Source document: https://docs-lawep.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/1697720118715.pdf (Canada)
78 COMMONS DEBATES.

FEBRUARY 2a, that in addition of thAt in currency wsa worth only 40 ceots animaleaad their producta, the produceorCl\uada, '3,861,906; fisheries.

the product orellnada, '1,454.9111; being a total or tl0,556,2J2 per annum, or *31,668,69;) rOt· the three year.i.

Add to tbia the Cact inctea:18 of thirty~ne milliooa odd during the IhNe yeara I bl\ve " named our lomber trade with the UniLuoJ StatAllll gf'6lltly renved, revived.
to eueh ao es.UlDt that our manufacturers last year were receiving Cor their lumbor a higher price in gold thaD they received during the inflated period oC the Civil War, 00 tho dollar; whon you add an these facta togetber you are able toacoount for the i mprovemeot in the tim6/!

quite clearly and quite lIatiafactorily, witbout any reference wbatever tI.> the Nalional Policy, or to any other fiacal policy of thi3 or or any other Gd"vernmeot.

My hon.
My hon.

friend from Centre Welliugton (Mr. Orton), in the COUl'8e of hie remarlm, in· formed 'he IfooBe that the National Policy bad e.t.imulated the upon of food.

We went told, wben the policy was inlrodnoed that it would cl"6IIte a home market for our food; wo heard nothiug about tbe policy eumulating the uport of food.

We" did bear tbat manufactorea would epriog up on all banda, that our collliu'ming population would belargely ioereued.
that a homo market would be Cl.IrDiahed for the agricultu....1 products o( the Dominion, that".

would be no longer under lb.

noceaeity of export.

iIIg food; y.t bon.

gentlemen to-day tell oe that a diametri cally oppoeite l'OIult h.. oocl1lTed, namely Lbe etimulation or the ezport in tho food products oC Cauada.

How wit abont this home market ?

Under what conditions OlIn a home market be croated in a couotry?
Wae it rea eonable to 8uppoee that when promiaes were made that the in tbe creation of a bomo National Polioy would r&Hllt IUlIol'lU:lt for tbe agricultural aurplu of CauaUa, England b.a trade of bll~belll to Canada, and, onder the operation of Free Trado, the CanndiKo market WlU!I ootlt>f than the American 18 this the C&.18 to-day?

Are oatll.to-day worib mnrbt.

Il cents more and whest l4 cents more in Toronto than In ChicAgO?

They are nOt..
They are nOt..

Since our presen~polioy b&8 been fairly in operatioD, there bu not been a day when Jtrain waa not worth more in the American than in the lee a amile ~preadiD&, o~er the Canadian mlll·ket.

oouolenKoce of my bon.

If Lbo hOD.

genLloman would follow- friend for Niagara.

I .Becau~e we do DOt get protection.

Mr. PLUMB.

Mr. CHARLTON.

Whoat ill worth mor~ in Toledo.

Detroit, OSWl'go and Bulfaln tban in Toronto.


There ill not a single grain 00 the lilt that ill not higber in tbe American market than in tbe correeponding Canadian market.

Such W88 not the ease in 1818, yet we are told that the opel-ation It.

ie an of the preMnt dntiee ia benefioial inault to the farmer to try aad palm olJ 8uch nOnMnlle npon him, wbich he d08l!J not believe.

to the fllrmer.

llr.

CAMERON (Buron) moved the adjournment oC the debate.

Motion agreed adjourned.


to; and (at 6 o'c1ocll, p.m.,) the Honle HOUSE OF COMMONS, }~aJJ)AY, 24tb February, 1082. "

" PtlATJ:lL8.

t'lfenty yeal"i, the firat tlme:- The Sl'J:Aua took tbe Chair at Three o'clock.

Bir:' (No.

41) to IncoI'potato the TecumltOt.h luaorance Bill (No.

39) to iooorporat4 tho Rainy River Improvement Bill (~o.

40) reepectiog the Dondee Land and Inveetmeut of t.util.

produot.

manufactured 66 per cent.

were exported.


Sbe 11 DOt prepared to band 0"" the oo:J,trol of her own BILI.B INTRODUCED.

The Iollowiug Billa ".re Beven.lly iDt.rod.uoed and read Bill (No.

42) to incorporate the Richelieu Bridge Com.

BfJi (No.

43) to i'ncorporale tbe &\llt Ste Marie Bridge a home Dlarket; and wby 1 Beeawlc of every '100 worthI mark."

but ehe euppli.

her own wanta nDder the opera- QOD olll'l'M Trade, aDd UpoN more than one-half oC her In coDHqnonoo oC beiog ~e workebop of nwnuactDr-.
the world, ehe h.. ~ homemari:o~and,.be8idea, a.

~arketfor Company.-(Mr.

Kilvert.)

th.

mrpl'lll pl"OductlOU.

otothor eouutriOl5.

Bat It Ie 116810l1fJ to aap~ tb~t Canada eart MOure a hom~ marlr.ot eurplue Com ny, Ilmited.-(H.r.

Gaalt.)

~y e~pplrlDg tta ~wn wanta.

A country &Itnlltcoi:l.e Canmb 111, With g~t agrIcultural r08Ou~.

can nevet· ~llol'l..1 a bume Company o( CauaUL-(MI".

MeLtlnnan.)

market tor ~ts own product.

by al~"'ply att.emptlDg to manu· facture for It.

own wants.
own wants.

Tbe United Statee have been paDY -(Mr Baker) endea~oring to 8ecu~ thie homo mark~t for and With what ruuIt-.

'~r .endeav~)tJng for twenty years Company.-(Mr.

Williams.)

to foeter their man~faotunD,lt)!1dll&tneoto auch an ezlent .a Bill (No.

f.i.)

to amend theAet incorporatin the Na_pier to ~reate a cooenmtng pop,;,latlon that would oonel.lme all ville Junct.iOD Railway aud Quarry Company~(M:r.Cour tbelr fooJ, they ezported, In the year 1880, food enongb fur eol.)
26,oo:,~ people,.n~~anadaespor:tedenougb f~r 1,000,000.\ Bill (No.

45) to reduce the eapitalatock oC the Ontario The o. me.mber Cor .Centro Wellington alltO Informed ~ Bank and to change the Domiual value thereof, and for tha~ the agneuhural Int.ereelfJ bad been .beuefitted.

by tb,a other pUrp0808.-~!b.Kirkpatridr.)

policy.

!Darket wblch .w.. l?

alJeorb all ~ur produ.ctiollll1 .By the Company ofCanadL-(lCr.

MeCartb .J dnty llpoo gralD wbleb wu to ralBe lbe price or grau!.
that mucb higher f Will aoy boo.

gentleman io thia Bonae iufOrm me that the opention of the National Policy, in 110 far .. grain duti.

are ooocomed, hu conferred any benefit I would like to hear lOme individual make 00 the farmer1 that UMrtiOOI (n 1878, bnd anum I eay no, it h.. not.
bor of yea'" precediog, Canada Wall pre8umably a better market for grain than tho United Stat6ll, and a great out cry was raised hero agaioet the importatiou of American 10 1878, oatil were worth 10 eenta !Lod whoat 14 graiu.

oen'" more in Toronto than in Chicago.

"tIA clear thon tbat,under the operation of Free Trade, we bad a better markotJor ~raiu than tho United Slaleej and at the "aame time the United Statee had, fClr leveolleen yeal'll.

been liviug tbey .. protective du,ty on grain.


Although lltlder ball a ~teotivo Tari4 the, wert thippilll million.

Sir LEONARD TILLEY.

Mr. Speaker, in moving that you leave tbe Cbair,.ad tbat the Hoaee roeolve il8elf into Committee of Waye and HAlane, I deoire to meke the usual financial etalement.
1 may be permitted, Sir, to say that, at no period in tho hillt0'7 ofCan8~ hae a Government met Parliament with tbe financial condition of the country in the po6ition it is to-day j at no period in the hi..tory of Canada baa it.
credit 8tood eo high 88 it 8talnda1tl::Hiay; at no period in tbo history of Canada, pouihly, WM the COllotry, geocr ally speaking, 8ll pl'Ollpe.rClue ae or more proeperollll than it ie to-d.y; and I prnpoe&, Sir, in the etatementa tbat I am about to eubmit to tbe Houae, to eata\Jliah that that pl"08 petitr it in a great meMore dependent upon the policr of Bill (No.

46) to iDcorporate tbe EdillOD Electl'ic Light In.

wbat "ay1 By the creation of th1!l home y TaR BUDGET.

It , JIr.CO'W'.... 1882.


COMMONS DEBATES.

79 " ill the that lI,at hl'at', thel'e cuulJ askod 1l1l\mOOr dar the Y0:11' Il'l.1 up, as I WU8 not regret, Sir, fiiJ.

dcccs80r IIml Norfolk, !he policy of :Int.icipation of the bon membel' thnt 1 will be lIbll;l tbe bon.

momber 1'.I',nnd·hyo-wh.-m the in the House eitber on anJ 1 U,Ia~,743 10 the TI'easllrr, :111 tbe Govemm{'nt, aud Ihe ctfect not help to) what he could coli oct I lmow, Sil', that, I:wnOllnco lo tho Hou~o.

Bul what I IllfltoJ W3S the fact.


tho producing P')Wl)1' of tho 'l'tll'ilf,:l.'l llon.

goutlomO;ln opposite :llIy calculutoo ill Iltuteffit:nt, Sir, he was hon, followed yoster.

1814, aud the pl'opo:litinn in 1819, thll G-OV<lrnmllM.

the hon, member timo tbe spoocbo8 de ivoreJ by estimatoo, ~1\l'plu8 of i):!,UOO,llOO, Some lI...n. MEMBERS.

Heill, herll.

Sil' I,EONARD T1LLEY.

for NOI'foll< on I fOl' Centre HUI'on 83,000,000 for the (;overnmont adopted by Pnrlinmo.:nt.
in the l;~timation of J;omo of my JI'iend8 opposito, 1 h:l\'o I:,hOWoi undel't:J.keo a hOl'culoan t:l:;k. .

to hC:lr fol' South Bl'ant thut on tho preaent nccllsion, a di8Cu~ tho AdJI'o~ in nn>jw~I' to thtl Speech frmll It fill' n~ I'CVClIlIQ i>l OOlloOl"ne.l, wn~ such a~ to ginl UIl, if W<lllati the 871)0,000 collocted in tho ,veil I' pt'ovious fOl' j!

'OlKl'l con"lIlll00 in tbo tilllowing yeal', and 8500,000 or $600,000 of Excitlo the !il'UV'''"'l In \'iow of tho !ll'cdicti\)n'lof hon.
gentlemen chouge of'fal'jl}" on gO(kb c'Ill"u:nc,1 in tllo year fullowinK, hoar in 1879, wilh I'eferenee to this policy_when thol'e would not hnve l)(l,m ;1 ddi('1t of nl:)re than 8:NIl,OOlJ, oppc;site I am now uble to >lubmit, aftel' fln expel'jenco of less than sbowing' bow aceuI'atcly all:!

ho'\' nilly tlte estimal('.~ uf the to con· Goverumont Wcl'O borne onL But, tl).
(hy, we 8taHII hel'e not tbree ymll'8, its resultll-[ tl'Ust vince them even, that thig policy hilS haJ much to do· with witb allY doubt as 10 itd ro\'onue·producing powel', but with in thig cuuntl'Y, eviJl;lnce of the la~t rear befme \l8, \'I'ith the Pnblic Accounts bringing :lbout the pl'csent state of uffhil'll I tho House, sho\ving ~tlllom.mt8 on tho '£al.lo of Tue>J<!ny 01' )'e!lterduy uftlll'nooll (cil'cum"tancOtl Ilreventing not only no deficit of C\'cn S~1I0,000, but, insteoo of an is.a sUI'plu~ of my being I'r080nt) the hon.
members the l'esult of Its operatIOns.

recollllct, fOl' South MI', Spenkol', the hon len.del' of the Oppositioll, in diacllllaing IUilt yeM, Brant tho Thl'Ono ([ aion of l'OgI'et ho is Ihlt pl'e~ellt, llnd weal!
regret thocireuffi>$tuncC8 of the TBl'ilf, in ndvance or Ihe f1tatement of tbe Budget' which render hill almenee nectlssal'y), saiJ, that he couht not S~edl, :llld 1 called tbe ~on, gentleman'8 attontiorJ, on thut Iu1Jder~tand why it wa.~ ~h:lt thoil GovllrnmAnt had askud tb,e occl\!Iion, to the fact that It wni not usual to pur·e.ue iluch a I peoplo to beal' Ihe aJJILwllul uUI-Jeu of the ~urpluil, unle~" It lold me we had Deen IiO long wai" aitor Ihe mnnner of the man who W8i found carrying: a {'oulose, in bringing down the Budget, sill: weck~ having eJap8eJ, he henvy I'ail up a hill, alIJ, \vbtln Mked why he was doing it, could wail DO longer; yot,on the prellentoccllSion, though IJO~ 8aiJ it WIlS lor tho ple38ul'e he would enjoy in layiug it 8 furtnigl,t had llIap8cd since the opening of Parliament, the down.
Now, Sil', ill this connection permit me 10 I,h'aw a hon, momool' Wll8 again to the fwnt anticipatiug", as on n contra8t between the effect that was produced by tbe increallO of83,OOO,000 tuxation imposed by my pl'edeeea~r,in formel' oct'asion, tbe disclll!sion that usunlly takeil Jllltee nflel' In 1874, lOy hon, pl'e· the financial by die addition ill from the thon existing 'fal'ilf, policy of \'£1, thinl(inJ.

