Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697706265135.pdf (Botswana)
THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT MONDAY 04 APRIL 2022 MIXED VERSION HANSARD NO: 205 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon.

Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP.

DEPUTY SPEAKER Hon.

P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP.

(Tonota) Clerk of the National Assembly Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly Acting Learned Parliamentary Counsel Assistant Clerk (E) His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP.

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP.


(Boteti West) CABINET - President - Vice President - Ms B. N. Dithapo - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe - Advocate L. O. Tlhowe - Mr R. Josiah Hon.

K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP.

(Molepolole South) - Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

K. T. Mmusi, MP.

(Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon.

Dr L. Kwape, MP.

(Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon.

K. K. Autlwetse, MP.


(Specially Elected) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon.

K. S. Gare, MP.

(Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

P. K. Kereng, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism Hon.

Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP.

(Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon.

T.M.

Segokgo, MP.

(Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon.

K. Mzwinila, MP.
K. Mzwinila, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Hon.

T. M. Rakgare, MP.

(Mogoditshane) - Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development Hon.

A. M. Mokgethi, MP.

(Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon.

P. O. Serame, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon.

F. M. M. Molao, MP.

(Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Hon.

Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP.


(Tati East) Hon.

L. M. Moagi, MP.

(Ramotswa) - Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology - Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Energy Security Hon.

M. Kgafela, MP.

(Mochudi West) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

M. R. Shamukuni, MP.

(Chobe) - Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Development Hon.

E. M. Molale, MP.

(Goodhope-Mabule) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development Hon.
D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP.

(Gaborone South) - Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration Hon.

S. N. Modukanele, MP.

(Lerala -Maunatlala) Hon.

T. Monnakgotla, MP.

(Kgalagadi North) Hon.

M. M. Pule, MP.

(Mochudi East) Hon.

M. S. Molebatsi, MP.


(Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Development - Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Security Hon.

S. Lelatisitswe, MP.

(Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness Hon.

N. W. T. Makwinja, MP.

(Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education Hon.

B. Manake, MP.
B. Manake, MP.

(Specially Elected) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Hon.

H. B. Billy, MP.

(Francistown East) Hon.

A. Lesaso, MP.

(Shoshong) - Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES Names Constituency Hon.

L. Kablay, MP.

(Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon.

Dr U. Dow, MP.

Hon.


P. Majaga, MP.

Hon.

M. Balopi, MP.

Hon.

J. S. Brooks, MP.

Hon.

C. Greeff, MP.

Hon.

T. Letsholo, MP.

Hon.

T. F. Leuwe, MP.

Hon.

T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP.

Hon.

Dr T. Matsheka, MP.

Hon.

S. N. Moabi, MP.

Hon.

P. K. Motaosane, MP.

Hon.

O. Regoeng, MP.

Hon.

J. L. Thiite, MP.


Specially Elected Nata-Gweta Gaborone North Kgalagadi South Gaborone Bonnington South Kanye North Takatokwane Gaborone Central Lobatse Tati West Thamaga-Kumakwane Molepolole North Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon.

D. Saleshando, MP.

(Leader of the Opposition) Hon.

M. G. J. Motsamai, MP.


(Opposition Whip) Maun West Ghanzi South Selebi Phikwe West Mahalapye East Sefhare-Ramokgonami Ngami Okavango Maun East Bobonong Selebi Phikwe East Palapye Nkange Mahalapye West Francistown West Hon.

D. L. Keorapetse, MP.

Hon.

Y. Boko, MP.

Hon.

Dr K. Gobotswang, MP.

Hon.

C. K. Hikuama, MP.

Hon.

K. K. Kapinga, MP Hon.

G. Kekgonegile, MP.

Hon.

T. B. Lucas, MP.

Hon.

K. Nkawana, MP.

Hon.

O. Ramogapi, MP.

Hon.

Dr N. Tshabang, MP.

Hon.

D. Tshere, MP.

Hon.


M. I. Moswaane, MP.

Hon.

T. S. Khama, MP.

Hon.

L. Lesedi, MP.

Hon.

B. Mathoothe, MP.

Hon.

M. Reatile, MP.

(Botswana Patriotic Front) Serowe West Serowe South Serowe North Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon.

W. B. Mmolotsi, MP.
Francistown South (Alliance for Progressives) TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT MONDAY 4th APRIL, 2022 CONTENTS PAGE (S) QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER.................................................................................................................1-19 BUSINESS MOTION................................................................................................................................................1 MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Allocation of Tourism Sites at Chobe Motion (Resumed Debate)..............................................................................................................................20-32 Adoption of the National Quality Policy (NQP) for Botswana, 2021 Motion (Resumed Debate)..............................................................................................................................33-37 Monday 4th April, 2022 THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) P R A Y E R S * * * * BUSINESS MOTION MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): Procedure.
Good afternoon Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I am looking at the Order Paper today and my thinking is that when I look at this business, it can be completed by 6 o’clock even if we accord questions a little more time.

I rise on a point of procedure to move that we deal with all the questions in the Order Paper today.

That is to say, we suspend Standing Order 130.1, so that we are enabled to deal with all these questions.
I am mindful of the two other agenda items, that is the Motion for the Adjournment – Definite Matter of Urgent Public Importance and the Adoption of the National Quality Policy for Botswana.

I am convinced that we can deal with everything in this Order Paper by 6 o’clock because the Motion is timed and the policy is too technical.

I do not think many people will show interest in debating it.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Re technical ntate, o se ka wa re tlhobosa.

MR KEORAPETSE: Ee, ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Tota kopo e ne e le ya dipotso fela gore re di dire tsotlhe.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Thank you Honourable Keorapetse.

Honourable Members, there is nothing wrong with our procedure but what you are saying, if we can deal with everything on the Order Paper today, that is something which would be very good.
I put the request to the Honourable House that we suspend the Standing Order restricting question time to 45 minutes in order to deal with all the questions.

Question put and agreed to.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER CAPACITATING COMMUNITY TRUSTS MR G. KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): asked the Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism if she is aware that community trusts lack capacity to initiate income generating projects that provide employment opportunities to their communities, and further clarify: (i) the impediments of such undertakings as per the ministry’s assessment of the situation; (ii) Technical Advisory Committee’s (TAC) role in such initiatives and TACs capacity to guide accordingly; (iii) the ministry’s plans in creating a fulltime Community-Based Natural Resource Management (CBNRM) desk officer post in districts; and (iv) the ministry’s vision and plan in capacitating community trusts to be active in the country’s economic growth.
MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM (MS KERENG): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Mma ke dumedise Ntlo e. Ke lebogela potso Honourable Kekgonegile.

Ke tsaya gore ke kgang e re a tleng re e bue fela le mo nakong e e fetileng.

Mr Speaker, re a itse, e bile re a tlhomamisa gore lephata le a lemoga gore community trusts ga di na bokgoni jwa go bopa, go aga le go tsamaisa mananeo a a ka tlisang letseno la madi.
Mananeo a go bopa megopolo ya dikgwebo, go bopa tsotlhe tse di amanang le kgwebo e e ka atlegang ya bo ya fetlha ditiro, ya tokafatsa matshelo a batho mo gae.

Lenaneo la rona la Community- Based Natural Resource Management (CBNRM) le le thusanang le community trusts, maikaelelo a magolo a lone ke go pepetletsa, go rutuntsha le go nonotsha bokgoni jwa community trusts tseo.

Re ba neela ditshono tsa go ka dira kgwebo mme re a lemoga gore dikitso tsa bone di santse di tlhaela.
Go na le trusts tse di nang le bokgoni, boards tsa teng tse e leng gore botsamaisi bo na le kitso.

Ba kgona go tsamaisa mananeo a dikgwebo a a tsweletseng kwa Khwai Trust, Okavango, Kopano le Mokoro.

Re a itse gore Mababe o setse a segile motlhala wa gore go ka kgonega gore batho ba ka fitlhelela golo gongwe ka trusts.
Mr Speaker, bothata jo bo leng teng ke gore, fa gongwe batho ba ba mo trusts ga ba na dikitso tse di lekaneng go tshwara ditiro tse di ka ba kgontshang go bopa dikgwebo tse di ka tswelelang pele.

O tlaa fitlhela board e na le batho ba emetse morafe, ba tlhophilwe sentle, gongwe ba sa tlhophiwa sentle.

Ditsamaiso mme di le teng, tse dingwe gongwe di sa nonofa sentle, re bo re feletsa re 1 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER na le maloko a a senang bokgoni jo bo kalo.
Bokgoni jo bo gwetlhang thata jaaka o bua ke gore, business development, business management e e tsamaelanang le tsa go tsamaisa madi, go boloka madi, investment jalo, re lemoga gore fa re tsena kwa community trusts, ke skills tse di tlhaelang.
A bo a botsa gore the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) e e kwa dikgaolong, dikhanseleng, e phuthile badirelapuso ka go farologana mo maphateng, wildlife a le teng e tsamaisiwa ke Molaodi mme tiro ya yone ke eng; TAC e foo go leka go tsamaisa tontobi, go tataisa community trusts, go ba bontsha kwa ditshono di leng teng, go ba lemotsha se ba tlhokang go se dira gore ba ipopaganye.
Fa dithuso tsa madi di le teng jaaka lephata la me le di ntsha ka National Environmental Fund le Conservation Trust Fund, e bo ba ba thusa go fetlha projects.

Ba simolola eng, ba nna le ditshono tse di ntseng jang mme ba ntse ba ba thusa.

Madi fa ba a dira jaana, a bo a ka dirisiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, go leka go bopa bokgoni jwa go fetlha ditiro ka projects tse re di dirang.
Mr Speaker, fa re ya kwa pele dithulaganyo tsa lephata ke eng go leka go atolosa bodiredi jwa CBNRM, gore le aname le dikgaolo ba tle ba kgone go bona thuso ka bonako; Mr Speaker, re setse re simolotse thulaganyo ya go dira molao wa CBNRM o ke dumelang gore o tlaa tsena mo Palamenteng e e tlang.

Ka one, re ka kgona gore lenaneo le, re le godise go tswa mo go reng e bo e le programme fela, e nne a full department.
Fa re setse re na le department, structures tsa teng di tlaabo di nna teng tse e leng gore kwa dikgaolong go ka nna le baemedi ba lephata.

Ke keletso ya rona gore go nne le bokgoni le thuso e e tsepameng ya gore community trusts tota di thusiwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Ba kgone gore dithuso tsa bone di tswe mo lenaneong le mme ba sa di latele kgakala jaaka gompieno lenaneo le santse le le lennyennyane.
O bo o re re dira jang gore community trusts di thusiwe; re setse re tshwaragane le Lephata la Local Enterprise Authority (LEA).

Ba re thusa ka go tataisa mo gotweng mentorship and coaching ya community trusts.

Re setse re simolotse le bone jalo gore ba re rutele batho, ba re thuse ka business… (Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga ke itse gore a o bone karabo nngwe ya ga Honourable Motsamai ya Ghanzi South… MR SPEAKER: Honourable Segokgo, it is only the Minister who is on the floor.
MS KERENG: Ke ne ke setse ke wela Mr Speaker, ke re re tshwaragane le bone ba LEA.

Ba setse ba bereka le trusts tsa rona tsa training tseo le gone go ba tataisa gore tota go bopa kgwebo le go e tsamaisa gore e bo e le gore e profitable go batla ba dirile jang.

E bile re tshwaragane le ba Botswana University of Agriculture and Natural Resources (BUAN).

Mo nakong eno they are developing targeted modules tsa training tse ba tlaabong ba ntse ba re thusa gore re train ka tsone Mr Speaker.
Re kile ra tshwaragana le ba Gala Safari Club ba e rileng ka nako ya COVID e goroga ba bo ba setse ba ne ba le mono ba ntse ba dira workshops le community trusts mme ka ntata ya mathata a COVID ba bo ba sa kgone gore ba ka tswelela ka lenaneo leo.

Ke dumela gore le tlaa tsogologa.


Ke dumela thata Mr Speaker gore tshwaragano ya rona le LEA e tlaa re thusa fa re santse re bona gore lenaneo leno le tlaa godisiwa kwa lephateng re bo re kgona gore re le neele ditsompelo gore batho ba ba Modimo ba bo ba na le thuso e e gaufi.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

MR KEKGONEGILE: Supplementary.

Tanki Mr Speaker.

Tanki Tona.
Motho o ka botsa potso e nngwefela ya gore le fa re utlwa tebelopele le maikaelelo a ministry, fa re lebeletse gore tsamaiso ya go dira molao le go tla go dira lephata e tsaya lobaka le le kae, a ga le bone gore go ka nna tshiamo kana mosola thata gore kwa mafelong a trusts di leng dintsi teng jaaka kwa Bokone Bophirima le Chobe, a le ka se ke temporarily le nne le bodiredi jo le bo isang koo, temporary desk officers tse di ka thusang trusts ka gore komiti e e dirwang ke badirelapuso kana ke mokang ba dira part-time?
Ba a dira fa ditiro tsa bone di ba letla mme yo ene o tlaabo a le foo fulltime.

Re lebile gore re siiwa ke nako, ditsamaiso le ditlamelo tse re ka bong re di dirisa.

Tanki.

MS KERENG: O bua mafoko a mantle.

Ke ne ke santse ke bua le boeteledipele jwa lephata gore re batle ba ba nang le kitso.

Officers tsa lenaneo le di pedi fela mo ministry.

Gore re bo re re re ka isa batho kwa e leng gore trusts di teng koo di ka tlhoka thuso, ga re ka ke ra kgona go bona ope mo ministry.
Re ne re re fa LEA e santse e re tshwere jalo ka gore go na le dilo tse dingwe tse e leng gore ga se tsa kgwebo ka botsone mme ke tsa tsamaiso fela ya kakaretso re batle batho ba ba ka re direlang tiro e on contract basis e bo e le gore re ba neela gore wena o ya kwa o ya go bereka le trusts di le kana, o ba thusa ka tsela e e ntseng jaana le tshwaragane le Technical Advisory Committee (TAC).
Re santse re le fa e leng gore re leka go batla baitseanape bao kana ba ba ka kgonang go re direla tiro e ba re ka ba isang ka kwa dikgaolong ka kwa Mr Speaker.

Ke tiro e e tsweletseng.

Ke a leboga.


2 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER LOKALANE SERVICE STATION MR J. L. THIITE (GHANZI NORTH): asked the Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security if he is aware that Lokalane Service Station in Ghanzi has not been operating for a while; and further state reasons for non-operation if any and when will it re-open.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Thank you.
Good afternoon Mr Speaker.

Good afternoon Honourable Members.

Mr Speaker, Lokalane Central Loading Facility (CLF) kana kwa masakeng a go rwalwang dikgomo kwa go one kwa Lokalane a dirilwe ka ngwaga wa 2010.

A ne a dirisitswa gore re le lephata re kgone gore re ntshe permits re bo re neela baruakgomo ba isa dikgomo tsa bone kwa matlhabelong a Botswana Meat Commission (BMC).

Facility e e ne e thusa barui mo Ghanzi District, including Charles Hill Sub-District.
Mr Speaker, tiriso ya service centre e e ne ya fela.

E ne ya fetswa ke gore re ne ra tsisa maranyane a Botswana Animal Identification and Traceability System (BAITS) re le lephata gore go ka dirwa permits tsa dikgomo go dirisiwa maranyane.

Fela jaaka o itse, mo BAITS go dirisiwa mo gotweng online permits, go ikopelwa (apply) go dirisiwa maranyane.
Mr Speaker, golo mo go ne ga thusa baruakgomo ba ba neng ba tsamaya sekgele se se telele ba ya go rwala dikgomo ba di isa gone kwa Lokalane, ba tle ba di folose kana ba di pege mo diterakeng (unloading and reloading).

Se se ne sa dira gore go nne motlhofo ka gore jaanong ga ba tlhoke go ya koo, ba dirisa BAITS.

Banana ba ba thusa to apply for these permits.

Mr Speaker, facility e e teng gompieno.

Ga se gore ga e dirisiwe.

E dirisiwa ke mapodise fa gongwe fa ba rurifatsa gore dikgomo ke tsa ga mang.
Ke facility e e leng gore fa makalana a mangwe a ba batla go e dirisa, re a ba e neela gore ba e dirise.

Ka a le kalo, ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

MR THIITE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Karabo ya ga Tona e e e a kgotsofatsa, no further questions.
VACANT POSTS AT DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES the total vacancies at Botswana Television (BTV), RB1 and 2, Department of Information Services (at all 57 Constituencies) and at all other Departments under his ministry including Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM), stating the following: (i) what action was taken after the Honourable Member for Palapye asked the same question two years ago; (ii) is the Minister aware that he made an undertaking to this Honourable House that the posts will be filled; (iii) why it has taken long to fill the vacant posts while there are so many graduates in the street; (iv) how much was budgeted for the vacant posts; and (v) what the budgeted money for vacant posts was used for up to date.
FOR AND PRESIDENTIAL MINISTER PUBLIC AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Potso eno Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, yo ke go ikobelang rraetsho, e boditswe ka puo ya seeng ke Rre Ramogapi, jaanong ke e araba ka puo ya seeng jaaka a e boditse ka Sekgoa.

Mr Speaker, the total vacancies at Botswana Television (BTV), RB1 and RB 2 is 28.

Department of Information Services has 26 vacancies.
Other departments in my ministry have a total of 173 vacancies, distributed as follows: Government Printing and Publishing Services 19, Office of the President, including District Administration, 154.

Other independent departments, including Directorate of Public Service Management (DPSM) have a total of 69 vacant posts.

The overall vacancy is 296.

(i) The ministry continues to fill vacant positions following the set recruitment procedures.
I would like to inform this Honourable House that all the vacant management posts that were vacant at that time have been filled.

However, some officers … (Interruption)… go na le modumonyana ka koo Mr Speaker.

MR O. RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): asked the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Administration to update this Honourable House on MR SPEAKER: Ee, o kare go na le batho ba ba lebalang gore re mo Palamenteng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se Segokgo?


3 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke Segokgo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Minister wa internet.

MR MORWAENG: However, some officers retire and resign from the Public Service and this also contributes to the vacancy level.

(ii) Efforts have been made to fill the posts through promotions boards, interviews and assessment centre.
However, as people keep on being promoted, some passing on, retire and being transferred posts would keep on becoming vacant.

(iii) Mr Speaker, not all vacant positions are at entry level.

To create vacancies at entry level requires internal promotions which then prolongs the process.

Employees leave the Public Service due to a number of reasons such as retirement, resignation, death, or any other similar reasons which results in vacancies.
(iv) The total value for the vacant positions in my ministry is Sixty-Seven Million, Three Hundred and Nineteen Thousand, Four Hundred and Twelve Pula (P67, 319 412.00).
(v) Then ya bofelo Mr Speaker, what the budgeted money for vacant posts were used for up to date, yone e a re; the budgeted money was used in line with the Public Finance Management Act to address related personnel emoluments costs such as scarce skill allowances, acting allowances, leave encashment and overtime as and when the need arises.

Furthermore, as per the said Act, any un-used balances from the Recurrent Budget go back into Government Consolidated Fund.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga Honourable Speaker, ke a leboga Honourable Minister go bo o tla ka karabo eo ya Batswana.

Ke go botse Rraetsho selo santlha gore a mme tota Tona, are you happy ka gore mo sebakeng sa gompieno e bo e le gore o na le diphatlha di le 296, mme e le gore diphatlha tse di ntse fela ga di kabiwe, bana ba tlhoka ditiro, batho ba sa le ba nna mo scale se le one ba tlhoka promotion?

Tota golo mo Tona ga o tlhalose gore o a re go bakiwa ke eng?
Ke kopa gore fa e le gore o itumeletse gore o bo o na le diphatlha tse 296, seemo se se bakiwa ke eng, mme e bile what is the turnaround ya gago gore tota o tlaa kaba diphatlha tse leng?

Sa boraro, ke go botse gore which criteria kana mothale o o o dirisang wa go thiba diphatlha tse?

O dirisa ofe ka go lebega e le gore gone mo lephateng la gago gape go na le selelo sa gore nnyaa, ba bangwe ba a tlolwa gotwe ke promotion mme ba dira ka botswerere?
O fitlhela ba ne ba ntse ba tla acting mmogo, kgantele jaanong go tsenngwa yo mongwe o sa itse gore tota gone sentlentle gatwe yo mongwe o tsentswe jang a tlola ba bangwe.

Ke tsene mo go ya budget e o neng o e bua Tona o re madi a le kgona go a dirisetsa mo seemong se se tshwanang le bo overtimes le tse dingwe jalo.
Ke go botse ka gore gongwe ga ba a go tlhalosetsa gore, a mme o a itse gore kwa maphateng a gago a a tshwanang le a bo Botswana Television (BTV), Radio Botswana le a mangwe, go setse gotwe ga ba ka ke ba bona overtime, fa e le sengwe ba ithaope, ntswa madi a le mantsi a batho a e leng gore is budgeted for in the normal procedure, le a e leng gore a teng jaaka go na le diphatlha tsa batho ba ba sa hirwang.
A o itse ka seemo se go setseng gotwe bana ba ithaope, ba bereke fela jaaka o kare ba mo konterakeng ya ga Rre Ramogapi e go ka tweng ga re na madi; Ramogapi o tshonne, ithaopeng fela?

A o a itse ka seemo se, mme fa o itse, o tlaa se baakanya jang kana o tlaa tlhotlhomisa jang go bona gore o a se baakanya, gore re nne le bodiredi jwa maemo a a kwa godimo?

Go na le gore bana go bo go ntse gotwe ba ithaope fela jalo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Minister and my friend.


MR MORWAENG: La ntlha tla ke leboge Motlotlegi Rre Ramogapi ke re, se ke ka se go tlhomamisetsang ke gore jaaka o re go na le kgang ya gore bana kwano ba tewa gotwe ba itlhaope, ga ba na go bona overtime allowance ya bone, ke go tlhomamisetse gore ke tlaa batlisisa morwaarre, ke botse gore a kgang e o e buang eo, a magatwe ao a na le motheo kana jang.

Ke tla e batlisisa go itse sentle gore a kgang eo e teng.
I am not aware of it, ka gore to the best of my knowledge, ditsamaiso tsa Puso di ntse jaaka o di itse, mme ke go tlhomamisetse gore ke tla e batlisisa.

Ntlha e nngwe ke go tlhomamisetse gore… ka o ne o mpotsa gore a ke itumetse kana ga ke a itumela, ke re nnyaa mokaulengwe, fa o gakologelwa motlotlegi, ke tlhalositse gore go na le mabaka a a bakang gore go nne le diphatlha.

