oclatlon or agrcemolot ~xl~t&.
tbe expeD"" or the COn!llrol~r8.

2, Tbe Judge may compel tbe attan<!..

o~" of w't 00lI"~ and exsmlne th~m' uDder oatb.

aDd re Q.ulre the prodlictioD (of book.

and papers, and Ihall hll.\"e ae luch othl'r Oec<!SSI'lTY are conferred 'lpO:l b1m by :he Gov~rnor In CouDcll tor the purpoe" 01 :loDY auon In.qulry.

3.

It the Judge rllports thut such trust, com UnaHoo a~~clatlon or agrc.
'il~Dt exl::ttll, and It It appeare '0 the Ooveraor In' Coull~lI tl:lol.t Iuch dlladval:tage to the COOllUm&rI 11 facili tated hy tbe dutlel of cuttO>J1ll Imvoaed on e. th"11 the Gov('fo<>r like article, wlllln Imported.

the In COuocli should place auch article 00, fT~ Ult, or &0 to rIve to the public the beoellt of Teuonable c"mpetltloo 10 such artlcll.

red'lr.e ~be duty on It pf'...·OrH ...


It provided tbat When the section was fl.rst submitted to the House, the Governor In Council sbould be the body to determine wIlen the combine existed.

On turther con sideration, however, It was deemed uowlse ror the government to take to Itself so large o power.
It WIlS thought that In a matter or so mucIl Importance It would be better, even ut the cost 01' some delay, to make use 01' the judlclo.l macblnery tor the purpose 01' the authority ot the luquII'J and to I1mlt government to action ntter the report 01' a Judge.

In several Instancea complllinta were mnde to the government undel' this clause, but UI)OO examinstlon they did not appear to cowe witllln the pl'ovlslons 01' tbe section.
A rew montlls ago, bowever, complaint waa IllluJe by tbe Canadian Presa Association In terws willeb were tound to come within the Intention 01' It waa alle"ged tllat tlle manuracturers of news printing paper bad tormed a combine for the purpose of unralrly enbanclng tbe price 01' the ar The mlltter WIlS reterred under the ticle.

pl'ol'llIions of tbe section to Mr. Juatlce Tascllerenu, who held a protracted Inquiry, concerned, and finally beard all repol'ted that the PloellS Association was well rounded.
Thereupon, tile government, exercising the power given It by the aectlon, determined by Order In Council to reduce the duty on printing paper such as Is commonly used tor newapaper lJUI'!JOSes, to 13 per cent To dlstlngulsh between news print and other the reduction papers, It waa decided that tbe complaint of trom 25 per cent the aectlon.

parties Hou.

~lr.

FIELDING.

tbe should nppl~' to all prlntlng paper 01' That, value 01' 2i cents per pound or less.
tbe "alue In Canada, or course, means not the ,·"Iue for customs purposes-the lJut Vlllue Ilt tlle place 01' productlon abroad.

It bns been represented to ua that while tbe purpose ot the government will be elrected as re8Jjccts the dally journsls, the proprietors or ,which buy In large quautltles, It may not cover the case 01' the weeKly papers, which do 1I0t buy lu aucb large quantities.
'l'he Press Association Is to furnlah us witb furtber Intormatlon on that point, nnd It It be found tbnt the words used In our Order In Council do not properly eftect the object In view, an amendment will have to be mlldp..

I ha,-e no doubt tbat tbe results 01' tbls InquIry will be oJ' material advantage to the publlsbers or the Dominion In the maklng 01' their arrangementfl with the Cana dian paper manutncturcra.
Beyond thill Im mediate reault, however, the proceedings are Intereatlng and Important, and they will serve to remind otber manufacturers that 1t they make an untalr uae OJ' any advan tage which Is given to them by the tarta, n remedy Is open to thoae wbo will take proceedings under tbill section ot the Tarlft Act.
We have again been approacbed by a large and Influential delegation repreaentlng tbe Ontario Beet Root Sugar Aasoclatlon to ask that a bounty be gra.nted OD tbe producUon 01' beet root suge.r and a similar appUcntlon came trom Prince Edward Island.

A new auggeatlon Is offered by IIOme 01' tbe parties connected with tbe movement, the Industry be encouraged by a conalderable in re crease In the customa duty on augar.

gret tbat we are obliged to take an untavour able view 01' botb these proposala.
Sugar la an arUcle oJ' prime nccesslty, universally used In Canada, and already we have a con dlderable cuatoms duty.

