,id,q,r,s,q',r',Unnamed: 6,total no.: 7987
5,9,"""once again , you seem to support the killing of certain people ... based on what ?""","""based on the idea that people are dispensible , particularly if they obstruct your well-being . a woman would abort her baby because being a mother contradicts her idea of well-being . in the same way we send soldiers to kill the enemy if they are deemed contrary to the well-being of our country can you be against abortion and pro-war ?""",AGREE,"""you seem to support the killing of certain people ... based on what ?""","""based on the idea that people are dispensible""",,
22,13,"""Do you not even get statutory sick pay ?""","""You have to be off for more than 4 days and after that I would get the princely sum of £79.15 per week .. hardly worth having . Unlike teachers I can not stay at home and get paid when it snows too .""",DISAGREE,"""Do you not even get statutory sick pay ?""","""You have to be off for more than 4 days and after that I would get the princely sum of £79.15 per week""",,
24,14,"""Too bad . That does n't automatically give you the excuse to support discredited beliefs . and it gives you no protection when others tell you to shut up and change your argument to address the facts . Abortion was never in the Constitution . However the Second Amendment and gun ownership is , was , and always has been . Roe v. Wade was judicial activism , Heller was just the courts doing their job after 30 long years of trying to avoid the subject . The two cases are n't comparable in the least . Stop using them .""","""In other words , you think a Supreme Court decision should only shut down the debate if it 's a decision you agree with . Roe v. Wade and Heller do share some striking similarities . For example , Scalia stated in Heller : `` Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill , or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings , or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. `` However , the text of the Constitution has as much to say about such restrictions as it does about abortion . I 've heard that Scalia has been criticized for making such a statement because there is no clear historical precedent dating back 200 years of banning felons from owning firearms . So neither the text of the Second Amendment nor tradition justifies such restrictions . It is an example of judicial lawmaking .""",DISAGREE,"""However the Second Amendment and gun ownership is , was , and always has been . Roe v. Wade was judicial activism , Heller was just the courts doing their job after 30 long years of trying to avoid the subject . The two cases are n't comparable in the least""","""In other words , you think a Supreme Court decision should only shut down the debate if it 's a decision you agree with . Roe v. Wade and Heller do share some striking similarities .""",,
53,33,"""`` They believe that mechanistic evolution is just too improbable. `` Ah ... do they now . You see , Berkinski et al seem to have a limited comprehension as to what causes life to change in space and time . Where they see improbability I see inevitability- life , in whatever form we care to discuss , is vying to survive against a whole battery of challenges . Some of those challenges confront it on a short term basis- the need for food , suitable environmental conditions in which to survive and so on . Others may be an issue over a longer period of time- the need to find a mate and reproduce , can it survive annual changes in local climates . Ultimately , life has to be able to adapt to the longest term changes- like a major shift in underlying climatic conditions or local topography . And so on- we can consider a whole host of changes that confronts life at various times over different timescales . What is clear from such consideration is the never ending need for life to able to adapt- the Earth is a dynamic and forever changing place ( even the very ground beneath you now is transient in nature ) and environments have changed dramatically over the course of this planets history . If life were still and static it would never have come to be in the first place . If it can not adapt to a new challenges quickly enough- well just think of all the examples we have of life that is extinct . So I really can not see why Berkinski and his peers find natural evolution , or whatever you care to call it improbable- the driving forces are there to see if you are inclined to learn about them . What I really find improbable is the notion of an omnipotent supernatural enitity outside of the physical universe somehow being able to comprehend and interact with the life in ours- and even to have the desire to do so !""","""I believe you 've missed the point . He 's not against evolution ; change of species over time into other species . He in fact , from what I can gather , does indeed believe in evolution He 's arguing that it did n't come about through materialistic processes .""",DISAGREE,"""evolution is just too improbable""","""I believe you 've missed the point""",,
71,36,"""If private firearms were to be made illegal across the board , I suggest to you the civil unrest you speak of would be epidemic in our nation . The US , as it has stood constitutionally for 215 years , though wobbly at times , would cease to have existed , as envisioned by the founders of our country , and having been sacrificed for by so many brave men and women . That is my opinion , and of course , may not be shared by many .""","""You mean that the confiscation of the guns would cause civil unrest ? That ` s an interesting thought .""",DISAGREE,"""I suggest to you the civil unrest you speak of would be epidemic in our nation .""","""You mean that the confiscation of the guns would cause civil unrest ?""",,
69,36,"""If private firearms were to be made illegal across the board , I suggest to you the civil unrest you speak of would be epidemic in our nation . The US , as it has stood constitutionally for 215 years , though wobbly at times , would cease to have existed , as envisioned by the founders of our country , and having been sacrificed for by so many brave men and women . That is my opinion , and of course , may not be shared by many .""","""You mean that the confiscation of the guns would cause civil unrest ? That ` s an interesting thought .""",DISAGREE,"""the civil unrest you speak of would be epidemic in our nation""","""the confiscation of the guns would cause civil unrest""",,
72,37,"""Why do you expect me to provide evidence when you never do ?""","""Then you freely admit that you lied when you said this , and I quote : People like Arch are setting it as opposed to science and in that position it will be doomed to fail . AND Arch is doing nothing but distorting the very thing he holds so dear , I mean , how is accurately quoting passages from the bible distorting it in any way ? You do nothing but post drivel which makes no factual statements at all . And you call that debating ?""",DISAGREE,"""expect me to provide evidence when you never do ?""","""freely admit that you lied when you said this""",,
78,38,"""Why ? What has caused you to believe such things ?""","""wow , I never thought a qoute would be so stupid as to compare it to a house . Fine then what if I compare your head to a house that is housing ur brain . But it would be perfectly legal to rip it out and steamroll it on the street for allto see . ( by ur rules of course this would be a perfectly acceptable thing to do )""",DISAGREE,"""What has caused you to believe such things ?""","""never thought a qoute would be so stupid""",,
85,40,"""The women of Islam need to become feminists . That 's all that 's needed .""","""Do you want them all dead ?""",DISAGREE,"""The women of Islam need to become feminists . That 's all that 's needed .""","""Do you want them all dead ?""",,
118,61,"""Biology is centered around the theory of evolution . Without it , biology is hardly biology .""","""So biology did n't exist before the theory of evolution was formulated ?""",DISAGREE,"""Biology is centered around the theory of evolution . Without it , biology is hardly biology .""","""So biology did n't exist before the theory of evolution was formulated ?""",,
149,79,"""A criminal might also want to get a body off his gun too ; a barrel swap would be cheaper than dumping the gun in the river and buying a new one .""","""or just ship it to a frend where it is legal to sell it your self , a legal gun is more expensive than an illegal .""",AGREE,"""get a body off his gun too a barrel swap dumping the gun in the river""","""ship it to a frend a legal gun is more expensive""",,
169,81,"""To me , somehow , it smacks of self-idolatrization , prideful in being `` next `` to God .""","""What else would you expect from the people who created a god in their own image ? Your thinking here is right , religion has a long history of being egocentric .""",AGREE,"""it smacks of self-idolatrization ,""","""Your thinking here is right""",,
178,82,"""Recommendation One : Conduct criminal enforcement at gun shows without a specific target""","""So Bloomberg is suggesting that the ATF should seek to prosecute anyone and everyone , evidence or not . This is n't how law enforcement works . This is n't how the Constitution works . You ca n't be prosecuted for a crime that you did n't commit , and for which there is no evidence to link you to it . But that 's not good enough for Bloomberg , oh no . Bloomberg wants to ATF to view anyone attending a gun show as absolutely guilty , and subject to arrest , detainment and prosecution without evidence or witnesses , thus violating a person 's Sixth Amendment rights . And as I said before . Bloomberg makes absolutely no recommendation for what to do with these 35 , supposedly , criminals sellers . He did n't want them charged with felonies , he did n't file civil suits against them , he did n't do anything . He just got the `` evidence `` he wanted and then he let them go scot free as if they 'd done nothing . Obviously New York City style catch and release justice at its absolute finest . Also note how the report refers to the SKS as `` assault rifles `` . There 's not a single feature on the SKS that would qualify it as either as `` assault rifle `` or an `` assault weapon `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Recommendation One : Conduct criminal enforcement at gun shows without a specific target""","""So Bloomberg is suggesting that the ATF should seek to prosecute anyone and everyone , evidence or not . This is n't how law enforcement works . This is n't how the Constitution works . You ca n't be prosecuted for a crime that you did n't commit , and for which there is no evidence to link you to it .""",,
183,83,"""It is just incredible to me that so many people accept the basic premise that evolutionists put out there , which is that there is enough variation within a species that would genetically disallow a portion of the population to breed .""","""Nope . Not part of evolutionary theory . It would be stupid to claim that increased genetic variability would `` disallow `` any portion of the population from breeding .""",DISAGREE,"""It is just incredible to me that so many people accept the basic premise that evolutionists put out there , which is that there is enough variation within a species that would genetically disallow a portion of the population to breed .""","""Nope . Not part of evolutionary theory . It would be stupid to claim that increased genetic variability would `` disallow `` any portion of the population from breeding""",,
181,83,"""It is just incredible to me that so many people accept the basic premise that evolutionists put out there , which is that there is enough variation within a species that would genetically disallow a portion of the population to breed .""","""Nope . Not part of evolutionary theory . It would be stupid to claim that increased genetic variability would `` disallow `` any portion of the population from breeding .""",DISAGREE,"""basic premise that evolutionists put out there enough variation within a species that would genetically disallow a portion of the population to breed""","""Nope . Not part of evolutionary theory . It would be stupid to claim that increased genetic variability would `` disallow `` any portion of the population from breeding .""",,
195,84,"""Hope you like this one . I really think it 's funny . http : //www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm ? itemid=19521""","""Heh , half the science with twice the religion , nice""",AGREE,"""Hope you like this one . I really think it 's funny .""","""Heh , half the science with twice the religion , nice""",,
196,84,"""Hope you like this one . I really think it 's funny . http : //www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm ? itemid=19521""","""Heh , half the science with twice the religion , nice""",AGREE,"""Hope you like this one . I really think it 's funny .""","""Heh , half the science with twice the religion , nice""",,
216,88,"""`` Six pairs of these aortic arches loop over the pharynx . In primitive fish , these arches persist and enable the gills to oxygenate the blood . In adult birds and mammals , in which lungs oxygenate the blood , such a system makes little sense - but all six pairs of aortic arches are formed in mammalian and avian embryos before the system eventually becomes simplified into a single aortic arch . Thus , even though our physiology does not require such a structure , our embryonic condition reflects our evolutionary history. `` ( Developmental Biology : Seventh Edition , Scott F. Gilbert , Sinauer Associates Inc. , 2003 , p500 )""","""Another characteristic in this same general area that ties us back to fish is the development of our parathyroid glands - which are very similar to gill buds in fish - from a particular pharyngeal arch : the same one that in fish gives rise to the gill buds ! Moving on to the kidneys for a minute . The human embryo forms not one , but 3 successive kidneys : the pronephric , mesonephric , and metanephric kidneys . Only that last one persists and only it is the kidney you and I and all of our fellow humans use . Why do human embryos go through two transient and simpler kidneys before getting it right ? Here 's a hint : the other two are carry overs from simpler organisms ! The evolutionarily simplest vertebrates , such as hagfish and teleost fish , develop only the pronephric kidney : it is their adult functional kidney . Now move up an evolutionary notch to ( other ) fish and amphibians . In their embryos , the first kidney still develops , but soon begins to degenerate and is replaced by the mesonephric kidney , which is the functional adult kidney in these organisms . Now move up another evolutionary notch , to reptiles , birds , and mammals . Their embryos form the first kidney , which then degenerates and is replaced by the second kidney , which then degenerates and is replaced by the final , metanephric kidney : their adult functional kidney . The above is not anywhere near a complete list of embryological evidences for common descent/evolution . PS : Note the serial addition of developmental stages that occurs in kidneys as one moves up to higher evolutionary levels : `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` . Of course this `` law `` does not hold for all organs/organ systems in all organisms , but it does hold for a few cases . And that 's enough to clearly indicate evolution of those organ systems by their being retained from ancestors and then modified during embryonic development .""",AGREE,"""In primitive fish , these arches persist and enable the gills to oxygenate the blood""","""which are very similar to gill buds in fish - from a particular pharyngeal arch""",,
221,90,"""Has anyone ever observed one animal change into another animal ?""","""Yes . For example , the hawthorn maggot fly was observed to change into the apple maggot fly in only a few years . I also gave the example of the herring gull/lesser black-backed gull that exists as a single , continuous population the circles the globe in which the extremes have become seperate species . Of course , what you are asking is if it has ever been observed that a frog turned into a lion . But that is n't evolution . In fact , a saltation ( that is the word for that silly idea ) would disprove the current theory of evolution . Organisms change only a little from generation to generation . Generally , evolution is a slow process since it happens in populations , not individuals . Evolution is a change in the genetic makeup of the entire population of over generations .""",DISAGREE,"""ever observed one animal change into another animal ?""","""hawthorn maggot fly observed that a frog turned into a lion .""",,
238,93,"""Evolutionists have screwed up in that they have always assumed that the gene is the fundamental unit of life ,""","""Uh . No they did n't . Have you ever actually taken a biology course ?""",DISAGREE,"""they have always assumed that the gene is the fundamental unit of life""","""No they did n't .""",,
256,96,"""They are constructs of man .""","""if the laws of logic are human constructs then how can they be absolute since humans think differently and often contradictorily . If they are produced from human minds , and human minds are mutually contradictory , then how can the constructs be absolute ? Therefore , the laws of logic are not human constructs .""",DISAGREE,"""They are constructs of man .""","""Therefore , the laws of logic are not human constructs .""",,
263,97,"""I know of no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""Obviously not . If the right to life trumps all other rights , then it follows that the mother 's right to life and the child 's right to life cancel each other out . Mind you , if it 's her choice then the pro-life movement endorses such heroism , right ?""",DISAGREE,"""no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""Obviously not .""",,
260,97,"""I know of no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""Obviously not . If the right to life trumps all other rights , then it follows that the mother 's right to life and the child 's right to life cancel each other out . Mind you , if it 's her choice then the pro-life movement endorses such heroism , right ?""",DISAGREE,"""no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""Mind you , if it 's her choice then the pro-life movement endorses such heroism""",,
261,97,"""I know of no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""Obviously not . If the right to life trumps all other rights , then it follows that the mother 's right to life and the child 's right to life cancel each other out . Mind you , if it 's her choice then the pro-life movement endorses such heroism , right ?""",DISAGREE,"""I know of no one that is pro life believes the mother should die so the baby can live .""","""not . If the right to life trumps all other rights , then it follows that the mother 's right to life and the child 's right to life cancel each other out .""",,
278,107,"""How many children have you adopted ?""","""Go do a Google search and find out . How many babies have you supported killing ?""",DISAGREE,"""How many children have you adopted ?""","""How many babies have you supported killing ?""",,
285,109,"""The main business of PP is providing contraception and offering sex ed ?""","""By number of people , absolutely . Take a look at the table : http : //www.plannedparenthood.org/lib ... 2Services.html Service No . of Procedures Reversible Contraceptive Clients — Women 2,208,483 Emergency Contraception Clients 633,756 Tubal Sterilization Clients 680 Reversible Contraceptive Clients — Men 60,476 Vasectomy Clients 2,522 773 Abortion Procedures 227,375 HIV Testing Clients — Women 126,477 HIV Testing Clients — Men 48,991 Prenatal Clients 15,860 Infertility Clients 325 Colposcopy Procedures 31,248 Cryotherapy Procedures 3,913 LOOP/LEEP Procedures 1,781 Midlife Clients 10,575 Pregnancy Tests 1,081,772 Breast Exams/Breast Care 1,062,727 Primary Care Clients 24,483 STI Procedures , Women and Men 1,255,036 Other Services — Women 58,626 Other Services — Men 17,905 Totals 6,873,011 Total Unduplicated Clients 2,744,554 Or to shorten it down : 227K Abortions : 5,426K Birth control : 175K STD test : 1,081K Pregnancy test : 15K OB checks : 1,102K Gynecological : 1,356K Other""",AGREE,"""main business of PP contraception and offering sex ed""","""Procedures Reversible Contraceptive Clients""",,
291,111,"""I 'm not surprised that no one on your side of the debate would correct you , but wolves and dogs are both members of the same species .""","""Dealt with . Wolves and dogs share a genus , not a species . Along with coyotes and jackels . See above for lots of transitionals , also .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not surprised that no one on your side of the debate would correct you wolves and dogs are both members of the same species""","""Dealt with . Wolves and dogs share a genus , not a species .""",,
306,120,"""Southern Policy law Center ( SPLC ) SPLC continues hate smear against Oath Keepers I did not post this because of any pertinent relevance , but this statement FINALLY Clears it all up ! Now I know what a hate group is ! I finally get it !""","""Well any group or individual not spouting left-tard drivel is actually a hate group . The military is of such low intellect that they are easy to sway into hate groups . Hence the homeland insecurity warning on returning veterans .""",AGREE,"""Now I know what a hate group is ! I finally get it !""","""Well any group or individual not spouting left-tard drivel is actually a hate group""",,
314,121,"""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ? Why do you persist with these blatant lies ?""","""Hit that one right on the head , Symbiote . I 'd like to hear supersport 's response to this .""",AGREE,"""Why do you persist with these blatant lies ?""","""I 'd like to hear supersport 's response to this .""",,
312,121,"""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ? Why do you persist with these blatant lies ?""","""Hit that one right on the head , Symbiote . I 'd like to hear supersport 's response to this .""",AGREE,"""the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ? blatant lies""","""Hit that one right on the head , Symbiote""",,
310,121,"""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ? Why do you persist with these blatant lies ?""","""Hit that one right on the head , Symbiote . I 'd like to hear supersport 's response to this .""",AGREE,"""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes""","""Hit that one right on the head , Symbiote .""",,
332,123,"""I have to watch for snares now ? I didn ’ t say it , nor does the Bible , that only males of the human race have souls .""","""Well , assuming that when the Bible says `` you `` in passages that are telling `` you `` to do something with your soul , I would hope that it also applies to women . But it never comes out and says `` women and men have souls. `` This does n't mean they do n't have them . Same thing with animals . The book is n't written for non-humans , so when it says `` you `` we can assume it does n't refer to non-humans . But the book never says `` animals do n't have souls. `` So we ca n't assume that they do n't ( according to the bible ) .""",DISAGREE,"""I have to watch for snares now ? I didn ’ t say it , nor does the Bible""","""Well , assuming that when the Bible says `` you `` in passages that are telling `` you `` to do something with your soul""",,
357,126,"""Cybererratus , is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you ?""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman ` s fallacies please ?""",DISAGREE,"""Cybererratus , is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you ?""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman s fallacies please ?""",,
355,126,"""Cybererratus , is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you ?""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman ` s fallacies please ?""",DISAGREE,"""Cybererratus , is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you ?""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman s fallacies please ?""",,
360,126,"""Cybererratus , is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you ?""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman ` s fallacies please ?""",DISAGREE,"""is Gary Ridgway something of a hero to you""","""Could you avoid your constant use of strawman s fallacies""",,
369,127,"""This error becomes immediately evident if we amend Thompson 's illustration . What if the mother woke up from an accident to find herself surgically connected to her own child ? What kind of mother would willingly cut the life-support system to her two-year-old in a situation like that ? And what would we think of her if she did ?""","""Irrelevant . Whatever kind of person or mother she is , the argument would apply .""",DISAGREE,"""What if the mother woke up from an accident to find herself surgically connected to her own child ?""","""Whatever kind of person or mother she is , the argument would apply .""",,
379,128,"""18th Century Pennsylvania , which had its own RKBA , passed a law which required citizens to take an oath of allegiance to the state or face being disarmed . This was to protect the state against those who might be loyal to the British Crown . So why ca n't the US take similar measures to protect itself against terrorists ?""","""Because there 's absolutely no due process in this proposal . Your name is on the list , your rights are revoked . That 's not due process . There 's no court of law , no trial , no verdict , no attorneys , no chance for the accused to defend themselves , etc . We still have n't forgotten the Homeland Security memo that said veterans and those opposed to abortion could be potential terrorists .""",DISAGREE,"""So why ca n't the US take similar measures to protect itself against terrorists ?""","""We still have n't forgotten the Homeland Security memo that said veterans and those opposed to abortion could be potential terrorists""",,
388,129,"""Galileo- The Supreme Court has ruled that the Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with being part of any militia group , organized or otherwise , it 's not about serving any duty to the state or government .""","""Well if it has nothing to do with a militia that would mean that the preamble is merely unnecessary verbiage . So you want people to just ignore the plain text of the Second Amendment- at least the part you do n't like . The preamble lets us know that the main focus if not the sole focus of this amendment is the militia . David Konig is another historian that has found both the individual rights interpretation and the collective interpretation unsatisfactory . He says the Second Amendment protects an individual right that is exercised collectively . '' Indeed , to serve in the militia and participate in this civic duty was more than a duty : it was a civic right of a peculiarly eighteenth-century nature unlike either the 'individual ' or 'collective ' models argued for today . On neither side of the Atlantic , that is , did the debate concern itself with this right in the present-day sense of an 'individual ' or personal constitutional right ; but at the same time , its common emphasis on widespread individual arms-bearing for public service distinguishes it from today 's narrowly applied 'collective ' application to the National Guard . No individual right existed unrelated to service in a well-regulated militia ; no effective militia could serve its purpose without an armed citizenry . This type of right may appear paradoxical to us today , but it fitted 'the inner coherence of a given system of beliefs ' 4 held by people in the past , and which made sense to those familiar with the concept of an individual right exercised collectively. `` David Thomas Konig | The Second Amendment : A Missing Transatlantic Context for the Historical Meaning of `` the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms `` | Law and History Review , 22.1 | The History Cooperative""",DISAGREE,"""Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with being part of any militia group""","""The preamble lets us know that the main focus if not the sole focus of this amendment is the militia .""",,
396,130,"""Why bother when you know logic , rational thinking and womens rights always take second seat to antiquated belief system dogma ?""","""How very true . Anti abortion people feel their opinions should be forced upon a women and her choice about her body should not matter . They would feel different if someone were telling them they could n't have a tumor or parasite removed from them because of someone elses belief system .""",AGREE,"""logic , rational thinking and womens rights second seat to antiquated belief""","""opinions should be forced her body should not matter""",,
407,131,"""OccamsRazor : Another point to consider is populations- without reproduction there are no replacements for dead individuals .""","""Also already covered in my thread-starting post . ( IÂ ’ m not overlooking your further thoughts on this : they follow ) .""",AGREE,"""Another point to consider is populations- without reproduction there are no replacements for dead individuals .""","""Also already covered in my thread-starting post""",,
403,131,"""OccamsRazor : Another point to consider is populations- without reproduction there are no replacements for dead individuals .""","""Also already covered in my thread-starting post . ( IÂ ’ m not overlooking your further thoughts on this : they follow ) .""",AGREE,"""Another point to consider is populations- without reproduction there are no replacements for dead individuals .""","""Also already covered in my thread-starting post .""",,
415,132,"""I do n't think God ever forces anyone to sin - they do it on their own .""","""how can sin even exist if God is contsnatly monitoring the decision process ? does he approve of the sins that are commited ? if the only decisions we can make are the ones God approves , then how is it so much sin is being commited ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't think God ever forces anyone to sin - they do it on their own .""","""how can sin even exist if God is contsnatly monitoring the decision process ?""",,
436,134,"""Would you consider abortion in the following four situations ?""","""And if I did then so what ? Hiter 's Mom and Saddam 's Mom both were given the option to abort their pregnancies by nurses and decided against it . So I guess this makes pro-lifers responsible for the holocaust and the slaughter of Kurds ?""",DISAGREE,"""Would you consider abortion in the following four situations ?""","""this makes pro-lifers responsible for the holocaust and the slaughter of Kurds ?""",,
440,135,"""Biologically speaking , the fetus is human""","""The fetus is also a parasite , and if the woman chooses to do so , she has the right to extract it from her body .""",DISAGREE,"""Biologically speaking , the fetus is human""","""The fetus is also a parasite""",,
446,136,"""I would n't disagree with you that abortion is murder . I do n't agree with executions either nor do I agree with wars . A life is lost when an abortion occurs . This is almost undefendable unless you want to debate whether a life even existed at the time of the abortion . I also accept that society is hurt by people having abortions . Women especially suffer psychological trauma from the loss of their child .""","""Then I do n't get your point that I am not affected by abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""Women especially suffer psychological trauma from the loss of their child .""","""I do n't get your point that I am not affected by abortion .""",,
443,136,"""I would n't disagree with you that abortion is murder . I do n't agree with executions either nor do I agree with wars . A life is lost when an abortion occurs . This is almost undefendable unless you want to debate whether a life even existed at the time of the abortion . I also accept that society is hurt by people having abortions . Women especially suffer psychological trauma from the loss of their child .""","""Then I do n't get your point that I am not affected by abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""A life is lost when an abortion occurs .""","""I do n't get your point that I am not affected by abortion .""",,
461,139,"""Which is the more important freedom- freedom from government control of guns or freedom from gun violence and murder ?""","""You speak as if these two things are mutually exclusive , they are not . Government control of guns only works on those willing to obey the law . Government can not control criminals , they can and should however punish them when they catch them . Allow me to ask you a question : Which is more important a perceived saftey via government control or the freedoms endowed by our creator and enumerated in the bill of rights ? I asked you before ( you did n't answer ) what rights are you willing to give up for what you perceive as a safer life ? You once posted that you were studied in the ways of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young , as it could be argued that religion has killed more people then cancer would you be willing to give up that freedom ? How about if the government said you can own a Bible but not a Koran ? Or you could only buy one religios text per month ?""",DISAGREE,"""important freedom- freedom from government control of guns or freedom from gun violence and murder ?""","""Government control of guns only works on those willing to obey the law . Government can not control criminals ,""",,
472,140,"""Yeah , I 'm scared Milo , I 'm scared that a rational , apparently intelligent person can read these passages and come to the conclusions that you do .""","""Thanks for the complement on intelligence .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm scared that a rational , apparently intelligent person can read these passages and come to the conclusions that you do .""","""Thanks for the complement""",,
474,141,"""This post was pure projection of the faults of creationists onto evolutionists . Evolution works out in science . Creationists do n't do science but engage in politics .""","""So you 're saying evolution never enters politics , and Creationists never consider science ?""",DISAGREE,"""This post was pure projection of the faults of creationists onto evolutionists . Evolution works out in science""","""So you 're saying evolution never enters politics , and Creationists never consider science ?""",,
483,144,"""Off course if it goes the other way American children can kiss the chance of getting a proper education in science goodbye .""","""Well , there are books and scientific journals and what not . This XXXX shows up in my son 's science class and he will be hearing each and every day from his mother how it is not science and I will get him access to real science information . Yikes .""",AGREE,"""kiss the chance of getting a proper education in science goodbye""","""there are books and scientific journals and what not I will get him access to real science information .""",,
484,144,"""Off course if it goes the other way American children can kiss the chance of getting a proper education in science goodbye .""","""Well , there are books and scientific journals and what not . This XXXX shows up in my son 's science class and he will be hearing each and every day from his mother how it is not science and I will get him access to real science information . Yikes .""",AGREE,"""American children can kiss the chance of getting a proper education in science goodbye .""","""there are books and scientific journals he will be hearing each and every day from his mother how it is not science and I will get him access to real science information .""",,
493,147,"""what next cars , shoes , toasters ?""","""These items do not have killing as their primary use .""",DISAGREE,"""what next cars , shoes , toasters ?""","""These items do not have killing as their primary use .""",,
495,148,"""OccamsRazor : Even if we postulate that all disease can be fully overcome and an organism suffers no degeneracy death will still occur through accident and mis-adventure . Once the last individual perishes life has ceased to exist .""","""Which falls to logic I laid out in my thread-starting post""",DISAGREE,"""Once the last individual perishes life has ceased to exist .""","""falls to logic I laid out""",,
506,150,"""Butwhat of the fetus/babies that were wanted by daddy but not by mummy what does termination stop then ?""","""The burden of a pregnancy is the woman 's . It should be left up to her and her doctor to decide what is best for her .""",DISAGREE,"""fetus/babies that were wanted by daddy but not by mummy""","""burden of a pregnancy is the woman 's . It should be left up to her and her doctor to decide what is best for her .""",,
548,161,"""I 'm not going to enter into one of your little definition changing XXXXX matches .""","""Oh , well in that case , there may be no debate at all ...""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not going to enter into one of your little definition changing""","""well in that case , there may be no debate at all ...""",,
577,166,"""If evolution occurs to all life forms , there could be no life forms today which have not evolved , because all life would be in transition .""","""And all life is in transition . Even the roach . Bacteria as we speak are evolving .""",AGREE,"""If evolution occurs to all life forms all life would be in transition .""","""And all life is in transition . Bacteria as we speak are evolving .""",,
583,167,"""So men can marry men , and women can marry women .""","""Yes""",AGREE,"""So men can marry men , and women can marry women .""","""Yes""",,
637,176,"""If no one owned weapons , then the police would be virtually unneccesary except to stop crimes committed with fists alone . Most criminals use a weaon of some kind , you see .""","""Yes , you are 100 % correct . Criminals would be sure to pay the tax on their illegally owned pistol , just like they pay income tax on drug money . Oh , wait they do n't pay tax on their drug money . Most criminals break the law you see .""",DISAGREE,"""If no one owned weapons , then the police would be virtually except to stop crimes committed with fists alone""","""Yes , you are 100 % correct . Criminals would be sure to pay the tax on their illegally owned pistol , just like they pay income tax on drug money""",,
642,177,"""OK , first off , this thread is for people who are either partially convinced about the existence of God , or have some problem with the nature of God as they understand it . this is not a thread where evidence is needed , just opinions and personal persuasions . if you believe God exists or have absolutely no doubt that God exists , then you can contribute , but its not the intention of this thread to prove that God exists or not . its just to explore the reasons why people believe or doubt whatever about God""","""you mean like partially pregnant or almost pregnant or almost a virgin ? I do n't have a beef with God , I only pick on guys shorter or weaker than I .""",DISAGREE,"""this thread convinced about the existence of God""","""partially pregnant beef with God pick on guys shorter or weaker than I .""",,
662,181,"""i own several ak47s as well as chinese sks rifles im not a gang banger. . the last thing i want to do is shoot another person am i wrong ? i like to shoot ( saftley ) at targets its just more fun to do it with a semi-auto rifles .""","""If guns make you happy and you do not break and criminal codes . Then you need no reason nor do you have to justify yourself to anyone . The Constitution or firearms laws have nothing to do with `` if you need one `` .""",AGREE,"""i own several not a gang shoot am i wrong ? saftley""","""no reason nor do you have to justify yourself ``""",,
665,182,"""Who said anything about a different form of love ?""","""You did when you talked about someone loving objects , or a mokey , etc .""",DISAGREE,"""said anything""","""did you""",,
672,190,"""If every creature in the population changes its phenotype at the same time in response to an evironmental cue ( diet , temperature , predators , etc ) , this could give the illusion of evolution -- or change -- in the fossil record .""","""Great idea . Explain why all the tests that prove it wrong are irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""If every creature in the population changes its phenotype at the same time in response to an evironmental cue ( diet , temperature , predators , etc ) , this could give the illusion of evolution -- or change -- in the fossil record .""","""Great idea . Explain why all the tests that prove it wrong are irrelevant .""",,
683,192,"""What you did was use unfounded generalizations , which is exactly the sort of thing this thread is about .""","""And the assertion that pregnancy is a `` wonderful miracle `` would be what ?""",DISAGREE,"""What you did was use unfounded generalizations""","""the assertion that pregnancy is a `` wonderful miracle `` would be what ?""",,
692,194,"""The thing is , though , god and humans are n't the only candidates . Mach illustrated this point in the first post . Ogres , vampires , ghosts , etc . are all other possible candidates . That said , change `` God `` to `` ogres `` and the argument proves the existence of ogres .""","""I see , thanks for answering my question .""",AGREE,"""change `` God `` to `` ogres `` and the argument proves the existence of ogres .""","""thanks for answering my question .""",,
695,195,"""The sky is blue ? Evolution is true ? The pope lives in Rome ? Bears * * * * in the woods ? * Goes back to work and is slightly annoyed ShadowPikachu made a announcement from the department of the Obvious *""","""But did n't they tell you ? They outsourced your job to me !""",DISAGREE,"""ShadowPikachu made a announcement from the department of the Obvious *""","""But did n't they tell you ?""",,
701,196,"""a pro-gunner with the SN of `` marxismismurder `` conservative was a pretty safe bet . You do n't see many liberals in that mold .""","""I believe in a strict interpretation of the Constitution , this makes me neither a liberal or conservative . The SN was inspired by VOR who kept signing his posts with quotes from Karl Marx .""",DISAGREE,"""You do n't see many liberals in that mold""","""I believe in a strict interpretation of the Constitution this makes me neither a liberal or conservative""",,
707,197,"""Originally posted by fallingupwards i 'm sure every old person from the time of FDR to the present was very pleased to receive their social security check when they turned 66 years old . if we dont continue running on a deficit , then our generation will receive a check too . and who knows , you might really really NEED it . many old people use it to help pay for their prescriptions . its easy to condemn social security when you 're young , but just you wait until retirement age .""","""When FDR started social security he was betting that most americans would not be around to collect . The average life span at the time was below 66 years . Since then americans have been insulting the state and disrupting it 's plans by not dying young enough .""",DISAGREE,"""if we dont continue running on a deficit , then our generation will receive a check too . and who knows , you might really really NEED it .""","""When FDR started social security he was betting that most americans would not be around to collect""",,
710,198,"""Maybe someone already said this but , problem is , we cant let the government take away any of our rights . Once they start doing that it would set precedence and who knows were it would end . Personally I wouldn ’ t own a gun for self defense because I am just not that big of a sissy .""","""You know what they call people like you ? Victims .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe someone already said this but , problem is , we cant let the government take away any of our rights""","""You know what they call people like you ? Victims .""",,
713,198,"""Maybe someone already said this but , problem is , we cant let the government take away any of our rights . Once they start doing that it would set precedence and who knows were it would end . Personally I wouldn ’ t own a gun for self defense because I am just not that big of a sissy .""","""You know what they call people like you ? Victims .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe someone already said this but , problem is , we cant let the government take away any of our rights .""","""You know what they call people like you ?""",,
719,199,"""On Wednesday , April 28 , the Assembly Appropriations Committee met to consider Assembly Bill 1810 and Assembly Bill 2223 . AB1810 was placed into the suspense file due to financial costs and will be reconsidered in the near future . This bill may be acted upon at a later date . Please continue checking your email and NRA-ILA : : for any updates on AB1810 . AB2223 was re-scheduled for next week . AB1810 would establish a registration system , similar to the one currently in place for handguns , for all newly-acquired long guns . Under AB1810 , the make , model and serial number of the firearm as well as the identifying information of the purchaser would be recorded and kept on file by the California Attorney General ’ s office . If AB1810 were enacted , violent criminals would continue doing what they do now – obtain firearms through illegal means . This bill would not decrease crime but will rather have disastrous effects on the already financially unstable Golden State . AB1810 would impose additional burdens on California ’ s taxpayers to maintain the registration system as well as on the state ’ s licensed firearms dealers , small businesses who already deal with extensive business requirements . One simply needs to look at Canada , a nation with draconian firearms registration , to see the results – billions in cumulative administrative costs , annual cost overruns , no clear substantiation of public safety benefits , unjust prosecution , and a bureaucratic complexity that daunts those willing to comply . Ironically , California is considering a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system .""","""Let 's ask our California resident what he thinks of this new law . A waste of money in financial crunch time , or just good law making ? However , that is not the only options . You can say whatever you like . It is a free country . At least for now . Given all of the new laws being made , and the bureaucracy they create , thus adding more and further regs . associated with bigger government , the trend does n't look good for Freedom from governmental intrusions . But at least for now .""",DISAGREE,"""a new registration scheme as Canada is considering doing away with its system .""","""the bureaucracy they create , thus adding more and further regs""",,
791,214,"""Have any soldiers dropped by to use your house in peace time ?""","""Actually yes , but not for the purposes of ilegal search or seisure , I have active duty military friends . They drop by all the time . Obviously your great lack of friends makes that idea hard to understand .""",DISAGREE,"""Have any soldiers dropped by to use your house in peace time ?""","""They drop by all the time . Obviously your great lack of friends makes that idea hard to understand .""",,
809,218,"""No disagreements . Something left out ( probably because it was assumed ) , is memory . What you call mental existence I would say is a description of what causes or leads to personal identity . To me it is self evident that there is no person or personhood without a personal identity . There might be disagreement about what the particulars are concerning how to identify a personal identity , but it seems self evident to me that a mind is required , and without a brain , there is no mind , so a brain is required . It seems to me self evident that if there is no brain , there is no person . Of course , others will disagree . Some say that the unique DNA of a zygote is enough for personal identity , but if this is true , identical twins ( with identical DNA ) would have to share one personal identity , and one soul . In the case of a chimera , two souls/unique DNA in two zygotes , would have to blend into one person/soul . ( No , most chimeras are not schizophrenic ) . I believe an integral part of [ personal identity > mental existence > personhood ] is memory . Whether it is short term , or long term , without memory there is no sense of self . ( I may be stating the obvious , but you never know . ) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It is not clear if your list of indicators for mental existence is  “ one will suffice ” , or  “ several are required ” . I don ’ t think it matters all that much , but I ’ m not sure , just wondering .""","""I 'm not completely sure what you mean by `` personal identity `` , but it sounds similar to what I called `` sense of self `` . It is a hard term to define . Sense of self is different than a recognition of self . I have heard that babies do not have a recognition of self - in the sense that , though they have personal experiences of pain , sensation , etc , they do not recognize themselves as separate from others - they just do n't think about their separateness so there is no recognition of a separate `` I `` . Similarly , most animals may have a sense of self - they may have a central mental center which feels the sensations , experiences the emotions , etc . - but many do not necessarily have a recognition of themselves as an `` I `` and others as `` you `` . They just do n't think about the separateness - they just have experiences that they react to . Where mental existence is concerned and criteria I use to define it , many of the criteria I listed ( thought , emotion , sense of pain , perception of experiences , sense of self , etc . ) are interdependent ( ex . emotion can be thought of as a type of thought , it takes a type of thought to recognize pain or sensation , etc. ) . However , roughly speaking , I would say that `` any of the above `` criteria would be enough to define a minimum mental existence - and thus define a person . On a last point , why is memory important to you ? Various people who have experienced major brain trauma have lost most memory function - so they have no memory of who they are , what they were doing one minute ago , etc . One can imagine that the extreme situation would be someone who has no memory at all - so he has no words to communicate , no memory of a personal history . Indeed , every experience is completely new , including the experience of pain , pleasure , etc . However , this memory-less person can still have experiences ( feel pain , pleasure , experience the input of the senses , etc. ) . He would be completely baffled as to what any experience at all is telling him , but he would still have the experiences . Extremely limited as that person would be , I would still call him a person . I 'm not sure if that is the type of memory that you were referring to . If not , then please clarify .""",DISAGREE,"""To me it is self evident that there is no person or personhood without a personal identity""","""I 'm not completely sure what you mean by `` personal identity `` , but it sounds similar to what I called `` sense of self `` . It is a hard term to define""",,
825,221,"""Because there is evidence against Kerry .""","""Yet there is evidence aganist Bush and you have a double standard on applying your attacks on Kerry to Bush even when the same circumstances apply .""",DISAGREE,"""Because there is evidence against Kerry .""","""Yet there is evidence aganist Bush and you have a double standard""",,
828,222,"""It 's all very interesting , but you left out a critical piece of information . You deliberately omitted the fact that most of the black victims were killed by fellow blacks . These were n't murders carried out by racist white guys , they 're the examples of black on black violence .""","""So what ? Most of them are still getting killed with guns . A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue . The basic idea is to `` win `` an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic . This sort of `` reasoning `` has the following form : 1 . Topic A is under discussion . 2 . Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A ( when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A ) . 3 . Topic A is abandoned .""",DISAGREE,"""You deliberately omitted the fact that most of the black victims were killed by fellow blacks .""","""Most of them are still getting killed with guns .""",,
838,224,"""Evolution may not , but most evolutionists do .""","""But you are trying to debunk the theory , right ? If it can be accepted by atheists , agnostics , theists , and the catholic church , how can you say that it is completely atheistic ?""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution may not , but most evolutionists do .""","""But you are trying to debunk the theory , right ?""",,
849,226,"""Last time I checked most state boards merely set the guidelines , whether or not they are followed is something entirely different . Still the fact that you have a board of education spouting such ridiculousness is pretty damn amusing .""","""The way it works in Kansas , the state board of education sets the guidelines and sends them out to all the school districts where they sit in a box in a closet somewhere . During much of the time when all this idiocy was going on , I was ON the local school board and had never once opened one of those books . We all knew they existed , and nearly half of us knew where ours were , it was just not something that anybody generally cares to look at . I would be shocked if you could find me 10 kids in the entire state who have ever read the state school boards definition of `` science `` or their guidelines . It is just not something that comes up . IMO , that is why this issue came up in kansas . Our state school board here has VERY little power or control , so nobody really pays attention to them . When the first set of changes occured , there was a lag of about 6 months before anybody even realized it and then it was somebody from the media .""",AGREE,"""Last time I checked state boards merely set the guidelines""","""Kansas board of education sets the guidelines""",,
872,230,"""# There were 7,387 black homicide victims in the United States . Of these , 6,345 ( 86 percent ) were male , and 1,042 ( 14 percent ) were female . # The homicide rate for black victims in the United States was 20.86 per 100,000 . In comparison , the overall national homicide rate was 5.30 per 100,000 and the national homicide rate for whites was 3.11 per 100,000 . # For homicides in which the weapon used could be identified , 82 percent of black victims ( 5,743 out of 7,011 ) were killed with guns . Of these , 73 percent ( 4,204 victims ) were killed with handguns . There were 701 victims killed with knives or other cutting instruments , 247 victims killed by bodily force , and 200 victims killed by a blunt object . Hes betrayed his own people !""","""OMG Brady , he betrayed HIS PEOPLE ? and I thought WE THE PEOPLE were his people .""",DISAGREE,"""were 7,387 black homicide victims in the United States . Of these , 6,345 ( 86 percent ) were male , and 1,042 ( 14 percent ) were female . # rate for black victims was 20.86 per 100,000 . In comparison , the national homicide rate was 5.30 per 100,000 whites 3.11 per 100,000 . homicides the weapon used could be 82 percent of black victims ( 5,743 out of 7,011 ) killed with 73 percent ( 4,204 victims ) 701 with knives or other cutting , 247 killed by bodily force , and 200 a blunt object . betrayed his people !""","""Brady , he betrayed HIS PEOPLE ? I WE THE PEOPLE were his people .""",,
887,239,"""3 ) Of course if you throw out morality as a basis for law , there & # 8217 ; s no reason , other than economics , to not allow gay marriage .""","""Well good at least you are aware there is no reason beyond your opinion of morality against gay marriage . So by all means do n't marry a man and the problem is solved .""",DISAGREE,"""other than economics , to not allow gay marriage .""","""no reason beyond your opinion of morality against gay marriage .""",,
893,240,"""spoken as a true loony lead for brains gun crazy Thank you for proving me right""","""Just trying to help out where I can , and if it proves you right well that makes a first time huh ? Sarge its a first ! !""",DISAGREE,"""spoken as a true loony lead for brains gun crazy Thank you for proving me right""","""Just trying to help out where I can , and if it proves you right well that makes a first time huh ?""",,
892,240,"""spoken as a true loony lead for brains gun crazy Thank you for proving me right""","""Just trying to help out where I can , and if it proves you right well that makes a first time huh ? Sarge its a first ! !""",DISAGREE,"""brains gun crazy""","""it proves you right well that makes a first time""",,
902,242,"""What you 're saying , in effect , is that if there are three naughty children in a class and only one of them gets punished , he ca n't actually have been naughty , because if he had , the other two would have been punished too .""","""No , I ’ m saying all three of them could have been naughty , but the other two were teachers pets . Let ’ s name the children , let ’ s call the one who was punished ~ID~ , and we ’ ll call the first of the two pets ~atheistic evolution~ and we ’ ll call the other unpunished one ~global warming~ . AE and GW have influential parents , they attend a lot of PTA meetings , and have influence on how the teacher is paid , or if the teacher is fired .""",DISAGREE,"""he ca n't actually have been naughty , because if he had""","""could have been naughty , but the other two were teachers pets .""",,
927,246,"""Let 's establish a campaign to search for the hypocrisy of people who call themselves pro-life yet find nothing wrong with killing a grown human being .""","""Just for those who also do n't know better . Not all who oppose abortion do so from a `` pro-life `` stance . Nor do we all come from a religious stance . Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's establish a campaign to search for the hypocrisy of people who call themselves pro-life yet find nothing wrong with killing a grown human being .""","""Not all who oppose abortion do so from a `` pro-life `` stance . Nor do we all come from a religious stance . Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League""",,
931,247,"""How were they able to get an `` aggravated assault `` charge pinned on you ? I 'm assuming she never had a mark on herself to show the cops . Had you two had a previous domestic call history with the police ? Hopefully justice will be served when you get your day in court . Then you 'll get to experience the wonder that is `` family court `` , if you have n't already . You have my sympathies .""","""Anything like Or . law all it takes is just a scratch or slight bruise , like grabbing your own arm and inflicting it ... I know .""",AGREE,"""Had you two had a previous domestic call history with the police""","""all it takes is just a scratch or slight bruise , like grabbing your own arm and inflicting it""",,
936,248,"""Everything on Earth follows a logical , sensible , and rational order , and I think that it is in this order that God rules and for him to break it would be to break his own laws . the laws he gave this Earth .""","""No , that is not true . What about miracles ?""",DISAGREE,"""Everything""","""miracles""",,
940,248,"""Everything on Earth follows a logical , sensible , and rational order , and I think that it is in this order that God rules and for him to break it would be to break his own laws . the laws he gave this Earth .""","""No , that is not true . What about miracles ?""",DISAGREE,"""I think that it is in this order that God rules and for him to break it would""","""No , that is not true . What about miracles ?""",,
938,248,"""Everything on Earth follows a logical , sensible , and rational order , and I think that it is in this order that God rules and for him to break it would be to break his own laws . the laws he gave this Earth .""","""No , that is not true . What about miracles ?""",DISAGREE,"""Everything on Earth follows a logical , sensible , and rational order I think that it is in this order that God rules and for him to break it would be to break his own laws .""","""No , that is not true . What about miracles ?""",,
953,251,"""2 . You can believe whatever you like ,""","""Why can you ? Are you making a statement that it 's reasonable to be irrational ?""",DISAGREE,"""You can believe whatever you like ,""","""Are you making a statement that it 's reasonable to be irrational ?""",,
980,264,"""They used to keel over regularly before modern medicine and my wife has been on medication for a thyroid condition ever since she delivered . '' During the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries , between 1 percent and 1.5 percent of all births ended in the mother 's death as a result of exhaustion , dehydration , infection , hemorrhage , or convulsions . Since the typical mother gave birth to between five and eight children , her lifetime chances of dying in childbirth ran as high as 1 in 8 . This meant that if a woman had eight female friends , it was likely that one might die in childbirth. ``""","""Sinjin , we are n't talking about the 17th and 18th centuries .""",DISAGREE,"""regularly before modern medicine and my wife has been on medication for a thyroid condition ever since she delivered""","""we are n't talking about the 17th and 18th centuries .""",,
992,267,"""Not in this instance , no . It isn ’ t trying to parallel pregnancy per se ( though it is most relevant for us if we take it as only 9 months ) , but trying to parallel the moral scenario of having a person attached to you against your will and without your consent . If the pro-life mantra is to be believed , it is never correct to disconnect someone if they will die if you do . So , the argument is applicable for 9 days , 9 months , 9 years or forever .""","""First , I think you may have misunderstood the `` pro-life mantra `` seeing how many pro-lifers think it permissable to disconnect life-support systems in certain circumstances , which necessarily results in a person 's death . But nevertheless , I think we agree that for purposes of the abortion discussion , it is a closer analogy to assume the violinst is only connected for nine months , and no longer than if we assume the violinist to be connected for some other arbitrary period of time . Am I correctly discerning an agreement on that ?""",DISAGREE,"""If the pro-life mantra is to be believed , it is never correct to disconnect someone if they will die if you do .""","""I think we agree that for purposes of the abortion discussion""",,
999,268,"""Ok . But they have handcuffs on and are in a straitjacket . They are required by law to make certain assumptions that do n't pass a straight-face test . They 're required by law to assume that Congress is going to do everything they say they 're going to do despite the fact that there 's clear and compelling evidence that they never have and they probably never will in certain regards . For example , you know , cutting provider reimbursements dramatically . Well , all right , do n't hold your breath . And so the fact is , I think , technically the numbers add up to say it will reduce the deficit over ten years and even beyond that . I think based on realistic assumptions , no way .""","""I shoulda worked for this guy when I had the chance . He goes on to say that Bush was the most fiscally irresponsible president we have had ... but Obama is threatening that title . This is something I have repeatedly said !""",DISAGREE,"""they have handcuffs on and are in a straitjacket .""","""Obama is threatening that title .""",,
1005,269,"""... and be used to try innocent people in a court of law .""","""You lost me there . Try them how and for what ?""",DISAGREE,"""and be used to try innocent people in a court of law .""","""You lost me there . Try them how and for what ?""",,
1014,271,"""To imply that an unborn child is not human/a person""","""Just because it is human does n't mean it 's a human being . I 'm not sure what grade you 're in but that 's basic biology 101 . Your ears are human . Your ears are NOT human beings .""",DISAGREE,"""To imply that an unborn child is not human/a person""","""I 'm not sure what grade you 're in but that 's basic biology 101""",,
1016,271,"""To imply that an unborn child is not human/a person""","""Just because it is human does n't mean it 's a human being . I 'm not sure what grade you 're in but that 's basic biology 101 . Your ears are human . Your ears are NOT human beings .""",DISAGREE,"""To imply that an unborn child is not""","""human does n't mean it 's a human being . Your ears are NOT human beings .""",,
1036,284,"""First , are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ?""","""Ummm , no . How could I possibly be forcing my beliefs on you when my view is for each person to have a choice . Your view is to force society to do away with all abortions .""",DISAGREE,"""forcing your beliefs""","""each person to have a choice""",,
1084,296,"""It 's a result of Dr. Pepper , Cheetos , microwave popcorn , macaroni and cheese , hot dogs , pretzels , gum drops , high fructose corn syrup , flavors , colorings , transfats etc etc etc ....... And it ’ s getting worse fastÂ…genetic damage is accumulating in society . The medical establishment is not doing us any favors , either , by merely treating the symptoms .""","""Also , the world has ended and you are just in denial . We do n't need random assertions , so support your claims !""",DISAGREE,"""by merely treating the symptoms .""","""Also , the world has ended and you are just in denial .""",,
1087,296,"""It 's a result of Dr. Pepper , Cheetos , microwave popcorn , macaroni and cheese , hot dogs , pretzels , gum drops , high fructose corn syrup , flavors , colorings , transfats etc etc etc ....... And it ’ s getting worse fastÂ…genetic damage is accumulating in society . The medical establishment is not doing us any favors , either , by merely treating the symptoms .""","""Also , the world has ended and you are just in denial . We do n't need random assertions , so support your claims !""",DISAGREE,"""And it ’ s getting worse fastÂ…genetic damage is accumulating in society . The medical establishment is not doing us any favors""","""We do n't need random assertions , so support your claims !""",,
1089,297,"""Aikido , judo and karate wado ryu would constitute a good combination .""","""Some of these martial arts videos are remarkable .""",AGREE,"""judo and karate wado ryu would constitute a good combination""","""martial arts videos are remarkable .""",,
1096,298,"""... to ToE because it means genetic evolution is a fraud . Evolution , thus , should not be a theory based on changes in genes , but a theory based on changes in traits .""","""Well , it might help if you could propose a mechanism for such changing traits that would stand up as well as the current model of genetic inheritance .""",DISAGREE,"""changes in traits""","""propose a mechanism for such""",,
1117,309,"""I have laid down some conditions before I give up my guns . They are not going to happen . There is no way I see within my life , that the 2nd Amendment will be repealled . There is no way that the National Guard will become `` militia-ized `` in my life time .""","""Hey here is the definition of infringement 1 : the act of infringing 2 : an encroachment or trespass on a right or privilege So tell me how you are pro right to bear arms if you want limits on that right ?""",AGREE,"""I have laid down some conditions before I give up my guns . They are not going to happen . There is no way I see within my life , that the 2nd Amendment will be ``""","""So tell me how you are pro right to bear arms if you want limits on that right ?""",,
1137,312,"""16 At that time Menahem , starting out from Tirzah , attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity , because they refused to open their gates . He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women .""","""Sure looks like he personally caused or ordered quite a few abortions . That 's not to mention all the infanticide and child killing ( if you want those verses I 'll be happy to post them - over twenty of them ) and the genocide he has done . God has directly killed more people than can be attributed to Satan in the Bible ( going by what the Bible descrines , satan only directly caused about 10 deaths as opposed to God 's over 2 million murders ) . Oh , and , sorry Phyllis , but these ones ARE very clearly abortion .""",AGREE,"""He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women .""","""these ones ARE very clearly abortion .""",,
1134,312,"""16 At that time Menahem , starting out from Tirzah , attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity , because they refused to open their gates . He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women .""","""Sure looks like he personally caused or ordered quite a few abortions . That 's not to mention all the infanticide and child killing ( if you want those verses I 'll be happy to post them - over twenty of them ) and the genocide he has done . God has directly killed more people than can be attributed to Satan in the Bible ( going by what the Bible descrines , satan only directly caused about 10 deaths as opposed to God 's over 2 million murders ) . Oh , and , sorry Phyllis , but these ones ARE very clearly abortion .""",AGREE,"""16 At that time Menahem , starting out from Tirzah , attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity , because they refused to open their gates .""","""over twenty of them ) and the genocide he has done . God has directly killed more people than can be attributed to Satan in the Bible""",,
1158,316,"""For instance , highly successful modern methods of phylogenetic inference assume such a dependence implicitly when they implement different rates for transition and transversion changes . Likewise , for two decades , developmental evolutionists have been emphasizing the importance of developmental `` constraints `` that influence course of evolution via their effects on the generation of variation . Thus , while there are clearly common threads linking past and present thought in evolutionary biology , the evolutionary theory of today is not that of Darwin , nor even that of Darwin 's mid-20th-century successors .""","""`` The `` ? There is no single interpretation of the ToE . There is a debate going on between supporters of Punctuated Equilibrium and Gradualism , for example . It does n't matter that this website asserts that this one interpretation is accepted . I do n't think I accept it , but I do n't know for sure , as you seem to have chosen a website which is unclear on some points . ( Of course , the websites that are not unclear do n't often support your point of view ... )""",DISAGREE,"""for two decades , developmental evolutionists have been emphasizing the importance of developmental `` constraints""","""There is no single interpretation of the ToE .""",,
1164,317,"""In a similar fashion , we have many conflicting evidences that we are still supposed to accept ... se my post with regard to the different and conflicting schools of thought about the ascent of man . You said ... `` I 'll throw in a personal question . Would you be willing to accept evolution as truth if you seen tomorrow that a dog which walked on two legs and had wings and could fly was born of your neighbors dog ? `` Why would such an event necessarily point to evolution ? How do you know that my neighbour is n't part of a great secret plant that has designed a dog with cyber-enhancements ? Or what about if it was an alien speices of dog that assumed dog-like characteristics to blend in with human society .""","""Well I 'm pretty sure if it was cyber-enhancements then that dog never would have been born for you to see . It would be in a lab somewhere . You are right that it is possible that this is the case , but over time you would have found out about it assuming the dog was born for you to see indicating there is no cover-up or secret made of it and you would learn all about it in the future . A year goes by , scientists say it was genuine evolution . Would that be enough evidence ?""",AGREE,"""You said ... `` I 'll throw in a personal question . Would you be willing to accept evolution as truth if you seen tomorrow that a dog which walked on two legs and had wings and could fly was born of your neighbors dog ? `` Why would such an event necessarily point to evolution ? How do you know that my neighbour is n't part of a great secret plant that has designed a dog with cyber-enhancements ? Or what about if it was an alien speices of dog that assumed dog-like characteristics to blend in with human society .""","""Well I 'm pretty sure if it was cyber-enhancements then that dog never would have been born for you to see . It would be in a lab somewhere . You are right that it is possible that this is the case , but over time you would have found out about it assuming the dog was born for you to see indicating there is no cover-up or secret made of it and you would learn all about it in the future . A year goes by , scientists say it was genuine evolution . Would that be enough evidence ?""",,
1228,347,"""Genesis 6:13 And God said to Noah , Â “ I have determined to make an end of all flesh , for the earth is filled with violence through them . Behold , I will destroy them with the earth .""","""This is obviously not talking about abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""God Noah , destroy""","""not talking abortion""",,
1230,347,"""Genesis 6:13 And God said to Noah , Â “ I have determined to make an end of all flesh , for the earth is filled with violence through them . Behold , I will destroy them with the earth .""","""This is obviously not talking about abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""Behold , I will destroy them with the earth""","""This is obviously not talking about abortion""",,
1235,349,"""Umm ... thats the point of saying God of the Gaps - when science fills in the gaps then there is less for your God to do . This is just pure intentional ignorance - you do realise Peddlar , that things can happen over time ? Not to mention that evolutionary hypothesis have been made and then tested - protein homology for one , there is no way anyone knew the answer before hand but what was observed later when technology improved is what was expected . DNA dating pretty much gives the same time for common ancestors as fossils do . There is really no difference between carrying out an experiment a fraction of a second in the past and observing it than millions of years - other than the latter makes it a little difficult to get all the evidence sometime . Science is the current sum of human knowledge about how the world works . Never get published though There is a massive amount of evidence that points to things being designed via evolution rather than a concious designer - there are massive amount of badly designed organs and organisms , either God is spiteful or incompetant . Lets not go into the parasitic wasps and hyperparasitic wasps which are what made Darwin convert ( or part of it ) . He could n't beleive that a kind benevolent creator would design such horrors intentionally . Having something 's larvae consume your organs whilst still alive and feeding of another catapilar 's guts whilst still inside them strikes you as a kind and good thing to do ?""","""Mayabe this is a miniscule amount of suffering compared to what awaits you on the flipside . Weather it be an eternity of Bliss or agony and suffering . Who really knows . Mayabe those who have this happen to them have it coming to them ?""",DISAGREE,"""God , DNA convert""","""suffering Bliss agony""",,
1234,349,"""Umm ... thats the point of saying God of the Gaps - when science fills in the gaps then there is less for your God to do . This is just pure intentional ignorance - you do realise Peddlar , that things can happen over time ? Not to mention that evolutionary hypothesis have been made and then tested - protein homology for one , there is no way anyone knew the answer before hand but what was observed later when technology improved is what was expected . DNA dating pretty much gives the same time for common ancestors as fossils do . There is really no difference between carrying out an experiment a fraction of a second in the past and observing it than millions of years - other than the latter makes it a little difficult to get all the evidence sometime . Science is the current sum of human knowledge about how the world works . Never get published though There is a massive amount of evidence that points to things being designed via evolution rather than a concious designer - there are massive amount of badly designed organs and organisms , either God is spiteful or incompetant . Lets not go into the parasitic wasps and hyperparasitic wasps which are what made Darwin convert ( or part of it ) . He could n't beleive that a kind benevolent creator would design such horrors intentionally . Having something 's larvae consume your organs whilst still alive and feeding of another catapilar 's guts whilst still inside them strikes you as a kind and good thing to do ?""","""Mayabe this is a miniscule amount of suffering compared to what awaits you on the flipside . Weather it be an eternity of Bliss or agony and suffering . Who really knows . Mayabe those who have this happen to them have it coming to them ?""",DISAGREE,"""Having something 's larvae consume your organs whilst still alive and feeding of another catapilar 's guts whilst still inside them strikes you as a kind and good thing to do ?""","""Mayabe this is a miniscule amount of suffering compared to what awaits you on the flipside""",,
1238,350,"""Regarding the stars , I have a thought . We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age . If this were true it would explain the difference between the `` old `` and `` new `` earth theory .""","""That does n't work , sorry . The speed of light through space is constant , that 's why a light year can be used as a measure of distance .""",DISAGREE,"""We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age""","""That does n't work , sorry .""",,
1242,358,"""I will give a brief stab at giving positive evidence .""","""But what you are being challenged to do is to give some evidence for the idea that the world was created less than 10,000 years ago . In other words , `` If Genesis-style creation were true , we would expect to see ( fill in the blank ) . ``""",DISAGREE,"""I will give a brief stab at giving positive evidence .""","""Genesis-style creation were true , we would expect to see""",,
1246,359,"""Where did that speck come from that went `` bang `` and out of it comes everything we see ?""","""The observable universe represents an event horizon , outside of which we can not see . The actual extent of the universe beyond that is at present unknowable . Current versions of M-theory hold that our universe was formed from the collisions of branes in a higher dimension .""",DISAGREE,"""Where did that speck come from that went `` bang `` and out of it comes everything we see ?""","""The observable universe represents an event horizon , outside of which we can not see . The actual extent of the universe beyond that is at present""",,
1270,365,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 `` Canada , Australia , and New Zealand all have many guns ( though not nearly as many handguns as does the United States ) . The key difference is that these countries do a much better job than we do of keeping guns out of the wrong hands . Their experience shows that when there are reasonable restrictions , relatively few outlaws can possess or use guns. `` - http : //www.vahv.org/NEJM-ed.html I am 100 % in favor of outlaws not having guns . If you have not noticed , 3 groups of people can not have guns in this country . 1 ) The insane 2 ) Criminals 3 ) Domestic violence perps It is currently illegal for outlaws to have guns . Passing another law will just make outlaws `` double-lly `` illegal . NO MORE LAWS are need . ENFORCEMENT of current laws is what is needed . If law # 1 is not enforced , what makes you think law # 2 will be enforced ?""","""Well if you 're going to quote that article that mentions Canada to support your opinion , then does that mean you 're in favor of gun registration and licensing ? Canada has them . And if the NRA is really interested in enforcing laws why do they ask congress to reduce the budget of law enforcement ? The NRA uses its political muscle to make it easier for criminals to obtain guns . Robert Ricker , former top lawyer of the NRA , talks about it .""",DISAGREE,"""Canada , Australia , and New Zealand all have many guns""","""then does that mean you 're in favor of gun registration and licensing ? . And if the NRA is really interested in enforcing laws why do they ask congress to reduce the budget of law enforcement ?""",,
1275,366,"""You do realize that a militia is nothing more than a group of armed citizens , do you ?""","""by this stupidity a KKK mob with guns is a militia !""",DISAGREE,"""militia is nothing more than a group of armed citizens""","""KKK mob with guns is a militia""",,
1274,366,"""You do realize that a militia is nothing more than a group of armed citizens , do you ?""","""by this stupidity a KKK mob with guns is a militia !""",DISAGREE,"""You do realize that a militia is nothing more than a group of armed citizens""","""KKK mob with guns is a militia !""",,
1310,376,"""Jefferson warned us against foreign entanglements .""","""So why did we spend 600 billion on the Iraq war ?""",DISAGREE,"""Jefferson warned us against foreign entanglements""","""why did we spend 600 billion on the Iraq war""",,
1315,378,"""Now that 's a bald-faced lie""","""No - it 's not . Your stand on rape victims proves it .""",DISAGREE,"""Now that 's a bald-faced lie""","""No - it 's not .""",,
1316,378,"""Now that 's a bald-faced lie""","""No - it 's not . Your stand on rape victims proves it .""",DISAGREE,"""that 's a bald-faced lie""","""No - it 's not .""",,
1324,380,"""They both like to indoctrinate the young . That was the point .""","""And where exactly is your proof that `` Stop , do n't touch , leave the area , tell an adult `` is indoctrination and translates to `` go out and buy a gun , buy as many guns as possible , obsess over the gun , etc. ``""",DISAGREE,"""They both like to indoctrinate the young . That was the point .""","""And where exactly is your proof that `` Stop , do n't touch , leave the area , tell an adult `` is indoctrination and translates to `` go out and buy a gun , buy as many guns as possible , obsess over the gun ,""",,
1343,383,"""I hope you dont believe everything that is written in a textbook that has been changed over and over . The Bible never has .""","""Actually the Bible has changed , not to mention had omissions .""",DISAGREE,"""I hope you dont believe everything that is written in a textbook that has been changed over and over . The Bible never has .""","""Actually the Bible has changed , not to mention had omissions .""",,
1360,393,"""Even though if it seems like they are n't listening , I think subconsciously , they recognize very well that they are wrong .""","""You know , considering how little ray knows about science , do you think we could write a creationist load of * * * * and take these XXXXXX for all their money ?""",DISAGREE,"""they recognize very well that they are wrong""","""do you think we could write a creationist load of * * * * and take these XXXXXX for all their money ?""",,
1366,394,"""So since she does n't come out , we just assume that the four people that they have affidavits from are not lying , or maybe BEING PAID BY THE KERRY CAMPAIGN ?""","""So the Kerry campaign paid them 4 years ago ? The transcript is from 2000. http : //www.truthtree.com/Censorship/posts/141.html""",DISAGREE,"""we just assume that the four people that they have affidavits from are not lying ,""","""So the Kerry campaign paid them 4 years ago ?""",,
1372,395,"""I believe there should be laws that only trained , licensed , medical professionals conduct abortions . I also would support that late pregnancy abortions only occur if a doctor deems them medically necesary . ( And I mean DOCTOR - not religious leaders or peckerwood politicians - a DOCTOR . )""","""( Playing devil 's advocate ) And , by what authority would you deny a woman 's `` right to choose `` an abortion that happens to be `` late in her pregnancy ? ``""",DISAGREE,"""support that late pregnancy abortions only occur if a doctor deems them medically""","""what authority would you deny a woman 's `` right to choose `` an abortion that happens to be `` late in her pregnancy ? ``""",,
1395,400,"""In Genesis , humans are created seperately from all other creatures , but apes and monkeys are not specifically mentioned .""","""But on the other hand , Genesis is n't a scientific document . No wonder . Why would a bronze age nomad from the Levant be aware of at least 3 tailless species of primates , or even the tailed primates from Africa , South America , and even Madigascar . If they are n't mentioned in the Bible , do they exist ?""",DISAGREE,"""In Genesis , humans are created seperately from all other creatures , but apes and monkeys are not specifically mentioned .""","""But on the other hand , Genesis is n't a scientific""",,
1399,401,"""so we would penalize financially those who want to have kids ?""","""Well , I forgot to add one thing : a legal notice to the gov't about such behavior .""",AGREE,"""we would penalize financially""","""a legal notice to the gov't about such behavior .""",,
1402,401,"""so we would penalize financially those who want to have kids ?""","""Well , I forgot to add one thing : a legal notice to the gov't about such behavior .""",AGREE,"""so we would penalize financially those who want to have kids ?""","""Well , I forgot to add one thing : a legal notice to the gov't about such behavior .""",,
1404,402,"""The court followed the idea of not changing the game after it has been played . They changed the law , but they wont undo what had been done before the law change . For example , say the changed the fine for speeding to 10,000 dollars . People who had already been given speeding tickets would not be fined more money . People who were married before prop 8 did so completely legally . The law has been changed , but the act of marrying that they performed was legal at the time it was performed , so it would be wrong to undo that .""","""Yes , that 's all true , and it makes complete sense . But in doing this , the Court may have created a situation where plaintiffs can argue that California is denying people the equal protection of the laws , by allowing some people to be married to same-sex spouses and not allowing other people to be so married . If that is the argument that the plaintiffs make in their federal lawsuit , this could be interesting . The courts might have to interpret whether allowing some people to be married and not allowing other people to be married violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. constitution . And then they might have to decide whether this means that all same-sex couples must have the right to marry , because some of them can be legally married . In other words , this situation may be an opportunity , because no one can argue that this is a case of apples and oranges of same-sex couples being different from opposite-sex couples . Now you have same-sex couples who are legally married and same-sex couples who can not be legally married in the same state , which can be argued to be denial of equal protection of the laws . I do n't know .... it could be interesting . Maybe things wo n't play out this way . We 'll have to wait and see .""",AGREE,"""The law has been changed , but the act of marrying that they performed was legal at the time it was performed , so it would be wrong to undo that .""","""Yes , that 's all true , and it makes complete sense . Now you have same-sex couples who are legally married and same-sex couples who can not be legally married in the same state , which can be argued to be denial of equal protection of the laws .""",,
1437,408,"""Furthermore , as usual your analysis is ridiculously limited . Arizona and Arkansas , two states with anti-gay measures , voted for McCain electorally . Florida voted for Obama by a margin of 51 % . If we go with some easy/sleazy assumptions for quick math , that means that if about 2 % of those voting for Obama decided they did n't want gay marriage , then the anti-gay marriage initiative would pass .""","""And your analysis is flat out lacking . What everyone else seems to realize is that the reason Obama won is because of FAR higher turnout , many by African American voters . ( Who more tend to be ... taa daa ! ... Democrats ! ) There is definitely a considerable discrepancy in Obama supporters and gay marriage supporters . Of that , there can be no doubt . And your anaysis of the FL situation is completely removed from reality . FL requires a vote of over 60 % for an amendment to pass . It would n't pass at 59 % , let alone 50 . So not only do you demonstrate a lack of even knowing what was needed there , it does n't even fit as an apt comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""Florida voted for Obama by a margin of 51 % . If we go with some""","""Obama won is because of FAR higher turnout , many by African American voters""",,
1444,409,"""Nothing at all . You think open carrying of loaded handguns in public will become fashionable in CA ? I think if anyone took to this they 'd find themselves asked to leave establishments routinely . I 'm not against concealed carry in principle but open carry seems silly to me . I smell posers .""","""Open carry is gaining momentum in Michigan , so who knows ? And the I smell posers comment ... well , I 'll just say that I think you 're jumping to a premature conclusion . I 'm catching up on this thread and have a few more pages to go , but I wanted to address this comment before I go on . Most of us who openly carry in Michigan , are licensed to conceal , but we are carrying openly to promote the concept . Let me note that I , too , believe that openly carrying an unloaded firearm is asking for trouble . I ca n't see how it could make any situation safer , with it taking seconds to load a gun and get it into battery . Luckily we carry loaded here , which drastically changes the dynamics . When one can go from either concealment or a side holstered weapon to putting holes in a center mass in under a second , that 's an effective deterrent . Then we hear the `` gun grab `` argument - if you 're openly carrying , anyone could grab your gun . This just is n't practical . If a criminal wants a gun , h'es going to B & amp ; E a house or obtain it by other means than trying to take it off of someone who 's wearing one . There 's just too big a chance of getting shot . Not to mention that when someone is openly carrying , they generally have a heightened state of awareness . We pay more attention to what 's going on around us . Another hitch in that argument is equipment . Most who OC , like me , have retention holsters . They `` lock `` the gun into place in the holster and a button must be pressed to draw the weapon . Therefore , someone would n't be able to just sneak up and pull the weapon from its holster . Criminals traditionally go for easy targets . If Joe is visibly armed and Pete is n't , which would be the more likely victim ? If a thug walks into a C-store with ill intentions and sees a customer or two armed , I can say with certainty that the thug will wait until the store 's empty or pick another location . Carrying openly can be an effective crime deterrent , and seeing armed good guys here and there is a constant reminder to the criminal element that we ( , the People ) are taking arms and proactively defending ourselves . Just bear these things in mind before jumping on the `` open carry is crazy `` bandwagon .""",DISAGREE,"""You think open carrying of loaded handguns in public will become fashionable in CA""","""the People are taking arms and proactively defending ourselves""",,
1461,412,"""Your god is also the god of deceit . Why else would he erase all evidence of such a flood ? Why erase the bones from the animals that must have died as the emigrated from the arks resting place ? Answer those two and I 'll have lots more""","""He did n't erase all evidence . We have the Bible account . In fact , we 've got accounts from heaps of different cultures all around the world . We 've got cultures from all over who have a memory of what happened , and despite this , no one believes them .""",DISAGREE,"""Your god is also the god of deceit .""","""He did n't erase all evidence . We have the Bible account .""",,
1476,415,"""Do n't let him off the hook that easily . Make him explain its development in the womb .""","""Oh ! You mean how it 's a tail during the earlier stages of fetal develop -- Ah , now I see . That was supposed to be the trick . Sorry Electrolyte , but that was not a funny joke .""",DISAGREE,"""development in the womb .""","""earlier stages of fetal develop""",,
1477,415,"""Do n't let him off the hook that easily . Make him explain its development in the womb .""","""Oh ! You mean how it 's a tail during the earlier stages of fetal develop -- Ah , now I see . That was supposed to be the trick . Sorry Electrolyte , but that was not a funny joke .""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't let him off the hook that easily . Make him explain its development in the womb .""","""Oh ! You mean how it 's a tail during the earlier stages of fetal develop -- Ah , now I see . That was supposed to be the trick . Sorry Electrolyte , but that was not a funny joke .""",,
1489,417,"""However , not all members of the population are able to breed .""","""And reproduction rates are not uniform among a population . Do n't let him bait you into following his unstated assumptions . However , I must say that those are fine examples of competition within populations . Good work . Same with `` artificial `` ( or at least , not exactly natural ) selection .""",AGREE,"""However , not all members of the population are able to breed .""","""And reproduction rates are not uniform among a population . Do n't let him bait you into following his unstated assumptions .""",,
1508,420,"""What is the `` Scientific Method `` of evolutionary research in contrast to the `` Scientific Method `` of Creation research ?""","""In science , a scientific method actually exists . There is no scientific method in creationism . Religion can not use the scientific method .""",DISAGREE,"""the `` Scientific Method `` of evolutionary research the `` Scientific Method `` of Creation research""","""In science , a scientific method actually exists . There is no scientific method in creationism .""",,
1519,422,"""Do n't get me wrong . This is n't exactly a trip to Sunday school . You should n't accept packing an arsenal around in the trunk as if it were completely innocuous . It kinda seems suspicious like a primer colored Nissan Maxima with five guys wearing stocking caps sitting in a vacant lot at 3 a.m ......""","""Actually ... I do believe there ARE laws against people wearing masks in public . IIRC , some locations even have laws against adults wearing masks in public on Halloween . But , as to the story ... Yes , cops are IGNORANT and DO LIE ALL THE TIME . But , what 's new ? As for a trunk loaded with assault rifles ... I 've done that several times . Just not to an airport . I hope he sues the city and I also hope he ( or someone else ) takes CA 's anti-gun laws to the supreme court .""",DISAGREE,"""You should n't accept packing an arsenal around in the trunk as if it were completely innocuous .""","""As for a trunk loaded with assault rifles ... I 've done that several times .""",,
1530,424,"""Yes , that is generally the main debate , because the fetus has not done anything to deserve to get aborted .""","""And the mother has not done anything to be forced to give birth .""",DISAGREE,"""the fetus has not done anything to deserve to get aborted .""","""the mother has not done anything to be forced to give birth .""",,
1528,424,"""Yes , that is generally the main debate , because the fetus has not done anything to deserve to get aborted .""","""And the mother has not done anything to be forced to give birth .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , that is generally the main debate , because the fetus has not done anything to deserve to get aborted .""","""And the mother has not done anything to be forced to give birth .""",,
1555,430,"""Please . PLEASE , read an introductory Geology or Geography/Geomorphology textbook . Then we 'll talk . Yikes . Waxy""","""What would be the point in doing that when they are all based on evolution . This argument wont ever end because neither creationism nor evoluionism can be proved as fact . Its always gon na just be a battle between beliefs . Telling him to read that is just you trying to convince him of ur beliefs but at the same time he 's doing the same thing with u . There is no sense in suggesting such things .""",DISAGREE,"""Please . PLEASE , read an introductory Geology or Geography/Geomorphology textbook""","""Telling him to read that is just you trying to convince him of ur beliefs but at the same time he 's doing the same thing with u . There is no sense in suggesting such things""",,
1585,436,"""exactly . they 're like the swiss , just ca n't seem to make up their minds I think i 'll sway this way today , wait maybe that way .""","""Just liike Stalin""",AGREE,"""they 're like the swiss wait maybe that way""","""Just liike Stalin""",,
1597,438,"""Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday condemned the  “ grave deviations and failures ” of capitalism exposed by the financial crisis and issued a strong call for a  “ true world political authority ” to oversee a return to ethics in the global economy .... His attack on unbridled capitalism and unregulated market forces .... his plea for financiers in particular to refocus on ethics .... Pope Benedict ’ s emphasis on the need for  “ forms of redistribution of wealth ” is also likely to fuel the debate at the summit – to be attended by 39 heads of government and international institutions – over the failure of several rich nations , most notably Italy and France , to honour past aid commitments .""","""And down the road abit do n't be surprised if you see Sunday Blue Laws being enacted to enforce worship on Sunday ! All in the name of giving man a rest from toil of course !""",AGREE,"""financial crisis attack on unbridled capitalism""","""Sunday Blue Laws enforce worship on Sunday""",,
1624,442,"""Did n't a famous gangster once escape from jail using a gun he carved from soap ? Maybe OZ should ban bars of soap ?""","""Yes that actually did happen . And knowing our nanny state government where anything that could cause harm is banned we have it banned . BTW do any of you know of some great airsoft fields over in USA ?""",AGREE,"""famous gangster once escape from jail using a gun he carved from soap""","""Yes that actually did happen""",,
1619,442,"""Did n't a famous gangster once escape from jail using a gun he carved from soap ? Maybe OZ should ban bars of soap ?""","""Yes that actually did happen . And knowing our nanny state government where anything that could cause harm is banned we have it banned . BTW do any of you know of some great airsoft fields over in USA ?""",AGREE,"""should ban bars of soap ?""","""state government where anything that could cause harm is banned we have it banned .""",,
1639,444,"""society which accepts the idea that the origin of the cosmos could be explained in terms of an explosion , reveals more about the society itself than about the universe .""","""But that is a misunderstanding of what the big bang theory is . What it is n't is an explosion . I do n't suppose you have actually studied any astrophysics or astronomy upon which you base your rejection of the big bang , have you ?""",DISAGREE,"""reveals more about the society itself""","""But that is a misunderstanding of""",,
1640,444,"""society which accepts the idea that the origin of the cosmos could be explained in terms of an explosion , reveals more about the society itself than about the universe .""","""But that is a misunderstanding of what the big bang theory is . What it is n't is an explosion . I do n't suppose you have actually studied any astrophysics or astronomy upon which you base your rejection of the big bang , have you ?""",DISAGREE,"""society which accepts the idea that the origin of the cosmos could be explained in terms of an explosion , reveals more about the society itself than about the universe .""","""I do n't suppose you have actually studied any astrophysics or astronomy upon which you base your rejection of the big bang , have you ?""",,
1638,444,"""society which accepts the idea that the origin of the cosmos could be explained in terms of an explosion , reveals more about the society itself than about the universe .""","""But that is a misunderstanding of what the big bang theory is . What it is n't is an explosion . I do n't suppose you have actually studied any astrophysics or astronomy upon which you base your rejection of the big bang , have you ?""",DISAGREE,"""society which accepts the idea that the origin of the cosmos could be explained in terms of an explosion""","""But that is a misunderstanding of what the big bang theory is""",,
1653,445,"""What predictions can creationism make ? Does belief a creator necessarily imply that such fossils will be found ? If evolution predicts them , and creationism makes no predictions , what will it mean if and when such fossils are found ?""","""Actually the Bible/creation makes quite a lot predictions that science has recently verified . Some examples include : that the Earth is round ( Isa . 40:22 ) ; the Earth is suspended in space without support ( Job 26:7 ) ; sea currents ; the hydrologic cycle ; the first and second laws of thermodynamics ( e.g . Isa 51:6 ) ; and the fact that Orion cluster is seperating and that the Pleadies cluster is staying together as a group ( Job 38:31 ) ; and many others . Since there was a global flood according to the Bible , we would expect there to be many fossils rapidly despoited and this is what we see in some parts of the fossil record . For example , there are some fossil beds are found in sedimentary rock , deposited by water so rapidly as to bury some creatures while still giving birth and eating food . Creationists have also made predictions such as the fact that there can be variation with in a kind , but one kind can not change into other kinds . This is what we observe now in the present , and is backed up by the fossil record . We would expect that many rocks , such as Uluru in Australia , would not be `` ordered in layers `` . Once again , this is what we observe . Creationists predicted that mutations and natural selection are down hill processes , i.e . information losing . We would also expect everything to be running down , we might also expect to know that some dinosaurs survived the flood but most likely died in the ice age that followed the flood . Several cultural groups have given very descriptive information about dinosaur like creatures . Remember , they would not have had a picture book with dinosaurs in it , the Aboriginal 's for example , had paintings of dinosaur like creatures in caves ; the amazing amount of design and complexity in the universe ; Laws of Nature . Also many other predictions . So as you can see , creationists have made many predictions ( as has the Bible ) and all are 100 % scientificly correct . IF , if such fossils are found and they are obviously transitional , then that would certainly aid the evolutionist case . But evolution is supposed to have millions of transitional fossils , they have a hand full of highly debatable ones . Btw , I am not trying to impress you by any means of your imagination . If I wanted to impress someone I could stay here and away from the internet . It is just that `` evolution `` is not as `` scientific `` as you may think .""",DISAGREE,"""What predictions can creationism make ?""","""the Bible/creation makes quite a lot predictions that science has recently verified""",,
1662,446,"""Actually , as Another Opinion pointed out , there are more considerations beyond that . Emotional ones . Some people would have a hard time giving up some part of themselves ( or how ever they see it ) , thus there are the cases of changed minds . Others may constantly worry later on 'how is s/he doing , are they okay or not ... ' in regards to the child . I was merely addressing certain aspects of this topic .""","""Dude , I already said I considered numerous things , so I do n't know why you keep complaining about this .""",DISAGREE,"""Some people would have a hard time giving up some part of themselves ( or how ever they see it ) ,""","""I do n't know why you keep complaining about this .""",,
1680,448,"""The article as a whole never made that argument either . Lie number .... oh I ca n't keep track anymore , let 's just call it 40 .""","""Okay Yankee Fan . Keep pretending that it does n't . Well , if you never read the article , you would n't be pretending as that would be an argument from position of ignorance .""",DISAGREE,"""The article as a whole never made that argument either . Lie number .... oh I ca n't keep track anymore , let 's just call it 40 .""","""Okay Yankee Fan . Keep pretending that it does n't . Well , if you never read the article , you would n't be pretending as that would be an argument from position of ignorance .""",,
1679,448,"""The article as a whole never made that argument either . Lie number .... oh I ca n't keep track anymore , let 's just call it 40 .""","""Okay Yankee Fan . Keep pretending that it does n't . Well , if you never read the article , you would n't be pretending as that would be an argument from position of ignorance .""",DISAGREE,"""never made that argument either .""","""never read the article , an argument from position of ignorance .""",,
1675,448,"""The article as a whole never made that argument either . Lie number .... oh I ca n't keep track anymore , let 's just call it 40 .""","""Okay Yankee Fan . Keep pretending that it does n't . Well , if you never read the article , you would n't be pretending as that would be an argument from position of ignorance .""",DISAGREE,"""The article as a whole never made that argument either .""","""if you never read the article , you would n't be pretending as that would be an argument from position of ignorance .""",,
1708,453,"""If the stars were created near the earth and then streched out as the Bible says they were the relationship of time and distance would be quite different and would explain how light from a distant star could be seen .""","""Please start with the Bible passage . Then explain what you mean by `` stretched out `` and why this would affect our perception of space and time .""",DISAGREE,"""If the stars were created near the earth and then streched out as the""","""Please start with the Bible passage .""",,
1712,454,"""WHEN GOVERNMENTS ARE A THREAT The U.N. claims that guns used in armed conflicts cause 300,000 deaths worldwide every year . The solution proposed in conference 's `` Program of Action `` ? Keep rebels from getting guns by requiring that countries `` prevent , combat and eradicate `` what those countries who want to stop rebels from getting the guns define as `` the illicit trade in small arms `` This may be an understandable `` solution `` from governments that do n't trust their citizens . But it also represents a dangerous disregard for their citizens ' safety and freedom . Why ? First , and most obviously , because not all insurgencies are `` bad. `` It is hardly surprising that infamous regimes such as those in Syria , Cuba , Rwanda , Vietnam , Zimbabwe , and Sierra Leone support these `` reforms. `` To ban providing guns to rebels in totalitarian countries is like arguing that there is never anything such as a just war . In hindsight , would Europeans have preferred that no resistance was put up against Hitler ? Should the French or Norwegian resistance movements simply have given up ? Surely this would have minimized war causalities .""","""Do you think this resistance got their most useful weapons out of a normal store ? Please don´t try such arguments without knowing about European history .""",DISAGREE,"""In hindsight , would Europeans have preferred that no resistance was put up against Hitler ?""","""Please try such arguments without knowing about European history .""",,
1719,455,"""I got the information from : `` Finally , there is large-scale evolution that may be referred to as molecules-to-man evolution ,""","""And so on . Yes . a lie generated by creationist liars is what you use as source for what scientists are claimed to adhere to ? Your dishonesty is actually rather startling . This is the worst attempt at dishonesty I have seen from lying creationists yet , and your gleeful introduction of that lie shows how truly and completely dishonest you are . Would you stop your lies . You are pathetic .""",DISAGREE,"""Finally , there is large-scale evolution that may be referred to as molecules-to-man evolution ,""","""Yes . a lie generated by creationist liars""",,
1735,458,"""However , one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers is that they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""... or facts""",AGREE,"""one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""or facts""",,
1737,459,"""Way to support your controversial assertion , Bell .""","""Way to miss the entire point , Clerisian . My point was that is it a horrible experience for many women , and that I wish we could strive towards a society where abortions were no longer needed . Wishful thinking by a midtwenties female who just went through the most horrifying experience of her life , forgive me if I did n't clarify well enough . I ca n't imagine that anyone would disagree with that .""",DISAGREE,"""Way to support your controversial assertion""","""My point was that is it a horrible experience for many women""",,
1749,461,"""Honestly , people like you working within the medical community are just ... wrong .""","""but you forget to add , `` in my opinion `` .""",DISAGREE,"""you working within the medical community are just ... wrong .""","""forget to add , `` in my opinion `` .""",,
1751,461,"""Honestly , people like you working within the medical community are just ... wrong .""","""but you forget to add , `` in my opinion `` .""",DISAGREE,"""people like you working within the medical community are just ... wrong .""","""you forget to add , `` in my opinion `` .""",,
1756,462,"""At the time , I was picturing something along the lines of a T-rex with chicken legs . But still , unles the beast above the legs had developed to be lighter , it would overwhelm the more spindly birdlike legs .""","""Theropods had hollow bones like birds . It was `` developed to be lighter [ sic ] . ``""",AGREE,"""something along the lines of a T-rex with chicken legs . unles the beast above the legs had developed to be lighter , it would overwhelm the more spindly birdlike legs""","""Theropods had hollow bones like birds . It was `` developed to be lighter [""",,
1764,478,"""Now why would it `` PAIN `` Collins to acknowledge that much of human evolution has had little to do with genes and and more to do with culture and environment ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Why would he care ?""","""That is n't what it says at all , it says he took pains as in he made this point particularly clear . Whilst genes are reacting to changes in human behaviour ( which is n't news , there are loads of examples like this . One of the best ones would be how alcohol tolerance varies across the world between cultures who have used fermentation and those that traditionally boiled water ) he is making it clear that these behavioural changes are not genetic .""",DISAGREE,"""PAIN human evolution genes and and more to do with culture""","""That is n't what it says at all , it says he took pains as in he made this point particularly human behaviour""",,
1773,480,"""What parts of the old testament actually help anyone do anything ?""","""It depends , now , does n't it . What are you looking to do with it . It is a great set of stories to derive moral principles out of , if you look at it in the proper light ( THe key is stories ) . From a historical point of view , it gives insight into the culture and concepts of an early people . Like anything , it is what you make of it .""",DISAGREE,"""the old testament actually help anyone do anything""","""it gives insight into the culture and concepts of an early people . Like anything""",,
1796,485,"""How could then the goverment work""","""Government does not work ; that 's why it is important to minimise it .""",DISAGREE,"""goverment work""","""important to minimise it .""",,
1822,491,"""You 're right . Both clearly stated that they did not support gay marriage . The difference that is being pointed out in the article you quoted is this : Biden DID clearly say he believed gay couples should have equal rights when it came to things like hospital visitation , insurance , etc . [ b ] He asked Palin directly whether she believed the same [ /b""","""Really ? The transcript shows that he did not ask her anything in the Gay marriage section of the discussion . Transcript can be found here : http : //elections.nytimes.com/2008/pr ... al-debate.html and here : http : //www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/ ... ipt/index.html ( click on the same-sex benefits section and the transcript shows up right next to the video )""",DISAGREE,"""Both clearly stated that they did not support gay marriage""","""he Gay marriage section of the discussion .""",,
1850,500,"""Statement on Fort Hood Tragedy Nov 6 , 2009 Washington , DC - Paul Helmke , President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence , issued the following statement about the tragedy at Fort Hood , Texas :  “ Our deepest sympathies go to the families who lost loved ones or are today visiting them in the hospital . Along with the rest of the country , we wish the Fort Hood community a return to a secure and safe environment .  “ When I heard of the tragedy yesterday , we were in the midst of planning a response to the latest dangerous legislative proposal from the gun lobby in the United States Senate - language to automatically restore access to guns to veterans designated by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and the Justice Department as  ‘ mentally incapacitated ’ or  ‘ mentally incompetent. ’ In light of what happened yesterday - a violent attack by an emotionally unstable soldier - it is even clearer that the proposal being pushed by Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina should be rejected .  “ America has seen an epidemic of horrific gun violence at churches and synagogues , workplaces , health clubs , high schools , universities , police stations and now Army bases . This latest tragedy , at a heavily fortified army base , ought to convince more Americans to reject the argument that the solution to gun violence is to arm more people with more guns in more places . Enough is enough. ” # # # As the nation 's largest , non-partisan , grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence , the Brady Campaign , with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters , works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws , regulations and public policies . The Brady Campaign is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence , where all Americans are safe at home , at school , at work , and in our communities . For continuing insight and comment on the gun issue , read Paul Helmke 's blog at Brady Campaign Blog . Visit the Brady Campaign website at Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Home . Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Media""","""`` A few deaths are a tragedy , millions are just a statistic `` - Mussolini ?""",DISAGREE,"""Prevent Gun Violence , Along with the rest of the country , we wish the Fort Hood community a return to a secure and safe environment .""","""A few deaths are a tragedy , millions are just a statistic `` - Mussolini ?""",,
1851,500,"""Statement on Fort Hood Tragedy Nov 6 , 2009 Washington , DC - Paul Helmke , President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence , issued the following statement about the tragedy at Fort Hood , Texas :  “ Our deepest sympathies go to the families who lost loved ones or are today visiting them in the hospital . Along with the rest of the country , we wish the Fort Hood community a return to a secure and safe environment .  “ When I heard of the tragedy yesterday , we were in the midst of planning a response to the latest dangerous legislative proposal from the gun lobby in the United States Senate - language to automatically restore access to guns to veterans designated by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and the Justice Department as  ‘ mentally incapacitated ’ or  ‘ mentally incompetent. ’ In light of what happened yesterday - a violent attack by an emotionally unstable soldier - it is even clearer that the proposal being pushed by Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina should be rejected .  “ America has seen an epidemic of horrific gun violence at churches and synagogues , workplaces , health clubs , high schools , universities , police stations and now Army bases . This latest tragedy , at a heavily fortified army base , ought to convince more Americans to reject the argument that the solution to gun violence is to arm more people with more guns in more places . Enough is enough. ” # # # As the nation 's largest , non-partisan , grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence , the Brady Campaign , with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters , works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws , regulations and public policies . The Brady Campaign is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence , where all Americans are safe at home , at school , at work , and in our communities . For continuing insight and comment on the gun issue , read Paul Helmke 's blog at Brady Campaign Blog . Visit the Brady Campaign website at Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Home . Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Media""","""`` A few deaths are a tragedy , millions are just a statistic `` - Mussolini ?""",DISAGREE,"""America has seen an epidemic of horrific gun violence""","""A few deaths are a tragedy , millions are just a statistic `` - Mussolini""",,
1856,502,"""What parts of the Bible are true , and how do you disguingish between the information that is true and not true ?""","""This is not my problem . As I explained above , I just have to show inconsistency in order to reject the validity of all the claims in the Bible as being undeniable truth . And with the Bible , that 's damn easy to do .""",DISAGREE,"""What parts of the Bible are true""","""This is not my problem . I just have to show inconsistency in order to reject the validity of all the claims in the Bible as being undeniable truth .""",,
1878,508,"""Is a fertilized egg , a zygote , an embryo , a fetus that valuable that a woman , her life , health or quality of life should be sacrificed for its sake""","""quality of life ? yes it is reasonable to expect a quality of life ethic to take the backseat to a sanctity of life ethic . Health ? well , what is your definition of health ?""",DISAGREE,"""Is a fertilized egg , a zygote , an embryo , a fetus that valuable that a woman , her life , health or quality of life should be sacrificed for its sake""","""quality of life ? yes it is reasonable to expect a quality of life ethic to take the backseat to a sanctity of life ethic . Health ? well , what is your definition of health ?""",,
1887,510,"""Do n't be so quick to fire off your mouth .""","""I see no reason for you to take this tone with me . And you wonder why we would be uncomfortable with folks like you having the ability to blast anyone who might annoy you . Learn some manners , will you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't be so quick to fire off your mouth .""","""I see no reason for you to take this tone with me""",,
1910,516,"""Our standard expectation of evolution -- slow , steady , gradual improvement , hence change , through time -- is indeed a myth . Niles Eldredge""","""Out of context , and therefore misunderstood , quote .""",DISAGREE,"""expectation of evolution""","""Out of context""",,
1920,519,"""I was thinking that , since people who buy weapons are the main group that makes the police necessary , then why not have a tax on weapons and use that , and only that , to fund the police force ? Such a tax is boycottable and user-relevant .""","""Actually we should tax those that refuse to own a gun as THEY are the ones that make the police neccessary since as sheeple they depend on others for their self defense ....""",DISAGREE,"""I was thinking that , since people who buy weapons are the main group that makes the police necessary""","""Actually we should tax those that refuse to own a gun as THEY are the ones that make the police neccessary since as sheeple they depend on others for their self defense""",,
1926,521,"""Concealed carry just makes the problem worse .""","""How ?""",DISAGREE,"""Concealed carry just makes the problem worse .""","""How ?""",,
1931,522,"""Actually the defending of ATF would n't do much with regular guns since they have little to do with them . ATFs function is with NFA guns , which you probably know little , or nothing about .""","""Actually , I have fired an NFA gun before .""",DISAGREE,"""you probably know little , or nothing about .""","""I have fired an NFA gun""",,
1950,527,"""Like I said in # 2 , most of the earth ’ s oxygen comes from the plants in the ocean and we still have al the other forest .""","""what other forest ? By your logic there would only be one left in the entire world , and it would be what , the size on central park ?""",DISAGREE,"""and we still have al the other forest .""","""what other forest ?""",,
1959,529,"""I think there is something wrong with Premse One . It translates into English as `` If God exists , then he exists in all possible worlds. `` No logical rule justifies this statement . It is equally foolish to say that `` If England exists , then it exists in all possible worlds. `` But clearly , England does not exist in the possible world where Earth never formed .""","""the reason why premise 1 can logically stand is that God is first of all defined as the `` greatest possible being `` . no matter what reality we are considering , such a thing as the greatest possible being in that relity must exist . '' greatest `` is a superlative , compared to all other beings that exist its like `` the oldest man alive `` . no matter what scenario , such a person as the oldest man alive will always exist , therefore such a man ( that fits that definition ) will have a necessary existence""",DISAGREE,"""think there is something wrong with Premse One No logical rule justifies this statement""","""why premise 1 can logically stand is that God is first of all defined as the `` greatest possible being `` . a thing as the greatest possible being in that relity must exist""",,
1971,532,"""DC has a law that human and civil rights can not be put up for a vote , this is the way it should be in the rest of the country . Why do you want to be able to vote on other peoples lives ? Why is it that you are so cruel ?""","""Since when was having the gov't recognize a marriage a human right ?""",DISAGREE,"""DC human and civil rights""","""gov't human right""",,
1978,533,"""How many times have you spammed that argument super ? 10 ? 15 ? 20 times ? CB102 : Mutations adding information CB101.2 : Mutations and new features .""","""Another strawman . Explain to me how new information and new features equals to new structures and body parts . Those links have long been refuted http : //www.creationwiki.org/ ( Talk.Or ... dd_information http : //www.creationwiki.org/ ( Talk.Or ... e_new_features""",DISAGREE,"""How many times have you spammed that argument super ?""","""Another strawman""",,
1988,535,"""However , ever since he ( Chuz ) started a thread attempting to convince others of this 'fact ' , he has consistently ignored the vast majority of arguments against his reasoning - while continuing to tout the 'fact ' in other threads .""","""I 'm not sure what thread or posts you are talking about , IANGB . But If you are talking about posts where I invited you to start a challenger 's corner debate , ... here we are .""",DISAGREE,"""ever since he ( Chuz ) started a thread attempting to convince others of this 'fact ' , he has consistently ignored the vast majority of arguments against his reasoning""","""I 'm not sure what thread or posts you are talking about , IANGB .""",,
1995,536,"""as in anyone can purchase a fire arm without a background check or gun safety training ?""","""As in anyone who can legally own a firearm should be able to carry it without needing permission .""",AGREE,"""can purchase a fire arm without a background check or gun safety training ?""","""can legally own a firearm should be able to carry it without needing permission .""",,
1996,537,"""Again , you are the affirmative , you must support your claims . Please support the claim that we are using an atheist presupposition . I think we are using more an agnostic presupposition , which is a neutral one .""","""Neutral ? One of the main standards and reference points for science and evolution on the internet is talkorigins.org . It 's promoted as an educational site - a place with answers to criticisms of the evolutionary theory . It 's every bit as biased as AnswersinGenesis , yet in many cases it 's difficult for ID proponents to target . Part of the broad definition of evolution is microevolution , about the only segment of the broad term that is provable . They can masterfully employ that to make an ID proponent appear uninformed or irrational if he questions happenstance orignis , or other unproven evolutionary assumptions . They make their atheism clear in many ways however . They devote a page to comment about the `` International Flat Earth Society `` , pretending they believe it to be a legitimate site . Almost any rational adult can see that it 's phony . ( Wikopedia calls it a hoax ) There 's nothing neutral , or even agnostic , about that site , and it appears to represent the anti-ID-in-schools mindset to a T. If there 's actually a more neutral , agnostic , scientific website that opposes ID being taught in schools , I 'd like to see it .""",DISAGREE,"""are the affirmative , you must support your claims . Please support the claim that we are using an atheist presupposition .""","""Almost any rational adult can see that it 's phony . ( Wikopedia calls it a hoax ) There 's nothing neutral , or even agnostic , about that site , and it appears to represent the anti-ID-in-schools mindset to a T. If there 's actually a more neutral , agnostic , scientific website that opposes ID being taught in schools , I 'd like to see it""",,
2001,538,"""as far as science is concerned , religion was science 's biggest proponent . in the early days everything in science was viewed from a creationist perspective . you can say that `` creationist science `` was what science came from""","""What early days are you talking about ? In ancient Greece , everything was about logic and order and was put into a polytheistic context . Then Aristotle came along and gave us `` emprical `` thought . When christianity rolled onto the scene , most `` science `` of those first 1700 years ( mostly things like astrology and alchemy ) were seen as witchcraft and such and was persecuted . Maybe you mean the early days of modern science , starting around the enlightenment period . This was the time of a rise in secular humanism and science was largely an extension of that philosophy . They used to just call it `` natural philosophy `` and it was usually at odds with church doctrine . There are , of course , exceptions to this , but on the whole science was not favored by the church . So any `` creation science `` going on was just a bunch of theologians arguing . ( actually I do remember reading about late 18th century geologists trying to fit what they found , including fossils , into a Biblical Noah 's Ark context , and then they eventually had to scrap it because things stopped fitting , and quite often ) http : //www.wsu.edu:8000/~dee/ENLIGHT/SCIREV.HTM I thought this was a pretty interesting page . I never knew all those common chemistry words came from arabic .""",DISAGREE,"""in the early days everything in science was viewed from a creationist perspective""","""Maybe you mean the early days of modern science , starting around the enlightenment period""",,
2021,542,"""See the difference is Neanderthals , and I have n't been able to get to this on here , lived longer than we do .... or at least had that potential . This is proven , ironically , by their teeth . Seems their molars erupted much later than ours do , which indicates that they matured much slower ..... thus their bones would have remained softer for much longer periods of time than ours do .""","""Support your assertion with peer-reviewed , scientific articles . Hell , you still need to support your assertion that soft bones make for `` phenotypic `` plasticity . Again , real scientists require evidence from research , or articles describing such evidence and research .""",DISAGREE,"""which indicates that they matured much slower ..... thus their bones would have remained softer for much longer periods of time than ours do .""","""Support your assertion with peer-reviewed , scientific articles .""",,
2044,548,"""Either that or my intelect has outgrown my faith , whether its a good thing or a bad thing .""","""Can your intellect explain infinity ... such a tasty word""",DISAGREE,"""Either that or my intelect has outgrown my faith , whether its a good thing or a bad thing .""","""Can your intellect explain infinity ... such a tasty word""",,
2062,552,"""You kind of misrepresent cones view . He does n't believe in abortion in cases or rape ( neither do I ) . This is why we maintain that you might be obligated to keep the violionist attached for those 9 months . Another way to look at it would be if you wanted to stay attached to the violionist . Does this mean the violionst has to do whatever you want to do now ? Do you believe you have ownership over the violionist ? Could you stab him in the back of the neck if you wanted to ?""","""I believe Cone is a woman as is Sigma . Just wanted to give props to our articulate women .""",DISAGREE,"""cones abortion in cases or rape""","""Cone Just wanted to give props to our articulate women""",,
2083,563,"""Certainly interesting . I wonder two things . I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said ? I doubt that he would have attributed the results to a `` sense of fairness `` since that is not an observable item . He likely would have stated that any two animals receiving differential rewards would have likely learned that if they wait then they also will receive a more liked item . Not a sense of justice but learning by observation . Tolman further would argue that conditioned taste responses for the monkey receiving the preferred reward would be of greater value . In other words , if they were rewarded sometime when they did n't do anything would their work rate go down compared to the other monkey ? Would the other monkey continue at the same rate although it may not accept the less preferred food ? These are important pieces I feel are missing from the information .""","""Those are some very interesting points you brought up . It 'd be interesting to see an experiment that could answer your questions .""",AGREE,"""I wonder two things . I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said ?""","""Those are some very interesting points you brought up .""",,
2082,563,"""Certainly interesting . I wonder two things . I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said ? I doubt that he would have attributed the results to a `` sense of fairness `` since that is not an observable item . He likely would have stated that any two animals receiving differential rewards would have likely learned that if they wait then they also will receive a more liked item . Not a sense of justice but learning by observation . Tolman further would argue that conditioned taste responses for the monkey receiving the preferred reward would be of greater value . In other words , if they were rewarded sometime when they did n't do anything would their work rate go down compared to the other monkey ? Would the other monkey continue at the same rate although it may not accept the less preferred food ? These are important pieces I feel are missing from the information .""","""Those are some very interesting points you brought up . It 'd be interesting to see an experiment that could answer your questions .""",AGREE,"""Certainly interesting . I wonder two things . I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said ? I doubt that he would have attributed the results to a `` sense of fairness `` since that is not an observable item . He likely would have stated that any two animals receiving differential rewards would have likely learned that if they wait then they also will receive a more liked item . Not a sense of justice but learning by observation . Tolman further would argue that conditioned taste responses for the monkey receiving the preferred reward would be of greater value . In other words , if they were rewarded sometime when they did n't do anything would their work rate go down compared to the other monkey ? Would the other monkey continue at the same rate although it may not accept the less preferred food ? These are important pieces I feel are missing from the information .""","""Those are some very interesting points you brought up . It 'd be interesting to see an experiment that could answer your questions .""",,
2081,563,"""Certainly interesting . I wonder two things . I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said ? I doubt that he would have attributed the results to a `` sense of fairness `` since that is not an observable item . He likely would have stated that any two animals receiving differential rewards would have likely learned that if they wait then they also will receive a more liked item . Not a sense of justice but learning by observation . Tolman further would argue that conditioned taste responses for the monkey receiving the preferred reward would be of greater value . In other words , if they were rewarded sometime when they did n't do anything would their work rate go down compared to the other monkey ? Would the other monkey continue at the same rate although it may not accept the less preferred food ? These are important pieces I feel are missing from the information .""","""Those are some very interesting points you brought up . It 'd be interesting to see an experiment that could answer your questions .""",AGREE,"""I would want to look closer at the study design and two , I would like to hear a beaviorist point of view on it . What would skinner have said""","""It 'd be interesting to see an experiment that could answer your questions""",,
2124,571,"""I rely on the police .""","""^ This is the funny part ! .... My answer : .45acp strapped to your hip ... .05 seconds to respond to threat ... Crocidile Dundee 's answer : Call the police ... 1-30 seconds to get to the phone .... 1-3 seconds to dial police ( if you have 911 ) 30 Seconds to 5 minutes to splain yourself ..... 5-30- ? ? ? time for police to respond .. My analysys : Your dead ! ! ! Having the logic bus mow you down : PRICELESS ! ! ( sorry Kelvin ... COuld not resist ! )""",DISAGREE,"""I rely on the police .""","""This is the funny part ! .... My answer : .45acp strapped to your hip""",,
2127,572,"""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- How are we to know that there has not been a few hundred , there are none in my neighborhood , how aboput yours ? ? ?""","""There are precious few areas on the planet that have not been explored . Those that have n't would not support the kinds of life we are talking about . There is no evidence of any interim species of apes and humans . Not one shred . Those items in the fossil record that are claimed as possibles are only possibles , are dubious at best , and are extremely rare . A recent study also showed that most characteristics of supposed alternate species of hominids were well within the variation seen in current homo sapiens . The point I was making is that if they existed we would see them .""",DISAGREE,"""How are we to know that there has not been a few hundred , there are none in my neighborhood , how aboput yours ?""","""The point I was making is that if they existed we would see them .""",,
2142,575,"""I fail to see how this tidbit is relevant , or even how it is contrary to Occam 's Razor .""","""Because it shows that Ockham was arguing against what Hi_Its_Me says the Razor is .""",DISAGREE,"""I fail to see how this tidbit is relevant , or even how it is contrary to Occam 's Razor .""","""Because it shows that Ockham was arguing against what Hi_Its_Me says the Razor is .""",,
2146,576,"""The `` fossils `` of Archy is even questionable in and of itself . The status of those `` fossils `` have also been questioned . ( And yet you use them as irrefutable evidence . )""","""Really ? Then present your evidence . Which of the Archaeopteryx fossils has been questioned ? What was the evidence upon which this was based ? What are the other possible explanations for these fossils ? Of course , you will present the source of your objections . Also the qualifications of those who presented the questions - were they mathematicians and astronomers or paleontologists and ornithologists ? And then please go on to discuss the fossils themselves . How many are there ? What are they ? Please discuss the presence or lack of the gastralia , furcula , carina , opposable hallux , fused trunk vertebrae , pneumatic bones , feathers , beak , teeth , tail ( of free vertebrae ) , fibula , clawed digits on forelimbs , preorbital fenestra , and so on . Please detail the `` status `` of these fossils , i.e. , how many opinions are there , who holds these positions , and on what evidence do they base the opinion ? If those who assert that the fossils of Archaeopteryx are questionable are correct , then what possible questioning of the `` status `` of the fossils can there be . Perhaps this will be a case where Calli has actually learned before speaking . If so , then perhaps we should start a separate thread to discuss Archaeopteryx . However , I suspect that Calli has already told us all she knows .""",DISAGREE,"""The status of those `` fossils `` have also been questioned . ( And yet you use them as irrefutable evidence . )""","""Which of the Archaeopteryx fossils has been questioned ? What was the evidence upon which this was based ?""",,
2148,577,"""Does the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms permit the private ownership of handguns or perhaps ( as in the US ) grant a right to bear arms `` that shall not be infringed `` ?""","""To the best of my knowledge , it permits private ownership of firearms , but I do n't believe it 's a right like the 2nd Ammendment . I 'd have to look into it more closely . Waxy""",AGREE,"""Does the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms permit the private ownership of handguns or perhaps ( as in the US ) grant a right to bear arms `` that shall not be infringed `` ?""","""To the best of my knowledge , it permits private ownership of firearms , but I do n't believe it 's a right like the 2nd Ammendment .""",,
2167,582,"""The militia of the Second Amendment is a militia that is described as being well regulated ( regulated by both the federal government and the states as spoken of in Article 1 of the Constitution ) . In our own day , I think the National Guard would be the only militia that qualifies as being well regulated . Alexander Hamilton spoke of the desirability of the militia being well regulated : `` It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects , whenever they were called into service for the public defense . It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army ; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness . This desirable uniformity can only be accomplished by confiding the regulation of the militia to the direction of the national authority . It is , therefore , with the most evident propriety , that the plan of the convention proposes to empower the Union `` to provide for organizing , arming , and disciplining the militia , and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States , RESERVING TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY THE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS , AND THE AUTHORITY OF TRAINING THE MILITIA ACCORDING TO THE DISCIPLINE PRESCRIBED BY CONGRESS. `` The Federalist Papers - THOMAS ( Library of Congress ) We could go back to the days when most citizens were required to enroll in the militia , have guns and get military training- to what the Founders really meant when they spoke of a well regulated militia being the security of a free state . But the Supreme Court along with pro-gun activists claiming to be pro- Second Amendment have decided to turn their back on that part of the Second Amendment while giving the lip service to the idea of a militia .""","""Well regulated as in the second amendment does not mean regulated by the government , it means well equiped and prepared . The framers of the constitution often spoke of a tyrannical government and how to keep one from coming to power , so why in the hell would they have said lets just give the government total control of guns . Your definition of well regulated makes about as much sense as adding another day to the week .""",DISAGREE,"""The militia of the Second Amendment is a militia that is described as being well regulated""","""Well regulated as in the second amendment does not mean regulated by the government""",,
2188,586,"""Oh so EVERYTHING except creation works without His help , I get it God makes everything . So God made our minds , and God made the scientific ideas that come into our minds , so God helped us understand all the things we do about science . But oh I guess that evil evolution one is the one scientific thought that came from Satan ... obviously ! ! !""","""You know what , you may be on to something with that Satan idea . Maybe he worked through Darwin to effectively divide believers over the issue of creation . I am going to ask you one more time , where is the proof for evolution ? Where are the milllions of fossilized links with slow and obvious changes supposedly caused by the `` evolving process `` ? It is useless to debate with you if you are n't going to give me any CONCLUSIVE evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""I guess that evil evolution one is the one scientific thought that came from""","""may be on to something with that Satan idea . Maybe he worked through Darwin to effectively divide believers over the issue of creation .""",,
2192,587,"""How is this a perfect design in the image and likeness of a perfect God - or was this the result of the evolution of a skeleton system made for walking on four legs that is somewhat less than perfect for bipedal locomotion ?""","""I think you can forget about God the super `` engineer `` on this one : your final question contains a necessary and sufficient condition to explain the case .""",AGREE,"""the evolution of a skeleton system made for walking on four legs""","""your final question contains a necessary and sufficient condition""",,
2201,588,"""People can still be atheists -- they just ca n't blame it on neodarwinsim .""","""What does that mean ? Do you know what a non sequitur is ? Do little voices speak to you that cause you to babble incoherently from time to time ? What does atheism have to do with neodarwinsim ? Do you actually know what either is ?""",DISAGREE,"""People can still be atheists neodarwinsim""","""What does that mean ? Do little voices speak to you that cause you to babble incoherently""",,
2209,590,"""So , you have a tiny chihuahua compared to the huge Great Dane . Same genes .""","""You mean , many of the same genes , but not identical genotypes . Quit lying .""",DISAGREE,"""you have a tiny chihuahua compared to the huge Great Dane . Same genes .""","""many of the same genes , but not identical genotypes .""",,
2222,592,"""Bigots will be bigots . ...""","""and a quote from jitobear :""",DISAGREE,"""Bigots will be bigots .""","""and a from jitobear""",,
2229,594,"""You have this backwards . The word theory was originally a scientific word , and then it was adapted into common speech to mean a range of things not originally designated to that word . Words like evolve , gravity and congruent have different meanings within the realm of science than they have outside .""","""So it ’ s the scientific community that sets up communication within a society , and then the dumb old common peasants come along and screw it all up ? Hahaha – sorry but I ’ m not convinced .""",DISAGREE,"""You have this backwards . The word theory was originally a scientific word , and then it was adapted into common speech to mean a range of things not originally designated to that word . Words like evolve , gravity and congruent have different meanings within the realm of science than they have outside .""","""So it ’ s the scientific community that sets up communication within a society , and then the dumb old common peasants come along and screw it all up ? Hahaha – sorry but I ’ m not convinced""",,
2231,594,"""You have this backwards . The word theory was originally a scientific word , and then it was adapted into common speech to mean a range of things not originally designated to that word . Words like evolve , gravity and congruent have different meanings within the realm of science than they have outside .""","""So it ’ s the scientific community that sets up communication within a society , and then the dumb old common peasants come along and screw it all up ? Hahaha – sorry but I ’ m not convinced .""",DISAGREE,"""You have this backwards""","""So it ’ s the scientific community that sets up communication within a society ,""",,
2239,596,"""you 're on the right track ; the problem with evolution is that it has no verifiable creator -- the fact is , mutations ( which supposedly add new raw material for selection ) have never shown to add any new structure or even a new part to any existing structure . It 's a sad fact for evos .""","""How many times have you spammed that argument super ? 10 ? 15 ? 20 times ? CB102 : Mutations adding information CB101.2 : Mutations and new features .""",DISAGREE,"""the fact is , mutations ( which supposedly add new raw material for selection ) have never shown to add any new structure or even a new part to any existing structure .""","""CB102 : Mutations adding information CB101.2 : Mutations and new features .""",,
2244,598,"""Every gun that is made , every warship launched , every rocket fired signifies , in the final sense , a theft from those who hunger and are not fed , those who are cold and not clothed .""","""But if we take into account what guns imply then we have :""",DISAGREE,"""Every gun that is made , every warship launched , every rocket fired signifies , in the final sense , a theft from those who hunger and are not fed ,""","""But if we take into account what guns imply then we have :""",,
2256,604,"""`` ( 19 . ) Even if criminals didn & # 8217 ; t have access to guns , they could always use baseball bats or knives to commit crimes instead , because we all know that it & # 8217 ; s just as easy to do a drive-by stabbing or clubbing as it is to do a drive-by shooting .""","""So now we 're embracing the concept that the victims of brutal stabbings are less important than those who 've been shot to death ?""",DISAGREE,"""they could always use baseball bats or knives to commit crimes instead ,""","""now we 're embracing the concept that the victims of brutal stabbings are less important than those who 've been shot to death ?""",,
2275,610,"""I myself am a laymen who sees creationism as a branch of Christian apologetics and one vital aspect of given every man who asks the reason for the hope that is within him .""","""So you admit right from the beginning that creationism is not a scientific endeavor but one of religion . You also falsify your own dichotomy in the next sentence by limiting `` creationism `` to your particular brand of christianity and thus exclude various other myths that are as valid as the mythology of bronze age herdsmen . I do n't know what the rest of your sentence has to do with science so I suppose it is religious . It is therefore meaningless in a discussion of science .""",DISAGREE,"""creationism one vital aspect for the hope""","""it is religious It is therefore meaningless""",,
2279,611,"""Based on threads I 've been reading here , there is a real tendency among some of the pro-choicers to portray pregnancy as a horrible thing that cause women to suffer -- that it is somthing bad or undesirable . - How could the opportunity to bring a life into the world , a wonderful miracle , be so awful by default ? Rather than bring into this peripheral thoughts to the question , such as rights and legal issues ( which are discussed at length here already in other threads ) , I 'd love to hear straightforward relelvant answers to this . I am also already aware that pregnancy can sometimes involve complications or that it can at times cause financial constraints . But I am mainly interested in seeing why there is a default tendency in pro-choice arguments to argue from the standpoint of pregnancy being a bad thing . Any thoughts ?""","""If a woman likes pregnancy , that is her preference . If a woman hates pregnancy , that is also her preference . Simple as that .""",DISAGREE,"""there is a real tendency among some of the pro-choicers to portray pregnancy as a horrible thing How could the opportunity to bring a life into the world , a wonderful miracle , be so awful by default ? Any thoughts ?""","""If a woman likes pregnancy , that is her preference . If a woman hates pregnancy , that is also her preference . Simple as that .""",,
2282,612,"""I will not alter my foundational belief in marriage and family just because some cry for freedom at all costs .""","""I do n't have to say anything here , your post made it sound sick enough . Yes , freedaom at all cost . Is n't that the theory this country was founded by ?""",DISAGREE,"""I will not alter my foundational belief in marriage and family just because some cry for freedom at all costs .""","""I do n't have to say anything here , your post made it sound sick enough . Yes , freedaom at all cost . Is n't that the theory this country was founded by ?""",,
2308,619,"""I am still sympathetic to your first post , and I can understand your frustration from being attacked like here , but I am disturbed when you say `` Science is a joke `` . Did you really mean this ?""","""Yes . Because evolution requires an old earth , supersport has lumped geology into the evil conspiracy . As our best explanations for the formation of the earth appeal to cosmology , that field as well as astronomy fall within the realm of quack science , according to supersport . In fact , every scientific discipline that has any connection whatsoever to evolution must be corrupt ; obviously , chemistry is one of them ( we ca n't make glycogen or DNA without magical , `` atheistic `` polymerization , right ? ) .""",DISAGREE,"""I can understand your frustration from being attacked like here , but I am disturbed when you say `` Science is a joke""","""as well as astronomy fall within the realm of quack science make glycogen or DNA without magical , `` atheistic `` polymerization , right ?""",,
2316,621,"""If marriage is so sacred socially , then heterosexuals who get married should never divorce , and quickie marriages that celebrities have all of the time should n't be allowed ( Not to mention things like Joe Millionaire and the Bachelorette ) . This should n't be a social issue because if it is , it 's allowing the government to make individuals to adhere to a set of moral codes that only a select group believes . The government should approach this as a legal matter , which it is , and allow the legally binding marriage of homosexuals which affords them the same benefits that every other couple who pays 80 bucks to a local courthouse can enjoy . If you have a problem with it socially , then you probably also have a problem with homosexuals in the first place , and thats a problem that you need to deal with on your own . Otherwise , keep your mouth shut and let the government dole out legal unions ( or dare I say `` marriages `` ) to same sex couples and let that be the end of it . If the word marriage bothers you so much because of the religious background of the word , get over it . The word is a useful way to describe the legal binding of any two individuals who may have a different faith than the one where some claim the word 's definition is derived from . Atheist couples get married in courthouses because `` marriage `` in the legal sense has no religious affiliation . So , this being a purely legal matter , there should be no question that any two people can enjoy this legal right .""","""I COMPLETELY AGREE . Waxy""",AGREE,"""there should be no question that any two people can enjoy this legal right .""","""I COMPLETELY AGREE""",,
2323,624,"""I 'm not familiar with the book , so ca n't comment upon it first hand . However http : //www.ncseweb.org/icons/ appears to have a detailed critique of the book and may be of interest to you too . As I say I have n't read the original so can not judge the quality of the link I 'm supplying , so apologies in advance if it grossly misrepresents Mr Well 's case .""","""Ah . Johnathan Wells is an evangilcal YEC who got his education in Biology to `` disprove `` evolution . He rejects science at all levels . I would not take serioiusly anybody associated with the 'discovery institute ' . Mr Wells does have the advantage of having a better education that most of them , but his degree was gotten to promote Young Earth Creationism , and was paid for by Sun Yen Moon . I would say that the review is a bit high level , but accurate .""",AGREE,"""http : //www.ncseweb.org/icons/ can not judge the quality of the link""","""disprove `` evolution promote Young Earth Creationism ,""",,
2336,625,"""Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers , by their families : every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them . And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD . -- Numbers 3:15-16 Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot ; and also , behold , she is with child by whoredom . And Judah said , Bring her forth , and let her be burnt . -- Genesis 38:24 Exodus 21:22 ( RSV ) When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage , and yet no further harm follows , the one responsible shall be fined what the woman ’ s husband demands , paying as much as the judges determine . But thanks for not having anything constructive to say .""","""Oh good grief newbies are all the same on this forum ... Honestly , how many times do you think I 've heard the Exodus and Numbers quote on this forum given my post count and join date ? Do a search on the Exodus one ... easy to see that is wrong . The Numbers quote has nothing to do with who or who is n't valuable to God . That 's like saying counting people over the age of 40 years old means everyone below is not a person .""",DISAGREE,"""When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage , and yet no further harm follows , the one responsible shall be fined what the woman ’ s husband demands , paying as much as the judges determine .""","""how many times do you think I 've heard the Exodus and Numbers quote on this forum given my post count and join date ?""",,
2335,625,"""Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers , by their families : every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them . And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD . -- Numbers 3:15-16 Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot ; and also , behold , she is with child by whoredom . And Judah said , Bring her forth , and let her be burnt . -- Genesis 38:24 Exodus 21:22 ( RSV ) When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage , and yet no further harm follows , the one responsible shall be fined what the woman ’ s husband demands , paying as much as the judges determine . But thanks for not having anything constructive to say .""","""Oh good grief newbies are all the same on this forum ... Honestly , how many times do you think I 've heard the Exodus and Numbers quote on this forum given my post count and join date ? Do a search on the Exodus one ... easy to see that is wrong . The Numbers quote has nothing to do with who or who is n't valuable to God . That 's like saying counting people over the age of 40 years old means everyone below is not a person .""",DISAGREE,"""children of Levi male from a month old and upward Tamar harlot Bring her forth , and let her be burnt injure a pregnant woman miscarriage shall be fined""","""how many times do you think I 've heard the Exodus and Numbers quote has nothing to do with who or who is n't valuable to God That 's like saying everyone below is not a person .""",,
2361,628,"""and ? ? ? ? ? ? ... that did n't answer my question .""","""Wead my weply to wascally ... Species evolve because the sequence and organisation of genes evolves . It does n't take a vast amount of genetic change to evolve one species from another , but it does take genetic change , and molecular geneticists are currently mapping the sort of changes needed to alter rates and timing of gene expression.If you remove the genes from a cell that requires constant gene expression to function , it will cease to function . That 's so obvious it does n't need explicating . I do not see , hoever , how any of this can be used to make an anti-Darwinian case . Biologists already know there 's more to evolution than Darwinian natural selection , hells bells , even Darwin knew that ! There is nothing in theory to prevent autoregulatory gene networks that control their own expression evolving by natural selection . If there is , somehow every biologists seems to have missed it .""",DISAGREE,"""and ? ? ? ? ? ? ... that did n't answer my question .""","""Species evolve because the sequence and organisation of genes evolves . It does n't take a vast amount of genetic change to evolve one species from another , but it does take genetic change , and molecular geneticists are currently mapping the sort of changes needed to alter rates and timing of gene expression""",,
2368,629,"""Not to make thing seam even darker or any thing but Resident bush made it policy to cut aid to countries in Africa who gave out condoms and other birth control Only counters in Africa that teach abstinence get US aid . .""","""Actually , I believe it was a Reagan policy continued by both Bushes .""",DISAGREE,"""Not to make thing seam even darker or any thing but Resident bush made it policy to cut aid to countries in Africa""","""Actually , I believe it was a Reagan policy continued by both Bushes .""",,
2385,631,"""the sexuality gay""","""You mean like they are happy wile having sex ?""",DISAGREE,"""sexuality gay""","""having sex""",,
2390,632,"""How will we use it to feed the hungry ?""","""Ca n't say .""",DISAGREE,"""How will we use it to feed the hungry ?""","""Ca n't say .""",,
2396,633,"""Your answers are ridiculous , ChuzLife , just like all the others . I never mentioned a child trap . You are all liars trying to distort My posts , and hide from the realities of abortion . I said a womb-trapped child . Thats 100 % descriptive . Its a child , in the womb , who is not able to leave . I never said that they are trapped by the vagina . I never suggested that pre-birth children float around and are somehow `` caught `` in a trap . None of your can face up to the Forbidden Truth on abortion .""","""Seer , dude , .. chill . I 'm on your side . I mis-spoke . I do n't follow your `` womb trapped child `` line of reason . It 's not a comment about anything other than the fact that I have n't put much thought into it . Relax a bit and take a deep breath . Try to realize that not all who are sceptical about your posts are your enemies .""",AGREE,"""Your answers are ridiculous , ChuzLife , just like all the others""","""It 's not a comment about anything other than the fact""",,
2397,634,"""Sorry to disappoint you , Occam , but partial-birth aboprtion is not `` extremely rare , `` as you purport .""","""I believe my wording was `` very rare `` . Please do not exaggerate my statements by mis-quoting me . But as you have mentioned it , care to produce some figures on the frequency of partial birth abortions ? Its just you have a habit of making over-inflated statements to support your arguements .""",DISAGREE,"""partial-birth aboprtion is not `` extremely rare , `` as you purport .""","""But as you have mentioned it , care to produce some figures on the frequency of partial birth abortions""",,
2404,635,"""and your point is ?""","""* * I was n't making a 'point ' , just an observation . But since you want a 'point ' , nip back over to `` The Swamp `` , [ that is , 'Internet Infidels ( atheists ) DB ' , and ask Oolon Colophid [ sp. ? ] why he thinks the human appendix makes his 'point ' .""",DISAGREE,"""your point""","""I was n't making a 'point ' ,""",,
2405,636,"""Wow marc . You spent some time thinking about this video .""","""Not all that much , kicked it around in my mind while doing some mindless work this afternoon . A couple of hours to write it - it was fun .""",DISAGREE,"""Wow marc . You spent some time thinking about this video .""","""A couple of hours to write it - it was fun .""",,
2420,639,"""What guy and what post ?""","""Benjamin , post 1 . The guy who , to all appearances , has gone away .""",DISAGREE,"""What guy and what post ?""","""The guy who , to all appearances , has gone away .""",,
2421,640,"""Well , it is all really silly . You 're fighting over an issue that will never be resolved . Believ what you want , because you can never be proven wrong . Let church teach creation and school teach evolution , stop fighting over this , and everyone will be happy .""","""And let 's do away with these stinking debate forums ! So if it 's silly to discuss that , what about brand of trucks ? Would that also be silly ? V10 Gasoline or 6.0 Diesel ? How big a tire can you put on a stock 3/4 ton truck ? See , you 're right . It 's just silly .""",AGREE,"""Well , it is all really silly .""","""And let 's do away with these stinking debate forums""",,
2436,643,"""If evolution was indeed a fact , it would not crumble so easily by a simple falsification .""","""Actually , since Darwin first proposed his theories , the have not been falsified . Your assumptions and unsupported claims certainly do n't do so .""",DISAGREE,"""evolution was indeed a fact , it would not crumble so easily by a simple falsification""","""Your assumptions and unsupported claims certainly do n't do so""",,
2447,646,"""Let 's not go into what bigotry means , I think we all get your point anyway .""","""I know , Chloe 's misuse of the word strikes again .""",AGREE,"""Let 's not go into what bigotry means , I think we all get your point anyway .""","""I know , Chloe 's misuse of the word strikes again .""",,
2448,646,"""Let 's not go into what bigotry means , I think we all get your point anyway .""","""I know , Chloe 's misuse of the word strikes again .""",AGREE,"""Let 's not go into , we all get your point""","""I know , misuse of the word""",,
2457,649,"""... [ Feathers ] on either a predatory of herbivore dino , it would make them more vulnerable when in combat . [ sic ]""","""With what ? The Theropod dinosaurs were the size of a large bird , were excelent runners and probably ate insects . The first birds , as far as we can tell from the fossil evidence , were gliders so probably spent time in the trees . Small , agile , gliding dinosaurs could exploit an previously unoccupied niche .""",DISAGREE,"""either a predatory of herbivore dino , it would make them more vulnerable when in combat . [""","""The first birds , as far as we can tell from the fossil evidence , were gliders so probably spent time in the trees .""",,
2465,651,"""The same fossil tables here , are the same in Russia , Israel .... and are Sumatra .""","""Really ? Please cite the scientific papers that report fossils of Marella , Yohoia , Naraoia , Waptia , Canadaspis , Pikaia , Opabinia , Anomalocaris , Hallucigenia , and Odontogriphus being found in Russia , Israel or Sumatra .""",DISAGREE,"""same fossil tables here""","""Please cite the scientific papers that report fossils of Marella , Yohoia , Naraoia , Waptia , Canadaspis , Pikaia , Opabinia , Anomalocaris , Hallucigenia , and Odontogriphus being found in Russia , Israel or Sumatra .""",,
2478,653,"""Like the crazy idea the Earth goes around the Sun .""","""well if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""",DISAGREE,"""Like the crazy idea""","""its time for apocalypse""",,
2485,654,"""Anyway , health care is not a civil right""","""SO an inalienable right put forth by our founding fathers is thus not true ? Is the concept of life within only the context of birth ? Maintaining health is a matter of civil rights of the most dire and personal to us all . Until you explain to me why I have no reason to even consider you point valid .""",DISAGREE,"""Anyway , health care is not a civil right""","""SO an inalienable right put forth by our founding fathers is thus not true ?""",,
2497,656,"""and that creation scientists are liars .""","""No problem . Pick your creation `` scientist `` and I 'll show you how they are a liar .""",AGREE,"""creation scientists are liars .""","""Pick your creation `` scientist `` and I 'll show you how they are a liar .""",,
2522,661,"""I have seen a guy smoke up since 13 and it takes me 4 tries for him to actually understand a simple sentence I tell him .""","""He was probably an XXXXX to begin with then .""",AGREE,"""smoke up since 13 to actually understand a simple sentence""","""probably an XXXXX to begin with""",,
2536,665,"""Life has never been made in the laboratory .""","""That 's not evolution . Life has evolved in the lab , many times .""",DISAGREE,"""has never been made in the""","""not evolution has evolved in the lab""",,
2557,677,"""Do we want America to be known as an abortion nation ? America should ban abortion , that way we can set a good example for other countries so that they may follow our good example . If people die because of black market abortions than , even though I am a Catholic , I say that they deserve it after what they did to a poor child .""","""So you would rather that a grown woman , a mother even , died in pain rather than an 8 week old foetus which can not feel pain ?""",DISAGREE,"""Do we want America to be known as an abortion nation ?""","""So you would rather that a grown woman , a mother even , died in pain rather than an 8 week old foetus which can not feel pain ?""",,
2594,691,"""False alarm : General Misunderstanding is still calling the shots ! There 's no such thing as 'Natural and undirected ' . Drop a rock and tell me how 'undirected ' the results are for you .""","""Tell me who directed it .""",DISAGREE,"""Drop a rock and tell me how 'undirected ' the results are for you .""","""Tell me who directed it .""",,
2596,692,"""Without life itself , quality is a non-issue .""","""Exactly , you have contradicted yourself and shown that the `` sanctity `` of life is a necessary foundation for the `` quality of life ``""",DISAGREE,"""Without life itself , quality is a non-issue .""","""Exactly , you have contradicted yourself and shown that the `` sanctity `` of life is a necessary foundation for the `` quality of life ``""",,
2605,694,"""I assert that reproduction is not an absolute requirement of life""","""In your first post . If you are to qualify that by stating I assert that reproduction is not an absolute requirement of life over the ontogeny of an individual then of course reproduction is not essential character of life .""",DISAGREE,"""I assert that reproduction is not an absolute requirement of life""","""In your first post . If you are to qualify that by stating I assert that reproduction""",,
2619,696,"""Why is it ok for your side to determine what is right for society but when I offer my vote/opinion , I am imposing something evil on you ?""","""Let me explain this to you . You want to stop abortions for someone else . You want to take a womans right to choose away . Where as Jito supporting a womans right to choose does not impose upon your life in any way . You want to stop me from being able to marry this does not effect your life in any way yet has a devastationg effect on my life . The left supports rights while your side want to limit the rights of others . You want to stop me from being able to marry because you have a religious belief against it even though I may have a religious belief that supports it . Therefore you are imposing your religious and moral views on me when I do not share those beliefs .""",DISAGREE,"""I am imposing something evil on you ?""","""You want to take a womans right to choose away""",,
2616,696,"""Why is it ok for your side to determine what is right for society but when I offer my vote/opinion , I am imposing something evil on you ?""","""Let me explain this to you . You want to stop abortions for someone else . You want to take a womans right to choose away . Where as Jito supporting a womans right to choose does not impose upon your life in any way . You want to stop me from being able to marry this does not effect your life in any way yet has a devastationg effect on my life . The left supports rights while your side want to limit the rights of others . You want to stop me from being able to marry because you have a religious belief against it even though I may have a religious belief that supports it . Therefore you are imposing your religious and moral views on me when I do not share those beliefs .""",DISAGREE,"""your side to determine what is right offer my vote/opinion""","""stop abortions for someone else want to limit the rights of others""",,
2639,700,"""Can anyone make a rational argument as to why executing a criminal who was 18 years old when committing the crime is not `` cruel and unusual punishment , `` but executing a criminal who was less than 18 at the time of the crime would be cruel and unusual ? Put another way , can anyone explain why it is constitutional to execute a person who was 18 years old when they committed the crime , but it is unconstitutional to execute a person who was under 18 when they committed the crime ? Participants in this discussion should assume that the death penalty , in general , is constitutional . This has been the case from the beginning of our Republic , and has been reaffirmed multiple times . In other words , it is not an appropriate argument to try and argue that the death penalty , in general , is unconstitutional . That has neither been the case through our history , and is not the current state of the law . * Note : I am speaking within the context of the United States , and its Constitution .""","""I think that we 've got to draw a line at some point , to demarcate between adult and child . Where ever we do draw it , it will seem , in some situations to be arbitrary . If we made it 20 , the question would be why 20 year olds and not 19 . Through the years society has determined that by 18 people should have attained enough life experience to form intent and to comprehend that their actions have consequences ( at least as it applies to the death penalty , they can be tried as adults w/o death ) . We do n't execute people who ca n't comprehend the nature of their crimes and society says that , under 18 you ca n't fully comprehend criminal actions .""",DISAGREE,"""Can anyone make a rational argument as to why executing a criminal who was 18 years old when committing the crime is not `` cruel and unusual punishment""","""I think that we 've got to draw a line at some point , to demarcate between adult and child .""",,
2648,701,"""My moral compass does not care if genesis is literally true or not . Can anyone explain why it should ?""","""Well , if Genesis was in fact true , then we would have to assume that God is real and the Bible more or less explains what he wants , right ? And if there is someone `` up there `` who will damn you to eternal torment if you do n't do what he wants ( which is one interpretation of the Bible ) than that might effect the way you act . I realize that that is n't exactly the same as changing your moral compass , but history has demonstrated that most people 's moral will stretch to accomodate pressing needs , and I think an actual vengeful diety would qualify .""",DISAGREE,"""My moral compass does not care if genesis is literally true or not . Can anyone explain why it should ?""","""Well , if Genesis was in fact true , then we would have to assume that God is real and the Bible more or less explains what he wants , right ? And if there is someone `` up there `` who will damn you to eternal torment if you do n't do what he wants ( which is one interpretation of the Bible ) than that might effect the way you act .""",,
2657,703,"""Manslaughter involves a direct action that causes an unintentional death . Miscarriage is involuntary ; besides the person suffering a miscarriage might well want to keep the baby .""","""Does n't that explain why manslaughter is like miscarriage , rather than why it is different ? And Clerisian , you did n't seem to be arguing that the two were distinct , rather you appeared to say that pro-lifers did support charging mothers who miscarried with manslaughter ( where the mother 's actions , say , drinking heavily , were the cause of death ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Manslaughter involves a direct action that causes an unintentional death .""","""Does n't that explain why manslaughter is like miscarriage , rather than why it is different ?""",,
2666,704,"""may there never be a 34th !""","""Agreed !""",AGREE,"""may there never be a 34th !""","""Agreed""",,
2677,706,"""And the reason they say that -- one of them -- is that NS on the level of the population is random .... which makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever . With a constantly changing environment it is so obvious to me that different groups of animals would do better in different environments . This is where competition really happens .""","""He only understands natural selection when he belives that it goes against what is accepted by scientists .""",DISAGREE,"""With a constantly changing environment it is so obvious to me that different groups of animals would do better in different environments .""","""He only understands natural selection when he belives that it goes against what is accepted by scientists .""",,
2698,712,"""Can you imagine what the U.S. population would be without abortion ? Who will take care of all these children when the potential parent can not ?""","""The idea of abortion as population control is absurd , especially forced abortions as someone mentioned a few posts ago . Anyone who has read a biology book knows the world has methods of population control on its own , we do n't need to be doing stuff like that ourselves .""",DISAGREE,"""Can you imagine what the U.S. population would be without abortion ?""","""Anyone who has read a biology book knows the world has methods of population control on its own , we do n't need to be doing stuff like that ourselves .""",,
2705,714,"""You should really think about what you say before you say it . I have heard this before and its garbish , I have been around and owned guns my whole life and I have never , not even once , had the thought of getting a gun just because someone # # # # # # me off . I would never use a gun on a person unless that person were a viable threat to my life , such as coming at me with a knife for example .""","""You need to read what people say more thoroughly , and think about it before you respond . When he said `` can `` ( and there are not many simpler words than that ! ) It did n't mean `` will `` , `` must `` , or `` shall `` be more aggressive . It has been shown that in some cases it `` CAN `` happen . It may not have happened with you . It still might , we do n't know . We might even say that it is not likely to happen , but we ca n't say that it wo n't , because sometimes some people do behave more aggressively when they have a gun .""",DISAGREE,"""I would never use a gun on a person unless that person were a viable threat to my life , such as coming at me with a knife for example .""","""We might even say that it is not likely to happen , but we ca n't say that it wo n't , because sometimes some people do behave more aggressively when they have a gun .""",,
2737,725,"""I agree ... just what we need . The court will not hear the case so more guns on the street""","""The criminals in DC already have their guns . All striking down DC 's handgun ban will do is let the law abiding be able to better defend themselves and be armed for a change .""",DISAGREE,"""I agree ... just what we need""","""All striking down DC 's handgun ban will do is let the law abiding be able to better defend themselves and be armed for a change .""",,
2744,727,"""Gay marriage will change the institution .""","""So what ? It 's not like institutions in this country have n't been changed before , including the supposed intitution of marriage ! Guess what ? It 's called progress , get used to it .""",DISAGREE,"""Gay marriage will change the institution .""","""It 's not like institutions in this country have n't been changed before , It 's called progress , get used to it .""",,
2754,736,"""I 've cited several pieces of evidence that prove you wrong . You just wish to ignore them as you do everything that contridicts your belief .""","""You have n't proven anything . All you have done is spew your same old drivel which ignores what I actually say and reinterprets it to mean what you want it to say . You must corrupt what I say since you ca n't accept the truth of my beliefs and win your fallacious argument .""",DISAGREE,"""cited several pieces of evidence that prove you wrong""","""your same old drivel which ignores what I actually say and""",,
2756,737,"""But abiogenesis , and so much more of `` science `` attempts to stop religion - attempts to alter the worldview of students . In the Arthur Jones copy/paste in my first post , did you notice how he said that his professor , Otto Lowenstien , `` made a point of telling me that no creationist would be allowed to do research in his department ! ``""","""I believe this is wrong . But this is a private company , and if they want to discriminate based on religion , that 's fine , just as a church may outlaw atheists . Do I agree with it ? No . But does it have to do with our debate ? No . This is about the science classroom . Also , again abiogenesis is a hypothesis , the same level as ID .""",DISAGREE,"""creationist would be allowed to do research in his department""","""discriminate based on religion , that 's fine , just as a church may outlaw atheists""",,
2770,739,"""4 ) Yes , there are all kinds of long winded rants about all the details of how the ID proponents were being treated perfectly fair . It 's up to anyone who actually watched the movie to decide if these people just were n't intelligent enough to make the grade , while ALL the Ward Churchill 's of the academic world seldom seem to have any problems .""","""Notice that nowhere here do you address the claims and evidence -- which the movie apparently lacks -- about the assertions of `` the expelled. `` Trying to deflect attention from your inability to respond substantively wo n't fly with us ; these guys are fudging the stories and sharing only selected pieces in a specific attempt to hide what really happened . For what it 's worth , I feel a hell of a lot more vulnerable as an atheist in my profession and location than IDers should feel in research and teaching academia .""",DISAGREE,"""all kinds of long winded rants treated perfectly fair""","""nowhere here do you address the claims and evidence""",,
2795,743,"""Its the reading comprehension thing kicking in . ... [ according to ATF special agent William Newell , about 17 percent of guns associated with crime in Mexico came from the United States . ... 5th paragraph""","""Except that that would be the author 's words , not a direct quote . Notice the absence of quotation marks ? Special Agent Newell never said `` 17 % came from the US `` . The author has as much trouble with the stats as you . 17 % of the total have been traced to the US . We do n't know the percentage of the total that did indeed come from the US but is untraced or untraceable . See the difference ?""",DISAGREE,"""according to ATF special agent William Newell , about 17 percent of guns associated with crime in Mexico came from the United States .""","""Special Agent Newell never said `` 17 % came from the US `` . The author has as much trouble with the stats as you .""",,
2800,744,"""The pistol and hunting rifle is not enough . Please read the 2nd Amendment . It does not mention hunting as a reason for firearm owership or a reason for firearm ownership . What the 2nd Amendment refers to is modern military weapons . So , yes , we 'need ' military weapons . The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to defend democracy from enemies of democracy who are armed with modern military weapons . The 2nd Amendment does not mean I fight the enemies of democracy with hunting guns . It means I fight back with the same guns they will probably be shooting at ME with .""","""Well when the second amendment was written , `` modern military weapons `` were black powder rifles . Feel free to defend yourself with black powder rifles . In addition , what are the non-recreational benefits of guns . In other words , what would we lose by taking away automatic guns ( since I know your manly self could never part with every weapon you own . )""",DISAGREE,"""The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to defend democracy from enemies of democracy who are armed with modern military weapons . I fight the enemies of democracy with hunting guns .""","""modern military weapons `` were black powder rifles . In addition , what are the non-recreational benefits of guns . In other words""",,
2803,744,"""The pistol and hunting rifle is not enough . Please read the 2nd Amendment . It does not mention hunting as a reason for firearm owership or a reason for firearm ownership . What the 2nd Amendment refers to is modern military weapons . So , yes , we 'need ' military weapons . The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to defend democracy from enemies of democracy who are armed with modern military weapons . The 2nd Amendment does not mean I fight the enemies of democracy with hunting guns . It means I fight back with the same guns they will probably be shooting at ME with .""","""Well when the second amendment was written , `` modern military weapons `` were black powder rifles . Feel free to defend yourself with black powder rifles . In addition , what are the non-recreational benefits of guns . In other words , what would we lose by taking away automatic guns ( since I know your manly self could never part with every weapon you own . )""",DISAGREE,"""What the 2nd Amendment refers to is modern military weapons . So , yes , we 'need ' military weapons .""","""Well when the second amendment was written , `` modern military weapons `` were black powder rifles . Feel free to defend yourself with black powder rifles .""",,
2810,745,"""Even if you want to lump any and all divine intervention under `` creationism `` , disproving evolution would not prove creationism . That 's called a `` false dichotomy `` .""","""how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention not an argument for divine intervention ?""",DISAGREE,"""disproving evolution would not prove creationism""","""how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention not an argument for divine intervention ?""",,
2812,745,"""Even if you want to lump any and all divine intervention under `` creationism `` , disproving evolution would not prove creationism . That 's called a `` false dichotomy `` .""","""how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention not an argument for divine intervention ?""",DISAGREE,"""Even if you want to lump any and all divine intervention under `` creationism `` , disproving evolution would not prove creationism . That 's called a `` false dichotomy `` .""","""how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention not an argument for divine intervention ?""",,
2831,747,"""The REAL survival of the fittest happens between different populations of animals .""","""That is not the only `` REAL `` evolution . It does occur within a population .""",DISAGREE,"""The REAL survival of the fittest happens between different populations of animals .""","""That is not the only `` REAL `` evolution . It does occur within a population .""",,
2850,749,"""I 'll be nice ... Out of context sermon ? How about a paraphrased question ... Know the differance ? Forgive me for not having the cut and paste abilities that you have ... Dont be one of those people who gets all huffy puffy over the question . I am all for being armed ... I AM armed ... I have years of tatical weapons training . You should also know ... I have also been a Christian for 26 years ... I am more likely to agree with you , then disagree with you ... But if its an `` out of context sermon `` you want ... let me put down my Bible ... Ill give you a sermon .""","""Sure let me have your sermon/propaganda of misinformation since it does n't match the context of the Scriptures . propaganda n : information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause . mis·in·form Pronunciation Key ( msn-fôrm ) tr.v . mis·in·formed , mis·in·form·ing , mis·in·forms To provide with incorrect information . con·text Pronunciation Key ( kntkst ) n. 1 . The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular word or passage and determines its meaning . 2 . The circumstances in which an event occurs ; a setting . And since your `` experience `` does not guarantee you to be an expert I will stick to the context which matches what I have said . Job 32 : 4 And Elihu had waited for Job with words , because they were older than he in days . 5 When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of the three men , then his anger burned . 6 And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said , I am young , and you are very aged ; so I held back and was afraid to make my knowledge known to you . 7 I said , Days will speak , and many years will make wisdom known . 8 But it is a spirit in man giving them perception , even the breath of the Almighty . 9 It is not the great that are wise , nor the aged who perceive justice ; 10 so then I say , Listen to me ; I will declare my knowledge , I also .""",DISAGREE,"""I AM armed ... I have years of tatical weapons training . You should also know ... I have also been a Christian for 26 years""","""Sure let me have your sermon/propaganda of misinformation since it does n't match the context of the Scriptures . propaganda""",,
2854,750,"""... so where does cancer come from ? Is n't that 'cells producing something other than what they are ' ?""","""No , think about what you just said . A cancer cell does n't mutate , it attacks healthy cells and causes the destruction of healthy tissue . Kinda like liberals in a healthy society - they are the free radicals of the body politic , huh ... go figure .""",DISAGREE,""" so where does cancer come from ? Is n't that 'cells producing something other than what they are ' ?""","""A cancer cell does n't mutate , it attacks healthy cells and causes the destruction of healthy tissue .""",,
2861,751,"""Why did n't God put a picture of a chair on a deer 's butt ?""","""Because deer do n't live in Africa .""",DISAGREE,"""God put a picture of a chair on a deer 's""","""deer do n't live in Africa""",,
2858,751,"""Why did n't God put a picture of a chair on a deer 's butt ?""","""Because deer do n't live in Africa .""",DISAGREE,"""Why did n't God put a picture of a chair on a deer 's butt ?""","""Because deer do n't live in Africa .""",,
2870,754,"""Another way : If we saw a man 's print for 100 million years , how can a mere 40 or 50 years clear up the controversy and produce the real dinosaur prints we are convinced that they are ?""","""No one saw a man 's track for 100 million years . You told me that you had read the material at the links . Did you lie or is it that you did n't understand any of it ? Some of the best `` man tracks `` were found by removing the soil on top of the slab . Some of the tracks were only the shallow impression of the middle part of the tridactyl print . Mr. Carl Baugh claimed these were human tracks . He convinced John Morris of the ICR . After these tracks had been exposed for about 10 years , Glen Kuban invited John Morris back to look again . In some of those tracks the softer infill has since eroded to show clearly the tridactyl nature of the tracks . In others , the infill has changed color by being exposed to the river water . The outline of the entire track is vivible in the stone . John Morris now agrees that there is no track in the river that was made by a human . I am amazed that you went to visit this river and did n't go inside the Park Headquarters . They have a very nice display that explains the history . Also there are signs at various points of access to the river with signs with information . How is it that you paid attention to none of it . But you said in your original post , `` The heel marks are clear as are the arches and in many instances , the toes. `` That just is n't true . You did n't see that in the river . Maybe you stopped at Mr. Carl Baugh 's `` Creation Evidence Museum `` and saw his carved footprint and his cast of a Pleurocoelus print in which he imagines he sees a human track . He gives a lovely ad hoc explanation about how the person slipped and the toes are turned under . I think that maybe you forgot your hat on the day you went to Glen Rose . It 's hot in Texas and you were having delusions if you saw what you claim in the river .""",DISAGREE,"""If we saw a man 's print 40 or 50 years clear up the controversy""","""100 million years removing the soil on top of the slab""",,
2895,766,"""It seems a number of Christians believe also in evolution . To those of you out there who believe in both I 'd like to know a few things ... a ) Did we evolve a soul ? b ) Why did Jesus come to save us ? ( when did the first sin happen ? )""","""Well , I 'm a Christian who believes that evolution is a fact . a ) my personal view is that all sentient beings have souls , and that souls are intricately linked with mental awareness/cognisance ( Dolphins , monkeys , apes , octopuses , parrots , etc. ) . So , I 'd say yes we evolved it ( I think god `` attaches `` it to us when our minds develop ) , and it occured with the dawn of sentience . b ) The `` first sin `` is something that has always existed ever since death existed . I do n't view it as a particular event ( Adam and Eve myth is a sort of metaphor or way of talking about it ) . Jesus came to take that sin away , allowing us to overcome death in eternity .""",DISAGREE,"""seems a number of Christians believe also in evolution""","""I 'm a Christian who believes that evolution is a fact""",,
2915,769,"""[ They shot ] another guy because he was black .""","""And religious folk in the south used the Bible to justify enslavement of thousands or millions of blacks , and also to justify their treating blacks as mere property . I suppose ( but am not familiar enough with all of the details to know for sure ) that some even used the Bible to justify linching blacks .""",DISAGREE,"""[ They shot ] another guy because he was black .""","""And religious folk in the south used the Bible to justify enslavement of thousands or millions of blacks""",,
2921,770,"""Why not raise the marginal cost of gun crimes substantially ? Why not make possession of an unregistered firearm , whether one brandishes it or not , a sentence punishable by life in prison ?""","""Because that would violate the 8th Amendment 's provision outlawing excessive fines , and cruel and unusual punishment .""",DISAGREE,"""Why not raise the marginal cost of gun crimes substantially ? Why not make possession of an unregistered firearm ,""","""Because that would violate the 8th Amendment 's provision outlawing excessive fines""",,
2920,770,"""Why not raise the marginal cost of gun crimes substantially ? Why not make possession of an unregistered firearm , whether one brandishes it or not , a sentence punishable by life in prison ?""","""Because that would violate the 8th Amendment 's provision outlawing excessive fines , and cruel and unusual punishment .""",DISAGREE,"""Why not raise the marginal cost of gun crimes substantially ?""","""Because that would violate the 8th Amendment 's provision outlawing excessive fines , and cruel and unusual punishment .""",,
2926,771,"""There 's also the fact that the police have better things to do than penalize people for something that is n't a crime or a threat to anyone 's safety . Who should law enforcement be targeting more , a dangerous gang with ties to the mexican mafia , or a single mom who forgot about putting her pistol in the safe before going to the grocery store ? Police resources are limited as is . I do n't see why we should be squandering what resources we have , going after people for technical violations rather than true crimes that victimize anyone and everyone . Sex offenders who rape and kill children are required to be photographed and fingerprinted . Why are you in favor of people exercising a constitutional right , being treated in the exact same way ? I ca n't see any type of measurable affect photographing and fingerprinting gun owners would have on fighting crime . We know that criminals wo n't submit to registration , they 're not permitted to own or possess guns under any circumstances , etc . To me this seems more about the regulation of a constitutional right and the harassment of honest gun owners than anything else .""","""Government employees are also expected to be fingerprinted but I do n't think any reasonable person would think that is treating them like criminals . In the early period of America most gun owners were required to be government employees by law- they were required to enroll in the militia and received pay for doing so .""",DISAGREE,"""There 's also the fact that the police have better things to do than penalize people for something that is n't a crime or a threat to anyone 's safety .""","""Government employees are also expected to be fingerprinted but I do n't think any reasonable person would think that is treating them like criminals .""",,
2925,771,"""There 's also the fact that the police have better things to do than penalize people for something that is n't a crime or a threat to anyone 's safety . Who should law enforcement be targeting more , a dangerous gang with ties to the mexican mafia , or a single mom who forgot about putting her pistol in the safe before going to the grocery store ? Police resources are limited as is . I do n't see why we should be squandering what resources we have , going after people for technical violations rather than true crimes that victimize anyone and everyone . Sex offenders who rape and kill children are required to be photographed and fingerprinted . Why are you in favor of people exercising a constitutional right , being treated in the exact same way ? I ca n't see any type of measurable affect photographing and fingerprinting gun owners would have on fighting crime . We know that criminals wo n't submit to registration , they 're not permitted to own or possess guns under any circumstances , etc . To me this seems more about the regulation of a constitutional right and the harassment of honest gun owners than anything else .""","""Government employees are also expected to be fingerprinted but I do n't think any reasonable person would think that is treating them like criminals . In the early period of America most gun owners were required to be government employees by law- they were required to enroll in the militia and received pay for doing so .""",DISAGREE,"""fingerprinting gun owners""","""Government employees are also expected to be fingerprinted but I do n't think any reasonable person would think that is treating them like criminals .""",,
2934,773,"""Hi all , I decided to start a thread to see what folks had to say about fossilization . I 'll start by saying that , as I understand it , death is certain and fossilization of the remains is highly uncommon . An animal or plant dies and immediately scavengers , animals plants and bacteria , start the process of reclaiming materials from the carcass . There is very little chance of any part of the organism to be left to fossilize . Unless the carcass was relatively quickly protected from scavenger organisms , there is hardly any chance it will form a fossil . So , maybe most fossils we see are the result of a tragic , untimely death . Is this evidence for the flood ?""","""Well by the Flood , I assume you are refering to the description given in Genesis ? Fossils we find today have been attributed to a remarkable variety of environmental settings that allowed them to be preserved . Also , you seem to be refering to the preservation of large animals such as terrestrial vertebrates , which are far rarer than fossils of marine organisms with calcarous skeletons . In that regard , some types of rock are basically one huge fossil as most of their composition is derived from dead animal material . There are just so many different types in which creatures are preserved it is not possible to consider the events within the context of a word like `` tragic `` Unusual ? sometimes . In some cases the word inevitable is the most apt . Also , there are quite a few numbers of ways in which animals have been preserved without the direct involvement of water/sedimentation- terrestrial invertebrates trapped in amber , tarpit `` traps `` like those of the famous Rancho la Brea with remarkable preservations of ice-age mammal fauna and mummified animals from desert environments ( off the top of my head ) . Plus then you have a whole set of fossils preserved in water conditions where there has been very slow , low energy deposition of sediments , like black shales and the Lithographic limestones of Solnhofen .""",DISAGREE,"""little chance fossilize Unless quickly protected Is this evidence for the flood ?""","""we find today have been attributed to a remarkable variety of environmental settings that allowed them to be preserved""",,
2938,774,"""Oh ... so humans all must have the same bone structure ? Kind of like pigmies and Kenyans look so similar . I 'll prove to you on a future post how Neandertals developed their traits -- including their bone structures through a nonrandom mechanism .""","""Prove something besides your ignorance ? Homo-erectus and Neandertals differ in cranium size , bone size , bone structure , number of bones as well as the length and width of individual bones . I can see why people are laughing at you""",DISAGREE,"""so humans all must have the same bone structure ? Kind of like pigmies and Kenyans look so similar . I 'll prove to you on a future post how Neandertals developed their traits""","""Homo-erectus and Neandertals differ in cranium size , bone size , bone structure , number of bones as well as the length and width of individual bones .""",,
2940,775,"""http : //www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155326,00.html She is the guardian of the state ..... this is going over the line now .""","""HAPPY BIRTHDAY""",AGREE,"""http : //www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155326,00.html She is the guardian of the state ..... this is going over the line now .""","""HAPPY BIRTHDAY""",,
2956,778,"""But viability outside another human being is a clearly distinct difference between a zygote and a new-born baby .""","""There 's a distinct difference ... so what ? No baby at any age can live outside the womb . It still needs care and attention like any other . This difference in age does n't mean anything .""",DISAGREE,"""viability outside another human being is a clearly distinct difference between a zygote and a new-born baby .""","""There 's a distinct difference so what ?""",,
2966,780,"""I remember staying at my grandfather 's house during the summers as a child . After a little exploration , I found the rifle he kept down in the basement and the rifle and ammunition that was in one of the bedrooms on the ground floor .""","""Well obviously you did n't shoot yourself or somebody else .""",DISAGREE,"""After a little exploration , I found the rifle he kept down in the basement and the rifle and ammunition that was in one of the bedrooms on the ground floor .""","""Well obviously you did n't shoot yourself or somebody else .""",,
2971,781,"""It is the secular museums that are not willing to admit their commitment , by faith , to an unproven story of origins . Yet their words betray them . For instance , the Museum of the Earth ’ s Guide for Museum Docents repeats the mantra :  “ Questions or debates about evolutionary mechanisms have nothing to do with our confidence in whether evolution occurred. ”""","""What ?""",DISAGREE,"""It is the secular museums that are not willing to admit their commitment , by faith , to an unproven story of origins .""","""What ?""",,
2984,783,"""There will be more guns on the street whether the Court hears the case or not or regardless of how the Court might rule : gun laws don ’ t effect criminals .""","""If guns laws do n't affect criminals then how do you explain the low rates of criminal gun use in nations like the UK ?""",DISAGREE,"""gun laws don ’ t effect criminals .""","""then how do you explain the low rates of criminal gun use in nations like the UK ?""",,
2986,784,"""Shut up habit . You really and truly have absolutely nothing to say . As my mother used to tell me when I was 5 , you 're talking privelages have been revoked .""","""1 ) It 's Habbit . You could at least take 5 seconds to get my name right . 2 ) Considering you and your friends are the ones complaining , not debating ? 3 ) Actually , none of my posting privileges have my revoked . Try again .""",DISAGREE,"""you 're talking privelages have been revoked""","""Actually , none of my posting privileges have my revoked . Try again""",,
3000,793,"""The burden of a pregnancy is the woman 's . It should be left up to her and her doctor to decide what is best for her .""","""I 'm sorry but the baby is a part of both of them . Should it be that the mother decides to keep the baby and the father want 's her to terminate the state will still come chasing for child support . Why the father did n't get a say on if the baby was born or not so why should he have to pay child supportbecause the law says so .""",DISAGREE,"""burden of a pregnancy is the woman 's should be left up to her and her doctor to decide""","""sorry the baby is a part of both of them support why should he have to pay child the law says so .""",,
3005,794,"""You can make the statement 'Based on the current available evidence , I do not believe in the existance of any god/gods . '""","""Is that not agnostic ? You leave yourself open to change if evidence dictates it . Sorry if this is just turning into word games .""",DISAGREE,"""You can make the statement on the current available evidence , I do not believe in the existance of any god/gods""","""Is that not agnostic ? You leave yourself open to change Sorry if this is just turning into word games""",,
3007,795,"""Naturally , one can only observe what exists in the present .""","""And I just spent all that money on a new camera . Pity .""",DISAGREE,"""Naturally , one can only observe what exists in the present .""","""And I just spent all that money on a new camera .""",,
3049,803,"""We are arguing whether ID is a science , and we both seem to agree that it is n't , yet you justify allowing it into the science curriculum because the curriculum is already messed up so we should add more messed up stuff from the other side to balance it out ? Sorry , that does n't work .""","""It works , because we live in a messed up world . In the US , restricting ideas is what does n't work .""",DISAGREE,"""We are arguing whether ID is a science , and we both seem to agree that it is n't""","""It works , because we live in a messed up world""",,
3046,803,"""We are arguing whether ID is a science , and we both seem to agree that it is n't , yet you justify allowing it into the science curriculum because the curriculum is already messed up so we should add more messed up stuff from the other side to balance it out ? Sorry , that does n't work .""","""It works , because we live in a messed up world . In the US , restricting ideas is what does n't work .""",DISAGREE,"""Sorry , that does n't work""","""In the US , restricting ideas is what does n't work .""",,
3067,807,"""And this study is just on tadpoles . Does anyone think that this is not a world-wide , creation-wide phenomenon ? Of course it is . Every creature is a product of their environment . Traits are formed from the beginning of conception -- all the way throughout life . Over time , this may give the illusion of `` evolution `` in the fossil record .""","""Fossils show inherited change . Adaptation does not .""",DISAGREE,"""Over time , this may give the of `` `` in the fossil record .""","""Fossils show change . does not .""",,
3100,812,"""I think Maximus owes us an apology . http : //www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9053416/""","""Well , it is interesting to not that two of the five researchers have ties to the abortion industry . One of them runs an abortion clinic ; another formerly served as an attorney for NARAL . Neither researcher disclosed this information to JAMA . This is an incidence of researcher bias entering into the scientific method . And your belief in this article takes faith . Steve Calvin August 30 , 2005 In the Minneapolis Star-Tribune Last week 's article on fetal pain in the Journal of the American Medical Association proves the desperation of the defenders of unrestricted abortion . The article reviews medical literature and concludes that fetuses are unlikely to feel pain prior to 30 weeks gestation . The authors were clearly motivated to write what I view as a medical fantasy to counter proposed federal legislation that would limit abortion in the second trimester . The legislation would require informing women considering abortion that fetuses beyond 20 weeks feel pain and would require anesthesia for the fetus . Twenty-five years of delivering babies and a specialization in high-risk obstetrics provide me some experience to refute the claim that fetuses feel no pain until 30 weeks . Many of the tiny babies that I deliver , some as small as 1 pound at 23 weeks , have required surgery during their difficult neonatal battle for life . All of them receive anesthesia . Before the 1970s , many newborns , both term and preterm , were operated on without anesthesia in the mistaken belief that they could not feel pain . They certainly could n't tell anyone about their discomfort . With more sophisticated monitoring it became clear that blood pressure and pulse rose dramatically during the trauma of surgery . Subsequently , a subspecialty of pediatric anesthesia developed . Those who deny fetal pain claim that hormonal and withdrawal responses to invasive procedures are mere reflexes and are no evidence of pain . Recently , I performed an amniocentesis on a patient at 21 weeks gestation because of a possible infection . On ultrasound , the fetus pulled away from the needle when it grazed her arm . It is clear to me that this fetus felt discomfort , and that she would feel horrible pain if she were dismembered in the exercise of an unjust constitutional right . The medical literature duel over abortion has been quite one-sided since most of the medical hierarchy is ardently pro-abortion . There are , however , courageous exceptions . The most important medical study on abortion this year got absolutely no media coverage . A French study in the April 2005 British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology convincingly showed that a previous abortion increased the risk of subsequent delivery at 22 to 27 weeks by 70 percent . Premature birth has heavy personal and societal costs , yet the alarm over the increasing rate of prematurity ignores the abortion connection . The fight over requirements for informed consent prior to abortion continues because abortion defenders refuse to accept any restriction on this manufactured constitutional right to exercise prenatal lethal violence . Their blind orthodoxy requires denial of fetal pain and willful ignorance of the significant long-term consequences of abortion . Steve Calvin is a Minneapolis physician .""",AGREE,"""I think Maximus owes us an apology .""","""the mistaken belief that they could not feel pain""",,
3117,815,"""Originally posted by DarKnight `` in for a penny , in for a pound `` mentality would mean gun rampages would be worse because instead of using their .38 `` weekend fun `` pistols they 'll switch to automatic assault weapons ( which , imported illegally from the middle east/asia , kalashnikov rifles are CHEAPER then domestic US pistols ) .""","""Oh ! Did you mean something like this in gun free France : http : //www.guardian.co.uk/internatio ... ews+-+guardian Those weapons were cheap and from an eastern block country . Machine guns are for sissy American felons . Real felons in gun free France use anti-tank weapons .""",DISAGREE,"""mentality would mean gun rampages would be worse because instead of using their .38""","""Those weapons were cheap and from an eastern block country .""",,
3121,816,"""The golden rule is not just one sided . It does not expect us to do all giving and no taking . I have expectations of how others should treat me ( the taking part ) but , to be consistent , I should realize that they have expectations of me ( the giving part ) .""","""Upon reviewing the golden rule `` do unto others as you would have them do unto you `` I see nothing of any other 'side . ' It 's very clear -- treat others the way you 'd want to be treated . No one wants to be treated badly , so if you follow the golden rule , you 'll be benevolent .""",DISAGREE,"""golden rule not just one sided I have expectations of how others should treat me ( the taking part ) but , to be consistent , I should realize that they have expectations of me ( the giving part )""","""Upon reviewing the golden rule `` do unto others as you would have them do unto you `` see nothing of any other 'side . ' No one wants to be treated badly , so if you follow the golden rule , you 'll be benevolent .""",,
3123,817,"""I am most interested in your demonstration that your mind controls your genes . I challenge you to make yourself striped like a tiger by altering with your mind your own geneome and then have children with the same stripes in order to show that your mind driven alteration is in fact genetic ! Good luck .""","""Well that 's just like a good darwinist to make a ridiculous challenge . What I can show , however , is that thoughts , emotions and social settings can re-express genes , which can lead not only to a change in phenotype , but also to new , heritable traits passed down to future generations . You guys ' hypothesis that it takes a new or changed gene for `` evolution `` ( ie .. change in population over time ) to take place is unsupported , unscientific , un-proven -- and ultimately wrong .""",DISAGREE,"""a tiger by altering with your mind your own geneome and then have children with the same stripes in order to show that your mind driven alteration is in fact genetic ! Good luck .""","""it takes a new or changed gene for `` evolution `` to take place is unsupported , unscientific , un-proven -- and ultimately wrong .""",,
3133,819,"""For instance , she has also listed the `` tornado in a hangar assembling a 747 `` argument against abiogenesis , which I know was fed to her and to which not one atheist here could resist replying at least , `` Umm , not quite ... ``""","""Well , my reply probably would n't be that polite ...""",DISAGREE,"""she has also listed the `` tornado in a hangar assembling a 747 `` argument against abiogenesis""","""my reply probably would n't be that polite""",,
3171,832,"""I beleive Currently a strictly materialistic approach has come up with better results in some circustances when it comes to what we can measure . This makes it reasonable to approach any question dealing with what we can measure from a strictly materialistic standpoint .""","""Really , what is the materialistinc approach to which you refer ( assuming you 're also talking about 'pain ' ) ? a ) Is it strictly materialistic , or do they use non-material methods as well ? b ) Can it be used to onbjectively measure pain ?""",DISAGREE,"""I beleive Currently a strictly materialistic approach has come up with better results in some circustances when it""","""Really , what is the materialistinc approach to which you refer""",,
3179,833,"""Meanwhile , there must have been provisions on the Ark for marine animals and fish as the rainwater would have undoubtedly altered the water pH and saline content . Also not mentioned is the fact that Noah and sons must have collected seeds from every PLANT on earth because I am personally not aware of many plant types that can survive completely submerged for 40 days .""","""Oh really ? Parts of New Orleans were under water for more than 40 days before all the water receeded . Has n't the plant life there replenished naturally in the wild ? Of course it has . The Earth is very able to repair itself in spite of modern mans sense of self importance . Here 's some interesting photographic evidence of it . www.pbase.com/andrys/noah""",DISAGREE,"""I am personally not aware of many plant types that can survive completely submerged for 40 days""","""The Earth is very able to repair itself""",,
3189,835,"""The English government has effectively abolished the right of Englishmen , confirmed in their 1689 Bill of Rights , to `` have arms for their defence , ``""","""To be more accurate , ( not something noted amongst the pro-gun rabble ) the right of protestants to have arms for their defence against catholics . I think we 've all seen quite enough of this `` defence `` in Northern Ireland . ( assuming that yanks can locate the place with a map )""",DISAGREE,"""English government has effectively abolished the right of Englishmen""","""To be more accurate , ( not something noted amongst the pro-gun rabble )""",,
3202,838,"""This post is directed mainly toward men . Women feel free to discuss , but I would like the actual answers to the questions to be from the men . Hitlers or Helpers ? Which one are you ? Hitler defined the Jews as nonhumans , as parasites , so he did execute them . He did . He exercised his freedom of choice , imposed his will upon them , and had them cleaned out from the country . He had them removed , scraped away . A helper is someone who stands alongside another in assistance , and protection . So , which are you ? What kind of a man are you ? Do you have the guts to stand up and defend the weak and helpless ? Or , have you redefined human life so that you can justify killing it ? Do you have the guts to be men and stand for what is right ? Or , is sitting in your couch , watching TV , easier to do than be good men ? Do you have the strength to curtail your own sensual desires ? Or do you seek women for your own pleasure , and then destroy the lives formed in the long because they are inconvenient ? Or , let 's see where you stand ? Are you a Hitler or a helper ? - REAL MEN stand up for the innocent even at the cost of their lives . - REAL MEN do what is right , even when it 's inconvenient . - REAL MEN recognize that there are things greater than themselves , like righteousness , integrity , the need to protect women , the obligation to provide for children , and they live their lives according . - non men get women pregnant after a tryst of satisfying their own desires , and then the emotional burden on the woman to destroy the life within her . - non men advocate killing the weak and defenseless . - non men hide behind the sinful and asinine intellectual arguments of liberals and the ungodly in order to justify the destruction of life so they might be self-assured , and self comforted . - I 'm a real man because I stand against unrighteousness - even when it is extremely difficult . - I 'm a real man because I protect the innocent and the weak . - I 'm a real man because I stand against other males who seek to justify killing the weak and innocent . - I 'm a real man because I advocate the production and preservation of life . - I 'm a real man because I do not set the mother against the child . - I am a real man because I do n't redefine life in emotionally neutral and dry intellectual terms to ease my own conscience . I 'm a helper working against Hitlers !""","""If this is the only way you define manhood , then congratulations . You know passion is a tricky thing . It can bring great gains in society , great achievement . It can also bring horrible horrible things , like this writing . You are making a strawman , if you create your own opposition and make them absurd , then it is surely absurd . You know , here 's what I think about abortion . It does n't matter to me . I do n't really care either way . That being said , it is safer to legalize , it is better to regulate it , and ultimately , as men , we do n't get the choice , do we ? The day when you have to walk into that abortion clinic and make that decision , you stand up and tell me what a real man is . Those poor girls and women who go through abortions did what they had to do , more than you could ever do . Do n't stand on your high horse and lecture the world on the virtuousness of your position . Do n't talk about being virtuous , be virtuous . A `` real man `` helps those who he loves , whether he likes what they did . A father loves his sons and daughters , despite what they do , rather in spite of what they have done . Good day to you .""",DISAGREE,"""REAL MEN stand up for the innocent even at the cost of their lives""","""If this is the only way you define manhood , then congratulations .""",,
3220,849,"""God IS GOOD all the time ...""","""Then why does n't He answer prayers like He says He will in the Bible ?""",DISAGREE,"""God IS GOOD all the time""","""Then why does n't He answer prayers like He says He will in the Bible ?""",,
3227,850,"""But there 's no evidence here for creation . All you can do is argue ( extremely poorly ) against an old earth . Three strikes and your out , kid . Hit the showers .""","""Actually Electro , do you remember this thread ? Evidence for a flood ? Oddly enough it took 20 pages before one of them even tried to argue against the reasons why the flood did not occur .""",AGREE,"""there 's no evidence here for creation . All you can do is argue ( extremely poorly ) against an old earth""","""Evidence for a flood ? Oddly enough it took 20 pages before one of them even tried to argue against the reasons why the flood did not occur .""",,
3226,850,"""But there 's no evidence here for creation . All you can do is argue ( extremely poorly ) against an old earth . Three strikes and your out , kid . Hit the showers .""","""Actually Electro , do you remember this thread ? Evidence for a flood ? Oddly enough it took 20 pages before one of them even tried to argue against the reasons why the flood did not occur .""",AGREE,"""But there 's no evidence here for creation . All you can do is argue ( extremely poorly ) against an old earth""","""even tried to argue against the reasons why the flood did not occur .""",,
3240,853,"""There is quite a bit of debate what the militia can be interpreted as , and individuals ignoring the laws as they see fit is anarchy ( checked out the Free State project , you are a beleiver in Arnacho-captalism or so it seems which is a form of anarchy ) , nothing nessesarily wrong with it though . Understood the point it was making , just the logic is flawed .""","""1. militia - the entire body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service ; `` their troops were untrained militia `` ; `` Congress shall have power to provide for calling forth the militia `` -- United States Constitution . There is only debate on militia from those who wish to redefine its meaning into something it is n't . 2 . '' The Free State Project is a plan in which 20,000 or more liberty-oriented people will move to New Hampshire , where they may work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government . The success of the Free State Project would likely entail reductions in burdensome taxation and regulation , reforms in state and local law , an end to federal mandates , and a restoration of constitutional federalism , demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world. `` Working within our political system to bring back liberty minded governance like our founding fathers envisioned . Anarcho-capitialism it is not .""",DISAGREE,"""There is quite a bit of debate what the militia can be interpreted as , and individuals ignoring the laws as they see fit is anarchy""","""Anarcho-capitialism it is not .""",,
3254,855,"""Your link has nothing about Isreal or the Swiss in it .""","""Yes , it does . Read it all . Also go to this link where an Israeli citizen talks about guns and gun-control in Israel . http : //www.counsel.net/chatboards/2n .... 02.36.24.html Sounds like Israel has strict gun-control laws but also lots of guns . Gun-control has not led to gun confiscation in that nation .""",DISAGREE,"""Your link has nothing about Isreal or the Swiss in it""","""Yes , it does .""",,
3276,859,"""Evolutionists can not support thier theory and expect you to find proof to support yours .""","""I thought you said that you had been following the converstaion . I guess you did n't understand any of it .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionists can not support thier theory""","""I thought you said that you had been following the converstaion . I guess you did n't understand any of it""",,
3273,859,"""Evolutionists can not support thier theory and expect you to find proof to support yours .""","""I thought you said that you had been following the converstaion . I guess you did n't understand any of it .""",DISAGREE,"""support thier theory proof to support""","""following the converstaion did n't understand any of it .""",,
3294,862,"""Today , no informed creationist would deny natural selection .""","""Then 99 % of creationists are not informed as far as I can tell . It seems that your position is that `` informed `` creationists are neo-Darwinists , fully accepting of the theories of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""Today , no informed creationist would deny natural selection .""","""Then 99 % of creationists are not informed as far as I can tell .""",,
3306,864,"""I neither believe that `` all life is sacred `` nor that `` god `` or religion should be used in the debate at all .""","""As I 'm sure you know , the Declaration of Independence states : `` ... all men are created equal , they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights , that among these are Life , Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. `` Who or what do you consider to be the ( capitalised ) Creator in this text ? More importantly , who do you think the authors of the Declaration considered the Creator to be ? The Declaration certainly seems to tie up the notion of 'inalienable rights ' with religion . No more , I 'm going to bed .""",DISAGREE,"""I neither believe that `` all life is sacred `` nor that `` god ``""","""As I 'm sure you know , the Declaration of Independence states :""",,
3334,869,"""Another question might be , have evolutionists figured out the `` mock `` gene yet ? Mockery was a great ingredient in Christian salvation . Judas mocked Jesus in the garden , the chief priests and scribes laughed him to scorn , Herod mocked him , the servants and the soldiers jeered at him and insulted him , and on the cross all sorts of taunts were thrown at him . I do n't claim to be perfect - mockery could possibly be an effective tool in certain instances , but I may be wrong about that . Is mockery synonymous with evil ? The opposite of love ? Do atheists do it more than Christians ?""","""Why you quoted me is questionable . What I posted was merely a series of mathematical equations proving that Hovind is completely full of * * * * . How you consider mathematical equations `` mockery `` I do n't know , but more likely , you did not bother to watch the video . Instead , in your normal fashion , you simply ASSUMED what you wanted to believe and then went from there rather then actually looking at what it was and what it had to say . Your post more accurately is towards the link that AA posted in defense of his beliefs ( yet failed to realize was satirizing those beliefs ) . Furthermore , I 'm not an atheist even though your poor definition wants me to be .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't claim to be perfect - mockery could possibly be an effective tool in certain instances , but I may be wrong about that . Is mockery synonymous with evil ?""","""How you consider mathematical equations `` mockery `` I do n't know""",,
3333,869,"""Another question might be , have evolutionists figured out the `` mock `` gene yet ? Mockery was a great ingredient in Christian salvation . Judas mocked Jesus in the garden , the chief priests and scribes laughed him to scorn , Herod mocked him , the servants and the soldiers jeered at him and insulted him , and on the cross all sorts of taunts were thrown at him . I do n't claim to be perfect - mockery could possibly be an effective tool in certain instances , but I may be wrong about that . Is mockery synonymous with evil ? The opposite of love ? Do atheists do it more than Christians ?""","""Why you quoted me is questionable . What I posted was merely a series of mathematical equations proving that Hovind is completely full of * * * * . How you consider mathematical equations `` mockery `` I do n't know , but more likely , you did not bother to watch the video . Instead , in your normal fashion , you simply ASSUMED what you wanted to believe and then went from there rather then actually looking at what it was and what it had to say . Your post more accurately is towards the link that AA posted in defense of his beliefs ( yet failed to realize was satirizing those beliefs ) . Furthermore , I 'm not an atheist even though your poor definition wants me to be .""",DISAGREE,"""Do atheists do it more than Christians ?""","""Furthermore , I 'm not an atheist even though your poor definition wants me to be .""",,
3353,874,"""Some people do also get a pleasureable effect from shooting guns and using them for such purposes as hunting and target practice .""","""But the fact remains that guns are , by design , weapons .""",DISAGREE,"""using them for such purposes as hunting and target practice""","""But the fact remains that guns are""",,
3364,876,"""You said that the colour changes are caused by a single gene . This further goes to imply that a mutation could disable the primary gene and activate the recessive gene . This is of course IMHO . What you classify as evolution , I call  “ variation within a kind ” . You aren ’ t working off the big picture idea .""","""And you do n't have any picture . You have no idea of what recessive really means , do you . Actually , since the first observation of a black peppered moth in 1848 , several other mutations have caused other variations of color in peppered moths . They are intermediate between the typica and the carbonaria , but they are extremely rare . These alleles form a hierarchy of dominence in which the carbonaria is the full dominant , and the typica is fully recessive . Please define `` kind. `` Please define `` variation. `` Please explain the origin of this `` variation in kind. ``""",DISAGREE,"""You said that the colour changes are caused by a single gene .""","""You have no idea of what recessive really means , do you""",,
3369,878,"""Yet there was a case that I read about somewhere , where a sticker was placed in science textbooks advising children to study evolution `` with an open mind `` , and an ACLU lawsuit ensued .""","""Indeed . Cobb County Georgia . And the sticker was found unconstitutional in Federal Court . The problem was that it was religiously motivated , was placed only in biology texts , did n't say anything true that the teachers were n't already teaching , and actually was not accurate . The sticker was found to be unconstitutional because it violated the second prong of the Lemon Test . I suspect that you do n't know what that is . Anyway , the 11th Circuit reversed .""",AGREE,"""study evolution""","""Federal Court .""",,
3401,891,"""Violent crimes = 48,430 Murder = 523 Forcible rape = 890 Robbery = 22,186 Aggravated assault = 24,831 Property crime = 149,989""","""And YET ! The good mayor has the time , money , and extra man power to go to other cities and look for crimes ? Heck . I have been to New York , and he has an awful lot of nerve going anywhere else looking for crimes to solve . And what criminal enterprises has the people of his good city people supplied other cities with . I mean besides the crimes his investigators committed . Drugs , thugs , and murderers to name a few . Bloomberg , stay the heck where you belong !""",DISAGREE,"""Violent crimes = 48,430""","""And YET ! mayor has the time , money , and extra man power to go to other cities and look for crimes ? he has an awful lot of nerve going anywhere else looking for crimes to solve""",,
3413,892,"""I 'm new to this idea that science has over-ruled Creation . Please explain .""","""The 7 day creation I am referring to , not merely the possibility of divine creation through the Big bang etc""",AGREE,"""I 'm new to this idea that science has over-ruled Creation . Please explain .""","""The 7 day creation I am referring to , not merely the possibility of divine creation through the Big bang etc""",,
3420,893,"""Because it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York ,""","""So according to you , you 'd prefer it if only the bad guys are armed , because that makes it easy to tell who 's the bad guy and who 's the good guy ; being the good guy is never armed , and thus never able to defend themselves .""",DISAGREE,"""Because it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York ,""","""So according to you , you 'd prefer it if only the bad guys are armed , because that makes it easy to tell who 's the bad guy and who 's the good guy ; being the good guy is never armed , and thus never able to defend themselves .""",,
3424,893,"""Because it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York ,""","""So according to you , you 'd prefer it if only the bad guys are armed , because that makes it easy to tell who 's the bad guy and who 's the good guy ; being the good guy is never armed , and thus never able to defend themselves .""",DISAGREE,"""it is illegal to own a handgun without a difficult-to-get permit in New York""","""you 'd prefer it if only the bad guys are armed , being the good guy is never armed , and thus never able to defend themselves .""",,
3427,894,"""Yes , that is the point !""","""And you have yet to prove with statistical evidence that gun shows cause problems . You only have theory and a few isolated incidents .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , that is the point !""","""And you have yet to prove with statistical evidence that gun shows cause problems . You only have theory and a few isolated incidents .""",,
3442,895,"""Clearly this John Raven just wants a bigger budget and so he 's made up yet more stuff about the problems of CO2 pollution""","""Why is this clear ?""",DISAGREE,"""John Raven just wants a bigger budget and so he 's made up yet more stuff about the problems of CO2 pollution""","""Why is this clear ?""",,
3440,895,"""Clearly this John Raven just wants a bigger budget and so he 's made up yet more stuff about the problems of CO2 pollution""","""Why is this clear ?""",DISAGREE,"""John Raven just wants a bigger budget and so he 's made up yet more stuff about the problems of CO2 pollution""","""Why is this clear ?""",,
3453,896,"""Good questions . I agree that this logic is somewhat flawed ( unless quote mined ) . God could have made Adam and Eve . He could then have planted evidence that life evolved to this point . The miracle could have happened , too , in much the same way .""","""See my post above , Hi . marc ignores fundamentals of Miller 's beliefs that he clearly spells out in trying to push his anti-Miller argument .""",DISAGREE,"""Good questions . I agree that this logic is somewhat flawed""","""See my post above""",,
3448,896,"""Good questions . I agree that this logic is somewhat flawed ( unless quote mined ) . God could have made Adam and Eve . He could then have planted evidence that life evolved to this point . The miracle could have happened , too , in much the same way .""","""See my post above , Hi . marc ignores fundamentals of Miller 's beliefs that he clearly spells out in trying to push his anti-Miller argument .""",DISAGREE,"""I agree that this logic is somewhat flawed miracle could have happened""","""marc ignores fundamentals of Miller 's beliefs""",,
3476,904,"""The suspect , identified as a 41-year-old doctor with personal and professional problems , is in custody in Fujian province . The victims were reported to be mostly first-graders . Three children died at the scene and five died later at a hospital , authorities said . At least five other children were injured .""","""The biblical end has got to be near . This was a Doctor who spends all of his life saving people 's lives .""",DISAGREE,"""At least five other children were injured""","""The biblical end has got to be near""",,
3480,905,"""Carey 's opinion is worth no more or less than anyone elses""","""Yes . What would a former Archbishop of Canterbury know about Christianity ?""",DISAGREE,"""Carey 's opinion is worth no more or less than anyone elses""","""Yes . What would a former Archbishop of Canterbury know about Christianity ?""",,
3484,906,"""As I 'm sure you know , the Declaration of Independence states : `` ... all men are created equal , they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights , that among these are Life , Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. `` Who or what do you consider to be the ( capitalised ) Creator in this text ? More importantly , who do you think the authors of the Declaration considered the Creator to be ? The Declaration certainly seems to tie up the notion of 'inalienable rights ' with religion . No more , I 'm going to bed .""","""In my reading of the Declaration ( and using the 1st . Amendment as a filter ) it does n't matter who or what the founders meant by `` Creator. `` The conlusion is the same ; regardless . Namely ; The fact that the founders considered our basic rights to be inherrent .""",DISAGREE,"""Who or what do you consider to be the ( capitalised ) Creator in this text ? More importantly , who do you think the authors of the Declaration considered the Creator to be ?""","""it does n't matter who or what the founders meant by `` Creator. `` The conlusion is the same ; regardless . Namely ; The fact that the founders considered our basic rights to be inherrent .""",,
3493,908,"""because you 're right and they 're wrong ?""","""What is your point ? Should we revert to old laws that allow for slavery ? Over the history of mankind we have struggled to understand God . God has revealled part of Himself to us , but it is difficult for the limited mind to know the unlimited mind . The US had laws enabling this ? Does this mean you were n't a democracy then ? When you were a child , and had total awe of your parents , and believed what they told you , were you less of a person then ? Surely you understand that what your parents taught you then , was a part of you growining and becoming an adult . God for instance calls Himself 'Father ' . This is n't because He has 'male sex organs ' but because it is the best way for us to understand His relationship to us . Likewise , the Jews made laws in order to best live according to God 's Will . They did make mistakes , and got bogged down in the law . Jesus came ( as promised by God ) and liberated us from the entrapment we had set for ourselves . Surely you do n't advocate that we should return to a strict observence of Mosaic laws ?""",DISAGREE,"""because you 're right and they 're wrong ?""","""What is your point ?""",,
3502,911,"""He sure knows how to flood the forum with things he 's copied and pasted ! He must be in the manic phase of his bipolar !""","""You have a habit of constantly posting statements by anti-gun officials . And when these statements and theories are called into question and challenged , you have nothing to post in defense .""",DISAGREE,""" must be in the manic phase of his bipolar !""","""when these statements and theories are called into question and challenged""",,
3505,912,"""It does n't mean that state has to recoginze your marriage if you move in though . You also forgot the last part `` And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts , Records and Proceedings shall be proved , and the Effect thereof. ``""","""Actually , I think Kronos is right in this case -- at least from the standpoint of most consitutional scholars . Of course the framers did n't envision the wording to be used in this way for this purpose -- this is what 's simply called a `` loophole `` , in this case anyway . It 's why there has been an effort in recent years to close the loophole with a constitutional amendment defining marriage .""",AGREE,"""It does n't mean that state has to recoginze your marriage if you move in though .""","""Actually , I think Kronos is right in this case""",,
3510,914,"""U.S . Senator Frank Lautenberg ( D-NJ ) and U.S . Representatives Peter T. King ( R-NY ) have introduced common sense legislation to deny firearms and explosives to terrorists . Currently , federal authorities can not stop sales of guns — including military-style assault weapons — by dealers to known or suspected terrorists . This gap in the law threatens our nation 's safety . A new GAO report finds that , from February 2004 to February 2009 , there were 963 cases in which a known or suspected terrorist attempted to buy a gun . In 90 percent of those cases — a total of 865 times — they were cleared to proceed with that purchase . One of those cases involved the purchase of explosives . Congress must pass the Terror Gap bill to stop known or suspected terrorists from buying guns .""","""So penfold and brady you are in favour of denying citizens rights even though they have not been proved to have commited any crime ? Ed Kennerdy was on that list so should he be discriminated against even though he has commited NO crime ? What is next putting black people on the list purely because of the colour of their skin ? You sicken me you two . Why on gods earth would terrorists be buying civilian guns when they could just use AK47 ? Did you sniff petrol as a youngster as you seem to have .""",DISAGREE,"""the Terror Gap bill to stop known or suspected terrorists from buying guns .""","""penfold and brady you are in favour of denying citizens rights""",,
3517,916,"""What 's the scoop here ? It seems to me with all the shootings that occur in the United States because of all the gun happy nuts running around , everyone would know how to do first aid at the site of a shooting . Good idea simone , when do you start your training . I understand bullet wounds are kind of nasty because they 're deep . There 's also the massive loss of blood ; To be sure , the massive bleeding would wash out nasty debris but a body ca n't stand to lose a bunch of blood .""","""Well so is falling out of a building onto a piece of rebar . Or getting mashed in a car crash . There are a lot more of those than shootings but you do n't seem to care . Why is that ? Is it because you love to dance in blood ?""",DISAGREE,"""It seems to me with all the shootings that occur in the United States because of all the gun happy nuts running around , everyone would know how to do first aid at the site of a shooting .""","""Well so is falling out of a building onto a piece of rebar . Or getting mashed in a car crash . There are a lot more of those than shootings but you do n't seem to care .""",,
3521,917,"""You know exactly what i was saying . And depending on the Police is not an Option not win seconds count and the police are Minutes away . So go on depending on the cops for your protection and hope they do not get their to carry your dead body away .""","""Given your very poor English ( spelling , punctuation and basic sentence structure ) , I think the assumption that anyone can understand 'exactly what you are saying ' is a very poor one . Smiley PS I have highlighted some of the errors in latest attempt .""",DISAGREE,"""So go on depending on the cops for your protection and hope they do not get their to carry your dead body away .""","""I think the assumption that anyone can understand 'exactly what you are saying ' is a very poor one .""",,
3554,926,"""What the Gay and Lesbian Alliance does n't want discussed in the State or National debate is the Economic Cost of this program to the Tax Payers if passed . The increase in costs in virtually every program that affects married couple will be in the multiple billions for just the State , not to mention a National cost if it were legalized every where .""","""I would kind of Like to Discuss your Fascinating use of Caps . But seriously , your numbers are insane . Somewhere around 8000 gay couples have gotten married in the past couple of years , how in the world do you imagine that they 've cost the state hundreds of thousands or millions each ? You just made all that up , did n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""The increase in costs in virtually every program that affects married couple will be in the multiple billions for just the State , not to mention a National cost if it were legalized every where .""","""around 8000 gay couples have gotten married in the past couple of years , how in the world do you imagine that they 've cost the state hundreds of thousands or millions each ?""",,
3565,928,"""Anyone who finds themselves foolish enough to believe Hitler was a Christian , for whatever reason you want to believe , needs to look up the word 'propaganda . ' A lot of you anti-Christians are good at spreading it , though .""","""And why would I be anti Christianity when I am Christian ? Oh and by the way to who ever it was who said I don ’ t believe in Jesus , or something to that extent , I never said anything to that extent , you just made up what you wanted and got mad about it . I believe in the teachings of Jesus . Yes I 'm betting your asking me how I know about his teachings if I have never read the bible , My mom is someone who has re-read the bible like 6 or 7 times . So she ’ s told me all about it , and what its supposed to teach us .""",DISAGREE,"""Anyone who finds themselves foolish enough to believe Hitler was a Christian , for whatever reason you want to believe , needs to look up the word 'propaganda . ' A lot of you anti-Christians are good at spreading it , though .""","""And why would I be anti Christianity when I am Christian ? Oh and by the way to who ever it was who said I don ’ t believe in Jesus , or something to that extent , I never said anything to that extent , you just made up what you wanted and got mad about it .""",,
3572,929,"""And how do you KNOW this creature is that old ? Alligators supposedly lived with dinosaurs and they are still around .""","""Wrong . Crocs , more accurately primitive crocs lived with dinosaurs . Modern crocs did not . Crocs came about 200 million years ago , Alligators much much later .""",DISAGREE,"""And how do you KNOW this creature is that old ? Alligators supposedly lived with dinosaurs and they are still around .""","""Wrong . Crocs , more accurately primitive crocs lived with dinosaurs . Modern crocs did not . Crocs came about 200 million years ago , Alligators much much later .""",,
3580,931,"""It was a media circus , and had plenty to do with the establishment clause of the first amendment .""","""So the Establishment Clause was included to promote atheism , eh ?""",DISAGREE,"""It was a media circus , and had plenty to do with the establishment clause of the first amendment .""","""So the Establishment Clause was included to promote atheism , eh ?""",,
3606,937,"""Other paranoid voices argue that the citizens should arm themselves against their own government .""","""So you think the Constitution is `` paranoid `` huh ? You need to read the Federalist and anti- Federalist papers and quotes from our FF .""",DISAGREE,"""Other paranoid voices argue that the citizens should arm themselves against their own""","""So you think the Constitution is `` paranoid `` huh ?""",,
3612,939,"""http : www.talkorigins.org""","""This is a good site , but very atheist I think . Do you know of a good theistic equivalent ? I do not mean like those awful websites that misrepresent science to try and shoehorn the world into their Bible stories ( sorry to pick on Christians here , but it is Christian ones that I notice ) , but ones that look at real science and look to see if a theistic explaination works for things ?""",DISAGREE,"""http : www.talkorigins.org""","""I do not mean like those awful websites that misrepresent science to try""",,
3630,942,"""those kind of websites are like porn to gun nuts but getting big gun wont compensate for being born with a small one""","""Just as being anti-gun wo n't compensate for being born with a small brain .""",DISAGREE,"""getting big gun wont compensate for being born with a small one""","""Just as being anti-gun wo n't compensate for being born with a small brain .""",,
3645,946,"""It 's established in university administrations and peer review . That 's the `` top `` - that 's where the leadership is .""","""Really ? So , university presidents and trustees -- the overwhelming majority of whom have no connection with evolution , and most of whom are considerably more politically conservative than university faculties -- are behind the whole thing ? Wow . You know , this sort of claim requires evidence . I would like see your evidence of university administration involvement . Got any ? And who are the `` top `` in the peer-review process ? Editors ? Please explain what you mean .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's established in university administrations and peer review . That 's the `` top ``""","""And who are the `` top `` in the peer-review process ? Editors ?""",,
3669,950,"""I beg your pardon ? How did you arrive at pregnancy versus death ? Did you know that sometimes pregnancy can mean death ?""","""Sometimes a pregancy means death . Most of the time it does n't . Are we allowed to make this distinction since you brought it up or must we treat every pregnancy as life threatening ?""",DISAGREE,"""I beg your pardon ?""","""Sometimes a pregancy means death .""",,
3687,954,"""I 'm not too familiar with this ... does this mean the US will be funding organizations outside the US that support or perform abortions ( or can ) or does it mean they will be able to fund organizations that are foreign owned and have operations in the US ? Hopefully someone will know""","""Obama overturns ban on overseas abortion funding I thought abortion was the fix for bad or no family planning""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not too familiar with this ... does this mean the US will be funding organizations outside the US that support or perform abortions""","""Obama overturns ban on overseas abortion funding""",,
3690,955,"""Of all those likely to be mislead by your statement , it 's young impressionable school children . Publicly paid school teachers misleading them with statements like that , without a full explanation ( prohibited by the courts ) does get an establishment of atheism started . It 's what I mean when I say that when church and state are separated , atheism and state are combined . Maybe government could be neutral , if it was small . The U.S. government is no longer small .""","""Paranoia is so ugly . It 's not OK to teach scientific theory but it is OK to tell them that mythology is fact ?""",DISAGREE,"""Of all those likely to be mislead by your statement , it 's young impressionable school children . Publicly paid school teachers misleading them with statements like that , without a full explanation ( prohibited by the courts ) does get an establishment of atheism started""","""Paranoia is so ugly . It 's not OK to teach scientific theory but it is OK to tell them that mythology is fact ?""",,
3695,956,"""False , since Copernicus had already propsed same , it was really because Gallieo was a jerk with the Pope and Church authorities . No one else was treated like him . He was a `` special `` case . - Click Here""","""He was n't that special a case . Let 's not forget about Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake for refusing to recant his idea that that the stars in the sky were all suns with worlds and intellegent beings on them . http : //galileo.rice.edu/chr/bruno.html but alas : It is often maintained that Bruno was executed because of his Copernicanism and his belief in the infinity of inhabited worlds . In fact , we do not know the exact grounds on which he was declared a heretic because his file is missing from the records . All the same , he was burned for being a heretic .""",DISAGREE,"""it was really because Gallieo was a jerk with the Pope and Church authorities .""","""Let 's not forget about Giordano Bruno who was burned at the stake for refusing to recant his idea""",,
3697,957,"""1 . Reason does not imply truth , it 's a method of separating truth from what is false ,""","""In which you contradict your first clause with the second . You say reason is n't about finding truth ; but separating if from what is false ; which is to find what is truth !""",DISAGREE,"""Reason does not imply truth , it 's a method of separating truth from what is false ,""","""In which you contradict your first clause with the second .""",,
3701,958,"""Do you believe that a fetus in a women 's body is just undeveloped tissue or a start in where human life begins ? Undeveloped tissue . Both . Human life .""","""Both . It 's where a human life begins but not a life yet .""",AGREE,"""Do you believe that a fetus in a women 's body is just undeveloped tissue or a start in where human life begins ? Undeveloped tissue . Both . Human life .""","""Both . It 's where a human life begins but not a life yet .""",,
3717,969,"""Right , that does it . So far , I considered there crusaders harmless , but this ... No more sugar , and inflammation goes away ? ! ? I see that these guys can be downright dangerous ..""","""Well it 's a bit more than that .... there 's the issue of bad fats too ... ie omega 6 fats . Ever notice how the Omega 3s in Salmon and flaxseed oil are pushed ? .... you know why ? Because Omega 3 oils , among other things , have an anti-inflammatory effect in the body . Why is it so hard to believe that if a diet that 's high in sugar leads to inflammatory diseases , that a reduction or elimination of sugar would eliminate or drastically reduce those symptoms ? I 'm actually speaking from experience . I did n't dream this stuff up . I 've lived it . I used to have a condition called chronic prostatitis ... which is an inflammation of the prostate that often happens in young men . This is not a medically curable condition . Doctors often throw antibiotics at it , but most men do n't respond to that . As a result there are thousands of men around the country who live in constant , chronic debilitating pain . I used to be one of them . But no longer . I learned the secret , which is to eliminate junk foods and sugars . After just a couple weeks of doing this my constant pain just seemed to evaporate . I have never looked back . Have you ever noticed how some people seem to always be hot , while some are cold ? Some people are just hot natured . Many times older people are cold natured . Do you know why ? It 's from caloric intake . The more calories one consumes , the hotter the oven gets in your body . Calories are just measurements of heat . heat corresponds with inflammation ... inflammation is the source of the problem .""",DISAGREE,"""No more sugar , and inflammation goes away ? ! ?""","""Well it 's a bit more than that .... there 's the issue of bad fats too ... ie omega 6 fats .""",,
3728,972,"""No being Japanese is not a disorder . What you are neglecting is causality of depression and suicide . That is why I mentioned that the high rates can not possibly be attributed to just homosexuals that are ostracized by the religious or openly hostile anti-gay individuals . There must be associative behavior and cause within the community , within these homosexual relationships themselves . Is that caused by homosexual brains ? Unsure . Is it the indivduals themselves and the assosiative issues within the homosexual relationship . Quite likely , but still causality is not 100 % clear . I 'm sure if you delved deeper into the causes of Japanese suicides you would find a myriad of reasons much like any colletive with high suicide rates .""","""Yes , but this is why I brought up the bible , because that would be an alternate reason that would not be caused by homosexual brains that could occur in cultures supportive of homosexuality . I believe that you are right about Japanese culture , if you delved into it you would find there is not a genetic but cultural cause for their high suicide rates , but I believe that you would find the same thing with homosexuality .""",AGREE,"""you are neglecting is causality of depression and suicide""","""alternate reason that would not be caused by homosexual brains that could occur in cultures supportive of homosexuality""",,
3736,974,"""This has nothing to do with religion whatsoever .""","""Well ... someone has n't been following the campaigns for the so-called `` protection of marriage `` amendments , federal or state .""",DISAGREE,"""nothing religion""","""someone has n't been following `` protection of marriage""",,
3759,985,"""Everything is made up of cells !""","""Yes , every living thing is made up of cells .""",AGREE,"""Everything is made up of cells !""","""Yes , every living thing is made up of cells .""",,
3766,988,"""Mutagenesis Is Often Futile Bacterial populations are estimated to spend most of their time under strong growth limitation ( 53 , 55 ) , and many of these stresses can not be relieved by mutation ( e.g. , lack of any carbon source , exposure to extreme physical conditions ) . If mutagenesis were induced by such stresses , it would create deleterious mutations without hope of benefit . A mechanism for stress-induced mutagenesis might be advantageous if cells could determine that ( a ) the problem is solvable by mutation and ( b ) that death is assured if no mutation is forthcoming . Without such prescience , cells with a mechanism for stress-induced mutagenesis would be eliminated by repeated rounds of futile mutagenesis .""","""In other words , a cell trying to 'survive , thrive and reproduce ' via a self-induced state of stochastic hypermutation would most likely just end up killing itself ...""",DISAGREE,"""Without such prescience , cells with a mechanism for stress-induced mutagenesis would be eliminated by repeated rounds of futile mutagenesis .""","""a cell trying to 'survive , thrive and reproduce ' via a self-induced state of stochastic hypermutation would most likely just end up killing itself""",,
3787,992,"""And would n't it be great that rather than giving the same old canned responses that are based in the same old false assumptions , and the mocking insults toward me , that your side actually dealt with the questions asked . Only then , with objective and serious consideration will you evos realize how you have been duped by scientific gibberish and pseudo intellectual psycho babble that lead very simple people into thinking that with such big words and so scientific a vocabulary , the lie of evo must be at least based in truth . I submit to you that nothing could be further from the truth .""","""I think there are few better things than self-evident irony . I love it .""",DISAGREE,"""Only then , with objective and serious consideration will you evos realize how you have been duped by scientific gibberish and pseudo intellectual psycho babble that lead very simple people into thinking that with such big words and so scientific a vocabulary , the lie of evo must be at least based in truth""","""I think there are few better things than self-evident irony . I love it .""",,
3794,994,"""Current 'treatment ' includes : Use of a placebo Laying on of hands Prayer Tossing salt over thy shoulder Planting 3 kernels of rice in the ground under your home Saying the Pledge of Allegience And thanking the Obamasiah for a bountiful crop of beets . Oh , and if you can locate the witch , have her confess to the crime of making you ill ... and punished for doing so ... you stand a better chance of living longer with said cancers .""","""If this is what passes for American healthcare , then your need for change is even more desperate . None of these `` treatments `` is available on the NHS .""",DISAGREE,"""Saying the Pledge of Allegience And thanking the Obamasiah for a bountiful crop of beets""","""American healthcare , then your need for change is even more desperate . None of these `` treatments `` is available on the NHS""",,
3810,999,"""If you personally choose to live your life in accordance to the bible , that 's fine . But the Bible , like many other foreign documents , has no place in politics . Religious influence in government is highly un-American .""","""It 's amazing how little you godless heathens have studied the writings of the founding fathers . Here are just some of the facts that are seldom taught in America ’ s public school classrooms : The most frequently recognized source for political inspiration for the founding fathers was the Bible , which was referenced in some 34 % of the founding father ’ s quotations . The first reference to God as the foundation of an American colony was noted in the  ‘ Mayflower Compact ,  ’ dated November 11 , 1620 :  “ Â….Having undertaken for the Glory of God , and advancement of the Christian faith , and the honour of our king and country , a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia ; Do by these presents , solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one another , covenant and combine ourselves together into a Civil BodyÂ…. ” Many of the founding fathers recognized that the principles of civil law were inseparably linked to Biblical truths . James Wilson , one of the original Supreme Court Justices , and a signer of the Constitution , explained ,  “ Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divineÂ…Far from being rivals or enemies , religion and law are twin sisters , friends , and mutual assistantsÂ…Â ” Additionally , the United States Supreme Court specifically recognized America as a Christian nation . In the case  “ Church of the Holy Trinity vs. the United States ” ( Feb. 29 , 1892 , US457-458 ) , Justice Josiah Brewer , following a lengthy and exhaustive search of early American historical literature , commented ,  “ We find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truthÂ….that we are a Christian nationÂ…. ” In another Supreme Court Case ,  “ Zorach vs. Clauson ” ( 1952 , US306 307 313 ) , Justice William O. Douglas categorically stated ,  “ We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. ” Further , in  “ United States vs. Macintosh ” ( 1931 , 283 US 605 , 625 ) , Justice George Sutherland affirmed ,  “ We are a Christian peopleÂ….affording to one another the equal right of religious freedom , and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God. ” At the Constitutional Convention on June 28 , 1787 , Benjamin Franklin noted :  “ Â…The longer I live , the more convincing proofs I see of this truth , that God governs in the affairs of men . And if a sparrow can not fall to the ground without His notice , is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid ? We have been assured , Sir , in the Sacred Writings , that  ‘ except the Lord build the House , they labor in vain that build it. ” There are many today who believe Franklin was a strict deist , but Franklin here is not only referencing the Bible , but is alluding in part to a teaching by Jesus Christ from Matthew 10:29 . Concerning the outcome of the American Revolution , John Quincy Adams noted ,  “ The highest glory won from the American Revolution was this : it connected , in one indissoluble bond , the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. ” In a letter to Thomas Jefferson dated June 28 , 1813 , John Adams wrote :  “ The general principles on which the ( founding ) fathers achieved independence wereÂ…the general principles of Christianity. ” Founding father Noah Webster proclaimed much the same message when he said ,  “ The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His ApostlesÂ…This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government. ” Time after time , the founding fathers declared similar beliefs . From the archives of Patrick Henry ’ s personal notes ( handwritten on the back of his copy of the  “ Stamp Act Resolutions ,  ” made public after his death ) we read :  “ Whether this ( new government ) will prove a blessing or a curse will depend upon the use our people make of the blessings which a gracious God hath bestowed on us . If they are wise they will be great and happy . If they are of a contrary character , they will be miserable . Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation. ” Thomas Jefferson was hardly speaking from a strict deist standpoint when he said :  “ Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis , a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God ? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath ? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just ; and that His justice can not sleep forever. ” ( Notes on the State of Virginia , 1781 )  “ I shall need , too , the favor of that Being in whose hands we are , who lead our forefathers , as Israel of old , from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessities and comforts of life. ” ( Monday , March 4 , 1805 , in his 2nd Inaugural Address ) Remember , a strict deist was one who believed God was like a watchmaker , who wound up the universe and thereafter did not involve himself in the affairs of men and nations . Jefferson obviously believed otherwise . Speaking of Godly principles , Jefferson stated :  “ A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen ; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian , that is to say , a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. ” ( Jan. 9 , 1816 – In a letter to Charles Thomson ) George Washington , the  “ Father of our Country ,  ” likewise recognized God as supremely important in the American dream . In his first inaugural address on April 30 , 1789 , Washington remarked :  “ It would be improper to omit , in this first official act , my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe. ” On Saturday , October 3 , 1789 , President Washington said this in proclaiming a day of national thanksgiving :  “ It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God. ” Today , our public schools are in a moral crisis . Washington once noted ,  “ If you remove religious principles from the schools you are going to lose national morality. ” How prophetic he was ! Benjamin Rush , a signer of the Declaration of Independence who was also known as the  “ Father of Public Schools ,  ” once had this to offer :  “ The only foundation for a republic isÂ…religion . Without it there can be no virtue , and without virtue there can be no liberty. ” Don ’ t miss the significance of that last statement :  “ .. without virtue there can be no libertyÂ…. ” The principle is clear – a lack of virtue engenders bondage . As one writer noted ,  “ Intemperate men can never be free because their passions give rise to their fetters ( bindings ) . ” The more liberties a godless people achieve , the more enslaved they ultimately become in their worldly obsessions . Still another founding father , the Reverend John Witherspoon , mirrored Benjamin Rush when he declared ,  “ Â…Civil liberty can not long be preserved without virtueÂ…. ” And finally , let ’ s not forget James Madison , known as the  “ Chief Architect of U.S. Constitution ,  ” who once had this to say :  “ Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ. ” This is just a very short list of thousands of such examples that clearly speak of the Biblical and Christian foundations of our Founding Fathers and early America . Along with these there were the church services in government buildings up to and shortly after the civil war ; paid chaplains , government authorized missionaries , reliefs of Moses and the Ten Commandments in the Supreme Court building , and so on and so forth . Whatever moral foundations apart from Christian and Biblical principles one may argue was second , was not even a close second . The record on that is clear . And so today , the debate over the moral foundations of America continues , but not in this quarter . America is in a moral and spiritual decline due to the ungodly secularization of this country .  “ Thou shalt not ” has been replaced with ,  “ If it feels good do it. ” The wisdom of God has been replaced with the tenets of men ; absolute truths replaced with moral relativism , and  “ Father God ” has been replaced with  “ Mother Earth. ” America is now paying the price for this ill-conceived venture . The remedy : A return to Godly values and principles , upon which this nation  “ of the people , by the people , and for the people ,  ” was clearly founded . ( RighterReport.com )""",DISAGREE,"""bible Religious influence in government is highly un-American""","""godless heathens""",,
3813,1000,"""Can creationists explain why we can see stars millions of light years away ? Do creationists have a valid reason for claiming astronomers/physicists have got it wrong ?""","""First of all not all Astronomers believe that . All though it is a very long way to the closest star we really do n't know how far stars are away from us it is not possible to know . It is an educated guess at best . If you base your beliefs on science you will almost always have to change them so are they really beliefs ? Time and distance are 2 different entities . On the other side of the world it is a diffferent day . A light year is the distance light would travel in a year if at the speed we have computed it to be on earth . How gravity affects light in space in pure specualtion as almost all of the cosmological theories are . Black holes were created to explain the big bang . There are lots of astonomers that are convinced the big bang is a myth . If the stars were created near the earth and then streched out as the Bible says they were the relationship of time and distance would be quite different and would explain how light from a distant star could be seen . No one really knows the answer so it is a matter of faith what you decide is true . Both are possible according to science . The powers that be in science are atheist and get the most press . This does not make them right by default . There is a very good book on this subject Starlight and Time if you are interested in what a brilliant scientist who believes in Creation has to say . I will be suprised if you are . I have read Hawkings and have him on audio and video . To be fair you should take some time and study the opposing view IMO .""",DISAGREE,"""creationists stars millions of light years away valid reason for claiming astronomers/physicists have got it wrong""","""First of all not all Astronomers believe that . All though it is a very long way to the closest star we really do n't know how far stars are away from us it is not possible to know . If the stars were created near the earth and then streched out as the Bible says they were the relationship of time and distance would be quite different No one really knows the answer so it is a matter of faith what you decide is true . Both are possible according to science .""",,
3816,1001,"""That is a lot , but I want gun control . I want : 1 ) Instant background checks . No waiting period . No cool off time . No central database of gun owners .""","""Only if they do the same thing for driver licences ( cars are deadly ) . I would not be killed if they did an instant check that was seperate from the gun purchase ... Although I would be supsicious ....""",AGREE,"""Instant background checks . No waiting period .""","""I would not be killed if they did an instant check that was seperate from the gun purchase""",,
3820,1002,"""That 's why you do n't find them much below the Arctic circle . Anyway , the change still is n't evolution . That 's my claim""","""What 's your claim ? That the seasonal molt of arctic foxes is evolution or that it is not ? As usual , your responses show muddled thinking .""",DISAGREE,"""Anyway , the change still is n't evolution . That 's my claim""","""What 's your claim ? That the seasonal molt of arctic foxes is evolution or that it is not ?""",,
3828,1003,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""First and formost .... me .""",DISAGREE,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""First and formost .... me .""",,
3825,1003,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""First and formost .... me .""",DISAGREE,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""First and formost .... me .""",,
3851,1007,"""In reality , those who are  “ retarded ” can do nothing  “ normal ” , including drive , eat , use the restroom , etc. , without assistance . To call someone  “ retarded ” , that ’ s not , is common , but shows lack of character . You evidently have no loved ones that are mentally disabled . It ’ s a low blow , IMO . I know there ’ s an explanation for everything , that ’ s why God isn ’ t praised as much as He should be . I tend to thank Him for all things . It ’ s a habit of mine . I just thought that I ’ d throw in my 2 cents worth . No harm intended .""","""Oh , ok , I can be politically correct if it makes you feel better . How about I refer to them as `` intelligence deficient `` . And I was really not referring to bona fide `` retarded `` individuals ( those with true pathology ) . I agree that there is nothing funny about that . How about I refer to them as people who drive like XXXXXX ... Is that better ?""",DISAGREE,"""You evidently have no loved ones that are mentally disabled .""","""I can be politically correct if it makes you feel better . How about I refer to them as people who drive like XXXXXX ... Is that better ?""",,
3858,1008,"""Yes , but ... Sotomayor is a very strict legal beagle . Had I the best sort of law degree from the best university , I would very much fear to take her on in the field of established law . She observes the law down to the last dot , dash and comma . However ... while the right to choose is still a part of established law , the radical and experimental present Supreme Court does not hesitate in the least to legislate new law and new meanings to law . Were Sotomayor to be persuaded by the Roman Catholic cabal of the U.S. Supreme Court that the Court should take it upon itself to rewrite Roe v. Wade , she might join in with the legislative five to make a new and more restrictive law regarding abortion .""","""As a matter of perspective on the above ; Roe is , was and always will be the historical reference for an example of `` judicial activism. `` Roe did not establish the `` right to chose `` if it had , the States could not regulate abortions at all . The activists judges in Roe manufactured law in an attempt to balance the rights of a woman to her privacy against the States right to regulate abortion . Does n't anyone care about researching the facts before theygo running off at the mouth anymore ? Roe v. Wade - Oral Arguments MR. JUSTICE REHNQUIST , ( later to become Chief Justice ) dissenting.http : //www.audiocasefiles.com/acf_cases/8960-roe-v-wade `` The Court eschews the history of the Fourteenth Amendment in its reliance on the `` compelling state interest `` test . See Weber v. Aetna Casualty & amp ; Surety Co. . . . ( dissenting opinion ) . But the Court adds a new wrinkle to this test by transposing it from the legal considerations associated with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to this case arising under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment . Unless I misapprehend the consequences of this transplanting of the `` compelling state interest test , `` the Court 's opinion will accomplish the seemingly impossible feat of leaving this area of the law more confused than it found it. ``""",DISAGREE,"""she might join in with the legislative five to make a new and more restrictive law regarding abortion .""","""Roe did not establish the `` right to chose `` if it had , the States could not regulate abortions at all .""",,
3856,1008,"""Yes , but ... Sotomayor is a very strict legal beagle . Had I the best sort of law degree from the best university , I would very much fear to take her on in the field of established law . She observes the law down to the last dot , dash and comma . However ... while the right to choose is still a part of established law , the radical and experimental present Supreme Court does not hesitate in the least to legislate new law and new meanings to law . Were Sotomayor to be persuaded by the Roman Catholic cabal of the U.S. Supreme Court that the Court should take it upon itself to rewrite Roe v. Wade , she might join in with the legislative five to make a new and more restrictive law regarding abortion .""","""As a matter of perspective on the above ; Roe is , was and always will be the historical reference for an example of `` judicial activism. `` Roe did not establish the `` right to chose `` if it had , the States could not regulate abortions at all . The activists judges in Roe manufactured law in an attempt to balance the rights of a woman to her privacy against the States right to regulate abortion . Does n't anyone care about researching the facts before theygo running off at the mouth anymore ? Roe v. Wade - Oral Arguments MR. JUSTICE REHNQUIST , ( later to become Chief Justice ) dissenting.http : //www.audiocasefiles.com/acf_cases/8960-roe-v-wade `` The Court eschews the history of the Fourteenth Amendment in its reliance on the `` compelling state interest `` test . See Weber v. Aetna Casualty & amp ; Surety Co. . . . ( dissenting opinion ) . But the Court adds a new wrinkle to this test by transposing it from the legal considerations associated with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to this case arising under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment . Unless I misapprehend the consequences of this transplanting of the `` compelling state interest test , `` the Court 's opinion will accomplish the seemingly impossible feat of leaving this area of the law more confused than it found it. ``""",DISAGREE,"""while the right to choose is still a part of established law , the radical and experimental present Supreme Court does not hesitate in the least to legislate new law and new meanings to law . Were Sotomayor to be persuaded by the Roman Catholic cabal of the U.S. Supreme Court that the Court should take it upon itself to rewrite Roe v. Wade , she might join in with the legislative five to make a new and more restrictive law regarding abortion .""","""As a matter of perspective on the above ; Roe is , was and always will be the historical reference for an example of `` judicial activism. `` Roe did not establish the `` right to chose `` if it had , the States could not regulate abortions at all . The activists judges in Roe manufactured law in an attempt to balance the rights of a woman to her privacy against the States right to regulate abortion . Does n't anyone care about researching the facts before theygo running off at the mouth anymore""",,
3863,1009,"""here we go Dan . your problem with the law is not whether its fair or not , its whether you can benefit personally from it . you have no problem with abortion because your not going to be the victim of such a law , but youd definitely have a problem if you were the one suffering from the law . Apparently you dont care if the law disadvantages or is unfair to others , as long as it does n't hurt you , you 're OK with it . More evidence of your selfish motives , which is not necessarily a bad thing , but it sort of disqualifies you from being objective and reasonable about the abortion issue . Its obvious if you were in the fetus ' position , you 'd be against abortion . I seem to detect a lot of abiguity and contraction on where you stand on this""","""But what 's best for society is usually best for me , and so I am not disqualified from this debate . That 's why I keep pointing out why it would be a bad thing to enslave people or oppress people because it hurts everyone in the end . That 's what causes wars and crime a lot of the time . So yeah , I do go with what 's best for me , but why should I go with any other way ? If I was a fetus , well who knows what I 'd think . That 's a whole other debate that some other people have already gotten into but which I think is kind of pointless . My whole point is that we kill people every day whether you like it or not , so this whole right to life thing is nonsense . You may not be the one pulling the trigger , but you always contribute to deaths . But we try to select which deaths we cause so that those deaths will lead to the most happiness for everyone else . And I think that allowing abortion does lead to more happiness for society . And before you try to show me polls about abortion to prove that many people disagree with it , and so it causes them unhappiness , that 's not the only thing I 'm talking about . I 'm talking about the unhappiness of the child born into an ungrateful family , the potential criminal problems , and all the other things that have already been mentioned . And yes , those are only potential problems , but that 's how society works . We give people jobs based on their percieved potential , we admit people to college based on potential . You have to go with the odds , it 's simply how life works .""",DISAGREE,"""is obvious if you were in the fetus ' position , you 'd be against abortion .""","""My whole point is that we kill people every day whether you like it or not , so this whole right to life thing is nonsense .""",,
3903,1027,"""I have never received an actual explanation for the doctrine of eternal damnation from anyone I 've asked . It is something I struggled with before turning to Atheism , something I tried desperately to rationalize , and was one of the main points that LED to me becoming Atheist Many Christians claim that their God is omnipotent/omniscient . They claim that their God is a god of compassion , love , and mercy . Yet , with all of this , they claim that God punishes all people who do not accept Jesus as their savior with eternal torment in Hell , i.e . the vast majority of mankind numbering into the billions . What possible compassionate purpose can infinite torture have ? The punishment does n't even serve a remedial purpose because the tormented one is not allowed to repent . It 's only conceivable purpose ( to me at least ) is sadism . How is this not evil ? This thread is especially so I can her the thoughts of Christians on this and how they rationalize it , but anyone can feel free to chime in with observations , etc .""","""Well , here is my take on it . I really believe that only the truly evil end up in Hell . Those like Hitler . I think that anyone else goes to heaven - Wiccans , Atheists , Buddhists , etc . - anyone who follows Christ 's message of love , tolerance , and acceptance , whether knowingly or not . Those who preach hate , and those who act on that hate , like Hitler , the KKK , and any other person/persons filled with hate ( sad to say , this seems to apply to our own friend Archie here ) are the ones who will end up in hell .""",AGREE,"""I have never received an actual explanation for the doctrine of eternal damnation from anyone I 've asked .""","""Well , here is my take on it""",,
3906,1028,"""In Australia we do n't need guns we have a Police force to protect us .""","""So the police can be there instantly if you have an intruder ? They can respond before you even call them ? Wow , you have some fast-responding police ! That 's fine if that 's what you want . But I 'd prefer take personal responsibility for myself and my family , thank you , rather than trust the police who may or may not be reliable , trustworthy , and likely wo n't be there fast enough to stop an attack before it happens .""",DISAGREE,"""In Australia we do n't need guns we have a Police force to protect us .""","""So the police can be there instantly if you have an intruder ? They can respond before you even call them ?""",,
3909,1029,"""Heller though refocused the 2nd Amendment protection spotlight away from Miller 's primary military usefulness `` rule `` and brought Miller 's `` in common use by the citizen `` ( fn4 ) into the forefront .""","""So they decided to focus on the dicta in Miller rather than the holding ? I wondered how Heller would handle or get around the machine gun question if they decided to go the individual right route especially in light of the civic purpose of the Second Amendment . Heller seemed to me to say that the right is not limited to its civic purpose but can be more limited than its civic purpose .""",AGREE,"""Heller though refocused the 2nd Amendment protection spotlight away from Miller 's primary military usefulness `` rule ``""","""So they decided to focus on the dicta in Miller rather than the holding ?""",,
3941,1042,"""Science is not all knowledge , it does not have the answer for everything that is the religion of scientism that believes that . Science means to know but it does not know everything . It is a wonderful tool not the meaning of life .""","""Science is the current sum of human knowledge about how the world works .""",DISAGREE,"""Science is not all knowledge""","""Science is the current sum""",,
3942,1043,"""... Oh , yeah ... and in fifty words or less , please .""","""Teehee . Nice .""",AGREE,"""and in fifty words or less""","""Nice .""",,
3944,1043,"""... Oh , yeah ... and in fifty words or less , please .""","""Teehee . Nice .""",AGREE,"""Oh , yeah ... and in fifty words or less , please .""","""Teehee . Nice .""",,
3945,1044,"""Pro-lifers have been dropped on their head too many times .""","""And teenagers consistently prove why they do n't deserve the right to vote .""",AGREE,"""Pro-lifers have been dropped on their head too many times .""","""And teenagers consistently prove why they do n't deserve the right to vote .""",,
3968,1051,"""* * Which is why you darwinists , for all that you parade yourselves as 'scientists ' , are really nothing but 'true believers ' , intent upon evangelizing your core ideology , materialist atheism .""","""Nope a true believer will insist on his belief system even in the presense of overwheliming contrary evidence . So far you have not managed to produce andy such evidence to the contrary . Should you do so in a rational scientific way which can be verified then Darwinists will throw down the theory and join you in your conclusions with verve . I am not however going to wait for it to happen . Tis up to you .""",DISAGREE,"""you darwinists parade yourselves as 'scientists ' , are really nothing but 'true believers ' evangelizing your core ideology materialist atheism""","""Nope a true believer will insist on his belief system even in the presense of overwheliming contrary evidence you have not managed to produce andy such evidence""",,
3984,1054,"""Yet to the woman the fetus is nothing more then cancer . The fetus is in her body and still should remain HER choice . Until someone comes up with a way for a fetus to live outside the body , without help , then it is nothing more then cancer and a parasite on the womans body . How about a compromise on this issue MEN should not have a say or decision about abortion and we all leave any legal desions to women . Since this is a womans issue let them decide and males but out .""","""A woman can think was she wants but it is still a human being . Killing parasites was often the argument for eugenics ya know ... a parasite on society ... just thought I 'd let that slip . Nevertheless , I think the woman should have the choice .. and she does . However , if she makes the choice to kill another human being we should punish her or whoever did it .""",DISAGREE,"""Since this is a womans issue let them decide and males but out .""","""However , if she makes the choice to kill another human being we should punish her or whoever did it .""",,
3982,1054,"""Yet to the woman the fetus is nothing more then cancer . The fetus is in her body and still should remain HER choice . Until someone comes up with a way for a fetus to live outside the body , without help , then it is nothing more then cancer and a parasite on the womans body . How about a compromise on this issue MEN should not have a say or decision about abortion and we all leave any legal desions to women . Since this is a womans issue let them decide and males but out .""","""A woman can think was she wants but it is still a human being . Killing parasites was often the argument for eugenics ya know ... a parasite on society ... just thought I 'd let that slip . Nevertheless , I think the woman should have the choice .. and she does . However , if she makes the choice to kill another human being we should punish her or whoever did it .""",DISAGREE,"""Yet to the woman the fetus is nothing more then cancer . it is nothing more then cancer and a parasite""","""A woman can think was she wants but it is still a human being . Killing parasites was often the argument for eugenics ya know ... Nevertheless , I think the woman should have the choice .. and she does .""",,
4008,1059,"""Fact is grant money is n't going to embryonic stem cell research because it has n't yielded results favorable to the investment ... now scientism on the other hand has an agenda in supporting the pro-choice contingent they do n't care about objectivity , truth , right ... wrong ... evidence , fact , reason , common sense , clinical trials . All they care about is their agenda , abortion on demand . Thought I 'd poke a hole the glass of Kool-Aid you folks are guzzling here : Stem Cell Research - The Next Four Years Under Barack Obama | Science Blog Congressman Daniel Lipinski - ( July 30 , 2007 ) Adult Stem Cell Research Puts Patients First , Proponents Say""","""The only arguement I hear from these links against embryonic stem cell research is that , in ten years , it has n't yielded sufficient results for human trials . If that is your only arguement against its scientific viability then it is a weak one . Many technologies , biological ones included , can take a long time to develop . Certainly , the adult repair stem cells that are mentioned in your articles may have their uses and sound as if they also deserve research money . However , one can not just listen to one side of the story to make a decision . The scientists researching repair stem cells , patients who benefited from them , and doctors who use them are obviously going to sing its praises when it does introduce some gain . However , the embryonic stem cells might have even more potential , given the time and money to develop the technology . So , unless you can show me evidence that embryonic stem cells will never achieve their potential or that repair stem cells can achieve everything that embryonic stem cells are hoped to achieve , then your arguement against embryonic stem cell research continues to be unconvincing .""",DISAGREE,"""scientism on the other hand has an agenda in supporting the pro-choice contingent they do n't care about objectivity , truth , right ... wrong ... evidence , fact , reason , common sense , clinical trials . All they care about is their agenda , abortion on demand .""","""The only arguement I hear from these links against embryonic stem cell research is that , in ten years , it has n't yielded sufficient results for human trials .""",,
4020,1062,"""The partial birth abortion is rare , but it is not always used to save the mother 's life . At any rate , I may seem radical , but even if it is to save the mother 's life I think it should be disallowed , as it is a very cruel preocedure . Would you do that to a born baby ? Of course not . It 's very sickening that the so called `` land of the free `` would allow such a murderous procedure to be done .""","""That 's just great . You think it is cruel to abort a fetus when the life of the mother is in danger . So what your really saying is : `` Oh just let the chick die , save that baby `` . It strikes me as strange that you do n't think letting that woman die would be cruel , or that the baby growing up without his mother would be cruel . And there would be no reason to do it to a `` born baby `` . If they are already born , you can not perform an abortion . And I think it is sickening that in this so called `` land of the free `` that there would even be an argument against an abortion done to prevent the death of the mother , or abortions done in the case of rape . I would think that the land of the free and the right to choose would go hand in hand . And let me ask you , with your demented , self righteous views , do you celebrate your birth date or your conception date ?""",DISAGREE,"""even if it is to save the mother 's life I think it should be disallowed""","""You think it is cruel to abort a fetus when the life of the mother is in danger .""",,
4030,1065,"""And then we point to Israel , where armed teachers have been responsible for a considerable drop in school shootings""","""Evidence ?""",DISAGREE,"""And then we point to Israel , where armed teachers have been responsible for a considerable drop in school shootings""","""Evidence ?""",,
4045,1067,"""My main issue is with the single common ancestor model and the only other viable explanation for the origin of life on earth , creationsim .""","""But what form of creationism ? Who 's god ? Are you going to limit the age of the earth to 6,000 years and have a magic being do it all in 6 days ? Why do n't you specify what form of creationism you advocate ?""",DISAGREE,"""and the only other viable explanation for the origin of life on earth , creationsim""","""Why do n't you specify what form of creationism you advocate ?""",,
4057,1069,"""Should it be legalized ? Only if every other country did it Is it harmful ? Yes more so then moderate alcohol use and worse then smoking Should it be taxed once legalized ? Yes . Should laws still apply to it , such as DUIs and the like ? Yes .""","""America isnot supposed to be a copy off of all the other countrys , and it shouldnt . Just because its the popular law that something should or should not be done does not mean that it is the right law . In fact , if you knew anything about your own country , it was made FOR the freedoms which the rest of the world lacked , and slowly those freedoms are being taken away . And as for the harm ... More harmful then tobacco ? Where did you get this ? Give some proof to back yourself up . The fact is , the THC in marijuana reduces the effects of cancer to the point that cancerous sicknesses coming from the marijuana ( that means the weed itself- it doesnt include tobacco-caused cancer , etc ) to a point that it would take 200 years to die from . Otherwise , it would take about 20,000 pounds of marijuana smoked in fifteen minutes to die from , which is due to the thickness of the smoke , not what the smoke came from .""",DISAGREE,"""Only if every other country did it Is it harmful ? Yes more so then moderate alcohol use and worse then smoking Should it be taxed once legalized ?""","""The fact is , the THC in marijuana reduces the effects of cancer to the point that cancerous sicknesses coming from the marijuana ( that means the weed itself- it doesnt include tobacco-caused cancer ,""",,
4073,1072,"""It was the queen of the sciences because people were generally brainwashed by the church and scientifically ignorant untill that point . It was not untill the solidification of the SM and more modern systems and tools that the true bogus nature of theology ( a laughable science ) was revealed .""","""In fact , the period when theology was the `` queen of the sciences `` we generally refer to as the `` dark ages. `` Science in the modern sense is only about 400 years old . You can get a hint of how the `` queen of the sciences `` operated by the fact that Copernicus ( a priest ) withheld publication of his heliocentric theory until he was quite certain that he was close to death ; in fact , legend has it that he saw the first copy on the morning of his death . He knew what the consequences of his theory , that flew in the face of the geocentric dogma of the `` queen of the sciences `` , would be . Giordano Bruno and Galileo both found out the consequences of stating theories that were in conflict with the `` queen of the sciences. `` Only when science broke free of the domination by the Church were scientists free to follow the data to the conclusions rather than begin with the conclusions did real science develop and begin to develope real scientific theories . '' Creation science `` still begins with the conclusions and then tries to find data that will fit the dogma , even if it is sometimes contradictory . In `` creation science `` there is no hyopthesis , no prediction , and not test with the power to falsify the hypothesis . '' Creation science `` is pseudoscience .""",DISAGREE,"""queen of the sciences brainwashed by the church scientifically ignorant bogus nature of theology""","""the period when theology was the `` queen of the sciences `` we generally refer to as the `` dark ages. `` Copernicus ( a priest ) withheld publication of his heliocentric theory until he was quite certain that he was close to death `` Only when science broke free of the domination by the Church were scientists free to follow the data to the conclusions rather than begin with the conclusions did real science develop and begin to develope real scientific theories . '' pseudoscience""",,
4095,1078,"""Does anyone know how Carbon Dating Works ?""","""Sure , here ya go ... Radiocarbon Dating""",AGREE,"""Does anyone know""","""Sure , here ya go""",,
4100,1079,"""I wish you could put your hands on that poll as well . Until then I 'll remain skeptical . Let 's remember that Democrats and liberals hunt . Remove that group and what 's left ? Something less than 20 % of Americans that own only handguns .""","""I think you mean to say is hunters not liberal democrat hunters . Actualy I know of very few hunters that only have rifles or shot guns they usualy also have pistols to since you can hunt with them also .""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's remember that Democrats and liberals hunt""","""I think you mean to say is hunters not liberal democrat hunters .""",,
4135,1085,"""Creation science presents the idea that genesis in every detail is just as solid a science as any other . Do `` creation scientists `` actually beleive they can trick new people or is it an attempt to keep the converts .""","""Creationists need to latch on to the intellectual integrity of science . They know that if they can represent their claims as `` scientific `` , many people who otherwise would ignore them will pay attention to their incredible claims . To put it crudely , the creationists seek a ride on the science bandwagon .""",DISAGREE,"""Creation science presents the idea that genesis in every detail is just as solid a science as any other""","""Creationists need to latch on to the intellectual integrity of science .""",,
4134,1085,"""Creation science presents the idea that genesis in every detail is just as solid a science as any other . Do `` creation scientists `` actually beleive they can trick new people or is it an attempt to keep the converts .""","""Creationists need to latch on to the intellectual integrity of science . They know that if they can represent their claims as `` scientific `` , many people who otherwise would ignore them will pay attention to their incredible claims . To put it crudely , the creationists seek a ride on the science bandwagon .""",DISAGREE,"""Creation science presents the idea that genesis in every detail is just as solid a science as any other . Do `` creation scientists `` actually beleive they can trick new people or is it an attempt to keep the converts .""","""Creationists need to latch on to the intellectual integrity of science . They know that if they can represent their claims as `` scientific `` , many people who otherwise would ignore them will pay attention to their incredible claims .""",,
4143,1087,"""The book `` Icons of Evolution `` details the original experiment and the resultant controversy over the fraudulant findings .""","""Oh . Then you 're just a dupe rather than being dishonest . Your information comes from a moonie . Funny that the Discovery Institute does n't mention that . The fact that he decided to study biology with the express purpose of disproving evolution . So he had made up his mind that it was wrong before he undertook to find out what is was . Wells was encouraged by the Rev . Moon . He is known selective presentation of data .""",DISAGREE,"""details the original experiment and the resultant controversy""","""you 're just a dupe rather than being dishonest""",,
4169,1098,"""Let 's not deal with assumptions , Monty , although I do n't think that 's the word you mean . Cite precisely where Dembski has published an application of his explanatory filter which has detected design in nature . Let 's progress from you referring to a second hand report to the actual published paper .""","""Oh , WJA , what a neat little trick . The claim had been made by your side ... that he had n't published an attempt to apply his filter . And , that he was running scarred . Are you now asking me to show where he has successfully demonstrated his filter , or are you asking me if he 's attempted to demonstrate his filter ... ? And now you want his publication in a particular form too ! Another slight of hand . Despite this I countered that he has published . I said Dembski had come up with a filter The accusation was that he had n't applied this to a biological system . Yet everyone seems to be able to critique this 'invisible ' application . Now with typical aplomb WJA chimes in and you do n't go down the path of SLP in actually making any claim . You want me to come up with the goods . This is the neat trick . You 've diverted things away from SLP 's ludicrous and biased claim . The claim was made by SLP without any proof . The onus is on SLP to provide such proof . I have shown otherwise even if it is 'second hand evidence ' . The inference from all the critiques quite clearly suggest that they have seen it applied , and reject it as a failure . Nice try WJA . A small shift again of the argument . However , because I 'm trying to educate you I suggest your read the following . '' In the actual encounter , Dembski began by overviewing his methods for design detection as developed in The Design Inference . He then sketched how these methods apply to biology and why he thought they provided in-principle objections to undirected natural causes , including Kauffman 's self-organizational processes , generating the key item that his methods detect , namely , specified complexity or complex specified information . Dembski developed his argument as follows : the only way for self-organizational , Darwinian , and other naturalistic methods to generate specified complexity is by in essence dissolving the actual complexity ( or improbability ) . What seems highly improbable is therefore no longer improbable once one knows the right naturalistic process . Dembski indicated that there were good reasons to think that no such reduction of complexity or improbability would be possible in the case of systems like the bacterial flagellum . He also adverted to some of the techniques developed in his forthcoming book titled `` No Free Lunch `` for computing the probabilities of discrete combinatorial objects like the bacterial flagellum. `` http : //www.arn.org/docs/pjweekly/pj_weekly_011119.htm This suggests that a book is about to appear mysteriously out of the ether ... So , go read the book `` No Free Lunch : Why Specified Complexity Can not Be Purchased Without Intelligence `` . Unless you think it 's not 'published ' . Oh , look it has been published ! It 's a miracle . As far back as post 29 the answer was provided for one and all by SLP who wrote : `` Unfortunately , Dembski and his `` explanatory `` filter are more hot air than substance . He has claiming to have 'discovered ' desing ( sic ) in nature by using the 'filter ' , but for some strange reason , he has yet to publish his amazing discovery . he said he was going to do it in `` Mere Creation `` , then he said it would be iun ( sic ) No Free Lunch - so tell us , IS IT actually in his newest collection of apocryphal tall tales , or is is ( sic ) just assumed that he has done so ? `` The simple answer is 'yes he has ' . This mystery book exists . It 's even been criticised by people on your side `` In his book , No Free Lunch , Dembski presents the bacterial flagellum as the premier example of a biological system that , because he judges it to be both complex and specified , must have been actualized by the form-conferring action of an unembodied intelligent agent . However , a critical examination of Dembski ? s case reveals that , 1 ) is is built on unorthodox and inconsistently applied definitions of both ? complex ? and ? specified , ? 2 ) it employs a concept of the flagellum ? s assembly that is radically out of touch with contemporary genetics and developmental biology , and 3 ) it fails to demonstrate that the flagellum is either ? complex ? or ? specified ? in the manner required to make his case . If the bacterial flagellum is supposed to demonstrate ID , then ID is a failure. `` http : //www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimate ... =1 ; t=000057 ; p= As I said , people on your side are out there criticising him all the time . How could they unless he had published ? Also , it is one thing to say that he has n't attempted to apply the filter , then to say that he has attempted to apply it and failed . Game , set and match""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's progress from you referring to a second hand report to the actual published paper .""","""that he had n't published an attempt to apply his filter .""",,
4187,1103,"""I Should the Georgia General Assembly go back to law school or what ?""","""Maybe they did it on purpose ? They push through the amendment to quiet the RR while the issue is a hot botton topic , but make sure it 's unconstitutional so that it 'll get shot down . Just a thought .""",DISAGREE,"""I Should the Georgia General Assembly go back to law school""","""They push through the amendment to quiet the RR while the issue is a hot botton topic""",,
4203,1108,"""Other apes can also be taught these same concepts - to a more limited degree , sure , but then the related parts of their brain are smaller and less capable .""","""Yes Peeling ; you say this with such assurance , yet what you ca n't explain with any assurance is why only one offshoot of the Primate genus evolved into what human beings are today . Why only us , when we all allegedly started in the same environment with the same ecosystems putting the same pressures on us . What I 'm saying is that in every place where our alleged primate ancestors fossils have been found , so have n't the fossils of animals described as lower primates been found . So your explanation that one species evolved while another stagnated or died out rings hollow with me . Especially since you can actually prove absolutely none of this . Ca n't you see that Peeling ? None of this is provable .""",DISAGREE,"""the related parts of their brain are smaller and less capable""","""you ca n't explain with any assurance is why only one offshoot of the Primate genus evolved into what human beings are today""",,
4213,1113,"""i worry that the same law makers who push for registration are the same ones who want to ban all guns . for an example `` If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban , picking up every one of them , Mr. and Mrs. America , turn them all in , I would have done it. `` -Senator Dianne Feinstein , D-Calif , discussing the 1994 `` crime bill `` ,""","""So what . Congress can pass any law it wants . Does n't mean it will stand up in court . The first portion , `` A well regulated Militia , being necessary to the security of a free State , `` is a qualifier to what follows `` the right of the people to keep and bear Arms , shall not be infringed. `` It seems pretty clear to me . But I 'm not one of the Justices . This decision has been made , although I do n't like it or agree with it . I do n't see where today 's hobbyist meets the intent - most especially in the well-regulated part . But there comes a point where what the dead guys thought just does n't matter that much . It is 200+ years later . They left us with the ability to adjust with time and we 've done that . They recognized their own shortcomings which might have the the wisest thing they did . The current interpretation is clear . We look at the last portion of the statement only . I do n't think that , as I said before , a little common sense , is going to alter the interpretation in any meaningful way . After all , I could easily argue ( if I was totally stupid ) that my front yard is the perfect place for a working cannon . We both know that is n't going to fly . Just where does the armament argument end . With a cannon ? Or with a Nuc . Let 's face it . They said arms and they meant arms . Not guns . They 'd probably let me have the cannon . The founding fathers never envisioned the kind of weapons we 'd have available today or what they 'd be used for . That 's why their thoughts are purposely criptic and open ended . Since we will always draw the line someplace , why not draw it at a good compromise between you and me .""",AGREE,"""i worry that the same law makers who push for registration are the same ones who want to ban all guns""","""They said arms and they meant arms . Not guns . They 'd probably let me have the cannon . The founding fathers never envisioned the kind of weapons we 'd have available today or what they 'd be used for . That 's why their thoughts are purposely criptic and open ended . Since we will always draw the line someplace , why not draw it at a good compromise between you and me .""",,
4216,1114,"""And do n't you find it significant that a gun , a symbol and tool of violence , can raise levels of testosterone ? What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior ? Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering :""","""So Starguy since you are obviously afraid of guns and wo n't go near , you do n't have to worry about any `` violent testosterone 's `` but if you want to be friendlier well you know how to do it . OUCH .""",DISAGREE,"""you find it significant that a gun , a symbol and tool of violence , can raise levels of testosterone ?""","""you are obviously afraid of guns and wo n't go near , you do n't have to worry about any `` violent testosterone 's ``""",,
4247,1120,"""There 's no mention of gays in the constitution . Our agenda is incorporation and equal treatment . What 's yours ? You seem to forget we already tried this standard . And it 's for this reason that the 14th Amendment came into existence ; because allowing local communities to disregard the constitution on the basis that it did n't apply to them , was a massive failure and outright racist .""","""We 've already been over this and again you 're confusing two separate issues . I think everyone is agreed that people no matter what race are entitled to equal protection under the law .""",DISAGREE,"""There 's no mention of gays in the constitution .""","""We 've already been over this and again you 're confusing two separate issues .""",,
4253,1122,"""You 're an XXXXX who has obviously never worked ina first responder category . If you think that increasing the volume and social acceptance of drug use to the same level of alcohol will 'solve ' anything , then you are just an XXXXX . You have obviously never seen whart drug abuse does to families and people 's lives . You 're right , alcohol is worse , and the main reason its worse is because of 2 reasons , volume and availability ala social acceptance . Legalizing all drugs would have catastrophic social impacts . Do n't feed me that line about taxing it and using the money for rehab . We have taxed the XXXX out of tobacco and alcohol the last 100 years and the last time I checked alcoholism and lung cancer had n't been erradicated .""","""First of all , the government can not increase the volume and social acceptance of a drug - only the market and society can do that . Government can not even decrease the volume or social acceptance of drugs - despite the government 's efforts , drug use has remained relatively constant . What has n't remained constant is violent crime , which has gone up during the drug war as it did during alcohol prohibition .""",DISAGREE,"""you think that increasing the volume and social acceptance of drug use to the same level of alcohol will 'solve ' anything , then you are just an XXXXX .""","""First of all , the government can not increase the volume and social acceptance of a drug -""",,
4265,1126,"""Unaware of what are state and federal laws , and now unaware of the liberal party 's own message .""","""There 's no such thing as the `` Liberal Party `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Unaware of what are state and federal laws , and now unaware of the liberal party 's own message .""","""There 's no such thing as the `` Liberal Party `` .""",,
4269,1127,"""we simply do not evolve , there is no scientific proof just ideas which change from day to day that also explain our siciety today .""","""But there is evidence that we do evolve . I 'll give you an example . In areas of west Africa where malaria is endemic there is an allele of hemoglobin that confers resistance when heterozygous . In other environments that allele is not beneficial and is , in fact , deleterious . It is fatal when homozygous . Now according to evolutionary theory such an allele should decline where it offers no benefit . Studies show that this allele is less frequent by about 2 percentage points in Americans of west African ancestry .""",DISAGREE,"""we simply do not evolve ,""","""But there is evidence that we do evolve .""",,
4271,1128,""".... that would probably help me make quite popular , which would help me reproduce .... however this trait has not arisen yet .... why not ?""","""Please stop demonstrating your complete inability to understand evolutionary theory . How is Texas Stadium meaningful in the population of the earth ? Do various blimp pilots who soar over Texas Stadium have better sexual success than you ? You seem to be a bit of a sad sack .""",DISAGREE,""". that would probably help me make quite popular , which would help me reproduce .... however this trait has not arisen yet .... why not ?""","""Do various blimp pilots who soar over Texas Stadium have better sexual success than you ?""",,
4280,1129,"""And it is much easier to have an abortion than to be a mother .""","""It 's usually easier to take the immoral path . Stealing 's easier than working . Lying 's easier than telling the truth . Being a deadbeat parent is easier than being a good parent . The list goes on and on .""",DISAGREE,"""abortion than to be a mother""","""easier to take the immoral path""",,
4297,1130,"""Not all women are the same . And , your attitude is very offensive if you believe that all women must carry an enormous burden of guilt if they have an abortion .""","""Yes , and since some might not , it should not be mentioned at all ? Personally I only know a half dozen people who have had abortions ( at least that I know if ) . 1 of them does n't care , she has had 6 or 8 abortions ... pretty much used them instead of the pill . 2 are pro life zealots now and feel terrible about the fact they had aboortions . 2 are pro life , but not zealots . The final one was overwhelming pro choice prior to her abortion . Attended rallies and everything . SHE felt so bad about havinghte abortion afterwards that 6 months later she blew her head off . She could not get it out of her head that she had killed a baby . She became totally obsessed and finally cracked . So , yea ... maybe it is not so out of line for people , including men , to say `` Think about it real hard because a lot of people regret it `` . You do n't have to get shot to know it hurts .""",DISAGREE,"""Not all women are the same""","""Yes , and since some might not , it should not be mentioned at all ?""",,
4293,1130,"""Not all women are the same . And , your attitude is very offensive if you believe that all women must carry an enormous burden of guilt if they have an abortion .""","""Yes , and since some might not , it should not be mentioned at all ? Personally I only know a half dozen people who have had abortions ( at least that I know if ) . 1 of them does n't care , she has had 6 or 8 abortions ... pretty much used them instead of the pill . 2 are pro life zealots now and feel terrible about the fact they had aboortions . 2 are pro life , but not zealots . The final one was overwhelming pro choice prior to her abortion . Attended rallies and everything . SHE felt so bad about havinghte abortion afterwards that 6 months later she blew her head off . She could not get it out of her head that she had killed a baby . She became totally obsessed and finally cracked . So , yea ... maybe it is not so out of line for people , including men , to say `` Think about it real hard because a lot of people regret it `` . You do n't have to get shot to know it hurts .""",DISAGREE,"""Not all women are the same . And , your attitude is very offensive if you believe that all women must carry an enormous burden of guilt if they have an abortion .""","""Yes , and since some might not , it should not be mentioned at all ? 1 of them does n't care , she has had 6 or 8 abortions ... pretty much used them instead of the 2 are pro life zealots now and feel terrible about the fact they had aboortions . 2 are pro life , but not The final one was overwhelming pro choice prior to her abortion . Attended rallies and SHE felt so bad about havinghte abortion afterwards that 6 months later she blew her head off . She could not get it out of her head that she had killed a So , yea ... maybe it is not so out of line for people , including men , to say `` Think about it real hard because a lot of people regret it `` . You do n't have to get shot to know it hurts .""",,
4301,1131,"""Cosmic Evolution : the origin of time , space , and matter , i.e . the Big Bang""","""Well it came from somewhere and presumably changed as it went along .""",AGREE,"""Cosmic Evolution : the origin of time , space , and matter ,""","""it came from somewhere and presumably changed as it went along .""",,
4309,1131,"""Cosmic Evolution : the origin of time , space , and matter , i.e . the Big Bang""","""Well it came from somewhere and presumably changed as it went along .""",AGREE,"""the origin of time , space , and matter , i.e . the Big Bang""","""Well it came from somewhere and presumably changed as it went along""",,
4312,1132,"""My argument that a `` human individual 's life biologically begins at conception `` is not an `` assumption. `` It is a conclusion reached by an in depth study of the facts and references available . Please do n't malign my position this way again as I will not attempt to malign yours .""","""Apologies , that was n't my intention . My meaning was this ; while it was your conclusion , your use of it as an unsupported 'fact ' forced us to treat it as an assumption . We had no way by which we could make it a conclusion - that 's the purpose of this thread !""",DISAGREE,"""My argument that a `` human individual 's life biologically begins at conception `` is not an ``""","""Apologies , that was n't my intention . My meaning was this ;""",,
4329,1133,"""Pointing out some of the achievements of science which could not have been accomplished in any other way , is not `` raising science on a pedestal `` - it 's merely reciting the obvious .""","""Straw man . I am not attacking the achievements of science . I am attacking the notion that you have that scientists are exempt from the catalogue of influences that affect everyone else ; with only the slightest admission of a tiny possibility of cultural influence - which was quickly dismissed anyway with the false analogy of comparing evolution to aeronautical engineering .""",DISAGREE,"""raising science on a pedestal `` - it 's merely reciting the obvious .""","""which was quickly dismissed anyway with the false analogy of comparing evolution to aeronautical engineering .""",,
4360,1138,"""`` If the Founding Fathers could read the Ninth Circuit 's opinion , they would be cheering , `` said Mr. Henigan . '' By so forcefully challenging the perversion of the Second Amendment by those who seek to dismantle our gun laws , the Court has honored the Framers and their Constitution. ``""","""http : //www.bradycampaign.org/press/r ... asp ? Record=442""",DISAGREE,"""the Founding Fathers could read the Ninth Circuit 's opinion , they would be cheering""","""http : //www.bradycampaign.org/press/r ... asp ? Record=442""",,
4389,1143,"""Life begins at the point of conception . No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue .""","""Why conception ? When a mature ovum leaves the ovary , it has every potential of turning into a human being . How dare I stand idly by while that potential life is wasted , unfertilized ? No ; clearly , it is my duty to try to reach that ovum with my seed . God said to be fruitful and multiply , so I am just following God 's will .""",DISAGREE,"""Life begins at conception No one can deny human being will develop""","""Why conception ? has every potential How dare I stand idly by potential life is wasted unfertilized ? No clearly it is my duty to try to reach that ovum with my seed""",,
4400,1144,"""Why Tester , do n't you point out his straw-man which this thread is based upon ?""","""Because I think you misinterpreted his point . See below :""",DISAGREE,"""Why Tester , do n't you point out his straw-man which this thread is based upon ?""","""Because I think you misinterpreted his point .""",,
4405,1144,"""Why Tester , do n't you point out his straw-man which this thread is based upon ?""","""Because I think you misinterpreted his point . See below :""",DISAGREE,"""point out his straw-man which this thread is based upon""","""you misinterpreted his point .""",,
4431,1147,"""Would you have supported the `` freedom `` for Hitler and his cronies to own guns in 1932 ? Mao in 1947-48 ? Because those freedoms directly led to the abrogation of the ultimate right -- the right to life -- for at least 30 million people . Gun control is NOT about a government trying to disarm a people so that government can be tyrannical .""","""You could n't make an association like this to save your life . Hitler gained power by deception much like what is happening now . The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising ( google it ) puts to rest any claim you have made about Hitler . He did disarm Jews , Gypsies and others he was afraid of because they did not support him . He also had some weird features you share like torturing and burning helpless creatures ! People can not be tyrannical by definition . Check it out ! Your claim is dismissed for want of cause and no true stated claim .""",DISAGREE,"""Would you have supported the `` freedom `` for Hitler and his cronies to own guns in 1932 ? Mao in 1947-48 ?""","""Your claim is dismissed for want of cause and no true stated claim .""",,
4439,1148,"""One question I would like to get answered is should the US have an amendment against adultery ? I think this dose a lot more harm to the  “ sanctity and value of marriage ” Just had to put in my $ .02 , and would you all let me know if there is ever a good answer ?""","""Question is what sort of punishment would you have for adultery if there was an amendment ? Financial , already their in divorce . Are you going to lock adulterer up ?""",DISAGREE,"""should the US have an amendment against adultery ?""","""what sort of punishment would you have for adultery if there was an amendment ? Are you going to lock adulterer up ?""",,
4445,1150,"""you notice evolution never definite ages . they say from 5million to 35 million . they never are sure . wan na know why cause its A LIE . ITS FAKE . NOT TRUE . ALL CRAZY MAD SCIENTISTS WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO !""","""In an attempt to educate : Not at all , my dear Bushy . It is because smart people these days are clever enough not to lock themselves into claiming something which will later be proven to be false . They give us guidelines and theories , which by their definition can be changed to suit the facts we have to hand . Benjamin : If Mizzmaxx 's points are so easily refuted , then please , be my guest and refute them .""",DISAGREE,"""you notice evolution never definite ages . they say from 5million to 35 million . they never are sure . wan na know why cause its A LIE .""","""It is because smart people these days are clever enough not to lock themselves into claiming something which will later be proven to be false . They give us guidelines and theories , which by their definition can be changed to suit the facts we have to hand .""",,
4487,1167,"""If abortion is made illegal I predict that you will see across the border abortion clinics , in canada and states that still premit abortion . Are we to fill the prisons with those seeking abortions in places where it is legal if they live in states that do not allow abortions ? Prolifers better becare for what they wish for . Prolifers tend to be conservative and do not like taxes . They better get ready to pay , in taxes , for the extra prisons and social programs needed for all those abandoned children .""","""Re : Are we to fill the prisons ? -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Quote : Originally Posted by Gilluin If abortion is made illegal I predict that you will see across the border abortion clinics , in canada and states that still premit abortion . Are we to fill the prisons with those seeking abortions in places where it is legal if they live in states that do not allow abortions ? Prolifers better becare for what they wish for . Prolifers tend to be conservative and do not like taxes . They better get ready to pay , in taxes , for the extra prisons and social programs needed for all those abandoned children . I would gladly double my taxes to help save the weak and the unborn . Better idea though instead of locking up the women/men seeking termination and euthanasia why not lock up the obs/gyno/ and doctors that carry out theses procedures ? Pro life is NOT just about termination of pregnancies .""",DISAGREE,"""Are we to fill the prisons with those seeking abortions ?""","""why not lock up the obs/gyno/ and doctors that carry out theses procedures ?""",,
4488,1168,"""and there is really little ( if any ) common intellectual ground on which Creationism and Scientific Materialism can meet .""","""That is a truism . Who says that scientific materialism need be the only measure of scientific truth ?""",DISAGREE,"""there is really little ( if any ) common intellectual ground on which Creationism and Scientific Materialism can meet""","""That is a truism .""",,
4496,1169,"""To be constantly told I 've been defeated by pseudo intellectuals who constantly claim victories when there is absolutely nothing to be gained from debating here shows just how lacking of any actual intelligence you people possess . But you sure feel smart after patting each other on your sanctimonious backs after convincing yourselves that what you know is actually correct when it is no more correct in reality than your warped and very corrupted World views . I will proudly stand alone against your combined self perceived intellect , and most importantly , I will confidently place my beliefs against yours at the end of this life when the true answers to the questions we debate will finally be known . And at that time , this ignorant christian will be standing tall in his knowledge as you all regret everything you have ever believed in your lives .""","""Just wondering if you are going to respond to the OP ( as it was addressed to you to help you to understand something ) . If you ask me I 'd just ignore the negative comments that some posters make toward you . Just focus onexplanations of misunderstandings and constructive criticism .""",AGREE,"""will confidently place my beliefs against yours at the end of this life""","""Just wondering if you are going to respond to the OP""",,
4503,1178,"""This is also a highly controversial issue , and it is not right to forcibly subject a minor to the political views of her parents""","""I 've heard this type of statment before and it does n't seem to hold water . Opposing abortion is not a political view , its a moral view and children are subject to their parents moral views from day one until they are adults . Its called parenting .""",DISAGREE,"""it is not right to forcibly subject a minor to the political views of her parents""","""it does n't seem to hold Opposing abortion is not a political view , its a moral view and children are subject to their parents moral views""",,
4521,1182,"""When I watch the news , and see someone interviewed , I 'm always mildly irritated by the little caption they attach : `` Joe Bloggs , smoker `` ; `` Jane Middlemiss , motorist `` - like these titles somehow define the person . Stenger is a person , who has personally come to certain conclusions by using his brain and the scientific method . I 'm quite sure he is convinced by the evidence supporting evolution - so what ? So 's Jyoshu .""","""But what he is doing is taking evolution ( considered a `` fact `` ) adding it to a theory ( there is no god ) and trying to convice his reader that he has added ; fact + theory = fact . Evolution seems to do that in it 's subcatagories . How do we distinguish the difference between the validity of when it 's done in a subcatagory vs when it 's done concerning the general term ? Do you get equally irritatied by the little captions under the names of Kent Hovind , or Michael Behe , or Ben Stein , or William Dembski ? Why the double standard ? Why not let them be individuals also ? Why not let them come to certain conclusions without attacking captions , or ideologies ? Why the fear in letting future generations be exposed to their path of thinking ?""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm quite sure he is convinced by the evidence supporting so what ?""","""what he is doing is taking evolution adding it to a theory and trying to his reader that he has added ; fact + theory = fact . ,""",,
4529,1185,"""But what I do know for certain is that evolution , abiogenisis , and the assumptions made by Geologists about the age of the Earth and biologists about macro-evolution is very wrong and unreliable . That much I do know and can not compromise on .""","""So you 're going to live with the Amish eh ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do know for certain is that evolution , abiogenisis , and the assumptions made by Geologists about the age of the Earth and biologists about macro-evolution is very wrong and unreliable .""","""So you 're going to live with the Amish eh ?""",,
4546,1192,"""I am not calling anyone on this board or any other specific evolutionist a racist .""","""No , of course not . Instead , you call us `` liberals `` and then call liberals racist .""",DISAGREE,"""I am not calling anyone on this board or any other specific evolutionist a racist .""","""No , of course not . Instead , you call us `` liberals `` and then call liberals racist .""",,
4551,1193,"""I am even prohibited by law from performing a background check .""","""Not if you have permission to do one from the buyer . If I sold a firearm , and did n't know the person so well , I would do one . I have contacts in businesses who can do them for me for free . Its just a smart thing to do . Should it be the law ? No way . But I would do it . Better safe than sorry in this instance .""",DISAGREE,"""I am even prohibited by law from performing a background check .""","""Not if you have permission to do one from the buyer . I""",,
4576,1198,"""See above . A lock can create doubt about the ease of entry into a residence . Many criminals move from door to door until they find one that is unlocked , rather than drawing undue attention by smashing one in .""","""I say that you need to take into consideration the number of criminals that 'll disregard the lock and try and break down the door anyway . That 's why smart people do n't rely exclusively on locks and security systems for their own protection .""",DISAGREE,"""Many criminals move from door to door until they find one that is unlocked""","""I say that you need to take into consideration the number of criminals""",,
4575,1198,"""See above . A lock can create doubt about the ease of entry into a residence . Many criminals move from door to door until they find one that is unlocked , rather than drawing undue attention by smashing one in .""","""I say that you need to take into consideration the number of criminals that 'll disregard the lock and try and break down the door anyway . That 's why smart people do n't rely exclusively on locks and security systems for their own protection .""",DISAGREE,"""A lock can create doubt about the ease of entry into a residence . Many criminals move from door to door until they find one that is unlocked , rather than drawing undue attention by smashing one in .""","""I say that you need to take into consideration the number of criminals that 'll disregard the lock and try and break down the door anyway .""",,
4582,1199,"""I 'm not saying parents should have control over the kids life , but when they are children , they should guide them . Some kids go through school , and do n't know anything about god , at all .""","""And it is n't the job of the school to teach anyone about your god . That is the job of the parents . If it is a good idea to teach about your god in the public school , it is also a good idea to teach about mine . How about Wicca and Islam . A good idea , right ? But if some creationists do n't like their children learning science , then they should put them in their own `` christian `` schools where they can become scientific illiterates who think that heliocentrism is a fact .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not saying parents should have control over the kids life ,""","""And it is n't the job of the school to teach anyone about your god""",,
4583,1200,"""So gun owners are being discriminated for `` who they are. `` I guess you could put it that way . You could also say that violent killers and serial rapists are being discriminated against for `` who they are. `` By the way , I support gay marriage but do n't support the mayor 's actions .""","""I believe that this is what they call 'sarcasm ' . As for the second part of your comment , why am I not surprised ?""",DISAGREE,"""So gun owners are being discriminated for `` who they . violent killers and serial rapists are being discriminated against for `` who they `` By the way , I support gay marriage but do n't support the mayor 's actions .""","""I believe that this is what they call 'sarcasm ' . As for the second part of your comment , why am I not surprised ?""",,
4588,1201,"""To sacrifice the life of a mother in that situation to the life of a fertilized egg , an embryo , a fetus , is a heinous , anti-life crime .""","""what is your basis for this ? You said :""",DISAGREE,"""To sacrifice the life of a mother in that situation to the life of a fertilized egg""","""what is your basis for this ? You said :""",,
4626,1208,"""See , here you 've seperated mind , spirit , soul . The bible did n't do this , unless Zechariah is being misinterpreted . It basically said , in your interpretation , that the spirit and the soul are the same thing .""","""Yes , it is very hard , even for theologians , to explain .""",AGREE,"""spirit and the soul are the same""","""Yes""",,
4649,1212,"""Pro-choice at least lets people decide what is best from them and the child . Can you honestly say it is better for a child to be born and mistreated and/or under fed until it dies than it is for a child to simply be aborted ?""","""Ok , so you are admitting that the unborn fetus , is in fact , a child ? I have to believe that is what you mean from your statement above . That being the case , do you condone the killing of a child that is born but will likely live in poverty the rest of his or her life ? Do you condone the killing of a handicapped child that is born ? If not , then you ca n't condone abortion . Also , who gives you the right to decide what is best for a child by killing him or her ? That should not be your choice ( this is another problem with humanism , because there is no moral authority to stop people from doing whatever they want to do , hence the adage that humanism is a philosophy that has both feet planted firmly in mid-air ) . I am sure the child would n't agree to that choice if given a voice to do so . Let 's go ahead and do it your way by taking religion out of law . Is murder still illegal in your humanistic world ? Likely it is still illegal because even humanists realize that anarchy is not suitable for society . Then why is this not murder ? Look back to effects this has on women . That is also bad for society . And that affects us all .""",DISAGREE,"""Can you honestly say it is better for a child to be born and mistreated and/or under fed until it dies than it is for a child to simply be aborted ?""","""That being the case , do you condone the killing of a child that is born but will likely live in poverty the rest of his or her life ? Do you condone the killing of a handicapped child that is born ?""",,
4655,1214,"""http : //creationwiki.org/Chinese_char ... r_Noah % 27s_ark""","""They 'll also ignore these other historical records of the flood Randy . Because they must in order to hold on to their secular belief system . Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life""",DISAGREE,"""http : //creationwiki.org/Chinese_char ... r_Noah % 27s_ark""","""Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life""",,
4662,1215,"""I 'm confused . What exactly is the difference between a civil union and a marriage . From what I have found , they are identical with the exception of one is religious and the other secular . Is there a larger legal difference ?""","""There is a pretty huge difference . Civil unions are n't nationally recognized , for one thing , since not every state has them . If you travel to a state that does not offer civil unions , then your union is not valid there . I think there 's a problem with dissolving those unions as well . The big difference , though , are the rights that these unions provide . There are over 1,000 legal protections and rights that marriage provides that civil unions do n't . I 'll try and find a list of differences .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm confused . What exactly is the difference between a civil union and a marriage""","""There is a pretty huge difference . Civil unions are n't nationally recognized , for one thing , since not every state has them .""",,
4667,1216,"""I agree , no oath should be taken lightly . However , I believe that a certain amount of interpretation is essential , especially in grey areas that medicine can wander into . Abortion to save the life of the mother is a grey area that doctors have to wrestle with . Separating siamese twins where there is only one heart , allowing one to live while the other dies instead of both dying is a grey area . Following an oath such as that to the letter puts things too much in black and white , when a lot of good medicine happens in the shades of grey .""","""In the examples you gave , the doctor is clearly trying his * very best to save the most lives he can . What if the Siamese twins were in no mortal danger while together ? And what if one Siamese twin has legs but the other does n't ? Is n't the other twin dependent on the one with legs ? Could a doctor ethically remove the legless twin if the legged twin wanted to and if the legless twin was retarded and the procedure would leave the legless twin dead ? * ( or her best .. I 'm sorry but my doctor is male , so I will no longer use `` his/her `` or `` he/she `` ... it just gets tiring after a while ... )""",AGREE,"""I agree , no oath should be taken lightly . However , I believe that a certain amount of interpretation is""","""In the examples you gave , the doctor is clearly trying his * very best to save the most lives he can .""",,
4704,1227,"""Sooner or later it will come down to hand them over or else , like 50 cal . sniper rifles , ( never leave home with out one ) just a foot in the door . they ever come to my door their gon na lose some toes.http : //www.4forums.com/political/ima ... lies/xkill.gif""","""You are right unless some people find their backbones , and since it doesnt look like thats going to happen I guess the rest of us better grow an extra one .""",AGREE,"""they ever come to my door their gon na lose some""","""You are right unless some people find their backbones""",,
4712,1231,"""Archie 's projection complex strikes again ! Pretty much , we can take whatever Archie says and know that the truth is the precise opposite .""","""Sure you do . Because like any reprobate , what is wrong , is right to you ; and what is right , is wrong to you . So of course you consider anything i believe to be wrong . But just so my original statement is n't lost to your attack , here it is again so it can be clearly interpreted without your tainted condemnation . Archangel The ugly reality of life in America today regarding the secular humanist Left is that they support free speech as long as you agree with them . If you disagree with them , you are branded as a religious zealot who 's determined to take their rights away . What they do n't want you to ever realize is that it is they who are tearing at the traditions and customs that America was built upon and gained us the respect of the World at large . And it is their corruption of the morals and values America once represented that is the cause of so much hatred and disrespect from the rest of the World today . So thanks to the liberal immoral left , we are seen as the moral evil of the World . Not because of the Religious Right as the Left would have you believe .""",DISAGREE,"""we can take whatever Archie says and know that the truth is the precise opposite .""","""so my original statement is n't lost to your attack , here again so it can be clearly interpreted without your tainted condemnation .""",,
4718,1234,"""Similarly , every mutation that has ever occurred has had a definite proximate cause , and if we knew what they all were and what they would all be in the future , evolution would lie mapped out before us in all its detail . Nevertheless , in the absence of perfect knowledge of these individual causes we can still describe the occurrence of such events statistically , saying how long we might have to wait , or how many trials we might conduct in order to expect a given outcome . So to say that the evolution of the nylon bug , for instance , was based on chance is misleading : the evolution of the nylon bug was based on whatever proximate cause shuffled its DNA .""","""Invalid argument to assert that mutations can map a road outside of their assigned task in illogical , where would the information to do so come from ? Biology works because every individual cell doing what it was created to do along with what the one next to it was , though created to perform another set of instructions creates the molecular change that the combination of the cells together would produce . But there is no additional information there ... not int he way you assert .""",DISAGREE,"""if we knew what they all were and what they would all be in the . to say that the evolution of the nylon bug""","""Biology works because every individual cell doing what it was created to do along with what the one next to it was""",,
4732,1238,"""... or we could feed the criminals to the dinosaurs ! ... save the cows for meatloaf .""","""I think you and my ten year old could really connect . Happy Easter , Jim . You really are one of my favorite conservatives .""",DISAGREE,"""we could feed the criminals to the dinosaurs""","""you and my ten year old could really connect""",,
4739,1240,"""You missed the whole point of my story . I was not disgusted at the poor people I was disgusted at the government under a socialist mindset . I love poor people , heck I was one for a while ( and really kinda still am ) .""","""Oh , you have a problem with Socialism ? Is that so ?""",DISAGREE,"""I was not disgusted at the poor people I was disgusted at the government under a socialist mindset""","""you have a problem with Socialism ?""",,
4741,1241,"""This crushes ToE at the most fundamental level . I 've been telling this board for months that the gene is not the player in biological change that everyone thinks it is . The popultion has been told for decades that they are simply a culmination of their genes .""","""To be fair , that was always a poorly-framed and badly-lit pop-media snapshot of scientific thinking , and was propagated far more often in recent times by the opponents of evolution , such as yourself , than by any actual scientist .""",DISAGREE,"""they are simply a culmination of their genes .""","""poorly-framed and""",,
4759,1245,"""None that prove one became another . Of course dinos , birds , and fish exist and scientist study them -or their remains as with dinos .""","""Fish to Amphibian supporting evidence frmo here : Fish/Amphibian Transition from primitive bony fish to amphibians : Paleoniscoids again ( e.g . Cheirolepis ) Osteolepis -- one of the earliest crossopterygian lobe-finned fishes , still sharing some characters with the lungfish ( the other group of lobe-finned fish ) . Had paired fins with a leg-like arrangement of bones , and had an early-amphibian-like skull and teeth . Eusthenopteron ( and other rhipidistian crossopterygian fish ) -- intermediate between early crossopterygian fish and the earliest amphibians . Skull very amphibian-like . Strong amphibian-like backbone . Fins very like early amphibian feet . Icthyostegids ( such as Icthyostega and Icthyostegopsis ) -- Terrestrial amphibians with many of Eusthenopteron 's fish features ( e.g. , the fin rays of the tail were retained ) . Some debate about whether Icthyostega should be considered a fish or an amphibian ; it is an excellent transitional fossil . Labyrinthodonts ( e.g. , Pholidogaster , Pteroplax ) -- still have some icthyostegid features , but have lost many of the fish features ( e.g. , the fin rays are gone , vertebrae are stronger and interlocking , the nasal passage for air intake is well defined . ) And while nothing is ever proven 100 % in science , the link between fish and amphibians is pretty conclusive . Evidence for dino to bird evolution just keeps mounting and at present it is the best supported theory . Just look at the recent discovery of an oviraptorosaurian dinosaur with 2 eggs still in it 's body , two very bird like eggs ..... See here : dinoeggs So once again , while not proven 100 % , dino to bird evolution is the best supported theory . Do you have anything that is better supported ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""None that prove one became another .""","""while not proven 100 % , dino to bird evolution is the best supported theory""",,
4766,1247,"""2 ) Would you agree that the violinst argument only parallels abortion if we assume that the donor only needs to be connected for nine months , and no longer ?""","""Not in this instance , no . It isn ’ t trying to parallel pregnancy per se ( though it is most relevant for us if we take it as only 9 months ) , but trying to parallel the moral scenario of having a person attached to you against your will and without your consent . If the pro-life mantra is to be believed , it is never correct to disconnect someone if they will die if you do . So , the argument is applicable for 9 days , 9 months , 9 years or forever .""",DISAGREE,"""Would you agree parallels abortion donor only needs to be connected for nine months""","""Not in this instance It isn ’ t trying to parallel pregnancy the argument is applicable for 9 days , 9 months , 9 years or forever .""",,
4771,1248,"""i too ( like you ) wasted much time reading the bible and devoting my life to `` god `` . i started questioning early ( about 6th grade ) . i came to realize that most of the things i learned in my christian school were false .""","""Mehhh .... You probably went to a Catholic school . But now that you 've stopped 'devoting ' your 'life ' to the God of the Bible , you 've 'devoted ' yourself to another god , Yourself . Typical case .""",DISAGREE,"""came to realize that most of the things i learned in my christian school were false .""","""You probably went to a Catholic school .""",,
4770,1248,"""i too ( like you ) wasted much time reading the bible and devoting my life to `` god `` . i started questioning early ( about 6th grade ) . i came to realize that most of the things i learned in my christian school were false .""","""Mehhh .... You probably went to a Catholic school . But now that you 've stopped 'devoting ' your 'life ' to the God of the Bible , you 've 'devoted ' yourself to another god , Yourself . Typical case .""",DISAGREE,"""i came to realize that most of the things i learned in my christian school were false .""","""you 've 'devoted ' yourself to another god , Yourself . Typical case .""",,
4774,1249,"""All living systems appear to have some limited choice about how to respond . They respond in ways that are only statistically predictable .""","""So do electrons fired through the diffractive equivalent of a double slit . Individual unpredictability does not imply free will .""",DISAGREE,"""All living systems appear to have some limited choice about how to respond .""","""So do electrons fired through the diffractive equivalent of a double slit .""",,
4773,1249,"""All living systems appear to have some limited choice about how to respond . They respond in ways that are only statistically predictable .""","""So do electrons fired through the diffractive equivalent of a double slit . Individual unpredictability does not imply free will .""",DISAGREE,"""They respond in ways that are only statistically predictable .""","""Individual unpredictability does not imply free will .""",,
4777,1250,"""Why do you quote the Bible anyways if you can not even stand up to debate the arguments against it ? The Biblical Failures post shows enough reasons to just throw out the Bible as a reliable source IMO .""","""Again , perspective .""",DISAGREE,"""The Biblical Failures post shows enough reasons to just throw out the Bible as a reliable source IMO .""","""Again , perspective .""",,
4799,1255,"""And , if you were given that evidence , in what way would that change your opinion of homosexuality ?""","""I believe I said I would change my view . I will change my view on the issue of whether homosexuality is genetic .""",AGREE,"""what way would that change your opinion of homosexuality ?""","""I will change my view on the issue of whether homosexuality is genetic .""",,
4810,1258,"""GEOCHEMISTRY : Dating Service Radiocarbon dating is the preeminent method for determining the age of carbonaceous materials younger than about 50,000 years . The determination of accurate calendar ages from radiocarbon ages requires a calibration curve , though , because the production of 14C and its distribution between atmospheric , oceanic , and terrestrial carbon reservoirs both vary with time . Charged with the task of producing the official calibration curve for terrestrial radiocarbon dating , the IntCal working group has just released the latest version , IntCal04 . Reimer et al . present this new curve , which replaces the previous version that has been in effect since 1998 . IntCal04 extends the calibration backward by 2000 years , to 26,000 calendar years before the present ( cal yr B.P. , where the present is defined as 1950 ) , increases the resolution of the period earlier than 11,400 cal yr B.P. , and considers the uncertainty in both the calendar age and the 14C age in the calibration . Tree ring data contribute the bulk of the ages in the interval between today and 12,400 cal yr B.P. , and marine data from corals and foraminifera provide the calibration for samples older than 12,400 years . Associated papers in the same issue describe the details of this impressive and valuable achievement . -- HJS Radiocarbon 46 , 1029 ( 2005 ) .""","""So how can evilutionists have any confidence in carbon dating if they keep updating the calibration curve ? Huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""GEOCHEMISTRY : Dating Service Radiocarbon dating is the preeminent method for determining the age of carbonaceous materials younger than about 50,000 years""","""So how can evilutionists have any confidence in carbon dating if they keep updating the calibration curve ? Huh ?""",,
4837,1264,"""This is a good site , but very atheist I think . Do you know of a good theistic equivalent ? I do not mean like those awful websites that misrepresent science to try and shoehorn the world into their Bible stories ( sorry to pick on Christians here , but it is Christian ones that I notice ) , but ones that look at real science and look to see if a theistic explaination works for things ?""","""Since evolution is a non-theistic theory ( it does not consider if there is a god or not ) , you will have to look at some like http : //www.theistic-evolution.com/ I would also look up Kenneth MIller on the web ... a highly Christian biologist who defends evolution .""",AGREE,"""This is a good site , but very atheist I think . Do you know of a good theistic equivalent ? I do not mean like those awful websites that misrepresent science to try and shoehorn the world into their Bible stories ( sorry to pick on Christians here , but it is Christian ones that I notice ) , but ones that look at real science and look to see if a theistic explaination works for things ?""","""Since evolution is a non-theistic theory ( it does not consider if there is a god or not ) , you will have to look at some like http : //www.theistic-evolution.com/ I would also look up Kenneth MIller on the web ... a highly Christian biologist who defends evolution .""",,
4847,1266,"""As rights of only one of two are being considered .""","""When the needs of the two are in conflict this is unavoidable .""",DISAGREE,"""As rights of only one of two are being considered .""","""When the needs of the two are in conflict this is unavoidable .""",,
4846,1266,"""As rights of only one of two are being considered .""","""When the needs of the two are in conflict this is unavoidable .""",DISAGREE,"""As rights of only one of two are being considered .""","""When the needs of the two are in conflict this is unavoidable .""",,
4899,1276,"""Okay , here ’ s the hypothesis I pulled out of my rear . Long ago , some females began to wear primordial shoes . The newly evolved shoe-wearing gene was selected for , as females with leather booties were less likely to cut their feet and acquire a deadly infection . This prolonged lifespan set up a selective pressure to develop a shoe fetish among males . Males who became attracted to the booties would be at an advantage , as they would more likely impregnate the bootie women who in turn would be more likely to survive to take care of their sperm products .""","""Sounds plausible . Surely the shoe started simple and became more complex . And surely shoes provide an advantage for survival .""",AGREE,"""Males who became attracted to the booties would be at an advantage , as they would more likely impregnate the bootie women""","""surely shoes provide an advantage for survival .""",,
4902,1277,"""I do n't know if it will be found unconstitutional , but there is an effort to simply get it repealed . Same effect in the end . Oh , and congrats !""","""Well , it is being challenged in the courts , so the only way to overturn it would be to deem it no longer constitutional . Oh , and thank you !""",AGREE,"""found unconstitutional , but there is an effort to simply get it repealed""","""the only way to overturn it would be to deem it no longer constitutional""",,
4913,1279,"""These so-called pro-lifers do n't care if women die because of forced pregnancies .""","""Of course they do n't care . Being selfish is a cornerstone of who they are . They think that all women are invisible""",AGREE,"""These so-called pro-lifers do n't care if women die because of forced pregnancies .""","""Of course they do n't care .""",,
4917,1280,"""I like your thinking , although I disagree with it . You say that God is the universe . I propose that God is relational . That without a relational god we are truly hopeless . The problem you are running into is that you are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation ( universe etc . ) and tying his existence to that . NOw I am going to say something that will really not make sense to you . God existed BEFORE time . Chew on that one a bit . Eternality implies an existence outside of time . And in fact , much of science alludes to this possibility . I certainly could never prove it and do not propose to but would like it if you would consider the implications . As for God communicating to us , there is nothing that prevents that . Especially if you accept the idea that we are imago dei , image bearers of the divine . We are not perfect images but we are rational , emotional , spiritual , beings EF""","""Can you explain spiritual beings ? I honestly do n't know what that means .""",DISAGREE,"""like your thinking , although I disagree with it""","""Can you explain spiritual beings ?""",,
4915,1280,"""I like your thinking , although I disagree with it . You say that God is the universe . I propose that God is relational . That without a relational god we are truly hopeless . The problem you are running into is that you are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation ( universe etc . ) and tying his existence to that . NOw I am going to say something that will really not make sense to you . God existed BEFORE time . Chew on that one a bit . Eternality implies an existence outside of time . And in fact , much of science alludes to this possibility . I certainly could never prove it and do not propose to but would like it if you would consider the implications . As for God communicating to us , there is nothing that prevents that . Especially if you accept the idea that we are imago dei , image bearers of the divine . We are not perfect images but we are rational , emotional , spiritual , beings EF""","""Can you explain spiritual beings ? I honestly do n't know what that means .""",DISAGREE,"""We are not perfect images but we are rational , emotional , spiritual , beings EF""","""Can you explain spiritual beings ? I honestly do n't know what that means .""",,
4920,1281,"""Its amazing how the facts are in front of thier faces yet they still claim they are only for `` Reasonable `` gin ( sic ) control laws .""","""Rather unsurprisingly , the U.S. constitution does not have any bearing on Australian law .""",DISAGREE,"""facts are in front of thier faces yet they still claim they are only for `` Reasonable `` gin ( sic ) control laws .""","""Rather unsurprisingly , the U.S. constitution does not have any bearing on Australian law .""",,
4921,1281,"""Its amazing how the facts are in front of thier faces yet they still claim they are only for `` Reasonable `` gin ( sic ) control laws .""","""Rather unsurprisingly , the U.S. constitution does not have any bearing on Australian law .""",DISAGREE,"""Its amazing how the facts are in front of thier faces yet they still claim they are only for `` Reasonable `` gin ( sic ) control laws .""","""Rather unsurprisingly , the U.S. constitution does not have any bearing on Australian law .""",,
4942,1296,"""=blackhawkflyer ] '' God ' is a figure that humanity created so that life would not be dull adn so that we would have reasurance ( sp ) that there is an after life 'God ' is a symbol of how sad and corrupt humanityt really is , think about it , god is supposed to be a being that created this world that gives you hope and that causes miracles , but where was `` GOd ' during semptember 11th where was `` God ' when 3000 people lost there lifes because terrorists decided that they shold fly a plane into the Twin Towers . where was god when the columbine shootings occured where is god for the soldiers who are losing there lifes in Iraq . I ask you where is this almighty force .""","""And where was Satan ? Slithering from the scene of every crime ...""",DISAGREE,"""God ' is a figure that humanity created so that life would not be dull adn so that we would have reasurance ( sp ) that there is an after life""","""Slithering from the scene of every crime ...""",,
4943,1296,"""=blackhawkflyer ] '' God ' is a figure that humanity created so that life would not be dull adn so that we would have reasurance ( sp ) that there is an after life 'God ' is a symbol of how sad and corrupt humanityt really is , think about it , god is supposed to be a being that created this world that gives you hope and that causes miracles , but where was `` GOd ' during semptember 11th where was `` God ' when 3000 people lost there lifes because terrorists decided that they shold fly a plane into the Twin Towers . where was god when the columbine shootings occured where is god for the soldiers who are losing there lifes in Iraq . I ask you where is this almighty force .""","""And where was Satan ? Slithering from the scene of every crime ...""",DISAGREE,"""god is supposed to be a being that created this world that gives you hope and that causes miracles""","""Slithering from the scene of every crime ...""",,
4944,1297,"""But the large , stupid , uncivil man probably also packs a gun , probably even something like an AK7 ,""","""and you bace clame on what ? that most violent crime is commited with out a weapon http : //www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf and that when a firearm is used 87 % of the time it is a handgun ( not an AK47 , witch is a hollywood favorit , but not truth ) .""",DISAGREE,"""uncivil man probably also packs a gun probably even something like an AK7""","""a firearm is used 87 % of the time it is a handgun not an AK47""",,
4960,1300,"""Gun Laws Effective Only If Enforced -- Courant.com""","""it totally emasculates our gun laws . That sums it up in a nutshell . And the nutjobs and control freaks wonder why we get P.O.ed at the suggestion of more feel good do nothing to solve the problem other than screw the law abiding gun control .""",AGREE,"""Gun Laws Effective Only If Enforced""","""it totally emasculates our gun laws .""",,
4968,1301,"""There is nothing inherently irrational about the theory of evolution being used to explain life in the physical universe , yet creation begins with an irrational premise , that we can `` know `` about the `` unknowable `` .""","""Is this a rational statement ? If so , prove it rationally , by science .""",DISAGREE,"""yet creation begins with an irrational premise ,""","""prove it rationally , by science .""",,
4970,1302,"""Those that believe in a right to ones own body have only one logical conclusion for this .""","""I see that you fail to see the logic that the less dominant Siamese twin ALSO has a right to their own body . One is not supporting the other - they are supporting each other so their rights are equal . Besides , both have a mental existence so , at least for me , abortion ( or , in this case , one being killed for the rights to body of the other ) would not be allowed .""",DISAGREE,"""Those that believe in a right to ones own body""","""I see that you fail to see the logic""",,
4994,1311,"""The bill would also protect gun manufacturers and dealers that have allowed their weapons to fall into the hands of criminals through their own negligence .""","""Really ? I do n't think you know what you are talking about . Please provide evidence to back your claim . Thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""The bill would also protect gun manufacturers""","""provide evidence to back your claim""",,
4995,1311,"""The bill would also protect gun manufacturers and dealers that have allowed their weapons to fall into the hands of criminals through their own negligence .""","""Really ? I do n't think you know what you are talking about . Please provide evidence to back your claim . Thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""The bill would also protect gun manufacturers and dealers""","""Really ? I do n't think you know what you are talking about .""",,
5006,1313,"""The ID movements form of ID states that there are `` large gaps `` in the theory of evolution that can only be explained by the presence of a supernatural designer . Behe is happy to think that it is the christian god ( like the rest of them ) , but they ar n't allowed to say that , because if they do , they violate that annoying ammendment !""","""So if I understand this correctly , we should n't believe evolution because it has gaps , but we should believe ID even though no one will/can say when the design happened , where it happened , what it was , or who the intelligence was ? Is that about right ? Seems to me the ID is nothing but gaps . Whenever I push an IDer for details of their claims , all I get is an anti-evolution position . Not even IDers seem to be able to say why ID should be considered correct .""",DISAGREE,"""ID movements form of ID states that there are `` large gaps ``""","""the ID is nothing but gaps""",,
5011,1314,"""There is nothing knowable that is beyond the reach of reason ,""","""How do you know ?""",DISAGREE,"""There is nothing knowable that is beyond the reach of reason ,""","""How do you know ?""",,
5030,1320,"""See how the fair application of literalism works ?""","""No . you 're not making any sense . Where is symbiote ? I got a horrible argument for him to dispell .""",DISAGREE,"""how the fair application of literalism works ?""","""you 're not making any sense . Where is symbiote ? I got a horrible argument for him to dispell .""",,
5033,1322,"""http : //www.bloomberg.com/apps/news ? p ... d=awia81URdshw Who the hell is he to say the love between my partner and I of 8 years is weak ? ! It 's stronger than many heterosexual couples .""","""Well if you are Catholic you would should probably find him pretty credible .""",DISAGREE,"""Who the hell is he to say the love between my partner and I of 8 years is weak ? ! It 's stronger than many heterosexual couples .""","""Well if you are Catholic you would should probably find him pretty credible .""",,
5034,1322,"""http : //www.bloomberg.com/apps/news ? p ... d=awia81URdshw Who the hell is he to say the love between my partner and I of 8 years is weak ? ! It 's stronger than many heterosexual couples .""","""Well if you are Catholic you would should probably find him pretty credible .""",DISAGREE,"""Who the hell is he to say the love between my partner and I of 8 years is weak ? ! It 's stronger than many heterosexual couples .""","""Well if you are Catholic you would should probably find him pretty credible .""",,
5047,1327,"""How many men who are single fathers and take sole responiblity for thier children because the women refuses to do so will you find if you go looking ? A few yes , but how many more women will you find in the reverse prediciment ?""","""I know of at least 3 personally , including my brother . He fought for custody for years and it nearly bankrupted him . He was trying to get his kids away from an ex-wife that would go away with her boyfriend for weekends at a time and leave their 15 year old daughter in charge of threee younger siblings .""",AGREE,"""How many men who are single fathers and take sole responiblity for thier children""","""I know of at least 3 personally , including my brother .""",,
5050,1328,"""Atheism vs. Creationism -- I follow atheism . Creationism is too improbable for me ; any thoughts ?""","""You follow atheism because you do n't understand theism . It is Creation vs. Evolution BTW . I am a blunt person on the net . So excuse me . To put it plainly if you want a God get one , but if you do n't then forget about it live and die . Do you want a God or not ?""",DISAGREE,"""Atheism vs. Creationism I follow atheism .""","""You follow atheism because you do n't understand theism . It is Creation vs. Evolution BTW .""",,
5060,1331,"""Evolutionary biologists are not at a loss to accomodate the evidence that the rate of evolution is dependent on the rate of mutation . We now understand that , in a finite world , where variation and time are not infinitely abundant , the non-randomness of variation ( long recognized by geneticists ) is expected to have a crucial influence on the course of evolution .""","""Variation does tend to have a pattern . It is usually drawn as a bell curve , with the top portion being the most common variation on a trait .""",AGREE,"""variation""","""Variation does tend to have a pattern . It is usually drawn as a bell curve , with the top portion being the most common variation on a trait .""",,
5102,1341,"""The Bible says that God created every thing in 6 days . That does not neccensaraly mean it only took 6 days . The meaning of the word `` day `` in the language the Bible was written in means basicly `` a long period of time `` . That would explain why some fossils are millions of years old . That does not how ever prove evolution .""","""Except that the word for day in Genesis 1 is 'yom ' and was understood to be a twenty-four hour day .""",DISAGREE,"""The Bible says that God created every thing in 6 days . That does not neccensaraly mean it only took 6 days .""","""Except that the word for day in Genesis 1 is 'yom ' and was understood to be a twenty-four hour day .""",,
5108,1342,"""POLICE are hunting armed bandits who have stolen more than $ 30,000 worth of guns in targeted home invasions Police fear the guns could be sold on the black market or used to commit further violent crimes . The chilling ambush attacks on family homes in Trafalgar , on August 19 , and Hampton Park , in June , are almost identical , with a crew of five masked men storming both houses in search for guns . In the Hampton Park attack , a woman and her three teenage children were tied up as their father was made to open a safe containing $ 25,000 worth of high-powered pistols . At the Trafalgar home , a woman , eight months pregnant , was pushed to the ground and bound as her husband was forced to retrieve $ 10,000 worth of guns from a safe and hand them over .""","""Melbourne Australia .""",DISAGREE,"""POLICE are hunting armed bandits who have stolen more than $ 30,000 worth of guns in targeted home invasions Police fear the guns could be sold on the black market or used to commit further violent crimes . The chilling ambush attacks on family homes in Trafalgar , on August 19 , and Hampton Park , in June , are almost identical , with a crew of five masked men storming both houses in search for guns . In the Hampton Park attack , a woman and her three teenage children were tied up as their father was made to open a safe containing $ 25,000 worth of high-powered pistols . At the Trafalgar home , a woman , eight months pregnant , was pushed to the ground and bound as her husband was forced to retrieve $ 10,000 worth of guns from a safe and hand them over .""","""Melbourne Australia .""",,
5109,1342,"""POLICE are hunting armed bandits who have stolen more than $ 30,000 worth of guns in targeted home invasions Police fear the guns could be sold on the black market or used to commit further violent crimes . The chilling ambush attacks on family homes in Trafalgar , on August 19 , and Hampton Park , in June , are almost identical , with a crew of five masked men storming both houses in search for guns . In the Hampton Park attack , a woman and her three teenage children were tied up as their father was made to open a safe containing $ 25,000 worth of high-powered pistols . At the Trafalgar home , a woman , eight months pregnant , was pushed to the ground and bound as her husband was forced to retrieve $ 10,000 worth of guns from a safe and hand them over .""","""Melbourne Australia .""",DISAGREE,"""POLICE are hunting armed bandits who have stolen more than $ 30,000 worth of guns in targeted home invasions Police fear the guns could be sold on the black market or used to commit further violent crimes . The chilling ambush attacks on family homes in Trafalgar , on August 19 , and Hampton Park , in June , are almost identical , with a crew of five masked men storming both houses in search for guns""","""Melbourne Australia .""",,
5121,1345,"""It has been explained here several times that the statistics indicate that gun ownership makes you more likely to be injured or killed . Perhaps the false sense of power increases risky behaviour in the owner , believing themselves invincible .""","""You really have flipped over the edge into the desparate area of insanity . Please Penfold present some STATISTICS to back up your wild accusations . IF you can not present anything other than the disgraceful 43 ..... Then shut up Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens save lives , the statistics back this up from EVERY country EVER to introduce gun control .""",DISAGREE,"""It has been explained here several times that the statistics indicate that gun ownership makes you more likely to be injured or killed .""","""IF you can not present anything other than the disgraceful 43 ..... Then shut up Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens save lives , the statistics back this up from EVERY country EVER to introduce gun control .""",,
5173,1366,"""Bryan , Off the top of your head , can you think of any other misdemeanors that result in the suspension/removal of a persons rights for the rest of their lives ? I know that felonies do , but is n't this unique in that it specifically removes a constitutional right based on a misdemeanor conviction ?""","""It is my understanding that it involves only domestic violence misdemeanor cases with a conviction .""",AGREE,"""Off the top of your head , can you think of any other misdemeanors that result in the suspension/removal of a persons rights for the rest of their lives ?""","""It is my understanding that it involves only domestic violence misdemeanor cases with a conviction""",,
5174,1366,"""Bryan , Off the top of your head , can you think of any other misdemeanors that result in the suspension/removal of a persons rights for the rest of their lives ? I know that felonies do , but is n't this unique in that it specifically removes a constitutional right based on a misdemeanor conviction ?""","""It is my understanding that it involves only domestic violence misdemeanor cases with a conviction .""",AGREE,"""can you think of any other misdemeanors that result in the suspension/removal of a persons rights for the rest of their lives""","""my understanding that it involves only domestic violence misdemeanor cases with a conviction .""",,
5183,1368,"""In states that have enacted bans against gay marriage . Divorce rates of traditional marriages are on the rise in such states , while declining in states which allow gay marriage : Instant Tea Blog Archive Divorce rates higher in states with amendments banning gay marriage Check out the stats at the above link .""","""But you are smart enough to realize that the ban on gay marriage has nothing to do with it .""",DISAGREE,"""In states that have enacted bans against gay marriage . Divorce rates of traditional marriages are on the""","""you are smart enough to realize that the ban on gay marriage has nothing to do with it .""",,
5213,1374,"""Prominent conservative J. Harvie Wilkinson of the 4th U.S . Circuit Court of Appeals compared Heller to Roe v. Wade and criticized it for its lack of adherence to conservative methodology : `` Heller represents a triumph for conservative lawyers . But it also represents a failure - the Court 's failure to adhere to a conservative judicial methodology in reaching its decision . In fact , Heller encourages Americans to do what conservative jurists warned for years they should not do : bypass the ballot and seek to press their political agenda in the courts. `` SSRN-Of Guns , Abortions , and the Unraveling Rule of Law by J. Wilkinson Supreme Court Justice Stevens also made a similar criticism . '' With emphasis on the word 'genuine , ' Stevens said that ' a genuine judicial conservative ' would not have inserted the Court into the 'political thicket ' of the gun rights debate as Scalia had done. `` The BLT : The Blog of Legal Times : Supreme Court : Scalia and Stevens Duke It Out So are pro-gun activists not so different than gay rights activists ? Both groups have used the courts to further their own agenda . It probably would have been better if Scalia had said to himself when the case was brought before the court , `` There certainly is no consensus about the meaning of the Second Amendment and I , as an amateur historian , am certainly not going to force my own personal views on others . I will let the people decide through their elected representatives how much gun control is necessary in their own communities. ``""","""I may be a pro-gunner but what doe 's that have to do with with gay rights ? Since I 'm a pro- gunner I wo n't force my life style or views on you , if you do n't force yours on me.Deal ? After all you seem to be the expert on gay rights .""",DISAGREE,"""lack of adherence to conservative methodology , they should not do : bypass the ballot and seek to press their political agenda in the courts""","""what doe 's that have to do with with gay rights ? I wo n't force my life style or views on you , if you do n't force yours on""",,
5212,1374,"""Prominent conservative J. Harvie Wilkinson of the 4th U.S . Circuit Court of Appeals compared Heller to Roe v. Wade and criticized it for its lack of adherence to conservative methodology : `` Heller represents a triumph for conservative lawyers . But it also represents a failure - the Court 's failure to adhere to a conservative judicial methodology in reaching its decision . In fact , Heller encourages Americans to do what conservative jurists warned for years they should not do : bypass the ballot and seek to press their political agenda in the courts. `` SSRN-Of Guns , Abortions , and the Unraveling Rule of Law by J. Wilkinson Supreme Court Justice Stevens also made a similar criticism . '' With emphasis on the word 'genuine , ' Stevens said that ' a genuine judicial conservative ' would not have inserted the Court into the 'political thicket ' of the gun rights debate as Scalia had done. `` The BLT : The Blog of Legal Times : Supreme Court : Scalia and Stevens Duke It Out So are pro-gun activists not so different than gay rights activists ? Both groups have used the courts to further their own agenda . It probably would have been better if Scalia had said to himself when the case was brought before the court , `` There certainly is no consensus about the meaning of the Second Amendment and I , as an amateur historian , am certainly not going to force my own personal views on others . I will let the people decide through their elected representatives how much gun control is necessary in their own communities. ``""","""I may be a pro-gunner but what doe 's that have to do with with gay rights ? Since I 'm a pro- gunner I wo n't force my life style or views on you , if you do n't force yours on me.Deal ? After all you seem to be the expert on gay rights .""",DISAGREE,"""So are pro-gun activists not so different than gay rights activists ?""","""I may be a pro-gunner but what doe 's that have to do with with gay rights ?""",,
5229,1378,"""First off the single common ancestor model has no demonstratable mechanism for how it is even possible . For another thing no substantive reasoning that all scientists use is empirically testable which is why subjective/objective duality is the philosophy of natural science . There is only a need to discern between the substantive reasoning ( theoretical ) and empirical testing ( demonstrative ) . Objectivism is based on substantive reasoning just like scientific positivism or natural selection for that matter . None of these things are subject to peer review since there is a distinction between subjective and objective reasoning .""","""* * * * * * * * . Utter fraking * * * * . Scientists have already accumulated mounds of evidence which suggest the common ancestor . You choose to ignore it as do most scientifically ignorant christians .""",DISAGREE,"""the single common ancestor model has no demonstratable mechanism For another thing no substantive reasoning that all scientists use is empirically testable which is why subjective/objective duality is the philosophy of natural science .""","""* * * * * * * * . Utter fraking * * * * . Scientists have already accumulated mounds of evidence which suggest the common ancestor . You choose to ignore it as do most scientifically ignorant christians .""",,