Nako e potso e e neng e bodiwa two years back, go na le ka fa re neng ra nna ra kaba diphatlha ka teng.
Fa o ka ela tlhoko teng kwa mafelong a o buang ka one motlotlegi, go na le posts dingwe tse di kwa management, tse di neng tsa bona batho ba e leng gore go na le to act jaanong ba hirwa e le batho ba sennelaruri, jaaka o ka bona bo General Manager fa ke sa fose ba ka nna batlhano, ba sa tlhole ba tshwareletse (act), jaanong 4 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER e le batho ba ba hirilweng e le ba sennelaruri; General Manager wa radio, wa news jalojalo.
Ga gona kgang eo ya go tshwarelela in those positions.

Re ne ra dira sengwe Rra.

Ke go tlhomamisetse gore mo karabong ya me e ke neng ke e fa motlotlegi ke ne ke supa gore kana le mororo fa le sena to fill posts jaaka re di tladitse two years back, go na le posts tse di nnang di tswa di bulega.

Sekai, fa gongwe di bulwa ke dintsho, transfers le fa batho resigning jalojalo, so ke selo se se tswelelang se direga go ya kwa pele.
Ga gona nako e o tlaa reng ga gona posts, jaaka ke supa gore go na le mabaka a mangwe a a dirang gore di nne teng.

Ke ka go tlhomamisetsa gore re a go tswelela re dira bojotlhe gore diphatlha tsotlhe tse di ka tswang di le teng re di tlatse.
Ntlha e nngwe e ke ka e go tlhomamisetsang ke gore, e re le mororo jaaka o supa gore go na le bana mo mekgwatlheng ba ba sa direng, ga se gore Motlotlegi Rre Ramogapi re tlaa re fela ka gore go na le phatlha golo gongwe re bo re re tlang re ye go tsaya setlogolo sa ga Motlotlegi Ramogapi ke yole o fale, tla o tsene mo phatlheng fa, bogolo jang ka gore tse di fa tlase di nna fa go nna le promotions batho ba ya fa godimo.
Ke re motlotlegi ke utlule, e bile ke dumalana le wena gore fa diphatlha di leng teng re tshwanetse go leka bojotlhe gore botlhe ba ba maleba who qualify ba tsenngwe mo diphatlheng tseo, gore tiro ya mmuso e direge, tiro ya setšhaba e kgone go direga.

Ke a leboga motlotlegi.

MR RAMOGAPI: Sorry, ga o a araba ya turnaround gore ke leng to fill posts tseo.

MR MORWAENG: Motlotlegi, jaaka ke ne ke supa, ke ne ke re ke selo se se ongoing.
Ke selo se se tsweletseng, ke mosepele o re leng mo go one o letsatsi le letsatsi re lwang le kgang ya teng motlotlegi.

Jaaka ke supa ke re, fa gongwe o a go fitlhela e le gore phatlha e bakwa ke gore motho o a tlhokafala mo gompieno, mme gongwe e ne e le motho wa seemo se se rileng.

Fa e dule motlotlegi, ke go simolola process jaaka e le gore go na le dithulaganyo tsa go tsenya batho mo diphatlheng tseo jaaka interviews le tse dingwe jalojalo.
Ke re process eo re tsere tshwetso ya gore e nne kgang ya letsatsi le letsatsi go bona gore tota re dira bofefo jo re ka bo kgonang to fill diphatlha fa di leng teng.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Honourable Minister, ka nako e potso e e neng e bodiwa dingwaga tse pedi tse di fetileng, maemo a e neng e le gore ga a na batho ka nako eo a ne a le kafe?

E bile o a re o kgonne go tlatsa maemo a le kafe fa e sa le ka nako eo Minister?
Honourable Minister, a o a lemoga gore go setse go na le diphatlha tse di senang batho tse di setseng di na le dingwaga mo lephateng le, mme go na le batho ba ba nonofetseng, e bile ba na le tsotlhe tse di tlhokafalang gore ba ka tshwara maemo ao?

A mme o a lemoga gone mo ga gore e bo go na le batho ba e leng gore are qualified go tshwara maemo a e leng gore a teng mme ba sa a neelwe, gone moo fela go ka ba kgoba marapo?

A o lemoga selo se Honourable Minister?


Honourable Minister, ke eng o sa papamale fela o a re tota malatsi a fela le sekaseka go bona gore ke bafe mo bathong ba le ka ba hirang, ba ba ka utlwang ditaelo tsa gago o le Minister le tsa phathi e e busang ya Domkrag?

Ke eng o sa tlhamalale fela Honourable Minister?

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MORWAENG: Ke dumela gore Motlotlegi Rre Gobotswang o itse tsamaiso ya khiro.
Se a se buang a re re eletsa go hira batho re lebile gore a ba ka utlwa ditaelo tsa rona re le Puso kana nnyaa.

Ke ka mo tlhomamisetsa gore boammaaruri ke gore ga re tsamaye re senka bana ba ba sa utlweng Rre Gobotswang.

Go na le tsamaiso mo khirong, go lebiwa qualifications and experience, ga go lebiwe tse o di akantseng Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Sefhare-Ramokgonami.

Ga re e lebe jaaka o e bua motlotlegi.

Gotlhelele fela tseo ga se tse di lebiwang, ke tse di mo tlhaloganyong ya gago mogolole.
Ka nako e nneng potso e e bodiwa ngwaga o o two years back, ke ka go tlhomamisetsa gore go na le some managerial positions tse di neng tsa bona batho, ba tsenngwa rra.

Go ne go na le General Manager, ke ne ke baya sekai ka wa radio, go le ba bangwe ba ba farologaneng ba ba neng ba tshwareletse.

Fa o ka ela tlhoko, ba ne ba tshwarelela every month ba hapaanela but now we have filled those positions ka batho ba sennelaruri.
Sengwe sone motlotlegi se a direga, mme legale ka nna le wena re dira rotlhe, fa o itse dingwe tse o dumelang gore gongwe ga di na batho, o ka tlisa my attention to them, ke ka leboga thata gore re tle re nne re thusane go direla tšhaba ya rona motlotlegi.

Ka tsela eo ke re ke tiro e e tsweletseng, e re e dirang mme re leka bojotlhe gore re thibe diphatlha fa di tlhokang go thibega teng.

Ke a leboga motlotlegi.

MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary Honourable Lucas.

MR LUCAS: Last supplementary.


Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Rre Morwaeng, ke batla o ke o tlhomamisetse Batswana; e rile mo nakong e e fetileng Rre Matsheka a santse a le Minister wa Finance, ga nna le kgang ya 5 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER gore Puso e ka se ke ya kaba diphatlha tse di bulegang ka gore ga e batle bodirelapuso bo gola ka tsela e e sa amogelesegeng.
A mme go ka raya gore go tlhoka go kaba diphatlha tse, go ka tswa go tsamaelana le thulaganyo e ya Puso ya zero growth mo bodirelapusong?

Ke ne ke re o ke o e sedimose sentle ka gore ke utlwa fa o araba potso e, e kete o ganelela mo goreng diphatlha tseo di tlaa kabiwa.

Jaanong go tsamaelana jang le thulaganyo e e neng e buiwa ya zero growth?

Ke a leboga.

MR MORWAENG: Ke gore se se buiwang Rre Lucas, go na le thulaganyo.
Ke gore ga se gore ba ba dirang mo maphateng mo ditirong tse di botlhokwa tse di farologanyeng, ga se gore nngwe le nngwe e go nnang le phatlha e ka se tladiwe, ga go a nna jalo.

Sekai; jaaka re ne re ntse re na le General Manager wa radio a tshwareletse, mme e bile e le letshwenyego la ga Rre Ramogapi gore diphatlha tseo di bone batho ba ba di nnang, ga gona jaaka seromamowa se ka nna re sena General Manager.

Fa go ntseng jalo teng re kaba phatlha yone eo ka motho wa sennelaruri.
Gone mo e ne e le concern ya ga Rre Ramogapi gore diphatlha tse di leng teng jaaka ke di bua jaana, re tlaa tlamega go di bonela ba ba di kabang.

Tse nneng Rre Matsheka a bua ka tsone, ga se tse re buang ka tsone fano fa.

Go ne go na le phatlha ya General Manager wa dikgang, e ne e le teng ka mongwe o ne a dule foo, jaaka ke tlhalosa, go na le yo o tshwareletseng mme ra bona gore re senke wa sennelaruri teng foo.

So ga go amane morwarre gotlhelele fela.


E bile ke tlhomamise gore... MR LUCAS: Mr Speaker, ka bokhutshwanyane ke re; gakere go na le diphatlha ke tse di over 200, wena o ganeletse mo go ya General Manager.

Mo go tse 200, ga se gore gongwe mme di tsamaelana le mogopolo wa gore Puso ga e ikemisetse go oketsa batho ba ba mo bodirelapusong, jaanong fa motho a tswa gongwe a tlogela tiro, Puso is not too keen gore e hire yo mongwe?
Gongwe mo go tse 200, o ntibise gore ga se gore di amiwa ke policy yone eo ya zero growth?

MR MORWAENG: Nnyaa rra, tse ga di amane le tseo gotlhelele morwarre.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ka go reng, tlhalosa?

MR MORWAENG: Ke ne ke re ga di amane le tseo.

Se se neng se buiwa Rre Gobotswang, go ne go sa twe mo Pusong jaanong fa e le gore class ya Standard 7 morutabana yo o neng a le teng fa a tlhokafala, re bo re re ga re senke yo o ka rutang fa ka gore go tilwe go emisiwe.

Nnyaa Rre Gobotswang, ga re reye jalo.


Tse ke buang ka tsone ke tse di ntseng di le teng di na le batho, di tsweletse mme fa phatlha e bulegile, e tshwanetse go kabiwa.

Ga di amane le tse Rre Matsheka a buang ka tsone gotlhelele rraetsho.

Jaaka ke go beela sekai ka gore fa morutabana a tlhokafala, go tshwanetse go tsenngwa yo mongwe yo o ka kgonang go ruta bana ba ba foo Rre Gobotswang.

Ga re ka ke ra re re eme fela ka gore Rre Matsheka o kile a bua nako nngwe gore ga gona go hirwa.
Nnyaa, go ne go sa tewe jalo.

Jaaka ke tlhalosa, go tlaa re ke tle ke go senkele information e e tletseng gore o tle o tlhaloganye gore posts tse di farologana jang gotlhelele Motlotlegi Rre Lucas Le Motlotlegi Rre Gobotswang.
MANDATE OF BDC MR O. REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): asked the Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry to state: (i) whether Botswana Development Corporation (BDC) which was established in 1970 as an investment arm of Government to drive industrialisation, economic diversification and private sector growth is still relevant in its current form, considering that other players in the financial sector have since entered the market; (ii) if the current BDC pace of delivery on its two key mandate of industrialisation and economic diversification is satisfactory; if so, (iii) why the country still depends largely on imports for its daily needs; (iv) why not leverage on available massive mineral resources for industrialisation and private sector growth; (v) the average annual dividend BDC pays to Government; and (vi) how the existence of BDC has benefited the people of Molepolole.
MR SPEAKER: Honourable Regoeng!

MR REGOENG: Good afternoon Mr Speaker, good afternoon Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, ministry ba kopile gore re later date potso e for the second time.

Later Date.
Later Date.

TARRING OF TSABONG INTERNAL ROADS 6 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER MR S. J. BROOKS (KGALAGADI SOUTH): asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to state: (i) the total distance in kilometres of the initial plan of tarring of Tsabong internal roads; (ii) number of kilometres covered and dates; (iii) the amount that was budgeted for this exercise; and (iv) when the remaining roads will be covered and further clarify the tarring schedule in phases.
OF MINISTER LOCAL ASSISTANT GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Speaker, good afternoon batlotlegi ba ba tlotlegang.

Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Brooks ka potso e e ntseng jalo, mme ke go dumedisetse ba Kgalagadi South.

(i) Re ne re ipeetse sekgele sa 21 kilometres (km) wa ditsela gore di bo di tshetswe sekontere kwa Tsabong.

Sekgele se sa 21 km, se dirilwe mo nakong ya dikgwedi di le 24 go simologa ka di 21 January 2006, go tsena ka 20 January 2008.
Tiro e e dirilwe ka madi a a kana ka P48 581 531.70.

(ii) Mr Speaker, ka seemo sa letlhoko la madi se se dirilweng ke kwelo tlase ya itsholelo ka ngwaga wa 2008, ga re a kgona go diragatsa ditlhabololo tsotlhe tse re reng re ikaeletse go di dira mo motseng wa Tsabong jaaka storm-water drainage system le go tshela dikontere mo Tsabong.
(iii) Mr Speaker, ga ke na go kgona go fa dinako gore tiro e e leng gore ga e a dirwa ya go tshelwa sekontere, tota ditlhabololo tsa teng re tlaa di dira leng ka gore ga di mo lenaneong la ditlhabololo la National Development Plan (NDP)12.

Le fa go ntse jalo Mr Speaker, re le ministry le Kgalagadi District Council, re tlaa tswelela ka go netefatsa gore ditsela di a tlhokomelwa by patching them, bogolo jang potholes mo tseleng ya sekontere le go kgopha ditsela tsa lekgwarapana gone mo motseng wa Tsabong.
Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR BROOKS: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker, thank you Honourable Minister.

Le fa tota jaanong ke arabiwa ke wena, ga ke itse gore ke tlaa thusiwa ke mang mathata a. Honourable Minister, are you aware that initially ditsela tse di neng di tshwanetse gore di dirwe kwa Kgaolong ya Kgalagadi was 64 km.

Out of that 64 km, kilometres tse o di supang fa ke tsone tse di neng tsa dirwa ka tumelo ya gore go tlaabo go dirwa in the coming financial year mmaetsho.
Potso ke gore are you aware, and se se di ntshitseng on plan ke eng ka gore e ne e le an ongoing project e e neng e diretswe batho ba Kgaolo ya Kgalagadi?

Ke ne ke re ke go botse potso eo mmaetsho ka bokhutshwane jo bo kalo, tse dingwe tse ke tlaa di go botsang fa di setse di pala, jaanong go raya gore go padile, ke bone gore ke dira jang.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke leboge Motlotlegi Brooks jaaka a botsa gore plan e ne e le yone 64 kilometres (km) mme go dirilwe 21 km.
Fela jaaka ke buile, ditsela tse di dirilwe from 2006 go ya go ema ka 2008.

Ka 2008 go ne ga tsena kwelotlase ya itsholelo.

E ne e se lefatshe la Botswana fela, e ne e le lefatshe ka bophara.

Ke sone se o bonang gone ga felela go emiwa.


Ke tlaa kopa motlotlegi gore a nne a ntse a akanyetsa madi a a ngwaga le ngwaga a Constituency Community Project (CCP) a P10 million gore a nne a ntse aa akanyetsa gore bogolo re ka nna re ntse re a baya gore re tle re fokotse ene 64 km yoo, gongwe e kare nako nngwe ra fitlhelela kwa go ene.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Gongwe before ke botsa potso e, ke supe gore Honourable Assistant Minister o bua ka 64 km mme Honourable Member of Parliament o ne a bua ka 34 km.

So ke belaela gore gongwe information e e tswang fa is conflicting.
Mo potsong ya me Tona, fa o re project e ya ditsela tsa Kgalagadi South ga e yo mo National Development Plan (NDP), kgang e o batlang go e bua ke gore ba emele gore NDP e e tlaa simololang e fele, which will be probably after 10 years, ke gone batho ba Kgalagadi South ba ka akanyediwang mo ditseleng tsone tse Rre Brooks a buang ka tsone?
A mo nakong ya gompieno batho ba Kgalagadi South ba itlhoboge Tona, ka lebaka la gore ga ba yo mo NDP, ditselanyana tsa kilometres tse dipotlananyana tse, ba itlhoboge, di tlaa le palela lele Puso gore le ba direle, le bone ba tshele jaaka batho bangwe?

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Mmolotsi ka potso e o reng batho ba Kgalagadi South ba itlhoboge.

Batho ba Kgalagadi South ga ba ka ke ba itlhoboga, ke jaaka kopo e buiwa gone gompieno jaana.
Ga se gore le fa e seo mo NDP 12 Puso ga e ka ke ya e dira.

Ke dilo tse di tlaa lebelelwang jaaka motlotlegi a bua gore di tshwanetse gore di lebelelwe.

Fela jaaka ke 7 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER bua, fa itsholelo e ne e ile kwa tlase, ke dilo tse re ka boang gape ra di sekaseka, ra boa gape ra di lebelela, ra bona gore motlotlegi fa a bua ka dilo tseo, o ne a raya jang, mme e bile re ka di tsenya fa kae.
A e kare golo gongwe le rona ra tsutlaganya ra bona gore re ka tsenya fa kae.

Ga se gore ga di ka ke tsa lebelelwa, di ka lebelelwa Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

MR MMOLOTSI: Jaanong kgang ya NDP one o e tsenyetsa eng fa e le gore di ka lebelelwa?
HOME BASED CARE INITIATIVE MR D. TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness: (i) to explain the significance of the Home Based Care initiative on the overall healthcare delivery in Botswana; and further state if he is aware that Home Based Care workers: (a) are not issued with Personal Protective Equipment (PPE); (b) have no name tags; (c) their allowance has been stagnant for over 10 years; and (ii) to detail Government’s long term plan about this initiative.
MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (DR DIKOLOTI): Nte ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke leboge Modulasetilo wa komiti ya botsogo ka potso e. (i) Mr Speaker, the goal of the Community Home Based Care (CHBC) programme is to contribute towards integrated continuity of care through promotive, preventive, curative, rehabilitative and palliative care for optimum level of comfort, function, health and wellbeing, including dignified end of life of individuals and families at home and community.
The following are some of the objectives of the Community Home Based Care programme: • To provide holistic, integrated and continuous quality health care to chronically/terminally ill patients and their families and community members.

• To provide medicines and supplies that enable delivery of comprehensive health services to patients and their families.

(a) Mr Speaker, Home Based Care volunteers have sustained working relationship with heath facility based staff for technical and logistical support.
Provision of PPE to Community Home Based Care is on need basis.

Basic training on Infection Prevention and Control is offered to volunteers.

(b) The initial Home Base Care volunteers programme was on familiarity basis, serving the known clients.

We are currently reviewing and aligning Community Volunteer Programmes, which will be appropriately branded for visibility.

(c) Mr Speaker, the transport allowance for HBC volunteers was last reviewed in 2017 which is five years ago.
The Ministry of Health and Wellness is in the process of harmonising allowances for all Community Health Services.

(ii) The Ministry of Health and Wellness launched the National Guidelines for Implementation of Integrated Community Based Health Services in 2020, which is a step towards a systematic standard Community Health workers and volunteerism programme for health.
This will replace the CHBC which was disease based but implement a holistic community service which through Community Health Workers care will be initiated for all at household levels.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

a MR TSHERE: Supplementary.

Ke leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke a leboga Honourable Minister Dikoloti.

Kana o bua ka gore madi a ne a sekasekilwe ka 2017 mme ga o a tlhalosa gore ke bokae.
Se ke se utlwang kwa kgaolong ke gore, kana Home Based Care workers ba gago le bone ba batla go ya kwa Ipelegeng ka gore madi a teng a mannye thata, ba leka go a oketsa.

Jaanong kana go raya gore fa ba ya kwa Ipelegeng, molwetsi wa gagwe competes for nako le Ipelegeng.

Selo se se go tshwenya go le kae?

Se sengwe, o ne o re o fiwa on a need basis.


Kana ba bangwe ba mpolelela gore ba na le balwetsi bale bo five ba e leng gore ba a ba tlhokomela, mme fa gongwe molwetse a le kwa Madiba Home Based Care, practitioner ene a le kwa Mowana.

So o kgona go bona gore go kgakala jang, go palangwa gabedi, mme you did not cater for madi ao.

So dilo tse ba ne ba di mpolelela ba tlile kwa ofising ya me.

Ke itumelela gore wa re le ya go sekaseka lenaneo le, le tle le le tshwaraganye le tse dingwe.
Ke kopa gore o lebe dikgang that I am raising.

Thank you.

8 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER DR DIKOLOTI: Honourable Tshere, kana ke ne ke araba potso jaaka o ne o e boditse, o ne o sa botsa gore madi ke bokae.

O ne o re the allowance has been stagnant for over 10 years.

So ke ne ke araba yone potso ya teng ya gore allowance was reviewed in 2017 which is five years ago.
Now because you want to know the amount, karabo ya amount ke gore it was reviewed ka 2017, nako ya teng ba ne ba santse ba amogela P202.80.

This is transport allowance, ga se salary.

It was reviewed to P302.80.

Kgang e ke neng ke bua ka yone ke re it is on need basis, ke kgang ya PPE.
So o se ka wa tlhakanya dikgetsi tsa teng, mme ke a go leboga thata motlotlegi go bo o tlisitse kgang e ka gore e botlhokwa ka gore nna le wena re tlhaloganya thata kgang e re buang ka yone ya go tsosolosa dikgang tsa botsogo go tswa kwa moding, se re dumelang gore fa re se dira, mme e bile re dira gore e nne people centred revitalization for primary health, ga go na ope yo o yang go nna ga di nkame ka dikgang tsa botsogo.
Rotlhe re ya go nna banaleseabe, mme Batswana le tšhaba e ya rona e tlaa kgona gore e babalesege.

Thank you.

SHORTAGE OF TRACTORS IN OKAVANGO CONSTITUENCY MR K. K. KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): asked the Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security if he is aware of the acute shortage of tractors in the Okavango Constituency and that this negatively impacts on any efforts to enhance food production; and if so, what initiatives will be introduced to improve this unfortunate situation.
ASSISTANT MINISTER OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT AND FOOD SECURITY (MR MOLEBATSI): Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, mo kgaolong ya ga Rre Kapinga ya Okavango go na le diterekere di le nne fela tse e leng gore ke tsa beng ba tsone (privately owned).

Go na le e le nngwefela kwa Beetsha, di le pedi kwa Shakawe, le e le nngwefela kwa Seronga.

Go bo go nna le terekere e le nngwefela ya Puso e e leng gore e dirisediwa Integrated Support Programme for Arable Agricultural Development (ISPAAD).
Masimo a a lemegang kwa kgaolong ya Okavango ke 7 753.19 hectares, mme masimo a, a lemiwa ka terekere, a lemiwa ka megoma e e gogwang ke leruo e ka nna ditonki kana dikgomo le go dirisiwa megoma e e tshwarwang ke batho.

Mr Speaker, bontsi jwa masimo a a santse a na le disana, mme ba diterekere ga ba rate thata go tsena mo masimong a a nang le disana.

Se re se dirang re le Puso, ke gore beng ba masimo, ba epe disana gore ba diterekere ba kgone go tla go ba thusa.
Jaaka re tsena mo palonyana e e kana ya batho ba ba nang le diterekere, re rotloetsa re le Puso gore batho ba reke diterekere ka gore mo re bona e le tshono ya go dira madi ka gore fa ba lemela ba tlaa duela.