( tbe purpo!le of carrying on the public that I<'"l m·wh.
w'(ll'k~, l''''1lplt:ting the I'llcilio R'Ii!Wll,Y, and olllel' ertg:lJl:o· rna.

", hopod lor by hon, KllntleUlcll OppOtliUl, whcn tho l'l'c>jcnt I' IIltllll<l which tbe UfI\'CI'nlll{'llt Willi bouod to can}' out.
OI'pt"fsi!i'Jll tlhllll change placetl with uti-finJ 80lDe rivalll fOl' What Wlill tbe rll"ull Ul'..hl In tho yClll' following' a respon8e was given in the sh;J,pe of an iDcl'ease the p',~ition he fOl'mel'1y occupied; but for South Bmnt and Norfolk-provided they adopt our I of something like 12,000,ijOO paid into the Treasury; but, policy which, fiS I bave atated on pt'eviouiJ occa8ioDs, ia the Ifrom 18'15 down to 18'19, received only COlll~e for them to pUl'llUa in order to get on thid side from tbe Tal'iff then es:isting was but 812,500 OUO per year, of tbe Ilouse-will buve thell.th'nntngo ofthe bon, member for Had there hoon no change in tbe Tal'iff in 1879, the receipts to th~ emphutic, ~en~I'e .Huron, bcca,llso they can point from CustomiJ would hllve boon but a little ovel' 812,000,000, tboy deh~el'ed s~me Impre8lliVe and &dmll'able ,8p~6Chea thl'OO 01' fOUl' ycarll 8"0 '" favOl' of a pl'otet'tlve pohcy.
Sir, tho p08ition of the G-ovet'nmllllt, when they illll'uuucod ..... hat is cllllll'J thi.\ N,atl'Jllal the countl'y, becaUHl they baJ II.

difficult qlleiltlOn to delll With, was noee.

;:.8arily a great daal 01' ill)6culation with l'e8pect to You may impose a burdtln upon a man, but unle'18 you gi\'e the effcct of the adoption of tbat policy evon in the minJs him food and flu8tenance he will be unable to carry that bur· The hOll.
geotlemllo opposite (Sil' Richard J, Cart ?fsome ofit.i friends and advOOllte:l, There \l'a1l a qllsstion den, 10 their minds, lllI woll as in tho mind.i of hon, gentlemen wdght) imposed burdolls Oil tbe people, but gave thorn no Opposite, whether, if it pl'OVed to be a protective policy, food to ilupply Ihem witb 8trength to eany them, What time?
With tbe yt'e wo1l1d obtain sufficient revenue; It prov~d to be a rovonue Tariff', whethol' it would give the pric08 of all tho manu/nctuI'ell alld produclll of the United protectIOn to the industries of the COUlltl'y which was de- dtl\tee at thnt time exceedingly low, owing to the condition mantled by the people, II" ovid{'flcod by the eloctions of of that collntl'y then, the Tal'ill' that be tlUbmittcd was food 1878;, and necC!lilarily we, who had given caroful coo8i, and enCOIH'ag('ment fol' tbe foreignel', but botb were denied to our own people, When our people n~ked the hon, gelJ de.I'atlOo to this mattei', hnd to speculate to a cel,tnin extent With l'6:Ipect tie man for bl'end, he gave them ailtonei and the I'etlult W8tl to it,g effcct, But, Sir, in 1880, the opinions that we h~ entel'mined ill 1819 were being confil'med by tbat, all ovor this couotry, fnctol'ias wOI'e eitber closed or tbe expenenceof the nine mooth~, In 1881, they were still working at half time, stronger, becau8e eviden:le had nccumulateJ to show that OUI' !fr.
MACKENZiE, No; you must prove tbat too.

position was the COI'roct one; anJ, to,day, we 8tand in nn Sir Lr.ON ARI) TiLLEY, Wcll, 1 oun prOve that alilO' Impregnable poaition with 1'O,;poCt to tbe l'ellults·of tbe Tariff, both lor PI'Ot~clion and revenue purpose!
!, I recollect \'el'y because I saw :lome of thorn clO8OJ myself, and hoo, gentle' !,ell la8t tiesslOD, whon I made my financial statement, that mell 0ppollite a.iked me within a yeal' aftel' wby we had It shuwocl re·opened them, Mun w61;e withnut employment, explamed t,hat, ~rn:lol' tbo operation of the Turitl: it woulJ knocking lit the door8 of Parlinmont, knocking lit tbe door8 tha !iece&- of the J)op;u'lment of Public \Vol'I[~, n:'lking fOl' employ ha:e provldoo Jllt't ahout I.IlyeJ:pendltUl'c ha~ we not 10 the yel\r PlOUv\OUS I'ecelvcd l\.
ment, nnd none could be got, It conkl not be oxpected, large revenue ()1I :~rtlcles cousumoo in tho yenl' fQllowing, hOll, undel' thGie circum.iumcell, that mCll could rospoud to the .gentlemen 0PPOill~ laughoJ at thll.t ideu, Jeclal'ing thnt the I'o!
}uirements of the hon, gentleman'" 'rllritf; fOI' if tbey had plea would oot aVllll,unu tbnt tbe Govcl'nmClnt had a deficit to not tbo means they could not buy eitber the PI'OdllCt8 of Poli~y, wall a d.ifficult OIlC, Ires, but will pl'oN it tiS I pl'OCCoJ, Sil'!

wh~t caused thitl?

Sit' LBON ARD TILLEY, Well, I will not lIirnply say 'fhere It was call8eJ by the geneml depre8ll10n 1Il the contl'al'y, Wl\.8 the condition of OUI' people at Sir RWHAUDJ, CARTWlUGllT.
N (In appul'cllt deficit of 81,500,000, ~uffieient 10 me,et the average amount the bOD.

members llnd when I 1I0t to give him, Pal'linment !

'eVellue?

nl'l'ivl}~ if, 011 thnt J: 0, ilie 80' COMMONS DEBATES; ~'EBRUARY 24, a t18 the the thal th.y psi indielltell very apt tbe out&et the nlp.ltllll lind hA",injl another period i caeb eal.. Tbe to coo- dition of prompt eetimat'ed "'tlry c1urly that capacity of onr people present Government with and oC to their particular the es:peOditnre, are againet period.
the.v ronlrihll!.eol m....re' JlroPcnt al:ll.

of the (IOunlry Clomnot be Canada or the importa from other conntrill8.

The reeultwas cireum&tao~ to whio~ I refer.

Sir, it ,ill c~tomary, I find, that.

instead of obt.iniot{ an incr68e6 to the revenue, the with our friend.

Oppoelte, when addreB8IDg el~ber their own ",venue fell to what it was in HI?

before the incrsllllM were oonlltituouUl or other cooatitnenciee in different pam of the made, and the people refuBoo to ~r.
the burden that waa Dominion of Canada, to refer to the present atate of thingt impoMld opon them.

Bow was It In 18'191 We &8ked as alone the reeult of larft6 exporta during the last two Or to give 01 such cbnngell in the Tariff' &8 would three 18&1'8, and if lam flght11 informAd, tDe hon.

member parliament not only protect the indu..trie!l of the country, but give us for South Brant (Mr. Patel"8Oo) stated that the pre86nt eon.
I Iltated dition of alfairt in Canada WAll not the r8lIult of the National an increased revenoe.

Was there a rMpon86?

at the I"fllInlt of large uporta and a large I"8f'ponse was the.

ll.mpl.

provid- Policy, bot it WAll the year 18'19 receipt of gold eomiog into the country.

Well, Sir, I fiOd.

ed th.

money had been paid in for that th.t bon.

gentleman .nd other hon.

tnembe~ when th.t belonged to tbat year.


And in the year that follow8'J, aurplua they are apeaking of the oondition of the collntry, or when l'08ponaef They gave what was the late Govero· of follr million doll art and npward&, becao86 we foood they are apeaking oC the pMitioo of reCer.

employment for the people; beriall&e, by obtaining Cor them ment to aeleet employment and higher wagee, they were able to huy more ence ooe }len who owned bank atock hili greater one tban formerly.
value in it than in 1878-'19 i men who had tenement!l particular year, Cor inetanCl8, during the adminiatration of uooocnpied in 18'18-'19, bad tensnll for lbeir bouses, and the the bon.

genlleman oppoeit.e agaioat a partioular year of additional revenue tbqs received on all hede eoabled them the Pre880t Adminiatr'atiOD.

So, in the cue to which I am to bny more than io previollll yeare.

Mon who were for- oow referring, tbe hon.


member reten to the erportl during merly working at balf time and 00 low Wl\Jte8 received the put year, 1881, aDd be aa,.. that the preseot condition higher wagM and were workinA' nve,..time.

Farmers wbo of the country 11 to be attributed to that large esport.

had low prieM and found Llal68 dilRoult rerei;red bigb p.riCEllJ Would it not be w.lI, Hr.

Speak.r, for bon.
Speak.r, for bon.

g.ntlemen oppc> and result waa that, while eite, when tbey are making a compari80n between the con· the two Goverom.nts, aod' we tbe oountry under tbey abould 86leel the that tribute, doring tbelt'Sr, 11'1.000,000 for CwItoma to the embracing ditrel1lnt period&, Treuw:y, in, voluntarily-because it waa to whole period; tOr inatance, that they aboald aeleot tJ:ae five a A'J'8&t ext60t volnntarily-lle,5UO.OOO.

T say vollln- years during wbicb our hoa.

friends.
friends.

were in power and the tarily, because, of the increa&6lS of l88t yea.r over the two or tbree yeart during wblch the preeent Gov.rnm.nt in lQ][uries, fluch at bave been io power, rat6er than lMllect one particular year.

previolls year, 17'le,OOO waa paii:l lind articles of that kind.

IIt migb' DOt be oonv.ni.ot for the boo.

member to do 80 i • illM, apiri~, !


!i1ka and Mtinfl, the people had the I but 1 h.ve had made lip a etatement to ebow that the 'That lhe result ot mean", io tbat way tblln belore.

io the finer descl"iption of woolleo gOOds, for instanc6t whicb are not manu(&fttnred in CaDada, they contributed 1400,000 more to tbe Trwury e&r.

rMd th.m, and then In the .I-ticle of cottooe, whicb pay 20 per tban lut yeu.

cent., tbey contributed 1:-100,000 more than in the year I Will challenge tbe hoo.
member to abow that the' .... DO' before.

All thie sbowlan increased purebasinK power on tbe correat.

In 1874, the e.porta of Canadian prodootl, Ineluding part of the people.

We nnder.eetimated tbeir improved con· -Canadian manufl\ctDI'OI'I, were 173,9~6,748; iD 18'16, ther dition when we eetimated tbot they woold onl)' contribute were 167,.~0,893; in 18'16,169,861,Si9; in 181'1,Ill6,86f;· 11'1,000,000 i tbey contributed 118.fiOO,OnO.
One important &80; in 1878, 166,740,134; or an average for the five yeaN 10 1879, they were 1611,089,678 i in 1880, feature in tbi!l cnnHectinn is.

.re:lr, and 170,096,1111 ; io 18:H, 180,921,379; makiog anavel'age,for tbe Cor Public Work8 18.150,000 redeemed abc>at 12.00U,000 ezilltinK liabilitiCfl, beario,ll; 6 per thl"e6 years, of 17U,369,049, an inCfe8lle per aDOOID of cent., lb.

surplus of over 14.000,000, witb the umODnt (If Il,79.!,I48.

Now, Sir, tb.

pl·esent etate of afl'&l.n it not!


de~its in the lIavinga banka of the Domini.op, 14,:50,000 depundent· uP;On .the uport8 alone of ~.e p~uOti of' enabled U8 to meettbeae payments charA:eable to capital, and Canada-coOllidenng tbe average popnlation dUlIl« tha1; still oar interellt account was lasll by 190,000 thaD tbe year period, aod th.

average popalatlon durin« the pili three before.


But [ qualify tbat in thill way: we paid 190,000 yea~he will find tliat the tben etate Of the coantry ' .

Ie.

interelt tban tbe year proviOU8; bat, if we take tbe compared witb the pre&ent, or the proeenf, oonditloa ot"itIle etatement ot the inter8llt that W88 dne for tb.

ytlar.

aDd oountry .. compAred with It.. oonditioil thea, i, DOt,:uae conn' it .. all paid-thougb.

it waa not· all.

paid within enti!

"6ly, ae be claiIQ8 it ill?


that caD...ar ~ eln....""qoite I call hIS atteDtiOD to the year-th.re would be atlll 126,000 less lntereet tban outetd.

in the .year previou8, notwithetanding the !ocreaae of tbe that, beoaUM it importance .to.

Ihow· that dnri.

been the five years that our friend.

oppo.iti ~ in 'powe", expendltur.

on debt esporta; hein«- 1fI'OcJ.m.

d Caoada, 8l,id that people, tbat it ought not to bave been Impoeed i bnt gentle-- WII bnt 11,'10tl.0'l~ a rou 1-,· Wit!
A l'maUer pOpula.

m.n wbo hold tbat view, and say tbat it the preeent a anrplne ofthrre or four million dollRrs, hAve, at tbe ~ame Admioiatration have been i_ power.

Jloreoyer, boo.

gen. lIemen very often tak.

up the n:plDd.itlll9 ot 1S77-'8, time, alated tbll.t tb.

United Stalee are paying oil' th.ir debt the rate of 1100,000,000 per year and oommund by the late Governmen, and the,.