5233,1378,"""First off the single common ancestor model has no demonstratable mechanism for how it is even possible . For another thing no substantive reasoning that all scientists use is empirically testable which is why subjective/objective duality is the philosophy of natural science . There is only a need to discern between the substantive reasoning ( theoretical ) and empirical testing ( demonstrative ) . Objectivism is based on substantive reasoning just like scientific positivism or natural selection for that matter . None of these things are subject to peer review since there is a distinction between subjective and objective reasoning .""","""* * * * * * * * . Utter fraking * * * * . Scientists have already accumulated mounds of evidence which suggest the common ancestor . You choose to ignore it as do most scientifically ignorant christians .""",DISAGREE,"""First off the single common ancestor model has no demonstratable mechanism for how it is even possible . For another thing no substantive reasoning that all scientists use is empirically testable which is why subjective/objective duality is the philosophy of natural""","""Utter fraking * * * * . Scientists have already accumulated mounds of evidence which suggest the common""",,
5238,1379,"""Why , is there something wrong with being pro abortion ?""","""Is there something wrong with choosing to have a cheese sandwich as opposed to peanut butter and jelly ? Do you prefer actually having to make personal moral choices or do you need a rigid and inviolable instruction manual to run your life ?""",AGREE,"""Why , is there something wrong with being pro abortion ?""","""Is there something wrong with choosing to have a cheese sandwich as opposed to peanut butter and jelly ?""",,
5251,1384,"""If I search long enough , I can probably find someone who does n't think 2+2=4 . Does that invalidate it as being correct ? Waxy""","""Well , I can tell you that 2+2=10 , or indeed that 2+2=11 , and be correct .""",DISAGREE,"""I can probably find someone who does n't think 2+2=4 . Does that invalidate it as being correct ?""","""I can tell you that 2+2=10 , and be correct""",,
5256,1385,"""He also died after a month""","""And the theological implication of that is what ? P.S . Odd thing to about , no ?""",DISAGREE,"""He also died after""","""of that is what ? P.S . Odd thing to about , no ?""",,
5258,1386,"""What parts of the old testament actually help anyone do anything ?""","""Ten Commandments . Used as basic social norms .""",DISAGREE,"""What parts of the old testament actually help anyone do anything ?""","""Ten Commandments . Used as basic social norms .""",,
5273,1396,"""Actually it says * thou shalt not murder * killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the bible.So yeah I agree the command does pretty much mean what it says and does n't reffere to a fetus .""","""Oh ? Do n't you think that since Jesus said that whosoever so much as hated their brother without a cause is a murder ? Or are you Jewish and do n't believe the New Testament ? Is that why you say the Bible says nothing about abortion , or just plain killing at all ?""",DISAGREE,"""Actually it says * thou shalt not murder * killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the""","""Do n't you think that since Jesus said that whosoever so much as hated their brother without a cause is a murder ?""",,
5291,1399,"""Absolutely nothing could persuade me to change my mind . It is absolutely abhorrent to me that a woman would be denied ownership and autonomy over her own body . It is a gross violation of human rights and liberty . Here I stand , for liberty and human rights . I shall not be moved .""","""That 's great for women ! What about the rights of their children ?""",DISAGREE,"""Absolutely nothing could persuade me to change my mind . It is absolutely abhorrent to me that a woman would be denied ownership and autonomy over her own""","""That 's great for women ! What about the rights of their children ?""",,
5331,1427,"""Although much younger than the dinosaur bones we had been collecting , these fossils were still thousands of years old , dating back to a time when the Sahara was much wetter than today . The bones of crocodiles , snakes , and huge freshwater fish mutely testify to a time when the region boasted broad rivers and deep lakes that abounded with wildlife .""","""Really if this is another one of your fresh organic sample = age of decades of time capsule because they were both on top of the ground , you 're officially delusional .""",DISAGREE,"""Although much younger than the dinosaur bones we had been collecting , these fossils were still thousands of years old ,""","""you 're officially delusional""",,
5361,1435,"""Of course they do , just as they also support abortion for the reason of gender selection .""","""Most of the time one should be able to tell the sex of the baby by about 20 weeks and very often even at sixteen . Second trimester starts at 12 weeks . You can ’ t get an abortion after determining the sex because its illegal . Where are you getting your data ?""",DISAGREE,"""just as they also support abortion for the reason of gender selection""","""should be able to tell the sex of the baby by about 20 weeks and very often even at sixteen""",,
5368,1436,"""The old school creationists seem to be taking a new tact of proclaiming evolution to be a religion rather than true science .""","""I do n't think this approach is all that new , but I have to admit that I have n't been around as many of the old-school creationists .""",DISAGREE,"""a new tact of proclaiming evolution to be a religion rather than true science .""","""I do n't think this approach is all that new ,""",,
5369,1436,"""The old school creationists seem to be taking a new tact of proclaiming evolution to be a religion rather than true science .""","""I do n't think this approach is all that new , but I have to admit that I have n't been around as many of the old-school creationists .""",DISAGREE,"""seem to be taking a new tact""","""I do n't think this approach is all that new""",,
5386,1439,"""This is not evolution . It is not a mutation . This is adaptaion .""","""Actually , it is a mutation . Just like the color of the fur is a mutation . Polar bear fur is not white , it is colorless . Moreover , it is hollow . That is another mutation . And Polar bears have longer legs than their closest relatives , the brown bears . They have smaller ears . None of the changes are caused by `` friction `` . By the way , the webs between the toes of a Polar bear are very much like the webs between the toes of a duck . Adaptation is , by the way , evolution . I presume that is the word you meant to use . Adaptation is not adaption . You talk about the process as if it were adaption and then call it adaptation . In reality it is adaptation .""",DISAGREE,"""It is not a mutation . This is adaptaion .""","""Actually , it is a mutation""",,
5385,1439,"""This is not evolution . It is not a mutation . This is adaptaion .""","""Actually , it is a mutation . Just like the color of the fur is a mutation . Polar bear fur is not white , it is colorless . Moreover , it is hollow . That is another mutation . And Polar bears have longer legs than their closest relatives , the brown bears . They have smaller ears . None of the changes are caused by `` friction `` . By the way , the webs between the toes of a Polar bear are very much like the webs between the toes of a duck . Adaptation is , by the way , evolution . I presume that is the word you meant to use . Adaptation is not adaption . You talk about the process as if it were adaption and then call it adaptation . In reality it is adaptation .""",DISAGREE,"""It is not a mutation . This is adaptaion .""","""Actually , it is a mutation""",,
5392,1440,"""Why the clinical practice of medicine has no use for Darwinism , despite claims that it is impossible to practice medicine without applying its principles""","""Tell that to CDC pathologists . Or just read this post . ETA : Alternatively , let 's look at the logic in this way : because the field of quantum mechanics is useless for helping me describe classical physical systems , quantum mechanics must be wrong . I think this illustrates the fallacy satisfactorily .""",DISAGREE,"""Why the clinical practice of medicine has no use for Darwinism , despite claims that it is impossible to practice medicine""","""Tell that to CDC pathologists . Or just read this post . ETA : Alternatively , let 's look at the logic in this way""",,
5395,1441,"""1 ) The context changes nothing . The comment is the same with or without more sentences surrounding it . 2 ) `` rejected giving marriage rights/benefits to unmarried straight couples `` ? ? ? That 's like saying , `` I believe that black votes should not be counted , and whites who choose not to vote should also not have their votes counted. `` To try and compare a situation where one group has the CHOICE to use a right , and then chooses not to , to a second group that is DENIED that choice , is mind-bogglingly absurd .""","""Not at all . The issue is receiving the marriage benefits . If gays were given all of the benefits of marriage for just living together , we would n't have a fight at all as you would have gotten what you want . It is n't the marriage that is important to you but the benefits . And the debate in Italy of singles who live together seeking marriage benefits also is a good example of the can of worms that will be opened if society concedes to the gay crusaders the undue rights they are demanding . Why is it absolutely impossible for you to reply to an issue without first redefining it to fit your warped World view ? Have you no objectivity within you at all ?""",DISAGREE,"""rejected giving marriage rights/benefits to unmarried straight""","""If gays were given all of the benefits of marriage for just living together , we would n't have a fight at all as you would have gotten what you want""",,
5409,1443,"""So having guns is not part of being armed ?""","""Simply having them is n't the point . It 's about being able to use them .""",DISAGREE,"""So having guns is not part of being armed ?""","""Simply having them is n't the point . It 's about being able to use them .""",,
5413,1444,"""Despite the clinical term , the word is generally used to describe gun control advocates . It is mildly derogatory , less so than similar slang terms such as those mentioned above . It is most commonly used as a pejorative by gun rights advocates .""","""Try the link . You 've done the 'name calling ' , at least you could be honest about what you are doing .""",DISAGREE,"""Despite the clinical term , the word is generally used to describe gun control advocates .""","""You 've done the 'name calling ' , at least you could be honest about what you are doing .""",,
5423,1447,"""Even though the Bible is not a scientific text book and does n't purport to be , nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate . In addition , many of the scientific ideas you are so impressed with are nothing new to the Bible . It was speaking of these things long before modern science spoke of them .""","""Scientifically innacurate ? 1 word : Creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate""","""Creationism .""",,
5428,1448,"""As derived from my exploratory campaign web site ... d ) But the real issue , is the fact that most often , the girl is left to fend for herself , and ends up alone when she commits a mortal sin by killing her un-born child , BUT WHAT DOES THE FATHER HAVE TO DO ? MORE OFTEN THAN NOT ... nothing ... the fathers are just walking away ... even though often , they made promises and assurances to the girl before the sex act , and yet , when conception occurs those men are no where to be found . Therefore I would propose fathering laws , to hold men responsible for abortions , by mandating that women who have abortions , can give the name of the man or boy , and that simple DNA testing can prove they are the father , and those hesitant fathers , should do three months of hard labor , for each abortion they cause , by their lack of commitment and affection . In this way , the girls , and women are not imprisoned , or punished , but men who choose not to use a condom , and made false promises , will pay for their part of the sin . Of course , the girl , must be willing to give the name , and if she is given anonymity , and protections , she can do so , or not , if she chooses to , or not to . After which , before the abortion , the Father could be contacted by some means and given notice , such that later , after the abortion he can not claim that he did not know , and as such , is guilty , if he allows the abortion to occur . THIS , will give the man , the chance to marry the girl , or be punished for his lack of affection and concern . But again , all of this is dependant on the girl , willingly giving the mans name , and he must actually be the father to be convicted . And as such , this law would directly prevent most abortions , by making the fathers responsible for them , as they SHOULD BE ! So , unless they actually want to have kids THIS LAW , will put a condom on all males . So , if the goal is to prevent abortions , the best and only real solution is to get the males to wear a condom , and or otherwise be willing support the child , or to MARRY THE GIRL ! ! ! ! This kind of law , would do just that ... and does not punish the female . -Mosheh Thezion""","""But you must realize that it is not always the males fault . For sometimes the girl just decides that the male should not wear a condom , and in some instances she insists that he goes without one . So , when she finally cries wolf , why should he be held responsible ? Because she chose not to ? Sure , he should have his wits about him , and think about it , but it 's not all of his fault . I do believe in having to support the girl , but I do n't believe in that having that all based upon a promise . Words are words , she should have made sure that he followed them up with something before uncrossing her legs . It 's not always his fault , that she could n't hold them . He just got caught in the cross fire . While I am pro-life , I do n't believe that he should HAVE TO MARRY THE GIRL ! I do n't think that one mistake should cause them both to be tied down . And then , what if the guy turns out to be a slime-ball ? An abuser , rapist , murderer or something ? Then you 're subjecting both the girl , and the baby to a life of constant danger . I do n't think that 's fair to anyone . All in all , I think that the concept of child support should be kept in tact . That seems to work sometimes . Either that , or we , the people , should work out some sort of chastity pact . Something that enables the girls to have children , but does not allow it possible while they are young . That or having them keep the big V. Something other than the ideas that you proposed , although I do like your child support concept . That should be kept around . However , I do think that the other laws are reckless without thought .""",DISAGREE,"""even though often , they made promises and assurances to the girl before the sex act""","""But you must realize that it is not always the males fault .""",,
5433,1449,"""If only widespread gun ownership was 'safe ' ...""","""And I see you refuse to address my point . This argument might have some relevance and validity if you would back it up .""",DISAGREE,"""If only widespread gun ownership was 'safe '""","""This argument might have some relevance and validity if you would back it up .""",,
5460,1462,"""Hooray it is about time . Got to slap dem Christians down .""","""It 's sophomoric remarks like that that hurt the gay cause in America . God is n't mocked , though . And I doubt the people are either . And I 'm glad California outlawed the sin . The only thing you have left is to hope the far left , spiritually-stunted judges in the US Supreme Court are pro Sodom and Gomorrah .""",DISAGREE,"""Got to slap dem Christians down""","""And I 'm glad California outlawed the sin""",,
5469,1463,"""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created at the beginning of time .""","""Then we can conclude that you were n't being honest when you claimed you had done a detailed study of evolution . It seems that you made up your mind before you studied what creationists think of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created""","""you were n't being honest when you claimed you had done a detailed study of evolution .""",,
5465,1463,"""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created at the beginning of time .""","""Then we can conclude that you were n't being honest when you claimed you had done a detailed study of evolution . It seems that you made up your mind before you studied what creationists think of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created at the beginning of""","""It seems that you made up your mind before you studied what creationists think of evolution .""",,
5480,1467,"""Well , at some point they are sentient beings ( surely you agree ) , that 's the point that the fetus becomes a person in my opinion . Before that it 's not really too bad . I do n't have a problem with people `` having sex in an improper way `` or choosing to `` screw each other how they would like to screw each other `` . I do have a problem with people creating a feeling being and then killing it , as is the case when fetuses become sentient and are aborted . You also say that it is my opinion , which it is , but it is also your opinion . You have said that women who have abortion because they ar n't responsible are making bad decisions .""","""They are , but its their descision nonetheless .""",DISAGREE,"""You have said that women who have abortion because they ar n't responsible are making bad decisions .""","""They are , but its their descision nonetheless .""",,
5490,1470,"""Am i stupid or something ... whats a YEC ? Young Energetic Children ? Yacking Economistic Critters Yummy expensive cupcakes ?""","""It is an acronym for ' Y'oung ' E'arth ' C'reationist . In other words ... someone who believes that the earth is only 6,000 - 10,000 years old and was created in six days by a being known as God .""",DISAGREE,"""i stupid or something ... whats a YEC ? Young Energetic Children ? Yacking Economistic Critters""","""someone who believes that the earth is only 6,000 - 10,000 years old and was created in six days by a being known as God""",,
5515,1475,"""This is n't some hypothetical issue . We 're talking about human rights , people , living breathing adults with families , friends , looking forward to a new year , where .....""","""You 're right , as well as having the institution of marriage on the line . But you are the one who seems to think this is a game , based on your posts . ( with your comments like `` you 've won `` ; `` he 's lost `` , and other silly things , as if this is a basketball game or something . ) It seems you 'd do well to take your own advice . If you want people to constantly have to `` justify `` something to you , then you should make your own compelling arguments first ; throw something out there yourself rather than expect everyone else to do it for you . No one owes you anything here . As for me , I 'm not interested in your little games .""",AGREE,"""We 're talking about human rights , people , living breathing adults with families , friends ,""","""You 're right , as well as having the institution of marriage on the line .""",,
5511,1475,"""This is n't some hypothetical issue . We 're talking about human rights , people , living breathing adults with families , friends , looking forward to a new year , where .....""","""You 're right , as well as having the institution of marriage on the line . But you are the one who seems to think this is a game , based on your posts . ( with your comments like `` you 've won `` ; `` he 's lost `` , and other silly things , as if this is a basketball game or something . ) It seems you 'd do well to take your own advice . If you want people to constantly have to `` justify `` something to you , then you should make your own compelling arguments first ; throw something out there yourself rather than expect everyone else to do it for you . No one owes you anything here . As for me , I 'm not interested in your little games .""",AGREE,"""This is n't some hypothetical issue . We 're talking about human rights""","""But you are the one who seems to think this is a game , based on your posts . ( with your comments like `` you 've won `` ; `` he 's lost `` , and other silly things , as if this is a basketball game or something . )""",,
5520,1476,"""What are the chances that a H. sapiens would be born with your mother 's genetic code ? How about your father 's ? So , knowing how slim the chances are of those two events , the idea that a H. sapiens would be someday born on the planet earth with your precise genetic code in the ( at a guess ) latter quarter of the 20th century are - how did you put it now ? - Practically impossible .""","""Yes I think you are right .""",AGREE,"""What are the chances that a H. sapiens would be born with your mother 's genetic code ? Practically impossible .""","""Yes I think you are right .""",,
5539,1482,"""Most Christian Conservatives have n't read the Bible .""","""Actually , they have . But only Leviticus and Numbers .""",AGREE,"""Most Christian Conservatives have n't read Bible .""","""Actually , they have Leviticus and Numbers .""",,
5542,1483,"""Drivel snipped for clarity ! We really can do a whole lot more . I do n't know , myself . ...""","""That in a nutshell sums up your total knowledge .""",DISAGREE,"""snipped for clarity ! We really can do a whole lot more""","""nutshell sums up your total""",,
5546,1484,"""The US death rate due to medical misadventures is around 225,000 death annually made up of 12,000 deaths due to unnecessary surgery , 7,000 from medication mistakes in hospitals , 20,000 caused by other mistakes in hospitals , 80,000 fatalities from infections in hospitals and 106,000 due to the negative effect of drugs . So the most lethal inventions is not the gun or the car but in fact the doctor""","""So the number of deaths due to hospital screw up is almost 19 times higher than the murder rate involving firearms . Quite disturbing if you ask me . To this this suggests that we should look into more tightly regulated medical degrees than anything else .""",AGREE,"""So the most lethal inventions is not the gun or the car but in fact the doctor""","""So the number of deaths due to hospital screw up is almost 19 times higher than the murder rate involving firearms .""",,
5547,1485,"""Absolutely , and that 's because it 's wrongly perceived as a 'freedom thing ' . There 's no such thing as the 'freedom ' to be taught something of no scientific merit in a science class .""","""So you ’ re saying what is taught in schools is a scientific decision , not a political one ? Should abortion decisions be made by science , not politics ? After all , it ’ s a medical science right ? How do we decide what is a scientific decision vs a political one ? You ’ re considering  “ no scientific merit ” to be an objective conclusion . It ’ s not , since the scientific community has proven itself to be a very questionable judge of what is science and what is not . The scientific community is proven to have a worldview bias .""",DISAGREE,"""and it 's wrongly perceived as a 'freedom thing ' no such thing as the 'freedom ' to be taught something of no scientific merit in a science class""","""So you ’ re saying what is taught in schools is a scientific decision , not a political one ? Should abortion decisions be made by science , not politics ?""",,
5558,1487,"""The Crusades killed many people just for not converting to Christianity .""","""Many were ignorant in the `` dark `` ages .""",AGREE,"""The Crusades killed many people just for not converting to Christianity .""","""Many were ignorant in the `` dark `` ages .""",,
5563,1488,"""Life begins at conception -- -- -Brainwaves at three weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the facts ...""","""Its true .""",AGREE,"""Life begins at conception""","""Its true .""",,
5565,1489,"""Reason requires evidence , faith does not , they can not be intermixed .""","""Then show the evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""Reason requires evidence , they can not be intermixed .""","""show the evidence""",,
5574,1490,"""Yes , I believe that in most circumstances , the child should be carried to term , but there are exceptions to every rule , and I 'm not quite ready to forsake the lives and health of women to protect unborn children . Yes , I think the unborn child is worthy of protection , but not any more so than the mother , in fact probably less .""","""You think `` the unborn child is worthy of protection `` ... `` but not more so than the mother , probably less `` ... yet you believe `` in most circumstances the child should be carried to term ? ``""",DISAGREE,"""I believe that in most circumstances , the child should be carried to term , but there are exceptions to every rule ,""","""You think `` the unborn child is worthy of protection `` ... ``""",,
5590,1493,"""Bertvan : IÂ ’ ve never seen a nonliving process exhibit volition , and I see evidence that all living organisms , including plants and sponges show some limited ability to respond creatively to stimuli . More from the article by WascallyWabbit :""","""And I have never seen a non-living process chase a rabbit either . But that does not imply by any logic which I have ever encountered that rabbit chasing is a key characteristic of all living organisms . Perhaps in your world some means all but not in mine . The question is not whether SOME living systems exhibit volition , some do . The question is whether ALL living systems exhibit volition - many do not . Those that do not could not have evolved at all if evolution requires volition .""",DISAGREE,"""IÂ ’ ve never seen a nonliving process exhibit volition""","""The question is not whether SOME living systems exhibit volition , some do . The question is whether ALL living systems exhibit volition - many do not .""",,
5600,1495,"""If abortion is , once again , made illegal , then the states need to establish penalties . For non-medically needed partial birth abortions , I 'd throw the woman and doctor in jail without a second thought . NEXT ! !""","""And the man who impregnated the woman should walk away totally free of all responsibility ! Spoken just like an total misogynist !""",DISAGREE,"""I 'd throw the woman and doctor in jail without a second thought . NEXT ! !""","""man who impregnated the woman should walk away totally free of all responsibility !""",,
5628,1500,"""you see , the thing is that not everybody agrees with some of the theories that usually accompany evolution ( including Big Bang , abiogenesis , etc ) that try to answer the question `` how come existence `` .""","""But I think that is the point . What if you did n't agree with the germ theory of disease ? Does that mean that it should n't be taught in health classes in our schools ? Should it be replaced by the bad humors of night air theory ? But not everyone agrees with that theory either .""",DISAGREE,"""is that of .""","""But I that is the . What if you n't the germ of ? Does that it should n't be in health in our schools ? Should humors of night air not everyone with that either .""",,
5634,1501,"""My second disagreement with the paper is a computer would be useless to model living systems , because a computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life .""","""Well firstly we do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only - computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting it . I think you will find that there is NO valid reason for believing otherwise . And volition itself is NOT a defining characteristic of life . No biologist would buy that assumption . Sponges , bacteria , corn plants etc etc etc are mindless organisms and so far as can be determined do not act out of volition .""",DISAGREE,"""computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life""","""do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only - computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting it volition itself is NOT a defining characteristic of life""",,
5637,1501,"""My second disagreement with the paper is a computer would be useless to model living systems , because a computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life .""","""Well firstly we do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only - computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting it . I think you will find that there is NO valid reason for believing otherwise . And volition itself is NOT a defining characteristic of life . No biologist would buy that assumption . Sponges , bacteria , corn plants etc etc etc are mindless organisms and so far as can be determined do not act out of volition .""",DISAGREE,"""My second disagreement with the paper is a computer would be useless to model living systems , because a computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life .""","""Well firstly we do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only - computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting""",,
5638,1501,"""My second disagreement with the paper is a computer would be useless to model living systems , because a computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life .""","""Well firstly we do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only - computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting it . I think you will find that there is NO valid reason for believing otherwise . And volition itself is NOT a defining characteristic of life . No biologist would buy that assumption . Sponges , bacteria , corn plants etc etc etc are mindless organisms and so far as can be determined do not act out of volition .""",DISAGREE,"""computer can not model volition , the defining characteristic of life .""","""Well firstly we do not know that `` volition `` must be embodied in living organisms only computers MIGHT be capable of exhibiting it . And volition itself is NOT a defining characteristic of life Sponges , bacteria , corn plants etc etc etc are mindless organisms and so far as can be determined do not act out of volition .""",,
5647,1503,"""I believe it ’ s Satan ’ s presence that causes atheism and it also causes false religions to be dreamed up .""","""So newborn babies only have no Christian beliefs because Satan has removed them ? My position would be that the 'natural ' ( read : before external influences ) state of a person is atheism , for the same reason that you 'naturally ' have no belief in gremlins . People are n't born with beliefs , they are naturalised into them - whatever that belief may be .""",DISAGREE,"""I believe it ’ s Satan ’ s presence that causes atheism""","""newborn babies only have no Christian beliefs because Satan has removed them ? People are n't born with beliefs""",,
5650,1503,"""I believe it ’ s Satan ’ s presence that causes atheism and it also causes false religions to be dreamed up .""","""So newborn babies only have no Christian beliefs because Satan has removed them ? My position would be that the 'natural ' ( read : before external influences ) state of a person is atheism , for the same reason that you 'naturally ' have no belief in gremlins . People are n't born with beliefs , they are naturalised into them - whatever that belief may be .""",DISAGREE,"""’ s ’ s presence that causes atheism it""","""So newborn babies only have no Christian beliefs because Satan has removed them ?""",,
5670,1515,"""Should we allow health-care to the homeless , and illegal ? For the homeless : Yes . However , I think that it should be based upon how they got to be homeless . Because , sometimes , it 's their fault . And in those times , I do n't think that we should have to cover all of their health-care . DO I believe that we should cover some of it ? Yes , because it 's the right thing to do , and it is what our nation claims . Equal rights . However , I have nothing to say on the issue of the illegal , because a member in my family was recently attacked ( stabbed ) by one , and the wounds are too fresh , and if I speak on it , I will be speaking with prejudice , so I will leave that subject alone . But , what are your views ?""","""I think we should not spend inordinate amount of resources on trying to determine who is homeless and if it his own fault . Anyway , whose business is it where someone lives ?""",DISAGREE,"""I think that it should be based upon how they got to be homeless .""","""I think we should not spend inordinate amount of resources on trying to determine who is homeless and if it his own fault .""",,
5683,1519,"""I would consider myself pro-life ( although I hate such labels ) , but this kind of behavior is not only disrespectful , mean-spirited , and wrong , it runs counter to everything they are attempting to accomplish .""","""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . Most protestors on both sides are n't great . one thing did spark my interest , and it is said often , why is it a `` hard decision `` if you are pro-choice ? Is it hard because you do n't know if you want a baby around or not ? Could n't this decision be just as hard before being pregnant ? Even so , why link it to going to an abortion clinic ? You hear `` It was hard enough to come to this decision in the first place `` but how is going through some protestors making this decision harder ? No one would admit to this but it is statements like `` It was hard enough to come to this decision in the first place `` that make me believe that someone realizes it is wrong and the struggle that makes it hard is whether or not to do the right thing or do they thing that would benefit you the most . And in that case , I agree ... that can be a tough decision .""",DISAGREE,"""this kind of behavior is not only disrespectful""","""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . ``""",,
5685,1520,"""What about lesbians ? They can have childre , with a little help from the local sperm bank . In facst , they can BOTH get pregnant . Does tht mean that a marriage between 2 lesbians is twice as valid ?""","""But they did n't have sexual relations . This was from a sperm bank- there was nothing that made the two people create one being . Nonetheless , this is a side issue for future debates . My main point is homosexuality is a disorder that the government should n't be condoning . The government obviously does n't condone pedophilia , poligamy , and incest . Why is the government condoning homosexuality ?""",DISAGREE,"""In facst , they can BOTH get pregnant . Does tht mean that a marriage between 2 lesbians is twice as valid ?""","""But they did n't have sexual relations . This was from a sperm bank- there was nothing that made the two people create one being .""",,
5692,1521,"""Do n't quit your day job .""","""Oh damn it ... and I was going to sell this joke and retire !""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't quit your day job""","""Oh damn it ... and I was going to sell this joke and retire !""",,
5698,1523,"""I guess I need to rethink the word punish , but I think you know that I do not mean literal punishment . The term `` punish `` is being used as simply that , a term . I do believe that God would take that child directly to heaven , but the jump you make from your first two sentences to the point you try to make in the last sentence is nonsensical .""","""Alright , I 'll accept your term of punish . If you did n't fully understand what I was trying to say in my last post , here is a quick run down of it . Abortion = Punish Child If God is good he would n't punish an aborted child Therefore an aborted child will go to heaven If this were not true then God would be punishing the child I hope this is clear . I simply wanted to make the point that if you believe an unborn has a soul already , then aborting the child simply means it gets to go straight to heaven . That is not really a bad deal for the child .""",DISAGREE,"""The term `` punish `` is being used as simply that , a term""","""Alright , I 'll accept your term of punish""",,
5701,1524,""" ” Well , the first popular technique of creationists is to try to find examples of bad radiometric dates and offer these up as proof that radiometric dating is totally unreliable . Henry Morris , in his 1974 book `` Scientific Creationism `` made the claim that K/Ar dates for lava from the 1801 Hulalalei volcano lava flow ranged from 160 million years to 3 billion years old . With results like these , radiometric dating must be totally useless - how could scientists possibly be so stupid as to believe that radiometric dating could be of any merit when a simple lava flow gives such a wide range of dates - right in their own research ? As usual with such claims , we 'll have to dig a little further to get at the truth . Morris cited a study by Funkhouser and Norton – `` Radiogenic Helium and Argon in Ultramafic Inclusions from Hawaii `` published in the Journal of Geophysics Research , vol . 73 , pgs . 4601 - 4607 . What Morris did n't bother to inform his readers was that the study concerned xenoliths - fragments of foreign rock broken off by the magmas intrusion through the crust . Since they are not completely melted by the magma , they are in fact much older than the lava flow ( with K/Ar dating , what you are really dating is how long it has been since the rock solidified from the molten state - at this point the daughter Argon can no longer escape from the rock ) . That particular study confirmed ( as geologists already suspected ) that xenoliths could not be properly dated with the K/Ar method . The Funkhouser and Norton study clearly stated that the `` ages `` determined by K/Ar dating had no geological meaning and also determined that the xenoliths contained excess argon trapped in `` air `` bubbles inside the rock . Of course there was no mention of these details by Morris or any of the internet postings I have seen that still list this `` problem `` - despite the fact that Dalrymple answered it over 10 years ago . In the same paper , Dalrymple goes on to describe in detail several other quotes taken out of context by Creationists. ” ( http : //www.gate.net/~rwms/AgeEarth.html )""","""So the radiometric data stand : the Earth , moon , and older meteorites are all 4 or so billion years old , not just a few thousand . Changing Decay Rates ? Another Creationist attempt to counter radiometric dates that are incompatible with their young-Earth religious position is to claim that decay rates are not constant , thereby throwing a monkey wrench into the calculations . There are at least two problems with this argument . First , it is not at all clear how varying decay rates could result in multiple decay sequences all agreeing on the age of an object . Remember , for example , the oldest exposed rocks on earth , dated using different parent radioisotopes ? All five of the decay sequences ( Rb-Sr , Pb-Pb , U-Pb , Th-Pb , and Lu-Hf ) clustered right around 3.7 billion years . If decay rates vary enough to throw off dates by billions of years , why would they vary in exactly the way needed to consistently produce the same results ? Second , radioactive decay of nuclei is not comparable to chemical reactions . In chemistry , the rate at which chemical reaction proceeds can be altered in a number of ways , such as by changing the temperature , acidity , pressure , or reactant concentrations . Such changes , however , have essentially no effect on nuclear decay . In fact , experimental attempts to alter decay rates have been made , but failed .""",DISAGREE,"""made the claim that K/Ar dates for lava from the 1801 Hulalalei volcano lava flow ranged from 160""","""are at least two problems with this argument . First , it is not at all clear how varying decay rates""",,
5702,1524,""" ” Well , the first popular technique of creationists is to try to find examples of bad radiometric dates and offer these up as proof that radiometric dating is totally unreliable . Henry Morris , in his 1974 book `` Scientific Creationism `` made the claim that K/Ar dates for lava from the 1801 Hulalalei volcano lava flow ranged from 160 million years to 3 billion years old . With results like these , radiometric dating must be totally useless - how could scientists possibly be so stupid as to believe that radiometric dating could be of any merit when a simple lava flow gives such a wide range of dates - right in their own research ? As usual with such claims , we 'll have to dig a little further to get at the truth . Morris cited a study by Funkhouser and Norton – `` Radiogenic Helium and Argon in Ultramafic Inclusions from Hawaii `` published in the Journal of Geophysics Research , vol . 73 , pgs . 4601 - 4607 . What Morris did n't bother to inform his readers was that the study concerned xenoliths - fragments of foreign rock broken off by the magmas intrusion through the crust . Since they are not completely melted by the magma , they are in fact much older than the lava flow ( with K/Ar dating , what you are really dating is how long it has been since the rock solidified from the molten state - at this point the daughter Argon can no longer escape from the rock ) . That particular study confirmed ( as geologists already suspected ) that xenoliths could not be properly dated with the K/Ar method . The Funkhouser and Norton study clearly stated that the `` ages `` determined by K/Ar dating had no geological meaning and also determined that the xenoliths contained excess argon trapped in `` air `` bubbles inside the rock . Of course there was no mention of these details by Morris or any of the internet postings I have seen that still list this `` problem `` - despite the fact that Dalrymple answered it over 10 years ago . In the same paper , Dalrymple goes on to describe in detail several other quotes taken out of context by Creationists. ” ( http : //www.gate.net/~rwms/AgeEarth.html )""","""So the radiometric data stand : the Earth , moon , and older meteorites are all 4 or so billion years old , not just a few thousand . Changing Decay Rates ? Another Creationist attempt to counter radiometric dates that are incompatible with their young-Earth religious position is to claim that decay rates are not constant , thereby throwing a monkey wrench into the calculations . There are at least two problems with this argument . First , it is not at all clear how varying decay rates could result in multiple decay sequences all agreeing on the age of an object . Remember , for example , the oldest exposed rocks on earth , dated using different parent radioisotopes ? All five of the decay sequences ( Rb-Sr , Pb-Pb , U-Pb , Th-Pb , and Lu-Hf ) clustered right around 3.7 billion years . If decay rates vary enough to throw off dates by billions of years , why would they vary in exactly the way needed to consistently produce the same results ? Second , radioactive decay of nuclei is not comparable to chemical reactions . In chemistry , the rate at which chemical reaction proceeds can be altered in a number of ways , such as by changing the temperature , acidity , pressure , or reactant concentrations . Such changes , however , have essentially no effect on nuclear decay . In fact , experimental attempts to alter decay rates have been made , but failed .""",DISAGREE,"""Well , the first popular technique of creationists is to try to find examples of bad radiometric dates and offer these up as proof that radiometric dating is totally unreliable . ``""","""Changing Decay Rates ? Another Creationist attempt to counter radiometric dates that are incompatible with their young-Earth religious position is to claim that decay rates are not constant , thereby throwing a monkey wrench into the calculations .""",,
5706,1525,"""I know we did n't live with dinosaurs , I was talking about mammals in general .""","""You made it sound like humans and dinosaurs were competing and we got a lucky break by having a meteor knock off the dinos . If mammals had died off , we would n't be around to know about it .""",DISAGREE,"""was talking about mammals in general .""","""If mammals had died off , we would n't be around to know about it .""",,
5715,1527,"""To me as an Atheist any genocide is an evil act , but to the Christian the Destruction of Sodom or the great flood was a moral act because God 'dunnit '""","""And yet the atheist belief system allows for everyone to have their own seperate set of morals . According to the Atheist system , what Hitleror Stalin did was perfectly moral because those atheists believed that what they were doing was moral . Disgusting if you ask me .""",DISAGREE,"""To me as an Atheist any genocide is an evil act , but to the Christian the Destruction of Sodom or the great flood""","""And yet the atheist belief system allows for everyone to have their own seperate set of morals .""",,
5731,1530,"""Once again , it is perfectly reasonable to assume someone breaking into my house in the middle of the night means to harm myself and/or my family . I would be well within my rights .""","""You were n't referring to your home in your little story of helplessness .""",DISAGREE,"""Once again , it is perfectly reasonable to assume someone breaking into my house in the middle of the night means to harm myself and/or my family .""","""You were n't referring to your home in your little story of helplessness""",,
5747,1533,"""But I 'm sure that when http : //answersingenesis.com came on line , atheists and anti christian bigots all over the internet took bets they would fail just as ripskar is doing now with the creation of this new site .""","""Actually , I do n't remember that they did . What they did take bets on was that AIG would be able to find enough stupid people who would buy into their ignorant and scientifically illiterate tripe . As I recall , most who were actually aware of how stupid creationists can be bet that they would be able to do so . So now , besides their other so called 'peer reviewed ' magazine , they want to pretend that they are doing science here .""",DISAGREE,"""when http : //answersingenesis.com came on line , atheists and anti christian bigots all over the internet took bets they would fail""","""What they did take bets on was that AIG would be able to find enough stupid people who would buy into their ignorant and scientifically illiterate tripe .""",,
5751,1534,"""ToE does not state that `` life forms are similar to each other `` .""","""Evolution 's evidence is that life is similar , you wo n't be able to find an exception I am sure .""",DISAGREE,"""ToE does not state that `` life forms are similar to each other `` .""","""Evolution 's evidence is that life is similar , you wo n't be able to find an exception""",,
5765,1536,"""Concepts do not `` come from `` somewhere , they are not physical entities and do not have physical properties such as locations , beginnings or ends . They do not require a creator , physical ( the universe ) or imaginary ( God ) .""","""This is my thinking exactly . Waxy""",AGREE,"""Concepts do not `` come from `` somewhere , they are not physical entities and do not have physical properties such as locations , beginnings or ends . They do not require a creator , physical ( the universe ) or imaginary ( God ) .""","""This is my thinking exactly""",,
5761,1536,"""Concepts do not `` come from `` somewhere , they are not physical entities and do not have physical properties such as locations , beginnings or ends . They do not require a creator , physical ( the universe ) or imaginary ( God ) .""","""This is my thinking exactly . Waxy""",AGREE,"""Concepts do not `` come from `` somewhere , they are not physical entities and do not have physical properties such as locations , beginnings or ends""","""This is my thinking exactly . Waxy""",,
5776,1538,"""Only one innocent bled in this case .""","""The point is you dancing in the blood , of at least one innocent . Why else post this ? Especially with no comment ?""",DISAGREE,"""Only one innocent bled in this case .""","""The point is you dancing in the blood , of at least one innocent .""",,
5786,1540,"""Socialism , communism and capitalism are n't the only choices for how to organize an economy . Also , the US at present is neither `` pure capitalist `` nor socialist . I do believe that some people should re-evaluate their definitions of socialism , as they seem confused about what it is .""","""The US is still the closest thing to a pure capitalist country in the world . But you are correct , our system is not a pure capitalist one . We have reminants of all types of systems including socialism . In the modern world I do n't think a society as large as the US is could be run under just one pure system .""",AGREE,"""Also , the US at present is neither `` pure capitalist `` nor socialist""","""the closest thing to a pure capitalist country in the world . our system is not a pure capitalist one .""",,
5793,1541,"""for the sake of this topic , would it be ok if we borrow the word evolution from your biologist for a minute ?""","""Well , I ca n't stop you . But if some creationist says `` But in that other thread you said evolution meant , blah , blah , blah ... `` do n't come crying to me . Ok , getting off my soapbox now , I 'd say you 're totally right . Certain branches of Christianity , like Catholisism , have traditionally been very resistant to change . Unwilling to adapt , one might say . And the Catholic church has been in a state of decline of late . The social climate in which Catholosism thrived no longer exists , and so it is n't doing as well . We also see lots of little churches springing up , filling religious enviromental niches , as it were . What can we predict for the future ? Here 's my guess . The two main enviromental factors that will shape religion will be a desire for stability and an ability to adapt to new ideas . As communication and travel become easier , people will be exposed to more new ideas and cultures , and religions will be forced to deal with people saying `` Yeah , but what about this new idea I just heard ? How does that fit in ? `` On the other hand , as people get exposed to other ideas , they 'll want to have some core of ideas of their own to hold on to . Sort of a psychological anchor . I figure we should expect to see the more dogmatic churches fade away , as people become exposed to more , different ideas . If you ca n't adapt , you become extinct . Churches that espouse firm moral ideas based on humanisitic reasoning will probably do well .""",AGREE,"""would it be ok if we borrow the word evolution from your biologist for a minute ?""","""Well , I ca n't stop you .""",,
5790,1541,"""for the sake of this topic , would it be ok if we borrow the word evolution from your biologist for a minute ?""","""Well , I ca n't stop you . But if some creationist says `` But in that other thread you said evolution meant , blah , blah , blah ... `` do n't come crying to me . Ok , getting off my soapbox now , I 'd say you 're totally right . Certain branches of Christianity , like Catholisism , have traditionally been very resistant to change . Unwilling to adapt , one might say . And the Catholic church has been in a state of decline of late . The social climate in which Catholosism thrived no longer exists , and so it is n't doing as well . We also see lots of little churches springing up , filling religious enviromental niches , as it were . What can we predict for the future ? Here 's my guess . The two main enviromental factors that will shape religion will be a desire for stability and an ability to adapt to new ideas . As communication and travel become easier , people will be exposed to more new ideas and cultures , and religions will be forced to deal with people saying `` Yeah , but what about this new idea I just heard ? How does that fit in ? `` On the other hand , as people get exposed to other ideas , they 'll want to have some core of ideas of their own to hold on to . Sort of a psychological anchor . I figure we should expect to see the more dogmatic churches fade away , as people become exposed to more , different ideas . If you ca n't adapt , you become extinct . Churches that espouse firm moral ideas based on humanisitic reasoning will probably do well .""",AGREE,"""for the sake of this topic , would it be ok if we borrow the word evolution""","""I ca n't stop you . But if some creationist says `` But in that other thread you said evolution meant""",,
5811,1545,"""On the contrary . If I were you , I would think more deeply before I uttered another statement on this topic . It is your logic that is flawed . And that is why you are making so many mistakes when it comes to your posts . Because everything you said , is extremely flawed . And do n't worry , I 'll take the time to break down why that is , with every statement you post up here . Ending on this note .""","""Well let me say that so far that you have n't been doing a very good job . My arguments are completely solid , and you have n't even gotten close to refuting them . You accuse me of being stupid because my mom watched star trek , you refute my arguments by providing the defonition of masturbation and periods , and then you call me illogical and tell me to think about my statements more deeply . [ quote ] You said that you can only abort in the first and second trimester , which I already know . But saying that you do n't exsist in these stages is a huge misstatement . [ quote ] Let me rephrase that . The beginnings of my body existed . What you know as `` me `` the person who 's saying this , did not exist . My brain , which is really `` me `` did not exist .""",DISAGREE,"""Because everything you said , is extremely flawed .""","""My arguments are completely solid""",,
5825,1548,"""So what ? ? Who cares what the number of assumptions are ? What we care about is whether the idea is correct . And to determine whether it is correct , you have to have data , not counting assumptions .""","""I would agree , except that there are situations where the data supports two ideas . If it appears to support both ideas equally , what do you do ?""",DISAGREE,"""And to determine whether it is correct , you have to have data , not counting assumptions .""","""I would agree , except that there are situations where the data supports two ideas .""",,
5839,1552,"""Lets put it another way then . If the world did not exist or did not run by the theories and laws presented by science , you would think that there would be SOME experience at SOME point in reliably recordeable human history that people had which would have shown this .""","""1 ) the theories and laws constantly change , so it 's not like there 's one standard that 's benn kept to . At best the 'theories and laws of science ' are statements that fit with as many experiences and events as possible 2 ) If someone reports something against science , it 's rejected as 'unscientific' 3 ) I 'm rejecting the certainty of experience , so using experience to prove it is circular""",DISAGREE,"""Lets put it another way then .""","""the theories and laws constantly change""",,
5852,1557,"""yeah , that is correct .""","""And this here shows exactly what type of a person you are . Why do n't you post as to the topic of the thread instead of trying to start arguments ? It 's really sickening . ON the subject of your starting arguments , I notice you selectively ignored my view that I posted . Could n't come up with an argument ?""",DISAGREE,"""that is correct .""","""Could n't come up with an argument ?""",,
5874,1564,"""... ( D ) `` Semi-automatic firearm `` means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a single cartridge and automatically chamber a succeeding cartridge ready to fire , with a single function of the trigger . ... ( L ) `` Assault weapon `` means any : ( 1 ) Semi-automatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following : ( a ) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the receiver of the weapon ; ( b ) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand ; ( c ) A folding , telescoping or thumbhole stock ; ( d ) A shroud attached to the barrel , or that partially or completely encircles the barrel , allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned , but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel ; or ( e ) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator ; ( 2 ) Semi-automatic pistol , or any semi-automatic , centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine , that has the capacity to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition ; ( 3 ) Semi-automatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has one or more of the following : ( a ) Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip than can be held by the non-trigger hand ; ( b ) A folding , telescoping or thumbhole stock ; ( c ) A shroud attached to the barrel , or that partially or completely encircles the barrel , allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned , but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel ; ( d ) A muzzle brake or muzzle compensator ; or ( e ) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at any location outside of the pistol grip ; ( 4 ) Semi-automatic shotgun that has one or more of the following : ( a ) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the receiver of the weapon ; ( b ) A folding , telescoping or thumbhole stock ; ( c ) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five standard two and three quarters inch rounds ; or ( d ) An ability to accept a detachable magazine ; ( 5 ) Shotgun with a revolving cylinder ; ( 6 ) Conversion kit or combination of parts from which an assault weapon can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person . ...""","""The actual law :""",DISAGREE,"""Semi-automatic firearm `` means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a single cartridge""","""The actual law :""",,
5877,1565,"""Answers include but are not limited to : • People need a solution for the Problem of Evil . • People want to have an `` objective `` standard for good and evil . • God said it , I believe it , that settles it .""","""Mormons believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus .""",DISAGREE,"""People need a solution for the Problem of Evil .""","""Mormons believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus .""",,
5899,1571,"""Women have been denigrated and made fun of for centuries . I 've just gotten tired of it -- and righteously so .""","""haha , so because of this you should make fun of men and not women ? That makes no sense but I figured you 'd say this .""",DISAGREE,"""Women have been denigrated and made fun of for centuries . I 've just gotten tired of it -- and righteously so .""","""That makes no sense but I figured you 'd say this .""",,
5915,1575,"""Notice he is from a baptist church . The most bigest < term that has been banned > are baptists or catholic .""","""Really ? ? ? Maybe you should do a little research before you make sweeping statements like that . -- http : //www.rainbowbaptists.org/""",DISAGREE,"""Notice he is from a baptist church . The most baptists or catholic .""","""Really ? ? ? Maybe you should do a little research before you make sweeping statements like that .""",,
5928,1579,"""It is not the case of `` only in a america `` , montalban was australian and he was a poster here . A prominent australian creation supporter is Ken Ham although I doubt he posts here . But they are certainly stubborn . I have failed to have a discussion with any creationist despite repeated attempts .""","""But was this recent version of Chritianity exported form America ? I know these sorts make us laughingstocks to many in other countries , especially the televangelists .""",DISAGREE,"""It is not the case of `` only in a america `` , A prominent australian creation supporter is Ken Ham although I doubt he posts here . I have failed to have a discussion with any creationist""","""But was this recent version of Chritianity exported form America ? especially the televangelists .""",,
5939,1581,"""Bones are converted to rock by water slowly replacing the living tissue with minerals . It takes a long , long , long time . Not to mention carbon dating does work for most human remains ( effective for 70,000 years or younger ) , but not dinosaurs .""","""Well , I 'm told that the upper limits have been extended by more accurate instruments , but I 'm an old bugger who learned 50,000 years for carbon dating . I 'm going to stick with that until I 've seen some real data .""",DISAGREE,"""Bones are converted to rock by water slowly replacing the living tissue with minerals . It takes a long""","""I 'm told that the upper limits have been extended by more accurate instruments""",,
5974,1594,"""The old saying that knowledge is not borne out in the heart of fools is all too true . If you had the character that agreed rather with this statement : the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom , then I would think that we could make progress in this little exchange . I suspect though that you are bent on somehow informing me and others that the Bible is not valid and further , that God is not to be believed in .""","""The fear of God ? What God ? Only yours or any God ? How about the fear of something greater than yourself ? Would that be progress ? I 'm not trying to inform you or anyone else of anything at this time . I posted thread originally to get reactions to it so that I could better judge whether those views were valid or not . As a side affect people may be influenced by the debates that happen here , but I am doing this for myself more than I am for anyone else . So do n't think I 'm trying to push anyone to believe anything , although I do wish for people to question their own views as a way to best understand what they believe in and why they believe it . Based on the way you posted here , it is my guess you are unwilling to do that in the case presented here .""",DISAGREE,"""I suspect though that you are bent on somehow informing me and others that the Bible is not valid and further , that God is not to be believed in .""","""do n't think I 'm trying to push anyone to believe anything , although I do wish for people to question their own views as a way to best understand what they believe in and why they believe it .""",,
6009,1600,"""I have been on the local board of education for 2 years now and have never heard the phrase `` Young Earth Creationists `` in any official capacity , nor has anybody ever suggested that it be taught .""","""Of course not . That battle has already been lost . Creationism is religion and it can not be taught in a science class , even when it is called `` creation science `` and the data is distorted and mininterpreted . The most recent attempt by creationists in Kansas on the State Board ( and yes , they were YECs ) was to eliminate all requirements to teach evolution , and all references to an old earth from all curriculum standards .""",DISAGREE,"""nor has anybody ever suggested that it be taught .""","""That battle has already been lost . Creationism is religion and it can not be taught in a science class""",,
6012,1601,"""I disagree I hear it all the time . What are you going to do when science fills in the gaps and such nonsense .""","""Umm ... thats the point of saying God of the Gaps - when science fills in the gaps then there is less for your God to do .""",DISAGREE,"""What are you going to do when science fills in the gaps and such nonsense .""","""thats the point of saying God of the Gaps - when science fills in the gaps then there is less for your God to do .""",,
6020,1602,"""No worries mate . Brooklyn 's 81st Precinct probed by NYPD for fudging stats ; felonies allegedly marked as misdemeanors New York cops 'fudge ' stats like the Tories to make their `` strict gun laws `` look more compatible to the States that do not have draconian anti gun laws and need not depend on the cops protecting you when they have no duty to do so . I have been following UK stats for a long time and no matter who is in power , the crime rates increase . Often the perp is set free and the victem is the one punished like the incident you mentioned : Pushing someone out the way while attempting to escape is a violent crime under UK law .""","""You realise I 'm talking about if the burglar is running away , not the householder , right ? Looking at it again I realise I may not have phrased it clearly enough . I 'm saying that some of those `` violent `` crimes may simply have been burglars pegging it when disturbed .""",DISAGREE,"""No worries mate . Brooklyn 's 81st Precinct probed by NYPD for fudging stats ; felonies allegedly marked as misdemeanors""","""You realise I 'm talking about if the burglar is running away , not the householder , right ?""",,
6016,1602,"""No worries mate . Brooklyn 's 81st Precinct probed by NYPD for fudging stats ; felonies allegedly marked as misdemeanors New York cops 'fudge ' stats like the Tories to make their `` strict gun laws `` look more compatible to the States that do not have draconian anti gun laws and need not depend on the cops protecting you when they have no duty to do so . I have been following UK stats for a long time and no matter who is in power , the crime rates increase . Often the perp is set free and the victem is the one punished like the incident you mentioned : Pushing someone out the way while attempting to escape is a violent crime under UK law .""","""You realise I 'm talking about if the burglar is running away , not the householder , right ? Looking at it again I realise I may not have phrased it clearly enough . I 'm saying that some of those `` violent `` crimes may simply have been burglars pegging it when disturbed .""",DISAGREE,"""strict gun laws `` the States that do not have draconian anti gun laws and need not depend on the cops protecting you ,""","""I 'm saying that some of those `` violent `` crimes may simply have been burglars pegging it when disturbed .""",,
6059,1609,"""Firstly , complete this sentence : If decreasing demand for meat in the western world decreases the price of meat in the developing world , increasing demand for vegetables in the western world _________ the price of vegetables in the developing world . Malnourished children are n't worried about getting meat . They ca n't even afford vegetables . Lower meat prices wo n't help them . In your own words `` most starving people today can not even afford grains ``""","""The 2020 Global Food Outlook answers this as it says that a greater demand for vegetables will correspond with higher prices of vegetables in developing countries . Many articles acknowledge that starving people can not afford much of any of the food for sale around them , and a greater demand for meat does not necesarily mean a decrease in demand for vegetables as populations grow globally . Since increasing meat consumption is irrational because it will not feed the poor and it will do even more damage to the environment , again , the solution proposed is to support the initiative for developing nations to become more self-sufficient in growing plant foods for themselves .""",AGREE,"""western world decreases the price Malnourished children are n't worried""","""Global Food Outlook vegetables will correspond""",,
6061,1609,"""Firstly , complete this sentence : If decreasing demand for meat in the western world decreases the price of meat in the developing world , increasing demand for vegetables in the western world _________ the price of vegetables in the developing world . Malnourished children are n't worried about getting meat . They ca n't even afford vegetables . Lower meat prices wo n't help them . In your own words `` most starving people today can not even afford grains ``""","""The 2020 Global Food Outlook answers this as it says that a greater demand for vegetables will correspond with higher prices of vegetables in developing countries . Many articles acknowledge that starving people can not afford much of any of the food for sale around them , and a greater demand for meat does not necesarily mean a decrease in demand for vegetables as populations grow globally . Since increasing meat consumption is irrational because it will not feed the poor and it will do even more damage to the environment , again , the solution proposed is to support the initiative for developing nations to become more self-sufficient in growing plant foods for themselves .""",AGREE,"""most starving people today can not even afford grains""","""Many articles acknowledge that starving people can not afford much of any of the food for sale around them ,""",,
6064,1610,"""How is it that gay marriage recognition is an example of `` equality `` rather than a special right ? You already have the very same right to marry and opposite-sex person right now , as anyone else in this country . The problem is that you want a right over and above that -- special rights .""","""Because homosexuals are n't attracted to members of the opposite sex , so it 's pointless . In order to have a right , you have to have a legimimate way in which you can exercize that equal right . That 's not possible with hetero-only marriages . There is no special right , it 's equalizing it for biological concerns . Saying homosexuals can get married , but only to heterosexuals is like saying that they HAVE the right , but they have to go against their biological/mental state in order to exercize that . That 's unreasonable . Of course , prior to this debate , Blacks COULD get married , but only proper marriage was between members of the same race . They have the same , equal rights !""",DISAGREE,"""How is it that gay marriage recognition is an example of `` equality `` rather than a special right ?""","""Because homosexuals are n't attracted to members of the opposite sex , so it 's pointless .""",,
6066,1610,"""How is it that gay marriage recognition is an example of `` equality `` rather than a special right ? You already have the very same right to marry and opposite-sex person right now , as anyone else in this country . The problem is that you want a right over and above that -- special rights .""","""Because homosexuals are n't attracted to members of the opposite sex , so it 's pointless . In order to have a right , you have to have a legimimate way in which you can exercize that equal right . That 's not possible with hetero-only marriages . There is no special right , it 's equalizing it for biological concerns . Saying homosexuals can get married , but only to heterosexuals is like saying that they HAVE the right , but they have to go against their biological/mental state in order to exercize that . That 's unreasonable . Of course , prior to this debate , Blacks COULD get married , but only proper marriage was between members of the same race . They have the same , equal rights !""",DISAGREE,"""How is it that gay marriage recognition is an example of `` equality `` rather than a special right ? you want a right over and above that -- special rights .""","""homosexuals are n't attracted to members of the opposite sex you have to have a legimimate way in which you can exercize that equal right . That 's not possible with hetero-only marriages There is no special right , it 's equalizing it for biological concerns""",,
6074,1612,"""The following is from an article ,  “ What Drives Evolution ” from LliveScience , and quoting Pigluicci . Perhaps someone who has been here long enough to acquire such privilege can post the link for me . Wascally Wabbit ?""","""* * Sorry , b. I went to livescience and to pigliucci , but could not find the link . You can send it to me , PM or email , and I 'll post it for you .""",DISAGREE,"""post the link for me""","""I 'll post it for you .""",,
6086,1615,"""personally , i laugh when i 'm angry .""","""k""",DISAGREE,"""i laugh when i 'm angry""","""k""",,
6095,1617,"""What a crock . I find myself loving when you go on and on so that I can continue to wail on you with the Truth Stick of No Mercy™ . It 's usually you who is responsible for shutting yourself up . No , you 're branded as a religious zealot when you make arguments that people who do n't share your exact beliefs should have their rights taken away . Liberals were responsible for things like abolition of slavery and women 's suffrage that overturned the oh-so-traditional status quo . Now we 're working toward death with dignity for the terminally ill , reasonable gun control , access to abortion and contraception ( without sparking the ire of fundy parents and community members ) ... are these things that are despised by the rest of the world ? No , but things like slavery , sexism , rampant crime , and politicization of private issues are . The main cause of so much hate and disrespect is the phony war we 're fighting and our tactics in violation of international law , our attitude of superiority in the world , and our outright bullying of others , all of which are being pushed the most by -- you guessed it -- not liberals . No , Archie , you and your boys can take the blame for that one . Archie 's projection complex strikes again ! Pretty much , we can take whatever Archie says and know that the truth is the precise opposite .""","""Do n't be too sure of yourself because he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say . also your `` science `` is scissors , glue , and tape . no proof of it exists if the earth was millions of years old than there would be no fossils of dinosaurs and people and do n't say preseservative because they do n't last that long ill let you think about that""",DISAGREE,"""I find myself loving when you go on and on so that I can continue to wail on you with the Truth Stick of No Mercy™ . It 's usually you who is responsible for shutting yourself up .""","""Do n't be too sure of yourself because he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say . also your `` science `` is scissors , glue , and tape .""",,
6103,1627,"""Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox today threw his support behind the National Rifle Association 's challenge of a City of Chicago ordinance banning possession of most handguns by filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court . Cox 's amicus brief -- a document filed in court by someone not directly related to a case -- supports the request by the NRA to the Supreme Court for an appeal of the U.S . Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ' decision in June favoring the City of Chicago . At least 33 other states support the NRA 's request for the court to hear an appeal in National Rifle Association v. City of Chicago .""","""Say hello to my little friend ! We the people , through our State Governments !""",AGREE,"""General Mike Cox today threw his support behind the National Rifle Association 's challenge of a City of Chicago""","""Say hello to my little friend ! We the people , through our State Governments""",,
6128,1633,"""Despite all your hoplophobia , governments have killed more people , their own people in the last century than all wars combined . That is an indisputable fact .""","""What does this have to do with nations like England having lower murder rates ? Try to stay on topic .""",DISAGREE,"""governments have killed more people , their own people in the last century than all wars combined .""","""What does this have to do with nations like England having lower murder rates ?""",,
6123,1633,"""Despite all your hoplophobia , governments have killed more people , their own people in the last century than all wars combined . That is an indisputable fact .""","""What does this have to do with nations like England having lower murder rates ? Try to stay on topic .""",DISAGREE,"""hoplophobia killed more people""","""nations England having lower murder rates ?""",,
6173,1638,"""Democracy determines what is morally acceptable in this country . WE have prositution legalized in Nevada but other states do not accept it . That is democracy . The people decide what is `` right `` and `` wrong `` based upon teh criteria that is conforming to the constituion .""","""Well on this one , I will just say : read jitobears responce .""",AGREE,"""Democracy determines what is morally acceptable in this country . The people decide what is `` right `` and `` wrong `` based upon teh criteria that is conforming to the constituion .""","""on this one , I will just say : read jitobears responce .""",,
6192,1641,"""Nor is it 'natural selection ' at work either , as in both cases the thing that enabled them to survive was not natural . What you have advanced as a proof of evolution actually proves what ? Natural what ? I suppose people with cochlear implants are new species too because they 've learnt to hear .""","""This is retarded . A species would be defined by the genome , not which organs work the way they are supposed to or not .""",DISAGREE,"""Nor is it 'natural selection ' at work either ,""","""A species would be defined by the genome ,""",,
6207,1644,"""show me that evidence .""","""Well , I 'm basing it first and formost on the states which passed ammendments banning same-sex marriage . The percentages in those states were almost completely lower than 80 % , with perhaps one or two exceptions . This indicates that even in the least supportive states , 80 % is usually too high a number . Unfortunately , I can not come up with a good website that lists all of the percentages , but you should be able to look around . This was the least important thing I wrote in that entire post , so I 'm not too worried about it .""",AGREE,"""show me that evidence .""","""I 'm basing it first and formost on the states which passed ammendments banning same-sex marriage .""",,
6231,1648,"""( 3 ) Although Olson effectively demonstrates that there is no reasonable justification for prohibiting same-sex marriage , only 14 % of conservatives agree . What 's going on here ? The answer , as Olson intimates , is religion . Almost one-half of all conservatives believe that the Bible rather than the will of the People should determine public policy in the United States . Those who attend church services weekly supported Proposition 8 by a vote of 84 % to 16 % , whereas those who do not attend church regularly opposed Proposition 8 by a vote of 83 % to 17 % . Olson rejects `` religious teachings that denounce homosexuality as morally wrong `` and believes that the Constitution `` prohibits us from forcing our religious beliefs on others. `` But most conservatives do n't agree with him .""","""Count me as one of those 14 % since he has n't demonstrated anything of the sort . And it is n't imposing our religion on anyone at all just because we rely on scriptural values in determining what is right and wrong in life . This is the greatest corruption of common sense that can be revealed regarding how the humanist thinks . What better way to erase scriptural based morality from the public debate than to assert that just by holding to a biblical value system in life is to impose ones religion on the atheist ? This is the goal and defines the agenda of the atheist as it proves that at every level of public discourse it is their goal to claim that any spiritually based value system which opposes secular humanism , opposes the Constitution which could n't be further from the original intent of the Constitution if it tried . The constitution was neither anti-bible or anti-christian . Nor was it anti-spiritual interpretation or application of the laws of the land which is evident by those very laws which exist and compliment spiritual values of christian americans throughout our history . So your not very interesting opinion piece by these so called intellectuals fail on all counts as they must pervert and corrupt what has always been accepted values in this Country in order to reinterpret history if they hope to succeed in this application .""",DISAGREE,"""Although Olson effectively demonstrates that there is no reasonable justification for prohibiting same-sex marriage , only 14 % of conservatives agree .""","""Count me as one of those 14 % since he has n't demonstrated anything of the sort""",,
6248,1651,"""And indeed , like Dawkins says , without natural selection there is no darwinism ... there is no evolution ...""","""And with natural selection ? Are you trying to get us to accept your conclusions without providing evidence for your premises ? It does n't work .""",DISAGREE,"""And indeed , like Dawkins says , without natural selection there is no darwinism ... there is no evolution ...""","""And with natural selection ?""",,
6274,1655,"""[ Me : ] Herbert Spencer has become famous for his `` Social Darwinism. `` But the irony here is , Spencer was pushing his ideas for more than a decade BEFORE the Origin was published . It is a mischaracterization of history to claim that Spencer 's ideas have anything to do with the `` implications `` of evolution at all .""","""You then cite the Wikipedia entry on Spencer :""",DISAGREE,"""It is a mischaracterization of history to claim that Spencer 's ideas have anything to do with the `` implications `` of evolution at all .""","""You then cite the Wikipedia entry on Spencer :""",,
6277,1656,"""Will you `` allow `` us to focus on ONE thing ? You see , if we have a list of 4 things , and we go through them one by one , we can maybe arrive at the end ! ! ! Crazy thought is n't it !""","""Which thing are you now focusing on ? My God ? All theories relating to a god ? God being knowable or not ?""",DISAGREE,"""You see , if we have a list of 4 things , and we go through them one by one , we can maybe arrive at the end ! ! !""","""All theories relating to a god ? God being knowable or not ?""",,
6301,1660,"""Do you favor Legalizing the Medical use of Marijuana ? http : //www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/medical_marijuana .HTM""","""I say , since there are medical uses for the stuff , the drug is not pure harm ( as the authoritarians assert . ) Marijuana has its benefits and harms , and some of these benefits boil down to a matter of personal preference . Illegalizing it , in effect , dictates a personal preference .""",AGREE,"""Do you favor Legalizing the Medical use of Marijuana""","""since there are medical uses for the stuff , the drug is not pure harm""",,
6317,1664,"""The landscape analogy and collective `` decision-making `` are concepts unfamiliar to biologists , who have tended to focus on single genes acting in linear pathways . This made the work initially difficult to publish , notes Huang . '' It 's hard for biologists to move from thinking about single pathways to thinking about a landscape , which is the mathematical manifestation of the entirety of all the possible pathways , `` he says . '' A single pathway is not a good way to understand a whole process . Our goal has been to understand the driving force behind it. ``""","""Like the docking simulation , in development there is a pre-existing fitness landscape ( the womb ) . Both processes converge on similar endpoints each time it is run , both process are biased to a few endpoints and both processes reach local optima ( e.g . skin cells ) after the process id complete . http : //mybroadband.co.za/vb/picture .... pictureid=1857 Figure 1 : Similarities between development and a docking simulation employing a memetic algorithm . There are certainly many parallels between our own designed simulated docking runs and the development of life .""",AGREE,"""It 's hard for biologists to move from thinking about single pathways to thinking about a landscape , which is the mathematical manifestation of the entirety of all the possible pathways""","""There are certainly many parallels between our own designed simulated docking runs and the development of life .""",,
6352,1678,"""Just a question for you - hypothetical What would happen if we took a bunch of people , stuck them on a planet with no access to any knowledge of God or Christ - and say we left them there for a couple hundred thousand years . Are they more likely to come to the conclusion that Genesis 1 & amp ; 2 happened , some other random story of religious creation , or something a little closer to what scientists have come up with ? Be honest !""","""I 'm always honest ! It would become a completely atheist planet in no time - what makes the earth different is Christ 's teaching and actions while he was here , and the following ACTS of those who witnessed it . His Disciples ( mainly Peter ) were scared little rabbits while he was alive , and after his resurection , were n't afraid of anything . That historical fact and other similar ones have had quite an impact for Christianity . The debate about whether God exists or not is n't only about the origin/science debates .""",DISAGREE,"""hypothetical What would happen if we took a bunch of people , stuck them on a planet with no access to any knowledge of God or Christ""","""I 'm always honest ! It would become a completely atheist planet in no time - what makes the earth different is Christ 's teaching and actions while he was here ,""",,
6357,1679,"""5 ) Moving on , if we look teh other way , evolution is actually a theory not physically proven , one of it s theory suggested that human started out in Africa while another in Asia , but if u look at them none resembles the other and none have a characteristic of an animal .""","""And of course , the theory of gravity is n't `` physically `` proven either . Neither is the heliocentric theory or atomic theory or the germ theory of disease . However , evolution has been observed to occur and the current theories are the best explanations that we have for the observations . As far as your mangling of the `` Out of Africa `` theory , it would be nice if you actually learned what you are talking about before you babble such nonsense .""",DISAGREE,"""Moving on , if we look teh other way , evolution is actually a theory not physically proven""","""And of course , the theory of gravity is n't `` physically `` proven either .""",,
6362,1680,"""The National Guard interpretation of the militia is totally false . The NG is a standing army . The militia is not . The NG can be federalized . The militia can not . They wear the same uniforms . The officers all know each other and play golf together . If the NG is the militia , then I want to have stock plies of weapons at schools , hospitals , libraries , and churches . No federalization of NG . Complete and total seperation of NG from federal influence , communication , and socializatlion , right down to even different uniforms .""","""We are saying the same thing .""",AGREE,"""National Guard interpretation of the militia is totally false . The NG is a standing army . The militia is not .""","""We are saying the same thing .""",,
6372,1682,"""Please provide evidence that 'there are more fornicators are shacking up ' instead of getting married . Or , is that more of your unsupported claims that you are so fond of . As for perversions , you seem to be very unhealthily concerned with other people 's sex lives .""","""There are more people who live together as couples now than say 20 or 30 years ago . If you are a middle aged man and do not realise this then you should get out more .. if you are much younger then you can take it from me or google the relevant phrase . Whether there is much difference between now and a couple of years ago ... dont know .""",DISAGREE,"""Please provide evidence that 'there are more fornicators are shacking up ' instead of getting married .""","""There are more people who live together as couples now than say 20 or 30 years ago .""",,
6373,1682,"""Please provide evidence that 'there are more fornicators are shacking up ' instead of getting married . Or , is that more of your unsupported claims that you are so fond of . As for perversions , you seem to be very unhealthily concerned with other people 's sex lives .""","""There are more people who live together as couples now than say 20 or 30 years ago . If you are a middle aged man and do not realise this then you should get out more .. if you are much younger then you can take it from me or google the relevant phrase . Whether there is much difference between now and a couple of years ago ... dont know .""",DISAGREE,"""Please provide evidence that 'there are more fornicators are shacking up ' instead of getting married""","""There are more people who live together as couples now than say 20 or 30 years ago""",,
6384,1686,"""Some theists are willing to ignore such discussions . It has nothing to do with whether God exists . As previously stated , this thread topic is meaningless because of our inequality to God and the illogicalness of the question . We do not and will never understand Him totally .""","""Good , then you go back to the first point , which is that you can not rationally claim to have knowledge of the unknowable . So yes , you 're back to either being rational and not accepting god , or being irrational and accepting knowledge of the unknowable . I do n't make the rules Jim . -Mach""",DISAGREE,"""Some theists are willing to ignore such discussions . It has nothing to do with whether God exists .""","""So yes , you 're back to either being rational and not accepting god""",,
6483,1736,"""You see , I could replace any mumbo jumbo made up stuff and replace the placebo with it . Then by your logic , we could prove anything has an effect on anything else IN COMBINATION with something that actually works ( you know , logical AND )""","""I see !""",DISAGREE,"""could replace any mumbo jumbo made up stuff and replace the placebo with it .""","""I see""",,
6485,1737,"""Is that really the case ? I do n't think so . Look at the actual benefits given to married people . Are any of them actually about recognizing a relationship between a man and a woman ? No , they 're not . They 're all about making it easier to build a home , a family , and a life together . That 's the real intent of the marriage laws , and there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders .""","""I believe it to be the case that marriage existed prior to any legal recognition of the relationship . If this is true , it seems reasonable to conclude that the state , for whatever reasons , wanted to encourage that particular relationship . Now , if it did so in order to foster an atmosphere where family life can best be nurtured and brought to maturity , that 's well and good . But I still disagree with your conclusion that `` there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders. `` As a general proposition , I agree with this . Two individuals can certainly build a life together without any encouragement from the state . However , in a strict legal sense , there certainly are requirements one must fulfill in order to receive the benefits the state wishes to confer . In other words , legislatures have determined not only that they want to foster and encourage an atmosphere conducive for family life , they have determined that the best way to accomplish this is by encouraging the relationship to be between two individuals of the opposite sex . Now , I will probably say this more than once so that I ensure it has been taken into account : my primary purpose in starting this thread ( and my other posts ) is not WHETHER the definition of marriage should be changed , but if it is to be changed , WHO should change it .""",DISAGREE,"""benefits given to married people , there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders .""","""But I still disagree with your conclusion that `` there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing""",,
6487,1737,"""Is that really the case ? I do n't think so . Look at the actual benefits given to married people . Are any of them actually about recognizing a relationship between a man and a woman ? No , they 're not . They 're all about making it easier to build a home , a family , and a life together . That 's the real intent of the marriage laws , and there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders .""","""I believe it to be the case that marriage existed prior to any legal recognition of the relationship . If this is true , it seems reasonable to conclude that the state , for whatever reasons , wanted to encourage that particular relationship . Now , if it did so in order to foster an atmosphere where family life can best be nurtured and brought to maturity , that 's well and good . But I still disagree with your conclusion that `` there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders. `` As a general proposition , I agree with this . Two individuals can certainly build a life together without any encouragement from the state . However , in a strict legal sense , there certainly are requirements one must fulfill in order to receive the benefits the state wishes to confer . In other words , legislatures have determined not only that they want to foster and encourage an atmosphere conducive for family life , they have determined that the best way to accomplish this is by encouraging the relationship to be between two individuals of the opposite sex . Now , I will probably say this more than once so that I ensure it has been taken into account : my primary purpose in starting this thread ( and my other posts ) is not WHETHER the definition of marriage should be changed , but if it is to be changed , WHO should change it .""",DISAGREE,"""Is that really the case ? Are any of them actually about recognizing a relationship between a man and a woman ? No , they 're not . making it easier to build a home , a family , and a life together there 's nothing about building a life together that requires the participants to be of differing genders .""","""I believe it to be the case it seems reasonable to conclude that the state , for whatever reasons , wanted to encourage that particular relationship . if it did so in order to foster an atmosphere where family life can best be nurtured and brought to maturity , that 's well and good `` legislatures have determined the best way to accomplish this is by encouraging the relationship to be between two individuals of the opposite sex .""",,
6500,1740,"""This judge stated that it was UN-Constitutional ( according to California Constitution ) to limit marriage to opposite-gender couples . So . . . . . why did we vote in 2000 on the definition of marriage ? And since the majority stated that marriage was between one man and one woman - why was that not taken into consideration with this ruling ? Why is it that when the people speak their voice , it is IGNORED ? ? Not only the mayor of SF - but this Superior Court judge as well ?""","""State-level governments are largely worthless , in my opinion . It is complete absurdity to allow Constitutions to be ammended based on the vote of the people . People as a whole are largely biased , uninformed , and care only about the wellbeing of the majority , persecuting the minority any chance they get . Simply put , the will of the people is too often to benefit the majority and persecute the minority , and this can be seen everywhere throughout history . The will of the people often deserves to be not only ignored but put in a little can and crushed , for the voice of the people is not the voice of the people at all ; it is the voice of the majority . I can not know the intentions of the creators of the California goverment when they created their judicial system , but if it was anything like the intentions of the founders of our nation , then the judges are doing precisely what it was intended to do : judge laws which persecute the minority , assuring that the government can not engage in such persecution without a whole lot of effort and not having to fear retaliation . If the point of judges was simply to give in to whatever pesecution 51 % of the population wishes to force upon the other 49 % , then our government would be tyrannical in no time . You may feel that a bad precedent was set , but I consider it a far worse precedent for a judge to have given into the majority , to ignore what he feels is a destruction of freedom and equality , simply because it is popular to do so . I would also recommend that the California Constitution be judged based on the fact that it likely has conflicting statements , for example , it may state that everyone must recieve equal protection under the law , of which this is a clear denial .""",DISAGREE,"""judge stated that it was UN-Constitutional ( according to California Constitution ) to limit marriage to opposite-gender couples .""","""State-level governments are largely worthless , in my opinion""",,
6518,1746,"""Can you tell me how it is that gene transferred horizontally ( without going through selection ) validates darwinism , which says all beneficial traits must pass through selection in order to be adapted ? Reply With Quote""","""Genes transfered horizontally are as subject to selection as anyother form of gene . Once intergrated into the recieving genome they are simply one more heritable element and if they alter the phenotypes ( many are either neutral or even inactivatee ) then of course they are subject to selection . Why do you think otherwise ? Remember that horizontal transfer is a rare event roughly on a par with ordinary mutations .""",DISAGREE,"""Can you tell me how it is that gene transferred horizontally ( without going through selection ) validates darwinism , which says all beneficial traits must pass through selection in order to be adapted ? Reply With Quote""","""Genes transfered horizontally are as subject to selection as anyother form of gene . Once intergrated into the recieving genome they are simply one more heritable element and if they alter the phenotypes ( many are either neutral or even inactivatee ) then of course they are subject to selection""",,
6542,1751,"""If I was a creationist , I 'd try to avoid discussing the merits of my belief . Assume that if not A , therefore B. Creationism is true because evolution is false !""","""Thank the lord you are not a creationist ( pardon the pun ) . The method you referred to above is known as deductive reasoning , and is known to be a very valid way of finding a solution even by most 3rd graders . Also , I look at the Bible as a written record of what actually happened as well as the holy book . Seeing as scientists have believed the journals of young Native Americans from a hundred years ago , I do n't see the problem of believing the written journal of hundreds of very wise men and women , including God himself .""",DISAGREE,"""If I was a creationist , I 'd try to avoid discussing the merits of my belief""","""Thank the lord you are not a creationist""",,
6550,1752,"""http : //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane""","""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania . They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues . I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""",DISAGREE,"""http //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane""","""Interesting set in Pittsburgh city known for violence those that were shot and counted in this `` study were known gang members shot by their intended victims""",,
6545,1752,"""http : //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane""","""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania . They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues . I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""",DISAGREE,""": //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane""","""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , ``""",,
6559,1753,"""Even though you do n't have the proof to support human creation by God , you want someone else to supply that proof about evolution ?""","""And that is why they are wrong . They do n't understand science . Science is not the presentation of proof but explanations of the evidence that have been tested .""",DISAGREE,"""Even though you do n't have the proof to support human creation by God""","""Science is not the presentation of proof but explanations of the evidence that have been tested .""",,
6567,1754,"""Yes , I was a fetus , and at that point in time I was NOT technically a human being . I had the potential to become a human being but I was n't not one . I was human cells dividing .""","""So you 're claiming that you `` transformed `` from part of your mother to a human . So you 're claiming that you were once almost your mom 's arm or leg ? lol ! Biologically , this is simply a farce statement .""",DISAGREE,"""I was a fetus , and at that point in time I was NOT technically a human being .""","""So you 're claiming that you `` transformed `` from part of your mother to a human .""",,
6573,1754,"""Yes , I was a fetus , and at that point in time I was NOT technically a human being . I had the potential to become a human being but I was n't not one . I was human cells dividing .""","""So you 're claiming that you `` transformed `` from part of your mother to a human . So you 're claiming that you were once almost your mom 's arm or leg ? lol ! Biologically , this is simply a farce statement .""",DISAGREE,"""at that point in time I was NOT technically a human being""","""So you 're claiming that you were once almost your mom 's arm or leg ?""",,
6585,1755,"""Because you know that the living chimpanzee that shares 98 % of our genetic code , and is living evidence that such shared DNA is in no way evidence of human descent at all completely nullifies and negates all of the claims made by evolutionists that these genetic markers in long dead animals could possibly ever be proven to be our ancestors .""","""Because .....""",DISAGREE,"""the living chimpanzee that shares 98 % of our genetic code ,""","""Because""",,
6601,1757,"""Here 's an analogy Marc9000 : Ridiculously Absurd Comment User : Refutation Marc9000 : AtHeIsT !""","""I am not sure Marc will show up here much . I noticed he is at 'debating christianity ' and is a '4forums refugee ' , where he had 10 people jumping on him at once .""",AGREE,"""Here 's an analogy Marc9000 : Ridiculously Absurd Comment User :""","""I am not sure Marc will show up here much . I noticed he is at 'debating""",,
6610,1765,"""Direct evidence for allele frequency change is freely available for all to see .""","""If that was not possible evolution would be impossible , it is direct evidence that evolution is n't impossible not that evolution exists . The same can be said for adaptation , natural selection , and mutation . They are all concepts that evolution stands on but their existance does not necessitate evolutions . For instance if I had the theory : when heavy ceramic objects fall on top of one another a very few super energetic particles fly outwards and cause leaves to fall . I could offer the fact that leaves and bricks do in fact fall , as `` evidence `` for my theory but it would not be in any way that the rising and setting of the sun was not evidence for both rotation and orbit .""",DISAGREE,"""Direct evidence""","""one another a very few super energetic particles fly outwards and cause leaves to fall . I could offer the fact that leaves and bricks do in fact fall , as `` evidence `` for my theory but it would not be in any way that the rising and setting of the sun was not evidence for both rotation and orbit .""",,
6628,1769,"""During these millions of years , they will be undeveloped , simply masses attached to the dinosaur , and totally useless .""","""Do you have any evidence that this is so ? Why would they be totally useless - is it just because you ca n't imagine a use ? Why do you think that a small , quick dinosaur with relatively long arms ( not like the short useless arms of T. rex that could n't even reach its mouth ) with three very sharp claws would be useless ? Look at this picture . http : //research.amnh.org/vertpaleo/feather18.jpg Those do n't look like totally useless masses to me . The problem is that you imagine that wings sprouted from nothing and must have been useless until they were fully formed as you think they should be . That 's not the case . They did n't spring from nothing as useless masses . They were the front limbs , with quite impressively clawed , grasping hands . They could have even been used for climbing , as is the case of hoatzins that have claws on their wings until they get their primary flight feathers . The could have been used for grasping food that they were able to catch because of the speed assist from imprefectly formed wings . You propose yet another `` I just ca n't imagine how it happened so it must not be true `` creationist argument .""",DISAGREE,"""During these millions of years , they will be undeveloped , simply masses attached to the dinosaur , and totally useless .""","""Do you have any evidence that this is so ? Why would they be totally useless - is it just because you ca n't imagine a use ?""",,
6635,1770,"""Not only can the qualifications of judges to evaluate such studies be seriously questioned , but leaving such matters to the discretion of judges could result in a serious imbalance of government powers .""","""So you 're against the Supreme Court outright ?""",DISAGREE,"""discretion of judges""","""Supreme Court outright ?""",,
6643,1772,"""I do n't think we have any , sorry . Our gun control advocates have surrendered , finding that their argument is so flawed that it is absolutely insupportable . Those who advocated less than lethal weapons have also been proven fools . Less than lethal weapons have been proven to be less than effective weapons . If you are in a situation where you have to use a weapon , you want a weapon that you KNOW will stop the bad guy , not a weapon that you think has a high probability of stopping the bad guy .""","""Not true . I believe in `` some `` gun control measures . However , I also believe in my right keep and bear arms , and use such arms as I see fit in defense of myself and others . It 's not an all or none thing in my book .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't think we have any , sorry . Our gun control advocates have surrendered , finding that their argument is so flawed that it is absolutely insupportable . Those who advocated less than lethal weapons have also been proven fools .""","""Not true . I believe in `` some `` gun control measures . However , I also believe in my right keep and bear arms , and use such arms as I see fit in defense of myself and others . It 's not an all or none thing in my book""",,
6642,1772,"""I do n't think we have any , sorry . Our gun control advocates have surrendered , finding that their argument is so flawed that it is absolutely insupportable . Those who advocated less than lethal weapons have also been proven fools . Less than lethal weapons have been proven to be less than effective weapons . If you are in a situation where you have to use a weapon , you want a weapon that you KNOW will stop the bad guy , not a weapon that you think has a high probability of stopping the bad guy .""","""Not true . I believe in `` some `` gun control measures . However , I also believe in my right keep and bear arms , and use such arms as I see fit in defense of myself and others . It 's not an all or none thing in my book .""",DISAGREE,"""Less than lethal weapons have been proven to be less than effective weapons""","""It 's not an all or none thing in my book .""",,
6654,1776,"""Creationists and evolutionists , Christians and non-Christians all have the same evidence—the same facts . Think about it : we all have the same earth , the same fossil layers , the same animals and plants , the same stars—the facts are all the same . The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts . And why do we interpret facts differently ? Because we start with different presuppositions . These are things that are assumed to be true , without being able to prove them . These then become the basis for other conclusions . All reasoning is based on presuppositions ( also called axioms ) . This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events .""","""This opening paragraph sets the stage for the rest of the article , and on the face of it there would n't seem to be much to disagree with . We all do live on the same earth under the same stars , and we do interpret facts according to axioms .""",AGREE,"""Creationists and evolutionists , The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts""","""there would n't seem to be much to disagree with""",,
6665,1786,"""We are n't that rich , and both of us our still finishing up our college degrees and are under enormous student loan burden . He supported my decision to abort as neither of us would have anywhere near the time or money to support a baby ( hence our use of contraception ) , and neither of us have taken a full job in our fields yet to be able to provide that money to pay for the loans let alone a child .""","""Come on , people . You do n't butcher an innocent baby for the conveience or sins of the parents . There 's plenty of people in the world who would have adopted that baby . And if no one else would have , I would have .""",DISAGREE,"""We are n't that rich , and both of us our still finishing up our college degrees and are under enormous student loan burden""","""You do n't butcher an innocent baby for the conveience or sins of the parents .""",,
6663,1786,"""We are n't that rich , and both of us our still finishing up our college degrees and are under enormous student loan burden . He supported my decision to abort as neither of us would have anywhere near the time or money to support a baby ( hence our use of contraception ) , and neither of us have taken a full job in our fields yet to be able to provide that money to pay for the loans let alone a child .""","""Come on , people . You do n't butcher an innocent baby for the conveience or sins of the parents . There 's plenty of people in the world who would have adopted that baby . And if no one else would have , I would have .""",DISAGREE,"""neither of us would have anywhere near the time or money to support a baby""","""Come on , people . You do n't butcher an innocent baby for the conveience or sins of the parents .""",,
6677,1788,"""There is just one thing however . The coelacanths found are different from those in the fossil record . Further , ALL evidence pointed to them being extinct , until we found other evidence , and we changed it . And , to top it off , the article says NEARLY extinct , not COMPLETELY . Although , this article was of course written after the coelocanths were re-discovered . Of course , this has absolutely nothing to do with the theory of evolution , which explains the mechanisms responsible for the change of allele frequencies in populations over time .""","""They do not differ in any significant way . The living species today closely resemble the fossils . The prediction was made based on the mindset that everything evolved from a common ancestor over billions of years . Furthermore , it was based upon the fossil record , which is supposedly shows how everything evolved .""",DISAGREE,"""The coelacanths found are different from those in the fossil record""","""They do not differ in any significant way""",,
6701,1793,"""`` The belief that there are approximately 20,000 gun-control laws in the United States has become received wisdom ..... But as it turns out , there appears to be little basis for the number ....""","""SNIP This opinion piece was put forth by the Violence Policy Center , the same people who opposed all forms of firearms safety training and gun locks , because they might encourage people to feel that they 're more capable of safely operation a firearm . The Violence Policy Center also pushed the idea of an `` assault weapons ban `` because it was easier than a handgun ban , claiming that the uneducated people are unable to tell what is a machine gun and what is n't a machine gun , making passage of such a law all the easier .""",DISAGREE,"""The belief that there are approximately 20,000 gun-control laws in the United States has become received wisdom ..... But as it turns out , there appears to be little basis for the number ....""","""This opinion piece was put forth by the Violence Policy Center , the same people who opposed all forms of firearms safety training and gun locks , because they might encourage people to feel that they 're more capable of safely operation a firearm .""",,
6709,1794,"""Why ? Because police cars attached to the Washington MPD ’ s Civil Disturbance Unit had escorted the SEIU protesters ’ buses to Baer ’ s home . Such cross-jurisdictional escort activity is not uncommon for both departments according to Friz and Metro Police Department spokesperson Officer Eric Frost . Still , the District police did not inform their colleagues of what was about to happen in one of their Maryland neighborhoods .""","""So cross jurisdictional escort is a fairly common occurrence in the area . You will note that it is not the local cops talking about not being informed .... it is the author of the article whining about it .""",DISAGREE,"""Such cross-jurisdictional escort activity is not uncommon for both departments according to Friz and Metro Police Department spokesperson""","""So cross jurisdictional escort is a fairly common occurrence in the area .""",,
6707,1794,"""Why ? Because police cars attached to the Washington MPD ’ s Civil Disturbance Unit had escorted the SEIU protesters ’ buses to Baer ’ s home . Such cross-jurisdictional escort activity is not uncommon for both departments according to Friz and Metro Police Department spokesperson Officer Eric Frost . Still , the District police did not inform their colleagues of what was about to happen in one of their Maryland neighborhoods .""","""So cross jurisdictional escort is a fairly common occurrence in the area . You will note that it is not the local cops talking about not being informed .... it is the author of the article whining about it .""",DISAGREE,"""Such cross-jurisdictional escort activity is not uncommon for both departments Still , the District police did not inform their colleagues of what was about to happen in one of their Maryland neighborhoods .""","""So cross jurisdictional escort is a fairly common occurrence in the area . it is the author of the article whining about it .""",,
6711,1795,"""Anchorage Daily News , Anchorage , Alaska , 11/4/2006 WHEN MATTHEW SCHNEIDER pulled into his driveway and got out of his truck , three teenagers approached and began an altercation . According to authorities , Schneider told the youths to vacate his property , but they began assaulting him , even slamming the truck door on his head . Schneider , who has a concealed carry permit , reached for his .4o pistol and fired twice at his assailants . '' I thought they were going to kill me if I did n't do something , `` Schneider said . Two suspects fled , one of them wounded , while a third collapsed . Schneider says he prayed for the fallen suspect to survive , but he died at the scene""","""I thought I 'd give Brady and Penfold a chance to tell us what a bad man this guy was for defending himself like that . BTW , here in Alaska he did n't need to have a concealed carry permit . Here , if you can legally own a gun you can carry it with a few exceptions . Merry Christmas""",AGREE,"""got out of his truck , three teenagers approached began an altercation told the youths to vacate they began assaulting him Schneider , who has a concealed carry permit fired twice at his assailants '' thought they were going to kill me `` suspects fled third collapsed died at the scene""","""defending himself he did n't need to have a concealed carry permit can legally own a gun can carry it with a few exceptions""",,
6712,1795,"""Anchorage Daily News , Anchorage , Alaska , 11/4/2006 WHEN MATTHEW SCHNEIDER pulled into his driveway and got out of his truck , three teenagers approached and began an altercation . According to authorities , Schneider told the youths to vacate his property , but they began assaulting him , even slamming the truck door on his head . Schneider , who has a concealed carry permit , reached for his .4o pistol and fired twice at his assailants . '' I thought they were going to kill me if I did n't do something , `` Schneider said . Two suspects fled , one of them wounded , while a third collapsed . Schneider says he prayed for the fallen suspect to survive , but he died at the scene""","""I thought I 'd give Brady and Penfold a chance to tell us what a bad man this guy was for defending himself like that . BTW , here in Alaska he did n't need to have a concealed carry permit . Here , if you can legally own a gun you can carry it with a few exceptions . Merry Christmas""",AGREE,"""Two suspects fled , one of them wounded , while a third collapsed . Schneider says he prayed for the fallen suspect to survive , but he died at the scene""","""I thought I 'd give Brady and Penfold a chance to tell us what a bad man this guy was for defending himself like that .""",,
6719,1796,"""Hmm , yeah , I never got sadness from a dove 's call . { shrug } Well , more familiar animals , like our domesticated pals show their emotions all the time . Dogs are full of emotion . Just leave the house and they get instantly depressed . Seperation anxiety in dogs is profound . I know my dog expresses his utter joy every time I grab the leash . He knows we 're going somewhere besides the boring house . If he sees me playing with another dog or giving the other dog a treat , he 'll get really jealous and you can tell .""","""I see your point and this goes back to my reply that emotions really show nothing as far as being spiritual .""",AGREE,"""I never got sadness from a dove 's call . { shrug } Well , more familiar animals""","""I see your point""",,
6723,1797,"""and decided to scrape you out . Think about all the things you enjoy now , they would never happenif your mother decided to just throw you away . Abortion is inhumane , and iresponsible . If you made a child through sex , then is on you to keep it .""","""And here 's an example why our culture has not embraced logic yet . What if your parents had a headache when they were going to have sex and decided not to and you were n't concieved ? Think about all the things you enjoy now , they would 've never happened if your parents had a headache and decided not to have sex . If they did decide to abort me , it would 've been before I existed . You can only legally abort in the first and second trimester , and that was before I existed . '' I `` came to exist somewhere in the third trimester , when I gained mental existance and awareness . Before that , the embryo was just a cellular watersack . Your logic is extremely flawed , more so that most of the pro-lifers on these forums . I would think a bit deeper about your position before coming and posting it onto here .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion is inhumane , and iresponsible . If you made a child through sex ,""","""I would think a bit deeper about your position before coming and posting it onto here .""",,
6731,1798,"""15 . REQUIRE ALL NEW GUNS TO HAVE MICROSTAMPING CAPABILITY BY A DATE CERTAIN A federal microstamping requirement would allow pistols used in crime around the country to be traced by police from the cartridges left behind at crime scenes.69""","""So even though microstamping is unproven , and the whole idea was proposed by the owner of this technology , it should still be implemented ?""",DISAGREE,"""A federal microstamping requirement would allow pistols used in crime around the country to be traced by police from the cartridges left behind at crime""","""So even though microstamping is unproven , and the whole idea was proposed by the owner of this technology , it should still be implemented ?""",,
6739,1799,"""As a matter of perspective on the above ; Roe is , was and always will be the historical reference for an example of `` judicial activism. ``""","""In fact , just the opposite is true . Have you ever read the entire decision ? If you did , you would have a very different conclusion . In point of fact , Roe is a model of judicial restraint . Mr. Justice Blackmun takes great pains to point out in the opening of the majority opinion that there are many competing theories and answers to the metaphysical question of when personhood begins , and that those who hold to each of those positions is quite passionate in its defense . Therefore , the opinion takes great pains to point out , the Court is in no position to choose one from among all the competing theories and stamp it with the government 's imprimatur . Ultimately , the decision points out , the choice must be left where it properly belongs , in the hands of each individual woman . The later term abortions that the decision discusses , which form a minuscule percentage of those performed , were not declared to be illegal or unconstitutional in any way whatsoever . The Court simply said that , in order to protect the health of the woman , the state could prescribe the site of the abortion . Did the decision go far enough ? Not really , in my opinion . I would have wanted the Court to eliminate all restrictions whatsoever and leave the choice strictly up to the woman involved . Given the climate of 1973 , that was ground the Court was not willing to plow .""",DISAGREE,"""Roe is , was and always will be the historical reference for an example of `` judicial activism. ``""","""Roe is a model of judicial restraint .""",,
6749,1801,"""however , like alcohol , it is impossible to convince someone addicted about how their addiction hurts them .""","""Why do AA meetings exist then ? If the addicts have n't been convinced their addiction is hurting them , why are they going to the meetings ? -Wez""",DISAGREE,"""like alcohol , it is impossible to convince someone addicted about how their addiction hurts them .""","""Why do AA meetings exist then ? If the addicts have n't been convinced their addiction is hurting them""",,
6771,1806,"""3 ) Reptile develops bird feet . These are far greater hinderances than assests , they go away .""","""Why would they go away ? Birds still have bird feet . How are they a hinderance ? Have you looked at the feet of tridactyl dinosaurs ? Are you aware that dinosaur tracks were at first thought to be the tracks of large birds ? Would n't `` bird feet `` be beneficial to an animal that lived in trees ?""",DISAGREE,"""Reptile develops bird feet .""","""tracks of large birds ? Would n't `` bird feet `` be beneficial to an animal that lived in trees""",,
6783,1809,"""The criminalization of abortion was the real abuse of power . It was mostly done by a few sexist and political oppertunist members of the AMA to stop women from practicing medicine and by xenophobic/racist Protestant groups who feared a non-white/non-Protestant majority here in America after the Civil War cleared out many of them .""","""So the intent hiding behind abortion laws all along was to keep women in the gutter . There was not any legititamte concern for the unborn fetus . It was all about how they could keep women down . Tell me then , would someone who supports a ban on partial birth abortion do so simply because they want to repress women ?""",DISAGREE,"""The criminalization of abortion was the real abuse of power .""","""Tell me then , would someone who supports a ban on partial birth abortion do so simply because they want to repress women ?""",,
6786,1810,"""Yeah of course it 's good for relationships , being religious does n't mean abstaining from sex ( ..... in most religions ) . I 'm just saying that if you 're religious you 're more likely to keep sex for relationships and taking it more seriously ( as aposed to having sex with someone you 've just met at a nightclub/party while you were drunk ) . Yeah , I gues criminalization would make it worse in this day and age , but like I said , in a perfect world casual sex would be minimised and overpopulation ( through unwanted pregnancies ) would be too . But , we do n't live in a perfect world and there is more to overpopulation issue than the above .""","""Very sorry for the above confusion , its_just_me is my fiancee and I forgot to log in as myself ( thinking_person ) before writing the above quoted post . Duh . Was n't thinking sorry ( haha )""",DISAGREE,"""Yeah of course it 's good for relationships""","""Very sorry for the above confusion , its_just_me is my fiancee and I forgot to log in as myself ( thinking_person ) before writing the above quoted post .""",,
6784,1810,"""Yeah of course it 's good for relationships , being religious does n't mean abstaining from sex ( ..... in most religions ) . I 'm just saying that if you 're religious you 're more likely to keep sex for relationships and taking it more seriously ( as aposed to having sex with someone you 've just met at a nightclub/party while you were drunk ) . Yeah , I gues criminalization would make it worse in this day and age , but like I said , in a perfect world casual sex would be minimised and overpopulation ( through unwanted pregnancies ) would be too . But , we do n't live in a perfect world and there is more to overpopulation issue than the above .""","""Very sorry for the above confusion , its_just_me is my fiancee and I forgot to log in as myself ( thinking_person ) before writing the above quoted post . Duh . Was n't thinking sorry ( haha )""",DISAGREE,"""there is more to overpopulation issue than the above .""","""sorry for the above confusion""",,
6806,1816,"""and you win the PINK PANTIES award ! I got news for you PUNK - my family fled the Nazi 's on foot in WWII""","""Well if that is n't what you meant then you should n't have worded it in a way that could be misinterpreted to mean that gun ownership is tied to serving in the military .""",DISAGREE,"""and you win the PINK PANTIES award ! I got news for you PUNK - my family fled the Nazi 's on foot in WWII""","""Well if that is n't what you meant then you should n't have worded it in a way that could be misinterpreted to mean that gun ownership is tied to serving in the military .""",,
6825,1821,"""I think he meant that the `` Constitution goes out the window `` as far as Tither 's opinion is concerned not that Tither actually violated the Constitution .""","""And yet you have no problem with this law Galileo ?""",DISAGREE,"""I think he meant that the `` Constitution goes out the window""","""And yet you have no problem with this law Galileo ?""",,
6842,1825,"""But a fetus in the womb is far more important than the lives and health of these women .""","""WOW simone , are you kidding me ? You will use this story as an example of how dangerous giving birth is on this American forum by referring to a story from Sub Saharan Africa ? And you consider this a rational argument ? Here 's another quote from your link : Fistulas are a scourge of the poor , affecting two million women and girls , mostly in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia So tell us , PLEASE ! ! ! How is this an argument which justifies abortions in America where Fistulas is virtually unknown as a result of child birth ? Tell me how this quoted section below applies to any aspect of medical care in the USA . The women filled most of Ward 2 , a long , one-story building with a cement floor and two rows of closely spaced beds against opposite walls . All had suffered from obstructed labor , meaning that their babies were too big or in the wrong position to pass through the birth canal . If prolonged , obstructed labor often kills the baby , which may then soften enough to fit through the pelvis , so that the mother delivers a corpse . Obstructed labor can kill the mother , too , or crush her bladder , uterus and vagina between her pelvic bones and the baby & # 8217 ; s skull . The injured tissue dies , leaving a fistula : a hole that lets urine stream out constantly through the vagina . In some cases , the rectum is damaged and stool leaks out . Some women also have nerve damage in the legs . One of the most striking things about the women in Ward 2 was how small they were . Many stood barely five feet tall , with slight frames and narrow hips , which may have contributed to their problems . Girls not fully grown , or women stunted by malnutrition , often have small pelvises that make them prone to obstructed labor .""",DISAGREE,"""the lives and health of these women .""","""If prolonged , obstructed labor often kills the baby , Girls not fully grown , or women stunted by malnutrition , often have small pelvises that make them prone to obstructed labor .""",,
6858,1829,"""This would also explain why evolutionists can not give us any example of random mutations that could lead to cumulative selection -- because they do n't exist . S""","""Look up the evolution of colour vision in primates . It 's my personal favourite - but what do you think ?""",DISAGREE,"""evolutionists can not give us any example of random mutations that could lead to cumulative selection""","""Look up the evolution of colour vision in primates .""",,
6862,1830,"""I know it 's almost as silly as thinking gay marriage will undermine heterosexual marriage .""","""Do you think that being allowed to marry your favorite sheep would undermine the institution of marriage ? How about the ability to marry multiple partners ? Or do you think that nothing is capable of undermining the institution of marriage ? Just trying to gauge your level of sincerity . Â…Â…Â… . And sanity .""",DISAGREE,"""silly as thinking gay marriage will undermine heterosexual marriage .""","""Do you think that being allowed to marry your favorite sheep would undermine the institution of marriage ?""",,
6871,1832,"""Doesnt look like getting rid of gun control is DC is working out so well""","""So why is this killing in DC on the news , when so many previous ones were ignored and treated like they did n't exist ?""",AGREE,"""Doesnt look like getting rid of gun control is DC is working out so well""","""why is this killing in DC on the news , when so many previous ones were ignored and treated like they did n't exist ?""",,
6878,1834,"""Even though the Bible is not a scientific text book and does n't purport to be , nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate . In addition , many of the scientific ideas you are so impressed with are nothing new to the Bible . It was speaking of these things long before modern science spoke of them .""","""If the Bible is not scientific and does n't purport to be , why are you here parading it as a book filled with scientific data that is in no way scientifically inaccurate ? That 's quite the dichotomy . Is your faith in its veracity that weak ? Waxy""",DISAGREE,"""Even though the Bible is not a scientific text book and does n't purport to be , nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate""","""If the Bible is not scientific and does n't purport to be , why are you here parading it as a book filled with scientific data that is in no way scientifically inaccurate ?""",,
6876,1834,"""Even though the Bible is not a scientific text book and does n't purport to be , nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate . In addition , many of the scientific ideas you are so impressed with are nothing new to the Bible . It was speaking of these things long before modern science spoke of them .""","""If the Bible is not scientific and does n't purport to be , why are you here parading it as a book filled with scientific data that is in no way scientifically inaccurate ? That 's quite the dichotomy . Is your faith in its veracity that weak ? Waxy""",DISAGREE,"""Bible is not a scientific text book and does n't purport to be , nowhere is it scientifically inaccurate . In addition , many of the scientific ideas you are so impressed with are nothing new to the Bible .""","""why are you here parading it as a book filled with scientific data that is in no way scientifically inaccurate ? That 's quite the dichotomy . Is your faith in its veracity that weak ? Waxy""",,
6884,1835,"""If there are many people reading this that already believe in evolution , or for that matter , believe in biblical creationism , then it is important to keep in mind that the people appealing to science have biases at work , regardless of how objectively rationalistic they present themselves .""","""Well , I do n't believe in evolution . I believe in things for which I have no evidence . And while it is true that everyone has bias , using correct science and the process of peer review works to eliminate . Not all is perfect , and people are people , but overall the system works . Not a lot of bad science gets through . In the case of `` creation science `` we know that there is no science involved . Only talk that sounds scientific . There is no hypothesis , prediction or testing . Only ad hoc stories constructed of selected bits of evidence to support the foregone conclusion .""",DISAGREE,"""it is important to keep in mind that the people appealing to science have biases at work , regardless of how objectively rationalistic they present themselves .""","""while it is true that everyone has bias , using correct science and the process of peer review works to eliminate . Not all is perfect , and people are people , but overall the system works""",,
6887,1836,"""A newborn baby can not think mentally like an adult , but does that make him/her a less valuable life ? if a woman is raped , and a two year old is raped , is it not an equally bad crime considering the two year old did n't understand what was happening ? I have the same view on abortion .""","""I think you misunderstand my view . I think that a third-term fetus is already sufficiently a person , so I would CERTAINLY consider a newborn baby a person . To me , a person is one who has the most basic , rudimentary sense of thought and emotion . A late-term fetus , from my point of view , is no less a person than an Einstein . An Einstein , of course , is much more useful to a much greater number of people , but from the simple point of view of whether he is more of a person , I would say not .""",AGREE,"""I have the same view on abortion .""","""I think that a third-term fetus is already sufficiently a person""",,
6885,1836,"""A newborn baby can not think mentally like an adult , but does that make him/her a less valuable life ? if a woman is raped , and a two year old is raped , is it not an equally bad crime considering the two year old did n't understand what was happening ? I have the same view on abortion .""","""I think you misunderstand my view . I think that a third-term fetus is already sufficiently a person , so I would CERTAINLY consider a newborn baby a person . To me , a person is one who has the most basic , rudimentary sense of thought and emotion . A late-term fetus , from my point of view , is no less a person than an Einstein . An Einstein , of course , is much more useful to a much greater number of people , but from the simple point of view of whether he is more of a person , I would say not .""",AGREE,"""A newborn baby can not think mentally like an adult , but does that make him/her a less valuable life ?""","""I think that a third-term fetus is already sufficiently a person , so I would CERTAINLY consider a newborn baby a person""",,
6892,1837,"""All of those quotes are from leading evolutionist . Of course you are more informed than they are n't you ?""","""You were asked to give us your explanation of evolution . So far you 've just regurgitated creationist arguments against it , without showing that you actually understand what you 're arguing against . But instead of trying to answer the question that was asked of you , you just spat out some more quotes . The least you could have done was to use quotes that explained evolution as you percieve it , but they 're not even on topic , going on about morality and atheism ! You continue to confirm your ignorance for us .""",DISAGREE,"""All of those quotes are from leading evolutionist""","""The least you could have done was to use quotes that explained evolution as you percieve it , but they 're not even on topic , going on about morality and atheism !""",,
6895,1838,"""No , and your classification here is rediculous . This is not a matter of refusing to serve sombody based on their religon .""","""What 's ridiculous is your mis-reading of the argument . I 'm both discussing individual pharmacists , and their refusal of service to individuals based on the drug the individual wants , which is already assumed to be dispensed at that pharmacy or chain .""",DISAGREE,"""matter of refusing to serve sombody based on their religon""","""I 'm both discussing individual pharmacists , and their refusal of service to individuals""",,
6910,1841,"""One of the quotes in your signature is- `` The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is , as a last resort , to protect themselves against tyranny in government . -Thomas Jefferson `` But this is a bogus quote . http : //www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html Why do you use a bogus quote ?""","""Lacking substance as usual .... Whether Jefferson said it or not is not the issue . The topic of this thread is `` 15 myths about gun control `` But you seem unable to make a logical point so you resort to attacking the individual ... Significant portions of this article are excerpted from Michael Z. Williamson 's excellent and witty piece , It 's amazing what one has to believe to believe in gun control `` 1 . Banning guns works , which is why New York , DC , & amp ; Chicago cops need guns . 2 . Washington DC 's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control , and Indianapolis ' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control . 3 . Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are `` just statistics. `` 4 . The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban , both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates , which have been declining since 1991 . 5 . We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid . 6 . The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals . 7 . An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray , but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you . 8 . A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet . 9 . When confronted by violent criminals , you should `` put up no defense -- give them what they want , or run `` ( Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields , Guns Do n't Die - People Do , 1981 , p.125 ) . 10 . The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns ; just like Guns & amp ; Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery . 11 . One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts , a civil engineer for a better bridge , a surgeon for internal medicine , a computer programmer for hard drive problems , and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise . 12 . The 2nd Amendment , ratified in 1787 , refers to the National Guard , which was created 130 years later , in 1917 . 13 . The National Guard , federally funded , with bases on federal land , using federally-owned weapons , vehicles , buildings and uniforms , punishing trespassers under federal law , is a `` state `` militia . 14 . These phrases : `` right of the people peaceably to assemble , `` `` right of the people to be secure in their homes , `` `` enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people , `` and `` The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively , and to the people `` all refer to individuals , but `` the right of the people to keep and bear arm `` refers to the state . 15 . '' The Constitution is strong and will never change. `` But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd , 4th , and 5th Amendments to that Constitution . 16 . Rifles and handguns are n't necessary to national defense ! Of course , the army has hundreds of thousands of them . 17 . Private citizens should n't have handguns , because they are n't `` military weapons `` , but private citizens should n't have `` assault rifles `` , because they are military weapons . 18 . In spite of waiting periods , background checks , finger printing , government forms , etc. , guns today are too readily available , which is responsible for recent school shootings . In the 1940 's , 1950 's and1960 's , anyone could buy guns at hardware stores , army surplus stores , gas stations , variety stores , Sears mail order , no waiting , no background check , no fingerprints , no government forms and there were no school shootings . 19 . The NRA 's attempt to run a `` do n't touch `` campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda , but the anti-gun lobby 's attempt to run a `` do n't touch `` campaign is responsible social activity . 20 . Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly , and so simple to use that they make murder easy . 21 . A handgun , with up to 4 controls , is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use , as opposed to an automobile that only has 20 . 22 . Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is `` an accident waiting to happen `` and gun makers ' advertisements aimed at women are `` preying on their fears. `` 23 . Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed . 24 . Guns cause violence , which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows . 25 . A majority of the population supports gun control , just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves . 26 . Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a `` weapon of mass destruction `` or an `` assault weapon. `` 27 . Most people ca n't be trusted , so we should have laws against guns , which most people will abide by because they can be trusted . 28 . The right of Internet pornographers to exist can not be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights , but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights . 29 . Free speech entitles one to own newspapers , transmitters , computers , and typewriters , but self-defense only justifies bare hands . 30 . The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution , and the NRA is bad , because it defends other parts of the Constitution . 31 . Charlton Heston , a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored , but Michael Douglas , a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control , Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit . 32 . Police operate with backup within groups , which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do `` civilians `` who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition . 33 . We should ban `` Saturday Night Specials `` and other inexpensive guns because it 's not fair that poor people have access to guns too . 34 . Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over hand guns that private citizens can never hope to obtain . 35 . Private citizens do n't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection . 36 . Citizens do n't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs , who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops , need a gun . 37 . '' Assault weapons `` have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people . The police need assault weapons . You do not . 38 . When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion , that 's bad ; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & amp ; Wesson , that 's good . 39 . Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes , which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon . 40 . Handgun Control , Inc. says they want to `` keep guns out of the wrong hands. `` Guess what ? You have the wrong hands""",DISAGREE,"""One of the quotes in your signature is- `` The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is , as a last resort , to protect themselves against tyranny in government . -Thomas Jefferson `` But this is a bogus quote . http : //www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html Why do you use a bogus quote ?""","""Lacking substance as usual .... Whether Jefferson said it or not is not the issue . The topic of this thread is `` 15 myths about gun control `` But you seem unable to make a logical point so you resort to attacking the individual ... Significant portions of this article are excerpted from Michael Z. Williamson 's excellent and witty piece , It 's amazing what one has to believe to believe in gun control `` ''""",,
6923,1844,"""So how do you explain the soft tissue , flexible , red tissue found in t-rex bones ?""","""quite easily actually . http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dinosaur/flesh.html You 've already been refuted on this issue before . Typical creationist . make argument , watch it get refuted and bring it back after people have forgotten you already made it . SS= Liar Does it keep you awake at night knowing you 're a repeat fraudster ? Again with the fraud . http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dinosaur/blood.html Fossil Meat Found in 380-Million-Year-Old Fish The fish is explained by the first link to talkorigis i gave . I fully expect you to make the same refuted arguments in a month . This is why I should n't bother with people like you .""",DISAGREE,"""explain the soft tissue red tissue found t-rex bones""","""quite easily actually already been refuted Typical creationist""",,
6931,1847,"""Next , Dr. Lipton destroys any notion that our genes control us : `` ..... the media repeatedly distort the meaning of two words : correlation and causation . It 's one thing to be linked to a disease ; it 's quite another to cause a disease , which implies a directing , controlling action . If I show you my keys and say that a particular key `` controls `` my car , you at first might think that makes sense because you know you need that key to turn on the ignition . But does the key actually `` control `` the car ? If it did , you could n't leave the key in the car alone because it might just borrow your car for a joy ride when you are not paying attention . In truth , the key is `` correlated `` with the control of the car ; but the person who actually turns the key actually controls the car . Specific genes are correlated with an organism 's behavior and characteristics . But these genes are not activated until something triggers them. ``""","""So this means that genes are not related to the traits our body has ? I did n't think so ...""",DISAGREE,"""destroys any notion media repeatedly distort control of the car""","""genes are not related traits our body has""",,
6933,1848,"""Is it possible that the `` rigidity `` of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce when one partner is n't as `` on board `` as the other ? Many people have only joined these churches of late and were already married when they did . Just thinkin ' .""","""You 're thinking is right on , sinjin . Although it 's kinda hush-hush , it has been determined ( especially in the more charismatic churches ) that when one `` goes further `` in religion the other feels alienated and problems/troubles that probably would have never risen in their relationship oozes out . A new circle of friends emerge which make the one that is & # 8220 ; left behind & # 8221 ; feel closed out and closed off . Arguments then seem to erupt daily and most of it over who is doing the & # 8220 ; right thing & # 8221 ; according to that religion , followed all too often by divorce .""",AGREE,"""of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce""","""is right , one `` goes further `` in religion the other feels alienated and problems/troubles that probably would have never risen in their relationship oozes out Arguments then seem to erupt daily and most of it over who doing the thing according to that religion""",,
6937,1849,"""I think the semi-tragic error supersport - and other strongly religious people - make when triumphantly posting links like this is that he assumes everyone invests their beliefs concerning the universe with the same degree of emotion and self-worth as he does . This assumption is explicitly stated on occasion , whenever 'darwinism ' or evolution or some other scientific field of study is described as a 'religion ' . To SS , the most unpleasant and unwelcome thing imaginable is for evidence to be presented that contradicts ones beliefs . The idea that someone could respond to an upheaval or revolution in our understanding with excitement , anticipation or delight is entirely foreign to him .""","""Just on my way out , saw this , and YES ! I have long believed that this is the heart of the matter , and have tried to make this point with little success from time to time . I have never seen a direct response to this . Ever . Even in threads where the discussion has carried on in detail on both sides , this concept is totally ignored . There was a similar , brief hiatus leaning towards this point in one of the threads over at IIDB where creationist spammer Afdave is rapidly losing his dignity and proving himself predictably ignorant in all fields of science including the philosophy of same . It got really interesting for a bit and the guys over there looked to have actually got through to him for a bit , but then he predictably went into full Gish Gallop mode in order to bury his own cognitive dissonances underneath wave upon wave of standard AiG/EvoFairytale strawmen . Just my two pence ; this is a fascinating psychological point that should be discussed .""",AGREE,"""'darwinism '""","""It got really interesting for a bit and the guys over there looked to have actually got through to him for a""",,
6954,1852,"""but then you have to dump all your ( secular ) `` scientific `` theories in there aswell .""","""Yes . Scientific theories do n't deal with God .""",AGREE,"""you have to dump all your ( secular ) `` scientific `` theories in there aswell .""","""Yes . Scientific theories do n't deal with God .""",,
7017,1871,"""The propaganda is obvious . The guidebook encourages docents to proclaim their evolutionary faith with boldness and confidence :  “ Be polite but firm. ”  “ Practice . Your credibility is higher , and you ’ ll be more comfortable , when you sound like you know what you ’ re talking about . Rehearse answers to the most frequently asked questions Â… . ”""","""Why is that propoganda ? It 's exactly what you do .""",DISAGREE,"""The propaganda is obvious""","""Why is that propoganda""",,
7025,1873,"""Why not read `` The Science of Consciousness—The Next Scientific Paradigm `` by William A. Guillory , Ph.D. http : //creativityandinquiry.org/Scie ... ciousness.html Consciousness is non-material .""","""Quote from your appeal to authority : ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !""",AGREE,"""Science of Consciousness—The Next Scientific Paradigm""","""from your appeal to authority""",,
7048,1877,"""And yet , even though creationists ask for detailed lists of every creature in transition over a period of several million years , I have never found a single creationist who can trace his ancestors back to Adam , a period of only about 6,000 years . The best I can do is to trace my ancestors back to the 1600s .""","""My mom can only trace her family back a few generations . By the time we get to the clan that lived in Ohio in the middle of the 19th century , the records get very confusing and very incomplete . By creationist logic , we must then accept that my ancestors , white Americans , were specially created in North America by God .""",AGREE,"""I have never found a single creationist who can trace his ancestors back to Adam , a period of only about 6,000 years .""","""By creationist logic , we must then accept that my ancestors , white Americans , were specially created in North America by God .""",,
7057,1878,"""Ooaman : Christianity holds that Jesus is the `` Son of `` God .""","""No , Christianity holds that Jesus IS God . That Jesus also is NOT God just shows how contradictory the Bible is for Christians ( but they overlook logic and hold blindly to their silly trinity position anyway ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Christianity holds that Jesus is the `` Son of `` God .""","""No , Christianity holds that Jesus IS God""",,
7064,1879,"""This forum is starting to get a little bit boring and is using up to much of my time .""","""So , we on this board are n't receptive to your proselytizing ? Sorry about that . This particular forum is intended to be a scientific discussion , based on logic and evidence . We certainly do n't want to waste your time . The door is over there . I find your dismissive , superior attitude to be offensive , to be honest. , so I ca n't say I 'll miss you . But should you ever want to discuss evolution and creation in terms of actual science you will be welcome to return .""",DISAGREE,"""This forum is starting to get a little bit boring and is using up to much of my time .""","""We certainly do n't want to waste your time . The door is over there .""",,
7103,1886,"""And Horn didnt go to jail thanks to those right to kill laws or castle laws that the NRA supports !""","""If you had bothered to spend more than two seconds actually looking up what happened , you would 've seen that Joe Horn was cleared of all wrong doings by a grand jury , not on the grounds of the new Castle Doctrine of Texas , but the already existing laws that permits the use of deadly force for preventing property crimes . These laws were on the books for years before Texas officially adopted the NRA endorsed Castle Doctrine . And even so , what 're you complaining about ? Would you rather Joe Horn be the one killed and the criminals alive today ?""",DISAGREE,"""to kill laws or castle laws that the NRA supports""","""Would you rather Joe Horn be the one killed""",,
7126,1891,"""Science helps those who seek to understand God in a more profound way , to learn about the intricate and complex unfolding of His creation .""","""And science helped Stenger write his book . How can the same subject make a stronger case for both of two completely opposing viewpoints ? another""",DISAGREE,"""God in a more profound way , to learn about the intricate""","""How can the same subject make a stronger case for both of two completely opposing viewpoints""",,
7153,1906,"""Yet there is arguably a morality component to every law ever to be put on the books .""","""Yes , and depending on how you define morality .""",AGREE,"""Yet there is arguably a morality component to every law ever to be put on the books .""","""Yes , and depending on how you define morality .""",,
7174,1910,"""DOH ! yah beat me to it ! I 'll elaborate with the Zardoz answer : Stupid people want other stupid people to believe in their stupid belief systems and when they find non-stupid people , they have a coniption fits because they 're too stupid to understand that their beliefs are stupid . Simple version : Stupid is as Stupid does Come be stupid with us .""","""You know something , I just came here to browse , but upon discovering that you feel that people who believe in God are stupid , and their beliefs are stupid , just # # # # # # me off . Not that you dont believe , but your use of the word stupid . I happen to be one of those stupid people you refer to , and so I will say this- People can say or believe whatever they want to , but we are all going to die one day , and something will be waiting on us when we do die , so before you start calling people names , I would explore the possibility that maybe christians are right , because in the inescapable end , we will all find out . And if we as christians are right , your eternal future dont look to good . And one more little thought , people thought the guy who said the world was round was stupid , but he was right in the end .""",DISAGREE,"""Stupid is as Stupid does Come be stupid with us .""","""You know something , I just came here to browse , but upon discovering that you feel that people who believe in God are stupid ,""",,
7179,1911,"""So , what is the current treatment and how effective is it ? Obviously it is more COST effective . We dont know what the current treatment is , or how effective it is , because what you posted here is a one sided opinion piece masquerading as a news article , and you ate it up .""","""Current 'treatment ' includes : Use of a placebo Laying on of hands Prayer Tossing salt over thy shoulder Planting 3 kernels of rice in the ground under your home Saying the Pledge of Allegience And thanking the Obamasiah for a bountiful crop of beets . Oh , and if you can locate the witch , have her confess to the crime of making you ill ... and punished for doing so ... you stand a better chance of living longer with said cancers .""",DISAGREE,"""We dont know what the current treatment is , or how effective it is ,""","""you stand a better chance of living longer with said cancers .""",,
7185,1913,"""people keep saying thats the law in texas , so Im saying that this is the law in New York , He broke the law so he had it coming , next time dont disrespect the law and get a license , Im just showing how some of the people on this board are major hypocrites , you suddenly get all soft on crime when you dont like the law ,""","""That is not a law to respect , the civil right in the Second Amendment IS ! It is unconstitutional to require a license for a right freely given in the Constitution . - Murdoch vs. Pennsylvania plus about 8 more such rulings . You just do n't like the BOR brady , that is the Supreme Law of the Land .""",DISAGREE,"""next time dont disrespect the law and get a license""","""It is unconstitutional to require a license for a right freely given in the Constitution .""",,
7218,1919,"""This collected evidence will be used against suspects without thier permission . The crime fighting tool you just described violates 2 rights in one sweep . That is a very scary power given to police .""","""Maryland already has the law on the books . It 's effect thus far has only been to eliminate certain makes and models from the Maryland marketplace and to extinguish the sale of certain collectables .""",DISAGREE,"""The crime fighting tool you just described violates 2 rights in one sweep . That is a very scary power given to police .""","""Maryland already has the law on the books . It 's effect thus far has only been to eliminate certain makes""",,
7219,1919,"""This collected evidence will be used against suspects without thier permission . The crime fighting tool you just described violates 2 rights in one sweep . That is a very scary power given to police .""","""Maryland already has the law on the books . It 's effect thus far has only been to eliminate certain makes and models from the Maryland marketplace and to extinguish the sale of certain collectables .""",DISAGREE,"""That is a very scary power given to police .""","""Maryland marketplace and to extinguish the sale of certain collectables .""",,
7233,1922,"""It appears to me , that if slavery had been put up to a vote in Texas back before the civil war , and Texans voted to add an amendment to their state constitution legalizing slavery of blacks ( which they would have ) , you could as simply say `` Maybe , just maybe , the reason that many American people think slavery of blacks is right is simply because it IS. ``""","""Well , the slavery analogy for gay rights is past it 's applicability at this point -- one was a property issue ( also rooted in deep prejudice ) , the other is a morality issue . Many people oppose gay marriage out of morality and NOT prejudice . The same ca n't be said for slavery . There are many ways that the analogy does n't work and that 's just one of them . In fact , it could as easily be an analogy to reverse it and say that the ones who did the enslaving were analogous to gay rights lobbyists and the abolitionists were analogous to those who seek to protect marriage . After all , the plantation owners were the ones really fighting for ill-conceived rights -- rights that they should n't have had .""",DISAGREE,"""constitution legalizing slavery of blacks""","""gay marriage out of morality and NOT prejudice enslaving were analogous to gay rights lobbyists and the abolitionists were analogous""",,
7241,1923,"""everything . it states that you can not discriminate against people even if they have a disorder . and if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""how is it discrimination when they are n't being denied rights everyone else has ? They have no right that I do n't have . Read my previous posts before you respond . Also affirmative action is helping those that are disadvantaged to do the same things that those that are n't disadvantaged like the American wiht Disabilites act . It 's not asking to give them different rights .""",DISAGREE,"""it states that you can not discriminate against people even if they have a disorder . and if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""how is it discrimination when they are n't being denied rights everyone else has ? They have no right that I do n't have .""",,
7258,1927,"""Is that why there are tens of thousands of `` Christian `` religions ?""","""You got it . People make mistakes . Finally you see that scientists are just as human as religious people .""",AGREE,"""Is that why there are tens of thousands of `` Christian `` religions ?""","""You got it . People make mistakes . Finally you see that scientists are just as human as religious people .""",,
7268,1930,"""Oh well , you 'll most likely insult me .""","""Screw you . Done . : D""",DISAGREE,"""Oh well , you 'll most likely insult me .""","""Screw you . Done . :""",,
7270,1931,"""I am a gay Christian woman , live in Northern CA , and am VERY happily MARRIED to my wife as of June of 2008 . It is NOT a sin to be GLBT ...""","""The Word of God says otherwise . Romans 1:25-27 - They exchanged the truth of God for a lie , and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised ... Because of this , God gave them over to shameful lusts . Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones . In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another . Men committed indecent acts with other men , and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion . You 've rewritten Biblical Christianity . 2 Timothy 4:3-4 ( New International Version ) - For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine . Instead , to suit their own desires , they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear .""",DISAGREE,"""It is NOT a sin to be GLBT ...""","""The Word of God says otherwise .""",,
7288,1942,"""http : //www.imagequest3d.com/cgi-bin/ ... c & amp ; tt= & amp ; bool=and How did the anglerfishes evolve their rods and lures ? ... and why do they need such big teeth ?""","""I 'll address the later question . They may not `` need `` teeth that big , I could n't say . Just because a creature has a feature does n't mean its necessary or useful . While evolution does select for useful traits and against harmful traits , that does n't mean that a trait wo n't develop that is simply odd . As long as it is n't particularly negative there 's no reason to assume it will go away , and so sometimes you get traits that are n't `` useful `` , they 're simply not harmful . Those teeth could be such a case .""",AGREE,"""How did the anglerfishes evolve their rods and lures ? do they need such big teeth ?""","""They may not `` need `` teeth that big , I could n't say . While evolution does select for useful traits and against harmful traits ,""",,
7297,1943,"""Most premature baby survivor : http : //news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219 ... y_070219205236""","""That is amazing . I find it crazy that this baby is much younger and smaller and far less developed than many of the babies that are aborted . Abortion is murder .""",AGREE,"""Most premature baby survivor : http : //news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219 ... y_070219205236""","""That is amazing . I find it crazy that this baby is much younger and smaller and far less developed than many of the babies that are aborted .""",,
7301,1944,"""As for Irreducible complex structures , one thing you have yet to understand , even though it has been explained to you at least a dozen times , is there are two methods for ic structures to evolve naturally , and indeed it has been shown this is the case""","""You know what , since simple contradiction without reason while ignoring any responses seems to be good enough for you evolutionist I will simply save my words . Evolution does not explain the advancement of life . OHH AHH , beat that one .""",DISAGREE,"""is there are two methods for ic structures to evolve naturally , and indeed it has been shown this is the case""","""Evolution does not explain the advancement of life .""",,
7307,1945,"""After all , all of them are shooting fellow students , right ? So how do they know who the shooter is if EVERYONE is shooting ? Who knows what kind of massive gun fight such a thing could turn into .""","""Bull ! If everybody was shooting at this deranged individual he would 've been reduced to swiss cheese , and then nobody would have cause to fire anymore because the threat would be neutralized and all guns would be returned to their holsters .""",DISAGREE,"""After all , all of them are shooting fellow students , right ? So how do they know who the shooter is if EVERYONE is shooting ?""","""Bull ! If everybody was shooting at this deranged individual he would 've been reduced to swiss cheese""",,
7336,1949,"""It varies . Sometimes elementary/middle school kids and sometimes older minors like high school kids . I not talking about gangbangers if this is where you 're going .""","""How do you know none of the `` children `` were actually gang members engaged in illegal activity , and that fact was simply excluded because it was n't considered newsworthy ?""",DISAGREE,"""I not talking about gangbangers if this is where you 're going .""","""How do you know none of the `` children `` were actually gang members ?""",,
7342,1949,"""It varies . Sometimes elementary/middle school kids and sometimes older minors like high school kids . I not talking about gangbangers if this is where you 're going .""","""How do you know none of the `` children `` were actually gang members engaged in illegal activity , and that fact was simply excluded because it was n't considered newsworthy ?""",DISAGREE,"""not talking about gangbangers if this is where you 're going .""","""How do you know none of the `` children `` were actually gang members""",,
7346,1950,"""Maybe you could mention some of these plenty people .""","""Rahm Emanuel for one . He seems to sum up the message very well . And then there 's Carolyn McCarthy who actually introduced the bill that , if passed into law , would cancel your Second Amendment rights just because your name is on the no fly list . Just two names , perhaps , but they 're the names of people in a very powerful and dangerous position , capable of making very bad things happen .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe you could mention some of these plenty people .""","""Rahm Emanuel for one . He seems to sum up the message very well . And then there 's Carolyn McCarthy""",,
7349,1950,"""Maybe you could mention some of these plenty people .""","""Rahm Emanuel for one . He seems to sum up the message very well . And then there 's Carolyn McCarthy who actually introduced the bill that , if passed into law , would cancel your Second Amendment rights just because your name is on the no fly list . Just two names , perhaps , but they 're the names of people in a very powerful and dangerous position , capable of making very bad things happen .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe you could mention some of these plenty people .""","""Rahm Emanuel for then there 's Carolyn McCarthy ,""",,
7360,1951,"""It 's technically not killing . Killing means making it dead . For the most animals , the indicator for life is brain activity ( Note : brain activity is one of the requirements of life , but it 's not THE definition ) . When the sperm meets the egg , there is no brain activity . In fact there maybe no brain activity until the end of the first trimester .""","""Actually , at 24 weeks is when the the interconnection of the fetal brain begins . The nerve cells from the neocortex begin to synapse with the nerve cells of the thalamus . It is at this point that bursts of recognizable brain waves start to appear among the random signals that go on before . It is at this point that some scientists believe a fetus can feel pain as well . It is also at this point that a fetus can possibly survive outside of the womb ( 23-24 weeks ) , though the cance of survival is low and the risk of impairment very serious . This point probably wo n't change with technology either because the fetal lung is not mature enough until this point for even mechanical-assisted breathing .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's technically not killing . Killing means making it dead .""","""The nerve cells from the neocortex begin to synapse with the nerve cells""",,
7356,1951,"""It 's technically not killing . Killing means making it dead . For the most animals , the indicator for life is brain activity ( Note : brain activity is one of the requirements of life , but it 's not THE definition ) . When the sperm meets the egg , there is no brain activity . In fact there maybe no brain activity until the end of the first trimester .""","""Actually , at 24 weeks is when the the interconnection of the fetal brain begins . The nerve cells from the neocortex begin to synapse with the nerve cells of the thalamus . It is at this point that bursts of recognizable brain waves start to appear among the random signals that go on before . It is at this point that some scientists believe a fetus can feel pain as well . It is also at this point that a fetus can possibly survive outside of the womb ( 23-24 weeks ) , though the cance of survival is low and the risk of impairment very serious . This point probably wo n't change with technology either because the fetal lung is not mature enough until this point for even mechanical-assisted breathing .""",DISAGREE,"""For the most animals , the indicator for life is brain activity there maybe no brain activity until the end of the first trimester .""","""Actually , at 24 weeks is when the the interconnection of the fetal brain begins It is at this point that some scientists believe a fetus can feel pain as well .""",,
7364,1952,"""Looks like Accipiter does n't trust police with guns . I knew anti-gunners advocated crime ! I guess us little people do n't deserve guns , huh Accipiter ?""","""Well I guess you apparently trust the political bunch and rich and famous .""",DISAGREE,"""Looks like Accipiter does n't trust police with guns .""","""I guess you apparently trust the political bunch and rich and famous .""",,
7382,1954,"""[ b ] My bad , but when violent people came after Christ , well we saw what happened , I 'm talking about the violence of how it happened .""","""Yes , but Christians have suffered in order to live out their faith for nearly 2000 years . Only one of the Apostles lived out the full measure of their days , most of them died violent deaths for refusing to renounce the Gospel . I make no claims to being worthy to stand in the company of the saints and martyrs , but their example is there , the way of Christ leads to the cross .""",DISAGREE,"""My bad , but when violent people came after Christ , well we saw what happened I 'm talking about the violence of how it happened .""","""Yes , but Christians have suffered in order to live out their faith for nearly 2000 years . most of them died violent deaths for refusing to renounce the Gospel .""",,
7391,1956,"""There was a study in Britain back in 1999 that concluded the risk of breast cancer following an abortion was trivial , almost as insignificant as getting lung cancer from a lifetime exposure to second-hand smoke - UNLESS it was the first pregnancy that was interrupted . If the first pregnancy was interrupted , the likelihood of subsequent breast cancer was right up there with the likelihood of lung cancer after a lifetime of smoking . ( The study is obviously not politically correct , so I 've seen no mention of it on this side of the Atlantic . ) The study did n't address causes , and only noted the correlation , but the lead doctor did speculate that it may have something to do with hormonal changes that need to run to completion . Once again , the state of Florida takes the lead in losing and abusing its children .""","""Not to be pedantic but have you any sources to the uk study from 1999 please ? Only asking because it does n't make sense that termination of a first pregnancy can increase the chances of breast cancer yet a miscarriage or still born in a first pregnancy does n't yet in both cases the hormonal changes have not run to completion .""",DISAGREE,"""first pregnancy that was interrupted""","""Only asking because it does n't make sense that termination of a first pregnancy can""",,
7398,1958,"""1 ) Show me one instance where science transplanted a group of animals to a new environment and observed them for multiple generations to see if new traits quickly/purposefully/nonrandomly emerged .""","""Zoos are indeed a good example . Although the environments are made as close as possible to the natural habitats , penguins are often kept in open-air enclosures in temperate or even tropical climates . And there are two critical differences in even the most carefully constructed zoo : the absence of any predators , and the absence of any prey . So why do n't the animals quickly/purposefully/nonrandomly cease exhibiting developmentally costly traits which give them an advantage against predators or prey who are n't present ?""",DISAGREE,"""Show me one instance science transplanted a group of animals to a new environment and observed them for multiple generations to see if new traits quickly/purposefully/nonrandomly emerged .""","""Zoos are indeed a good example . zoo : the absence of any predators , and the absence of any prey . So why do n't the animals quickly/purposefully/nonrandomly cease exhibiting developmentally costly traits which give them an advantage against predators or prey who are n't present ?""",,
7400,1959,"""The same hypocrisy can be said about the gay marriage movement in that it 's now turning to voting and popular appeal ( legislative solutions ) when it 's always bemoaned majority views deciding anything . These are just examples of conflicting movements using whatever means are available to them .""","""So are you defending thier actions then ?""",DISAGREE,"""The same hypocrisy can be said about the gay marriage movement""","""defending thier actions""",,
7402,1959,"""The same hypocrisy can be said about the gay marriage movement in that it 's now turning to voting and popular appeal ( legislative solutions ) when it 's always bemoaned majority views deciding anything . These are just examples of conflicting movements using whatever means are available to them .""","""So are you defending thier actions then ?""",DISAGREE,"""using whatever means are available to them .""","""So are you defending thier actions then ?""",,
7417,1963,"""Do you believe in purple unicorns on uranus ? Have you -or anyone- been to uranus to check ? No ? Ok , I assume you believe in them then .""","""Uranus . Is . A . Ball . Of . Gas . Genius .""",DISAGREE,"""Do you believe in purple unicorns on uranus ? Have you -or anyone- been to uranus to check ?""","""Uranus . Is . A . Ball . Of . Gas . Genius .""",,
7424,1965,"""I 'm curious how the YECs could use this in an argument since the process described could hardly occur in nature .""","""They ca n't , if you value science and common sense , however , science and common sense are irrelevent in their world .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm curious how the YECs could use this in an argument since the process described could hardly occur in nature .""","""They ca n't , if you value science and common sense""",,
7441,1969,"""And Clerisian , you did n't seem to be arguing that the two were distinct , rather you appeared to say that pro-lifers did support charging mothers who miscarried with manslaughter ( where the mother 's actions , say , drinking heavily , were the cause of death ) .""","""The definition of manslaughter is when one 's actions , which end up killing someone , display a reckless disregard for the dangers of the situation . That 's not a proper legal definition , but it 'll do . Now , you want to argue that pro-lifers would be forced into the counterintuitive conclusion that ALL miscarriage is manslaughter , and thus their position is ridiculous . I 'm saying that they would only be forced to admit that a very small portion of miscarriage is manslaughter , and a portion that they would probably be willing to make a case for . I 'm not saying `` miscarriage is not manslaughter , `` but only `` miscarriage is not always manslaughter. `` For example , if a woman took perfectly good care of herself and did nothing dangerous , but had a miscarriage anyway , she would obviously not have committed manslaughter . If a woman had one drink with dinner , but she was carrying a very unhealthy fetus and it died , then she would not have committed manslaughter , because that was not reckless . I pointed out the `` you-shouldn't-be-drinking-and-having-unprotected-sex `` argument as a position somebody might hold , but I think that it would probably be judged as unrepresentative of the definition of manslaughter . So obviously , miscarriage can not be manslaughter in the sense of `` every instance of A is an instance of B. ``""",DISAGREE,"""actions , say , drinking heavily , were the cause of death ) .""","""So obviously , miscarriage can not be manslaughter in the sense of `` every instance of A is an instance of""",,
7444,1970,"""I am new to 4forums so I don ’ t know how to quote very good yet , but that ’ s not the issue at hand . Again , your example is not an example of the laws of logic because logic is a concept and can not be observed . Putting your hand in the fire has everything to do with nerves not logic ; saying that A then B does not follow because someone could tie your hand ( I know people that will burn themselves ) in a fire and then A would not equal B , however the laws of logic can not be violated .""","""The logic is in knowing beforehand that your hand will be burned if stuck into a fire . This has nothing to do with the physical aspects of heat , nerves and burning skin .""",DISAGREE,"""I don ’ t know how to quote very good yet , but that ’ s not the issue at hand . Again , your example is not an example of the laws of logic because logic is a concept and can not be observed . Putting your hand in the fire has everything to do with nerves not logic""","""The logic is in knowing beforehand that your hand will be burned if stuck into a fire""",,
7449,1971,"""Do you necessarily care for each and every other person in this world ? Well if you do n't maybe we should justify the free killing of other people as we please . I personally do care about the well being of children and i wish there was more that could be done about certain situations . Unfortunately there are people that make false facts on the availability of such things as adoption . Some of the facts on this issue are available at : http : //www.ncfa-usa.org ( I am including a link to this American site because i think most of you reading this are American ) A common misconception about pro-lifers is that they 're women-hating . This is a misconception put out by feminist groups that support abortion , the truth is there are many female pro-lifers , my pro-life group at the University of Waterloo actually consists mainly of women , sadly this may be due to the fact that women tend to care about others much more than men , affirming my above statement about caring about the children .""","""I know that not all people who are pro-life are woman-hating . I , too want to see abortion reduced to the bare minimum . I just disagree with most pro-lifers on how to accomplish that . My issue was with ROCC 's attitude in the post I was responding to . To summarize he/she said that your should n't get pregnant and if you do - you just get to deal with it . There is absolutely no regard for an individual 's situation , the attack is entirely focused on women and it offers NOTHING that will help reduce abortion . ROCC 's statement was quite woman-hating , but no , it is not indicative of the pro-life side 's feelings about women . The only times I am compelled to really think pro-lifers are anti-woman is when they have the `` pregnancy is a woman 's due punishment for promiscuity `` attitude or demand that a woman die/put her health jeapardy or demand rape victims go through with pregnancies . If you ca n't see the woman in even those most extreme situations , then you clearly have zero regard for women . I believe that abortion stands it best chance at being reduced by addressing the things that lead to unplanned pregnancy and the reasons women choose to abort . To demonize women and simply take away choice without addressing these things will not reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies , or gauarantee responsible choices . It will lead desperate women to desperate action , though ( i.e. , coat hangers ) .""",DISAGREE,"""A common misconception about pro-lifers is that they 're women-hating .""","""I just disagree with most pro-lifers on how to accomplish that . My issue was with ROCC 's attitude in the post I was responding to .""",,
7448,1971,"""Do you necessarily care for each and every other person in this world ? Well if you do n't maybe we should justify the free killing of other people as we please . I personally do care about the well being of children and i wish there was more that could be done about certain situations . Unfortunately there are people that make false facts on the availability of such things as adoption . Some of the facts on this issue are available at : http : //www.ncfa-usa.org ( I am including a link to this American site because i think most of you reading this are American ) A common misconception about pro-lifers is that they 're women-hating . This is a misconception put out by feminist groups that support abortion , the truth is there are many female pro-lifers , my pro-life group at the University of Waterloo actually consists mainly of women , sadly this may be due to the fact that women tend to care about others much more than men , affirming my above statement about caring about the children .""","""I know that not all people who are pro-life are woman-hating . I , too want to see abortion reduced to the bare minimum . I just disagree with most pro-lifers on how to accomplish that . My issue was with ROCC 's attitude in the post I was responding to . To summarize he/she said that your should n't get pregnant and if you do - you just get to deal with it . There is absolutely no regard for an individual 's situation , the attack is entirely focused on women and it offers NOTHING that will help reduce abortion . ROCC 's statement was quite woman-hating , but no , it is not indicative of the pro-life side 's feelings about women . The only times I am compelled to really think pro-lifers are anti-woman is when they have the `` pregnancy is a woman 's due punishment for promiscuity `` attitude or demand that a woman die/put her health jeapardy or demand rape victims go through with pregnancies . If you ca n't see the woman in even those most extreme situations , then you clearly have zero regard for women . I believe that abortion stands it best chance at being reduced by addressing the things that lead to unplanned pregnancy and the reasons women choose to abort . To demonize women and simply take away choice without addressing these things will not reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies , or gauarantee responsible choices . It will lead desperate women to desperate action , though ( i.e. , coat hangers ) .""",DISAGREE,"""i wish there was more that could be done about certain situations""","""attitude or demand that a woman die/put her health jeapardy or demand rape victims go through with pregnancies""",,
7458,1973,"""ID that submits we were created/designed by things inside the universe that are knowable are rational claims . However , they have no evidence , so they have a long way to go to be shown to be worthwhile to pursue .""","""But you think SETI is worthwhile !""",DISAGREE,"""we were created/designed by things inside the universe that are knowable are rational claims . However , they have no evidence , so they have a long way to go to be shown to be worthwhile to pursue .""","""you think SETI is worthwhile""",,
7471,1976,"""Even if her name was Crystal Gail Mangum , right ? Believe it or not , those who commit murder are not above lying about it . Also , what if someone assaulted a man instead , and the man does the same 5 days later ? He 'd be unlikely to get the same sympathy ; but that 's the risk with vigilante justice , i.e . it 's an oxymoron that only works in the movies ... and only to make their producers rich , so they can be safe behind 9-foot security-fences and bodyguards from the very violence they breed against the rest of us .""","""So when somebody with bad intentions breaks and crawls in through a window , and shuts off your power so you ca n't use the telephone , and comes busting through your basement door , shooting them is vigilante justice ? To you this situation does n't qualify as self-defense ? I highly doubt the woman is lying about the entire matter , because if she was the prosecuting attorney and the police would n't be so willing to not press charges against her .""",DISAGREE,"""Believe it or not , those who commit murder are not above lying about it .""","""I highly doubt the woman is lying about the entire matter , because if she was the prosecuting attorney""",,
7472,1976,"""Even if her name was Crystal Gail Mangum , right ? Believe it or not , those who commit murder are not above lying about it . Also , what if someone assaulted a man instead , and the man does the same 5 days later ? He 'd be unlikely to get the same sympathy ; but that 's the risk with vigilante justice , i.e . it 's an oxymoron that only works in the movies ... and only to make their producers rich , so they can be safe behind 9-foot security-fences and bodyguards from the very violence they breed against the rest of us .""","""So when somebody with bad intentions breaks and crawls in through a window , and shuts off your power so you ca n't use the telephone , and comes busting through your basement door , shooting them is vigilante justice ? To you this situation does n't qualify as self-defense ? I highly doubt the woman is lying about the entire matter , because if she was the prosecuting attorney and the police would n't be so willing to not press charges against her .""",DISAGREE,"""Believe it or not , those who commit murder are not above lying about it .""","""I highly doubt the woman is lying about the entire matter ,""",,
7482,1978,"""yeah , holding onto religion is like holding onto the ancient times . if you wish to worship a higher power , i say do it by yourself .""","""Why are you so afraid of religion ?""",DISAGREE,"""holding onto religion is like holding onto the ancient times""","""Why are you so afraid of religion ?""",,
7518,1995,"""there are many who are against the theory of evolution and state there are many problems with the theory of evolution .""","""No biggie , right ? Typical creationist `` teach the controversy `` stuff . But wait ! The `` encyclopedia `` follows this up with it 's damning evidence to show the many holes in the ToE ! Read on evolutionists , and despair ! !""",DISAGREE,"""who are against the theory of evolution and state there are many problems with the theory of evolution""","""Typical creationist `` teach the controversy""",,
7525,1998,""" “ Creation and evolution , between them , exhaust the possible explanations for the origin of living things . Organisms either appeared on the earth fully developed or they did not . If they did not , they must have developed preexisting species by some process of modification . If they did appear in a full developed state , they must have been created by some omnipotent intelligence. ” ( D.J.Futuyma , Science on Trial ) There are ulitmatly only two explanations for our origins and even noted secular scientists openly admit this . One thing is an obvious fact from history , in western civilization the only choices are creationism and evolution from a single common ancestor .""","""Read this by the same guy : http : //www.stephenjaygould.org/libra ... ma_theory.html""",DISAGREE,""" Creation and evolution , between them , exhaust the possible explanations for the origin of living things""","""Read this by the same guy : http : //www.stephenjaygould.org/libra ... ma_theory.html""",,
7538,2002,"""I can not speak for all pro-choice people , but as for myself , I can say I gladly support a woman 's right to her decisions regarding her own offspring and reproductive health . I would not presume to know enough about her situation to add an opinion to that choice , but I will protect her ability to make it to the best of my ability .""","""You may not have intended to , but you 've given your carte blanche support for a woman to do what ever with her she wishes , with regards to her family - and you 'd stick out of it , regardless . Also , interestingly , there 's no man in this 'idealy free ' family of yours .""",DISAGREE,"""I gladly support a woman 's right to her decisions regarding her own offspring and reproductive health I would not presume to know enough about her situation to add an opinion I will protect her ability to make it to the best of my ability .""","""you 've given your carte blanche support for a woman to do what ever with her she wishes there 's no man in this 'idealy free ' family of yours .""",,
7618,2017,"""I 'm not saying we got it all right""","""Well , that just struck a chord with me . People of both sides say ,  “ We got the facts ! The facts support our side !  ” but it isn ’ t about the facts but how we react to them .""",AGREE,"""we got it all right""","""People of both sides say ,""",,
7662,2026,"""I do n't know what exactly to think of it only I think it saves us the cost of prisons !""","""I would favor capital punishment IF our system was always fair and equal , it is not ..... would O.J . have walked if he had been a poor man ? I would support capital punishment if we only convicted guilty men ... that is not the case . The list of men on death row who were found to be innocent and released is long and growing , and we can only guess how many innocents have been put to death . To me the harshest punishment would be to wake up knowing that this day would be like yesterday and tomorrow will be like today - for the rest of my life . Anyone who has had surgery can tell you that being put to sleep with chemicals is absolutely painless . Deterrent ? Do states with the death penalty have a lower murder per capita than those that do ? From a fiscal standpoint , it is cheaper to keep the convicted in prison for life than it is to execute them , and a whole lot easier to correct an error . Will we continue to have state sanctioned revenge ? Probably . Dono""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't know what exactly to think of it only I think it saves us the cost of prisons !""","""I would favor capital punishment IF our system was always fair and equal , it is not ...""",,
7676,2030,"""Originally posted by fallingupwards can you please respond to FDR and his New Deal that saved the country ?""","""Look at the DJIA . In the early 30s the economy was starting to turn around . Was it the New Deal ? I 'm willing to accept that . But the economy was about as low as it could go and could go no where else but up . In the years just before WW2 it looked like the economy was about it take another dump . Saying the New Deal saved the country does have some merit , but it is shaky at best . I can say for sure the economic explosion after WW2 was due to massive defense spending .""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by fallingupwards can you please respond to FDR and his New Deal that saved the country""","""But the economy was about as low as it could go and could go no where else but up . In the years just before WW2 it looked like the economy was about it take another dump""",,
7694,2035,"""No one is really arguing that there would be zero murder without guns . The question is would there be less murders without guns .""","""Without guns ? Like guns somehow suddenly stop existing ? The answer would be no , and it 'll always be no .""",DISAGREE,"""No one is really arguing that there would be zero murder without guns .""","""Without guns ? Like guns somehow suddenly stop existing ?""",,
7702,2038,"""( this is satire by the way )""","""And a good one at that . I can hear the wheels a-spinnin & # 8217 ;""",DISAGREE,"""( this is satire by the way )""","""And a good one at that .""",,
7705,2038,"""( this is satire by the way )""","""And a good one at that . I can hear the wheels a-spinnin & # 8217 ;""",DISAGREE,"""this is satire by the""","""I can hear the wheels a-spinnin""",,
7710,2039,"""Ha ! Now , however , genes are `` losing their glitter. `` Now , it 's RNA that seems to be `` running the show. `` How can it get anymore embarrassing for science that they got the premise wrong for all these years ?""","""I 'm sure the huge strides in medical technology our incomplete knowledge has enabled will afford some consolation""",DISAGREE,"""Now , however , genes are `` losing their""","""I 'm sure""",,
7709,2039,"""Ha ! Now , however , genes are `` losing their glitter. `` Now , it 's RNA that seems to be `` running the show. `` How can it get anymore embarrassing for science that they got the premise wrong for all these years ?""","""I 'm sure the huge strides in medical technology our incomplete knowledge has enabled will afford some consolation""",DISAGREE,"""Now , it 's RNA that seems to be `` running the show. ``""","""I 'm sure the huge strides in medical technology our incomplete knowledge has enabled""",,
7720,2041,"""Biologically speaking , the fetus is human ...""","""But psychologically speaking , a first trimester fetus is not a being since it lacks sentience . DNA is all it takes to confirm that something is human ; like your fingernail pairings .""",DISAGREE,"""fetus is human ...""","""first trimester fetus is not a being since it lacks sentience . DNA is all it takes to confirm that something is human ; like your fingernail pairings .""",,
7740,2053,"""I 'd congratulate you on your win DamEtel , but I 'm more impressed with your patience .""","""Well , I personally agree that I 'spanked ' marc9000 ( http : //www.4forums.com/political/showthread.php ? t=6348 ) . But we 'll have to leave it to the judges to make the formal decision .""",AGREE,"""I 'd congratulate you on your win DamEtel ,""","""I personally agree""",,
7741,2053,"""I 'd congratulate you on your win DamEtel , but I 'm more impressed with your patience .""","""Well , I personally agree that I 'spanked ' marc9000 ( http : //www.4forums.com/political/showthread.php ? t=6348 ) . But we 'll have to leave it to the judges to make the formal decision .""",AGREE,"""congratulate more impressed with your patience""","""I personally agree that I 'spanked ' formal decision .""",,
7744,2054,"""All of the points above should be considered if you want to produce a solid argument that a series of events actually occured in the past . If you wish others to take this seriously please produce some relevant evidence from a source that held to a higher level of credibility . By your standards I should make a thread based on the National Enquirer or Star about Kerry 's life as a male gigolo or golddigger .""","""You can do so , and if I do n't check your source I guess I 'm SOL , eh ? I 've seen the story many places , but this is beyond simply a site dedicated to outing Bush since its a radio show : P""",DISAGREE,"""All of the points above should be considered a source that held to a higher level of credibility""","""You can do so , and if I do n't check your source I guess I 'm SOL , eh ? beyond simply a site dedicated to outing Bush""",,
7763,2058,"""is it hard to imagine similar eyes , but are less complex on a more basic level ?""","""Yes , if the intermediate stages do n't work .""",DISAGREE,"""is it hard to imagine similar eyes""","""Yes""",,
7778,2062,"""Do you mean : not to allow women to abort if they wish so is more preposterous than to equal manslaughter with abortion ?""","""I think you mean `` equate. ``""",AGREE,"""to equal manslaughter with abortion ?""","""I think you mean `` equate. ``""",,
7783,2063,"""Have n't you seen all of the programs and News reels of people with their necks being crushed by toilet seats ? I recall seeing an Emergency Room on a Fridday night in downtown Detroit that was full of people turning blue because they had a toilet seat wrapped around their neck ! ( Some folks will say anything , eh ? LOL ! ! ! )""","""Yes they sure will .... with what 776 accidental deaths last year due to guns as opposed to 3,402 accidental drownings seems like more should be spent on preventing drownings than guns . But if your intellect is not up to understanding hyperbole ( literary form of exageration to express a point ) I will try in the future to keep it down to your level .""",DISAGREE,"""I recall seeing an Emergency Room on a Fridday night in downtown Detroit that was full of people turning blue because they had a toilet seat wrapped around their neck ! ( Some folks will say anything , eh ? LOL ! ! ! )""","""Yes they sure will .... with what 776 accidental deaths last year due to guns as opposed to 3,402 accidental drownings seems like more should be spent on preventing drownings than guns .""",,
7781,2063,"""Have n't you seen all of the programs and News reels of people with their necks being crushed by toilet seats ? I recall seeing an Emergency Room on a Fridday night in downtown Detroit that was full of people turning blue because they had a toilet seat wrapped around their neck ! ( Some folks will say anything , eh ? LOL ! ! ! )""","""Yes they sure will .... with what 776 accidental deaths last year due to guns as opposed to 3,402 accidental drownings seems like more should be spent on preventing drownings than guns . But if your intellect is not up to understanding hyperbole ( literary form of exageration to express a point ) I will try in the future to keep it down to your level .""",DISAGREE,"""Some folks will say anything , eh ? LOL ! ! !""","""if your intellect is not up to understanding hyperbole I will try in the future to keep it down to your level .""",,
7813,2076,"""i think the bible is a great book , its teachings are great but so are just about EVERY other religion""","""Oh really , so blowing yourself and a bunch of other innocent people up in the name of Allah is a `` great teaching `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""i think the bible is a great book , its teachings are great but so are just about EVERY other religion""","""Oh really , so blowing yourself and a bunch of other innocent people up in the name of Allah is a `` great teaching `` ?""",,
7826,2078,"""Miracles , such as Jesus ' resurrection , can provide evidence for a religious belief , which hence , provides evidence for God 's existence , following directly from a principle which J. L. Mackie has defended , and requires no assumptions about violations of natural laws . The principle states that a piece of evidence raises the likelihood of a hypothesis whenever that evidence is more likely given the hypothesis . The principle follows from the axioms of probability and is central to common sense reasoning . Footprints in the dirt confirm that someone has been walking there since the footprints are more likely to be there given that someone did walk there . The sound of the siren suggests that there is a fire nearby , for a siren is more likely to be heard when there is a fire nearby . Antony Flew and Mackie both agree that while miracles are extremely improbable , their occurrence is more likely on the assumption that God exists . More specific religious beliefs may rise further the likelihood of a miracle . So it follows from Mackie 's criterion of confirmation that the occurrence of miralces may confirm religious hypotheses . For instance , since the resurrection of Jesus is far more likely on the assumption that He was divine , the resurrection , if we knew it to have occurred , would confirm Jesus ' divinity and thus the truth of the Bible and it 's revelation about God and His existence . Of course , it does not prove it , but it does provide substantial support .""","""again , this is only good as a reasonable assumption , and nothing more . in many cases , the least likely answer is true . you can not create evidence out of assumptions . you test the assumptions against reality , then the assumptions can be confirmed . i agree that reasonable assumptions are useful , but basing an assumption upon another assumption causes the likeliness to decrease . for example , under the assumption that ( a ) jesus is devine , and that ( b ) God exists , it is likely that ( c ) jesus performed miracles . c can only be considered a reasonable assumption of a and b were already true . since a and b are assumptions themselves , then it makes c much more unlikely . as opposed to the case of the footprints . if ( a ) people wear shoes and ( b ) there is a footprint in the lawn , it is likely that ( c ) a person stood on the lawn . in this case , a and b are verifiable , and by they being true , we can consider c a reasonable assumption""",DISAGREE,"""Miracles , such as Jesus ' resurrection , can provide evidence for a religious belief , which hence ,""","""we can consider c a reasonable assumption""",,
7851,2082,"""Nice spin by way of projection but you are wrong as usual . I find your defination of your position to be too funny . Like it is some how wrong to turn the tables on the left by using their methods .""","""So you 're not denying that pro-gun activists in Heller used ( or misused ) the courts to further their own agenda ?""",DISAGREE,"""Like it is some how wrong to turn the tables on the left by using their methods .""","""you 're not denying that pro-gun activists in Heller used ( or misused ) the courts to further their own agenda ?""",,
7869,2085,"""Almost but not quite all ? It has been observed to change one kind of plant into another .""","""Really , did it take long ? ROFL . Did they turn grass into a tree or maybe rice into a tomato ? Got pics ?""",DISAGREE,"""Almost but not quite all ? It has been observed to change one kind of plant into another .""","""Really , did it take long""",,
7878,2087,"""But , I guess that when one worships the Almighty Fetus , the lives of real people are of no concern .""","""the fetus would be a real person ... and it seems like .... in order to make the iraq war/abortion connection .... you would have to support the war !""",DISAGREE,"""lives of real people are of no concern""","""the fetus would be a real person""",,
7881,2087,"""But , I guess that when one worships the Almighty Fetus , the lives of real people are of no concern .""","""the fetus would be a real person ... and it seems like .... in order to make the iraq war/abortion connection .... you would have to support the war !""",DISAGREE,"""I guess that when one worships the Almighty Fetus""","""the""",,
7880,2087,"""But , I guess that when one worships the Almighty Fetus , the lives of real people are of no concern .""","""the fetus would be a real person ... and it seems like .... in order to make the iraq war/abortion connection .... you would have to support the war !""",DISAGREE,"""when one worships the Almighty Fetus ,""","""the fetus would be a real person""",,
7883,2088,"""As do you .""","""What , to be `` open-minded ? `` or to embrace your definition of `` tolerance ? ``""",DISAGREE,"""As do you .""","""What , to be `` open-minded ? `` or to embrace your definition of `` tolerance ? ``""",,
7903,2091,"""If biology must close its eyes to the defining characteristic of life , such biology is not science . It is a creation myth for materialists .""","""Well , it does n't , so it is n't . Biology is well aware that many things have volition , and there are whole branches of biology dedicated to studying it . Animal behavior they call it . However , biology does n't not pretend that every living thing has volition .""",DISAGREE,"""If biology must close its eyes to the defining characteristic of life""","""Well , it does n't , so it is n't""",,
7916,2093,"""There is no easy answer .""","""There is an answer , and that answer is Truth-based . Of course , for the 99.99999 % of human beings , Truth is not just hard , but impossible .""",AGREE,"""There is no easy answer .""","""There is an answer""",,
7920,2094,"""The majority does not determine reality . Our science education is already behind other countries . Catering to the ignorant is n't going to help us catch up .""","""You prove my point exactly . Just because 99 % of scientists believe in evolution , why should I ? You are right , by catering to evolutionists we are getting behind in our education .""",AGREE,"""Our science education is already behind other countries""","""You are right , by catering to evolutionists we are getting behind in our education .""",,
7933,2097,"""Michael Moore belongs to NRA .. he never said he was anti gun ... I worked on Bowling for Columbine , and so many people got the wrong impression""","""Oh ? You worked on Bowling ? When did the NRA and KKK ever burn a cross together ? Hmmm ? I can take a hint . Just something about that movie tells me Mike Moore is anti-gun . Hey how about Chuck Hestons speech ? Some how I got the impression he gave the speech in Denver ? Did you ? You know the 'from my dead hands speech ' . Anyhow how did Chuck Heston get to wear TWO different suits from one speech ? Anyhow . If Mike Moore of Flint Michigan was behind that counter , would Mike Moore be alive ? Survive with broken facial bones ? Survive with internal injuries ? Or overhelming beat his attacker that he survives unhurt and stopped his attacker ?""",DISAGREE,"""Michael Moore belongs to NRA .. he never said he was anti gun ... I worked on Bowling for Columbine , and so many people got the wrong impression""","""Oh ? You worked on Bowling ? When did the NRA and KKK ever burn a cross together ? Hmmm ? I can take a hint . Just something about that movie tells me Mike Moore is anti-gun .""",,
7935,2098,"""The latest ignorance from Answers in Genesis ( AiG ) : My favorite part : Apparently , all them dinosaurs were just too dumb to climb to higher ground or swim ( despite the fact that animals are among the first to do so in disasters - example would be the tsunami in Christmas 2004 ) All of this also avoids the flying reptiles such as the Pteranodons . Also , apparently humans are unique in that they are the only ones whose corpses bload and float to the water 's surface . What garbage will they come up with next ?""","""thatisnt stupid , its what teh bible says . teh dinosaurs are heavier thatn humans so they sunk and humans foated . the arc protecid the rest ans they died later when humans kiled them tehy still see dinos today in congo so some survivd .""",DISAGREE,"""Pteranodons""","""dinosaurs""",,
7961,2103,"""This thread follows on from a discussion elsewhere , in which I said I would consolidate the issues I have with EAM as it has been described to me . I 'd like to preface my comments with a bit of personal context . I 'm often accused of being a 'darwinist ' , the implication being that I am emotionally shackled to a particular philosophical perspective . This is not the case . Accusations of being a 'materialist ' similarly have no teeth in this discussion , for the very simple reason that if a Vital force exists and can influence the physical world then it too belongs to the natural and material , rather than the supernatural . Materialism would simply expand to accommodate it , as it has with other forces .""","""* * A couple of quick poiints . First , you are very emotionally involved in the materialist/mechanist metaphysic , whether you grasp the full implications of that metaphysic , [ beyond its denial of certain religious mythologies ] , or not . Otherwise you would not so vehemently and tenaciously defend that metaphysic against any suggerstionthatits take on reality , its ontology/cosmoly , is incorrect -- even when , as in the case of EAM , that suggestion comes from a metaphysical quarter that has no ideological connection to any religious mythology , and in fact is also antithetical to those myths .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm often accused of being a 'darwinist ' , the implication being that I am emotionally shackled to a particular philosophical perspective . This is not the case . Accusations of being a 'materialist ' similarly have no teeth in this discussion""","""First , you are very emotionally involved in the materialist/mechanist metaphysic , whether you grasp the full implications of that metaphysic , [ beyond its denial of certain religious mythologies ] , or not""",,
7969,2104,"""You just do n't get it . Americans are freemen . Your faith in governments over people is humorous ... How does it fell to lick the bootheels of your government overlords ..... Rights are inalienable to man . One man has NO right to intefere with another man . I should be able to do as I please as long as I do not intefere with others ... How does your government feel about that ?""","""Hmmm ... interesting . Where does this inalianable right derive from and how does it really work ? I mean , clearly you can not create your own army called Islamic Jihad of Al queda Supporters and start to develop weapons of mass destruction on your own farm , regardless if that organisation actually interfer with someone else . As for bootlicking Please drop the rethorics and explain how you mean instead .""",DISAGREE,"""Rights are inalienable to man . One man has NO right to intefere with another man . I should be able to do as I please as long as I do not intefere with others""","""Where does this inalianable right derive from and how does it really work ?""",,
7972,2105,"""If the justification for morality is obedience to a divine authority , it has no place in a public school . Those without religious beliefs are not by definition immoral .""","""Here is how the exchange went down . Person one . We need to teach morals to our students . Person two . Well if you do that , who 's morals will you teach ? I may disagree . No one could answer that question so they taught no morals . I think we should start by agreeing that things like , but not exclusively , murder , stealing , and hate is wrong . Teach that in which we can agree !""",DISAGREE,"""Those without religious beliefs are not by definition immoral .""","""Teach that in which we can agree !""",,
7984,2107,"""Barbarian observes : It 's remarkable then , how much progress we 've made . You may or may not approve of the theory , but it works very well at learning more about biology . And , as you may have noticed , we 've been very successful at interpreting the data . We 've learned to do a lot of things as a result . One of the most important reasons scientists accept the theory is that it works .""","""What is the `` Scientific Method `` of evolutionary research in contrast to the `` Scientific Method `` of Creation research ? And why is your method superior ?""",DISAGREE,"""And , as you may have noticed , we 've been very successful at interpreting the data . We 've learned to do a lot of things as a result . One of the most important reasons scientists accept the theory is that it works .""","""What is the `` Scientific Method `` of evolutionary research in contrast to the `` Scientific Method `` of Creation research ? And why is your method superior ?""",,
7988,2108,"""'' kinds `` is meaningless""","""kind : Race ; genus ; species ; generic class .""",DISAGREE,"""kinds `` is meaningless""","""kind : Race ; genus ; species ; generic class .""",,
7989,2108,"""'' kinds `` is meaningless""","""kind : Race ; genus ; species ; generic class .""",DISAGREE,"""kinds `` is meaningless""","""kind : Race ; genus ; species ; generic class .""",,
7999,2109,"""I support legalization of every drug . I 'm sure most of you are young and have been fed XXXX like `` Marijuana will kill you. `` Actually it does less damage to the brain then alcohol and it can not kill you . It is impossible . It takes 20,000 joints in one sitting to overdose on marijuana . Alcohol however kills thousands of americans each year from alcohol poisoning . You know that XXXXX pothead . He did n't get dumb from pot , he got dumb from birth . Marijuana does not have long term effects on IQ . The only side effect is the lazy side effect . The day after a person tends to be more lazy however it is like a hang over ..... it only lasts for a day . There is no reason why it should remain illegal . I also support all drugs being legalized because the drug war has failed . We spend billions each year on the drug war and I can call someone right now and pick up some crack . It is a failure . What we should do is make it government controlled and then spend the money to fight drugs on drug education . Flood the schools with ACTUAL info about how herion kills and how it breaks a person down . Tell the kids how you can die from one use of coke . Tell them the short term and long term effects of each drug . If we can educate our kids and even adults through an ad campaign about what drugs do to you then we could save far more people . Also allowing drugs to be regulated will lower the prices and effectively kill drug dealers and gangs off the streets . There are so many benefits to legalizing drugs . Anyone want to fight it ? I have proof to back up what I say and also have the effects of each drug .""","""You 're an XXXXX who has obviously never worked ina first responder category . If you think that increasing the volume and social acceptance of drug use to the same level of alcohol will 'solve ' anything , then you are just an XXXXX . You have obviously never seen whart drug abuse does to families and people 's lives . You 're right , alcohol is worse , and the main reason its worse is because of 2 reasons , volume and availability ala social acceptance . Legalizing all drugs would have catastrophic social impacts . Do n't feed me that line about taxing it and using the money for rehab . We have taxed the XXXX out of tobacco and alcohol the last 100 years and the last time I checked alcoholism and lung cancer had n't been erradicated .""",DISAGREE,"""I support legalization of every drug . I 'm sure most of you are young and have been fed XXXX like `` Marijuana will kill you .""","""You 're an XXXXX who has obviously never worked ina first responder category .""",,
8023,2113,"""Portugal March , 2001 . Lesbian and gay couples who have lived together for more than two years the same rights as heterosexual couples in common law marriages""","""I wonder how you say `` Ooops `` in Portuguese . If anyone knows , tell jyoshu .""",DISAGREE,"""Portugal March , 2001 . Lesbian and gay couples who have lived together""","""Ooops `` in Portuguese . If anyone knows , tell jyoshu .""",,
8038,2116,"""Hehe I ca n't tell a difference between my philosophy and science , it is all knowledge that is gained through non-contradictory inquiry into reality .""","""And yet quantum physics tends to be very contradictory , at least to our perceptions . Acausal events happen . A particle can be in two places at the same time . A particle can disappear and reappear in a different location without traversing that distance . And et cetera . Since the beginning of our local universe occurred at quantum levels , I would be cautious about drawing philosophical conclusions based on our macro-world experiences .""",DISAGREE,"""philosophy and science""","""local universe occurred at quantum""",,
8040,2117,"""The `` Institute for Creation Research USA `` is not a reputable scientific organization . Their research 's conclusions are foregone . There is n't enough water to cover the Himalayas or other large mountain ranges even with no polar ice caps .""","""All things are possible with God . The flood was His judgement on the earth , He created the earth , and therefore He has the power to make what ever He wants to happen happen including make water come out of `` nowhere. `` The Bible describes how water came from both above the earth and from below . My God is the God of the impossible !""",DISAGREE,"""The `` Institute for Creation Research USA `` is not a reputable scientific organization . Their research 's conclusions are foregone .""","""All things are possible with God . The flood was His judgement on the earth , He created the earth , and therefore He has the power to make what ever He wants to happen happen including make water come out of ``""",,
8043,2117,"""The `` Institute for Creation Research USA `` is not a reputable scientific organization . Their research 's conclusions are foregone . There is n't enough water to cover the Himalayas or other large mountain ranges even with no polar ice caps .""","""All things are possible with God . The flood was His judgement on the earth , He created the earth , and therefore He has the power to make what ever He wants to happen happen including make water come out of `` nowhere. `` The Bible describes how water came from both above the earth and from below . My God is the God of the impossible !""",DISAGREE,"""The `` Institute for Creation Research USA `` is not a reputable scientific organization .""","""The Bible describes how water came from both above the earth and from below .""",,
8051,2119,"""Seems all the drills would broadcast when they had a leftie . Just could wait for that case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down the shirt .""","""He would probably love the old Egyptian 'hakim ' in 8mm . on the FN action which is about as slick as they come . Turn up the gas pressure a bit and it will fling them foward and to the right and hit about as hard as the bullet Ugly looking suckers but look like a piece of pipe in a single tree from a wagon . Shot some good groups with those things ...""",AGREE,"""Seems all the drills would broadcast when they had a leftie . Just could wait for that case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down the shirt .""","""He would probably love the old Egyptian 'hakim ' in 8mm . on the FN action which is about as slick as they come .""",,
8050,2119,"""Seems all the drills would broadcast when they had a leftie . Just could wait for that case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down the shirt .""","""He would probably love the old Egyptian 'hakim ' in 8mm . on the FN action which is about as slick as they come . Turn up the gas pressure a bit and it will fling them foward and to the right and hit about as hard as the bullet Ugly looking suckers but look like a piece of pipe in a single tree from a wagon . Shot some good groups with those things ...""",AGREE,"""Seems all the drills would broadcast when they had a leftie . Just could wait for that case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down the shirt .""","""He would probably love the old Egyptian 'hakim ' in 8mm . on the FN action which is about as slick as they come . Turn up the gas pressure a bit and it will fling them foward and to the right and hit about as hard as the bullet Ugly looking suckers but look like a piece of pipe in a single tree from a wagon .""",,
8049,2119,"""Seems all the drills would broadcast when they had a leftie . Just could wait for that case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down the shirt .""","""He would probably love the old Egyptian 'hakim ' in 8mm . on the FN action which is about as slick as they come . Turn up the gas pressure a bit and it will fling them foward and to the right and hit about as hard as the bullet Ugly looking suckers but look like a piece of pipe in a single tree from a wagon . Shot some good groups with those things ...""",AGREE,"""case of M-1 thumb or the hot one down""","""bullet Ugly looking suckers""",,
8065,2122,"""If it benefits you want , have at it . Work on Congress to come up with something like PACS . If it 's an attack on the definition of marriage , then get lost .""","""`` attack on the definition of marriage `` ? Why is it an `` attack `` to include gay couples in as married ? Would it be an `` attack `` on something for blacks to not have to be segregated from whites ?""",DISAGREE,"""If it benefits you want , have at it . Work on Congress to come up with something like PACS . If it 's an attack on the definition of marriage , then get lost .""","""attack on the definition of marriage `` ? Why is it an `` attack `` to include gay couples in as married ?""",,
8070,2123,"""Then a man who needs an artifical heart to survive is a new species of man . That is the analogy I gave , and you ignored .""","""And well he should have ignored it . Your analogy is nonsense .""",DISAGREE,"""That is the analogy I gave you ignored .""","""And well he should have ignored it . Your analogy is nonsense .""",,
8077,2124,"""That is very sexist . It is sad that you are ashamed of being male .""","""Oh Good Grief ! It sounds very like you are extremely unsure of your manhood to be so threatened by a funny little story .""",DISAGREE,"""ashamed male""","""manhood threatened""",,
8089,2127,"""You made a 'just-so ' statement about what is scientific method , and your own talkorigins site suggested this was one of several philosophies . Further you said definitions do n't need to be justified/proven , and again I cited talkorigins that shows this is n't the case . Sorry you missed it ! See post # 115 of `` Out of China `` and Post # 145 of `` Lets discuss the actual reason creationists object to evolution `` for scientific method , note the later I responded to questions you 'd asked . You 'd have thought you 'd have been curious to see what answer I had posted to a question you 'd asked . and Post # 147 of `` Lets discuss the actual reason creationists object to evolution `` for definitions of definition""","""I responded to your posts on the thread of `` Lets discuss the actual ... `` I suggest we continue that discussion there .""",DISAGREE,"""You made a 'just-so ' statement about what is scientific method , and your own talkorigins site suggested this was one of several philosophies . Further you said definitions do n't need to be justified/proven , and again I cited talkorigins that shows this is n't the case . Sorry you missed it ! ``""","""I responded to your posts on the thread of `` Lets discuss the actual ... `` I suggest we continue that discussion there .""",,
8103,2130,"""ev·o·lu·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key ( v-lshn , v- ) n. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form . See Synonyms at `` development `` . 1 . The process of developing . 2 . Gradual development . 3 . Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations , as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals , and resulting in the development of new species . 4 . The historical development of a related group of organisms ; phylogeny . 5 . A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements .""","""this is where the most confusion comes in , and why many evolutionist that are particular about the definition of evolution gets into arguments . # 3 is the only one close to the scientific definition , and still this is technically lacking and only serves the very layman level you continue to insist that all misinformation is a result of YEC 's distorting the definitions . YEC 's didnt write the definitions in dictionary.com , noe the hundreds of other dictionarys that have similar definitions . furthermore , your definitions have done nothing to educate people who are seeking more information . they only serve to display your disdain for creationists and your lack of objectivity""",DISAGREE,"""A gradual process in which something changes""","""distorting the definitions .""",,
8108,2131,"""How does the law define gun ? What if I could throw bullets from my hand at 500 MPH ? Would my arm count as a gun or could I just continue to go around with something more dangerous than most guns ? Just wondering .""","""It is the lower receiver with the serial number . Everything else on the weapon are 'parts ' .""",DISAGREE,"""define gun""","""It is the lower receiver with the serial number .""",,
8114,2132,"""I think I remember seeing some post concerning that . It think it went to the affect of the buy back paid only a fraction of what the weapon was worth . But anyways I hope it never does happen here . A voluntary buy back is fine but a forced one should n't be considered . I do n't believe the government will make it a policy to increase gun controls to the level where it is forcing people to get rid of guns . I think they realize the 2nd amendment is strongly against this and they would get called on it .""","""I think the problem is , some people believe that gun control , any gun control , is one step closer to the total surrender of all guns . My belief on this is that every time someone calls for repeal of gun control laws or opposes the new gun control laws , it fuels the anti-gun extremists to call for the total ban on all guns . If we can not make and enforce common sense gun control laws that both sides can agree on , neither side will ever stop . If a buy back was ever proposed in America , very few guns would be sold . If guns were banned all together , only the law abiding people will give up their guns , and anyone who does not will unfortunately become a criminal .""",AGREE,"""A voluntary buy back is fine but a forced one should n't be considered .""","""some people believe that gun control , any gun control , is one step closer to the total surrender of all guns .""",,
8140,2138,"""You do n't seem to grasp the concept of the hostile witness . Of course he is an evolutionist , they both are , if Ken Ham said that it would not mean much . What they are both saying is that the people who promote the dinosaurs to birds scenario are lying propagandist , not scientist . Just so you ca n't say I took it out of context here is Dr. Olsen 's letter in it 's entirety .""","""Your use of language is rather colourful here ( lying propagandist ! ) and smacks of hyperbole . What is being critisised here is bad application of the scientific method in relation to National Geographic 's articles on the nature of relationship between birds and dinosaurs . I think Olsen makes some very pertinent points , but at no stage is he saying that evolution does not occur or the possibility that there is no link between any theropods and birds ever . What he correctly draws attention to is poor peer review and less than conclusive evidence to support the hypothesis of the article 's author . In turn this is a stinging criticism of the NG given its high profile , reputation and claim to being a leading forum for the presentation of science in a popular format .""",DISAGREE,"""You do n't seem to grasp the concept of the hostile witness""","""Your use of language is rather colourful here ( lying propagandist ! )""",,
8175,2147,"""A position of pro-choice is pro-life because the lives and quality of life of women are valued .""","""The quality of life ethic is far different from sactity/dignity of life ethic . A quality of life ethic carried out to its logical conclusions does not promote a pro-life society . Instead , there would be genocide against the handicapped , elderly , and people who people of power have deemed life unworthy of life . The problem with this ethic is that it is centered in arbritrary people deciding arbritarily which person passes the `` quality of life `` test .""",DISAGREE,"""A position of pro-choice is pro-life because the lives and quality of life of women are valued .""","""The problem with this ethic is that it is centered in arbritrary people deciding arbritarily which person passes the `` quality of life `` test .""",,
8176,2148,"""Yes it was . The Noachian flood did not occur . Ignoring the obvious impossibilities of the ship/animals/etc , we see that the results a global flood would have caused do not exist .""","""I see results . I see lakes in the middle of continents with no rivers leading to them . How did they get there ?""",DISAGREE,"""Ignoring the obvious impossibilities of the ship/animals/etc""","""I see lakes in the middle of continents with no rivers leading to them .""",,
8196,2152,"""Far too simplistic to be called accurate , there is some truth in this .""","""How would I fill in some of the gaps ? Here was my sequence : something like unicellular life to multi-cellular life , random multi-cellular conglomerations to an amoeba , to a fish , to a dinosaur , to a mammal , to an ape , and finally to a man ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""Far too simplistic to be called accurate , there is some truth in this .""","""like unicellular life to multi-cellular life , random multi-cellular conglomerations to an amoeba""",,
8198,2153,"""It can get worse . For example its difficult to justify a sponge turning into a mammal . The number of changes is enormous and sponges are also not known for being particulary caring of their young .""","""yea but ToE does n't say mammals evolved from sponges -- it says we evolved from reptiles .""",DISAGREE,"""its difficult to justify a sponge turning into a mammal""","""does n't say mammals evolved from sponges""",,
8209,2155,"""For pro-lifers , it is not simply because an embryo shares human DNA . It is because the embryo is a human being . It makes no differences whether the embryo is developing , for it is then simply a developing human being .""","""But why ? What is so important about an embryo that it can be given a `` person `` status ?""",DISAGREE,"""For pro-lifers , it is not simply because an embryo shares human DNA .""","""What is so important about an embryo that it can be given a `` person `` status ?""",,
8225,2168,"""And you say juleacatz is the one who views pregnancy as a punishment for women .""","""Oh I hated being pregnant . However I am not really arguing whether pregnancy in and of itself is punishment , I suspect that is an opinion matter - there are some crazy women who actually liked pregnancy . Julie - however clearly feels that it is acceptable to use a pregnancy and parenting in a punitive matter against women she feels are irresponsible .""",AGREE,"""you say juleacatz is the one who views pregnancy as a punishment for women .""","""I am not really arguing whether pregnancy in and of itself is punishment , I suspect that is an opinion matter - there are some crazy women who actually liked pregnancy""",,
8240,2172,"""Storrs Olson , curator of birds at the National Museum of Natural History said : `` The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith . Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program , which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age -- -the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. ``""","""this is a rant . no argumentative value . its cool that he 's a curator of birds though interesting that one of the main goals of creationist scientists is to first discredit science by any means necessary . once they accomplish that in their audience , they proceed to show how they apply science to strengthen their case for creation . a very interesting approach , i must say""",DISAGREE,"""Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program , which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age""","""this is a rant . no argumentative value .""",,
8243,2173,"""I just read an article in Discovery magazine about smashing two protons together , going near the speed of light , inside of a huge , two mile ring . The proton breaks into Quarks and Gluans . This experiment is being used to understand what happened when the big bang went bang . I think they 're trying to understand how the protons formed the matter in the big bang . I did n't read the whole article , but let me try to find it . It would be interesting to see what happens . I 've always been fascinated with the big bang , and we may finally start to understand much more about it and how it happened . Thoughts ?""","""This should be in the science section , not the CvE section . Do n't give SS any more reason to believe that the big bang is part of biology .""",DISAGREE,"""I just read an article in Discovery magazine about smashing two protons together ,""","""This should be in the science section , not the CvE section .""",,
8265,2177,"""Is there a `` Let her have the baby and place it with one of the thousands of waiting adoptive couples so she does not have to raise it , nor does she have to live with the potential guilt issues involved in having an abortion `` option ? Is there an option where I get to hunt the SOB down and beat him to death with a claw hammer ?""","""Now you 're talking .""",AGREE,"""the baby and place it with one of the thousands of waiting adoptive couples""","""Now you 're talking .""",,
8300,2184,"""4 ) Reptile develops birdlike bones . Bones break , dinos ca n't do anything , go extinct . One less species .""","""Absolute nonsense . Bird bones are very strong and offer the added advantage of being light . According to your logic birds should be extinct and unable to do anything .""",DISAGREE,"""Reptile develops birdlike bones One less species""","""Bird bones are very strong unable to do anything""",,
8304,2186,"""Not for pleasure craft . Commercial vessels , maybe . I agree with the British . The yachters should have known better .""","""So indignities offered our citizens will be tolerated if dispensed in small doses ? Maybe we might educate the pirates what they should `` know better `` than to try . My taxes pay to have a Navy presence around the world . Americans are American interests .""",DISAGREE,"""Not for pleasure craft . Commercial vessels , maybe . I agree with the British .""","""So indignities offered our citizens will be tolerated if dispensed in small doses ?""",,
8320,2191,"""Does anyone know how Carbon Dating Works ?""","""Sure . Here is an explanation . The 14C Method That is from the Radiocarbon WEB info site by the Waikato Radiocarbon Dating Lab of the University of Waikato ( New Zeland ) . That 's how I think it works , so the ball in in your court now .""",AGREE,"""Does anyone know how Carbon Dating Works ?""","""Sure . Here is an explanation .""",,
8324,2192,"""So , in other words , you an intelligent actor weed out the programs that do n't look like anything that resembles a living thing . Then you keep building up on the programs that look most like life . You are the creator of this cyber-universe ! So much for 'natural ' selection !""","""well yes that 's what he did , but he did not try to present this as positive evidence for anything . the biomorphs were used to illustrate the point that random mutations are much more likely to produce beneficial results when the mutations are small . analogies always break down at some level , this analogy was used to illustrate a certain point . the assertion that dawkins was suggesting that a biomorph happening to look like a real life object were proof that evolution and natural selection could produce such creatures is false . montalban , to restore integrity i suggest you retract the conclusion you drew from snippets and quotes from dawkins as your paraphrasing was clearly not representative of dawkins ' ideas .""",DISAGREE,"""you an intelligent actor weed out the programs that do n't look like anything that resembles a living thing . Then you keep building up on the programs that look most like life . You are the creator of this cyber-universe ! So much for 'natural ' selection !""","""the assertion that dawkins was suggesting that a biomorph happening to look like a real life object were proof that evolution and natural selection could produce such creatures is false . montalban , to restore integrity i suggest you retract the conclusion you drew from snippets and quotes from dawkins as your paraphrasing was clearly not representative of dawkins ' ideas .""",,
8334,2194,"""Why should mere blobs of animate matter be concerned for the temporary well-being of other blobs if both are going to die ?""","""So that is your opinion of humanity ? How sad . Or maybe your are erecting a strawman and not doing a very good job of knocking it down .""",DISAGREE,"""Why should mere blobs of animate matter be concerned""","""So that is your opinion of humanity ? How sad .""",,
8349,2197,"""http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v=ibqwKb4cCsg""","""Oh , he does n't want abortion , huh ? If you take the Old Testament to be true , you just lied here . Let 's look , shall we ?""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.youtube.com/watch ? v=ibqwKb4cCsg""","""Oh , he does n't want abortion , huh ? If you take the Old Testament to be true , you just lied here . Let 's look , shall we ?""",,
8351,2198,"""Firstly , i do n't know why you 're all trying to read in between the lines . I am in my late teens . I am not trying to be compasionate and although i 'm not perfect , i can easily decide whether i get pregnant or not .""","""No offense , but I am in my early teens and understand the situation more than you .""",DISAGREE,"""i do n't know why you 're all trying to read in between the lines . I am in my late teens . I am not trying to be compasionate and although i 'm not perfect , i can easily decide whether i get pregnant or not .""","""No offense , but I am in my early teens and understand the situation more than you .""",,
8355,2206,"""So why have we a abandoned so much of the old testiment law ? Stop eating pork , cutting your hair , shaving your beard ( especially you girls ) , unless of course you just wish to adhere to those laws that are convenient .""","""Well there 's a new Covenant / Testament . But Jesus declared all foods clean so you can have your pork . Check for trichinellas , which is probably one reason it was n't on God 's preferred list in those unsanitary times . Recommended study for you : Investigate the different kinds of laws ( i.e . moral , civil / tort , ceremonial , dietary ) . Then look at how these issues are treated in the NT .""",DISAGREE,"""have we a abandoned so much of the old testiment law""","""Jesus declared all foods clean so you can have your pork""",,
8376,2211,"""One has to wonder why gun haters always ask this quesion ( sic ) . Has this question ever been asked of people that read books ? It is interesting how people that want to ban the right to bear arms never apply their logic to the rights they like .""","""Spot the difference between reading a book and carrying a gun . I 'm sorry if you ca n't . People do n't carry books because they 're worried about being assailed by someone with an eraser .""",DISAGREE,"""One has to wonder why gun haters always ask this quesion ( sic ) . Has this question ever been asked of people that read books ?""","""Spot the difference between reading a book and carrying a gun . I 'm sorry if you ca n't .""",,
8386,2213,"""I had a school project create-a-world . I created Earth with everything you see here , including all the people . I also implanted in many of your minds the fact that your Christian , along with experiences to back it up , and all other religions including agnosticism and atheism , as well as hinduism , bhudism , etc . My project was to then go onto a debate forum ( I made you think you made your past posts , I really did ) and see if I could convince people of the truth . If I do n't get enough people to know the truth , I 'll have to blow up the world and I 'll fail my project . Please believe in the truth and go to the church of Zachvac .""","""I 'm afraid you 're wrong , as I created you in my universe , and implanted in you a belief that you were a god . It lead you to make statements about the truth of your own beliefs , which I 'm afraid are just self-beliefs with no real evidence . Sorry .""",DISAGREE,"""I had a school project create-a-world . If I do n't get enough people to know the truth , I 'll have to blow up the world and I 'll fail my project .""","""It lead you to make statements about the truth of your own beliefs , which I 'm afraid are just self-beliefs with no real evidence""",,
8398,2216,"""D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty announced yesterday he will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court a federal court ruling against the city 's 30-year-old handgun ban .""","""I did n't think they would have the guts after getting slapped so badly last time out . I mean , there is loosing a case , and then there is getting kicked up and down the street and dragged through a field of tacks , which is pretty much happened when last time out .""",DISAGREE,"""appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court a federal court ruling against the city 's 30-year-old handgun ban .""","""getting slapped so badly last time out . getting kicked up and down the street and dragged through a field of tacks ,""",,
8415,2219,"""Now you 're claiming that a gun is a precision machine . Before you 've claimed that the guns you classify as `` assault weapons `` are `` inaccurate and designed for be fired from the hip `` . Which is it ? Prove it then . Then you 've got absolutely no justification for supporting gun control , you should be supporting criminal control instead . Then why do you keep supporting laws that would restrict access to guns , rather than making it harder for violent offenders to get out of prison and back on the streets where they pose the greatest danger ? Then what 's your justification for wanting to make it harder for good people to have access to firearms ? Do you fear something in particular ? Or do you just not like how some people choose to exercise their rights and want them curtailed in a way that makes you feel better ?""","""Argueing with penfold is like wrestling a pig in the mud , the pig enjoys it .""",DISAGREE,"""Before you 've claimed that the guns you classify as `` assault weapons `` are `` inaccurate and designed for be fired from the hip `` .""","""Argueing with penfold is like wrestling a pig in the mud ,""",,
8419,2220,"""( .... ) Darwin clearly understood the threat of directed variability to his cardinal postulate of creativity for natural selection . He explicitly restricted the sources of variation to auxiliary roles as providers of raw material , and granted all power over the direction of evolutionary change to natural selectionÂ… . He recognized biased tendencies to certain states of variation , particularly reversions toward ancestral features . But he viewed such tendencies as weak and easily overcome by selection . Thus , by the proper criterion of relative power and frequency , selection controls the direction of change : Â “ When under nature the conditions of life do change , variations and reversions of character probably do occur ; but natural selection , as will hereafter be explained , will determine how far the new characters thus arising shall be preserved ( p. 15 ) ( Gould 2002 : 145 )""","""And you still have provided no evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwin clearly understood the threat of directed variability to his cardinal postulate of creativity for natural selection .""","""And you still have provided no evidence .""",,
8424,2221,"""This is just more sensationalism . It reminds me of what happened when they found the 70ma old extinct coelacanth alive . [ I was not alive then for the sa 's here ] What was once a `` clever stratigraphic connection `` that dated rocks and proved lobe-finned fish walked out of the sea and became amphibians was no longer extinct . Was this proof of a fallacy in Darwins Fairy Tale ? Of course not it proved some lobe-finned fish became amphibians and some did not .""","""Well , at least you realize that . Just the way some apes became humans and some became chimps .""",AGREE,"""fallacy in Darwins Fairy Tale ?""","""least you realize that . Just the way some apes became humans and some became chimps""",,
8423,2221,"""This is just more sensationalism . It reminds me of what happened when they found the 70ma old extinct coelacanth alive . [ I was not alive then for the sa 's here ] What was once a `` clever stratigraphic connection `` that dated rocks and proved lobe-finned fish walked out of the sea and became amphibians was no longer extinct . Was this proof of a fallacy in Darwins Fairy Tale ? Of course not it proved some lobe-finned fish became amphibians and some did not .""","""Well , at least you realize that . Just the way some apes became humans and some became chimps .""",AGREE,"""Was this proof of a fallacy in Darwins Fairy Tale ? Of course not it proved some lobe-finned fish became amphibians and some did not .""","""at least you realize that . Just the way some apes became humans and some became chimps .""",,
8430,2222,"""asahi.com ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Unloaded rifle on TV triggers controversy - English OTSU , Shiga Prefecture -- Given this nation 's strict gun control law , were police overreacting when they swooped on a TV broadcaster that had allowed a celebrity to handle a hunting rifle during a live broadcast ? The Shiga prefectural police insist they were perfectly within their rights , but TV networks are outraged , citing the fact the weapon was not loaded . The incident stems from a show aired Jan. 17 by Biwako Broadcasting Co . Almost four months later , police mounted a search of the premises and confiscated a dozen items , including a script and a DVD of the show . Critics accuse the police of being overzealous and question their motives , but law enforcement officials remain unrepentant . Shiga prefectural police regard the incident , in which a hunter with a gun permit allowed TV personality Noburo Harada , 57 , to momentarily handle the rifle during the show , as a serious breach of a law concerning the storage and management of firearms . So much so , in fact , that on June 12 , the prefectural police referred the case to prosecutors . As a result , the hunter , aged 49 , along with a 60-year-old TV producer and a 37-year-old director of the show , could face charges of violating the swords and firearms control law . Police did not pursue a case against Harada even though he briefly handled the weapon . Police argued that he did not actually `` possess `` the rifle because the hunter handed it to him in an unscripted moment during the broadcast . Police justified their search on grounds that they needed to determine if the law concerning the storage and management of firearms had been broken . The show , called `` Tokimeki Shiga 'S , `` is broadcast one Saturday a month . In the show , Harada visits various locations in the prefecture as a travel guide . The program in question was set in Yogo , where Harada and other cast members were served a pot of wild boar meat . The hunter who had killed the boar appeared in the scene . He offered the unloaded weapon to Harada and asked , `` Do you want to hold it ? `` Harada held the rifle and commented , `` It 's heavy , is n't it ? `` adding , `` Not everybody has a chance to hold it , right ? `` He held the firearm for six seconds and then gave it back . Biwako Broadcasting says the scene in which the hunter handed over the rifle was not in the script and was improvised . The TV crew decided to display the rifle on the show after the hunter told the director he had no problem with the idea at a preliminary meeting . The prefectural police began their investigation after a complaint by a viewer . The intervention by the police flabbergasted Harada and employees of other TV stations . '' I never could have imagined anything like this , `` Harada , a former member of the male comedy duo Anonenone , told reporters after he was questioned by police on June 2 . '' I was stunned. `` Akihiko Ito , head of the TV station 's programming department , said the station would cooperate with police , but defended Harada 's actions . '' We consulted our lawyers , and it is hard to believe that touching a rifle for about six seconds is equivalent to possessing it , `` he said . A spokesperson with a TV station based in Osaka sharply criticized police . '' They should have at least asked ( Biwako Broadcasting ) to cooperate voluntarily , `` a spokesperson said . '' From a common sense standpoint , we can not even comprehend what the police were thinking. `` An employee at another TV station was also critical . '' If we , for example , were to produce a program about a knife shop and an actor picked up a large knife , would the police investigate us , too ? `` the employee asked . '' Such an overreaction would be intimidating toward people trying to do their jobs . This would ultimately undermine viewer interest in programming. `` But police say they do n't understand what all the fuss is about . They say the media has , by focusing on the celebrity angle , blurred the facts in the case . A senior official with the Shiga prefectural police said the real issue is not that Harada briefly held the rifle , but whether bringing the rifle to the live broadcast was appropriate in terms of `` storage and management. `` An explanation for the police tactics may lie in the revised gun control law , which took effect in January . The law was tightened after a 37-year-old man in Sasebo , Nagasaki Prefecture , shot and killed two people and wounded six in December 2007 . The man , known for erratic behavior , committed suicide after the shooting . The incident called into question whether existing regulations regarding gun permits and firearm storage were adequate . '' I believe the hunter who handed the rifle to the actor and the TV crew lacked an awareness of the firearm 's potential danger , `` another police official said . According to the National Police Agency , police can file a case against anybody if he or she , with criminal intent to kill or injure people , possesses a weapon for even a second . A case can be built based not on the length of time of possession , but on the purpose of possession , the presence of criminal intent and whether the suspect tricked or maneuvered the gun owner . The Shiga prefectural police justify the raid on the grounds that they had to find out how it was possible to bring a gun to the show . By transporting the gun to the show , the hunter may have violated the rules under which he was granted a gun permit , police asserted . They defended questioning Harada and the crew as crucial to ferreting out the real issue -- did those involved in the program improperly store and manage the weapon ? Takaaki Hattori , professor of media law at Rikkyo University in Tokyo , says that police went too far . '' The way the police conducted their investigation is not convincing . I sense they were trying to use the media to sell the public on the revised gun control law , `` he said . '' They should have been more cautious about the exercise of power by public authorities. `` But he also said the broadcaster could have been more prudent . '' The TV station should consider whether it was absolutely necessary to use a gun in making the show . The gun owner may have been primarily responsible , but the broadcaster is also to blame for lacking awareness of the law. `` Takaaki Matsumiya , professor of criminal law at Ritsumeikan University School of Law in Kyoto , disagrees that the TV station or the hunter were in any way culpable and lays the blame on the authorities . Citing a precedent set by the Tokyo High Court in June 1967 , he said : `` The high court decided that the act of touching a handgun for dozens of seconds by a man brokering the sale of a handgun during the transfer did not constitute 'possession , ' `` he said . '' There have been no precedents to alter that interpretation . Harada did not 'possess ' it ( during the show ) . `` Matsumiya also defended the hunter who brought the rifle to the set . '' When the precedent concludes that a person 'has no legitimate reason ' for bearing and carrying a firearm , it assumes that he or she was going to do harm or ran a risk of doing harm , `` he said . '' It is obvious that was not the case under these circumstances . '' ( IHT/Asahi : July 2,2009 ) Now then , what 's all this bull * * * * about how other industrialized nations are better off with regard to guns when compared to America ? I do n't see such being the case , do you ? If you ca n't even touch a gun that somebody hands you to examine without breaking the law , that is a serious violation of human rights and everything else . How can Japan be so much better off than we are , if it 's a crime for somebody to hand you a rifle to look at but not to keep ; especially when it 's unloaded ! ?""","""A taste of what could be our future if the left has its way .""",AGREE,"""Unloaded rifle on TV triggers controversy Shiga Prefecture nation 's strict gun control law were police overreacting when they swooped on a TV broadcaster that had allowed a celebrity to handle a hunting rifle during a live broadcast ? police insist they were perfectly within their rights , but TV networks are outraged , citing the fact the weapon was not loaded `` '' Now then , what 's all this bull * * * *""","""A taste of what could be our future if the left has its way .""",,
8445,2224,"""I 'm not joing the anti-gay rights movement here , but perhaps they are thinking that people are trying to add a new element to their already established bathrooms . For example , the introduction of glass partitioning instead of the traditional barriers . They try closing their eyes , but they ca n't resist the urge to look and then ... arrrggghhh !""","""Or perhaps Mach just does n't understand the concept of an 'analogy . ' No one was claiming they want 'rights restricted ' because of of bathrooms . He 's either being beligerent by intentionally portraying the analogy as a premise , or incredibly dense . I 'm starting to wonder if it 's the latter . . . .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not joing the anti-gay rights movement here ,""","""Or perhaps Mach just does n't understand the concept of an 'analogy""",,
8460,2234,"""It seems to me that allowing anyone to disarm us and having no way to defend ourselves is a whole lot like giving the keys to our homes to a criminal . The government as well as criminals who arent going to give up their guns in the first place would have total control over all of us because we would have no viable means in which to fight back , we would either have to obey , go to prison , or possibly die . I think it is a travesty that so many anti-gun proponents would spit in the faces of men and women who have fought and died to keep us free from such things by not only allowing this to happen , but they actually support it . Our service men and women didnt make those sacrifices just to protect us from foreign tyrants , but from any from within as well . These people need to wake up before it is too late and stop promoting the removal of what may be our most important right of all .""","""Sooner or later it will come down to hand them over or else , like 50 cal . sniper rifles , ( never leave home with out one ) just a foot in the door . they ever come to my door their gon na lose some toes.http : //www.4forums.com/political/ima ... lies/xkill.gif""",AGREE,"""allowing anyone to disarm us and having no way to defend ourselves is a whole lot like giving the keys to our homes to a criminal , I think it is a travesty that so many anti-gun proponents would spit in the faces of men and women""","""sniper rifles , ( never leave home with out one ) just a foot in the door . they ever come to my door their gon na lose some""",,
8486,2238,"""* there are 105.5 million households in the USA . * 5.5 million of these consist of unmarried partnerships , * of these , 595,000 consist of same sex partners .""","""So that 's 0.5 % of `` households `` whatever that means nowadays .""",DISAGREE,"""of these , 595,000 consist of same sex partners .""","""So that 's 0.5 % of `` households ``""",,
8503,2248,"""Seriously ? That 's your reasoning ?""","""Er , no . That is AnswersinGenesis ' reasoning . Are you having difficulties reading ? It seems so , as you are unable to distinguish between what a poster says and what an organization they are quoting says .""",DISAGREE,"""Seriously ? That 's your reasoning ?""","""Er , no .""",,
8511,2250,"""Roe v. Wade and another case should be overturned on the basis of false testimonies anyway . See recent issue of `` Focus on the Family , Thirty Years of Lies `` . '' Roe `` has said that she lied in court along with someone in another case relating to this matter .""","""Yes , and she 's prolife now , but the basis of the ruling is still the same , and even if it were overturned it would n't be too long before another case went to court . The question is would it get the same ruling ? Probably yes , there had been a change of opinion due to change in justices than they would have found reasons to overturn it already , since they have n't they most likely agree .""",AGREE,"""on the basis of""","""still the same""",,
8512,2250,"""Roe v. Wade and another case should be overturned on the basis of false testimonies anyway . See recent issue of `` Focus on the Family , Thirty Years of Lies `` . '' Roe `` has said that she lied in court along with someone in another case relating to this matter .""","""Yes , and she 's prolife now , but the basis of the ruling is still the same , and even if it were overturned it would n't be too long before another case went to court . The question is would it get the same ruling ? Probably yes , there had been a change of opinion due to change in justices than they would have found reasons to overturn it already , since they have n't they most likely agree .""",AGREE,"""another case should be overturned on the basis of false testimonies anyway . '' Roe `` has said that she lied in court along with someone in another case relating to this matter .""","""the basis of the ruling is still the same""",,
8521,2252,"""Then I 'm glad I 'm not your future child . If you can feel nothing remorseful from having your baby killed at all , then I pity the children you raise . I would think you 'd have more heart than this .""","""I do not empathise with an embryo or early fetus the way I imagine I would with my late-term fetus or born child . I fully intend to have children in the future , including through adoption possibly . When I do I will love them with all my heart and put their needs above my own . I 'm not going to do a half-assed job of parenting ; I 'll give it 100 % . But not yet . Prototype :""",DISAGREE,"""Then I 'm glad I 'm not your future child .""","""'ll give it 100 % . But not yet .""",,
8533,2254,"""If we look at a closed system , as materialists suppose our universe to be , and look strictly at the material , physical events occurring within it , and assume that it is receiving no further 'physical ' inputs than were the 'initial conditions ' of the 'Big Bang ' , then it becomes plausible to believe , as materialist/mechanists most adamantly insist , that every single change event that occurred , is occurring , or ever will occur , was predestined , immutable , and inevitable , no matter whether it was anomalous or was systematic , right down to the last typo I 've made so far in this post . All thanks to what they label as 'inititial conditions ' . In the case of 'the big bang ' they 've another word for that , too , -- something that call a 'singularity ' . One more cute bumper-sticker that has no real meaning behind it at all . Seen from that angle , everything that occurs in any 'system ' is simply a continuation of the action of the 'drivers ' involved in the 'initial conditions ' , no matter how protracted that action may be . The 'initial conditions ' of 'the break ' in a game of billiards determining exactly where each ball will end up , no matter how many ricochets it makes off rails and other balls . And so on for each shot throughout the systematized process that is the game entire . And that is very much the view of the universe 's internal systems as held by materialists today . The closed system that is the universe seen as a variation on a pool shot , i.e. , `` assumed `` , 'taken for granted ' , initial conditions determining various dissipatory extentions in subsequents events , until 'the table ' is all used up , entropically . All 'systems ' , be they physical or biological , as allopoietic strings of predestined and mechanically inevitable entropic outcomes . That mentality is utterly satisfactory until it slams into a brick wall called biology . All of a sudden we have autopoietic systems where phenomena are observed that can not be justified or rationalised in terms of 'initial conditions ' , nor in terms of additional external physical inputs , and allopoietic controls , but only in terms of initial and continuing psychical inputs . This does not stop true-believing materialists from trying to rationalise these psychical biological phenomena back into their mechanical mindset , however . We hear new magic words from them intead . Words like , 'epiphenomena ' and 'emergence ' . More euphemisms for 'spontaneous generation ' , aka , 'creatio ex nihilo , ab nihilo ' . Aka , 'magick ' . Materialism , and the darwinism it spawned , is an extremely superstitious mindset .""","""But here I slam into my own brick wall , one which neatly intersects my path down your chain of reasoning . Biological systems are simply orders of magnitude more complex than any other chemical processes because they are , by definition , autocatalytic-with-errors systems , which is a giant leap in terms of potential , in terms of the variety of future system-states that can be generated . But it is still possible to model these system-state trajectories in terms of probability , which is where chaos theory and emergence come in . To bring myself to a close , I return to my original point . The concept 'emergence ' is a human-imposed concept that can be easily described , if you so wish , as new information arising in a system ex nihilo . But it is equally easily ( and more precisely ) described as a rearrangent of a system 's information in a way that is specifically unpredictable . That is what emergence is . There is no 'energy ' created ex nihilo . There is no 'matter ' created ex nihilo . The only thing that seems to be created ex nihilo is that sudden realisation within the human mind that the patterns of information have drastically changed in a way that redefines the entire system . This is why maths is essential , because the maths shows that the system has merely been reorganised , albeit radically . It is such radical restructuring of information that I suspect gives rise to apparent consciousness . As I have said before , I do not deny consciousness , and I do prefer to think that it is real . But I do not assume that it is anything but apparent when I am making analytical judgements , and I can not begin to imagine how you come to the conclusion that organisms such as bacteria possess it when they specifically , are quite obviously and evidently , no more than fiendishly complex micromachinery . With mammals it 's another story .""",AGREE,"""then it becomes plausible to believe , as materialist/mechanists most adamantly insist , that every single change event that occurred""","""But here I slam into my own brick wall , one which neatly intersects my path down your chain of reasoning .""",,
8538,2256,"""Do you know what conclusions the person drew from this ? What conclusions do you draw from this ? That people that own guns are less scared ? Or just nicer people ?""","""Or that they tend to be better prepared , or even less willing to accept help from others or get breakdown cover . That 's the trouble with these kind of stats , the interpretations are pretty open to debate .""",DISAGREE,"""That people that own guns are less scared ?""","""Or that they tend to be better prepared ,""",,
8550,2262,"""So , as a result , the population as a whole has lost the information for making short haired dogs and has not gained any new information .""","""So what ? The allele frequency , even in your example has still changed . A change in an allele frequency in a population over time is , by definition , evolution . What did you think that evolution was ?""",DISAGREE,"""short haired dogs and has not gained""","""change in an allele frequency""",,
8555,2263,"""The appendix is a good one . Who ever thought of putting that in there ?""","""Well , if you were a herbavore it might be a good place to temporarily store plant matter to allow bacteria to break it down so that nutrients would be available to you . But of course you are n't and so it is neither good nor bad until infected . Well , actually it 's good since it does seem to have a role in the immune system , a role that is shared with the rest of the small intestine . But the small intestine has a different , more obvious role too .""",AGREE,"""The appendix is a good one""","""the small intestine has a different , more obvious role too .""",,
8562,2266,"""So what ? Most of them are still getting killed with guns .""","""Yeah they were . Mostly killed by criminals with guns . Now prove that any legislation that Obama could have enacted would have prevented those deaths . I 'm not holding my breath and I 'm not expecting a rational response either ...""",AGREE,"""Most of them are still getting killed with guns .""","""Mostly killed by criminals with guns""",,
8568,2268,"""Is that what you said right before they started banning assault weapons ? 'Oh , let 's just see what Sarah Brady wants to do ? ' Obviously , you 're gullible . Since you 're such a brainiac and all , why do n't you visit the UN website and see what your beloved UN is up to ? And again , read this slower this time ( if that helps ) 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . '""","""Read THIS slower :""",DISAGREE,"""started banning assault weapons ? Sarah Brady""","""Read THIS slower""",,
8569,2268,"""Is that what you said right before they started banning assault weapons ? 'Oh , let 's just see what Sarah Brady wants to do ? ' Obviously , you 're gullible . Since you 're such a brainiac and all , why do n't you visit the UN website and see what your beloved UN is up to ? And again , read this slower this time ( if that helps ) 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . '""","""Read THIS slower :""",DISAGREE,"""banning assault weapons""","""slower :""",,
8574,2283,"""Here 's a nice little Google def : A convinced belief ; a condition of mind fully satisfied ; next to actual knowledge . We have faith the sun will rise to-morrow morning , but the knowledge can not be actual until after sunrise . '""","""This is a pretty loose definition . It 's like saying you have faith that Jesus will come again because you personally witnessed his ressurection . But you did n't , you have faith because you believe this with absolutely no material evidence or logic to back it up .""",DISAGREE,"""A convinced belief ; a condition of mind fully satisfied""","""you have faith because you believe this with absolutely no material evidence or logic to back it up .""",,
8573,2283,"""Here 's a nice little Google def : A convinced belief ; a condition of mind fully satisfied ; next to actual knowledge . We have faith the sun will rise to-morrow morning , but the knowledge can not be actual until after sunrise . '""","""This is a pretty loose definition . It 's like saying you have faith that Jesus will come again because you personally witnessed his ressurection . But you did n't , you have faith because you believe this with absolutely no material evidence or logic to back it up .""",DISAGREE,"""A convinced belief ; a condition of mind fully satisfied ; next to actual knowledge .""","""This is a pretty loose definition .""",,
8597,2288,"""Who would you say is likely to be the better mother , the one that wanted the child or the one that did n't ?""","""Well both could be a good mother because i know a mother who was very certain she did n't want her baby and went for an abortion but was too late on in her pregnancy to have one and then she was going to give himup fpr adoption but as soon as he was born she loved him and could n't bear to give him up and know she 's a great Mum . Being a good mother mainly depends on what you are like with you 're child after birth .""",DISAGREE,"""Who would you say is likely to be the better mother , the one that wanted the child or the one that did n't ?""","""Well both could be a good mother because i know a mother who was very certain she did n't want her baby and went for an abortion but was too late on in her pregnancy to have one and then she was going to give himup fpr adoption but as soon as he was born she loved him and could n't bear to give him up and know she 's a great Mum . Being a good mother mainly depends on what you are like with you 're child after birth .""",,
8599,2288,"""Who would you say is likely to be the better mother , the one that wanted the child or the one that did n't ?""","""Well both could be a good mother because i know a mother who was very certain she did n't want her baby and went for an abortion but was too late on in her pregnancy to have one and then she was going to give himup fpr adoption but as soon as he was born she loved him and could n't bear to give him up and know she 's a great Mum . Being a good mother mainly depends on what you are like with you 're child after birth .""",DISAGREE,"""would you say is likely to be the better""","""Well both could be a good""",,
8596,2288,"""Who would you say is likely to be the better mother , the one that wanted the child or the one that did n't ?""","""Well both could be a good mother because i know a mother who was very certain she did n't want her baby and went for an abortion but was too late on in her pregnancy to have one and then she was going to give himup fpr adoption but as soon as he was born she loved him and could n't bear to give him up and know she 's a great Mum . Being a good mother mainly depends on what you are like with you 're child after birth .""",DISAGREE,"""Who would you say is likely to be the better mother , the one that wanted the child or the one that did n't ?""","""Being a good mother mainly depends on what you are like with you 're child after birth .""",,
8600,2289,"""Does anyone know how Carbon Dating Works ?""","""yea ... it 's like ordering a pizza . First the paleontologist digs up a bone or other artifact ... then he calls the lab , tells them what he found and gives them the date they can expect the bone to arrive for `` testing. `` Then the lab asks him from what organism the bone once belonged and also what toppings , I mean dates , he wants for his bone . Then the paleontologist gives him the range of dates that most suit his presuppositions ..... Then the paleontologists sends in the bone fed-ex , along with a gift-certificate to the finest steakhouse in town and two tickets to the ballgame , and then sits back and waits for the results . Finally , just to be on the safe side , the paleontologist repeats this scenario with at least 2 more labs ... this way just in case one does n't cooperate he has backup and he can pick a date from any number of labs .""",DISAGREE,"""how Carbon Dating Works ?""","""does n't cooperate""",,
8610,2291,"""As a Christian comfortable with their faith and reality .""","""The Bible contradicts `` reality `` . So does heaven and hell . Once you start doubting parts of the Bible , the rest falls apart . Can you PROVE that their is a heaven or a hell ? Can you PROVE that there are miracles ? No ! When you do n't believe in part of the Bible , you might as well not believe in all of it .""",DISAGREE,"""As a Christian comfortable with their faith and reality""","""Bible contradicts `` reality `` When you do n't believe in part of the Bible , you might as well not believe in all of it .""",,
8619,2292,"""BUT along come a man-made invention that allows those certain portions to live on , and survive . In once case - nylon , the other , the artifical heart . You call this evolution .""","""What does a mutation have to do with a heart transplant ? What are you smoking ?""",DISAGREE,"""BUT along come a man-made invention that allows those certain portions to live on , and survive . In once case - nylon , the other , the artifical heart . You call this evolution .""","""What does a mutation have to do with a heart transplant ?""",,
8628,2294,"""How is that a strawman ? Your challenge directly relies upon something you assume to be proven , but has not been . Therefore even in a hypothetical stance , your underlying arguments are invalid , thus leading to everything else being invalid . You 're not doing so well on this forum .""","""It is clearly not a strawman argument . I think he does n't know what `` straw man `` means and I think he is meaning to say `` red herring. `` It is n't a red herring either ; it 's a perfectly logically related question . I would guess he does n't see that as he neither understands evolution nor bacterial resistance and , thus , the relationship .""",DISAGREE,"""How is that a strawman ?""","""I would guess he does n't see that as he neither understands evolution nor bacterial resistance and , thus , the relationship .""",,
8649,2298,"""I think what hurts me the most , is when I meet scientists that have slowly turned to atheism and agnosticism Because of science . We all doubt . It is in our nature . But , science is just too small . It is impossible for me to live inside of it 's box .""","""But why do you think that doubt limits people 's ideas ? If anything it helps to expand them .""",DISAGREE,"""when I meet scientists that have slowly turned to atheism and agnosticism""","""do you think that doubt limits people 's ideas ?""",,
8653,2299,"""Well , I have disagreed . But supposing that you are right ( and you are not as I have shown ) , then you have successfully shown that abortion is frowned upon in Scripture . The verses you quote ALL describe the actions in those verses negatively . Congratulations , you proved what you were trying to disprove .""","""Actually , no , they do NOT . The first three ALL describe God causing them - are you saying the bible is describing God 's actions negatively ? Or are you saying that killing your precious foetuses is just fine as long as the persons carrying them are `` wicked `` . Sorry , but you need to get an argument , Phyllis . +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Spelling and grammar for this post has been checked and cleared +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++""",DISAGREE,"""you proved what you were trying to disprove""","""Actually , no ``""",,
8692,2307,"""do n't know since I do n't believe in evolism or creationism .""","""so whats your belief of how life/the universe began lurch ? ( if any )""",AGREE,"""do n't know since I do n't believe in evolism or creationism .""","""so whats your belief of how life/the universe began lurch ?""",,
8697,2308,"""Now , if the mother chooses to abort that person will not be born .""","""Well , by the strict defintion of the word `` born `` , an abortion is considered a premature birth .""",AGREE,"""if the mother chooses to abort that person will not be born .""","""an abortion is considered a premature birth .""",,
8699,2308,"""Now , if the mother chooses to abort that person will not be born .""","""Well , by the strict defintion of the word `` born `` , an abortion is considered a premature birth .""",AGREE,"""if the mother chooses to abort that person will not be born .""","""by the strict defintion of the word `` born `` , an abortion is considered a premature birth""",,
8707,2309,"""Exactly . Most people would incorporate it , from childhood most often . Steeeeve ca n't seem to wrap his mind around that .""","""Really ? ? ? You think most people would incorporate the golden rule ? I do n't think so -- I think most people are willing to make a buck off of others ( business ventures ) , land that job they want before someone else gets it , curse someone for cutting them off in traffic , get that parking spot before the guy coming around the corner gets it , or even get in an intentionally insulting dig to someone in a discussion forum such as this . The examples could go on and on ... I think a lot of people like to THINK they incorporate the golden rule , but at close , honest examination would find that they rarely do .""",DISAGREE,"""Most people would incorporate it , from childhood most often .""","""You think most people would incorporate the golden rule ? I do n't think so""",,
8729,2314,"""[ url ] The concept that mutations occur by chance is often questioned by non-evolutionists as being a requirement for strict randomness , but just what they mean by this is usually left unstated . In addition evolutioinsts do not in general specify what `` by chance `` or random actually means . Depending on ones world view there may in fact be no events which occur `` by chance `` as every event is viewed as causal . Accepting that ( and its likely that events at the genetic level are indeed causal ) , the question is what `` form `` or randomness are evolutionists really talking about . WW claims that the very fact that mutaions are not strictly acausal ( and in his not so well developed opinion are DIRECTED towards greater fitness by something other than selection - ie a vitalist hypothesis . Its useful to nail this question down tight .""","""Just a layperson of course . But I 'll give it a stab . ... For besides the point that vitalism is an untestable hypothesis and thus useless in looking at these questions ... How does such reasoning prove anything of the sort . All you have is the fact that humans understand the reasons for some variations and not for others . Besides , a selected variation does not mean that it will bode for the best . That is WW 's interpretation and value judgment ... in hindsight ... a variation of the view .. twas God 's will , He knew what he was doing ... but all you have definitively established is that you yourself looked to the past and infered intent as to the future based on your selective perceptions about what was going on and what feels good . Time and space are muddled . Seems to me that the observer using the more effective scientific method sticks ( well ) religiously to the present moment . Plus , `` acausal `` doesn ’ t really mean `` no cause , `` does it ? Just that we haven ’ t determined one . It looks to me like the agnostic view . We do n't know what 's going on . Random also seems to mean that there are unknown variables or conditions present . Reminds me of discussion re abiogenesis and the term `` spontaneous. `` I think us laypeople at least mistakenly look at causation in a very linear fashion . Rather than in terms of a set of conditions giving rise to other phenomenon . An aside . I don ’ t like the  “ mistake ” view ( DNA replication ) . Back to direction , if there 's a wrong turn . Written before seeing the more recent posts .""",DISAGREE,"""The concept that mutations occur by chance is often questioned by non-evolutionists""","""Back to direction , if there 's a wrong turn . Written before seeing the more recent posts .""",,
8766,2322,"""You need n't be far left to support reasonable gun regulation . What current firearm related issue would drive an `` anti-gunner `` to commit a terrorist act ? Or are you just lumping anyone who supports gun control in with PETA and radical environmental groups ? I 'd be watching for the next murderous domestic terrorist to come from the ranks of those sporting teabags . Wan na place a little wager ?""","""Suckers bet ? I think so , you anti 's are so damned ascared of guns you do n't have a clue of how to commit a `` murderous domestic terrorist `` act of that nature . Your nothing but a bunch of pacifist , scared of your own shadows , with Brady leading you .""",DISAGREE,"""What current firearm related issue would drive an `` anti-gunner `` to commit a terrorist act ?""","""you anti 's are so damned ascared of guns you do n't have a clue of how to commit a `` murderous domestic terrorist ``""",,
8771,2323,"""It is all relative to our perspective Matt , so from the perspective of the Age of Grace , the Age of the Law seemed harsh . But do n't forget that the same God who gave us the Age of the Law , also gave us the Age of Grace which we currently reside in . And you can thank what Jesus did for this Age .""","""So in other words , you 're saying that somewhere along the lines , God changed his mind .""",DISAGREE,"""But do n't forget that the same God who gave us the Age of the Law , also gave us the Age of Grace which we currently reside in . And you can thank what Jesus did for this Age .""","""you 're saying that somewhere along the lines , God changed his mind .""",,
8773,2324,"""btw , the reason the definition of `` God `` is `` God `` is because that is how the public percieves it ... 90 % of the world believes in `` God `` .""","""90 % of the people in the world are Christians ? XXXXX-""",DISAGREE,"""90 % of the world believes in `` God `` .""","""% of the people in the world are Christians ?""",,
8776,2324,"""btw , the reason the definition of `` God `` is `` God `` is because that is how the public percieves it ... 90 % of the world believes in `` God `` .""","""90 % of the people in the world are Christians ? XXXXX-""",DISAGREE,"""the reason the definition of `` God `` is `` God `` is because that is how the public percieves it ... 90 % of the world believes in `` God `` .""","""90 % of the people in the world are Christians ?""",,
8789,2331,"""2 ) Informed viewers of Expelled might NOT think Stein was giving speeches on college campuses , if they had any knowledge of `` speech codes `` and other games played in todays universities to keep conservatives out . When I saw that scene , I sure did n't think it was a college campus . I did n't give much thought to where it was , but it was no crime to stage it . It is a movie , after all .""","""1 ) You think that most viewers of the movie will be informed ? You sure as hell were n't until you came back and read a link that you would n't have read on your own . 2 ) Presenting the scenario as if Stein were addressing an actual audience when the `` audience `` is composed of virtually nothing but stand-ins is dishonest no matter which way you slice it . To say that it 's okay to be misleading because it 's a movie just backs up the point that we 've been making all along . These people are n't interested in presenting truth ; it 's all about propagandism .""",DISAGREE,"""Informed viewers of Expelled might NOT think Stein was giving speeches on college campuses , if they had any knowledge of `` speech codes `` and other games played in todays universities to keep conservatives out . When I saw that scene , I sure did n't think it was a college campus . I did n't give much thought to where it was , but it was no crime to stage it . It is a movie , after""","""You think that most viewers of the movie will be informed ? You sure as hell were n't until you came back and read a link that you would n't have read on your own . 2 ) Presenting the scenario as if Stein were addressing an actual audience when the `` audience `` is composed of virtually nothing but stand-ins is dishonest no matter which way you slice it . To say that it 's okay to be misleading because it 's a movie just backs up the point that we 've been making all along . These people are n't interested in presenting truth ; it 's all about propagandism""",,
8810,2335,"""Let me rephrase , what in the life of Jesus do you have a problem with ? Not a problem in the practices of the church or the people , but in the being that we believe in . Which part do you have a problem with , or do you simply have a problem with the fact that is a `` religion `` .""","""This is a very simple , easily answerable question . Most people , especially in America , have problems with people telling them what to do . Teenagers hate being under the authority of adults . Adults hate being under the authority of the government and enforcers of the law . Everyone in the world is under worldly authority , but to actually have a God who created you , which gives him the right to make commandments stating what is good for you and what is not , that makes most people really XXXXXX off .""",DISAGREE,"""Which part do you have a problem with , or do you simply have a problem with the fact that is a `` religion ``""","""This is a very simple , easily answerable question""",,
8818,2337,"""Yeah , it was 9-zip on the individual right to kba in Heller . Over 35,000 watchers ... no one thought it would not be incorporated . Part of the transcript with Tom and Erin :""","""Hm , that does not seem to match the reading of Steven 's dissent . He seems pretty set against incorporation . [ T ] he right to possess a firearm of one & # 8217 ; s choosingis different in kind from the liberty interests we have recognized under the Due Process Clause . Despite the plethora of substantive due process cases that have been decided in the post-Lochner century , I have found none that holds , states , or even suggests that the term & # 8220 ; liberty & # 8221 ; encompasses either the common-law right of self-defense or a right to keep and bear arms and In short , while the utility of firearms , and handguns in particular , to the defense of hearth and home is certainly relevant to an assessment of petitioners & # 8217 ; asserted right , there is no freestanding self-defense claim in this case . The question we must decide is whether the interest in keeping in the home a firearm of one & # 8217 ; s choosing & # 8212 ; a handgun , for petitioners & # 8212 ; is one that is & # 8220 ; comprised within theterm liberty & # 8221 ; in the Fourteenth Amendment The practical impact of various gun-control measures may be highly controversial , but this basic insight should not be . The idea that deadly weapons pose a distinctive threat to the social order & # 8212 ; and that reasonable restrictions on their usage therefore impose an acceptable burden on one & # 8217 ; s personal liberty & # 8212 ; is as old as the Republic . As THE CHIEF JUSTICE observed just the other day , it is a foundational premise of modern government that the State holds a monopoly on legitimate violence""",DISAGREE,"""Yeah , it was 9-zip on the individual right to kba in Heller . Over 35,000 watchers ... no one thought it would not be incorporated . Part of the transcript with Tom and Erin :""","""that does not seem to match the reading of Steven 's dissent . He seems pretty set against incorporation""",,
8851,2345,"""Do n't be too sure of yourself because he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say .""","""I 've said more truth on this forum alone than you could ever hope to comprehend . Of course , overwhelming your comprehension probably is n't hard at all , so perhaps that 's not saying much . To say that Archie has a better track record with the truth here than do I is pretty much admitting that you have n't been following along , ca n't read , or are delusional as Archie is . I wo n't rule out a combination .""",DISAGREE,"""he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say""","""I 've said more truth on this forum alone than you could ever hope to comprehend .""",,
8862,2347,"""Most women do not feel this way about their abortions -- unless they have been programmed to do so .""","""Not really .""",DISAGREE,"""do not feel this way""","""Not really""",,
8874,2349,"""Assuredly , a very high state of being constantly afraid .""","""Oh joy another drive by with absolutely no proof or evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""Assuredly , a very high state of being constantly afraid""","""Oh joy another drive by with absolutely no proof or evidence""",,
8887,2351,"""Originally posted by voiceofreason I just thought it was interesting that the same court that is protecting our first amendment freedoms is also correctly interpreting the second amendment .""","""Again , `` THE MOST OVERTURNED COURT IN HISTORY ``""",DISAGREE,"""protecting our first amendment freedoms""","""THE MOST OVERTURNED COURT""",,
8886,2351,"""Originally posted by voiceofreason I just thought it was interesting that the same court that is protecting our first amendment freedoms is also correctly interpreting the second amendment .""","""Again , `` THE MOST OVERTURNED COURT IN HISTORY ``""",DISAGREE,"""it was interesting that the same court that is protecting our first amendment freedoms is also correctly interpreting the second amendment .""","""THE MOST OVERTURNED COURT IN HISTORY""",,
8907,2355,"""The way I see it- if government can regulate free speech to protect people againt things like obscenity and libel""","""Actually they ca n't . The government does n't have the authority to tell people they ca n't curse in public .""",DISAGREE,"""government regulate free speech obscenity and""","""The government does n't have the authority ca n't curse in public""",,
8915,2357,"""or that they just do n't want the child . This is not a sufficient argument . If you do n't want to have the child , protect yourself , or * practice abstinance * .""","""You mean `` No ! sex `` , 'til you want * response-ably * to nurture a baby . What novel ideas !""",DISAGREE,"""do n't want the child not a sufficient argument""","""No ! sex `` response-ably What novel ideas !""",,
8923,2358,"""Object to the woman being required to remain pregnant when she does not want to be .""","""Is that the entire Pro-Choice objection ? Is that the whole Pro-Choice argument ? Does it really boil down to a question of pregnancy versus death , rather than slavery versus death ? If so , I am Pro-Life .""",DISAGREE,"""Object required to remain pregnant when she does not want to be .""","""Pro-Choice objection Does it really boil down to a question of pregnancy versus death , rather than slavery versus death ?""",,
8927,2359,"""To expound on my last post : And yet this is taken to be fact unanimously in our history books . Funny how easy this book gets a pass . If we think it 's Homer then for this book , that 's good enough . But not so with the Bible . There can be absolutely no kernel of uncertainty , which in ancient texts , ambiguity is unavoidable . In regards to who wrote these books , the best evidence we have leads to Homer . Therefore , we decide it is almost certainly Homer who is the author . This is undisputed . However , in regards to the Bible , skeptics overturn the use of Occam 's Razor and require more than adequate proof of the Bible 's claims . Even though the Bible is the most heavily documented writing of its day , still skeptics require more in order to believe the Gospels are actually true . Double standard much ?""","""Ah , but then , it might not have been Homer . But then again , whether it was Homer or someone else , is n't earth shattering . Much like whether it was Julius Caesar who crossed the Rubicon , or a decoy of his . Now , if we found an account from Roman times of how Julius Caesar split the waters of the Rubicon by urinating in it so his troops could pass ... Occam 's Razor would not point towards accepting it as true . In reading about John the Baptist ... should one listen to the Bible , or Josephus ?""",DISAGREE,"""However , in regards to the Bible , skeptics overturn the use of Occam 's Razor and require more than adequate proof of the Bible 's claims . Even though the Bible is the most heavily documented writing of its day , still skeptics require more in order to believe the Gospels are actually true . Double standard much ?""","""Now , if we found an account from Roman times of how Julius Caesar split the waters of the Rubicon by urinating in it so his troops could pass ... Occam 's Razor would not point towards accepting it as true . In reading about John the Baptist ... should one listen to the Bible , or Josephus ?""",,
8933,2361,"""Seems like you criticize him for allowing the government to `` give `` something , then criticize because it 's not enough .""","""So what 's the deal when GWB `` gives `` $ 3,000 but the insurance premiums cost $ 6,000 , the family ca n't make up the difference and the $ 3,000 goes unspent . All we 've accomplished is to transfer $ out of the U.S. Treasury . You think it 's a good idea to just give money away and not get anything for it ? You 're thinking of the Clinton years when there was a surplus .""",DISAGREE,"""Seems like you criticize him for allowing the government to `` give `` something , then criticize because it 's not enough .""","""the family ca n't make up the difference and the $ 3,000 goes unspent .""",,
8936,2362,"""... I feel that though the overwhelming number of objections brought up by Clive14 and the later objections by DE , I did not represent the Intelligent Design position as well as I could have , had I spent more time and thought on the debate . Therefore , I am offering in this thread a complete rebuttal of the objections to irreducible complexity that has been brought forth by DamEtel . If DamEtel wishes to do a formal debate on the subject , I am willing . So , here goes & # 8230 ;""","""You lost this debate Skeptic , why drag it back up again ? There are plenty of other subjects that we could debate instead . Pick one of them and let 's debate again . Alternatively , how about a formal debate on ID in which you never once mention Behe ? That 'll be a completely different one and worth considering .""",DISAGREE,"""If DamEtel wishes to do a formal debate on the subject , I am willing .""","""You lost this debate Skeptic , why drag it back up again ?""",,
8949,2366,"""Rubbish , there are many that argue otherwise . The life of twins can be viewed as starting at the moment the zygote/ embryo splits for example . The reality though is there is no single point at which a human life begins : the moment the egg and sperm form , the moment of conception , first division and implantation , the moment the heart starts to beat , the moment of birth etc all mark stages in the formation of a new life .""","""oh yeah rubbish rubbish , scientifically speaking , human life ( using a most bsic term ) begins at conception . the twins exist as two seperate entities the moment each contains the individual human dna . seems to me you better be certain when it begins before you go around ending it . if you are driving at night an you `` think `` you might see a person ahead in the middle of the road you are hopefully not gon na drive over that person . Instead that uncertainty should lead you to stop . If you dont like that example , consider a hunter who is unsure what is in the bushes .""",DISAGREE,"""The life of twins can be viewed as starting at the moment the zygote/ embryo splits""","""the individual human dna . seems to me you better be certain when it begins before you go around ending""",,
8964,2374,"""But of course , the real issue is whether or not changing marriage is a civil right to begin with , because these ballot initiatives are generally about whether marriage should be protected from being redefined .""","""Oh my stars and garters . He actually admitted what `` the real issue `` is .""",AGREE,"""whether or not changing marriage is a civil right to begin with""","""actually admitted what `` the real issue `` is""",,
9002,2386,"""Mother Says D.C. Police Shot , Injured Boy Holding Toy Gun|ABC 7 News L.A. Police Shoot Boy Carrying Toy Handgun Boy with toy gun fatally shot by West Memphis police The Commercial Appeal Orlando Sentinel - Boy had realistic toy gun at Milwee Middle""","""Do you see the other cities pushing for outrageous standards like NYC ?""",AGREE,"""Police Shot , Injured Boy Holding Toy Gun|ABC 7 News L.A. Police Shoot""","""other cities pushing for outrageous standards like NYC""",,
9005,2388,"""@ kronus Imagine you are shown god exists and did create the universe `` genesis stlye `` . How would it change YOUR behaviour ? Would it change YOUR ethics ?""","""An excellent question . I 've always felt I 've led a good life . My philosophy has been that if A ) God wants some specific behavior from us and B ) He ca n't make it clear what it is , then to heck with him . I lead a good life and if that is n't good enough than phooey . That would n't be a God I 'd want to worship anyway . You understand of course that I do n't except the mere existence of a book as God making his desires clear . Now all of a sudden we know that the Bible is in fact God telling us what he wants . The problem then becomes deciphering it . The Bible is not as cut and dried as some would like . God seems to undergo a radical personality shift between the OT and the NT , from a God of smiting to a God of love and tolerance . Which part are we to listen to ? Do Paul 's letters carry the same weight as the Gospel ? I 'd have alot of questions . I guess how much I 'd change my life depends on how forthcoming God is . Is the only thing we 've learned what you 've spelled out ? God exists , Genesis is correct ? If that 's all we 've got , than I 'd still be forced to judge God based on my own ethical standards , same as before . The mere fact that a God exists does not , in my opinion , mean He is worthy of worship or following . God does alot of stuff in the OT that seems unjustifiable to be , and I 'm not willing to let things slide just becuase someone claims ineffability . So I guess I would still lead my life as best as I could , according to the standards I 've developed . At least , that would be my intention . Knowing that God was in fact watching and judging me might , for example , put a damper on my support of gay rights . I 'd feel like a coward , but it could happen . On the other hand , if God was willing to do a Q & amp ; A session and fill me in on a few things , and clarify a few points , then it 's entierly possible that I might change my lifestyle . I really have n't written up my interview with God , so I 'm not sure what I would ask or how the answers might change me , but I 've got to assume that if I could chat with God , something about me would change .""",AGREE,"""@ kronus Imagine you are shown god exists and did create the universe `` genesis stlye `` . How would it change YOUR behaviour ? Would it change YOUR ethics""","""An excellent question . I 've always felt I 've led a good life . My philosophy has been that if A ) God wants some specific behavior from us and B ) He ca n't make it clear what it is , then to heck with him . I lead a good life and if that is n't good enough than phooey . That would n't be a God I 'd want to worship anyway . You understand of course that I do n't except the mere existence of a book as God making his desires clear . Now all of a sudden we know that the Bible is in fact God telling us what he wants . The problem then becomes deciphering it . The Bible is not as cut and dried as some would like""",,
9031,2404,"""But this fact of degeneration is quite lethal to evolutionists . Not only does it make their wild ideas for the origin/evolution of life improbable – it makes them IMPOSSIBLE .""","""Well , the degeneration point is weak , and you should know that the `` origin `` angle is also quite weak .""",DISAGREE,"""But this fact of degeneration is quite lethal to evolutionists . Not only does it make their wild ideas for the origin/evolution of life improbable""","""Well , the degeneration point is weak , and you should know that the `` origin `` angle is also quite weak .""",,
9032,2405,"""Except for the fact that guns were around long before Browning was ever born . Browning did n't invent the gun , he just made some of the finest models ever to exist .""","""No one said he invented guns ! A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent 's position . [ 1 ] To `` attack a straw man `` is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition ( the `` straw man `` ) , and refuting it , without ever having actually refuted the original position . [ 1 ] [ 2 ]""",DISAGREE,"""Browning did n't invent the gun""","""a straw man `` is to create""",,
9041,2409,"""If you have two large male deer butting heads against each other , you might think ... the strongest will win , and pass on his genes . However , sometimes the deer 's horns inter-lock and if they ca n't separate they die . So , a cowardly weak deer that stood by on the side-lines would be able to mate . Survival of the cowardly and weak comes into play .""","""Well , since you used the word `` sometimes `` I assume you realize that this is n't the case all the time . Sometimes the stronger deer actually does win . So what is your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you have two large male deer butting heads against each other , you might think ... the strongest will win , and pass on his genes . However , sometimes the deer 's horns inter-lock and if they ca n't separate they die . So , a cowardly weak deer that stood by on the side-lines would be able to mate . Survival of the cowardly and weak comes into play .""","""Well , since you used the word `` sometimes `` I assume you realize that this is n't the case all the time . Sometimes the stronger deer actually does win . So what is your point ?""",,
9050,2414,"""I grew up attending several different churches ranging from baptist , nazarene , apostolic , pentacostal , and Assembly of God .""","""I see . So you seem to be having some difficulty in deciding which religion is actually correct . Perhaps none is , since all that you mention are relatively recent inventions of men . Mr. Kent Hovind is scientifically illiterate and just counts on duping the uneducated . With just a little effort it is possible to learn that Mr. Hovind proposes pseudoscience . Even Answers in Genesis has criticized the points that you find so convincing . I suspect that you too , are scientifically illiterate and lack the knowledge to dicern where he is feeding you a line of crud . Really , it 's not hard to figure out if you have the integrity to look for the real facts . If Hovind is correct , then every scientist in the world , even the Christians , are menbers of a vast conspiracy to deceive you . The very idea is simple minded . Hopefully you will grow up some day .""",DISAGREE,"""different churches ranging from baptist , nazarene , apostolic , pentacostal , and Assembly of God .""","""Even Answers in Genesis has criticized the points that you find so convincing . I suspect that you too , are scientifically""",,
9053,2415,"""Wow . A very unusual and distressing story , and probably why saline abortions are no longer used . It is very unfortunate for her to have to live with that disability .""","""What disability ? The fact that she survived a murderous attempt on her life ?""",DISAGREE,"""Wow . A very unusual and distressing story , and probably why saline abortions are no longer used . It is very unfortunate for her to have to live with that disability .""","""What disability ? The fact that she survived a murderous attempt on her life ?""",,
9055,2416,"""Sorry , sometimes sarcasm is quite hard to read .""","""According to Montalban , he doesn & # 8217 ; t use sarcasm and quite often bitterly complains when I use it . Opps , maybe he made a mistake and is trying to cover it up . LOL""",AGREE,"""sometimes sarcasm is quite hard""","""he doesn t use sarcasm""",,
9056,2416,"""Sorry , sometimes sarcasm is quite hard to read .""","""According to Montalban , he doesn & # 8217 ; t use sarcasm and quite often bitterly complains when I use it . Opps , maybe he made a mistake and is trying to cover it up . LOL""",AGREE,"""Sorry , sometimes sarcasm is quite hard to read .""","""Opps , maybe he made a mistake and is trying to cover it up .""",,
9067,2420,"""then surely you ca n't explain away why enzyme a and co-enzyme b are separate compounds but work together to produce another by-product .""","""Well , in the case above , it was step-by-step . First , an existing enzyme was modified to a new use , and over time , became refined to work better and better . This is the way evolution works . Nothing is de novo ; it 's always a modfication of something else . Second , a mutation produced a regulator that only allowed the enzyme to be produced if the substrate was available . Again , this was refined by natural selection over time . In the end , the newly-evolved system was irreducibly complex , because all three parts have to be present for the system to work . And do show us your numbers proving that such processes ca n't produce new information . If you do n't know how , I 'd be pleased to show you how a mutation changes the information in a population .""",DISAGREE,"""then surely you ca n't explain away why enzyme a and co-enzyme b are separate compounds""","""If you do n't know how , I 'd be pleased to show you how a mutation changes the information in a population .""",,
9099,2429,"""Well , considering that quote comes from somebody whose throat I would just as soon slit as have come within ten feet of my child , it means nothing .""","""...""",DISAGREE,"""considering that comes from somebody whose throat I would just as soon slit as have come within ten feet of my child""","""...""",,
9102,2430,"""Since then it has become the holy grail of the scientific community in explaining how Time and Space began .""","""Holy grail implies it is like a religion , which it is not . If evidence is found that overturns this theory , it will be discarded in favour of a better one .""",DISAGREE,"""Since then it has become the holy grail of the scientific community""","""Holy grail implies it is like a religion , which it is not""",,
9106,2432,"""she violated his rights the 5th says you cant be deprived of life without due process of law well he was deprived of his life and he didnt get his day in court""","""Actually you 're wrong . Actually you 're very , very wrong . The 5th Amendment , and all the other amendments in the Bill of Rights , only provide protections against government interference , not interference from your neighbors and people who do n't have governmental jobs . But just for the sake of argument , if you want to argue how the man 's rights were violated , how about we discuss the rights of the woman ? Does n't she have a right to not be raped ? Does n't she have a right to be secure in her own home against forced invasion ?""",DISAGREE,"""she violated his rights""","""Actually you 're wrong .""",,
9138,2442,"""or b . ) they can start a dialog and have consideration as to the reasons why the country is so concerned about this issue .""","""No problem . Let 's start that dialog now . What are the logical reasons for banning gay marriage ?""",DISAGREE,"""is so concerned about this issue .""","""What are the logical reasons""",,
9161,2450,"""How do you know there is n't a tiger in the bathroom ? You feel very strongly and have over-whelming evidence that there is no tiger in your bathroom ? ( You live in an urban area , there are no zoos , you do n't hear scratching or biting or the maiming of your poodle , and the water is going )""","""If you bothered to consider all of the unlikely possibilities of things that could be in various places in your house ( or all the possible explanations for the origin of the universe ) rather than just the most likely ones , you would be considering new ones for the rest of your life .""",DISAGREE,"""How do you know there is n't a tiger in the bathroom ?""","""rather than just the most likely ones , you would be considering new ones for the rest of your life .""",,
9165,2451,"""Having troubles getting past step one Simone ? You just got ta try harder to want a God in your life . I know that it 's more useless than tits on a man but hon , you got ta open your mind and heart up to the uber-natural farces that permiate the other semi-non-existing planes of being . And if yer still having troubles wanting to believe , you can send me some money . It seems to help people want to believe if they 've paid good , hard earned money for it . Something about not wanting to see your investment go to waste ... or was it not wanting to be proven to be a fool who fell for a scam ... But , psychologically putting money on it seems to help you believe .""","""You have hit on something . But Christ said give all your money away and follow him , but not many believers obey this commandment . Most Christians are very interested in making more and more money . Capitalism and christianity are incompatible .""",DISAGREE,"""you can send me some money . It seems to help people want to believe if they 've paid good , hard earned money for it .""","""But Christ said give all your money away and follow him , but not many believers obey this commandment .""",,
9173,2452,""" “ In the 1960s the base of the Cambrian was determined to be 570 million years old , and this date appears on age compilations even in the late 1980s . Recently , however , there have been significant improvements in radiometric dating techniques . The Precambrian/Cambrian boundary is now dated at 543 million years old . The  “ Middle ” Cambrian is dated at about 510 million years ago , whereas the oldest trilobites are no more than 522 million years old , which suggests that the bulk of Cambrian time was  “ pre-trilobite ”  ” . ( Rare Earth : Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe , Peter D. Ward & amp ; Donald Brownlee , Copernicus/Springer-Verlag , 2000 , p130 – 131 )""","""2 ) Even if we accept the statement `` Nearly all animal phyla * made their first appearance [ about 543 - 525 million years ago ] `` ( note the * ... wonder what that material says ) , it still does n't address the appearance of the vast majority of species , or of higher taxa like genera and classes . Why are there no robins , eagles , vultures , chickens , emus , frogs , turtles , lizards , alligators , sharks , carp , perch , dolphins , whales , seals , foxes , rabbits , cats , dogs , deer , antelope , zebra , horses , kangaroos , elephants , bats , monkeys , chimps , humans , and so on in the Burgess Shale or other Cambrian strata ? Evolution has a perfectly reasonable , and supported , explanation . But if God created all animals on `` day x `` , then we should expect to find all types of animals - elephants & amp ; humans & amp ; mice , trilobites , and dinosaurs of all various sizes and mobilities , for example - all mixed in the same strata ... but we do n't . ( PS : And `` flood sorting `` does n't resolve this problem with the religious , Creationist position ) . 3 ) The Cambrian `` explosion `` was not really a sudden explosion , but more of a extended event . A recent article ( The Early Evolution of Animals , David J Bottjer , Scientific American , August 2005 ) describes a bilaterian - a bilaterally symmetrical animal - found in strata that is dated to between 580 million and 600 million years old . That 's roughly 45 to 50 million years prior to the beginning of the Cambrian explosion . And the author adds ...""",DISAGREE,"""In the 1960s the base of the Cambrian was determined to be 570 million years old , and this date appears on age compilations even in the late 1980s .""","""it still does n't address the appearance of the vast majority of species , or of higher taxa like genera and classes .""",,
9189,2456,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe . Because this is irrational , the entire concept of creation is irrational to `` believe `` in . You can believe in it , but you must accept that the belief is not a rational belief .""","""Firstly , we take the actual events of creation and the existence of God by faith - because we were not there to observe the events happening . Similarly , evolutionists must also take the supposed progression of life from simple to complex by faith , as we were not there to observe the events happening and they certainly can not be repeated today . If someone gives you an eye witness account of an event that happened before your time and all the evidence that you have collected does not contradict that account , is it no logical and rational to believe that eye witness ' account ? In a similar way , we have the Word of our Creator who does n't lie and who was there in the beginning . The actual physical evidence fits nicely with what we would expect if the Bible is right , e.g . fossils , mutations , the fact that there are billions of sea things burried in massive `` underwater graves `` all over the Earth - some while still eating or giving birth ( i.e . had to be rapid ) . So if the evidence that we have collected does not contradict what His eye witness account says ( i.e . Genesis ) than , is it not logical and rational to believe it to be true ? In fact , it would be illogical and irrational to not believe it !""",DISAGREE,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe . Because this is irrational , the entire concept of creation is irrational to `` believe `` in .""","""Firstly , we take the actual events of creation and the existence of God by faith - because we were not there to observe the events happening . ``""",,
9192,2456,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe . Because this is irrational , the entire concept of creation is irrational to `` believe `` in . You can believe in it , but you must accept that the belief is not a rational belief .""","""Firstly , we take the actual events of creation and the existence of God by faith - because we were not there to observe the events happening . Similarly , evolutionists must also take the supposed progression of life from simple to complex by faith , as we were not there to observe the events happening and they certainly can not be repeated today . If someone gives you an eye witness account of an event that happened before your time and all the evidence that you have collected does not contradict that account , is it no logical and rational to believe that eye witness ' account ? In a similar way , we have the Word of our Creator who does n't lie and who was there in the beginning . The actual physical evidence fits nicely with what we would expect if the Bible is right , e.g . fossils , mutations , the fact that there are billions of sea things burried in massive `` underwater graves `` all over the Earth - some while still eating or giving birth ( i.e . had to be rapid ) . So if the evidence that we have collected does not contradict what His eye witness account says ( i.e . Genesis ) than , is it not logical and rational to believe it to be true ? In fact , it would be illogical and irrational to not believe it !""",DISAGREE,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""Similarly , evolutionists must also take the supposed progression of life from simple to complex by faith , as we were not there to observe the events happening and they certainly can not be repeated today""",,
9194,2457,"""U.N. vs . Guns : An international gun-control fight . By John R. Lott Jr . The U.S. government often makes American gun owners feel besieged . For example , over the last decade it is simply impossible to find one study by either the U.S. Justice Department or the Treasury that measures the benefits from people owning guns . While this has been done by both Democratic and Republican administrations , the Clinton administration surely set new standards for misleading attacks on gun ownership with its studies and public-service ads .""","""So how would you make a study that shows the benefits of gun ownership ? I don´t think there is any way to do this .""",AGREE,"""The U.S. government often makes American gun owners feel besieged .""","""how would you make a study that shows the benefits of gun ownership ?""",,
9208,2459,"""I tend to prefer `` fair-weather `` pregnancies myself ! Seriously though , you ca n't separate those two issues . A woman 's `` right `` to choose does n't need to be argued in a vacuum , apart from the moral and societal implications . And I would argue that the real root issue IS the moral one . The original post was asking about wether pro-chiocers feel that ANY pregnanices should continue . The answer is of course we do . Demonizing us dose not make you look better just bitter . Wow , I think this is the first time I 've ever heard anyone claim that the pro-choice movement is for the sake of the child . Sorry , you are n't even close . I do n't know a pro-choicer period that would say it 's for anything other than the sake of the woman .""","""[ b ] [ b ] You have not had many REAL conversations with pro-choicers then . The Planned Parenthood Motto is `` EVERY CHILD A WANTED CHILD . '""",DISAGREE,"""I tend to prefer `` fair-weather `` pregnancies myself ! Seriously though , you ca n't separate those two issues .""","""You have not had many REAL conversations with pro-choicers then .""",,
9222,2461,""" ‘ Creationists believe in microevolution but not macroevolution. ’ These terms , which focus on  ‘ small ’ v.  ‘ large ’ changes , distract from the key issue of information . That is , particles-to-people evolution requires changes that increase genetic information , but all we observe is sorting and loss of information . We have yet to see even a  ‘ micro ’ increase in information , although such changes should be frequent if evolution were true . Conversely , we do observe quite  ‘ macro ’ changes that involve no new information , e.g . when a control gene is switched on or off .""","""AH ! the old `` information `` gambit . It only shows that anyone who uses this does n't no what they are talking about . Take a biology/genetics class and you 'd realize how stupid this sounds . Thank you for finding this page ! ! !""",DISAGREE,""" ‘ Creationists believe in microevolution but not .""","""Thank you for finding this page ! ! !""",,
9228,2462,"""in the same way God can not create a round square .""","""God can do whatever He wants . Although one can say `` God does not `` or `` God is not `` , a thiest believeing in and worshipping the God of Abraham and Joachim I do not think should ever say `` God can not `` anything .... With God , all things and everything is possible . Sentiments such as those expressed above in my view seem to be evident in Western Christianity where it seems believers are too often trying to bring God down to our level , imposing limits etc .""",DISAGREE,"""the same way God can not create a round square""","""With God , all things and everything is possible""",,
9226,2462,"""in the same way God can not create a round square .""","""God can do whatever He wants . Although one can say `` God does not `` or `` God is not `` , a thiest believeing in and worshipping the God of Abraham and Joachim I do not think should ever say `` God can not `` anything .... With God , all things and everything is possible . Sentiments such as those expressed above in my view seem to be evident in Western Christianity where it seems believers are too often trying to bring God down to our level , imposing limits etc .""",DISAGREE,"""in the same way God can not create a round square .""","""God can do whatever He wants .""",,
9245,2465,"""Well , there you go . The fact he , in his reverse analogy , portrays mere disagreement in many cases as telling `` posters there how disgusting and sinful they are and how their rights should be denied `` only makes my point . No once do I recall seeing anyone here saying that he or anyone else was `` disgusting , `` and `` sinful. `` Apparently he 's not too familiar with the concept of ad hominem either .""","""Are you sure about that ? Do you know who mai'ana is ?""",DISAGREE,"""No once do I recall seeing anyone here saying that he or anyone else was `` disgusting , `` and `` sinful. `` Apparently he 's not too familiar with the concept of ad hominem either .""","""Do you know who mai'ana is""",,
9264,2468,"""http : //rt.com/Top_News/2010-05-27/fi ... html ? fullstory""","""After what the Fins been through , fighting the mother country , the Soviet Union under Lenin and then Russia and Germany and finally Germany , I doubt they are going to let their own government take away their guns ? ? Most folks have learned to leave those Finns alone .""",DISAGREE,"""html ? fullstory""","""Most folks have learned to leave those Finns alone""",,
9271,2470,"""Poor child , is your only response to evidence you ca n't refute always going to be to start new baiting and complaining threads like this one , so you can attack creationists from a different direction without responding to the evidence that you ca n't answer ?""","""And what sort of evidence have you put forth that we ca n't refute ? Do we need to recite your long list of hoaxes ?""",DISAGREE,"""different direction without responding to the evidence that you ca n't answer ?""","""? Do we need""",,
9280,2471,"""You do n't like it that I disagree with you ,""","""* * Utterly untrue . I like it a lot , and for several reasons . I come to such debating rooms as this bb in order to debate . That means , a/finding someone with opinions that conflict with my own , and b/finding an opponent who can debate like a mature adult , relying on facts and logic to present his/her case . Finding opponents , a/ , who will defend darwinism with all the fervor of ideological zealots and fanatics is easy -- they make up 99 % of all darwinists who post to internet debating forums . Engaging darwinists who fulfill the conditions of b/ is next to impossible . Many start out rationally and with their emotions under control , but very rapidly become no different from the common herd after they 've had their assumptions and dogma shot down more than once . They very quickly become 'froth at the mouth ' trolls who think that insult and personal attack constitutes legitimate debate . Such people are nothing more , intellectually speaking , than a pain in the XXX , and need to be ignored as much as is possible . You , almost entirely alone , have , to this point , resisted the temptation to turn into an irrational , splenetic , pin in the XXX , as are the ovwerwhelming majority of this board 's regulars . However , if you are about to 'go over to the dark side ' with the rest of them , that 's up to you . I 'll miss debating you .""",DISAGREE,"""You do n't like it that I disagree with you ,""","""Utterly untrue . I like it a lot , and for several reasons . I come to such debating rooms as this bb in order to debate . That means , a/finding someone with opinions that conflict with my own , and b/finding an opponent who can debate like a mature adult , relying on facts and logic to present his/her Finding opponents , a/ , who will defend darwinism with all the fervor of ideological zealots and fanatics is easy -- they make up 99 % of all darwinists who post to internet debating forums . Engaging darwinists who fulfill the conditions of b/ is next to Many start out rationally and with their emotions under control , but very rapidly become no different from the common herd after they 've had their assumptions and dogma shot down more than They very quickly become 'froth at the mouth ' trolls who think that insult and personal attack constitutes legitimate debate . Such people are nothing more , intellectually speaking , than a pain in the XXX , and need to be ignored as much as is You , almost entirely alone , have , to this point , resisted the temptation to turn into an irrational , splenetic , pin in the XXX , as are the ovwerwhelming majority of this board 's regulars . However , if you are about to 'go over to the dark side ' with the rest of them , that 's up to you . I 'll miss debating you .""",,
9284,2472,"""Did anyone else expect anything less ? These evil fundie christianists can have affairs , 2 , 3 , 4 , or even 5 marriages yet gay people are a threat to marriage by wanting to get married .""","""Where 'd you get the idea that Vitter was a Fundamental Christian ? He 's a Roman Catholic , just like Ted Kennedy . Does that make Ted a fundie , too ?""",DISAGREE,"""These evil fundie christianists can have affairs , 2 , 3 , 4 , or even 5 marriages yet gay people""","""He 's a Roman Catholic , just like Ted Kennedy""",,
9297,2474,"""BREAKING NEWS George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church""","""George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church | News Updates | Wichita Eagle""",AGREE,"""George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church""","""George Tiller shot to death at Wichita church""",,
9309,2477,"""`` It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners , `` Kramer wrote . The judge wrote that the state 's historical definition of marriage , by itself , can not justify the denial of equal protection for gays and lesbians .""","""And it takes this long for the obvious to be said ... http : //story.news.yahoo.com/news ? tmp ... s/gay_marriage""",AGREE,"""It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners , `` Kramer wrote""","""And it takes this long for the obvious to be said ...""",,
9334,2482,"""That website is pretty much bogus . A fetus does not even have lungs in the sense we know them until it takes its first breath of air . I do n't know about the 50 % stat ... the earliest it can possibly survive is about the 24 week mark , so that sounds overblown . The eyelids are fused at the 18 week point and do n't open until 28 weeks There is little evidence that a fetus can `` feel `` pain . Regular wakefulness and sleep patterns , as well as continuous brain waves appear around 28 weeks , which is an indication of conciousness . Conciousness would be a requirement to experience pain . Since 24 weeks is the start of the 3rd trimester , and 80-90 % of abortions occur before this point ( I 've hear 96 % as well ) , pain really is n't a problem for abortions . The fetus has never achieved conciousness , let alone has known anything .""","""So you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed ? That b/c it has n't achieved consciousness you should kill it ?""",DISAGREE,"""Since 24 weeks is the start of the 3rd trimester , and 80-90 % of abortions occur before this point""","""you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed""",,
9333,2482,"""That website is pretty much bogus . A fetus does not even have lungs in the sense we know them until it takes its first breath of air . I do n't know about the 50 % stat ... the earliest it can possibly survive is about the 24 week mark , so that sounds overblown . The eyelids are fused at the 18 week point and do n't open until 28 weeks There is little evidence that a fetus can `` feel `` pain . Regular wakefulness and sleep patterns , as well as continuous brain waves appear around 28 weeks , which is an indication of conciousness . Conciousness would be a requirement to experience pain . Since 24 weeks is the start of the 3rd trimester , and 80-90 % of abortions occur before this point ( I 've hear 96 % as well ) , pain really is n't a problem for abortions . The fetus has never achieved conciousness , let alone has known anything .""","""So you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed ? That b/c it has n't achieved consciousness you should kill it ?""",DISAGREE,"""That website is pretty much bogus . A fetus does not even have lungs in the sense we know them until it takes its first breath of air .""","""So you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed ?""",,
9357,2487,"""Sometimes the law is an XXX , and juries are dumber than you might expect . In general terms , the law should encourage people finding a firearm to call the police . It 's generally not a good idea to be walking the streets taking them to the police . What should have happened in this case ( assuming all is as it seems ) was that the case should have been dropped as a prosecution was not in the public interest , and similarly the jury should have told them where to stick it , as they have in other cases where the law as written has produced an unjust result ( as it happens the law itself is not usually at fault , just that the particular situation has not been envisaged ) . I just hope a pardon is issued for the unfortunate victim of this .""","""No what should 've happened was Mr. Clarke not being arrested at all , over a matter of a technicality . With the UK always offering so many `` gun amnesties `` , always telling criminals that they can turn in their illegally possessed guns and there will be no move to prosecute them , you 'd think the officials would extend the same courtesy to honest citizens , that they do to violent criminals .""",DISAGREE,"""What should have happened in this case ( assuming all is as it seems ) was that the case should have been dropped as a prosecution was not in the public interest ,""","""No what should 've happened was Mr. Clarke not being arrested at all , over a matter of a technicality .""",,
9360,2488,"""Afterwards , due to a diet of breads , deserts , cooked foods , sweets and toxicity , humans have been degenerating ever since . There is no way to stop this . Our species is dying . Information is weakingÂ….genomes are decaying . If it were not for the internal mechanisms we have in our bodies for controlling the frequency of mutations , extinction of the human race would come quickly .""","""More assertions . Look at the `` helpful mutations `` link .""",DISAGREE,"""due to a diet of breads , deserts , cooked foods , sweets and toxicity , humans have been degenerating ever since .""","""More assertions . Look at the `` helpful mutations `` link .""",,
9363,2488,"""Afterwards , due to a diet of breads , deserts , cooked foods , sweets and toxicity , humans have been degenerating ever since . There is no way to stop this . Our species is dying . Information is weakingÂ….genomes are decaying . If it were not for the internal mechanisms we have in our bodies for controlling the frequency of mutations , extinction of the human race would come quickly .""","""More assertions . Look at the `` helpful mutations `` link .""",DISAGREE,"""There is no way to stop this . Our species is dying . Information is weakingÂ….genomes are decaying . If it were not for the internal mechanisms we have in our bodies for controlling the frequency of mutations , extinction of the human race would come quickly .""","""More assertions . Look at the `` helpful mutations `` link .""",,
9380,2491,"""Both are matters of faith . To believe that there is no logic in seeing the evidence that way is saying Darwin , Crick and Gould were not logical . They choose to believe in evolution but they all saw the overwhelming evidence for design .""","""i like this . lets assume that both are mattes of faith , in that there is the unknown element in both cases ( which there is ) . the only thing left is which fits reality best the evidence that supports creation is a book written by some middle-east religiously biased men about 4000 years ago . nothing in this book can be replicated or observed , and they defy observable reality the evidence that supprts the theory of evolution is the observed reality that dna mutates , species that adapt to their environment survive , fossils exist , several aging mechanisms date the planet in the billions of years , and life forms in the millions , and so on . so , do we believe our own eyes , or what a very very old dtory tells us we should believe . thats what it really comes down to , all other things being equal""",DISAGREE,"""Both are matters of faith . To believe that there is no logic in seeing the evidence that way is saying Darwin , Crick and Gould were not logical .""","""lets assume that both are mattes of faith , in that there is the unknown element in both cases""",,
9379,2491,"""Both are matters of faith . To believe that there is no logic in seeing the evidence that way is saying Darwin , Crick and Gould were not logical . They choose to believe in evolution but they all saw the overwhelming evidence for design .""","""i like this . lets assume that both are mattes of faith , in that there is the unknown element in both cases ( which there is ) . the only thing left is which fits reality best the evidence that supports creation is a book written by some middle-east religiously biased men about 4000 years ago . nothing in this book can be replicated or observed , and they defy observable reality the evidence that supprts the theory of evolution is the observed reality that dna mutates , species that adapt to their environment survive , fossils exist , several aging mechanisms date the planet in the billions of years , and life forms in the millions , and so on . so , do we believe our own eyes , or what a very very old dtory tells us we should believe . thats what it really comes down to , all other things being equal""",DISAGREE,"""Both are matters of faith .""","""i like this . lets assume that both are mattes of faith , in that there is the unknown element in both cases""",,
9424,2510,"""No church has to marry any couple if they do not wish to do so .""","""But apparently they ca n't say no to renting the property for a gay wedding , even if they decide to just say 'no ' to everyone and get out of business . go figure""",DISAGREE,"""No church has to marry any couple""","""they ca n't say no to renting the property for a gay wedding""",,
9427,2512,"""No . It steps firmly in the realm of REALITY Jyoshu . Have you never heard people talk about how police in an area respond in X amount of time for one situation , but for a different situation , like in a neighborhood predominantly black or gay or ___ , the response time is four times as long ? Have you never heard of how there have been cases where people have died because they tried to get medical help at the `` white `` hospital ? Or how about you read about THIS case and tell me that these concerns are n't real ...""","""And people are punished for that , and their service record is going to make clear they did it . I feel that if someone has a service record that gives no indication he or she would discriminate , there is no reason they should be asked questions about their ideological views .""",DISAGREE,"""but for a different situation , like in a neighborhood predominantly black or gay or ___ , the response time is four times as long ?""","""And people are punished for that""",,
9445,2528,"""[ the revolt ] ended when the poorly-armed and supplied resistance was crushed by the German troops ... Approximately 13,000 Jewish residents were killed during the uprising ( some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation ) . Of the remaining 50,000 inhabitants , most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps , in particular to Treblinka . ... According to the Stroop 's report , his forces suffered 16 killed in action and 86 wounded ( these figures included over 60 members of Waffen-SS , and did not include the Jewish collaborators ) . The real number of German losses , however , may be well higher if unknown . For the propaganda purposes , official German casualties were claimed to be only few wounded and none killed , while the Polish underground bulletins claimed that hundreds of Nazis died in the fighting .""","""Even if 'hundreds of Nazis ' died , the outcome of the Uprising was a complete victory for the German armed forces .""",AGREE,"""Jewish residents were killed during the uprising , official German casualties were claimed to be only few wounded and none killed Polish underground bulletins claimed that hundreds of Nazis died in the fighting .""","""Even if 'hundreds of Nazis ' died , the outcome of the Uprising was a complete victory for the German armed forces""",,
9452,2530,"""Doubtful . Term pregnancies more often than not result in both mother and child doing well . Amazing what medical technology can do , eh ? Now , For those figures , go to www.abortionfacts.com . You 'll find the stats concerning both physical and psychological effects of abortion . Specifically : increased infertility . increased risk of cancer , increased risk of hemmoraging from botched abortions , depression , suicide , post-abortion trauma syndrome , need I go on ?""","""Yes , we have already established that abortionfacts.com is a pro-life page and as such is far from impartial . You talk about `` increased risk of cancer , increased risk of hemmoraging from botched abortions , depression , suicide , post-abortion trauma syndrome `` but these are measured against women who are not pregnant . While an abortion ( like any medical proceedure ) carries risks , these are far smaller than those posed by a woman who sees a pregnancy to term and gives birth . In case you forgot , here are the figures I quoted you before : http : //www.acog.org/from_home/public ... v103n4p729.pdf Which shows an abortion will cause 0.3 deaths per 100,000 carried out in the USA in 1995. http : //www.childinfo.org/eddb/mat_mortal/ Which shows a term pregnancy poses a 1 in 4085 risk of death over a womans lifetime in industrialised nations in 1995 . You do the math- how many abortions does a woman need to have before she is as at much risk as that posed by taking pregnacies to term over her lifetime ? Something like 80 , which gives a good indication of the relative risk ......""",DISAGREE,"""go to www.abortionfacts.com stats concerning both physical and psychological effects of abortion increased infertility . increased risk of cancer , increased risk of hemmoraging from botched abortions""","""abortionfacts.com is a pro-life page and as such is far from impartial `` these are measured against women who are not pregnant . an abortion ( like any medical proceedure ) carries risks , these are far smaller than those posed by a woman who sees a pregnancy to term""",,
9475,2535,"""Thats an easy one . The obvious and correct answer is a resounding no . It has had no effect on the criminal use of guns and no thinking person would have predicted that it would . It would be like reducing the number of scalple salesman in an effort to reduce botched surgeries .""","""But would n't it make it more likely that a gun dealer that was involved in gun trafficking would be audited and caught by the ATF ? If there are less FFLs then the ATF has more time to monitor and inspect each gun dealer .""",DISAGREE,"""It has had no effect on the criminal use of guns It would be like reducing the number of scalple salesman""","""would n't it make it more likely that a gun dealer involved in gun trafficking would be audited""",,
9480,2536,"""Well lets speculate about how many possible explanations we could concoct if left to supposition . I 'm talking about the only two explanations for the origins of life that have ever been entertained as viable empirically testable concepts in modern science .""","""God is not a testable , valid theory for being and origin . It fails the falisfiablily AND verificationism criteria -- quite badly . It 's also highly subjective . Creationism is n't even a peer reviewed , promulgated theory in any credible community . It would n't , and does n't , last 5 minutes against logic or science . Creationism = continual propagation of the same cut-paste arguments which have been refuted day in and day out , but not heeded . Creationism IS N'T a powerful force -- it 's fraudulant repetition .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm talking about the only two explanations for the origins of life that have ever been entertained as viable empirically testable concepts in modern science .""","""God is not a testable , valid theory for being and origin . It fails the falisfiablily AND verificationism criteria -- quite badly .""",,
9479,2536,"""Well lets speculate about how many possible explanations we could concoct if left to supposition . I 'm talking about the only two explanations for the origins of life that have ever been entertained as viable empirically testable concepts in modern science .""","""God is not a testable , valid theory for being and origin . It fails the falisfiablily AND verificationism criteria -- quite badly . It 's also highly subjective . Creationism is n't even a peer reviewed , promulgated theory in any credible community . It would n't , and does n't , last 5 minutes against logic or science . Creationism = continual propagation of the same cut-paste arguments which have been refuted day in and day out , but not heeded . Creationism IS N'T a powerful force -- it 's fraudulant repetition .""",DISAGREE,"""speculate about how many possible explanations we could concoct if left to supposition . entertained as viable empirically testable concepts in modern science .""","""God is not a testable , valid theory for being and origin . Creationism = continual propagation of the same cut-paste arguments which have been refuted day in and day""",,
9478,2536,"""Well lets speculate about how many possible explanations we could concoct if left to supposition . I 'm talking about the only two explanations for the origins of life that have ever been entertained as viable empirically testable concepts in modern science .""","""God is not a testable , valid theory for being and origin . It fails the falisfiablily AND verificationism criteria -- quite badly . It 's also highly subjective . Creationism is n't even a peer reviewed , promulgated theory in any credible community . It would n't , and does n't , last 5 minutes against logic or science . Creationism = continual propagation of the same cut-paste arguments which have been refuted day in and day out , but not heeded . Creationism IS N'T a powerful force -- it 's fraudulant repetition .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm talking about the only two explanations for the origins of life""","""Creationism IS N'T a powerful force -- it 's fraudulant repetition .""",,
9483,2537,"""For bringing health care to women without the means ? For providing Pap Smears , Mammograms , and birth control for women without the means ? Providiing pre-natal , and post-natal care ? Oh , heck , let the women die of breast cancer and uterine cancer ! Why not ; bash Gays , then you bash the women .""","""You forgot one . For trying to bring eugenics to the US . We would n't want those `` poor negros `` reproducing now would we ?""",DISAGREE,"""Mammograms , and birth control for women without the means ? Providiing pre-natal , and post-natal care ?""","""We would n't want those `` poor negros `` reproducing now would we ?""",,
9496,2539,"""While I am not a huge fan of polls , one of the positions often held by those of us on the pro gun side of the debate is that those in favor of stricter firearms law , are not familiar with firearms or current firearms law . I would be interested to know what level of knowledge is possessed by both sides of the argument . Please be honest . Justin""","""Just to contribute , I 'm pro-gun , have had training in the proper use and laws in my area , and have owned weapons for more than 30 years .""",DISAGREE,"""I would be interested to know what level of knowledge is possessed""","""laws in my area , and have owned weapons for more than 30 years .""",,
9493,2539,"""While I am not a huge fan of polls , one of the positions often held by those of us on the pro gun side of the debate is that those in favor of stricter firearms law , are not familiar with firearms or current firearms law . I would be interested to know what level of knowledge is possessed by both sides of the argument . Please be honest . Justin""","""Just to contribute , I 'm pro-gun , have had training in the proper use and laws in my area , and have owned weapons for more than 30 years .""",DISAGREE,"""those in favor of stricter firearms law , are not familiar with firearms or current firearms law .""","""I 'm pro-gun , have had training in the proper use and laws in my area , and have owned weapons for more than 30 years .""",,
9499,2540,"""From what I DO know of you , you have quite the reputation over at IIDB , something to do with `` butterfly wombs `` which you claimed butterflies had .""","""What is IIDB ?""",DISAGREE,"""you have quite the reputation over at IIDB ,""","""What is IIDB ?""",,
9528,2546,"""It is a true transition form , but the argument is whether several different reptile-bird transitionals evolved and which one actually is the ancestor of the birds .""","""Actually , no . A specific fossil can not be , and probably will never be , identified as the ancestor of birds with any certainty . It is doubtful that the fossil record will ever be so complete as to make that possible . Your remark tends to support the confusion of creationists . They tend to represent the idea of a transitional as ancestral . Since the ancestral status of any particular fossil ca n't be acertained for any given fossil , and since any given fossil is usually placed in one of the major taxonomic groups , creationists feel justified in claiming that it is just a bird - thus , no transitionals exist . But if you look at life you will see that it is like a bush with many branches . What is being discovered in China is part of the bush that was the lineage from theropod to avian , as was Archaeopteryx . That bush is what is expected from evolutionary theory . There are several fossils that show a progression from dinosaur to bird . We do n't expect a ladder-like chain of a single lineage that evolved until a point that it branched into the birds . There are many lines along that path that went no where but were similar to the one that became the birds .""",DISAGREE,"""the argument is whether several different reptile-bird transitionals evolved and which one actually is the ancestor of the birds .""","""Actually , no . A specific fossil can not be , and probably will never be , identified as the ancestor of birds with any certainty .""",,
9535,2547,"""I can tell you that you have totally swallowed the information you copied from the website above . You have already decided that you will not believe . Because you do not want to . Because you do not have to right now . All is too easy for you .""","""Actually looking back I wish I had n't posted a lot of what is on those websites . It is a lot of poor arguments and I 'm glad I was able to realize that over the last 3 months . Had I already decided to believe that all of it was true I would n't be here debating you now . You say I do n't want to know . I wonder if you would want to know if God did n't exist . Is that why at the end of your post you seem so unhappy to debate this further ?""",DISAGREE,"""You have already decided that you will not believe .""","""Had I already decided to believe that all of it was true I would n't be here debating you now .""",,
9547,2550,"""Why do people on the pro-gun side continuously try to oversimplify the issue ? No one is really arguing that there would be zero murder without guns . The question is would there be less murders without guns . In developed nations with stricter gun laws there are less murders . At any rate , I do n't think you can draw such conclusions based on one incident .""","""A slimey claim you can not support as usual . In developed Nations , the U.S. is far down the list as has been posted on this very board at least 5 times . Those 'other ' Nations also have far more crime and violent crime than the U.S .""",DISAGREE,"""The question is would there be less murders without guns .""","""A slimey claim you can not support as usual .""",,
9549,2551,"""* Excepting I wonder why you state just 'physical evidence ' ?""","""You asked for an example , I gave you an example .......""",DISAGREE,"""Excepting I wonder why you state just 'physical evidence""","""asked for an example , I gave you an example""",,
9568,2555,"""Read these storys of self defence and then tell me Brady how you can justify these The injustice of the British ban on self defense Making matters worse , the British legal system seems to treat crime victims worse than it treats the criminals who attacked them . An example is the Tony Martin case : Tony Martin was a farmer , whose remote farmhouse had been broken in to many times . Martin feared future burglary attempts and the risk of being attacked by a violent burglar . When a pair of burglars broke in while he was home , Martin opened fire with a pump action shotgun . The 16-year-old burglar Fred Barras was killed , and 33-year-old Brendon Fearon was wounded in the leg . Later on that day , the police arrested Tony Martin and charged him with the crimes of murder and wounding with intent . At trial , Martin argued that he had acted in self defense , but the court found that he had fired while they were trying to flee . He was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison , although the conviction was later reduced to manslaughter with a 5 year sentence . The surviving criminal , who had over 30 criminal convictions , then sued Tony Martin for the injury he suffered during the burglary . The parole board refused to grant Tony Martin an early release because he  “ has shown no remorse and would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars. ” Martin was eventually released from prison after spending years in prison and being vilified by the anti-gun groups in the UK for shooting criminals who had broken into his home . Another example , from 2009 , also shows how the British legal system favors criminals over their victims : A millionaire businessman has been jailed for attacking a man who held his family hostage in their own home – while the criminal went free . Munir Hussain , who was threatened at knifepoint and tied up by a gang of masked men in his living room last year , was told he must go to prison for 30 months to preserve  “ civilised society ” . But Walid Salem , a criminal with more than 50 convictions , was handed a two-year supervision order for his role in the break-in at an earlier hearing . He was one of three men who ambushed Mr Hussain , his wife and children as they returned to their home in High Wycombe , Bucks , on Sept 3 last year after attending Ramadan prayers at their local mosque , Reading Crown Court heard . Their hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to crawl from room to room before being forced to lie down in the living room . But when Hussain ’ s teenage son managed to escape and raise the alarm , he seized his chance and turned on his captors . . . The brothers were found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent by a jury in September . Sentencing , Judge John Reddihough told them it was his  “ public duty ” to jailing Munir Hussain for 30 months and his brother for 39 months . This one is quite nice as well Cleared : Builder who chopped off thug 's ear with Samurai sword after he threatened to rape and kill his family | Mail Online Well thank god for the gun ban in england . It has completely wiped out all crime meaning no citizen ever needs to defend themself .""","""When the criminal has greater civil protections than his victim , and this is viewed as being civilized , a society is doomed .""",AGREE,"""Brady how you can justify these The injustice of the British ban on self defense Making matters worse ,""","""When the criminal has greater civil protections than his victim""",,
9599,2572,"""The possibility that life was created by extraterrestrials currently has 0 evidence to support it .""","""Well , `` evidence `` for an extraterrestrial creation is n't just through visions and people who have `` seen `` UFO 's . You forget `` evidence `` given by astronomes such as the people from SETI . ( SETI is an organization founded after scientists have discovered a strange signal from outer-space . From there on the organization has developed very much ) The signal , the SETI people got showed the first three prime numbers . This is very strange because it has never happened before ( the scientist who detected the signal , called it WOW-signal , because it was so strange ) This signal shows a major part of Design : Specification But unfortunately , to show that it is really true , it is missing another part : Complexity The signal is evidence , but unfortunately it is too short . If those scientists would detect a signal that shows the prime numbers from 2 to 101 it would meet both parts : it has specification and complexity ... The SETI people would party all night ... So these `` theories `` are n't as unproven as you think they are ... ( I still do n't believe it happened like that )""",DISAGREE,"""The possibility that life was created by extraterrestrials currently has 0 evidence to support it .""","""Well , `` evidence `` for an extraterrestrial creation is n't just through visions and people who have `` seen `` UFO 's . You forget `` evidence `` given by astronomes such as the people from SETI .""",,
9614,2574,"""Which is true , [ see above ] , but which is nothing to be ashamed of , since it applies to anyone , including myself , who feels motivated to debate philosophy .""","""But I 'm not debating philosophy , WW ; I 'm debating evolutionary theories .""",DISAGREE,"""Which is true , [ see above ] , but which is nothing to be ashamed of , since it applies to anyone , including myself""","""But I 'm not debating philosophy , WW ; I 'm debating evolutionary theories .""",,
9619,2574,"""Which is true , [ see above ] , but which is nothing to be ashamed of , since it applies to anyone , including myself , who feels motivated to debate philosophy .""","""But I 'm not debating philosophy , WW ; I 'm debating evolutionary theories .""",DISAGREE,"""which is nothing to be ashamed of , since it applies to anyone ,""","""I 'm not debating philosophy , WW ; I 'm debating evolutionary theories .""",,
9627,2575,"""And let us not forget that its very well documented that mutations in DNA do lead to new chemical structures which are part of the body of microbes . Any contention that new `` parts `` can not be based on genes is doomed to failure on a simple empirical basis . It is without question the case that the bacterial flagella parts are specified by genes AND that changing those genes changes the corresponding parts .""","""so what if flagella parts are effected by a change of genes ? .... so are fly wings . The challenge was to present me any evidence that mutations can actually create new raw material for selection . You have to get out of the swamp somehow . I think this concept of mutations as being creators has gotten a pass for too long now .""",DISAGREE,"""mutations in DNA do lead to new chemical structures the bacterial flagella parts are specified by genes changing those genes changes the corresponding parts .""","""so what are effected by a change of genes are fly wings . have to get out of the swamp""",,
9639,2576,"""Shortly after its writing in 1859 to the present day , it spawned a whole new world of ethics and philosophy , and is firmly entrenched in popular culture .""","""Actually , ethics and philosophy are irrelevant . If they are based on Darwin , then they are wrong . Possibly are you referring to the eugenics policies and genocide policies of christian Nazis ?""",DISAGREE,"""spawned a whole new world of ethics and philosophy firmly entrenched in popular culture .""","""are irrelevant they are wrong .""",,
9660,2591,"""Except that Occam 's razor is used for comparing hypotheses . In this example , I expect that the `` car hit the animal `` hypothesis is simpler than any other hypothesis .""","""And what do you conclude from this comparison ? That the car hypothesis is correct and any other hypothesis is wrong , right ? So you stop investigating . But is that how we should do science ? NO . It 's laziness and an intellectual copout . What we have is a misuse of the Razor . The Razor is not supposed to be used for comparing hypotheses . Instead , it 's supposed to keep hypotheses out of descriptions of phenomenon .""",DISAGREE,"""Except that Occam 's razor is used for comparing hypotheses .""","""And what do you conclude from this comparison ?""",,
9673,2593,"""From your statement I presume that the moment you were conceived you became aware of being a human .... this is very interesting indeed as you had no brain at that time .""","""Actually , at the moment I was conceived , someone else became aware of me becoming a human . Brain development does not define a human , it is our potential that helps define us .""",DISAGREE,"""the moment you were conceived you became aware of being a human ....""","""Actually , at the moment I was conceived , someone else became aware of me becoming a human .""",,
9680,2594,"""Not only have I undercut your snails""","""Oh No , everyone ! Our Mollusca has been undercut ! Whatever shall we do ?""",DISAGREE,"""Not only have I undercut""","""Oh No , everyone !""",,
9689,2595,"""By this same argument I am a prophet . I predict that within a week God will destroy the building in which I am sitting . How will you know that I 'm correct ? It does n't matter ! If the building collapses I will be correct . If it does n't , then I 'll just claim that God changed her mind . ( Sheesh ! )""","""Indeed - funny how religion - especially the religion in question - has set these impenetrable shields and escape clauses .... Reminds me of the prayer groups that sought first to prevetn the U.S. from entering WWI . After we entered , they prayed for the war to end . A year and a few tens of thousands of bodies later , the war ends , and the prayer groups thank God for hearing them ....""",AGREE,"""How will you know that I 'm correct ? It does n't matter ! If the building collapses I will be correct . If it does n't , then I 'll just claim that God changed her mind .""","""Reminds me of the prayer groups that sought first to prevetn the U.S. from entering WWI . After we entered , they prayed for the war to end . A year and a few tens of thousands of bodies later , the war ends , and the prayer groups thank God for hearing them ....""",,
9700,2597,"""this statement is n't logical . It does not follow that if the person who creates the laws has to therefore follow them or ca n't change them ... or even that they apply to him . If a teacher says `` no talking in the classroom `` it does n't apply to the teacher now does it .""","""saiah 55:8-9 ( New International Version ) 8 `` For my thoughts are not your thoughts , neither are your ways my ways , `` declares the LORD . 9 `` As the heavens are higher than the earth , so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts .""",DISAGREE,"""this statement is n't logical .""","""For my thoughts are not your thoughts , neither are your ways my ways , ``""",,
9702,2598,"""His opponents were not overlooking `` most likely `` . Instead , they were taking `` most likely `` to the extreme and saying `` this is what it actually is `` . You do the same thing with your dead animal and car vs alien . While you say `` most likely `` , what you really mean is that the alien hypothesis is wrong .""","""And my interpretation of my writing is that I did n't mean that . Who has more authority ?""",DISAGREE,"""what you really mean is that the alien hypothesis is wrong .""","""And my interpretation of my writing is that I did n't mean that . Who has more authority ?""",,
9708,2601,"""Evolution implies species go through a process of advantagous and purposful change""","""No it does n't . First , the changes may not be neutral . I will presume that you are intelligent enough to grasp that idea the mutations in and of themselves are neither advantagous nor disadvantageous , and the they have no purpose . Evolution happens when the mutations ( and other mechanisms that increase genetic diversity ) are acted upon by other mechanisms of evolution . Even in natural selection there is no purpose . Natural selection is differential reproductive success . Some organisms tend to produce more offspring because they have characteristics that give them an advantage in a particular environment .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution implies species go through a process of advantagous and purposful change""","""No it does n't . First , the changes may not be neutral""",,
9717,2605,"""I will Arch , as soon as you debunk this list : EvC Forum : 100 Categories of Evidence Against Noah 's Flood Yes , it has 100 categories that refute a global flood . How about that ?""","""If I ever see Arch defend a position at EvC I will eat my hat and the hat of my fiance , too .""",DISAGREE,"""I will Arch , as soon as you debunk this list : EvC Forum""","""If I ever see Arch defend a position at EvC I will eat my hat and the hat of my fiance , too .""",,
9735,2610,"""the provisions of the DISCLOSE Act that would favor one group over another in restricting free speech""","""You know America has fallen to a disgusting low when the parasites are furious that someone 's rights are not being trampled on to an equal extent to everybody elses . It would be as though during the bombing campaign on Iraq , the left were out protesting that the US had n't killed an equal number of Israelis , to be equitable . Why even bother getting into the idiocy of someone who thinks the constitution means `` You can restrict free speech , as long as you restrict it to everybody equally , and do n't do the 2nd amendment lobby any favours `` , maybe they 've mistaken the constitution for the communist manifesto .""",DISAGREE,"""the provisions of the DISCLOSE Act that would favor""","""America has fallen to a disgusting low""",,
9742,2611,"""It would be bad enough if it was just the teacher chewing gum and telling the students do n't chew gum . But it does n't stop there . The teacher makes the rule no gum chewing in class . Then later that same day she instructs Billy and Sally to chew gum . Johnny sees this and decides to chew gum too , thinking that its ok. Of course , he gets expelled from school for breaking the rules . In this case the teacher is n't just breaking her own rules , she also commands some of her students to break the rules as well , yet still penalizes those who break the exact rule if they were n't commanded to do so .""","""Those who set the rules can do with them as they please . It is n't illogical nor hypocritical . It IS illogical to assume you can chew gum if the rule is `` you cant chew gum `` and the teacher allows one student to chew gum .""",DISAGREE,"""It would be bad enough if it was just the teacher chewing gum and telling the students do n't chew gum .""","""Those who set the rules can do with them""",,
9757,2616,"""No they were trying to not just find a singel gene but overall genetic causality in general . That is why there were so many studies . They have failed to find conclusive proof that sexuality of either type is geneticly derived . This in light of other behaviors is irrelevant . Handedness can also be learned , there is no proof it is geneticly derived or that it is n't but just because it is accepted as genetic does n't validate that assumption or assumptions for any other behaviors . The tendancy to be nervous or rape or commit other crimes may or may not be genetically related . So far they have no proof but would you say that a person genetically predisposed to anxiety is a positive benefit .""","""Just because something is genetically predisposed does not mean it has a positive benefit , but I never said that it did . Homosexuality is different , because it has no negative reprocussions that are not caused by something social or religious .""",DISAGREE,"""would you say that a person genetically predisposed to anxiety is a positive benefit""","""something is genetically predisposed does not mean it has a positive benefit""",,
9782,2626,"""For instance , take the model of the solar system . It has been observed that the planets and the Earth orbit around the sun ( heliocentric model ) , not everything orbiting around the world ( geocentric model ) .""","""It has ? Silly me . I thought that it was the conclusion made from an analysis of lots of data and measurements . You have a faulty understanding of science .""",DISAGREE,"""It has been observed that the planets and the Earth orbit around the sun""","""You have a faulty understanding of science .""",,
9801,2630,"""Where is your evidence of `` no God `` Atheism is a curse ! Agnosticism , is the only intellectually honest position , and next , as we proved with Freud , even the so called atheists , show up late in life as Theists ! ! ! Psalm 8,9 , 14 , 18 , 19 . The Heaven 's declare the glory of God . A fool in his heart says , there is NO God . Wake up and smell the coffee ! ! !""","""Did I ever say I had proof of no god ? I just said I have no proof of god . And I never even claimed anything close to the fact that there is no god . I said that there is no proof of a god and no proof of no god . The thing I pointed out was your double-standard . You do n't believe in parallel universes because there is no proof , yet you believe in God . Where is your proof there and there not proof for parallel universes . If you want to know what I believe , I really believe that what happens after death is irrelevant . I 'm going to live based on what I know . I know that I am alive ( or think I am ) . I know how to live it to the fullest ( and it does n't involve church or praying ) . I will live the way I want to which is probably very similar to the way you live yours . I have n't killed anyone , I try not to lie , I do n't steal . I have probably about the same morals you do , except for one thing . I do n't derive these morals from the fact that if I do n't live by them I will burn in hell . I live by them because I know they are the right thing to do . I will not live my life out of fear , I will live my life the best way I know how based on what I know . If there 's a god , he should n't have a problem with how I 'm living my life and if he does have a problem , I do n't want to listen to him anyway .""",DISAGREE,"""Where is your evidence of `` no God `` Atheism is a curse""","""I just said I have no proof of god I said that there is no proof of a god and no proof of no god .""",,
9806,2631,"""Intelligent design comes in many flavors too .""","""Indeed it does .""",AGREE,"""Intelligent design comes in many flavors too""","""Indeed it does .""",,
9815,2633,"""Samuel Adams If ye love wealth better than liberty , the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom , go home from us in peace . We ask not your counsels or your arms . Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you . May your chains set lightly upon you , and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen . And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press , or the rights of conscience ; or to prevent the people of the United States , who are peaceable citizens , from keeping their own arms ; or to raise standing armies , unless necessary for the defense of the United States , or of some one or more of them ; or to prevent the people from petitioning , in a peaceable and orderly manner , the federal legislature , for a redress of grievances ; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons , papers or possessions . Cesare Beccaria False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience ; that would take fire from men because it burns , and water because one may drown in it ; that has no remedy for evils except destruction . The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature . They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . Can it be supposed that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity , the most important of the code , will respect the less important and arbitrary ones , which can be violated with ease and impunity , and which , if strictly obeyed , would put an end to personal liberty ... and subject innocent persons to all the vexations that the guilty alone ought to suffer ? Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants ; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides , for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man . They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes , produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts , and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree . James Bovard As we learned from the Clinton administration and much of the media , a machine gun in the hands of a federal agent is now a symbol of benevolence and concern for a child 's well-being . William S. BurroughsAfter a shooting spree , they always want to take the guns away from the people who did n't do it . I sure as hell would n't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military . Bill ClintonThe purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people . When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights , giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans ... And so a lot of people say there 's too much personal freedom . When personal freedom 's being abused , you have to move to limit it . That 's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects , about how we 're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities . We ca n't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ... Cockrum v. State The right of a citizen to bear arms , in lawful defense of himself or the State , is absolute . He does not derive it from the State government . It is one of the high powers `` delegated directly to the citizen , and ` is excepted out of the general powers of government . ' A law can not be passed to infringe upon or impair it , because it is above the law , and independent of the lawmaking power . Rev . Nicholas Collin While the people have property , arms in their hands , and only a spark of noble spirit , the most corrupt Congress must be mad to form any project of tyranny . Tench CoxeThe militia of these free commonwealths , entitled and accustomed to their arms , when compared with any possible army , must be tremendous and irresistible . Who are the militia ? Are they not ourselves ? Is it feared , then , that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom . Congress have no power to disarm the militia . Their swords , and every other terrible implement of the soldier , are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments , but , where I trust in God it will ever remain , in the hands of the people . Whereas civil rulers , not having their duty to the people duly before them , may attempt to tyrannize , and as military forces , which must be occasionally raised to defend our country , might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens , the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms .""","""`` The right was in the context of the citizen soldier of the conscript militia . In the eighteenth century private arms were never strictly private . The public had a claim for public purposes . Coxe was a strong Federalist . He was employed in Hamilton 's Treasury Department during the Whiskey Rebellion . He expressed no concerns that the enrollment and inventory requirements of the Militia Act would infringe on right of the people to keep and bear their private arms. `` http : //www.potowmack.org/thequotes.html # coxe So Tench Coxe put quite a bit a faith in the power of the militia ? George Washington and Alexander Hamilton did n't agree . They thought that the militia was no match for a regular army . '' Regular troops alone are equal to the exignencies of modern war , as well for defense as for offense .... No militia will ever acquire the habits necessary to resist regular force .... The Firmness requisite for the real business of fighting is only to be attained by a constant course of discipline and service . I have never been yet been witness to a single instance that would justify a different opinion. `` ( Letter from George Washington to the President of Congress- September 15,1780 ) `` Here I expect we shall be told that the militia of the country is its natural bulwark , and would be at all times equal to the national defense . This doctrine , in substance , had like to have lost us our independence . It cost millions to the United States that might have been saved . The facts which , from our own experience , forbid a reliance of this kind , are too recent to permit us to be the dupes of such a suggestion . The steady operations of war against a regular and disciplined army can only be successfully conducted by a force of the same kind. `` -Alexander Hamilton http : //federalistpapers.com/federalist25.html""",DISAGREE,"""William S. BurroughsAfter a shooting spree , they always want to take the guns away from the people who did n't do it""","""The right was in the context of the citizen soldier of the conscript militia""",,
9819,2635,"""No Christian sin ? ? ? Other then the intent to kill and then doing so""","""And isnt that called pre-meditated murder if the baby ended up being killed ? ? hmmm""",AGREE,"""No Christian sin""","""And isnt that called pre-meditated murder if the baby ended up being killed""",,
9837,2647,"""However , having seen so many of Matthew S 's rants on oppression I was really taking the opportunity to ask if he really knows what oppressionmeans .""","""I think the history of discrimination against gays does count as oppression . Being classified as a `` mental illness `` with cures that could possibly involve shock `` therapy `` , castration , or lobotomies , having our sex be illegal , the type of harassment we have seen which should make any civilized person blush ... I understand you think the `` oppression `` could be worse , but quite frankly how many minority groups have undergone what gays have undergone ? I mean , there is no competing with the atrocities committed against the blacks , and millions of Jews died in the holocaust ( along with gay people ) , but what more is required before you can look at gay history and not see it as `` oppression `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""However , having seen so many of Matthew S 's rants on oppression I was really taking the opportunity to ask if he really knows what oppressionmeans .""","""I think the history of discrimination against gays does count as oppression . Being classified as a `` mental illness `` with cures that could possibly involve shock `` therapy `` , castration , or lobotomies , having our sex be illegal , the type of harassment we have seen which should make any civilized person blush""",,
9844,2648,"""So the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory . Twenty years ago I could remember events at my fourth birthday , but today those memories are gone . For a while I had personhood at 4 years of age , but today , looking back , I did not have personhood until I was 6 . As I age and my memory fails , it may turn out that I did not have personhood until I was 21 years old . Personnhood comes and goes . Do I have it right ?  ” Not aware ” ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Not aware of what ? Shoot a gun behind them and they will flinch . They are aware of loud noises . Throw them wildly into the air and they will cry . They are aware of their own movement . Pinch them , they will cry . They are self aware as they chew on their toes . And of course puppies are aware as well . Unless of course I do not understand what you mean by aware .""","""With all due respect my friend , this is foolishness . It 's as if you 're saying that a persons existence is based on their memories from their past . That is ridiculous because if it 's true then , we oughta take every person who 's in the throws of Alzhiemers out and euthanize them because they ca n't remember what they did yesterday . Just because you ca n't remember what you did at 4 does n't negate for one moment that you still existed at 4 so your existence had value and substance even though you can no longer remember what happened back then in your life .""",DISAGREE,"""So the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory Twenty years ago I could remember events at my fourth birthday , but today those memories are gone . and""","""With all due respect my friend , this is foolishness . It 's as if you 're saying that a persons existence is based on their memories from their past .""",,
9863,2651,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 The crime was committed when he took possesion of the firearm . Do you know of any other crimes that your are guilty of when your are innocent in the past then the law makes you guilty later for a past event ? If the speed limit is 40 mph on Monday , the law makes it 30 mph on Tuesday , are you guilty of speeding when it was Monday ? Well in the UK you are .""","""23,000 firearms were handed in when the UK had its gun ban . According to your logic those people that handed in their firearms can still be prosecuted because they took possession of a firearm prior to the ban . I do n't think so .""",DISAGREE,"""Well in the UK you are .""","""I do n't think so .""",,
9874,2653,"""And as I have stated before , evolutionists are afraid of testing animals . They ’ re afraid to test to see if individual animals quickly change phenotypes as a result of an environmental change . ( I challenge anyone to prove me wrong with a link . )""","""Do you want something other than peppered moths , bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics , Darwin ’ s finches , and the other species of the Galapagos ? Maybe biologists are not allowed to do tests on animals that will kill many of them . This reminds me of Kent Hovind 's reward for evidence of evolution : impossible to fulfill .""",DISAGREE,"""And as I have stated before , evolutionists are afraid of testing animals""","""Do you want something other than peppered moths , bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics ,""",,
9928,2677,"""Orthodox Jews believe that if the mother is pregnant and her life is threatened , she can have an abortion . However , Christian theology is different because we have more books to understand that passage . : - )""","""How extraordinary that Catholic theologians understand the Old Testament better than the folks who wrote it because they `` have more books to understand that passage. `` Yeah , there has been a lot of Catholic blather written to obfuscate the Bible .""",DISAGREE,"""Christian theology is different because we have more books to understand that passage""","""Yeah , there has been a lot of Catholic blather written to obfuscate the Bible .""",,
9938,2678,"""Well , of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended .""","""Greater legal minds than yours or mine see laws against same-sex marriage as unconstitutional `` limiting `` . Quibble with them if you want , but that 's how they put it .""",AGREE,"""of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage ,""","""laws against same-sex marriage as unconstitutional `` limiting `` .""",,
9949,2680,"""You missed `` should not be required ``""","""That 's the opinion I hold , that CCWs should n't be required . But this thread assumes that CCWs are required .""",AGREE,"""should not be required ``""","""That 's the opinion I hold ,""",,
9951,2680,"""You missed `` should not be required ``""","""That 's the opinion I hold , that CCWs should n't be required . But this thread assumes that CCWs are required .""",AGREE,"""You missed `` should not be required ``""","""That 's the opinion I hold""",,
9954,2681,"""Your are right it was and issue but most states were not interested in changing their constitutions ......... That changed when activist judges in Mass started making the law instead of interpreting it .......""","""Well , I would agree that as many constitutional ammendments probably would not have passed , but I certainly do n't think they all would not have been passed , and I do n't think that Massachusettes allowing same-sex marriage was a bad thing . Constitutional ammendments are difficult to overcome , but no one can ever change a law if people are n't willing to take a stand and fight for it . Can you tell that I love the quote in Jyoshu 's signature ?""",AGREE,"""right it was and issue most states were not interested in changing their constitutions activist judges started making the law instead of interpreting it""","""I do n't think Massachusettes allowing same-sex marriage was a bad thing""",,