Jaanong ga re eletse thata re le Puso gore e nne rona ba re tsenang mo go rekeng diterekere, re di tsenya mo kgaolong.

Ke yone private sector led economy e re e batlang.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR KAPINGA: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Minister, ke solofela gore o lemoga jaaka ke lemoga gore matshelo a batho ba Okavango a ikaegile mo temong le leruo, jaaka o tlhola o utlwa ke bua ka Kgomokgwana.

Gompieno ke bua ka terekere rra, ka gore go buiwa ka go oketsa go ntshiwa ga dijo mo lefatsheng la Botswana.

Fa o lebile fela diterekere di le four, di lebile kgaolo e e kana ka Okavango, a di ka kgontsha gore go ntshiwa ga dijo go oketsege?
Jaanong o bua gore go rekiwa ga diterekere ke boikarabelo jwa batho in their private capacity.

Ke lefe lenaneo la ga Goromente wa gago rraetsho, le le thusang yo o eletsang go ka reka terekere go ya go lemela batho, a ye go thusa mo go oketseng productivity ya temo mo Okavango?

Re lebile gape gore this is a low income area.

A o na le lenaneo fela le le itebagantseng le kgang e go leka go tokafatsa seemo?

Ke a leboga.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke a go leboga Mopalamente yo o tlotlegang.
Santlha fela ke dumalana le wena gore palo ya diterekere e e mo kgaolong ya gago e kwa tlase, kgaolo yotlhe e na le diterekere di le nne.

Gape ke gatelela mafoko a me gore re le Puso, re bona e le tshono mo bathong ba kgaolo eo, le wena o le mo teng Mopalamente gore o reke terekere o kgone go itirela letseno.

Go na le opportunity ya business ka gore o a bona gore diterekere di di nnye.
Ke sone se ke gatelelang gore we want to be a private led economy gore re se ka ra tsena fa Batswana ba ka itirelang letseno teng, ke sone se re se rotloetsang.

Jaaka o itse, fa motho a dirisa terekere, go na le lenaneo la Puso la ISPAAD gore fa o lemetse batho ka terekere ya gago, Goromente o a go duela.
Go na le gore fa o batla go reka terekere, o supa gore o ka dira kgwebo fela jaaka batho ba bangwe ba dira, o ka ya go kopa madi, e se mo ga Goromente fela, le mo dibankeng tse di ikemetseng bo First National Bank (FNB) le Standard Bank.

O supa gore go ka nna le letseno le le ka go kgontshang go duela terekere ya 9 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER gago, le bo National Development Bank (NDB) tota.
Ke sone se ke ka se buang gompieno motlotlegi, tumelo ya rona ke gore tshono e ke ya Batswana.

Ke ya lona, re le Puso ga re ka ke ra tsena thata mo go yone, le ntswa re thusa ka tse dingwe.

Ke a leboga.

MR MAJAGA: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Thank you Honourable Minister and Honourable Kapinga.
Tona, mongwe o ka go botsa gore ka lenaneo la ntlha la Puso le padile le le neng le isiwa kwa dikgaolong, diterekere tsele tse di neng di thusa batho as a pilot project le ne la pala, diterekere tsa teng di mo districts or sub districts.

Jaanong ke eng re le Puso, re sa dire fela thulaganyo e e tlhapileng through balemisi ba rona?
Kana ke kwa Shakawe, Mmadinare, Nata kana Goodhope gore batho ba ka dira boikopelo koo, appraisals di bo di dirwa ke balemisi ka gore ba on the ground, ba ka bereka le Mapalamente, Makhanselara le bo Kgosi.

A bo e le gore jaanong go na le all affidavits tse fa o ya kwa NBD kana kae, ga di ka ke tsa nna dingalo jaaka go diragala gompieno.
Jaaka Mopalamente a botsa, batho ba a dira gompieno but it is difficult, mme fa go ka tsena some of your cadres, badirelapuso, balemisi ba dira supporting letters go le clear.

Ke eng le sa leke thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo?

Go bua jalo o bua sentle, ke a dumela mme on the ground go nna thata.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

I thank you Honourable Minister.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke a go utlwa Honourable Majaga.

Se ke dumelang gore o dumalana le nna ka sone ke gore a tshono yone e re e tlogelele Batswana le the farmers.
Re le Puso, re se ka ra reka diterekere, ga tlala diterekere tsa Puso mo masimong gore le kgone go itirela letseno ka gone, foo ke dumela gore re a dumalana.

Se gongwe o se buang ke gore a mme e ntse e le rona gape, re ka se ke re nne le lenaneo le re thusang Batswana go reka diterekere gongwe kwa bo Citizen Entrepreneurial Development Agency (CEDA), re ba direla makwalo jaaka o ne o bua kana re supegetsa dibanka gore go na le tshono gone moo.
Le gone ke dumalana le wena gore ke se re ka se sekasekang gore re ka dira jang go thusa Batswana gore ba ye go reka diterekere, mme e se gore gongwe ke rona re le Puso re tlang ka di BX go tlala tsone.
Eo ke kgang e ke dumelang gore re solofetse gore re tlaa e sekaseka re le lephata gore gone mme go ka dirwa jang gore go oketswe bagwebi ba diterekere mo masimong a rona gore le yone agriculture ya rona, e nne commercialised, e nne private sector led agriculture go na le gore Puso a bo e le yone e tsentseng lebogo.

Ke dumalana le wena, re tlaa e sekaseka, ke mogopolo.

Ke a leboga Rre Majaga.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MOTAOSANE: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker.


Honourable Minister, fa o ya kwa NDB le CEDA ba go bolelela ka selekanyo sa bo 150 hectares only.

Maabane jaana Honourable Minister, mabele ga a yo mo Botswana.

A la re ga le ka ke la dira ka bofefo gore CEDA le NDB di kgone go neela batho ba ba ka kgonang go lema go simolola fa go bo 20 hectares gore ba kgone go adimiwa madi?
So that digogi di nne dintsi gore le bone batho ba ba itemelang ma 20 hectares, ba tswelele ba thusa go lemela ba bangwe under the recommendation ya lona le ba supegetsa gore 20 hectares e ka kgona go ntsha selekanyo se se kana ka eng, se ka kgontsha motho gore a duele terekere a e kolotile through CEDA.

O dira jang jaanong ka gore o tswa kwa Ministry wa Trade, o itse ka kgang e ke buang ka yone Honourable Minister.

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR MOLEBATSI: Ke dumela gore tota kgang ya gago ga e farologane thata le ya ga Honourable Majaga.

Se ke dumalanang le sone ke gore re bo re dumalana gore a re le Puso, re se ka ra tsenya diterekere tsa ga Goromente, re batle ditsela tsa gore re tsenya tsa baikemela ka nosi, fela jaaka Rre Kapinga a ne a bua.

Se ke se dumelang ke gore kana re le Puso, re nna re tlhodumela, re bona gore re fetola dilo gore re di tlhabolole ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Gongwe o tlaa bona nako e ntse e tsamaya, le yone NDB e fetoga jaanong e nna banka ya agriculture.

A bo e le gore ka e tlaabo e le focused, gongwe le tsone tse e ka di ngunganguna ya bona gore re ka dira jang gore re le banka e tshwana le NDB, re itebaganye… ka gore o a itse gore NDB e rekela bagwebi ba batona ba diterekere kwa bo Pandamatenga, gongwe ba bone gore ba structure business ya bone jang gore le ba ba kwa tlase ba ba tsenye, ba ba lemang bo 20 hectares.
Ka bokhutshwane ke dumalana le wena Rre Motaosane, gore seo se ka sekwasekwa.

Se ka lekwa, sa lebiwa e le go tlhabolola ka fa Puso e thusang Batswana ka teng.

Ke a go leboga.

NUMBER OF DOCTORS IN MASUNGA PRIMARY HOSPITAL MR S. N. MOABI (TATI WEST): asked the Minister of Health and Wellness: (i) how many doctors are currently stationed at Masunga Primary Hospital; and (ii) whether there is a stipulated/recommended number of doctors that are supposed to be there.
MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (DR DIKOLOTI): Nte ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke leboge Honourable Moabi ka potso e e maleba e. 10 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER (i) Mr Speaker, Masunga Primary Hospital has five doctors including Chief Medical Officer, who is also doing administrative duties.

(ii) Masunga Primary Hospital is supposed to have six doctors as stipulated in the Establishment Register.

I thank you.

MR MOABI: Supplementary.


Ke a leboga Honourable Minister.

Kana go supa go tlhaela Honourable Minister, jaaka o supile gore gongwe ba batlhano, ba tshwanetse go nna six.

Ke ne ke solofetse gore gongwe o tlaa supa gore jaaka ba tlhaela jaana, go ka dirwa jang.

Le gone ke kopa gore o tle o e sekaseke, o e tlhole sentle, ka fa ke tlhaloganyang ka teng, ba tshwanetse go nna eight.
Tati West e kgaogantswe ka clusters di le five, mme ka tsamaiso cluster nngwe le nngwe e ne e tshwanetse ya nna le dingaka tse pedi kana le ngaka.

A ko o tle o e lebe Minister, gore a mme o ka tswa o filwe karabo e e siameng ke bana ba gago kana jang.

Gongwe ke santse ke le foo Minister, re na le bothata, ke bua ka dingaka, ke sa bue ka Masunga kana North East fela, bogolo jang dingaka tsa matlho.

Re bona ba ba tswang Maun, Masunga, Tutume le Francistown ba ya Serowe.
Tona, re ya go bona leng ke sa re Masunga, ngaka ya matlho e le kwa Nyangabgwe, go direlela gore dikgaolo tse ke sa tswang go di balolola di thusege bogaufi fa Nyangabgwe.

Ke bua jalo Tona ka gore, re na le batsadi ba ba atleng ba latlhegelwe ke pono, ba ntse ba emetse line kwa Serowe.

O tle o fete ka yone o tlhalosetse batho ba Tati West, Bokone Botlhaba tota le lefatshe ka bophara, ka gore le ba Maun le bone ba alafiwa kwa Serowe.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke a leboga Tona.


DR DIKOLOTI: Thank you very much Honourable Member.

Kgotsa o ne o sa baya potso ya gago sentle Honourable Mavange, mme ke a utlwa gore o ne o batla go reng.

Fa o botsa ka Masunga Hospital, Establishment Register ya sone ba tshwanetse gore ba nne six mme ba five.

Ke a utlwa gore o ne o batla gore o tlhaloganye gape ka cluster.

Kwa cluster ee rra, ke gone kwa go nang le letlhokego la dingaka.
O tlaa lemoga gore, gore re bo re felela re cluster the North East District Health Management Team (DHMT), e ne e le ka lone lebaka la tlhaelo e gore ngaka a kgone go akaretsa area nngwe e e rileng.
Sengwe se ke eletsang gore batlotlegi re se ele tlhoko ke gore, re le Lephata la Botsogo, konokono ya kgang e ntle le gore re bo re simolotse gompieno kana re na le budget e e botoka ya training, e re tlaa isang bongaka le ba bangwe ba botsogo gore ba ye go itlatsa, ke gore we are moving more towards the revitalisation of primary health care, e re dumelang gore fa o ka tsaya dikgang tsa botsogo go tswa kwa moding o tlaa fitlhelela kwa bofelong go sena letlhokego le o le bonang gompieno la ba bongaka.
O ne o bua kgang e e botlhokwa thata Honourable Moabi, kgang ya matlho.

Ke le lekodise gore, nngwe ya strategies tse re tlang ka tsone monongwaga ke gore, fa go ka wela ka fa re rulagantseng ka teng, e tshwanetse gore ngwaga o fa o tla go fela, re bo re kgonne go kgorometsa kana re fetse line yotlhe e re nang le yone gompieno ya batho ba ba emetseng gore ba ka nna le operations tsa matlho.

Se se ya go tla ka gore, jaanong re bone go tshwanela gore re lomagane le ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi.
Fa e le gore ba a tlhaela mo Botswana, re bone gore re ka bua le bafe kwa ntle, re bo re tla go tsamaisa this outreach programmes or campaigns tse re yang go dira gore re kgobokanye batsadi ba rona ba ba nang le pabalelo ya gore ba ka dirwa operation ya matlho, gore kwa bofelelong e dirwe ka bonako.

Ga gona se se botlhoko jaaka go latlhegelwa ke pono, o ne o ka bo o bone thuso.
Ke sengwe se re se emetseng ka dinao re le Lephata la Botsogo, ke solofetsa Batswana le lona Mapalamente gore re se tseetse kwa godimo thata, go netefatsa gore se tlaa diragadiwa.

Ke a go leboga.

MR GREEFF: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke botse Tona gore, ka go a lemosega gore go na le tlhaelo e ntsi ya dingaka mo Botswana, le dira jang go tsibogela seemo se sa tlhaelo ya dingaka mo Botswana, ka gore le rona kwa West re na le dingwaga tse 30 re lela re ise re ko re nne le ngaka.
Jaanong ke botsa gore le dira jang gore seemo se le se tsibogele ka bofefo, ka gore go lebega se godile tota.

Le fa o ya fela kwa Marina, go tsaya molwetse bo 3 to 4 days gore a bonwe ke ngaka kwa Marina kwa Emergency.

Fa e le tse dingwe tse, tsone ga ke bue, go tsewa five, six months.

Le dira jang le le Puso, seemo se le se tsibogela jang ka bonako.

Ke a leboga sir.

DR DIKOLOTI: Thank you very much Honourable Greeff.
Kgang ya tlhaelo ya dingaka ga se ya lefatshe la Botswana, ke ya lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara.

Sengwe se se mo maitlamong a rona re le Puso e ne ya nna gore, re tlaa dira jang gore re kgone to decongest some of these referrals.

We have developed mo gotweng corridor e dipatela di akaretsa sa Scottish, Mahalapye le Sekgoma re yang go di dirisa gore re nne le outreach.
Bongaka ba nne ba eta ba ya kwa dipateleng tseo, kgotsa ba bo ba ya 11 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER to address dikgang tsa bo go ntsha dipopelo tsa bomme, mo e leng gore over a week o kgona go fitlhela re kgona to push cases di ka tshwara bo 100.

Re atolositse thulaganyo e go ya go tsena kwa dipatela di akaretsa tsa Gweta le Ghanzi.
Go feta foo motlotlegi, re le Lephata la Botsogo re tlaa bona gore re lomagana jang go feta selekanyo le ba private, gore le bone fa go tlhokafalang teng ba tle go direla mo dikagong tsa rona.
Thulaganyo e setse e tsweletse, segolobogolo mo thulaganyong ya diphilo kana go tlhatswa diphilo, ka gore ke nngwe ya tse di ntseng di babalela Batswana thata ka gore thulaganyo ya teng e ne e le ka kwano thata, mme fa o ya kwa dikgaolong di tshwana tsa Ngamiland go ntse go le botlhoko thata gore batho ba Ngami fa ba tshwanetse to dialyse gararo mo bekeng, o felela a babalelwa ke kgang ya transport go tla go dira thulaganyo e e ntseng jalo.
Dikgang tseo re di tseetse kwa godimo re le Lephata la Botsogo, go netefatsa gore e tlaa re ngwaga o o tla go fela botsogo jwa Batswana jaaka e le maitlamo a rona gore ka 2023 re bo re le setšhaba se se itekanetseng, re bo re fitlheletse sengwe se se botoka thata.

E bile ke itumelela potso eo motlotlegi, gore o mphe tshono ya gore ke kgone go tlhalosetsa Batswana ka tsone dithulaganyo tse re di tshwereng re le ba Lephata la Botsogo.

MR MOABI: Last supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.


Ke a go leboga Tona ka fa o tlhalosang ka teng, ke dilo tse di botlhokwa gore Batswana ba tle ba itse.

Mo gongwe tota ga go a tshwanela go emela dipotso gore re bo re botsa jaaka re botsa jaana, o tshwanetse wa tlhalosetsa Batswana jaaka re na le bothata, gore bo ka rarabololwa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.
Tona o tlaa dumalana le nna gore re na le bothata jwa dingaka jaaka o supa, go ya ka ditshekatsheko jaaka o kile wa supa le wena, dingaka ka bontsi di tlogela tiro di ya go batla mafulo a matalana.

Ga ke itse Tona gore maikaelelo a lona le le ba lephata ke eng, ka re a bona dingaka ke tse di tlogela ditiro di ya go batla fa go leng botoka teng.
A ga le bone e le nako jaanong ya gore, gongwe le lona le ka sekaseka kgang e, la bona gore le ka dira ka tsela e e ntseng jang gore re se ka ra bona dingaka di re latlhegela.

Ga se gore ke nako jaanong fa e le gore ba lela ka kgang ya dituelo, ga re na madi re le lefatshe ke a itse, mme fela bongaka jone bo botlhokwa, le bone gore ba ka okeletswa ka tsela e e ntseng jang.

Le ka dira dingwe tse di ka dirang gore gongwe ba se ka ba tlogela ditiro jaaka re bona ba ya go batla mafulo a matala jaana.
Ke a leboga Tona, ka fa o tlhalosang tse dingwe ka teng.

DR DIKOLOTI: Nte ke go leboge thata Honourable Moabi, gone honourable ke tshwanelo ya gore re nne re lekodise Batswana gore re tshwere jang re le ba Lephata la Botsogo le.

Re ntse re nna re ntsha statements mo Palamenteng, ke tsaya gore ke thuto nngwe e re ka e tsweledisang.
Sengwe se re se ikaeletseng ke gore in the next session, ke tlaa tla go dira statement sa the state of health in Botswana e ke tlaa e anamisang, ke e atolosa gore Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente a re fe nako le ene, re toute dikgang tsa botsogo gore ke kgone go le lekodisa le tle le nne gone fa e leng gore re eletsa gore le nne teng.

Kgang ya gore re dira jang Honourable Member, re lomagana le banaleseabe.
Re na le partnership le Baylor ka thulaganyo ya gore re ka thusanya jang gore re atolose dikgang tse tsa go ruta ba bongaka ka go farologana ga tsone.

Mo go yone re tlhophile Oncology, Out-Patient Services (OPS) and Gynaecology le Paediatric Surgery e mo go yone re lomaganeng le ba Baylor, Princes Marina le Sir Ketumile Teaching Hospital.

We have developed dilo tse gore re bone gore re atolosa jang thuto ya dingaka.
Sengwe se e leng gore Palamente e se nthusitse, e bile ke tshwanetse ke nne motlotlo ka sone, ke gore monongwaga ga re ise re nne le budget e re nang le yone ya training.

Re na le budget e e duleng diatla e re yang go dira ka gotlhe go ruta bagarona e seng dingaka fela.

O tlaa gakologelwa gore ngaka e na le ba ba mo thusang fa go tla go tsena mo go thuseng molwetse.

Other allied professions le tsone re tlile to make sure gore di ka tlhatlosiwa dithuto tsa bone.
Sengwe se re re se dirang gape mo shortage e re nang le yone, o tlaa gakologelwa gore re na le botsalano, tumalano le ba Cuba le China.

Fa re ntse re bua le other embassies kana other countries, re leka go bona gore re ka nna le tumalano efe le bone go ngoka bangwe gore ba tle go re imolola morwalo o. Kgang e ke neng ke e bua ke gore, tlhaelo ya dingaka e lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara.

Ga se dikgang tsa Botswana fela.


O ne o botsa gape gore re dira jang gore re ngoke bongaka; there is a strategy se re se dirang (develop) se se ka re thusang go nna le better retention ya bongaka jwa rona.

Ke ne ke ntsha matlhasedi a sone fela gore re tlile go letlelela ba bongaka gore fa e le gore o mo Pusong, o bo o kgona go bereka kwa ntle kana mo go ba ba ikemetsweng ka nosi.
Ba ba ikemetseng ka nosi le bone ba kgone go tla go dirisa our facilities gore kwa bofelelong, e bo re fokotsa ditshenyegelo tse re nang le tsone on medical fees.

O tlaa gakologelwa gore thulaganyo eo gore o e dire, e ama dikgang tsa mohiri le mmereki le Directorate of 12 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Public Service Management (DPSM).

Ke dilo dingwe tse e leng gore Honourable Moabi, re buisana le bone gore di letlelesege.
Kwa bofelong re ngoke ba re nang le bone gore ba se ka ba felela ba dule mo go rona.

Sengwe se re ipeileng pele ke gore, re a go rutuntsha (train) Batswana, e seng dingaka fela mme botlhe ba ba amegang mo dikgannyeng tsa botsogo until our market is saturated.

O gakologelwe thata motlotlegi gore re le Puso, re ne ra itlama gore re tswa from a resource-based economy to a knowledge-based economy.

So, ke dingwe tsa dilo tse re atletseng gadimo ka tsone, re netefatsa gore di a diragadiwa.

Ke a go leboga.
INDIGENOUS ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT MR T. MANGWEGAPE-HEALY (GABORONE CENTRAL): asked the Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry to explain Government’s position on Indigenous Economic Empowerment: (i) how Government assesses the wellbeing and progress of citizens given that the country has been known to be in the top three of the most unequal societies in the world; (ii) if Government is satisfied with the level of citizen participation in the mainstream economy in the light that most lucrative sectors of the economy are dominated by foreign firms; (iii) to state Government’s position on the need to recognise economic status of indigenous Batswana given that they appear to be lagging behind in being the main drivers of the economy; and (iv) if there are plans to constitutionally recognise indigenous Batswana in relation to other forms of citizenry.
MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR KGAFELA): Mr Speaker, maranyane a ne a ntšhwamotse.

Mr Speaker, o ne o mpiditse?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, for question number nine.

MR KGAFELA: Ee, rra.

Potso e, e thata.

Ke kopa go e araba ka Seesemane.

Part three and four ya yone e thata.

Let me just begin Mr Speaker ke re, in respect of part one, as Government, we rely on independent studies and surveys undertaken by Statistics Botswana on demographics and poverty.
We also rely on some entities such as the Public Enterprises Evaluation and Privatisation Agency (PEEPA).

In 2013 for instance, PEEPA carried out a study which then resulted in the review of the Citizen Economic Empowerment (CEE) Policy.

The Botswana Institute of Development Policy Analysis (BIDPA) was engaged in 2018 on the evaluation of the effectiveness of the CEE Policy.
The evaluations carried out revealed to us that progress in the implementation of the some of our citizen empowerment initiatives have remained inadequate.

There has been slow implementation, fragmented and inconsistent reporting as well as lack of implementation plans and monitoring and evaluation plans.

These pieces of work have now resulted in us or they have given rise to the advocacy for the enactment of the now Economic Inclusion Act, which we passed; the Economic Inclusion Act of 2021.
Part two of the question, are we satisfied with the level of citizen participation in the mainstream economy looking at the fact that most of the lucrative sectors are dominated by foreign firms; of course, we are not satisfied.
That is the reason why Mr Speaker, we have brought about the Economic Inclusion law of 2021 to put in place the institutional setup and the mechanism to facilitate implementation; to strengthen enforcement; to address the need for clarity, uniformity and alignment, and to ensure compliance.