OOrDplU'e it with lb.


at them for IlO doing; and U88rt that, unl6M we look carefully upenditure of I._t yearl aDd lb.D poilU to it .. aDe...idenoe after oar al'Cairt-, we will be tlubjocted to burdens whicb, oftb.

eztr&vagaooe of till, eslrayagmt Govenm,nt.

Sir epeedily be I am prepared to ebow, ftoom tbe dat&1 ha....

betorem., that' in view of the fact if the bon.

gentlemen oppoaite bad colleeted from Cuto.u: wjped oat, aod they will bav.

win placo t1A at tbem.


£zci8e ~nd Stamp Duty, mouzeooagh toP'Y tbeir.speodi Well, Sir, I cannot qnite eee, if it ie d68irabl., in th.

0pioion I ture, and if tbe preeent dminl,tragoa bad oolleoted oftb0A6 b<entlem.n, that th.re ebould be a snrplue In the Idmp1y 1OO0ey eoou,h to pay theirs, that npon the .....rar.

United Statee for lb.


purpoee of payin,lC orr their d.bt, thatIpopulation of the tive yean they w.re In power, foOd t e It thie eurplul W&8 an uonee68~ary bnrden on the tb, valne of -the it II objectionabl(oD the part or the llominion of Cauda three yean we bave heeD in oSee, the fignnie abow that 23 to ba.... a tnlrpilltl, 8lIpeeially when it il collected nnder tit.

oeutI per head I.wonld have been oolleoted from thepeopk ran.

S~r LEONARD TILLEY.

lurguly.increlUted.


uportll of tbe proouctll oC t:an~ the National Polter.

ie of though we olCpended of 16R.076,90t.

110 great disadvantage with littl.

or no tantion, ie unwi~ to have tion, tban l~ wus durm.,; .Mr PATEBSON (8 (be t"bree yell", account.

Now, th.ir d.bt will during .that ear, I will t) H that tbat bas .

.

h *.

I:fir ~.UD TrLLn.

1882.

COMM.ONS DEBATES.

81 all our them.

incrOllsed to come.


resulli--an taxation for reduotion of time Toe nverngo nmouflt of this period being 4,050,674, the surplus for in the intel'es~ during the tlVO years 'l'hOl'e wet'o collected from Custom!

'., Excise and I \'I'ill givo the figur08 in detail of Canada, during the IR;;t three yeaI'll, than during tho fi va tho OVOI'l"lgo wod.cd by han.

gontlemen opposito.

Those )'O!lr~ that my friends opposite wero in power.
r h:wo tho fi~u.rll'; IIl'C f~l'nishod in B retum from the Dopartmont tigure" hol'o, nnd I will give you tho dnlaon which thoy are gIVIng tho dllfol'ont l"(lud-, (lOd 111m satisfied it is l'clillbl<,.

made lip.

if hOD, gontlemen want intel'olst paid on the Sturnps,in 1814..75,820,604,818.96; iu 1815·76, 118,614,415.02; in 1~76·77.

81'7,697,9:H.8~; in 1877·78, 811,811,938.19 i in debt dUl'ing 1879·80 and 1880·81, Wa'!

87,648,006, againat 1378.


'{9, $18,416,613.35; making a total of $93,295,770.3.... an avel'age inter~s~ p~iLl by our pl'edecossoI'a in 18'14-n 'Ihe Jel:icits dut'illg the fivc yO:U'8 wore 85j491,2G~.51.

If the of 8l.i,80G,501, making an inm'etliH) in the average pay_ deficits ha'.1 heen .collected anLl added to tho f1ums above, ment of to which I it wouhl have amounted to 598,'187,0;19.85.

The avurnge refer.

Flinco the pre.~ont GovOl'nment came into powel', for the five year.. wa;l $19,'15'1,40'1.9'1.
The average popula.

of !8i7,4\J9.

'i'he incrculle in the sinking fund duriog tion for tho pel' capita the ea.mo pel'iorl, ovcr the avol'age paid by hon.

gentlemen tax during that period wae 84,88 pel' head, Thcllo are the oppo,ate, was 8353,4,17.

This W:lS a practical reduction of tigures tlOd th~se 0.1'0 tbe l'esult.~.. Thel'e were collectoo, from debt by that :unouot.

Then tako the u\'etllge increase of CU9tom~, Exclse and St~mps, In 1879·80, $18,479,576.
44 j expenditlu'6 fol' {uJian!>, and fvl' the m:magomentof lands in for 188081, $23,942,138.95.

mnking a totalof842,421,715.. Lhe NOI·th·West, as comptU'ed with the expcndltuNl fol' those ~orvlCCS from 18'11 to 1873, and we find that we have 30.

D<lducting thesurpills fol' the two years, $J,589,51a,36, Icave3 83!),83~,200,03.
The average for the two years of lidded, on account of theBe items, the sum of $2:{5,042. ta:ution wus 819,916,100.0 I, being, on n population ofI'fake next tho oxceptional appropriations made by J!arlia.

the t'.Vo yeal's, bave the following am happy to 8ee pre- the country haa enorm- three yeaNl.

t.vo yeara, a3 ment Inst yC3r, averaging 858,500, for the relief of the 8uf.

4,282,360, $-l,G;) per bead during the laat a"ainst $-t.S8 during tho other period.
Now, Sil', it may be fel'el'8 by 6.rell in Hull and Quebec, and the relief of OUI' 8~i:l but you collected.

more.

We admit it; we collected.

Irish follow-countrymen, and the increased expenditure fol' 12,UOO,000 in the two yenrs more than Wag required fOI' the the Census over their average, amounting to 856,079, and we oxpendituro.

That wall expenditul'C lIod ha"'ing been uoiOd tne debt, altogether of 82,38"2,617, which hon.
gentlemen opposite If were not called upon to make, against an average iocrease diminished any ~on.

gentleman on tho opposite side should obl'ec~ to of '1,229,312•.o~- a di:rerence of 'I,Hi3,246 in favor of the this It should not be the hon.

member fOl' Bo~hwel (Mr. i present Admlmstra~lOn.
If I add to that the '190,000 in a f1peech he mado in the Wellt not long expended in ~he establishment of ~t offices in tho North }liI\~), becauso, sinco, he justified tbe collection from the poople during tho West and nri~ish Columbia, and ill tho Post Office eervice bllrJ times of 1098 tban \vas required, :lnd he uid it wa" a gooel-ally, for which we hove ndilild nothing to the taxntion propel' Ihing to collect le98 becauae ,when the timos bocnme of ~he poople-bccause the ditrel'cnce between receipts anLl tbey would collect more to make it· up, and oxpendiLure in the PO'lt Office is leas during the last two oottel', It is a vel'y com· yeara-it would amount that is exactly what we have heen doing then, to the question which h88 been asked by mon thing to sta.te-I ba\lO heard it statoo in my own Pl'CS- an answer the leader of tho Opposition, how it W8S that in a speech ,euen by a gentleman whom I I made in August, 1878 I 80nt, I believed that ou~ly increased Within '22,500,000 would have lx;n sufficient to pay the expon· increased, ditul'es of the oountry during ~he five yearR the hon.
1 have shown that because we I'equire 23 ceots per head le!8 than 1>efore.

gentlemen oppoaite were in power?

If yoo deduct the the expenditure hilS incr6ll8ed.

How amount 1 have mentioned from their average expenditure But, of courae, If we compare the avorage during the five ye81'8 of their Admioistration-oft23,900,OOO could it be otherwise?

expon,jiture of 1874·79 and 1880.81, wi~h the average -we have ju@t In other words, the five ,Years Vl'eviou8-we ~nd that ~ed?cting.
th08e ~xpenditures, it will be s~n that I was exponditure for our average annual e:lpendlture-ls 81,::\20,372 10 Oll:CesalJustlfied 10 making the statement to whICh the hon.

is on that basis that we of the avelllge annual expeoditure of our pl'edecessora.

I' gentleman alluded, because it admit that fact; It is thel'6 is no denying it.

the whole truth should be known in recOl-d, and I do not wish to deny it.
nOCe688ry to do nOw is, to show how this increased annual refercnce to this matter, and while we, on bo~h sides of the expondituro of '1':~29,372 was incurred, to compal'6 the Bouae, may be oddressing publio meotinga, in different pal1A; expenditure of the previous years with that of the last two of the country, we may not often have the opportunity years, and show thnt the present Government has beon mONl of mooting each other face to face 88 we do hero in It gove me great 8lltisfaction to have my economical than ite Pl'edOC6ll8ors by at leaat '1,000,000 pel' Parliament.
year.

Now, what do we find?

We find that, from the 1st hon_ friend opposite on the platform wi~h me in West an advantag&--con.

July, 1814, 1119,679,28-1, or an averageofS23,9J5,856 pcI' annum.

From sidering reference to the financial position and the expcnditure of the country tbe l~t July, 1879, to the Is~July, 1881, the expenditure was 850,;156,866, or an average aonua!
expenditurc of 126,178" to have my opponent within reaob, where be could make 4~3, Iho clifference in their favor being, as I ha"'e already hia 8ta.tement, and I mine, and than leave tho country, or for what purpos08 wore those th06e who were pl'esent, to decide who WlUl rigbt and who 8tatoo, 11,229,3H.

Ami ezpcnditures made?

It is dC8irable that we should meet our con· lR79-80 and 1880.8(, we worked an average of 401 miles of stituents and the people genel'allyon all suitable oeeasion.
't, i~ is not alwaY8 convenient for both parties to be railway mm'e than hon.

gentlemen opposite worked when but they were in ollice, These 401 miles of railway involved present at the same time.

SometimC8 there is no~sufficient time in an aftel'noon, and 1 admit An expenJituI'e of 8802,000 in excesa of the expenditure for that 8Ometimoa it is difficult to arrange that both sides should be heard on the the like lIervico performed by our predec6fl8Ofs.
f' lIame evening; and again, previous engagemente may It is a matter of al'O carrying on the busin08s of the country to-day.

that .But wbat bcCOQl69 just as wllll ml tl8 0 Iprevent' bu~ at the same time it would be more satis- M MACKENZlE Wb , r. , railway?

In tho firflt place, we find, that io wad wrong.

the expenditure was Northumberland, to 11,343,000, We have, to ~he 1st July, 1879, Sir LF:O~ARD TILLEY.
factory to the people who listen to tbose stat.emeD~ if the fig-urM from a they could hoar, on tbe same occasion, the statements malil ~eturn fUl'nished me by the Department of Railways show-.

by both p:ll'tieil-the one in opposition to the Govol'n· 109 that 401 milOll werewol'kod during 1881, ovor and above!

ment and the other in ita defence.

But here, wo hAve the ex~ndilure of ero were t ese 4 last taxation occupy with position we '22,500,000.

stated that has not two or 01'\ I have about .J,.


that and feft the the the ..... it b I , , ' 11 82 COMMONS DHBATEI:3.

~'EBRUARY -''', ill for the that that tbol'e ~ilitie8 central to the tho debt there existed at their confidence, the expenditnl'e for is that I no", point to statemenUl the alarm thu8 attempted to be created.
It may be of &Ome importance, M I Therefore, the Domioion, as well as and mord in the armour of the Government, who Bre at the position of leaving an annual deficit of 8SSa,952, From fulfilled-to construct the 8lti8faction ot knowing that the hOD.

gontlemen op- I a8y.

Mr. poeit&-gentlornon who afe thoroughly posted in every SpeAker, that looking at tbe debt 08 it is t<>-day, looking ".k point looking three yearll B.
'(O, ready to insert a I~ce if the opportunity OCCUr&---are at liabilities of Canada when this Union wal to hear OUf stlltements, and that we caD each COI'moo, and looking at the liabilities that 81"0 ahead of preeon, the o~er..

It Ul!
It Ul!

in connection witli the completion of the Pll.cifio Railway, pf'8ll8ot our claims i~ the pr;eeeoce of tbeee UI8CU8Iliona I have risen from the investigation of tbh matter witb the wilt be for the pubilc to dcclde, after I conviction Iltr.ong~y fixed in my mind thaC t1lOl"6 is no I'eason are over, who are most wortby of know, Sir, that it haa been said, and said truly, so far as whatever for alann.
But tbe gl'ooteat It is a fact known to the figures are concerned, that tbe expeoditure 01 1878 walt grolllld for bopo and encouragemeot.

aometbing like 123,500,000, while the expenditure of 1881 many members of this HOWle thnt when the four ProvincOlS waa 125,500,OOo-pnblic attention hll8 been called.
to this whicb originally composed.this Union came togetber in Con· federation, the then exiatingdebt of Canadl\averaged 129 per n.ctr-and therefore it taken from the Pllblic Acconnts, of the receipta from Cu~ head, bl\Sed upon the Censu~ returns of 1861.
825 a head tQD18 and Ezciae during tbe periods I have named, to the was at that time assumed by the Dominion of C1l.oada, with facta as they appear D~n record,-to ahow that not only the ezception of New BruWlwick, which, under special tiro have the pl'8llent AdmlDistration taz.ed the people tor the cumstanC88, received consideration to the extent of 82,50 than our predeces- more, We know perfectly well that that did not pay all the nec8llll&l'Y 8.ll:pen8e8 of the conntry leBi It len a debt&qun~ to l4a head, BOra did, but that we have ab.iOlutely spent, f<>r the services debt of Ontario and Quebec.
performed by tbem, more than a million dollars per annum which was aubsequently, in 1873, 8S8umed by the Dominioq, IBM than tbey did.

time a debt, tllking the have'a1ready referred to tbe espenditures for postal aervico, pop,ulation of 1861, of 829 a head for every mlln, woman nnd the attention of tbe HOU86 to the demits, From child in tho Provinces whicb in 1867 constituted Canada.

to call 18'70 to 18'19, this aervico averA&oo Then tbere was the obli.
't8tion, whicb became part and par '1,'109,3'15, and tbe rooeipto for the 8ame period avoraged eel of the Constitution-1l.n obligation which haa aince boen the Intercolonial Railway; and tbe 81,149,423, IR'19 to 18~1 the expcnditD.I'S· aVel'Bged ·81,847,605, and construction of that railway added 16 a hoad to the debt, leAving an annual deficit of over and above the 1211 that existed at the time o~ctho tbe receipta 81,302,303, In i8ta.
;,' '646,202, That shows an average increased expenditure Union, making the debt practicallr 835" belld.

of '138,130 a year, with inorellaed accommodfltion to the 79 the net debt of tbo DOminion.