9959,2689,"""I do n't know what 'chance as causality ' is supposed to mean , but to speak of evolution being 'based on chance ' is highly misleading .""","""No , it is you young padawan learner ... that has been mislead , some of the most famous and noted Darwinian Naturalists such as Crick , Huxley , Lipson ... and others have admitted to their own discredit that the entire theory of evolutions rests on chance , here ... but here , lets burst that bubble for you a bit more :""",DISAGREE,"""know what 'chance as causality ' but to speak of evolution being 'based on chance ' is highly misleading .""","""No , it is you ... that has been mislead some of the most famous and noted Darwinian Naturalists have admitted to their own discredit""",,
9970,2692,"""I agree that this does not settle anything , it merely points out that the unborn do not have all of the same legal recognitions that the born have . I for one , am dead set against allowing the unborn to vote ... and drive .""","""But ... but ... I just swallowed 56 zygotes so that they could vote by proxy through me for the Ripofflican ( tm ) party this upcoming election so they can win . Now I 'm going to have all that indigestion for nothin ' . As to driving ... do n't care . What I 'll miss most is all of those credit card offers that come in their names . There 's just so much that they , living though me want to 'buy now and pay later ' on . You saying they ca n't do that ?""",DISAGREE,"""I agree that this does not settle anything , it merely points out that the unborn do not have all of the same legal recognitions that the born have . I for one , am dead set against allowing the unborn to vote ... and drive .""","""But ... but ... I just swallowed 56 zygotes so that they could vote by proxy through me for the Ripofflican ( tm ) party this upcoming election so they can win . Now I 'm going to have all that indigestion for nothin ' . As to driving ... do n't care . What I 'll miss most is all of those credit card offers that come in their names . There 's just so much that they , living though me want to 'buy now and pay later ' on . You saying they ca n't do that ?""",,
9973,2692,"""I agree that this does not settle anything , it merely points out that the unborn do not have all of the same legal recognitions that the born have . I for one , am dead set against allowing the unborn to vote ... and drive .""","""But ... but ... I just swallowed 56 zygotes so that they could vote by proxy through me for the Ripofflican ( tm ) party this upcoming election so they can win . Now I 'm going to have all that indigestion for nothin ' . As to driving ... do n't care . What I 'll miss most is all of those credit card offers that come in their names . There 's just so much that they , living though me want to 'buy now and pay later ' on . You saying they ca n't do that ?""",DISAGREE,"""it merely points out that the unborn do not have all of the same legal recognitions that the born have am dead set against allowing the unborn to vote ... and drive .""","""I just swallowed 56 zygotes so that they could vote by proxy through me for the Ripofflican ( tm ) party this upcoming election""",,
9983,2695,"""But if you think that is bad , the Clinton administration pales in comparison to the United Nations ' attitude on gun ownership . This week the U.N. conference to `` Prevent , combat , and eradicate the Illicit Trade in small arms and Light Weapons in All Aspects , `` which concludes today , puts these views in straightforward terms : Governments have the `` right `` to guns for `` self defense and security needs. `` On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . And to the extent that individuals do buy guns , third-world and western European countries are pushing for a tax on every gun purchase , with the money then being used to eliminate world hunger .""","""Sounds like liberal XXXX . Fighting hunger ... tztz""",DISAGREE,"""But if you think that is bad , the Clinton administration pales in comparison to the United Nations ' attitude on gun ownership . This week the U.N. conference to `` Prevent , combat , and eradicate the Illicit Trade in small arms and Light Weapons in All Aspects , `` which concludes today , puts these views in straightforward terms : Governments have the `` right `` to guns for `` self defense and security needs. `` On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . And to the extent that individuals do buy guns , third-world and western European countries are pushing for a tax on every gun purchase , with the money then being used to eliminate world hunger .""","""Sounds like liberal XXXX . Fighting hunger ... tztz""",,
10008,2703,"""Yeah , so what about it ?""","""It 's just incredibly bad fact-twisting .""",DISAGREE,"""what about it ?""","""incredibly bad fact-twisting .""",,
10007,2703,"""Yeah , so what about it ?""","""It 's just incredibly bad fact-twisting .""",DISAGREE,"""so what about it ?""","""bad fact-twisting""",,
10013,2703,"""Yeah , so what about it ?""","""It 's just incredibly bad fact-twisting .""",DISAGREE,"""Yeah , so what about it ?""","""It 's just incredibly bad fact-twisting .""",,
10021,2704,"""I still find it ironic that so many people actually construe the 9th amendment to achieve a magical number of rights .""","""Well , one has to use something to make the Constitution say something that it does not say ; especially if it does n't say something that one really , really , really wants to have .""",AGREE,"""ironic construe amendment magical number""","""something Constitution really wants to have""",,
10030,2705,"""Of the court cases that have been decided over 92 % have resulted in convictions . Statistically , it 's highly unlikely that there will be big deviance from this pattern for the remaining cases . I do n't think presenting information that shows that people with concealed handgun permits very likely kill more innocent people than criminals is a punch in the face to the VPC .""","""Oh vey ! Vat du they say about the U.S . Marshals service committing more crimes than people they have actually arrested for a crime ?""",AGREE,"""do n't think information that shows that people with concealed handgun permits very likely kill more innocent people than a punch in the face""","""say about the U.S . Marshals service committing more crimes than people they have actually arrested for a crime ?""",,
10026,2705,"""Of the court cases that have been decided over 92 % have resulted in convictions . Statistically , it 's highly unlikely that there will be big deviance from this pattern for the remaining cases . I do n't think presenting information that shows that people with concealed handgun permits very likely kill more innocent people than criminals is a punch in the face to the VPC .""","""Oh vey ! Vat du they say about the U.S . Marshals service committing more crimes than people they have actually arrested for a crime ?""",AGREE,"""Of the court cases that have been decided over 92 % have resulted in convictions .""","""Marshals service committing more crimes than people they have actually arrested for a crime ?""",,
10039,2706,"""The only person being dishonest around here is you . Need I post every single time he made that claim in this thread for you to take responsibility for the claim being made ? And why are you commenting on a thread you obviously have n't read if you 're denying what is written clearly for all to see ? Why must you people come to threads I 'm on and derail them with ridiculous minutia rather than actually deal with the debate that is being argued ?""","""You know why . Because they want you to stop posting . Most of them want to rant , and they do n't want their rants challanged . It 's typical of the whole evolutionary community , I 'm afraid . Obvious_child and I are exploring this up in the `` numbers `` thread .""",AGREE,"""n't read ridiculous minutia""","""rant , challanged Obvious_child exploring""",,
10057,2708,"""I CAN EMPIRICALLY PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE GOD OF THE BIBLE VIA ITS CENTRAL CLAIMS""","""Well , that 's at least one helluva way to say good bye .""",DISAGREE,"""EMPIRICALLY PROVE EXISTENCE GOD""","""helluva way""",,
10064,2708,"""I CAN EMPIRICALLY PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE GOD OF THE BIBLE VIA ITS CENTRAL CLAIMS""","""Well , that 's at least one helluva way to say good bye .""",DISAGREE,"""I CAN EMPIRICALLY PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE GOD OF THE BIBLE VIA ITS CENTRAL""","""Well , that 's at least one helluva way to say good bye .""",,
10074,2709,"""You folks ca n't box with God , your arms ai n't long enough . Many arguments are made about whether creation or evolution should be taught in our schools . I believe in creationism because I have never met an evolutionist who can explain where the very first sign of life came from . Can something not alive give birth to life ? Can something not alive change to be alive ? The answer to both questions is NO ! There are many things I do n't know , but two things I do know are science will never create anything from nothing and science will never create life from nonlife . I still think that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in our creator""","""But would an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred to you had no one told you to take their word it was a fact ?""",DISAGREE,"""I still think that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in our creator""","""would an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred to you had no one told you to take their word it was a fact ?""",,
10069,2709,"""You folks ca n't box with God , your arms ai n't long enough . Many arguments are made about whether creation or evolution should be taught in our schools . I believe in creationism because I have never met an evolutionist who can explain where the very first sign of life came from . Can something not alive give birth to life ? Can something not alive change to be alive ? The answer to both questions is NO ! There are many things I do n't know , but two things I do know are science will never create anything from nothing and science will never create life from nonlife . I still think that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in our creator""","""But would an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred to you had no one told you to take their word it was a fact ?""",DISAGREE,"""Can something not alive change to be alive ?""","""But would an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred""",,
10066,2709,"""You folks ca n't box with God , your arms ai n't long enough . Many arguments are made about whether creation or evolution should be taught in our schools . I believe in creationism because I have never met an evolutionist who can explain where the very first sign of life came from . Can something not alive give birth to life ? Can something not alive change to be alive ? The answer to both questions is NO ! There are many things I do n't know , but two things I do know are science will never create anything from nothing and science will never create life from nonlife . I still think that it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to believe in our creator""","""But would an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred to you had no one told you to take their word it was a fact ?""",DISAGREE,"""Many arguments are made about whether creation or evolution should be taught in our schools .""","""an all-powerful being having done it have spontaneously occurred""",,
10079,2710,"""Fire and tool use means that having a big brain becomes less of a disadvantage and more of an advantage now that you can feed it yea but you have to have the brains to build a fire before it becomes an advantage . sigh .""","""But a slightly larger brain than average is still feasible and offers enough of a benefit in a large social group that its worth the price - however something the size of a modern humans brain is far too demanding . That slightly larger brain can be supported by an organism or society that has n't developed fire , but is also able to discover the uses of it , from then on nutrician is n't the big limiting factor that restricts how big a brain can get from then on .""",AGREE,"""Fire and tool use means that having a big brain becomes less of a disadvantage""","""But a slightly larger brain than average is still feasible and offers enough of a benefit""",,
10090,2713,"""There are many , many , many people who have done work to stop/block gay marriage and other gay rights when they , themselves , are not gay . That is not merely passing judgement - that is imposition . All I am asking here is that Archie , you , JP , etc . own that .""","""To the extent that working toward social change on any moralistic issue is an 'imposition ' , sure . But I think one could say that about anything that has a social effect .""",AGREE,"""That is not merely passing judgement - that is imposition""","""I think one could say that about anything that has a social effect""",,
10106,2716,"""4 ) the reason for the long hands would b that they didnt have any technology or equipments with them , no shovel , no bucket , no knife and etc .... which meant they use their hand for everything , digging , carrying rocks , walking and etc ... the reason for the bent back is they did n't have chairs or bed that would straight out ur collumn nor did they knew any better .""","""Oh dear . Have you ever looked at a human spine ? It is curved : it 's bent . A straight spine is a knackered spine . As to the hands bit , what are you on about ? You are aware I hope that the story that the nosey elephant got it 's trunk because a crocodile grabbed the end and stretched it is just a story ?""",DISAGREE,"""etc ... the reason for the bent back is they did n't have chairs or bed that would straight out ur collumn nor did they knew any better .""","""Have you ever looked at a human spine ? It is curved : it 's bent . A straight spine is a knackered spine .""",,
10138,2719,"""Undesired first pregnancy is an acute problem for many girls who choose to go under the surgical knife , even though that often ends up with infertility , broken life etc . Dry fasting is an alternative to first pregnancy abortion . If applied , up to 2-3 months old embryo gets dissolved after 15-16 days of the fast . Plus , there is no `` christian `` sin . Vitalij""","""No Christian sin ? ? ? Other then the intent to kill and then doing so""",DISAGREE,"""there is no `` christian `` sin .""","""No Christian sin ? ? ?""",,
10144,2720,"""If you plan to set that methodology aside in favour of something else ,""","""* * The `` methodology `` of science is not materialism/mechanism/darwinism , but simply empiricism leading inductively/abductively to hypotheses regarding regularities in causation in nature that can be tested via the predictive experimentation of the scientific method . Neither empiricism or the epistemological process of the scientific method are the exclusive property of materialism/mechanism , nor did they originate from within that metaphysic , despite the beliefs of materialist/mechanists to that effect . Unfortunately , some 150 years ago , that methodology was set aside , and has remained out of sight , with regard to the hypothesis that is generally referred to as 'darwinism ' .""",DISAGREE,"""plan to set that methodology""","""methodology `` of science is not , predictive experimentation of the scientific method hypothesis that is generally referred to as 'darwinism '""",,
10145,2720,"""If you plan to set that methodology aside in favour of something else ,""","""* * The `` methodology `` of science is not materialism/mechanism/darwinism , but simply empiricism leading inductively/abductively to hypotheses regarding regularities in causation in nature that can be tested via the predictive experimentation of the scientific method . Neither empiricism or the epistemological process of the scientific method are the exclusive property of materialism/mechanism , nor did they originate from within that metaphysic , despite the beliefs of materialist/mechanists to that effect . Unfortunately , some 150 years ago , that methodology was set aside , and has remained out of sight , with regard to the hypothesis that is generally referred to as 'darwinism ' .""",DISAGREE,"""If you plan to set that methodology aside in favour""","""methodology was set aside , and has remained out of sight , with regard to the hypothesis""",,
10155,2721,"""In contrast , evolutionists laughingly look at the miniscule differences between individuals of a population and dare call those who survive the `` fittest `` -- when actually , since each member of the population is almost exactly the same , the `` fittest `` are actually just the luckiest""","""They are not exactly the same . See the examples above . It is not random .""",DISAGREE,"""evolutionists laughingly look at the miniscule survive the `` fittest `` -- `` fittest `` are actually just the luckiest""","""not exactly the same It is not random""",,
10164,2722,"""How can a museum about creationism show `` Fossil `` collections ? Aren ; t those more about supporting evolution ? I am very puzzled !""","""Fossils are evidence , not theory . They can be used in the construction of any theory , including creationism . Whether this is 'just ' or not , is another issue . I point this out as many seem confused about evidence , and think that it just points to something without interpretation""",DISAGREE,"""those more about supporting evolution""","""construction of any theory , including creationism confused about evidence , something without interpretation""",,
10178,2723,"""unemployment did not decrease during reagans administration , it increased . and the deficit remained extremely high until clinton 's administration . can you please respond to FDR and his New Deal that saved the country ?""","""FDR saved this country ? If I recall , it was in 1933 that , because of a combination of weakened capital situations from Reconstruction Finance Corporation loans which published lists of the loan takers , and a nation-wide banking holiday , banks around the country went through a new wave of demise , dropping the D/C and D/R ratios so sharply that , in one month alone , the money stock ( M2 ) fell a whopping 4 1/2 % . Wasnt it under FDR that the NIRA codes , and , after 1935 , the NLRA , enacted minimum wages , driving up nominal wages and thus unemployment ? Wasnt it during FDR administration that the reserve ratio was * doubled * , sending us back into another recession starting 1937 ? The only thing FDR `` saved `` was the depression for a couple more years . -GFA""",DISAGREE,"""can you please respond to FDR and his New Deal that saved the country ?""","""FDR saved this country ? , Wasnt it under FDR that the NIRA codes Wasnt it during FDR administration that the reserve ratio was * doubled * , sending us back into another recession starting 1937 ? ``""",,
10211,2733,"""As to the rest of your post , well , from your attitude I can tell you are not Christian in the least .""","""Well I 'm not sure you are if we consider my attitude non-Christian . You argued that Islam was atheism , that Shinto and Buddhism were atheism . Furthermore you refuse to actually back up any of your arguments and when push comes to shove , you resort to these kind of arguments . But perhaps you are n't a Christian , but instead a Biblist . Someone who worships the Bible as their God .""",DISAGREE,"""I can tell you are not Christian in the least .""","""But perhaps you are n't a Christian , but instead a Biblist . Someone who worships the Bible as their God""",,
10217,2736,"""Some people do n't realise this but it is an actual living thing that you are killing when you have an abortion ,""","""Actually I think most people DO realize this .""",AGREE,"""Some people do n't realise this but""","""I think most people DO realize this .""",,
10244,2748,"""Since evolution ca n't prove the book of Genesis ( ancient history ) false ,""","""It can and already has proved a literal interpretation of Genesis false .""",DISAGREE,"""Since evolution ca n't prove the book of Genesis ( ancient history ) false ,""","""It can and already has proved a literal interpretation of Genesis false .""",,
10293,2762,"""By the way .... it 's not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 % http : //www.sciam.com/article.cfm ? cha ... A795436FEF8039""","""The first article is from 2002 and the second one is from 2006 , molecular genetics changed massively over that period of time with the completition of the human genome project and the development of new technology . What they would be looking at and comparing would have changed drastically as well , from just the genes in the first case ( the 99 % figure ) and everything in the second ( 94 % ) .""",AGREE,"""By the way .... it 's not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 %""","""What they would be looking at and comparing would have changed drastically as well , from just the genes in the first case ( the 99 % figure ) and everything in the second ( 94 % ) .""",,
10291,2762,"""By the way .... it 's not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 % http : //www.sciam.com/article.cfm ? cha ... A795436FEF8039""","""The first article is from 2002 and the second one is from 2006 , molecular genetics changed massively over that period of time with the completition of the human genome project and the development of new technology . What they would be looking at and comparing would have changed drastically as well , from just the genes in the first case ( the 99 % figure ) and everything in the second ( 94 % ) .""",AGREE,"""it 's not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 %""","""the genes in the first case ( the 99 % figure ) and everything in the second ( 94 % ) .""",,
10299,2763,"""Good thing you know who is n't around to tear you a new one . Waxy""","""Actually he is , and he 's posted on this thread . It is a pity that you 're unwilling to debate , but endeavour a smear campaign as you did on the Science and Math posts . I would advise you read the above quote before talking again""",DISAGREE,"""know who is n't around to tear you a new one . Waxy""","""It is a pity that you 're unwilling to debate , but endeavour a smear campaign as you did on the Science""",,
10321,2767,"""Perfect Order : The earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off towards the sun ...""","""And here ladies and gentlemen we have the evidence of why I am justified in calling the likes of `` stormboy `` an XXXXX . The guy tries to discuss science when he is so utterly lacking in basic science that he thinks that the earth spins to `` keep [ s ] the oceans from falling off towards the sun `` ... stormboy , there is a thing called gravity : it is what `` keep [ s ] the oceans from falling off towards the sun `` . Now please go away and get an education , then when you have even the faintest idea of what you are talking about ( which you currently do not ) , come back and attempt to debate . It will be for your own good as you are just making yourself look a prat by staying here .""",DISAGREE,"""The earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off towards the sun ...""","""we have the evidence of why I am justified in calling the likes of `` stormboy `` an XXXXX . stormboy , there is a thing called gravity : it is what `` keep [ s ] the oceans from falling off towards the sun `` . Now please go away and get an education ,""",,
10318,2767,"""Perfect Order : The earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off towards the sun ...""","""And here ladies and gentlemen we have the evidence of why I am justified in calling the likes of `` stormboy `` an XXXXX . The guy tries to discuss science when he is so utterly lacking in basic science that he thinks that the earth spins to `` keep [ s ] the oceans from falling off towards the sun `` ... stormboy , there is a thing called gravity : it is what `` keep [ s ] the oceans from falling off towards the sun `` . Now please go away and get an education , then when you have even the faintest idea of what you are talking about ( which you currently do not ) , come back and attempt to debate . It will be for your own good as you are just making yourself look a prat by staying here .""",DISAGREE,"""earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off towards the sun ...""","""and an The guy tries to discuss science when he is so utterly lacking in basic science that he thinks that the earth spins to `` Now please go away get education ,""",,
10339,2771,"""And since human evolution is where most of the conflict is , I 'd say this is a pretty important .""","""`` A pretty important `` ? Actually , not really . The ToE has evidence from all over the various domains of life . Human evolution is n't too much more relevant than bacterial evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'd say this is a pretty important .""","""Actually , not really .""",,
10355,2775,"""How , despite centuries of artificial breeding and decades of experiments , no one has ever observed one species turn into another ( `` speciation `` )""","""Out-and-out lie . There 's really no other way to put this .""",DISAGREE,"""How , despite centuries of artificial breeding and decades of experiments , no one has ever observed one species turn into another ( `` speciation `` )""","""Out-and-out lie . There 's really no other way to put this .""",,
10374,2780,"""We supposedly evolved from simplistic monkeys to what we are today .""","""Either a gross misunderstanding or a gross misrepresentation of evolutionary theory .""",DISAGREE,"""We supposedly evolved from simplistic monkeys to what we are today .""","""Either a gross misunderstanding or a gross misrepresentation of evolutionary theory .""",,
10383,2780,"""We supposedly evolved from simplistic monkeys to what we are today .""","""Either a gross misunderstanding or a gross misrepresentation of evolutionary theory .""",DISAGREE,"""We from monkeys to what we are .""","""misunderstanding or of evolutionary theory .""",,
10385,2781,"""Feel free to repeat any prior arguments you 've made , Chuz ; I welcome this thread as the 'start anew ' you suggested elsewhere . While I 'll probably use the ideas I 've rebutted with before , I 'm quite aware I was n't as accurate in my wording of some posts as I could have been ; so no assumptions of my position on any specifics , please , just as I will ( try to ) make no assumptions of yours . In light of that - and given that it is you who is defending your position - I leave it to you to make your own arguments , rather than have me rebut a possibly misrepresented one . Fire away . NB : This is in the Challenger 's Corner on request from Chuz , not me . As such , I can not guarentee a swift reply - one is highly likely , but not guarenteed . Hopefully this wo n't make much of a difference . Pasted from another thread ;""","""Quote : Originally Posted by Chuz Life ; You have my respect for accepting the challenge , ( my challenge to you to issue this challenge ) IANGB . You also have my respect for defining your disagreement with me in a fair ( almost uncomfortably ) challenging way that considers both our points of views quite nicely . I accept your challenge and ( as you eluded to ) reserve the right to take my time on some of the more challenging responses . If we have to agree to disagree at the end , I hope that we will have had the most informative . intellectually honest and civil discussion possible . And that it serves as an example and benefit to others . Let 's get it on !""",AGREE,"""Feel free to repeat any prior arguments you 've made , Chuz ;""","""Chuz Life ; You have my respect for accepting the challenge""",,
10390,2781,"""Feel free to repeat any prior arguments you 've made , Chuz ; I welcome this thread as the 'start anew ' you suggested elsewhere . While I 'll probably use the ideas I 've rebutted with before , I 'm quite aware I was n't as accurate in my wording of some posts as I could have been ; so no assumptions of my position on any specifics , please , just as I will ( try to ) make no assumptions of yours . In light of that - and given that it is you who is defending your position - I leave it to you to make your own arguments , rather than have me rebut a possibly misrepresented one . Fire away . NB : This is in the Challenger 's Corner on request from Chuz , not me . As such , I can not guarentee a swift reply - one is highly likely , but not guarenteed . Hopefully this wo n't make much of a difference . Pasted from another thread ;""","""Quote : Originally Posted by Chuz Life ; You have my respect for accepting the challenge , ( my challenge to you to issue this challenge ) IANGB . You also have my respect for defining your disagreement with me in a fair ( almost uncomfortably ) challenging way that considers both our points of views quite nicely . I accept your challenge and ( as you eluded to ) reserve the right to take my time on some of the more challenging responses . If we have to agree to disagree at the end , I hope that we will have had the most informative . intellectually honest and civil discussion possible . And that it serves as an example and benefit to others . Let 's get it on !""",AGREE,"""Feel free to repeat any prior arguments you 've made , Chuz ; I welcome this thread as the 'start anew ' you suggested elsewhere . While I 'll probably use the ideas I 've rebutted with before , I 'm quite aware I was n't as accurate in my wording of some posts as I could have been ; so no assumptions of my position on any specifics , please , just as I will ( try to ) make no assumptions of yours .""","""You have my respect for accepting the challenge , ( my challenge to you to issue this challenge ) IANGB . You also have my respect for defining your disagreement with me in a fair ( almost uncomfortably ) challenging way that considers both our points of views quite nicely .""",,
10401,2782,"""Assuming this right exists .... you could say that you have no right to kill it though , you can only try to starve it . -You have consented sex and get pregnant . The pregnancy is a direct consequence that was known when having sex . -You have consented to a stranger coming into your house to eat dinner . The stranger coming in and sitting down and using your plates and eating your food is a direct consequences of you inventing him in for dinner . -If you say you do n't want the unborn to `` live off you `` anymore then the only thing you can do is starve it because you ca n't kill it as it did nothing that it was not allowed to do until just now . -You have decided the stranger must go , however , you do n't have a right to kill him right there as you did n't give him any reasonable time to leave .""","""You could put the stranger out even if they had nowhere to go and it was freezing cold out .""",DISAGREE,"""Assuming this right exists .... you could say that you have no right to kill it though , you can only try to starve it""","""You could put the stranger out even if they had nowhere to go and it was freezing cold out .""",,
10397,2782,"""Assuming this right exists .... you could say that you have no right to kill it though , you can only try to starve it . -You have consented sex and get pregnant . The pregnancy is a direct consequence that was known when having sex . -You have consented to a stranger coming into your house to eat dinner . The stranger coming in and sitting down and using your plates and eating your food is a direct consequences of you inventing him in for dinner . -If you say you do n't want the unborn to `` live off you `` anymore then the only thing you can do is starve it because you ca n't kill it as it did nothing that it was not allowed to do until just now . -You have decided the stranger must go , however , you do n't have a right to kill him right there as you did n't give him any reasonable time to leave .""","""You could put the stranger out even if they had nowhere to go and it was freezing cold out .""",DISAGREE,"""have decided the stranger must go , however , you do n't have a right to kill him right there as you did n't give him any reasonable time to leave .""","""You could put the stranger out even if they had nowhere to go and it was freezing cold out .""",,
10408,2783,"""Which Nat ' l Parks will now allow guns ?""","""Just those in places where CCW is already legal . If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks ... in that state . If you live in Illinois or Wisconsin , you must do like everyone else : call 911 out on the trail , wait for police to find you , then protect you from the rapist who has patiently waited for them to arrive . I ca n't figure it out . This law simply makes it legal for those who have their CCW to carry in Nat ' l parks too . They ALREADY carry everywhere else . The Brady bunch makes it sound like there 's something about the border of a park that will make us drooling , neanderthal gun owners flip our lids .... but just in the park . Why are we perfectly safe everywhere else , but all of a sudden , we 're dangerous ...... in the park ?""",AGREE,"""Which Nat ' l Parks will now allow guns ?""","""If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks""",,
10412,2783,"""Which Nat ' l Parks will now allow guns ?""","""Just those in places where CCW is already legal . If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks ... in that state . If you live in Illinois or Wisconsin , you must do like everyone else : call 911 out on the trail , wait for police to find you , then protect you from the rapist who has patiently waited for them to arrive . I ca n't figure it out . This law simply makes it legal for those who have their CCW to carry in Nat ' l parks too . They ALREADY carry everywhere else . The Brady bunch makes it sound like there 's something about the border of a park that will make us drooling , neanderthal gun owners flip our lids .... but just in the park . Why are we perfectly safe everywhere else , but all of a sudden , we 're dangerous ...... in the park ?""",AGREE,"""Parks""","""Just those in places where CCW is already legal . If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks ... in that state . If you live in Illinois or Wisconsin , you must do""",,
10411,2783,"""Which Nat ' l Parks will now allow guns ?""","""Just those in places where CCW is already legal . If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks ... in that state . If you live in Illinois or Wisconsin , you must do like everyone else : call 911 out on the trail , wait for police to find you , then protect you from the rapist who has patiently waited for them to arrive . I ca n't figure it out . This law simply makes it legal for those who have their CCW to carry in Nat ' l parks too . They ALREADY carry everywhere else . The Brady bunch makes it sound like there 's something about the border of a park that will make us drooling , neanderthal gun owners flip our lids .... but just in the park . Why are we perfectly safe everywhere else , but all of a sudden , we 're dangerous ...... in the park ?""",AGREE,"""Which Nat ' l Parks will now allow guns ?""","""Just those in places where CCW is already legal . If you can carry in your state , you can now carry in Nat ' l parks ... in that state . If you live in Illinois or Wisconsin , you must do like everyone else : call 911 out on the trail , wait for police to find you , then protect you from the rapist who has patiently waited for them to arrive .""",,
10424,2784,"""Thanks Patriot for the well researched response . Although I am not a gun rights advocate , I am also not anti-gun and in the spirit of trying to get the two sides of this issue to reach some sort of understanding , here is what I believe to be the major points of those who support a ban on assult weapons . First of all , I do agree that the definition of assult weapons is a little strange , and it essentially boils down to the guns that look scary . However , the spirit of the law was to try to ban weapons whose main purpose was militaristic in nature . That is , guns that are able to be fired rapidly , have a large magazine , and reasonable stopping power . Thus , although the ban would not eliminate all of the `` dangerous `` weapons ( I assume that an M1 , the rifle that beat the Nazis , would be legal ) it does cover a lot of them . Of course , most 2nd amendment rights supporters would say that all this does n't matter , it does n't matter what purpose the gun serves , it is unconstitutional to infringe upon the rights of Americans to own any gun they want , no matter the purpose . What gun control advocates would say , however , is that the constitution says 'arms ' not guns , and it becomes the job of the goverment to determine what was meant my this . I think that most gun control advocates would agree that the second amendment probably did not intend for people to be able to buy chemical or biological weapons , for example . And , I for one , hope that is not what they meant , particularly in light of the recent war on terrorism . A common remark is `` why would it matter if I had a nuclear weapon if I am a law abiding citizen and would never use it against my neighbor ? `` The problem is that we do n't know what the intention of everyone is , and there are certainly terrorists in this country now who are American citizens and would use such powerful weapons against usif they were able to acquire them . Of course a semi-automatic .223 caliber rifle is not the same as a chemical weapon , but the point is that ( I think ) most people do n't think that you should be able to own absolutely any weapon that you want , so one must attempt to define what is too dangerous for ordinary citizens to own . I do n't think that I covered all of your points , Patriot , but this is getting long , so I will cut this off here , and I hope to get a response from you . I will be interested in your thoughts . -Dan""","""The ban on assault weapons stands on such poltically weak and Constitutionally weak ground that Congress only had the guts and the will to try it for 10 years . It expires this year . The right to own arms is expressly clear . It shall not be infringed by Congress . The federal government is fully empowed to keep arms away from convicted fellons , it does not have the power to limit them from citizens . Those people who `` you do n't know ( what they may do ) `` ? When the government is effective enough to prevent crime or has the power to do so , then we no longer live in a free society . Keep in mind that free choice also allows a person to decide to break the law . It cuts both ways , you can not take away the choice to break laws and allow good citizens truely be free . The only governments through history that have been effective in crime prevention has been tyranically communist countries with extensive secret police . The present people in former communist block countries today are sad to see thier streets full of crime , they recall `` back in the day `` how safe it way to walk down dark streets in saftey . Yes they were safe from criminals , they were not safe from the secret police . The moment the secret police eyed you for real or imagined statistical probability of breaking a crime or become a political enemy , you dissapeared and no one ever saw you alive again . The WMD analogy is poor . You will not find any vendors . Please find another one . There may be Constitutionally poor arguments in favor of banning WMDs for civilians , that argument is moot . You will not find any vendor . The Constitution protects my right to own arms . That does not mean arms vendors must be forced to sell thier product to me if I want one . That argument is moot . The Firearms Act decided that sawed off shot guns and the Thompson machine gun is to be banned from civilian ownership . Early Supreme court DECISIONS support this . Early judicial opinion of the the Firearms act was based on the fact that the Thompson and sawed off shot gun was not a military serviceable weapon and does not apply to the 2nd Amendment . The Thompson and sawed off shotgun were not used by the US Army . Guess what ? The Thompson was adpoted by the Army a few years later . So then , what does that mean ? Judicial opinion is of the direction that military serviceable weapons are protected by the 2nd Amendment . What does that mean for the assault rifle ban ? It means it is on shakey Constitutional ground . Some points I have for you : 1 ) Flash supressor ? Argued by anti-gunners prevent shooters from hiding thier position . Completely false . Flash hiders can hide flash from the target . It 's main purpose is to hide flash from the SHOOTER ! The flash startles the shooter and makes bullets ballistically unstable : `` Excessive muzzle flash happens when unburned powder ignites at the muzzle , causing turbulence behind the bullet with a detrimental effect on accuracy. `` - http : //www.shootingsoftware.com/loadens.htm Flash has more to do with the ammo than the attachment on the end . The Flash hidder ban has lowered target shooting scores more than protecting lives . 2 ) Magazine limit ? Argued by anti-gunners to save lives . Argued to prevent rapid and large expendature of rounds down range upon victims . True , but how often do you hear that ? When it does happen it is national news . The real threat is from guns that contain more 2 less than 4 bullets : http : //ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/2/151 The anti-gunners know this and are comming after your 6 shot revolvers next . They just wanted people to started getting used it to idea of banning bullet capacity . So then . The ban on more than 10 bullets ? It really does not do anything than give a false sense of security . If public policy productive and actally do something , then the ban on 10 bullets is a farce . 3 ) Bayonet ? I can not even fathom a reason to ban them other than emotional reasons . Simly because they look dangerous I suppose is why they are banned . Will someone please let me know ? Public policy should not be based on emotional reasons to be truely good and effective policy . 4 ) Pistol grip ? They make controling an automatic weapon easier to sight on your target . Well then , if you rifle is semi-auto , then what reason is there to ban them ?""",DISAGREE,"""understanding ,""","""The ban on assault weapons to . It is , ? Constitution I judicial opinion that the 2nd Amendment a few . What does that for the you : should""",,
10435,2785,"""Normally an incorrect belief of the world would cause you harm or death ( eg . Thinking that you have to eat dirt as apposed to going to the shops ) , and so wrong theories don ’ t hang about for very long ( as any one that knows them is dead ) .""","""But you are using the word theory incorrectly . Since part of your discussion purports to be about science , one might make the mistake that you are using the word `` theory `` with a scientific connotation . You are not . What you are talking about is folk mythology , not theory .""",DISAGREE,"""wrong theories don ’ t hang about for very long""","""using the word `` theory `` with a scientific connotation . You are not . What you are talking about is folk mythology , not theory .""",,
10433,2785,"""Normally an incorrect belief of the world would cause you harm or death ( eg . Thinking that you have to eat dirt as apposed to going to the shops ) , and so wrong theories don ’ t hang about for very long ( as any one that knows them is dead ) .""","""But you are using the word theory incorrectly . Since part of your discussion purports to be about science , one might make the mistake that you are using the word `` theory `` with a scientific connotation . You are not . What you are talking about is folk mythology , not theory .""",DISAGREE,"""incorrect belief of the world would cause you harm or death any one that knows them is dead""","""Since part of your discussion purports to be about science `` talking about is folk mythology , not theory .""",,
10441,2786,"""I have gone on record to say I think Christianity does a lot of good in the world . I have even tried to correct Matthew in his anti-Christian tirades . ( Until I gave up realizing it would do no good ... )""","""Yet every good deed they do is ruined by their war against us . Until they stop this war upon us , their attacks on our families , and their fight to remove our freedoms through the tyranny of the majority at the ballot box , I will continue to consider them evil , destructive , and enemies of freedom . Remember even Hitler did some good for the German people all the while committing evil acts .""",DISAGREE,"""I have gone on record to say I think Christianity does a lot of good in the world . I have even tried to correct Matthew in his anti-Christian tirades . (""","""every good deed they do is ruined by their war against us . Until they stop this war upon us ,""",,
10443,2786,"""I have gone on record to say I think Christianity does a lot of good in the world . I have even tried to correct Matthew in his anti-Christian tirades . ( Until I gave up realizing it would do no good ... )""","""Yet every good deed they do is ruined by their war against us . Until they stop this war upon us , their attacks on our families , and their fight to remove our freedoms through the tyranny of the majority at the ballot box , I will continue to consider them evil , destructive , and enemies of freedom . Remember even Hitler did some good for the German people all the while committing evil acts .""",DISAGREE,"""I think Christianity does a lot of good in the world . Until I gave up realizing it would do no good""","""Until they stop this war upon us , them evil , destructive , and enemies of freedom""",,
10450,2794,"""since you 're the one who wants the taxpayers to foot the bill for this bull .""","""Actually , if I 'm the one paying for it , then I should be allowed to find a way to make it cost me less . There 's no such thing as a free abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""since you 're the one who wants the taxpayers to foot the bill for this bull .""","""Actually , if I 'm the one paying for it , then I should be allowed to find a way to make it cost me less . There 's no such thing as a free abortion .""",,
10465,2795,"""In some cases , a kind is like a family . Hopefully the site Variation , information and the created kind should be able to answer this question .""","""Then you are just throwing around words without knowing what they mean . Instead you give me a link to a page of pseudoscience . Are those the ones who lied to you ?""",DISAGREE,"""the site Variation , information and the created kind""","""throwing around words without knowing what they mean pseudoscience .""",,
10493,2798,"""Your reasoning of the effects of abortion are correct . The liberals who see abortion as a normal , acceptable , right to choose abortion are aborting themselves into extinction . Reverence , and a love of life is not what motivates Muslims . The power of Islam is . There is nothing to indicate that Muslims `` love `` life . They 'll cut your limbs or head off for nearly any reason . They 'll remove your head with a hacksaw so to take the time for `` you `` the victim to enjoy the moment and to voice your opinion and video it for your family and countrymen to enjoy .""","""How tolerant . Lets talk about the Spanish Inquisition .""",DISAGREE,"""There is nothing to indicate that Muslims `` love `` life .""","""Lets talk about the Spanish Inquisition .""",,
10495,2799,"""I 'm going to play devil 's advocate for a moment . Suppose this expedition had set out and had n't found the transitional fossil . Would we accept this as falsification of the hypothesis on which the prediction was based ? I suspect not , as we know that fossilisation ( in the first instance ) and the uncovering of said fossils ( in the second ) are contingent , not necessary , events . By Popperian criteria , if we would not accept a nil result as falsification , we can not trumpet a positive result as validation .""","""I think reason why the `` hypothesis validated `` card has been played here is because : 1 . The time window for the expected transitional form is about ~20 ma , a narrow window by geological timeframes . Given this the researchers examined the stratigraphic column to select locatities where the rocks were of the corresponding age and selected sites accordingly . 2 . Tiktaalik was expected to live in a certain type of environment , and this expectation was used to further narrow the localities that would be explored as potential deposits for containing the expected `` transitional `` form . 3 . Having selected the locality , expeditions were mounted and successfully recovered remains of the anticipated beastie . Upon analysis it was found to lie in terms of evolutionary development between the most derived/advanced fish and most primitive tetrapods that had been previously known . Given the huge expanse of the Earth 's surface 1 and 2 helped the researchers select comparitively tiny areas to examine and the fact they found what they ( roughly ) expected to find says their hypothesis ( we will find remains of transitional form x at locality y ) was borne out . If no remains had been found then further expeditions might have been successful and the hypothesis could of been validiated at a later date . If they had found , lets say a more primitive form than the previously most advanced fish or a more advanced tetrapod than the previously most primitive form then I think that might amount to a falsifiaction . Having said all that I think that to claim a hypothesis was validated in this instance is slightly confusing as palaeontology is like archeology- you can never be 100 % sure everthing has been found and one small discovery can force a rethink of what that had been established up to that point . Also , IIRC , none of the three articles in nature make any reference to a hypothesis being validated I 'd describe it more as being an expectation being fufilled .""",DISAGREE,"""Would we accept this as falsification of the hypothesis on which the prediction was based ? , if we would not accept a nil result as falsification , we can not trumpet a positive result as validation .""","""to claim a hypothesis was validated in this instance is slightly confusing as palaeontology is like none of the three articles in nature make any reference to a hypothesis being validated I 'd describe it more as being an expectation being fufilled""",,
10524,2803,"""What say you now , Sinjin ?""","""I believe I am on record as not supporting registration of either handguns or long guns as long as NICS checks are conducted for all sales and transfers of ownership records are recoverable from FFL 's with a warrant .""",DISAGREE,"""What say you now , Sinjin ?""","""I am on record as not supporting registration of either handguns or long guns as long as NICS checks are conducted for all sales and transfers of ownership records""",,
10537,2805,"""Fifty-seven percent ( 57 % ) of Americans say gun sales are up in the United States because of a fear of increased government restriction on gun ownership . A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that just 23 % say gun sales have risen because of a fear of increased crime . Twenty-one percent ( 21 % ) are not sure . Sixty-three percent ( 63 % ) of men say the threat of more gun control is behind increased sales , compared to 51 % of women . Fifty-nine percent ( 59 % ) of whites agree , while African-Americans are more closely divided on the question . Similarly , 65 % of Republicans and 66 % of those not affiliated with either major political party say gun sales are up due to a fear of increased government restriction . But a plurality of Democrats agrees by just 10 points . Seventy-one percent ( 71 % ) of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that President Obama will seek tougher gun control laws , including 43 % who say it is very likely . In March , 43 % of Americans said the United States needed more gun control laws , but 47 % disagreed . This marked a slight drop in support for more gun control from last year .""","""For the gun banners who are thinking , you paranoid delusional low lives ! Uh . They have already tried . 57 % Say Gun Sales Up Due To Fear of More Gun Control""",AGREE,"""United States because of a fear of increased government restriction on gun ownership . A new Rasmussen Reports""","""you paranoid delusional low lives ! Uh . They have already tried . 57 % Say Gun Sales Up Due To Fear of More Gun Control""",,
10534,2805,"""Fifty-seven percent ( 57 % ) of Americans say gun sales are up in the United States because of a fear of increased government restriction on gun ownership . A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that just 23 % say gun sales have risen because of a fear of increased crime . Twenty-one percent ( 21 % ) are not sure . Sixty-three percent ( 63 % ) of men say the threat of more gun control is behind increased sales , compared to 51 % of women . Fifty-nine percent ( 59 % ) of whites agree , while African-Americans are more closely divided on the question . Similarly , 65 % of Republicans and 66 % of those not affiliated with either major political party say gun sales are up due to a fear of increased government restriction . But a plurality of Democrats agrees by just 10 points . Seventy-one percent ( 71 % ) of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that President Obama will seek tougher gun control laws , including 43 % who say it is very likely . In March , 43 % of Americans said the United States needed more gun control laws , but 47 % disagreed . This marked a slight drop in support for more gun control from last year .""","""For the gun banners who are thinking , you paranoid delusional low lives ! Uh . They have already tried . 57 % Say Gun Sales Up Due To Fear of More Gun Control""",AGREE,"""Fifty-seven percent ( 57 % ) of Americans say gun sales are up in the United States fear of increased government restriction on gun ownership""","""For the gun banners who are thinking , you paranoid delusional low lives ! They have already tried . 57 % Say Gun Sales Up Due To Fear of More Gun Control""",,
10541,2806,"""& # 8220 ; Americans just aren & # 8217 ; t gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish , & # 8221 ; he said .""","""And they wonder why the science community does n't take them seriously ...""",DISAGREE,"""Americans just aren t gullible enough to believe that they came from a fish ,""","""And they wonder why the science community does n't take them seriously""",,
10543,2807,"""When this occurs , you are much more likely to get misuse of firearms .""","""And how often has this actually occurred ? Maybe there are examples of this actually taking place to warrant it being a problem that needs addressing ? Or is this just your own personal belief ?""",DISAGREE,"""When this occurs , you are much more likely to get misuse of firearms .""","""And how often has this actually occurred ? Maybe there are examples of this actually taking place to warrant it being a problem that needs addressing ? Or is this just your own personal belief ?""",,
10577,2812,"""The god of time and chance , the Almighty IT , is the evolution theory .""","""No , you are mistaken . Evolution is concerned with the change in allele frequency over time .""",DISAGREE,"""the Almighty IT , is the evolution theory .""","""you are mistaken . Evolution is concerned with the change in allele frequency""",,
10582,2813,"""I will not turn this into another debate that often comes up with this issue . But for the sake of clarification can you tell me if you believe it possible that the rights of the being 's inside the mother are being infringed upon ? That is , when do you deem it worthy of protection ? ( I wo n't debate this , I 'm just curious as to your view ) .""","""Actually , I am of the opinion that the fetus has no natural rights of its own . Any rights we grant to a person as a citizen or national are granted at the moment of birth . By granting equal rights to a 3week old fetus that you do to a 20 year old man , you are endangering the rights of the woman who carries that child . Yes , I believe that in most circumstances , the child should be carried to term , but there are exceptions to every rule , and I 'm not quite ready to forsake the lives and health of women to protect unborn children . Yes , I think the unborn child is worthy of protection , but not any more so than the mother , in fact probably less .""",DISAGREE,"""can you tell me if you believe it possible that the rights of the being 's inside the mother are being infringed upon ?""","""I am of the opinion that the fetus has no natural rights of its own .""",,
10606,2818,"""If the child is to be born into a poverty stricken part of the world and is expected to die by the age of 7 by either disease or lack of food , why not spare pain and abort ?""","""Because if you can murder the unborn to prevent its suffering , you can murder the baby to prevent his suffering .""",DISAGREE,"""If the child is to be born into a poverty stricken part of the world and is expected to die by the age of 7 by either disease or lack of food , why not spare pain and abort ?""","""Because if you can murder the unborn to prevent its suffering , you can murder the baby to prevent his suffering .""",,
10621,2821,"""But your way has been tried ZERO times , thank god ... and the current way ( not allowing passengers to bring guns onboard ) has been tried way more times than four ... try millions of times""","""just re-emphasizing""",DISAGREE,"""But your way has been tried ZERO times , thank god ... and the current way ( not allowing passengers to bring guns onboard ) has been tried way more times than four""","""just re-emphasizing""",,
10647,2843,"""I 'm wondering what it implies that God brought each of the animals to Adam and none of them proved to be a suitable `` helper. `` What exactly does that mean , given the activities that seem to have been carried on between Adam and his proper `` helper `` , Eve ?""","""What ? !""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm wondering what it implies that God brought each of the animals to Adam and none of them proved to be a suitable `` helper. ``""","""What ? !""",,
10646,2843,"""I 'm wondering what it implies that God brought each of the animals to Adam and none of them proved to be a suitable `` helper. `` What exactly does that mean , given the activities that seem to have been carried on between Adam and his proper `` helper `` , Eve ?""","""What ? !""",DISAGREE,"""God brought each of the animals to Adam and none of them proved to be a suitable `` helper. ``""","""What ? !""",,
10660,2845,"""http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wood ... oodpecker.html""","""know all about Talk Origins . I was hoping to avoid `` argument by link. `` My hope is to here someone hear actually explain it in their own words , rather than using an evolution propoganda site .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wood ... oodpecker.html""","""know all about Talk Origins . I was hoping to avoid `` argument by link. `` My hope is to here someone hear actually explain it in their own words ,""",,
10667,2846,"""Why is their no option for changing the constitution against the right to bear arms ?""","""Because the 'founding fathers ' were not as foolish and gullible as people like you ( especially , in foreign countries ) to believe that ANY form of government is above the possiblity of tyranny against it 's citizens .""",DISAGREE,"""Why is their no option for changing the constitution against the right to bear arms ?""","""Because the 'founding fathers ' were not as foolish and gullible as people like you""",,
10681,2849,"""as far as i 'm concerned , marriage is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children , thus giving them a better chance of succeeding outside the home . and it does n't always work !""","""Really ? So why do the elderly marry ? Why do those who know they can never convieve children marry ? Why do those who actively refuse to have children marry ? Marriage is in no way `` simply a way of providing a stable home life for children `` at all . Marriage , today , is for compainionship and love .""",DISAGREE,"""marriage is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children""","""Marriage , today , is for compainionship and love .""",,
10686,2849,"""as far as i 'm concerned , marriage is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children , thus giving them a better chance of succeeding outside the home . and it does n't always work !""","""Really ? So why do the elderly marry ? Why do those who know they can never convieve children marry ? Why do those who actively refuse to have children marry ? Marriage is in no way `` simply a way of providing a stable home life for children `` at all . Marriage , today , is for compainionship and love .""",DISAGREE,"""marriage is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children ,""","""Why do those who know they can never convieve children marry ?""",,
10682,2849,"""as far as i 'm concerned , marriage is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children , thus giving them a better chance of succeeding outside the home . and it does n't always work !""","""Really ? So why do the elderly marry ? Why do those who know they can never convieve children marry ? Why do those who actively refuse to have children marry ? Marriage is in no way `` simply a way of providing a stable home life for children `` at all . Marriage , today , is for compainionship and love .""",DISAGREE,"""is simply a way of providing a stable home life for children .""","""a way of providing a stable home life for children .""",,
10690,2850,"""And that 's an observation , is n't it ? Not an assumption . Calling it an assumption was the mistake . Darwin devotes a whole chapter to this .""","""So your only complaint was the use of the word `` assumption ? ``""",AGREE,"""Calling it an assumption was the mistake .""","""So your only complaint was the use of the word `` assumption ?""",,
10692,2851,"""Is there any reason to respond to this guy at all ? If we ignore him , maybe he 'll go away again .""","""What guy and what post ?""",DISAGREE,"""If we ignore him , maybe he 'll go away again .""","""What guy and what post ?""",,
10698,2852,"""Indiana Judge Seeks Medical Records AP A court case in Indiana dealing with government access to the medical records of underage girls is getting attention in Kansas . A superior court judge in Indianapolis yesterday said Planned Parenthood of Indiana must turn over to the state records for its clients under age 14 . He rejected arguments that seizure of the records was an unconstitutional violation of the patients ' privacy . The state attorney general 's office wants to look at the records of 84 patients to see if they had illegal underage sex . Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline is fighting a similar legal battle . He says he needs the records of 90 patients at two abortion clinics Wichita and Overland Park for an investigation into child rape and potentially illegal late-term abortions . http : //www.wibw.com/news/headlines/1597431.html""","""And because of HIPA , this action will not take place .""",AGREE,"""Indiana Judge Seeks Medical Records AP A court""","""HIPA , this action will not take place""",,
10696,2852,"""Indiana Judge Seeks Medical Records AP A court case in Indiana dealing with government access to the medical records of underage girls is getting attention in Kansas . A superior court judge in Indianapolis yesterday said Planned Parenthood of Indiana must turn over to the state records for its clients under age 14 . He rejected arguments that seizure of the records was an unconstitutional violation of the patients ' privacy . The state attorney general 's office wants to look at the records of 84 patients to see if they had illegal underage sex . Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline is fighting a similar legal battle . He says he needs the records of 90 patients at two abortion clinics Wichita and Overland Park for an investigation into child rape and potentially illegal late-term abortions . http : //www.wibw.com/news/headlines/1597431.html""","""And because of HIPA , this action will not take place .""",AGREE,"""He says he needs the records of 90 patients at two abortion clinics Wichita and Overland Park for an investigation into child rape and potentially illegal late-term abortions .""","""And because of HIPA , this action will not take place .""",,
10714,2856,"""yes , but if we can not even observe the effects of such a deity , what difference does it make to man whether such a God exists or not ? for now , i think we can comfortably conclude that this deity , if he exists , doesnt want to have his existence known . furthermore , this deity doesnt seem interested in interacting with mankind in any physical sense . what good is such a God ? whether he exists or not holds absolutely no bearing on reality .""","""Not neccesarily . There may be a maniac hiding in your house . He does n't want his existance known , and you have no evidence he 's there . However , it will have a big impact on your reality when you wander into the room he 's in . Likewise , most modern Gods do n't seem inclined to demonstrate their existance , but most religions say that if you do n't do what their God says , there will be consequences when you die . I would say that if a diety ca n't go out of his way to demonstrate his existance and make clear what he wants , then I 'm not going to change the way I lead my life based on what people who claim to speak for him say . That 's not the same as saying that , if he exists , he does n't have some bearing on reality . We just may not know what it is , or it may only happen after we die .""",DISAGREE,"""but if we can not even observe the effects of such a deity , what difference does it make to man whether such a God exists or not ?""","""We just may not know what it is , or it may only happen after we die .""",,
10723,2872,"""And few people hold that view anymore .""","""Few people literally interpret the Bible anymore ? I 'd like to see the statistics on that .""",DISAGREE,"""few people hold that view anymore""","""I 'd like to see the statistics on that .""",,
10725,2873,"""Rarely has truth ever supported one side of a political movement .""","""I 'm not saying we got it all right""",DISAGREE,"""has truth ever supported one side of a political movement .""","""I 'm not saying we got it all right""",,
10731,2874,"""by this stupidity a KKK mob with guns is a militia !""","""We call that a strawman , here . You have much to learn . Let me explain . A militia is a group of armed , ordinary citizens who gather . There are all these `` militias `` running around screaming that they 're a militia , but if my town was attacked for some reason , the citizens could just get some guns and gather on main street ... to form a militia ! Now do you understand ? If so , I expect you to ignore me . If not , then you 're hopeless . I ca n't get much clearer than that .""",DISAGREE,"""a KKK mob with guns is a militia !""","""A militia is a group of armed , ordinary citizens who gather .""",,
10742,2876,"""1 ) Refuse to comment upon scientific procedures . 1 . ) Refusing to comment on scientific procedure means absolutely nothing . Maybe we do n't have anything to say . But if you have nothing to say , then how can you refute the point . Yet this does n't stop creationists from attempting to refute established scientific facts with misinformation , ignorance and outright lies . 2 ) When faced with hard facts , move the argument to either a emotional ground , or question the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer . 2 . ) Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong . Duo_Maxwell 's point is when creationists are incapable of refuting a fact that disproves their worldview , they switch to non scientific tactics that have nothing to do with the veracity of the scientific theory in an attempt to confuse the issue . Such as you did in another thread when you asked `` WOULD YOU BET YOUR LIFE ON IT ? `` Theories in science are continuously tested and in over 150 years the theory of evolution has NOT been falsified . 3 ) Lie like there is no tomorrow 3 . ) I do n't lie dude . Sure you do , probably due to ignorance , but none the less ...... You said in another thread `` My point exactly . Carbon dating is by no means accurate , there it does not refute creationism. `` Carbon dating and radiometric dating are very accurate . But like any tool , when used improperly , they wo n't give accurate results . But when used properly , they give excellent data . How do we know they are accurate , because they are cross checked , they are verified by other dating methods . Samples that are dated by radiometric dating methods are dated by more than one method before a date is reached . For a sample to be dated by 2 different isotopes and both isotopes are flawed yet give the same date range is simply impossible . Carbon dating ( which is only good for about 50,000 years ) is checked against ice core samples , dendochronology , lake varves , just to name a few other dating methods , and it is virtually always verified . For all these different dating methods to be wrong and still give us the same dates just ca n't happen . 4 ) Refuse to acknowledge anything they simply do n't like 4 . ) Because we do n't give the response you would like is not wrong . No , creationists ignore the data that refutes their points . 5 ) When faced with a point they can not use # 2 on , ignore it completely like it does not exist 5 . ) Do n't think so Then you 've done no research on the subject and have n't read many of the creatinist posts on forums like this one . You did it yourself in the thread where you said this about carbon dating : `` I did n't ignore the quote , I just do n't believe it . There have been many inaccurate test. `` You do n't believe it why ? Have you studied the evidence , do you know how carbon dating works , have you ever carbon dated something and explained the flaws ? No , the only reason you do n't believe it is because it destroys the possiblity of a young earth . You ignore the evidence , sweep it all away with an unsupported `` I do n't believe it `` , that is exactly what point 5 is saying . 6 ) Classical ad-naeseum 6 . ) The only thing classical ad-naeseum is your own preconceived idea's of creationism and creationist . Preconceived ideas ? ! ? You forget that up until 200 years ago , creationism was the accepted model , based on PRECONCEIVED ideas taken from the Bible . But christian geologists started to look at the evidence and found that the earth could not possibly be only a few thousand years old and there never could have been a global flood . And in all the time since , there has been no evidence found that supports a young earth or global flood and mountains of evidence that refute both . Science is n't about preconceived ideas , science is about finding an explaination for the available data , even if that explaination destroys cherished , PRECONCEIVED ideas that are found to be false . So let 's hear what preconceived ideas science has that are refuted by the evidence .........""","""Why is it when Creo 's do n't believe something , Evo 's always think because they have studies or what have you that we Creo 's have to accept it as proof . I mean you do n't accept anything as proof from Creo 's . If Creo 's did some carbon testing and did it accurately and got some anomaly 's , you 'd still reject it . I did n't lie not even by ignorance . I just do n't believe it 's true , but I take it I 'm not allowed my beliefs . What fact has disproved my worldview , my worldview is intact as it ever has been ?""",DISAGREE,"""Sure you do , probably due to ignorance , but none the less""","""I did n't lie not even by ignorance . I just do n't believe it 's true , but I take it I 'm not allowed my beliefs .""",,
10743,2876,"""1 ) Refuse to comment upon scientific procedures . 1 . ) Refusing to comment on scientific procedure means absolutely nothing . Maybe we do n't have anything to say . But if you have nothing to say , then how can you refute the point . Yet this does n't stop creationists from attempting to refute established scientific facts with misinformation , ignorance and outright lies . 2 ) When faced with hard facts , move the argument to either a emotional ground , or question the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer . 2 . ) Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong . Duo_Maxwell 's point is when creationists are incapable of refuting a fact that disproves their worldview , they switch to non scientific tactics that have nothing to do with the veracity of the scientific theory in an attempt to confuse the issue . Such as you did in another thread when you asked `` WOULD YOU BET YOUR LIFE ON IT ? `` Theories in science are continuously tested and in over 150 years the theory of evolution has NOT been falsified . 3 ) Lie like there is no tomorrow 3 . ) I do n't lie dude . Sure you do , probably due to ignorance , but none the less ...... You said in another thread `` My point exactly . Carbon dating is by no means accurate , there it does not refute creationism. `` Carbon dating and radiometric dating are very accurate . But like any tool , when used improperly , they wo n't give accurate results . But when used properly , they give excellent data . How do we know they are accurate , because they are cross checked , they are verified by other dating methods . Samples that are dated by radiometric dating methods are dated by more than one method before a date is reached . For a sample to be dated by 2 different isotopes and both isotopes are flawed yet give the same date range is simply impossible . Carbon dating ( which is only good for about 50,000 years ) is checked against ice core samples , dendochronology , lake varves , just to name a few other dating methods , and it is virtually always verified . For all these different dating methods to be wrong and still give us the same dates just ca n't happen . 4 ) Refuse to acknowledge anything they simply do n't like 4 . ) Because we do n't give the response you would like is not wrong . No , creationists ignore the data that refutes their points . 5 ) When faced with a point they can not use # 2 on , ignore it completely like it does not exist 5 . ) Do n't think so Then you 've done no research on the subject and have n't read many of the creatinist posts on forums like this one . You did it yourself in the thread where you said this about carbon dating : `` I did n't ignore the quote , I just do n't believe it . There have been many inaccurate test. `` You do n't believe it why ? Have you studied the evidence , do you know how carbon dating works , have you ever carbon dated something and explained the flaws ? No , the only reason you do n't believe it is because it destroys the possiblity of a young earth . You ignore the evidence , sweep it all away with an unsupported `` I do n't believe it `` , that is exactly what point 5 is saying . 6 ) Classical ad-naeseum 6 . ) The only thing classical ad-naeseum is your own preconceived idea's of creationism and creationist . Preconceived ideas ? ! ? You forget that up until 200 years ago , creationism was the accepted model , based on PRECONCEIVED ideas taken from the Bible . But christian geologists started to look at the evidence and found that the earth could not possibly be only a few thousand years old and there never could have been a global flood . And in all the time since , there has been no evidence found that supports a young earth or global flood and mountains of evidence that refute both . Science is n't about preconceived ideas , science is about finding an explaination for the available data , even if that explaination destroys cherished , PRECONCEIVED ideas that are found to be false . So let 's hear what preconceived ideas science has that are refuted by the evidence .........""","""Why is it when Creo 's do n't believe something , Evo 's always think because they have studies or what have you that we Creo 's have to accept it as proof . I mean you do n't accept anything as proof from Creo 's . If Creo 's did some carbon testing and did it accurately and got some anomaly 's , you 'd still reject it . I did n't lie not even by ignorance . I just do n't believe it 's true , but I take it I 'm not allowed my beliefs . What fact has disproved my worldview , my worldview is intact as it ever has been ?""",DISAGREE,""") Refusing to comment on scientific procedure means absolutely nothing . Maybe we do n't have anything to say . But if you have nothing to say , then how can you refute the point . Yet this does n't stop creationists from attempting to refute established scientific facts with misinformation , ignorance and outright lies . 2 ) When faced with hard facts , move the argument to either a emotional ground , or question the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer""","""Why is it when Creo 's do n't believe something , Evo 's always think because they have studies or what have you that we Creo 's have to accept it as proof .""",,
10771,2883,"""When you decide to sin - you are making the decision , not God . He is just allowing it to happen . So you do have free will to make your own choices , but God must `` approve `` those choices .""","""if the only choices we can possibly make are the one God approves , then we dont have free will , because we can not free choose the option that God does not approve of , which means we are forced to only choose the options that God approves of . this is not free will""",DISAGREE,"""you do have free will to make your own choices , but God must `` approve `` those choices .""","""if the only choices we can possibly make are the one God approves , then we dont have free will this is not free will""",,
10770,2883,"""When you decide to sin - you are making the decision , not God . He is just allowing it to happen . So you do have free will to make your own choices , but God must `` approve `` those choices .""","""if the only choices we can possibly make are the one God approves , then we dont have free will , because we can not free choose the option that God does not approve of , which means we are forced to only choose the options that God approves of . this is not free will""",DISAGREE,"""When you decide to sin - you are making the decision , not God . He is just allowing it to happen""","""if the only choices we can possibly make are the one God approves , then we dont have free will , because we can not free choose the option that God does not approve of""",,
10778,2885,"""Without guns ? Like guns somehow suddenly stop existing ? The answer would be no , and it 'll always be no .""","""An attempt by you to dodge the main point .""",DISAGREE,"""Like guns somehow suddenly stop existing ?""","""An attempt by you to dodge the main point .""",,
10807,2890,"""Intellegent Design is the study of the idea that certain biological phenomena are too complex to have been evolved from a series of simpler organisms , and therefore must have been created fully functional from the onset . It is based on the idea that if we can observe an organism or an organic function whose existence can not be explained by the successive adaptation of the evolutionary model , then that organism or function is evidence for intelligent design . When intelligent design first emerged , among the long list of examples of irreducibly complex phenomena were the eye , the flagellum and blood clotting . All of these have been shown to have simpler counterparts which also fucntion , and therefore which could have been the evolutionary basis for the emergence of these more complex functions . These examples are summarized in wikipedia 's article Irreducible complexity - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""","""Yes I know , a lot of people have done a lot of work to try to refute Behe ’ s work . From your link ;""",AGREE,"""All of these have been shown to have simpler counterparts which also fucntion ,""","""Yes I know ,""",,
10812,2891,"""Will the real issues in this campaign please stand up ? Instead of these contrived , made-up issues put out by a rightwing magazine .""","""If he lies about being pro-life , what else will he be willing to lie about in order to be elected ? That is a legitimate , not-made-up issue that is relevant to elections .""",AGREE,"""made-up issues put out""","""That is a legitimate , not-made-up issue""",,
10818,2900,"""I 'm glad you made the same correlation I did . ToE is a substitute for # # # # in this case .""","""So you 're saying that the theory of evolution is similar to # # # # , in that they both make large messes when they come into contact with fans ?""",DISAGREE,"""glad you made the same correlation I did""","""So you 're saying that the theory of evolution is similar""",,
10835,2904,"""But someone who has , so to speak , already jumped into the dark can not see this .""","""This must be why you 're determined to raise science onto a pedestal , so you can believe that it 's answers are above us , giving us guidance from above - simply replacing the role of God/church with science .""",DISAGREE,"""But someone who has , so to speak , already jumped into the dark can not see this .""","""This must be why you 're determined to raise science onto a pedestal , so you can believe that it 's answers are above us ,""",,
10840,2905,"""I am not saying what the criminals did was right , but neither was what Mr. Martin did . I have no problem with him killing them both .""","""You do have a problem with this person defending himself or you would not be attacking him . Fear made him do this . The fear was created in him by the buglers . You want unarmed passengers to attack armed terrorists on airplanes , but you have a problem with a home owner killing buglers .""",DISAGREE,"""I am not saying what the criminals did was right , but neither was what Mr. Martin did .""","""You do have a problem with this person defending himself or you would not be attacking him .""",,
10850,2908,"""Look Bell - your point is made .""","""We agree ! Excellent !""",AGREE,"""Look Bell - your point is made .""","""We agree ! Excellent !""",,
10853,2909,"""Gleick in `` Chaos `` talks of a hypothetical about a scientist who is studying a micro-organism . The scientist describes what he sees under the microscope . Other scientists around the world , with the same organism , can make the same observations , and all concur that organism ' x ' behaves in a particular way . Such repeatable observations make their way into the textbooks . It becomes established as 'fact ' . Yet no one realises that when they are observing this organism , in fact , in order to observe it , they shine a light onto the subject . What if the organism reacts with light . How it 'behaves ' when it is observed is only how it behaves 'when ' it is observed .""","""Interesting . Give me an example .""",AGREE,"""How it 'behaves ' when it is observed is only how it behaves 'when ' it is observed .""","""Give me an example""",,
10902,2918,"""# 1 What does a virus have to do with this discussion ? I see in the post above you argue the same thing with clive . Are you for real ? Mach Says : There are trillions of unique living organisms , some possibly hundreds or thousands of years old , living on my bathroom counter , complete with genetic material , etc .. I wipe them down with windex and do n't think twice . What 's the problem here ? Mana'ia says : virus is simply a piece of DNA ( or RNA - Ribonucleic Acid ) that is wrapped in a protein coat . This is called the virus particle . Who said anything about viruses ? Another strawman . Bacteria Mana'ia . Bacteria are living , unique , fully classifiable LIFE , ORGANISMS . # 2 , Again , who is arguing that living cells are not living ? This entire line of reasoning looks to be strawman aimed at pro-choice advocates . Really , who is arguing against the fact that science classifies living cells as living ? # 3 Define distinct any way you like , it 's arbitrary , and irrelevant .""","""I had researched some stuff about viruses that was applicable about life in general because it is the only thing that is not defintely classified . So the argument was about life , the other stuff was just peripheral . Do n't make such a big deal about including other tings in it .""",DISAGREE,"""What 's the problem here ? Mana'ia says : virus is simply a piece of DNA ( or RNA - Ribonucleic Acid ) that is wrapped in a protein coat . This is called the virus particle .""","""I had researched some stuff about viruses that was applicable about life in general because it is the only thing that is not defintely classified .""",,
10906,2919,"""becuase science condridicts what the church has told people . First there was that the earth wasent the center of the universe , that really disturbed the religous institutions of the time . Then geology and evolution which made it obvious that the worlds been around much longer then what is suggested by the bible , and that it wasnet created in such a short time .""","""Let 's give credit where credit is due . Science taught that the world was the centre of the universe . The leading scientists convinced churchmen to take allegorical passages of the Bible and re-interpret them as literal . The ancient Greeks , who were esteemed in Europe as the pre-eminent scientists of their day believed this . They also believed that people were made up of four elements . And taught this . Scientists backed up racism `` No rational man ( writes Thomas Huxley , a contemporary evolutionist ) , cognizant of the facts , believes that the average Negro is the equal , still less the superior , of the white man . And if this be true , it is simply incredible that , when all his disabilities are removed , and our prognathous relative has a fair field and no favor , as well as no oppressor , he will be able to compete successfully with his bigger-brained and smaller-jawed rival , in a contest which is to be carried out on by thoughts and not by bites. `` ( Thomas H. Huxley , `` Lay Sermans , Addresses and Reviews `` ( New York : Appleton , 1871 ) p. 20 . Huxley was arguing that blacks could not compete intellectually with Caucasians , even under equal and fair conditions . ) '' http : //www.goodschools.com/darwin.htm What then is your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""science condridicts what the church has told people . First there was that the earth wasent the center of the universe , that really disturbed the religous institutions of the time""","""Science taught that the world was the centre of the universe . The leading scientists convinced churchmen to take allegorical passages of the Bible and re-interpret them as literal .""",,
10912,2920,"""Let me get this straight , billions and billions of yrs ago nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of absalute kaos complete order , and from this order we went from being frogs to becomeing princes and princesses ? .. Cmon people think about it ! ! Until some one can come to me and provide me something out of nothing that reflects the perfect order in which nature displays today , we all know were we can stick the evolution theory ! ! !""","""Actually , even though you 're made fun of here , your question is quite legitimate . Do n't let the jabs slow you down . It 's precisely because they do n't have an answer to your question , that they make fun of it . It 's a debating tactic . We have nothing in our experience that shows that a `` singularity `` is possible , let alone plausible , but we are told to accept it as a reasonable explanation for the origin of the universe . You can accept it or not , but if you do , you 'll be accepting it on a premise that has no more strength behind it than saying `` because I said so `` . The question then becomes , `` What is the most reasonable explanation , chance or a creator God ? `` The fact is that the singularity theory militates against other accepted theoies of science such as the notion of cause and effect . This is common with evolutionary theory . It has no problem stepping out of the accepted norms of science and crucifying any idea that stands in its way , no matter how vaild that idea may be . After all , evolutionary theory must survive at all costs . It reminds me of the Dark Ages , when the Churuch ruled , only this time the high priests are the `` scientists `` .""",AGREE,"""billions and billions of yrs ago nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of absalute kaos complete order , and from this order we went from being frogs to becomeing princes and princesses ? ..""","""Actually , even though you 're made fun of here , your question is quite legitimate . Do n't let the jabs slow you down .""",,
10911,2920,"""Let me get this straight , billions and billions of yrs ago nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of absalute kaos complete order , and from this order we went from being frogs to becomeing princes and princesses ? .. Cmon people think about it ! ! Until some one can come to me and provide me something out of nothing that reflects the perfect order in which nature displays today , we all know were we can stick the evolution theory ! ! !""","""Actually , even though you 're made fun of here , your question is quite legitimate . Do n't let the jabs slow you down . It 's precisely because they do n't have an answer to your question , that they make fun of it . It 's a debating tactic . We have nothing in our experience that shows that a `` singularity `` is possible , let alone plausible , but we are told to accept it as a reasonable explanation for the origin of the universe . You can accept it or not , but if you do , you 'll be accepting it on a premise that has no more strength behind it than saying `` because I said so `` . The question then becomes , `` What is the most reasonable explanation , chance or a creator God ? `` The fact is that the singularity theory militates against other accepted theoies of science such as the notion of cause and effect . This is common with evolutionary theory . It has no problem stepping out of the accepted norms of science and crucifying any idea that stands in its way , no matter how vaild that idea may be . After all , evolutionary theory must survive at all costs . It reminds me of the Dark Ages , when the Churuch ruled , only this time the high priests are the `` scientists `` .""",AGREE,"""Let me get this straight , billions and billions of yrs ago nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of absalute kaos complete order , and from this order we went from being frogs to becomeing princes and princesses ?""","""Actually , even though you 're made fun of here , your question is quite legitimate . Do n't let the jabs slow you down . It 's precisely because they do n't have an answer to your question , that they make fun of it . It 's a debating tactic""",,
10927,2922,"""Sigh . I knew once I started digging I would unearth NARTH lies ... Let 's start with their claims on the `` twin `` studies , shall we ? From the ACTUAL article they pretend to quote ... Biometric modeling revealed that , in men , genetic effects explained 0.34-0.39 of the variance , the shared environment .00 , and the individual specific environment 0.61-0.66 of the variance .... In men , the full twin model suggested heritability estimates of 39 % for any lifetime same-sex partner ( 95 % CI:00-59 % ) and 34 % for total number of same-sex partners ( 95 CI : 00-53 % ) , whereas unique environmental factors accounted for 61 % Genetic and Environmental Effects on Same-sex Sexual Behavior : A Population Study of Twins in Sweden Also , quoting the author of the study :  “ Overall , genetics accounted for around 35 per cent of the differences between men in homosexual behaviour and other individual-specific environmental factors ( that is , not societal attitudes , family or parenting which are shared by twins ) accounted for around 64 per cent . In other words , men become gay or straight because of different developmental pathways , not just one pathway. ” Homosexual behaviour due to genetics and environmental factors Queen Mary , University of London With no surprise , NARTH lied and tried to down-play the genetic results , whereas the ACTUAL STUDY CONFIRMED genetic contribution to sexual orientation . ================================================== ===================== Addition : I saw NARTH quoted `` townhall.com `` , which is absolutely absurd for any scientific pretense . They reference : `` Prager , D. ( 2005 ) . '' College Taught Her Not To Be a Heterosexual. `` Available on the web at : Townhall.com. `` They did n't give a direct link to the article , and when I looked at the article I realized why ... Dennis Prager : College taught her not to be a heterosexual - Townhall.com The article IS NOT scientific by any pretense . Dennis , an editorialist , interviews ONE WOMAN and from there proclaims this individual 's experiences as `` typical `` and proof of his conclusions on millions of college women . And the funny thing is that Dennis reaches this conclusion IN SPITE OF what this woman actually tells him . This woman describes her life experience , and her interpretation of how she came to be where she is today . Dennis , in his thorough lack of knowledge on homosexuals , presumes to contradict her experience . It 's obvious he had reached his opinion long before the interview , and nothing the woman said was going to sway him . And NARTH ACTUALLY CITES THIS in their `` research `` ? ? ? Yet another reason why I think `` NARTH `` should NEVER be confused with legitimate science . They are an organization formed for political purposes and backed by people with political purposes . Political purposes which EXCLUSIVELY revolve around being anti-gay ...""","""You have not proven any lies .... Sorry , you have not . The studies were done in different countries . AND , since the APA is now also reporting the lack of genetic evidence , obviously there are no lies involved . ARe you aware that in May of this year , ( you should catch up ) the APA has begun changing the language in their papers , related to therapies , causes of homosexuality ? These are professionals , belonging to the APA , including their former presidents and leaders ... Sorry but you are wrong , the paper includes studies from different countries on twins , the facts are it is an `` environmental `` cause not a genetic cause ...... that is what the studies are showing and even the APA is beginning to change it their writing suggesting reparative therapies will work , depending on the cause ... See this : APA 's New Pamphlet on Homosexuality De-emphasizes the Biological Argument , Supports a Client 's Right to Self-Determination""",DISAGREE,"""I started digging I would unearth NARTH lies ... Let 's start with their claims on the `` twin `` studies , shall we ?""","""You have not proven any lies .... Sorry , you have not""",,
10977,2931,"""This is not intended to be a creation evolution debate and I hope folks will refrain from that . I believe that there are characteristics which are solely attributable to humans . Before I post my thoughts I would like to hear others . I do n't wish to influence any answers . So what do you all think . By the Way , `` nothing `` is also a reasonable response , but it will be hard to prove .""","""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ( Time . )""",DISAGREE,"""nothing `` is also a reasonable , but it will be hard to prove .""","""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ( Time . )""",,
10978,2931,"""This is not intended to be a creation evolution debate and I hope folks will refrain from that . I believe that there are characteristics which are solely attributable to humans . Before I post my thoughts I would like to hear others . I do n't wish to influence any answers . So what do you all think . By the Way , `` nothing `` is also a reasonable response , but it will be hard to prove .""","""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ( Time . )""",DISAGREE,"""This is not intended to be a creation evolution debate and I hope folks will refrain from that . I believe that there are characteristics which are solely attributable to humans .""","""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ( Time . )""",,
10982,2931,"""This is not intended to be a creation evolution debate and I hope folks will refrain from that . I believe that there are characteristics which are solely attributable to humans . Before I post my thoughts I would like to hear others . I do n't wish to influence any answers . So what do you all think . By the Way , `` nothing `` is also a reasonable response , but it will be hard to prove .""","""-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ( Time . )""",DISAGREE,"""This is not intended to be a creation evolution debate I believe that there are characteristics which are solely attributable to humans . ,""","""( Time . )""",,
10994,2933,"""Men should n't be deciding because they ca n't get pregnant after being raped . When was the last time a man 's life was ever at risk because his wife was pregnant ?""","""Since when does the fate get decided by the victim ? A woman could be said to have a biased opinion on it because she is an involved party . Even so , I take the stand that no one has any authority over the other to make that decision .""",DISAGREE,"""Men should n't be deciding because they ca n't get pregnant after being raped""","""woman could be said to have a biased opinion on it because she is an involved party .""",,
10997,2934,"""You have n't done anything to prove any of your arguments . Your disagreements with evolution and science are basically `` I do n't buy it , `` you refuse to refute anything we say , you refuse to back your comments with science , you refuse to back anything you come up with except with weak , vague , factless statements . Heck , you even went so far as to ask us if we would bet our lives on carbon dating ! Our personal belief is irrevelant . What matters is proving or disproving the science factually , something you have failed with flying colors to do .""","""So your saying I have no right to disagree unless I can prove and refute evolution and science . Right , you can come back down to earth now . I can disagree with what I want to and no one an explanation , however that was n't my intent . [ quote ] You have the right to defend yourself , but when you resort to comments such as `` get a life `` to socialist , we start ( or merely confirm our existing notions ) that you no idea what you are talking about when you disagree with science and evolution . [ quote/ ] Oh you mean this comment from Socialist , `` I am not considering your points anymore , so In a way I am . I just like making fun of them . It 's entertaining `` . It 's funny how you forgot to include his comment . What scientific answer would you have me give ?""",DISAGREE,"""Your disagreements with evolution and science are basically""","""I can prove and refute evolution and science""",,
11018,2936,"""I wonder how far this is going to go seeing how the polls show that a majority in Mass . is in support of same sex marriage . The anti-gay side feels confident that they have the 50 votes to approve this .""","""They only need 1/4 of the legislature , so they 'll probably get that . But if it actually gets to the polls ? The conservatives took a big hit when they ran around screaming `` If gays get married society will collapse and we 'll all be doomed ! ! ! 11 ! 1 ! ! `` and then nothing happened . And of course the most organized group in Mass . opposing gay marriage is the Mass . Catholic church , and people are n't going to take kindly to a bunch of child rapers telling them what 's right and wrong . The anti-gay side really does n't have much to work with ; it 'll largely be a contest of good will and common sense vs. scare tactics , and the scare tactics have already been proven wrong .""",DISAGREE,"""wonder how far this is going to go the polls show that a majority in Mass . is in support of same sex marriage anti-gay side feels confident that they have the 50 votes to approve this .""","""They only need 1/4 of the legislature , so they 'll probably get that . people are n't going to take kindly to a bunch of child rapers telling them what 's right and wrong . a contest of good will and common sense vs. scare tactics , and the scare tactics have already been proven wrong .""",,
11038,2938,"""A definition is the meaning of word that someone created using their own opinions .""","""How strange . It seems that Habbit 's definition of the word definition is meaningless . Physicists and chemists can define what they mean by the word `` carbon , `` but according to Habbit that is just their opinion . According to Habbit , carbon can be a chocolate candy meant to be eaten in a car . That may be his opinion and he considers it as valid as specific definitions assigned to words used by experts in any given field .""",DISAGREE,"""is the meaning of word that someone created using their own opinions .""","""seems that Habbit 's definition of the word definition is meaningless According to Habbit , carbon can be a chocolate candy meant to be eaten in a car .""",,
11040,2939,"""By Reduction to the Absurd : Suppose that God is in fact all-powerful . If he is all-powerful , then he can do anything . Yet this raises the question , `` If God can do anything , can he make a rock so hard that he himself can not break it ? `` If the answer is yes , then God can not break this rock , so there is something he can not do . If the answer is no , then he can not make such a rock , and thus there is also something he can not do . Therefore , it is impossible that God can do everything , and it is thus impossible for him to be all powerful . I ca n't claim originality for this proof , but I have never heard any good refutation of it , and yet people still act as if God is all powerful despite the absurdity of such a notion . If there is a refutation , then I 'd like to hear it .""","""The question is illogical . By declaring the existence of an all powerful God then saying God can not do something is not a comment on his powerfulness but rather the direct representation of his nature . Your question by its very statement does not test wether or not God is all powerful but wether or not God is comprehensible . See another thread for that topic . The statement that God is all powerful defines his nature . To state then that he can not do something outside of his nature as proof of the non existence of his nature is circular in logic .""",DISAGREE,"""the answer is yes , then God can not break this rock , so there is something he can not do . If the answer is no , then he can not make such a rock , and thus there is also something he can not do , it is impossible that God can do everything , and it is thus impossible for him to be all powerful .""","""his by he as in""",,
11057,2940,"""5 ) Everthing develops simultaniously . Abomination is the result half way through development , species either dies out or reverts to former self .""","""But it has never been claimed that everything developet simultaneously . Probably not . So back to the original question that you ducked with ad hoc arguments . What is Archaeopteryx . If it is a bird , why does it have a tail , grastalia , teeth , pre-orbital fenestra , and on and on . If it is n't a bird then why does it have feathers , opposable hallux , pneumatic bones , a furcula , and even a small carina in one specimen ? How can creationism explain Archaeopteryx ? http : //home.houston.rr.com/bybayouu/ ... graphica_1.jpg""",DISAGREE,"""Everthing develops simultaniously""","""that everything developet simultaneously""",,
11070,2944,"""Yes , 1 ) It 's against Gods Law-an Abomination . 2 ) God loves the gay people but hates the Sin- there is help- I can get any gay person in contact with someone who used to be gay and has been set free and he will be willing to help , just let me know and i will get his websight to you and his phone number if you like . 3 ) Jesus loves you and you still have a chance to have questions answered that no one in the secular world can answer .""","""But in terms of legality and constitutionality , do you believe that they should still be prohibited ? Also , how can god hate ? I thought he was true love . Scratch that -- I thought he was unknowable . Thanks""",DISAGREE,"""It 's against Gods Law-an Abomination . 2 ) God loves the gay people but hates the Sin- there is help- I can get any gay person in contact with someone who used to be gay and has been set free and he will be willing to help""","""But in terms of legality and constitutionality , do you believe that they should still be prohibited ? Also , how can god hate ? I thought he was true love .""",,
11089,2955,"""Parallels that Are n't Parallel The key question in any slippery slope appeal is whether the two situations are truly similar in a morally relevant way . If not , then the illustration is guilty of a logical slippery slope fallacy . The analogy fails and the argument falls apart . Are there important differences between pregnancy and kidnapping ? Yes , many . First , the violinist is artificially attached to the woman . A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights . We have a right to defend ourselves against maniacs even if it is natural for them with their mental condition to want to kill us .""",DISAGREE,"""mother 's unborn baby , baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights""",,
11087,2955,"""Parallels that Are n't Parallel The key question in any slippery slope appeal is whether the two situations are truly similar in a morally relevant way . If not , then the illustration is guilty of a logical slippery slope fallacy . The analogy fails and the argument falls apart . Are there important differences between pregnancy and kidnapping ? Yes , many . First , the violinist is artificially attached to the woman . A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights . We have a right to defend ourselves against maniacs even if it is natural for them with their mental condition to want to kill us .""",DISAGREE,"""Are there important differences between pregnancy and kidnapping ? Yes , many . First , the violinist is artificially attached to the woman . A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights . We have a right to defend ourselves against maniacs even if it is natural for them with their mental condition to want to kill us .""",,
11091,2955,"""Parallels that Are n't Parallel The key question in any slippery slope appeal is whether the two situations are truly similar in a morally relevant way . If not , then the illustration is guilty of a logical slippery slope fallacy . The analogy fails and the argument falls apart . Are there important differences between pregnancy and kidnapping ? Yes , many . First , the violinist is artificially attached to the woman . A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights . We have a right to defend ourselves against maniacs even if it is natural for them with their mental condition to want to kill us .""",DISAGREE,"""whether the two situations are truly similar in a morally relevant way""","""It is unclear how this 'natural argument fits in with the concept of rights""",,
11097,2956,"""the problem then is , how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ( no time , no matter , no space , no energy ) ? what could possibly trigger the universe 's beginning ? ( and then of course , where did these triggering events come from ? ) you will end up at negative infinity at some point""","""I think the currently popular belief is that time itself is limited . Space , time , energy , matter and laws all came into existence together . Of course that 's impossible for us to envisage ....""",AGREE,"""how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ( no time , no matter , no space , no energy""","""Space , time , energy , matter and laws all came into existence together""",,
11094,2956,"""the problem then is , how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ( no time , no matter , no space , no energy ) ? what could possibly trigger the universe 's beginning ? ( and then of course , where did these triggering events come from ? ) you will end up at negative infinity at some point""","""I think the currently popular belief is that time itself is limited . Space , time , energy , matter and laws all came into existence together . Of course that 's impossible for us to envisage ....""",AGREE,"""how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ( no time , no matter , no space , no energy ) ? what could possibly trigger the universe 's beginning ?""","""I think the currently popular belief is that time itself is limited . Space , time , energy , matter and laws all came into existence together .""",,
11096,2956,"""the problem then is , how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ( no time , no matter , no space , no energy ) ? what could possibly trigger the universe 's beginning ? ( and then of course , where did these triggering events come from ? ) you will end up at negative infinity at some point""","""I think the currently popular belief is that time itself is limited . Space , time , energy , matter and laws all came into existence together . Of course that 's impossible for us to envisage ....""",AGREE,"""how could the universe begin in the midst of absolutely nothing ?""","""Of course that 's impossible for us to envisage ....""",,
11139,2963,"""So many questions arise in the study of fossils ( paleontology ) that even many evolutionary paleontologists put little stock in the fossil record . Basing one 's belief in evolution on the shaky ground of paleontology can scarcely be considered scientific.35 `` We are about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded . We now have a quarter of a million species but the situation has n't changed much . The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and , ironically , we have fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin 's time. `` - Dr. David M. Raup , Curator of Geology , Museum of Natural History , Chicago14 ( http : //www.straight-talk.net/evolution/fossil.htm )""","""Gee , gives the impression that Dr. David M. Raup , Curator of Geology , Museum of Natural History , Chicago , puts little stock in the fossil record and rejects evolution , helping support the preceding assertion that surely one ’ s belief in evolution based on paleontology can scarcely be considered scientific . But that ’ s not at all what Dr. Raup was stating . While Googling for a fuller quote , I ran across a page that showed how this – and many other – statements by Dr. Raup were distorted by Creationists . To start with , here is a fuller quote :""",DISAGREE,"""So many questions arise in the study of fossils ( paleontology ) that even many evolutionary""","""Gee , gives the impression that Dr. David M. Raup , Curator of Geology ,""",,
11153,2966,"""The movement to teach YEC is non existant .""","""Right . It was thrown out of schools back in the 1960s , and again in the 1980s when attempts were made to dress creationism up in the jargon of science and call it `` Creation science. ``""",AGREE,"""The movement to teach YEC is non existant .""","""It was thrown out of schools back in the 1960s""",,
11164,2968,"""I think its pretty obvious ............ I would say judging by his statement he is against the death penalty .............""","""Well you never know cause your pro life and for the death penalty .""",DISAGREE,"""I think its pretty obvious ............ I would say judging by his statement he is against the death penalty .............""","""Well you never know cause your pro life and for the death penalty .""",,
11180,2972,"""The problem with this is that usually when someone exercises `` their right `` it many times infringes on someones elses rights .""","""Do n't even think about contriving how gay marrige violates YOUR RIGHTS assmonkey . That 's the most ludicrous , inane statement I have yet heard from the Religious Right .""",DISAGREE,"""it many times infringes on someones elses rights .""","""how gay marrige violates YOUR RIGHTS assmonkey""",,
11188,2975,"""If Obama had his way , standing against the government would be the most patriotic thing someone could do .""","""Are we talking about the same Obama here ? The same one , who 's head of the DHS , told law enforcement to be on the lookout for anyone who disagreed with the government ?""",DISAGREE,"""If Obama had his way , standing against the government would be the most patriotic thing someone could do .""","""Are we talking about the same Obama here ?""",,
11200,2984,"""Then why do you believe in it ?""","""Believe in what ? If it helps - God 's love surpasses all logic . I have complete proof that God exists . From that point onward there is no need to argue with things that are deemed as logical . To me there 's more to life than the logical things .""",DISAGREE,"""why do you believe it ?""","""in ? If it God 's love all . I have that God exists . that point is no need to with things that are more to life than""",,
11199,2984,"""Then why do you believe in it ?""","""Believe in what ? If it helps - God 's love surpasses all logic . I have complete proof that God exists . From that point onward there is no need to argue with things that are deemed as logical . To me there 's more to life than the logical things .""",DISAGREE,"""Then why do you believe in it ?""","""If it helps - God 's love surpasses all logic . I have complete proof that God exists .""",,
11201,2985,"""As there are likely none here into Objectivism , I thought you would appreciate being pointed to a place where you could discuss it .""","""So you 're saying your unwilling to discuss it , and you think that an oblique ad hominem ( fitting in with nut cases ) is a way to progress this topic ?""",DISAGREE,"""likely none here into Objectivism you would appreciate being pointed""","""saying your unwilling to discuss it way to progress this topic ?""",,
11217,2988,"""It 's all political . Science has all kinds of political ramifications . If the atheists can successfully steer people away from God , they can get them voting for the abortion-loving , tax-raising , American-hating party known as the Communists -- er -- Democrats .""","""I will let Peeling address this . But seriously , do you truly believe that scientists are this great cabal whose ultimate purpose is to steer the political process in a more liberal direction ? To what end ? Are conservatives more unwilling to fund science , is that your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""Science has all kinds of political ramifications . If the atheists can successfully steer people away from God , they can get them voting for the abortion-loving , tax-raising , American-hating party known as the Communists -- er -- Democrats .""","""do you truly believe that scientists are this great cabal whose ultimate purpose is to steer the political process in a more liberal direction ? Are conservatives more unwilling to fund science , is that your point ?""",,
11218,2988,"""It 's all political . Science has all kinds of political ramifications . If the atheists can successfully steer people away from God , they can get them voting for the abortion-loving , tax-raising , American-hating party known as the Communists -- er -- Democrats .""","""I will let Peeling address this . But seriously , do you truly believe that scientists are this great cabal whose ultimate purpose is to steer the political process in a more liberal direction ? To what end ? Are conservatives more unwilling to fund science , is that your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""Science has all kinds of political ramifications""","""do you truly believe that scientists are this great cabal whose ultimate purpose is to steer the political process in a more liberal direction ?""",,
11247,2994,"""What do you mean by call the shots ? I think a mother should be able to cease providing for a child/fetus at any age , but also should not be able to kill it at any age . I do n't think time with regards to pregnancy is a relevant dimension . Realistically this means a mother can decide whether her child lives or not up until some point in the 3rd trimester , since its around then a fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb . This is of course , dependent on technology .""","""Well since posting on this thread has died and this seems to me to be the most interesting atheistic theory , I want to get a bit of clarification . First , what do you mean by being allowed to cease providing for it at any age , but never allowed to kill it ? By this do you mean that to cease providing for during the first trimester is not killing it ? Is that because it is not alive at that time ? If I follow you ( and I 'm not sure I do ) should the mother be allowed to have the baby removed at some point during the third trimester , after which it must be kept alive ( and perhaps put up for adoption ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""I think a mother should be able to cease providing for a child/fetus at any age , but also should not be able to kill it at any age . this means a mother can decide whether her child lives or not up until some point in the 3rd trimester""","""Well since posting on this thread has died and this seems to me to be the most interesting atheistic theory""",,
11246,2994,"""What do you mean by call the shots ? I think a mother should be able to cease providing for a child/fetus at any age , but also should not be able to kill it at any age . I do n't think time with regards to pregnancy is a relevant dimension . Realistically this means a mother can decide whether her child lives or not up until some point in the 3rd trimester , since its around then a fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb . This is of course , dependent on technology .""","""Well since posting on this thread has died and this seems to me to be the most interesting atheistic theory , I want to get a bit of clarification . First , what do you mean by being allowed to cease providing for it at any age , but never allowed to kill it ? By this do you mean that to cease providing for during the first trimester is not killing it ? Is that because it is not alive at that time ? If I follow you ( and I 'm not sure I do ) should the mother be allowed to have the baby removed at some point during the third trimester , after which it must be kept alive ( and perhaps put up for adoption ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""What do you mean by call the shots ? I think a mother should be able to cease providing for a child/fetus at any age , but also should not be able to kill it at any age .""","""Well since posting on this thread has died and this seems to me to be the most interesting atheistic theory , I want to get a bit of clarification . First , what do you mean by being allowed to cease providing for it at any age , but never allowed to kill it ?""",,
11263,2998,"""did you know that 4000 years ago the oceans were over 100 feet higher than they are now ? Places like Lake champlain were an inland sea , and all of florida was submerged ( it 's a really big , old coral reef ) ?""","""Source ?""",DISAGREE,"""4000 years ago the oceans were over 100 feet higher than they are now""","""Source ?""",,
11278,3003,"""that you cherry-pick just that evidence which seems to support your preconceptions rather than critically applying your hypothesis to all the available evidence ,""","""* * Not true . I most certainly do apply EAM to all empirical observations of biological originality , just to see if it still applies . To date , it always has . As for darwinian interpretations of that same evidence , presenting them and defending them is your responsibility , not mine .""",DISAGREE,"""cherry-pick just that evidence critically applying your hypothesis""","""certainly do apply EAM see if it still applies""",,
11286,3006,"""Common sense says that if we are all on a downhill slide that mutation/selection – being the conservative/degenerative devicees that they are -- could have never have explained the origin of anything . Our genomes could not have arisen spontaneously . Instead , our genomes were designed by a designer .""","""You believe two things that are incorrect : that you have refuted evolutionary theory , and that we will now accept intellegent design because of your attempt .""",DISAGREE,"""downhill slide that origin of anything , genomes were designed by a designer""","""refuted evolutionary theory , intellegent design""",,
11294,3008,"""After all , a 2 day old baby is no more valuable or independent potentially speaking than an unborn child is 2 days before it 's born , but the 2 day old child has all of the rights that you have to life .""","""So does the 2 day before birth unborn child because it is in the third trimester . I as in what you have come to know as ME was born somewhere in the third trimester . The body that I 'm sitting in this chair with and typing this with was born at conception , and started as a sperm before conception .""",DISAGREE,"""2 day old baby is no more valuable or independent potentially speaking than an unborn child is 2 days before it 's born , but the 2 day old child has all of the rights that you have to life .""","""The body that I 'm sitting in this chair with and typing this with was born at conception , and started as a sperm before conception .""",,
11340,3019,"""`` Besides , our population should decrease . Either that , or people should consume far less. ``""","""Your opinion . Okay .""",DISAGREE,"""Besides , our population should decrease . Either that , or people should consume far""","""Your opinion . Okay .""",,
11356,3022,"""the baby belongs to GOD , the mother the dr. and any one else involved are condemned , yu see its called murder , purely in the first degree .""","""I think you are the same person as usa all the way and again .. you have no right to talk about murder because you murder the english language everytime you post . And no .. the baby does not belong to god because there is no baby and I do n't know if there is a god or not . Btw .. I 'm not going to incubate something in my body because of you think it 's wrong because someone who may or may not exist said so .""",DISAGREE,"""the baby belongs to GOD and its called murder""","""the and you have no right to talk about murder because you murder the english language everytime you post baby does not belong to god because there is no baby""",,
11361,3023,"""An evolutionary mutation of a gene is : a new and useful gene that never b4 existed , bring new body structures and functions that never b4 existed .""","""Actually , there is no such thing as `` an evolutionary mutation of a gene. `` A mutation is a mutation . For evolution to have occurred requires neither that a mutation be new nor useful and they do n't require new structures nor structures . Here 's a little mental exercise for you . At most , a person can have only two alleles for any gene . This would have been the condition of the human race 6,000 years ago according to creationists . It would not have been possible for there to be more than 2 alleles for any given gene . Now consider that for every gene in the human genome there is an average of 14 different alleles , sometimes more , sometimes less . Where did all of those alleles come from ?""",DISAGREE,"""An evolutionary mutation of a gene is : a new and useful gene that never b4 existed , bring new body structures and functions that never b4 existed .""","""Actually , there is no such thing as `` an evolutionary mutation of a gene. `` A mutation is a mutation .""",,
11374,3025,"""The only stupid question is the unasked one .""","""And many of the questions that creationists ask .""",DISAGREE,"""stupid question unasked one""","""creationists ask""",,
11382,3027,"""It is actually quite simple . The question is `` When can a woman kill the fetus ? '' . I would say that , if it is out of her body , then none of her critical rights are being violated and she has no right to kill it .""","""I think you have already answered your own question .""",AGREE,"""I would say that , if it is out of her body , then none of her critical rights are being violated and she has no right to kill it .""","""I think you have already answered your own question .""",,
11396,3029,"""Originally posted by American Where did the dirt come from ?""","""Well , the short version is that shortly after the big bang , the universe was filled by a hot quark plasma . As it expanded and cooled , the process of nucleosynthesis produced the primordial elemental abundance , primarily hydrogen , with some deutirium , helium , and lithium . The physics is well understood , and verified by observation . Quantifying uncertainties in primordial nucleosynthesis without Monte Carlo simulations At roughly a billion years of age , stars and galaxies formed , some fraction of the stars that formed were massive supergiants , that burned up their hydrogen into other elements , up to the atomic number of iron . This occurred at a tremendous rate and in a few more billion years , these stars went supernova and exploded . Prior to going supernova , these stars go through a phase where the outer layers of the star are shed , providing ways to transport the lighter elements away from the star . You can see this in the following link : Hubble Chemically Analyzes the Ring around Supernova 1987A The trememdous radiation of the supernova permits the formation of elements with atomic numbers higher than iron . The force of these explosions scattered the newly created elements , creating vast gas and dust clouds . Eventually , the shockwave of another explosion initiated the collapse of one of these clouds , and the spinning hydrogen cloud begins to heat , eventually initiating nuclear fusion , and becoming our sun . As the sun began to increase it 's heat output , the volatile remains of the accretion disk are driven away from the inner portion of the solar system , leaving mostly heavy elments . Comets bombarded the inner solar system , transporting water , carbon , and amino acids to the newly forming earth , making dirt . In short , a truely wonderful creation .""",DISAGREE,"""Where did the dirt come from""","""Well , the short version is that shortly after the big bang , Quantifying uncertainties force of explosions In short , a truely wonderful creation""",,
11410,3031,"""The main creationist lie is that people use evolution in our current society as an excuse to do bad things . Sorry folks I have never met somebody that does this so bringing it up just convinces me you are a liar .""","""The comment of someone with an IQ of about 48 . Ray M .""",DISAGREE,"""The main creationist lie is that people use evolution in our current society as an excuse to do bad things .""","""The comment of someone with an IQ of about 48""",,
11432,3036,"""Perhaps our anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme would be a crime fighting measure or have anything to do with anti-terrorism ?""","""Oh they think they can Doc ! They think that we gun owners are the terrorist ! Personally . I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad . They are MAD that a Black Man ! Is in the White House !""",AGREE,"""anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme would be a crime fighting measure or have anything to do with anti-terrorism ?""","""I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad""",,
11433,3036,"""Perhaps our anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme would be a crime fighting measure or have anything to do with anti-terrorism ?""","""Oh they think they can Doc ! They think that we gun owners are the terrorist ! Personally . I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad . They are MAD that a Black Man ! Is in the White House !""",AGREE,"""Perhaps our anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme""","""I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad""",,
11435,3036,"""Perhaps our anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme would be a crime fighting measure or have anything to do with anti-terrorism ?""","""Oh they think they can Doc ! They think that we gun owners are the terrorist ! Personally . I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad . They are MAD that a Black Man ! Is in the White House !""",AGREE,"""Perhaps our anti-rights advocates can explain how this wild scheme would be a crime fighting measure or have anything to do with anti-terrorism ?""","""think that we gun owners are the terrorist ! Personally . I think that all of this talk about Gun Control is happening because they are mad .""",,
11440,3037,"""Can someone explain to me how Noah took mosquitoes on the ark ? Those abominations need sitting water to hatch and develop . A boat being toss around like a toy is hardly going to have pools of sitting water . Plus what did all of the insectivores eat for 40 days ?""","""Actually , the storm lasted for 40 days and 40 nights . The ark was actually afloat for a year or so . So I guess the answer is that the ark had all kinds of pestilent insects winging about and biting and stinging the occupants . The problem is , how did these aquatic breeders actually propagate in the feces and urine infested bilge of the ark ?""",AGREE,"""Can someone explain to me how Noah took mosquitoes on the ark ? Those abominations need sitting water to hatch and develop""","""The problem is , how did these aquatic breeders actually propagate in the feces and urine infested bilge of the ark ?""",,
11449,3039,"""It 's simple , really . This grand experiment in self rule and governing was based on the ideals of many of the world 's great phiosophers . Make no mistake , many of the framers of our laws were voracious readers of history and world governments through the years , and as such , realized quite early , laws , outlining the functions of government , needed to be spelled out as much as possible to ensure that government was fair and equitable for all .""","""So the founding fathers and their work is basicy viewed as an authority based on their competence ?""",DISAGREE,"""This grand experiment in self rule and governing was based on the ideals of many of the world 's great phiosophers .""","""So the founding fathers and their work is basicy viewed as an authority based""",,
11461,3041,"""Yep . This is a good thing , might as well make use of a dead person . Too bad we ca n't experiment on dead human bodies w/o permission . It would benefit society a lot more if we could .""","""And LIVING ones even more ... ok Adolph .""",DISAGREE,"""Too bad we ca n't experiment on dead human bodies w/o permission .""","""And LIVING ones even more""",,
11466,3042,"""I am by nature and training and experience argumentative . Its a way of life .""","""just curious ... what do you do for a living ?""",DISAGREE,"""I am by nature and training and experience argumentative""","""just curious ... what do you do for a living ?""",,
11486,3045,"""Sorry , but I have to say this . Who the hell gives a flaming turd what Freud thought ? He was a coke head quack who pulled a bunch of bunk out of his butt and called it psychotherapy . ..""","""Many Atheists I have encountered call God a human effort in wish fullfillment . THat seeking God and salvation through Jesus Christ is an illusion . Many of these folks are quoting Freud whether they know it or not . Ha ! In the end , he was a Theist !""",DISAGREE,"""Who the hell gives a flaming turd what Freud thought ?""","""Many of these folks are quoting Freud whether they know it or not .""",,
11492,3046,"""Prove it ! You ca n't , until we go on for at least a month without some SOB grabbing his damn gun and offing people . That will never happen .""","""I 'd rather be `` offed `` than to live with a wild eyed screaming banshee like yourself setting policy and demanding impossible tasks . Are the police SOB 'S too ? I do n't suppose you would object to the friendly neighborhood rapist getting shot by a gun owning neighbor now would you ?""",DISAGREE,"""until we go on for at least a month without some SOB grabbing his damn gun and offing people .""","""I 'd rather be `` offed `` than to live with a wild eyed screaming banshee like yourself setting policy and demanding impossible tasks .""",,
11490,3046,"""Prove it ! You ca n't , until we go on for at least a month without some SOB grabbing his damn gun and offing people . That will never happen .""","""I 'd rather be `` offed `` than to live with a wild eyed screaming banshee like yourself setting policy and demanding impossible tasks . Are the police SOB 'S too ? I do n't suppose you would object to the friendly neighborhood rapist getting shot by a gun owning neighbor now would you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Prove it ! You ca n't until we go on for at least a month SOB grabbing his damn gun and offing people That will never happen .""","""I 'd rather be `` offed `` than to live with a wild eyed screaming banshee like yourself demanding impossible tasks Are the police SOB 'S too ? I do n't suppose you would object to the friendly neighborhood rapist getting shot by a gun owning neighbor now would you ?""",,
11495,3047,"""Have you ever had an abortion ?""","""Good point . Touche . Though lots of folks have not had abortions . Certainly most men have not . I was just growing tired of a certain little poster 's uninformed opinions of sexual activity . My post was intended to be a little playful . If it missed the mark , mea culpa .""",AGREE,"""Have you ever had an abortion ?""","""Good point . Touche . Though lots of folks have not had abortions . Certainly most men have not .""",,
11500,3048,"""The critical factor here is punishing women . Women must be punished . For whatever strikes the fancy of Cybererratus .""","""I thought the critical factors were ( are ) ; a : When does a child 's life begin ? b : When does a new child 's rights begin ? c : What are the possible justifications for denying the rights of the new child ( if any ) ? d : What ( if any ) should the punishment be for violating the child 's rights by killing him or her unjustly ? Can we not ( at least ) agree on what the `` critical factors `` are ? If not , is n't all subsequent debate destined to be non-productive ?""",DISAGREE,"""Women must be punished""","""Can we not ( at least ) agree on what the `` critical factors `` are ? If not , is n't all subsequent debate destined to be non-productive ?""",,
11505,3048,"""The critical factor here is punishing women . Women must be punished . For whatever strikes the fancy of Cybererratus .""","""I thought the critical factors were ( are ) ; a : When does a child 's life begin ? b : When does a new child 's rights begin ? c : What are the possible justifications for denying the rights of the new child ( if any ) ? d : What ( if any ) should the punishment be for violating the child 's rights by killing him or her unjustly ? Can we not ( at least ) agree on what the `` critical factors `` are ? If not , is n't all subsequent debate destined to be non-productive ?""",DISAGREE,"""critical factor here is punishing women""","""When does a child 's life begin ? When does a new child 's rights begin ? What are the possible justifications for denying the rights of the new child ( if any ) ? What ( if any ) should the punishment be for violating the child 's rights by killing him or her unjustly ? Can we not ( at least ) agree on what the `` critical factors `` are ?""",,
11516,3050,"""It is in the Bible , which is the inspired word of God . It is presented as an actual event - as opposed to an allegorical or metaphorical tale . Therefore it is true .""","""Ca n't argue with this illogic .""",DISAGREE,"""It is in the Bible , which is the inspired word of God""","""Ca n't argue with this illogic .""",,
11525,3052,"""Think of what our country would have become over the last 100 years without an armed government .""","""Then they can seek permission from us to arm themselves , and only for official duties that require it . Afterwards they can just turn them in and go back to being in their proper place .""",DISAGREE,"""Think of what our country would have become over the last 100 years without an armed government .""","""Then they can seek permission from us to arm themselves , and only for official duties that require it .""",,
11537,3055,"""Removal of body parts by whatever means does not change the dna of the rest of the body . The sperm cells and eggs are not affected by the loss of unrelated body parts .""","""I know that . I asked those questions to show how dumb and ridiculous unkerpaulies question was - took it to other examples where such a question is obviously ridiculous to illustrate the ridiculousness of his question .""",DISAGREE,"""The sperm cells and eggs are not affected by the loss of unrelated body parts .""","""I know that .""",,
11536,3055,"""Removal of body parts by whatever means does not change the dna of the rest of the body . The sperm cells and eggs are not affected by the loss of unrelated body parts .""","""I know that . I asked those questions to show how dumb and ridiculous unkerpaulies question was - took it to other examples where such a question is obviously ridiculous to illustrate the ridiculousness of his question .""",DISAGREE,"""Removal of body parts by whatever means does not change the dna of the rest of the body .""","""I know that .""",,
11559,3061,"""The definitions : The actual law : As should be plainly obvious , this is an almost total ban on all semi-automatic weapons in the City of Columbus , not just those that have been traditionally considered 'assault weapons ' ( automatic firearms ) . Note definition ( L ) ( 2 ) . Almost every semi-automatic pistol is included in that definition . Whether an all-out ban on guns is good or bad ( or constitutional ) , or an assault-weapons ban is good or bad ( or constitutional ) , it should be obvious to any reader that the Columbus city council is trying to push through an all-out ban on guns by calling this an assault weapons ban .""","""-- -- -- -- At first glance this statute seems to merely track the now-expired federal AW ban , and I would watch out to see if its supporters are selling it as such . It is in reality far more restrictive than the expired federal ban ! I don ’ t know if it is being sold as merely a  “ common sense state enactment of the old federal ban that expired and no longer protects us ,  ” but if it is , then here is why that argument is fraudulent : The old federal ban was far less restrictive because it defined an AW ( in addition to some firearms deemed automatically an AW ) as having 2 or more of the cosmetic features , while this new statute says it needs only 1 cosmetic feature . That is a significant difference which allows this proposed law to capture many more firearms than the old federal ban . It looks like the old federal ban definitions were used as a template for this new statute , but whoever wrote it decided to change it down to 1 offending cosmetic feature knowing full well it would ban far more firearms . If I were you I would let my legislator know this difference . For comparison , here are the AW definitions from the old federal AW ban : 18 U.S.C . § 921 is a listing of how terms are defined in the firearms offenses portion of the Code , and it defines a federally banned AW as follows : ( 30 ) The term `` semiautomatic assault weapon `` means - ( A ) any of the firearms , or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber , known as - ( i ) Norinco , Mitchell , and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs ( all models ) ; ( ii ) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil ; ( iii ) Beretta Ar70 ( SC-70 ) ; ( iv ) Colt AR-15 ; ( v ) Fabrique National FN/FAL , FN/LAR , and FNC ; ( vi ) SWD M-10 , M-11 , M-11/9 , and M-12 ; ( vii ) Steyr AUG ; ( viii ) INTRATEC TEC-9 , TEC-DC9 and TEC-22 ; and ( ix ) revolving cylinder shotguns , such as ( or similar to ) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12 ; ( B ) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - ( i ) a folding or telescoping stock ; ( ii ) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon ; ( iii ) a bayonet mount ; ( iv ) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor ; and ( v ) a grenade launcher ; ( C ) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - ( i ) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip ; ( ii ) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender , flash suppressor , forward handgrip , or silencer ; ( iii ) a shroud that is attached to , or partially or completely encircles , the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned ; ( iv ) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded ; and ( v ) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm ; and ( D ) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of - ( i ) a folding or telescoping stock ; ( ii ) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon ; ( iii ) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds ; and ( iv ) an ability to accept a detachable magazine . ( 4 ) for any person , other than a licensed importer , licensed manufacturer , licensed dealer , or licensed collector , to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device , machinegun ( as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 ) [ this being the tie-in to the NFA tax ban on machine guns ] Note , by the way , that these definitions still exist in the US Code and have NOT been repealed or have expired . What expired was a portion of another statute , which made it a crime to possess these weapons . For reference , that statute is 18 U.S.C . § 922 [ which lists several acts committed with firearms considered to be crimes . The AW ban added the following language , which has since expired but still exists in the Code ] : ( v ) ( 1 ) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture , transfer , or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon . ( 2 ) Paragraph ( 1 ) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection . ( 3 ) Paragraph ( 1 ) shall not apply to - ( A ) any of the firearms , or replicas or duplicates of the firearms , specified in Appendix A to this section , as such firearms were manufactured on October 1 , 1993 ; ( B ) any firearm that - ( i ) is manually operated by bolt , pump , lever , or slide action ; ( ii ) has been rendered permanently inoperable ; or ( iii ) is an antique firearm ; ( C ) any semiautomatic rifle that can not accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of ammunition ; or ( D ) any semiautomatic shotgun that can not hold more than 5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine . The fact that a firearm is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that paragraph ( 1 ) applies to such firearm . No firearm exempted by this subsection may be deleted from Appendix A so long as this subsection is in effect . ( 4 ) Paragraph ( 1 ) shall not apply to - ( A ) the manufacture for , transfer to , or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department , agency , or political subdivision of a State , or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement ( whether on or off duty ) ; ( B ) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law , or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials ; ( C ) the possession , by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm , of a semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement ; or ( D ) the manufacture , transfer , or possession of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary . ( w ) ( 1 ) Except as provided in paragraph ( 2 ) , it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device . ( 2 ) Paragraph ( 1 ) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection . ( 3 ) This subsection shall not apply to - ( A ) the manufacture for , transfer to , or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department , agency , or political subdivision of a State , or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement ( whether on or off duty ) ; ( B ) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law , or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials ; ( C ) the possession , by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving ammunition , of a large capacity ammunition feeding device transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement ; or ( D ) the manufacture , transfer , or possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary . ( 4 ) If a person charged with violating paragraph ( 1 ) asserts that paragraph ( 1 ) does not apply to such person because of paragraph ( 2 ) or ( 3 ) , the Government shall have the burden of proof to show that such paragraph ( 1 ) applies to such person . The lack of a serial number as described in section 923 ( i ) of this title shall be a presumption that the large capacity ammunition feeding device is not subject to the prohibition of possession in paragraph ( 1 ) .""",AGREE,"""through an all-out ban on guns by calling this an assault weapons ban .""","""possession in paragraph ( 1 ) .""",,
11575,3064,"""But of course , it was absolutely wrong .""","""Yes , but we had no way to tell until we found them again , now had we ?""",AGREE,"""But of course , it was absolutely wrong""","""Yes , but we had no way to tell until we found them again""",,
11592,3068,"""And you believed every word they fed you without a second thought . At least now we know whose line you 're peddling . Please , cite your sources to start with in the future . It 's not just a good idea , it 's the rules .""","""Actually , I had heard it several times on radio talk shows that normally do research before making claims . I then read it on several sites that cited the U.S. Census Records as their source . Since the radio shows and the websites all credited the U.S.Census , I perceived that they could not have made it up ... since they all matched within acceptable tolerances . It does seem reasonable to you that such information could be gleaned from the census data ... does it not ? Will you agree that what they say is true ?""",AGREE,"""believed every word they fed you without a second thought . It 's not just a good idea , it 's the rules .""","""I had heard it several times on radio talk shows that normally do research before making claims . It does seem reasonable to you that such information could be gleaned from the census data""",,
11604,3070,"""Max has outed himself as a hillbilly who can not spell or incorporate correct punctuation . I wonder if this effects his ability to know what evidence is ? Apparently so since he believes man evolved . '' attacking in `` LOL ! Ray M .""","""Sorry Ray , but your `` effects `` should be `` affects `` . Perhaps you need lessons in the English language too ?""",DISAGREE,"""Max hillbilly who can not spell effects evidence is""","""Ray , affects you need lessons""",,
11616,3072,"""... and ... that they are just `` rearranged pondscum `` .""","""Really ? And how do you come to this conclusion ? Are there a lot of teen-age suicide notes that complain of being rearranged pondscum ? And what does `` rearranged pondscum `` have to do with evolution , anyway ?""",DISAGREE,"""rearranged pondscum""","""And how do you come to this conclusion ? And what does `` rearranged pondscum `` have to do with evolution , anyway ?""",,
11621,3073,"""The most practical triumph of science over religion is not the acceptance of the fact of evolution by the pope , or of the acknowledgement of a heliocentric solar system ... it was in the seventeenth centuary , when churches began to put up lightning conductors""","""I was reminded of this , also ...""",AGREE,"""The most practical triumph of science over religion is not the acceptance of the fact of evolution by the pope , or of the acknowledgement of a heliocentric solar system ... it was in the seventeenth centuary , when churches began to put up lightning conductors""","""I was reminded of this , also ...""",,
11625,3073,"""The most practical triumph of science over religion is not the acceptance of the fact of evolution by the pope , or of the acknowledgement of a heliocentric solar system ... it was in the seventeenth centuary , when churches began to put up lightning conductors""","""I was reminded of this , also ...""",AGREE,"""when churches began to put up lightning conductors""","""I was reminded of this""",,
11626,3074,"""Evolutionists often claim  “ Evolutionary biology has moved past Darwin ’ s model ” but they never specify what it has  “ moved to ” .  “ Natural selection ” doing some mysterious thing to a collection of genomic accidents ” is the only materialist explanation I ’ ve heard for the origin of biological novelty . ( How could  “ natural selection ” ( premature death ) , possibly create anything ?  “ Natural selection ” can only select that which is already created , and RM & amp ; NS is the only detailed materialistic explanation I ’ ve heard suggested for such creation . All other explanations include some form of intelligent , purposeful organization . If that organizing intelligence is internal , that would make it no less no less intelligent . Theism is compatible with the concept of a natural organizing intelligence , but theism is not the only alternative to materialism . For instance : All living systems have some ability to respond to stimuli , intelligently and purposefully . Inanimate objects do not . All living systems have some of our own ability to override automatic function in times of emergency , and make novel , fallible , spontaneous , subjective choices . Living systems have ability to monitor their own level of function , recognize weaknesses , and to explore novel responses . Furthermore if function is not immediately restored , intelligently organized biological systems have the ability to explore other possibilities immediately , without being removed from action by  “ natural selection ” . If some people choose to call the creative intelligence of nature  “ god ” , I have no objection . As an agnostic , I don ’ t speculate about the origin of mass , energy , electromagnetism , gravity , creative intelligence -- or anything else . Fanatical evangelical atheists would be the only people who feel obligated to do battle against the term  “ intelligent design ” . http : //30145.myauthorsie.com/""","""Well for one thing , Darwin did not know about genetics . He knew there was a mechanism , but did not know what that mechanism could be . As for everything else , you are making what is known as a 'straw man ' , also assertions without evidence , and just plain bad logic .""",DISAGREE,"""some mysterious thing to a collection of genomic accidents is the only materialist explanation I ’ ve heard for the origin of biological novelty .""","""As for everything else , you are making what is known as a 'straw man ' , also assertions without evidence , and just plain bad logic .""",,
11627,3074,"""Evolutionists often claim  “ Evolutionary biology has moved past Darwin ’ s model ” but they never specify what it has  “ moved to ” .  “ Natural selection ” doing some mysterious thing to a collection of genomic accidents ” is the only materialist explanation I ’ ve heard for the origin of biological novelty . ( How could  “ natural selection ” ( premature death ) , possibly create anything ?  “ Natural selection ” can only select that which is already created , and RM & amp ; NS is the only detailed materialistic explanation I ’ ve heard suggested for such creation . All other explanations include some form of intelligent , purposeful organization . If that organizing intelligence is internal , that would make it no less no less intelligent . Theism is compatible with the concept of a natural organizing intelligence , but theism is not the only alternative to materialism . For instance : All living systems have some ability to respond to stimuli , intelligently and purposefully . Inanimate objects do not . All living systems have some of our own ability to override automatic function in times of emergency , and make novel , fallible , spontaneous , subjective choices . Living systems have ability to monitor their own level of function , recognize weaknesses , and to explore novel responses . Furthermore if function is not immediately restored , intelligently organized biological systems have the ability to explore other possibilities immediately , without being removed from action by  “ natural selection ” . If some people choose to call the creative intelligence of nature  “ god ” , I have no objection . As an agnostic , I don ’ t speculate about the origin of mass , energy , electromagnetism , gravity , creative intelligence -- or anything else . Fanatical evangelical atheists would be the only people who feel obligated to do battle against the term  “ intelligent design ” . http : //30145.myauthorsie.com/""","""Well for one thing , Darwin did not know about genetics . He knew there was a mechanism , but did not know what that mechanism could be . As for everything else , you are making what is known as a 'straw man ' , also assertions without evidence , and just plain bad logic .""",DISAGREE,"""Theism is compatible with the concept of a natural organizing intelligence , but theism is not the only alternative to materialism""","""be""",,
11629,3074,"""Evolutionists often claim  “ Evolutionary biology has moved past Darwin ’ s model ” but they never specify what it has  “ moved to ” .  “ Natural selection ” doing some mysterious thing to a collection of genomic accidents ” is the only materialist explanation I ’ ve heard for the origin of biological novelty . ( How could  “ natural selection ” ( premature death ) , possibly create anything ?  “ Natural selection ” can only select that which is already created , and RM & amp ; NS is the only detailed materialistic explanation I ’ ve heard suggested for such creation . All other explanations include some form of intelligent , purposeful organization . If that organizing intelligence is internal , that would make it no less no less intelligent . Theism is compatible with the concept of a natural organizing intelligence , but theism is not the only alternative to materialism . For instance : All living systems have some ability to respond to stimuli , intelligently and purposefully . Inanimate objects do not . All living systems have some of our own ability to override automatic function in times of emergency , and make novel , fallible , spontaneous , subjective choices . Living systems have ability to monitor their own level of function , recognize weaknesses , and to explore novel responses . Furthermore if function is not immediately restored , intelligently organized biological systems have the ability to explore other possibilities immediately , without being removed from action by  “ natural selection ” . If some people choose to call the creative intelligence of nature  “ god ” , I have no objection . As an agnostic , I don ’ t speculate about the origin of mass , energy , electromagnetism , gravity , creative intelligence -- or anything else . Fanatical evangelical atheists would be the only people who feel obligated to do battle against the term  “ intelligent design ” . http : //30145.myauthorsie.com/""","""Well for one thing , Darwin did not know about genetics . He knew there was a mechanism , but did not know what that mechanism could be . As for everything else , you are making what is known as a 'straw man ' , also assertions without evidence , and just plain bad logic .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionary biology has moved past""","""Darwin did not know about genetics .""",,
11646,3078,""" ‘ Archaeopteryx is a fraud ’ . Archaeopteryx was genuine ( unlike Archaeoraptor , a  ‘ Piltdown bird ’ ) , as shown by anatomical studies and close analysis of the fossil slab . It was a true bird , not a  ‘ missing link ’ .""","""Or was it a true reptile ? Or both , or something in between ? I forget .""",DISAGREE,"""and fossil slab true bird""","""true reptile something in between""",,
11643,3078,""" ‘ Archaeopteryx is a fraud ’ . Archaeopteryx was genuine ( unlike Archaeoraptor , a  ‘ Piltdown bird ’ ) , as shown by anatomical studies and close analysis of the fossil slab . It was a true bird , not a  ‘ missing link ’ .""","""Or was it a true reptile ? Or both , or something in between ? I forget .""",DISAGREE,"""unlike Archaeoraptor , a  ‘ Piltdown birdÂ""","""it a true reptile""",,
11647,3079,"""1 . As per nature 's plan ? Minus the interference of those who place more importance on the right to destroy than that of life that depends wholly on them . 2 . The born do not have the ability to dwell inside other people . They would drown or starve to death since the mechanics to achieve this are not in place . Bearing children is the job of women since they are the ones equipped for the job . Responsibility is a choice all must `` endure `` with each new adventure in life . Including the results of a pleasant night .""","""Oh , just come right out and say it , women are subhuman , all they are is wombs . Come on , let 's show the true colors of the pro-fetus movement .""",DISAGREE,"""Minus the interference of those who place more importance on the right to destroy than that of life that depends wholly on them""","""are""",,
11659,3081,"""I tried to address this in my original post . So I still maintain that reproduction is not a requirement for qualifying as living .""","""Walking-fish : I basically agree with you . I guess I was being redundant in this regard . I was thinking out loud , in cyberspace . But it is interesting that we humans may be the first species to actually go beyond the need for this death & amp ; reproduction cycle by genetically or artificially reinventing ourselves . But now I 'm thinking out loud again on the web .""",AGREE,"""I tried to address this in my original post . So I still maintain that reproduction is not a requirement for qualifying as living .""","""I basically agree with you . I guess I was being redundant in this regard . I""",,
11663,3081,"""I tried to address this in my original post . So I still maintain that reproduction is not a requirement for qualifying as living .""","""Walking-fish : I basically agree with you . I guess I was being redundant in this regard . I was thinking out loud , in cyberspace . But it is interesting that we humans may be the first species to actually go beyond the need for this death & amp ; reproduction cycle by genetically or artificially reinventing ourselves . But now I 'm thinking out loud again on the web .""",AGREE,"""I tried to address this in my original post .""","""I basically agree""",,
11662,3081,"""I tried to address this in my original post . So I still maintain that reproduction is not a requirement for qualifying as living .""","""Walking-fish : I basically agree with you . I guess I was being redundant in this regard . I was thinking out loud , in cyberspace . But it is interesting that we humans may be the first species to actually go beyond the need for this death & amp ; reproduction cycle by genetically or artificially reinventing ourselves . But now I 'm thinking out loud again on the web .""",AGREE,"""I tried to address this in my original post reproduction is not a requirement for qualifying as living .""","""I basically agree with you was thinking out loud , in cyberspace .""",,
11678,3083,"""We may have to agree to disagree peeling , but do n't you dare just assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""","""Actually , Peeling and others on this thread have proven you and Cash to be utterly wrong . The fact you do n't recognize this is irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""","""fact you do n't recognize this is irrelevant .""",,
11690,3084,"""German For Assault Rile Right ? I Read Up On The History Of The Ak47 I Find It Fscinating As All Hell , Now I Own One ! With All The Bells And Wistles .""","""Get the red star arms trigger ..... Freekin awsome . Get the ultimack foward rail and mount an OKO red dot ... Get a KVAR synthetic stock set ( I got OD green ! ) TOO cool .... Then get 5k rounds and shoot the hell out of it ! Here check it out ( notice the surefire on a barrell mount that set up was less than $ 75 bucks total ! ) Picture was takin in PA My hammer of liberty""",AGREE,"""German For Assault Rile Right""","""Get the red star arms KVAR synthetic stock set""",,
11699,3085,"""An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible . After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? to me it would be like winding up a top , loading it with paint , and then letting it spin on paper to create a painting . the process is deliberately set in motion , but the painting itself is random and not deliberate . where the paint falls is not by design , even though the overall pattern would be . anyway , to answer the question , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as evlution , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive . the problem is that christianity depends upon the account of genesis being true . spontaneous origin is mutually exclusive to genesis , but evolution by itself is not necessarily . but evolution poses other problems such as the age of the earth and the existence of dinosaurs that creationists are stumped by . in order to belief in evolution , you must , at the very least , disregard the genesis account . and disregarding genesis automatically invalidates christianity . but it doesnt necessarily invalidate the existence of a creator . pretty wierd , huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""where the paint falls is not by design , even though the overall pattern would be . anyway , to answer the question , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as evlution , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive . the problem is that christianity depends upon the account of genesis being true""",,
11698,3085,"""An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible . After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? to me it would be like winding up a top , loading it with paint , and then letting it spin on paper to create a painting . the process is deliberately set in motion , but the painting itself is random and not deliberate . where the paint falls is not by design , even though the overall pattern would be . anyway , to answer the question , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as evlution , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive . the problem is that christianity depends upon the account of genesis being true . spontaneous origin is mutually exclusive to genesis , but evolution by itself is not necessarily . but evolution poses other problems such as the age of the earth and the existence of dinosaurs that creationists are stumped by . in order to belief in evolution , you must , at the very least , disregard the genesis account . and disregarding genesis automatically invalidates christianity . but it doesnt necessarily invalidate the existence of a creator . pretty wierd , huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""spontaneous origin is mutually exclusive to genesis , but evolution by itself is not necessarily .""",,
11703,3085,"""An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible . After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? to me it would be like winding up a top , loading it with paint , and then letting it spin on paper to create a painting . the process is deliberately set in motion , but the painting itself is random and not deliberate . where the paint falls is not by design , even though the overall pattern would be . anyway , to answer the question , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as evlution , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive . the problem is that christianity depends upon the account of genesis being true . spontaneous origin is mutually exclusive to genesis , but evolution by itself is not necessarily . but evolution poses other problems such as the age of the earth and the existence of dinosaurs that creationists are stumped by . in order to belief in evolution , you must , at the very least , disregard the genesis account . and disregarding genesis automatically invalidates christianity . but it doesnt necessarily invalidate the existence of a creator . pretty wierd , huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible .""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? to me it would be like winding up a top ,""",,
11701,3085,"""An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible . After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? to me it would be like winding up a top , loading it with paint , and then letting it spin on paper to create a painting . the process is deliberately set in motion , but the painting itself is random and not deliberate . where the paint falls is not by design , even though the overall pattern would be . anyway , to answer the question , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as evlution , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive . the problem is that christianity depends upon the account of genesis being true . spontaneous origin is mutually exclusive to genesis , but evolution by itself is not necessarily . but evolution poses other problems such as the age of the earth and the existence of dinosaurs that creationists are stumped by . in order to belief in evolution , you must , at the very least , disregard the genesis account . and disregarding genesis automatically invalidates christianity . but it doesnt necessarily invalidate the existence of a creator . pretty wierd , huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible""","""would this be considered intelligent design ? , , there are lots of people who believe in a creator as well as , so the beliefs are not mutually exclusive evolution it doesnt necessarily invalidate the existence of a creator . pretty wierd ,""",,
11726,3095,"""I 've said it many times before and I 'll probably have to say it many times in the future , biological evolution is atheistic in the same way that plumbing is atheistic .""","""Well , both traffic in waste material . Many traps are present in each for them to function properly . And do n't forget where biological evolution and plumbing both lead you -- into a cesspool .""",AGREE,"""biological evolution is atheistic in the same way that plumbing is atheistic .""","""And do n't forget where biological evolution and plumbing both lead you -- into a cesspool .""",,
11731,3096,"""http : //nytimes.com/2005/02/19/national/19catholic.html Catholic Group Receives 1,092 New Sex Abuse Reports By NEELA BANERJEE Published : February 19 , 2005 WASHINGTON , Feb. 18 - Roman Catholic bishops reported on Friday that they had received 1,092 new accusations of sexual abuse by priests as they released the second annual survey of the church 's procedures for handling and preventing such abuse by clergy and employees . Kathleen McChesney , executive director of the Office of Child and Youth Protection of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops , said the overwhelming majority of the accusations , which were made against 756 priests , concerned incidents that took place about 30 years ago . Twenty-two accusations of abuse were made by children in 2004 , and they were all turned over to the police , Dr. McChesney said . The findings were released on Friday by the national conference , which has hired independent auditors to assess the church 's response to the sex abuse scandals that exploded in 2002 . Dr. McChesney said the costs to the church had exceeded $ 800 million since 1950 . Last year alone the costs from settlements , therapy for victims and offenders , and lawyers ' fees came to about $ 139.6 million , according to the report . The 1,092 new accusations of abuse were made by 1,083 people , mostly men . Last year the bishops released an analysis conducted by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York , based on figures from bishops and religious orders , that found 10,667 minors had allegedly been abused from 1950 to 2002 . The actual number of victims will probably remain unknown because many people never come forward , Dr. McChesney said . '' We were n't surprised by the numbers because many people are still finding the courage to come forward , `` Dr. McChesney said , `` and the church is in a better place to accept those allegations. `` . . .""","""These two issues ( abortion and sexual abuse among priests ) are completely unrelated . The problems in one area have no bearing on the credibility the church has in the other . This is a classic case of a non-sequitur .""",DISAGREE,"""Roman Catholic bishops reported on Friday that they had received 1,092 new accusations of sexual abuse by priests""","""These two issues ( abortion and sexual abuse among priests ) are completely unrelated .""",,
11740,3098,"""I seriously doubt he used the word 'living '""","""So true . That was my mistake as i was envisioning Lucy as she was when she existed .""",AGREE,"""I seriously doubt he used the word 'living '""","""So true .""",,
11746,3100,"""I 'm just impressed this type of experiment was done at all .""","""So SS . Please explain it all to me . Please show that you are not conclusion jumping and making unwarranted extrapolation based on poor understanding of the material . In other words , show me that you understand by explaining the research to me . Thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm just impressed this type of experiment was done at all .""","""Please explain it all to me . Please show that you are not conclusion jumping""",,
11748,3100,"""I 'm just impressed this type of experiment was done at all .""","""So SS . Please explain it all to me . Please show that you are not conclusion jumping and making unwarranted extrapolation based on poor understanding of the material . In other words , show me that you understand by explaining the research to me . Thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""just impressed this type of experiment was done at all .""","""show me that you understand by explaining the research to me .""",,
11750,3101,"""I stated nothing ; I merely asked you ( or rather marc ) to consider the options impartially and assess the scale and plausibility of the conspiracies each entail . Factor in the explicitly advertised intentions of the I.D movement and related sites such as AIG , and it 's not hard to pick a winner .""","""I never said anything about a conspiracy Peeling . I very clearly gave valid reasons to Consider that scientific GRANTS and pay increases for these scientists are based on making new and previously undiscovered claims that forward the science . That is the greatest motivation to lie , cheat , create and falsify evidence which adds to the scientists personal wealth and further promotes a false science that is rife with selfish motivations to preserve , protect and promote it .""",DISAGREE,"""I merely asked you ( or rather marc ) to consider the options impartially and assess the scale and plausibility of the conspiracies each entail""","""I never said anything about a conspiracy Peeling . I very clearly gave valid reasons to Consider that scientific GRANTS""",,
11775,3107,"""I dont care how many frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""Because nobody could be anymore fraudulent than your own Brady Campaign and Violence Policy Center , right ? Simply because you call our sources frauds does n't mean they are , Brady . They 're accurate whether you like them or not . Meanwhile the VPC is slowly dying off , losing more and more members each day , and slipping into obscurity .""",DISAGREE,"""I dont care how many frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""Because nobody could be anymore fraudulent than your own Brady Campaign and Violence Policy Center , right ? Simply because you call our sources frauds does n't mean they are VPC is slowly dying off , losing more and more members each day , and slipping into obscurity .""",,
11784,3109,"""I do n't see anyone protesting at this `` joke. `` A good joke is at least based on some reality .""","""This joke is based on some reality , `` the conquest of the North Pole is traditionally credited to Anglo-American Navy engineer Robert Edwin Peary , who claimed to have reached the Pole on April 6 , 1909 . Anyhow , not all jokes are completely true , how many stand up comedians have you heard ? ? ? If you were to nit pick every joke out there ( being politicaly correct etc ) there would be no jokes left !""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't see anyone protesting at this `` joke .""","""This joke is based on some reality , `` the conquest of the North Pole is traditionally credited to Anglo-American Navy engineer Robert Edwin Peary ,""",,
11801,3112,"""Biomorphs are an embarrassing attempt to explain just how a complex structure such as an eye might come about by gradual mutations , except they only do this by fooling you into believing the program mimics a natural possibility - when it ca n't , not when you are running the program and interfering at will .""","""no they are not . you quote a web site that is not dawkin 's interpretations of biomorphs and suggest that the web site 's interpretation is what dawkins created biomorphs for . it is outlines very clearly in `` the blind watchmaker `` as to what limitations should be put on the biomorphs when comparing them to real life . again i say to reclaim integrity admit that dawkins never suggested that biomorphs should be considered as a model for evolution or natural selection , and there was only one main point to be taken from them ( small mutations are more likely to produce benefits than large mutations ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Biomorphs are an embarrassing attempt to explain just how a complex structure such as an eye might come about by gradual mutations""","""not you quote a web site that is not dawkin 's interpretations of biomorphs it is outlines very clearly in `` the blind watchmaker `` as to what limitations should be put on the biomorphs when comparing them to real life ,""",,
11799,3112,"""Biomorphs are an embarrassing attempt to explain just how a complex structure such as an eye might come about by gradual mutations , except they only do this by fooling you into believing the program mimics a natural possibility - when it ca n't , not when you are running the program and interfering at will .""","""no they are not . you quote a web site that is not dawkin 's interpretations of biomorphs and suggest that the web site 's interpretation is what dawkins created biomorphs for . it is outlines very clearly in `` the blind watchmaker `` as to what limitations should be put on the biomorphs when comparing them to real life . again i say to reclaim integrity admit that dawkins never suggested that biomorphs should be considered as a model for evolution or natural selection , and there was only one main point to be taken from them ( small mutations are more likely to produce benefits than large mutations ) .""",DISAGREE,"""except they only do this by fooling you into believing the program mimics a natural possibility""","""no they are not .""",,
11826,3117,"""Do you think the God will be happy with abortion ?""","""I dunno . Do you think the Tooth Fairy will be happy with people drink-driving ? Any argument from a religious stand-point necessitates proving that said religion is true . Do that , and you 'll get a lot of respect from a lot of people .""",DISAGREE,"""God will be happy with abortion""","""Tooth Fairy will be happy with people drink-driving ? Any argument from a religious stand-point necessitates proving that said religion is true""",,
11851,3122,"""It ’ s easy to understand why the insurance and drug companies would want to avoid Health Care Reform at most any cost .""","""Actually insurance and drug companies love fascist `` reforms `` , because they eliminate the need for competition . Insurance and drug companies utterly support forcing people to buy insurance . Spare us the tired michael moore government vs corporations rhetoric , it 's obvious they 're both on the same side . And if you did n't realise that after the bank bailouts , the only healthcare you 're in need of is a lobotomy .""",DISAGREE,"""easy to understand why the insurance and drug companies would want to avoid Health Care Reform""","""insurance and drug companies love fascist `` reforms they eliminate the need for competition utterly support forcing people to buy insurance they 're both on the same side""",,
11860,3125,"""There is considerable confusion about the legal theory underlying the `` right to keep and bear arms `` . This is a brief outline for a clarification of the discussion of this issue . > ( 1 ) The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not establish the right to keep and bear arms . None of the provisions of the Constitution establish any `` natural `` rights . They recognize such rights , but the repeal of such provisions would not end such rights . Such rights were considered by many of the Framers as obvious or `` self-evident `` , but they were immersed in the prevailing republican thought of the day , as expressed in the writings of Locke , Montesquieu , Rousseau , Madison , Hamilton , and others , which discussed `` natural rights `` in some detail . Others argued that at least some of the rights needed to be made explicit in the Bill of Rights to avoid having future generations with less understanding of republican theory weaken in their defense of those rights . That has turned out to have been a good idea > ( 2 ) The right to keep and bear arms is a natural right of individuals under the theory of democratic government . This was clearly the understanding and intent of the Framers of the U.S. Constitution and was a long-established principle of English common law at the time the Constitution was adopted , which is considered to be a part of constitutional law for purposes of interpreting the written Constitution .""","""And Hamilton 's writings in Federalist 28 . FEDERALIST No . 28 HAMILTON""",AGREE,"""as expressed in the writings of Locke , Montesquieu , Rousseau , Madison , Hamilton , and others , which discussed `` natural rights `` in some detail . Others argued that at least some of the rights needed to be made explicit in the Bill of Rights""","""And Hamilton 's writings in Federalist 28 . FEDERALIST No . 28 HAMILTON""",,
11881,3130,"""# 2 - Can anyone prove to me without a doubt abiogenesis is the way life began , even though no one was there to observe it ?""","""First , abiogensis is n't part of evolution , two , if we used your logic , if no one was there to observe it , nothing can be proved . Does a tree that falls in the woods make a sound if no one is there to observe it ? If a man says something stupid and a woman is n't there to call him on it , did he say something stupid ? The logic is faulty . Just because we were n't there to observe it , does not mean it did not happen . let 's apply the logic to your argument . Since no human was there to observe Genesis , it therefore did not happen ? How do you like your own logic being used aganist you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Can anyone prove to me without a doubt abiogenesis is the way life began , even though no one was there to observe it ?""","""First , abiogensis is n't part of evolution , two , if we used your logic , if no one was there to observe it , nothing can be proved .""",,
11883,3130,"""# 2 - Can anyone prove to me without a doubt abiogenesis is the way life began , even though no one was there to observe it ?""","""First , abiogensis is n't part of evolution , two , if we used your logic , if no one was there to observe it , nothing can be proved . Does a tree that falls in the woods make a sound if no one is there to observe it ? If a man says something stupid and a woman is n't there to call him on it , did he say something stupid ? The logic is faulty . Just because we were n't there to observe it , does not mean it did not happen . let 's apply the logic to your argument . Since no human was there to observe Genesis , it therefore did not happen ? How do you like your own logic being used aganist you ?""",DISAGREE,"""even though no one was there to observe it ?""","""The logic is faulty .""",,
11887,3131,"""that can then be repeated and that can withstand independent review .""","""But if the repeated tests just confirm the same errors or misinterpretations of the results , all of the independent reviews in the World wont make a difference .""",DISAGREE,"""that can then be repeated and that can withstand independent review .""","""repeated tests just confirm the same errors or misinterpretations of the results all of the independent reviews in the World wont make a difference .""",,
11899,3134,"""You need look no further than the current state of California to realized that the United States is heading towards socialism just as Europe has in the past few decades . Will the United States one day become a socialist nation ? Does socialism work ? Would avoiding socialism hurt the future of the US or would socialism hurt the future of the US ?""","""Yes California is following European socialism . Just like socialist Europe , they are going broke . Socialism depends on large income taxes to fund social programs . Try the same taxes here in the USA and people will get thier guns and shoot all the politicians trying to tax them . Remember this country was born over a fight over taxes .""",AGREE,"""California United States is heading towards socialism Will the United States one day become a socialist nation ? Does socialism work ?""","""Yes California is following European socialism Just like socialist Europe , they are going broke people will get thier guns and shoot all the politicians trying to tax them this country was born over a fight over taxes""",,
11903,3135,"""I am not disputing that Christians forged texts that much is apparent from the historical sources , ( Archie 's obsession with theological sources is misguided here hence the comedy value of his posts , Does he really want me to slap him with the Mahabharata again ? The compilation is a historical event with specific characters , thus his vague theological link misses entirely . ) however that does not hold true for * all * the texts which have been omitted and the decisions were taken by individuals . Frankly I could n't give a rats arse about it , it 's an ancient historical footnote . However the amount of flak coming up from both ends of the religious spectrum does suggest I 'm onto something and their continued attempts to redirect to the canon would suggest that there & # 8217 ; s something in the omitted texts they 're uncomfortable with .""","""Personally , I do n't see what the big deal is . In my opinion ( as someone who has read a lot of the early church writings ) it is clear from writings of very early people like Clement , Ignatius , Justn Martyr , etc that what we consider orthodoxy was indeed orthodoxy from the get-go , and so it is only fair that they had some sense of wanting to keep out writings that they did n't consider accurate or genuine . People sometimes bring this us as if it indicates something bad about Christianity or early Christianity , but why should they have allowed writings into the canon that they considered spurious ? ( Now whether the canonical writings we have are spurious too is another debate -- the bottom line is that THEY -- the early Christians -- did n't feel at the time that the NT books in our canon were spurious for the most part . ) Now one of the things people will sometimes say is `` well , THOSE Christians won the day , and the Gnostics/Arians did n't , so there may have been gnostic or Arian writers that got suppressed so we do n't really know. `` Well , you could ALWAYS make that argument about ANYTHING . We do n't come to hard conclusions based on material for which we have no idea was there -- a speculative basis -- we come to hard conclusions based on what IS there . Sure , there 's a general understanding with history the winners write the history , but that does n't mean we go back and fill in blanks or overwrite what we accept with speculation .""",DISAGREE,"""there s something in the omitted texts they 're uncomfortable with .""","""why should they have allowed writings into the canon that they considered spurious ?""",,
11939,3143,"""And the reason for this is they do not accept the notion that the environment can cause a mutation . Thus , they simply chicken out when it comes to any testing that would falsify their theory . However , what they DO do , is resort to confusing people by playing around with bacteria and other assorted organisms in the lab .""","""Scientists do not want to ( and/or are not allowed to ) do experiments on animals that will kill some of them . All of the evidence that you will find will be based on experiments that do not harm animals ( except , of course , for insects ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Thus , they simply chicken out when it comes to any testing that would falsify their theory .""","""Scientists do not want to ( and/or are not allowed to ) do experiments on animals that will kill some of them .""",,
11953,3146,"""They are not the properties of the physical universe ( since they are conceptual ) ...""","""I 'll give you that , though there is a whole school of debate about what thoughts are .""",AGREE,"""They are not the properties of the physical universe""","""I 'll give you that , though there is a whole school of debate about what thoughts are .""",,
11960,3148,"""The Brady Center has released a report on President Obama ’ s performance called President Obama ’ s First Year : Failed Leadership , Lost Lives . The President ’ s concessions to the  “ guns anywhere ” mentality of the gun lobby and lack of leadership for common-sense gun laws has earned him a grade of  “ F ” . President Obama signed legislation letting people carry concealed weapons in national parks and in checked luggage on Amtrak trains , adopted the gun lobby ’ s empty rhetoric about just  “ enforcing the laws on the books ,  ” and muzzled Cabinet members who expressed support for stronger gun laws . In addition , the White House voiced no objection to people carrying guns near Presidential events and his White House staff removed statements from the White House website that declared support for gun violence prevention laws . What a traitor !""","""Talking about traitors , brady you are IT . Meanwhile on the other board you started previous to cutting and running like the coward you obviously are , Bryan posted a challenge to you . If you choose to accept the challenge which I have money that you do not accept , ( so do n't dissapoint me ) , be sure to read his guidelines so you will not make strawman arguments and red herring arguments . I am betting you can not carry on a sustained debate without falling flat on your face""",DISAGREE,"""The Brady Center has released a report on President Obama ’ s performance called President Obama ’ s First Year :""","""Talking about traitors , brady you are IT . Meanwhile on the other board you started previous to cutting and running like the coward you obviously are , Bryan posted a challenge to you .""",,
11966,3149,"""Losing a fetus should not be a big deal to the pro choice lot on this forum , considering the effort they put into arguing that a fetus is either the equivalent of a parasite or a piece of tissue with no value .""","""Ah , but the issue in this thread is what the fetus really means to anti-choicers/anti-lifers .""",DISAGREE,"""Losing a fetus should not be a big deal to the pro choice lot on this forum ,""","""but the issue in this thread is what the fetus really means to""",,
11970,3150,"""Obviously . The fact you would desire such a thing disturbs me .""","""Just where did the word desire appear ? Read the black part only .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact you would desire such a thing disturbs me .""","""Just where did the word desire appear ?""",,
11974,3151,"""Yes an I am sure you love unbridled capitalism , cruel self centred people do . Capitalism is a cruel system that kills people , lets them starve , makes them homeless , and exploits the poor for the gain of a few .""","""Three questions : What country operates under an `` unbridled capitalism `` system ? Can you name any nation that has operated under your idea of socialism successfully ? If the American system of government is so terrible , why do we have one of the highest standards of living on earth ? Just because you think you are entitled to what I earn does n't make it so . Earn your own .""",DISAGREE,"""unbridled capitalism Capitalism is a cruel system""","""your idea of socialism successfully system of government""",,
11987,3155,"""I believe we have a human responsibility to one another .""","""No , you believe we have a human responsibility to the government . There is a huge difference between charity and the government threatening people with jail or death if they do n't hand over their wallets .""",DISAGREE,"""I believe we have a human responsibility to one another .""","""No , you believe we have a human responsibility to the government .""",,
12002,3172,"""Another Opinion `` mental existence `` - meaning any rudimentary mind in the form of rudimentary thought , emotion , sense of self , perception of pain or other senses , etc . My assumption is the scientific assumption that our minds are determined by the functioning of the brain and by its state of development and health . Of course , one could argue the religious view of a soul external to our bodies determining at least part of our mental existence , but there is no evidence to support any such religious view - it is all taken on faith . Where abortion rights are concerned , separation of Church and state would not allow for women 's rights to be restricted based on a religious argument .""","""No disagreements . Something left out ( probably because it was assumed ) , is memory . What you call mental existence I would say is a description of what causes or leads to personal identity . To me it is self evident that there is no person or personhood without a personal identity . There might be disagreement about what the particulars are concerning how to identify a personal identity , but it seems self evident to me that a mind is required , and without a brain , there is no mind , so a brain is required . It seems to me self evident that if there is no brain , there is no person . Of course , others will disagree . Some say that the unique DNA of a zygote is enough for personal identity , but if this is true , identical twins ( with identical DNA ) would have to share one personal identity , and one soul . In the case of a chimera , two souls/unique DNA in two zygotes , would have to blend into one person/soul . ( No , most chimeras are not schizophrenic ) . I believe an integral part of [ personal identity > mental existence > personhood ] is memory . Whether it is short term , or long term , without memory there is no sense of self . ( I may be stating the obvious , but you never know . ) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It is not clear if your list of indicators for mental existence is  “ one will suffice ” , or  “ several are required ” . I don ’ t think it matters all that much , but I ’ m not sure , just wondering .""",AGREE,"""Where abortion rights are concerned , separation of Church and state would not allow for women 's rights to be restricted based on a religious argument .""","""No disagreements . Something left out""",,
12001,3172,"""Another Opinion `` mental existence `` - meaning any rudimentary mind in the form of rudimentary thought , emotion , sense of self , perception of pain or other senses , etc . My assumption is the scientific assumption that our minds are determined by the functioning of the brain and by its state of development and health . Of course , one could argue the religious view of a soul external to our bodies determining at least part of our mental existence , but there is no evidence to support any such religious view - it is all taken on faith . Where abortion rights are concerned , separation of Church and state would not allow for women 's rights to be restricted based on a religious argument .""","""No disagreements . Something left out ( probably because it was assumed ) , is memory . What you call mental existence I would say is a description of what causes or leads to personal identity . To me it is self evident that there is no person or personhood without a personal identity . There might be disagreement about what the particulars are concerning how to identify a personal identity , but it seems self evident to me that a mind is required , and without a brain , there is no mind , so a brain is required . It seems to me self evident that if there is no brain , there is no person . Of course , others will disagree . Some say that the unique DNA of a zygote is enough for personal identity , but if this is true , identical twins ( with identical DNA ) would have to share one personal identity , and one soul . In the case of a chimera , two souls/unique DNA in two zygotes , would have to blend into one person/soul . ( No , most chimeras are not schizophrenic ) . I believe an integral part of [ personal identity > mental existence > personhood ] is memory . Whether it is short term , or long term , without memory there is no sense of self . ( I may be stating the obvious , but you never know . ) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It is not clear if your list of indicators for mental existence is  “ one will suffice ” , or  “ several are required ” . I don ’ t think it matters all that much , but I ’ m not sure , just wondering .""",AGREE,"""Another Opinion `` mental existence `` - meaning any rudimentary mind in the form of rudimentary thought , emotion , sense of self , perception of pain or other senses , etc . My assumption is the scientific assumption that our minds are determined by the functioning of the brain and by its state of development and health .""","""No disagreements . Something left out ( probably because it was assumed ) , is memory . What you call mental existence I would say is a description of what causes or leads to personal identity .""",,
12008,3173,"""If you have a specific topic from any of those you 'd like to discuss I 'll be glad to talk it over with you .""","""Sure . I would like to discuss the first one . It shows obvious similarities that are almost certainly not coincidencial . In part I , the fish and salamander look similar to everything else ( note the curvature and the small flaps under the head ) . However , in parts II and III , the fish and salamander begin to look different . You can see where this is leading , right ? It is leading to the assertion that these organisms are related , but that the fish and reptiles are not as closely related to the mammals as the mammals are related to each other . This assertion is also backed up by the fossil record , but that is n't as visible as this picture .""",AGREE,"""If you have a specific topic from any of those you 'd like to discuss I 'll be glad to talk it over with you .""","""Sure . I would like to discuss the first one""",,
12017,3175,"""Well done Nato ! I ca n't believe you took the time to Fisk all of these stupid points . Originally Posted by NATO 556 Sarah Brady is a straw purchaser then . She knowingly broke the law by buying a gun for somebody else instead of letting them go through the NICS check system . Who knows what else she 's done and who she 's supplied guns to . Showing the RIDICULOUS nature of some gun laws ! Even the Antis ca n't ( or maybe wo n't ) obey them ! Ridiculous paperwork traps that even caught and surprised the Queen of gun control !""","""`` A story in some early editions of yesterday 's Daily News incorrectly reported that gun-control advocate Sarah Brady may have skirted Delaware 's gun laws when she bought a rifle for her adult son but did not declare who was going to own the weapon . '' The Delaware Department of Justice initially insisted to The News that gun purchasers must declare who the weapon was intended for so that person 's background could be checked . Yesterday , a spokeswoman for the Delaware Department of Justice said it misinterpreted the law and that Brady was not obligated to state that the gun was for her son as long as he was legally qualified to own a firearm . '' In addition , a spokesman for Brady said , 'Sarah Brady told the gun store that the gun was for her son and filled out the forms that they asked her to fill out . ' '' The News regrets the error. `` CORRECTION""",DISAGREE,"""Well done Nato ! I ca n't believe you took the time to Fisk all of these stupid points . Originally Posted by NATO 556 Sarah Brady is a straw purchaser then . She knowingly broke the law by buying a gun for somebody else instead of letting them go through the NICS check system .""","""A story in some early editions of yesterday 's Daily News incorrectly reported that gun-control advocate Sarah Brady may have skirted Delaware 's gun laws when she bought a rifle for her adult son but did not declare who was going to own the weapon . '' The Delaware Department of Justice initially insisted to The News that gun purchasers must declare who the weapon was intended for so that person 's background could be checked .""",,
12018,3175,"""Well done Nato ! I ca n't believe you took the time to Fisk all of these stupid points . Originally Posted by NATO 556 Sarah Brady is a straw purchaser then . She knowingly broke the law by buying a gun for somebody else instead of letting them go through the NICS check system . Who knows what else she 's done and who she 's supplied guns to . Showing the RIDICULOUS nature of some gun laws ! Even the Antis ca n't ( or maybe wo n't ) obey them ! Ridiculous paperwork traps that even caught and surprised the Queen of gun control !""","""`` A story in some early editions of yesterday 's Daily News incorrectly reported that gun-control advocate Sarah Brady may have skirted Delaware 's gun laws when she bought a rifle for her adult son but did not declare who was going to own the weapon . '' The Delaware Department of Justice initially insisted to The News that gun purchasers must declare who the weapon was intended for so that person 's background could be checked . Yesterday , a spokeswoman for the Delaware Department of Justice said it misinterpreted the law and that Brady was not obligated to state that the gun was for her son as long as he was legally qualified to own a firearm . '' In addition , a spokesman for Brady said , 'Sarah Brady told the gun store that the gun was for her son and filled out the forms that they asked her to fill out . ' '' The News regrets the error. `` CORRECTION""",DISAGREE,"""NATO 556 Sarah Brady is a straw purchaser then . She knowingly broke the law by buying a gun for somebody else instead of letting them go through the NICS check system .""","""Delaware Department of Justice initially insisted to The News that gun purchasers must declare who the weapon was intended for so that person 's background could be checked he""",,
12039,3178,"""Exploitation in that many women , who are concerned about their circumstances , are n't thinking clearly . Now , here comes this doctor saying , `` we 'll kill your baby for free ! `` That 's exploitation .""","""You are SO insulting . '' Oh , the poor dears have been through too much and are considering an action I disagree with so they must not be thinking clearly. `` Who are you to say they are n't thinking clearly ? I 'll give it to you , Bassman . You are the most polite , best veiled misogynist I have ever encountered . You nearly had me fooled .""",DISAGREE,"""we 'll kill your baby for free ! ``""","""You are SO insulting . '' Oh , the poor dears have been through too much and are considering an action I disagree with so they must not be thinking clearly""",,
12043,3179,"""Well , you got that one exactly right . I did n't bother to watch your video . It was pretty predictable coming from you - personal attacks on creationists . I quoted YOU because of what YOU said .""","""And what did I say ? I quoted the title of the video , said `` Enjoy `` and labeled the link `` link `` So how is saying `` enjoy `` and `` link `` which were MY words mockery ? The only thing that suggests otherwise is the VIDEO 's Title , which I did not create .""",DISAGREE,"""personal attacks on creationists .""","""how is saying `` enjoy `` and `` link `` which were MY words mockery ?""",,
12054,3182,"""Amazing how regularly they shoot themselves in the foot is n't it ?""","""Chalk it up to the fact that -- although not all the time -- a good part of the time , the same people are pretty anti-anything education . We should n't expect them to argue positions that make sense .""",AGREE,"""Amazing how regularly they shoot themselves in the foot is n't it ?""","""the same people are pretty anti-anything education We should n't expect them to argue positions that make sense .""",,
12052,3182,"""Amazing how regularly they shoot themselves in the foot is n't it ?""","""Chalk it up to the fact that -- although not all the time -- a good part of the time , the same people are pretty anti-anything education . We should n't expect them to argue positions that make sense .""",AGREE,"""how regularly""","""a good part of the time""",,
12060,3184,"""Your point being ? Better the democrats that are torn on the subject then the republican who will send gay people to the camps .""","""yes , we will send you to the camps and all of us will gather in our black robes and dance around a fire while we make you dig ditches .""",DISAGREE,"""the republican who will send gay people to the camps .""","""we will send you to the camps""",,
12077,3187,"""Er , no . That is AnswersinGenesis ' reasoning . Are you having difficulties reading ? It seems so , as you are unable to distinguish between what a poster says and what an organization they are quoting says .""","""Generally , when someone posts an article without a disclaimer , they agree with the findings and the reasoning of the article provided . Besides , your statement does not change the fact that the reasoning provided is foolish .""",DISAGREE,"""what an organization they are quoting""","""the fact that the reasoning provided is foolish .""",,
12075,3187,"""Er , no . That is AnswersinGenesis ' reasoning . Are you having difficulties reading ? It seems so , as you are unable to distinguish between what a poster says and what an organization they are quoting says .""","""Generally , when someone posts an article without a disclaimer , they agree with the findings and the reasoning of the article provided . Besides , your statement does not change the fact that the reasoning provided is foolish .""",DISAGREE,"""Er , no . That is AnswersinGenesis ' reasoning . Are you having difficulties reading ? It seems so , as you are unable to distinguish between what a poster says and what an organization they are quoting says .""","""Generally , when someone posts an article without a disclaimer , they agree with the findings and the reasoning of the article provided . Besides , your statement does not change the fact that the reasoning provided is foolish .""",,
12092,3190,"""It 's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than a cigarette or a beer .""","""And it 's a lot easier to kill people in a crowd when using a car or a truck than with a gun . The entire `` Easier to kill `` argument is rather irrelevant , because there 's always something that makes it easier to kill somebody with when compared to something else . You 've also failed to show why your statement is justification for attempting to ban a legal product . So how about you explain that .""",DISAGREE,"""with a gun than a cigarette or a beer""","""a lot easier to kill people in a crowd when using a car or a truck than with a gun""",,
12094,3190,"""It 's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than a cigarette or a beer .""","""And it 's a lot easier to kill people in a crowd when using a car or a truck than with a gun . The entire `` Easier to kill `` argument is rather irrelevant , because there 's always something that makes it easier to kill somebody with when compared to something else . You 've also failed to show why your statement is justification for attempting to ban a legal product . So how about you explain that .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun than a cigarette or a beer .""","""And it 's a lot easier to kill people in a crowd when using a car or a truck than with a gun""",,
12113,3193,"""[ size=7 ] [ size=7 ] Not many people close to me know my story but for once I 'm actually ready to share with other people . Maybe I can reach out and help somebody or help people see the reality . When I was 16 I was curious about sex because a couple of my friends had done it and I ( for some dumb reason ) wanted to see what it was like for myself ( peer pressure , I guess ) . So it happens that my period does n't come . I find out that during this most unpleasurable experience he decided to take the condom off . I knew I was pregnant . And I knew that my mom would kill me if she found out so I kept it to myself . After a few weeks my mom started to get bad feelings and confronted me , had me take a pregnancy test , and as I said was ready to kill me . She was ashamed and really did n't give me much of an option as to whether or not I wanted to keep the baby . I also knew deep down that I was not ready to have a baby nor did I have the financial means to take care of one ( unless I wanted to live off of welfare ) . The father was not going to play an active role in this baby 's life , as far as he was concerned this was all a big joke to him . So I went to the clinic ( passed through all the pro-life activists ) and had the procedure done . I was scared but you know , I knew it was the right thing to do . I 'm 27 now and still think back and ask myself if I have any regrets . I would have a child that would be around 11 years old . I wonder what kind if life the 2 of us would be living . I 'm married now and have 2 children that I love and adore . They have a good life . I 'm glad that I had that choice 11 years ago . A second chance to make it right .""","""First of all , welcome : D I believe as you do , that having a child is not always the best and most responsible thing to do in certain circumstances . For what it is worth , I think you did the right thing , for you and your current children .""",AGREE,"""I 'm glad that I had that choice 11 years ago""","""I think you did the right thing , for you and your current children .""",,
12126,3196,"""Simone , you are one sick puppy . We are a safety conscious group ! Once you fix the evil within the heart of man , we will then consider your point of view on the 2nd Amendment . However , if you were ever successful , then there would be no need to for your view of the 2nd Amendment . Let me speak everyone here . We wish not only Amanda Ross was not only living and safe , but perhaps had the weapon to protect herself from her assailant , if she was comfortable doing so ! Hey I just had another group you could blame . Blame law enforcement because they ca n't be everywhere all of the time !""","""Well , then , I guess that in America we ca n't possibly be safe from kill-happy gunners can we ?""",DISAGREE,"""you are one sick puppy . We are a safety conscious group !""","""I guess that in America we ca n't possibly be safe from kill-happy gunners can we ?""",,
12143,3199,"""so 1 vote for fact""","""Well sort of not .""",DISAGREE,"""so 1 vote for fact""","""Well sort of not""",,
12170,3215,"""A British couple held hostage by pirates for more than three months have told of brutal treatment at the hand of their captors who they say are perilously close to killing them . In separate telephone interviews with CNN affiliate ITN , Paul and Rachel Chandler pleaded for help and spoke of their fears that they were just days away from death . An emotional Rachel Chandler also spoke of how she thought `` dying would actually be an easy way out `` and how she wanted to see her husband `` at least once before we die. `` The Chandlers were taken by pirates from their 38-foot yacht , the Lynn Rival , just days after setting sail from the Seychelles islands for Tanzania . Their captors initially demanded a ransom of $ 7 million , but the British government -- in line with longstanding policy -- has refused to pay . '' Please , please find a way of helping us because it really is a very desperate situation here , `` Rachel Chandler said in the latest interview , in which she said she had not seen her husband for two weeks since they were violently separated . '' I 've broken a tooth because I was hit on the head with something , probably the butt of a gun ... I do n't know ... and yes , so we have been physically attacked. `` Rachel Chandler , 55 , who along with her husband has been held for nearly 100 days , said the pirates had issued a new deadline . '' They 've just told me that if they do n't get the money within four or five days they 'll kill one of us. `` Audibly close to tears , she also asked for a message to be passed on to her husband . '' The message to him is hang on for me because I hope -- my biggest hope -- is that I shall see him at least once before we die. `` She added : `` It 's hard not to feel , well , dying would actually be an easy way out . It 's hard to explain but it is when you 're all on your own in this country and you 've no idea where you are and no idea when something might happen and whether I 'll see Paul again . It 's just very , very despairing `` In a separate telephone interview 24 hours earlier , Paul Chandler , 59 , described how they were separated and savagely beaten . '' We tried to stay together and they threw us to the ground and whipped us and beat Rachel with a rifle butt and I was dragged off , taken to a different location . '' I was allowed to telephone her about 12 days ago . Se said she was being tormented all the time and then she said she was giving up . They 've lost patience . They set a deadline of three or four days , if they do n't hear , then they say they will let us die . '' We 're held in solitary confinement effectively . You know it 's just [ like being ] treated as a captive animal. `` It was not clear under what conditions the captives , who have been in sporadic telephone and video contact with journalists , had been allowed telephone access . ITN said both conversations had been shared with the British Home Office and his family . Britain 's Foreign and Commonwealth Office 's official line on hostages says `` the government will not make substantive concession for hostage takers , including the payments of ransom. `` Pirates have been very active off the east coast of Africa in the past several years , operating out of lawless Somalia . Last week , pirates attempted to hijack an Indian crude oil vessel 105 nautical miles from Somalia , the EU 's anti-piracy naval force said . The pirates opened fire on the ship and were later arrested . Piracy on the high-seas reached a six-year high in 2009 , according to the International Maritime Bureau , which monitors shipping crimes .""","""So why should merchant ships be required to go unarmed and defenseless in dangerous areas ?""",DISAGREE,"""Pirates have been very active off the east coast of Africa in the past several years , operating out of lawless Somalia""","""So why should merchant ships be required to go unarmed and defenseless in dangerous areas ?""",,
12174,3215,"""A British couple held hostage by pirates for more than three months have told of brutal treatment at the hand of their captors who they say are perilously close to killing them . In separate telephone interviews with CNN affiliate ITN , Paul and Rachel Chandler pleaded for help and spoke of their fears that they were just days away from death . An emotional Rachel Chandler also spoke of how she thought `` dying would actually be an easy way out `` and how she wanted to see her husband `` at least once before we die. `` The Chandlers were taken by pirates from their 38-foot yacht , the Lynn Rival , just days after setting sail from the Seychelles islands for Tanzania . Their captors initially demanded a ransom of $ 7 million , but the British government -- in line with longstanding policy -- has refused to pay . '' Please , please find a way of helping us because it really is a very desperate situation here , `` Rachel Chandler said in the latest interview , in which she said she had not seen her husband for two weeks since they were violently separated . '' I 've broken a tooth because I was hit on the head with something , probably the butt of a gun ... I do n't know ... and yes , so we have been physically attacked. `` Rachel Chandler , 55 , who along with her husband has been held for nearly 100 days , said the pirates had issued a new deadline . '' They 've just told me that if they do n't get the money within four or five days they 'll kill one of us. `` Audibly close to tears , she also asked for a message to be passed on to her husband . '' The message to him is hang on for me because I hope -- my biggest hope -- is that I shall see him at least once before we die. `` She added : `` It 's hard not to feel , well , dying would actually be an easy way out . It 's hard to explain but it is when you 're all on your own in this country and you 've no idea where you are and no idea when something might happen and whether I 'll see Paul again . It 's just very , very despairing `` In a separate telephone interview 24 hours earlier , Paul Chandler , 59 , described how they were separated and savagely beaten . '' We tried to stay together and they threw us to the ground and whipped us and beat Rachel with a rifle butt and I was dragged off , taken to a different location . '' I was allowed to telephone her about 12 days ago . Se said she was being tormented all the time and then she said she was giving up . They 've lost patience . They set a deadline of three or four days , if they do n't hear , then they say they will let us die . '' We 're held in solitary confinement effectively . You know it 's just [ like being ] treated as a captive animal. `` It was not clear under what conditions the captives , who have been in sporadic telephone and video contact with journalists , had been allowed telephone access . ITN said both conversations had been shared with the British Home Office and his family . Britain 's Foreign and Commonwealth Office 's official line on hostages says `` the government will not make substantive concession for hostage takers , including the payments of ransom. `` Pirates have been very active off the east coast of Africa in the past several years , operating out of lawless Somalia . Last week , pirates attempted to hijack an Indian crude oil vessel 105 nautical miles from Somalia , the EU 's anti-piracy naval force said . The pirates opened fire on the ship and were later arrested . Piracy on the high-seas reached a six-year high in 2009 , according to the International Maritime Bureau , which monitors shipping crimes .""","""So why should merchant ships be required to go unarmed and defenseless in dangerous areas ?""",DISAGREE,"""A British couple held hostage by pirates for more than three months have told of brutal treatment at the hand of their captors who they say are perilously close to killing them""","""why should merchant ships be required to go unarmed and defenseless in dangerous areas ?""",,
12173,3215,"""A British couple held hostage by pirates for more than three months have told of brutal treatment at the hand of their captors who they say are perilously close to killing them . In separate telephone interviews with CNN affiliate ITN , Paul and Rachel Chandler pleaded for help and spoke of their fears that they were just days away from death . An emotional Rachel Chandler also spoke of how she thought `` dying would actually be an easy way out `` and how she wanted to see her husband `` at least once before we die. `` The Chandlers were taken by pirates from their 38-foot yacht , the Lynn Rival , just days after setting sail from the Seychelles islands for Tanzania . Their captors initially demanded a ransom of $ 7 million , but the British government -- in line with longstanding policy -- has refused to pay . '' Please , please find a way of helping us because it really is a very desperate situation here , `` Rachel Chandler said in the latest interview , in which she said she had not seen her husband for two weeks since they were violently separated . '' I 've broken a tooth because I was hit on the head with something , probably the butt of a gun ... I do n't know ... and yes , so we have been physically attacked. `` Rachel Chandler , 55 , who along with her husband has been held for nearly 100 days , said the pirates had issued a new deadline . '' They 've just told me that if they do n't get the money within four or five days they 'll kill one of us. `` Audibly close to tears , she also asked for a message to be passed on to her husband . '' The message to him is hang on for me because I hope -- my biggest hope -- is that I shall see him at least once before we die. `` She added : `` It 's hard not to feel , well , dying would actually be an easy way out . It 's hard to explain but it is when you 're all on your own in this country and you 've no idea where you are and no idea when something might happen and whether I 'll see Paul again . It 's just very , very despairing `` In a separate telephone interview 24 hours earlier , Paul Chandler , 59 , described how they were separated and savagely beaten . '' We tried to stay together and they threw us to the ground and whipped us and beat Rachel with a rifle butt and I was dragged off , taken to a different location . '' I was allowed to telephone her about 12 days ago . Se said she was being tormented all the time and then she said she was giving up . They 've lost patience . They set a deadline of three or four days , if they do n't hear , then they say they will let us die . '' We 're held in solitary confinement effectively . You know it 's just [ like being ] treated as a captive animal. `` It was not clear under what conditions the captives , who have been in sporadic telephone and video contact with journalists , had been allowed telephone access . ITN said both conversations had been shared with the British Home Office and his family . Britain 's Foreign and Commonwealth Office 's official line on hostages says `` the government will not make substantive concession for hostage takers , including the payments of ransom. `` Pirates have been very active off the east coast of Africa in the past several years , operating out of lawless Somalia . Last week , pirates attempted to hijack an Indian crude oil vessel 105 nautical miles from Somalia , the EU 's anti-piracy naval force said . The pirates opened fire on the ship and were later arrested . Piracy on the high-seas reached a six-year high in 2009 , according to the International Maritime Bureau , which monitors shipping crimes .""","""So why should merchant ships be required to go unarmed and defenseless in dangerous areas ?""",DISAGREE,"""brutal treatment perilously CNN affiliate ITN `` dying would actually be an easy way out `` 38-foot yacht , Commonwealth Office 's lawless Somalia EU 's International Maritime Bureau""","""unarmed defenseless dangerous areas ?""",,
12178,3216,"""Four words that always gets an evolutionist into trouble , `` Evolution has been proven `` .""","""Really ? I do n't see myself in trouble for saying them . I stand by them , for they are truthful words .""",DISAGREE,"""Four words that always gets an evolutionist into trouble , `` Evolution has been proven `` .""","""I do n't see myself in trouble for saying them . I stand by them , for they are truthful words .""",,
12189,3217,"""why not ? Life is cheap and I hold no silly notions . Science should be used to benefit life , not ignored .""","""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""",AGREE,"""Science should be used to benefit life , not ignored .""","""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""",,
12187,3217,"""why not ? Life is cheap and I hold no silly notions . Science should be used to benefit life , not ignored .""","""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""",AGREE,"""Life is cheap and I hold no silly notions . Science should be used to benefit life , not ignored .""","""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""",,
12193,3218,"""For anti-choicers , it 's just about control and power over women . They do n't care about life . ( Except their own . )""","""That 's stupid ( and totally inaccurate ) . But I will say one thing - I would make partial birth abortion a federal crime with the death penalty for whoever performs one . And I 'd make their executions public and put them on pay TV , and use the proceeds to fund homes for unwed mothers , etc . Those late-term abortion butchers are the most despicable individuals known to mankind , and they deserve what they get .""",DISAGREE,"""anti-choicers do n't care about life . ( Except their own . )""","""abortion a the for executions to""",,
12241,3224,"""There will always be the silly argument that allowing people to own guns makes gun thefts more likely , thus putting guns in the hands of criminals ... making us all more unsafe .""","""That does n't sound silly to me .""",DISAGREE,"""There will always be the silly argument""","""That does n't sound silly to me .""",,
12247,3225,"""SS : says the mind controls the genes""","""And SS is once again wrong . If you really believe that then try to tell your genes to give you tiger stripes which will be inherited by your children . Good luck .""",DISAGREE,"""SS the mind controls the genes""","""SS is once again wrong . If you really believe that then try to tell your genes to give you tiger stripes which will be inherited by your children .""",,
12258,3227,"""Abortion targets a very specific group of human beings : unwanted , unborn children . Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide . The Convention defined genocide as any of a series of acts designed to `` destroy , in whole or in part , a national , ethnical , racial or religious group. `` The acts listed include among others , causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group , imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group or forcibly transferring children out of the group .""","""You 'll find that abortion targets none of these : `` national , ethnical , racial or religious group ( s ) . `` Unwanted , unborn children is not a specific group . Nor are members of any group specifically targeted for abortion . The practice in open to all in the US . Sorry . But all that shows is an abundant level of ignorance . Now , if you can show that abortion is only used to cull the Romany populations in East Europe ... then you may have a point .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion targets a very specific group of human beings `` imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group or forcibly transferring children out of the group""","""You 'll find that abortion targets none of these `` `` Unwanted , unborn children is not a specific group""",,
12269,3229,"""Well Whoop-Dee-Doo ! If you want Homosexual Marriage , be prepared to shell out more $ $ $ when Uncle Sam comes to collect when , in the inevitability , you should call it splitsville . Oh , wait a minute ! You have abso-freaking-lutely no qualms about forcing Mr. and Mrs. John Q . Taxpayer to pony up more dough , though , do ya ? ?""","""Forest for the freakin ' trees . So when heterosexual couples divorce , it 's all automatic and assumed . Gay and straight people alike help foot the bill . Straight couples `` have abso-freaking-lutely no qualms about forcing Mr. and Mrs. John Q . Taxpayer to pony up more dough `` ... But when it comes to homosexual couples divorcing , it 's only the gay individuals who `` shell out more $ $ $ `` . Can you explain why it 's just for gays to help pay for the divorce of straight couples , but the same is not done for gays ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you want Homosexual Marriage , be prepared to shell out more $ $ $""","""people alike help foot the bill ``""",,
12280,3231,"""Where do you get this BS from , Planned Parenthood ?""","""Why the cheap shot against pp ?""",DISAGREE,"""get this BS from , Planned Parenthood ?""","""Why the cheap shot""",,
12294,3234,"""If aliens were found , I would seriously question my belief . Besides , carbon dating is generally accurate on rocks up to the Flood , about 4,500 years ago , and can prove the age of the Earth ( and in that , the age of the universe ) to be over 3,000 years old .""","""I 'm surprised your belief rests on such a fragile concept .... for me that would be like the sword of Damocles forever hanging over my faith . A couple of technical points : there are no rocks that contain organic matter and are 4500 years old . Compacted sediments maybe . Also , where do you get the idea that carbon 14 dating is only accurate to 4500 years old ?""",DISAGREE,"""carbon dating is generally accurate on rocks""","""there are no rocks that contain organic matter""",,
12300,3235,"""Accidents happen , that 's just how life works . They 're tragic , and they 're upsetting , but there 's no way to avoid them .""","""I 've found a way to avoid gun accidents in my home .""",DISAGREE,"""Accidents happen""","""I 've found a way to avoid gun accidents in my home .""",,
12297,3235,"""Accidents happen , that 's just how life works . They 're tragic , and they 're upsetting , but there 's no way to avoid them .""","""I 've found a way to avoid gun accidents in my home .""",DISAGREE,"""Accidents happen , that 's just how life works . They 're tragic""","""I 've found a way to avoid gun accidents in my home .""",,
12317,3239,"""Here 's an example of how NS is nonrandom on the populational level :""","""We already accept that it is . You do n't have to convince us . However , consider what this does to your argument that natural selection is random .""",AGREE,"""NS is nonrandom on the populational level""","""We already accept that it is . However , consider what this does to your argument that natural selection is random .""",,
12323,3240,"""If drugs were more accessable we would likly have far less crime and far more drug adicts .""","""I think you might want to check your logic here ... As far as I am aware , drug addicts cause a great deal of crime to support their habit . As you are , I am not terribly fond of policing someone 's personal habits , but when drugs are the motivating force behind burglaries , assaults and muggings and addicts carry diseases such AIDS and tuberculosis then means of curtailing this should be explored . This may include policing or controlling the supply of drugs to an area to cut down and the amount of drugs sold , and thus less crime to support fewer habits . Easy access to drugs is , logically , part of the problem .""",DISAGREE,"""If drugs were more accessable we would likly have far less crime and far more drug adicts .""","""Easy access to drugs is , logically , part of the problem""",,
12328,3241,"""But felons ca n't vote and I do n't see that in the Constitution , either . I do n't have a problem with preventing criminals from legally owning firearms . That said , I think it 's against our rights to be assumed to be a criminal without ever being convicted of a crime .""","""Thats a rather shaky argument . In some place felons do vote . Our own fast eddie has them getting signed up while in prison . If you take a right and question it , then it is no longer a right . It has become a defacto privilige . If it was up to me , criminals would have their own sanctuary away from the law abiding after they serve their time .""",DISAGREE,"""felons ca n't vote Constitution preventing criminals from legally owning firearms""","""rather shaky argument signed up while in prison""",,
12363,3248,"""Translation : `` Shut up , I 'm right ! `` That 's a bit of a sidestep . Abortion is not genocide because abortion is not destruction of a certain group of people based on race , religion , ethnicity , etc . There is no way to make a case for abortion being genocide without making capitol punishment qualify as genocide . Frankly , I think it 's easier to do the latter ( yet most pro-lifers are also pro-death penalty ) . If you want to make an argument , then make an argument . But do n't call abortion genocide ; that 's just dumb .""","""Abortion targets a very specific group of human beings : unwanted , unborn children . Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide . The Convention defined genocide as any of a series of acts designed to `` destroy , in whole or in part , a national , ethnical , racial or religious group. `` The acts listed include among others , causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group , imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group or forcibly transferring children out of the group .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion is not genocide because abortion is not destruction of a certain group of people""","""Abortion targets a very specific group of human beings : unwanted , unborn children .""",,
12366,3249,"""With guns criminals can do even more damage .""","""Not really .""",DISAGREE,"""With guns criminals can do even more damage .""","""Not really .""",,
12376,3252,"""Any novel change/mutation in `` expression `` at the organismic level that can not be directly linked to a novel genetic mutation can only be EAM , aka Devo-Evo , ( that is , developmental evolution ) , a neo-lamarkian phenomenon . Why ? Because such a phenomenon nothing whatsoever to do with the darwinist , `` ToE `` , that is , that such novel trait changes/'expressions ' originate from -- `` Random Genetic Mutation `` , coincidentally expressed as some lucky organismic trait that `` Natural Selection `` does not eliminate before it is inherited by offspring . And there simply is no genetic mutation here . What it does show , empirically , are that organismic tyraits are not determined by genetic chemicals , but by the organism 's usage of those chemicals to its own purposes and advantage .""","""I will stop quoting here . Do n't want people to have too big a read . Actually ToE is n't all that random . To a certain degree yes . But Sexual Selection aka a part of the ToE . Dictates that when there is a benificial/attractive change . That change will be enhanced almost exponentially . Because the female of the species will be programmed to search for that and will carry the gene herself so will give it to her off spring . And the male will be more succesfull so produce more off spring . So no instant eyes or anything like that . I think that 's what you were implying . Sorry for responding in Kronus 's stead . I 'm sure he can defend himself but I found it unjust the way you replied to his post and attacked it on foundations that you did n't have .""",DISAGREE,"""Because such a phenomenon nothing whatsoever to do with the darwinist , `` ToE `` , that is , that such novel trait changes/'expressions ' originate from -- `` Random Genetic Mutation `` ,""","""degree yes . But Sexual Selection aka a part of the ToE . Dictates that when there is a benificial/attractive change .""",,
12377,3252,"""Any novel change/mutation in `` expression `` at the organismic level that can not be directly linked to a novel genetic mutation can only be EAM , aka Devo-Evo , ( that is , developmental evolution ) , a neo-lamarkian phenomenon . Why ? Because such a phenomenon nothing whatsoever to do with the darwinist , `` ToE `` , that is , that such novel trait changes/'expressions ' originate from -- `` Random Genetic Mutation `` , coincidentally expressed as some lucky organismic trait that `` Natural Selection `` does not eliminate before it is inherited by offspring . And there simply is no genetic mutation here . What it does show , empirically , are that organismic tyraits are not determined by genetic chemicals , but by the organism 's usage of those chemicals to its own purposes and advantage .""","""I will stop quoting here . Do n't want people to have too big a read . Actually ToE is n't all that random . To a certain degree yes . But Sexual Selection aka a part of the ToE . Dictates that when there is a benificial/attractive change . That change will be enhanced almost exponentially . Because the female of the species will be programmed to search for that and will carry the gene herself so will give it to her off spring . And the male will be more succesfull so produce more off spring . So no instant eyes or anything like that . I think that 's what you were implying . Sorry for responding in Kronus 's stead . I 'm sure he can defend himself but I found it unjust the way you replied to his post and attacked it on foundations that you did n't have .""",DISAGREE,"""organismic tyraits are not determined by genetic chemicals , but by the organism 's usage of those chemicals to its own purposes and advantage .""","""no instant eyes or anything like that . I think that 's what you were implying .""",,
12381,3253,"""In fact , the whole sacrafice of Jesus Christ was needed because of humanity 's sinful nature .""","""Jesus was a retarded ancient hippie who walked passed people who were starving and dying , yet did n't help them . Jesus is a man who ignored his family and considered his disciples family instead . Jesus is a man who did n't come to preach peace , but use a sword . Jesus is a man who did n't repudiate much of the Old Testament atrocities . Jesus is bad , and Jesus is GOd , therefore God is bad . I do n't care what the biblical stoner said .""",DISAGREE,"""humanity 's sinful nature""","""Jesus is bad , God is bad""",,
12385,3254,"""Since God is omnipotent that is true . Omni means all . Potent means able to have intercourse . Wow I think I may have won Hank 's debate and the only proof you need is at dictionary.com""","""Well as long as you ignore the evidence , why do you need proof . Blind faith works just fine .""",DISAGREE,"""God is omnipotent intercourse""","""ignore evidence , . faith""",,
12402,3265,"""The pro gun-control side tries to protect individual rights from being violated by criminals .""","""Really ? I have n't seen you post your support for any law or proposal that would punish criminals in the most severe ways possible . All I 've ever seen you post support for is more laws that criminalize things that are n't crimes and do nothing to harm others .""",DISAGREE,"""The pro gun-control side tries to protect individual rights from being violated by criminals .""","""I have n't seen you post your support for any law or proposal that would punish criminals in the most severe ways possible .""",,
12407,3266,"""How can we measure it ?""","""By measuring it 's effect .""",DISAGREE,"""How can we measure it ?""","""By measuring it 's effect .""",,
12409,3266,"""How can we measure it ?""","""By measuring it 's effect .""",DISAGREE,"""How can we measure it ?""","""By measuring it 's effect .""",,
12432,3272,"""All sin undermines society , including illicit gay sex sin . Or have you forgotten Sodom and Gomorrah ? Coming to a San Francisco bath house near you .""","""If the biblical lesson one is intended to take from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah were applied to a bath house or any service business it would eventually go BK . The two cities were not condemned because of rampant homosexual activities , you of course know this , it has been explained to you , it has been shown to you , but when you want to be right nothing else matters . Why is it that modern Christians have an undeniable obsession regarding homosexuals ? Jesus obviously did n't consider it worth mentioning , but he did have a problem with divorce . Yet that is a protected right . The Holy Mother Church will disobey Jesus and grant divorce , but holds on tight to another misinterpretation . The blind leading the blind in blissful ignorance . How pist will you be having to spend some time in the pit because of something like this ? Oh and unwarranted hatred while not specifically stated as a sin undermines society faster with more tangible and lasting effects than if you just got over it . Hey maybe if you ignore them they will go away . Try it and see if it works .""",DISAGREE,"""Sodom and Gomorrah Coming to a San Francisco bath house near you""","""If the biblical lesson one is intended to take from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah were applied to a bath house or any service business it would eventually go BK The two cities were not condemned because of rampant homosexual activities""",,
12439,3276,"""Now , who should we believe , the creator of the universe , or some scientist freaks who don ’ t even believe in God ? Astronomers claim they can see galaxies so far away , their light must be even older than the earth for them to be visible . But the Bible proves that ’ s impossible . When God created everything , he must have set the light from those galaxies already beaming towards the earth , j so that when he later gave us telescopes , we ’ d have more stuff to look at ! Heh , heh , is God unbelievable or what ? Now if you think that isn ’ t the work of a conscious , omnipotent being whose son on earth was Jesus Christ , you must be deluded or something .""","""Here , the atheist satirists assign perfection to  “ astronomers ” . They have no comprehension of God being above and beyond  “ time ” , and this causes them to feel that they ’ re on the same level as God , able to question him and challenge him to the same extent he can question us and challenge us . Yet they know that there are characteristics of reality that they themselves can not explain , though they probably seriously believe that astronomy is an exact , non-controversial science .""",DISAGREE,"""who should we believe , the creator of the universe , or some scientist freaks who don ’ t even believe in God ? Astronomers claim they can see galaxies so far away , their light must be even older than the earth for them to be visible""","""Here , the atheist satirists assign perfection to  astronomers they probably seriously believe that astronomy is an exact , non-controversial science .""",,
12458,3281,"""They assume that as evolution progressed - lots of elements of life are no longer useful .""","""That happens , too . For example , our gene for vitamin C is broken and no longer works .""",AGREE,"""as evolution progressed - lots of elements of life are no longer useful""","""That happens , too . For example , our gene for vitamin C is broken and no longer works .""",,
12494,3293,"""I have never been accosted by an armed assailant . Hence , I see no reason I need to carry a concealed handgun in order to be brave enough to move about my hometown .""","""Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house ? I have never had a fire in my kitchen but I still keep a fire extinguisher in there . I look at wearing firearms for self defense the same way I look at wearing a seat belt . I wear it and pray I 'll never need it , but I 'll be damn glad I 'm wearing it if I do need it . God Bless""",DISAGREE,"""I have never been accosted by an armed assailant .""","""I have never had a fire in my kitchen but I still keep a fire extinguisher in there .""",,
12505,3294,"""Sorry for responding in Kronus 's stead . I 'm sure he can defend himself but I found it unjust the way you replied to his post and attacked it on foundations that you did n't have .""","""Actually , I had no intention of responding to WW . As I 'm sure you can see by now , he does n't actually respond to what 's written , but rather just engages in lies and insults . He 's not worth the effort to debunk ; he 's self-debunking .""",DISAGREE,"""I found it unjust the way you replied to his post""","""He 's not worth the effort to debunk ; he 's self-debunking .""",,
12515,3295,"""For a 13 year old girl that could greatly damage her body to have a pregnancy so young . She is just starting to grow and mature , and its not healthy , natural , or right to have a pregnancy at that age . She could cause alot of damage being that young .""","""WhiteFalcon , at this point i would assume other members to say `` good , she desearves to have that damage done to her. `` White , i agree with you 100 percent . it would be dangerous to her and the baby either way .""",AGREE,"""She could cause alot of damage being that young""","""she desearves to have that damage done to her""",,
12513,3295,"""For a 13 year old girl that could greatly damage her body to have a pregnancy so young . She is just starting to grow and mature , and its not healthy , natural , or right to have a pregnancy at that age . She could cause alot of damage being that young .""","""WhiteFalcon , at this point i would assume other members to say `` good , she desearves to have that damage done to her. `` White , i agree with you 100 percent . it would be dangerous to her and the baby either way .""",AGREE,"""For a 13 year old girl that could greatly damage her body to have a pregnancy so young .""","""i agree with you 100 percent .""",,
12530,3297,"""Every system has its flaws . Does that mean that we should abolish every system ?""","""No , we should n't abolish every flawed system . However , when the flaw results in putting innocent people to death , it is not worth the risk . In 26 years the death penalty has been in effect in my home state of Illinois , there have been more people exonerated due to irrefutable evidence than have been put to death . I think that constitutes a serious problem .""",DISAGREE,"""Every system has its flaws . Does that mean that we should abolish every system ?""","""more people exonerated due to irrefutable evidence than have been put to death . I think that constitutes a serious problem .""",,
12550,3299,"""Simone , brain washing and programming works multiple ways . Everyone does it to some form or another . The only question would be is it harmful or exploitive to the one being manipulated ? If so , how can we tell ?""","""But , of course , religion is a mere matter of brainwashing and programming . Some people , very obviously , need this sort of intrusion into their lives because they ca n't figure it out for themselves . And , there are some very profound and meaningful religious teachings . However , if one is not permitted to question the tenets of a particular belief system , I find that dangerous . Like in your sect . You do expect complete obedience , do you not ? No questioning of your authority ?""",AGREE,"""brain washing and programming works multiple ways . Everyone does it to some form or another""","""Some people , very obviously , need this sort of intrusion into their lives because they ca n't figure it out for themselves""",,
12557,3301,"""carefully think about this statement . christianity is based upon the essential beliefs that : 1 . God is all-powerful 2. man is fallen and in need of redemption""","""Well , there is a little more to it than that , but agreed .""",AGREE,"""God is all-powerful 2. man is fallen and in need of redemption""","""there is a little more to it than that , but agreed .""",,
12567,3302,"""churches could shut down and not help strugling people with things like food and bills""","""Actually just as many atheist help the needy . Of course a person would need to be open-minded to realize it . Here is one such atheist charity . If you were open-minded about such things then you would have learned that both Bill Gates and Warren Buffett , who have each individually made the two largest charitable donations in American history , are both atheist ( Oops , bet that 's got ta kill your argument , huh ? ) and they can rightly claim credit for spurring many other ultra-rich to also be charitable . Ted Turner , the multi-billionaire , has also donated millions to others , and guess what grizzly6626 , he 's an atheist too ! George Soros , also a multi-billionaire , financier and philanthropist , has also donated millions and is also an atheist . The list goes on and on . You just do n't hear about these people donating because they tend to do these things quietly , and not with a lot of * cough * religious * cough * fanfare . Did n't mean to wake you up grizzly6626 BTW - many catholic charities are known to turn the needy away . I 've heard many accounts about how when some people first got married back in the 1970s , that catholic charities would n't help them out because they were not `` good , church-going catholics. `` Basically because they did n't go to church every week ( and put in their money filled envelope ) the Church did n't consider them worthy of help . You see , it is n't because religion makes people morally better than atheism . Rather , it would be because churches often organize charitable activities and encourage their members to participate , while atheists , simply have no comparable social structure . It 's not that churchgoers have a superior moral sentiment , just that because of their increased social structure they naturally have increased opportunity . There are countless amounts of people who are atheist that donate from the heart . They do not 'band together ' into groups like religions do , and they do not advertise their charitable works like religions do , but they donate from the heart just the same . Here is a partial list of many such individuals who just happen to also be atheist . But it goes MUCH further than that though . There are a few organizations formed by atheists for the sole purpose of donating to those in need . One such organization is called S.H.A.R.E . - Secular Humanist Aid and Relief Effort . Here is a recent story about them helping those in need . So , when someone ignorant and closed-minded like grizzly6626 tries to convince you that 'only religions ' donate or help those in need , you will now know that it 's simply not true , and that people from all beliefs , even those that do n't believe in God , help others in need and donate from their hearts , because they know it 's the right thing to do for their fellow man in need""",AGREE,"""shut down and not help strugling people with things like food and bills""","""Of course a person would need to be open-minded to realize it Here is one such atheist charity""",,
12585,3305,"""How can there be a gap in a theory that does not discuss what that subject in which the gap resides ? Evolution is the study of the change in allele frequencies . Non-life does not have alleles . Therefore evolution can not address or study the origins of life as those do not have alleles . You can not have a gap in something you do not study . Your argument is like saying that subject X is a gap in accounting when subject X is clearly a marketing issue . For someone who criticizes those who study and accept evolution for not studying ID , you seem to be guilty of the same .""","""So then you will agree that evolution is useless in getting at possible answers on what really matters , how we got here ? If you concede that then I 'm happy to end this discussion . I recall , however , visiting the Smithsonian and seeing a detailed description of how amino acids combined to form the building blocks of life . Evolutionary theory does address origins and its explanations are unsuppported by evidence . politicalref.com""",DISAGREE,"""evolution can not address or study the origins of life as those do not have alleles . You can not have a gap in something you do not study .""","""you will agree that evolution is useless in getting at possible answers on what really matters , how we got here ?""",,
12612,3311,"""1 . I do n't support mandatory sentencing guidelines . I prefer judges to actually do some judging . I do support latitude for DA 's when it comes to filing charges . This is SOP .""","""If someone gets busted for providing a firearm to a criminal there is already Serious jail time , regardless of what you say you want . If your law were to get enacted , what you say you wanted becomes totally irrelevant ! Totally Irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't support mandatory sentencing guidelines . I prefer judges to actually do some judging .""","""If someone gets busted for providing a firearm to a criminal there is already Serious jail time ,""",,
12621,3312,"""Guns do n't kill people . They just make people want to kill .""","""So in your own words the police want to go on murder sprees , because they 're armed . According to you the military is just waiting for the first convenient excuse to open fire on anyone , be them designated enemies or just innocent bystanders .""",DISAGREE,"""They just make people want to kill .""","""the police want to go on murder sprees , because they 're armed .""",,
12650,3317,"""Lol just ca n't keep a good thing down can you Gans ? I love how it is only you and Archie who have flocked to the thread in utter dismay ... I 'm sure Easy will be right behind carrying a crucifix to ward off the `` gay `` ..... And no I do not think it will be overturned and I am ecstatic that marriage equality has extended to our nations capitol . Let freedom ring baby ! ! ! !""","""You interpret my request that you follow the rules and post a link , flocking here in utter dismay on my part ? How consistently irrational of you jason . Anyway , it seems that you are celebrating prematurely at this point since Congress must approve this move before it 's a done deal . DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage ( AP ) – 4 hours ago WASHINGTON — Washington D.C. 's City Council has voted to legalize gay marriage in the nation 's capital . Mayor Adrian Fenty has promised to sign the bill , which was co-sponsored by 10 of the council 's 13 members . The final vote Tuesday was 11-2 . The bill now goes to Congress , which has final say over the district 's laws . Opponents say they 'll try to get Congress or voters to overturn it . Passage of the bill is a victory for gay marriage supporters , who have been dealt a recent string of defeats in Maine , New York and New Jersey . Gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts , Connecticut , Iowa and Vermont . New Hampshire will begin issuing licenses in January . If Congress does n't reject the bill , D.C. should start issuing marriage licenses around St. Patrick 's Day.The Associated Press : DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage""",DISAGREE,"""Lol just ca n't keep a good thing down can you Gans ? I love how it is only you and Archie who have flocked to the thread in utter dismay ... I 'm sure Easy will be right behind carrying a crucifix to ward off the `` gay""","""You interpret my request that you follow the rules and post a link , flocking here in utter dismay on my part ? How consistently irrational of you jason .""",,
12666,3320,"""I think this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court . But that of course is the fear that many have , i.e. , that gay marriage would be imposed via judicial fiat ( whether at the state or federal level ) rather than through legislative means .""","""So then you support a states right to stop all drivers on their borders and make them retest for drivers licenses and pay to register thier cars before being allowed to drive in the state ?""",DISAGREE,"""this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court .""","""support a states right to stop all drivers on their borders""",,
12663,3320,"""I think this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court . But that of course is the fear that many have , i.e. , that gay marriage would be imposed via judicial fiat ( whether at the state or federal level ) rather than through legislative means .""","""So then you support a states right to stop all drivers on their borders and make them retest for drivers licenses and pay to register thier cars before being allowed to drive in the state ?""",DISAGREE,"""I think this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court""","""So then you support a states right to stop all drivers on their borders""",,
12667,3321,"""Preliminary figures indicate that , as a whole , law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 4.4 percent in the number of violent crimes ....""","""Our emphasis on Police and crime fighting reduced crime . Not gun control ! Our murder rate is largely an Inner City drug and drug gang related problem . Fix that and then you will finally be doing something !""",AGREE,"""decrease of 4.4 percent in the number of violent crimes ....""","""Our emphasis on Police and crime fighting reduced crime . Not gun control !""",,
12676,3322,"""This is n't my position . I 'm arguing that your attempts to demonize magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds is foolish . Furthermore , if no honest citizen needs a 15 round magazine , then no police officer needs them either . If we can reload them quickly enough for it to not matter , then the police can do it too .""","""You deny what I wrote is your position . Well if your position is n't that `` it 's not necessary to have high capacity magazines because gun owners can reload quickly when defending themselves against criminals `` then logically your position must be that such high capacity magazines are necessary for self defense . But if such magazines would benefit law abiding citizens in an armed conflict then why could n't they also benefit criminals ?""",DISAGREE,"""if no honest citizen needs a 15 round magazine , then no police officer needs them either .""","""You deny what I wrote is your position .""",,
12698,3328,"""Humans attempt to create new species , such as breeding donkey with horses to get mules and lions with tigers to get ligers , but these `` NEW `` species are almost always born sterile and unable to perpetuate themselves .""","""Actually , breeding horses and donkeys is n't an effort to create a new species . Where did you get such a thoughtless idea . And neither is interbreeding lions and tigers . However , you do n't seem to be aware that neither ligers or tigons are sterile . They are capable of breeding with each other or with either of the parent species . And then there are polar bears and brown bears , which can and will interbreed if given the opportunity . And the offspring are perfectly fertile .""",DISAGREE,"""new species donkey horses lions tigers these `` NEW `` species are almost always born sterile""","""Actually , breeding horses and donkeys is n't an effort to create a new species . interbreeding lions and tigers neither ligers or tigons are sterile""",,
12702,3329,"""Gay Marriage does have a drastic affect on our society .""","""Prove it . Got any credible scientific or sociological studies ? NOPE , ya do n't . Did n't think so .""",DISAGREE,"""Gay Marriage does have a drastic affect on our society .""","""Prove it . Got any credible scientific or sociological studies ?""",,
12716,3333,"""Evolutionary biologist Richard Lewontin said :  “ we have a prior commitment to materialism . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world , but , on the contrary , that we are forced by our priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations , no matter how counter-intuitiveÂ…Moreover , that materialism is an absolute , for we can not allow a divine foot in the door. ”""","""Actually what scientists have is a provisional theory that material causes are sufficient to explain material outcomes . Its provisional and subject to falsification should anyone ever find a valid counter example . So far none such has turned up oddly enough . And yes under that assumption science must be agnostic . Just because GOD can not get a foot in the door does not imply that he can not stand outside the door does it ?""",DISAGREE,"""biologist materialism methods science on the contrary divine foot in the""","""scientists provisional theory material causes subject to falsification valid counter example GOD foot in the door""",,
12724,3335,"""We talk a lot about media bias , but sometimes the mainstream media goes so far beyond what should be acceptable fair and balanced reporting as to call into question their integrity . Like every other gun banner , she apparently sees the solution to gun crimes as taking guns away from the people who did n't commit the crime in the first place . ABC did n't stop there . Yesterday morning on `` Good Morning America , `` reporter David Muir continued the agenda-based `` reporting `` by proffering Michael Wolkowitz , a board member of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence , as an expert on firearms without bothering to mention that he was basing his whole argument on propaganda . In neither segment did ABC present the opposing viewpoint , choosing instead to promote their own biased agenda , including promoting yet another anti-gun piece they are planning to air this Friday entitled , `` If I Only Had a Gun , `` which Sawyer noted included a segment highlighting that `` since there is an impulse to think if I had a gun I could protect myself and others , we have an experience we 'll conduct based on a real incident in which we show you what happens. `` I 'm sure that reenactment will be completely unbiased and realistic , right ?""","""Well , so much for unbiased reporting !""",AGREE,"""I 'm sure that reenactment will be completely unbiased and realistic , right ?""","""Well , so much for unbiased reporting !""",,
12753,3356,"""First of all , death penalty cases usually cost more than keeping a prisoner alive for his life . http : //www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti ... did=108 & amp ; scid=7""","""It does n't have to be that way because it 's the death penalty . It 's that way because of our ever deteriorating legal system .""",DISAGREE,"""usually cost more""","""does n't have to be that way""",,
12758,3356,"""First of all , death penalty cases usually cost more than keeping a prisoner alive for his life . http : //www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti ... did=108 & amp ; scid=7""","""It does n't have to be that way because it 's the death penalty . It 's that way because of our ever deteriorating legal system .""",DISAGREE,"""death penalty cases usually cost more alive for his life""","""the death penalty our ever deteriorating legal system""",,
12769,3358,"""Many on the religious right claim a belief in the existence of Satan and blame him for many of the evils in this world . I am curious why people believe that Satan is responsible for those evils , not men and their weaknesses . If you believe that Satan exists , can you give a specific example of some human event where you think he had to have played a role ?""","""Oh , we already know a bunch of events that he played a role in . They even made it into a song ! Please allow me to introduce myself I 'm a man of wealth and taste I 've been around for long , long years Stole many man 's soul and faith And I was 'round when Jesus Christ Had his moment of doubt and pain Made damn sure that Pilate Washed his hands and sealed his fate Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game I stuck around St. Petersburg When I saw it was a time for a change Killed the Czar and his ministers Anastasia screamed in vain I rode a tank Held a general 's rank When the blitzkrieg raged And the bodies stank Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name , oh yeah Ah , what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , oh yeah ( woo woo , woo woo ) I watched with glee While your kings and queens Fought for ten decades For the gods they made ( woo woo , woo woo ) I shouted out , `` Who killed the Kennedys ? `` When after all It was you and me ( who who , who who ) Let me please introduce myself I 'm a man of wealth and taste And I laid traps for troubadours Who get killed before they reached Bombay ( woo woo , who who ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , oh yeah ( who who ) But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , oh yeah , get down , baby ( who who , who who ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , oh yeah But what 's confusing you Is just the nature of my game ( woo woo , who who ) Just as every cop is a criminal And all the sinners saints As heads is tails Just call me Lucifer 'Cause I 'm in need of some restraint ( who who , who who ) So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy , and some taste ( woo woo ) Use all your well-learned politesse Or I 'll lay your soul to waste , um yeah ( woo woo , woo woo ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , um yeah ( who who ) But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , um mean it , get down ( woo woo , woo woo ) Woo , who Oh yeah , get on down Oh yeah Oh yeah ! ( woo woo ) Tell me baby , what 's my name Tell me honey , can ya guess my name Tell me baby , what 's my name I tell you one time , you 're to blame Oh , who woo , woo Woo , who Woo , woo Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Oh , yeah What 's my name Tell me , baby , what 's my name Tell me , sweetie , what 's my name Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Oh , yeah Woo woo Woo woo ~Sympathy for the Devil ; by the Rolling Stones""",AGREE,"""Many on the religious right claim a belief in the existence of Satan and blame him for many of the evils in this world .""","""we already know a bunch of events that he played a role in""",,
12765,3358,"""Many on the religious right claim a belief in the existence of Satan and blame him for many of the evils in this world . I am curious why people believe that Satan is responsible for those evils , not men and their weaknesses . If you believe that Satan exists , can you give a specific example of some human event where you think he had to have played a role ?""","""Oh , we already know a bunch of events that he played a role in . They even made it into a song ! Please allow me to introduce myself I 'm a man of wealth and taste I 've been around for long , long years Stole many man 's soul and faith And I was 'round when Jesus Christ Had his moment of doubt and pain Made damn sure that Pilate Washed his hands and sealed his fate Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game I stuck around St. Petersburg When I saw it was a time for a change Killed the Czar and his ministers Anastasia screamed in vain I rode a tank Held a general 's rank When the blitzkrieg raged And the bodies stank Pleased to meet you Hope you guess my name , oh yeah Ah , what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , oh yeah ( woo woo , woo woo ) I watched with glee While your kings and queens Fought for ten decades For the gods they made ( woo woo , woo woo ) I shouted out , `` Who killed the Kennedys ? `` When after all It was you and me ( who who , who who ) Let me please introduce myself I 'm a man of wealth and taste And I laid traps for troubadours Who get killed before they reached Bombay ( woo woo , who who ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , oh yeah ( who who ) But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , oh yeah , get down , baby ( who who , who who ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , oh yeah But what 's confusing you Is just the nature of my game ( woo woo , who who ) Just as every cop is a criminal And all the sinners saints As heads is tails Just call me Lucifer 'Cause I 'm in need of some restraint ( who who , who who ) So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy , and some taste ( woo woo ) Use all your well-learned politesse Or I 'll lay your soul to waste , um yeah ( woo woo , woo woo ) Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name , um yeah ( who who ) But what 's puzzling you Is the nature of my game , um mean it , get down ( woo woo , woo woo ) Woo , who Oh yeah , get on down Oh yeah Oh yeah ! ( woo woo ) Tell me baby , what 's my name Tell me honey , can ya guess my name Tell me baby , what 's my name I tell you one time , you 're to blame Oh , who woo , woo Woo , who Woo , woo Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Oh , yeah What 's my name Tell me , baby , what 's my name Tell me , sweetie , what 's my name Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Woo , who , who Oh , yeah Woo woo Woo woo ~Sympathy for the Devil ; by the Rolling Stones""",AGREE,"""claim a belief in the existence of Satan specific example of some human event""","""bunch of events that he played a role in""",,
12771,3359,"""You claim that the distinction between a baby being a bodily function of a woman or not is a matter of  “ empirical fact ” , this is just not so . I think you should rethink what  “ empirical fact ” is . Empirical fact , are facts that are said to be true on the basis of empirical observation . If I see a light on in a room , that is an empirical observation , and for me , that the light is on , is an empirical fact . However , if you and I both empirically observe at a fetus in a womb then the only empirical fact we could both agree on , I think , is that there is indeed a fetus in a womb . I say that fetus is part of a persons body performing a function , you say its something else , and that ’ s a mater if ideology , not mere observation .""","""So for example if I say `` you are a part of my body , and therefore I have a right to kill you `` , is this simply a matter of ideology ? I admit the distinction is not clearcut at early stages of development , but how do you support the idea that post-birth children are `` a part `` of their mothers ' bodies and therefore legitimate to kill ? It is no more legitimate to say that a fetus is a part of a woman 's body than it is to say that a woman is a part of a fetus ' body . Just as a woman is not a subordinate slave to the fetus within her , the fetus can not be considered subordinate in rights to the woman it is inside .""",DISAGREE,"""claim distinction , you empirical observation""","""matter of ideology distinction is not clearcut""",,
12784,3361,"""The bahavior is only `` morally corrupted `` if there is , in fact , something wrong with what they did . I do n't see it .""","""Let 's make sure we 're talking about the same thing here Art . You do n't find this reprehensible ? FROM THE OP : According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health , she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl . What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate : One of the clinic 's owners , who has no medical license , cut the infant 's umbilical cord . Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.You do n't see placing a live new born baby in a bio hazard bag and throwing it into a trash receptacle as medical staff stood by and watched as shocking and disgraceful ? Not to mention murder ? Is that what you 're telling me ?""",AGREE,"""The bahavior is only `` morally corrupted `` if there is , in fact , something wrong with what they did I do n't see it""","""Let 's make sure we 're talking about the same thing here You do n't find this reprehensible ? shocking and disgraceful Not to mention murder ? Is that what you 're telling me ?""",,
12796,3365,"""I thought I got to the substance of your argument quite well , and prefer not to drone on with a million quotes . If you want to press your argument further you will need to construct an argument as to why `` putting someone in the position `` obligates you to sustain their life , and when doing so you may want to examine the consequences of that position , to see if you can apply it consistently . You put it there therefore you are responsible for it is n't , in itself , an argument .""","""You are , in effect , telling me that putting someone in a position that will inevitable leave them dead does not make you responsible for their death . If I fire a bullet at your head , while that bullet is in mid-air , I am no longer doing anything to hurt you , and you are fine . However , I have set in motion affects that will result in your demise . This makes me responsible for your death .""",DISAGREE,"""If you want to press your argument further you will need to construct an argument as to why `` putting someone in the position `` obligates you to sustain their life You put it there therefore you are responsible for it is n't , in itself , an argument .""","""You are , in effect , telling me that putting someone in a position that will inevitable leave them dead does not make you responsible for their death .""",,
12798,3366,"""It becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys . Except for his amazing exception to science in the virgin birth of Jesus , he seems to allow evolutionistic pronouncements to have priority over Biblical statements . Then ALL the basics of Christianity , the nature of God and central New Testament teachings , including the way the sinner Adam ( one man ) and the Savior Jesus ( one man ) are linked together in Romans 5 , 16-18 , are trivialized just the way atheists love . No wonder they 're so comfortable with theistic evolution !""","""Actually , you could probably make your point better if you referred to a `` theistic evolutionist `` who rejected all creation stories ( and other history ) in the bible . As for your point itself , it is fairly correct ( in my opinion ) . Theistic evolution makes no assertions that contradict either evolutionary theory or the teachings of the bible ( morals , etc. ) . This presents no problems for atheistic evolutionists .""",AGREE,"""It becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys No wonder they 're so comfortable with theistic evolution !""","""Actually you could probably make your point better if you referred to a `` theistic evolutionist `` As for your point itself , it is fairly correct Theistic evolution makes no assertions that contradict either evolutionary theory or the teachings of the bible""",,
12799,3366,"""It becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys . Except for his amazing exception to science in the virgin birth of Jesus , he seems to allow evolutionistic pronouncements to have priority over Biblical statements . Then ALL the basics of Christianity , the nature of God and central New Testament teachings , including the way the sinner Adam ( one man ) and the Savior Jesus ( one man ) are linked together in Romans 5 , 16-18 , are trivialized just the way atheists love . No wonder they 're so comfortable with theistic evolution !""","""Actually , you could probably make your point better if you referred to a `` theistic evolutionist `` who rejected all creation stories ( and other history ) in the bible . As for your point itself , it is fairly correct ( in my opinion ) . Theistic evolution makes no assertions that contradict either evolutionary theory or the teachings of the bible ( morals , etc. ) . This presents no problems for atheistic evolutionists .""",AGREE,"""becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys""","""As for your point itself , it is fairly correct ( in my opinion ) . Theistic evolution makes no assertions that contradict either evolutionary theory or the teachings of the bible ( morals , etc. ) . This presents no problems for atheistic evolutionists .""",,
12824,3372,"""`` However , the Bureau of Alcohol , Tobacco , Firearms , and Explosives ( ATF ) reports that 30 percent of guns involved in federal illegal gun trafficking investigations are connected to gun shows. `` Gun Show Undercover : The Investigation""","""And how would they be able to trace those 30 percent back to gun shows , if there are no background checks carried out ? Hm ? Care to explain that one for the rest of the class ? If they 're coming from private transactions , then there 's no record , and the number made up is pure BS . If they came from a licensed dealer who was doing business at a gun show , then it would be no different from them being traced to a licensed gun store .""",DISAGREE,"""However , the Bureau of Alcohol , Tobacco , Firearms , and Explosives ( ATF ) reports that 30 percent of guns involved in federal illegal gun trafficking investigations are connected to gun shows. `` Gun Show Undercover : The Investigation""","""And how would they be able to trace those 30 percent back to gun shows , if there are no background checks carried out ? Hm ? Care to explain that one for the rest of the class ? If they 're coming from private transactions , then there 's no record , and the number made up is pure BS . If they came from a licensed dealer who was doing business at a gun show , then it would be no different from them being traced to a licensed gun store""",,
12831,3373,"""The problem is that a lot of people feel that there has been a concerted effort for a long time now to get homosexuality in the face of people as much as possible . How many children 's books are about two people falling in love , period ( regardless of gay or straight ) ? I 've got children and we run across a LOT of books . Few are about that . Now young adult books are a different story . But not children 's books . So if these children 's books are about gay people falling in love , they were written that way on purpose . So my question is , why ca n't gay people just write honest children 's books with NO agenda ? If these books have gay relationships in them , and they are children 's books , then there is every reason to believe they were written that way as an agenda . And I 'd say for a book titled Heather Has Two Moms , an agenda is pretty obvious . Sheesh , whatever happened to good 'ol Dr. Seuss ?""","""So it is a bad thing that children read about people and families that exisist and that they are likely to come across ? What about King and King ? That is a story of a prince falling in love with another prince . If King and king has an agenda then so does snow white , cinderella , Repunzel , and sleeping beauty . Ever read the real stories for yourself , not the cleaned up Disney versions , they are gruesome little tales that would give any child nightmares and make King and King look tame .""",DISAGREE,"""The problem is that a lot of people feel that there has been a concerted effort for a long time now to get homosexuality in the face of people as much as possible . How many children 's books are about two people falling in love , period ( regardless of gay or straight ) ? I 've got children and we run across a LOT of books . Few are about that . Now young adult books are a different story . But not children 's books . So if these children 's books are about gay people falling in love , they were written that way on purpose . So my question is , why ca n't gay people just write honest children 's books with NO agenda ? If these books have gay relationships in them , and they are children 's books , then there is every reason to believe they were written that way as an agenda . And I 'd say for a book titled Heather Has Two Moms , an agenda is pretty obvious . Sheesh , whatever happened to good 'ol Dr. Seuss""","""So it is a bad thing that children read about people and families that exisist and that they are likely to come across ? What about King and King ? That is a story of a prince falling in love with another prince . If King and king has an agenda then so does snow white , cinderella , Repunzel , and sleeping beauty . Ever read the real stories for yourself , not the cleaned up Disney versions , they are gruesome little tales that would give any child nightmares and make King and King look tame .""",,
12834,3374,"""If the Senate does agree to the legislation , Connecticut becomes the first state to voluntarily establish civil unions .""","""So laws passed by the legislature are `` state approved `` while rulings of the courts are not ? The media portrayal of gay rights is always awful .""",DISAGREE,"""the first state civil""","""So laws are state approved while rulings are not""",,
12847,3377,"""I have worked with a few weed addicts too . I am glad companies drug test becuase of this . These fools look stoned 24/7 after awhile and are the worst employees on earth .""","""Maybe they just drink too much coffee . And you probably work with more `` reefer heads `` than you think .""",DISAGREE,"""These fools look stoned 24/7 after awhile and are the worst employees on earth .""","""Maybe they just drink too much coffee . ``""",,
12857,3379,"""I believe there is .""","""So you dont know ?""",DISAGREE,"""I believe there is""","""So you dont know ?""",,
12870,3382,"""Perhaps also you might want to consider where you should have posted this thread as it has nothing to do with Creation -v- Evolution .""","""On the contrary ... These individuals ( or individual -- whichever it may be ) , contributed significantly to the creation/evolution forum . Evidently , each one of them at some point posted something deemed worthy to have them banned by the forum moderators according to the subjective rules of the forum . Their presence is missed . I figured this would be the one forum that would most likely catch their attention , should they be perusing through . Without the strong presence of a resident biologist , my opinion is that this forum has limited opportunities to learn new and interesting information about evolution . Such information can help individuals see evolution as reasonable instead of perceiving it as something evil that is devoid of God , or put in their minds by the devil , etc . If the moderators feel that this is not an appropriate post for this forum , then they have to make the call to delete it . Just to make it a debate , though , I 'll pose this question : * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Does anyone else miss the presence of any one of the individuals who was behind the usernames of Lurch and Ungerdunn ? Why or why not ? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *""",DISAGREE,"""it has nothing to do with Creation -v- Evolution .""","""Such information can help individuals see evolution as reasonable instead of perceiving it as something evil that is devoid of God , or put in their minds by the devil , etc . If the moderators""",,
12882,3384,"""You see , if pro-choicers only used the 'pregnancy-is-bad-if-forced argument , they might have a point , but they often do n't add the last part .""","""Pregnancy is always harmful to the woman 's body . However , if the pregnancy is desired then the changes are welcomed by the woman . To a woman who does not want to be pregnant then those changes are very unwelcome and are a bad thing . Pregnancy is always harmful , but the perception of what is happening changes depending on the woman . You do not understand that whether or not pregnancy harms the woman 's body is objective , but whether or not the woman wants the pregnancy anyway depends on the woman . You are mixing the two .""",DISAGREE,"""if pro-choicers only used the 'pregnancy-is-bad-if-forced argument , they might have a point , but they often do n't add the last part .""","""Pregnancy is always harmful to the woman 's body .""",,
12901,3387,"""Are you saying that the only kids adopted are white ? If that 's the case , you need to go outside and talk to more people , because I now a great deal of `` colored `` people who were adopted .""","""Well , if you know people of color who are adopted then that must mean that there is no problem with the number of children of color who ca n't be placed in adopted homes !""",DISAGREE,"""I now a great deal of `` colored `` people who were adopted .""","""Well , if you know people of color who are adopted then that must mean that there is no problem with the number of children of color who ca n't be placed in adopted homes !""",,
12896,3387,"""Are you saying that the only kids adopted are white ? If that 's the case , you need to go outside and talk to more people , because I now a great deal of `` colored `` people who were adopted .""","""Well , if you know people of color who are adopted then that must mean that there is no problem with the number of children of color who ca n't be placed in adopted homes !""",DISAGREE,"""Are you saying that the only kids adopted are white ? of `` colored `` people who were adopted .""","""if you know people of color who are adopted then that must mean that there is no problem number of children of color who ca n't be placed in adopted homes !""",,
12916,3391,"""And , regardless of whether 99.9 % of the people in the US approve of the court 's decision in Roe , that decision would still be judicial activism , and as such , would still merit reversal by the Supreme Court .""","""No more so than the Scalia/Uncle Clarence Thomas cabal opining that the words NO LAW mean something other than what they do when they rule in a First Amendment case .""",DISAGREE,"""And , regardless of whether 99.9 % of the people in the US approve of the court 's decision in Roe , that decision would still be judicial activism , and as such , would still merit reversal by the Supreme Court .""","""No more so than the Scalia/Uncle Clarence Thomas cabal opining that the words NO LAW mean something other than what they do when they rule in a First Amendment case""",,
12917,3392,"""There are no new forms of life emerging .""","""Wrong .""",DISAGREE,"""There are no new forms of life emerging .""","""Wrong .""",,
12937,3397,"""If I serve you Zachvac , will you bless me with great wealth ?""","""Worship not money , and I will bless you .""",DISAGREE,"""If I serve you Zachvac , will you bless me with great wealth ?""","""Worship not money , and I will bless you .""",,
12955,3400,"""Don ’ t expect the recent retractions and exonerations to change that . One of the strongest , most-repeated findings in the psychology of belief is that once people have been told X , especially if X is shocking , if they are later told ,  “ No , we were wrong about X ,  ” most people still believe X . As Twain and Churchill knew , sometimes the truth never catches up with the lie , let alone overtakes it . As I wrote last summer in a story about why people believe lies even when they ’ re later told the truth , sometimes people ’ s mental processes simply go off the rails .""","""Absolutely true ! I discovered that with my fluoride research ... For whatever reason , most people take another 's word for what the truth actually is instead of searching for it themselves . If the lie is an easier pill to swallow than the truth pill , they 'll take the lie .""",AGREE,"""sometimes the truth never catches up with the lie , let alone overtakes it""","""Absolutely true ! I discovered that with my fluoride research""",,
12962,3401,"""I admitted I may be wrong about my history . I notice that you have n't yet provided any documentation that I am .""","""So let me get this straight - you admit that you are wrong , and you want me to provide documentation to prove this admission correct ? How about we both simply agree that you were wrong and move on .""",DISAGREE,"""I admitted I may be wrong about my history .""","""So let me get this straight - you admit that you are wrong , and you want me to provide documentation to prove this admission correct ?""",,
12971,3410,"""A second chance to make it right .""","""While your story is a sad one I disagree that you should be happy with having a `` second chance `` . I believe this because you gave your unborn child no chance . I probably should n't say `` you `` because it seems like you did n't have a choice in the matter . Anyway , thank you for sharing your story and welcome to the forums .""",DISAGREE,"""A second chance to make it right""","""Anyway , thank you for sharing your story and welcome to the forums .""",,
12985,3411,"""The `` Big Bang `` theory is just a story that somebody made up ...""","""That `` somebody `` was a Jesuit priest , the idea met some initial resistance because of it 's religious overtones . But the overwhelming evidence in favor of it carried the day . You should study some history too .""",DISAGREE,"""The `` Big Bang `` theory is just a story that somebody made up ...""","""That `` somebody `` was a Jesuit priest""",,
12997,3412,"""In the first trimester there is no consciousness and no possibility of pain . This method is safe for the woman .""","""So we should only feel compassion if there is pain ?""",DISAGREE,"""no possibility of pain .""","""we should only feel compassion if there is pain ?""",,
12990,3412,"""In the first trimester there is no consciousness and no possibility of pain . This method is safe for the woman .""","""So we should only feel compassion if there is pain ?""",DISAGREE,"""In the first trimester there is no consciousness and no possibility of pain . This method is safe for the woman .""","""So we should only feel compassion if there is pain ?""",,
12999,3413,"""Why are you blaming me ? What did I do ? How can you stop it from happening ? You are good at flaming rhetoric but apparently you do n't have an actual clue on what you are asking . You want us all in the exact same position as Ms. Ross ! Peaceful , compliant victims of vicious predators ! By the way , did you see this ? If you had your way , I would be dead too ! Na ! I think I will keep my rights , and you can keep your pipe dreams of a violence free society !""","""Oh good grief ! I have always lived in rough areas . In one city , Alburquerque , a drug deal went sour 10 feet fom where I slept , and a guy had his head blasted away by a shotgun . Where I worked , less than a block away , a gunner massacred everyone in a video rental place . I was even obliged to ferry a guy with a slash on his throat to an ER , I did n't know the stupid beast , I was scared to death , but I felt it my Christian duty ( even though I am not a Christian ) to get the guy to where he could get treatment . And I do n't own a damned gun because I am not chicken-hearted .""",DISAGREE,"""Peaceful , compliant victims of vicious predators !""","""And I do n't own a damned gun because I am not chicken-hearted .""",,
13012,3414,"""For those who are pro-life , how much of a role does your belief in a soul ( assuming you hold such beliefs ) play into your views on abortion ? To explore this , would your views on a particular abortion change if you knew for certain that a particular fetus has no soul ? The reason I bring this up is that , for those of us with largely secular views , the idea of the soul is closely analogous to our idea of mental existence , sentience , etc . I suspect , therefore , that much of our thinking may end up being similar but that you view this mental essence as starting at conception and we take the scientific view of it happenning much later in a pregnancy . I know that , apart from that arguement , you value potential more than we do . However , I suspect that concepts of the soul do play a role in the views of most on the pro-life side . Would you be willing to discuss such ideas ?""","""I think more than this is the principle of human dignity . That humans have inherent dignity and value at every stage of life . This is transcendent of whether they are conscious or unconscious and it is why we treat 24 week premies who have no real conscious existence and a 30 year old automobile accident victim in a coma on a respirator and you and me the same . So strongly do humans recognize this inherent dignity that even in death a person is dignified with a funeral ceremony recognizing their life had inherent meaning and value . We build memorials to those who were victimized in life .""",DISAGREE,"""that much of our thinking may end up being similar but that you view this mental essence as starting at conception and we take the scientific view of it happenning much later in a pregnancy .""","""more than this is the principle of human dignity .""",,
13019,3415,"""3 . The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection .""","""Well , in the sense that we can not actually detect the intelligent design Behe proposes , then it it OUTSIDE the limit of actual detection .""",DISAGREE,"""The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection .""","""then it it OUTSIDE the limit of actual detection .""",,
13030,3416,"""It predicts that man has always been intelligent and ancient language and buildings confirm this .""","""So do 25,000 year old cave paintings .""",AGREE,"""It predicts that man has always been intelligent""","""So do 25,000 year old cave paintings .""",,
13026,3416,"""It predicts that man has always been intelligent and ancient language and buildings confirm this .""","""So do 25,000 year old cave paintings .""",AGREE,"""It predicts that man has always been intelligent and ancient language and buildings confirm this .""","""So do 25,000 year old cave paintings .""",,
13039,3419,"""YEC really si n't an issue here .""","""If anyone is pushing ID , YEC is an issue . ID as a `` foot in the door `` maneuver in an effort to teach science . The problem is that most school boards are made up of Christians who think that their religion is somehow supported by science , and they do n't see the harm in teaching their idea of god as science . You seem to fit that picture pretty well .""",DISAGREE,"""YEC really si n't an issue here .""","""YEC is an issue .""",,
13045,3422,"""then why ca n't a man opt out of fatherhood when a mass of tissue is just that a mass a tissue .""","""I believe a man should be able to opt out of fatherhood . The problem with this article for me is the moral ambiguity - there is no consistent argument laid out for free choice , that is choice for women and men , or even one for consistent slavery ( forced births from women , forced money from men ) . It reeks of the vindictiveness that can be seen in any number of fringe movements , of the `` I do n't really care whether we live in a just society , as long as you 're not treated better than me `` . So yes , I `` a real pro-choicer `` agree with Matt here , the pro-choicers who are portrayed as disagreeing appear to be some kind of stereotyped 1970s feminist-socialist-activist-bra-burning type .""",AGREE,"""why ca n't a man opt out of fatherhood when a mass of tissue is just that a mass a""","""I believe a man should be able to opt out of fatherhood .""",,
13061,3426,"""How can we test it ?""","""By creating an experiment in which we observe it taking place .""",AGREE,"""How can we test it ?""","""By creating an experiment in which we observe it taking place .""",,
13073,3429,"""Surely you understand that this is not the same as providing evidence for creationism . Disproving one theory does not prove another . All it does is disprove a theory .""","""Yes I do understand this . But you must admit that the instantaneous formation of a living organism , even an extremely primitive one , complete with the complexity of the DNA code as a result of random encounters of atoms and molecules is a little too much to buy . There is evidence right there for creationism . Only intelligence could have formed such an elaborate complex system for the structure of life and its propagation .""",AGREE,"""Surely you understand that this is not the same as providing evidence""","""even an extremely primitive one , complete with the complexity of the DNA""",,
13079,3430,"""What would you consider as constituting the soul if it does not include our personalities ? As for god , I agree that the existence of god is not disproven but the discoveries of Science have very much limited the detailed roles that were originally ascribed to him . What , then , is left for the role of god ? What `` evidence `` is there for God ? Are you speaking of people 's personal experiences ? I always wondered what specifically in those experiences made people think that they were experiencing God - where they thought that no other explanations could be valid . I agree that one can always think of ways to claim that scientific evidence of , say , Evolution was purposely planted by God as a test of mankind , and other such explanations . If one assumes an omnipotent God , then ANY evidence or logic can be discarded . It just seems that many of those who discard scientific findings jump through tremendous hoops to avoid addressing the evidence .""","""I would say that the soul is that part of us that is immortal . It is our essence . Our personality may impact or is impacted by it , but I would say it is far more . Indeed , I would say it is what psychologists call emergent downward causality . As for the role of God , science has not disproven any of it . Science has explained how things occur but that does not eliminate the possibility of god nor does it limit what god does . We would simply not be understanding gods fit in the science of it . That makes sense given that god is considered infinite and we are finite . I think the soul is what gives us the possibility of even imagining the infinite . The idea that we can see beyond what we are or even to conceptualize such things gives a clue that there is more to us than meets the eye . I do not see why God and science can not coexist . Even evolution and creation . Forget planting evidence . That is too far fetched . I would rather think that it is more likely that what God says actually fits the evidence even though we can not understand it . I do not know about God or `` not god `` ( if you will ) but if there is a God then the idea that he is beyond what I can actually conceive and yet completely conceivable makes sense for that kind of being . It should be an apparent paradox to me . If it is not , then my concept of God is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to small to be of any use to anyone . Huck .""",DISAGREE,"""What would you consider as constituting the soul if it does not include our personalities ? As for god , I agree that the existence of god is not disproven but the discoveries of Science have very much limited the detailed roles that were originally ascribed to him . ``""","""I would say that the soul is that part of us that is immortal . It is our essence . Our personality may impact or is impacted by it , but I would say it is far more . ``""",,
13078,3430,"""What would you consider as constituting the soul if it does not include our personalities ? As for god , I agree that the existence of god is not disproven but the discoveries of Science have very much limited the detailed roles that were originally ascribed to him . What , then , is left for the role of god ? What `` evidence `` is there for God ? Are you speaking of people 's personal experiences ? I always wondered what specifically in those experiences made people think that they were experiencing God - where they thought that no other explanations could be valid . I agree that one can always think of ways to claim that scientific evidence of , say , Evolution was purposely planted by God as a test of mankind , and other such explanations . If one assumes an omnipotent God , then ANY evidence or logic can be discarded . It just seems that many of those who discard scientific findings jump through tremendous hoops to avoid addressing the evidence .""","""I would say that the soul is that part of us that is immortal . It is our essence . Our personality may impact or is impacted by it , but I would say it is far more . Indeed , I would say it is what psychologists call emergent downward causality . As for the role of God , science has not disproven any of it . Science has explained how things occur but that does not eliminate the possibility of god nor does it limit what god does . We would simply not be understanding gods fit in the science of it . That makes sense given that god is considered infinite and we are finite . I think the soul is what gives us the possibility of even imagining the infinite . The idea that we can see beyond what we are or even to conceptualize such things gives a clue that there is more to us than meets the eye . I do not see why God and science can not coexist . Even evolution and creation . Forget planting evidence . That is too far fetched . I would rather think that it is more likely that what God says actually fits the evidence even though we can not understand it . I do not know about God or `` not god `` ( if you will ) but if there is a God then the idea that he is beyond what I can actually conceive and yet completely conceivable makes sense for that kind of being . It should be an apparent paradox to me . If it is not , then my concept of God is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to small to be of any use to anyone . Huck .""",DISAGREE,"""As for god , I agree that the existence of god is not disproven but the discoveries of Science have very much limited the detailed roles""","""As for the role of God , science has not disproven any of it .""",,
13084,3431,"""What is a Christian agnostic ? ( Never heard of them . )""","""An agnostic believes gods can not be logically known ( ie require faith ) . One can believe in the Christian god at the same time .""",DISAGREE,"""Christian agnostic""","""An agnostic believes gods can not be logically known ( ie require faith ) . One can believe in the Christian god at the same time .""",,
13091,3433,"""Same number of grains of sand , same number of blades of grass , same number of humans who look exactly like each one of us , doing exactly the same things at exactly the same times . Anything anyone could imagine would HAVE to be out there somewhere . There would be planets exactly like this only dogs rule , or others exactly like this where cats rule .""","""Again , logically incorrect . That 's like saying there must be a world just like this one where water flows uphill - clearly that 's nonsense : this world has been shaped by forces that ensure water flows downhill .""",DISAGREE,"""Anything anyone could imagine would HAVE to be out there somewhere .""","""Again , logically incorrect . That 's like saying there must be a world just like this one where water flows uphill - clearly that 's nonsense : this world has been shaped by forces that ensure water flows downhill .""",,
13094,3433,"""Same number of grains of sand , same number of blades of grass , same number of humans who look exactly like each one of us , doing exactly the same things at exactly the same times . Anything anyone could imagine would HAVE to be out there somewhere . There would be planets exactly like this only dogs rule , or others exactly like this where cats rule .""","""Again , logically incorrect . That 's like saying there must be a world just like this one where water flows uphill - clearly that 's nonsense : this world has been shaped by forces that ensure water flows downhill .""",DISAGREE,"""There would be planets exactly like this only dogs rule""","""there must be a world just like this one where water flows uphill""",,
13096,3434,"""I never claimed anyone did live inside an embryo .""","""Well , you 're writing from an embryo 's point of view , when an embryo does n't even have a point of view . It would be like writing from a rock 's point of view .""",DISAGREE,"""I never claimed anyone did live inside an embryo .""","""Well , you 're writing from an embryo 's point of view , when an embryo does n't even have a point of view . It would be like writing from a rock 's point of view .""",,
13100,3435,"""If a woman does not want to be pregnant , she can abstain from sex . It works !""","""Abstinance ? ! Heaven forbid .""",DISAGREE,"""If a woman does not want to be pregnant , she can abstain from sex . It works !""","""Abstinance ? ! Heaven forbid .""",,
13112,3438,"""it is nothing but science fiction""","""Really ? From what university did you earn your science degree that makes you qualified to make judgements about what is science ?""",DISAGREE,"""science fiction""","""qualified to make judgements about what is science""",,
13118,3439,"""And what did Noah do about the termites ? [""","""Well nobody has turned up the Ark have they , termites could assure that if properly used . After 40 days and more they would be ravenous .""",DISAGREE,"""And what did Noah do about the termites ? [""","""termites could assure that if properly used .""",,
13125,3441,"""Actually , the biological development begins when the ovum is formed , when its mom is a fetus herself ... ... Nope , it is at its mom 's fetal stage ( in the case of humans , 18-45 years before its birth ) .""","""While it may be true that an ovum is formed during the mother 's fetal stage , an ovum is not a unique human entity in and of itself . It does not become a unique human entity until it is fertilized at conception . ( Do you like semantics games ? )""",DISAGREE,"""biological development begins when the ovum is formed its mom is a fetus herself humans""","""ovum mother 's fetal stage an ovum is not a unique human entity""",,
13133,3443,"""You are wrong about me , WW , and the longer you pretend otherwise , the more time you 're going to waste on strawmen and the more chances I 'm going to get to make your arguments look silly .""","""* * I `` pretend `` to nothing . I am not `` pretending `` to beilieve you to be a materialit/darwinist . I do believe exactly that . And as for your threat to make my arguments look silly , I 'm not shaking in my boots . I 've made your arguments look presumptuous , pretentious and silly , but you have never yet succeeded in doing that to any of mine .""",DISAGREE,"""pretend strawmen I 'm going to get to make your arguments look silly""","""I `` pretend `` to nothing And as for your threat to make my arguments look silly , I 'm not shaking in my boots .""",,
13131,3443,"""You are wrong about me , WW , and the longer you pretend otherwise , the more time you 're going to waste on strawmen and the more chances I 'm going to get to make your arguments look silly .""","""* * I `` pretend `` to nothing . I am not `` pretending `` to beilieve you to be a materialit/darwinist . I do believe exactly that . And as for your threat to make my arguments look silly , I 'm not shaking in my boots . I 've made your arguments look presumptuous , pretentious and silly , but you have never yet succeeded in doing that to any of mine .""",DISAGREE,"""You are wrong about me , WW , and the longer you pretend otherwise , the more time you 're going to waste""","""I `` pretend `` to nothing . I am not `` pretending `` to beilieve you to be a materialit/darwinist .""",,
13132,3443,"""You are wrong about me , WW , and the longer you pretend otherwise , the more time you 're going to waste on strawmen and the more chances I 'm going to get to make your arguments look silly .""","""* * I `` pretend `` to nothing . I am not `` pretending `` to beilieve you to be a materialit/darwinist . I do believe exactly that . And as for your threat to make my arguments look silly , I 'm not shaking in my boots . I 've made your arguments look presumptuous , pretentious and silly , but you have never yet succeeded in doing that to any of mine .""",DISAGREE,"""you pretend otherwise make your arguments look silly .""","""I `` pretend `` to nothing And as for your threat to make my arguments look silly , I 'm not shaking in my boots . I 've made your arguments look presumptuous , pretentious and silly""",,
13137,3444,"""While you ’ re spending your time pointlessly debating , there are hoards of catholics out there that are spawning like crazy .""","""Oh , the actions/intentions of the religious get much worse than just that . Hopefully , everyone will be scared a bit by the following statements made by nationally known religious leaders/activists .""",DISAGREE,"""hoards of catholics out there that are spawning like crazy""","""Oh , the actions/intentions of the religious get much worse than just that .""",,
13150,3450,"""I do . I just try to shine the light of truth on it .""","""God talk about a bunch of foo foo poop ! What are you a girl ? Any way honey , dont you think that net result was a lot of people who for one reason or another could not resist there biological programming will get AIDS because they were told not to have sex in place of getting condoms ? I cant believe I had to explain that to you .""",DISAGREE,"""I do . I just try to shine the light of truth on it .""","""God talk about a bunch of foo foo poop ! What are you a girl ?""",,
13155,3452,"""Not that anyone here cares to read the Creationist slant on soft tissue found in dinosaurs ... but here it is""","""Actually , I 've heard it all before and it is wrong . The article is full of misinformation and misrepresentation . It is , as you say , slanted rather than an honest report of the data .""",DISAGREE,"""Not that anyone here cares to read the Creationist slant on soft tissue found in dinosaurs""","""It is , as you say , slanted rather than an honest report of the data .""",,
13158,3453,"""I have read all of your post and all you talk about is my facts being irrelevant , but as a Christian i belive Jesus and God are one , and the bible is the word of God so therefore its also the words of Jesus .""","""I know that I 've tried to make this argument before on another thread but Jesus was not God in that sence but the Son of God . God even says in the Bible that Jesus is his son so that they are apart of eachother but are not the same . Also , how do you know that a lot of the laws put into Leviticus were not just ones added by the chief priest ? After all , the Bible was writen down by human hands . Also I want to make reference to John 3 : 16-17 ( TEV * translation ) 16 : For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son , so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life . 17 : For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge , but to be its savior . * I specify the translation because it seems that most of the posters are using KJV , which kind of annoys me when I try to read it .""",DISAGREE,"""I have read all of your post and all you talk about is my facts being irrelevant""","""I know that I 've tried to make this argument before on another thread but Jesus was not God in that sence but the Son of God .""",,
13176,3456,"""most research indicates social deprivation as being main causes of crime coupled nowadays with drugs SO WHY ARE GUNS BEING BLAMED FOR CAUSING CRIME ! ! ! I 've been saying this for years ... Criminals have always had guns ban or not That is the exact point of this thread ... guns bans/control does n't stop the criminals , endangering the populace . If you want to argue anti-gun ... do n't support the side of us `` redneck-hillbilly-gunnuts `` that you think are so stupid .""","""But the number of criminals that have firearms can be reduced . In developed nations that have very strict gun laws there are a lot less criminals obtaining and using guns to commit crimes . How does your theory explain that ?""",DISAGREE,"""most research indicates social deprivation as being main causes of crime WHY ARE GUNS BEING BLAMED FOR CAUSING CRIME ! ! ! Criminals have always had guns ban or not""","""the number of criminals that have firearms can be reduced . developed nations that have very strict gun laws there are a lot less criminals obtaining and using guns""",,
13185,3458,"""You darwinists have gotten yourselves into quite a mess . For decades you 've been conning people that evolution proceeds gradually by way of point mutations and natural selection .""","""There 's much more to it than that . There are several different kinds of genetic changes that are called mutations . Evolution is not limited to the effects of point mutations alone . Why do n't you demonstrate your competence to discuss this topic by defining a point mutation , and then name and define several other kinds of mutation . And , of course , there are other mechanisms that increase the genetic variability in any population besides mutation . On the other hand , there are mechanisms that tend to reduce the variability in a population in addition to natural selection . Please name and explain at least 4 others in order that you do not continue to look like a fool .""",DISAGREE,"""You darwinists have gotten yourselves into quite a mess""","""There 's much more to it than that . There are several different kinds of genetic changes that are called mutations""",,
13187,3458,"""You darwinists have gotten yourselves into quite a mess . For decades you 've been conning people that evolution proceeds gradually by way of point mutations and natural selection .""","""There 's much more to it than that . There are several different kinds of genetic changes that are called mutations . Evolution is not limited to the effects of point mutations alone . Why do n't you demonstrate your competence to discuss this topic by defining a point mutation , and then name and define several other kinds of mutation . And , of course , there are other mechanisms that increase the genetic variability in any population besides mutation . On the other hand , there are mechanisms that tend to reduce the variability in a population in addition to natural selection . Please name and explain at least 4 others in order that you do not continue to look like a fool .""",DISAGREE,"""darwinists have gotten yourselves into quite a mess conning people that evolution proceeds gradually by way of point mutations""","""There 's much more to it than that There are several different kinds of genetic changes that are called mutations""",,
13196,3461,"""How many times have you heard , `` It 's in the genes .... '' ? ? ? ?""","""Once . This is the first time .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's in the genes ''""","""is the first time .""",,
13204,3463,"""The fact you always ignore is your not just doing it to your body .....""","""So then women who are pregnant should n't be allowed to 1 ) Smoke 2 ) Take any kind of drug that could possibly harm the child 3 ) Drink or do any otherwise legal action ? And VOR takes another giant step towards fascism .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact you always ignore is your not just doing it to your body""","""should n't be allowed to 1 ) Smoke 2 ) Take any kind of drug that could possibly harm the child 3 ) Drink another giant step towards fascism""",,
13223,3467,"""Creationism starts with a conclusion , and finds data to support it . According to the scientific method , one is suppose to look at data , and draw a conclusion from it . Therefore , creationism is not science , and needs not take any scientific consideration . The end .""","""Professor Heribert Nilsson , an evolutionist , writes : Is it really credible that random processes could have constructed a reality , the smallest element of which - a functional protein or gene - is complex beyond ... anything produced by the intelligence of man ? When asked why did the scientific world leap at the Origin of the Species , `` [ I suppose the reason ] we jump at the Origin was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores. `` Sir Julian Huxley  ‘ Our ways of learning about the world are strongly influenced by the social preconceptions and biased modes of thinking that each scientist must apply to any problem . The stereotype of a fully rational and objective  “ scientific method ,  ” with individual scientists as logical ( and interchangeable ) robots is self-serving mythology ARBITRARY ARRANGEMENT , R.H. DOTT , U. of Wis. & amp ; R.L . BATTEN , Columbia U. , A.M.N.H. , `` We have arranged the groups in a traditional way with the 'simplest ' forms first , and progressively more complex groups following . This particular arrangement is arbitrary and depends on what definition of 'complexity ' you wish to choose . ... things are alike because they are related , and the less they look alike , the further removed they are from their common ancestor. `` EVOLUTION OF THE EARTH , p.602 Storrs Olson , curator of birds at the National Museum of Natural History said : `` The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith . Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program , which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age -- -the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. ``""",DISAGREE,"""creationism is not science , and needs not take any scientific consideration .""","""an evolutionist , writes : Is it really credible that random processes could have constructed a reality , the smallest element of which - a functional protein or gene""",,
13234,3469,"""I 'm not selfish , whether you or your buddy JP like to think so or not - I just look at actual reality rather than a fantasy world .""","""Actually all decisions based on the self ARE selfish decisions . I really do n't care . I make them all the time too . Everyone does . While this is a philosophical issue I really see it as odd that people claim not to be selfish when doing something that benefits them or prevents harm to them with little regard to anyone else .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not selfish , I just look at actual reality rather than a fantasy world .""","""all decisions based on the self ARE selfish decisions""",,
13241,3471,"""Yes it is patent that you would assume that . Your wish to advertise this and tell the world , repeatedly must make you of some import . Repeatedly you make this a personal issue . I have addressed posts and say 'another poster has said ... such and such ' . But you insist that I address YOU in such posts . Now you are going at it again , saying I 'm not answering questions . This is an attempt to take the moral high-ground , and is itself highly deceitful , especially in light that you have in the past accused me of saying things that I did n't ... see our discussions re : Archie , the transitional bird-beast . Also , you name-call , and then chuck a tantrum if anyone does the same back . I must say here that I do wish you 'd stop personalising this , as it only leads to more confrontation , not discussion . Calling people names is just grand-standing . It is the sort of behaviour that suggests someone who is just interested in making themselves heard , regardless of anyone else .""","""And there is still no evidence on the table for YEC .""",DISAGREE,"""Now you are going at it again , saying I 'm not answering questions . This is an attempt to take the moral high-ground , and is itself highly deceitful , especially in light that you have in the past accused me of saying things that I did n't ... see our discussions re : Archie , the transitional bird-beast .""","""And there is still no evidence on the table for YEC .""",,
13260,3473,"""I do n't care much either way , as long as he never walks around loose again . But life in prison is going to cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars . That money could be better spent in the war on terror .""","""That 's why I say , `` Kill the bastard ! ``""",AGREE,"""he never walks around loose again life in prison is going to cost the taxpayers hundreds""","""That 's why I say Kill the bastard !""",,
13261,3474,"""..... If someone is a junkie , they might also smoke pot , or if someone is a crackhead , they might also smoke pot , but the large majority of pot smokers DO NOT do heroin or smoke crack .""","""Now , I would agree with that .""",AGREE,"""someone is a junkie , they might also smoke pot , or if someone is a crackhead , large majority of pot smokers DO NOT do heroin or smoke crack .""","""agree with that .""",,
13280,3475,"""Of course St. Peter had the Bible , he had the Old Testament , and he he also had the New Testament , in his mind , because he lived and learned from Jesus . This is precisely whi St. Peter is one of the writers of the New Testament , because he already knew it .""","""So he knew everything Paul did , what was written in Revelation ...""",DISAGREE,"""This is precisely whi St. Peter is one of the writers of the New Testament , because he already knew it .""","""So he knew everything Paul did""",,
13284,3476,"""Habbit has been reduced to meaningless insults . He made a fool of himself by demonstrating his ignorance of language and now has nothing worthwhile to say .""","""Do n't like it when the person you 're arguing against can be as sarcastic as you are , huh ? I understand , I get these types of whines all the time . thistownwilleat-""",DISAGREE,"""He made a fool of himself by demonstrating his ignorance of language""","""Do n't like it when the person you 're arguing against can be as sarcastic as you are""",,
13297,3477,"""can anyone explain this to me ? or give me some sites that would explain it ?""","""http : www.talkorigins.org""",DISAGREE,"""give me some sites that would explain it ?""","""http : www.talkorigins.org""",,
13335,3482,"""Quotes from your silly little book of fairytales do not qualify as evidence of anything but an over active imagination and your interpretation of said book leaves much to be desired .""","""So , we are debating creation , yet you do n't consider quoting the bible , the single most important original proponent of the creation account and to you , it does n't qualify as a source for what is being discussed here ? You say this and expect to be taken seriously ?""",DISAGREE,"""Quotes from your silly little book of fairytales do not qualify as evidence of anything but an over active imagination""","""we are debating creation , yet you do n't consider quoting the bible , the single most important original proponent of the creation account and to you ,""",,
13344,3483,"""thanks for posting ... I will watch this . I ca n't say I have high hopes though , considering it 's on PBS . They do n't have a great track record for scientific neutrality . I 'm sure this will have some sort of biased darwinian spin on it .""","""This is ridiculous . Evolution is `` scientifically neutral `` . It 's you who has the bias .""",DISAGREE,"""I ca n't say I have high hopes though , considering it 's on PBS . have some sort of biased darwinian spin on it .""","""This is ridiculous Evolution is `` scientifically neutral ``""",,
13350,3484,"""Steeeeve , ALABAMA voted out `` miscegenation `` in 2000 `` by act of legislature `` . http : //www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/al/main03.htm Loving v Virginia ruled Alabama 's law as unconstitutional over 30 years prior . The truth is that when the court notes that a law is unconstitutional , the law becomes unenforceable . The COURT does not remove the law from the books . The legislature must accomplish that act by its actions . But the action of the court , invalidating the law , PRECEDES the action of the legislature ... I am asking about states where the legislature , without having the courts already striking down the law , took it upon themselves to remove the miscegenation law all by themselves . That is the point .""","""And I 'm saying all but 16 states had already had the law removed before the Loving case . Most of these were done via the legislature and very few had the law overturned by a court . In fact , only California comes to mind as a state that had the statue overturned by the courts instead of on repeal by the legislature . Who knew ... but there is a wikipedia page on this : Anti-miscegenation laws - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia It does n't say whether or not it was via a court case or not but I know that California was a court case and Massachusetts and many Northern/mid-west state were via legislature action . Also , the Supreme Court case ruled the Virginia law unconstitutional not the Alabama law . It is just understood that similar laws will be overturned thus they are negated .""",AGREE,"""The legislature must accomplish that act by its actions . I am asking about states where the legislature ,""","""there is a wikipedia page on this : Anti-miscegenation laws It is just understood that similar laws will be overturned thus they are negated .""",,
13355,3485,"""EveryTown , USA - - ( AmmoLand.com ) - In just 3 months Americans bought enough guns to outfit the entire Chinese and Indian army ’ s combined . You also bought 1,529,635,000 rounds of ammunition in just the month of December 2008 . Yeah that is right , that is Billion with a  “ B ” . This is an evaluation of overall firearms and ammunition purchases based on low end numbers per Federal NIC instacheck data base Statistics . The numbers presented are only PART of the overall numbers of arms and ammunition that have been sold . The actual numbers are much higher .""","""The NICS background check system is now 10 years old . FBI Background Checks for Firearm Purchases Hit 100 Million""",AGREE,"""This is an evaluation of overall firearms and ammunition purchases based on low end numbers per Federal NIC instacheck data base Statistics .""","""The NICS background check system is now 10 years old .""",,
13358,3486,"""Really ? ? ? You think most people would incorporate the golden rule ? I do n't think so -- I think most people are willing to make a buck off of others ( business ventures ) , land that job they want before someone else gets it , curse someone for cutting them off in traffic , get that parking spot before the guy coming around the corner gets it , or even get in an intentionally insulting dig to someone in a discussion forum such as this . The examples could go on and on ... I think a lot of people like to THINK they incorporate the golden rule , but at close , honest examination would find that they rarely do .""","""Ouch jyoshu ... you are hitting them outta the park today . Exactly , it sounds nice but it certainly is n't the only moral rule and it certainly does n't mean one follows it . I 'd say selfishness is probably the underlying value in many cases .""",AGREE,"""Really ? ? ? You think most people would incorporate the golden rule ? I do n't think so -- I think most people are willing to make a buck off of others ...""","""Exactly , it sounds nice but it certainly is n't the only moral rule and it certainly does n't mean one follows it .""",,
13363,3487,"""And then there 's the fact that registration databases are nothing more than money pits that serve no crime fighting benefits , Canada has stated such . Any attempt at a database is going to waste taxpayer money , take police off the streets , and require police to prosecute honest people for paperwork errors rather than going after gang members and other criminals . Oh and then we come to the fact that criminals will never register their weapons , leaving them untraceable !""","""While it 's true that criminals wo n't be lining up to register guns that they already own , gun registration could make it harder for them to obtain more guns in the future . Registration could require law abiding citizens to be more careful about who they sell their guns to as well as making it easier to trace back a lost or stolen gun to the original owner .""",DISAGREE,"""databases are nothing more than money pits that serve no crime fighting benefits . criminals will never register their weapons""","""criminals wo n't be lining up to register guns that they already own , gun registration could make it harder for them to obtain more guns in the future . to trace back a lost or stolen gun""",,
13369,3488,"""Is even 'channel ' sufficiently ateleological a verb ?""","""Yes . It describes an action without ascribing its form to its end result , outcome , whatever but strictly to a cause/s force/s in action . That is why 'selection ' is always teleological . In order to select or choose anything , an end must always be in view . There must always be a volitional discrimination of options based upon a criterion dictated by the desired end . The only time `` channel `` becomes teleological is when something live [ a human or a beaver , let 's say ] intententionally does the channeling . But since it is understood that mechanical forces can also 'channel ' , unintentional , out of simple mechanics , the word channel can not be called teleological . In the same way , 'sorting ' can be considered non-teleological , hence mechanical , and thus suited to your glossary , because things can be sorted by mechanical forces alone . But 'selection ' always requires volition and awareness . So 'selection ' is always teleological .""",AGREE,"""Is even 'channel ' sufficiently ateleological a verb ?""","""But 'selection ' always requires volition and awareness . So 'selection ' is always teleological .""",,
13371,3488,"""Is even 'channel ' sufficiently ateleological a verb ?""","""Yes . It describes an action without ascribing its form to its end result , outcome , whatever but strictly to a cause/s force/s in action . That is why 'selection ' is always teleological . In order to select or choose anything , an end must always be in view . There must always be a volitional discrimination of options based upon a criterion dictated by the desired end . The only time `` channel `` becomes teleological is when something live [ a human or a beaver , let 's say ] intententionally does the channeling . But since it is understood that mechanical forces can also 'channel ' , unintentional , out of simple mechanics , the word channel can not be called teleological . In the same way , 'sorting ' can be considered non-teleological , hence mechanical , and thus suited to your glossary , because things can be sorted by mechanical forces alone . But 'selection ' always requires volition and awareness . So 'selection ' is always teleological .""",AGREE,"""Is even 'channel ' sufficiently ateleological a verb ?""","""That is why 'selection ' is always teleological . In order to select or choose anything""",,
13394,3492,"""Then your argument too is flawed by the same principals of debate .""","""Because ? The conventional big bang is just as unlikely as God . Therefore your claim is wrong . However the current believe mainly among physicists and astronomers is that there is no end and there is no beginning to the universe . Expansionary theories along with contractionary theories that are being observed have led many to believe that the current universe was born from the death of the last universe . There is no end and there is no beginning . You are out of your league .""",DISAGREE,"""Then your argument too is flawed by the same principals of debate .""","""Because ?""",,
13399,3493,"""But the interesting thing is evolutionists refer to this survival of the fittest on the level of the INDIVIDUAL .""","""Actually , evolution occurs on the level of the population : individuals do n't change , but populations do . See the examples above .""",DISAGREE,"""But the interesting thing is evolutionists refer to this survival of the fittest on the level of the INDIVIDUAL .""","""Actually , evolution occurs on the level of the population : individuals do n't change , but populations do .""",,
13442,3497,"""So why are people from the gun lobby always whining about restrictions like this ?""","""Because you people keep wanting one restriction after another after another after another . Nothing is ever good enough for you , you always want more than ever . Well we do n't want to abide by your wishes , gun ownership is a recognized right , and your hatred of rights wo n't be tolerated . We 're not going to just stand by and be painted as the bad guys because you have the mentally disabled belief that banning gun ownership will reduce crime , and anybody who disagrees with you want to see people killed .""",DISAGREE,"""why are people from the gun lobby always whining about restrictions like this ?""","""people keep wanting one restriction after another after another after another . Nothing is ever good enough for you , Well we do n't want to abide by your wishes , gun ownership""",,
13452,3498,"""Well , here 's another quote from Allan Feduucia : `` Feathers are unique to birds , and no known structure intermediate between scales and feathers has been identified. `` ( J. Alan Feduccia , The Age of Birds , Harvard University Press , 1980 , pg . 52 )""","""Yippie doo ! A 23 year old quote from an ornithologist defending his point of view . And his point of view has ( or had ) merit . But since then , several feathered dinosaurs ( not birds ) have been found . It has also been shown that the difference between a scale and a feather may be no more than a single point mutation . ( You do know what I 'm talking about , do n't you Calli ? You do know what a `` point mutation `` is , do n't you ? ) Bottom line is that there may be no intermediate between scales and feathers . A single point mutation produces feathers from scales . Various kinds of feathers require only further mutation .""",DISAGREE,"""Feathers are unique to birds no known structure scales and feathers has been""","""there may be no intermediate between scales and feathers . A single point mutation produces feathers from scales .""",,
13499,3516,"""It does n't matter if you 're shot in the head , or stabbed in the heart , death is all the same . Your continued ignoring of those who 've been stabbed and bludgeoned to death is disgraceful and you should be ashamed of yourself . You do n't care about saving even a single life , all you care about is furthering your agenda ! You 're glad when you read about somebody being killed , it makes you happy because you can dance in their spilled blood and exploit a family 's tragedy to further your own goals , come hell or high water !""","""Such personal attacks as yours indicate a bankruptcy of argument and reveal much about you while revealing nothing about me . If someone says that you are more likely to die in a car accident than in an airplane accident would accuse them of not caring about airplane accident victims ? Would you accuse them of taking delight in the number of car deaths ?""",DISAGREE,"""if you 're shot in the head , somebody being killed ,""","""If someone says that you are more likely to die in a car accident than in an airplane accident would accuse them of not""",,
13505,3518,"""Why ? What has caused you to believe such things ?""","""OMG SIMONE ! ! Can you believe a woman out there is against abortion ? This is why the `` walk a mile in my shoes `` fallacy fails everytime""",DISAGREE,"""What has caused you to believe such things ?""","""a woman out there is against abortion ?""",,
13508,3519,"""The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution ; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence .""","""U.S. Supreme Court PRESSER v. STATE OF ILLINOIS , 116 U.S. 252 ( 1886 )""",DISAGREE,"""right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution""","""PRESSER v. STATE OF ILLINOIS""",,
13535,3526,"""The only difference is that the gene for making short hair has been eradicated from the population by natural selection -- that is it .""","""Right . The frenquecy of the alles have changed over time .""",AGREE,"""the gene for making short hair has been eradicated from the population by natural selection""","""Right . The frenquecy of the alles have changed over time .""",,
13542,3527,"""A small p-value by itself isn ’ t enough to preclude chance .""","""Oh my , but is n't you 're whole endeavor to say that life has a small p-value , therefore could not have possible arisen by chance . I just happen to dispute the low p-value of life arising . Not only do evolutionists usually not accept a low p-value for life forming , we Pastafarians also do not accept it , since we know that there is 100 % chance of the FSM creating life with His Noodly Appendage . Then he starts equating the Bible Code ( which has been debunked , I mean seriously debunked , start here ) . In my mind , if the Isaac Newton of Information Theory says , `` At the same time that research in the Bible Code has taken off , research in a seemingly unrelated field has taken off as well , namely , biological design . These two fields are in fact closely related ... The relevant statistical methodology is identical for both fields , `` and I say that if one of those methodologies has been debunked , then so has the other . I think William Demski and other founding fathers of ID creationism are the movement 's worst enemies . They contradict themselves repeatedly and usually their words can easily be used against them to refute or debunk ID itself , and I do n't mean by quote mining or any other creationist tactic . On one hand there is Michael Behe , who under oath claimed that in order for ID to fit a definition of science , that definition also had to be broad enough to include astrology , and on the other hand there is William Demski , who claims that ID and the Bible Code follow the same statistical methodology and are very closely related . To me , it looks like these guys should be telling fortunes , not lobbying school boards . Well , I do suppose they are mostly sticking to selling books and lecturing for $ 200 an hour , so you 've got to give them credit for keeping up the sham for so long . I 'd really love it if someone got on this board and tried to defend the Bible Code or William Demksi 's apparent endorsement of it .""",DISAGREE,"""isn ’ t enough to preclude chance .""","""I just happen to dispute the low p-value of life arising""",,
13575,3534,"""That is one definition of creation . There are many . You again make a mistake of making an assumption about what you want to argue about , and argue against that . If you want a ( non-exhaustive list ) see http : //www.crystalinks.com/creation.html You have simply picked one model , treated it as the only one , and constructed a ( thus false ) argument against it .""","""Oh it 's no mistake Montalban . I , unlike you , am quite clear in my arguments , and have a direction and a goal . We can take your other definitions of creationism one at a time , thank you very much . I 'd like to first focus on the one that involves your god , or any god , described as being unknowable ( which you have said your god is ) . Will you `` allow `` us to focus on ONE thing ? You see , if we have a list of 4 things , and we go through them one by one , we can maybe arrive at the end ! ! ! Crazy thought is n't it !""",DISAGREE,"""That is one definition of creation . There are many . You again make a mistake of making an assumption about what you want to argue about , and argue against that .""","""unlike you , am quite clear in my arguments , and have a direction and a goal . We can take your other definitions of creationism one at a time , thank you very much .""",,
13583,3535,"""Actually , society has n't said this . 5 judges , in very recent times , have . I for one think that some 17 year olds fully comprehend the full implications of murder , and therefore should be held accountable in the same way as an 18 year old . I guess I just do n't see any reason why a jury could not address the issue on a case by case basis . I do not see the `` 18 and over execution rule `` in the eighth amendment . The point about abortion that I brought up is that it questions the premise offered by thelmoose with respect to juvenile development . In fact , this point was made in the dissent of a Supreme Court opinion dealing with executing juvenile offenders . On the one hand , it is argued that juveniles do posses enough moral maturity to be able to have the same right to abortion as an adult , but on the other hand , it is argued that they do not posses enough moral maturity to be able to be held to the same standard as adults when it comes to the decision to commit cold blooded murder . For your convenience , I underlined the key parts . We have here two contradictory statements . That is what I was pointing out .""","""I think many things are getting confused here . First , I have no idea what  “ moral maturity ” means . You talk as though that is some definable entity . Next , one may reasonably consider that children are cognitively different from adults . Despite what society or 5 judges have to say , that seems to me a valid reason for applying different sentences to different people . The question was raised with respect to the death penalty as well . We are not talking about criteria for guilt , but once convicted , we are talking about whether to execute a person or not . Unless you feel that punishment should be based solely on retribution , I think there is some wiggle room for different sentencing guidelines for different aged humans . You have conceded that a difference in neurophysiologic fitness makes sense , but we should decide on a case by case basis . If you can figure out a reliable way to do that , go for it . We draw the line based upon age all the time for all sorts of things . The issue of abortion is different for many reasons . We are not deciding on whether to execute a person based upon a crime they committed . That makes it a different issue . Ideally , we would never have a pregnant young woman under the age of 18 make a decision like that without the support and guidance of her loving parents . The ideal situation sometimes does not exist . An underage female may legally make this decision precisely because there are many out there who do not have that guidance at all or informing parents would make things worse . It just so happens that females are fertile prior to 18 , so we do not have the luxury of applying similar age requirements . If you could ban pregnancy prior to 18 , now you ’ d be talking .""",DISAGREE,"""I do not see the `` 18 and over execution rule `` in the eighth amendment . The point about abortion that I brought up is that it questions""","""Ideally , we would never have a pregnant young woman under the age of 18 make a decision like that without the support and guidance of her loving parents""",,
13587,3543,"""Nobody considers a petri dish pregnant ,""","""But they consider the exact same thing inside a human that has yet to be implanted a pregnancy ? Double standards much ?""",DISAGREE,"""Nobody considers a petri dish pregnant ,""","""But they consider the exact same thing inside a human that has yet to be implanted a pregnancy""",,
13598,3545,"""That 's horrible . That 's part of why I 'm for abortion , the result of making it illegal .""","""did you miss the part where it is ... the attempt to abort . which kills the women . it is not child birth that kills those women . it is an attempt to abort . if they didnt try and kill their baby .. they would not of died . Having a child , is not a trajedy ... its just part of life . its not a wrongful burden ... or a flaw of existance .. its nature . dah ... do you even read what is being posted ?""",DISAGREE,"""That 's horrible . That 's part of why I 'm for abortion , the result of making it illegal .""","""did you miss the part where it is ... the attempt to abort . which kills the women . it is not child birth that kills those women . it is an attempt to abort . if they didnt try and kill their baby .. they would not of died . Having a child , is not a trajedy ... its just part of life . its not a wrongful burden ... or a flaw of existance .. its nature . dah ... do you even read what is being posted ?""",,
13607,3546,"""The human collective is the authority . One major advantage of this authority over a theistic one is that it actually exists .""","""Ho , hum ... humanist , atheistic babble that does nothing but keep you running in circles , thinking you are actually getting somewhere .""",DISAGREE,"""human collective is the authority""","""humanist , atheistic babble that does nothing but keep you running in circles ,""",,
13608,3546,"""The human collective is the authority . One major advantage of this authority over a theistic one is that it actually exists .""","""Ho , hum ... humanist , atheistic babble that does nothing but keep you running in circles , thinking you are actually getting somewhere .""",DISAGREE,"""The human collective One major advantage""","""humanist atheistic babble that does nothing""",,
13612,3547,"""you ever wonder if people have read the 14th amendment ? It came between 2 amendments above slavery so keep that in mind when you read it""","""The California judge would probably not have the authority to refer to the Federal Constitution ; it would have to be taken to the Federal Courts for that .""",DISAGREE,"""you ever wonder if people have read the 14th amendment ? It came between 2 amendments above slavery so keep that in mind when you read it""","""The California judge would probably not have the authority to refer to the Federal Constitution ; it would have to be taken to the Federal Courts for that""",,
13623,3549,"""Can you explain to me what that is ? I 've never been able to get a straight answer . In particular , what was supposed to have happened , and when ?""","""Well , I can more easily explain what it is NOT . In my latter ID days , I was arguing for a form of Directed Panspermia , with the aliens themselves having arisen by purely natural means - starting off as simpler organisms than us , but then evolving intelligence - and then creating life as we know it . Without getting into details , imagine what we humans will probably due in 100 years or so : create a new form of life ( robotic ) that is vastly different than our own and probably more complex . And it is a form of life we would be more likely to send out into space than ourselves , and that is better suited for being send out to other planets than we are . Analogously , imagine a form of alien life unlike that as we know it creating bacterial life and then sending it out in spaceships to populate other worlds . With our form of life being designed by a different form of life and rocketed here , that would be intelligent design of life as we know it . However , that is NOT what the ID movement holds ID to be : their 's is a religious position down to its core , as became even more clear in the Dover , PA court case . Also , one could argue that Intelligent Design is a fact . When humans create a novel amino acid sequence , or modify a bacterium to perform a specific target function , then we are practicing intelligent design in biology . But that is NOT what the ID movement means . Theirs is a religious position that uses human design as an analogy , not as their goal . As far as Behe 's ID , he made it clear in his Darwins ' Black Box and in court in the Dover , PA case that he ca n't say much of anything about ID . He ca n't tell WHEN the designs were created , HOW the designs were instantiated , by WHOM or `` WHOMS `` the designs were created , or WHERE the designs and instantiations occurred . He 's got 0 details . Yet he rejects evolution - despite the tons of evidence - because not every single I has been dotted in the origin of the bacterial flagellum . Behe strains out a gnat yet swallows a camel .""",DISAGREE,"""explain to me what that is ? supposed to have happened""","""more easily explain latter ID days religious position""",,
13638,3551,"""I think it 's because their laws prevent most criminals from obtaining guns .""","""No , they do not . I know several people in England who posess weapons the bought on the street . How are the gun laws in england working when you can buy a machine gun ? Before the ban , england had lower numbers when it came to firearms related deaths . They also had lower crime numbers . The sociological differences between England and the United States are not be be discounted . It is interesting to note that crime rates in England seem to be rising now that the gun ban has been around for a while . There is even a movement by public officials to arm police officers in response to the rising rate of violent crime . There isa n article and debate about it right here on the forums . The biggest difference lately in the statistics in England in the US is not the numbers , it is how they are recorded . If a guy is confronted by three people outside a bar and shot to death , but the gus get off during trial , it is still recorded in America s a three person homocide . In england , it is NOT recorded . I get the London Times , and they have done several articles accusing th British government of manipulating crime figures . I think that if we in America only recorded solved crimes in our crime statistics , we might become one of the most cime free contries in the world !""",DISAGREE,"""I think prevent""","""No , they do not . can buy a machine gun ?""",,
13670,3554,"""I understand that you support evolution , so do n't get me wrong . However , if something is `` changing in response to new selective pressure , `` then it must be at least somewhat `` purposeful , `` no ?""","""Perhaps I can help :""",DISAGREE,"""then it must be at least somewhat `` purposeful , `` no ?""","""Perhaps I can help :""",,
13693,3557,"""The memo is real , nobody has ever been able to disprove it . Handgun Control Inc. ( the people who later became the Brady Campaign ) have claimed that the memo is a hoax and that what was released has never been their official position . However them simply stating this , is no different than Obama making a statement on national news , and then several months later saying `` I never said that `` and trying to reverse his position . Until it can be proven beyond doubt as being untrue and simple propaganda , the memo is real and explains in detail exactly what the gun control groups are after .""","""So although you provide absolutely no evidence or source to back up this claim we should just accept that the memo is authentic until some disproves it ? How does such reasoning even begin to make sense ? I 'm very suspicious about the legitimacy of such a memo . Here are two bogus quotes attributed to Sarah Brady by some people on the pro-gun side :""",DISAGREE,"""Handgun Control Inc. ( the people who later became the Brady Campaign ) have claimed that the memo is a hoax and that what was released has never been their official position .""","""you provide absolutely no evidence or source to back up this claim we should just accept that the memo is authentic until some disproves it ?""",,
13698,3558,"""Darwinian natural selection as opposed to the Christian theism of creationism has implications for western civilization like few subjects in the modern world .""","""Darwinian natural selection is n't opposed to Christianity . In fact , if you took the time to inform yourself you would find that Christian organizations like the ICR and AIG both clearly state that natural selection is a reality and consider it foolish to deny it . In fact , young earth creationists propose evolution by means of natural selection at rates that boggle the minds of evolutionary biologists . They reason that the millions of species of animals that we know of today evolved in very few years after the flood of Noah from the few thousand `` kinds `` that were aboard the ark . I think that you have confused one of Darwin 's theories with the modern biological theory of evolution . It seems that you are n't aware of the fact that Darwin was not the first scientist to state a theory of evolution . Darwin merely restated the simple idea that populations of animals are observed to change over time , an old idea that was accepted by many naturalists of the day . In fact , even Darwin 's grandfather wrote about evolution . By the time Darwin sailed on the Beagle , evolution was an old idea and by the time Darwin published On the Origin of Species the idea was 28 years older . Darwin proposed a mechanism of evolution , which is why his idea gained such wide acceptance almost immediately . What Darwin 's theory lacked was a mechanism of heredity by which novel characteristics were able to remain in a population and not be overwhelmed by majority of the population that lacked that characteristic . None of the theories of heredity of Darwin 's day could account for the origin and increase of new characteristics in a population . That was the greatest challenge to `` Darwinism `` until the early decades of the 20th century when Mendel 's work was rediscovered .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwinian natural selection as opposed to the Christian theism of creationism has implications for western civilization""","""Darwinian natural selection is n't opposed to Christianity .""",,
13724,3562,"""BTW , there is more documentation to support the Bible than alleged proof to support the theory that man evolved from nothing .""","""Actually , I think that lack of support for your mythology is one of the reasons that it is n't accepted as literal . I suspect that your documentation is just assertion that you believe because it tells you what you want to hear . Why is it that creationists keep claining to have `` proof `` and never present any ? Have you checked out the threads in the Religion forum where some posters are having trouble demonstrating the historicity of Jesus ? How can you claim documentation for Adam & amp ; Eve , the Garden , talking snake , the flood ?""",DISAGREE,"""there is more documentation to support the Bible than alleged proof to support the theory that man evolved from nothing .""","""lack of support for your mythology is one of the reasons that it is n't accepted as literal .""",,
13727,3563,"""No more need be said except this : http : //www.4forums.com/political/365910-post53.html""","""And this : `` Speak up for those who can not speak for themselves ; ensure justice for those who are perishing. `` Proverbs 31:8Also ... Exodus 21 22 `` If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury , the offender must be fined whatever the woman 's husband demands and the court allows . 23 But if there is serious injury , you are to take life for life , 24 eye for eye , tooth for tooth , hand for hand , foot for foot , 25 burn for burn , wound for wound , bruise for bruise . 1 ) If a woman gives birth prematurely , but there is no serious injury -- i.e . the baby lives without harm , then a fine results to compensate for the assault . 2 ) If a woman gives birth prematurely , and the baby dies , then the assailant is to be given the death penalty . This point is HUGE ! ! ! What God is saying here is that the value and worth of an adult man is equal to the value and worth of an unborn fetus who was young enough , or injured enough , to die . God equates the loss of an unborn baby as the loss of a life , for He says , `` you are to take life for life , ... `` This point can not be emphasized too strongly . God considers the unborn baby alive , and the loss of that life is considered murder . This murder is punishable with the death penalty . This verse demonstrates three truths : a ) The unborn 's life is equivalent in value to an adult 's life in God 's sight b ) This also outlines God 's Law against criminal feticide . c ) The killing of the unborn is murder Bible and abortion : The Biblical case against abortion""",AGREE,"""No more need be said except this : http : //www.4forums.com/political/365910-post53.html""","""And this : `` Speak up for those who can not speak for themselves ; ensure justice for those who are perishing. `` Proverbs 31:8Also""",,
13753,3583,"""Besides , I 'm not discussing personal morality here , I 'm discussing what should be legal , and what is practical in a society where not everyone shares the same moral views .""","""What should be practical in society is the criminal element being scared to death that they 're going to be killed at the very next house they try and rob . That 's not only practical , it 's moral . If you do n't want to die , do n't break the law . It 's not rocket science , all you need to do is stop being bad .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm discussing what should be legal , and what is practical in a society where not everyone shares the same moral views .""","""If you do n't want to die , do n't break the law .""",,
13756,3584,"""it will be neccesary to temporarily drop the thermodynamics argument""","""You would do yourself a favour to drop it permanently . Nobody who understands the second law of thermodynamics believes it precludes the possibility of complexity increasing at a given place .""",DISAGREE,"""it will be neccesary to temporarily drop the thermodynamics argument""","""You would do yourself a favour to drop it permanently .""",,
13774,3587,"""It certainly did n't protect the Iraqi people against political tyranny .""","""So taking away all their guns would have been better ? The ruling party was certainly well armed how about the other parties ?""",DISAGREE,"""It certainly did n't protect the Iraqi people against political tyranny .""","""So taking away all their guns would have been better ?""",,
13808,3595,"""It 's truly less harmful than alcohol .""","""Prove it then . If this is a fact , there will be research on the subject on the net somewhere comparing the effects of the two . In terms of addiction , alcohol is far worse than pot apparently . http : //www.tfy.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm""",DISAGREE,"""It 's truly less harmful than alcohol .""","""Prove it then .""",,
13826,3599,"""They say that there can even be variation within a kind , a sort of Biblical evolutionary theory , whereby species develop within the broader `` kind `` classifiacation .""","""Yes . But that means that the cat `` kind `` , a single pair , produced 4 genera with 36 species in , at most , a couple hundred years . And that does n't even include domestic cats . It makes the head of any evolutionary biologist spin ! Creationists who wish to deny evolution invoke hyperevolution for thousands of `` kinds `` to yield millions of species in hundreds of years . And yet , they deny evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""variation within a kind a sort of Biblical evolutionary theory ``""","""Yes . But that means that the cat `` kind `` , a single pair , produced 4 genera with 36 species in , at most , a couple hundred years . Creationists who wish to deny evolution invoke hyperevolution for thousands of `` kinds `` to yield millions of species in hundreds of years . And yet , they deny evolution .""",,
13832,3600,"""But of course , the real issue is whether or not changing marriage is a civil right to begin with , because these ballot initiatives are generally about whether marriage should be protected from being redefined .""","""No , the issue is about civil rights . You just do n't want to publicly oppose civil rights , so you jump through hoops to try to call the issue something else . The government is giving out perks and bennies , and has arbitrarily decided to exclude one group from qualifiying , even though they meet all meaningful qualificaitons . It 's that simple ; even you see it . Look at what you said above . Not `` getting married `` is a civil right . '' changing marriage `` . Whenever you dance so prettily it 's clear that you know where the landmines are , and are desperately trying to avoid them .""",DISAGREE,"""the real issue changing marriage is a civil right""","""the issue is about civil rights publicly oppose civil rights""",,
13833,3601,"""And WW already gave you guys the link to the Woese paper called Biology 's Next Revolution .... you can read about it here :""","""And I suspect WW understands it about as well as you do ...""",DISAGREE,"""the Woese paper called Biology 's Next Revolution .... you can read about it here :""","""And I suspect WW understands it about as well as you do ...""",,
13845,3603,"""Gee , I wonder why they do n't run these tests . Corruption ? Yes , that 's it ... corruption ... oh , and dishonesty .""","""Actually , submitting samples that will return bogus dates is dishonest . Creationists have done this several times .""",DISAGREE,"""Gee , I wonder why they do n't run these tests . Corruption ? Yes , that 's it ... corruption ... oh , and dishonesty .""","""Actually , submitting samples that will return bogus dates is dishonest . Creationists have done this several times .""",,
13850,3603,"""Gee , I wonder why they do n't run these tests . Corruption ? Yes , that 's it ... corruption ... oh , and dishonesty .""","""Actually , submitting samples that will return bogus dates is dishonest . Creationists have done this several times .""",DISAGREE,"""I wonder why they do n't run these tests . Corruption ?""","""submitting samples that will return bogus dates is dishonest""",,
13854,3604,"""They are utterly nonproductive , they waste health care dollars , they do not begin to adequately provide health care . Truth be told , health insurance companies do more to prevent health care than they cause heath care to occur . Profit and greed and enormous CEO salaries and excessive CEO bonuses are the only reasons for being of health insurance companies . Those who are insured by health insurance companies are almost always totally screwed . They pay and pay premiums and get very little in return .""","""You think its bad now ? Watch what happens if Gov't takes control . I saw a great tagline the other day , it said `` If the US get socialized medicine where will Canadians get healthcare ? `` Anyone who does n't like insurance premiums is free not to pay them , at least until the gov't takes over . Happy New Year""",DISAGREE,"""They are utterly nonproductive , they waste health care dollars , they do not begin to adequately provide health care . They pay and pay premiums and get very little in return .""","""You think its bad now ? Watch what happens if Gov't takes control . `` `` Anyone who does n't like insurance premiums is free not to pay them , at least until the gov't takes over .""",,
13863,3627,"""The violinist analogy suggests that a mother has no more responsibility for the welfare of her child than she has to a total stranger . McDonagh 's view is even worse . She argues the child is not merely a stranger , but a violent assailant the mother needs to ward off in self-defense .""","""Self-defense ' never enters into it , imo . Unwillingness to share ones body is not necessarily self-defense , so this does not apply .""",DISAGREE,"""McDonagh 's view is even worse . She argues the child is not merely a stranger , but a violent assailant the mother needs to ward off in self-defense .""","""Self-defense ' never enters into it , imo . Unwillingness to share ones body is not necessarily self-defense , so this does not apply .""",,
13872,3629,"""I think Peddler and Ray have lots of good ideas , and they will be able to explian everthing . Just give them a chance ! Stop bothering them with more questions so that they can actually concentrate on one of them instead of getting loads more . Sheesh !""","""Really ? I have not seen one coherent idea from both of them combined .""",DISAGREE,"""I think Peddler and Ray have lots of good ideas , and they will be able to explian everthing .""","""Really ? I have not seen one coherent idea from both of them combined .""",,
13888,3633,"""That much can be said . But we can provide evidence for the existence of God in other ways that require us to use logic and reasoning . We might reason for instance , say that if Jesus ' body was still rotting in the tomb , then it is most likely that the authorities would have displayed it in order to crush the Christian faith ( for they had every motive to ) . And if they had produced the corpse , then it is almost certain that Christianity would have been destroyed ( for the early Christians believed in nothing less than the literal bodily resurrection ) . Given that the faith was not destroyed , it is implausible that His body was still in the tomb . Of course , there is a whole lot more to consider than this . Furthermore , a miraclous event ( such as Jesus ' resurrection ) is improbable on the assumption that the miracle did not occur - but is to be expected on the assumption that it did . That is , if there was no resurrection , the emergence of Christianity is highly improbable ; but if there was a resurrection , the emergence of Christianity is very likely . This is in the form `` if A happened , then it is most likely that B `` .""","""yes , on the grounds of `` mostly likely `` we can make reasonable assumptions . but we must still treat them as such . part of the catch of God 's existence is that no evidence of his existence cn ever be found . if Jesus actually physically performed observable miracles , even 2000 years ago , then it would surely proven that the supernatural can and does ( or did ) exist in reality . however , even jesus 's ministry contradicts the faith theory . how can God expect faith from those who have n't observed on the grounds of those who have ? if people can observe the manifested power of God in reality , then they have physical evidence that God exists . but this conflicts with the nature of God from a biblical standpoint . in other words , the bible can not claim that physical evidence for the existence of God can exist , and then that it can not exist , without contradicting itself . what we end up with is the predicament that ANY physical evidence that could possibly support God 's existence is evidence against God 's existence ( at least from a biblical standpoint )""",DISAGREE,"""That much can be said . But we can provide evidence for the existence of God in other ways that require us to use logic and reasoning . ``""","""in other words , the bible can not claim that physical evidence for the existence of God can exist , and then that it can not exist , without contradicting itself .""",,
13891,3634,"""can life be compared with energy ?""","""Notice how doctors determine if the body is empty . Electrocardiogram or Electroencephlogram ( looking for life force/electricity/energy )""",DISAGREE,"""life energy""","""doctors body Electrocardiogram Electroencephlogram life""",,
13897,3635,"""You know something is wrong with this world when people start calling embryos and non-sentient life forms victims and referring to martin Luther King Jr. to justify their views . It seems today that anyone that shows any decency or slight intelligence or common sense is labeled a radical leftist . Man , the republicans are getting desperate when you see them trying to equate embryos to men using MLK .""","""You know something is wrong with this world when people attack the act of posting an opinion ( that of Ms. King ) and another condemns the idea that someone may read it and develop their own opinion . Saving lives is not just a Republican goal . And yes it is an act of desperation . All acts are an act of desperation when it comes to saving the natural process of life with out interference of those who place their comfort above the life inside them . Whatever is wrong outside the womb , is not the fault of the inhabitant within the womb .""",DISAGREE,"""You know something is wrong with this world when people start calling embryos and non-sentient life forms victims and referring to martin Luther King Jr. to justify their views .""","""You know something is wrong with this world when people attack the act of posting an opinion ( that of Ms. King ) and another condemns the idea that someone may read it and develop their own opinion .""",,
13911,3638,"""Guns are banned , now what ? 1 ) Gun confiscation ? ( ... ) 2 ) Gun buy back ?""","""Why either of those ?""",DISAGREE,""") Gun confiscation ? ( ... ) 2 ) Gun buy back ?""","""Why either of those ?""",,
13930,3655,"""You might be interested to know that Chicago had a black mayor from 1983 to 1987 -while the ban was in effect . You 're just playing the race card .""","""And Daley fought harder than anyone to keep it in place . What 's your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""Chicago had a black mayor from 1983 to 1987""","""Daley fought harder than anyone to keep it in place""",,
13977,3700,"""If I am to believe in something even if it 's scientific , I should be able to challenge the belief 's of the person who 's pushing it . If they do n't believe what they 're selling , why should I .""","""This is why people should n't have opinions , rather facts . Opinions should remain neutral untill sufficient objective evidence can be gathered . When people run off having `` opinions , `` they cause trouble . The fact that someone does n't do or believe what he is selling does n't affect the validity of the argument . There are teachers who do n't believe in evolution , yet they teach it because it 's standardized . You have people who promote an idea because it 's popular , because of convention , or because someone tells them to . Someone can be saying something , believing something else , yet be totally wrong . THeir belief is n't the fact .""",DISAGREE,"""I should be able to challenge the belief 's of the person who 's pushing it""","""The fact that someone does n't do or believe what he is selling does n't affect the validity of the argument .""",,
13987,3702,"""You can preach about abortion being bad and even protest it , but why should you try and force your beliefs on others ? I know this is the essence of Christianity , but why should it extend to society ?""","""First , are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ? Second , forcing someone to believe as I do is in no way the essence of Christianity . God gives choices ( which is another debate ) to man . We must simply choose right or wrong . Jesus wants us to influence , not force . Jesus said to His followers in Matthew 5:14-16 , `` You are the light of the world . A city on a hill can not be hidden . Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl . Instead they put it on its stand , and it gives light to everyone in the house . In the same way , let your light shine before men , that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. `` If I truly believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour ( and I do ) , then I must follow His command to influence ( not force ) the whole world . It does n't do any good to only preach to the preached .""",DISAGREE,"""but why should you try and force your beliefs on others ?""","""are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ? Second , forcing someone to believe as I do is in no way the essence of Christianity . God gives choices ( which is another debate ) to man . ``""",,
14006,3706,"""On your link , the star shown is red in color .""","""Just to be sure you understood , it was the picture below that picture you were supposed to look at .""",DISAGREE,"""the star shown is red in color""","""it was the picture below that picture you were supposed to look at .""",,
14008,3706,"""On your link , the star shown is red in color .""","""Just to be sure you understood , it was the picture below that picture you were supposed to look at .""",DISAGREE,"""On your link , the star shown is red in color .""","""it was the picture below that picture you were supposed to look at""",,
14057,3722,"""So if Utah made a law or a governor stated that christians did n't need protection because of their beliefs even if there were incidents of anti chrisitan beating and harassment let alone murder for their beliefs you would just say let states have their own laws ?""","""People are protected by law from being harassed , assaulted and/or murdered because they are people . Not because they are a certain religion . Because they are people it would be wrong to allow such things .""",DISAGREE,"""law anti chrisitan beating and harassment""","""People are protected by law from being harassed , assaulted and/or murdered because they are people .""",,
14056,3722,"""So if Utah made a law or a governor stated that christians did n't need protection because of their beliefs even if there were incidents of anti chrisitan beating and harassment let alone murder for their beliefs you would just say let states have their own laws ?""","""People are protected by law from being harassed , assaulted and/or murdered because they are people . Not because they are a certain religion . Because they are people it would be wrong to allow such things .""",DISAGREE,"""if Utah made a law or a governor stated that christians did n't need protection because of their beliefs""","""People are protected by law from being harassed , assaulted and/or murdered because they are people .""",,
14093,3727,"""Bad comparisons . A fair comparison would be comparing the total number of defensive gun uses to the total number of gun crimes ( not just limiting it to gun homicides ) .""","""Kellerman was n't fair when he did the comparisons for his study , do n't get upset when I use the same standard of review against you .""",DISAGREE,"""Bad comparisons . A fair comparison would be comparing the total number of defensive gun uses to the total number of gun crimes ( not just limiting it to gun homicides ) .""","""do n't get upset when I use the same standard of review against you .""",,
14111,3728,"""I heard just shortly after the official passage that the nutters at the ACLU were already poised to argue that the State Supreme Court reverse the decision for the exact opposite reason they argued to block Pro 22 , geeez talk about get your arguments straight . It will get dismissed as frivolous just like last time ... these big babies are suffering from `` shallow hal `` disorder ... they somehow believe of the majority votes in their favor - then it is a mandate , but the minute it is n't in their favor ... [ well ] they fall into a grand mal seizure . There must not be something `` fair `` in it as far as they are concerned - Fair has nothing to do with it , our laws do n't exist for fairness sake ... they exist for clarity . Let 's not forget the most important over arching reality here ... this is something that is n't even supposed to be up for discussion for legislative agenda . We have no business even talking this nonsense ... gays are not some `` class `` that need to be protected . They are citizens engaging in a behavior that falls wildly short of the overall purview of not only the electorate as the existing status quo [ regardless of political affiliation ] but is nothing short of a deviant sexual proclivity , that ... and our laws do n't ' exist to morally equivocate deviancy with that of the morally clear . It is a simple matter of constants vs. variables ... our laws protect what you are [ the constant ] not who you become [ the variable ] , what then do we say ? do we create laws and burden our courts with personal subjectivity ... or do we look to the objective as we have , and should continue to do so . These radical homosexual activists are literally insane to think people are simply going to let them walk all over the natural order of things in favor of a bio [ illogical ] behavior ? The US Constitution does not guarantee the equality of feelings , nor does it behavior . People have to start clearing the closet ... so to speak , and simply be down to earth and accept that not all your decisions are going to be popular ones , and homosexuality is one of them - and you certainly do n't win fans by thinking you can leverage the guilt game on people even thinking you can draw comparisons between color [ innate ] and sexual preference [ choice ] as a basis for some perceived civil right , it is just plain and utter nonsense .""","""So you yourself could have gone gay but chose to be attracted to women ?""",DISAGREE,"""these big babies are suffering from `` shallow hal `` disorder ... they somehow believe of the majority votes in their favor""","""you yourself could have gone gay but chose to be attracted to women ?""",,
14105,3728,"""I heard just shortly after the official passage that the nutters at the ACLU were already poised to argue that the State Supreme Court reverse the decision for the exact opposite reason they argued to block Pro 22 , geeez talk about get your arguments straight . It will get dismissed as frivolous just like last time ... these big babies are suffering from `` shallow hal `` disorder ... they somehow believe of the majority votes in their favor - then it is a mandate , but the minute it is n't in their favor ... [ well ] they fall into a grand mal seizure . There must not be something `` fair `` in it as far as they are concerned - Fair has nothing to do with it , our laws do n't exist for fairness sake ... they exist for clarity . Let 's not forget the most important over arching reality here ... this is something that is n't even supposed to be up for discussion for legislative agenda . We have no business even talking this nonsense ... gays are not some `` class `` that need to be protected . They are citizens engaging in a behavior that falls wildly short of the overall purview of not only the electorate as the existing status quo [ regardless of political affiliation ] but is nothing short of a deviant sexual proclivity , that ... and our laws do n't ' exist to morally equivocate deviancy with that of the morally clear . It is a simple matter of constants vs. variables ... our laws protect what you are [ the constant ] not who you become [ the variable ] , what then do we say ? do we create laws and burden our courts with personal subjectivity ... or do we look to the objective as we have , and should continue to do so . These radical homosexual activists are literally insane to think people are simply going to let them walk all over the natural order of things in favor of a bio [ illogical ] behavior ? The US Constitution does not guarantee the equality of feelings , nor does it behavior . People have to start clearing the closet ... so to speak , and simply be down to earth and accept that not all your decisions are going to be popular ones , and homosexuality is one of them - and you certainly do n't win fans by thinking you can leverage the guilt game on people even thinking you can draw comparisons between color [ innate ] and sexual preference [ choice ] as a basis for some perceived civil right , it is just plain and utter nonsense .""","""So you yourself could have gone gay but chose to be attracted to women ?""",DISAGREE,"""I heard just shortly after the official passage that the nutters at the ACLU were already poised to argue that the State Supreme Court reverse the decision for the exact opposite reason they argued to block Pro 22 , geeez talk about get your arguments straight . It will get dismissed as frivolous just like last time ... these big babies are suffering from `` shallow hal `` disorder ... they somehow believe of the majority votes in their favor""","""So you yourself could have gone gay but chose to be attracted to women ?""",,
14118,3729,"""It actually saves us money . The death penalty ( because of appeals ) costs more than solitary confinement for life , both of which would ensure that the person would never kill again . Also I have the same question for drug users , gamblers , etc . Why make society pay to imprison them when all they are doing is hurt themselves ?""","""Actually , the idea that the death penalty costs more than lifetime imprisonment has been disproved many times . The lowest estimate of the yearly cost for imprisoning somebody is around $ 22,000 . The average amount of time a prisoner spends imprisoned after getting a life sentence is 60 years . Take into account the cost of building jails in order to house all these prisoners and you up the amount even more . After the average of 60 years for a life sentence , tax payers have spent $ 1,320,000 on ONE SINGLE PERSON . Imagine what this money could do in the education system ? You said yourself , the only thing that may push the cost of the death penalty over life imprisonment is the ridiculous amount of appeals that are given . If only one appeal was given before the sentence was final , it would be far cheaper to exectue somebody than imprison them for life . How many times does a person need to prove their innocence ? If they ca n't do it in the initial trial and after one appeal , sorry , game over ... you lose . You can read more at this site : http : //www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~tonya/spring/cap/pro5.htm""",DISAGREE,"""death penalty ( because of appeals ) costs more than solitary confinement for life , both of which would ensure that the person would never kill again""","""Actually , the idea that the death penalty costs more than lifetime imprisonment has been disproved many times""",,
14126,3730,"""The reality is we all live on faith .""","""no , you just live on delusions . you ca n't argue the merits of creationism on their own because they do n't exist . Creationism is a fraud regardless of the existance of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""reality is we all live on faith .""","""no , you just live on delusions . you ca n't argue the merits of creationism on their own because they do n't exist""",,
14128,3730,"""The reality is we all live on faith .""","""no , you just live on delusions . you ca n't argue the merits of creationism on their own because they do n't exist . Creationism is a fraud regardless of the existance of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""The reality is we all live on faith .""","""no , you just live on delusions .""",,
14142,3731,"""Originally posted by lukecrouch What about the woodpecker argument ? Has anyone mentioned that yet ?""","""Which woodpecker argument ?""",DISAGREE,"""posted by lukecrouch What about the woodpecker argument""","""Which woodpecker argument""",,
14152,3732,"""A finely crafted handful of dust , gone in a par-sec , out like an old t.v . set ? Pick up a handful of dust and blow it . Gaze at the cemetaries at your most convenient moment , and ask yourself does life end here ? Non recycleable energy , never to be used again ? [ color=dark blue ] Has not Science taught us better than this ? [ /color ] Death , so inaccurataley confused/defined with the natural & amp ; programmed Evolution of the human species , a transformation of sorts , one might compare it to a capiller changing to a butterfly Living in the flesh is a challenge and a experience , but there comes a time when we just have to thank God for the dust and move on .......""","""its difficult to merge life in its purest form with science , even though science 's purpose is to study life . for instance , can life be defined as energy ? can life be compared with energy ? if so , then birth becomes as much of an enigma as death ; is energy created too ? ( not really addressing the debate , but more like raising more thoughts to debate on ... )""",DISAGREE,"""t.v . set ? cemetaries recycleable [ color=dark blue ] [ /color ] inaccurataley confused/defined programmed transformation""","""science science 's purpose energy ? enigma created too ?""",,
14156,3733,"""< snip of silly , irrelevant religious claptrap > Creation is not a necessity , but I have yet to see substantial evidence to disprove it .""","""But you have n't looked . You may claim that your god did it , and no evidence to support or deny that can be offered . The assertion relies on miracle and has no suporting evidence . But when you start talking about how your god did it , your claims can be debunked by facts . Certainly the mythology of ancient nomadic herdsmen is not accurate . If you look at the world and the history of the world the is evident in the geologic strata , then you can see that the earth is very old , and you can see a succession of organisms through time . When considered with other fields of science from genetics to biogeography to physiology and anatomy , evolution becomes apparent .""",DISAGREE,"""Creation is not a necessity , but I have yet to see substantial evidence to disprove it .""","""But you have n't looked . You may claim that your god did it , and no evidence to support or deny that can be offered""",,
14191,3736,"""What makes you think the politics of the parents will be the politics of the children ?""","""In the case of Demorats and liberals ; it is monkey see , monkey do .""",AGREE,"""makes you think the politics politics of the children ?""","""In the case of Demorats and liberals monkey see , monkey do .""",,