Mr Speaker, we are at present in the process of establishing structures and processes for implementing the law.
These includes the development of the Economic Inclusion Regulations, whose draft I do have at hand, and which I am still pondering over.

Now, part three and four, let me get to the controversy.

The Member of Parliament (MP) refers to indigenous Batswana.

He wants to know what Government’s position on the need to recognise the economic status of indigenous Batswana given that they appear to be lagging behind in being the main drivers of the economy.
Mr Speaker, I am not sure, I do not have a clear answer for this because firstly, I do not quite know indigenous Batswana reference to that really means.

I am not so sure whether the MP wanted to say black Batswana as opposed to white, Asians, Hispanics and so on, but he says indigenous Batswana.

I do not know how far back in history do we go and what the cut-off point is.
The cut-off which date becomes a cut-off point from which all people beyond that date are considered to be indigenous Batswana, all others before that date are not indigenous because we Bakgatla ba ga Kgafela, will be not indigenous because we come from South Africa.

I 13 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER have asked myself the likes of Mohammed Khan, who used to seat in this Parliament for Molepolole North, whether he too is not an indigenous Motswana.
That is why I cannot properly answer this part.

This part Mr Speaker, is quite difficult because a source of reference to agree on who is indigenous or who is not, I have not been assisted with.

What we have in the Economic Inclusion Act is a “targeted citizen,” which does not make a distinction on the basis of the straightness of one’s hair or not, it looks purely at the historic economic disadvantage of the person.

It does not look at his race, whether he is Asian or not.
So, as far as that law is concerned Mr Speaker, it looks at all Batswana who are citizens and who have suffered historically some economic disadvantage.

So, I do not have an answer.

Do we have plans to constitutionally recognise indigenous Batswana in relation to other forms of citizenry?

Mr Speaker, again, it is very difficult.


Our Constitution has repealed the part of it which deals with citizenship which was Section 20 to 29 and it has left it to the Citizenship Act to deal with issues of citizenship.

So, the Constitution no longer deals with citizenship but in relation to citizenship, there are provisions which prohibit discrimination.

They may have a bearing which is Section 15.


But under the Citizenship Act, we have citizenship by birth, decent and settlement in relation to those who were in Botswana as at the 30th September 1966 and have lived as citizens amongst the various tribes or who have been accepted by those tribes to be members thereof.

They have made a declaration by taking up citizenship of Botswana, those are citizens from 1966.

We have citizenship by adoption- somebody born outside this country but adopted by citizens.
We also have citizenship conferred by the President at Section 10 on the basis of good work done.

So, those are the forms of citizenship which are available in this country.

Now if we are to make a Constitutional recognition of indigenous Batswana, Mr Speaker, I would leave that to Batswana to determine, but we will have a problem of the date, cut-off point before which those who were not in Botswana cannot be considered to be indigenous and only those who were in Botswana were indigenous.
So, I do not know how far back in history should we go for us to then say one is indigenous to Botswana or is not.

We have Africans, people living in the north of Africa.

Although they in Africa, they are considered to be people of the Middle East and those people are considered to be white.

So, it is going to be extremely difficult to distinguish on the basis of one being indigenous or not, but it is easier if you say a black African, white, an Asian, Hispanic and so on and so on.
I will possibly have a source of reference if the question was couched in that manner.

I cannot help the Honourable Member in the way in which the question has been couched with respect.

Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mangwegape-Healy.

...

Silence... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Le nna ke ka sia, motho a araba jaana, ke ka tlogela le nna.

MR SPEAKER: O siela eng?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)...

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A Honourable Mangwegape-Healy ga a na supplementaries?

MR SPEAKER: Go lebega jalo.


MR MATHOOTHE: Supplementary Mr Speaker.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re le nna ke tle ke botse because potso e e botlhokwa thata e bua ka empowerment ya Batswana tota le gore position ya lefatshe la Botswana e fa kae.

Ke ne ke re ke botse fela gore how far ka molao wa Competition Authority ka gore ke mengwe ya melao e e leng gore fa e le teng e operate e ka kgona go sireletsa Batswana gore ba kgone gore ba nne le itsholelo e e botoka?
Ke yone e ke neng ke re ke e botse because ke e botsa jaana ke... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Honourable Speaker, am I audible?

MR MATHOOTHE: Ke santse ke filwe chance sir.

Ke e botsa jaana Mr Speaker, ka gore o tlaa fitlhela mo Botswana jaana go rua dikoko fela e le gore ke ga bangwe batho because ba rekile rights tsa teng.

Jaanong ke ne ke raya gore a tlhalose gore ba tsamaya fa kae ka kgang ya Competition Authority ka gore ke yone e e ka re thusang thata mo go tokafetseng itsholelo ya Batswana?

Thank you.
Thank you.

MR KGAFELA: Yes, when it comes to competition, it is easier to answer because it is not based on whether one is indigenous or not.

It may well be Mr Speaker, that the one who is engaged in conduct which is harmful 14 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER to competition happens to be of a particular race, but what we look at is not the race, it is the person and what that person is doing.
So, if there is dominance which is harmful to our economy, the Competition and Consumer Authority will step in to deal with it.

Mr Speaker, I am aware of the many instances or distress calls by Batswana that certain populations of Batswana are dominant in one industry or the other or there is what you call vertical integration.

We seek to address it.
Quite often when I do send the Authority to go and investigate for me, I receive answers which I am unable to dispute or gainsay, but we continue Mr Speaker, to investigate because when you look at some of them, you would find that of course, the face of a company looks like it is a particular person but when you get into the ownership of it, you will find lots of black Batswana involved therewith, but at the end, we look at the company itself and see whether it is involved in conduct which is anticompetitive.
Now to allay the concerns of Members of Parliament although I was not prepared to deal with this matter on the basis of indigenous Motswana, we know that numerically, black people are numerically superior in our population.

By reason thereof, when we look at the population of those who have suffered economic disadvantage, because of the numeric superiority of black people, it will be them.
So, most of will fall within what is described as a “targeted citizen”, not based on the fact that they are black but based on assessment, they can be described as targeted people.

But if an Asian person comes as a citizen of Botswana and he falls squarely within that description, he or she would not be prohibited from benefiting out of the expression a “targeted citizen,” and that is why I made examples of some of our Indian folks who have been here for a long time but they are citizens.
In Mochudi, we have the likes of bo Adam’s Apple, they are of Indian origin mme ke Bakgatla.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ba bina eng?

MR KGAFELA: So, if they are disadvantaged or their children are, so …(interruption)… be excluded.

They are citizens of this country, ke Bakgatla sir, they have been accepted into the tribe.

Ba bina Kgabo because they came ba bona Kgosi, not themselves, but their ascendants.

The late Sandy Grant e ne e le Mokgatla.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... Sandy Grant?


MR KGAFELA: Sandy Grant, yes sir, o ne a bina Kgabo, o ne a rupile, a filwe mophato.

He was a white man but a tribesman, belonging to a tribe because the Chief of the tribe accepted him to become a member.

He is not alone sir ba bantsi batho ba e leng gore ke Bakgatla ba nna kwa Kgatleng, mme e le batho basweu.

So this thing of indigenous or distinguishing on basis of race is going to be extremely difficult for us to deal with.

I thank you Mr Speaker.


MR LUCAS: Supplementary.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Honourable Kgafela, kana ke wena o buileng o ba o re tlhalosetsa le tse re neng re sa di itse o re, batho ke ba lefatshe la Botswana ka metlhale e e farologanyeng.
O ne o supa gore go na le ba e leng gore they are citizens by adoption, wa ba wa bua gore they are citizens by settlement, gore fa o ne o le mo Botswana ka 1966 ka di 30 tsa ga September, wa ba wa supa gore go na le ba eleng gore ke citizens tsa Botswana ke Batswana ka gore President o ba neetse Botswana.

Wa ba wa bua gape gore go na le ba e leng gore they are citizens by birth, ke gore ke banni ba Botswana, baagi ba Botswana ka letsalo.
Go dumelwa gore le batsadi ba bone ga e ka ke ya re o latedisa wa fitlhela e ne e le citizens by settlement, adoption or citizens conferred by the President.

Jaanong batho ba ba bidiwang gore ke citizens by birth, kana ke bone ba re batlang go itse gore a gona le thulaganyo ya ka bomo ya gore go itebaganngwe le gore bone bao ba neelwe itsholelo.

Ke selo sa ntlha?
Ke selo sa ntlha?

Sa bobedi ke gore Honourable Kgafela, a o ka latola kgang e e reng bontsi jwa batho ba ba tshwereng itsholelo e ya Botswana are citizens by adoption, settlement and citizen conferred by the President?

A o ka latola kgang ya gore ke bone ba tshwereng itsholelo e?

Sa bofelo rra, go na le sectors tse dingwe tse o fitlhelang di tshwerwe ke batswakwa tseo go tlhamaletse, tse di tshwanang gongwe say the banking sector.
Ke re a thulaganyo e ya lona ya targeted citizens e na le tsamaiso epe fela e e ka lekang go tsenya Batswana mo sectors tseo tse o fitlhelang di tshwerwe ke batswakwa gotlhelele, e bile ga go na pelaleo ya gore batswakwa ke bone ba di laolang?

Ke a leboga rraetsho.

MR KGAFELA: Mr Speaker, out of all the categories on citizens which I have listed, amongst them there are many who are not black but they are citizens by birth.
Citizen by birth is not restricted only to those who are black, there are many who have Asian origin, but they are citizens by birth, because they were born in Botswana.

At the time of their birth their parents were citizens of Botswana.

So you must look at it in that context.


15 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER As to whether I accept that the economy a lot of it you find it in the hands of people who are not black, I really do accept that, that is the case, but it is not a case of they not being citizens by birth, it is a case of they not being black.

Now is our Economic Inclusion Act working towards bridging this gap?
As I have said, majority of us are black in this country and by reason thereof as majority of us when you look at those who are disadvantaged will of necessity be black.

When you look at what is meant by targeted citizen, in effect it is going to predominantly be addressing black people, not exclusively, but predominantly it will.

So the regulations we are building and the office which we seek to establish, black people will benefit and they will be elevated, but not exclusively sir.
I just wish to make it clear that it is not inclusive, because the small population of poor Whites, poor Asians, the doors will be open in that office to them too.

Poor Hispanics, poor Caucasians, poor citizens of this country, there will definitely be a small minority, but the doors will be open to them.

Thank you Mr Speaker.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Supplementary.

Thank you Mr Speaker and sorry about the connection.

Kgabo, ke utlwa dikarabo tsa gago ke a leboga motho wa ga Kgamanyane.
Go lebega o kare selo se se tlileng go re ntsha mo mathateng a, kgangkgolo e e tlileng go re ntsha mo ke kgang ya Economic Inclusion Act.

Jaanong Kgabo ka gore go lebakanyana molao o fetile, motho o ne a ka batla go itse gore, when should we expect the regulations to come before this House, because it looks like ke gone golo mo go ka re gologang go gaisa dilo tsotlhe?
Further to that Kgabo, ke tsaya gore o tlaa dumalana le nna gore Batswana ba le bantsi kgang e ya indigenous, even though I must explain, I am not talking about colour, I am talking about ba ba neng ba le fa ka 1966 le dikokomane tsa bone.
Jaanong ke batla go itse gore wena, from your point of view, kgang e Batswana ba le bantsi e a ba tshwenya, do you not think the time has come for us to have a conversation regarding indigenous citizenry ya this country, because there is this confusion ya gore go buiwa ka white or black people?

So that Batswana can all have an opportunity to say who they see as an indigenous and then maybe we can starting carving policies that will meet our economy inclusive of them.
Ke a itse gore Economic Inclusion Act o buile ka yone, mme there might be others tse di tlhokang gore we cover them, which are not covered gongwe ke molao wa go nna jalo.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, thank you Kgabo.

MR KGAFELA: Let me just firstly say the Economic Inclusion Act Mr Speaker I am pressing my officials for us to arrange for its part commencement, because I am aware that there is an urgent need for it to be operationalised.
So I am trying my best to part commence it, so that those parts of it which can commence before regulations are in force, they should forthwith commence.

We are working on those, I have asked them to look at the whole statute and see which can start and which cannot start without regulations.

I have been given by the Attorney General a draft of regulations which we are pondering over in our office to see their appropriateness.
So I will work on part commencing, because all it needs is for me to appoint a date and then inform the public that with effect from this date this law has now commenced and then we will identify those parts of it which will commence.

Now regarding people who were already here in 1966, the whole concept of one being indigenous Mr Speaker is a very difficult one.

We have a lot of people who have now been conferred with citizenship who were not here in 1966.
Generally when we pass law and we develop, we do not develop retrospectively, we enact for the present and the future, not retrospectively.

So we may find that those people who have acquired certain rights by virtue of having been given citizenship, having applied for it post 1966, it might give us a nightmare to try and start dissecting Batswana into categories of those who were here 1966 and those who were not here in 1966.
What I know Mr Speaker, is that there are a lot of people who are of white origin, European and Asian descents who were here already in 1966.

That is why I have a great difficulty in dealing with this matter on the basis of indigenousness or that one was here in 1966 or not.

As I have said, I have no doubt in my mind that because those who it is contended are indigenous; Batswana ba sekei.
The long and short of it Mr Speaker, is that re iphatlha ka monwana, what we are really saying is that there are black people.

I have said that population shows that black people are in the majority in this country, it follows that those who are going to be found to be targeted would be reflective of the population of the country, the proportion.

Majority of them are going to find themselves meeting the description of a targeted citizen.
As I have said, it cannot be exclusive because those who may have come after 1966 but lived for decades knowing themselves to be Batswana, they cannot by the stroke of their pen be considered to be 16 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER disadvantaged by virtue of their colour, or the fact that perhaps their ascendants were not here in 1966.

I think Mr Speaker, with respect it can become an apocalypse, a great disaster to our people if we were to drift in that direction.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR KGAFELA: Le botsa dipotso tse di thata borra.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SALESHANDO: Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo.

Ke ne ke kopa go botsa Tona just two questions.

Ya ntlha; report e e dirilweng ke ba Botswana Institute of Development Policy Analysis (BIDPA), ba lebelela gore policies tsa Citizen Economic Empowerment (CEE) di tsamaya jang, a ke e o ka e abelanang le Mapalamente gore re ipalele, re e utlwisise, kana ke ya lephata la gago le le nosi?
Ya bobedi; ke utlwa se o se buang ka Motswana wa sekei, mme kana lefoko le le dirisitswe thata ke Tautona wa lefatshe e bile e le moeteledipele wa Domkrag fa a ipapaletsa ditlhopho.

Kwa Maun e ne ya re a bua teng a re o tlaa itebaganya le Motswana wa mmala wa sebilo.

Wena o itse Setswana botoka go na le nna, ke ne ke mo utlwisa gore fa a re Motswana wa mmala wa sebilo, wa sekei, o raya yo o montsho.

A wena ga o utlwisise jalo gore Motswana wa mmala wa sebilo, Tautona o raya mang?
Le gore a o tlhagisitse Tautona gore kgang e a e phatlaladitseng a re o batla go itebaganya le Motswana wa sekei, it will lead to a disaster jaaka o ne o bua, go leka go kgaoganya setšhaba gore ke ofe yo o leng wa sekei, le yo o seng wa sekei?

Ke a leboga.

MR KGAFELA: Kana potso fa e bodiwa Mr Speaker, e ne e re an indigenous Motswana.

Fela fa o bua ka mmala, then there is a clear source of reference for me ka gore kana fa o re motho wa mmala wa sebilo, it is clear to me.
I would have been in a better position if Mapalamente were that blunt with me go sa iphitlhiwe ka monwana gotwe black people, that I would understand.

Fa o re an indigenous person, foo ke gone ke reng I do not have a source of reference to say who is indigenous… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, President a re Motswana wa sekei, wa mmala wa sebilo.

Your boss.

MR KGAFELA: He qualified it.

You can pick it from yourselves Members of Parliament (MPs) that you are wa sekei, wa mmala wa sebilo.
I would understand gore… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, go bua Tautona, o se ka wa re MPs.

MR KGAFELA: I am trying to illustrate to you sir gore I am assuming that you are quoting him gore wa sekei, wa mmala wa sebilo.

He would immediately see gore go ne ga nna bofefo gore gotwe wa mmala wa sebilo and I would understand that gore wa sekei, the only reason why he would move to wa mmala wa sebilo is an acceptance gore wa sekei does not meet readily with a description.
A bo a utlwa gore e description e ka tswa e se yone, that is why he would then immediately move on a bo a re wa mmala wa sebilo.

A batla go papamala gore go tewa black people.

Le nna I would really like Mapalamente to say black people fa e le gore ba batla go tualo.

I do not think His Excellency (HE), you can interpret his statement o kgaoganya Motswana wa sekei le motho wa mmala wa sebilo.
They must be read and heard together go supa gore lefoko lantlha, o tshwanetse a ne a amogela gore go na le ketsaetsego, le ka se ka la tlhaloganngwa.

That is why a bo a itlhaganelela gore wa mmala wa sebilo.

Jaanong le lona le le Mapalamente, that is why o sa kgone gore wa sekei o bo o ema foo.

Wa re wa sekei, o bo o re wa mmala wa sebilo to give it meaning gore what you are really saying is the black people.

MR SALESHANDO: Kana mme ga o nkarabe.


MR KGAFELA: Kana you are trying to get me to say HE nna le ene re a farologana.

Ga re farologane because if you too are able to immediately see gore ga a felela foo, o rile wa sekei, a bo a re wa mmala wa sebilo.

Why else would he be quick to say wa mmala wa sebilo?

Kana ke gore lefoko lantlha you accept gore le ka tswa le sena a proper source of reference.
To drive the message home ba re wa mmala wa sebilo, ke gone jaanong go utlwalang, otherwise e ne e le gore he was clear in his mind gore Motswana wa sekei go tewa eng.

O ka bo a kile a ema teng foo, a bo a sa fetelele a re wa mmala wa sebilo.

I take it gore it was clear in his mind gore sekei is impossible of a proper definition, that is why e le gore he has to now qualify it ka wa mmala wa sebilo, meaning a black person.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O arabela potso efe jaanong?


MR KGAFELA: Ke araba potso ka gore you are seeking to put me in a corner and try to illustrate that HE and I are different, we are not… 17 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)... DR MATSHEKA: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke reeditse Tona thata a tlhalosa kwa tshimologong ka go ikaega ka studies tsa BIDPA and Statistics Botswana.
Re sa tsene mo kgannyeng e ya sekei, le ntswa ke utlwa gore tota maikaelelo a Puso ke go tlhalosa dipharologanyo tsa itsholelo, le go tsaya karolo mo meamusong ya lefatshe le.

Ke batla go itse gore a ba mo seemong e le Puso gore ba direle down mo studies tse gore ba felele ba wela kwa mothong yo montsho, kana ene Motswana wa sekei jaaka go buiwa?
Are they willing to go down and get Statistics Botswana to provide more data e e amanang le potso e e botswang gore intervention e e tlhokafalang which is desirable, e kgone go tswa mo studies tse gore Goromente a nne le a position which is much more firm and clear?

Thank you.

MR KGAFELA: Yes Mr Speaker, we are willing to do that and I have forgotten to answer this when Leader of the Opposition (LOO) asked.

We are willing to share the report, there is nothing that we do here which we then keep secret.
I would ask them to provide that report and share it with Honourable Members.

Now to answer Honourable Dr Matsheka’s question, I have no doubt in my mind as I have said, I do not know how much I should say to drive this point home gore the effect of implementing this law is that, it is going to address black people predominantly.

As I have said, we are numerically superior and by reason thereof, the poverty population, a lot of us fall within that.
It is going to predominantly assist black people, less of other races by reason of the fact that they are numerically inferior.

Therefore, when we get into those records, I expect that most of the people who will occupy the space of assistance would be black people, fela fa o lebeletse the population ya rona.

As I have said, it will not be exclusively to black people.

All others, however small number is it, may fit this description of a target citizen.

It will be unfair to then exclude them.


Fela ditlamorago tsa Act ke re, the effect of it without offending the Constitution ya parts tsa discrimination, re lebeletse dipalo tsa rona, e ya go nna batho bantsho ba ba thusiwang.

I cannot take it any further than this Mr Speaker.

We need a workshop.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, I think you have done justice to it.
COMPENSATION FROM CHARLESHILL- NCOJANE ROAD DAMAGES MR M. G. J. MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): asked the Minister of Transport and Communications to state: (i) the number of houses that have been identified for compensation resulting from damages during the construction of Charleshill-Ncojane road; and (ii) timelines when such compensation will be paid.

Later Date.
Later Date.

UNEMPLOYMENT SURVEY MR M. BALOPI (GABORONE NORTH): asked the Minister of Finance and Economic Development whether an unemployment survey has ever been undertaken within the last five years: (i) what the outcomes of such survey, if any, indicate about unemployment numbers; (ii) whether there are no identified sectors that Botswana has comparative advantage on and which Botswana can focus.

(iii) on in order to generate more jobs.

Later Date.
REVIEW OF THE COMPANIES ACT MR D. L. KEORAPETSE (SELEBI PHIKWE WEST): asked the Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry if he would consider a review of the Companies Act and other related laws to make it illegal for entities that are incorporated in countries that have non- disclosure laws to own in part or in whole companies registered in Botswana and to make it mandatory for companies that sell services or products within Botswana to have the financial transactions go through the local banking system to avoid tax avoidance, transfer pricing and other undesirable consequences.
MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MR KGAFELA): Mr Speaker, we are unable to review the Companies Act, for the purposes sought by the Honourable MP, because to do so, means actually that all investors who come into this country from outside will not be able to own shares in locally incorporated companies.

We think it will be a totally unattractive proposition to them.

It is important that we remain open to investors and allow them to either wholly own a company here or partly own it.
18 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER I see the concerns raised by MP regarding tax avoidance, transfer pricing and other undesirable consequences.

I can assure the MP that the problems are partly dealt with.

When you look at transfer pricing, this House has enacted Income Tax Act, and at Section 36 (a) of it, it seeks to deal with transfer pricing.
In 2019, regulations were also promulgated; the Income Tax Transfer Pricing Regulations, which if read together with Section 36 (a) of the Income Tax Act, are meant to deal with this problem.

Mr Speaker, I must say from the onset that properly this part of the question ought to have been answered by the Ministry at Finance because it rests entirely on tax laws.
However, I must accept that there still remain loopholes where people are able to transact and are engaged in business in Botswana, and in consequence of which not paying tax at all.