Snch an InCl'efl.se 01' the taxation on sugar aa was asked \vould Ilardly prove acceptable to tbe sugar con sumen 01' the Dominion, and should not be adopted without urgent reasons.

Nor are we sntlsfied that even tbe beat Intereatll of the beet sugar Industry would be promoted by the grantln&" 01' the aid that Is aske4'.

'We have to remember tbat IIOme yearl!


ago Canadn undertook to encourage the beet augnl' Industry by tbe grunting OJ' bounties, and that the resulta were not antlafactory, '.rhe capitalists who Invested their money 10llt It, and everybody concerned In the move ment disappointment.

~atllrally, In the preaence of that tact, we ahould be more than usually caretul In en tering again upon a policy 01' granting bonn tlf'~ tor tbls Industry.
sulrered a aevere tbat I It 19 represented that the advantages of the province 01' Ontario, and I suppose the aame will be claimed for otber provinces which are raising tbe question, are mucb greater tbe eastern townsblpa t9r raIsing beet augar, an and also claimed than were poueased such that by 1s It 1305 MARCH 17, 1902 130<1 I It In lOent the me.

eluded not think, however, the good torllI.

In addition to tbat In the tarllI tills scssion, three tactorlcs are at the present AprIl, 1903.
In the course ot coostructlol).

ntl \'allce bas since been wade III the wanu· wallufacturers to the granting ot tblB prlvl.

lege ot tree admission.

They 8/1y that this tacture of machinery and thodlJ ot manutadurlng beet root sugar machinery Is now largely made In Canada as to ensure the success ot the enterprise and they do not see why we should go now.
1 think tbere Is something In that and J abroad tor It that the that the conditions which exist to-day are' reason 011 which our pre,'lous actlon was sllch as to A"ive that Industry a tall' trial It based n year ago stili holds good.

The argu.

It Is naturany adapted to the soli ot Canada.

then used was that where the pro Onr CUl<toms duty, which runs as high as motel's ot an enterprise ot that character tor machluery It t:1.2(j per 100 lbs.

or a cent and a qnarter a ,vlsh to make a contract lb.
on the highest grade ot sugar, while It Is Is nn advantoge to them to be able to make dl'~lg-nro for I'evenue purposes will provide a contract with one manutacturer, so that he all Inclrlental protectlon tor beet root suglt1' can talte the contract tor the Whole ot the pro<!ucClt In the country.
The competltlon machlnel'y, make It where he pleases, be trom COl'elgn beet sugar Is likely to be less held responslhle and guarantee tbnt the kcen hereafter as It seems to be settled that macblnet'y will be sufficient tor the success the continental bounties on this artlcle,whlch tul operation ot the tactory.

We have con to propose nny cbanges In the have so long bad a disturbing Influence on tlH" world's sugar trade, are about to be sugar dutles, or any bount,.

on beet root abolished.


sugar, but to extend tor another year the In addition the Ontario govern· ml'nt h:n'e granted a bounty ot boU a cent term In which certaln machinery and rna :1 Ill. for two years and ot one--quarter ot a terlals tor the erection ot beet root tactorles ('('nt a lb.
tor the tblrd year, but limited to may be admitted tree, This privilege wlll $7;';,000 per annum, and I understand that therefore be extended to the first day of at II':1st Dlomrnt 'Ye do not propose to make !lny changes In I do not tor a tlw.t province.

They are certain to go on- I one ot them Is already stnrted-and I am In· moment claim that the tarllI Is pertect.

dined to think that a tourth Is In a tall' way tblnk, that, on the whole,lt hu proved a very the to lJelug erected.
estnbllsllmeut ot the Industry Is no longer circumstances under wblch our reo Is a certainty In the vision took place, when we remember the pl'oblematlcal but have very complicated nnd difficult problem with Nortb·west Territories, .we may well con· cowe In trom the soutb and are erectlng a Which we had to deal, refinery In Lethbridge.
With the aid which gratulate ourselves upon our success In de vising a tarltr so well adapted to the reo has been given In the way I have dekcrlbed, with the Incidental advantage derived trom qulrementa of the country, a tarllI under the customs duty on sugar, with the abol1· wblch Canada has prospered In a greater tion ot the bounties on contlnental sugar, degree than In any previous period In her with the advantage ot the Ontario bonnty history.
I have occasionally pointed out {be reasonable measnre ot as respects tactorle6 In that province, and desirability of a stablllty.

