Product: Mortgage

I am a current customer of Rocket Mortgage. I wanted to refinance my mortgage while rates are so good. I Rocket called and got a broker names XXXX. XXXX. He assured me in writing 9 times, via text that he would create a 23 year " Yourgage '' at 3.75 % Zero points. He repeatedly told me that 3.75 at zero points was agreed on, however, he would post a totally different disclosures at 3.75 % with points from 1.5 to 3 points, and then he'd defend that decision saying that is the best the market can do, but hed then tell me several times again Id get 3.75 I'd get zero points. XXXX also has never posted a final loan estimate packet, which is easiest to read, instead he posted 3 separate and different loan re-disclosure forms which are not easy to read. It is my OPINION XXXX delayed posting these interest rate disclosures and he refused to post the Loan Estimate packet because he was likely waiting until rates increased again before releasing the document, at which time I would be stuck, and hed still be compliant by eventually giving me the documents required by law. I started this process on Monday XX/XX/XXXX and I withdrew my application for refinance Friday XX/XX/XXXX. I just wanted someone to know that Rocket Mortgage in my opinion deceived me on at least 9 occasions, and I am concerned if it is not just me who else are they taking advantage of. Here is a transcript, unedited of all my texts between me and XXXX at Rocket Loans. Note as I got more and more upset, I began to just call him Liar. Not my best moments. 
Text Exchange, unedited : -- -- -- Monday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Let me know if you need any help with e-signatures. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Will do XXXX Me ( XXXX XXXX ) All signed, pay stub emailed. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX  ) Please confirm nothing else needed from me thanks XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) We are good to go! Keep an ear by the phone, appraiser will be reaching out next Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok, sounds great Me ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX, what appraised value on out home gets us to the next pricing tier? Was it XXXX???? I did not write that down. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Our home XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) yup! XXXX Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Hey j looked thru the loan estimate and I was totally shocked to see 3 origination points out there. That is a ton, especially if I look outside of Rocket where I see tons of rates for my situation under 3.75 at 1 point for that? I even called a local bank I was told over the phone they could beat the 3.75 and do no points. XXXX in points for someone in my situation and 3.75 seems really really high as I look at the details. This is causing me to pause. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX honestly I am literally out the door shopping today if what I am being told outside of rockets estimate is firm and accurate XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'm going to make sure we take good care of you throughout this process, again I want to be as conservative as possible. My pricing director is going to take care of us when it comes to pts. We just want a firm value to work with XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) post appraisal XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll make sure to send a re-disclosure out. I want to let everything fall in place post appraisal. When it comes to the pts I'll make sure we get you the best approved pricing possible. 


XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Other lenders will tell you anything to get foot in the door. I'd rather be conservative and honest on what I can close on in a worse case scenario. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok thanks XXXX, 3 points really shocked me. Let 's stay the course for now and see where the appraiser lands and go from there. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'm not going to have you pay 3 pts on this, even if the home appraises lower. We want to make sure we keep you right here at QL with the best possible refi option. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks XXXX I appreciate it! 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Screenshot_20190916-230608_Adobe_Acrobat.jpg 625.6 kB Hi XXXX, late text, I paid zero points to you when I originated my loan at a higher rate. I really would expect zero points for this refi. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) No need to call tomorrow, the more I think of it, in this market points paid by the borrower at 3.75, any points is throwing money away. That said before I pay for an appraisal I do need this portion ironed out on paper, or I will need to do my due diligence and walk over to the bank who quoted me today, zero points and possible better rate. No offense, this is cash out of pocket. So please let me know the deal in points we can talk rate after an appraisal. Almost 14k in points is simply insane. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX, the delta on my interest rate on my current loan and apr on my current loan is ... .... 
.009 %. The delta on the refi between interest rate and apr is a HUGE .357 %! I am hopeful these texts are arriving not on your phone but at work. My day is packed and I have little time. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) So I closing tonight. Tomorrow, I need confirmation that I will have zero points, or I will need to pause and start making other calls. I need this decided for me tomorrow. If you look back at my prior almost refi, this is not bluff, I walked 1 half way thru the process, I just won't waste XXXX bucks to an appraiser to figure it out first. Sorry XXXX, time is short and I need rush this through QL or start asking around. XXXX XXXX in  points is just plain insane. 

