Product: Vehicle loan or lease

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : As sent to XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX with Modifications for CFPB informational purposes. 

Kia Complaint XXXX : Kia Motor Finance XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX Below is a timeline regarding the purchase of a XXXX Kia XXXX  with percieved contract issues. This Email is the culmination of 8 months of attempted fact finding as a result of approximately 60 calls to Kia Finance, Kia Corporate, over a hundred hours of phone time, XXXX  discussions at XXXX XXXX ( With XXXX XXXX XXXX ) XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Purchased XXXX Kia XXXX XXXX  Line at XXXX Kia. General Manager XXXX XXXX, XXXX XXXX XXXX - Left Dealership at approximately XXXX PM. 
- Left Trade ( XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX ) XXXX XXXX at dealership and was given a loaner XXXX XXXX as my vehical was not ready for delivery. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : - I was in the area of XXXX Kia as I was checking on my XXXX XXXX being serviced at nearby XXXX XXXX and stopped into XXXX Kia to ask a few questions about XXXX  in general. 
- A salesman came up to me and asked if I were interested in buying a new XXXX. We talked for a bit and I explained that I had just purchased one at XXXX Kia. He asked what kind and I stated XXXX line. I told him that was not too overly familiar but, I thought that I would have preferred a XXXX or XXXX. He stated that he had a XXXX come in recently in a XXXX that I actually preferred over the vehicle at XXXX. 
- He then took me inside and introduced me to XXXX XXXX XXXX who was up behind the raised sales area with his sales XXXX and other personnel. I explained that I had already purchased a vehicle but it would have been nice if I had bought a higher model line. XXXX XXXX asked if they had delivered the vehicle. I told him that they had not as it was still being prepped. 
- He told me that I didn't have to buy the vehicle from XXXX and I could buy his upgraded XXXX. I knew both dealerships were under XXXX ownership. I agreed to purchase from XXXX under the VERY VERY expressed condition that XXXX deal with XXXX in all matters pertaining to and including ; informing them of the new transaction, picking up the trade, taking back the loaner. I was crystal clear about this condition and XXXX XXXX and his Sales Manager both agreed that they would take care of everything with XXXX. 
- Purchased a XXXX Kia XXXX XXXX XXXX from XXXX Kia Genera Manager XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX Vehicle Traded XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX miles on Odometer : Vehicle had been nearly undrivable due to smell. Vehicle issued recall. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Received approximately 20 calls and texts from XXXX KIA XXXX Mostly From XXXX XXXX asking when i was going to take delivery of my XXXX purchased from them. 
- I did not respond until Monday the XXXX as i was under the impression that XXXX XXXX and staff would eventually take care of the issue. 
- I suggested they contact XXXX Kia XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Received call from XXXX XXXX that they had transferred both the vehicle and the deal back ( XXXX Kia XXXX XXXX ) to XXXX Kia and asked that I go to XXXX and sign new paperwork to purchase the vehicle. He gave me no reason and I was not too happy having to go back and sign another contract but I told him that I would go and take care of that on the XXXX. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Went to XXXX Kia and talked directly to the General XXXX, XXXX XXXX XXXX. He stated that the vehicle deal was now owned by their dealership but the deal would have slightly different numbers as they had certain dealership adds. 
- I then stated that I would no longer be interested in purchasing the vehicle. I told him that I was done being run all over town and people not doing what they stated what they would do. I then asked to be given my trade back. XXXX XXXX declined to give me back my trade. 
- XXXX XXXX stepped out of his office and called XXXX XXXX ( talking to him for approximately 3 minutes ) and then put me on the phone with XXXX XXXX. XXXX XXXX also declined to give back my trade. He stated that he still had an active deal in place at his dealership and that I would now have to take delivery of the car through his dealership. I went back to XXXX Kia and left the XXXX there to complete delivery work ( Window tint and other assorted items ) XXXX XXXX apologized for the run around and added some free service coupons to the deal. I did not sign a new deal or do any additional paperwork on that day. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Picked up my XXXX XXXX - Went into XXXX XXXX 's office and asked him to remove the Gap Insurance ( {$77000.00} ) and the Extended Warranty ( XXXX ) - XXXX XXXX stated that i should see something back on that in about 30 days XXXX XXXX XXXX Hrs : Received a call from XXXX XXXX stating that I needed come in and sign all new paperwork for the XXXX XXXX XXXX. He stated that Kia Motors had been hacked and that they had lost all of my paperwork. He stated that it in addition to myself, it had also affected XXXX  of his other customers. I told him that i would not be able to make it in for a bit as my friends brother was in the hospital XXXX of XXXX in XXXX XXXX and that I also had a sick dog and told him that i was at the Vets office as we spoke. I told him that I would be in as soon as I could to sign all new paperwork. 
* NOTE : In at least XXXX separate conversations with supervisors from KIA/Hyudai Motor Finance that my financial records had in no way been hacked. They stated that would have been a matter of significant importance and that I would have been notified immediately through multiple methods 15 XX/XX/XXXX XXXX : Called into KIA Motor Finance XXXX 
- Attempted to make a payment and set up an auto pay. Was told that there was no longer a loan on the vehicle and that it showed paid. Loan number XXXX. I was told that nothing could be done regarding the account. No payments could be made ; no auto payment could be set up. 
- I asked Kia to make notes in my account stating that i had called and attempted to make a payment and set up an auto payment. 
- Due to the call from XXXX XXXX and info from Kia Motor Finance, I immediately stopped driving the vehical until I could determine what was going on. Vehicle had XXXX miles. 
- Current mileage on auto is XXXX miles. 

XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX Numerous calls made to KIA/Hyundai motor finance as to status of account. No joy ; account still showed closed XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Letter sent from KIA Finance. 
XXXX Retail installment Contract dated XX/XX/XXXX Vehicle XXXX Kia XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX. Congratulations! Our records reflect that your retail installment contract, referenced above is paid in full. 

XXXX XXXX XXXX : Went in person to talk to XXXX XXXX and XXXX XXXX XXXX. First Discussion was with XXXX XXXX : - He reiterated that Kia was hacked, hence the issues with my contract. They were not able to book the original loan ; later in the conversation he stated that they were able to re-book the original loan. 
- I asked at that time when the Gap ( XXXX ) and the extended warranty ( XXXX ) would be coming off the loan. I had gone into the dealership on XXXX XX/XX/XXXX and asked XXXX XXXX to take off the XXXX items and again on XXXX XXXX. He stated that it would come off in 4 to 6 Weeks. 
- He stated that they had " found '' the original contract. I asked for a copy. 
- He stated that he could get in " on the backside '' in certain circumstances make some changes. 
- He stated that internally that the dealership they made a payment on the vehicle - At that time, I did not know the whereabouts of my original documents on the thumb drive provided at the time of purchase as provided to me by XXXX XXXX - I told him that since the call from XXXX XXXX and the call to Kia that i stopped driving the car. 
- He stated that he would ask for a signed copy of the contract from Kia and Email it to me. 
XXXX. Second conversation with XXXX XXXX ( same place-same date ) - XXXX XXXX again stated that Kia had been hacked. His language this time was different. The first time he told me that Kia was hacked and all my paperwork was lost. This time he the stated that Kia went down and the information was unavailable to them. 
- He stated that they found the original loan. 


XXXX XXXX XXXX Received copy of contract via Email from XXXX XXXX XXXX PDF had Copy and Customer Copy superimposed on the document ) XXXX XX/XX/XXXX RETAIL INSTALLMENT SAME CONTRACT-SIMPLE FINANCE CHARGE ( WITH ARBITRATION PROVISION ) - By that date I had found my original thumb drive recieved on XXXX XX/XX/XXXX - Contract mailed by XXXX XXXX did not match ( PURCHASE DATE SIGNATURE ) contract on Thumb Drive - Signatures on contract mailed from XXXX XXXX does not match any on thumb drive. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Asked XXXX XXXX via mail if he had a copy of my complete package I received on XXXX XX/XX/XXXX - No reply XXXX XX/XX/XXXX : Per suggestion from Kia Motor Finance, I filled an official complaint against XXXX Kia with Kia XXXX - XXXX Hours : Within 30 minutes I received a call from XXXX XXXX yelling at me threatening to sue me. 
- XXXX Call from XXXX XXXX threatening to sue me for liable. 
- XXXX call from myself to Kia Corporate asking that they call XXXX XXXX and ask them to not call me until they had completed research. 
- XXXX Calls from XXXX XXXX XXXX. XXXX : Answered XXXX XXXX and we talked for XXXX Minutes. 
-I began by trying to explain my concern and lack of knowledge as to why I had XXXX contracts for my vehicle. 
XXXX XXXX STATED : It was not possible for there to be XXXX contracts. " We did our due diligence and had cancelled the XXXX Kia XXXX contract. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that we would have sent you over to another dealer with the possibility of XXXX contracts. 
-Towards the end of the conversation, XXXX XXXX XXXX me what we need to do to resolve the situation. 
A. I told him that I needed to have the dealership come and pick up the XXXX, pay off the XXXX, and give me a vehicle equal in value to my XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX that they took in trade - XXXX XXXX stated that is something that they could do but, he would like me to mail him a copy of the contract that was sent to me by him by way of Kia and my copy of the contract that was given to me on the day of purchase. I told him that i could do that. 