I can give examples Mr Speaker; for instance, things which are bought electronically and they are delivered electronically; services bought outside the country electronically and delivered electronically.
We have instances of lodges in the tourism industry where bookings are done outside the country and paid outside the country, yet the enjoyment of the service being here in our tourist attractions.

Those are problems.

However, as I say, they are better answered for by the Ministry of Finance.

When I engaged them Mr Speaker, they have advised me that they are working on them to find a way of ensuring that tax is collected.
The Honourable MP has suggested that we make it mandatory for them to maintain bank accounts in this country, and route all their transactions through these bank accounts.

It is a proposition Mr Speaker, which I would leave to my colleague to consider at Finance.

However, with the little research I have done, there is nothing objectionable about it.

That is if it is easily implemented.

I do accept that those challenges are here, they are with us.
However, relating to Companies Act Mr Speaker, those are the reasons which I have given why we cannot tinker with that law because it will frighten away our investors.

I do not think I can take it further than this Mr Speaker.

MR KEORAPETSE: Supplementary.

Ke a utlwa Honourable Minister.


Gongwe ke botse lantlha gore, fa potso e ntse jaana, e le gore e ama Ministry wa lona le wa Finance, ga se gore le ka bo le berekile mo karabong e lotlhe gore Palamente le setšhaba kwa ntle kwa ba itse karabo ka botlalo?

Le gore jaanong suggestion ya gago ke goreng, ke gore a potso e e tle gape mme e lebagane le Ministry of Finance?

Back to the question, a ko o tseye sekai se tshwana le company of Reconnaissance Energy Botswana.
They list Reconnaissance Oil and Gas Corporation 1850150 which is registered in Canada as their sole shareholder.

Then they supply to you Honourable Minister Certificate of Incorporation from the British Virgin Islands, and you have accepted this, and you have also even published on your website of CIPA.

My question ke gore, do you find this acceptable?

Kana that is the most important thing se e leng gore Batswana ba tshwanetse gore ba se itse.
Le gore how do you now as CIPA or as Botswana identify the ultimate beneficial owner of the company registered in Botswana?

Le gore this practice a wena ga o bone e tsuulola the international anti money laundering practices?

E nngwe ke gone gore, mme jaanong kana o ne o bua ka ba Ministry of Finance, and it presents me a difficulty ya go go botsa dipotso tse.
Kana this is against the blacklisting of European Union (EU), and the grey listing of Financial Action Task Force (FATF) and thr not so laudatory verdicts by other observers elsewhere.

You answer is that there is no need to legislate for companies selling goods and services mo Botswana gore their transactions di tsene through the banking system.

The big question is, how do you now guard against transfer pricing, misinvoicing and profit repatriation?
As I have said Mr Speaker, the backdrop of this question ke yone anti money laundering practices.

Ke collection ya Government revenue which is intertwined with the issues tsa tax collection, transfer pricing, mis-invoicing le profit repatriation.

Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ke tsaya gore Minister o nkutlwile ka dipotso tse, my concern ke gore and I agree with him that mostly they border on the economy, mme kana jaanong fa ke bua ka bo Companies Act, I had to ask him the question.
Thank you.

MR KGAFELA: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the challenge we had is that the question is lumped up as one.

One aspect dealing with a law which I am administering and another dealing with a law administered at Finance.
Now, I can confidently in respect with the law that I administer, say to the Member of Parliament (MP) that his proposition is untenable because what he says is that, foreign entities must not own companies which have been incorporated here and I am saying that… 19 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER MR KEORAPETSE: No.

That is not what I am saying.

Can I clarify Mr Speaker?

MR SPEAKER: Yes.


MR KEORAPETSE: If you have a company e le gore gatwe it is the one which owns an incorporated company mo Botswana, but in a country which does not have disclosure laws, that is where we have problem ya gore jaanong who is the beneficial owner.
That is why I gave an example ya Reconnaissance Energy Botswana that they have been listed that they are owned by company e e kwa Canada as their sole shareholder but jaanong they supply you with a certificate of incorporation se se tswang kwa British Virgin Islands.

The question e ke neng ke e go e botsa ke gore do you accept this as fine le gore jaanong the beneficial owner o ya go mo lemoga jang?
MR KGAFELA: Mr Speaker, I can assure the MP that when it comes to beneficial ownership, our company law requires this to be placed on record but that is not what the MP was asking sir.

He says it must be illegal for those companies from foreign jurisdictions owning in part or in full companies here in Botswana.
That is the pith of his question and I said nobody from outside will come in here, incorporate a company and then accept to be told that he cannot own it because he comes from a jurisdiction which has none disclosure laws.

That is why I said we cannot tinker with the Companies Act for that purpose.

Now, the balance of his question Mr Speaker, borders on tax and I must correct the MP to say that I have never suggested that I am averse to funds being routed through local banks.

I never said so.
I never said so.

I said it is a proposition which officials are pondering over and they have not rejected it, provided it is capable of being done.

So I am not averse to it.

I did not say that I reject it.

The balance of the question Mr Speaker, really borders on tax and as I have said, this question should have been divided into two parts; one part being for me and the other part being for the Ministry of Finance.
But at least with regard to those parts, I will be able to deal with like transfer pricing; the statutes were readily available in my hands to look at.

The other issues of tax avoidance Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to adequately address them but it has been accepted that problem is there.

There is tax avoidance.

I can say Mr Speaker that, I am not so sure if I understood the example that he gave.
All funds, if a company here is to declare dividends and it is to transfer or to repatriate funds out of this country to shareholders outside the country, they are taxed.

I cannot imagine how they can escape the fingers of the taxman, they will be taxed because they are here.

They operate from here.

They operate bank accounts here but you cannot stop them from repatriating those funds, provided they have paid the tax.
I am not so sure whether the MP is insinuating that these companies evade tax, notwithstanding that they are situated here in Botswana.

I would wish to be enlightened to see how they manage to accomplish that but I stand on good authority that they are taxed and that tax get collected and goes into Government’s coffers.

I am not denying the tax avoidance that the Honourable MP is alluding to and it has not been denied either when I was conducting research on this question from the officials.
MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Allocation of Tourism Sites at Chobe (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Order!

Honourable Members, the debate on this Motion is resuming.

When the House adjourned last Friday, we had just called upon Honourable Minister Shamukuni to take the floor.

MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT leboga Motsamaisa (MR SHAMUKUNI): Ke a Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
Ke tseye sebaka se ke akgele mo mogopolong o re o beilweng pele ke Motlotlegi Leader of the Opposition (LOO), Rre Saleshando.

Ke kaile last week ke re kgang e ke ya moruthutha mo kgaolong ya me, e bile sector ya tourism mo kgaolong e farologane.

Bangwe ba ne ba supa gore ee, gongwe sites di ne di sa tshwanela go abiwa, mme bokete particularly the locals; tour operators or local small operators ba supa gore go ka tswa go na le an opportunity gore gongwe we should proceed ka yone.
Ke fetise just a request to the Honourable Minister e ba e mphileng mo mosong o, particularly the small operators Mr Speaker, gore Minister fa a ka bona nako, a ye kwa Kasane a ye go kopana (interact) le bone, go leka go tlhaloganya diemo dingwe, le bone ba mo abele megopolo mengwe mabapi le go ntsha sites tse gore Batswana ba akole mo go tsone.
Mr Speaker, Chobe National Park e tona and it is around 11,700 square kilometres (km2) not hectares, km2 and the area e Motlotlegi Saleshando a buang ka yone, congestion ya yone ke stretch sa around 15 km along 20 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE the river front.

O tlaa gakologelwa gore river frontage ya the Chobe National Park e bophara and it stretches close to 50 km.
So go raya gore the focus here is on the 15 km which is congested but to the eastern side of the Chobe National Park along the river front, ga go na dikgang tsa congestion ka gore bontsi jwa activities ga ba nke ba di isa ka koo, mme the wildlife experience ka koo le yone e ntse e siame fela.

The issue ya size ya park e re bontsha gore it can accommodate more than eight sites for lodge development.

Question fa Mr Speaker gongwe ke the process ya identification ya those sites.
Ke lemoga gore Motlotlegi Tona Kereng, o re beile mafoko when responding to Motion wa ga Leader of the Opposition (LOO) a supa process ka fa e tsamaileng ka teng.

Ke a kgotsofala gore o dirile sengwe le sengwe a setse molao morago, ka gore fa ke bapisa mafoko a ga Tona le molao o re o dirileng, o re o mo diretseng re le Palamente gore a tsamaise park, ke lemoga a sa tlola molao ope, ka jalo ke retelelwa ke go ka ema nokeng mogopolo wa ga Saleshando.

Mo nakong ya gompieno ke ya go wela ke o gana.


Fa ke re Tona ga a a tlola molao Mr Speaker, the Wildlife Conservation and National Parks Act fa o ka lebelela Section 6 ya control of national parks, e fa Tona dithata tsa control, management and maintenance of national parks.

That is the Wildlife Conservation and National Parks Act, e fa Tona dithata.

Section 6(D) ya yone e mo fa powers to let sites for the erection of shops, hotels or other buildings for accommodation or recreation of visitors.
Ke dithata tse molao wa Wildlife Conservation and National Parks Act o o fetileng ka Palamente e, re di fileng Tona.

Of course we understand gore, Tona ga a ka ke a palama setlhare fela a bo a ya go supa sites gore fa go ka nna lodge, fa ga go ka ke ga nna le lodge, she has a research unit ya biologists and ecologists in her ministry, who are there to provide technical advice as and when she needs it.

Ke tsaya gore they were there to give advice about those sites.
Jaaka ba sector ba kopile, gongwe fa Minister a ka bona nako ga go ka ke ga bolaya sepe a sa emise thulaganyo ya gagwe, go ya go buisana gape le particularly the small operators ba ba kwa Chobe ba ba nang le lenyora la gore le bone ba leke go mo fa mabaka a gore e bile a ka enhance to empower them ka tsela e e ntseng jang, ka gore mo nakong ya gompieno that is what we need, to empower them le bone ba tsene mo bojanaleng ka mo go tshwanetseng.
Issue ya congestion Mr Speaker, along the Chobe River Front, ke eletsa gore re tle re remelele mo dintlheng di le pedi.

Ya ntlha; kana congestion e nna teng ka gore we have not diversified the product base kwa Chobe kana activities tse re ka ngokelang bajanala mo go tsone.

Ke gore fa re rile game drive le boat cruise, re a bo re feletse gone foo.

Kana to diversity this product, ke space sa the private sector.
Government has done sepe se a ka kgonang go se dira, gore private sector e tsene e diversify activities tsa kwa Kasane, gore go se ka ga lebelelwa river front fela go bo go nna le congestion.

Fa o ya kwa toropong ya Victoria Falls, e re phadisanang le yone ka bojanala you would easily spend a week mo Victoria Falls, o sa borege le fa e le ka letsatsi lepe, ka gore there are so many activities.

They cannot single out any activity ba bo ba re fa go remeletswe fela mo go yone.
You go to the aquariums, bungee jumping and all sorts of activities, and activities tse are driven by the private sector.

So gongwe part of the strategy is to call upon the private sector kwa Kasane, gore the role ya product diversification e mo go bone, and ba tshwanetse gore ba e emele ka dinao.

Ke kopa nako Mr Speaker, ga ke e bone.

Ke kope Honourable Minister gore, we have an opportunity ka Kasane-Kazungula Redevelopment Project.
A project e re e emeletse ka bonako, ka gore it will yield lefatshe which we will diversify product ka lone.

Gore go nne le more activities mo Kasane which will draw attention away from the Chobe National Park e bo e kete fa go ilwe Kasane go elwa river front fela, mme go na le mafelo a mangwe a re ka a tlhabololang gore activities di nne diversified, di nne teng.
Ke yone e ke e eleditseng thata Tona, gore a e ya Kasane-Kazungula Redevelopment Plan re e fefose ka pele, ke yone selotlolo mo go rona mo go lekeng to decongest activities along the Chobe River Front.

Jaanong Mr Speaker, ke tlaa retelelwa ke go dumalana le Honourable Saleshando, ka gore fa o ka lebelela Batswana who responded to this advert of expressing interest, they are over 200.
Mo nakong ya gompieno gore gotwe re emise process, ke tsaya gore bontsi they will feel short changed ba ne ba na le maikaelelo a to benefit mo dispensation e ya gore Batswana ba nne le seabe le bone in the heart of tourism, where they can also benefit sengwe mo go tsone.
Ke wele ke re, re na le tsholofelo kwa Chobe ya gore Expression of Interest (EoI) as it was advertised, the small operators ba kgaolo ya me ba ntse ba bidiwa small operators for almost two decades, e le gore ga ba ke ba bona an opportunity e e ka ba godisang gore le bone e tle e nne babeeletsi of note.
Kana opportunity ba e bona 21 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE fa ba filwe lucrative sites to establish activities tsa bone, gore ba gole, go se ka ga gola ntlha e le nngwefela, ba gole e nne Batswana ba golela mo kgwebong eo gore kamoso re supe some millionaires in the hospitality industry, e le Batswana re ba file opportunity, gona le gore ba nne ba bidiwa small operators fela.
Jalo he, tsholofelo ya me ke gore, e tlaa re fa process e ya go wela Mr Speaker go tlaa nna le ba Chobe kana those operating mo kgaolong ya me ba le babedi ba le bararo, who will benefit from these sites.

Mr Speaker, ke retelelwa ke go ema nokeng LOO.

Ke eletsa gore Batswana and local operators, ba nne le an opportunity.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister.

Honourable Deputy Speaker, followed by Honourable Ambassador Kapinga.
MR MOATLHODI (TONOTA): Ke a go leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, good afternoon sir.

Fale le fale mafoko a me a tlaa tsamaya a welana le a ga Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa kgaolo, yo e bileng e le ene Motlotlegi Tona wa tsa Pereko, Khiro le tse dingwe.

Mr Speaker, it remains the prerogative of the Ministry of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism, to express interest over and before any stakeholder as this ministry serves as matlho a rona re le Puso ya lefatshe le.
Mr Speaker, tourism is our second income earner after minerals, and we therefore need to be very alert, let alone vigilant on all matters, whether for or against, on all matters or intentions as the said ministry.

In English we say, there is no smoke without fire, I so say Mr Speaker, because it appears from the consultant’s report that she is of the view that, the ministry harbours views different from her paper.
Mr Speaker, I want to make it categorically clear that, nothing should and must pressurise the Minister responsible for Tourism to adopt the consultant’s report, mutatis mutandis.

The Honourable Minister, through studies and efforts carried out by the staff at her ministry can and shall produce a report well-detailed report as and when she deems fit.

Honourable Minister, please focus vigilantly on all barongwa ba gago ka go lebega o losa noga le baji ba yone.
Mr Speaker, I do not support the Motion by the Leader of the Opposition (LOO).

Instead I agree and stand by the ministry’s position.

I strongly urge the Honourable Minister to ensure that her constant and watchful eyes are kept on the ball at her ministry as tourism being the golden pond of this country.

Mr Speaker, batho ga ba ka ke ba sukagana jaaka mosutisi a bua ka jaana seelo se beilwe.

Indeed, seelo ga se reye gore batho botlhe ba ba 200 ba tlaa tsewa.

It is only eight that shall be considered.


Once more Mr Speaker, I do not support the Motion as advocated for by the LOO.

I stand and… ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): On a point of clarification.

Thank you so much Mr Speaker.


Rra Nkamo, fa o lebile, ka fa Batswana ba sa bolong go sokola ka teng gore ba tsene mo businesses tse, ga o ka ke wa nna le pelaelo ya gore fa gongwe mosutisi wa Motion o, go na le Makgoa bangwe ba ba ka fa morago ga gagwe ba ba mo kgarametsang gore se Goromente a lekang go se dira gore Batswana ba tsene mo kgwebong e, ba kganelelwe kwa ntle.

Go sale bone fela ka gore Minister o tlhalositse gore lefatshe lele le le tona fela thata.

Ke a leboga.
Ke a leboga.

DR GOBOTSWANG: On a point of procedure.

Mr Speaker, o ka nthusa foo, o kare Honourable Assistant Minister o tsamaela go akanyetsa LOO, gone mo go imputing improper motive.

O ka re o tsaya gore go na le sengwe kwa ntle ga se e leng gore o a se bua, se se bofitlha.

Ga ke bone gore gone moo re tshwanetse re go letlelele.

Ga ke bone gore go ka fa tsamaisong Mr Speaker.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Mma re utlwe yo o bodiwang gore a o a di itse.

Fa e le gore o a di itse, o tlaa re bolelela ene.


MR MOATLHODI: Ke a go leboga Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, morena wa me yo ke mo ratang thata.

Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona wa tsa Botsogo le Boitekanelo bontlha bongwe o tsere dikakanyetso mo go nna.

Motlotlegi Moeteledipele wa Kganetso, bojanala jo bo a mo ama ka gore kwa kgaolong ya gagwe, o na le dikgatlhego tse di ntseng jaana.
Re mo ngwageng ke a dumela wa boraro re ntse re le mo Palamenteng, o ntse a tshwerwe ke eng a sa tlise kgopolo e?

E bile matlho a me ga ke latlhela kgakala le ditsebe, ke utlwa gotwe golo gongwe kwa ministry wa ga Tona, ga ke re ke Moeteledipele wa Kganetso, mongwe o kile a ya go sukura bana ba ga mmaetsho Tona a ba raya a re, “le tshwere pampiri nngwe e ke e batlang, e e nang le dikgatlhego tsa me, e e mo tirong e e dirwang kwa Chobe.” Ga ke re ke ene, mongwe.
Ditsebe tsa me le dinko tsa me di nkga phefo e mongwe a kileng a ya go sukura bana ba.

Ke sone se o utlwang ke 22 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE raya Motlotlegi Tona ke re, Tona, sema mosese mosadi, bofa lebante o lebe bana ba gago, go lebega re losa noga le baji ba yone.

Lefoko le la go losa noga le baji ba yone, ke na le dipalaelo tse Motlotlegi Mothusa Tona wa Botsogo le Boitekanelo.
Ke one mafoko … THE OPPOSITION (MR LEADER OF SALESHANDO): On a point of order.

Mr Speaker, Honourable Moatlhodi o itse Standing Orders sentle, ga di letlelele to impute improper motives.

Se Mothusa Tona Lelatisitswe a se buang ke gore, o belaela gore ke tlisitse Motion o ka gore ke buelela Makgoa mangwe a a nang le madi.

Se Honourable Moatlhodi a se buang ke gore, le ene ke pelaelo ya gagwe.

Jaanong ga e ka ke ya nna pelaelo fela ba sa ntshe bosupi.

Fa ba sena bosupi, it is imputing improper motives.
Go tlaabo go raya gore ba boele mafoko a bone kwa morago.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: I was trying to understanding mafoko a o reng Tona a lebelele bana ba gagwe.

Mongwe o kile a ya koo a ba sukura.

E tsena kae mo tlhalosong ya se se neng se buiwa ke Honourable Lelatisitswe?

Ga ke itse ke e tshware.

Honourable Deputy Speaker, kgang ke eo; the objection is that what you are saying, you are imputing motives to the mover of the Motion that he was urged by some people to bring this Motion, in short.
Where is the evidence that he was urged on to bring the Motion?

That is the objection.

MR MOATLHODI: Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ke tlhalositse morena wa me … Kelebogile.

O ne a e tle e re fa kgang e buiwa jaana, fa motho a tlola a re o raya nna, Motlotlegi Rraetsho Masalila o ne a re, “if a cap fits you, wear it.” O ne a rialo.

LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): On point of procedure.
Mr Speaker, golo mo go tlaa re tsenya mo mathateng, go tlaa lwa le procedures tsa Ntlo e. Ke utlwa se LOO a se ngongoregelang Mr Speaker, gape ke se re dumelang gore rotlhe re tshwanetse ra se ngongoregela.

This is what we should guard against.


Fa o utlwa ke botsa procedure jaana, ke gakgamalela gore gompieno fa LOO a kopa this thing, is it procedural looking into what happened recently when they imputed improper motive mo go Tautona wa lefatshe le, go bo go sa kopiwe gore Rre Keorapetse a tle ka bosupi kana fa e le gore ga a na bosupi, a a boele morago?

It has never occurred.


Gompieno LOO, go lebega o kare bangwe will impute improper motives, e bo e le gore ke gone jaanong Standing Orders di tshwanetseng gore di dirwe, are we still following our procedures of this House?

MR SPEAKER: Yes, we are VP.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Terena e sale e emeletse, wena o bua ka dilo tsa bogologolo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kante VP o batla go nna Speaker kana jang?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A bagaetsho.

re tsweleleng HONOURABLE MEMBER: Bosupi bo kae?

Wa re go tlhalosa, bosupi bo kae?


HONOURABLE MEMBER: A nako ya me e funolotswe, ke ka tsamaya?

MR MOATLHODI: O se ka wa ntsena ganong!

O se ka wa ntsena ganong, ke tloga ke go bolelela gore kwa kgaolong ya gago go diragala eng.

Ke tlhalositse gore ke belaela gore mongwe, ke bile ka tlhalosa gore ga ke ise ke re Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Bophirima.
Ke rile dinko tsa me di nkga phefo, ditsebe tsa me di utlwile mokgwasa gore mongwe o kile a sukura bana ba ga Tona a re, “ke batla pampiri e e tsamaelanang le maikaelelo mangwe a a ntseng jaana kwa Chobe.” Ka ba ka tlhalosa ke re, ga ke re mosutisi wa Tshutiso ke ene.

Ke a belaela ka gore mongwe ene ke mo utlwaletse.

Mma ke digele Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.


Go kile ga nna le Mopalamente mongwe, o kile a tsena Palamente le nna a emetse kgaolo ya Nkange a bidiwa gotwe Motlotlegi Ambrose Basiko Masalila, rraagwe HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nako e a tšhaya, re batla go akgela Mr Speaker.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke ne ke batla gore o ntlhalosetse sengwe foo.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: His Honour needs to heal.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go kopiwa kwa go Speaker, e seng nna.
MR SPEAKER: The Honourable Deputy Speaker was explaining that he had made it clear that he is not referring to the Leader of the Opposition who is the mover of the Motion, not directly.

Not doing directly but some person who worked in the Ministry of Tourism 23 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE wa ga Mme Kereng.

So, I wanted to close that chapter before Honourable Moatlhodi can be let to go.

O utlwile Honourable Saleshando?


He is repeating himself gore no, he is not referring to you.

In fact, he said that person is not you.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re kepese e rileng jaanong?

O buile sengwe ka kepese.

MR SPEAKER: Ga ke itse ka dikepese.

MR RAMOGAPI: Point of order.


Mr Speaker, kana kgang e e teng ke gore Honourable Lelatisitswe o ne a re, “ke belaela gore LOO might be sponsored by bangwe makgoa go tlisa mogopolo o…” MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, ga o a mo utlwa sentle, o ne a botsa the member on the floor gore wena ga o belaele gore the mover of the Motion gongwe o ne a dirwa ke bangwe makgoa?