0 Canada Wtl8 but '.

!U,per Nortb.WeBt, British Columbio., and various parts of tbe out- head of the population.

At the preseot moment it ill &Ome· inCl'eased tbing like 835 pel' heAd of the poliulatioo.

LeI.
LeI.

us &ee what lying portiooa or it will be in 1879, the oot debt, as llhown by the Accouuts, popUIOUll pplltal portioos, and an aV'erage increaeed revenue of 1152,880, or wall'J.i7,481,070; in 18dl it was·'l55,396,680.

Then our a rednotion of the deficit to tbe extent of 114,750 a year.
engagementa from the lst luly IAal, for the completion of Now, Sir, it may be well to e&1.I the attention of the House the PaciftcRailway, iDeluding the 825,000,000 to be J.lAid to to one or two otber fAoLl, to aho.... wby it ia that we have tbe Syndicate, the 113,000,000 to be expended ,by tho·Gov.

been able to keep the tantion of the people lower tban it omment in the oompletion of the I18Ctioos now· uDder con· .was.
doring tbe time ollr friew 0Ppo8lte were in power, In tract, canal expellditure, say 16,08'l,OQl), and other expendi.

connection with thit, I deeire to call the attention of tbe ture chargeable to oapftal, .say I3,MO,OOO,~ ",ill malte tho 110088 to retnrDl with reference to the working of tbe totaJ 1203397,680, &tJMKween·thia.pDd 1890 tbe amount the working tbat ia to ~ paid into the tinlr:ing fl1oo, and which ~rm8 railways.
expell888 per mile of.the Intercolonial Railway-and I havo part of onl' annual cbargee upon the cofUlOlidatod rennl1e, tbm retnrn from Hr, Tims, the Mcountant-weL'e, Oll the will overage 11,500,000 a year for the nut nine yeate.- ThRi; averago.I2,1I59, and fl'Om July, 1879, to July, 1881, $1,987, will give, for the I'eduction of the dobt, 81:1,500,000.

Then or a dift'llf6nce of '6'11 per mile.


The averaae reccipt8 pel' mileforthefiveyelU'll,from the I..t Jul"18'14, to tbe bt July, 1879, were '1,'760, and for the t",o years, from the lllt July, 1879, to the 18t July, 1881, Sir LEONARD TILLEY, An hOIf.

member say.

Oh I '1,930, or an in· thi8 year, oreue in tbe income of,I70 per mile, and a reduotion in but when we ·have '4,500,000 aBRured for tbat th_ e,penditlU't of '611 per mile.
The average mil68g0 wheo expenditllro of the ~rince FAwlrd hland Rairway, from we a aurpiull July.

18'15, to July, 18'19, wae 11,129, and from July, 1879, of 83,OUO,OOO for thID".

to July, 1881, 1926, being a decroaae in tbe working aaking too much fer the bon.

gentleman to accept &8 rOa&on upeD88ll of 8203 per.

mile.

The average receiptl per able a lIurplua of 81,000,000 a year, for the remaiping leven mile for the four years, from Jnly, 1875, to luly, 1819, were yetlta of the nine.
commencing on the lllt luly la.st, that '649.

and fur the two yoare, from July, 1879, to luly 1&11, would make 114,500,000 aod would, with tp.e sinking fund, 161'1, beiog a decl'eaae in the mileage receipt.

of 13Z, againat if we osti· a deoreaae in the expenditllre of 8203 per mile.

That I give, mate the Increaao of population at but 18 por cont.
Sir, as one of the items of reduotion in onr eJ:p8nditure only durio,l( last taking the popu· ".hich (llf!.- WI ouob a marvn tbat the inoreaaed cxpeoditllre, and at tbe ~ame tim6 to diminibbthe/lalion at tho taxation•.

There hM been another 8tatementpot forward cal· net debt hM'e cul.ated very much to diRCOurage and diahelU'ten.
the people any e.ztraol"linary incJ'('lae of our poptllation \Whi~'h of Canado, and at tbe /lAme time to injure the G<>vernmeot; ha\'e that ia, that the debt of the Dominion of C1l.oada ill inore:llt- oot e,.timah1 for berd) it WIll be ample to meet, at any roteo.. ing in a greater ratio thau i.ta w('alth andi.ts pDplllation, and aDyextraordinary eJ:penditore that may be mado chargo· th1l.t, looking 18 the future, tbere is not a brlghtouUootr for Ahle to tbe debt which we are oot anticipating at.
lhe pnaont 114 Ilo..n~ially when tbe Paoillc Railw:ay is comple.tedi':.aQJ moment.

But, more t~an tbat, l\CL'ell all, 8J:~6t!nl{ eng&l(em~nta foll,y oarnod.

out.

Now, Sirl I ·of arable land ~bat w,U be tile' property of the Govern· thlOk It II Impol'tant, to the IDtere8t.f of tbe country, tha' ment Aner haDdlDg over to tbe Syndicate 25,000,000 of allre8, \be people shonld quite qnden1and tbere ia no fOllndalion and "hich i8 D,OW e.stablisheJ &8 6t for settlement, yield.

the ten.
the ten.

yeal'8 tbe incroaae of re.~ult wHI tbat period debt then will be '34.21 per heati.

I think it ii but right to os~t we will, but which no doub~ that the next year, is propo8d to make, the aurplUl.ft)l· tho nine ye.ilrs- reduction be ia not, Au hon:,MEMBER.

Ohl after there will to 11'75,89'1,680, But From July, 18'14, to incur decade, tho 150,000.OOll to luly, 1879, tbe oat debt it enabled Ull and tbe be thllt, If we atated, l'OOUce thel'o the the 811 if it I Sir Laolf~ TiLLD', .

1882.
1882.

COMMONS DEBATES.

83 ~ _ _ .

I ?

fi II Lf In nt the por oar \9'3pl heatl r e .

intel'est The ex ~fllro.1 .~,460,OOO; tn banks, llOpulatlon tho foroc; S9:.1.0JO i~ dopnSllS In f.eM, fi,mk~, nJit.llle (hilt n~xt )·e:tl·, OX~08S of it> y .

, to tho crodl~ of t1H\.tw thC~:ISC,!

_ _- ....•_.. _._.- _..... ....w •••• __ ••••••••••••••• _ .

~ h " *'29 1311 I ~ - .••• 1 DT thtl hon.

gentleman gi\"8 tbo tho PlU.

:illc R'ldw:ly,!

order fmd condition.


10 IIl6T-Oll~ •••••_ •••••••-_••••••• ~ ~ •••.. ~ .. H In ISH _._ 10 lSTlI-T9 ••••• _ III 1881 .. _._ (the cthol' h:llf being:: 12n,OOO, owing to incre:\SCtI cxpe:nditul'C in tho m:\;nlen:lnco tile whulo ofc:m:ll", in kocping them up anti having them in officillnt CutloOl flld POIIOtliea PlIblie Worb, C.II..I••lI.d Rail"", !II..lere.t oDlnutmntl_._ _.__ .
Ah.uJla.neoul ..••..•••.._••..- Bill Stamp............................................... ~ir, [think, is an encouraging featul"e in connection with tbeI000 dollar ?O Bond9 or DebonturC!!.

future taution of the people of Canada.

Wo nu\v come the.

oxpendltul'e o~ the to the estimated expendituI'e for the cuncnt year.

for t.be considerAtion of the HOUIlO, an amollded estimate I III the Tardr dunog thlB Se8d1~:)u. oftbe recoipta of the current.
year: bnl 81 an :'\Cl'e for h:J.lf of it offol'od n", n (t'ea ginlo !l<lttlel'~), it will moet 8:l"poodiluro of tbe GO\"tll'nffiont Ull aDd in IheNol"lh'\~83t.dow?

to I.S!)().

)!l',l1AGKESZlE.

CUll tben our debt, whlch certamly 1:1 11'11.

alarUlllig', pronth)ll ' [ "I tho 61lln th:'lt L !lave 1I1:JteJ, j C:IIl:\ 8 bCjJltrn 0 loom U~ r:1I we Te:llize from the:'O I:u~di would only be about 8100,000,000, inelc:lu of 8175,000,000.'

Si.'

L!-~O~ A.nD TlfJLEL On Public Wl>rk,i f,.

)t' ine.>mo i:l cha!


"geJ 198,366; frw maintonanco :lIu.I.

ropairil, 829,000; or leN than 1\f'Onty dol1:l1"8 per helltl.

Uuuor these cireom- btanC8::1 Sir I t.hink there is 110 great l;.

"Il1S0 for Illarm as r:\r )Ioonted Police, i90,OOO.

Thi!

\Va!

alii/) refilrrod tl) by tho :u tho taxa:ion of tho peoplo is conccl'ned, growing out of hon.

lcl·tder nf tho Govel'nmont in the liillOech ho m~ule in It i:s tor the iocrea.

'ie of the deht.

Then thoro i,,; Motl.lor motloof nnllwor to tho hOIl.
the leader of tho 0PflositiDD.

daaling witb t.his qUCllt.ion, ar,d tbat ill the interast we h:,,'n tho propoecd increase of tn lo!)

o:a:pended dUl'ill,$' tho Ilresollt }"('al', bocau86 0 port.ion of the to pay.

We paid por he.:u.l.

of tho polluhuinn: forco will be IInnished with (hcir ootlit alld .sent lhtll"o imDll'lJiatel.

thoroforo , y .

1:iI'gOl' 10 proportIon for tho t.lmo t.hey Will be on duty than that for next year.

The engaf>"emenlll fltlling dlle for tho In 1890, estimllling the Del.
debt at 1175,897,680, and the YO:II' 18S1.8·~, not chal'go:ablo to .

(~)II90lidnted .Rev~nuo, may population basod 00 nn increase of tEl per cent.

for the ten be ~tated ns followlt: Redempllon of tbe Debt, ....,7ti~,880; .0,500,000, SUI'VOyS of LandI!

III tho that tbe whole dcbt of H.allway" nnd Caoals, .real's-t(lking into account the fact the Dominion ofCanftJa "ill then bellr but 4 per cent., instead North·West, 540.0,000,.

Il;,aking Rltl'g~ther 112:6~8,880.


of the interest wo lire paying Dow-taking: that intollceollnt., We pm'poso mcetmg tbls 1ft tbe foJ1o.wln!

;t "(!

: Surplus aDd placing tbe inUlrO'lt 00 the debt at 17,000.~00 pel" annum f~r.

tho overnmen~ Jlaymc~tll, 1,4,500,000, that ~.IVlOgM lhe of time would bo at most 11.37 agaiost.

IU'J71 at tho present.

tho Recolvol' Gencrl.'.1.

at take into aC<'ount t.h~ call, 83,300,000.


?ot of whICh we C:l.O lake tbe l'em!\lO~ng doy, and thilf astimate docs not probable reduction of dobl by the fUl.103 of lands.

Thi8, 14,000,000.

ThlS makes 112,960,000, WIthOut Ool'l'OwlOg t!lke up It Will be con I submit yOnlcnt fOI: me tc?

glvc ;'Orne I~ea of the .pro~ ehaogM to do I EO beforo I onter lIrc?

:n the MllmateJ 1'CCelpta and expen· .

dituI"Csnfnextyanr.

Thofullowing are tho prop09ed cbang8:5 t in tho Tnl·iff.
Tho rcsolutions aro diJt'o'n'Cntly wordeoJ, but I h .

be on.

ntem N may hare p!ncoo t. em lU t 18 lll'm 80 t at is understand c:uclly the effect.

of the reaolutioo!l.

pmpoeed to pll\CC upon the free Jist, taking them alphnbet!- .

cn y, anatomlCA preparatIOns; t ey were 66 prevIOus y to 1879, DOW thoy are restored to the free list; bee8, bray in sbeela; Dritannia metals io jli~ nod 001"8 celluloid in and an expenditure of 127,250,000. showinA' a surplu8 of shoots.
Cethtlaid;111 an lDlltit:t(m_Jy.2.lX-lJ~-iabl}ljl; tho iin!!OI!

aod ol'gtln:::b.tllldera.... U.

~Q.!!.....Pa'y!

'-.20 .per ceot, 14,460,000 for Table of the House, yesterday, a stlpplcment.

:ary estimaUl China clay.

Chloralum.&3 a di8iofl!ota"Qt is u mOllt v.lu~"blo for the prcsont roar, it h", l,;hal'geable to plnco it nn the fl'CO list.

is comJlOlled of the following items: Coffee, 'gJ-een (excepl by Act.J~ Vietol'ia, cb:\ptel' 1~), I'I'oe i 11,000,000.
That fowls flli' improvin" lllac!>; il'on, Band or glohules nnd dry Indian9,1327,189, (l need scarcely onlel'upon any expll\nn- 1'bil:l bns ooen dono tion with 1'0fel'ence to the circumstances uDder whicb this puUy flli' l101ishing granito.

