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158 HOUSE OF COl\:LMONS.

from the Imperid legislation on this sub ject, with some motlification.

He thought it was only proper to mention that the que:;tion had been raised as to the consti tutionality of this [~ct.

I t had been stated that som; provisions, at any rate, "\vhich he desil'i3d to embody in the Act, were ra,ther in the scope of Locd than of Dominion legislation.
He understood, though he had not had an opportunity of the communicating ",rith himself, Atto:mey-General of Ontario had expressed the opinion that legislation on this subject dlOUld be initiated in this House.

The Bill was read a first t tme.

that FELO:'\lES A~D }rnSDEMEA~OURS.

Mr. :McDOUGALL (East Elgin) moved fe)l' le;:tve to introduce a Bill for the more :-;peec1y trial in certain cases of persons charged with felonies and misdemeanours ill the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec.
:Mr. SPEAKER said the han.

member had not giyen the necessary notice of his motion.

l'he motion V;,lE, alloweJ to stand as a notice.

THE BUDGET.

Hcl.

~Il'.

CART'VRIGHT, in moving T:lO House into Committe':.'

of Supply, f;:tid : - interest,' after Mr. SPEAKER,-It is alw3.
"s a matter of ar::.y· considerable f,OlllC dmnge, have l,een made in the tariff to ('xamlne lJo,\y they have affected the year in v,'hieh tlwy occurred or succeeding ones; H1l3 p'olahly on the present occasion ~ome\,·l:".t more than usual interest may be atbchell to that subject, hecause those the House knows, were of changc'~~, t1.3 It will ut!ler an imporbmt character.

~:lsn b~ :my duty, on the pre.

'3ent occasion, to gi \'e the HO~lse some explanations with re.
;:ud to the loan negotiated last J nne il1 London, and I propose to t::tke :tl1vallta~e of this occasion to briefly review the the country, aud to explain the mode which the GO'\'ernment be adopted to meet the very serious obliga tions in which we are invoh·ed.

Now, Sir, in HOUSB pos3ession of the Public Accounts since the first days of the Session, a.nd as the Estimates do not require, I hope, any very financial position ~of think ongH to gel~eral heen time to enable hon.

members to grcl.
members to grcl.

'.t understand them, I shall p!

'oceed without the bas as AIr.

Moss.

further preface to briefly review the cOlldition of the financial year ending 30th of June, 1874.

Perhaps for convenience it may be as well, instead of adopting the somew·hat cumbrous form of "1873-74," to say when hereafter I refer to any year, "I mean the financial year terminating on 30th June,in the Jear named."

Now, Sir, if hon.
Now, Sir, if hon.

gentlemen will refer to that page of the Public Accounts containing a com parative statement of the receipts and expenditures from the commencement of Confederation to the present time, they will observe that in the expenditure for 1874 a total sum is set down of no less than $23,316,000 in round numbers, being an excess of about $4,140,000 over the It expenditure of the year preceding.

will be well that I should enurherate the causes ,vhich have led to that very large These, MI'.
and remarkable increase.

SPEAKER, placed in round numbers before the House, are as fo1101YS : In the first place, an augmentation took place in the charges on intf'.rest on deht to the extent of In the next phce, owing to $500,000.

the admission of Prince Edward Island into the U nioll, our annual charges were increased Dearly $600,000.
The assump the Provincial debt, and the tion of in snbsidy granted to New Brunswick, lien of export duties on timber, amount together to 6850,000, while the additional expenditnre incurred for the proper main tenance of the railroad system of the Dominion involved no less a sum than "\Vhile I urn on this subject I $900,000.
may as well state that the Government hcn~0 carried out, as they declared they wou1\.1, during last Session, tIle policy of charging to Income Account everything that properly belongs to the maintenance of the;:;e railways.

On this subject I may h:we something to say fLlrther on, but for shall content myself by the pl'esent I merely adverting to the circumstance.

increases, Then there were increase3 of indenmity to members, and similar character, other which required $400,000.
The item of elections involved an expenditure of nearly The North West MouIited $200,000.

Police, ~200,000; Indians, and similar purposes, $100,000; Post Office, $300,000, and various othel' miscellaneous charges, $200,000, making a total of $4,250,000, which represents, and a little exceeds the increase to 'v'hich I have called attention.

sLlhjects of a statutory FEBRUARY 16, 1875.

]59 it that have tariff.

SPEAKER, to ma,ke increase, Mr. increase, as I tion of the tariff.
from which our the Boundary Survey.

that I should mention, Of the House will' observe that -Turning to the other that perceive is a mere cross entry, which, ported into this is proceed, Sir, to give to the House, seriatim And this specially noteworthy, because, as the House the proof of the accuracy of these state will see the great portion of it is in what ments.
The one to which most attention is called statutory charges, over which the will probably be directed is the statement House has no further control, and for made by me that there would be a consi future derable deficit last year, but for the altera which this Government and all Governments' will If the House will look side, at these statements-I allude to the com provision.
the parative statement of receipts and expe~ the House will from all sources amount diture-the House will observe'that in the total receipts to $24,200,000 j' being an increa:se over two main items real the preceding year of $3,400,000 ; leav- revenue is chiefly derived,-eustoms and ing, therefore, a nominal balance of $880,- excise,-there is an increase for 1874 of It no less than $2,550,000 in rounel numbers.

000 to the credit of the past year.
shall presently may be as well however, that in this nominal balance are show, no less than two millions of dollars, one of $166,000 are directly attributable to the operation included two sums, received from Ordnance lands, which was of the recent In turning to the paid late ill the year, and is to be treated Trade and N ayigation returns for the past the as a casual rather than an ordinary item year, of revenue; and another of $45,000, which total volume of imports into this country was returned us by the British Goyern- was a little less for 1874 than it was for together with a, much 1873, the exact figures being $127,500,000 ment, but which, larger sum, will have to be defrayed from for 1873 as against $127,400,000 for 1874. the expen~iture of the current year on Now, Sir, if the Housewillfm'ther turn In to what are blO'\ltn as dutiable goods,im ,account of fact, country during thoRe strictly speaking, should not have appeared years, they will find that the total volume in our fj,occounts at· all.
The net balance, of dutiable goods imported into the country against therefore, according to my computation in from revenue sources, amounts to about $71,409,000 imported in 1873, being .an $650,000.

Now, sir, I propose to devot-e apparent difference therefore in fayour of a short time to explaining somewhat in the past yevor of $4,800,000, in round,num From this sum is to be deducted, in detail.

the effect of the recent tariff changes bers.

the sum of $400~000, in creating this revenue.


'into imports House will remember that.

in my Budget being speech last year I made these several Manitoba four per cent.

tariff, and therefore involving so small a. statements: I stated to the House that unless it consented to impose considerable sum of money that it in no degree affected there would bea the real comparison.
Of the remaining additional serious deficit between the expenditure four and a-half millions excess, or appa and the revenue for rent excess of dutia.ble goods, ,ahoutone said also that if the sums estimated for by and one-half millions are due to the admis Mr. TILLEY were to have been expended sion of Prince Edward Island into the last year in additi()ll to what we knew was Union;' and of the remaining t~ee about to be expended, the Estimates for millions, one and one-h:1lf millions were; the year, 1874 would have amounted' to caused directly by the removal from.the $24,100,000.
to free-l,ist, under tJre recent tariff, o'fcertain the House goods, as anyone can see on examination the best· of my judgment, must make a of the tables ; and the remaining one and temporary pause in, the advance in our one-half millions was anticipated'inc<:m imports, and particularly our dutiable-im- expectation that new' ports; but I added if the House were duties would be imposed, and was, ,in fact, borrowed from 'the revenue of 1875 willing to give to the Government in advance to make up for the deficiency supplies they demanded, those-supplies would be ample, not only to of 1874.
My allegation is, therefore, that of the sum of $2,550,000, the "excess meet present expenditures, but to make I shall i 1. customs and excis3, no le33 thJ.

"J, $2,OJ~))- provision'for o~ future liabilities.

the I had no doubt 1874 was $76,232,000 as I dare say the the the past year.

sequence of first place its mind taxation, of the excess stated under that, also, the the for up I I Hon~ Hr.

Oartwright.. 160 HOUSE OF COMMONS.


choose for importance, for least two or three years, to $44,400,000, as against in the first place, $900,000, and the House will 000 are due directly to the new tariff, the estimate of the SUllliI expended in Public difference of $550,000 being accounted for Works chargeable to income falls short of partly by the admission of Prince Edward that estimated by Mr TILLEY, by no less a Island, and partly by the regular increase sum than $624,000.
The House is also which might have been expected in the probably aware that the sum of $250,000 Excise Department.
Now, Sir, although I demanded by him for working the Inter do not regard this point as one of very colonial Railway was not expended, and great the simple reason the further sum of $40,000 on account of tJ;at the taxation was imposed not so much boundary survey is not charged in last to meet a deficit in the year then nearly year's account, although the money has expired, as to provide for future engage- actually been expended, and will have to ments, it may be as well to give some still be paid this year to the British Govern further corroborative proofs of tllat pre- ment.
These three sums combined exceed therefore vious assertion.

Now, compare to if the see that I was within the mark, and not we importations eight months above it, when I stated to the House that the ending the 28th February, 1873, with the those estimates would not exceed $24,100, same time of 1874 before the llew tariff 000 on the presumption stated by me.
to my further state had any effect on the importations, we N ow, with respect 8hall .find the total of dutiable imports for ment that there was a strong probability 1873 amount that there would be a pause in the volume :ii\4:5,576,000 for 1874, being a difierence of the general imports of this country for in favour of 1874 of $1,170,000 in round at the House IlUllibers, almost all of which is due to the need only turn to the TracIe and N aviga tion Returns to see that that statement admission of Prince EJward Island.
Or taking l11101,he1' form (If proof.---;-Take the has been literally verified.