That is why I said I wanted to hear the reply, yole a bo a re, no.
MR RAMOGAPI: Ehe, nna ka re gongwe o ne a re ee, ke utlwile o kare a re ee, ke belaela jalo.

Ke ne ke mo utlwa o kare tota a rialo, ke a leboga.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke belaela gore gongwe o ne o tsositse modumo o sa reetsa.

MR RAMOGAPI: Ke mo utlwile le fa re ka batla tape.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: O tlaabo a tsosa modumo as usual.

MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re PPP o nkgopotsa sergeant wa me yo mongwe o ne a bidiwa 2773, Sergeant Thebenyane wa kwa Mmathethe.
E ne e re re na le nako e re neng re sa amogele reports a bo a bua bo mutatis mutandis le fa ba sa tseneng teng tota.

Jaanong o a bo a nkgatlha a tsenya mutatis mutandis a bua ka gore o bonela kgakala, ke re mme o ye go tlhola matlho PPP.

Ke belaela gore matlho a gago ga a sa tlhole a bona sentle.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke mogoloo, o se ka wa ntlhokela tlotlo nnaka, ke mogoloo.

MR KAPINGA: …(Laughter!)...

OF TRANSPORT AND MINISTER SEGOKGO): COMMUNICATIONS Procedure.
Mr Speaker, gongwe legale ke ne ka se ka ka utlwa sentle.

Ke ne ke re ntlha e e neng e ntshiwa ke (MR Honourable Kapinga, a o ne a ka bo a e ntshitse fela a beetse kwa thoko leina la ga sergeant ka gore gongwe o ka se ke a ikarabela kwano sir?

MR SPEAKER: I was not sure whether that is the real name of the sergeant, ka fa a neng a kgatlhega teng.

MR SEGOKGO: Ehe, mme ke bona a tlaa itsege Mr Speaker, ke bona a sa mo direla sentle.
MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, the …(interruption)… e mo go the Deputy Speaker, not the sergeant.

MR KAPINGA: Mr Speaker, ke ne ke re gore Mopalamente wa Chobe a bo a ka kopa Minister gore a ye go bua le some players in the tourism industry about this issue, reveals a lot.

Ke gore e confirm pelaelo e ke neng ke ntse ke tla ka yone mo debate e gore there has not been enough consultation on this matter.

Ke sone se Minister Machana a kopang his colleague gore ke kopa gore o ye kwa Chobe o ye go bua le bo semangmang.
Mr Speaker, kgang ya me e ke batlang go e gatelela ke gore go lebega Goromente yo a rata tsamaiso ya to ambush ka policies.

To ambush ka polices Mr Speaker, o go bona ka mekgwa yone e e ntseng jaana e ya gore go bo go sa rerisanngwe le batho.

Dikgang di bo di buela ka fa tlase ga ditafole Mr Speaker.

Se re se bonang fela ke go setse go ntshiwa declarations gore re ya go dira jaana.
Maloba ke buile gore tsamaiso ga e tshwane le go ntsha mmutla mo thorong ya magician mme malatsing a, it is very consistent with this Government.

Tsamaiso ya bone ke ya magician yo o somolang mmutla mo thorong re sa itse gore mmutla o o tswa kae.

Unless I am so behind ka information, ga ke ise ke utlwe gotwe Minister o ile go bua le batho ba Chobe ka kgang e ya lodges tse eight mo Chobe National Park along the riverfront.

Ga ke ise ke utlwe go buiwa jalo.


Ga ke ise ke bo ke utlwe go buiwa gore Minister o kile a ya go bua le batho ba Chobe gore re le Goromente wa Domkrag, re na le maikaelelo a gore jaanong re laletse ba ba batlang go ikopela ditsha tse di boferabobedi tse di along the riverfront.

Ke sephiri fela Mr Speaker, all along and out of the blue, something pops up.

E bile some people are saying in this particular case this invitation was flighted mme e rile ka nako e e khutshwane fela e bo e ntshiwa mo maranyaneng.
Selo se se supa Goromente yo o senang boammaaruri Mr Speaker, wa botsotsi le tsietso.

Bo Goromente ba ba dirang jaana ba iphitlha ka gore re batla to empower Batswana and I will always say this until I leave this Parliament.

I have lived in countries tse e leng gore corruption e ne ya mela medi e mekimakima under the pretext of empowerment.
Gotwe 24 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE re empower batho ba bantsho, re empower Batswana, go sena boammaaruri.

Fa go ka bo go na le boammaaruri, mongwe le mongwe o ka bo a itse e bile a sena bothata le go itse gore Goromente o tsamaya fa kae mabapi le plan e ya go introduce tourism sites mo Chobe National Park.
Fa o utlwa Minister fela a bua gore Mopalamente and a Leader of the Opposition gore fa a batla information from public servants o a bo a itshunya nko, o itse fela gore Minister yoo o latlhegile, o kaila mo lefifing.

This Government is supposed to be a democratic, transparent and accountable Government.

This information is not a private property of Honourable Minister Kereng, it is public information.
It is very condescending gore e re a Leader of the Opposition a re ke kopa information e, go bo gotwe o sukura bana, gotwe o itshunya nko.

to go against the science.

Ga a na tshwanelo to go against the facts.
If the science says, you are going to disrupt the natural environment, you are going to seriously disrupt the movement of animals in the park, ga a na right, unless she has reached a level of arrogance e e leng gore science does not mean anything to here like Donald Trump, a ka bua gore, nnyaa moo ga go reye sepe re kgona to change fela ka fa re batlang ka teng, jaaka a ne a bua maloba a re, “re kgona to change fela jaaka re ne re batla to change ka teng.” Donald Trump o ne a bua tsone dilo tseo Mr Speaker.
That is not responsible Government.

Ke batla go raya Tona ke re, do not go against the science.

Fa e le gore o batla go tsenya Batswana ba tsenye mo mafelong a a siameng, a e leng gore ga a tle to cause disruption.

That is arrogance of the highest level Mr Speaker from this Government.

Ba dira jalo ka bomo ka gore ba ipolelela gore ba busa ba le nosi, Goromente yo ke wa bone.

Ba ipolelela gore lefatshe le ke la bone ba ka dira se ba se ratang ka lone, ka gore ke bone ba ba busang.
Rona ba re mo opposition they look at us as people who are interfering.

We are not interfering, we are properly elected Members of this Parliament, representing our constituencies and the people of this country.

MR HIKUAMA: Clarification Mr Speaker.

O e tshwere sentle comrade Kenny Kapinga.


Jaanong ke batla go botsa gore kante fa e kete Matona a Puso le bo Honourable Moatlhodi ba batla go supa gore e kete ke phoso gore Mopalamente kana ope fela yo o batlang document tsa Puso a bo a itshunya nko e bile a sa dire sentle, o go bona e le eng golo mo go ntseng jalo?

MR KAPINGA: Ke go bona e le arrogance of the highest level.

E bile a misconception e e very serious, e e tlhokang gore they should reset their mind.
Ba itse gore, gore ba bo ba le in Government ga go reye gore this country is their private property.

They should recognise gore we have a legitimate role as Members of Parliament, regardless of whether we are opposition to find out what is happening in this country and doing our representative work effectively as it is expected of us.
Mr Speaker, ke batla go go raya ke re, process e e setsweng morago e it is a typical Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) mentality, e already go setseng go itsiwe gore go batla go sukunyetswa bomang.

E kgang ya gore re batla go tsenya Batswana, re batla goreng, re batla goreng, is not true.
Gape the Minister needs to know gore much as she has the executive responsibility to lead the Ministry of Environment ga a na tshwanelo Honourable Shamukuni o buile ka fa park e leng tona ka teng, le nna ke a e itse ka fa e leng tona ka teng.

Your responsibility is to develop interest in the other parts of the park, rather than to worsen the congestion.

O bo o bua jaaka Shamukuni a bua gore, nnyaa once the congestion is there people will think about the diversity ya the tourism package.
You should diversify the product first and after you have diversified the product, that is when you expand the tourism facilities, o itse gore you have already identified the activities that are going to bring diversity in that area.

Otherwise you are deliberately ignoring scientific and professional advices for political advantage.

Deliberately ignoring professional advice because o batla go neela bangwe.

O batla to push agenda nngwe, which is not necessarily in the national interest.
It is not in the national interest to congest that area, to disrupt that environmental area ka mokgwa o o eletsang go e dira ka teng Honourable Minister.

Kea leboga.

MR NKAWANA: Procedure Mr Speaker.

Yes Mr Speaker, ke lemoga gore ke ne ke tsholeditse pele ga mongwe le mongwe mme bana ba gago ba bo ba diga lebogo la me.

Jaanong go nkisitse kwa ke ka nnang ka se ka ka bona chance ya to debate ntswa ke ne ke le wa ntlha.

I am asking for your indulgence.


MR SPEAKER: Ga ke itse motho yo o digileng letsogo la gago Honourable Member.

Le gana go tlisa maina.

Ke bua maina a a mo tafoleng.

O kwa morago gore.

MR NKAWANA: …(Laughter!

)… MR SPEAKER: Ke a go bolelela.

Honourable Majaga.

MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Lentswe ga le yo, mme I will just try my level best.
Ke supe gore ke ntse ke tswa kwa Kasane, ke le 25 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE kwa Chobe National Park.

Ke ntse ke tswa kwa Panda.

Ke bo ke supa gore Tshutiso kana Motion o ke o badile thata, ke o tlhalogantse, re teng, re bantsi mo komiting e e e tsamaelanang le dilo tsa bojanala, e e mo ntlong e. Ke supe Mr Speaker gore this Motion o ne o se urgent selo sa ntlha fela.

O ne o se urgent gore o bo o tlile gone mo.


A lot of urgent things tse di tsamaelanang le bojanala di na le ka fa di a tle di dirwe ka teng.

Bangwe ke baipelaetsi, le bangwe ba ba rileng ba atle ba dire dithulaganyo fela tse di tlhapileng gore fa go na le seemo ba thusiwe, e re go pala fa gongwe ba bone Tona.

Mo Motion o fa a ka bo Leader of the Opposition a kopane le Tona, gongwe re ka bo re dirisa nako e go dira tse dingwe.

Go ne go ka nna kaone thata.


Ka mongwe le mongwe o na le ka fa a lebang dilo ka teng, gape re mapolotiki rotlhe, re baemedi ba batho, o mo Ntlong mme fa o bona ba bangwe ba palelwa ke go bua jaana, ga ba itse gore ba tlaa dira eng, ba lebe kae, ba reng.

Re a itse dikgaolo ka bontsi Mr Speaker ka fa Motion o buang ka teng gore re tshela ka bojanala.

Re tshela ka bojanala le temothuo mo Kgaolong ya me ya kwa Nata-Gweta.
Go tsweletse trusts ke gone re simololang, re kopile gone kwa bo Maun gore batho ba kgone go nna le letseno la ditiro.

Chobe National Park jaaka motho a ne a bua is a big area.

Se se ka dirwang mo nakong ya gompieno se setona those sites can be allocated with a clear management plan e e dirilweng ke ba ministry le consultants tsa bone.

Go na le lodge gompieno e tona, ke ya bangwe batho, ga e a bolo go nna koo e ntse e fiwa licences e le nosi.

Go sa buiwe ka batho ba a tshaba, mme re tlile go swa rotlhe.
E ntse e le foo e le ya bangwe batho.

Re ne re tlhola re ya koo.

E bile go ne go kganelwa batho.

Jaanong gompieno fa gotwe, go ya go okediwa those sites mathata a teng ke eng?

Hei!

batlotlegi Mapalamente ga re yo mo bojanaleng, ga re yo Batswana ba banyenyane.

Jaaka ke ne ke utlwa Shamukuni a bua fa, ke ne ke tshega thata ke re a-a!

mme ka thulaganyo e rotlhe re a e itse go thata, a golo mo go nne clear.

A go ye go nna allocation.


Se re ka bong re se bua ke gore, Minister le the board or committee that selects, a e ye go bona bagwebi ba ba botlana, ba fiwe, ba tlaa tsaya madi through the loans.

Ba tlaa nna consortiums or group, e se individuals.

Batho ba dikompone tse di nang le mathata is the small industry tsa tourism.

Ga ke bue ke re gatwe, ke bua ke itse, ka gore ke nna gone kwa.

Jaanong ke bone ba ba mo selelong se setona.


Jaanong if they feel gore they can be allocation le bone ba nna batsayakarolo, that is fine.

There will be other sites.

Go na le kwa southern area, forest reserve le sites tse di ka dirwang, di dintsi mo Chobe, to avoid that congestion e e koo.

Ele e dirwa ke gore bagwebi ba dikompone tse ditona… e bile fa ba ka ya go fiwa gone kwa, go fiwa bone fela, re tlaa ya go poka kwa Kasane re le bantsi.
Ba tlisa dikoloi di le 200 tsa game drives le mokoro yotlhe, ba na le sister companies kwa Zimbabwe le Namibia mme ke bone ba ba akolang bojanala.

Ba bannyennyane ba mobile safaris ga ba akole sepe mme ke bone ba ba dirang Puso e. Bangwe ba dikompone tse, accounts le madi a bone ga a nne mono; a nna kwa moseja.

Fa o ya teng o ya go fitlhela e le gore madi ke a batho ba dikompone tsa batho ba ba seong.
Jaanong fa go baakanyetswa Batswana ba ba nnileng lebaka ba sa fiwe tsamaiso e. Mr Speaker, mo nakong ya gompieno ka fa bojanala bo saletseng kwa morago mo Batswaneng ka teng, ke dumalana gore ba fiwe fa go dirilwe ditshekatsheko.

Ya Chobe Redevelopment Plan, eo e siilwe ke nako; e tlodilwe ke dipeba.

Re batla market places tsa tourism mo Chobe jaaka kwa bo Livingstone le Victoria (Vic) Falls, so batho bale ba rona ga ba na market places tsa tourism, ba a diila.
Fa o tsena fa market wa Village Development Committee (VDC), tota o ka ipotsa gore is this a tourism hub town, rona ba re nnang kwa bo Pandamatenga, Nata le Kazungula malatsi otlhe.

Ke tsone dilo tse di batlegang, not tomorrow but now because bojanala jo ga bo a bolo go tshwarwa ke batho bangwe ba e leng gore ke Batswana.

Kana malatsinyana a ga gotwe Motswana wa sekei, nna ka re Motswana yo e leng gore borraagwemogolo ba na le diphuphu go ne fa.
Ba bangwe gone mo borraabonemogolo ga ba na diphuphu, jaanong ga ba a bolo go tshwara.

This thing is clear, e ka gogomosa bangwe maikutlo fa ba e bua.

Jaanong re ne re re gongwe Minister o tla sentle, a re le diphologolo di tsenngwe mo masimong, go nne le sites tse bangwe Batswana ba ka tsenang.

Tonto tshipidi; Batswana ga ba a bolo go palelwa ke this industry because go batlega madi mangwe.

Batho bale ba a sotlega ba mekoronyana le ba eng.


River front view Minister, take a bold decision; go iwa ditlhophong mme go supagale gore o a laola.

Bo Marina, Chobe le Mowana ba tlisa dikoloi di le bo 400 mme ga gona linkages ya industry kwa.

Ba fitiwa ke bo Rre Molebatsi, Rre Gare le ba bangwe ba e leng gore gongwe o kare ba ya gone koo.

Go fiwa bone ba batona mo e leng gore those small ones, boats di ka bo di dirwa ke small companies tsa Batswana.
Jaanong ke sone se ke reng Mme Mma Kereng, o tla sentle.

E re re bua jaana re 26 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE ye gone kwa go iponela.

Rona re tlhola mo go bone mo bo Kasane le Kazungula, re ya gotlhe gone fale.

Kgaolo ele e tona, Chobe National Park e ka bo e le a big hub ya tourism ya Vic Falls.
Fa e ka bo the mover of this Motion a tlile a re re kopa gore go fokodiwe ditlhwatlhwa ka gore this sector has been hard hit by COVID-19, ke ka bo ke mo ema nokeng jaaka go okediwa madi a guides from P100 to P200, madi to cross go iwa kwa bo Vic Falls, batho ba berekela go duela bridges le these service levies only... HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification tsala ya me Majaga.

MR MAJAGA: …but this one no, ke motho yo ke mo tlotlang thata, ke lepolotiki; o kile a ema a jewa nako nngwe a boa gape.
Le rona re kile ra ema ra jewa, re a tlotlana, ga gona mathata mme fela o ka bo a tlile ka Motion o o kopang Tona gore fa e le sengwe, these levies nnyaa, ke ka bo ke sena mathata.

Jaanong ke ne ke re batsadi, congestion ya lodges on the park, no.

Ke e nngwefela e e ntseng e robalwa ke batho bangwe, rona re kganelwa go ya kwa go yone.

A go ye go okediwa mme Batswana ba nne teng.

Ga re batle gore Tona re tle re lwe ka wena.


Batswana ke raya ba ba kwa godimo le ba bangwe ba ka iphutang ba le Batswana ba bannyennyane, gore le rona re tsene.

Jaanong ke yone kgang ya me e ke e itseng.

Gape ke bua jaana ke le Modulasetilo wa Komiti e; dilo tse ke di itseng.

So ke ne ke re tota ba bangwe ga ba mo debate ya Motion Mr Speaker, bone ba araba se se neng se buiwa ke Tona.

Here we are debating the Motion and not go araba Tona.
Tona o buile mafoko a gagwe, o buile se a se dirileng go leka go phunyeletsa gore Batswana ba tsene gone foo, which is very good.

Jaanong fa re simolola o kare ke Minister’s Question Time, re araba Mma Kereng gore o ka bo a dirile se le se mme re bua a Motion no, we do not take that road fa re le mo Motion.

Re tshwanetse go lebelela mabaka, re bona gore Motion o ke o re o buang kana re o ntshetsa kwa ntle ka fensetere.
Jaanong ke sone se ke neng ke gakolola gore o ka bo a tlile ka Motion ofe, yo e leng gore ke selelo.

Ga ke itse, gongwe ke tlaa ya Maun next week, gongwe bone ga ba bolawe ke levies mme Mokhanselara Rre Kgake o ntse a lela, motho yo o sa bolong go join dilo tsa bojanala ka bo 1977, gore go maswe Batswana ba a lela.

Jaanong ga ke itse gore Rre Dumelang kana ga a utlwa ka levies tsone tseo, a tla ka gore Batswana ba se ka ba fiwa some lodges in the park.
Jaanong dilo tse Mr Speaker, a re di lebeng jalo, re direle Batswana.

Minister o na le boikarabelo, le bana ba gagwe ba ba berekang koo are professionals mo parks than us.

MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Member for Nata-Gweta.

MR MAJAGA: I thank you, I do not support this Motion.

MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Majaga.

Your time is up.

Honourable Members, you will remember that this is a two hours’ debate and it is almost time now.
I have to call upon Honourable Leader of the Opposition LOO, Honourable mover of the Motion, here he comes.

Please take the floor Honourable LOO.

MR SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): Tla ke go leboge Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.

Ga ke ye go fetola mafoko otlhe, le fa Rre Majaga a re ga se nako ya go araba Tona ka se a se buileng kana go… ke yone e ka fa tsamaisong e ntseng ka teng ya go dira jalo.

Ga ke ye go fetola mongwe le mongwe, ke tlaa itebaganya bogolo thata le tse di builweng ke Tona.
A re gakologelweng gore se ke se kopang o ka se soboka ka tsela e e ntseng jaana gore expression of interest, taletso ya gore baikopedi ba supe kgatlhego, e name e beetswe fa thoko, e seng gore e latlhiwe.

E name e beetswe fa thoko go netefatsa tse di latelang; gore go na le go dira dilo mo pontsheng, ka tekatekanyo, go tsamaisanwe le management plan o o leng teng, one o bo Rre Majaga ba reng o kgaphelwe kwa thoko.

Nna ka re a o lebelelwe.


Go lebelelwe strategies le policies tse di teng tse di tshwanang le bo Chobe River Front Decongestion.

Re tsamae ka bosupi jo bo scientifically based, e seng Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo jaaka o ne o utlwa Mopalamente wa kwa Tonota Rre Pono Moatlhodi a bua a re eight o teng o lekane go na le phatlha, a sa tlise any scientific report to support se a neng a se bua.
Ga ke batle mo go hopholetswang fela jaaka ke ne ke bona e kete go a diragala, batho ba tsaya gore re ka ema fela ra re let there be light jaaka baebele e ne e bua, e bo e le gore then there was light.

Let there be evidence that there shall be eight lodges available and there were space.

Ga re tsamaise jalo mo nakong ya gompieno.

Ke batla go itebaganya le kgang ya ga Mme Mma Kereng le tse a neng a di bua.
A re fa ke botsa ka congestion e a neng a e latola, a re o ne a tsaya gore ke bua ka lodges tse di mo Chobe which was not true.

Ke batla go go bolelela ke go balela Hansard, pampiri ya Palamente.

Potso ya me e ne e re, “ke botsa se gape ka gore management plan eo, e ne e kile ya supa gape gore the part e ba batlang go dira lodges kwa go yone, it is already congested.
Fa e le gore it is congested, ke eng ba tswelela in that manner?” E ne e sa bue gore 27 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE it is congested with lodges, re bua ka congestion.

Ke Minister yo o okametseng lephata, reports tsotlhe di fa pele ga gagwe.

O tshwanetse a ka bo a ne a itsile gore there is a decongestion plan.

So fa o bua ka congestion le Chobe o le Minister yo o manontlhotlho, o a itse gore go tewa eng.
Ga o simolole gore nna ke ne ke belaela sele.

It means two things; either Minister o ne a na le maikaelelo a go sa re bolelela boammaaruri, or ga a itse se se diragalang mo lephateng la gagwe.

It can only be one of those two.

Ka re a bona gore o ne a sena maikaelelo a go re bolelela boammaaruri kana ga a tlhaloganye, a re itebaganye le tse dingwe.

A re there is only one existing lodge mo Chobe National Park, kgang e e ntseng e buiwa ke Honourable Majaga.
Ga a tswelele a re bolelela gore tshwetso e tserwe ke ministry wa gagwe gore that one lodge e se ka ya shafaletswe lease, and nako e lease ya yone e felang, it must be brought down or significantly reduced.

The Minister should know this.

O ipaya gore ga a itse gore kgang e e teng.

A re jaanong ene o bona eight a ka kgonagala.

I can forgive Honourable Pono Moatlhodi ka gore ga a itse se se diragalang kwa ministry.
Ene o ka emelela a re a re tsenye eight, ga a itse gore le yone e nosi e e gone kwa Chobe National Park, go tlilwe ke sekgoreletsi, ga e tsamaelane le management plan, le maiteko a go sireletsa tikologo kwa Chobe National Park.