Quinine.

fl'iendl!

opposite.

In deforenco to the \vishell of our hon.

additional oll:peoditure W8l1 made neceSMry fOI' the Cl1lTent leA, (except.

ns It waa refOrl'ed to by the ri,l(ht hon.

the le:w'el· of tbo Quickhilvol'; spotter in blocks nnd pigs; yeal·.
Government in tho remarks that he made on the A,ldre89 pl'ovidcd in Aet 42 Victol'ia, chaptol' .1.50).

(PcI'b:tp~, be na ,vell, while 1 am on in replytothespeeehoflhehon.ltlltderoftheOppnsition.)

Mr. Speaker, The nut Helfl is working CXpen80!

of rnilwayll, 1312,000. the ten que9tion, to S:1Y a IVOIU or two \vith reference to ~omo It is criticism that lJ:l.S heon pa:l.'ied IIpOll the COlll'fle the Go.ero· That is not an inCI'euod lax upon the peorle.
am ba.ppy ment took in announcing in ndvnnco that Parliomeot \vould tin increased expenditure rendored nOOO.i6ary, It will be remembol~ to the of that, when bst "s688lon die hon.---readcr tho House, W"ay9; and I am al80 happy to bo :lblo 1.0 state that 'fir ~he 0pp9sili9R fll'aall~ I ~Iutian:!

"'-ror ilio:r <'Of\".

to thu inc;l"'f!ttsOO.

they nre yielding a revenue oquif'alont O%penditu~, nnd, therefOl·e.
thougb it add9 to the nominal -sidtmlt'ton, prollOslngn TOOuctioo of 1'0:18 t.o.X:lt.iOD, t.he Government, sum of the eJlpendituI'o of tile ye3r, itndds nOlhillg whate.er to t.ho taution oftbej·B8.r.

Then we enlOe to the immigration slated tho re:tlW)n!

why, at nOt \Ve did to ask Porlinmont to redueu expcn8M.128,OJO.

This i9 an item that WAll formorly borno feel oureolvoa in a posir.i.oll hy tho Go.ernment of Ontario, under nn l\rrangement It was uncertain, what etrcct tsntlOll.
Wo st:l1OO that UI policy would bave, althoogh it hnd abown lhot it wns n they \vould bear made with in rQ\'enuc-protlucing Tariff up to that.

period.

Stitl, there W:li two· third, of thRt.

Province and coming: by way of Que~c.

They decline 8Omo unccI·tainty as to the olf'ects it.

wO:1M h30,'0 wben the now to continue t.hat Mrnngement, and W<l hove to (lsk t.he new industries boing: C3tabli8hcd \voro in full 0f1el'lltioll.

HOD~ for 128,000, to pay the nxpenl108 thu!4 incufl'Cd.
Whnt was moro irnllo,·tant, I :1bo stilted th1\t thoro h::a.1 booo ~b" lOereaaed oxpcndituro for tho Post OfficD, ilt 80mething pelit.ions eent.

to Congre!l8 h-...m Mll9lI8.chnseUs, t"..(>m ~lil.ir'l', lIke 175,000, but., a9 t explnined bofvl'o, it gi\'os an incrt!nsod :lnd from NOlv York, atoking tbem to appoint a Commi<>aioll income lind.

mailltonaoce ami ~ to coo fer wilh a Com'mission to be appolUt.eU hy lho Impcl·jal reve~lle.
Public \VOl'ks, to conaidel' the qlle"'tion of reoipl'Ocit)-" that repaIrs, show an incrofLSe of, in onc, '98,336, nnd the other, I Governmellt, involving:ln inelo:\sod e~l)6nditllrc, :I~nd uA6iI extensively by rich and poor, $20.500.000 5.~OOO 1,400.0e0 2,4U,OOO T&O.OOO 900,000 100,000 revenue, of IIOmething liko b('on thought rail· be :l:lked In removo tb~ dilly.

expen80S of immigr:ants settlinp; iti my pineo 3nu 00 6ebalf of that that Government, I thlO~ It be;;t tn cOllFlOlidatorl current ye:ar.
__.. $31,no,ooo increa.&ed it would businOlls dc~il':\ble timo, npoo TII.I.I lbat h' C Btly, Iflid lbe the the by .•.•• It _~ fr h _ II h h I I I I .

.

84 COMA-IONS DEBATES.

FEBRUARY 24, the Govenuneot as well, then consented to do.

At .oao importation or noL under these circumstances, it was Dot d6/lirable to remove any duties then oollected, 88 by lIuch an arrangement we would lose '1,000,000 revenue, atleaat, 00 natural products.

If no arrangement.
If no arrangement.

were made with the United States by 'Which this revenue wOllld be interfered with, I 1113100 tbat on the r&&B&eDtbling of Parliament I would ask the I'epre eent;ativel of the people to remove two items of taxation, namely, the dotiee on tea and oolfee.

In 18'72, wilbont any notice to tbe public, with.

duty on tea tiD per cent.


higher than At present, and wben tea dealers were found with large stoob on hand dny-~id applicationg were made to the Government to refund it, which, under the oircumet&uOO8.

the Government the preeent time.

it would be ezooedingly diftlcult to adopt that prin ciple, particnlarly aa we have a ditferential duty on tea ooming from.

the United States.
the United States.

It would have been ez· eeedl~~ifflOultto decide as to ita value, and whether it w. The Governmeot, therefore, dooided, UIl1eM there were stJ'Ooger re&80nd thAD we oould thu see, we would not take the OOtlr86 we did in 18'12.

And to diminish the diftlculty what did we do" When viliting the Maritime Provincee iu July, witb other I deolared di.

members of that we intended, tinctly what we stated in Parliament, among other tbe to take duty off tea and 008'86.
And we made thil statemeot in the country would be OD the 80 that every dealer alert.

We did n01 want the revenue i we did not wish any man to lose by a red.notion in the Tariff on these articles j andwII did not wiah to besubjeetod to theemharrs8iment that oocurred in 18'l2 j 80 we repeated wbat we 8&id in Parliament, thnatpntting every man on his guard.

(Proceeding with the ohan~.

in the Tariir, we a180 propose to place on the fl'ee liet tin in blocks, pig&, bars and llb.eelB.
That mean' a reduotion of 1100,00-0 of revenne at l1168t.

It is true, on the lins naed for the lIshen81 &Dd.

~rted, the parties no;w obtain a drawbaok, but that i, attended with conlliderable di1lon1ty.

There iii a growing indutry in thil country -the oanning indtatry-thil ooveN canned filh, fruits and vegetablee, tlie removal of this duty will be a releif to the agriealtnrU aDd elbing indoatri8L Wood&-Afrioan teak, ~Mkheart ebony, lignnm vite, red cedar and Il&tinwood we' propose, also.
to plAoe on the free list.

Thill will meet the eue of 80me industriee in the conntry which uee them and have to pay duty on them.

The following duti88 are uhaDged: Bookbinders' tools and implemeuts, from 15 per eent.

to 10 per cent.

Common and colorleee windowgl8.8ll, now 20 per cent., we propoee to raill8 to SO per (lent.

The late Finance Minister will be glad to h6Al' thill propoeition, beoauee ODe of the glau factories i. located in a li8Otion of the oountzy in which he is intereeted.
to ask Parliament things, been indnatry is important one Sir RICHARO J. CARTWRIGHT.

No j no.

Sir LEONARD TILLEY.

Scrap iron, now paying 12 per ton we pro~ to reduce to II.

The queetion of the Il'On duti&ll h8ll pr8886d npon the Government.

an The no doubtj iron but at this moment we are not prenated to llubmit an1 further propoeition regarding it and r can only Il&y, in addt tion, with referenoe to it, that the snbjeo~ i. for tlie present under oonlideration.
We, -therefore, make DO ohange escept I have named.

The further proJ)O&ala we make that to ad per cent.

i saDd are: Lead manufllotnrel, from 25, paper, ftom.

20, to 26?6r cent.

j ship' hulls, when containing the machinery 1IlAl3hinery, in th.
hullll This is becaul6 we there was 1'6a1ly found that nnder to people to go to the United States and an inducement build .. v8llfl81 and put in her machinery thflre, for they could be both brought in at 10 per cent., wbile machinery brought in eeparately w.. subject to a duty of 26 per cent.

To Ipirita ana skong waten mixed, now paying 11.90, 20 to remam 10 per cent.

; but tLe old arrangement to be 26 per cent.

Sir Lao"ABll TrLLU.
Sir Lao"ABll TrLLU.

in the fi:linJe difficulty found great I think this was an omillsion in per cent.

ill to be added.

the put, because we lind, from observation.

that the fluid oxtracts imported iob:> the countlY only pay 121- per cent., while those who manufacLure them in the country bave to pay 11.90 for alochol ueed in their manufactory and have no protection whatever.

On bags containing salt we propose a duty of 26 per cent.
At preaent bags, in which line salt i.e importad, pay nO duty wbatever j but the manufacturer of fine Il&U in the Dominion of Canada, if he purehaae& the cotton bag, haa to pay the duty upon it, whatever it may be.

Clock springs, now 36 per cent., are to be reduced to 10 per cent.

CoLton eeed, now 20 per cent.

is to be 10 centa per bOBhe!.

Fireworkll are to be at 25 per cent.

Wronght iron tnbing, one and thref) to be reduced from 26 quarter inch and upward&, is to 15 per cent.
Mnstard cake is to be 20 pol' per cent.

cent.

Paraffin wu: or stearine will be placed at 3 cents It has been per pound instead of at an ad valorem duty,.

difficult to arrive at a fair and jnst valuation, and it ill becawte of that that this change ill proposed.

Rice, nnbulJed or paddy, ill to be plaoed at 171- per cent.

This is for the purpoee' of fOBtoring-and it is lik.ely to do it, becaU86 there are a number of steamertl now chartered-a direct trade be tween the Dominion of Canada and- the ~tIndi88.
.Besides, there is being erect.ed in Montreal mille where we will obtain a bettor artiole at a lower price.

The CU9toms officials 8ave value of different kinds offrnlt treee imported.

To overcome these difficnlties we propoee specifio dutiee in lieu of ad valorem dati.

&8 folloWll: On apple t~, 2J cents; pear,.

cents; plum, 5 cents j chtlrry, 4 cents j quince, 2. cente; lp"ape vi nee, 4 cents.
Silk plUBh or nett.ing for glovee to be 13 per cent; harnesB and lenther droSlling will be placed the head of blacking at 25 per cent j belts aud nnder trU880S wilt come undor the head of brll<lM and suspenders.

Kentucky jeana are to pay cotton duty.

Thill is beoauae etl'orta have been made to enter articf.

of cotton nnder the heo.d of Kentucky jeanll.

cloth we propGfl8 shall pay :dO per cent.

j black and bleached cotton, and Biz per cent.


only, cords Tarpaulins coa~d with oil paint or and cotton br.gs, mooe up by the uee of to pay 30 per cent.

A qU88tion hall arieen in the Department; 88 to what daty shall be impoeed upon furs when in certain conditions of dressing.

We now purpose to add the wordl " wholly or partially drefl88d" after the word fura, to meet; that diffloulty.

Boisten aDd pilloR bave been entered' M a lower rate of duty than mattresses.
We prop088 now that the duty on bolllten aM pltows shalt be the Hnle as upon matt.r868es.

Gl8ll8 (preea84 or' moulded) tableware is t9 be added.

Iii&&- Under the head of paints, the duty on orange mineral,.

dry, which is much to be reduced the same ertiole as dry white to 5 per cent.

We also propolG to add to the list of :aoqnen, Japan and collodium.

Th88e changell varniehee, involve a reduction in .tAxation, nDder head of Customs, .of 11,000,0(,0.

Now, Hr.
Now, Hr.

Spetiker, I mayaay here a few wordl with reference to the propoeed chang81 alfacting the It will be remembered that a ohauge receipts from Exeil8.

W8Il made with reference to th.

mode ofdealin~ with hom~ grown tobaooo.


It required tbat all partl88 r&111ing tobacco should have authority from a Government offlcial to do 80, reetrietiou, and that but we now propole to remove that all partiee shall have the opportunity, and as openly and 88 freely withoat licen8&, to rai.. tobaeOO, as they have to rai/l8 potatoell as far &8 Government reetriotions are concerned.
It II propoeed, however, to leave the amount which i.e colleoted fOl' twillt the 88me as it DOW ii, and to license parti08 in dif ferent plU'Ul of the country, wiihout the payment of any fee, to bny from the produoers of tobacco anywhere and e...ery· where, wbatever lurphle the?

may have for 8&le, andelloh part.ie8 will.1I to the iutJivldll81a who have the Jioenees to 121- tar, the nood-M, to the 30 per cent.

Knitted eotton throo lead, il 1882.

COMMONS DEBATES.
COMMONS DEBATES.

85 till the h:u ~till, U'(ll.~: sums threu reanl the hbt tho next into the 16,000,000 thi8 JMI', 18~2, wo nl'l,:l illdu.~triell of two year~, p-at' \0 kn'c 411O"jUO ~p;lIliks the countl'y, we may huve lIJO ~'.llll\' am"unl 0(' H:l'tlJ:l;l' wlli!

';;, In consideration, on lll\'clitments, 8700,000; 'l'his and the e.:itimllteU revenue of next Jenr, tobacco which i~ grown in tilO [I"om cottvn j.

(0'..uC'l tho expol'ta of which amount that this should not be done.
the competition nnd interfel'ElnCe of ill lIlnnuf:lclul'o.