The total ten days' statements of the money paid volume of trade fo-;.'

1873 amounted to into the exchequer from the first to the $127,500,000.
The total volume of trade tenth of April, and from the tenth to the for 1874, even remembering tha,t Prince tv,-entieth of April, of 1873 andlS74,and we Edward Island is included,ollly amounts to helve these 1'esults-(I am including both $127,400,000, being a falling oH' in the cnstoms and excise):-In 1873, between tot111 volume of trade of $100,000.

The the first and tenth of April, we received apparent increase on dutiable goods I have ~3·)13,OOO.
In 1874 we received $1,375,000 already sufficielltly explained.

I have in tluring the same period, being a difference my hand a statement recently given me by ia these ten days of $860,000.
In the the Commissioner of Customs, showing the succeeding period, up to the twentieth of exports and imports for the six months of April, as against $336,000 in 1873, we the current year as compared with those received $1,171,000 in 1874:, amounting of the six months ending on the 31st of to a difference of $835,000 in these two Decemher, 1873.

The result of these I periods of twenty days, or two will briefly read to the House.

During periods of ten days.


\Ve gained as nearly the half year ending the 31st December, aspossible $1,700,000 under the operation 1873, oUI·total exports amounted to $57, the 251,000.

During the six months of the of the new tariff.


As I have said, imports appear to this current year, our total House bo1'- have amounted to $53,357,000, being a was 1875. decrease, I am sorry to say, of nearly four l'o\ved The remaining two or ('on entered for thousand dollars are much more imports amounted to ~wcounteJ for hy the operation of the $71,068,000 in 1873, and in the corres taritl~ as evidenced in these tables.
"""ith ponding period of 1874, the total imports respect amounted to $69,588,000, being a deficit that if the sums estimated for by Mr. of about one million and a half.

This I TILLEY had been expended in addition to want the House to bear in mind is partly those which we knew would be expended, that we have virtu the estimates must have reached at least ally borrowed a portion of the revenue of $24,100,000, very little explanation is 1875 for the benefit of 1874.

With res needed.
With res needed.

The House is aW.ne that the pect to the fourth statement made by me three hundred millions.

Of articles will to a from the than sumption our total explained by the fact that extent of remember certain statement, to my revenue second rather 11on.

.Mr.

Cartwri{lht.

FEBRUARY 16, 1875.

161 for hon.


House understand, in large cities exemptions -that if the House consented to grant of the demands being constantly made those supplies for which we asked, we did upon us in that direction, we shall be not think we would b~ likely to call upon obliged to ask the House to give us this them for further supplies-I will reserve year $200,000, instead of $100,000.
For :my further comment until a later period the Philadelphia Exhibition we have been take obliged to put a vote of $40,000 in the of my remarks.

I may, however, an object which and for this opportunity of stating briefly that so Estimates, far as we can now judge, I have no reason I not will the think to believe that the estimates I made of the grudge, namely, the rewarding of the few 1875 will remaining veterans of lS12, and for this receipts probable fall the purpose we ask for an increase in the short.
Up to the present time Estimates have corresponded very nearly pension list of $50,000.

In addition to these,customs and the administration ofjus with the Estimates made by me, and pos- sibly tice will require an angmentation of about they may be slightly exceeded, to form any $70,000.
The increase in the case of the although it is too soon yet correct idea of the trade movements dur- Adminif)tration of Justice is almost entirely statutory, and will require no explanation ing the remaining portion of the year.

from me.

The increase in the Customs As regards the expenditure for 1875, I think my friend beside me (the Department, I may say, is largely due to Minister of Public Works) may be able my hon.
friend, (the Minister of Customs) to :make a considerable saving in those having determined to give the merchants two large items, namely, public works from certain charged to income, and the maintenance vexatious dues which are not enacted, I from those in the smaller of public works ; but on the other hand, I am afraid T shall be obliged to bring down toV¥lS.
Then there are several miscel certain Supplementary Estimates, it being laneous services amounting to $80,000, scarcely possible for any Department: how- which we hope will be repaid by fees, as find stated if they .evel' vigilant, to avoid incurring some such hon.

gentlemen will Estimates in a period of nearly eighteen will refer to the particular Estimates, to months.

With respect to the Estimates which I am now alluding.
1i'or Indians, require, in consequence of the submitted by me the other day, having we w.ill reference to the probable expenditure for reeent treaty, an additional grant to the the ensuing year, the House v,~ill observe extent of some $35,000 ; and a Bimilar that the sum total chargeable to income is sum will be required for the reorganization estimated at $24,tl57,4tiS, being a trifle of the North-vVest, in respect of which less than the sum estimated last year, to pro think which amounted to $24,883,000, a certain pose a bill to the House.
These I portion of the sum placed on the Esti- cover all the increases of anJ moment to mates being carried forward.

if which I will call your attention.

in these hOIl.

gentlemen will refer to those Esti- Estimates.
On the other hanu, the House mates, they will see that we have been will see on reference to the item of Public obliged to ask for considerable increases "Vorks, and buildings chargcR,ble to income, in the folloy,ring serYices: In the first we propose a reduction of $309,000, and place, recent negotiations in London have on Public 'Yorks under the head of " Col required an increase in the interest on lection of Revenue," we propose a redue tion of $488,000 , which two sums contain the public debt to the amount of $182,- In the next place, the Post Office in conjunction with the savings on lYIili 34:4.
Department will demand an increa.<;e of tary Stores (the last of our instalments to somewhat over $200,000, combining in the British Government having been paid that statement the sum demanded under off last year) enables us to hring down I the head of Post Office, and a considerable our Est4nates with a slight reduction.

charge which will also be required under these the For Estimates, that there are several of the 11ead of Civil Government.
Menonite Loan, which was alluded to by sums which, from the nature of the case, my honorable friend the other day, and "ill not need to be asked for again; as, which I fully expect will be returned to for instance, the grant to the Menonites, us, we will require a further sum of $100,- the grant to the Philadelphia Exhibition, 000.

For Dominion lanus, in consequence and prQQ~bly thE;l grant that we make to the :Ministel' of Justice is about remark with respect N ow, lllay to Hon.

Mr. Cartwright.
Mr. Cartwright.

162 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

of for that that charge to the or the for steel from that source will either of they being almost that construction ql!te tion to the House, that the telegraph indeed, friend, when these the expenditure taken for probably expenditureR we As regards the the veterans of 1812, Intercolonial and Prince Edward lEland all of them men of seventy-eight or Railways, as far as capital expenditure is eighty years of age, and, therefore, not concerned.
The same remark will apply, likely to remain long a burden upon the probably, to the extension of the railway finances of the country.

As regards the into Halifax and to a very large part of Post:Office, my hon.

the Pacific 'will give Railway, which the House will see is no items come before the House, It is pot less a sum than $6,250,000.

more detailed explanations than I am at for I may say, present in a position to give.

likely generally, however, lines.


the that partly in conse- quel1ce of his convention with the United or rails, and, a the remaining charges will States; partly on account of the increased portion of facilities which he proposes to give in require to be repeated next year.

\Vith regard to postal matters, he will be obliged respect to canals, so much depends on the increase his success of the contractors in prosecuting to decrease his revenue or expenditure these works with expedition, about it is.
extent to the Post impossible for me to say how much my $150,000.

With respect Office Department, I may further say that friend (Minister of Public \Vorks) hOll.

although the expenditure is al,,-ars con- will be able to spend on that head.

The siderably in advance of the revenue, yet House is fully aware of the practice of this it is to be rememberee.
the revenue department of bringing do"\V-n estimates of increases from time to time, a.nd I am in all that can by any possibility be spent hopes that in the course of a year or two within the current year.

I ha YO suggested to my han.

friend, and I repeat the sugges receipts the it may be worth nearly, very consideration, counteruaJance in view of the fad that are olligt'd to incur.
these Estimates ·within my m.emor:)T have estimate of our !lrolxLble receipts for the ah'i11ys been by the practice of the depart lllay say that I make ment largely in excess of the sum actuall;y year 187.1-76, I the House would not them as follows :-From Customs I something like fifteen permit us largdy to reduce these items we shall derive millions and a half, provided no check with the understanding that 'when the trade.
work has actually commenced, and the occurs to the general volume of From the Excise I estimate we will to be expended has derive a further sum of five and a half been fairly stated to the House, in ease of 11.1. millions, amounting to about estimate the practice 110 doubt this is very often done.

millions.

revenue will be about $250,000.


From My objection to the present state of things is simply this: That to a certain extent it the Post-Office I am afraid I must expect like this year affects our credit abroad when it is found $1,050,000, something instead of Sl,Oll,OOO, the first operation that we bring down these very large amounts which are not of the reduction to the receipts, although I think likely is no they will ultimately increase the revenue.
From Public Works I hope to receive doubt a something like $1,700,000, and from the larger proportion of those Estimates will other sources-interest and investments probably be expended than has been cus and from casual receipts-a little oyer one tomary.

throw out the suggestion for million of dollars, making a Bum total of the consideration of hon.

gentlemen op twenty-five millions and a quarter, or posite, who are bound to check any.
turning to the unconstitutional proceedings of OUI'S, and thereabonts.

formidable item of capital account, which if they will concur, perhaps the House to no le88 a sum will allow us on future occasions to pare altogether will amount than $14,717,000, I may briefly say that do,,,-n these Estimates of capital account a very large proportion of this expenditure much more than we can do at present.

I to give is, from the nature of the case, not to be repeated.
For example, I hope next to rear that we will see the last of the the loan of four millions sterling recently twenty-one 11eed further sums should be taken.

likely will now proceed, lIr.