I cannot forgive a Minister yo o tsayang tshwetso go tla go bolelela Palamente se e seng boammaaruri, kana go re supegetsa gore ga a itse se se diragalang mo lephateng la gagwe.

MR NKAWANA: Elucidation Honourable LOO.

Thank you Leader of Opposition.


Kana dikgang tse e leng gore Tona ga a di itse, mme o supile gore mo lodges tse, out of the eight lodges, each lodge full capacity will be 50 clients.

O ka ipotsa gore 50 clients multiplied by eight e nna 400 people per day at full capacity.

Kana batho ba ba tlhokana le dikoloi tse di ka ba tsamaisang.
If you divide the 400 by 30 days, assuming that mo koloing batho ba tsena ba le seven, you get about 57 vehicles per day, and 57 vehicles per day, in a year, you are looking at about 20,000 vehicles that will be surrounding animals, ka gore tota batho ba ba batla big five; lions being one of them.

Gore 20,000 yielded ke lodges tse eight, plus the other 20,000 yo o tswang kwa motseng, ba ba ntseng ba tsena gone mo Ihaha Valley, botlhe ba ba yang kwa Chobe Front, gore a ga a bone e le congestion?
Ke a go leboga LOO.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke a go leboga Honourable Nkawana.

Tona o itse ka dilo tse.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Kana o na le lodge.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke batla go itlhokomolosa side remarks tsa ba ba ikitseng gore bone ga ba tlhaloganye jaaka Honourable Monnakgotla a nnetse go dira side remarks tsa go supa botlhokakitso jwa gagwe.

Ke mo kopile gore a nne a didimala fa go buiwa dikgang tse di mo fetileng.

Ke batla go itebaganya le kgang e e buiwang ke Honourable Nkawana, o bolelela boammaaruri.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SALESHANDO: Congestion e e tlisiwang gompieno, e feta e e setseng e le teng, e ganetsana le bosupi jotlhe jo bo leng teng jwa science.

Look at it this way, go na le kgang e e neng e ntshiwa ya gore ke nna ke neng ke dira mosuke ka go a go batla information kwa ministry, e bile ka bona lekwalo lengwe le ke neng ke sa tshwanela go le bona.

Botlhokakitso dinako tse dingwe fa bo ne bo ka dirwa molato, Honourable Philda Kereng gompieno o ne a ya go lala kwa seleng (cell).
Ga go molato go ya go batla information o le Mopalamente, jaaka Motlotlegi Kapinga a e buile.

Ke tshwanelo, it demonstrates one of two things; either arrogance by the Minister or total lack of understanding ya se a tshwanetseng go se dira kwa Cabinet.

Go na le molao o e bileng re o kwadileng re le Palamente ya Botswana go sireletsa ba ba ka ntshang information ba e neela motho a tshwana le nna kana any other member of the public.
Molao oo, o fetisitswe ke Palamente e, o bidiwa Whistle Blowing Act of 2016.

Mo teng, ke tlaa go tlopolela one Section ya teng, 3(e).

Ya re e sireletsa botlhe ba ba ka ntshang information.

At point (e), ‘the environment has been, is being or is likely to be endangered.’ Where the environment has been, is being or likely to be endangered,’ molao o teng.

So gore Tona Philda Kereng a bo a tshwenyegile gore ke tswa go tsaya lekwalo kwa files, go rileng, go supa gore ga a itse melao ya Puso e a mo go yone.
Kana Batswana ba na le go akanya gore fa go twe Specially Elected, o na le special knowledge, but in this case, we are possibly dealing with special ignorance and not special talent.

MS KERENG: Clarification!

MR SALESHANDO: Go palelwa fela ke go itse gore tsamaiso ya Puso ke eng o le Tona, go tshwanetse go ka bo go go tlhabisitse ditlhong mo nakong ya gompieno.
28 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE MS KERENG: Ga go na ditlhong, ke kopa clarification.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SALESHANDO: If ignorance was an offence, wena gompieno o ne o ya go lala kwa seleng.

Ke sone se ke batlang go se bua.

MR SALESHANDO: Se sengwe se e se rayang ke se, go raya gore Minister and the Botswana Government we misled the sponsors.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Tlaa ke clarify gore information eo o e tsaya ka tsela e e sa amogelesegeng.

Clarification!

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Minister, you cannot force him to yield.

MR SALESHANDO: You failed to make your point o filwe nako, listen and receive a free lecture on governance.

Number four, is it true; a go boammaaruri Mr Speaker, gore experts asked that their names di ntshiwe mo report?

O lemogile gore Minister ga a e araba, ga a e ama gotlhelele.
Only this morning Minister ke gone a tlisang report e ke sa bolong go e kopa mo go ene, Permanent Secretary (PS).

ke e kopa mo go Director, botlhe ba ntikolosa.

Ke e, e bile e tla e sena leina la consultant jaaka tse dingwe tse di tsileng pele ga yone.
Go raya gore go boammaaruri gore consultants we have engaged, di kopile go tlhapa diatla, ‘gore ka fa le batlang go tsamaisa ka teng, dirang mo go senang scientific basis, ignore all the evidence before you.’ Jaaka Honourable Kapinga a ne a bua, iketsheng bo Donald Trump ba ba kgonang go bua fela gore ga go na global warming, ga le na sepe le science.

Le se ka la dirisa Batswana go ikgabetsa mo mathateng a le a dirang gore kana re direla Batswana.
Batswana ga ke tseye gore ba batla go neelwa ditshono tsa itsholelo ka tsela e e leng gore kamoso the sector e tlaabo e wele ka gore it ignored all scientific evidence that was placed before it.

Since because the answer is yes, consultants di kopile gore di ntshiwe, e bile di ntshitswe, go raya eng?

Se se raya gore Puso ya Botswana e tsere tshwetso ya gore e a go itlhokomolosa expert advice, bogakolodi jo bo lebaneng.
Go raya gape gore these allocations, jaaka ke bua, will not be based on any scientific evidence.

Kgang e e tshelang e buiwa ke Tautona ya scientific evidence led policy making, ga se boammaaruri, go raya jalo.

Se se raya gape gore the draft plan e ntshitse all the advice e e neng e filwe, e re ka bong re ne re bua jaana re e lebeletse.

Minister le lephata la gagwe ba bone gore ba e ntshe, they must deny us the right to know what the experts said.

Ba di ntshitse.
Ba di ntshitse.

O bo o ka ipuela fela jaaka Honourable Majaga a bua, o ipuela fela jaaka e kete o kwa Lekgotleng la Setswana fela gore nnyaa nna ke le Chairman ya komiti ke bona go siame.

Komiti ga e ise e ko e lebelele kgang e, ke leloko la komiti ya teng.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ke sale ka bona gore ga o tlotle le Chairman wa gago.

MR SALESHANDO: Honourable Talita Monnakgotla, re a itse gore o bone maemo a bo Tona, mme reetsa.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Nnyaa, ga o tlotle Chairman ya gago tota.
HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Order please!

May we have order please, please accord the Honourable Leader the respect he deserves, he is on the floor.

O ne a le reeditse le bua, mo reetseng.

Please, let us have order please!

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... MR SPEAKER: Please, let us have order!

Please continue Honourable Leader.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.


Go raya gore re le Goromente wa Botswana, re akeditse ba ba re ntsheditseng madi a go ya go dira management plan re ba raya re re re tlaa diragatsa se bagakolodi ba se supang, kwa ntle fa e le gore le rona re na le reports dingwe tsa boitsaanape tse di supang gore bagakolodi ba were wrong, ga re na tsone.

So we must apologise to the sponsors ka go ba senyetsa madi re ntse re itse gore re ikaeletse go dira eng.
Tshwetso yone e, e na le ditlamorago tse di maswe tse ke batlang Palamente e e di itse, e re le tlhopha gore lona le batla lodges di tswelela ko pele, le itse gore go raya eng.

Go raya gore bosheng jaana, Tautona Dr Mokgweetsi Masisi a le kwa Kenya, kwa United Nations (UN) Environmental Programmes Special Session of the UN Environmental Assembly ka 4th March, mafoko a a neng a a bua a ne a sena boammaaruri.

Ke batla go a nopola Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Do quote Mr Speaker.
MR SALESHANDO: The President kwa Kenya o ne a re, “in keeping with our international obligations, Botswana has continued to ensure high standard in the sustainable management of biodiversity, rich ecosystem such as the Okavango Delta, now listed as a world heritage site, and the Makgadikgadi wetland systems.” He said, “the country took pride in having integrated 29 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE environmental management into key developmental process guiding instruments of the National Development Plan and Vision 2036.” Go mo Daily News ya 5th March.
Mafoko a matona ke eng, ‘international obligations,’ so fa re bua jaaka nne Honourable Molale a bua a re consultants tse di batla gore ...(interruption)… se a neng a se bua, and ‘they thought we are a banana republic.’ We have international obligations.

Ga re buse jaaka Honourable Molale a bua, it is a pity go bua a former Permanent Secretary to the President (PSP), a bua jaaka a ne a bua a ganetsa se se buiwang ke Tautona.
Mafoko a matona gone fa ke ‘integrated environmental management integration into the development process.’ Se re se dirang gompieno, se tsuolola se Tautona a se buileng kwa Kenya.

Honourable Molale o ne a re o a itse gore fa re tswa fa, kamoso a bo a ka utlwa gotwe re kwaletse makgotla a mangwe a a kwa ntle ga Botswana, ee re tla a kwalela, ka gore Tautona o ile kwa a ya go ba bolelela se se seng boammaaruri, se e leng gore tshwetso e e a se tsuolola mo letsatsing la gompieno.
Fela jaaka re ya kwa ntle, re ya go ipoka fa re dirile sentle, le fa re sentse, a re ba itsise gore re tsere tshwetso ya go senya re le Palamente ya lefatshe la Botswana.

Sengwe se se tlileng go diragala gape ke se, these International Environmentalist Groups di ya go tsenya kgatelelo ka fa tlase ga bajanala gore ba se ka ba tla mo lefatsheng la Botswana ka gore le tsuolola ditsamaiso tse di tsamaelanang le go sireletsa tikologo.
Ga re a ithuta sepe go lebega jalo ka kgang ya Central Kalahari Game Reserve (CKGR) e re neng re tsositse modumo re re ga re na maikaelelo a go dira moepo.

Ra felela re o dirile, go supa gore re ne re sa bolelele boammaaruri.

Batho ba tewa gotwe se yeng kwa Botswana ka gore ba koba Basarwa mo lefelong la CKGR, ba ba kobela go epa meepo.

Re ganetsa, re senya madi a mantsi, it hurt our diamonds and tourism.
As you vote today Mapalamente, le itse gore you are inviting back this predicament ya gore kamoso bojanala jwa rona bo bo bo le mo mathateng.

Ke tsamaela go digela, ba ba tlaa tswelelang le thulaganyo e, ba se ka ba re ga re a ba gakolola.
E bile re se ka ra lebala gore le Hospitality and Tourism Association of Botswana (HATAB), lekgotla le le okametseng bojanala mo lefatsheng la Botswana, le gakolotse gore bangwe ba ba tlileng go nna mo mathateng mo tsamaisong e, ke bagwebi ba ba nnyennyane ba Rre Shamukuni a reng ke bone ba a ba buelelang.

Concerns by a professional body called HATAB, e supa gore Rre Shamukuni o ja batho ba Chobe ka loleme, ga a ba bolelele boammaaruri.

O a itse ene gore se se raya eng mo bojanaleng kwa Chobe.
Batswana ba dirisiwa jaaka batho ba kwa Zimbabwe nako ya gotwe they are empowered ka the farms.

This is what is happening in Botswana.

Ba bangwe ba ne ba tsamaya ba tabogile go ntse gotwe indigenisation of the economy, gotwe go ya go fiwa batho bantsho kwa Zimbabwe the farms, kante go bua Zimbabwe African National Union-Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF) e ipaakanya.
So le lona Batswana ba gompieno ba le nnetseng go reetsa go ntse gotwe re direla Batswana, this is zanufication of Botswana politics by the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP)…(Interruptions)… HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): May we have order please, quiet.

MR SALESHANDO: As I said, re tsamaela gore bajanala ba re latlhegele.

Mr Speaker, o tle o bone botlhoka boammaaruri jwa ga Tona gongwe ke fete ka jone gape.
Ke ne ke mmoditse mo potsong gore o itse bangwe ba ba kileng ba kopa go dira ditlhabololo dingwe in the park, ba kganelwa, a re nnyaa.

Ke na le lekwalo le le tswang kwa go ba Botswana Defence Force (BDF), ba kopa gore le bone ba itirele lodge mo teng ga park ka ngwaga wa 2017.

Ba gannwe gatwe ga re ka ke ra le letlelela ka gore lefelo le ga re batle go agiwa mo go lone.

I want to read portions of the letter le le tswang kwa Department of Environmental Affairs.
Ministry of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism o o eteletsweng pele ke Philda Kereng, ke go balele lekwalo la teng.

MR SPEAKER: Do quote Honourable Member.

MR SALESHANDO: Ke tlaa tsaya fela paragraphs di se kae.
Le bua gore, “while the Department acknowledges that the proposed lodge development has potential positive impacts of creating employment to the local people of the Chobe, uplifting welfare of retired servicemen and may contribute to Botswana’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP), our view is that the negative environmental affairs impacts of the proposed lodge at the site outweighs the positives to be derived.” Le bo le tswelela, “we advised the BDF Welfare Trust Fund to consider other less developed but prime tourism potential areas.” Ba bo ba di kwalolola.
30 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Se ba se buang kwa bofelong ba re, “you are further reminded that the development of hospitality facilities, including hospitality facilities in environmentally sensitive protected areas including but not limited to campsites, lodges, hotels are listed activities under Schedule 1 list of the Environmental Assessment Regulations for which environmental impact assessment is mandatory.” Ba gakolola ba Fund ya masole gore ga go kgonagale go go letlelela.
By the way, ba ne ba lebeletse a facility e e yang go tsenya batho ba le less than 100.

Gompieno ra re re letlelela tsa 50 di le eight, there is no consistency.

Fa Minister a ne a dira tiro ya gagwe ka boammaaruri, she should have known gore go teng mo records tse di fa pele ga gagwe.

She is either deliberately misleading us, o re bolelela dikgang tse di seng boammaaruri or she is downright incompetent and does not know what is going on in her ministry.
Having said that Mr Speaker, ke wetse kgang ya me ka gore le yone Draft Management Plan fa nako e ne e letla, I was going to point to you a lot of inconsistencies mo teng.

Inconsistencies tseo di tswa kae?

Di dirwa ke gore e rile ba sena go neelwa pampiri, ba bo ba simolola ba itlhophela gore re ntsha dife mo teng tse re sa di batleng.

Re bo re tsenya tse rona re neng re di batla, tse di seng supported ke any science at all.

Ke tshwetso e e tserweng ke lephata.


Ke rile ga ke batle go tsenelela thata mo go tse di builweng ke ba bangwe, mme tota it is a pity gore kwa Palamenteng, o kgona go letlelelwa go akgela le kgang e o sa e itseng.

O bo o bua fela, ga go na ope yo o ka go rayang a re kana mme bosupi jo bo teng, bo a go ganetsa.

Ke sone se o bonang jaaka ke ne ke bua, Honourable Shamukuni a re no law has been broken, as if ke rile molao mongwe o robilwe.

Ke gore o itiretse topic ya gagwe.


Ngaka Koma o ne a etle a re pele fa o tsenelela debate, you must define the universe of discourse.

Ga se programme e gotweng a mongwe le mongwe a latlhele tlhware legonnyana.

Fa re ne re ka tsenya molao wa to define the universe of discourse, sengwe le sengwe se se builweng ke Honourable Majaga would be shut out.
Sengwe le sengwe se se builweng ke Honourable Molale would be shuffled, yo o neng a a bua ka bo…(Interruptions)…so this for me is abuse of Parliamentary privilege.

Mr Speaker, I moved the Motion at the beginning, I want to conclude by saying I move accordingly.

Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: Order!

Honourable Members.

Standing Order 62.1 (c) allows me to execute the division.

Question put and Division called for.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure before you continue Mr Speaker.
HONOURABLE MEMBER: Go a tlhopiwa, a ko o iketle.

MR SPEAKER: I have to ring the bell for two minutes.

What is your procedure?

MR TSOGWANE: Procedure.

Kana when we move a division, it means a lot for us, especially when you are chairing.

I think what you can do, because we have already lost before we start, if one of us is not going to vote… unless you are going to vote Mr Speaker, but otherwise… HONOURABLE MEMBER: What is the procedure?
MR TSOGWANE: The procedure is that it is not fair to us, for someone who is going to vote for us, to not vote.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Interruptions!)...

MR SPEAKER: May we have order please, we are going to vote.

I have already called for the division, I have already instructed my Clerk to ring the bell for two minutes.

We are about to have the two minutes diminished, and we shall be voting.
CKERK: MEMBER’S NAME AYE NO ABSTAIN ABSENT His Excellency Dr Masisi Honourable Autlwetse Honourable Balopi √ √ 31 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Honourable Boko Honourable Brooks Honourable Billy Honourable Dr Dikoloti Honourable Dr Dow Honourable Gare Honourable Dr Gobotswang Honourable Greeff Honourable Hikuama Honourable Kablay Honourable Kapinga Honourable Kekgonegile Honourable Keorapetse Honourable Kereng Honourable Kgafela Honourable Khama Honourable Dr Kwape Honourable Lesedi Honourable Lelatisitswe Honourable Lesaso Honourable Dr Letsholathebe Honourable Letsholo Honourable Leuwe Honourable Lucas Honourable Majaga Honourable Makwinja Honourable Manake Honourable Mangwegape-Healy Honourable Mathoothe Honourable Dr Matsheka Honourable Mmolotsi Honourable Mmusi Honourable Moabi Honourable Moagi Honourable Moatlhodi Honourable Modukanele Honourable Mokgethi Honourable Molale Honourable Molao Honourable Molebatsi Honourable Monnakgotla Honourable Morwaeng Honourable Moswaane Honourable Motaosane Honourable Motsamai Honourable Mthimkhulu Honourable Mzwinila Honourable Nkawana Honourable Pule Honourable Rakgare Honourable Ramogapi √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ 32 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT - DEFINITE MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE Honourable Reatile Honourable Regoeng Honourable Saleshando Honourable Segokgo Honourable Serame Honourable
 Shamukuni Honourable Thiite Honourable Dr Tshabang Honourable Tshere His Honour Tsogwane √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ √ MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, here are the results of your voting: absent; 10, abstain; zero, “ayes”; 16 and “noes”; 37.
That means the “noes” have it.

ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021 Question put and negated.

Motion (Resumed Debate) MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Honourable Members, the debate on this Motion is resuming.

When the House adjourned on Thursday 31st March, 2022 last week, Honourable Tshere was on the floor debating and he is left with eight minutes 56 seconds.

MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente mo tshokologong eno go mpha sebaka gape.
Maloba ke simolotse ke bua ka quality, mme ke tlhalosa gore quality ke sengwe le sengwe.

Quality e mo dijong tse re di jang.

Quality e mo education, e mo melemong jalojalo.

Se se botlhokwa ka quality ke gore, re tshwanetse go lebega go na le system ya ka fa re dirang dilo ka teng, e e tshwanang le ka fa di dirwang ka teng kwa mafatsheng a mangwe, ka fa ba dirang accreditation ka teng.

O ka bona gore quality e botlhokwa fa o ka ela tlhoko items di le pedi di tshwana.
E nngwe o bo o re, “quality”, di rekisiwa tsotlhe, di beilwe tsotlhe mo lebentleleng, o tlile go bona gore batho ba tlile go reka mo go kwadilweng “quality.” Batho ba batla quality.

Ga go na ope yo o sa batleng quality ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.

Ke badile policy e ya ga Honourable Mmusi, ke e bapisa le Bill e nngwe e ke nnileng le tshono le ba Komiti ya Botsogo go e lebelela, e leng the Health Bill.

Tona Dikoloti o ne a e tlisa fa pele ga committee.

Ke bona o kare e a tlhaelanyana.


Maloba ke ne ke re, ke gore fa re santse re bua ka policy, re ka bo re bua ka Bill Morena Mmusi, gone jaana go ka bo go le more elaborative.

Gompieno jaana fa o bua ka quality, ga o ka ke wa bua ka yone o sa bue ka inspectorate.

Inspection, monitoring and evaluation, research and development ke dilo tse re ka bong re setse re di utlwa, di tswa gore re ya go dira jang gore re bone quality that we set.
Re ya go tlhola jang gore batho ba a e diragatsa, a se o se bonang ke sone.

Quality e motlhofo thata.

Fa ke e tlhofofatsa ke re, kwa bakery e e dirang borotho, re a itse gore borotho jwa teng bo tla bo ntse jang.

Procedure e e tshwanetseng go salwa morago fa o duba borotho, “duba ka metsi a a bothitho a 37 or 40 degrees.” E le tsamaiso ya gore re dira dilo jang.

E bo e le gore o le modiri, o duba borotho ka metsi a a tsididi, obviously quality ya borotho joo e ya go nna pharologanyo.
Therefore, o ka bona gore quality depends mo systems tse o di salang morago o le modiri jalo.

Mo botsogong jaaka ke ntse ke bua, quality is everything.

The error margin e o e letlelelwang kana human error or anything, it has to be less than 5 per cent mo medicine.

Anything above 5 per cent, you are considered gore ga o a tlhamalala sentle.

In fact, in other countries operations like ya dipelo, brain surgery, ya eng, they want success rate of over 80 per cent.
It means that if you operate batho ba le 10, e bo e le gore ba le 5 mo teng ba nna le bothata, licence ya gago ya to operate e a tsewa.

E tshwanetse gore if you operate fa gotwe go padile, ba le babedi ke bone 33 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) ba ka boang ba ngongorega or resulting in death.

Fa go nna jalo Mr Speaker, that is when ba tsayang licence ya gago ka tsela e e ntseng jalo.
Re ithuta ka quality ka go lomagana le makalana a mangwe a a tlaabong a seyo mo Botswana.

Gompieno fa re lebelela didirisiwa tse re di dirisang gongwe le gongwe fela, o tlaa bona go na le CE mark, European (EU) mark, Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Botswana Bureau of Standards (BOBS), Southern African Bureau of Standards, Council for Health Service Accreditation of Southern Africa (COHSASA) le tse dingwe tse dintsintsi tse e leng gore they are accreditation boards.
Ke dilo tse e leng gore re le Botswana jaaka Honourable Morena Mmusi o batla go tla ka thulaganyo ya quality, o tshwanetse o netefatse gore quality e re e dirang, ga re e itirele fela re tsaya motlhofo.