We PI'0P0,;O that fOI" the p1'l)t':ILil:'il'~ :1I0 (11:11 11"> will nM ol.l;l'n instcn(lof 14 centll, as now levied, pel' pound,8 CI'uls ]'CI' Opel":llion, poulld ~hall be lovied on all I\'t.\ the two yc::I.1'8 following, 10 hav1.l 1:,,'Coi\"~lfflom thi~ ,<olli.

:C llllt-ing tho 1,:I;;t yellr.

'fho T>ominion of Canllua, nou for ~llOWtl t1I:1t r.ent!!

per pound.
per pound.

Thil\ change will pl'obably atreet the e.'I'[ld'lcncu of the,;o m:Ulul'"clul'ing 1'6VI'DUe, although we cannot pl'Onounr.e exactly on this whero vitnlit}" is gil'OIl to :wy onc of poillt-8;;0,OOll the first )'ear; aller that the reduction will indu"tric,~, we find thnt the employes, :md thoso who:m~C(lIl' provably runge fl"Om 850,000 to 87;;,000 II year.
Then necled with them, nr.d the p:lrticll wlJO import lIlnchinelT, there is another question which hall been lll'ought under the pay lal'ge rc\'cr.uc-lho I'CVCIJUO frolO cOllsidcl'ation of the Governmeot, by the commercilll mon wachinery nlone during tile past yCn!

'nmounteJ to 8120,000 I refel' to tho legislation I'equil'ing -and these ret;tore to the 'l'I'ell~ury much ofthllt which i:s lost nnd bankers of Cannda, stamps on notes and billll of exchange.
in dulies on nl,ticles manufactured j but the"e In the prelJai'atioll inullstrie:l incl'caoe lind multi ply, the imports of wme of thc~e of this Tariff no special consideration \vas giyen to thosc Ivho are engagoo in busine&'J except in the way of increased al,ticle8 1Il1l,~t neces...·wily decI'c3se, Still, we may faidy bu:siness, and tho prom pt payment of :l.Ccountil, We pl'Opo~e consider that, under the operation of thet<e ]lI"OPOSed cbange~, to relieve this cla&> of the community of this duty, which and undO!'
tbe operatioD of the increase in the mllnufactuL'ilig hM given a revenue of 8200,000 a Jeal', And further, tlntilnble tbe uovel'nment have decided to ask P3diament, in UIO 81,750,000 le88 dUl'iog the noxt year than we will ha,e Supplemellw.ry Estimates, for 8150,000 to be distributed in during the 11l'c:l8nt Jeal', Now, Sir, I desire to come to the the Iiha1!e of a bounty to the tish6l'men of the Dominion of e.~timnte with thoso ch:l.nges in view of the oxponditul'tl It is o"limatcd Canada III lieu of tbe iDterea~ on the l'~isbery AwanJ, subject, Si .., has bflCn a difficult one, because Pl'08l\Ul'O bas thut the Custom" will yield next yc::u', instead of 820,aDO,000, been bl'Ougbt to beal' by some of the local government8 which wa~ the o81imat.e sum of fOl' the payment of the amount of tbo Fishel'y Award to $19,500,000; (!
'Om Excise, 8;;':,00,000, from the PCi't Office, fol' them; but a vote-and a vory large vote-of Parliament 31,5uO,000; Rn.ilways nnd Cunalll, 82,500,000 j Intcrcst and Miscellaneous, 8900,000. declared that however, of the making n totnl of S30,UOO,006, Tho eXI)cnditure, uCl"Ord Amerir.anll with our own fillhcrmen, it has been considered ing to the &timate:l which are now aid on the 'l'able desirable to give a tonnago bounty to every vessel enga~cd of tho House, will be 827,300,000, or in in the fieheries, and also a Cf\Ita.in sum to every boat \vhlch that neighborhood, Tbe voto that will be asked, in the that Supplementary Estimates, as bounty to the fi:shormen, wiU Memploycd in lhe fisheries and which is licenBOd fol' pUtp?.s8, And while lhis will encoura~e the fishermen of be 8150,000, and there will probably be fm'ther Supplemon fi811lng oporalion8-an tary F.~timates :lmountin~ nlro to 8150,000, making tho the Dominion and extend our important industry, to gl'Og:l Estimules, 827,600,OJO fOl' nC'xt ycal', The items in it which the oxpemlituro iii inCl'en!
;cd are thoge which nre placed over the will increase the building of a certain class of vO!
'sels in tho in the Supplemental'y Estimates for the pl'osent ycar, Dominion of Canada, such 3S are to be found in MfUI~achusetts, Iodians, the postal SOI'vice, railways, and val'ious olber ser nnd con8tructod especially for this branch of business, Our vices, and thIS willle3ve a surplus 01 ~3,000,000, I have not people go there now, ll.8 they have gone every year ainco the takcn into account the probable receipt of a very much lal'ger sum from the proceeds of lands to be S9ld in the North, pna~age of the Washington Treaty, likely to be rcccived during the present year, The treaty was in existence, and to ports elsewhere in the We8t, United States to make arraogement8 with the owners of eatimute of recoipts, from nil sources, uneCor the head of mis the ves8el1l and elipper8 which are ooapted fol' their collsooous lalit year, waa something like 8800,000.
They pUl'p06eS, Ilt 5900,000, and I ha,e COl) the next )"(':1.1', bu~ tllCl'C ill ovel'y no \'ooaels such as lhey require-consequently, wllieh wo propo~e to tako will not only aneoul'ngo and!
imlietltion, anu it i:l quito within tho I':lnge, no~ OI/lOSSibility , benefit our that thoy potion, but to the can l'CsQl'\'e a 8ufficient amount of land in the lliatl'icUl of eenstl'Uclion of the class of vcssels which are required the co~ntry th3l will be roquired for aClual8ettlement, the for this special work, Now, Sir, the l'e8ult is tbat the pro, Goyernment may be able to aell for cnt<h, without intorfer positioDs whicb I have just 9ubmitted, will entail II to ing with tho principle of actualsoltJemenl, a lal'go quantit,)" IO!l'\ amount of land, and a very lar~e I'ovenue will be received h"Om it.
I the revenue fl"Om Customs and Excise to the of81,300,OOO a )'ear, while there will be an extra expendi- havo placed, howover, in this C8timate, nothing moro than tur~ of IH10,000 for receivod during the T,hls Will, of eOlll'fle, roduce the ll\'ailablo meana at It wilt be seen that we will have to pl"Ovide dl~posal of the Government to the extent of 81,;;00,000 pel' :l. very large sum for eXp6nditUl'o undel' tbe b~ad or Capit.al annum, llnd it may do more, Slill that mtly Le the limit, Account.
POl' inllUlnce, the Minister of Railways hlL!l a>;kod though other ci!

'cum&tdnees may reduce the revonuo, for &8,200,000, as subllidy to the Pacific Railway Syndicate refinories during the next year, That is based upon their own 8late We for, the manufacture of beet I rathor think lit all evonts, whatever bUlllllesa which, 80 far, must,not sbut OUI' eyea to the fact that tho far distant-and, perhapa, it Will.
OCC?I' in tho n~x~ t\voh'e term8 of the ,:Igl'cemellt wil be received by the Go\'ernmellt !U0nths-when the revenue ,vhlch 18 now re~ol\-£d from from the sales of the Ifl,nd-gl'ant bond&, I\nd thorefOl'e wo will I'!

'portod cane sugar will be diminished, owing to the not requiro to go oul.

!lide for any loan for the PUI'POSO of Vlg0l'?llS }lro:leeutioll of this industry, he, What tho ]1On.
M.inister of R.'J.ilwnys and the hon, revenue; but, at oeca,slon a aD ,Hnpe,tua .....ill be given to a manufllctul'ing indu~try,IMilliliter of J'uhlic WQI'kll claim tbat they will expend, Oil fishel'men in the prosecution of theil' occu- but (If I'robabilily, that it will also give a Dew impetus the dny is not money may be required.
to ray to th~ Syndicate UDder :WhIch w~ll, be of especial ~vflnlago to the ,ngri~ult1ll'nl tho Pacific ~lIilwny nOw nndCl' oontrl\\'t, ill the completion mtcrcst, If It pl'ove8a 8UCcel':S, When we bonr III mind tI,e {If thc sections ootwoon the b~all of Lake Supcrior nnd fact that \'1'19 nave at present b"t 180,000 "pindlea engaged in 1M:milObn, on the Dl'itillh Columbia ~eclion, on the C:Ulalll tho manufaclul'El of cotton, and that.
before the close of lhe land on othor Public Workacbargeable tocllpital, 89,000,000 j Tha~ thi:l will meeting whatevor lime, is more, hus been limited, but 6till wo thllt an outllide cstimate, hut, them on sharca-llS we have :Ire e~timatod this yenr is a ment of thtl wOl'k they expect to perlol'm, the purposo which I ha\'e named, the ordinary 8um expeded to be the !>top tinued tll'lt c~timnte ft,l' now having erected three that oxpendituro may llS well ai'l before that if tho GO\'Ol'lllDont the current YC31', to man find sail somewhere the Iiamo expected year-it loss of 6ugar, sugar Thia root are fcc is a 86 COMMONS DEBATl<;S. FEBRUARY 24, that bank deposit of 14,000,000; we tho ned year of 13,000,000 j in Canada, of a loan at 4 per cent.
and,in ndditicn, we will r06tore-haV6 to rooeem-S'l,340,000.

I 8houltl not Bay hllvcto redeem, we will redeem-we nro not bound to rodeem-85,OOO,OOO of it betu'ing- 5 pOl' cont.

inlere"t, hut we have given noli~ to tho holdeu of lhasa 15,0110,000 of ~ pol' cont.

secnritiealhllt wo willl'oooom them in September next-nnd 82,340,000 of 6 per cent.
debentllreg fall due in England; making altogether 116,340,000, that we will have to provide for outside oftbe sums to be paid to the Syndicate, and for which we have now on dep08it 00 in the bank 15,000,000.
We have an Olllimated interetlt an ostimated surplus for savlnge an have estimate of'l,ooo,Ooo increase in circulation of Dominion notes, leaving but $3,600,000 to be raised' either by the ex chan~e of 4 per cent., bonds for the fives to that amount, or the lB8Uing, for the 'li,600,000, We were able to provide for fS,150,OOO last year, '12,000,000 this year, and '16,OOOROO for next year without ftoating a loan outside of tho vominion of Canad", or any loan indeed, ezcept the amount received from the earn· It ie a stliking fact, ings of the people of Canada.
to which I wish just here to Mil the atuntion of the Rouae, that the amount that is now being paid into tbe eavinge banks of the Dominion of Camu!.a every month is nearly UOO,OOO over and above the snlD8 witbdrawn, and has been fllct that 1 It is an important so for the last three yean.
in the three years and fonr am able to etate here, monthe ending OD the let February, there were depoeited in the a8Yi.ngs banke' and in the Poet Office savings banks of Canada, notwithetanding that the Government did not want all thie money, and had illdeed.
made regulatione to be reeeived in the savings by which the amount banks ehollld be reduced from '10,000 to '3,000, that no inureetebould be paid fur the montb in which the monoy w.. deposited or withdrawn, &0 BIt really to diecourage depoeita-that notwithstanding that, the amount ofdeposiUi in the three years and four months in th8lle inetitntions has increaaed.
over and above the sume withdrawn '10,000,000 and npwards, and in the banD of the country they have increued daring the eame period '26,(01),000 and upwards, making aD incre88& in depoeit, ofthe earnings of the people of tbil countl'f in the banks of tbe Dominion and tbe savinge baDka In that time of 136,000,000 and upward&.
And this, while we are investing in uianufactOl'iee and otber indnetl'iee of tho connuy large sums of money, whilo we al'e sonding onr money to Manitoba and the North·W8IIt and invoeting it tbere, while the pe0 ple of Canada have ioveeted in the IRet three monl·he 13,000,000 in the bonds of tbe Caoadiao Pacific Railway, 1l1ill, notwithetanding thie increased demfllld, we find that depoeita over 13ti,OOO,OOO.
No better evidence could be given of the prOflper ityofthe country than thie, and 1 eay, and I hope to prove it before I get through, that tbis is largely due, &8 I etated at the ontset, tothe policy, theNational Policy, whioh waeadopt ed ill 187~, Now, Sir, I know that, in dealing with figure8, and 1 have not, rather dry one, the enbject perhape, made myseU as clear as 1 wonld doeire; but the l88t year, having stated briefty tbe expenditure for and estimated income for the current year, and the pro~'ahle income and expendi· turefor the nextyear--I deeire to eay a few words with refor· ence to the predictione that were made on the opposite eide I think, of lhe RODRO when thie policy W88 introduced.
if my memory them have serves me, failed, and utU!J'ly failed.

Now, Sir, I pl'ocood to euhmit testimony in jWltiftcation of myetatem(lnt.

I know it is a lItrong otalement.

It ie going a great length l(l eay that they have all failed.

They certainly hove fAiled to a very great extent, and 1 may lIay.

aoci I repeat, that practically they have all failed.
Wbo.t were the etatemente that were made when thi, pol~cy was introdnced f One of thel'll Will, expenditnre increased income, all of period have that that and the to in ie a Sir L.cK.&.B.D.Tn.ur.

to for imports In 1881, e:xportod, the gro8!l tho value in tbat year, balance of $91,737,740.
of consnmption, The imports that it wn.. calculntoo to interfere with the h'ade between the D"minion of Canada and Great Brim:n, thnt the policy wall OIlO that wall in the interesUi of the United 8t:lt08 rather than that of GI'Ollt Britain, and therefore the feeling in the parent land.

would ~ one of groat diesatisfaction with the Dominion of Canada, and tbe result would be damaging to our crlldit, Sir, time !