SPEAKER, the House explanations with respect these changes being to cause during the year 1876, think required, whether expended However, some Estimates of sum which is about From Stamps I during there current year.

Now, Sir, that be to I H on.

Mr. Oarturrigltt.

FEBRYARY 16, 1875.


163 That dollars, sterling, the gross negotiated in London.

But, perhaps, before I proceed to do so, it may be well briefly to state to the House what has been done with the funds realized there loan being plac6d at 90, from.

realized the sum of about seventeen million and a half amount and a half million being nineteen and dollurs, or four millions the net proceeds being, as I have said, a little over seventeen and a half mil lions.
N OYi', Sir, ",,,,hat we propose to do with these funds is briefly this: \Ve pro pose to payoff ten millions of the public debt, including the grant to ,jihe Seignewrs for compensation; and the remaining seven and a half millions we intend to apply to any public works tl1at we may undertake.
Possibly, to prevent miscon ception, I should rather say that the loan is to free other funds in our hands applic able to such purposes, becaUlile as the loan was made for public works, it is well to observe that the money (loes go bOJUf, fide to public works, although practically the 1'8s,.11t is as I have stated.
Now, as these seventeen millions and a half cost this country 8778,000 a year, and as the ten millions of debt which we propose to pay haTe cost us G per cent., or $600,000 a ~yeaT, the res,Ilt of the operation is that we get seven and a half millions on hand charge on the without revenue more than 8178,000.
In other ,vord~, to put the matter in a more con cise shape, if the House would permit me to im'est that money at the ordinary rate which We" receive for deposits, we would be the gainer by the transaction to the extent of ;3:200,000 a year.

Now, with re.<;pect to the loan itself, as far as I under stand,three objections lU1ve been tn,ken to it.
First, as to the expediency of borrowing at all upon our own creditj secondly, as to theex~)ediencyof borrowing so large a sum; and, thirdly, as to the terms of the loan.

\Vith respect to the first point, I may say the Government had a good deal to con sider before they determined on borrowing on their own credit.
No doubt it would have been very easy to maketheloan on the it must be Imperial observed that had we done 80 we would have lost a very favorable opportanity for negotiating a loan on our own credit which might not I consider of more importance-we would have lost the control of the market to a return again, and-what incl'c::tsing the guarantee, but Hon.

Mr. Oartwright.
Mr. Oartwright.

the For that these construction Province of certain extent, that is to say we would have lost the power to go to the English market as borrowers at such times as are most convenient and suitable for ourselves.

:Moreover, I think it would have placed us at a certain disadvantage with the Imperial Government and British Columbia if we asked for the Imperial guarantee had there was any dispute between while ourselveR and to as Pacific the reasons RailwR,J.
all I advised my colleagues,and they accepted the snggestion, that 'we should uva,il our selves of the opportunity for negot iating a loan on our own undivided credit.

As to the amount of the loan, I may remark that it is not quite so large as it appears.
A loan of four millions sterling at 90 only amounts to about three and a half millions sterling or sevent~en and a half million donal's; and although I would have been glad, other circumstances being equal, not to have placed so large a sum upon the market at once, yet beltring in mind that I had very good investments for the money if I got it, ..nd also bearing in Inind that it was absolutely imperative on me to borrow, inasmuch as six millions of debt was maturing, and had to be paid, and inasmuch as a large steady expenditure on capital account is steadily going on, I felt if it was absolutely necei5sary to borrow, we had a goou opportunity, enough to meet e;:;pecially as Canada had.
appeared in the Eng lish market in 11)73, and if I appeared I had the in 1874 and then again 1875 best such a course would have been seriously preju dicial to the intere;.

;ts of this conntry.

Now, Sir, coming to the lo~m itself, there are three standards of comparison by which tbe Honse can fairly judge of the merits of the transaction.

They may if they choose take the price of English three I>Br cents.
They may also take tIle price obtained by Mr. TILLEY with the Imperial guarantee in 187;3; and they may take the price obtained by other borrowers in the English market.

Now, with respect to the first of these standards of compari son, I may say that at the time I was nego tiating this loan the price of new consols, new English Three per Cents, was almost exactly the same as that at which our The price Four per Cents, were floating.
is true were higher, but of old con~ols it; reasons for believing that these dem;mds, more 164 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

I annum, difference, making sixteen shillings per cent.

these, as the House is aware, are main tained at their present rate by causes to which I need not refer.

Consols, there fore, are hardly a fair standard of com parison, but as the comparison has been thought I might as well refer to used, it.

With respect to the price obtained for the loan, if hon.
gentlemen will com pare that loan at 4 per cent.

at 90 with the loan negotiated by Mr. TILLEY under the Imperial gnarantee at 104, on which I beg to state the allowances taken altogether were fully equal to those made by me, they will find that the difference of interest in the two loans is just twelve cent.

per shillings per and the allowance for premium and discount, amounts to 4 shillings per cent.
per annum, consequently the difference between a loan on our own undivided credit and one on our credit joined with the Imperial credit amounts to just per annum, or in other words we placed our loan within four-fifths of one per cent.

of the loan with the Imperial guarantee in order that the House may fully N ow, understand the exact position, I will I have here of six refer to a statement loans negotiated by six nations of the very highest standing in the English Stock Exchange.
The first was negotiated by Belgium in 1874, a very few months before I appeared in England.

This was loan issued at 75i, but a three per cent.

in England had at the time of my arrival fullen to 73.

The second was a Brazilian 5 per cent.

loan issued in 1871 at 89.

The third was a Danish 5 per cent.

loan issued at 94~.

The fourth was a Dutch four per cent.

loan issued originally at 82.

The fifth were Russian five per cents.


which were issued the past six or to 1873, and ranging at various prices, one large loan in 1866 being at 86, another in 1873 at 93.

The sixth was a Swedish five per cent.

loan issued in 1868 at 90.


I may in all remark that these cases I believe these loans not only included a heavy sinking fund, but also allowances quite N ow-I equal speak under correction, because I am aware that although I have been at some pains to investigate the authorities on the subject, I may be deceiving myself in the statement I am about to make-I think is apparent1 that during seven years previous to those made by me.

result this general H on.

Mr. Oc.rtwright.


on less Imperial guarantee namely, that the loan which was placed in the English market last June was ob tained on better terms than any other loan of equal amount for the past twenty years.

I believe that there was one foreign.
loan to which I -the Belgium three per cent., have alluded, and which was only to the amount of one million sterling, while ours was three and a half millions-which 'was obtained at a shade better terms, and when I state, as I have stated, that our loan ,vas than the market at placed Ol1e per cent, of what was charged with I the added, think I ma;y reasonably say that the Dominion of Canada has no reason to be ashamed of the position in which it stands in the English market.
There is another point on which issue has been taken by gentlemen opposite.

We have been con demned, I think unadvisedly, for electing to issue this loan at a discount.

N ow, if there is one principle of finance which is better established than another, it is this -that it is almost impossible to obtain as good a price in proportion for a loan issued at a premium as can be obtained for 10<1ns issued at a discount.

I need not enlarge upon the reasons that cause investors to prefer such loans.
to say that is notorious, and if further proof the fact of it is wanted, it will be found in the fact that all these States to which I have alluded have preferred to issue their loans at a discount, as I did.

I have not alluded to the issues of France and the United States, because great as the resources of these countries are, and high as their credit usually stands, they are debarred from any fair com for many causes petition at present.
I may remark 1 l\Iassachu however, gentleman setts, which, as knows, has always commanded a high position in the English market, issued its five per cents.

at the rate of 87 in 1870, and 91 in 1871.

They appear to have been redeemable in 1891.


Taking the whole list of investments as set out in the think-although I I usual authorities, am open to correction on that point-that the statement I made is literally correct, namely, that no loan has been floated on the Engish market of equal amount on such favorable terms within the past twenty years.

Moreover, in considering the situation it must be borne in mind that no bOM fide Canadian loan on our own the State of Suffice that hon.
the FEBRUARY 16, 1875.

165 as list, twenty or I believe by Mr. large is committed.

financial position of gentleman will share the credit had been issued since the loan raised tion is a little more favorable to us than first sight.

My hon.

by Sir ALEXANDER GALT in 1860, except would appear at one small loan of £500,000 negotiated by frrend knows that a Sinking Fund at one Sir JOHN ROSE under peculiar circum- per cent.
means a much earlier payment It must also be borne in mind than a Sinking Fund at one-half per cent.

stances.

the great number of foreign loans And now, Mr. SPEAKER, I desire to review that the present now pressing on the English market has this country with reference to the engagements caused an increase in the rate of interest to which this Government and the country even as regards securities of the first- That position is any class, find at and one of a very peculiar character, as hon.
by referring to more particularly to the price of consols gentlemen will readily perceive.

I Rhall twenty-five begin from the 1st July, 1874, and lay during the last years.