Nothing would be more with the turtber advn.ntage we have given tartlr the beet root sugar Industry ot the tree ad· Ilkely to unsettle business than a practice mission ot machinery and structural Irou ot cbanges.
trequent for the purposes ot beet root sugar tactorles, Hence, we have resisted applications tor I :1m Incllned to think that there are snm· mOllY small cbangs and we think It well to do so to-day.

But I would not have It cient Indncements to enable the promoters to give the Industry a tall' trial It It Is ad· understood that this view can always be npted to the soli ot the couutry.

I thInk It held.
I thInk It held.

As time pllSBeS, conditione cbange In would be a mistake It we were to give our own country lind It will be well tor ns to take Dote ot this, so that we may adjust rurthet' old which might result In eneourag· 11Lg the erectIon ot a large number ot tact· the tarU:r accordingly.

Nor Is that the onlJ' orles which might come to grlet, require some change.
t'easoo that might I thluk It Is better to encourage the Industry In this Conditions orlse In other countries of which moderate way, to have three 01' tour tactorles we are obliged to take account.
We do Dot III the province ot Ontario and one In the propose that we sball stand stiD and that XOI'tll-west Territories estabUshed so as to tbls tnrltr shall remain unchanged, hut we think the tlme Is not opportune tor making gil'e the Industry a talr trial than that we sholllrl encourage the stnrtlng ot tactorles changes at present.

all over tile country which might end In lIJs:lster, There are several I'easons wblch operate In our mInds against entering upon a policy _ 01 tariff cbanges to-day.
We have juet com· pleted the taking ot a census and wblle some ot the results are available others ot to be prepared, cnd on the first day ot Aprll, hut we pro- Among these are the returns ot the opera· \l,ose to extend that tor another year.

Per- In cooslderlng the relation to the Industries ot tbe Imps I ought to say that sowe objection on the part ot Canadian country, It Is desirable that we should have clullery tree of duty wlll &OOn end.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

'r " r. SPROULE.


The right to Import rna Indeed, when we rl'Cali torllI It will much ImportAnce have yet tloos ot our Industries.

there has been torllI Introduclng Gentlemen tarl1r III 07 COMJolONS 1808 Is what I admit Such Is not to Germany, we have theretore been disposed.

!Ol'e us, with ample time tor COD81dera-ltt Is neteseary to ~lnt out that tl:le petTI!
the Industrial statistics ot the r«ent eges which Germany lost were not prlvU m, regeS which rlghttully' belonged to any DSUS.

Mr. SPROULE.

What about the market foreign nation, but privIleges which pro rdenen ot Weat York who have been perly belonged to the tamlly circle ot the British Empire.

Germany might reasonably -lug on promises?

ask that ber products bave as talr treat· It there ment In our markets 88 the products ot any rue 1tUNISTER OF FINANCE.
'e ally people who have been living on i other foreign country.

But she ought not to demand that her products should have omlses that they were.

BeCUR- the same treatment as the products ot our moo to do tor eighteen years and they will ld It very euy.

A further reason against motber country aud our sillter colonies.

'eaent cbange Is that we are having cer· Public men In Germany appear to have re In negotiations with other countries In celved tbe Impression that the action of 19ard.
to trade of a more or les8 formal Oanada wall In &Ome way a dillcrlmination Ulrncter.

We are not without bope that agaln8t Germany.

the cusc.

e will be able to broaden tbe ICOpe or our Canada bas been quite wlillng to glv.e to the productll of Germany the same treat- eaty with France, though of that I am not a poaition to make any definite state- ment as Is given to the products of any ent.

Much hall been said In regard to our other foreign nation.

That, It seems to us, ,lations wltb Germany.


My Impression Is is all that Germany can reasonably ask.

lat there bas been a misconception on the We are Inclined to think that the action lrt or the German authorities as to the of Germany has been the result of a mis )sltton of Oanada.

Our position on this understanding of the Oanadlan policy, and to exer uestlon Is etrong In respect at that Ie no rea60n why we should Ignore clse a large degree of patience In having Ie German side of the matter.
tlJe matter very clearly put before the Lat there Ie a colour of excuse tor the post- German government.

We are hopeful that on which Germany hae taken.

Ae I have our representation of these tacte will In the olnted out on a prevloue occasion, Ger- end brIng about a better understanding ot 1'8ny has two tarUh one tor the world the matter.
Our trade with Germany Ie enerally, the other, k~own aa the conven- 1I0t at present very Important to USj although onal tarltl', tor thoee countrIes which have what trade Is I sup- ngalnst ue, the value at our exports to that )mmerclal treatlell with Germany.

than ose many han.

gentlemen will 88.y that this (.