Re tshwanetse e re fa go na le quality e e beilweng ya selekanyo se se ntseng jaana sa mafatshefatshe, fa re dira le rona re dire seelo se se kwa godimo ga moo, kgotsa re wele mo go ba bangwe fa ba leng teng.
Ga go thuse sepe gore re itirele standards tse di kwa tlase tse di ka fitlhelelwang ke mongwe le mongwe, jaaka ke ne ke bua maloba ka Education ka maswabi, ka most of our private tertiary institutions.

Fa gongwe o fitlhela courses tse ba di fang, ba tlaabo ba r,e Botswana Qualifications Authority (BQA) accredited, but the moment you step out of the border ya Botswana o ya Zeerust mo South Africa, university e e mo Zeerust kana North West e tlaabo e sa amogele that quality.
E tsaya gore quality ya lona e kwa tlase, ga se e e ka lekalekanang kana ya nna transferred ya isiwa kwa sekoleng seo fa e le gore ngwana is transferred.

Golo mo go botlhokwa ka tsela e e ntseng jaana.

Go botlhokwa ka gore it assures the consumer, moji-moreki, gore selo se fa se na le mark wa quality ya mofuta o, go raya gore se tlhotlhilwe, se dirilwe ka ditsamaiso tse di tlhotlhilweng mo lebakeng le le leele.
Motho a tshwana le Minister jaana, ka dinako tsotlhe o na le inspections tsa go bona gore a quality eo e salwa morago.

Ke sone se e tlaa reng motho le fa a tswa kwa a bona borotho bo kwadilwe CE mark kana eng, a bo a reka ka tshosologo.

A itse gore go raya gore go setswe quality e e rileng morago.

Fa e le gore ga bo na dilo tseo, o tlaabo a nna sebete se molangwana.

Gongwe e le motswakwa a sa itse gore o tsamaya jang mo lefatsheng la Botswana, borotho jo bo monate bo bonwa kae.
O tlaabo a lebelela dilo tse.

The mark of quality tse di ka mmotshang gore jo bo botoka ke jo.

Ke swabisa ke gore mo policy e, go a buiwa gore the national accreditation body ga e yo.

Therefore, e tlaa tla e bopiwa le yone.

Go raya gore e tshwanetse e 34 bopiwe.

Ke yone e ke buang ka yone gore fa go sena this accreditation body, inspection, monitoring and evaluation tota e tlaabo e le matsapa fela.

E tlaabo e le puo fela ya molomo e e ka se keng e re thuse sepe re le ba botsogo.
Fa re le mo kgannyeng ya quality, mo botsogong fa ke wela, ke faphiwa tsebe ke gore ke setse ke bone a Bill ya Health Quality e e more elaborative than this policy that we are looking.

Therefore, fa gongwe o kgona go bona gore quality e tlaa nna o kare puo fela.

Ke sa reye gore ke ntsha ope ka loso legolo.


Go na le taglines tse di reng, “pathology you should trust.” I know Diagnofirm, which is a very good company e e tswang kgakala le pathology but they use that phrase to say, “pathology you can trust.” That is not a quality control issue Mr Speaker.

Quality control issue e tswa mo goreng re na le ditsamaiso dife, tse di tsamaelanang jang.

Tse di ka supang gore thulaganyo e fa ke e dira jaana, e tlaa ntsha maduo a a ntseng jaana ka dinako tsotlhe.
Ke yone quality control eo.

Fa gongwe fa re dirisa these phrases, di ka tsietsa Motswana a tsaya gore golo moo go raya gore go siame kante ga se gore go siame.

Ga ke reye gore Diagnofirm e ntse jalo.

I am just giving an example.

Ke yone quality ya fa o bua ka the Quality Policy that Honourable Minister submitted.

I support it Mr Speaker.


Ke a e support gore a e tlhabolole gore mo dingwageng tse di tlang re fete re bone e le Bill jaanong e le sector- specific re tle re bone gore fa gotwe quality kwa civil engineering, electrical le kwa kae go tewa jang.

Go tewa gotwe o sale morago tsamaiso efe gore o tle o fitlhelele (achieve) results dife ka dinako tsotlhe gore bajibareki le bone ba tle ba kgone go kgotsofala gore selo seo ke selo sa quality.

Kwa bofelong Mr Speaker, quality e itsiwe bobe ke mojimoreki.
Fa quality ya gago e le kwa tlase bajibareki ba a tsamaya, ba tlhokomologa quality ya gago.

So, go botlhokwa gore ka dinako tsotlhe fa o le mogwebi, you must maintain a certain quality e re tlaa nnang re e latela ka gore tota fa re dira jalo, re latela quality.

Ke sone se o bonang batho ba ya kwa bo Nandos and order periperi.

O tla a itse gore fa a rekile jaana o ya go ja eng and fa a sa je gone moo, ke sone se o bonang o tlaabo o latlhegelwa (lose) ke customer.
Ka mafoko a le kalo, ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Thank you.

MINISTER ASSISTANT LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MS MONNAKGOTLA): Thank you Mr Speaker and good afternoon.

Mma ke go leboge tshokologong e go OF Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) bo o mphile tshono ya gore le nna ka akgele mo National Quality Policy e Motlotlegi Mmusi a re e beileng pele.
Ke a e amogela mme e bile ke e sala morago ka gore quality standard ke selo se se botlhokwa mo papading le madirelo.

Ke selo se se dirang gore mogwebi a nne le tlhwatlhwa e e rileng.

Fa re amogela policy e Mr Speaker, re e amogela ka matsogo a mabedi ka gore e tlile go sireletsa, bogolo jang botsogo jwa setšhaba e bile e ya go baya bagwebi ba Batswana mo tshiamelong ka gore ba ya go bereka thata.

Ba ya go kgona to compete le bagwebi ba mafatshe a mangwe.
Ke sone se o bonang ke re ke e ema nokeng e bile ke e sala morago fela thata.

Fa ke lebelela thata mohama wa manufacturing, ke mohama o lefatshe la Botswana le ka tsenyang madi ka one e bile o ka dira ditiro tse dintsi Mr Speaker.

Re santse re tsaya dithoto kwa ntle kwa bo China.

Re ka di itirela ka quality e e riling, bogolo jang fa ke lebelela bo leather sofas.

Re na le matlalo.

So, re ka dira quality e e botoka.

Ke sone se o bonang ke sala policy e morago.


Fa re lebelela mohama o wa manufacturing, ke mohama o e leng gore thatathata tota deals le diatla mme e bile o ntsha dithoto le go dira boleng jo bo rileng.

Fa re lebelela dilo tse e bile go tla policy e e ntseng jaana, e ya go dira gore re lebelele mehama e mengwe; ke gore re lebelele dilo tse dintsi.

Jaanong o bula bagwebi matlho ka gore fa o bua ka standard, o bua ka quality gore a dire dilo tsa tlhwatlhwa e e rileng.
Bagwebi le bone ba ya go tswelela ka gore at long last, moreki ke ene yo o yang go bona gore lefatshe la rona le gatetse pele mme e bile re ka dira dilo tsa tlhwatlhwa e e kwa godimo.

Ke leboge ba Botswana Bureau of Standards (BOBS) ka gore ba ne ba tla ka dikgang tsa quality standards.

Batho ba BOBS Mr Speaker, ba ne ba tla ka gore go lebelelwe dithoto le ditiro.
Dilo tse di ne tsa isa boleng jwa ditiro kwa godimo tse e neng e le gore BOBS e a di lebelela mme le mo seelong sa rona fela jalo, re ne ra iteka re le Batswana.

Fa o lebelela thatathata quality mo Botswana, bogolo jang tsa botsogo kwa laboratories, o tlaa fitlhela e le gore re tlhokana le didirisiwa tse di rileng tsa boleng jo bo rileng mme dilo tse gantsi re di tsaya kwa ntle gore re tle go tlhatlhoba malwetse kana re tle go dira tse dintsi.
Dilo tse di tlile go re thusa Mr Speaker ka gore di tlile go baya lefatshe la rona mo mmepeng.
Fa ke lebelela policy e fela jaaka motlotlegi yo mongwe a ntse a bua jalo, ke dilo tse e leng gore fa o bua ka quality, bogolo jang nna yo ke tswang kwa Kgalagadi North mme e bile ke na le mafelo a tennyanateng, Mr Speaker, re nwa metsi ale a a dirang meno a rona brown mme dilo tse di tlile go dira gore le quality ya metsi e lebelelwe gore a mme metsi a re a nwang a a siame, bogolo jang kwa Zutshwa le Hunhukwe jaaka re ntse lela.

Jaanong dilo tse di ya go nna sentle.


Ke sone se o bonang ke amogela policy e fela thata.

O tlile ka selo se sentle Tona Mmusi ka gore metsi a re ntseng re a a nwa teng kwa Hunhukwe e ntse e le gore fa gongwe a re dira meno brown.

Batsadi ba rona ba ntse ba ngongorega (complain) ka kidney stones.

Jaanong fa o lebelela… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Correction.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Okay.

MR SPEAKER: Correction; the voice sounds like that of Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Takatokwane; is that right?

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yes.


MR SPEAKER: Please, go ahead Honourable Leuwe.

MR LEUWE: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Ke ne ke re Motlotlegi ga se Mmusi, kana re na le Honourable Mmusi e le sefane.

Jaanong ke Honourable Mmusi Kgafela, gongwe go dirisiwe Kgafela for recording gore go tle go nne sentle.

Jaanong fa gotwe Honourable Mmusi e nna jaaka e kete ke wa Defence.

Ke a leboga.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Assistant Minister, mokaulengwe wa gago ke yoo o a go baakanyetsa.

MS MONNAKGOTLA: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Leuwe.


Ke correction e ntle.

Ke bua ka Motlotlegi Kgafela gore this policy e tla sentle, bogolo jang teng kwa Kgalagadi North.

Metsi a rona a ya go tlhatlhobiwa gore a mme re nwa metsi a a siameng a e leng gore ga a dire meno a rona brown.

Ga se gone fela, this policy Mr Speaker, e ya go dira gore le bone fela jalo Batswana ba tshware ka thata, ba bereke.

Go bereka gone moo, go ya go dira gore itsholelo ya rona e nne botoka.
Fa o dira selo se gotweng quality, o tsenya maatla le nako ya gago so that e bo e le gore o tlisa maduo a mantle ka gore bo a berekelwa.

Bontle ke selo se e leng gore tota fa o bo batla o a se berekela.

Jaanong policy e fa e tla mo go rona e ya go baya bagwebi ba rona le Batswana gore fa re tsena mo ditirong le bogwebing re bo re bereka ka thata gore e re competition fa e tla go tla e bo e le gore jaanong rona re siame.
Gompieno jaana re lebeletse gore re tshwanetse to export gore matshelo a rona a bo a nna botoka, bogolo 35 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) jang rona teng kwa Kgalagadi North re le balemibarui.

Re batla gore jaaka re na le quality beef re rue e re jaanong fa gotwe bo South Africa ba na le dipalo tsa dikgomo di le kana e bo e le gore ba eletsa tsa rona ka gore tsone it is a quality breed.
E bo e le gore jaanong ba tsaya mo go rona jaaka ba tsaya mo go rona jaana ba eletsa dikgomo tsa rona.

Golo mo go tlile go re isa golo gongwe.

Go tlile go tsosolosa itsholelo ya rona.

Ke sone se o bonang ke re policy e ke e ema nokeng mme mma ke re ke a go leboga Mr Speaker.

MR MOABI (TATI WEST): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

Ke go dumedise le batlotlegi mo Ntlong le Batswana ka kakaretso; ke dumedise ba kgaolo ya me.
Mr Speaker, gongwe jaaka ke simolola ke supe fa ke ema nokeng Molao-kakanyetso o o sa tswang go bewa pele.

O tlile ka nako e e siameng; ga re bolo go o emela.

Fa o ka lebelela jaaka mongwe a sa tswa go supa gongwe letsatsi leno e ka bo e tla gongwe e le Bill e se policy.

Fa re ka lebelela nako e Botswana Bureau of Standards (BOBS) e tlhamilweng ka 1995 gongwe ke yone nako e e leng gore policy e e ka bo e tlile.
Fa re ka lebelela lefatshe la rona la Botswana, re leloko la World Trade Organisation (WTO), e re saleng re tsene mo bolokong ka ngwaga wa 1995 ka 31st May, ke nako e e leng gore gongwe policy e nako e e ka bo e tlile.

Fa re ka lebelela Botswana, lefatshe la rona, re leloko gape la International Organization for Standardisation (ISO), ke dingwe tse e leng gore gongwe policy e e ka bo e tlile bogologolo.

Mme re a e amogela ka gore ke e e tlile.


Jaaka mongwe a sa tswa go supa gone fa, jaaka gongwe go tlaa nna le inspectors, le national accreditation board, ke dingwe tse e leng gore go a go nna le ditshono tsa ditiro.

Ke rialo ke re, jaaka gongwe re na le letlhoko la ditiro mo lefatsheng la rona, jaaka e le Molao-kakanyetso o o tlang o le mosha, re solofetse go le go ntsi mo go one, gore re a go bona banana ba kgaolo ya me le bone gongwe ba bona ditshono tsa go hiriwa, tsa go bona ditiro.
Se ke ka go kopang Tona, re re gongwe e re fa o hira jaaka re itse gore o tlaa hira mo Molao-kakanyetso o, a re lebeleleng banana, re se ka ra lebelela thata mo bathong ba gongwe ba neng ba ka tswa ba ne ba bereka ba godile ba dule mo ditirong, re bo re ka ba busetsa gape mo ditirong.

Mr Speaker, tota fa re bua ka National Quality Policy, quality goes hand in hand with inspection and valuation.

Tota kgang e ya quality e ne e ntse e le teng, gongwe e ne e ntse e seyo mo molaong.
Fa o ka lebelela le yone a tender document e tlaa re o e tsaya go na le fa go supang teng gore go na le quality control, o tshwanetse wa supa gore project kana product ya gago e boleng jwa teng ke bo bo ntseng jang.

Ke re ke dilo dingwe tse tota di a go thusang go le go ntsi.

Kana melao e Mr Speaker fa re e dira jaaka re e dira jaana a re e lebeleleng.

A re e direleng Batswana, mme e se ka ya nna golo gongwe, e ka re e sekamela golo go le gongwe fela.
Ke tlaa feta ka sengwe se gongwe batlotlegi ba tlaa dumalanang le nna kana ba tlaa baakanya pele, kana melao e mengwe fa re e dira go na le kgang ya banking sector.

Fa o ka lebelela gompieno jaana diteseletso tse re di ntshang re di fa dibanka le e o e batlang o le kwa kgaolong o batla to run a restaurant, o tlaa utlwa gotwe ga o ka ke wa bula kana wa fiwa teseletso ya to run restaurant o sena mantlwana a boithomelo; toilets or ablution block.
Fa o ka lebelela kwa dibankeng, o kgona go nna mo bankeng for about three or four hours go sena fa e leng gore… ga ke bone mongwe wa lona gone fa a ka supa gore le kwa dibankeng go na le mantlwana a boithomelo.

Ke gone ke ne ke re, a dinako tse dingwe fa re dira melao e e tshwanang le e re e lebelele, re bone gore e nne molao o e leng gore golo gongwe ga e ka ke ya nna molao wa motho a le mongwe fela kana yo e leng gore ga o direle Batswana bangwe sentle.
Gape fa re ka lebelela kgang e e tshwanang le e, ke tseela gore mo gongwe fa o ka lebelela re na le engineers, go na le ka fa di dirwang ka teng.

Mme gape fa re ka lebelela kgang ya quality, ke tseela gore re tshwanetse ra di lebelela thata.
Dinako tse dingwe the way we are accrediting re go fa licence re re o dira product ya boleng jo bo ntseng jaana, ga ke itse Tona gore o a go dira jang go sala morago product e, gore, mme yo o mo fileng teseletso ya gore product ya mofuta o o e dira ka tsela e. O a go dira jang kana o a go e sela morago ka tsela e e ntseng jang, go bona gore mme ga go na sepe that has changed.
Fa o ka lebelela gompieno jaana, fa o ka ela tlhoko, if you grade companies kwa companies, like fa o tsaya company ya grade E e a go batla tse e di batlang, it is graded the way it is supposed to be, mme golo gongwe o tlaa bona gongwe e sena ditsompelo.

Gongwe e ile go hirisa kwa e hirisitseng teng, gongwe kamoso o bo o e fa tiro, o bo o fitlhela e sa dire ka fa e neng e tshwanetse go dira ka teng, ka lebaka la gore ga e na equipment.
Fa o lebelela go ya kamoso, o tlaa fitlhela ene a tshwere setlankana sa E. Ke kgang e le wena Tona o tshwanetseng wa e lebelela, go bona mme gore jaaka gongwe re bua ka quality re a go diragatsa ka tsela e e ntseng jang, gore re re re go bona re go file setlankana sa gore, mme wena o ka ntsha boleng jo bo tshwanang le jone jo, mme re a go dira jang, o a go e sala morago 36 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) ka tsela e e ntseng jang?
Ke tlaa go fa kgang ya dikai tsa brigade, re ne ra bona maloba brigades di dira subjects kana courses tse dingwe that are not accredited.

Mo e leng gore fa o ka fitlhela gompieno kana wa lemoga ngwana a tsena sekole two or three years a dira subject kana course that is not accredited, fa a tswa gone foo o a go batla tiro kae?

Jaaka mongwe o ne a supa gore, e tlaa re o ya kwa o a go batla tiro o bo o fitlhela e le gore course e o neng o e dira gongwe ga e mo seemong sa gore gongwe e ka tsewa tsia.
Ke dingwe tse re tshwanetseng ra di lebelela.

Ke a itse dikole tsa rona ka bontsi jwa teng o fitlhela di le accredited, mme kgapetsakgapetsa re tshwanetse ra di lemoga.

Fa o ka lebelela, ke tlaa go fa sekai, kwa Botho College, BQA, bo Local Enterprise Authority (LEA) they are accredited.
Tona ke dingwe tse e leng gore if you accredited o tshwanetse wa nna le nako e le wena o tlaabong o tsamaya o a go tlhola, o bona gore mme ka fa o ba fileng teseletso ka teng, o ba fileng gore ba ye go dira ka teng, a mme ba santse ba dira jaaka nako e o neng o ba fa diteseletso tse di tshwanang le tsone tseo.
Fa ke wela Tona ka gore nako le yone ke eo, ga ke itse Tona dilo tse dingwe jaaka fa ke lebile gongwe o kile a bua gone fa gore re a go bona leng re le maAfrica… jaaka ke ne ke bua ka WTO, re a go bona leng gongwe re na le African Trade Organisation, kwa re leng maAfrica, dithoto tsa rona re di bona re ka rekisana ka borona?

Mr Speaker, o tlaa dumalana le nna, our Africa, region or continent we are one of the most with everything, with all the natural resources, we are the richest continent in the world.
Mme fa o ka lebelela mo Africa re humile natural resources mme ga di re solegele molemo.

O tlaa fitlhela gompieno jaana re tsaya dilo tsa rona re di isa kwa mafatshefatsheng.

Go tswa kwa jaaka re tsere products tsa rona re di isitse kwa ntle, ba ya go tla kwa e bo e le gore ke bone ba ba tlang ba tla ba re fa quality gore re ka se ra dira mo go tshwanang le gone mo.
Ke dilo dingwe tse re tshwanetseng gore e re fa o leng teng gongwe le ba o dirisanang le bone mo region ya rona kana ke re southern region, wa bona mme gore ga re ka ke ra nna le African Trade Organisation, jaaka gompieno jaana e le ‘International Organisation Standardization,’ ga re ka ke ra nna le African Organisation Standardization.
Ke dikgang tse le wena o tshwanetseng wa di lebelela Tona, re le maAfrica ra bona gore a mme ga se nako ya gore gongwe re tle re ikemele ka bonosi, re bone gore tse re nang le tsone mo Africa a ga re ka ke ra itshetsa ka tsone.

Go nna re ntse dinako tse dingwe re laolelwa tse re nang le tsone ke mafatshefatshe, mme re le Africa re na le dilo tse re ka di itirelang, ra bona gore re ka ithekisetsa ka borona mo region ya rona kana mo Africa ka bogone.
Ka go rialo Tona tota e ne e le go go ema nokeng ka Molao-kakanyetso o o sa tswang go o baya pele e le policy.

Fela ke re, golo gongwe jaaka e diegile go tla, ke wela ke re a re re gongwe mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo re bone jaanong e tla e le Bill, e sa tle ka fa e ntseng ka teng, ka gore fa e tla e ntse jaana e le policy, o tlaa fitlhela dinako tse dingwe mo gongwe go tsamaya go salela morago, ka gore fa e ka bo e le molao re ne re itse gore ga go sepe se se ka salelang kwa morago.
Sengwe le sengwe se a go dira jaaka re akanya kana re batla, mme policy dilo dingwe e tsamaya e di tlogela morago.

Ka go rialo Mr Speaker, e ne e le go ema nokeng mokaulengwe jaaka a ne a tla ka Molao-kakanyetso.

Ke a leboga Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister Kgafela, please reply to the debate.

You have a minute to lay your foundation.

MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND INDUSTRY leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente.
(MR KGAFELA): Ke a HONOURABLE MEMBER: Sorry, through you Mr Speaker, e le gore nako ya teng e tšhaile, re tsholeditse?

MR SPEAKER: oh!

ke gone o tsholetsang ke sena go bitsa Tona, ga gore sepe ke tlaa go nta.

Honourable Minister my apologies, Honourable Kekgonegile, ikwadise fela mokaulengwe wa me.

MR KEKGONEGILE (MAUN EAST): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker, ke lebogela sebaka.

Kana fa o leba Molao- kakanyetso o o bua ka quality, quality e raya dilo tse di farologaneng di le di ntsinyana across sectors.
MR SPEAKER: Order!

Order!

Ke ne ke batla gore o ikwadise Motlotlegi Mopalamente wa Maun Botlhaba, e tlaa re kamoso ke tlaa go letla gore jaanong o begele bakaulengwe ba gago kgang ka bophara.

As it is now six o’clock, I shall now call upon the Honourable Leader of the House to move a Motion of Adjournment.

MOTION ADJOURNMENT LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Ke a leboga.

Nte ke kope batlotlegi ba dumalane le kopo ya gago gore gongwe re eme gone fa.

Ke a kopa Mr Speaker, I move so.


Question put and agreed to.
The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 6:00 p.m. until Tuesday 5th April, 2022 at 11:00 a.m. 37 Hansard No 205Monday 4th April, 2022ADOPTION OF THE NATIONAL QUALITY POLICY (NQP) FOR BOTSWANA, 2021Motion (Resumed Debate) HANSARD RECORDERS Mr T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B.
B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae 38 Hansard No 205