According to the computations before the House a short synopsis of our made by persons entitled to respect in financial engagements down to the year 1884, that being the period at which most these matters, notably, loans now current will mature.
DFDLEY BAXTER, a sum than two thousand millions sterling Our position is peculiar, because, in addi have been added to the national indebted- tion to being committed to very large ness of various nations in the English Stock engagements that properly are chargeable to capital account, and which are in the Exchange within the last twenty years.
l\{oreover, it may be as well to call the nature of a debt incurred by treaty, owing attention of the House to the fact, as partly to the Confederation, and partly to bearing on the advisability of choosing our other engagements which we entered into, it will be necessary to expend some SL'::.ty or awn time for placing our loans on the sixty-five millions of dollars during the next market, that the English Stock Exchange is an extremely fluctuating a,nd sensitiveIten years... 0n.caPital account, and 'we will, it appears that no less of our I desire to lay before of sort body.
How fluctuating it is may best be therefore, require to make provision for a knovnl by the simple statement that within sum of $125,000,000 during the ensuing the a short period the prices of consols, although ten years.

the a artificially kept up, varied from six to ten House summary that in and twelve per cent, within a single year.

mode I It would be apparent, be heavy to the these engagements House, that in addition to doing all in our \ met.
Starting from the 1st of July, 1874. power to maintain our credit, which is On that date, taking into consideration essential in the English market, we must \ the loan and other assets-though the also be in a position to choose our own time loan was not all paid up at that date-we had for putting our loan on the market, and in cash some $25,000,000.
Of course, by unless we do so, no matter how good the this time most of that money has been financial condition of the country may be, expended in the way indicated, but we we may be required to pay more than the still have enough to carry us through the I i financial year ending the 30th day of rates we have been previously paying.

may also remark, In addition to the $25,000, suggestion for the present, that I believe 000 we have the English guarantee fund amounting to about $20,000,000.
it would greatly conduce to the advantage \rVe may also count the sinking fund applicable to of Canada if we could consolidate the various securities which are now bearing that purpose, which cannot be less than into one consoli- $5,000,000, and I think that during those several rates of interest, ten years we shall pl;obably borrow from dated Canadian stock.

Some steps have through the medium of been taken which, other miscellan,eous result in achieving that desirable end.
savings banks sources, about one million of dollars, to about ten If the House coincides Han.

Mr. CARTWRIGHT-One-half with me in the opinion that it will be wise I may and· prudent, with these heavy engage to maintain a steady, moderate transac, surplus, we will have another million per per cent., The Sinking Fund, remark, (:ent., an<1, the Sinking annually, amounting in all millions more.

the hon.
the hon.

gentleman fixed for Fund ~ in Mr. TILLEY'S loan is one per ments, I hope will ultimately our own people, :Mr. TUPPER-What rate has though this is merely a of which June, 1876. the formel' therefore, think Hon.

'will or thcrcforf', Hal~.

Mr. CartwriqM 166 HOUSE OF COMMONS, the portions twenty-five or '1118 House will is the annum, amounting to ten millions more.

own time for borrowing.


That Of the total $125,000,000, I already see reason why I am BO anxious to retain the my way clear to provide $70,000,000 in Imperial guarantee by which in case of the way indicated, which would leave need we can obtain a loan under almost some $55,000,000 to be borrowed on our any conceivable circumstances.

Now, if own individual credit.


I do not lay very ¥iuch stress on the pro thirty bability of a great increase in the revenue understand that from the natural growth of the country, it millions of this amount may be paid at our option, but is because, as every hOll.

gentleman knows, there are many reasons this country as it grows and increases in why we should pay the whole as it matures.

This sum is the loan negotiated by Sir A. prosperity will require considerable addi T.GALT.
The House will therefore see that it tional expenditures, and though I hope ',-e will be necessary to borrow $75,000,000, will always maintain a moderate surplus, (including the English guarantee,) within a considerable portion of our natural the next nine or ten years; in other words, increase mUf';t go to meet contingencies it ·will be necessary for us to appear in the which, in a country like ours, are inevitablA.
that English market as borrOlvers four times at There can be very little doubt If we succeed to maintain least during that period.

the of in borrowing that sum at the rates which Pacific Railroad which will be constructed have been recently established, the results will entail a consideraBle expenditure, and will be as follows :-$125,000,000 borrow- there will also be a considerable outlay in ed at an average of four per cent.
would settling with the Indians in the North cost $5,625,000, from which we deduct five 'Vest, and maintaining government in interest on $65,000,000, or six per cent.

that region.

No doubt a oertain portion (that being the amount of the old debt of this expenditure may be fairly looked maturing), which would be $3,600,000, upon as productive, in the sense of bring leaving an additional burden of $2,025,- iug back into our coffers some return for 000, per annum.
the moneys 'Ve will further deduct expended, and I may add from this the sum of $750,000, that of all the schemes submitted to this represent- I believe that proposed by my ing interest on the Sinking Fund and on House, friend the Premier, for opening up the surplus, which I propose to secure as hon.

part of our assets.
part of our assets.

This would give the that fine and considerable tract between total of the additional interest for which we French River and the Otta,va Valley, is will have to provide, if the Honse does the one which on the whole is most likely rush into fresh entanglements and to add to the paying productive population not engagements at $1,230,000.

Now, I have of the Province of Ontario.


I hope also in that our merchants will be successfnl no doubt whatever that the resources of this country will be ample to meet that finding new fields of trade which ,vill par tially compensate them for that which though for reas- additional demand on us, ons frequently stated by llle from my place they have failed to obtain with the nation in this House, I am not willing to add to on the other side of the line.
My advice is in view of those numerous contingen the permanent debt of the country in the cies which always occur in a country like than I shape of lllay this, that we ought to consider the natural can help.

But obtain these several a cheap growth as a fair offset against the inevita requisite.

We ble expenditures which must occur in the rate several It is not necessary for me to must enjoy some moderate progress, which Dominion.
I am spend any further time in reviewing the I have no doubt ",ill not going to reflect on the action of my volume of our exports and imports.
I do predecessors, but I will simply state as a not consider that it is any proof that a is retrograciing .in matter of fact that I found that the manner country like ours in 'which they entered into the Pacific any way, because there is a check to Railway engagement was a serious obstacle the authorities who in the way of placing a loan on the Eng- were entitled to great respect, state that lish market.
We must anange our we have rather overstepped the mark in engagements in such a manner a..~ to be our progress in this direction, and I look able to obtain the full and complete control upon the check to our imports more as an indication of greater prudenoe in the man~ of the English market 80 as to secure our imports.

Many take place.

any more things are in order loans at that we interest 11on.

JIt·.

Oartwrigllt.

FEBRUARY 16, 1875.


167 it that the increase they had arrived at do l~Ot anti~ipate the I results here, but inspiriting every was not m{til '1851 that agement of our commercial affairs than period of comparative inaction.

Now, as anything else.


Moreover,acertain portion of this is a point of some little moment, I this falling off is due rather to the decline may be permitted to call the attention of in value of certain articles of consumption, the House to the fact that whereas in the than to any decrease in the quantity con- years between 1832 and 1836 the imports sumed.
On the whole, no branch of our of the United States increased, almost as trade and commerce, with the important ours have done, from one hundred millions exception of the trade in lumber, seems to in 1832to one hundred and eighty-nine mil have suffered, and the excellent harvest lions in 1836; that after attaining that figure with which we have been favored during in 1836, no less than fifteen years elapsed reached that sum, it the past year will have a very favorable before thev a~rain effect, enccaraging anel imports to the portion of the community, mercantile as United States attained the proportion well as the agricultural.
There is a large in 1836, and that, portion of our imports heretofore caused too, in a period of great prosperity in that by the extensive railway improvements in conntry, and though the population in the the Province of Ontario, and according to same interval had increased from fifteen the statement made by the Treasurer of millions to nearly twenty-four millions in Ontario, in his place in the Legislative 1851. same is my duty, if the Assembly of that Pl'ovince, in the expenditure of the Dominion can House, or any members of it, choose to hardly be expected to do more than com- assume that the fact of a rapid increase in pensate for the large railway expenditure the past is necessarily a proof that an equally rapid increase is to be looked for which occurred in Ontario during the hst fonr or five years.
According to the statc- in the future-to call attention to the ment of that hon.

gentleman upwards of that great country though it fact 830,000,000 had been, or were about to increased in essenti~l prosperity in all be expended on t,}le constrnctionofrailwltys remained with in thfLt Province alone, giving an average of ont any great, increase taking place in its imports for a period of no less than 15 six millions per annum, which, I hope, will be of such nature as to largely aid years.
The House will therefore see that the problem befoI"e us is of a complex our production in that region; but it is character.
Not only have we to provide evident that for the time being the annual expenditure on the Pacific Railway and for a considerable number of heavy annual engagements, hut we have also ~ to meet other works, which will be about six mil- lions on the average, will not do much prop_lissory notes, if I may so term them, the cessation of maturing at different elates over a long more than make up for term of years.
Therefore it is necessary this expenditure to keep stronger than if we were ~imply Onta.rio and elsewhere.

myself, in the lef'~st that great ultimate dealing with the ordinary annual expen benefit will flow to that Province from the diture, or if any other expenditures we expenditure to which I have alluded, but were about to incur were strictly within I may here ~llude to I am aware, as other han.

gentlemen are our own control.

the statement made bv the hOll.


member aware, that the immediate results are not for Kingston in the deb;'te on the Address.

lilwly to be great.

The benefit, when it comes, will be solid, and it is to be hoped He said that I remarked that I would be it will be very considerable and penna- prepared to reduce taxation during the nent.

To those hon.
To those hon.

gentlemen who con- I beg to state that sider that the very rapid increase of our was not what I said,as you will see on refer importations from 1868-9 to 1872 is a I stated fair proof that the increase is likely to that I did not think if those supplies were temporary granted it would be at all necessary to come continue panic to before the House again for special taxation.
observe that on looking over the inlporta- Now, sir, I am not aware that there are tions of the United States during the past any other points of interest npon which sixty or seventy years they will find, as a hon.

members will require explanation.

rule, that any rapid period of expansion If there are, I shall be glad to give them was almost invariably succeeded by a long to them either now or at a later stage in of I do not doubt, ring to my speech of last year.

course of the year.
course of the year.

resnects in that I would beg the Province the present has passed, interval after in Hon.

Mr. Cartwright.

168 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

the evening.

I think we may very fairly co~erratulate ourselves that our financial position has materially improved since last year.
AU immediate demands, which were considerable, have been fully met; there are no pressing claims upon us, with the exception of those for public works, for at least a year or two; we have a reason able surplus on the transactions of last and I have every reason to believe year; that we shall also have a reasonable sur plus on those of the current year.