!Olvee many quelltions, and it has 60Ived thie.


I have in my haild 0. comparative stal8ment-1 have selected tho year 1817, because tho imports forconeumption to that of 1881. than that of any are nearel', other yoar I could find under the old Tariff-from which I find that imports for consumption in 1816-77 were '96,~UO,-t83.

Deduct from tbat the United StaUS breadstuffe '4,562,000, included in the loMee that a from Great Britain in that year were 139,572,239. or 43 per cent.
of the whole impol·tt1; from the' United S\..o.te8, '.Ur.

'l46,'l36, or 51 per cent.

; and from other oonntriee, '5(118,765, or 6 the importe from Great .uritain were, per cent.

$43,683,808, or 48i per cont.

of the whole, against 43 per cont.

in 1876-77; from the United Stat.es, '36,'i04,112, or iO per cent., againet 51 pOl' cent.

in 18'j0·77; and from other '1l,323,684, or Itl per cent.

; mtlking n tolal of countries, '91,611,604, againat '91,737,740, in 1876·77.
These fi.S(UI-e8 show an inoreaeeof imports from Grellt Britain ofU,011,569, a decrease of imports from the United Statee ofllO,042,li24, and an incre88B of imporl:8 fl'Om other countriee of that 08labli~hoe most clearly and 15,904,916.

NlIw, Sir, the laet Se811ion &greet!

with the evidence snbmitted at very lar~e been a tbat of Parliament, from Great Britain relative incr8H8e in the from the Uoited during 1879 ~tatC8.
that such would be the C86B, because the manufactori68 thit the Government ezpected to eetablish in Canada by means of the Tariff, were those the prodncts of which we bad previously largely imported from the United Statee.
It wae not with any ill-feeling toward our neigh· bore that this Tariff W88 established; bnt we were naturally gratified when we fonnd that the policy we had introduced, to oIl:ive additional employment to onr own people, would inter fere lese with tbe industriee and intereeta of Great Britain than with thOflO of the United Stales.
Such has been the roouJt., and wo thull have the answel' to the fOlir that was ex preeeed, that the Tal'iff in its operation w'Juld affect oar trade with Great Britain more than that witb the United Statee.

Sir, it was, lhat under tbe operation of a Tariff that imposed a dnty upon breooBtuffe, the forwarding trade between the United Stah)8 and .Europe vid t~e St. Lawrence would be diminished.

Well, 1 woe able -IGIlt S68!IioD to bring moot conclusive evidenco to show that it.had not prodnceJ tha~ effect.
the two years o.er It wae atated by there wu anothor e(af..ement made; the Government has imporUi tbere thOBe in Mr. MACKF..NZIE.

What a~tlt lut S8880n 1.

Sir LEONARD T'ILLEY.

1 am going to give yoa the figuree for three years, and I will 6180 speak of last e6lUlon.

foreign Hr.

MACKENZIE.

Give U8 last 86a&On.

Sir LEONARD TILLEY.

graio exported.


I qllote from the Trade and Navigation Returns for the 1t"'Jt ave ]"oars, and I will eho"," tbat it was not the Tariff that caueed the reduction laet e08 In 1876·77, converting llour into bushels of grain, tbe eon.

amount of from Canada was in 1877-78, tbe expol·!.4 were 8,521,590 6,565,lM bushels; bushele; in they were 8,771,380 busbels; 1879.80, 11,808,019 bnsbelsj and in 1888-81,12,143,720 buehels, or for the three years, f!
'Om 1876 to 1879, an avel'l\go of 7,964.7l1 bWlhels, before the· difficultiee 8aid to be raised by the Tadff could have e:xisted, wbile in the two years after theduty w.. impoeed upeo breadstuff., the averago waa 11,976,000 btteheill.

Now, my hon.

friend (Mr. Mackenzie) in 187l'!-79, 1882, COMMONS DEBATES, 87 be 2:-1 tho thnt II bout to tllat \VR8 duo, the oxtent, tho Jilfel'er.l ("coL, Baltimoro [gi\'o tho;o tigures :t8k8 what about Illd :"e~L.~on.
Anci' tho opening of nlwig:t. ~ 00 founu thai, if l'lnr section h:tg 10 comjllain, it iii not tho lion-or :Iftel' July-there \V;I:i a falling off, but.

Wh:lt '''a~ the .

~ma\lcr Pro\·inc{'~.

anti on !>chalf of Ivl:om the "ymp:l (':\11;;(' orit?

Thero IVIU:'I ucero:lllcd ox port from Ih" Uuite-J l'l'r"cL SltllO:ll)(')rts utll"ing th:t.t podOll.
At Yew York thtlro wll"a' hla Loon II complll'nliv6 ,"euuction ntlhcr than 1m increase flllling oIT of 22 pol' 'rheo, cellt., Phil:l\h:lpbia -10 pol' ceot., nml I~'>ilton.

\vhich w:t.'!

the II Sir, \'1'6 wero tol,1 thut thi", T;lri,r would be 0PJlloc.-si\"o to 1\ IlJwe.~L, 1 think, f)()m~thing like 16 pOl'tent, MOl'O tlmn tcrl:lin ~ection oj tbo Dominion of G:II.
:J,dlL b,r the imposition th:\l ,hcloc W:l~ wh:!t seMom occu~ 'fbcl'O \\'Il~:l rinK whicb 'of:l tluty on co:\I, w·bilo it would d" no ::oud what~\"er to hat.!
been in CXl.itenco fOl' 1.\"0 ye:l.",i by whi"h the gl':J,ill INo\-a &:oti:lo or Othcr portion$ of tho Dominion \vhcI"o thero tl':lilo of Chil':lgo wall controlletl, :\nil \\"hich kcpt ull pril:cs, Inro lIu'go co:!1 ilop<lo>its, When I \\":111 a...ked by an hon, :J,ntlthi" I'ing 8tipulah..'<i with tho railw3)" cornpnnic", 811ch I gentlcman oPl)OSitein 1~79 wbat.inCI'e:1i8of thocoUliumption l'nlC,\ which h:l.d the effect of "ondin~ tbe _trado by INo,"a Sooli:!.
cO:t1 by the Op<!l"&lion oi' t.he TnrilT, I "tated wa.

", the oompolition among tho ro.

'1dri, fIll' Inrgely I'oouccd 01' whAt dcm:Uld tho Go\"CI'llment e:mccted to CI'Cale for ller I of tbeir taxation ullllor the 0I.crtLlion of Ihi", Tal"ilT.

thie:t of this HOllllO wt!ro in\'oke!l; fur tho pl'3ttical to tho f:!<:t h:ld It was not duo Slato~ they would be knocking at thnlil will,f;nr to thnt ex~ent.
lho fear, cX)lre'h\:d by ollr n"icnJs Qpposile Mr, ANGLIN, And di.~placo Amel'jean conI w:lr of ~uw York rather tlI:a.n by tho St. Lawl'cncc, I t.b:l." Ill'Obably within a short timo the commmption of No\"a it w;le to those o:\ceptional eircllmslall<:CiI, OIlpcci;llly tho I Scot.ia crol in tho Dominion of Cl\n:ld:l woulJ.
i ncrcase to the reduction oftbo expol'te of United St:l.lo::l "rnin, thal th" f:IU-1 extcnt of '100,000 tOM, in~ olf of ueady 3~ porcent" lUI compllt,e3 with tho provion.. p:l&!ed I ye!U'.

plOOUCO of United to throu,'h ill bond find ~hippcd in hand at ]lOl'l~'"of the Dominion, lbat tbe St, Lnwl'(llll'lO tl':IJ.O would be ditoinitlhed by the change ItI.
'\nJJ;l!lnO:l't I W:I.~, With I'cfe~onco to lh~ offcct ,of Ihl.~ in tho tisc:l1 policy, ha~ not beeu r('alizeJ, Now, Sir, the ooxt ul,jcelioll theil' own 1f!llguRgO, th"l tho Tnt'ilf would dl>lmcm!k:I' VOlt"', How w~ it 10 ,Iismomool' tho Uni"n?
Sir LEOXARD TILLEY, Yes, r did; "to a VCl'Y large to ..how OXI~llt" I I4tlid; 01', ifit \vill pl~aso the bon,gcllLlcma,n mOre, I lbtl not "uPI~so, ~Ir, ~P~~k7I': Inl'lll, ~hnt In thrco yCllrll, by the 1nCI'eU8e~ Indu~tl'lc~ anti by the 1'l1i~C11 by hon, gentlemcn oppooite wall, illl1nc~'(lnScd demand ~Ol' 61cnm [xl\\'er, It would mallO, a Jem~n" rcq.ullo O~CI' 400,UOO tons to l~e6t It; bu~ \VO Jlcc:\Il~e, I finu thut theso tIIdUSlt'1Cl; h:IVIl been" gl'OWlIlg tl.p aU OVOI' It h:lS reqult'ed moro nli~enl, nnd the doc)i11 of tbe, hns al,;o ('nu.~ a ,largely mcrc:ascd :lmount to be Impol,tcd :t~ tho}' al1e"cd that tbe imposition of the I\ew Turitf would Itl,e country to l'illeh :w extClit inl'I~II:>e th~ t:{x:ltion of ccrtain of the f1m:lIlor Provinl.:l.
'lI, a.nd tI,:ll Dominion, dOI1l:l.ndillg tu be rclievtlll "f th\: lIurdcnll impclSC..od i C.'01II th.t UmteJ Slnl(\::j :as well, 111'011.

tho.

:l1l by the opcr:ttio~... of lilat Tarilf, 01' permi8-~ion I to Withdraw froUl pUl"pooWli of compa\'i8011 the t.wo ProvincOli of Qucbec and tbe g:ClCldg consumed in Olltariu-for a laloge portion of I kno,," some of It reacbed Cobourg.

the Port of Mont.real-and place Ontal'iu aro ontered at Mr, MACKENZIE.

H ..~w much?
H ..~w much?

togethor tho Provincee of Now nl'uQ8wiek and Nova Scoti:l., bl'cnUMl "!,!evr, nl'lln8Wick l'eceiv~ from the wostel'n ~rtion Sir Lf:ONARO TILLEY.

T know Ihat., bcc:lu'lO I ll.

'\Vf It WM 800 toile I think they of NovaSootlaalal'ge part ofbcrnaturnl produCUi, while the merch:lolil of St. John supply largely tho m?rch:mts of t~e t",IJ 100 thoy had purch3:lod from ~o\'a Scotia, :md I heard the UUlo)D. Lot U;j place togolhur fG,' I th:lt cool W:I::I di..triLulcd iu tbo othor P.·OVill{~? "
\~C8tel'll p.'\rt .of Nova &:otla, the rovenuo bo,lng collected "Ill Ithnt dOme Nova Scotia coal Vf:I!!

fUI'ni::lbed to a factory in .\11', M.\GJi"EXZIK Willlhil b'Ill, g:cl1t1om:tn"tntc whcre ~eVf BrunswIck, and pilld ~y the con~umor In Nova &;otln, King"ton, nnd it wac docl:l~'od to be tho cheapest.

ooallor If)'uU t,~l,o Ibc~ two PrOVinces tClgetbel' :lond tho Provinces 18te :l 1ll pUl'po.se,,; :md :It Guolph, aho; 1 am told lbol'C wac ofUnl:lI'IO ulld.

(.luoboo lflgcthor, wlmt do wc, fin~?


That ]lSOmo ('OIl~ullleJ, Out thl!ro i-'llbitl on rlltxll'c.I: dint ill 1877, nndlll' tho Tal'llt of the hOll, gcnllolllen OPIX!HIO'T thcl'~ w:~s 757,000 lon8 01' co,d was mir:cd in lho minOfl of ~"ovu Seotin ; 18~'O.

oollecl~J loli cen':8 pcr h~ad fol' Clletolll~ In NovlI St'otUl.

in 1878, and Now Bl'UlL8WIC1" dUt'tng tho@o five y~Ill"', mOI'e than l,u3:?,7iO tonllj ltllJ.

in IS31, 1,llG.248 tona; and to be au,let!


to that, thol...llfM in lll'iti-'lh Columbia, 214,2,13 tone, again8t "':61'0 collected f10m lhe penple of Onwl'lo !lod Qu,oboc.

Now t:nko up tho last ~I'?do Returne, and sec what 1::1 the 14\54~ toilS in 1878, 01''' tol.

'll of 916,145 ton8 in 1818, lJ:..~tlOn of tbu DOW Tlll'lfl, fnl'!

'8 the poop!o of tho~ againet a pl'odnclion in 1881 of l,3J3,.

'i91 tone, being an in.


rovlOce~ al'ol concerned, and )'OU Will find the dlffel"once In CI'(ll\.~00f417 '}46tonll pel' annum ~ Sir L~O~AR"O TIf.LEI.

that\ 400,IIUO tons fl'Om, tlio Nu\"n Scotia in 187L1, 78S,:nl ton~; in I rannot now My wherl', but it.

goillg into a.lactory ther1!, the which woultl i10,liO:f tOile; I h:lt •,.

, .

the amount ofexJlort In cach ofthOl'O reare?

Sil' LEO~A.RD TILLloJY, To the United SbtOll Mr, .MACKr~NZ1E" Will tbe hon, gentleman now slate ie that, in~tcl\d of being 14!
cents in the lo;,t two ye:lI'!f exCe&l, it islltl'gely below the amouut tbnt hllB boen paid by Ontario ond l.luebec.

