"It seems to me that thereÂ ’ s a divide between Creationists and materialists ... ( well lots of them , actually ) . < snip > ThatÂ ’ s why anytime a Christian points to any evidence such as the power of prayer , the mind , the mind/body connection , the placebo effect , consciousness , mental abilities , spirituality , or any other trait that can not be explained materialistically , itÂ ’ s quickly asserted that these are not Â “ science.Â ”"
"Well , that 's not quite right . Science is a methodology for investigating phenomena , not an enumeration of them . So it is perfectly possible to scientifically investigate , say , the power of prayer . Consider for a moment what you actually mean by 'materialistically ' : what is it that defines something as being material ? Gravity is every bit as intangible as a miracle , yet you would automatically characterise it as being part of the material world . Why ? The answer is that it is amenable to the scientific method : assertions about gravity can be repeatably tested . If ghosts and poltergeists were amenable to the same methodology , it would be possible to construct scientific theories concerning those , too , and they would be considered no more exotic or 'supernatural ' than clouds or rainbows . When you get your head around that , it 's immediately apparent that it is n't the power of prayer or spirituality per se that are n't scientific , it 's the methodology people have for dealing with them . Indeed , when the scientific method is applied and does n't yield the results believers in such matters want , the typical response is to come up with excuses why we should n't expect the scientific method to work . Unfortunately you ca n't have it both ways ; if you want to come to the party you have to adopt the dress code . Really , none of this would be a problem if science did n't have a ( from a religious perspective ) nasty habit of finding explanations for , or hidden and unexpected complexities within , features of the material world about which religious texts or leaders had already made firm pronouncements . Because despite the fact that you , SS , and others see science and evolution as an enemy of your philosophy and spirituality , the actual bone of contention is always in the material world . So who 's really treading on whose toes here ? It 's your choice to shackle your spirituality to a particular - and demonstrably wrong - version of material events , SS , not mine ."
"It seems to me that thereÂ ’ s a divide between Creationists and materialists ... ( well lots of them , actually ) . ThatÂ ’ s why anytime a Christian points to any evidence such as the power of prayer , the mind , the mind/body connection , the placebo effect , consciousness , mental abilities , spirituality , or any other trait that can not be explained materialistically , itÂ ’ s quickly asserted that these are not Â science.Â"
"Well , that 's not quite right . Science is a methodology for investigating phenomena , not an enumeration of them . So it is perfectly possible to scientifically investigate , say , the power of prayer . Consider for a moment what you actually mean by 'materialistically ' : what is it that defines something as being material ? Gravity is every bit as intangible as a miracle , yet you would automatically characterise it as being part of the material world . Why ? The answer is that it is amenable to the scientific method : assertions about gravity can be repeatably tested . If ghosts and poltergeists were amenable to the same methodology , it would be possible to construct scientific theories concerning those , too , and they would be considered no more exotic or 'supernatural ' than clouds or rainbows . When you get your head around that , it 's immediately apparent that it is n't the power of prayer or spirituality per se that are n't scientific , it 's the methodology people have for dealing with them . Indeed , when the scientific method is applied and does n't yield the results believers in such matters want , the typical response is to come up with excuses why we should n't expect the scientific method to work . Unfortunately you ca n't have it both ways ; if you want to come to the party you have to adopt the dress code . Really , none of this would be a problem if science did n't have a ( from a religious perspective ) nasty habit of finding explanations for , or hidden and unexpected complexities within , features of the material world about which religious texts or leaders had already made firm pronouncements . Because despite the fact that you , SS , and others see science and evolution as an enemy of your philosophy and spirituality , the actual bone of contention is always in the material world . So who 's really treading on whose toes here ? It 's your choice to shackle your spirituality to a particular - and demonstrably wrong - version of material events"