14204,3738,"""Any time you have a benefits plan , you are going to have to have limits on it . Try actually READING your article and THINKING as you do . So , you are talking an incredibly expensive drug that MAY work 20 % of the time when it is used . Are they just letting these people die .... giving them morphine for the pain and letting them waste away ? No So , what is the current treatment and how effective is it ? Obviously it is more COST effective . We dont know what the current treatment is , or how effective it is , because what you posted here is a one sided opinion piece masquerading as a news article , and you ate it up .""","""Agreed . You might also ask whether you treat 1 cancer patient with this new expensiveand unreliable drug , or many patients with a different drug , or a different condition . The money has to stop somewhere .""",AGREE,"""Any time you have a benefits plan , you are going to have to have limits on it . Try actually READING your article and THINKING as you do""","""Agreed .""",,
14216,3739,"""But how often do contraceptives fail ? Planned Parenthood ’ s Alan Guttmacher Institute reported on 10,000 women getting abortions . Of these , 57.5 % said they were using a contraceptive the month they became pregnant . In a similar study in 1987 the figure was 51.3 % .""","""Contraceptives ( for example a condom/ the pill ) are n't going to last a month effectively . Then there 's the fact that contraceptives , given the above data , can still be 99 % effective , as it does n't mention how many pregnancies they 've prevented . What does the writer make of this though ? '' According to this , condoms have a high failure rate for pregnancy. ``""",DISAGREE,"""But how often do contraceptives fail ? Planned Parenthood ’ s Alan Guttmacher Institute reported on 10,000 women getting abortions . Of these , 57.5 % said they were using a contraceptive the month they became pregnant . In a similar study in 1987 the figure was 51.3 % .""","""Contraceptives ( for example a condom/ the pill ) are n't going to last a month effectively . Then there 's the fact that contraceptives , given the above data , can still be 99 % effective , as it does n't mention how many pregnancies they 've prevented . ''""",,
14227,3740,"""I guess that is your opinion , so if you ever get raped do n't get an abortion.The point is , is that it is a choice and not yours.If a women ( girl ) is molested or raped and does n't feel comfortable keeping the baby who are you to decide that for them ? Personally if I were raped and became pregnant I WOULD NOT keep the fetus , if someone else thought differently and they decided to keep a rape fetus more power to them , but do n't expect everbody to feel the same as you do.The best person to make that choice is the one that has been through the rape/incest and has to live with the outcome .""","""Do I have tell you exactly how many rape/incest victims are the ones who decide an abortion is neccessary ? How many of them need to have counseling years afterwards because they had the abortion , not because they were a rape/incest victim ? There are very few if any girls in the U.S. that would have an abortion after an experience like that . It 's the family and relations that force them into it in order to keep the matter hush-hush . No doubt some of those reasons seem good , but abortion is an incorrect solution . The help a victim should get is a hug , some tears and comforting words so that they view their future life in a positive light . Instead , they bury them in words of `` GET AN ABORTION , YOU 'LL FEEL BETTER LATER `` . Yeah right . Oh , I think I 'll add that only 1 % of abortions performed yearly are for rape/incest cases . And some years it may even drop lower than that . Should we keep abortion legal for just that 1 % ?""",DISAGREE,"""a women ( girl ) is molested or raped and does n't feel comfortable keeping the baby who are you to decide that for them ?""","""Do I have tell you exactly how many rape/incest victims are the ones who decide an abortion is neccessary ? How many of them need to have counseling years afterwards because they had the abortion , not because they were a rape/incest victim ? There are very few if any girls in the U.S. that would have an abortion after an experience like that . ``""",,
14229,3740,"""I guess that is your opinion , so if you ever get raped do n't get an abortion.The point is , is that it is a choice and not yours.If a women ( girl ) is molested or raped and does n't feel comfortable keeping the baby who are you to decide that for them ? Personally if I were raped and became pregnant I WOULD NOT keep the fetus , if someone else thought differently and they decided to keep a rape fetus more power to them , but do n't expect everbody to feel the same as you do.The best person to make that choice is the one that has been through the rape/incest and has to live with the outcome .""","""Do I have tell you exactly how many rape/incest victims are the ones who decide an abortion is neccessary ? How many of them need to have counseling years afterwards because they had the abortion , not because they were a rape/incest victim ? There are very few if any girls in the U.S. that would have an abortion after an experience like that . It 's the family and relations that force them into it in order to keep the matter hush-hush . No doubt some of those reasons seem good , but abortion is an incorrect solution . The help a victim should get is a hug , some tears and comforting words so that they view their future life in a positive light . Instead , they bury them in words of `` GET AN ABORTION , YOU 'LL FEEL BETTER LATER `` . Yeah right . Oh , I think I 'll add that only 1 % of abortions performed yearly are for rape/incest cases . And some years it may even drop lower than that . Should we keep abortion legal for just that 1 % ?""",DISAGREE,"""I guess that is your opinion , so if you ever get raped do n't get an""","""Do I have tell you exactly how many rape/incest victims are the ones who decide an abortion is neccessary ?""",,
14241,3741,"""Omegamon_X said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind : Mainly : why ? Specifically , why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? Statistically , the risk of such is relatively low compared to , say , the leading killer in the developed world . You face a much greater threat of potential harm from that than at the hands of a criminal . Are you as adamant about eating healthy as you are about the need to have a gun ? The fact is , we all constantly face the threat of potential harm every minute of every day . Risk is a part of living . I would like to know why guns specifically are needed to mitigate the risk of being the victim of a crime , when other methods ( better locks , alarms , non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and tasers ) can be effective .""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ? It seems completely idiotic to me . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? would like to know why guns specifically are needed to mitigate the risk of being the victim of a crime""","""why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ?""",,
14235,3741,"""Omegamon_X said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind : Mainly : why ? Specifically , why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? Statistically , the risk of such is relatively low compared to , say , the leading killer in the developed world . You face a much greater threat of potential harm from that than at the hands of a criminal . Are you as adamant about eating healthy as you are about the need to have a gun ? The fact is , we all constantly face the threat of potential harm every minute of every day . Risk is a part of living . I would like to know why guns specifically are needed to mitigate the risk of being the victim of a crime , when other methods ( better locks , alarms , non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and tasers ) can be effective .""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ? It seems completely idiotic to me . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""Specifically , why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? Statistically , the risk of such is relatively low compared to , say , the leading killer in the developed world .""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ? It seems completely idiotic to me""",,
14239,3741,"""Omegamon_X said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind : Mainly : why ? Specifically , why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? Statistically , the risk of such is relatively low compared to , say , the leading killer in the developed world . You face a much greater threat of potential harm from that than at the hands of a criminal . Are you as adamant about eating healthy as you are about the need to have a gun ? The fact is , we all constantly face the threat of potential harm every minute of every day . Risk is a part of living . I would like to know why guns specifically are needed to mitigate the risk of being the victim of a crime , when other methods ( better locks , alarms , non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and tasers ) can be effective .""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ? It seems completely idiotic to me . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""Omegamon_X said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind :""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly""",,
14236,3741,"""Omegamon_X said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind : Mainly : why ? Specifically , why worry about the threat of potential harm from criminals ? Statistically , the risk of such is relatively low compared to , say , the leading killer in the developed world . You face a much greater threat of potential harm from that than at the hands of a criminal . Are you as adamant about eating healthy as you are about the need to have a gun ? The fact is , we all constantly face the threat of potential harm every minute of every day . Risk is a part of living . I would like to know why guns specifically are needed to mitigate the risk of being the victim of a crime , when other methods ( better locks , alarms , non-lethal weapons like pepper spray and tasers ) can be effective .""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ? It seems completely idiotic to me . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""said something in another thread that that raised some questions in my mind : Mainly : why ?""","""I think a more telling question would be , why the hell would you rather feel constantly threatened than feel safe ?""",,
14243,3742,"""No , you need to read more carefully : Botched abortions are one of the causes of death , but the primary causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor . And , if abortion were safe and legal and offered as an option during the early term of a pregnancy , particularly in the case of young girls , that cause of death would be dramatically reduced .""","""Do you suggest that the USA send supplies or doctors to perform these abortions or that Tanzania does it ?""",DISAGREE,"""abortions are one of the causes of death causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor""","""Do you suggest that the USA send supplies doctors to perform these abortions""",,
14248,3742,"""No , you need to read more carefully : Botched abortions are one of the causes of death , but the primary causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor . And , if abortion were safe and legal and offered as an option during the early term of a pregnancy , particularly in the case of young girls , that cause of death would be dramatically reduced .""","""Do you suggest that the USA send supplies or doctors to perform these abortions or that Tanzania does it ?""",DISAGREE,"""No , you need to read more carefully : Botched abortions are one of the causes of death , but the primary causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor""","""Do you suggest that the USA send supplies or doctors to perform these abortions or that Tanzania does it ?""",,
14251,3742,"""No , you need to read more carefully : Botched abortions are one of the causes of death , but the primary causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor . And , if abortion were safe and legal and offered as an option during the early term of a pregnancy , particularly in the case of young girls , that cause of death would be dramatically reduced .""","""Do you suggest that the USA send supplies or doctors to perform these abortions or that Tanzania does it ?""",DISAGREE,"""Botched abortions are one of the causes of death , but the primary causes of death are bleeding , infection , high blood pressure and prolonged labor .""","""Tanzania""",,
14262,3744,"""You know , I 'm an evolutionist too , but I do think there 's entirely too much vitriol toward creationists out there right now . I rarely read a post , blog article , or editorial where ID'ers are n't insulted and intentionally belittled . People are making heroes out of hateful people like Dawkins who seem to get a lot of glee out of belittling and insulting people . For some unfortunate reason , a lot of scientists seem to have moved from being fact-driven , objective observers to being what amounts to belligerent ideologues . I have n't seen Expelled yet , but I think that 's part of what it 's trying to get across , according to what I 've read . This change in tact by scientists is too bad , because I think evolution and the facts would be better served by taking the high road . The facts do n't NEED insults to be facts ; science does n't need evangelism and crusading to be science . If scientists think that it does , then these scientists must think it 's pretty weak science to begin with . I think this new culture of ridicule among scientists is probably doing as much to hurt what they think of as a cause , rather than helping it .""","""Well stated . Whatever the reason , the new culture of ridicule IS there . When you see the in person comments of Dawkins , Provine , Myers , you 'll know where posters here get it from . I hope you 'll watch the movie , and post up what you think .""",AGREE,"""You know , I 'm an evolutionist too , but I do think there 's entirely too much vitriol toward creationists out there right now .""","""I hope you 'll watch the movie , and post up what you think""",,
14271,3744,"""You know , I 'm an evolutionist too , but I do think there 's entirely too much vitriol toward creationists out there right now . I rarely read a post , blog article , or editorial where ID'ers are n't insulted and intentionally belittled . People are making heroes out of hateful people like Dawkins who seem to get a lot of glee out of belittling and insulting people . For some unfortunate reason , a lot of scientists seem to have moved from being fact-driven , objective observers to being what amounts to belligerent ideologues . I have n't seen Expelled yet , but I think that 's part of what it 's trying to get across , according to what I 've read . This change in tact by scientists is too bad , because I think evolution and the facts would be better served by taking the high road . The facts do n't NEED insults to be facts ; science does n't need evangelism and crusading to be science . If scientists think that it does , then these scientists must think it 's pretty weak science to begin with . I think this new culture of ridicule among scientists is probably doing as much to hurt what they think of as a cause , rather than helping it .""","""Well stated . Whatever the reason , the new culture of ridicule IS there . When you see the in person comments of Dawkins , Provine , Myers , you 'll know where posters here get it from . I hope you 'll watch the movie , and post up what you think .""",AGREE,"""I 'm an evolutionist too , but I do think there 's entirely too much vitriol toward creationists""","""Whatever the reason , the new culture of ridicule IS there . When you see the in person""",,
14278,3745,"""Many posts ago I told you that I could n't relocate the link , and so to forget about it , but you keep bringing it back , like a puppy with a chewed up slipper . Why is that ?""","""Because you asked me to quote your lies . I did . Not only can you not find whichever source you claim speaks of birds ' infrared vision , you apparently ca n't find any source that does so . Despite this , you 've been whining about how visible and UV camouflage must be moot because of birds IR vision . And to top it off , rather than admit to your mistaken memory , you 're blaming the imaginary source :""",DISAGREE,"""Many posts ago I told you that I could n't relocate the link , and so to forget about it , but you keep bringing it back , like a puppy with a chewed up slipper . Why is that ?""","""Because you asked me to quote your lies . I did .""",,
14282,3746,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event . In which case the Bible remains true . In fact many Christians , Jews and Muslims take this view .""","""Without the Fall , Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected . Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",AGREE,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true ,""","""Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected .""",,
14285,3746,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event . In which case the Bible remains true . In fact many Christians , Jews and Muslims take this view .""","""Without the Fall , Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected . Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",AGREE,"""if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event .""","""Without the Fall , Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected . Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",,
14283,3746,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event . In which case the Bible remains true . In fact many Christians , Jews and Muslims take this view .""","""Without the Fall , Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected . Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",AGREE,"""In which case the Bible remains true""","""Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",,
14284,3746,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event . In which case the Bible remains true . In fact many Christians , Jews and Muslims take this view .""","""Without the Fall , Jesus would have no need to come to earth and be resurrected . Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",AGREE,"""the problem is , if evolution is indeed true , then the story in Genesis is false . and if Genesis is false , then the Bible is not entirely true Or perhaps Genesis is a moral story and is n't supposed to be a literal event""","""Without Genesis , the entire bible-as-literal kinda falls apart .""",,
14296,3748,"""Can you tell me how it is that gene transferred horizontally ( without going through selection ) validates darwinism , which says all beneficial traits must pass through selection in order to be adapted ?""","""Fascinating - you blew right through your own usual misunderstandings of Darwinism and Darwinists and ended up with a sentence that is actually meaningful . HGT ( along with genetic drift ) are important parts of modern evolutionary theory , but they do indeed have nothing to do with darwinian evolution sensu stricto , which does indeed insist on natural selection . This is why evolutionary biologists object to being called Darwinists in the sense that you and WW usually try to impose on us , and it is why we insist that there is more to evolution than natural selection or RM & amp ; NS alone , and it is why we talk about the Neodarwinian Synthesis and Modern Evolutionary Theory . HGT validates the modern ToE . Modern evolutionary theory incorporates Darwin 's version , and lot 's more . HGT is part of the `` lots more `` . Some versions of lateral gene transfer have been accepted and studied for many decades , notably versions of conjugation in bacteria . ( It was n't until biologists were able to start sequencing DNA in quantity that we were able to see all the retroviral DNA segments and so forth . ) When someone like Gould ( for example ) talks about Darwinian evolution , depending on context , they are talking about either 1 ) the historical early version of the ToE as Darwin envisaged it , 2 ) the position that natural selection is the dominant process in evolution , or 3 ) an instance of evolutionary change in which natural selection is inferred to have been by far the most significant process . Evolution has moved well beyond Darwin 's initial ideas to include mutations , recombination , and genetic drift , including HGT , in all sorts of combinations with each other and with natural selection . As Chemist says , once HGT has occurred , the new version with the new genes can easily find itself competing with the old version , providing another way that NS can be involved , but it does n't have to be . NS is just not all there is to evolution . I ca n't wait to see how you are going to misinterpret this next .""",DISAGREE,"""Can you tell me how it is that gene transferred horizontally (""","""Fascinating - you blew right through your own usual misunderstandings of Darwinism and Darwinists""",,
14307,3750,"""Boopie , you ca n't be Catholic and support aborton . You 're automatically excommunicated if you support abortion and only can come back into the church via confession .""","""Excuse me , but you did n't fully read what he wrote . He did n't say that he supported abortion . He said that he was n't as much a freak about it as you 're being .""",DISAGREE,"""Boopie , you ca n't be Catholic and support aborton""","""Excuse me , but you did n't fully read what he wrote""",,
14326,3774,"""It means even more mass shootings !""","""Only a microscopic number of mass shootings involved the killer holding a concealed carry permit . Plus you ca n't prove the lack of a concealed carry permit would actually stop any killings .""",DISAGREE,"""It means even more mass shootings !""","""Only a microscopic number of mass shootings involved the killer holding a concealed carry permit .""",,
14331,3775,"""You 're starting to sound like someone who understands evolution . I do n't see your argument here , you 're basically supporting the steps necessary for natural selection . What you describe is one small step for evolution , you just have to repeat this 1,000,000 times over various other environmental and competitive contraints ( sic ) and viola , you 'll probably see evolution at work on a scale that you can recognize . You 're almost there montalban ! -Mach""","""Then a man who needs an artificial heart to survive is a new species of man . That is the analogy I gave , and you ignored . In both cases ; human and bacteria , before the advent of a human product , a particular group of individuals from each larger group would die off . BUT along come a man-made invention that allows those certain portions to live on which otherwise would have died . In once case - nylon , the other , the artificial heart . You call this evolution . Nor is it 'natural selection ' at work either , as in both cases the thing that enabled them to survive was not natural . What you have advanced as a proof of evolution actually proves what ? Natural what ? I suppose people with cochlear implants are new species too because they 've learnt to hear . Another view of this nylon-eating-bug is given ... `` Finally , Mr Cerutti is out of date about this new nylon digesting ability allegedly from a frame shift . New evidence shows that the ability was due to plasmids [ e.g . K. Kato , et al. , ? A plasmid encoding enzymes for nylon oligomer degradation : Nucleotide sequence analysis of pOAD2 ? , Microbiology ( Reading ) 141 ( 10 ) :2585 ? 2590 , 1995 . ] In fact , more than one species of bacteria have the ability , residing on plasmids . This suggests that the information probably already existed , and was just passed between different types of bacteria. `` '' All that would be needed to enable an enzyme to digest nylon is a mutation causing loss of specificity in a proteolytic ( protein-degrading ) enzyme . This may seem surprising ? How would a loss of information create a new ability ? Answer : enzymes are usually tuned very precisely to only one type of molecule ( the substrate ) . Loss of information would reduce the effectiveness of its primary function , but would enable it to degrade other substrates , too . Since both nylon and proteins are broken down by breaking amide linkages , a change in a proteolytic enzyme could also allow it to work on nylon . If this process were continued , the result would be a general enzyme with a weakly catalytic effect on the hydrolysis of too many chemicals to be useful where much selectivity is required . To put it into perspective , acids and alkalis also catalyze many hydrolysis reactions , but they also lack specificity . Indeed , an inhibitor of a protein degrading enzyme also inhibits the action of the nylon degrading enzyme `` http : //www.answersingenesis.org/home ... e7-24-2000.asp Talkorigins gave their usual doubletalk `` Whilst this particular case does not `` prove `` evolution , it is consistent with , and supportive of , the theory of biological evolution. `` Why do they say this ? Because it 's still a bacteria . It 's not like it suddenly became a large multi-cellular organism . But it might just prove that this bug was so well designed that it can cope with newer situations . One site does say that it , the bacteria , had the capability already within it of change ? not resultant in ? mutations ? , but more like switching on previously dormant apparatus . http : //members.tripod.com/aslodge/id89.htm One poster on another forum summed the problem up like this ... `` In order for species to advance there would have to be a net information gain , which is n't the case with nylon eating bacteria . The bacteria gained the ability to digest nylon , therefore was able to survive in a new environment . Two distinct advantages But , the bacteria lost its ability to survive in its old environment , eat its former diet and suffered a 98 % loss in efficiency . Three disadvantages . So by taking two steps forward and three steps backward , where is the net gain ? If nylon eating bacteria was `` proof `` of evolution , we would still be pond scum , but with the ability to digest whatever happened to become the primary food source. `` http : //www.christianforums.com/t52336""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't see your argument here , you 're basically supporting the steps necessary for natural selection .""","""Then a man who needs an artificial heart to survive is a new species of man . That is the analogy I gave , and you ignored .""",,
14348,3780,"""Well , I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically ( it 's generally a good quality for an accountant and tax attorney to have ) . The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments . In evolution as is usually meant by the word you are talking about the formation of an entirely new creature from inorganic compounds . If this is possible I pose a few questions for you . 1 ) Why have no new creatures evolved from inorganic compounds in human memory ? 2 ) How did these inorganic compounds decide that some creatures should evolve , while others of the same species did not ? Why are there not some apes that have evolved into humans by now ? Why did n't all apes evolve into humans ? 3 ) One of my favorite pieces of confusion from evolutionists involve fossils . How do you know how old a fossil is ? Every evolutionist I have asked has stated that fossils are dated by the rock layer they are found in , but if you then ask them how the rock layer is dated they answer that it is dated by the fossils that where discovered in it ! That 's a classical example of circular reasoning . I am not a scientist , so I can not present all the evidence against evolution as clearly as someone with a scientific education and background might do . If you are truly interested in learning more about the creationist arguments against evolution you can check out the article located at http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp . This article also has many links to other articles with even more information .""","""Well , that is a load of lots of misinformation , and some misconceptions . The reason that we do have not observed any life coming from non-life is for several reasons . 1 ) the environment is changed . We no longer have a methane atmosphere that is full of organic matrials . 2 ) even if some did come , how would we know ? If we came accross it , we would assume it was there for a long time . You are incorrect about dating fossils . One way that fossils are dated is vis radiometric dating . I know answer in geneis has a lot of misinformation ( and plain out lies ) about radiometiric dating . Here is a link to a web site that explains it , and also answers the critiism of creationists http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dating.html We have seen 'answers in genesis ' many many times . They make a lot of invalid asserstoins , and basically are ignorant when ti comes to science . Their main arguenent consist of misrreprenting the viewpoint of science , the logical fallaciy of personal incredibilty , and the logical fallacy of the arguement from ignorance .""",DISAGREE,"""The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments .""","""that is a load of lots of misinformation , and some misconceptions . The reason that we do have not observed any life coming from non-life is for several reasons .""",,
14357,3781,"""Where 'd you get the idea that Vitter was a Fundamental Christian ? He 's a Roman Catholic , just like Ted Kennedy . Does that make Ted a fundie , too ?""","""No Ted Kennedy is not a fundie but Vitter is . For God sake the pope is a nazi and a fundie . Marlene Elwell , the nazi * itch , who put the evil mariage amendment on the michigan ballot is a Roman Catholic also . If you are a christian and you believe in the suppression of homosexuality then you are a fundie and a christianist .""",DISAGREE,"""a Roman Catholic , Ted Kennedy .""","""Ted Catholic""",,
14354,3781,"""Where 'd you get the idea that Vitter was a Fundamental Christian ? He 's a Roman Catholic , just like Ted Kennedy . Does that make Ted a fundie , too ?""","""No Ted Kennedy is not a fundie but Vitter is . For God sake the pope is a nazi and a fundie . Marlene Elwell , the nazi * itch , who put the evil mariage amendment on the michigan ballot is a Roman Catholic also . If you are a christian and you believe in the suppression of homosexuality then you are a fundie and a christianist .""",DISAGREE,"""He 's a Roman Catholic , just like Ted Kennedy . Does that make Ted a fundie , too ?""","""No Ted Kennedy is not a fundie but Vitter is . For God sake the pope is a nazi and a fundie .""",,
14375,3784,"""So what else is new ? Does Texas support the death penalty ?""","""Well do you mean Texas or Texans ? Because Texas holds the record for execusions in the US . Not something I 'd be proud of .""",DISAGREE,"""So what else is new ? Does Texas support the death penalty ?""","""Well do you mean Texas or Texans ?""",,
14371,3784,"""So what else is new ? Does Texas support the death penalty ?""","""Well do you mean Texas or Texans ? Because Texas holds the record for execusions in the US . Not something I 'd be proud of .""",DISAGREE,"""Does Texas support the death penalty ?""","""do you mean Texas or Texans ? Because Texas holds the record for execusions in the US .""",,
14384,3786,"""And you condemn people for dancing in the blood of the victims ?""","""Yes I do . Anytime there 's a mass killing , you and your ilk are holding it up as an example of how we need more gun control , how we have to reduce the rights of the people so those that die wo n't have died in vain .""",AGREE,"""you condemn people for dancing in the blood of the victims ?""","""Yes I do .""",,
14390,3787,"""And I 'll bet the formal list of `` great physicists `` who preceded the development of the theory of evolution is meaningful . I wonder how many of these `` great physicists `` also believed that night air could make them ill ? How many beleived in alchemy , like Newton ? I wonder if Newton is in that list ? He did n't believe in the divinity of Christ .""","""This was a comment on the physics book that has biographies of great physicists that were Bible believing christians . Right . Many believed in alchemy ( they were wrong ) , harmful effects of night air ( they were wrong ) , spontaneous growth of maggots from rotting meat ( they were wrong ) , rats arising from grain ( they were wrong ) , and the Bible ( they were wrong ) . If it is important that Newton believed in the Bible , why is n't it as important that he believed in alchemy and did not believe in the divinity of Christ . There is n't any such thing as science from a Christian perspective . Either it is science , or it is n't . You claimed to have studied evolution . You did n't . Why would you tell us that you did ?""",DISAGREE,"""And I 'll bet the formal list of `` great physicists `` who preceded the development of the theory of evolution is meaningful . I wonder how many of these `` great physicists `` also believed that night air could make them ill ? Newton""","""This was a comment on the physics book that has biographies of great physicists that were Bible believing christians . Right . Many believed in alchemy ( they were wrong ) , harmful effects of night air ( they were wrong ) , spontaneous growth of maggots from rotting meat ( they were wrong ) , rats arising from grain ( they were wrong ) , and the Bible ( they were wrong ) . If it is important that Newton believed in the Bible , why is n't it as important that he believed in alchemy and did not believe in the divinity of Christ .""",,
14394,3795,"""You 've never seen a skyscraper or a Ford F-150 ? You must not get out much . Everything on earth is found in nature , because nature encompasses everything on earth . Consider that some being with intelligence that far surpasses ours witnesses life on earth . Consider that they may say , `` Look , how cute ! These particular animals manipulate their environment more than any of the other animals. `` We are still a part of nature .""","""You not differentiating between the beaver and the beaver dam , the bird and the bird 's nest or the man and the man 's truck . The dams , nests and truck do not occur naturally ... they are constructed by the naturally occuring animals using materials that occur in nature ( albeit we have to smelt the iron and vulcanize the rubber whilst the birds and beavers just stick stuff together ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Everything on earth is found in nature , because nature encompasses everything on earth . Consider that some being with intelligence that far surpasses ours witnesses life on earth .""","""The dams , nests and truck do not occur naturally ... they are constructed by the naturally occuring animals using materials that occur in nature""",,
14402,3797,"""Sorry if this is the wrong forum , but a weapon is a weapon so here I am . I am a photographer , and I photograph mostly landscapes and cityscapes . I have traveled to numerous cities ( LA , 'Frisco , NYC , etc . ) to photograph its buildings , culture , and people . The law regarding the carry and use of pepper spray does not make any sense to me . In all of these places , I am not legally permitted to carry pepper spray because of my age . In all three of these cities as in most states , it is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to carry pepper spray . Are n't we the ones who need the most protection ? I 'm only 16 , and I 'm a little short and quite skinny . I seriously do n't feel safe marching around the city sporting expensive and flashy camera gear , but I do n't really have a choice . Some of the most interesting places to photograph are poverty stricken and usually unsafe . With child molesters , rapists , robbers , etc out there just waiting to take advantage of a minor because of his/her small size , would n't the carrying of pepper spray not only be legal but encouraged ? I do n't understand how any state could leave one of their physically weakest minorities so vulnerable . I can understand limiting the possession of knives and guns to minors , because those are both deadly weapons and , to be frank , some of my peers are numbskulls . But , both pepper spray and stun guns have been proven to do no permanent damage to the human body . By the time one is about 15 , one is responsible enough to know not to spray someone because `` he gave me a funny look `` , `` I do n't like him `` , or employ its use in a fist fight . If every child molester knew most teenagers were packin non-lethal weapons , do you think he would still attack ? Can someone please explain this to me ?""","""Most of the laws of the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia are aimed at rendering the citizens into prey . You ca n't point to many that do n't . Self defense is not allowed there I am afraid .""",AGREE,"""The law regarding the carry and use of pepper spray does not make any sense to me . In all of these places , I am not legally permitted to carry pepper spray because of my age . ``""","""Most of the laws of the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia are aimed at rendering the citizens into prey Self defense is not allowed there""",,
14409,3800,"""Abstinence until marriage is still the best way .""","""Abstinence until you are old enough to handle sexual relationships responsibly should most certainly be preached along with information about and access to birth control . There are plenty of us who have no interest in the institution of marriage - your religion should not determine who amongst is a sexually active adult . Not to mention we have got to stop pushing the got ta get married have a partner to be a happy seccuesful person message - ESPECIALLY TO GIRLS - it will lead to sex , for heaven forbid they be SINGLE .""",DISAGREE,"""Abstinence until marriage is still the best way .""","""Abstinence until you are old enough to handle sexual relationships responsibly should most certainly be preached along with information about and access to birth control .""",,
14410,3800,"""Abstinence until marriage is still the best way .""","""Abstinence until you are old enough to handle sexual relationships responsibly should most certainly be preached along with information about and access to birth control . There are plenty of us who have no interest in the institution of marriage - your religion should not determine who amongst is a sexually active adult . Not to mention we have got to stop pushing the got ta get married have a partner to be a happy seccuesful person message - ESPECIALLY TO GIRLS - it will lead to sex , for heaven forbid they be SINGLE .""",DISAGREE,"""Abstinence until marriage is still the best way .""","""Abstinence until you are old enough to handle sexual relationships responsibly should most certainly be preached along with information about and access to birth control .""",,
14425,3825,"""Congratulations , Joe ! I 'm so happy for you . Sounds great . It 's this aspect of our lives that the conservatives wo n't see ... But anyway , more power to you , and I hope that you and your partner have many long and happy years together .""","""Thank You ! I think we will !""",AGREE,"""I hope that you and your partner have many long and happy years together""","""Thank You ! I think we will !""",,
14430,3826,"""3 ) Make sure the parts of your source that you do n't quote do n't contain info that harms your argument . Larry Flynt bases nearly all of this theory on the alleged event of Bush visiting the girl in the hospital after she had an abortion . If this ever did occur there is no evidence that Bush knew that she had an abortion . Flynt says so himself :""","""The claim is based on the woman telling people that the child was Bush 's , and her dating him at the time : P""",DISAGREE,"""Make sure the parts of your source that you do n't quote do n't contain info that harms your argument .""","""The claim is based on the woman telling people that the""",,
14453,3831,"""Yeah , except for the `` logic `` part . How can you not take the positions of men on the abortion issue seriously ? I take the positions of women very seriously with regards to , say , circumcision .""","""Like , I said , I ca n't take men 's position on abortion seriously b/c they can spout off all they want ; however their viewpoint must be affected somewhat by the fact that they will never actually have to make the decision themselves . As far as circumcision ... um ... who cares ? J/k . I really do n't know what to think about that . Never given it alot of thought , as I 've never had a penis , do n't plan on growing one , and therefore I ca n't have a valid point of view . Do whatever feels best to you . Get my drift ? Hey , you two , Clerisian and Steeeve , quit arguing semantics . Geesh !""",DISAGREE,"""How can you not take the positions of men on the abortion issue seriously ?""","""I ca n't take men 's position on abortion seriously b/c they can spout off all they want ; however their viewpoint must be affected somewhat by the fact that they will never actually have to make the decision themselves .""",,
14469,3832,"""Fourth , do you believe the fetus is living ? Why ?""","""We 've said that it is living , but that it was n't a life .""",DISAGREE,"""you believe the fetus is living ?""","""We 've said that it is living that it was n't a life .""",,
14477,3833,"""Now tell me , what is wrong with this logic ? If evolution is true , then you can decide anything for yourself . Nothing stops you .""","""And what does stop you ? You could decide that for yourself . But that would n't make the action just or moral . That action would still hurt people , and it would still be evil . So perhaps I should ask , if God were not threatening religious people with Hell , would they still be good people ? Or are all of the selfless and generous actions of religious people stemmed from the selfish desire to get into heaven ? If they are not stemmed from their own selfish desire to enter heaven , then they are they not rooted in that individual 's own desire to help others . This exists in some people . For those in whom it does not exist , we have the law . We create governments to do that which is in our best interest and that which is in our best interest is that which helps everyone . For that which harms someone else might soon be that which harms us . I have oversimplified what is a very complex understanding of morality , but the point is that the morality of an atheist does not begin with the desire to enter heaven , it begins with the desire to help others or create a society which will help everyone .""",DISAGREE,"""If evolution is true , then you can decide anything for yourself .""","""You could decide that for yourself . But that would n't make the action just or moral . That action would still hurt people , and it would still be evil .""",,
14481,3834,"""Unlike teachers , your workplace does n't rely on the vast majority of staff being present to function at all . I was available for work throughout the cold weather , but was told to stay at home , as colleagues travelling from further afield could n't get in .""","""I dont think I have heard a more pathtic excuse for a long time . All but a few of my colleagues could get into work during the very worst of the weather .. why ? because they didnt get paid otherwise . There needs only be a tiny amount of snow for UK teachers to stay away in droves ... what a joke ! Strangely enough when I went to school both the pupils and the teachers seem to manage to get to school in the snow .""",DISAGREE,"""I was available for work throughout the cold weather , but was told to stay at home , as colleagues travelling from further afield could n't get in .""","""I dont think I have heard a more pathtic excuse for a long time . All but a few of my colleagues could get into work during the very worst of the weather .. why ? because they didnt get paid otherwise .""",,
14490,3835,"""Depending on perspective , everything or nothing . Many on the liberal front often tell us that the police are there for the purpose of protecting us , that they 'll keep us safe , that we do n't need a gun if we just call 911 and let the police handle it , etc . Well a lot of good that advice is gon na do these South Carolina people , now that the police have been ordered not to pursue criminals who run from the scene of a crime . If they start hopping fences then the police ca n't pursue in their squad cars , and they ca n't get out to chase after them either . So ... even before , the courts have stated explicitly that the job of the police is not to protect anyone , and now we have mayors ordering the police to not apprehend fleeing criminals . This means that those townspeople are gon na need to rely on themselves . And if the gun control laws are liberal and excessively strict , they 're SOL . Innocent people are gon na get getting killed because of this new policy .""","""Poor guys they are so screwed . We get it all the time here in Australia , dont fight back just call the cops , who may be there in 35 minutes as the average response time ! ! Now the cops are not going to stop criminals from running away . This is very very disturbing news for every citizen of not just South Carolina but America .""",AGREE,"""call 911 police handle it , people criminals not to protect anyone , mayors ordering not apprehend killed new policy""","""Poor guys screwed , dont fight back call cops , Now not stop criminals disturbing news every citizen""",,
14501,3836,"""It would also make what appears to be immediate `` jumps `` in the fossil record -- which fits in nicely with what 's been reported . It 's also a natural , orderly process that plays out possible variations on a theme , making the organism not inherently stupid and clueless , but more like a creative artist .""","""So now you want to demonstrate that you are also ignorant of the fossil record ?""",DISAGREE,"""It would also make what appears to be immediate `` jumps `` in the fossil record -- which fits in nicely with what 's been reported .""","""So now you want to demonstrate that you are also ignorant of the fossil record ?""",,
14511,3839,"""beat a child black and blue , but never ever perpetuate the meanest abuse of them all , abandon him to homosexuality !""","""I think this post pretty much sums up the depths of your prejudice , and the thoroughness of your ignorance . A child should endure physical abuse before being allowed to be adopted by a loving gay couple ? Being abused physically is preferential to being adopted by a loving gay couple ? I always have to chuckle when people are so eager to reveal their prejudices in such a way that demonstrates they are completely non-credible as any type of character witness ...""",DISAGREE,"""beat a child black and blue , but never ever perpetuate the meanest abuse of them all , abandon him to homosexuality !""","""I think this post pretty much sums up the depths of your prejudice , and the thoroughness of your ignorance .""",,
14531,3867,"""I think this is rather simple . There will be a decrease in volume or quantity of healthcare services . This will not include time of doctors who mostly tell their spport staff to do yet another test . So it will mostly include support staff , administrative staff , equipment manufacturers . They will not necessarily get paid less , there will just be fewer of them . Per person that is .""","""Well to get healthcare from $ 6000 per person to $ 3,400 per person you 'd have to pay them less or fire them . So do I understand you correctly that we will either cut pay or fire doctors and nurses ? EDIT : that seems dramatic ... not `` fire `` them but they will basically go into another profession since they are no longer needed .""",DISAGREE,"""will to support will not necessarily get paid less , there will just be fewer of them""","""they will go into another profession since they are no longer needed""",,
14562,3880,"""Evolution has no goals , it is merely a beautiful process , like math . Do n't deify it . And who cares what we look like ?""","""Are n't you deifying it when you say : `` yep , that 's how He did it . Makes perfect sense . Dang , He 's smart. `` ? And if you care about Genesis at all then you 'd care about in whose image man is made .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution has no goals , it is merely a beautiful process , like math .""","""Are n't you deifying it when you say : `` yep , that 's how He did it .""",,
14578,3883,"""Well I think that the geology of the planet would influence everything . From religions to morals and scientific progression . Because long ago on our planet Europe not only thought the world was flat and they could fall over at the edge into an abyss but Europe generally did n't have knowledge of the Asian cultures until the silk road was active . If the asian and european cultures were not so greatly distanced from each other history would have been greatly changed to the extent that compared to our world would be pretty loopy""","""The idea here is to demonstrate that the odds of them realizing the same Genesis is impossible . That is unless God came back again , spoke his word into a book through the scribblings of random religious scholars . If you accept that this is inevitable , you are delusional . The most likely thing would be for humans to come up with an entirely different religious doctrine . I would be willing to bet that it would pass through polytheism into monotheism as more information became available and eventually we would end up right where we are now . The problem with this scenario is that evolution would probably never be confirmed since our biological history would not be apparent . We would come up with theories that God made us and perhaps even some screwballs would say we were all part of an experiment and were placed on the planet by our ancestors a couple hundred thousand years prior .""",DISAGREE,"""Well I think that the geology of the planet would influence everything .""","""The idea here is to demonstrate that the odds of them realizing the same Genesis is impossible .""",,
14595,3893,"""Hmmm , a few problems arise with this theory , when did he create the dinosaurs , and when did he kill them off , when did he create all the other planets , when did he create all the other stars and comets ? Ineresting he created the earth before the sun , how did he get light , let me guess , he had a torch .""","""Actually when you read every thing you have to rationalize ( lie ) what God actually did , for God was done with everything then started again . THe stories do n't parallel each other they intersect .""",DISAGREE,"""create the dinosaurs the other planets stars and comets earth before the sun had a torch .""","""have to rationalize ( lie ) everything then started again do n't parallel each other they intersect .""",,
14606,3894,"""Biology should n't simply deal with the facts about different animals , natural selection , evolution , etc . but should also deal with how information is gathered , and different ways of analyzing it as well as different hypothesies rather than what is thought at the time to be the facts .""","""If science deals with how information is gathered , different ways of analyzing , and different hypothesis , then it involves worldviews . The base for the worldview of a sizable part of the population should not be excluded . Maybe in Saddam Hussien 's Iraq , maybe in communist Russia , but not in the United States .""",DISAGREE,"""Biology should n't simply deal with the facts about different animals , natural selection , evolution , etc .""","""Maybe in Saddam Hussien 's Iraq , maybe in communist Russia , but not in the United States .""",,
14618,3895,"""To me , inbreeding is seems to foreshadow where we are headed in society .""","""Evidence ? I did n't think so .""",DISAGREE,"""inbreeding is seems to foreshadow where we are headed in society .""","""I did n't think so .""",,
14624,3896,"""Let 's see some bullet items to debate , not the sea-of-montalban's-ideas""","""And of course , the sea of Montalban 's assertions as science , the sea of Montalban 's out of context quotes , or the sea of Montalban 's misrepresentations of what others have said . It seems that Montalban knows the `` TROOTH `` and wo n't be discouraged with facts . Sadly , Montalban knows what he believes and reality seems to be irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's see some bullet items to debate , not the sea-of-montalban's-ideas""","""And of course , the sea of Montalban 's assertions as science""",,
14659,3899,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ? Meaning for instance ... if after amniocentesis it is discovered that the child has down syndrome or if it is discovered the child will be born with no legs the previously hoping and willing parents decide to abort for this reason . Do pro abortion people support this ?""","""Since amniocentesis is done before a fetus has legal personhood aborting such a pregnancy is not mercy killing in any way . One can not show mercy to what constitutes mere tissue . One can show mercy to a human person . Suppose that the fetus in question has for example will have no functioning brain upon birth , then will aborting it constitute in any way the killing of a person . In sever anencephaly there is nothing there to be a person !""",DISAGREE,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ?""","""then will aborting it constitute in any way the killing of a person . In sever anencephaly there is nothing there to be a person !""",,
14652,3899,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ? Meaning for instance ... if after amniocentesis it is discovered that the child has down syndrome or if it is discovered the child will be born with no legs the previously hoping and willing parents decide to abort for this reason . Do pro abortion people support this ?""","""Since amniocentesis is done before a fetus has legal personhood aborting such a pregnancy is not mercy killing in any way . One can not show mercy to what constitutes mere tissue . One can show mercy to a human person . Suppose that the fetus in question has for example will have no functioning brain upon birth , then will aborting it constitute in any way the killing of a person . In sever anencephaly there is nothing there to be a person !""",DISAGREE,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ?""","""In sever anencephaly there is nothing there to be a person !""",,
14666,3901,"""Responsibility would be easy - whoever was adopting it , its not hard I 've been told to find adoptive parents for babies and if you have up to 9 months to do so then its even easier . However I think the cost of the units means they would still only be used where abortion was not possible - say the fetus had developed past the allowed abortable age ( so for me that means a functioning brain ) . Its not going to be possible to transfer every potential abortion to the womb unit , at least not or a very long time .""","""Cost would certainly be an issue . If the adoptive parents were willing to take on that cost , that would be best . I wonder , though , how much demand there really is out there for adopted babies . As I understand the situation , currently there are far more parents looking to adopt than there are new babies up for adoption . However , if such an artificial womb would exist , then that may not be the case any longer . Would the mother then have to be responsible ? Not that easy a case to ponder since that would be a case of performing abortion not purely out of a sense of a woman 's right over her own body ( since transfer would be an option ) but out of purely financial , practical reasons .""",AGREE,"""However I think the cost of the units means they would still only be used where abortion was not possible""","""As I understand the situation , currently there are far more parents looking to adopt than there are new babies up for adoption""",,
14685,3904,"""I am a little unclear about Harbingers statements . Are you saying it is ok for the mother to murder something that is inside of her ?""","""Well Steve `` murder `` is a legal term that does not apply in abortion . But for the sake of keeping this simple - yes , and not only that , it 's legal .""",AGREE,"""Are you saying it is ok for the mother to murder something that is inside of her ?""","""But for the sake of keeping this simple""",,
14708,3908,"""The University of Tennessee ’ s newly announced policy banning all gun ownership by student-athletes is an extreme overreaction to the criminal acts of a few . UT ’ s athletic director , Mike Hamilton , said that under the new policy , the university will automatically dismiss any student-athlete found in possession of a gun — even those with permits and even those living off-campus . This over-reaching policy prevents law-abiding UT student-athletes from hunting and engaging in recreational and competitive shooting . More importantly , it also prohibits them from owning a firearm for self-defense , a right guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution . Let ’ s be very clear — anyone , student-athlete or otherwise , who commits a serious crime ought to be punished . But the law-abiding should not , period . Sports teach everyone that actions have consequences . Sloppy work in practice leads teams to defeat . Criminal acts lead to punishment . A quality team — on and off the court or field — is what Vol fans want . That is not achieved by depriving students — athletes or not — of their civil rights .""","""There 's absolutely no way in hell this could be legal in any sense . That California school got * * * * * slapped for expelling a student who had a gun off campus , beyond the jurisdictional reach of the school . So how can this school believe they can get away with such an insane policy ?""",AGREE,"""The University of newly announced policy banning all gun ownership by student-athletes over-reaching policy anyone , student-athlete or otherwise , who commits a serious crime ought to be punished . But the law-abiding should not , period .""","""There 's absolutely no way in hell this could be legal in any sense . California school * * * * * slapped for expelling a student who had a gun off campus , beyond the jurisdictional reach of the school insane policy""",,
14759,3916,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""In the split second something happens , we must protect ourselves .""",AGREE,"""who has the responsibility to protect you , and your property ?""","""we must protect ourselves .""",,
14777,3918,"""It is an animal , with a few parts from column A , a few from column B .""","""And therefore a transitional by definition .""",AGREE,"""It is an animal , with a few parts from column A , a few from column B""","""therefore a transitional by definition""",,
14784,3919,"""So we all deserve to be tortured for ever for beleiving in evolution ?""","""tortured ? you shut ur mouth .. , ... if ur not achristian then yes , i will pray for you ....""",DISAGREE,"""all deserve to be tortured for ever for beleiving in evolution ?""","""tortured ?""",,
14795,3920,"""I just say we make a law against abortion , and stop the genocide against the unborn . Why end a human life on the basis size , development , and environment ?""","""And I just say that it would be unjust and unfair of you to force metaphysical belief systems of your own which constitute religious belief upon your follows who may believe otherwise than you . Get pregnant and treat your fetus as a full person if you wish , nobody will force you to abort it . Let others follow their own beliefs differing or the same . Otherwise you attempt to obtain justice by doing injustice.Mo""",DISAGREE,"""law against abortion genocide against the unborn human life""","""metaphysical belief systems constitute religious belief justice by doing""",,
14788,3920,"""I just say we make a law against abortion , and stop the genocide against the unborn . Why end a human life on the basis size , development , and environment ?""","""And I just say that it would be unjust and unfair of you to force metaphysical belief systems of your own which constitute religious belief upon your follows who may believe otherwise than you . Get pregnant and treat your fetus as a full person if you wish , nobody will force you to abort it . Let others follow their own beliefs differing or the same . Otherwise you attempt to obtain justice by doing injustice.Mo""",DISAGREE,"""I just say we make a law against abortion , and stop the genocide against the unborn . Why end a human life on the basis size , development , and environment ?""","""And I just say that it would be unjust and unfair of you to force metaphysical belief systems of your own which constitute religious belief upon your follows who may believe otherwise than you .""",,
14818,3926,"""http : //www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155326,00.html She is the guardian of the state ..... this is going over the line now .""","""Give me three good reasons why a thirteen year old girl from Plam Beach , that are practial not religous please , should not have an abortion and I will promise not to make fun of you . Much . Judges do this everyday . This case just made the news .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155326,00.html She is the guardian of the state""","""Give me three good reasons why a thirteen year old girl from Plam Beach , that are practial not religous please ,""",,
14822,3927,"""You are so right-on in what you say ! In a Sunday school at a church I formerly attended , an elder of the church remarked that his `` faith was strengthened `` by the `` evidence `` afforded by recent archaeological discoveries in the middle east . In a tone I now rather regret , I blurted out two things ... ... How weak was your faith before ? and ... If the `` evidence `` had gone 'the other way , ' would your faith then have been weakened ? His answer for the second question was a simple 'no , ' which suggests to me that the sense of the term 'evidence ' he was employing was not the same sense you 'd expect a scientist to use . His response to the first was problematic , and interesting . '' My faith , `` he said , has always been -- then he used the most interesting word -- `` complete. `` But he had taken sufficient offence already , it seemed , that I pressed no further . I wish sometimes that I 'd asked : If your faith was `` always complete , `` did the archaeological evidence make it `` more complete `` ? And , if so , does your sense of 'complete ' match that word 's usual application ? I do not quite grasp the notion of there being `` scientific evidence `` for a proposition within the realm of faith . I do not mean to suggest that my claim that scientific and religious propositions reside in different discourses disposes of all worry or complaint . Activity in one realm may be felt in the other . But , re : evolution , I think this ... Given convincing evidence that , say , the earth is billions of years old , not thousands -- a mound of evidence more than high enough for my needs -- my worry is not that the 'Biblical account ' of creation is wrong , erroneous , falsified ... but rather is the quite different worry of wondering what , now , that account 's meaning is , what it affirms . Scientific discovery , evidence , and discourse thus do n't `` disprove the Bible. `` Rather , they serve to displace interpretations of biblical text , and give us cause -- I call it : opportunity -- to find new , richer meaning in scripture . I 'm often embarrassed by the smallness and brittleness of certain Christians ' interpretations . Emphasizing the 'literal , ' as some do -- a very problematic term in itself -- some Christians see in , for example , the Genesis `` tree of the knowledge of good and evil `` nothing more than a tree . A biological tree . Pear tree . Peach tree . Apple tree . Tree of the knowledge of good and evil . Albeit a special species , nonetheless a species . And , for them , there you go -- Eve chowed down on the fruit of a proscribed species , and that 's your story . Lost , in the insistence upon and closing of that interpretation , is the richness of metaphor the story offers . Metaphor , again and again , is variously deliberately denigrated or unconsciously eclipsed , in the readings of certain Christians . Science is not the only victim of such cheesily 'literal ' interpretation . Christian faith -- at least , the possibility of a rich faith robustly aware of its own weight in metaphor , parable , legend and myth , and the transformative power that arises from those aspects of scripture -- is equally victim . I feel more sadness about such a limited believer 's faith than I do about that person 's science . Master_Shake , for your poignantly apt remark -- `` what they have is n't faith at all `` -- thanks . Bless you ! Brad""","""You can have reasoned faith , but it need not rely on 'empirical ' evidence . There are very many forms of evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""weak was your faith before ?""","""You can have reasoned faith , but it need not rely on 'empirical ' evidence .""",,
14825,3928,"""Come to that ... given that all humans start out as a single cell , that 's definitely false .""","""No , back to school ... turn in what educational credntials you feel you have , and just stay at the coffeehouses ... at least you have a .005 % of hearing someone ineject some truth in one of those sidewalk tete a ' tete 's you nutters are so fond of ... but here you are dead wrong . Have you ever heard of an egg ? ever heard of a sperm ? An egg is still considered a multiple cell organism , and a sperm as well . You 're gon na have a hard time pulling that one off .""",DISAGREE,"""given that all humans start out as a single cell , that 's definitely false .""","""Have you ever heard of an egg ? ever heard of a sperm ? An egg is still considered a multiple cell organism , and a sperm as well .""",,
14831,3929,"""is it religion ,""","""Yes , it is . ( * see below )""",AGREE,"""is it religion""","""Yes , it is .""",,
14858,3933,"""Life begins at conception -- -- -Brainwaves at three weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the facts ...""","""Care to , uh , back up your facts ?""",DISAGREE,"""Life begins at conception""","""back up your facts ?""",,
14856,3933,"""Life begins at conception -- -- -Brainwaves at three weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the facts ...""","""Care to , uh , back up your facts ?""",DISAGREE,"""Life begins at conception -- --""","""back up your facts ?""",,
14866,3934,"""Abortion is a right constructed in the chambers of the minds of seven judges .""","""But not just any seven judges , seven judges who 's job is to define the constitution .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion is a right constructed in the chambers of the minds of seven judges .""","""seven judges who 's job is to define the constitution .""",,
14890,3946,"""Whether it is a person simply depends upon what you define as personhood . What rights one wishes to confer on that unborn that are independent of the mother who is carrying it is what this argument is all about .""","""And this is what it devolves down into .""",AGREE,"""Whether it is a person simply depends upon what you define as personhood .""","""And this is what it devolves down into .""",,
14909,3950,"""So my question is this : ...""","""So my question is this : Why does n't a chihuahua birthe a Siberian husky in the Antarctic , or even in Siberia ? Oh , my other question is this : Why do animals die young instead of adapt ?""",DISAGREE,"""my question is this :""","""Why does n't a chihuahua birthe a Siberian husky in the Antarctic ,""",,
14923,3954,"""This is what has caused such events as the Columbine Highschool shootings .""","""And religion is what caused the Crusades and most other wars in the past , and many wars , and bloody disputes , to this very day . Many , many , many , many , many more people have died in the name of religion than in anything that could be called `` in the name of atheism `` .""",DISAGREE,"""This is what has caused such events as""","""And religion is what caused the Crusades and most other wars in the past""",,
14930,3956,"""Your `` consequence `` is a strawman .""","""No ... it is n't . The consequences of something do not become strawmen ... Here is an article that talks about the consequences ( so called strawmen ) of universal healthcare http : //www.heartland.org/policybot/r ... el_for_US.html""",DISAGREE,"""Your `` consequence `` is a strawman .""","""No ... it is n't . The consequences of something do not become strawmen ... Here is an article that talks about the consequences ( so called strawmen ) of universal healthcare http : //www.heartland.org/policybot/r ... el_for_US.html""",,
14965,3968,"""This discussion is kind of unrelated to abortion because a link between abortion being wrong and someone not helping another in need does n't exist . If you believe thief is wrong you do n't have to become a police officer to show this . To answer your question ... who knows , identifying the true problem is the start .""","""No one mentioned helping or not helping people here , or even dealing with the consquences of pregnancy at all . Its more ; 'If abortion were banned , what measures or research would you suggest to reduce the pressure for people to have illegal ones or unwanted pregnancies ' .""",DISAGREE,"""This discussion is kind of unrelated to abortion because a link between abortion being wrong and someone not helping another in need does n't exist .""","""No one mentioned helping or not helping people here ,""",,
14985,3972,"""So what 's your alternative theory , peddler ? You do have one , right ?""","""First of all why would you want to know if I have an alternative theory to one that is known to be false ? Are you found of false theories ? A true theory would be a replacement not an alternative . The Wrong Answer Will Always Be The Wrong Answer ! If evolution was true there would be overwhelming , uncontestable evidence , there is no uncontestable evidence . Little that is any more than pure imagination . Theories start out as hypothesis and are then subject to experimentation and observation . When they fail they are discarded . For instance spontaneous generation was disproved by Pasteur and discarded as a theory . Evolution which is not a theory , although it is called one , has been falsified nine ways to Sunday . Two of Darwin 's own falsifications have come to pass and ignored . The Galopagos Finches have proven to interbreed which destoys a great deal of the so called basis of his theory . '' Extinct `` animals and plants are found alive and ignored as evidence against evolution . Theories are made to be challenged but evidence against evolution is suppressed . Evolutionist had to revive spontaneous generation although it is scientifically impossible because without it atheism is impossible . The atheist must have a story no matter how bizzare to justify his faith . Science suffers because of this . My theory is that this planet is exactly what Einstein said it was , a place designed by a Supreme Being to be inhabited by people . The evidence is creation itself . If there is a creation there must be a Creator . Nothing has ever been observed to self assemble and there is no known process that could accomplish that . Animals and plants just like the ones alive today have always existed . Many have gone extinct but death is not evidence of evolution . Human beings are incapable of creating a grain of sand from nothing . There are grains of sand so there is an intelligence greator than ours that did . The perfect balance seen in the anthropic principle tells of a Creator . The unbelievable complexity of the human body makes evolution impossible . DNA can not exist without proteins . Proteins are coded by the information in the DNA molecule . They had to come into being simultaneously . Pre-biotic natural selection is impossible , there is no process to affect the evolution of DNA outside of a living organism . To look at a building is to have absolute empirical proof there was a builder . To look at creation and say there was no Creator is to enter an intellectually free zone .""",DISAGREE,"""what 's your alternative theory , peddler ?""","""First of all why would you want to know if I have an alternative theory to one that is known to be false ? ``""",,
14999,3974,"""You all are missing the point that the morning after pill is abortion ( or rather could be ) . It can still kill a human life on purpose .""","""Oh come on Steeeeve , around 50 % of fertilized embroyo 's will fail to implant anyway , so nature 'has killed/'is killing ' half of all the people who have ever existed anyway . You can not tell me that none of those are not just fluke losses of otherwise perfectly healthly embryos . Also , prevention of implantation is only one of several mechanisms by which emergency contraception works- it also prevents ovulation , disrupts passage of a released egg and inhibits fertilzation occuring in the first place .""",DISAGREE,"""the point that the morning after pill is abortion can still kill a human life on purpose .""","""fertilized embroyo 's will fail to implant anyway You can not tell me that none of those are not just fluke losses emergency contraception""",,
15007,3975,"""Like I have said before and will repeat one more time ......... I think in the near future you will see almost every state with maybe the exception of Mass . have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage ............... Its sad that it has to come to that but the militant gays and liberals and the radical judges give the states no choice .........""","""I know ! How dare they just not sit back and accept the discrimination they so rightly deserve . It 's just incredible the amount physical and emotional damage you would undergo if these people are given the same kind of respect you are . We ca n't have that ! This may be a a government for the people , and I am sorry but you are only part of the people and to be granted the respect of people if you screw and love the people that the majority say you have to screw and love . God bless er Buddha bless er Mohammed bless ... er Rhiannon bless America !""",DISAGREE,"""said before and will repeat one more time the militant gays and liberals and the radical judges""","""people are given the same kind of respect you are . people and to be granted the respect of people screw and love""",,
15003,3975,"""Like I have said before and will repeat one more time ......... I think in the near future you will see almost every state with maybe the exception of Mass . have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage ............... Its sad that it has to come to that but the militant gays and liberals and the radical judges give the states no choice .........""","""I know ! How dare they just not sit back and accept the discrimination they so rightly deserve . It 's just incredible the amount physical and emotional damage you would undergo if these people are given the same kind of respect you are . We ca n't have that ! This may be a a government for the people , and I am sorry but you are only part of the people and to be granted the respect of people if you screw and love the people that the majority say you have to screw and love . God bless er Buddha bless er Mohammed bless ... er Rhiannon bless America !""",DISAGREE,"""almost every state have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage the militant gays and liberals and the radical judges give the states no choice""","""How dare they just not sit back and accept the discrimination they so rightly deserve .""",,
15004,3975,"""Like I have said before and will repeat one more time ......... I think in the near future you will see almost every state with maybe the exception of Mass . have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage ............... Its sad that it has to come to that but the militant gays and liberals and the radical judges give the states no choice .........""","""I know ! How dare they just not sit back and accept the discrimination they so rightly deserve . It 's just incredible the amount physical and emotional damage you would undergo if these people are given the same kind of respect you are . We ca n't have that ! This may be a a government for the people , and I am sorry but you are only part of the people and to be granted the respect of people if you screw and love the people that the majority say you have to screw and love . God bless er Buddha bless er Mohammed bless ... er Rhiannon bless America !""",DISAGREE,"""I think in the near future you will see almost every state with maybe the exception of Mass .""","""How dare they just not sit back and accept the discrimination they so rightly deserve .""",,
15011,3976,"""May I also suggest to firearms owners , to carefully edit from their rhetoric , any mention of them personally owning firearms . Who knows when these forums are being monitored ?""","""What difference would that make ? The BATFE ( E for explosives , their power grows ) already knows you own a firearm if you 've ever had a NICS check . They 're supposed to destroy the records , but who knows what they do ? Might as well let it be known you have some personal experiance in this area . Gives you better grounds for debate than 'Joe Foreigner ' who has never owned or possibly even seen a real firearm in person . Being part of the crowd and looking in from the outside make big differences when it comes to understanding .""",DISAGREE,"""May I also suggest to firearms owners , to carefully edit from their rhetoric , any mention of them personally owning firearms . Who knows when these forums are being monitored ?""","""They 're supposed to destroy the records , but who knows what they do ? Might as well let it be known you have some personal experiance in this area .""",,
15033,3987,"""So much safer .""","""So it 's not safe to go to school because your teacher might kill you if you 're late at turning in your homework ? Incidents such as the shooter professor are incredibly rare ; you 'll find very few school teachers that were convicted of murder during a previous date , and released from prison due to a favor from a politician . But incidents like the one in the UK , where the aggressor is in less trouble than their intended victim , are far more common and close to the norm for the country . If you 're attacked , you 're guilty if you fight back and cause either harm or fear to the person attacking you . Even if they assault you with a deadly weapon , you 're the guilty party if you manage to cause them any sort of harm .""",DISAGREE,"""So much safer .""","""not safe to go to school because your teacher might kill you""",,
15034,3987,"""So much safer .""","""So it 's not safe to go to school because your teacher might kill you if you 're late at turning in your homework ? Incidents such as the shooter professor are incredibly rare ; you 'll find very few school teachers that were convicted of murder during a previous date , and released from prison due to a favor from a politician . But incidents like the one in the UK , where the aggressor is in less trouble than their intended victim , are far more common and close to the norm for the country . If you 're attacked , you 're guilty if you fight back and cause either harm or fear to the person attacking you . Even if they assault you with a deadly weapon , you 're the guilty party if you manage to cause them any sort of harm .""",DISAGREE,"""So much safer .""","""So it 's not safe to go to school because your teacher might kill you if you 're late at turning in your homework ? Incidents such as the shooter professor are incredibly rare ; you 'll find very few school teachers that were convicted of murder during a previous date , and released from prison due to a favor from a politician .""",,
15047,3989,"""Oh silly MarieAntoinette or whatever name you are using these days . You got us though ... every pro-life person is a right-wing white male who hates blacks people and wants to enslave the female sex . Dang , we ca n't get anything past you !""","""And do n't forget the part that we 're all hot for her , too .""",AGREE,"""we ca n't get anything past you !""","""do n't forget the part that we 're all hot for her , too .""",,
15048,3989,"""Oh silly MarieAntoinette or whatever name you are using these days . You got us though ... every pro-life person is a right-wing white male who hates blacks people and wants to enslave the female sex . Dang , we ca n't get anything past you !""","""And do n't forget the part that we 're all hot for her , too .""",AGREE,"""You got us , we ca n't get anything past you !""","""do n't forget the part that we 're all hot for her""",,
15049,3990,"""I do n't think anyone here that I know of has argued that monogamy does not help against STDs .""","""OH get off it ! ! ! ! How many times have we seen the argument from your side that gay marriage would increase the incidence of AIDS ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't think anyone here that I know of has argued that monogamy does not help against STDs .""","""How many times have we seen the argument from your side that gay marriage would increase the incidence of AIDS ?""",,
15066,3999,"""I do n't debate long , rambling philosophical nonsense .""","""But you debate with it ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't debate long""","""But you debate with it ?""",,
15069,4000,"""All you have shown is that today we could n't this . You forget that Noah got the design from God .""","""So your claim is that the laws of physics have changed ? You see , it is not a matter of design . It is a matter of the physical limits of wood . Wood is flexable , and the longer the piece of wood , the more bend there is in it . Possibly you have seen a roof with wood supports that spans a large area . To do it requires huge trusses unless you add column supports . And I 'll bet there are n't any spans of over 300 ft. where only a wood truss is used . For a ship/barge the problem becomes worse . If you make the keel thick in an effort to reduce the hogging and snaking , you reduct the room available inside . Even at that , it would be impossible to eliminate all of the flexing and that flexing would spring the planks of the hull . There is no calking that has been devised that can fill an ever changing gap between planks . And , of course , recourse to a miracle is the standard creationist answer when faced with evidence that their mythology is n't historic . '' POOF ! Goddidit ! `` And so , what is the point of the whole exercise in the first place ? Why did n't God just POOF the ark into existance or just POOF anyone he did n't like out of existance ? He wanted to teach the only just man in the world a lesson ? Sure worked . First thing Noah did was to get drunk .""",DISAGREE,"""All you have shown is that today we could n't this . You forget that Noah got the design from God""","""So your claim is that the laws of physics have changed ? It is a matter of the physical limits of wood""",,
15088,4003,"""What else would you expect from the people who created a god in their own image ?""","""Another wild-butt theory from the radical left . Liberals do love their Michael Moore theories . So prove it .""",DISAGREE,"""What else would you expect from the people who created a god in their own image ?""","""Another wild-butt theory from the radical left .""",,
15085,4003,"""What else would you expect from the people who created a god in their own image ?""","""Another wild-butt theory from the radical left . Liberals do love their Michael Moore theories . So prove it .""",DISAGREE,"""What else would you expect from the people who created a god in their own image ?""","""Another wild-butt theory from the radical left . Liberals do love their Michael Moore theories . So prove it .""",,
15100,4006,"""Pregnancy is ALWAYS physically harmful . You try carrying a load of extra weight about and see what that does to your heart . It is also always life threatening - women still die from it and you never know how childbirth is going to go .""","""jessica , all these problems you 've listed , the human body takes care of automatically and remarkably well . the fact still remains that only less than 5 % of all abortions occur because the risk is great enough to be deemed life-threatening to either tha mother or the child . and that percentage is diminishing as well . the overwhelming majority of abortions occur simply because the woman decides she does not wnat to be a mother .""",DISAGREE,"""Pregnancy is ALWAYS physically harmful . You try carrying a load of extra weight about and see what that does to your""","""all these problems you 've listed , the human body takes care of automatically and remarkably""",,
15121,4012,"""So where did we come from ?""","""You have n't defined that yet . Therefore I can not answer .""",DISAGREE,"""So where did we come from ?""","""You have n't defined that yet . Therefore I can not answer .""",,
15122,4012,"""So where did we come from ?""","""You have n't defined that yet . Therefore I can not answer .""",DISAGREE,"""So where did we come from ?""","""You have n't defined that yet . Therefore I can not answer .""",,
15160,4016,"""I understand how elvolution works and all but how can they teach it like a fact in schools when its really just the `` Theory `` of `` evolution ? its just like electritity noone can see it but they teach it in all the schools just cause some scientist believes in it . i think thats just plane dumb , if you ask me , more peeple believe in Jesus and a few have even seen him so right there its more believable then evolution which was invented a couple hundred years ago by some elitist sientist . so why not teach about jessus in the schools since we know more about him , and have actual facts that were written down by people who knew him eg . '' The Bible ! `` plus correct me if im wrong but i think theirs some stuff in there about how man 's kind came to exsist .""","""JUST a theory ? Gravity is a theory . You do n't think electricity exists ? Wow . The person before answered your questions clear enough , I just wanted to point that out .""",DISAGREE,"""Theory `` `` evolution ? electritity plane dumb believable '' The Bible ! ``""","""JUST theory ? electricity exists ?""",,
15169,4017,"""I disagree as all drugs being legalized would surely be a danger to society . As for weed , I think it should only be legalized if every other country ( or most ) does it . Why ? Well , have you ever been to amsterdam ? It sucks . I would hate to be like that .""","""I 've never been to Amsterdam . A friend of mine went and he liked it . I 'd like to go someday . Hell , I 'd just like to get my XXX anywhere , really .""",DISAGREE,"""Well , have you ever been to amsterdam ?""","""I 've never been to Amsterdam""",,
15180,4019,"""It really piques me when someone attempts to assume what my opinion is without asking me . You know nothing about me or my views .""","""That 's not true . You asked standard creationist questions with a standard creationist attitude . Your views are pretty clear from the smartass way you asked and your final comment .""",DISAGREE,"""piques me without asking me my views""","""creationist attitude views are pretty clear smartass way""",,
15189,4020,"""So you agree that it 's not necessary to have high capacity magazines because gun owners can reload quickly when defending themselves against a criminals . Good we can agree on at least one thing .""","""This is n't my position . I 'm arguing that your attempts to demonize magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds is foolish . Furthermore , if no honest citizen needs a 15 round magazine , then no police officer needs them either . If we can reload them quickly enough for it to not matter , then the police can do it too .""",DISAGREE,"""high capacity magazines because gun owners can reload quickly when defending themselves against a criminals .""","""10 rounds is foolish . Furthermore , if no honest citizen needs a 15 round magazine""",,
15194,4020,"""So you agree that it 's not necessary to have high capacity magazines because gun owners can reload quickly when defending themselves against a criminals . Good we can agree on at least one thing .""","""This is n't my position . I 'm arguing that your attempts to demonize magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds is foolish . Furthermore , if no honest citizen needs a 15 round magazine , then no police officer needs them either . If we can reload them quickly enough for it to not matter , then the police can do it too .""",DISAGREE,"""it 's not necessary to have high capacity magazines because gun owners can reload quickly""","""This is n't my position .""",,
15214,4022,"""youre more concerned about those 22 to 30 thousand gun laws but Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand lives taken by gun violence each year""","""First of all , gun violence is no joke , but your figures are way too high if you are talking about criminal gun violence . Which is the subject of this group of threads . But you guys push for stuff that will have little to no impact on gun violence . Stuff like an Assault Weapons ban . So called Assault Weapons even if were dis-invented would have less impact than lets say murders committed by beating people to death with hands , and feet . Which by the way , also shows the futility of banning guns in the first place . Brady , I have shown you who commits murder . You are NEVER going to stop all of that by punishing those who do n't take drugs , or sell them , or commit crimes . If you were actually serious about doing what you say you want to do , you would be designing and pushing for resolutions to deal with the actual evidence . Let me also show you what the FBI says are the pertinent factors . Crime factors from the FBI website""",DISAGREE,"""22 to 30 thousand gun laws but Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand""","""You are NEVER going to stop all of that by punishing those who do n't take drugs , or sell them""",,
15209,4022,"""youre more concerned about those 22 to 30 thousand gun laws but Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand lives taken by gun violence each year""","""First of all , gun violence is no joke , but your figures are way too high if you are talking about criminal gun violence . Which is the subject of this group of threads . But you guys push for stuff that will have little to no impact on gun violence . Stuff like an Assault Weapons ban . So called Assault Weapons even if were dis-invented would have less impact than lets say murders committed by beating people to death with hands , and feet . Which by the way , also shows the futility of banning guns in the first place . Brady , I have shown you who commits murder . You are NEVER going to stop all of that by punishing those who do n't take drugs , or sell them , or commit crimes . If you were actually serious about doing what you say you want to do , you would be designing and pushing for resolutions to deal with the actual evidence . Let me also show you what the FBI says are the pertinent factors . Crime factors from the FBI website""",DISAGREE,"""concerned 22 to 30 thousand gun laws gun violence""","""criminal gun violence Assault Weapons ban murders committed by beating people to death actual evidence""",,
15231,4024,"""Removal of body parts by whatever means does not change the dna of the rest of the body . The sperm cells and eggs are not affected by the loss of unrelated body parts .""","""yes , but adam wasnt created with hereditary information or from sperm and egg cells . adam was the prototype . any subsequent humans should be born following the fashion in which adam was made . otherwise adam could have been shaped like a goat and still bear human children , because god could have formed him into whatever shape or lack of shape he wanted , yet put the genetic information in him to produce human offspring . why should adam 's children look like adam ? wouldnt adam 's children be born the way adam was created , or not ?""",DISAGREE,"""affected unrelated body parts .""","""subsequent humans genetic information human offspring . look like adam ? was created""",,
15236,4025,"""I might start another thread , and change the subject to : I 'm Not Dumb Enough to Be an Agnostic ! Oh well , at least it represents a more illectually honest position than Atheism !""","""I 've tried to be `` intellectually honest `` with you as well as patient with your `` fuzzy `` thinking and propensity to paste and interpret .""",DISAGREE,"""I might start another thread , and change the subject to : I 'm Not Dumb Enough to Be an Agnostic ! Oh well , at least it represents a more illectually honest position than Atheism !""","""I 've tried to be `` intellectually honest `` with you as well as patient with your `` fuzzy `` thinking and propensity to paste and interpret .""",,
15234,4025,"""I might start another thread , and change the subject to : I 'm Not Dumb Enough to Be an Agnostic ! Oh well , at least it represents a more illectually honest position than Atheism !""","""I 've tried to be `` intellectually honest `` with you as well as patient with your `` fuzzy `` thinking and propensity to paste and interpret .""",DISAGREE,"""change the subject to : I 'm Not Dumb Enough to Be an Agnostic !""","""intellectually honest `` `` thinking and propensity to paste and interpret .""",,
15252,4034,"""`` After all , it 's the job of the gun lobby and gunmakers to get as many guns into the hands of as many people as possible . It 's everyone else 's job to clean up after their mess. `` Too true !""","""Just like it 's the job of the gun control lobby to try and pass an overwhelming , unreasonable level of fear of an inanimate object ?""",DISAGREE,"""it 's the job of the gun lobby and gunmakers to get as many guns into the hands of as many people as possible .""","""Just like it 's the job of the gun control lobby to try and pass an overwhelming , unreasonable level of fear of an inanimate object ?""",,
15274,4038,"""The real `` payoffs come from 2 sources -- the understanding of inheritance that grew out of Mendel 's inheritance theory , and the concept of dynamic systemic 'adaptation ' , as opposed to passive particulate 'selection ' , in evoltion .""","""What in the name of heaven is `` passive particulate selection `` is that found in quantitative genetics in some obscure corner - I challenge you to produce a reference to the term in the open literature . And Mendel 's theory was itself ( if anything is ) particulate in nature and it was NOT derived from Darwin at all . It preceded Darwin and later of course DID serve as a plug in addition to supplant Darwins own inadequate theory of inheritance . And of course Mendel is long ago supplanted by much more detailed and modern genetic knowledge . As to `` dynamic sytemic adaptation `` I also suggest you need to document where that term originates from other than yourself . Just what does that mean which is NOT covered by the vary-select-inherit process ? Please tell us oh mighty lagomorph how antibiotic resistance arises by `` dynamic systemic adaptation `` instead of plain old VSI processes and how you distinguish the two . [ QUOTEHave to go now . [ /quote ] Good because my tolerance for people who pontificate in pseudoscientific terms while pretending to themselves that they know what they are talking about is wearing very very thin .""",DISAGREE,"""Mendel 's inheritance theory , and the concept of dynamic systemic 'adaptation '""","""I challenge you to produce a reference to the term in the open literature .""",,
15325,4053,"""I never said that the majority of gun owners are racist . If you think that being compared to gay rights activists is somehow demonizing you then perhaps that shows how you feel about gay people . The issue is conservatives using liberal tactics to advance a conservative agenda .""","""Nice spin by way of projection but you are wrong as usual . I find your defination of your position to be too funny . Like it is some how wrong to turn the tables on the left by using their methods . You still fail to address the fact of liberal firearm owners . Or is the fact of owning a firearm enough to have one drummed out of the liberal camp , buttons ripped off and sword broken ?""",DISAGREE,"""The issue is conservatives using liberal tactics to advance a conservative agenda .""","""you are wrong as usual .""",,
15338,4076,"""This Pauline gospel of a dying and rising savior bore unmistakable similarity to many of the Greek and Roman mystery cults which had similar stories . Paul ’ s description of the eucharist as a Christian mystery lent further support to this view . But there were notable differences as well . ( Paths of Faith : Fourth Edition , John A. Hutchinson , McGraw-Hill , 1991 , p417 )""","""Yes , there are differences , but the claim is not that the other stories were identical , just that they preceded the time Jesus is claimed to have lived , and that elements of these various  “ foreshadowing ” stories were very similar to those told about Jesus . Continuing for a second on the idea of the eucharist having been  ‘ borrowed ’ by Christians from earlier traditions :""",AGREE,"""This Pauline gospel of a dying and rising savior bore unmistakable similarity to many of the Greek and Roman mystery cults which had similar But there were notable differences as well . ,""","""Yes , there are differences""",,
15361,4080,"""The  “ cut and thrust of peer review “ , in other words , a special interest .""","""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. `` Where ID falls flat on its face . Stop trying to dress that up as some kind of underserved mugging ; if you are n't prepared to understand and defend ID on a scientific level you are n't equipped to decide that it is being unfairly treated .""",DISAGREE,"""The  cut and thrust of peer review , in other words , a special interest .""","""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. ``""",,
15359,4080,"""The  “ cut and thrust of peer review “ , in other words , a special interest .""","""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. `` Where ID falls flat on its face . Stop trying to dress that up as some kind of underserved mugging ; if you are n't prepared to understand and defend ID on a scientific level you are n't equipped to decide that it is being unfairly treated .""",DISAGREE,"""The  cut and thrust of peer review , in other words , a special interest .""","""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. `` Where ID falls flat on its face .""",,
15374,4082,"""Just out of interest , which particular aspect of `` truth `` are you getting at here ?""","""You mean the truth of thousands of young teen girls dead with a coat hanger in hand ? Abortion is a neccessity so that it can be regulated . People will have abortions legal or not legal . At least provide a safety net other than a coat hanger .""",DISAGREE,"""which particular aspect of `` truth `` are you getting at here ?""","""You mean the truth of thousands of young teen girls dead with a coat hanger in hand ?""",,
15379,4083,"""Atheism does not show 'faithful devotion ' in any ultimate reality or deity . It is the LACK of a belief ( the belief in gods ) . Your definition of religion is thin .""","""Yes , they do show a faithful devotion to the ultimate reality that there are no gods . You 're an atheist , are n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Atheism does not show 'faithful devotion ' in any ultimate reality or deity""","""Yes , they do show a faithful devotion to the ultimate reality that there are no gods .""",,
15375,4083,"""Atheism does not show 'faithful devotion ' in any ultimate reality or deity . It is the LACK of a belief ( the belief in gods ) . Your definition of religion is thin .""","""Yes , they do show a faithful devotion to the ultimate reality that there are no gods . You 're an atheist , are n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Atheism devotion ultimate reality or deity""","""show a faithful devotion to the ultimate You 're an atheist , are n't you ?""",,
15384,4084,"""Hmm ... seemed really cold this year ...""","""Of corse it was cold this year every year is different Globle warming is a yuppie fraud study . I do not beleve in Globle warming . If there was globle warming we would not have snow like we did 2 and 3 years ago . Every thing has been normal that I can tell . Gee I wonder how much money was wasted on this foolish study and brain washing .""",DISAGREE,"""really cold this year""","""Of corse it was cold Globle warming is a yuppie fraud study . I do not beleve in Globle warming foolish study and brain washing""",,
15398,4086,"""How does that follow ? Fetuses are a necessary step in the reproductive process .""","""So what ? They are n't worth anything , are they ? Does it matter if we kill them ? No , in your reasoning it does n't because there are no absolutes .""",DISAGREE,"""Fetuses are a necessary step in the reproductive process .""","""They are n't worth anything Does it matter if we kill them ?""",,
15402,4087,"""Science teachers have to say that the earth is very old . Problem solved .""","""oh , sure ... ok ... whatever you say .""",DISAGREE,"""Science teachers earth is very old""","""oh , sure whatever you say""",,
15434,4093,"""The argument has been ( as I can understand it ) from the evolutionists that a lightyear is a constant while the creationists are arguing that it is variable as a result of gravity and the theories of Einstein .""","""Evolutionists do not argue about light-years as it is not a part of evolution . I don ’ t know how the theories that Einstein developed could be used to show that a light-year is variable . None of this has any effect on the vast amount of physical evidence that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old .""",DISAGREE,"""The argument has been ( as I can understand it ) from the evolutionists""","""Evolutionists do not argue about light-years as it is not a part of evolution .""",,
15438,4094,"""Why do we have a sense of obligation or responsibility to other people ?""","""I know I do . My parents taught me and I taught my sons . One is an officer of the court and the other is an Army noncom with 3 college degrees . I learned from my parents .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do we have a sense of obligation or responsibility to other people ?""","""My parents taught me and I taught my sons .""",,
15436,4094,"""Why do we have a sense of obligation or responsibility to other people ?""","""I know I do . My parents taught me and I taught my sons . One is an officer of the court and the other is an Army noncom with 3 college degrees . I learned from my parents .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do we have a sense of obligation or responsibility to other people ?""","""I know I do . My parents taught me and I taught my sons .""",,
15462,4101,"""That 's why I voted as I did as well . Ideally I 'd prefer the `` none required `` policy .""","""So why is it in the debates your position is easily viewed as opposed to firearm rights ?""",DISAGREE,"""That 's why I voted as I did as well . Ideally I 'd prefer the `` none required `` policy .""","""So why is it in the debates your position is easily viewed as opposed to firearm rights ?""",,
15464,4102,"""A little apple eating pales in comparison to what Cain and Able had to do to their sisters in order to further the human race . Had the apple not been eaten , the human group would have fizzled out . Walking-fish : If Cain & amp ; Abel had carnal knowledge with their sisters , we would all be a bunch of inbred XXXXXX ... Hey wait ... Maybe that 's why so many people act like XXXXXX .""","""And thus the human condition is explained at last !""",AGREE,"""A little apple eating pales in comparison to what Cain and Able had to do to their sisters in order to further the human race . Had the apple not been eaten , the human group would have fizzled""","""And thus the human condition is explained at last !""",,
15468,4103,"""Background checks , if you have ever been convicted of a crime involving a firearm or violence against another person you cant have a gun , I wouldnt mind requiring an hour long class on gun safety before you buy your first weapon either , fully automatics should be legal . There is more but right now I cant seem to think correctly so I will come back to this later .""","""the later the better , it seems to me""",DISAGREE,"""if you have ever been convicted of a crime involving a firearm or violence against another person you cant have a gun I wouldnt mind requiring an hour long class on gun safety before you buy your first weapon either""","""the later the better , it seems to me""",,
15487,4106,"""State-level governments are largely worthless , in my opinion . It is complete absurdity to allow Constitutions to be ammended based on the vote of the people .""","""Do the words `` govt . by the people and for the people `` not matter to you at all ? Furthermore , to say that the constitution should n't be allowed under the vote of the people itself in unconstitutional , since that 's the only way the Constitution CAN be amended . ( 2/3 of states ) A country that uses judges to determine such sweeping things as redefining marriage is a `` legistocracy `` , which we are quickly turning into as a nation . Even though judges are supposed to interpret the constitution , it 's still putting the fate of the people in the hands of individuals regarding their laws . This is not very far removed from monarchy . Personally , I think our founding fathers and the Constitutional framers are rolling over in their graves right now .""",DISAGREE,"""State-level governments are largely worthless , in my opinion .""","""Do the words `` govt . by the people and for the people `` not matter to you at all ?""",,
15492,4107,"""5 . Promote freedom of belief and disbelief .""","""But not at the expense of people spreading lies about science and forcing religious untruths into science classes .""",DISAGREE,"""Promote freedom of belief and disbelief .""","""But not at the expense of people spreading lies about science and forcing religious untruths into science classes .""",,
15511,4117,"""Originally posted by Crim I do not fear fatty foods because it would take decades of eating them often to have a negative affect . .""","""http : //www.c-r-y.org.uk/heart_attack ... thy_people.htm `` Among those who have been killed by the disease is the son of one-time Wales football manager , Terry Yorath , Daniel , who died aged 15 , within months of signing for Leeds United ; Olympic cycling hopeful Adrian Hawkins , 22 ; Everton footballing prodigy John Marshall who was just 16 ; and Laura Moss , 13 , a brilliant young international swimmer. `` http : //www.aapn.org/fatfood.html `` It starts a very early age , '' said pathologist Gray T. Malcom Good luck !""",DISAGREE,"""I do not fear fatty foods because it would take decades of eating them often to have a negative .""","""http : //www.aapn.org/fatfood.html `` It starts a very early age , '' said pathologist Gray T. Malcom Good luck !""",,
15512,4117,"""Originally posted by Crim I do not fear fatty foods because it would take decades of eating them often to have a negative affect . .""","""http : //www.c-r-y.org.uk/heart_attack ... thy_people.htm `` Among those who have been killed by the disease is the son of one-time Wales football manager , Terry Yorath , Daniel , who died aged 15 , within months of signing for Leeds United ; Olympic cycling hopeful Adrian Hawkins , 22 ; Everton footballing prodigy John Marshall who was just 16 ; and Laura Moss , 13 , a brilliant young international swimmer. `` http : //www.aapn.org/fatfood.html `` It starts a very early age , '' said pathologist Gray T. Malcom Good luck !""",DISAGREE,"""fatty foods because it would take decades of eating them often to have a negative affect .""","""Daniel , who died aged 15 , within months of signing for Leeds United ; Olympic cycling hopeful""",,
15515,4118,"""So it 's just a coincidence that nations that ban guns like England have much lower levels of gun violence and murder than the US ? That 's kind of hard to believe . NYC was so effective in reducing crime that the mayor of NYC was invited to Mexico City to help them reduce crime there . So I do n't think the possibility that gun control has been effective in cities like NYC can be ruled out . You may be confusing cause and effect . You would n't walk into a hospital and declare that because there are a lot of sick people in a hospital that hospitals do n't help people get better .""","""So the fact that there are fewer crimes in britain is evidence , but the fact that there is a great deal more crime in S Africa , despite having some of the strictest gun control laws in the world , is not ? In new york , the reduction in crime was the result of an overhaul of police and the criminal justice system . Couple pages on that : http : //www.city-journal.org/html/15_1_ny_crime.html http : //www.ny.gov/governor/patrecord/crime.html New York started instituting prohibitive firearms laws in the 60s . Most of the firearms laws they `` enjoy `` now were put in place in the 70s ( except for a brief round of idiocy in the 90 's having to do with semi-auto rifles .... `` assault weapons `` , which they banned despite the fact that the police commissioner of NY City testified that they had no record of one ever being used in a crime ) . So , they had prohibitive gun control for 30+ years , and then when they spent billions on theri criminal justice system and police , none of which had anything to do with gun control , their crime rate started to fall , and somehow you want us to believe that this was due to the gun control ? Nobody here is that gullible .""",DISAGREE,"""So it 's just a coincidence that nations that ban guns like England have much lower levels of gun violence and murder than the US ? That 's kind of hard to""","""So the fact that there are fewer crimes in britain is evidence , but the fact that there is a great deal more crime in S Africa , despite having some of the strictest gun control laws in the world , is not ? ``""",,
15519,4119,"""First you need to be old enough to be able to legally own a weapon .""","""Yea , that too , obviously . I did n't include that because obviously you would assume that .""",AGREE,"""First you need to be old enough to be able to legally own a weapon .""","""obviously . I did n't include that because obviously you would assume that .""",,
15532,4121,"""So , how many kids do you have ? And , do you know their names ? What they like to do ? It does n't sound like you 've been much of a dad if all you did is providing for them . Did you watch TV sports the rest of the time ?""","""so watching TV sports = bad daddy ? do you let your boyfriend/girlfriend or husband watch TV sports or only feminist approved TV channels ?""",DISAGREE,"""So , how many kids do you have ? And , do you know their names ?""","""so watching TV sports = bad daddy ?""",,
15551,4125,"""Not being able to change something would be an indication of not being omnipotent . Here is another example of your inadequacies .""","""corrected above , thank you , minus the insult that followed . It still stands however as a rational rebuttal .""",DISAGREE,"""Not being able to change something would be an indication of not being omnipotent . Here is another example of your inadequacies .""","""corrected above insult""",,
15559,4126,"""`` ( 12 . ) Handguns and assault weapons are explicitly protected by the 2nd Amendment because they are needed to fight against a tyrannical government , but tanks , fighter aircraft , helicopter gunships , and nuclear weapons are not protected for some reason .""","""Plague ships were n't protected under the Second Amendment during colonial days . This was the closest thing there was to a WMD , Americans could 've used them do devastate Britain and kill everyone . So why was n't the possession of plague infested ships protected ?""",DISAGREE,"""Handguns and assault weapons are explicitly protected by the 2nd Amendment because they are needed to fight against a tyrannical government , but tanks , fighter aircraft , helicopter gunships , and nuclear weapons are not protected for some reason .""","""So why was n't the possession of plague infested ships protected ?""",,
15583,4131,"""I have already asked God for forgiveness and he has forgiven me .""","""So , then you DO feel that what you did was a sin . Otherwise you would n't have asked forgiveness for it . I have one question . What was your motivation for starting this thread ? Was it to try and somehow prove that a person can be a Christian and have an abortion ? Just curious . IMO , you are right that you are forgiven for it , as God is a forgiving and loving God . But I hope you do n't do it again .""",DISAGREE,"""I have already asked God for forgiveness and he has forgiven me .""","""IMO , you are right that you are forgiven for it""",,
15630,4146,"""( 1 ) Almost all people say they believe in equality , but the real truth is that throughout American history it has traditionally been liberals rather than conservatives who have fought for equal rights for African-Americans , women , religious minorities , and political dissenters . In most of these battles , conservatives either sat on the sidelines or actively defended the status quo .""","""Here is the first LIE and rewriting of history by a proponent of gay marriage . If anyone actually studies the civil rights movement they will plainly see that it was the southern democrats who plunged us first into the civil war under Lincoln 's administration by attempting succession rather than freeing the slaves , and it was the DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS who fought civil rights legislation right up to the 60s before finally passing a weaker bill than was submitted by a Republican at the time . Al Gore Senior was one of the loudest opposers of civil rights . And was George Wallace and Governor Patterson , Governors who refused to honor or enforce equal rights after passage , Republicans or a Democrats ? For you children from Rio Linda , they were Democrats . They fought desegregation at every level of the process .""",DISAGREE,"""Almost all people say they believe in equality , but the real truth is that throughout American history it has traditionally been liberals rather than conservatives who have fought for equal""","""Al Gore Senior was one of the loudest opposers of civil rights . And was George Wallace and Governor Patterson ,""",,
15632,4146,"""( 1 ) Almost all people say they believe in equality , but the real truth is that throughout American history it has traditionally been liberals rather than conservatives who have fought for equal rights for African-Americans , women , religious minorities , and political dissenters . In most of these battles , conservatives either sat on the sidelines or actively defended the status quo .""","""Here is the first LIE and rewriting of history by a proponent of gay marriage . If anyone actually studies the civil rights movement they will plainly see that it was the southern democrats who plunged us first into the civil war under Lincoln 's administration by attempting succession rather than freeing the slaves , and it was the DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS who fought civil rights legislation right up to the 60s before finally passing a weaker bill than was submitted by a Republican at the time . Al Gore Senior was one of the loudest opposers of civil rights . And was George Wallace and Governor Patterson , Governors who refused to honor or enforce equal rights after passage , Republicans or a Democrats ? For you children from Rio Linda , they were Democrats . They fought desegregation at every level of the process .""",DISAGREE,"""In most of these battles , conservatives either sat on the sidelines""","""If anyone actually studies the civil rights movement they will plainly see that it was the southern democrats""",,
15636,4147,"""The CBO estimate was ~ $ 1Billion/ year in additional costs for legalizing 600,000 gay marriages .""","""Well , HRC estimates that the costs would be negligable and that some governments would actually save money . They site many studies on the issue , which I have not taken the time to look up , as I think this sort of statistic is worthless . It is unreasonable to ask same-sex couples to pay for the marriage of opposite-sex couples without asking opposite-sex couples to return this payment . Still , you seem very concerned about it , so I will provide this link : http : //www.hrc.org/Template.cfm ? Sect ... entDisplay.cfm It is an interest group in favor of gay rights , yes , but that does n't make them wrong . I did have a link to an actual study on the topic , but I can not seem to find it . I 'm sure if I scoured the Internet more , I could come up with something .""",DISAGREE,"""The CBO estimate was ~ $ 1Billion/ year in additional costs for legalizing 600,000 gay marriages .""","""I think this sort of statistic is worthless""",,
15643,4148,"""I 'm against abortion but pro-choice . Whether the fetus is human is not something that I think is really relevant to the matter , and in any case where we give it the benefit of the doubt it is still permissable to carry out abortions in order to safeguard a woman 's autonomy .""","""Why are you against abortion ?""",DISAGREE,"""it is still permissable to carry out abortions in order to safeguard a woman 's autonomy .""","""Why are you against abortion ?""",,
15659,4151,"""Arguably , the language of the Second Amendment is ambiguous . Thus decades of controversy about its true meaning . But in Heller , Scalia decides that the court , not the people , should clarify such text ..""","""Look over the Heller ruling again . All nine judges agreed unanimously that the Second Amendment protected a right that was wholly individual in nature . The only disagreement was whether the right still applied today . And no , the individual states and cities should n't be allowed to set their own standards for a constitutional right , that flies in the face of the 14th Amendment . And worse , you 're arguing for precedent that would basically allow the various states to not respect your other rights ; they could ban the shirt you choose to wear because it 's offensive to some small , insignificant minority somewhere .""",DISAGREE,"""Scalia decides that the court , not the people""","""the individual states and cities should n't be allowed to set their own standards for a constitutional right""",,
15678,4156,"""Can you imagine what the U.S. population would be without abortion ? Who will take care of all these children when the potential parent can not ? Abortion Statistics - U.S . Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute . In 2001 , 1.31 million abortions took place . 88 % of abortions occur during the first 6 to 12 weeks of pregnancy . 60 % of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children . 47 % of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions . 43 % of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old . * * information obtained from http : //womensissues.about.com""","""Chastity rather than promiscuity .""",DISAGREE,"""Who will take care of all these children when the potential parent can not ? , . 60 % of abortions are performed on women who already have one or more children""","""Chastity rather than promiscuity .""",,
15687,4158,"""Very Good Point ! ! !""","""Actually , it 's not a good point . I usually question the maturity of people who judge other people by where they were born and raised . There are good things about every state . Louisianna is just as good as any other state . So are most of the people who live there . There are crooks in every state , also .""",DISAGREE,"""Very Good Point ! ! !""","""it 's not a good point There are good things about every state . There are crooks in every state , also .""",,
15684,4158,"""Very Good Point ! ! !""","""Actually , it 's not a good point . I usually question the maturity of people who judge other people by where they were born and raised . There are good things about every state . Louisianna is just as good as any other state . So are most of the people who live there . There are crooks in every state , also .""",DISAGREE,"""Very Good Point ! ! !""","""Actually , it 's not a good point . just as good as any other state . So are most of the people who live there . There are crooks in every state ,""",,
15691,4173,"""Nor is there any need for some mythical molecular elemental , nebulas natural selection , or mystical transitionals based on peicemeal forensics and antithestic rhetoric .""","""Actually , there is . The naturalistic explanation is the only viable theory put forth . Out of all the other crackpot theories ( they really are n't theories ) , this as well as later evolution are the only parsimonious ones . You use occam 's razor to select the most parsimonious theory out of competing theories . You look at them and see which ones attempt to explain the same phenomenon , and then look to see how they do it . WHich ones assume something outside of nature ? Paranomal ? GOD ! Not the naturalistic common ancestor/primoridal soup . THat 's fully plausible , and natural . And natural selection is n't nebulous . Your ignornance of the subject obfuscates that judgement . It 's been observed and there is more than adequate evidence for the vast majority of scientists .""",DISAGREE,"""is there any need for some mythical molecular elemental , nebulas natural selection , or mystical transitionals based on peicemeal forensics""","""The naturalistic explanation is the only viable theory put forth . Out of all the other crackpot theories ( they really are n't theories ) , this as well as later evolution are the only parsimonious ones .""",,
15720,4179,"""It is n't `` someone else `` until it is born .""","""According to what ? Are you saying you should be able to kill a baby 2 inches from being born if you wanted ? It is n't born yet .""",DISAGREE,"""It is n't `` someone else `` until it is born .""","""Are you saying you should be able to kill a baby 2 inches from being born if you wanted ?""",,
15731,4195,"""The 7 day creation I am referring to , not merely the possibility of divine creation through the Big bang etc""","""Ok . I 'm not a YEC . So , God creation through science is a viable option for my faith .""",DISAGREE,"""The 7 day creation I am referring to , not merely the possibility of divine creation through the Big bang etc""","""God creation through science is a viable option for my faith .""",,
15736,4196,"""God created the heavens and the Earth . thats all there is to it . You may think the Bible is not true because it was written by man . Well the Bible says it was written by God , through man . You may ask , `` Why is the Bible true and other religious books are n't ? `` Christianity is n't a religion ... It 's the truth . God created us and His Son came and died on the cross for our sins because he loves us ! That 's not religion . The Bible is Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth !""","""And you do n't actually see the circulariey in your position ? The Bible is inspired by god because the Bible says that it is inspired by god . What if I wrote a book in which I declared that the book was inspired by god ? Good for you ? I 'll do it if you give me the word . And what about the Book of Mormon ? Takes your book and goes one better . Also inspired by god because it says that it is inspired by god .""",DISAGREE,"""Christianity is n't a religion ... It 's the truth . God created us and His Son came and died on the cross for our sins because he loves us ! That 's not religion""","""And you do n't actually see the circulariey in your position ? The Bible is inspired by god because the Bible says that it is inspired by god .""",,
15751,4198,"""We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country . For a country that murders it 's children can not be far from self destruction .""","""It 's one thing that stands between us and a mindless theocracy . It protects the freedom of women from would-be ayatollahs who would make them sexual slaves .""",DISAGREE,"""country that murders it 's children can not be far from self destruction .""","""women from would-be ayatollahs who would make them sexual slaves .""",,
15749,4198,"""We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country . For a country that murders it 's children can not be far from self destruction .""","""It 's one thing that stands between us and a mindless theocracy . It protects the freedom of women from would-be ayatollahs who would make them sexual slaves .""",DISAGREE,"""For a country that murders it 's children can not be far from self destruction .""","""It 's one thing that stands between us and a mindless theocracy .""",,
15754,4199,"""I think gay 'rights ' lobbyists would do well to start realizing that marriage really matters a lot to the majority of people in this country ,""","""You know , I 'd believe that more if there were people like the Shindler family who have pushed for federal courts to intervene and destroy the sanctity of marriage . There is nothing you could do or say that would convince me that Americans somehow have any respect for marriage whatsoever . What heterosexuals have done to destroy this institution from the inside out only tells me that heteros are simply spoiled children who have the attitude of : `` If we ca n't make it work , we are n't going to allow anyone else to come in and do marriage better. ``""",DISAGREE,"""would do well to start realizing that marriage really matters a lot to the majority of people in this country ,""","""There is nothing you could do or say that would convince me that Americans somehow have any respect for marriage whatsoever""",,
15763,4200,"""I do n't mean to get off on a tangent here , but it 's our duty to protect ourselves ? Right is one thing , but duty ?""","""Well let me put it like this , I consider it your duty because if you do n't protect yourself then you basically shift that responsibility to someone else . Not only is this incredibly selfish , but 9 out of 10 times the 'protection business ' gets outsourced to the State . This in itself it dangerous because when people decide that a third party like the State ( which has no real accountability ) has control over their lives it can all to easily lead to a situation where the State becomes tyrannical . More people have been killed by their own government than by any foreign government .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't mean to get off on a tangent here , but it 's our duty to protect ourselves ? Right is one thing , but duty ?""","""Well let me put it like this , I consider it your duty because if you do n't protect yourself then you basically shift that responsibility to someone else .""",,
15785,4204,"""But you are demanding that they CAN .""","""Wrong , that they have the choice . What they do with that choice is their own business . To give them back their reproductive rights .""",DISAGREE,"""But you are demanding that they CAN .""","""Wrong , that they have the choice .""",,
15798,4206,"""I 'd find it interesting to discover how many of those 58,000 were looking at very long and serious sentences , but were given a plea deal for reduced charges .""","""Get back to us on that .""",DISAGREE,"""were looking at very long and serious sentences , but were given a plea deal for reduced charges .""","""Get back to us on that .""",,
15800,4207,"""Hey , on a thread like this its fair game . Insulting each other appears to actually be on topic in this case .""","""well ... you got ta point there .""",AGREE,"""Hey , on a thread like this its fair game . Insulting each other appears to actually be on topic in this case .""","""well ... you got ta point there .""",,
15820,4217,"""No ones experience grants them license to kill someone .. or `` make a decision for them `` ( such as killing them ) .""","""See Begging the Question""",AGREE,"""No ones experience grants them license to kill someone""","""See Begging the Question""",,
15819,4217,"""No ones experience grants them license to kill someone .. or `` make a decision for them `` ( such as killing them ) .""","""See Begging the Question""",AGREE,"""No ones experience grants them license to kill someone""","""See Begging the Question""",,
15833,4220,"""I mean , we live in a Christian nation and we still kind of think , in our heart of hearts , that if a woman or girl is raped IT 'S HER FAULT .""","""You might want to get some help with that . The only people I have ever heard imply such things is feminists . That is really not right . It is time for you folks to understand that if a woman is raped , it is NOT her fault , it is the rapists fault . I do n't undestand how you folks can claim to be pro woman , then spread this draconian mindset .""",DISAGREE,"""we still kind of think , in our heart of hearts , that if a woman or girl is raped IT 'S HER FAULT""","""The only people I have ever heard imply such things is feminists""",,
15846,4222,"""He had a gun and believed the rightwing lies . He was just a little more credulous and paranoid .""","""You repeat that like it actually means something ! Could it that your side is paranoid looking for some vast Right Winged conspiracy ? Maybe it 's Bush 's fault !""",DISAGREE,"""He had a gun and believed the rightwing lies""","""You repeat that like it actually means something""",,
15866,4226,"""God fearing""","""What does that have to do with anything ?""",DISAGREE,"""God fearing""","""What does that have to do with anything ?""",,
15871,4227,"""You missed `` should not be required ``""","""as in anyone can purchase a fire arm without a background check or gun safety training ? not a good option . my apology if that was a failed sarcasm . -a|ex""",DISAGREE,"""You missed `` should not be required ``""","""anyone can purchase a fire arm without a background check or gun safety training ? not a good option .""",,
15893,4234,"""South Dakotans say `` repeal the extreme abortion ban ! `` Thanks to the hard work of 1,200 volunteers in 138 different cities and towns -- in nine weeks time -- we filed petitions with the names of more than 38,000 South Dakotans who are calling for the repeal of the extreme abortion legislation enacted by the South Dakota legislature and signed into law by Governor Mike Rounds on March 6. http : //www.sdhealthyfamilies.org/""","""732,000 DID N'T sign the petition . It seems only 5 % of South Dakotans say `` repeal the extreme abortion ban `` and that is ASSUMING that all the signatures are valid . The good news for South Dakota is that come November they can show America how they really feel about abortion as opposed to having the courts decide laws .""",DISAGREE,"""South Dakotans who are calling for the repeal of the extreme abortion legislation enacted by the South Dakota legislature""","""It seems only 5 % of South Dakotans say `` repeal the extreme abortion ban ``""",,
15924,4241,"""What a traitor !""","""Traitor ? More like the boy wised up on the matter . So , Brady , how 's it feel to have all your work and hopes destroyed in the blink of an eye ? How does it feel to know that your last best hope for a disarmed society has abandoned you by the side of the road , and you 're now out of options and the only thing left to do is eat the crow ?""",DISAGREE,"""a traitor""","""the boy wised up""",,
15934,4243,"""Let me get this straight , billions and billions of yrs ago nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of absalute kaos complete order , and from this order we went from being frogs to becomeing princes and princesses ? .. Cmon people think about it ! ! Until some one can come to me and provide me something out of nothing that reflects the perfect order in which nature displays today , we all know were we can stick the evolution theory ! ! !""","""Actually , nothing did not explode , a singularity expanded""",DISAGREE,"""nothing exploded , and from that explosion what we got was instead of complete order , to""","""nothing did not explode , a singularity expanded""",,
15942,4245,"""I ca n't think of any experiment to test ID so I ca n't think of any variables in that experiment .""","""If one ca n't attempt to falsify a theory then it is not open to science and therfore useless to science . It becomes simply an untestable belief .""",DISAGREE,"""I ca n't think of any experiment to test ID""","""ca n't attempt to falsify a theory then it is not open to science and therfore useless to science .""",,
15971,4251,"""Even though our planet is getting warmer , it is still a lot cooler than it was 4000 years ago .""","""The average global temperature follows a sinusoidal pattern , the general consensus is we are supposed to be approaching a peak . Projections show that instead of peaking , there will be continue to be an increase in average global temperature which exceeds that of the peak 4000 years previous .""",AGREE,"""Even though our planet is getting warmer , it is still a lot cooler than it was 4000 years ago .""","""Projections show that instead of peaking , there will be continue to be an increase in average global temperature which exceeds that of the peak 4000 years previous .""",,
15987,4255,"""He really is afraid that this debate might happen .""","""You think so ? Then accept my terms . Go ahead . See if you 're right .""",DISAGREE,"""He really is afraid that this debate might happen .""","""Then accept my terms . Go ahead . See if you 're right .""",,
15996,4257,"""However from the moment of conception organisms have some limited ability to reorganize their development if circumstances warrent , and that ability to change decreases with age .""","""But if there are too many dogs wandering around they do not change to be cats , or rabbits , or humans do they . They do not change so as to have eight legs and spider eyes do they . But yes development of the phenotype is a result of the genetic heritage interacting with the environment , but its not an intelligent process . If you starve a young organism to near the point of death and then rescue it with food it will not develop as if it had food when it needed it . It will not express its full genetic potential . The environment OFTEN changes the outcome of development by imposing limits on reaching the biotic potential provided in the genome .""",DISAGREE,"""moment of conception organisms have some limited ability to reorganize their development""","""But yes development of the phenotype is a result of the genetic heritage interacting with the environment , but its not an intelligent""",,
16045,4267,"""You 're just bald-faced lying , now . Since I have ( a ) made arguments based on facts , ( b ) used numerous sources , not just an online petition .""","""Let 's look at the last 15 threads ( at the time of this posting ) on this forum ... you have created 12 of them from my count and none of them are more than a news post . As far as I can tell you have no argument .""",DISAGREE,"""You 're just bald-faced lying , now .""","""you have created 12 of them from my count and none of them are more than a news post .""",,
16044,4267,"""You 're just bald-faced lying , now . Since I have ( a ) made arguments based on facts , ( b ) used numerous sources , not just an online petition .""","""Let 's look at the last 15 threads ( at the time of this posting ) on this forum ... you have created 12 of them from my count and none of them are more than a news post . As far as I can tell you have no argument .""",DISAGREE,"""You 're just bald-faced lying , now . Since I have ( a ) made arguments based on facts , ( b ) used numerous sources , not just an online petition .""","""you have created 12 of them from my count and none of them are more than a news post . As far as I can tell you have no argument .""",,
16084,4281,"""That makes my point , thanks ! ( Of course you did n't have them as part of a gay couple , if that 's the point you were trying to make )""","""No , i was not trying to make that point . I was in a heterosexual marriage for many of the same reasons that Justine has addressed . I just have never mentioned it before in this forum .""",DISAGREE,"""That makes my point , thanks ! ( Of course you did n't have them as part of a gay couple , if that 's the point you were trying to make )""","""No , i was not trying to make that point . I was in a heterosexual marriage for many of the same reasons that Justine has addressed .""",,
16121,4294,"""And to think that the God in question needs someone to acknowledge their presence as their lord and master before this all covering evil falls away ,""","""The only person who can take away your sin is God . No human can ever cleanse himself of his sins , so get over it .""",DISAGREE,"""And to think that the God in question needs someone to acknowledge their presence as their lord and master before this all covering evil falls away ,""","""The only person who can take away your sin is God .""",,
16161,4305,"""10 . Extreme Complexity Complexity beyond comprehension characterizes all life forms , including the so-called  “ simple cell. ” As Dr. Micheal Denton states referring to the cell ,  “ ... we would find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity ... beyond our own creative capacities. ” Everything , from atomic structures to cells , organs , organ systems , and living creatures speaks of incredible order , balance , and unity as a whole .""","""See the above critique . Of course , this also is underestimating the power of natural selection and random varition , and includes the logical fallacy of personal incredibiltiy .""",DISAGREE,"""Complexity beyond comprehension characterizes all life forms""","""underestimating the power of natural selection and random varition""",,
16167,4307,"""Here is what fascinates me about the judgmental criticism you offer of my opinion .""","""Well , criticism of your opinions is n't hard to find here . What is interesting is that you rarely have anything substantial against those criticisms . After all , you said that bees can not fly , tv show props are good evidence of creationism , and that oil is not a hydrocarbon . Your opinion does not count for much given its consistent history of massive and epic levels of incorrectness . Interesting how you think that because we arouse through natural processes we do n't have any more value than anything else that arouse through natural processes . Sterile sand is natural . So is uranium . Tell me , which is more valuable ?""",DISAGREE,"""what fascinates me about the judgmental criticism you offer of my opinion .""","""After all , you said that bees can not fly , tv show props are good evidence of creationism""",,
16175,4308,"""As for Germany , gun ownership was legalized five years before Hitler came to power , which does n't exactly support the argument that gun ownership is a defense against tyranny .""","""Actually it was a gun registration that occurred five years before Hitler came to power . Only why would you need gun registration if guns were illegal ? The public was armed just no one knew who . What the registration did was allow the Nazis to know who was armed and allowed them disarm those who were not in the party .""",DISAGREE,"""As for Germany , gun ownership was legalized five years before Hitler came to power""","""Only why would you need gun registration if guns were illegal ?""",,
16180,4309,"""A few Bible studies , comparing it to the flow of events , the nature of people , my shortcomings , the shortcomings of science etc , convinced me .""","""So your biased reading of the Bible coupled with your personal flaws and your misunderstanding of science is the basis of your religiosity ? Somehow I do n't think that 's something you 'd really want to brag about ...""",DISAGREE,"""the nature of people , my shortcomings , the shortcomings of science etc , convinced me .""","""Somehow I do n't think that 's something you 'd really want to brag about""",,
16196,4312,"""Nobody that supports gun ownership would mention it having any relation to military service .""","""REALLY ? let me reword it for the simple people ... If you are old enough to decide to die in the military for YOUR COUNTRY - you are old enough and mature enough to reasonably care for fire arms properly . IF you can LEGALLY join the military ( as in not a traitor or a criminal ) you should ALSO be allowed to own any weapon you can personally purchase . QUESTION : Are you a MODERATE or really pro FREEDOM ? with an attitude like yours - you MUST be a friggin wishy washy moderate !""",DISAGREE,"""Nobody that supports gun ownership would mention it having any relation to military service .""","""REALLY ? let me reword it for the simple people If you are old enough to decide to die in the military for YOUR COUNTRY""",,
16212,4316,"""Feminist Science ( http : //www.cddc.vt.edu/feminism/sci.html )""","""Can you read ? You linked to a site that is essentially a bibliography . The title is `` Feminism AND Science. `` Did you intend to mislead ?""",DISAGREE,"""Feminist Science""","""You linked to a site that is essentially a bibliography .""",,
16220,4318,"""It 's called Earth , you might have visited once . Regardless of how it got here , evolution occurs and can be observed on a daily basis .""","""And pray tell what new and interesting creatures have you seen the present ones evolve into this week ?""",DISAGREE,"""evolution occurs and can be observed on a daily basis .""","""you seen the present ones evolve into this week ?""",,
16225,4320,"""First of all , when gun owners say ban guns , it means , if you want to ban ANY Gun , you are a gun banner ! You guys want to muck up the argument with we do n't want to ban all guns , just some guns !""","""Such black and white thinking places the Supreme Court and the NRA at one time in the category of gun banners . The Supreme Court stated that only firearms in common use receive Second Amendment protection . The NRA once supported a ban on Saturday Night Specials : `` Viewed realistically , junky .22 handguns that retail for as little as $ 7.98 . . . are n't suited for target shooting , handgun hunting , or police or protection purposes . Most honest-to-goodness gun owners would n't have one around . Yet the reckless use of such junk has harmed legitimate firearms ownership. `` - `` Restraint on TV , Cheap Handguns Wins Favor , `` American Rifleman , ( March 1968 ) `` On the Saturday Night Special , we are for it [ banning ] 100 percent . We would like to get rid of these guns . '' 36 -NRA Executive Vice President Maxwell Rich , Senate Hearings on Saturday Night Special Ban , ( September 13 , 1971 )""",AGREE,"""when gun owners say ban guns , it means , if you want to ban ANY Gun , you are a gun banner ! we do n't want to ban all guns , just some guns !""","""reckless use of such junk has harmed legitimate firearms . ''""",,
16252,4325,"""Hello , please read http : //www.reasons.org/resources/apo ... ing.shtml ? main It is a good christian site that explains that there are lots of problems with Dr Russell Humphreys ' hypothesis .""","""Some interesting information , that website where you got your link from , `` Reasons To Believe `` ( RTB ) is not a creationist organisation . It is run by compromising Christians , such as Dr Hugh Ross . Answers in Genesis have got quite a lot of information on him and as a result have even more rebuttals to his arguments . Here are several links : http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4149.asp http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4128.asp I did notice , however , that the RIB article was written in the year 1999 . This is most pecular , because the AiG article in which Dr Russell Humphreys defends himself is written in the year 2000 . The following link is a very brief summary of how Dr Humphreys defended himself and his new Relativistic Cosmology from compromising Christians and evolutionists : http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs ... 10-10-2000.asp The following link is where Dr Russell Humphreys defends himself . It shows both the arguments and his rebuttals : http : //www.trueorigin.org/ca_rh_03.asp I would strongly suggest that you read it . I can definitely see how you may doubt Dr Humphreys new Cosmology , that was a pretty heavy attack , the much of it went zip , right over my head . But I just ca n't help but feel that they mis-interpreted several lines and are using some straw man attacks . I personally can not see anything wrong with his arguments , although if there is , he has given way for a new area of cosmology , a Creationist Cosmology . I hope that this helps clear up this little problem regarding `` Starlight and Time `` . Got to go , Matt .""",AGREE,"""It is a good christian site that explains that there are lots of problems with Dr Russell Humphreys ' hypothesis .""","""But I just ca n't help but feel that they mis-interpreted several lines and are using some straw man attacks .""",,
16256,4326,"""What consequences would there be for a mother who did n't want to give the name of the father ? Would there be any ?""","""None ... unless she uses abortion as a form of birth control and has them regularly .""",AGREE,"""What consequences would there be for a mother who did n't want to give the name of the father ? Would there be any ?""","""None ... unless she uses abortion as a form of birth control and has them regularly .""",,
16267,4328,"""The story of the literal Genesis is only rejected by those who are not looking to the absolute Truth found in God Almighty .""","""That 's idiotic . A literal reading of Genesis is rejected by every major sect of Christianity . What kind of a XXXXX looks at a bat and then claims that it is a bird because it says so in the wholey buybull ? You 've got to be a freek to count 6 legs on grasshoppers and then claim that your scripture is without error , even when it says they have 4 .""",DISAGREE,"""The story of the literal Genesis is only rejected by those who are not looking to the absolute Truth""","""That 's idiotic . A literal reading of Genesis is rejected by every major sect of Christianity .""",,
16278,4330,"""If what you uninformed religious bigots and hatemongers believe was n't so pathetic , it would be funny . What 's a guy aspoda do !""","""You toss out a false assessment as to what you THINK we `` believe `` , and ignore the very real reasons why we have explained that this legislation should fail . And in the course of Archie 's reply , he makes a statement so Freudian it 's kinda funny . Yup ! It 's an Archie reply ... You ask `` What 's a guy aspoda do `` For starters , you could address WHAT WE SAID on the topic instead of tossing out lame allegations . You evidently think it 's okay for the LEGISLATURE to politicize education certification according to their pet PERSONAL theories . You could start by explaining WHY you think this is valid .""",DISAGREE,"""If what you uninformed religious bigots and hatemongers believe was n't so pathetic""","""You toss out a false assessment as to what you THINK we `` believe `` , and ignore the very real reasons""",,
16280,4331,"""Monster : I believe in something very much like intelligent design but I also believe in evolution . I believe in a creator but summarily reject the bible . Clearly the bible is myth and a dangerous one at that . But I do not see why one can not and should not believe that evolution is simply the way our intelligent designer created us . An intelligent designer would design a system to produce the product as easily as possible . After the singularity was designed there is simply nothing left to do but sit back and enjoy the show .""","""All of that sounds a lot like Deism . Personally , if I was somehow FORCED to believe in a religion , based on what I currently know of the lot , it would be Deism .""",DISAGREE,"""Monster : I believe in something very much like intelligent design but I also believe in evolution .""","""All of that sounds a lot like Deism . Personally , if I was somehow FORCED to believe in a religion""",,
16289,4332,"""Browsing through AiG today I came across Ken Ham 's 'Creation : where 's the proof ? ' page . I found it very interesting and well written , and decided to put my own understanding to the test by discussing various points here .""","""How about a link , to the entire page ?""",DISAGREE,"""AiG page""","""link entire page""",,
16292,4333,"""If God is wrong , then the Bible is wrong . Evolution contradicts the Bible , plain and simple .""","""It contradicts a literal interpretation of the Bible .""",DISAGREE,"""If God is wrong , then the Bible is wrong . Evolution contradicts the Bible , plain and simple .""","""It contradicts a literal interpretation of the Bible .""",,
16296,4341,"""Another lie . The sentence you 've quoted never made any such argument .""","""The quote below which Obvious Child responded to does n't make enough sense to be an argument for anything . This whole thing about living side by side with carnivirous crocs by feeding them chicken has little to do with anything , really . Servant of Christ says : `` Thus , the scenes of the African villagers mingling with the crocodiles corroborate that humans could have lived alongside ( or nearby ) even carnivorous dinosaurs . The original  “ magical place ” where that happened was the Garden of Eden , before any animals had turned to carnivory. ``""",DISAGREE,"""never made any such argument .""","""does n't make enough sense to be an argument for anything . ``""",,
16302,4342,"""Creationist make little quips about how evolution must be a racist theory et cetera but when I ask them to explain in more detail they just disappear . I find this quite annoying what should I do about it ?""","""I know the feeling . Its very , very easy to make a statement associating two things ( like racism and scientific evolution ) its an altogether tricker one to then defend that statement against thorough scrutiny . Or should I say they [ YEC 's ] like to teach the contoversy ? Just challenge their assertions , when they do n't defend them and disappear it shows they are just taking the Michael .""",AGREE,"""Creationist make little quips about how evolution must be a racist theory et cetera but when I ask them to explain in more detail they just disappear .""","""I know the feeling .""",,
16311,4343,"""You surely are not insulting nocturnal09 by calling her an easy target are you ?""","""Nope , rather I 'm suggesting you consider her an easy target because you did n't want anyone else interjecting -- you wanted your prey to remain without more skilled allies .""",DISAGREE,"""You surely are not insulting nocturnal09 by calling her an easy target""","""you consider her an easy target because you did n't want anyone else interjecting""",,
16331,4347,"""4 ) If the militia is the National Guard , then I want formal seperation of National Guard from Federal authority .""","""And the state ... States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""",AGREE,"""If the militia is the National Guard , then I want formal seperation of National Guard from Federal authority .""","""And the state ... States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""",,
16348,4350,"""I am interested in your comment that natural selection is consistent with creationism . It was Darwin who first proposed that natural selection can be the major force driving the evolution of species . I thought that it was a creationist who first talked about natural selection and saw it as a way of slowing down the effects of the Curse that God placed on His whole creation ( i.e . by getting rid of mutations - beneficial mutations however are n't as readily removed from a population as they help a creature survive in a particular environment ) , after Adam and Eve sinned and rebelled against God .""","""Nope . It was Darwin . There are letters in which Darwin proposed his theory to friends as early as 1844 . Several of the leading scientists of Darwin 's day were aware of his theory .""",DISAGREE,"""I thought that it was a creationist who first talked about natural selection""","""Nope . It was Darwin .""",,
16361,4354,"""Reptile develops feathers . They offer reduced protection .""","""They do offer a good insulating blanket which would keep the body of the reptile warm which in turn , would allow the reptile to remain active for a longer period of time . This means more time to hunt and reproduce carrying the mutation onwards .""",DISAGREE,"""Reptile develops feathers . They offer reduced protection .""","""They do offer a good insulating blanket which would keep the body of the reptile warm which in turn , would allow the reptile to remain active for a longer period of time""",,
16369,4355,"""Let me explain , evolution ( the big picture ) involves a certain kind of animal turning into a different kind of animal , e.g . a reptile turning into a mammal for example .""","""No , it does n't . The big picture of evolution is that it is the observed change in the heritable characteristics in populations of organims over generations . In cases where populations become fragmented , the separate ( reproductively isolated ) segments of the population will accumulate genetic differences . The longer they are separated , the more likely it will be that they will be unable to interbreed if united . This is observed . The result is the establishment of separate species .""",DISAGREE,"""Let me explain , evolution animal turning into a different kind of animal""","""The big picture of evolution characteristics in populations of organims over generations""",,
16376,4356,"""Makes about as much sense as saying many of the car hating crowd ( people who support such laws as car registration ) also own cars . More evidence that your handlers have trained you to see the world in black and white .""","""Rosie O'Donnell publicly stated that she felt anyone who owned a gun should be sent to prison . However she has armed bodyguards to protect herself and her children . Talk about a hypocritical sow .""",DISAGREE,"""Makes about as much sense as saying many of the car hating crowd ( people who support such laws as car registration ) also own cars .""","""Rosie O'Donnell publicly stated that she felt anyone who owned a gun should be sent to prison""",,
16382,4357,"""He was probably an XXXXX to begin with then .""","""Actually he wasnt or I would n't have used that example .""",DISAGREE,"""XXXXX""","""he wasnt""",,
16391,4359,"""Monkeys do n't generally have problems with their private parts being functional .""","""How often to you poke your nose into monkey genitals in order to know that ?""",DISAGREE,"""Monkeys do n't generally have problems with their private parts being functional .""","""How often to you poke your nose into monkey genitals in order to know that ?""",,
16409,4362,"""You did n't qualify it by saying `` some `` pregnancies are life threatening or unbearable . Maybe yours was , but how can you say that for every woman in the world ?""","""I 'm sorry , this is pretty damn funny , coming from a pro-life person""",DISAGREE,"""You did n't qualify it by saying `` some `` pregnancies are life threatening or unbearable .""","""I 'm sorry , this is pretty damn funny , coming from a pro-life person""",,
16423,4364,"""oh yeah sorry if my definition sucks . i was in a hurry .""","""I suspect that haste had little to do with the suckiness of your definition . * In re : your rhetorical questions as to whether creationism is religion or if it is science . Actually , the courts of the U.S. have clearly stated that creationism is religion and is not science . That is the basis for the exclusion of the teaching of creationism from public school science classes . Laws that have forbidden the teaching of evolutionary biology or required the teaching of creationism , whether alone or in `` balance `` with evolutionary biology , are violations of the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment . See : ( Epperson v. Arkansas , 393 U.S. 97 [ 1968 ] ) , ( McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education , 529 F. Supp 1255 [ 1982 ] ) , and ( Edwards v. Aguillard , 482 U.S. 578 [ 1987 ] )""",DISAGREE,"""yeah sorry if my definition sucks . i was in a hurry .""","""That is the basis for the exclusion of the teaching of creationism""",,
16447,4368,"""As to the tired , misleading references to Catholic beliefs we 're seeing here , you 'll note that no `` theistic evolutionist `` ( Christian ) has finished any discussion with me in this forum .""","""Because all you ever do is accuse them of being a phony ( a.k.a . atheist ) as soon as they reveal that their theological beliefs do n't precisely match yours .""",DISAGREE,"""no `` theistic evolutionist `` ( Christian ) has finished any discussion with me in this forum .""","""Because all you ever do is accuse them of being a phony""",,
16452,4370,"""More people actuallysupport the FSM school of creationsim - would you agree that this could be a suitable compromise ?""","""What is this FSM ? If it follows what God says , then it would be a suitable compromize , but I 've never heard of this FSM .""",DISAGREE,"""More people actuallysupport the FSM school of creationsim - would you agree that this could be a suitable compromise ?""","""If it follows what God says , then it would be a suitable compromize , but I 've never heard of this FSM .""",,
16456,4371,"""That 's what `` reaching across the aisle `` is all about ! Although there was one Republican from Louisiana who agreed to the bill because Medicaid expansion alone would cover half her state . Otherwise , this `` appeasement `` stuff , as Keith Olbermann noted , is b.s . : You 're babbling .""","""Not ONE Republican will vote in favor of this bill . Just watch .""",DISAGREE,"""Although there was one Republican from Louisiana who agreed to the bill because Medicaid expansion alone would cover half her state .""","""Not ONE Republican will vote in favor of this bill .""",,
16461,4373,"""No matter what religion we are , we are human , we stray , we sin , WE ARE NOT PERFECT . But many religions preach forgiveness for sins . God forgives .""","""I 'm perfect .""",DISAGREE,"""matter what religion we are , we are human , we stray , we sin , WE ARE NOT PERFECT .""","""I 'm perfect .""",,
16467,4375,"""Perhaps this throws light on the question of whether T.rex was warm-bloodied or cold-bloodied . The possibility ( if confirmed ) of a feathered T.rex seems to indicate that they were warm-bloodied creatures that required insulation in a cool climate ? ? ?""","""Oh , yeah , the show went into this . They did n't really talk about T. rex that much at all . But they were pretty sure that the feathered dinosaurs must have been `` warm-blooded `` or somewhere toward truly warm blooded . There are still some animals today that are n't all the way ( but dinos , or some dinos , could have been all the way , who knows ? ) http : //coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/i ... /coldwarm.html""",DISAGREE,"""The possibility ( if confirmed ) of a feathered T.rex seems to indicate that they were warm-bloodied creatures that required insulation in a cool climate ? ? ?""","""did n't really talk about T. rex that much at all . But they were pretty sure that the feathered dinosaurs must have been `` warm-blooded `` or somewhere toward truly warm blooded .""",,
16477,4377,"""I 'm of the opinion marc9000 's original resolution is unworkable ; it would place a judge in an extremely difficult position in which to formulate a decision .""","""Because it 's simply too obviously true ?""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm of the opinion marc9000 's original resolution is unworkable""","""Because it 's simply too obviously true""",,
16476,4377,"""I 'm of the opinion marc9000 's original resolution is unworkable ; it would place a judge in an extremely difficult position in which to formulate a decision .""","""Because it 's simply too obviously true ?""",DISAGREE,"""it would place a judge in an extremely difficult position in which to formulate a decision .""","""Because it 's simply too obviously true ?""",,
16481,4378,"""I 'll try to be nice since you wrote it in 7th grade . Homo Sapien has n't existed for millions of years . It would be more appropriate to say that the Earth has provided the basis for life for hundreds of millions of years . And most of that goes into landfills .... Not really . World forests are at risk for farm land and non-paper logging , not for paper which is being replaced by post consumer waste at increasing rates . Most paper people use today contains at least some recycled paper . It 's not just cars and catalytic converters have greatly decreased emissions . Cereal factories are n't that big of polluters . The largest polluters are energy plants with a few exceptions like some of Alcoa 's smelters which burns one of the dirtiest types of coal in the almunimum production process . And the world will go from bad to worse , from worse to horrible and from horrible to castastrphoic . Not suddenly . That 's day after tomorrow fantasy . Flooding is more a immediate problem . No they are n't . The sun is the main source of weather through the energy transfer from light to various parts of the enviroment . We do n't actually know this for sure . There is some data but much speculation as to what is exactly causing larger and more frequent storms . The bigger problem of reducing salinity is the currents themselves and how they intergrate with migration and heat transfer . Sources of food that humans depend upon could disappear if currents drastically change . And the basis of Day after Tommorrow is correct in how the gulf stream helps regulate temperatures in Europe .""","""Thank you for your criticism . : D""",AGREE,"""I 'll try to be nice since you wrote it in 7th""","""Thank you for your criticism""",,
16482,4379,"""If Obama and Biden are elected , and with the majority of congress already consisting of anti-gun democrats , and if anti-gun judiciaries are appointed to the supreme court , then gun ownership could very well be banned , unconstitutional or not . But , since Obama can only serve eight years max , then the next president could undo the gun ban . But if Obama does ban guns , he will surely make the ban unchangeable by future leaders . I personally cant see Obama , congress , or the supreme court passing a gun ban though , because it would not only be political suicide , a gun ban would also devastate the economy . But if a gun ban is tried , look for the right to vote to dissapear as well , plus he will do away with the eight years maximum law that he can serve , he will do these to prevent being voted out of office and to keep from running out of time in which he can serve as president , thus making Obama a dictator at this point , and from there , all hell would break loose for Americans .""","""If Obama gets elected he will walk straight into the worse financial crisis in the states for decades . Within weeks Russia , North Korea and Iran will test his resolve ( China will wait to see what he does ) . This will keep him busy for a while . The last thing that he will want to do will be to address controversial issues like gun control or abortion . This will come in his second term or never !""",AGREE,"""If Obama and Biden are elected , and with the majority of congress already consisting of anti-gun democrats , and if anti-gun judiciaries are appointed to the supreme court , then gun ownership could very well be banned , unconstitutional or not .""","""If Obama gets elected he will walk straight into the worse financial crisis in the states for decades .""",,
16486,4380,"""On what grounds do you seek to redefine the institution of marriage from it 's accepted standard in this country ?""","""Who said anything about `` redefining `` it ? I said you would still HAVE YOUR `` traditional marriage `` according to YOUR chosen religion .""",DISAGREE,"""On what grounds do you seek to redefine the institution of marriage ?""","""I said you would still HAVE YOUR `` traditional marriage `` according to YOUR chosen religion .""",,
16487,4380,"""On what grounds do you seek to redefine the institution of marriage from it 's accepted standard in this country ?""","""Who said anything about `` redefining `` it ? I said you would still HAVE YOUR `` traditional marriage `` according to YOUR chosen religion .""",DISAGREE,"""to redefine the institution of marriage from it 's accepted standard in this country""","""I said you would still HAVE YOUR `` traditional marriage `` according to YOUR chosen religion .""",,
16501,4383,"""I did n't realize evolutionist were so closed-minded when I entered this forum .""","""Well ! I guess that just showed you guys . It seems that HeavenBound thinks that having a closed mind is a bad thing . And yet ,""",DISAGREE,"""I did n't realize evolutionist were so closed-minded""","""It seems that HeavenBound thinks that having a closed mind is a bad thing""",,
16507,4384,"""Look at S Africa , where illegal posession of a firearm can net you the death penalty . Besides the highest murder rate in the western world , and the fact that they drive around with flamethrowers on their cars because carjackings and violent thefts are so common , it is virtually a pacifist utopia .""","""You started off with criticizing gun banning , but now you seem to be criticizing tough punishments for criminals . A May 2006 article in the Cape Times said that `` National law currently provides for a sentence of 25 years for illegal firearm possession. `` http : //www.capetimes.co.za/index.php ... icleId=3230121 So if the death penalty is the punishment for illegal gun possession then I suppose the law must have changed recently . I wonder if the people who claim that we do n't need more gun laws but just tougher punishments for people who break current gun laws would support such a penalty .""",DISAGREE,"""Look at S Africa , where illegal posession of a firearm can net you the death penalty .""","""You started off with criticizing gun banning , but now you seem to be criticizing tough punishments for criminals . ``""",,
16520,4386,"""So all of you people who are opposed to imposing your moral belief on someone answer this for me ... What would have happened if Abraham Lincoln wouldnt have pushed his moral belief that slavery was wrong and that he wanted to get rid of it ? In a similar and more important issue , we are debating abortion .. Is it moral that 48 million babies ' blood is on all of our hands and some of us dont even feel a conviction about it ? ? Personally , i think its neccessary for the agenda of ending abortion to be pushed just like Abe Lincoln pushed his agenda to end slavery ..""","""Is n't this just saying that you ca n't even put the moral belief of not putting you moral beleifs on people on to others . At which point the whole moral thing breaks down anyway .""",DISAGREE,"""i think its neccessary for the agenda of ending abortion""","""you ca n't even put the moral belief of not putting you moral beleifs on people on to others""",,
16521,4387,"""So doing a detailed study of something requires that one takes a class for it in a university and reads books papers written on it by `` real scientists `` ? Wow , I never knew that . Thanx for enlightening me .""","""You are welcome . The idea that one would learn science from scientists seemed somehow obvious to me . The idea is somehow more complex than I imagined . If I am sick I do not consult my plumber or my mechanic . On the other hand , I do n't consult a geologist if my car breaks down . Where else would you learn science but from scientists ? How do you propose to learn about biology but from biologists ? How else do you propose to learn about science without reading books and papers written by scientists ? So yes indeed . A `` detailed `` study of a topic requires reading some actual significant literature or actually taking a course at some university . I 'll give you a hint though . Evolutionary biology classes are upper division - you 'll need 18 to 20 semester hours in biology to get in the door . In my day that it also required a course in genetics - which required a course in zoology and a course in botany . I mean , how can you claim to have done a detailed study if you have n't read anything written by an evolutionary biologist or taken a single course in evolutionary biology ? It 's a bit like claiming that I have done a detailed study of christianity by reading Stephen King novels . The problem is that you made up your mind before you knew the facts . You only sought information from sources who would tell you what you wanted to hear . You do n't have the knowledge to judge the scientific validity of the information . And yet you claim that you have done a detailed study of the topic with an open mind . I 'll give you a hint . I spent a year , an hour a day , 5 days a week , studying the Bible with a Bible scholar ( PhD ) . We read it cover to cover . That does n't even begin to touch on my studies in philosophy and theology . To learn about Christianity and the Bible , I went to theologeans an Bible scholars - I did n't consult one plumber or even an evolutionary biologist . So please . Exactly how did you accomplish your detailed study of evolution without reading a single piece of evolutionary literature or taking a single course in biology ? I am baffled .""",DISAGREE,"""So doing a detailed study of something requires that one takes a class for it in a university and reads books papers written on it by `` real scientists `` ? Wow , I never knew that . Thanx for enlightening me .""","""Exactly how did you accomplish your detailed study of evolution without reading a single piece of evolutionary literature or taking a single course in biology ? I am baffled .""",,
16543,4390,"""I am from Kansas and resent ( pandion ) being called stupid simply for living here . That being said , the people who voted for these school board folks do deserve to be called stupid . Well they would if they had much of a choice . I ca n't say this for sure , but knowing Kansas politics , I would say that , chances are , there was only one person on the ticket and if there were more , they probably all held the same views on evolution . That 's most of Kansas for ya . As a Missourian once said about Kansans : You 'd vote for a cupcake if it registered republican . There is an exception to this rule though . After the first evolution debacle back in '99 , Kansans voted those dimwits out and put in a new board that changed what the previous board had done . It just seems that some people have a very short memory . Why must these XXXXXX stain Kansas again ?""","""I think what people fail to realise is that the state school board in kansas does nto have the same power as school boards in other states . In ks , our state schoolboard is a buch of twits who seem to want to make life difficult for local schoolbord memebrs who have to field calls from parents concerned about the action of the state board , and they have to be continually assured that it will not have any effect on their childs education at a local level ..... nobody actually reads that * * * * anyway . You can point the following facts out to those who tell us we are XXXXXX in kansas who do not know how to run our schools : ACT Scores : Kansas has the 8th highest national scores ; the highest combination of scores and percentage of students tested . ( 2000 scores ) SAT Scores : Kansas has the 5th highest scores nationally . ( 1998 scores ) NAEP Reading Scores : National Assessment of Education Progress . Only one state had a higher average score and percentage of students at or above proficient level than Kansas for fourth grade ; only two states scored higher at eighth grade . There is a lot of stuff that pandion is saying `` you do n't learn in high school `` that my teachers tell me they are teaching . Then again , we also rank first when it comes to introducing college level curriculum to in our high schools . Maybe that is another reason that this is an issue brought up in kansas . Besides the fact that it is incredibly easy to get somethign in front of the school borad , the fact that we are covering more adcvanced curriculum might make this an isse . Youw ne tot the shawnee mission school district , which was THE highest ranked distict int he coutnry for 18 years running . Maybe we should mirror the KCMO school district , then there would not be these debates in Ks . I know a teacher in kansas city missouri ( a biology teacher no less ) who essentially says the same thing that pandion does .... that they do not teach these things in high school . If we turned out dumber kids , and wrenched control away fro local schoolboards and parents , we could probably turn out kids that are as dumbn as california kids , or illinois kids , or maybe , with the addition of mandatory labotomies , we could turn out kids as dumb as washington DC kids . THEN , we would not have such debates , . I do n't know that they are as small a minority as you are trying to say here , but even if they were , they are in a position of power . So the media is n't blowing this out of proportion . It does n't matter if a group is a minority if they are in power . Should Iraq have not been in the news before the war because the minority was in power there ? A crude anology I know , but you get the point . [ /quote ]""",AGREE,"""there was only one person on the ticket and if there were more , they probably all held the same views on evolution""","""THE highest ranked distict int he coutnry for 18 years running .""",,
16542,4390,"""I am from Kansas and resent ( pandion ) being called stupid simply for living here . That being said , the people who voted for these school board folks do deserve to be called stupid . Well they would if they had much of a choice . I ca n't say this for sure , but knowing Kansas politics , I would say that , chances are , there was only one person on the ticket and if there were more , they probably all held the same views on evolution . That 's most of Kansas for ya . As a Missourian once said about Kansans : You 'd vote for a cupcake if it registered republican . There is an exception to this rule though . After the first evolution debacle back in '99 , Kansans voted those dimwits out and put in a new board that changed what the previous board had done . It just seems that some people have a very short memory . Why must these XXXXXX stain Kansas again ?""","""I think what people fail to realise is that the state school board in kansas does nto have the same power as school boards in other states . In ks , our state schoolboard is a buch of twits who seem to want to make life difficult for local schoolbord memebrs who have to field calls from parents concerned about the action of the state board , and they have to be continually assured that it will not have any effect on their childs education at a local level ..... nobody actually reads that * * * * anyway . You can point the following facts out to those who tell us we are XXXXXX in kansas who do not know how to run our schools : ACT Scores : Kansas has the 8th highest national scores ; the highest combination of scores and percentage of students tested . ( 2000 scores ) SAT Scores : Kansas has the 5th highest scores nationally . ( 1998 scores ) NAEP Reading Scores : National Assessment of Education Progress . Only one state had a higher average score and percentage of students at or above proficient level than Kansas for fourth grade ; only two states scored higher at eighth grade . There is a lot of stuff that pandion is saying `` you do n't learn in high school `` that my teachers tell me they are teaching . Then again , we also rank first when it comes to introducing college level curriculum to in our high schools . Maybe that is another reason that this is an issue brought up in kansas . Besides the fact that it is incredibly easy to get somethign in front of the school borad , the fact that we are covering more adcvanced curriculum might make this an isse . Youw ne tot the shawnee mission school district , which was THE highest ranked distict int he coutnry for 18 years running . Maybe we should mirror the KCMO school district , then there would not be these debates in Ks . I know a teacher in kansas city missouri ( a biology teacher no less ) who essentially says the same thing that pandion does .... that they do not teach these things in high school . If we turned out dumber kids , and wrenched control away fro local schoolboards and parents , we could probably turn out kids that are as dumbn as california kids , or illinois kids , or maybe , with the addition of mandatory labotomies , we could turn out kids as dumb as washington DC kids . THEN , we would not have such debates , . I do n't know that they are as small a minority as you are trying to say here , but even if they were , they are in a position of power . So the media is n't blowing this out of proportion . It does n't matter if a group is a minority if they are in power . Should Iraq have not been in the news before the war because the minority was in power there ? A crude anology I know , but you get the point . [ /quote ]""",AGREE,"""That being said , the people who voted for these school board folks do deserve to be called stupid .""","""If we turned out dumber kids , and wrenched control away fro local schoolboards and parents""",,
16555,4392,"""A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed -- without remedy . - Proverbs 29:1""","""Translation ; `` Do what I say or I will kick your @ ss. `` Sounds a lot like the mafia . And you love this diety ?""",DISAGREE,"""A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed -- without remedy . - Proverbs 29:1""","""Translation ; `` Do what I say or I will kick your @ ss. `` Sounds a lot like the mafia . And you love this diety ?""",,
16566,4394,"""BTW - I do n't think hell is a place , either . For the lack of a better word , I believe it is a direction that eventually leads to spiritual death .""","""I do n't believe Hell is a place either ( or even if I believe in hell to begin with ) , but tell me more about what you mean by this . It sounds interesting .""",AGREE,"""I do n't think hell is a place , either . For the lack of a better word""","""I do n't believe Hell is a place either""",,
16570,4395,"""Evolutionism on the other hand uses all of our current technology in microbiology to sort out 'real dna ' from 'junk dna ' .""","""You 're a little confused about that . It 's all real DNA . Some of it just does n't code for anything . But some parts of non-coding DNA ( which you call `` junk `` ) has other functions besides coding for proteins .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionism on the other hand uses all of our current technology""","""Some of it just does n't code for anything .""",,
16633,4409,"""Wrong . It is a precision machine designed to kill effectively . It can be operated by other than human means . Yes , you would be wrong . No , they do n't . True , but nobody suggested there was such a grey area . We accept your word . I have never seen this , do you have examples ? So far as I am aware , nobody but you believes this to be the case .""","""So if it can be operated by means other than human control , are you saying a dog can operate it , maybe a monkey , thats something we see everyday . You are trying to split hairs Penfold , for a gun to be fired weather robotically , or training a primate to fire one still requires human intervention , so stop acting stupid because you are not stupid .""",DISAGREE,"""It can be operated by other than human means .""","""you saying a dog can operate it , maybe a monkey , something we see everyday .""",,
16643,4412,"""Duck , you are entitled to your views -- and so is the Pope . However , you have absolutely no right at all to impose your version of reality upon me and other women .""","""And yet you `` and other women `` feel free to impose their version of reality on innocent lives .""",DISAGREE,"""have absolutely no right impose your version of reality upon me""","""and other women `` feel free impose their version of reality on innocent lives .""",,
16663,4415,"""Whether you want to believe it or not is irrelevant . Our schools have the obligation to teach the most current scientific theories , you know , stuff like the earth orbits the sun . The students have an obligation to learn and understand their understanding of those theories .""","""So basically you are saying that evolution is the one and only true explanation of how we came to be , and that it is okay for the schools to force students to accept this `` fact `` . That is why they are failing .""",DISAGREE,"""Our schools have the obligation to teach the most current scientific theories ,""","""it is okay for the schools to force students to accept this `` fact `` .""",,
16670,4416,"""... where are the MILLIONS of links that supposedly connected them ?""","""Because of the rare nature of fossilisation , we do n't expect to see perfect transitional lineages through millions and millions of years . I really do n't think there are any scientists that think there SHOULD be millions and millions of transitions , because of the nature of fossilisation . Science is like a detective story . If you wanted to solve a murder , for example , you take a look at the evidence . You have a gun , spent rounds , dead body etc . To convict someone of a murder , you need fingerprints , blood on clothes , DNA and such to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person you are accusing actually shot the deceased and you can convict WITHOUT an eye witness . It 's the same for science and the fossil record , because there is no-one around who directly observed animals undertaking large changes over time . But if you take a look at the fossil record , molecular biology , geological time etc , this is what it shows . From what we understand from the last 100 or so years of evidence and investigation , biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the diversity of life on earth . 3 questions for Calligirl . For the 4th time . What would be YOUR definition of a transitional form ? When calculating the age of this earth , how precise do you expect or want scientists to get ? How many transitional fossils would you LIKE to see in what period of time ? I really do n't think this will progress if you ca n't tell us what it is you would like to see .""",DISAGREE,"""MILLIONS of links that supposedly connected them ?""","""rare nature of fossilisation , fingerprints , blood on clothes , DNA molecular biology""",,
16668,4416,"""... where are the MILLIONS of links that supposedly connected them ?""","""Because of the rare nature of fossilisation , we do n't expect to see perfect transitional lineages through millions and millions of years . I really do n't think there are any scientists that think there SHOULD be millions and millions of transitions , because of the nature of fossilisation . Science is like a detective story . If you wanted to solve a murder , for example , you take a look at the evidence . You have a gun , spent rounds , dead body etc . To convict someone of a murder , you need fingerprints , blood on clothes , DNA and such to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person you are accusing actually shot the deceased and you can convict WITHOUT an eye witness . It 's the same for science and the fossil record , because there is no-one around who directly observed animals undertaking large changes over time . But if you take a look at the fossil record , molecular biology , geological time etc , this is what it shows . From what we understand from the last 100 or so years of evidence and investigation , biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the diversity of life on earth . 3 questions for Calligirl . For the 4th time . What would be YOUR definition of a transitional form ? When calculating the age of this earth , how precise do you expect or want scientists to get ? How many transitional fossils would you LIKE to see in what period of time ? I really do n't think this will progress if you ca n't tell us what it is you would like to see .""",DISAGREE,"""are the MILLIONS of links""","""do n't expect to see perfect transitional lineages through millions and millions of years How many transitional fossils would you LIKE to see in what period of time ?""",,
16674,4417,"""'' When you go to war against your enemies ... suppose you see a beautiful woman whom you desire ... you shall take her .. and she shall marry you. `` - Deut . 21:10""","""Read to the very end of the verse . '' If you are not pleased with her , let her go wherever she wishes . You must not sell her or treat her as a slave , since you have dishonored her. ``""",DISAGREE,"""you suppose you see a beautiful woman whom you desire shall take her .. and she shall marry""","""If you are not pleased with her , let her go wherever she wishes .""",,
16684,4425,"""Thus if plasticity can instantly effect the hatch time of eggs , the size , shape , color , and physical/behavior characteristics of an animal , then about the only place I see a role for random mutations via natural selection is in the wishfully creative minds of evolutionists .""","""Evolution explains the examples ’ abilities to adapt . Without it , you ’ re in the hole .""",DISAGREE,"""wishfully creative minds of evolutionists""","""Evolution explains the examples ’ abilities to adapt .""",,
16686,4426,"""Creationism starts with a conclusion , and finds data to support it . According to the scientific method , one is suppose to look at data , and draw a conclusion from it . Therefore , creationism is not science , and needs not take any scientific consideration . The end .""","""Been saying that ever since the first time I heard about creationsism .""",AGREE,"""creationism is not science""","""Been saying that ever since the first time I heard about creationsism .""",,
16694,4427,"""Someone who actually had knowledge about the Civil War would certainly know that Lincoln did not believe the Union could be preserved unless slavery was abolished .""","""Considering your previous comment , that is n't you . Once again , that opinion is based upon who you read .""",DISAGREE,"""Someone who actually had knowledge about the Civil War""","""Considering your previous comment , that is n't you""",,
16702,4428,"""I assure you I never made such a claim .""","""Here 's what I was recalling :""",DISAGREE,"""I assure you I never made such a claim .""","""recalling""",,
16708,4429,"""I like how the Chinese view Christians . They simply can not figure out why so many missionaries go over to China and try to convert people . The Chinese are so lenient about religion that many practice several different religions and do n't have such strict codes as Christianity .""","""One reason for conversion is that they do practice many religions . Jesus said He is the only way to God . I believe that , so how can I just turn a blind eye when people follow so many different religions ? I would not be following the commands of my Lord .""",DISAGREE,"""I like how the Chinese view Christians""","""One reason for conversion is that they do practice many religions""",,
16724,4432,"""Make a damn point already . Posting nonsense like this proves nothing , other than the fact that you 're an internet troll .""","""Is n't the point pretty obvious- that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions ?""",DISAGREE,"""Posting nonsense like this proves nothing , other than the fact that you 're an internet troll .""","""that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions ?""",,
16736,4435,"""... The existence of it 's [ evolution ] category here is because this is a public entertainment , not because it 's a reasonable path for inquiry into the workings of the universe ...""","""It 's one of many viable paths , when combined with others , helps us to discover the workings of the physical universe . Unless , I 'm reading this wrong , and your statement means that the `` debate `` about evolution vs. creationism is n't a path for inquiry into the workings of the universe ... In which case , I would suggest that debate is a healthy way to help us all crystallize what we believe , which in turn can lead to greater discovery , indirectly .""",DISAGREE,"""The existence of it 's [ evolution ] category here is because this is a public entertainment , not because it 's a reasonable path for inquiry""","""which in turn can lead to greater discovery , indirectly .""",,
16735,4435,"""... The existence of it 's [ evolution ] category here is because this is a public entertainment , not because it 's a reasonable path for inquiry into the workings of the universe ...""","""It 's one of many viable paths , when combined with others , helps us to discover the workings of the physical universe . Unless , I 'm reading this wrong , and your statement means that the `` debate `` about evolution vs. creationism is n't a path for inquiry into the workings of the universe ... In which case , I would suggest that debate is a healthy way to help us all crystallize what we believe , which in turn can lead to greater discovery , indirectly .""",DISAGREE,"""public entertainment reasonable path for inquiry workings of the universe""","""one of many viable paths discover the workings of the physical universe `` debate""",,
16748,4438,"""For the sake of discussion let 's say it is the same one all the signers of the Declaration of Independence agreed it was .""","""And you believe that to be what ? You really need to just say who/what you think the Creator is to save us from having to make all these clarification posts .""",DISAGREE,"""For the sake of discussion let 's say it is the same one all the signers of the Declaration of Independence agreed it was .""","""You really need to just say who/what you think the Creator is""",,
16759,4442,"""Well , of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended . But again , either way , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""","""NOt true , California 's ammendments are not doing as well as other states did . You are talking about a very liberal state . If it is decided that marriage is allowed by the courts , then you are talking about taking away rights people have been granted by the courts . I just do n't think that will happen in Calf . much too liberal .""",DISAGREE,"""of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""","""NOt true , California 's ammendments are not doing as well as other states did If it is decided that marriage is allowed by the courts ,""",,
16765,4444,"""The federal level is perhaps a different story . However , the Constitutional amendment process allows for the masses to have their way in every area . Not through direct voting , but through their representatives .""","""Which , to my mind , is the more proper way to do things . Having the people decide on legislative matters seems alot like having a commitee of your neighbors decide on the proper way to perform your heart surgery . Too many states make it far too easy to get an issue on the ballot , and alot of very stupid laws and constituional amendments have resulted . Take a look at California politics if you want some examples .""",AGREE,"""However , the Constitutional amendment process allows for the masses to have their way in every area . Not through direct voting , but through their representatives .""","""Which , to my mind , is the more proper way to do things .""",,
16782,4449,"""Dr. Wells , a biologist and senior fellow at the respected Discovery Institute ,""","""Man , these guys ca n't even get into the science before they 're outright lying ...""",DISAGREE,"""a biologist and senior fellow""","""ca n't even get into the science they 're outright lying ...""",,
16786,4450,"""Outside of the fallacy above you fail to explain how gay relationships are harmful .""","""Well read this link , http : //www.realwomenca.com/newslette ... article_1.html Why take my word for it when you can read it for yourself from professionals , professors , mental health studies , etc . This link also disclaims the links you have listed . Finding flaws in their studies . So thats my source , and thats my stand .""",DISAGREE,"""how gay relationships are harmful .""","""link also disclaims the links you have listed . Finding flaws in their studies . So thats my source , and thats my stand .""",,
16795,4452,"""Great , and typically dishonest of you to post about the opinion of an Episcopal church which is pro gay and one of the most liberal in Souther California : All Saints Episcopal Church is an Episcopal church in Pasadena , California . It is widely claimed to be one of Southern California 's largest and most liberal churches , and is the largest Episcopal parish west of the Mississippi . It belongs to the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles . All Saints is known to support gays and lesbians , opposes the death penalty , opposes the Iraq war , and supports anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan . Can you find a bible believing church that agrees with them ? All Saints Episcopal Church ( Pasadena , California ) - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""","""Oh no an open minded church that does n't hate ? GASP ! And sorry but the bible has many interpretations as is clearly seen in the WIDE and VAST amount of differing denominations . Just because their not closes binded right wing bigots does n't mean you can grill them cause their interpretation is different ...""",DISAGREE,"""It is widely claimed to be one of Southern California 's largest and most liberal churches""","""And sorry but the bible has many interpretations as is clearly seen in the WIDE and VAST amount of differing denominations .""",,
16838,4464,"""I do n't think it 's invasive at the 2nd grade level , in the school . At least it should n't be -- rather than teachers teaching about relationships , I think they should teach about the subjects that schools are there for . You know , Writing , math , elementary science , geography , etc .""","""So reading and literature are n't to be taught ? I love it . More stupid , paranoid parents for me to mock mock mock . They are sooo part of a great big problem . A problem that sees my kid getting threatened and bullied - so I feel totally justified in my mocking . Frankly , there are days I would like to kick them in the teeth .""",DISAGREE,"""rather than teachers teaching about relationships , I think they should teach about the subjects that schools are there for .""","""So reading and literature are n't to be taught ? I love it . More stupid , paranoid parents for me to mock mock mock .""",,
16841,4465,"""Maybe you get all the way to the beginning of time and you find yourself with a molecule of some matter . The question is ... where did it come from .""","""And the answer is : we do n't know . Maybe it came from nowhere . Maybe it was created . We do n't know .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe you get all the way to the beginning of time and you find yourself with a molecule of some matter . The question is ... where did it come from .""","""And the answer is : we do n't know .""",,
16846,4466,"""Whether you agree or not - It 's the dark truth !""","""Translation : `` Shut up , I 'm right ! ``""",DISAGREE,"""Whether you agree or not - It 's the dark truth !""","""Translation : `` Shut up , I 'm right !""",,
16894,4495,"""Joe ; If it helps , I 'm a an ordained minister . I do n't care if those being married are `` believers `` or not ( like yourself ) all I care about is that those being married truly promice to love and care for each other . I know that you living in RI that the city of Windsor does n't help a whole lot , I would suggest Niagra for you because you 're so much closer to it , that 's if you 're interested in a Canadian Wedding . I will warn you though . Canadian marriage laws state that even though you do not have to be a resident of Canada to get married , you do have to be a Canadian resident for no less than one year to get divorced . ( not really something you 're thinking about , I know ... but it is something to be aware of )""","""Sure you do n't want to visit RI in Sept .""",DISAGREE,"""I know that you living in RI that the city of Windsor does n't help a whole lot""","""Sure you do n't want to visit RI in Sept""",,
16896,4496,"""Originally posted by Benjamin Dont come tell me who is a die hard Christian . That is sick , did God place you in a place of Christian authority ? No , it just so happens , God did not . It would have been far more acceptable for you to come and ask me or some other die hard , proven Christian .""","""Why do n't you point out exactly where I said anything about a `` die-hard Christian `` ? ? ? ? ? ? Creationism has nothing to to with Christianity , and it 's proponents tend to be some of the worst representatives .""",DISAGREE,"""Dont come tell me who is a die hard Christian""","""Why do n't you point out exactly where I said anything about a `` die-hard Christian `` ? ? ? ?""",,
16901,4497,"""I must admit I am not sure the point of this thread . If one wants to say that Christians are hypocrites then I 'd agree . In fact , it has to be that way as the Bible clearly states we all fail when it comes to not sinning . This does n't disprove any message though but does show that people are capable of doing the things they hate the most .""","""My point in starting the thread is not merely that Christians fall short of their aspirations . No .... this is worse . Because this particular U.S . Senator , an avowed conservative Christian , has actively worked to restrict the rights of others to marry , supposedly in the name of `` protecting `` or `` defending `` marriage , while at the same time undermining his own marriage . He makes a pretense , for political gain I suspect , of `` defending marriage `` by playing to people 's anti-gay prejudices while himself undermining marriage in his real life . That 's hypocrisy , and it 's dishonesty .""",DISAGREE,"""If one wants to say that Christians are hypocrites then I 'd agree .""","""He makes a pretense , for political gain I suspect , of `` defending marriage `` by playing to people 's anti-gay prejudices while himself undermining marriage in his real life . That 's hypocrisy , and it 's dishonesty""",,
16917,4499,"""Well , you ARE the one advocating the murder of physicians .""","""And that would make you the one that IS advocating the murder of our future generation .""",DISAGREE,"""you ARE the one advocating the murder of physicians .""","""that would make you the one that IS advocating the murder of our future generation .""",,
16916,4499,"""Well , you ARE the one advocating the murder of physicians .""","""And that would make you the one that IS advocating the murder of our future generation .""",DISAGREE,"""Well , you ARE the one advocating the murder of physicians""","""And that would make you the one that IS advocating the murder of our future generation .""",,
16920,4500,"""I fail to see why one must register an automobile but not a lethal weapon which is used solely to kill or maim .""","""I would like to hear a viable reason why they should be registered . The Canadian system has shown us it is money badly spent . It 's completely useless . I really does nothing to solve crime because for the most part , law abiding citizens would be the only ones registering their firearms .""",DISAGREE,"""I fail to see why one must register an automobile but not a lethal weapon which is used solely to kill or maim .""","""I would like to hear a viable reason why they should be registered . The Canadian system has shown us it is money badly spent . It 's completely useless .""",,
16929,4501,"""I checked my email today and noticed that I had received a few emails from the Brady Campaign . I 'll quote from the emails . '' Smile ... within the last hour , thanks to your help , we achieved a HUGE victory . By a vote of 52 to 47 , the Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban . Senators also agreed , 53 to 46 , to close the notorious 'gun show loophole ' that made it possible for criminals to buy firearms at gun shows without background checks. `` '' Whatever 's bigger than a smile , do it right now . We 've had a real victory today . The NRA 's hideous immunity bill is dead and it deserves to be . The bill that would have given immunity to Bull 's Eye , the gun dealer who armed the D.C. snipers , and other reckless gun dealers has been killed . It 's the most historic day for gun safety policy in the ten years since Congress passed the landmark Brady Bill. ``""","""Once again the enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar with nonsensical gun legislation designed to make criminals out of law abiding citizens ... To obey the law is to break the law ....""",DISAGREE,"""Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban .""","""Once again the enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar""",,
16925,4501,"""I checked my email today and noticed that I had received a few emails from the Brady Campaign . I 'll quote from the emails . '' Smile ... within the last hour , thanks to your help , we achieved a HUGE victory . By a vote of 52 to 47 , the Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban . Senators also agreed , 53 to 46 , to close the notorious 'gun show loophole ' that made it possible for criminals to buy firearms at gun shows without background checks. `` '' Whatever 's bigger than a smile , do it right now . We 've had a real victory today . The NRA 's hideous immunity bill is dead and it deserves to be . The bill that would have given immunity to Bull 's Eye , the gun dealer who armed the D.C. snipers , and other reckless gun dealers has been killed . It 's the most historic day for gun safety policy in the ten years since Congress passed the landmark Brady Bill. ``""","""Once again the enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar with nonsensical gun legislation designed to make criminals out of law abiding citizens ... To obey the law is to break the law ....""",DISAGREE,"""within the last hour , thanks to your help , we achieved a HUGE victory the Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban Senators also agreed , 53 to 46 , to close the notorious 'gun show loophole ' that made it possible for criminals to buy firearms at gun shows without background The NRA 's hideous immunity bill is dead and it deserves to be""","""enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar nonsensical gun legislation designed to make criminals out of law abiding citizens""",,
16927,4501,"""I checked my email today and noticed that I had received a few emails from the Brady Campaign . I 'll quote from the emails . '' Smile ... within the last hour , thanks to your help , we achieved a HUGE victory . By a vote of 52 to 47 , the Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban . Senators also agreed , 53 to 46 , to close the notorious 'gun show loophole ' that made it possible for criminals to buy firearms at gun shows without background checks. `` '' Whatever 's bigger than a smile , do it right now . We 've had a real victory today . The NRA 's hideous immunity bill is dead and it deserves to be . The bill that would have given immunity to Bull 's Eye , the gun dealer who armed the D.C. snipers , and other reckless gun dealers has been killed . It 's the most historic day for gun safety policy in the ten years since Congress passed the landmark Brady Bill. ``""","""Once again the enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar with nonsensical gun legislation designed to make criminals out of law abiding citizens ... To obey the law is to break the law ....""",DISAGREE,"""I checked my email today and noticed that I had received a few emails from the Brady Campaign . I 'll quote from the emails . '' Smile ... within the last hour , thanks to your help , we achieved a HUGE victory . By a vote of 52 to 47 , the Senate passed a renewal of the Assault Weapons ``""","""Once again the enemies of freedom have backhandedly slipped under the radar with nonsensical gun legislation designed to make criminals out of law abiding citizens""",,
16934,4509,"""The Big Bang arose from a singularity not from nothing .""","""Really ? Prove it with absolutely undeniable evidence which cosmologists will defend as irrefutable , if you can . Now let the excuses fly as you admit that nothing in science is absolute , that all we can do is make observations and extrapolate possible outcomes from them until new observations arise which either confirm or refute those previously accepted observations .""",DISAGREE,"""The Big Bang arose from a singularity not from nothing .""","""Really ? Prove it with absolutely undeniable evidence which cosmologists will defend as irrefutable , if you can . Now let the excuses fly as you admit that nothing in science is absolute""",,
16940,4510,"""This year , Mars lies a mere 56 million kilometres from Earth - the closest it has been for 60,000 years - so less fuel is needed to get to it .""","""This is obviously incorrect since Earth and Mars are were created only 6,000 years ago . And how did they know that Mars would be so close this year ? I have other questions too . How do they know that Pluto has a 249 year orbit of the sun since it was n't discovered until 1930 . No one has seen it orbit the sun yet . How did they know that it would actually come closer to the sun than Neptune in 1979 and move forther away again in 1999 ? They told me that when I was young . But no one had ever seen it . It was just speculation - a scientific theory , right ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""This year , Mars lies a mere 56 million kilometres from Earth - the closest it has been for 60,000 years - so less fuel is needed to get to it .""","""This is obviously incorrect since Earth and Mars are were created only 6,000 years ago . And how did they know that Mars would be so close this year ?""",,
16964,4515,"""no , too expansave , do you realy want to pay for there room and bourd for the rest of there lives ? lets just send them to aferica , one of those nice places that has already outlawed gun ownership .""","""Oh but you forgot the rest of my secret plan . Just like Hitler , first you take the guns , then you send them to 'jail ' . A jail with 'showers ' and 'ovens ' . The most important part of the plan is make sure anti-gunners do n't have guns . Which ofcourse is not a problem .""",DISAGREE,"""you realy want to pay for there room and bourd for the rest of there lives ? send them to aferica , one of those nice places that has already outlawed gun ownership .""","""Oh but you forgot the rest of my secret plan . Just like Hitler , first you take the guns , then you send them to 'jail ' plan is make sure anti-gunners do n't have guns""",,
16976,4517,"""Or a more obvious version - if science has over-ruled Noah and the Creation as impossible , why beleive in the reserection , another impossible act ? ...""","""I 'm new to this idea that science has over-ruled Creation . Please explain .""",DISAGREE,"""if science has over-ruled Noah and the Creation as impossible , why beleive in the reserection , another impossible act ? ...""","""I 'm new to this idea that science has over-ruled Creation""",,
17001,4521,"""ToE is a mechanistic theory -- it says life is like a machine . Machines are n't intelligent , they just do what they 're made/programmed to do .""","""Well , a pretty complex sort of machine , not at all like the kind ( so far ) intelligently designed by humans . And even if we do in the future invent machines that mimic life , that 's all they 'd be : mimics .""",DISAGREE,"""ToE is a mechanistic theory -- it says life is like a machine""","""Well , a pretty complex sort of machine , not at all like the kind ( so far ) intelligently designed by humans""",,
17008,4523,"""Here 's what I want : I want someone to please tell me exactly what evidence is there to suggest that dinosaurs are millions of years old ? Unfossilized dinosaur bones have been found lying on top of the ground .... they 've been found with soft tissue lodged in their bones ... they 've been found with their skin still attached .... their soft , unfossilized eggs have been found with fully-formed embryos inside .... there have been stones etched in ancient history depicting dinosaurs .... they 've been drawn on cave walls and chiseled into walls long before they were dug up or identified . They 've been dated via carbon 14 at 9-15,000 years old ..... What exactly is the evidence that dinosaurs are old ? Answer : more of Mr. Jack SQUAT . The only `` evidence `` science has is their NEED for dinosaurs to be old so that they can continue to fuel their propaganda machine . Evolutionary science has succesffuly hoodwinked the public into believing that dinosaurs are millions of years old , and they know if they admit this is false after all these years of fibbing to people , that the door for Creationism will be swung WIDE-OPEN ..... and the scam-artist atheists in science and the media -- knowing how they love controlling poeple 's minds -- simply can not have people thinking this way , so they keep this charade going . Check this site out ... read it all -- it 's not long .... read it nice and slow , it gets better and better the further you go down ... notice also what is said about Mary Schweitzer ..... Science is just such a huge scam .... read all the stuff this guy says about his dinosaur dig experience . This is just un-fffrreaking-believable . http : //www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/sage/v4i1f.htm""","""Well , I DUNNO ? ! ? ! Did god do it ! ? ! ? ? ! ? ! Of course dinosaurs exist . There are fossils proved to be millions of years old , by real scientists . Why is it so hard for you to accept the way the universe was made ? Why are you so afraid of logic ?""",DISAGREE,"""what evidence suggest that dinosaurs are millions of years old ? , . succesffuly hoodwinked the public into believing that dinosaurs are millions of years old""","""are fossils proved to be millions of years old , by real scientists .""",,
17021,4525,"""It can not change the way it was created . If the life of the mother is threatened then there is no winner : one will die and one will live or they will both die .""","""So given that there are cases where both dies ... we just have to give up the mother 's right to live over a fetus ( which will die ) ? What if the mother is n't physically ready to have a baby . In the case of a young female ( I 'm talking age of 9 and younger , cause there are cases of young kids having their periods ) being raped , does n't she a `` baby `` ( and I say baby , because she is still at an age where a parent would consider her their youngin ) ... have the right to live ? For me , if I knew my child was raped and is in no way ready for a child of her own , physically or mentally ... I would rather her not risk her life to try and bring that fetus into the world . Abortion should be pro-choice .""",DISAGREE,"""It can not change the way it was created .""","""So given that there are cases where both dies .""",,
17023,4526,"""One of the standard rebuttals you hear is `` How did the Kangaroos get to Australia `` ? I do n't know if that 's covered in the Bible ... if God transported them or not .""","""If God transported them then there is nothing to discuss because then all evidence is out the window . If it was supernatural , he could have also created everything 5 minutes ago with intact memories .""",DISAGREE,"""How did the Kangaroos get to Australia `` ? if God transported them or not .""","""God transported them all evidence is out the window supernatural , created everything 5 minutes ago with intact memories .""",,
17044,4530,"""I would like to see more conclusive data on the subject but most importantly a REAL plausible solution . I 'm not an expert but it does appear most scientists feel global warming is partly man-made . I do get a little sketched out when I see scientists are trying to restrict research for those that go against the theory . They may have strong arguments but that kinda BS really blows your credibility .""","""I see , when you say `` I 'm not an expert `` do you mean you are n't a climate scientist or do you mean you do n't have the scientific knowledge to discuss this ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do get a little sketched out when I see scientists are trying to restrict research for those that go against the theory . They may have strong arguments but that kinda BS really blows your credibility .""","""when you say `` I 'm not an expert `` do you mean you are n't a climate scientist or do you mean you do n't have the scientific knowledge to discuss this ?""",,
17049,4532,"""Right . And that is the reason for peer review . Creationists do n't subject their ramblings to peer review . That is why so much care is devoted to the proper construction of experiments to test the hypotheses by real scientists . Creationists just invent ad hoc stories without any experimentation .""","""Oh , dear . I seem to have lost you again . 'Peer ' just means a group of people holding the same biases .""",DISAGREE,"""Creationists do n't subject their ramblings to peer review . That is why so much care is devoted to the proper construction of experiments to test the hypotheses by real scientists .""","""'Peer ' just means a group of people holding the same biases .""",,
17050,4532,"""Right . And that is the reason for peer review . Creationists do n't subject their ramblings to peer review . That is why so much care is devoted to the proper construction of experiments to test the hypotheses by real scientists . Creationists just invent ad hoc stories without any experimentation .""","""Oh , dear . I seem to have lost you again . 'Peer ' just means a group of people holding the same biases .""",DISAGREE,"""That is why so much care is devoted to the proper construction of experiments""","""I seem to have lost you again . 'Peer ' just means a group of people holding the same biases""",,
17065,4537,"""And what about the constitution of the United States ? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness ?""","""Actually it 's all men .""",DISAGREE,"""Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness ?""","""Actually it 's all men .""",,
17074,4539,"""The total number of land-dwelling mammals birds , reptiles , and amphibian species is less than 20,000 or so .""","""I believe the current number is around 24,000 for those three groups . But anyways , if the ark only took kinds , rather than species , then that 's an awful lot of speciation occuring very rapidly .""",DISAGREE,"""is less than 20,000 or so .""","""the current number is around 24,000 for those three groups .""",,
17076,4540,"""Kelvin 's already proposed that the armed population of America has given serious protection to the US , specifically he mentioned Japan deciding not to invade . This is of course a nonsense . Iraq is a heavily armed nation -guns were given out to the general population before the USA invaded - ahem- I mean 'liberated ' . Did it stop the US ? Secondly , the specific example given ; that of Japan , is a nonsense . These same people who flung themselves in flying bombs , who refuesed to leave foxholes when starving - and would resort to cannibalism rather than surrender , he believes were worried about a few grannies carrying sawn-off shot-guns .""","""I 've asked this question and many others you may see me post , in a number of other forums . I 've recieved similar arguments , about a country not deciding to invade us . No Particular country was ever mentioned , However , if possible , I would like to belatedly clarify that I am asking this question in the context of the time we are now living in , as opposed to any other time . ( I 'm not sure if I made that at all clear in the post that started the thread . ) ( I take it that this question has been asked before in this forum , rather recently , I assume ? ? ? If not in an initial thread post , then perhaps within another thread . )""",DISAGREE,"""that the armed population of America has given serious protection""","""a country not deciding to invade us . No Particular country was ever mentioned""",,
17082,4541,"""I 've having some difficulty arguing against an particularly dense creationist in how other sciences such as chemistry , geology , astronomy ( indirectly ) and physics all support evolution . Can anyone name any particular examples of where sciences that support evolution are used in an practical way ? I already have the geology for finding natural gas and oil and its relation to ancient flora , but I need more examples .""","""You gather information from other forums , then use it as bait on yet another forum ? Exactly how many forums do you belong to ? I would hope you would n't be too surprised that others sometimes ignore you . Is this your main activity in life ?""",DISAGREE,"""Can anyone name any particular examples""","""I would hope you would n't be too surprised that others sometimes ignore you .""",,
17087,4542,"""Whatever , people losing jobs for saying they beleive in intellegent design . Good ? Bad ?""","""Whatever , people lying by saying that they lost their jobs because they said they believe in Intelligent Design ? Good ? Bad ? Utterly predictable ? http : //www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth""",DISAGREE,"""Whatever , people losing jobs for saying they beleive in intellegent design . Good ? Bad ?""","""Whatever , people lying by saying that they lost their jobs because they said they believe in Intelligent Design ? Good ? Bad ? Utterly predictable :""",,
17104,4548,"""Per your suggestion , I decided to get real . So here is the real Phyllis . I never said that you had to support anything . And voting for the democratic party does not prove that one likes democracy . And I never said that you had to support George Bush , nor did I say you had to be a republican . This is the real Phyllis signing off .""","""Well , either the real or imaginary Phyllis implied those things in the post under discussion .""",DISAGREE,"""I decided to get real . So here is the real Phyllis .""","""either the real or imaginary Phyllis implied those things in the post under discussion .""",,
17120,4553,"""The fact is that people are not prohibited from being married because of their sexual orientation .""","""Under interracial marriage , no black person was prohibited from marrying either . Should people have been satisfied with interracial couples being classified as `` civil unions `` ? Today , we recognize that racism is wrong . Yet some people still persist with homophobia . They fail to have a historical context on the real meaning of the methodology they recommend .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact is that people are not prohibited from being married because of their sexual orientation""","""Under interracial marriage , no black person was prohibited from marrying either . Should people have been satisfied with interracial couples being classified as `` civil unions `` ?""",,
17140,4566,"""Global warming is a controversy . Personally I am like hundred of maybe thousands if not millions of people that think it is liberal # # # # # # # # . The hole in the ozone layer is false , and I am sure this is too . -John Milosevic""","""You mean that hole that has been observed and proven , repeatedly ? Climate Change is a controversy in the same way as the earth being broadly spherical is a controversy . There 's a group of nutters who think the earth is flat ; does n't mean there is any reason to believe it is .""",DISAGREE,"""Personally I am like hundred of maybe thousands if not millions of people that think it is liberal # # # # # # # # .""","""You mean that hole that has been observed and proven , repeatedly ?""",,
17146,4568,"""He & # 8217 ; s not saying he won & # 8217 ; t renew the AWB , just that it will be difficult . And , & # 8220 ; tracing of bullets and ballistics. . . & # 8221 ; certainly sounds like he & # 8217 ; s like to see some sort of registration & # 8212 ; a fired bullet database , or microstamping implemented . : . . . One more thing & # 8212 ; one more thing I forgot to mention . One other thing we can do is to track the weapons that we have in Mexico . If we manage to detect weapons sold illegally in the United States in violation of this law on the control of weapons exports , or if , in the United States , they can have & # 8212 ; probably move forward on a good registry of armament or on the prohibition of certain massive sales of weapons , for example , to a hunter or to a common citizen & # 8212 ; we know that these people do not usually buy hundreds of rifles or assault weapons or grenades & # 8212 ; if we can move forward in those areas , I do believe that security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today .""","""President Obama Backs Inter-American Arms Treaty""",DISAGREE,"""He s not saying he won t renew the AWB , just that it will be difficult .""","""President Obama Backs Inter-American Arms Treaty""",,
17148,4568,"""He & # 8217 ; s not saying he won & # 8217 ; t renew the AWB , just that it will be difficult . And , & # 8220 ; tracing of bullets and ballistics. . . & # 8221 ; certainly sounds like he & # 8217 ; s like to see some sort of registration & # 8212 ; a fired bullet database , or microstamping implemented . : . . . One more thing & # 8212 ; one more thing I forgot to mention . One other thing we can do is to track the weapons that we have in Mexico . If we manage to detect weapons sold illegally in the United States in violation of this law on the control of weapons exports , or if , in the United States , they can have & # 8212 ; probably move forward on a good registry of armament or on the prohibition of certain massive sales of weapons , for example , to a hunter or to a common citizen & # 8212 ; we know that these people do not usually buy hundreds of rifles or assault weapons or grenades & # 8212 ; if we can move forward in those areas , I do believe that security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today .""","""President Obama Backs Inter-American Arms Treaty""",DISAGREE,"""security both of the United States and Mexico will improve because those weapons are pointing against Mexican people and Mexican officials today .""","""President Obama Backs Inter-American Arms Treaty""",,
17175,4576,"""`` Results . After adjustment , individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 ( P < .05 ) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession . Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist , this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 ( P < .05 ) . Conclusions . On average , guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault . Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year , the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas . Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or , at least , understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures. `` http : //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane""","""First off , I think NATO had a pretty good point . What makes you think that every person shot was a pure victim ? Second , is that why crime rates have gone down in DC after Heller vs DC and why they went down after Florida Shall Issue laws were reinstated ? I 'm guessing thats also why New York City and Chicago have such low crime rates , right ?""",DISAGREE,"""guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault .""","""What makes you think that every person shot was a pure victim ? why New York City and Chicago have such low crime rates , right ?""",,
17187,4579,"""This is an incoherent question .""","""Actually , there 's no question .""",AGREE,"""This is an incoherent question .""","""Actually , there 's no question .""",,
17207,4585,"""If you are this close-minded , impervious to logic and show this much delight in ignorance at your tender age , can you imagine how ( much more ) insufferable you 'll be when you grow up ?""","""You throw personal insults more than I do . So when will YOU grow up ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you are this close-minded , impervious to logic and show this much delight in ignorance at your tender age , can you imagine how ( much more ) insufferable you 'll be when you grow up ?""","""You throw personal insults more than I do . So when will YOU grow up ?""",,
17215,4587,"""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania . They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues . I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember , 43 % of the people in the study had no criminal record .""",DISAGREE,"""They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues .""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember""",,
17212,4587,"""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania . They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues . I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember , 43 % of the people in the study had no criminal record .""",DISAGREE,"""I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember , 43 % of the people in the study had no criminal record .""",,
17214,4587,"""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania . They 're a city known for violence and gang-related issues . I would n't be the least bit surprised if those that were shot and counted in this `` study `` were known gang members who were either shot by their intended victims , or by other rival gang members .""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember , 43 % of the people in the study had no criminal record .""",DISAGREE,"""Interesting how the study was set in Pittsburgh , Pennsylvania""","""Bad guy vs bad guy is included to be sure but remember , 43 % of the people in the study had no criminal record .""",,
17230,4591,"""I have not seen this posted , so I am wondering ... Can anyone give me an example of a transitional fossil that shows proof of one species changing into another ?""","""Besides asking what you mean by `` proof `` and what `` proof `` will be acceptable , I would also like to know what you mean by transitional . I can actually do better than show you a transitional fossil . I 'll show you a living transitional between two species . Go to almost any body of water in northern North America in the summer , or along the coasts of southern North America in the winter and look for birds like this . http : //www.martinreid.com/Image % 20files/HEGU18B.jpg There you go . The American herring gull ( Larus argentatus smithsonianus ) A transitional between two species . These birds range to the east across Greenland , Iceland , and into northern Europe . It looks about the same in Europe . http : //www.birdguides.com/html/vidli ... 015a001_j2.jpg They also range to the west from Alaska into Siberia , across Siberia and Russia all the way to northern Europe . But as you go further and further west their appearance begins to change . But there is never a place where neighboring populations can not and do not interbreed . But in northern Europe the populations from the west look a bit different . http : //www.birdguides.com/html/vidli ... 018a001_j2.jpg That 's the Lesser black-backed gull ( L. fuscus ) . Even though it shares the same range as the herring gull it does not interbreed with herring gulls . So here is one large population that has become two different species at the extremes of its range , and those extremes overlap . So the American herring gull is a transitional between the Herring gull and the Lesser black-backed gull . It is even thought that the original population from which all of these birds descended lived in North America .""",DISAGREE,"""transitional fossil proof one species changing into another""","""what you mean by `` proof `` and what `` proof `` will be acceptable I would also like to know what you mean by transitional I 'll show you a living transitional between two species . So the American herring gull is a transitional between the Herring gull and the Lesser black-backed gull .""",,
17237,4593,"""youre more concerned about those 22 to 30 thousand gun laws but Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand lives taken by gun violence each year and when youre dead guess what ? you dont have anymore rights protected by the bill of rights because youre dead so if youre really pro american and pro bill of rights then you should worry more about getting good gun control laws passed to protect peoples lives so they can enjoy their rights without having to worry about being shot and losing all their rights maybe youve just been decieved and dont understand what youre supporting""","""The deceived one is you Brady . How many of those alleged lives taken by gun violence were police shootings ? How many by gang memebrs killing other gang members ? Where did you come up with your figures Brady , VPC your namesake group ? They are thoroughly discredited as you should realize by now . How many are suicides ? The prevention models for these are different in case you were unaware . You fail to even consider how many of those lives were taken by criminals in the commission of a crime . Yet you would render us helpless to them in your quest for a non hostile working environment . Show exactly where in the constitution and Bill of Rights the wording for gun control . Here is a clue , they are n't there . If you were truely concerned about loss of innocent life then you would be supporting laws to keep the violent criminal away from society . Instead they are free after many arrests and convictions to prey upon a society that you would render helpless . Why Brady ?""",DISAGREE,"""you dont have anymore rights protected by the bill of rights because youre dead so if youre really pro american""","""The deceived one is you Brady . How many of those alleged lives taken by gun violence were police shootings ?""",,
17243,4594,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they do n't . I have never heard a biologist talking about `` mutations creating information `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they do n't .""",,
17240,4594,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they do n't . I have never heard a biologist talking about `` mutations creating information `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they ``""",,
17242,4594,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they do n't . I have never heard a biologist talking about `` mutations creating information `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwinists have long said that mutations have the ability to create new information .""","""Actually , they do n't . I have never heard a biologist talking about `` mutations creating information `` .""",,
17255,4598,"""this thread is odd .... are you implying that `` anti-choice `` ( I am going to use `` pro death `` for your position now ) folks want people in Africa to die ? You still have no idea what the `` anti-choice `` position is about and that is why your argument always fails""","""I understand that the position is commonly called `` Pro-life. `` However , pro-life should not just concern abortion . Pro-life should be about safe sex , peace , stem cell research , exercise , healthy eating and pollution control . As of yet , I 've never seen a Pro-life rally against obesity -- which kills more than any abortion clinic . It truly is `` Anti-Abortion `` and some can argue that it is `` Anti-Choice. `` The reason it 's not call anti-anything is because the prefix `` anti `` implies a negative , and all of our connotations make it a bad thing . No one wants to be anti-choice . And seriously , other than people who directly profit from it , who is `` pro-death ? `` As for the original post , it seems that story is more about some African women not knowing how to deliver babies , or prevent them .""",DISAGREE,"""this thread is odd .... are you implying that `` anti-choice""","""I understand that the position is commonly called `` . Pro-life""",,
17258,4598,"""this thread is odd .... are you implying that `` anti-choice `` ( I am going to use `` pro death `` for your position now ) folks want people in Africa to die ? You still have no idea what the `` anti-choice `` position is about and that is why your argument always fails""","""I understand that the position is commonly called `` Pro-life. `` However , pro-life should not just concern abortion . Pro-life should be about safe sex , peace , stem cell research , exercise , healthy eating and pollution control . As of yet , I 've never seen a Pro-life rally against obesity -- which kills more than any abortion clinic . It truly is `` Anti-Abortion `` and some can argue that it is `` Anti-Choice. `` The reason it 's not call anti-anything is because the prefix `` anti `` implies a negative , and all of our connotations make it a bad thing . No one wants to be anti-choice . And seriously , other than people who directly profit from it , who is `` pro-death ? `` As for the original post , it seems that story is more about some African women not knowing how to deliver babies , or prevent them .""",DISAGREE,"""you implying that `` anti-choice ``""","""The reason it 's not call anti-anything is because the prefix `` anti `` implies a negative""",,
17265,4600,"""abortion -- WHICH IS NOT A SIN .""","""hmm . really , I think it is . and so does the pope .""",DISAGREE,"""IS NOT A SIN""","""I think it is . and so does the pope .""",,
17274,4602,"""July 18 , 1984 : James Oliver Huberty""","""What else can you expect from a place like California ?""",DISAGREE,"""James Oliver Huberty""","""What else can you expect""",,
17294,4614,"""I ascribed potential motivations to the author of the article because I believe it is useful to consider where one is coming from . I did not write that the author explicitly wrote that no God exits , only that he suggests it . I did not write that the author of the article explicitly stated that evolution disproves God 's existence , only that it implies this . etc .""","""So in order to discuss an article you made up a bunch of stuff that was n't in the article , implied it was in the article , and failed to discuss anything that was actually in the article . I see . Will this be a one time thing , or is this the sort of thing we should expect from you on a regular basis ? Just wondering .""",DISAGREE,"""I ascribed potential motivations to the author of the article because I believe it is useful to consider where one is coming from""","""So in order to discuss an article you made up a bunch of stuff that was n't in the article ,""",,
17313,4617,"""So they ( pro-life peeps ) say abortion is murder . Of course , you can only murder people . So their rule is that fetuses ( feti ? ) are people also . But then they ca n't explain why fetuses are n't listed on the US Census , or why there is n't a funeral every time a woman has a miscarriage . Pretty much , along with the rules of having children , you would have to acquire the birth certificate during conception , you would have to pay taxes for children , even if you 're only pregnant , etc . Or am I missing something ? Care to clarify , anybody who disagrees ?""","""Yes , you are missing something . How come age does n't start at conception ? How come when babies are born they are n't 9 months old instead of , well , seconds old .""",AGREE,"""So they ( pro-life peeps ) say abortion is murder . Of course , you can only murder people . So their rule is that fetuses ( feti ? ) are people also .""","""Yes , you are missing something .""",,
17338,4621,"""A baby may look helpless . It can ’ t walk , talk , think symbolically or overhaul the nation ’ s banking system . Yet as social emulsifiers go , nothing can beat a happily babbling baby . A baby is born knowing how to work the crowd . A toothless smile here , a musical squeal there , and even hard-nosed cynics grow soft in the head and weak in the knees . In the view of the primatologist Sarah Blaffer Hrdy , the extraordinary social skills of an infant are at the heart of what makes us human . Through its ability to solicit and secure the attentive care not just of its mother but of many others in its sensory purview , a baby promotes many of the behaviors and emotions that we prize in ourselves and that often distinguish us from other animals , including a willingness to share , to cooperate with strangers , to relax one ’ s guard , uncurl one ’ s lip and widen one ’ s pronoun circle beyond the stifling confines of me , myself and mine . As Dr. Hrdy argues in her latest book ,  “ Mothers and Others : The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding ,  ” which will be published by Harvard University Press in April , human babies are so outrageously dependent on their elders for such a long time that humanity would never have made it without a break from the great ape model of child-rearing . Chimpanzee and gorilla mothers are capable of rearing their offspring pretty much through their own powers , but human mothers are not .""","""http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/science/03angi.html . I ’ ve had three children , which gave me an opportunity to observe intimately the development of infants . Also , I worked with emotionally unstable children aged 3 and older , and observed what a delightful species the three-year-olds are . At that point , infants have progressed from the largely self-involved awareness of the 24-month infant as the developing human deals with the problem of separateness and , as a result , issues a robust declaration of independence .  “ No ! No ! No !  ” are the bywords of a two-year-old .  “ No ! I won ’ t ! And you can ’ t make me !  ”""",AGREE,"""baby social skills infant beyond the stifling confines of me , myself and mine Evolutionary""","""I ’ ve had three children , which gave me an opportunity to observe intimately the development of infants . Also , I worked with emotionally unstable children aged 3 and older , and observed what a delightful species the three-year-olds are . At that point , infants have progressed from the largely self-involved awareness of the 24-month infant as the developing human deals with the problem of separateness and , as a result , issues a robust declaration of independence .  No ! No ! No !  are the bywords of a two-year-old .  No ! I won ’ t ! And you can ’ t make me ! Â""",,
17341,4622,"""For example , I do n't believe for a minute that the oil deposits were formed from the liquified remains of mass dinosaur graves from 65 million years ago , but I do trust and respect the scientifically proven techniques for locating and assessing the quality of that oil .""","""But again , that requires a YEC to contradict their belief in the flood . As earlier stated , previous YECs have gone into the field , looked at the data and evidence and abandoned YEC as it makes absolutely no sense . YEC 'science ' is not used in hydrocarbon production .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't believe for a minute that the oil deposits were formed from the liquified remains of mass dinosaur graves from 65 million years ago but I do trust and respect the scientifically proven techniques for locating and assessing the quality of that oil""","""But again , that requires a YEC to contradict their belief in the flood . As earlier stated , previous YECs have gone into the field , looked at the data and evidence and abandoned YEC as it makes absolutely no sense .""",,
17355,4624,"""If you 're in America , then go back to Britain where people like you belong .""","""I think he 's referring to intelligent , educated people with a good sense of humour ( good looking too ) who are n't paranoid beyond reason , can spell correctly and know what real beer is . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""back to Britain where people like you belong""","""referring to intelligent , educated people""",,
17359,4625,"""You did not ask for a quote which says `` we should ban guns `` and you posed the question TO `` anti-gunners `` you did not ask for anti-gun comments .""","""So if you quoted Ted Kennedy when he said to his wife in an event that was n't even publicized `` Good morning , sweetie `` , that would be an answer ?""",DISAGREE,"""You did not ask for a quote which says .""","""So if you quoted , that would be an answer ?""",,
17357,4625,"""You did not ask for a quote which says `` we should ban guns `` and you posed the question TO `` anti-gunners `` you did not ask for anti-gun comments .""","""So if you quoted Ted Kennedy when he said to his wife in an event that was n't even publicized `` Good morning , sweetie `` , that would be an answer ?""",DISAGREE,"""we should ban you did not ask for anti-gun comments .""","""Good morning , sweetie""",,
17362,4625,"""You did not ask for a quote which says `` we should ban guns `` and you posed the question TO `` anti-gunners `` you did not ask for anti-gun comments .""","""So if you quoted Ted Kennedy when he said to his wife in an event that was n't even publicized `` Good morning , sweetie `` , that would be an answer ?""",DISAGREE,"""you posed the question TO `` anti-gunners `` you did not ask for anti-gun comments .""","""So if you quoted Ted Kennedy when he said to his wife in an event that was n't even publicized""",,
17364,4626,"""But let 's reverse your scenario and see if it is consistent when animals are placed with humans ? Does the dog , which has been domesticated for centuries now , when adopted by a family as a puppy , adapt to its humans and learn how to be as humans are because of their closeness to us ?""","""No - but then the feral child illustration was intended to highlight the significance of human social 'DNA ' to humans , not to imply that it can civilize any old species . However , you raise a good point which I can turn to my advantage : let 's replace the dogs in your reversed scenario with , say , chimps . Can they learn table manners and use silverware , learn to use the toilet or bathe themselves ? Yes . I 've seen a bonobo prepare a boil-in-the-bag meal . I consider my point concerning the role of social DNA in distinguishing human from animal pretty much made""",DISAGREE,"""Does the dog , which has been domesticated for centuries now , when adopted by a family as a puppy""","""However , you raise a good point which I can turn to my advantage""",,
17363,4626,"""But let 's reverse your scenario and see if it is consistent when animals are placed with humans ? Does the dog , which has been domesticated for centuries now , when adopted by a family as a puppy , adapt to its humans and learn how to be as humans are because of their closeness to us ?""","""No - but then the feral child illustration was intended to highlight the significance of human social 'DNA ' to humans , not to imply that it can civilize any old species . However , you raise a good point which I can turn to my advantage : let 's replace the dogs in your reversed scenario with , say , chimps . Can they learn table manners and use silverware , learn to use the toilet or bathe themselves ? Yes . I 've seen a bonobo prepare a boil-in-the-bag meal . I consider my point concerning the role of social DNA in distinguishing human from animal pretty much made""",DISAGREE,"""But let 's reverse your scenario and see if it is consistent when animals are placed with humans ?""","""However , you raise a good point which I can turn to my advantage : let 's replace the dogs in your reversed scenario with , say , chimps . Can they learn table manners and use silverware , learn to use the toilet or bathe themselves ? Yes .""",,
17379,4628,"""No , says the Indiana Court of Appeals in Washington v. State . Correct , I think : The Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the standard for a Terry frisk is whether the officer reasonably suspects the person is  “ armed and dangerous. ”  “ Armed ” alone shouldn ’ t be enough , although of course in many cases the two will go together .""","""So there it is in black and white ! That LEO knew or should have know he was a legitimate ccw carrier but no matter as anyone in Texas can carry a gun in their car if they are not a gang member or convicted felon . Wrong is wrong , can you say `` wrong `` slick ?""",AGREE,"""No , says the Indiana Court of Appeals in Washington v. State""","""So there it is in black and white ! That LEO knew or should have know he was""",,
17377,4628,"""No , says the Indiana Court of Appeals in Washington v. State . Correct , I think : The Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the standard for a Terry frisk is whether the officer reasonably suspects the person is  “ armed and dangerous. ”  “ Armed ” alone shouldn ’ t be enough , although of course in many cases the two will go together .""","""So there it is in black and white ! That LEO knew or should have know he was a legitimate ccw carrier but no matter as anyone in Texas can carry a gun in their car if they are not a gang member or convicted felon . Wrong is wrong , can you say `` wrong `` slick ?""",AGREE,"""says the Indiana Court of Appeals in Washington v. State . Correct , I think : The Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the standard for a Terry frisk is whether the officer reasonably suspects the person is  armed and dangerous.Â""","""So there it is in black and white ! That LEO knew or should have know he was a legitimate ccw carrier but no matter as anyone in Texas can carry a gun in their car if they are not a gang member or convicted felon . Wrong is wrong , can you say `` wrong `` slick ?""",,
17398,4631,"""First , are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ?""","""Nope . How do you figure ?""",DISAGREE,"""are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ?""","""Nope .""",,
17395,4631,"""First , are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ?""","""Nope . How do you figure ?""",DISAGREE,"""are you not forcing your beliefs on me when you lobby for , enact , and support a law that legalizes an act that I see as murder ?""","""Nope . How do you figure ?""",,
17400,4632,"""Mach , quite simply , many hundreds of thousands of soldiers and people observed the events you listed . But , Mach , you never answered my question - instead adding your two cents with unrelated events that we have many human eye-witness accounts from . Can one observe any of the three things I listed above ? Do we have any eye-witness accounts from humans about these events ? No .""","""You mean you observed the greek and roman 's living it up ? You know someone who did ? What about when all of the people alive during WWI are dead ? Does WWI suddently NOT have happened ? Is that how your version of the world works ?""",DISAGREE,"""quite simply , many hundreds of thousands of soldiers and people observed the events you listed . But , Mach , you never answered my question""","""You mean you observed the greek and roman 's living it up ? You know someone who did ? What about when all of the people alive during WWI are dead ?""",,
17406,4633,"""The fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not , in itself , show that the restrictions are unjustified , since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it ;""","""Hmm , while she is right at the first point , the second does n't follow .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not , in itself , show that the restrictions are unjustified , since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it""","""Hmm , while she is right at the first point , the second does n't follow""",,
17444,4641,"""t also is n't a baby yet either . It is called a fetus .""","""Your technicality bs is not needed here ... granted you have only made 20 posts or so .""",DISAGREE,"""also is n't a baby yet either called a fetus .""","""Your technicality bs is not needed here""",,
17450,4643,"""For example , how many times have the Yankees won the world series ? I do n't know off hand , but I know it is n't 2 , and I know it is n't 1000000 , and I definately know it is n't -5.3 .""","""Oh but I wish the -5.3 won world series games for the Yankees was the truest information you could get in baseball . That would make me so happy . So would the Red Sox winning the 1000000 , and the Kansas City Royals winning 2 .""",DISAGREE,"""how many times have the Yankees won the world series ?""","""world series games for the Yankees was the truest information you could get in baseball .""",,
17456,4645,"""Did n't I just do that above ? Or is it beyond you to comprehend that ! I see no reason to wallow in the mud with you beyond proving my point .""","""Just so we 're clear here , your idea of `` proving your point `` that I 'm dishonest is to call me dishonest . Yeah , not quite how it works outside of Archie-land . Sorry .""",DISAGREE,"""is it beyond you to comprehend that ! I see no reason to wallow in the mud with you beyond proving my point .""","""your idea of `` proving your point `` that I 'm dishonest is to call me dishonest .""",,
17458,4646,"""Everyone ? By `` everyone `` do you also mean criminals that 're currently out and about on the streets , either because they 're on probation , parole , or legal technicalities ?""","""I think it depends on what they were charged with . Rapist-no child molester-no Basically most or all crimes of violence-no Possession of pot-o.k . your basic chicken # # # # stuff .""",DISAGREE,"""do you also mean criminals that 're currently out and about on the streets""","""Rapist-no child molester-no Basically most or all crimes of violence-no Possession""",,
17468,4656,"""Parallels that Are n't Parallel The key question in any slippery slope appeal is whether the two situations are truly similar in a morally relevant way . If not , then the illustration is guilty of a logical slippery slope fallacy . The analogy fails and the argument falls apart . Are there important differences between pregnancy and kidnapping ? Yes , many . First , the violinist is artificially attached to the woman . A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""This is just ridiculous . The argument does n't require the connection to be natural or artificial . Whether it is one or the other makes no difference in terms of the morality . If the point is irrelevant , the objection is irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""A mother 's unborn baby , however , is not surgically connected , nor was it ever `` attached `` to her . Instead , the baby is being produced by the mother 's own body by the natural process of reproduction .""","""This is just ridiculous . The argument does n't require the connection to be natural or artificial .""",,
17475,4658,"""I read it in the text :""","""Well , as we can see from other recent posts , your reading comprehension is below high school level . I do n't get it . Why do folks think lying enhances their POV ?""",DISAGREE,"""I read it in the text""","""Well , as we can see from other recent posts , your reading comprehension is below high school level . I do n't get it . Why do folks think lying enhances their POV""",,
17476,4658,"""I read it in the text :""","""Well , as we can see from other recent posts , your reading comprehension is below high school level . I do n't get it . Why do folks think lying enhances their POV ?""",DISAGREE,"""I read it in the text :""","""your reading comprehension is below high school level""",,
17485,4660,"""I also visited the university 's website and looked at their data . There does appear to be information which contradicts with the above listed article 's claims ( e.g . - http : //www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/te ... ure/nhshgl.gif ) . Not sure what he is talking about .""","""It is pretty bizzare . There are plenty of groups out there that will reach whatever `` conclusion `` you pay them to reach . Why he did n't cite one of them instead of an easily checkable source that says the opposite of what he says they do is beyond me .""",AGREE,"""There does appear to be information which contradicts with the above listed article 's claims""","""Why he did n't cite one of them instead of an easily checkable source that says the opposite of what he says they do is beyond me .""",,
17491,4662,"""Sickle-cell is a pretty good example , though , if you 're prepared to accept blood as a 'body part ' . I 'm not .... besides , sickle cell adds nothing benefical in the way of phenotype . We 've been over this here . Have anything else ?""","""Sickle cell trait confers malarial resistance , a phenotypic benefit . I 'm not going to go charging off finding more examples if you 're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend you ca n't hear me .""",DISAGREE,"""Sickle-cell is a pretty good example , though , if you 're prepared to accept blood""","""I 'm not going to go charging off finding more examples""",,
17503,4667,"""Very well , then which rational mind is acceptable for debate ? EF""","""Yours . ..........""",DISAGREE,"""which rational mind is acceptable""","""Yours .""",,
17512,4671,"""100 % In order for a round to be considered `` armor piercing `` , it has to have a penetrator . As long as you are not using .223 with a penetrator , you have NO legal issues at a federal level .""","""The ATF declared both .30 cal M2 AP and 5.56mm M855 Ball ( w/steel penetrator ) to be `` non-AP `` rounds . For those of you that have a problem with law abiding citizens having and using `` AP `` ammo .... wake up ! We ARE law abiding so what are you worried about ..... or do you think I do n't `` need `` it ? If so .. who are you to tell me what I `` need `` ? I have a rifle match next month ... I think I 'll go load up some AP for it since AP tends to shoot better in my M1 than regular Ball . : D""",DISAGREE,"""In order for a round to be considered `` armor piercing `` , it has to have a penetrator .""","""For those of you that have a problem with law abiding citizens having and using `` AP `` ammo .... wake up ! We ARE law abiding so what are you worried about""",,
17516,4672,"""What you say about a nose is of course an aesthetic judgment and entirely subjective . But we are not talking about noses here ; it 's the idea of perfection we have in focus . Ideas are internal to the thinker and it is merely our judgment that relates to the external world . So we could have a perfect idea of a perfect being but still have faults in our judgement . Having an idea of perfection does not imply that the thinker is perfect in some way .""","""yes , and i suppose an idea of perfection can exist , in a thinker 's mind , and subjective to the thinker 's standards of perfection . i could also point out that an imperfect thinker , with no reference or standard of `` objective `` perfection , is incapable of having a perfect idea of anything . therefore the argument falls apart at the first premise , since an `` idea of perfection `` can not exist , unless the thinker himself is perfect , which would make him God by his own definition .""",DISAGREE,"""Ideas are internal to the thinker and it is merely our judgment that relates to the external world .""","""incapable of having a perfect idea of anything . therefore the argument falls apart""",,
17529,4675,"""If he had signed a petition calling on the government do disband and criminalize the GOP , sure . If he had signed a petition to repeal freedom of religion and outlaw that person 's religion , sure .""","""So you 'd ask on these issues even if you did n't know if they had signed it ?""",DISAGREE,"""If he had signed a petition calling on the government do disband and criminalize the GOP , sure .""","""So you 'd ask on these issues even if you did n't know if they had signed it ?""",,
17547,4679,"""Just wondering , so how does a small woman protect herself from a large man ?""","""I think she is supposed to either scratch at him with her keys , or spray them with hairspray . I am sure we will se a lot more pages like the above linked in the near future . Now that Lotts research has been given the green light by the NAS , in fact , being the only body of research with which they found NO issues ( oddly enough , the anti gunners research was FULL of holes ) , there is nothing left to attack him on , and his work has been vindicated . So , lacking any real material with which to attack his actual work , the anti gunners are essentially stepping back and calling him a `` dummy head `` . In todays modern political/academic environment , what higher form of flattery can there possibly be than charachter assasination ? It is what they fall back on when they find your argument to be irrefutable . The NAS study was supposed to be `` their study `` . Instead the findings basically run that anti gun researchers are mostly liars who use HIGHLY questionable methodology , pro gun researchers are refreshingly honest , and at the end of the day , the pro gunners have won the war of statistics . It is over , there is really no point to debating it anymore . We have seen the most scritinized review of the available data EVER , and the antigunners have had the wind knocked out of their sails . Until some new data becomes available , I am pretty much done debating the statistical aspects . You want to call Lott a cross dressing dummyhead who was more than a little creepy as far as his defense of his work ? go ahead . The fact remains that despite the anti gunners best efforts ( which currnetly seems to be Donohue and Ayres ) , his work has been vindicated . Now , if there is any anti gunner out there who dares argue history in regards to this , lets go ! As Bryan pointed out in another thread , the antis generally seem to feel weakest in their argument when it comes to history , while the pro gunners seem to feel weakest when it comes to the social costs of gun ownership . GOOD NEWS for the pro gunners , we are now strongest in not only history , but the social aspects of gun control as well . We now know for sure that the antis gunners are living in lala land . Their argument is completely unsupportable .""",DISAGREE,"""so how does a small woman protect herself from a large man ?""","""I think she is supposed to either scratch at him with her keys , or spray them with hairspray""",,
17546,4679,"""Just wondering , so how does a small woman protect herself from a large man ?""","""I think she is supposed to either scratch at him with her keys , or spray them with hairspray . I am sure we will se a lot more pages like the above linked in the near future . Now that Lotts research has been given the green light by the NAS , in fact , being the only body of research with which they found NO issues ( oddly enough , the anti gunners research was FULL of holes ) , there is nothing left to attack him on , and his work has been vindicated . So , lacking any real material with which to attack his actual work , the anti gunners are essentially stepping back and calling him a `` dummy head `` . In todays modern political/academic environment , what higher form of flattery can there possibly be than charachter assasination ? It is what they fall back on when they find your argument to be irrefutable . The NAS study was supposed to be `` their study `` . Instead the findings basically run that anti gun researchers are mostly liars who use HIGHLY questionable methodology , pro gun researchers are refreshingly honest , and at the end of the day , the pro gunners have won the war of statistics . It is over , there is really no point to debating it anymore . We have seen the most scritinized review of the available data EVER , and the antigunners have had the wind knocked out of their sails . Until some new data becomes available , I am pretty much done debating the statistical aspects . You want to call Lott a cross dressing dummyhead who was more than a little creepy as far as his defense of his work ? go ahead . The fact remains that despite the anti gunners best efforts ( which currnetly seems to be Donohue and Ayres ) , his work has been vindicated . Now , if there is any anti gunner out there who dares argue history in regards to this , lets go ! As Bryan pointed out in another thread , the antis generally seem to feel weakest in their argument when it comes to history , while the pro gunners seem to feel weakest when it comes to the social costs of gun ownership . GOOD NEWS for the pro gunners , we are now strongest in not only history , but the social aspects of gun control as well . We now know for sure that the antis gunners are living in lala land . Their argument is completely unsupportable .""",DISAGREE,"""Just wondering , so how does a small woman protect herself from a large man ?""","""I think she is supposed to either scratch at him with her keys , or spray them with hairspray .""",,
17548,4680,"""In addition you would have to make possesion of a firearm illegal , then you have to balance defending your property with revealing you are commiting a crime ( will be fairly obvious if you use one and you would have to get rid of it anyway when forensics investigate the crime scene ) . Would also have to look at countries that have carried out sucessful ones to see if there are any little points or mistakes to pick up .""","""The first problem would be finding a country where there has been a sucessful gun ban . As far as I know , every country on the planet experiences some violence related gun use , even the ones with draconian gun control laws . Even in te Soviet Union , where posession of illegal firearms could potentially lead to a death sentence , there was still shootings .""",AGREE,"""you would have to make possesion of a firearm illegal , then you have to balance defending your property with revealing you are commiting a crime""","""As far as I know , every country on the planet experiences some violence related gun use , even the ones with draconian gun control laws .""",,
17557,4682,"""I like this concept . It seems to do a good job of explaining how microbes adapt so quickly to antibiotics , for example . Our blood cells multiply fairly quickly , but the genetic makeup does not change from one lymphocyte `` generation `` to the next . Yet we know that over our lifetimes they `` learn `` to produce new types of defenses against diseases . These adaptations are clearly not genetic , but they are a form of micro-evolution .""","""Actually , they are genetic . Our cells have receptors which are triggered by exposure to pathogens ; that 's how we `` learn `` to fight off a disease . And not everyone has the same receptors , which ones you posses is a genetic trait . It 's one of the reasons that Native Americans were so vulnerable to European diseases , they had n't evolved the receptors that would have enabled them to build up defences against the diseases the Europeans had lived with for generations . If your hypothesis was correct we would n't see different populations having different reactions to the same disease .""",DISAGREE,"""It seems to do a good job of explaining how microbes adapt so quickly to antibiotics , for example . Our blood cells multiply fairly quickly , but the genetic makeup does not change from one lymphocyte `` generation `` to the next .""","""Actually , they are genetic . Our cells have receptors which are triggered by exposure to pathogens ;""",,
17571,4685,"""I am rather passionate on this subject . My mother died at the age of 58 in 1963 , after several years of declining health .""","""Then you are probably a bit older than I . My mother was 45 in 1963 , the year I entered the Army . My mother will be 86 next month and we have a party planned with her older sister , nieces , grand nephews , grandchildren , and great grand children . I am so sorry for your early loss . My father died at 73 from complications after a `` successful `` surgery . It was still difficult .""",AGREE,"""My mother died at the age of 58 in 1963 , after several years of declining health .""","""Then you are probably a bit older than I .""",,
17573,4686,"""You would think someone of his intellect would have more sense , would n't you ? Let 's just protest this disgraceful train of thought , shall we ? Close the minds of children to think only what we want them to think . Hold on ... that 's the same thing that you 're saying religion is doing ...""","""Well , if intelligent design can come up with evidence , and a way to TEST it , rather than just saying 'This is too complicated , an intelligence must have done it ' , then maybe scientists would take it seriously .""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's just protest this disgraceful train of thought , shall we ?""","""is too complicated , an intelligence must have done it""",,
17587,4689,"""3 And God said , Let there be light : and there was light . 4 And God saw the light , that it was good : and God divided the light from the darkness . 5 And God called the light Day , and the darkness he called Night . And the evening and the morning were the first day .""","""After God had `` created `` the lights , that means when the lights ca n't pass through an non-transparet object , there 's a shadow and gone `` darKness `` , but the `` one `` who wrote the bible should be God but seemed did n't know this phenomenon , that `` writer `` said : God had to `` divide `` the light from darkness . That prove : - the writer was just someone who did n't have that scientific knowledge in the old days . Do you agree ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""God divided the light from the darkness""","""That prove : - the writer was just someone who did n't have that scientific knowledge in the old days""",,
17597,4692,"""Are we so arrogant that we assume we are the only animals capable of thought or choices ?""","""Yes , many people I feel are that arrogant .""",AGREE,"""Are we so arrogant that we assume we are the only animals capable of thought or choices ?""","""Yes , many people I feel are that arrogant .""",,
17607,4694,"""I think the argument that a woman has the right to determine what is done with her bodily resources during pregnancy lacks justification . For those who do : Do you assume that this is an absolute right and the moral good at any time and in every circumstance ( even before the 14th amendment existed and even in countries where it does not apply ) ? Do you agree that breast milk is a bodily resource of the mother ? If the answers to these questions are yes : Imagine a time when artificial formula did not exist . According to this reasoning it would be legitimate for a woman who suddenly decided she did not want to donate her bodily resources to withhold nutrition until the infant died . In fact , she should be able to dispose of that tissue some call infants through any of the same means as done in abortions ( that would be sticking scissors in the head , burning , ect ) . Infanticide would be a moral option for any woman who does not wish to donate bodily fluids to her newborn  “ parasite ” and does not have access to formula at any moment because of various reasons . I am sure there are women in the world today who do not have access to formula . Are these women justified in deeming these babies as life unworthy of life and disposing of them ?""","""A minor point , but your opening question is confined to `` during pregnancy `` and your concluding scenario is confined to childcare . The baby has no need of breast milk or a substitute formula until it is a breathing human . In that case , the mother ( at least in the USA ) is obligated to feed it , whether she uses her own milk or a substitute . I do not understand the interest in things before the 14th Amendment . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The 14th Amendment : Section 1 . All persons born or naturalized in the United States , and subject to the jurisdiction thereof , are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside . No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ; nor shall any State deprive any person of life , liberty , or property , without due process of law ; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws . Section 2 . Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers , counting the whole number of persons in each State , excluding Indians not taxed . But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States , Representatives in Congress , the Executive and Judicial officers of a State , or the members of the Legislature thereof , is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State , being twenty-one years of age , ( See Note 15 ) and citizens of the United States , or in any way abridged , except for participation in rebellion , or other crime , the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State . Section 3 . No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress , or elector of President and Vice President , or hold any office , civil or military , under the United States , or under any State , who , having previously taken an oath , as a member of Congress , or as an officer of the United States , or as a member of any State legislature , or as an executive or judicial officer of any State , to support the Constitution of the United States , shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same , or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof . But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House , remove such disability . Section 4 . The validity of the public debt of the United States , authorized by law , including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion , shall not be questioned . But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States , or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave ; but all such debts , obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void . Section 5 . The Congress shall have power to enforce , by appropriate legislation , the provisions of this article . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This has little to do with a mother 's obligations and rights regarding her children . It does prohibit states from denying rights , but it says nothing of a mother 's milk . States do have laws against deliberately starving children .""",DISAGREE,"""woman has the right to determine assume that this is an absolute right""","""A minor point remove such disability emancipation of any slave""",,
17615,4696,"""Is there a difference between secularism and atheism ?""","""Yes . The US Constitution is secularist , but it 's not atheistic .""",AGREE,"""Is there a difference between secularism and atheism ?""","""Yes .""",,
17623,4698,"""You seem to think that any time someone is killed , the reasoning behind it was that the perpetrator `` devalued human life `` . If that was the case , gun manufacturers , car manufacturers , breweries , and cigarette manufacturers would `` devalue human life `` simply because they make these products knowing that people will die from their use/abuse . And the government would `` devalue human life `` by letting these companies operate under it . We do not go targeting innocent civilians .""","""So know we are breaking it down to whether the loss of life is deliberate . The restaurant bombing . We thought Saddam was there . We KNEW civilians were there . We dropped four 2000lb bunker buster bombs on/around the restaurant . We KNEW that civilians would be killed . We knew that by pressing the button , the bomb would be dropped and people would die . Compare that to the manufacturers . They make products that people use in their daily lifes . There is n't a button somewhere in the cigarette maker 's office that kills a smoker when he decides it 's time for them to die .""",AGREE,"""You seem to think that any time someone is killed , the reasoning behind it was that the perpetrator `` devalued human life ``""","""So know we are breaking it down to whether the loss of life is deliberate""",,
17630,4700,"""Strike III .""","""And he 's out ! By the way , why did you say `` strike III `` and not `` strike 3 `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""Strike III .""","""By the way , why did you say `` strike III `` and not `` strike 3 `` ?""",,
17640,4703,"""Why do you say every medical association is against the ban ?""","""Because it was reported that every U.S. medical association was against the ban . My only source was MSNBC .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do you say every medical association is against the ban ?""","""Because it was reported that every U.S. medical association was against the ban .""",,
17651,4706,"""If you have a gun but get taken by surprise , or a burglar goes for your gun first when he breaks in you 've just given him a better weapon .""","""How many cases have there been of a person having their personal firearm taken right out of their hands by a criminal , never to be seen again ?""",DISAGREE,"""burglar goes for your gun first when he breaks in you 've just given him a better weapon .""","""a person having their personal firearm taken right out of their hands by a criminal ,""",,
17657,4708,"""Even talkorigins admits that most every mutation is a destructive thing .""","""Those are removed from the gene pool by natural selection . The other mutations stay in the pool . Pandion : we are making progress- he admits that mutations can be helpful .""",DISAGREE,"""Even talkorigins admits that most every mutation is a destructive thing .""","""The other mutations stay in the pool . Pandion : we are making""",,
17661,4709,"""Science is different . In science it 's a matter of who has the most convincing evidence . If we are to give Christianity the benefit of the doubt and allow it to throw its own evidence into the list of candidates , can you HONESTLY tell me that creationsim is the best answer ? If so ( and I extend the challenge I made to Lappster ) educate and enlighten us . I am eager ( as always ) to read the evidence for myself .""","""I have posted responses to Demon38Â ’ s earlier post . I have offered DNA findings as evidence to begin with . It is not my evidence , but scientific evidence . That is the only evidence that I will provide in this discussion . I think there is ample evidence to cause scientists to rethink their theories , evidence that they do not want to accept because it puts certain hypothesis they have advanced in a poor light .""",DISAGREE,"""Science is different . In science it 's a matter of who has the most convincing evidence .""","""I think there is ample evidence to cause scientists to rethink their theories , evidence that they do not want to accept because it puts certain hypothesis they have advanced in a poor light .""",,
17665,4710,"""They are all gifts it is how you choose to accept that gift that is questionable .""","""You mean you can choose how you accept it ?""",AGREE,"""They are all gifts it is how you choose to accept that gift that is questionable .""","""You mean you can choose how you accept it ?""",,
17681,4721,"""too bad darwinian evolution has nothing to do with it ..... proven by the fact that not ONE example of a beneficial random mutation can be presented/proven , nor can ONE example of natural selection be proven on the level of the individual . Thus , there 's only one thing left .... lamarckian inheritance . The body simply has the ability to transmit information about the external environment . It 's that simple .""","""Good points IMHO . I think you are holding your own here . But I want to read your views on how your detailed analyses can make a real difference . There are many with pre-conceived notions about evolution they learned in high-school , so changing opinions is not easy . Your ideas would really be a help here . Thanks""",AGREE,"""The body simply has the ability to transmit information about the external environment . It 's that simple .""","""I think you are holding your own here . But I want to read your views on how your detailed analyses can make a real difference .""",,
17692,4723,"""A good point . It 's hard to take posts from Rev . Hellhound and Patrick Henry seriously when they depend so much on propaganda from biased web sites .""","""Oh give it a rest ... Just because you have the attention span of a lemur does not mean I am posting `` propaganda `` Kelvin will vouch for the depth I have contributed in the past ... So if you are so willing to violate my civil rights will YOU be coming to get my guns or will you be sending someone elses child to do your nazi dirty work ?""",DISAGREE,"""when they depend so much on propaganda from biased web sites .""","""Just because you have the attention span of a lemur does not mean I am posting `` propaganda ``""",,
17698,4724,"""This is OK if you choose this path , we can have opinions about it being `` good `` or `` bad `` , but it does not imply either , there is no inherent negative connotation to being `` irrational `` . -Mach""","""This must comfort you .""",DISAGREE,"""This is OK if you choose this path""","""This must comfort you""",,
17740,4740,"""and Gould himself : UNDIRECTED . In a sense , the specter of directed variability threatens Darwinism even more seriously than any putative failure of the other two postulates . Insufficient variation stalls natural selection ; saltation deprives selection of a creative role but still calls upon Darwin ’ s mechanism as a negative force . With directed variation , however , natural selection can be bypassed entirely . If adaptive pressures automatically trigger heritable variation in favored directions , then trends can proceed under regimes of random mortality ; natural selection , acting as a negative force , can , at most , accelerate the change . ( Gould 2002 : 145 )""","""See above . I wo n't bother trying to de-quote-mine until you can provide evidnece that variation is directed .""",DISAGREE,"""the specter of directed variability threatens Darwinism Insufficient variation stalls natural selection With directed variation , however , natural selection can be bypassed entirely .""","""provide evidnece that variation is directed .""",,
17742,4740,"""and Gould himself : UNDIRECTED . In a sense , the specter of directed variability threatens Darwinism even more seriously than any putative failure of the other two postulates . Insufficient variation stalls natural selection ; saltation deprives selection of a creative role but still calls upon Darwin ’ s mechanism as a negative force . With directed variation , however , natural selection can be bypassed entirely . If adaptive pressures automatically trigger heritable variation in favored directions , then trends can proceed under regimes of random mortality ; natural selection , acting as a negative force , can , at most , accelerate the change . ( Gould 2002 : 145 )""","""See above . I wo n't bother trying to de-quote-mine until you can provide evidnece that variation is directed .""",DISAGREE,"""and Gould himself : UNDIRECTED . In a sense , the specter of directed variability""","""See above . I wo n't bother trying to de-quote-mine until you can""",,
17738,4740,"""and Gould himself : UNDIRECTED . In a sense , the specter of directed variability threatens Darwinism even more seriously than any putative failure of the other two postulates . Insufficient variation stalls natural selection ; saltation deprives selection of a creative role but still calls upon Darwin ’ s mechanism as a negative force . With directed variation , however , natural selection can be bypassed entirely . If adaptive pressures automatically trigger heritable variation in favored directions , then trends can proceed under regimes of random mortality ; natural selection , acting as a negative force , can , at most , accelerate the change . ( Gould 2002 : 145 )""","""See above . I wo n't bother trying to de-quote-mine until you can provide evidnece that variation is directed .""",DISAGREE,"""Insufficient variation stalls natural selection ; saltation deprives selection of a creative role""","""I wo n't bother trying to de-quote-mine until you can provide evidnece""",,
17761,4744,"""No Jim , by reason . You can not know the unknowable , it 's a contradiction . To claim anything about the unknowable implies knowledge of the unknowable . Me saying it has no relevance to it 's being rational .""","""This thread started with a challenge to God 's omnipotence . It had nothing to do with omniscience . Our definition of omnipotent is `` having virtually unlimited authority or influence . That appears to rule out the ability to do every conceivable task , uncluding those that are illogical . It does not diminish the power of God .""",DISAGREE,"""You can not know the unknowable""","""This thread started with a challenge to God 's omnipotence . It had nothing to do with omniscience .""",,
17759,4744,"""No Jim , by reason . You can not know the unknowable , it 's a contradiction . To claim anything about the unknowable implies knowledge of the unknowable . Me saying it has no relevance to it 's being rational .""","""This thread started with a challenge to God 's omnipotence . It had nothing to do with omniscience . Our definition of omnipotent is `` having virtually unlimited authority or influence . That appears to rule out the ability to do every conceivable task , uncluding those that are illogical . It does not diminish the power of God .""",DISAGREE,"""To claim anything about the unknowable implies knowledge of the unknowable .""","""Our definition of omnipotent is `` having virtually unlimited authority or influence .""",,
17764,4745,""".... The gun rights organizations did nothing wrong and neither did the sponsors or even the guy who rented them the MG . It was completely the fault of the person supervising the child ; his father . The fact is all gun rights organizations stress safety first , it 's not their fault some XXXXX failed to follow procedures .""","""So suddenly , being supervised by not one , but two law-abiding qualified ( in one case an instructor ! ) adults is not safe ? Who administered the training and qualifications of the instructor ? Who drew up the regulations which allowed this to happen ? Who pays lip service to `` safety `` in the use of their deadly toys ? We constantly hear that only criminals with guns are a threat , and the law-abiding gun owner is a paragon of rational safe behaviour . This is all too obviously not so .""",DISAGREE,"""It was completely the fault of the person supervising the child ; his father .""","""So suddenly , being supervised by not one , but two law-abiding qualified ( in one case an instructor ! ) adults is not safe ?""",,
17769,4746,"""Someone who does evil things is n't simply not doing good things , he is specifically doing evil . Evil is not the absence of good .""","""Define evil . The concept of evil is very subjective . If something is truly evil , then there must be an absolute concept of evil . But you will never come to agreement with everyone else in the world as to what makes something truly evil or good . What is your standard for determining what is evil ? Regarding the post above ... Hmmm ... Have you ever seen the planet Pluto ? How about Saturn ? Have you ever measured the sun with your own hands ? Have you ever walked completely around the earth to show that it was a sphere ( roughly ) ? The point is , there are many things that we accept as true because all known evidence suggests that it is true and no known evidence suggests that it is not true . Such is the case with evolution . Yes , the process of evolution has been observed and recorded by individuals . Just because YOU ( general you ) have n't witnessed it personally does not mean that you must accept it on faith alone . You could set up your own experiment or set out to study it for yourself and observe firsthand how it happens . But some people choose to learn from other people 's experience and accept the research of others .""",DISAGREE,"""Evil is not the absence of good""","""Define evil .""",,
17783,4752,"""You obviously got your opinions second hand . Read the sequel to Mein Kampf and you will never be able to say Hitler was not absolutely driven by Darwinism . At least not honestly .""","""So what ? Some of the greatest crimes in history have been led by people of faith . Take the Crusades for one , the religious knights killed every last man , women , and child in Jerusalem . It does n't discredit Christianity does it ?""",DISAGREE,"""Read the sequel to Mein Kampf and you will never be able to say Hitler was not absolutely driven by Darwinism .""","""It does n't discredit Christianity does it ?""",,
17789,4768,"""Foolish Clergymen . How can this work ? How can you take something as serious as the supposed Holy word of God and say that ? I mean if you cant take something as simple as what is said in genesis and beleive it then why the XXXX would people beleive in anything else the bible has to say ? If there is falsehood in it then how can any of it be trusted ? If the Creation , Adam and Eve , Noah and the ark are just there to serve as the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation . That is Absolutly ridiculous . Why stop with that ? Why not continue on to say that the story of Jesus was jsut a way for man to relate to God ? Oh but then it continues doesnt it ? Yes it does ! Nothing in the bible is to be beleived unless it is all beleived as a whole . It is torn apart . You can not pick and choose parts of this religion as it fits your needs . It simply must be all or nothing . Otherwise you are wasting your time .""","""You know , that sounds exactly what you are doing . I guess you are as foolish as they are .""",DISAGREE,"""Nothing in the bible is to be beleived unless it is all beleived as a whole . It is torn apart . You can not pick and choose parts of this religion as it fits your needs . It simply must be all or nothing . Otherwise you are wasting your time .""","""You know , that sounds exactly what you are doing . I guess you are as foolish as they are .""",,
17795,4770,"""Come to think of it , if we remove all religious-based laws , why are they pushing for gays to be included in MARRIAGE , one of the most legally oppressive institutions there is ?""","""Shh shhh it 's ok mellow mellow mellow . Relax you have managed to go from legalizing gay marriage to a collapse of our legal system and the downfall of man 's ability to reason and govern himself in two paragraphs . Maybe gay people would like to enjoy some of the happiness you get from your marriage and same as you that happiness is worth the oppressiveness incurred as a result . You may have more in common with gay people than you think .""",DISAGREE,"""Come to think of it , if we remove all religious-based laws , why are they pushing for gays to be included in MARRIAGE""","""Relax you have managed to go from legalizing gay marriage to a collapse of our legal system and the downfall of man 's ability to reason and govern himself in two paragraphs .""",,
17821,4779,"""Should we allow health-care to the homeless , and illegal ? For the homeless : Yes . However , I think that it should be based upon how they got to be homeless . Because , sometimes , it 's their fault . And in those times , I do n't think that we should have to cover all of their health-care . DO I believe that we should cover some of it ? Yes , because it 's the right thing to do , and it is what our nation claims . Equal rights . However , I have nothing to say on the issue of the illegal , because a member in my family was recently attacked ( stabbed ) by one , and the wounds are too fresh , and if I speak on it , I will be speaking with prejudice , so I will leave that subject alone . But , what are your views ?""","""So strange ! I am an Atheist , yet I must defer to the 25th Chapter of Matthew in the New Testament , verses 35-36 , the reference of Christianity :""",DISAGREE,"""I have nothing to say on the issue of the illegal , because a member in my family was recently attacked ( stabbed ) by one , and the wounds are too fresh , and if I speak on it ,""","""So strange ! I am an Atheist , yet I must defer to the 25th Chapter of Matthew in the New Testament , verses 35-36 , the reference of Christianity :""",,
17825,4780,"""What laws are these that you speak of ? Kindly provide the bill name and number so you have some actual proof and are n't simply parroting from the fear-mongering Brady Campaign and Violence Policy Center . During World War II the American people rounded up Japanese-Americans and herded them into concentration camps because you were at war with the people of Japan and thought that they were the sleeping enemy even though they had no proof . What you 're speaking of is no different than this . The way I see it Brady , your hatred for guns and gun owners is so overwhelming and logic defying , that you 'd be perfectly alright with unleashing a life-ending pandemic plague on the people of earth if you believed it would put an end to all gun owners everywhere .""","""He was refering to the result of Heller vs. DC , because the bill repealed stated that a child can not own a firearm . As expected , he was parroting Brady propaganda . However , the Brady campaign either did n't know , or ( more likely ) ignored the fact that all must follow federal law . They said `` Aww , well they 're repealing a local law that forbids children from owning guns ! ! `` while they ignored the federal law that does that .""",AGREE,"""What laws are these that you speak of ?""","""He was refering to the result of Heller vs. DC ,""",,
17831,4782,"""just remember , guys together are a danger to marrage , and geting some on the side is not .""","""Ever notice that the examples used to illustrate gay unions are usually males ? I 'm guessing that the typical male fantasy is still `` ok. `` Sometimes it 's just better to be a gal !""",DISAGREE,"""just remember , guys together are a danger to marrage""","""Ever notice that the examples used to illustrate gay unions are usually males ?""",,
17848,4786,"""I think this might be the wrong thread for this discussion . Something like this belongs in the crime debate area , where I 'm currently handing Jo his head over and over again .""","""Little late on the uptake here , but why is this the wrong thread ? I 'm familiar with the crime debate area , and there is a lot of crime debated here and the why with alls and this qualify 's , a sword rather than a gun is all .""",DISAGREE,"""I think this might be the wrong thread for this discussion .""","""Little late on the uptake here , but why is this the wrong thread ?""",,
17851,4787,"""I said , `` I do n't think that a Supreme Court decision necessarily shuts down the debate. `` And you say I 'm wrong . It 's scary if you think that a Supreme Court decision took away people 's freedom of speech to engage in debate about an issue .""","""You 're debating something that is no longer an option . You 're arguing on the grounds of debunked precedent , as if the previous interpretations of the Second Amendment are somehow still viable . Well they are n't anymore , arguing old standing is no longer going to be an option for you or anyone else . All of your previous arguments have been eliminated from the equation . It 's time to either evolve to meet the changing landscape , or go extinct like the dinosaurs .""",DISAGREE,"""I said , `` I do n't think that a Supreme Court decision necessarily shuts down the . debate""","""You 're debating something that is no longer an option .""",,
17862,4797,"""What 's everyone 's opinion ?""","""depends on your definition of `` human being. ``""",AGREE,"""What 's everyone 's opinion ?""","""depends on your definition of `` human being. ``""",,
17868,4798,"""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""","""So ? Life is cheap . You ca n't change that , the least you can do is profit from it . And people call me a leftist ! That 's a hardcore capitalist view .""",DISAGREE,"""The anti-abortionists claim that would be killing a human life to save one .""","""So ? Life is cheap .""",,
17869,4799,"""Oh , okay , I understand it now . I still think it sounds quick but then again , I 'm not a member of the bird family .""","""Also keep in mind that some changes can happen quickly if you select for a quality that 's already present in the population . Something like beak size will following a bell curve . Most beaks close to average size , some larger than average , some smaller . If pressures change so that those with below average beak size gain some advantage than they can exploit it instantly . From the word go they will be eating better and be more healthy than their big beaked cousins , and so more likely to breed successfully come next breeding season . And if the little beakers are the most successful breeders than we would expect to see alot of little beaks in the next generation . Basically , the genetic variety is already present in the population , so exploiting that variety can happen quickly .""",AGREE,"""Oh , okay , I understand it now . I still think it sounds quick but then again , I 'm not a member of the bird family .""","""Also keep in mind that some changes can happen quickly if you select for a quality that 's already present""",,
17876,4800,""".... Expelled frequently repeats that design-based explanations ( not to mention religious ones ) are `` forbidden `` by `` big science. `` It never explains why , however . Evolution and the rest of `` big science `` are just described as having an atheistic preference . HELLO ! ! THAT 'S WHY ! ! Then we see the standard dance of how innocent and objective science really is .""","""HOLY SH * T , marc . You 're doing EXACTLY WHAT THE REVIEW SAYS YOU PEOPLE DO . You 're making the claim without giving any explanation . '' OMG TEH SCEINCES IS ATHIESTIC BECUZ THEY JUST AER ! ! `` Thanks for making it extremely clear . Refuting a point by demonstrating it is n't very effective . Seriously , how disconnected from reality does one have to be in order to do something like this ?""",DISAGREE,"""the standard dance of how innocent and objective science really is .""","""You 're making the claim without giving any explanation .""",,
17882,4802,"""2 ) Larger budget for law enforcement for persecution of firearm offenders . No larger budget for law enforecemnt + unconstitutional gun laws on the same bill before Congress .""","""Smaller budget for law enforcment .. Stop the so-called war on drugs . Disband the DEA , the BATFE , Have the FBI do these things on a very minor scale . REPEAL LAWS FOR MALA IN PROHIBITA CRIMES ! Shift the responsibility to the individual . REALEASE NON VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS ! Liberty encompases all people in all passions even if we disprove of thier PERSONAL behavior .""",DISAGREE,"""Larger budget for law enforcement for persecution of firearm offenders .""","""Smaller budget for law enforcment ..""",,
17891,4803,"""Originally posted by voiceofreason Actually , guns are probably more dangerous per minute of exposure according to this article . http : //www.vahv.org/NEJM-ed.html""","""`` Probably `` is that your feelings on the subject or A scientifically supported statement .""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by voiceofreason Actually , guns are probably more dangerous per minute of exposure according to this article .""","""Probably `` is that your feelings on the subject or A scientifically supported statement .""",,
17896,4804,"""Since that would be me let 's go over my position and you tell me which parts are n't reasonable and why : 1 . I 've advocated registration of all handguns but not all guns . Leads to confiscation . 2 . I 've advocated mandatory secure storage for unattended firearms , like when you 're not home . Enforcement problem . 3 . I 've advocated photographing and fingerprinting for all handgun purchases .""","""What purpose does that serve with NCIS checks ?""",DISAGREE,"""I 've advocated mandatory secure storage for unattended firearms , like when you 're not home . Enforcement problem .""","""What purpose does that serve with NCIS checks ?""",,
17903,4804,"""Since that would be me let 's go over my position and you tell me which parts are n't reasonable and why : 1 . I 've advocated registration of all handguns but not all guns . Leads to confiscation . 2 . I 've advocated mandatory secure storage for unattended firearms , like when you 're not home . Enforcement problem . 3 . I 've advocated photographing and fingerprinting for all handgun purchases .""","""What purpose does that serve with NCIS checks ?""",DISAGREE,"""that would be me let 's go over my position and you tell me which parts are n't reasonable and why :""","""What purpose does that serve with NCIS checks ?""",,
17909,4805,"""If you were not lying you 'd have a argument . Rhodesian Man is dated between 200,000 and 125,000 years . Your other dates are off as well . ]""","""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000 http : //www.dentalgain.org/erect.html this says 300,000 http : //www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/walker/classes/anth121/121archaic.pdf # search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000""",DISAGREE,"""Rhodesian Man is dated between 200,000 and 125,000 years .""","""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000""",,
17907,4805,"""If you were not lying you 'd have a argument . Rhodesian Man is dated between 200,000 and 125,000 years . Your other dates are off as well . ]""","""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000 http : //www.dentalgain.org/erect.html this says 300,000 http : //www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/walker/classes/anth121/121archaic.pdf # search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000""",DISAGREE,"""If you were not lying you 'd have a argument . Rhodesian Man is dated between 200,000 and 125,000 years . Your other dates are off as well""","""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000 http : //www.dentalgain.org/erect.html this says 300,000 http : //www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/walker/classes/anth121/121archaic.pdf # search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000""",,
17904,4805,"""If you were not lying you 'd have a argument . Rhodesian Man is dated between 200,000 and 125,000 years . Your other dates are off as well . ]""","""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000 http : //www.dentalgain.org/erect.html this says 300,000 http : //www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/walker/classes/anth121/121archaic.pdf # search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000""",DISAGREE,"""If you were not lying you 'd have a argument .""","""# search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000""",,
17931,4807,"""Here in New Hampshire , not known as a bastion of liberalism , Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year . I am now covered under my partner 's state sponsored ( he 's a state worker ) health insurance . We are grateful .""","""And this is a terrific breakthrough . My partner and I are coveered by my company 's health insurance , and the state of Connecticut honors our Civil Union . That being said , I still have to pay tax on my partner 's health insurance as imputed income because the federal government refuses to acknowledge our union . So it has to be marriage . Full and without exception . Civil Unions are not enough when we are treated differently under the law .""",AGREE,"""New Hampshire Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year partner 's state sponsored ( he 's a state worker ) health insurance""","""terrific breakthrough company 's health insurance Connecticut Civil Union partner 's health insurance federal government refuses to acknowledge our union marriage""",,
17930,4807,"""Here in New Hampshire , not known as a bastion of liberalism , Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year . I am now covered under my partner 's state sponsored ( he 's a state worker ) health insurance . We are grateful .""","""And this is a terrific breakthrough . My partner and I are coveered by my company 's health insurance , and the state of Connecticut honors our Civil Union . That being said , I still have to pay tax on my partner 's health insurance as imputed income because the federal government refuses to acknowledge our union . So it has to be marriage . Full and without exception . Civil Unions are not enough when we are treated differently under the law .""",AGREE,"""Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year . I am now covered under my partner 's state sponsored ( he 's a state worker ) health insurance . We are grateful""","""So it has to be marriage . Full and without exception . Civil Unions are not enough when we are treated differently under the law .""",,
17926,4807,"""Here in New Hampshire , not known as a bastion of liberalism , Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year . I am now covered under my partner 's state sponsored ( he 's a state worker ) health insurance . We are grateful .""","""And this is a terrific breakthrough . My partner and I are coveered by my company 's health insurance , and the state of Connecticut honors our Civil Union . That being said , I still have to pay tax on my partner 's health insurance as imputed income because the federal government refuses to acknowledge our union . So it has to be marriage . Full and without exception . Civil Unions are not enough when we are treated differently under the law .""",AGREE,"""Here in New Hampshire , not known as a bastion of liberalism , Civil Unions passed the state legislature this year .""","""And this is a terrific breakthrough .""",,
17973,4813,"""( 2 ) Like Olson , almost 60 % of liberals believe that sexual orientation is determined at birth , but only 21 % of conservatives accept this . Most conservatives apparently cling to the discredited belief that sexual orientation is merely a choice of `` lifestyle. ``""","""Of course throughout the whole Genome Project , although they have searched high and low for the gay gene , and they know where to look , they ca n't seem to find it . But I would n't deny that some chemical screw up in the fetal stage of development might not impact the sexual proclivities in some human beings . But so what if that is true ? According to the bible , the sin nature affects all aspects of our lives from diseases to the aging process to unnatural proclivities to sins such as rape , murder , adultery , homosexuality , incest , susceptibility to sex , alcohol and drug addiction , and innumerable other activities of the flesh which declare that we are seriously flawed due to our fall from grace which was brought about by our original sin of rebellion against God by disobeying Him via Adam and Eve . So there exists no consensus at all which declares that the liberal/secular humanist interpretation of reality is in any way correct . But that does n't stop your side from claiming victory as the correct interpreters of the non-evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""60 % of liberals believe that sexual orientation is determined at birth conservatives apparently cling to the discredited belief that sexual orientation is merely a choice of `` lifestyle. ``""","""throughout the whole Genome Project , although they have searched high and low for the gay gene , and they know where to look , they ca n't seem to find it According to the bible , the sin nature affects all aspects of our lives from diseases to the aging process to unnatural proclivities to sins such as rape , murder , adultery , homosexuality , incest , susceptibility to sex , alcohol and drug addiction , and innumerable other activities of the flesh""",,
17972,4813,"""( 2 ) Like Olson , almost 60 % of liberals believe that sexual orientation is determined at birth , but only 21 % of conservatives accept this . Most conservatives apparently cling to the discredited belief that sexual orientation is merely a choice of `` lifestyle. ``""","""Of course throughout the whole Genome Project , although they have searched high and low for the gay gene , and they know where to look , they ca n't seem to find it . But I would n't deny that some chemical screw up in the fetal stage of development might not impact the sexual proclivities in some human beings . But so what if that is true ? According to the bible , the sin nature affects all aspects of our lives from diseases to the aging process to unnatural proclivities to sins such as rape , murder , adultery , homosexuality , incest , susceptibility to sex , alcohol and drug addiction , and innumerable other activities of the flesh which declare that we are seriously flawed due to our fall from grace which was brought about by our original sin of rebellion against God by disobeying Him via Adam and Eve . So there exists no consensus at all which declares that the liberal/secular humanist interpretation of reality is in any way correct . But that does n't stop your side from claiming victory as the correct interpreters of the non-evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""almost 60 % of liberals believe that sexual orientation is determined at birth , but only 21 % of conservatives accept this .""","""So there exists no consensus at all which declares that the liberal/secular humanist interpretation of reality is in any way correct""",,
17977,4814,"""Then for no apparent reason , Ian Tattersal in 1999 just pulled out the new date of 300,000 – 400,000 years out of thin air ! This , was obviously done for no other reason to give Rhodesian man adequate time to leave africa and move out into the rest of the world – and most importantly --  “ enough time to evolve ” into a homo spapien ! ! ! !""","""I 'd like to see some proof of this .""",DISAGREE,"""Then for no apparent reason , Ian Tattersal in 1999 just pulled out the new date of 300,000 – 400,000 years out of thin air ! This , was obviously done for no other reason to give Rhodesian man adequate time to leave africa and move out into the rest of the world – and most importantly --  enough time to evolve into a homo spapien ! ! ! !""","""I 'd like to see some proof of this .""",,
17983,4815,"""Yes , but if seen from space ( something the ancients could n't do ) it LOOKS like it hangs on nothing . Do n't worry , I do n't mind spelling it out for you .""","""...... now you 're just making stuff up .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , but if seen from space ( something the ancients could n't do ) it LOOKS like it hangs on""","""now you 're just making stuff up .""",,
17992,4817,"""This would explain why there are virtually no intermediate fossils .""","""In that case , your idea is already falsified , because there are too many intermediate fossils to count .""",DISAGREE,"""This would explain why there are virtually no intermediate fossils .""","""your idea is already falsified , because there are too many intermediate fossils to count .""",,
17996,4818,"""Another day , another shooting , in the good old gun-crazy US of A : Suspect kills self in Ohio State shooting , police say - CNN.com Workers ' Rights as sponsored by the NRA .""","""I am sure you meant `` mediate `` instead of `` medicate `` ? Or , is OSU a medical school ? Or , did you know the man was off his meds ? Exactly what does your rant mean other than you are so frustrated if you hear of a shooting in a Republic of over 3 million it drives you batty ? How many kids drowned in 5 gallon buckets between your two posts ? How many in car wrecks ? How many from blunt objects or knives ? Actually , death by guns is far down the list so why is it you go bananas when you hear of a shooting even if someone is killed or not ? You do understand there are justifiable shootings also ?""",DISAGREE,"""Another day , another shooting Ohio State shooting""","""OSU a medical school ? 3 million blunt objects or knives""",,
18004,4820,"""Why would you expect this ?""","""Because the usual source of anti-gun statements on the 18th and 19th century tended to come from those who sought to keep indians and blacks unarmed and `` in their place `` by depriving them of arms .""",DISAGREE,"""Why would you expect this ?""","""usual source of anti-gun statements keep indians and blacks unarmed""",,
18022,4826,"""Again , an emphasis on purpose is given by the following ...""","""Of course an explanation of artificial selection would talk about purpose . I 'm not sure how that is meaningful to the discussion . And of course , mention of eugenics is irrelevant to natural selection .""",DISAGREE,"""an emphasis on purpose is given by the following""","""Of course an explanation of artificial selection would talk about purpose . I 'm not sure how that is meaningful to the discussion . And of course , mention of eugenics is irrelevant to natural selection .""",,
18021,4826,"""Again , an emphasis on purpose is given by the following ...""","""Of course an explanation of artificial selection would talk about purpose . I 'm not sure how that is meaningful to the discussion . And of course , mention of eugenics is irrelevant to natural selection .""",DISAGREE,"""Again , an emphasis on purpose is given by the following""","""And of course , mention of eugenics is irrelevant to natural selection .""",,
18029,4830,"""Originally posted by fallingupwards i 'm not a big fan of massive defense spending , but it is government spending nonetheless . therefore , if you say that ww2 stopped the depression , then you are also saying that government spending can take us out of an economic slump . same thing applies if you think it was the New Deal""","""That is exactly what I am saying . By no means do I condone big government saving the economy by any means , defense spending or anything resembling a modern New Deal . What may suprise you here is that I am afraid of people with guns ! Especially a large well equiped military . A large well equiped military can have politcal power unto itself . It is a large credit to our professional officer corps that we do n't have a miitary coup every few years . I just wish the rest of our government had the same discipline . Then I could entertain the idea of socialism . When the state has political power , it never gives it back . Before I get flamed , I am not advocating a military junta as form of government for the United States .""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by fallingupwards i 'm not a big fan of massive defense spending , but it is government spending nonetheless""","""That is exactly what I am saying .""",,
18031,4831,"""* * Except that hypermutation is not something that happens to a 'cell ' , but happens to a collectivity of millions of inter-connected , inter-related cells , and that hypermutation in bacteria colonies is not 'stochastic ' , but 'heuristic ' , and you are just going to have to accept that those words are not synonyms .""","""Nope mutations happen to individual cells . And hypermutation takes place and appears to be controlled at the level of individual cells also . You need to stick to the facts here .""",DISAGREE,"""Except that hypermutation is not something that happens to a 'cell ' , but happens to a collectivity of millions of inter-connected""","""And hypermutation takes place and appears to be controlled at the level of individual cells also .""",,
18053,4835,"""Before this thread is finished I 'll be able to quote one of you subconsciously showing that you think the woman is invisible .""","""No , you probably wo n't be able to .""",DISAGREE,"""Before this thread is finished I 'll be able to quote one of you subconsciously showing that you think the woman is invisible .""","""No , you probably wo n't be able to .""",,
18060,4836,"""A woman 's rights over her body are n't absolute at all . When a woman who 's OD'ed is brought to a hospital , they take steps to save her ... they do n't just say `` She 's a druggie , she 's obviously sick of life , we 'll respect her right to die `` . Even if she recovers , and lucidly announces the same intent , they will take steps to stop her . It is because it is un-natural . It is un-natural to kill another human or to harm another human . People do it , but we do n't just accept it ... we try and put these people into a place where they 're not going to do it again . Further , if a woman smokes , her 'right to smoke ' might impinge upon my right to be in a smoke free environment . Why is it that restaurants ( at least in this country ) now have to be smoke free ? Why is my right greater than hers ? I might point out that the woman in question has every right to go down and file a DNR and a living will , and then the medical responders would be required by law to adhere to it . If she went and OD'ed again , and was going to die , they would have to let her die ... in effect she has gone through all neccessary legal steps to end her life . When a woman goes into a clinic to have an abortion , she also complies with the law , but for some reason , there will always be someone who does n't think she should be allowed the right to do so . Restaurants are not required to be smoke free . There are some local ordinances that may require it , but it is not a federal law . Workplaces , yes , restaurants , no . Walk into any diner in say , Cheyenne , WY to see it I 'm wrong . The reasons a restauranteur might decide to make his establishment non-smoking are numerous . The fact is , in most venues , the smoker is the minority , and so it only makes sense . My own opinion is that , while a smoker can last an hour or so for dinner without dying for a smoke , some vehement non-smokers could not last two minutes if they were within a half mile of a lit cigarette . ( you know the type , the suburban soccer mom who coughs on sight of a cigarette , the one who will traipse through a discount motel at midnight looking at 10 rooms because none of them `` smell right `` )""","""You are arguing from US law , I am arguing from Australian law . I think I needed to state this at the beginning . I have not heard of a US court case where a woman sued a hospital for bringing her back to life 'against her will ' . Though in America , anything is possible The oath of a doctor is to save a life . A woman who OD'ed would need to be saved .""",DISAGREE,"""A woman 's rights over her body are n't absolute at all `` Further , if a woman smokes , her 'right to smoke ' might impinge upon my right to be in a smoke free environment .""","""You are arguing from US law Though in America , anything is possible The oath of a doctor is to save a life .""",,
18063,4837,"""... That 's the point . It was n't designed , and it was evolved to be a carnivore . '' Ready to go `` , in the sense that living things are equipped with a means of making small errors which are used by natural selection to make new structures . ... The new ones evolved by mutation . Sometimes , we can even observe that happening , or trace the mutation back to a known ancestor . Would you like to learn about it ? ..""","""So you really do believe that organisms `` are equipped with a means of making small errors that allow natural selection `` turn a reptile to a bird and a monkey into a man ? To be `` equipped `` means there is a design feature . You are betraying your belief system . The errors can only be arbitrary and random and the organism is not equipped to function in any predetermined fashion . In the following example that you provided : What is the context of the word 'truncated ' ? The way I read it - it is talking about a truncated string of code or something . What was truncated ? ... * more than 100 LPL gene mutations have been identified , the majority of which cause loss of enzymatic function . In contrast to this , the naturally occurring LPLS447X variant is associated with increased lipolytic function and an anti-atherogenic lipid profile and can therefore be regarded as a gain-of-function mutation . This notion combined with the facts that 20 % of the general population carries this prematurely truncated LPL ... *""",DISAGREE,"""The new ones evolved by mutation . Sometimes , we can even observe that happening , or trace the mutation back to a known ancestor . Would you like to learn about it ? ..""","""This notion combined with the facts that 20 % of the general population carries this prematurely truncated LPL ... *""",,
18064,4837,"""... That 's the point . It was n't designed , and it was evolved to be a carnivore . '' Ready to go `` , in the sense that living things are equipped with a means of making small errors which are used by natural selection to make new structures . ... The new ones evolved by mutation . Sometimes , we can even observe that happening , or trace the mutation back to a known ancestor . Would you like to learn about it ? ..""","""So you really do believe that organisms `` are equipped with a means of making small errors that allow natural selection `` turn a reptile to a bird and a monkey into a man ? To be `` equipped `` means there is a design feature . You are betraying your belief system . The errors can only be arbitrary and random and the organism is not equipped to function in any predetermined fashion . In the following example that you provided : What is the context of the word 'truncated ' ? The way I read it - it is talking about a truncated string of code or something . What was truncated ? ... * more than 100 LPL gene mutations have been identified , the majority of which cause loss of enzymatic function . In contrast to this , the naturally occurring LPLS447X variant is associated with increased lipolytic function and an anti-atherogenic lipid profile and can therefore be regarded as a gain-of-function mutation . This notion combined with the facts that 20 % of the general population carries this prematurely truncated LPL ... *""",DISAGREE,"""The new ones evolved by mutation . Sometimes , we can even observe that happening""","""What is the context of the word 'truncated ' ? The way I read it - it is talking about a truncated string of code or something .""",,
18099,4843,"""just bumping this because it seems to have been overlooked ...""","""And perhaps you have overlooked the issue of abortion relating to crime . Who knows if were actually aborting future murderers ? Are n't you for crime prevention ?""",DISAGREE,"""just bumping this because it seems to have been overlooked ...""","""Who knows if were actually aborting future murderers ?""",,
18112,4845,"""Look , the use of certain words can be a tricky thing since words carry connotations . There are often multiple definitions of words since people use them in different ways . One of the list of definitions which I showed you of the word `` a human `` had two versions ( from the American Heritage Dictionary ) - one purely a scientific one and one defining a human as `` a person `` . In a scientific context , I and at least certain other pro-choice supporters would have no problem calling a fetus `` a human `` . But the abortion debate is not a scientific context is it ? It is a context about rights . There , the second definition of `` a person `` is what most of us have in mind and use . If you want a discussion about biology - i.e . homo sapiens vs other mammals , then one might use the term `` a human `` in its most broadest sense since it is being compared to other species . When the topic is not science but politics , the word `` a human `` carries a lot of other connotations that go beyond the scientific definition . We often speak of `` human rights `` , `` humanity `` , etc . The scientific definition does not and can not carry all of the underlying attached meanings behind those phrases . That is why the second dictionary definition of `` a person `` is much more relevant .""","""And we have been down this road . Person can mean a living human ... which the embryo is . So like human , you can have person mean the organism itself .""",DISAGREE,"""one purely a scientific one and one defining a human as `` a person ``""","""Person can mean a living human ... which the embryo is""",,
18145,4852,"""Wow that must really suck for those couples""","""Well the blame falls to the county for issuing illegal marriage licenses . Such is the price for acting outside the law .""",AGREE,"""Wow that must really suck for those couples""","""the blame falls to the county for issuing illegal marriage licenses""",,
18163,4855,"""There is evidence that we evolved in Africa , or that we evolved elsewhere . http : //www.chineseprehistory.org/beard.htm suggest man arose in China , not Africa ! * * http : //www.chineseprehistory.org//index.htm is the introduction to this site . It is evidence of the nature of evidence , wholly subjective ; that Chinese nationalism is behind these particular pieces of 'scientific evidence . ' This increases the over-all number of different forms of science there are .""","""BWWWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! Are you trying to be deceptive or is it that you really did n't understand what you read ? It 's really pretty simple . The first link does not suggest that man arose in China . It is a discussion of a primate fossil . While humans are primates , all primates are not necessarily humans . The article discusses a primate fossil , the oldest yet discovered . It does not claim that mankind arose in China . Your second link leads to a discussion of well known human fossils from the middle pleistocene or later . None of them are as old at the Australopithecine fossils of Africa . Maybe you did n't read you own links , but I do n't see any claim of the origin of mankind in China . The claim is that early hominids ( Homo erectus ) migrated to China from Africa . The oldest H. erectus fossils are found in Africa and it would therefore seem that that is the origin of the species .""",DISAGREE,"""There is evidence that we evolved in Africa""","""Are you trying to be deceptive Australopithecine fossils of Africa""",,
18168,4856,"""But I see two people involved here . Whether the women is better off or not is irrelevant to me . She has no right to kill the other just like you have no right to kill your neighbor . I 'm not for allowing decisions on everything and to be against `` choices `` is not a bad thing considering every law restricts choices .""","""But the embryo is a mere clump of flesh inside of a woman 's body . Science proves it . It has no sign of intelligence , it is merely cells at this stage . Therefore , it can not be referred to as another person , or neighbor , and is no where near comparable to a human . Choices that harm another should be illegal , but choices regarding your own personal liberty and freedom should be made by the individual . Not the government .""",DISAGREE,"""She has no right to kill the other just like you have no right to kill your neighbor""","""But the embryo is a mere clump of flesh inside of a woman 's body .""",,
18183,4858,"""We now know that human nucleotides exist in large linked clusters or blocks , ranging in size from 10,000 to a million . These linkage blocks are inherited as a single unit , and never break apart . This totally negates one of the most fundamental assumptions of the theorists – that each nucleotide can be viewed as an individually selectable unit . Dr. J.C. Sanford ( geneticist ) ( Of course this annihilates the whole theory as well . )""","""Ok , so are you saying that nucleotides are n't individually selectable ? Is that it ? Well , actually , they are . No , I 'm not saying that they are passed down separately or anything . Please do n't write your rebuttal before reading this post . What I 'm saying is that one nucleotide can make a difference in whether an organism survives or does not survive . For example , let 's consider penguins and the Galapagos . Now , it is a well known fact that the Galapagos were formed relatively recently . Before then , it is generally accepted that penguins were in Antarctica only . In Antarctica , penguins had plenty of feathers , enough to die when they progressed to the tropics . However , penguins also had variation in their feathers , so when a current brought them to the Galapagos , they quickly started to evolve . The few nucleotides that controlled feather thickness made a large difference to the survival of the penguins . In this case , they were important enough to make a difference easily . The DNA was inherited as a single unit , but some single units had single parts that made a difference .""",DISAGREE,"""We now know that human nucleotides exist in large linked""","""The DNA was inherited as a single unit ,""",,
18193,4860,"""And yet the US still has a much higher gun crime rate despite having a very high incarceration rate compared to other developed nations with a lot less gun violence . Get a clue .""","""80 % of all crimes are caused by one million violent gang members . Why are we allowing them to roam the streets freely ?""",DISAGREE,"""US still has a much higher gun crime rate very high incarceration rate""","""80 % of all crimes one million violent gang members .""",,
18199,4861,"""I 'm not necessarily calling this evolution .... I 'm just simply pointing out that acquired traits can be inherited . There is no other way to describe this other than Lamarckism .""","""Well , there certainly is here with these cats , because they 're not actually inheriting a trait ; the symptoms are being independently induced in all the cats , parents and offspring , by denying them all particular nutrients .""",DISAGREE,"""out that acquired traits can be inherited""","""Well , there certainly is here""",,
18195,4861,"""I 'm not necessarily calling this evolution .... I 'm just simply pointing out that acquired traits can be inherited . There is no other way to describe this other than Lamarckism .""","""Well , there certainly is here with these cats , because they 're not actually inheriting a trait ; the symptoms are being independently induced in all the cats , parents and offspring , by denying them all particular nutrients .""",DISAGREE,"""traits can be inherited .""","""'re not actually inheriting a trait ; the symptoms are being independently induced in all the cats , parents and offspring , by denying them all particular nutrients .""",,
18223,4873,"""If you say there is no such thing as a hierarchy of rights , or if you say the right to personal autonomy trumps the right to life , I point you to observe the situation in New Orleans . The relief efforts are concerned 1st with saving the living and 2nd with burying the dead .""","""This is poor example . Focusing on saving lives over burying the dead does n't do anything to trump personal autonomy .""",DISAGREE,"""If you say there is no such thing as a hierarchy of rights , or if you say the right to personal autonomy trumps the right to life , I point you to observe the situation in New Orleans .""","""This is poor example . Focusing on saving lives over burying the dead does""",,
18226,4874,"""Health ? You bring up an interesting point as far as the health aspect of what I said . What I meant was that the baby was not going to come out mentally handicapped .""","""But mentally handicapped children are worth less than the rest of us ? You have to explain why some zygotes are inviolate and others are able to be aborted morally .""",DISAGREE,"""What I meant was that the baby was not going to come out mentally handicapped .""","""But mentally handicapped children are worth less than the rest of us ?""",,
18225,4874,"""Health ? You bring up an interesting point as far as the health aspect of what I said . What I meant was that the baby was not going to come out mentally handicapped .""","""But mentally handicapped children are worth less than the rest of us ? You have to explain why some zygotes are inviolate and others are able to be aborted morally .""",DISAGREE,"""I meant was that the baby was not going to come out mentally handicapped .""","""But mentally handicapped children are worth less than the rest of us ? You have to explain why some zygotes are inviolate and others are able to be aborted morally .""",,
18230,4875,"""What is the fun in that ?""","""Seriously ? Well , I come here hoping for something resembling an intelligent discussion . Every once in a while I get one . Most of the time it 's just ramblings like Benjamin 's here . I was kind of hoping that by ignoring the trolls the stupid to interesting ratio might go down . Do you really enjoy the kind of `` debates `` that posts like this inevitably start ?""",DISAGREE,"""What is the fun in that ?""","""Do you really enjoy the kind of `` debates `` that posts like this inevitably start ?""",,
18244,4877,"""So you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed ? That b/c it has n't achieved consciousness you should kill it ?""","""Because of ? Hardly . I feel it does change the morality of it , but it is not the sole criteria .""",DISAGREE,"""So you are saying that people who do n't know anything should be killed ?""","""I feel it does change the morality of it""",,
18249,4878,"""Human beings are naturally chaotic and posses a strong sense of `` evil `` , so how do we stop self destruction ? The Bible . The bible was created for control , without the bible , without the promise of being rewarded for your kindness and brotherhood on earth , humans would have no reason to surpress their natural tendencies . If there was no bible and no promise of an after life why would a slave want to endure such a horrible life ? He would n't , he would kill himself or his master , but no , If he does good on earth and believes in the `` lord `` he will be rewarded . CONTROL . In the book the Lord of the Flies the young boys are stranded by themselves with no adults , they start off normal , as if there were adults still present . But , as time goes on , the lack of an authoritve figure begins to change their mental state . They become what humans naturally are , primal and sinister . The point is that without adults the children changed , became evil , so just as the children need control , who controls the adults ? God . The bible is nothing more than a book of morals meant to give those who have nothing to live for a reason to live . Why spend your life thanking someone for creating you , created you to worship him , when you can just live . Who cares who or what we came from , live in the present , think about the future .""","""So , are you saying that all athiest are evil and on the verge of self destruction ?""",DISAGREE,"""The bible was created for control , without the bible , without the promise of being rewarded for your kindness and brotherhood on earth , humans would have no reason to surpress their natural tendencies .""","""So , are you saying that all athiest are evil and on the verge of self destruction ?""",,
18286,4888,"""So I 'm supposed to believe that handguns are useful in battling tyranny but not having numerous amounts of the above weapons ? Shows how inconsistent people can be when it serves their agenda .""","""Your argument is moot . The Iraq population was n't heavily armed , only the Taliban and soldiers .""",DISAGREE,"""So I 'm supposed to believe Shows how inconsistent people can be""","""Your argument is moot . The Iraq population was n't heavily armed ,""",,
18289,4889,"""BB guns are n't useful when robbing a store as they 're too 'weak ' .""","""but they are still used , as long as the person itiis pointed at do n't know it is a bb gun it works too .""",DISAGREE,"""BB guns are n't useful when robbing a store as they 're too 'weak ' .""","""but they are still used , as long as the person itiis pointed at do n't know it is a bb gun it works too .""",,
18331,4903,"""I think he was trolling for fresh meat .""","""Matt and I go way back . We 've been oil and water for years .""",DISAGREE,"""I think he was trolling for fresh meat .""","""Matt and I go way back . We 've been oil and water for years .""",,
18360,4908,"""Ca n't choicers stop insulting the intelligence and capabilities of the people of the country and let them view the evidence and decide for themselves whether abortion harms women 's health , and if it does , whether it ought to be permitted ?""","""No . I will never allow `` the people of the country `` to tell me what is best for my my life or my health . To quote Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice . '' I am only resolved to act in that manner , which will , in my own opinion , constitute my happiness , without reference to you , or to any person so wholly unconnected with me. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Ca n't choicers stop insulting the intelligence and capabilities of the people of the country""","""I will never allow `` the people of the country `` to tell me what is best for my my life or my health .""",,
18366,4909,"""Why did gay marriage get this special treatment ?""","""Because activist judges in Mass made law instead of interpreting it and rammed it down the throats of the people and you can pretty much thank them for getting President Bush reelected ...........""",DISAGREE,"""Why did gay marriage get this special treatment ?""","""Because activist judges in Mass made law instead of interpreting it and rammed it down the throats of the people and you can pretty much thank them for getting President Bush reelected""",,
18388,4912,"""And what is so special about religion that give people special rights for a choice ? I say no special rights for religion .""","""so you think it would be ok to fire people for being secular atheists ?""",DISAGREE,"""And what is so special about religion that give people special rights for a choice ?""","""so you think it would be ok to fire people for being secular atheists ?""",,
18385,4912,"""And what is so special about religion that give people special rights for a choice ? I say no special rights for religion .""","""so you think it would be ok to fire people for being secular atheists ?""",DISAGREE,"""And what is so special about religion that give people special rights for a choice ? I say no special rights for religion .""","""so you think it would be ok to fire people for being secular atheists ?""",,
18393,4913,"""This is a matter that i hold very close to my heart just wondered what everyone elses opinion is of the barbaric way these baby 's are treated even after death . http : //www.ashevilletribune.com/in_their_words.htm""","""This is not what hospitals do with biomedical waste . They incinerate it . If these people are really doing this I can `` t imagine who the buyer is , and they are breaking many many laws .""",DISAGREE,"""just wondered what everyone elses opinion is of the barbaric way these baby 's are treated even after death .""","""This is not what hospitals do with biomedical waste . They incinerate it .""",,
18407,4915,"""This sort of attitude being one of the reasons I have become more pro-choice .""","""You should make opinions basedon God , not the way other people act . People can be right and still have annoying attitude .""",DISAGREE,"""This sort of attitude being one of the reasons I have become more pro-choice .""","""You should make opinions basedon God , not the way other people act .""",,
18419,4917,"""The Daily Beacon There 's absolutely no way in hell this could be legal in any sense . That California school got * * * * * slapped for expelling a student who had a gun off campus , beyond the jurisdictional reach of the school . So how can this school believe they can get away with such an insane policy ?""","""You mean a redneck U is banning guns ? XXX ?""",DISAGREE,"""That California school got * * * * * slapped for expelling a student who had a gun off campus , beyond the jurisdictional reach of the school""","""You mean a redneck U is banning guns""",,
18434,4920,"""EDIT : I reread , and it seems you are correct . Creationism isn ’ t a theory at all ! On one of my most generous days , I might call it a set of poor hypotheses . It really should be classified as a myth While it is true that science and religion are not generally compatible , because science is based on evidence supporting a hypothesis , which will eventually become a theory after significant support , and a law after virtually proven true ( but never actually proven ) , while religion is a series of stories to try to explain the universe in the simplest way possible ( god did it ) . Science is meant to expand and change over time until the theory of everything is reached . Religion assumes they already have that theory ( god did it ) . Evolution is no mo0re anti-religion than science itself , except that the conflict manifests itself here .""","""So if a story in the bible is proven to be true , like the fact that there is enough water in the ice caps , and the atmosphere to cover the highest mountains , then these `` myths `` would become less rediculous ? Or would there be a logical explanation other than a higher life form did it ? Mayabe a crazy man built a big boat at the right time and happened to have two of each animal at the time ? But that would be crazy talk . Wouldnt it ?""",DISAGREE,"""I reread , and it seems you are correct . Creationism isn ’ t a theory at all ! On one of my most generous days , I might call it a set of poor hypotheses . It really should be classified as a myth While it is true that science and religion are not generally compatible""","""So if a story in the bible is proven to be true , like the fact that there is enough water in the ice caps , and the atmosphere to cover the highest mountains , then these `` myths `` would become less rediculous ?""",,
18443,4921,"""Crime has been dropping nationwide in recent years . Whoopdee do . There are some interesting statistics at http : //www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/s176c.html For example : Face it . Gun control is nonsensical . NOBODY has EVER managed to show any benifit from it . At best , it has no effect on crime and at worst it increases it .""","""So it 's just a coincidence that nations that ban guns like England have much lower levels of gun violence and murder than the US ? That 's kind of hard to believe . NYC was so effective in reducing crime that the mayor of NYC was invited to Mexico City to help them reduce crime there . So I do n't think the possibility that gun control has been effective in cities like NYC can be ruled out . You may be confusing cause and effect . You would n't walk into a hospital and declare that because there are a lot of sick people in a hospital that hospitals do n't help people get better . That website starts off with the rumor that there are over 20,000 gun laws . Although this claim has been repeated numerous times by anti gun-control activists , has anybody been able to verify this claim ? A recent study that counted the number of gun laws found `` only 300 relevant federal and state laws regarding the manufacture , design , sale , purchase , or possession of guns. `` http : //releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp ? id=12007 Another reason not to put too must trust in biased websites that cherry pick the facts .""",DISAGREE,"""Gun control is nonsensical . NOBODY has EVER managed to show any benifit from it . At best , it has no effect on crime and at worst it increases it .""","""You may be confusing cause and effect . You would n't walk into a hospital and declare that because there are a lot of sick people in a hospital that hospitals do n't help people get better ``""",,
18444,4929,"""I 've been thinking this over and I 've come to the conclusion that ballistic `` fingerprinting `` is the stupidest thing I have ever heard . As a crime fighting tool and especially a prosecutorial tool , it 's worth would be questionable and actually extremely damaging . The characteristics recorded ; land and grooves ( rifling ) on the projectile , breech face marks , firing pin indent and extractor marks on the spent cartridge case , could all be corrupted with the expenditure of about 20 minutes of easy work with a small file and/or a new barrel . For some of the more popular handguns , we 're talking $ 20 for a new barrel . Imagine the enterprising criminal with an extra $ 200.00 in his pocket . He could buy replacement barrels for a few of the more popular handguns and have a lucrative swapping out service . He trades out the first barrel and places the one now `` in hand `` in the next gun . No barrels need to be destroyed , all that needs to be done to defeat the system is have discrepancies between original manufacturer 's supplied projectile on record for a certain serial number gun and the crime scene recovered projectile . '' Lieutenant , this bullet the coroner recovered from Virgil 's head goes with serial number xw34t67 . The gun we found under Harry 's mattress , which we can prove killed Virgil , is number jy57p19 . What good does that do us ? `` Realistically , at that point would any further detective manhours be expended trying to figure out how this happened ? The barrels were swapped , any evidence as far as ballistic `` fingerprinting `` is concerned , is corrupted . Move on . . . How about the questions raised for the prosecution if say Harry does go to trial for shooting Virgil with only two marks matching out of four ? Let 's see , was the ejector swapped out too ? Maybe it 's reloaded ammo , it 's got three ejector marks on it , which firing was incidental to the criminal act ? Another important question ; would such a partial , 2 out of 4 or otherwise inconclusive match , ( which probably would not be offered as evidence or even admissible in court ) , be accepted as probable cause for a search or an arrest warrant ? The next , even more important question is : If the bullets ( original , supplied by manufacturer and the recovered crime scene bullet ) do n't match , does n't that open a Pandora 's Box of claims of `` I 'm being framed ! '' ? ? ? The defendant could claim that it was the police , not him , that swapped barrels . Harry says , `` the cops got a sample bullet from my gun and the bullet that done killed Virgil do n't match ! They put a different barrel in my gun that matches the bullet they said was in Virgil 's noggin `` The state would be providing four pieces of potentially ironclad exculpatory evidence for the defendant ! ( again , land and grooves on the projectile and breech face marks , firing pin indent and extractor marks on the spent cartridge case ) The defense will of course enter into evidence a STATE SEALED document attesting that the following data represents the official -- exclude all others -- `` ballistic fingerprint `` for Harry 's gun , S/N-jy57p19 . The problem for the authorities is , while they can prove that Harry 's gun killed Virgil , ( using standard forensic ballistics ) that fact does not matter anymore because the crime scene bullet , the one in Virgil 's noggin , matches a different gun , not placed in evidence by the prosecution and nowhere to be found . . . This would create a new level to the prosecutor 's burden of proof , now he has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that THIS defendant also swapped the barrel and corrupted other `` fingerprints `` for his weapon in addition to actually firing the weapon that killed the victim . I think that more times than not , this will be an impossible additional hurdle to jump and the outcome of that will be allot of criminals will go free . This `` new `` science of ballistic `` fingerprinting `` would in essence destroy the well established and deserved good reputation of forensic ballistics . I think this proposal will work directly against law enforcement and in the end , help criminals . Debate questions : Does this ballistic fingerprint proposal , with all the inherent questions it raises , realistically help or hurt the police and prosecutors ? Does it increase or lessen the hours needed to solidify a case ? Can anyone prove to me that criminals will not go free using a corrupted ballistic `` fingerprint `` as their legal leverage ?""","""That crime fighting tool senario you just described is REALLY REALLY spooky . They way our justice system works is : 1 ) crime is commited 2 ) suspects are considered 3 ) evidence against one suspect builds and is arrested 4 ) suspect is given a fair trial with all the evidence present to a judge and jurry . In our system of justice , collection of evidence is PROHIBITED by the 4th Amendment without probable cause . There is no crime , thus no exuse to collect evidence . Citizens are also protected by giving any evidence against thier will by the 5th Amendment . This collected evidence will be used against suspects without thier permission . The crime fighting tool you just described violates 2 rights in one sweep . That is a very scary power given to police .""",AGREE,"""As a crime fighting tool and especially a prosecutorial tool , it 's worth would be questionable and actually""","""evidence against one suspect builds and is arrested 4 ) suspect is given a fair trial with all the evidence present to a judge and jurry .""",,
18445,4929,"""I 've been thinking this over and I 've come to the conclusion that ballistic `` fingerprinting `` is the stupidest thing I have ever heard . As a crime fighting tool and especially a prosecutorial tool , it 's worth would be questionable and actually extremely damaging . The characteristics recorded ; land and grooves ( rifling ) on the projectile , breech face marks , firing pin indent and extractor marks on the spent cartridge case , could all be corrupted with the expenditure of about 20 minutes of easy work with a small file and/or a new barrel . For some of the more popular handguns , we 're talking $ 20 for a new barrel . Imagine the enterprising criminal with an extra $ 200.00 in his pocket . He could buy replacement barrels for a few of the more popular handguns and have a lucrative swapping out service . He trades out the first barrel and places the one now `` in hand `` in the next gun . No barrels need to be destroyed , all that needs to be done to defeat the system is have discrepancies between original manufacturer 's supplied projectile on record for a certain serial number gun and the crime scene recovered projectile . '' Lieutenant , this bullet the coroner recovered from Virgil 's head goes with serial number xw34t67 . The gun we found under Harry 's mattress , which we can prove killed Virgil , is number jy57p19 . What good does that do us ? `` Realistically , at that point would any further detective manhours be expended trying to figure out how this happened ? The barrels were swapped , any evidence as far as ballistic `` fingerprinting `` is concerned , is corrupted . Move on . . . How about the questions raised for the prosecution if say Harry does go to trial for shooting Virgil with only two marks matching out of four ? Let 's see , was the ejector swapped out too ? Maybe it 's reloaded ammo , it 's got three ejector marks on it , which firing was incidental to the criminal act ? Another important question ; would such a partial , 2 out of 4 or otherwise inconclusive match , ( which probably would not be offered as evidence or even admissible in court ) , be accepted as probable cause for a search or an arrest warrant ? The next , even more important question is : If the bullets ( original , supplied by manufacturer and the recovered crime scene bullet ) do n't match , does n't that open a Pandora 's Box of claims of `` I 'm being framed ! '' ? ? ? The defendant could claim that it was the police , not him , that swapped barrels . Harry says , `` the cops got a sample bullet from my gun and the bullet that done killed Virgil do n't match ! They put a different barrel in my gun that matches the bullet they said was in Virgil 's noggin `` The state would be providing four pieces of potentially ironclad exculpatory evidence for the defendant ! ( again , land and grooves on the projectile and breech face marks , firing pin indent and extractor marks on the spent cartridge case ) The defense will of course enter into evidence a STATE SEALED document attesting that the following data represents the official -- exclude all others -- `` ballistic fingerprint `` for Harry 's gun , S/N-jy57p19 . The problem for the authorities is , while they can prove that Harry 's gun killed Virgil , ( using standard forensic ballistics ) that fact does not matter anymore because the crime scene bullet , the one in Virgil 's noggin , matches a different gun , not placed in evidence by the prosecution and nowhere to be found . . . This would create a new level to the prosecutor 's burden of proof , now he has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that THIS defendant also swapped the barrel and corrupted other `` fingerprints `` for his weapon in addition to actually firing the weapon that killed the victim . I think that more times than not , this will be an impossible additional hurdle to jump and the outcome of that will be allot of criminals will go free . This `` new `` science of ballistic `` fingerprinting `` would in essence destroy the well established and deserved good reputation of forensic ballistics . I think this proposal will work directly against law enforcement and in the end , help criminals . Debate questions : Does this ballistic fingerprint proposal , with all the inherent questions it raises , realistically help or hurt the police and prosecutors ? Does it increase or lessen the hours needed to solidify a case ? Can anyone prove to me that criminals will not go free using a corrupted ballistic `` fingerprint `` as their legal leverage ?""","""That crime fighting tool senario you just described is REALLY REALLY spooky . They way our justice system works is : 1 ) crime is commited 2 ) suspects are considered 3 ) evidence against one suspect builds and is arrested 4 ) suspect is given a fair trial with all the evidence present to a judge and jurry . In our system of justice , collection of evidence is PROHIBITED by the 4th Amendment without probable cause . There is no crime , thus no exuse to collect evidence . Citizens are also protected by giving any evidence against thier will by the 5th Amendment . This collected evidence will be used against suspects without thier permission . The crime fighting tool you just described violates 2 rights in one sweep . That is a very scary power given to police .""",AGREE,"""thinking this over defense will of course enter into evidence""","""REALLY REALLY spooky evidence against one suspect builds""",,
18448,4930,"""If only McCain were anywhere near his equal , it might be a contest .""","""You are a known anti-gun supporter , should we really be surprised at your presidential choice . Funny thing is , you are going to get screwed just like the rest of us if Obama wins . He might try to take our guns away , but your rights that are important to you wont be very far behind .""",DISAGREE,"""McCain his equal , it might be a contest .""","""anti-gun supporter , surprised at your presidential choice""",,
18449,4930,"""If only McCain were anywhere near his equal , it might be a contest .""","""You are a known anti-gun supporter , should we really be surprised at your presidential choice . Funny thing is , you are going to get screwed just like the rest of us if Obama wins . He might try to take our guns away , but your rights that are important to you wont be very far behind .""",DISAGREE,"""If only McCain were anywhere near his equal , it might be a contest .""","""Funny thing is , you are going to get screwed just like the rest of us if Obama wins .""",,
18477,4936,"""PH , is this wher you got your rabid `` UN hates guns `` rhetoric ? Lets look at what is being attacked here : I can honestly say I fully support that goal . Hopefully , we can ALL agree that illegal arms trading should be dealt with .""","""What part of .. 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . ' are you having trouble with ? Only a gullible fool , such as yourself , would lend blind allegiance , and obedience , to a 'world ' body that seeks to usurp the sovereignty of individual nations . That 's why you are indeed a LIBERAL .""",DISAGREE,"""is this wher you got your rabid `` UN hates guns `` rhetoric ?""","""What part of .. 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . ' are you having trouble with ? Only a gullible fool , such as yourself , would lend blind allegiance , and obedience , to a 'world ' body that seeks to usurp the sovereignty of individual nations .""",,
18473,4936,"""PH , is this wher you got your rabid `` UN hates guns `` rhetoric ? Lets look at what is being attacked here : I can honestly say I fully support that goal . Hopefully , we can ALL agree that illegal arms trading should be dealt with .""","""What part of .. 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . ' are you having trouble with ? Only a gullible fool , such as yourself , would lend blind allegiance , and obedience , to a 'world ' body that seeks to usurp the sovereignty of individual nations . That 's why you are indeed a LIBERAL .""",DISAGREE,"""we can ALL agree that illegal arms trading should be dealt with .""","""not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . '""",,
18484,4938,"""Your arguing apples and oranges . There are laws already on the books , prior to the unfunded mandate statute , that prohibit discrimination in employment . Gays partners have no legal status today , so the granting of legal status to them will result in increased expenditures by business .""","""But again , the cost is worth it , just as it is with straight couples , as it will benefit gay couples in the same ways . It will mean better employee health and job satisfaction and increased productivity for the gay employees just as it will for the straight employees .""",DISAGREE,"""Your arguing apples and oranges . There are laws already on the books , prior to the unfunded mandate statute""","""But again , the cost is worth it , just as it is with straight couples , as it will benefit gay couples in the same ways .""",,
18499,4940,"""Evolution : Ride a monkey into Hell .""","""But we were n't discussing either monkies or hell . One can only wonder at your thought processes that makes such irrelevant and disconnected thoughts pop up .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution :""","""But we were n't discussing""",,
18511,4942,"""No they did n't Mutz , the animals came to them 2 by 2 . Many of the animals were young so they weighed less than full grown animals , they did n't get pregnant and make more animals during the journey and they consumed less food because of their size . I 'm surprised you did n't know that Mutz .""","""This explains it Archangel http : //www.landoverbaptist.org/news0 ... yingdinos.html I do not understand how the marsupials and monotremes either suvived the flood or if they where taken on ark how they got back over 10000 miles to Australia across the ocean . Unless noah dropped them off . That must have been some powerful motor he had on the arc to beable to travel over 10000 miles and back in 40 days . Then there are the tortasis , lizards and birds on the galapagos , what about the turkeys , and buffalos in north america ? Unless ofcorse you now want to make the argument that God saved the animals in certain places or there was more then one noah . One noah on each continent . Then again that is not biblical is it ?""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm surprised you did n't know that""","""This explains it""",,
18513,4942,"""No they did n't Mutz , the animals came to them 2 by 2 . Many of the animals were young so they weighed less than full grown animals , they did n't get pregnant and make more animals during the journey and they consumed less food because of their size . I 'm surprised you did n't know that Mutz .""","""This explains it Archangel http : //www.landoverbaptist.org/news0 ... yingdinos.html I do not understand how the marsupials and monotremes either suvived the flood or if they where taken on ark how they got back over 10000 miles to Australia across the ocean . Unless noah dropped them off . That must have been some powerful motor he had on the arc to beable to travel over 10000 miles and back in 40 days . Then there are the tortasis , lizards and birds on the galapagos , what about the turkeys , and buffalos in north america ? Unless ofcorse you now want to make the argument that God saved the animals in certain places or there was more then one noah . One noah on each continent . Then again that is not biblical is it ?""",DISAGREE,"""Many of the animals were young so they weighed less than full grown animals , they did n't get pregnant and make more animals during the journey and they consumed less food because of their size .""","""Unless ofcorse you now want to make the argument that God saved the animals in certain places or there was more then one noah . One noah on each continent . Then again that is not biblical is it ?""",,
18538,4950,"""The only reason this bill has advanced is because the NRA has threatened to withhold endorsements from conservative Democrats in tough races this year . http : //www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn ... 090701982.html""","""And why should I care ?""",DISAGREE,"""The only reason this bill has advanced is because the NRA has threatened""","""And why should I care ?""",,
18537,4950,"""The only reason this bill has advanced is because the NRA has threatened to withhold endorsements from conservative Democrats in tough races this year . http : //www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn ... 090701982.html""","""And why should I care ?""",DISAGREE,"""The only reason this bill has advanced is because the NRA has threatened to withhold endorsements""","""And why should I care ?""",,
18551,4952,"""Good , we both agree then that the issue of legality concerning elective abortions is a little more complex than just the simple matter of a persons right to make a `` choice. ``""","""The right to have a choice IS a legal issue . We do n't live in russia Women in this country have the same rights as men .""",DISAGREE,"""Good , we both agree then that the issue of legality concerning elective abortions""","""We do n't live in russia Women in this country have the same rights as men .""",,
18552,4952,"""Good , we both agree then that the issue of legality concerning elective abortions is a little more complex than just the simple matter of a persons right to make a `` choice. ``""","""The right to have a choice IS a legal issue . We do n't live in russia Women in this country have the same rights as men .""",DISAGREE,"""issue of legality concerning elective abortions""","""Women in this country have the same rights as men .""",,
18555,4953,"""We all agree that God is omnipotent , that is all-powerful . Since when did all-powerful come to mean instantaneous ? Would it in any way `` weaken `` God for this creation to have followed a logical creative path of evolution ?""","""Yes it would have , because it would imply that God needed help to create us .""",DISAGREE,"""God for this creation to have followed a logical creative path of evolution ?""","""Yes it would have , because it would imply that God needed help to create us .""",,
18563,4954,"""In other words youre happier because the old man did something criminal and broke the law . Admit it .""","""New York mayor Bloomberg broke the law by sending undercover agents on sting operations outside of his state of jurisdiction to get the evidence necessary to sue 19 out of state licensed firearms dealers . What he did was illegal , and the ATF threatened to tear him a new one if he did n't stop it . Bloomberg broke the law for his own personal crusade . Are you happy about that ? Or are you going to take the chicken way out and claim that a public official must be allowed to break the law to address crime in his territory ?""",AGREE,"""something criminal and broke the law .""","""New York mayor Bloomberg broke the law by sending undercover agents on sting operations outside of his state of jurisdiction to get the evidence necessary to sue 19 out of state licensed firearms dealers .""",,
18567,4955,"""Evolutionist keep chanting that the `` god of the gaps `` is used to fill in where `` science `` can not .""","""Too broad a generalization . I 'm sure most people who believe in evolution do n't chant `` god of the gaps `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionist keep chanting that the `` god of the gaps""","""I 'm sure most people who believe in evolution do n't chant `` god of the gaps `` .""",,
18570,4955,"""Evolutionist keep chanting that the `` god of the gaps `` is used to fill in where `` science `` can not .""","""Too broad a generalization . I 'm sure most people who believe in evolution do n't chant `` god of the gaps `` .""",DISAGREE,"""god of the gaps `` is used to fill in where `` science ``""","""who believe in evolution do n't chant `` god of the gaps ``""",,
18584,4958,"""`` There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state ( or Federal ) against being murdered by criminals or madmen . It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment , or , we suppose , any other provision of the Constitution . The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties : it tells the state ( gov't ) to let people alone ; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services , even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order `` ( Bowers v. DeVito , U.S. Court of Appeals , Seventh Circuit , 686F.2d 616 [ 1982 ] ) .""","""Aye there 's the rub !""",DISAGREE,"""The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties""","""Aye there 's the rub !""",,
18595,4960,"""The people did n't vote , so the winning streak still stands . Besides , the majority on that one are morally-challenged , spiritually-stunted imbeciles .""","""Oh please ... You just refuse to acknowledge anything of a victory for LGBT people .""",DISAGREE,"""The people did n't vote , so the winning streak still stands .""","""You just refuse to acknowledge anything of a victory for LGBT people .""",,
18602,4962,"""I was about to take a sip of coffee when I read that ! Would have lost the keyboard and monitor ! ! !""","""Sarge you getten up with the birds again ? or do old habits just die hard ? 3:30 every morning here .""",DISAGREE,"""I was about to take a sip of coffee when I read that !""","""do old habits just die hard ? 3:30 every morning here .""",,
18610,4963,"""For the record , I do not actually agree with such stringent measures myself . But I do n't think your argument really holds water .""","""Thats nice ... Care to make an argument , or are you just op-eding my viewpoints ?""",DISAGREE,"""For the record , I do not actually agree with such stringent measures myself . But I do n't think your argument really holds water .""","""Thats nice ... Care to make an argument , or are you just op-eding my viewpoints ?""",,
18652,4974,"""Personally , I see no problem with this , and it has more or less been our unofficial policy for years around here . There are holes in the theory of evolution , and there are segments of it that are mostly conjecture .""","""Nonsense . Name the holes and what parts are conjecture ? The parts that are conjecture are never , ever taught in a high school biology class . There is n't time . Only major points are covered about which there is no doubt .""",DISAGREE,"""I see no problem with this , and it has more or less been our unofficial policy for years around here""","""There is n't time . Only major points are covered about which there is no doubt .""",,
18666,4977,"""But in all reality .. a baby is no more different at 2 months old than an embryo ...""","""But in all reality an embryo is inside a uterus , living solely through a placenta and a two month old baby is not . That is a significant difference . One may argue how significant , but it is silly to say the only difference is time .""",DISAGREE,"""But in all reality .. a baby is no more different at 2 months old than an embryo""","""But in all reality an embryo is inside a uterus""",,
18674,4979,"""Wars still constitute competition within the species .""","""The question is : To what degree do wars cull out particular genes as opposed to ideas ? Another thing to consider is not who is getting killed , but who is being born . Unless , something is done about the niche , it will just get filled again by whoever was decimated . Compare : Germans ( hypothetically ) settling in the Ukraine versus the US bombing of Hiroshima ( which was not then settled by the US ) . Consistent genetic pressure is really key .""",DISAGREE,"""constitute competition within the species .""","""Consistent genetic pressure is really key .""",,
18691,4981,"""Your attitude is wrong .""","""Now there is some persuasive debating .""",DISAGREE,"""Your attitude is wrong""","""there is some persuasive debating""",,
18694,4982,"""BTW , your explanation above which I have posted in its entirety is nothing more than self indulgent gibberish . Religion and Cults - Animism Do IDers actually want Intelligent Design taught in schools ?""","""And that refutes what I said ..... How ? Come up with your own original material for a change .""",DISAGREE,"""your explanation above which I have posted in its entirety is nothing more than self indulgent gibberish . Religion and Cults - Animism Do IDers actually want Intelligent Design taught in schools""","""And that refutes what I said How ? Come up with your own original material for a change .""",,
18697,4982,"""BTW , your explanation above which I have posted in its entirety is nothing more than self indulgent gibberish . Religion and Cults - Animism Do IDers actually want Intelligent Design taught in schools ?""","""And that refutes what I said ..... How ? Come up with your own original material for a change .""",DISAGREE,"""I have posted in its entirety is nothing more than self indulgent gibberish .""","""that refutes what I said ..... How ?""",,
18716,4986,"""Well this was easy !""","""And this is merely another piece of evidence that Sport 's a XXXXX .""",DISAGREE,"""this was easy""","""another piece of evidence""",,
18734,4991,"""My point is that - the lizard was designed to survive in a neighborhood where eating leaves , was its best chance of survival .""","""That 's the point . It was n't designed , and it was evolved to be a carnivore .""",DISAGREE,"""the lizard was designed to survive in a neighborhood eating leaves , was its best chance of survival .""","""It was n't designed , it was evolved to be a carnivore .""",,
18741,4999,"""True , and the confusion was my bad , as explained already . However , the fact of revertant mutation in eusocial bacteria colonies , as demonstrated by Ames and by Cairns , still shoots great big holes in the darwinist assumptions arising out of your old war-horses , Luria & amp ; Delbruck '43 , and its `` clone `` , Lederberg and Lederberg '52 .""","""Well , no , it does n't . That 's sort of the point of the article I linked to . No organismic response , no hypermutable state ( apart from one coincidentally arising in a minority of the adaptive population ) , no EAM . L & amp ; D , as an experiment , had its limitations , namely the lethality of the selective environment . What the article I linked to demonstrates is that Cairns & amp ; Foster also has limitations . Most of the time , it should be remembered , the C & amp ; F methodology yields the same results as L & amp ; D ; the circumstances yielding the anomalous results that were a temporary shot-in-the-arm for Lamarckism were very particular . The bacteria had to possess a leaky allele that still operated at a low efficiency , and that functionality had to be just barely inhibited by scavenger cells . C & amp ; F still did something useful : it highlighted the potential importance of amplification mutagenesis , where genes that do a slightly useful job accumulate under selection , increasing the chances that a more successful variant of the gene will arise within any given population . I 'll check out the other experiment you mention ; thanks for clearing that up .""",DISAGREE,"""the confusion was my bad mutation in eusocial bacteria colonies""","""sort of the point of the article temporary shot-in-the-arm""",,
18753,5002,"""And please answer the question about since when did religion and God for that matter only include Abrahamic beliefs .""","""and this was my answer""",DISAGREE,"""please answer the question""","""this was my answer""",,
18760,5004,"""Science has actually shown that we are very genetically similar to black people , chinese people . While science has also shown that you or me are very different than the embryo .""","""Really , can you show me this science ? You are just as genetically similiar to a white person as you are to an embryo .""",DISAGREE,"""science has also shown that you or me are very different than the embryo .""","""You are just as genetically similiar to a white person as you are to an embryo .""",,
18790,5013,"""You crack me up .""","""I see ... a lack of substance on your behalf . Anything to fill the void after a rather damning debunk on the thread I suppose . A very typical tactic on your behalf and I would not expect more .""",DISAGREE,"""You crack me up .""","""I see ... a lack of substance on your behalf""",,
18816,5018,"""Would you agree if the death penalty was banned ?""","""No , for the reasons stated above and one more . Some people do n't deserve to live .... like SH , for example .""",DISAGREE,"""you agree if the death penalty was banned ?""","""No , Some people do n't deserve to live""",,
18824,5020,"""This reality indeed flips all of biology and ToE on its head .""","""Explain why .""",DISAGREE,"""This reality indeed flips all of biology and ToE on its head .""","""Explain why .""",,
18839,5022,"""I bet the shot men get out of the hospital before those women do and with less visible damage . Or mental either for that matter . Know how many lives are lost from medical mistakes each year ?""","""That is where I was going Doc . Twice as many went to the hospital in NJ because criminals do what criminals do .""",AGREE,"""shot men hospital women do""","""went to the hospital because criminals do""",,
18837,5022,"""I bet the shot men get out of the hospital before those women do and with less visible damage . Or mental either for that matter . Know how many lives are lost from medical mistakes each year ?""","""That is where I was going Doc . Twice as many went to the hospital in NJ because criminals do what criminals do .""",AGREE,"""Or mental either for that matter . Know how many lives are lost from medical mistakes each year ?""","""Twice as many went to the hospital in NJ because criminals do what criminals do .""",,
18843,5023,"""If the christianists are dead set against we gay people getting married then I say lets let them keep marriage . Lets go on the attack and attempt to destroy christainist hetero marriages . We gay men need to suduce the men and the lesbians need to suduce the women . Lets see if we can drive those divorce rates up to 60 % , 75 % , or even 90 % .""","""Really Matt . I guess you were trying to be funny or ironic , but I do n't find it so . I sympathize with your point , of course , but your content comes off a little , well ... nuts . You come off sounding more like Archy than you know . Sorry , that 's a terrible thing to say to someone , but ... Simply put , I do n't see how this adds any thought to the discussion .""",DISAGREE,"""Lets go on the attack and attempt to destroy christainist hetero marriages Lets see if we can drive those divorce rates up to 60 % , 75 % , or even 90 % .""","""Really Matt . I guess you were trying to be funny or ironic , but I do n't find it so .""",,
18858,5026,"""Christanity is not synonymous with religion or a belief in a diety .""","""And evolution is n't atheistic ! ! Do you ever wonder how these peoples ' minds work , SS ? ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""Christanity is not synonymous with religion or a belief in a diety .""","""And evolution is n't atheistic ! ! Do you ever wonder how these peoples ' minds work , SS ? ? ? ?""",,
18862,5026,"""Christanity is not synonymous with religion or a belief in a diety .""","""And evolution is n't atheistic ! ! Do you ever wonder how these peoples ' minds work , SS ? ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""Christanity is not belief in a diety""","""evolution is n't atheistic !""",,
18884,5031,"""Not one person who responded to this thread actually read what I wrote in the op . I was very specific on whose marriages should be targeted . Since the christinists are the ones who want to deny marriage to us then maybe they need to have theirs taken away . We also have thanks to http : //knowthyneighbor.org/ lists of people who should be targets .""","""No Matthew , we all read it . The fact that you have specific targets in mind for your attacks changes nothing ; what everyone says still applies . Please , please , give up this appproach . You 're only hurting those you claim to want to help .""",DISAGREE,"""Since the christinists are the ones who want to deny marriage""","""give up this appproach . You 're only hurting those you claim to want to help""",,
18890,5032,"""Paul was committed after he was acquitted by reason of insanity in the 1987 slaying of an elderly woman in Sunnyside . He soaked the woman 's body in gasoline to throw off search dogs and buried the remains in her flower garden .""","""Anyone seen brady lately ? '' they told me not to do it but I did anyway `` ...""",DISAGREE,"""Paul was committed after he was acquitted by reason of insanity in the 1987 slaying of an elderly woman in Sunnyside .""","""Anyone seen brady lately ? '' they told me not to do it but I did anyway ``""",,
18904,5035,"""Ludacris is no more influentual with me than is any other celebrity XXXXX ... like Sean Penn . It is amusing how people put value in what some goofball celebrity says or does just because he 's famous .""","""I think the only value is that he is bringing this kind of situation more attention so that people know it 's out there . His opinion on the subject means naught to me .""",DISAGREE,"""Ludacris is no more influentual with me than is any other celebrity XXXXX ... like Sean Penn . It is amusing how people put value in what some goofball celebrity says or does just because he 's famous .""","""I think the only value is that he is bringing this kind of situation more attention so that people""",,
18903,5035,"""Ludacris is no more influentual with me than is any other celebrity XXXXX ... like Sean Penn . It is amusing how people put value in what some goofball celebrity says or does just because he 's famous .""","""I think the only value is that he is bringing this kind of situation more attention so that people know it 's out there . His opinion on the subject means naught to me .""",DISAGREE,"""It is amusing how people put value in what some goofball celebrity""","""His opinion on the subject means naught to me .""",,
18937,5042,"""what makes there visions of otherworldly beings any differnt then that of moses or allah .""","""What makes them different is that Muslims believe in Allah , and Hindus do not .""",DISAGREE,"""what makes there visions of otherworldly beings any differnt then that of moses or allah .""","""What makes them different is that Muslims believe in Allah , and Hindus do not .""",,
18933,5042,"""what makes there visions of otherworldly beings any differnt then that of moses or allah .""","""What makes them different is that Muslims believe in Allah , and Hindus do not .""",DISAGREE,"""there visions of otherworldly beings any differnt then that of moses or allah .""","""them different is that Muslims believe in Allah , and Hindus""",,
18951,5044,"""When was the last mass murder at a UK university then ?""","""how about a Swiss University ? they have full automatic weapons in most homes , and target shooting is a national sport .""",DISAGREE,"""mass murder UK university then ?""","""how about a Swiss University ? they have full automatic weapons in most homes , and target shooting is a national sport""",,
18963,5045,"""The modern evolutionary synthesis ( often referred to simply as the new synthesis , the modern synthesis , the evolutionary synthesis , neo-Darwinian synthesis or neo-Darwinism ) , generally denotes the integration of Charles Darwin 's theory of the evolution of species by natural selection , Gregor Mendel 's theory of genetics as the basis for biological inheritance , random genetic mutation as the source of variation , and mathematical population genetics . Major figures in the development of the modern synthesis include Thomas Hunt Morgan , R. A. Fisher , Theodosius Dobzhansky , J.B.S . Haldane , Sewall Wright , Julian Huxley , Ernst Mayr , Bernhard Rensch , George Gaylord Simpson , and G. Ledyard Stebbins . Essentially , the modern synthesis introduced the connection between two important discoveries : the units of evolution ( genes ) and the mechanism of evolution ( selection ) . It also represents a unification of several branches of biology that previously had little in common , particularly genetics , cytology , systematics , botany , and paleontology .""","""and further :""",DISAGREE,"""The modern evolutionary synthesis""","""and further :""",,
18962,5045,"""The modern evolutionary synthesis ( often referred to simply as the new synthesis , the modern synthesis , the evolutionary synthesis , neo-Darwinian synthesis or neo-Darwinism ) , generally denotes the integration of Charles Darwin 's theory of the evolution of species by natural selection , Gregor Mendel 's theory of genetics as the basis for biological inheritance , random genetic mutation as the source of variation , and mathematical population genetics . Major figures in the development of the modern synthesis include Thomas Hunt Morgan , R. A. Fisher , Theodosius Dobzhansky , J.B.S . Haldane , Sewall Wright , Julian Huxley , Ernst Mayr , Bernhard Rensch , George Gaylord Simpson , and G. Ledyard Stebbins . Essentially , the modern synthesis introduced the connection between two important discoveries : the units of evolution ( genes ) and the mechanism of evolution ( selection ) . It also represents a unification of several branches of biology that previously had little in common , particularly genetics , cytology , systematics , botany , and paleontology .""","""and further :""",DISAGREE,"""The modern evolutionary synthesis ( often referred to simply as the new synthesis , the modern synthesis , the evolutionary synthesis , neo-Darwinian synthesis or neo-Darwinism""","""and further :""",,
18997,5049,"""And it 's so bleedin ' unnecessary , too ! Why not just create the universe as it is ? And just let the light take it 's sweet time to get here ? Imagine what proof for creationism that would be : we can only see stars out to 6000 light years or so ; looking at old star charts we realize that people 1000 years ago could only see stars out to 5000 light years ; and as time goes by additional stars appear in the sky as the light from them finally reaches us . If God did create the universe only 6000 years ago , the fact that we can see the entire universe now can only count as a deliberate , I will repeat , a deliberate , oh how I love that word , DELIBERATE deception on the part of the creator .""","""Deliberate deception would be putting million year old dinosaur bones on a thousand year old planet . Even more deceiving would be putting vast amounts of oil here as well which takes millions of years to create . I would put the stars in the sky in the same category as this in terms of deception . The stars could be more of a cosmetic thing as far as God is concerned . He could have just added them to our sky without concern for whether it made sense or not . I personally would n't fault him for this .""",DISAGREE,"""If God did create the universe only 6000 years ago , the fact that we can see the entire universe now can only count as a deliberate , I will repeat , a deliberate , oh how I love that word , DELIBERATE deception on the part of the creator .""","""I would put the stars in the sky in the same category as this in terms of deception .""",,