It may also be added that we have so far made no inroads upon that.

valuable reserve, the Imperial Guarantee.


"Ve have completed the Intercolonial Railway and the Prince Edward Island Railway, and are therefore free to turn our energies and attention to the task of enlarging and improving our canals and constructing the Canadian \Ve have succeeded in Pacific Railway.

making such arrangements with British Columbia as, although involving us in very considerable liabilities, are yet quite within our power to perform.
Although from the beginning many of us thought that the demands made upon us by that Province were unreasonable and unduly onerous, we are nevertheless prepared to discharge our obligations fairly, provided they can be brought within due bounds.

I have no doubt, therefore, that, if we persevere in the course I have indicated, in a very short time we shall be in a posi tion of the highest credit.
Still, for the next ten years we must be prudent, and Wb ought not to rush into other engage ments until we have fairly disposed of those for which we are already responsible, though with this proviso I am well con 'vmced that unless some misfortune over takes the commerce of the country, for whicll we cannot reasonably look, "ve shall be able, financially, to give an honourable account of ourselves in the future.
One thing we may fairly say, that the sacrifices which we are called upon to make, if sacrifices they may fairly be called, are such as we are asked to make, not from a selfish point of view, but in the interest the of the whole of Dominion.
We have chosen to take upon ourselves a truly Imperial task-a greater task than was ever undertaken by a nation of our age anti resources-that of coloniz ing and developing a most enormous ex tent of country, not so much for our own benefit as that of generatio1l8 to come.

the Provinces of Hon.

Mr. Cartwright.


something, Although I believe that to a certain extent we must make up our minds to forego other improvements of great present value, I also believe that it is better we should do the obligations to so in order to meet which I have referred.

I believe that every man who has paid any considerable attention to the question of the future of Canada, will be prepared to admit that with us it is a struggle for the possibilit.y of carving out a distinct national exis tence.
This object is truly one for which we may sacrifice and one which I know we will not shrink from sacrificing something for if necessary.

It will be the object and -the interest of the Government to see that we shall be pre pared to attain it without making the sacrifice unreasonable and not beyond due bounds.

that we should be thus called upon peaceably to do that other nations have had to do 1)y means of wasting war.
Great benefits will arise, not only to the present generation from the rrosecution of this great work, but also to the inhabitants, who in the future will populate these vnst regions, and I am far from believing that our people will at all shrink from carrying to its most satis factory conclusion the task to which they In placing in your have set hand, Sir, the resolution that this House go into Oomnuttee to consider of the supply to be granted to HER MAJESTY, I desire, to express my sense of the p1.tience, with which I haye ueen listened to by hon.
members on both sides of this House.

Perhaps it themselves.

is as well Bon.

Mr. TUPPER said:- IvIr.

SPEAKER,-I am happy to congratulate the :Minister of Finance upon the altered tone of the speech delivered to the House upon this occasion as compared with that we had the pleasure of listening to a year ago.
\Ve 1ave not been pained by listen ing to uncomplimentary observations about his predecessors; we have not been pained hy that which was even infinitely more pain ful-the statements he then made use of which were calculated to injure the financial position and lower the financial standing of this country most seriously-that is to say if the statements of the Finance Minister had been received with that credence which it is desirable that they should be received by this House and the country.
I will claim the indulgence of the House while I review a.t some length the circumstances under which increased tax- FEBRUARY 16, 1875.

169 that In order statement to the effect the of the countrJ, this House while I state dealt with them before.
stand here to-day in a position to chal- ation was imposed on us last Jear, and gentleman, by his statements a year ago, the relation theJ bear to the statements placed himself in a position that obliged I claim him to deal with the Public Accounts of submitted to the House to-day.
in the outset some consideration from the this country as no Minister of Finance ever members of to I relieve himself from the dilemma, in which lenge the closest scrptiny of the criticisms his statements of a year ago placed himself, I offered upon the statements of the and the Government of which he is a Minister of Finance last year, a compari- member, he has been obliged to make his son of those statements with the Public comparative statements in a most extra Accounts which the hon.
gentleman has ordinary fashion.

What use is it for the I am House "to have a statement such as this ~ laid upon the table of this House.

prepared to abide bJ the decision of this A shtement which is ,vorth anything must House on the issues that exist between fearlesslJ and honestly give a comparative the hon.
gentleman and myself after they statement of the revenue and expenditure have given careful consideration to a com- of the country on the same basis in each parison of his statements ar~cl mine, and of the years which the comparison proposes to embrace.

Of what value, therefore, the evidence which the Public Accounts is submitted by himself, present the statement presented to the House on to this I take the responsibility of Parliament.

Last year the hon.
Last year the hon.

gentleman this occasion ~ placed in the mouth of his EXCELLENCY the challenging the hon.

gentleman that both in reference to the revenue and expenditure GOVERNOR GENERAL, a serious and impor- liberties have been taken tant It is expenditure of the current year largely such as were never taken before.
exceeded the receipts, and involved the true that even in this a surplus of over necessity of applJing to this Parliament three-quarters of a million is shown as for increased taxation, as a means of meet- between revenue and expenditure.

The hon.

ing that deficit.

The hon.

gentleman also gentleman the revenue represented in the Speech from the Throne of the Jear, that is the receipts of 1873-74 as $24,205,092.54, and the expenditure because, of course, every person under- stands that the hon.
gentleman.

is himself as $23,316,316.75, showing a surplus of specially and.

'personally responsible for $888,775.79.

am going to take the statements contained in that speech touch- libertJ of correcting these statements, and ing the trade and expenditure of the coun- of placing in the receipts of the country that which every other Finance l\{inister try-the hOll.
gentleman I say, i'3 respon- that this country placed in them during the whole period sible for the statement, that this comparative statement professes was in a state of commercial depression, so important and so serious as to require to cover, and by deducting from the ex a. reference from so august a person as the penditure that which no Finance l\finister representative of HER MAJESTY in the hitherto has ever placed in this expendi Dominion of Canada.
to do this with speeCtl of last year to refer for a moment out giving to the House such justification as will carry conviction to the mind of to the speech of this year, as far as the If commercial condition of every gentleman upon the other side.

the country is find that the hon.

gen- hon.

gentlemen will turn their attention concerned.

You.
You.

tleman has introduced into that document to this professedly comparative statement this year a statement which he could have what will they find 1 They will find that in 1867-68, and in all the other years re introduced with very great safety last that notwithstanding the ferred to under the heading of " Premium year, namely, great commercial depression which had and Discount," certain sums are inserted.
prevailed in the country lying alongside Under that head in 1868 they will find the sum of $608,510.12, and what will of sound; and the hon.
gentleman has given the House say when I tell in this document, declared to be a compara to the House and to the country 'an evi- tive statement, which is now placed in dence that his statement of last year was unwarrantable, and that to enable them to compare the receipts of the pre rmbmitted to the criticism I sent year with the receipts of the past I now st~te to the House that it was rightly the hands of hon.

members, then offered.

the hon.

turn ~rom the ture.


of Canada was I will not attempt them that given us tr-etde has the us, I I Hon.

Mr. Tf/Pptr.

170 HOUSE OF OOMMONS, year.

The hon.

gentleman has subtracted a corresponding sum and placed in another dh-ision of the Public Accounts.

I that Hon.

:Mr. CART\VRIGHT-Certainly.

:M:r. TUPPER-I am not dis Hon.

cussing the question whether it is right or not; what we are dealing with in the meantime is the question whether this is really and truly a comparative statement.
I affirm simply, without fear of successful contradiction, that in order to make it a comparative statement which ,vould be of any value to the House, the sum that I have referred to must be entered in the past year as it was for 1868 and the sub therefore add to the sequent years.

receipts of 1873-4 a similar sum to that contained in the former statement of $384,327.48 received as premium 011 the loan negotiated by the hon.

gentleman's That brings predecessor, 1\11'.

TILLEY.
TILLEY.

the total receipts for the year up to $24, 589,419.68.

Let me turn to the other side of the account.

The House will recollect the hon.

gentleman laid upon the table of this House a statement of the nine months' expenditure, a year I challenged the accuracy of that ago.

statement, and I told hon.


gentlemen opposite that if they would lay upon the table of the House a detailed statement of the mode in which they made up the expenditure chargeable to the operation of our railways, which amount was no less than $1,48~,607.89 for nine months, I would pledge myself to -show to the House that they 'fere wrong to the extent of half a million.

I subsequently claimed that that half million must be added to the surplus that would otherwise exist at the end of the year.
In order to show the balance u.s between revenue and ex penditure, I will now give to the House tIre evidence that will prevent anyone ever questioning for a moment my right If hon.

gentlemen will turn to to do so.

the Public Accounts of 1873, to the second part under the heading of "Railway Expenditure," they will see the following statements : - Branch Line, Londonderry Point du Chene improvements... ..

Branch Line, St. John............ Mill Pond improvements, St. John.
Halifax City Hailway Extension... .

Branch Line, Dorchester... .

.. ....

Deep Water Whti-rf, St. John...... 100 new Platform Cars............ $ 16,943 29 21,338 91 50,953 5~ 17,654 35 15,570 30 2,387 20 98 35 67,110 00 lIon.

1Jlr.

1 upper.

$192,055 99 at lt10untains.

These If they turn to the 39th page of the 3rd part they will find this sum put down to capital expenditure, or expended upon construction chargeable to capital.

Now, Sir, I will ask hon.


gentlemen to turn to the Public Accounts of the present year, and I will draw their attention for a single moment to some of the items included in this expenditm:e put down as expenditure chargeable to railway revenue account.

On page 33 of the Srd part you will find chargeable to working expenses $1,301, 550.08.