The hon, gClltlemnn opposite (.llr.

Anglin) Cllljlll his hllnd~, nnd I tim vel'y glud ho i8 pl"oscd ",ith auch rellul18.

We mu~[ toke ieto coneidel'ulion that in just about t,he !

'i.

'\me" lSi'9.8IJ tho population of Novo.

&'Oti/\ :Ind Nc\v BI'nnawick Plljd into tho Tl"(!llSnrr " ooll8idel'4blo f1um of money in the 8hapo oflinty 00 the 8ugnr thcy con.nmo.!
lind l'clinC'll in AlontrMI, but., Juring the Il~nt renr, t1mL hM b-_'Cn l'(,v~r:K'd.

nod the lablcli will hho,*, time foJr- thili J'1'00l.

W31tl, t~al th?

I'efil:enl of Nova Scotia ~nJ th \So of Now Brun~wlCk, Will PIlY to the CtliJtome omcnde of lh~e two P~VIn(,es a large sum of monlJY for ~oo<J.,t con"nmcd in On-I tarlO "nt.!

QUllbec,Rnil, thcrefore, makiog o\'eryallow::r.nce fOr tho Ullli(l;l tho Lowl.

"l' Pro\"incoo upon the :lrticlCll that f11'O JluI'chaM'l1 I r<om 0",.'
\VI inMtelltl of having 1111 inju!

'iClus olfoct ;ll'on Novtl Scotia lIud ' New BI'Ull"wi('k it hnil had a benellci:ll offect tb~ comp:w:l.ti\"l,l tuxllIion, nnd it hae hall ° lItil1 mOl"O bene· I Sir 1Jl~OYARO TILLEY.
id in ftclal eftccl OD the Pro'l'incl,l of.Prinee Edward hl:1nd, It willi flloro for ue thOll, Thel'o IVas anothol' vel'y grave objection that would han been I"-'lid by lhe peolJle of M nu ~STP.R • d 'h "h'· T' tho same, Ie-wing the C<)1\"llIoplion in tho D.>n:r.inion of C:l.oaJa, increa..'"Ci1 lIy that prupol"tioo, ., tho Finance \\ CI'O It 1I0t for lhe ab.

!elloo of the Idlanu ld h id Ion tons of :UI ave " Some hon, MBMBP.RS, Ordor, Mr, srF.AJn~u.

Order.

Mr.

~rA.CKt:o.:N7.[E.

To nil qn:lrtoNl?

jll!


!t Sir LEO:iARD TILLEY.

.\II', DUYS1'''~H Mr, Spe.

'lker mi -ht 1_ ,'ff IMlllktl.ll' l"lJ;h~, in rooucing lmCl'On:«l.

It onl), IIhowa whnt 'Q c.,·, ne.....,.

", I to put "II" 'I \V:l}" Wll WIlU 1:1 OVOI' a rnl ,JIlve a rig It IOO,tlOO I.On8, ·,1 b ' ,10 fill" , nu"1 it was I\bout h i::l 1.."11 I ,oun I 1 " ,'" T 811 "" g '.

II ~ I) I , , ' ' T 88 COMMONS DEBATES.

FEBRUARY 24, I be had tho.t, lakon levied rovClJuo return?
1600,000 laid on the Table the Tariff, of 1877. llnd farmers eupply; on imported tilt under the ex-Finance Minister the ad vo'orem dllty llhould refined Illlgll~ being much lo'i!!

place, rerhlifJs ju~tified is w'H~n "'-0 Ill'O\'iJe I th:lt 011 tbo Wll.i the dlffel'en~ oj 25 ecole per lO~ 100. brought lo,this policy, and thaI w:t~.

that when we impofl&lll and sold tbe /lug.ar,here.

Still I admit that ~ regardagrann.

latod IlUg"~, omlnlng.
~he profit8 of the mldd~emoD, thOl'O :loll MJiti0n:11 ,IUly til on sugar refilled in lIoy ('OIlI1II'y that rho yellow gr'auted :l. b;lunty-lh:l.l impol·tntion of eug:u' from any (:~lUlItry that g~nlcd a than It could have bileD I have now a bouuty, tllo duty-paid nloo of 8ul:h SlI":l.r, nnd when we in· c....:fully pNlpal'ed return shOWing lb~ values during two cr611!ed tbo duly on r.\W ~ug:lr 5 "'per cenl., no.j tho duty pel'i(X.1.1 in each month in New York aod M.ontro:!I, deduct.. on rcfir.Cll aUb'1l.r 10 pel' C('nt.
bon.

geot~emen opposite 8:lid in~ the dra~bAck ~nd addin~ 30 ceota per, cwt.

as the upeose thiit wa'l an outmgcnU:i proreOOillg, that the 10';& to the oflmportatlonj thl8cal~ulatlondoelnot Include 60 ceots pel' J),lminioo of C:lo:ld:l m:gbt bo eounted at lout by IllDillioo cwt.

profit on ~Dsachona bctw~n.

the Now York refioor :!nd !bo CI\narhan oonaumerg i /.
!Ivang the conaumers the of dolhnl-$OOO,OOO to SI,OOO,OOO-and it would be beHor, a::a.iJ our frienJa of the 0f'P~;tion, to tako all tho mon that benefit of thatnl80, tbere WI\'!

&t11l7 eental088cbargcd to the would .boemployed in tho.

;a refinel·ie.

'l, p,'oposed t~ bc 'put ioto JXoplo of C&l.nadll.

00 that line of sugl\l"I t~an ,if it b~ been 0Pf!ratlon,anJ boord.

tbem ala botol and pay tbolr bill, tban Imported from ~uw Yorlc, unJor .the old fal'lffi adding tbe to mtroduce thill poltcy.
Now, what al'6 tbe f:lcta th:lt have pro6ta of tbe m:ddlemon, the 88vlng was 51 conta per 100 1h8, i and, witb ro8pect to otber 1'66netl au~ars the dilfel'6oco devoloped during the80 lallt few Jear~?

LalIt year, I tbink, inti.

waa mucb ",I·oater.

Aa far as tbe I'evonue Ie concerned, tbore cel'taiuly tbe yeM before, mateJ lhat we wouM 1086 $900,OOJ of revenue; and tho baa been 00 lOllI!, and 1800,000 ·...eN\ probably expended in :l public din.
Canada in relininQ; augaf'll, in froigbla, and in COfIt of coal.

luader of tbo Opj.osition ISh ted, hel'e and o.l explained this ner in Toronto thut, undor the opol'ntion of this policy, we Who.t have we io vel'y the effect of estab fully ll&tlt yoal', and showed \vbat loat dUI'illg tho Y0:ll'l\ 187:)-KO 86UO,000 or l'evonuo, lind tbat tho pooplo of C:madu paid $6 ;0,000 io increAsed price for lillhing refineries had been.

There llro now omployed 1,000 the sug:\!'


wbieh tbey consumcd, 80 tho.t tbo- sugar m'Jnopoly, hands in tbo (I11ne au!ar refineries, or ),100, including tbose 0.1 he tllrmod it, eMt tbo people vf tbe Dominion of Caoa<.la directly connected with tbe beet root sugar induiltry.

Tb086 1I,:WO,IlOO ll.

re:'lr.

I 6t:ltod in my f,lo.ce in the Hou,"" last mon.

m08tofwbom bavefo.milio8, require food, elothing, tene to that bon.
gllnt eman, whon he 83id a meoL'l, llod everYlbing that the mercho.nts, maoufaeturere, SC911ion ill o.O:iwor that lOllS thOBO mol'.

are employod io tbis of the country at remunerative wo.ges, whel"Oll8 they would have tile I'l.

'turn" hon.

geont1em:ln in m,lkillg tho statoment, becll.use tber remO\'ed to another couotly if it hat!

Dot been for the policy "howo..l io the ye-'Ir 1880, tbero had boon ,600,00'0 that rebuilt tboee indualriee nnd placed tbem in motioo.
Il'8i of roronne colloct.oo.l from sligar than in 1879; but I Then we bave 400,000 toos of coal railMld from tho mines of employment poilltr<1 Ollt that tho l'eVOllUO colh.

"Ctoo in 1879 w:u 8300,000 Nova Scotia, 1,000 git;in,lo'\" 1lI<)rt1 thall it would h:m:J been, if they IllW.!
not importe..l io men-60,OOO tons of tbo 400,000 tons lUereA80 in the produ\}tion of J:lnUar)', Fobrull.ryaod .llt\rcb.boforo tboTuriffwt\8 changf'd the Nova Scotia minOll being used in thoy u...unll; '1000,000 worta tho relining of augar.

Thus employment W&ll giveu to the tbere would minel'~, a marlcet ","liS alfo.lrded to the COllI owners, buinelll!l impol·ted io th&e tbfl~o montll!

j tbe WI.!
j tbe WI.!

provided for ve88819 and railwaye,60,000 tone of V088O!e not hl\Ve beon nn apparent boing employed in conveying raw augar from tbe West 1300.000 had been creJltet1 to that yoar; and, tbat from the rcturu!t IndiOll to different ports of the Dominion, aomethiog like 90 collected fiscal per cont.

of the wbole coming direct to Canada, i08tead of 6 for yeo.r, it w~ clel\l' tbut tbe revenue to 1>0 rrooived durin •• that pol' cont.

aI!I in 1878.
aI!I in 1878.

Employment was al80 giveo to coopers, year would be c'lnal to, if not above, that collocW i~ any and, io one 8ection of tbe country I viRited, tbe timber nlViOU8 J oar.

Wbo.t 110.<i been thtl rc.... lt?

Tbo figul'G'I that on tile hind had inereased in value becaWMI of the demand Y am now qllotil'l~ CIUl be found ill the Tral10 :lnd Navigatiun for tho particular wood usod for sugar eMU.
Evorywbel't'l, n\llul'O~,alld thuy IIhowtbi~: thaldul'ing the ltL'It year wo paid in tbo extenHion of tude, increased macbinery was reqnired into the TreulIlll'y fol' .lutiC1 on lIugal', 1154,910 mOl'6 tban tho nnd in operatinn, and o.ddit,onal employment waa given to avel'age fur tho fi\'e 'yOIlI'" previvu~, and undel' tho'I'uitf of lIun, gootlomen opposIte are aware t.bat ooe I uf tbe roflneries ball not, 80 far, boon a financialeuCCOllll i if it tho bon.
m:uJE', lind IIhowiog tbtll, ad rar 118 tbo pr080nt Tat'iff is con.

had not been for that the Moocton relinery would bave boon It will, however, give ct'rned, there ill no los~, 01' compal'otivel,Y no 10811, of I'avenue, quoted 88 paying enormous profits.
because if we add 1600,000 to the value of the augar imported, the ex-Fin&l.oCe Ministel' tbe opportunity of repeating that and tbat '800.000 ill l'ilpl·e.lented by freight from the West all th080 eslablillbmentB will become fal1uroe wben, by tbeir Indi08, the 111.001' in the re6ncrie8, coal consumed, iot.ereet 00 iocre8&tt, competition becomes keen, and 1018 would acero.. Clpillil and otbf'.l' 8JCpenditures, and you add 43 per cent.
If our poliey alood alone on this duty collected in the ytlar 1876-77 on the sugar imported, question oj su'rar refiniog, whicb ie announced .. a buiP witb tbe llum~ named added, then it would ollly give 140,000 monopoly, I ~old that Lbe filets I have given atrord an more than we collected Ia,,;t year.

There ie the fact to the statement and the foars expressed with tbat an8wer $154,000 more w~re received durinJ( the last year tban the rOllpeeL to tbia matler.

Now, Sir, it WlL8 alleged tbat thi.


average of the five ye.f'll previouJl; 80 much with regard to Tariff WGuid fail either as a revenne-producing Tariff, or .. the antieipated 1088 of rev:ooue.

A few WOrdll witb reepect a protective Tariff, Wbat e.idenCtl bave we that hoo.

gen· to tbo consumcr.

When I mad.

the tie men oppo~ite were miibokeo 00 that point?


Thero are to tbe onet of sugar lrom v:\rioul w.y~ of88Cert3ining the increaee of imlnatnOll UI th_ lAdt linaocial atll.tement comparative eft'ect of tbe TarilY.. Tbe one wbieh ~ will now pr'086nt ia to re~il\blo.
8Ources, a pnC08 III New York and MOTltro:.lI, when we liad two 8how how lhe quaotIty of raw matorlal consumed by manQ~ reflneri6l\ prieM or graonlated augar w.el'e con('eI'D.at!, it appeared that tbo:i6 paid by the consumOI'8 In tbe Domlllioo were 25 cen18 per 100 lbe.

more than they would blVe hoeo if tbe flugaf'll had been imported uoder the Tarilfof 1877-78; but I might have added, as t pror1086 to add now, that that calcul:ltion did not take ioto ael.
;ount tbe profit8 of importel'll, the middle- men, between the Now York reliners and the men who bougbt the facturel'!

bas increaaod 8ioce the adoption of thil Taritr.

It baing Six o'clock, tbe Speaker len the Chair.

further laid on tbe Table of tho 1'0vE'nu~ ,ltentlomen opp'>8ite, ju~tifying tbo IItntement to tboet!

engaged in them.

return showing tho los8 of 1600,000 if 8is: moothi\ of thno 80 that I alated tho.t, bat!

obtained, in op6nation.

to, porbaps, sugar m'lro the pooplo.


far as ye&f that fil'8t the .. of I Sir LJ:OKAaii TtLLU.