18999,5049,"""And it 's so bleedin ' unnecessary , too ! Why not just create the universe as it is ? And just let the light take it 's sweet time to get here ? Imagine what proof for creationism that would be : we can only see stars out to 6000 light years or so ; looking at old star charts we realize that people 1000 years ago could only see stars out to 5000 light years ; and as time goes by additional stars appear in the sky as the light from them finally reaches us . If God did create the universe only 6000 years ago , the fact that we can see the entire universe now can only count as a deliberate , I will repeat , a deliberate , oh how I love that word , DELIBERATE deception on the part of the creator .""","""Deliberate deception would be putting million year old dinosaur bones on a thousand year old planet . Even more deceiving would be putting vast amounts of oil here as well which takes millions of years to create . I would put the stars in the sky in the same category as this in terms of deception . The stars could be more of a cosmetic thing as far as God is concerned . He could have just added them to our sky without concern for whether it made sense or not . I personally would n't fault him for this .""",DISAGREE,"""If God did create the universe only 6000 years ago , the fact that we can see the entire universe now can only count as a deliberate , I will repeat , a deliberate , oh how I love that word , DELIBERATE deception""","""The stars could be more of a cosmetic thing as far as God is concerned""",,
19004,5050,"""How strange . It seems that Habbit 's definition of the word definition is meaningless . [ cutting the useless part , do n't want to waste server space ]""","""Great way of twisting what I said . Would you like a Snickers bar ?""",DISAGREE,"""How strange Habbit 's definition""","""twisting what I said like a Snickers bar ?""",,
19008,5051,"""It is not a rational alternative to the theory of evolution , unless you can somehow show that you are n't relying on the unknowable .""","""But we also do n't know that evolution is true - it is a belief system about the past that requires faith for it to have any reason . Your first part is already false ( proved above ) .""",DISAGREE,"""unless you can somehow show that you are n't relying on the unknowable .""","""But we also do n't know that evolution is true""",,
19013,5052,"""This is where the looney left gets lost . Their mantra is atmospheric CO2 levels are escalating and this is unquestionably causing earth 's temperature rise . But ask yourself -- if global temperatures are experiencing the biggest sustained drop in decades , while CO2 levels continue to rise -- how can it be true ?""","""Because internal variability from the likes of ENSO , which can cause short term swings of a full degree C , easily swamp the smaller increase we 'd expect from CO2 forcing . Easy .""",DISAGREE,"""This is where the looney left gets lost .""","""Because internal variability from the likes of ENSO""",,
19047,5060,"""The Christian theistic worldview can account for the laws of logic by stating that they come from God . God is transcendent ; that is , He is beyond the material universe being its creator . God has originated the laws of logic because they are a reflection of His nature . Therefore , the laws of logic are absolute . The are absolute because there is an absolute God . The atheistic worldview can not account for the laws of logic/absolutes , and must borrow from the Christian worldview in order to rationally argue .""","""this is totally false . the laws of logic being absolute does nothing to support a case for god . in fact , everything the bible tells us about god 's nature indicates that god is illogical , unpredictable , unreliable and irreplicable . this is totally the opposite of logic""",DISAGREE,"""The Christian theistic worldview can account for the laws of logic by stating that they come from God .""","""this is totally false . the laws of logic being absolute does nothing to support a case for god .""",,
19056,5069,"""The zygote is the cell formed when the sperm fertilises the egg . The zygote has no brain , it has no conciousness . You have two tables , one with a small test tube which you know holds a microscopically small living zygote , and another table with a live baby . You are told that one of them will be destroyed and you have just two seconds to decide which , or both will be destroyed . Without a seconds thought I would immediately point in the direction of the zygote , and save the life of the baby . Extreme pro-lifers on the otherhand would probably end up killing the baby or both via indecision and inability to make a choice in just 2 seconds . That 's the morality of pro-life for you : the inability to realise that the chemical reactions that happen when a sperm meets an egg do not define a human person . Am I wrong ? I do n't believe so . The sperm meeting the egg is a really random point to decide the emergance of a human person . Why pick that point specifically ?""","""Let me pose a hypothetical question . Same scenario as yours above but instead there is a genetically normal zygote on one table or on the other table , there is a mentally retarded newborn baby ... which one will you choose if you had 2 seconds to choose ? You see life is existant at both stages , at the single cell and the newborn baby , but our view ( sometimes ignorance , sometimes selfishness ) is why we choose what we choose . So do tell me which one you will choose ?""",DISAGREE,"""The sperm meeting the egg is a really random point to decide the emergance of a human person . Why pick that point specifically ?""","""You see life is existant at both stages , at the single cell and the newborn baby , but our view is why we choose what we choose .""",,
19067,5071,"""Termites produce two times the carbon dioxide that humans do ... let 's have a war with termites to get rid of some carbon dioxide . lol""","""That was jsut plain silly . A single car will produce more emmisiosn then all the termites in your state . Rember c02 is one part of the equation .""",DISAGREE,"""Termites produce two times the carbon dioxide that humans do ...""","""That was jsut plain silly . A single car will produce more emmisiosn then all the termites in your state .""",,
19098,5077,"""Which version of the creation story is a fact ? Genesis chapter 1 or genesis chapter 2 There are 2 creation myths""","""You mean in the Bible alone . There are thousands of others .""",DISAGREE,"""Which version of the creation story is a fact ? Genesis chapter 1 or genesis chapter 2""","""You mean in the Bible alone . There are thousands of others .""",,
19101,5078,"""Another great irony is now a mostly male Democratic leadership that thinks taking away women 's right to choose is a Christmas gift or bonus to the American people , of whom over 50 % are women . Plus let 's chip away at the rights of lower income women even more , at this charitable ho ho ho time of year !""","""A woman 's right to choose to keep her legs together is not in any way abridged by this bill . Ho , ho , f * * * ing ho .""",DISAGREE,"""taking away women 's right""","""A woman 's right to choose to keep her legs together is not in any way abridged by this bill""",,
19109,5081,"""Actually , YES I HAVE ! Not recently , but every time a cop has ever told me to sign a ticket he has made it clear that signing it is n't an admission of guilt , just an acknowledgment of receiving it .""","""LOL . Well that 's so nice of the copy who let you know . And that 's very interesting -- `` every time `` -- Archangel . How many times have you been stopped ? And for going how fast ? I 'm sure it was a lot more than 35 mph ! And you have the nerve to talk about `` responsibility `` or how this woman was a jerk ? Or to call me names ? Dearest , I never speed because I take my responsibilities as a citizen so seriously , and i have never received a speeding ticket . Were you driving under the influence as well ? How many lives did you put at risk , Archangel ? What pomposity ! What hypocrisy !""",DISAGREE,"""Not recently , but every time a cop has ever told me to sign""","""Well that 's so nice of the copy who let you know . And that 's very interesting -- `` every time ``""",,
19113,5082,"""So they had no potential as you claim they did .""","""You know what else does n't have any hope/potential of maturing into sentient beings , Archie ? Aborted fetuses . Game-set-match .""",DISAGREE,"""So they had no potential as you claim they did .""","""You know what else does n't have any hope/potential of maturing into sentient beings""",,
19115,5083,"""What part of school biology needs evolution to make sense ? taking out evolution is not like taking out algebra and equations of curves out of mathematics and still teaching calculus .""","""So then I guess you could also debate that algebra serves no purpose as well .""",DISAGREE,"""taking out evolution is not like taking out algebra and equations""","""I guess you could also debate that algebra serves no purpose as well""",,
19128,5085,"""For one to have evolution as their foundation belief , means that one can not be certian of anything ..... There are no absalutes to build from !""","""And as already shown ... `` Scientism , in the strong sense , is the self-annihilating view that only scientific claims are meaningful , which is not a scientific claim and hence , if true , not meaningful. `` http : //skepdic.com/scientism.html Scientism and Objectivism are from the sins of pride ; that man can know everything . It was the first sin ; the first temptation of Adam + EVe . There is no logic to the belief that man can know everything . How can it be believed when 'everything ' is not yet known ; there could be things found that man will never be able to determine what they are .""",AGREE,"""For one to have evolution as their foundation belief , means that one can not be certian of anything""","""And as already shown""",,
19134,5086,"""I am pro-life ......""","""* interupts debate for a second * Yay ! Welcome .""",DISAGREE,"""I am pro-life""","""interupts debate for a second * Yay ! Welcome .""",,
19155,5089,"""Ah , the good old gun-crazy US of A .""","""Meanwhile there are school shootings happening in Germany no matter how much they tighten their overreaching gun control laws . Think on that one before you speak again , blood shoes .""",DISAGREE,"""the good old gun-crazy US of A .""","""there are school shootings happening in Germany no matter how much they tighten their overreaching gun control laws .""",,
19176,5096,"""The problem you are running into is that you are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation ( universe etc . ) and tying his existence to that .""","""But I do n't see a problem . I do see a problem with proposing that God is something 'other ' , something special . I have a brain , which is a real physical object . I also have a mind , which is an abstract thing the true nature of which can not yet be ascertained , but I do not believe that it is the result of anything other than the fantastical complexity of the brain . If the physical structure of the universe is equivalent to a brain , then 'God ' is the mind , but he/she/it is only a product of the universe 's fantastical complexity , and not the creator .""",DISAGREE,"""are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation""","""then 'God ' is the mind , but he/she/it is only a product of the universe 's fantastical complexity , and not the creator .""",,
19175,5096,"""The problem you are running into is that you are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation ( universe etc . ) and tying his existence to that .""","""But I do n't see a problem . I do see a problem with proposing that God is something 'other ' , something special . I have a brain , which is a real physical object . I also have a mind , which is an abstract thing the true nature of which can not yet be ascertained , but I do not believe that it is the result of anything other than the fantastical complexity of the brain . If the physical structure of the universe is equivalent to a brain , then 'God ' is the mind , but he/she/it is only a product of the universe 's fantastical complexity , and not the creator .""",DISAGREE,"""The problem you are running into is that you are trying to imagine god existing within the framework of creation ( universe etc . ) and tying his existence to that .""","""I do see a problem with proposing that God is something 'other ' , something special . I have a brain , which is a real physical object . I also have a mind , which is an abstract thing the true nature of which can not yet be ascertained , but I do not believe that it is the result of anything other than the fantastical complexity of the brain""",,
19188,5099,"""Your logic is remarkably lame to say the least .""","""You your qualifications in logic allow you to judge that ? I suspect that you are talking out of your elbow since I have n't seen any evidence that you know what logic is . Mostly I see hysteria and superstition in your posts .""",DISAGREE,"""Your logic is remarkably lame""","""your qualifications in logic allow you to judge that ?""",,
19196,5101,"""We 've been over this many many times before ...""","""And you continually refuse to learn the facts of the matter .""",DISAGREE,"""We 've been over this many many times before""","""continually refuse to learn the facts of the matter""",,
19203,5103,"""Because you seem to lose sight of that with your whackjob ideas . Case in point `` The manufacturer would have to know where to point LE `` now you have the manufacturer involved in law enforcement . Would you have the big 3 involved in pointing out to LE who last bought their products involving drive bys and vehicular homicide ? You have no clue as to how the whole process works yet you are going to put your oar in and muddy the process . Here 's a small lesson for you . The manufacturers of firearms do n't sell to dealers . They sell to distributors who in turn sell to dealers . You are still lacking any valid proof that the law abiding are the problem .""","""So LE finds the original first owner through the distributor or the dealer with the assistance of the manufacturer ?""",AGREE,"""Because you seem to lose sight of that with your whackjob ideas .""","""So LE finds the original first owner through the distributor or the dealer with the assistance of the manufacturer ?""",,
19201,5103,"""Because you seem to lose sight of that with your whackjob ideas . Case in point `` The manufacturer would have to know where to point LE `` now you have the manufacturer involved in law enforcement . Would you have the big 3 involved in pointing out to LE who last bought their products involving drive bys and vehicular homicide ? You have no clue as to how the whole process works yet you are going to put your oar in and muddy the process . Here 's a small lesson for you . The manufacturers of firearms do n't sell to dealers . They sell to distributors who in turn sell to dealers . You are still lacking any valid proof that the law abiding are the problem .""","""So LE finds the original first owner through the distributor or the dealer with the assistance of the manufacturer ?""",AGREE,"""Here 's a small lesson for you . The manufacturers of firearms do n't sell to dealers""","""distributor or the dealer with the assistance of the manufacturer""",,
19265,5116,"""You have beliefs not based on science , but my beliefs not based on your version of science are irrational ?""","""But you have challenged science with your beliefs . You argue against science with your beliefs , based on mythology with no evidential support . You argue against real science so that you can cling to your fairy tales .""",DISAGREE,"""You have beliefs not based on science , but my beliefs not based on your version of science are irrational ?""","""challenged science with your beliefs . You argue against science with your beliefs , based on mythology""",,
19287,5124,"""Just because I don ? t like something does not mean I think it should be outlawed .""","""But you do n't like intellectual property and consign it to non-existence .""",DISAGREE,"""Just because I don ? t like something does not mean I think it should be outlawed .""","""But you do n't like intellectual property and consign it to non-existence .""",,
19293,5126,"""Huh ? How was allowing you to make your own decisions in your own personal life interferance by the goverment ? That 's like saying a parent allowing a child to do what they wish intefering in their personal lives . How are they interferring when they are letting them do what they wish ? You 're not making any sense at all . Sadly yes . People should be able to make their own decisions without a nanny state , but that 's not going to change as the Gop holds the federal govermment . Beyond the fact that government said that you can have a abortion , they were not interferring with your decisions . A goverment that actively promotes freedoms and rights is not interfering with the lives as a govermment that actively restricts rights and monitors for such violations in the personal lives of its citizens .""","""so first you tell me `` how are they intefering by letting them do as they wish `` How are they letting them do as they wish when there are restrictions ? then you say `` sadly yes people should be able to make their own decisions without a nanny state `` am I the only one that does n't get that ?""",DISAGREE,"""How was allowing you to make your own decisions in your own personal life interferance by the goverment ?""","""am I the only one that does n't get that ?""",,
19300,5127,"""Thiest : I believe in God ? What is God as best defined by you ? Describe the nature of God . What is it that you believe in ?""","""SP : Hello again . I hope you are well . God is difficult to define . One would not expect a finite being such as myself to define clearly and completely an infinite being such as God . However , as with any person God has defined himself . We all definie or identify , ourselves by various methods . What we like and dislike . What we do , where we go , where we have been . God has done this as well in the bible . He has mades statements about the things he likes and dislikes ( The ten commandments for instance ) . He tells what he does ( he is a creator for instance , He loves , he has mercy and grace . ) He tells us where he has been ( He is the God that is , was , and will be , in otherwords exists outside of time ) . There are other things naturally . I can tell you some because as a finite being I will take a life time getting to know him . This is true with any person . You can not completely define your closest and dearest friend . It is impossible because people are infinitely complex . You can know your friend none the less . This is true of God as well . You have heard me talk about God on this forum for quite sometime . This is how God is defined . You ask an impossibly broad question . Sglaine seems to imply that theists will only hamper you with illogic when it comes to defining God and they will eventually say they do n't know . I know some not all . So do you . This is right . To assume that we should be able to define God completely and accurately is illogical .""",DISAGREE,"""What is it that you believe in ?""","""To assume that we should be able to define God completely and accurately is illogical .""",,
19313,5131,"""I tell you now , a fetus is not morally a person to me . There , you are refuted .""","""And what if it is one to me ? Then your refute is equally refuted . The support for us not knowing lies in you and other 's inability to provide anything beyond speculation as support for the assertion that an unborn child is not a person . Your own inability is my support .""",DISAGREE,"""I tell you now , a fetus is not morally a person to me . There , you are refuted .""","""And what if it is one to me ? Then your refute is equally refuted . The support for us not knowing lies in you and other 's inability to provide anything beyond speculation as support for the assertion that an unborn child is not a person . Your own inability is my support .""",,
19317,5132,"""And it 's politics were talking about here , not home life . If you 're getting into polical discussions and find yourself on the same side as the KKK , you may well benefit from re-examine your positions .""","""Oh , it 's politics ! [ Slapping forehead with hand ] What was I thinking ? ? If I find any KKK members are against relaxing drug laws , I guess I 'd better change my view and start opposing drug laws . And if I happen to find that there are KKK members who do n't mind U.S. involvement in the UN , I 'll be sure and oppose any U.S. involvement in the U.N . I wonder if any of them have parents on medicare ? Doh ! ! Guess I better oppose any form of socialized healthcare !""",DISAGREE,"""If you 're getting into polical discussions and find yourself on the same side as the KKK""","""And if I happen to find that there are KKK members who do n't mind U.S. involvement in the UN""",,
19322,5133,"""No it can not exist without being subject to God 's Will . The only way the hypotehtical Rock could exist would be if God would deem to give the rock Free Will and then deem to honor the rock 's Free Will as God honors Free Will -- the vast majority of the time -- within people . This hypothetical is rather pedistrian .""","""an unbreakable rock can not exist , simply because its illogical , not because of God 's will . as long as something is classified as a rock , or any other solid for that matter , it can break . in the same way God can not create a round square . then again , God can set limits on himself , in that he can create a situation that he himself can not revoke . in a way it is similar to the hard rock question . for instance , God can not undo his word . if he says something will happen , or never happen , then it can never be undone . according to genesis , one of the things God can not do is destroy the earth by water . in this sense , here is something God can not do . by God 's own declarations he limits his possible actions . but it doesnt make him less than omnipotent . he still possesses the ABILITY to destroy the earth by global flood , but he can not because he can not lie , and for every declaration he makes , its one more thing he can not do""",DISAGREE,"""No it can not exist without being subject to God 's Will . The only way the hypotehtical Rock could exist would be if God would deem to give the rock Free Will and then deem to honor the rock 's Free Will as God honors Free Will -- the vast majority of the time -- within people . This hypothetical is rather pedistrian .""","""an unbreakable rock can not exist , simply because its illogical , not because of God 's will .""",,
19327,5134,"""Sticking a pair of scisors in the back of a full-grown , half born , fetus ' head , with the doctor holding in his hands a fetus about to be born , is not just wrong in a Christian belief . YOu 're sick if you support it .""","""And you 're quite naive if you think that emotional examples mean anything against the facts . The so-called `` Partial Birth `` Abortion is quite rare and usually only performed to save the mother 's life , but now they 're going to have to let the mother die because Dubya has banned this now thus the first step to going back to the `` good old days `` when women were nothing more than property . You 're the sick one . Also , with your resorting to such tactics shows that you are losing . BTW , is n't putting `` Your god `` under your name somewhat sacrilegious by putting yourself above your god ? I guess that I 'll be seeing you in Hell .""",DISAGREE,"""Sticking a pair of scisors in the back of a full-grown , half born , fetus ' head , with the doctor holding in his hands a fetus about to be born , is not just wrong in a Christian belief . YOu 're sick if you support it .""","""The so-called `` Partial Birth `` Abortion is quite rare and usually only performed to save the mother 's life , but now they 're going to have to let the mother die because Dubya has banned this now thus the first step to going back to the `` good old days `` when women were nothing more than property .""",,
19336,5135,"""2 ) Offspring vary among themselves , and are not carbon copies of an immutable type . Asexual reproduction . Thank you and goodnight .""","""Comments about asexual reproduction are not relevant . The statement is true , and again one of Darwin 's observations . The later part of the statement is a reference to a popular evolutionary philosophy during the latter half of the 19th century , essentialism . Except for creationists , essentialism was debunked and cast aside during the years of the synthesis .""",DISAGREE,"""Offspring vary among themselves , and are not carbon copies of an immutable type .""","""The later part of the statement is a reference to a popular evolutionary philosophy""",,
19348,5138,"""She is attempting to make it sound like the christian community is split , but bible believing pastors would n't be caught dead endorsing what this pastor believes in any aspect of his so called faith .""","""The Christian community DOES have a split on the issue . Not all Christians believe gays should be the target of Christian homophobic attacks and discriminatory legislative efforts .""",DISAGREE,"""She is attempting to make it sound like the christian community is split , but bible believing pastors would n't be caught dead endorsing what this pastor believes in any aspect of his so called faith .""","""The Christian community DOES have a split on the issue . Not all Christians believe gays should be the target of Christian homophobic attacks and discriminatory legislative efforts .""",,
19364,5141,"""the only stupid gun laws are the laws that arent strict enough like the law that gun nuts wanted that would allow children to tote around assault rifles how stupid can you be""","""What laws are these that you speak of ? Kindly provide the bill name and number so you have some actual proof and are n't simply parroting from the fear-mongering Brady Campaign and Violence Policy Center . During World War II the American people rounded up Japanese-Americans and herded them into concentration camps because you were at war with the people of Japan and thought that they were the sleeping enemy even though they had no proof . What you 're speaking of is no different than this . The way I see it Brady , your hatred for guns and gun owners is so overwhelming and logic defying , that you 'd be perfectly alright with unleashing a life-ending pandemic plague on the people of earth if you believed it would put an end to all gun owners everywhere .""",DISAGREE,"""the law that gun nuts wanted that would allow children to tote around assault rifles how stupid can you be""","""bill name and number your hatred for guns and gun owners is so overwhelming and logic defying""",,
19376,5143,"""1+1=2 if we know the meaning or not""","""Thank you for repeating me .""",AGREE,"""1+1=2 if we know the meaning or not""","""Thank you for repeating me .""",,
19405,5148,"""All your posts are like this . Are you on crack ?""","""Perhaps the screen name gives me the impression that all his/her posts will be tongue-in-cheek or outright lies ! As for the apparent drug usage , I 'd say it 's more likely LSD than crack . A person on crack usually sells their computer !""",AGREE,"""All your posts are like this . Are you on crack ?""","""Perhaps the screen name gives me the impression that all his/her posts will be tongue-in-cheek or outright lies !""",,
19439,5155,"""Robbie , You are unbelievable . No one is sitting here saying that the fetus inside the whomb are unhappy people . Women get abortions for a ton of reasons . I am Irish Catholic and even I am not such a freak about a womens right to chose . You sound like Hitler .""","""Hi Boopee . I do n't know what to say . Never thought I 'd be compared to Hitler . Yikes ! Um , well , ya . So , I guess if you 're interested , I 'll give some reasons why I 'm against abortion . Here 's some links to articles about it on Boundless ( a webzine ) . ( if you want to , just go to www.boundless.org and type abortion into the search bar ) http : //www.boundless.org/2001/regula ... /a0000567.html http : //www.boundless.org/2000/features/a0000229.html http : //www.boundless.org/2000/features/a0000230.html ( read this , if no others ) I oppose abortion because .... a ) I beleive the unborn is a valuable human being , and therfore abortion is murder b ) I beleive that abortion hurts women ( see links ) Yah , those are the basic reasons .""",DISAGREE,"""You sound like Hitler .""","""Never thought I 'd be compared to Hitler . I 'll give some reasons why I 'm against abortion . the unborn is a valuable human being , and therfore abortion is murder abortion hurts women""",,
19450,5157,"""BWWWWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! Are you trying to be deceptive or is it that you really did n't understand what you read ? It 's really pretty simple . The first link does not suggest that man arose in China . It is a discussion of a primate fossil . While humans are primates , all primates are not necessarily humans . The article discusses a primate fossil , the oldest yet discovered . It does not claim that mankind arose in China .""","""Can you not understand `` Our Primate Ancestors `` arose in China . The article suggests that previous theories were Afro-centric . '' Could it be that the entire story of primate and human evolution was like watching the movie `` Out of Africa `` over and over , with every major transition in primate evolution occurring on that continent ? `` Are you using 'ancestral with the spin that ancestor may not be anything other than archaic ? Or are you suggesting that they arose in China , then moved back to Africa ? Because the article says `` Carnegie palaeontologist Chris Beard tells how he made the scientific and political choices governing his selection of fossil research sites , and what it 's like to discover a very early rung on the ladder of human evolution. `` Which suggests that they were an actual ancestor . By the way , you do the same bwaahhaa as Iamthetruth . An indication of the level of which you wish to 'discuss ' things . ( Could it be that you have two IDs on this post ? ) . Sorry if that seems ad hominem , but it 's less so that your remarks .""",AGREE,"""does not in China , primate fossil , yet discovered""","""Our Primate Ancestors `` Afro-centric '' , scientific and political choices research sites ,""",,
19458,5159,"""Columbus went against 99.9 % of all people that demonstrated the world was flat . Turns out 99.9 % of them were wrong . Not one of them tried to demonsrate by sailing off the edge , did they ? Yet they thought that Columbus was insane for beleiving the world was round .""","""yes . and in the `` middle-ages `` roughly 80-90 % of the world believed in superstition , black-magic , and myths . knowledge based on facts do not change , but such built on unproven and untestable believe usually does""",DISAGREE,"""99.9 % of all people that demonstrated the world was flat""","""80-90 % of the world believed in superstition , black-magic , and myths .""",,
19471,5161,"""I think his point is paulie , that if evolution is actually as evo defines it , as changes made by way of random mutations , then why does n't life reflect those random mutations ? For example , why have n't a large number of lower animals who live their lives being hunted by carnivores adapted eyes in the back of their heads as a needed early warning system to see their stalkers coming from behind them ? Especially in times of drought and famine when food is scarce ? The environmental pressure exists at those times to justify such a change , yet from fish to birds to reptiles to mammals to even insects , most every creature in creation has 2 eyes , 1 mouth , 2 ears , ( if they even have ears since some animals use vibration sensors to locate the movement of prey and predator . ) It makes sense that Eagles , Hawks and Falcons have only 2 eyes since they are apex predators which rule their skies . But they regularly swoop down on smaller birds and pluck them out of the sky for food for their young . So why have n't smaller birds found the need to evolve eyes in the back of their heads ?""","""They have . Prey animals have their eyes to the sides of their heads which allows them to see in every direction , almost 360 degrees around . Predator animals have their both eyes facing forward .""",DISAGREE,"""why does n't life reflect those random mutations ?""","""They have .""",,
19485,5165,"""Why is only the father punished ? Having consensual sex is just that - consensual on the part of both people . If it is n't consensual , rape laws already cover it and if it is consensual and a pregnancy occurs , why punish only one of the consenting individuals ?""","""Because naturally the man should be responsible to pay for it ... one way or another , to support it ... and her in marraige , or provide child support , as provided in the law ... he did the deed , and must be made to pay .. The idea is that if men are held responsible for abortions , then they will put on a condom instead of taking the chance , ... and hence .. reduce the abortions or the need there of , and this would incourage them to marry .""",DISAGREE,"""father punished ? consensual , pregnancy individuals ?""","""did the deed , abortions reduce""",,
19494,5167,"""wow , that ’ s quite an argument .""","""Well if their reasoning has n't sunk in by now Anyways I 'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty . I do believe in individual responsibility which is why I 'm pro-choice for males as well . What 's your argument ?""",DISAGREE,"""wow , that ’ s quite an argument .""","""if their reasoning has n't sunk in by now Anyways I 'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty""",,
19492,5167,"""wow , that ’ s quite an argument .""","""Well if their reasoning has n't sunk in by now Anyways I 'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty . I do believe in individual responsibility which is why I 'm pro-choice for males as well . What 's your argument ?""",DISAGREE,"""wow , ’ s quite an argument .""","""I do believe in individual responsibility which is why I 'm pro-choice for males as well . What 's your argument ?""",,
19505,5169,"""The end result is that the city approved the purchase of 46 Smith & amp ; Wesson M & amp ; P 15 rifles , the same as those used by the city 's SWAT unit . Each weapon will cost the city about $ 1,200 . Federal grants are going to help pay for them . Every officer will be trained on how to use the new weapons .""","""But .... but .... I thought these weapons were used solely to kill large amounts of people ? Can anyone explain to me why we have to ban `` assault weapons `` because they are only designed to mow people down like blades of grass , yet we need to issue the same `` assault weapons `` to our police for their safety ? If they are used solely to kill large amounts of people indiscriminately , why do our police need them , unless it 's to kill large amounts of people indiscriminately ? How can you argue they ARE NOT needed , yet argue that they ARE needed ? Which is it ? Please explain yet another instance of anti-gun `` doublespeak `` .""",DISAGREE,"""Federal grants are going to help pay for them . Every officer will be trained on how to use the new weapons .""","""But .... but .... I thought these weapons were used solely to kill large amounts of people ? ``""",,
19527,5172,"""I get tired of hearing about abortion being a 'woman 's right ' and that any one that defends pro-life ideals are specifically seeking out to diminish the rights of women . There are two lives at stake here , which rarely gets mentioned by people who believe in 'pro-choice ' . There is no way to argue out of the fact that at 8 weeks ( and remember that pregnancy is calculated in weeks which begins at the start of the last menstrual period , so the embryo has only been established and growing for 6 weeks ) the embryo looks human , has developed reflexes and functioning brain tissue , and very importantly has a fully operational circulatory system , i.e . it 's heart is beating . Now people can argue how aware the embryo is at 6 , 7 , 8 , or 20 weeks or how much pain they can feel , but with out intervention that baby has a 70 plus percent chance of survival and WILL be a human being someday . Those are FACTS that can not be argued . The goal of people who are pro-life are not fighting to take rights away from women . They are fighting to GAIN rights for unborn children . With so many methods of birth control available today for men and women that are affordable and simple to use to PREVENT pregnancy , I do n't know why women still choose the option of abortion which is painful , expensive and emotional . It shows a major lack of responsibility and maturity on their part .""","""Amen mekayla , and welcome to the forum . Now prepare for the ensuing hate speech which is sure to come from the pro death and infanticide advocates who are sure to attack you for daring to share your common sense and compassionate opinion .""",AGREE,"""any one that defends pro-life ideals are specifically seeking no way to argue out of the fact fighting to GAIN rights for unborn children . expensive and emotional .""","""welcome to the forum prepare for the ensuing hate speech infanticide advocates who are sure to attack""",,
19560,5176,"""if you give teenagers the option to have an escape goat for getting pregnant at an early age . They 'll never learn !""","""Well lets see here lets take a little look here at what i found here at this website http : //www.eurowrc.org/06.contributi ... contrib.en.htm and this is what is says : `` Every minute in the United States , 1.3 adult women are raped ; 78 women are raped every hour ; 1,871 women are raped every day ; 56,916 women are raped every month ; 683,000 women are raped every year . ( Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center of the National Victim Center , 1992 ) . `` Now these women and teenagers that may have had a great life . They may have had a dream of becoming someone . They may be a good student at a good high school or college . They have been waiting all of their lives for . But ... But but but ... all of those dreams , goals , intentions , all shot down because some guy couldnt control his hormones and made them pregnant . Not only does that destroy you mentally . It also destroys you physically . They have to have this baby because they could not get an abortion and have that fetus , which was not their 's to want , could save a life of a person . They could save them from : cancer , bone thinning , organ failure etc . But no .. no ... no ... no ... because people think that only teens are just fooling around and not thinking and having unprotected sex . They should make abortions illegal . Thats definatly not my opinion""",DISAGREE,"""They 'll never learn !""","""Thats definatly not my opinion""",,
19569,5177,"""Yep thats true . There in separate buildings but right next to each other . I see it being about as attractive as a crack house next to a school with a revolving door in front .""","""Hey , dont give religion on public schools credit . At least crack tastes good .""",DISAGREE,"""I see it being about as attractive as a crack house next to a school with a revolving door in front .""","""Hey , dont give religion on public schools credit . At least crack tastes good .""",,
19564,5177,"""Yep thats true . There in separate buildings but right next to each other . I see it being about as attractive as a crack house next to a school with a revolving door in front .""","""Hey , dont give religion on public schools credit . At least crack tastes good .""",DISAGREE,"""see it being about as attractive as a crack house""","""At least crack tastes good .""",,
19577,5178,"""`` ... registering honest gun owners does n't stop criminals , and in fact focuses in exactly the opposite direction . It is an allocation of resources that has no chance of achieving its goal , if that goal is the reduction of crime. `` And that in a nutshell puts to rest Calico Slimjim 's puffery on registration .""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though .""",AGREE,"""in a nutshell puts to rest Calico Slimjim 's puffery on registration .""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though .""",,
19580,5178,"""`` ... registering honest gun owners does n't stop criminals , and in fact focuses in exactly the opposite direction . It is an allocation of resources that has no chance of achieving its goal , if that goal is the reduction of crime. `` And that in a nutshell puts to rest Calico Slimjim 's puffery on registration .""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though .""",AGREE,"""registering honest gun owners does n't stop criminals , and in fact focuses in exactly the opposite direction""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though""",,
19579,5178,"""`` ... registering honest gun owners does n't stop criminals , and in fact focuses in exactly the opposite direction . It is an allocation of resources that has no chance of achieving its goal , if that goal is the reduction of crime. `` And that in a nutshell puts to rest Calico Slimjim 's puffery on registration .""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though .""",AGREE,"""registering honest gun owners does n't stop criminals""","""It should , but between you me and the wall , you know it wo n't though .""",,
19594,5180,"""And here 's something else I do n't get . Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""From wikipedia : `` The phrase is a metaphor , not a scientific description ; and it is not generally used by biologists , who almost exclusively prefer to use the phrase 'natural selection'. ``""",DISAGREE,"""here 's something else I do n't get . ``""","""prefer to use the phrase 'natural selection'. ``""",,
19603,5180,"""And here 's something else I do n't get . Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""From wikipedia : `` The phrase is a metaphor , not a scientific description ; and it is not generally used by biologists , who almost exclusively prefer to use the phrase 'natural selection'. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""The phrase is a metaphor , not a scientific description""",,
19601,5180,"""And here 's something else I do n't get . Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""From wikipedia : `` The phrase is a metaphor , not a scientific description ; and it is not generally used by biologists , who almost exclusively prefer to use the phrase 'natural selection'. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the""","""The phrase is a metaphor , not a scientific description""",,
19616,5183,"""Generally , most theories have the backing of many experiments .""","""And there are thousands upon thousands of experiments that back evolution . Clearly you have n't bothered to look at any of them . [ more creationist lies snipped for they are getting tedious ]""",DISAGREE,"""most theories have the backing of many experiments""","""Clearly you have n't bothered to look at any of them""",,
19615,5183,"""Generally , most theories have the backing of many experiments .""","""And there are thousands upon thousands of experiments that back evolution . Clearly you have n't bothered to look at any of them . [ more creationist lies snipped for they are getting tedious ]""",DISAGREE,"""Generally , most theories have the backing of many experiments .""","""Clearly you have n't bothered to look at any of them . [ more creationist lies snipped for they are getting tedious ]""",,
19622,5184,"""did you miss the part where it is ... the attempt to abort . which kills the women ..... -Mosheh Thezion""","""No , you need to read more carefully :""",DISAGREE,"""did you miss the part where it is ... the attempt to abort""","""No you need to read more carefully""",,
19638,5187,"""As far as your quotes go , I hope that you realise that Feduucia still believes that they are a transitional . He just disagrees on what they are a transitional of .""","""Once again , my point was that evolutionists contradict each other . One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""",DISAGREE,"""Feduucia still believes that they are a transitional . He just disagrees on what they are a transitional of""","""that evolutionists contradict each other .""",,
19634,5187,"""As far as your quotes go , I hope that you realise that Feduucia still believes that they are a transitional . He just disagrees on what they are a transitional of .""","""Once again , my point was that evolutionists contradict each other . One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""",DISAGREE,"""As far as your quotes go , I hope that you realise that Feduucia still believes that they are a transitional .""","""my point was that evolutionists contradict each other . One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile""",,
19665,5198,"""How is this not reversing a judicial decesion ?""","""Reversing a decision would occur at what you might call the `` law `` level . Amending the Constitution is at a different level , and so does n't count as a reversal .""",DISAGREE,"""How is this not reversing a judicial decesion ?""","""Amending the Constitution is at a different level , and so does n't count as a reversal .""",,
19666,5198,"""How is this not reversing a judicial decesion ?""","""Reversing a decision would occur at what you might call the `` law `` level . Amending the Constitution is at a different level , and so does n't count as a reversal .""",DISAGREE,"""How is this not reversing a judicial decesion ?""","""Reversing a decision would occur at what you might call the `` law `` level . Amending the Constitution is at a different level , and so does n't count as a reversal .""",,
19690,5202,"""I am deathly afraid of fatty diets , because the indisputable scientific evidence says I should .""","""Just because something is bad does n't mean you should fear it , because it 's easily avoidable .""",DISAGREE,"""I am deathly afraid of fatty diets , because the indisputable scientific evidence says I should .""","""Just because something is bad does n't mean you should fear it""",,
19699,5203,"""That is neat , but one catch is that I am an atheist . So who do I get to be the official . A minister would n't really work and it is n't legal so a judge does n't work ...... so who ?""","""Joe ; Should you travel to the few states now allowing ( Gawd ; I hate that word ) S/S marriages , a JoP will officiate at your services .""",AGREE,"""That is neat , but one catch is that I am an atheist . So who do I get to be the official . A minister would n't really work and it is n't legal so a judge does n't work ...... so who ?""","""Should you travel to the few states now allowing ( Gawd ; I hate that word ) S/S marriages , a JoP will officiate at your services .""",,
19705,5204,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Some of you put your credibility on the line by saying that the Sun is n't shrinking . I did some research in this area , and came up with some interesting results. . .""","""Which are based on old information . The SOHO project ( with which I was indirectly involved , and know some of the participants ) was launched on December 2 , 1995 specifically to make high precision measurements of the sun , especially the oscillations of the size of the surface , which indicate details of the interior . To quote them : Is the Sun expanding or contracting , and at what rate ? ( For an overview of the controversy over solar diameter variations , I recommend John Gribbin 's pre-SOHO book , Blinded By the Light : The Secret Life of the Sun , published in 1991 ) The Sun is not currently expanding or contracting to any measurable extent . It may in fact be shrinking or swelling , but we have no hard data with which to conclude that . It is vibrating , however : http : //helios.tuc.noao.edu/helio.html ( Global Oscillation Network Group ) http : //soi.stanford.edu ( The Solar Oscillations Investigation ) In addition , we expect that the Sun will someday expand into a red giant phase , but that wo n't be for another 4 billion to 5 billion years or so . SOHO FAQ So , have you worked out the length of a day would have been 1 billion years ago ?""",DISAGREE,"""put your credibility on the line by saying that the Sun is n't shrinking""","""we expect that the Sun will someday expand into a red giant phase""",,
19703,5204,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Some of you put your credibility on the line by saying that the Sun is n't shrinking . I did some research in this area , and came up with some interesting results. . .""","""Which are based on old information . The SOHO project ( with which I was indirectly involved , and know some of the participants ) was launched on December 2 , 1995 specifically to make high precision measurements of the sun , especially the oscillations of the size of the surface , which indicate details of the interior . To quote them : Is the Sun expanding or contracting , and at what rate ? ( For an overview of the controversy over solar diameter variations , I recommend John Gribbin 's pre-SOHO book , Blinded By the Light : The Secret Life of the Sun , published in 1991 ) The Sun is not currently expanding or contracting to any measurable extent . It may in fact be shrinking or swelling , but we have no hard data with which to conclude that . It is vibrating , however : http : //helios.tuc.noao.edu/helio.html ( Global Oscillation Network Group ) http : //soi.stanford.edu ( The Solar Oscillations Investigation ) In addition , we expect that the Sun will someday expand into a red giant phase , but that wo n't be for another 4 billion to 5 billion years or so . SOHO FAQ So , have you worked out the length of a day would have been 1 billion years ago ?""",DISAGREE,"""Some of you put your credibility on the line by saying that the Sun is n't shrinking .""","""Is the Sun expanding or contracting , and at what rate ? ( For an overview of the controversy over solar diameter variations""",,
19749,5208,"""More concrete than the thought processes which dismiss out of hand the flat statement of the US Secretary of State opining that no functioning democracy should allow private ownership of guns , but allow them only to be lawfully held by the state ? Sleep well .""","""No kidding . What could POSSIBLY be more concrete ? As far as I can tell , she has never publicly made a statement specifically about the DC gun ban but since , as you pointed out , she DID say that no functioning democracy should allow private ownership of guns , I have trouble believing that she thinks the private citizens of DC should be allowed to own guns , UNLESS what she is saying is that since we own guns , we should move toward a monarchy or perhapse some kind of dictatorship . She did not , as far as I know , voice her opinion regarding private gun ownership in a totalitarian system .""",AGREE,"""More concrete than the thought processes which dismiss out of hand the flat statement of the US Secretary of State""","""What could POSSIBLY be more concrete ? As far as I can tell , she has never publicly made a statement specifically about the DC gun ban""",,
19766,5212,"""`` Last week the Senate found the courage to say , 'Freeze ! ' It defeated , if narrowly , a bill that would have allowed people with permits to carry a concealed gun across state lines ....""","""So you 're saying that a person 's right to defend themselves ends at the border of their state of residence ? How about a person 's First Amendment rights ? Should states be allowed to set limitations on free speech that 're radically different from your own home state ? Or how about driver 's licenses ? Should your license only be good in one state and one state only , and driving in a different state is a criminal offense ?""",DISAGREE,"""It defeated , a bill that would have allowed people with permits to carry a concealed gun across state lines""","""you 're saying that a person 's right to defend themselves ends at the border of their state of residence ?""",,
19779,5216,"""here is something for all you dumb atheists One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom . The teacher was going to explain evolution to the children . The teacher asked a little boy : Tommy do you see the tree outside ? TOMMY : Yes . TEACHER : Tommy , do you see the grass outside ? TOMMY : Yes . TEACHER : Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky . TOMMY : Okay . ( He returned a few minutes later ) Yes , I saw the sky . TEACHER : Did you see God ? TOMMY : No . TEACHER : That is my point . We can not see God because he is not there . He does not exist .""","""So funny ... Like others have pointed out , this dialogue has nothing to do with evolution . It 's a ridiculous story otherwise as well ... 1 . How many secular teachers talk about God in class ? I 've never had a teacher in any of the secular schools I went to say anything about God , for fear of the controversy it would create . Teachers live in fear of controversy , they do n't want to get fired . I think this idea that non-Christian teachers try to convince students that God does n't exist is a fundamentalist paranoid fantasy . 2 . How many atheists use the `` you ca n't see it so it does n't exist `` argument ? very few . They will use the `` there is no evidence so I do n't believe you `` argument , but that has nothing to do with whether Timmy can see teacher 's brain .""",DISAGREE,"""here is something for all you dumb atheists and We can not see God because he is not there . He does not exist .""","""... How many atheists use the `` you ca n't see it so it does n't exist `` argument ? very few . They will use the `` there is no evidence so I do n't believe you `` argument""",,
19787,5218,"""Amazing . jyoshu post garbage like this at the same time he whines about being called `` anti-gay `` . Go figure . jyoshu , what part of `` lies `` , `` hate-mongering `` , `` not accpted by the medical professoin `` is it that you do n't understand ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Are you REALLY THAT DENSE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You just shot what miniscule credibility you may have THOUGHT you had.You are no better than Stephen Bennett is ; you spread his viciousness . You are both very sick people in need of help .""","""I 've read your hate mail personally , and still have a copy -- worse than anything Bennett has said and it would get you banned if I ever turned it in ( though I wo n't because I 'm not that kind of person ) . You have no ground anymore to say anything about anyone saying anything hateful , or commenting on the credibility of others . It 's interesting that when some of you decide to attack the messenger , you assume it will automatically discount the message . No one ever said every single thing a speaker says has to be agreed with ; it 's part of dealing with issues to agree with some things and not others . Certainly I do n't agree with everything Bennett said , but some of it needs to be repeated . Based on what I 've seen and continue to see in the gay 'rights ' movement , he 's more on target about quite a few things than most of you would ever admit .""",DISAGREE,"""You just shot what miniscule credibility you may have THOUGHT you""","""You have no ground anymore to say anything about anyone saying anything hateful""",,
19799,5222,"""I am intrigued to see that both sides have to be black or white . Either the creationist says the Bible is true down to the last detail or the anti-creationists say it is totally false and absolutely nothing as described ever happened . I wish to wave the flag for the middle ground . I do not believe that the Bible is 100 % accurate historically . I do believe that many events ( including the flood ) happened in some form or other and many of these are long-ago racial memories which may well have been enhanced/distorted/spun over the course of millenia . Trying to date the early parts of the Bible is effectively impossible . It is hard enough later on even at the time of the 'slavery ' in Egypt . Much more interesting to try and workout what may have happened .""","""I think that this is my view of it all as well . A lot of the events of the bible ( mainly the old testament ) are things that might have occured in one form or another , and much of the events of the New Testament DID occur . An example of my view is that I think that the flood did happen . It all started as a very large flood ( probably in a river valley ) that was much larger than normal ( say a `` 500-year-flood `` or a larger discharge event ) , possibly destroying a bunch of dwellings and maybe killing a lot of people , but some surviving leading to the Noah character . Eventually over the millenia , it got distorted and blown well out of proportion until it became a flood that covered the entire world . Then it led to the Epic of Gilgmesh , which was then adopted by those writing the early books of the Bible under the form it is seen as today .""",AGREE,"""I wish to wave the flag for the middle ground . I do not believe that the Bible is 100 % accurate historically .""","""I think that this is my view of it all as well . ``""",,
19816,5237,"""plus there are so many other sciences that are lumped with evolution ,""","""Incorrectly by those who do n't understand evolution . Talking about the evolutionist theories about the big bang is pretty mindless , since the big bang is cosmology . Whether or not there was or was not a big bang is irrelevant to evolutionary biology . Lumping other sciences under `` evolution `` is a method of creationists so that they can claim that they do n't oppose `` science `` but only evolution . To be a creationist is to reject the last 400 years of science - cosmology , astronomy , astrophysics , nuclear physics , geology , paleontology , tectonics , biogeography , genetics , population genetics , and so on . You get the idea .""",DISAGREE,"""plus there are so many other sciences that are lumped with evolution ,""","""Lumping other sciences under `` evolution `` is a method of creationists so that they can claim that they do n't oppose `` science `` but only evolution .""",,
19819,5238,"""Now , now , Terje ... ever been to Texas ?""","""Actually no . And I 'd really want to go for the music . This is a quote from Bob Brozman , a great slide player that I 've seen a few times . Funny guy . The full quote is like this : `` I 'm so glad to be here in Europe where you still have freedom of speech . They 've taken that away from us . Remember that I come from a coutry where 40 % of the people do n't believe in evolution . And if you ever go to Texas ... there 's no evidence of any ! ``""",AGREE,"""Now , now , Terje ... ever been to Texas ?""","""Actually no . And I 'd really want to go for the music . ``""",,
19824,5240,"""I have to ride to the defense of us chemists .""","""I can see why you might My apologies to chemists everywhere .""",AGREE,"""I have to ride to the defense of us chemists .""","""I can see why you might My apologies to chemists everywhere .""",,
19825,5240,"""I have to ride to the defense of us chemists .""","""I can see why you might My apologies to chemists everywhere .""",AGREE,"""I have to ride to the defense of us chemists .""","""I can see why you might My apologies to chemists everywhere .""",,
19834,5243,"""Interesting sidenote to the Elliot case : Gun Shop Held Liable * On January 16 a jury ordered Guns Unlimited , a Virginia Beach , Wa.-based gun shop , to pay $ 100,000 to the family of a teacher who was shot and killed by a student . The teen-ager 's 40-year-old cousin had bought the gun illegally for the boy at the store . Daren Farley was a teacher at the Atlantic Shores Christian School in Virginia Beach when she was fatally short with a 9mm pistol in December 1988 during a rampage by student Nicholas Elliott . Elliott also wounded another teacher with the pistol that had been bought three months earlier at Guns Unlimited . According to Associated Press , the cousin , Curtis Lee Williams , testified he bought the $ 300 gun with money given him by Elliott , then 15 . Williams , who served a 15-month prison term for lying on the federal paperwork involved in the sale , claimed Elliott was with him in the store , told the sales clerk which gun he wanted to get , andcarried the firearm from the store . Tony Sassengill , the sales clerk , said he could not remember Williams or Elliott . He said he knew he could not sell any handgun to a minor and would not have allowed such a transaction as described by Williams . Farley 's family had sought $ 3 million . Randy Singer , the family 's attorney , asked for a new hearing on the issue of damages . Peter Manson Jr. , an attorney representing Guns Unlimited , said the case against the gun store was based entirely on the word of Williams , who was convicted of lying on the sales form , and that there was no way the clerk could have known the gun would be used to commit a crime . Manson has asked for a new trial . Anti-gun groups immediately heralded the decision . Dennis Henigan of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence told AP this was the first time a jury had held a gun shop liable for damages in such a purchase . The legend lives on - Colt files for bankruptcy | Shooting Industry | Find Articles at BNET""","""So the scumbag judge or judge and jury did a tremendous miscarriage of justice then . But this is off the topic . Its Black on Black gun crime , not judicial activism .""",DISAGREE,"""Manson Jr. , an attorney representing Guns Unlimited , said the case against the gun store was based entirely on the word of Williams , who was convicted of lying on the sales form , and that there was no way the clerk could have known the gun would be used to commit a crime .""","""the scumbag judge or judge and jury did a tremendous miscarriage of justice then""",,
19836,5244,"""Under these circumstances [ stress-induced hyper-mutation ] , as per EAM , [ above ] , it has been repeatedly demonstrated [ since 1988 , at Corning , by that scientist whose name escapes me ] that the number of adaptive mutations outnumbers the number of of ineffectual or maladaptive mutations by a strongly significant statistical percentage .""","""On the face of it , the implication is that this kind of thing happens all the time ; that everywhere you look , stress-induced hypermutation is occurring , and along with it adaptive mutations are occurring disproportionately often - that this is part and parcel of everyday evolution . The ardour with which this evidence is brandished is , however , misleading . In only a handful of studies , using specific strains of bacteria with specific genetic features under specific environmental circumstances , have specific adaptive mutations seemed to occur with anomalous frequency . There is no suggestion that these cases are in any way generally representative , and even if the results were being interpreted correctly , the idea that they constitute evidence for a pan-species mechanism of internally directed evolution is , unfortunately , wishful thinking . But what of these rare anomalous cases ? The most famous was reported by J. Cairns and P. L. Foster , in which a dish of starving , non-growing E-coli ( a particular strain with a Lac- mutation ) appeared to preferentially induce a reversion mutation ( to Lac+ ) in order to enable growth when the only source of energy was lactose . Moreover , the mutation did not occur with such frequency if lactose was not present , if there was another growth-inhibiting factor in play , or if food sources other than lactose were available . On top of that , although the adapted bacteria showed evidence of accumulating other non-selected mutations , it was nowhere near enough to explain the rate of adaptive mutation , and the bacteria which did n't adapt showed no accumulation of unselected mutations at all ! Understandably , this looked to them , and other people at the time , like a pretty cut'n'dried example of an environmentally-or-organismically induced adaptive mutation . However , the nagging problem remained that this event was completely unprecedented , and was not observed in the general case of bacteria under starvation conditions . Why was this strain of bacteria so good at inducing this particular reversion mutation in just those circumstances ? The answer , as it turned out , was that the experimental assumption of 'no growth ' taking place in the e-coli colony was in error . The strain of e-coli used in the experiment had a 'leaky ' ( inefficient ) mutant Lac allele , with only 1 % to 2 % of the normal ability to process lactose . That 1 % to 2 % was then deliberately 'smothered ' by the experimenters through the addition of scavenger cells which mopped up the product of what little lactose the e-coli could process , effectively halting their growth . Because the later , visible growing colonies of e-coli had a reversion mutation to lac+ , the experimenters deduced that mutation was required for growth to be possible . However , what they did not take into account at the time was that during normal growth prior to incubation on the test medium , a small proportion of the e-coli colony experienced a duplication of the leaky lac gene . This mutation conferred no advantage - until the colony was plated on lactose . Now , the second copy of the gene increased the total amount of lactose they could process beyond the ability of the scavenger cells to inhibit growth , and the e-coli could ( slowly ) grow and divide . Within these slow-growing microcolonies , selection favoured those cells which experienced further lac- duplications . And the more lac- duplications a cell has , the more likely one of them will experience a reversion mutation to lac+ , explaining the apparently anomalous frequency of that particular mutation . When this happens , cell growth rate jumps considerably - but now it is the additional lac- genes which are holding the organism back , destabilising the chromosome and tying up resources which could be more efficiently processed by the lac+ gene . Selection now favours those lac+ revertants who lose the unstable lac- duplications . By the time the microcolonies become visible to the naked eye , they consist almost entirely of lac+ revertants . This hypothesis agrees with all observations related to the earlier experiments , and was verified in a number of ways , including repeating the experiment with a colony composed entirely of duplicate lac- bacteria , increasing the number of microcolonies 100-fold , which tallies with the ~1 % background rate of chromosomal duplications in those bacteria . Also , bacteria in the late-arriving microcolonies were observed to possess residual duplicate lac- genes . In short , the results of the experiment agree completely with classical evolutionary theory . It should be noted , by the way , that in addition to the late-arriving 'directed mutation ' microcolonies that causes such a stir , the original experimenters also observed the expected number of early-appearing colonies from pre-plating revertant mutants , a la L & amp ; D. EDIT : Reading further around the subject , it seems no stress-induced hypermutable state was involved either . Apparently , 10-20 % of the bacteria with lac- duplications also possessed 'dinB ' ( a mutation-promoting gene apparently , though it 's beyond the scope of my research here ) on the same plasmid . The mutagen 'came along for the ride ' so to speak , as selection favoured the duplication of that section of DNA , and induced hgher rates of mutation in - yep - 10-20 % of the adaptive population . So not only was the hypermutational state of that subpopulation not the cause of the adaptive mutation ( clearly , since the other 80-90 % of adaptation happened without it ) , it was actually harmful . Live n learn ! 2ND EDIT : The same experiment yields similar results with lac- situated within the chromosome itself , only with 100-fold fewer colonies , reflecting the lower incidence of chromosomal duplication and reversion events in comparison with plasmids .""",DISAGREE,"""Under these circumstances [ stress-induced hyper-mutation ] , as per EAM , [ above ] , it has been repeatedly demonstrated""","""On the face of it , the implication is that this kind of thing happens all the time""",,
19860,5252,"""No , it 's not safe . What 's your point ?""","""I believe it to be safe .""",DISAGREE,"""No , it 's not safe . What 's your point ?""","""I believe it to be safe .""",,
19861,5252,"""No , it 's not safe . What 's your point ?""","""I believe it to be safe .""",DISAGREE,"""No , it 's not safe . What 's your point ?""","""I believe it to be safe .""",,
19866,5253,"""Ummm because those policies were enacted in an attempt to even out the playing field . I assume you felt it was already even and therefore unnecessary or is that an example of conservative bias ?""","""I believe that equality means equality of opportunity , not forced results . The firefighters in NE demonstrated that AA policies that punish fairness are unconstitutional , for instance .""",DISAGREE,"""those policies were enacted in an attempt to even out the playing field""","""I believe that equality means equality of opportunity , not forced results The firefighters in NE demonstrated that AA policies that punish fairness are unconstitutional""",,
19883,5257,"""Originally posted by Debater I took a biology course at a local college which had a whole part of the class dedicated to evolution .""","""What did n't you learn in that class that we need to teach you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by Debater I took a biology course at a local college which had a whole part of the class dedicated to evolution .""","""What did n't you learn in that class that we need to teach you ?""",,
19884,5258,"""All too often those opposed to Intelligent Design simply reject any notion of God no matter how unemotional and rationality based that notion is .""","""Well , that 's your claim , anyway . Truth is that billions of theists accept evolutionary theory as is and reject the standard ID arguments .""",DISAGREE,"""All too often those opposed to Intelligent Design simply""","""that 's your claim , anyway""",,
19891,5259,"""And now a couple deeper questions ( by my standards )""","""And these are going to be what are the ultimate questions from a fundy . These are the questions that prove , if an evolutionist ca n't explain them in detail , that it is some unknown , magical , supreme being that is responsible by some unknown , supernatural means .""",DISAGREE,"""a couple deeper questions""","""These are the questions that prove , if an evolutionist ca n't explain them in detail , that it is some unknown , magical , supreme being""",,
19894,5260,"""You would if it 's later discovered the registration database was hacked , as it has been in other countries .""","""There 's a simpler explanation here though .""",DISAGREE,"""You would if it 's later discovered the registration database was hacked ,""","""There 's a simpler explanation here though .""",,
19908,5264,"""Can you find a bible believing church that agrees with them ? All Saints Episcopal Church ( Pasadena , California ) - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""","""The real dishonesty is in pretending that this church does n't believe in the Bible . Just because they do n't agree with YOUR interpretation of the bible does n't mean they do n't believe in the bible . We could look at `` women 's rights `` issues as well . The bible is quite explicit in how women should behave and what their role in society is . They are NOT to have positions of authority over men . NO women teachers . Women are to learn in silence and subservience . Can we declare that churches out there that do n't hold to these draconian measures as `` not believing in the bible `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""Can you find a bible believing church that agrees with them ? All Saints Episcopal Church""","""Can we declare that churches out there that do n't hold to these draconian measures as `` not believing in the bible `` ?""",,
19928,5268,"""It is commonly claimed by secular scientists that creationism is a  “ science stopper. ” The contention is that to ascribe anything ( e.g. , the origin of living organisms ) to the direct action of God is to cut off all scientific inquiry . This seems such simple common sense that it has been very persuasive . Nevertheless , it is not difficult to show that the argument is fallacious . A number of general points can be made . First , the argument is based on ignorance of all the different ways in which Christian faith can enter into science and of how fruitful these have been . After all , many of the great scientists of the past were committed Christians and many of those were consciously exploring the implications of their Christian faith for science . Second , whereas the direct action of God may cut off one type of explanation , others will remain and may even be enhanced . To say that God created the different kinds of animals and plants certainly cuts off explanation in terms of evolutionary continuity . However , it leaves wide-open scientific investigation of every other pattern of relationship ( ecological , developmental , etc . ) between these kinds . Scientists have been so indoctrinated in the belief that all patterns can only be explained historically in terms of the happenstances of Darwinian evolution that many wouldn ’ t even know how to look for explanations in other terms . Third , there is abundant documentation of the fact that evolutionary naturalism has often stopped scientific research . To take just one example , the evolutionary assumption that certain organs or features are vestigial has often long delayed the ( fruitful ) research into their functions . More specifically , one can appeal to experience and this is where this essay becomes a personal testimony to the scientific fruitfulness of a commitment to creation . During my undergraduate days when my  “ heretical ” views became known , my professor ( Otto Lowenstein , Professor of Zoology ) made a point of telling me that no creationist would be allowed to do research in his department ! However , he did allow me to do research . From the pressure that was put on me , I can only assume that it was thought that I could be convinced of the error of my ways . If that was the intention , then it badly backfired . Many a visiting scholar was brought into my laboratory to convince me , from their area of expertise , that evolution was indisputably true . Of course , hardly knowing their field , I never had an answer at the time , but after they had gone I would look up the relevant research and carefully analyze it . I always found that the evolutionist case was much weaker than it had seemed and that alternative creationist interpretations were available which were just as or more convincing . My position was further strengthened by the results of my own research .""","""http : //www.answersingenesis.org/home/Area/isd/jones.asp When Judge John Jones of Dover Pa. was considering evidence from persuasive evolutionists concerning what should be taught in schools , could it be that he `` hardly knew the field , and did n't have an answer `` that would fit the time constraints of his decision making ? Did judge John Jones know what was going on in this country 100 years ago ? Why ca n't today 's ID opposing evolutionists see the mistake religious people made 100 years ago , and be enlightened enough to be more open minded about trying to suppress ideas ? Maybe because human nature does n't improve over the generations - following the money always comes first .""",DISAGREE,"""It is commonly claimed by secular scientists that creationism is a  science stopper. The contention is that to ascribe anything ( e.g. , the origin of living organisms ) to the direct action of God is to cut off all scientific inquiry . This seems such simple common sense that it has been very persuasive . Nevertheless , it is not difficult to show that the argument is fallacious . A number of general points can be made .""","""When Judge John Jones of Dover Pa. was considering evidence from persuasive evolutionists concerning what should be taught in schools , could it be that he `` hardly knew the field , and did n't have an answer `` that would fit the time constraints of his decision making ?""",,
19940,5270,"""A textbook description of a democrat !""","""Liberal , not Democrat . Believe it or not , there are pro-gun `` thinking `` Democrats .""",DISAGREE,"""A textbook description of a democrat !""","""Liberal , not Democrat . Believe it or not , there are pro-gun `` thinking `` Democrats .""",,
19952,5273,"""The Creation Museum , like Creation magazine , the radio program Answers Â… with Ken Ham , and the other outreaches of Answers in Genesis , is dedicated to giving people real answers about the scientific , religious , philosophical and ethical debates of our day . Christians can have real , meaty answers to the evolutionary attacks on God ’ s Word .""","""What , pray , is a real answer ? Because , you know , if it is anything like a corrcect answer you are doing a rather poor job of it , mate .""",DISAGREE,"""and the other outreaches of Answers in Genesis , is dedicated to giving people real answers about the scientific , religious , philosophical and ethical debates of our day . Christians can have real , meaty answers to the evolutionary attacks on God ’ s Word .""","""What , pray , is a real answer ? Because , you know , if it is anything like a corrcect answer you are doing a rather poor job of it , mate .""",,
19959,5275,"""Even the ones that are destined to go extinct without producing any `` daughter `` species ? Apeart from that quibble though , you are right . But do n't tell the creationsts ; it 'll only confuse them""","""Well , ok. You 're right . Now that I think about it , `` missing links `` and `` transitional fossils `` are n't really the same thing . All species are potentially transitional , in that if the line continues it will change eventually , maybe even split . But missing links are something different . It 's just a fossil that shows some relationship between other fossils and that 's really all .""",AGREE,"""Even the ones that are destined to go extinct without producing any `` daughter `` species ? Apeart from that quibble though , you are right .""","""Well , ok. You 're right . Now that I think about it , `` missing links `` and `` transitional fossils `` are n't really the same thing . All species are potentially transitional , in that if the line continues it will change eventually , maybe even split . But missing links are something different""",,
19963,5276,"""( Death spike for ToE right there )""","""So , how many times have you said this ? Also , does it appear to be working ?""",DISAGREE,"""( Death spike for ToE right there )""","""how many times have you said this ? Also , does it appear to be working ?""",,
19974,5278,"""let G = `` God exists `` 1 . G - > [ ] G ? G implies G is necessarily true 2 . ~ [ ] ~G ? it is possible that G is true 3 . [ ] G - > G ? same as 1 , G being necessarily true implies G is true 4 . ~ [ ] G - > [ ] ~ [ ] G ? ~ [ ] G implies ~ [ ] G is necessarily true ( same app from 1 ) 5 . [ ] G v ~ [ ] G ? either [ ] G is is true or not ( excluded middle ) 6 . [ ] G v [ ] ~ [ ] G ? Substitution from 4 and 5 7 . [ ] ~ [ ] G - > [ ] ~G ? flip 4 ( as in flipping 1 to get 3 ) 8 . [ ] G v [ ] ~G ? Substitution from 6 and 7 9 . [ ] G ? from 2 , we can eliminate [ ] ~G from 8 10 . G ? from 3""","""let me try to translate into words 1. if there is a god in this world , there is a god in all worlds 2. there being a god is a possibility 3 . If there 's a god in all worlds , there 's a god in this one 4 . There not being a god in all worlds implies that there 's is n't a god in any world ( all or nothing ) 5 . There is either a god in all worlds or there is n't a god in all worlds 6. from 4,5 there either is a god in all worlds or no god in any world 7. if there 's no god in this world then there 's not a god in all worlds 8 . There 's either a god in all worlds or there is no god in any world . 9 . Since god is a possibility we know the statement < there is no god in any world > is false . 10 . Since there 's a god in all worlds there 's a god in this one from 3 Is this the right interpretation ? If it is there is one flaw in it . # 9 is flawed . Just because there 's a possibility of a god does n't mean that there is a god in some world , just that there 's a possibility of him being in some world .""",DISAGREE,"""we can eliminate [ ] ~G from 8 10 . G ? from 3""","""let me try to translate into words""",,
19978,5279,"""The cell is much more complex than we could have imagined only a few years ago .""","""So ? You 're displaying the very rational as Animists . ID can be summed up in one phrase : Stuff Complex , Therefore God . If you accept ID , you must accept Animist , or you are a hypocrite .""",DISAGREE,"""The cell is much more complex than we could have imagined only a few years ago .""","""You 're displaying the very rational as Animists .""",,
19976,5279,"""The cell is much more complex than we could have imagined only a few years ago .""","""So ? You 're displaying the very rational as Animists . ID can be summed up in one phrase : Stuff Complex , Therefore God . If you accept ID , you must accept Animist , or you are a hypocrite .""",DISAGREE,"""The cell is much more complex than we could have imagined only a few years ago .""","""If you accept ID , you must accept Animist , or you are a hypocrite .""",,
19989,5281,"""The cumulative Codon Usage Frequency of any codon is strongly dependent on the cumulative Codon Usage Frequency of other codons belonging to the same species . The rules of this codon dependency are the same for all species and reflect WC base pair complementarity . This internal connectivity of codons indicates that all synonymous codons are integrated parts of the Genetic Code with equal importance in maintaining its functional integrity . The so-called codon bias is a bias caused by the protein-centric view of the genome .""","""The maintenance of the integrity of the code is not dependent on selection , but dependent on internal variables ( feedback system ) for maintaining functional integrity . Again , showing another form of optimality . In article 10 : Fascinating research was conducted whereby a sundry of different unnatural amino acids with novel three and four base codons have been selectively incorporated ( engineered ) into proteins yielding viable organisms . An intriguing question arises from this research . It is easy to imagine these to arise through chance and selection ( e.g . amino acids with photoaffinity ) and then be incorporated into the standard code . Yet the code seems to remain stagnant . For billions of year after fixation , little evolution happened in the code . Why ? Did it arrive at a global optimum in a pre-existing fitness landscape , with a pre-existing fitness function ? Finally , Article 11 : The article cites many of the optimal properties above and concludes :""",DISAGREE,"""The rules of this codon dependency are the same for all species and reflect WC base pair complementarity""","""The maintenance of the integrity of the code is not dependent on selection ,""",,
19997,5283,"""Will this be used to support gun control ? If he had n't had a gun they might all be alive today ... or he might have drowned the children , strangled his wife and jumped off a bridge . I say the gun made little difference in the final outcome .""","""But a gun makes things so much easier , does n't it ? We 'll never know if he 'd been up to it without one . Guns make for capable cowards .""",DISAGREE,"""Will this be used to support gun control ? If he had n't had a gun . the gun made little difference in the final outcome""","""But a gun makes things so much easier , does n't it ? Guns make for capable cowards .""",,
20007,5285,"""you could just as eazely not exist if you parents had chosen to abstain , and you wouldent have had any choice in the matter .""","""you would have never existed though .... not cease to exist""",DISAGREE,"""you could just as eazely not exist if you parents had chosen to abstain""","""you would have never existed though .... not cease to exist""",,
20005,5285,"""you could just as eazely not exist if you parents had chosen to abstain , and you wouldent have had any choice in the matter .""","""you would have never existed though .... not cease to exist""",DISAGREE,"""could just as eazely not exist if you parents had chosen to abstain , and you wouldent have had any choice in the""","""you would have never existed though .... not cease to exist""",,
20017,5287,"""In Nazi Germany , Hitler made it legal to kill or harm Jews . So , Crim , according to your terrible logic , then that was not a crime ?""","""Terrible logic ? It 's called a DEFINITION . Crimes are illegal actions .""",DISAGREE,"""kill or harm Jews terrible logic""","""Terrible logic ? illegal actions""",,
20021,5288,"""However , on Tuesday , on ABC 's `` Good Morning America , `` Pelosi said , `` we [ members of Congress ] have to find some level of compromise `` on guns . She noted that the Supreme Court , in District of Columbia v. Heller , ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to guns . But , she said , `` We want them registered. `` Pelosi also used the word `` draconian `` to describe legislation before Congress to reform D.C. 's gun laws . Apparently referring to the provision of that legislation that would permit residents of D.C. to buy handguns in Maryland and Virginia , Pelosi added , `` we do n't want them crossing state lines. `` Meanwhile , Sen. Dianne Feinstein ( D-Calif. ) , the Senate sponsor of the now-expired federal `` assault weapons `` ban , said on a CBS `` 60 Minutes `` program to be aired on Sunday that she is only temporarily holding off on introducing legislation to reinstate the ban . '' I 'll pick the time and place . No question about it , `` Feinstein said .""","""Gun writer Jeff Snider point out . Obama : No AWB for Now ?""",DISAGREE,"""However , on Tuesday , on ABC 's `` Good Morning America , `` Pelosi said , `` we [ members of Congress ] have to find some level of compromise `` on guns . She noted that the Supreme Court , in District of Columbia v. Heller , ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to guns . But , she said , `` We want them registered. `` Pelosi also used the word `` draconian `` to describe legislation before Congress to reform D.C. 's gun laws . ''""","""Gun writer Jeff Snider point out . Obama : No AWB for Now ?""",,
20034,5290,"""To reiterate : his error is in forgetting that the universe operates according to its own axioms , whatever they may be , and we can judge whether or not our axioms are congruent .""","""Except that in some things , Ham and others can not so judge . Their axioms are , by their lights , not congruent with reality but an accurate description of it . Note two standard responses where there is an apparent incongruity : we 've misinterpreted what the bible says * ; or , this will all be explained at the end of days . In all other contexts , we 'd describe such people as insane , of course . Here we merely deem them pious . * Note that , for the literalists , `` firmament `` became `` expanse `` once we knew that the heavens were not a solid object into which stars could be affixed .""",DISAGREE,"""his error is in forgetting that the universe operates according to its own axioms ,""","""Their axioms are , by their lights , not congruent with reality but an accurate description of it""",,
20035,5291,"""i will pray for you all right now""","""Why ? Statistical testing can not show something that is nonsensical to be either valid or invalid ( prayer in this case ) 1 . Why would god be random in his choices ? If he is random , why bother praying in the first place ? 2 . You could never actually verifiy that someone else somewhere in the world , or universe , was n't praying for your control group , it simply could n't be accurately tested . 3 . What are we testing anyway ? Nothing supernatural can be tested rationally , it 's by definition irrational . * 4 . OK , assume prayer is just `` positive thought `` whatever that means . Now , flip a coin 100 times and pray for heads every time . Statistical difference ? no . How about write a quick random # generator to cycle through 10,000 coin flips and pray for heads every time . Find anything ? * ( If you really think you CAN show an entirely random system can be influence to be non-random through prayer alone , do n't tell me , tell Randy for $ 1 MILLION dollars ! PS . You can not : / ) http : //www.randi.org/ ========================================== unless : 1 . You are doing so for the joy of performing the action . 2 . Other 's actually `` like `` you praying for them , or saying you pray for them , and you like the social `` brownie points `` you get by saying it . ( Thanks thebootfitter for asking for clarification ! ) -Mach""",DISAGREE,"""i will pray for you all right now""","""What are we testing anyway ? . Other 's actually `` like `` you praying for them , or saying you pray for them ,""",,
20051,5294,"""Hey everyone im new to the whole creation vs evolution thing . I do n't really know where i stand but i have a question . In the theory of evolution , what did it all start with ? Was it hydrodgen atoms that created the big bang ? Sorry I 'm just trying to learn more .""","""There is not one theory , but a great many to choose from . If you 're talking about the origins of life , many evolutionists believe in abiogenesis - that life somehow just came about out of non-life . Some will say that evolution and abiogenesis are two distinct theories , but there 's a lot of cross-over ; begun with Charles Darwin himself who postulated a primordial soup . Miller-Urey did experiments to try to concoct how life began in a primordial soup of their own design . They failed in essence to demonstrate how life could emerge from non-life through natural means . ( Many work on the philosophy that life came about and evolved through naturalistic , or materialistic processes ) It leads people such as Nobel-winner Francis Crick to come up with certain strange notions ; Panspermia , of which , his version just shifts the problem , rather than answers it . ( see below under PANSPERMIA ) Intelligent Design theorists suggest that some intelligence ; possibly , but not exclusively a deity is behind nature ; that nature seems to have an order . Some here too casually dismiss ID from science but the door 's already open to science SETI looks for ID Cryptographers do to Forensic scientists do THEORIES OF LIFE ... PANSPERMIA Panspermia is the idea that life came from outer space . As with all theories this too is not homogenous . There 's a general panspermia theory , and a 'directed ' panspermia theory . The former is a belief that life came here by random chance , such as on a meteor . The later is that life came here at the behest of an intelligence - such as aliens directing ships to earth laden with the molecules of life . One idea is that the building blocks of life  “ ... Bakes said nitrogenated aromatics exist throughout the Milky Way galaxy. ” http : //www.spacedaily.com/news/life-04zw.html `` Francis Crick also thinks that life on earth may have begun when aliens from another planet sent a rocket ship containing spores to seed the earth . This is no idle thought ; Crick first proposed it with chemist Leslie Orgel in 1973 in an article entitled `` Directed Panspermia `` in a professional science journal called Icarus . A decade later Crick wrote a book , Life Itself , reiterating the theory ; in a 1992 interview in Scientific American on the eve of the publication of his latest book , Crick reaffirmed that he things the theory is reasonable. `` ( Behe , M , `` Darwin 's Black Box `` , p238 ) which as I said , simply moves the problem to 'where did the aliens come from ? ' '' COMPLEXITY THEORY Stuart Kauffman , a theoretical biologist at the Sante Fe Institute , has put forth the idea that when the necessary elements of the cell formed in the primordial soup ( nucleotides , lipids , and amino acids ) , they were instantaneously integrated into a system , a system which we know as the cell ( Cohen , 1996 ) . Kauffman says this was not due to a miracle or chance , but was bound to occur . He rejects other scientists ' need to find some sort of genetic carrier like RNA or DNA , or even an aperiodic solid , saying that the life forms may have had no need for them . ( An aperiodic solid is one in which the atoms are arranged in some non-repeatable geometric pattern , such as a helix , that would allow for the variation within the structure that is necessary for genetic material ) . He believes that such genetic carriers could have evolved after the new life was already flourishing . Kauffman has even designed a computer model that shows that when a few organic molecules have developed some catalytic skills and reach the necessary level of diversity , then they spontaneously form an `` autocatalytic set `` ( a life form ) . His theory is based on the general complexity theory , which states that when a system reaches some critical level of complexity , it will naturally produce a degree of complex order ( 4 ) . `` http : //www.lifesci.utexas.edu/cours ... 2/JENNIFER.html A. G. Cairns-Smith 's Callisto Theory : That life began from a type of living-clay Richard Dawkins says of this `` Cairns-Smith believes that the original life on this planet was based on self-replicating inorganic crystals such as silicates . If this is true , organic replicators , and eventually DNA , must later have taken over or usurped the role. `` http : //originoflife.net/cairns_smith/ `` Other Theories In spite of the intense level of work on the RNA world in the last decade , there is no true consensus theory for precellular life . There are many theories . Here are some of the others ? A few scientists still say that DNA could succeed in starting life on its way ( 11 ) . But even the shortest DNA strand needs proteins to help it replicate . This is the chicken-and-egg problem . There is a `` proteins first `` school . For example , Manfred Eigen of Germany 's Max Planck Institute says , `` There is no doubt that proteins , which are more easily formed , were first on the scene `` ( 11.5 ) . Of course , these first proteins must be much shorter than any used in life today , because of the sheer unlikelihood of forming useful long ones out of a soup of amino acids . Physicist Freeman Dyson proposes to solve the chicken-and-egg problem with a double origin , one for metabolism ( proteins ) and one for replication ( strands of nucleotides ) ( 12 ) . In Seven Clues to the Origin of Life ( 13 ) , A. G. Cairns-Smith says that clay crystals could have served as the scaffolding upon which the first short DNA or RNA genome was constructed . A new elaboration of this idea prompted one writer to wonder , `` Primordial soup or crêpes ? `` ( 14 ) . Even more recently , another tangent on this path leads to zeolite ( 14.5 ) . Biologists Harold J. Morowitz ( 15 ) , David Deamer ( 16 ) , and others ( 17 ) , advocate a theory that could be paraphrased as `` containers first. `` Jeffrey L. Bada of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography holds the minority view that the early Earth was frozen and believes precellular life started in `` cold soup `` under the ice ( 18 , 19 ) . Chemists Claudia Huber and Günter Wächtershäuser say the soup where life originated was actually quite hot , probably , near undersea volcanic vents , where iron and nickel sulfides might catalyze some of the necessary reactions ( 19.5-19.7 ) . Cornell Astronomer Thomas Gold wonders if life might have originated in a hot environment even deeper , in Earth 's crust ( 19.8 ) . Stuart Kauffman of the Santa Fe Institute , says , `` ... whenever a collection of molecules contains enough different kinds of molecules , a metabolism will crystallize from the broth `` ( 20 ) . Another idea is the `` PNA world. `` Because starting the RNA world is so difficult , there probably needs to be a pre-RNA world . PNA , or peptide nucleic acid , might have some of the properties necessary to constitute that world ( 21 ) . This would be pre-precellular life. `` http : //www.panspermia.org/rnaworld.htm ADDENDUM If you 're interested in aliens , check out `` The Science of Aliens `` by Clifford A. Pickover . A review is given at http : //sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/soa.htm""",AGREE,"""In the theory of evolution , what did it all start with ? Was it hydrodgen atoms that created the big bang ?""","""There is not one theory , but a great many to choose from . If you 're talking about the origins of life""",,
20057,5296,"""If the foundation upon which evo is based is false , such as the age of the Earth and the interpretation of fossil information . Then all of the conclusions that are derived from those original faulty conclusions is as wrong as wrong can be , and as deceptive as deceptive can be .""","""And if wishes were horses ... You 've no evidence , AA . None at all . Nothing in the natural world disputes the great age of the earth . Do n't you find that in the least bit remarkable , if it really is a few thousand years old ? Would n't something fail to jibe ? Read my challenge in the debate section : why does n't our earth look like the one in my thought experiment ?""",DISAGREE,"""If the foundation upon which evo is based is false , such as the age of the Earth and the interpretation of fossil information""","""And if wishes were horses ... You 've no evidence , AA . None at all . Nothing in the natural world disputes the great age of the earth .""",,
20102,5304,"""Another oft-repeated lie .""","""Did someone give you a wedgie ? It is in black and white in numerous sources not counting the detailed accounts from your own countrymen . Methinks you stand accused all alone ?""",DISAGREE,"""Another oft-repeated lie .""","""It is in black and white in numerous sources not counting the detailed accounts from your own countrymen .""",,
20112,5306,"""Correct me if iIm wrong but I thought entropy was the tendency of all things to go toward dissorder . For instance you can not take a bunch of watch parts , shake them up in a box and expect them to eventually assemble themselves properly wound and calibrated right with enough shakes and enough time . These things just dont happen . They are impossible . All of the watch pieces would become more and more random but never more ordered . So I find it hard to believe that one cell gained more and more intelligence or whatever to evolve into all living thing s that we know of today . There isnt a single natrural process that creates that information that we see in DNA , the information for how all things are put together , that would have had to have been present in order for that single cell to replicate itself and evolve . Life is a creation not an evolution . It is also hard for me to believe that out of nothing came something . I have wondered what evolutionsists say about what was going on befor the `` big bang `` that allowed for whatever it was that started the `` big bang `` to come into being . I would like to know what evolutionists say was going on prior to the `` big bang. `` Its jus that I have never heard a whole lot said about that . So if anyone could help me out in either of these subjects I have just discussed it would be much appreciated .""","""i will correct you since you are wrong . actually , let me just point you to a website that came from folks that have been fed up with entropy 's comparison to disorder simply because it causes confusion , this website has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution http : //www.entropysite.com/ http : //www.entropysite.com/students_approach.html here is another one http : //www.entropylaw.com/index.html ( this one may have been motivated by c vs. e but is no less accurate ) this page oughta confuse a few creationists : http : //www.entropylaw.com/entropyproduction.html""",DISAGREE,"""Correct me if iIm wrong""","""i will correct you since you are wrong .""",,
20109,5306,"""Correct me if iIm wrong but I thought entropy was the tendency of all things to go toward dissorder . For instance you can not take a bunch of watch parts , shake them up in a box and expect them to eventually assemble themselves properly wound and calibrated right with enough shakes and enough time . These things just dont happen . They are impossible . All of the watch pieces would become more and more random but never more ordered . So I find it hard to believe that one cell gained more and more intelligence or whatever to evolve into all living thing s that we know of today . There isnt a single natrural process that creates that information that we see in DNA , the information for how all things are put together , that would have had to have been present in order for that single cell to replicate itself and evolve . Life is a creation not an evolution . It is also hard for me to believe that out of nothing came something . I have wondered what evolutionsists say about what was going on befor the `` big bang `` that allowed for whatever it was that started the `` big bang `` to come into being . I would like to know what evolutionists say was going on prior to the `` big bang. `` Its jus that I have never heard a whole lot said about that . So if anyone could help me out in either of these subjects I have just discussed it would be much appreciated .""","""i will correct you since you are wrong . actually , let me just point you to a website that came from folks that have been fed up with entropy 's comparison to disorder simply because it causes confusion , this website has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution http : //www.entropysite.com/ http : //www.entropysite.com/students_approach.html here is another one http : //www.entropylaw.com/index.html ( this one may have been motivated by c vs. e but is no less accurate ) this page oughta confuse a few creationists : http : //www.entropylaw.com/entropyproduction.html""",DISAGREE,"""Correct me if iIm wrong thought entropy was the tendency of all things to go toward dissorder Life is a creation not an evolution""","""i will correct you since you are wrong . a website that came from folks that have been fed up with entropy 's comparison to disorder has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution""",,
20136,5309,"""I 've met few people who had no abortion exceptions :""","""Now that 's just scary , I must say .""",AGREE,"""I 've met few people who had no abortion exceptions :""","""Now that 's just scary , I must say .""",,
20158,5311,"""Last I checked , drug prohibition began much earlier than the 1980s . The '80s fall in violent crime is more likely a result of the legalization of abortion than it is a result of the `` success of the war on drugs. ``""","""Demographics plays a role , but it does not explain away the whole shift in the numbers .""",DISAGREE,"""The '80s fall in violent crime is more likely a result of the legalization""","""Demographics plays a role , but it does not explain away the whole shift""",,
20161,5312,"""Since pandion can not answer the following question it I would like someone else to . Thanks in advance If my wife 's father was bald but my wife and her siblings show no signs of baldness , and if my father was not bald and neither of my siblings is but I am , what is the probability the my children will be bald . Please make sure that you address the issue of gender .""","""I can well believe that pandion can not answer this question ; no one can accurately answer it . We know that baldness , as a genetic condition , is polygenetic ( ie it 's controlled by multiple genes ) and autosomal ( the genes [ or at least the bulk of them ] do not reside on the X or Y chromosomes ) . Despite being autosomal , people appear statistically slightly more likely to exhibit balness if the trait comes from their mother 's side of the family . Even if we knew precisely which genes were involved and which of those genes your kids had , we still can not tell you the likihood of your children being bald . The chances of the gene combination being expressed in the correct way to cause baldness are dependent on age , hormone levels , stress and probably a variety of other environmental conditions .""",DISAGREE,"""Since pandion can not answer the following question it I would like someone else to If my wife 's father was bald but my wife and her siblings show no signs of baldness , and if my father was not bald and neither of my siblings is but I am , what is the probability the my children will be bald .""","""I can well believe that pandion can not answer this question ; no one can accurately answer it . We know that baldness , as a genetic condition , is polygenetic ( ie it 's controlled by multiple genes ) and autosomal ( the genes [ or at least the bulk of them ] do not reside on the X or Y chromosomes ) . Despite being autosomal , people appear statistically slightly more likely to exhibit balness if the trait comes from their mother 's side of the family . Even if we knew precisely which genes were involved and which of those genes your kids had , we still can not tell you the likihood of your children being bald . The chances of the gene combination being expressed in the correct way to cause baldness are dependent on age , hormone levels , stress and probably a variety of other environmental conditions .""",,
20191,5318,"""I survived an abortion attempt' Gianna Jessen 's mother was seven-and-a-half months pregnant when it was decided to abort the foetus she was carrying . A saline solution was injected into Gianna 's mother 's womb , which doctors thought would kill the foetus within hours . This time , most unusually , the procedure failed and Gianna was born alive , thanks in part to a shocked nurse . She was so taken aback by Gianna 's live delivery that she summoned an ambulance to whisk her from the abortion clinic to the hospital . She weighed only two pounds at birth and needed to stay in hospital for nearly three months . In an ironic twist of fate the abortionist had to sign her birth certificate . Now American-born Gianna , aged 28 , is in London to give her message against abortion .""","""Opinions ?""",DISAGREE,"""I survived an abortion Gianna Jessen 's mother was seven-and-a-half months pregnant""","""Opinions""",,
20198,5320,"""A lot of garbage has been bandied about concerning the emotional trauma a woman suffers after she has had an abortion . There is no substantive , unbiased research on this topic but a cursory sampling seems to indicate that women who report great emotional trauma after an abortion were already mentally unbalanced , possibly subject to depression or dramatic mood swings or other mental disturbances prior to becoming pregnant and having an abortion . I am inclined to believe that such emotionally-disturbed women are incapable of making a rational choice in many instances and they probably would have suffered enormous emotional consequences whatever choice they made . But , if one could survey a sizable group of women who were in command of their faculties and capable of making good and reasonable choices , what if these women experienced emotional trauma and greatly regretted their decisions . My first question to them would be , `` Why exactly did you choose abortion ? `` I would like to know if they were forced by poverty to make such a choice , thereby not having a free choice . Or , if they were forced because of the stigma against unwed motherhood and illegitimate birth , particularly if they came from a very religious household , to have an abortion to avoid shame both for themselves and for their families . Again , not a free choice . Another factor would be if a woman were pursuing a very desired career and having a child or being disabled by pregnancy would injure her professional prospects . The workplace does not look kindly upon the demands of pregnancy , giving birth , being responsible for children . America is not a very family-friendly nation and women who are responsible for the primary care of children are severely penalized for having those responsibilities . Again , these women do not have a free choice in the matter .""","""Just to provide some evidence of how incredibly shallow your liberal justifications and imaginings are , here 's some light reading for you simone . It 's from something called a book . CHAPTER 9 HEALTH MORE SPECIFICALLY , MENTAL HEALTH In discussing abortion , and abortion for the mother ’ s health , it is absolutely crucial to know what `` health `` means , legally and in practice , regarding abortion . '' Health `` was defined in detail by the U.S. Supreme Court . The Court said that abortion could be performed : `` . . . in the light of all factors — physical , emotion-al , psychological , familial , and the woman ’ s age — relevant to the well being of the patient . All these factors may relate to health. `` Roe vs. Wade , January 22 , 1973 And in its companion decision , `` Maternity or additional offspring may force upon the woman a distressful life and future . Psychological harm may be imminent . Mental and physical health may be taxed by childcare . There is also the distress for all concerned associated with the unwanted child , and there is the problem of bringing a child into a family already unable , psychologically or otherwise , to care for it. `` Doe vs. Bolton , January 22 , 1973 44 In a concurring opinion , Justice Douglas further elaborated what `` health `` meant when , in law , it related to abortion . He detailed if she had to : `` endure the discomforts of pregnancy ; to incur the pain , higher mortality rate , and aftereffects of childbirth ; to abandon educational plans ; to sustain loss of income ; to forego the satisfactions of careers ; to tax further mental and physical health in providing childcare , and in some cases , to bear the lifelong stigma of unwed motherhood. `` Roe vs. Wade , January 22 , 1973 This definition of `` health `` has been adopted internationally . As a result , in any nation , if abortion is al-lowed for the woman ’ s `` health , `` that country permits abortion on demand unless other aspects of its laws add restrictions . The World Health Organization of the United Nations defined it as including social , emotional and economic well being of the woman as defined by the woman herself . Let ’ s narrow it down to mental health , in the psychological sense , and ask–are there mental health reasons for abortion ? No ! The woman with mental health problems is far more likely to experience post-abortion emotional and psychological problems than a more stable woman . Four classic references here are these : `` Women with a history of psychiatric disturbance were three times as likely to have some psychiatric disturbance `` after an abortion as others who had no such history. `` E. Greenglass , `` Abortion & amp ; Psychiatric Disturbance , `` Canadian Psych . Assn . Jour. , vol . 21 , no . 7 , Nov. 1976 , pp . 453-459 Dr. Charles Ford and his associates at UCLA reported the same finding . '' The more serious the psychiatric diagnosis , the less beneficial was the abortion. `` C. Ford et al. , `` Abortion , Is It a Therapeutic Procedure in Psychiatry ? `` JAMA , vol . 218 , no . 8 , Nov. 22 , 1971 , pp . 1173-1178 `` The more severely ill the psychiatric patient , the worse is her post-abortion psychiatric state. `` E. Sandberg , `` Psychology of Abortion `` In Comprehensive Handbook of Psychiatry , 3rd ed . Kaplan & amp ; Friedman Publishers , 1980 All of these support the original official statement of the World Health Organization in 1970 : `` Serious mental disorders arise more often in women with previous mental problems . Thus , the very women for whom legal abortion is considered justified on psychiatric grounds are the ones who have the highest risk of post-abortion psychiatric disorders. `` Then `` mental illness `` as a reason for abortion is just an excuse ? Precisely . What about psychological problems after abortion ? When your authors wrote Handbook on Abortion in 1971 , there were a few murmurings about post-abortion problems , but little was known . We then saw the negatives as mostly physical . When we wrote Abortion : Questions & amp ; Answers in 1985 , physical damage , while still a major problem , was given less emphasis , and negative psychological aftermath was being seriously investigated . With the publication of this book , far more is known about what is now called Post Abortion Syndrome which clearly is a post traumatic stress syndrome . A Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome ? Yes . This type of problem was first seen in large numbers in Vietnam veterans , but did not manifest it-self until a decade after they returned . The same ten-year delay has been evident with abortion . T. Keane , Vietnam Vets Trauma disorder level at 15 % , Am . Med . News , L. Abraham , Dec. 2 , 1988 , p. 2 What is Post Abortion Syndrome ( PAS ) ? Many women are very ambivalent about getting aborted but do go ahead . Those around her told her ( and she told herself ) that it wouldn ’ t bother her . When symptoms occur , she tells herself it can ’ t be the abortion causing them , and then into play come her two major psychological defense mechanisms : Repression and Denial . For some this works successfully . For others it shades off to manageable distress , to severe and life-changing upset and even to suicide . There is a delay ? Yes ! Her initial response in most cases is a feeling of relief . Then , with repression and denial , she avoids the problem , usually for years —5 years is common , 10 or 20 not unusual . But then , for some , the negative feelings bubble up and break through . Often the precipitating event is : she has a baby , or a close friend or relative has a baby that she has close contact with . She finds out she is sterile , or other life-changing events . What are the symptoms of PAS ? Guilt is ever present in many guises , along with regret , remorse , shame , lowered self-esteem , insomnia , dreams and nightmares , flash backs , anniversary reactions . There often is hostility , and even hatred , toward men . This can include her husband , and she may be-come sexually dysfunctional . Crying , despair and depression are usual , even at times with suicide attempts . Recourse to alcohol or drugs to mask the pain is frequent , sometimes leading to sexual promiscuity . There is also a numbing and coldness in place of more normal warmth and maternal tenderness . Is this due to religious guilt feelings ? Perhaps in some it is a factor , but most women re-ported on in the early studies were unchurched at the time . Perhaps they had seen pictures of fetuses ? Again , not most . Most did not know `` it `` was a `` baby `` when they aborted . But I ’ ve heard that the American Psychological Association says that PAS doesn ’ t exist . This group has been strongly pro-abortion , and this definitely colors its thinking . But during the past decade or more , there have been dozens of national conferences on PAS . There are many professional articles and about 15 books adding more and more authentication to its existence and knowledge about it . Further , every one of the almost 4,000 pro-life pregnancy help centers in the U.S. now has found that an increasing percentage of their time is now devoted to treating PAS women . But so many studies deny PAS . True , and most are invalid for two reasons : ( 1 ) Timing : Most studies have investigated feelings for only a few weeks or months post abortion when she is still feeling relief that her problem is gone . Since the delay before PAS symptoms intrude is often 5 years or more , these studies are invalid . ( 2 ) Superficiality : Her repression and denial push this deep into her subconsciousness . If the survey is done by questionnaire or single interview , she routinely denies problems . These studies are invalid . Only by lengthy psychological testing and counseling can she often admit to some symptoms , much less tie them to the abortion she so desperately wants to forget . You mean most studies miss PAS ? But most polls show few emotional problems — only a sense of relief ! Yes , but `` What women really feel at the deepest level about abortion is very different from what they say in reply to questionnaires. `` A Canadian study polled a group of women who had previously completed a questionnaire in which they denied having problems from an abortion . One half of this group was randomly chosen for in-depth psychotherapy. `` What emerged from psychotherapy was in sharp contrast [ to the questionnaires ] , even when the woman had rationally considered abortion to be inevitable , the only course of action. `` It was demonstrated that the conscious , rationalized decision for an abortion can co-exist with profound rejection of it at the deepest level . Despite surface appearances , abortion leaves behind deeper feelings `` invariably of intense pain , involving bereavement and a sense of identification with the foetus. `` I. Kent et al. , `` Emotional Sequelae of Elective Abortion , `` British College of Med . Jour. , vol . 20 , no . 4 , April 1978 I. Kent , `` Abortion Has Profound Impact , `` Family Practice News , June 1980 , p. 80 Are there valid studies ? Yes , and two meta-analyses : James Rogers , who carefully examined over 400 published studies , pointed to the almost universal use of `` poor methodology and research design `` and `` grossly substandard power characteristics. `` He concluded that `` the question of psychological sequelae of abortion is not closed. `` J. Rogers et al. , `` Validity of Existing Controlled Studies Examining the Psychological Sequelae of Abortion , `` Perspectives on Science and Christian Faith , vol . 39 , no . 1 , Mar . 1987 , pp . 20-29 49 Another concurred that existing research is methodologically flawed and that women who abort show more negative outcomes than those who deliver their babies . E. Posavac et al. , `` Some Problems . . . Psychological Effects of Abortion , `` Psychology & amp ; Health , 5 , 13-23 How about specific studies ? An excellent study thoroughly explaining and documenting PAS by the team that named this entity is : A. Speckhard & amp ; V. Rue , Post . Ab . Syndrome : An Emerging Public Health Concern , J. of Soc . Issues , vol . 48 , no . 3 , 1992 and E.J . Angelo , Psych . Sequelae of Abortion , Linacre Quart . vol . 59:2 , May 1992 and P. Ney et al. , Mental Health & amp ; Abortion , Psychiat . Jour. , U. of Ottawa , vol . 14 , no . 4 , 1989 and L. DeVeber et al. , Post Abortion Grief , Psychol . Sequel . of Ab. , Humane Med. , Vol . 7 , no . 3 , Aug.  ’ 91 , p. 203 Two excellent monographs are : J. Brende , Post-Trauma Sequelae .. Abortion .. , Trauma Rec . Pub. , 458 Morning Glory Dr. , Sparta , GA 31087 V. Rue , Post Abortion Trauma , Life Dynamics , 1994 , P.O . Box 185 , Lewisville , TX 75067 Also a quarterly newsletter from the Association for Interdisciplinary Research in Values & amp ; Social Change available from NRLC , 419 7th St. NW , Washington , DC 20004 . Does it ever lead to suicide ? Suicide is rare among pregnant women , but much more common after induced abortion . It is never re-ported under maternal mortality from abortion , of course , even though it is causative . '' The suicide rate after an abortion was three times the general suicide rate and six times that associated with birth .... the rate for women following a live birth was 5.9 per 100,000 ; following miscarriage 18.1 ; following abortion 34.7. `` They note that women frequently get short term `` post-natal blues after having a baby , but that this rarely translates into suicide , and that the initial stress of having a child is transitional , the over-all effect having a positive effect on women ’ s health. `` M. Gissler , Abortion/Suicide Link , Br . Med . J. , Dec. 6 , 1996 Then it is rare among pregnant women ? In Abortion : Questions & amp ; Answers your authors de-tail 5 studies clearly showing this . One comment may suffice : `` The fetus in utero must be a protective mechanism . Perhaps women are reluctant to take another life with them when they do this. `` How about after abortion ? In the above book your authors also give the findings of Suiciders Anonymous , and that : suicide post-abortion is several times more common than post-delivery . British Medical Jour. , 1996 What of Psychosis afterwards ? This has not changed since Dr. M. Sims ’ original paper . He stated that , compared to post-delivery disturbances , post-abortion psychoses are much more serious , last longer , and are more likely to recur . They are more often the `` hard `` cases . M. Sim , `` Abortion and the Psychiatrist , `` British Med . Jour. , vol . 2 , 1963 , pp . 145-148 How about an example from a non-Christian culture ? In Japan , where abortion has been legal and accepted for over four decades , a common custom is to conduct Mizuyo Kuyo services in honor of the god Jizo . This god has been made the patron saint of infants who died of starvation , abortion , or infanticide . Small baby statues , in his honor , are bought and dressed . Then , in a Buddhist Temple , rites of sorrow and reconciliation are carried out . Does abortion have any negative effects on her other children ? In some cases a definite `` Survivor Syndrome `` has been demonstrated . Children usually know that mother is pregnant . They also know when she `` gets unpregnant. `` This may cause Survivor ’ s Syndrome , similar to that of Jews who survived the holocaust . It is an irrational but real guilt at `` why was I saved and why were they killed. `` Dr. Ney has written about this . Dr. Edward Sheridan of Georgetown University has observed also a fear and mistrust of the mother . Originally , a small child , sensing a sibling ’ s arrival , doesn ’ t welcome it . '' When the baby suddenly disappears , the frightened child may get a warped sense of his own power to  ‘ will people away. ’ Or , if he knows that his mother was an active agent in doing away with the sibling , he begins to fear her. `` A simple explanation of this was published in : L. Bond , `` The Surviving Sibling , `` Nat ’ l RTL News , Sept. 25 , 1986 . It is also closely associated with child abuse : Dr. Phillip Ney , Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Christ Church , New Zealand , and of later at the University of Calgary , Canada , while still at the University of British Columbia , published a widely read study of this . His analysis clearly pointed to the fact that abortion ( and its acceptance of the violence of killing the unborn ) lowered a parent ’ s psychic resistance to violence and abuse of the born . P. Ney , `` Relationship Between Abortion & amp ; Child Abuse , `` Canada Jour . Psychiatry , vol . 24 , 1979 , pp . 610-620 Is there treatment for PAS ? Yes , but it is not easy . We first must note that only a few doctors are sensitized to the necessary dynamics of treatment . Specifically , most psychiatrists and psychologists aren ’ t much help , nor are psychotropic drugs . This requires a gradual healing process , and during it she must have ongoing close emotional support from one or several people who do not have to be trained professionals . As of the late 1990s , the place to start is your pro-life pregnancy help center . They can either work with her themselves and/or will know who can . Basically , there are five steps to the healing process : ( 1 ) Counter the denial . Bring this back into her consciousness and admit she was a party to killing her own baby . She must grieve over her lost child — tears , mourning as for another loved one . ( 3 ) Seek Divine forgiveness . This was not expected but seems essential for almost every woman . ( 4 ) Forgive others . Difficult , again , but some of this is needed to complete the healing and get rid of her long repressed anger . ( 5 ) Forgive herself . Not many get this far , but those who do have real inner peace . What is absolutely crucial at every step in the above is compassionate empathy , support and understanding from one or more persons around her . J. Willke , P.A.S . Five Steps on How You Can Help , Life Issues Connector , Mar . 1996Post Abortion Syndrome - Index Page .""",DISAGREE,"""lot of garbage has been bandied about concerning the emotional trauma a woman suffers after she has had an abortion""","""woman a distressful life and future . Psychological harm may be imminent . Mental and physical health may be taxed by childcare .""",,
20210,5323,"""Because it is a bulleted list .... Surely you have Microsoft Word on your computer . Open it up .... go to Format and you will see `` bullets and numbering `` as it is a way to do a list .""","""Oh , i thought `` bullet `` was some sort of slang term . Never mind .""",DISAGREE,"""Because it is a bulleted list""","""Oh , i thought `` bullet `` was some sort of slang term .""",,
20212,5324,"""Can you please explain how my views on gun control reveal that I 'm racist . Have I proposed a law which would restrict gun usage for only a certain race ?""","""Again ? ? ? ? Gun control laws by design are meant to kept inner city citizens ( i.e . black ) from owning guns ... Liberal terms such as `` saturday night special `` all have racist undertones . Also since the majority of gun violence in the US is minority on minority ... Who are these laws meant to target ?""",DISAGREE,"""Have I proposed a law which would restrict gun usage for only a certain race ?""","""Also since the majority of gun violence in the US is minority on minority""",,
20217,5325,"""One of the quotes in your signature is- `` The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is , as a last resort , to protect themselves against tyranny in government . -Thomas Jefferson `` But this is a bogus quote . http : //www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html Why do you use a bogus quote ?""","""That 's the best you could do ? There 's the other three and here 's a bonus one : 'To disarm the people is the best , most effectual way , to enslave them . ' - George Mason""",DISAGREE,"""this is a bogus""","""That 's the best you could do ? There 's the other three""",,
20236,5329,"""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""","""Those books were written by people in BC times . People didnt understand the things we do now , so they tried to find another explanation for these events . Furthermore , i think the bible is a book of fables and fiction , i dont think it was intended to be a book taken literally .""",DISAGREE,"""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""","""Those books were written by people in BC times .""",,
20233,5329,"""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""","""Those books were written by people in BC times . People didnt understand the things we do now , so they tried to find another explanation for these events . Furthermore , i think the bible is a book of fables and fiction , i dont think it was intended to be a book taken literally .""",DISAGREE,"""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""","""People didnt understand the things we do now , so they tried to find another explanation for these events .""",,
20263,5334,"""Yeah , there are those who scream that self-defence is not a valid reason for gun ownership . There were no valid reasons until the libs thought them up , but I 'll set that aside for now . The question here is wether or not you think hunting is a valid reason for gun ownership . I do n't forsee any stats posted , as this thread has nothing to do with crime . So this is a chance for you to work on debating skills .""","""I have no problem with hunting weapons . And speaking of working on debate skills , maybe you could refrain from opening lines like the one you used here . No one 's screaming anything . You simply want to introduce emotion where none is required . If any side routinely loses its cool , its yours .""",DISAGREE,"""Yeah , there are those who scream that self-defence is not a valid reason for gun ownership . There were no valid reasons until the libs thought them up , but I 'll set that aside for now . The question here is wether or not you think hunting is a valid reason for gun ownership . I do n't forsee any stats posted , as this thread has nothing to do with crime . So this is a chance for you to work on debating skills .""","""I have no problem with hunting weapons . And speaking of working on debate skills , maybe you could refrain from opening lines like the one you used""",,
20280,5336,"""Basically the entire evolution of the horse , not to mention new species of fruit flies .""","""What 's been observed besides an insect ? How do they know for sure there were n't different species of horses .""",DISAGREE,"""Basically the entire evolution of the horse , not to mention new species of fruit flies .""","""How do they know for sure there were n't different species of horses .""",,
20292,5337,"""OccamsRazor : To look at it from another perspective could life as we know it ever come to be without reproduction ? no . Perhaps now we have reached a state where we may soon be able to cheat death and become individually immortal we are still products of reproduvtive ancestors- remove those an we would never have been .""","""While your previous problem fell because it dealt with the future , this one falls because it deals with the past . I am interested in the NOW - the moment when the determination is being made . That PREVIOUS organisms needed to reproduce in order for things to end up where we are today does not tell us that it is REQUIREMENT for something existing NOW ( at the time the determination is being made ) to reproduce in order to be considered living .""",DISAGREE,"""To look at it from another perspective could life as we know it ever come to be without reproduction ? no . Perhaps now we have reached a state where we may soon be able to cheat death""","""While your previous problem fell because it dealt with the future , this one falls because it deals with the past . I am interested in the NOW -""",,
20299,5338,"""Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex whether they be adults are children ............. The vast majority of the priests who were charged admitted to being gay ............""","""Please cite the source . Other wise it ; s unfounded .""",DISAGREE,"""Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex whether they be adults are children""","""Please cite the source . Other wise it ; s unfounded .""",,
20317,5340,"""But then , the justification for abortion rests on the right to control one 's own body , not population control .""","""I 've seen that argued throughout these posts , but I do n't think I 've seen the argument from start to finish . As such , I have not been absolutely convinced of this . Do you mind helping me out a little by drawing this argument out in a little more detail ?""",DISAGREE,"""the justification for abortion rests on the right to control""","""Do you mind helping me out a little by drawing this argument out in a little more detail ?""",,
20349,5345,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 Toy guncontrol the ultimate insult to personal responsibility as given in the example with the orginal post .""","""I think you got it backwards Kelvin . You 're the one that said you would n't let your children play with toy guns because you 're afraid that your children would n't be able to tell the difference between a real gun and a toy gun . Blindone never advocated toy gun-control . On the contrary , Blindone was pointing out that toy guns do n't harm children . And if your children ca n't tell the difference between fantasy and reality how do you expect them to handle a gun responsibly ? They might try to shoot the boogey man or their own shadow .""",DISAGREE,"""the ultimate insult to personal responsibility as given in the example with the orginal post .""","""I think you got it backwards Kelvin""",,
20348,5345,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 Toy guncontrol the ultimate insult to personal responsibility as given in the example with the orginal post .""","""I think you got it backwards Kelvin . You 're the one that said you would n't let your children play with toy guns because you 're afraid that your children would n't be able to tell the difference between a real gun and a toy gun . Blindone never advocated toy gun-control . On the contrary , Blindone was pointing out that toy guns do n't harm children . And if your children ca n't tell the difference between fantasy and reality how do you expect them to handle a gun responsibly ? They might try to shoot the boogey man or their own shadow .""",DISAGREE,"""Toy guncontrol the ultimate insult to personal responsibility as given in the example with the orginal post .""","""I think you got it backwards Kelvin . You 're the one that said you would n't let your children play with toy guns because you 're afraid that your children would n't be able to tell the difference between a real gun and a toy gun .""",,
20353,5346,"""Interesting analysis ... Geoffrey R. Stone : The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage : Let Me Get This Straight""","""The fact is that much of what this author states to be is absolutely false and perfectly represents the distortions of the liberal left . And that is precisely why its type of rationalization never entered the thinking of the voters who voted against gay marriage in California .""",DISAGREE,"""Interesting analysis ... Geoffrey R. Stone : The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage : Let Me Get This Straight""","""The fact is that much of what this author states to be is absolutely false and perfectly represents the distortions of the liberal left .""",,
20355,5346,"""Interesting analysis ... Geoffrey R. Stone : The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage : Let Me Get This Straight""","""The fact is that much of what this author states to be is absolutely false and perfectly represents the distortions of the liberal left . And that is precisely why its type of rationalization never entered the thinking of the voters who voted against gay marriage in California .""",DISAGREE,"""The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage : Let Me Get This Straight""","""The fact is that much of what this author states to be is absolutely false and perfectly represents the distortions of the liberal left .""",,
20370,5356,"""I do n't believe it is DrNo , because by its very definition evolution claims that Man evolved from the lower animals . It relegates us to nothing more than a biological organism with no more value than an viral bacteria . Another problem you run into regarding Genesis is the spiritual relationship Man has with God and Adams fall from grace . Evolution erases that relationship which erases the need for the need for being reunited with God through the shed blood of Christ on the Cross . Also , you must redefine what evolution teaches altogether in order to credit God with original creation and then assume evolution is His plan for humanity . That 's why the evolutionists are rejecting your premise out of hand . Your version of it is a sacrilege because it goes from being Natural to Supernatural if God is credited with original Creation . One must not compromise what the bible says in order to find a happy medium with the worlds philosophies . That is folly and will only lead to confusion . What you should ask yourself is why are beasts which can only be described as dinosaurs be found mentioned in the bible ? How did Ancient , so called stone aged men describe living creatures at the time , in their world which evolutionists will tell you were extinct for at least 60 million years by then , only 6,000 to 10,000 years ago ? Here 's what I mean . Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24 It  “ eats grass like an ox. ” It  “ moves his tail like a cedar. ” ( In Hebrew , this literally reads ,  “ he lets hang his tail like a cedar. ” ) Its  “ bones are like beams of bronze , His ribs like bars of iron. ”  “ He is the first of the ways of God. ”  “ He lies under the lotus trees , In a covert of reeds and marsh. ” Job 40:15-24 ( New International Version ) 15 `` Look at the behemoth , [ a ] which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox . 16 What strength he has in his loins , what power in the muscles of his belly ! 17 His tail [ b ] sways like a cedar ; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit . 18 His bones are tubes of bronze , his limbs like rods of iron . 19 He ranks first among the works of God , yet his Maker can approach him with his sword . 20 The hills bring him their produce , and all the wild animals play nearby . 21 Under the lotus plants he lies , hidden among the reeds in the marsh . 22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow ; the poplars by the stream surround him . 23 When the river rages , he is not alarmed ; he is secure , though the Jordan should surge against his mouth . 24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes , [ c ] or trap him and pierce his nose ? Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41 , Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1 . This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point .  “ No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. ”  “ Who can open the doors of his face , with his terrible teeth all around ?  ”  “ His rows of scales are his pride , shut up tightly as with a seal ; one is so near another that no air can come between them ; they are joined one to another , they stick together and can not be parted. ”  “ His sneezings flash forth light , and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning . Out of his mouth go burning lights ; sparks of fire shoot out . Smoke goes out of his nostrils , as from a boiling pot and burning rushes . His breath kindles coals , and a flame goes out of his mouth. ”  “ Though the sword reaches him , it can not avail ; nor does spear , dart , or javelin . He regards iron as straw , and bronze as rotten wood . The arrow can not make him flee ; slingstones become like stubble to him . Darts are regarded as straw ; he laughs at the threat of javelins. ”  “ On earth there is nothing like him , which is made without fear. ” Leviathan  “ played ” in the  “ great and wide sea ” ( a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself ) . Leviathan is a  “ reptile [ a ] that is in the sea. ” ( Isaiah 27:1 ) [ a ] Note : The word translated  “ reptile ” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn . This shows that  “ Leviathan ” was also a  “ tanniyn ” ( dragon ) . Job 41:18-21 18 By his exhaling a light does shine , and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning . 19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps , and sparks of fire leap out . 20 Out of his nostrils goes smoke , as out of a seething pot or caldron . 21 His breath kindles coals , and a flame goes out of his mouth . Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent , even leviathan that crooked serpent ; and he shall slay the dragon that [ is ] in the sea . How do we rationally explain these creatures existence so recently in our human history if they were extinct for millions of years ? And if they were the imaginings of bronze age sheep herders as your atheists/evolutionists would have you believe , then how did these ignorant people describe creatures we can now recognize from fossil evidence ? And while your at it , ask yourself if it 's reasonable that the bones of dead creatures have survived from 60 million years to some estimated to be more than 200 million years without becoming dust ? Does that make rational sense to you ? Just look at the egyptian embalming methods for preserving the Pharaohs . They are still a marvel to modern scientists yet they are nothing more than frail shells no more solid than the texture of a bees nest after a short 3000 to 4000 years in a dry and sealed sarcophagus . Yet bones/fossils buried in the Earth with the upheavals , alkalis and acids in the earth in addition to the weather have survived over 60 million years ? You must ask yourself if sciences explanations pass the smell test in the realm of common sense . And that decision is yours alone .""","""This is why religion may not survive the future . People like Arch are setting it as opposed to science and in that position it will be doomed to fail . The only hope is if the nuts stop making it in to an adversarial situation . Arch is doing nothing but distorting the very thing he holds so dear , but that is already clear to anyone who knows his work here .""",AGREE,"""I do n't believe it""","""This is why religion may not survive the future .""",,
20384,5360,"""According to atheists , fossils in the ground show that evolution , not intelligent design , produced all life on earth . That ’ s ridiculous , the Bible clearly says God created man in his own image , though some deluded scientists also say you can see evolution happening in the mutations of drug resisting bacteria . Give me a break – God [ inaudible mumbling ] genes so that Christians can go to heaven , and that means we [ George Bush/monkey visual ] came from monkeys ?""","""The George Bush visual , the reference to heaven/monkeys was apparently used to emotionally cover the inadequacy of the  “ fossils in the ground ” , and  “ mutations of drug resisting bacteria ” as complete explanations .""",AGREE,"""That ’ s ridiculous""","""was apparently used to emotionally cover the inadequacy""",,
20407,5366,"""Ok , we all know that human beings were created in the image of God .""","""No , actually , we do n't . I suppose it 's pointless to ask someone who would speak for God to not tell me what I know .""",DISAGREE,"""we all know that human beings were created in the image of God .""","""I suppose it 's pointless to ask someone who would speak for God to not tell me what I know .""",,
20408,5366,"""Ok , we all know that human beings were created in the image of God .""","""No , actually , we do n't . I suppose it 's pointless to ask someone who would speak for God to not tell me what I know .""",DISAGREE,"""we all know that human beings were created in the image of God""","""No , actually , we do n't . I suppose it 's pointless to ask someone who would speak for God to not tell me what I know .""",,
20414,5367,"""In a perfect world , that is true . Unfortunately , there is plenty of distraction and interruption from atheism . The proof is , that within the confines of a science class , just about any discussion of evolution , or websites like talk origins , or 4forums , the bloody hard work fades , and is replaced with put downs of religion . I ’ ve shown , in another thread , how follow ups ( second posts ) to threads that open about evolution often aren ’ t about any hard , thoughtful evolutionary work , they ’ re effortless put downs of religion .""","""And do you include me in that analysis ? Perhaps you could link me to these threads so that we can see exactly how they 'open ' I 'm not saying I have n't seen put-downs of religion on this forum , but in my experience there 's either personal history between the posters ( the response is effectively continuing an on-going spat that transcends the thread ) , or the OP itself was laden with flame-bait .""",DISAGREE,"""The proof is , that within the confines of a science class , just about any discussion of evolution""","""in my experience there 's either personal history between the posters""",,
20421,5368,"""The fact that some scientists totally dismiss god is proof of there ignorance of scientific method . There is growing evidence to support the existence of a supreme being , and a lot of scientists are ignorant of this fact , yet they accept theories from the quantum level wich are not proven beyond the proof of the existence of god . Mayabe your mind isnt as closed as others I have spoke with on this subject . I do believe in scientific method , but I also have faith that god is out there .""","""I bet you can not show one piece of objective evidence for any supreme being what so ever without resorting to lies , distoritions or plain ignorance . Also , many of those scientists doing the work you are ignoring are probably not atheists at all . You seem to be assuming that . Since you are making the claim these scientists are 'atheists ' , I want you to demonstrate that they are .""",DISAGREE,"""There is growing evidence to support the existence of a supreme being , and a lot of scientists are ignorant of this fact""","""You seem to be assuming that . Since you are making the claim these scientists""",,
20419,5368,"""The fact that some scientists totally dismiss god is proof of there ignorance of scientific method . There is growing evidence to support the existence of a supreme being , and a lot of scientists are ignorant of this fact , yet they accept theories from the quantum level wich are not proven beyond the proof of the existence of god . Mayabe your mind isnt as closed as others I have spoke with on this subject . I do believe in scientific method , but I also have faith that god is out there .""","""I bet you can not show one piece of objective evidence for any supreme being what so ever without resorting to lies , distoritions or plain ignorance . Also , many of those scientists doing the work you are ignoring are probably not atheists at all . You seem to be assuming that . Since you are making the claim these scientists are 'atheists ' , I want you to demonstrate that they are .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact that some scientists totally dismiss god is proof of there ignorance of scientific method .""","""I bet you can not show one piece of objective evidence for any supreme being what so ever without resorting to lies , distoritions or plain ignorance .""",,
20440,5374,"""sinjin what does the word sophistry mean ? Its not in my websters dictonary . Certianly mine is at least 40 years old , so is that a new word ? In answer to your question sin jin . God just as he answered me simply above , does not always explain in detail his ways to mankind . But my study and prayer tells me that babies born who live only a short while , may have been saved from worse fates that awaited them had they lived longer . They may indeed be the lucky ones who were so loved by God he craved to have them walk the earth only a short while to be counted among men , he knew thier souls were not in need of years of learning many of us must do on earth to evolve into who we become . They were simple , beautiful souls who did not reguire the rigors of the world to perfect them . hope that helps .""","""My god , you 're almost as bad as EZ .""",DISAGREE,"""sinjin what does the word sophistry mean ? Its not in my websters dictonary . Certianly mine is at least 40 years old""","""My god , you 're almost as bad as EZ .""",,
20444,5375,"""I do n't agree with this at all - that is like saying that we should have invented 'black and white ' unions rather than allowing interracial marriage , and maybe put the kids of such unions is segregrated but equal schools , just to make sure that they do n't have to mix with kids who matter . Separate is not equal , separate means one group does n't matter as much as the other group - only EQUAL is EQUAL .""","""Well , ok . I can see your point as well . However , I 'm looking at the reality of the religious right and their influence . What is achieveable in the short term and long term ? I think people need to be educated . Equal IS equal . You are absolutely right . And eventually , I pray there IS equality for gays . But given the current trend in the US , I doubt very much that it is going to happen . The Religious hate groups are well organized and well funded against us . We have to be smart and make a plan to get to the equal status we are entitled to . New Jersey is just another step towards that equality we want . But it 's going to take more states .... one at a time . But IF gays can achieve more and more equal rights along the way , then great . I believe eventually gay marriage will happen in the US , but it 's not going to be very soon .... maybe not in my lifetime . It will happen though .""",AGREE,"""I do n't agree with this at all - that is like saying that we should have invented 'black and white ' unions rather than allowing interracial marriage ,""","""Well , ok .""",,
20447,5376,"""Maybe only one person could build a computer , maybe one person could make a car , maybe one person could run the mile in under 4 minutes . That does n't mean that God can do ALL of these things . It means that whoever we define to be the greatest being , we can call him god and thus he exists . Of course this would n't be sufficient to Christians as this says that God is probably mortal and has the limits of being a physical being .""","""exactly .""",AGREE,"""That does n't mean that God can do ALL of these things .""","""exactly""",,
20450,5377,"""Because it 's all quite clear . Decades of effort from the religious right , conservative republicans , and their like have made gay rights a poisoned topic . It 's a tragedy , but saying the right thing on this issue will cost you more votes than it will gain you , everyone knows it , and no one is going to do it . It 's politics 101 . The democrats , as a whole , want to do the right thing , but they know that if they say so too loudly they wo n't be in a position to do anything . They 're forced to moderate their public stances so that they can get into positions where they can actually take action . This is of course a generalization , but if you 're talking about a political party as a whole that 's unavoidable .""","""So , you 're basically saying that Biden was lying through his teeth when he said he does n't support gay marriage ? It was all just a lie to keep from losing votes ? Interesting .""",DISAGREE,"""Because it 's all quite clear . Decades of effort from the religious right , conservative republicans , their like have made gay rights a poisoned topic""","""you 're basically saying that Biden was lying through his teeth when he said he does n't support gay marriage ?""",,
20448,5377,"""Because it 's all quite clear . Decades of effort from the religious right , conservative republicans , and their like have made gay rights a poisoned topic . It 's a tragedy , but saying the right thing on this issue will cost you more votes than it will gain you , everyone knows it , and no one is going to do it . It 's politics 101 . The democrats , as a whole , want to do the right thing , but they know that if they say so too loudly they wo n't be in a position to do anything . They 're forced to moderate their public stances so that they can get into positions where they can actually take action . This is of course a generalization , but if you 're talking about a political party as a whole that 's unavoidable .""","""So , you 're basically saying that Biden was lying through his teeth when he said he does n't support gay marriage ? It was all just a lie to keep from losing votes ? Interesting .""",DISAGREE,"""saying the right thing on this issue will cost you more votes than it will gain you ,""","""It was all just a lie to keep from losing votes ? Interesting .""",,
20485,5384,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Let Creation speak for itself . Ok ... I will . I look around and I see DESIGN all over the place . I do n't walk into a building and say , `` Wow , look at what came out of the explosion at the brick factory ! `` That would be utterly ridiculous .""","""Yes , do a quick search on `` self organizing systems ' to find out why .""",DISAGREE,"""look around and I see DESIGN all over the place""","""do a quick search on `` self organizing systems '""",,
20505,5387,"""I still would argue against there even being this right though . Even if it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""Well , when we talk about rights as allowable behaviour , then yes we do have this right . And it does n't end when it affects someone else . GALTON :""",DISAGREE,"""I still would argue against there even being this right though . Even if it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""when we talk about rights as allowable behaviour , then yes we do have this right . And it does n't end when it affects someone else .""",,
20502,5387,"""I still would argue against there even being this right though . Even if it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""Well , when we talk about rights as allowable behaviour , then yes we do have this right . And it does n't end when it affects someone else . GALTON :""",DISAGREE,"""it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""it does n't end when it affects someone else .""",,
20504,5387,"""I still would argue against there even being this right though . Even if it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""Well , when we talk about rights as allowable behaviour , then yes we do have this right . And it does n't end when it affects someone else . GALTON :""",DISAGREE,"""I still would argue against there even being this right though . Even if it did exist the right would end when it effects someone else .""","""Well , when we talk about rights as allowable behaviour , then yes we do have this right . And it does n't end when it affects someone else .""",,
20512,5388,"""How has God become microscopic ?""","""God has historically been thought to have been physically working behind the scenes to keep the physical world and universe operating . If a lightning bolt struck the earth , for instance , it required God to physically sling it . Rigorous scientific study has reduced him to much smaller daily operational labors , IMO . Who and where are these rigorous creationist organizations ?""",DISAGREE,"""How has God become microscopic ?""","""Rigorous scientific study has reduced him to much smaller daily operational labors""",,
20513,5389,"""Why does this evil women hate gay people and gay families so much ? Why does want to make all gay americans second class citizens ? Why does she want to hurt the children of gay families ? She is one evil women who does not support religious freedom , unless it is her own and those who believe as she does .""","""~The Assemblies of God believes strongly that God has declared great displeasure and opposition toward homosexual conduct , `` according to a church position statement on the topic.~ That 's her church , and obviously the reason she 's attempting to fold religion into government . Is that the same god who whispers in Bush 's ear ?""",AGREE,"""Why does this evil women hate gay people and gay families so much ? Why does want to make all gay americans second class citizens ? Why does she want to hurt the children of gay families ? She is one evil women who does not support religious freedom , unless it is her own and those who believe as she does .""","""~The Assemblies of God believes strongly that God has declared great displeasure and opposition toward homosexual conduct , `` according to a church position statement on the topic.~ That 's her church she 's attempting to fold religion into government . Is that the same god who whispers in Bush 's ear ?""",,
20520,5390,"""He was n't discussing abortion nor was He promoting it .""","""And you fail to answer the question .""",DISAGREE,"""He was n't discussing abortion nor was He promoting it .""","""And you fail to answer the question .""",,
20533,5392,"""Quite frankly Jim , can you present ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to show it is not genetic ?""","""I think it is very difficult , if not impossible to prove a negative .""",DISAGREE,"""can you present ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to show it is not genetic ?""","""I think it is very difficult , if not impossible""",,
20539,5393,"""This is what it has come down to . The scientific world is in sad , sad shape . It 's pathetic , really ..... yet all you anti-intellectuals will soak it up like a sponge .""","""Do you want to explain what you think the problem is ? You 're going to see a much larger change if you start fiddling with the controls than if you were replacing bases within the protein coding sequence - a lot of those would n't change anything in the protein , and a lot of the changes to the protein would n't have a significant effect either .""",DISAGREE,"""yet all you anti-intellectuals will soak it up like a sponge .""","""You 're going to see a much larger change if you start fiddling with the controls""",,
20550,5396,"""Thanks , though I got my information off Newsbank ( a very reliable source ) , The direct bill was much better""","""Yes they are . Original source documents are much better for debating the bill then secondary sources , but it requires more effort and alot more energy . Personally , I have n't a clue as to what the bill is , but the more original documents the better .""",AGREE,"""I got my information off Newsbank ( a very reliable source ) , The direct bill was much better""","""Personally , I have n't a clue as to what the bill is , but the more original documents the better .""",,
20555,5397,"""IM2L844 : The Biotic Message Theory suggest the teleological goal for biotic reality is to communicate to humans that there is one Designer and author of life , and that life could not have evolved .""","""Oh , is THAT where you are getting your information ? The Biotic Message ? I read the book tens years ago and eventually sold it because it was n't worth keeping . You do know that it is a book on biology written not by a biologist , but by an engineer . Right ? Walter Jame ReMine is a mere engineer of some sort , and has no degree in biology . And biologists strongly argue against his claims . PS : I even had a few exchanges with ReMine when I was posting at ARN . I argued against him , even though I was an IDist at the time , because he was not being truthful .""",DISAGREE,"""The Biotic Message Theory suggest the teleological goal for biotic reality is to communicate to humans""","""Oh , is THAT where you are getting your information ? The Biotic Message ?""",,
20563,5399,"""IANGB , I consider my arguments to be `` anti-elective abortion `` not `` pro-life. `` And I would appreciate it if you would try to understand the differences between the two . '' Pro-lifers `` approach the abortion debate from an `` all life is sacred `` generally religious based point of view . I do not . I neither believe that `` all life is sacred `` nor that `` god `` or religion should be used in the debate at all .""","""Fair enough ; I was just simplifying and using 'pro-life ' as a dichotomy with 'pro-choice ' . Clearly , it 's not that simple . With regards to religion in the debate - that 's fine by me for this thread * .""",AGREE,"""I consider my arguments to be `` anti-elective abortion `` not `` pro-life. `` And I would appreciate it if you would try to understand the differences between the two . ''""","""Fair enough ; I was just simplifying and using 'pro-life ' as a dichotomy with 'pro-choice ' . Clearly , it 's not that simple . With regards to religion in the debate - that 's fine by me for this thread * .""",,
20565,5399,"""IANGB , I consider my arguments to be `` anti-elective abortion `` not `` pro-life. `` And I would appreciate it if you would try to understand the differences between the two . '' Pro-lifers `` approach the abortion debate from an `` all life is sacred `` generally religious based point of view . I do not . I neither believe that `` all life is sacred `` nor that `` god `` or religion should be used in the debate at all .""","""Fair enough ; I was just simplifying and using 'pro-life ' as a dichotomy with 'pro-choice ' . Clearly , it 's not that simple . With regards to religion in the debate - that 's fine by me for this thread * .""",AGREE,"""And I would appreciate it if you would try to understand the differences between the two .""","""I was just simplifying and using 'pro-life ' as a dichotomy with 'pro-choice ' . Clearly , it 's not that simple .""",,
20576,5403,"""So if Utah made a law or a governor stated that christians did n't need protection because of their beliefs even if there were incidents of anti chrisitan beating and harassment let alone murder for their beliefs you would just say let states have their own laws ?""","""murder would violate the common law . People should be free to do as they please , but an employer should also be free to employ who they see fit . we are not talking about legalized beatings . And are you ... now saying being gay is a belief system ? or are they born that way ? which is it ? personally , i would never agree to discriminate against people for being gay .. however ... if they are flaboyantly gay ... then i do favor discrimination . there is no need to flaunt it .. as it disturbs people . but if they act normal .. speak normal .. and seem normal , then there would be no justification for firing them in my book . -Mosheh Thezion""",DISAGREE,"""christians did n't need protection because of their beliefs even if there were incidents of anti chrisitan beating""","""i would never agree to discriminate against people for being gay""",,
20586,5406,"""Abram , I would suggest you study cognitive processes and the evolution of both the human body and the human mind . We take reality and describe it in our minds and thus form it into abstract concepts which we can operate with . Or , for more fun , just read a few articles on camouflage . You 'll see that you do n't become invisible by looking exactly like your surroundings , but by simply not looking like anything at all to the observer 's eye .""","""Sounds like lots of arbitrary statements . Your assuming things to be true , and attacking the person not the argument .""",DISAGREE,"""suggest you study cognitive processes evolution of both the human body and the human mind . reality and describe it in our minds and thus form it into abstract concepts which we can operate with""","""Your assuming things to be true , and attacking the person not the argument""",,
20598,5408,"""It 's on the AP wire and has been broadcast by CBS . '' Appomattox County court records show a concealed weapons permit was issued to a Christopher Bryan Speight three times between 1999 and last year . The issue dates match the five-year renewal period for concealed handgun permits under Virginia law. ``""","""So what ?""",DISAGREE,"""Appomattox County court records show a concealed weapons permit was issued to a Christopher Bryan Speight three times between 1999 and last year . The issue dates match the five-year renewal period for concealed handgun permits under Virginia law. ``""","""So what ?""",,
20600,5408,"""It 's on the AP wire and has been broadcast by CBS . '' Appomattox County court records show a concealed weapons permit was issued to a Christopher Bryan Speight three times between 1999 and last year . The issue dates match the five-year renewal period for concealed handgun permits under Virginia law. ``""","""So what ?""",DISAGREE,"""It 's on the AP wire and has been broadcast by CBS . '' Appomattox County court records show a concealed weapons permit was issued""","""So what ?""",,
20596,5408,"""It 's on the AP wire and has been broadcast by CBS . '' Appomattox County court records show a concealed weapons permit was issued to a Christopher Bryan Speight three times between 1999 and last year . The issue dates match the five-year renewal period for concealed handgun permits under Virginia law. ``""","""So what ?""",DISAGREE,"""' Speight three times between 1999 and last year concealed handgun permits under Virginia ``""","""So what ?""",,
20607,5410,"""I 'm 21 . I want to move to Switzerland now ..... I want a military grade assault rifle . I miss my M-16 Of course it was special cause I 'm left handed""","""Yer lucky you ai n't as old as me . They would have loved you with the M-1 !""",AGREE,"""I 'm 21 . I want to move to Switzerland now ..... I want a military grade assault rifle .""","""Yer lucky you ai n't as old as me . They would have loved you with the M-1 !""",,
20615,5411,"""A firearm in mearley an inanimate piece of steel that has no mind of its own and cant function without the intervention of human control over it .""","""Wrong . It is a precision machine designed to kill effectively . It can be operated by other than human means .""",DISAGREE,"""A firearm in mearley piece of steel""","""Wrong It can be operated by other than human means .""",,
20621,5413,"""Of course evolutionists will come back and claim `` erosion `` with no evidence of such , not to mention how rock can be removed from bone after millions of years of being cemented to it .""","""So you were unable to see evidence of erosion in the pictures that I showed you ? By the way , the fossils are not bone - they are rock . They are a different kind of rock that the sedimentary rock in which they are found . Perhaps if you actually educated yourself you would know that the fossils are usually much harder than the surounding sediment . Of course , anyone who made an effort to learn before speaking would know that .""",DISAGREE,"""course evolutionists will come back and claim `` erosion""","""the way , the fossils are not bone - they are rock .""",,
20648,5420,"""You must admit Peeling that the holy grail of evolution has always been finding the missing link that proves that that magical transitional link between Ape and modern Man exists . This has always been considered the most important discovery in evo""","""I think you 're confusing 'important ' with 'sensational ' .""",DISAGREE,"""This has always been considered the most important""","""you 're confusing 'important '""",,
20666,5423,"""Hey ! Let 's murder hanicapped people ! Their health will deteriorate and probably will die in pain later on , so let 's just rip of their limbs without them knowing ! Eh ? Sounds good ?""","""sure , whatever the mother chooses .""",AGREE,"""Sounds good ?""","""whatever the mother chooses .""",,
20684,5427,"""God IS GOOD""","""Good is a subjective term .""",DISAGREE,"""GOOD""","""subjective term .""",,
20683,5427,"""God IS GOOD""","""Good is a subjective term .""",DISAGREE,"""God IS GOOD""","""Good is a subjective term .""",,
20685,5428,"""They decide when you get to come in and go out , and the police have decided to abandon you rather than come to your aid .""","""Mr. Brown was able to attend ball games . Not exactly held captive was he ?""",DISAGREE,"""the police have decided to abandon you rather than come to your aid .""","""Mr. Brown was able to attend ball games . Not exactly held captive was he ?""",,
20688,5429,"""`` Technically it is not a crime , because it is legal . If it were illegal then it would be a crime. `` Carman This isnt under crime debates cuz its technically a crime its just that it should be a crime its killing and you know it .""","""Yes , I know it 's a killing ... I never said that it was n't , I only said that LEGALLY it is not considered to be a crime ( at this point ) .""",AGREE,"""Carman This isnt under crime debates cuz its technically a crime its just that it should be a crime its killing and you know it .""","""I only said that LEGALLY it is not considered to be a crime""",,
20698,5432,"""I honestly can not think of a case were a non-materialistic approach explains something you can measure very well . Is there something physical explained as well by non-materialistic methods as well as Electricity is explained by materialistic methods ?""","""besides pain , there is a plethora of experiences that take place in a person 's mind that can not be yet detected by science . imagination , taste , dreams , art appreciation , etc . even though these things are real , they can not be quantitatively described in physical terms , so they can not be treated by science""",DISAGREE,"""I honestly can not think of a case were a non-materialistic approach explains something you can measure very well""","""besides pain , there is a plethora of experiences that take place in a person 's mind that can not be yet detected by science""",,
20706,5441,"""You know what they call people like you ? Victims .""","""Actually , that ’ s what they call most of the people that come in to contact with me .""",DISAGREE,"""You know what they call people like you ? Victims .""","""Actually , that ’ s what they call most of the people that come in to contact with me .""",,
20716,5443,"""Let 's say the parents wanted to send their child to a public school but they did n't want the evolution class . The kid could just not attend the evolution classes .""","""See above , again""",DISAGREE,"""Let 's say the parents wanted to send their child to a public school but they did n't want the evolution class . The kid could just not attend the evolution classes .""","""See above , again""",,
20722,5444,"""Originally posted by DarKnight But what is logic other then a dogma with a higher refresher rate ?""","""Well , I would call it a formalized set of rules and procedures for evaluating the validity of propositions . How does that relate to a dogma with a higher refresh rate ? ? ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""dogma with a higher refresher rate ?""","""How does that relate to a dogma""",,
20721,5444,"""Originally posted by DarKnight But what is logic other then a dogma with a higher refresher rate ?""","""Well , I would call it a formalized set of rules and procedures for evaluating the validity of propositions . How does that relate to a dogma with a higher refresh rate ? ? ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""But what is logic other then a dogma with a higher refresher rate ?""","""How does that relate to a dogma with a higher refresh rate ? ? ? ? ?""",,
20724,5445,"""everything . it states that you can not discriminate against people even if they have a disorder . and if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""By that logic being black or of some other minority , is a disorder . That 's not correct . AA is suppose to be a leg up for the so-called less fortunate .""",DISAGREE,"""if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""By that logic being black or of some other minority , is a disorder AA is suppose to be a leg up for the so-called less fortunate .""",,
20727,5445,"""everything . it states that you can not discriminate against people even if they have a disorder . and if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""By that logic being black or of some other minority , is a disorder . That 's not correct . AA is suppose to be a leg up for the so-called less fortunate .""",DISAGREE,"""can not discriminate against people if you prohibit people from getting married , thats discrimination""","""That 's not correct .""",,
20726,5445,"""everything . it states that you can not discriminate against people even if they have a disorder . and if you prohibit people from getting married because they have a disorder , thats discrimination""","""By that logic being black or of some other minority , is a disorder . That 's not correct . AA is suppose to be a leg up for the so-called less fortunate .""",DISAGREE,"""that a""","""minority , is a disorder .""",,
20751,5452,"""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""","""Well , you did n't have my experiences , now did you ? Each woman who has an abortion coul have innumerous circumstances and experiences .""",DISAGREE,"""Not the way I see it from my experiences .""","""you did n't have my experiences""",,
20749,5452,"""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""","""Well , you did n't have my experiences , now did you ? Each woman who has an abortion coul have innumerous circumstances and experiences .""",DISAGREE,"""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""","""Well , you did n't have my experiences , now did you ? Each woman who has an abortion coul have innumerous circumstances and experiences .""",,
20754,5453,"""Caged reasoning on both sides but yet each faction has a similiar goal ; to decline the rate of abortion . Pro-lifers feel that legal restriction to outright criminalization will complete this goal . Pro-choicers feel that the means to control fertility through contraception will do . I believe moderate pro-lifers and pro-choicers can come to a comfortable compromise .""","""Thats true . However , do we not have a state of reasonable compromise at the moment ?""",AGREE,"""Pro-lifers feel that legal restriction to outright criminalization will complete this goal . Pro-choicers feel that the means to control fertility through contraception will do .""","""Thats true . However , do we not have a state of reasonable compromise at the moment ?""",,
20760,5461,"""In the vanishingly small likelihood of the event ever coming down down to it , your handgun is not going to face them down or give them a moment 's pause on any measure . They would squash you like a bug , and barely notice .""","""That 's why the Second Amendment protects the private ownership of arms like the .50 BMG and other such powerful weapons .""",DISAGREE,"""your handgun is not going to face them down""","""That 's why the Second Amendment protects the private ownership of arms like the .50 BMG and other such powerful weapons .""",,
20762,5461,"""In the vanishingly small likelihood of the event ever coming down down to it , your handgun is not going to face them down or give them a moment 's pause on any measure . They would squash you like a bug , and barely notice .""","""That 's why the Second Amendment protects the private ownership of arms like the .50 BMG and other such powerful weapons .""",DISAGREE,"""your handgun is not going to face them down or give them a moment 's pause on any measure .""","""That 's why the Second Amendment protects the private ownership of arms like the .50 BMG""",,
20775,5463,"""... Course there is very little stopping faith and science going together , as long as the Faith is fairly vague , but even then I see it having a hard time without stepping on the toes of science in anyway , especially if we consider possible future science as well .""","""True .""",AGREE,"""there is very little stopping faith and science going together""","""True .""",,
20787,5464,"""It 's the heaviest snowfall around here for twenty years . What 's the weather like where you are ?""","""Which still proves nothing in regards to climate change or global warming Why do people seem to think that for global warming to be a fact that it would have to stop snowing ?""",DISAGREE,"""It 's the heaviest snowfall around here for twenty years""","""Which still proves nothing in regards to climate change or global warming""",,
20794,5465,"""It does n't do this , because proponents of natural selection rule out 'ends ' ... other than survival , and survival simply come about because organisms survive ( hence the tautology of `` Survival of the Fittest `` which Darwin himself felt was a superior phrase to `` Natural Selection `` ) .""","""As was pointed out in some of your own quotations , survival is not an 'end ' of natural selection . Natural selection is the differential reproductive success of organisms with more favorable suites of characteristics . It is a statistical tendency . Individual organisms may work to survive , but they also work to reproduce . That 's as close as it gets to `` purpose. `` And as you know , Darwin 's favored term was natural selection . He never used the phrase `` survival of the fittest `` without also making a reference to natural selection . The opposite is not the case . Since Darwin 's time `` survival of the fittest `` has been rejected by evolutionary biologists because it is such a poor representation of the extent of the theory .""",DISAGREE,"""because proponents of natural selection rule out 'ends ' ... other than survival , and survival simply come about because organisms survive""","""survival is not an 'end ' of natural selection . Natural selection is the differential reproductive success of organisms with more favorable suites of characteristics .""",,
20804,5466,"""Here on earth having billions of christian , catholic , muslim , buddhist are following their friends , their parents , their country 's people to believe in God since born or during growth but do n't know what God is or dare to ask if there 's really GOD in the universe !""","""I 'll respond when I can figure out what you 're trying to say .""",DISAGREE,"""Here on earth having billions of christian , catholic , muslim , buddhist are following their friends , their parents , their country 's people to believe in God""","""I 'll respond when I can figure out what you 're trying to say .""",,
20810,5467,"""Sorry I missed your thread on that . It sounds like you are mainly concerned with health issues that could very potentially lead to the mother 's death and or/complete debilitation ( like paralysis ) , and I 'd be much more open to that . But as you said , we have two extremes to choose from , and SCOTUS chose the one that does n't take into account the woman 's health for this particular procedure . I 'd also add that because this is a late term procedure , if health is the reason to not take the baby to term , then caesarian delivery very well might be an option , in many cases .""","""I agree that all other reasonably safe options ( such as caesarian delivery , in womb operations , etc . ) should be looked into before resorting to abortion in that third trimester . As with the example of the friend of jitobear , sometimes there is just not a reasonably safe option for a particular woman since her conditions might not allow those alternate procedures . As for the question of limits on the health exception , yes , the exceptions that are clearer to me are the ones that could ultimately lead to the mother 's death or complete debilitation . However , there is also a gray region that I am undecided on . For example : - What if the pregnancy would lead to less critical loss - such as the loss of use of her legs or arms ? What about one limb - such as the use of one arm ? - What if the pregnancy would give a medium chance of loss - such as a 20 % chance of paralysis ? The gray region is harder to quantify and the moral balance gets trickier . Perhaps that is why this issue has n't really been addressed specifically in law . Where decisions in morally gray regions are concerned , it is too easy to criticize them and politically unwise to venture into that territory .""",AGREE,"""if health is the reason to not take the baby to term , then caesarian delivery very well might be an option , in many cases .""","""I agree that all other reasonably safe options ( such as caesarian delivery , in womb operations , etc . ) should be looked into before resorting to abortion in that third trimester .""",,
20817,5467,"""Sorry I missed your thread on that . It sounds like you are mainly concerned with health issues that could very potentially lead to the mother 's death and or/complete debilitation ( like paralysis ) , and I 'd be much more open to that . But as you said , we have two extremes to choose from , and SCOTUS chose the one that does n't take into account the woman 's health for this particular procedure . I 'd also add that because this is a late term procedure , if health is the reason to not take the baby to term , then caesarian delivery very well might be an option , in many cases .""","""I agree that all other reasonably safe options ( such as caesarian delivery , in womb operations , etc . ) should be looked into before resorting to abortion in that third trimester . As with the example of the friend of jitobear , sometimes there is just not a reasonably safe option for a particular woman since her conditions might not allow those alternate procedures . As for the question of limits on the health exception , yes , the exceptions that are clearer to me are the ones that could ultimately lead to the mother 's death or complete debilitation . However , there is also a gray region that I am undecided on . For example : - What if the pregnancy would lead to less critical loss - such as the loss of use of her legs or arms ? What about one limb - such as the use of one arm ? - What if the pregnancy would give a medium chance of loss - such as a 20 % chance of paralysis ? The gray region is harder to quantify and the moral balance gets trickier . Perhaps that is why this issue has n't really been addressed specifically in law . Where decisions in morally gray regions are concerned , it is too easy to criticize them and politically unwise to venture into that territory .""",AGREE,"""and SCOTUS chose the one that does n't take into account the woman 's health for this particular""","""The gray region is harder to quantify and the moral balance gets trickier . Perhaps that is why this issue""",,
20828,5471,"""Hey , let me jump in on this one . Creation science has found nothing . There are no ifs , buts or maybes , on this one . Creation science is wrong and has been proven so by the scientific community time and time again . Look at pretty much any post on this forum and you will see this . Every time a Creat brings up an argument , the secular residents of this site beat them down with logic and reason . No Creat argument has stood up to the test of science . Pure and simple .""","""point me toward the right way then ? if creationists are wrong then why is evolution right ? this is a biased answer based on your beliefs . please tell us how creationists were wrong . i would gladly like to see you try !""",DISAGREE,"""Creation science is wrong and has been proven so by the scientific community time and time again No argument has stood up to the test of science . Pure and simple .""","""if creationists are wrong then why is evolution right ?""",,
20832,5472,"""No one denies them that right already . I have n't heard of a single instance where police blocked to the door to a chapel , park , house , etc . where two gay people were getting married . And no authorities are forcing gay people not to `` live their lives together , `` as you say .""","""But if the state refuses to recognise their right to commit to each other in a legal union , then they are being denied at least one right which is available to everyone else . This can also affect legal entitlements . Leo""",DISAGREE,"""I have n't heard of a single instance where police blocked to the door to a chapel , park , house , etc . where two gay people were getting married . And no authorities are forcing gay people not to `` live their lives together , `` as you say .""","""But if the state refuses to their right to commit to each other in a legal union , then they are being denied at least one right which is available to everyone else""",,
20835,5473,"""I see you know nothing about the subject ... hardly a surprise .""","""Well I do n't . I hardly follow gun issues because well their old news in my opinion . It 's the same old tired bickering of one side screaming rights and the other side screaming restriction and meh just a bunch of ticked off angry people .""",DISAGREE,"""nothing about the subject ... hardly a surprise""","""Well I do n't . I hardly follow gun issues because well their old news in my opinion""",,
20871,5481,"""So , your saying an eyewitness would mean nothing . Yeah right .""","""Your logic is that if no one was there to witness it , it therefore did not happen . Under that logic , creation did not happen because no one was there to witness it , God does not count because we ca n't even prove it exists , much less hold it accountable for being there to witness it . The entire argument based around the witness via your argument is worthless .""",DISAGREE,"""your saying an eyewitness would mean nothing . Yeah right .""","""Your logic is that if no one was there to witness it , it therefore did not happen .""",,
20875,5482,"""From National Health Service Greater Glasgow & amp ; Clyde Women & amp ; Childrens Directorate - Social Gynaecology Patient Information Complications of Termination Psychological effects : a small number of women experience regret or adverse psychological effects . Few experience any long-term , adverse psychological effects . Early distress is common and usually a continuation of symptons present before the abortion . However , long-lasting , negative effects on both mothers and their children are reported where abortion has been denied .""","""So , it 's a proven fact that children denied the act of abortion suffer negative effects ? Hmmmmmm""",DISAGREE,"""However , long-lasting , negative effects on both mothers and their children are reported where abortion has been denied .""","""it 's a proven fact that children denied the act of abortion suffer negative effects ?""",,
20874,5482,"""From National Health Service Greater Glasgow & amp ; Clyde Women & amp ; Childrens Directorate - Social Gynaecology Patient Information Complications of Termination Psychological effects : a small number of women experience regret or adverse psychological effects . Few experience any long-term , adverse psychological effects . Early distress is common and usually a continuation of symptons present before the abortion . However , long-lasting , negative effects on both mothers and their children are reported where abortion has been denied .""","""So , it 's a proven fact that children denied the act of abortion suffer negative effects ? Hmmmmmm""",DISAGREE,"""negative effects on both mothers and their children reported where abortion has been denied .""","""children denied the act of abortion suffer negative effects ?""",,
20895,5485,"""The steps of evolution have never been observed .""","""False . Random mutation and natural selection have been observed in the lab using bacteria ; in some cases the researchers even determined exactly which mutations in the genomes produced the advantageous changes .""",DISAGREE,"""steps of evolution have never been observed .""","""False mutation and natural selection have been observed in the lab determined exactly which mutations in the genomes produced the advantageous changes .""",,
20912,5488,"""To expound on my last post : And yet this is taken to be fact unanimously in our history books . Funny how easy this book gets a pass .""","""Funny how you have n't had a literature or history class recently . Would you like me to contact the several history and literature/English teachers in my school and ask them if they credit Homer as the actual author of those epics ?""",DISAGREE,"""Funny how easy this book gets a pass .""","""Funny how you have n't had a literature or history class recently . Would you like me to contact the several history and literature/English teachers in my school""",,
20920,5490,"""Life at every level -- from humans down to bacteria -- exhibit intelligence and very often cooperation . Darwinists got it all wrong .""","""And what , exactly is `` it `` that `` Darwinists `` got wrong ?""",DISAGREE,"""Life at every level -- from humans down to bacteria Darwinists got it all wrong .""","""And what , exactly is `` it `` that `` Darwinists `` got wrong ?""",,
20958,5499,"""Fact is grant money is n't going to embryonic stem cell research because it has n't yielded results favorable to the investment .""","""That 's only true because of the bonehead in the whitehouse . Once bush leaves you will see a lot of great things becoming reality through embryonic stem cell research""",DISAGREE,"""Fact is grant money is n't going to embryonic stem cell research because it has n't yielded results favorable to the investment .""","""That 's only true because of the bonehead in the whitehouse .""",,
20961,5500,"""That would be Miami , where a playstation costs more on the street than an AK47 ...........""","""I 'm calling you out . Exactly what is the street price for an AK-47 in Miami ? Obviously you have the answer to this question , along with evidence that your answer is correct and factual , or you 're just trolling and trying to derail a serious discussion , proving that you have nothing to contribute .""",DISAGREE,"""That would be Miami , where a playstation costs more on the street than an AK47""","""Exactly what is the street price for an AK-47 in Miami ? Obviously you have the answer to this question , along with evidence that your answer is correct and factual""",,
20968,5501,"""Essay : I cite : a ) Rejected Gospels . People got to say whatever the hell they wanted about this `` Jesus `` fellow , if he existed . The events used to explain the circumstances of his birth are not merely nonsensical but contradictory to both the geography and the law/customs of the region . Jesus disappears for 30 years with nary a wonder of where the alleged son of God went .""","""The books of the NT ( GOSPELS ) were agreed on due to their content being inspired by God . Anything `` rejected `` did not contain that inspiration .""",DISAGREE,"""People got to say whatever the hell they wanted about this `` Jesus `` fellow , if he existed . The events used to explain the circumstances of his birth are not merely nonsensical but contradictory to both the geography and the law/customs of the region""","""The books of the NT ( GOSPELS ) were agreed on due to their content being inspired by God . Anything `` rejected `` did not contain that inspiration .""",,
20969,5501,"""Essay : I cite : a ) Rejected Gospels . People got to say whatever the hell they wanted about this `` Jesus `` fellow , if he existed . The events used to explain the circumstances of his birth are not merely nonsensical but contradictory to both the geography and the law/customs of the region . Jesus disappears for 30 years with nary a wonder of where the alleged son of God went .""","""The books of the NT ( GOSPELS ) were agreed on due to their content being inspired by God . Anything `` rejected `` did not contain that inspiration .""",DISAGREE,"""got to say whatever the hell they wanted about this `` Jesus `` fellow , nonsensical but contradictory to both the geography and the law/customs of the region""","""The books of the NT ( GOSPELS ) were agreed on due to their content being inspired by God . Anything `` rejected `` did not contain that inspiration""",,
20984,5511,"""But for you evos to claim victory based on your interpretation which is as biased as ours is , is the epitome of arrogance . We may have to agree to disagree peeling , but do n't you dare just assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""","""lol . One can not prove anything to someone who wishes to remain willfully ignorant . Besides , you have n't addressed the content of that post you quoted . You will NEVER , EVER , EVER submit your beliefs to those in the practicing fields . A forum of practicing PHDs in Chemistry , Biology and Geology is something you are very , very , very afraid of .""",DISAGREE,"""We may have to agree to disagree peeling , but do n't you dare just assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""","""One can not prove anything to someone who wishes to remain willfully ignorant""",,
20997,5516,"""Illinois law requires that all gun owners have a state ID card and that transactions be recorded , allowing police to potentially link a gun used in a crime to its owner .""","""And how many guns found at crime scenes have been linked back to their original owners ?""",DISAGREE,"""allowing police to potentially link a gun used in a crime to its owner .""","""And how many guns found at crime scenes have been linked back to their original owners ?""",,
21020,5522,"""Yeah arch why did god do it that way ?""","""I already did explain the obnoxious childs dishonesty accipiter . You really need to read the posts before embarrassing yourself asking ridiculous questions . The ignorance that child contributes here is enough for any 5 forums , much less this ONE . You notice that this liar never actually supported his claim that I ever ARGUED THAT GOD IS AN EPIC LIAR ! ! ! But that never stopped him from making the dishonest claim , did it ? So my question for you is this ; why would you even rely on such a liar to make any type of valid point at all when he is n't even connected to reality which he proves in every single post in which he corrupts and perverts what another member says by completely misinterpreting what he says ?""",DISAGREE,"""Yeah arch why did god do it that way ?""","""I already did explain the obnoxious childs dishonesty accipiter . You really need to read the posts before embarrassing yourself asking ridiculous questions .""",,
21023,5522,"""Yeah arch why did god do it that way ?""","""I already did explain the obnoxious childs dishonesty accipiter . You really need to read the posts before embarrassing yourself asking ridiculous questions . The ignorance that child contributes here is enough for any 5 forums , much less this ONE . You notice that this liar never actually supported his claim that I ever ARGUED THAT GOD IS AN EPIC LIAR ! ! ! But that never stopped him from making the dishonest claim , did it ? So my question for you is this ; why would you even rely on such a liar to make any type of valid point at all when he is n't even connected to reality which he proves in every single post in which he corrupts and perverts what another member says by completely misinterpreting what he says ?""",DISAGREE,"""why did god do it that way ?""","""You really need to read the posts""",,
21024,5523,"""Do n't pray for us ! Debate with us ! Are all your posts so pointless ?""","""hey D , i am not going to get attitude w/ you .. i do n't see a piont in getting mad at you""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't pray for us ! Debate with us ! Are all your posts so pointless ?""","""i am not going to get attitude w/ you .. i do n't see a piont in getting mad at you""",,
21028,5524,"""http : //apnews.myway.com/article/20061108/D8L8S27G0.html Well by golly , gay rights activists actually CAN rely on votes and the will of the people to ensure they get the rights the way they want them ! Imagine that ... No courts , no judges , no suits . Actually using the system the way it was designed to work . What will they turn to next to oppose democracy ( in favor of judicial oligarchy ) since no longer can they claim voting for ballot initiatives works against them ?""","""I know . And if only those darn blacks had done the same thing with miscegenation and segregation laws , this world would have been a better place . Who do they think they are trying to solve unconstitutional legislation and governmental practices in a court of law ! The totalitarian of it all ! Do n't they know that rights are something that should be left up to the whim of the masses , to allotted to minorities when the majority pleases ? < end sarcasm >""",DISAGREE,"""by golly , gay rights activists actually CAN rely on votes and the will of the people to ensure they get the rights the way they want them ! Imagine that""","""And if only those darn blacks had done the same thing with miscegenation and segregation laws , this world would have been a better place .""",,
21032,5524,"""http : //apnews.myway.com/article/20061108/D8L8S27G0.html Well by golly , gay rights activists actually CAN rely on votes and the will of the people to ensure they get the rights the way they want them ! Imagine that ... No courts , no judges , no suits . Actually using the system the way it was designed to work . What will they turn to next to oppose democracy ( in favor of judicial oligarchy ) since no longer can they claim voting for ballot initiatives works against them ?""","""I know . And if only those darn blacks had done the same thing with miscegenation and segregation laws , this world would have been a better place . Who do they think they are trying to solve unconstitutional legislation and governmental practices in a court of law ! The totalitarian of it all ! Do n't they know that rights are something that should be left up to the whim of the masses , to allotted to minorities when the majority pleases ? < end sarcasm >""",DISAGREE,"""No courts , no judges , no suits .""","""The totalitarian of it all !""",,
21048,5528,"""Two gun deaths per 100,000 population per year instead of fourteen ?""","""At what cost ? How many civil rights are you willing to give up in the name of a few less murders each year ? Are you perfectly willing to be stopped by the police on a block-by-block basis and forced to show identification and traveling papers , all the while the officers on location are pointing their guns right at your head , ready to blow you away at the first sign of a twitch or if you display even a hint of hesitation to comply ? How desperately do you crave a police state ? How much do you favor a nationwide curfew where violators can be arrested by the police and held without legal counsel for an indefinite period of time ? Do you favor the use of physical and mental torture to force convictions even from the innocent ?""",DISAGREE,"""Two gun deaths per 100,000 population per year instead of fourteen ?""","""At what cost ? How many civil rights are you willing to give up in the name of a few less murders each year ? Are you perfectly willing to be stopped by the police on a block-by-block basis""",,
21055,5529,"""The reason that 's the case is because there are many limitations on marriage but only homosexuals claim they are being discriminated against .""","""And if you rewind a little over 40 years , the exact same thing could be said about interracial marriage . Archie 's reply is a non-argument , and false at that . Multiple other groups state discrimination in marriage , but there are LEGITIMATE STATE INTERESTS prohibiting their marriage . Little things like child rape , lack of consent , and other issues .""",DISAGREE,"""The reason that 's the case is because there are many limitations on marriage""","""And if you rewind a little over 40 years ,""",,
21061,5530,"""One of the reasons included fears that the population would be dominated by the children of newly arriving immigrants , whose birth rates were higher than those of `` native `` Anglo-Saxon women . Abortion has been legally performed for thousands of years . It was also legal in the United States from the time the earliest settlers arrived . At the time the Constitution was adopted , abortions before `` quickening `` were openly advertised and commonly performed .""","""You mean before abortion was ever dealt with as a moral issue , so there were no laws against it at all ? But just for the heck of it , would you mind humoring me with any evidence that this paragraph is true at all ? I 'm referring to the stated mindset of the day , the social attitude you outline of the time , and of course the bolded section .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion has been legally performed for thousands of years . It was also legal in the United States from the time the earliest settlers arrived""","""You mean before abortion was ever dealt with as a moral issue , so there were no laws against it at all ?""",,
21081,5534,"""Nobody with a brain would want the government deciding when they deserve to get medical treatment , and when they 're not sick enough to qualify .""","""And no country in the developed world has such a system . Take your strawman elsewhere . In any case , if such decisions are made I 'd rather have them made by democratically accountable government than private corporations . I live in a country with a very good , though not perfect , public healthcare system , and the system proposed in the US is not government run , by any stretch of the imagination . The government will not own the hospitals , employ the medical staff , pay for most of the medicine , that will all be done by private insurers and private hospitals still . My maybe vote therefore means I think the US system needs to be nationalised , it 's much more efficient to do that .""",DISAGREE,"""Nobody with a brain would want the government deciding when they deserve to get medical treatment , and when they 're not sick enough to qualify .""","""In any case , if such decisions are made I 'd rather have them made by democratically accountable government than private corporations . I live in a country with a very good , though not perfect , public healthcare system , and the system proposed in the US is not government run , by any stretch of the imagination . The government will not own the hospitals , employ the medical staff , pay for most of the medicine , that will all be done by private insurers and private hospitals still .""",,
21092,5536,"""2 . Ok , I do believe that God is seperate from time and space , but you apparently do n't so I was taking it to your level . And if you do believe that God is seperate from time and space then why do you insist on chaining him down by saying that `` there is no possible way that God created the Earth in any more or any less than 6 days. ``""","""I believe God is separate fom time and space , also . I did n't say that he could n't have created it in any more or less than 6 days . I simply said that it could not have taken him millions and billions and trillions of years .""",DISAGREE,"""if you do believe that God is seperate from time and space then why do you insist on chaining him down by saying that `` there is no possible way that God created the Earth in any more or any less than 6 days. ``""","""I did n't say that he could n't have created it in any more or less than 6 days . I simply said that it could not have taken him millions and billions and trillions of years .""",,
21115,5542,"""Judges do this everyday . This case just made the news .""","""Not really , this case was different in that the state was the guardian . Although I am sure it has happened before . As for three reasons ... 1 ) The state of Florida does n't believe a 13 yr old can have sex ( consent ) so why couold she be able to cosent to an abortion ? 2 ) The State is the guardian and they should be able to say where she can and ca n't go as a parent would be able to do .... and the state has a law against taking kids to abortion clinics . 3 ) ABORTION IS KILLING A KID . Maybe that does n't matter for most : -/""",DISAGREE,"""Judges do this everyday . This case just made the news .""","""Not really , this case was different in that the state was the guardian .""",,
21127,5552,"""The gene is intellectually dead . Genetic deteminism is intellectually dead . Materialism is intellectually dead . ToE is intellectually dead -- atheism is intellectually dead . The new genetics highlights a paradigm of organic wholeness . We are not a collection of parts . We are a complex wholes , who are able to engage dynamic transformation upon enviornmental and social changes . We are not genetically determined , we are creators of our own destiny . We are no longer a collection of `` things , `` we are a collective process .""","""Its a direct quote from Al Capone in the Kevin Coster version of the Untouchables . None of the alleged deaths have in fact occurred except for genetic determinism which has long been dead so long that there is not even a smell left . And somehow I do n't think you will find a proof of GOD in the fact that the genome is more complex than a simplistic point of view such as you apparently held prior to reading some of the newer findings .""",DISAGREE,"""Genetic deteminism is intellectually dead . Materialism is intellectually dead .""","""I do n't think you will find a proof of GOD in the fact that the genome is more complex than a simplistic point of view such as you apparently held prior to reading some of the newer findings .""",,
21134,5554,"""But again , either way , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""","""It may take long enough that it wo n't be quite as moot as you think ...""",DISAGREE,"""it 'll be a moot point""","""it wo n't be quite as moot""",,
21137,5555,"""Evolutionism does not stem from either science , nor the Bible . It is a naturalistic belief system [ or religion ] about the past , i.e . how everything here today - which we call the evidence - came to be .""","""So what does evolution stem from then ? did Darwin find an annoymous manuscript in his study one day entitled `` The Origin of the Species `` that had appeared out of nowhere ? Lets not try to paint up some new faces for paganism""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionism does not stem from either science , nor the Bible""","""So what does evolution stem from then ?""",,
21138,5556,"""Your wrong . Airplanes and courthouses are gun free zones but these places never have massacres .""","""Actually , that is factually incorrect . There have been several courthouse killings the last was in Atlanta where several guards were killed . Also , they 've been talking about arming flight attendants and pilots Because of problems on planes ( 911 , etc .. )""",DISAGREE,"""Airplanes and courthouses are gun free zones but these places never have massacres .""","""Actually , that is factually incorrect . There have been several courthouse killings the last was in Atlanta where several guards were killed""",,
21150,5560,"""Originally posted by Broker We control the government ... of course I trust it .""","""GW Bush , just authorized the killing of US citizens overseas in the war against terrorism . There is no wording for preventing the CIA to extend that mission within the borders of the USA . In effect the CIA has license to kill anyone , without a trial , without due process , without oversight , and all in secret . Trusting the government means you trust politicians to tell the truth , always do what in in the public interest , will nerver lie , cheat , or steal . The politicians are the government .""",DISAGREE,"""posted by Broker We control the government ... of course I trust it .""","""GW Bush , just authorized the killing of US citizens overseas in the war against terrorism""",,
21152,5560,"""Originally posted by Broker We control the government ... of course I trust it .""","""GW Bush , just authorized the killing of US citizens overseas in the war against terrorism . There is no wording for preventing the CIA to extend that mission within the borders of the USA . In effect the CIA has license to kill anyone , without a trial , without due process , without oversight , and all in secret . Trusting the government means you trust politicians to tell the truth , always do what in in the public interest , will nerver lie , cheat , or steal . The politicians are the government .""",DISAGREE,"""We control the government ... of course I trust it .""","""Trusting the government means you trust politicians to tell the truth , always do what in in the public interest , will nerver lie , cheat , or steal . The politicians are the government .""",,
21167,5565,"""I believe every animal was probably initally created to be vegetarians , and at some point after the Fall , any animal populations that did not consume a regular diet high in vitamin C experienced a mutation so that it could be produced internally .""","""You can believe what you want , your beliefs are not relevant to the issue .""",DISAGREE,"""I believe""","""your beliefs are not relevant""",,
21169,5566,"""... and ? Hate to remind you but our government has always been SECULAR ! It was meant to be secular , has always been secular and dang-it-all , SHOULD ALWAYS be secular ! It 's really simple .""","""You couldnt be more wrong . Our goverment was built on the word of God . Its ALL OVER our founding documents . George Washington was quoted to say `` You can not call yourself an American and subvert the word of God. `` Your only argument can go back to the sep.of church and state . Which is new compaired to when our laws were drafted . So not always ... just unfortuanatly now . Which is a BIG mistake by the way and could be the downfall of our country . Try again ...""",DISAGREE,"""Hate to remind you but our government has always been SECULAR !""","""You couldnt be more wrong . Our goverment was built on the word of God can not call yourself an American and subvert the word of God. ``""",,
21179,5571,"""`` A Law of Nature then is the rule and Law , according to which God resolved that certain Motions should always , that is , in all Cases be performed . Every Law does immediately depend upon the Will of God. `` Gravesande , Mathematical Elements of Natural Philosophy , I , 2-3 , 1726 , quoted in CC Gillespie , Genesis and Geology , 1959 . Judges 21:15 `` 4 The people were still disconsolate over Benjamin because the LORD had made a breach among the tribes of Israel. `` 4 . 4 [ 15 ] Had made a breach : what is here attributed to God was in reality the free and deliberate act of the Israelites and happened only by the permissive will of God . The ancients attributed to the first primary cause what is more directly due to secondary causes. `` http : //www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/judges/judges21.htm `` Yes , God 's eternal decree is being worked out , but the working out of that eternal decree is done through his interaction with people , and through their decisions and actions . The role that man 's actions take in the working out of God 's will is called a `` secondary cause. `` The Westminster Confession of Faith explains it this way : `` God is the first cause , and in relationship to Him everything happens unchangeably and infallibly . However , by this same providence , He orders things to happen according to secondary causes . As a result of these secondary causes , some things must inevitably happen ; others may or may not happen , depending on the voluntary intentions of the agents involved ; and some things do not have to happen but may , depending on other conditions ( WCF 5.2 ; I 've quoted from Summertown Text 's modern version ) . `` http : //www.thirdmill.org/answers/ans ... ions/site/iiim""","""So the main disagreements between fundamentalists and theistic evolutionists are what are , and are not first ( primary ) causes . And atheists believe everything is a second cause ( or first cause ) with no intelligence behind it . It still does n't make any sense to me why theistic evolutionists are in such agreement with atheists , and so far apart from `` fundamentalists `` .""",DISAGREE,"""A Law of Nature then is the rule and Law , according to which God resolved that certain Motions should always , The Westminster Confession of Faith explains it this way : `` God is the first cause""","""the main disagreements between fundamentalists and theistic evolutionists are what are , and are not first ( primary ) causes . And atheists believe everything is a second cause""",,
21182,5573,"""Once again , noting the difference in our definitions of evolution and how you are not looking at the big picture .""","""Once again noting how you think that you should be the one to define what evolutionary biologists mean by the words they use . You want to lump all of science that you find in disagreement with you religion under one term , without making an honest effort to understand any of it .""",DISAGREE,"""noting the difference in our definitions of evolution""","""noting how you think that you should be the one to define what evolutionary biologists mean by the words they use""",,
21200,5579,"""In Eichstátt , Germany , in 1984 there was a major meeting of scientists who specialize in bird evolution , the International Archaeopteryx Conference . They disagreed on just about anything that was covered there on this creature , but there was very broad agreement on the belief that Archaeopteryx was a true bird . Only a tiny minority thought that it was actually one of the small , lightly built coelurosaurian dinosaurs [ small lightly framed dinosaurs ] .""","""1984 , huh ? I 'm sure that is all still very relevant . Actually there is a lot of discussion about the nature of Archaeopteryx . Much of it deals with whether it could fly and what it teaches us about how birds came to fly - ground up or trees down . But what they all agreed on , even back then , was that Archaeopteryx is a transitional . Taxonomic debates are n't really very meaningful , really . Creationists like to make a big deal about the fact that most taxonomists and ornithologists classify Archaeopteryx as a bird . But where else would it go ? That 's a limitation of the Linnean classification system - everything is put somewhere , even if it does n't exactly fit . The only debate about the evolution of Archaeopteryx among experts is whether it evolved from theropod dinorsaurs or from archosaurs . It 's still a transitional .""",DISAGREE,"""in 1984 there was a major meeting of scientists who specialize in bird evolution ,""","""1984 , huh ? I 'm sure that is all still very relevant""",,
21222,5582,"""I ’ m going back to what you said about our ability to make machines that can  “ read precise wavelengths ” - I took that as an implication that we can make machines that can see colors that we can ’ t .""","""Let 's clean up our terminology . '' Color `` is just our brains ' way of comprehending wavelength of light , so instead of saying `` color , `` let 's say `` wavelength. `` You took Kronus 's statement as meaning that we can make machines that can see wavelengths that we ca n't see with our eyes . This is true .""",DISAGREE,"""took that as an implication that we can make machines""",""" that we can make machines""",,
21225,5582,"""I ’ m going back to what you said about our ability to make machines that can  “ read precise wavelengths ” - I took that as an implication that we can make machines that can see colors that we can ’ t .""","""Let 's clean up our terminology . '' Color `` is just our brains ' way of comprehending wavelength of light , so instead of saying `` color , `` let 's say `` wavelength. `` You took Kronus 's statement as meaning that we can make machines that can see wavelengths that we ca n't see with our eyes . This is true .""",DISAGREE,"""I ’ m going back to what you said about our ability to make machines that can  read precise wavelengthsÂ""","""Let 's clean up our terminology . '' Color `` is just our brains ' way of comprehending wavelength of light , so instead of saying `` color""",,
21238,5583,"""I must admit I am not sure the point of this thread . If one wants to say that Christians are hypocrites then I 'd agree . In fact , it has to be that way as the Bible clearly states we all fail when it comes to not sinning . This does n't disprove any message though but does show that people are capable of doing the things they hate the most .""","""It was my understanding that the tread is about the hypocrisy of those who want to defend marriage from the inclusion of gay people .""",AGREE,"""If one wants to say that Christians are hypocrites then I 'd agree .""","""the tread is about the hypocrisy of those who want to defend marriage""",,
21239,5584,"""I standby this claim : gays do lobby for a 'right ' to adopt children - do a simple google news search .""","""And if I google `` christian loch ness monster `` , I 'll get some hits too ... None of the gays here are calling it a `` right `` . You 're trying to make hay out of thin air on the issue of what it is `` called `` . The actual `` right `` involved is the right to EQUAL PROTECTION . A constitutional right which mandates that people are free from unwarranted discrimination . And preventing gays from adopting is clearly unwarranted .""",DISAGREE,"""for a 'right ' to adopt children -""","""A constitutional right which mandates that people are free from unwarranted discrimination .""",,
21255,5585,"""Kenneth Miller : These are all elements , as I understand them , of the creation science or the creationist or scientific creationism movement . Now the difference between this movement and intelligent design ironically is that intelligent design has withdrawn the testable scientific predictions made by scientific creationists .""","""So Miller says that ID is less worthy , scientifically , than even Young Earth Creationism ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !""",DISAGREE,"""These are all elements , as I understand them , of the creation science""","""So Miller says that ID is less worthy , scientifically , than even Young Earth""",,
21257,5586,"""Should the Georgia General Assembly go back to law school or what ?""","""They can go somewhere ( feel the heat ) but law school would not be my first choice .""",AGREE,"""Should the Georgia General Assembly go back to law school or what ?""","""They can go somewhere ( feel the heat ) but law school would not be my first choice .""",,
21268,5587,"""I 'm just wondering why all of the other species in the world , of which most would agree we evolved from are considered `` in nature `` yet we are n't . We are allowed to kill flies all the time but not humans . What makes us so elite ? Why are we above the term `` animal `` for most people ? Many people for gay marriage will argue that since animals are gay as well that proves gayness is natural . I say what is so outragous about the fact that they could be making a decision too ? I am for gay marriage being legal but that 's not what I 'm talking about . Are we so arrogant that we assume we are the only animals capable of thought or choices ?""","""I think your questions could be considered in a theological context . We 're taught that we are a `` special creation `` , made in God 's image . Then as a added bonus he gave us dominion over other animals , which is a great source of boastfulness for some people ( Consider the pride of a man , his chest swelling as he contemplates his intellectual superiority over a billy goat , for instance ) . This combination allows for the thinking that humans are n't natural in this world and are somehow above it all IMO , which leads to your observation of `` arrogance `` .""",AGREE,"""I 'm just wondering why all of the other species in the world , of which most would agree we evolved from are considered `` in nature `` yet we are n't .""","""I think your questions could be considered in a theological context .""",,
21282,5588,"""2 . Chemical evolution , explains ( or tries to anyway ) how life could arise from lifeless chemicals naturalsitically .""","""Nope . Chemical evolution has nothing to do with life . It has to do with changes that chemicals undergo when combined under certain conditions . The science of the origin of life is called abiogenesis . Life is a precondition of evolution . If you wish to claim that `` POOF - my god did it `` is the source of that life , then that does n't argue for or against evolution . [ quote ] 3 . Biological evolution , explains how a single-celled creature could evolve into the range of creatures we observe today by naturalistic means ( evidence for this : transitional forms - if I am wrong , then why is the transitional fossil argument still used by many evolutionists ? ) . [ /qote ] While you claim to be seeing the big picture , you actually have a very restricted idea of evolution . Evolution is a change in the frequencies of alleles in a population over time . Unless you can apply that to the big bang , changes in chemicals , and even the origin of life , you are not talking about evolution . You are trying to apply your misunderstanding the the science of biology . You are demanding that you should be able to define what biologists mean by the vocabulary they use .""",DISAGREE,"""Chemical evolution , explains ( or tries to anyway ) how life could arise from lifeless chemicals naturalsitically .""","""Nope . Chemical evolution has nothing to do with life . It has to do with changes that chemicals undergo when combined under certain conditions""",,
21285,5588,"""2 . Chemical evolution , explains ( or tries to anyway ) how life could arise from lifeless chemicals naturalsitically .""","""Nope . Chemical evolution has nothing to do with life . It has to do with changes that chemicals undergo when combined under certain conditions . The science of the origin of life is called abiogenesis . Life is a precondition of evolution . If you wish to claim that `` POOF - my god did it `` is the source of that life , then that does n't argue for or against evolution . [ quote ] 3 . Biological evolution , explains how a single-celled creature could evolve into the range of creatures we observe today by naturalistic means ( evidence for this : transitional forms - if I am wrong , then why is the transitional fossil argument still used by many evolutionists ? ) . [ /qote ] While you claim to be seeing the big picture , you actually have a very restricted idea of evolution . Evolution is a change in the frequencies of alleles in a population over time . Unless you can apply that to the big bang , changes in chemicals , and even the origin of life , you are not talking about evolution . You are trying to apply your misunderstanding the the science of biology . You are demanding that you should be able to define what biologists mean by the vocabulary they use .""",DISAGREE,"""how life could arise from lifeless chemicals naturalsitically .""","""You are trying to apply your misunderstanding the the science of biology .""",,
21291,5589,"""Yet according to PP themselves , they provide FAR more abortions and EC services than any of their other services . : P PPFA Services ( 2002-2003 ) Surgical abortions : 227,385 Emergency contraception : 633,756 Prenatal care : 15,860 Adoption referrals : 1,963 ( Source : www.plannedparenthood.org )""","""You left out a couple of things , though , which makes your post less reliable . But so nobody gets confused or deceived , here is more accurate statistics : http : //www.plannedparenthood.org/lib ... 2Services.html -- -- Service No . of Procedures Referrals Reversible Contraceptive Clients — Women 2,208,483 Emergency Contraception Clients 633,756 Tubal Sterilization Clients 680 Reversible Contraceptive Clients — Men 60,476 Vasectomy Clients 2,522 Abortion Procedures 227,375 HIV Testing Clients — Women 126,477 HIV Testing Clients — Men 48,991 Prenatal Clients 15,860 Infertility Clients 325 Colposcopy Procedures 31,248 Cryotherapy Procedures 3,913 LOOP/LEEP Procedures 1,781 Midlife Clients 10,575 Pregnancy Tests 1,081,772 Breast Exams/Breast Care 1,062,727 Adoption ( Referred Out ) 1,963 Primary Care Clients 24,483 STI Procedures , Women and Men 1,255,036 Other Services — Women 58,626 Other Services — Men 17,905 Totals 6,873,011 Total Unduplicated Clients 2,744,554 - In 2002 , more than 1,500 affiliate staff and volunteer educators provided nearly 101,000 educational programs to more than 1.4 million people of all ages and in a variety of settings - more than 6,500 training programs were provided by 117 affiliate staff and volunteers to more than 66,000 professionals who work with children , teens , and young adults - In 2002 , plannedparenthood.org logged more than 720,000 visits per month and teenwire®.com received approximately 400,000 visits per month and replied to more than 500 personal inquiries a week . PPFA also produced and distributed more than two million consumer health pamphlets . The Katharine Dexter McCormick Library responded to more than 3,000 research and information requests from researchers , sexual health professionals , and the general public -- -- So your claim about their abortions being more in number than their other services , well that just turned out to not be true .""",DISAGREE,"""according to PP themselves , they provide FAR more abortions and EC services than any of their other services .""","""You left out a couple of things , though , which makes your post less reliable . But so nobody gets confused or deceived ,""",,
21308,5591,"""What 's a ZEF ?""","""OH MY GOD ! You 're in an abortion debate and you do n't even know what a ZEF is ? What a joke ! You have just lost all credibility . Please wait for the ride to come to a complete stop before attempting to exit .""",DISAGREE,"""What 's a ZEF ?""","""OH MY GOD ! You 're in an abortion debate and you do n't even know what a ZEF is ? What a joke !""",,
21328,5593,"""Have you your heard of a guy named kent Hoviand ?""","""Yes . He a complete fraud . Why ?""",AGREE,"""Have you your heard of a guy named kent Hoviand ?""","""Yes . He a complete fraud . Why ?""",,
21329,5593,"""Have you your heard of a guy named kent Hoviand ?""","""Yes . He a complete fraud . Why ?""",AGREE,"""Have you your heard of a guy named kent Hoviand ?""","""Yes . He a complete fraud . Why ?""",,
21378,5601,"""# 2 - Can anyone prove to me without a doubt abiogenesis is the way life began , even though no one was there to observe it ?""","""Not even the scientists claim to know how it happened . Abiogenesis is the science that studies the possibilities . It is far more reasonable to conclude that life arose naturally than that it was a miracle by some magical being who did something somewhere some time in the past .""",DISAGREE,"""Can anyone prove to me without a doubt abiogenesis is the way life began""","""Abiogenesis is the science that studies the possibilities .""",,
21384,5602,"""From time to time our timekeepers must adjust their super accurate atomic clocks to synchronize them with the Earth 's slowing rotation whose day/night cycles we base our lives on .""","""Actually , that 's not true . The standard upon which the `` super accurate atomic clocks `` are based is slightly different from the actual rotation of the earth . It is as if you had two clocks that kept time slightly differently . I have to adjust the time on my grandfather clock all the time - every time I raise the weights I reset it to the correct time . It used to keep pretty good time and require resetting only about every six months but it broke and I had to replace the works . It has taken a good six months to adjust the speed to the point that it is now off by only about a minute/week . I 'm still adjusting . That 's what is happening with the `` leap seconds `` that occur from time to time . The adjustment is primarily to sync up two clocks keeping slightly different times , one of which is very accurate , the other of which varies and is slowing at the rate of 0.005 sec/year/year .""",DISAGREE,"""From time to time our timekeepers must adjust their super accurate atomic clocks to synchronize them with the Earth 's slowing rotation whose day/night cycles we base our lives on .""","""Actually , that 's not true . The standard upon which the `` super accurate atomic clocks `` are based is slightly different from the actual rotation of the earth .""",,
21387,5602,"""From time to time our timekeepers must adjust their super accurate atomic clocks to synchronize them with the Earth 's slowing rotation whose day/night cycles we base our lives on .""","""Actually , that 's not true . The standard upon which the `` super accurate atomic clocks `` are based is slightly different from the actual rotation of the earth . It is as if you had two clocks that kept time slightly differently . I have to adjust the time on my grandfather clock all the time - every time I raise the weights I reset it to the correct time . It used to keep pretty good time and require resetting only about every six months but it broke and I had to replace the works . It has taken a good six months to adjust the speed to the point that it is now off by only about a minute/week . I 'm still adjusting . That 's what is happening with the `` leap seconds `` that occur from time to time . The adjustment is primarily to sync up two clocks keeping slightly different times , one of which is very accurate , the other of which varies and is slowing at the rate of 0.005 sec/year/year .""",DISAGREE,"""From time to time our timekeepers must adjust their super accurate atomic clocks""","""Actually , that 's not true""",,
21433,5622,"""Materialists simply hate the idea that life is an abstract , undefinable , unmeasurable process . Somehow , some way , the framers of materialistic ToE just HAD to make life a materialistic , definable  “ thing ” and cram it into a materialistic , definable theory .""","""And yet SS according to you they say .""",DISAGREE,"""Materialists simply hate the idea that life is an abstract , undefinable , unmeasurable process . Somehow , some way , the framers of materialistic ToE just HAD to make life a materialistic , definable  thing and cram it into a materialistic , definable theory .""","""And yet SS according to you they say .""",,
21445,5626,"""A gun death is a gun death , whoever pulls the trigger .""","""a suicide is a suicide by what ever means""",AGREE,"""A gun death is a gun death , whoever pulls the trigger .""","""a suicide is a suicide by what ever means""",,
21467,5635,"""You may disagree with my assessment - fine . I am at least doing you the courtesy of believing you when you say you formulate EAM with the express intention of promoting your personal philosophical views about life .""","""* * Why not ? Why would you doubt me ? Unfortunately for your express denial of the materialist metaphysic as the philosophical view that informs the opinions you are trying to promote , that denial is worse than dubious , it 's ridiculous . Quote : Here you reveal exactly what I 've just spoken of -- you assume that science and the scientific method equates to , is synonymous with , materialism/mechanism . It most certainly is not . Nor is the accompanying assumption , i.e. , that any science which does not strictly adhere to materialust/mechanist assumptions , is not , and can not be , real science . Equally untrue . And here you reveal your prediliction for reading what you want to see into the words of others . [ /quote ] * * Let he who is without sin cast the first stone .""",DISAGREE,"""I am at least doing you the courtesy of believing you when you say you formulate EAM with the express intention of promoting your personal philosophical views about life .""","""Why not ? Why would you doubt me ?""",,
21482,5643,"""Darwinists are the authors of deceit and have pulled a masterful bait-and-switch on society . [ bold added for later ]""","""Yet rather than support his extraordinary claims with any defense that stands up to the slightest scrutiny , supersport once again spams us with another brand new thread saying the same thing that he 's had refuted time and time again on countless forums ... ( No , seriously ; do a search , both on this site and on others . I 'm not kidding . )""",DISAGREE,"""Darwinists the authors of deceit masterful""","""extraordinary claims any defense slightest scrutiny ,""",,
21493,5645,"""`` ( 5 . ) We know for a fact that guns are used defensively 2.5 million times a year , as proven by Gary Kleck & # 8217 ; s very accurate study which made an estimate of between 800,000 and 2.45 million times a year ( a very narrow margin of error that is not statistically significant ) .""","""Even if the number of defensive uses is only 800,000 a year , that 's still a rate of more than 53 to 1 when compared to the number of homicides committed with a firearm .""",DISAGREE,"""a fact that guns are used defensively 2.5 million times""","""that 's still a rate of more than 53 to 1 when compared to the number of homicides committed with a firearm""",,
21504,5648,"""no one disputes that human life begins at conception""","""You know better than that . There are several misinformed posters on this forum who would argue that point 'til the cows come home .""",DISAGREE,"""no one disputes that human life begins at conception""","""You know better than that . There are several misinformed posters on this forum who would argue that point 'til the cows come home .""",,
21508,5649,"""* A little off subject * If gay marriage is legalized , then so should multiple partners for marriage ?""","""Yes absolutely remember that polygamous marriage is not only biblical but also the biblical norm . People should be free to form any type of family structure they want to .""",AGREE,"""If gay marriage is legalized , then so should multiple partners for marriage ?""","""Yes absolutely remember that polygamous marriage is not only biblical but also the biblical norm .""",,
21513,5657,"""The man has no say so whatsoever .""","""That is not necessarily true . I have known girls who have gotten pregnant and wanted an abortion but the fathers of the babies told them they did n't want them to have an abortion so the did n't and now the baby is healthy .""",DISAGREE,"""The man has no say so whatsoever .""","""That is not necessarily true""",,
21517,5658,"""Lurch : So scientists are the ones who define everything ?""","""No . I 'll type slowly so I do n't get ahead of you this time . Follow with your finger and move your lips if no one is watching . Scientists get to define what they mean by the scientific words that they use . Not you and not your preacher . Do I get to define what you mean by the word `` prayer ? `` Why not ?""",DISAGREE,"""So scientists are the ones who define everything ?""","""Scientists get to define what they mean by the scientific words that they use""",,
21519,5659,"""I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong independantly . Not that I have to .""","""Arguments are infinite , your time is not , Slave . This claim is opposed to Real Ultimate Truth . Go back and beg Society to take pity on you , Slave .""",DISAGREE,"""can prove all the arguments wrong independantly .""","""Arguments are infinite , your time is not ,""",,
21520,5659,"""I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong independantly . Not that I have to .""","""Arguments are infinite , your time is not , Slave . This claim is opposed to Real Ultimate Truth . Go back and beg Society to take pity on you , Slave .""",DISAGREE,"""I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong""","""Arguments are infinite , your time is not ,""",,
21524,5660,"""and Hi it 's me .... I find it truly hilarious that you are asking for any evidence -- since you can show NOTHING !""","""What do you want evidence for ? Helpful mutations ? The theory that life evolves ? I believe that I have provided enough evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""find it truly hilarious that you are asking for any evidence -- since you can show NOTHING !""","""What do you want evidence for ?""",,
21529,5661,"""If somebody has a high enough threshold of pain to shrug off being shot , what 's going to keep them from pulling the taser prongs out while they still have muscle control ?""","""Because electricity moves faster than a man 's arm ? Give me one example of this actually happening and I 'll concede that it 's not a ridiculous thing to consider .""",DISAGREE,"""If somebody has a high enough threshold of pain to shrug off being shot ,""","""Give me one example of this actually happening""",,
21531,5662,"""If that is your conception , no wonder you are having problems .""","""I believe I wrote several times that I am not arguing against the rational theory of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""no wonder you are having problems .""","""I am not arguing against the rational theory of evolution .""",,
21559,5672,"""ah yes ... the `` what 's your point `` defense -- even though you just read my point ... which was the blacks got a later start under the darwin plan of evolution -- which prompted the whole `` out of africa `` version evolution so they could avoid their theory being labled as racist . That 's the point ... it was right in front of you . What 's your point for asking such a dumb question ?""","""What do you not understand ? Homo Erectus left Africa as well as stayed . You 're under a idiotic notion that there was a exodus out of Africa . The simplest answer is that some H Es stayed in Africa and were around cohabitating with Sapiens until a 100,000 or so years ago . Do you understand the concept of Occzam 's razor ? http : //www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html you 're wrong as usual .""",DISAGREE,"""which was the blacks got a later start under the darwin plan of evolution -- which prompted the whole `` out of africa `` version evolution so they could avoid their theory being labled as racist .""","""The simplest answer is that some H Es stayed in Africa and were around cohabitating with Sapiens until a 100,000 or so years ago .""",,
21566,5673,"""I did n't mention that the physical entity needs nothing but nourishment , oxygen , and a safe environment to be able to grow into an adult human being , but that is also a statement of fact that can not be reasonably disputed .""","""Actually , it can . The zygote does n't always develop into an adult human being . In fact , about 60-70 % of all zygotes never implants or gets rejected and end up being flushed down the toilet . And of those who do implant , some turn into blighted ovums or hydatidiform moles . So no , your claim is not as all-encompassing as you want to present it . [ quote ] Conception/fertilization is the time in which this physical entity comes into existence . Prior to that time , this unique physical entity did not exist . [ quote ] Which is also true after ANY cell division of any kind , and as such again is a rather meaningless point .""",DISAGREE,"""but that is also a statement of fact that can not be reasonably disputed .""","""Actually , it can .""",,
21582,5676,""" “ Hey Pseudo , try discussing things without adding a strawman everytime. ”""","""You mean a strawman logic fallacy , right ? Yeah that would require me using a statementÂ…not a question . But at least you tried .""",DISAGREE,"""try discussing things without adding a strawman""","""mean a strawman logic fallacy , right ? Yeah that would require me using a""",,
21591,5677,"""Let me also remind you that black people were sentient . Fetuses are not .""","""Ok , what about the black baby in the womb ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""Let me also remind you that black people were sentient . Fetuses are not .""","""Ok , what about the black baby in the womb ? ?""",,
21602,5680,"""This post contains a perfectly simple explanation of why ToE is a sham along with a challenge to any Darwinist to prove me wrong . ToE is constructed on a fraud premise . This premise says that the fundamental unit of evolution is the gene . Whenever an evolutionist talks about  “ evolution ” he ’ s not talking about mere phenotypic change – he ’ s talking about changes in genes . To a Darwinist , just because an animal changes phentoypically , or even if he passes these changes down to progeny does not mean that  “ evolution ” has occurred . A fish could morph into a human , but if there are no changes in genes then this would not be considered `` evolution. `` The only way evolution can happen , by their own definition , is if there is a change in genetics . This premise , I suggest is a complete and total fraud ... and I will explain why now :""","""Well the premise you claim is not the core premise of evolution . Indeed Darwin never invoked genes at all . He did make the observation that some variability was clearly inherited ( but not all variability ) , he also observed that some variants survived and reproduced better than others . From this he concluded that natural selection operated to change the heritable traits exhibited by populations , and extended this to resulting in large changes over long times . Changes sufficient to result in new species which were reproductively isolated or nearly so . To an actual Darwinist genes did not enter the theory at all - they were not known at the time except to an obscure Monk who published in a less than prominent journal ! As to a fish morphing into a human without any genetic alterations .... Produce a case where that has happened and we can discuss it in depth . Till then I will claim that such a transformation can not be accomplished without alteration of the underlying genome . I am most dubious that you have any such example at hand .""",DISAGREE,"""perfectly simple explanation morph into a human""","""observation that some variability Changes sufficient to result""",,
21637,5689,"""b ) The Bible . Despite offers of large cash rewards for anybody who can write a coherent timeline of the events surrounding the Resurrection without contradiction and without omission of information , nobody has been able to do this . The rising of the saints who were `` seen throughout the town `` surely should have been story fodder for years upon years , decades upon decades , centuries upon centuries , yet it seems from the rest of the evidence that the people saw the zombie saints and thought nothing of it .""","""How can the Bible be used as a source while you deny the truth of its claims ? What parts of the Bible are true , and how do you disguingish between the information that is true and not true ? I wonder how a modern court would view the testimony of 500 credible witnesses to a supernatural event ?""",DISAGREE,"""Despite offers of large cash rewards for anybody who can write a coherent timeline""","""How can the Bible be used as a source while you deny the truth of its claims ?""",,
21655,5693,"""FINALLY ! ! ! ! ! excellent news . one state at a time !""","""This is bigger then your realize . Prop 8 goes down on equal protection grounds then all state constitutional amendments go down .""",AGREE,"""excellent news one state at a time !""","""bigger then your realize equal protection grounds""",,
21663,5694,"""`` So , anyhow , can you tell me , in a nutshell , how looking at the bone structure can tell one how a creature lived it 's life ? It 's specific habitats ? What it ate ? `` Outside of a nutshell , you still did n't answer the question .""","""I did n't answer or you did n't understand ? Actually I did answer . The knee joint I described is from a bipedal hominid - there is no question about it . The skull , even though I gave it very ape-like features , is from a biped . There are many examples of what I described .""",DISAGREE,"""So , anyhow , can you tell me , in a nutshell , how looking at the bone structure can tell one how a creature lived it 's life ? It 's specific habitats ?""","""n't answer or you did n't understand ?""",,
21667,5695,"""I wonder if a large reason that most pro-choice people are pro-choice is because they have either had an abortion themselves ... or because they are very close to someone who has had an abortion .""","""I wonder why you keep posting these pointless threads . This statement is beyond idiotic . No , that is not why we 're pro choice , at least not all of us .""",DISAGREE,"""I wonder if a large reason that most pro-choice people are pro-choice is because they have either had an abortion themselves""","""I wonder why you keep posting these pointless threads""",,
21678,5697,"""What - did someone have to teach you how/when/where to be turned on ? Who taught you to be straight ? To look at boys ?""","""I taught myself . Like gays teach themselves .""",AGREE,"""Who taught you to be straight ? To look at boys ?""","""I taught myself . Like gays teach themselves .""",,
21701,5702,"""Lets assume for a moment that intelligent design is true , what can we then do with it ?""","""Convert""",DISAGREE,"""Lets assume for a moment that intelligent design is true , what can we then do with it ?""","""Convert""",,
21711,5704,"""In fact some of the most ardent anti-abortion people I 've met are also some of the most ardent anti-comprehensive sexual education people as well . It 's like banning an action without trying to resolve why it happens in the first place .""","""o_c hit the nail on the head . The intent is to encourage sexual responsibility . The problem is that this is what Planned Parenthood does . These numbskull protesters have their idea of what sexual responsibility is : abstinence outside of marriage . The problem is that this is a pipe dream ; you wo n't stop people from having sex using threats and scare tactics . Instead , the only thing this fearmongering accomplishes is scaring people into being caught with contraceptives by authority figures , so they do n't have any ... but they still have sex . Contrastingly , PP encourages proper and effective contraception and sexual health . Only an XXXXX ca n't see which one goes farther toward preventing the abortions that those XXXXXX are protesting in the first place .""",AGREE,"""In fact some of the most ardent anti-abortion people I 've met are also some of the most ardent anti-comprehensive sexual education""","""The problem is that this is a pipe dream ; you wo n't stop people from having sex using threats and scare tactics .""",,
21720,5713,"""I 'll post another in the next couple of days .""","""Bless your heart , Lurch . heidi""",AGREE,"""post another in the next couple of days""","""Bless your heart , Lurch .""",,
21721,5713,"""I 'll post another in the next couple of days .""","""Bless your heart , Lurch . heidi""",AGREE,"""I 'll post another in the next couple of days .""","""Bless your heart ,""",,
21745,5718,"""How can you not see what it is ? And also , how can you assume everything is a human without any criteria ? With your logic , I have to assume anything that shares human DNA is a human being .""","""You did n't answer the question .... what is your standard for intelligence ? You also incorrectly use my logic .""",DISAGREE,"""I have to assume anything that shares human DNA is a human being .""","""what is your standard for intelligence ?""",,
21761,5731,"""Placing children with gay couples is not much different than placing them in the custody of pedophiles , that is , although a gay couple may mimic the duties of excellent caring parent/s , the morally corrupting and socially destructive influence for the 'guinea pig ' ( child ) of same sex 'parents ' is unavoidable .""","""So claimeth the troll . Proven wrong by NUMEROUS research articles . http : //www.apa.org/pi/l & amp ; gref.html""",DISAGREE,"""Placing children with gay couples is not much different than placing them in the custody of pedophiles""","""Proven wrong by NUMEROUS research articles""",,
21790,5745,"""Last time I checked , I was fairly human""","""I 'm glad that you qualified your answer with `` fairly `` . It certainly is n't normal to consider an infant NOT a person .""",AGREE,"""Last time I checked , I was fairly human""","""I 'm glad that you qualified your answer with `` fairly ``""",,
21804,5749,"""The big bang is nonsense .""","""Really ? Wow , I didn ’ t know thatÂ… books with their edjumacational benefits ...""",DISAGREE,"""big bang is nonsense""","""books with their edjumacational benefits""",,
21820,5756,"""Professional scientists ? Science educators ?""","""So who 's the head honcho ? It 's not like all these professional scientists all see eye to eye . There are even scientists that hold to theistic evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""Professional scientists ? Science educators""","""There are even scientists that hold to theistic evolution .""",,
21831,5760,"""Which issues ? The health issues ? Pregnancy does not physically impact the health of men . Ever . They do n't get pregnant .""","""very smart answer . I never knew men couldnt get pregnant . lol , you just made yourself look like an XXXXX with that statement . by the way , i was referring to those issues are pretty much symptoms of obesity . But the thing is ... obesity isnt natural , the process of pregnancy is totally natural .""",AGREE,"""Pregnancy does not physically impact the health of men""","""I never knew men couldnt get pregnant . lol , you just made yourself look like an XXXXX with that statement .""",,
21838,5769,"""Every child has a fair chance in this world but if a woman chooses to have the baby rather than having an abortion knowing she does n't have the ability to care for it would you rather find the baby dead in a trash can like some woman do or know that she has had an abortion ?""","""In principle , there is no difference between the two as the result is the same , a dead baby .""",DISAGREE,"""Every child has a fair chance in this world but if a woman chooses to have the baby rather than having an abortion""","""In principle , there is no difference between the two as the result is the same , a dead baby .""",,
21843,5770,"""A glimpse of what all this means may be found in my limited theory of quantum potential . In short , it is theory on understanding our universe using potential as the driving force . The speculations of where we are going is quite interesting .""","""Could you give a overview ?""",DISAGREE,"""The speculations of where we are going is quite interesting .""","""Could you give a overview ?""",,
21852,5772,"""And who makes the decision , Rich ? That 's the issue , as I see it . I do n't believe the government has any business in a woman 's body .""","""So you must be against Medicare and Medicaid . I assume you would also be against nationalized healthcare . The government , rather the supreme court dictators , became involved in the woman 's body in 1973 . You must be against roe v. wade .""",DISAGREE,"""who makes the decision , Rich ?""","""you must be against Medicare and Medicaid""",,
21854,5773,"""That 's your business ; I do n't care what you do . I do n't think it 's moral behavior , but I 'm not going to condemn you for it and I sure do n't think it should be illegal . It 's your business .""","""So you do n't think our behavior is `` moral `` in that respect . Do you consider your own behavior `` moral `` and therefore superior to ours ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't think it 's moral behavior , but I 'm not going to condemn you for it""","""So you do n't think our behavior is `` moral `` in that respect .""",,
21859,5774,"""Any of this sinking in ?""","""No . I had to include ten characters in this post""",DISAGREE,"""Any of this sinking in ?""","""No .""",,
21868,5776,"""If you build a coverage mandate , will they come ? By Alec MacGillis Washington Post Staff Writer Monday , October 26 , 2009 People are more likely to buckle their seat belt than follow the speed limit , even though the penalties for speeding are higher . They are more likely to go along with hotel efforts to reduce linen laundry if told that other guests are doing the same . And the question of whether people will follow a government order that they carry health insurance -- an issue that will help determine whether universal health care is a success or costly failure -- will depend on more than the penalty they would pay for refusing , many economists say . This , they say , is the lesson of behavioral economics , a school of thought that holds that people do not necessarily make decisions out of well-reasoned self-interest . It is an approach that has gained a powerful foothold in the Obama White House . '' We 're human . And there are lots of other influences that go into what we do , `` said Kenneth Baer , a spokesman for the Office of Management and Budget . '' One of the most important insights of behavioral economics is that we 're not all rational maximizers calculating our cost and benefits and doing things like a computer. `` As the proposed $ 900 billion health-care legislation inches toward the finish line , a critical unknown is whether people would comply with a mandate on individuals to carry insurance , one of the Democrats ' primary tools to significantly increase the number of Americans who have coverage . The Senate Finance Committee , whose bill has dominated much of the recent debate , set its maximum penalty for noncompliance at $ 750 per year , at the same time creating subsidies to help low-income Americans buy coverage . In the House , the penalty is based on income , but works out to about the same for a middle-class family . As the behavioral economists see it , compliance will depend not only on the penalties and cost of coverage , but also on the ease of signing up for coverage and whether people can be persuaded that it is a widely accepted social norm . They point to the large number of eligible people who fail to take advantage of Medicaid , food stamps and Pell grants as a sign that perceived inconvenience can keep people from taking steps in their economic interest . By contrast , the Medicare drug benefit program has achieved high enrollment partly because low-income Medicare recipients did not need to apply for subsidies if they already qualified for Medicaid . '' Non-financial things matter. . . . When the choice itself is complicated , it can deter people from making choices , `` said William J. Congdon of the Brookings Institution . '' The small hassles associated with taking up programs -- driving to an office , filling out a form -- have a disproportionate effect in discouraging people. `` The record of mandates is mixed , according to research done by Sherry Glied , a Columbia University professor of health policy who has been nominated for a position in the administration . The rates of people buying car insurance , for example , vary among states and do not correlate directly with the size of penalties for going without insurance . Overall , she found , mandates work best when compliance is relatively easy and affordable , when penalties are `` stiff but not excessive , `` and when enforcement is prompt and routine . The thinking is that people tend to settle for the default option -- in the most oft-cited example , people are far more likely to participate in a 401 ( k ) savings plan at work if they are automatically enrolled in it , with the choice of opting out . OMB Director Peter Orszag has done research on that point , and Cass R. Sunstein , the director of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs , featured it in `` Nudge , `` the 2008 popularization of behavioral theory that he co-authored . Some experts argue against setting up an equivalent default enrollment for health insurance , since it would require spending money and choosing an insurer . But others , including one of the behavioral economists hired by Orszag , Harvard University 's Sendhil Mullainathan , have argued for using the tax system to collect automatic payments for health premiums . washingtonpost.com""","""So much for choice . Obama 's little socialist minions want to use the tax system to collect healthcare premiums if you do n't comply . After all , getting employers to collect income taxes before you even see your money has worked for these leeches in the past .""",DISAGREE,"""coverage mandate universal health care Obama White House '' `` Harvard University 's Sendhil Mullainathan , have argued for using the tax system""","""So much for choice Obama 's socialist minions want to use the tax system to collect healthcare premiums if you do n't comply""",,
21886,5780,"""Once again , just because I 'm `` different `` does n't mean that I have 2 extra ears because my parents ' egg just decided to change one day . I am still a human being , not a different specie .""","""But evolutionary theory does n't claim that species arise in a single generation . How does it make your point to argue against claims that evolutionary biologists do n't make ? In fact , is it honest to misrepresent evolutionary theory ?""",DISAGREE,"""just because I 'm `` different `` does n't mean that I have 2 extra ears because my parents '""","""But evolutionary theory does n't claim that species arise in a single generation .""",,
21910,5785,"""I did , you rejected my evidence with your usual excuses .""","""And the fact that you ca n't understand why it was rejected is whose fault ?""",DISAGREE,"""I did , you rejected my evidence with your usual excuses .""","""And the fact that you ca n't understand why it was rejected is whose fault ?""",,
21914,5785,"""I did , you rejected my evidence with your usual excuses .""","""And the fact that you ca n't understand why it was rejected is whose fault ?""",DISAGREE,"""I did , you rejected my evidence with your usual excuses .""","""the fact that you ca n't understand why it was rejected is whose fault ?""",,
21917,5786,"""New York 's tough gun-control laws were central to its success in reducing crime .""","""Really ?""",DISAGREE,"""gun-control laws were central""","""Really""",,
21953,5791,"""If evolution was real , and consistent as it is proposed to be , then there is absolutely no reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive due to competition as is suggested regarding the extinction of our early competitors , then they too should have evolved and in a worst case scenario we would have a Planet of the Apes type existence with a World with multiple intelligent creatures on the evolutionary ladder .""","""And that 's almost certainly how things were at least once in the past : several hominid species migrating , competing , evolving - we 're the descendants of the ones that won . That 's what you fail to appreciate by continuing to insist that 'science says ' fossil hominids are our ancestors . Science says no such thing . Science says this was Planet of the Apes - and we won . Why are there still chimps , then ? Because they were n't competing with us . Think : the same ecological reasons why chimps could n't evolve our level of intelligence made it not worth our while to fight them for that territory . Does n't that make beautiful , perfect sense ? Only since we 've started exporting our ecology , cutting down jungles and so on - only since then have we come into competition with them , to their cost . If we 're not careful , the answer to the fatuous question `` If we evolved from chimps , why are there still chimps `` will be `` there are n't `` . It 's silly to attach significance to the fact we 're the 'only ' intelligent species . For a start , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the first . Intelligence - our 'level ' of it - was never inevitable ; it 's not some ultimate goal , any more than swimming or flying . But assuming it happens , someone has to be first , and we 're it . Secondly , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the most . So far . And we 're getting smarter - so do n't be so quick to declare us the pinnacle ; you have no idea what peaks are hidden in the clouds ahead . If we 're lucky , in a million years the smartest creature will be one of our descendants , but it could just as easily be whatever creature emerges to claim the territory we leave behind when we become extinct . THREAD REVIEW""",DISAGREE,"""If evolution was real , and consistent as it is proposed to be , then there is absolutely no reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive due to competition as is suggested regarding the extinction of our early competitors""","""that 's almost certainly how things were at least once in the past : several hominid species migrating , competing , evolving - we 're the descendants of the ones that won . That 's what you fail to appreciate by continuing to insist that 'science says ' fossil hominids are our ancestors . Science says no such thing ``""",,
21950,5791,"""If evolution was real , and consistent as it is proposed to be , then there is absolutely no reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive due to competition as is suggested regarding the extinction of our early competitors , then they too should have evolved and in a worst case scenario we would have a Planet of the Apes type existence with a World with multiple intelligent creatures on the evolutionary ladder .""","""And that 's almost certainly how things were at least once in the past : several hominid species migrating , competing , evolving - we 're the descendants of the ones that won . That 's what you fail to appreciate by continuing to insist that 'science says ' fossil hominids are our ancestors . Science says no such thing . Science says this was Planet of the Apes - and we won . Why are there still chimps , then ? Because they were n't competing with us . Think : the same ecological reasons why chimps could n't evolve our level of intelligence made it not worth our while to fight them for that territory . Does n't that make beautiful , perfect sense ? Only since we 've started exporting our ecology , cutting down jungles and so on - only since then have we come into competition with them , to their cost . If we 're not careful , the answer to the fatuous question `` If we evolved from chimps , why are there still chimps `` will be `` there are n't `` . It 's silly to attach significance to the fact we 're the 'only ' intelligent species . For a start , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the first . Intelligence - our 'level ' of it - was never inevitable ; it 's not some ultimate goal , any more than swimming or flying . But assuming it happens , someone has to be first , and we 're it . Secondly , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the most . So far . And we 're getting smarter - so do n't be so quick to declare us the pinnacle ; you have no idea what peaks are hidden in the clouds ahead . If we 're lucky , in a million years the smartest creature will be one of our descendants , but it could just as easily be whatever creature emerges to claim the territory we leave behind when we become extinct . THREAD REVIEW""",DISAGREE,"""reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive Apes type existence with a World with multiple intelligent creatures""","""ecological reasons why chimps could n't evolve our level of intelligence `` But assuming it happens , someone has to be first , and we 're it .""",,
21954,5791,"""If evolution was real , and consistent as it is proposed to be , then there is absolutely no reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive due to competition as is suggested regarding the extinction of our early competitors , then they too should have evolved and in a worst case scenario we would have a Planet of the Apes type existence with a World with multiple intelligent creatures on the evolutionary ladder .""","""And that 's almost certainly how things were at least once in the past : several hominid species migrating , competing , evolving - we 're the descendants of the ones that won . That 's what you fail to appreciate by continuing to insist that 'science says ' fossil hominids are our ancestors . Science says no such thing . Science says this was Planet of the Apes - and we won . Why are there still chimps , then ? Because they were n't competing with us . Think : the same ecological reasons why chimps could n't evolve our level of intelligence made it not worth our while to fight them for that territory . Does n't that make beautiful , perfect sense ? Only since we 've started exporting our ecology , cutting down jungles and so on - only since then have we come into competition with them , to their cost . If we 're not careful , the answer to the fatuous question `` If we evolved from chimps , why are there still chimps `` will be `` there are n't `` . It 's silly to attach significance to the fact we 're the 'only ' intelligent species . For a start , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the first . Intelligence - our 'level ' of it - was never inevitable ; it 's not some ultimate goal , any more than swimming or flying . But assuming it happens , someone has to be first , and we 're it . Secondly , we 're not the 'only ' - we 're the most . So far . And we 're getting smarter - so do n't be so quick to declare us the pinnacle ; you have no idea what peaks are hidden in the clouds ahead . If we 're lucky , in a million years the smartest creature will be one of our descendants , but it could just as easily be whatever creature emerges to claim the territory we leave behind when we become extinct . THREAD REVIEW""",DISAGREE,"""If evolution was real , and consistent as it is proposed to be , then there is absolutely no reason why these other primates which we obviously did n't out survive due to competition""","""That 's what you fail to appreciate by continuing to insist that 'science says ' fossil hominids are our ancestors""",,
21994,5795,"""Conciousness is n't non material - it is the emergant patten that arises from the networks of neurones in the brain .""","""Consciousness is created ( in my view ) by the brain - but I guess it could be described as non-material in the sense that the certainty of its detection is a subjective event . I know that the activity of brain `` waves `` can be monitored , but the stream of consciousness that they give rise to is entirely interior to the mental environment .""",DISAGREE,"""Conciousness emergant patten that arises from the networks""","""sense that the certainty of its detection is a subjective event . `` the stream of consciousness that they give rise to is entirely interior""",,
22009,5797,"""im not saying the religions are bad . BUT DONT DONT GO SEE HARRY POTTER BECOUSE A BOOK SAID IT IS EVIL . people like that are just close minded jurks""","""Actually I have read the entire Bible and it never mentioned Harry Potter - even once . People who do n't see Harry Potter are SILLY ! Especially since this latest one is awesome . Very funny . Harry Potter is about witchcraft like Star Wars is about NASA . This is the same silly as those who fretted over the DaVinci Code . It 's FICTION . By the way you spelled `` jerks `` wrong .""",DISAGREE,"""not saying the religions are bad DONT GO SEE HARRY POTTER BECOUSE A BOOK SAID IT IS EVIL""","""I have read the entire Bible and it never mentioned Harry Potter Harry Potter is about witchcraft like Star Wars is about NASA . It 's FICTION""",,
22017,5798,"""I would if such statistics were kept and available for analysis .""","""And why do you suppose they are n't ? Could it be that such an occurrence is exceptionally rare ?""",DISAGREE,"""I would if such statistics were kept and available for analysis .""","""And why do you suppose they are n't ?""",,
22038,5800,"""You show a gap to be inexplicable by trying to explain it from an atheist worldview ? That ’ s an objective , fair way to do it ? So completely unfair and unbiased that ID ’ s different methods of searching add NOTHING ? ?""","""You show a gap to be inexplicable via natural forces by trying to explain it via natural forces . You ca n't do it by hypothesising supernatural forces , because that 's just meaningless unfalsifiable speculation . ID does n't have a different method of searching - all it does is give up quicker . That 's how it 'detected design ' in the eye ; that 's how it 'detected design ' in blood clotting , the immune system - it just gave up looking for natural explanations and assumed design filled the gap .""",DISAGREE,"""You show a gap to be inexplicable by trying to explain it from an atheist worldview""","""You show a gap to be inexplicable via natural forces by trying to explain it via natural forces . You ca n't do it by hypothesising supernatural forces ,""",,
22035,5800,"""You show a gap to be inexplicable by trying to explain it from an atheist worldview ? That ’ s an objective , fair way to do it ? So completely unfair and unbiased that ID ’ s different methods of searching add NOTHING ? ?""","""You show a gap to be inexplicable via natural forces by trying to explain it via natural forces . You ca n't do it by hypothesising supernatural forces , because that 's just meaningless unfalsifiable speculation . ID does n't have a different method of searching - all it does is give up quicker . That 's how it 'detected design ' in the eye ; that 's how it 'detected design ' in blood clotting , the immune system - it just gave up looking for natural explanations and assumed design filled the gap .""",DISAGREE,"""You show a gap to be inexplicable by trying to explain it from an atheist worldview ?""","""That 's how it 'detected design ' in the eye ; that 's how it 'detected design ' in blood clotting ,""",,
22057,5802,"""CASE 2 : What about if you disagreed with how much the government is taxing you . Lets say your tax rate is 25 % but you thought that was too much , would you just pay the amount you felt was fair ?""","""I do n't know if you ever heard of the UK Poll Tax but I could have seen myself protesting by non-payment against such a grotesquely unfair system of taxation had I been of the age to do so .""",DISAGREE,"""would you just pay the amount you felt was fair ?""","""non-payment against such a grotesquely unfair system of taxation had I been of the age to do so .""",,
22052,5802,"""CASE 2 : What about if you disagreed with how much the government is taxing you . Lets say your tax rate is 25 % but you thought that was too much , would you just pay the amount you felt was fair ?""","""I do n't know if you ever heard of the UK Poll Tax but I could have seen myself protesting by non-payment against such a grotesquely unfair system of taxation had I been of the age to do so .""",DISAGREE,"""would you just pay the amount you felt was fair ?""","""I could have seen myself protesting by non-payment""",,
22065,5803,"""I would say that if a diety ca n't go out of his way to demonstrate his existance and make clear what he wants This may surprise you , although we can not observe not test this , God has come down to Earth many times throughout human history .""","""Your reason for believing this lies entirely within the Bible . I hardly consider a 1500 year old book `` making clear what he wants `` . Particularly given that even among those who believe the book , they still ca n't agree on what God wants . And of course , that does n't even beging to address the issue of all the other holy books which contradict the Christian Bible . You may personally believe that you know what God wants , but if so it 's not because God has been clear about it .""",DISAGREE,"""I would say that if a diety ca n't go out of his way to demonstrate his existance and make clear what he wants This may surprise you , although we can not observe not test this ,""","""Your reason for believing this lies entirely within the Bible .""",,
22096,5815,"""I 'm about as far right as you can get politically . So far right that I do n't believe that the government has any grounds for regulating substances that we want to ingest , smoke , snort or inject . Where I differ from those on the Left is I do n't feel compelled to help the druggies who get themselves in over their heads . To me , if you jump in a lake with weights around your ankles , do n't expect me to jump in after you . Want to spend your life stoned , fine . Just do n't expect me to pay your medical bills when you get sick . '' Die * * * * er ! `` As Scrooge once quipped `` better to die and decrease the surplus population. ``""","""Idealy this MIGHT not be a bad solution ... however , the risks to everyone else and the pain it would cause the rest of society would probably be greater .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't believe that the government has any grounds for regulating substances that we want to ingest , smoke , snort or inject .""","""the risks to everyone else and the pain it would cause the rest of society would probably be greater .""",,
22106,5817,"""Does n't this show just how desperate some are to `` invent `` reasons to hold such discriminatory views ?""","""Oh , I do n't know ... he could be on to something . Of course , applying his and Kurtz 's logic to other situations could explain some other modern day mysteries . For example : From Colson 's article : For thirty years I have been going into prisons across America . It has been a wonderful opportunity to share Christ , but it has also been depressing to watch the prison population explode at the same time : When I left prison thirty years ago , there were 239,000 inmates—now there are 2.3 million in America.Clearly , his 30 years of visiting prisons has caused the explosion in the prison population . Maybe is was all the Bible thumping ... Ahem .""",DISAGREE,"""Does n't this show just how desperate some are to `` invent `` reasons to hold such discriminatory views ?""","""I do n't know ... he could be on to something""",,
22107,5817,"""Does n't this show just how desperate some are to `` invent `` reasons to hold such discriminatory views ?""","""Oh , I do n't know ... he could be on to something . Of course , applying his and Kurtz 's logic to other situations could explain some other modern day mysteries . For example : From Colson 's article : For thirty years I have been going into prisons across America . It has been a wonderful opportunity to share Christ , but it has also been depressing to watch the prison population explode at the same time : When I left prison thirty years ago , there were 239,000 inmates—now there are 2.3 million in America.Clearly , his 30 years of visiting prisons has caused the explosion in the prison population . Maybe is was all the Bible thumping ... Ahem .""",DISAGREE,"""Does n't this show just how desperate some are to `` invent `` reasons to hold such discriminatory views ?""","""Oh , I do n't know ... he could be on to something . Of course , applying his and Kurtz 's logic to other situations could explain some other modern day mysteries .""",,
22144,5833,"""What were the circumstances of your , `` looking at a gun , barrell end facing you , with a criminal on the other end `` ? I live in a place where local evening news includes a story about children being shot or killed at least weekly . I have never been accosted by an armed assailant . Hence , I see no reason I need to carry a concealed handgun in order to be brave enough to move about my hometown .""","""Then I would consider living in a different neighborhood , because if that many kids are getting shot , they are gang members , because outside of gang members , according to statistics , it does not happen that often , and certainly not in one area . As far as why I was looking down the barrell of an assault rifle , it was the result of road rage .""",DISAGREE,"""I live in a place where children being shot or killed at least weekly I see no reason I need to carry""","""I would consider living in a different neighborhood because they are gang members""",,
22152,5834,"""I can indeed call an apple an orange . That I do so does not change what they are , only the label I give them . If we changed the definition of `` apple `` to include the physical attributes of an orange , then an orange would be an apple . '' Person `` is not a physical object , but a label . If the definition of `` person `` is changed to include a fetus , then a fetus would be a person .""","""The definition of `` person `` is a living human . obviously the fetus is living , so it is a human . www.dictionary.com""",DISAGREE,"""definition `` '' `` person fetus""","""The definition of `` person `` is a living human . obviously the fetus is living , so it is a human . www.dictionary.com""",,
22156,5835,"""The fact that freedom of speech is still valid has nothing to do with this - the constitution does n't rise and fall as one , or the concept of 'amendments ' would not exist .""","""Oh , really ? Translation : the only amendments that rise and fall are the ones that I want to .""",DISAGREE,"""the constitution does n't rise and fall as one ,""","""Oh , really ?""",,
22166,5836,"""are you suggesting that the chemical ingredients that make nylon never existed before man combined them to create nylon ? The bacteria works on a microscopic level and could n't care less what product we have made from those chemicals which it thrives on . So your example is both fallacious and moot .""","""So , when you talk about the chemical ingredients are you talking about compounds or elements ? If you are talking about compounds Peeling 's point is valid . If you are talking about elements you answer your own question .""",DISAGREE,"""are you suggesting that the chemical ingredients that make nylon never existed before man combined them to create nylon ? bacteria works on a microscopic level and could n't care less what product we have made from those chemicals""","""So , when you talk about the chemical ingredients are you talking about compounds or elements ? If you are talking about compounds Peeling 's point is valid . If you are talking about elements you answer your own question .""",,
22176,5838,"""An interesting analysis of that article you keep quoting from the World Net Daily . http : //www.saneguns.org/commentary/comment002.html""","""More propaganda ! Analysys my thoin ! its propagandist opinionary `` The news does reach the press -- including WorldNetDaily , which gives it a particularly ... ah ..... WorldnetDaily spin . ( WND , out of California , still believes Ken Starr is part of the Vince Foster cover-up ) . `` ^^^Ad Hominen ? They hold a certain opinion on something completley unrelated to prove that WND does not know what its talking about .... Nothing to back this claim up , nor any attempt to show contradicting data . They mysteriously have data from a website from what I could tell was last updated in 1996 that does not even ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT USE OF GUNS IN CRIME ! Pitiful .""",DISAGREE,"""interesting analysis World Net Daily http : //www.saneguns.org/commentary/comment002.html""","""More propaganda ! Analysys my thoin ! its propagandist opinionary `` WorldnetDaily spin""",,
22190,5847,"""If living things didn ’ t reproduce , then life would quickly disappear : and since life has existed continuously on Earth for nearly four billions years , then life must be able to reproduce .""","""While that may be true of life in general , all it really logically entails is that SOME – not all – organisms throughout all of life ’ s history were able to reproduce . And at a smaller scale , it does not apply to any individual organism : it doesn ’ t tell us that in order for organism X to be considered living that it must reproduce ( take for example , mules ) . Must All Living Organisms Die ? An implicit assumption in the last several arguments is that all living things must die . After all , if a living organism didn ’ t die , then it wouldn ’ t need to reproduce in order to persist , even for 4 billion years . We need to ask ,  “ Does this assumption of universal death hold ?  ” Yes , well , at least for all instances of life that we currently know of . Thus , it is a conclusion based on induction , not on necessity . Consider a species capable of repairing itself indefinitely . Sound far fetched ? Well , we humans ourselves are desiring to do just that . And to an extremely limited degree , we have succeeded . Of course , we still have an enormous distance left before fully succeeding , but if we were to eventually do so , then could it really be said that reproduction is a requirement to consider humans as being alive ? No . We ’ d be like  “ immortal mules ” : we ’ d be alive , yet incapable of reproducing Â… but unlike mules , we wouldn ’ t need to be continually replaced by reproduction . After all , we could stop reproducing ( women might really like that idea ! ) and instead focus on repairing those that currently exist . Perhaps , though , we  “ immortal mules ” , by simply repairing ourselves and maintaining the status quo , would still somehow die : after all , nature shows us that those organisms that don ’ t adapt to the ever changing conditions on Earth just don ’ t last . Perhaps the changes in our environment would be too dramatic to be handled by simply replacing what is damaged with a new part . This line of reasoning fails since our intent is not simply to repair ourselves , but to improve ourselves as well . Humans intend to direct their own bodily evolution , either via installed hardware or through genetic manipulations , adapting our bodies to changes in the environment . And if we ever reach this ultimate goal ( is it a good goal ? ! ) , then we could save energy by modifying our bodies to eliminate the no-longer-required processes involved in reproduction . Conclusion Based on the above lines of reason , I assert that reproduction is not an absolute requirement of life : that something could be considered to be alive without it necessarily needing to be able to reproduce .""",DISAGREE,"""continuously on Earth for nearly four billions years , then life must be able to reproduce .""","""that something could be considered to be alive without it necessarily needing to be able to reproduce .""",,
22188,5847,"""If living things didn ’ t reproduce , then life would quickly disappear : and since life has existed continuously on Earth for nearly four billions years , then life must be able to reproduce .""","""While that may be true of life in general , all it really logically entails is that SOME – not all – organisms throughout all of life ’ s history were able to reproduce . And at a smaller scale , it does not apply to any individual organism : it doesn ’ t tell us that in order for organism X to be considered living that it must reproduce ( take for example , mules ) . Must All Living Organisms Die ? An implicit assumption in the last several arguments is that all living things must die . After all , if a living organism didn ’ t die , then it wouldn ’ t need to reproduce in order to persist , even for 4 billion years . We need to ask ,  “ Does this assumption of universal death hold ?  ” Yes , well , at least for all instances of life that we currently know of . Thus , it is a conclusion based on induction , not on necessity . Consider a species capable of repairing itself indefinitely . Sound far fetched ? Well , we humans ourselves are desiring to do just that . And to an extremely limited degree , we have succeeded . Of course , we still have an enormous distance left before fully succeeding , but if we were to eventually do so , then could it really be said that reproduction is a requirement to consider humans as being alive ? No . We ’ d be like  “ immortal mules ” : we ’ d be alive , yet incapable of reproducing Â… but unlike mules , we wouldn ’ t need to be continually replaced by reproduction . After all , we could stop reproducing ( women might really like that idea ! ) and instead focus on repairing those that currently exist . Perhaps , though , we  “ immortal mules ” , by simply repairing ourselves and maintaining the status quo , would still somehow die : after all , nature shows us that those organisms that don ’ t adapt to the ever changing conditions on Earth just don ’ t last . Perhaps the changes in our environment would be too dramatic to be handled by simply replacing what is damaged with a new part . This line of reasoning fails since our intent is not simply to repair ourselves , but to improve ourselves as well . Humans intend to direct their own bodily evolution , either via installed hardware or through genetic manipulations , adapting our bodies to changes in the environment . And if we ever reach this ultimate goal ( is it a good goal ? ! ) , then we could save energy by modifying our bodies to eliminate the no-longer-required processes involved in reproduction . Conclusion Based on the above lines of reason , I assert that reproduction is not an absolute requirement of life : that something could be considered to be alive without it necessarily needing to be able to reproduce .""",DISAGREE,"""If living things didn ’ t reproduce , then life would quickly disappear""","""Must All Living Organisms Die ?""",,
22212,5851,"""Why do n't YOU take a class on creation ? Or are YOU afraid that your `` faith `` is too fragile to stand a class on creation ?""","""Oh wait , I have ... I was a creationist for 18 years of my life . 10 of which I was coherent enough to understand some aspects of science and about 5 of which I understood the more complex ones . I know all the Creationist arguments , I have used them . And I used to be a darn good creationist debater ... I could almost convince atheists who just did n't understand enough science to refute me . I had learned evolution in high school . I could repeat the facts , but I did n't believe them . I never argued with high school biology teachers becasue they did n't know enough about it to argue back . Then cam college . I took a course in evolution , because I am a curious and open-minded person . I went to class I took the notes and I talked to my prof. during his office hours . For each of the proofs he gave me , I gave him reasons ( creationist arguments ) that they were n't proof or that they were wrong , and he was able to easily refute any argument I gave him . I always questioned him and refuted things in the book , but he always refuted mine right back , and he did a better job and used undeniable empirical evidence . ( No I am not going to give you any here I have neither the time nor the degree ) At this point I was a very confused Christian , I talked to other Christians , I found sites online and then I found a creationist debate site . I asked what they thought and after hearing points from all sides : atheist , hard-core creationist , theistic evolution , self-righteous butt heads . I came to my own conclusion with all the facts that I had . Since then I have seen Kent Hovind speak ... and I uh ... wo n't go there . The fact of the matter is ... can my belief in an old evolved earth withstand creationist arguments ... I would say so . Have I taken classes in Creation ... heck yeah . Will I take more in the future ... sure if I think they have anything to add to my knowledge . In fact there is a professor at my college who is a creationist and if he ever speaks I will certainly go to hear him . So am I close minded or afraid to learn something new or change my opinion ... no . I look to find the truth through facts and knowledge . Because after all when you find truth you find God . So instead of attempting to turn my question back to me , why do n't you actually ask yourself ... are you afraid to take a detailed class in evolution taught by someone with a PhD ... could Creationism stand up to it . I ca n't answer that question for you , and I ca n't even tell you whether you should try to find the answer or not , it 's your choice . But do n't forget , whenever you believe something do n't just belive it because someone said so , find out WHY you believe it to make sure that you should""",DISAGREE,"""Or are YOU afraid that your `` faith ``""","""I had learned evolution in high school . I could repeat the facts , but I did n't believe them . I never argued with high school biology teachers becasue they did n't know enough about it to argue back .""",,
22229,5854,"""What sicknesses will we cure with it ?""","""Addiction to internet porn""",DISAGREE,"""What sicknesses will we cure with it ?""","""Addiction to internet porn""",,
22231,5854,"""What sicknesses will we cure with it ?""","""Addiction to internet porn""",DISAGREE,"""What sicknesses""","""Addiction to porn""",,
22256,5859,"""I described materialism embracing new forces and phenomena which have withstood the rigors of the scientific method .""","""* * You can 'describe ' materialism in ways that are untrue , but that wo n't make change the reality of the case . What materialism has done , under a long series of name changes , [ the last being 'naturalism ' , if I 'm not mistaken ] , has been to desperately rationalize the evidence of actual reality in the form of 'forces ' and other phenomena antithetical to its principles and assumptions by pretending that what it says is n't what it means . For example that its denial of all things immaterial and incorporeal and insubstantial does n't apply to forces , mass , energy , and so on . All very darwinian SOP .""",DISAGREE,"""I described materialism embracing new forces and phenomena which have withstood the rigors of the scientific method .""","""You can 'describe ' materialism in ways that are untrue , but that wo n't make change the reality of the case .""",,
22277,5863,"""And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal .""","""More bull XXXX . First , our Creationist seems to forget that many millions of bases in the human genome are nonfunctional . Why would random changes to 3 or 4 of those nucleotides be fatal ? They would n't . Besides , our Creationist is trying to make it seem like all of the millions of mutations he references - which is an invalid number - would occur in a single animal ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ? ! ? ! No , the ~1.5 million nucleotide changes in the human lineage ( half the nucleotide differences between the chimp and human genomes ) would have had about 6 million years to accumulate . Finally , our Creationists seems to be aware of the fact that humans differ among themselves at about 1 out of every 200 base pairs . By his reasoning , should n't we all be dead ?""",DISAGREE,"""And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal .""","""First , our Creationist seems to forget that many millions of bases in the human genome are nonfunctional .""",,
22276,5863,"""And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal .""","""More bull XXXX . First , our Creationist seems to forget that many millions of bases in the human genome are nonfunctional . Why would random changes to 3 or 4 of those nucleotides be fatal ? They would n't . Besides , our Creationist is trying to make it seem like all of the millions of mutations he references - which is an invalid number - would occur in a single animal ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ? ! ? ! No , the ~1.5 million nucleotide changes in the human lineage ( half the nucleotide differences between the chimp and human genomes ) would have had about 6 million years to accumulate . Finally , our Creationists seems to be aware of the fact that humans differ among themselves at about 1 out of every 200 base pairs . By his reasoning , should n't we all be dead ?""",DISAGREE,"""And a random change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal .""","""Finally , our Creationists seems to be aware of the fact that humans differ among themselves at about 1 out of every 200 base pairs .""",,
22283,5864,"""Ha ! do you agree that the first winged animals came from non-winged animals or not ? If so , what 's the difference ?""","""The first winged animals came from animals that had structures very very nearly identical to wings . The first of those came from animals with structures a bit less like wings , and so forth . There was no 'holy # # # # , dude , where did you get those ? ' moment . It 's as if you 're looking at a chunk of stone , a statue , and a chisel , and saying `` There 's no way one lucky hit with that chisel could produce that statue. `` Ca n't you see how absurd that is ?""",DISAGREE,"""winged animals""","""The first winged animals came from animals that had structures very very nearly identical to wings . ``""",,
22293,5866,"""I would like to know where the topic starter stands in this debate , so that a reasonable debate can take place . Do you feel as if they should be excused because of their mental illness , or do you feel they should be punished ? !""","""The Simone persona is not capable of serious thought . Let alone debate . Ad homs , personal attack and spin is what it thinks is debate . The exchange here should tell you all you need to know about this persona .""",DISAGREE,"""where the topic starter stands in this debate""","""Let alone debate . Ad homs , personal attack""",,
22315,5884,"""And what does fast and loose mean ? I 'm confused . I think you are trying to label me .. but I 'm not quite sure what I 'm being labled as .""","""Fast and loose means to do something without fully thinking it through or paying attention to detail . I 'm not trying to label anyone as anything , just pointing out common inconsistencies of logic for people who try and harmonize the real world with the bible .""",DISAGREE,"""I think you are trying to label me""","""Fast and loose means to do something without fully thinking""",,
22333,5888,"""Holy Jesus ! Do n't get your panties in a wad . Creationists include the origin of the universe , the earth and everything else in what the call `` the evolution theory. ``""","""Yes , they do . So why should you make the same mistake ? We correct creationists about this mistake all the time on other boards . See talkorigins debate board . That Hi_Its_Me went along with the mistake showed that he was no longer discussing evolution or even science , but arguing atheism vs theism . The reason we do this is because science and evolution are not atheism and scientific theories have boundaries . No scientific theory gives a worldview or an explanation of everything . Even the anticipated `` theory of everything `` combining Relativity and QM wo n't explain everything . Evolution has the boundary of the first life . It assumes that a universe and living organisms exist . Just like Cell Theory assumes the same things . If you want to discuss the origin of the first life , then you have to talk about the various theories within the field of abiogenesis . If you want to talk about the origin of the universe , then you need to discuss the various theories within the field of cosmology .""",DISAGREE,"""Creationists include the origin of the universe , the earth and everything else in what the call `` the evolution""","""So why should you make the same mistake ? We correct creationists about this mistake all the time ``""",,
22340,5889,"""Nor is it 'natural selection ' at work either .""","""Certainly not . Why would you make such a remark ? While a mutation that allowed a bacteria to metabolize nylon waste products is most certainly an example of evolution , heart transplants ( artificial or otherwise ) are n't . It is an ignorant assertion to claim that they are .""",DISAGREE,"""Nor is it 'natural selection ' at work either .""","""Certainly not .""",,
22348,5891,"""April 16 , 2007 : Seung-Hui Cho , 23 , fatally shot 32 people""","""Does n't count . Took place in a `` gun free zone `` . By law no guns are allowed there , so by law this incident could n't take place .""",DISAGREE,"""Seung-Hui Cho , 23 , fatally shot 32 people""","""By law no guns are allowed there , so by law this incident could n't take place .""",,
22352,5891,"""April 16 , 2007 : Seung-Hui Cho , 23 , fatally shot 32 people""","""Does n't count . Took place in a `` gun free zone `` . By law no guns are allowed there , so by law this incident could n't take place .""",DISAGREE,"""fatally shot 32 people""","""Does n't count Took place in a `` gun free zone , by law this incident could n't take place""",,
22367,5894,"""`` Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling irrationalism and paralyzing obscurantism. `` -- Martin Luther King , Jr .""","""But then again , I guess it just proves my point . Quod erat demonstrandum .""",AGREE,"""Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling irrationalism paralyzing ,""","""I guess it just proves my point""",,
22369,5902,"""not bad for a procedure that does n't exist .""","""Sigh , we have been through this a million times ... the term is defined , doctors testified to it , so yeah it exits .""",DISAGREE,"""for a procedure that does n't exist .""","""the term is defined , doctors testified to it , so yeah it exits .""",,
22375,5905,"""What ? Are you trying to claim that marijuana slows the progress of cancer ? Or did you mean .""","""Actually it 's funny . Mice deprived of THC ( it naturally occurs in the brain ) are smarter than regular mice , but die much earlier . Not because of cancer , but of `` natural `` causes . It would n't be hugely surprising if THC supplements made you live longer , albeit at a lower level of intelligence , even if the smoking aspect of taking it had negative effects that counterbalanced that .""",DISAGREE,"""Are you trying to claim that marijuana slows the progress of cancer ?""","""It would n't be hugely surprising if THC supplements made you live longer ,""",,
22380,5908,"""This is a statement written by someone who obviously has not read scripture . One of the most astonising `` proofs `` if you will , that the Bible is of supernatural origin , is predictive prophecy . Science can not , as you claim , `` explain `` everything , and it has no natural explanation for the predictions made in scripture . How can science explain through statistical probablity the over 600 prophecies in Biblical writings that have come to pass ? Also , how can it explain how supposedly uneducated people ( uneducated in the ways of modern science ) wrote about astronomy as if they knew about the universe as we do today . How could they have described the hydrological cycle as we have only come to know it recently ? ]""","""600 ? Oh really ? Looks like the following scriptures are vague enough that they could apply to anything and nothing at the same time . Making vague enough comments can easily look prophetic . The fact that there are n't specifics is a key failure in your argument . If the bible was truly prophetic and scientifically accurate , terms that would easily be seen as represenativive of the natural force would be found everywhere , yet they are not . You are talking a little and making it to be far more then it is . Once again , anything vague enough can be taken for anything in any light under any condition .""",DISAGREE,"""Science can not , as you claim , `` explain `` everything , and it has no natural explanation for the predictions made in scripture""","""If the bible was truly prophetic and scientifically accurate , terms that would easily be seen as represenativive of the natural force would be found everywhere , yet they are not .""",,
22393,5911,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""Because they are unable to maintain a pregnancy - money , job and education security , health ( physical , mental and emotional ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""Because they are unable to maintain a pregnancy - money , job and education security , health ( physical , mental and emotional ) .""",,
22408,5914,"""Quote : Originally Posted by wascallywabbit Otherwise you would not so vehemently and tenaciously defend that metaphysic against any suggerstionthatits take on reality , its ontology/cosmoly , is incorrect -- even when , as in the case of EAM , that suggestion comes from a metaphysical quarter that has no ideological connection to any religious mythology , and in fact is also antithetical to those myths . That is merely your interpretation of my actions here , and does not reflect my personal motivations .""","""* * Of course it is my interpretation , or if you prefer , my inference from the evidence ; the evidence being your own words and the tone with which you express them .""",AGREE,"""Originally Posted by wascallywabbit Otherwise you would not so vehemently and tenaciously defend that metaphysic against any suggerstionthatits take on reality , its ontology/cosmoly , is incorrect -- even when , as in the case of EAM , that suggestion comes from a metaphysical quarter that has no ideological connection to any religious mythology , and in fact is also antithetical to those myths""","""Of course it is my interpretation , or if you prefer , my inference from the evidence ; the evidence being your own words and the tone with which you express them .""",,
22439,5921,"""I know , you 're right . However , if you do n't want to do as Shady1 and share your sincere experience , tell me what you think the post-abortion trauma means in the grander scheme of things . Does its widespread existence tell us something about abortion as a practise ?""","""Because of my rH factor I have had several spontaneous abortions . I have never needed to have an induced abortion . I am very sorry to note that I felt not a whit of regret over my abortions . I had more important things to attend to .""",DISAGREE,"""post-abortion trauma""","""I felt not a whit of regret over my abortions .""",,
22441,5922,"""Did YOU not read ... He had no idea how many there were , he has been threatened with reataliation etc . etc .""","""So after he was safe at the hotel , locked in his room , he did not call the police for so many hours because ... ?""",DISAGREE,"""Did YOU not read ... He had no idea how many there were , he has been threatened with reataliation etc . etc .""","""So after he was safe at the hotel , locked in his room , he did not call the police for so many hours because ... ?""",,
22440,5922,"""Did YOU not read ... He had no idea how many there were , he has been threatened with reataliation etc . etc .""","""So after he was safe at the hotel , locked in his room , he did not call the police for so many hours because ... ?""",DISAGREE,"""threatened with reataliation""","""police""",,
22454,5924,"""5 panelists does n't equal the opinion of all health professionals .""","""Just , at the very least , 60 % of American physicians . Then there are all those nurses , radiologists , lab technicians , ambulance drivers , medics , emergency room people , etc etc etc ... Not to mention the majority of the American public .""",DISAGREE,"""panelists does n't equal the opinion of all health professionals .""","""Just , at the very least , 60 % of American physicians""",,
22456,5925,"""Licensing systems are very expensive to administer . Canada 's experience with its full licensing and registration system , begun in December 1998 , is not encouraging . The government originally estimated that the cost of licensing Canada 's three million gun owners and registering their seven million guns would be $ 185 million [ Canadian ] over five years including a one-time start-up cost of $ 85 million [ Canadian ] . But , by March 2000 the Canadian Firearms Centre admitted that the system had already cost Canadian taxpayers $ 327 million [ Canadian ] and was running up an annual bill nearly 10 times higher than the government 's original forecast . The March announcement also revealed that although 270,000 valid licenses existed from the country 's earlier gun control system , only 142,000 new licenses had been issued . Using these figures as a baseline for America 's arsenal of 65 million handguns , the estimated cost of such a system here is staggering . Most importantly , licensing and registration in America would have little effect on the vast majority of gun violence , such as unintentional gunshot deaths , suicides and the majority of homicides , since most homicides are the result of arguments between people who know each other and who purchase guns legally . From a political perspective , a battle over licensing and registration brings every gun owner into the fray . The NRA argument that licensing and registration is the first step towards gun confiscation has always been very persuasive with gun owners . In contrast , health and safety regulation of the industry focuses on the conduct of firearm manufacturers . Advocates of licensing and registration often cite automobiles as an example of the value of licensing and registration : we register automobiles and license drivers , so why not guns ? However , licensing and registration—the primary purpose of which was to enforce a system of taxation—had virtually no effect on automobile death and injury . It was not until the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration was established in the 1960s , and changes were forced in automobile design and the driving environment , that decreases were seen .""","""Canada 's registry has had horrific problems , only registering 3/4ths of their 7 million guns , and has been hacked more times than Lizzie Borden 's parents ! Or George Washington 's Cherry Tree for those who do n't know the tale of Ms. Borden ! Canada Gun owners pressuring Conservatives""",AGREE,"""December 1998 , is not encouraging . The government originally estimated that the cost of licensing""","""Borden 's parents ! Or George Washington 's Cherry Tree for those who do n't know the tale of Ms. Borden !""",,
22462,5926,"""I keep hearing the statement let the people decide or let the people vote . Why should people be allowed to vote on my marriage ? No where else and in no other civil rights aspect do we see this type of statement . Would n't it be strange if someone said `` Let the people vote on wether a black man or jewish man can live in a certain neighborhood ``""","""Because you are using a word that already has a definition . Main Entry : mar·riage Pronunciation : \ & # 712 ; mer-ij , & # 712 ; ma-rij\ Function : noun Etymology : Middle English mariage , from Anglo-French , from marier to marry Date : 14th century 1 a ( 1 ) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law Do you see Jews celebrating Christmas ? NO ! They already have a holiday that is defined . And I believe the only reason they added same sex marriage to Webster 's Dictionary is so not to make flamboyant gay men cry . I am not anti-gay , but I am sick of hearing about it . Your rights do not compare to that of a religious background or ethnicity . That 's like comparing an apple to a cardboard box . The only thing the 2 share is the fact that they are nouns . I agree that it should n't be voted on . That 's a waste of my tax dollar . Do you think I ask the government to give me attention because I JUST HAVE to watch Everybody Loves Raymond in hi def ? And you 're in the wrong category if you mention gay rights and civil rights in the same sentence . Civil rights are non political and gays are always protesting something that has to do with the government . I would also like to add that I think it 's tacky that gays ONLY vote for liberals just because they `` love the gays `` . Those people do n't give a # # # # about you . They say that because the Conservatives have n't and intend to get your vote . Voting for one political party over one issue seems morally wrong . You 're gay . Get over it . Move on ..........""",DISAGREE,"""Why should people be allowed to vote on my marriage ? No where else and in no other civil rights aspect do we see this type of statement .""","""Because you are using a word that already has a definition . Main Entry : mar·riage Pronunciation : , Function : noun Etymology : Middle English mariage , from Anglo-French , from marier to marry Date : 14th century 1 a ( 1 ) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law""",,
22487,5931,"""Do you have an answer to how a lizard can morph into a bird considering the amazing difference in the lungs ?""","""Yes . I already addressed that issue . You embarrass yourself by bringing it up again without actually presenting any arguments against my points . But hey . That 's creationism . Just keep hammering away at the same old stories no matter how many times they are debunked . It 's a bit like Goebbels anthem . Tell a lie often enough and people will begin to believe it .""",DISAGREE,"""Do you have an answer""","""embarrass yourself by bringing without actually presenting any arguments Tell a lie often enough and people will begin to believe it .""",,
22489,5932,"""Proof please .""","""Fair enough . Guns stolen are n't the majority , opposed to say , strawbuys or illegal sales . That said , this is still scary : USATODAY.com - States with high crime see more guns stolen""",DISAGREE,"""Proof please""","""Fair enough , States with high crime see more guns stolen""",,
22518,5941,"""Oh good grief ! I have always lived in rough areas . In one city , Alburquerque , a drug deal went sour 10 feet fom where I slept , and a guy had his head blasted away by a shotgun . Where I worked , less than a block away , a gunner massacred everyone in a video rental place . I was even obliged to ferry a guy with a slash on his throat to an ER , I did n't know the stupid beast , I was scared to death , but I felt it my Christian duty ( even though I am not a Christian ) to get the guy to where he could get treatment . And I do n't own a damned gun because I am not chicken-hearted .""","""Well then move out of the rough areas . Stop staying in them like some battered spouse who ca n't seem to break the cycle of abuse and leave their partner . Stop whining about how bad life is because there are guns in America . Imagine how much better if would be if the drug dealers and mass murderers were n't allowed to walk the streets as if they owned them .""",DISAGREE,"""Oh good grief !""","""Well then move out of the rough areas .""",,
22516,5941,"""Oh good grief ! I have always lived in rough areas . In one city , Alburquerque , a drug deal went sour 10 feet fom where I slept , and a guy had his head blasted away by a shotgun . Where I worked , less than a block away , a gunner massacred everyone in a video rental place . I was even obliged to ferry a guy with a slash on his throat to an ER , I did n't know the stupid beast , I was scared to death , but I felt it my Christian duty ( even though I am not a Christian ) to get the guy to where he could get treatment . And I do n't own a damned gun because I am not chicken-hearted .""","""Well then move out of the rough areas . Stop staying in them like some battered spouse who ca n't seem to break the cycle of abuse and leave their partner . Stop whining about how bad life is because there are guns in America . Imagine how much better if would be if the drug dealers and mass murderers were n't allowed to walk the streets as if they owned them .""",DISAGREE,"""I have always lived in rough areas .""","""Well then move out of the rough areas .""",,
22526,5943,"""Sounds contradictory to me !""","""So what is your point ? Are you claiming that the tenets of christianity are in doubt because the several thousand denominations hold contradictory views ? Science proceeds by challenges and contradictions . Contradiction in science is not evidence of doubt but evidence of a field of advance . In religion , it is without question , a matter of the veracity of the ultimate truth . Which of the thousands of christian faiths hold the truth ?""",DISAGREE,"""Sounds contradictory to me !""","""So what is your point ?""",,
22529,5951,"""I wrote a huge post on how animals emerge pre-adapted , and continue to adapt throughout their lifetimes . Do you not see how this could give the ILLUSION of evolution ?""","""Not by any means . Evolution works on genetic change that future generations will inherit . Adaptation does no such thing . It changes an individual , but not its genes . For example , if my parents volunteered to be part of a scientific experiment where they two additional arms fused onto their body before I was ever conceived , I would not be born with two extra arms . On the other hand , if a genetic mutation made it advantageous to have two additional arms , and both my parents had that mutation , I would be born with both arms .""",DISAGREE,"""how animals emerge pre-adapted , continue to adapt throughout their lifetimes . this could give the ILLUSION of evolution ?""","""Not by any means . Evolution works on genetic change that future generations will inherit Adaptation does no such thing""",,
22533,5952,"""you might criticize me for believing evolution happened simply because scientists say it did , but alas , thats the reason why . anyway ...""","""No . Unless you wish to actually undertake the study of the relevant science , that 's what you need to do . Creationists do the same thing . the problem is that creationists tend to accept the word of those who are n't any more educated than they are . Thus , a creationist will accept Hovind 's dust on the moon argument or his shrinking sun argument as `` proof `` of a young earth .""",DISAGREE,"""you might criticize me for believing evolution happened simply because scientists say it did , but alas , thats the reason why . anyway ...""","""No . Unless you wish to actually undertake the study of the relevant science , that 's what you need to do . ``""",,
22551,5955,"""-- but morphing is accomplished by unintelligent random processes , or at least that 's how the story goes --""","""But you just said that the program was designed . You seem to be having trouble making up your mind .""",DISAGREE,"""morphing accomplished by unintelligent random processes ,""","""But you just said that the program was designed . having trouble making up your mind""",,
22559,5956,"""Your arguing apples and oranges . There are laws already on the books , prior to the unfunded mandate statute , that prohibit discrimination in employment . Gays partners have no legal status today , so the granting of legal status to them will result in increased expenditures by business .""","""But there were not always laws on the books that prevented these things . I was presenting a hypothetical situation in which those laws are not already on the books . The situtation was intended to show only that a ruling allowing same-sex marriage would not have to cost companies a dime .""",DISAGREE,"""Your arguing apples and oranges . There are laws already on the books ,""","""But there were not always laws on the books that prevented these things""",,
22576,5959,"""Of course it will have an effect on the gay marriage issue . It will prevent the people of Mass from voting on the issue and place the final decision in the hands of the Pro Gay Democratic Legislature who is owned and controlled by the Gay Lobby . It should also be noted that according to the Mass Constitution , the people have always voted on such issues . The Democratic Party controlled Government wants to change the Constitution against the will of the people who want to vote on this important issue . It 's just another example of the Liberals hijacking the historical political Process and reforming it in their own image .""","""But if this was a republican program , you 'd have no problem with it . You are a rightwing hypocrite , Archie Baby .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's just another example of the Liberals hijacking the historical political Process""","""You are a rightwing hypocrite""",,
22573,5959,"""Of course it will have an effect on the gay marriage issue . It will prevent the people of Mass from voting on the issue and place the final decision in the hands of the Pro Gay Democratic Legislature who is owned and controlled by the Gay Lobby . It should also be noted that according to the Mass Constitution , the people have always voted on such issues . The Democratic Party controlled Government wants to change the Constitution against the will of the people who want to vote on this important issue . It 's just another example of the Liberals hijacking the historical political Process and reforming it in their own image .""","""But if this was a republican program , you 'd have no problem with it . You are a rightwing hypocrite , Archie Baby .""",DISAGREE,"""Pro Gay Democratic Legislature Liberals hijacking the historical political Process and reforming it in their own image .""","""But if this was a republican program , you 'd have no problem with it . rightwing hypocrite""",,
22608,5966,"""Given that this is the gun control forum , it seems logical to focus on gun control rather than other factors relevant to the crime rate .""","""It 's completely illogical .""",DISAGREE,"""it seems logical to focus on gun control""","""It 's completely illogical .""",,
22617,5967,"""sounds like what the supreme court did to terry schiavo""","""And , I 'm sure that Terri Schiavo was fully aware of all that Bush and radical rightwing religionists did for her and appreciates what they did .""",DISAGREE,"""sounds like what the supreme court did to terry schiavo""","""I 'm sure that Terri Schiavo was fully aware of all that Bush and radical rightwing religionists did for her and appreciates what they did .""",,
22631,5968,"""how many animals were there on the Ark , Hank ? you 'll probably tell me 2 times the number of species we have in the world today ... I say , perhaps not . here 's where evolution actually supports the Bible""","""No when talking about the ark , I like to agree on what we are talking about when using the term  ‘ kind ’ . And I like to give the person that believes in the flood the opportunity to define it . That includes whether they think dinosaurs and other extinct animals were on the ark . So I ’ m interested in how you define  ‘ kind ’ and your opinion on the dinosaurs and others .""",DISAGREE,"""how many animals were there on the Ark , Hank ? you 'll probably tell me 2 times the number of species we have in the world today""","""That includes whether they think dinosaurs and other extinct animals were on the ark .""",,
22632,5968,"""how many animals were there on the Ark , Hank ? you 'll probably tell me 2 times the number of species we have in the world today ... I say , perhaps not . here 's where evolution actually supports the Bible""","""No when talking about the ark , I like to agree on what we are talking about when using the term  ‘ kind ’ . And I like to give the person that believes in the flood the opportunity to define it . That includes whether they think dinosaurs and other extinct animals were on the ark . So I ’ m interested in how you define  ‘ kind ’ and your opinion on the dinosaurs and others .""",DISAGREE,"""how many animals were there on the Ark , Hank ?""","""That includes whether they think dinosaurs and other extinct animals were on the ark .""",,
22636,5968,"""how many animals were there on the Ark , Hank ? you 'll probably tell me 2 times the number of species we have in the world today ... I say , perhaps not . here 's where evolution actually supports the Bible""","""No when talking about the ark , I like to agree on what we are talking about when using the term  ‘ kind ’ . And I like to give the person that believes in the flood the opportunity to define it . That includes whether they think dinosaurs and other extinct animals were on the ark . So I ’ m interested in how you define  ‘ kind ’ and your opinion on the dinosaurs and others .""",DISAGREE,"""how many animals were there on the Ark ,""","""when talking about the ark , I like to agree on what we are talking about when using the term""",,
22638,5969,"""Any random change in a complex , specific , functioning system wrecks that system .""","""False . Beneficial mutations in bacteria have been observed in the lab . Far from wrecking the system , they allowed the system to continue to live while those without the mutations died : the mutations improved the system 's ability to survive and perpetuate itself .""",DISAGREE,"""Any random change in a complex , specific , functioning system wrecks that system .""","""False . Beneficial mutations in bacteria have been observed in the lab . Far from wrecking the system , they allowed the system to continue to live while those without the mutations died : the mutations improved the system 's ability to survive and perpetuate itself .""",,
22655,5970,"""One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""","""I see that you lack the integrity to even learn how to spell the words necessary to discuss the topic . Let me help . That is Archaeopteryx . Those who have actually invested the integrity to learn what they are talking about and those who have studied evolutionary theory in detail know that A. is only meaningful when previously referenced and then , only when the species is also mentioned - in this case A. lithographica or A. bavarica . But since you ca n't spell platypus , why would anyone expect that you had actually done a detailed study to the extent that you could spell Archaeopteryx ? But , no matter . Your total ignorance of science is apparent from the very fact that you think that disagreement on some details casts a doubt on the grander theory . ( Of course , you do n't seem to see disagreements on major tenets of faith as evidence against your form of christianity , based primarily on mythology ) A minority of evolutionary biologists disagrees with the theory that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs . One of those is Allan Feduccia , a favorite son of creationists , in spite of the fact that gives no credence to creationism . Creationists even offer quotes from Feduccia as if they were somehow supportive of creationism . Those who do are , without question , totally ignorant of the principles of logic and science . Disproof of one hypothesis does not support any other . Thus , any arguments against evolutionary theory are not support for creationism . Creationism must either stand or fall on its own merits . Scientists ( who were also creationists ) struck down a literal reading of Genesis more than 200 years ago . And yet , American fundamentalist creationists have reject their contradictory findings , based on actual study , in favor of the mythology of nomadic herdsmen .""",DISAGREE,"""A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile""","""yet , American fundamentalist creationists have reject their contradictory findings , based on actual study , in favor of the mythology of nomadic herdsmen .""",,
22652,5970,"""One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""","""I see that you lack the integrity to even learn how to spell the words necessary to discuss the topic . Let me help . That is Archaeopteryx . Those who have actually invested the integrity to learn what they are talking about and those who have studied evolutionary theory in detail know that A. is only meaningful when previously referenced and then , only when the species is also mentioned - in this case A. lithographica or A. bavarica . But since you ca n't spell platypus , why would anyone expect that you had actually done a detailed study to the extent that you could spell Archaeopteryx ? But , no matter . Your total ignorance of science is apparent from the very fact that you think that disagreement on some details casts a doubt on the grander theory . ( Of course , you do n't seem to see disagreements on major tenets of faith as evidence against your form of christianity , based primarily on mythology ) A minority of evolutionary biologists disagrees with the theory that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs . One of those is Allan Feduccia , a favorite son of creationists , in spite of the fact that gives no credence to creationism . Creationists even offer quotes from Feduccia as if they were somehow supportive of creationism . Those who do are , without question , totally ignorant of the principles of logic and science . Disproof of one hypothesis does not support any other . Thus , any arguments against evolutionary theory are not support for creationism . Creationism must either stand or fall on its own merits . Scientists ( who were also creationists ) struck down a literal reading of Genesis more than 200 years ago . And yet , American fundamentalist creationists have reject their contradictory findings , based on actual study , in favor of the mythology of nomadic herdsmen .""",DISAGREE,"""One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""","""I see that you lack the integrity to even learn how to spell the words necessary to discuss the topic That is Archaeopteryx , since you ca n't spell platypus , why would anyone expect that you had actually done a detailed study to the extent that you could spell Archaeopteryx ? Your total ignorance of science is apparent from the very fact that you think that disagreement on some details casts a doubt on the grander theory .""",,
22649,5970,"""One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""","""I see that you lack the integrity to even learn how to spell the words necessary to discuss the topic . Let me help . That is Archaeopteryx . Those who have actually invested the integrity to learn what they are talking about and those who have studied evolutionary theory in detail know that A. is only meaningful when previously referenced and then , only when the species is also mentioned - in this case A. lithographica or A. bavarica . But since you ca n't spell platypus , why would anyone expect that you had actually done a detailed study to the extent that you could spell Archaeopteryx ? But , no matter . Your total ignorance of science is apparent from the very fact that you think that disagreement on some details casts a doubt on the grander theory . ( Of course , you do n't seem to see disagreements on major tenets of faith as evidence against your form of christianity , based primarily on mythology ) A minority of evolutionary biologists disagrees with the theory that birds evolved from theropod dinosaurs . One of those is Allan Feduccia , a favorite son of creationists , in spite of the fact that gives no credence to creationism . Creationists even offer quotes from Feduccia as if they were somehow supportive of creationism . Those who do are , without question , totally ignorant of the principles of logic and science . Disproof of one hypothesis does not support any other . Thus , any arguments against evolutionary theory are not support for creationism . Creationism must either stand or fall on its own merits . Scientists ( who were also creationists ) struck down a literal reading of Genesis more than 200 years ago . And yet , American fundamentalist creationists have reject their contradictory findings , based on actual study , in favor of the mythology of nomadic herdsmen .""",DISAGREE,"""One says A. was mostly bird , the other says mostly reptile . One says A. was a link , another says that A. could not have been a link .""","""I see that you lack the integrity to even learn how to spell the words necessary to discuss the topic . Let me help . That is Archaeopteryx . Those who have actually invested the integrity to learn what they are talking about and those who have studied evolutionary theory in detail know that A. is only meaningful when previously referenced and then , only when the species is also mentioned""",,
22665,5971,"""BTW , I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",AGREE,"""I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",,
22661,5971,"""BTW , I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",AGREE,"""BTW , I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",,
22662,5971,"""BTW , I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",AGREE,"""I think Anthony Flew is wrong about the Christian God .""","""You do n't say !""",,
22667,5972,"""Well , answering you seems to be a waste of time . You ignore/reject any attempts at explaining the things you clearly do not understand , and youlater bring up the exact same things that you have had explained to you as if the subject was never broached before . You are incorrigible and uneducable .""","""well if I do n't get an answer here I 'll just spread it around the whole internet . Fine with me .""",DISAGREE,"""answering you seems to be a waste of You are incorrigible and uneducable .""","""I do n't get an answer here I 'll just spread it around the whole internet .""",,
22685,5976,"""I would be willing to debate anyone on the topic of whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry . I will take the position that they should not .""","""if you can find an impartial judge , i 'll take you up .""",DISAGREE,"""willing to debate anyone on the topic of whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry""","""if you can find an impartial judge , i 'll take you up .""",,
22686,5976,"""I would be willing to debate anyone on the topic of whether homosexuals should be allowed to marry . I will take the position that they should not .""","""if you can find an impartial judge , i 'll take you up .""",DISAGREE,"""I would be willing to debate anyone on the topic of whether homosexuals""","""if you can find an impartial judge""",,
22711,5982,"""Why should they kill a human being in the womb , whether this human being is Arab or not ? Are n't the Arab and non-Arab created by God ? Why all this discrimination among the creation of God ? eanassir""","""I think that you missed the point of the argument . VT is arguing that the low birth rate in the West is attributable to high abortion rates and the high birth rates amongst Arabs creates a numbers game in favor of the Arabs . Since they respect life ( their own , that is ) more than the West , their numbers are growing much quicker , while our lack of respect for human life is causing the gap to widen .""",DISAGREE,"""whether this human being is Arab or not""","""VT is arguing that the low birth rate in the West is attributable to high abortion rates and the high birth rates amongst Arabs creates a numbers game in favor of the Arabs""",,
22720,5984,"""Yep life is sometimes incredibly fine tuned . Create and maintain an oddball environment and some existing species will move in or if there is no existing species which can use the environment something may well eventually evolve to do so . Microbes are incredibly efficient at this because of their short generation times . So are things like nematodes etc .""","""And tapeworms to an extent , they like in stomachs .""",AGREE,"""Yep life is sometimes incredibly fine tuned""","""And tapeworms to an extent , they like in stomachs .""",,
22721,5984,"""Yep life is sometimes incredibly fine tuned . Create and maintain an oddball environment and some existing species will move in or if there is no existing species which can use the environment something may well eventually evolve to do so . Microbes are incredibly efficient at this because of their short generation times . So are things like nematodes etc .""","""And tapeworms to an extent , they like in stomachs .""",AGREE,"""Create and maintain an oddball environment and some existing species will move in Microbes are incredibly efficient at this""","""And tapeworms to an extent they like in stomachs .""",,
22741,5989,"""the dems control congress and the white house just like back in 94 so its time to kick gun nut butt again !""","""Careful Brady . It was passage of the 94 ban that lead to the democrats losing the majority of their seats in the house and senate for over a decade . More people than ever are buying guns , including many first timers , because they know Obama will support whatever gun control gets through congress , and they do n't like that . They know he 's going to go back on his promises to hunters and sportsmen , and that 's going to cost him big in 2012 . This is going to be a very short reign for the democrats .""",DISAGREE,"""the dems control congress and the white house just like back in 94 so its time to kick gun nut butt again""","""It was passage of the 94 ban that lead to the democrats losing the majority of their seats in the house and senate for over a decade .""",,
22756,5992,"""But how can you be against a proven method of reducing abortions at the same time ?""","""It 's a self-defeating question . You 're asking why numbskulls participate in numbskullery .""",DISAGREE,"""how can you be against a proven method of reducing abortions at the same time ?""","""You 're asking why numbskulls participate in numbskullery""",,
22755,5992,"""But how can you be against a proven method of reducing abortions at the same time ?""","""It 's a self-defeating question . You 're asking why numbskulls participate in numbskullery .""",DISAGREE,"""But how can you be against a proven method of reducing abortions at the same time ?""","""You 're asking why numbskulls participate in numbskullery .""",,
22762,6049,"""And the thing that materialists really hate is the concept of miracles….they hate the concept that something real could be beyond the power of their beloved laws of physics and chemistry . This seems to be the thing that really separates Christians from materialists – Christians readily , accept – even revel in – the notion that Jesus died on the cross and rose in 3 days….we revel in the fact that Christ made a return and was seen by his disciples and hundreds more after his death . We revel in the fact that Jesus turned water into wine and glowed a glorious bright , white light up on the mountain . Etc etc""","""You revel in those beliefs , certainly - and not surprising either . All these miracles , and others , embody the personally comforting notion that for special people , the universe makes exceptions . This is a common feature of religions , from the oldest to the newest , ever since we were first intelligent enough to appreciate at a conscious level that there were things in the world we did n't understand and could n't control and which did n't seem to care very much about us , like lightning or crocodiles . As members of a species who have evolved the habit of ingratiating ourselves with other , more powerful members by making the right sounds and employing properly deferential body language , the idea of being able to employ the same techniques to get the uncaring forces of nature on your side is a powerfully seductive one . Certainly it 's more palatable than believing that sometimes the crocodile is already full when you happen to take a dip , and sometimes it is not . Got ta go , back later .""",DISAGREE,"""And the thing that materialists really hate is the concept of""","""You revel in those beliefs , certainly - and not surprising either""",,
22761,6049,"""And the thing that materialists really hate is the concept of miracles….they hate the concept that something real could be beyond the power of their beloved laws of physics and chemistry . This seems to be the thing that really separates Christians from materialists – Christians readily , accept – even revel in – the notion that Jesus died on the cross and rose in 3 days….we revel in the fact that Christ made a return and was seen by his disciples and hundreds more after his death . We revel in the fact that Jesus turned water into wine and glowed a glorious bright , white light up on the mountain . Etc etc""","""You revel in those beliefs , certainly - and not surprising either . All these miracles , and others , embody the personally comforting notion that for special people , the universe makes exceptions . This is a common feature of religions , from the oldest to the newest , ever since we were first intelligent enough to appreciate at a conscious level that there were things in the world we did n't understand and could n't control and which did n't seem to care very much about us , like lightning or crocodiles . As members of a species who have evolved the habit of ingratiating ourselves with other , more powerful members by making the right sounds and employing properly deferential body language , the idea of being able to employ the same techniques to get the uncaring forces of nature on your side is a powerfully seductive one . Certainly it 's more palatable than believing that sometimes the crocodile is already full when you happen to take a dip , and sometimes it is not . Got ta go , back later .""",DISAGREE,"""And the thing that materialists really hate is the concept of miracles….they hate the concept that something real could be beyond the power of their beloved laws of physics and This seems to be the thing that really separates Christians from materialists – Christians readily , accept – even revel in – the notion that Jesus died on the cross and rose in 3 days….we revel in the fact Christ made a return and was seen by his disciples and hundreds more after his death . We revel in the fact that Jesus turned water into wine and glowed a glorious bright , white light up on the mountain . Etc etc""","""You revel in those beliefs , certainly - and not surprising either . All these miracles , and others , embody the personally comforting notion that for special people , the universe makes This is a common feature of religions , from the oldest to the newest , ever since we were first intelligent enough to appreciate at a conscious level that there were things in the world we did n't understand and could n't control and which did n't seem to care very much about us , like lightning or As members of a species who have evolved the habit of ingratiating ourselves with other , more powerful members by making the right sounds and employing properly deferential body language , the idea of being able to employ the same techniques to get the uncaring forces of nature on your side is a powerfully seductive Certainly it 's more palatable than believing that sometimes the crocodile is already full when you happen to take a dip , and sometimes it is not . Got ta go , back later .""",,
22772,6051,"""Hahahaha , there could be 100 crazed flat-earth creationists joining with me in asking questions about evolution and astronomy , and it wouldn & # 8217 ; t be within light years of the panic and scrambling that evolutionists/atheists have been doing for years now concerning ID .""","""Now who 's choosing to believe something that panders to their beliefs without thinking too hard about the details ? Like I said : you 're much happier telling fantastic stories than thinking critically about them . Evolution has been a 'theory in crisis ' for hundreds of years now , and for an equally long time ID has been confidently on the brink of shattering revelations . Call me when something changes""",DISAGREE,"""there could be 100 crazed flat-earth creationists joining with me in asking questions about evolution and astronomy , and it wouldn t be within light years of the panic and scrambling that evolutionists/atheists have been doing for years""","""Now who 's choosing to believe something that panders to their beliefs without thinking too hard about the details ? '""",,
22769,6051,"""Hahahaha , there could be 100 crazed flat-earth creationists joining with me in asking questions about evolution and astronomy , and it wouldn & # 8217 ; t be within light years of the panic and scrambling that evolutionists/atheists have been doing for years now concerning ID .""","""Now who 's choosing to believe something that panders to their beliefs without thinking too hard about the details ? Like I said : you 're much happier telling fantastic stories than thinking critically about them . Evolution has been a 'theory in crisis ' for hundreds of years now , and for an equally long time ID has been confidently on the brink of shattering revelations . Call me when something changes""",DISAGREE,"""it wouldn t be within light years of the panic and scrambling that evolutionists/atheists have been doing for years now concerning ID .""","""Evolution has been a 'theory in crisis ' for hundreds of years now , and for an equally long time ID has been confidently on the brink of shattering revelations .""",,
22779,6052,"""That much is obvious . The legislation gives a special out for RELIGIOUS reasons , but says nothing about non-religious reasons . Duh !""","""Well of course . It 's religious people that are wanting it , and they have religious reasons . Duh ! What would you expect ? ? Or is this just another case of trying to fling any assertion you can at religious people ?""",DISAGREE,"""The legislation gives a special out for RELIGIOUS reasons , but says nothing about non-religious reasons . Duh !""","""Well of course . It 's religious people that are wanting it , and they have religious reasons . Duh ! What would you expect ? ? Or is this just another case of trying to fling any assertion you can at religious people ?""",,
22788,6054,"""Sigh . You defend your version of science by re-stating the definition of your version of science . That is circular reasoning .""","""No more circular than your . Except that your assertions are n't backed up by any evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""You defend your version of science by re-stating the definition of your version of science That is circular reasoning .""","""No more circular than Except that your assertions are n't backed up by any evidence .""",,
22805,6057,"""EDIT : To sum it all up , the Big Bang Theory states that 'nothing exploded and the universe was formed ! '""","""And once more it could not be nothing . Nothing would have no density and no temperature especially densities and temperatures unprecedented in our current universe .""",DISAGREE,"""To sum it all up , the Big Bang Theory states that 'nothing exploded and the universe was formed !""","""And once more it could not be nothing""",,
22809,6058,"""How can it get anymore embarrassing for science that they got the premise wrong for all these years ?""","""Do you actually have any idea how science works ? Why are you not embarrassed for creationism ?""",DISAGREE,"""embarrassing for science""","""have any idea how science works ? not embarrassed for creationism ?""",,
22814,6059,"""No , its not . Thats a strawman . I have never stated anything of the sort .""","""Strawman argument , obviously you never `` said `` it , your inferior Intellect can not articulate what you really mean , it requires articulation by a Superior Being such as I . This the formal structure of your argument , citizen-slave , even if you are too slavebound to recognise Real Ultimate Truth .""",DISAGREE,"""I have never stated anything of the sort .""","""even if you are too slavebound to recognise Real Ultimate Truth .""",,
22848,6071,"""Thompson ignores a second important distinction . In the violinist illustration , the woman might be justified withholding life-giving treatment from the musician under these circumstances . Abortion , though , is not merely withholding treatment . It is actively taking another human being 's life through poisoning or dismemberment . A more accurate parallel with abortion would be to crush the violinist or cut him into pieces before unplugging him .""","""Here they are just quibbling over the method of abortion . One would think they would have the same objection no matter the method , so this is irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""the woman might be justified withholding life-giving treatment from the musician under these circumstances .""","""One would think they would have the same objection no matter the method , so this is irrelevant .""",,
22846,6071,"""Thompson ignores a second important distinction . In the violinist illustration , the woman might be justified withholding life-giving treatment from the musician under these circumstances . Abortion , though , is not merely withholding treatment . It is actively taking another human being 's life through poisoning or dismemberment . A more accurate parallel with abortion would be to crush the violinist or cut him into pieces before unplugging him .""","""Here they are just quibbling over the method of abortion . One would think they would have the same objection no matter the method , so this is irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion , though , is not merely withholding treatment poisoning or dismemberment crush the violinist cut him into pieces unplugging him""","""Here they are just quibbling over the method of abortion""",,
22865,6073,"""What in your mind is the difference between civil unions and marriage ? I read where several people , VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions . If it is just the name then should n't we just change the name of all marriage licenses to civil unions ? It is a lot like saying you like lemon juice but hate lemon squeezeings .""","""You are right . Also , if the name was n't important to those like VOR , they would have no problem with gay people using that name of `` marriage `` . They know the name marriage carries with it a certain social significance and recognition that civil unions do not . That 's why they want gay people to use only the lesser term . They do n't want gay people and being gay , to have an equal level of recognition in this society .""",AGREE,"""What in your mind is the difference between civil unions and marriage ?""","""if the name was n't , they would have no problem with gay people using that name of `` marriage a They do n't want gay people to have an equal level of recognition in this society .""",,
22871,6073,"""What in your mind is the difference between civil unions and marriage ? I read where several people , VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions . If it is just the name then should n't we just change the name of all marriage licenses to civil unions ? It is a lot like saying you like lemon juice but hate lemon squeezeings .""","""You are right . Also , if the name was n't important to those like VOR , they would have no problem with gay people using that name of `` marriage `` . They know the name marriage carries with it a certain social significance and recognition that civil unions do not . That 's why they want gay people to use only the lesser term . They do n't want gay people and being gay , to have an equal level of recognition in this society .""",AGREE,"""I read where several people , VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions .""","""You are right .""",,
22866,6073,"""What in your mind is the difference between civil unions and marriage ? I read where several people , VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions . If it is just the name then should n't we just change the name of all marriage licenses to civil unions ? It is a lot like saying you like lemon juice but hate lemon squeezeings .""","""You are right . Also , if the name was n't important to those like VOR , they would have no problem with gay people using that name of `` marriage `` . They know the name marriage carries with it a certain social significance and recognition that civil unions do not . That 's why they want gay people to use only the lesser term . They do n't want gay people and being gay , to have an equal level of recognition in this society .""",AGREE,"""VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions .""","""if the name was n't important problem with gay people""",,
22873,6073,"""What in your mind is the difference between civil unions and marriage ? I read where several people , VOR being one of them , are opposed to gay marriage but support civil unions . If it is just the name then should n't we just change the name of all marriage licenses to civil unions ? It is a lot like saying you like lemon juice but hate lemon squeezeings .""","""You are right . Also , if the name was n't important to those like VOR , they would have no problem with gay people using that name of `` marriage `` . They know the name marriage carries with it a certain social significance and recognition that civil unions do not . That 's why they want gay people to use only the lesser term . They do n't want gay people and being gay , to have an equal level of recognition in this society .""",AGREE,"""opposed to gay marriage""","""You are right They do n't want gay people and being gay""",,
22878,6074,"""Yeah , it is a good first step though . While they should have allowed gays to get married , it is progress , but they will eventually find out that seperate but equal will not work .""","""Many who voted for this said as much . They 're hoping that in a few years gays will actually get full rights . We can only hope .""",AGREE,"""it is a good first step seperate but equal will not work""","""Many who voted for this said as much get full rights""",,
22877,6074,"""Yeah , it is a good first step though . While they should have allowed gays to get married , it is progress , but they will eventually find out that seperate but equal will not work .""","""Many who voted for this said as much . They 're hoping that in a few years gays will actually get full rights . We can only hope .""",AGREE,"""it is a good first step though it is progress , but they will eventually find out""","""Many who voted for this said as much a few years gays will actually get full rights""",,
22889,6075,"""Dear Chloe , Do you really want women tried for murder because they decide to take a pill that will cause an abortion ? That is the only logical position a court can take once a zygote , embryo and fetus are legislated into the status of Human Beings . If one kills a human being , one is guilty of murder .""","""yes , that would be correct .""",AGREE,"""Dear Chloe , Do you really want women tried for murder because they decide to take a pill that will cause an abortion ?""","""yes , that would be correct .""",,
22920,6096,"""You simply must understand they do not see reason or they would be on our side . There are only 2 kinds of people who hate guns . 1 ) Liberty and Freedom haters who want the government to control every part of their lives . 2 ) Criminals set on harming the innocent and defenceless .""","""How can you tell the difference ?""",DISAGREE,"""simply must understand There are only 2 kinds of people""","""How can you tell the difference ?""",,
22919,6096,"""You simply must understand they do not see reason or they would be on our side . There are only 2 kinds of people who hate guns . 1 ) Liberty and Freedom haters who want the government to control every part of their lives . 2 ) Criminals set on harming the innocent and defenceless .""","""How can you tell the difference ?""",DISAGREE,"""only 2 kinds of people who hate guns .""","""How can you tell the difference ?""",,
22936,6099,"""Yes , socialist . Check the definition . I do n't watch Fox . Is that the best you can do ?""","""If you mean by this that we ’ re left shifted relative to the American spectrum then yes we are , and thank God for that ! However we ’ re not a socialist country . We have a pseudo socialist government in at the moment , but they aren ’ t enforcing any true socialist policies . Blair realised that the only way to get re-elected repeatedly is to stay middle of the road ...""",DISAGREE,"""Check the definition I do n't watch Fox .""","""we ’ re not a socialist country Blair realised that the only way to get re-elected""",,
22940,6099,"""Yes , socialist . Check the definition . I do n't watch Fox . Is that the best you can do ?""","""If you mean by this that we ’ re left shifted relative to the American spectrum then yes we are , and thank God for that ! However we ’ re not a socialist country . We have a pseudo socialist government in at the moment , but they aren ’ t enforcing any true socialist policies . Blair realised that the only way to get re-elected repeatedly is to stay middle of the road ...""",DISAGREE,"""socialist""","""socialist socialist government true""",,
22950,6100,"""Finish the other threads in which you 're being crushed before moving onto another .""","""Collin , that 's precisely why he 's moving to another one ...""",AGREE,"""Finish the other threads before moving onto another .""","""that 's precisely why he 's moving to another one""",,
22943,6100,"""Finish the other threads in which you 're being crushed before moving onto another .""","""Collin , that 's precisely why he 's moving to another one ...""",AGREE,"""Finish the other threads in which you 're being crushed before moving onto another .""","""'s precisely why he 's moving to another one ...""",,
22966,6102,"""At what cost ? How many civil rights are you willing to give up in the name of a few less murders each year ? Are you perfectly willing to be stopped by the police on a block-by-block basis and forced to show identification and traveling papers , all the while the officers on location are pointing their guns right at your head , ready to blow you away at the first sign of a twitch or if you display even a hint of hesitation to comply ? How desperately do you crave a police state ? How much do you favor a nationwide curfew where violators can be arrested by the police and held without legal counsel for an indefinite period of time ? Do you favor the use of physical and mental torture to force convictions even from the innocent ?""","""Are you refering to Japan or some hypothetical police state ?""",DISAGREE,"""many civil rights are you willing to give up in the name of a few less murders each year ? willing to be stopped by the police on a block-by-block basis , the officers on location are pointing their guns right at your head How desperately do you crave a police state ?""","""Are you refering to Japan or some hypothetical police state ?""",,
22969,6102,"""At what cost ? How many civil rights are you willing to give up in the name of a few less murders each year ? Are you perfectly willing to be stopped by the police on a block-by-block basis and forced to show identification and traveling papers , all the while the officers on location are pointing their guns right at your head , ready to blow you away at the first sign of a twitch or if you display even a hint of hesitation to comply ? How desperately do you crave a police state ? How much do you favor a nationwide curfew where violators can be arrested by the police and held without legal counsel for an indefinite period of time ? Do you favor the use of physical and mental torture to force convictions even from the innocent ?""","""Are you refering to Japan or some hypothetical police state ?""",DISAGREE,"""At what cost ?""","""you refering to Japan or some hypothetical police state ?""",,
22970,6103,"""if the laws of logic are human constructs then how can they be absolute since humans think differently and often contradictorily .""","""That the thinking of some men is flawed does not mean the constructs of others is in error .""",DISAGREE,"""of logic humans think""","""some men is is in error""",,
22981,6104,"""Yet , consistently , when asked to justify your position , you , and others , have seen fit to use locker rooms as justification . If all these bad analogies are not justification , then what is your justifcation ? Please tell us ,""","""First , there is no `` us `` on your part regarding this . I am talking to you . Others here that argue your same positions have been much less beligerent , so as far as I 'm concerned your attitude sets you apart . Second , I was n't trying to give you justification , nor am I obligated to . You should be giving justification for wanting to redefine marriage as an institution which you have n't done . But I do n't owe you any justification . Take your silly games up with Mana'ia ; they wo n't work with me .""",DISAGREE,"""justify your position , have seen fit to use locker rooms as justification .""","""You should be giving justification for wanting to redefine marriage Take your silly games""",,
22985,6104,"""Yet , consistently , when asked to justify your position , you , and others , have seen fit to use locker rooms as justification . If all these bad analogies are not justification , then what is your justifcation ? Please tell us ,""","""First , there is no `` us `` on your part regarding this . I am talking to you . Others here that argue your same positions have been much less beligerent , so as far as I 'm concerned your attitude sets you apart . Second , I was n't trying to give you justification , nor am I obligated to . You should be giving justification for wanting to redefine marriage as an institution which you have n't done . But I do n't owe you any justification . Take your silly games up with Mana'ia ; they wo n't work with me .""",DISAGREE,"""If all these bad analogies are not justification , then what is your justifcation ?""","""Take your silly games up with Mana'ia ; they wo n't work with me .""",,
22988,6105,"""Maybe you are having trouble with the concept of `` low premium , high deductible `` .""","""Actually , no I 'm not having trouble with that concept . That could be a wise choice in certain situations . I 'm having trouble with GWB making that choice FOR EVERYONE .""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe you are having trouble with the concept of `` low premium , high deductible ``""","""no I 'm not having trouble with that concept I 'm having trouble with GWB making that choice FOR EVERYONE""",,
22999,6106,"""Although i personally oppose abortion , i agree that two wrongs dont make it right .""","""How do you know killing a murderer is wrong ?""",DISAGREE,"""oppose abortion , agree two wrongs dont make right""","""How know killing murderer wrong""",,
23003,6107,"""The areas of America where divorce rates are highest are also frequently the areas where many conservative Christians live . Kentucky , Mississippi and Arkansas voted overwhelmingly for constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage . But they had three of the highest divorce rates in 2003 , based on figures from the Census Bureau and the National Center for Health Statistics . http : //www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunh ... d/10179154.htm""","""You know , I heard that from my mom last week . My parents moved to Arkansas when my dad retired a few years back . Mom thought it was amusing and disgusting that the state she moved to would have voted in such an alarming manor yet takes no measure to secure the marriages they already have . Ironic indeed .""",AGREE,"""The areas of America where divorce rates are highest are also frequently the areas where many conservative Christians live . , Arkansas voted overwhelmingly for constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage But they had three of the highest divorce rates in 2003""","""Mom thought it was amusing and disgusting that the state she moved to would have voted in such an alarming manor yet takes no measure to secure the marriages they already have .""",,
23013,6109,"""Mike Moore of Muskegon Michigan is alive and well because he used a firearm in self-defense . Mike Moore of Flint Michigan is a famous anti-gunner .""","""i knew this is where this was going . see bowling for columbine . thats where billsco probably got the unfounded idea that moore is anti-gun""",DISAGREE,"""Mike Moore of Muskegon Michigan is alive because he used a firearm in self-defense Mike Moore of Flint Michigan is a famous anti-gunner .""","""see bowling for columbine thats where billsco probably got the unfounded idea that moore is anti-gun""",,
23028,6111,"""So with that , it ’ s also pretty easy to imagine that there was no NEED for the human genome to mutate to accommodate a fruitless/vitaminC-less diet . Likewise , we also know that primates also consume a diet high in fruits , leaves and berries , thereby getting plenty of vitamin C. So like humans , primates would have no reason for their genomes to mutate if they ate fruits and leaves high in vitamin C from the beginning .""","""Well yes , but thats not what DEFECTIVE GULO indicates . If one has external sources of vitamin C , GULO can mutate to be inactive without causing a problem , and once inactive the inactive gene can be inherited without causing problems so long as vitamin C intake is high enough . An inactive GULO indicates that the species has external sources of vitamin C which is essential to many metabolic processes .""",DISAGREE,"""So with that , it ’ s also pretty easy to imagine that there was no NEED for the human genome to mutate to accommodate a fruitless/vitaminC-less diet .""","""Well yes , but thats not what DEFECTIVE GULO indicates .""",,
23053,6119,"""# 1 See the post titled `` Biblical Failures `` in the Religion section of this forum . If the Bible has a single inaccuracy in it , then it can not be considered 100 % true . This post shows inaccuracies so the Bible can not be considered a reliable source for things that can not be proven and that includes trying to say whether an unborn baby has a soul . Besides , why should you be able to force your beliefs on everyone else ? Perhaps you could justify a law that says all Christians can not have abortions .""","""Whether or not there are innaccuracies in the Bible is hottly debated , but it is not really the point I was trying to make . I was simply attempting to point out the different viewpoints , not debate on the validity of the Bible . Please read , take a deep breath , and think before you reply from simple emotion .""",DISAGREE,"""If the Bible has a single inaccuracy in it , then it can not be considered 100 % true""","""Please read , take a deep breath , and think before you reply from simple emotion .""",,
23052,6119,"""# 1 See the post titled `` Biblical Failures `` in the Religion section of this forum . If the Bible has a single inaccuracy in it , then it can not be considered 100 % true . This post shows inaccuracies so the Bible can not be considered a reliable source for things that can not be proven and that includes trying to say whether an unborn baby has a soul . Besides , why should you be able to force your beliefs on everyone else ? Perhaps you could justify a law that says all Christians can not have abortions .""","""Whether or not there are innaccuracies in the Bible is hottly debated , but it is not really the point I was trying to make . I was simply attempting to point out the different viewpoints , not debate on the validity of the Bible . Please read , take a deep breath , and think before you reply from simple emotion .""",DISAGREE,"""Besides , why should you be able to force your beliefs on everyone else ?""","""Please read , take a deep breath , and think before you reply from simple emotion .""",,
23072,6122,"""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. `` Where ID falls flat on its face . Stop trying to dress that up as some kind of underserved mugging ; if you are n't prepared to understand and defend ID on a scientific level you are n't equipped to decide that it is being unfairly treated .""","""So if I can ’ t overcome the huge special interest that condemns ID , I ’ m not equipped to ask questions about the scientific validity of global warming or other questionable  “ sciences “ ? Not much on free speech , are you ?""",DISAGREE,"""No , in other words `` the cut and thrust of peer review. `` Where ID falls flat on its face""","""So if I can ’ t overcome the huge special interest that condemns ID , I ’ m not equipped to ask questions about the scientific validity of global warming or other questionable  sciences ?""",,
23090,6125,"""PENNSYLVANIA CONSTITUTION Section 21 . Right to Bear Arms The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned . I do n't see the word `` qualified `` in there .""","""Agreed . Try telling that to congress .""",AGREE,"""Right to Bear Arms The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned .""","""Agreed . Try telling that to congress .""",,
23099,6140,"""Not all of them .""","""Not ALL of them ? ! ! ! Come on , Simone , it 's doctors like Tiller that slaughter thousands , not their typical adversary .""",DISAGREE,"""Not all""","""Not ALL of them ? ! ! !""",,
23093,6140,"""Not all of them .""","""Not ALL of them ? ! ! ! Come on , Simone , it 's doctors like Tiller that slaughter thousands , not their typical adversary .""",DISAGREE,"""Not all of them .""","""Come on , Simone , it 's doctors like Tiller that slaughter thousands""",,
23117,6142,"""1 ) What good does it do to `` disregard the bible `` when there are Christians wanting to enforce the laws of the Bible on gays regardless of whether or not we `` regard `` it ? ? ?""","""because the question of whether or not a gay act is a sin is purely religious , and has nothing to do with law . read carefully what i posted""",DISAGREE,"""wanting to enforce the laws""","""nothing to do with law .""",,
23187,6154,"""They know it 's wrong , and the feeling of guilt which almost never leaves them is an emotional ball and chain they need to carry around for years and sometimes the rest of their life .""","""Someone who does n't agree with abortion might feel this , but you need to back it up otherwise . We have no problem with ending billions of lives over the course of our lives , if we do n't think that they matter ( cooking and even having food , having an immune system , disinfectants etc ) . If you do n't recognise the organism as something worth worrying about , why would you ? I say that its more likely that its more an embarrasment for most people than a feeling that they have killed someone ( though to be fair , I ca n't back that up ) .""",DISAGREE,"""They know it 's wrong , and the feeling of guilt which almost never leaves them is an emotional ball and chain""","""Someone who does n't agree with abortion might feel this , but you need to back it up otherwise .""",,
23192,6155,"""I 'm not talking about evolving viruses , I 'm talking about evolving SPECIES .""","""Well , ok. You 're wrong because evolving viruses are examples of evolution , as are bacteria and the new strains that have become resistant to antibiotics . But if you want some examples I 'll give three . I certainly hope that you have the courtesy to read them and actually think about them .""",DISAGREE,"""evolving viruses , talking about evolving SPECIES""","""evolving viruses are examples of evolution , bacteria and the new strains courtesy to read them""",,
23198,6155,"""I 'm not talking about evolving viruses , I 'm talking about evolving SPECIES .""","""Well , ok. You 're wrong because evolving viruses are examples of evolution , as are bacteria and the new strains that have become resistant to antibiotics . But if you want some examples I 'll give three . I certainly hope that you have the courtesy to read them and actually think about them .""",DISAGREE,"""not talking about evolving viruses""","""You 're wrong because evolving viruses are examples of evolution""",,
23235,6159,"""So are pro-gun activists not so different than gay rights activists ?""","""There 's no mention of gays in the constitution .""",DISAGREE,"""So are pro-gun activists not so different than gay rights activists ?""","""There 's no mention of gays in the constitution .""",,
23267,6165,"""None of the 'fishersci ' links would take , but I did get a look at the fibre optic systems . Will try again later .""","""They did n't take ? That 's weird cuz they work for me just fine . Maybe if you copy them and paste them directly into google and click enter , you 'll get to them because they are good links . Give it a shot and good luck .""",AGREE,"""None of the 'fishersci ' links would take""","""They did n't take ?""",,
23271,6166,"""Yes , panic attacks are sparking many very long winded rants .""","""So any long publication must be due to a panic attack ? It takes a few minutes to read those posts , but it takes an hour and a half to watch Expelled ; does that mean that IDers are having the mother of all panic attacks ? Your logic ca n't even be described as `` tortured , `` marc , because it 's completely nonexistent .""",DISAGREE,"""panic attacks are sparking many very long winded rants .""","""So any long publication must be due to a panic attack ?""",,
23297,6190,"""Donna Santa Marie was a 16-year-old girl who was forced by her parents and abortionist to have an abortion against her will . Her father even punched her in the stomach to try to induce a miscarriage . The abortionist had to be called in to perform an abortion without her consent . Despite these horrific facts , New Jersey Federal Courts have ruled that Donna Santa Marie can not sue the doctor , the abortionist , because the infant was not born alive and have cited Roe v. Wade as justification . If Roe v. Wade is supposed to be based on a woman 's choice , how can she be forced to have an abortion and have no remedy under the law .""","""I think you guys are missing out on the fact that the Judge ruled that there was not injury done to Donna Santa Marie . So much for the arguement that the unborn human is part of the mother . What a disgusting and unfortunate case . It was n't born alive , so it does n't matter . What unsettles me the most is that some of you do n't seem to care . You sound more worried about the possible blow to abortion than the women who have been hurt .""",DISAGREE,"""abortion without her consent New Jersey Federal Courts have ruled that Donna Santa Marie can not sue the doctor , the abortionist the infant was not born alive Roe v. Wade""","""the Judge ruled that there was not injury done to Donna Santa Marie the unborn human is part of the mother It was n't born alive , so it does n't matter . You sound more worried about the possible blow to abortion than the women who have been hurt .""",,
23300,6191,"""also they did n't seem to mind that the abortion rate which was declining under clinton has been raising under Bush ... maybe they 're not that bothered .""","""For what it 's worth , I certainly AM bothered by this if it 's true . I 'd like to see the source where you got that information about the abortion rate climbing under Bush 's presidency , if you would . Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""",DISAGREE,"""abortion rate which was declining under clinton has been raising under Bush .""","""course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""",,
23304,6191,"""also they did n't seem to mind that the abortion rate which was declining under clinton has been raising under Bush ... maybe they 're not that bothered .""","""For what it 's worth , I certainly AM bothered by this if it 's true . I 'd like to see the source where you got that information about the abortion rate climbing under Bush 's presidency , if you would . Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""",DISAGREE,"""they did n't seem to mind that the abortion rate which was declining under clinton has been raising under Bush""","""I 'd like to see the source where you got that information about the abortion rate climbing under Bush 's presidency""",,
23308,6191,"""also they did n't seem to mind that the abortion rate which was declining under clinton has been raising under Bush ... maybe they 're not that bothered .""","""For what it 's worth , I certainly AM bothered by this if it 's true . I 'd like to see the source where you got that information about the abortion rate climbing under Bush 's presidency , if you would . Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""",DISAGREE,"""n't was .""","""the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""",,
23311,6192,"""Is that not agnostic ? You leave yourself open to change if evidence dictates it . Sorry if this is just turning into word games .""","""Not answering for trebor - this is my two-penn'orth . If you 're going to describe anyone 'open to evidence ' as agnostic , then this is a word game : there 'd be by definition no ( reasoning ) atheists in the world . The ( negative ) atheist position is that in the complete absence of evidence to believe that a proposed entity exists , withholding belief is the default position - as with sinjin 's leprechauns . To call that agnosticism has always struck ne as mealy-mouthed : I 'd rather come right out and declare myself an atheist ( the negative or 'weak ' variety , like Big Bear Scot ) .""",DISAGREE,"""agnostic open to change if evidence dictates it word games""","""If you 're going to describe anyone 'open to evidence ' as agnostic , then this is a word game To call that agnosticism has always struck ne as mealy-mouthed""",,
23321,6193,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",AGREE,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",,
23324,6193,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",AGREE,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",,
23326,6193,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",AGREE,"""average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human""",,
23323,6193,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",AGREE,"""The average human being has about 50-100 mutations""","""Almost every human today is living fine with 50-100 mutations .""",,
23338,6194,"""Exactamundo , finally the ignoramus gets something right .""","""Which makes your view of God exponentially disturbing . If man kills it 's wrong . If God exterminates millions , it 's morally just .""",DISAGREE,"""finally the ignoramus gets something right .""","""Which makes your view of God exponentially disturbing .""",,
23337,6194,"""Exactamundo , finally the ignoramus gets something right .""","""Which makes your view of God exponentially disturbing . If man kills it 's wrong . If God exterminates millions , it 's morally just .""",DISAGREE,"""finally the ignoramus gets something right .""","""Which makes your view of God exponentially disturbing . If man kills it 's wrong . If God exterminates millions , it 's morally just .""",,
23330,6194,"""Exactamundo , finally the ignoramus gets something right .""","""Which makes your view of God exponentially disturbing . If man kills it 's wrong . If God exterminates millions , it 's morally just .""",DISAGREE,"""ignoramus gets something right .""","""If God exterminates millions , it 's morally just .""",,
23343,6195,"""That 's how I think it works , so the ball in in your court now .""","""I 'm foolishly looking forward to this as if we 're going to see anything besides the standard baloney . How silly . ( Yes , I am still alive ; I 've just been incredibly busy and really hardly have the time even now to check in . )""",DISAGREE,"""That 's how I think it works , so the ball in in your court now .""","""I 'm foolishly looking forward to this as if we 're going to see anything besides the standard baloney .""",,
23356,6204,"""Professor Heribert Nilsson , an evolutionist , writes :""","""Ralph Waldo Emerson , who may or may not have been an evolutionist , writes : `` I hate quotations . Tell me what you know. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Professor Heribert Nilsson , an evolutionist , writes :""","""Ralph Waldo Emerson , who may or may not have been an evolutionist , writes : `` I hate quotations . Tell me what you know. ``""",,
23376,6207,"""( by the way , he is in no way an ID guy ... he is a hard-core evolutionist -- yet he admits that the modern synthesis is indeed a fairytale . )""","""Just like StuporSnort to fail to read the entire page . If you 'll direct your attention to the very first comment , you 'll see that crazy Sal is talking out of his XXX .""",DISAGREE,"""he is in no way an ID guy ... he is a hard-core evolutionist -- yet he admits that the modern synthesis is indeed a fairytale""","""If you 'll direct your attention to the very first comment , you 'll see that crazy Sal is talking out of his XXX .""",,
23386,6209,"""I 'd worry more about another ice age than a melting of the current ice box . We 're going to cause clouds of pollutants to screen out the sun 's warming rays , allowing the earth 's temperature to plummet . Glaciers will form all the way down to the Florida panhandle . When we begin to recover and develop new cities , we will be blessed in that there will be no more mosquitoes .""","""Would these be the same clouds that block out UV rays or do we still have to worry about ozone depletion , too ? Sorry , I let my subscription to the Journal of Chicken Little expire a while back .""",DISAGREE,"""worry more about another ice age than a melting of the current ice box clouds of pollutants screen out the sun 's warming rays earth 's temperature to plummet no more mosquitoes""","""Would these be same clouds that block out UV rays ozone depletion Sorry""",,
23403,6213,"""http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/ma ... 27tools-t.html In other words , a lot of these kids never grow up . And then they get guns . And , did I mention the hormone was testosterone ?""","""Gee our reasoning challenged one has shown up . Let me see we have a NY slimes article on the problems liberals have caused in children . Then we leap to they never grow up . And then the leap to they get guns . Wonder what study or studies back that up ? From there we go into male hatred mode via hormones . Of course these are all white kids too eh ? Not to mention being of the Republican persuation no doubt .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/ma ... 27tools-t.html a lot of these kids never grow up And then they get guns And , did I mention the hormone was testosterone ?""","""Let me see we have a NY slimes article on the problems liberals have caused in children . Then we leap to they never grow up And then the leap to they get guns From there we go into male hatred mode via hormones .""",,
23405,6213,"""http : //www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/ma ... 27tools-t.html In other words , a lot of these kids never grow up . And then they get guns . And , did I mention the hormone was testosterone ?""","""Gee our reasoning challenged one has shown up . Let me see we have a NY slimes article on the problems liberals have caused in children . Then we leap to they never grow up . And then the leap to they get guns . Wonder what study or studies back that up ? From there we go into male hatred mode via hormones . Of course these are all white kids too eh ? Not to mention being of the Republican persuation no doubt .""",DISAGREE,""" a lot of these kids never grow up . And then they get guns . And , did I mention the hormone was testosterone ?""","""Then we leap to they never grow up . And then the leap to they get guns . Wonder what study or studies back that up ? From there we go into male hatred mode via hormones .""",,
23409,6214,"""Life at any cost . Unless you 've been there , you do n't understand . It 's easy to say , in good health , just how you do or do not want to live . But until you are in that situation , you truly do not have a clue as to how you really feel .""","""I agree that the will to survive is an amazing phenomenon when put to the test . But I do not agree with your statement of life at * any * cost . There will always be a time when the humane/loving thing to do is to let an infant/child/adult go .""",AGREE,"""Life at any cost Unless you 've been there , you do n't understand until you are in that situation , you truly do not have a clue as to how you really feel""","""I do not agree with your statement of life at * any * cost There will always be a time when the humane/loving thing to do is to let an go""",,
23425,6232,"""You are going to have to explain what happenstance origins are , becase as said earlier , I could n't find any definition from any of the dictionaries I searched , and all I get from google is a theology forum and a 101 contradictions to the bible . Neither is a very credible source .""","""From my first post , starting with the quote from the religioustolerance website ;""",AGREE,"""You are going to have to explain what happenstance origins are , becase as said earlier , I could n't find any definition from any of the dictionaries I searched ,""","""From my first post , starting with the quote from the religioustolerance website ;""",,
23433,6233,"""In discussing evolution I discovered a great many different types of science - depending upon one 's up-bringing .""","""That 's probably true . Creationists believe that theories are ad hoc stories . Creationist have been raised to know the answers before they have asked the questions . Thus , any assertion that supports the `` theory `` is considered valid evidence , even though there is no evidence to support the assertion and even though plain logic and real science show the assertion to be nonsense .""",AGREE,"""In discussing evolution I discovered a great many different types of science - depending upon one 's up-bringing""","""That 's probably true . Creationists believe that theories are ad hoc stories .""",,
23450,6236,"""Here 's a good article on the whole thing . The Myth of the Great Flood Not only that , the pyramids were built during that time , which would mean if the flood really did happen like some have stated , the pyramids would have been built underwater ..""","""No ... you 're not entirely correct . You can be skeptical all you want , but the empirical evidence is overwhelming for a world wide flood , a global cataclysm ... as I stated earlier , you 're not even taken seriously even in the secualar world of `` science `` if you try to refute the flood record , the flood is solid and is not privy to question . Enoch built the first pyramids , and his were superior in quality to he knock-offs of later days . The flood has been dated to have occured about 4400 to 4600 B.C .""",DISAGREE,"""Here 's a good article on the whole thing . The Myth of the Great Flood Not only that , the pyramids were built during that time , which would mean if the flood really did happen like some have stated ,""","""No ... you 're not entirely correct . You can be skeptical all you want , but the empirical evidence is overwhelming for a world wide flood , a global cataclysm""",,