You will find details to which I will for the moment direct the attention Snow sheds and fences, of of the House.
built, the value of $49,097.96, were covering a llew portion of the Intercolonial Railway, where it passes through the 'Vestchester are as much a part of the Intercolonial Railway the steel rails with which it is laid.

as That is one of the items, and one which cannot pos~ibly find its way into the account of revenue and expenditure of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia railways.
Then there is the filling in at the Black siding burn Trestle Bridge, $4,561.95; accommodation Intercolonial and Acadia Coal Company's connections $4,221.60; siding at Newport, $9,384.79 ; shop tools at Moncton, $11, 296, and customs warehouse at St. J ohu, $2,190.

The Spring Hill branch, nearly five miles of new railway, was acquired by this Government and for the expenditure upon it the Government absolutely obtained a fee simple of this road yet $32,733.89, is charged for this to revenue expenses.
The whole makes a sum of $1,847,175.24.

That is the manner in which these Public Accounts have been dealt with, and this is the sum given as a comparative statement by which the hon.

gentleman endeavors to create a deficit for 1873-4 and throws upon his predecessors the onus of his having to increase the taxation of the people.

But what more 1 If any further proof is needed, I have here the report of the present 1\:linister of Public WOl'ks, and if the hon.
members will turn to that report and its appendix, they will find that he there states that $1,301,550.08 is all that can be charged to revenue account.

evidence sir, with this And yet, of impropriety the Premier to tIle as of putting expen another no revenue we to diture less than $545,625,16 placed improperl.r dollar of have 'the the FEBRUARY 16, 1875.
171 cost that rails, Deducting the relaid with steel extraordinary works, expenditure must be B~fore I pass away from this to revenue, according to the admission of quarter millions.
How would the Grand the Premier, according to all previous Trunk officials like the two million pounds public accounts, and according to the state- sterling expended on the purchase and ment of Mr. BRYDGES, a gentleman who laying down of steel rails to be charged to at all events is as well able as any man in the current expenses of a single year.
up railway That might technically be a proper posi this country in making tion in which to place the renewals, but accounts to state what portion is oharge- the able to revenue and what portion to capi- spread over tal.

twenty years to enable a proper and just In his report of 18th A.ugust, 1874, comparison to be made between its present l\ir.

BRYDGES informed the Government that the gross expenses for the year ending and past position.
That extraordinary June 30, 1874, on the New Brunswick expenditure on the Government railways amounted was caused by a portion of the track being and Nova Scotia Railways to $1,301,550.08, and yet with all these the outlay upon evidences of the impropriety of including which should be spread over a number of for one dollar more, $545,605 are added to years.
these the amount that could not be put there the House would "\\"ithout entirely destroying its character observe that a deficit of $122,666 had been as a comparative statement.

From the magnified into one and a quarter millions.
I think I have satisfied the House that I total sum of $23,412,829, I deduct which ought to be capital expenditure- have rightly deducted that sum of 8545, $545,625-which leaves a total of $22,- 625 from the st.:'1,tement of the expendi ture, which has been laid on the table, 867,204. railway expenditure, and from the ques- which leaves $22,867,204, thus showing that could be legiti- an actual surplus of $1,722,215 on 1st.

of tion of the amount mately charged against the working of the July, 1874.
Now, l\'lr.

SPEAKER, I admit frankly that railways, I will refer to the statement la..c.;t to this amount some deductions, but I challenge the accur :Minister of Finance, session of the hon.

which startled all of us, that racy of the statements made on this point there was a deficit of one and a quarter millions in con- by the Finance Minister, and will under nection with revenue and expenditure of take to prove to the House, from the hon.

public works due to those railways.


Not gentleman's own statement, so that he only that, but cannot controvert my argument, that no which re-published substantially the speech such sum as two millions of the amount received before 1st July 1874, was due to of the hon.

gentleman on the eve of nego- tiating an important I ·will now deal with loan, drew the the change of tariff.

attention of the people of England to the another point.

But before doing so, as the hon.


gentleman a year ago cast unwar fact that Canada was engaging in a series of such thoroughly unprofitable works that ranted odium upon his predecessor, :Mr. a deficit of oue and a quarter million dollars TILLEY, and the calculations he had sub had been caused by the operations of the mitted to the House a year previously, I draw the attention of the and expressed himself in not very compli railways.

House to the fact in respect of my state being a l~ss of one.
and a quarter millions ments, I shall draw the attention of the railways, the House for a few moments to l\fr.

TILLEY'S upon the operations of our loss I have shown that the expen is confirmed by the statement of :1\11'.

diture was $22,867,204.

What did Mr. BRYDGES in his report.


I admit that this TILLEY say to this House-this genUe is a true statement of what should be man who has been held up to the people charged to v{orking expenses; but it does of this country as a :Minister who could not represent the true financial condition not approximately estimate the probable of the railways.
vVhen I state that the expenditure 7 :Mr. TILLEY'S estimate of public accounts show that of that $408,119 expenditure for 1873-4 was $22,586,000, no less than $275,719 are due not to ordi- while the national expenditure was $22, the 867,204, and this statement was made nary but to extraordinary expenses, House will see at once how small was the more than a year before it could be veri ground for In my speech in which I criticised ment that there was a deficit of one and a .
the Finance :Minister's statement last year that, instead of there mentary terms, amounts to only $408,119, and that the Finance l\finister's state- the London Economist.

statement.

is subject fied.

Hon.

Mr. TupPer.

172 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

.

t d IniS er, rna e ,,,-ould show an expendi- " The hall.

Finance Minister had fallen into in asking the House to resort I ventured to say that the accounts at the for that is precisely the point to which I end of the year am going to address myself.

The hon.
The hon.

ture of S22,933,800.

By permission of gentleman stated that the expenditure for the House I ~.yilr read the following extract the year would be $24,100,000, and it was upon that statement that he felt warranted from a report of my speech: to the extreme course of levying three millions "one or two grave errors in estimating the It " financial affairs of the country.

In page 32 of additional " the Estimates it would be found that there was " a sum of $76(j,200 which the hon.
gentleman will not do for the han.

gentleman to come " declared would required to be re-yoted.

This before the Honse with an excuse, because " was upwards of three-quarters of a million if he believed they were only figures on " which according to the hOll.

gentleman's own paper, and did not the true " showing would be unappropriated up to the position of affairs, he was not warranted " 1st July, 1874.

Then he wished to dra.w "attention to another point.
He maintained in resorting to such an extreme course. "

that the hon.

gentleman had made a mistake Deduct the actual expenditure of $22,867, "in the statement of expenditure which had 204 from the estimated expenditure by 'th been laid on the table of the House of nearly th F' taxation on the country.

represent b h" M' the that, y 1m WI .

e mance " half a million of dollars.

In one item the han.


... , gentleman startled the House and the country all the documents in his possession, which " with the declaration he made as to the expen- would enable him to ascertain the correct that would exist in regard financial position ofthe country, and the han.

"diture and deficit ."

to the working of the Government railways.

gentleman was proved to have been$1,232, "He (Dr. TUPPER) might say that he had "watched the operations of those works in .806 astray.
I mention that fact to the House ~'regard to the receipts they would give the because I feel after the manner in 4' country, expenditure upon them, and which the Hon.

Finance Minister dealt " everything connected with them, in the most with the statements which I offered to the " narrow manner for fifteen years, and he would " pledge himself to prove the mistake in the hon.
House last session, it is not improper that "gentleman's figures if he would brmg down I should remind the House of how the " a detailed statement showing how he made statements I offered have been borne out "up the $1,488,607 charged against the opera- by the Public Accounts laid on the table I 1 "tion of the railways for nine months.
The " expenditure for the same service in 1873 was by the Minister of Finance himse f. "only $791,326, although it was well-known stated that the actual surplus of revenue "that, owing to the severity of the winter, the over expenditure was $1,722,215.41.

I " roads had been worked at unusual cost.

He will deduct from that, in the first instance, " had no hesitation in saying this was a mistake, the amount received from new taxes.
The " and he would undertake to show before the "Public Accounts Committee that tl/.-ere was hon.

gentleman has not told us what they " $500,000 charged here to current expenditure amount think I have taken a " which in all previous years had been charged sufficiently wide margin when I state that " to capital account.
The addition of the sum the amount received from the new taxes " of $776,200 to this error of at least $400,000 that is to sa!, the taxes that were received " made a total of $1,166,200 as the sum of un- for the two and a half months previous to "expended money which would enable the the end of the year-was $546,000.

Then " Finance Minister to meet any possible defi- " ciency in any posfilible demand which might find that a very talented gentleman I " arIse before the 1st July, 1874.
By subtract- " ing these errorsfrom the amount of$24, 100,000 -the Deputy Minister of Inland Revenue, "the sum remaining would be $22,933,800, Mr. BRUNEL, who has come to the assist "which would give him a clear IfUrplus of ance of the Finance Minister, and I do not " $966,202 at the ~nd of the curre~t fiscal y~a:'" blame him for seeking any extr¥1eous aid which he can find-has treated this Dr. TUPPER contmued:--The Fmance MmlS- terplacedtheexpenditureat$24,100,000.1 House to a very able' and ingenious have the speech of the Han.
Mini~ter of I ar~ment to show the.

amount of duties Finance (~:..TUPPER contilll~ed) in.

reply paid in before the 1st July, 1874, in to the CrItICism I offered, 11l whIch ~e consequence, not of the new tax, for I have st~~s that no more than twenty-two already included that in the $546,000 that md~lOns of could be collected I have already mentioned-but in conse quence of the proposed change of tariff.

durmg the year.

the And let me here make a single remark I ventured to Bay to the the Hon.
Finance Minister last year, when he I wiHh to bear that in mind, was describing the amount of revenue that new tariff ?

Hon.

new tariff.

:.M:r. TUPPER-Without Mr. CARTWRIGHT - upon that point.

to, but I "YVitllOut dollars lIo·,.