-- -- -- Tuesday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX, thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at a no point option. Again, any lender in America has to base pricing off the final appraised value. You are a serviced client of ours, we are going to do everything we can to get you the best XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) possible option. Would you be open to a slightly higher rate at 0 points? Let me know what you think, I want to make sure this is perfect for you and the fam Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Hi XXXX if you could let me know the best QL can offer relative to points at 3.75? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Based off the conservative value we would be able to get down to 1.5. However at 70 % LTV we could cover all points. This is the beauty of being a direct lender, we can assess the risk base pricing upfront. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'm going to do everything on my end to make sure we get you the best loan to close with the easiest process. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) So if the appraiser comes back giving us 70 % we could be 0 points and if XXXX, 3.625, 0 points? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Otherwise as is, 1.5 points if XXXX on the value still? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) correct, the final pricing is all dictated on the appraised value. Like I said, I want to be as conservative on pricing up front and let things fall into place as we close -- -- -- Wednesday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX  ) Hi XXXX. The appraiser will be out tomorrow. I also saw the fed cut rates another 1/4 point today affecting mortgage rates, will QL react and lower rates overall and will it affect my application, refi? 

-- -- -- Thursday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'm going to see if the pricing will be affected, if there is any discount I can apply due to a pricing cut by feds I'll surely apply for you guys Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks XXXX, from your most pain in the XXXX customer. I really do appreciate your patience. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) No way! you're the man : ) Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I get wound up in the details man. I appreciate your patience! 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Appraiser just left, any idea how long before it comes in? Ie what is the norm? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) next couple days, I'll keep an eye out -- -- -- Monday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Hey XXXX, appraisal came back at XXXX! I am in meetings All day tomorrow. Could you send me best rate, hopefully no points, given ltv and my personal situation? Obviously no pmi, lower rate I think and no points? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I may ask for a bot more cash out depending on what you and me, so please text or update the good faith estimate in docs. Thanks man! 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) But Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Bit -- -- -- Wednesday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I can get us a 3.5 % fixed rate at 2.5 pts ( half a pt less in cost! ) OR I can keep the 3.75 % and cover pts on that. pricing has definitely improved with the higher value : ) Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Is 2.5 points the absolute best you can do at 3.5 %? I can not understand 2.5 % in points for a .25 % improvement in rate. Can you explain that, it makes no sense. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Generally in my experience 1 point in rate equals 1 origination point. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I haven't submitted to my pricing director yet,  we are going to get it down as low as humanly possible. I should know within the day. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I please check and look at my history. In XXXX I walked away from a refi with you, when I reached an impasse, I'll do the same here. Except I will move on to another lender. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I need 0 points. When I took my loan out, a selling point was other than fixed costs, closing costs at RM would not be repeated, I clarified this as points. Maybe I misunderstood. I PROMISE. look at my history last spring I will walk. I PROMISE. perfect credit, no debt, nice LTV, your risk is nil with me Me ( XXXX XXXX ) The only difference between now and last spring is I will leave XXXX Me ( XXXX XXXX ) 2.5 points paid for a quarter point is INSANE XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok, I'll take care of it. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks XXXX, I do appreciate it. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) So do we want no points at the 3.75 %? This would increase the cash out significantly and essentially eliminate the cost OR we could look at a little lower interest, I don't know if I can promise it will be ZERO points. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I was looking for 0 points at 3.5. How can there be 2.5 points to reduce the rate by .25 percent?? That makes zero sense to me. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) If you can not, please tell me and I will pause and look elsewhere to confirm I am am correct. If i am, i and I can get 3.5 at 0 points I walk. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Pricing is dictated by the federal reserve. We have to understand 3.75 % or 3.5 % is insanely lower fixed interest. It's good we locked in when we did, pricing has only increased since this impeachment stuff has taken place. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'm going to give you the best possible pricing available on a fixed rate mortgage whether it's the 3.75 % or the 3.5 %. The lower rate is more of a buydown. I'd take 3.75 % with more cash out and cost essentially eliminated Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I get it is a buy down, but what I do not understand is 1 quarter point equaling 2.5 origination points. 
So I hear you, I respectfully can not agree that this is equitable. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll start making some calls. Time is short for me here. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) What is the apr on 3.5 with 2.5 points? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Like I said, let me have my pricing director make adjustments. I don't know what the final buy down is with the updated value. I hope you can respect and appreciate my honesty and transparency. 


Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I do my friend, I am in my business mode, so do not take my directness as offense, please. I just need facts. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) All I have is facts, like I said we are going to get you the industry best on pricing. We will also be able to close very quick Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Very good. Just let me know, I need to know apr of 3.5 percent at 2.5 origination points. I suspect it is equal or greater than 3.75 no points. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll let you know ASAP my friend -- -- -- Thursday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks XXXX, was travelling the balance of the day yesterday and on calls most of this morning. Again, you are great man, so do not take my tone as one of  dissatisfaction. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) You're the man! I'm working on final pricining with VP now XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) pricing* Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks XXXX XXXX I appreciate your efforts! 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) And I do get wound up, my apologies for that. Something I work on NOT doing! 

-- -- -- Friday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) HXXXX XXXX, just checking in to see where you were relative to your inquiries with the VP of pricing. Thanks in advance. 

-- -- -- Monday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Hey XXXX, time is passing and I've not heard from you guys in a bit. Please advise the status XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I've been out sick the last couple days. Good news, we are good to go at 3.625 % ( lower rate ) at 1.75 pts. This takes you out of the 3.75 % at 3 points. You are saving over 10k on cost with a lower rate! 


XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Cash back to you has also increased Me ( XXXX XXXX ) 1 question, earlier you still stated in this thread 3.75 and 0 points. Is that still an option? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) From you last Wednesday : Me ( XXXX XXXX ) So do we want no points at the 3.75 %? This would increase the cash out significantly and essentially eliminate the cost OR we could look at a little lower interest, I don't know if I can promise it will be ZERO points. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I can get us a 3.5 % fixed rate at 2.5 pts ( half a pt less in cost! ) OR I can keep the 3.75 % and cover pts on that. pricing has definitely improved with the higher value : ) XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I can submit that option again, I want to make sure I'm getting the most amount of savings on interest over the life of the loan while getting you the necessary cash out XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) the 3.625 % will get you XXXX cash at close. You think this will be enough? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) No, I had asked for XXXX out if you recall, let me know on the 3.75 no points. You told me that was available to me 5 days ago, I expect that to be honored. I need to know now also, I'm waiting no more on this. You all budged nothing o what I was asking, I asked for for you say XXXX cash out. You offer 3.75 no points and now you imply you have to ask again. XXXX this is very disappointing. I feel like this is a textbook bait and switch. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) And based on the new pricing I may want more than XXXX out. Now i am truly frustrated. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Resized_Screenshot_20190930-102313_Messages.jpeg 510.5 kB XXXX I do not know which way is up. I read back and I asked a direct question, you gave me a direct answer. You said 3.625 and no points would happen I'd my appraisal exceeded XXXX. Here is our exchange. If you give me any other answer, I need to speak to a vp of pricing and Express my dissatisfaction with these inconsistencies. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll submit 3.75 % at zero pints. I'm letting you know exactly what I can close on. I need you to make a decision on which way you want to go. Like I stated upfront pricing has gotten significantly better post appraisal. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) So if pricing has gotten better post appraisal and as your text seem to say copied above 3.625 no points, I am at a loss. Submit what you will, I'll not pay a point. I am out of here under 2 conditions, if I do not hear back today by XXXX, I walk, if I do not hear the rate I want, by XXXX, I walk. This process honestly has been terrible. I prior XXXX out and highlighted the contradictions in this text stream and I'm pretty shocked. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I have you approved for 3.75 % covering the points getting you XXXX cash at close. Let 's get this loan closed. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Am I able to get any more than XXXX out? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I mean what is the max i can take out? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) If we exceed 70 % LTV pricing will adjust again. Like I said from day one ... your cost has decreased over 10k due to higher value, this money is being allocated towards your cash out. I'm getting you pricing I could not even get approved on. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX  ) I can technically get you an additional XXXX, this will take loan to 80 % LTV. I can't do 80 % LTV for zero points and this will increase he monthly payment. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok 3.75 0 points. Max the cash out as close to 70 percent ltv as possible. Please send me the loan estimate when able with the locked in munbers. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Will do -- -- -- Tuesday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Any update on the loan estimate package so I can see all that we discussed on paper? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Yes, disclosure should be available this evening. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Nothing has posted, I am specifically looking for the loan estimate package, good faith estimate, the breakdown of costs please. I need it in writing asap. We are 2 weeks in I believe. 