'ountry has been increasing rnther I sound policy.

Germany had a treaty with IdiminishIng.


Neverthelese, at a time when in an 1m- we are stretching ont in all directiOns for ianada or Canada partlclpatetJ.

erial t~eaty with Germany and under that extension at our trade, to "eaty Canada had the adva~tagetram what desplee the opportunltlee which mtght come I called the conventional tarltl' as respects to nil under talrer arrangements with Ger ~eslde8, the principle Involved In ianadian prodncts.

Oanada put an end to many.


bat treaty tor her own purposee tor good Germany s action Is Important, and on that reasons.
Not one' party In account, as well as tor the posslbllltles at a nd sufficient larger trade, we should make every etro~t lanada, but all of Canada, reached the con- luslon that this treaty wae not In the best 1 to have the matter settled in a satisfactory way, There are those who have advocated ana a, or of the empire, and retallatory legislation as the only means at o.terests at : should come to an end.

Our sister colonies Isettlement.


We are hopetul that better results may be obtained by a patient pre oak the same view on the subject.

But It 788 admIttedly the action ot Oanada above sentatlon at the tacts.

Another and stroDA"er Jl others which brought about the denun- Immediate cbanges In our latlon ot the German and Belgian treaties.
Is the preaent position at our trade Yhen we ceaeed to have tbat treaty with relations with the mother country and with .ermany, when we ceased to extend to our sister colonies.

We are about to par ~ermany certain privileges which she had tlclpate In two Important conterences to njoyed, Germany withdrew tram us the tnl.i:e place in London.

One or these bns 'rivlleges at tarltl'.


Can- been called at the suggestion ot our gOY tda thU8 came Into the class at non-treaty crnment tor the special purpose of consider.

~ountrle8.

the products at wlJlch were sub- Ing the pOll8lbllltles at eniarglng the trnd<' eet to the higher tarltr.

Let us not deny.

between Canada, Allstralla and New zen hat tram one point ot view there W88 eome 1 land.

The otber conference Is ot n hroadcl" .

'Olour of excuse tor the German action.


character and bas been clllled by the 110 But a more careful examlnatlon at the perlal government.

The ceremonies nttend luestlon must In; the coronation of the J(lng will take to .he action at GermnDy, while It mlglJt bo.

"e London representathe public men (I'om 'all lad an flppearance at fairness, was balled parte at the empire, and the Imperial gal'.

lpon a misconception of the spirit and pur-- ernment desires to 0.
"0.11 Itself at the appal" It Is true that we tunlty to discuss vnrlo\ls matters, ineJudln:: lOse of Canada's policy.

wlthdra~n from Germany tarUI queet!ons of trade and commerce atl'ectln:: lave the Intereets of tbe empire.

Onnada will lrlvileges which she formerly enjoyed.

But lead to the conclusion that reason against tArll'f called the balance of Its coll"entlonal Is not well is It C d HOD.

Mr.

FIELDING.

1809 MARCH 17.

1902 1310 I am atrald tbat my bon.


be expected to take an active part In tbe Mr. R. L. BORDEN (Halifax).

Mr.

Speak consIderation oC these questions, and at the er.

friend tbe clolle ot these conferences we aball be In Mlnlster of Finance 18 taking too much possession of a knowledge of tbe dJ8poaitlon comfort to himselt with regard to the rela o!
otber portloos of the empire which will tlOD of t~ Budget to tbe 881nU' dara, In undoubtedly be valuable to UII In the COD- &I much as be Intended to deliver biB Bud alderatloD ot ADY proposed tartif' changea.

Induced do not nnderestimate the dlmculUe.

In the blm to change bia mind and to deliver It way ot brlo"glng about BUch trade relaUoDII on St Patrick's day.

within tbe empire as are dealrable trom tbe Canadian point ot view.

our duty to avail ourselves of the oppor- dlly.


tunlty to discuss these matten with the public meu of tbe other parts of the empire Mr. BORDEN (Halltu).

aequlesced and to use every eaort tv bring about aucb wltbout a moment's hesitation to tbe lug Impro'fed arrangements as would be benl- gestlon of tbe Minlater of Finance that It fidal to Canada a.nd to tbe empire.

The YIN1STER OF FIN..L.'XCE.

But my III bOil.

friend (Mr. Borden) wanted It on TUe& I get speech last TburlJda, ahould be del1Yered t<HIay.
However, and I It I For these reaBOns we postpOne for the Some bon.

MEMBERS.

Hear, hear.