Nr.

Tupper.

FEBRUARY 16, 1875.

173 was received during the last quarter of the year, that that it was owing to the fact the country was excited by the change of tariff.
\Vhat was the result of that 1 If taxation is required at all every person knows that wherever constitutional, Parlia mentary Government exists, the Govern ment considers itself bound to preserve the strictest secresy in reference to any proposed change of tariff, and for obvious trade being reasons-first--to prevent disturbed; to in order secondly, and, obtain a revenue that would otherwise be lost.
But in this case the Government made no secret of the proposed change in the tariff, in fact drew the attention of the public to the subject in the speech from the Throne long before the new tariff was proposed to the House, causing the great est possible derangement in the trade of the country, and also a loss to the revenue.

But I am happy to relieve the hon.


gen tleman from the obloquy that would upon him for taking such a course by stating that the amount thus lost to the is not nearly so large as he revenue himself appears to suppose.

However, I will take the estimate of :Mr. BRUNEL of the enhanced inland revenue received on account of the change in the tariff, namely, $526, G11.

I may stato in.
I may stato in.

refer ence to that, a glance at the figures as they now present themselves will show that this is a very extravagant calculation on the part of .1\11'.

BRUNEL, although he is a gentleman in whose judgment and .

entire honesty of statement I have the most unbounded confidence.

A ghtnce .at the receipts of the Excise Department for during the 'six months from the 1st July, 1874, to the 1st of January, 1875, $152,662.50 more were in 1873.
I quite admit that there was a large amount of revenue in the Inland Revenue Department discounted that would have heen paid in 1875, but not so much as claimed by Mr. BRUNEL, because theHon.

l\finister of :Finance stated that all he pro posed to obtain from Excise was $750, 000 per annum, and the last quarter gives .$234,837 more than the last quarter of 1873.
\Vith these figures before them, the House can see that in accepting :Mr. BRuNEL's statement we have accepted the outside statement, which can be sustained examine the when received '-3,illOunt received in 1874 than 1873-74 will show that which come been you has to Hon.

Mr. TUj)PflT.

SL"X. the last together months.

during Add these sums the amount derived from new taxes, and the amount received from enhanced inland revenue which ought otherwise to have fallen in 1874-5-and we have $1,072,611 in all.
Deduct that from the surplus as it existed and it leaves a surplus for 1873 without change of tariff of $649,604.41.

N ow, the hon.

gentleman will ask me "\Vhat about the Customs1 If you credit over $500,000 for Inland Revenue what are you going to credit for Customs pai(l in before the end of the year which otherwise would have gone to the next year 1" I tell the hon.

gentleman nothing.

I 'will prove to him by his o"\vn argument that he cannot claim a single dolhtr as paid in before th€.
first of July, 1874, over and above that which would have been paid in under I will show the hon.

other circumstances.

gentleman that all that was discounted must haye been discounted Lefore the end of the year.

The hon.

gentleman tells us that instead of the trade of this year having increased it has decreased.

The hon.
The hon.

gentleman has been kind enough to send me over-and I thank him for the courtesy-a statement "\yhich makes- the whole imports entered for consumption for the six months from the first Julv, 1874, to the first of January, 1875, a~d what does it show?

A large increase If these figUl'es are correct-as in trade?

I -they are-they establish a falling off in imports entered for consumption during the past SL'C months of one million and a half.

Now, I wish the hon.


gentleman to tell me if there was a falling off in the trade of the six months from the first of July, 1874, to the first of January, 1875, of one mil lion and a half, how he can show a single dollar discounted previous to the first of July?

I will now draw the attention of the House to the statement of the Customs returns for the six months from the first of July, 1874.

Bear in mind the Hon.


l\linistel' of Finance assured the House and country when he was levying these new taxes a year ago, that he was only taking three millions additional revenue out of the pockets of the people.

Now I invite his attention this statement.

I hold in my hand the Customs returns for the six months from July to January, 1875.

I have admitted the soundness of 1.fr.

BRlTNEL'S argument because }le has am bound to admit 174 HOUSE OF COMMONS.
But the same in December, in November, shewn that there is not a corresponding increase in the receipt of 1874, as com pared with the receipts of 1873, notwith standing the new taxes.

if you accept Mr. BRUNEL'S argument, and if you that half a million come to consider to the Treasury revenue went a,dditional then you are before the 1st of July, bound principle to accept as applied to the Customs Department.
It sho,Ys that in What does it show ~ July, 1873, we received $1,383,539.48 from customs, and in July, 1874, no less a sum than $2,147,652.76, an amount infi nitely larger than the application of the new tariff to the sum received in 1873 would give.

That, you may say, is but a In August, 1873, $2,093, single month.
and in August, received, 978.15 were September, in $2,352,768.97 j 1874, 1873, $1,974,513.75; in September, 1874, $2,471,814.18; in October, 1873, $2,687, 519.02, and in October, 1874, $3,127, 166.77; 1873, $1,814, 885.5.5, and in November, 1874, $2,230, 540.74; 1873, $1,586, 449.90, and in December, 1874, $1,640, 006.13-making a total revenue during these six months from July to January when the hon.
gentleman has shown that a larger amount by one and a half mil lions wa..:; entered for consumption than during the present year-~n1,540,80.5.85 in 1873, and $13,969,949.52 in 1874, or an increase in the six months of $2,429, 143.67~ Now, I ask the hon.
gentleman to explain to this House how it is he can obtain the amount of revenue which he could only get from the heavy levy of nearly five millions of taxes per annum upon the people of this country, provided that a million of Customs Revenue discounte~l before the first July, 1874 I say that it is impossible for any gentle man who rega.rds the argument addressed to the House by the Finance Minister in this matter, to come to any other conclu sion than this-that the hon.
gentleman was obliged, drawing upon his imagination for his such a charge to enhanced Customs as was neces to establish his imaginary sary in order the House deficit.

what that imaginary deficit was.

I hold in my hand a paper that professes to be well informed in this country-the Globe -which states that there was a deficit in the current expenditure of the past year let me tell down Now, fact~, put to Hon.

]tIro 1'vpper.

finds revenue representation of of no less than three millions.
The :Minister of Finance did not go quite so far as that, but the paper tiO which I refer had the shamelessness-I say the word advisedly-to state on the 1st January, 1875, in reviewing the events of the year, that there was a defieit of three millions.

Let me read the language used by that paper- H A deficit of three millions.

The legacy of the former administration, having to be provided for, after much discussion and a very fl.l11 the views of all classes interested, by raising the 15 per cent.
duty on imports to 17-Z per cent.

; by re-imposing a small duty on tea and coffee; by increasing the excise and in some other particulars duties, readjusting the tariff."

The same paper, in re,"'iewing the budget speech, further ~1r.

CARTWRIGHT, says :-" In 1874-5, who has, omitting 1\:11'.
TILLEY'S short rule, virtually succeeded Sir :FRA~CIS HINCKS, still the growing and nearly $3,000,000 ahead of 1870-71, but an expenditure so enhanced that he has to provide by fresh taxes to cover a deficit of three millions."

But what does the Finance l\finister himself say 1 I hold in my hand a London Econ O1nist containing an account of the speech which he delivered to this House; and it was fortunate for the H~use and fortunate for the country, in view of the f:lct th3-t the hon.
gentleman ,vas going t.o England to negotiate a large loan, that there was an Opposition in this House; it was of value to the country that these statements were not allowedtogo unchallenged and that the result of the analysis to which we sub jected the figures and statements of the hon.
gentleman a year ago induced one of the most influential journals in London to di~claim the (leficit-a pretended one; and if it had not been that a friend of Canada was then in England to take up these mischievous state and controvert ments reproduced from the speech of the Honourable Minister of Finance, his story to-day, respecting the loan-although I shall show that it requires some qualifica tion before I sit down-would have been a different one from what it was.

What do they say?
What do they say?

Why, basing their remarks honourable on of gentleman they say :-" There is now serious deficit, involving the necessity a for much new and disagreeable taxation, with every prospect of a still more serious, speech the the FEBRUARY 16, 187h.

li5 that exists the year, ·deficit in the futlU'e unless the past policy is reversed and great care is otherwise taken."

They then give the figures from the Public Accounts, aEt submitted by the Hon.
Minister ofFinance and the statement contained in the Budget speech, and there after put down a deficit of £472,000 sterling as that which the Hon.

Minister of Finance had declared to the people of this country would fall upon the year 1873-74.

Having stated that much with reference to the question of the deficit, I will now show the hon.

gentleman h,ow the figures really stand.


As I have said I have proved to the House that before, the as surplus the actual irrespec surplus of tive of any change of tariff, would have stood $649,604.41, and I may state that that is only $123,000 over what I stated to the House a year ago would be the surplu~ at the end of the year.

But that is not all.

I ask the hon.

gentleman where isthe surplus that we leftin the Treas ury, d ,,18 from the year 1872-3.
'Ve slwwecl to the Honse tlmt we left in the TreaslU'v a surplus of 81,638,821 on the previOl;s year, and if you add that to the $649,604 ofsurplus for 1873-4that"wouldhave existed on the 1st.

ofJuly, 1874, provided this mis chie'mus meddling with the tariff had becn fivoidcd, in the Treasury now, without new taxation or mlY change in the tariff of the country, from the two years itwoultihave beennolessthan$2,288, 425.40.
And yet "with our affairs in that position-"with our affairs in such a posi tion that on the 1st of July, ] 874, by following ",he policy of their predecessors there was in the hands of the present two millions Government a snm of OVer nnd a quarter - we ,yere compelled to listen to denunciations hurlccl at us from the Treasury benches, on account of our having, as ,vas alleged, created a deficit, and to have it heralded in London and over the world that this defiicit was owing to the manner in which public affairs were administered by the late GoverlUllcnt.
N ow, let me draw the attention of the the ~ condi House for a moment t,o what tion of affairs inherited by the hon.

gentle men, opposite, was, and untier which they complain so bitterly.