-- -- -- Wednesday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll resubmit. The rediscloses should be updated Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok Me ( XXXX XXXX ) And to be clear, I really want the break down of costs, a good faith estimate, whatever yall call it. Loan estimate package? I need to know exactly where all money is allotted well prior to closing. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Absolutely, by law I need to provide you the entire breakdown of the loan. Documents will look exactly like initial ones Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Great thanks. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Fyi, still no new information posted. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I'll contact my tech guys, disclosures should be posting Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Thanks Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Still nothing -- -- -- Thursday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Still nothing and to clarify, I will get all of the numbers to view today?? I can not wait until 2 days before closing. It took you 24 hours to create this last time, can you do the same today. Please? 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) There seemed to be an issue loading docs into your Rocket Account, I should have everything uploaded by XXXX XXXX Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Fyi, approaching XXXX day 4, still nothing Me ( XXXX XXXX ) After 3. Still nothing. I am not even upset or surprised anymore. All I want are the figure we discussed, I writing. Email me. Text me. Forget the app. I just need to see the figures. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) The form, not just the rough figures. I need to know every penny I am spending Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Oh well. Nothing. Well, rates seem to be dropping again, I am shopping again. Would appreciate your good faith estimate at some point. If I get a better rate with a prior broker I've used, I'm gone. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Of no better rate, I will stay. If I do get a better rate though, that is between me and my broker and I will not initiate a bidding contest, I'll just be gone. This really has not been easy, it has not been fun. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) We've been texting for 19 days for heaven sake and I can not even get a piece of paper to see what you are charging me. 

-- -- -- Friday, XX/XX/2019 -- -- -- XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) My apologies, we had a company meeting yesterday. Disclosures were sent out at noon yesterday. Everything is updated Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I am working with my former broker now, I'll know shortly whether I stay or move my loan Me ( XXXX XXXX  ) Still nothing posted by the way. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Nothing. Good lord. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Resized_Screenshot_20191004-092202_Adobe_Acrobat.jpeg 894.8 kB I dont even know what this is. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) 3.5 %? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) And another disclosure, where dis this discount fee come from, it wasn't on my original loan application process? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Resized_Screenshot_20191004-092202_Adobe_Acrobat.jpeg 894.8 kB XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I sent the docs out for the 3.75 % yesterday. You are probably looking at old disclosure aT 3.5 % Me ( XXXX XXXX ) What about the points, the alleged new one shows me paying over 7k o. Points dated XX/XX/XXXX? This redisclosure show you sneaking by almost 1.5 points. I am disgusted. If I was less educated or careful and didn't understand youd be screwing me every way you can. I am out bud. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Ought to be ashamed of yourselves. 