In In tbts 8honkt to arrlve at relation.

wltb the Salntl!l.

Tbe MINISTER OF FINANCE.

between Canada and Germany.

Some hon.

MEMBERS.

Hear, bear.

tarll!

hon.

gcntleman h08 presented to-day, present tbe question of turlfr revision.

When Mr. BORDEN (Hallfu).
I am bound to the moment for revision arrives, the publtc say tbat It tbere Is not more consolation for of Canada may rest assured that the gov- tllnt grand old Island acro" the sea in the ernment will undertake tbe work In the matter of public eIpendlture, than there II for Canada In ,the Budget speech whlcb tbe spirit of moderatlou and caution thnt bas Ire prevailed In their past actions affairs, avoidIng tbe extremes which almOlt land wlll not have much to comfort herselt always find advocates, and having regard wltb.
to what Is best, not tor particular Indultrlel or particular sedlonl ot tbe country, but tor the Interests ot the people ot the whole servatlon or two about Dominion.

Before dealing ·wltb the main matter In the Budget speech, I wllh to make an ob the tarll!

relations It seem.
relations It seem.

Tbe Budget, Mr. Speaker, baa trIendly to me remarkably late In tbe day tor the Finance Minister tbe con- cluslon tbat otbe potIttlon taken by Can be pressed ada: respect It wlla upon tbe attention of tbe German govern· on the morning of St. George', da" ave ment.

For about three yea~ Canada hal reflrtl ago that I bad the bonom to place been excluded from the benefltl ot tbe Ger- on the Table et thl.
House the tar1ff relKlln- man minimum tariff, and althougb we CD tlons containing that principle ot Brttl,b this side blld pressed the matter on the preference which baa given IKl mncb aatlg.. attention of thts government session after faction to all wbo bonour St. George and &eflslon, tbe Minister or Finance Is only now Merrie England.

This ye-ar onr Budget II s.wakenlng to the tact tbat It Is des1rllble to bring the true &tate ot atfalrs to tbe at lIubmltted on Ireland's day ot reJoicing.
tentlon ot Tbls Is St. Patrick's day, and trom the top.. government.

We root ot our parliament House the blLye been nrglng upon the bon.

gentleman most tbree yean Brltlsb fiag files In bonour or tbIs OCCAsion.

and upon the government for past ,that this matter should be dealt with VIgorously and promPtly; ond thougb It Is somewbat late In the day ter the Canadian IWmethlng suggestive In the coincidence.
It government to tblnk or taking action, It Is seems to remind us tbat, gratifying aB Is better late tban nev<r, and I bope our gov the story we ll.re uble to tell of tbe material ernment will move at once.

The Minister of Finance 1l8serted tbnt tbe there Is some- prOb'T(!SIl or tllln~ tbat Is more pleasing stilI.

It Is the census returns Rre dlsnppolntlng.

Tbey are n·rY!.lllrwolilous a.nd happy relations which disappointing to all ot us.

But when the prcYrl1l between our people ot all lIectlonll, 110n.
gentleman Rlserts that the Increase Is Clflllllf'1l and creeds.

Rere In tbls broud due entirely to the Inst five years he assert.

Dominion we ban a populatIon drnwn from thnt the omclal statementl wblch bave from lll:lny time to time been presented by tbe gov .

'n'nch.

Scotch, Irlsb.

Welsh.

German-all ernment nre llbllOlntel,.

ml!llendlnjt Rnd In cherishing tbe memorlefl and traditions of '.necurnte.
We all know tbat tbe Minister ot their mother lands, and specially honouring Flnauce does not mean anythlDjt of the It 1s a mere catch cry to them nt npproprlate times, orlf's ot rrom the po.sltlOD In whlcb nil cordially uniting their eaorts for tlle he would be placed It we referred to the Ilf'velopmcnt ot tbls rounuy :lod tor thoe criticism of the Minister ur Trade and Com rnnlnteDl\uce of Inlltltntlons under whlcb nil merre (Hon.

Sir Rlcbard CartwrlgbO made tor the pnrposea teo years ngo.
Bnt evet:l rnjoy thl"!

prlceles.

blessings of civil ault ot ft Cl\tch cry, It Is bardly wortb wll1le for religious Uberty.

Ireland nre hononred to-dnf.

ret 8lI.,·e blmself 'I'be MINISTER OF FINANCE.

There 18 Some bon.

MEMBERS.

Hear, hear.

tile mem- kind, nnd thnt nnt10nalltlcs-Engllsh, the Dominion, the German rnces Dnd ttll