23453,6236,"""Here 's a good article on the whole thing . The Myth of the Great Flood Not only that , the pyramids were built during that time , which would mean if the flood really did happen like some have stated , the pyramids would have been built underwater ..""","""No ... you 're not entirely correct . You can be skeptical all you want , but the empirical evidence is overwhelming for a world wide flood , a global cataclysm ... as I stated earlier , you 're not even taken seriously even in the secualar world of `` science `` if you try to refute the flood record , the flood is solid and is not privy to question . Enoch built the first pyramids , and his were superior in quality to he knock-offs of later days . The flood has been dated to have occured about 4400 to 4600 B.C .""",DISAGREE,"""The Myth of the Great Flood Not only that , the pyramids were built during that time , which would mean if the flood really did happen like some have stated , the pyramids would have been built underwater ..""","""you 're not entirely correct . , the empirical evidence is overwhelming for a world wide flood , a global cataclysm `` Enoch built the first pyramids , and his were superior in quality to he knock-offs of later days . The flood has been dated to have occured about 4400 to 4600 B.C .""",,
23457,6237,"""The process to fossilize a bone is painfully slow . Non-fossilized tissue ca n't survive more than a few years , let alone long enough for any other part of the bone to become fossilzed ! It would decompose !""","""Actually , the process of fossilisation is not slow and can be done relatively quickly . All what you need is for sediments to quickly cover a dead ( or an alive body - as what would have happened to Noah 's Flood ) and hence , fossilsation can occur rapidly ; evolutionarly speaking , fossils take millions of years to fossilise a bone , but unless the bone is covered by sediments quickly , the bone will never fossilise .""",DISAGREE,"""process fossilize a bone painfully slow""","""Actually process of fossilisation is not slow can be done relatively quickly ( ) hence can occur rapidly evolutionarly speaking""",,
23463,6238,"""In your opinion . How do you know your interpretation is better ? Oh , right , it has to assume less to explain the facts .""","""NO ! There are facts present that can not possibly be true IF SS 's theory is correct ! That 's the point . OK , let 's go back to basic deductive logic : True statements can not have false consequences . In symbolic logic : If H then C not C Therefore : not H That is , we have hypothesis H. It has consequences C. If you find that C is either not there or that there are consequences contradictory to C , then H is false . Neandertals and humans are lumped in one `` kind `` by creationists . Elephants and mammoths are another `` kind `` . Now , if SS 's theory is true , neandertals will have the same DNA sequences as humans , because it is a matter what genes are turned on and when , not a change of genes . ( This is even more pronounced because creationists insist neandertals ARE members of H. sapiens ) . Same for mammoths and elephants . So now we look at DNA sequences . Are they the same ? NO ! Neandertals and H. sapiens differ by over 3 standard deviations from variation within H. sapiens populations . So , the consequences are wrong , therefore SS 's hypothesis is wrong . No assumptions involved . Only data .""",DISAGREE,"""it has to assume less to explain the facts .""","""NO ! No assumptions involved . Only data .""",,
23481,6242,"""Jesus was such a Great liar of the world !""","""Are you like a Chinese government official or something ? Oh wait . I forgot , the Chinese government controls what you say anyway , so I guess it matters not .""",DISAGREE,"""Jesus was such a Great liar of the world""","""Chinese government official or something ? what you say anyway""",,
23509,6247,"""no ! i believe the govt controls or wants to control us !""","""That 's the great thing about the 2nd amendment . It was designed to have the greatest impact after it is abolished .""",DISAGREE,"""i believe the govt controls or wants to control us !""","""That 's the great thing about the 2nd amendment .""",,
23512,6248,"""As for teleology , it is either a part of biology or it is not . You can not have your cake and eat it . You either abandon teleological terminology , and switch to mechanical terminology , or you admit that evolution is a teleological process .""","""And if I contrived a new language for us to have this discussion , in which it was impossible to express teleological concepts , would you then be forced to admit that evolution is not a teleological process ? Certainly you would not be able to say otherwise , but would your capitulation be merited ?""",DISAGREE,"""evolution is a teleological process .""","""evolution is not a teleological process""",,
23511,6248,"""As for teleology , it is either a part of biology or it is not . You can not have your cake and eat it . You either abandon teleological terminology , and switch to mechanical terminology , or you admit that evolution is a teleological process .""","""And if I contrived a new language for us to have this discussion , in which it was impossible to express teleological concepts , would you then be forced to admit that evolution is not a teleological process ? Certainly you would not be able to say otherwise , but would your capitulation be merited ?""",DISAGREE,"""As for teleology , it is either a part of biology or it is not . You can not have your cake and eat it .""","""Certainly you would not be able to say otherwise , but would your capitulation be merited ?""",,
23521,6250,"""Can a Deist be a Deist if they are also a soft or hard atheist ?""","""I think deism and atheism are incompatible . A true atheist would have no openness to the idea of a god of any sort . Agnosticism may be a different story .""",DISAGREE,"""Can a Deist be a Deist if they are also a soft or hard atheist ?""","""I think deism and atheism are incompatible . A true atheist would have no openness to the idea of a god of any sort .""",,
23525,6251,""" “ WT1 has been conserved throughout vertebrate evolution , although only mammals possess numerous protein isoforms. ” ( Nucleic Acids Research , 2003 , Vol . 31 , No . 11 2795-2802 , Faithful expression of a tagged Fugu WT1 protein from a genomic transgene in zebrafish : efficient splicing of pufferfish genes in zebrafish but not mice )""","""So it has gone from an indeterminate ( based on my quick searches ) number of fewer isoforms in lower vertebrates to the 24 found in mammals . That 's an increase in information .""",AGREE,"""WT1 has been conserved throughout vertebrate evolution , although only mammals possess numerous protein isoforms.Â""","""fewer isoforms in lower vertebrates to the 24 found in mammals . That 's an increase in information .""",,
23545,6255,"""Organs , a nervious system , a brain , all these are the things that make us human . Those things are not developed until 7-10 weeks after conception though ( depending on your source ) . Many like to show proof that they start to develope earlier but again , unless something is completed and is operating then it can not be regarded as developed . Based on that information I would have to say that abortion should be legal until 7-10 weeks after conception . Once that time period has passed and the fetus has a functional nervious system and brain then abortion should only be reserved for the rare cases that the mothers life is in danger .""","""I am curious about your position . Why have you chosen the nervous system and brain and organs as the cutoff points for the humanmeter ? Have you done so arbitrarily ? Does this mean that if these are not as you said `` completed and operating ( developed ) `` then we are not human ? If this were true there would be alot of handicapped people who are not human . Christopher Reeve and all the other quadrapalegic and parapalegics like him would be in trouble . What IQ determines a fully developed brain ?""",DISAGREE,"""a nervious system , a brain , all these are the things that make us human""","""What IQ determines a fully developed brain ?""",,
23578,6275,"""Then who would create this very very clever being ? In that case there has to be someone even more clever . Or maybe it really was god that envolved from the apes .""","""I think you need to answer the same question I asked the other guy , who is God ?""",DISAGREE,"""maybe it really was god that envolved""","""I think you need to answer who is God ?""",,
23604,6280,"""Wait a minute . You say that any physical attack is wrong , but in the sentence after you say you do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it . Are you for real ?""","""Yes , I 'd say I do exist ( to answer your question ) . Furthermore , I do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it .... he is the one thinking we are `` at war `` and he states that he is willing to do the same things . I assume he finds this behavior during `` a war `` to be fairly standard and if the opposite situation had happened he would be all for it .""",DISAGREE,"""any physical attack is wrong , but in the sentence after you say you do n't see why Matthew S has a problem""","""I do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it .... he is the one thinking we are `` at war `` and he states that he is willing to do the same things""",,
23600,6280,"""Wait a minute . You say that any physical attack is wrong , but in the sentence after you say you do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it . Are you for real ?""","""Yes , I 'd say I do exist ( to answer your question ) . Furthermore , I do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it .... he is the one thinking we are `` at war `` and he states that he is willing to do the same things . I assume he finds this behavior during `` a war `` to be fairly standard and if the opposite situation had happened he would be all for it .""",DISAGREE,"""any physical attack is wrong , you do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it""","""do n't see why Matthew S has a problem with it he is the one thinking we are `` at war ``""",,
23617,6281,"""So , what all of sudden made these primates change into a weaker species no doubt ?""","""Once again , you prove Pandion 's asseration correct . Weaker species ? Who said anything about that ? Some species evolved to meet new niches , acquire more food , safer habitats . Hardly weaker . As for suddenly , you basically admit you are ignorant about evolution and sciences , which was Pandion 's basic asseration . They did not change suddenly , but over time .""",DISAGREE,"""what all of sudden made these primates change into a weaker species no doubt ?""","""Some species evolved to meet new niches , acquire more food , safer habitats . Hardly weaker .""",,
23611,6281,"""So , what all of sudden made these primates change into a weaker species no doubt ?""","""Once again , you prove Pandion 's asseration correct . Weaker species ? Who said anything about that ? Some species evolved to meet new niches , acquire more food , safer habitats . Hardly weaker . As for suddenly , you basically admit you are ignorant about evolution and sciences , which was Pandion 's basic asseration . They did not change suddenly , but over time .""",DISAGREE,"""So , what all of sudden made these primates change into a weaker species no doubt ?""","""As for suddenly , you basically admit you are ignorant about evolution and sciences , which was Pandion 's basic asseration . They did not change suddenly , but over time .""",,
23621,6282,"""During closing arguments on Friday morning , Mr. Roeder sat silent and expressionless as prosecutors portrayed the shooting of Dr. Tiller at his church on May 31 as not just premeditated murder but as  “ a planned assassination ” that had been proven  “ not only beyond a reasonable doubt but beyond any doubt. ”  “ He claims justification ,  ” Kim Parker , a prosecutor said , calling on jurors here to uphold the law , not Mr. Roeder ’ s views of abortion , which , she said , he had proudly trumpeted on the witness stand .  “ These are not the acts of a justified man . These acts are cowardly. ” .... Yes , he bought a gun . Yes , he took target practice . Yes , he had learned about Dr. Tiller ’ s habits , his home address , his security precautions . And , yes , he shot Dr. Tiller last May 31 as Dr. Tiller stood inside his church .  “ That is correct , yes ,  ” Mr. Roeder told the jurors , in a calm .""","""Jury Reaches Guilty Verdict in Murder of Abortion Doctor - NYTimes.com We , and the law , must stand firm against terrorists like Scott Roeder .""",AGREE,"""During closing arguments on Friday morning , Mr. Roeder sat silent and expressionless as prosecutors portrayed the shooting of Dr. Tiller at his church on May 31 as not just premeditated murder but as  a planned assassination that had been proven  not only beyond a reasonable doubt but beyond any doubt.  He claims justification ,  Kim Parker , a prosecutor said , calling on jurors here to uphold the law , not Mr. Roeder ’ s views of abortion , which , she said , he had proudly trumpeted on the witness stand .  These are not the acts of a justified man . These acts are cowardly. .... Yes , he bought a gun . Yes , he took target practice . Yes , he had learned about Dr. Tiller ’ s habits , his home address , his security precautions . And , yes , he shot Dr. Tiller last May 31 as Dr. Tiller stood inside his church .  That is correct , yes ,  Mr. Roeder told the jurors , in a calm .""","""Jury Reaches Guilty Verdict in Murder of Abortion Doctor - NYTimes.com We , and the law , must stand firm against terrorists like Scott Roeder .""",,
23639,6283,"""Several attempts have been made to redo the original experiment , with different chemical compounds ( as later research revealed more data on early Earth atmospheric conditions ) with no results .""","""Actually , the Miller-Urey experiment is basically so simple that with only a little training in the lab you could do it yourself . Please show that you are not a dupe and specify what you mean by `` organic matter `` . The experiment was intended to show that in a reducing atmosphere with a source of energy , amino acids can form spontaneously . Several similar experiments have been done since that have shown that the formation of amino acids is almost certain . For example , they have been found in meteors . But that was a long time ago . More recent work has demonstrated the spontaneous formation of lipid membranes , reproducing molecules . The information is available to anyone who takes the time to educate himself .""",DISAGREE,"""Several attempts have been made to redo the original experiment , with different chemical compounds""","""the Miller-Urey experiment is basically so simple that with only a little training in the lab you could do it yourself .""",,
23645,6284,"""The popultion [ sic ] has been told for decades that they are simply a culmination of their genes .""","""I 'm not sure what the means . I think that you have been listening to the creationist version of evolutionary biology . As an evolutionary biologist I 've never heard anything like that .""",DISAGREE,"""The popultion [ sic ] has been told for decades that they are simply a culmination of their genes .""","""I 'm not sure what the means . I think that you have been listening to the creationist version of evolutionary biology .""",,
23665,6286,"""Do you prefer actually having to make personal moral choices or do you need a rigid and inviolable instruction manual to run your life ?""","""Things are better built following the instructions then going off of your own personal choices . I suppose you build your IKEA furniture based on intuition""",DISAGREE,"""Do you prefer actually having to make personal moral choices or do you need a rigid and inviolable instruction manual to run your life ?""","""Things are better built following the instructions then going off of your own personal choices .""",,
23713,6291,"""Lets see ... Christianity : a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination Now tell me , how can one say they are a Christian if they do n't follow his Word ? You can call yourself a Christian all you want ... but Christianity defines something , and it is n't someone that does n't believe in the Bible .""","""So St Peter was n't a Christian as he did n't have the Bible ? You are assuming that the Bible is the word of Christ/God . It is obvious from your definition that a Christian can believe Jesus is Christ and belong to a non-literalist Church Incidentally , I 've always thought capitalising Word for the Bible is an example of bibliolatry , associating it too closely with Jesus as the Word ( logos ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Lets see ... Christianity : a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination Now tell me , how can one say they are a Christian if they do n't follow his Word ? You can call yourself a Christian all you want ... but Christianity defines something , and it is n't someone that does n't believe in the Bible .""","""So St Peter was n't a Christian as he did n't have the Bible ? You are assuming that the Bible is the word of Christ/God . It is obvious from your definition that a Christian can believe Jesus is Christ and belong to a non-literalist Church Incidentally , I 've always thought capitalising Word for the Bible is an example of bibliolatry , associating it too closely with Jesus as the Word ( logos ) .""",,
23721,6292,"""I am not asking for the church or any religion to endorse , for lack of a better word , a gay marriage . What I am asking for is civil rights . The same rights any other couple receive under the law . Religion has nothing to do with it . As far as understanding , it really is not difficult . I am not heterosexual , however I understand and accept heterosexuality . If those who oppose or do n't understand could accept that fact the homosexuality is something one is born with and not something that one chooses , maybe it would make more sense to them . Me trying to explain to you why I am homosexual would be like you trying to explain to me why you are heterosexual . Homosexuals no more chose to be homosexual any more than an african american chose the color or their skin . Just look at your own life , your own desires , your own sexuality as it developed and evolved throughout your life . There is no difference other than mine are not towards the opposite sex , but otherwise exactly the same .""","""Welcome to 4forums .""",DISAGREE,"""do n't understand could accept that fact the homosexuality is something one is born""","""Welcome to 4forums .""",,
23752,6296,"""The reality is this thinking does n't exist because Darwinists are fools .... fools whos thinking has been altered by evil . They ca n't focus on reality so they make up wild , just-so stories .""","""I 'm curious , are you a creationist ( I have n't really read any of your posts on your personal beleifs , mainly I just see a bunch of insults toward ToE ) ? Because those types of insults are typical of creationists who are ignorant of the ToE . From what I DO know of you , you have quite the reputation over at IIDB , something to do with `` butterfly wombs `` which you claimed butterflies had .""",DISAGREE,"""The reality is this thinking does n't exist because Darwinists are fools .... fools whos thinking has been altered by evil .""","""I 'm curious , are you a creationist ( I have n't really read any of your posts on your personal beleifs , mainly I just see a bunch of insults toward ToE ) ?""",,
23760,6298,"""i 've no problems with gay couples marrying if they have kids straight couples can adopt as well""","""Please , so you actually advocate `` down-grading `` any union which does not raise children ? That 's simply insane ! Not to mention also highly unconstitutional .""",DISAGREE,"""no problems with gay couples marrying if they have kids straight couples can adopt as well""","""you actually advocate `` down-grading does not raise children ? simply insane ! highly unconstitutional""",,
23783,6309,"""I see no legal use handguns can fulfil""","""olympic sports are legal , and use handguns too .""",DISAGREE,"""I see no legal use handguns can fulfil""","""olympic sports are legal , and use handguns too .""",,
23787,6310,"""... This is the exact same mindset as the killer . He believed the doctor was deserving of death for his actions . The only difference is you have the shield of the law to hide behind . I imagine you would see his execution as justice . At the end of the day , the thinking is exactly the same .""","""But only one qualifies as due process . I 'm anti-death penalty btw .""",DISAGREE,"""The only difference is you have the shield of the law to hide behind . I imagine you would see his execution as justice .""","""But only one qualifies as due process . I 'm anti-death penalty btw .""",,
23790,6310,"""... This is the exact same mindset as the killer . He believed the doctor was deserving of death for his actions . The only difference is you have the shield of the law to hide behind . I imagine you would see his execution as justice . At the end of the day , the thinking is exactly the same .""","""But only one qualifies as due process . I 'm anti-death penalty btw .""",DISAGREE,"""He believed the doctor was deserving of death for his actions""","""I 'm anti-death penalty btw .""",,
23803,6312,"""[ Jesus said : ]  “ If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother , his wife and children , his brothers and sisters – yes , even his own life – he can not be my disciple. ” ( Luke 14:26 )""","""And for the other quote in Luke , in other translations , it says despise . Despise : To regard as unworthy of one 's interest or concern . And that has to be what Jesus meant because John 13:34 says , `` A new command I give you : Love one another . As I have loved you , so you must love one another. `` In other words , you have to love God more than you love your family . Here 's how the message translation puts it ( correctly ) : Luke 14:26 `` Anyone who comes to me but refuses to let go of father , mother , spouse , children , brothers , sisters - yes , even one 's own self ! - ca n't be my disciple. `` Mark 12:28 , `` One of the teachers of the Law came and heard them debating . Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer , he asked Him , 'Of all the commandments , which is the most important ? ' 'The most important one , ' answered Jesus , 'is this : hear , oh , Israel , the Lord our God , the Lord is One . Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength . The second is this : love your neighbor as yourself . There is no commandment greater than these . ' ''""",DISAGREE,"""If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother , his wife and children , his brothers and sisters – yes , even his own life – he can not be my""","""To regard as unworthy of one 's interest or concern . And that has to be what Jesus meant""",,
23819,6315,"""yet cancer cells are not a human being ... good fallacy though . A unique group of cells with a unique DNA would be a human being though ( assuming human DNA ) .... such as the embryo . You also have it backwards ... giving people the right to live is an american value .... taking away the want to kill someone is an american value .""","""Yet to the woman the fetus is nothing more then cancer . The fetus is in her body and still should remain HER choice . Until someone comes up with a way for a fetus to live outside the body , without help , then it is nothing more then cancer and a parasite on the womans body . How about a compromise on this issue MEN should not have a say or decision about abortion and we all leave any legal desions to women . Since this is a womans issue let them decide and males but out .""",DISAGREE,"""yet cancer cells are not a human being ... good fallacy though . A unique group of cells with a unique DNA would be a human being though ( assuming human DNA ) .... such as the""","""Yet to the woman the fetus is nothing more then cancer . The fetus is in her body and still should remain HER choice .""",,
23860,6320,"""Btw it 's a town of 2000 people .""","""Only 2,000 people ? Is that so ? How many have to die as a result of this bad policy before we get our dander up and start calling for changes ?""",AGREE,"""Btw it 's a town of 2000 people .""","""How many have to die as a result of this bad policy before we get our dander up and start calling for changes ?""",,
23876,6321,"""Euthanization is actually a word that we use in the scientific community .""","""Is that the part of the scientific community that quotes Dr. Seuss ? Maybe if you ever said something closely resembling science , that would approach being a believable statement . Chloe , being a receptionist in a vet 's office does n't really qualify .""",DISAGREE,"""Euthanization actually a word""","""Is that the part that quotes Seuss ? .""",,
23919,6326,"""That depends on the circumstances . Only she can know .""","""Exactly . Even though you do not view it as a good choice , it still is a choice , and elminating that choice means that you do not care for a woman . Trying to preserve a woman 's God given right to choose , while giving her other good choices means that you care about the woman A LOT . Discouraging woman from having an abortion ( but not criminalizing it ) , and offering them better or other choices means you care about the woman AND the fetus . Attempting to criminalize abortion means you dont give a XXXX about the woman , and not much about the fetus either .""",DISAGREE,"""Only she can know .""","""Exactly . Even though you do not view it as a good choice""",,
23923,6327,"""I think you fail to take into account that for most opposers of abortion , they genuinely feel they are trying to save lives by their opposition . In many cases it 's not a matter of trying control sexual prermissiveness in society but preventing lives from being killed . Disagree or not , you ca n't separate the anti-abortion message from the fact that it holds to the view that abortion is a form of murder .""","""And reduction of abortion requirements by preventing conception is not in line with that position ? I see both issues tied to efforts of intent to control sex outside traditional marriage , again a belief system moral judgment ( sin ) , and inseparable .""",DISAGREE,"""Disagree or not , you ca n't separate the anti-abortion message from the fact that it holds to the view that abortion is a form of murder .""","""And reduction of abortion requirements by preventing conception is not in line with that position ?""",,
23956,6338,"""It ca n't come up with evidence if it 's suppressed from future generations . Until you can show that happenstance origins are science , you have no basis to declare that intelligent design is not science . I agree that I have n't shown how ID has a potential advantage to the political corruptness of today 's scientific community , but I 've shown it 's potential advantage to our society . I 've shown how thinking is involved with it , the type of thinking involved in any school class involving philosophy , which you said science classes should have .""","""Please explain how ID is suppressed . It is taught as a hypothesis currently , and even if it were banned from being mentioned in schools , scientists can still do all the research they want on it . And you should know censorchip usually makes the idea more popular , just as banning the f word makes more people use it . Scientists would do research on ID , there is no suppression . You have shown how there may be benefit if there is a God and we assume ID is true . No specific examples , and no proof it 's true . This is simply a guess , a `` theory `` as used in normal terms . In the science terms that would be a hypothesis . It is currently taught as a hypothesis . The point comes down to the fact that the debate is n't about whether it should be taught as a hypothesis , but whether it should be taught as a valid alternative to evolution . You have admitted that not only does evolution have a lot of evidence , it has also led to many contributioins in science . You are the affirmative so it is up to you to prove that Intelligent Design should be taught as a valid alternative to evolution . So far you have shown that it 's an interesting idea , that may in the future lead to some good things . But you have failed to prove that it is in any way even close to the theory of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""It ca n't come up with evidence if it 's suppressed from future generations .""","""Please explain how ID is suppressed . It is taught as a hypothesis currently , and even if it were banned from being mentioned in schools""",,
23980,6342,"""I made the same mistake .""","""No , this is not about abortion , and I think that is very clear . If I wanted to discuss abortion , then I would mosey on along to the abortion forum and post there . The point about abortion that I brought up is that it questions the premise offered by thelmoose with respect to juvenile development . In fact , this point was made in the dissent of a Supreme Court opinion dealing with executing juvenile offenders . On the one hand , it is argued that juveniles do posses enough moral maturity to be able to have the same right to abortion as an adult , but on the other hand , it is argued that they do not posses enough moral maturity to be able to be held to the same standard as adults when it comes to the decision to commit cold blooded murder . For your convenience , I underlined the key parts . We have here two contradictory statements . That is what I was pointing out .""",DISAGREE,"""I made the same mistake""","""No , this is not about abortion , and I think that is very clear .""",,
23999,6345,"""There is definitely a controversy between whether or not Global Warming is happening or not . I know that where I live , the year-round temperature is actually getting colder ! Anyway , even if Global Warming was a proven fact , nothing should change . We should still be trying to create as little pollution as possible , right ? So , what does it matter ?""","""Because global warming changes what we consider to be pollution . CO2 emissions are only really a pollutant because they contribute to climate change , because the levels for CO2 to be toxic to humans are order of magnitude higher than those presently in the atmosphere .""",DISAGREE,"""Anyway , even if Global Warming was a proven fact , nothing should change .""","""global warming climate change ,""",,
23994,6345,"""There is definitely a controversy between whether or not Global Warming is happening or not . I know that where I live , the year-round temperature is actually getting colder ! Anyway , even if Global Warming was a proven fact , nothing should change . We should still be trying to create as little pollution as possible , right ? So , what does it matter ?""","""Because global warming changes what we consider to be pollution . CO2 emissions are only really a pollutant because they contribute to climate change , because the levels for CO2 to be toxic to humans are order of magnitude higher than those presently in the atmosphere .""",DISAGREE,"""even if Global Warming was a proven fact , nothing should change . We should still be trying to create as little pollution as possible""","""Because global warming changes what we consider to be pollution . CO2 emissions are only really a pollutant because they contribute to climate change""",,
23997,6345,"""There is definitely a controversy between whether or not Global Warming is happening or not . I know that where I live , the year-round temperature is actually getting colder ! Anyway , even if Global Warming was a proven fact , nothing should change . We should still be trying to create as little pollution as possible , right ? So , what does it matter ?""","""Because global warming changes what we consider to be pollution . CO2 emissions are only really a pollutant because they contribute to climate change , because the levels for CO2 to be toxic to humans are order of magnitude higher than those presently in the atmosphere .""",DISAGREE,"""definitely a controversy temperature is actually getting colder !""","""global warming changes CO2 emissions are only really a pollutant""",,
24004,6346,"""They rarely date fossils anymore ... instead they look at the strata of earth the bones were found in .""","""Uh yeah , do you know what side you 're on ? You just supported my argument""",DISAGREE,"""They rarely date fossils anymore""","""You just supported my argument""",,
24007,6347,"""it has been known for a long time -- it 's just been surpressed because it contradicts genetic determinism and neo-darwinsm in general .""","""I 'm not sure what you mean by either genetic determinism or neo-darwinism , but there is no contradiction between multi-purpose genes and evolution by natural selection , or the principle that genotypic alterations have a phenotypic expression . Just because a gene may have more than one function , or multiple genes make contribute to a single characteristic , does n't make any substantive difference to the theory of evolution , which you should recall was inititally developed before there was any understanding of genetics at all .""",DISAGREE,"""it has been known for a long time -- it 's just been surpressed because it contradicts genetic determinism and neo-darwinsm in general .""","""I 'm not sure what you mean by either genetic determinism or neo-darwinism , but there is no contradiction between multi-purpose genes and evolution by natural selection""",,
24012,6348,"""It is my understanding that the number of states that have amendments banning same-sex marriage is now at 19 . Even California is working on it . The number of states that have laws that ban it is 33 . ( Maybe more now ; that number was from early 2004 ) I think gay 'rights ' lobbyists would do well to start realizing that marriage really matters a lot to the majority of people in this country , and to realize that they are treading on an institution that is traditionally and fundamentally opposite-sex by nature and definition . The number of states not allowing gay marriage is on the rise dramatically , since gay activists began pushing things so strongly in the last few years . The more gay people push to redefine marriage , the harder they are going to make it for themselves .""","""No , that 's a myth . The less gay rights activists push for complete equality , the less they are going to get . People do justify banning civil unions as well as marriage because `` gays deserve it for pushing so hard toward marriage `` . Of course , that logic is horrible , for people do not deserve to be punished because they 've asked for equal rights . But regardless , if gay rights activists asked for only civil unions , then people would feel just as obligated to suggest a compromise between civil unions and no unions , then they would feel obligated in banning that too , because gay people should n't have been pushing for civil unions . If we do not push for complete equality , there will never be complete equality , and no matter how many states decide to ban it , things will never change if this fight does not happen .""",DISAGREE,"""same-sex marriage is now at 19 I think gay 'rights ' lobbyists would do well to start realizing that marriage really matters ,""","""The less gay rights activists `` if gay rights activists asked for only civil unions""",,
24027,6364,"""-A record of those who have had/or have mental illnesses . This is perfectly reasonable , but it also requires the help of the citizens to help the person in need .""","""But on the other hand , you are willing to violate a person 's right to privacy ( medical records ) in order to limit their access to firearms . Which right is more important ? - Your right to privacy or your right to own a machine gun ?""",DISAGREE,"""record of those who have had/or have mental illnesses""","""you are willing to violate a person 's right to privacy""",,
24029,6365,"""Do you attempt to improve your collection by selling a firearm that another hobbyist wants and then reinvesting in the & # 8220 ; latest firearm or piece of gear & # 8221 ; found in your favorite gun magazine ? Have you ever had to liquidate some of your collection to finance a project that was very important to you or your family ? FBI Special Agent John Shipley has been indicted by a Federal Grand Jury in El Paso , Texas for buying and selling firearms without a license . What the government does not understand is that the personal sale of a firearm is NOT illegal . The Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide clearly states that a & # 8220 ; Dealer is defined as : & # 8220 ; ( c ) Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker . A person who devotes time , attention , and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms , but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales , exchanges , or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby , or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms. & # 8221 ; Since John & # 8217 ; s livelihood is as a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation ( FBI ) his life is dedicated to upholding and enforcing the laws of the United States of America . His grandparents sparked his interest in firearms and had even contributed to his collection . But after qualifying for a SWAT team and becoming a sniper for the FBI , his interests and guns began to more closely line up with his needs and wants to become a firearms instructor for the FBI . In most cases , a crime is committed and justice searches for the person that committed the crime . But in this case , justice has found a person and they are searching for a crime to pin upon him . Having a personal collection of firearms , ammunition , and related items is NOT Illegal . Reading firearms magazines , belonging to a gun club and frequently going to the firing range is also NOT Illegal . Buying and selling guns to improve or enhance a personal collection or to even liquidate a part or all of a collection is NOT Illegal . So why is John Shipley being accused of selling firearms without a license , when a license is not required ? I guess we will have to watch this case very closely , because if an FBI Special Agent can be targeted , any gun enthusiast could be next !""","""An FBI agent of all people , the federal standard of police and law enforcement !""",AGREE,"""FBI Special Agent John Shipley has been indicted by a Federal Grand Jury in El Paso , Texas for buying and selling firearms without a license . What the government does not understand is that the personal sale of a firearm is NOT illegal . The Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide clearly states that a Dealer is defined as : ( c ) Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker .""","""An FBI agent of all people , the federal standard of police and law enforcement !""",,
24052,6369,"""and another ... In order to act as raw material only , variation must walk a tightrope between two unacceptable alternatives . first and foremost , variation must exist in sufficient amounts , for natural selection can make nothing , and must rely upon bounty thus provided ; but variation must not be too florid or showy either , lest it become the creative agent of change itself . Variation , in short , must be copious , small in extent , and undirected .""","""And as far as we know , they are undirected . Evidence to the contrary ?""",DISAGREE,"""In order to act as raw material only , variation must walk a tightrope""","""they are undirected . Evidence to the contrary ?""",,
24079,6376,"""Secondly , why would it matter to you about someone trying to define God , who paradoxically , is be definition , undefinable ?""","""By definition is undefinable ? So then God you can not claim that god is : loving , good , omnipotent , ominiscent , etc .... Or do you claim such . Again I ask you describe what it is that you believe in ? Is your answer than you believe in the undefinable of which you do not know any further ?""",DISAGREE,"""Secondly , why would it matter to you about someone trying to define God , who paradoxically , is be definition , undefinable ?""","""By definition is undefinable ? So then God you can not claim that god is : loving , good , omnipotent , ominiscent ,""",,
24086,6377,"""Reptile develops birdlike bones . Bones break , dinos ca n't do anything , go extinct . One less species .""","""Hollow bones however when equipped with wings allow for greater flight distance .""",DISAGREE,"""Reptile develops birdlike bones Bones break ,""","""when equipped with wings allow for greater flight distance""",,
24109,6381,"""We now have two `` bash pro-life `` threads which are bordering on bigotry . Did any one of you three posters which to have a serious discussion on this or would you rather stick with the close-minded look at things ?""","""Bigotry ? ? I have no idea what you mean there . Anyway , I ca n't speak for the other thread , but I raised an issue that no pro-lifer has addressed , including you . So if you want to really have a discussion , start discussing instead of bickering . Do you think that protesting a Planned Parenthood clinic might have an unintended consequence of discouraging someone from visiting who planned to obtain birth control , ( or a Pap smear or other non-abortion service ) thereby increasing the likelihood of an unwanted pregnancy ( or cervical cancer , etc . ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""We now have two `` bash pro-life `` threads which are bordering on bigotry .""","""Bigotry ? ? I have no idea what you mean there .""",,
24106,6381,"""We now have two `` bash pro-life `` threads which are bordering on bigotry . Did any one of you three posters which to have a serious discussion on this or would you rather stick with the close-minded look at things ?""","""Bigotry ? ? I have no idea what you mean there . Anyway , I ca n't speak for the other thread , but I raised an issue that no pro-lifer has addressed , including you . So if you want to really have a discussion , start discussing instead of bickering . Do you think that protesting a Planned Parenthood clinic might have an unintended consequence of discouraging someone from visiting who planned to obtain birth control , ( or a Pap smear or other non-abortion service ) thereby increasing the likelihood of an unwanted pregnancy ( or cervical cancer , etc . ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""We now have two `` bash pro-life `` threads which are bordering on bigotry""","""Bigotry ? ? I have no idea what you mean there . Anyway , I ca n't speak for the other thread , but I raised an issue that no pro-lifer has addressed ,""",,
24115,6382,"""Originally posted by voiceofreason You 're nuts , Kelvin . Only the rich would be able to afford military weapons . The rich would have dominion over the poor .""","""Huh ? Please expound how the Gates , the Gettys , the Kennedys , the Hiltons , the Rockafellers dominate the poor with guns . The rich can afford and can legally own them right now . Are they enslaving the poor right now at the end of a gun barrel ? Please explain that if a common man can store , use , and own modern military weapons as safe or even safer that the state ; that he/she should not be allowed to own military weapons .""",DISAGREE,"""Only the rich would be able to afford military weapons . The rich would have dominion over the poor .""","""The rich can afford and can legally own them right now . Are they enslaving the poor right now at the end of a gun barrel ?""",,
24128,6385,"""how is either Genesis 1 or 2 in error ? it looks to me as though Gen 1 is an overview of the creation week , and Gen 2 brings the specific creation of man and woman into focus . how is that error ? maybe I dont see it ...""","""Because both have different creation orders . Even if chapter 2 is 'specific ' that does n't even address the problem that the OP presented . Basically , what is the order of creation-chapter 1 or 2 ? Please justify your answer .""",DISAGREE,"""Gen 2 brings the specific creation of man and woman into focus""","""'specific ' that does n't even address the problem that the OP presented""",,
24134,6386,"""It 's even worth pointing out that many of them occurred in officially Christian countries , such as Germany , Poland and Tzarist Russia , or devoutly Islamic countries such as Pakistan -- and all these for religious reasons that had nothing to do with atheism .""","""And yet all were done mainly by atheistic leaders whose atheism gave them the framework to justify what they were doing .""",DISAGREE,"""worth pointing out that many of them occurred""","""all were done mainly by atheistic leaders whose atheism""",,
24142,6387,"""I am a proud American . I believe in the right to life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness of living , breathing human beings . That we gain those sacred rights with our first breath of life upon birth .""","""To date , not a single profetallifer here has managed to come up with a way that , should , God forbid , the question of abortion be returned to the states , any state would enforce its ban on the procedure . If State `` A `` bans abortions under any and all circumstances ( the Palin proposal ) , and State `` B `` has a very liberal abortion law , just how do the officials from State `` A `` prevent their pregnant citizens from merely traveling to State `` B `` to have the procedure ? Similarly , what are the sanctions State `` A `` would put in place to enforce its abortion ban , and upon whom would they be enforced - the woman ? the doctor ? So far , all we have heard is plaitudinous bloviation about the moral issue . Let 's get up close and personal . How will it work in the real world ?""",DISAGREE,"""I am a proud American . I believe in the right to life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness of living , breathing human beings""","""To date , not a single profetallifer here has managed to come up with a way that , should , God forbid , the question of abortion be returned to the states , any state would enforce its ban on the procedure . ``""",,
24157,6390,"""From one of the cited papers : Third , while previous analyses suggest that the canonical code outperforms most alternatives , a comprehensive search of possible code structures suggests that far better alternatives are possible ( Wong 1980Citation ; DiGiulio 1989 , 1994Citation ; Goldman 1993Citation ) Early Fixation of an Optimal Genetic Code -- Freeland et al . 17 ( 4 ) : 511 -- Molecular Biology and Evolution That , and the fact that the genetic code varies a bit in some kingdoms , pretty much rules out the notion of an `` optimal code. ``""","""Bare in mind they only conluded that after taking one parameter into consideration .""",AGREE,"""the genetic code varies a bit in some kingdoms , pretty much rules out the notion of an `` optimal code. ``""","""only conluded that after taking one parameter into consideration .""",,
24181,6395,"""... so you want guns to be able to live free , and therefore ignore democracy when it pleases you to do so . Guess you 're a true Anarchist then , and beleive that laws are merely a human invention and thus can be ignored by humans . Do n't complain when they use your beliefs to enfore their own beleifs over yours .""","""What are you talking about .... This is the law : A well regulated Militia , being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms , shall not be infringed . How is this Anarchy ? BTW the article is being sarcastic if you did n't get it , It demonstrates the hypocracy of the lunatic fringe lefties out there ... Did Rosie bring her armed guards to san fran to get hitched ?""",DISAGREE,"""so you want guns to be able to live free , and therefore ignore democracy when it pleases you to do so . Guess you 're a true Anarchist then""","""What are you talking about .... This is the law : A well regulated Militia , being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms , shall not be infringed""",,
24194,6398,"""BS . Where is the raw data ... The link you show is from www.gunowners.org over there and does not give links to the raw data so it is probably skewed to make themselves look better . Your own words condemn you""","""Your experience with raw data is laughable . Your UK raw data says NOTHING about a causal relationship between guns and crime .""",DISAGREE,"""Where is the raw data""","""Your experience with raw data is laughable .""",,
24192,6398,"""BS . Where is the raw data ... The link you show is from www.gunowners.org over there and does not give links to the raw data so it is probably skewed to make themselves look better . Your own words condemn you""","""Your experience with raw data is laughable . Your UK raw data says NOTHING about a causal relationship between guns and crime .""",DISAGREE,"""raw data www.gunowners.org probably skewed condemn you""","""laughable UK NOTHING relationship crime""",,
24213,6415,"""I disagree . If there were 500,000 gay couples in the US today that wanted to get married and Uncle Sam said `` OK `` , instantly , 500,000 people who 5 minutes before had zero legal standing and NO chance of gaining any benefits as a married partner , with respects to SS , Medicare , gov't pensions , tax breaks , etc. , suddenly become stakeholders . I 'd call that the creation of a new class of dependent . To argue otherwise is to be in denial .""","""Well , to argue so reveals an ignorance of the meaning of the word `` class `` . There would be no new class , as there would be no new categories above . Would there be more members of the `` married `` class ? Yes . I thought you righties thought more married folks was a good thing ? ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""I disagree . If there were 500,000 gay couples in the US today that wanted to get married and Uncle Sam said `` OK `` , instantly , 500,000 people who 5 minutes before had zero legal standing and NO chance of gaining any benefits as a married partner , with respects to SS , Medicare , gov't pensions , tax breaks ,""","""Would there be more members of the `` married `` class ? Yes . I thought you righties thought more married folks was a good thing ? ? ? ?""",,
24222,6417,"""U.S. guns arm Mexican drug cartels - Los Angeles Times""","""And how exactly do you explain the article mentioning the hand grenades and rocket launchers ? Are you saying that the average gun store has such items in stock ? Trigger 's link is much more accurate than yours is . Mexico Cartels Do n't Buy Assault Weapons from U.S. `` The next day I went into work and sat down with a trusted senior Mexican manager . I looked at him and said , `` I thought guns were illegal in Mexico. `` He chuckled and said , `` So you stayed in town last night ? `` As the conversation progressed , it became clear that guns are as common in Mexico as tamales at Christmas . Everyone he knows , including himself , own at least one gun . And , it matters not whether it 's a semi-auto or fully automatic , they 're all illegal , so why stop with semi-autos ? Though clearly illegal in the states in most instances , a lot of Mexicans have more firepower in terms of military weapons than we can only dream of owning here. `` '' These are not the so-called `` assault weapons `` you can buy at the local gun shop in the U.S. , but full select-fire military-issue rifles . Now , I know you want to know and are dying to ask ; Did I see any U.S. military-issue weapons stolen from the U.S. military ? Not a single one was marked with U.S. military markings . Everything was marked with additional foreign markings on the receiver , including M16 rifles , or they had nothing at all . I saw firearms manufactured in Europe , China , Russia and South America along with U.S. manufactured weapons . I saw rifles that looked familiar with no place of manufacture , no serial number or manufacturer 's logo . The information was not removed , it was never there to begin with . I can only assume they came from illegal arms manufacturers in India or Pakistan that produce copies of weapons . It was obvious that none of these firearms came from a U.S. gun shop in Tucson or San Diego . You could n't buy them from a gun shop in the states if you tried. `` '' Despite being able to own .22 caliber pistols or rifles , Mexican law requires them to be stored at an approved firing range . Where 's the firing range I asked many times ? No one knew of one . Where 's the gun stores in town to buy legal guns ? Gun stores ? No one ever recalled seeing one anywhere in Mexico , let alone their city. `` '' All this flies in the face of news articles published by the U.S. media in the last week or two . Mexico 's gun problems are a direct result of gun runners buying `` assault weapons `` in the U.S. and taking them into Mexico to arm drug cartels , says the U.S. media and government . That is a bunch of government and media nonsense . The cartels are n't arming themselves from U.S. gun stores with semi-auto AR15 and AK47 rifles . They 've moved on up. `` '' Cartels buy their arms from countries around the world , most any place where military weapons can be purchased on the black market , or from countries wishing to destabilize North America . They arm themselves from a worldwide black market of full auto military weapons including grenades , land mines and RPGs . They also `` procure `` their weapons from the less than savory from within the Mexican military. `` '' The drug cartels can easily afford to fly their weaponry into Mexico using their own fleet of aircraft on to remote airfields , or land them on remote Mexican shores from their fleet of vessels . They do it with drugs all of the time . Drug cartels buying semi-auto AR15 or AK rifles from U.S. gun dealers is viewed as a joke by Mexico 's drug cartel , most Mexicans , and unfortunately by the Mexican government . The only people fooled by all the political rhetoric are Americans listening to the likes of Attorney General Eric Holder and other anti-gun politicians. `` Latin American Herald Tribune - Mexico Arrests Cartel Hit Man in Execution of Army General `` In the operation , the Mexican army also seized 23 assault rifles , 20 handguns , 23 grenades , two grenade launchers , a rocket launcher , cartridges and ammunition clips , $ 42,000 worth of cash , six vehicles and radio equipment. `` Where the hell did the grenades and launchers come from ?""",DISAGREE,"""U.S. guns arm Mexican drug cartels - Los Angeles Times""","""Cartels buy their arms from countries around the world , most any place where military weapons""",,
24232,6418,"""Basically this thread will talk about the following : Human rights and how they come to exist Reasons for human rights How human rights relate to abortion How morality deals with the issues of abortion What makes someone deserving of human rights""","""So , are you both still interesting in debating these topics ?""",AGREE,"""Human rights and how they come to exist Reasons for human How human rights relate to abortion""","""you both still interesting in debating these topics ?""",,
24239,6420,"""See , here is the example of how .. out of touch you are . Of course it could be dangerous . I have not only been gay bashed once , but twice in my life . The first time coming out of a bar when I was in my early 20s . I was beaten by five guys with baseball bats . My head swelled 3 times it 's size and I was out cold for 4 days . I had `` nike `` imprinted into my skin from the bottom of their sneakers . The second time , I met a friend for dinner at a local bar . We met at about 7pm , had a drink and as we left the bar to go to a diner I was body slammed by two college kids running down the street . Broke my collar bone and was knocked out . When the owner of the bar came out he asked ... do you think this was a hate crime . We have been having some problems .""","""How long ago were those instances ? Things have changed a lot in my opinion , over the years .""",DISAGREE,"""how .. out of touch you are I have not only been gay bashed once , but twice in my life . The first time coming out of a bar when I was in my early 20s `` The second time , I met a friend for dinner at a local bar ...""","""How long ago were those instances ? Things have changed a lot in my opinion , over the years .""",,
24252,6422,"""So what ? Most of them are still getting killed with guns . A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue . The basic idea is to `` win `` an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic . This sort of `` reasoning `` has the following form : 1 . Topic A is under discussion . 2 . Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A ( when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A ) . 3 . Topic A is abandoned .""","""You just committed one then ! Stick around brady , I reckon Bryan will be along directly ? Always ask yourself , what would MLK say .""",DISAGREE,"""So what ? Most of them are still getting killed with guns . A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue""","""You just committed one then ! Stick around brady , I reckon Bryan will be along directly ?""",,
24277,6426,"""SPOKANE , Wash. – Authorities searched by air and land Friday for a criminally insane killer who escaped during a mental hospital field trip to a county fair that has infuriated residents and officials around Washington . Authorities have said they believe Phillip Arnold Paul is heading to the Sunnyside area , where his parents and many siblings live . The Spokane County Sheriff 's Office launched a helicopter on Friday in the search , and the public was urged to call 911 if Paul is spotted . '' He is in a bad mental state , `` his brother , Tom Paul , told The Associated Press . '' Why would they load him on a bus and take him to a fair ? `` '' Why was he allowed to take such a trip ? `` Gov . Chris Gregoire said Friday . '' Why did they go to a location that was so heavily populated with families ? `` Thirty-one patients from the mental hospital were on the trip with 11 staff members . Patients must be cleared by a treatment team before they can go on trips to stores , parks , ball games , fairs and other sites , said hospital spokesman Jim Stevenson . They wear street clothing and need not all stay together , but staff members are required to keep each patient within eyesight at all times .""","""Some folks will never get it ! ! Some folks never had it and the rest have wierd ideas that some `` law `` will protect them .""",DISAGREE,"""criminally insane killer who escaped during a mental hospital field trip to a county fair that has infuriated residents and officials around Washington .""","""Some folks will never get it ! !""",,
24292,6443,"""What kind of patterns , please be specific . What would you expect to see if ID were real ? If ToE were real we would ( for example ) expect to see nested hierarchies in taxa . If one ca n't attempt to falsify a theory then it is not open to science and therfore useless to science . It becomes simply an untestable belief .""","""The OP assumes ID is real . Asking specifics is ridiculous because we do not know how the proof of ID would be revealed or exactly what the intelligent ' force ' or manifestation would be""",DISAGREE,"""What would you expect to see if ID were real ?""","""The OP assumes ID is real . Asking specifics is ridiculous because we do not know how the proof of ID would be revealed""",,
24296,6444,"""Well , at least they 're trying to do it the right way , instead of finding some biased judges to render them some ruling .""","""Of course , since this has never happened , you really do n't need to worry about it that much .""",AGREE,"""Well , at least they 're trying to do it the right way , instead of finding some biased judges to render them some ruling .""","""Of course , since this has never happened , you really do n't need to worry about it that much .""",,
24317,6455,"""How corrupt are you to claim I am lying when you have never supported or proven the original claim""","""You mean the whole `` seabed `` issue you deliberately wish to avoid ? You ever going to get around to how YEC does n't make any sense with oil and gas exploration ?""",DISAGREE,"""lying""","""You mean the whole `` seabed `` issue you deliberately wish to avoid ? how YEC does n't make any sense with oil and gas exploration ?""",,
24326,6457,"""? ? ? It just happened recently in Maryland""","""You mean where the judge did the job she 's paid to do by ruling on the constitutionality of a law ? Or is this only a problem when it 's laws that you like that are ruled unconstitutional ? This is Civics 101 . If the legislature writes a law that is unconstitutional , it 's the job of the judicial branch to strike it down . The legislature can then rewrite the law , or get the constitution amended . I 've yet to see you demonstrate this process being abused in the matter of gay marriage . All you 've done is point out rulings you do n't like .""",DISAGREE,"""Maryland""","""of a law , it down rewrite the law""",,
24336,6458,"""Marriage is also legally binding . Tax breaks ? Ever hear of the Marriage Penalty ?""","""And did you ever hear that it 's not always a penalty but sometimes a benefit ? And did you know that if it would be a penalty , you 're free to simply not file your taxes jointly , which results in no penalty at all ? And certainly with respect to insurance , there are many benefits bestowed by marriage , as cmitch06 pointed out . This of course does n't factor in the countless other benefits of marriage , such as naturalization , food stamps , veteran 's benefits , housing benefits , greater ability to take out a loan , visitation rights , property rights , etc .""",DISAGREE,"""legally binding Marriage Penalty ?""","""by marriage""",,
24349,6460,"""Already provided above .""","""Not hardly . Show where they initiated it . Your first link showed it to be a reaction to the initiation done by evolutionists .""",DISAGREE,"""provided""","""reaction to the initiation""",,
24372,6466,"""However , if there is a contest between the rights of a living , existing person and the rights of either * potential * person , then I think the rights of the living person win out .""","""That 's fair enough , but I just think it 's important to at least acknowledge and realize that the unborn baby does have worth and importance , and not just a piece of tissue as it 's so often callously viewed .""",AGREE,"""rights of a living , existing person and the rights of either * potential * person rights of the living person win out""","""That 's fair enough ,""",,
24374,6466,"""However , if there is a contest between the rights of a living , existing person and the rights of either * potential * person , then I think the rights of the living person win out .""","""That 's fair enough , but I just think it 's important to at least acknowledge and realize that the unborn baby does have worth and importance , and not just a piece of tissue as it 's so often callously viewed .""",AGREE,"""the rights of a living , existing person and the rights of either * potential * person , then I think the rights of the living person win out .""","""That 's fair enough""",,
24379,6467,"""Humans are the same way . Oh , you might eventually come across a vegetable who is n't able to breed , but I submit that 99.99 % of all humans can do so .""","""Again , they must be alive . Previously , you submitted that there are many problems with society and life or whatever . Could it be that some people might be able to survive those problems ? Could it be that those survivors would be the ones to reproduce ?""",DISAGREE,"""you might eventually come across a vegetable who is n't able to breed""","""Could it be that those survivors would be the ones to reproduce ?""",,
24396,6478,"""Actually it should be easily to relate to VOR on this : he only argues with emotion . No facts , no evidence , no proof , just emotion .""","""Voice of Reason ? HmmÂ…He used to be in Military Intelligence hence the debacle in Vietnam . He probably still thinks that the US won the war .""",DISAGREE,"""he only argues with emotion . No facts , no evidence , no proof , just emotion .""","""used to be in Military Intelligence hence the debacle in Vietnam He""",,
24398,6478,"""Actually it should be easily to relate to VOR on this : he only argues with emotion . No facts , no evidence , no proof , just emotion .""","""Voice of Reason ? HmmÂ…He used to be in Military Intelligence hence the debacle in Vietnam . He probably still thinks that the US won the war .""",DISAGREE,"""Actually it should be easily to relate to VOR on this :""","""Voice of Reason ?""",,
24402,6479,"""The whole `` change the definition of marriage `` is mainly a scare tactic used by anti-gay religious bigots . They do n't seem to realize that words can have several meanings .""","""Funny how they never claimed that naming a computer pointing device a `` mouse `` was blasphemous to Mickey .""",AGREE,"""change the definition of marriage `` is mainly a scare tactic used by anti-gay religious bigots""","""they never claimed that naming a computer pointing device a `` mouse `` was blasphemous to Mickey .""",,
24412,6481,"""What we are left with are gods that have considerably little interaction with the world that we know .""","""That who knows ? Your use of `` we `` does not include many religious folk I assume . I would claim to know of much interaction that God has and has had with the world .""",DISAGREE,"""with the world that we know .""","""That who knows ? Your use of `` we `` does not include many religious folk I""",,
24421,6483,"""If a woman does not want to be pregnant , she can abstain from sex . It works !""","""She could , but not all do Despite the fact that it works , there are still unwanted pregnancies That does n't change the fact that a pregnancy would not be pleasant to a woman who does not want to be pregnant Forcing pregnancy by law is a step toward fascism .""",DISAGREE,"""If a woman does not want to be pregnant , she can abstain from sex .""","""She could , but not all do Despite the fact that it works , there are still unwanted pregnancies""",,
24429,6485,"""You gather information from other forums , then use it as bait on yet another forum ? Exactly how many forums do you belong to ? I would hope you would n't be too surprised that others sometimes ignore you . Is this your main activity in life ?""","""Actually other forums have intelligent people adding new products . Frankly , I just consolidating their posts . Amusingly , I have yet to find a single creationist who can offer a single tangible , non-print product . If your belief was true , why is there absolutely no commercialization of it aside from books and print related material ? Maybe because your belief is absolute total garbage ?""",DISAGREE,"""You gather information from other forums , then use it as bait on yet another forum ?""","""Actually other forums have intelligent people adding new products .""",,
24433,6485,"""You gather information from other forums , then use it as bait on yet another forum ? Exactly how many forums do you belong to ? I would hope you would n't be too surprised that others sometimes ignore you . Is this your main activity in life ?""","""Actually other forums have intelligent people adding new products . Frankly , I just consolidating their posts . Amusingly , I have yet to find a single creationist who can offer a single tangible , non-print product . If your belief was true , why is there absolutely no commercialization of it aside from books and print related material ? Maybe because your belief is absolute total garbage ?""",DISAGREE,"""You gather information from other forums""","""other forums have intelligent people adding new products""",,
24444,6488,"""And the state ... States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""","""The National Guard interpretation of the militia is totally false . The NG is a standing army . The militia is not . The NG can be federalized . The militia can not . They wear the same uniforms . The officers all know each other and play golf together . If the NG is the militia , then I want to have stock plies of weapons at schools , hospitals , libraries , and churches . No federalization of NG . Complete and total seperation of NG from federal influence , communication , and socializatlion , right down to even different uniforms .""",DISAGREE,"""And the state ... States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""","""National Guard interpretation of the militia is totally false . The NG is a standing army .""",,
24446,6488,"""And the state ... States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""","""The National Guard interpretation of the militia is totally false . The NG is a standing army . The militia is not . The NG can be federalized . The militia can not . They wear the same uniforms . The officers all know each other and play golf together . If the NG is the militia , then I want to have stock plies of weapons at schools , hospitals , libraries , and churches . No federalization of NG . Complete and total seperation of NG from federal influence , communication , and socializatlion , right down to even different uniforms .""",DISAGREE,"""States can have armies ... The people are the Militia .""","""The NG is a standing army . The militia is not .""",,
24473,6493,"""The bible also states blessed is the fruit of thy womb does n't it why use just one scripture of the bible why not go right through it i am damn sure you would find more scriptures condeming the killing of a human than you would condoning it . Which laws are we to follow the laws of * god * or the laws of the land ? we can not in all honesty follow both as both contradict each other to much .""","""And who was this passage directed towards ? Not the general public I suppose.Just because the bible say 's one fruit and one womb is blessed does n't automatically mean they all are ! If that were true God would make sure there were no such thing as a miscarriage .""",DISAGREE,"""Which laws are we to follow the laws of * god * or the laws of the land ?""","""And who was this passage directed towards ? Not the general public I""",,
24489,6495,"""`` The use of Pepper Spray is legal for carrying by a person 18 years of age or older `` `` Some examples of misuse include ; spraying on people in anger , as a joke , possession of by prohibited persons ; minors , drug addicts or persons convicted of felonies. `` Do n't know where you got that . I was watching a reality TV show ( my DVR quit on me ) about court files . A CA jury sentenced a teenage girl to 22 years of hard time for stabbing a 47 year old man when he tried to rape her . Assuming this is true ( which it could not be due to the fact that its reality TV ) , how can the jury sleep at night ? The defense proved that the man often made violent sexual advances on women , and the 17 year old girl was not inherently violent . She was convicted on second degree murder and sentenced to the maximum possible amount of time . Seriously , this is one F * cked up state . I ca n't even believe something like that would happen in this day and age .""","""Well she had a # # # # poor lawyer , or there was more to it than the `` reality `` show was letting on . Check Ca.ORD . 12403.8 `` keyword ``""",DISAGREE,"""She was convicted on second degree murder and sentenced to the maximum possible amount of time .""","""Well she had a # # # # poor lawyer""",,
24494,6496,"""The symbiotic relationships of animals and plants that can only survive together .""","""And this is evidence of creation ... how ? Please provide an explanation and a reference for how this is evidence of creation . Thank you ! : - )""",DISAGREE,"""symbiotic relationships of animals and plants only survive together""","""evidence of creation ... how ? provide an explanation and a reference""",,
24495,6496,"""The symbiotic relationships of animals and plants that can only survive together .""","""And this is evidence of creation ... how ? Please provide an explanation and a reference for how this is evidence of creation . Thank you ! : - )""",DISAGREE,"""The symbiotic relationships of animals and plants that can only survive together .""","""Please provide an explanation and a reference for how this is evidence of creation . Thank you ! : - )""",,
24502,6499,"""Being pro-life 'except for rape ' does n't make any sense . It 's the same organism regardless of the father .""","""I think it 's hipocritical for pro-lifers to call themselves pro-life except for rape . It 's either a child or it 's not . If it is a child , then no matter what , the child must survive , becuase it has every right to . If the fetus is n't a child , then we can do whatever the hell we wnat with it . But it 's a child , since humans only produce children , and not being of other speices , in accordance to the Principle of Biogenesis . Therefore , abortion is wrong in all cases .""",AGREE,"""Being pro-life 'except for rape ' does n't make any sense . It 's the same organism regardless of the father .""","""I think it 's hipocritical for pro-lifers to call themselves pro-life except for rape . It 's either a child or it 's not . If it is a child , then no matter what , the child must survive , becuase it has every right to . If the fetus is n't a child , then we can do whatever the hell we wnat with it . But it 's a child , since humans only produce children , and not being of other speices ,""",,
24526,6506,"""Very good point wjim but I want to drain the water from the Canada argument and leave it dry . If no statistics saying that Canada 's strict gun laws lowered crime then the argument is dry and useless . So far I have found statistics that say gun control results in a rise in crime . No one has disputed this with statistics . FACT : Gun control raises crime . or do you have proof saying the opposite If not then the argument saying gun control would lower crime is invalid . Agreed ?""","""The Brady Bill does not lower crime : http : //jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/284/5/585 A little dated , 1997 , but also note that both Cook and Ludwig were both anti-gunners . '' Brady Law Proponents : Ludwig , Cook , JAMA Among Lott 's harshest critics have been anti-self-defense academics Professors Jens Ludwig and Philip J. Cook . In a study funded by the anti-self-defense Joyce Foundation and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association ( JAMA ) they set out to debunk Lott 's findings regarding the Brady law . There was just one problem : they couldn't. `` http : //rpc.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/gc083100.htm""",AGREE,"""If no statistics saying that Canada 's strict gun laws lowered crime then the argument is dry and useless . say gun control results in a rise in crime .""","""The Brady Bill does not lower crime : '' ``""",,
24536,6508,"""8 . Correct spelling mistakes and convienantly not answer the question . Example : `` What do you thinkk of carbon dating ? `` '' you spelled think wrong `` . If you want to correct spelling , fine but answer the question as well .""","""There was nothing wrong with my answer . I did the correction after being insulted , double-standard huh . I am not entitled to my own opinion if it does n't agree with yours . I expected alot more from you , you 've let me down . Your obviously only looking at one side of the argument .""",DISAGREE,"""Correct spelling mistakes and convienantly not answer the question .""","""Your obviously only looking at one side of the argument .""",,
24549,6533,"""Then that & # 8217 ; s as far as we can go on it , and that & # 8217 ; s fine . Not being a science worshiper myself , I simply don & # 8217 ; t automatically take this type of blanket statement as automatically true .""","""And nor does anyone else . I think you grossly underestimate the thoroughness of much of the science you criticise .""",DISAGREE,"""Then that s as far as we can go on it , and that s fine .""","""And nor does anyone else . I think you grossly underestimate the thoroughness of much of the science you criticise .""",,
24551,6533,"""Then that & # 8217 ; s as far as we can go on it , and that & # 8217 ; s fine . Not being a science worshiper myself , I simply don & # 8217 ; t automatically take this type of blanket statement as automatically true .""","""And nor does anyone else . I think you grossly underestimate the thoroughness of much of the science you criticise .""",DISAGREE,"""that s as far as we can go on it statement as automatically true""","""nor does anyone else you grossly underestimate the thoroughness""",,
24553,6534,"""Yet evolutionists tell us that evolution could never happen the same way twice . And the reason they say that -- one of them -- is that NS on the level of the population is random .... which makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever .""","""It does n't make sense because no one makes that claim . There are some random events that take place that may have an effect on evolution . That does not mean that evolution is random .""",DISAGREE,"""NS on the level of the population is random""","""no one makes that claim""",,
24560,6535,"""There is enough knowledge and contraception around for unwanted pregnancies to be a rarity .""","""Thats another subject . In all , you have not answered the OP . The insane suggestion that abortion can not be murder , because murder is illegal and abortion legal .""",DISAGREE,"""There is enough knowledge and contraception""","""you have not answered the OP insane suggestion that abortion can not be murder""",,
24575,6539,"""No . They are no longer making the decisions and therefore should not be allowed to pick . However , if a criminal requests the death penalty , are there retrials to ensure the state is n't killing a innocent person ?""","""Well I do n't support ever using the death penalty but as long as we 're saying there is the death penalty and allowing them to choose then definately do n't have retrials . They should n't want to send an innocent person to prison for life either so it should have been pretty clear they were guilty already . If they do n't want to kill an innocent person , stick to life in prison .""",AGREE,"""They are no longer making the decisions and therefore should not be allowed to pick""","""If they do n't want to kill an innocent person , stick to life in prison .""",,
24577,6539,"""No . They are no longer making the decisions and therefore should not be allowed to pick . However , if a criminal requests the death penalty , are there retrials to ensure the state is n't killing a innocent person ?""","""Well I do n't support ever using the death penalty but as long as we 're saying there is the death penalty and allowing them to choose then definately do n't have retrials . They should n't want to send an innocent person to prison for life either so it should have been pretty clear they were guilty already . If they do n't want to kill an innocent person , stick to life in prison .""",AGREE,"""They are no longer making the decisions and therefore should not be allowed to pick .""","""person to prison for life either so it should have been pretty clear they were guilty already .""",,
24621,6544,"""Show me winking and nodding going on , marc . Stop insinuating bad behaviour and show me the evidence . Show me atheism being taught in the science classroom .""","""http : //www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm Atheism is becoming a worship of the earth .""",DISAGREE,"""winking and nodding going on , marc bad behaviour and show me the evidence .""","""Atheism is becoming a worship of the earth .""",,
24626,6544,"""Show me winking and nodding going on , marc . Stop insinuating bad behaviour and show me the evidence . Show me atheism being taught in the science classroom .""","""http : //www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm Atheism is becoming a worship of the earth .""",DISAGREE,"""Show me atheism being taught in the science classroom .""","""http : //www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm""",,
24628,6545,"""This one line stuck out because it mentioned evolution in a future context . Something I have not heard before .""","""I have not heard of it before either . Any information that you or other member 's can gather on this subject would be of great interest . I will also keep my eyes open .""",AGREE,"""Something I have not heard before .""","""I have not heard of it before either . Any information that you or other member 's can gather on this subject would be of great interest .""",,
24631,6545,"""This one line stuck out because it mentioned evolution in a future context . Something I have not heard before .""","""I have not heard of it before either . Any information that you or other member 's can gather on this subject would be of great interest . I will also keep my eyes open .""",AGREE,"""This one line stuck out I have not heard before""","""I have not heard of it before either other member 's can gather on this subject would be of great interest I will also keep my eyes open""",,
24646,6554,"""`` Elections matter . We have a pro-life Senate , `` the Kansas Republican said in an interview . It sounds like there might be some change coming up . The Senate is basically now pro-life now , and are even going to attemt to stop future filibusters .""","""I believe the filibuster issue relates to voting on judgeships only . ICBM , but this wo n't affect abortion issues . It 's only recently that the Democrats have used the filibuster to delay the vote on appointed judges . I do n't think there 's any possibility of getting rid of filibusters all together . BTW , what 's wrong with a pro-life court ?""",DISAGREE,"""The Senate is basically now pro-life now , and are even going to attemt to stop future filibusters .""","""I believe the filibuster issue relates to voting on judgeships only . ICBM , but this wo n't affect abortion issues .""",,
24645,6554,"""`` Elections matter . We have a pro-life Senate , `` the Kansas Republican said in an interview . It sounds like there might be some change coming up . The Senate is basically now pro-life now , and are even going to attemt to stop future filibusters .""","""I believe the filibuster issue relates to voting on judgeships only . ICBM , but this wo n't affect abortion issues . It 's only recently that the Democrats have used the filibuster to delay the vote on appointed judges . I do n't think there 's any possibility of getting rid of filibusters all together . BTW , what 's wrong with a pro-life court ?""",DISAGREE,"""It sounds like there might be some change coming up . The Senate is basically now pro-life now , and are even going to attemt to stop future filibusters .""","""I believe the filibuster issue relates to voting on judgeships only . ICBM , but this wo n't affect abortion issues .""",,
24663,6555,"""So if a person hearing your statement does n't consider it carefully , it 's very easy to be mislead by it . It implies that `` evolution `` ( the branch that declares that the book of Genesis is false ) is somehow a secular , observable truth - while creationism is nothing but a religion , a superstition .""","""It is n't about truth . It is about explaining the evidence as best we can . You did get the second part correct about creationism . That is why some Christians are not creationists .""",DISAGREE,"""So if a person hearing your statement does n't consider it carefully , it 's very easy to be mislead by it .""","""It is n't about truth . It is about explaining the evidence as best we can""",,
24668,6556,"""I havent heard from Brady in a while , so I thought I would rattle his cage door .""","""Well if your not too bright then you have to come up with arguments like this . Grizzly must not be very bright , noted .""",DISAGREE,"""I havent heard from Brady in a while , so I thought I would rattle his cage door .""","""Well if your not too bright then you have to come up with arguments like this .""",,
24677,6557,"""It is perfectly valid for someone to have the opinion that 'life ' begins with recordable brain activity ( as early as 40-days post-conception ) ... or 'self-awareness ' or any other such concept , or when the entity would be 'viable ' outside the womb . But there are varying levels of brain activity . There is no agreed upon definition of self-awareness .""","""There are some minimum requirements , though . The brain have to be able to receive stimuli and input . That happens during the 26th week of pregnancy , when the thalamocortical tract developes . Otherwise , it is no different than a computer that is turned off .""",DISAGREE,"""It is perfectly valid for someone to have the opinion that 'life ' begins with recordable brain activity ( as early as 40-days post-conception ) ... or 'self-awareness ' or any other such concept , or when the entity would be 'viable ' outside the womb .""","""There are some minimum requirements , though . The brain have to be able to receive stimuli and input .""",,
24681,6557,"""It is perfectly valid for someone to have the opinion that 'life ' begins with recordable brain activity ( as early as 40-days post-conception ) ... or 'self-awareness ' or any other such concept , or when the entity would be 'viable ' outside the womb . But there are varying levels of brain activity . There is no agreed upon definition of self-awareness .""","""There are some minimum requirements , though . The brain have to be able to receive stimuli and input . That happens during the 26th week of pregnancy , when the thalamocortical tract developes . Otherwise , it is no different than a computer that is turned off .""",DISAGREE,"""It is perfectly valid for someone to have the opinion that 'life ' begins with recordable brain activity""","""There are some minimum requirements , though . The brain have to be able to receive stimuli and input .""",,
24700,6559,"""Now that 's what I 'm talking about .""","""You mean you are as biologically ignorant and as easily refuted as the thread originator ? Yes , we knew that already . Why all the big letters ?""",DISAGREE,"""Now that 's what I 'm talking about .""","""You mean you are as biologically ignorant and as easily refuted as the thread originator ?""",,
24714,6568,"""Please do n't take offence , it 's a JOKE .""","""Please do n't take offense ; it 's GOOD FAITH ADVICE . Do n't quit your day job .""",DISAGREE,"""Please do n't take offence , it 's a JOKE .""","""Please do n't take offense ; it 's GOOD FAITH ADVICE . Do n't quit your day job .""",,
24712,6568,"""Please do n't take offence , it 's a JOKE .""","""Please do n't take offense ; it 's GOOD FAITH ADVICE . Do n't quit your day job .""",DISAGREE,"""Please do n't take offence""","""it 's GOOD FAITH ADVICE""",,
24739,6572,"""Can we get an unbiased point of view ? The bible is not just a book . It is the infallible word of God . And I would like to know what proof there is for evolution ?""","""Well , a good start would be at http : //www.talkorigins.org And , what evidence do you have that the bible is the infallible word of God ? Other , than of course , unsubstantiated claims the bible makes .""",DISAGREE,"""The bible is not just a book . It is the infallible word of God .""","""what evidence do you have that the bible is the infallible word of God ?""",,
24744,6573,"""The whole who is on top thing is an inapplicable concept .""","""* * But here you blow it . No system , as a whole , is subservient , subordinate , inferior , or secondary to any or all of its parts . By simple definition a whole system is greater than , and superior to , any and all of its constituent parts .""",DISAGREE,"""The whole who is on top thing is an inapplicable concept .""","""subordinate , inferior , or secondary to any or all of its parts""",,
24741,6573,"""The whole who is on top thing is an inapplicable concept .""","""* * But here you blow it . No system , as a whole , is subservient , subordinate , inferior , or secondary to any or all of its parts . By simple definition a whole system is greater than , and superior to , any and all of its constituent parts .""",DISAGREE,"""The whole who is on top thing is an inapplicable concept .""","""But here you blow it . No system , as a whole ,""",,
24753,6576,"""An apology would be nice . Also an admission that they were wrong about the blood running through the streets .""","""Just wait until the CIA starts shipping crack again instead of smack , then the streets will regain their crimson splendor . Does this mean I can buy DU rounds now ?""",AGREE,"""Also an admission that they were wrong about the blood running through the streets .""","""then the streets will regain their crimson splendor . Does this mean I can buy DU rounds now ?""",,
24796,6592,"""My anti-freedom agenda ? What the hell are you talking about ? Are you an anarchist ? That 's the only way to have 100 % freedom . The fact that government exists means that there are restrictions . So unless you are an anarchist , I can call you anti-freedom as much as you call me anti-freedom . The question is the degree to which government should restrict freedoms , and that is not an obvious question to answer .""","""Your anti-freedom agenda . Its so funny how you label anything that has less governance than your comfort of suckling on that entitlement sow and following your fedgov masters is anarchy ... I am not asking for anarchy . I am demanding my civil rights as a free born human being .""",DISAGREE,"""My anti-freedom agenda ? What the hell are you talking about ?""","""Your anti-freedom agenda . Its so funny how you label anything that has less governance than your comfort of suckling""",,
24819,6597,"""By the way gun hater Sarah Brady wants the very same laws and more !""","""No . Sarah Brady wants increased budgets for law enforcement and gun control on the same bill . Which is a slimly trick typical of dirty politicians and lawyers . That is the ammo use used to claim the NRA is against increased law enforcement budget . The NRA stands for increased budget only on one bill before Congress . Sarah Brady notions are irrational because she wants more that what is stated above . Please check `` no central database `` vs a database . Please check Sarah Brady 's 3 day waiting period + background check . I agree that rational laws are already on the books . I was merely re-enumerating them . How does Sarah Brady propose to reduce guns from the street ? Only two ways possible : 1 ) Gun buy back 2 ) Consfication . Please check the other threads regarding the astronomical cost of a gun buy back . Please check the Consitution for right of property ownership .""",DISAGREE,"""By the way gun hater Sarah Brady wants the very same laws and more !""","""No . Sarah Brady wants increased budgets for law enforcement and gun control on the same bill""",,
24826,6599,"""That would be Miami , where a playstation costs more on the street than an AK47 ...........""","""And where murder rates are over twice the national average , I might add . http : //miamifl.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm""",AGREE,"""That would be Miami , where a playstation costs more on the street than an AK47""","""And where murder rates are over twice the national average""",,
24834,6601,"""M-14 is what your suppose to love definitely M-14 .""","""My dad used a M-14 in Nam . Man every time he talks about the Tet Offensive it brings chills down my spine ...""",AGREE,"""M-14 is what your suppose to love definitely M-14 .""","""My dad used a M-14 in Nam . Man every time he talks about the Tet""",,
24839,6602,"""So the argument that this is a breach of separation of church and state is pretty weak , IMO .""","""Oh , oh , and do n't forget to include the proposed Federal Kosher Amendment 's text , which just coincidentally matches the Levitical proscriptions , in your argument that things like the FMA have nothing to do with separation of church and state .""",DISAGREE,"""So the argument that this is a breach of separation of church and state is pretty weak , IMO .""","""Oh , oh , and do n't forget to include the proposed Federal Kosher Amendment 's text , which just coincidentally matches the Levitical proscriptions , in your argument that things like the FMA have nothing to do with separation of church and state""",,
24848,6604,"""Pretty soon , the policy will be nationwide . Pretty soon , all highly technical jobs will be exported so that we can all praise the lord as we fall to third world status .""","""Do n't count on it . The number of scientists in the American scientific community that subscribe to creationism is about % 5 , based upon a relatively recent poll . I will try to dig it up . Also , calling most Kansas residents stupid for voting in Christian Board of Education members is ridiculous . Religious views are almost never even mentioned in local politics . At the most , you see perhaps a flyer that says `` Vote ______ `` . The Christians who want to teach Intelligent Design in schools are an extreme minority that the media , in all its story-searching rating-mongering glory , is blowing out of proportion .""",DISAGREE,"""Pretty soon , the policy will be nationwide .""","""Religious views are almost never even mentioned in local politics""",,
24850,6605,"""They 'll also ignore these other historical records of the flood Randy . Because they must in order to hold on to their secular belief system . Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life""","""We do n't ignore it . We look at the circumstances-all these stories are from civilizations/groups that live on or near flood plains . Floods are common place . Catastrophic floods , not so much . You , however , must ignore things . For example ; where is the global layer of sediments which the flood would have had to have laid down ? Such a sediment layer would be quite thick , and uniformly found around the globe , and would consist of particles sorted by density . We would expect to find no signs of life within this layer ( no tracks or burrows , and no signs of growing plant life such as paleosols are tree roots ) . This sedimentary layer would show signs of being layed down in water . As well , any animal fossils ( plant too ) , would be indiscrimately mixed . We would expect , for example , to find trilobites alongside modern day rays , rabbits with velociraptors , etc . Now , can you point out where such a global layer exists Archie ? If it does n't , that pretty much debunks the flood `` theory `` . But you just ignore that do n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""They 'll also ignore these other historical records of the flood Randy . Because they must in order to hold on to their secular belief system . Abiogenesis and the Origin of Life""","""We do n't ignore it . We look at the circumstances-all these stories are from civilizations/groups that live on or near flood plains . Floods are common place . Catastrophic floods , not so much . ``""",,
24858,6607,"""Your quiz consists of two multiple choice and an essay question . Let 's begin : 1 . Jesus was : A. a myth ; invented by heretical Jews , he never existed . B. an ordinary man who attracted a following by performing `` tricks `` and making interesting statements ; disengenuos and decieving his followers C. an amazing moral teacher , nothing more D. a complete madman . E. Other ( limit your response to 50 words )""","""1 , A . Myth ; Whilst there may have been a person leading a Jewish cult that may even have been excuted , none of the miracles have any basis in fact .""",DISAGREE,"""1 . Jesus was : A. a myth ; invented by heretical Jews , he never existed . B. an ordinary man who attracted a following by performing `` tricks `` and making interesting statements ; disengenuos and decieving his followers C. an amazing moral teacher , nothing more D. a complete madman .""","""A . Myth ; Whilst there may have been a person leading a Jewish cult that may even have been excuted , none of the miracles have any basis in fact .""",,
24882,6619,"""I have some questions for everyone here . For example , what is each side trying to prove ? Are the evolution supporters trying to convince others of evolution , or are they trying to defend evolution ?""","""As a Biology teacher , I 'm trying to defend my subject against ignorant abuse . If you ask whether endless exchanges with the wilfully ignorant actually constitute effective defence , I 'll pass .""",DISAGREE,"""I have some questions for everyone here the evolution supporters trying to convince others""","""Biology teacher endless exchanges with the wilfully ignorant""",,
24886,6620,"""No , you 're spreading false information . People interested in the truth try to avoid this . Those given to emotional rhetoric do n't mind one bit if it suits their agenda .""","""Just like the Brady Campaign . Often when trying to paint concealed carry holders as dangerous individuals , most instances they cite either never had a concealed carry permit to begin with , or the matters of the case were instances that lacked mens-rea and were n't crimes to begin with .""",DISAGREE,"""Those given to emotional rhetoric do n't mind one bit if it suits their agenda .""","""most instances they cite either never had a concealed carry permit to begin with , or the matters of the case were instances that lacked mens-rea and were n't crimes to begin with .""",,
24900,6623,"""No , the church is not evolving . Neither is society , language , ethics , morality , or our ability to shop . Only biological populations evolve .""","""Nonsense , societies change over time , therefore they evolve . Only biological populations evolve through natural selection and the theory of evolution only applies to biological populations , but the term `` evolution `` applies to other things too .""",DISAGREE,"""No , the church is not evolving .""","""Nonsense , societies change over time , therefore they evolve .""",,
24920,6627,"""No . The fetus does not have all of these things up and running until birth . The baby needs more than nutrition . It relies on the mother 's anti-bodies for it 's immune system ( even AFTER birth to some degree ) , it does not breath or take in oxygen on it 's own , and none of body systems are developed until late in the pregnancy .""","""well , whatever the case may be , that baby has a full function nervous system and can feel the pain whenever it is aborted . Does that not disturb you ? People always tend to think `` oh the mother is going to go through pain `` BLA BLA BLA .. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BABY THAT IS BEING TORTURED TO DEATH ? cmon .""",DISAGREE,"""fetus does not have all of these things up and running until birth . The baby needs more than nutrition .""","""that baby has a full function nervous system and can feel the pain whenever it is aborted .""",,
24924,6628,"""How about someone abort you ? Would you like that ? May your illicit flame turn Hare Krishna on a Friday afternoon .""","""You know Easy I almost laughed almost . Funny but I 'm already out of the womb and have been for oh .. 21 years 5 months 8 days 2 hours and 5 minutes . Pacific time of course . Oh and I love the voodoo little hocus pocus threat you made . I hear that Dove soap not only moisturizes skin , but also makes great for carving little voodoo figurines , kind of like whittling but with a kick . Just kind of pandering but is n't wishing ill will , or cursing someone like considered witchcraft and therefore a sin ? Guess your one of those `` Special `` Christians who pick from column A and insert into said column B . Boy wish I could change whats a sin and whats not for myself on the fly . Funny how those little frequent flier miles kick in after making so many `` donations `` to the collection box hmm ? Oh lordy lordy business is booming in the house of god ! !""",DISAGREE,"""May your illicit flame turn Hare Krishna on a Friday afternoon""","""Funny but I 'm already out of the womb and have been for oh .. 21 years 5 months 8 days 2 hours and 5 minutes . Pacific time of course""",,
24932,6629,"""Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist .""","""Yes it does , by the definition of existence . We ca n't determine whether something exists or not if we do not define `` existence. `` I define it like this : If something exists , then it can be detected . If something can not be detected , then it does n't exist . Note that the converses are not necessarily true . Theists define `` God `` as something that can not be detected . Therefore , their god does not exist . Pantheists define `` God `` as the universe . Polytheists define their gods as superhumans who live on top of mountains . This proof can not disprove pantheism or polytheism , but it disproves theism .""",DISAGREE,"""Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist .""","""Yes it does , by the definition of existence . We ca n't determine whether something exists or not if we do not define ``""",,
24930,6629,"""Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist .""","""Yes it does , by the definition of existence . We ca n't determine whether something exists or not if we do not define `` existence. `` I define it like this : If something exists , then it can be detected . If something can not be detected , then it does n't exist . Note that the converses are not necessarily true . Theists define `` God `` as something that can not be detected . Therefore , their god does not exist . Pantheists define `` God `` as the universe . Polytheists define their gods as superhumans who live on top of mountains . This proof can not disprove pantheism or polytheism , but it disproves theism .""",DISAGREE,"""Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist .""","""We ca n't determine whether something exists or not if we do not define `` existence. `` I define it like this""",,
24954,6633,"""I 'm not as sad as that . The definition of sad is defending something ( evolution ) that does n't have a leg to stand on anymore ( fossil evidence does n't prove evolution ) . There are that many holes in the evolution theory it 's a joke .""","""Oh God , not again . You 're correct in the fact that the fossil record does n't prove evolution . Fossils , being the lithified remains of long dead organisms , have great problems providing any evidence on thier genetic make-up . What the fossil record does show is cases where , over time , modifications can be seen in animals morphology . There is also the fact you can find animals which are 'almost ' another type of animal . A good example is Synapsids ( otherwise known as 'Mammal-like reptiles ' ) . The fossil record provides data which is best explained by the ToE , rather than 'Goddidit ' . The argument between ToE and ID is not something in which the fossil record can be involved . As far as I can tell , you do n't talk about God as the personalised deity that most mainstream christian traditions talk about . In fact you seem to have a rather 'hippy-ish ' view in that God is an energy . Just so you know , the idea that humans die when seeing Gods goes back at least as far as the ancient Greeks . Zeus killed one of his lovers when she demanded to see him in his true form ( just by the power revealed in him ) . I think she was the mother of Perseus or something .... Just so you know , if God is a force , we 've probably already picked him out and got him down as an unexplained physical constant , and if he 's a spirit , we ca n't pick him up scientifically , and therefore are n't trying to prove him or disprove him . It 's true that we are not hugely advanced in terms of our understanding , but we are hugely advanced beyond 5-600 years ago , when the christians were doing thier best to burn anyone who asked questions . Nowadays we agree that Gallileo was a very smart man , rather than a heretic . Religion still has a place today , but it no longer directs the entire course of human life .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not as sad as that . The definition of sad is defending something ( evolution ) that does n't have a leg to stand on anymore ( fossil evidence does n't prove evolution ) . There are that many holes in the evolution theory it 's a joke .""","""Oh God , not again . You 're correct in the fact that the fossil record does n't prove evolution .""",,
24968,6635,"""BeHereNow : Well , you ’ re just begging the question of what is evidence . You are saying religious belief ( others might say religious knowledge ) is not evidence . If it is scientific , it is evidence . If it is not scientific , it is not evidence . Have I got it right ? Obvious child : If you use the proper definition of faith yes . Faith is a belief in something with no evidence .""","""Well , I certainly never used the word faith , but since you brought it up , what do you put your faith in ? What is it you believe in with no evidence ? Could it be science ? What is your evidence that science is true , except more science ? Scientific evidence which supports science is circular reasoning . It is no different than using the bible to support the bible . The bible is evidence for creationism , if you accept the bible as literally true . And there are many reasons ( mostly non-scientific ) to accept the bible as true . Every belief system is supported by pillars of belief , ultimately based on faith . Some of these belief systems have pillars that are short , and solid , and other systems are supported by pillars that are tall and spindly . Each of us intuits one or more pillars to be true , and our belief system follows . You have intuited science to be true , and the resulting belief system finds the bible to be based on faith . Others have intuited the bible to be true , and the resulting belief system finds science to be based on faith . I intuit that you each have it half right , combining faith and evidence to arrive at your belief system .""",DISAGREE,"""you ’ re just begging the question of what is evidence . You are saying religious belief ( others might say religious knowledge ) is not evidence .""","""what do you put your faith in ? What is it you believe in with no evidence ? Could it be science ?""",,
24969,6635,"""BeHereNow : Well , you ’ re just begging the question of what is evidence . You are saying religious belief ( others might say religious knowledge ) is not evidence . If it is scientific , it is evidence . If it is not scientific , it is not evidence . Have I got it right ? Obvious child : If you use the proper definition of faith yes . Faith is a belief in something with no evidence .""","""Well , I certainly never used the word faith , but since you brought it up , what do you put your faith in ? What is it you believe in with no evidence ? Could it be science ? What is your evidence that science is true , except more science ? Scientific evidence which supports science is circular reasoning . It is no different than using the bible to support the bible . The bible is evidence for creationism , if you accept the bible as literally true . And there are many reasons ( mostly non-scientific ) to accept the bible as true . Every belief system is supported by pillars of belief , ultimately based on faith . Some of these belief systems have pillars that are short , and solid , and other systems are supported by pillars that are tall and spindly . Each of us intuits one or more pillars to be true , and our belief system follows . You have intuited science to be true , and the resulting belief system finds the bible to be based on faith . Others have intuited the bible to be true , and the resulting belief system finds science to be based on faith . I intuit that you each have it half right , combining faith and evidence to arrive at your belief system .""",DISAGREE,"""you ’ re just begging the question of what is evidence .""","""You have intuited science to be true , and the resulting belief system finds the bible to be based on faith .""",,
24971,6636,"""... here is what is hard to understand about that ; In Matthew , 12:30 , Jesus says `` He who is not with me is against me , and he who does not gather with me scatters `` .""","""But Miller is with Jesus ( and by extension , you ) : he says that God exists and that Christianity is true . Or , if you insist that he 's against you , you 're left with this conundrum : You call Miller and theistic evolutionists incorrect , and he calls you and anti-evolutionists incorrect ; why is your position any more logical than his ? Regarding your citation about atheists using evolutionary findings to support their concepts , you omit the remainder of the paragraph . Shame on you , marc , for your quote mine . Miller clearly continues with `` philosophical pronouncements `` that many atheists do not forward . Over the following three paragraphs , he examines a single philosophical insinuation -- not a plethora of them -- and then moves beyond `` atheistic philosophical pronouncements. ``""",DISAGREE,"""here is what is hard to understand about that ; In Matthew , 12:30 , Jesus says `` He who is not with me is against me , and he who does not gather with me scatters ``""","""But Miller is with Jesus ( and by extension , you ) : he says that God exists and that Christianity is true . Or , if you insist that he 's against you , you 're left with this conundrum : You call Miller and theistic evolutionists incorrect , and he calls you and anti-evolutionists incorrect ;""",,
24982,6645,"""Bush Is The Man , how can you question the story aganist Bush yet spin and ignore stories with the same amount of evidence aganist Kerry ?""","""Because there is evidence against Kerry . They proved him wrong about Cambodia , the atrocities that did n't occur , him throwing his medals away , etc . I have only seen 1 source to back up the Bush assumption that his girlfriend had an abortion . There is no evidence of medical records , the girlfriend coming out , any credible witnesses , etc . That 's why . Did you hear Kerry 's latest flip flop ? Two weeks ago , at an interview with ABC , Kerry said he wanted to move US troops out of Europe and the Korean peninsula . Then the other day , just 2 days after Bush said he wanted to move 12,000 troops out of Korea in the next 10 years , Kerry says that is n't what we need to do . Now , just 2 weeks after saying he wanted to remove troops from Korea , he changes his mind and says removing troops from Korea is a bad idea . Can you reasonably change your mind about something like that in 2 weeks ? Is he a pathological liar or does he just say the opposite of everything Bush says ?""",DISAGREE,"""ignore stories with the same amount of evidence aganist Kerry ?""","""Because there is evidence against Kerry .""",,
24988,6646,"""To Ooaman ; This is evolution as observed across a span of a couple of generations , which is the unit that evolutionary change occurs . Obviously a generation of a small bird is n't as long as it is for us , for example .""","""Oh , okay , I understand it now . I still think it sounds quick but then again , I 'm not a member of the bird family .""",AGREE,"""This is evolution as observed across a span of a couple of generations ,""","""I understand it now . I still think it sounds quick but then again""",,
24996,6648,"""funny how darwinists , when presented with evidence that lifeforms are intelligent and dynamic -- which refutes their mechanistic theory -- turn around claim it as evidence for their theory . Go figure . I guess that 's about all they can do at this point : play dumb and hope nobody notices .""","""Sport , if life-forms - including bacteria - are 'intelligent and dynamic ' , why does genetic engineering work ? Why do n't these 'intelligent and dynamic ' bacteria reject or ignore the foreign DNA and go on working as before ?""",DISAGREE,"""when presented with evidence that lifeforms are intelligent and dynamic -- which refutes their mechanistic theory -- turn around claim it as evidence for their theory .""","""if life-forms - including bacteria - are 'intelligent and dynamic ' , why does genetic engineering work ? Why do n't these 'intelligent and dynamic ' bacteria reject""",,
25008,6650,"""* * If you are talking to me , I did read it -- that 's why I posted it .""","""In that case , I 'm wondering why you did n't notice that it provided evidence for an aspect of evolutionary theory ... Basically , it provided evidence that a previous ad-hoc hypothesis was unnecessary to explain the development of hands and feet . I 'd summarize the rest of the article for you , but you ought to understand it already .""",DISAGREE,"""I did read it -- that 's why I posted it .""","""I 'd summarize the rest of the article for you , but you ought to understand it already .""",,
25015,6651,"""What if the answer to that was 0 ? You have begged the question .""","""Then you would have to be believe that out of the supposed millions upon millions of people who walked the Earth none of them were pregnant and there were no newborns either . Then again , to be Christian , you also have to believe the world was created in 7 days and their was a Biblical great flood too . The best part about writing a fairytale is that the author gets to make up everything as they go along .""",DISAGREE,"""What if the answer to that was 0 ? You have begged the question .""","""Then you would have to be believe that out of the supposed millions upon millions of people who walked the Earth none of them were pregnant and there were no newborns""",,
25011,6651,"""What if the answer to that was 0 ? You have begged the question .""","""Then you would have to be believe that out of the supposed millions upon millions of people who walked the Earth none of them were pregnant and there were no newborns either . Then again , to be Christian , you also have to believe the world was created in 7 days and their was a Biblical great flood too . The best part about writing a fairytale is that the author gets to make up everything as they go along .""",DISAGREE,"""What if the answer to that was 0 ? You have begged the question .""","""to be Christian , you also have to believe the world was created in 7 days and their was a Biblical great flood too . the author gets to make up everything as they go along""",,
25027,6653,"""Genomes are littered with nonfunctional pseudogenes , faulty duplicates of functional genes that do nothing , while their functional cousins ( the word does n't even need scare quotes ) get on with their business in a different part of the same genome . And there 's lots more DNA that does n't even deserve the name pseudogene . It , too , is derived by duplication , but not duplication of functional genes . It consists of multiple copies of junk , `` tandem repeats `` , and other nonsense which may be useful for forensic detectives but which does n't seem to be used in the body itself .""","""Luckily science moves forward and these arguments from ignorance get left behind and the proponents of these arguments fade into history as proponents of ignorance trying to sell meaningless metaphysics . Junk DNA is a myth . Examples abound of research finding fascinating functions for these previously thought non-functional parts of the genome ( out of ignorance and bad metaphysics -- Dawkins : `` And there 's lots more DNA that does n't even deserve the name pseudogene . '' ) . Model unravels rules that govern how genes are switched on and off""",DISAGREE,"""nonfunctional pseudogenes DNA `` tandem repeats `` , forensic detectives""","""meaningless metaphysics fascinating functions metaphysics -- Dawkins pseudogene unravels""",,
25033,6654,"""abortion is bad , there should n't be a need for it in the perfect world , but i 'm not going to force my morality down your throat and force you to abide to MY principals while demanding you abandon your own .""","""Why is abortion bad ?""",DISAGREE,"""abortion is bad""","""Why is abortion bad ?""",,
25034,6654,"""abortion is bad , there should n't be a need for it in the perfect world , but i 'm not going to force my morality down your throat and force you to abide to MY principals while demanding you abandon your own .""","""Why is abortion bad ?""",DISAGREE,"""i 'm not going to force my morality down your throat and force you to abide to MY principals while demanding you abandon your own .""","""Why is abortion bad ?""",,
25029,6654,"""abortion is bad , there should n't be a need for it in the perfect world , but i 'm not going to force my morality down your throat and force you to abide to MY principals while demanding you abandon your own .""","""Why is abortion bad ?""",DISAGREE,"""abide demanding abandon""","""abortion bad ?""",,
25038,6655,"""James Madison in Federalist 51 explained , `` In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this : You must first enable the government to control the governed , and in the next place , oblige it to control itself. ``""","""I believe you are misinterpreting Mr. Madison . James Madison made it clear throughout his writings that a powerful government was something to be worried about and carefully watched . But , lets say your right . Where do you draw the line ? For example : seeing as religion has most likely killed more people than cancer , under your theory , what is to stop government from outlawing organized religion ? You once told me you were studied in the ways of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young , would you be willing to give up your freedom of religion to protect other freedoms ?""",DISAGREE,"""James Madison in Federalist 51 explained , `` In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this : You must first enable the government to control the governed , and in the next place , oblige it to control itself. ``""","""I believe you are misinterpreting Mr. Madison . James Madison made it clear throughout his writings that a powerful government was something to be worried about and carefully watched""",,
25042,6656,"""Jesus was then what he is now : the Logos of God ( Philo , quis rerum divinarum heres 42.405 ) , the heavenly High Priest ( Hebrews ) , the culmination of God ’ s eternal plan ( Ro . 16:25 ) , the secret mystery only now , after his sacrifice , revealed through revelation and scripture ( 1 Cor 2:6-13 ) . A . # 1 is above . The Jesus myth came out of Hellenistic Judaism already heavily imbued with the ideas of the suffering servant ( Isaiah 53 ) and the son of God subject to a shameful death ( Wisdom of Solomon  “ Let us condemn him with a shameful death ” ) . Paul refers to the  “ archons ” , the evil heavenly rulers of the age , as those who crucified Jesus ( 1 Cor 2:8 ) and extols the justice of the Romans ( Ro . 13:1-3 ) . The earliest layers of Q material do not refer to a death or resurrection ( Kloppenborg ) . No earthly Jesus , no crucifixion , no death . It is all myth , man . We do n't know for sure . Traditionally thought to be Homer but is probably from oral tradition . Single authorship itself is disputed . Beyond that , I do n't know much about it . What is your point in asking this question ?""","""Thank you for your reply .""",DISAGREE,"""Jesus was then what he is now : the Logos of God ( Philo , quis rerum divinarum heres 42.405 ) , the heavenly High Priest ( Hebrews ) , the culmination of God ’ s eternal plan ( Ro . 16:25 ) , the secret mystery only now , after his sacrifice , revealed through revelation and scripture ( 1 Cor 2:6-13 ) . A . # 1 is""","""Thank you for your reply .""",,
25061,6658,"""From www.georgewbush.com This is nothing but a government giveaway of dynamic proportions . It 's not only going to low-income uninsured - it 's going to people who are currently employed and actually HAVE insurance . How much money are we talking here ? What 's comes after TTTTTrillions . Gazillions ?""","""So you think Bush 's plan will involve increased government of dynamic proportions , and Kerry 's plan will not ? And you ask if I 'M watching the news ?""",DISAGREE,"""This is nothing but a government giveaway of dynamic proportions .""","""you think Bush 's plan will involve increased government of dynamic proportions ,""",,
25078,6660,"""YouTube - Armed Citizen - Cape Girardeau , Missouri So a sex offender rapes a 57 year old woman , and five days later he comes back , cuts her electricity , and she shoots him with a shotgun and kills him . She does n't face any charges for her actions . I consider that justice served .""","""I agree , but the libs would weep and call her a murderer . I suppose they 'd rather have her submit to this vile person . They support pacifism , and in New York , she 'd be in prison . Good thing people in my area have common sense .""",AGREE,"""a sex offender rapes a 57 year old woman , and five days later he comes back , cuts her electricity , and she shoots him with a shotgun and kills him . She does n't face any charges for her actions . I consider that justice served .""","""I agree""",,
25104,6663,"""Sigma , I tried to PM this to you but it wouldnt let me because it was too long .""","""I 'm not exactly sure your point with this article . Was it merely to show that pro-choice groups exaggerate claims ? That they use emotional rhetoric to sway people to their side ? Trust me , you have told me nothing new . In fact , I am somewhat amused that you pointed this out , given that pro-life groups are guilty of all this and more . It said : Although the thought of finding a deceased young woman with a bloody coat hanger dangling between her legs is -- to say the least -- unpleasant , powerful and emotionally charged rhetoric does not a good argument make . I almost peed myself laughing when I read this . Whatever powerful , emotional images you believe pro-choice are guilty of , pro-life groups are many times worse . What is the mental image of a deceased young woman compared to the physical picture of bloody aborted fetus ' ? I have seen pro-life groups holding huge posters outside high-schools , and pro-life groups hold them up in front of clinics . How much do you want to bet that the fellow here would defend one while attacking the other ? The article speaks of fallacies yet fails to mention the statement of `` abortion is wrong because it 's murder ! `` that pro-life people seem very fond of . This is the exact fallacy the article mentions , using an unproven point ( abortion is murder ) to hold up an unproven point ( abortion is wrong ) . I point this out not to absolve pro-choice groups of guilt , but to say : Before pointing fingers , make sure your own house is in order . This entire article is also something of a strawman argument as well . The argument that illegal abortions will almost inevitably occur if abortion is banned is not a justification for legal abortions ( per se ) . As I see it , since illegal abortions will almost inevitably occur if abortions are banned , the complaint is that pro-life people would rather see more women hurt ( and yes , more women are hurt with illegal abortion than legal ) than actually solve the problems with society . To ban abortion and declare the problem solved is extremely irresponsible and does nothing to help society or women . If you would , chloe , please link to the study the article mentions about the number of illegal abortions ? IÂ ’ m amazed they managed to eek out numbers , given that not even the CDC has exact figures since illegal abortions were not tracked . The most compelling evidence IÂ ’ ve seen looked at the birth rates for various ethnic groups the years previous to abortion being legal to the years after , corrected for various factors such as better birth control methods . They found little change in the birth rates , indicating the number of abortions most likely did not increase or decrease . Yes , I know pro-choice groups mislead with stats and figures . This is nothing new , but I feel it is dishonest to point this out without acknowledging your own groups shortcomings in the same area .""",DISAGREE,"""Sigma , I tried to PM this to you but it wouldnt let me because it was too long .""","""I 'm not exactly sure your point with this article . Was it merely to show that pro-choice groups exaggerate claims ? ``""",,
25119,6664,"""You missed the point ! Earlier in Life , Freud described God as a Father wish fullfilment notion . Later in Life , Freud condicted himself and saluted the Swiss Theologian AND God ! Now , look , we all evolve , and grow our childish beliefs ( e.g . atheism ) I will go further , NO one is an Atheist on their Death bed or in a Fowhole as the WWII guys knew all too well .""","""Sorry , but I have to say this . Who the hell gives a flaming turd what Freud thought ? He was a coke head quack who pulled a bunch of bunk out of his butt and called it psychotherapy . ..""",DISAGREE,"""Freud described God as a Father wish fullfilment notion . Later in Life , Freud condicted himself and saluted the Swiss Theologian AND God""","""Who the hell gives a flaming turd what Freud thought ?""",,
25123,6665,"""Well your right , Waxy There is no real `` logic `` to my post , because if one thinks about the art of debating religion , the concept of logic goes out the window . A true believer has only the bible to support their beliefs , they can not go to a lab or science room and prove their beliefs on a table , or use cobalt to date religous belief , so their belief is all based on unseen faith . I have only a high school education , therefore I do not have the vocabulary the master debators use on here , nor the artistic way of putting together sentences . So bear with me please , while I try to explain my post a little better .... Since you put me in the spotlight here , I will use you , with great respect to you of course , as my point of debate . You have went on record here stating many times , that you do not believe in a `` god `` the way we believers do . Now with that notion in mind , why do you and others hang out debating on a religous forum ? ? In case you havent noticed , the posts against the notion of God and Christianity , greatly outnumber the posts of the believers . Is that not a interesting fact when you think about it ? I dont believe in a lot of things that I am exposed to in my walk though life here on earth , so I have NO interest in trying to prove those things wrong , THAT I feel have no validity . Clear as mud now , ? ?""","""I think there 's a few points to be made here - 1 ) This is a forum specifically for the purpose of discussing God and religion . Thousands , hundred 's of thousands , maybe even billions of people who do n't believe in God have n't bothered to seek it out , they have no interest , it attracts those that do have an interest in learning how and why others think and do as they do . 2 ) Discussing something , no matter what the reason or how much it is discussed , does not lend any validity to what is being discussed . There is an infinite number of examples I could give to illustrate that point . Take in a sci-fi convention some time as a prime example . 3 ) I do n't see so much the discussion of `` is there a God/is n't there a God `` , as I do the discussion of religion and the Bible . That is a very important distinction . Religion is very real , and affects all of us , whether we are believers in it or not . Whether or not Bigfoot exists , or the Klingons are invading someone , has no bearing whatsoever on my life or reality , religion does . I think that is the reason you see such fervent discussion and rejection of Christianity on forums like this . Why the large outcry ? Those in the minority always tend to be more vocal , they have to be , or they 'd simply be overwhelmed by the `` silent `` majority . Waxy P.S . Do n't sell yourself short , you more than hold your own on these forums .""",DISAGREE,"""debating religion , the concept of logic goes out the window A true believer has only the bible to support their beliefs , based on unseen faith""","""do n't believe in God have n't bothered to seek it out , they have no interest , does not lend any validity Religion is very real , and affects all of us , whether we are believers in it or not .""",,
25126,6665,"""Well your right , Waxy There is no real `` logic `` to my post , because if one thinks about the art of debating religion , the concept of logic goes out the window . A true believer has only the bible to support their beliefs , they can not go to a lab or science room and prove their beliefs on a table , or use cobalt to date religous belief , so their belief is all based on unseen faith . I have only a high school education , therefore I do not have the vocabulary the master debators use on here , nor the artistic way of putting together sentences . So bear with me please , while I try to explain my post a little better .... Since you put me in the spotlight here , I will use you , with great respect to you of course , as my point of debate . You have went on record here stating many times , that you do not believe in a `` god `` the way we believers do . Now with that notion in mind , why do you and others hang out debating on a religous forum ? ? In case you havent noticed , the posts against the notion of God and Christianity , greatly outnumber the posts of the believers . Is that not a interesting fact when you think about it ? I dont believe in a lot of things that I am exposed to in my walk though life here on earth , so I have NO interest in trying to prove those things wrong , THAT I feel have no validity . Clear as mud now , ? ?""","""I think there 's a few points to be made here - 1 ) This is a forum specifically for the purpose of discussing God and religion . Thousands , hundred 's of thousands , maybe even billions of people who do n't believe in God have n't bothered to seek it out , they have no interest , it attracts those that do have an interest in learning how and why others think and do as they do . 2 ) Discussing something , no matter what the reason or how much it is discussed , does not lend any validity to what is being discussed . There is an infinite number of examples I could give to illustrate that point . Take in a sci-fi convention some time as a prime example . 3 ) I do n't see so much the discussion of `` is there a God/is n't there a God `` , as I do the discussion of religion and the Bible . That is a very important distinction . Religion is very real , and affects all of us , whether we are believers in it or not . Whether or not Bigfoot exists , or the Klingons are invading someone , has no bearing whatsoever on my life or reality , religion does . I think that is the reason you see such fervent discussion and rejection of Christianity on forums like this . Why the large outcry ? Those in the minority always tend to be more vocal , they have to be , or they 'd simply be overwhelmed by the `` silent `` majority . Waxy P.S . Do n't sell yourself short , you more than hold your own on these forums .""",DISAGREE,"""You have went on record here stating many times , that you do not believe in a `` god `` the way we believers do .""","""I do n't see so much the discussion of `` is there a God/is n't there a God `` , as I do the discussion of religion and the Bible""",,
25141,6667,"""1. legal relationship between spouses : a legally recognized relationship , established by a civil or religious ceremony , between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners 2. specific marriage relationship : a married relationship between two people , or a somebody 's relationship with his or her spouse""","""American Heritage http : //www.bartleby.com/61/2/M0120200.html""",DISAGREE,"""a legally recognized relationship , established by a civil or religious ceremony , between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners""","""American Heritage http : //www.bartleby.com/61/2/M0120200.html""",,
25161,6669,"""I 've just done a bit of hunting around , and I ca n't find anything to say Jerome had anything to do with the compilation of the Bible , only the translation of the Latin vulgate , which I 'll gladly admit is not an accurate translation . As for why I have argued the point , I think the truth is important , and I think it 's two easy to take a blanket `` oh , it was all political so we ca n't trust any of it `` approach to the Bible , and this is done largely in a manner that resembles special pleading . No other historical source or collection of sources is questionned with anything like this level of intensity or scepticism . It smacks of an attempt to justify ones own disbelief by discrediting the evidence . It does n't seem to be about a search for the truth , only to justify a preconcieved position .""","""The sources state that Jerome declared three books to be apocryphal , and his correspondence includes replies to claims that his rejection of those books was political . If he was n't involved in the selection why would he write that ? If I wanted a justification for disbelief I 'd quote Galileo , it 's much easier . This is mainly about leveling the playing field with SoC , had he bothered to reply .""",DISAGREE,"""I 've just done a bit of hunting around , and I ca n't find anything to say Jerome had anything to do""","""If he was n't involved in the selection why would he write that ?""",,
25185,6671,"""Powerful opponents of eco-terrorism are mounting the nation 's most formidable campaign against the homegrown sabotage . But the crime wave they hope to quell -- a 2½-year escalation of arsons and property destruction -- subsided last summer , perhaps due to law enforcement crackdowns . A congressional subcommittee held a hearing on eco-terrorism last month in which lawmakers , keyed up about terrorists since the Sept. 11 attacks , likened America 's green underground to al-Qaida . An FBI official testified that the Earth Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Front had become the nation 's most active and destructive domestic terrorist groups .""","""Radio Towers Bulldozed by Eco-Terrorists Tuesday September 8 , 2009""",DISAGREE,"""Powerful opponents of eco-terrorism are mounting the nation 's most formidable campaign against the homegrown sabotage . But the crime wave they hope to quell -- a 2½-year escalation of arsons and property destruction -- subsided last summer , perhaps due to law enforcement""","""Radio Towers Bulldozed by Eco-Terrorists Tuesday September 8 , 2009""",,
25193,6679,"""`` Certainly , I think it would be fair to say that it would be more likely for a court decision to impose the recognition of same-sex marriage from Massachusetts on another state in the event of the repeal of D.O.M.A. , `` Pepperdine Law Prof. Douglas Kmiec told ABC News .""","""I think this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court . But that of course is the fear that many have , i.e. , that gay marriage would be imposed via judicial fiat ( whether at the state or federal level ) rather than through legislative means .""",DISAGREE,"""more likely for a court decision to impose the recognition of same-sex marriage from Massachusetts on another state in the event of the repeal of .""","""I think this is unlikely under the current makeup of the Supreme Court But that of course is the fear that many have , i.e. , that gay marriage would be imposed via judicial fiat""",,
25211,6682,"""Forget law abiding , convicted felons on death row are free to marry if they so desire . I have never found anything wrong with that either . At the end of the day marriage deals with the two consenting adults who have decided to legally document their partnership .""","""I think you 're right , but prisoners usually marry women , do n't they ?""",DISAGREE,"""At the end of the day marriage deals with the two consenting adults who have decided to legally document their partnership .""","""I think you 're right , but prisoners usually marry women , do n't they ?""",,
25218,6683,"""Especially since your first claim was pretty outrageous . Laws will exist whether religion does or not . Religion is similar to a book of laws although that does n't mean that it existed before the laws did . Trying to even say humans would n't exist without God should n't even be brought up . The Christian God that is described in the Bible might not even exist . The Bible is flawed at the very least meaning doubt has to be placed in anything written in it that is n't provable .""","""Again , a perspective problem . I do believe that man would not be here to govern without God , so our argument goes deeper into a realm where I would have to convince you that there is a God , or you would have to convince me that there is no God . I really do n't think we are going to get anywhere from this angle . Just too many differences in beliefs .""",DISAGREE,"""The Christian God that is described in the Bible might not even exist .""","""I would have to convince you that there is a God""",,
25215,6683,"""Especially since your first claim was pretty outrageous . Laws will exist whether religion does or not . Religion is similar to a book of laws although that does n't mean that it existed before the laws did . Trying to even say humans would n't exist without God should n't even be brought up . The Christian God that is described in the Bible might not even exist . The Bible is flawed at the very least meaning doubt has to be placed in anything written in it that is n't provable .""","""Again , a perspective problem . I do believe that man would not be here to govern without God , so our argument goes deeper into a realm where I would have to convince you that there is a God , or you would have to convince me that there is no God . I really do n't think we are going to get anywhere from this angle . Just too many differences in beliefs .""",DISAGREE,"""your first claim was pretty outrageous .""","""a perspective problem .""",,
25217,6683,"""Especially since your first claim was pretty outrageous . Laws will exist whether religion does or not . Religion is similar to a book of laws although that does n't mean that it existed before the laws did . Trying to even say humans would n't exist without God should n't even be brought up . The Christian God that is described in the Bible might not even exist . The Bible is flawed at the very least meaning doubt has to be placed in anything written in it that is n't provable .""","""Again , a perspective problem . I do believe that man would not be here to govern without God , so our argument goes deeper into a realm where I would have to convince you that there is a God , or you would have to convince me that there is no God . I really do n't think we are going to get anywhere from this angle . Just too many differences in beliefs .""",DISAGREE,"""The Christian God that is described in the Bible might not even exist .""","""do believe that man would not be here to govern without God , so our argument goes deeper into a realm where I would have to convince you that there is a God""",,
25226,6684,"""The people should decide becasue that is democracy . There have been times which democracy has failed but when the courts intiate against the people . The people have the right to change the constitution when courts abuse their poswers . They ca n't violate separation of powers and not expect the people to change it .""","""Actually it 's a Republic . Shall we put your marriage to the vote ?""",DISAGREE,"""There have been times which democracy has failed but when the courts intiate against the people . The people have the right to change the constitution""","""Shall we put your marriage to the vote ?""",,
25225,6684,"""The people should decide becasue that is democracy . There have been times which democracy has failed but when the courts intiate against the people . The people have the right to change the constitution when courts abuse their poswers . They ca n't violate separation of powers and not expect the people to change it .""","""Actually it 's a Republic . Shall we put your marriage to the vote ?""",DISAGREE,"""that is democracy .""","""Actually it 's a Republic .""",,
25224,6684,"""The people should decide becasue that is democracy . There have been times which democracy has failed but when the courts intiate against the people . The people have the right to change the constitution when courts abuse their poswers . They ca n't violate separation of powers and not expect the people to change it .""","""Actually it 's a Republic . Shall we put your marriage to the vote ?""",DISAGREE,"""The people should decide becasue that is democracy .""","""Actually it 's a Republic . Shall we put your marriage to the vote ?""",,
25236,6694,"""Yet again , Obama proves not to be the gay pride messiah that gay pride proponents thought they were voting for ... `` WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The Obama administration on Friday urged a U.S. court to dismiss a lawsuit by gay married couples from Massachusetts who say they were unlawfully denied federal marriage benefits . President Barack Obama won strong support from gays during his presidential campaign and has pressed for repealing the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act that bars the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages . But the gay community has been angered by the Obama administration 's defense of the law in court proceedings . '' Obama admin : dismiss gay couple benefits lawsuit | U.S. | Reuters Bet you anything the usual apologists here will spin it to try and find some way to still give him the benefit of the doubt .""","""You mean like you try to spin things to try to give REPUBLICANS the benefit of a doubt on gay rights issues where none is deserved ? It 's interesting where you chose to cut-and-paste the article . The VERY NEXT STATEMENT includes `` the other side of the story `` Justice Department officials say they are obligated to defend federal statutes when they are challenged.Obama admin : dismiss gay couple benefits lawsuit | U.S. | Reuters Obama has already put himself on record on his stance on DOMA by VOTING AGAINST it . HE PERSONALLY supports its repeal . But HE PERSONALLY is not `` the justice department `` . If a bill is made into law , elected officials ca n't pick and choose how to do their job and take their personal considerations into account in enforcement . I object to people taking it upon themselves to ignore the law when they are county clerks asked to perform gay marriage in areas where it is legal . When the courts ruled that Gavin Newsome 's gay marriages were illegal and not binding , that was the proper ruling there too . When it comes to the justice department , it is their job to argue for the existing law . Period . I do n't know why that is so difficult for some . I do n't know why some pretend a refusal to violate their job position is somehow a demonstration of unmitigated support for what their job requires them to do .""",DISAGREE,"""Obama proves not to be the gay pride messiah that gay pride proponents thought they were voting for ...""","""You mean like you try to spin things to try to give REPUBLICANS the benefit of a doubt on gay rights issues where none is deserved ?""",,
25250,6698,"""Completely seperate from my beliefs on abortion , I honest to god believe there should be some form of parental licensing .""","""but then there would be less people rather than more , and God wants more . An unfertilised egg is a pre-Abortion and is a murder . God bless .""",DISAGREE,"""parental licensing""","""but then there would be less people rather than more God wants more""",,
25270,6701,"""& # 8220 ; Gun Laws of America is 384 pages of just the federal statutes that regulate guns & # 8212 ; more than 88,000 words . Additionally , the associated federal regulations interpreting these laws are even larger . Minimum penalty for a violation is typically 5 years in federal prison for every offense . It is estimated that there are between 22,000 and 30,000 gun laws on the books in America . Those laws include restrictions on possession , carry , distribution , storage , transfer , manufacture , sale , ownership , importation , use and more . ( It talks about ) Federal agents can wiretap citizens for gun crimes , a federal law banning qualified principals , teachers and parents from defending them with guns People have collectively spent untold millions of dollars in legal fees defending themselves in court against charges that involved their guns There are laws in some states mandating that guns in people & # 8217 ; s homes ( private property ) be stored according to government edicts Gun buyers must go through background checks , waiting periods , and get licenses if they wish to carry concealed Self-defense with a firearm is banned in many cities and states in America .""","""And we have a whole Federal Agency , which is part to the FBI , regulating one of our Constitutional Bill of Rights which is called a First Right , a Fundamental Right an Inalienable and essential right , named the BATF . And YET even all of this is not enough for you guys . And the purpose of your post is , YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY EVEN MORE of our Constitutional Rights !""",DISAGREE,"""22,000 and 30,000 gun laws in America restrictions on possession carry distribution storage transfer manufacture sale ownership importation use background checks""","""our First Right Fundamental Right Inalienable essential right you guys the purpose of your post YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY Rights !""",,
25302,6705,"""An example where both natural selection and mutations work together to enable a creature to survive also results in a loss of genetic information . Consider that flightless bird in the Galapagos Islands , oh , what is it 's name ? I think it is called something like the flightless conrade .""","""Oh goody . Some more of your well informed opinion based on wishful thinking , no research and even less actual thought . Probably the bird you are talking about is the Cormorant ( Nannopterum harrisi ) . Yes , it is flightless because it has no need to fly . There were no natural preditors in the Galapagos and the bird is a sea bird . It swims and eats fish . It 's wings are much reduced because it swims by kicking rather than by `` flying `` through the water like a penguin . Like the penguin it is a diving bird .""",DISAGREE,"""An example where both natural selection and mutations work together to enable a creature to survive also results in a loss of genetic information .""","""no research and even less actual thought""",,
25319,6707,"""Not all of them .""","""Correction : hardly any of them . This is just another lame attempt to use the `` guilt by association `` BS .""",DISAGREE,"""Not all of them .""","""Correction : hardly any of them""",,
25326,6708,"""We must take it upon ourselves to set right and heal and care for all our citizens . It is not a question of rights in my opinion , but a moral obligation .""","""Well then just rescind the OP and we can discuss this within those parameters ( which you have unfortunately already dismissed in your conversation with JP in 31 ; `` This is an endeavor not of a voluntary nature but an effort to fix a crumbling system that is bankrupting and jeopardizing the health and well being of a majority of Americans. `` )""",DISAGREE,"""set right and heal and care for all our citizens .""","""an endeavor not of a voluntary nature but an effort to fix a crumbling system that is bankrupting""",,
25335,6709,"""it ought but it wo n't , at least not the gun fetishists in this forum , who IMHO are prisoners of their ignorance , their fears , their insecurity . They are simply insane and no dialogue is possible with them . They are immune to reason .""","""Look what is talking about insane , immune to reason , a prisnor of his own giant ignorance , slavery fetishist and one of the comic relief 3 stooges . You might have a dialogue but then insult is n't part of one . No one gives a rat 's patoot about your opinion . If it were your country maybe they would but I doubt it . Mean while eat your heart out as you rail in fear about us buying and keeping arms .""",DISAGREE,"""prisoners of their ignorance , their fears , their insecurity They are simply insane and no dialogue is possible with them .""","""Look what is talking about insane , immune to reason , a prisnor of his own giant ignorance , slavery fetishist and one of the comic relief 3 stooges . You might have a dialogue but then insult is n't part of one .""",,
25340,6709,"""it ought but it wo n't , at least not the gun fetishists in this forum , who IMHO are prisoners of their ignorance , their fears , their insecurity . They are simply insane and no dialogue is possible with them . They are immune to reason .""","""Look what is talking about insane , immune to reason , a prisnor of his own giant ignorance , slavery fetishist and one of the comic relief 3 stooges . You might have a dialogue but then insult is n't part of one . No one gives a rat 's patoot about your opinion . If it were your country maybe they would but I doubt it . Mean while eat your heart out as you rail in fear about us buying and keeping arms .""",DISAGREE,"""it ought but it wo n't , at least not the gun fetishists""","""Look what is talking about insane , immune to reason , a prisnor""",,
25334,6709,"""it ought but it wo n't , at least not the gun fetishists in this forum , who IMHO are prisoners of their ignorance , their fears , their insecurity . They are simply insane and no dialogue is possible with them . They are immune to reason .""","""Look what is talking about insane , immune to reason , a prisnor of his own giant ignorance , slavery fetishist and one of the comic relief 3 stooges . You might have a dialogue but then insult is n't part of one . No one gives a rat 's patoot about your opinion . If it were your country maybe they would but I doubt it . Mean while eat your heart out as you rail in fear about us buying and keeping arms .""",DISAGREE,"""least not the gun fetishists in this forum , who IMHO are prisoners of their ignorance , their fears , their insecurity""","""immune to reason , a prisnor of his own giant ignorance , slavery fetishist and one of the comic relief 3 stooges .""",,
25344,6710,"""3 . Therefore abortion is wrong .""","""Nope .""",DISAGREE,"""abortion is wrong .""","""Nope .""",,
25371,6713,"""600 ? Oh really ? Looks like the following scriptures are vague enough that they could apply to anything and nothing at the same time . Making vague enough comments can easily look prophetic . The fact that there are n't specifics is a key failure in your argument . If the bible was truly prophetic and scientifically accurate , terms that would easily be seen as represenativive of the natural force would be found everywhere , yet they are not . You are talking a little and making it to be far more then it is . Once again , anything vague enough can be taken for anything in any light under any condition .""","""Well , I guess you can refuse to see something that 's pretty obvious . It 's up to you .""",DISAGREE,"""Looks like the following scriptures are vague enough that they could apply to anything and nothing at the same time .""","""I guess you can refuse to see something that 's pretty obvious""",,
25377,6714,"""`` I think the school and the district made a terrible , terrible judgment , `` he told the Times. ``""","""Because they let the GSA act like any other club with the same amount of rights and lack of adminstration interference ?""",DISAGREE,"""school and the district terrible judgment""","""Because they let the GSA act like any other club with the same amount of rights and lack of adminstration interference ?""",,
25384,6715,"""Personally , I do n't have a problem with a single thing you ( Chuz Life ) said . You made your CHOICE , and we in the Pro-Choice camp respect your right to choose .""","""Good , we both agree then that the issue of legality concerning elective abortions is a little more complex than just the simple matter of a persons right to make a `` choice. ``""",AGREE,"""Personally , I do n't have a problem with a single thing you ( Chuz Life ) said . You made your CHOICE , and we in the Pro-Choice camp respect your right to choose""","""Good , we both agree then that the issue of legality concerning elective abortions is a little more complex than just the simple matter of a persons right to make a `` choice. ``""",,
25412,6719,"""* * Just rece8ived a threat of banning from a 'moderator ' . Why ? Apparently because 1 or more darwinists have complained to him that I refuse to learn about evolution . This , of course , is a complete crock , butr apparently the 'mod ' never bothered to check it out before leaping to do the dawinist 's bidding . The fact is that I know more about 'evolution ' than most of the members , and I never stop searching for web material that will help me to learn more . There is , so far as I am aware , no regulation that says any person posting to the 'evolution ' forum must have , or be in the process of obtaining , a recognised degree in evolutionary biology , genetics , biochemistry , molecular biology , or kindred field of study . The fact that none of the darwinists in this forum is capable of intellibly explaining the basic mechanics behind his/her gene-based , genetic determinist , RMNS hypothesis of evolution 's driving force/cause/mechanism is certainly no fault of mine , or anyone save themselves . That is their problem , and if they can not sell their notion because they can not explain it in empirical terms , that should be their concern and nobody else 's . But for them to try and reverse the situation by p [ retending that their incompetence is my laziness , is not merely ludicrous and ridiculous , it is a scurrilous lie . Which is par for the course and comes with the territory when you are arguing with ideologues , but when you discover that there is someone who , given the responsibility of moderating a forum fairly and impartially , is acting simply as an 'intimidator ' for the darwinists , that 's when you know that the cards are stacked , the dice weighted , sand your voice will soon be smothered . If you hear no more from me , you 'll know why not . If the 'mod ' erases this post before I 'm 'disappeared ' , you wo n't . C'est la vie . ww [ Mike Turner ]""","""Well some of us at least tried to get you to learn more . But I seriously doubt that you would be banned for not having a biology degree , I rather suspect other factors came into play . Certainly I never have complained to any moderators about your posts . I rather suspect nobody has , indeed I rather suspect you catalyzed any banning yourself , but I do not see how since you are rather mild mannered ( but more verbal ) than the average creo .""",DISAGREE,"""Why ? Apparently because 1 or more darwinists have complained to him that I refuse to learn about evolution . This , of course , is a complete crock , butr apparently the 'mod ' never bothered to check it out before leaping to do the dawinist 's""","""Well some of us at least tried to get you to learn""",,
25407,6719,"""* * Just rece8ived a threat of banning from a 'moderator ' . Why ? Apparently because 1 or more darwinists have complained to him that I refuse to learn about evolution . This , of course , is a complete crock , butr apparently the 'mod ' never bothered to check it out before leaping to do the dawinist 's bidding . The fact is that I know more about 'evolution ' than most of the members , and I never stop searching for web material that will help me to learn more . There is , so far as I am aware , no regulation that says any person posting to the 'evolution ' forum must have , or be in the process of obtaining , a recognised degree in evolutionary biology , genetics , biochemistry , molecular biology , or kindred field of study . The fact that none of the darwinists in this forum is capable of intellibly explaining the basic mechanics behind his/her gene-based , genetic determinist , RMNS hypothesis of evolution 's driving force/cause/mechanism is certainly no fault of mine , or anyone save themselves . That is their problem , and if they can not sell their notion because they can not explain it in empirical terms , that should be their concern and nobody else 's . But for them to try and reverse the situation by p [ retending that their incompetence is my laziness , is not merely ludicrous and ridiculous , it is a scurrilous lie . Which is par for the course and comes with the territory when you are arguing with ideologues , but when you discover that there is someone who , given the responsibility of moderating a forum fairly and impartially , is acting simply as an 'intimidator ' for the darwinists , that 's when you know that the cards are stacked , the dice weighted , sand your voice will soon be smothered . If you hear no more from me , you 'll know why not . If the 'mod ' erases this post before I 'm 'disappeared ' , you wo n't . C'est la vie . ww [ Mike Turner ]""","""Well some of us at least tried to get you to learn more . But I seriously doubt that you would be banned for not having a biology degree , I rather suspect other factors came into play . Certainly I never have complained to any moderators about your posts . I rather suspect nobody has , indeed I rather suspect you catalyzed any banning yourself , but I do not see how since you are rather mild mannered ( but more verbal ) than the average creo .""",DISAGREE,"""This , of course , is a complete crock , butr apparently the 'mod ' never bothered""","""I never have complained to any moderators about your posts .""",,
25420,6721,"""Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence ?""","""What about all the ova that were n't fertilized ? ! Just wasted , completely wasted and forgotten ! THE HUMANITY ! OH GOD ! ! !""",DISAGREE,"""Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence ?""","""What about all the ova that were n't fertilized ? ! Just wasted , completely wasted and forgotten ! THE HUMANITY ! OH GOD ! ! !""",,
25440,6725,"""This is where the competition really occurs . This is why natural selection -- the ability to go on to breed -- on the level of the population is actually non-random .""","""Wow ! Supersport got something right !""",AGREE,"""This is where the competition really occurs . This is why natural selection -- the ability to go on to breed -- on the level of the population is actually non-random .""","""Wow ! Supersport got something right !""",,
25446,6726,"""I was actually hoping to receive the onslaught from the creationists . I considered that post more as bait to begin a logical discussion for evolution vs creationism . I wanted to hear -- from a creationist -- why one can concede to evolution within a species within just 100 years , but can never agree to macroevolution across the span of hundreds of millions of years . It 's tantamount to believing each species of creature now has always been here and has only transformed through microevolution . ( Well , maybe the cockroach . Those things are the best , albeit icky , animal survival machines : P ) Besides , there are many examples of macroevolution which would be brought up as a creationist ignorantly believes this never happens . Of course , the end result would be that the creationist will not concede because s/he can not think logically , which is why they 're a creationist in the first place .""","""Well , I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically ( it 's generally a good quality for an accountant and tax attorney to have ) . The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments . In evolution as is usually meant by the word you are talking about the formation of an entirely new creature from inorganic compounds . If this is possible I pose a few questions for you . 1 ) Why have no new creatures evolved from inorganic compounds in human memory ? 2 ) How did these inorganic compounds decide that some creatures should evolve , while others of the same species did not ? Why are there not some apes that have evolved into humans by now ? Why did n't all apes evolve into humans ? 3 ) One of my favorite pieces of confusion from evolutionists involve fossils . How do you know how old a fossil is ? Every evolutionist I have asked has stated that fossils are dated by the rock layer they are found in , but if you then ask them how the rock layer is dated they answer that it is dated by the fossils that where discovered in it ! That 's a classical example of circular reasoning . I am not a scientist , so I can not present all the evidence against evolution as clearly as someone with a scientific education and background might do . If you are truly interested in learning more about the creationist arguments against evolution you can check out the article located at http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp . This article also has many links to other articles with even more information .""",DISAGREE,"""I was actually hoping to receive the onslaught from the creationists . I considered that post more as bait to begin a logical discussion for evolution vs creationism . I wanted to hear -- from a creationist -- why one can concede to evolution within a species within just 100 years , but can never agree to macroevolution across the span of hundreds of millions of years .""","""Well , I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically ( it 's generally a good quality for an accountant and tax attorney to have ) . The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments .""",,
25447,6726,"""I was actually hoping to receive the onslaught from the creationists . I considered that post more as bait to begin a logical discussion for evolution vs creationism . I wanted to hear -- from a creationist -- why one can concede to evolution within a species within just 100 years , but can never agree to macroevolution across the span of hundreds of millions of years . It 's tantamount to believing each species of creature now has always been here and has only transformed through microevolution . ( Well , maybe the cockroach . Those things are the best , albeit icky , animal survival machines : P ) Besides , there are many examples of macroevolution which would be brought up as a creationist ignorantly believes this never happens . Of course , the end result would be that the creationist will not concede because s/he can not think logically , which is why they 're a creationist in the first place .""","""Well , I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically ( it 's generally a good quality for an accountant and tax attorney to have ) . The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments . In evolution as is usually meant by the word you are talking about the formation of an entirely new creature from inorganic compounds . If this is possible I pose a few questions for you . 1 ) Why have no new creatures evolved from inorganic compounds in human memory ? 2 ) How did these inorganic compounds decide that some creatures should evolve , while others of the same species did not ? Why are there not some apes that have evolved into humans by now ? Why did n't all apes evolve into humans ? 3 ) One of my favorite pieces of confusion from evolutionists involve fossils . How do you know how old a fossil is ? Every evolutionist I have asked has stated that fossils are dated by the rock layer they are found in , but if you then ask them how the rock layer is dated they answer that it is dated by the fossils that where discovered in it ! That 's a classical example of circular reasoning . I am not a scientist , so I can not present all the evidence against evolution as clearly as someone with a scientific education and background might do . If you are truly interested in learning more about the creationist arguments against evolution you can check out the article located at http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp . This article also has many links to other articles with even more information .""",DISAGREE,"""logical discussion evolution vs creationism but can never agree to macroevolution across the span of hundreds of millions of years""","""Well , I am a creationist I would hope I can think logically Why are there not some apes that have evolved into humans by now""",,
25444,6726,"""I was actually hoping to receive the onslaught from the creationists . I considered that post more as bait to begin a logical discussion for evolution vs creationism . I wanted to hear -- from a creationist -- why one can concede to evolution within a species within just 100 years , but can never agree to macroevolution across the span of hundreds of millions of years . It 's tantamount to believing each species of creature now has always been here and has only transformed through microevolution . ( Well , maybe the cockroach . Those things are the best , albeit icky , animal survival machines : P ) Besides , there are many examples of macroevolution which would be brought up as a creationist ignorantly believes this never happens . Of course , the end result would be that the creationist will not concede because s/he can not think logically , which is why they 're a creationist in the first place .""","""Well , I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically ( it 's generally a good quality for an accountant and tax attorney to have ) . The difference between microevolution and evolution as an explanation for the beginning of a species is simple . In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments . In evolution as is usually meant by the word you are talking about the formation of an entirely new creature from inorganic compounds . If this is possible I pose a few questions for you . 1 ) Why have no new creatures evolved from inorganic compounds in human memory ? 2 ) How did these inorganic compounds decide that some creatures should evolve , while others of the same species did not ? Why are there not some apes that have evolved into humans by now ? Why did n't all apes evolve into humans ? 3 ) One of my favorite pieces of confusion from evolutionists involve fossils . How do you know how old a fossil is ? Every evolutionist I have asked has stated that fossils are dated by the rock layer they are found in , but if you then ask them how the rock layer is dated they answer that it is dated by the fossils that where discovered in it ! That 's a classical example of circular reasoning . I am not a scientist , so I can not present all the evidence against evolution as clearly as someone with a scientific education and background might do . If you are truly interested in learning more about the creationist arguments against evolution you can check out the article located at http : //www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/1106ng.asp . This article also has many links to other articles with even more information .""",DISAGREE,"""one can concede to evolution but can never agree to macroevolution creationist will not concede because s/he can not think logically""","""I am a creationist , and I would hope I can think logically In microevolution a species is simply adapting to it 's environments In evolution about the formation of an entirely new creature""",,
25483,6735,"""A federal judge has blocked the implementation of a new Arizona law that would strip same-sex domestic partners who are state employees of family health care benefits . The judge ruled that the new law violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. constitution . Check out the story in the Arizona Republic : Judge blocks Arizona law on domestic-partner benefits""","""Good news . It seems as time goes on Arizona attempts to become more and more intolerant and bigoted . Thankfully he put an end to this one ( too bad not the immigration one ) .""",AGREE,"""same-sex domestic partners who are state employees of family health care benefits .""","""Good news .""",,
25487,6736,"""Of course , this says nothing of the reality that other bats would have to be able to receive and interpret this new sonar-producing capability , which would also require the evolution of new hardware .... randomly , of course .""","""The words `` reality `` and `` have to `` should never have been added to that sentence . The reality is , bats could have evolved echolocation as a navigating tool , and learned to apply it to hunting and communication later . After all , all three uses require the same `` hardware `` : an organ to generate the sonar , and an organ to receive it .""",DISAGREE,"""this says nothing of the reality that other bats would have to""","""The words `` reality `` and `` have to `` should never have been added to that sentence .""",,
25500,6741,"""Are bats a link from rats to birds ?""","""Ignorant or dishonest . Who ever claimed that they were ?""",DISAGREE,"""Are bats a link from rats to birds ?""","""Ignorant or dishonest . Who ever claimed that they were ?""",,
25501,6741,"""Are bats a link from rats to birds ?""","""Ignorant or dishonest . Who ever claimed that they were ?""",DISAGREE,"""Are bats a link from rats to birds ?""","""Ignorant Who ever claimed that they were ?""",,
25507,6742,"""Sunspot activity must be high today . The tinfoil beanie brigade is our in full force .""","""Yes you are .""",AGREE,"""Sunspot activity must be high today . The tinfoil beanie brigade is our in full force .""","""you are .""",,
25503,6742,"""Sunspot activity must be high today . The tinfoil beanie brigade is our in full force .""","""Yes you are .""",AGREE,"""Sunspot activity must be high today . The tinfoil beanie brigade is our in full force .""","""Yes you are .""",,
25522,6745,"""I think they have more of a chance becasue , while many manage to delude themselves into believing that an unborn child is not a baby , it would be much more difficult to convince yourself that a crying baby is n't a baby . Even in the animal kingdom ( which we are all part of ) you see some animals hesitate to kill the young of their own species . Evne coyotes will not generally kill a pup ( I have even seen a pack of coyoptes pass a domestic pup without killing it , though they could have . I am told this is because of the stubby nose , which shows the coyotes that it is , indeed , a puppy , even though it looks unfamiliar to them ) .""","""Again , your argument does n't make good sense . First you say a fetus has no chance against someone who wants to kill it . I agree with this . Then you say a child has a chance against someone who wants to kill it ... and you base this on the killer 's changing his mind because the baby 's crying . Where DID you go to school ? Have n't you heard of the many shaken-baby-syndrome deaths that occurred because some idiotic person in custody of the child got fed up with the baby 's crying ? It just would n't stop crying , so they killed it . Until a child gets old enough , smart enough and strong enough to outrun or hide from someone trying to kil them , they have no chance of survival . Your argument is all wet . We are separated by reasoning and compassion from the other animals . Theirs is a life based on instinct and a few learned behaviors . For every example you can give me of animals protecting their own young , I can likely present an example where the males ( sometimes the females ) will kill the young of their species just to keep down the competition . A domestic bitch , when presented with a weakling in a litter of pups , will eat the weakling .""",DISAGREE,"""while many manage to delude themselves into believing that an unborn child is not a baby ,""","""your argument does n't make good sense .""",,
25521,6745,"""I think they have more of a chance becasue , while many manage to delude themselves into believing that an unborn child is not a baby , it would be much more difficult to convince yourself that a crying baby is n't a baby . Even in the animal kingdom ( which we are all part of ) you see some animals hesitate to kill the young of their own species . Evne coyotes will not generally kill a pup ( I have even seen a pack of coyoptes pass a domestic pup without killing it , though they could have . I am told this is because of the stubby nose , which shows the coyotes that it is , indeed , a puppy , even though it looks unfamiliar to them ) .""","""Again , your argument does n't make good sense . First you say a fetus has no chance against someone who wants to kill it . I agree with this . Then you say a child has a chance against someone who wants to kill it ... and you base this on the killer 's changing his mind because the baby 's crying . Where DID you go to school ? Have n't you heard of the many shaken-baby-syndrome deaths that occurred because some idiotic person in custody of the child got fed up with the baby 's crying ? It just would n't stop crying , so they killed it . Until a child gets old enough , smart enough and strong enough to outrun or hide from someone trying to kil them , they have no chance of survival . Your argument is all wet . We are separated by reasoning and compassion from the other animals . Theirs is a life based on instinct and a few learned behaviors . For every example you can give me of animals protecting their own young , I can likely present an example where the males ( sometimes the females ) will kill the young of their species just to keep down the competition . A domestic bitch , when presented with a weakling in a litter of pups , will eat the weakling .""",DISAGREE,"""while many manage to delude themselves into believing that an unborn child is not a baby , it would be much more difficult to convince yourself that a crying baby is n't a baby .""","""your argument does n't make good sense .""",,
25531,6747,"""Yes , I have read these things .""","""But did n't understand them .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , I have read these things .""","""But did n't understand them .""",,
25539,6749,"""My question is , how can any rational person really believe that what is theorized to have happened 4.3 billion years ago is so reliable as to be beyond questioning .""","""And how can Creationists be so ignorant as to allege scientific theories are beyond questioning , when it 's actually their belief in their bible that they refuse to question ? Who would believe the nonsensical fables of nomadic sheepherders ?""",DISAGREE,"""My question is , how can any rational person really believe that what is theorized to have happened 4.3 billion years ago is so reliable as to be beyond questioning .""","""And how can Creationists be so ignorant as to allege scientific theories are beyond questioning , when it 's actually their belief in their bible that they refuse to question ?""",,
25547,6752,"""4 ) We may be ignorant of a natural bias that could stop most all of evolution ( depending on how it ’ s defined on any given day ) in its tracks .""","""I made no such equivalent criticism - which would have been along the lines of 'There may well be no designer , which would rule out design ' . I do n't want or need to invoke unknowable unknowns to criticise ID . You 're speculating about just such a thing , the likelihood of which is unquantifiable , whereas we know that patterns arise in nature in the absence of design . Moreover , you 're hypothesising a natural bias that prevents the most fit variants from proliferating - but that very bias would disqualify them as 'most fit ' and make something else 'most fit ' instead .""",DISAGREE,"""We may be ignorant of a natural bias that could stop most all of evolution ( depending on how it ’ s defined on any given day ) in its tracks .""","""I made no such equivalent criticism - which would have been along the lines of 'There may well be no designer , which would rule out design""",,
25563,6756,"""`` Modern `` Atheists have only been around for a short time . In biblical times , Atheists were people who beleved in God ( s ) , but did n't believe He/they intervened with life on Earth . How and why do you think the terms have changed , and what are the similarities between tham ?""","""Are you referring to the Epicurians ? Aristotle ? I ca n't think of any reference to these people as atheists . Socrates was accused of being an atheist , and the accusation made it clear this was because he did n't believe in the gods . Some schools of Hinduism have been atheistic from BC , and Buddhism ( founded before 400 BC ) is essentially atheistic , in that there are 'gods ' but they are considered limited and not given much importance . More generally , I think modern atheists and fundamentalists are both largely the result of 1 ) the breakdown in everyone conforming to one religion , probably starting at the Reformation 2 ) the scientific outlook making people mistake religious meaning for scientific meaning , causing them to either think the Bible must be scientifically true because it 's religiously meaningful , or that it must be religiously meaningless because it 's scientifically false . Richard Dawkins and the average creationist make the same fundamental mistake - the greeks would say they mistook 'muthos ' ( myth , allegory ) for 'logos ' ( reason , science )""",DISAGREE,"""Atheists were people who beleved in God ( s ) , but did n't believe He/they intervened with life on Earth .""","""you referring to the Epicurians ? Aristotle ? I ca n't think of any reference to these people as atheists .""",,
25576,6759,"""And besides , why get so defensive about polygamy anyway ? It 's not like it 's some horrible thing to be compared to .""","""And you 're ignorant . Polgomy is a astronomical rights abuser .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not like it 's some horrible thing to be compared to .""","""And you 're ignorant . Polgomy is a astronomical rights abuser .""",,
25612,6765,"""Eighteen and pregnant , Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $ 1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy . Three days later , she sat in a reclining chair , medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise readied for the procedure . Only Renelique did n't arrive in time . According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health , she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl . What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate : One of the clinic 's owners , who has no medical license , cut the infant 's umbilical cord . Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out . Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips .""","""Doctor investigated in botched abortion - Crime & amp ; courts- msnbc.com""",AGREE,"""pregnant , abortion clinic baby no medical license , cut infant 's umbilical cord biohazard bag Police recovered decomposing""","""Doctor investigated abortion Crime &""",,
25619,6765,"""Eighteen and pregnant , Sycloria Williams went to an abortion clinic outside Miami and paid $ 1,200 for Dr. Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique to terminate her 23-week pregnancy . Three days later , she sat in a reclining chair , medicated to dilate her cervix and otherwise readied for the procedure . Only Renelique did n't arrive in time . According to Williams and the Florida Department of Health , she went into labor and delivered a live baby girl . What Williams and the Health Department say happened next has shocked people on both sides of the abortion debate : One of the clinic 's owners , who has no medical license , cut the infant 's umbilical cord . Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out . Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips .""","""Doctor investigated in botched abortion - Crime & amp ; courts- msnbc.com""",AGREE,"""cut the infant 's umbilical cord . Williams says the woman placed the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out .""","""Doctor investigated in botched abortion""",,
25622,6766,"""Lets say that at some point in the near future a world was found on which lived beings with an intelligence and self awareness like our own along with society , religion and culture . These Beings have a religion that contains a story that says their world was created by a deity 3000 years after when literal Genesists say the earth was created ( ie . if now , this would make their universe 3000 years old ) . When the religious members of each race discover the others beliefs , it causes much consternation as both claim to have the truth of God on their side . How would each group of literal belivers react to the other ? the Genesists say the Beings story can not be correct because the Bible is the word of God and it records 6000 years of history . The Beings can not accept the history of Genesis as it claims th universe existed 3000 years before their holy text records the creation of the universe and their first members by their God . Both claim to have the evidence of the word of God in their holy books , and their respective histories are truth . But their truth 's disagree ........ who is `` right `` who has the real `` truth `` ?""","""Why even set this in sci-fi ? We 've got heaps of religions on the known world . Here 's one for you ... say a number of people entered a debate forum with the purpose of defending 'evolution ' which follows 'scientific method ' . They dispute religion because they say , 'if religion is true , .... which one ? ' . Then someone shows them that evolution is not an homogenous theory ; not only are there different modes of theories of evolution ; materialism , ID-theory , etc , but even within their version ( materialism ) there 's different conflicting theories , some of which are mutually exclusive . Further to that , many of their notions about science are n't scientific , but based on philosophies of science ; such as their false belief that there 's only one 'scientific method ' , or that materialism , itself , is the only method of evolutionary theory . And to top it all off , science ca n't actually determine what is true , anyway . So they 're arguing against a belief in certainty from a belief in uncertainty . They deride people 's beliefs in God , etc , as being irrational , or illogical , but do n't even realise the faulty basis of their own assumptions about evolutionary science . How do they react to this revelation ? I would guess that there would be howls of protests , lots of ad hominems etc . This of course does n't disprove 'evolution ' , but they do n't even look to that , they 're too busy attacking someone who 'd dare question their a priori notions about science . That is , in this 'hypothetic forum ' I 'm talking about""",DISAGREE,"""Lets say at some point in the near future When the religious members of each race discover the others beliefs , it causes much consternation as both claim to have the truth of God on their side . How would each group of literal belivers react to the other ? ``""","""sci-fi say Then someone shows them that evolution is not an homogenous theory ; not only are there different modes of theories of evolution ; materialism , ID-theory , etc , but even within their version ( materialism ) there 's different conflicting theories , some of which are mutually exclusive""",,
25644,6768,"""Had it not been for Activist judges in Mass . and and activist mayor in Sodom ( SF ) trolling for votes gay marriage would not even be and issue ......""","""Actually , no . If it had not been for the gay couples and the organizations who helped them fight for equality it would n't be an issue now , but it would still be an issue .""",DISAGREE,"""Had it not been for Activist judges in Mass . and and activist mayor in Sodom""","""Actually , no .""",,
25659,6770,"""Hillarious . I remember seeing that a while back . That 's liberals for you , the laws they propose are for the 'peasants ' , not for them to obey . They , afterall , are better suited for making decisions like these than you . You need them to think for you .. to care for you .. cradle to grave . You may also recall that famed anti-gunner Rosie O'Donnell has armed bodyguards but says you should n't have guns yourself . You can not be trusted , afterall . And who was that writer who shot the kid in the hand that was swimming in his pool late one night ? Carl something . Another anti-gunner who preaches 'do as I say , not as I do ' . Liberals .. LOL !""","""Do you see cops driving down the road , going over the speed limit , turning on their lights during rush hour to get to their exit which is just a little ways ahead and then turn their lights off after they exit the highway . People who enforce the law think that they are better than the law , and do n't have follow the law , even if they enforce the law , or make them , i personally think that is Bull * * * * ! ! !""",AGREE,"""You may also recall that famed anti-gunner Rosie O'Donnell has armed bodyguards but says you should n't have guns yourself .""","""People who enforce the law think that they are better than the law ,""",,
25675,6773,"""And , a circle could be called a circle in the English language , but I could make up a new language in which a circle would be called a square and a square a circle .""","""But your new language would be meaningless . The definition of a circle or a square does not vary from language to language . Mathematical definitions are not matters of opinion but quite precise descriptions so that all mathematicians will understand what is meant when the term is used . The words may change but the meaning does n't . Math is not opinion . It is not my opinion that a triangle has three angles . That is a matter of definition . Apparently Habbit does n't understand that substituting the words of another language does not change the concept . That sort of argument is basically ignorant XXXX .""",DISAGREE,"""And , a circle could be called a circle in the English language , but I could make up a new language in which a circle would be called a square and a square a circle""","""But your new language would be meaningless . The definition of a circle or a square does not vary from language to language .""",,
25744,6798,"""Honey ! ! ! What do you think I was hinting at ? ? ? ? Hmmm ... wonder if I could get my partner to actually step onto a plane ... Hey , has TF Green changed all that much in the past fifteen years ? At least I 've got some friends I could stay with ! ! ! ( and no ... I do n't mean you ... remember I used to live in RI )""","""TF Green was a small little airport when I moved here 10years ago . It is now 10 times that size with multiple terminals and dozens of airlines . Yes , it has changed . It would be fun ! My friends are trying to talk me into a UUC minister . Since we do n't really have anyone to officiate the ceremony , I am guessing that is the ruote we will need to take . We did decide today to axe the cake thing .... too hetero for me . We decided it really will be at my boss 's house ..... yeah ! We picked a date in September ...... woo woo . I will update you all as we plan !""",AGREE,"""has TF Green changed all that much in the past fifteen years ?""","""TF Green was a small little airport when I moved here 10years ago . It is now 10 times that size with multiple terminals and dozens of airlines . Yes , it has changed .""",,
25759,6801,"""What are you afraid of , Trebor ? ? The whole world wants to know why you keep avoiding this question : According to your own Jewish Tanakh , is God the Creator of the heavens and earth , and man ? Will he give a pertinent answer or evade it again ? ? I 'm betting he wo n't answer the question .""","""You are making some false assumptions . However , I guess you are unable to read . I definately know you ca n't read in context .""",DISAGREE,"""God the Creator of the heavens and earth , and man ?""","""You are making some false assumptions""",,
25788,6807,"""So as you can see , petrification is out of the question for proving evolution .""","""This neither disproves evolution nor provides evidence of creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""petrification is out of the question for proving evolution .""","""This neither disproves evolution nor provides evidence of creationism .""",,
25798,6809,"""Uh , huh . About a week ago they put Malvo or his muslim partner to death after all this time for the 'sniper slayings ' they advertised as `` two white males in a white car `` obviously white , right wing extremists . OOOOOPS !""","""Yea just like the racist redneck with his rifle and pistol at the rally that NBC or MSNBC edited !""",AGREE,"""About a week ago they put Malvo or his muslim partner to death after all this time for the 'sniper slayings '""","""Yea just like the racist redneck with his rifle and pistol at the rally that NBC or MSNBC edited !""",,
25814,6812,"""Or another example of how denying homosexuals access access to anything but the same legal institutions as heterosexuals will never result in equality . The domestic partner registry just is n't sufficient ; why would anyone think that creating a similar marriage-substitute will be equal ?""","""Does that mean a pat on the head is n't the same as getting a peice of chocolate cake ?""",DISAGREE,"""another example of how denying homosexuals access""","""Does that mean a pat on the head is n't the same as getting a peice""",,
25815,6812,"""Or another example of how denying homosexuals access access to anything but the same legal institutions as heterosexuals will never result in equality . The domestic partner registry just is n't sufficient ; why would anyone think that creating a similar marriage-substitute will be equal ?""","""Does that mean a pat on the head is n't the same as getting a peice of chocolate cake ?""",DISAGREE,"""how denying homosexuals access access to anything but the same legal institutions as heterosexuals will never result in equality .""","""mean a pat on the head is n't the same as getting a peice of chocolate cake""",,
25817,6813,"""yet many debaters spend more posts arguing what is evolution and why youre wrong to call such-and-such evolution , and not enough time actually discussing how the facts , evidence and theories fit into the bigger picture""","""Actually it is the creationists who do n't know what they are talking about . If they wish to talk about cosmology , then by all means talk about it . Just do n't pretend that anything discusses has any bearing on evolutionary theory .""",DISAGREE,"""many debaters spend more posts arguing what is evolution and why youre wrong to call such-and-such evolution""","""Actually it is the creationists who do n't know what they are talking about .""",,
25826,6815,"""One point I would like to make is that rockets are not legal to own , unless they are demil-ed , and the same goes for tanks and aircraft . They are called Destructive Devices under the NFA , and are regulated heavily .""","""Do some research . People collect functional tanks and aircraft . Did you ever hear of the Confederate Air Force ? They restore and fly military aircraft . As for tanks , there are many web sites that promote collecting tanks and other military vehicles . And people shoot laws rockets . They just do not shoot live HE rounds . It is a little expensive .""",DISAGREE,"""rockets are not legal to own , unless they are demil-ed , and the same goes for tanks and aircraft .""","""Do some research . People collect functional tanks and aircraft .""",,
25836,6817,"""Why should the courts be concerned with preventing a religious concept ?""","""There is nothing religious about babies .... They should be concerned with preventing the death of an innocent person ... who made no mistakes , violated no laws , and whos only crime is existance . if you dont think courts can protect babies , then do you .. deserve any protection ? If a baby can be killed simply because it is an inconvience ... then why does it suddenly become a crime if the baby is 2 days old ? what difference is there between a child in the womb , and one which was just born ? its still the same baby . The point is .. we can prevent all these reckless abortions , if ... if ... if .. we can convince all these wild loose sex acts ... to be done with a condom ... Guys dont like condoms .... They must be made to recognise that they can not simply walk away . The only time , the girl will give the name ... is when the guy made promises , and refuses to marry ... refuses to care .. and the girl is left alone . in those cases the bastards deserve to do hard labor , for atleast 3 months . The state should promote ... -Mosheh Thezion""",DISAGREE,"""courts be concerned religious""","""There is nothing religious about babies .... They should be concerned with preventing the death of an innocent person ... who made no mistakes , violated no laws , and whos only crime is existance . if you dont think courts can protect babies , then do you .. deserve any protection ?""",,
25858,6821,"""I 'm sure that Clive14 can clarify this for him/herself ,""","""Really ? You 've sought to intervene so far . Why stop ?""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm sure that Clive14 can clarify this""","""Really ? Why stop ?""",,
25861,6821,"""I 'm sure that Clive14 can clarify this for him/herself ,""","""Really ? You 've sought to intervene so far . Why stop ?""",DISAGREE,"""Clive14 can clarify""","""sought to intervene""",,
25867,6822,"""You do n't mean Ethel and Julius Rosenberg , do you ? The Russian spies ? Nah , you said wrongfully accused .....""","""Yes , I mean the couple who was wrongly accused of being Russian spies in the 50 's and then exicuted . This was stupid for at least two reasons . One , they were n't spies . Back about 5 years ago , they had a family member come out and say that they testified wrongly against them . Second , the whole idea of the Russian threat was some paronoid fantasy by this one guy named McCarthy who was an XXXXX and a big fraidy cat . Because of his loonicy , too many people lost jobs wrongfully ( and lives ) and made an entire nation of scared citizens even more frightened . Besides , the Russians were never really a threat to us in the first place . They were more of a threat to themselves .""",DISAGREE,"""do n't mean Ethel and Julius Rosenberg , do you ? The Russian spies ?""","""was wrongly accused of being Russian spies in the 50 's was stupid they were n't spies the whole idea of the Russian threat was some fantasy""",,
25865,6822,"""You do n't mean Ethel and Julius Rosenberg , do you ? The Russian spies ? Nah , you said wrongfully accused .....""","""Yes , I mean the couple who was wrongly accused of being Russian spies in the 50 's and then exicuted . This was stupid for at least two reasons . One , they were n't spies . Back about 5 years ago , they had a family member come out and say that they testified wrongly against them . Second , the whole idea of the Russian threat was some paronoid fantasy by this one guy named McCarthy who was an XXXXX and a big fraidy cat . Because of his loonicy , too many people lost jobs wrongfully ( and lives ) and made an entire nation of scared citizens even more frightened . Besides , the Russians were never really a threat to us in the first place . They were more of a threat to themselves .""",DISAGREE,"""You do n't mean Ethel and Julius Rosenberg""","""I mean the couple who was wrongly accused of being Russian spies in the 50 's and then exicuted .""",,
25895,6827,"""Why do Americans want so many guns ? What are you most afraid of ?""","""Actually what are YOU most afraid of .. Perhaps your skyrocketing violence since they confiscated your guns is not enough of an eyeopener as to the perils of tyrannical government intrusion into a persons life , liberty , etc at the expense of your personal saftey .. Perhaps the hail mary at the bottom of your post is all you have left ! Britain , Australia top U.S. in violent crime g'day mate ! MOLON LABE""",DISAGREE,"""Why do Americans want so many guns ? What are you most afraid of ?""","""Actually what are YOU most afraid of .. Perhaps your skyrocketing violence since they confiscated your guns is not enough of an eyeopener as to the perils of tyrannical government intrusion into a persons life , liberty ,""",,
25910,6830,"""If intelligence of any form is involved , including some intelligent organizing force innate to living systems , life is intelligently designed .""","""And if intelligence is not involved in evolution but rather is a product of evolution then life is not intelligently designed . Which of the two alternatives do you think has empirical support . Whats the IQ of the metaphorical pond scum ? From whence did an `` intelligent `` organizing force arise ? And so forth .""",DISAGREE,"""If intelligence of any form is involved , including some intelligent organizing force innate to living systems , life is intelligently designed .""","""And if intelligence is not involved in evolution but rather is a product of evolution then life is not intelligently designed .""",,
25927,6840,"""And there are plenty of people who smoke who do n't develop lung cancer . You 're cherry picking .""","""Firearms are n't comparable to cigars and cigarettes . We 've explained that before , but you just continue to ignore the facts . Guns and drugs are n't the same , they ca n't be compared . Shooting NEVER causes cancer , however the carcinogens in cigarettes DO cause cancer .""",DISAGREE,"""And there are plenty of people who smoke who do n't develop lung cancer""","""Shooting NEVER causes cancer , however the carcinogens in cigarettes DO cause cancer .""",,
25932,6841,"""Now the word of the Lord came to me saying , `` Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , and before you were born I consecrated you ; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations. ``""","""This verse seems to point out that Jeremiah was more than simply a `` product of conception. `` He was a product of the Creator , formed in the womb by Him in the same manner that Adam was formed out of the dust and in the image of the maker .""",DISAGREE,"""Now the word of the Lord came to me saying , `` Before I formed you in the womb I knew you , and before you were born I consecrated you ;""","""This verse seems to point out that Jeremiah was more than simply a `` product of conception. ``""",,
25933,6842,"""The thing that breaks my heart even more is knowing that the babies are being mercilessly hurt in the process . People do n't want to believe this , but it 's true ! Planned Parenthood actually states the following on their website : `` We know for sure that the embryo or fetus can not perceive pain in the nearly 99 percent of all abortions that occur before the 20th week of pregnancy . It is even possible that a fetus is unable to perceive pain at any time during pregnancy. `` Are you kidding me ? ! ! ! Where 's your research to back that one up ? ! That sounds more like a wild guess to me ! So what about the other 1 percent ? Why is it that `` nearly 99 percent `` you are sure ca n't perceive pain ? And then to actually say it is possible they ca n't perceive it any time during pregnancy ? ! Yes because you know , the nervous system does n't actually develop until AFTER birth !""","""No , but it does develop very late on , and most abortions are carried out early . Over 99 % is pretty high , considering abortions carried out very late tend to be because of problems medically with the mother or the foetus where an abortion is the best option .""",DISAGREE,"""embryo or fetus can not perceive pain in the nearly 99 percent of all abortions that occur before the 20th week of pregnancy .""","""it does develop very late on , and most abortions are carried out early""",,
25935,6842,"""The thing that breaks my heart even more is knowing that the babies are being mercilessly hurt in the process . People do n't want to believe this , but it 's true ! Planned Parenthood actually states the following on their website : `` We know for sure that the embryo or fetus can not perceive pain in the nearly 99 percent of all abortions that occur before the 20th week of pregnancy . It is even possible that a fetus is unable to perceive pain at any time during pregnancy. `` Are you kidding me ? ! ! ! Where 's your research to back that one up ? ! That sounds more like a wild guess to me ! So what about the other 1 percent ? Why is it that `` nearly 99 percent `` you are sure ca n't perceive pain ? And then to actually say it is possible they ca n't perceive it any time during pregnancy ? ! Yes because you know , the nervous system does n't actually develop until AFTER birth !""","""No , but it does develop very late on , and most abortions are carried out early . Over 99 % is pretty high , considering abortions carried out very late tend to be because of problems medically with the mother or the foetus where an abortion is the best option .""",DISAGREE,"""We know for sure that the embryo or fetus can not perceive pain in the nearly 99 percent of all abortions that occur before the 20th week of pregnancy""","""No , but it does develop very late on , and most abortions are carried out early . Over 99 % is pretty high , considering abortions carried out very late tend to be because of problems medically with the mother or the foetus""",,
25939,6843,"""A man , a state , a church , a religian that can not change can not grow .""","""But of course . Growth is a kind of change . But I suspect that certain religious attitudes are that change is bad . They prefer to hold the status quo as it was somewhere around 1600 .""",AGREE,"""A man , a state , a church , a religian that can not change can not grow .""","""But of course . Growth is a kind of change .""",,
25948,6845,"""Yeah . Banning them will only send us back to the medieval times when everyone used SWORDS .""","""Well at least you ca n't have a drive by swording . You can run from a sword . They are pretty tough to conceal in a bank robbery .""",DISAGREE,"""Banning them will only send us back to the medieval times when everyone used SWORDS .""","""at least you ca n't have a drive by swording .""",,
25969,6849,"""A woman owns her head , just as she owns the rest of her body . If you accept women as legitimate self-owners and not a slave caste , both the legality of abortion and the illegality of steamrolling their heads follows .""","""The * mind * ( self-owned ) holds beneficial possibilities ( that self-deceived atheists in the current culture-of-death do n't realize ) . Fortunately , we can choose to follow Jesus Christ , in His culture-of- * life ... Abundant * Rather than dying , how much do you want to Live Annie""",DISAGREE,"""A woman owns her head , just as she owns the rest of her body . If you accept women as legitimate self-owners""","""Fortunately , we can choose to follow Jesus Christ""",,
25986,6852,"""what scientists do has nothing to do with the debate that goes on wrt to philosophical merits of darwinism versus creationism versus neo-lamarckism , i.e. , devo-evo , aka , Endogenous Adaptive mutagenesis .""","""You are absolutely correct . Scientists do science . Philosophers wander around inside their own domain . On the other hand I am much more interested in the scientific merits of NDS and EAM than in the musings of philosophers . Science supports NDS , science fails to support the vitalist views of EAM . Simple as that . Its not a philosophical issue , its a scientific one .""",AGREE,"""what scientists do has nothing to do with the debate that goes on wrt to philosophical merits of darwinism versus""","""You are absolutely correct . Scientists do science .""",,
25989,6853,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no proof , this is all agnosticism is . They say there is no proof of god so I do n't believe for sure that there is one . They also know you ca n't prove there is no god so they are not convinced one way or the other . It 's a lot better logic than you tried to use . Maybe you should just respect others ' beliefs and realize that they 've actually thought about their decisions and can do more than just quote a book and other people . You should be able to post quotes but you should actually put a little of your own knowledge and thought into posts as well . I doubt this will have any effect on you at all , but oh well I tried .""","""Right on .""",AGREE,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no proof""","""Right on .""",,
25990,6853,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no proof , this is all agnosticism is . They say there is no proof of god so I do n't believe for sure that there is one . They also know you ca n't prove there is no god so they are not convinced one way or the other . It 's a lot better logic than you tried to use . Maybe you should just respect others ' beliefs and realize that they 've actually thought about their decisions and can do more than just quote a book and other people . You should be able to post quotes but you should actually put a little of your own knowledge and thought into posts as well . I doubt this will have any effect on you at all , but oh well I tried .""","""Right on .""",AGREE,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no""","""Right on .""",,
25988,6853,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no proof , this is all agnosticism is . They say there is no proof of god so I do n't believe for sure that there is one . They also know you ca n't prove there is no god so they are not convinced one way or the other . It 's a lot better logic than you tried to use . Maybe you should just respect others ' beliefs and realize that they 've actually thought about their decisions and can do more than just quote a book and other people . You should be able to post quotes but you should actually put a little of your own knowledge and thought into posts as well . I doubt this will have any effect on you at all , but oh well I tried .""","""Right on .""",AGREE,"""Now the title of this thread , proposed by richbee . You reject a theory of multiple universes because of no proof , this is all agnosticism is . They say there is no proof of god so I do n't believe for sure that there is one .""","""Right on .""",,
25993,6854,"""None that prove one became another . Of course dinos , birds , and fish exist and scientist study them -or their remains as with dinos . Of course some dinosaurs are still alive like alligators , monitor lizards etc .""","""Do n't quote yourself . What did I just say ? Nothing is ever proven , except in math . But , yes , papers are published all the time with loads of evidence pointing to the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs . Alligators were not dinosaurs when dinos were around and still are n't . Neither are monitor lizards . Btw- monitors started appearing right as the dinos died out , but they were not and are not dinos .""",AGREE,"""Of course dinos , birds , and fish exist and scientist study them Of course some dinosaurs are still alive like alligators , monitor lizards""","""What did I just say ? Nothing is ever proven , except in math the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs Alligators were not dinosaurs when dinos were around and still are n't Neither are monitor lizards""",,
25994,6854,"""None that prove one became another . Of course dinos , birds , and fish exist and scientist study them -or their remains as with dinos . Of course some dinosaurs are still alive like alligators , monitor lizards etc .""","""Do n't quote yourself . What did I just say ? Nothing is ever proven , except in math . But , yes , papers are published all the time with loads of evidence pointing to the fact that birds evolved from dinosaurs . Alligators were not dinosaurs when dinos were around and still are n't . Neither are monitor lizards . Btw- monitors started appearing right as the dinos died out , but they were not and are not dinos .""",AGREE,"""None that prove one became another . Of course dinos , birds , and fish exist and scientist study them -or their remains as with dinos .""","""Do n't yourself . What did I just say ? Nothing is ever proven , except in math""",,
26010,6857,"""But since selection works on the level of the whole organism , it can not stop the loss of information due to mutation . It ’ s like trying to fix a broken-down tv set with a hammer .""","""A broken-down tv set is not a valid parallel . It does n't reproduce , and there is only one of it . Life , on the other hand , does reproduce ( at least some organisms do ) . It would be interesting for someone to make a counter displaying the number of times natural selection needs to be explained to creationists . Actually , that would be easy : infinity . They just do n't get it .""",DISAGREE,"""selection works on the level of the whole organism , it can not stop the loss of information due to mutation""","""Life on the other hand , does reproduce It would be interesting for someone to make a counter displaying the number of times natural selection needs to be explained to creationists""",,
26017,6858,"""We 're all addicted to something . I had a tough time recently giving up coffee . It was interfering with my life .""","""lol , and you prove my point ... rationalization for the win""",AGREE,"""We 're all addicted to something . It was interfering with my life""","""my""",,
26015,6858,"""We 're all addicted to something . I had a tough time recently giving up coffee . It was interfering with my life .""","""lol , and you prove my point ... rationalization for the win""",AGREE,"""We 're all addicted to something""","""lol , and you prove my point ... rationalization for the win""",,
26032,6862,"""What about the fossils ? How did they form ? To turn a bone into a fossil , it has to be buried fast and put under pressure , or esle it will rot .""","""Not necessarily . It depends on a lot of conditions . If an organism falls in an anoxic environment , it may be fossilized . Sometimes they are buried quickly . Sometimes not . For example , the bottom of the Solnhofen lagoon about 140 to 170 million years ago was anoxic . Today , the bottom of the Black Sea is anoxic . You do n't explain why a bone has to be under pressure . I thought it was mineralization that made the fossil . And so what ? You seem to be claiming that there are n't any fossils . You ca n't be that dense , can you ? What are those things that you find in museums of natural history ?""",DISAGREE,"""What about the fossils ? How did they form ?""","""If an organism falls in an anoxic environment , it may be fossilized .""",,
26035,6862,"""What about the fossils ? How did they form ? To turn a bone into a fossil , it has to be buried fast and put under pressure , or esle it will rot .""","""Not necessarily . It depends on a lot of conditions . If an organism falls in an anoxic environment , it may be fossilized . Sometimes they are buried quickly . Sometimes not . For example , the bottom of the Solnhofen lagoon about 140 to 170 million years ago was anoxic . Today , the bottom of the Black Sea is anoxic . You do n't explain why a bone has to be under pressure . I thought it was mineralization that made the fossil . And so what ? You seem to be claiming that there are n't any fossils . You ca n't be that dense , can you ? What are those things that you find in museums of natural history ?""",DISAGREE,"""has to be buried fast and put under pressure""","""Not necessarily Sometimes they are buried quickly . Sometimes not You do n't explain why a bone has to be under pressure I thought it was mineralization that made the fossil""",,
26046,6865,"""What the theory of evolution states is that monkeys and apes came from a common ancestor , and that humans are apes from a taxonomy point of view . While there are 'gaps ' in knowledge , I suspect if you did a study about what we actually do know about evolution , and human evolution in specific , you would be amazed at what we DO know .""","""I know we know a great deal but even if it is from a taxonomy point of view I still do n't think there is conclusive evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""What the theory of evolution states is that monkeys and apes came from a common ancestor ,""","""know we know a great deal but even if it is from a taxonomy point""",,
26048,6866,"""I did a few searches using random words and found that the trend seams to be downward on most of them .""","""I see you 're right there . The trends here can not be simply based on the number of searches because every trend would be climbing in that case as more and more people own computers . I think the trend at any one point is calculated something like this - ( volume of trend search at given point / total search volume at given point ) Here another way to compare side by side - http : //www.google.com/trends ? q=Chris ... ate=all & amp ; sort=0""",AGREE,"""I did a few searches using random words and found that the trend seams to be downward on most of them .""","""I see you 're right there""",,
26062,6869,"""Most often the Christians that do question  “ evolution ” they question Macro-evolution also known as speciation ( depending on what definition of speciation you use ) , which is the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  “ new ” species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) .""","""And if it depends on `` what definition of speciation you use , `` why did n't you give yours so that we can be clear as to what we are discussing . Finally , macroevolution is not 'the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  “ new ” species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) . ' Speciation does not require `` huge jumps in genetic shifts , `` whatever that means ( another example of semi-literate English ) . Would you like to hear of some examples of single populations in which the geographical extremes are separate species ( i.e. , they have overlapping ranges and are genetically isolated ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""Macro-evolution speciation is the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  new species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) .""","""And if it depends on `` what definition of speciation you use , `` macroevolution is not 'the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  new species Speciation does not require `` huge jumps in genetic shifts , `` whatever that means""",,
26064,6869,"""Most often the Christians that do question  “ evolution ” they question Macro-evolution also known as speciation ( depending on what definition of speciation you use ) , which is the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  “ new ” species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) .""","""And if it depends on `` what definition of speciation you use , `` why did n't you give yours so that we can be clear as to what we are discussing . Finally , macroevolution is not 'the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  “ new ” species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) . ' Speciation does not require `` huge jumps in genetic shifts , `` whatever that means ( another example of semi-literate English ) . Would you like to hear of some examples of single populations in which the geographical extremes are separate species ( i.e. , they have overlapping ranges and are genetically isolated ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""Most often the Christians that do question  evolution they question Macro-evolution also known as speciation ( depending on what definition of speciation you use ) , which is the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  new species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation ) .""","""And if it depends on `` what definition of speciation you use , `` why did n't you give yours so that we can be clear as to what we are discussing . Finally , macroevolution is not 'the concept that at certain times evolution makes huge jumps in genetic shifts that result in  new species ( an over simplification and there are many theories in specie formation )""",,
26092,6882,"""So how do `` Police powers , government oversight , economy , the rights of the people `` account for the lower homicide rates among other developed nations ? If you have an actual argument to make then make it . Otherwise , stop trying to muddy the waters .""","""It has absolutely everything to do with supposedly lower homicide rates . If there 's a low homicide rate in one selected country , and the police have the authority to beat a confession out of you and make annual inspections of your home , then those are facts that the people need to be aware of . You ca n't just claim `` Country A has more gun control and a lower homicide rate than Country B does `` and leave it at that . You 've got to give absolutely every single fact available if you ever hope to draw a proper comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""If you have an actual argument to make then make it .""","""Country A has more gun control and a lower homicide rate than Country B does""",,
26107,6885,"""Your lie about me is duly noted .""","""Which lie is that ?""",DISAGREE,"""Your lie about me is duly noted .""","""Which lie is that ?""",,
26127,6889,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Karl , How can you say such things ?""","""It 's easy , I let creation speak to me .""",DISAGREE,"""How can you say such things ?""","""It 's easy , I let creation speak to me .""",,
26128,6889,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Karl , How can you say such things ?""","""It 's easy , I let creation speak to me .""",DISAGREE,"""Karl , How can you say such things ?""","""It 's easy , I let creation speak to me .""",,
26134,6891,"""Indeed . Cobb County Georgia . And the sticker was found unconstitutional in Federal Court . The problem was that it was religiously motivated , was placed only in biology texts , did n't say anything true that the teachers were n't already teaching , and actually was not accurate . The sticker was found to be unconstitutional because it violated the second prong of the Lemon Test . I suspect that you do n't know what that is . Anyway , the 11th Circuit reversed .""","""Yes , the ACLU has lots of money to spread this BS , ( some of it is taxpayer money - violates the first amendment )""",DISAGREE,"""The problem was that it was religiously motivated , was placed only in biology texts , did n't say anything true that the teachers were n't already teaching , and actually was not accurate .""","""Yes ,""",,
26153,6897,"""Yet there was a case that I read about somewhere , where a sticker was placed in science textbooks advising children to study evolution `` with an open mind `` , and an ACLU lawsuit ensued .""","""I 've filled marc in on this before , but as usual he 's ignoring the information that he does n't like . ( Besides , marc , why single out evolution ? Why are n't you for putting stickers on all science books labeling all of that satanic , methodological naturalistic study as highly suspect ? )""",DISAGREE,"""Yet there was a case that I read about somewhere , where a sticker was placed in science textbooks advising children to study evolution `` with an open mind `` , and an ACLU lawsuit ensued .""","""as usual he 's ignoring the information that he does n't like . Why are n't you for putting stickers on all science books labeling all of that satanic , methodological naturalistic study as highly suspect ?""",,
26157,6897,"""Yet there was a case that I read about somewhere , where a sticker was placed in science textbooks advising children to study evolution `` with an open mind `` , and an ACLU lawsuit ensued .""","""I 've filled marc in on this before , but as usual he 's ignoring the information that he does n't like . ( Besides , marc , why single out evolution ? Why are n't you for putting stickers on all science books labeling all of that satanic , methodological naturalistic study as highly suspect ? )""",DISAGREE,"""Yet there was a case that I read about somewhere ,""","""I 've filled marc in on this before , but as usual he 's ignoring the information that he does n't like""",,
26169,6899,"""Climates change !""","""and cause extictions""",DISAGREE,"""Climates change !""","""and cause extictions""",,
26165,6899,"""Climates change !""","""and cause extictions""",DISAGREE,"""Climates change !""","""and cause extictions""",,
26185,6902,"""In fact , it could be said that the man has the only independent perspective .""","""An independant perspective does n't make it a good thing . Politicians that propose anti-gun legislation do n't have to live in the real world with those of us that the bill will affect , they should n't be allowed to propose it .""",DISAGREE,"""In fact , it could be said that the man has the only independent perspective .""","""An independant perspective does n't make it a good thing .""",,
26230,6911,"""This is why religion may not survive the future . People like Arch are setting it as opposed to science and in that position it will be doomed to fail . The only hope is if the nuts stop making it in to an adversarial situation . Arch is doing nothing but distorting the very thing he holds so dear , but that is already clear to anyone who knows his work here .""","""Here is what fascinates me about the judgmental criticism you offer of my opinion . In typical fashion you make claims which you do n't support at all . Here is my post below , point out WITH EVIDENCE ! ! ! what I am distorting in any way ; especially that which I hold dear . In other words , write a cogent and rational post which makes sense when applied to the quoted post it intends to attack .""",DISAGREE,"""survive the future opposed to science doomed to fail""","""judgmental criticism WITH EVIDENCE ! ! ! attack""",,
26233,6911,"""This is why religion may not survive the future . People like Arch are setting it as opposed to science and in that position it will be doomed to fail . The only hope is if the nuts stop making it in to an adversarial situation . Arch is doing nothing but distorting the very thing he holds so dear , but that is already clear to anyone who knows his work here .""","""Here is what fascinates me about the judgmental criticism you offer of my opinion . In typical fashion you make claims which you do n't support at all . Here is my post below , point out WITH EVIDENCE ! ! ! what I am distorting in any way ; especially that which I hold dear . In other words , write a cogent and rational post which makes sense when applied to the quoted post it intends to attack .""",DISAGREE,"""This is why religion may not survive the future . setting it as opposed to science""","""you make claims which you do n't support at all . my post below , point out WITH EVIDENCE ! ! ! what I am distorting in any way""",,
26253,6914,"""the big news here has nothing to do with dinosaurs and chickens : it 's that proteins were found in dinosaur bones after supposedly 68 million years .""","""Funny . That 's not what the articles say . All of the articles pretty much concentrate on the research as significant in support of the dinosaur/bird link . If you had been paying attention , you would have been aware that it had been previously established through other tests that protein remnants were present . Thus , the amazement that protein remnants so old had been found had already passed .""",DISAGREE,"""proteins were found in dinosaur bones after supposedly 68 million years""","""All of the articles pretty much concentrate on the research as significant in support of the dinosaur/bird link . it had been previously established through other tests that protein remnants were present""",,
26270,6915,"""Sounds like primarily drug offenses . Nothing about guns .""","""I 'd find it interesting to discover how many of those 58,000 were looking at very long and serious sentences , but were given a plea deal for reduced charges .""",DISAGREE,"""drug offenses guns""","""very long and serious sentences plea deal reduced charges""",,
26278,6916,"""If science deals with how information is gathered , different ways of analyzing , and different hypothesis , then it involves worldviews . The base for the worldview of a sizable part of the population should not be excluded . Maybe in Saddam Hussien 's Iraq , maybe in communist Russia , but not in the United States .""","""of course . But not as scientific theory . Some people believe that the Holocaust did n't happen , you want to teach that as a scientific theory ?""",DISAGREE,"""If science deals with how information is gathered ,""","""of course . But not as scientific theory .""",,
26273,6916,"""If science deals with how information is gathered , different ways of analyzing , and different hypothesis , then it involves worldviews . The base for the worldview of a sizable part of the population should not be excluded . Maybe in Saddam Hussien 's Iraq , maybe in communist Russia , but not in the United States .""","""of course . But not as scientific theory . Some people believe that the Holocaust did n't happen , you want to teach that as a scientific theory ?""",DISAGREE,"""If science deals with how information is gathered , different ways of analyzing , and different hypothesis , then it involves worldviews .""","""But not as scientific theory . you want to teach that as a scientific theory ?""",,
26276,6916,"""If science deals with how information is gathered , different ways of analyzing , and different hypothesis , then it involves worldviews . The base for the worldview of a sizable part of the population should not be excluded . Maybe in Saddam Hussien 's Iraq , maybe in communist Russia , but not in the United States .""","""of course . But not as scientific theory . Some people believe that the Holocaust did n't happen , you want to teach that as a scientific theory ?""",DISAGREE,"""If science deals with how information is gathered different hypothesis""","""But not as scientific theory did n't happen you want to teach that as a scientific theory ?""",,
26290,6919,"""i could n't believe in the bible . even as a child i saw through the fairy tales . giants , people living hundreds of years , water to wine , a talking snake , parting of the red sea , etc .""","""Well , I was n't an fortunate as you . It took me a few years to see through the fairy tale of evolution and see that God was the only true creator . However , that is a whole 'nother topic .""",DISAGREE,"""i could n't believe in the bible . even as a child i saw through the fairy tales .""","""I was n't an fortunate as you . It took me a few years to see through the fairy tale of evolution and see that God was the only true creator .""",,
26300,6921,"""I agree""","""But , do you have a rational explanation for the Big Bang ?""",DISAGREE,"""agree""","""a rational explanation for the Big Bang""",,
26308,6922,"""You believe this .""","""No , I know this to be true . As shown , over and over .""",DISAGREE,"""You believe this .""","""No , I know this to be true . As shown , over and over .""",,
26312,6923,"""Atheists feel that their views are more than a denial of a God ; for them , atheism is also way to find new purpose and meaning in life without confining themselves , or their beliefs , to a set of rules . Quick fix Comparative Religions teacher Cherie McGinn has always been aware of atheism among her students , but says that it is often a temporary belief . McGinn feels atheism can often be a `` quick fix `` for students who are still searching or need a way to declare their independence . '' It 's easier to say ' I do n't believe in God ' than to say , ' I believe in this , `` McGinn explains . According to McGinn , most people who claim to be atheists are probably agnostic , or people who do not believe God 's existence can be proved either way . '' It takes a strong level of commitment and understanding to be a true atheist , `` says McGinn .""","""The `` truth `` about atheism is that it 's the only proposition that makes sense ( apart from agnosticism ? ) to people who conclude , as I do , that religious principles are not based on reason . I know it 's a bit unusual in a public forum but I 'd like to introduce a little personal history here by way of illustration of my path to atheism : I was educated during my most impressionable years ( 11-18 ) at a grammar school controlled by the Jesuits . All my teachers were priests and many were of formidable intellect . Every morning began with `` divine service `` , every lesson was started and ended with a prayer . At noon we sang the Angelus and at 3.30 in the afternoon we finished the school day with Benediction . We had at least one session a day learning and reciting the catechism - so we could be word perfect in our answers to metaphysical questions . Yet all this religious conditioning failed to arouse any spark of faith in me . Sure , I conformed to all outward appearances , but inwardly I rebelled and I did not believe . So why did n't I believe - because my clergymen teachers gave me no REASONS to do so . When , eventually , during my last days at school I chose to reveal my disbelief - the Rector said , `` Well , after all , faith is a gift from God ! `` , and I had received no such gift . Since , in my view , there is no reasoned evidence for God 's existence , why succumb to wish-fulfillment ? It 's less comforting but more honest to be an atheist .""",DISAGREE,"""Atheists feel that their views are more than a denial of a God ; for them , atheism is also way to find new purpose and meaning in life without confining themselves , or their beliefs , to a set of rules . ''""","""The `` truth `` about atheism is that it 's the only proposition that makes sense ( apart from agnosticism ? ) to people who conclude , as I do , that religious principles are not based on reason .""",,
26327,6926,"""Once again , archie ca n't refute the message , so he pathetically attacks the messenger . Arch , in MY opinion , you and your ilk are as dangerous a threat to America as the terrorists who have openly vowed to destroy us .""","""Well you have to admit , nobody with a brain would believe or support what the Brady Bunch is blabbering about this time around . Right on their front page they say `` The bill , H.R . 6691 , would allow nearly anyone , even teenagers and children , to carry loaded assault rifles on the streets of our Nation 's Capital `` but the text of the bill says no such thing . There 's no talk of lowering the age for gun ownership below 18 , which is already federal law , there 's no talk of opening up sales of fully-automatic machineguns capable of firing 1,200 rounds per minute , there 's no talk of the bill opening up sales of .50 caliber rifles that can hit a target at over a mile , there 's nothing . All this bill is gon na do is force DC to be in line with the rest of America . How exactly is that a bad thing , and why should n't we support it ?""",AGREE,"""message , so he pathetically attacks the messenger . Arch , in MY opinion , you and your ilk are as""","""There 's no talk of lowering the age for gun ownership below 18 ,""",,
26332,6926,"""Once again , archie ca n't refute the message , so he pathetically attacks the messenger . Arch , in MY opinion , you and your ilk are as dangerous a threat to America as the terrorists who have openly vowed to destroy us .""","""Well you have to admit , nobody with a brain would believe or support what the Brady Bunch is blabbering about this time around . Right on their front page they say `` The bill , H.R . 6691 , would allow nearly anyone , even teenagers and children , to carry loaded assault rifles on the streets of our Nation 's Capital `` but the text of the bill says no such thing . There 's no talk of lowering the age for gun ownership below 18 , which is already federal law , there 's no talk of opening up sales of fully-automatic machineguns capable of firing 1,200 rounds per minute , there 's no talk of the bill opening up sales of .50 caliber rifles that can hit a target at over a mile , there 's nothing . All this bill is gon na do is force DC to be in line with the rest of America . How exactly is that a bad thing , and why should n't we support it ?""",AGREE,"""Once again , archie ca n't refute the message , so he pathetically attacks the messenger .""","""Well you have to admit""",,
26333,6927,"""How so ... ?""","""I see His presence in the wonderful world around me . I have felt His guiding hand in my life . I know others who have the same knowledge of God .""",DISAGREE,"""How so ... ?""","""His presence in the wonderful world around me""",,
26359,6931,"""Welllll ... I guess I just figured out what the ToE actually is n't : Whatever those who argue against it argue that it is , the proponents argue it is n't . Never can pin down these proponents .""","""We do n't need to know how life arose to study what has apparently happened since .""",DISAGREE,"""Whatever those who argue against it argue that it is , the proponents argue it is n't . Never can pin down these proponents .""","""We do n't need to know how life arose to study what has apparently happened since .""",,
26373,6933,"""Originally posted by Debater A. afarensis was an ape""","""So am I , so are you .""",AGREE,"""Originally posted by Debater A. afarensis was an ape""","""So am I , so are you .""",,
26370,6933,"""Originally posted by Debater A. afarensis was an ape""","""So am I , so are you .""",AGREE,"""afarensis was an ape""","""So am I , so are you .""",,
26394,6937,"""God did n't write the Bible . People wrote it to the best of their understanding . They can be mistaken in their understanding .""","""Well again , this is not what the Bible claims of itself . 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [ is ] given by inspiration of God , and [ is ] profitable for doctrine , for reproof , for correction , for instruction in righteousness : 17 That the man of God may be perfect , throughly furnished unto all good works . In fact , Jesus himself quotes Genesis as though it were literal history ( cf . Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4 , 5 ) . Additionally , Jesus himself said that he was subject to the Old Testament : Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets . I did not come to destroy but to fulfill . The `` law and the prophets `` are a common reference for `` scripture `` or the Old Testament . Either the Bible is what it claims to be , or it is not . If it is not what it claims to be , then how can we possibly trust that Jesus was who he claimed to be ? The two concepts are directly tied together .""",DISAGREE,"""They can be mistaken in their understanding .""","""Either the Bible is what it claims to be , or it is not . If it is not what it claims to be , then how can we possibly trust""",,
26402,6938,"""Leaders of the campaign to outlaw same-sex marriage in California are warning businesses that have given money to the state 's largest gay rights group they will be publicly identified as opponents of traditional unions unless they contribute to the gay marriage ban , too . ProtectMarriage.com , the umbrella group behind a ballot initiative that would overturn the California Supreme Court decision that legalized gay marriage , sent a certified letter this week asking companies to withdraw their support of Equality California , a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8 . '' Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error , `` reads the letter . '' Were you to elect not to donate comparably , it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage . ... The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published. `` The letter was signed by four members of the group 's executive committee : campaign chairman Ron Prentice ; Edward Dolejsi , executive director of the California Catholic Conference ; Mark Jansson , a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ; and Andrew Pugno , the lawyer for ProtectMarriage.com . A donation form was attached . The letter did not say where the names would be published . The unusual appeal reflects the increasing tension surrounding the tight race over Proposition 8 , which would change the California Constitution to limit marriage to a man and a woman . In recent days , both sides in the debate have accused their opponents of threatening their respective campaign volunteers and misleading voters.Calif . gay marriage ban backers target businesses So , evidently now `` blackmail `` is a `` traditional family value `` ? ? ? I do n't think these people have any shame ...""","""They do n't at all ! They even put little innocent kids on their campaign commercials and the giant electronic bilboards on the freeway to give this allure of impending doom . It 's scare tactics and as much as I hate to say it it 's working .... I pass that sign every day I go home from college and I think I 'm the only car in Corona that has a No on 8 sticker . I get a hell of alot of dirty looks believe me . But I just smile and say God loves you too . It 's sickening how dirty these `` moral `` people will go to immoral means to justify their homophobic bigoted views .""",DISAGREE,"""Leaders of the campaign to outlaw same-sex marriage in California are warning businesses that have given money to the state 's largest gay rights group they will be publicly identified as opponents of traditional unions unless they contribute to the gay marriage ban ,""","""They do n't at all ! They even put little innocent kids on their campaign commercials and the giant electronic bilboards on the freeway to give this allure of impending doom .""",,
26428,6942,"""Coming from a person who used to believe in more gun controls ( myself ) , I 'd like to say this post really sums up all the reasons I 've changed my views on gun controls . Not only do they not work the way they are intended to , they make the constitution work the way it was intended to .""","""oh it gets better .... Significant portions of this article are excerpted from Michael Z. Williamson 's excellent and witty piece , It 's amazing what one has to believe to believe in gun control `` 1 . Banning guns works , which is why New York , DC , & amp ; Chicago cops need guns . 2 . Washington DC 's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control , and Indianapolis ' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control . 3 . Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are `` just statistics. `` 4 . The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban , both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates , which have been declining since 1991 . 5 . We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid . 6 . The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals . 7 . An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray , but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you . 8 . A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet . 9 . When confronted by violent criminals , you should `` put up no defense -- give them what they want , or run `` ( Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields , Guns Do n't Die - People Do , 1981 , p.125 ) . 10 . The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns ; just like Guns & amp ; Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery . 11 . One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts , a civil engineer for a better bridge , a surgeon for internal medicine , a computer programmer for hard drive problems , and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise . 12 . The 2nd Amendment , ratified in 1787 , refers to the National Guard , which was created 130 years later , in 1917 . 13 . The National Guard , federally funded , with bases on federal land , using federally-owned weapons , vehicles , buildings and uniforms , punishing trespassers under federal law , is a `` state `` militia . 14 . These phrases : `` right of the people peaceably to assemble , `` `` right of the people to be secure in their homes , `` `` enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people , `` and `` The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively , and to the people `` all refer to individuals , but `` the right of the people to keep and bear arm `` refers to the state . 15 . '' The Constitution is strong and will never change. `` But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd , 4th , and 5th Amendments to that Constitution . 16 . Rifles and handguns are n't necessary to national defense ! Of course , the army has hundreds of thousands of them . 17 . Private citizens should n't have handguns , because they are n't `` military weapons `` , but private citizens should n't have `` assault rifles `` , because they are military weapons . 18 . In spite of waiting periods , background checks , finger printing , government forms , etc. , guns today are too readily available , which is responsible for recent school shootings . In the 1940 's , 1950 's and1960 's , anyone could buy guns at hardware stores , army surplus stores , gas stations , variety stores , Sears mail order , no waiting , no background check , no fingerprints , no government forms and there were no school shootings . 19 . The NRA 's attempt to run a `` do n't touch `` campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda , but the anti-gun lobby 's attempt to run a `` do n't touch `` campaign is responsible social activity . 20 . Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly , and so simple to use that they make murder easy . 21 . A handgun , with up to 4 controls , is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use , as opposed to an automobile that only has 20 . 22 . Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is `` an accident waiting to happen `` and gun makers ' advertisements aimed at women are `` preying on their fears. `` 23 . Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed . 24 . Guns cause violence , which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows . 25 . A majority of the population supports gun control , just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves . 26 . Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a `` weapon of mass destruction `` or an `` assault weapon. `` 27 . Most people ca n't be trusted , so we should have laws against guns , which most people will abide by because they can be trusted . 28 . The right of Internet pornographers to exist can not be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights , but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights . 29 . Free speech entitles one to own newspapers , transmitters , computers , and typewriters , but self-defense only justifies bare hands . 30 . The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution , and the NRA is bad , because it defends other parts of the Constitution . 31 . Charlton Heston , a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored , but Michael Douglas , a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control , Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit . 32 . Police operate with backup within groups , which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do `` civilians `` who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition . 33 . We should ban `` Saturday Night Specials `` and other inexpensive guns because it 's not fair that poor people have access to guns too . 34 . Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over hand guns that private citizens can never hope to obtain . 35 . Private citizens do n't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection . 36 . Citizens do n't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs , who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops , need a gun . 37 . '' Assault weapons `` have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people . The police need assault weapons . You do not . 38 . When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion , that 's bad ; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & amp ; Wesson , that 's good . 39 . Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes , which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon . 40 . Handgun Control , Inc. says they want to `` keep guns out of the wrong hands. `` Guess what ? You have the wrong hands""",AGREE,"""Coming from a person who used to believe in more gun controls ( myself ) , I 'd like to say this post really sums up all the reasons I 've changed my views on gun controls .""","""The police need assault weapons""",,
26442,6945,"""Yet , evolutionists over the decades have mis-characterized many of these adaptive qualities as examples of Darwinian evolution , more specifically selectionist evolution : guppies , cichlids , peppered moths , flies , lizards . [ bold added ]""","""A long time ago , a simple experiment was proposed to supersport . This experiment could easily convince an observer of the validity of his viewpoint . All supersport has to do is tag some Biston betularia such that they can be identified individually , and move typica morphs to polluted areas and carbonaria to cleaner areas . If any individual changes form , supersport would be vindicated . supersport has been ignoring this proposal since its introduction .""",DISAGREE,"""Yet , evolutionists over the decades have mis-characterized many of these adaptive qualities as examples of Darwinian evolution , more specifically selectionist evolution : guppies , cichlids , peppered moths , flies , lizards .""","""A long time ago , a simple experiment was proposed to supersport . This experiment could easily convince an observer of the validity of his viewpoint .""",,
26446,6945,"""Yet , evolutionists over the decades have mis-characterized many of these adaptive qualities as examples of Darwinian evolution , more specifically selectionist evolution : guppies , cichlids , peppered moths , flies , lizards . [ bold added ]""","""A long time ago , a simple experiment was proposed to supersport . This experiment could easily convince an observer of the validity of his viewpoint . All supersport has to do is tag some Biston betularia such that they can be identified individually , and move typica morphs to polluted areas and carbonaria to cleaner areas . If any individual changes form , supersport would be vindicated . supersport has been ignoring this proposal since its introduction .""",DISAGREE,"""Yet , evolutionists over the decades have mis-characterized many of these adaptive qualities as examples of Darwinian evolution ,""","""This experiment could easily convince an observer of the validity of his viewpoint . All supersport has to do is tag some Biston betularia such that they can be identified individually , and move typica morphs to polluted areas and carbonaria to cleaner areas .""",,
26457,6947,"""It does seem like several of them have been particularly nasty lately . Maybe they are getting a pay cut from the groups they shill for or something .""","""You know ... zero from zero is still zero ....""",DISAGREE,"""It does seem like several of them have been particularly nasty lately .""","""You know ... zero from zero is still zero""",,
26462,6948,"""A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State . However , a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( d ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ] A person may only acquire a firearm within the person ’ s own State , except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun , in person , at a licensee 's premises in any State , provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides . A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( b ) ( 3 ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ]""","""I think a more appropriate question would address what laws you believe would have been effective in preventing the scenario that you inquire about . Justin""",DISAGREE,"""sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident possessing firearms under Federal law . rent a firearm to a resident of any State sell or transfer a firearm""","""appropriate question address what laws effective in preventing the scenario that you inquire""",,
26463,6948,"""A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State . However , a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( d ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ] A person may only acquire a firearm within the person ’ s own State , except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun , in person , at a licensee 's premises in any State , provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides . A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( b ) ( 3 ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ]""","""I think a more appropriate question would address what laws you believe would have been effective in preventing the scenario that you inquire about . Justin""",DISAGREE,"""A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law""","""I think a more appropriate question would address what laws you believe would have been effective in preventing the scenario that you inquire about .""",,
26464,6948,"""A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes , if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law . A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State . However , a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( d ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ] A person may only acquire a firearm within the person ’ s own State , except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun , in person , at a licensee 's premises in any State , provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides . A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes . [ 18 U.S.C . 922 ( a ) ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) , 922 ( b ) ( 3 ) , 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30 ]""","""I think a more appropriate question would address what laws you believe would have been effective in preventing the scenario that you inquire about . Justin""",DISAGREE,"""A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State ,""","""I think a more appropriate question would address what laws you believe would have been""",,
26465,6949,"""Are you suggesting that abortion is a judgment of God ? I would agree .""","""So , you have no problem with the fact that this is abortion and was caused by god ?""",DISAGREE,"""Are you suggesting that abortion is a judgment of God ? I would agree .""","""So , you have no problem with the fact that this is abortion and was caused by god ?""",,
26467,6949,"""Are you suggesting that abortion is a judgment of God ? I would agree .""","""So , you have no problem with the fact that this is abortion and was caused by god ?""",DISAGREE,"""abortion is a judgment of God ? I would agree .""","""you have no problem fact that this is abortion and was caused by god ?""",,
26474,6950,"""* The scaracity of erosion , soil must have been deposited in quick succession .""","""I 'm not sure what you 're talking about here .""",DISAGREE,"""The scaracity of erosion , soil must have been deposited in quick succession .""","""I 'm not sure what you 're talking about here .""",,
26498,6957,"""What part of .. 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . ' are you having trouble with ? Only a gullible fool , such as yourself , would lend blind allegiance , and obedience , to a 'world ' body that seeks to usurp the sovereignty of individual nations . That 's why you are indeed a LIBERAL .""","""Why in the name of god would you discuss acceptable reasons for domestic ownership of guns in a conference about curtailing illegal international gun trafficking ? The two are entirely unrelated . I seldom hear of people discussing the benifits of marriage during rape prevention seminars . While the two are concievably related , they are entirely seperate topics .""",DISAGREE,"""What part of .. 'On the other hand , not one acceptable reason for individuals owning guns is mentioned . ' are you having trouble with ?""","""While the two are concievably related , they are entirely seperate topics .""",,
26504,6966,"""I think it is great school kids are learning to speak their minds . These are the future leaders and voters in America . It is good they are learning to make a difference . Bettter than silence !""","""Actually our school 's Gay-Straight Aliance held a day of silence to show respect for gays who have had to live in silence . They asked the teachers to respect the people in their day of silence and not force them to talk . I think most teachers did n't force students to talk . Unfortunately , some just spoke in sign language for fun and said they were doing it as part of the day of silence .""",DISAGREE,"""I think it is great school kids are learning to speak their minds .""","""Actually our school 's Gay-Straight Aliance held a day of silence to show respect for gays who have had to live in silence .""",,
26507,6966,"""I think it is great school kids are learning to speak their minds . These are the future leaders and voters in America . It is good they are learning to make a difference . Bettter than silence !""","""Actually our school 's Gay-Straight Aliance held a day of silence to show respect for gays who have had to live in silence . They asked the teachers to respect the people in their day of silence and not force them to talk . I think most teachers did n't force students to talk . Unfortunately , some just spoke in sign language for fun and said they were doing it as part of the day of silence .""",DISAGREE,"""I think it is great school kids are learning to speak their minds . Bettter than silence !""","""our school 's Gay-Straight Aliance held a day of silence to show respect for gays who have had to live in silence ,""",,
26513,6967,"""What about the amount of water the earth holds and how much it would take to flood the earth ?""","""actually i have a fuzzy theory on how the water on the earth could actually cover land . most scientist agree that the 7 continents were at one point one single flat super-continent ( gondowaland , i think ) . after the continent sections drifted apart , only then did the himalayas and other major mountain ranges and ocean gorges formed . so it could have been possible that all land mass could have been covered by a heavy enough global rain shower , at least until it all drained off . however , scientists argue that this supercontinent existed millions of years before noah , so yall can scrap that idea ... unless the scientists were wrong and the continental split happened quickly , while the earth was under water ... nevermind ... like i said , a fuzzy theory""",DISAGREE,"""What about the amount of water the earth holds and how much it would take to flood the earth ?""","""scientists argue that this supercontinent existed millions of years before noah , so yall can scrap that idea""",,
26540,6973,"""By killing thousands of innocent civilians that were the purported `` victims `` of those who we are attacking . We devalue human life when we drop a bomb into a residential neighborhood and kill innocent men , women , and children .""","""You seem to think that any time someone is killed , the reasoning behind it was that the perpetrator `` devalued human life `` . If that was the case , gun manufacturers , car manufacturers , breweries , and cigarette manufacturers would `` devalue human life `` simply because they make these products knowing that people will die from their use/abuse . And the government would `` devalue human life `` by letting these companies operate under it . We do not go targeting innocent civilians . More often than not , the civilians are killed by Iraqi suicide bombers or `` militia `` , and the few that are killed by the US are accidents .""",DISAGREE,"""By killing thousands of innocent civilians that were the purported `` victims""","""the civilians are killed by Iraqi suicide bombers or `` militia `` , and the few that are killed by the US are accidents .""",,
26543,6973,"""By killing thousands of innocent civilians that were the purported `` victims `` of those who we are attacking . We devalue human life when we drop a bomb into a residential neighborhood and kill innocent men , women , and children .""","""You seem to think that any time someone is killed , the reasoning behind it was that the perpetrator `` devalued human life `` . If that was the case , gun manufacturers , car manufacturers , breweries , and cigarette manufacturers would `` devalue human life `` simply because they make these products knowing that people will die from their use/abuse . And the government would `` devalue human life `` by letting these companies operate under it . We do not go targeting innocent civilians . More often than not , the civilians are killed by Iraqi suicide bombers or `` militia `` , and the few that are killed by the US are accidents .""",DISAGREE,"""We devalue human life when we drop a bomb into a residential neighborhood and kill innocent men , women , and children .""","""You seem to think that any time someone is killed , the reasoning behind it was that the perpetrator `` devalued human life ``""",,
26544,6974,"""Also , you dictate what others do all the time . Maybe indirectly but the official you vote for create laws which restrict freedoms . This is needed for society .""","""Yes and no . I agree that civilized society must restrict certain behavior from time to time . However , a person 's right in choosing what is best for them is not something that should ever be restricted . If there are consequences for our actions , we should be prepared to accept them , either in the eyes of the law , or in that god fellow so many people talk about . What did he say ? Judge not lest ye be judged ? Now I do n't know if that god fellow is for real or not , but those sound like pretty good words anyway . There were some very learned people who wrote in the bible . It 's too bad that society has forgoten some of the lessons handed down to use over the last 2000 years .""",DISAGREE,"""you dictate what others do all the time . Maybe indirectly the official you vote for create laws which restrict freedoms needed for society .""","""I agree that civilized society must restrict certain behavior a person 's right in choosing what is best for them is not something that should ever be restricted""",,
26568,6978,"""The growth in complexity of physical organisms is analogous to the growth of social complexity in human societies : the study of the former can throw light on the development of the latter .""","""Much of history is cyclical . I am unaware of evolution being mapped in such the same manner .""",DISAGREE,"""The growth in complexity of physical organisms analogous to the growth of social complexity the study of the former can throw light on the development of the latter""","""Much of history is cyclical . unaware of evolution being mapped in such the same manner""",,
26605,6988,"""My main issue is with the single common ancestor model and the only other viable explanation for the origin of life on earth , creationsim . I see the publication of Darwin 's Origin of Species to be a watershed event that permenantly established the single common ancestor model as the foundation of evolutionary biology .""","""That 's one problem . Creationism ( christian ) is n't the only other `` viable `` ( if you call it that ) system of origin . ( well , evolution is the only viable on in real , but to further the conversation ) , There are many others . Christianity is only one religion , and it 's not even the largest one . All religions have equally `` valid `` systems of origin . ALl of these religions , however , are hopelessly mythical and subjective . Most people set up a bifurcation ; they do n't realise that christianity 's creationism is n't the only other option .""",DISAGREE,"""main issue is with the single common ancestor model and the only other viable explanation for the origin of life on earth""","""one problem Creationism ( christian ) is n't the only other `` viable ``""",,
26621,6991,"""By what standard does 'love ' include causing infinite suffering ? Do you intentionally cause suffering to anyone you love ?""","""Sometimes God allows Satan to cause suffering to His people and to Christians in order for them to grow stronger and as a form of punishment . Note that God did n't decide he wanted the Israelites to suffer on the spur of the moment . It was their constant disobedience that put them in the situtations they were in .""",DISAGREE,"""By what standard does 'love ' include causing infinite suffering ?""","""Sometimes God allows Satan to cause suffering to His people and to Christians in order for them to grow stronger and as a form of punishment .""",,
26640,6994,"""Under then bill pushed through in the middle of the night : 1.a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee will see his costs rise by 178 % . 2.A small business in Richmond with eight employees will see a 23 % increase . 3.Insurance for a 40-year-old family with two kids in Indianapolis will pay 106 % more 4.Collection of payroll taxes for the new plan will begin Jan. 2010 , but benefits do n't start until 2014 . 5 . Payment to doctors for Medicare patients will decrease 21.5 % next year and more after that . How many doctors do you think will continue to treat Medicare patients when that happens ? 6 . The plan will cost $ 871Billion over the next decate , but 98 % of the cost occurs after 2014 . 7 . Medical device manufacturers pay $ 2Billion/year in taxes . This will rise to $ 3Billion/year in 2018 , removing $ 1Billion that could be used for R & amp ; D and adding it to the cost of current devices instead . 8 . The rest of the country will pay ALL of Nebraska 's state contributions to Medicare FOREVER because that was the bribe that the Democrats made for the 60th vote . Now , Cake Lady , prove me wrong !""","""Well , this comes from the same people who invented the death pannels . The truth is that all the developed countries ( all of Europe , Canada , Japan , Australia , New Zealand , Taiwan , Israel ) have universal healthcare . Their COST per capita is about half of ours . They have better outcomes . Universal healthcare has been tried in many places and it does work . What does not work is our current system . Wellpoint has just increased premiums by 30 % even wiyhout a reform bill . They spend 30 % on administrative costs . BTW , do you oppose the bill that would force them to limit the administrative costs to 20 % ?""",DISAGREE,"""healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee will see his costs rise by 178 % . a""","""this comes from the same people who invented the death pannels .""",,
26642,6994,"""Under then bill pushed through in the middle of the night : 1.a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee will see his costs rise by 178 % . 2.A small business in Richmond with eight employees will see a 23 % increase . 3.Insurance for a 40-year-old family with two kids in Indianapolis will pay 106 % more 4.Collection of payroll taxes for the new plan will begin Jan. 2010 , but benefits do n't start until 2014 . 5 . Payment to doctors for Medicare patients will decrease 21.5 % next year and more after that . How many doctors do you think will continue to treat Medicare patients when that happens ? 6 . The plan will cost $ 871Billion over the next decate , but 98 % of the cost occurs after 2014 . 7 . Medical device manufacturers pay $ 2Billion/year in taxes . This will rise to $ 3Billion/year in 2018 , removing $ 1Billion that could be used for R & amp ; D and adding it to the cost of current devices instead . 8 . The rest of the country will pay ALL of Nebraska 's state contributions to Medicare FOREVER because that was the bribe that the Democrats made for the 60th vote . Now , Cake Lady , prove me wrong !""","""Well , this comes from the same people who invented the death pannels . The truth is that all the developed countries ( all of Europe , Canada , Japan , Australia , New Zealand , Taiwan , Israel ) have universal healthcare . Their COST per capita is about half of ours . They have better outcomes . Universal healthcare has been tried in many places and it does work . What does not work is our current system . Wellpoint has just increased premiums by 30 % even wiyhout a reform bill . They spend 30 % on administrative costs . BTW , do you oppose the bill that would force them to limit the administrative costs to 20 % ?""",DISAGREE,"""Under then bill pushed through in the middle of the night : 1.a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee will see his costs rise by 178 % . 2.A small business""","""Wellpoint has just increased premiums by 30 % even wiyhout a reform bill .""",,
26665,6998,"""pregnancy is not a human being . A pregnancy is part of a human being .""","""Biologically speaking , the fetus is human ; the mother person is simply sustaining it via blood -- just like via mother 's milk after birth . Can she legally starve the newborn child of that ( if no other suitable nourishment is available ) simply because she has the `` right to her body ? `` I think no , by law .""",AGREE,"""A pregnancy is part of a human being .""","""the fetus is human ; the mother person is simply sustaining it via blood""",,
26700,7005,"""I suspect that a lot of people , if not most people , at least partially follow some version of `` treat others as you would have yourself be treated `` . When , as children , we were scolded `` How would you like it if ... `` that is a tactic of teaching this rule . For those who are religious ( which I only marginally , occasionally and hesitatingly am ) , even Jesus stated `` Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. `` in the Sermon on the Mount talk ( as quoted by ShadowPikachu ) . Many world religions and philosophies seem to incorporate that general rule , which is partly why I think it has a reasonable chance at being incorporated as a global base of morality .""","""Exactly . Most people would incorporate it , from childhood most often . Steeeeve ca n't seem to wrap his mind around that .""",AGREE,"""people `` you . to others whatever you would like them to do to""","""Exactly . Most people would incorporate it ,""",,
26702,7005,"""I suspect that a lot of people , if not most people , at least partially follow some version of `` treat others as you would have yourself be treated `` . When , as children , we were scolded `` How would you like it if ... `` that is a tactic of teaching this rule . For those who are religious ( which I only marginally , occasionally and hesitatingly am ) , even Jesus stated `` Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. `` in the Sermon on the Mount talk ( as quoted by ShadowPikachu ) . Many world religions and philosophies seem to incorporate that general rule , which is partly why I think it has a reasonable chance at being incorporated as a global base of morality .""","""Exactly . Most people would incorporate it , from childhood most often . Steeeeve ca n't seem to wrap his mind around that .""",AGREE,"""Many world religions and philosophies seem to incorporate that general rule""","""Exactly . Most people would incorporate it""",,
26708,7007,"""You clam something can be outside the scope of knowledge ( science ) . To claim so is a contradiction , you can not claim to know something of the unknowable . It 's by definition ... yes , as we 've been through this countless times , UNKNOWABLE .""","""Actually `` I do n't know `` is quite a valid answer in science . However , again you slip into this false construct of a belief that all that can be known is in the scope of science ; which you 've also denied saying you believe in the past . [ quote=Montalban ] Is this a rational statement ? If so , prove it rationally , by science .""",DISAGREE,"""you can not claim to know something of the unknowable""","""Actually `` I do n't know `` is quite a valid answer in science .""",,
26729,7013,"""Of course it is . It is just one more cog in the wheel of our moral and social decline that will lead to our complete destruction as a rational and civilized Society . And the radical gay agenda has proven they have the same ethics as Al-Queda and practices a scorched Earth Policy too . You will gladly tear down our Democracy in order to gain the undeserved rights you demand for yourselves . You see nothing wrong with forcing the majority of the population to submit to the immoral will of a tiny minority when all of the human and civil rights protections have already been afforded you . But that is not enough for you . You must force your unnatural lifestyles in our faces and then insist we are bigots for not enjoying or just accepting the perversions you see as natural , normal and right . Just because you ca n't see , or refuse to see the long term negative effects of your unnatural lifestyle being imposed on the larger society , it does n't for one minute mean they are n't real and evident in their destructive consequences .""","""Archie , the ONLY issue that gays do n't have a majority support for gay equality on is gay marriage . That 's it . Laws against sodomy ? Majority oppose them . Laws against gay adoption ? Majority oppose them . Laws against gays in the military ? Majority oppose them . Hate crime legislation for gays ? Majority supports them . ENDA ? Majority support . Even CIVIL UNIONS has a majority support . But you are too swept up in your self-assumed superiority to recognize when you are standing alone ... I am laughing at the fact that you are fighting against people who comment on SOME Christian actions against gays , but then you EXUDE the very thing we are talking about . You become a living example . Quite frankly Archie , I think you are a thorough embarrassment to most of the other anti-gay posters on these threads . Comparing gays to al Qaeda ? And I thought Robertson and Falwell were when they tried to associate gays as a cause to the issue of 9/11 .""",DISAGREE,"""You will gladly tear down our Democracy in order to gain the undeserved rights you demand for yourselves .""","""But you are too swept up in your self-assumed superiority to recognize when you are standing alone""",,
26735,7015,"""I do not see any problem with the Jehova 's or any other 's idea of a scriptural account . Once the debate has begun , I will not make another post until the end . One week sounds reasonable - you might want to post within a shorter gap later on , but that will be up to the person posting . You should both be able to post in your own time . A week is sufficient , I should think . I recommend that no limit be placed on posts , but that it is recommended that posts stay generally smaller . It 's far more challenging to be succint than to write gallons . One more tip : it 's a good idea to , in your first posts , include definition so that terms might be clarified , and it avoids later , unecessary hassle . If we just wait for Hank 's clarification on those few points , then we can then begin !""","""I know this would be somewhat of a drain on your time but I think it would be helpful if you would make a short post at the end of each post stating how much time the next poster has , what post number this is , how many are left , any comments concerning going outside the rules , etc .""",DISAGREE,"""I do not see any problem with the Jehova 's or any other 's idea of a scriptural account""","""I think it would be helpful if you would make a short post at the end of each post stating how much time the next poster has""",,
26757,7019,"""Thanks Archangel , There is definately enough for me to look over here . Yes , I will let you know how the program develops . Spring is only 4 months away !""","""None of the 'fishersci ' links would take , but I did get a look at the fibre optic systems . Will try again later .""",AGREE,"""Yes , I will let you know how the program develops . Spring is only 4 months away !""","""None of the 'fishersci ' links would take , but I did get a look at the fibre optic systems .""",,
26766,7021,"""Since the universe must have had a finite existence , it must have been created .""","""You mean that it must have has a beginning , do n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""Since the universe must have had a finite existence , it must have been created .""","""You mean that it must have has a beginning , do n't you ?""",,
26771,7022,"""Gun angle . Sinjin . This is not an Anti-union rant . This is a DC police , and Township police question . SEIU Service Employees Union International . In other words , all of the people involved are employed by the Government . That means they work for us . The Police are employed by us . The DC Police backed the SEIU , and the article said they were there to protect SEIU . And maybe even worse than that , is the fact that the township police were maybe either afraid of SEIU or were sympathetic to their goals . And Screw that ! ! ! ! ! ! They are employed to protect the people on that street . Otherwise , we have anarchy . But , it is a fact that , Everyone there is employed by us . However , if this not be the case , I asked for an explanation that makes sense . But , if this be true , and if it is n't brought under control , are we then supposed to then fear our very own police because maybe they belong to SEIU , or hope to join ? Or something ? Or whatever ? I do n't know . Then who do we trust ? Whom can we then count on besides ourselves ? If that be the case , what do we need police for ? If the home owner does n't know who is the enemy in this situation , and who is coming to help , this is a tragic circumstance I do n't even want to contemplate ! Too much corruption for my small brain to try and figure out ! I can tell you that much ! Can SEIU take over law enforcement just that easily ? Are we subject to be held up by a Police Union ? I do n't know the answers to these questions . So I asked for help figuring it out . I think you belong to SEIU , are you proud of this situation ? It also turns out that the Bank Executive worked for the Clinton Administration so I am defending someone from your party . This is n't partisanship !""","""I 'm sorry , but your entire rant is nothing but ignorance based fear mongering . From YOUR ARTICLE :""",DISAGREE,"""This is not an Anti-union rant""","""but your entire rant is nothing but ignorance based fear mongering""",,
26795,7028,"""humans did not evolve from Blobs , they did not `` evolve `` from fishes , this is not reality , the first humans looked exactly like us today as the human race looked 2000 years ago .""","""Really ? How do you explain this picture ? http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comd ... /hominids2.jpg I 'm really interested .""",DISAGREE,"""humans did not evolve from Blobs , they did not `` evolve `` from fishes""","""Really ? How do you explain this picture ?""",,
26803,7030,"""Easily :""","""Not really when you consider the gun laws of the UK , and how they were changed to prevent incidents like Cumbria from ever happening .""",DISAGREE,"""Easily""","""Not really when you consider the gun laws of the UK ,""",,
26818,7033,"""Personally against abortion .... but pro-choice . I have heard this many times and have yet to understand the basis for this position .""","""Perhaps an analogy . Lets say for the sake of the argument you do not smoke or drink ( personally against it , for whatever reason ) . However , you believe others should have the right to drink and smoke if they so choose . So , you are personally against drinking and smoking but you are `` pro-choice `` in that regard ( meaning you believe every person should make that determination for themselves ) . Pro-life would be : You do n't drink and smoke ( morally against it perhaps ) and you are going to make sure that no one else is able to either .""",DISAGREE,""". I have yet to understand the basis for this position""","""Perhaps an analogy""",,
26825,7034,"""You ONLY post anti-Christian threads , even though Christianity has been responsible for much of the good in the world .""","""Quite frankly , you do n't know squat about me . So stop trying to pretend you do . I have gone on record to say I think Christianity does a lot of good in the world . I have even tried to correct Matthew in his anti-Christian tirades . ( Until I gave up realizing it would do no good ... ) I hate to break it to you , but the WORLD typically functions with people putting out negative news . You hear about how Joe Blow broke the law . Do you ever hear about how Johnny Atlas keeps the law ?""",DISAGREE,"""You ONLY post anti-Christian threads""","""you do n't know squat about me .""",,
26828,7035,"""Primitive and immature as compared to what or whom ?""","""Do you think humans have the pinnacle of processing power and reason in our brain for the entire universe ? ( aside from god )""",DISAGREE,"""Primitive and immature as compared to what or whom""","""Do you think humans have the pinnacle of processing power and reason in our brain""",,
26841,7037,"""The 10 commandments are a real time story , told and recorded by the person with whom it happened to ... Moses . Genesis , is a history lesson , told by a man who had no understanding of modern science , or the language to describe it in that fashion ... Moses .""","""No , genesis is not a history lesson . It is a combination of 'just so ' stories , and a religious message in allegory format . If you bothered to learn understand some of the hebrew puns behind many of the words , and also see the political commentary of events that were happening during the time it was written , that would be obvious .""",DISAGREE,"""The 10 commandments are a real time story""","""No , genesis is not a history lesson .""",,
26848,7039,"""* Yes , evolution is a theory . Then again , what is God ?""","""Well , it seems pretty evident that you have know idea of the meaning of the word theory when used in science .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , evolution is a theory . Then again , what is God ?""","""it seems pretty evident that you have know idea of the meaning of the word theory when used in science .""",,
26853,7040,"""Only a complete XXXXX , devoid of even the slightest measurable amount of critical thinking skills , would support Chicago 's handgun ban .""","""A textbook description of a liberal !""",AGREE,"""would support Chicago 's handgun ban""","""A textbook description of a liberal !""",,
26861,7041,"""I can not prove that my belief in my specific God is true any more then I can prove that leprechauns , unicorns , the flying spaghetti monster , magical space monkeys and living care bears exists . That does n't mean I do n't believe in God however .""","""actually , it can be proven whether leprechauns , unicorns , the flying spaghetti monster , magical space monkeys and livining care baers , and even god , exists or not . the question of proving a belief seems kinda self-contradictory to me . if something is a fact that can be proven , then your belief about it is irrelevant . likewise , if you believe something , whether there are facts to support it or not , its still your belief . there are people who believe things inn the absence of supporting facts , and sometimes even in the face of opposing facts . the term for that is faith faith is the belief of something in the absence of evidence . if you have faith in something , proof is irrelevant , or at least it should be""",DISAGREE,"""That does n't mean I do n't believe in God however""","""if you have faith in something , proof is irrelevant , or at least it should be""",,
26864,7042,"""... except for the surprising lack of feathers present .""","""I 'm not sure what you are saying . Are you saying that you think that theropod dinosaurs should have more feathers than this Sinornithosaurus does ? First you claim that the entire forelimb would have been useless , and when shown that it was not you claim that the feathers could not have existed because they would be useless , and now when shown a fossil that shows feathers , you are surprised that there are not more . I suspect that not all of the feathers on this creature are apparent in the fossil . http : //research.amnh.org/vertpaleo/feather5.jpg http : //research.amnh.org/vertpaleo/feather9a.jpg http : //research.amnh.org/vertpaleo/feather11.jpg But there are enough to show that feathered dinosaurs did , in fact exist . Any argument about whether or not is is possible that such creatures existed is moot . It is irrelevant that you feel that such limbs would have been useless . Obviously they were not . So now we return to your original confused and erroneous arguments .""",DISAGREE,"""except for the surprising lack of feathers present .""","""I 'm not sure what you are saying . Are you saying that you think that theropod dinosaurs should have more feathers than this Sinornithosaurus does ?""",,
26884,7045,"""When 'evidence ' is interpreted , it is interpreted by flawed and failed humans with biases just like everyone else 's .""","""Right . That certainly explains the many , many versions of Christianity .""",AGREE,"""it is interpreted by flawed and failed humans with biases""","""That certainly explains the many , many versions of Christianity""",,
26894,7047,"""Jyoshu pretty much answered for me so I wo n't go back but I will say that your morality is formed based on arbitrary things as well . Whether you believe in a god or make yourself god you still are making arbitrary rules for which you develop a morality . The idea that you do n't want to suffer and therefore came up with this morality is abritrary as everything we have stated . Why was n't the conclusion `` I dont ' want to suffer so be stronger than everyone else `` or `` I do n't want to suffer so do n't associate with anyone else `` . Or maybe the conslusion could be to believe in a religion . Either way , you are going to have to believe in something and that forms the basis for a morality .""","""My stance on morality is based on the following observations : 1 . '' I `` for me means my mental self , with my physical self just tagging along . 2 . I do not wish to suffer or to have those I care about suffer . 3 . I feel empathy toward others and often feel sorry for the suffering of others . Those are observations , not proclamations . The way I choose a moral code to avoid the problem of suffering is to essentially make a theoretical deal with others to have a mutual moral code that we will all treat each other as we ourselves would be treated - in this way , all of us can win out and I solve my problem of points 2 and 3 . Perhaps there are other better ways of finding a solution for societies to avoid suffering , but I have n't heard of one . I did not choose this solution arbitrarily . I chose it since it makes sense and should theoretically work and since many , if not most people , at least make some effort at using that moral code anyway so this moral code is at least partially universally adopted . It is the best moral option I have ever heard to address my concern about suffering . What is arbitrary about the reasoning I presented above ? What unsupported proclamations do you claim that I have made ? Either way , are you proposing that all moral systems are equally arbitrary and therefore equally valid ? In your scenario , someone could come up with an arbitrary proclamation `` black people should be slaves to white people `` and build a morality based on that . My moral approach questions that proclamation as well and thus avoids un-necessary human suffering .""",DISAGREE,"""The idea that you do n't want to suffer and therefore came up with this morality is abritrary as everything we have stated .""","""My stance on morality is based on the following observations : 1 . '' I `` for me means my mental self , with my physical self just tagging along . 2 . I do not wish to suffer or to have those I care about suffer .""",,
26892,7047,"""Jyoshu pretty much answered for me so I wo n't go back but I will say that your morality is formed based on arbitrary things as well . Whether you believe in a god or make yourself god you still are making arbitrary rules for which you develop a morality . The idea that you do n't want to suffer and therefore came up with this morality is abritrary as everything we have stated . Why was n't the conclusion `` I dont ' want to suffer so be stronger than everyone else `` or `` I do n't want to suffer so do n't associate with anyone else `` . Or maybe the conslusion could be to believe in a religion . Either way , you are going to have to believe in something and that forms the basis for a morality .""","""My stance on morality is based on the following observations : 1 . '' I `` for me means my mental self , with my physical self just tagging along . 2 . I do not wish to suffer or to have those I care about suffer . 3 . I feel empathy toward others and often feel sorry for the suffering of others . Those are observations , not proclamations . The way I choose a moral code to avoid the problem of suffering is to essentially make a theoretical deal with others to have a mutual moral code that we will all treat each other as we ourselves would be treated - in this way , all of us can win out and I solve my problem of points 2 and 3 . Perhaps there are other better ways of finding a solution for societies to avoid suffering , but I have n't heard of one . I did not choose this solution arbitrarily . I chose it since it makes sense and should theoretically work and since many , if not most people , at least make some effort at using that moral code anyway so this moral code is at least partially universally adopted . It is the best moral option I have ever heard to address my concern about suffering . What is arbitrary about the reasoning I presented above ? What unsupported proclamations do you claim that I have made ? Either way , are you proposing that all moral systems are equally arbitrary and therefore equally valid ? In your scenario , someone could come up with an arbitrary proclamation `` black people should be slaves to white people `` and build a morality based on that . My moral approach questions that proclamation as well and thus avoids un-necessary human suffering .""",DISAGREE,"""Whether you believe in a god or make yourself god you still are making arbitrary rules for which you develop a morality .""","""for me means my mental self , with my physical self just tagging along . 2 . I do not wish to suffer or to have those I care about suffer . 3 . I feel empathy toward others and often feel sorry for the suffering of others .""",,
26900,7048,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""Leaving aside for a moment the false construct you 're arguing against you should read up ... The Pseudo-Problem of Creation in Physical Cosmology by Adolf Grünbaum http : //www.infidels.org/library/mode ... m/problem.html `` As Bondi sees it , the steady-state theory propounded by himself and Thomas Gold in 1948 brings `` the problem of creation . . . within the scope of physical inquiry `` ( Ibid . ) Although some theories are deemed defunct , such as the one above , your assumptions about such things being outside the scope of science is flawed .""",DISAGREE,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something""","""Thomas Gold in 1948 brings `` the problem of creation . . . within the scope of physical inquiry ``""",,
26898,7048,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""Leaving aside for a moment the false construct you 're arguing against you should read up ... The Pseudo-Problem of Creation in Physical Cosmology by Adolf Grünbaum http : //www.infidels.org/library/mode ... m/problem.html `` As Bondi sees it , the steady-state theory propounded by himself and Thomas Gold in 1948 brings `` the problem of creation . . . within the scope of physical inquiry `` ( Ibid . ) Although some theories are deemed defunct , such as the one above , your assumptions about such things being outside the scope of science is flawed .""",DISAGREE,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""Leaving aside for a moment the false construct you 're arguing against you should read up""",,
26902,7048,"""To support creation you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""Leaving aside for a moment the false construct you 're arguing against you should read up ... The Pseudo-Problem of Creation in Physical Cosmology by Adolf Grünbaum http : //www.infidels.org/library/mode ... m/problem.html `` As Bondi sees it , the steady-state theory propounded by himself and Thomas Gold in 1948 brings `` the problem of creation . . . within the scope of physical inquiry `` ( Ibid . ) Although some theories are deemed defunct , such as the one above , your assumptions about such things being outside the scope of science is flawed .""",DISAGREE,"""you must first tackle the concept of something `` outside `` the knowable universe .""","""your assumptions about such things being outside the scope of science is flawed .""",,
26914,7050,"""Each atom is alive , it 's an energy form , your consciousness transforms your atomic structure to meet the requirements of the enviroment in which you exsist . This explains why people have different colour skin , and why elephants have big ears , and why fish have fins , etc .""","""So why is it a white man ca n't just think himself black , or vice versa ?""",DISAGREE,"""your consciousness transforms your atomic structure to meet the requirements of the enviroment in which you exsist . This explains why people have different colour skin""","""why is it a white man ca n't just think himself black ?""",,
26915,7051,"""Geologic time/millions of years ago ( mybp ) /days per year late Precambrian/900mybp/487 days earliest Cambrian Period/600mybp/424 days early Ordovician Period/500mybp/412 days middle Devonian Period/370mybp/398 days Permo-Triassic boundary/245mybp/386 days `` Jurassic Park `` /180mybp/381 days end Cretaceous ( Chixulub ) /65mybp/371 days""","""But that does n't help much with calculating the length of a day from actual astronomical observations . Perhaps if we told Freeofthought that the current rate of slowing of the earth is 0.005 sec/year/year . I have no doubt that Freeofthought will misunderstand that number - it is a rate . Just assume that rate has been unchanging even though it has n't been . A lot of the creationists misunderstanding comes from remarks like the following .""",AGREE,"""Geologic time/millions of years ago ( mybp ) /days""","""But that does n't help calculating the length of a day from actual astronomical observations .""",,
26924,7052,"""not sure about that . Viralistic ? That does n't seem to make alot of sense . Most of humanity is n't actively invading and replicating itself for seemingly no real reason .""","""I dunno , I keep seeing more and more chinese around here ! ! And they all have 3 kids ! They come over here just so they can breed . They invade a host that is more favorable for replication . Viral ! [ please , this is a joke , any chinese out there , just a joke ! ]""",DISAGREE,"""not sure about that . Viralistic ?""","""I dunno""",,
26931,7053,"""As I have pointed out , the only BS here is your accusations .""","""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""",DISAGREE,"""the only BS here is your accusations .""","""Not the way I see it from my experiences .""",,
26927,7053,"""As I have pointed out , the only BS here is your accusations .""","""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""",DISAGREE,"""As I have pointed out , the only BS here is your accusations .""","""Not the way I see it from my experiences . I let the readers decide on their own .""",,
26934,7054,"""The quality of life ethic is far different from sactity/dignity of life ethic . A quality of life ethic carried out to its logical conclusions does not promote a pro-life society . Instead , there would be genocide against the handicapped , elderly , and people who people of power have deemed life unworthy of life . The problem with this ethic is that it is centered in arbritrary people deciding arbritarily which person passes the `` quality of life `` test .""","""The interesting thing about the 'quality of life ethic ' is that , in a pro-choice framework , it means that we ca n't degrade anyone 's quality of life without their permission . So far from entailing a cull of the elderly , the infirm , the handicapped , and the ugly , the quality of life ethic entails that we can not kill them off . Each person is entitled to the quality of life that they desire where what they desire does not infringe on other 's quality of life .""",AGREE,"""The quality of life ethic is far different from sactity/dignity of life ethic .""","""about the 'quality of life ethic ' is that , in a pro-choice , it means that we ca n't degrade anyone 's quality of life without their permission""",,
26933,7054,"""The quality of life ethic is far different from sactity/dignity of life ethic . A quality of life ethic carried out to its logical conclusions does not promote a pro-life society . Instead , there would be genocide against the handicapped , elderly , and people who people of power have deemed life unworthy of life . The problem with this ethic is that it is centered in arbritrary people deciding arbritarily which person passes the `` quality of life `` test .""","""The interesting thing about the 'quality of life ethic ' is that , in a pro-choice framework , it means that we ca n't degrade anyone 's quality of life without their permission . So far from entailing a cull of the elderly , the infirm , the handicapped , and the ugly , the quality of life ethic entails that we can not kill them off . Each person is entitled to the quality of life that they desire where what they desire does not infringe on other 's quality of life .""",AGREE,"""The quality of life ethic is far different from sactity/dignity of life ethic""","""about the 'quality of life ethic ' , in a pro-choice framework , it means that we ca n't degrade anyone 's quality of life without their permission .""",,
26975,7068,"""One town of guys with shotguns wo n't cow the US Military , and a .45 is n't much good against an F-15 . So unless one is prepared to argue that civilians should have the right to own similar weaponry , heavy artillery , even nuclear weapons , this argument must fall.This argument would lead to the conclusion that to adequately combat the government , private citizens would need to have machine guns , bazookas , shoulder launched missiles , tanks , blackhawk helicopters , and yes even nuclear weapons . Again , this exemplifies the idiocy of the NRA 's arguments .""","""So police who are not military and are civilians , unless you are paid by the DOD and come under the geneva Convention you are a civilian period . If you had of paid attention , you should know that it is not the `` standing army `` that is fighting the current wars , it is oath taking militia/civilians from the State National Guards and reserve forces who have taken the same oath many of us have , to protect the Constitution from all enemies both domestic and foreign . That is not to say that only those people are the militia either ! Can you name one successful government that has ever won a guerrilla war ? Russia fought in Afghanistan for how long before it limped back home ?""",DISAGREE,"""One town of guys with shotguns wo n't cow the US Military , and a .45 is n't much good against an F-15 .""","""If you had of paid attention , you should know that it is not the `` standing army `` that is fighting the current wars , it is oath taking militia/civilians from the State National Guards and reserve forces who have taken the same oath many of us have , to protect the Constitution from all enemies both domestic and foreign .""",,
26980,7068,"""One town of guys with shotguns wo n't cow the US Military , and a .45 is n't much good against an F-15 . So unless one is prepared to argue that civilians should have the right to own similar weaponry , heavy artillery , even nuclear weapons , this argument must fall.This argument would lead to the conclusion that to adequately combat the government , private citizens would need to have machine guns , bazookas , shoulder launched missiles , tanks , blackhawk helicopters , and yes even nuclear weapons . Again , this exemplifies the idiocy of the NRA 's arguments .""","""So police who are not military and are civilians , unless you are paid by the DOD and come under the geneva Convention you are a civilian period . If you had of paid attention , you should know that it is not the `` standing army `` that is fighting the current wars , it is oath taking militia/civilians from the State National Guards and reserve forces who have taken the same oath many of us have , to protect the Constitution from all enemies both domestic and foreign . That is not to say that only those people are the militia either ! Can you name one successful government that has ever won a guerrilla war ? Russia fought in Afghanistan for how long before it limped back home ?""",DISAGREE,"""One town of guys with shotguns wo n't cow the US Military""","""you should know that it is not the `` standing army `` that is fighting the current wars , it is oath taking militia/civilians""",,
27010,7073,"""Are those weapons registered ?""","""Since they are issued by the military I would think so .""",AGREE,"""Are those weapons registered""","""they are issued by the military""",,
27013,7074,"""Then do n't post because there is no reason any of us should listen to you . You are just a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black .""","""So I am not intitled to my opinions ? Your statement is so ironic because it seems that others also suffer from pot and kettleism and do n't realize it .""",DISAGREE,"""Then do n't post because there is no reason any of us should listen to you . You are just a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black .""","""So I am not intitled to my opinions ?""",,
27020,7075,"""lol , zenodotus . You refute your own point and strengthen mine . You stated that we can not know whether the fetus is or is not morally a person , yet now you state that the fetus is morally a person to you ? That was my point , that we can know because some think it is morally a person and some think it is not morally a person . Me stating that is was not morally a person to me was merely an example .""","""Just as you were stating that it was not as an example , so was I stating that it was to me as an example . So , your reasoning that we can know if it is or is not a person is because people disagree on whether or not it is ? That theory could use a bit more explanation .""",DISAGREE,"""You refute your own point and strengthen mine .""","""Just as you were stating that it was not as an example , so was I stating that it was to me as an example""",,
27039,7085,"""Religion does not answer neither 'how ' nor 'why ' but seems to satisfy the majority of people by just saying : `` God made it so `` and who would argue with that ?""","""So essentially the good thing about religion is that it poses a question that may or may not be completely meaningless and then invents a happy-making answer to satisfy the curiosity thus engendered ? Wow , that 's so much more profound than eradicating smallpox .""",DISAGREE,"""Religion does not answer neither 'how ' nor 'why ' but seems to satisfy the majority of people by just saying : `` God made it so `` and who would argue with that ?""","""So essentially the good thing about religion is that it poses a question that may or may not be completely meaningless and then invents a happy-making answer to satisfy the curiosity thus engendered ?""",,
27044,7086,"""He was a gun owner and a terrorist .""","""How do you know he was a gun owner ? Maybe he borrowed it . And I bet he was a carnivore , walked upright and drove a car , as well .""",DISAGREE,"""He was a gun owner and a terrorist .""","""How do you know he was a gun owner ? Maybe he borrowed it .""",,
27048,7087,"""The family of Greg Baer , Bank of America executive , is located in a jurisdiction protected by the Montgomery County Police Department ( MCPD ) , which responded promptly to a disturbance call from his neighborhood last weekend . According to Corporal Dan Friz , an MCPD spokesperson in Rockville , Maryland , the department received a disturbance call from one of Baer ’ s neighbors at 4:10 pm last Sunday . Four MCPD units arrived at Baer ’ s Greenville Rd . address at 4:15 pm . At least two Metropolitan Police Department units from the nearby District of Columbia were already at the scene when they arrived .""","""So the local police did respond .""",AGREE,"""a jurisdiction protected by the Montgomery County Police Department ( MCPD ) , which responded promptly to a disturbance call""","""So the local police did respond .""",,
27058,7088,"""( Now remember , people actually thought this way in the name of evolution and science ! )""","""And I think that if I fall off a tall cliff , I 'll die . Does that mean that gravity and science are either evil or incorrect ?""",DISAGREE,"""people actually thought this way in the name of evolution and science !""","""I think that if I fall off a tall cliff , I 'll die gravity and science are either evil or incorrect ?""",,
27076,7091,"""For anti-choicers , it 's just about control and power over women . They do n't care about life . ( Except their own . )""","""I 'm not big on the abortion issue , but are you saying that anyone who disagrees with you is sexist and arrogant ? That 's a tactic straight from the leftist playbook . Clearly you 're the one who 's arrogant , if you can make these kinds of baseless generalizations of your opponents . Is n't it you who always accuses conservatives of being intolerant of people who think differently than them ? Now that 's irony !""",DISAGREE,"""For anti-choicers , it 's just about control and power over women . They do n't care about""","""Is n't it you who always accuses conservatives of being intolerant of people who think differently than them ? Now that 's irony !""",,
27091,7101,"""Now I know why there are few Creo 's on this forum .""","""There are few `` Creo 's `` in this forum because it becomes very quickly apparent to them that they ca n't defend their belief in mythology . They find out that they have been misinformed and that they are scientifically illiterate . They realize that they have no evidence or proof , only statements of religious faith . That 's why they leave . They make statements like , `` radiocarbon dating is inaccurate because it is based on assumptions. `` Creationists are unwilling to examine their beliefs with the same skepticism as they direct at science . By the way , when asked for evidence you quite rudely responded that you would furnish it when you were good and ready . If you wished to be treated with respect , then would n't it have been better to explain that your material was n't available but you would find it and post it as soon as it was - say next Tuesday ? Instead you copped an attitude and responded with snide remarks . You invited the disrespect because you gave none . You are rude and verbally abusive and then play the martyr when you are mocked . We 've seen it before . Your behaviour is quite typical of creationists in general , but especially those who ca n't back up their assertions . [ edit to add ] Here 's how science works . A scientist makes an observation of some natural event or the effects of some natural event that he/she does n't understand . Drawing on experience and current theory in that field of science , the scientist formulates a speculative explanation due to natural causes . This is called an hypothesis . If the scientist were to declare , `` It 's a miracle ! `` then that would shut off all inquiry and place the assertion beyond challenge . That would be giving up . It is important that the hypothesis is open to challenge , that is to say , it must be falsifiable . The scientist then makes a prediction of some potential observation that is a logical requirement of the hypothesis . In other words , the predicted observation must be true if the hypothesis is the correct explanation . This is what I meant when I spoke of predictive value above . The scientist then designs and carries out an experiment that tests whether the observation can be made exactly as predicted . If the scientist is correct , then he publishes his hypothesis in an appropriate scientific journal where his work is evaluated and the testing can be repeated . Sometimes further predictions are made and tested . If the experimentation shows that the hypothesis is n't correct , then it is amended to account for the new experimental data and the process is repeated with further predictions and tests . Sometimes the hypothesis is abandoned entirely . I certainly hope that your `` proof `` has been subjected to the kind of challenge that scientific theories undergo . Science advances by being challenged . Religion does n't advance and challenges have resulted in burning at the stake , torture and death .""",DISAGREE,"""Now I know why there are few Creo 's on this forum .""","""find out that they have been misinformed and that they are scientifically illiterate . They realize that they have no evidence or proof , only statements of religious faith .""",,
27093,7101,"""Now I know why there are few Creo 's on this forum .""","""There are few `` Creo 's `` in this forum because it becomes very quickly apparent to them that they ca n't defend their belief in mythology . They find out that they have been misinformed and that they are scientifically illiterate . They realize that they have no evidence or proof , only statements of religious faith . That 's why they leave . They make statements like , `` radiocarbon dating is inaccurate because it is based on assumptions. `` Creationists are unwilling to examine their beliefs with the same skepticism as they direct at science . By the way , when asked for evidence you quite rudely responded that you would furnish it when you were good and ready . If you wished to be treated with respect , then would n't it have been better to explain that your material was n't available but you would find it and post it as soon as it was - say next Tuesday ? Instead you copped an attitude and responded with snide remarks . You invited the disrespect because you gave none . You are rude and verbally abusive and then play the martyr when you are mocked . We 've seen it before . Your behaviour is quite typical of creationists in general , but especially those who ca n't back up their assertions . [ edit to add ] Here 's how science works . A scientist makes an observation of some natural event or the effects of some natural event that he/she does n't understand . Drawing on experience and current theory in that field of science , the scientist formulates a speculative explanation due to natural causes . This is called an hypothesis . If the scientist were to declare , `` It 's a miracle ! `` then that would shut off all inquiry and place the assertion beyond challenge . That would be giving up . It is important that the hypothesis is open to challenge , that is to say , it must be falsifiable . The scientist then makes a prediction of some potential observation that is a logical requirement of the hypothesis . In other words , the predicted observation must be true if the hypothesis is the correct explanation . This is what I meant when I spoke of predictive value above . The scientist then designs and carries out an experiment that tests whether the observation can be made exactly as predicted . If the scientist is correct , then he publishes his hypothesis in an appropriate scientific journal where his work is evaluated and the testing can be repeated . Sometimes further predictions are made and tested . If the experimentation shows that the hypothesis is n't correct , then it is amended to account for the new experimental data and the process is repeated with further predictions and tests . Sometimes the hypothesis is abandoned entirely . I certainly hope that your `` proof `` has been subjected to the kind of challenge that scientific theories undergo . Science advances by being challenged . Religion does n't advance and challenges have resulted in burning at the stake , torture and death .""",DISAGREE,"""know why there are few Creo 's""","""There are few `` Creo 's `` in this forum because it becomes very quickly apparent to them that they ca n't defend their belief in mythology . They find out that they have been misinformed and that they are scientifically illiterate Your is quite typical of creationists in general""",,
27090,7101,"""Now I know why there are few Creo 's on this forum .""","""There are few `` Creo 's `` in this forum because it becomes very quickly apparent to them that they ca n't defend their belief in mythology . They find out that they have been misinformed and that they are scientifically illiterate . They realize that they have no evidence or proof , only statements of religious faith . That 's why they leave . They make statements like , `` radiocarbon dating is inaccurate because it is based on assumptions. `` Creationists are unwilling to examine their beliefs with the same skepticism as they direct at science . By the way , when asked for evidence you quite rudely responded that you would furnish it when you were good and ready . If you wished to be treated with respect , then would n't it have been better to explain that your material was n't available but you would find it and post it as soon as it was - say next Tuesday ? Instead you copped an attitude and responded with snide remarks . You invited the disrespect because you gave none . You are rude and verbally abusive and then play the martyr when you are mocked . We 've seen it before . Your behaviour is quite typical of creationists in general , but especially those who ca n't back up their assertions . [ edit to add ] Here 's how science works . A scientist makes an observation of some natural event or the effects of some natural event that he/she does n't understand . Drawing on experience and current theory in that field of science , the scientist formulates a speculative explanation due to natural causes . This is called an hypothesis . If the scientist were to declare , `` It 's a miracle ! `` then that would shut off all inquiry and place the assertion beyond challenge . That would be giving up . It is important that the hypothesis is open to challenge , that is to say , it must be falsifiable . The scientist then makes a prediction of some potential observation that is a logical requirement of the hypothesis . In other words , the predicted observation must be true if the hypothesis is the correct explanation . This is what I meant when I spoke of predictive value above . The scientist then designs and carries out an experiment that tests whether the observation can be made exactly as predicted . If the scientist is correct , then he publishes his hypothesis in an appropriate scientific journal where his work is evaluated and the testing can be repeated . Sometimes further predictions are made and tested . If the experimentation shows that the hypothesis is n't correct , then it is amended to account for the new experimental data and the process is repeated with further predictions and tests . Sometimes the hypothesis is abandoned entirely . I certainly hope that your `` proof `` has been subjected to the kind of challenge that scientific theories undergo . Science advances by being challenged . Religion does n't advance and challenges have resulted in burning at the stake , torture and death .""",DISAGREE,"""few""","""few because they defend their belief""",,
27107,7104,"""http : //www.catholiceducation.org/art ... on/ab0102.html I actually have n't read all of this article yet , but it looks interesting .""","""I think I posted that awhile ago . Its huge BS . Thats like saying `` Civil rights hurt blacks `` . Even though abortion may have some unwated side affects , its no where near the emotional and physical pain and suffering for the rest of your life than a forced pregnancy . Just goes to show that the pro-life movement is desperate .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.catholiceducation.org/art ... on/ab0102.html I actually have n't read all of this article yet , but it looks interesting .""","""I think I posted that awhile ago . Its huge BS . Thats like saying `` Civil rights hurt blacks `` . Even though abortion may have some unwated side affects , its no where near the emotional and physical pain and suffering for the rest of your life than a forced pregnancy . Just goes to show that the pro-life movement is desperate .""",,
27118,7105,"""First of all , i can turn around right here , because i can see that you already have no idea what you are talking about . Pro-choicers do not advocate the abortion of fetuses . Anti-choice antics are getting pretty dirty these days .""","""but they do support the choice to abort a fetus or embryo . An argument made for slavery was that `` you do n't have to own them but do n't tell us what to do `` .. a fairly similar argument but does n't show whether or not abortion is wrong just that some lines of thinking should be questioned .""",DISAGREE,"""Pro-choicers do not advocate the abortion of fetuses . Anti-choice antics are getting pretty dirty these days .""","""but they do support the choice to abort a fetus or fairly similar argument but does n't show whether or not abortion is wrong just that some lines of thinking should be questioned""",,
27129,7109,"""because the earth is older than 10,000 years as many creationists think and the 7 day creation does n't make sense .""","""But does n't Genesis imply that creation occured in one 7-day period ( though the days could be symbollic ) ?""",DISAGREE,"""because the earth is older than 10,000 years as many creationists""","""But does n't Genesis imply that creation occured in one 7-day period""",,
27149,7114,"""So what developed nations have lower murder rates than the US ?""","""A master baiter like you should present your thesis to be taken seriously , you have n't and you are n't .""",DISAGREE,"""what developed nations have lower murder rates than the US ?""","""you should present your thesis to be taken seriously""",,
27171,7119,"""The founding fathers were afraid to trust the common people with the right to vote . They did n't want mob rule and chaos . '' Most of the Founders believed that property ownership was essential to good citizenship and therefore that only property owners should be able to vote . 'Property ' , in those days , also included slaves , of course , and half of the Founders were slave owners .... The maintenance of power in the hands of the elite was further strengthened by who could vote . In 1787 , there were about four million people living in the 13 original states . But only about four percent of them , it is estimated , could vote . Excluded were the one million slaves , the two million women , anyone under the age of 21 , and all non-property owners. `` http : //www.alternativesmagazine.com/22/lonsdale.html""","""What is your point ?""",DISAGREE,"""The founding fathers were afraid to trust the common people with the right to vote . They did n't want mob rule and chaos . '' Most of the Founders believed that property ownership was essential to good citizenship and therefore that only property owners should be able to vote . 'Property ' , in those days , also included slaves , of course , and half of the Founders were slave owners .... The maintenance of power in the hands of the elite was further strengthened by who could vote . In 1787 , there were about four million people living in the 13 original states . But only about four percent of them , it is estimated , could vote . Excluded were the one million slaves , the two million women , anyone under the age of 21 , and all non-property""","""What is your point ?""",,
27180,7120,"""My cling-on ! Does your mother know you 're out ?""","""I 'm not out Pentroll . Im indoors .""",DISAGREE,"""Does your mother know you 're out ?""","""Im indoors .""",,
27199,7124,"""This is the old viability arguement , but it just does n't hold up . It means that as our medical technology has gotten progressively better , and a premature baby can survive outside the womb at earlier and earlier stages because of this , the point at which it is unethical and/or considered murder has gotten earlier .""","""There is a point , however , that the fetal lung is not mature enough to survive outside the womb even with mechanical assistance . So , unless our technology will be pretty radically different in the future , it is n't about getting it out , it 's about it not surviving when it is out .""",DISAGREE,"""a premature baby can survive outside the womb at earlier and earlier stages""","""it is n't about getting it out , it 's about it not surviving when it is out .""",,
27219,7127,"""That wasnt sarcasm .""","""I believe I would know when my own post is sarcasm or not ...""",DISAGREE,"""That wasnt sarcasm .""","""I believe I would know when my own post is sarcasm or not""",,
27230,7128,"""Firstly : the statement you are trying to support is `` Biologically speaking , a human individual 's life begins at conception `` . However , the word 'life ' - that which you are arguing has a factually determinable beginning , does not have an absolute biological definition . To quote the wikipedia article on it : `` It is still a challenge for scientists and philosophers to define life in unequivocal terms `` . This is doubly the case when considering the 'life ' of an individual , as opposed to the 'life ' of , say , a skin cell . For example , a person with no brain activity can be composed of living cells if they are kept on life support , but legally and medically the individual is considered dead . The argument , then : If 'life ' has no definitive definition , how can you argue that it has a clearly definable start ? Secondly : Consider a zygote . According to you , it is an individual . But a zygote can split into two - to form monozygotic , or 'identical ' , twins . Before splitting , it is one 'individual ' . Afterwards , it is two . Where has the extra individual come from ? Given that the split can happen up to 15 days after fertilisation , when was the start of that individuals life ? Thirdly : In contrast to identical twins , consider a chimera organism . A chimera is made up of cells containing one of two different strands of human DNA - they are formed when two fertilised eggs or early embryos collide and become one embryo , which then goes on to be a single human being . Given that the single individual was created by the merging of two different individuals ( by your definition ) , when was the biological start of their life ?""","""I 'll take these questions ( one at a time ) in the other thread .""",DISAGREE,"""Firstly""","""I 'll take these questions ( one at a time )""",,
27253,7131,"""the fact that you think life can be created out of non-life in 10 years show how little you know about biology""","""You still have n't learned what Google is have you Yankee Fan ? HowStuffWorks `` Artificial Life `` Artificial Life Likely in 3 to 10 Years - Science - redOrbit And relying entirely on insults is not a good way of gaining credibility . It did n't work on Livewire , it wo n't work here .""",DISAGREE,"""fact that you think life can be created non-life in 10 years""","""Science entirely on insults is not a good way of gaining credibility .""",,
27272,7133,"""In fact , as a return question , I 'd like to ask him : does someone rely on the Odyssey to establish the existence of Pallas Athene , Circe or Calypso ?""","""I 've always gone the Scylla and Charybdis route before instead .""",AGREE,"""does someone rely on the Odyssey to establish the existence of Pallas Athene , Circe or Calypso ?""","""I 've always gone the Scylla and Charybdis route before instead .""",,
27275,7133,"""In fact , as a return question , I 'd like to ask him : does someone rely on the Odyssey to establish the existence of Pallas Athene , Circe or Calypso ?""","""I 've always gone the Scylla and Charybdis route before instead .""",AGREE,"""question Pallas Athene Circe or Calypso""","""I 've always gone the Scylla before instead""",,
27289,7136,"""Our resident genius supposes a vagina is an entrance/exit to a child trap ... interesting .""","""As an aside I do admire your way with words , bravo !""",AGREE,"""Our resident genius supposes a vagina is an entrance/exit to a child trap ... interesting .""","""As an aside I do admire your way with words , bravo !""",,
27311,7140,"""Here you reveal exactly what I 've just spoken of -- you assume that science and the scientific method equates to , is synonymous with , materialism/mechanism . It most certainly is not . Nor is the accompanying assumption , i.e. , that any science which does not strictly adhere to materialust/mechanist assumptions , is not , and can not be , real science . Equally untrue .""","""And here you reveal your prediliction for reading what you want to see into the words of others . I described materialism embracing new forces and phenomena which have withstood the rigors of the scientific method . I explicitly described science as a methodology , not a philosophy . You are wrong about me , WW , and the longer you pretend otherwise , the more time you 're going to waste on strawmen and the more chances I 'm going to get to make your arguments look silly . It 's up to you . Argue with me , or argue with the person you want me to be .""",DISAGREE,"""assume that science and the scientific method equates to , is synonymous""","""I explicitly described science as a methodology , not a philosophy .""",,
27346,7146,"""The benefits of heterosexual marriages are important for society .""","""Actually the benefits of stable , safe and loving homes for chilren are important to society . To deny gays and lesbians are indeed able to provide this is a flat out lie . I have directed you to the AAP report on gay parenting . I would suggest you actually read it .""",DISAGREE,"""heterosexual marriages are important for society .""","""safe and loving homes for chilren are important to society .""",,
27368,7158,"""Dear Mr. Criminal , Which house would you like to break into . SIncerely , 1 constitutional rights violator and 1 law abiding citizen .""","""So you think that people that express a different point of view than you are doing something illegal ? You must disagree with freedom of speech . You 're a scary guy .""",DISAGREE,"""Which house would you like to break into""","""are doing something illegal ? disagree with freedom of speech scary guy""",,
27386,7169,"""I do n't think DOMA is an abhorrent law . It 's real intent is to preserve the sovereignty of the individual states over an issue ...""","""No , not in the least . It 's real intent was to throw a bone to the people pretending to have `` family values `` . The religious right , the conservatives , that lot .""",DISAGREE,"""do n't . the""","""No , not in the least . It 's real intent was to throw a bone to the people pretending to have `` family values `` .""",,
27395,7170,"""I 've heard pro-gunners accuse Bellesiles of being a fraud over and over again . I went searching on the web for a more objective source of information about Bellesiles . And pro-gunners seem to be inconsistent because they still praise John Lott . Michael Bellesiles has posted his raw data online for those who claim he has fabricated data . http : //www.bellesiles.com/""","""I do n't see why it is so hard to accept he lied . He lost is award and lost his job over his data .""",DISAGREE,"""I 've heard pro-gunners accuse Bellesiles of being a fraud over and over again""","""I do n't see why it is so hard to accept he lied""",,
27401,7171,"""Like it or not Fetus is the latin word for Baby . If we can prove a person was at a crime scene through DNA evidence . Then we can prove a person is in his or her Mother 's womb at the time of conception . That statement is pure scientific fact .""","""Really ? A human can be determined scientifically . Personhood is a human legal construct . You can not prove scientifically what a `` person `` is .""",DISAGREE,"""Like it or not Fetus is the latin word for Baby""","""You can not prove scientifically what a `` person `` is""",,
27423,7175,"""Oh really ? Where ?""","""FindLaw | Cases and Codes""",DISAGREE,"""Oh really ? Where ?""","""FindLaw | Cases and Codes""",,
27439,7178,"""electrolyte has a point . If the butterfly had changed into another creature then it would have been somethin worth noting . The butterfly stayed as a butterfly . It 's just like a Mexican and an American Indian having a child . It would have a different skin color and facial features and stuff like that , but it would still be a human .""","""But Mexicans and Native Americans are the same species , so it 's not just like that . This butterfly is a species different than either parent . One reason that that particular creationist objection has no merit is because the butterflies are significantly biologically different ( i.e . different species ) . The fact that we call each species a type of butterfly has only to do with our taxonomic system . If we were to somehow have fossils representing the complete record of the water-to-land transition , one would be forced to pick a point at which a fish became a land animal . Just because one finds this a difficult task to accomplish does n't mean that there was no transition . Likewise , this applies to any line of ancestry . As an example , look at creationists ' response to Archaeopteryx . Many insisted that it is a bird . Others insisted that it is a reptile . A few have originally called it a bird , then decided that it must be a reptile . The fact that people have trouble fitting an organism into our previously-learned concepts of classifications is a sign that species have changed significantly .""",DISAGREE,"""If the butterfly had changed into another creature then it would have been somethin worth noting""","""This butterfly is a species different than either parent""",,
27445,7179,"""the news sources we contacted today who told us to be very wary of you because you have yet to produce any evidence of this""","""All of the points above should be considered if you want to produce a solid argument that a series of events actually occured in the past . If you wish others to take this seriously please produce some relevant evidence from a source that held to a higher level of credibility . By your standards I should make a thread based on the National Enquirer or Star about Kerry 's life as a male gigolo or golddigger .""",DISAGREE,"""news sources we contacted yet to produce any evidence""","""produce a solid argument series of events By your standards I should make a thread""",,
27457,7182,"""I see you Americans deal as loosely with the French and Spanish languages , as you do with English ! Surely it is something like Viva Libertad , or Vive la Liberte , but Viva La Liberty ? ? ? ? ? Leo""","""Actually I do n't deal with spanish or french because I do n't have to . I speak english .""",DISAGREE,"""I see you Americans deal as loosely with the French and Spanish languages , you do with English ! Surely it is something like Viva Libertad""","""I do n't deal with spanish or french because I do n't have to . I speak english .""",,
27467,7184,"""We had light and dark moths before the industrial revolution ,""","""Actually , we did n't . The first record of a melanic form was in 1848 . Presumably other melanic individuals had appeared before this , both in Biston bebularia as well as other moths . We know that a similar mutation occucrred in other moths North America some years after the 1848 record of the B. betualria . There are actually several alleles of the gene responsible for color that form a dominence hierarchy with the fully black morph ( called carbonaria ) as the top dominant and the typical as recessive . The intermediate forms are referred to as insularia . They are uncommon . At any rate , by 1895 , 98 % of observed B. betularia in industrialized areas were carbonaria .""",DISAGREE,"""light and dark moths before the industrial revolution""","""the top dominant and the typical as recessive""",,
27490,7190,"""And we know this how ? You complain about the 90 % figure being erroneous and then make an unsupported statement like this ? Furthermore , if Mexico is making an earnest attempt to smash the cartels and we 're financing it in part , would n't we want to help reduce the weapons traffic flowing south into the cartel 's arsenals ?""","""If you paid attention the BATFE said so . Yes but some people do n't want to close the borders . They prefer no border controls .""",DISAGREE,"""Furthermore , if Mexico is making an earnest attempt to smash the cartels and we 're financing it in part ,""","""If you paid attention the BATFE said so . Yes but some people do n't want to close the borders .""",,
27517,7195,"""What Would Jesus Carry ?""","""A two edged sword ! Revelations !""",DISAGREE,"""What Would Jesus Carry ?""","""A two edged sword !""",,
27527,7197,"""Fully knowing that chance in itself is not agency - there is no causality in chance , chance is a byproduct of an event therefore can not effect anything , so the equation would look something like : chance + any amount of time = nothing , therefore evolution or any of its pseudo-intellectual ilk are simply impossible .""","""... and I was n't disappointed I do n't know what 'chance as causality ' is supposed to mean , but to speak of evolution being 'based on chance ' is highly misleading . If I have an accident on the way to work tomorrow morning , there will be a definite cause ; a specific series of events leading up to it . We can not guess what they might be . Nevertheless , we can still makes statements about the statistical likelihood of such an accident occurring , yes ? Does that accurate statement of probability mean that my fate on the road is literally determined by a dice roll , that if my number comes up , I crash , with 'chance as causality ' ? Of course not . We are merely describing the likelihood of an event in a system of which we have imperfect knowledge . As our knowledge of the system increases , our assessment of that likelihood changes : if you know my age and gender , my driving habits , my route and how busy or quiet it is - all these things permit a more accurate assessment of the odds . If we had perfect knowledge of a deterministic system , the odds would be 1 or 0 . Similarly , every mutation that has ever occurred has had a definite proximate cause , and if we knew what they all were and what they would all be in the future , evolution would lie mapped out before us in all its detail . Nevertheless , in the absence of perfect knowledge of these individual causes we can still describe the occurrence of such events statistically , saying how long we might have to wait , or how many trials we might conduct in order to expect a given outcome . So to say that the evolution of the nylon bug , for instance , was based on chance is misleading : the evolution of the nylon bug was based on whatever proximate cause shuffled its DNA . Correctly viewed , evolution is not a series of unlikely events , but a series of highly likely ones . It is highly likely , for instance , that some bacteria in a large colony would experience a mutation enabling the digestion of nylon . Sure - breaking that event down on a per-bacterium basis yields tiny probabilities , but why stop there ? Why not break it down on a per-bacterium , per-microsecond basis ? The chances just got even smaller ! See ? It 's a silly way to think about it , because in the end it 's the chance of the event occurring that matters , not some arbitrary deadline by which it must occur or cell to which it must occur .""",DISAGREE,"""chance in itself is not agency byproduct of an event""","""speak of evolution highly likely ones way to think about it""",,
27538,7199,"""In June 2007 , Nature magazine openly denied ( specifically in the name of evolution ) that humans are created in the image of God , which simply points to what evolutionist James Rachels told everybody 17 years earlier , that Darwinian evolution makes the image-of-God claim AND its derivative claim of inherent human dignity , unsustainable and therefore Out-The-Window .""","""Do you have a quote ? a link ? anything to make us think that you 're not spinning this like you tend to spin everything else ? Here 's something you did n't think through : you say that `` inherent `` human dignity is a derivative of the image-of-God claim . First , that makes it most certainly not inherent but derived . Second , you insult the entire human race when you claim that human dignity is dependent upon anything else . I 'm sorry that you think so little of humans .""",DISAGREE,"""derivative claim of inherent human dignity ,""","""Second , you insult the entire human race when you claim that human dignity""",,
27540,7200,"""If you consider that a good area to compare American gun crime to , it does n't say much about the safety of America .""","""Just this morning there was an article in the paper about a woman in the Extreme Southern part of Texas in Brownsville being shot `` with a stray bullet from Mexican soldiers `` on our side of the river . Over 80 % of the crimes are committed by Mexican gang members , many of which are ex-soldiers and drug enforcement for the mafias . Nope , not safe at all when foreign invaders attack Texans on our side of the river and do pseudo cop break and enters of homes or robbery of businesses . That is a good example of the importance of being armed . One county sheriff along the river encouraged citizens to get armed just for that purpose , freely admitting that his officers will not be there when they are needed the most . We Texans have kidnapping and ransome too but reserve our right to protect ourselves unlike EuroAsia who has copitulated entirely . You were saying ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you consider that a good area to compare American gun crime to , it does n't say much about the safety of America""","""Just this morning there was an article in the paper about a woman in the Extreme Southern part of Texas in Brownsville being shot `` with a stray bullet from Mexican soldiers ``""",,
27575,7207,"""we waste paper , which is causing people to deplete the world 's forests .""","""Not really . World forests are at risk for farm land and non-paper logging , not for paper which is being replaced by post consumer waste at increasing rates . Most paper people use today contains at least some recycled paper .""",DISAGREE,"""we waste paper which is causing people to deplete the world 's forests .""","""Not really . World forests are at risk for farm land and non-paper logging Most paper people use today contains at least some recycled paper""",,
27579,7208,"""You prove my point exactly . Just because 99 % of scientists believe in evolution , why should I ?""","""Because it 's a blatantly obvious fact of nature and intellectually honest experts in the field accept it .""",DISAGREE,"""You prove my point exactly . Just because 99 % of scientists believe in evolution , why should I ?""","""Because it 's a blatantly obvious fact of nature and intellectually honest experts in the field accept it .""",,
27605,7213,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Karl , How can you say such things ? The Bible says that God CREATED over and OVER and OVER again !""","""And the wonders all around us show us how. . .""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Karl , How can you say such things""","""And the wonders all around us show us how. . .""",,
27610,7214,"""Yet , tehre seem to be people who remember taking the poll . Regardless , in his report it was a minor point . From a realistic standpoint , it took nothing away from the report when he removed it . Lott was investigated for this , just like Bellisiles . He was not found guilty of any academic misconduct ( unlike Bellesiles ) . When you consider the thousands fo data sets that he compiled to put that report together , the folks investigating him did n't think it was at all unbelieveable that he scoudn ; t remeber the details of where that number came from . Again , though , he ended up removing that number from his report ( the single place that it appeared ) and apologised for using it since he could not provide the raw data or a good cite for it . Here is how he responded to the article you link to : http : //johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html It is rather interesting , and well documented . It addresses a couple of inacuracies in the article , such as the misconseption that he had attributed the disputed numner to Kleck . This is not nearly as uncommon as people seem to think . i am guilty of it myself . My company offers a high end software product and we provide a support forum for users to discuss problems , techniques , etc ... I often log on under a false persona in order to interact with customers without getting swamped . It is no big deal . If anybody asked if our software is good or sucks , I always say it is excellent and easy to use . If they ask about our support , i always tell them `` top notch `` . I have spoken with a couple of college professors I know about this very topic ( I live in a college town ) and they have both said this is far from unusual in the academic community , especially when publishing controversial work .""","""Ok . So Lott is flakey . Then Bellesiles is OK ? Riiiiight . I though a person 's reputation stood on thier own behavior and achivements , not based on someone else . Besides the debate weather Lott is dishonest or not is debatable and still going on . The debate weather Bellesiles is dishonest is over , he is most definately a liar , and this was decided by his boss and the Banqcroft prize commitee .""",DISAGREE,"""Lott was investigated for this , just like Bellisiles . He was not found guilty of any academic misconduct ( unlike Bellesiles ) ``""","""So Lott is flakey . Then Bellesiles is OK ? Riiiiight . The debate weather Bellesiles is dishonest is over , he is most definately a liar""",,
27637,7220,"""lethal weapon which is used solely to kill or maim .""","""But , now simone is in a pickle . Is there an explanation as to why police officers carry these things ? ( OH ! Now we switch to the purpose of the USER ! How convenient ! I wish I could determine that an item is bad using one train of logic , and then SWITCH LINES OF LOGIC to suit my argument ! I will bet that simone will choose to COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POST because I am removing all lines of dishonest `` logic switching `` . ( or , at least attempting to ) Rather than admit wrongness , ( very hard to do once a person has so vehemently commited themselves to an agenda ) there is no other choice than to follow the trail of that path to the end . Even if the path leads to a land of complete logical make believe and you are thereby forced to defend your chosen agenda even if it means temporarily making logical `` detours `` . After all , if objects have no inherent evil or goodness , it must be the character of the USER and the chosen purpose of the USER that determines the ethical value of how an item is used . If this is so , you ca n't call guns bad . This determination can not be admitted on the path simone has chosen . Therefore , since simone 's agenda insists on the inherent evilness of an object ( a gun ) there MUST be some logical deviation to explain why these `` evil `` items are not `` evil `` when used by police . If there is no logical deviation on a path that is in error , you will have no choice but to arrive in error 's destination : make believe land ! Where matches burn down houses ! And knives cause slashings ! And candle holders cause bashed in skulls ! .... AND ...... AND ..... GUNS CAUSE SHOOTINGS ! Well , simone . We 're down to brass tacks . Is a gun bad , or is it the determination of the person who uses it ? Because if a gun is bad , then we live in la-la land . And if a gun is an inanimate object who 's user is responsible for how it is used , you have no argument for why law abiding people ca n't posess them and be capable of the determination ( As police do ) for using them in a responsible manner . Just like matches , or cars , or candle holders . So , simone ............""",DISAGREE,"""lethal weapon which is used solely to kill or maim""","""SWITCH LINES OF LOGIC to suit my argument ! I will bet that simone will choose to COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POST because I am removing all lines of dishonest `` logic switching ``""",,
27647,7224,"""Careful there Sarge . Recently liberals in Switzerland were successful in passing a mandate that militia members are no longer allowed to keep their service weapons and ammunition at home . They 're no longer safe because of these pansies having their way .""","""Tell me it ai n't so ! ! ! Unfrickin believable !""",AGREE,"""Recently liberals in Switzerland were successful in passing a mandate that militia members are no longer allowed to keep their service""","""Tell me it ai n't so ! ! ! Unfrickin believable !""",,
27651,7225,"""It is so easy , so simple , so evident is not it ?""","""Actually , it is n't . It is complex and complicated . It requires diligent study of difficult concepts . But when you grasp the basics , it does become evident . But most creationists are n't willing to put in the effort .""",DISAGREE,"""It is so easy , so simple , so evident is not it ?""","""Actually , it is n't . It is complex and complicated .""",,
27667,7227,"""Pro-choice . I think abortion is awful and I would like to see it reduced to the bare minimum .""","""Hi jitobear . I am also pro-choice . This comment jumped out at me , though . Do you think it 's seen as awful do to cultural conditioning ? Could this have it wrong ? There is no scientific basis that it 's a human person , at the stage of development when the vast majority of abortions occur . I worry that by suggesting it 's so negative , it ca n't help but be a stigma on the woman who chooses to abort her pregnancy . No woman should feel the need to apologize in relation to abortion , which is just about control over one 's own body .""",DISAGREE,"""I think abortion is awful and I would like to see it reduced""","""There is no scientific basis that it 's a human person , at the stage of development""",,
27676,7229,"""And i dont really believe in god because he has shown us NO compelling evidence of his existance .""","""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""",DISAGREE,"""i dont really believe in god because he has shown us""","""The meticulously preserved , unchanging 66 Books of the Bible are n't compelling ?""",,
27691,7231,"""The prohibition of illegal guns is about as effective as the prohibition of dealing in pot ... And Guns are a drug dealers best friend""","""and both can and are inported illegaly .""",AGREE,"""The prohibition of illegal guns is about as effective as the prohibition of dealing in pot""","""both can and are inported illegaly""",,
27700,7234,"""`` I think one of the greatest mysteries in biology at the moment is whether natural selection is the only process capable of generating organismal complexity , `` said Massimo Pigliucci of the Department of Ecology and Evolution at Stony Brook University in New York , `` or whether there are other properties of matter that also come into play . I suspect the latter will turn out to be true. ``""","""Bertvan : I suspect that once those  “ other processes “ are acknowledged , most people will realize it is unlikely that  “ natural selection “ ever actually created anything .""",AGREE,"""I think one of the greatest mysteries in biology at the moment is whether natural selection is the only process capable of generating organismal complexity ,""","""most people will realize it is unlikely that  natural selection ever actually created anything""",,
27698,7234,"""`` I think one of the greatest mysteries in biology at the moment is whether natural selection is the only process capable of generating organismal complexity , `` said Massimo Pigliucci of the Department of Ecology and Evolution at Stony Brook University in New York , `` or whether there are other properties of matter that also come into play . I suspect the latter will turn out to be true. ``""","""Bertvan : I suspect that once those  “ other processes “ are acknowledged , most people will realize it is unlikely that  “ natural selection “ ever actually created anything .""",AGREE,"""I think one of the greatest mysteries in biology at the moment is whether natural selection is the only process capable of generating organismal complexity , ``""","""I suspect that once those  other processes are acknowledged , most people will realize it is unlikely that  natural selection ever actually created""",,
27706,7236,"""Well , I guess you can refuse to see something that 's pretty obvious . It 's up to you .""",""".... i can make up one just as prophetic . '' The sky is black , the shadows powerful , God 's domain judged by the unseen `` Obviously this a prophetic for 26th dimensional superstring theory and how it governors the universe 's physical properties in unforseen ways . Do n't you see it ? It 's quite obvious ! To the RATIONAL world , that is completely absurd , just like your analysis of how the scriptures work in your opninion .""",DISAGREE,"""Well , I guess you can refuse to see something that 's pretty obvious""","""To the RATIONAL world , that is completely absurd , just like your analysis of how the scriptures work in your opninion .""",,
27707,7237,"""Of course , no one expects that you would have made any effort to actually educate yourself before you accepted creationist dogma from someone else who is as ignorant as you . There have been several continuing experiments with anole lizards in the Caribbean . I 'll leave it to you to search the peer reviewed literature for the several papers on the topic . I 'm sure that it wo n't be a problem for you , given your constant quest for knowledge .""","""It 's worse than that , Pandion . For example , here 's what I told him over at ARN on the same subject back on April 5th . http : //www.arn.org/ubbthreads/showfl ... e # Post30331420""",AGREE,"""I 'll leave it to you to search the peer reviewed literature for the several papers on the topic . I 'm sure that it wo n't be a problem for you , given your constant quest for knowledge""","""It 's worse than that , Pandion . For example , here 's what I told him over at ARN on the same subject back on April 5th""",,
27723,7241,"""I suppose the correct terminology would be that G. fortis evolved a smaller beak due to competition from a larger billed recent imigrant . I suppose that we just are n't subjected to the same word selection pressures this side of the Atlantic .""","""Well , I did say I was being nit-picky : all I was objecting to was the way the original wording suggested that the change was occurring in order to avoid competition . Assuming it was due to selection , the competition from the larger birds was the putative agent of that selection . ( Incidentally , I suspect we live on the same side of the Atlantic . )""",DISAGREE,"""competition from a larger billed recent imigrant . I suppose that we just are n't subjected""","""Assuming it was due to selection , the competition from the larger birds""",,
27727,7241,"""I suppose the correct terminology would be that G. fortis evolved a smaller beak due to competition from a larger billed recent imigrant . I suppose that we just are n't subjected to the same word selection pressures this side of the Atlantic .""","""Well , I did say I was being nit-picky : all I was objecting to was the way the original wording suggested that the change was occurring in order to avoid competition . Assuming it was due to selection , the competition from the larger birds was the putative agent of that selection . ( Incidentally , I suspect we live on the same side of the Atlantic . )""",DISAGREE,"""I suppose that we just are n't subjected to the same word selection pressures this side of the Atlantic .""","""Well , I did say I was being nit-picky""",,
27754,7247,"""This post definately is n't up to your typical standards Greg . That 's some pretty poor logic . Waxy""","""Well your right , Waxy There is no real `` logic `` to my post , because if one thinks about the art of debating religion , the concept of logic goes out the window . A true believer has only the bible to support their beliefs , they can not go to a lab or science room and prove their beliefs on a table , or use cobalt to date religous belief , so their belief is all based on unseen faith . I have only a high school education , therefore I do not have the vocabulary the master debators use on here , nor the artistic way of putting together sentences . So bear with me please , while I try to explain my post a little better .... Since you put me in the spotlight here , I will use you , with great respect to you of course , as my point of debate . You have went on record here stating many times , that you do not believe in a `` god `` the way we believers do . Now with that notion in mind , why do you and others hang out debating on a religous forum ? ? In case you havent noticed , the posts against the notion of God and Christianity , greatly outnumber the posts of the believers . Is that not a interesting fact when you think about it ? I dont believe in a lot of things that I am exposed to in my walk though life here on earth , so I have NO interest in trying to prove those things wrong , THAT I feel have no validity . Clear as mud now , ? ?""",AGREE,"""This post definately is n't up to your typical standards Greg . That 's some pretty poor logic . Waxy""","""because if one thinks about the art of debating religion , the concept of logic goes out the window .""",,
27760,7249,"""I will not put up with people that scroll down to the end read the closing comments by the author and then proceed to argue .""","""( I 'm just curious what you mean by you 'will not put up with [ it ] ' ? You may have to put up with it , as there may be some people who choose to do that , and you have no control to stop them . Just as a suggestion , you may get further by asking respectfully that people not comment unless they have read the entire article . My two cents . ) In this particular article , Mr. Alcorn does not back up any of his assertions with evidence . Some of what he states in this article is common knowledge that needs no documentation ( i.e . a human fetus is human and it is alive ) . But in this article , he states many generalities , he states many opinions ( to which there are alternate views ) , and he backs nothing up . I 'm not saying that the facts he presents can not be backed up , but until they are backed up with solid documentation , there are a lot of holes in what he is saying . For example : `` 2f . There is substantial scientific reason to believe frozen embryos are persons , and should be granted the same rights as older , larger and less vulnerable persons. `` Substantial scientific reason ? ? ? Like what ? A 'person ' is not a scientific concept . Science does not identify the definitions of what can or can not be labeled a 'person . ' That is a legal and/or philisophical topic . '' 3g . Even before the unborn is obviously human in appearance , she is what she is-a human being. `` Here again , a human being is not a scientific term . '' 3e . Every abortion stops a beating heart and terminates measurable brain waves. `` This is not necessarily true . Mr. Alcorn also asserts that the birth control pill causes abortions prior to implantation of the blastocyst in the uterine lining . There is no beating heart or measurable brain activity at this stage of biological development . Both of his assertions , as stated , can not be correct . If one statement is true , then the other must logically be false . '' 5d . It is a scientific fact that there are thought processes at work in unborn babies. `` Where 's the evidence ? Define 'thought processes . ' It may be a fact ... that leaves open the possibility that it may not be true . '' 5h . Arguments against the personhood of the unborn are shrouded in rationalization and denial. `` This is his opinion ... to which he is entitled . '' 9a . Once we grant that the unborn are human beings , it should settle the question of their right to live. `` True . But we have not yet granted that unborn are 'human beings . ' '' 13b . The poor choice of premarital sex is never compensated for by the far worse choice of killing an innocent human being. `` Again . This is merely Mr. Alcorn 's opinion -- both that premarital sex is a 'poor choice ' and the remainder of the statement . '' 14a . Early feminists were prolife , not prochoice. `` Define 'early . ' Are we talking back to the days of Eve ? I do n't believe Margaret Sanger was prolife . '' 14d . The basic premises of the abortion-rights movement are demeaning to women. `` Unsupported opinion . '' 17a . Every child is wanted by someone-there is no such thing as an unwanted child. `` How many children are on the street in this great country ? How many children are waiting to be adopted ? It may be true that all children are wanted by someone , but it is also true that there are many , many children without a home and without a family ... who are being bounced around from foster home to foster home , not finding anyone who 'wants ' them . This is fact . A dear friend of mine is a child protection social worker in a metropolitan area . She deals with this every day . '' 18c . If children are viewed as expendable before birth , they will be viewed as expendable after birth. `` Not sure if I follow this one ... if someone wants a child in the womb , they are not viewed as expendable before birth ... if someone does n't want a child in the womb and it is aborted , there wo n't be anything to be expendable after birth . '' 20b . The dramatic decline in our birth rate will have a disturbing economic effect on America. `` Ummm ... this may be true . It may not be true . Fact is ... we do n't know . We can only make educated guesses . I could go on ... but I think my point has been made . One final one , though ... I had to giggle when I read this one : `` Abortion has made us a nation of schizophrenics about our children. `` It seems that you are fervent in your beliefs that abortion is 'wrong . ' I respect you for knowing what you believe and for standing up for it . Understand , though , that there are individuals who may disagree with you . To imply that they are 'wrong ' and you are 'right ' or they are ignorant or stupid or anything of the sort is a rather self-centered view of the world . In this mindset , it is possible that you are looking at everything from the 'wrong ' perspective . Maybe the other person is actually 'right ' and you are the ignorant one . ( Note : I 'm not suggesting that you are calling anyone stupid or ignorant ... nor am I suggesting you are stupid or ignorant . I 'm just making a point . ) I challenge you to develop a logical argument -- based on facts with supporting evidence , and not based on opinions or 'moral ideals ' -- that is so convincing that even the most 'pro-choice ' person in the world could see ( if they are being honest with themselves and the world ) that abortion is 'wrong . '""",DISAGREE,"""I will not put up with people that scroll down to the end read the closing comments""","""children Abortion has made us a nation of schizophrenics about our""",,
27786,7255,"""Oh ? Do tell , what awful things have happened to Baghdad by the Bay ?""","""I think a better comparison is Sodom ..........""",DISAGREE,"""what awful things have happened to Baghdad by the Bay ?""","""a better comparison is Sodom""",,
27804,7258,"""All things are subject to the Will of God the Creator . Nothing exists or can exist that is not subject to God 's Will .""","""What about this hypothetical rock ? Can it exist ? Or , does this mean that God himself requires God 's Will to exist ? Cyclical !""",DISAGREE,"""Nothing exists or can exist that is not subject to God 's Will .""","""What about this hypothetical rock ? Can it exist ? Or , does this mean that God himself requires God 's Will to exist ?""",,
27817,7268,"""If a naturalistic interpretation of natural events and processes is ever to be replaced , it is more likely that it will be by a newer , better evolution of the naturalistic concept than by goddidit .""","""This is true from the atheistic and secular humanist perspective since they will grasp at any natural explanation , no matter how flimsy and shallow rather than the spiritual explanation . But it does n't answer the specific question I asked at all .""",DISAGREE,"""If a naturalistic interpretation of natural events and processes is ever to be replaced , it is more likely that it will be by a newer , better evolution of the naturalistic concept""","""This is true from the atheistic and secular humanist perspective since they will grasp at any natural explanation""",,
27819,7269,"""Hey , I wonder what they would need to see in order to be convinced of design . I think most scientists would admit the universe looks designed , so what would convince them that it actually is ?""","""You are making up your own strawman arguments as you go along . Asking `` what they would need `` is a poor mask to avoid the fact that YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE in the first place . A lot of `` does n't this look like ... `` , but that 's akin to interpreting Rorschach tests . You see what you want to .""",DISAGREE,"""Hey , I wonder what they would need to see in order to be convinced of design .""","""Asking `` what they would need `` is a poor mask to avoid the fact that YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE in the first place .""",,
27847,7296,"""After something happens , it 's easy to go back and take a look and analyze what could have been done in order to prevent it beforehand . That does n't do much good after the crime has already been committed . Most people do n't purchase guns and sit up late at night hoping a prowler comes along so they can blow them away . The gun is there so , if your other measures fail for any reason , you are not defenseless in a face to face confrontation . Heck , there are plenty of cases where criminals are scared off once they realize somebody is home and armed .""","""And there are plenty of cases where criminals are scared off by much less than a gun .""",DISAGREE,"""take a look and analyze order to prevent it beforehand""","""plenty of cases where criminals are scared off""",,
27849,7296,"""After something happens , it 's easy to go back and take a look and analyze what could have been done in order to prevent it beforehand . That does n't do much good after the crime has already been committed . Most people do n't purchase guns and sit up late at night hoping a prowler comes along so they can blow them away . The gun is there so , if your other measures fail for any reason , you are not defenseless in a face to face confrontation . Heck , there are plenty of cases where criminals are scared off once they realize somebody is home and armed .""","""And there are plenty of cases where criminals are scared off by much less than a gun .""",DISAGREE,"""That does n't do much good after the crime has already been committed""","""there are plenty of cases where criminals are scared off by much less than a gun""",,
27868,7300,"""* There is abundant evidence that many of the rock strata were laid down quickly , one after the other , without significant time breaks between them . For example , preservation of ripple marks requires rapid burial , as in the Flood ( e.g . lower Triassic rock , England ) . Folding of sedimentary rock without cracking or heating , such as at Eastern Beach , Auckland , New Zealand , suggests the folding occurred before the sand and mud had time to turn into stone , consistent with rapid deposition during the Flood .""","""This is simply false . Rock can be folded under pressure . This has been proven by lab experiment . However there are many features in sedimentary rocks that can not be formed quickly , for example , fossil trackways .""",DISAGREE,"""abundant evidence laid down quickly without significant time breaks between""","""Rock can be folded under pressure However there are many features""",,
27882,7302,"""Whatever . As far as I am aware , ( generally ) the only proposed mechanism for any of the alternatives to Darwin is natural selection , which is a gradual , slow process which I have demonstrated to be unable to produce the 40 interacting , well matched protein parts necessary to the flagellum . Now , if you have some kind of other mechanism besides luck , enlighten me instead of alluding to it .""","""And there you go totally misunderstanding evolution . The mechaism is NOT luck . It is natural selection . You claim you do n't like rhetoric , but you just put a nice piece of rhetoric above . Here is a response to the bacteria flagellum arguement . http : //www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB200_1.html""",DISAGREE,"""only proposed mechanism for any of the alternatives to Darwin is natural selection""","""The mechaism is NOT luck . It is natural selection .""",,
27902,7307,"""... I can get wood in seconds !""","""But is it petrified ?""",DISAGREE,"""I can get wood in seconds""","""But is it petrified""",,
27901,7307,"""... I can get wood in seconds !""","""But is it petrified ?""",DISAGREE,"""I can get wood in seconds !""","""But is it petrified ?""",,
27907,7308,"""City Hall & # 8211 ; Speaker Christine C Quinn , together with Council Member Al Vann , today announced legislation that would increase penalties for selling a toy gun by 500 percent . The legislation would also enhance the Department of Consumer Affairs & # 8217 ; enforcement ability and allow the agency to shut stores that are repeat offenders of the law . Department of Consumer Affairs ( DCA ) Commissioner Jonathan Mintz and Criminal Justice Coordinator John Feinblatt joined the Speaker and Council Members at the announcement . The officials also announced a new citywide public awareness campaign about the dangers of toy guns that look real and real guns that look like toys . & # 8220 ; Despite the fact that New York City & # 8217 ; s toy and imitation gun law has been in existence for several years many merchants continue to sell items that resemble real guns , & # 8221 ; said Council Speaker Quinn . & # 8220 ; Our communities are at risk when they can not tell a fake toy gun from a real one and the dangers these items present are all too real . Children have been hurt and even killed as a result of these guns being out in our communities. & # 8221 ; The City Council & # 8217 ; s Consumer Affairs Committee will hold a hearing on the legislation this afternoon . The proposed bill would increase the fine for a first violation from $ 1,000 to up to $ 5,000 . It would also increase the fines for subsequent violations within a two year period from $ 3,000 to up to $ 8,000 . Finally , it would also permit DCA to seal , for up to five days , the premises of a store found guilty of three or more violations within a two year period . Current law imposes a fine of up to $ 1,000 but does not increase that amount for subsequent violations . Since 2002 , DCA has removed more than 7,200 imitation guns from the shelves of nearly 240 stores throughout the city and levied $ 2.4 million in fines . Today , the City also announced a new subway advertising campaign , to be displayed in 2,100 subway cars , all 468 subway stations and more than 5,400 buses . The campaign warns New Yorkers of the dangers of realistic-looking toy guns and the dangers of real guns that are painted to look like toys . The campaign & # 8217 ; s advertisements demonstrate potential confusion about gun coloration and warn people that it is illegal either to make a fake gun look real or make a real gun look like a toy . New Yorkers are encouraged to call 311 about either problem . Calls to 311 that concern real guns that look fake will be forwarded to the Police Department & # 8217 ; s Gun Stop hotline . Callers can receive a $ 1,000 reward for information that leads to a conviction and can remain anonymous . The City has received a grant from the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services to support the ad campaign . & # 8220 ; Gun violence is plaguing the Bedford-Stuyvesant and Crown Heights neighborhoods that I represent , as well as communities across the city and country , & # 8221 ; said Council Member Al Vann , prime sponsor of the bill . & # 8220 ; When I introduced this legislation , my intentions were also to stem the glorification of guns within our communities , and push the businesses that we patronize to be responsible members of our neighborhoods . I will continue working to address gun violence and its underlying issues . In light of the senseless shooting that occurred in my district Sunday night , it is apparent that we must work more diligently to stem the violence that is afflicting our neighborhoods. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; There is little debate that realistic-looking toy guns pose a serious threat to the safety and welfare of police officers and New Yorkers as a whole , & # 8221 ; stated Deputy Majority Leader Leroy Comrie . & # 8220 ; Sadly , violence resulting from toy guns has happened too many times in this city . This bill is a common sense solution to a very serious threat to our safety. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; Toy guns that look real and real guns that look like toys threaten the safety of our dedicated police officers and our children , especially during this holiday season , & # 8221 ; said Criminal Justice Coordinator John Feinblatt . & # 8220 ; This public awareness campaign will help to educate the public about the dangers posed by these guns. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; Imitation firearms that look real are not party items to be wrapped up and given as gifts during the holiday season , and they & # 8217 ; re certainly not toys , & # 8221 ; said Consumer Affairs Commissioner Jonathan Mintz . & # 8220 ; DCA appreciates the Council & # 8217 ; s strong and unequivocal message to the City & # 8217 ; s retailers who must do right by their customers and their communities by keeping these dangerous items off their shelves forever. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; With the holiday season in full swing , it is particularly important to bring attention to the fact that toy guns can cause accidents resulting in serious injury or death , & # 8221 ; said Council Member Maria del Carmen Arroyo , Co-Chair of the Black , Latino and Asian Caucus . & # 8220 ; Time and time again our communities are at risk and at serious danger when someone carries what is perceived to be a fake gun . I want to thank the Speaker and the Administration for strengthening the penalties in hopes that repeat offenders cease to sell improper toy guns. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; Last month an there was an unfortunate incident in my district where a young teen was shot by police because they mistook his toy gun for a fake one , & # 8221 ; said Council Member Larry Seabrook . & # 8220 ; We need to hold these toy gun sellers accountable for selling such a heinous product . Our children & # 8217 ; s lives are at stake . It is my hope that these penalties will finally deter stores from selling these toys . Our communities need to work together . I ask when they see someone selling bad toy guns or when they see someone concealing a real gun for a fake one to call 311. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; This legislation will help prevent further violence by deterring businesses from selling toy guns that look real , & # 8221 ; said Council Member Melissa Mark-Viverito . & # 8220 ; The increased regulations created by this bill will not only prevent toy guns from being used to commit crimes , but also will avert children from being wounded or killed by confused police officers who mistake their toy for a real gun. & # 8221 ; & # 8220 ; Harlem Mothers S.A.V.E . fully supports the action to increase penalties for store owners who are repeat offenders of the law and we agree that the city should have the authority to shut down such establishments and prevent their further endangering lives of our children and safety of community , said Jackie Rowe Adams , Co-founder . Under New York City & # 8217 ; s Public Safety Law , it is against the law to sell or offer to sell any toy or imitation firearm that can reasonably be perceived to be an actual firearm unless the exterior surface of the toy or imitation firearm is predominantly brightly colored . The range of acceptable colors includes white , bright red , bright orange , bright yellow , bright green , bright blue , bright pink or bright purple .""","""The desperate flailings of a city with absolutely no common sense . They 're so impotent in their abilities to get tough on criminals , they feel it necessary to go after the most unrelated sources to try and make themselves look big and busy . Why not just build a big wall to cut itself off from the rest of the world , and set up high security check points so cars coming and going can be checked to ensure no contraband is being smuggled in .""",DISAGREE,"""The officials also announced a new citywide public awareness campaign about the dangers of toy guns that look real and real guns that look like toys . Despite the fact that New York City s toy and imitation gun law has been in existence for several years many merchants continue to sell items that resemble real guns , said Council Speaker Quinn .""","""The desperate flailings of a city with absolutely no common sense . They 're so impotent in their abilities to get tough on criminals , they feel it necessary to go after the most unrelated sources to try and make themselves look big and busy""",,
27933,7320,"""the fact that you think life can be created out of non-life in 10 years show how little you know about biology""","""Actually , 2 viruses and a bacteria have been constructed by building the genome from nucleic acids .""",DISAGREE,"""show how little you know about biology""","""Actually , 2 viruses and a bacteria have been constructed by building the genome from nucleic acids .""",,
27968,7327,"""Who 's to say that anyone Bush might appoint would n't strike down a constitutional amendment that bans gay marriage ? The justices are not to be the puppets of the legislature or the president . Do n't forget Richard Nixon 's appointment of Harry Blackmun .""","""Because the judges President Bush nominates are strict constructionist.They interpret the law not make it ........... That is the worse nightmare for a liberal or a gay who depend on judges to over rule the vote of the people ............ They ca n't win at the ballot box so they think they can win in the courts .... It wo n't happen.get use to it ................""",DISAGREE,"""anyone Bush might appoint would n't strike down a constitutional amendment that bans gay marriage ?""","""the judges President Bush nominates are strict""",,
27983,7330,"""I 'm afraid you 're wrong , as I created you in my universe , and implanted in you a belief that you were a god . It lead you to make statements about the truth of your own beliefs , which I 'm afraid are just self-beliefs with no real evidence . Sorry .""","""I 'm afraid it is you who is wrong . I created you so that you would think you created me to think I created everything , even though I did . It 's more of a challenge that way to try to convert people to the one true religion . Since you can see that I wo n't be able to convert the world ( it 's due in a week ) , you can pay $ 100 dollars to me so I will take you with me to the upper world .""",DISAGREE,"""I created you in my universe , and implanted in you a belief that you were a god . It lead you to make statements about the truth of your own""","""you can see that I wo n't be able to convert the world ( it 's due in a week ) , you can pay $ 100 dollars to me so I will take you with me to the upper world .""",,
28023,7337,"""Hmm , abortion debate ... walks away very very slowly .""","""haha , probably very smart of you It gets heated in here""",DISAGREE,"""walks away very very slowly .""","""probably very smart of you""",,
28048,7344,"""Without language , the sailor would see neither sea nor sky - indeed , he would not have a boat !""","""But the sea and sky are the same regardless . I would say the sailor conceives the information with language . He infers the information with language .""",DISAGREE,"""indeed , he would not have a boat""","""But the sea and sky are the same regardless . I would say the sailor conceives the information with language .""",,
28077,7349,"""While I again feel that it should be assumed he would do so to begin with , I can agree that a simple answer as you say would have been easy enough .""","""You accuse others of making an assumption to the answer . But then you admit that YOU think the answer should have been assumed . Do you see a problem here ?""",DISAGREE,"""I again feel that it should be assumed he would do so to begin with""","""you admit that YOU think the answer should have been assumed . Do you see a problem here ?""",,
28107,7365,"""Do guns really deter burglars ? Here 's an interesting study . '' In one sample of state prisoners , 74 percent agreed that one reason burglars avoid residences when people are at home is that they fear being shot . At the same time , burglars also report that guns are of considerable value to them .... Interviews with active burglars suggest that they typically prefer items that are easy to carry , easily concealed , and have high 'pound for pound ' value . As one burglar reported : ' A gun is money with a trigger ' .... Results from the Uniform Crime Reports and NCVS data suggest that gun prevalence may increase the odds of being burglarized . Our analyses find that a 10-percent increase in a county 's gun ownership rate is associated with a 3-percent to 7-percent increase in the likelihood that a home will be burglarized . The likelihood that a burglary is 'hot ' ( that is , that a resident is at home during the break-in ) does not appear to be affected by the prevalence of gun ownership .... One possible reason why the risk of burglary increases with gun prevalence is that guns are valuable loot .... Keeping a gun at home is unlikely to provide a net benefit to the rest of the community in the form of burglary deterrence . If anything , residences in a neighborhood with more guns may be at greater risk of being burglarized . The upshot is ironic : Guns are often kept to protect the home , but the aggregate effect of keeping guns at home may be to increase the victimization rate. `` http : //www.jointogether.org/gv/news/ ... 566426,00.html Criminals fear being shot , but they also want to steal guns .""","""So you are saying that because the gun is of value you should just let the burgular take everything else of value , Rape your wife and possibly kill you all because you might get shot ? XXXX . You are now quoting that burgulars will invade homes more because there are guns in there ? Again this is this frauds own personal research to meet his agenda . Please show me his raw data .. otherwise it is XXXX . Your quote starts out with fact ( the 74 % ) then goes off into fantasy land of the quotes of one or two CRIMINALS who support your global socialist agenda and then he does `` his own study `` . XXXX ! GOA and other pro freedom groups footnote and annotate thier sources for your review not some `` oh we looked at the fbi statistics and from `` our own `` research we have found that pistol gripped assault rifles can go on a kill crazy rampage whether or not a human is actually holding the thing `` XXXX ! The latest is the BATFE is XXXXXX at the brady foundation for misrepresenting their data ... hmm ..... C R A P !""",DISAGREE,"""rate the aggregate effect of keeping guns at home may be to increase the victimization""","""So you are saying you should just let the burgular take everything else of value ...""",,
28113,7367,"""I personally can not find fault witht he intelligent design folks who feel that god guided evolution""","""Is there scientific evidence for this ?""",DISAGREE,"""I personally can not find fault witht he intelligent design folks who feel that god guided evolution""","""Is there scientific evidence for this ?""",,
28145,7375,"""ythe medical establishment has convinced people that we are what we are because what our genes say we are""","""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ? Why do you persist with these blatant lies ?""",DISAGREE,"""we are what we are because what our genes say we are""","""Which is why the `` medical establishment `` endorses smoking , drinking heavily and a fatty diet , with no excercise , because they believe we are predestined by our genes , right ?""",,
28158,7378,"""Your definition of `` children `` is questionable .""","""As is yours . I 'm ready willing and able to defend mine . Are you ?""",DISAGREE,"""children""","""ready willing and able to defend mine""",,
28160,7379,"""Too late , drug usage has already created those epidemics . Legalizing drugs may increase some of them temporarily , but they already exist . I would argue that there would be a decrease in crime , for certain .""","""If there is a positive relationship between drug consumption and crime , it doesn ` t seem very likely that crime would go down as a result of lowering the price on drugs ( and thus rasing consumption ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Too late drug usage has already created those epidemics Legalizing drugs would be a decrease in crime""","""If there is a positive relationship between drug consumption and crime , it doesn t seem very likely that crime would go down""",,
28164,7380,"""Whether an all-out ban on guns is good or bad ( or constitutional ) , or an assault-weapons ban is good or bad ( or constitutional ) , it should be obvious to any reader that the Columbus city council is trying to push through an all-out ban on guns by calling this an assault weapons ban .""","""The Second Amendment does not apply to an Ohio Law . Thus , this ban is not unconstituitonal under the US Constitution . The Ohio Constitution , may however , protect gun rights , but I have n't read it .""",DISAGREE,"""Whether an all-out ban on guns is good or bad ( or constitutional ) the Columbus city council is trying to push through an all-out ban on guns by calling this an assault weapons ban .""","""Second Amendment does not apply to an Ohio Law this ban is not unconstituitonal under the US Constitution . The Ohio Constitution , may however , protect gun rights""",,
28173,7382,"""I 'm just waiting for a logical arguement to debate against . I have n't heard one yet . Neo-darwinism is more than just gasping for air -- it 's stone-cold dead .""","""Well , you would n't find a logical argument if you only read your own posts , now would you ? To find a logical argument to debate against , I would recommend 4forums.com in the creation vs. evolution section . Of course , only creationists have the honor of debating against logical arguments . Also , denying that our arguments are logical does nothing . Please attempt to refute them . We refute yours , even though we see no logic . Finally , Darwin 's Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is not a theory in crisis in any way . Get over it .""",DISAGREE,"""waiting for a logical have n't heard one yet Neo-darwinism is more than just gasping for air -- it 's dead""","""you would n't find a logical argument if you only read your own posts Of course , only creationists have the honor of debating against logical arguments . Also , denying that our arguments are logical does nothing .""",,
28182,7384,"""2 ) The need to display information from a reputable source . Just to clarify Flynt is Larry Flynt since you seemed to leave this detail out . This transcript comes from a bulletin board and the sources it cites are at places like gwbushnotmypresident.com and atheist.org I 'm sure neither of these websites has an agenda . The end of the post displays an anti-Republican manifesto showing that the person who posted it did it with such impartiality . I 'm sure they are focusing on being fair and balanced .""","""It 's true , I find the story on sites that are generally anti-bush . However , this was a radio show transcript , not a site . Larry Flint says `` ' I 've talked to the woman 's friends , ' Flynt said . ' I 've tracked down the doctor who did the abortion , I tracked down the Bush people who arranged for the abortion , ' Flynt said . ' I got the story nailed. `` I have n't seen it either confirmed or denied by anyone more reputable .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm sure they are focusing on being fair and balanced .""","""I have n't seen it either confirmed or denied by anyone more reputable .""",,