\Vhell we ,vere able to show the House and the country that under our administration, the trade of the country had increased in five years from $131,027,928 to no less tll<Ul $217,- surplus the Han.

M1'.

Tupper.

801,203, <»' an increase in five yeal'S of $86,773,671.
I think that the honorable gentleman might have allowed his prede cessors to have escaped his denunciation as to the past financial management of this country.
When we were able to show that the reve.uue of this country had risen under ouradministration from$13,687,928 in 1867~68 to $20,813,469 in 1872-73, an increase of $7,125,541 in five years, I think the honourable gentleman might have felt that something was to be learned from examining the llnancial policy of his predecessors, rather than cast the unde served obloquy on them that he did.
-,-.c\.nd when it is considered tha,t that enormous increase of no less than seven millions of dollars per annum was obtained, in con trasting th.ese fiye years, the first with the last; when it i..q remembered that that was not due to increased taxes as will be to the honourable gentleman's increased revenue which he will be able tD flout in our faceR a year hence, but had been u-ccomplished while at the same time we had made the great stu-pIes of tea, coffee, &c., free and had reducecl the taxation to tho measures of the people, no loss than two millions per annum, we have every reason to court the fullest illvestigation of the policy of my right honourable friend who 110W sits beside me.
.. 1\:11'.

UARTvYRIGHT-How much does my honourable friend say he reduced the taxes?

Two millions?

ill the speech with Hon.

lVIr.

TUPPER-Oyer two millions per annum in the two years preceding 1872 and 1873.

Now.

I have shown the honourable gentleman that he was wrong in his impressions v,rith ::.

'efcrence to the trade of the country, ancl which I do him the justice to say he has frankly and fairly admitted ,..-hich Parliament ,vas opened this session.
I haye shown the honourable gentleman that he was ,vrollg in reference to tho revenue of the country to the extent of something like two millions of dollars, and in refer ence to the expenditure of the country to something like a million and a quarter; and the honourable gentleman himself was compelled to admit that he was seriously wrong in the means by which he proposed to deal with what he conceived to be the financia.l position of the country a yeal' ago.
Every person recollects the measures which werc proposed to this House, anel proposed with seyere strictures that 176 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

to that thought remember and attention the United States to enable received it ought from him.

taxation of last session.

and comments as to the tariff policy of his on wines in a most unsatisfactory condition, predecessor, Sir FRANCIS HINCKS; every- having lost revenue on them,-the hon.

one knows how, that after that the hon.

gentleman shakes his head!


Then I say, gentleman came back to the House, and he should have stated in his address some thing like the results of his tariff bearing reformed his tariff, accepted the criticisms of this side of the House, and tried to get on the condition of the industries and as nearly as he could into the same line branches of trade subjected to the addi tional of policy as the gentleman who had pre- I know the tax is most unjust and unequal a~ it ceded him in that important office.
But the stands to-day.

1 know the tariff on wines there is one question that I honourable gentleman would not have introduced by the hon.

gentleman has the risen from his seat to-day without dealing effect of making the poor poorer and the with.

Every person recollects that when rich richer.


The duties on wines consumed -necessarily consumed, as a matter of the Government of removed the duty from tea and coffee the medicinal treatment, by the poor-are Government of Canada adopted the same largely increased when compared with the, policy and made those great staples free.

wines used by the most luxurious classes When it was found we were to have a of society.
That is a matter not unde imposed on tea and serving the attention of the .Minister duty of ten per cent.

have coffee a.

', against us, that the Government of Finance, Then from Parliament took power there is the question of sugar.

The House them to pass a Minute of Council to meet that policy on the part of the United States, will although the hon.
I may say that the policy of protecting gentleman withdrew the tariff on sugar, the tea importers of Canada by the impo- he· said that would receive the attention session.

There· sition of a ten per cent.

duty on tea from of the Govermuent the United StatGs, was a policy which never was a time when the Hon.

Minister met with a hearty response from eyery of Finance had it in his power to deal I am not aware that a with this question in a manner more just part of Canada.

to the people than at present.


He says we single person approached the Government I say with a view to alter that policy, and I do have a surplus of half a million.

the Government have no right to have a say that the Hon.

Minister of Finance was llot candid to the Honse when, at the last they should surplus.
moment, he slipped a clause into the Bill endeavor to get rid of it, and the best way without mentioning the important change to do so is that pursued by us, and by the he was making in the fiscal policy of the Government of Great Britain-by lighten ing the taxes on the people j and when I country-a change which, not justified in making.

tell you the article of sugar pays in this.

yer, but I do not believe that the change country fifty per cent.
on its cost, while in then made which had the effect of enabling England the Government haye swept the them to repeal our Order in Council des- think the House troyed the power to pass another, but if it will agree with me that the time was most did it was due to the House and the opportune to have used this surplus-not commercial interests of this country that in adjusting the tariff for sugars, as the our traders should have been placed on an hon.
gentleman proposed lu..<;t year, but by such a decrease of duty upon the lower equal footing with our American neigh- Simple justice should ~ave been grades of sugar as might accomplish the hours.

important object the hon.

gentleman had in view done branch of the bringing the or rather what was an important trade, House, and which would be received as a but which, if the suicidal policy of the boon- by the poorer classes of the country.
Government is continued, will soon cease As far as the tariff is concerned, we had to be.

The House will recollet that triumph last year.

As far as the the our hon.

gentleman's duties in relation to revenue is concerned we have our triumph wines received a most important modifica- now.

We stand in the presence of thi:'l tion from his hands under the strictures hon.

House and the country te show tlmt.

the yiews we propounded to the country with which the proposed tariff was met.
I in relation to this matter were sound.

I was in hopes that having still left the tariff I say, he was I am nat a law- tax away altogether, I the country, when large trade of tariff before this the If they have, this and to Bon.

Jlr.

Tupper.

FEBR~ARY 16, 1875.

17i commenced my speech by congratulating the hon.

gentleman on the improved tone of his speech.

Tt will be a matter of congratulation not only to this House but to the country that the Hon.
]finister of Finance, having been "warmed in his seat, and accustomed to the sweets of office, has adopted an alterecl tone, and says to the count,Iy that the position of affairs is not so disastrous as a year ago it seemed to him to be.

I congratulate him on his altered tone, and on the prospect which his altered vie"ws indicate that the Canada Pacific Railway, the hope of this country, will be entered, upon with a viO'or and spirit which certainly did not ch~racterize the Budget speech ;vhich the hon.
member delivered a year ago to this House.

The construction of that work increase the revenue, and year by will year we will find that steady prosperity which obtained under the late Govern ment from the commencement of Confed eration, and "which under a proper Admin istration of Public Affairs will continue in the future.

It being six o'clock the House rose for recess.

- - :++ : - - After Recess.

?\OIlTH WELLINGTON ELECTIOX.

1873-4 he the Acts of IvIr.


SPEAKER stated that on Saturday he had received the Judge's decision iil the North vVellington Election Case.

Under (the SPEAKER) had issued his warrant for a new election immediately.

After it had heen issued the Clerk discovered that the Judge in his certificate had stated that he had 'proceeded under the statute :17 Vict.

that it, from the facts, seemed to have been a clerical error.
He (the SPEAKER) however hesitated to submit his to the Honse until means were taken to ascertain from the Justice whether it was a blunder in the pl'oceedings, 01: a clerical error.

In reply to a telegram he learnt that the pro ceedings were held under the Act of 18 i 3.

He telegraphed to the Judge that it would 1>e necessary to amend the certificate and send it in, when the warrant would be issued again, no proceedings having been taken under the first writ, which was Htoppecl in transit.

report Hon.
report Hon.

:1\11'.

]fACKENZIE thought the SPEAKER was quite right in "waiting for the It would never do amended certificate.

to amend the certificate on a mere tele gram.

Right Hon.

SIr JOHN A. JHACDON ALD thought, under the circumstances, as it would cause only a momentary delay, it would be well to wait until the amended certificate was received before issuing the writ.

THE BGDGET.

in shall Now, House Before occupy for howeyer, of England.

I the reference to the remarks of Hon.

l\Ir.


TUPPER resumed his speech.

'Vhen the House rose I was about to make a brief the Minister of Finance touching the important subject which he has submitted to the House with reference to the lmms negoti doing ated so, the a attention few moments longer in relation to another very important branch of the speech which the Hon.

:Minister of Finance has just delivered to the House.
I mean that referring to the estima,tes of the present the House will remember year.

that there was no subject upon which that hon.

gentleman has dilated more forcibly during the past four years than the charge:-; of extravagance which he brought against the late Administration.

No Budget ,vas eyer submitted from the time that the hon.

gentleman went into opposition to the lat(· Goyernment without the yery severest stric tures being leyelled against 'it by that hOll.
gentleman, on the ground of recklessness and extravagance, and the hon.

gentleman from his seat 011 the Treasury benches, followed up the same course last session, and in terms-.

the strongest that he could possibly use characterized the action of his predecessors in reference to the expendi ture whidl they from time to time suh mitted to the House, as in the last degrcf' uncalled for and extr~tyagant.

I,Yill read a single passage from the hon.


gentleman's referring to that speech of last session, arc quit0 matter.
"prepn,recl responsibility to "the fullest extent for any act of their they are no't disposed tt) "OW11; " assume, nor will their snpporters or th(~ " country at large expect them to assume, "any responsibility for their " predecessors against which they protested " to tIle utmost; which they opposed at " eyery stage from their inception onward, "and for the results of ,,,hich they are "The Government to assume acts of hut Ilon.

111/'.

1up}Ja L "