XXXX XXXX XXXX PM : Sent an Email to XXXX XXXX asking him : XXXX. Just wanted to double check to see if we can progress XXXX. Do you ( XXXX XXXX ) have the horsepower there ( as a part of management ) to go back in time? ( Hypothetically ) XXXX. Take back XXXX XXXX, payoff loan, current mileage on XXXX is XXXX miles XXXX. Found a suitable vehical, XXXX Kia, Cost to me would be XXXX including taxes and registration. XXXX is what I owed on My XXXX XXXX XXXX time of trade. 
NO REPLY-NO MORE CONTACT WITH DEALER TO PRESENT TIME From : XXXX XX/XX/XXXX to XX/XX/XXXX there have been zero explanations as to : XXXX. Why the vehicle deal was transferred back from XXXX Kia to XXXX Kia? 
XXXX. Why did the Finance Manager state that the XXXX deal was cancelled before being transferred back? 
A. Why would the GM ( XXXX XXXX ) say that there was still a deal in place ( Via Phone call from XXXX XXXX cell to XXXX XXXX ) if the deal had been cancelled at XXXX as per XXXX XXXX? 
XXXX. Why did the GM call in XXXX and state there was a hack and all the paperwork was lost and i needed to resign it again? 
A. With " no '' paperwork, how did the Kia get plated/Registered? 
B. With no paperwork, how did my trade get sold? 
XXXX XXXX Separate Supervisors at Kia finance stated unequivocally that there were no hacks what so ever to customers finance paperwork. 
XXXX. How and with what funds was the first contract paid off. 
XXXX. Why was a new contract started in XXXX? 
A .Why was a payment made in XXXX to a second contract and dated back to the original start date of XXXX XXXX? 
XXXX. Why in some of the Kia systems do both contracts have the same start date of XXXX XXXX but most systems show a XXXX XXXX start ( 61 days past original ) XXXX XXXX made an ineffectual effort to try and explain the all the oddities. **** Looking back in retrospect****They only feigned an attempt to explain XXXX contracts when in fact KIA FINANCIAL ENGAGED IN CONTRACT FRAUD, by never explaining the details of XXXX contracts and in fact assisted XXXX Kia in fabricating a second contract ( XXXX without my signature ) Info by Kia Finance throughout process : 1. I was told once that there were XXXX contracts because there were XXXX VIN numbers but after a recheck. Both contracts had the same VIN XXXX. I was told that I must have gone in and signed a new contract. I explained that even though I was asked to, I only signed XXXX. XXXX XX/XX/XXXX XXXX. They could not explain why so many items looked as though they were back dated. 
A. They ( STATED ) that they made an attempt to get some answers and called the business office and were told that normally they could explain why certain things were done to contracts but this one was in the exclusive arena of XXXX XXXX. Calls to XXXX XXXX from Kia Motor Finance went un-answered and no calls returned. ( SO THEY STATED ) B. After no response from XXXX XXXX to Kia Finance, Kia Finance gave me the number to Kia Consumer Affairs and suggested I file an official complaint. 
C. They also stated that I should file a police report. 
a. I stated that it was not a police matter per say and that I would have to file a complaint with the Arizona State Attorney General and the Arizon Department of Transportation, Dealer Investigations. 
b. I stated that it was my preference to keep working at the lowest levels hence my conversations with XXXX XXXX, XXXX XXXX XXXX, Kia Finance and Kia Customer Service. 
To the best of my knowledge, every call to Kia since XXXX XXXX has been recorded. I have phone records for every call dialed into and out of my phone since XX/XX/XXXX, copies of all emails, original digital paperwork, Payoff letter on contract XXXX and of course Kia Financial has their records,. 


It is my considered opinion that the contract from XXXX Kia was indeed cancelled before I was sent back to XXXX XXXX. I believe it because that is what XXXX XXXX told me XXXX. I believe it because the original went paid and therefore disappeared ( PER KIA CORPERATE ) XXXX. I believe it because XXXX XXXX asked me to come in and sign all new paperwork. 
XXXX. I believe that I had " NO '' valid contract at the time that I asked for my XXXX back. If that in fact is the case, then I am not the owner of XXXX. That is why I stopped driving the vehicle after my XXXX XXXX phone call to Kia Finance and it currently sits at XXXX miles. 
XXXX. If in fact there was no contract as of XXXX XXXX, then my XXXX was not legally available for the dealer to sell. 

XXXX XXXX I would sincerely appreciate any assistance that you can provide in explaining the happenings form XX/XX/XXXX to present and anything else that you might be able to do to rectify the situation. Kia Finance, Kia Corporate has offered 3 remedies, 1. Get it worked out with Dealer ownership. 
XXXX. Hire a lawyer XXXX. File a police complaint ; which would put a slowdown to any events from Kia Motor Finance Kia is currently showing the account ( XXXX loan which i did not sign ) Charged Off Kia Complaint : XXXX Currently Stems from the failure of XXXX XXXX to remove the charges for the GAP and Extended Warranty. 

Since my return from a XXXX assignment in XXXX, I have owned over XXXX cars, all for pleasure, none for profit. In that time, I have only purchased XXXX brand new vehicles, XXXX XXXX XXXX Platinum, A XXXX XXXX XXXX and XXXX all from XXXX. I have been a loyal customer to include service work. 

Please feel free to contact me at any time with questions of if you would like to see any documents. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx at any time. 
If I miss a call, it is because I am extremely hard of hearing. A text is is easier for me to see to respond. 

Thank you. END OF MAIL AS SENT TO XXXX  XXXX IN XX/XX/XXXX ( WITH A FEW EDITS FOR CFPB COMPLAINT. 

XXXX XX/XX/XXXX Engaged the Services of XXXX and XXXX XXXX to assist with Kia Financial