28189,7386,"""... the scientific outlook making people mistake religious meaning for scientific meaning , causing them to either think the Bible must be scientifically true because it 's religiously meaningful , or that it must be religiously meaningless because it 's scientifically false . Richard Dawkins and the average creationist make the same fundamental mistake - the greeks would say they mistook 'muthos ' ( myth , allegory ) for 'logos ' ( reason , science )""","""There 's more to the adoption of an atheistic stance than just rejecting the bible because it 's scientifically false . 'The bible is scientific nonsense , therefore there is no god ' is not a logical stance . Modern-day citizens are far more likely to be aware of the sheer range of religious views in human cultures , past and present , and the consequent improbability that just one of them ( and hey , waddaya know ? It 's mine ! ) is wholly true and all the others wholly false . This leads some into woolly New-Age-ist pick-and-mixing ; others to conclude that the world 's religions are all the product of a similar , purely mundane , process of cultural evolution , and that none actually reflects fundamental truths .""",DISAGREE,"""religiously""","""religious views""",,
28190,7386,"""... the scientific outlook making people mistake religious meaning for scientific meaning , causing them to either think the Bible must be scientifically true because it 's religiously meaningful , or that it must be religiously meaningless because it 's scientifically false . Richard Dawkins and the average creationist make the same fundamental mistake - the greeks would say they mistook 'muthos ' ( myth , allegory ) for 'logos ' ( reason , science )""","""There 's more to the adoption of an atheistic stance than just rejecting the bible because it 's scientifically false . 'The bible is scientific nonsense , therefore there is no god ' is not a logical stance . Modern-day citizens are far more likely to be aware of the sheer range of religious views in human cultures , past and present , and the consequent improbability that just one of them ( and hey , waddaya know ? It 's mine ! ) is wholly true and all the others wholly false . This leads some into woolly New-Age-ist pick-and-mixing ; others to conclude that the world 's religions are all the product of a similar , purely mundane , process of cultural evolution , and that none actually reflects fundamental truths .""",DISAGREE,"""the scientific outlook making people mistake religious meaning for scientific meaning , causing them to either think the Bible must be scientifically true because it 's religiously meaningful ,""","""There 's more to the adoption of an atheistic stance than just rejecting the bible because it 's scientifically false . '""",,
28197,7387,"""What is ? Whether abortion is right or wrong is a matter of opinion , unless you 're trying to say that everyone who supports it secretly is against it .""","""Well then . Murder is an opinion .""",DISAGREE,"""Whether abortion is right or wrong is a matter of opinion""","""Well then . Murder is an opinion .""",,
28213,7390,"""The Republicans learned during the Clinton years that creating as much as paranoia as possible about the Democrats supporting big government is the way to regain a majority in Congress . It 's all politics .""","""You call the signing of the 1994 `` Assault Weapons Ban `` into law , which banned the sale of so-called `` assault weapons `` , simple paranoia ?""",DISAGREE,"""The Republicans learned during the Clinton years that creating as much as paranoia as possible""","""which banned the sale of so-called `` assault weapons""",,
28249,7397,"""Each individual has the right to self defense no matter what their IQ , or no matter how `` dumb `` they appear to be . There are set standards and `` guidelines `` most states have set up in order to determine whether or not a person `` qualifies `` to carry a gun . While I understand the purpose , and I understand what these state CCW qualifications are designed to do , I am NOT comfortable with the idea of having the state use any method to determine if I `` qualify `` for a right . Do you have to pass a qualification for free speech ? How about a test to see if you can go to church ? Do you have to fill out a questionairre to get protection from illegal search and seizure ? Each and every individual , regardless of their intelligence , should have the right to defend their lives in the most efficient manner they choose . Are there some people out there who just should n't have a gun ? Of course . There is a method used to weed these people out . When they do something illegal or truly `` dumb `` , the cops arrest them and take away their legal ability to carry . Until that time EVERYONE deserves the right to carry a gun , no matter where they fall on your personal intelligence scale .""","""Who would I trust with a firearm ? Anyone I would trust to drive a car . Until they did something to justify why they should n't have one . We are all free , until we do something that justifies the removal of our freedom . We are not born as slaves who have to qualify to receive it .""",DISAGREE,"""I am NOT comfortable with the idea of having the state use any method to determine if I `` qualify `` for a right .""","""We are not born as slaves who have to qualify to receive it .""",,
28272,7401,"""`` ( 22 . ) Criminals , being the lowlife , deviant scum they are , would never be smart enough to anticipate the possibility that their victims might be armed , and would thus never take along guns themselves .""","""Criminals continually inform the public that their greatest fear is a victim capable of fighting back against them and possibly killing them .""",DISAGREE,"""Criminals , would never be smart enough to anticipate the possibility that their victims might be armed""","""Criminals continually inform the public that their greatest fear is a victim capable of fighting back""",,
28276,7402,"""If you think about it , every phsyical cause or mechanism of evoution is either conservative or degnerating [ sic ] . First you have natural selection – which is essentially a weeding out process .""","""It is both conservative and helpful , depending on the situation . An explanation is available upon request .""",DISAGREE,"""If you think about it , every phsyical cause or mechanism of evoution is either conservative or degnerating""","""It is both conservative and helpful , depending on the situation .""",,
28281,7403,"""The morning after pill has the potential to destroy that unique post-conception human entity . Regardless of whether it 's right or wrong in somebody 's eyes does not change the truth written above .""","""Well , the pill has the ability to not let it implant , which `` God `` already cause for around 60 % of its contemporaries . The pill does n't destroy the `` entity `` at all .""",DISAGREE,"""The morning after pill has the potential to destroy that unique post-conception human entity .""","""The pill does n't destroy the `` entity `` at all .""",,
28288,7404,"""# There were 7,387 black homicide victims in the United States . Of these , 6,345 ( 86 percent ) were male , and 1,042 ( 14 percent ) were female . # The homicide rate for black victims in the United States was 20.86 per 100,000 . In comparison , the overall national homicide rate was 5.30 per 100,000 and the national homicide rate for whites was 3.11 per 100,000 . # For homicides in which the weapon used could be identified , 82 percent of black victims ( 5,743 out of 7,011 ) were killed with guns . Of these , 73 percent ( 4,204 victims ) were killed with handguns . There were 701 victims killed with knives or other cutting instruments , 247 victims killed by bodily force , and 200 victims killed by a blunt object . Hes betrayed his own people !""","""Because most black neighborhoods are in big cities , and most big cities have tough gun laws .""",DISAGREE,"""Hes betrayed his own people !""","""most black neighborhoods are in big cities , and most big cities have tough gun laws""",,
28293,7405,"""NO I mean every word of what I type . If they institute these rules I will back off gay claim to marriage and accept that marriage is about children . As long as they continue to let 70 and 80 year olds get married marriage is not about children and there is no reason to exclude gay people . I would also add one more lisencing rule 8 No one may have children with out a marriage lisence .""","""Well I got ta hand it to you , Matt , you 're consistent .""",DISAGREE,"""I mean every word of what I type""","""you 're consistent""",,
28290,7405,"""NO I mean every word of what I type . If they institute these rules I will back off gay claim to marriage and accept that marriage is about children . As long as they continue to let 70 and 80 year olds get married marriage is not about children and there is no reason to exclude gay people . I would also add one more lisencing rule 8 No one may have children with out a marriage lisence .""","""Well I got ta hand it to you , Matt , you 're consistent .""",DISAGREE,"""If they institute these rules I will back off gay claim to marriage and accept that marriage is about children .""","""Well I got ta hand it to you , Matt , you 're consistent .""",,
28308,7408,"""Evolutionists like to think that Selection can reverse the effects of biological decay . They ’ ve argued this for decades .""","""True .""",AGREE,"""Evolutionists like to think that Selection can reverse the effects of biological decay .""","""True .""",,
28351,7415,"""It 's not faith if it 's validated scientifically .""","""Why not ? There 's no rules that say faith and science must be separate .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not faith if it 's validated scientifically .""","""Why not ? There 's no rules that say faith and science must be separate .""",,
28380,7420,"""Warsaw : That is your most stupid argument and it really makes me angry . In the ghetto of Warsaw , there WAS an armed uprise . The result ? The Germans massacred thousands as revenge . And if they had more guns , maybe the Germans simply had bombed the whole ghetto with their planes . Please don´t you ever bring on any arguments against gun-control by showing examples from the 3 . Reich . Gun-control got nothing to do with the increase of Hitler´s power or the way that WW2 went .""","""It could be argued that the delays in germanies advancement due to armed civil defenses gave the allies a chance to mobilize . IT is a case of `` what might have happened `` , though , so it is impossible to tell for sure . With Hitler you had a unique situation which involved a tyrant and a lunatic in charge of a country , but with the popular support of the population . I would have to agree that resistance against Hitler did n't lead to any great victories . Of course , ( and playing `` might have been again `` ) if more people had realised what kind of threat he actually posd , perhaps the resistance would have been more popular and successful . [ QUOTE } The rest of your post I maybe reply to later , but it is always exhausting to write against any uncited and unproven claims ... [ /quote ] It is rather difficult to debate with PH , is n't it ? I think it is because he does n't debate , he just types s bunch of XXXX and then goes `` SO THERE ! '' . It is amusing to watch , though/""",DISAGREE,"""Warsaw : That is your most stupid argument and it really makes me angry . In the ghetto of Warsaw , there WAS an armed uprise . The result ? The Germans massacred thousands as revenge . And if they had more guns , maybe the Germans simply had bombed the whole ghetto with their planes .""","""It could be argued that the delays in germanies advancement due to armed civil defenses gave the allies a chance to mobilize .""",,
28385,7422,"""Oh Good Grief ! It sounds very like you are extremely unsure of your manhood to be so threatened by a funny little story .""","""be quiet simone , if it made fun of women you 'd be all over it .""",DISAGREE,"""you are extremely unsure of your manhood to be so threatened by a funny little story""","""be quiet , if made fun of women you 'd be all over it""",,
28393,7424,"""Is marriage a civil right or a religious right ?""","""I believe the OP misspoke ; I * think * the question ought to have been 'Is marriage a civil or religious rite ? ' . Hopefully they can post back and confirm .""",DISAGREE,"""Is marriage a civil right or a religious right ?""","""question ought to have been 'Is marriage a civil or religious rite ? '""",,
28406,7428,"""Does the father of the child have a say in this ?""","""Nope . However , he does get to pay child support if he gets caught .""",DISAGREE,"""Does the father of the child have a say in this ?""","""Nope . However , he does get to pay child support if he gets caught .""",,
28408,7429,"""The Silent Scream is full of inaccuracies , as this link demonstrates ... http : //www.plannedparenthood.org/abo ... lentscream.HTM""","""Jake , Thanks for finding that link again . Perhaps you can answer the same question I posed to Carla ?""",DISAGREE,"""The Silent Scream is full of inaccuracies , as this link demonstrates ...""","""Jake , Thanks for finding that link again .""",,
28407,7429,"""The Silent Scream is full of inaccuracies , as this link demonstrates ... http : //www.plannedparenthood.org/abo ... lentscream.HTM""","""Jake , Thanks for finding that link again . Perhaps you can answer the same question I posed to Carla ?""",DISAGREE,"""The Silent Scream is full of inaccuracies , as this link demonstrates""","""Jake , Thanks for finding that link again . Perhaps you can answer the same question I posed to Carla ?""",,
28413,7430,"""The age of the earth is just right for supporting life ( us ) . Add , or subtract , a couple of million years , and we would n't be here . I think God created the earth just like it is , just for us .""","""I do n't know if we can be as accurate as a couple of million years , but I agree that the age of the earth is just right for supporting man .""",DISAGREE,"""The age of the earth is just right for supporting life ( us ) . Add , or subtract , a couple of million years , and we would n't be here . I think God created the earth just like it is , just for us .""","""I do n't know if we can be as accurate as a couple of million years , but I agree that the age of the earth is just right for supporting man .""",,
28414,7430,"""The age of the earth is just right for supporting life ( us ) . Add , or subtract , a couple of million years , and we would n't be here . I think God created the earth just like it is , just for us .""","""I do n't know if we can be as accurate as a couple of million years , but I agree that the age of the earth is just right for supporting man .""",DISAGREE,"""age of the earth is just right Add , or subtract , a couple of million years""","""I do n't know if we can be as accurate but I agree that the age of the earth is just right""",,
28419,7432,"""Your quiz consists of two multiple choice and an essay question . Let 's begin : 1 . Jesus was : A. a myth ; invented by heretical Jews , he never existed . B. an ordinary man who attracted a following by performing `` tricks `` and making interesting statements ; disengenuos and decieving his followers C. an amazing moral teacher , nothing more D. a complete madman . E. Other ( limit your response to 50 words )""","""Jesus was then what he is now : the Logos of God ( Philo , quis rerum divinarum heres 42.405 ) , the heavenly High Priest ( Hebrews ) , the culmination of God ’ s eternal plan ( Ro . 16:25 ) , the secret mystery only now , after his sacrifice , revealed through revelation and scripture ( 1 Cor 2:6-13 ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Jesus was : A. a myth ; invented by heretical Jews , he never existed . B. an ordinary man who attracted a following by performing `` tricks `` and making interesting statements ; disengenuos and decieving his followers C. an amazing moral teacher , nothing more""","""Jesus was then what he is now : the Logos of God ( Philo , quis rerum divinarum heres 42.405 ) , the heavenly High Priest ( Hebrews ) , the culmination of God ’ s eternal plan""",,
28428,7434,"""Is it possible that the `` rigidity `` of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce when one partner is n't as `` on board `` as the other ? Many people have only joined these churches of late and were already married when they did . Just thinkin ' .""","""I think you nailed it ! I also think that if you are willing to give up your relationship over religion you could be on the border of addiction not faith . ( not you personally , but rhetorically )""",AGREE,"""Is it possible that the `` rigidity `` of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce when one partner is n't as `` on board `` as the other ?""","""I think you nailed it ! I also think that if you are willing to give up your relationship over religion you could be on the border of addiction not faith .""",,
28427,7434,"""Is it possible that the `` rigidity `` of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce when one partner is n't as `` on board `` as the other ? Many people have only joined these churches of late and were already married when they did . Just thinkin ' .""","""I think you nailed it ! I also think that if you are willing to give up your relationship over religion you could be on the border of addiction not faith . ( not you personally , but rhetorically )""",AGREE,"""Is it possible that the `` rigidity `` of many evangelical churches and what they expect of their members drives couples to divorce when one partner is n't as `` on board `` as the other ? Many people have only joined these churches of late and were already married when they did .""","""I think you nailed it ! I also think that if you are willing to give up your relationship over religion you could be on the border of addiction not faith .""",,
28434,7442,"""Where are the pro choice people ? What is their position on this ? Can they say that women have inherent value and worth and what is their reasoning ? Are women inherently more valuable than plants and animals and what is the reasoning behind your answer ?""","""Just for you then I 'm not really sure why you would say its a point overlooked though , its pretty much the point of the pro-choice movement more or less . We do n't think a fetus has a negative value and that its best to be rid of as many as possible , its just that they do n't have the same value as the well being of the woman . That said I probably would n't use terms like 'inherent value ' as I do n't belieive in that sort of thing . I think that in the context of our society and the rules that allow us to live the lives we more or less want then we need to recognise other people 's rights regardless of gender . Its a lot more important to me for a woman to be able to have an abortion than it is for a fetus not to be able to be aborted as the former will have consquences for me but the latter wo n't ( or at least greatly reduced and less definite ones ) . Its more or less what seperates them from plants and animals ( though its a bit wierd one this last point and I 'm a massive hypocrite when its comes to this ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Where are the pro choice people ? What is their position on this ?""","""Just for you then I 'm not really sure why you would say its a point overlooked though , its pretty much the point of the pro-choice movement more or less .""",,
28450,7445,"""So you 're accusing me of the thing that your most guilty of ? As I remember your posts have been censored several times by admin because you resorted to viscious personal attacks and name calling . And are n't you interested in the truth . Why is n't whether Jefferson said it or not important ?""","""TImbo Timbo Timbo ... This is the internet ... IT ca n't hurt you .. Why do n't you drop the venom .... I do n't know what a `` viscious `` personal attack is ... I have only retaliated in kind ... You seem incapable of fostering your own thoughts and can only critisize others ... I know where most people stand on these boards but you like a typical lunatic fringe liberal keep your agenda under wraps ...""",DISAGREE,"""As I remember your posts have been censored several times by admin because you resorted to viscious personal attacks and name calling .""","""Why do n't you drop the venom .... I do n't know what a `` viscious `` personal attack is ... I have only retaliated in kind""",,
28468,7449,"""The `` information `` added is about how to survive changed circumstances .""","""Ah ha ! Someone who understands the application of information theory to biological organisms . By the biological specific definition of information , the genome of any organism is information about the environment in which it lives .""",AGREE,"""The `` information `` added is about how to survive changed circumstances .""","""Someone who understands the application of information theory to biological organisms""",,
28470,7450,"""Did you know that in Siberia they are HAPPY that it ’ s getting warmer up there ?""","""And down south wear the majority of people live , they are n't . The people in Siberia wo n't be too happy when their food source dries up .""",DISAGREE,"""Did you know that in Siberia they are HAPPY that it ’ s getting warmer up there ?""","""And down south wear the majority of people live , they are n't .""",,
28485,7455,"""And there is nothing surprising about my being able to think for myself and reject the religion of evolution . Both Evolution and Creation must be taken by faith .""","""Make up your mind . Above you were claiming that there is evidence of your god and now you are claiming that it is a matter of faith . My faith is something different from evolution . I take nothing in science by faith . Science is based on empirical evidence - that means the I can quantify it in some way . Of course , if there is empirical evidence for your god , then your god is not supernatural but just another part of the universe . But is n't it funny that you creationists always think that the worst insult you can throw at science is to call it faith ? Sadly , you are unable to reject the dogma of the mythology of ancient , nomadic herdsmen . To assert that as science is certainly not thinking for oneself .""",DISAGREE,"""Both Evolution and Creation must be taken by faith .""","""Science is based on empirical evidence - that means the I can quantify it in some way .""",,
28503,7460,"""And if you 've ever read any of the speeches by PP 's founder , you 'd also know that every child should be a WHITE CHILD , too . She was an extreme racist and started PP as a means of stopping the increasing number of poor blacks . There was no altruism involved in PP 's `` birth `` .""","""And ? What relevance does this have to PP today ?""",DISAGREE,"""And if you 've ever read any of the speeches by PP 's founder , you 'd also know that every child should be a WHITE CHILD , too .""","""And ? What relevance does this have to PP today ?""",,
28507,7461,"""I am `` curious `` however , why you 're now saying that you are arguing that a tautology is a tautology ? It seems ... misleading the way you try to broaden the tautology of one phrase , to all of evolution , as seen in your statement `` evolution contains tautology `` .""","""Not at all . The theory of evolution contains many many things .""",DISAGREE,"""evolution contains tautology""","""Not at all . The theory of evolution contains many many things .""",,
28511,7462,"""all right brady , we will tie 3/4ths of his brain behind his back and stay out of it . Like those odds ?""","""What 's that smell ? Did someone leave the bathroom door open ?""",DISAGREE,"""we will tie 3/4ths of his brain behind his back and stay out of it . Like those odds ?""","""Did someone leave the bathroom door open ?""",,
28518,7470,"""http : //www.straight-talk.net/evolution/explosion.htm""","""Out of curiosity , are you aware that that page is from a Young-Earth Creationist site ? The material it presents is outdated , wrong , and/or has been distorted by them , in order to fit into their fundamentalist , religious worldview .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.straight-talk.net/evolution/explosion.htm""","""The material it presents is outdated , wrong , and/or has been distorted by them , in order to fit into their fundamentalist , religious worldview .""",,
28534,7473,"""Cuts off man 's hand , lacerates his upper body , police say BALTIMORE - A Johns Hopkins University student armed with a samurai sword killed a suspected burglar in a garage behind his off-campus home early Tuesday , hours after someone broke in and stole electronics . Some shocked neighbors said they heard bloodcurdling screams in an area just blocks from the university . Police held the student , a junior chemistry major who turns 21 on Sunday , for several hours , but no charges were filed by early afternoon , said police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi .""","""Oh , if we only had the requisite absolute civilian gun bans , sick things like this would never happen ! Huh Brady ?""",DISAGREE,"""Cuts off man 's hand , lacerates his upper body , police say BALTIMORE - A Johns Hopkins University student armed with a samurai sword killed a suspected burglar in a garage behind his off-campus home early Tuesday , hours after someone broke in and stole electronics .""","""if we only had the requisite absolute civilian gun bans""",,
28543,7474,"""If this was on Indian property , the Federal Gun Control Laws do n't apply anyway .""","""So if the laws did n't apply here because of it being a reservation , stricter laws would not change anything ( unless ammended to apply ) . But even so , the killer would still have gotten the guns because the person he got them from had the right and duty to have them .""",DISAGREE,"""If this was on Indian property , the Federal Gun Control Laws do n't apply anyway .""","""stricter laws would not change anything ( unless ammended to apply ) . But even so , the killer would still have gotten the guns because the person he got them from had the right and duty to have them .""",,
28541,7474,"""If this was on Indian property , the Federal Gun Control Laws do n't apply anyway .""","""So if the laws did n't apply here because of it being a reservation , stricter laws would not change anything ( unless ammended to apply ) . But even so , the killer would still have gotten the guns because the person he got them from had the right and duty to have them .""",DISAGREE,"""If this was on Indian property , the Federal Gun Control Laws do n't apply anyway .""","""So if the laws did n't apply here because of it being a reservation , stricter laws would not change anything""",,
28551,7476,"""What you ( Creationists ) do n't seem to know is that many Anthropologists are Christians . I know quite a few .""","""But they ca n't be true christians if they accept evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""many Anthropologists are Christians""","""But they ca n't be true christians if they accept evolution .""",,
28569,7479,"""It 's not a loophole if the gay partner has no legal standing . As far as the employer is concerned , the partner is a non-issue . Now , if you could prove that an employer did n't hire you because YOU were gay , that 'd be a whole different ballgame .""","""Well earlier you seemed interested in the idea that a loophole might exist that allowed people to avoid taxes . In this case I was only suggesting that a loophole could exist which allows companies to save money by hiring gay people instead of straight people in order to cut health insurance costs . As I said , it is n't really a strong argument , but maybe an interesting one .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not a loophole if the gay partner has no legal standing . As far as the employer is concerned , the partner is a non-issue .""","""Well earlier you seemed interested in the idea that a loophole might exist that allowed people to avoid taxes . I was only suggesting that a loophole could exist which allows companies to save money by hiring gay people instead of straight people in order to cut health insurance costs .""",,
28568,7479,"""It 's not a loophole if the gay partner has no legal standing . As far as the employer is concerned , the partner is a non-issue . Now , if you could prove that an employer did n't hire you because YOU were gay , that 'd be a whole different ballgame .""","""Well earlier you seemed interested in the idea that a loophole might exist that allowed people to avoid taxes . In this case I was only suggesting that a loophole could exist which allows companies to save money by hiring gay people instead of straight people in order to cut health insurance costs . As I said , it is n't really a strong argument , but maybe an interesting one .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not a loophole""","""I was only suggesting that a loophole could exist""",,
28572,7480,"""Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth ( 0.0000001 % ) of an animal 's genome is completely fatal .""","""Bull XXXX . Best I can tell , our Creationist is confusing CAN with CERTAINLY WILL . In certain cases , a specific single nucleotide change CAN be lethal , but that 's not at all what the Creationist is claiming . Although this is an imperfect analogy , to see the general flaw in his logic , consider this statement : `` Science has now shown that being in a car accident is completely fatal. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Science has now quantitated that a genetic mutation of as little as 1 billionth ( 0.0000001 % ) of an animal 's genome is completely fatal .""","""Best I can tell , our Creationist is confusing CAN with CERTAINLY WILL . In certain cases , a specific single nucleotide change CAN be lethal , but that 's not at all what the Creationist is claiming ``""",,
28590,7483,"""I don ' want any more children . My son is nearly ten . That is a pretty big age difference . I especially do n't want to raise any more alone , and I do n't have a big confidence level in men ( my problem due to my history with them - I know there are good ones out there ) . Current conservative legistlation has me worried . Although I am indeed abstinate and have been for years , I ca n't guarentee that in the future . And although I practice safe sex when sexually active , there are remote chances of rape , or the more likely failed birth control . I would not have an abortion unless rape or medical need - so I will do all I can not to get pregnant again - now or in the future . And it sends a message . This body is mine . I choose now - to never be pregnant again - regardless of the circumstances .""","""I think that getting your tubes tied is a responsible act . I was just inquiring about the motive for doing so . Too bad more women ( and men ) do n't share your level of responsibility . If they did , we would n't need to debate the `` need `` for abortions .""",AGREE,"""And although I practice safe sex when sexually active , there are remote chances of rape , or the more likely failed birth control . I would not have an abortion unless rape or medical need - so I will do all I can not to get pregnant again - now or in the future . And it sends a message . This body is mine . I choose now - to never be pregnant again - regardless of the circumstances .""","""I was just inquiring about the motive for doing so . Too bad more women ( and men ) do n't share your level of responsibility . If they did , we would n't need to debate the `` need `` for abortions .""",,
28613,7489,"""The difference now is that healthcare in the US is n't a scarce resource .""","""You must be smoking a really strong stuff . The only system where resources are not scarce is the communism of Karl Marx .""",DISAGREE,"""The difference now is that healthcare in the US is n't a scarce resource .""","""You must be smoking a really strong stuff .""",,
28621,7491,"""That analogy does n't work here . It appears that your beef is with the prestige associated with being able to say `` We 're married. `` as opposed to recognizing yourselves as `` same-sex couples with all the rights and privileges afforded married couples `` . The fact is that people are not prohibited from being married because of their sexual orientation . A gay man can marry any woman that will have him . A lesbian can marry any man that will have her . You are not denied the right to marry ... so long as you comply with the rules of marriage ... including the one about one male and one female . Changing definitions just to satisfy the ego of any one group is patently ridiculous . One might ask why we ca n't call ourselves female when we are actually male or why males should n't be allowed to enroll in an all girls school . If it benefits you want , have at it . Work on Congress to come up with something like PACS . If it 's an attack on the definition of marriage , then get lost .""","""What foundits attitude proves is that the homosexual agenda 's standard claim for decades now that it is `` EQUALITY `` which they seek has been nothing more than a huge smoke screen which I have been saying in every debate we have ever had . When a compromise plan is recommended and is working fine in France , which gives them every single right of social and economic equality they have ever asked for , that still is n't enough . They wont rest until they redefine marriage for the rest of us . I 'll bet the Goodridges would love this plan , in hindsight . First Same-Sex Couple to Marry in the U.S . Files for Divorce""",DISAGREE,"""That analogy does n't work here . `` We 're married. `` same-sex couples with all the rights and privileges afforded married couples ``""","""proves is that the homosexual agenda 's standard claim for decades now that it is `` EQUALITY `` When a compromise plan is recommended and is working fine in France , which gives them every single right""",,
28638,7494,"""It 's what I mean when I say that when church and state are separated , atheism and state are combined .""","""Incredibly enough , ignoring my rebuttal does n't make you right .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's what I mean when I say that when church and state are separated ,""","""Incredibly enough , ignoring my rebuttal does n't make you right .""",,
28643,7495,"""Demand for those parts sure exists because people are trying to hurry and reconfigure their current rifles before DiFi and friends strike again . Do n't expect post-ban prices to go down though , that 's the current cost of parts . If anything , they 'll go up due to lack of supply for a limited time .""","""I agree with that . Several companies made enough extended magazines in anticipation of the ban that they 're still available for a reasonable price ten years later . As a business person the only question is going to be if grandfather rights will again be available if new legislation is passed . I spoke with a gun dealer I know who said manufacturer distributors are already calling dealers trying to determine what post-ban demand might be for pre-ban configurations . Bushmasters will be selling like hotcakes .""",AGREE,"""are trying to hurry and reconfigure their current rifles before DiFi and friends strike again .""","""I agree with that""",,
28644,7495,"""Demand for those parts sure exists because people are trying to hurry and reconfigure their current rifles before DiFi and friends strike again . Do n't expect post-ban prices to go down though , that 's the current cost of parts . If anything , they 'll go up due to lack of supply for a limited time .""","""I agree with that . Several companies made enough extended magazines in anticipation of the ban that they 're still available for a reasonable price ten years later . As a business person the only question is going to be if grandfather rights will again be available if new legislation is passed . I spoke with a gun dealer I know who said manufacturer distributors are already calling dealers trying to determine what post-ban demand might be for pre-ban configurations . Bushmasters will be selling like hotcakes .""",AGREE,"""Demand for those parts sure exists because people are trying to hurry and reconfigure their current rifles before DiFi and friends strike again .""","""I agree with that""",,
28657,7498,"""Human beings are the only sentient beings . We have a concept of the future which separates us from all other creatures .""","""I think others corrected you nicely on the future thing , but I would like to add that the only way humans are the only sentient beings is if we define sentient as something only humans are . If sentient merely means self-aware , I ca n't tell my cat 's self-awareness from my own , so I really could n't say who 's sentient and who 's not .""",DISAGREE,"""Human beings are the only sentient beings .""","""I would like to add that the only way humans are the only sentient beings is if we define sentient as something only humans are .""",,
28666,7500,"""However , a better set of inequalities is as follows : c + e > c - e e - c > e + c""","""Oops , I think YOU made a mistake here on the second one . This is the correct inequality based off of my original equation . e-c < e+c So , start over again .""",DISAGREE,"""However , a better set of inequalities is as follows : c + e > c - e e - c > e + c""","""YOU made a mistake here on the second one .""",,
28678,7503,"""Why is this clear ?""","""You 'll have to ask gnojek that . It appears he thinks that any pronouncement by a scientist suggesting CO2 production is a problem is a conspiracy theory by scientists to get bigger budgets : `` As scientists we will tell you that there is a major problem that can only be solved through science , which can only be done with money . We 're scientists and we really like grant money to do research . Would n't it be great if we had a global initiative to fund this research indefinitely , or until the global warming problem is solved ... `` It 's the YEC movement all over again : there 's no proof , the evidence could be interpreted either way , it 's a scientific conspiracy theory , the Devil is behind it : it 's un-Christian to cut back on fossil fuel burning etc""",DISAGREE,"""Why is this clear ?""","""You 'll have to ask gnojek that .""",,
28682,7504,"""Radioisotope dating is done on the rocks that fossils are found in .""","""Actually , the dating is done on layers above and below the rock in which fossils are found . You see , generally fossils are found in some sort of sedimentary rock . And sedimentary rock can not be dated . But a layer of volcanic ash above and below the fossil can be dated and thus give a date within a range .""",DISAGREE,"""Radioisotope dating is done on the rocks that fossils are found in .""","""the dating is done on layers above and below the rock in which fossils are found .""",,
28685,7505,"""So stupendously unlikely is the perfect mutation at the perfect time that calculating the odds against it taking place even once exceeds our imaginative capacity . It is , in fact , a miracle . Now multiply this improbability for all the useful traits belonging to more than fifty million life forms , and you see just how profoundly and irredeemably implausible neo-Darwinism really is .""","""And yet here we are and neo-Darwinism continues to have empirical support right and left with no sign of it being falsified in sight as of yet . Why might that be ? And you Bertvan do not exist since you are so highly improbable . Therefore I can safely assume that your post above just happened without your existense .""",DISAGREE,"""is the perfect mutation at the perfect time that calculating the odds against it taking place even once exceeds our imaginative capacity .""","""here we are and neo-Darwinism continues to have empirical support right and left with no sign of it being falsified in sight as of yet .""",,
28683,7505,"""So stupendously unlikely is the perfect mutation at the perfect time that calculating the odds against it taking place even once exceeds our imaginative capacity . It is , in fact , a miracle . Now multiply this improbability for all the useful traits belonging to more than fifty million life forms , and you see just how profoundly and irredeemably implausible neo-Darwinism really is .""","""And yet here we are and neo-Darwinism continues to have empirical support right and left with no sign of it being falsified in sight as of yet . Why might that be ? And you Bertvan do not exist since you are so highly improbable . Therefore I can safely assume that your post above just happened without your existense .""",DISAGREE,"""So stupendously unlikely is the perfect mutation at the perfect time you see just how profoundly and irredeemably implausible neo-Darwinism really is""","""And yet here we are and neo-Darwinism continues to have empirical support right and left with no sign of it being falsified in sight as of yet . And you Bertvan do not exist since you are so highly improbable .""",,
28699,7509,"""Since I do n't believe believe that everything had a common ancestor , a rock , I consider all ancient reptiles dinosaurs . If that is incorrect in your book so be it . We are not debating the definition of dinosaurs .""","""So there are `` ancient extinct reptiles `` to you ? These things indeed existed on Earth right ? In the creationist framework , when were these things on the Earth ? 5000 years ago ? Before the flood , after the flood ? Did Noah have dinosaurs ( sorry , ancient extinct reptiles ) on the ark ?""",DISAGREE,"""Since I do n't believe believe that everything had a common ancestor , a rock , I consider all ancient reptiles dinosaurs . If that is incorrect in your book so be it .""","""So there are `` ancient extinct reptiles `` to you ? These things indeed existed on Earth right ? In the creationist framework , when were these things on the Earth ?""",,
28706,7510,"""They say that members within the same species are in competition with each other .""","""They are : those that survive better reproduce more . Members of a species can die if other members have better food/light/attention/camaflouge .""",AGREE,"""members within the same species are in competition with each other .""","""They are""",,
28721,7513,"""You got numbers ? I 'm curious .""","""There is the ever popular `` smartest state `` report that places kansas at # 15 in the nation . It can be found at http : //www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm A lot of kansas educators take exception to that report because it factors in things that may not be related . For example , Kansas kids score in the top 5 states in ALL testing categories , BUT , we score 38th in spending per pupil . We score poorly in teacher salaries ( 28 ) , and do not have teachers on our school boards ( conflict of interest ) . All those factors count against us , as well as several others . Then you have new jersey and vermont , where the kids apparently ca n't take a test , and where their average SAT scores may be confused with a shoe size , and they score in the top 5 because they spend a LOT more than kansas . A lot of people argue that they penalize states for efficiency in their education system . If you want the most comprehensive report out there , go to www.alec.org and request a copy of their `` report card for education `` . I think it is free , and it breaks down the states by several categories . It is what I always used to figure out how good a job our system was doing .""",AGREE,"""I 'm curious""","""I think it is free , and it breaks down the states by several categories . It is what I always used to figure out how good a job our system was doing""",,
28803,7523,"""I 'll respnd [ sic ] to these other replies later .""","""Good- we were tired of you not responding or saying , `` it is n't worth my time. ``""",DISAGREE,"""I 'll respnd [ sic ] to these other replies later .""","""were tired of you not responding or saying ,""",,
28806,7524,"""Jyoshu , if these questions already had a pat and universal answer , it would n't be necessary to ask them in the first place . Since a QUESTION was being asked , it seems fairly reasonable to realize that no ASSUMPTION as to the answer to the question was being made ...""","""Well , I 'd say that since that sort of question do n't have a pat and universal answer , then that 's why they should n't have been asked in the first place , in this case . My view is that questions over a job like this should be about a person 's qualifications .""",DISAGREE,"""if these questions already had a pat and universal answer , it would n't be necessary to ask them in the first place .""","""since that sort of question do n't have a pat and universal answer , then that 's why they should n't have been asked in the first place""",,
28814,7525,"""We have to , marc says .""","""Because there are no ACLU lawsuits when Dawkin 's book is required reading in public schools . We have to more and more , as atheism is established .""",DISAGREE,"""We have to ,""","""We have to more and more , as atheism is established .""",,
28827,7528,"""So you support the idea of the government forcing or endorsing families that `` raise their children the right way ? `` And who gets to define that right way ?""","""I know I am raising my away as far away from the `` right `` way as possible . Get it ? wuka wuka wuka""",DISAGREE,"""So you support the idea of the government forcing or endorsing families that `` raise their children the right way ?""","""I know I am raising my away as far away from the `` right `` way as possible""",,
28828,7529,"""Virtually anything !""","""Which then would NOT be omnipotent/omniscient .""",DISAGREE,"""Virtually anything !""","""Which then would NOT be omnipotent/omniscient .""",,
28837,7531,"""I never said that the majority of gun owners are racist . If you think that being compared to gay rights activists is somehow demonizing you then perhaps that shows how you feel about gay people . The issue is conservatives using liberal tactics to advance a conservative agenda .""","""HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! rotflmao . yOU just committed suicide , ugh , gory !""",DISAGREE,"""I never said that the majority of gun owners are racist""","""yOU just committed suicide , ugh , gory !""",,
28842,7532,"""You have made yourself a fool with nothing but names and insults .""","""Let me make your accusations correct . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Now , after that , for once you 're telling the truth .""",DISAGREE,"""made yourself a fool nothing but names and insults .""","""make your accusations for once you 're telling the truth .""",,
28849,7534,"""You can ignore the obvious question . This is what I find most evolutionists do , they ignore other branches of science that militate against their belief system , and legitimate questions raised by others are dismissed as being ignorant , or worse `` religious `` .""","""Actually what they are really doing is ignoring silly irrelevent questions from clueless people with a religious agenda to promote .""",DISAGREE,"""You can ignore the obvious question . This is what I find most evolutionists do , they ignore other branches of science that militate against their belief system""","""Actually what they are really doing is ignoring silly irrelevent questions from clueless people""",,
28918,7549,"""And why is that ?""","""Because a large portion of people in jail now are there on drug-related charges .""",DISAGREE,"""And why is that ?""","""Because a large portion of people in jail now are there on drug-related charges .""",,
28922,7550,"""Mean while , California , is outlawing mail order ammunition purchases , allowing only 50 rounds at any one sale , and requiring a finger print at point of sale .""","""Oh yeah , like that has n't been tried before /sarcasm It darn sure is n't about crime control . No doubt some nefarious excuse to farther control the people and attempt to charge user fees to discourage a right . No doubt sinjin will approve so `` they `` can match fingerprints and type of ammo to the DROS registration file ?""",DISAGREE,"""outlawing mail order ammunition purchases , allowing only 50 rounds at any one sale""","""It darn sure is n't about crime control . No doubt some nefarious excuse to farther control the people and attempt to charge user fees to discourage a right""",,
28945,7555,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker A bear is still a bear . Sure , there are lots of kinds of bears , but they are still just that , bears .""","""So , is a giant Panda a bear ? Or some other `` kind `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker there are lots of kinds of bears ,""","""a giant Panda a bear ? some other `` kind `` ?""",,
28951,7556,"""The article was somewhat contradictory as well , condemning the Court for violating their own precedent ( `` In Roe , the Court for the first time considered liberty to be a psychological , sociological , and economic expression `` ) , while earlier they condemned precedent ( `` Mere precedent is a dangerous source of author i ty , and should not be regarded as deciding questions of constitutional power except where the acquiescence of the people and the States can be considered well settled `` ) . The articles main point , that the `` enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights , shall not be construed to deny or disparage othe r s retained by the people `` negates Roe v. Wade is erroneous , since the fetus has not been born and the Courts could find no precedent where the Constitution applied pre-natally .""","""But the Court went further than necessary . They set the point at which States could legally impose restrictions on abortion negating many state statutes in the process and establishing the `` right to abortion `` ON DEMAND at any time . That was an exercise in judicial activism . They took statures that existed in many states and arbitrarily determined at what point they could be applied . It 's not the Court 's function to legislate from the bench . It is up to the States and Federal Legislatures to determine at what point the fetus ' rights are protected .""",DISAGREE,"""somewhat contradictory condemning the Court negates Roe v. Wade""","""the Court went further than right to abortion""",,
28950,7556,"""The article was somewhat contradictory as well , condemning the Court for violating their own precedent ( `` In Roe , the Court for the first time considered liberty to be a psychological , sociological , and economic expression `` ) , while earlier they condemned precedent ( `` Mere precedent is a dangerous source of author i ty , and should not be regarded as deciding questions of constitutional power except where the acquiescence of the people and the States can be considered well settled `` ) . The articles main point , that the `` enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights , shall not be construed to deny or disparage othe r s retained by the people `` negates Roe v. Wade is erroneous , since the fetus has not been born and the Courts could find no precedent where the Constitution applied pre-natally .""","""But the Court went further than necessary . They set the point at which States could legally impose restrictions on abortion negating many state statutes in the process and establishing the `` right to abortion `` ON DEMAND at any time . That was an exercise in judicial activism . They took statures that existed in many states and arbitrarily determined at what point they could be applied . It 's not the Court 's function to legislate from the bench . It is up to the States and Federal Legislatures to determine at what point the fetus ' rights are protected .""",DISAGREE,"""condemning the Court for violating their own precedent ( `` In Roe , the Court for the first time considered""","""ON DEMAND at any time . That was an exercise in judicial activism .""",,
28956,7557,"""Bill lets public use lethal force on intruders | Irish Examiner Finally some common sense is coming to Ireland . Now the criminals are going to be behind the 8 ball rather than the homeowners . The Irish will soon have the ability to beat a home invader into unconsciousness with a bat , hunk of pipe or any other implement , if they catch them in the process of stealing their TV . And the burglar wo n't be able to do a damn thing about it . That 's how civilized society is supposed to work . The Castle Doctrine is spreading out from America to other nations , and it 's about damn time .""","""You think someone deserves to be beaten into unconsciousness with a bat for trying to steal a TV ?""",DISAGREE,"""use lethal force on intruders Irish will soon have the ability to beat a home invader""","""You think someone deserves to be beaten into unconsciousness""",,
28966,7560,"""I never considered dna to be junk . I was using that term , [ junk dna ] from what I had read in various 'scientific ' literature .""","""Cite me one . The only time I see `` junk DNA `` in the literature , there 's quote marks around it . We call it `` non-coding DNA. `` Barbarian observes : That happens , too . For example , our gene for vitamin C is broken and no longer works . .""",DISAGREE,"""I was using that term , [ junk dna ] from what I had read in various 'scientific ' literature .""","""Cite me one""",,
28996,7566,"""Maybe freedom FROM religion would be more appropriate in this case .""","""I figure that for freedom OF religion to continue , our freedom FROM religion must be guaranteed . How can our freedom OF religion be a sure thing , when other religions force themselves upon us throught the government and legal system ?""",AGREE,"""FROM religion would be more appropriate in this case .""","""How can our freedom OF religion be a sure thing , when other religions""",,
29003,7567,"""He calls Adam `` fictional `` on page 5 . It becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys .""","""Because the whole point of disproving Adam is to eliminate the idea of personal sin . Yep , that ’ s exactly why I ’ ve always disliked the Adam and Eve tale . Never mind the colossus of contradictory evidence—it ’ s all about making sure that vile idea of personal sin goes up in smoke with the fable itself .""",DISAGREE,"""If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy""","""Yep , that ’ s exactly why I ’ ve always disliked the Adam and Eve tale .""",,
29004,7568,"""I completely agree with this here . We need to teach kids how to think , and unfortunately , ID does n't seem to deal with thinking .""","""But it really does deal with thinking . It can invite a more wide open scientific investigation of ecological and developmental patterns . It 's not politically afraid to pursue facts about newly discovered complexities of life which pose problems for those trying to make a case for happenstance origins . It invites thought , not suppression , of irreducible complexity , another problem for happenstance origins .""",DISAGREE,"""ID does n't seem to deal with thinking .""","""But it really does deal with can invite a more wide open scientific investigation of ecological and developmental patterns . ,""",,
29021,7572,"""When i hear the word pregnant , i think of 2 people , not just 1 .""","""What a load .""",DISAGREE,"""When i hear the word pregnant , i think of 2 people , not just 1 .""","""What a load .""",,
29045,7577,"""I did not mean to go off topic . The point is that sometimes in order for people to see the other side of the coin , you have to beat them in the head with it . That is what the abortion protestors are doing . My example of a simlar strategy came to mind because it was recent . Whether youa re talking war , abortion , whatever , people become complacent . 1000 , or 10,000 , or 100,000 dead mens nothing . Abortion means nothing . Once you start showing pictures of fetuses that look like babies , or showing pictures of little kids who were blown apart during a war ( especially a war that is supposed to be saving them ) , it makes it personal . It drives it home . You are taking an abstract concept like `` dead children `` and giving it substance . I think there are protest similar to what you witnessed in many areas . They are effective . The old days of people milling about in front of an abortion clinic holding signs that say `` abortion kills `` are over becuase it proved to be an ineffective strategy . I support tactics that work in any demonstration . The idea is to get your position out . I am still up in the air on the whole abortion issue , but if the protesters have foudn that the current tactics work better than the old ones , more power to them .""","""That ’ s right ! Let them burn and murder the people who work in abortion clinics . It ’ s all for a good cause , so why not ? After all it has been done before and it worked as the murdered doctor never carried out anymore abortions .""",DISAGREE,"""for people to see the other side of the coin , you have to beat them in the head with it it proved to be an ineffective strategy . I support tactics that work in any demonstration""","""Let them burn and murder the people who work in abortion clinics . all for a good cause , so why not ? it has been done before and it worked""",,
29047,7577,"""I did not mean to go off topic . The point is that sometimes in order for people to see the other side of the coin , you have to beat them in the head with it . That is what the abortion protestors are doing . My example of a simlar strategy came to mind because it was recent . Whether youa re talking war , abortion , whatever , people become complacent . 1000 , or 10,000 , or 100,000 dead mens nothing . Abortion means nothing . Once you start showing pictures of fetuses that look like babies , or showing pictures of little kids who were blown apart during a war ( especially a war that is supposed to be saving them ) , it makes it personal . It drives it home . You are taking an abstract concept like `` dead children `` and giving it substance . I think there are protest similar to what you witnessed in many areas . They are effective . The old days of people milling about in front of an abortion clinic holding signs that say `` abortion kills `` are over becuase it proved to be an ineffective strategy . I support tactics that work in any demonstration . The idea is to get your position out . I am still up in the air on the whole abortion issue , but if the protesters have foudn that the current tactics work better than the old ones , more power to them .""","""That ’ s right ! Let them burn and murder the people who work in abortion clinics . It ’ s all for a good cause , so why not ? After all it has been done before and it worked as the murdered doctor never carried out anymore abortions .""",DISAGREE,"""dead children""","""murdered doctor""",,
29053,7578,"""How about the flood ? It was not `` destroyed long ago `` .""","""Yes it was . The Noachian flood did not occur . Ignoring the obvious impossibilities of the ship/animals/etc , we see that the results a global flood would have caused do not exist .""",DISAGREE,"""It was not `` destroyed long ago `` .""","""Yes it was Noachian flood did not occur . the results a global flood would have caused do not exist .""",,
29054,7578,"""How about the flood ? It was not `` destroyed long ago `` .""","""Yes it was . The Noachian flood did not occur . Ignoring the obvious impossibilities of the ship/animals/etc , we see that the results a global flood would have caused do not exist .""",DISAGREE,"""How about the flood ? It was not `` destroyed long ago `` .""","""Yes it was""",,
29064,7580,"""... merely a projection of the childish wish for the protection of an all-powerful father .""","""Which would make that belief :""",DISAGREE,"""merely a projection of the childish wish for the protection of an all-powerful father .""","""Which would make that belief :""",,
29062,7580,"""... merely a projection of the childish wish for the protection of an all-powerful father .""","""Which would make that belief :""",DISAGREE,"""protection""","""belief :""",,
29075,7589,"""`` I 'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on . We 're going to have to take one step at a time , and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest . Of course , it 's true that politicians will then go home and say , 'This is a great law . The problem is solved . ' And it 's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time . So then we 'll have to strengthen that law , and then again to strengthen that law , and maybe again and again . Right now , though , we 'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice . Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time . My estimate is from seven to ten years . The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country . The second problem is to get them all registered . And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition — except for the military , policemen , licensed security guards , licensed sporting clubs , and licensed gun collectors — totally illegal. `` -Pete Shields , Chairman and founder , Handgun Control Inc. , `` A Reporter At Large : Handguns , `` The New Yorker , July 26 , 1976 , 57-58""","""But there is no slippery slope . Lets see . The Brady Bill was passed November 30 , 1993 . Then just 3 months later S.1878 or Brady Bill 2 was introduced in the Senate , February 28 , 1994. and wanted all of this just 3 months later ! Some of the provisions of Brady 2""",DISAGREE,"""convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on . We 're going to have to take one step at a time ,""","""But there is no slippery slope . Lets see . The Brady Bill was passed November 30 , 1993 .""",,
29074,7589,"""`` I 'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on . We 're going to have to take one step at a time , and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest . Of course , it 's true that politicians will then go home and say , 'This is a great law . The problem is solved . ' And it 's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time . So then we 'll have to strengthen that law , and then again to strengthen that law , and maybe again and again . Right now , though , we 'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice . Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time . My estimate is from seven to ten years . The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country . The second problem is to get them all registered . And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition — except for the military , policemen , licensed security guards , licensed sporting clubs , and licensed gun collectors — totally illegal. `` -Pete Shields , Chairman and founder , Handgun Control Inc. , `` A Reporter At Large : Handguns , `` The New Yorker , July 26 , 1976 , 57-58""","""But there is no slippery slope . Lets see . The Brady Bill was passed November 30 , 1993 . Then just 3 months later S.1878 or Brady Bill 2 was introduced in the Senate , February 28 , 1994. and wanted all of this just 3 months later ! Some of the provisions of Brady 2""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on . We 're going to have to take one step at a time , and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest . Of course , it 's true that politicians will then go home and say , 'This is a great law . The problem is solved . ' And it 's also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time .""","""But there is no slippery slope . Lets see . The Brady Bill was passed November 30 , 1993 . Then just 3 months later S.1878 or Brady Bill 2 was introduced in the Senate , February 28 , 1994. and wanted all of this just 3 months later ! Some of the provisions of Brady 2""",,
29090,7592,"""Nopers , VT ! We all crawled out of the muck .""","""where did the muck come from ?""",DISAGREE,"""Nopers , VT ! We all crawled out of the muck .""","""where did the muck come from ?""",,
29102,7594,"""Please go here . There are some good points on the Archaeopteryx , including a fossil find that shows a more modern bird-like fossil that may predate the Archaeopteryx .""","""Here 's a picture of it http : //www.toyen.uio.no/palmus/galle ... re/161_632.jpg The specimens have been dated between 120 & amp ; 140 my . If at the upper end of that range that puts it very close to the age of Archaeopteryx ( 140 to 170 my ) . But contrary to what creationists like to claim , this is n't a problem . There is no claim that Archaeopteryx is ancestral to Confuciusornis . If you look at birds now you will see lots of different species . They have a common ancestor but are not descended from one another . Archaeopteryx is just the oldest example of a bird that we have , and considering the distance between the sites where the fossils were found , and possibly several million years in time , I would expect them to be different .""",DISAGREE,"""There are some good points on the Archaeopteryx , including a fossil find that shows a more modern bird-like fossil that may predate the Archaeopteryx .""","""There is no claim that Archaeopteryx is ancestral to Confuciusornis . If you look at birds now you will see lots of different species . They have a common ancestor but are not descended from one another .""",,
29105,7595,"""- Democrats are tokenizing gay rights groups . If the recent election and stance by John Kerry does not alarm gay rights activists , something is terribly wrong . In the end , there was very , very little difference in the stance between the two candidates regarding gay rights . The marriage amendment was the only difference , but to be fair , gay activists should say that Kerry saw them no more 'human ' than Bush . Unfortunately for gay people , they have been taken and cheated by the Democratic party . The most they have gotten is token words and occassional promises that never really take place . But in the debates , Kerry was just as unappoving of gay marriage as Bush was . So why would gay rights activists overwhelmingly support Kerry and the Democratic party ? Ca n't they see they have been sold a rotten bill of goods ? Democrats have been no more helpful in the last 20 years -- Clinton himself would not veto DOMA , signing it instead . It is difficult to take gay rights groups seriously when they throw their enthusiastic support at only Democrat canididates who are practically no different than Republican ones on the issue . Frankly , it smacks of partisanship and backroom politics . Gay people are the losers . Does that mean that gay people would be better off supporting Republicans ? Not necessarily . But at least a little less blind political allegiance would help . At this point , it would seem that even if the Republican party ran a gay candidate who supported gay marriage enthusiastically , gay rights groups would still endorse the Democrat . Yes , it 's THAT bad .""","""I think the Democrats are generally seen as the lesser of two evils . Your point about gay rights groups perhaps endorsing a Democrat out of blind party loyalty over a pro- gay marriage Republican is an interesting point . Perhaps the answer is for those in all parties who are gay , to be more aggressive in promoting their equality . A lot of work needs to be done in both the Democratic and Republican parties .""",AGREE,"""Democrats are tokenizing gay rights groups . If the recent election and stance by John Kerry does not alarm gay rights activists , something is terribly wrong . In the end , there was very , very little difference in the stance between the two candidates regarding gay rights . The marriage amendment was the only difference , but to be fair , gay activists should say that Kerry saw them no more 'human ' than Bush .""","""I think the Democrats are generally seen as the lesser of two evils . Your point about gay rights groups perhaps endorsing a Democrat out of blind party loyalty over a pro- gay marriage Republican is an interesting""",,
29138,7612,"""# 1 - How are we now able to observe evolution , when the evolution of the world supposely took billions of years ?""","""A ) we can use experiments to show evoution . We have observed it . For example , there is the lactose test , where some bacterial had the gene to digest lactose removed . After letting it grow into the billions , and then fed ONLY lactose , it can be shown that some individuals had a gene that could digest lactose , and survive . There is also anti-bodic resistant bacteria that evolved due to the use of antibodics .. evolution at work .""",DISAGREE,"""How are we now able to observe evolution ,""","""we can use experiments to show evoution .""",,
29147,7615,"""very true . logic exists whether people are there to grasps its concepts or not . where we disagree is at your assumption that god created logic . how can this be ? logic is not contingent on any intelligent entity , whether it be man or god , to exist . the logic of increasing a quantity by adding to it would remain whether god existed or not . you have yet to tie the existence of logic to god as its cause""","""The atheist needs to explain how something can exist that ’ s not material , can not be observed , and is absolute .""",DISAGREE,"""logic is not contingent on any intelligent entity""","""to not .""",,
29154,7617,"""Actually , they are not very effective at all . Undoubtedly because a condom retains the bulk of the discharge of semen , the rate is cut down . To become infected with any disease , two things are relevant in terms of the offending , invasive agent . One is the presence of some of those viruses , or germs , itself . The other is the quantity of that agent entering the body . If there are only a few bugs , the average human will kill them off . If there ’ s a very heavy dose , the chance for an infection succeeding is greater . Therefore , by cutting down on the volume of semen , a condom certainly reduces the chance for AIDS . But AIDS viruses do get through the condom .""","""Why is the rate of AIDS so high in Africa then , where donoms are rare , but so low in the Western world , where condoms are the norm . -Wez""",DISAGREE,"""If there are only a few bugs , the average human will kill them off . If there ’ s a very heavy dose , the chance for an infection succeeding is greater . Therefore , by cutting down on the volume of semen , a condom certainly reduces the chance for AIDS . But AIDS viruses do get through the condom .""","""Why is the rate of AIDS so high in Africa then , where donoms are rare , but so low in the Western world , where condoms are the norm""",,
29159,7619,"""Three people have been arrested in connection with last months deadly double homicide in Arivaca that left a nine-year-old and her father dead . One of the people arrested for the homicide is the National Executive Director of the Minuteman American Defense group ( M.A.D . ) , a group known for patrolling the border , and is dedicated to `` Defending America 's Borders `` according to their website - http : //minutemenamericandefense.org/ Jason Eugene Bush , 38 , Shawna Forde , 42 and Albert Robert Gaxiola , 43 , were all taken into custody and charged in connection with the murders of 29-year-old Raul Flores and 8-year-old Brisenia Flores . Both were killed during an alleged home invasion . According to authorities , Bush , Forde , and Gaxiola broke into the home of the Flores family just after midnight on May 30th . At the time , the mother , father and daughter were home . The invaders reportedly shot the three members of the Flores family , killing the father , Raul , and the daughter , Brisenia . The invaders then left the scene .""","""The Raw Story Minuteman leader arrested for double homicide Interesting to note that :""",AGREE,"""One of the people arrested for the homicide is the National Executive Director of the Minuteman American""","""Minuteman leader arrested for double homicide Interesting to note that""",,
29160,7619,"""Three people have been arrested in connection with last months deadly double homicide in Arivaca that left a nine-year-old and her father dead . One of the people arrested for the homicide is the National Executive Director of the Minuteman American Defense group ( M.A.D . ) , a group known for patrolling the border , and is dedicated to `` Defending America 's Borders `` according to their website - http : //minutemenamericandefense.org/ Jason Eugene Bush , 38 , Shawna Forde , 42 and Albert Robert Gaxiola , 43 , were all taken into custody and charged in connection with the murders of 29-year-old Raul Flores and 8-year-old Brisenia Flores . Both were killed during an alleged home invasion . According to authorities , Bush , Forde , and Gaxiola broke into the home of the Flores family just after midnight on May 30th . At the time , the mother , father and daughter were home . The invaders reportedly shot the three members of the Flores family , killing the father , Raul , and the daughter , Brisenia . The invaders then left the scene .""","""The Raw Story Minuteman leader arrested for double homicide Interesting to note that :""",AGREE,"""One of the people arrested for the homicide is the National Executive Director of the Minuteman American Defense group ( M.A.D . ) , a group known for patrolling the border ,""","""The Raw Story Minuteman leader arrested for double homicide Interesting to note that :""",,
29168,7621,"""Sigma , In our previous dialogues you put forth a litany of negative health consequences of being pregnant . Would you agree that abstinence would be the best protection a woman has against these negative health risks ? Would you support abstinence to protect women 's health ?""","""To answer your question , yes I would support abstinence to protect anyone 's health , not just women 's . Risks of STIs including AIDS and unwanted pregnancy are obvious examples that can be largely avoided by not having sex . Cervical cancer is triggered by a virus that a woman is exposed to through sex . Even if she does not contract any STD , there is a high correlation between rates of cervical cancer , HPV ( human papolloma virus ) , and having intercource . Cervical cancer almost never occurs in virgins , and there is a high rate of occurrence in women who have had multiple sex partners . Abstinent women also have lower rates of urinary tract infections and vaginitis . Those can be caused by skin being dragged into the vagina inadvertently during intercourse , and the penis has bacteria on it just like all skin . Teenage girls also would obviously have higher levels of academic achievement if they are abstinent . Less depression and emotional turmoil due to relationship problems if they are abstinent , as well as less domestic or partner abuse . However , I do n't believe that advocating abstinence only is a smart way of approaching a problem . Obviously very few people are abstinent all of their lives ; intercourse is a normal part of a healthy lifestyle . Preaching abstinence-until-marriage is also an unreachable goal and means nothing to same-sex couples . Furthermore , there is little scientific evidence that shows that abstinence only education works . Research demonstrates that comprehensive sex education , including abstinence and contraception , is the most effective , according to well-respected groups including the American Medical Association , the American Academy of Pediatrics , the Society for Adolescent Medicine , the Institute of Medicine , the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists , the American Nurses Association and the American Public Health Association . All of these groups reject abstinence only programs in favor of comprehensive sex education . The Institute of Medicine recommends `` Congress , as well as other federal , state and local policymakers , eliminate the requirements that public funds be used for abstinence-only education and that states and local school districts implement and continue to support age-appropriate comprehensive sex education. `` ( No Time to Lose : Getting More from HIV Prevention , Institute of Medicine )""",AGREE,"""a woman has against these negative health risks""","""the American Public Health Association . All of these groups reject abstinence""",,
29177,7623,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Lurch , What do you mean there is no `` there is no evidence for a god `` ? And there is nothing surprising about my being able to think for myself and reject the religion of evolution . Both Evolution and Creation must be taken by faith .""","""Absolutely right . I 'd like to put another ticker mark on the Creationists ' side . What about the woodpecker argument ? Has anyone mentioned that yet ?""",AGREE,"""Both Evolution and Creation must be taken by faith .""","""Absolutely right .""",,
29182,7624,"""What William of Ockham actually said was that , indescribing a phenomenon , do not use unnecessary entities .""","""Actually , `` entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity `` was his statement . '' Most likely `` applies . '' Do not `` is inaccurate .""",DISAGREE,"""What William of Ockham actually said was that ,""","""Do not `` is inaccurate .""",,
29201,7628,"""There are lots of facts that support it . The anthropic principle , the sudden appearance of fossils with no evolutionary past , symbiotic relationships between plants and insects . The fact that dogs have dogs and cats have cats . You interpretation of the evidence is just that your interpretation .""","""Besides , evolution has relatively few holes . A fair percent of it has actually been proven in the natural and artifical worlds .""",AGREE,"""There are lots of facts that support it . You interpretation of the evidence is just that your interpretation .""","""evolution has relatively few holes .""",,
29215,7631,"""Collecting on the 150 year-old debt for assisting their rebellion against their lords and masters ....""","""I 'll ask the question that needs to be asked . If France qualifies as a `` developed nation `` as we 've been lead to believe , why did the homeowner have to resort to getting close enough that he could strangle the burglar ? Surely if you 're a developed nation , you 're not going to force your own people to put themselves in harms way while they 're in the process of saving themselves , right ?""",DISAGREE,"""Collecting on the 150 year-old debt for assisting their rebellion against their lords and masters ....""","""If France qualifies as a `` developed nation `` as we 've been lead to believe , why did the homeowner have to resort to getting close enough that he could strangle the burglar ?""",,
29222,7632,"""Instead of debating the facts , evolutionists will often resort to attacking the intelligence ( or lack of it ) in their opponent .""","""No need .""",DISAGREE,"""evolutionists will often resort to attacking the intelligence in their opponent""","""No need""",,
29230,7634,"""People as a whole are largely biased , uninformed , and care only about the wellbeing of the majority , persecuting the minority any chance they get . Simply put , the will of the people is too often to benefit the majority and persecute the minority , and this can be seen everywhere throughout history . The will of the people often deserves to be not only ignored but put in a little can and crushed , for the voice of the people is not the voice of the people at all ; it is the voice of the majority .""","""Yours is the voice of a bitter gay person talking , who has only seen one side of things ( probably hardship ) . But there are many good examples of the population being informed and doing things right . In fact I think typcially , the populace DOES take care of people -- I think Americans are generally pretty humanitarian people . That 's my opinion . I think the reason there has been resistance to redefine marriage is that people really know that this is not a civil rights issue , despite attempts by the gay lobby to paint it that way . I will say this though : gay people need to be treated as well as anyone else in this country and acts of violence should not be permitted . We should all be able to get along . But that does n't mean we should have to redefine marriage to do it . As I said , states have the ability to amend their constitution to protect the institution of marriage from redefinition , and 13 states have already done so -- many others are working on it . You should probably get used to it . Marriage is just too important to too many people to be redefined so easily .""",DISAGREE,"""care only about the wellbeing of the majority""","""the populace DOES take care of people -- I think Americans are generally pretty humanitarian people""",,
29247,7637,"""guns are used for hunting . guns are used for collecting . Guns are used in the olympics . Guns are used in target practice . Guns are used to shoot clay""","""And with the possible exception of collecting , Australian licensing laws allow all of the above . I should know I have lived and shot over there . The idea of such laws is to remove weapons from those who have no good reason to own such things , and put extra safety restrictions on those who do . For the record , I do not actually agree with such stringent measures myself . But I do n't think your argument really holds water . And to make such associations with tyranny is exagerated to say the least .""",DISAGREE,"""guns are used for hunting . guns are used for collecting . Guns are used in the olympics . Guns are used in target practice . Guns are used to shoot clay""","""I do n't think your argument really holds water""",,
29255,7639,"""So far the only proof of God 's existence by lucaspa is : `` trust me , I 'experienced ' God therefore God exists `` There is incrdible suffering and pain in this world , and I can not conceive a God who is the embodyment of goodnes , compassion , love etc , to turn a blind eye to all the suffering going on on Earth . All this nonsense about 'free will ' and God testing us , is just nonsensical attempts to reconcile the imaginary existence of God with the sad realities of our existence""","""Well , as the Christain Zealots say , `` Eve ate the apple `` .""",AGREE,"""So far the only proof of God 's existence by lucaspa is : `` trust me , I 'experienced ' God therefore God exists `` There is incrdible suffering and pain in this world , and I can not conceive a God who is the embodyment of goodnes , compassion , love etc ,""","""the ``""",,
29279,7643,"""If you take any of these away then the whole philosophy collapses . But see , this would n't be the case if the theory was actually a fact -- as Mayr claims .""","""But can you actually take one away ? Can you provide stronger evidence than the confirming evidence that has already been gathered ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you take any of these away then the whole philosophy collapses . But see , this would n't be the case if the theory was actually a fact -- as Mayr claims .""","""But can you actually take one away ?""",,
29283,7643,"""If you take any of these away then the whole philosophy collapses . But see , this would n't be the case if the theory was actually a fact -- as Mayr claims .""","""But can you actually take one away ? Can you provide stronger evidence than the confirming evidence that has already been gathered ?""",DISAGREE,"""you take any of these away would n't be the case if the theory was actually a fact""","""can you actually take one away ? Can you provide stronger evidence""",,
29288,7644,"""So we have , in order of humility : Agnosticism : Do n't know , ca n't know . But I have my opinion . Note : Many religious people and humanists alike fit into this category . Theism : Probably ca n't know , but does n't realize it . My `` heart/soul/essence/whatever `` tells me it is truth . Note : Often impossible to reason with . No scientifically measurable way to prove position . Atheism : Ca n't know , but thinks and says otherwise . Note : Usually angry . No scientifically measurable way to prove position .""","""You have done a marvelous job knocking down strawmen of your own construction . Having offered a naive and superficial caricature of atheism , agnosticism , and theism , you then imagine a self-serving hierarchy that is , in a word , worthless - all in a silly effort to show yourself most humble . Ironic .""",DISAGREE,"""we have , in order of humility : Agnosticism : Do n't know , ca n't know . But I have my opinion . Note : Many religious people and humanists alike fit into this category . Theism : Probably ca n't know , but does n't realize it""","""You have done a marvelous job knocking down strawmen of your own construction . Having offered a naive and superficial caricature of atheism , agnosticism , and theism , you then imagine a self-serving hierarchy that is , in a word , worthless - all in a silly effort to show yourself most humble . Ironic .""",,
29293,7645,"""Please do n't strain our credulity with this mythic nonsense .""","""Mythic nonsense ? It 's historical fact . Or are you one of those `` The Holocaust never took place `` people ?""",DISAGREE,"""Please do n't strain our credulity with this mythic nonsense .""","""Mythic nonsense ? It 's historical fact .""",,
29311,7650,"""For the life of a creature is in the blood , and I have given it to you to jmake atonement for yourselves at the alter ; it is the blood that makes atonement for one 's life .""","""Far from showing any modern knowledge of blood circulation , this shows : 1 ) if you take the blood out of an animal it will die . A simple fact all civilizations of the time would have known . 2 ) God like for his followers kill living things . He is the God of blood .""",DISAGREE,"""the life of a creature is in the blood , and I have given it to you to jmake atonement for yourselves at the alter""","""Far from showing any modern knowledge of blood circulation , this shows""",,
29326,7660,"""Because it 's unfair that us little people can also own guns .""","""I pretend I 'm rich and famous that way being surrounded by firepower do n't bother me as much and I feel better about it .""",DISAGREE,"""it 's unfair that us little people can also own guns .""","""I pretend I 'm rich and famous that way being surrounded by firepower do n't bother me as much and I feel better about it .""",,
29347,7663,"""I condemn the Wrong at every opportunity . Whackjob Nutso Drivel is a fraudulent use of the term `` news `` . The WOT is and was a hoax , but Koolade drinkers enjoy squandering the lives of others on their adventures abroad .""","""Really ? Then why have n't you condemned organizations such as the Brady Campaign ? They continually put out the lie that the .50 BMG is capable of bringing down commercial planes as if the entire process was mere child 's play , but there 's absolutely not a shred of evidence to support this claim .""",DISAGREE,"""I condemn the Wrong at every opportunity .""","""Then why have n't you condemned organizations such as the Brady Campaign ?""",,
29375,7676,"""What a crock . I find myself loving when you go on and on so that I can continue to wail on you with the Truth Stick of No Mercy .""","""Talk about a crock ! How can you wail on anyone with your imaginary truth stick of no mercy when you would n't know the truth if you tripped over it ? And you going ballistic like this just proves the exact point I made in that you 'll allow my free speech until I say something you disagree with and then you attack me to shut me up . Which is exactly what I said above that precipitated your childish tirade . See ?""",DISAGREE,"""What a crock .""","""Talk about a crock !""",,
29388,7679,"""Talkin ' out your XXX again I see . What happens if I do not vote ? Initially the Australian Electoral Commission will write to all apparent non-voters requesting that they either provide a reason for their failure to vote or pay a $ 20 penalty . If , within 21 days , the apparent non-voter fails to reply , can not provide a valid and sufficient reason or declines to pay the penalty , then prosecution proceedings may be instigated . If the matter is dealt with in court and the person is found guilty , he or she may be fined up to $ 50 plus court costs . Voting Australia""","""So you get fined for not voting , i said you get fined for not voting yet i am talking out the back of my arse . How did you figure that ? I provided accurate information and get abused by a gun hater , i can live with that as gun haters are well known for hating facts NATO I could not agree with you more !""",DISAGREE,"""the apparent non-voter fails to reply , can not provide a valid and sufficient reason""","""you get fined for not voting""",,
29403,7689,"""For this to be a consistent pro-choice argument , and assuming this to be a rightful interpretation and application of the 14th amendment there would be necessary conclusions . Those who hold this as an absolute belief must extend the right of a woman ’ s right to choose the allocation of her bodily resources beyond pregnancy and into every instance of life . Therefore the pro-choice line of reasoning that says that a woman has the right to choose to abort because she does not wish do share her bodily resources can be extended to conclude also that a newborn infant can be aborted if a woman decides not to donate her bodily resource of nutrition and she has no access to formula ( no other factors involved ) .""","""That is an erroneous line of reasoning because it fails to take into account the myriad of other options open to a women after birth to remove the newborn from her care without any ill effects ( physically anyway ) . Killing in the instance of a newborn is not justified because of those other options open to her . By contrast , a pregnant woman has exactly one option open to her to remove the fetus from her care and that is abortion . I would contend that the same line of reasoning that allows for adoption can be used here , that no one must donate their resources to a dependant . Your reasoning that a woman , using the same line of reasoning that pro-choice people employ , can withhold her bodily resources `` until the newborn dies `` as if that is equal to withholding bodily resources in pregnancy is faulty .""",DISAGREE,"""For this to be a consistent pro-choice argument , and assuming this to be a rightful interpretation and application of the 14th amendment belief must extend the right of a woman ’ s right to choose the allocation of her bodily resources beyond pregnancy and into every instance of Therefore the pro-choice line of reasoning that says that a woman has the right to choose to abort because she does not wish do share her bodily resources can be extended to conclude also that a newborn infant can be aborted if a woman decides""","""That is an erroneous line of reasoning because it fails to take into account the myriad of other options open to a women ``""",,
29408,7690,"""I don ’ t consider the finger to be alive .""","""Take somes cells from one of you fingers and put it under a microscope .""",DISAGREE,"""I don ’ t consider the finger to be alive .""","""Take somes cells from one of you fingers and put it under a microscope .""",,
29422,7692,"""Wrong . 1 ) Science has disproven the young-earth Creationists ' God . 2 ) Science is starting to shed light on people 's spiritual beliefs .""","""I will agree science has disproven the literal reading of a number of different scriptures , such as the literal reading of Genesis ( which was never meant to be literal to begin with , but that is a different matter ) . It also might explain why spiritiual beliefs exist for people . However , when it comes to this vaguly defined entity that alledgely created the universe , science has nothing to say about the existance of this alledged supernatural being .""",DISAGREE,"""Science is starting to shed light on people 's spiritual beliefs""","""It also might explain why spiritiual beliefs exist for people . However , when it comes to this vaguly defined entity that alledgely created the universe , science has nothing to say about the existance of this alledged supernatural""",,
29424,7692,"""Wrong . 1 ) Science has disproven the young-earth Creationists ' God . 2 ) Science is starting to shed light on people 's spiritual beliefs .""","""I will agree science has disproven the literal reading of a number of different scriptures , such as the literal reading of Genesis ( which was never meant to be literal to begin with , but that is a different matter ) . It also might explain why spiritiual beliefs exist for people . However , when it comes to this vaguly defined entity that alledgely created the universe , science has nothing to say about the existance of this alledged supernatural being .""",DISAGREE,"""Science has disproven Science is starting to shed light""","""science has nothing to say about the existance of this""",,
29443,7696,"""I look at it and it makes perfect sense to me and if you really think about it does not need to be substantiated because all they are is just simple observations , ask anyone here they will tell you I am right . Have you have become so lost in your bible fantasy world that you can & # 8217 ; t even see the simple meaning of my words and understand there wisdom ? As for your post ( that you are so in love with ) to put it bluntly it sucks , so I won & # 8217 ; t speak to it . The thinking displayed there is childish at best . I will no longer speak to you because obviously you are emotionally over invested and your starting to sound like a nut .""","""Here is the link to all of your posts on this thread . 4Forums.com Political Debates and Polls - Search Results Go on and show everyone here which of us is posting irrational drivel . Show me your simple observations of wisdom which I ca n't comprehend . You ca n't because there are no quotes or simple observations , nor is there any wisdom since you 've never had an original thought to your credit and would n't know what to do with one if you did . So go on with your irrational tirade if you like , but stop lying about contributing some actual on topic content to this debate when you have contributed nothing substantial or real at all . Got it ? ! ? !""",DISAGREE,"""I look at it and it makes perfect sense to me and if you really think about it does not need to be substantiated because all they are is just simple observations , ask anyone here they will tell you I am right .""","""Go on and show everyone here which of us is posting irrational drivel .""",,
29449,7697,"""Funny , my religion is n't 'secularism ' and we deny the absolute sanctity of life .""","""secularism is a religion based upon faith and I was speaking to simone . what is your religion ?""",DISAGREE,"""my religion .""","""what is your religion""",,
29460,7698,"""At least now we see what passes for `` moderation `` on this board . ( That 's right , folks : you ca n't put JPS on your ignore lists , 'cuz he 's a `` moderator. `` You know , like Glen Beck on `` fair and balanced `` Fox News . )""","""Meh . Foundit66 is moderator on a different site . Nobody cares . It 's a rare case that a board could ever find a truly centrist person to moderate . If you have a problem with JP as a mod on this forum , no one 's making you participate . I do n't post on the forum Foundit mods , myself . If it 's really that big a deal to you that JP mods a forum catagory on this site , then put your money where your mouth is and do n't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you , on the way out .""",DISAGREE,"""we see what passes for `` moderation ``""","""Nobody cares""",,
29473,7701,"""You really should be careful about posting nonsense like this . If your article has any validity , it would be grounds for disarming the police , since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people , and more likely to kill innocent bystanders .""","""Police are probably much more aggressive than the average citizen , but most of the time their aggression is channeled against the bad guys . And do n't you find it significant that a gun , a symbol and tool of violence , can raise levels of testosterone ? What kind of effect does testosterone have on behavior ? Dogs become more friendly when testosterone is reduced in their bodies through neutering : `` One of the most important behavioral advantages of castration is that as adults , these dogs will tend to be less aggressive both toward other male dogs and also people . The androgen ( male ) hormones , of which testosterone is the most important , are responsible for the development of many behavioral patterns . When young puppies are sexually mounting their 7 and 8-week old litter mates this is because of androgen surges in their bodies . The same is true with aggressive behavior. `` Benefits of Neutering ( Castrating ) Male Dogs & amp ; Puppies""",DISAGREE,"""be careful about posting nonsense like this grounds for disarming the police , since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people""","""most of the time their aggression is channeled against the bad guys gun , a symbol and tool of violence , can raise levels of testosterone""",,
29479,7702,"""No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue .""","""Unfortunately for this argument , nature denies this a lot of the time . Most conceptions spontaneously abort .""",DISAGREE,"""after a human being is conceived develop into the very same being as those debating this issue""","""nature denies this Most conceptions spontaneously abort""",,
29503,7708,"""this is terrible . Kansas should have kept how it was instead of teaching the beleif of evolution like it was a fact when it is jst a theory and a beleif system of atheirsts""","""As a Christian who accepts evolution as fact , I think it is great that Kansas has gone back to teaching actual science instead of religious delusions of the IDers . And the claim of evolution being `` just a theory `` shows how much you know about science . Gravity is just a theory , do you accept that ? There is Nuclear theory , do you claim the atomic bombs never went off in Japan ?""",DISAGREE,"""Kansas should have kept how it was instead of teaching the beleif of evolution like it was a fact when it is jst a theory and a beleif system of atheirsts""","""As a Christian who accepts evolution as fact , I think it is great that Kansas has gone back to teaching actual science instead of religious delusions of the IDers .""",,
29505,7708,"""this is terrible . Kansas should have kept how it was instead of teaching the beleif of evolution like it was a fact when it is jst a theory and a beleif system of atheirsts""","""As a Christian who accepts evolution as fact , I think it is great that Kansas has gone back to teaching actual science instead of religious delusions of the IDers . And the claim of evolution being `` just a theory `` shows how much you know about science . Gravity is just a theory , do you accept that ? There is Nuclear theory , do you claim the atomic bombs never went off in Japan ?""",DISAGREE,"""teaching the beleif of evolution jst a theory and a beleif system of atheirsts""","""Christian who accepts evolution actual science instead of religious delusions""",,
29519,7710,"""Later in a statement Ridgway said that murdering young women was his `` career `` .""","""The man seemed have a thing about prostitutes . I believe he felt it was his God-given destiny to punish them . Cybererratus is a very interesting persona . He manifests a number of very interesting character traits . I do n't believe that he likes women very much . In fact , I am rather concerned about how Cybererratus feels about women . Andrea Yates was certifiably insane and her killing of her children had nothing to do with post partum depression . And , she is being punished . She is serving life in prison -- as is Mr. Ridgway . I also find the comparisons that Cybererratus makes to be morally troubling .""",AGREE,"""Ridgway murdering young women""","""a thing about Cybererratus is a very interesting persona .""",,
29534,7711,"""They do not differ in any significant way .""","""Yes they do . Modern Coelocanth : Modern Coelocanth""",DISAGREE,"""do not differ""","""Yes they do""",,
29543,7712,"""A . Guns save more lives than they take ; prevent more injuries than they inflict * Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense . Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year , firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2 * Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year , the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers . Less than 8 % of the time , a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.3 * As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4 * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense . According to the Clinton Justice Department , there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year . The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of `` Guns in America `` -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5 * Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police . Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year ( 1,527 to 606 ) .6 And readers of Newsweek learned that `` only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal . The 'error rate ' for the police , however , was 11 percent , more than five times as high . '' 7 * Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense . Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.8 Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as `` Saturday Night Specials. `` B . Concealed carry laws help reduce crime * Nationwide : one-half million self-defense uses . Every year , as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home.9 * Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country . A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms . The results of the study showed : * States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5 % , rapes by 5 % , aggravated assaults by 7 % and robbery by 3 % ; 10 and * If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992 , then approximately 1,570 murders , 4,177 rapes , 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.11 * Vermont : one of the safest five states in the country . In Vermont , citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission ... without paying a fee ... or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period . And yet for ten years in a row , Vermont has remained one of the top-five , safest states in the union -- having three times received the `` Safest State Award . '' 12 * Florida : concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state . In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida 's concealed carry law in 1987 , over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state.13 FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida , which in 1987 was much higher than the national average , fell 52 % during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average . 14 * Do firearms carry laws result in chaos ? No . Consider the case of Florida . A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder . 1 . During the first fifteen years that the Florida law was in effect , alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 229 to 155 margin . 2 . And even the 155 `` crimes `` committed by concealed carry permit holders are somewhat misleading as most of these infractions resulted from Floridians who accidentally carried their firearms into restricted areas , such as an airport.15 C. Criminals avoid armed citizens * Kennesaw , GA . In 1982 , this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house . The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89 % in Kennesaw , compared to the modest 10.4 % drop in Georgia as a whole.16 * Ten years later ( 1991 ) , the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72 % lower than it had been in 1981 , before the law was passed.17 * Nationwide . Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms . Consider the following rates showing how often a homeowner is present when a burglar strikes : * Homeowner occupancy rate in the gun control countries of Great Britain , Canada and Netherlands : 45 % ( average of the three countries ) ; and , * Homeowner occupancy rate in the United States : 12.7 % .18 Rapes averted when women carry or use firearms for protection * Orlando , FL . In 1966-67 , the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns . The result : Orlando 's rape rate dropped 88 % in 1967 , whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation.19 * Nationwide . In 1979 , the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes , 32 % were actually committed . But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife , only 3 % of the attempted rapes were actually successful.20 Justice Department study : * 3/5 of felons polled agreed that `` a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun . '' 21 * 74 % of felons polled agreed that `` one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime . '' 22 * 57 % of felons polled agreed that `` criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police . '' 23 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz , `` Armed Resistance to Crime : The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun , `` 86 The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology , Northwestern University School of Law , 1 ( Fall 1995 ) :164 . Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University in Tallahassee . He has researched extensively and published several essays on the gun control issue . His book , Point Blank : Guns and Violence in America , has become a widely cited source in the gun control debate . In fact , this book earned Dr. Kleck the prestigious American Society of Criminology Michael J. Hindelang award for 1993 . This award is given for the book published in the past two to three years that makes the most outstanding contribution to criminology . Even those who do n't like the conclusions Dr. Kleck reaches , can not argue with his impeccable research and methodology . In `` A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed , `` Marvin E. Wolfgang writes that , `` What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz . The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years , namely , the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator .... I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research . Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime ? It is hard to believe . Yet , it is hard to challenge the data collected . We do not have contrary evidence. `` Wolfgang , `` A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed , `` The Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology , at 188 . Wolfgang says there is no `` contrary evidence. `` Indeed , there are more than a dozen national polls -- one of which was conducted by The Los Angeles Times -- that have found figures comparable to the Kleck-Gertz study . Even the Clinton Justice Department ( through the National Institute of Justice ) found there were as many as 1.5 million defensive users of firearms every year . See National Institute of Justice , `` Guns in America : National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms , `` Research in Brief ( May 1997 ) . As for Dr. Kleck , readers of his materials may be interested to know that he is a member of the ACLU , Amnesty International USA , and Common Cause . He is not and has never been a member of or contributor to any advocacy group on either side of the gun control debate . 2 According to the National Safety Council , the total number of gun deaths ( by accidents , suicides and homicides ) account for less than 30,000 deaths per year . See Injury Facts , published yearly by the National Safety Council , Itasca , Illinois . 3Kleck and Gertz , `` Armed Resistance to Crime , `` at 173 , 185 . 4Kleck and Gertz , `` Armed Resistance to Crime , `` at 185 . 5 Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig , `` Guns in America : National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms , `` NIJ Research in Brief ( May 1997 ) ; available at http : //www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt on the internet . The finding of 1.5 million yearly self-defense cases did not sit well with the anti-gun bias of the study 's authors , who attempted to explain why there could not possibly be one and a half million cases of self-defense every year . Nevertheless , the 1.5 million figure is consistent with a mountain of independent surveys showing similar figures . The sponsors of these studies -- nearly a dozen -- are quite varied , and include anti-gun organizations , news media organizations , governments and commercial polling firms . See also Kleck and Gertz , supra note 1 , pp . 182-183 . 6Kleck , Point Blank : Guns and Violence in America , ( 1991 ) :111-116 , 148 . 7George F. Will , `` Are We ' a Nation of Cowards ' ? , `` Newsweek ( 15 November 1993 ) :93 . 8Id . at 164 , 185 . 9Dr . Gary Kleck , interview with J. Neil Schulman , `` Q and A : Guns , crime and self-defense , `` The Orange County Register ( 19 September 1993 ) . In the interview with Schulman , Dr. Kleck reports on findings from a national survey which he and Dr. Marc Gertz conducted in Spring , 1993 -- a survey which findings were reported in Kleck and Gertz , `` Armed Resistance to Crime. `` br > 10 One of the authors of the University of Chicago study reported on the study 's findings in John R. Lott , Jr. , `` More Guns , Less Violent Crime , `` The Wall Street Journal ( 28 August 1996 ) . See also John R. Lott , Jr. and David B. Mustard , `` Crime , Deterrence , and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns , `` University of Chicago ( 15 August 1996 ) ; and Lott , More Guns , Less Crime ( 1998 , 2000 ) . 11Lott and Mustard , `` Crime , Deterrence , and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns. `` 12Kathleen O'Leary Morgan , Scott Morgan and Neal Quitno , `` Rankings of States in Most Dangerous/Safest State Awards 1994 to 2003 , `` Morgan Quitno Press ( 2004 ) at http : //www.statestats.com/dang9403.htm . Morgan Quitno Press is an independent private research and publishing company which was founded in 1989 . The company specializes in reference books and monthly reports that compare states and cities in several different subject areas . In the first 10 years in which they published their Safest State Award , Vermont has consistently remained one of the top five safest states . 13Memo by Jim Smith , Secretary of State , Florida Department of State , Division of Licensing , Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report ( October 1 , 2002 ) . 14Florida 's murder rate was 11.4 per 100,000 in 1987 , but only 5.5 in 2002 . Compare Federal Bureau of Investigation , `` Crime in the United States , `` Uniform Crime Reports , ( 1988 ) : 7 , 53 ; and FBI , ( 2003 ) :19 , 79 . 15 John R. Lott , Jr. , `` Right to carry would disprove horror stories , `` Kansas City Star , ( July 12 , 2003 ) . 16Gary Kleck , `` Crime Control Through the Private Use of Armed Force , `` Social Problems 35 ( February 1988 ) :15 . 17Compare Kleck , `` Crime Control , `` at 15 , and Chief Dwaine L. Wilson , City of Kennesaw Police Department , `` Month to Month Statistics : 1991. `` ( Residential burglary rates from 1981-1991 are based on statistics for the months of March - October . ) 18Kleck , Point Blank , at 140 . 19Kleck , `` Crime Control , `` at 13 . 20U.S . Department of Justice , Law Enforcement Assistance Administration , Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities ( 1979 ) , p. 31 . 21U.S. , Department of Justice , National Institute of Justice , `` The Armed Criminal in America : A Survey of Incarcerated Felons , `` Research Report ( July 1985 ) : 27 . 22Id . 23Id .""","""http : //www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm""",DISAGREE,"""Guns save more lives than they take""","""http : //www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm""",,
29548,7713,"""Like evolution , right ? You have your conclusion , so everything else must adhere to it . Just answer the question . How to you account for the statements above ?""","""As a child I took the existence of God as a given . For the life of me I ca n't understand how so many believers discount the life experience of non-believers . I never set out to abandon God . I simply can not believe based on what I have learned in my life . I suspect my story is not unique . I have seen the same `` evidence `` and have heard the same arguments my whole life . I am not `` in league `` with you know who nor am I deluding myself just to prop up science for its own sake . I wanted something to believe in that did not require me to deny that which is before my eyes and that which could be logically explained and/or observed . The fact of evolution is a conclusion based on scientific study and fits the evidence . As far as your scriptural quotes , as I have said , you are reading in science when only prose exists . The fact of creation is a conclusion based on mythology and faith .""",DISAGREE,"""your conclusion everything else must adhere to it .""","""existence of God as a so many believers discount the life experience""",,
29555,7714,"""trebor : Katrine is being particularly unkind to Alabama .""","""OH MY GOD ! ! ! I JUST REALIZED ... I 'M TO BLAME ! My letter to the editor was printed in Sunday 's newspaper and Sunday night the storms started hitting the south ! That can not be coincidence . God has lifted his protecting hand because of my letter . But seriously , 3 people I ran into today told me they saw it . Two were people at work : one just said she read it without saying how she felt about it , the other went a bit farther to say that it really did n't offend her . But if you think about it , just her comment indicates that she felt that the way most people would respond would be negatively . The other person was my dentist , who I just happened to have an appointment with today . He starting talking at great length about Hugh Ross , and Gerald Shroeder , and how his own personal faith in Jesus and science get along just fine . I listened for about 15 minutes , only saying a few things now and then . And when I did , I did n't argue against his position ... I just pointed out that people really have to accept that evolution is true and that the Earth is billions of years old , which he had already said he accepted .""",DISAGREE,"""trebor : Katrine is being particularly unkind to Alabama .""","""God has lifted his protecting hand because of my letter . But seriously , 3 people I ran into today told me they saw it .""",,
29593,7724,"""Link me to one saying weed 'addiction ' is worse than alcoholism please .""","""Did n't I just say it is dumb to compare the two ?""",DISAGREE,"""'addiction '""","""I just say it is dumb to compare""",,
29594,7724,"""Link me to one saying weed 'addiction ' is worse than alcoholism please .""","""Did n't I just say it is dumb to compare the two ?""",DISAGREE,"""weed 'addiction ' is worse than alcoholism please .""","""it is dumb to compare the two""",,
29618,7731,"""Good list and it shows why a lot of people defending guns come off as being nutty extremists .""","""We are n't defending guns . We 're defending the right to be armed .""",DISAGREE,"""defending guns""","""We are n't defending guns""",,
29692,7766,"""3 ) Pat has a condition called `` chimerism `` which is the result of two zygotes becoming fused during development in the womb - somewhat like siamese twins , but the two sets of genetically-distinct cell populations in the body are highly integrated . In Pat 's case each zygote was of a different sex and as a result , Pat is not only made-up of two genetically distinct people , but one of them is male and the other female . Pat 's brain is composed of the female cell line and decides to undergo medical treatment that would remove the male genitalia from the male person in Pat 's body and replace those areas with female physical features . Should the government step-in to prevent this operation in order to protect the male person that is part of , but distict from Pat ?""","""So Pat is an example of gonadal dysgenesis ( or an intersexual . ) Are you sure it is correct to describe this condition as being `` made-up of two genetically distinct people `` ? Is is not the case that Pat is one genetically distinct person made up of two complete chromosome sets ?""",DISAGREE,"""Should the government step-in to prevent this operation in order to protect the male person that is part of , but distict from Pat ?""","""Are you sure it is correct to describe this condition as being `` made-up of two genetically distinct people `` ?""",,
29703,7767,"""It implies that `` evolution `` ( the branch that declares that the book of Genesis is false )""","""You mean the branch that you and other creationists created as a `` straw man `` when you realised that the pseudo-scientific criticism of evolution was just making you look like XXXXXX ?""",DISAGREE,"""It implies that `` evolution `` ( the branch that declares that the book of Genesis is false )""","""You mean the branch that you and other creationists created as a `` straw man `` when you realised that the pseudo-scientific criticism of evolution was just making you look like XXXXXX ?""",,
29723,7769,"""How can what did not erode for 100 million years to expose a full dino print , now be eroding only within the last 40 ?""","""Because the location of the tracks used to be a tidal plane . In other words , it used to be at the edge of the ocean . Around that time the sea coast advanced and receded several times . The tracks were buried . The tracks actually had to be uncovered . The tracks were originally discovered immdiately after an unusually severe storm in the area in which an unusual amount of water came down the Paluxy . That unusual flow of water washed away the soil that covered some of the tracks . Other tracks have been intentionally uncovered . For example , in one case , where a trackway went under a bank , several feet of the bank was removed to expose more tracks .""",DISAGREE,"""How can what did not erode for 100 million years to expose a full dino print , now be eroding only within the last 40 ?""","""Because the location of the tracks used to be a tidal plane . In other words , it used to be at the edge of the ocean""",,
29740,7770,"""I dont care how many frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""And I do n't think Doc cares how many points you can dismiss with a one-liner . BTW if you want to comment on fraudulent sources , stop citing the Brady Campaign or the VPC as your excuse for evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""dont care frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""do n't think Doc cares how many points you can dismiss""",,
29736,7770,"""I dont care how many frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""And I do n't think Doc cares how many points you can dismiss with a one-liner . BTW if you want to comment on fraudulent sources , stop citing the Brady Campaign or the VPC as your excuse for evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""I dont care how many frauds you can copy paste and quote .""","""And I do n't think Doc cares how many points you can dismiss with a one-liner .""",,
29752,7787,"""In the latter case , that 's because more fornicators are shacking up rather than getting married , which is why there 's fewer divorces . If a state allows gay marriages their spirituality is in the toilet . Gay sex sin is a perversion and an abomination according to the Bible .""","""Please provide evidence that 'there are more fornicators are shacking up ' instead of getting married . Or , is that more of your unsupported claims that you are so fond of . As for perversions , you seem to be very unhealthily concerned with other people 's sex lives .""",DISAGREE,"""Gay sex sin is a perversion and an abomination according to the Bible .""","""unhealthily concerned with other people 's sex lives .""",,
29756,7789,"""As I said before , I can ’ t come up with anything persuasive and new for ID . Everything on it has been steamrolled by lots of evolutionists in publicly funded institutions . But it is legitimate to hold other branches of science to the same standard as ID is held to .""","""And they are . Happy ?""",DISAGREE,"""But it is legitimate to hold other branches of science to the same standard as ID is held to .""","""And they are . Happy ?""",,
29769,7793,"""Yes I am sure . Long fur will insulate the dog a lot better than medium fur will . You do not have to be a scientist to figure that one out .""","""And a combination of both long and short hair will insulate better than both . That is why so many animals of the Arctic have a combination of both long and short hair . By the way , short wooly hair is a better insulator than long straight hair .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes I am sure . Long fur will insulate the dog a lot better than medium fur will .""","""And a combination of both long and short hair will insulate better than both .""",,
29789,7798,"""There is a point , however , that the fetal lung is not mature enough to survive outside the womb even with mechanical assistance . So , unless our technology will be pretty radically different in the future , it is n't about getting it out , it 's about it not surviving when it is out .""","""The thing is , our technology will be radically different in the future , provided that the conservatives do n't go nuts on us and slow the advance of technlogy .""",DISAGREE,"""the lung is not enough to survive outside the womb even with . So , unless our technology in the future , it about getting it out it 's about it not surviving out .""","""The is our technology will be different in the future , provided that conservatives do go and .""",,
29808,7804,"""Hi Rogue , This is simply false . Rock can be folded under pressure . This has been proven by lab experiment . However there are many features in sedimentary rocks that can not be formed quickly , for example , fossil trackways . This is false . http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate/trees.html I 'm not sure what you 're talking about here . Go on . There are flood stories carried by many cultures , however they do n't match in the details with noah flood myth . Not one mentions noah by name . Reference please . The Grand canyon could not have been created by a flood event , the geology is all wrong : http : //www.talkorigins.org/faqs/icr-science.html The flood explains nothing which can not be explained by other , better-supported means and directly contradicts vast swathes of evidence : Biodivesity and the fossil record are not consistent with the flood . Genetic profiling is not consistent with the flood ( in humans and animals ) The Ark could not hold all animal life . A global mark would have left marks across the entire globe at a consistent time period ; these marks are not found .""","""I think that what you two are doing is simply trading evidences . Saying someone is 'wrong ' and directing them to a atheist web-site is not proof . You should merely be saying , 'here is an alternative argument' I say this because I can access a number of science posts that state the exact opposite of what you say , and show that they can find evidence for a flood .""",DISAGREE,"""The flood explains nothing which can not be explained by other , better-supported means and directly contradicts vast swathes of evidence""","""I think that what you two are doing is simply trading evidences .""",,
29819,7807,"""Once again , this shows the true colors of liberals . Oh they 'll scream `` tolerance `` and `` acceptance `` when it relates to them or their causes . But whenever conservatives speak up , to quote Rush : `` Racist , Sexist , Bigot , Homophobe `` are the standard fare that is heard .""","""So conservatives can give shout their brand of lies as the truth but a liberal who calls them on it is n't being tolerant ?""",DISAGREE,"""But whenever conservatives speak up , to quote Rush : `` Racist , Sexist , Bigot , Homophobe `` are the standard fare that is heard .""","""So conservatives can give shout their brand of lies as the truth but a liberal who calls them on it is n't being tolerant ?""",,
29818,7807,"""Once again , this shows the true colors of liberals . Oh they 'll scream `` tolerance `` and `` acceptance `` when it relates to them or their causes . But whenever conservatives speak up , to quote Rush : `` Racist , Sexist , Bigot , Homophobe `` are the standard fare that is heard .""","""So conservatives can give shout their brand of lies as the truth but a liberal who calls them on it is n't being tolerant ?""",DISAGREE,"""Once again , this shows the true colors of liberals""","""liberal who calls them on it is n't being tolerant""",,
29825,7809,"""Abortion is n't a legal crime . How ever , in all other ways , it certainly is a crime . I think the moderator should move this to abortion discussion .""","""If it 's not illegal * , it 's not a crime , by definition . Can we stipulate that while it is not illegal in most countries under most circumstances , it is indeed immoral ? * Or the president does it .""",DISAGREE,"""I think the moderator should move this to abortion discussion .""","""Can we stipulate that while it is not illegal in most countries under most circumstances , it is indeed immoral ? * Or the president does it""",,
29829,7810,"""this is the omega word""","""And you 're a poor replacement for that koolaid-drinking Seer Travis .""",DISAGREE,"""this is the omega word""","""And you 're a poor replacement for that koolaid-drinking Seer Travis .""",,
29838,7812,"""I do ask you to question the belief because of the makeup of the female in God ’ s scheme of things and undue burden legislation would put on a woman . I think that Alan Simpson , Conservative Republican of Wyoming said it best when he said ,  “ Not only shouldn ’ t men have a vote on the issue , they should keep their mouths shut. ”""","""Just because a woman is made to bear children does n't mean she has some God given right to abort her child . I do n't think you can support this view with God 's word . -theo""",DISAGREE,"""I do ask you to question the belief because of the makeup of the female in God ’ s scheme of things and undue burden legislation would put on a woman .""","""Just because a woman is made to bear children does n't mean she has some God given right to abort her child .""",,
29846,7820,"""Where were the French on D-Day and the Normandy Invasion when Hitler was burglering their Nation ? I do n't recall history mentioning a Frenchman around but the Americans were saving their rears once again ...""","""Are you really this historically ignorant ? Free French Forces - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia French Resistance - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""",DISAGREE,"""Americans were saving their rears once again ...""","""Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""",,
29852,7821,"""For example , it 's widely accepted that Judaism did not arise in a cultural vacuum , but that the ancient Hebrews borrowed theology and mythology from the Canaanites , Babylonians , and Persians .""","""And from the Egyptians . I was skimming through a book last night called `` 101 Myths of the Bible `` ( IIRC ) that explained how the Creation myth in Genesis ( and many other myths in the Bible ) was a modified form of Egyptian ( and possibly , Bablylonian , etc . - I ca n't remember ) mythologies .""",AGREE,"""Hebrews borrowed theology and mythology from the Canaanites , Babylonians , and Persians .""","""many other myths in the Bible ) was a modified form of Egyptian ( and possibly , Bablylonian , etc . - I ca n't remember ) mythologies .""",,
29865,7824,"""Unfortunately , Dembski and his `` explanatory `` filter are more hot air than substance . He has claiming to have 'discovered ' desing in nature by using the 'filter ' , but for some strange reason , he has yet to publish his amazing discovery . he said he was going to do it in `` Mere Creation `` , then he said it would be iun `` No Free Lunch `` - so tell us , IS IT actually in his newest collection of apocryphal tall tales , or is is just assumed that he has done so ? Common tactic - keep claiming that you will do something , then claim to have already done it later on , without , of course , actually doing it . The only times Dembski has acxtually applied it , he did it to things1 . we know were the product of design and 2. never did it on anything biological . It is all fluff and hot air .""","""So how long did Darwin take to publish ?""",DISAGREE,"""Dembski and his `` explanatory `` filter are more hot air than substance .""","""how long did Darwin take to publish ?""",,
29889,7828,"""So , in a nutshell , I 'd like to see some real evidences of the relationship between dolphins and ichys before I blindly trust what the almighty lurch says .""","""Well why not start at the beginning ? Handy Dinosaur Answer Book""",DISAGREE,"""I 'd like to see some real evidences of the relationship between dolphins and ichys before I blindly trust what the almighty lurch says .""","""Well why not start at the beginning ?""",,
29902,7831,"""Athiesim has no such standard , and I do n't want to hear about relative `` ethics `` that mean nothing , or have no longevity , or change with the winds .""","""Atheism does n't have that standard because it 's not that encompassing a thought . All athiesm is , is a lack of theism , period . It says nothing about morals or ethics . Your typical athiest , though , looks within to find what 's moral or ethical and it usually just stems from what 's acceptable behavior within the human species . This is also where religion gets its morality and ethics . But times change , and eating shellfish wo n't kill you , and eating meat on friday wo n't make the farmers go broke , so the morals and ethics change to fit the society .""",DISAGREE,"""Athiesim has no such standard , and I do n't want to hear about relative `` ethics ``""","""Atheism does n't have that standard because it 's not that encompassing a thought""",,
29917,7836,"""I 'm guessing that there is a problem in Scotland of youths taking pot shots at people with air rifles .""","""I think the green fees are too high on the golf courses . They would be trying to make a hole in one instead of a hole in Juan .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm guessing that there is a problem in Scotland of youths taking pot shots at people with air rifles .""","""I think the green fees are too high on the golf courses . They would be trying to make a hole in one instead of a hole in Juan .""",,
29922,7837,"""God is often the answer for the things we ca n't explain . Since we are not gods , we can not know everything . Alot , yes . Everything , no .""","""But I think that Gods originally came about to explain why a large yellow thing goes up and down everyday . To a caveman the most logical explanation is there is a God . Now we know better . Just because there are still things we ca n't explain does not mean they must be from God .""",DISAGREE,"""Since we are not gods , we can not know everything .""","""To a caveman the most logical explanation is there is a God .""",,
29926,7839,"""Got ta ask . If god is all knowing and all powerful , why does Satan exist ? He knew Satan would be evil , yet he still `` created `` him ? Then , he ca n't get rid of Satan . Makes no sense whatsoever .""","""If any human attempts to answer in God 's stead , that person would likely not be qualified to answer . One can speculate however . God already had angels within his kingdom when he made man . Some angels felt that God loved his humans more than themselves . In their jealous vanity , they rebelled against God . Bad idea , considering his power and all . God hates vanity . Thus he condemned Satan to rule over hell . When man disobeyed God 's rule concerning partaking of the fruit of knowledge , God made a pact with man that gave him the burden of choice . He must choose right from wrong . Suffer the consequences of bad choices , reap the benefits of righteousness . Satan just happens to be there to take care of those who choose the wrong path . One mistake humans seem to make often is considering themselves capable of understanding the logic of God . Of course if one does not believe in God , no need to worry about it .""",DISAGREE,"""Got ta ask . If god is all knowing and all powerful ,""","""God made a pact with man that gave him the burden of choice .""",,
29932,7841,"""Yes , it 's a common problem that nutjob parody posts can be hard to distinguish from sincere nutjobs posts . This is an artifact of how utterly ridiculous the nutjob position is .""","""Agreed . Lesson learned , dont make a joke post in a Creationism Vs. Evolution discussion .""",AGREE,"""it 's a common problem that nutjob parody posts can be hard to distinguish from sincere nutjobs posts .""","""Agreed . Lesson learned""",,
29939,7844,"""No , I doubt it would . Intent to deceive vanishes .""","""And how would you ensure that there are n't any innocent victims of paperwork errors ? Are you gon na have the laws specifically spell this out ?""",DISAGREE,"""I doubt it would .""","""how would you ensure that there are n't any innocent victims""",,
29954,7852,"""In the last three months of 2008 , that 's right , three months , Americans bought enough guns to outfit the Chinese and Indian armies , combined . Actually , that 's just reflective of the NICS checks , which do n't cover sales by private parties , and buys by CCW permit holders . There were also 1.5 BILLION rounds of ammo sold , which explains why I 'm having trouble finding .45 ACP lately .""","""USA Buys Enough Guns in 3 Months to Outfit the Entire Chinese and Indian Army""",AGREE,"""Americans bought enough guns to outfit the Chinese and Indian armies , combined .""","""USA Buys Enough Guns in 3 Months to Outfit the Entire Chinese and Indian Army""",,
29962,7855,"""Again , you speak as if gays and lesbians are not worthy of their relationships being sacred to them . As if gays and lesbians are unable to hold dear any concept of commitment , loyalty , partnership .""","""Sure Justine , just like all those gay couples that waited until their state recognized gay marriage to tie the knot on TV . And then once the media got tired of it it 's died down to a trickle in Massachusetts . . . Marriage as a political lobbyists ' tool is n't too sacred IMO .""",DISAGREE,"""you speak as if gays and lesbians are unable to hold dear any concept of commitment""","""Marriage as a political lobbyists ' tool is n't too sacred IMO .""",,
29965,7856,"""should i break it down for you ? ? ? ok lets go into categories , bisexuals , transsexuals , gays , lesbians . simple enough for you ? ?""","""No . Try agan .""",DISAGREE,"""should i break it down for you ? ? ? ok lets go into categories , bisexuals , transsexuals , gays , lesbians . simple enough for you ? ?""","""No . Try agan .""",,
29967,7856,"""should i break it down for you ? ? ? ok lets go into categories , bisexuals , transsexuals , gays , lesbians . simple enough for you ? ?""","""No . Try agan .""",DISAGREE,"""ok lets go into categories , bisexuals , transsexuals , gays , lesbians . simple enough for you""","""No .""",,
30024,7869,"""If Java Man , Peking Man , Neanderthal Man and Cro Magnon Man are just lower Apes and not our Ancestors , then why oh why are they referred to as MAN according to evolutionists ?""","""Because they 're judged to be derivative of the branch that led to us rather than the branches that led to the other apes .""",DISAGREE,"""If Java Man , Peking Man , Neanderthal Man and Cro Magnon Man are Apes and not our Ancestors , then why oh why to as MAN evolutionists ?""","""Because they to be the branch that to us rather than the branches that to the other apes .""",,
30042,7875,"""And FYI , `` marriage `` was around long before the Bible .""","""And so was n't the universal opinion that homosexuality is unnatural , wrong and to no benefit to Society at all .""",DISAGREE,"""marriage `` was around long""","""opinion that homosexuality is unnatural""",,
30045,7883,"""Global warming is nothing more than a myth that was cooked up by nature freaks who 're against anything industrialized . And if that is n't true , then I do n't care ; we 've already done far too much damage for any difference to be made now .""","""Hi NATO , I agree that irresponsible industrial pollution is damaging the environment and would never deny that at all . Acid Rain which is a side effect of air pollution has polluted more lakes , streams and rivers than direct dumping has and that is a direct result of heavy metals and other toxins being spewed into the atmosphere by industrial smoke stacks . So this reality goes without saying in my opinion . But environmental pollution is very different than extending the claim to the next level of Global Warming which implies that the worlds atmosphere is now incapable of repairing itself . That is the crux of this argument and if the atmosphere were so polluted that the Earth was unable to repair itself , then the air quality here in NH would be as polluted as it is in China and Russia even though we have no industrial air polluters at all to speak of here . That would be solid evidence that the volume of pollutants in the atmosphere is overwhelming the Earths ability to repair itself . But our air quality is pristine in comparison to any and all third world countries who are the largest polluters due to their lack of having any industrial pollution safeguards in place . So we must make the distinction between environmental pollution and air pollution clear because the Global Warming fraud is based specifically on the claim that air pollution is changing our weather and warming the planet , since all of the scientific evidence belies that claim .""",AGREE,"""Global warming is nothing more than a myth that was cooked up by nature freaks who 're against anything industrialized . And if that is n't true , then I do n't care ; we 've already done far too much damage for any difference to be made now .""","""Hi NATO , I agree that irresponsible industrial pollution is damaging the environment and would never deny that at Acid Rain which is a side effect of air pollution has polluted more lakes , streams and rivers than direct dumping has and that is a direct result of heavy metals and other toxins being spewed into the atmosphere by industrial smoke stacks . So this reality goes without saying in my opinion . But environmental pollution is very different than extending the claim to the next level of Global Warming which implies that the worlds atmosphere is now incapable of repairing That is the crux of this argument and if the atmosphere were so polluted that the Earth was unable to repair itself , then the air quality here in NH would be as polluted as it is in China and Russia even though we have no industrial air polluters at all to speak of here . That would be solid evidence that the volume of pollutants in the atmosphere is overwhelming the Earths ability to repair itself . But our air quality is pristine in comparison to any and all third world countries who are the largest polluters due to their lack of having any industrial pollution safeguards in So we must make the distinction between environmental pollution and air pollution clear because the Global Warming fraud is based specifically on the claim that air pollution is changing our weather and warming the planet , since all of the scientific evidence belies that claim .""",,
30055,7885,"""I simply wanted to point out that pregnancy can kill a woman . Guess you just could n't understand that .""","""No one said otherwise and it is still irrelevant .""",DISAGREE,"""I simply wanted to point out that pregnancy can kill a woman . Guess you just could n't understand that .""","""No one said otherwise and it is still irrelevant .""",,
30068,7887,"""It is just incredible to me that so many people accept the basic premise that evolutionists put out there , which is that there is enough variation within a species that would genetically disallow a portion of the population to breed .""","""Who has ever made this claim ? Please , show me , because I have never once heard it . Of course most individuals are physically capable of producing offspring . Natural selection is dependant upon which individuals will pass their genetic information on to the next generation , and that is determined by at least two factors that I can think of at the moment : 1 . ) An individual being able to survive long enough to find a mate , and 2 . ) Actually being able to find a mate and produce offspring , which brings me to my next point :""",DISAGREE,"""It is just incredible to me that so many people accept the basic premise that evolutionists put out there""","""Who has ever made this claim ? Please , show me , because I have never once heard it .""",,
30074,7888,"""If you 're prepared to eat livestock feed you 've got a plan .""","""Bad , bad , bad . 1 ) Reducing meat consumption will create a change towards more agricultural farming which is more sustainable for humans and the environment . 1 ) Some , perhaps all `` Livestock feed `` is actually edible for humans ; GM maize is regularly consumed in the US and Mexico . 2 ) One does not have to consume those foods as there are thousands of plant foods that can be eaten .""",DISAGREE,"""If you 're prepared to eat livestock feed you 've got a plan .""","""Bad , bad , 1 ) Reducing meat consumption will create a change towards more agricultural farming which is more sustainable for humans and the 1 ) Some , perhaps all `` Livestock feed `` is actually edible for humans ; GM maize is regularly consumed in the US and Mexico . 2 ) One does not have to consume those foods as there are thousands of plant foods that can be eaten .""",,
30084,7889,"""We 're all quite impressed with your knowledge of third grade insults , unfortunately , this is not debate .""","""Thank You . You know how much I love to impress people .""",AGREE,"""We 're all quite impressed with your knowledge of third grade insults , unfortunately , this is not debate .""","""Thank You .""",,
30088,7890,"""... Do n't you think your preachers should explain these problems to you ?""","""Have faith and the problem will go away ...""",DISAGREE,"""preachers""","""problem""",,
30085,7890,"""... Do n't you think your preachers should explain these problems to you ?""","""Have faith and the problem will go away ...""",DISAGREE,""" Do n't you think your preachers should explain these problems to you ?""","""Have faith and the problem will go away ...""",,
30087,7890,"""... Do n't you think your preachers should explain these problems to you ?""","""Have faith and the problem will go away ...""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't you think your preachers should explain these problems to you ?""","""Have faith and the problem will go away""",,
30089,7891,"""We have some major flaws in our legal system . The first and foremost legal flaw is that American prisoners are American people and thus are granted first ammendment American rights . This means that murderers who do n't get birthday cakes , a basketball court , tv , and a turkey for Thanksgiving go crying cruel and unusual punishment and then they get it . I 've heard that the average cost of living of a capital punishment prisoner is appoximately $ 25,000.00 a year paid for by us . It 's really bad when murderers on deathrow in Mexico are calling murderers on deathrow in America p * * * * * s and want to transfer here . LEVIATHAN""","""You know what is far worse than murder itself ? Executing people to save some money .""",DISAGREE,"""system""","""to .""",,
30102,7894,"""Gay marriage will change the institution . Just becasue some epopel are bad at fulfilling something does n't mean that others should be allwoed to corrupt the institution as well . It like saying since many people default on student loans , then loans standards should be relaxed to accommodate other people who can as easily default on a loan .""","""I know a miriad of gay couples who would corrupt it signifigantly less than Brittney .""",DISAGREE,"""Just becasue some epopel are bad at fulfilling something does n't mean that others should be allwoed to corrupt the institution as well .""","""I know a miriad of gay couples who would corrupt it signifigantly less than Brittney .""",,
30104,7895,"""So , we are forced , in the interest of continuing dialogue , to point out all of the flaws in there argument .""","""So you admit there is NO scientific evidence of any theory of creation . Thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""we are the to all of .""","""NO scientific any of creation . Thanks .""",,
30123,7898,"""Fetal Homocide ? Toddler Homicide ? A human in different stages of development ..... Why/or What is the difference ? And if someone wanted this legal ( Toddler Homicide ) ... I do n't see much anybody could do legally to stop it .. When women kill their tots they are locked up/ and branded with a criminal record vs the female who callously kills durning the fetal stage . ( Double standard ? ) I have a couple friends , who have aborted more than once , because they did n't want to lose their girly figure ( trivial ) . I find it eerie and disturbion .....""","""Well , an abortion ca n't technically be called 'fetal homicide ' because it is n't illegal ... homicide is . If a woman kills her toddler , that is homicide , and it is n't legal , and I do n't see how it ever could/would be ... all murder is illegal , but to call an abortion murder is really only your personal opinion on the issue , because as of now it is a legal procedure . Some people consider it to be murder , and some do n't .. it is n't an open and shut thing either way ; if it were , there would n't be so much debate over it , and if it were considered to be murder all around , no questions , then it would not be legal . Maybe the laws will change someday , who knows .. but right now it 's not illegal for a woman to have an abortion . You can call it a double standard , but again that is mainly just opinion . But I also have had friends who have had abortions because they did n't want to 'get fat ' .. I know of one girl who had 7 by the time she was 22 ... that is pretty disturbing , and I do n't think that it 's really right to do it for reasons like that ... like I said to her , if she were so afraid of getting pregnant , or getting 'fat ' , she should have either not had sex or she should have used protection ... there are ways to prevent pregnancy , and birth control costs a hell of a lot less than an abortion ( especially 7 times ) .. but at the same time I also had a friend who got pregnant , and got scared , and made an appointment to a clinic , and once she got there she did n't think she could go through with it , and now she has a healthy , adorable 5 year old and she is very thankful that she did n't have the abortion after all ... but in the cases of my friends , all I could do was offer an opinion if they asked , but I did n't feel I had the right to tell them what to do either way . You really ca n't know what is going on in a woman 's mind when she is considering an abortion , or after she has had one done .""",DISAGREE,"""Fetal Homocide ? Toddler Homicide ? A human in different stages of development ..... Why/or What is the difference ? And if someone wanted this legal ( Toddler Homicide ) ... I do n't see much anybody could do legally to stop it .""","""if it were , there would n't be so much debate over it , and if it were considered to be murder all around , no questions , then it would not be legal . Maybe the laws will change someday , who knows .. but right now it 's not illegal for a woman to have an abortion .""",,
30120,7898,"""Fetal Homocide ? Toddler Homicide ? A human in different stages of development ..... Why/or What is the difference ? And if someone wanted this legal ( Toddler Homicide ) ... I do n't see much anybody could do legally to stop it .. When women kill their tots they are locked up/ and branded with a criminal record vs the female who callously kills durning the fetal stage . ( Double standard ? ) I have a couple friends , who have aborted more than once , because they did n't want to lose their girly figure ( trivial ) . I find it eerie and disturbion .....""","""Well , an abortion ca n't technically be called 'fetal homicide ' because it is n't illegal ... homicide is . If a woman kills her toddler , that is homicide , and it is n't legal , and I do n't see how it ever could/would be ... all murder is illegal , but to call an abortion murder is really only your personal opinion on the issue , because as of now it is a legal procedure . Some people consider it to be murder , and some do n't .. it is n't an open and shut thing either way ; if it were , there would n't be so much debate over it , and if it were considered to be murder all around , no questions , then it would not be legal . Maybe the laws will change someday , who knows .. but right now it 's not illegal for a woman to have an abortion . You can call it a double standard , but again that is mainly just opinion . But I also have had friends who have had abortions because they did n't want to 'get fat ' .. I know of one girl who had 7 by the time she was 22 ... that is pretty disturbing , and I do n't think that it 's really right to do it for reasons like that ... like I said to her , if she were so afraid of getting pregnant , or getting 'fat ' , she should have either not had sex or she should have used protection ... there are ways to prevent pregnancy , and birth control costs a hell of a lot less than an abortion ( especially 7 times ) .. but at the same time I also had a friend who got pregnant , and got scared , and made an appointment to a clinic , and once she got there she did n't think she could go through with it , and now she has a healthy , adorable 5 year old and she is very thankful that she did n't have the abortion after all ... but in the cases of my friends , all I could do was offer an opinion if they asked , but I did n't feel I had the right to tell them what to do either way . You really ca n't know what is going on in a woman 's mind when she is considering an abortion , or after she has had one done .""",DISAGREE,"""Fetal Homocide ? Toddler Homicide ? A human in different stages of development ..... Why/or What is the difference""","""an abortion ca n't technically be called 'fetal homicide ' because it is n't illegal ... homicide is""",,
30134,7899,"""But you ignored an important part of your own quote , `` Thus , without an independent criterion for fitness , other than survival , ... `` And of course , Darwin did most certainly express other criterion besides survival . Let me help clarify for you . Survival is not the sole requirement , or even the most important requirement . It should be quite clear to even the most muddled thinker that reproduction is required . In fact , reproduction is the most important requirement . Survival is necessary only long enough for an organism to reproduce , and if an organism does n't reproduce , it is an evolutionary dead end no matter how long it survives . You see , as was mentioned in your definitions and in comments , natural selection is differential reproduction . Natural selection is not a tautology . Only the phrase , `` survival of the fittest `` reduces to a tautology .""","""Which , as stated , Darwin thought was in fact a better phrase , or 'more accurate ' ... `` But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer , of the Survival of the Fittest , is more accurate , and is sometimes equally convenient. `` from the 6th edition of `` Origin of the Species `` http : //www.literature.org/authors/da ... hapter-03.html""",DISAGREE,"""Thus , without an independent criterion for fitness , other than survival""","""expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer , of the Survival of the Fittest""",,
30135,7899,"""But you ignored an important part of your own quote , `` Thus , without an independent criterion for fitness , other than survival , ... `` And of course , Darwin did most certainly express other criterion besides survival . Let me help clarify for you . Survival is not the sole requirement , or even the most important requirement . It should be quite clear to even the most muddled thinker that reproduction is required . In fact , reproduction is the most important requirement . Survival is necessary only long enough for an organism to reproduce , and if an organism does n't reproduce , it is an evolutionary dead end no matter how long it survives . You see , as was mentioned in your definitions and in comments , natural selection is differential reproduction . Natural selection is not a tautology . Only the phrase , `` survival of the fittest `` reduces to a tautology .""","""Which , as stated , Darwin thought was in fact a better phrase , or 'more accurate ' ... `` But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer , of the Survival of the Fittest , is more accurate , and is sometimes equally convenient. `` from the 6th edition of `` Origin of the Species `` http : //www.literature.org/authors/da ... hapter-03.html""",DISAGREE,"""Natural selection is not a tautology . Only the phrase , `` survival of the fittest `` reduces to a tautology .""","""sometimes equally convenient. `` from the 6th edition of `` Origin of the Species `` http : //www.literature.org/authors/da ... hapter-03.html""",,
30155,7901,"""This just happens to be one of my favorite ID concepts . The concept of impossible improbabilities . If it is unlikely , then it is impossible .""","""I know ..... I 've wondered from time to time exactly what this improbability is . I mean most of us would find the probabilities of dealing a given sequence from a deck of 52 card pretty `` improbable `` . I guess its best to avoid those tricky fact things and stick to words only .""",AGREE,"""This just happens to be one of my favorite ID concepts .""","""I mean most of us would find the probabilities of dealing a given sequence""",,
30149,7901,"""This just happens to be one of my favorite ID concepts . The concept of impossible improbabilities . If it is unlikely , then it is impossible .""","""I know ..... I 've wondered from time to time exactly what this improbability is . I mean most of us would find the probabilities of dealing a given sequence from a deck of 52 card pretty `` improbable `` . I guess its best to avoid those tricky fact things and stick to words only .""",AGREE,"""ID concepts improbabilities""","""I 've wondered from time to time exactly what this improbability is . probabilities of dealing a given sequence from a deck of 52 card pretty `` improbable""",,
30158,7902,"""Yes ... because black people are Neanderthals""","""I believe white supremacists hate all non-whites , not just blacks .""",AGREE,"""Yes ... because black people are Neanderthals""","""I believe white supremacists hate all non-whites , not just blacks .""",,
30182,7905,"""This is a very fundamental difference how anti-gunners view the 2nd Amendment and the nature of rights . They think of the Bill of Rights as a 'permission slip ' , the view the text as proof that the government gives us rights . The government does nothing of that sort , the Bill of Rights as a document declares that government is FORBIDEN to grab power over the issuses and rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights .""","""Well I replied to this same post a couple months ago , but I would like to respond with a new perspective I have on it now . Basically the basics of the US government is that it is to secure our rights and our safety , so that we do n't live in a state of anarchy , where the biggest strongest man wins . If a power is n't given to the government , they may not use it . The bill of rights is an even further prohibition of regulation . To make a law based on firearms or anything they have to have a reason for doing it , and the federal government may not be involved unless the Constitution grants them the right to ( it does n't mention guns in the powers it gives the US government ) . The 2nd amendment is restricting the government ( federal , states , and local governments ) from infringing upon that right . But the question still arises , what is meant by the mysterious militia clause ? There are many interpreations on this but I think the basic meaning of this is so that a similar thing could happen as did in the American revolution . But then an even bigger problem arises . If that purpose is to be left intact we need to allow the citizens to access the same weapons the government has . But I really do n't feel comfortable allowing citizens with atomic bombs and such . This is really a problem . Also , obviously if this were meant to be a tool for a revolution , would n't concealed weapons also be covered ? Again it seems that it is currently impossible to follow the intentions of the amendment . Many will use the quote `` Those that sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither `` , but this is a hollow argument . The whole purpose of government is that we give up some of our natural liberties ( the liberty to kill someone ) for personal safety and protection of our other rights ( the right to life ) . I agree you can not go too far , but where do we draw the line ? I do n't like the idea of an oppressive government owning all the weapons or do I want them available to the worst criminals , so that instead of handguns and regular bombs , they are using uzies and atomic bombs ? Do you have more trust in the government or in the general public ? That 's a hard question to answer because I do n't have much trust in either one , therefor I seem to be undecided on where to really draw the line . As you can see , my opinion on this matter has changed drastically over the past few months , mostly because of this site ( see , ideas really can change minds ) , so please do n't tell me how I 'm contradicting myself here .""",AGREE,"""The government does nothing of that sort , the Bill of Rights as a document declares that government is FORBIDEN to grab power over the issuses and rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights .""","""I seem to be undecided on where to really draw the line .""",,
30188,7906,"""probably because I want him to think for himself ( assuming a he ) and not be fed stuff from people that ca n't respect others wishes like yourself . Do you realize that there was a time when abortion was illegal and that dead infants were not just lining the streets . Stop with straw-man arguments that you hold so dear .""","""Whoah ! Ohmigawd ! You talk about your historical illiteracy ! Some little peabrains have never assimilated the knowledge that until rather recently IT WAS QUITE COMMON TO ABANDON UNWANTED INFANTS IN THE WILDS TO FEED THE BLOODY WOLVES AND SUCH ! IN FACT , IN OLD ROME THE RIGHT OF PATERFAMILIA INCLUDED THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGMENT ON NEWLY BORN INFANTS IN HIS FAMILY , WOULD THEY BE WELCOMED INTO THE FAMILY OR EXPOSED ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Do I have to explain to the various peabrains what the term `` exposed `` means ?""",DISAGREE,"""Do you realize that there was a time when abortion was illegal and that dead infants were not just lining the streets""","""Whoah ! Ohmigawd ! You talk about your historical illiteracy ! Some little peabrains have never assimilated the knowledge that until rather recently IT WAS QUITE COMMON TO ABANDON UNWANTED INFANTS IN THE WILDS TO FEED THE BLOODY WOLVES AND SUCH ! IN FACT""",,
30197,7907,"""the gangs are blamed for 90 percent of the homicides in Jamaica - 1,611 last year , about 10 times more than the U.S. rate , relative to population .""","""And with strict gun control laws too . Wow , who would 've believed such a thing were possible .""",DISAGREE,"""gangs are blamed""","""gun control laws""",,
30200,7908,"""cars address the needs of transportation . The need for transportaion has always existed .""","""But the modes have changed , grown and expanded with time . First it was the FEET , then the wheel was invented . Not the other way around . There is a wide range of choices when it comes to transportation . Cars are not the be all and end all .""",DISAGREE,"""cars address the needs of transportation . The need for transportaion has always existed .""","""But the modes have changed , grown and expanded with time .""",,
30201,7908,"""cars address the needs of transportation . The need for transportaion has always existed .""","""But the modes have changed , grown and expanded with time . First it was the FEET , then the wheel was invented . Not the other way around . There is a wide range of choices when it comes to transportation . Cars are not the be all and end all .""",DISAGREE,"""The need for transportaion has always existed .""","""But the modes have changed , grown and expanded with time .""",,
30213,7910,"""Do me a favor Calli . Tell me the definition of a transitional fossil . What would you expect a transitional fossil to look like ? What would you call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features ?""","""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created at the beginning of time . What about platapuses ? They have a duck 's bill and yet they live mostly underwater . Are they a link from ducks to mammals ? Are bats a link from rats to birds ?""",DISAGREE,"""Tell me the definition of a transitional fossil . What would you expect a transitional fossil to look like ?""","""I would call a fossil that had both reptillian and avian features a strange creature that God created at the beginning of time .""",,
30245,7927,"""... you can not disprove that life is devolving ...""","""A nonsensical concept . Genetic change is genetic change . Evolutionary theory does n't contain any concept of progress . Only scientific illiterate creationists try to insist that it does .""",DISAGREE,"""you can not disprove that life is devolving""","""Evolutionary theory does n't contain any concept of""",,
30251,7929,"""To say that an all knowing and loving God would prevent any suffering among the innocent is assuming that a lack of suffering is the best situation for us in God 's view . God can be all powerful and loving and still , innocents will suffer due to the poor choices of others .""","""Ok , this does seem like one of the weaker arguments as to why there is no evidence for godÂ… but it ’ s like thisÂ… Some people ’ s idea of god is all loving , and all knowingÂ… and well you know . But if that were the case we would expect there to not be things like pain and suffering . Granted , we may not actually be able to know his grand design , and how this pain is actually necessaryÂ… but it just goes against my reasoning . I guess I could take their word for it that it ’ s part of God ’ s planÂ… but since they don ’ t know his plan either that isn ’ t very comfortingÂ… and hardly positive evidence . It also gets me wondering how they don ’ t know how god ’ s design work , however they do know god has certain qualities . ( but that ’ s neither here nor there )""",DISAGREE,"""God can be all powerful and loving and still , innocents will suffer due to the poor choices of others""","""this does seem like one of the weaker arguments as to why there is no evidence for godÂ… but it ’ s like thisÂ… Some people ’ s idea of god is all loving , and all knowingÂ… and well you know . But if that were the case we would expect there to not be things like pain and suffering . Granted , we may not actually be able to know his grand design , and how this pain is actually necessaryÂ… but it just goes against my reasoning""",,
30252,7930,"""My stance on morality is based on the following observations : 1 . '' I `` for me means my mental self , with my physical self just tagging along . 2 . I do not wish to suffer or to have those I care about suffer . 3 . I feel empathy toward others and often feel sorry for the suffering of others . Those are observations , not proclamations . The way I choose a moral code to avoid the problem of suffering is to essentially make a theoretical deal with others to have a mutual moral code that we will all treat each other as we ourselves would be treated - in this way , all of us can win out and I solve my problem of points 2 and 3 . Perhaps there are other better ways of finding a solution for societies to avoid suffering , but I have n't heard of one . I did not choose this solution arbitrarily . I chose it since it makes sense and should theoretically work and since many , if not most people , at least make some effort at using that moral code anyway so this moral code is at least partially universally adopted . It is the best moral option I have ever heard to address my concern about suffering . What is arbitrary about the reasoning I presented above ? What unsupported proclamations do you claim that I have made ? Either way , are you proposing that all moral systems are equally arbitrary and therefore equally valid ? In your scenario , someone could come up with an arbitrary proclamation `` black people should be slaves to white people `` and build a morality based on that . My moral approach questions that proclamation as well and thus avoids un-necessary human suffering .""","""First off , all equally arbitrary does n't mean they are all valid . If I made a mistake let me clear that up now Secondly , you still have an arbitrary system going there . The idea that many people believe something does n't make it true . Furthermore , your observations still make several assumptions that in fact are proclamations . Obviously people have come to observe different things from you ... all of which ca n't be proven ( in the sense we mean it ) and all of which are abitrary .""",DISAGREE,"""all moral systems are equally arbitrary and therefore equally valid""","""all equally arbitrary does n't mean they are all valid""",,
30263,7933,"""I 'm sorry but the baby is a part of both of them . Should it be that the mother decides to keep the baby and the father want 's her to terminate the state will still come chasing for child support . Why the father did n't get a say on if the baby was born or not so why should he have to pay child supportbecause the law says so .""","""Abortion is about pregnancy - and whether or a not a woman wants to be or can sustain a pregnancy - physically , emotionally and economically . Nobody has to be a parent . That is why there is adoption , safe-haven laws , the signing away of parental rights - and oh yes , an ever growing population of dead beat dads . I am still waiting to see proof of all the mourning dads due to women having abortions . Most of those women are desperate and alone - or have the blessing of the father .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm sorry but the baby is a part of both of them""","""Abortion is about pregnancy - and whether or a not a woman wants to be or can sustain a pregnancy""",,
30273,7935,"""With enough of a population size , you can check the effects of dozens of variables at once .""","""You can check the statistical relationship between dozens of variables , not the effects of them . For example if I correlated left hand strength with right hand strength across a billion individuals I would probably find a correlation of about 0.93 , however this relationship is not causal , cutting off one hand will not result in a 90 % strength reduction in the other . Correlational studies like this one can not determine cause and effect .""",DISAGREE,"""With enough of a population size , you can check the effects of dozens of variables at once .""","""You can check the statistical relationship between dozens of variables , not the effects of them""",,
30297,7948,"""As theorized , the concept of evolution is analogous to slow morphing , rather than quick abrupt changes in a species . MORPHING ! , as can be done with computer graphics programs designed by intelligent beings . Evolution implies species go through a process of advantagous and purposful change -- but morphing is accomplished by unintelligent random processes , or at least that 's how the story goes -- the created universe and life were random events . I have been patiently waiting for many years but to date have never seen or heard of any species morphing into another species . I am aware of genetic defects that limit species but unaware of mutations that perpetuate new species . Clearly variation within species is possible and has been observed , such as poodles and great danes , but they remain members of the same species . Mankind has thousands of years of written history and I am unaware of anyone observing species morphation ( Is that a word ? ) . Although it is approaching 200 years after Darwin hypothesised how species might have originated , we are no closer to observing a species morphing than Darwin . Humans attempt to create new species , such as breeding donkey with horses to get mules and lions with tigers to get ligers , but these `` NEW `` species are almost always born sterile and unable to perpetuate themselves . Besides observing it , the way to demonstrate evolution is to manipulate a species until it developes into a new species , but alas , then all you will have proven is directed efforts of intelligent beings create species . Hmm , wonder what intelligent being ( s ) created us ?""","""I would suggest you look at the faero island mouse then . That is a new species , and it is not man doing it , but rather nature itself .""",DISAGREE,"""the concept of evolution is analogous manipulate a species""","""look at the faero island mouse then""",,
30308,7951,"""1 ) Reptile develops feathers . They offer reduced protection . They itch . Rustle in the bush . Feathers devolve .""","""They do not . They offer increased thermal protection and thus make a greater range of habitats possible . Feathers also offer increased protection from attack . They are so good that several native American cultures were known to make armor from feathers . They absorb and spread impact quite well . Feathers do n't itch and they do n't rustle in the bush . Do you have an answers that are n't examples of shallow thinking ?""",DISAGREE,"""1 ) Reptile develops feathers . They offer reduced protection .""","""They do not .""",,
30313,7952,"""Actually , materialism does not have any answer for what 'drives ' any organization , when you take the broad view . Meaning that their reliance on terms like 'law ' , 'force ' , 'energy ' , etc. , are only labels for unobserved non-corporeal , non-substantial , non-mateial , 'drivers ' , that are inferred from observations of certain repetitive , iterated 'change ' phenomena/effects detected within this temporal , physical , substantial , corporeal universe . What these 'drivers ' are , in and of themselves , is beyond materialism 's power to explain , so it simply evades that fundamental question and starts with a universe , a reality , that 'just happened , that 's all ' . Ex nihilo . Ab nihilo .""","""But it does have an answer , as long as ( and I see no reason to infer otherwise ) 'organisation ' is defined , as are many scientific concepts , as a human-imposed description of the sum of a multitude of physical cause/effect phenomena . Remember when we argued about entropy ? I essentially stated ( or admitted , if you want to see it that way ) that the concepts that we label 'entropy ' , 'order ' , 'disorder ' and even 'particle ' are human-imposed abstracts applied for ease of understanding . Again referencing a point I have previously made , the maths that backs up the areas of physics ( which necessarily includes chemistry/biology ) that are confirmed with near-certitude , is equally as-certain-as-possible , but is impossible to satisfactorily translate into ordinary language ; hence the terms employed that , relative to the maths , are so vague and easily misinterpretable . My best example is the uncertainty principle , which can be explained in words , but can only be shown to be an uncontrevertible fact by using maths . The great thing about the UP is that it is not even necessary to perform a real experiment ; given certain parameters ( already known ) the UP is inevitable . The POV I am justifying here is one that does not even begin to reference such terms as 'organisation ' and what may 'drive ' it . This may be a personal thing , but ideally IMHO the scientific method should never assume 'organisation ' or 'drives ' , it should only look at facts and figures . After this analysis has been done mathematically , there may ( and indeed always are ) patterns discernible that we , humans , can label 'organisation ' and 'drives ' , but these things do not exist in and of themselves . They are abstracts , simplifications , words used so that we do not have to talk in complex equations . Given all this , when we come to the Four Fundamental Forces , we do actually know ( ie we are almost certain ) that these phenomena are a part of the world of facts and figures , not part of the world of human-imposed concepts . My best supporting argument for this is that the FFFs can not ( yet ) be further reduced to anything simpler . There are plenty of other 'forces ' such as kinetic energy , potential energy etc that derive their very existence from the FFFs . The FFFs are anything but non-material , as they are intermediated by known , defined , observed particles/quanta or in the case of gravity , the medium of spacetime . The only confusion comes when trying to determine `` What is a particle ? What is spacetime ? `` Regardless of the answers , surely we have to assume that particles and spacetime are material , for if not , then nothing is .""",DISAGREE,"""materialism does not have any answer for what 'drives""","""does have an answer , as long as ( and I see no reason to infer otherwise""",,
30312,7952,"""Actually , materialism does not have any answer for what 'drives ' any organization , when you take the broad view . Meaning that their reliance on terms like 'law ' , 'force ' , 'energy ' , etc. , are only labels for unobserved non-corporeal , non-substantial , non-mateial , 'drivers ' , that are inferred from observations of certain repetitive , iterated 'change ' phenomena/effects detected within this temporal , physical , substantial , corporeal universe . What these 'drivers ' are , in and of themselves , is beyond materialism 's power to explain , so it simply evades that fundamental question and starts with a universe , a reality , that 'just happened , that 's all ' . Ex nihilo . Ab nihilo .""","""But it does have an answer , as long as ( and I see no reason to infer otherwise ) 'organisation ' is defined , as are many scientific concepts , as a human-imposed description of the sum of a multitude of physical cause/effect phenomena . Remember when we argued about entropy ? I essentially stated ( or admitted , if you want to see it that way ) that the concepts that we label 'entropy ' , 'order ' , 'disorder ' and even 'particle ' are human-imposed abstracts applied for ease of understanding . Again referencing a point I have previously made , the maths that backs up the areas of physics ( which necessarily includes chemistry/biology ) that are confirmed with near-certitude , is equally as-certain-as-possible , but is impossible to satisfactorily translate into ordinary language ; hence the terms employed that , relative to the maths , are so vague and easily misinterpretable . My best example is the uncertainty principle , which can be explained in words , but can only be shown to be an uncontrevertible fact by using maths . The great thing about the UP is that it is not even necessary to perform a real experiment ; given certain parameters ( already known ) the UP is inevitable . The POV I am justifying here is one that does not even begin to reference such terms as 'organisation ' and what may 'drive ' it . This may be a personal thing , but ideally IMHO the scientific method should never assume 'organisation ' or 'drives ' , it should only look at facts and figures . After this analysis has been done mathematically , there may ( and indeed always are ) patterns discernible that we , humans , can label 'organisation ' and 'drives ' , but these things do not exist in and of themselves . They are abstracts , simplifications , words used so that we do not have to talk in complex equations . Given all this , when we come to the Four Fundamental Forces , we do actually know ( ie we are almost certain ) that these phenomena are a part of the world of facts and figures , not part of the world of human-imposed concepts . My best supporting argument for this is that the FFFs can not ( yet ) be further reduced to anything simpler . There are plenty of other 'forces ' such as kinetic energy , potential energy etc that derive their very existence from the FFFs . The FFFs are anything but non-material , as they are intermediated by known , defined , observed particles/quanta or in the case of gravity , the medium of spacetime . The only confusion comes when trying to determine `` What is a particle ? What is spacetime ? `` Regardless of the answers , surely we have to assume that particles and spacetime are material , for if not , then nothing is .""",DISAGREE,"""materialism does not have any answer for what 'drives ' any organization terms like 'law ' , 'force ' , 'energy ' , etc. , are only labels for unobserved non-corporeal beyond materialism 's power to explain""","""But it does have an answer , as long as ( and I see no reason to infer otherwise ) 'organisation ' is defined we label 'entropy ' , 'order ' , 'disorder ' and even 'particle ' are human-imposed abstracts Given all this , when we come to the Four Fundamental Forces , we do actually know ( ie we are almost certain ) that these phenomena are a part of the world of facts and figures , not part of the world of human-imposed concepts . ``""",,
30329,7958,"""I believe that it is possible God created the universe with a Big Bang . I also believe that some evolutionary process had to be made in order for life to begin on Earth . That being said , I do not believe in the `` missing link `` of Evolution where humans came from monkey 's . There is still myriads of inconclusive evidence and missing holes and gaps within the theory itself .""","""And where does the 'Theory of Evolution ' say that Man came from monkeys ? That is a very inaccurate statement . Perhaps you do not accept evolution because of lack of information ? What the theory of evolution states is that monkeys and apes came from a common ancestor , and that humans are apes from a taxonomy point of view . While there are 'gaps ' in knowledge , I suspect if you did a study about what we actually do know about evolution , and human evolution in specific , you would be amazed at what we DO know .""",DISAGREE,"""I do not believe in the `` missing link `` of Evolution where humans came from monkey 's .""","""And where does the 'Theory of Evolution ' say that Man came from monkeys ? That is a very inaccurate statement .""",,
30337,7967,"""Won ’ t a .22 penetrate easer due to its smaller size ? Don ’ t for get to ban the weapon that will go through all soft armor , of any rating , a knife ! !""","""Just like the plastic gun fear , the armour piercing bullet fear was built upon misinformation and myth .""",AGREE,"""Don ’ t for get to ban the weapon that will go through all soft armor , of any rating , a knife !""","""Just like the plastic gun fear , the armour piercing bullet fear was built upon misinformation and myth""",,
30351,7969,"""Here is a good reason to ban magazines that can hold a lot of bullets . '' A gunman walked into a military hospital clinic at Fairchild Air Force Base where he killed four people and wounded 21 others using a Chinese-made MAK-90 semi-automatic assault rifle .... Spokane County Sheriff Larry Erickson called the semi-automatic assault rifle a 'mankiller ' and claimed it is likely far fewer people would have been hurt had another weapon been used . 'This [ gun ] gave him the capability to fire as fast as he could pull the trigger . And that 's a lot of rounds when you 've got a 50-round magazine . ' '' http : //feinstein.senate.gov/assault-weapons-support.htm""","""OK you have convinced me high capacity magazines are the root cause of crime . Senator Feinstein , she has a concealed weapon permit and is licensed to carry a gun .""",DISAGREE,"""[ gun ] gave him the capability to fire as fast as he could pull the trigger""","""you have convinced me high capacity magazines are the root cause of crime .""",,
30373,7973,"""Did I ever say that ?""","""say what ? i am just saying that i can tell you are a good person .""",AGREE,"""Did I ever say that ?""","""say what ?""",,
30377,7981,"""Matt Speckman , a former Turlock police sergeant , used to be in charge of processing concealed gun permits . Now retired , he 'd like one himself . '' I 'm not a gun nut , `` Speckman said . '' But I 've been involved in investigations of people now getting paroled who have probably been throwing darts at my picture in their cells. `` Speckman , 49 , attended the FBI academy , trained at a nationally recognized firearms course , earned an MBA , is studying for a Ph.D , toted a gun for 30 years and screened gun permit applicants for seven years . Yet Turlock Police Chief Gary Hampton and Sheriff Adam Christianson , both of whom have approved gun permits for politicians and prominent businessmen , turned him down . Speckman since has moved from Turlock and says he does n't obsess about his safety . But reports about people who find favor with law enforcement executives despite relative lack of experience , he says , point up the arbitrary nature of concealed gun permits in California , where many agencies endure charges of political favoritism . As commander of his former department 's internal affairs , Speckman once investigated a former officer whose resignation was demanded in lieu of firing , he said . But Christianson approved a permit for the former officer two weeks before denying Speckman 's , he said . Having been on the other side , Speckman said he understands the heavy burden of determining good cause . What if someone granted a permit uses a gun recklessly ? On the other hand , what if someone denied a permit later is harmed ? '' I understand the need for case by case ( discretion ) , `` he said . '' But the intent of the law is that someone who has more chance of being victimized should be given a permit . '' It 's just gotten to the point where I wish there were something a little bit more standard. `` He 's experienced firsthand the threats that can follow people who work in the judicial system . That 's one reason the list of people who have concealed weapons permits in Stanislaus County contains judges , deputy district attorneys and retired police officers . In 1991 , two men broke into Speckman 's home when he was away and met him at the front door when he returned -- armed with his own handgun . He was ordered face-down on the front lawn . '' ( The gunman ) said , 'You 're going to learn to die execution-style , ' `` Speckman recalled , and fired two or three rounds into the grass before fleeing . The men later were arrested , sent to prison and paroled . Although Speckman since has moved , neighbors told him they twice saw the gunman lurking around his former home . Sheriffs and police chiefs in California generally observe a court standard requiring them to judge a concealed weapon applicant 's `` good moral character `` and `` good cause. `` It 's among a minority of `` may issue `` states , while adults meeting lower standards for buying firearms can get permits for the asking in 37 `` shall issue `` states ; Alaska and Vermont allow people to carry concealed weapons without permits . Neither Christianson nor Hampton could be reached Friday , the same day a Bee article noted that Hampton takes political office into account when issuing permits . Two of seven he 's approved are held by Turlock City Council members . Speckman said Hampton refused to consider his application when his one-year permit expired a year after he retired , and referred him to the sheriff 's office , which has licensed 52 Turlock residents . '' You do not meet our criteria for issuance , `` reads Christianson 's June rejection letter to Speckman . Speckman said he knew nothing about Hampton 's unique request in 2008 to the sheriff asking him not to issue permits to Turlock residents without first sending them to Turlock police , until reading about it in recent Bee stories . Hampton 's request came about the time Speckman retired ; Christianson this week indicated he respects the request but retains authority to ignore it . No one in Christianson 's office said anything about the Turlock arrangement , Speckman said . So he took a $ 100 firearms refresher course and paid $ 108 in permit fees only to be turned away , he said . '' No one said to me , 'We do n't do Turlock ; do n't waste your money because we 're going to deny it , ' `` he said . Sheriff Adam Christianson is scheduled to address the issue of concealed weapon permits in a meeting of the Madison Society Foundation at 7 p.m. Monday in the Stanislaus County Library , 1500 I St. , Modesto .""","""So what 's the deal here ? California wo n't even trust its own officers to do the concealed carry thing , and that 's considered a reasonable way of doing things ?""",AGREE,"""`` Yet Turlock Police Chief Gary Hampton and Sheriff Adam Christianson , both of whom have approved gun permits for politicians and prominent businessmen , turned him down .""","""California wo n't even trust its own officers to do the concealed carry thing , and that 's considered a reasonable way of doing things ?""",,
30379,7981,"""Matt Speckman , a former Turlock police sergeant , used to be in charge of processing concealed gun permits . Now retired , he 'd like one himself . '' I 'm not a gun nut , `` Speckman said . '' But I 've been involved in investigations of people now getting paroled who have probably been throwing darts at my picture in their cells. `` Speckman , 49 , attended the FBI academy , trained at a nationally recognized firearms course , earned an MBA , is studying for a Ph.D , toted a gun for 30 years and screened gun permit applicants for seven years . Yet Turlock Police Chief Gary Hampton and Sheriff Adam Christianson , both of whom have approved gun permits for politicians and prominent businessmen , turned him down . Speckman since has moved from Turlock and says he does n't obsess about his safety . But reports about people who find favor with law enforcement executives despite relative lack of experience , he says , point up the arbitrary nature of concealed gun permits in California , where many agencies endure charges of political favoritism . As commander of his former department 's internal affairs , Speckman once investigated a former officer whose resignation was demanded in lieu of firing , he said . But Christianson approved a permit for the former officer two weeks before denying Speckman 's , he said . Having been on the other side , Speckman said he understands the heavy burden of determining good cause . What if someone granted a permit uses a gun recklessly ? On the other hand , what if someone denied a permit later is harmed ? '' I understand the need for case by case ( discretion ) , `` he said . '' But the intent of the law is that someone who has more chance of being victimized should be given a permit . '' It 's just gotten to the point where I wish there were something a little bit more standard. `` He 's experienced firsthand the threats that can follow people who work in the judicial system . That 's one reason the list of people who have concealed weapons permits in Stanislaus County contains judges , deputy district attorneys and retired police officers . In 1991 , two men broke into Speckman 's home when he was away and met him at the front door when he returned -- armed with his own handgun . He was ordered face-down on the front lawn . '' ( The gunman ) said , 'You 're going to learn to die execution-style , ' `` Speckman recalled , and fired two or three rounds into the grass before fleeing . The men later were arrested , sent to prison and paroled . Although Speckman since has moved , neighbors told him they twice saw the gunman lurking around his former home . Sheriffs and police chiefs in California generally observe a court standard requiring them to judge a concealed weapon applicant 's `` good moral character `` and `` good cause. `` It 's among a minority of `` may issue `` states , while adults meeting lower standards for buying firearms can get permits for the asking in 37 `` shall issue `` states ; Alaska and Vermont allow people to carry concealed weapons without permits . Neither Christianson nor Hampton could be reached Friday , the same day a Bee article noted that Hampton takes political office into account when issuing permits . Two of seven he 's approved are held by Turlock City Council members . Speckman said Hampton refused to consider his application when his one-year permit expired a year after he retired , and referred him to the sheriff 's office , which has licensed 52 Turlock residents . '' You do not meet our criteria for issuance , `` reads Christianson 's June rejection letter to Speckman . Speckman said he knew nothing about Hampton 's unique request in 2008 to the sheriff asking him not to issue permits to Turlock residents without first sending them to Turlock police , until reading about it in recent Bee stories . Hampton 's request came about the time Speckman retired ; Christianson this week indicated he respects the request but retains authority to ignore it . No one in Christianson 's office said anything about the Turlock arrangement , Speckman said . So he took a $ 100 firearms refresher course and paid $ 108 in permit fees only to be turned away , he said . '' No one said to me , 'We do n't do Turlock ; do n't waste your money because we 're going to deny it , ' `` he said . Sheriff Adam Christianson is scheduled to address the issue of concealed weapon permits in a meeting of the Madison Society Foundation at 7 p.m. Monday in the Stanislaus County Library , 1500 I St. , Modesto .""","""So what 's the deal here ? California wo n't even trust its own officers to do the concealed carry thing , and that 's considered a reasonable way of doing things ?""",AGREE,"""Sheriff Adam Christianson is scheduled to address the issue of concealed weapon permits in a meeting""","""the concealed carry thing , and that 's considered a reasonable way of doing things""",,
30393,7986,"""true , but do you see a diffrence in consentual acts and forced acts ?""","""Yes and can you see there is so many things that are consensual liek polygamy , under age sex , prostitution .""",DISAGREE,"""true , but do you see a diffrence in consentual acts and forced acts ?""","""Yes""",,
30408,7996,"""On this 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision , I would like to share my views on the issue of abortion . Life begins at the point of conception . No one can deny that after a human being is conceived it will develop into the very same being as those debating this issue . What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death . Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence ? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions . They prefer their own pleasurable self-indulgence over the care and sanctity of the life they created . What ever happened to taking responsibility for one 's actions in this country ? Is it too much to ask a woman who has conceived to place the child into adoption ? Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter ! Does the father of the child have a say in this ? And what about the constitution of the United States ? Are not all people conceived in this country deserving of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness ? I believe abortion is a crime against humanity and should be outlawed . We need to overturn the Roe v. Wade decision and get back to cherishing life in this country . For a country that murders it 's children can not be far from self destruction .""","""You have some good points here , but what do you do in the event of pregnancy due to rape ? Or a pregnancy that is going to put the life of the mother at risk ? And to push the line a bit further , what about failed contraception , where the 'morning after ' pill is taken ? Does that count as abortion as it happens after conception ? Smiley""",AGREE,"""What astounds me is that those who favor abortion went through an identical development stage as the being they are condemning to death . Would these very same people agree that a similiar choice should have been made about their own existence ? Abortion today is used primarily as a birth control of convenience because people are too self-centered to take precautions .""","""You have some good points here""",,
30424,7999,"""Why not read `` The Science of Consciousness—The Next Scientific Paradigm `` by William A. Guillory , Ph.D. which states in part ... `` The Science of Consciousness is essentially the study of the non-material world . It is the study of metaphysical phenomena that , for the most part , are not subject to the theories and laws of Newtonian-Cartesian science . However , the human implications of the results of studying consciousness , beyond the physical realm , are immense. `` http : //creativityandinquiry.org/Scie ... ciousness.html Consciousness is non-material . Perhaps reading `` Empirical Evidence for the Non-Material Nature of Consciousness `` by Juleon M. Schins might shed some light .""","""Why not tell us in your own words , since you have made such claims ? If all of your sources agree with you , then they are not relevant to the debate . Let 's assume ever source you name agrees with your point of view , and from there , you can answer the questions . -Mach""",DISAGREE,"""The Science of Consciousness is essentially the study of the non-material world . It is the study of metaphysical phenomena that , for the most part , are not subject to the theories and laws of Newtonian-Cartesian science . However , the human implications of the results of studying consciousness , beyond the physical realm , are immense. ``""","""Why not tell us in your own words , since you have made such claims ?""",,
30454,8010,"""( Evolution is a series of highly likely events ) Evolution simply put , is the creation story for secular humanists and nothing more , which in and among itself if fine - I do n't personally care if believe we evolved from Mountain Dew , but do n't try to pass that off as fact when there is substantial evidence that says otherwise .""","""On the contrary , there is no evidence to suggest that we have not evolved via common descent . Not in any living creature thus far examined , or any fossil thus far unearthed . We are obliged to seek out evolutionary mechanisms precisely because the fact that it has happened is beyond all doubt .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution simply put , is the creation story for secular humanists and nothing more , which in and among itself if fine - I do n't personally care if believe we evolved from Mountain Dew , but do n't try to pass that off as fact when there is substantial evidence that says otherwise .""","""On the contrary , there is no evidence to suggest that we have not evolved via common""",,
30456,8010,"""( Evolution is a series of highly likely events ) Evolution simply put , is the creation story for secular humanists and nothing more , which in and among itself if fine - I do n't personally care if believe we evolved from Mountain Dew , but do n't try to pass that off as fact when there is substantial evidence that says otherwise .""","""On the contrary , there is no evidence to suggest that we have not evolved via common descent . Not in any living creature thus far examined , or any fossil thus far unearthed . We are obliged to seek out evolutionary mechanisms precisely because the fact that it has happened is beyond all doubt .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution simply put , is the creation story for secular humanists and nothing more ,""","""there is no evidence to suggest that we have not evolved via common descent .""",,
30465,8011,"""Why do suppose exaggeration and embellishment or an aversion to facts is necessary for some people who consider themselves pro life or at least anti choice ?""","""You can try and deny the facts all you like . Here they are from the CDC for 2003 , go spin them .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do suppose exaggeration and embellishment or an aversion to facts is necessary for some people who consider themselves pro life or at least anti choice ?""","""You can try and deny the facts all you like . Here they are from the CDC for 2003 , go spin them .""",,
30472,8012,"""The original 1921 report , written by Dr. Arthur Smith Woodward says this :  “ The skull is in a remarkably fresh state of preservation , the bone having merely lost its animal matter and not having been in the least mineralized. ” Â….The occupation of the cave , therefore , seems to have been at no distant date – it may not even have been so remote as the Pleistocene period. ” -- this period ends 11,000 years ago .""","""Woodward was a fraud , and I recall that was actually about the Piltdown man . You 're confusing your hominids . I 'm not surprised your site says so . Confusing one homind for another and citing a known fraud maker .""",DISAGREE,"""The original 1921 report , written by Dr. Arthur Smith Woodward says this :  The skull is in a remarkably fresh state of preservation , the bone having merely lost its animal matter and not having been in the least""","""Woodward was a fraud , and I recall that was actually about the Piltdown man . You 're confusing your hominids .""",,
30514,8016,"""Originally posted by wjim1269 # 1 ) Could you please tell me where that argument was posted ? I ca n't find it . # 2 ) Gun control does n't take guns from the criminals . It just tacks on another offense when they use them . Maybe that argument is n't the best , but it shows that gun control is actually useless .""","""It 's posted here in another thread at http : //www.youdebate.com/vBulletin/s ... 5 & amp ; pagenumber=3 The car/gun analogy keeps being brought up . Kelvin has n't addressed the objections to the car/gun analogy . When you only look at the the things that support your point of view and ignore other things that do n't support your point of view then it 's pretty easy to reach the conclusion you want .""",DISAGREE,"""tell me where that argument was posted ? Maybe that argument is n't the best""","""The car/gun analogy keeps being brought up .""",,
30513,8016,"""Originally posted by wjim1269 # 1 ) Could you please tell me where that argument was posted ? I ca n't find it . # 2 ) Gun control does n't take guns from the criminals . It just tacks on another offense when they use them . Maybe that argument is n't the best , but it shows that gun control is actually useless .""","""It 's posted here in another thread at http : //www.youdebate.com/vBulletin/s ... 5 & amp ; pagenumber=3 The car/gun analogy keeps being brought up . Kelvin has n't addressed the objections to the car/gun analogy . When you only look at the the things that support your point of view and ignore other things that do n't support your point of view then it 's pretty easy to reach the conclusion you want .""",DISAGREE,"""Gun control does n't take guns from the criminals . It just tacks on another offense when they use them .""","""The car/gun analogy keeps being brought up . Kelvin has n't addressed the objections to the car/gun analogy""",,
30521,8017,"""Its really sad what these gay predator priests did to those children and they should be punished to the full extent of the law ...""","""Yep , homosexuals join to practice a religion that hates them just so they can gain access to children . I mean , so much for joining any of those adult dating services ... I suppose becoming a priest is much easier . When will Christians such as yourself learn to stop spinning the story for your own hate agenda upon gays ? Have you ever heard of accountability ?""",AGREE,"""these gay predator priests did to those children they should be punished""","""homosexuals join to practice a religion that hates them""",,
30530,8018,"""Yes , it is interesting how we draw an arbitary `` legal line in the sand `` with regards to determining how late into a pregnancy an elective abortion is available .""","""But how can we make rules without legal lines in sand ? At least its better than an illegal line .""",DISAGREE,"""it is interesting how we draw an arbitary `` legal line in the sand""","""But how can we make rules without legal lines in sand ?""",,
30533,8018,"""Yes , it is interesting how we draw an arbitary `` legal line in the sand `` with regards to determining how late into a pregnancy an elective abortion is available .""","""But how can we make rules without legal lines in sand ? At least its better than an illegal line .""",DISAGREE,"""it is interesting how we draw an arbitary `` legal line in the sand `` with regards to determining how late into a pregnancy an elective abortion is available .""","""how can we make rules without legal lines in sand ? At least its better than an illegal line .""",,
30549,8020,"""hi ! We are 2 dutch students and we dont get why almost everybody here want 's a gun . In the Netherlands having a gun is a crime . And we think thats really good , cause you see the results in the US . Kids killing each other with daddy 's gun , and we think that when you own a gun the proberbility to use it is always much closer then when you do n't own a gun . A lot of people feel safer when they have got a gun in their home , cause then you always can use it , even when you are drunk or something like that . And you are always thinking about : `` when should i use my gun `` . So . people do n't buy a gun ! what 's the use ? ! Just make sure that you do'nt get in any problems . Greets , Joszi ( age:16 ) Bram ( age:16 ) Nijmegen , The Netherlands ( best country to live )""","""I know at least one person from the Netherlands who owns a pistol . Are you sure that it is ENTIRELY illegal to own a firearm , or is it possible to obtain a permit for one ? Also , the whole `` school shooting `` business in the US is not really any sort of major problem . The thing is , the media reports every single incident making it seem more common than it really is . As far as uses for a gun : In the US lots of people live in rural areas where it could take police about an hour , or even longer , to respond . People in that situation can not rely on police protection . In addition , our police force is NOT obligated to serve as a protection force for citizens . Instead , our police are supposed to solve crimes after they occur . People in the US grew up with firearms and shooting sports . Hunting , trap and skeet , and target shooting are important parts of American culture . In fact , our government thought it was so important for citizens to be able to use firearms that they created the Civilian Marksmanship Program ( CMP ) . The CMP sells high-powered military surplus rifles at cost , to US citizens . Joszi and Bram , what experience with firearms do you have ? Maybe a day at the range would change your opinions . pickleweaseler -- The US of A ( the REAL best country to live [ in ] )""",DISAGREE,"""why almost everybody here want 's a In the Netherlands having a gun is a ,""","""I know at least one person from the Netherlands who owns a pistol . Are you sure that it is ENTIRELY illegal to own a firearm , or is it possible to obtain a permit for one ?""",,
30577,8024,"""Sixth , they push their illicit agenda into every corner of America . Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them .""","""Just have to say something on this . If the boy scouts didnt receive federal support and get special deals from the government then they would be able to exclude whoever they want . However since they often hold their meetings in public schools for free and rent public lands for discounted price or even sometimes for free they can not discriminate against gays and atheists . So they have to make a choice .""",DISAGREE,"""Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them .""","""If the boy scouts didnt receive federal support and get special deals from the government then they would be able to exclude whoever they want .""",,
30589,8027,"""Originally posted by Debater Did man descend from a blob of life ? If so how ?""","""Well , on 03-14-2003 01:04 PM you said :""",DISAGREE,"""Did man descend from a blob of life ?""","""Well , on 03-14-2003 01:04 PM you said :""",,
30588,8027,"""Originally posted by Debater Did man descend from a blob of life ? If so how ?""","""Well , on 03-14-2003 01:04 PM you said :""",DISAGREE,"""Debater Did man descend from a blob of life""","""on 03-14-2003 01:04 PM""",,
30595,8028,"""because they are selfish or just are n't ready for kids , well if you 're not ready for kids than you should have used protection .""","""Well they did n't . That 's a nice proclamation , but it 's a little late . Perhaps you would fight for better sex education ?""",DISAGREE,"""because they are selfish or just are n't ready for kids , well if you 're not ready for kids than you should have used protection .""","""Well they did n't""",,
30600,8030,"""I ask you , Sir , how is the freedom of speech and/or the defense of property , or any other right , for that matter , to be maintained without arms ?""","""I have never said anything about not defending it through armed force . I just don ` t believe that you need an armed populace .""",DISAGREE,"""I ask you , Sir , how is the freedom of speech and/or the defense of property , or any other right , for that matter , to be maintained without arms ?""","""I have never said anything about not defending it through armed force . I just don t believe that you need an armed populace .""",,
30614,8031,"""In principle , there is no difference between the two as the result is the same , a dead baby . I 've always disliked this line of logic because it implies that the value of somebody 's life depends on their relative accomplishments and it invites the counter argument that the unborn in question could also become a criminal . Indeed , it has been argued that abortion has reduced crime , poverty , overpopulation and the depletion of natural resources .""","""Indeed there is no diffrence it is still a dead baby but throwing a baby in a trash can and leaving it for dead is far more cruel than abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""there is no difference between the two as the result is the same , a dead baby abortion""","""Indeed there is no diffrence it is still a dead baby throwing a baby in a trash can and leaving it for dead is far more cruel than abortion .""",,
30627,8032,"""What are you talking about ample time ? I starting following this tread last afternoon ? What is your point ? 1 ) Did the NRA and KKK ever burn a cross together ? 2 ) Does Lockheed Martin in Colorado build nukes , missiles , and bombs ? 3 ) Did Chuck Heston ever say `` From my cold dead hands in Denver `` ? 4 ) How many edits does it take to make a point ? If it is a documentry then why minipulate a speech ? 1 ) That is a cartoon ? Do you believe in cartoons ? My nephew believes that things he sees in Bugs Bunny is real . Do you ? Moore manufactured a monster from the NRA . You were manipulated .""","""You answered the first one already ... it is a 'cartoon ' . It showed that just as one was out-lawed , the other was born . You decide what to believe from this . By the way ... `` Lockheed Martin is a global leader in the design , development and production of missiles and missile defense solutions for the United States and its allies around the world . The goal : Defend against attacks by ballistic missiles , cruise missiles and other airborne threats. `` http : //www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi ... =0 & amp ; ti=0 & amp ; sc=400""",DISAGREE,"""Did the NRA and KKK ever burn a cross together ? 2 ) Does Lockheed Martin in Colorado build nukes , missiles , and bombs ?""","""You answered the first one already ... it is a 'cartoon ' . It showed that just as one was out-lawed , the other was born""",,
30620,8032,"""What are you talking about ample time ? I starting following this tread last afternoon ? What is your point ? 1 ) Did the NRA and KKK ever burn a cross together ? 2 ) Does Lockheed Martin in Colorado build nukes , missiles , and bombs ? 3 ) Did Chuck Heston ever say `` From my cold dead hands in Denver `` ? 4 ) How many edits does it take to make a point ? If it is a documentry then why minipulate a speech ? 1 ) That is a cartoon ? Do you believe in cartoons ? My nephew believes that things he sees in Bugs Bunny is real . Do you ? Moore manufactured a monster from the NRA . You were manipulated .""","""You answered the first one already ... it is a 'cartoon ' . It showed that just as one was out-lawed , the other was born . You decide what to believe from this . By the way ... `` Lockheed Martin is a global leader in the design , development and production of missiles and missile defense solutions for the United States and its allies around the world . The goal : Defend against attacks by ballistic missiles , cruise missiles and other airborne threats. `` http : //www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi ... =0 & amp ; ti=0 & amp ; sc=400""",DISAGREE,"""Lockheed Martin in Colorado build nukes , missiles , and bombs ?""","""Martin is a global leader in the design , development and production of missiles and missile defense solutions""",,
30634,8033,"""Premise 1 : God lives in another universe ( Heaven ) and therefore can not be detected in this universe . ( Definition of God ) Premise 2 : If something exists , then it can be detected/sensed . ( Definition of Existence ) Contrapositive of Premise 2 : If something can not be detected/sensed , then it does not exist . Conclusion : God does not exist . The reason that this doens't prove Atheism is that it can not disprove the existence of , say , the Hindu gods , which are defined as beings in this world that can be seen . It just disproves theism .""","""I hate to break this to you but this is racked with illogic . Well , ok it 's `` logical `` but the premises rely on things that are pure assumptions . Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist . And , of course , if god is god the way we think about it , then God is everywhere , including in this universe . He is the universe ( but we ca n't detect him ) . Does he exist now or not ?""",DISAGREE,"""God lives in another universe ( Heaven ) and therefore can not be detected in this universe .""","""I hate to break this to you but this is racked with illogic . Well , ok it 's `` logical `` but the premises rely on things that are pure assumptions . Just because something ca n't be detected does n't mean that it does n't exist .""",,
30654,8035,"""argue with the pro-choicers ... I do n't agree with what the women says because she agrues for pro-choice .""","""Your misrepresentation does n't make it so .""",DISAGREE,"""argue with the pro-choicers""","""Your misrepresentation does n't make it so .""",,
30665,8036,"""Sorry , I also meant to talk about safety , not control . But I don´t think that zero-gun-tolerance at schools would be a conflict to gun-safety courses . If the teachers of this subject start with something like `` I´ll tell you about safety but a gun is evil , evil ! '' , then it there would be much sense . Imo the goal of the subject had to be that children know about the dangers of guns . Idiotic parents forget to keep away their guns from kids too often . At least the kids should know about that `` chrome toy on the table `` .""","""Idiotic anti gun/gun control advocates that make remarks about guns being evil are the problem . All of this hatred for an item that does nothing until a person picks it up ! Cars as with guns do nothing until a person operates them . Cars kill far more kids then guns and yet do teachers tell kids cars are evil ? No ! In fact we have an entire business around advertisements to make kids want to buy these deadly cars . More kids die daily while driving to school then from guns and there is not demand for this deadly practice to be stopped . The cost to school districts to make parking facilities for these deadly cars is another burden people pay to make kids want to buy deadly cars . When will there be a demand for car free zones at schools ?""",DISAGREE,"""I don´t think that zero-gun-tolerance at schools would be a conflict to gun-safety courses""","""Idiotic anti gun/gun control advocates that make remarks about guns being evil are the problem .""",,
30678,8039,"""It 's a result of Dr. Pepper , Cheetos , microwave popcorn , macaroni and cheese , hot dogs , pretzels , gum drops , high fructose corn syrup , flavors , colorings , transfats etc etc etc .......""","""Make up your mind . Is it because of diet or is it because of evolution . It would be nice if you pick a horse and ride it .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's a result of Dr. Pepper , Cheetos , microwave popcorn , macaroni and cheese , hot dogs , pretzels , gum drops , high fructose corn syrup , flavors , colorings , transfats etc etc etc .......""","""Make up your mind . Is it because of diet or is it because of evolution . It would be nice if you pick a horse and ride it .""",,
30679,8040,"""Faced with an increasingly vocal populace that is questioning evolution , museums across the United States have begun training their staff and volunteers to become better proponents of evolution while tripping up  “ irrational ” supporters of the Bible ’ s history of Earth .""","""Damn straight it 's irrational .""",AGREE,"""Faced with an increasingly vocal populace that is questioning evolution , museums across the United States have begun training their staff""","""Damn straight it 's irrational .""",,
30714,8046,"""Of course , no species of coelacanth living today is like the ones found in the fossil record . The fossil coelacanths are small , freshwater fish . The ones living today are large , deep ocean fish . The whole creationist position on coelacanths is based on the misconception that these fish have not evolved . But they are greatly evolved from their ancestors .""","""Phil S : Does n't it get tedious seeing the same creationist arguments rehashed over & amp ; over again ? Willful ignorance is so irritating . A person has to pray very hard to keep their mind closed to anything they might learn from these debates .""",AGREE,"""The fossil coelacanths are small , freshwater fish The whole creationist position on coelacanths is based on the misconception that these fish have not evolved .""","""Willful ignorance is so irritating""",,
30732,8048,"""I found it interesting that you got your information from talkorigins.com . They totally do not know what they are talking about .... Other articles employ what is known as the `` straw man `` argument tactic , i.e . using an argument that can be easily refuted and one that is not held by anyone .""","""And this is known as an ad hominem . What is wrong with the information that I presented in my first post in this thread ? Going off on tangents about SNR 's and information theory may be good topics for another thread , but they are n't helping you here .""",DISAGREE,"""Other articles employ what is known as the `` straw man `` argument tactic , i.e . using an argument that can be easily refuted and one that is not held by anyone .""","""What is wrong with the information that I presented in my first post in this thread ?""",,
30735,8049,"""Mankind succesfully creates religion and the idea of a `` god `` or higher being or creator and such . Man is not a product of `` god `` but rather `` god `` is a product of mankind ! ! ! the idea of god was a result of a wandering and curious mind that lacked the technology to gain information about the universe that he lives in , and nothing more . The bible the same thing , a collection of ideas and stories brought up by a wondering human mind that lacked info and the tech need to gain it ! ! !""","""You mean you equate the Bible with your own theory ? ( which is lacking information ) .""",DISAGREE,"""bible the same thing , a collection of ideas and stories brought up by a wondering human mind""","""equate the Bible with your own theory""",,
30750,8050,"""By definition , scientific enquiry arrives at hypotheses after gathering evidence from observations and experiment . Any law , knowledge , etc . that is arrived at by scientific method is open to modification or falsification if new evidence comes to light that must be taken into account . All science in this sense is provisional .""","""Sigh . You defend your version of science by re-stating the definition of your version of science . That is circular reasoning . If you read anything on the history of science you will know that your version is but one of many . Isaac Newton sought out the hand of God , through science . He is a prime example of what I mean . He thought differently about science than you ... as science could be used as a tool for furthering his understanding of God .""",DISAGREE,"""All science in this sense is provisional""","""That is circular reasoning""",,
30757,8056,"""How it so called proven ?""","""Via something called `` evidence `` . It is something that a creationist will never have come across , thus explaining why you are unaware of it .""",DISAGREE,"""How it so called proven""","""It is something that a creationist will never have come across , thus explaining why you are unaware of it""",,
30783,8069,"""That 's a badge of honor , IMO .""","""Because ... 1 ) that Texas has a higher rate of violent crime ? 2 ) that Texas fails to prevent such crimes ? 3 ) that Texas sees a huge fisical deficit from such cases ? Strange sense of honor you got there .""",DISAGREE,"""That 's a badge of honor , IMO .""","""Because ... 1 ) that Texas has a higher rate of violent crime ? 2 ) that Texas fails to prevent such crimes ? 3 ) that Texas sees a huge fisical deficit from such cases ?""",,
30785,8069,"""That 's a badge of honor , IMO .""","""Because ... 1 ) that Texas has a higher rate of violent crime ? 2 ) that Texas fails to prevent such crimes ? 3 ) that Texas sees a huge fisical deficit from such cases ? Strange sense of honor you got there .""",DISAGREE,"""That 's a badge of honor , IMO .""","""that Texas has a higher rate of violent crime ?""",,
30811,8074,"""In this case , I have to agree with you . We 're talking about the most absolute bizarrely liberal ( to the point of absurdity ) place in the country . The idea of 'rights ' has gotten dog-gone crazy there . . . they even regulate the nutritional content of food for pets , and require dog-houses have raised floors in them . They 've basically done away with a number of illegal drug laws . They 're working to BAN handgun ownership altogether . ( One has to wonder how we can take their insistence of gay marriage as being constitutional seriously when they are trying to completely ignore the 2nd Amendment ! ) Despite their liberal regulatory fanaticism , it 's actually a very beautiful place to visit !""","""It use to be a beautiful city and great liberty for a navy man ................ I was at Treasure Island in the early sixties waiting for a flight from Travis AFB to Subic bay in the PI ....... Spent a week there .... Had a great time ......... You would not recognize the place now ..........""",AGREE,"""In this case , I have to agree with you . We 're talking about the most absolute bizarrely liberal ( to the point of absurdity ) place in the country . The idea of 'rights ' has gotten dog-gone crazy there . . . they even regulate the nutritional content of food for pets , and require dog-houses have raised floors in them . They 've basically done away with a number of illegal drug laws . They 're working to BAN handgun ownership altogether""","""It use to be a beautiful city and great liberty for a navy man""",,
30827,8077,"""I am fairly certain no `` afterlife `` exists .""","""Been there , done that , right ? I wish I could die and come back to life like that .""",DISAGREE,"""I am fairly certain no `` afterlife `` exists""","""done that , right ? I wish I could die and come back to life like that .""",,
30828,8077,"""I am fairly certain no `` afterlife `` exists .""","""Been there , done that , right ? I wish I could die and come back to life like that .""",DISAGREE,"""certain no `` afterlife `` exists""","""I wish I could die and come back to life like that .""",,
30841,8080,"""The Pro-Choice Democrats do n't love born people that much , either . Our representatives are signed , sealed and delivered over to the health insurance industry . Displayed concern just a vehicle for ruthless , driven greed and profit .""","""Just so ! ! We are witnessing an arrogant display of the power that money has over the Congress in Big Health 's attempt to scuttle health care reform . My two Blue Dog Democratic Senators refuse to stick their necks out and take a stand . If JFK were writing today , he would have a new book called Profiles in Cowardice , and my two Senators would make up the first two chapters .""",AGREE,"""The Pro-Choice Democrats do n't love born people that much , either . Our representatives are signed , sealed and delivered over to the health insurance""","""Just so ! ! We are witnessing an arrogant display of the power that money has over the Congress in Big Health 's attempt to scuttle health care reform .""",,
30851,8082,"""If the child is to be born into a poverty stricken part of the world and is expected to die by the age of 7 by either disease or lack of food , why not spare pain and abort ?""","""Hey ! Let 's murder hanicapped people ! Their health will deteriorate and probably will die in pain later on , so let 's just rip of their limbs without them knowing ! Eh ? Sounds good ?""",DISAGREE,"""and abort ?""","""Sounds good ?""",,
30858,8084,"""Court : Seattle police OK to stun pregnant woman By GENE JOHNSON & # 8232 ; ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER SEATTLE -- Three Seattle police officers were justified when they used a stun gun on a pregnant mother who refused to sign a traffic ticket , a federal appeals court ruled Friday in a case that prompted an incredulous dissent . Malaika Brooks was driving her son to Seattle 's African American Academy in 2004 when she was stopped for doing 32 mph in a school zone . She insisted it was the car in front of her that was speeding , and refused to sign the ticket because she thought she 'd be admitting guilt . Rather than give her the ticket and let her go on her way , the officers decided to arrest her . One reached in , turned off her car and dropped the keys on the floor . Brooks stiffened her arms against the steering wheel and told the officers she was pregnant , but refused to get out , even after they threatened to stun her . The officers - Sgt . Steven Daman , Officer Juan Ornelas and Officer Donald Jones - then stunned her three times , in the thigh , shoulder and neck , and hauled her out of the car , laying her face-down in the street . Brooks gave birth to a healthy baby two months later , but has permanent scars from the Taser . She sued the officers for violating her constitutional rights , and U.S. District Judge Richard Jones allowed the case to continue . He declined to grant the officers immunity for performing their official duties and said Brooks ' rights were clearly violated . But in a 2-1 ruling Friday , a panel of the 9th U.S . Circuit Court of Appeals disagreed . Judges Cynthia Holcomb Hall and Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain held that the officers were justified in making an arrest because Brooks was obstructing them and resisting arrest . The use of force was also justified because of the threat Brooks posed , Hall wrote : `` It seems clear that Brooks was not going to be able to harm anyone with her car at a moment 's notice . Nonetheless , some threat she might retrieve the keys and drive off erratically remained , particularly given her refusal to leave the car and her state of agitation. `` They also noted that the force used was n't that serious because the Taser was in `` touch `` mode rather than `` dart `` mode , which hurts more . They reversed the lower court 's opinion and held that the officers were entitled to immunity from the lawsuit . The officers ' lawyers , Ted Buck and Karen Cobb , said the officers made the right decision under the circumstances they faced . '' Police officers have to have the ability to compel people to obey their lawful orders , `` Buck said . That 's all the court recognized today . The 9th Circuit just applied the law instead of getting caught up in the otherwise unfortunate factual circumstances. `` The majority 's opinion outraged Judge Marsha Berzon , who called it `` off the wall. `` '' I fail utterly to comprehend how my colleagues are able to conclude that it was objectively reasonable to use any force against Brooks , let alone three activations of a Taser , in response to such a trivial offense , `` she wrote . She argued that under Washington law , the officers had no authority to take Brooks into custody : Failure to sign a traffic infraction is not an arrestable offense , and it 's not illegal to resist an unlawful arrest . Berzon said the majority 's notion that Brooks obstructed officers was so far-fetched that even the officers themselves did n't make that legal argument . To obstruct an officer , one must obstruct the officer 's official duties , and the officers ' only duties in this case were to detain Brooks long enough to identify her , check for warrants , write up the citation and give it to her . Brooks ' failure to sign did not interfere with those duties , she said . Furthermore , Brooks posed no apparent threat , and the officers could not have known how stunning her would affect the fetus , or whether it might prompt premature labor - another reason their actions were inexcusable , Berzon said . Brooks ' lawyer , Eric Zubel , said he would ask the 9th Circuit to rehear the case . '' This is outrageous - that something like this could happen to a pregnant woman , in front of an elementary school , at 8:30 in the morning , to someone who posed no threat whatsoever , `` he said .""","""For anti-choicers , it 's just about control and power over women . They do n't care about life . ( Except their own . ) This same mother could be a person who did n't have access to pre-natal care . They would n't defend that right either . Because they DO N'T care about the fetus . They do n't care about life . They do n't care about health . They care about power and money and pushing people around . That 's all .""",AGREE,"""Court : Seattle police OK to stun pregnant woman By GENE JOHNSON & # ; ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER SEATTLE -- Three Seattle police officers were justified when they used a stun gun on a pregnant mother who refused to sign a traffic ticket , a federal appeals court ruled Friday in a case that prompted an incredulous dissent . Malaika Brooks was driving her son to Seattle 's African American Academy in 2004 when she was stopped for doing 32 mph in a school zone . She insisted it was the car in front of her that was speeding , and refused to sign the ticket because she thought she 'd be admitting guilt . ''""","""For anti-choicers , it 's just about control and power over women . They do n't care about""",,
30863,8085,"""Men should n't be deciding because they ca n't get pregnant after being raped .""","""Actually they ca n't ever get pregnant .""",AGREE,"""they ca n't get pregnant""","""they ca n't ever get pregnant .""",,
30866,8086,"""They 'll show up whenever they 're good and ready . The life of an individual is n't first priority to the police .""","""Until you have chosen to stand in uniform between the criminal element and the law abiding in our communities ; until you have felt the anguish of attending a funeral service for a fallen brother , until you have felt the helplessness and shed tears resulting from an inability to prevent someone from seeing harm ; until you have stood upon our streets and offered service in defense against those that would seek to do others harm ; you have no ground on which to stand in making such comments ! ! ! Law enforcement , as a whole , exhibits a love of community that few can even comprehend . Every day we place ourselves in harms way , in the hope that we can prevent some of the evil that lurks in our world . We do this by choice . No one has forced us into this position . We do this because we are of a breed that is able and willing to fight in the face of evil . We do this knowing that it is unlikely that we will win this war , but that it is the fight which matters . Our reward for such service ? ? Last year , my net income was a little over $ 42,000 . We are constantly berated by a public that has no real comprehension of what we struggle with on a daily basis . We are often held in contempt by many , for life and death decisions we make in a split second with little or unreliable information . Our families are often victims of the stresses created by our chosen profession . I have encountered grief over the evils of man that you and many others have no way of even imagining.DO NOT sit safely behind your keyboard , and pretend that you have some insight into what we think and feel , until you are prepared to stand where I have stood for the past twelve years . Justin""",DISAGREE,"""They 'll show up whenever they 're good and ready . The life of an individual is n't first priority to the police .""","""Until you have chosen to stand in uniform between the criminal element and the law abiding in our communities ; until you have felt the anguish of attending a funeral service for a fallen brother , until you have felt the helplessness and shed tears resulting from an inability to prevent someone from seeing harm ; until you have stood upon our streets and offered service in defense against those that would seek to do others harm ; you have no ground on which to stand in making such comments ! ! !""",,
30874,8087,"""Yea , and so is gardening . Both are `` murdering `` living things . Both do not mentally exist . A strand of DNA is the only difference , which is n't very much .""","""So what do you think about the fact that this baby is much younger and smaller and far less developed than many of those who are aborted ? While this baby 21 week baby is living in one hospital room , down the hall a 22/23/24/25/26 ect week baby is being aborted because it was in the wrong place at the wrong time .""",DISAGREE,"""Both are `` murdering `` living things . Both do not mentally exist .""","""this baby is much younger and smaller and far less developed than many of those who are aborted ?""",,
30911,8093,"""that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions ?""","""It 's a bunch of bull * * * * , another attempt at a causation/correlation bait and switch tactic without any evidence to back it up . There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms , and yet never display violent tendencies . You really should be careful about posting nonsense like this . If your article has any validity , it would be grounds for disarming the police , since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people , and more likely to kill innocent bystanders .""",DISAGREE,"""exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions""","""There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms , and yet never display violent tendencies .""",,
30912,8093,"""that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts and actions ?""","""It 's a bunch of bull * * * * , another attempt at a causation/correlation bait and switch tactic without any evidence to back it up . There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms , and yet never display violent tendencies . You really should be careful about posting nonsense like this . If your article has any validity , it would be grounds for disarming the police , since them having access to guns would make them more violent towards the people , and more likely to kill innocent bystanders .""",DISAGREE,"""that exposure to a gun can raise testosterone levels and trigger violent and aggressive thoughts""","""There are plenty of people who have constant access to firearms , and yet never display violent tendencies .""",,
30940,8096,"""seems atheism has been disproven as well ....""","""Thats well known to be an observational artifact .""",DISAGREE,"""seems atheism has been disproven as well""","""Thats well known to be an observational artifact .""",,
30943,8096,"""seems atheism has been disproven as well ....""","""Thats well known to be an observational artifact .""",DISAGREE,"""has been disproven as well ....""","""to be an observational artifact .""",,
30949,8097,"""How Darwin 's `` strongest single class of facts `` -- the early vertebrate embryos -- shows the opposite of what he thought it showed""","""Even if this vague claim were true , would it weaken evolutionary theory ? No .""",DISAGREE,"""strongest single class of facts opposite of what he thought it showed""","""Even if this vague claim were true , would it weaken evolutionary theory ?""",,
30978,8100,"""You 're an extremist of the most dangerous kind Brady , and you have lost all credibility as an objective concerned citizen who is seeking balanced gun policies . You have an anti-constitutional agenda that works to disarm honest people in favor of criminals who will never obey the laws to disarm if you ever succeeded in you goals . In my opinion , you and your ilk are as dangerous a threat to America as the terrorists who have openly vowed to destroy us .""","""so a person that doesnt want children to have machine guns and 50caliber weapons is an antigun extremist ? Id hate to know what you think a moderate is .""",DISAGREE,"""You 're an extremist of the most dangerous kind Brady""","""so a person that doesnt want children to have machine guns and 50caliber weapons is an antigun extremist ?""",,
30997,8105,"""If you believe anything that you havent proven to yourself , then you are placing faith in the source that the information came from . Have you personally taken samples from the rings of trees and the corals that the scientists have used to measure the ammount of carbon that was present at these times and personally carbon dated the earth yourself ?""","""Well , that 's not exactly true . I do n't put absolute faith in the results of science , but I do trust that scientists are not lying . They may be wrong , but I do n't defend what they say to the death . I do n't have an absolute belief in what they have found or the conclusions they 've drawn . I tend to `` believe `` the big bang theory , but I have serious doubts as to its validity . I think the ability to change your mind about things as they come is what makes it not faith . Trusting scientists that they are n't lying does n't mean that I have faith in what they say . Faith is a really strong word . edit - Oh , I also realize what you are saying so I 'll try to explain . Scientists publish their results in journals . Their methods and results are there for everyone to see . All you and I have to do is go to a library that subscribes to the journal , or personally subscribe to it , and look up their work . If you had a problem with what they did , you can do your own experiments to prove them wrong , or at least make your case why you think they are wrong . Now , getting your results published is another can of worms . But , anyway , you or I do n't have to be published to redo the experiments ourselves , but that might take some money . Anyway , all I 'm saying is that once something is published , it 's not written in stone . It does n't become infallible scripture . People who read it , `` believe `` it ( or not ) , based on their own knowledge of the subject . Results and conclusions are challenged all the time . Interpretations are modified all the time . I really do n't see what any of this has to do with Faith .""",DISAGREE,"""If you believe anything that you havent proven to yourself , then you are placing faith in the source that the information came from""","""Their methods and results are there for everyone to see .""",,
31001,8106,"""TRUE""","""* - edit : you know , actually , evidence in the form of experimental results are reviewed , or at least the methods are reviewed , and then if the experiment is n't reproducible then the evidence becomes suspect , so in that light evidence is , sort of , reviewed . Eh , who cares ? )""",DISAGREE,"""TRUE""","""edit : you know , actually , evidence in the form of experimental results are reviewed ,""",,
31005,8115,"""She did n't buy a gun for a criminal .""","""Strawman argument . Under the anti-gun standard of review , a straw purchase involves buying a gun for anyone other than yourself , with no exceptions .""",DISAGREE,"""gun for a criminal .""","""gun for anyone other than yourself""",,
31016,8120,"""Baby can be used to describe a human fetus . Get over it . Your technicality bs is not needed here ... granted you have only made 20 posts or so . Already proven wrong and you just joined ....""","""Does this mean that I can use the terms `` fetus `` and `` baby `` interchangeably ? Like can I say , `` I need to find a fetus sitter so I can go out to the movies with my friends. `` When I go car seat shopping , can I ask for `` a seat to put my fetus in ? `` Or when I 'm in a child 's clothing store , can I ask for fetus clothes ?""",DISAGREE,"""can be used describe fetus""","""Like say""",,
31020,8121,"""( Handgun licensing . ) '' ( iii ) contacting the chief law enforcement officer of the State that issued the State handgun license to confirm that the State handgun license has not been revoked ; ( Then we have Registration ) ( Waiting Periods ) `` ( C ) ( i ) not less than 7 days have elapsed ( Written Permission from law enforcement ) ( Handgun Ammunition regulations ) ( State handgun safety certificate . and fees ) STORAGE OF FIREARMS AWAY FROM JUVENILES . With federal Crime statute . SEC . 204 . FEDERAL ARSENAL LICENSE . for more than 20 firearms or more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition . arsenal license fee of $ 300 for a 3-year license Repeal of SEC . 205 . RESTORATION OF FIREARM PRIVILEGES . ( even with all of this above ) PROHIBITION ON MULTIPLE HANDGUN TRANSFERS . ( Get a load of these fees ) LICENSE APPLICATION FEES . 1 ) in paragraph ( 1 ) ( A ) by striking `` $ 1,000 `` and inserting `` $ 10,000 `` ; ( 2 ) in paragraph ( 1 ) ( B ) by striking `` $ 50 `` and inserting `` $ 1,000 `` ; ( 3 ) in paragraph ( 1 ) ( C ) by striking `` $ 10 `` and inserting `` $ 1,000 `` ; ( 4 ) in paragraph ( 2 ) ( A ) by striking `` $ 1,000 `` and inserting `` $ 10,000 `` ; ( 5 ) in paragraph ( 2 ) ( B ) by striking `` $ 50 `` and inserting `` $ 1,000 `` ; ( 6 ) in paragraph ( 3 ) ( A ) by striking `` $ 1,000 `` and inserting `` $ 10,000 `` ; 7 ) in paragraph ( 3 ) ( B ) by striking `` $ 200 for 3 years , except that the fee for renewal of a valid license shall be $ 90 for 3 years `` and inserting `` $ 1,000 per year `` . A license for sellers of Ammunition DEFINITION OF FIREARM EXPANDED TO INCLUDE COMPONENT PARTS . Meaning receiver , barrel , stock , ammunition magazine , or any part of the action `` . Lawsuit permission legislation PROHIBITED WEAPONS . it shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture , transfer , or possess a prohibited weapon. ( Confiscation ? ) ( A ) in paragraph ( 28 ) by striking `` `` semiautomatic rifle ' means any repeating rifle `` and inserting `` `` semiautomatic firearm ' means any repeating firearm `` ; ( Pumps and Lever Actions ? ) '' ( 31 ) The term 'prohibited weapon ' means -- `` ( E ) a semiautomatic assault weapon ; `` ( F ) a Saturday-night-special handgun ; `` ( G ) a nonsporting ammunition ; and `` ( H ) a large-capacity ammunition feeding device . INCREASED TAX ON HANDGUNS AND HANDGUN AMMUNITION . 30 percent ARTICLES TAXABLE AT 50 PERCENT""","""And what would we have seen 3 months later if this had passed ? Brady 3 ? But hey , there is no slippery slope !""",DISAGREE,"""STORAGE OF FIREARMS AWAY FROM JUVENILES .""","""But hey , there is no slippery slope !""",,
31038,8124,"""I do n't know if I can accept `` creationist science `` as a true form of science . True science involves developing explanations for phenomena based on ALL available evidence gathered . Creationists pick and choose little bits of science that supports their claims , all the while ignoring the evidence that discredits them .""","""Walking-fish : A great example of this is the way Young Earthers try to discount radiometric dating . They will choose a couple hundred inconsistent radiometric dates out of the thousands that have been recorded and argue that they are unreliable . Then they will choose a couple lame pieces of evidence for a young earth , such as Robt Gentry 's Polonium halos , rate of decay in the earth 's magnetic field , rates of sediment/salt deposition in the ocean or rate of population growth . This is supposed to outweigh the evidence from thousands of good radiometric dates . Creationists are not very good at doing science but they are good at picking cherries . So if you own an orchard and need a few good field hands , hire a young earth creationist .""",AGREE,"""I do n't know if I can accept `` creationist science `` as a true form of science""","""Creationists are not very good at doing science but they are good at picking cherries .""",,
31068,8136,"""That is not necessarily true . I have known girls who have gotten pregnant and wanted an abortion but the fathers of the babies told them they did n't want them to have an abortion so the did n't and now the baby is healthy .""","""The guy can have an opinion but the ultimate choice is up to the woman who can listen to what the guy says or not , it 's up to her . I believe that is what sinjin was saying .""",DISAGREE,"""I have known girls who have gotten pregnant and wanted an abortion but the fathers of the babies told them they did n't want them to have an abortion""","""The guy can have an opinion but the ultimate choice is up to the woman who can listen to what the guy says or not , it 's up to her .""",,
31074,8137,"""Laci Peterson 's pregnancy was far past the point of viability , so she would not have been able to get an abortion unless her health was in danger . Also , an abortion is a legal medical procedure , while cutting a fetus out of a woman with a knife is not . If I ran up to you and knocked you out and then performed some pseudo medical procedure on you , I 'd be arrested , regardless of whether or not you could get a legitimate version of that procedure on your own .""","""But if the fetus is n't a human , then it 's not murder .""",DISAGREE,"""Laci Peterson 's pregnancy was far past the point of viability""","""But if the fetus is n't a human , then it 's not murder .""",,
31073,8137,"""Laci Peterson 's pregnancy was far past the point of viability , so she would not have been able to get an abortion unless her health was in danger . Also , an abortion is a legal medical procedure , while cutting a fetus out of a woman with a knife is not . If I ran up to you and knocked you out and then performed some pseudo medical procedure on you , I 'd be arrested , regardless of whether or not you could get a legitimate version of that procedure on your own .""","""But if the fetus is n't a human , then it 's not murder .""",DISAGREE,"""Laci Peterson 's pregnancy was far past the point of viability , so she would not have been able to get an abortion unless her health was in danger . Also , an abortion is a legal medical procedure , while cutting a fetus out of a woman with a knife is not .""","""But if the fetus is n't a human , then it 's not murder .""",,
31106,8143,"""BTW , Jim , this reminds me of that thread about men wearing make-up . If you want to call me on that – okay – but that was for televisionÂ…and that ’ s it . I mean it . Seriously""","""Yes , I remember , and I agree . Johnny was just primping for the cameras . I do believe though that historically men have been vain and will continue to be so . Your expression of machoism in the toughness of your truck is just another vanity . Vanity can be expressed by the pride one takes in the amount of mud hanging on the four wheeler after a spin in the backwoods . Face it , BO . You 're just a vain man , such as I am . Our quest to have the biggest , baddest truck on the block is not much different from a woman wanting to be the belle of the ball . And often men express their vanity in the `` possession `` of a trophy wife .""",AGREE,"""this reminds me of that thread about men wearing make-up""","""Yes , I remember , and I agree""",,
31108,8144,"""Third , it is most tiresome to see all the horrors of the world ascribed to atheism when atheism has nothing to do with them . Atheism has nothing to do with the nationalism of the Nazis and Fascists , has nothing to do with the cult of personality established by various dictators and similar . And do n't even try to claim I do n't know any of it . I LIVE in the area you claim as `` Tito 's slaughterhouse `` . I KNOW what it was all about . And atheism did n't get even nearly close to the true causes .""","""Oh , buddy , Atheism has EVERYTHING to do with that . The morality-less framework of Atheism ALLOWED them to justify the horrors that they inflicted .""",DISAGREE,"""atheism has nothing to do with them nationalism of the Nazis and Fascists ``""","""Atheism has EVERYTHING to do with that Atheism ALLOWED them to justify the horrors""",,
31107,8144,"""Third , it is most tiresome to see all the horrors of the world ascribed to atheism when atheism has nothing to do with them . Atheism has nothing to do with the nationalism of the Nazis and Fascists , has nothing to do with the cult of personality established by various dictators and similar . And do n't even try to claim I do n't know any of it . I LIVE in the area you claim as `` Tito 's slaughterhouse `` . I KNOW what it was all about . And atheism did n't get even nearly close to the true causes .""","""Oh , buddy , Atheism has EVERYTHING to do with that . The morality-less framework of Atheism ALLOWED them to justify the horrors that they inflicted .""",DISAGREE,"""Atheism has nothing to do with the nationalism of the Nazis and Fascists ,""","""Atheism has EVERYTHING to do with that . The morality-less framework of Atheism ALLOWED them to justify the horrors""",,
31115,8146,"""Guns do make killing a relatively impersonal matter , do n't they ?""","""So what ? Whether killing is a personal or impersonal matter , the bottom line is that somebody IS going to be killed and that 's all there is to it . I highly doubt somebody 's BEING killed is of less importance than HOW they were killed .""",DISAGREE,"""Guns do make killing a relatively impersonal matter ,""","""So what ?""",,
31129,8150,"""Are you really this historically ignorant ? Free French Forces - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia French Resistance - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""","""Did you actually read your own links ? I was holding those in reserve to prove my comment . Interesting reading non ? It seems the wars are repetitious and always involve a tyrant and his government and other wan na be 's like Vichy in France capitulating with Hitler . Most of the Free Army was composed of whom ? When did the resistance begin and are you making the argument that `` resistance is futile `` or that resistance is effective ? No doubt Sarge will have some insight on the sitop also ?""",DISAGREE,"""Are you really this historically ignorant ? Free French Forces""","""Did you actually read your own links ? I was holding those in reserve to prove my comment .""",,
31145,8152,"""And what do you mean by `` modern liberals `` ?""","""Sorry about that . I meant Atheists . And by modern , I mean present-day .""",AGREE,"""And what do you mean by `` modern liberals `` ?""","""Sorry about that . I meant Atheists . And by modern , I mean present-day .""",,
31149,8153,"""wow , another person that tries to twist the Bible . Should I even be shocked ?""","""Actually the bible is silent concerning abortion which is odd considering it was highly outlawed by surrounding nations.The bible is very clear concerning the value of a fetus as opposed to an actual soulish being ( mother ) though .""",DISAGREE,"""wow , another person that tries to twist the Bible . Should I even be shocked ?""","""bible is very clear concerning the value of a fetus as opposed to an actual soulish being ( mother ) though .""",,
31152,8154,"""we as humans on this earth are stupid , stupid in the way that we know not of what is going on aorund us . religion was made so that we humans would not feel frightened and alone in this universe . people can not grasp that after we die , we rot in the ground . we can not even imagine non existence .""","""I see what you were trying to start say about confusing common sense , with a myth . But what a myth is to you , is n't a myth to others . Some people go on common sense , some people go with there hearts , and some people go with what they have enormous faith in . All of the above are not stupid ! So dont say that they are ! I go on common sense , but what I have faith in means to much to me to just push aside entirely .""",DISAGREE,"""religion was made so that we humans would not feel frightened and alone in this universe""","""But what a myth is to you , is n't a myth to others .""",,
31172,8163,"""Thus , there is no way that selection will have a variant to choose from .""","""Ouch . That leads to an easy refutation .""",DISAGREE,"""Thus , there is no way that selection will have a variant to choose from .""","""That leads to an easy refutation .""",,
31175,8164,"""I 'm pro-choice , but to say that having an abortion should not or will not effect EITHER parent is callous . You 'll , most likely , ( at minimum ) wonder regretfully what could have been .""","""Why would you be regretful , if it 's your choice , and you stand by it ? What if you honestly and truly did not want a child in the future ? To speak for everyone and say , there will always be regret , or else you are callous , is the problem here . This is the cultural conditioning I was speaking of earlier which stigmatizes those who make a choice .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm pro-choice , but to say that having an abortion should not or will not effect""","""This is the cultural conditioning I was speaking of earlier which stigmatizes those who make a choice .""",,
31199,8166,"""And your claims that you have debunked anything only prove you a liar .""","""Really ? Look above ; all I have to do is repeat things I 've already told you to respond to your `` debunkings. ``""",DISAGREE,"""And your claims that you have debunked anything only prove you a liar .""","""Really ? Look above ; all I have to do is repeat things I 've already told you to respond to your `` debunkings. ``""",,
31212,8167,"""You have this odd notion that only the Biblical faiths count as religions .""","""No i dont ... as im a plurilist ....""",DISAGREE,"""You have this odd notion""","""No i dont ...""",,
31211,8167,"""You have this odd notion that only the Biblical faiths count as religions .""","""No i dont ... as im a plurilist ....""",DISAGREE,"""that only the Biblical faiths count as religions .""","""No i dont ...""",,
31217,8168,"""After the person 's case is thoroughly investigated , and they are guilty , the death penalty should stay""","""But the problem is with determining whether or not a person ACTUALLY is guilty . If we could determine 100 % for sure whether or not a person is guilty , I would definitely be pro-death penalty . However , I do n't think it is worth the risk to sacrifice one innocent life in order to punish others .""",DISAGREE,"""After the person 's case is thoroughly investigated , and they are guilty , the death penalty should stay""","""If we could determine 100 % for sure whether or not a person is guilty , I would definitely be pro-death penalty . However , I do n't think it is worth the risk to sacrifice one innocent life in order to punish others .""",,
31235,8170,"""But just try and remove them from those that think we do and you will have a war on your hands . It 's too bad we did n't become more like Canada is respect to gun ownership . A lot more people would be alive today and others not sitting in prison for crimes they commited .""","""Just how do you arrive at that conclusion ?""",DISAGREE,"""A lot more people would be alive today and others not sitting in prison for crimes they commited .""","""how do you arrive at that conclusion ?""",,
31241,8171,"""the very same genetic similarities you will use to claim our familial relationship with chimps also makes absolute claims about how our genetic material defines our intelligence , imagination , creativity , reasoning ability and our hunger to grow intellectually and seek to continually improve our World to suit our personal needs .""","""No , it does n't . Our genotype ( together with other epigenetic modifiers ) gives us a much bigger brain than chimps , although it is structured very similarly . On top of that , what we accomplish with our bigger brain is , as I 've already demonstrated in other threads with reference to feral children , greatly dependent upon the accumulated wisdom imprinted upon the brain during infancy . We teach our children to problem-solve . We teach them language and abstract thought - we train the various parts of the brain to do their job properly . We are n't born 'complete ' . Even as adults , not everyone is equally quick-witted , not everyone has an equal facility for logical thought - and this has a lot to do with how their brain has been trained during its development . Other apes can also be taught these same concepts - to a more limited degree , sure , but then the related parts of their brain are smaller and less capable .""",DISAGREE,"""the very same genetic similarities you will use to claim our familial relationship with chimps""","""No , it does n't""",,
31270,8177,"""nothing new can be created by making copies , i 've addressed this many times""","""This is a laughable oversimplication of reproduction . Humans do n't make copies . Do you reproduce asexually ? I know I do n't .""",DISAGREE,"""nothing new can be created by making copies""","""This is a laughable . Humans do n't make copies Do you reproduce asexually ?""",,
31296,8182,"""If you disagree with them , you are branded as a religious zealot who 's determined to take their rights away .""","""So try actually responding to the points I 'm making rather than just making up stuff to attack me over .""",DISAGREE,"""If you disagree you are branded as a religious zealot who 's determined to take their rights away .""","""try actually responding to the points rather than just making up stuff to attack me over .""",,
31294,8182,"""If you disagree with them , you are branded as a religious zealot who 's determined to take their rights away .""","""So try actually responding to the points I 'm making rather than just making up stuff to attack me over .""",DISAGREE,"""If you disagree with them , you are branded as a religious zealot who 's determined to take their rights away .""","""So try actually responding to the points I 'm making rather than just making up stuff to attack me over .""",,
31306,8192,"""an unbreakable rock can not exist , simply because its illogical , not because of God 's will . as long as something is classified as a rock , or any other solid for that matter , it can break . in the same way God can not create a round square . then again , God can set limits on himself , in that he can create a situation that he himself can not revoke . in a way it is similar to the hard rock question . for instance , God can not undo his word . if he says something will happen , or never happen , then it can never be undone . according to genesis , one of the things God can not do is destroy the earth by water . in this sense , here is something God can not do . by God 's own declarations he limits his possible actions . but it doesnt make him less than omnipotent . he still possesses the ABILITY to destroy the earth by global flood , but he can not because he can not lie , and for every declaration he makes , its one more thing he can not do""","""Good point .""",DISAGREE,"""in this sense , here is something God can not do . by God 's own declarations he limits his possible actions . but it doesnt make him less than omnipotent . he still possesses the ABILITY to destroy the earth by global flood , but he can not because he can not lie , and for every declaration he makes , its one more thing he can not do""","""Good point""",,
31325,8199,"""When you have no constructive comment just attacks the messenger with your insultsand name calling ..... typical ............... so very sad .......... Its radicals like you that hurt the cause of gay rights .........""","""Nice job not addressing anything I said . I am not a radical , just informed . I used to work for a sexual violence center and counseled rape victims in college . I am also a victim . Keeping myself up to date on sex crimes is important to me , partly because I want all that can be done to prevent it done . Pointing a finger at gays like this does not do that . This pyschologist sums it up nicely : http : //psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo ... lestation.html""",DISAGREE,"""When you have no constructive comment just attacks the messenger with your insultsand name calling""","""myself up to date on sex crimes is important to me""",,
31348,8203,"""That would be true if he did not keep on opening up thread after thread after thread of the same subject . He makes 2 or 3 posts , then runs away to open up another thread .""","""Yes , i agree with you .""",AGREE,"""He makes 2 or 3 posts , then runs away to open up another thread .""","""Yes , i agree with you .""",,
31387,8207,"""The theory of pangea ( One continent Earth ) fits the Biblical early Earth .""","""Yeah , but everything that creationists ca n't deny is claimed to fit the Biblical picture . Please cite the verses . How could all of this tectonic activity have happened in just a few few years after the mythical flood ? You do know that it produces heat , do n't you ?""",DISAGREE,"""The theory of pangea ( One continent Earth ) fits the Biblical early Earth""","""Yeah , but everything that creationists ca n't deny is claimed to fit the Biblical picture""",,
31395,8208,"""When Chicago passed a ban on handgun ownership in 1982 , it was part of a trend . Washington , D.C. , had done it in 1976 , and a few Chicago suburbs took up the cause in the following years . They all expected to reduce the number of guns and thus curtail bloodshed . District of Columbia Attorney General Linda Singer told The Washington Post in 2007 , `` It 's a pretty common-sense idea that the more guns there are around , the more gun violence you 'll have. `` Nadine Winters , a member of the Washington City Council in 1976 , said she assumed at the time that the policy `` would spread to other places. `` But the fad never really caught fire — even before last summer , when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the D.C. law and cast doubt on the others , including the Chicago ordinance before the court Tuesday . The Second Amendment may kill such restrictions , but in most places , it was n't needed to keep them from hatching in the first place . Maybe that 's because there were so many flaws in the basic idea . Or maybe it was because strict gun control makes even less sense at the municipal level than it does on a broader scale . At any rate , the policy turned out to be a comprehensive dud . In the years following its ban , Washington did not generate a decline in gun murders . In fact , the number of killings rose by 156 percent — at a time when murders nationally increased by just 32 percent . For a while , the city vied regularly for the title of murder capital of America . Chicago followed a similar course . In the decade after it outlawed handguns , murders jumped by 41 percent , compared with an 18 percent rise in the entire United States . One problem is that the bans did n't actually have any discernible effect on the availability of guns to people with felonious intent . As with drugs and hookers , when there is a demand for guns , there will always be a supply . Who places the highest value on owning a firearm ? Criminals . Who is least likely to fear being prosecuted for violating the law ? Criminals . Who is most likely to have access to illicit dealers ? You guessed it . If we were starting out in a country with zero guns , it might be possible to keep such weapons away from bad guys . But that 's not this country , which has more than 200 million firearms in private hands and a large , perpetual supply of legal handguns . Only a tiny percentage of those weapons has to be diverted to the underground trade for crooks to acquire all the firepower they need . While gun bans greatly impede the law-abiding , they pose only a trivial inconvenience to the lawless . This is especially true at the local level . Banning guns from one city makes about as much sense as banning them on one block . It 's hard enough to halt the flow of guns over international borders , where governments police traffic . It 's impossible to stop them from crossing municipal boundaries — which are unmonitored , undefended and practically invisible . Tens of thousands of cars enter Washington and Chicago each day from places where guns are easily and legally obtainable . Any of those vehicles could be transporting a carton of pistols to sell to willing thugs . If you 're on an island , you 're going to get splashed by the waves . The proponents obviously knew all along this city-by-city approach had serious shortcomings . But they figured it was bound to curtail gun availability somewhat . They also hoped that by prohibiting handguns in one place , they were beginning a bigger process . First , they expected that other cities and states would follow suit . Second , they wagered that strict controls at the local level would acclimate Americans to new regulations at the national level . But things did n't work out that way . The persistence of crime in supposedly gun-free zones did n't build support for broader gun control by showing the limits of piecemeal legislation . It weakened the case , by proving that such regulations have little impact on the people who present the biggest danger . Instead of a broad upward avenue , it was a dead end . Gun control supporters fear that if the Supreme Court invalidates local handgun bans , the consequences will be nothing but bad . That would be easier to believe if the laws had ever done any good .""","""Only a complete XXXXX , devoid of even the slightest measurable amount of critical thinking skills , would support Chicago 's handgun ban .""",DISAGREE,"""When Chicago passed a ban on handgun ownership in 1982 , it was part of a trend . Washington , D.C. , had done it in 1976 , and a few Chicago suburbs took up the cause in the following years""","""Only a complete XXXXX , devoid of even the slightest measurable amount of critical thinking skills , would support Chicago 's handgun ban .""",,
31405,8209,"""If you ca n't see the difference between gay marriage and murder then you need your head examining . In a society based on the right to `` life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness `` what is the overriding need that means the rights of gays to the latter must be sacrificed . The saying goes that my right to swing my fist stops at your nose , whose nose is smashed by the right of gays to marry ?""","""But the difference is , if you take a swing and hit someone , or harm them in a worse way , you can get locked up for it . But no cop is going to bar the door to a chapel where you get married to a same-sex partner , and you wo n't be arrested afterwards . Yes , it 's completely legal for you to do that , right now . Apples and oranges .""",DISAGREE,"""If you ca n't see the difference between gay marriage and murder then you need your head examining .""","""But the difference is , if you take a swing and hit someone , or harm them in a worse way , you can get locked up for it .""",,
31418,8210,"""Let me get this straight . We ca n't force a woman to give birth if she does n't want the child , but we can force the father to pay for the child 's care regardless of whether he wanted the child or not ? Interesting .""","""Yes because it is `` officially `` a life . Whether a person believes in life at conception or not they all agree it is life at birth and half way through life it is still life and right before death it is still life . If she does not want the child she can refrain from sex , use a contraceptive or abortion . If he does not want it he can refrain from sex ( not likely for men ) , use a condom ( not a guarantee to work ) , have surgery ( hard to reverse ) but that is it . So if he was to use a condom and get her pregnant she still has the last option .""",AGREE,"""Let me get this straight . We ca n't force a woman to give birth if she does n't want the child ,""","""Yes""",,
31426,8211,"""Obviously I am saying that we do not know whether it is a person or not `` morally , `` as you describe it . Yes , this does suggest a universal moral code . To say that this requires a God tells me you need to learn some philosophy . Ever heard of Kant ? The Categorical Imperative ? Read up on Kant and come tell me a God is necessary for a moral code .""","""I know something of philosophy , and feel free to use Kant to refute me . I did not say God is necessary for a moral code to exist , I said some sort of Supreme Being is necessary for a moral code to exist objectively outside the human mind . What is your support that we do not know whether it is a person or not  “ morally ” ? I tell you now , a fetus is not morally a person to me . There , you are refuted .""",DISAGREE,"""Obviously I am saying that we do not know whether it is a person or not `` morally , `` as you describe it . Yes , this does suggest a universal moral code .""","""I tell you now , a fetus is not morally a person to me . There , you are refuted .""",,
31432,8212,"""... I was presented with a copy of Evolution : Fact or Fiction which was written by a Professor of Evolution who was appalled when he discovered that a lot of the diagrams used in text books , even at degree level were based on little or no evidence ...""","""Can you tell us who this `` Professor of Evolution `` is ? There are lots of booklets called entitled `` Evolution : Fact or Fiction `` and all ( aFAIK ) are written by evangelicals with next to no knowledge of evolution at all . Sadly such `` Christians `` are happy to lie about their qualifications if it helps them spread doubt about science . I suspect what you are referring to is one such booklet , but I need a name to know for sure .""",DISAGREE,"""discovered that a lot of the diagrams used in text books , even at degree level were based on little or no evidence""","""There are lots of booklets called entitled `` Evolution : Fact or Fiction `` and all ( aFAIK ) are written by evangelicals with next to no knowledge of evolution at all .""",,
31435,8213,"""Well , it was n't just a footnote that Lott supposedly lost . It was all his raw data to support his claim that 98 % of defensive gun uses do n't involve the firing of the weapon . And Lott did lie because changed his story about who conducted the story . '' When Lott cited the statistic peripherally on page three of his book , he attributed it to 'national surveys . ' In the second edition , he changed the citation to ' a national survey that I conducted . ' He has also incorrectly attributed the figure to newspaper polls and Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck. `` http : //www.townhall.com/columnists/m ... 20030205.shtml So was it a newspaper poll ? Did Kleck conduct it ? Now Lott claims he did it . If true , he must have been lying when he said that others conducted the study . '' He has forgotten the names of the students who allegedly helped with the survey and who supposedly dialed thousands of survey respondents long-distance from their own dorm rooms using survey software Lott ca n't identify or produce. `` Interesting how he ca n't remember anyone who helped him .""","""Yet , tehre seem to be people who remember taking the poll . Regardless , in his report it was a minor point . From a realistic standpoint , it took nothing away from the report when he removed it . Lott was investigated for this , just like Bellisiles . He was not found guilty of any academic misconduct ( unlike Bellesiles ) . When you consider the thousands fo data sets that he compiled to put that report together , the folks investigating him did n't think it was at all unbelieveable that he scoudn ; t remeber the details of where that number came from . Again , though , he ended up removing that number from his report ( the single place that it appeared ) and apologised for using it since he could not provide the raw data or a good cite for it . Here is how he responded to the article you link to : http : //johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html It is rather interesting , and well documented . It addresses a couple of inacuracies in the article , such as the misconseption that he had attributed the disputed numner to Kleck .""",AGREE,"""was n't just a footnote that Lott supposedly lost . all his raw data to support his claim that 98 % of defensive gun uses do n't involve the firing of the weapon . Lott did lie he changed the citation to ' a national survey that I conducted . ' also incorrectly attributed figure newspaper polls and Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck""","""seem to be people who remember taking the poll . it was a minor point . was not found guilty of any academic misconduct , he ended up removing that number from his report apologised for using it since he could not provide the raw data or a good cite for it .""",,
31438,8214,"""Out of the approximate 1 million abortions DO YOU know how many are women of RAPE ? No you do n't because the statisitcs are NOT out there .""","""Well , you are talking to Mr. Statistics here so I am quite aware of how few abortions result from women who become pregnant following rape .... the numbers are not hard to find even from the sort of `` official `` unbiased sources many pro-lifers seem so quick to decry . For example , first hit on Google . Or if you have the patience to read it , this article . Now we settled that , you are asserting it is fine to deny the women of South Dakota access to abortion if they are pregnant from a rape just because they are in a minority . I have problems with such an approach .""",DISAGREE,"""DO YOU know how many are women of RAPE""","""I am quite aware of how few abortions result from women who become pregnant following rape""",,
31474,8222,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 The crime rates : http : //story.news.yahoo.com/news ? tm ... satoday/5248273 Does not even mention guns .""","""So ? There are other articles and books that do . Is your link the ultimate authority on the cause of crime ?""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 Does not even mention guns""","""There are other articles and books that do . Is your link the ultimate authority on the cause of crime ?""",,
31477,8223,"""a Hey everyone -- -I 'm new here . CAn somebody tell me why it 's worth while to have an abortion and why it 's not worth while to have an abortion . I 'm not asking in a mean way . I just do n't know the sides of abortion ... Can anyone help me ? Evelyn Waugh .""","""If you were the real Evelyn Waugh who converted to catholicism you would know the answer to your question by now""",AGREE,"""a . CAn somebody tell me why it 's worth while to have an abortion and why it 's not I 'm not asking in mean way I just do n't know the sides of abortion""","""If you were the real Evelyn Waugh who converted to catholicism know the answer to your question""",,
31485,8224,"""Indeed true . God created man in his own likeness and man returned the favor . Man created a vindictive , vengeful , and vicious god , according to the Bible . So where does a loving god come from ?""","""The character of God seems to be in the eye of the beholder ... Or non-existant .""",DISAGREE,"""Indeed true . God created man in his own likeness and man returned the favor .""","""The character of God seems to be in the eye of the beholder""",,
31496,8226,"""I do n't have a problem with that either . They 're still contracts between consenting parties . The government has no legitimate interest promoting or discouraging either .""","""So lets us and gays be honest when they/us talk about their 'right ' to marriage . We should not argue that gays should have the 'right ' to marry we should argue that the definition of ' marriage ' should be changed . Whether you have or have not any objections to gay marriage only matters to you . What matters is the opinions of the people who individually or collectively can change the law""",AGREE,"""The government has no legitimate interest promoting or discouraging either .""","""So lets us and gays be honest when they/us talk about their 'right ' to marriage""",,
31495,8226,"""I do n't have a problem with that either . They 're still contracts between consenting parties . The government has no legitimate interest promoting or discouraging either .""","""So lets us and gays be honest when they/us talk about their 'right ' to marriage . We should not argue that gays should have the 'right ' to marry we should argue that the definition of ' marriage ' should be changed . Whether you have or have not any objections to gay marriage only matters to you . What matters is the opinions of the people who individually or collectively can change the law""",AGREE,"""They 're still contracts between consenting parties .""","""So lets us and gays be honest when they/us talk about their 'right ' to marriage .""",,
31517,8228,"""If human life is an absolute value than how can you allow serial killers to remain a threat to others by NOT executing them ?""","""Well , because the value of that life does n't depend on what the perosn does , it is independent from that . I want to protect human life , that 's why murderers go to jail , but I ca n't kill a person as penalty because I deny that very desire to protect life . What¡s the difference , then , between the state killing a crimminal that has been condemned by a court , and me going to a jail and doing it myself ? Should I be put in jail ? Was n't I performing justice ?""",DISAGREE,"""If human life is an absolute value than how can you allow serial killers""","""I want to protect human life , that 's why murderers go to jail""",,
31520,8229,"""Hello all . I am new here . I 've been lurking a bit and wondered why homosexuality is even an issue for heteros ? Is it because it 's been hated or `` taboo `` for so long ( a learned reaction perhaps ) ? As a heterosexual , how has homosexuality hurt or affected your life in any way ? As a heterosexual , what gives you the right to dictate how homosexual people live ? What if you have a non-christian living here in America ( that would be me ) ... do you require them to live their lives the Christian way ? Please explain . Thanks , Ladywolf""","""Well Ladywolf , that is really more of an argument than it is an honest question . If marriage was truly a private affair that impacted nobody outside the couple themselves , then , yes , that question would be valid . But that is a very shallow understanding and a very uninformed understanding of the nature of marriage , because marriage is just as much — if not more so — about the community as it is about the couple themselves . But it 's not the community that gets married . No , it 's not the community that gets married , but it 's the community that enforces marriage and develops marriage . We need to understand that marriage is just as much a social norm — a social ideal — of the kind of behavior that we expect and need for a healthy vibrant society ; as much as it is about the emotional commitment of two people . One of the biggest issues is the social role of marriage . Marriage domesticates men . Men who are not attached permanently to a woman are men that will practice and engage in socially unhealthy behaviors at a much higher level . How will same-sex marriage effect the concept of `` marriage `` ? Marriage becomes reduced down to nothing , because the moral argument for same-sex marriage is the same moral argument for group marriage , for polygamy , and it is going to be impossible to deny polygamous groups — and group marriage people — who come forth in all sincerity and say , `` If you ca n't restrict marriage to only couples of opposite sex , then you ca n't restrict marriage to only two people. `` They are all very much interwoven . The three things that you lose are : 1 ) the domesticating influence of marriage on men ; 2 ) the protective influence of marriage upon women from being victimized and objectified by men ; and 3 ) it provides mothers and fathers for children . When monogamy is lost as an ideal , the idea that a man should commit himself and forego all other sexual relationships but ( the one with ) his wife , then women become commodities to be used and collected by men . When committing yourself to a woman and subjugating your sexual desires for the sake of that woman — when that becomes just one lifestyle choice among many , it is devastating to a culture . Same-sex `` marriage `` also denies every child it touches access to either a mother or father . It is never compassionate to intentionally deny a child either a mother or father .""",DISAGREE,"""I 've been lurking a bit and wondered why homosexuality is even an issue for heteros""","""it is devastating to a culture . Same-sex `` marriage `` also denies every child it touches access to either a mother or father""",,
31534,8230,"""The difference , and I think it is a significant difference , is that Omegamon spoke of feeling the threat of potential harm . I believe that understanding the risks that are faced every day does not require being fearful of those risks . Nor does it require being stupidly fearless . We all take reasonable steps to reduce our risk of danger every day . To me , the use of a firearm to reduce risk does not seem all that reasonable . The intent of my opening post was to find out why Omegamon and others feel differently .""","""Because we have different experiences than you and are more educated on the subject . The only ones who tend to ask `` Why do you feel you need a firearm to protect yourself `` are the ones who 've never faced such a situation and do n't know what it 's like to be in such a position .""",DISAGREE,"""To me , the use of a firearm to reduce risk does not seem all that reasonable""","""The only ones who tend to ask `` are the ones who 've never faced such a situation and do n't know what it 's like to be in such a position .""",,
31558,8233,"""So the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory . Twenty years ago I could remember events at my fourth birthday , but today those memories are gone . For a while I had personhood at 4 years of age , but today , looking back , I did not have personhood until I was 6 . As I age and my memory fails , it may turn out that I did not have personhood until I was 21 years old . Personnhood comes and goes . Do I have it right ?  ” Not aware ” ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Not aware of what ? Shoot a gun behind them and they will flinch . They are aware of loud noises . Throw them wildly into the air and they will cry . They are aware of their own movement . Pinch them , they will cry . They are self aware as they chew on their toes . And of course puppies are aware as well . Unless of course I do not understand what you mean by aware .""","""My goal was not to state a precise definition because as you say everyone is different but to say the age that a person becomes aware in a substantial way . As far as I can see puppies are probably more functional then human babies are probably just as intelligent . I don ’ t see why you would have trouble with the comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""personhood , Shoot a gun puppies are aware""","""everyone is different aware in a substantial way puppies are probably more functional""",,
31557,8233,"""So the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory . Twenty years ago I could remember events at my fourth birthday , but today those memories are gone . For a while I had personhood at 4 years of age , but today , looking back , I did not have personhood until I was 6 . As I age and my memory fails , it may turn out that I did not have personhood until I was 21 years old . Personnhood comes and goes . Do I have it right ?  ” Not aware ” ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Not aware of what ? Shoot a gun behind them and they will flinch . They are aware of loud noises . Throw them wildly into the air and they will cry . They are aware of their own movement . Pinch them , they will cry . They are self aware as they chew on their toes . And of course puppies are aware as well . Unless of course I do not understand what you mean by aware .""","""My goal was not to state a precise definition because as you say everyone is different but to say the age that a person becomes aware in a substantial way . As far as I can see puppies are probably more functional then human babies are probably just as intelligent . I don ’ t see why you would have trouble with the comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory .""","""but to say the age that a person becomes aware in a substantial way . As far as I can see puppies are probably more functional then human babies are""",,
31560,8233,"""So the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable , based on that individual ’ s memory . Twenty years ago I could remember events at my fourth birthday , but today those memories are gone . For a while I had personhood at 4 years of age , but today , looking back , I did not have personhood until I was 6 . As I age and my memory fails , it may turn out that I did not have personhood until I was 21 years old . Personnhood comes and goes . Do I have it right ?  ” Not aware ” ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Not aware of what ? Shoot a gun behind them and they will flinch . They are aware of loud noises . Throw them wildly into the air and they will cry . They are aware of their own movement . Pinch them , they will cry . They are self aware as they chew on their toes . And of course puppies are aware as well . Unless of course I do not understand what you mean by aware .""","""My goal was not to state a precise definition because as you say everyone is different but to say the age that a person becomes aware in a substantial way . As far as I can see puppies are probably more functional then human babies are probably just as intelligent . I don ’ t see why you would have trouble with the comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""the start of personhood for a particular person is a variable ,""","""goal was not to state a precise definition because as you say everyone is different""",,
31573,8234,"""Strike 5""","""And his argument ( or lack therof ) is gone .""",AGREE,"""Strike 5""","""his argument ( or lack therof ) is gone .""",,
31577,8235,"""It appears that your beef is with the prestige associated with being able to say `` We 're married. `` as opposed to recognizing yourselves as `` same-sex couples with all the rights and privileges afforded married couples `` .""","""That argument cuts both ways . The question comes up regarding what 's YOUR beef on the issue ? Why are you so insistent on maintaining two separate groups ? Is it because you want to reserve marriage as `` prestigous `` whereby gays are kept out ?""",DISAGREE,"""as opposed to recognizing yourselves as `` same-sex couples with all the rights and privileges afforded married couples `` .""","""Is it because you want to reserve marriage as `` prestigous `` whereby gays are kept out ?""",,
31599,8237,"""One idea is that organisms are equipped with the flexibility to change their physical or other features during development to accommodate environmental changes , a phenomenon called phenotypic plasticity . The change typically does n't show up in the genes . For instance , in social bees , both the workers and guards have the same genomes but different genes get activated to give them distinct behaviors and appearances . Environmental factors , such as temperature and embryonic diet , prompt genetic activity that ends up casting one bee a worker and the other a guard . If beneficial , this flexibility could be passed on to offspring and so can lead to the evolution of new features in a species . '' This plasticity is heritable , and natural selection can favor different kinds of plasticity , depending on the range of environmental conditions the organism encounters , `` Pigliucci said .""","""Bertvan : Endogenous Adaptive Mutagenesis proposes that living individual organisms , not their genomes , respond to internal and environmental challenges , intelligently and purposefully , that such adaptations are inherited epigenetically , as they develop , and the phenotype only instigates a reorganization of its genome to reflect such adaptations if they persistent over many generations .""",DISAGREE,"""features during development to accommodate environmental changes , a phenomenon called phenotypic plasticity""","""and environmental challenges , intelligently and purposefully , that such adaptations""",,
31620,8239,"""There 's also a species of Nematode worm that lives only in damp beer mats . One of the Post-Grads at my old Uni did his doctorate on them , I 've tried looking for a link to the research a few times but so far have n't come across it .""","""Yep life is sometimes incredibly fine tuned . Create and maintain an oddball environment and some existing species will move in or if there is no existing species which can use the environment something may well eventually evolve to do so . Microbes are incredibly efficient at this because of their short generation times . So are things like nematodes etc .""",AGREE,"""There 's also a species of Nematode worm that lives only in damp beer mats . One of the Post-Grads at my old Uni did his doctorate on them""","""Create and maintain an oddball environment and some existing species will move in or if there is no existing species which can use the environment something may well eventually evolve to do so .""",,
31631,8240,"""A ) I 'm not a member there .""","""That can be easily remedied .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'm not a member""","""easily remedied .""",,
31644,8242,"""f it does n't , that pretty much debunks the flood `` theory `` . But you just ignore that do n't you ?""","""The `` flood : scientifically possible ? `` thread is evidence that arch ignores essentially everything scientifically and factually relevant about the flood . Fossil record shows sorting largely by complexity , not density . Huh . That 's magic water ! Geological record lacks a uniform layer of sediment similar to the K-T iridium layer . Magic water again ! Geological record does n't support massive geological changes happening in 4,000 years . Magic Land perhaps ? Basic marine organisms ca n't tolerate massive salinity changes . Maybe Noah had a giant magical aquarium ?""",DISAGREE,"""debunks the flood `` theory `` . But you just ignore that do n't you""","""Basic marine organisms ca n't tolerate massive salinity changes . Maybe Noah had a giant magical aquarium ?""",,
31663,8245,""": It probably would have been better if Scalia had said to himself when the case was brought before the court , `` There certainly is no consensus about the meaning of the Second Amendment and I , as an amateur historian , am certainly not going to force my own personal views on others . I will let the people decide through their elected representatives how much gun control is necessary in their own communities. `` Nice interpretation by Dennis Henigan of HCI . He would have loved that but pretending it has n't been ruled as an individual right by the 82nd Congress , the DOJ in August 2004 with all the history and also by 35 Supreme Court rulings and TWO CENTURIES of lower court cases that fills a 660 pg . book with majority opinion , he is either deaf/blind or outright deceitful ... I opt for the latter . He and they know full well that all the courts now are bound to consider any Second Amendment case as a civil rights issue thanks to this ruling . '' letting people decide `` has already been done , once when the Constitution was ratified with the BOR and again when the XIVth Amendment was passed . He may as well say race issues will be decided by elected representatives the racial balance necessary in their own communities `` He is completely dishonest and knows full well that this is a Republic based on the Law of the Land , The Constitution and not a democracy as he suggests . One may as well follow the Piper over the cliff like a herd of lemmings to not recognize this time worn tune played by the gun grabbers .""","""Even new Justice Sotomayor , who claimed she ruled by precedent will be bound by the Heller Decision if she remains true to her purported philosophy . The debate between Sui Juris and Res Judicia should no longer be an issue with the liberals on this RIGHT ! It either applies to all or it applies to none which would result as Justice W.O . Douglas wrote : `` a revolution `` . It is in the government 's ( federal especially ) best interests to keep our soldiers employed in foreign countries . BTW , I think the court decision in Nunn vs. State of Georgia did the best summation of this right !""",AGREE,"""The Constitution and not a democracy as he suggests . One may as well follow the Piper over the cliff like a herd of lemmings to not recognize this time worn tune played by the gun grabbers .""","""Even new Justice Sotomayor , who claimed she ruled by precedent will be bound by the Heller Decision if she remains true to her purported philosophy""",,
31682,8251,"""A `` real man `` helps those who he loves , whether he likes what they did . A father loves his sons and daughters , despite what they do , rather in spite of what they have done .""","""Absolutely .""",AGREE,"""A `` real man `` helps those who he loves , whether he likes what they did .""","""Absolutely .""",,
31683,8252,"""This is a statement written by someone who obviously has not read scripture . One of the most astonising `` proofs `` if you will , that the Bible is of supernatural origin , is predictive prophecy . Science can not , as you claim , `` explain `` everything , and it has no natural explanation for the predictions made in scripture . How can science explain through statistical probablity the over 600 prophecies in Biblical writings that have come to pass ? Also , how can it explain how supposedly uneducated people ( uneducated in the ways of modern science ) wrote about astronomy as if they knew about the universe as we do today . How could they have described the hydrological cycle as we have only come to know it recently ? Ecclesiastes 1:6 The wind goes toward the south , And turns around to the north ; The wind whirls about continually , And comes again on its circuit .""","""Wind goes north , south , east , and west , and it 's always blowing somewhere , how does this relate to any kind of a scientific understanding of wind ? Record the conversation of any two Joe Sixpacks in a coffee shop as they talk about the weather and you have about the same level of science involved .""",DISAGREE,"""And turns around to the north ; The wind whirls about continually , And comes again on its circuit .""","""how does this relate to any kind of a scientific understanding of wind ?""",,
31691,8255,"""youre more concerned about those 22 to 30 thousand gun laws but Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand lives taken by gun violence each year and when youre dead guess what ? then BANG ! you dont have anymore rights protected by the bill of rights because youre dead so if youre really pro american and pro bill of rights then you should worry more about getting good gun control laws passed to protect peoples lives so they can enjoy their rights without having to worry about being shot and losing all their rights maybe youve just been decieved and dont understand what youre supporting""","""Half of all firearms-related deaths are suicides . Out of the remaining 11 to 15 thousand deaths , the vast majority are the results of police shootings or gang wars . Neither of these are linked to widespread legal gun ownership , nor can they be curtailed with evermore laws . Only a fool would believe more laws against guns will affect gang members .""",DISAGREE,"""Im more concerned about the 22 to 30 thousand lives taken by gun violence each year getting good gun control laws passed to protect peoples lives""","""are linked to widespread legal gun ownership , nor can they be curtailed with evermore""",,
31708,8259,"""Usually it is right there in the title , such as `` theory of relativity `` . The theory of ralativity has not been proven , there is still room for debate on it , so it is a theory .""","""Actually , no . It has been quite conclusively shown that the theory of relativity is correct . It is the sign of a scientific illiterate to claim that a theory is somehow doubted because it has n't been `` proven. `` No theory grows up to be a law .""",DISAGREE,"""The theory of ralativity has not been proven , there is still room for debate on it , so it is a theory .""","""Actually , no . It has been quite conclusively shown that the theory of relativity is correct""",,
31710,8259,"""Usually it is right there in the title , such as `` theory of relativity `` . The theory of ralativity has not been proven , there is still room for debate on it , so it is a theory .""","""Actually , no . It has been quite conclusively shown that the theory of relativity is correct . It is the sign of a scientific illiterate to claim that a theory is somehow doubted because it has n't been `` proven. `` No theory grows up to be a law .""",DISAGREE,"""Usually it is right there in the title , such as `` theory of relativity""","""It has been quite conclusively shown that the theory of relativity is correct""",,
31724,8262,"""Germany , Africa , China , Japan , Australia , United Kingdom , Turkey , etc .""","""Huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""Germany , Africa , China , Japan , Australia , United Kingdom , Turkey , etc .""","""Huh ?""",,
31729,8263,"""And as we all know , there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage .""","""Well , of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended . But again , either way , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""",DISAGREE,"""And as we all know , there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage .""","""the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended""",,
31728,8263,"""And as we all know , there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage .""","""Well , of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended . But again , either way , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""",DISAGREE,"""there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage .""","""the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended .""",,
31727,8263,"""And as we all know , there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage .""","""Well , of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage , but rather making it more open-ended . But again , either way , it 'll be a moot point before too long .""",DISAGREE,"""as we all know there has n't been a rational reason for limiting marriage""","""of course the issue is n't `` limiting `` marriage""",,
31746,8266,"""In doing so , you have just castrated the power of the court to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority . By your response , the court 's decision must match the majority . And as already noted , it 's the MAJORITY THAT WANTS the discrimination in the first place .""","""Yes , that 's true . If the majority places discriminations in place and the Court is bound to enforce the law as written , then the Court is bound to enforce that discrimination . That is democracy , and that is the rule of law . If we choose to undermine that democracy , which we have done , we have to be very careful where that leads . What we end up with is less and less of a representative democracy . Who has the power at the end of it ? Certainly not `` the people `` .""",AGREE,"""you have just castrated the power of the court to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority . By your response , the court 's decision must match the majority . it 's the MAJORITY THAT WANTS the discrimination in the first place .""","""Yes , that 's true . If the majority places discriminations in place and the Court is bound to enforce the law as written , then the Court is bound to enforce that discrimination . That is democracy , and that is the rule of law . If we choose to undermine that democracy , which we have done , we have to be very careful where that leads . ``""",,
31750,8267,"""It does n't matter if it 's 'earth shattering ' or not . By admitting that we hold different standards for the Bible proves my entire point : hypocrisy on the part of skeptics . More proof to prove my point , thanks ! It does not matter what the document contains ! The same procedure should be done for every document . What the writing says is irrelevant to its authenticity !""","""What ? ! Then how do we discount the Gospel of Thomas or any of the gnostic gospels ? How are they wrong and the canonical gospels true ? If historians held the `` it does not matter what the document contains `` standard , there 'd be no knowing anything .""",DISAGREE,"""does n't matter shattering admitting Bible hypocrisy skeptics document contains irrelevant""","""Gospel Thomas gnostic gospels canonical gospels historians standard knowing anything .""",,
31756,8268,"""All of these nations have had one gun ban after another , after enacting registration schemes . Do you have the nerve to deny this fact ?""","""Cherry picking again .""",DISAGREE,"""All of these nations have had one gun ban after another , after enacting registration schemes .""","""Cherry picking again .""",,
31757,8268,"""All of these nations have had one gun ban after another , after enacting registration schemes . Do you have the nerve to deny this fact ?""","""Cherry picking again .""",DISAGREE,"""All of these nations have had one gun ban after another , after enacting registration schemes""","""Cherry picking again .""",,
31762,8269,"""Why should regular people , simply looking to sell off a few pieces of their collection , be forced to abide by business regulations instituted for organized companies that 're about making a profit ?""","""Well , my point is that they ( I , you , or any collector ) should n't be forced but rather , that it is a smart thing to do in order to make sure you are not selling a firearm to a felon ( which could land you in prison ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Why should regular people , simply looking to sell off a few pieces of their collection""","""my point is that they ( I , you , or any collector""",,
31768,8270,"""Brady , I wonder if you 'd think differently if those two guys got away , raped your wife , killed your kids , burned your house , and you somehow knew that they could 've been stopped back in Texas .""","""Well we are waiting for the answer Mr.Brady , how say you ? would you think differently ? or are you gon na dodge Ethmi 's hypothetical question , which is by the way a damned good one .""",AGREE,"""Brady , I wonder if you 'd think differently if those two guys got away , raped your wife , killed your kids , burned your house , and you somehow knew that they could 've been stopped back in Texas .""","""Well we are waiting for the answer Mr.Brady , how say you ? would you think differently ? or are you gon na dodge Ethmi 's hypothetical question""",,
31787,8274,"""Well , I would agree that as many constitutional ammendments probably would not have passed , but I certainly do n't think they all would not have been passed , and I do n't think that Massachusettes allowing same-sex marriage was a bad thing . Constitutional ammendments are difficult to overcome , but no one can ever change a law if people are n't willing to take a stand and fight for it . Can you tell that I love the quote in Jyoshu 's signature ?""","""I believe the Congress in Mass is still fighting what their Supreme Court did and I am pretty sure they will be trying to pass and amendment there in the next year ........... It will be very interesting to see what happens ..............""",AGREE,"""but I certainly do n't think they all would not have been passed , and I do n't think that Massachusettes allowing same-sex marriage was a bad thing .""","""I believe the Congress in Mass is still fighting what their Supreme Court did and I am pretty sure they will be trying to pass and amendment there in the next year""",,
31794,8275,"""Fortunately , the Bolshevik Revolution failed . 1989 , the Berlin Wall came a-tumbling down , along with Soviet Ideology . Communism is a failed philosophy and the free world has soundly rejected it .""","""Of course the bolshevik revolution was doomed from the start as Russia was not indsutrialised and the revolution was imposed by a minority of the bourgeoisie rather than a mass movement of the proletariat ( not that there was a proletariat in Russia at the time ) .""",AGREE,"""Fortunately , the Bolshevik Revolution failed .""","""the revolution was imposed by a minority of the bourgeoisie rather than a mass movement of the proletariat ( not that there was a proletariat in Russia at the time ) .""",,
31819,8282,"""Not ALL of them ? ! ! ! Come on , Simone , it 's doctors like Tiller that slaughter thousands , not their typical adversary .""","""Thousands of fertilized eggs .""",DISAGREE,"""Come on , Simone , it 's doctors like Tiller that slaughter thousands ,""","""Thousands of fertilized eggs .""",,
31829,8284,"""I 'm really not so sure about Obama 's healthcare plan , when I read it it seems kind of wishy-washy ... # like what does `` Reform the insurance market to increase competition by taking on anticompetitive activity that drives up prices without improving quality of care. `` actually mean ? # In practice ? # I 'm more interested in the Health Care for America plan more , it & # 8217 ; s a proposal put together by the political scientist Jacob Hacker with the support of the Economic Policy Institute . I & # 8217 ; d suggest reading Thinking Big to get a better idea of the plan , but the basic idea is that employers pay money into a public fund , enough to cover their workers. # The public fund should have quality coverage for all , including preventive care. # Workers get to choose - keep your insurance , choose a different private plan , or join a public health insurance plan without a private insurer middleman , pick your healthcare providers and doctors. # Employers choose too . Those who prefer not to shoulder the burden of providing coverage as good as the law requires can decide to enroll their workers in the public plan at a modest cost. # HCFA and Medicare would function as a single nationwide insurance pool covering close to half the population . So basically either the public plan attracts most Americans , and our system gradually evolves into single-payer or because the floor prevents a race to the bottom , the public-private competition raises the bar on care and efficiency , improving quality and cutting costs , even in the private insurance plans. # The standards would be kept by a strong government watchdog. # What do you think ?""","""I think you are on to something . The problem I see is that any proponent of a plan such as this will have toi take on both the health insurance lobby and the pharma lobby and their bottomless well of $ $ $ and propaganda . Here 's hoping now that there 's a new sheriff in town .""",AGREE,"""I 'm really not so sure about Obama 's healthcare plan , when I read it it seems kind of wishy-washy""","""I think you are on to something . The problem I see is that any proponent""",,
31831,8285,"""How can something come out of nothing ? It seems that before that first thing that existed something had to exist before that .""","""Yes . We all ask this question of creationists who propose that the universe was created out of nothing - poof ! But science does n't try to answer that question . We do know that the universe began expanding about 13.7 billion years ago . What went before that and the cause for the expansion is n't known and at present , and may never be knowable . However , we do know that particles can and do spring into existence from nothing , for no apparent reason . Google `` Casimir effect `` and read about one example . Wikipedia will probably be the 3rd entry . This something from nothing is an effect from the zero-point energy of a vacuum .""",DISAGREE,"""How can something come out of nothing ?""","""We all ask this question of creationists who propose that the universe was created out of nothing science does n't try to answer that question .""",,
31842,8287,"""If I was to ask a religious person of a provable way that he found out about his belief he would have to say that he was told . If the person that told him was asked the same thing he would have to say the same answer . Now of course it can go back wards like that for ever , it has to go back to three  “ possible ” beginnings : some one lied , some one was insane/delusional/ect , or there was divine intervention/ect .""","""Actually , the answer might depend more on the nature of the question , or the particular religious cult of the person being asked , etc . In questions of science , fundamentalists will tell you that the answer was revealed to them by their god in their holy scripture . On the other hand , you are characterizing religion as insanity . I think that you really mean that when religion is offered as science , then that is insane .""",DISAGREE,"""If I was to ask a religious person of a provable way that he found out about his belief he would have to say that he was told""","""I think that you really mean that when religion is offered as science , then that is insane""",,
31846,8288,"""A lab in Washington State was able to mineralize wood in matter of days , not the millions of years scientist claim it takes to occur . Not to mention a new onslaught of YEC 's saying , 'See , I told you so. `` I bet Kent Hovind is folding this information into a new presentation as we speak .""","""The link takes me to the USA Today site but gives a message `` The requested document was not found `` . Please post the article .""",DISAGREE,"""Not to mention a new onslaught of YEC 's saying , 'See , I told you so. ``""","""The link takes me to the USA""",,
31871,8295,"""Of course , by that logic , we ca n't prove that the laws of physics exist even though we observe them all the time . The same applies to the existance of other stars , the theory that bacteria and viruses cause disease , and , of course , the existance of a god . Not only that , but you ca n't be sure that you are even on 4forums debating ; you might be drugged or in a VR machine . no , my logic has nothing to do with the above paragraph .""","""Yes , but by that logic ( mine ) , that is true . Do n't attempt to accept my first statement without accepting my second . They use the same logic .""",DISAGREE,"""Of course , by that logic , we ca n't prove that the laws of physics exist even though we observe them all the time . The same applies to the existance of other stars , the theory that bacteria and viruses cause disease , and , of course , the existance of a god . Not only that , but you ca n't be sure that you are even on 4forums debating ; you might be drugged or in a VR machine . no , my logic has nothing to do with the above paragraph .""","""but by that logic . n't to my the same""",,
31887,8299,"""In fact , it is in contrast to generally accepted biological rules ( life does NOT come from nonliving matter ) .""","""Well , it HAD to . How else did it get here ? Even in the genesis myth , life came from non-life .""",DISAGREE,"""In fact , it is in contrast to generally accepted biological rules ( life does NOT come from nonliving matter ) .""","""Well , it HAD to . How else did it get here ? Even in the genesis myth , life came from non-life .""",,
31892,8300,"""or bs .""","""Yes .""",DISAGREE,"""or bs .""","""Yes .""",,
31895,8301,"""Sorry , but you ca n't have your cake and eat it too -- you ca n't separate issues regarding homosexuality from religion questions as far as many people are concerned . You do n't get to simplify a complex issue so easily . Homosexual issues ca n't be adequately discussed outside a context that includes religion .""","""Because that is your only excuse ? Sorry chum , you still do n't get seperation of church and state . If you want to debate religion , take it to the religion forum .""",DISAGREE,"""Homosexual issues ca n't be adequately discussed outside a context that includes religion .""","""Because that is your only excuse ?""",,
31903,8303,"""All those things would just ask for trouble just as putting up the no guns sign could . There is no benefit to them . I do n't know how this seems logical to you that people should be willing to put up these signs if they do n't have a gun . I 'm sure you would n't put up a sign saying you were not home or put up a sign detailing your computer 's IP address and its security system or lack thereof . It takes about one ounce of intelligence to realize that it would be stupid to do this . However , you can have no gun in the house and use the same signs that Kelvin mentioned . This is no different than a person putting up a sign showing what security system is protecting there home even if they do n't have a security system . It is the poor mans security system . So since we are on the topic of using signs to encourage or discourage violence , would n't you agree you can play on criminal 's fear of guns without actually owning a gun ? I would say that you can .""","""You just proved the DETERANCE of a gun on crime , The deterance of SOME people Carriing concealed ... Just like your poor mans sign . Do you get it ? Yes we agree on the last point but that is done by the people who choose to carry that makes criminals think twice about attacking you ... He does not know if you are armed or not . BTW hows your brother ? You gettin that all fixed ? I only ask as this is a most serious subject you brought up and I am truly concerned for you and your families well being .""",DISAGREE,"""detailing computer 's IP address intelligence Kelvin mentioned encourage discourage violence criminal 's fear owning a gun ?""","""DETERANCE The deterance concealed criminals attacking BTW concerned""",,
31914,8304,"""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law ( which says otherwise ) always trumps local law .""","""but there is no federal law that says children cant tote around guns their parents own how many times do I have to explain it you""",DISAGREE,"""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law ( which says otherwise ) always trumps local law .""","""but there is no federal law that says children cant tote around guns their parents own how many times do I have to explain it you""",,
31935,8306,"""They would open up to sicknesses far more easily when wounded , hardly the sort of thing a species wants .""","""Again , modern birds seem to do fine as do gliding mammals such as flying squirrels .""",DISAGREE,"""They would open up to sicknesses hardly the sort of thing a species wants .""","""modern birds gliding mammals such as flying squirrels .""",,
31947,8307,"""I think you , The Barbarian , and Close_slave_can are basically asking the same question . The problem is , you are all trying to look at these predictions through the lense of the evolutionary paradigm .""","""Well , the question I am asking is for you to provide a valid scientific prediction based on creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""trying to look predictions lense evolutionary paradigm""","""Well the question I am asking provide a valid scientific prediction creationism""",,
31939,8307,"""I think you , The Barbarian , and Close_slave_can are basically asking the same question . The problem is , you are all trying to look at these predictions through the lense of the evolutionary paradigm .""","""Well , the question I am asking is for you to provide a valid scientific prediction based on creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""The Barbarian you are all trying to look at these predictions through the lense of the evolutionary""","""I am asking is for you to provide a valid scientific based on creationism""",,
31968,8318,"""And it IS based on the ability to pay ... you just want me to pay for someone else 's and in the most inefficient way possible .""","""Well , at least you have that right . The cheapest and most efficient way of delivering health care is through single payer financed by taxes . Every single study ever done demonstrates that the most efficiently run health care system is Medicare . It functions with a 2 % overhead . As I hope you know , insurance is based on the principal of risk-spreading , and the larger the pool the more the risk is spread . Even now , if you are healthy and privately `` insured `` you are paying for others ' health care . You pay premiums and the benefits go to those who are in need of benefits . The only difference is that you support all the clones and drones in the health care `` industry `` who come between the physician and the delivery of services . Like so many on the so-called libertarian right , you have made a fetish of the market . Keep on drinking the Kool-Aid that Alyssa Rosenblum dispenses in trash like The Fountainhead""",DISAGREE,"""you just want me to pay for someone else 's and in the most inefficient way possible .""","""The cheapest and most efficient way of delivering health care is through single payer financed by taxes .""",,
31991,8333,"""Look at S Africa , where illegal posession of a firearm can net you the death penalty . Besides the highest murder rate in the western world , and the fact that they drive around with flamethrowers on their cars because carjackings and violent thefts are so common , it is virtually a pacifist utopia .""","""You started off with criticizing gun banning , but now you seem to be criticizing tough punishments for criminals . A May 2006 article in the Cape Times said that `` National law currently provides for a sentence of 25 years for illegal firearm possession. `` http : //www.capetimes.co.za/index.php ... icleId=3230121 So if the death penalty is the punishment for illegal gun possession then I suppose the law must have changed recently . I wonder if the people who claim that we do n't need more gun laws but just tougher punishments for people who break current gun laws would support such a penalty .""",DISAGREE,"""a firearm can net you the death penalty""","""A May 2006 article in the Cape Times said that `` National law currently provides for a sentence of 25 years for illegal firearm possession""",,
32020,8337,"""You say , `` The universe and earth are very old . We know this as a fact. `` What is meant by `` old `` ?""","""I can not remember the latest figures , but the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the universe is around 13 billion years old I think .""",DISAGREE,"""You say , `` The universe and earth are very old . We know this as a fact. `` What is meant by `` old `` ?""","""I can not remember the latest figures , but the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old and the universe is around 13 billion years old I think .""",,
32030,8339,"""Very interesting , and I agree with you . However , one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers is that they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""It 's not that we pro life people do n't care about womens rights it 's that we care about the babies rights too . They wo n't do abortion after the 3rd month right ? Well the baby is living , it has a heartbeat , it has nerves , eyes , and all that . I think it is sickening when people say that the baby or fetus whatever you want to call it does n't feel anything . Everyone always says `` what if they get raped ? Would you have the baby ? `` Well for one only 1 % of abortions are done because of rape . Secondly if you are raped you can go to the hospital and tell them what happened and they will do an emergency IUD . Why does the women get to choose who can come into the world ? They are going to kill it and they do n't care . You never knew what the baby could have been . They could have been the one to find the cure to cancer , aids , or another uncurable disease . Your not giving the baby a chance and that is wrong and not fair . Thats my opinion .""",DISAGREE,"""one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers is that they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""Your not giving the baby a chance and that is wrong and not fair .""",,
32026,8339,"""Very interesting , and I agree with you . However , one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers is that they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""It 's not that we pro life people do n't care about womens rights it 's that we care about the babies rights too . They wo n't do abortion after the 3rd month right ? Well the baby is living , it has a heartbeat , it has nerves , eyes , and all that . I think it is sickening when people say that the baby or fetus whatever you want to call it does n't feel anything . Everyone always says `` what if they get raped ? Would you have the baby ? `` Well for one only 1 % of abortions are done because of rape . Secondly if you are raped you can go to the hospital and tell them what happened and they will do an emergency IUD . Why does the women get to choose who can come into the world ? They are going to kill it and they do n't care . You never knew what the baby could have been . They could have been the one to find the cure to cancer , aids , or another uncurable disease . Your not giving the baby a chance and that is wrong and not fair . Thats my opinion .""",DISAGREE,"""Very interesting , and I agree with you . However , one thing to consider while debating pro-lifers is that they generally do not care about women 's rights .""","""It 's not that we pro life people do n't care about womens rights it 's that we care about the babies rights ``""",,
32040,8341,"""I saw Bowling for Columbine . It was excellent . It showed how many Americans have this idea that problems are solved with violence . That 's the way that problems are often dealt with domestically and overseas . That 's why America drops so many bombs on people in foreign nations and kills them . They interviewed some Canadians in the film and the Canadians says that they like to negotiate and work things out . That 's the way they solve problems- not through violence and killing people . I think this is very relevant to the gun culture in America . Those in the gun culture tend to have the attitude that problems can be solved with violence- thus the necessity of owning an instrument of death and destruction . I remember that Michael Moore went into the house of one gun owner and the gun owner showed him the loaded gun that he slept with under his pillow . I think that 's dangerous and totally stupid to sleep with a gun under your pillow . The film also examined famous people from the gun culture like Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh . Moore also accomplished some good things . He went to K-mart with some victims of Columbine and convinced K-mart to stop selling handgun ammunition .""","""And you do not have an agenda ... oh and we should be more like the Canadiens ? Why does n't Canada fund a militrary ? And what do they do with that 80 % tax rate ... obnoxious ......""",DISAGREE,"""That 's why America drops so many bombs on people in foreign nations and kills them . They interviewed some Canadians in the film and the Canadians says that they like to negotiate and work things out .""","""you do not have an agenda ... oh and we should be more like the Canadiens ? Why does n't Canada fund a militrary ? And what do they do with that 80 % tax rate""",,
32036,8341,"""I saw Bowling for Columbine . It was excellent . It showed how many Americans have this idea that problems are solved with violence . That 's the way that problems are often dealt with domestically and overseas . That 's why America drops so many bombs on people in foreign nations and kills them . They interviewed some Canadians in the film and the Canadians says that they like to negotiate and work things out . That 's the way they solve problems- not through violence and killing people . I think this is very relevant to the gun culture in America . Those in the gun culture tend to have the attitude that problems can be solved with violence- thus the necessity of owning an instrument of death and destruction . I remember that Michael Moore went into the house of one gun owner and the gun owner showed him the loaded gun that he slept with under his pillow . I think that 's dangerous and totally stupid to sleep with a gun under your pillow . The film also examined famous people from the gun culture like Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh . Moore also accomplished some good things . He went to K-mart with some victims of Columbine and convinced K-mart to stop selling handgun ammunition .""","""And you do not have an agenda ... oh and we should be more like the Canadiens ? Why does n't Canada fund a militrary ? And what do they do with that 80 % tax rate ... obnoxious ......""",DISAGREE,"""I saw Bowling for Columbine . It was excellent""","""And you do not have an agenda ... oh and we should be more like the Canadiens ? Why does n't Canada fund a militrary ?""",,
32045,8342,""".. a piece of genetic material taken from your own body and inserted into a sterile egg to create a batch of undifferentiated cells to reinsert into your body to save your life ?""","""The stem cells that are used for such potentially life-saving procedures are at such an extremely early stage of development that there is no biological possibility that the beginnings of a mind exist . There is absolutely no feeling , no emotion , no thought , no sense of pain . The batch of cells is still an object . They are the very beginnings of the body where the beginnings of the mind ( or , for that matter , a soul , if one is of the opinion that a soul must include some sense of mind ) are very far off . However , unless I am mistaken in the biology of this particular batch of cells , they could potentially develop into an actual person ( where , for me , person means not only body but some sense of mind or soul as well ) . This sense of potential personhood should not be taken lightly . This would not be a case of a woman 's right over her own body . This would be the case of deliberately generating living human cells ( note : this is not equal to a living person ) for medical reasons benefiting a living person . In the balance of having some respect for the idea that these cells could potentially become a person ( again , still far off from being actual people - i.e . starting to have a mind ) , I would only condone using such stem cells if it is a case of saving the life of an existing person - be it myself or anyone else . I would not , for example , condone use of stem cells to help alleviate a medical condition which is not life threatening .""",DISAGREE,"""piece of genetic material taken from your own body and inserted into a sterile egg to create a batch of undifferentiated cells to reinsert into your body to save your life""","""This would be the case of deliberately generating living human cells ( note : this is not equal to a living person ) for medical reasons benefiting a living person . In the balance of having some respect for the idea that these cells could potentially become a person""",,
32044,8342,""".. a piece of genetic material taken from your own body and inserted into a sterile egg to create a batch of undifferentiated cells to reinsert into your body to save your life ?""","""The stem cells that are used for such potentially life-saving procedures are at such an extremely early stage of development that there is no biological possibility that the beginnings of a mind exist . There is absolutely no feeling , no emotion , no thought , no sense of pain . The batch of cells is still an object . They are the very beginnings of the body where the beginnings of the mind ( or , for that matter , a soul , if one is of the opinion that a soul must include some sense of mind ) are very far off . However , unless I am mistaken in the biology of this particular batch of cells , they could potentially develop into an actual person ( where , for me , person means not only body but some sense of mind or soul as well ) . This sense of potential personhood should not be taken lightly . This would not be a case of a woman 's right over her own body . This would be the case of deliberately generating living human cells ( note : this is not equal to a living person ) for medical reasons benefiting a living person . In the balance of having some respect for the idea that these cells could potentially become a person ( again , still far off from being actual people - i.e . starting to have a mind ) , I would only condone using such stem cells if it is a case of saving the life of an existing person - be it myself or anyone else . I would not , for example , condone use of stem cells to help alleviate a medical condition which is not life threatening .""",DISAGREE,"""piece of genetic material taken from your own body and inserted into a sterile egg to create a batch of undifferentiated cells to reinsert into your body to save your life ?""","""The stem cells that are used for such potentially life-saving procedures are at such an extremely early stage of development that there is no biological possibility that the beginnings of a mind exist .""",,
32047,8343,"""tortured ? you shut ur mouth .. , ... if ur not achristian then yes , i will pray for you ....""","""Let 's try to use a little kindness and common sense and not tell people on a public forum to `` shut ur mouth `` . Read the forum rules , they might help your focus . -Mach""",DISAGREE,"""you shut ur mouth .. , ... if ur not achristian then yes , i will pray for you""","""Let 's try to use a little kindness and common sense and not tell people on a public forum to `` shut ur mouth""",,
32055,8344,"""To obey the law is to break the law . This is what happens when governments run amok . First the guns , now swords , what next cars , shoes , toasters ? After all these australian subjects do not need these weapons ! !""","""Your argument , I believe . The one I said does n't hold water . It appears to claim that the placing of restrictions upon items specifically designed for the killing of other human beings is somehow comparable to and a prelude for the banning of everyday items whose intended use is in no way connected to harm of others . Your title then equates this with a step towards a form of government in which one person is afforded executive , legislative and judiciary power over the country they control .""",DISAGREE,"""To obey the law is to break the law . This is what happens when governments run amok .""","""Your argument , I believe .""",,
32090,8351,"""Evolution is supposed to be science , and is said to not address religion .""","""And the scientific papers do n't . The problem here is that creationists do n't read the scientific papers . In fact , most ca n't even understand them .""",AGREE,"""Evolution is supposed to be science""","""The problem here is that creationists do n't read the scientific papers .""",,
32096,8367,"""There is of course a more insidious uses of science . In the early 1970s a group of radical feminists went so far as you science to suggest that it was physically impossible for a woman to achieve sexual orgasm whilst having penetrative sex . Even if the woman experienced an orgasm , she was said to be deceiving her self .... `` That even in a woman ? s sexuality , there is deceit on the part of men , and complacency on the part of some women `` in Koedt , A . '' The Myth of Vaginal Orgasm. `` in Koedt , A . & amp ; Levine , E. & amp ; Rapone , A. , ( eds. ) . ( 1973 ) . '' Radical Feminism `` . Quadrangle Books , New York , p204 * *""","""I see . So you must be a female to know for a fact that this is false . Actually I 'm not interested in that kind of science and I do n't care . I have n't seen the papers but I suspect the book was written for mercenary reasons . What does that have to do with cosmology , physics , astrophysics , geology , molecular biology , genetics and on and on ? Someone mentioned that you seem to mistrust science and it seems that you do .""",DISAGREE,"""There is of course a more insidious uses of science . In the early 1970s a group of radical feminists went so far as you science to suggest that it was physically impossible for a woman to achieve sexual orgasm whilst having penetrative sex . Even if the woman experienced an orgasm , she was said to be deceiving her self .... `` That even in a woman ? s sexuality , there is deceit on the part of men , and complacency on the part of some women `` in Koedt , A . '' The Myth of Vaginal Orgasm. `` in Koedt , A . & Levine , E. & Rapone , A. , ( eds. ) . ( 1973 ) . '' Radical Feminism `` . Quadrangle Books , New York , p204 * *""","""I see . So you must be a female to know for a fact that this is false . Actually I 'm not interested in that kind of science and I do n't care . I have n't seen the papers but I suspect the book was written for mercenary reasons . What does that have to do with cosmology , physics , astrophysics , geology , molecular biology , genetics and on and on ? Someone mentioned that you seem to mistrust science and it seems that you do .""",,
32098,8367,"""There is of course a more insidious uses of science . In the early 1970s a group of radical feminists went so far as you science to suggest that it was physically impossible for a woman to achieve sexual orgasm whilst having penetrative sex . Even if the woman experienced an orgasm , she was said to be deceiving her self .... `` That even in a woman ? s sexuality , there is deceit on the part of men , and complacency on the part of some women `` in Koedt , A . '' The Myth of Vaginal Orgasm. `` in Koedt , A . & amp ; Levine , E. & amp ; Rapone , A. , ( eds. ) . ( 1973 ) . '' Radical Feminism `` . Quadrangle Books , New York , p204 * *""","""I see . So you must be a female to know for a fact that this is false . Actually I 'm not interested in that kind of science and I do n't care . I have n't seen the papers but I suspect the book was written for mercenary reasons . What does that have to do with cosmology , physics , astrophysics , geology , molecular biology , genetics and on and on ? Someone mentioned that you seem to mistrust science and it seems that you do .""",DISAGREE,"""There is of course a more insidious uses of science . a woman to achieve sexual orgasm whilst having penetrative sex . `` ''""","""you must be a female to know for a fact that this is false I suspect the book was written for mercenary reasons .""",,
32108,8370,"""The fact you always ignore is your not just doing it to your body .....""","""This is a separate issue , Voice of Reason . Some did n't understand how pro-choice people can say they personally would n't do something and/or think something is wrong but still support other 's right to do it , and that 's what I was answering .""",DISAGREE,"""The fact you always ignore is your not just doing it to your body .....""","""This is a separate issue , Voice of Reason . Some did n't understand how pro-choice people can say they personally would n't do something and/or think something is wrong but still support other 's right to do it , and that 's what I was answering""",,
32116,8372,"""I saw a picture of the Pope blessing the register . Now I 'm pretty sure that the Pope is smart guy .""","""And ?""",DISAGREE,"""I saw a picture of the Pope blessing the register .""","""And ?""",,
32132,8375,"""What amazes me is someone could actually believe a constitutional ban on gay marriage is in anyway a contributing factor to divorce rates .""","""Simone continues to amaze us all""",AGREE,"""What amazes me is someone could actually believe a constitutional ban on gay marriage is in anyway a contributing factor to divorce rates .""","""Simone continues to amaze us all""",,
32129,8375,"""What amazes me is someone could actually believe a constitutional ban on gay marriage is in anyway a contributing factor to divorce rates .""","""Simone continues to amaze us all""",AGREE,"""constitutional ban on gay marriage""","""Simone continues to amaze us all""",,
32140,8377,"""Not where I come from . .""","""YOu mean they do n't eat , sleep , pass wastes , fight ( not neccesarily physically ) for dominance in their social setting , react to the opposite sex , put on displays for the opposite sex , and things like that ? How very odd .""",DISAGREE,"""Not where I come from .""","""mean they do n't eat , sleep , pass wastes , fight ( not neccesarily physically ) for dominance in their social setting , react to the opposite sex , put on displays for the opposite sex , and things like that ?""",,
32161,8381,"""Then why does n't He answer prayers like He says He will in the Bible ? So is Jesus , aka God , a liar ? Or was not even one of the millions of believers who prayed for Terri Schiavo 's life to be saved really God 's child ? Gee , I wonder how many people out there are being led by a pastor , priest , or what have you , that prayed but God did n't listen because that religious leader is a fraud ? Hmmm , maybe the or molestation of young boys , y , and so on , by religious leaders is more widespread than anyone could have imagined ? ! ? ! ? !""","""lets see im going to ask you some questions . are you ? are you a ? do you have blue eyes ? do you have brown eyes ? now if you say NO to one of those things isnt that cosidered an answer ? where i come from its yes or no.2 possible answers . not just yes every time to get what you want .""",DISAGREE,"""Then why does n't He answer prayers like He says He will in the Bible ? So is Jesus , aka God , a liar ? Or was not even one of the millions of believers who prayed for Terri Schiavo 's life to be saved really God 's child ? Gee , I wonder how many people out there are being led by a pastor , priest , or what have you , that prayed but God did n't listen because that religious leader is a fraud ? Hmmm , maybe the or molestation of young boys , y , and so on , by religious leaders is more widespread than anyone could have imagined ? ! ? ! ? !""","""lets see im going to ask you some questions . are you ? are you a ? do you have blue eyes ? do you have brown eyes ? now if you say NO to one of those things isnt that cosidered an answer ? where i come from its yes or no.2 possible answers . not just yes every time to get what you want .""",,
32165,8382,"""Er . . . just a quick question . Why would other bats need to be able to receive and interpret this new sonar-producing capability ? Bats use their sonar as echo-location , not as a means of communication with others , do n't they ? Does this reveal a hole in your thinking ? Smiley""","""sonar is more than that ; it 's a method of communication . http : //dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20041025/bat.html Whenever females heard sonar sounds from another female , they would call less frequently , likely to tune in to what the other female was communicating . According to the researchers , female bats interact mainly with other females in complex hierarchies during their lives , so that could be why they take more of an interest in echolocation sounds from their own sex . ..... She told Discovery News , `` The connection of the two studies is in the idea that bat communication is more complex than previously documented , since research is finding a variety of social calls to be communicating territory defense and mate attraction , as well as sonar calls , previously thought to only function in prey capture and navigation , to also have a communication role. ``""",AGREE,"""Er . . . just a quick question . Why would other bats need to be able to receive and interpret this new sonar-producing capability ?""","""sonar is more than that ; it 's a method of ``""",,
32183,8385,"""Please , so you actually advocate `` down-grading `` any union which does not raise children ? That 's simply insane ! Not to mention also highly unconstitutional .""","""most straight people get marry intending to have kids .""",DISAGREE,"""down-grading `` does not raise children ? simply insane ! highly unconstitutional .""","""most straight people marry intending to have kids""",,
32192,8388,"""Then , how much money should spend on the war on terror ? Should we bankrupt the country to do it ? Is it necessary to spend so much that we go bankrupt , or is it better to wisely spend the money we have and to fight an intellegent war against terror ?""","""If we bankrupt the country , the war on terror wo n't be the reason . Wasteful domestic spending is the only reason we have trouble funding the war on terror . We need to get intellegent with domestic spending . We could start with the $ 7 billion EPA .""",DISAGREE,"""Then , how much money should spend on the war on terror ? Should we bankrupt the country to do it ? Is it necessary to spend so much that we go bankrupt , or is it better to wisely spend the money we have and to fight an intellegent war against terror ?""","""we bankrupt the country , the war on terror wo n't be the reason . Wasteful domestic spending is the only reason we have trouble funding the war on terror . We need to get intellegent with domestic spending . We could start with the $ 7 billion EPA .""",,
32197,8391,"""It was a pretty clear rebuttle of the idea that the ToE breeds social elitism , Marxism , and Nazisim .""","""... which -- although a very good point when it comes to refuting creationist claptrap -- is not even the major issue of this forum . Undesirable consequences of an effect do not make that effect false or nonexistent . Gravity `` breeds `` falling deaths , which are bad , so let 's maintain that gravity does n't exist ...""",AGREE,"""It was a pretty clear rebuttle of the idea that the ToE breeds social elitism , Marxism , and Nazisim .""","""although a very good point when it comes to refuting creationist claptrap -- is not even the major issue of this forum . Undesirable consequences of an effect do not make that effect false or nonexistent . ``""",,
32204,8401,"""If you misinterpret my posts , I will misinterpret yours . I meant `` unlikely `` to mean `` probably not true. `` That does not mean that it is necessarily false . Without much data in that example , it is impossible to tell for sure what is `` true. ``""","""Really ? Let 's go to the OP . You said `` What this post explains is that Occam ’ s razor denies the accuracy of the bible because it makes too many assumptions to be more likely than the scientific explanation . Therefore , it is poor logic to accept the bible without further evidence. `` Now , if we are not `` to accept the bible `` , what are we supposed to do ? '' See my first example for a reason that we should keep our beliefs uncomplicated whenever possible . If we didn ’ t , we would be swamped with thousands of explanations for very simple events , and most of the explanations would be illogical. `` What do you mean by `` illogical `` . In context it seems that you are saying `` wrong `` . Are you ? If not , specify in detail how do you think an `` illogical `` belief would be correct ? '' Except that Occam 's razor is used for comparing hypotheses. `` Back to a scientific use of parsimony . What are we comparing them for ? '' Most likely `` or for which hypothesis is true and which is false ? I submit that you are being disingenuous . You actually mean that you can use parsimony to decide which hypothesis is true , but , when pressed that this does n't work , fall back to `` most likely `` . So let me ask , how `` most likely `` ? What are the odds ? How do you compute them ? Is `` most likely `` 51 % ot 49 % or 100 % to 0 % or somewhere in between ? Or does it change for each situation ? If `` most likely `` changes , then how do we know what you actually mean ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you misinterpret my posts , I will misinterpret yours . ``""","""Really ? Let 's go to the OP . You said `` What this post explains is that Occam ’ s razor denies the accuracy of the bible because it makes too many assumptions to be more likely than the scientific explanation . Therefore , it is poor logic to accept the bible without further ''""",,
32205,8401,"""If you misinterpret my posts , I will misinterpret yours . I meant `` unlikely `` to mean `` probably not true. `` That does not mean that it is necessarily false . Without much data in that example , it is impossible to tell for sure what is `` true. ``""","""Really ? Let 's go to the OP . You said `` What this post explains is that Occam ’ s razor denies the accuracy of the bible because it makes too many assumptions to be more likely than the scientific explanation . Therefore , it is poor logic to accept the bible without further evidence. `` Now , if we are not `` to accept the bible `` , what are we supposed to do ? '' See my first example for a reason that we should keep our beliefs uncomplicated whenever possible . If we didn ’ t , we would be swamped with thousands of explanations for very simple events , and most of the explanations would be illogical. `` What do you mean by `` illogical `` . In context it seems that you are saying `` wrong `` . Are you ? If not , specify in detail how do you think an `` illogical `` belief would be correct ? '' Except that Occam 's razor is used for comparing hypotheses. `` Back to a scientific use of parsimony . What are we comparing them for ? '' Most likely `` or for which hypothesis is true and which is false ? I submit that you are being disingenuous . You actually mean that you can use parsimony to decide which hypothesis is true , but , when pressed that this does n't work , fall back to `` most likely `` . So let me ask , how `` most likely `` ? What are the odds ? How do you compute them ? Is `` most likely `` 51 % ot 49 % or 100 % to 0 % or somewhere in between ? Or does it change for each situation ? If `` most likely `` changes , then how do we know what you actually mean ?""",DISAGREE,"""I will misinterpret yours . I meant `` unlikely `` to mean `` probably not true. `` That does not mean that it is necessarily false .""","""Really ? Let 's go to the OP . You said `` What this post explains is that Occam ’ s razor denies the accuracy of the bible""",,
32237,8410,"""You have fallen into the same trap as the IDers . When we say `` designed `` there is an unspoken prepositional phrase -- `` by an intelligent entity `` . What is really meant by `` designed `` -- in both Paley and IDers -- is that plants and animals are manufactured . Just like the watch was manufactured .""","""But not all `` designs `` are manufactured . Take the repetitive ridges of sand on a beach . They are created by the motion of the water . Shall I remind you of the humorous story about the `` image of Jesus `` that attracted much attention , yet turned out to be a coincidence of shadows ? This is why I insist upon your defining the terms you 're using .""",DISAGREE,"""When we say `` designed `` there is an unspoken prepositional phrase -- `` by an intelligent entity `` . What is really meant by `` designed `` -- in both Paley and IDers -- is that plants and animals are manufactured . Just like the watch was manufactured .""","""But not all `` designs `` are manufactured . Take the repetitive ridges of sand on a beach . They are created by the motion of the water""",,
32239,8410,"""You have fallen into the same trap as the IDers . When we say `` designed `` there is an unspoken prepositional phrase -- `` by an intelligent entity `` . What is really meant by `` designed `` -- in both Paley and IDers -- is that plants and animals are manufactured . Just like the watch was manufactured .""","""But not all `` designs `` are manufactured . Take the repetitive ridges of sand on a beach . They are created by the motion of the water . Shall I remind you of the humorous story about the `` image of Jesus `` that attracted much attention , yet turned out to be a coincidence of shadows ? This is why I insist upon your defining the terms you 're using .""",DISAGREE,"""What is really meant by `` designed `` -- in both Paley and IDers -- is that plants and animals are manufactured .""","""But not all `` designs `` are manufactured .""",,
32242,8411,"""The family is the foundation of any society . A healthy family is the product of a healthy marriage . Not all marriages are healthy , but help is out there for them too . Anyone can choose to go to counseling and choose to pray to God , and HE will most certainly heal lives and marriages . A country is only as strong as its foundation . Our country is great because of its strong moral foundation . Look at the countries that have collapsed after continually turning their backs on God - the evidence is right there ! The government HAS GOT TO PROTECT MARRIAGE , because if it doesnt , this country will crumble ! If we listen to anyone on this issue , we should listen to FORMER HOMOSEXUALS ! They will tell you for themselves how sick they were , and now have found release from the chains of bondage ! they now have healthy relationships with the opposite sex . If they were supposed to be gay , and `` born with it `` .... then why are they so much happier and `` free `` now after saying goodbye to homosexuality ?""","""And 2 men ca n't have a perfectly healthy , loving , stable marriage ? Why not ? Honey , every country collapses eventually . It 's a cycle . An empire rises , reaches it 's peak , and falls . Every single one . Take a history class . The government somehow is supposed to protect marriage .... by saying it 's illegal ? What ? Former homosexual = celibate faker ! Or suicidal self-hater . Or bi that just ignores one half of their feelings . That 's about it .""",DISAGREE,"""A country is only as strong as its foundation . countries that have collapsed after continually turning their backs on God FORMER HOMOSEXUALS""","""every country collapses eventually . It 's a cycle celibate faker ! suicidal self-hater . bi that just ignores one half of their feelings""",,
32312,8428,"""As I see it the problem in this country is not guns . The problem is that our society has gotten soft on crime and pretty much gotten to the point of `` no one is responsible for their own behavior `` . Take the law suits against the gun manufacturer 's . Colt comes to mind . Someone used a Colt firearm in a murder and the victim 's family sued Colt for the wrongful death of a family member . The court 's basically said that colt should have known that their products may have been used in a crime and not sold them to someone who could have used it in the commision of a crime . That being the case , why ca n't the auto manufacturer 's be sued when one of their vehicles is used in the commision of a crime ? Why ca n't Ford or Chevy be sued when one of their vehicles is used in a DUI vehicular homicide ? The reasoning I have read is that the auto maker 's are unable to control the end use of their products . So how can one manufacturer be held responsible for the end use of their product and not another ? Another case in point . Less than a hundred years ago , if you were convicted of a murder you were sentenced to death and the sentence was carried out . Now if you murder somebody , you can plea bargain it down to involuntary manslaughter , get sentenced to 18 to 23 months , and be paroled in 9 to 12 month 's on good behavior . Now some would say the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment . To them I put this question . What do you call kidnapping a child from her bedroom , raping and sodomizing her , putting her on a hot engine block , then strangling her . Do n't know about the rest of society , but that qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment in my book . By the way , the guy that did this was sentenced to life in prison on the taxpayer 's dime . No longer does the punishment fit the crime in this country . We have put a price tag on human life and I must say it is a damn cheap one . Guns are not the problem in this country . The problem is a government who trying to erode our rights to further their own agenda . Now for those who say we have a police force to protect us , if you would actually read their purpose , you would see that the police force has no duty to protect the individual , only the public in general . I have quite a few friends at the local state police barracks and in general they are opposed to gun control . Most police organization who are for gun control who are for gun control are politically motivated . For those who are going to say I 'm a right wing nut job , I 'll give you this . I served my country in various special operations forces . I can not go into anymore more detail than i 'll give you here , so please do n't ask . Automatic weapons were designed for assualt purposes so I will give you that one . However , as a highly decorated combat veteran I will say this . The most dangerous and demoralizing weapon ever made was a sniper rifle . Death can come from anywhere at anytime . Most have an effective range well over any automatic weapon . Sniper rifles are basically modified hunting rifles that can be duplicated by any gunsmith worth his salt . The effective range on a 5.56mm round ( basically a .223 remington ) fired from an M-16 ( or An AR-15 ) is just over 450 meters . A 7.62 x 54 mm round ( a .308 , a very popular hunting round ) is about 1200 meters . To put this in perspective there is just over 1700 meters in a mile . I do carry a M1911 Colt .45 as a concealed carry weapon . After reading some of the other posts here , I must say I am deeply offended by someone saying that because I carry a CCW I 'm going to shoot someone over a fender bender . I will say that their are some who should n't be carrying a CCW . And I do take responsibilty for my weapons . Unfortunately . I have had to use my weapon on a couple of occasions . Most of the time simply brandishing the weapon and taking control of the situation is enough to end it in a positive way . Only once have I had to discharge my weapon in self defense . By the way , the criminal in on the receiving end of that one had a very long and violent criminal history . I have shed the same blood in the same mud as alot of others to insure that EVERYONE in this country has the freedom to have their own opinions about things . That is a right guarenteed in The Constitution of the United States . Just as it is a right for me to own arms of my choice . Some would say that my RKBA is outdated . To them I ask , what if I think your right to free speech or freedom to religion is outdated ? Should it be changed too ? There are no easy solutions to the problem we as a society are facing . But blaming guns or free speech for our problems is like saying flies cause garbage . It is easy to blame guns for our problems . But they are merely a tool , like a shovel , that unless put into use by a person or persons . it merely just sits there and does nothing . Our society has pushed the issue of not being responsible or held accoutable for your actions way to far . I do have a solution to these problems , but most would find it offensive . What the hell , I 've probably offended alot already , so here goes . We have a three time loser law , that if you have three felony convictions you are considered a career criminal . Now alot of those crimes involve firearms . So if you are convicted of three felony firearms crimes , you should get the death penalty to be carried out immediately . It will take some time to get the message across but iI do believe when the message gets out , firearms crimes will be reduced drastically . Well , I need to get some things done so I 'll write more later . Later all ......""","""I think you hit it pretty much on the money . Gun control does not cure anger , hate , and violence . Talk about responsibility . Gun grabbers blame you and me and our behavior for the violence in this country . They blame everyone except the one who pulls the trigger and takes human life .""",AGREE,"""As I see it the problem in this country is not ca n't Ford or Chevy be sued when one of their vehicles is used in a DUI vehicular homicide ?""","""I think you hit it pretty much on the money . Gun control does not cure anger , hate , and violence .""",,
32353,8432,"""Hey Monster , go to www.atheists.org/nogodblog and scroll down until you see the picture of Bush . He has a message for you""","""Yes he is telling me : `` This is what I am doing to my dog , and what I have been up to all this time as your president. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Hey Monster , go to www.atheists.org/nogodblog and scroll down until you see the picture of Bush""","""Yes he is telling me""",,
32348,8432,"""Hey Monster , go to www.atheists.org/nogodblog and scroll down until you see the picture of Bush . He has a message for you""","""Yes he is telling me : `` This is what I am doing to my dog , and what I have been up to all this time as your president. ``""",DISAGREE,"""He has a message for you""","""This is what I am doing to my dog , and what I have been up to all this time as your""",,
32354,8432,"""Hey Monster , go to www.atheists.org/nogodblog and scroll down until you see the picture of Bush . He has a message for you""","""Yes he is telling me : `` This is what I am doing to my dog , and what I have been up to all this time as your president. ``""",DISAGREE,"""Hey Monster , go to www.atheists.org/nogodblog""","""Yes he is telling me""",,
32362,8433,"""A slightly misleading title by the BBC , but an interesting article non the less ... http : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4056559.stm""","""Thanks for the link it was an interesting read . I found the comment in the second to last paragraph most intriguing : 'Scientists have also identified the smallest number of genes required to sustain life in a bacterial cell ( about 350 ) . If they can overcome the many technical hurdles of building a wholly artificial cell in the lab , it is conceivable they could `` create `` - albeit simple - `` life `` . ' Who knows what that line of research might lead us to ?""",AGREE,"""A slightly misleading title by the BBC , but an interesting article non the less""","""Thanks for the link it was an interesting read""",,
32355,8433,"""A slightly misleading title by the BBC , but an interesting article non the less ... http : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4056559.stm""","""Thanks for the link it was an interesting read . I found the comment in the second to last paragraph most intriguing : 'Scientists have also identified the smallest number of genes required to sustain life in a bacterial cell ( about 350 ) . If they can overcome the many technical hurdles of building a wholly artificial cell in the lab , it is conceivable they could `` create `` - albeit simple - `` life `` . ' Who knows what that line of research might lead us to ?""",AGREE,"""A slightly misleading title by the BBC , but an interesting article non the less""","""'Scientists have also identified the smallest number of genes required to sustain life in a bacterial cell ( about 350 ) .""",,
32364,8434,"""More like put on `` leave with pay `` aka `` taxpayer funded holiday `` while the woman is charged with `` assaulting a police officer `` to try and cover their misdeeds . At least that seems to be the usual tact in 21st century america .""","""If the taser led to the death of an innocent , they would have been charged with a crime . There is no doubt about that once the investigation was completed . But this is all irrelevant since the baby did n't die and was born without complications . This whole thread is founded upon a huge what if in order to demonize pro-lifers while ignoring what the pro-death advocates truly represent as they support infanticide for the sake of the convenience of irresponsible women .""",DISAGREE,"""and cover their misdeeds . At least that seems to be""","""convenience of irresponsible women .""",,
32376,8435,"""ServantOfChrist For every side of every issue you will find studies backing opposing theories . Whatever it is that you believe , if you search within your bias you will always find information and 'evidence ' to support it .""","""Whcih is why , in order to get to at least some semblance of the truth , one must look behind the report to the publication where is appears . There are very few outside the hard right religious radical lunatic fringe ( SoC for example ) who give credence to anything NARTH puts out given their biases . I have yet to see one of these folks explain how allowing same gender couples to marry will negatively impact their own marriages .""",AGREE,"""For every side of every issue you will find studies backing opposing theories . Whatever it is that you believe , if you search within your bias you will always find information and 'evidence ' to support it .""","""in order to get to at least some semblance of the truth , one must look behind the report to the publication where is""",,
32384,8443,"""`` The right was in the context of the citizen soldier of the conscript militia . In the eighteenth century private arms were never strictly private . The public had a claim for public purposes . Coxe was a strong Federalist . He was employed in Hamilton 's Treasury Department during the Whiskey Rebellion . He expressed no concerns that the enrollment and inventory requirements of the Militia Act would infringe on right of the people to keep and bear their private arms. `` http : //www.potowmack.org/thequotes.html # coxe""","""Private guns were completely private . They were personal property and could not be seized . It was the man that carried the weapon who was required to provide service , and required to provide his own weapon . Since the enrollment and inventory requirements were specifically to ensure that every man had his own private rifle , shot , powder , kit to fight with , it would seem rather stupid to worry that it was infringing on peoples right to bear arms , would n't it ? Contrast this with today , where registration schemes have been used in places like new york to provide lists for seizure or surrender of firearms . In the one case , you have a law that is meant to insure that everybody has a weapon , i the other , it is a law determined to limit the accessibility of weapons . You really do n't see the difference here ?""",DISAGREE,"""In the eighteenth century private arms were never strictly private .""","""Private guns were completely private . They were personal property and could not be seized .""",,
32386,8443,"""`` The right was in the context of the citizen soldier of the conscript militia . In the eighteenth century private arms were never strictly private . The public had a claim for public purposes . Coxe was a strong Federalist . He was employed in Hamilton 's Treasury Department during the Whiskey Rebellion . He expressed no concerns that the enrollment and inventory requirements of the Militia Act would infringe on right of the people to keep and bear their private arms. `` http : //www.potowmack.org/thequotes.html # coxe""","""Private guns were completely private . They were personal property and could not be seized . It was the man that carried the weapon who was required to provide service , and required to provide his own weapon . Since the enrollment and inventory requirements were specifically to ensure that every man had his own private rifle , shot , powder , kit to fight with , it would seem rather stupid to worry that it was infringing on peoples right to bear arms , would n't it ? Contrast this with today , where registration schemes have been used in places like new york to provide lists for seizure or surrender of firearms . In the one case , you have a law that is meant to insure that everybody has a weapon , i the other , it is a law determined to limit the accessibility of weapons . You really do n't see the difference here ?""",DISAGREE,"""In the eighteenth century private arms were never strictly private The public had a claim for public purposes enrollment and inventory requirements infringe on right of the people to keep and bear their private""","""Private guns were completely private They were personal property and could not be seized Since the enrollment and inventory requirements were specifically to ensure that every man had his own private rifle , shot , powder , kit to fight with , it would seem rather stupid to worry that it was infringing on peoples right to bear arms , would n't it ? In the one case , you have a law that is meant to insure that everybody has a weapon , i the other , it is a law determined to limit the accessibility of weapons""",,
32393,8445,"""How do you know if they WANT to believe in a deity ? They simply do n't .""","""and the others do n't want to believe ( hope there is n't ) a god""",DISAGREE,"""How do you know if they WANT to believe in a deity ?""","""and the others do n't want to believe ( hope there is n't ) a god""",,
32400,8447,"""Making abortion illegal goes against common sense ? I would say that making abortion legal in call cases makes no sense ... but ok. You also maintain that only religious people are against abortion ... I know this is n't true because many of my friends or family are not religious and are against abortion . Not only that , there is an organiztion called lp4life ( libertarians ) and many of them are not religious and they argue against abortion on non-religious grounds which is what many of us do here on the forum . Stop making baseless claims because you have a quarrel with religion . Your unwanted children claim is also baseless . There has already been a debate on this and it is very clear ( as he does n't respond anymore ) that abandoned babies will not increase due to abortion being illegal . Another baseless claim . I do n't understand why you just make claims and then never back them up eventhough you say you use logic and common sense . Is it logical to oppose abortion only because you are mad at a religion ?""","""I 'm not mad at religion , but I do pity the rationalizations it creates .""",DISAGREE,"""Is it logical to oppose abortion only because you are mad at a religion ?""","""I 'm not mad at religion , but I do pity the rationalizations it creates .""",,
32418,8453,"""Yes , it certainly would affect my career opportunities , and that was one of the things I took into consideration ( note that every thing I listed was something I considered ) .""","""Actually , as Another Opinion pointed out , there are more considerations beyond that . Emotional ones . Some people would have a hard time giving up some part of themselves ( or how ever they see it ) , thus there are the cases of changed minds . Others may constantly worry later on 'how is s/he doing , are they okay or not ... ' in regards to the child . I was merely addressing certain aspects of this topic .""",DISAGREE,"""Yes , it certainly would affect my career opportunities""","""Actually , as Another Opinion pointed out , there are more considerations beyond that .""",,
32439,8464,"""We ca n't be of the same kind as apes , because ( based on the only `` definition `` of kind I 've heard ) micro-evolution can turn one species into another within `` kinds `` , and humans ca n't turn into anything , or vice-versa .""","""So we ca n't base our definition of `` kind `` on mere appearances ? I mean if we are going to put things into categories and call the category `` kind `` , we should do this by common appearances . A penguin is in the same kind as a hummingbird , but is a lobster in the same kind as an oyster ? Obviously a lobster and a shrimp would be in the same kind , but could a dolphin and a manatee be in the same kind ? Did they evolve from a common ancestor kind ? And since apes look and act so much like humans , did n't they just evolve from humans ? By all appearances , they we must all be in the same kind .""",DISAGREE,"""We ca n't be of the same kind as apes""","""By all appearances , they we must all be in the same kind""",,
32474,8476,"""I would secondly say that saying that one has a constitutional right to marry is not the same thing as saying that one has the right to marry a person of the same gender .""","""And why would you say something like this ? Because Christianity prohibits it ? I ca n't think of any other reason .""",DISAGREE,"""constitutional right to marry is not the same thing as saying that one has the right to marry""","""Because Christianity prohibits it ? I ca n't think of any other reason .""",,
32486,8481,"""but , thats not the point .""","""Actually yes , yes it is .""",DISAGREE,"""but , thats not the point .""","""Actually yes , yes it is .""",,
32498,8494,"""I ca n't think of any good reason to qualify the delivery of healthcare other than need for a physician . Where one lives or does n't live , makes no difference , and neither does the fact that a person has broken the law . Health care is a civil and human right in a democratic society .""","""Homeless , yes , as long as they 're legal residents . Illegal aliens , no . Health care is a civil right , but not a human one . There are no human rights .""",DISAGREE,"""Health care is a civil and human right in a democratic society .""","""Health care is a civil right , but not a human one . There are no human rights .""",,
32517,8517,"""Your stats are n't broken down into meaningful groups , so nothing is learned WRT Muslims .""","""No argument . But the thread start started with how Europe was going to be Arab due to all the non-Arabs having all these abortions - - well not that many of them are .""",DISAGREE,"""nothing is learned""","""No argument .""",,
32554,8530,"""So how would you make a study that shows the benefits of gun ownership ? I don´t think there is any way to do this .""","""There have been several conducted by the department of justice .""",DISAGREE,"""So how would you make a study that shows the benefits of gun ownership ?""","""There have been several conducted by the department of justice .""",,
32565,8534,"""or join the real world and become a free thinker . but do n't try to tell us evolution is wrong or has holes . its propsterious .""","""Actually , if you want to check , you will find that biologists themselves will point out the holes . We still have a lot to learn . Many of the holes have been closed even in my lifetime and the creationist god-of-the-gaps is being reduced to smaller and smaller gaps . But if you want a creationist to `` join the real world `` , you 're going to have to do more than be offensive and insulting . You might present some actual facts to support your position . Of course , I presume that you will actually educate yourself before presenting the facts . Have a nice day .""",DISAGREE,"""but do n't try to tell us evolution is wrong or has holes""","""you will find that biologists themselves will point out the holes""",,
32580,8542,"""You 're kidding me ! You are actually comparing a buying a car to an abotion ? That 's hardly equal ! If someone regrets killing their child , then yeah why should they deny that to someone else when it could be positive for them ? ! Give me a break !""","""But that 's the argument you were presenting . The use of `` car `` is really irrelevant . You can substitute `` buying a car `` with any activity that one might engage in where they could later view it as positive or negative . The point is , you are attempting to use someones negative emotional view to argue aganist something that can be a positive experience for others . I was attempting to point out that yes , while you are entitled to have an opinion and share that opinion with everyone , this does not give you the right to determine what is right for others . If you find abortion to be that objectionable , great ... do n't ever have one . But do not try to use 1 persons negative viewpoint of abortion to tell others what they may or may not do . I am willing to bet that for every person you find who regrets their abortion that you would be able to find one person who found their abortion to be the right choice for them . Oh , and in case you missed my request ... could you please give the number of the Planned Parenthood clinic that you called so the rest of us could listen to it ?""",DISAGREE,"""You 're kidding me ! You are actually comparing a buying a car to an abotion ? That 's hardly equal ! If someone regrets killing their child ,""","""But that 's the argument you were presenting . The use of `` car `` is really irrelevant . You can substitute `` buying a car""",,
32585,8544,"""1 . We know there is such a thing as intelligent design : we do it ourselves .""","""I think that you are correct in this assumption , but since you do not define either 'intelligent ' or 'design ' , I can not be certain that we are not already at cross-purposes .""",AGREE,"""We know there is such a thing as intelligent design :""","""you do not define either 'intelligent ' or 'design ' , I can not be certain that we are not already at cross-purposes .""",,
32592,8548,"""Teaching students to be responsible !""","""Ok , I 'll bite . How do you teach responsability by taking away a civil right ? Will they be able to own guns if they are taking a civics class ? How about a constitutional law class ? Maybe next they can prohibit athletes from owning a Crucifix or Star of David .""",DISAGREE,"""Teaching students to be responsible !""","""How do you teach responsability by taking away a civil right ?""",,
32599,8549,"""I 'm pro-choice , but to say that having an abortion should not or will not effect EITHER parent is callous . You 'll , most likely , ( at minimum ) wonder regretfully what could have been . Choice in abortion is n't a small choice , like whether to wear a blue or black suit ( and should n't be ) . Nonetheless , it is and should be a tough choice that only the woman who must carry the child can make .""","""Could not agree more .""",AGREE,"""pro-choice ,""","""Could not agree more .""",,
32622,8555,"""What did we have when we first took the dogs to the environment ? Dogs ( varying in hair sizes ) . What did we get after a short amount of time ? Dogs ( only the long hair size ) . There is no evolution occuring here , we had dogs before , dogs after .""","""What bible tract did you get that from . Evolution does not require that dogs turn into something else . That is a strawman .""",DISAGREE,"""There is no evolution occuring here , we had dogs before , dogs after .""","""Evolution does not require that dogs turn into something else""",,
32645,8563,"""`` Our main agenda is to have all guns banned . We must use whatever means possible . It does n't matter if you have to distort facts or even lie . Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed. `` '' Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us are totally disarmed. ``""","""People that are willing to make up such quotes would probably also be willing to make up such a memo .""",DISAGREE,"""Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us are totally disarmed. ``""","""People that are willing to make up such quotes would probably also be willing to make up such a memo .""",,
32673,8570,"""Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""","""Clinton gave access to b/c which is known to prevent pregnancies . Bush has reduced access to b/c ( including e/c ) . A primary reason for aborting is money - Americans have been less well off under Bush .""",DISAGREE,"""rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""","""Clinton gave access to b/c which is known to prevent pregnancies .""",,
32672,8570,"""Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""","""Clinton gave access to b/c which is known to prevent pregnancies . Bush has reduced access to b/c ( including e/c ) . A primary reason for aborting is money - Americans have been less well off under Bush .""",DISAGREE,"""also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""","""Clinton gave access to b/c which is known to prevent pregnancies . Bush has reduced access to b/c ( including e/c""",,
32669,8570,"""Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time .""","""Clinton gave access to b/c which is known to prevent pregnancies . Bush has reduced access to b/c ( including e/c ) . A primary reason for aborting is money - Americans have been less well off under Bush .""",DISAGREE,"""Of course , we also need to note that the rise and fall of abortion rates are not necessarily linked to who is president at the time""","""Clinton gave access to b/c Bush has reduced access to""",,
32679,8571,"""All they are really pressing for is basically for kids parents to tell their kids AT HOME that god guided evolution without it contrasting directly with what the kids are being taught at school . Personally , I see no problem with this , as long as they stick to the facts in any case . Just glanmcing over the proposed changes , I am not seeing anything that is factually incorrect .""","""But that is how creationism works - half truth . Evolution is a theory but do n't make it quite clear that in science the word theory does n't mean half-assed guess , as it does in creationism . Check out that little piece of * * * * that was added to the bottom of the Patterns of Cumulative Change paragraph on page 7 . That is pure YEC . And you are n't a YEC ?""",DISAGREE,"""All they are really pressing for is basically for kids parents to tell their kids AT HOME that god guided evolution without it contrasting directly with what the kids are being taught at school""","""that is how creationism works - half truth . Evolution is a theory but do n't make it quite clear that in science the word theory does n't mean half-assed guess , as it does in creationism .""",,
32685,8572,"""Regarding the stars , I have a thought . We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age . If this were true it would explain the difference between the `` old `` and `` new `` earth theory .""","""Sandy suppose you lived in New York and knew it was 3000 miles between California and New York Now suppose there was a car that was parked in your driveway that you also knew had been driven from California and that car had a maximum speed of 100 miles per hour . That would of course mean it would have taken at least 30 hours to make the drive . Do you see how you could deduce that the car was at least 30 hours old ? That ’ s the same principle used for dating the stars and the universe . If we know how far away a star is and we know the maximum speed of light , then the star must be at least as old as the time it would take for the light to get to the earth so we could see it .""",DISAGREE,"""We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age""","""That would of course mean it would have taken at least 30 hours to make the drive .""",,
32680,8572,"""Regarding the stars , I have a thought . We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age . If this were true it would explain the difference between the `` old `` and `` new `` earth theory .""","""Sandy suppose you lived in New York and knew it was 3000 miles between California and New York Now suppose there was a car that was parked in your driveway that you also knew had been driven from California and that car had a maximum speed of 100 miles per hour . That would of course mean it would have taken at least 30 hours to make the drive . Do you see how you could deduce that the car was at least 30 hours old ? That ’ s the same principle used for dating the stars and the universe . If we know how far away a star is and we know the maximum speed of light , then the star must be at least as old as the time it would take for the light to get to the earth so we could see it .""",DISAGREE,"""Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age .""","""If we know how far away a star is and we know the maximum speed of light , then the star must be at least as old as the time it would take for the light to get to the earth so we could see it .""",,
32684,8572,"""Regarding the stars , I have a thought . We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age . If this were true it would explain the difference between the `` old `` and `` new `` earth theory .""","""Sandy suppose you lived in New York and knew it was 3000 miles between California and New York Now suppose there was a car that was parked in your driveway that you also knew had been driven from California and that car had a maximum speed of 100 miles per hour . That would of course mean it would have taken at least 30 hours to make the drive . Do you see how you could deduce that the car was at least 30 hours old ? That ’ s the same principle used for dating the stars and the universe . If we know how far away a star is and we know the maximum speed of light , then the star must be at least as old as the time it would take for the light to get to the earth so we could see it .""",DISAGREE,"""We measure the distance of stars in light years , then try to predict their age . Perhaps when measuring the distance , that 's all we get is distance- not actual `` time `` , or age . If this were true it would explain the difference between the `` old `` and `` new `` earth theory .""","""Sandy suppose you lived in New York and knew it was 3000 miles between California and New York Now suppose there was a car that was parked in your driveway that you also knew had been driven from California and that car had a maximum speed of 100 miles per hour . That would of course mean it would have taken at least 30 hours to make the drive . Do you see how you could deduce that the car was at least 30 hours old ? That ’ s the same principle used for dating the stars and the universe""",,