Me ( XXXX AM ) Delay the loan estimate package until the final hour, sneak almost 1.5 point by me in this redisclosure package, hope I dont see if and hope rates are so high at closing I am screwed? Ok I am out. Your strategy is clear. Do NOTHING MORE ON THIS REFI. MY LOAN WILL BE PAID ON FULL IN 30BDAYS OR LESS. CROOKS. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Company meeting at Rocket. Hmmm. How to steal cash from customers. I got it. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) I've got to put the phone down after this, but you expect me to believe that you had a company meeting where all work stopped across the country for 8 hours? 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Do NOT text me back, ever. I am done with you and your den of thieves. Another message will juat make my head explode I am so furious with you and your crooked company Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Why would you treat a person like this? I am shaking I am so furious thinking about all of the elderly or uneducated or folks ignorant of the process you XXXX gleefully daily I expect. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) By the way my broker beat your rate and is giving me a written float down guarantee. Crooks. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I told you the pricing would shift in your favor if the home appraised for more, the home appraised for more and the pricing shifted in your favor. I have you approved on the best possible pricing I can get. You can shop all you want but I have XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) applied as many discounts to this as possible. You can't just demand a certain rate at 0 points, it's not home mortgages are priced. I'm giving you the best I possibly can. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Stop it. You liar. You lied. You told me youd cover all points. Now go away and do not condescend to me kid. Go XXXX an easier mark. Read your XXXX texts. You liar XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) You were asking for 3.5 % at zero points, I've got the best possible pricing approved. If you want to shop go for it, I can withdraw the loan application. It's up to you, the loan accomplishes all your goals. It's pricing I couldn't even get on my hom Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Nope liar. 3.75 percent 0 points is what we agreed to monday. Read your text. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Resized_Screenshot_20191004-101829_Messages.jpeg 428.5 kB Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Oh yes, withdraw my application pack of thieves. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I submitted for 0 points, I cant control the pricing on a mortgage ... I have it approved the best I can at that rate. I'll withdraw the loan. This is about as good of pricing that you'll find, if you want to shop you can but I can keep this on ice Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Why did you lie to me. Read your words withdraw this loan app and never talk to me again. I'll be posting this text stream on social media XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I submitted the loan for 0 points, I apologize I really do. I wish I could do the 3.5 % at 0 pts but I have to offer what the bond market provides. I wouldn't have you close or sign on anything without visibility. This is the best I can offer. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I should never have talked about pricing before my team got back, I do apologize. This is the best I can possibly do at the 3.75 %. I understand if you want to stop the process. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Dude, 3.75 at 0 points. Dont pretend we are still talking about 3.5. Your last redisclosure from yesterday is 3.85 at almost 1.5 points. Withdraw my loan liar. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Liar. Bait and switch. Wait until the end before I discover your lie. Too late then. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Liar. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Withdraw the loan. Now. My broker has already beaten your best lie, in writing. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) XXXX, you haven't signed anything, the loan actually has gotten significantly better since when we first started. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok no problem, I wish you the best. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Poor XXXX Rocket customers. I will tell this story everywhere With draw the loan liar. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Oh and I downloaded another disclosure from Monday zero points. 3.75. You guys are awful people XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Yes I submitted it for you. and the pricing got declined XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) I've been honest with you, I've been trying. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) But it sounds like you have an even better offer approved. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) An honest one Me ( XXXX XXXX ) You must've known it was not approved then, why did you wait for me to discover it. Hoping I would not notice? Liar. 

XXXX ( XXXX XXXX ) Ok enough with the name calling. If you have a better offer go with it. I've tried to submit for 0 pts on 3.75 %, it got declined. I've given you the best I've got. 

Me ( XXXX XXXX ) Goodbye. You know what you are Me ( XXXX XXXX ) 9 times in this thread you assured me in my situation 3.75 at 0 points. I can not wait to post this entire exchange on XXXX, XXXX, send it to the XXXX, your ceo. Wow. I hope you can sleep at night. Couldn't help but point out the 9 lies you told me I can count. My broker said that he get 4 or 5 customers a month telling him the same story about Rocket.  Sneaking points and costs by. And I thought you were just bad at your job. Maybe you are really good at lying. Good night.