32695,8574,"""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . Most protestors on both sides are n't great .""","""I agree that during debate of an issue like this both sides can get pretty nasty . However , you would be hard-pressed to find a place where those that are choice are screaming in your face , interrupting your personal life on an already hard day like this .""",AGREE,"""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . Most protestors on both sides are n't great .""","""you would be hard-pressed to find a place where those that are choice are screaming in your face , interrupting your personal life on an already hard day like this .""",,
32692,8574,"""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . Most protestors on both sides are n't great .""","""I agree that during debate of an issue like this both sides can get pretty nasty . However , you would be hard-pressed to find a place where those that are choice are screaming in your face , interrupting your personal life on an already hard day like this .""",AGREE,"""It is rather disrespectful but do n't think it is limited to one side . Most protestors on both sides are n't great .""","""I agree that during debate of an issue like this both sides can get pretty nasty .""",,
32706,8577,"""Oh .""","""Why are you surprised ? Raising the bar is a known tactic .""",DISAGREE,"""Oh .""","""Why are you surprised ? Raising the bar is a known tactic .""",,
32713,8580,"""Humans have an average life expectancy of 70-75 years…with a maximum of around 120 . But what happens if a man marries his first cousin ? It has been shown that life expectancy of such offspring diminishes by 10 years . This is because of the large number of genetic mistakes that happen within the genome – which essentially ages the individual .""","""How about the individual 's offspring ? Is a `` subtract 10 years `` gene encoded in the genome just because of one marriage ? Still no evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""This is because of the large number of genetic mistakes that happen within the genome – which essentially ages the individual .""","""Is a `` subtract 10 years `` gene encoded in the genome just because of one marriage ?""",,
32712,8580,"""Humans have an average life expectancy of 70-75 years…with a maximum of around 120 . But what happens if a man marries his first cousin ? It has been shown that life expectancy of such offspring diminishes by 10 years . This is because of the large number of genetic mistakes that happen within the genome – which essentially ages the individual .""","""How about the individual 's offspring ? Is a `` subtract 10 years `` gene encoded in the genome just because of one marriage ? Still no evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""But what happens if a man marries his first cousin ? It has been shown that life expectancy of such offspring diminishes by 10 years .""","""Is a `` subtract 10 years `` gene encoded in the genome just because of one marriage ? Still no evidence .""",,
32717,8582,"""This is so inane I dont know where to start . Firstly - If there existed an armed forces capable of destroying the US military , then an armed civilian population would be absolutely no barrier to them . Secondly - There is no single nation on earth that can move 200,000,000 men . Thirdly - How exactly do you propose China get its men to the USA ? Are they going to use their secrect commie teleporting machines ? There is no chance for them to cross the oceans , or deploy either north or south of the USA .""","""Yes that is a problem . But there is an instance when the 2nd Amendment did protect the USA from invaders : `` Someone at the table asked a Japanese admiral why , with the Pacific Fleet devastated at Pearl Harbor and the mainland US forces in what Japan had to know was a pathetic state of unreadiness , Japan had not simply invaded the West Coast `` - http : //www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob70.html If it was n't for the 2nd Amendment you would be speaking Japanese if you live on the West coast , German if you live on the East coast .""",AGREE,"""If there existed an armed forces capable of destroying the US military , then an armed civilian population would be absolutely no barrier to exactly do you propose China get its men to the USA ?""","""Yes that is a problem .""",,
32725,8584,"""Once upon a time , a man killed another man with a tire iron . We 've simply got to ban tire irons ... and bats ... and hatchets ... and knives ... and scissors ... and sharp pencils ... and plastic bags ... and nail clippers .""","""Your love of assumption is quite amusing ( it also highlights your inability to argue honestly ) . All I did was point out that accidents are a cause of injuries and fatalities dealing with firearms . Nowhere did I suggest banning them in the slightest . Furthermore , I specifically noted that most of the accidents were due to improper gun safety . So how about you take the stick out of your XXX and stop assuming whatever the * * * * you want for a change ? You are a joke Isly . About time you admit it .""",DISAGREE,"""Once upon a time , a man killed another man with a tire iron .""","""All I did was point out that accidents are a cause of injuries and fatalities dealing with firearms""",,
32742,8587,"""it combines the worlds of evolution ( including biology , genes , cells , etc ) , spirituality , and health/diseases . He basicallly says that most of the billions of dollars pumped in to bio-tech is wasted because fixing genes will never fix the physical cause of disease . ( RIGHT ON , Brother ! ) .....""","""But it will stop the disease from being passed on to offspring ... Or is that unimportant ?""",DISAGREE,"""He basicallly says that most of the billions of dollars pumped in to bio-tech is wasted because fixing genes will never fix the physical cause of disease . ( RIGHT ON , Brother ! ) .....""","""But it will stop the disease from being passed on to offspring ... Or is that unimportant ?""",,
32746,8587,"""it combines the worlds of evolution ( including biology , genes , cells , etc ) , spirituality , and health/diseases . He basicallly says that most of the billions of dollars pumped in to bio-tech is wasted because fixing genes will never fix the physical cause of disease . ( RIGHT ON , Brother ! ) .....""","""But it will stop the disease from being passed on to offspring ... Or is that unimportant ?""",DISAGREE,"""He basicallly says that most of the billions of dollars pumped in to bio-tech is wasted because fixing genes will never fix the physical cause of disease""","""But it will stop the disease from being passed on to offspring""",,
32748,8588,"""18 . Show me some instances of mutations that add information to the genome :""","""You 've had problems with this in other threads . You 've said that a modification to the genome is not new information , just 'altered ' information , which makes no sense at all . You ca n't alter information . You can alter physical stuff so that it stops representing one piece of information and starts representing another , but the idea that the information has altered is way off base . I could turn any sentence into any other sentence - even into a sentence that has never been written before - just by tweaking the letters one by one . Is the end product not a 'new ' sentence ?""",DISAGREE,"""Show me some instances of mutations that add information to the genome :""","""'ve said that a modification to the genome is not new information , just 'altered ' information , which makes no sense at all""",,
32751,8588,"""18 . Show me some instances of mutations that add information to the genome :""","""You 've had problems with this in other threads . You 've said that a modification to the genome is not new information , just 'altered ' information , which makes no sense at all . You ca n't alter information . You can alter physical stuff so that it stops representing one piece of information and starts representing another , but the idea that the information has altered is way off base . I could turn any sentence into any other sentence - even into a sentence that has never been written before - just by tweaking the letters one by one . Is the end product not a 'new ' sentence ?""",DISAGREE,"""Show me some instances of mutations that add information to the genome""","""You 've had problems with this in other threads""",,
32759,8589,"""PENNSYLVANIA CONSTITUTION Section 21 . Right to Bear Arms The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned . I do n't see the word `` qualified `` in there .""","""But felons ca n't vote and I do n't see that in the Constitution , either . I do n't have a problem with preventing criminals from legally owning firearms . That said , I think it 's against our rights to be assumed to be a criminal without ever being convicted of a crime .""",DISAGREE,"""The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned .""","""I do n't see that in the Constitution""",,
32772,8594,"""and the appeal to the right to control one 's body , which is generally construed as a property right , is at best a rather feeble arguement for the permissibility of abortion .""","""Hmm , fascinating claim . Obviously , the US Supreme Court disagrees as does most of the prochoice movement . So ?""",DISAGREE,"""the appeal to the right to control one 's body , which is generally construed as a property right , is at best a rather feeble arguement for the permissibility of abortion .""","""Hmm , fascinating claim . Obviously , the US Supreme Court disagrees as does most of the prochoice movement . So ?""",,
32783,8597,"""Evidence ?""","""In time of war : The Israeli answer to terrorism by Massad Ayoob Issue # 81 `` Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s , when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident . The volunteer parents work in plain clothes , armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols , and are trained by Israel & # 8217 ; s home guard . It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002 , not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school ! ``""",DISAGREE,"""Evidence ?""","""The volunteer parents work in plain clothes , armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols""",,
32802,8611,"""The most informative answer to the question of 'how many gun-control laws ? ' is then 'about 300 major state and federal laws , and an unknown but shrinking number of local laws . ' ''""","""Lets look at what is claimed in the link I post . It 's origins were in response to & # 8220 ; Teddy bears are more regulated than guns. & # 8221 ; -- Violence Policy Center . The & # 8220 ; Unregulated & # 8221 ; Gun""",DISAGREE,"""an unknown but shrinking number of local laws""","""It 's origins were in to Teddy bears are more regulated than""",,
32838,8622,"""Chloe has advanced a statement that the pro-life position toward women is higher then the pro-choice view of women . The topic is : is this the case or is this not the case ? The topic is not why this might be the case or why it might not be the case .""","""And she has referenced her religious beliefs as the foundation of her position .""",AGREE,"""statement that the pro-life position toward women is higher then the pro-choice view of women""","""And she has referenced her religious beliefs as the foundation of her position .""",,
32878,8631,"""I 'd like to know how a fission reaction was supposedly possible in the first place . This would be hard to achieve using only light water and ( today 's ) natural uranium ( at about 0.7 % U-235 ) .""","""Well , since the composition of the uranium body when it was a natural reactor was n't the same as today 's natural uranium , it does n't matter . What is important was the composition of the ore back then . Since U-238 has a half-life of 4.468E+9 years and U-235 has a half-life of 7.038E+8 years , it is apparent that the U-235 decays much more rapidly . It stands to reason that the The relative percentage of U-235 to U-238 was higher in the past . It also stands to reason that thee was more uranimum present at the time that the natural reactors were active . About 2 billion years ago the U-235 was about 3 % or more of the composition of the uranium .""",DISAGREE,"""I 'd like to know how a fission reaction was supposedly possible in the first place .""","""Well , since the composition of the uranium body when it was a natural reactor was n't the same as today 's natural uranium , it does n't matter""",,
32887,8636,"""All things are possible with God . My God is the God of the impossible !""","""So you honestly believe that with the technology available at the time , Noah constructed a monstrous synthetic habitat large enough to hold two of every creature on earth ? Complete with enough aquatic capacity to hold two of every ocean creature , including whales and sharks ? With enough travel speed to cover the entire globe in time to pick up two of every animal , from the burrowing frogs of the african desert to the Polar bears of Antarctica ? And that this vessel was also large enough to carry a supply of food adequate for so many hundreds of millions of animals ? And that the waste disposal systems were adequate to handle such a volume of waste ? I 'm sorry , but anyone with even a shred of credibility must take the story of Noah and his ark as nothing more than an interpretation and adaption of an ages old story . To interpret it as the literal truth is beyond belief .""",DISAGREE,"""All things are possible with God . My God is the God of the impossible !""","""Complete with enough aquatic capacity to hold two of every ocean creature , including whales and sharks ?""",,
32899,8640,"""Pah ! Child 's play ! .""","""Oh ? Then what do you take this to mean ? : http : //www.accessmylibrary.com/comsi ... d=0286-6387354 `` researchers no longer believe that races are distinct biological categories created by differences in the genes that people inherit from their parents. `` http : //academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/race.htm There are no genetic characteristics possessed by all Blacks but not by non- Blacks ; similarly , there is no gene or cluster of genes common to all Whites but not to non-Whites . One 's race is not determined by a single gene or gene cluster , as is , for example , sickle cell anemia . Nor are races marked by important differences in gene frequencies , the rates of appearance of certain gene types . The data compiled by various scientists demonstrates , contrary to popular opinion , that intra-group differences exceed inter-group differences . That is , greater genetic variation exists within the populations typically labeled Black and White than between these populations . This finding refutes the supposition that racial divisions reflect fundamental genetic differences . Along the way , various minds tried to fashion practical human typologies along the following physical axes : skin color , hair texture , facial angle , jaw size , cranial capacity , brain mass , frontal lobe mass , brain surface fissures and convolutions , and even body lice . As one scholar notes , `` [ t ] he nineteenth century was a period of exhaustive and -- as it turned out -- futile search for criteria to define and describe race differences . '' . . . Attempts to define racial categories by physical attributes ultimately failed . By 1871 , some leading intellectuals had recognized that even using the word `` race `` `` was virtually a confession of ignorance or evil intent. `` The genetic studies of the last few decades have only added more nails to the coffin of biological race . Evidence shows that those features usually coded to race , for example , stature , skin color , hair texture , and facial structure , do not correlate strongly with genetic variation""",DISAGREE,"""Child 's play ! .""","""Attempts to define racial categories by physical attributes ultimately failed .""",,
32915,8642,"""One thing that 's surprising about it is that gay pride proponents have been asserting , ever since Prop 8 , that public opinion was overwhelmingly on their side and that it would be voted away once another chance to vote came along . Yet not only did it not get voted down , it did n't even make it onto the ballot . But personally , I 'd rather see such sweeping cultural matters handled via the will of the people rather than an oligarchical court using judicial fiat to favor a minority over everyone else . Though I think the gay pride proponents would fail at the U .S . Supreme Court ( if it gets that far ) .""","""Oh it will and from what I have seen of the arguments the court will strike down prop 8 and every anti gay marriage amendment . I have seen the reinactments taken from the trial record . YouTube - Prop 8 Trial Re-enactment , Day 1 Chapter 1""",AGREE,"""One thing that 's surprising about it is that gay pride proponents have been asserting , ever since Prop 8 ,""","""Oh it will and from what I have seen of the arguments the court will strike down prop 8""",,
32920,8643,"""U.S. Supreme Court 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) MURDOCK v. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA and seven other cases , including JONES v. CITY OF OPELIKA , 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) `` It is contended , however , that the fact that the license tax can suppress or control this activity is unimportant [ 319 U.S. 105 , 113 ] if it does not do so . But that is to disregard the nature of this tax . It is a license tax ? a flat tax imposed on the exercise of a privilege granted by the Bill of Rights . A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the federal constitution. ``""","""No more poll tax on us `` darkies `` voting either~ !""",DISAGREE,"""U.S. Supreme Court 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) MURDOCK v. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA and seven other cases , including JONES v. CITY OF OPELIKA , 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) `` It is contended , however , that the fact that the license tax can suppress or control this activity is unimportant [ 319 U.S. 105 , 113 ] if it does not do so . But that is to disregard the nature of this It is a license tax ? a flat tax imposed on the exercise of a privilege granted by the Bill of A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the federal constitution. ``""","""No more poll tax on us `` darkies `` voting either~ !""",,
32921,8643,"""U.S. Supreme Court 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) MURDOCK v. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA and seven other cases , including JONES v. CITY OF OPELIKA , 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) `` It is contended , however , that the fact that the license tax can suppress or control this activity is unimportant [ 319 U.S. 105 , 113 ] if it does not do so . But that is to disregard the nature of this tax . It is a license tax ? a flat tax imposed on the exercise of a privilege granted by the Bill of Rights . A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the federal constitution. ``""","""No more poll tax on us `` darkies `` voting either~ !""",DISAGREE,"""Supreme Court 319 U.S. 105 ( 1943 ) MURDOCK v. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA and seven other cases ,""","""No more poll tax on us `` darkies `` voting""",,
32929,8645,"""Again , which is your usual tact you attack the messengers Justine but in your heart of hearts you know what we say is the truth ...""","""You know , I really do n't know if she does . I 'd like to think that she does care about the moral concerns of most people in the nation , but it 's starting to become more and more apparent that may not be the case . At the rate they are going , gay rights people in this country are going to bring a constitutional amendment on themselves before they truly realize the value of actually trying to see the issue through someone 's eyes other than their own , and actually dialoging rather than trying to dictate their views onto the nation . By then it will be too late .""",DISAGREE,"""which is your usual tact you attack the messengers Justine but in your heart of hearts you know what we say is the truth ...""","""I 'd like to think that she does care about the moral concerns of most people in the nation , but it 's starting to become more and more apparent that may not be the case .""",,
32936,8646,"""I was watching the Bill Maher show today and they had Jane Fonda on . She mentioned that she has recently become a Christian and that HER god is one that supports a womens right to choice . Now there are so many problems with this that I do n't even know where to start . Not only that , I am saying this as almost a `` newbie `` Christian as in I do n't know everything there is to know about the Bible . However , I do know that the Christian God that is defined in the Bible is against abortion . Many argue that the Bible is not what the Christian God is because it has been translated into a meaningless document . How is this true when we have so many of the original scrolls ? Moreever , how can one claim what God thinks if they do n't have anything to base it on ? For example if you say the Bible is worthless , you are a Christian , and God believes abortion is ok ... then how did you come to this conclusion ? The Christian God talks about how one is created before they were put in the womb . God also talks about not killing . So if you wish to be Christian and for abortion you need to rethink one of those stances . God does n't conform to anyone .""","""Have you read the Old Testament ? In Numbers , God says do n't count any male child under one month old as a person . They also did n't count girls at all . He also had them burn Tamora while she was pregnant .""",DISAGREE,"""I am saying this as almost a `` newbie `` Christian as in I do n't know everything there is to know about the Bible . I do know that the Christian God that is defined in the Bible is against abortion . God also talks about not killing . So if you wish to be Christian and for abortion you need to rethink one of those stances .""","""Have you read the Old Testament ? In Numbers , God says do n't count any male child under one month old as a person . They also did n't count girls at all . He also had them burn Tamora while she was pregnant .""",,
32944,8647,"""The proof of the racism of Darwinism is overwhelming , if you do n't believe that you have never read Darwin .""","""Actually , Darwin was much less racist than was typical of the Victorian British of his day . Possibly you should read what Darwin had to say about his encounters with slavery in South America . Nevertheless , Darwin was a Victorian Englishman and his attitudes were colored by that culture , where Victoria was , by the Grace of God , Queen , and the head of the Church of England , which dominated the culture and academic life of the time . You know , the slavery that was propagated and approved by the European Christian churches . And , of course , the slave trade in the U.S. was supported and approved by the protestant churches . The Southern Baptist Convention was formed for the sole purpose of excluding blacks from the Christian churches . In 1997 the Southern Baptist Convention issued an official apology to African Americans for its history of racism . Of course , you are probably quite aware that the KKK was fromed by southern Christians - still is . There is also the Aryan Brotherhood , which also claims to be Christian . So I guess we could call that proof of the racism of Christianity . Of course you will squeal and cry about it and offer excuses , but facts are facts .""",DISAGREE,"""The proof of the racism of Darwinism is overwhelming , if you do n't believe that you have never read Darwin .""","""Darwin was much less racist than was typical of the Victorian British of his day . slavery that was propagated and approved by the European Christian churches .""",,
32951,8648,"""And that 's when her career and popularity took a nosedive . Now that she 's no longer playing the activist , she 's becoming popular again .""","""She is still a very loud activist .""",AGREE,"""Now that she 's no longer playing the activist , she 's becoming popular again .""","""She is still a very loud activist .""",,
32959,8650,"""The so called `` pro-choice `` movement is in fact in favour of only one choice , ie abortion . For example , a woman who telephones the `` British Pregnancy Advisory Service ( sic ) `` looking for help with a crisis pregnancy will not be given any help or advice . They only deal in abortions , performing over a quarter of all UK abortions . They will not even refer the woman to pro-life organisations such as Life . So much for choice !""","""Oh , you mean unlike the pro-life organizations that regularly refer women that come to them to pro-choice organizations ? I 'm being facetious , to get it out of my system , but seriously why would a `` pro-choice `` organization refer people to a `` pro-life `` organization when such organizations are regarded ( rightly or wrongly ) as `` pro-paternalism `` ? The claim that `` the so called `` pro-choice movement is in fact in favour of only one choice `` is certainly a important criticism that the pro-choice movement faces , because it is about supporting a woman 's choice to have an abortion . Unfortunately so much time and attention is devoted to protecting that choice that it overshadows the whole point of the pro-choice position : the woman 's right to choose . Too little time and attention is spent protecting a woman 's autonomy in making that choice or supporting a woman 's choice not to have an abortion . Fortunately in Canada , where abortion is legal , the pro-choice movement is quickly recognizing that providing women with the information and support to make an informed decision either way is just as important as providing the means to exercise one choice . I 'm pointing this out because I think you may be mistaking the pro-choice 's struggle to keep the abortion option open with what the pro-choice movement is actually in favour of : the informed choice of a woman with regard to how she wants to deal with pregnancy .""",DISAGREE,"""The so called `` pro-choice `` movement is in fact in favour of only one choice , ie abortion .""","""but seriously why would a `` pro-choice `` organization refer people to a `` pro-life `` organization when such organizations are regarded ( rightly or wrongly ) as `` pro-paternalism `` ?""",,
32966,8651,"""Dearest , I never speed because I take my responsibilities as a citizen so seriously , and i have never received a speeding ticket . Were you driving under the influence as well ? How many lives did you put at risk , Archangel ? What pomposity ! What hypocrisy !""","""Wait , did you really ask a question imply an answer and then condemn someone for it ? Haha , your logic may be more delusional than I thought .""",DISAGREE,"""you driving under the influence as well ? How many lives did you put at risk , Archangel ?""","""did you really ask a question imply an answer and then condemn someone for it ? Haha , your logic may be more delusional than I thought .""",,
33005,8657,"""Just when is it absolutely necessary to kill children ?""","""I personally ca n't imagine a time that it would be absolutly necessary to kill a child , though there is a lot out there that I ca n't imagine happening that does .""",AGREE,"""when is it absolutely necessary to kill children ?""","""I personally ca n't imagine a time that it would be absolutly necessary to kill a child""",,
33002,8657,"""Just when is it absolutely necessary to kill children ?""","""I personally ca n't imagine a time that it would be absolutly necessary to kill a child , though there is a lot out there that I ca n't imagine happening that does .""",AGREE,"""Just when is it absolutely necessary to kill children ?""","""I personally ca n't imagine a time that it would be absolutly necessary to kill a child , though there is a lot out there that I ca n't imagine happening that does .""",,
33012,8658,"""Word games Darwinists play ( example : exploiting the diverse meanings of `` evolution `` to distract critics )""","""Distract ? No . If Wells is accusing equivocation , he 'd better be able to back up his claim .""",DISAGREE,"""Word games Darwinists play""","""Wells is accusing equivocation""",,
33029,8662,"""] How many different ways can ToE be invalidated ? In a scientific theory , there are NO exceptions -- exceptions mean holes -- holes mean trouble . The answer is none so far . Your article and the mechanism involved do not impact upon TOE which makes only very broad assumptions about heritable elements . And what you reference does not constitute a hole in TOE , although it may be a new mechanism of inheritance .""","""yea , I often forget ToE is a mental concept , not a scientific one . Nothing -- and I mean nothing -- will ever dismantle it in the minds of the faithful . Materialism is so entrenched in your mind that even if an animal generates a new piece of morphology by mere thought , sensation or awareness , and then passes that trait down to progeny , ( which has been shown on here ) you still think materialism stands . It 's an unfalsifiable mindset that you and millions of others have created for yourselves .""",DISAGREE,"""How many different ways can ToE be invalidated ? In a scientific theory , there are NO exceptions -- exceptions mean holes -- holes mean trouble .""","""I often forget ToE is a mental concept , not a scientific one . Nothing -- and I mean nothing -- will ever dismantle it in the minds of the faithful .""",,
33036,8663,"""The memo is real , nobody has ever been able to disprove it . Handgun Control Inc. ( the people who later became the Brady Campaign ) have claimed that the memo is a hoax and that what was released has never been their official position . However them simply stating this , is no different than Obama making a statement on national news , and then several months later saying `` I never said that `` and trying to reverse his position . Until it can be proven beyond doubt as being untrue and simple propaganda , the memo is real and explains in detail exactly what the gun control groups are after .""","""In the reality which the rest of us inhabit , the onus of proof is on the person making the claim .""",DISAGREE,"""The memo is real , nobody has ever been able to disprove it""","""In the reality which the rest of us inhabit , the onus of proof is on the person making the claim .""",,
33041,8664,"""First of all , we are supposed to be introducing ourselves , not starting up a topic . But let me kill two birds with one stone here . Hi everyone , I 'm new here . And I love to debate . I got kicked out of one debate , because I won the debate on linguistics , and the girl got mad , because she lost , and banned me from the froum . Hopefully no one here is as immature as that . But anyway , thats my story , I 'm glad to be here . And I 'm ready to debate . And here is my first victim . I 'm against gay marriages . Why ? ! Because in order to mantain a healthy environment for children . ( which they always seem to want to adopt ) there has to be a healthy relationship . Now a child grows up , and sees two men/women dating eachother . That can confuse the child as to whether they should also be gay . It is not only harmful to the family environment , but also to society . And do n't hand me that , `` My uncle is gay. `` Stuff . I had ( he passed away ) a gay uncle , have three gay cousins , and a gay aunt . Not my whole family is not gay , but it seems like I have quite a few in my family . Now I do n't support what they do . Even though I love them because they are my family , I would not support them if they were to marry .""","""And what evidence do you have that having two gay parents would confuse a child about weahter they should be gay ? Did you know that the same percentage of children that were brought up by gay couples turn out to be gay as children who are brought up by straight couples ? I would say that destroys your conception that the kid would be confused . I know a number of people who were brought up by commited gay couples ( admittedly not many ) , and not one of the ones I know turned out to be gay .""",DISAGREE,"""That can confuse the child as to whether they should also be gay""","""And what evidence do you have that having two gay parents would confuse a child about weahter they should be gay ?""",,
33054,8667,"""A couple years back , Randy Thornhill and Craig Palmer argued that rape is an adaptation . When evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne criticized their thesis , Thornhill labeled him as an  “ anti-evolution critic. ”""","""Coyne 's criticism of `` evolutionary psychology `` as being unscientific . With modifications made by Mike Gene . http : //www.idthink.net/back/coyne/ http : //chronicle.augusta.com/stories ... 24-8577.shtmlb""",AGREE,"""biologist Jerry Coyne criticized their thesis Thornhill labeled him as an anti-evolution""","""Coyne 's criticism of `` evolutionary psychology `` as being unscientific .""",,
33059,8668,"""Those 2 % included CO2 and had a number specifically attached to it . I do n't remember what that number was , but if it were 'actually ' showing measurable increases , why are we not all kept up to speed on how drastic the increases are ? [ i.e . 1970 it was 0.0123 % and now it is 0.0124 % ] .""","""Erm ... we are ? Levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are usually quoted as parts per million , currently a little over 380ppm , 150 years ago closer to 280 . In 1970 about 330ppm . Carbon dioxide in the Earth 's atmosphere - Wikipedia , the free encyclopedia""",DISAGREE,"""why are we not all kept up to speed on how drastic the increases are ?""","""Erm ... we are ? Levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are usually quoted as parts per million , currently a little over 380ppm ,""",,
33079,8672,"""The same argument could be used in support of illegal drugs . You guys should really get some new material .""","""That is n't the arguement your buddy made . He claimed guns could be controlled by dogs and snakes and stuff like that . Do you have any examples of dogs or snakes controlling drugs and going on rampages and blowing folks heads off ? Even claimed the dog was mournful for his bereaved master . He did n't mention how the snake felt Also said something about robots and guns but did n't have any examples to wow us with . Do you ?""",DISAGREE,"""The same argument could be used in support of illegal drugs""","""That is n't the arguement your buddy made . Do you have any examples of dogs or snakes controlling drugs and going on rampages and blowing folks heads off ? Also said something about robots and guns but did n't have any examples to wow us with . Do you ?""",,
33090,8674,"""There is not a shred of evidence that life came into being by only natural processes .""","""But there is no evidence that it did not come about by natural processes . And , there is , in fact , evidence of natural processes that may have resulted in life . Just because you do n't understand it does n't make it so .""",DISAGREE,"""There is not a shred of evidence that life came into being by only natural processes .""","""But there is no evidence that it did not come about by natural processes .""",,
33102,8677,"""First off this is not an accurate depiction of atheism . Atheism does n't dictate how the universe was created or what happens after death . It just says that there is no god . Other than that it 's up to you to think , use your brain . This is also why the thread title : `` I do n't have enough faith to be an atheist `` is not accurate . All you have to do is believe that we were n't created by God . It does n't in any way relate to evolution , the big bang , etc .""","""I 'm not sure where anyone said it related to evolution , the big bang , etc. , but I might have missed something .""",DISAGREE,"""It does n't in any way relate to evolution , the big bang , etc .""","""I 'm not sure where anyone said it related to evolution , the big bang ,""",,
33108,8678,"""Please do n't neglect the importance of this question since it lies at the very heart of the pro-life view of the beginning of human rights . If you want women to give up their rights to their own bodies because of the significance of this transition ( i.e . conception ) , then it is critically important that you detail what it is in the transition that makes it so significant .""","""Well we assume a right to your own body here . It is also important for you to justify why there should be a difference in human and person and then justify why doing so this time is different from when this was previously done in history . I guess I do n't agree with the idea that you have no rights until you can prove you should have them ... if this is the standard then we are all in trouble .""",DISAGREE,"""Please do n't neglect the importance of this question since it lies at the very heart of the pro-life view""","""Well we assume a right to your own body here .""",,
33114,8680,"""Originally posted by dsadevil [ B We license people to use cars , provide mandatory training , enforce safety standards ( `` street-legal `` cars ) , and register who owns what car . Why ca n't we do this for guns , if the two are so comparable ? [ /b ]""","""Because the rights to firearms are bestowed by God . Not by a king , not by a government , not by a judge , not by a group of men . The right to firearms are given to you in the same way as the right to reproduce , the right of freedom of thought , the right of speech , the right to vote . The privildge to drive is given by the state .""",DISAGREE,"""We license people to use cars , provide mandatory training , enforce safety standards""","""Because the rights to firearms are bestowed by God .""",,
33151,8689,"""Im guessing its a science , because its widely accepted by scientist .""","""a ) `` Evolutionism `` is not widely accepted by scientists , it does n't even mean anything . It can mean atheism , it can mean biology , it can mean geology , or it can mean astrophysics . b ) Something being widely accepted by scientists does not make it a science - for example scientists in the 18th century widely believed in god , this did not make god a `` science `` .""",AGREE,"""Im guessing its a science , because its widely accepted by scientist .""","""is not widely accepted by scientists , it does n't even mean anything . It can mean atheism , Something being widely accepted by scientists does not make it a science""",,
33174,8695,"""This is , simply put , false . murdere is unlawful killing , so as long as abortion remains legal , it is not murder any more than killing in self-defense is .""","""Well since the Jews killed in the holocaust where kill under German legislation they where not murdered either .""",DISAGREE,"""simply put , false . murdere is unlawful killing , so as long as abortion remains legal , it is not murder any more than killing in self-defense is .""","""since the Jews killed in the holocaust where kill under German legislation they where not murdered either""",,
33179,8698,"""Looks like dancing in the blood of innocents to me .""","""Only one innocent bled in this case .""",DISAGREE,"""like dancing in the blood of innocents to me .""","""one innocent bled in this case""",,
33180,8698,"""Looks like dancing in the blood of innocents to me .""","""Only one innocent bled in this case .""",DISAGREE,"""Looks like dancing in the blood of innocents to me .""","""Only one innocent bled in this case .""",,
33231,8713,"""Both Evolutionists and Creationists have the same `` facts `` and `` evidence. `` Our bias determines who we interpret them .""","""Well , in the case of a creationist , the bias determines what evidence will be discarded , what evidence will be twisted , what evidence will simply be ignored .""",DISAGREE,"""Both Evolutionists and Creationists have the same `` facts `` and `` evidence. `` Our bias determines who we interpret them .""","""in the case of a creationist , the bias determines what evidence will be discarded , what evidence will be twisted , what evidence will simply be ignored .""",,
33253,8716,"""Only that many textbooks the over the whole world have used this famous example as  “ proof of evolution ” . Many evolutionists have used this same argument .""","""Cite the books . As far as I know , the evolution of the peppered moths is used as an example of natural selection . You do n't seem to have understood . Again , cite the books . None I ever used ever claimed that it was proof of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""Only that many textbooks the over the whole world have used this famous example as  proof of evolution . Many evolutionists have used this same argument .""","""the evolution of the peppered moths is used as an example of natural selection . None I ever used ever claimed that it was proof of evolution .""",,
33254,8716,"""Only that many textbooks the over the whole world have used this famous example as  “ proof of evolution ” . Many evolutionists have used this same argument .""","""Cite the books . As far as I know , the evolution of the peppered moths is used as an example of natural selection . You do n't seem to have understood . Again , cite the books . None I ever used ever claimed that it was proof of evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""Only that many textbooks the over the whole world have used this famous example as  proof of evolutionÂ""","""You do n't seem to have understood . Again , cite the books .""",,
33270,8718,"""Not a coincidence , just a stupid population to look at to understand whether marijuana does or does not lead to `` harder `` drugs . And the word of some guy you heard about is how you draw conclusions ?""","""Oh , so this only happens here , huh ? Every single hardcore drug addict is here , huh ?""",DISAGREE,"""just a stupid population to look at to understand whether marijuana does or does not lead to `` harder `` drugs .""","""Every single hardcore drug addict is here ,""",,
33327,8723,"""Ok .. In the see saw political battle in Kanas in the board of Education , the 'Creationist ' supports lost a couple of seats , and the pro-science group gained a couple .""","""I like that term `` pro-science. ``""",AGREE,"""In the see saw political battle in Kanas in the board of Education ,""","""I like that term `` pro-science. ``""",,
33341,8727,"""Strange that you seem to miss the meaning of your own quotes . Of course the phrase , `` survival of the fittest `` is a tautology .""","""Which Darwin thought was a superior phrase .""",DISAGREE,"""Strange that you seem to miss the meaning of your own quotes .""","""Which Darwin thought was a superior phrase .""",,
33347,8729,"""... and is still struggling ... to draw any kind of scientific conclusion , even one drawn upon contrived and artificial conditions .""","""No no ; again , you do n't get it . He 's only struggling because of people like you who deny the obvious . Rather than listen to what Majerus says about Majerus 's project , you 're listening to Mr . Mistaken Coyne and the author of the the Science article , which does n't say what you think it says .""",DISAGREE,"""is still struggling""","""you do n't get it""",,
33355,8738,"""Once again came from the article :  “ Many biologists start with theories and then test them in the field . Majerus takes the opposite and less fashionable approach : `` There 's another way of doing science , which is first find your organism and look at it incredibly closely , for a long time , in great detail and see what questions it asks you , `` he says. ”""","""Do n't those science writers make things so clear for you people who have no idea of what science is or how it works ? Actually , what is tested is the hypothesis . It is tested by making a prediction of a necessary observation and then devising a test of the prediction . Only when the hypothesis is supported should it be called a theory .""",DISAGREE,"""Once again came from the article :  Many biologists start with theories and then test them in the field""","""Do n't those science writers make things so clear for you people""",,
33362,8739,"""Since when has a big bang anywhere produced the order that we see in the Universe ? Big bangs can not produce the order that we see in the planets .""","""Would you like to learn how ?""",DISAGREE,"""Big bangs can not produce the order that we see in the planets""","""Would you like to learn how""",,
33359,8739,"""Since when has a big bang anywhere produced the order that we see in the Universe ? Big bangs can not produce the order that we see in the planets .""","""Would you like to learn how ?""",DISAGREE,"""Since when has a big bang anywhere produced the order that we see in the Universe ?""","""Would you like to learn how ?""",,
33371,8741,"""Hey buddy ... I like what you are saying , but I ca n't understand much of it because you keep messing up the quotes . Please fix that so I can actually read what you 're saying . Thanks !""","""Sorry , taken care of .""",AGREE,"""Please fix that so I can actually read what you 're saying .""","""Sorry , taken care of .""",,
33372,8741,"""Hey buddy ... I like what you are saying , but I ca n't understand much of it because you keep messing up the quotes . Please fix that so I can actually read what you 're saying . Thanks !""","""Sorry , taken care of .""",AGREE,"""Please fix that so I can actually read what you 're saying .""","""Sorry , taken care of .""",,
33375,8742,"""Originally posted by JFriday You are really going to hurt for that statement . WHERE ARE YOUR STATS BACKING THAT UP ? ! ? ! ? ! http : //www.crimereduction.gov.uk/statistics21.htm . Enjoy !""","""JFriday : In fairness , no one , pro or ant-gun can ever use UK stats to support thier argument again . Back in Jan '03 the UK government finally came clean and announced that they had been seriously fu * * ing with crime statistics . You can make the argument that the UK state had something to hide with guncontrol and you would probably be right . Reliable information from UK ministries should now be accepted as less than credible .""",DISAGREE,"""You are really going to hurt for that statement .""","""In fairness , no one , pro or ant-gun can ever use UK stats to support thier argument again""",,
33387,8746,"""Wow , Scalia 's full of @ # $ # . '' The U.S. Constitution says nothing about homosexual bias . Thus , it is left up to Congress , state legislatures , and state constitutions to resolve the issue. `` Apparently he missed the 14th amendment which prohibits discrimination against ANY citizen . This is in the Constitution .""","""no it does n't ... where do you people get this from ! If says you have equal protection of the laws but this still does n't apply to gay marriage just like it does n't apply to 10 year olds getting married . Good grief this is sad . Have any of you ever taken a class or read a book on the constitution ?""",DISAGREE,"""Apparently he missed the 14th amendment which prohibits discrimination against ANY citizen . This is in the Constitution .""","""If says you have equal protection of the laws but this still does n't apply to gay marriage just like it does n't apply to 10 year olds getting married .""",,
33416,8754,"""... it should be banned . However , in the course of banning the right the choose abortion allowances must be made . These are in regards to providing for the pregnant couple the services they need . I also think some `` PR `` work would need to be done to accomplish the destigmatization of unwed mothers so they really felt like they could unshamefully carry a child to term . Of course , I understand some folks think that they should be ashamed to be having sex outside of marriage , but the point here is to decrease the need for abortions . Get rid of the reasons why people have abortions and then ban abortion . Anyone want to live in Utopia ?""","""There are all kinds of social services , religious and otherwise available that will provide assistance to any woman who wants to carry her baby to term ........ When pro abortion people use that as and argument it is just a red herring and smoke screen ........""",DISAGREE,""" in the course must be made services they need""","""are all kinds of social services""",,
33425,8755,"""Wez it does n't matter whether they are legal or not . You can still get them . If keeping them illegal has worked at all I would say go for it , but it has n't . If I want a drug I can get a drug in about an hour . The same goes for any of you .""","""Legalising them would increase use however . Most people ca n't get hard drugs easily . If they get hard drugs at all , it 's still a lot harder to get hard drugs , than say alcohol . Then there 's the risk factor . Most people are n't willing to take that and risk becoming embroiled with dealers . I do n't particularly want an increase in hard drug use . -Wez""",DISAGREE,"""it does n't matter whether they are legal or not .""","""Legalising them would increase use however .""",,
33426,8755,"""Wez it does n't matter whether they are legal or not . You can still get them . If keeping them illegal has worked at all I would say go for it , but it has n't . If I want a drug I can get a drug in about an hour . The same goes for any of you .""","""Legalising them would increase use however . Most people ca n't get hard drugs easily . If they get hard drugs at all , it 's still a lot harder to get hard drugs , than say alcohol . Then there 's the risk factor . Most people are n't willing to take that and risk becoming embroiled with dealers . I do n't particularly want an increase in hard drug use . -Wez""",DISAGREE,"""If I want a drug I can get a drug . The same goes for you""","""Most people ca n't get drugs easily""",,
33429,8756,"""Would you call yourself a moral relativist ?""","""Why should I call myself that since everyone on the planet is as well ?""",DISAGREE,"""Would you call yourself a moral relativist ?""","""Why should I call myself that since everyone on the planet is as well ?""",,
33428,8756,"""Would you call yourself a moral relativist ?""","""Why should I call myself that since everyone on the planet is as well ?""",DISAGREE,"""Would you call yourself a moral relativist ?""","""Why should I call myself that since everyone on the planet is as well ?""",,
33471,8773,"""# 4 - How do we know without a doubt the world is billions of years old ?""","""How do we know anything for sure ? We ca n't be certain of the Earth 's age in billions of years , but we can use carbon dating to figure out it 's older then 55,000 years , which refutes creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""How do we know without a doubt""","""We ca n't be certain but we can use carbon dating to refutes creationism""",,
33483,8774,"""Originally published in Science Express on 17 May 2007 Science 8 June 2007 : Vol . 316. no . 5830 , pp . 1484 - 1488 DOI : 10.1126/science.1138341 Prev | Table of Contents | Next Reports RNA Maps Reveal New RNA Classes and a Possible Function for Pervasive Transcription Philipp Kapranov,1 Jill Cheng,1 Sujit Dike,1 David A. Nix,1 Radharani Duttagupta,1 Aarron T. Willingham,1 Peter F. Stadler,2 Jana Hertel,2 Jörg Hackermüller,3 Ivo L. Hofacker,4 Ian Bell,1 Evelyn Cheung,1 Jorg Drenkow,1 Erica Dumais,1 Sandeep Patel,1 Gregg Helt,1 Madhavan Ganesh,1 Srinka Ghosh,1 Antonio Piccolboni,1 Victor Sementchenko,1 Hari Tammana,1 Thomas R. Gingeras1 * Significant fractions of eukaryotic genomes give rise to RNA , much of which is unannotated and has reduced protein-coding potential . The genomic origins and the associations of human nuclear and cytosolic polyadenylated RNAs longer than 200 nucleotides ( nt ) and whole-cell RNAs less than 200 nt were investigated in this genome-wide study . Subcellular addresses for nucleotides present in detected RNAs were assigned , and their potential processing into short RNAs was investigated . Taken together , these observations suggest a novel role for some unannotated RNAs as primary transcripts for the production of short RNAs . Three potentially functional classes of RNAs have been identified , two of which are syntenically conserved and correlate with the expression state of protein-coding genes . These data support a highly interleaved organization of the human transcriptome .""","""And the introductory paragraph is interesting also .""",DISAGREE,"""The genomic origins and the associations of human nuclear and cytosolic polyadenylated RNAs longer than 200 nucleotides ( nt ) and whole-cell RNAs less than 200 nt were investigated in this genome-wide study .""","""paragraph is interesting also""",,
33492,8775,"""Have you forgotten to take your meds today ? Because your chemical imbalance is evident . Is this necessary ? Is it within the rules ? Should I report you to the moderators ?""","""Feel free samiinh . After all , chemist asked me the same question just yesterday pertaining to the same subject . And the same question about being angry at an allegedly non existent God applies to you too .""",DISAGREE,"""Have you forgotten to take your meds today ?""","""Feel free samiinh . After all , chemist asked me the same question just yesterday pertaining to the same subject .""",,
33490,8775,"""Have you forgotten to take your meds today ? Because your chemical imbalance is evident . Is this necessary ? Is it within the rules ? Should I report you to the moderators ?""","""Feel free samiinh . After all , chemist asked me the same question just yesterday pertaining to the same subject . And the same question about being angry at an allegedly non existent God applies to you too .""",DISAGREE,"""Have you forgotten to take your meds today ? Because your chemical imbalance is evident .""","""Feel free samiinh . After all , chemist asked me the same question just yesterday pertaining to the same subject .""",,
33514,8777,"""And Budweiser is directly responsible for more cases of vehicular homicide , liver failure , spousal abuse and drunken brawls , than any of Browning 's designs could ever be used for . Try again little man , try again .""","""So ? MLK didnt die by beer A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue . The basic idea is to `` win `` an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic .""",DISAGREE,"""Budweiser is directly responsible for more cases of vehicular homicide , liver failure , spousal abuse and drunken brawls , than any of Browning 's designs could ever be used for .""","""So ? MLK didnt die by""",,
33528,8778,"""Then how do we morally judge God ?""","""That 's kind of the point ... to morally judge would mean they that being is on the same level or beneath you . It does n't make sense for the servant to such a thing .""",DISAGREE,"""Then how do we morally judge God ?""","""That 's kind of the point ... to morally judge would mean they that being is on the same level or beneath you .""",,
33532,8779,"""Pretend that you are not biased all you want , the bias is unmistakable . I also do not claim that proof for God exists , only that we should consider the possibility . More questions , not less , are always preferable .""","""You can consider it all you want philosophically , you just ca n't figure it into science , not at present . It 's not as though Creationists have any idea how to test Intelligent Design , because `` Goddidit ! `` is n't a scientific theory . And no matter how much ID Creationists like to pretend they are n't all about god and biblical creation , they are transparent in their disingenuity .""",DISAGREE,"""I also do not claim that proof for God exists , only that we should consider the possibility""","""You can consider it all you want philosophically , you just ca n't figure it into science , not at present""",,
33534,8780,"""the only stupid gun laws are the laws that arent strict enough like the law that gun nuts wanted that would allow children to tote around assault rifles how stupid can you be""","""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law ( which says otherwise ) always trumps local law .""",DISAGREE,"""that law to you""","""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law ( which says otherwise ) always trumps local law""",,
33535,8780,"""the only stupid gun laws are the laws that arent strict enough like the law that gun nuts wanted that would allow children to tote around assault rifles how stupid can you be""","""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law ( which says otherwise ) always trumps local law .""",DISAGREE,"""the only stupid gun laws are the laws""","""We explained to you ( more than once ) that federal law""",,
33551,8786,"""The Daily Beacon There 's absolutely no way in hell this could be legal in any sense . That California school got * * * * * slapped for expelling a student who had a gun off campus , beyond the jurisdictional reach of the school . So how can this school believe they can get away with such an insane policy ?""","""Hummm , student athletes not all students . They got big problems .""",DISAGREE,"""The Daily Beacon There 's absolutely no way in hell this could be legal in any sense .""","""Hummm , student athletes not all students .""",,
33559,8787,"""Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar 's and to God the things that are God 's . And good moral character is one of the things to render unto God . So , the answer is there is a higher Law than the Constitution . God rules !""","""Sure , that 's what you believe . But the Constitution is what this country is founded on , so naturally laws should reflect it . If you personally choose to live your life in accordance to the bible , that 's fine . But the Bible , like many other foreign documents , has no place in politics . Religious influence in government is highly un-American .""",DISAGREE,"""the answer is there is a higher Law than the Constitution . God rules !""","""the Bible , like many other foreign documents , has no place in politics .""",,
33561,8788,"""For obvious reasons we Christians have always been adamant supporters of civil liberties when it comes to freedom of religion . We have even managed to be consistent in this principle by not opposing the rights of Buddhists , New Agers , or even Satanists to meet , because we realize that to do so would equally undercut our own right to assemble . Perhaps the thought of undermining religious freedom sends through our minds flashes of those days when the Emperor Nero used to ignite Christians as human torches to light the streets of Rome at night . The persecutions against the early church have ingrained into our Christian consciousness the incredible value of living under a government that protects the interests of religion . But in the case of civil same-sex marriage , instead of recognizing the civil rights issue at stake here , we oppose the idea , quoting Bible verses and appealing to morals , nature , tradition , history , and the fear that Western civilization as we know it will come crashing to the ground . All of these arguments are related , of course . They are an appeal to that part of American society in which Judeo-Christian values are still deeply rooted . For even in America at the dawning of the 21st century , many people 's understanding of morality and nature still reflect the vestiges of the Western Christendom of our heritage , as do their ideas of tradition , history and an ideal society . We do not , however , argue against civil same-sex marriage in the spirit of calm persuasion . There is desperation in our tone . There is also a great deal of fear and mean-spiritedness in our rhetoric , to the point where we even accuse homosexuals ( without much proof , I might add ) of being child molesters and sexual predators , and of seeking to corrupt our youth by recruiting them into their `` lifestyle. `` There are probably many people who think they are justified in having such fears , but it seems to me it is more than just paranoia that feeds our frenzy . We feel deeply threatened , for we sense that we are losing the battle . Not simply the battle against homosexuals , but the battle to hang on to what we still think of as `` Christian America. `` At one time in this country we could count on quoting a verse from Genesis or Leviticus before Congress or the Supreme Court and that would be the end of the debate . No more . The consensus of common biblical values on which we had once depended is giving way to the pluralism of a postmodern society . And seeing the disastrous handwriting on the wall , we have become politically desperate , and so we lunge at the enemies of Christendom with a ferocity that rivals that of even the most radical gay activists .""","""The other articles on her website are also well worth reading : Musings on Christianity , Homosexuality & amp ; the Bible""",AGREE,"""We have even managed to be consistent in this principle""","""Musings on Christianity , Homosexuality & the Bible""",,
33569,8789,"""3 . ) I do n't lie dude . 4 . ) Because we do n't give the response you would like is not wrong .""","""That has nothing to do with acknowledging or not acknowledging facts .""",DISAGREE,"""Because we do n't give the you would like is not wrong .""","""That has nothing to do with acknowledging""",,
33593,8800,"""Is your point that citizens should be allowed to have guns to defend themselves from the government or that citizens should be allowed to have guns to protect themselves from other citizens ? As for protecting form the government , I highly doubt that the U.S. military would be used to massacre U.S. citizens because its actions are far too public . It certaintly is possible that a more secretive organization such as the NSA would be able to carry out plans such as the ones which you described in other countries . However , do you think it would be possible for ordinary citizens armed with firearms to stop the highly trained employees of the NSA ? As for protection from other citizens , I think that the government should allow this , but I also think that people should n't have guns . So if the number of guns owned by citizens in the U.S. were to decrease , I would want it to be a voluntary change , not one forced by the government . There should still be gun regulation just as there is regulation of any product on the market .""","""You might want to pick up a history book and read it . Try reading both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers for starters . If you were familiar with them , then you would 've already had the answer to your first question . Your selective memory is at work again . As I recall , in Waco military vehicles and equipment were used against the Branch Davidians . Nevermind the presence of members of Delta Force which was denied , at first , by the government . Then they were caught lying again about using flammable tear gas which , ironically enough , is banned by the Geneva Convention for use against enemy troops . In the end , the 'open and shut case ' the government thought they had , blew up in their faces because of their lies and abuses . I also recall , at some point around the time of the Great Depression that U.S. troops were called out to quell food riots in New York , I think it was . There were a couple of young officers present by the name of MacArthur and Patton , I believe . There are a few other instances I 'm sure . I note your glee about secret agencies and their awesome firepower in which mere citizens would be defenseless against . Is your closet full of brown shirts ? You must be proud . Huh ? You 're for protecting yourself against other citizens as long as it does n't involve guns ? Of course , that would n't apply to the criminal that you 're protecting yourself against ! Why do n't you read how well your gun bans are working in other countries ? Regulation ? The only regulation should be mandatory firearms training for all citizens like in Switzerland . Not the 'regulation ' that you liberals would propose which , of course , always leads to an outright ban of private ownership . Why do you fear the 'people ' ? It does n't matter what you think , the second amendment is clear enough all by itself . Try reading the Constitution again .""",DISAGREE,"""Is your point that citizens should be allowed to have guns to defend themselves from the government or that citizens should be allowed to have guns to protect themselves from other citizens ?""","""You might want to pick up a history book and read it . Try reading both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers for starters . If you were familiar with them , then you would 've already had the answer to your first question .""",,
33586,8800,"""Is your point that citizens should be allowed to have guns to defend themselves from the government or that citizens should be allowed to have guns to protect themselves from other citizens ? As for protecting form the government , I highly doubt that the U.S. military would be used to massacre U.S. citizens because its actions are far too public . It certaintly is possible that a more secretive organization such as the NSA would be able to carry out plans such as the ones which you described in other countries . However , do you think it would be possible for ordinary citizens armed with firearms to stop the highly trained employees of the NSA ? As for protection from other citizens , I think that the government should allow this , but I also think that people should n't have guns . So if the number of guns owned by citizens in the U.S. were to decrease , I would want it to be a voluntary change , not one forced by the government . There should still be gun regulation just as there is regulation of any product on the market .""","""You might want to pick up a history book and read it . Try reading both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers for starters . If you were familiar with them , then you would 've already had the answer to your first question . Your selective memory is at work again . As I recall , in Waco military vehicles and equipment were used against the Branch Davidians . Nevermind the presence of members of Delta Force which was denied , at first , by the government . Then they were caught lying again about using flammable tear gas which , ironically enough , is banned by the Geneva Convention for use against enemy troops . In the end , the 'open and shut case ' the government thought they had , blew up in their faces because of their lies and abuses . I also recall , at some point around the time of the Great Depression that U.S. troops were called out to quell food riots in New York , I think it was . There were a couple of young officers present by the name of MacArthur and Patton , I believe . There are a few other instances I 'm sure . I note your glee about secret agencies and their awesome firepower in which mere citizens would be defenseless against . Is your closet full of brown shirts ? You must be proud . Huh ? You 're for protecting yourself against other citizens as long as it does n't involve guns ? Of course , that would n't apply to the criminal that you 're protecting yourself against ! Why do n't you read how well your gun bans are working in other countries ? Regulation ? The only regulation should be mandatory firearms training for all citizens like in Switzerland . Not the 'regulation ' that you liberals would propose which , of course , always leads to an outright ban of private ownership . Why do you fear the 'people ' ? It does n't matter what you think , the second amendment is clear enough all by itself . Try reading the Constitution again .""",DISAGREE,"""do you think it would be possible for ordinary citizens armed with firearms to stop the highly trained employees of the NSA ?""","""Why do n't you read how well your gun bans are working in other countries ? Why do you fear the 'people ' ?""",,
33603,8801,"""Look at Hawaiian Honeycreepers . Willful ignorance is a way of life . Hawaiian honeycreeper : Information from Answers.com""","""That 's a good argument , just post a link and hope that people accept it as a real argument . Show me where a new body part has evolved .""",DISAGREE,"""Look at Hawaiian Honeycreepers . Willful ignorance is a way of life .""","""That 's a good argument , just post a link and hope that people accept it as a real argument""",,
33600,8801,"""Look at Hawaiian Honeycreepers . Willful ignorance is a way of life . Hawaiian honeycreeper : Information from Answers.com""","""That 's a good argument , just post a link and hope that people accept it as a real argument . Show me where a new body part has evolved .""",DISAGREE,"""Look at Hawaiian Honeycreepers . Willful ignorance is a way of life . Hawaiian honeycreeper : Information from Answers.com""","""That 's a good argument , just post a link and hope that people accept it as a real argument .""",,
33611,8802,"""They do provide many more services than providing abortions : P""","""Yet according to PP themselves , they provide FAR more abortions and EC services than any of their other services . : P PPFA Services ( 2002-2003 ) Surgical abortions : 227,385 Emergency contraception : 633,756 Prenatal care : 15,860 Adoption referrals : 1,963 ( Source : www.plannedparenthood.org )""",DISAGREE,"""They do provide many more services than providing abortions""","""Yet according to PP themselves , they provide FAR more abortions and EC services than any of their other services""",,
33618,8803,"""By all means , do n't try to redefine marriage and the problem is solved .""","""Exactly .""",AGREE,"""By all means , do n't try to redefine marriage and the problem is solved .""","""Exactly""",,
33617,8803,"""By all means , do n't try to redefine marriage and the problem is solved .""","""Exactly .""",AGREE,"""By all means , do n't try to redefine marriage and the problem is solved .""","""Exactly""",,
33642,8806,"""I really have to commend AIG in that they did not list `` Dr. `` Kent Hovind , `` Dr. `` Carl Baugh , `` Dr. `` Don Patton . However , the AIG does list Thomas Barnes who 's highest earned degree is an MS in physics , his Sc.D being honorary from his undergraduate , Christian university . Clifford Burdick has a `` degree `` from a non-university ( as described in the mimeographed bulletin of the `` University of Physical Sciences `` , from which Burdick claimed his degree : `` 'The University is not an educational institution , but a society of individuals of common interest for the advancement of physical science . There are no campus , professors or tuition fee . '' ) . Harold Slusher has an honorary degree from a Bible college with only a 1/2 man graduate science department in addition to his `` degree `` from Columbia Pacific University a non-accredited correspondence school that promises a degree in less than a year . I do note that Clifford Burdick is listed on list of deceased scientists who believed in a creator . I presume that the rest of the `` scientists `` listed by AIG actually have the PhDs that AIG claims of all 182 listed .""","""So this list was a surprise to you ? This is n't the first time that the `` challange to come up with one scientist who believed that humans do not share common ancestry with apes `` has come up on these forums . When refuted , the goal posts move , and it 's shown how several scientists who do n't believe in common ancestry are dwarfed by percentages of those who do , with of course , a dose of ridicule thrown in . Is that how students are sometimes `` educated `` in today 's universities ? A false implication is made to belittle creation as much as possible , and if not questioned , is quickly built upon ? And if questioned , the goalposts are moved and the questioner is riduculed ?""",DISAGREE,"""I really have to commend AIG in that they did not list `` Dr. `` Kent Hovind , `` Dr. `` Carl Baugh , `` Dr. `` Don Patton . However , the AIG does list Thomas Barnes who 's highest earned degree is an MS in physics , his Sc.D being honorary from his undergraduate , Christian university . Clifford Burdick has a `` degree `` from a non-university ( as described in the mimeographed bulletin of the `` University of Physical Sciences `` , from which Burdick claimed his degree : `` 'The University is not an educational institution , but a society of individuals of common interest for the advancement of physical science . There are no campus , professors or tuition fee . '' ) . Harold Slusher has an honorary degree from a Bible college with only a 1/2 man graduate science department in addition to his `` degree `` from Columbia Pacific University a non-accredited correspondence school that promises a degree in less than a I do note that Clifford Burdick is listed on list of deceased scientists who believed in a creator . I presume that the rest of the `` scientists `` listed by AIG actually have the PhDs that AIG claims of all 182 listed .""","""So this list was a surprise to you ? This is n't the first time that the `` challange to come up with one scientist who believed that humans do not share common ancestry with apes `` has come up on these When refuted , the goal posts move , and it 's shown how several scientists who do n't believe in common ancestry are dwarfed by percentages of those who do , with of course , a dose of ridicule thrown Is that how students are sometimes `` educated `` in today 's universities ? A false implication is made to belittle creation as much as possible , and if not questioned , is quickly built upon ? And if questioned , the goalposts are moved and the questioner is riduculed ?""",,
33649,8807,"""'' Slaughtered them wholesale `` ? What alternate reality is this considered accurate from ?""","""Um , recorded and document Anglo/Irish history ? The same history that led John Major and Anthony Blair to apologize to the Irish people .""",DISAGREE,"""Slaughtered them wholesale `` ?""","""The same history that led John Major and Anthony Blair to apologize to the Irish people .""",,
33658,8810,"""With 250 million guns owned in the U.S. today -- it & # 8217 ; s as if we & # 8217 ; re permanently awaiting a siege that will never come -- there & # 8217 ; s simply no hope of eradicating arms from the American equation .""","""Well if no siege comes , I guess no harm no foul .""",AGREE,"""there s simply no hope of eradicating arms from the American equation .""","""I guess no harm no foul .""",,
33677,8816,"""Dying Lesbian 's Partner Denied Access To Her by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff Posted : February 22 , 2008 - 1:00 pm ET ( Miami , Florida ) Janice Langbehn and Lisa Pond had planned to take their three children on a family cruise . The Olympia , Washington couple had been together 18 years and with their children were looking forward to the holiday . But just as they were about to depart on the cruise from Miami , Florida . Pond , a healthy 39-year-old , suddenly collapsed . She was rushed to Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami with Langbehn and the children following close behind . But once Langbehn and the children arrived at the hospital the hospital refused to accept information from her about Ponds ’ s medical history . Langbehn says she was informed that she was in an antigay city and state , and she could expect to receive no information or acknowledgment as family . A doctor finally spoke with Janice telling her that there was no chance of recovery . Other than one five minute visit , which was orchestrated by a Catholic priest at Langbehn ’ s request to perform last rites , and despite the doctor ’ s acknowledgement that no medical reason existed to prevent visitation , neither she nor her children were allowed to see Pond until nearly eight hours after their arrival . Soon after Pond '  ’ s death , Langbehn tried to get her death certificate in order to get life insurance and Social Security benefits for their children . She was denied both by the State of Florida and the Dade County Medical Examiner . http : //www.365gay.com/Newscon08/02/022208fla.htm Note the above . She was informed she was in an `` anti-gay state `` ... 1 ) As I have pointed out before , some of the `` anti-gay marriage `` amendments go well and beyond just `` no gay marriage `` to antagonizing gays by stating in law that gays can not perform certain legal functions , regardless of whether or not it is called `` marriage `` . 2 ) Does anybody have any real doubt that if the two ladies had just walked in as `` friends `` , that this problem would not have happened ? 3 ) I think this furthers my point regarding how some people 's actions and statements FURTHER anti-gay bullying , and that refusing to acknowledge this relationship , or `` blame `` , is futile . The hospital perpetrated this gross violation of human decency invoking the STATE stance .""","""Whether this has anything to do with marriage or not , it is deplorable that A PERSON who loves another person should be denied a hospital visit for any reason other than concerns related to health . The hospital staff erred in denying the visits , especially those of the children . The denial of the partner 's bedside visit is also deplorable . There is no legitimate reason to deny a peaceful visit from any friend or family member to the bedside of a dying person unless it would negatively affect the health and well being of either party . If it positively affects the health and well being of either of them , it should certainly be permitted . I think the hospital staff should be chastised and punished to the point of remembering this incident forever as a reason to relax their prejudices and get with the program . There is nothing wrong with gay/lesbian people that love and understanding can not cure .""",AGREE,"""she was in an antigay city and state no medical reason existed to prevent visitation `` The hospital perpetrated this gross violation of human decency invoking the STATE stance .""","""There is no legitimate reason to deny a peaceful visit from any friend or family member to the bedside of a dying person""",,
33679,8817,"""That ’ s the face of human nature that make it all too easy to accept without realizing that a controversy even exists , and it does exist . If it didn ’ t , evolutionists wouldn ’ t be afraid of challenges .""","""So what you 're saying is that if ID really were worthless non-science , we 'd be able to tell because everyone would be happy for it to be taught alongside evolution in science class ? Yeah , that makes perfect sense Hopefully you can now see how far we 've meandered around the disparate issues . Let 's recap : 1 . Can looking for intelligent design be scientific ? One can apply the scientific method to any study . So far , the results of that application to ID ( largely through peer review ) indicate that it is not logically possible to positively infer the presence of design in a biological structure . 2 . Is the work the ID movement has produced rigorous , and are its results significant ? No . The fundamentally flawed assumption that irreducible complexity can not be achieved by evolutionary means invalidates all derivative results , and Dembski 's 'specified complexity ' is neither consistent , measurable , nor meaningful . Several structures claimed to represent evidence of design have admitted to evolutionary paths ( including , ironically , some of the analogies used in their literature in an attempt to illustrate things design alone can accomplish ) 3 . Should ID be opposed as a scientific endeavour ? Of course not . We only ever learn by imagining ; by striking out in unexpected and even seemingly absurd directions - just so long as we 're rigorous in our logic and our testing . I do n't think design science would ever bear useful fruit , but I would never oppose someone pursuing it . 4 . Should ID as it stands be taught as an alternative to evolution in science classrooms ? Absolutely not . It presently stands on a par with hypotheses about the 'electric universe ' , or firey comets flying out of the sun , or any number of inventive , potentially appealing , but utterly unsubstantiated notions . Its few published results have been obliterated in peer review and there 's quite simply nothing there to teach .""",DISAGREE,"""the face of human nature that make it all too easy to accept without realizing that a controversy even exists If it , evolutionists be afraid of challenges .""","""it is not logically possible to positively infer the presence of design in a biological structure . It presently stands on a par with hypotheses about the 'electric universe ' Its few published results have been obliterated in peer review and there 's quite simply nothing there to teach .""",,
33684,8818,"""`` Almighty God created the races white , black , yellow , malay and red , and he placed them on separate continents . And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages . The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix. ``""","""So basiclly the equal protection argument will help us based upon sex . There is also this at the end""",AGREE,"""God created the races white , black , yellow , malay and red but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages .""","""the equal protection argument will help us There is also this at the end""",,
33690,8828,"""I believe that you , sir , are little more than a partisan hack bending reality to fit your agenda .""","""Hardly . Obviously I had a lot more sense than you . My house and land is paid for long ago , I refused all credit cards including VISA and BOA and shun debt . Hardly a hack until is comes to strong arm union tactics who use force to chill public debate or frighten working folks in their family home ... unless they are public officials . I have worked mobs in an official capacity I do n't think you can enlighten me much on mobocracy . I think your whole problem is you bought the scenario of blame the messenger to avoid placing the economic blame where it belongs . What is next ? 60 's style Alinsky tactics and bombing those you disagree with on American soil ?""",DISAGREE,"""I believe that you , sir , are little more than a partisan hack bending reality to fit your agenda .""","""I think your whole problem is you bought the scenario of blame the messenger to avoid placing the economic blame where it belongs""",,
33728,8841,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""Or at least eliminate some of the competition from the workforce . ( A bit callous I know . ) War has historically assisted the economy although not completely . How many outstanding WWII debts are there ? I believe only finland has repaid in full .""",DISAGREE,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""Or at least eliminate some of the competition from the workforce .""",,
33730,8841,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""Or at least eliminate some of the competition from the workforce . ( A bit callous I know . ) War has historically assisted the economy although not completely . How many outstanding WWII debts are there ? I believe only finland has repaid in full .""",DISAGREE,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""the competition from the workforce""",,
33729,8841,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""Or at least eliminate some of the competition from the workforce . ( A bit callous I know . ) War has historically assisted the economy although not completely . How many outstanding WWII debts are there ? I believe only finland has repaid in full .""",DISAGREE,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war""","""Or at least eliminate some of the competition from the workforce War has historically assisted the economy although not completely .""",,
33742,8844,"""Anyways , this bird does not have any feathers and as a result it can swin and dive quite well .""","""Actually , the bird is fully feathered . The feathers offer insulation and of course , when impregnated with oil , buoyancy . Where did you get your information ? Well , no matter . You bought it hook , line and sinker . Did it occur to you that you should possibly check your `` facts `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""this bird does not have any feathers and as a result it can swin and dive quite well .""","""the bird is fully feathered . The feathers offer insulation""",,
33785,8855,"""Well Whoop-Dee-Doo ! If you want Homosexual Marriage , be prepared to shell out more $ $ $ when Uncle Sam comes to collect when , in the inevitability , you should call it splitsville . Oh , wait a minute ! You have abso-freaking-lutely no qualms about forcing Mr. and Mrs. John Q . Taxpayer to pony up more dough , though , do ya ? ?""","""You need to read the whole article before you make such statements . The point of the article is that the provisions for divorce that are available to heterosexual married couples are NOT available to same-sex married couples because of the discriminatory federal law ( DOMA ) and because of state laws that do not recognize same-sex marriage , thus not allowing for legal divorce . Read the whole article and see what you think . Should n't all married couples have access to equal rights and provisions for division of property when they divorce ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you want Homosexual Marriage , be prepared to shell out more $ $ $ when Uncle Sam comes to collect""","""The point of the article is that the provisions for divorce that are available to heterosexual married couples""",,
33791,8857,"""Evolution is not needed to explain such an event , as natural selection clearly accounts for it .""","""Evolution does n't explain the event . The event is an example of evolution - a change in the frequency of alleles in a populatioin over time . The explanation may or may not be evolution by natural selection . You merely asserted that based on your imagined case .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution is not needed to explain such an event , as natural selection clearly accounts for it .""","""Evolution does n't explain the event . The event is an example of evolution""",,
33798,8859,"""Persoanlly , I think both sides are wrong . I think that the evolutionists have fallen prey to the arrogance of the soft sciences . In striving to understand something , they have taken a relatively small body of evidence , made up a big story around it , and told themselves `` we know it all now `` rather than accepting that their explanation may not be entirely correct .""","""But then , you are obviously scientifically illiterate . Why do n't you think that the panal of scientists who were hired to write the standards know better than you ? It is , after all , their field .""",DISAGREE,"""their explanation may not be entirely correct .""","""It is , their field""",,
33801,8860,"""Not if it were enforced and a suggestions for how the law could be better enforced are given in the report .""","""No it did n't , there 's no suggestions for how to enforce background checks to stomp out straw purchases . Stop offering non-solutions .""",DISAGREE,"""Not if it were enforced and a suggestions for how the law could be better enforced are given in the report .""","""No it did n't , there 's no suggestions for how to enforce background checks to stomp out straw purchases .""",,
33828,8869,"""We thought it would take roughly a million years for bacteria to evolve enzymes capable of digesting nylon ( because the compound is so different than any they were able to digest ) but it took less than a century . .""","""Were they able to show a previously non-existing code that mutated on a gene somewhere and created this new enzyme activity ? It sounds to me that this `` new `` enzymatic activity came from non-coding dna switching on a gene to produce it . That is what one would expect to find . ... * Two new enzyme activities , 6-aminohexanoate cyclic dimer hydrolase and 6-aminohexanoate dimer hydrolase , were detected in the adapted strains . * ...""",DISAGREE,"""We thought it would take roughly a million years for bacteria to evolve enzymes capable of digesting nylon""","""sounds to me that this `` new `` enzymatic activity came from non-coding dna switching on a gene to produce it .""",,
33831,8870,"""Is this the sort of thing that is being taught at that bastion of liberal science , MIT ? How can this be presented as fact rather than theory ? New and improved nuclear fuel created Nuclear fission , neutrons and protons , and even the atom itself are just theories . No one has ever seen an atom or a neutron . No one has ever observed an atom split . Why are our liberal news media allowed to present this as fact ? Moreover , are n't nuclear reactors designed by intelligent humans ? I also notice that this research was funded by our hard earned tax dollars without requiring that the benevolence of God also be researched in equal time . This is yet another shameful example of the godless attitude of science .""","""Good pick up . Also , how do we `` know `` that the heat generated in these reactors is from so-called `` nuclear fission `` and not a heavenly gift to allow us our god-given right to toasters and ipods . The scientists had funny foreign names , so they are likely non-christian terrorists who hate freedom . Anyway , this nucular physics stuff is just another religion .""",DISAGREE,"""Why are our liberal news media allowed to present this as fact ?""","""The scientists had funny foreign names , so they are likely non-christian terrorists who hate freedom .""",,
33836,8873,"""I 'm for gun control . I believe you should have a steady hand , firm grip , calm breath , and a smooth pull . The more control , the better the shot .""","""and al shots in the ten range . And in response to Zachvac i mean guns not arms ( as in nukes ) but im fine with automatics and such in the right hands .""",AGREE,"""I believe you should have a steady hand , firm grip , calm breath , and a smooth pull .""","""and al shots in the ten range . And in response to Zachvac i mean guns not arms ( as in nukes )""",,
33856,8890,"""Waving signs denouncing bank `` greed , `` hordes of invaders poured out of 14 school buses , up Baer 's steps , and onto his front porch . As bullhorns rattled with stories of debtor calls and foreclosed homes , Baer 's teenage son Jack -- alone in the house -- locked himself in the bathroom . '' When are they going to leave ? `` Jack pleaded when I called to check on him . But when hundreds of loud and angry strangers are descending on your family , your children , and your home , a more apt description of this assemblage would be `` mob. `` Intimidation was the whole point of this exercise , and it worked-even on the police . A trio of officers who belatedly answered our calls confessed a fear that arrests might `` incite `` these trespassers .""","""Let me translate . The Cops were afraid ! At the very least , they surely did n't protect this home owner , or the residents of this street ! Is Anyone else troubled by this next part ? D.C. Metro Police Escorted SEIU Protesters to Bank Of America Executive ’ s Home""",AGREE,"""When are they going to leave ? `` Jack pleaded when I called to check on him .""","""Let me translate . The Cops were afraid ! At the very least ,""",,
33858,8891,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Lurch , Why are Ernst Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` embryo drawings , ( which were proven false in the 1880 's ) still in text books ?""","""Usually as examples of errors , do you have a specific example ? From TO Regarding Futuyma 's use of the Haeckel embryo drawings in the 3rd edition of Evolutionary Biology , Wells writes ( p. 109 ) , `` But it was Futuyma who mindlessly recycled Haeckel 's embryos in several editions of his textbook , until a 'creationist ' criticized him for it. `` However , an inspection of Futuyma 's 1st and 2nd editions of Evolutionary Biology reveals that no such drawings were included in these editions . In the first edition , Haeckel 's biogenetic law and the problems with it are discussed on page 153 in respectable fashion ( this corresponds with page 303 in the second edition ) -- and in fact the primary issue surrounding Haeckel in textbooks , which has always been to debunk Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` oversimplification , is in fact admirably discussed in all three editions .""",DISAGREE,"""Why are Ernst Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` embryo drawings , ( which were proven false in the 1880 's ) still in text books ?""","""But it was Futuyma who mindlessly recycled Haeckel 's embryos in several editions of his textbook , until a 'creationist ' criticized him for .""",,
33860,8891,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Lurch , Why are Ernst Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` embryo drawings , ( which were proven false in the 1880 's ) still in text books ?""","""Usually as examples of errors , do you have a specific example ? From TO Regarding Futuyma 's use of the Haeckel embryo drawings in the 3rd edition of Evolutionary Biology , Wells writes ( p. 109 ) , `` But it was Futuyma who mindlessly recycled Haeckel 's embryos in several editions of his textbook , until a 'creationist ' criticized him for it. `` However , an inspection of Futuyma 's 1st and 2nd editions of Evolutionary Biology reveals that no such drawings were included in these editions . In the first edition , Haeckel 's biogenetic law and the problems with it are discussed on page 153 in respectable fashion ( this corresponds with page 303 in the second edition ) -- and in fact the primary issue surrounding Haeckel in textbooks , which has always been to debunk Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` oversimplification , is in fact admirably discussed in all three editions .""",DISAGREE,"""Why are Ernst Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` embryo drawings , ( which were proven false in the 1880 's ) still in text books ?""","""Usually as examples of errors , do you have a specific example ? ``""",,
33862,8891,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Lurch , Why are Ernst Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` embryo drawings , ( which were proven false in the 1880 's ) still in text books ?""","""Usually as examples of errors , do you have a specific example ? From TO Regarding Futuyma 's use of the Haeckel embryo drawings in the 3rd edition of Evolutionary Biology , Wells writes ( p. 109 ) , `` But it was Futuyma who mindlessly recycled Haeckel 's embryos in several editions of his textbook , until a 'creationist ' criticized him for it. `` However , an inspection of Futuyma 's 1st and 2nd editions of Evolutionary Biology reveals that no such drawings were included in these editions . In the first edition , Haeckel 's biogenetic law and the problems with it are discussed on page 153 in respectable fashion ( this corresponds with page 303 in the second edition ) -- and in fact the primary issue surrounding Haeckel in textbooks , which has always been to debunk Haeckel 's `` ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny `` oversimplification , is in fact admirably discussed in all three editions .""",DISAGREE,"""Originally posted by FreeThinker Lurch""","""Usually as examples of errors , do you have a specific example""",,
33868,8893,"""Playing God 's advocate here . Most , but not all , religions assume that there 's a special relationship between God and man . Almost symbiotic , although that does n't quite catch all the subtleties . If evolution is true , then the universe was around for billions of years , as was the earth , before people showed up . If we are God 's special interest , then he probably would n't have waited around billions of years for us to evolve . If we `` just happened `` then most religion 's idea that God cares about us in some special way is thrown into serious doubt .""","""Actually it just took GOD a long time to work out the bugs in his ideas thats why humans only appeared very recently . We are special because he took his time to gain the skills and knowledge necessary to build his masterpieces - namely us . We are after all the crown of creation meant to dominate all the inferior life forms and to take whatever we wish from the planet . Are we not ?""",DISAGREE,"""If evolution is true , then the universe was around for billions of years , as was the earth , before people showed up . If we are God 's special interest , then he probably would n't have waited around billions of years for us to evolve . ``""","""Actually it just took GOD a long time to work out the bugs in his ideas thats why humans only appeared very recently .""",,
33875,8894,"""The hypothesis of a mitochondria Eve is about 17 years old and has been shown to be wrong .""","""Really ? When and by whom ? I was n't even aware that it was an hypothesis but simply a mathematical concept derived from the mutation rate of the mitochondrial DNA . Possibly the time has been adjusted due to differing estimates of the mutatiion rate , but the concept is valid . Here is some information . Monty , I would recommend that you read the books suggested so that you might gain some understanding of what you are discussing . You continue to make yourself look foolish . River out of Eden is a good , basic introduction to the main concepts of evolutionary biology . For information on Mitochondrial Eve see What , if anything , is a Mitochondrial Eve ?""",DISAGREE,"""The hypothesis of a mitochondria Eve is about 17 years old and has been shown to be wrong .""","""Really ? When and by whom ? I was n't even aware that it was an hypothesis but simply a mathematical concept derived from the mutation rate of the mitochondrial DNA .""",,
33886,8896,"""Faith by definition is a belief without evidence .""","""yes . But then you throw in `` reasoned faith `` . But then you are making up terms that try to show faith as reason . What is reasoned faith ? If reasoned faith is the same as `` reason `` , then fine , you are n't using faith . If it 's faith , belief without evidence , then your evidence is your faith , and thus , it 's circular . If your faith is even part of your `` evidence `` or `` reason `` for belief , then logically the entire claim is arrived at through circular reasoning . You can use both all you like , I 'm just letting you know it 's fallacy to claim faith as evidence , which you do . If you do not , then you are using reason , and not faith , and we do n't need to continue because I see no fallacy in using evidence to back your claim . Enjoy . I found this as well , maybe it will be worded in such a way that you understand , since you seem to reject my arguments based on my name . http : //rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/ ... /answers2.html""",AGREE,"""Faith by definition is a belief without evidence .""","""What is reasoned faith ? If reasoned faith is the same as `` reason `` , then fine , you are n't using faith""",,
33888,8897,"""Cause a persons a person no matter how small - Dr. Seuss Horton Hears a Who""","""And a non-person is a non-person no matter how large it is !""",AGREE,"""Cause a persons a person no matter how small""","""a non-person is a non-person no matter how large it is !""",,
33915,8901,"""The point is that a gun took MLKs life !""","""So you would be OK with MLK and Browning sharing the day if MLK had been stabbed ? Hows the list coming Brady ? Poking the Troll is a fun game""",DISAGREE,"""The point is that a gun took MLKs life !""","""you would be OK with MLK and Browning sharing the day if MLK had been stabbed ?""",,
33911,8901,"""The point is that a gun took MLKs life !""","""So you would be OK with MLK and Browning sharing the day if MLK had been stabbed ? Hows the list coming Brady ? Poking the Troll is a fun game""",DISAGREE,"""The point is that a gun took MLKs life !""","""MLK and Browning sharing the day if MLK had been stabbed ?""",,
33927,8903,"""And it also took an amendment to give the slaves rights , not a judge .""","""And it will , I guess , take an amendment to deny rights to and make a whole segment of the population second class citizens .""",DISAGREE,"""took an amendment to give the slaves rights , not a judge""","""take an amendment to deny rights to and make a whole segment of the population second class citizens""",,
33936,8905,"""Er ... because it 's an important issue to you and he 's your candidate ? ? ? Or it is only an important issue to you on non-election years ? .""","""Actually , Biden is n't a Democrat I would have chosen . But then , I 'm not standing for election . What I do know is he is n't the raving homophobe the Republicans prefer as candidates .""",DISAGREE,"""it 's an important issue to you and he 's your candidate ? Or an important issue to you on non-election years ? .""","""Biden is n't a Democrat I would have chosen . What I do know is he is n't the raving homophobe the Republicans prefer as candidates""",,
33953,8909,"""`` If men strive , and hurt a woman with child , so that her fruit depart from her , and yet no mischief follow : he shall be surely punished , according as the woman 's husband will lay upon him ; and he shall pay as the judges determine . And if any mischief follow , then thou shalt give life for life. `` - Ex 20:22-23 this suggests that when an abortion occurs , the one responsible will be punished , but not by death unless the woman is killed . even the bibles says that the mother 's life is more important than the fetus .""","""This applies only when men strive ... that is fight . If a man `` Accidently `` hits a woman while in a fight and causes her to lose her child then all he has to do is pay a fine . But if he keeps fighting and hurt other people he gets killed . Even in the Bible you dont get punished so severly on accidents .""",DISAGREE,"""even the bibles says that the mother 's life is more important than the fetus .""","""This applies only when men strive ... that is fight . If a man `` Accidently `` hits a woman while in a fight and causes her to lose her child then all he has to do is pay a fine""",,
33960,8911,"""I wonder how many are exaggerated .""","""Oh , probably about as many as there are killed by bayonet lugs , pistol grips , heat shields , detachable magazines , and folding stocks .""",DISAGREE,"""I wonder how many are exaggerated .""","""Oh , probably about as many as there are killed by bayonet lugs , pistol grips , heat shields , detachable magazines , and folding stocks .""",,
33974,8921,"""what evidence ? like the beaks of finches growing a few centimeters ? ... like the color patterns on moths changing in just a few years ? .... like size/color of fish changing accomodate their surroundings ? There is no proof of anything but the small stuff . There are no intermediates linking higher classes of animals .""","""I wouls also add that humans have been able to make CHIHUAHUAs and Irish wolf hounds from wolves .""",AGREE,"""like the beaks of finches growing a few centimeters ? ... like the color patterns on moths changing in just a few years ? .""","""I wouls also add that humans have been able to make CHIHUAHUAs and Irish wolf hounds from wolves .""",,
33986,8923,"""It is legal for a woman to abort a fetus in the first trimester , and further along if there are complications . No repercussions , no trials for murder , just kill the baby , it is n't viable yet ... But on the other hand , a pregnant woman is attacked in her first trimester and her baby dies . Her attacker is charged with murder of an unborn child , or intentional/unintentional conduct against a pregnancy . A pregnant woman is attacked and murdered . Now her attacker faces double homicide . My question is why is it ok for a woman to kill her baby and it is perfectly legal , but if someone else does it , why are they charged with murder , or manslaughter ?""","""Because when someone attacks the pregnant woman , she does n't have a choice whether the fetus dies . When she has an abortion , it is her choice . A woman should be able to choose whether or not she remains pregnant .""",DISAGREE,"""It is legal for a woman to abort a fetus in the first trimester , But on the other hand , a pregnant woman is attacked in her first trimester and her baby dies . Her attacker is charged with murder of an unborn child , My question is why is it ok for a woman to kill her baby and it is perfectly legal but if someone else does it , why are they charged with murder ,""","""Because when someone attacks the pregnant woman , she does n't have a choice whether the fetus dies""",,
33987,8923,"""It is legal for a woman to abort a fetus in the first trimester , and further along if there are complications . No repercussions , no trials for murder , just kill the baby , it is n't viable yet ... But on the other hand , a pregnant woman is attacked in her first trimester and her baby dies . Her attacker is charged with murder of an unborn child , or intentional/unintentional conduct against a pregnancy . A pregnant woman is attacked and murdered . Now her attacker faces double homicide . My question is why is it ok for a woman to kill her baby and it is perfectly legal , but if someone else does it , why are they charged with murder , or manslaughter ?""","""Because when someone attacks the pregnant woman , she does n't have a choice whether the fetus dies . When she has an abortion , it is her choice . A woman should be able to choose whether or not she remains pregnant .""",DISAGREE,"""No repercussions , no trials for murder , just kill the baby , it is n't viable yet""","""she does n't have a choice whether the fetus dies""",,
33984,8923,"""It is legal for a woman to abort a fetus in the first trimester , and further along if there are complications . No repercussions , no trials for murder , just kill the baby , it is n't viable yet ... But on the other hand , a pregnant woman is attacked in her first trimester and her baby dies . Her attacker is charged with murder of an unborn child , or intentional/unintentional conduct against a pregnancy . A pregnant woman is attacked and murdered . Now her attacker faces double homicide . My question is why is it ok for a woman to kill her baby and it is perfectly legal , but if someone else does it , why are they charged with murder , or manslaughter ?""","""Because when someone attacks the pregnant woman , she does n't have a choice whether the fetus dies . When she has an abortion , it is her choice . A woman should be able to choose whether or not she remains pregnant .""",DISAGREE,"""A pregnant woman is attacked and murdered . Now her attacker faces double homicide .""","""A woman should be able to choose whether or not she remains pregnant .""",,
33999,8926,"""But that can be tested at whatever level you want to use for `` kind `` and shown to be false . Has been shown to be false by phylogenetic analysis . No application of the mistaken Razor .""","""Actually , it has n't . Phylogenetic analysis has no relevance to Occam 's Razor . Further , DNA for all organisms is the same until you examine specific sequences . It is n't that the DNA is different , what matters is the the sequence of the bases is different .""",DISAGREE,"""But that can be tested at whatever level you want to use for `` kind `` and shown to be false .""","""Actually , it has n't . Phylogenetic analysis has no relevance to Occam 's Razor""",,
34003,8927,"""We have on this board alone , demands on our Constitution 's Bill of Rights of total Gun Registration , Mandatory Storage with as of yet undefined penalties , a photo ID .""","""Since that would be me let 's go over my position and you tell me which parts are n't reasonable and why : 1 . I 've advocated registration of all handguns but not all guns . 2 . I 've advocated mandatory secure storage for unattended firearms , like when you 're not home . 3 . I 've advocated photographing and fingerprinting for all handgun purchases .""",DISAGREE,"""We have on this board alone , demands on our Constitution 's Bill of Rights of total Gun Registration , Mandatory Storage with as of yet undefined penalties , a photo ID .""","""you tell me which parts are n't reasonable and why : 1 . I 've advocated registration of all handguns but not all guns . 2 . I 've advocated mandatory secure storage for unattended firearms , like when you 're not home . 3 . I 've advocated photographing and fingerprinting for all handgun purchases .""",,
34014,8931,"""Nobody is arguing that you should n't use locks on your door . As you yourself are an example , sometimes people forget to lock up . It 's nice to have another option in case things turn out violent .""","""I agree , but does another option need to be a deadly one ?""",DISAGREE,"""use locks on your door , sometimes people forget to lock up have another option in case things turn out violent""","""I agree , does another option need to be a deadly one ?""",,
34047,8937,"""OP : I tried to read your post ... I just could n't finish . I am going to go do something a little less painful , like sticking my hand in a blender . At least spell-check it ...""","""Well did I force you to read it ? I did n't think so ... And does it matter about a few words being mis-spelled . I dont think so ... And have you read any of my posts all the way through ... Prolly not so you did n't see my age .. Im only 14 and this is my Theory ... expecting a 14 year old to know correct grammar and Spelling is asking a monkey to do a backflip for you .""",DISAGREE,"""I tried to read your post ... I just could n't finish""","""I force you to read it ? I did n't think so ...""",,
34059,8939,"""That happens , too . For example , our gene for vitamin C is broken and no longer works . .""","""That 's an interesting subject , I had not heard of that b4 . Did our bodies once produce Vitamin C ? .""",AGREE,"""our gene for vitamin C is broken and no longer""","""That 's an interesting subject ,""",,
34086,8944,"""That 's really simplified . It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""Picture an astronaut connected to a spaceshuttle ... without that cord he wouldnt be able to live . so is he really able to live on his own or is he depending on something else to live ? ? i really dont see your point .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""Picture an astronaut connected to a spaceshuttle ... without that cord he wouldnt be able to live i really dont see your point .""",,
34085,8944,"""That 's really simplified . It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""Picture an astronaut connected to a spaceshuttle ... without that cord he wouldnt be able to live . so is he really able to live on his own or is he depending on something else to live ? ? i really dont see your point .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""i really dont see your point .""",,
34090,8944,"""That 's really simplified . It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""Picture an astronaut connected to a spaceshuttle ... without that cord he wouldnt be able to live . so is he really able to live on his own or is he depending on something else to live ? ? i really dont see your point .""",DISAGREE,"""It 's not like a woman 's body is a suitcase and the fetus is biologically self-reliant .""","""without that cord he wouldnt be able to live . so is he really able to live on his own""",,
34096,8945,"""Dembski 's `` explanatory filter `` is nonsense .""","""Well , you 've convinced me already .""",DISAGREE,"""Dembski 's `` explanatory filter `` is nonsense .""","""you 've convinced me already .""",,
34112,8948,"""A key doctrine in my own faith is that Jesus was born of a virgin , even though it makes no scientific sense - there is the matter of Jesus 's Y-chromosome to account for . But that is the point . Miracles , by definition , do not have to make scientific sense . They are specific acts of God , designed in most cases to get a message across . Their very rarity is what makes them remarkable . An atheist , of course , will argue that miracles are bogus and are stitched together from the needs and desires of human imagination . Maybe so . To a believer , miracles are more than `` violations of the laws of nature , `` as they were described by David Hume . They reflect a greater reality , a spiritual reality , and they occur in a context that makes religious , not scientific , sense . To the nonbeliever , there is no spiritual reality , and hence there are no miracles . To a person of faith , miracles display the greater purposes of God , giving them a meaning that transcends physical reality . If this is true , why should n't we allow that the creation of our species was a miracle ? Or why not agree that the sudden explosion of life in the Cambrian era might have been a miracle ? Both might have been . In 1900 , we could easily have said that the sun 's fire was a miracle . Unable to explain the biological basis of immunity , we could have chalked that up to God , too . And for good measure we could have told our students that the interior heat of the earth might be the work of the devil . We are now far enough along in the development of science to appreciate that its track record suggests that ultimately it will find natural causes for natural phenomena .""","""But wait a minute ! Has n't science found that it 's scientifically impossible for Jesus to be born of a virgin - no Y-chromosome ? Why is he willing to forfeit science and accept the Bible in that regard , and forfeit the Bible in so many other respects ? Why is it okay for him to accept the virgin birth of Christ , and riducule anyone who believes in the creation of the first man , Adam ? If God could handle the Y-chromosome , could n't God also handle creating the first , fully formed man ? He calls Adam `` fictional `` on page 5 . It becomes more and more clear why atheists are comfortable with theistic evolution . If there was no Adam , there was no original sin , and no genealogy as described in the book of Genesis , only monkeys . Except for his amazing exception to science in the virgin birth of Jesus , he seems to allow evolutionistic pronouncements to have priority over Biblical statements . Then ALL the basics of Christianity , the nature of God and central New Testament teachings , including the way the sinner Adam ( one man ) and the Savior Jesus ( one man ) are linked together in Romans 5 , 16-18 , are trivialized just the way atheists love . No wonder they 're so comfortable with theistic evolution ! On the bottom of page 235 , Miller 's comment about `` just about any preacher I have had the patience to listen too ..... `` speaks volumes - his cluelessness about original sin and many other things about Christianity shows he has n't had patience to listen to too many . But patience does n't seem to be a factor when it comes to his enthusiasm for Darwin 's works . He finishes the book with `` What kind of God do I believe in ? The answer is in these words . I believe in Darwin 's God. `` Sorry folks . It 's going to take more than a herd of angry atheists to convince me that he 's anything but a phony . I hope this thread gets some civilized responses .""",DISAGREE,"""A key doctrine in my own faith is that Jesus was born of a virgin""","""Has n't science found that it 's scientifically impossible for Jesus to be born of a virgin""",,
34139,8954,"""He probably means `` heathens. `` You know those non-fundamentalists , they all look alike !""","""I think he does n't really know what he means , I do n't think all heathens follow a particular set of beliefs , though I do n't know as many as I do pagans .""",AGREE,"""You know those non-fundamentalists , they all look alike !""","""I do n't think all heathens follow a particular set of beliefs , though I do n't know as many as I do pagans .""",,
34171,8959,"""All the knowledge from Science has come from trusting mutual experience . It has gotten us far and will continue to ( as long as we do n't destroy ourselves in misusing that knowledge ) .""","""But the belief that 'its gotten us far ' is itself a 'scientific ' type belief , in fact it has less proof on the empirical assumptions than the science itself . Justifying the validity of experience by experience is the intellectual equivalent of saying 'God must exist , because God is good and would not allow a world without God ' .""",DISAGREE,"""All the knowledge from Science has come from trusting mutual experience .""","""But the belief that 'its gotten us far ' is itself a 'scientific ' type belief , Justifying the validity of experience by experience is the intellectual equivalent of saying 'God must exist""",,
34213,8967,"""Job 32:8 But it is a spirit in man giving them perception , even the breath of the Almighty . 9 It is not the great that are wise , nor the aged who perceive justice ...""","""Good words to live by , despite all else . We seem to forget who needs to do the talking sometimes . I would like to add also that it is the Sword of the Spirit that we must be prepared to use at all times ...... and it does n't depend on any factors , for any reason .""",DISAGREE,"""But it is a spirit in man giving them perception , even the breath of the Almighty .""","""I would like to add also that it is the Sword of the Spirit that we must be prepared to use at all times""",,
34225,8971,"""They itch .""","""How do you know this and why would this be a detriment to the species ?""",DISAGREE,"""They itch .""","""How do you know this""",,
34233,8974,"""We are setting up permanent bases in Iraq to steal their oil Bush is going to disband Congress and declare himself emperor Bush is going to nuke Iran and North Korea Bush is going to turn America into a theocracy Blah Blah Blah""","""I ca n't tell . Are you a Bush supporter or not ? ( Just kidding ... )""",DISAGREE,"""Bush is going to disband Congress and declare himself emperor""","""Are you a Bush supporter or not ? ( Just kidding ... )""",,
34236,8975,"""Creationists define true Christians to be only those who agree with them . Consequently these clergy are not Christians so their opinions can be discarded .""","""There are n't many christians then .""",DISAGREE,"""Consequently these clergy are not Christians so their opinions can be discarded .""","""There are n't many christians then .""",,
34251,8978,"""Wow , a story about a sea monster . How ........ original ......... Wow , so Balrogs existed according to the Bible ? Whoda thunk . As above How about this explanation - you 're reading WAAAAAY too much into your precious Bible .""","""What is incredible is that this is probably the most enlightened response I can expect from this crowd .""",DISAGREE,"""so Balrogs existed according to the Bible ? you 're reading WAAAAAY too much into your precious Bible .""","""What is incredible is that this is probably the most enlightened response I can expect from this crowd .""",,
34264,8980,"""Is asking two people really a poll ? Waxy""","""Just how many graduates of the ICR Graduate School in geology and working in the oil industry do you think there are ?""",DISAGREE,"""Is asking two people really a poll ?""","""Just how many graduates of the ICR Graduate School in geology and working in the oil industry do you think there are ?""",,
34280,8984,"""If IC is a concept then it can be defeated by a concept .""","""So the only purpose of the concept of scaffolding is to defeat IC ?""",DISAGREE,"""If IC is a concept then it can be defeated by a concept .""","""So the only purpose of the concept of scaffolding is to defeat IC ?""",,
34302,8990,"""That Department of Justice study does n't support your opinion since it does n't examine crime statistics after the UK gun ban . Sounds like the UK crime rate has been going down to me . Alfaholic is jumping to conclusions .""","""I guess you failed to look at these two . http : //reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml http : //www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59866,00.html Here 's a little question .... If you were a criminal .... would you rather rob from a house where you knew the owner did n't have a gun or would you rob someone you knew had a gun ?""",DISAGREE,"""That Department of Justice study does n't support your opinion since it does n't examine crime statistics""","""I guess you failed to look at these two .""",,
34310,8993,"""Oh , wait , I forgot , you do n't believe that an entirely unique human being with it 's own unique DNA qualifies as a person .""","""But if one can be a person without having unique DNA , then your qualification is at best incomplete . As it stands , it follows from your claim that monozygotic multiple births are not people . See my further deconstruction of your arguments in your own `` Kill ! Kill ! Kill ! `` thread .""",DISAGREE,"""Oh , wait , I forgot , you do n't believe that an entirely unique human being with it 's own unique DNA qualifies as a person .""","""But if one can be a person without having unique DNA , then your qualification is at best incomplete . ``""",,
34329,8997,"""EDIT : with regards to specifically Nazism - the Nazis passed two relevant laws in 1938 . One loosened gun control on the general populace , the other banned Jews from weapon ownership .""","""And the Jews were the ones who got killed off in large numbers .""",AGREE,"""One loosened gun control on the general populace , the other banned Jews from weapon ownership .""","""the Jews were the ones who got killed off in large numbers .""",,
34335,8998,"""Pregnancy is ALWAYS physically harmful . You try carrying a load of extra weight about and see what that does to your heart . It is also always life threatening - women still die from it and you never know how childbirth is going to go . These are the normal , frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy : -- exhaustion ( weariness common from first weeks ) -- altered appetite and senses of taste and smell -- nausea and vomiting ( 50 % of women , first trimester ) -- heartburn and indigestion -- constipation -- weight gain -- dizziness and light-headedness -- bloating , swelling , fluid retention -- hemmorhoids -- abdominal cramps -- yeast infections -- congested , bloody nose -- acne and mild skin disorders -- skin discoloration ( chloasma , face and abdomen ) -- mild to severe backache and strain -- increased headaches -- difficulty sleeping , and discomfort while sleeping -- increased urination and incontinence -- bleeding gums -- pica -- breast pain and discharge -- swelling of joints , leg cramps , joint pain -- difficulty sitting , standing in later pregnancy -- inability to take regular medications -- shortness of breath -- higher blood pressure -- hair loss -- tendency to anemia -- curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities -- infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease ( pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women , and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases ) -- extreme pain on delivery -- hormonal mood changes , including normal post-partum depression -- continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period ( exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required , sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover ) These are the normal , expectable , or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy : -- stretch marks ( worse in younger women ) -- loose skin -- permanent weight gain or redistribution -- abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness -- pelvic floor disorder ( occurring in as many as 35 % of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50 % of elderly former child-bearers , associated with urinary and rectal incontinence , discomfort and reduced quality of life ) -- changes to breasts -- varicose veins -- scarring from episiotomy or c-section -- other permanent aesthetic changes to the body ( all of these are downplayed by women , because the culture values youth and beauty ) -- increased proclivity for hemmorhoids -- loss of dental and bone calcium ( cavities and osteoporosis )""","""Hmm . . . a lot of these could also be brought on by sitting in a chair for long periods of time trying to make sweeping online statements that pregnancy is always harmful and trying to back it up with either temporary issues , worst-case scenarios that rarely happen , or things for which it is debatable whether or not it is truly 'harmful . '""",DISAGREE,"""Pregnancy is ALWAYS physically harmful .""","""sweeping online statements that pregnancy is always harmful and trying to back it up with either temporary issues ,""",,
34340,8999,"""You were rather ambiguous on that point earlier . Just out of curiosity , what do you mean by  “ we ?  ”""","""If you had a look at all of the other threads on this topic you would see that .""",DISAGREE,"""You were rather ambiguous on that point earlier . Just out of curiosity , what do you mean by  we ? Â""","""If you had a look at all of the other threads on this topic you would see that .""",,
34337,8999,"""You were rather ambiguous on that point earlier . Just out of curiosity , what do you mean by  “ we ?  ”""","""If you had a look at all of the other threads on this topic you would see that .""",DISAGREE,"""You were rather ambiguous Just out of curiosity , what do you mean""","""had a look at all of the other threads""",,
34357,9002,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""I think you are probably right .""",AGREE,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""I think you are probably right .""",,
34358,9002,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""I think you are probably right .""",AGREE,"""best way to create jobs has always been to go to war .""","""I think you are probably right""",,
34379,9007,"""This argument ... bascially suggests ... an orignial adam and eve ... and simply places the time ... as much farther back ... much farther .""","""Well ... yes .. it does ... and it makes adam ... and eve ... rather ... hairy ...""",AGREE,"""This argument ... bascially suggests ... an orignial adam and eve ... and simply places the time ... as much farther back ... much farther .""","""Well ... yes .. it does""",,
34408,9016,"""( It rather looks like ...""","""so you finding it difficult to accept `` harsh reality `` , you make it `` look like `` ... because you like that better . Sorry , it does n't work that way .""",DISAGREE,"""( It rather looks like ...""","""so you finding it difficult to accept `` harsh reality `` , you make it `` look like `` ... it does n't work that way .""",,
34440,9027,"""I can give you two reasons why pro-life groups do n't do things that you suggest in your post . 1 . Because they may have children of their own they 're providing for since they are pro-life , 2 . Because of this . PRO-LIFER `` It is now our job to nurture and take care of those children who wo n't have a good future because of their parents or resources . DESPERATE MAN `` Honey ! Let 's go ahead and dump all our kids on these people because they want to raise our children so we wo n't have to ! Let 's tell the whole neighboorhood or even the whole city ! Mr. Pro-lifer is going to care for them all now !""","""But you do n't have any problem with forcing women to go through pregnancies that they do not want -- forcing them to give birth to children they are unable to care for . Nice .""",DISAGREE,"""PRO-LIFER to raise our children""","""forcing to care""",,
34458,9029,"""Now I know we did n't expect Daley to just roll over and take his losses like a real man . But to suggest that people be allowed to own only one single handgun is quite a step even for him . Even DC did n't try that one .""","""Well it 's a step in the right direction , and if you have 2 or 3 people per household , it would make him squirm good.lol .""",AGREE,"""Now I know we did n't expect Daley to just roll over and take his losses like a real man .""","""it would make him squirm""",,
34467,9030,"""As I said , this is just my personal opinion . Free will is n't discussed in the Bible - so really all we can do is form our own opinions based on what we do know about God and his attributes .""","""the Biblical support for free will is the assumption that God is not willing that any man should perish , but that all should come to repentance . If God chooses everybody 's decisions for them ( or forces them to choose only the options He approves of ) then the trillions of people that are bound for Hell were forced to go there by God himself . in fact , God must have wanted them to go there from the beginning of time . this is obviously contrary to the nature of God according to the Bible , as far as I know""",DISAGREE,"""discussed in the Bible - so really all we can do is form our own opinions based on what we do know about God and his attributes .""","""God , decisions""",,
34478,9032,"""EDIT : Removed as redundant .""","""But I would have been interested in hearing how you explained the above points . My post was a quick hack job , looked up in a few books that I have along with stuff that I remember from my reading . I may have made an error and would be interested in hearing about it . Maybe I can defend my point of view , maybe I ca n't . If you put time and effort into a response , why delete it . Redundant posts happen . ss/ww wo n't pay attention anyway and maybe he would respond to you . He runs from me because he always seems to make himself look like a fool and he realizes it .""",DISAGREE,"""Removed as redundant .""","""He runs from me because he always seems to make himself look like a fool and he realizes it .""",,
34480,9033,"""And the problem is , if one of these assumption is proven incorrect , then the whole theory collapses .""","""And one of these assumption has not been proven incorrect .""",DISAGREE,"""if one of these assumption is proven incorrect , then the whole theory collapses .""","""And one of these assumption has not been proven incorrect .""",,
34484,9034,"""The enumeration in the Constitution , of certain rights , shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people . Rights Retained by the People Aside from contending that a bill of rights was unnecessary , the Federalists responded to those opposing ratification of the Constitution because of the lack of a declaration of fundamental rights by arguing that inasmuch as it would be impossible to list all rights it would be dangerous to list some because there would be those who would seize on the absence of the omitted rights to assert that government was unrestrained as to those . 1 Madison adverted to this argument in presenting his proposed amendments to the House of Representatives . '' It has been objected also against a bill of rights , that , by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power , it would disparage those rights which were not placed in that enumeration ; and it might follow by implication , that those rights which were not singled out , were intended to be assigned into the hands of the General Government , and were consequently insecure . This is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard against the admission of a bill of rights into this system ; but , I conceive , that it may be guarded against . I have attempted it , as gentlemen may see by turning to the last clause of the fourth resolution . '' 2 It is clear from its text and from Madison 's statement that the Amendment states but a rule of construction , making clear that a Bill of Rights might not by implication be taken to increase the powers of the national government in areas not enumerated , and that it does not contain within itself any guarantee of a right or a proscription of an infringement . 3 Recently , however , the Amendment has been construed to be positive affirmation of the existence of rights which are not enumerated but which are nonetheless protected by other provisions .""","""The purpose of the Bill of Rights . Preamble to the Bill of Rights""",AGREE,"""enumeration in the Constitution , of certain rights""","""purpose of the Bill of Rights .""",,
34490,9035,"""Sure . Bring on the free machineguns to every male of military service and the paper tape . BTW are YOU going to clean your machinegun ? You are going to have to own a machinegun in your home you know . Your going to be forced to keep your machinegun clean . Your going to be forced to learn to place head shots at 300 yards . Your going to be forced to keep ammo sealed by paper tape . Sure I do all that right now . I 'd be happy to do that with a free machinegun and free ammo . Is that what YOU want ? The government handing out free machineguns ? Just checking if you want that . I want it . Give me a free machinegun . Give my friends who shoot at the range and shoot rifle matches , give them all free machineguns and free ammo . Bring it on .""","""Count me in for a couple of MP5s . I 'd even take American made M4s if they 're running short on the HKs . I 'll keep the paper sealed ammo tins intact and buy my own ammo . Quality 9mm has gotten so inexpensive I ca n't afford to reload it . 5.56 has always been that way . I like that idea .""",AGREE,"""free machineguns and free ammo . Bring it on""","""Count me in""",,
34498,9037,"""gay marriage : is n't one of the main points of being gay , besides the ' i was born this way'-ism kind of a way to tell convention to go shove it ?""","""Well , the simple answer to this question is `` No it is not. `` Telling convention to shove it is not one of the main points of being gay , not in any way shape or form . Being gay is simply about the people one is attracted to , the people one loves , and the person one wants to spend his or her life with . Now this does not mean that these people do not tell convention to go shove it , but they do so only when they believe convention is unfair , unjust , unequal , and a detriment to happiness . On the issue of gay rights , most ( but maybe not all ) gay people believe that the specific convention of denying some rights to gay people is a bad one , so they stand against it . They do not simply hate convention because it is convention ; good convention is worth retaining .""",DISAGREE,"""n't one of the main points of being gay , besides the ' i was born this way'-ism kind of a way to tell convention to go shove it ?""","""the simple answer to this question is `` No it is not. `` Telling convention to shove it is not one of the main points of being gay""",,
34504,9039,"""Actually , no , that is not what I said . I said : What you quoted is what Answers in Genesis said . Please do not be dishonest and tell others that I said this as I did not .""","""OK , you did n't say it . My mistake . But am I wrong in assuming that you agree with their arguments by virtue of having posted quotes by them without rebutting what they have stated ?""",DISAGREE,"""What you quoted is what Answers in Genesis said .""","""But am I wrong in assuming that you agree with their arguments by virtue of having posted quotes by them without rebutting what they have stated ?""",,
34510,9040,"""It can be the result of the same questionings that scientists have but just on a different plane . Faith and reason are not always perpendicular but they are often times parallel . Because one holds a certain dogma dealing with a particular subject does not mean he is closed minded on every other subject .""","""Well , that may be true . But the U.S. is blessed with an unusual number of people in which this is not true . One particular brand of christianity that is mostly limited to the U.S. actually rejects science based on mythology . Their religious dogma closes their mind to the reality around them .""",DISAGREE,"""Because one holds a certain dogma dealing with a particular subject does not mean he is closed minded on every other subject .""","""One particular brand of christianity that is mostly limited to the U.S. actually rejects science based on mythology .""",,
34512,9041,"""First , this issue was n't raised in the Heller ruling , so it 's a moot point on just what gun laws are constitutional .""","""I think some of the courts that have quoted that sentence from Heller to justify laws that ban felons from owning firearms would disagree .""",DISAGREE,"""First , this issue was n't raised in the Heller ruling , so it 's a moot point on just what gun laws are constitutional .""","""I think some of the courts that have quoted that sentence from Heller to justify laws that ban felons from owning firearms would disagree .""",,
34517,9042,"""The `` evidence for the answer `` is the original evidence ! As you say , the observation was designs in plants and animals . How do you get design ? The only valid hypothesis was `` plants and animals were manufactured `` . IOW , there was a Designer . Now , the attributes of that Designer were such that the only possible entity that could fulfill them was deity . Deity was the only entity with the power and knowledge necessary to manufacture plants and animals .""","""So you 're just ignoring the counters I provided above ? Do you think they are irrational ? How are they any more irrational than basing an argument on the premise that `` something is designed `` when you have no basis for concluding that something is designed ?""",DISAGREE,"""The `` evidence for the answer `` is the original evidence ! As you say , the observation was designs in plants and animals""","""How are they any more irrational than basing an argument on the premise that `` something is designed `` when you have no basis for concluding that something is designed ?""",,
34539,9050,"""That is why kids freak . There not stupid , their being told right from wrong in the old fashiioned sense most likely . What would be worse , to tell them right from wrong and omit parts out for sake of political correctness or allow them the full knowledge of what is acceptable and what is not ?""","""But how is homosexuality wrong ?""",DISAGREE,"""What would be worse , to tell them right from wrong and omit parts out for sake of political correctness or allow them the full knowledge of what is acceptable and what is not ?""","""But how is homosexuality wrong ?""",,
34540,9051,"""Look at the fossil record . They say each level of earth represents millions of years .... and these millions of years were necessary because it took animals that long to change via RM + NS -- and indeed it might . But heck , if variation is non-random , then it nullifies gradualism -- which nullifies the whole time-frame allocated for change in the geologic column . Then what ?""","""Well , there 's also carbon dating ... Did n't you post something about a decay curve ? Are you now going to deny the accuracy of that ?""",DISAGREE,"""Look at the fossil record . They say each level of earth represents millions of years""","""Well , there 's also carbon dating""",,
34550,9054,"""The sun is shrinking . If one does the math backwards on it , the Earth can not be as old as evolutionists claim it to be , can it ? It would burn up .""","""The sun is n't shrinking .""",DISAGREE,"""The sun is shrinking""","""The sun is n't shrinking""",,
34551,9055,"""So strange ! I am an Atheist , yet I must defer to the 25th Chapter of Matthew in the New Testament , verses 35-36 , the reference of Christianity : Interesting that Jesus does not say , `` This do , only after you have determined whether or not I am an illegal , or whether or not the reason why I am homeless is a reason that satisfied you . I am sorry that someone near to you was attacked . I do not believe that the attack occurred simply because the attacker was illegal . As a matter of fact , all such attacks are illegal , unlawful , whether perpetrated by an `` illegal `` or anyone else . I hope that the attacker was brought to justice and punished .""","""Did Jesus mention the workshy and lazy ? No matter how much I look I can not find Christ 's view of the benefits system""",DISAGREE,"""I am an Atheist ,""","""Did Jesus mention the workshy and lazy ? I can not find Christ 's view of the benefits system""",,
34581,9063,"""Japan continues not to support birth control because of spurious claims made re : the complications that it can cause women - later birth defects etc .""","""They still have a lower rate of unwanted preganacies than the USA .""",DISAGREE,"""not to support birth control complications that it can cause women - later birth defects""","""They still have a lower rate of unwanted preganacies than the USA .""",,
34598,9068,"""Why do n't you write Dr. Olsen and ask him if this is true ?""","""`` True `` is not a good use of language to describe opinion . With regard to his opinion , I think he makes some good points , so I do n't really need to ask him if its true . You on the other hand do need to speak to Olsen as you are claiming his letter rubbishes the concept of evolution- an opinion I hazard he would very much disagree with .""",DISAGREE,"""Why do n't you write Dr. Olsen and ask him if this is true ?""","""True `` is not a good use of language to describe opinion""",,
34604,9070,"""The way to do it is to pass stricter gun-control laws .""","""And what 're you going to do when a criminal says `` F * * k you and your gun control , it 's not gon na keep me from getting a gun if I want one `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""pass stricter gun-control laws .""","""criminal says it 's not gon na keep me from getting a gun if I want one ``""",,
34609,9072,"""Burglary victims attacked in their own home once every 30 minutes The householder is getting awfully darn tired of it too , and ask if the burglar could pick on someone else for a change . Alright , so maybe this isn ’ t really funny . Burglary victims attacked in their own home once every 30 minutes Defenseless British citizens are attacked in their own homes by violent burglars every 30 Minutes Gun control is NOT Crime Control ! It only makes for peaceful compliant victims of these violent predators !""","""Well it sure sounds like a good place to have a security business .""",DISAGREE,"""Gun control only makes for peaceful compliant victims of these violent predators !""","""sure sounds like a good place to have a security business .""",,
34617,9074,"""Fine by me . First , I do n't consider having a marriage recognized by government to be a `` right `` . Second , I 've said many times I do n't think government should be in the marriage business at all . I 'm a fan of less gov't not more .""","""Yes an I am sure you love unbridled capitalism , cruel self centred people do . Capitalism is a cruel system that kills people , lets them starve , makes them homeless , and exploits the poor for the gain of a few .""",DISAGREE,"""First , I do n't consider having a marriage recognized by government to be a `` right `` . Second , I 've said many times""","""Capitalism is a cruel system that kills people , lets them starve , makes them homeless""",,
34629,9076,"""< giggle > .""","""And being an evil old darwinist I should add < smirk > .""",AGREE,""".""","""And being an evil old darwinist I should add""",,
34638,9078,"""And perhaps Montalban did n't notice that Dembski 's definition of specification is a tautology .""","""You mean like Darwin 's 'survival of the fittest ' tautology ?""",AGREE,"""And perhaps Montalban did n't notice that Dembski 's definition of specification is a tautology""","""You mean like Darwin 's 'survival of the fittest ' tautology ?""",,
34640,9079,"""she 's writing an editorial here""","""Just being persnickety here ... she wrote an opinion piece""",DISAGREE,"""she 's writing an editorial here""","""Just being persnickety here ... she wrote an opinion piece""",,
34665,9084,"""That the thinking of some men is flawed does not mean the constructs of others is in error .""","""Your right , logic does not change because mans thinking is flawed that because logic is not a human construct . If is was , logic would change at the whem of our thinking .""",AGREE,"""the thinking of some men is flawed does not mean the constructs of others is in error .""","""logic does not change because mans thinking is flawed that because logic is not a human construct .""",,
34680,9087,"""How is this any different from retail professionals demanding the government enforce single payer retail ? And should it be surprising that members of any industry would want the government to directly finance it ? Hell America already has single payer automobile construction , why stop there ? What form and style should the fascist state take , is that the question ? More and more America resembles a pit of rats , slowly filling with water , all trying to escape by climbing on top of one another . Doctor Rats should be allowed to the top of the rat-pile for the moment right , until the teachers , garbage rats , police or fire rats want their shot at glory . The only ones we do n't need to worry about are the ones capable of fixing the leak , they 're already dead .""","""Even Joe the plumber abandoned the garbage scow ? Say it aint so !""",AGREE,"""Doctor Rats should be allowed to the top of the rat-pile for the moment right , until the teachers , garbage rats , police or fire rats want their shot at glory .""","""Even Joe the plumber abandoned the garbage scow ? Say it aint so !""",,
34684,9088,"""NOTE : When I say beneficial mutations , I am not talking about a gain of new genetic information to the genome .""","""I see . Then you are attempting to define evolution out of existance . By your definition ( not that of evolutionary biologists ) evolution requires an increase in information . An unsupported creationist argument . Define information in a meaningful way . Please apply your definition to genetics and show why all genetic changes are a decrease in information .""",DISAGREE,"""When I say beneficial mutations , I am not talking about a gain of new genetic information to the genome .""","""I see . Then you are attempting to define evolution out of existance . By your definition ( not that of evolutionary biologists ) evolution requires an increase in information .""",,
34686,9089,"""Just like individuals age over time , so does our species . We are not evolving , but devolving . Our world is rolling downhill like a giant bolder rolling down a mountainside .""","""Standard 2LOT argument ? Find some evidence that is n't just hypotheses .""",DISAGREE,"""like individuals age over time , so does our species . We are not evolving , but devolving""","""Find some evidence that is n't just hypotheses""",,
34716,9095,"""Well it all depends on who is going to determine `` right `` , is n't it ? Abortion is not math . There are no finite answers . Just a myriad of opinions which inevitable lead to either abortion is right or abortion is wrong . No different now then when Roe v Wade became law or any other times in history . I do like Aristotle 's take ; He taught that a fetus originally had a vegetable soul but he did n't say what kind of vegetable .""","""I do not understand why people are stuck in this mindset that we have to define ALL abortions as either right or wrong . In between , there is the option of calling abortion under certain circumstances as right or wrong or calling abortion in certain trimesters as right or wrong . Why limit yourself to the extreme views ? I do not believe that the original post asked for an absolute answer , just a survey of opinions . After all , as you say , abortion is not math and there is no one answer that everyone might agree with . However , the question of people 's opinions on the beginning of personhood and how it relates to the morality of abortion lies at the very core of the debate on abortion rights . Really ... what other question is more relevant ?""",DISAGREE,"""it all depends Abortion is not math Roe v Wade became law""","""stuck in this mindset there is the option of calling abortion""",,
34729,9097,"""In truth , we could put everything we absolutly know about evolution ( have physical proof for ) in a box , and it would be a small one .""","""Actually , we have museums full of evidence . Only a fool talks about scientific proof . On the other hand , we would n't need any box for the evidence of creation or ID that you think is OK to teach as science . It does n't exist .""",DISAGREE,"""we could put everything we absolutly know about evolution ( have physical proof for ) in a box , and it would be a small one .""","""museums full of evidence Only a fool talks about scientific proof .""",,
34754,9099,"""C.S . Lewis also pointed out that even our ability to reason would be called into question if atheistic evolution were true ( God in the Dock ( Grand Rapids , MI : Eerdmans , 1970 ) pp . 52-53 ) :""","""That 's enough appeals to authority for one post .""",DISAGREE,"""our ability to reason would be called into question if atheistic evolution were true""","""That 's enough appeals to authority for one post""",,
34758,9100,"""Sorry , but intelligent and dynamic lifeforms do not refute naturalistic theories of evolution . IDism is a dead duck . Indeed , it was neither intelligent nor dynamic .""","""ToE is a mechanistic theory -- it says life is like a machine . Machines are n't intelligent , they just do what they 're made/programmed to do . Darwinists say lifeforms do what they do because of the way their particular genes program them . This is basic stuff ..... yet you come along and say this is n't so . So which is it ? Is life intelligent or not ? If it is intelligent , what is illogical about believing life was designed intelligently by an intelligent designer ? The intelligence had to come from somewhere . Where did the information in the DNA code come from ?""",AGREE,"""intelligent and dynamic lifeforms do not refute naturalistic theories of evolution .""","""ToE is a mechanistic theory -- it says life is like a machine . Machines are n't intelligent , they just do what they 're made/programmed to do .""",,
34763,9100,"""Sorry , but intelligent and dynamic lifeforms do not refute naturalistic theories of evolution . IDism is a dead duck . Indeed , it was neither intelligent nor dynamic .""","""ToE is a mechanistic theory -- it says life is like a machine . Machines are n't intelligent , they just do what they 're made/programmed to do . Darwinists say lifeforms do what they do because of the way their particular genes program them . This is basic stuff ..... yet you come along and say this is n't so . So which is it ? Is life intelligent or not ? If it is intelligent , what is illogical about believing life was designed intelligently by an intelligent designer ? The intelligence had to come from somewhere . Where did the information in the DNA code come from ?""",AGREE,"""IDism is a dead duck it was neither intelligent nor dynamic .""","""what is illogical about believing life was designed intelligently by an intelligent designer ? The intelligence had to come from somewhere . Where did the information in the DNA code come from ?""",,
34766,9101,"""In the past 85 years , dating has drastically improved . You 're falsely saying that scientists have readjusted the date because it suits their timeline , rather then noticing that dating has improved and new techniques have been used on virtually every piece we have today . Learn to use Oczzam 's razor .""","""They rarely date fossils anymore ... instead they look at the strata of earth the bones were found in .""",DISAGREE,"""In the past 85 years , dating has drastically improved .""","""They rarely date fossils anymore .""",,
34774,9103,"""Obviously not about abortion .""","""So , none of those women who slept with men were pregnant at the time ?""",DISAGREE,"""Obviously not about abortion .""","""none of those women who slept with men were pregnant at the time ?""",,
34777,9104,"""Police officer deaths fell sharply in 2008 -- number has n't been that low since 1999""","""But I thought it was an epidemic , more cops killed than civilians ?""",DISAGREE,"""Police officer deaths fell sharply in 2008""","""But I thought it was an epidemic""",,
34776,9104,"""Police officer deaths fell sharply in 2008 -- number has n't been that low since 1999""","""But I thought it was an epidemic , more cops killed than civilians ?""",DISAGREE,"""Police officer deaths fell sharply in 2008 -- number has n't been that low since 1999""","""But I thought it was an epidemic , more cops killed than civilians ?""",,
34783,9105,"""if you said `` The fact that you and I can not understand this does n't make it impossible. `` then no god is possible in your eyes ... hey , there are many things we don ; t understand . you can take it either way .""","""Well , first , I did say `` The fact that you and I can not understand this does n't make it impossible. `` Secondly , how is no god possible ? Third , a person being 100 % something and 100 % something else is n't entirely impossible . There are people all over the world who change from 100 % idiotic to 100 % non-idiotic all the time . Lastly , there are many things we do n't understand ... so what 's your point in restating what I said ?""",DISAGREE,"""hey , there are many things we don ; t understand . you can take it either way .""","""Lastly , there are many things we do n't understand ... so what 's your point in restating what I said ?""",,
34791,9107,"""you believe God and ALL of what He says or you dont believe in any of it at all ..""","""But first , you have to believe ( on faith - no evidence ) that you know what god said . And then you have to interpret that so that it is acceptable to you . Most people who use your same `` word of god `` believe all of it but understand what it says differently .""",DISAGREE,"""you believe God and ALL of what He says or you dont believe in any of it at all ..""","""you have to believe interpret that so that it is acceptable to you""",,
34802,9111,"""Is lucifer the Devil ?""","""Yes & # 8211 ; same , same .""",AGREE,"""Is lucifer the Devil ?""","""Yes same , same .""",,
34804,9112,"""god ( P ) Pronunciation Key ( gd ) n. 1 . God""","""Kinda ironic , do n't you think ?""",DISAGREE,"""( P ) Pronunciation Key ( gd ) n. 1 . God""","""Kinda ironic , do n't you think ?""",,
34806,9112,"""god ( P ) Pronunciation Key ( gd ) n. 1 . God""","""Kinda ironic , do n't you think ?""",DISAGREE,"""god ( P ) Pronunciation Key ( gd ) n. 1 . God""","""Kinda ironic , do n't you think ?""",,
34813,9115,"""Maybe it 's because the evidence that indicates a use for the appendix , rather than it being an incompletely useless vestige , is itself further evidence of evolution and common descent .""","""Bingo . Relationships between appendices of closely related species still suggest that the appendix used to have a different function , namely digestion of roughage . Linky . ( Plus what Otto said , again . )""",AGREE,"""the evidence that indicates a use for the appendix , rather than it being an incompletely useless vestige , is itself further evidence of evolution and common descent .""","""Bingo .""",,
34818,9116,"""If God is a forgiving one , why is there the Devil ?""","""Because Satan is a fallen angel . He had a chance to be with God , but he did n't take it . He could go back to God any time he wanted to , but he does n't want to . He has free will . God wo n't take that away , even though He can .""",DISAGREE,"""If God is a forgiving one , why is there the Devil ?""","""Because Satan is a fallen angel . He had a chance to be with God , but he did n't take it .""",,
34834,9120,"""... but widely accepted as an indication of a true oath .""","""But totally unrequired and unnecessary . Whether it is a witness at a trial or a deposition , member of a jury or a grand jury , use of the Bible and even the words , `` ... so help me God. `` are not required . Any person may refuse the Bible and the words and instead opt to make an affirmation . All that is necessary is to inform the judge that you prefer to do so . Everyone else may take the oath and then anyone who desires makes an affirmation . In the affirmation there is no `` swearing , `` merely a promise . The affirmation carries the same expectations and penalties as the oath . A friend did so in a court once . He did n't know what kind of reaction from the attorneys and judge to expect . He got no reaction whatsoever . The clerk just put down the Bible and administered the affirmation . This is from Article II , Section 1 of the Constitution , regarding the President :""",DISAGREE,"""but widely accepted as an indication of a true oath""","""But totally unrequired and unnecessary .""",,
34836,9120,"""... but widely accepted as an indication of a true oath .""","""But totally unrequired and unnecessary . Whether it is a witness at a trial or a deposition , member of a jury or a grand jury , use of the Bible and even the words , `` ... so help me God. `` are not required . Any person may refuse the Bible and the words and instead opt to make an affirmation . All that is necessary is to inform the judge that you prefer to do so . Everyone else may take the oath and then anyone who desires makes an affirmation . In the affirmation there is no `` swearing , `` merely a promise . The affirmation carries the same expectations and penalties as the oath . A friend did so in a court once . He did n't know what kind of reaction from the attorneys and judge to expect . He got no reaction whatsoever . The clerk just put down the Bible and administered the affirmation . This is from Article II , Section 1 of the Constitution , regarding the President :""",DISAGREE,"""indication of a true oath .""","""In the affirmation there is no `` swearing , `` merely a promise .""",,
34837,9121,"""4 . A child is a child regardless of the circumstances of their conception , and there are in fact people walking around today who are the products of the example you gave here .""","""But stress a child , it would be wrong to judge a child by the circumstances of its birth but as a developing embryo I do not think it can be treated the same way . Adoption may be preferable if possible but if someone is causing harm , albeit even unintentionally they are still responsible . The whole idea of manslaughter is based around this , without even going on to criminals being a product of their environment - they may have had apparently little choice in their crimes . This does not exempt them from punishment though - they serve to prevent future crimes or to stop the contining harm being caused .""",DISAGREE,"""A child is a child regardless of the circumstances of their conception""","""But stress a child , it would be wrong to judge a child by the circumstances .""",,
34846,9122,"""I perceive that you are a new poster here , which is bound to happen . This necessarily means that it is unlikely that you know my views , which is understandable . I am pro-life . You need not take my word for that ; you need only read some of my past postings , or ask anyone who has frequented the forums before . Though I am happy you realized my sarcastic tone , I ca n't pretend I 'm not disappointed given all my past discussions on this topic in which you have participated . I should have thought my pro life views were well established . Consider , for example , the following exchanges when I critiqued your view because it was not pro-life enough : 1 , 2 , 3 .""","""Hi Phyllis , excuse my confusion , The last thing I want to do is marginalize or antagonize an ally . One piece of advice though , in case you 're not aware of it ; at the top right corner of each post you want to quote is a permalink . If you copy that and past it to the post , the intended post will appear when clicked on . What you have done is posted complete threads which must be waded through to find the intended post . And depending on the thread and poster , determining that might be difficult or impossible . Just so you know for future reference .""",AGREE,"""I perceive that you are a new poster here , which is bound to happen""","""One piece of advice though , in case you 're not aware of it ; at the top right corner of each post you want to quote is a permalink .""",,
34853,9123,"""well if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""","""Hmmm .... your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical .""",AGREE,"""if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""","""your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical .""",,
34857,9123,"""well if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""","""Hmmm .... your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical .""",AGREE,"""well if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""","""your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical .""",,
34859,9123,"""well if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse .""","""Hmmm .... your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical .""",AGREE,"""if you think the sun goes around the earth then its time for apocalypse""","""your religious predecessors would have sentenced you to house arrest for something so heretical""",,
34874,9125,"""`` Since one pro-choice argument is wrong , all pro-choice arguments are wrong `` This is the formal structure of the ridiculous and false argument to suggest that abortion is murder .""","""No , its not . Thats a strawman . I have never stated anything of the sort . You just can not debate honestly . I never said that since one argument is wrong , that all are wrong . I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong independantly . Not that I have to . Now , any of you able to give even a hint of an intelligent answer to the OP ? Or does that shatter your delusion that you dont support murdering children ?""",DISAGREE,"""one pro-choice argument is wrong , all pro-choice arguments are wrong is the formal structure of the ridiculous and false argument that abortion is murder .""","""No , its not . never stated anything of the sort . I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong""",,
34879,9125,"""`` Since one pro-choice argument is wrong , all pro-choice arguments are wrong `` This is the formal structure of the ridiculous and false argument to suggest that abortion is murder .""","""No , its not . Thats a strawman . I have never stated anything of the sort . You just can not debate honestly . I never said that since one argument is wrong , that all are wrong . I am saying that I can prove all the arguments wrong independantly . Not that I have to . Now , any of you able to give even a hint of an intelligent answer to the OP ? Or does that shatter your delusion that you dont support murdering children ?""",DISAGREE,"""This is the formal structure of the ridiculous and false argument to suggest that abortion is murder .""","""No , its not .""",,
34889,9126,"""First of all , it 's not a precedent . this is the seventh or eighth state where a higher court has found anti-gay discrimination in marriage unconstitutional . Secondly , when so many rulings go in this direction , it can hardly be called `` lawlessness `` . It 's a call for lawful , constitutional interpretation of statutes . It takes extraordinary intellectual dishonesty to pretend there is some `` agenda `` at work . These decisions are the consequence of two things : our long history of rationally applying those silly words about equality that folks smarter than this generation of politicians put in the Constitution AND a long-term correction of the misunderstandings of what homosexuality IS and what its consequences are . I know you do n't personally believe it , but there is nothing wrong with us .""","""Hey , laws are just laws , they can be overturned by any activist judge . So what is there about marriage which is absolute ? If nothing , then anyone can marry anyone or anything , its just the whim of a judge which decides . That is where we are heading , and heading fast . These laws stop them for now . But even five years ago , no one would have believed that same-sex marriage could be legislated over the objections of the voters . The gay lobby argues that all love should be celebrated and marriage allowed , tradition notwithstanding . So , the next logical step is that a group of people are being discriminated against , or a human/pet couple is being discriminated against , and the rot spreads .""",DISAGREE,"""this is the seventh or eighth state where a higher court has found anti-gay discrimination in marriage unconstitutional .""","""So , the next logical step is that a group of people are being discriminated against , or a human/pet couple is being discriminated against""",,
34900,9127,"""It also means some where there is a universe that you created by passing gas and in it you are a creationist and an Elvis Impersonator .""","""And how does that mean evolution is wrong and creation is correct ? You do realize that even if you somehow manage to prove evolution false ( not likely ) , you are still miles from proving creation right ?""",DISAGREE,"""also means some where there is a universe that you created by passing gas and in it you are a creationist and an Elvis Impersonator .""","""how does that mean evolution is wrong and creation is correct ? You do realize that even if you somehow manage to prove evolution false ( not likely ) , you are still miles from proving creation right""",,
34910,9128,"""Creationism attempts to deny observable reality with the power of faith , while maintaining a logical façade . The only way to do this is to never follow any point through to it 's ultimate conclusion , as it will be shown as false . Instead , the best tactic is to attempt to bury opponents under an ever-shifting , ever-repeating argument in an attempt to persuade them that because you have so many arguments , you must be right - and because you never stay on-topic , none of your points are ever completely wiped of the map , so you can revisit them and force them to be debated from the start again . This is why the Index to Creationist Claims is so handy , because it allows most arguments to be wiped out from stage one . Hence my personal Creationist Challenge - if someone can come up with an argument for creationism that I can not answer with a single link to the Index , I will take that person seriously . But yes , the above could apply to anyone who is 'blatantly wrong ' ( to put it tactlessly ) .""","""You mean that you rely on the talking points as laid out by Talk Origins as your bible , as I rely on Gods word to guide my beliefs ? That fact goes without saying . But remember this ian , just because your side is capable of creating lies in order to refute reality , it does n't make anything you say true in any way , shape or form . But thanks for revealing that you do n't mind letting that site do your thinking for you .""",DISAGREE,"""Creationism attempts to deny observable reality with the power of faith , maintaining a logical best tactic is to attempt to bury opponents under an ever-shifting , ever-repeating argument""","""your side is capable of creating lies in order to refute reality it does n't make anything you say true in any way , shape or form""",,
34902,9128,"""Creationism attempts to deny observable reality with the power of faith , while maintaining a logical façade . The only way to do this is to never follow any point through to it 's ultimate conclusion , as it will be shown as false . Instead , the best tactic is to attempt to bury opponents under an ever-shifting , ever-repeating argument in an attempt to persuade them that because you have so many arguments , you must be right - and because you never stay on-topic , none of your points are ever completely wiped of the map , so you can revisit them and force them to be debated from the start again . This is why the Index to Creationist Claims is so handy , because it allows most arguments to be wiped out from stage one . Hence my personal Creationist Challenge - if someone can come up with an argument for creationism that I can not answer with a single link to the Index , I will take that person seriously . But yes , the above could apply to anyone who is 'blatantly wrong ' ( to put it tactlessly ) .""","""You mean that you rely on the talking points as laid out by Talk Origins as your bible , as I rely on Gods word to guide my beliefs ? That fact goes without saying . But remember this ian , just because your side is capable of creating lies in order to refute reality , it does n't make anything you say true in any way , shape or form . But thanks for revealing that you do n't mind letting that site do your thinking for you .""",DISAGREE,"""Creationism attempts to deny observable reality with the power of faith , while maintaining a logical façade""","""But thanks for revealing that you do n't mind letting that site do your thinking for you .""",,
34954,9147,"""Look you baboon , I do n't want nonsense I want answers . What makes those here in favor of gun control and gun bans believe that by outlawing guns they 'll make things better for everyone ?""","""Well that was a good start . Are you planning on insulting everyone who replies to your post ? Of course it would be more difficult for criminals to get hold of guns if there were fewer of them around . It would also make it more difficult for children to get hold of them , or feuding neighbours who , on the spur of the moment , think that waving a gun around might bring about a solution to their problems . If you do n't think you 're going to like the answers to your question , then do n't ask the question . Smiley""",DISAGREE,"""What makes those here in favor of gun control and gun bans believe that by outlawing guns they 'll make things better for everyone ?""","""Of course it would be more difficult for criminals to get hold of guns if there were fewer of them around .""",,
34960,9148,"""That is silly . I could claim that one day people will be able to spit to the moon and someday science will prove that true . It is as sillly as the infinite universes theory to explain the big bang senario . If it was true then somewhere there is a universe that has John Kerry as a right wing radical and George Bush is married to Hilary . Instead of a stupid sitcom about Mr. Ed the talking horse it has Mr. Wilbur the talking human . Not only is there a planet of the apes there is a planet of the roaches . Not only everything that can happen will happen it has happened-think about that for a minute .""","""Well , if some of the implications of quantum theory are correct ( and do n't quote me on this ) , then some of those things are actually possible . However , as any scientist worth his/her salt will tell you , just because something is possible does n't mean it 's definite . I do n't see any proof of those things happening any time soon , either , but they 're fun to think about , are n't they ?""",DISAGREE,"""Not only everything that can happen will happen""","""some of those things are actually possible because something is possible does n't mean it 's definite""",,
34974,9150,"""Recessive genes come into action is the primary gene is not present . But I think you will find that the peppered moths have come in two varieties before the industrial revolution .""","""Nope . And since the melanic form is the dominant allele , your point is moot .""",DISAGREE,"""Recessive genes come into action is the primary gene is not present . But I think you will find that the peppered moths have come in two varieties before the industrial revolution .""","""And since the melanic form is the dominant allele , your point is moot .""",,
34978,9151,"""Storrs Olson , curator of birds at the National Museum of Natural History said : `` The idea of feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of birds is being actively promulgated by a cadre of zealous scientists acting in concert with certain editors at Nature and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the faith . Truth and careful scientific weighing of evidence have been among the first casualties in their program , which is now fast becoming one of the grander scientific hoaxes of our age -- -the paleontological equivalent of cold fusion. ``""","""Typical YEC misrepresentation . Professor Olsen has no qualms with the concept of evolution- what he does not see is the link between birds and certain theropods . If you think he does not think evolution is correct I suggest you send him an email asking for his views . Here is his address : olsons @ si.edu Off course , you might be trying to infer that because their are differences of opinion in the field of evolution makes the whole notion irrelevant . I disagree , but if you insist we will examine differences in opinion between different groups within , lets see ......... how about Christianity ? Do they make the whole religion completely rejectable ?""",DISAGREE,"""National Museum of Natural History feathered dinosaurs and the theropod origin of and National Geographic who themselves have become outspoken and highly biased proselytizers of the . paleontological equivalent of cold""","""misrepresentation birds and certain theropods evolution ,""",,
34984,9152,"""That reminds me of the discussion I got into on a `` christian `` board when I referred to a particular pompous XXX as a pompous XXX . I was banned for a week for using profane language . Pointing out that an XXX is an animal and that my remark made sense only in that light was fruitless . My answer was to demand that they ban some versions of the Bible because they told of how Abraham tied his XXX to a tree and Jesus sat on his XXX in Jerusalem . Did n't phase them . They also ignored without comment references to Judge Roy Moore 's monumental erection in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building .""","""That is what supersport is hoping to do ... However , assuming that you are correct in your interpretation , he has no chance of doing it so well .""",AGREE,"""They also ignored without comment references to Judge Roy Moore 's monumental erection in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building .""","""assuming that you are correct in your interpretation""",,
35003,9156,"""Whose hands do they have ?""","""The civil rights violators claim they want to keep guns out of the wrong hands , when the truth of the matter is you and I `` have the wrong hands ``""",DISAGREE,"""Whose hands do they have ?""","""civil rights violators claim wrong hands ,""",,
35013,9158,"""Something like beak size will following a bell curve .""","""Probably true .""",AGREE,"""Something like beak size will following a bell curve .""","""Probably true .""",,
35022,9160,"""Perhaps an analogy . Lets say for the sake of the argument you do not smoke or drink ( personally against it , for whatever reason ) . However , you believe others should have the right to drink and smoke if they so choose . So , you are personally against drinking and smoking but you are `` pro-choice `` in that regard ( meaning you believe every person should make that determination for themselves ) . Pro-life would be : You do n't drink and smoke ( morally against it perhaps ) and you are going to make sure that no one else is able to either .""","""In your analogy I would say they are confusing too . I do n't smoke however it is not because I am against smoking it is because I do n't wan na do it eventhough I do n't think it is `` wrong `` . This is a far cry from saying you think something is wrong yet support others doing it if they want to .""",DISAGREE,"""However , you believe others should have the right to drink and smoke if they so choose .""","""In your analogy I would say they are confusing too .""",,
35034,9163,"""Columbus went against 99.9 % of all people that demonstrated the world was flat . Turns out 99.9 % of them were wrong .""","""And this ladies and gentleman is the problem : `` SheriG `` and other creationists swallow myths and lies and never question them , for they reject the search for knowledge in favour of the security of mythology . '' 99.9 % `` of learned people around Columbus ' time knew the world was a sphere and had done so for 2,000 years at least ! The idea that people thought the world flat at the time is a myth . Try : http : //nabataea.net/flatearth.html http : //www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm http : //www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html They are from a variety of sources , even including a creationist one at the end . Oh and no surprise that the very first line of that last site is a lie , as that is standard practice of creation websites . '' Evolutionists often falsely accuse creationists of believing in a flat Earth `` is untrue : we simply liken them to flat-Earthers because of the same assinine refusal to accept reality .""",DISAGREE,"""Columbus went against 99.9 % of all people that demonstrated the world was flat . Turns out 99.9 % of them were wrong .""","""Evolutionists often falsely accuse creationists of believing in a flat Earth""",,
35040,9171,"""How did such complexity explode upon the scene fully integrated into a living thing in that first split second of formation ? What random mechanism , what wild chance collision of atoms and molecules formed such a wondrous amazing blueprint ? Where is your evidence of that ? Where is your logic ? Your thousands of scientists working in labs around the world seeking to create life from scratch are wasting time and money .""","""I see patterns here . My girlfriend and I have been debating this subject a lot lately . When we first started debating , she did so in `` solid support of creationism `` ( yes Frog I did not write those words by accident ) . She said , and I quote , `` Evolution is bullsh * t `` . Last night , after two or three evenings of this stuff back and forth ( after I resoundingly bested her on every point , basically ) she affirmed that she does believe in evolution and has `` kind of `` always believed in evolution , but that she has many reservations and questions about it . The pattern ? '' Solid support of creationism turns into an admission that evolution is the truth , but with reservations. `` I find that pattern a little bit amusing . Last night , she had abandoned most of her philosophical objections because I made the concession that everyone has to make if they want to make any headway whatsoever with a budding evolutionist who ca n't let go of their religious objections : `` Okay , maybe it had God 's stamp of approval. `` When you say that , you can move on to a real conversation . In this case , she bombarded me with a million questions that I could n't answer . She seemed excited about it , not debating , but asking me about the wonders of biology with a long series of `` ... but what about this `` and `` ... what about that `` type of questions . One thing she keyed on was evolution as it applies to a larger ecosystem . I could n't quite grasp what she was asking because I do n't think she herself was very clear on the question , but to make a long story short , I got the distinct impression that she simply ca n't wholeheartedly accept evolution because she ca n't begin to fathom the complexity of the science behind it . I have told her time and time again : `` Just because you do n't understand something , that does n't make it wrong. `` I see this same pattern here in your words , Frog . You 're talking about wild collisions of atoms and saying that the foundations who donate hundreds of millions of dollars a year to research know less than you do , because they 're wasting their money . You 're making this subject so much bigger and more philosophical than it has to be , Frog . Is evolution by far the best answer we have to the question of the diversity of species ? The answer is yes , overwhelmingly so . Everything else is moot . It belongs elsewhere .""",DISAGREE,"""How did such complexity explode first split second of formation ? What random mechanism Where is your evidence of that ? Where is your logic ? wasting time and money""","""I see patterns here debating this subject `` `` Evolution is bullsh * t '' `` I find that pattern a little bit amusing who ca n't let go of their religious objections `` Just because you do n't understand something , that does n't make it they 're wasting their money Everything else is moot""",,
35049,9172,"""I believe in adoption of the worlds children before reproduction .""","""So if you fall in love with your soul mate , you would have no problem adopting or be opposed to someone making you adopt instead of having your own children ?""",DISAGREE,"""I believe in adoption of the worlds children before reproduction .""","""So if you fall in love with your soul mate , you would have no problem adopting or be opposed to someone making you adopt instead of having your own children ?""",,
35071,9174,"""'' HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & amp ; Record of Sales Act of 2009""","""H.R.45 - Blair Holt 's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009""",DISAGREE,"""HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009""","""H.R.45 - Blair Holt 's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009""",,
35090,9175,"""I read the essay . The only mention of a `` hair follicle `` came from you .""","""Actually no . You read the article again , and thoroughly this time .""",DISAGREE,"""only mention of a `` hair follicle came from you""","""read the article again , and thoroughly this time""",,
35100,9176,"""Why would this be any of your business ? Do I ask you about the medical care you 've received ?""","""I know , you 're right . However , if you do n't want to do as Shady1 and share your sincere experience , tell me what you think the post-abortion trauma means in the grander scheme of things . Does its widespread existence tell us something about abortion as a practise ?""",DISAGREE,"""Why would this be any of your business ? Do I ask you about the medical care you 've received ?""","""tell me what you think the post-abortion trauma means in the grander scheme of things . Does its widespread existence tell us something about abortion as a practise ?""",,
35124,9180,"""Now settle down charlie , and try to think rationally , just for a second . Have you ever heard of a tumor growing into a sentient life form as a fetus does ? I 'd appreciate a link documenting such an occurrence so we pro-lifers can start planning save the tumor rally 's .""","""Archangel is right on this one . It 's completely absurd to compare a tumour to a healthy fetus , which has a separate blood system , and in a relatively short space of time will be an independent person . It does no service to the pro-choice lobby to display the sort of attitude that says `` we do n't value human life `` . If you think abortion is an acceptable moral choice then you have to make a case either that the fetus is not human , is not an individual , is not alive , or is in some other way not worthy of respect . Or you have to make a case that ending it 's life is in some way justifiable in spite of these things . I am pro-choice , but only because I do n't believe you can legislate about an issue like this unless there is near unanimity . The suffering and anguish caused by banning abortion is substantial and should not be dismissed , but equally when abortion is legal it should not be seen as a substitute for contraception . How to achieve this is a difficult one , without causing psychological harm to women who feel they must make that choice .""",AGREE,"""Have you ever heard of a tumor growing into a sentient life form as a fetus does ?""","""Archangel is right on this one . It 's completely absurd to compare a tumour to a healthy fetus ``""",,
35128,9181,"""It was not recognized until 1984 .""","""More like the late 1940s . Look up A.C. Braun and Crown Gall . Granted he did not know the details be he did know that bacteria could transfer `` something `` { the TIP } which permantely transformed plant tissues . Later it turned out to be a bacterial plasmid .""",DISAGREE,"""It was not recognized until 1984 .""","""More like the late 1940s . ``""",,
35141,9183,"""Or do you think every word that you manage to type is somehow the definition of reality ?""","""Nothing I have stated is incorrect . If I did you would get specific .""",DISAGREE,"""every word that you manage to type is somehow the definition of reality ?""","""Nothing I have stated is incorrect .""",,
35152,9187,"""But the question is pretty irrelevant to science""","""Really ? Then why do they experiment on `` antigravity `` devices or the theoretical possibility of `` time-travel `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""the question is pretty irrelevant""","""Really ?""",,
35161,9191,"""So you really do believe that organisms `` are equipped with a means of making small errors that allow natural selection `` turn a reptile to a bird and a monkey into a man ?""","""The evidence shows that reptiles did give rise to birds , but nothing shows monkeys became humans . Monkeys are far to evolved in their own way to give rise to us .""",DISAGREE,"""turn a reptile to a bird and a monkey into a man ?""","""The evidence shows that reptiles did give rise to birds , but nothing shows monkeys became humans""",,
35160,9191,"""So you really do believe that organisms `` are equipped with a means of making small errors that allow natural selection `` turn a reptile to a bird and a monkey into a man ?""","""The evidence shows that reptiles did give rise to birds , but nothing shows monkeys became humans . Monkeys are far to evolved in their own way to give rise to us .""",DISAGREE,"""So you really do believe that organisms `` are equipped with a means of making small errors that allow natural selection""","""but nothing shows monkeys became humans""",,
35172,9194,"""Our pledge of allegiance is , & # 8220 ; I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands , & # 8230 ; for all. & # 8221 ;""","""Well see , `` democracy `` is not a form of government . So you ca n't pledge allegiance to something that 's not government ( a particular form of government ) .""",DISAGREE,"""Our pledge of allegiance is , I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America""","""Well see , `` democracy `` is not a form of government . So you ca n't pledge allegiance to something that 's not government""",,
35175,9195,"""To add to the obvious costs of pregnancy , there is also the loss of pay as I would not be able to work ( I 'm a geologist - this involves quite a bit of strenuous outdoors work ) , which would even further affect us .""","""If putting the child up for adoption , this can be covered too . However , you havingto take time out per doctors instructions is something you might not desire as it could affect career opprotunities in certain lines of work .""",AGREE,"""To add to the obvious costs of pregnancy , there is also the loss of pay as I would not be able to work""","""something you might not desire as it could affect career opprotunities in certain lines of work .""",,
35178,9196,"""Churches are not motivated to oppose evolution , the way evolution is motivated to oppose religion . Evolution doesn ’ t get in the way of churches to promote Christ ’ s teachings , to the extent that Christ ’ s teachings get in the way of evolutionists social desires .""","""Oh come on , marc , you ca n't possibly expect me to swallow that one . Religion , which locked up astronomers ? What atheist social policy was geocentrism getting in the way of , hmm ? What makes that farce science 's fault ?""",DISAGREE,"""Churches are not motivated to oppose evolution , the way evolution is motivated to oppose religion""","""Oh come on , marc , you ca n't possibly expect me to swallow that one""",,
35180,9196,"""Churches are not motivated to oppose evolution , the way evolution is motivated to oppose religion . Evolution doesn ’ t get in the way of churches to promote Christ ’ s teachings , to the extent that Christ ’ s teachings get in the way of evolutionists social desires .""","""Oh come on , marc , you ca n't possibly expect me to swallow that one . Religion , which locked up astronomers ? What atheist social policy was geocentrism getting in the way of , hmm ? What makes that farce science 's fault ?""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution doesn ’ t get in the way of churches to promote Christ ’ s teachings , to the extent that Christ ’ s teachings get in the way of evolutionists social desires .""","""What makes that farce science 's fault ?""",,
35193,9199,"""Interesting quote . It ca n't be acted out in many areas though . Murder for instance . Or speeding . Jaywalking either . Running stop signs . Beating children . No matter how happy these acts may make someone , they can be punished if they perform them , even if the state is wholly unconnected with that individual . We have a society that governs itself by laws . Until we do not , I 'm sorry to say that you will be prevented from doing some things that you may deem would make you happy . And , should you insist on doing those things the law prohibits , you may be punished for doing them , even if they made you happy .""","""You are missing the point of my using the quote . It is not an excuse for any kind of behavior . It is me , telling you , and anyone else who cares to meddle in my private affairs that they are not welcome there and I will not be taking into consideration for one second what any of you think .""",DISAGREE,"""Interesting . It ca n't be acted out in many areas though .""","""You are missing the point of my using the quote .""",,
35190,9199,"""Interesting quote . It ca n't be acted out in many areas though . Murder for instance . Or speeding . Jaywalking either . Running stop signs . Beating children . No matter how happy these acts may make someone , they can be punished if they perform them , even if the state is wholly unconnected with that individual . We have a society that governs itself by laws . Until we do not , I 'm sorry to say that you will be prevented from doing some things that you may deem would make you happy . And , should you insist on doing those things the law prohibits , you may be punished for doing them , even if they made you happy .""","""You are missing the point of my using the quote . It is not an excuse for any kind of behavior . It is me , telling you , and anyone else who cares to meddle in my private affairs that they are not welcome there and I will not be taking into consideration for one second what any of you think .""",DISAGREE,"""you will be prevented from doing some things that you may deem would make you happy . And , should you insist on doing those things the law prohibits , you may be punished for doing them""","""anyone else who cares to meddle in my private affairs that they are not welcome there and I will not be taking into consideration for one second what any of you think .""",,
35214,9203,"""God does n't want it , but he ca n't stop it .""","""An omnipotent deity that created something ca n't destroy it ?""",DISAGREE,"""God does n't want it , but he ca n't stop it .""","""An omnipotent deity that created something ca n't destroy it ?""",,
35229,9207,"""Judicial fiat is a word I used , and I really have no issues with gays being treated equally . Though I have tremendous opposition against the desire to see courts and judges impose gay marriage while bypassing the legislature . Judicial fiat is a real concept , and it is a legitimate concern .""","""But not a legitimate concern in this case . I have never seen anyone show in any way that the Massachusetts court ruled incorrectly or abused their powers in the least . They based their ruling on their state constitution , which is exactly what they 're supposed to do . '' fiat `` is simply a red flag to wave around to scare up some negative emotions .""",DISAGREE,"""Judicial fiat is a word I used , and I really have no issues with gays being treated equally .""","""But not a legitimate concern in this case""",,
35257,9216,"""And you wonder what has prevented me from being in an accident ? Well , perhaps the fact that I am a concientious , defensive , and skilled driver who excercises caution while on the road . Maybe next time someone pulls out in front of me , I should just throw my hands in the air and scream `` take the wheel jesus ! `` I am sure some magical being will fly down from heaven and save me from crashing . Yeah ... sure .""","""I know there & # 8217 ; s an explanation for everything , that & # 8217 ; s why God isn & # 8217 ; t praised as much as He should be . I tend to thank Him for all things . It & # 8217 ; s a habit of mine . I just thought that I & # 8217 ; d throw in my 2 cents worth . No harm intended .""",DISAGREE,"""I should just throw my hands in the air and scream `` take the wheel jesus ! `` I am sure some magical being will fly down from heaven and save me from crashing . Yeah ... sure""","""that s why God isn t praised as much as He should be""",,
35263,9218,"""And here 's something else I do n't get . Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""Even Darwin objected to the use of the phrase `` survival of the fittest `` in refering to his theories . He never used the phrase before the 4th edition of `` Origin `` and then he never used it without also making a reference to natural selection .""",DISAGREE,"""Evolutionists ' concept of selection basically means `` survival of the fittest. ``""","""Even Darwin objected to the use of the phrase `` survival of the fittest ``""",,
35271,9220,"""So strike one .""","""For you ?""",DISAGREE,"""So strike one .""","""For you""",,
35283,9223,"""On top of these decisions , you also have consider the health risks fo carring the child to term OR the risks involved in getting an abortion .""","""Yes , I certainly did consider these risks , and the risks at the time were far higher for continuing pregnancy than getting an abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""you also have consider the health risks fo carring the child to term OR the risks involved in getting an abortion .""","""the risks at the time were far higher for continuing pregnancy than getting an abortion .""",,
35294,9225,"""claiming to be 'just like me ' detracts from that argument . claiming to be 'just like everyone else ' would work , and i 'll assume you meant something like that ( if you want to know why , read some of my other posts ) . this also goes against roughly 1/3rd of the philosiphies of the gay couples i know and commonly associate with- those philosiphies being 'hey ! sex is for pleasure , and if you 're trying to avoid having kids the best way is to * * * * the same sex as yourself ! '""","""Well , I would not make the claim that anyone is just like anyone else , but I would make the claim that gay people are just as likely to be good people as anyone else . Now , I would wager that I know far more gay people than you do . I wager this only because I am in a variety of gay rights organizations , as well as other gay-friendly organizations . I also have many gay friends outside of these organizations . I know of none being sexually promiscuous , though perhaps some are doing it behind my back . I know of many who do believe that sex is for pleasure , but an equal , if not greater percentage of heterosexuals who also believe sex should be used for pleasure . Further , I know a number of very promiscuous heterosexuals . Yet we let those heterosexuals marry . In truth , I see no reason not to . Lots of people of all sexual orientations believe that sex should be used for pleasure , not just children . This fact is a religious / moral belief , and it does not make these people bad parents , nor does it make these people bad people , nor does it make these people less in need of the benefits of marriage should they decide to start a family . If we are going to give marriage to some people , it is inexcusable to deny that marriage to others who are in equal need of it . If you would like others to respect your status as a husband ( or wife , or whatever you would prefer that I refer to you as ) , then you must be willing to respect the marriage of others in return .""",DISAGREE,"""claiming to be 'just like me ' detracts from that argument . claiming to be 'just like everyone else ' would work ,""","""I would not make the claim that anyone is just like anyone else , but I would make the claim that gay people are just as likely to be good people as anyone else .""",,
35303,9234,"""soon after jesus was born , herod had all the young males born within the last 2 years killed . jesus ' parents are supernaturally warned and flee to egypt until the whole baby-killing thing blew over""","""Yeah , but Herod is n't a demon : he 's a human king .""",DISAGREE,"""soon after jesus was born , herod had all the young males born within the last 2 years killed""","""Herod is n't a demon : he 's a human king .""",,
35317,9241,"""I find this terribly offensive Gansao and am ashamed that this came from you ..... How many times have the hatemongers and the bigots used such speech as their only defense against equality ? Now such speech is used again in opposition of equality taking root in out nations capital ..... And animal can not consent . An animal is not a consenting legal adult , does not have the brain capacity to consent , and is an affront to animal welfare to even consider such a thing .... To all those applying for marriage licenses in our Capital I send out my warmest congratulations . Not even ten years ago let alone 40 , when we were tossed in the back of police cars , beaten with nightsticks , and raided in our bars would we even dream of such a day .....""","""I apologise if I have offended you Jason . Furthermore I must admit that I do not actually own a camel .""",DISAGREE,"""And animal can not consent . An animal is not a consenting legal adult , does not have the brain capacity to consent ,""","""I apologise if I have offended you Jason . Furthermore I must admit that I do not actually own a camel .""",,
35329,9242,"""But it was immediately denounced by members of the Metropolitan Police Authority ( MPA ) , the body which governs the actions of Scotland Yard , which was apparently not consulted on the controversial decision . One MPA member described the move as `` totally unacceptable `` while another called for an emergency meeting . Joanne McCartney said : `` We want fewer guns on the streets not more , and people to feel safe in their community – not scared of those who are supposed to protect them .""","""So let 's look at the facts . In the UK there 's a continual fear of the people being armed , so pervasive and paralyzing in nature , that it extends even to the police being armed . You fear your own neighbors , you fear your own police officers . You insist that absolutely nobody can be trusted without extensive background checks and letters of reference of character , and even then you still do n't trust people . And yet you claim that this society of fear , this overwhelming distrust of absolutely everyone , is somehow the better society , the safer society . You want us to believe that fearing your own shadow is the kind of society that we in America should strive to become . No thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""But it was immediately denounced by members of the Metropolitan Police Authority ( MPA ) , the body which governs the actions of Scotland Yard , which was apparently not consulted on the controversial ``""","""So let 's look at the facts . In the UK there 's a continual fear of the people being armed , so pervasive and paralyzing in nature , that it extends even to the police being armed . You fear your own neighbors , you fear your own police officers .""",,
35330,9242,"""But it was immediately denounced by members of the Metropolitan Police Authority ( MPA ) , the body which governs the actions of Scotland Yard , which was apparently not consulted on the controversial decision . One MPA member described the move as `` totally unacceptable `` while another called for an emergency meeting . Joanne McCartney said : `` We want fewer guns on the streets not more , and people to feel safe in their community – not scared of those who are supposed to protect them .""","""So let 's look at the facts . In the UK there 's a continual fear of the people being armed , so pervasive and paralyzing in nature , that it extends even to the police being armed . You fear your own neighbors , you fear your own police officers . You insist that absolutely nobody can be trusted without extensive background checks and letters of reference of character , and even then you still do n't trust people . And yet you claim that this society of fear , this overwhelming distrust of absolutely everyone , is somehow the better society , the safer society . You want us to believe that fearing your own shadow is the kind of society that we in America should strive to become . No thanks .""",DISAGREE,"""But it was immediately denounced by members of the Metropolitan Police Authority ( MPA ) ,""","""So let 's look at the facts . In the UK there 's a continual fear of the people being armed ,""",,
35361,9246,"""I think we are talking about different things . A belief in adam and eve is not the same as being a good christian . The disbeleif in adam and eve can not DIRECTLY be used as a excuse to murder . Also did hitler talk about anything else other than keeping bloodlines pure ? Because these ideas to rely on the main theme of darwins origin of the species , in your quote you show how darwin states that eugenics is just an obvious consequence of the facts of animal husbandry .""","""A belief in Adam and Eve is a fundamental necessity to being a Christian at all . Jesus Christ believed in Adam and Eve , after all He created them . Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them ; and blessed them , and called their name Adam , in the day when they were created . [ Adam means man ] These arevthe words of Jesus Christ . You will notice He refers to the Old Testement as History . Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them , Have ye not read , that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female , Mat 19:5 And said , For this cause shall a man leave father and mother , and shall cleave to his wife : and they twain shall be one flesh ? Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain , but one flesh . What therefore God hath joined together , let not man put asunder . Mat 19:7 They say unto him , Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement , and to put her away ? Mat 19:8 He saith unto them , Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives : but from the beginning it was not so . Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God . Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God . Joh 1:3 All things were made by him ; and without him was not any thing made that was made . Joh 1:4 In him was life ; and the life was the light of men . Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness ; and the darkness comprehended it not . Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God , whose name was John . Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness , to bear witness of the Light , that all men through him might believe . Joh 1:8 He was not that Light , but was sent to bear witness of that Light . Joh 1:9 That was the true Light , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world . Joh 1:10 He was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not . Hitler said it was necessary to attack America because the best aryan stock had already moved here and would evolve into the master race .""",DISAGREE,"""The disbeleif in adam and eve can not DIRECTLY be used as a excuse to . Also did hitler talk about anything else other than keeping bloodlines pure""","""A belief in Adam and Eve is a fundamental necessity to being a Christian at all . Hitler said it was necessary to attack America because the best aryan stock had already moved here and would evolve into the master race .""",,
35387,9250,"""The problem here is that Christians ( such as I am ) consider the Bible to be Proof . I would be interested in seeing where you get your statistics that most births are impossible and most end in c-section . The women 's body begins preparing for birth from the minute she becomes pregnant . There are hormones released that allow for the cartilage to soften which allows the pelvis to spread as the child is born . Yes , birth is hard on the woman 's body , but personal responsibility comes into play . You did the deed , you do n't punish another for it . I am honestly torn on this one . Though I can see where it would be almost impossible for a woman to live with this , much less have a child that comes from this foul deed , I still do n't see where the child is to blame for the rape , thus it should not be punished . Much used and abused argument . Ca n't really be proven or disproven until it is tested , so I am not sure there is an argument . This is dramaticized by Hollywood leftists in movies and TV , so it has become this seemingly powerful point . Still not seeing where millions of children should be punished for the likely much fewer women who will seek abortion if it is made illegal . I would rather they overscreen than underscreen . I agree . I do not agree this means kill more babies . That is about as humanistic as you can get ( besides killing handicapped children ) . It all leads into a big , black hole . Religion influences all laws . Without that influence , there would be no laws . Note : humanism is also a religion !""","""# 1 See the post titled `` Biblical Failures `` in the Religion section of this forum . If the Bible has a single inaccuracy in it , then it can not be considered 100 % true . This post shows inaccuracies so the Bible can not be considered a reliable source for things that can not be proven and that includes trying to say whether an unborn baby has a soul . Besides , why should you be able to force your beliefs on everyone else ? Perhaps you could justify a law that says all Christians can not have abortions . # 2 A child who is unborn is not being punished by having its life ended . Even if you believe in the Bible , the child is going to simply ascend to heaven without having to suffer here on earth . If you do believe in the Bible and do n't believe this above fact , then you are saying that God will punish the child for being aborted . # 3 Your moronic statement about how there would be no laws without religion discredits your writings anyways . Laws do not stem from religion . They stem from the need for a society to be able to function properly . They stem from mans desire for power . Some do stem from religion but this does not make up the majority . If you wish to try and debate this , why not explain how religious influenced the laws concerning driving on a specific side of the road more than social influences did . # 4 Getting back to the abortion debate , what do you have against abortions ? Assuming you can not simply get off by saying the Bible says this or religion says that , what else can you say ? The fact is that abortion does not affect you . You can preach about abortion being bad and even protest it , but why should you try and force your beliefs on others ? I know this is the essence of Christianity , but why should it extend to society ? Pro-choice at least lets people decide what is best from them and the child . Can you honestly say it is better for a child to be born and mistreated and/or under fed until it dies than it is for a child to simply be aborted ?""",DISAGREE,"""I would be interested in seeing where you get your statistics that most births are impossible and most end in c-section .""","""in the Religion section of this forum . If the Bible has a single inaccuracy in it , then it can not be considered 100 % true .""",,
35401,9255,"""They ca n't win a intellectual argument as to the merits of ID or the problems of evolution , therefore they rely upon stacking the deck and the board . How infantile . Still , even after this change Kansas is the laughing stock of the world .""","""Only those parts of the world that are ignorant and do not bother to do their research . Those who DO research recognize that even with the changes , there was still no ID being taught in our classrooms , and we still had stricter definitions of `` science `` and stricter curriculum than 38 other states . Personally , I do n't CARE which way they go with this . They just need to pick one and stick with it . The changes DO NO effect curriculum at the classroom level , and DO NOT allow for any alternate theories ( if you want to call `` god dunnit `` a theory ) to be taught . The whole thing has just been an expensive peeing contest between 2 sets of XXXXXX that has drawn the attention of a bunch of other XXXXXX who fail to recognize that it means NOTHING . It is essentially a philosophical argument without meaning or merit . Kansas has some of the best schools in the nations . We are in the top 5 . This IDIOCY never should have been allowed to pollute our educational system , and it CERTAINLY should not have been re-introduced 4 times . The stupidity is simply mind boggling .""",DISAGREE,"""even after this change Kansas is the laughing stock of the world .""","""Only those parts of the world that are ignorant and do not bother to do their research .""",,
35403,9256,"""Evolutionists claim we came from the inferior to become more complexÂ….but it ’ s just the opposite – we started out more complex and are becoming inferior .""","""Another unfounded assertion .""",DISAGREE,"""we started out more complex and are becoming inferior .""","""Another unfounded assertion .""",,
35404,9256,"""Evolutionists claim we came from the inferior to become more complexÂ….but it ’ s just the opposite – we started out more complex and are becoming inferior .""","""Another unfounded assertion .""",DISAGREE,"""we started out more complex and are becoming inferior .""","""Another unfounded assertion .""",,
35415,9260,"""Pop Quiz for ServantOfChrist : Respond substantively to my dismantling of divine command theory in the slanderous thread you started months ago . No word limit .""","""Give a link to your objection and I 'll take a look and get to responding when I have more time .""",DISAGREE,"""Respond substantively to my dismantling of divine command theory in the slanderous thread you started months ago .""","""Give a link to your objection and I 'll take a look and get to responding when I have more time .""",,
35417,9260,"""Pop Quiz for ServantOfChrist : Respond substantively to my dismantling of divine command theory in the slanderous thread you started months ago . No word limit .""","""Give a link to your objection and I 'll take a look and get to responding when I have more time .""",DISAGREE,"""Respond substantively to my dismantling of divine command theory""","""Give a link to your objection and I 'll take a look and get to responding""",,
35421,9262,"""You mean the truth of thousands of young teen girls dead with a coat hanger in hand ? Abortion is a neccessity so that it can be regulated . People will have abortions legal or not legal . At least provide a safety net other than a coat hanger .""","""Well yes , that is a truth in this debate . I wonder if Vek would add vivid photgraphs of such tragic ends to his gallery ? After all , the position is called pro-life .""",AGREE,"""young teen girls dead with a coat hanger in hand ? People will have abortions legal or not legal . At least provide a safety net other than a coat hanger .""","""I wonder if Vek would add vivid photgraphs of such tragic ends to his gallery ? After all , the position is called pro-life .""",,
35450,9267,"""The father deserves nothing but scorn and derision . He is a murderous cretin whose stupidity killed his child .""","""Well that 's a stupid statement . Stupid enough that I ca n't even wrap my head around it and make a proper comparison .""",DISAGREE,"""The father deserves nothing but scorn and derision . He is a murderous cretin whose stupidity killed his child .""","""Well that 's a stupid statement .""",,
35463,9271,"""As I did not , you do n't . Now , do you retract your false statement that what you quoted was my reasoning ?""","""Fine , it 's not your reasoning . That does n't make the reasoning not defunct though .""",AGREE,"""do you retract your false statement""","""Fine , it 's not your reasoning""",,
35480,9276,"""A child is not an invader , though , a parasite living off his mother . A mother 's womb is the baby 's natural environment . Eileen McDonagh wants us to believe that the child growing inside of a woman is trespassing . One trespasses when he 's not in his rightful place , but a baby developing in the womb belongs there .""","""`` Belongs there `` is a subjective determination . Also , whether the womb is the fetus ' 'natural environment ' does not negate that it is 'tresspassing ' in the woman 's body ( and one can not say it is n't inside the woman 's body or that the body does n't belong to the woman ) .""",DISAGREE,"""the child growing inside of a woman is trespassing .""","""whether the womb is the fetus ' 'natural environment ' does not negate that it is 'tresspassing ' in the woman 's body""",,
35482,9277,"""One other point . The beauty of science is that it 's based on repeatable evidence . If I do a nifty experiment I can describe it to you , and you can do it yourself . If you do n't get the same results then my conclusions are suspect . One of the defining characteristics of the supernatural is that it does n't work on demand . So while convincing evidence might appear once , it 's unlikely to appear again . This does n't automatically mean that the supernatural is n't real , or that the original evidence is bogus . It does mean that scientific methods are n't necessarily the right tools to use to judge the supernatural . Science deals with laws , with constants . The supernatural is by definition a bit more flaky .""","""One can not have a controled experiment , as one can in the hard sciences . Psychology , anthropology and other disciplines also do not allow for controlled experiments . However , as with these other fields , one can do a detailed analysis of events that do occur to see if there is a common trend . For example , if people claim to see a supernatural event , take them aside separately to question them about the details . If one can be sure that they did n't get a chance to coordinate the details ahead of time and , nevertheless , the details match , then that would be evidence supporting the supernatural . If this happens consistently , then it would start giving strong support to the existence of a supernatural . Unfortunately , though there are occasional events that remain unexplained , we all know that the great majority of events have not resulted in any conclusive evidence of a supernatural and often they are shown to be simply fraudulent or due to psychological misinterpretation . Since so many of these claims about the supernatural have proven to be dead ends , it is understandable that people should automatically be wary of anyone 's claim toward supernatural proof , which has led to the very subject being essentially taboo in intellectual circles . That is unfortunate . If there actually was a supernatural and did manifest itself , then it might never be discovered because any genuine evidence presented would be automatically ignored because of the taboo . The main challenge is to have the patience to weed through the thousands of bogus claims in the hope of finding something genuine - whether or not that hope ever gets fulfilled .""",DISAGREE,"""The beauty of science is that it 's based on repeatable evidence .""","""One can not have a controled experiment , as one can in the hard sciences . Psychology , anthropology and other disciplines also do not allow for controlled experiments .""",,
35492,9279,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""When contraception failed in my monogamous long term relationship , I heavily researched both options , as well as parenting . I looked into requirements for Medicaid , WIC , and other subsidized assistance offered in my community . I called a few clinics around town . That 's an interesting story , but not for here . I had heart to heart talks to many different people with different viewpoints . I decided to have an abortion because I was sick all the time . I had diagnosed migraine headaches constantly , and my seizure disorder that had laid dormant for years returned . I could n't leave my house . I lost my job . I was in the middle of my education ( it was early summer ) and if I continued my pregnancy it would have put me back a semester , thus costing thousands of dollars . The father did not want me to continue the pregnancy because he was concerned about my physical health . Just thinking about that time period makes me nauseated . I understood the merits of adoption , especially since my father was adopted . I talked to my aunt about adoption and foster care , since she has participated in both . I also thought about parenting , the love and all the things I have to offer . I knew that the father would have supported my decision to parent , I knew that our financial hardships could be dealt with , and I knew that my education could be continued later . I came to the conclusion that abortion was the best choice for me and my health . I appreciate that some may find this decision selfish , and essentially it is , since it was made with my best interests in mind . I would also hope that even if they consider it selfish , they understand the reasons why I made that decision . And if it was your wife , daughter , friend , and she was dealing with what I was , you would not expect her to continue a pregnancy .""",AGREE,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""I knew that the father would have supported my decision to parent""",,
35491,9279,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""When contraception failed in my monogamous long term relationship , I heavily researched both options , as well as parenting . I looked into requirements for Medicaid , WIC , and other subsidized assistance offered in my community . I called a few clinics around town . That 's an interesting story , but not for here . I had heart to heart talks to many different people with different viewpoints . I decided to have an abortion because I was sick all the time . I had diagnosed migraine headaches constantly , and my seizure disorder that had laid dormant for years returned . I could n't leave my house . I lost my job . I was in the middle of my education ( it was early summer ) and if I continued my pregnancy it would have put me back a semester , thus costing thousands of dollars . The father did not want me to continue the pregnancy because he was concerned about my physical health . Just thinking about that time period makes me nauseated . I understood the merits of adoption , especially since my father was adopted . I talked to my aunt about adoption and foster care , since she has participated in both . I also thought about parenting , the love and all the things I have to offer . I knew that the father would have supported my decision to parent , I knew that our financial hardships could be dealt with , and I knew that my education could be continued later . I came to the conclusion that abortion was the best choice for me and my health . I appreciate that some may find this decision selfish , and essentially it is , since it was made with my best interests in mind . I would also hope that even if they consider it selfish , they understand the reasons why I made that decision . And if it was your wife , daughter , friend , and she was dealing with what I was , you would not expect her to continue a pregnancy .""",AGREE,"""Why do women opt for abortion over adoption ?""","""I decided to have an abortion because I was sick all the time . I had diagnosed migraine headaches constantly , and my seizure disorder that had laid dormant for years""",,
35506,9283,"""So you do n't support Connecticut passing a civil union law ?""","""Why ca n't you answer questions directly ? anyway , I support ct in passing civil unions or marriage lite as I like to see it , but It does n't confer equality . If it is really equ8al than it would be marrige . Reason beinbg portablity ( irealize you think that some day we might have that , but we do n't so far and we can not ccontrol other countries who may have gay marriage but not cilvil unions and may not recognize civil unions but recognize marriage . ) If it is good for straight couples , it should be equally good for all couples. . No one is more superior . Everyone should be equal . Marriage for all is equals .""",DISAGREE,"""you do n't support Connecticut passing a civil union law ?""","""I support ct in passing civil unions or marriage lite as I like to see it , but It does n't confer equality .""",,
35529,9289,"""* * FYI -- `` Public release date : 5-Apr-2007 [ Print Article | E-mail Article | Close Window ] Contact : Audrey Huang audrey @ jhmi.edu 410-614-5105 Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions Need oxygen ? Cells know how to spend and save Researchers at Johns Hopkins have discovered how cells fine-tune their oxygen use to make do with whatever amount is available at the moment . On the Web : http : //www.cell.com/ http : //www.hopkinsmedicine.org/genet ... ine/index.html""","""An excellent example of the mechanisms of evolution . Thank you . I do n't know why you keep posting articles that refute your position though .""",AGREE,"""Contact : Audrey Huang audrey @ jhmi.edu 410-614-5105 Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions Need oxygen ?""","""An excellent example of the mechanisms of evolution . Thank you .""",,
35540,9298,"""They should be discredited , and their hypocrisy should be exposed . Here we have people trying to deny other people the right to marry , supposedly in `` defense `` of `` traditional marriage , `` when some of them are out sneaking around , cheating on their wives , and lying about it when confronted . The only reason this guy admitted the truth is because evidence surfaced about his visits to prostitutes . Meanwhile , has has tried to advance his political career at the expense of gay people . Some defender of marriage ! This is a classic example of someone needing to get the log out of his own eye .""","""Where did Vitter lie ? He admitted his wrong doing and apologised to his wife . Had a liberal been accused he would have attacked the leak as a Right Wing attack designed to destroy him with the politics of personal destruction . The double standards are a joke . Out of 10,000 different names she has released , do you really think there are no Democrats on that list ? But ABC has those phone records so they can release a different Republican on the list every month to demonize the Right while never exposing the libs on the list , thereby creating a totally false impression of the real story that people from both sides of the aisle are guilty of indiscretions .""",DISAGREE,"""They should be discredited , and their hypocrisy should be exposed .""","""Where did Vitter lie ? He admitted his wrong doing and apologised to his wife .""",,
35539,9298,"""They should be discredited , and their hypocrisy should be exposed . Here we have people trying to deny other people the right to marry , supposedly in `` defense `` of `` traditional marriage , `` when some of them are out sneaking around , cheating on their wives , and lying about it when confronted . The only reason this guy admitted the truth is because evidence surfaced about his visits to prostitutes . Meanwhile , has has tried to advance his political career at the expense of gay people . Some defender of marriage ! This is a classic example of someone needing to get the log out of his own eye .""","""Where did Vitter lie ? He admitted his wrong doing and apologised to his wife . Had a liberal been accused he would have attacked the leak as a Right Wing attack designed to destroy him with the politics of personal destruction . The double standards are a joke . Out of 10,000 different names she has released , do you really think there are no Democrats on that list ? But ABC has those phone records so they can release a different Republican on the list every month to demonize the Right while never exposing the libs on the list , thereby creating a totally false impression of the real story that people from both sides of the aisle are guilty of indiscretions .""",DISAGREE,"""The only reason this guy admitted the truth is because evidence surfaced about his visits to prostitutes""","""Right Wing attack designed to destroy him with the politics of personal destruction .""",,
35537,9298,"""They should be discredited , and their hypocrisy should be exposed . Here we have people trying to deny other people the right to marry , supposedly in `` defense `` of `` traditional marriage , `` when some of them are out sneaking around , cheating on their wives , and lying about it when confronted . The only reason this guy admitted the truth is because evidence surfaced about his visits to prostitutes . Meanwhile , has has tried to advance his political career at the expense of gay people . Some defender of marriage ! This is a classic example of someone needing to get the log out of his own eye .""","""Where did Vitter lie ? He admitted his wrong doing and apologised to his wife . Had a liberal been accused he would have attacked the leak as a Right Wing attack designed to destroy him with the politics of personal destruction . The double standards are a joke . Out of 10,000 different names she has released , do you really think there are no Democrats on that list ? But ABC has those phone records so they can release a different Republican on the list every month to demonize the Right while never exposing the libs on the list , thereby creating a totally false impression of the real story that people from both sides of the aisle are guilty of indiscretions .""",DISAGREE,"""The only reason this guy admitted the truth is because evidence surfaced about his visits to prostitutes""","""He admitted his wrong doing and apologised to his wife""",,
35580,9310,"""ok were supposed to believe in GOd and then believe in evolutin ...""","""Actually , no one cares if you believe in god . That is your business since it is something that you take on faith without any evidence that it is true . And no one believes in `` evolutin `` [ sic ] . The theory of evolution is an explanation for observed facts that has been repeatedly tested . It is the best explanation that scientists have been able to formulate . It is based on evidence and not faith .""",DISAGREE,"""ok were supposed to believe in GOd and then believe in evolutin""","""Actually , no one cares if you believe in god . That is your business since it is something that you take on faith without any evidence that it is true""",,
35585,9319,"""At what point do SS 's antics go from silly misinformed creationist to outright spamming ? He keeps opening new threads , saying the exact same thing with no proof or links ( Except of course to image files that are pretty much meaningless ) and then he rinses and repeats . It is getting a little annoying , and if we just ignore his posts he 'll claim victory , which is sad but still a pain . Any suggestions ?""","""I would seriously suggest that no new threads opened by SS are responded to by reasoning posters until he has responded satisfactorily to the opposing arguments in existing ones . I suggest this should start with the 'Nightmare continues ' thread . Yes , he 'll probably post something like 'No answer , eh , geniuses ? ' , and I agree that 's irritating , but we 'll know - and he 'll know inside himself - that he 's just posturing .""",AGREE,"""At what point do SS 's antics go from silly misinformed creationist to outright spamming ?""","""I would seriously suggest that no new threads opened by SS are responded to by reasoning posters until he has responded satisfactorily to the opposing arguments in existing ones .""",,
35592,9321,"""So Let me understand , are you against abortion in the second and third trimester ?""","""No , but the first trimester makes my point stronger , and given that 95-98 % of abortions happen then it is a valid distinction .""",DISAGREE,"""So Let me understand , are you against abortion in the second and third trimester ?""","""No , but the first trimester makes my point stronger , and given that 95-98 % of abortions happen then it is a valid distinction .""",,
35604,9332,"""What use would a handgun be against a tank or F-16 Fighter plane ?""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later , making them vulnerable to ambush by armed guerrillas . Then again the Second Amendment does n't limit itself to handguns , but rather all modern bearable arms that 're in common use , so we have a full repertoire of arms at our disposal should we need them .""",DISAGREE,"""What use would a handgun be against a tank""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later , making them vulnerable to ambush by armed guerrillas .""",,
35605,9332,"""What use would a handgun be against a tank or F-16 Fighter plane ?""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later , making them vulnerable to ambush by armed guerrillas . Then again the Second Amendment does n't limit itself to handguns , but rather all modern bearable arms that 're in common use , so we have a full repertoire of arms at our disposal should we need them .""",DISAGREE,"""What use would a handgun be against a tank or F-16 Fighter plane ?""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later ,""",,
35606,9332,"""What use would a handgun be against a tank or F-16 Fighter plane ?""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later , making them vulnerable to ambush by armed guerrillas . Then again the Second Amendment does n't limit itself to handguns , but rather all modern bearable arms that 're in common use , so we have a full repertoire of arms at our disposal should we need them .""",DISAGREE,"""would a handgun be against a tank or F-16 Fighter plane ?""","""Tank crews and fighter pilots have to get out sooner or later ,""",,
35641,9339,"""This is where the mistaken version of Ockham 's Razor is harmful to science : it stops research . All we have to do is compare the number of assumptions and decide that the theory with fewer assumptions is wrong . No data . No investigation . Simply sit and count assumptions .""","""Actually , with more data that changes the number of assumptions required , it is possible to reach a greater degree of certainty about something . The greater degree of certainty you reach , the better you will be able to apply your findings .""",DISAGREE,"""count assumptions .""","""more data that changes the number of assumptions""",,
35644,9340,"""If in truth , you do see the possibilty of arms being needed to overthrow a despotic government , then surely you must see the need to NOT usurp the rights of good and honest men , but to only infringe on those that break the law . Civil discourse and unrest , is in and of itself , not necessarily bad . Criminal misuse of that freedom , as with all freedoms is .""","""Well , criminals are per definition those who break the law and the law is what you make of it . If private fire arms where illegal , those who would carry a firearm without proper license or permision would be considered criminals . Civil unrest , when turning into violence , is often something bad ...""",DISAGREE,"""If in truth , you do see the possibilty of arms being needed to overthrow a despotic government ,""","""criminals are per definition those who break the law and the law is what you make of it .""",,
35646,9340,"""If in truth , you do see the possibilty of arms being needed to overthrow a despotic government , then surely you must see the need to NOT usurp the rights of good and honest men , but to only infringe on those that break the law . Civil discourse and unrest , is in and of itself , not necessarily bad . Criminal misuse of that freedom , as with all freedoms is .""","""Well , criminals are per definition those who break the law and the law is what you make of it . If private fire arms where illegal , those who would carry a firearm without proper license or permision would be considered criminals . Civil unrest , when turning into violence , is often something bad ...""",DISAGREE,"""If in truth , you do see the possibilty of arms being needed to overthrow a despotic government , then surely you must see the need to NOT usurp the rights of good and honest men , but to only infringe on those that break the law .""","""Well , criminals are per definition those who break the law and the law is what you make of it .""",,
35654,9342,"""Shotguns are used for hunting .""","""so are handguns .""",AGREE,"""Shotguns are used for hunting .""","""so are handguns .""",,
35658,9343,"""You can conclude that the odds of happenstance origins are more remote than previously thought . Ruling something out , or considering it less likely by using numbers is a very scientific and logical thing to do .""","""Again , I do n't know what happenstance origins are , but ruling something out because it 's unlikely does n't work . I have made the poker analogy very often . If you are dealt in order , the 3 of spades , then the 5 of hearts , then the 9 of clubs , then the 4 of diamonds , then the 6 of hearts , would you decide immediately that it was not true ? The odds are ( 1/52 ) * ( 1/51 ) * ( 1/50 ) * ( 1/49 ) * ( 1/48 ) = 1/311,875,200 . This could be done for multiple games . The odds get slimmer and slimmer , but the difference is that something had to happen . No matter what cards you got , the odds of you getting the same card in that order would be this slim .""",DISAGREE,"""You can conclude that the odds of happenstance origins are more remote than previously thought .""","""Again , I do n't know what happenstance origins are , but ruling something out because it 's unlikely does n't work .""",,
35679,9346,"""What is that Pesky word in the Constitution & # 8217 ; s Bill of Rights again ? Oh Yeah , now I remember . Due Process ! So the writers of this bill chooses not only to deny one , of their 2nd Amendment right , but also their 14th Amendment right as well .""","""Actually , the Second Amendment does n't say anything about due process . It does not say that people on a terror watch list can not be prohibited from buying weapons , but the right can be infringed with due process of law . In fact , the Second Amendment says nothing about the circumstances under which it can be infringed . One scholar comments on the implications of this for the individual rights interpretation : `` If read as an individual right , criminals , convicted felons , pirates , or revolutionaries could all be armed in the District of Columbia or in the federal territories . Pirates could load up their ships on the Potomac River and sail out to sea . Hunters could trample through Yellowstone or some other national park , guns in hand . [ 185 ] Anyone might board a plane , gun in hand , or carry a weapon into Congress , the White House , or any other federal building ... The Fifth Amendment allows the taking of liberty under some circumstances , while the Second , if read as an individual right , does not. `` Chicago-Kent Law Review 18th Century Pennsylvania , which had its own RKBA , passed a law which required citizens to take an oath of allegiance to the state or face being disarmed . This was to protect the state against those who might be loyal to the British Crown . So why ca n't the US take similar measures to protect itself against terrorists ?""",DISAGREE,"""Bill of Rights again ? Oh Yeah , now I remember . Due Process ! So the writers of this bill chooses not only to deny one , of their 2nd Amendment right ,""","""the Second Amendment does n't say anything about due process .""",,
35696,9348,"""The publicity does not matter .""","""In this case I 'm afraid it does . ( 1 ) To see if the OJ scene would once again playout . ( 2 ) To see a ruling made on behalf of an unborn child . All the rest is one dumb killer , IMO .""",DISAGREE,"""The publicity does not matter .""","""In this case I 'm afraid it does .""",,
35704,9349,"""the questions were not actually questions , but demands . Only projects one type of response . One we try to stay away from here at this forum .""","""okay ... maybe he was a little pushy , but it made me wonder about this issue . I looked at some of the links presented by creationists ; a book that attacks evolutionary biology by an electrical engineer , and a long rant about a false dichotomy established by evolutionists where they will reject any theory that does n't correspond to a philosophy of naturalism . The latter ( http : //www.trueorigin.org/creatheory.asp ) actually presented one aspect of a theory of creation . That being that all creatures started off with all the genetic information they needed and that observed change in animals is a degredation of information . This runs counter to evolutionary theory that simple unicellular organisms with simple DNA eventually became more complex . This is actually a decent claim , in the sense that it is a model that can be examined ... and quickly thrown out for obvious reasons ( antibiotic resistance , why are all creatures on earth so similar in genetic makeup ) I was wondering if anyone could bolster this claim or present another theory of creation . Really , unless some kind of theory is presented , all you are doing is bashing evolution . I can bash the laws of motion too ( not well , though ) but it does n't disprove them . Perhaps I 'm a little pushy too , but I find it annoying when truth is replaced with ... other things .""",DISAGREE,"""the questions were not actually questions , but demands .""","""maybe he was a little pushy , but it made me wonder about this issue .""",,
35717,9351,"""But genetics has nothing to do with it .""","""So you are saying that genetics has nothing to do with genetics ?""",DISAGREE,"""But genetics has nothing to do with it .""","""So you are saying that genetics has nothing to do with genetics ?""",,
35756,9358,"""Originally posted by kelvin90701 There was an act , which was legal at the time .""","""Yeah and he was n't prosecuted for the legal act you 're referring to . If so then anybody could be prosecuted for possessing a firearm prior to the ban even if they voluntarily turned in their guns already . The problem is that he did n't turn in his gun . So that analogy with changing the speed limit is a false analogy . Let 's not confuse the issue .""",DISAGREE,"""There was an act , which was legal at the time .""","""If so then anybody could be prosecuted for possessing a firearm prior to the ban even if they voluntarily""",,
35768,9362,"""`` the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to [ 445 U.S. 55 , 66 ] the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia ' `` -Lewis v. United States ( US Supreme Court 1980 ) - VOR Lewis vs. United States : It is about a felon who wants to carry a gun . The decision clearly says felons can not own firearms . '' In 1961 , petitioner George Calvin Lewis , Jr. , upon his plea of guilty , was convicted in a Florida state court of a felony [ 445 U.S. 55 , 57 ] for breaking and entering with intent to commit a misdemeanor . See Fla. Stat . 810.05 ( 1961 ) . He served a term of imprisonment . That conviction has never been overturned , nor has petitioner ever received a qualifying pardon or permission from the Secretary of the Treasury to possess a firearm . See 18 U.S.C . App . 1203 ( 2 ) and 18 U.S.C . 925 ( c ) . In January 1977 , Lewis , on probable cause , was arrested in Virginia , and later was charged by indictment with having knowingly received and possessed at that time a specified firearm , in violation of 18 U.S.C . App . 1202 ( a ) ( 1 ) . [ ... ] `` http : //www.agh-attorneys.com/4_lewis_v_US.htm""","""Keep Going : `` F . Myth # 6 : The Second Amendment militia is the National Guard . The Founding Fathers made it clear that the Militia was composed of the populace at large . Both the Congress and Supreme Court have affirmed this definition of the Militia . 1 . Founding Fathers * George Mason : `` I ask , who are the militia ? They consist now of the whole people , except a few public officers . '' 145 * Virginia Constitution , Art . I , Sec . 13 ( 1776 ) : `` That a well-regulated militia , composed of the body of the people , trained to arms , is the proper , natural , and safe defense of a free State ; that standing armies , in time of peace , should be avoided , as dangerous to liberty .... `` * Richard Henry Lee : `` To preserve liberty , it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms , and be taught alike , especially when young , how to use them .... The mind that aims at a select militia [ like the National Guard ] , must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle . '' 146 2 . U.S. Congress * The Militia Act of 1792 . One year after the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution , Congress passed a law defining the militia . The Militia Act of 1792 declared that all free male citizens between the ages of 18 and 44 were to be members of the militia . Furthermore , every citizen was to be armed . The Act stated : `` Every citizen ... [ shall ] provide himself with a good musket , or firelock , a sufficient bayonet and belt , two spare flints .... `` 147 The Militia Act of 1792 made no provision for any type of select militia such as the National Guard . * U.S. Senate Subcommittee Report ( 1982 ) . '' In the Militia Act of 1792 , the second Congress defined 'militia of the United States ' to include almost every free adult male in the United States . These persons were obligated by law to possess a [ military-style ] firearm and a minimum supply of ammunition and military equipment .... There can be little doubt from this that when the Congress and the people spoke of the a 'militia , ' they had reference to the traditional concept of the entire populace capable of bearing arms , and not to any formal group such as what is today called the National Guard . '' 148 * Current Federal Law : 10 U.S.C . Sec . 311 . '' The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and ... under 45 years of age who are , or who have made a declaration of intention to become , citizens of the United States .... `` 149 3 . Supreme Court : U.S. v. Miller ( 1939 ) . In this case , the Court stated that , `` The Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense ... [ and that ] when called for service , these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time . '' 150 `` `` The Right of the People ``""",DISAGREE,"""Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm , The decision clearly says felons can not own firearms .""","""The Second Amendment militia , who are the militia ? They consist now of the whole people ,""",,
35767,9362,"""`` the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to [ 445 U.S. 55 , 66 ] the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia ' `` -Lewis v. United States ( US Supreme Court 1980 ) - VOR Lewis vs. United States : It is about a felon who wants to carry a gun . The decision clearly says felons can not own firearms . '' In 1961 , petitioner George Calvin Lewis , Jr. , upon his plea of guilty , was convicted in a Florida state court of a felony [ 445 U.S. 55 , 57 ] for breaking and entering with intent to commit a misdemeanor . See Fla. Stat . 810.05 ( 1961 ) . He served a term of imprisonment . That conviction has never been overturned , nor has petitioner ever received a qualifying pardon or permission from the Secretary of the Treasury to possess a firearm . See 18 U.S.C . App . 1203 ( 2 ) and 18 U.S.C . 925 ( c ) . In January 1977 , Lewis , on probable cause , was arrested in Virginia , and later was charged by indictment with having knowingly received and possessed at that time a specified firearm , in violation of 18 U.S.C . App . 1202 ( a ) ( 1 ) . [ ... ] `` http : //www.agh-attorneys.com/4_lewis_v_US.htm""","""Keep Going : `` F . Myth # 6 : The Second Amendment militia is the National Guard . The Founding Fathers made it clear that the Militia was composed of the populace at large . Both the Congress and Supreme Court have affirmed this definition of the Militia . 1 . Founding Fathers * George Mason : `` I ask , who are the militia ? They consist now of the whole people , except a few public officers . '' 145 * Virginia Constitution , Art . I , Sec . 13 ( 1776 ) : `` That a well-regulated militia , composed of the body of the people , trained to arms , is the proper , natural , and safe defense of a free State ; that standing armies , in time of peace , should be avoided , as dangerous to liberty .... `` * Richard Henry Lee : `` To preserve liberty , it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms , and be taught alike , especially when young , how to use them .... The mind that aims at a select militia [ like the National Guard ] , must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle . '' 146 2 . U.S. Congress * The Militia Act of 1792 . One year after the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution , Congress passed a law defining the militia . The Militia Act of 1792 declared that all free male citizens between the ages of 18 and 44 were to be members of the militia . Furthermore , every citizen was to be armed . The Act stated : `` Every citizen ... [ shall ] provide himself with a good musket , or firelock , a sufficient bayonet and belt , two spare flints .... `` 147 The Militia Act of 1792 made no provision for any type of select militia such as the National Guard . * U.S. Senate Subcommittee Report ( 1982 ) . '' In the Militia Act of 1792 , the second Congress defined 'militia of the United States ' to include almost every free adult male in the United States . These persons were obligated by law to possess a [ military-style ] firearm and a minimum supply of ammunition and military equipment .... There can be little doubt from this that when the Congress and the people spoke of the a 'militia , ' they had reference to the traditional concept of the entire populace capable of bearing arms , and not to any formal group such as what is today called the National Guard . '' 148 * Current Federal Law : 10 U.S.C . Sec . 311 . '' The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and ... under 45 years of age who are , or who have made a declaration of intention to become , citizens of the United States .... `` 149 3 . Supreme Court : U.S. v. Miller ( 1939 ) . In this case , the Court stated that , `` The Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense ... [ and that ] when called for service , these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time . '' 150 `` `` The Right of the People ``""",DISAGREE,"""Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to""","""Keep Going""",,
35776,9366,"""When I was an atheist , I was quite unconvinced by rational arguments for the existence of God . Now that I am a Christian , I am quite unconvinced by rational arguments for the existence of God . B""","""Well , we 're not devoid of emotion . So you can know God through your whole self , not just a small part of you ( i.e . logic ) . We Orthodox believe in noetic knowledge , that is , knowledge gained through 'the heart ' .""",DISAGREE,"""Now that I am a Christian , I am quite unconvinced by rational arguments for the existence of God . B""","""So you can know God through your whole self""",,
35794,9371,"""Basically what Sigma said . The devil is always in the details and the Child Custody Protection Act seems to assume that all parents are good parents when unfortunately there are plently of * * * * -poor parents out there . It fallaciously assumes homogeneity in the use of parental authority . The problem is letting the good parents get on with raising their children while preventing the bad parents from further screwing up their childrens ' lives . Protecting both parental authority for those capable of handling it and the children who may be victims of its abuse is not something that the CCPA seems to do well enough .""","""And there you have hit the nail on the head ; there are both good and P-poor parents out there . Each case should be taken on its own merits ; it 's dam tough to make one rule fit all . Impossible , actually .""",AGREE,"""The devil is always in the details and the Child Custody Protection Act seems to assume that all parents are good parents when unfortunately there are plently of * * * * -poor parents out there .""","""And there you have hit the nail on the head""",,
35798,9372,"""no proof of it exists if the earth was [ sic ] millions of years old than [ sic ] there would be no fossils of dinosaurs and people and do n't say preseservative because they do n't last that long ill [ sic ] let you think about that""","""Can you say run-on sentence ? I knew you could ! It seems that we have another scientific illiterate ( as well as another English semi-literate ) . Before you talk about science , learn what it is and how it works . Science does not `` prove `` things . It explains them . Science is the investigation of natural phenomena through observation , theoretical explanation , and experimentation , or the knowledge produced by such investigation . How is it that you think that rocks that were once bones are not old . Are you not aware that fossils are not the preserved remains of organisms ? The organic materials have been replaced by minerals and they are rock . Ever actually see a fossil ? Ever actually hold one ?""",DISAGREE,"""no proof of it exists if the earth was [ sic ] millions of years old than [ sic ] there would be no fossils of dinosaurs and people and do n't say preseservative because they do n't last that long ill [ sic ] let you think about that""","""Can you say run-on sentence ? `` How is it that you think that rocks that were once bones are not old Are you not aware that fossils are not the preserved remains of organisms ?""",,
35818,9376,"""And the risk to minority 's civil rights is , of course , the reason for the bill .""","""And yet they also claim other reasons ... fraud and $ , which I was addressing .""",DISAGREE,"""And the risk to minority 's civil rights is , of course , the reason for the bill .""","""And yet they also claim other reasons ... fraud and $ , which I was addressing .""",,
35826,9377,"""It is a direct accusation by the CURATOR OF BIRDS for the SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION against all the proponents of the dino bird story .""","""Incorrect- I think Olsen is very specific in citing those he feels have overstepped the mark in this instance . He is not ruling out the possibility of a link at all- he ( rightly IMO ) is targeting certain workers and publications .""",DISAGREE,"""It is a direct accusation by the CURATOR OF BIRDS for the SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION against all the proponents of the dino bird story .""","""Incorrect- I think Olsen is very specific in citing those he feels have overstepped the mark in this instance . He is not ruling out the possibility of a link at all- he ( rightly IMO ) is targeting certain workers and publications .""",,
35853,9382,"""They go to hell because they do not ask for forgiveness from their sins . Anyone who asks for forgiveness and changes will not go to hell . They do not want to change their sinful ways . ( How many times to I have to repeat myself ? )""","""And HOW do you know that homosexuals do n't repent ?""",DISAGREE,"""They go to hell because they do not ask for forgiveness from their sins who asks for forgiveness and changes will not go to hell .""","""HOW do you know that homosexuals do n't repent ?""",,
35861,9384,"""I do n't believe that man and dinosaur walked the earth together . ( Although dragon legends are believed to be in part inspired by the discovery of dinosaur bones . )""","""And I 've been to Paluxy and I still do n't blieve that there are human tracks among the dinosaur tracks .""",AGREE,"""I do n't believe that man and dinosaur walked the earth together .""","""I still do n't blieve that there are human tracks among the dinosaur tracks .""",,
35870,9386,"""How far along was the pregnancy ? And why is Australia so backward in regard to women ?""","""And `` why is the United States so backward in regard to children 's rights to their lives ? ``""",DISAGREE,"""why is Australia so backward in regard to women ?""","""why is the United States so backward to children 's rights to their lives ?""",,
35872,9387,"""On a recent episode of Scare Tactics , just before the homicidal maniacs break down the car door and kill the victim , her response : `` Oh my God , Oh my God , Help , Help , do you have a cell phone , Oh my God , Oh my God . Do you have a cell phone ? `` First , such a prank will should never be played on a CCW holder . The response would be 3 shots : 2 to the body , 1 to the head . Instead of `` Help , Help , Help , Oh my God , Oh my God , Do you have a cell phone ? `` This happens every day . Except it is not a prank and there are no homicidal maniacs . A more typical scene is the same unarmed victim and a felon on parole .""","""So I guess we should all be armed with guns then . And if we XXXX someone off , feel the comfort of knowing that they have a gun and can blow our brains out whenever they want on the spot . Everyone grab a gun ! ! We dont have enough violence in the United States as it is ! And arm your children too ! ! Ignore the stories about children accidently shooting eachother .""",DISAGREE,"""a CCW holder . The would be 3 shots : 2 to the body , 1 to the head . Except it is not a prank and there are no homicidal maniacs . A more typical scene is the same unarmed victim and a felon on parole""","""So I guess we should all be armed with guns then . arm your children too ! ! Ignore the stories about children accidently shooting eachother .""",,
35871,9387,"""On a recent episode of Scare Tactics , just before the homicidal maniacs break down the car door and kill the victim , her response : `` Oh my God , Oh my God , Help , Help , do you have a cell phone , Oh my God , Oh my God . Do you have a cell phone ? `` First , such a prank will should never be played on a CCW holder . The response would be 3 shots : 2 to the body , 1 to the head . Instead of `` Help , Help , Help , Oh my God , Oh my God , Do you have a cell phone ? `` This happens every day . Except it is not a prank and there are no homicidal maniacs . A more typical scene is the same unarmed victim and a felon on parole .""","""So I guess we should all be armed with guns then . And if we XXXX someone off , feel the comfort of knowing that they have a gun and can blow our brains out whenever they want on the spot . Everyone grab a gun ! ! We dont have enough violence in the United States as it is ! And arm your children too ! ! Ignore the stories about children accidently shooting eachother .""",DISAGREE,"""such a prank will should never be played on a CCW holder . The response would be 3 shots : more typical scene is the same unarmed victim and a felon on parole .""","""guess we should all be armed with guns then . dont have enough violence in the United States as it is ! arm your children too ! !""",,
35878,9388,"""No . If he assisted in bringing the child into the world he is obligated to pay . That 's the law . The mother is under no obligation moral or legal to have an abortion . The father should have thought about it before he entered into this relationship . That 's the cost of being an adult .""","""I agree ... it 's just too bad sometimes with young adults they do n't think about what might happen , they just respond with natural urges . And this results sometimes is someone becoming `` with child `` even though it was not what they set out to do ! So should we force them to have the child and put it up for adoption ? If so consider there are lots of children waiting to be taken in and most of them are n't infants .""",AGREE,"""If he assisted in bringing the child into the world he is obligated to pay . That 's the law . The mother is under no obligation moral or legal to have an abortion .""","""So should we force them to have the child and put it up for adoption ? If so consider there are lots of children waiting to be taken in and most of them are n't infants .""",,
35879,9389,"""Some people wo n't read for themselves but condem others who do .""","""Yo shush yo mouth ! Doncha knows that tha bible is fo believahs ! Yas got ta believah furst ! That 's right , if you read it without believing first , you 'll see the flaws and contradictions . You need to magic indwelling spirit of Suspension of Disbelief to fully understand what they bibles about .""",AGREE,"""Some people wo n't read for themselves but condem others who do .""","""Doncha knows that tha bible is fo believahs !""",,
35894,9392,"""What problems exactly can be caused by gay marriages ?""","""I dunno . Perhaps more loving familes to adopt parentless children ? A larger tax base ? Less disease transfer ? Silly me , I forgot , those are GOOD things ! The antis keep saying that gay marriage leads to bad things , so obviously I classified such outcomes as bad .""",AGREE,"""What problems exactly can be caused by gay marriages ?""","""Perhaps more loving familes to adopt parentless children ? A larger tax base ? Less disease transfer ?""",,
35898,9393,"""Do n't be too sure of yourself because he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say .""","""Are you talking about Archie ? What do you know about his life ? What we can be sure of it that he is n't careful about telling the truth on this discussion board . Sometimes he says what he thinks is true because he has n't bothered to educate himself . At other times he tells intentional lies . Hey ! You two seem to be a lot alike .""",DISAGREE,"""Do n't be too sure of yourself because he 's said a lot more truthful things in his life than you could hope to say .""","""What we can be sure of it that he is n't careful about telling the truth on this discussion board .""",,
35911,9396,"""And I 've heard smiley represent a presumably large group of people who believe that they would beat up an attacker rather than shooting them .""","""Of course . The Kellerman study points out that a firearm is 43 times more likely to be used on its owner than in self defense . This is why it makes perfect sense to hand all our guns over to criminals . We can then take them away using Kung Fu and use them against their owners . ( According to Kellerman , we are guaranteed to be 43 times more successful that way . )""",AGREE,"""And I 've heard smiley represent a presumably believe that they would beat up an attacker rather than shooting them .""","""This is why it makes perfect sense to hand all our guns over to criminals . them away using Kung Fu and use them against their owners .""",,
35929,9400,"""Then there 's that state thaht wants to remove the use of BC and AD from the calendar . I guess they 'll change it to some neutral like plus and minus numbers just to stay with the rest of the world .... or maybe 2005 will change to 133,956,373,278 .""","""actually , the more common usage would be CE . and BCE ( COmmon era , and before common era )""",AGREE,"""Then there 's that state thaht wants to remove the use of BC and AD from the calendar . I guess they 'll change it to some neutral like plus and minus numbers just to stay with the rest of the world""","""actually , the more common usage would be CE . and BCE""",,
35978,9417,"""Babys are the outcome of sex , If you do n't want a baby , do n't have sex ! ! ! ! ! !""","""I only wish it were so simple .""",DISAGREE,"""If you do n't want a baby , do n't have sex ! ! ! ! ! !""","""I only wish it were so simple .""",,
35985,9418,"""`` Results . After adjustment , individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 ( P < .05 ) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession . Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist , this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 ( P < .05 ) . Conclusions . On average , guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault . Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year , the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas . Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or , at least , understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures. `` http : //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane Not owning a gun makes me safer and two cherry picked 911 calls does not disprove that .""","""You put your faith in 911 , I 'll put mine in 9mm . While I would call 911 I 'll still arm myself first , to make sure I 'm still around if and when the cops get here , if they so choose .""",DISAGREE,"""individuals in possession of a gun were more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession . guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault .""","""I would call 911 I 'll still arm myself first , to make sure I 'm still around if and when the cops get here , if they so choose .""",,
36017,9421,"""-Julian Bond , Board Chairman , NAACP""","""Actually , the old Black Codes were made useless by the 14th amendment and did more good for the Black movement and civil rights workers who could then protect themselves . Last time I saw the NAACP and Black Panthers was in Houston and the streets were lined with BP armed with AK 47s so I think your quote by Julian Bond is a mite off base Of course we know you would never stoop to deceive""",DISAGREE,"""Bond , Board Chairman , NAACP""","""old Black Codes were made useless by the 14th amendment and did more good for the Black movement and civil rights workers who could then protect themselves .""",,
36036,9425,"""No , it 's not wrong . You all kill human beings everyday , so what is this whole thing with the humans ' right to life ? Someone please explain this to me . Why not kill ?""","""Because it could be you next .""",DISAGREE,"""You all kill human beings everyday""","""Because it could be you next .""",,
36046,9428,"""And now , we 've had a chance to watch Republican men shouting down women Democratic representatives during a health care debate , as the women spoke about women 's health care issues , and as if they were throwing eggs at suffragettes marching ( or rather , having a tantrum in their high chairs ? ) .""","""Hey - there 's plenty of disordered liberal Democrat women badgering conservative men and women tea party participants . Including the head mistress , Nancy Pelosi and all her sychophants . At least we 're on the right side of the issues , trying to shoot down another big-government , bureaucratic , wallet-busting , job-killing , liberty-gutting abortion . What all pro-abortion pundits have in common : THEIR MOTHERS ALL CHOSE LIFE !""",DISAGREE,"""we 've had a chance to watch Republican men shouting down women Democratic representatives""","""there 's plenty of disordered liberal Democrat women badgering conservative men and women tea party participants . Including the head mistress""",,
36067,9435,"""Instead of running your filthy little immature foul mouth , why do n't you tell me how protein survives for 68 million years ?""","""So when you know you have lost , you resort to insult ? Is that how this goes ? What was either filthy or immature about obvious_child 's post ?""",DISAGREE,"""why do n't you tell me how protein survives for 68 million years ?""","""So when you know you have lost , you resort to insult ?""",,
36073,9444,"""Homosexuals are attracted to adults of the same sex . Pedophiles are attracted exclusively to children . There are people , such as the case with these priests , who molest children , who are not pedophiles . Molestation , like rape , is n't about sexual attraction . It is VIOLENCE . People do n't molest or rape because they are so turned on they ca n't help themselves , they do it to HURT somebody . Get some information before shooting off at the mouth VOR . Most of those priests were probably niether gay nor pedophiles . I HATE IT - when people spread this * * * * . It is FALSE information that does nothing but HARM . It puts blame on the innocent while the guilty get ignored and children get hurt . Do not use this lie to justify your bigotry - for you do so at the cost of innocent people - adults and children .""","""Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex whether they be adults are children ............. The vast majority of the priests who were charged admitted to being gay ............""",DISAGREE,"""Homosexuals are attracted to adults of the same sex . Pedophiles are attracted exclusively to children .""","""Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex whether they be adults are children""",,
36081,9445,"""Oh , and , sorry Phyllis , but these ones ARE very clearly abortion .""","""Well , I have disagreed . But supposing that you are right ( and you are not as I have shown ) , then you have successfully shown that abortion is frowned upon in Scripture . The verses you quote ALL describe the actions in those verses negatively . Congratulations , you proved what you were trying to disprove .""",DISAGREE,"""Oh , and , sorry Phyllis , but these ones ARE very clearly abortion .""","""Well , I have But supposing that you are right then you have successfully shown that abortion is frowned upon in Scripture .""",,
36096,9448,"""I meant a decision that the majority of the population has made in regards to legislation .""","""I know what you meant . My comment was to demonstrate the counter side of the issue . Interracial marriage laws were overturned at a time when this country disapproved of interracial marriage by a margin of three to one . By your approach , interracial marriage laws SHOULD NOT have been overturned in the 1960 's . In fact , by your approach we still would have had illegal interracial marriage into the late 80 's , early 90 's . The 14th amendment makes no proviso about allowing unjust discrimination in cases of majority rule . By your approach , WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT ? If the majority disapproves of the discrimination , they simply `` vote `` it out of existence . No need for the courts at all .""",DISAGREE,"""I meant a decision that the majority of the population has made in regards to legislation .""","""I know what you meant . My comment was to demonstrate the counter side of the issue . Interracial marriage laws were overturned at a time when this country disapproved of interracial marriage""",,
36095,9448,"""I meant a decision that the majority of the population has made in regards to legislation .""","""I know what you meant . My comment was to demonstrate the counter side of the issue . Interracial marriage laws were overturned at a time when this country disapproved of interracial marriage by a margin of three to one . By your approach , interracial marriage laws SHOULD NOT have been overturned in the 1960 's . In fact , by your approach we still would have had illegal interracial marriage into the late 80 's , early 90 's . The 14th amendment makes no proviso about allowing unjust discrimination in cases of majority rule . By your approach , WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT ? If the majority disapproves of the discrimination , they simply `` vote `` it out of existence . No need for the courts at all .""",DISAGREE,"""I meant a decision that the majority of the population has made in regards to legislation .""","""I know what you meant . My comment was to demonstrate the counter side of the ``""",,
36112,9451,"""Playing devils advocate . But statistically you may kill me in the future with your gun . You have to give up your rights now . Your violating my rights . ( Although I know you are and I ca n't name the right nor find the right in the Constitution )""","""Oh my goodness , yes . I had forgotten that scenario . How silly of me .""",DISAGREE,"""Playing devils advocate""","""How silly of me .""",,
36116,9451,"""Playing devils advocate . But statistically you may kill me in the future with your gun . You have to give up your rights now . Your violating my rights . ( Although I know you are and I ca n't name the right nor find the right in the Constitution )""","""Oh my goodness , yes . I had forgotten that scenario . How silly of me .""",DISAGREE,"""the future with your gun .""","""silly of me .""",,
36118,9452,"""As to HOW thought or awareness generates a new phenotypic trait , well first you need to show that thought or awareness DOES generate a new phenotypic trait . THEN you can begin to elucidate a mechanism . Till you show the effect you need to explain by a mechanism you have nothing to explain . .""","""so in order for me to win this debate I have to explain how thoughts turn into physical realities ? C'mmon . That 's what 's so damaging about these types of experiements ... such as the one with the spine-developing flea . You stick a predator near a bug or other creature , and amazingly new morphology develops -- either during development or even later in life . Snails , for example can grow larger when predators are around . Lots of things are like that . Fish , for example , in small fish tanks have a tendency to stay small , while the same type fish in very big tanks get much bigger . Thus , something inside the organism is putting the brakes on growth . But what is it ? Just because I can not point to this particular entity does not mean it does n't exist -- the evidence is right there in front of you that external stimuli is physically acted upon by the organism -- probably by way of a nervous system response . This is why science has forever ignored doing experiments on animals by changing their locations and checking for responsive , heritable phenotypic adjustments . They simply do not want to have to confront the notion that life changes non-materialistically -- that thought or awareness can start the process of physical change .... that there are causes to biological change . This concept of mind over matter is simply unexplainable by science because science is not interested in the mind -- or anything else that can not be measured or defined . If I raise my arm and then claim that there was a thought-command before hand , how would I ever prove to you that there was indeed a thought-command that caused the arm to raise ?""",DISAGREE,"""HOW thought or awareness generates a new phenotypic trait , well first you need to show that thought or""","""science has forever ignored doing experiments on animals by changing their locations and checking for""",,
36125,9453,"""I am not sure were it is in his book if it is in his book at all it may be in his diary . And It may have been in a earlier version . And since you say that the 6th edition is the definitive one well ok .""","""Actually , you are still quibbling . First , after I told you that you were wrong you came up with the `` it may be in his diary `` bit . Later it has moved to an earlier version of OTOOS . The answer is quite simple . NOPE . I searched through The LIfe and Letters of Charles Darwin , vol I & amp ; II , More Letters of Charles Darwin , vol I & amp ; II , On the Origin of Species , 1st and 6th editions , The Autobiography of Charles Darwin , and The Voyage of the Beagle . None even contain the word `` microbiology `` . Darwin made several references to microscopes and his use of them . He had one on the Beagle . But nowhere does any of that discussion refer to the impossibility of his theory . Maybe you would be so kind as to tell me where you had access to Darwin 's diary . Or maybe you either made up that assertion or were just an ignorant dupe of someone like Hovind making a claim like that . Where did it come from .""",DISAGREE,"""his book if it is in his book at all it may be in his diary""","""may be in his diary""",,
36138,9456,"""That 's true , but how much have we actually learned , and how much have we theorized , with an atheist presupposition , the only presupposition currently allowed ?""","""Again , you are the affirmative , you must support your claims . Please support the claim that we are using an atheist presupposition . I think we are using more an agnostic presupposition , which is a neutral one .""",DISAGREE,"""That 's true , but how much have we actually learned , and how much have we theorized , with an atheist presupposition ,""","""Again , you are the affirmative , you must support your claims . Please support the claim that we are using an atheist presupposition .""",,
36181,9485,"""Based on what ? You admit there were 800,000 abortions performed in 1973 but yet if you dared to check the fertility rate between 1972 to 1973 it is nearly static ; meaning there were just as many people giving birth before and after Roe . Surely , 800,000 potential births being aborted would have cut the fertility rate sharpely but it did n't . You do n't have to be a rocket-scientist to speculate what this means ; that just as many women were having abortions between 1972 - 1973 and Roe v Wade only changed who was performing these abortions ... not whether people were having them or not .""","""so a 200,000 or 20 % decrease in abortions happened because abortion became legal ? Where is your rocket-science skills on that one ? Aside from the actual numbers not being known , the experts still state that it probably was n't as high as many abortions activists claim . http : //www.forerunner.com/forerunner ... thout_Roe.html""",DISAGREE,"""Surely , 800,000 potential births being aborted would have cut the fertility rate sharpely""","""Where is your rocket-science skills on that one ? Aside from the actual numbers not being known""",,
36186,9486,"""Do you disagree that The inheritance of acquired characteristics is simply changes in physiology acquired over the life of an organism that are transmitted to offspring ?""","""That definition is n't what I 'm disagreeing with I 'm just pointing out why it 's not happening here . Retroviruses , as I said , open up some very interesting possibilities . I 'm not aware of any conclusive research taking place - I know the immune system makes use of them but I do n't think there 's any evidence of immunity being passed down in that way : early mothers ' milk is the mechanism for that ( packed with a payload of antibodies to prime the infant 's immune system ) . To be honest , I think the existence of that system rather stomps on the plausibility of Lamarckian inheritance ; why bother going to all that trouble if the parent could simply code immunity into the genes it passes to its offspring ?""",DISAGREE,"""Do you disagree that The inheritance of acquired characteristics is simply changes in physiology acquired over the life of an organism that are transmitted to offspring ?""","""To be honest , I think the existence of that system rather stomps on the plausibility of Lamarckian inheritance ;""",,
36192,9487,"""Each side tries to support their own worldview . There are two positions , and sides are chosen . It 's human nature . Yes . I can only speak for myself - winning converts is what the Bible suggests , but I do n't believe in doing it in a forceable way . I do n't believe one person / one event wins a convert all at once , it takes a combination of many tiny little steps ( examples ) to win converts . My main reason for posting here is political . I do n't believe it 's possible to have neutrality in government . If church & amp ; state are separated , atheism and state are combined . Atheism almost always equals secular `` progression `` , and Judeo Christianity almost always equals tradition , according to unchanging Biblical morals . The two quickly clash in politics . Also , I do n't believe future generations ( school children ) are having the gaps in godless evolution explained to them clearly enough . I enjoy written debates very much , and I 'm trying to show how evolution can establish atheism in the U.S. government , in violation of the text of the First Amendment and intent of the framers . I believe there has to be a God because I see no compelling evidence that life spontaneously generated from non living chemicals . I was brought up without anyone forcing me what to believe , and went to church occasionally . My church attendance did n't get very regular until my late twenties - about twenty years ago . A few Bible studies , comparing it to the flow of events , the nature of people , my shortcomings , the shortcomings of science etc , convinced me . Though it does n't really say why , the Bible says that is what will happen . See Matthew 7 :13,14 . It 's part of God 's plan . Free will .""","""Very well said , but remember , Evolution doesnt mean atheism , but creationism means religion . I know Christians that believe in evolution , but i dont know atheists that believe in creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""winning converts is what the Bible suggests , but I do n't believe in doing it in a forceable way .""","""Very well said , but remember , Evolution doesnt mean atheism , but creationism means religion .""",,
36191,9487,"""Each side tries to support their own worldview . There are two positions , and sides are chosen . It 's human nature . Yes . I can only speak for myself - winning converts is what the Bible suggests , but I do n't believe in doing it in a forceable way . I do n't believe one person / one event wins a convert all at once , it takes a combination of many tiny little steps ( examples ) to win converts . My main reason for posting here is political . I do n't believe it 's possible to have neutrality in government . If church & amp ; state are separated , atheism and state are combined . Atheism almost always equals secular `` progression `` , and Judeo Christianity almost always equals tradition , according to unchanging Biblical morals . The two quickly clash in politics . Also , I do n't believe future generations ( school children ) are having the gaps in godless evolution explained to them clearly enough . I enjoy written debates very much , and I 'm trying to show how evolution can establish atheism in the U.S. government , in violation of the text of the First Amendment and intent of the framers . I believe there has to be a God because I see no compelling evidence that life spontaneously generated from non living chemicals . I was brought up without anyone forcing me what to believe , and went to church occasionally . My church attendance did n't get very regular until my late twenties - about twenty years ago . A few Bible studies , comparing it to the flow of events , the nature of people , my shortcomings , the shortcomings of science etc , convinced me . Though it does n't really say why , the Bible says that is what will happen . See Matthew 7 :13,14 . It 's part of God 's plan . Free will .""","""Very well said , but remember , Evolution doesnt mean atheism , but creationism means religion . I know Christians that believe in evolution , but i dont know atheists that believe in creationism .""",DISAGREE,"""Each side tries to support their own worldview . There are two positions , and sides are chosen .""","""Very well said , but remember , Evolution doesnt mean atheism , but creationism means religion .""",,
36204,9489,"""I dont get it . This must only make sense to you , Peddler eight eleventy one""","""Often that screen name is taken-Peddler-out of habit I attach a number to it .""",AGREE,"""This must only make sense to you""","""Often that screen name is""",,
36208,9490,"""Actually , there is , my poor addle-minded friend . Indeed , you can argue that she was even exercising her responsibility as a citizen with more civic-mindedness than many because she non-violently and patiently refused to sign the ticket . She has a right not to sign .""","""Again you focus on irrelevant minutia in the hope of making excuses and justifying the actions of someone who was clearly in the wrong . Here again is what the Judges said in their ruling , one being a fellow woman whom you are calling a racist , and it does n't bode well for your law suit partial criminal : But in a 2-1 ruling Friday , a panel of the 9th U.S . Circuit Court of Appeals disagreed . Judges Cynthia Holcomb Hall and Diarmuid F. O'Scannlain held that the officers were justified in making an arrest because Brooks was obstructing them and resisting arrest . The use of force was also justified because of the threat Brooks posed , Hall wrote : `` It seems clear that Brooks was not going to be able to harm anyone with her car at a moment 's notice . Nonetheless , some threat she might retrieve the keys and drive off erratically remained , particularly given her refusal to leave the car and her state of agitation. ``""",DISAGREE,"""there is , my poor addle-minded friend . Indeed , you can argue that she was even exercising her responsibility as a citizen with more civic-mindedness""","""she might retrieve the keys and drive off erratically remained , particularly given her refusal to""",,
36221,9492,"""This is clearly the worst one . Mr. Harvey shows his ignorance and dislike of science .""","""So what if he dislikes science ? If he believes something else , he has the right to believe that way . My problem here is that he shows more closed-mindedness to the viewpoints of others .""",DISAGREE,"""This is clearly the worst one . Mr. Harvey shows his ignorance and dislike of science .""","""So what if he dislikes science ? If he believes something else , he has the right to believe that way""",,
36231,9503,"""There is good evidence of a very large flood in the middle east , however . This would have been the whole world to the Bible writiers - and certainly those who actually knew Yaweh .""","""Let 's hear more . Remember ; it is estimated that over 6 billion people were on earth at the time of the flood . Also , Genesis 1 : 6 thru 1 : 10 - Water was above and below the firmament of Heaven . What happened to the waters that were above the firmament ? Was this used for the deluge that covered the earth ? It had never rained before The Flood . Why , if someone made up this story , would they have said such a thing ? Would n't it be much more believeable if they would have said , `` There had never been such a rain as this ... `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""There is good evidence of a very large flood in the middle east , however . This would have been the whole world to the Bible writiers""","""Let 's hear more . Remember ; it is estimated that over 6 billion people were on earth at the time of the flood . Also , Genesis 1 : 6 thru 1 : 10""",,
36246,9515,"""If I want to kill somebody , why should that be wrong ?""","""Because you are disrupting social order and infringing on another person 's rights .""",DISAGREE,"""why should that be wrong ?""","""Because you are disrupting social order""",,
36251,9516,"""Genesis 19:24-25 24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens . 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain , including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land .""","""This is obviously not talking about abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain , including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land .""","""This is obviously not talking about abortion .""",,
36259,9518,"""* * Duh ! ! If someone slipped LSD into water , would you `` just ignore [ it ] and go on working as before `` ? What if you slipped and broke your leg , would you `` just ignore it and ... `` ?""","""Very weak analogies . Your position has been that 'mechanistic ' models of DNA expression are fundamentally wrong . The success of genetic modification ( of bacteria and of eukaryotic organisms ) provides strong support for their being fundamentally sound . But wabbit , how come I 'm privileged with a reply ? I thought I was on ignore , along with anyone else who knows what they 're talking about .""",DISAGREE,"""What if you slipped and broke your leg , would you `` just ignore it and ... `` ?""","""Very weak analogies . Your position has been that 'mechanistic ' models of DNA expression are fundamentally wrong .""",,
36271,9520,"""My point was to ask you a question . Why do you call it revisionist history ?""","""Your implication that dropping crime rates has anything to do with the AWB ....""",DISAGREE,"""Why do you call it revisionist history ?""","""Your implication that dropping crime rates has anything to do with the AWB""",,
36268,9520,"""My point was to ask you a question . Why do you call it revisionist history ?""","""Your implication that dropping crime rates has anything to do with the AWB ....""",DISAGREE,"""Why do you call it revisionist""","""has anything to do with the AWB ....""",,
36280,9521,"""this is terrible . Kansas should have kept how it was instead of teaching the beleif of evolution like it was a fact when it is jst a theory and a beleif system of atheirsts""","""More people actuallysupport the FSM school of creationsim - would you agree that this could be a suitable compromise ?""",AGREE,"""Kansas should have kept how it was instead of teaching the beleif of evolution""","""More people actuallysupport the FSM school of creationsim""",,
36305,9524,"""Actually , there 's a birth every 8 seconds , and a death every 11 seconds , which means the population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year ... so , even with those aborted babies , the world would NOT be overpopulated .""","""Please read carefully . He was talking about the US population , not the world . The initial post was NOT detailing population control but bringing up the issue of resource allocation and parenting .""",DISAGREE,"""the world would NOT be overpopulated""","""He was talking about the US population , not the world . The initial post was NOT detailing population control""",,
36312,9524,"""Actually , there 's a birth every 8 seconds , and a death every 11 seconds , which means the population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year ... so , even with those aborted babies , the world would NOT be overpopulated .""","""Please read carefully . He was talking about the US population , not the world . The initial post was NOT detailing population control but bringing up the issue of resource allocation and parenting .""",DISAGREE,"""there 's a birth every 8 seconds death every 11 seconds population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year overpopulated""","""talking about the US population post was NOT detailing population control resource allocation and parenting""",,
36303,9524,"""Actually , there 's a birth every 8 seconds , and a death every 11 seconds , which means the population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year ... so , even with those aborted babies , the world would NOT be overpopulated .""","""Please read carefully . He was talking about the US population , not the world . The initial post was NOT detailing population control but bringing up the issue of resource allocation and parenting .""",DISAGREE,"""population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year ... so , even with those aborted babies""","""detailing population control but bringing up the issue of resource allocation and parenting .""",,
36309,9524,"""Actually , there 's a birth every 8 seconds , and a death every 11 seconds , which means the population of the earth grows less than 1 % each year ... so , even with those aborted babies , the world would NOT be overpopulated .""","""Please read carefully . He was talking about the US population , not the world . The initial post was NOT detailing population control but bringing up the issue of resource allocation and parenting .""",DISAGREE,"""there 's a birth every 8 seconds , and a death every 11 seconds ,""","""He was talking about the US population""",,
36339,9527,"""Most scientists agree that there needs to be a sufficiently developed cerebral cortex in order for pain to be registered as such . The cerebral cortex is not sufficiently developed enough in the fetus to feel pain until roughly the start of the third trimester . Otherwise , the movements of an early fetus or embryo away from a stimulus are simply reflex action . Those of you who might have disected a frog in biology class in High School might have experienced it yourself when seeing the leg of a newly dead frog move under stimulus . For the novice , it may appear to be a reaction to a felt pain but it is not . Here is one link to a comprehensive study on fetal pain made by the American Medical Association : http : //jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947""","""GULLIBLE TREATMENT OF TRUMPED UP `` STUDY `` ON FETAL PAIN ISSUE SHOULD EMBARRASS J.A.M.A . AND SOME JOURNALISTS This memo offers a number of points of information regarding the article `` Fetal Pain : A Systematic Multidisciplinary Review of the Evidence , `` published in the August 24 edition of the Journal of the American Medical Association ( JAMA ) . Any of the material below , if not otherwise attributed , can be attributed to NRLC Legislative Director Douglas Johnson ( Legfederal @ aol.com ) , who prepared this memorandum . See this here : http : //www.nrlc.org/abortion/Fetal_P ... uttalJAMA.html The following excerpt is from : http : //abort73.com/HTML/I-A-2a-pain.html `` Sir Albert Lilley , widely considered the `` Father of Fetology `` , and unabashedly pro-life ( as anyone with his vast knowledge of fetal development should be ) makes some remarkable statements about fetal pain in an interview he conducted for the book The Tiniest Humans . Question : In the case of an 8- to-10-week fetus , if you apply pressure will it tend to try to get out of the way ? Answer : Normally it would be extremely difficult , apart from putting a foreign instrument or needle into the uterus to apply pressure , but with a fetus at that maturity you have a very small fetus in a larger capsule of fluid . However , as the famous work of Dr. Davenport Hooker shows , in his many thousands of feet of film , babies at this maturity are responsive to touch . The fetus also responds violently to painful stimuli-needle puncture and injection of cold or of hypertonic solutions- stimuli which you and I find painful , children will tell you are painful , and the neonate , to judge from his responses , finds painful . -- - I have been told by advocates of abortion that we have no proof that the fetus actually feels pain . Strictly , they are quite correct . Pain is a peculiarly personal and subjective experience and there is no biochemical or physiological test we can do to tell that anyone is in pain - a phenomenon which makes it very easy to bear other people 's pain stoically , which is an important point for obstetricians to remember . By the same token we lack any proof that animals feel pain . However , to judge from their responses , it seems charitable to assume they do . Were this not so there would be no point in having an organization like the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals , and I for one would be unhappy to think we would withhold from the human fetus a charitable consideration we were prepared to extend to animals . Question : The question , then , of pain felt by the fetus - it is your personal opinion , I gather from what you say in your paper , that in effect the fetus does feel pain ? Answer : I can only say that the fetus responds violently to stimuli that you and I would find painful . Bertrand Russell once remarked that a fisherman had told him that fish had neither sense or sensation , but how he knew that the fisherman would not tell him. `` The following excerpt is from : http : //www.theinterim.com/2000/nov/21fetalpain.html `` Dr . Glover 's research in the area of fetal pain is hardly groundbreaking . Sir Albert W. Liley , the pre-eminent fetologist from New Zealand , had no doubt , on the basis of objective evidence , that the fetus has a capacity to feel pain . In 1963 , Dr. Liley , the founder of fetology , developed the first surgical technique for administering intrauterine blood transfusions to the fetus . According to Liley , the fetus feels pain as early as three months . In offering instructions for carrying out the surgical technique of fetal blood transfusions , he advised his colleagues to take into serious consideration this fact of fetal pain . During the actual surgical procedure , the child must be sedated and given pain-relieving medication . Dr. Margaret Liley , wife and assistant to her husband , and a distinguished fetologist and pediatrician in her own right , remarks in her well-known book , Modern Motherhood : When doctors first began invading the sanctuary of the womb , they did not know that the unborn baby would react to pain in the same fashion as a child would . But they soon learned that he would . By no means a  ‘ vegetable ' as he has so often been pictured , the unborn knows perfectly well when he has been hurt , and he will protest it just as violently as would a baby in a crib . In referring to aborting a 12-week-old fetus by dilatation and curettage , ( in which the neck of the womb is dilated and the fetus removed in pieces after the womb has been scraped by a sharp instrument called a curette ) , Dr. Eugene Diamond stated in 1971 : `` When this procedure is done , there is little doubt that the fetus , in fact , feels what is done to it. `` In a comprehensive treatment of fetal pain , published in 1985 in the New England Journal of Medicine , Dr. K. Annand , a Harvard physiologist , stated that the fetus first perceives pain as early as 12 weeks . In a May 1975 piece in Atlantic , Willard Gaylin and Marc Lappe argue for fetal experimentation , which they contend is far less traumatic for the unborn than certain forms of abortion . If society allows a child in the womb to be subjected to `` unimaginable acts of violence , `` they write , such as `` dismemberment , salt-induced osmotic shock , or surgical extirpation , `` how can it balk at fetal experimentation , most forms of which are incomparably more benign . Fetal pain , of course , is a matter of fact , not ideology . Science , of course , should be based on fact , not political correctness . We live in a Therapeutic Culture in which popping pills has become a national pastime . We are only too sensitive about pain , inconvenience , and possibly offending someone . Yet our own ultra-sensitivity to pain does not , in general , extend to the unborn . Are we inconsistent in our war against pain ? Is there a blatant contradiction that runs through the very heart of our Therapeutic Culture ? The answer to this apparent dilemma lies in the fact that there are different levels of pain . Pain exists on a spiritual as well as on a physical level . Of the two , as many psychologists and psychiatrists have averred , the spiritual kind is more difficult to bear . The difference between the two is akin to the difference between pain and suffering . The suffering in one 's soul that can arise from humiliation , guilt , despair , and terror , are formidable . An athlete would rather risk breaking his neck driving for a fly ball than feel the humiliation of being called a wimp . A soldier would rather risk injury and even death , than suffer the shame of dishonor . A Christian would rather mortify himself than experience the disgrace that comes with mortal sin . Defeat , dishonor , disgrace , as a rule , are far more devastating than physical pain . There is a pain that goes with being egregiously wrong ( shame ) or being recklessly immoral ( disgrace ) or being purposely obtuse ( humiliation ) that is more acute than physical pain . Our Therapeutic Culture is not inconsistent . Those who promote abortion want to spare themselves the pain that goes with suffering shame , disgrace , and humiliation . Because of that , they are willing to deny the pain that the aborted baby feels . To acknowledge what abortion really means is too painful for them . They would rather retreat into the presumed security of their comforting ideology . Pain and birth go together in a mysterious way , like death and life , fall and redemption . The birth of a child or the rebirth of an adult requires a certain amount of pain . Birth and redemption both demand pain . Abortion was instituted in an attempt to avoid pain . But it has magnified the very thing it had sought to reduce . We are drowning in a sea of tranquilizers while we increase our suffering . We thought we could eliminate physical suffering , but brought about spiritual torment . The abortion issue , like an ellipse , has two foci : one is the birth of the child ( which is accompanied by pain ) ; the other , the rebirth of the pro-abortionist ( which is accompanied by suffering ) . Part of the painful truth about the abortion issue is that it includes both the unborn and the unrepentant. `` Dr. DeMarco is a professor of philosophy at St. Jerome 's University in Waterloo , Ont .""",DISAGREE,"""Most scientists agree that there needs to be a sufficiently developed cerebral cortex in order for pain to be registered as such .""","""I have been told by advocates of abortion that we have no proof that the fetus actually feels pain . Strictly , they are quite correct""",,
36343,9528,"""added C02 will be boon for flora""","""The temperature increase will hamper growth about as much as the CO2 increase will help it . Looking at it from an economic perspective climate change on the scale that the greenhouse effect is causing will do nothing good .""",DISAGREE,"""added C02 will be boon for flora""","""Looking at it from an economic perspective climate change on the scale that the greenhouse effect is causing will do nothing good .""",,
36353,9529,"""Huh ? how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention not an argument for divine intervention ?""","""By which divine entity ?""",DISAGREE,"""how is disproving the best explanation scientists can come up with for the diversity of life without divine intervention""","""By which divine entity ?""",,
36362,9531,"""Ah so , the extremely biased right wing rag owned by cult leader Sun Myung Moon , founder of the Unification Church cult which believes that Moon is the Christ .""","""It 's been reported in the Telegraph as well as several other news outlets . Want to slander them as well or do you want to try to disprove their story based on its content . I suggest the former , because the University has already confirmed the authenticity of the e-mails and documents .""",DISAGREE,"""which believes that Moon is the Christ .""","""disprove their story based on its content""",,
36369,9532,"""That would have been alot differant then having intercourse , see that you are pregnant , and aborting it . At least if they decided to have intercourse later , I would still have had a chance to born .""","""No , you would n't have . I 'd have a better chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket .""",DISAGREE,"""At least if they decided to have intercourse later , I would still have had a chance to born .""","""No , you would n't have .""",,
36382,9534,"""the child in the womb feels pain .. when you put the needle up there to try to give the child anestesia in the womb , the child moves away to not get stuck by the needle . Its because it feels pain .. this is after 18 weeks . this is a child in the womb ..""","""The VAST majority of abortions are performed within the first trimester . When they are performed in the second trimester it 's a serious procedure for the mother to go through , and is something she obviously would n't go into lightly . Her reasons for choosing an abortion as late as that would have to far outweigh anything else , and she would need consent from two doctors to go ahead with it . Basically what I 'm trying to say is something like the foetus being developed enough to feel pain would not change the mind of a woman who had just found out she was pregnant and she 'd been raped , or was going through something you ca n't understand . For an abortion that late she 'd have to deliver the foetus anyway , which is traumatising enough .""",DISAGREE,"""the child in the womb feels pain .. when you put the needle up there to try to give the child anestesia in the womb , the child moves away to not get stuck by the needle""","""The VAST majority of abortions are performed within the first trimester . When they are performed in the second trimester it 's a serious procedure for the mother to go through , and is something she obviously would n't go into lightly .""",,
36403,9538,"""such are the lying , two faced , deceitful , and sneaky ways of the NRA and gun nuts ..""","""So joining the Brady Campaign is deceitful ?""",DISAGREE,"""the lying , two faced , deceitful , and sneaky ways of the NRA and gun nuts""","""joining the Brady Campaign is deceitful ?""",,
36430,9543,"""And since they each orgnansim is constructed in a way that all are physically equally able to breed , then the process of who breeds is essentially a random process .""","""Not all `` orgnansims `` are able to breed . Some are sterile ( mules or ones with mutations ) , some die in the `` lottery `` ( which is biased against certain traits ) , and some simply breed less ( those who ca n't get as much food , for example ) .""",DISAGREE,"""each orgnansim is constructed in a way that all are physically equally able to breed""","""Not all `` orgnansims `` are able to breed .""",,
36450,9550,""" “ Gun Laws of America is 384 pages of just the federal statutes that regulate guns—more than 88,000 words . Additionally , the associated federal regulations interpreting these laws are even larger . Minimum penalty for a violation is typically 5 years in federal prison for every offense . It is estimated that there are between 22,000 and 30,000 gun laws on the books in America . Those laws include restrictions on possession , carry , distribution , storage , transfer , manufacture , sale , ownership , importation , use and more .""","""So if we were to actually do a true compromise , and not a Constitutional Compromise with the 2nd Amendment haters , most of all of this above would have to go ! However , that is NOT at all what THEY mean ! What they mean give me half of the Constitutionally Recognized as protected Inalienable Rights they have not taken from you yet ! Then after you have done the reasonable thing , ( In their reckless unconstitutional minds ) then they will ask you to compromise yet again , and again , and again , and again , and again and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again , and again . Well , you get the picture !""",DISAGREE,"""Those laws include restrictions on possession , carry , distribution , storage , transfer , manufacture , sale , ownership , importation , use and more .""","""Then after you have done the reasonable thing , ( In their reckless unconstitutional minds ) then they will ask you to compromise yet again , and again""",,
36477,9555,"""If it came from nothing , how do you explain that ?""","""Well , scientists in the appropriate fields of science are working on that . I 'm not a cosmologist so I rely on scientists in those fields to research those questions . I 'm a biologist . I deal with questions of biology , that is living organisms . That is why I am concerned with how living organisms change through time . In other words , that is why I am concerned with evolution . While physicists , cosmologists , geologists and so on may accept evolutionary theory , that does n't mean that their fields of science are `` evolution. ``""",DISAGREE,"""If it came from nothing , how do you explain that ?""","""scientists in the appropriate fields of science are working on that I 'm not a cosmologist so I rely on scientists in those fields to research those questions .""",,
36508,9562,"""Dear Supersport , This will be my one and only post to this message board . It is my research you are falsely using to support your arguments . Please do not reference my work in this way in the future . Your interpretation of the plastic responses of tadpoles to chemicals produced by predators is false . Much research ( not my own , look for research by Robert Denver ) has shown that chemicals in the water produced by predators when feeding on prey , or changing environments in general , activate pathways in the body which in turn lead to increased tail size and differentiation of color . It has nothing to do with the tadpoles `` desire `` to have a larger or redder tail , it is simply a physiological response . The tadpoles have not `` evolved `` during the course of their development , as you assert . An induced phenotype is not heritable , the ability to induce it is . The tadpoles with the red tails will not produce red tailed tadpoles when they are adults . Those with clear tails will not produce clear tailed tadpoles . They will both produce tadpoles that have the ability to make either phenotype . -Justin""","""Moral : Do not feed the troll . He ca n't see beyond his preconceptions and wo n't understand what you say . You probably have better things to do .""",AGREE,"""It is my research you are falsely using to support your arguments . Please do not reference my work in this way in the future . Your interpretation of the plastic responses of tadpoles to chemicals produced by predators is false""","""Do not feed the troll . He ca n't see beyond his preconceptions""",,
36513,9563,"""I 'm really looking forward to your providing of this . Until then , you are n't worth my time , strawman .""","""It helps to know what a strawman is before you accuse someone of using it . Your argument is no different then the one I presented .""",DISAGREE,"""really looking forward to your providing of this . Until then , you are n't worth my time , strawman .""","""It helps to know what a strawman is before you accuse someone of using it .""",,
36514,9563,"""I 'm really looking forward to your providing of this . Until then , you are n't worth my time , strawman .""","""It helps to know what a strawman is before you accuse someone of using it . Your argument is no different then the one I presented .""",DISAGREE,"""Until then , you are n't worth my time , strawman .""","""It helps to know what a strawman is before you accuse someone of using it .""",,
36536,9565,"""in creating the feature depends upon the existence - the plentiful existence - of proximate intermediate features .""","""Well , that 's a bald assertion , and although it may even be true , I can not accept it at face value . You 'll have to take little time and explain to a non-scientist , amateur ontologist , just what it is that you intend that we should understand from these words , and why we should accept that understanding as true .""",DISAGREE,"""the feature depends upon the existence - the plentiful existence - of proximate intermediate features .""","""that we should understand from these words , and why we should accept that understanding as true .""",,
36542,9566,"""So easy to do in America , a nation which refuses to acknowledge the need for responsible gun ownership .""","""Well if it 's so easy then how about you provide the names of the dealers who 're selling howitzers and anti-aircraft missiles and fragmentation grenades ? And while you 're at it , supply the names of the companies who 're making them in violation of the various federal restrictions .""",DISAGREE,"""So easy to do in America , a nation which refuses to acknowledge the need for responsible gun ownership .""","""And while you 're at it , supply the names of the companies who 're making them in violation of the various federal restrictions .""",,
36557,9567,"""I would either put them in an institute to determine why they committed their crime ,""","""Some people commit crimes on accident , some do it for revenge , some do it out of fear , and some do it for fun .""",AGREE,"""I would either put them in an institute to determine""","""Some people commit crimes on accident , some do it for revenge""",,
36570,9568,"""Let 's assume such a asseration is correct . That if the majority wants something , that it is free to make any such laws , even if the strip specific individuals of any and all rights . Under your logic , you must therefore support any action by the majority that wants to tar , feather and quater any user who goes by the name of VTcruiser [ /b ]""","""Well , that is obsurd and you know it yourself .. If you are going to make arguments , at least make ones that matter .""",DISAGREE,"""Under your logic , you must therefore support any action by the majority that wants to tar , feather and quater any user who goes by the name of VTcruiser""","""Well , that is obsurd and you know it yourself""",,
36561,9568,"""Let 's assume such a asseration is correct . That if the majority wants something , that it is free to make any such laws , even if the strip specific individuals of any and all rights . Under your logic , you must therefore support any action by the majority that wants to tar , feather and quater any user who goes by the name of VTcruiser [ /b ]""","""Well , that is obsurd and you know it yourself .. If you are going to make arguments , at least make ones that matter .""",DISAGREE,"""your logic , you must therefore support any action by the majority that wants to tar , feather and quater any user who goes by the name of VTcruiser""","""that is If you are going to make arguments , at least make ones that""",,
36580,9569,"""Regardless , any decision that holds that something is in the Constitution , when in fact it really is not , is wrong and merits reversal no matter which judges perpetrate the wrong decision .""","""So then , are we to presume that you would favor the sale and distribution of , to take the worst possible example , kiddie porn with no restrictions ? After all , the First Amendment says `` Congress shall make NO LAW abridging freedom of the press . BTW , re . Texas v. Johnson : Is a flag burning speech , and where in the Constitution does it say so ? I agree with the decision , which simply goes to prove that even a blind Antonin can find a peanut now and then .""",DISAGREE,"""Regardless , any decision that holds that something is in the Constitution , when in fact it really is not , is wrong and merits reversal no matter which judges perpetrate the wrong decision .""","""which simply goes to prove that even a blind Antonin can find a peanut now and then .""",,
36585,9570,"""`` ( 2 . ) Having to register guns will inevitably lead to a complete ban on guns , just as automobile registration has led to an outright ban on automobiles .""","""Cars are a privilege , your gun is n't . Show me evidence that would support the registration of your first amendment rights being constitutional .""",DISAGREE,"""guns will inevitably lead to a complete ban on guns ,""","""gun is n't . Show me evidence that would support the registration of your first""",,
36621,9579,"""When was this ? IT NEVER HAPPENED . I assume you are talking about back in 1999 , when they increased evolutionary curriculum five fold ? What they did in '99 was remove the requirement that macro evolution be taught . They have never removed old earth ( that just sounds stupid ) from earth science standards ,""","""You 're kidding , right ? You actually live in Kansas and you actually got yourself elected to a school board and you are unfamiliar with the efforts of creationists on the Kansas Board of Education to remove the teaching of evolution from the science standards ? You are telling a lie . Maybe you have been duped by creationists and do n't know that you are . A committee of 27 scientists and science educators was hired to rewrite the science standards . There were several drafts that were all presented to the board . When the final draft was presented , it was rejected and replaced by a version that had been put together by a YEC ( a geocentrist no less ) from Missouri . The adopted standards did not increase the evolutionary curriculum . The standards very clearly touted YEC ideas , barely mentioned even macro-evolution , and removed all references to the age of the earth and the universe . I know that sounds stupid , but then I do n't live in Kansas where school board members think that limiting mention of evolution to microevolution is smart . I read the proposed standards and the ones that were adopted . At the next election several creationists lost their seats , and the new school board threw out the `` new standards `` and adopted the version that had been written by the committee . Those standards probably actually did raise the levels of what was expected to be taught in Kansas schools from one of the worst in the nation to one of the best . You were aware that the Ford Foundation had funded a study of state science standards and Kansas had received an F. The creationist standards also received an F , and the standards written by the committee of scientists and educators received an A . You know , it almost would have been fun to be a biology teacher in Kansas when micro-evolution was OK and presentation of `` holes `` in the theory were required . I could have probably gone on for a week or two about the problems presented to the Biblical flood story from a biological standpoint . Noah 's flood requires macro-evolution . Not only that , it requires macro-evolution at rates that make the heads of evolutionary biologists spin . Just think - about 6 different species of horse , unknown numbers of cattle species , 36 different species of cat , twenty some species of the wolf/dog `` kind `` and so forth . What fun to be required to teach `` alternative `` theories in that case . Scientific Community Unites Against Kansas Board of Education Evolution Decision Kansas Board Votes To Bar Evolution From Classroom""",DISAGREE,"""when they increased evolutionary curriculum five fold ? What they did in '99 was remove the requirement""","""You actually live in Kansas and you actually got yourself elected to a school board""",,
36638,9586,"""I believe that there is no god because I see no compelling evidence .""","""I believe there has to be a God because I see no compelling evidence that life spontaneously generated from non living chemicals .""",DISAGREE,"""believe that there is no god see no compelling evidence .""","""there has to be a God see no compelling evidence that life spontaneously generated from non living chemicals""",,
36663,9593,"""You mean where the judge did the job she 's paid to do by ruling on the constitutionality of a law ? Or is this only a problem when it 's laws that you like that are ruled unconstitutional ?""","""When it 's obviously a law that 's not unconstitutional , then it 's obvious the judge was biased in the ruling . A strict constitutionalist would never overturn a law like that , as the constitution does not define marriage .""",DISAGREE,"""Or is this only a problem when it 's laws that you like that are ruled unconstitutional ?""","""When it 's obviously a law that 's not unconstitutional , then it 's obvious the judge was biased in the ruling .""",,
36684,9597,"""? ? What are you trying to say ?""","""That evolutionist call on the god of time and chance , The Almighty IT to explain what can not be observed or tested . Little insignificant changes turned fish into amphibians long ago and far far away .""",DISAGREE,"""What are you trying to say ?""","""That evolutionist call on the god of time and chance , The Almighty IT to explain what can not be observed""",,
36689,9599,"""This is just a slimy attempt by you to misrepresent my position .""","""Then better define your position .""",DISAGREE,"""This is just a slimy attempt by you to misrepresent my position .""","""Then better define your position .""",,
36705,9607,"""By the way .... it 's not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 %""","""Actually , it depends on what you are comparing and how you want to characterize certain phenomena . If you are comparing only coding sequence , then it is on the order of 99 % . If you are comparing coding and noncoding sequence , it is on the order of 97-98 % . If you consider indels not as one-time events that incorporate large-scale changes of sequence , but count the individual nuclotides within each indel , then it comes out to 94-95 % . What the creationists never seem to understand is that if you are goiong to adopt the comparison method in which indels are treated as colelctions of nuclotide changes rather than one-time events , ALL % similarities between ALL taxa will be lowered somewhat . This means that when they predictably trot out some bastardized version of Haldane 's dilemma claiming that the nmew lower similarity is even harder for evolution to explain , they do not realize how devastating this method of accounting is for creationism genetics . For now the 'increased dissimilarity ' has to be accounted for in the very short time frames allowed by biblically-constrained science - about 4,500 years instead of the hundreds of thousands or millions of years during which accumulations of DNA change can be accounted for . So desperate are they ro 'diss Darwin ' that they do n't recognize the problems their arguments cause for their own ideology . That or they do n't care .""",DISAGREE,"""'s not 99 % , as the article states , it 's 94 %""","""it depends on what you are comparing and how you want to characterize certain phenomena .""",,
36709,9609,"""Possible , if you read the bible . God told Moses he could overcome the Egyptian Gods . Never did God say any other God where False . For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night , and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt , both man and beast ; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment : I am the LORD .""","""The god of Moses was a pretty nasty guy .""",DISAGREE,"""if you read the bible . God told Moses he could overcome the Egyptian Gods . Never did God say any other God where False .""","""The god of Moses was a pretty nasty guy .""",,
36713,9611,"""Job 41:18-21 18 By his exhaling a light does shine , and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning . 19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps , and sparks of fire leap out . 20 Out of his nostrils goes smoke , as out of a seething pot or caldron . 21 His breath kindles coals , and a flame goes out of his mouth .""","""Wow , so Balrogs existed according to the Bible ? Whoda thunk .""",DISAGREE,"""By his exhaling a light does shine , and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning . 19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps , and sparks of fire leap out .""","""Wow , so Balrogs existed according to the Bible ? Whoda thunk .""",,
36718,9612,"""If I ever see Arch defend a position at EvC I will eat my hat and the hat of my fiance , too .""","""A ) I 'm not a member there . And 2 ) have you ever whistled in the wind ? Why would I waste my time on a forum which specializes in promoting the evo lies and scientific distortions in order to defend their cult religion which seek to erase God from the equation regarding how we came to be ?""",DISAGREE,"""If I ever see Arch defend a position at EvC I will eat my hat""","""Why would I waste my time on a forum which specializes in promoting the evo lies""",,
36769,9622,""" “ The amount went up after it was legalized and peaked in the 80s . It has sense gone down a bit and is leveling off ( some suggest because of studies that have come out about abortion and the fact that people that do n't support abortion has gone up sense the 80s and early 90s ) . ”""","""It shot up as soon as Reagan launched his failed campaign of anti-sex education , cutting social services for the poor and destroying the US economy into a recession that favored the rich against the poor . Since social-economical reasons are often the reason why people have abortions it is no surprise we saw abortion sky-rocket under Reagan ‘ s political atmosphere that was hostile to lower class families . If people were becoming more against abortion in the 90s then how can you explain Clinton ’ s popularity in winning two elections ? The a friendlier economic atmosphere , contraception education and relief from Reaganism helped reduce the abortion rate .""",DISAGREE,"""The amount went up after it was legalized and peaked in the 80s . It has sense gone down a bit and is leveling off ( some suggest because of studies that have come out about abortion and the fact that people that do n't support abortion has gone up sense the 80s and early 90s""","""It shot up as soon as Reagan launched his failed campaign of anti-sex education , cutting social services for the poor and destroying the US economy into a recession that favored the rich against the poor . Since social-economical reasons are often the reason why people have abortions it is no surprise we saw abortion sky-rocket under Reagan ‘ s political atmosphere that was hostile to lower class families . If people were becoming more against abortion in the 90s then how can you explain Clinton ’ s popularity in winning two elections ?""",,
36768,9622,""" “ The amount went up after it was legalized and peaked in the 80s . It has sense gone down a bit and is leveling off ( some suggest because of studies that have come out about abortion and the fact that people that do n't support abortion has gone up sense the 80s and early 90s ) . ”""","""It shot up as soon as Reagan launched his failed campaign of anti-sex education , cutting social services for the poor and destroying the US economy into a recession that favored the rich against the poor . Since social-economical reasons are often the reason why people have abortions it is no surprise we saw abortion sky-rocket under Reagan ‘ s political atmosphere that was hostile to lower class families . If people were becoming more against abortion in the 90s then how can you explain Clinton ’ s popularity in winning two elections ? The a friendlier economic atmosphere , contraception education and relief from Reaganism helped reduce the abortion rate .""",DISAGREE,"""The amount went up after it was legalized and peaked in the 80s . some suggest because of studies that have come out about abortion and the fact that people that do n't support abortion has gone up sense the 80s and early 90s""","""It shot up as soon as Reagan launched his failed campaign of anti-sex education , cutting social services for the poor and destroying the US economy into a recession that favored the rich against the poor . If people were becoming more against abortion in the 90s then how can you explain Clinton ’ s popularity in winning two elections ?""",,
36781,9624,"""And no I do n't say that life in the process of forming is not yet life . I say that once the egg and the seed are fertilized and it begins to grow , that is the most fundamental evidence of life we could possibly imagine . Especially since we have more than 5 BILLION completed examples of this process on earth today , you being one of those proofs of what becomes of that simple little fertilized egg . In spite of that overwhelming personal and universal evidence , and despite the fact that you pseudo scientists have argued that same point in every single debate on biology we have ever had here regarding simple biological life .""","""You said , just earlier , that a zygote 'has not yet had a chance to live ' . That 's pretty darn close . Forming life is not life . You have not presented any evidence that this is not the case - all you 've done is re-enforce your first part , that it becomes life .""",DISAGREE,"""no I do n't say the egg and the seed are fertilized , personal and universal evidence""","""You said , a zygote 'has not yet had a chance to live Forming life is not life . have not presented any evidence""",,
36782,9624,"""And no I do n't say that life in the process of forming is not yet life . I say that once the egg and the seed are fertilized and it begins to grow , that is the most fundamental evidence of life we could possibly imagine . Especially since we have more than 5 BILLION completed examples of this process on earth today , you being one of those proofs of what becomes of that simple little fertilized egg . In spite of that overwhelming personal and universal evidence , and despite the fact that you pseudo scientists have argued that same point in every single debate on biology we have ever had here regarding simple biological life .""","""You said , just earlier , that a zygote 'has not yet had a chance to live ' . That 's pretty darn close . Forming life is not life . You have not presented any evidence that this is not the case - all you 've done is re-enforce your first part , that it becomes life .""",DISAGREE,"""And no I do n't say that life in the process of forming is not yet life .""","""You said , just earlier , that a zygote 'has not yet had a chance to live ' . That 's pretty darn close . Forming life is not life .""",,
36804,9632,"""I explicitly described science as a methodology , not a philosophy .""","""* * Science is more than a methodology . Empiricism and validation by prediction from anticipated regularit is its methodology . If science were nothing more than a methodology , than no science would exist beyond the confines of any particular experiment and/or collection of observations/measurements undergone currently . However , you are right , in so far as 'science ' _should not_ be conflated with and confused for any particular philosophy , with the possible exception of empiticism . But 'should ' is not the issue . The fact is that , falsely and irrationally , you and other materialist have tried , and with great success unfortunately , to convince the public that your materialism and 'science ' are one and the same . Just denying that you have done so , and that you [ and your fellow darwinists ] continue to do so in your every post , does n't cut the mustard .""",DISAGREE,"""science as a methodology""","""Science is more than a methodology .""",,
36805,9633,"""Yet without it the vessel is just worms , mud , then dust , like rock & amp ; tree houses , not made to endure , yet , the life force , energy , back to the cosmos/source , converted , capable of being rewinded , paused , and fastfowarded , like a movie screen amongst the stars , revealing our lives .""","""its still not a bilateral relation . all living thing manifest energy , but not all things that manifest energy are alive . its easy to turn on your car ignition and make the engine run , heat up , generate electricty and make noise , all from the chemical energy in the gasoline . Still the car isnt alive . on the other hand , in the living body , energy is constantly being converted from chemical to other forms , and the moment energy stops transferring , the body is dead . the relationship between life and energy exists , but it still doesnt conclude that life is energy""",DISAGREE,"""life force , energy , back to the cosmos/source , converted , capable of being rewinded , paused , and fastfowarded , revealing our lives""","""all living thing manifest energy , but not all things that manifest energy are alive . , in the living body , energy is constantly being converted from chemical to other forms , and the moment energy stops transferring , the body is dead""",,
36811,9634,"""Even George Gaylord Simpson , Harvard high priest of evolution had to admit ,  “ In spite of the examples , it remains true ( as every paleontologist knows ) that most new species , genera and families appear in the record suddenly , and are not led up to by known , gradual , completely continuous transitional sequences. ” 50""","""Gee , and in what year did he state that ? 2005 ? No way . 2000 ? No . 1995 ? Nope . 1990 ? Nah . 1985 ? Could n't be . Without more information I can give an exact date , but seeing as how Simpson died in 1984 , he must have said that at least 21 years ago ( and if he said it in the middle of his life/career , it would have been more like 60 years ago ! ) - he did not know back then what we now know .""",DISAGREE,"""Even George Gaylord Simpson , Harvard high priest of evolution had to admit ,  In spite of the examples ,""","""Gee , and in what year did he state that ? 2005 ? No way . 2000 ? No . 1995 ? Nope .""",,
36819,9635,"""Maybe they should look in an abortionist 's sink and check of the bloody remains of the babies that are butchered . And if they think what they see in that sink is ok with God then they 're really sick individuals .""","""I highly doubt they throw them in the sink . They probably put them in a red plastic biohazard bag , tie it shut , and throw it on the pile of other red bags to be shipped off to a medical waste incinerator to be burned . May sound graphic and callous to you , but it is probably far more accurate that a `` sink full of bloody baby remains `` . Why must the anti-abortion crowd use such fallacious images to sell their point ?""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe they should look in an abortionist 's sink and check of the bloody remains of the babies that are butchered .""","""I highly doubt they throw them in the sink . They probably put them in a red plastic biohazard bag , tie it shut , and throw it on the pile of other red bags to be shipped off to a medical waste incinerator to be burned""",,
36823,9636,"""Are you kidding me ? The Bible says `` Thou shalt NOT kill `` . Obviously the Bible does n't say `` Thou shalt not have an abortion `` , but that 's because it does n't need to . The commandment pretty much says what it means .""","""Actually it says * thou shalt not murder * killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the bible.So yeah I agree the command does pretty much mean what it says and does n't reffere to a fetus .""",DISAGREE,"""Are you kidding me ? The Bible says `` Thou shalt NOT kill `` . Obviously the Bible does n't say""","""Actually it says * thou shalt not murder * killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the .""",,
36827,9636,"""Are you kidding me ? The Bible says `` Thou shalt NOT kill `` . Obviously the Bible does n't say `` Thou shalt not have an abortion `` , but that 's because it does n't need to . The commandment pretty much says what it means .""","""Actually it says * thou shalt not murder * killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the bible.So yeah I agree the command does pretty much mean what it says and does n't reffere to a fetus .""",DISAGREE,"""the commandment pretty much says what it means .""","""killing a fetus was n't considered murder , that IS stated in the .""",,
36837,9638,"""The first refutation is not a refutation at all - it is a retreat .""","""Fair enough .""",AGREE,"""The first refutation is not a refutation at all - it is a retreat .""","""Fair enough .""",,
36838,9638,"""The first refutation is not a refutation at all - it is a retreat .""","""Fair enough .""",AGREE,"""The first refutation is not a refutation at all - it is a retreat .""","""Fair enough .""",,
36843,9639,"""Originally posted by oldskool79 The idea that the earth was flat was an `` accepted `` principle as well . There is no verse that I know of that ever claims man has `` free will `` . In fact , the Bible actually says that before you can even choose to follow God he must first choose you .""","""Well its not much of a religious debate to me when it comes to free will . I believe the Bible fully supports the idea of free will and even assuming that it says nothing at all , based on the way some things go it is hard to believe a good God would not only allow it to happen , but to make it happen is even worse . I mean , what else is there ? If we do n't have free will and God is the ultimate power , then he must be the one making decisions for us . Ca n't blame the Devil for everything . Nah I guess you could , but that would n't make God sound too good either if he was letting all of his prized creations have their fake lives destroyed by a demon .""",DISAGREE,"""The idea that the earth was flat was an `` accepted `` principle as well . There is no verse that I know of that ever claims man has `` free will `` . In fact , the Bible actually says that before you can even choose to follow God he must first choose you .""","""I believe the Bible fully supports the idea of free will and even assuming that it says nothing at all , based on the way some things go it is hard to believe a good God would not only allow it to happen , but to make it happen is even""",,
36842,9639,"""Originally posted by oldskool79 The idea that the earth was flat was an `` accepted `` principle as well . There is no verse that I know of that ever claims man has `` free will `` . In fact , the Bible actually says that before you can even choose to follow God he must first choose you .""","""Well its not much of a religious debate to me when it comes to free will . I believe the Bible fully supports the idea of free will and even assuming that it says nothing at all , based on the way some things go it is hard to believe a good God would not only allow it to happen , but to make it happen is even worse . I mean , what else is there ? If we do n't have free will and God is the ultimate power , then he must be the one making decisions for us . Ca n't blame the Devil for everything . Nah I guess you could , but that would n't make God sound too good either if he was letting all of his prized creations have their fake lives destroyed by a demon .""",DISAGREE,"""There is no verse that I know of that ever claims man has `` free will `` . In fact , the Bible""","""I believe the Bible fully supports the idea of free will and even assuming that it says nothing at all , based on the way some things go it is hard to believe a good God would not only allow it to happen , but to make it happen is even worse .""",,
36847,9640,"""and more Democrats favoring bigger domestic government .""","""And where has Marc9000 been in the past oh 30 years ? Do we need to remind him of the size of the gov't under Reagan ? or how about Bush Sr , or Bush Jr ? Ah yes , so a party that supports the intervention of the federal government in the personal disputes of a family is not favoring bigger domestic government ? That crack rock has to be strong stuff .""",DISAGREE,"""and more Democrats favoring bigger domestic government .""","""Do we need to remind him of the size of the gov't under Reagan ? or how about Bush Sr , or Bush Jr ?""",,
36855,9642,"""Brady , I wonder if you 'd think differently if those two guys got away , raped your wife , killed your kids , burned your house , and you somehow knew that they could 've been stopped back in Texas .""","""dreaming up imaginary what if situations doesnt prove anything , youve got nothing""",DISAGREE,"""Brady , I wonder if you 'd think differently if those two guys got away , raped your wife , killed your kids , burned your house , and you somehow knew that they could 've been stopped back in Texas .""","""dreaming up imaginary what if situations doesnt prove anything , youve got nothing""",,
36862,9643,"""In my time I have been practicing Christian and now I would consider myself a 'Weak Atheist ' . I came across an article on the BBC website ( The article is linked below ) on agnosticism and has got me thinking about my position on the existence of deities . Is agnosticism the more logical position ? Or is it merely an exercise in intellectual fence sitting ? http : //news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6199716.stm Wikipedia Entry on Agnosticism - http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic""","""It depends . Do you feel the same way about the Yeti ? How about the Lock Ness monster ? You can make the statement 'Based on the current available evidence , I do not believe in the existance of any god/gods . ' I think it is intellectual fence sitting myself . I feel the same way about God as i do about fairies , the yeti , alien abductions , and 'psychic powers ' . There is no evidence that any of these exist , so based on the evidence , I do n't believe they exist . Should new evidence be forthcoming , I will reevalutate my position based on that evidence .""",DISAGREE,"""In my time I have been practicing Christian and now I would consider myself a 'Weak Atheist ' . I came across an article on the BBC website ( The article is linked below ) on agnosticism and has got me thinking about my position on the existence of deities .""","""Should new evidence be forthcoming , I will reevalutate my position based on that evidence .""",,
36871,9646,"""The outlawing of guns , and an increased presence of government in our homes , go hand in hand .""","""and to think we got back a few gun rights , and we still have the patriot act . i know all the reasons given for why `` THEY `` want to disarm us , what I am trying to understand is why one person wants to see them outlawed .""",DISAGREE,"""The outlawing of guns , and an increased presence of government in our homes , go hand in hand .""","""and to think we got back a few gun rights , and we still have the patriot act""",,
36877,9655,"""The legal middle ground is called `` civil unions. ``""","""No , the legal middle ground between no same-sex marriage and only same-sex marriage is marriage for all , just as the legal middle ground between no opposite-sex marriage and only opposite-sex marriage is marriage for all . Another possiblity would be marriage for none , but let 's not go there .""",DISAGREE,"""legal middle ground is called `` civil""","""No , the legal middle ground between no same-sex marriage and only same-sex marriage is marriage for all""",,
36881,9657,"""Then a marijuana addict will rationalize his/her behavior by saying things like `` well atleast I do n't do herion `` ... thats like a theft saying `` atleast I do n't steal at gunpoint `` ... i mean you are still stealing .""","""He he , I guess I would definitely consider myself a weed addict . Although , the addiction is more psychological than physical . If you smoke weed all the time and then stop for a week or so , you get really pissy and irritable , but that 's about it . But no regular pot smoker sits around justifying why they do it , they just do it cuz they like it , nothing too complicated about it .""",AGREE,"""a marijuana addict will rationalize his/her behavior by saying things like `` well atleast I do n't do herion `` ... thats like a theft saying `` atleast I do n't steal at gunpoint `` ... i mean you are still stealing .""","""no regular pot smoker sits around justifying why they do it , they just do it cuz they like it , nothing too complicated about it .""",,
36883,9658,"""Wow , I just have to say that Sinjin , Trebor , And Colonel , have shown me what a fool I have been for believing in God , and trying to live my life as a good and God fearing person , I guess now since there really is no God , I can just act like some kind of hate mongering heathen with nothing to fear from a higher power who says not to act like that ( heathen ) . Man if we had leaders like you , and our kids were taught to believe as you three do , our society would be so much better off . We would have more crime , less morality , churches could shut down and not help strugling people with things like food and bills , we would be able to remove `` In God we Trust `` from our money and replace it with `` We dont trust or believe in squat `` . And by the way , if God is not real as you have plainly made me see , why is Gods name on our money , why is Gods name in our pledge of allegiance , why have people believed in God and the bible since before you and I were ever thought of , before your fancy psychology was ever thought of , for that matter why do we have AD and a Bc eras . I once heard on the news that Nohas Ark had been found , but hoe is that possible . I guess I will just keep on being the fool that yall think I am by believing in God , I am a lot better off in many ways .""","""And there you go again .. first of all , misrepresenting all the things everyone has said , and second of all , bringing up that red herring of 'In God We Trust ' . You see , you are mixing up what your basic beliefs are with how you are acting . I do think it is very amusing that the Knights of Columbus , in an effort to 'show how different we are from the Godless Commies `` have tricked the Christians of this country into the worshiping of Idols . They turned the pledge into a prayer , and the flag into an idol , and Money into a God . Do keep on bringing up all these things about 'Noah 's ark ' and such . I guess you hear a sound bit on TV , and believe it hook line and sinker . It demonstrates to me what has to be changed in the schools on that we should teach people how to listen critically , and to actually learn things . I find that knowledge is the enemy of both religion and right wing fundamentalism . When people can actually learn and understand things on their own , and to be able to critically process information , they tend to stop being red neck fundamentalists , and can actually contribute to society .""",DISAGREE,"""what a fool I have been for believing in God , and trying to live my life as a good and God fearing person""","""And there you go again .. first of all , misrepresenting all the things everyone has said ,""",,
36896,9661,"""# 4 - How do we know without a doubt the world is billions of years old ?""","""All of the evidence from a variety of sources indicates that it is so . Cosmology , astrophysics , nuclear physics , geology and so on all indicate that the earth is old . In fact , the earth looks quite old with some mountains that have been greatly eroded .""",DISAGREE,"""How do we know without a doubt the world is billions of years old""","""the earth looks quite old with some mountains that have been greatly eroded""",,
36903,9662,"""You are quite anti-religious it seems .""","""I 'm anti-ignorance and superstition . It is not my fault that this is what religion is as well .""",DISAGREE,"""You are quite anti-religious it seems .""","""I 'm anti-ignorance and superstition .""",,
36908,9663,"""So there you have it . An evolutionist 's formulation of an IDists response . Appropriately , because ID as a whole is essentially an argument from ignorance , ignorance plays a role the answers to all your questions . ( `` Do n't know `` / `` Do n't care `` / `` Does n't matter. `` ) ID simply sidesteps these issues . Also notice that none of the statements are testable or falsifiable , except for the parts of the OEC view that are perfectly compatible with geology and evolution . Some will claim that they `` have no reason `` to doubt common descent ( a la Behe ) but do a conspicuously good job of not saying they actually believe it . And if any IDists have a problem with my responses , they 're able to post their own responses . However , they were able to do that even before I responded , and they did n't ...""","""Yes , intelligent design is another incarnation of the `` God of the gaps `` idea . What separates it in conceptual terms from YEC ( for example ) is its gaps are much , much smaller , but remain nonetheless . I wonder if we have a true advocate of Behe 's Intelligent Design to argue the corner ?""",AGREE,"""they were able to do that even before I responded , and they did n't""","""I wonder if we have a true advocate of Behe 's Intelligent Design to argue the corner""",,
36916,9664,"""i can not prove 100 % that God exist , the atheist can not prove100 % that God does not exist because absolute proof is not posible . However , theisn better fites the evidence than atheism .""","""Only if you make invalid assumptions .""",DISAGREE,"""100 % that God exist God does not exist because absolute proof is not posible""","""Only if you make invalid assumptions .""",,
36928,9665,"""Working backwards , you can take any IC system , add a redundant part or many parts that create redundancy , take away the modern part you are replacing and by doing a few iterations of this you can create a non-IC system . A non-IC system can obviously evolve , but now run the film back forward again and what do you know , you have created an IC system through scaffolding . Best of all , not giant leaps were required as the concept of IC contends . I can imagine this process for any system that fits the definition of IC .""","""So that ’ s it – there ’ s nothing else to study on the subject ? The process you describe naturally takes long periods of time . Do you wonder if , during this process , information/health/life could lie dormant for long periods of time , or if it would have to make some of its changes close to the time when other things changed , or when the system became operational ? In mid-2001 , the Human Genome Project and Celera Genomics jointly presented the true nature and complexity of the digital code inherent in DNA . We now understand that each human DNA molecule is comprised of chemical bases arranged in approximately 3 billion precise sequences . Even the DNA molecule for the single-celled bacterium , E. coli , contains enough information to fill all the books in any of the world 's largest libraries . ID proponents are often accused of saying  “ goddidit , that settles it , stop looking ” , and it seems that atheists do that quite often as well . Can you quote any ID proponent saying what you said , that  “ we don ’ t need to develop exact pathsÂ…Â ” ? Behe can describe exploration of paths , that aren ’ t being explored to any great extent now . ( too religious , don't-cha-know ) In his words ;  “ Since the simplest possible design scenario posits a single cell –formed billions of years ago – that already contained all information to produce descendant organisms , studies could test this scenario by attempting to calculate how much DNA would be required to code the information ( keeping in mind that much of the information might be implicit ) lf DNA alone is insufficient , studies could be initiated to see if information could be stored in the cell in other ways – for example , as positional information . Other work could focus on whether larger , compound systems ( containing two or more irreducibly complex systems ) could have developed gradually or whether there are compounded irreducibilities. ”  “ Blind , purposeless , happenstance nature did it , that settles it , stop looking ” ? Is that your answer ? Is the type of study Behe describes something for atheists to be afraid of ?""",DISAGREE,"""Working backwards non-IC system can obviously evolve""","""nothing else to study on the subject ? purposeless , happenstance nature did it""",,
36925,9665,"""Working backwards , you can take any IC system , add a redundant part or many parts that create redundancy , take away the modern part you are replacing and by doing a few iterations of this you can create a non-IC system . A non-IC system can obviously evolve , but now run the film back forward again and what do you know , you have created an IC system through scaffolding . Best of all , not giant leaps were required as the concept of IC contends . I can imagine this process for any system that fits the definition of IC .""","""So that ’ s it – there ’ s nothing else to study on the subject ? The process you describe naturally takes long periods of time . Do you wonder if , during this process , information/health/life could lie dormant for long periods of time , or if it would have to make some of its changes close to the time when other things changed , or when the system became operational ? In mid-2001 , the Human Genome Project and Celera Genomics jointly presented the true nature and complexity of the digital code inherent in DNA . We now understand that each human DNA molecule is comprised of chemical bases arranged in approximately 3 billion precise sequences . Even the DNA molecule for the single-celled bacterium , E. coli , contains enough information to fill all the books in any of the world 's largest libraries . ID proponents are often accused of saying  “ goddidit , that settles it , stop looking ” , and it seems that atheists do that quite often as well . Can you quote any ID proponent saying what you said , that  “ we don ’ t need to develop exact pathsÂ…Â ” ? Behe can describe exploration of paths , that aren ’ t being explored to any great extent now . ( too religious , don't-cha-know ) In his words ;  “ Since the simplest possible design scenario posits a single cell –formed billions of years ago – that already contained all information to produce descendant organisms , studies could test this scenario by attempting to calculate how much DNA would be required to code the information ( keeping in mind that much of the information might be implicit ) lf DNA alone is insufficient , studies could be initiated to see if information could be stored in the cell in other ways – for example , as positional information . Other work could focus on whether larger , compound systems ( containing two or more irreducibly complex systems ) could have developed gradually or whether there are compounded irreducibilities. ”  “ Blind , purposeless , happenstance nature did it , that settles it , stop looking ” ? Is that your answer ? Is the type of study Behe describes something for atheists to be afraid of ?""",DISAGREE,"""Best of all , not giant leaps were required as the concept of IC contends""","""if it would have to make some of its changes close to the time when other things changed""",,
36938,9666,"""This is exactly the kind of tool which any wanna-be Dictator would elect to impose his own private vision of a disarmed citizenry . In fact , I 'm unclear on the process ... would it be necessary for this treaty to be ratified by Congress ? Can the president sign this treaty and unilaterally impose disarmament on the strongest country on earth ?""","""No . WND is a menace .""",DISAGREE,"""This is exactly the kind of tool which any wanna-be Dictator would elect to impose his own private vision of a disarmed citizenry .""","""No . WND is a menace .""",,
36949,9667,"""I do n't know about that , but yes the ACLU has been sketchy about the support of the Constitution . Thier passion is most definately there , but thier brains are not . Just the fact they equate auto registration and gun ownership shows they got some freaky ideas about the Constitution . BTW VOR you do n't fool me . Your not after gun control . Your after gun bans .""","""So are you saying I do n't want gun registration ? BTW you do n't fool me . Your intention is not to protect people 's right to life and follow the Constitution .""",DISAGREE,"""Your not after gun control . Your after gun bans .""","""So are you saying I do n't want gun registration ?""",,
36946,9667,"""I do n't know about that , but yes the ACLU has been sketchy about the support of the Constitution . Thier passion is most definately there , but thier brains are not . Just the fact they equate auto registration and gun ownership shows they got some freaky ideas about the Constitution . BTW VOR you do n't fool me . Your not after gun control . Your after gun bans .""","""So are you saying I do n't want gun registration ? BTW you do n't fool me . Your intention is not to protect people 's right to life and follow the Constitution .""",DISAGREE,"""I do n't know about that , but yes the ACLU has been sketchy about the support of the Constitution . Thier passion is most definately there""","""So are you saying I do n't want gun registration ? BTW you do n't fool me .""",,
36951,9667,"""I do n't know about that , but yes the ACLU has been sketchy about the support of the Constitution . Thier passion is most definately there , but thier brains are not . Just the fact they equate auto registration and gun ownership shows they got some freaky ideas about the Constitution . BTW VOR you do n't fool me . Your not after gun control . Your after gun bans .""","""So are you saying I do n't want gun registration ? BTW you do n't fool me . Your intention is not to protect people 's right to life and follow the Constitution .""",DISAGREE,"""Thier passion is most definately there , but thier brains are not""","""Your intention is not to protect people 's right to life and follow the Constitution""",,
36958,9669,"""`` ( 10 . ) The politicians who support gun control laws are 'socialists ' and 'communists ' , such as Ronald Reagan ( who has spoken in favor of the Brady Bill and Assault Weapons Ban ) and George Bush , Sr. ( who publicly tore up his NRA membership to protest their policies ) .""","""Not everyone agrees with policy . Afterall look at the Brady Campaign , one of their long time members was leaking classified information to the NRA and other pro-gun groups on purpose .""",DISAGREE,"""The politicians who support gun control laws are 'socialists ' and 'communists""","""Not everyone agrees with policy .""",,
36964,9671,"""The truth is , his nation is even worse than those he condemns . Why he tries to hide the truth is beyond belief ! ! The only unarmed people in Eurasia are the law abiding ones and he thinks this is a good thing ? Pure evil ! !""","""Well that explains the twisted thought pattern on our constitution is broken .""",DISAGREE,"""Why he tries to hide the truth is beyond belief ! !""","""that explains the twisted thought pattern on our constitution is broken .""",,
36979,9674,"""this is also the reason why atheism is more like a religion . through emotional experiences , rather than deduction and reasoning , people decide whether God exists or not . it also has to do with perception , since there are christians who suffer afflictions similar to yours , and it only strengthens their faith .""","""It is curious how lately christians have been telling me that being an aethiest ( which I am ) , is a religion . The above post is a good example of this misunderstanding . First - the lack of a religion is NOT a religion . Second , I 'll simply disagree with your statement . Observation , reasoning , and deduction is exactly what leads me to understand that there is no god , and that religion is merely an attempt to explain what we have not yet been able to reason out . As our knowledge increases , our need for a god decreases , and we can begin to see through the emotional fog of religion that keeps us in ignorance .""",DISAGREE,"""this is also the reason why atheism is more like a religion .""","""It is curious how lately christians have been telling me that being an aethiest ( which I am ) , is a religion .""",,
36982,9675,"""What did change ? What exactly happened , that 's the direct fault of the NRA , that allowed this to happen ?""","""Well by that logic , why was n't the Brady campaign , police , or law there to save them ?""",DISAGREE,"""What did change ? What exactly happened , that 's the direct fault of the NRA , that allowed this to happen ?""","""Well by that logic , why was n't the Brady campaign , police , or law there to save them ?""",,
37007,9680,"""Are they going to argue that all the petrified woods could have been formed within the 6000 year life of the earth ?""","""Exactly . I can hear it now - `` Scientist have created petrified wood in 3 days . This throws serious doubt on the millions of years theory for its development currently accepted by evolutionists , and is strong evidence that the petrified wood touted as evidence for an ancient earth by evolutionists is capable of , and in fact more likely to have been , produced within a short time span of less , certainly less than 6000 years. `` I should be the next `` Dr. `` Hovind . Waxy P.S . I agree on the use of Argon .""",AGREE,"""Are they going to argue that all the petrified woods could have been formed within the 6000 year life of the earth ?""","""Exactly . I can hear it now""",,
37012,9681,"""Yes , I am saying that reasoned arguments from anthropology can and do account for the evolution of morals , the law , etc . in human societies .""","""Do you believe , like Dawkins in a 'religious gene ' ?""",DISAGREE,"""reasoned arguments from anthropology can and do account for the evolution of morals , the law , etc . in human societies""","""Do you believe , like Dawkins in a 'religious gene ' ?""",,
37031,9684,"""If you draw a gun on someone holding a gun and do n't shoot straight away then you 're likely to get shot yourself . Without a gun you 're not a threat . If you have a gun but get taken by surprise , or a burglar goes for your gun first when he breaks in you 've just given him a better weapon . Lastly and most importantly the prevalence of guns in general makes criminals far more likely to go armed , which raises the chance of you getting shot .""","""Actually , might I say that you assume that the criminal had a firearm , correct ? This may seem foolish of me , but I 'll go along with you . Now , you can assume that a criminal doens't have the right mindset . There 's always a first crime , but is n't it illegal for an ex-con , a drug addict/alcholic , or someone who has a few screws loose up there to own a firearm ? So we could assume in your situation that the law was n't enforced . So let 's pretend like the law actually is enforced , shall we ? What makes you think the criminal has a firearm ? If he has a firearm , how do you know that it 's because the law was n't enforced ? The solution is to put a bit of muscle into enforcing the laws we have now . You would n't be this guy , would you ? Oh , no , my house is on fire ! I better throw some gasoline onto it ! ... Oh , no , that made it worse ! There 's some trees there that could burn the entire neighborhood down if they catch , so I better throw some more gas onto it ! ... Why is n't it working ? You , over there ! Yeah , you ! Tell everyone that my house is fine !""",DISAGREE,"""draw a gun get taken by surprise""","""might I say that you assume that the criminal had a firearm""",,
37048,9687,"""Including I suppose the underling of the same words in both places ?""","""so where is the evolution ?""",DISAGREE,"""Including I suppose the underling of the same words in both places ?""","""so where is the evolution ?""",,
37058,9696,"""Same response as the last question ... Straw man ! Self-defence includes threatening behaviour - as you would have learnt if you had the patience to wait for my response rather than run to the 'new thread ' button ...""","""So ... you 're saying that you 'd rather have a law-abiding citizen victimized than a criminal threatened ?""",DISAGREE,"""Same as the last question ... Straw man ! Self-defence includes threatening behaviour""","""So ... you 're saying that you 'd rather have a law-abiding citizen victimized than a criminal threatened ?""",,
37062,9697,"""Except that the word for day in Genesis 1 is 'yom ' and was understood to be a twenty-four hour day .""","""Nope . Yowm could be day ( a in opposed to night - thus only around 12 hours or so ) , it could be a 24 hour day , it could be days ( as in a lifetime ) , it could be just a general term for `` time `` or a `` period `` . It could also mean year . Yowm can be translated as each and every one of those . So your statement is false that it is `` understood `` to be that when it could just as easily be translated as one of the others .""",DISAGREE,"""Except that the word for day in Genesis 1 is 'yom ' and was understood to be a twenty-four hour day .""","""Nope . Yowm could be day ( a in opposed to night - thus only around 12 hours or so ) , it could be a 24 hour day ,""",,
37077,9702,"""No Montalban , fallacy or falsity will not persuade me to think a true claim is false . Your faith can not differentiate truth from falsity , so we can not use your faith-based evidence , since it always results in circular reasoning , and ultimately , contradiction . If you wish to support your refutation with logical or justified evidence , please do . You have not . I make no such claims about the unknowable . I have claimed , that your claim , is illogical : =============================== Defined : Unknowable : not knowable www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn - based on Law of Contradiction A proposition can not be both true and false . Is it knowable ? No , by definition , it 's unknowable . False Is it knowable ? You claim you know it . True Knowable : Not Knowable . The claim - I know something of the unknowable - Is a logical contradiction . -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - Your claim remains contradictory , despite your anger and frustration and assumptions about me . -Mach""","""Do n't you get tired of passing of just-so statement as argument ?""",DISAGREE,"""Your faith can not differentiate truth from falsity""","""Do n't you get tired of passing of just-so statement as argument ?""",,
37090,9712,"""Ok , here 's a thread where I discuss that `` The Right to an Abortion is not in the Constitution. `` As you will read , this claim went unrefuted . Since the right to an abortion is not in the constitution , it may be regulated by the states however the states wish , just like speed limits and jaywalking . Thus , the states may do whatever they wish regarding abortion . They may ban abortion because they claim it harms women 's health , or they may ban abortion because they claim that the fetus is a person , or they may ban abortion because Sunday is the first day of the week .""","""So you made the point on the interpretation of a legal document . The point is it is okay to illegalise abortion regardless of the reasons for doing so . Thinking outside of our current example can you not see the glaring problem with such an approach ? I hope you can because the consequences of accepting such a philosophy are dire indeed . However , returning to our original point , that being the former part of the proposed Bill 's title I 'd like some supporting evidence . I have pointed out the issue 's with Steeeeve 's citation , so hope you have something else to offer .""",DISAGREE,"""The Right to an Abortion is not in the .""","""The point is it is okay to illegalise abortion regardless of the reasons for doing so .""",,
37105,9715,"""I was actually looking up on the story of the Uzi , AK47 and the M16 . After doing some research I settled on the upgraded M16 as my weapon of choice . It has great automatic , whoop-butt accuracy and amazing reload times . It is my favrioute weapon for combat ( should I ever have to fight in a war or such ) , but for home-defense I have to go with the AK47 . Cause lets be honest , we ca n't clean weapons all day and the AK47 gives you the ease of mind of knowing your weapon is n't going to conk out when the murderer charges at ya . Although the other assualt rifles may have more stopping power , accuracy etc. , I have to go with the Uzi for portable self-defense , mainly because of its small design . So , not going into the argument on whether guns are moral or whatever , what is your weapon of choice and why ?""","""My weapon of choice is a portable nuclear bomb , because with one of them nobody will ever mess with you . Automatic shotgun is good , just in case somebody trys to steal my portable nuke . But i would love one of those lazer guns , i would also like next weeks lottery numbers . On a serious note , what you think of lazer guns ?""",AGREE,"""After doing some research I settled on the upgraded M16 as my weapon of choice""","""My weapon of choice is a portable nuclear bomb ,""",,
37123,9729,"""THe words `` militia `` and `` people `` make it very clear who has the right to bear arms .""","""You are also protected by the 4 , 5 , and 14th Amendments . Your guns can not be seized . You can not be under suspicion for your guns to be seized without due process . All your legally obtained property is yours do to with in any way you want as long as it is legal . Lets not forget privacy . No one has the right to stick your nose into your business to even find out what your doing with your guns .""",AGREE,"""THe words `` militia `` and `` people `` make it very clear who has the right to bear arms .""","""All your legally obtained property is yours do to with in any way you want as long as it is legal .""",,
37128,9731,"""Would someone care to post the `` Cliff Notes `` of ID theory ? The entire theory seems like a non-sequitor to me , at least as presented by our friendly neighborhood ID peddler . In essence , it seems as though the central claim is that nothing `` intelligent `` and no `` information `` can be be created except by a creator , and that the world as we know it could not exist without this information . Further to that , the complexity and `` order `` of the universe is evidence of the work of an intelligent designer . Is that fair enough ? So if nothing intelligent and no information can be created , how did the creator get created ? That 's step one , IMHO , and it would seem to me it all falls apart right there , but I 'm assuming I 'll get some kind of an `` always there `` or other such supernatural explanation . A luxury never afforded to the `` scientist `` side of the debate . As far as `` information `` ( I really do n't like that word anymore ) and complexity are concerned , it comes down to the available scientific explanations vs. `` you 're wrong , the creator did it `` in various forms . In other words , it essentially boils down to an entirely philosophical debate as from what I 've seen so far , it ca n't really be argued on a purely scientific level . Further to that , it would seem to me to be a very tenous position to hold to agree that micro evolution and perhaps speciation can occur , and that the world functions as it does because of `` intelligent design `` , and yet profess belief in a 6000 year old earth . In other words , I ca n't see ID theory , which seems to me to be essentially a form of theistic evolution , being compatible with Young Earth Creationism , or for that matter , with any form of literal Creationism . I look forward to be edumacated on the subject . Waxy""","""The I.D . in a nut shell We do n't know how 'XYZ ' could occur naturally . Therefore it was designed by someone .. and of course , that someone is god .""",AGREE,"""Would someone care to post the `` Cliff Notes `` of ID theory ? The entire theory seems like a non-sequitor to me , at least as presented by our friendly neighborhood ID peddler . In essence , it seems as though the central claim is that nothing `` intelligent `` and no `` information `` can be be created except by a creator , and that the world as we know it could not exist without this information .""","""The I.D . in a nut shell We do n't know how 'XYZ ' could occur naturally . Therefore it was designed by someone .. and of course , that someone is god""",,
37147,9734,"""An American citizen with rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES ! ! ! There is no right in the constitution that allows her to be a jerk who breaks the law with impunity and then refuses to cooperate with the cops who are responsible for public safety .""","""Actually , there is , my poor addle-minded friend . Indeed , you can argue that she was even exercising her responsibility as a citizen with more civic-mindedness than many because she non-violently and patiently refused to sign the ticket . She has a right not to sign . As H.D . Thoreau said to Emerson in jail , when Emerson said to him , `` Henry why are you here ? `` -- Henry answered , `` Ralph , why are you not ? ``""",DISAGREE,"""There is no right in the constitution that allows her to be a jerk who breaks the law with impunity and then refuses to cooperate with the cops who are responsible for public safety .""","""Actually , there is , my poor addle-minded friend . Indeed , you can argue that she was even exercising her responsibility as a citizen with more civic-mindedness than many because she non-violently and patiently refused to sign the ticket .""",,
37151,9735,"""Oh , really ? Darwin did n't have a continuous , partial , gradual , perpetual , and cumulative process of minor historical changes in organisms in mind when he broached `` his theory `` of evolution ?""","""But you have incorrectly defined evolution , both in a biological and non-biological context . In Darwin 's time the word evolution meant change along a particular path towards a particular end . For example , stellar evolution . That is not what Darwin proposed . That is what creationists like you propose as the meaning of biological evolution .""",DISAGREE,"""Darwin did n't have a continuous , partial , gradual , perpetual , and cumulative process of minor historical changes in organisms in mind when he broached `` his theory `` of evolution ?""","""But you have incorrectly defined evolution , both in a biological and non-biological context .""",,
37163,9737,"""You can 'describe ' materialism in ways that are untrue ,""","""You mean , in ways that are different from your pet version ? WW , what defines materialism - the phenomena it recognises - if not their susceptibility to the scientific method ? Science is more than a methodology . Empiricism and validation by prediction from anticipated regularit is its methodology . If science were nothing more than a methodology , than no science would exist beyond the confines of any particular experiment and/or collection of observations/measurements undergone currently .""",DISAGREE,"""You can 'describe ' materialism in ways that are untrue""","""in ways that are different from your pet version ? Empiricism and validation by prediction from anticipated regularit is its methodology""",,
37173,9746,"""You guys know me . Always happy to correct anyone . As electrolyte pointed out , ( 1 ) the first step in the scientific method is the observation . A scientist observes something that raises a question . ( 2 ) Then comes the hypothesis , that is an attempt to explain the observation . The hypothesis can be an educated guess or even wild speculation based on previous knowledge or intuition , or it may be based in previous science and an understanding of scientific principles . ( 3 ) One then makes a prediction that is a necessary consequence of the hypothesis . That science is predictive is one of its salient characteristics . In the case of the scientific method , the prediction is said to have the power to falsify the hypothesis . In other words , if the prediction can be shown to be false , then the hypothesis must also be false . If the prediction is true , then the hypothesis is supported . So now we have the observation , the hypothesis that explains the observation , and a prediction that is a consequence of the hypothesis . The next step ( 4 ) is to design an experiment to test the prediction , and then ( 5 ) to perform the test . If the prediction fails the test , then it may be abandoned . However , as electrolyte pointed out , the process may be circular , because if the prediction is falsified , additional observation from the test may be used to adjust the hypothesis at ( 2 ) , and a new prediction is made at ( 3 ) , and so on . In creation science , the process stops at ( 2 ) , except that the hypothesis is based on dogma and scripture , not reality .""","""Ah , thanks for the correction , although there are really many ways to state the method . Last time I checked , i believed that the observation was part of the hypothesis process , but I could be wrong .""",DISAGREE,"""the first step in the scientific method is the observation . A scientist observes something that raises a question . ( 2 ) Then comes the hypothesis , that is an attempt to explain the observation .""","""thanks for the correction , although there are really many ways to state the method . i believed that the observation was part of the hypothesis process , but I could be wrong .""",,
37178,9748,"""And these scriptures have been unchanged for the past 2000-2500 approx years !""","""Define `` unchanged. ``""",DISAGREE,"""And these scriptures have been unchanged for the past 2000-2500 approx years !""","""Define `` unchanged. ``""",,
37184,9750,"""Agreed , that would be a good reason . The question Cone asked was : should the government be able to make such a policy ? . You and I agree that having a body that can make such decisions has a good reason to exist .""","""I think there is a difference in saying what you must have and saying what you ca n't have .""",DISAGREE,"""Agreed , that would be a good reason . The question Cone asked was : should the government be able to make such a policy ? . You and I agree that having a body that can make such decisions has a good reason to exist .""","""I think there is a difference in saying what you must have and saying what you ca n't have .""",,
37192,9752,"""I personally like this one : `` A species are organisms that live together and can breed together , and whose offspring can also breed together. ``""","""so why do they call polar bears and brown bears different `` species `` when they can breed and produce fertile offspring together ? Same with different varieties of finches . It seems to me that evos do n't at all go on the ability to breed or produce viable offspring , but instead just on mere looks .... otherwise , why would they have made such obvious mistakes with the bears and finches , not to mention countless others ? I wonder if Big Science would consider black people different `` species `` than say Asian people or white people -- they look different , which is their main criteria .... so why not ? As a creationist , I can very comfortably say that all humans are of the same kind .""",DISAGREE,"""A species are organisms that live together and can breed together , and whose offspring can also breed together. ``""","""so why do they call polar bears and brown bears different `` species `` when they can breed and produce fertile offspring together ?""",,
37194,9753,"""The potentiality argument is often used against those who do not believe that a fetus is worthy of being called a person , a human , or whatever word you prefer to argue over .""","""Too much spin there buddy . The potentiality arguement is used by those who believe women have a right to have control over their fertility . As an aside it is also a fundemental tenent in Judaism 's view of the unborn- the foetus is a potential life , but has not yet attained that state of being , which occurs at birth .""",DISAGREE,"""The potentiality argument is often used against those who do not believe that a fetus is worthy of being called a person , a human , or whatever word you prefer to argue over .""","""The potentiality arguement is used by those who believe women have a right to have control over their fertility .""",,
37200,9754,"""So now I 'm looking for advice . Whats the best way to go up against creationists bastards seeking the brainwash the populace ?""","""Well good on you for taking a proactive stance against the AiG misinformation campaign To add to what johnhanks said be careful about about insulting them- regardless of how infuriating their position is the weight of evidence and reason is firmly on the side of science . Use this to your advantage as it means you can rise above the personal attacks/character assassination that the likes of AiG so frequently resort to . Secondly be careful in the use of the term creationist- remember AiG are Young Earth Creationists and do not speak for creationists as a whole- there are Christians who accept the analysis of science yet still see the universe as the creation of God ( ie . Old Earth Creationists ) . This is significant as it is important to drive the point home that YEC does not speak on behalf of all Christians ( as it likes to make out ) , but are a group on the fringe whose position is seen as ridiculous by Christian and non-Christian alike . Put this to them and you force them to start attacking fellow Christians . P.S . Welcome to the Forum !""",AGREE,"""So now I 'm looking for advice .""","""Well good on you for taking a proactive stance against the AiG""",,
37201,9754,"""So now I 'm looking for advice . Whats the best way to go up against creationists bastards seeking the brainwash the populace ?""","""Well good on you for taking a proactive stance against the AiG misinformation campaign To add to what johnhanks said be careful about about insulting them- regardless of how infuriating their position is the weight of evidence and reason is firmly on the side of science . Use this to your advantage as it means you can rise above the personal attacks/character assassination that the likes of AiG so frequently resort to . Secondly be careful in the use of the term creationist- remember AiG are Young Earth Creationists and do not speak for creationists as a whole- there are Christians who accept the analysis of science yet still see the universe as the creation of God ( ie . Old Earth Creationists ) . This is significant as it is important to drive the point home that YEC does not speak on behalf of all Christians ( as it likes to make out ) , but are a group on the fringe whose position is seen as ridiculous by Christian and non-Christian alike . Put this to them and you force them to start attacking fellow Christians . P.S . Welcome to the Forum !""",AGREE,"""Whats the best way to go up against creationists bastards seeking the brainwash the populace ?""","""Young Earth Creationists and do not speak for creationists as a""",,
37203,9755,"""And viability is an ever-changing concept ( a 12-week fetus was delivered recently in Minnesota , and as far as I know is still alive and doing well -- please feel free to update me if you have heard any other news ) .""","""Actually , I can not accept that claim . Before then , the absolutely youngest ever surviving fetus was deliver at 19 weeks , 6 days . 12 weeks would be a worldwide sensation . I would recommend that you double-check your source . Viability is still defined as the age at which 50 % survive , which still is at around 24 weeks gestation/26 weeks pregnancy .""",DISAGREE,"""And viability is an ever-changing concept a 12-week fetus was delivered recently in Minnesota , and as far as I know is still alive and doing well""","""Actually , I can not accept that claim . Before then , the absolutely youngest ever surviving fetus was deliver at 19 weeks , 6 days . 12 weeks would be a worldwide sensation . I would recommend that you double-check your source . Viability is still defined as the age at which 50 % survive , which still is at around 24 weeks gestation/26 weeks pregnancy .""",,
37217,9759,"""If you 're after concealment my favorite and regular carry is the Kel-Tec .380 . Fits in the watch pocket of a pair of Levis , feeds six hollow points flawlessly and weighs almost nothing . Several of our deputy sheriffs carry them as summer off-duty pieces , which is how I discovered the convenience .""","""That is a nice little pistol with lots of smack for only 11 onces . Also , I like DA automatics .""",AGREE,"""is . of a""","""is of . , I""",,
37224,9760,"""1 . ) Refusing to comment on scientific procedure means absolutely nothing . Maybe we do n't have anything to say . 2 . ) Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong .""","""# 2 was questioning the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer""",DISAGREE,"""Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong .""","""# 2 was questioning the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer""",,
37222,9760,"""1 . ) Refusing to comment on scientific procedure means absolutely nothing . Maybe we do n't have anything to say . 2 . ) Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong .""","""# 2 was questioning the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer""",DISAGREE,"""2 Testing your beliefs of your own scientific conclusions is not wrong .""","""# 2 was questioning the personal , non-scientific beliefs of the evolution believer""",,
37228,9761,"""Those quotes have nothing to do with abortion . This one has to do with babys in the woumb `` Befor I formmed you in the woumb , I knew you , and before you were born I consecrated you ; I appointed you a prophet amoungst nations `` Jeremiah 1:4-5 I think this is rellavent because God wants everyone to be a prophet who he can work through .""","""If that were true , why are there millions of miscarriages each year ? I do n't believe a word of it .""",DISAGREE,"""I think this is rellavent because God wants everyone to be a prophet who he can work through .""","""If that were true , why are there millions of miscarriages each year ? I do n't believe a word of it .""",,
37235,9762,"""I jsut voted . sorry if some people actually have , you know , LIVES and do n't sit around all day on debate forums to cater to some atheists posts that he thiks they should drop everything for . As to the rest of your post , well , from your attitude I can tell you are not Christian in the least . Therefore I am content in knowing where people that spew garbage like this will end up in the End .""","""No , let me guess . . . er . . . McDonalds . No , Disneyland . Am I getting closer ?""",DISAGREE,"""I can tell you are not Christian in the least . Therefore I am content in knowing where people that spew garbage like this will end up in the End .""","""No , let me guess . . . er . . . McDonalds . No , Disneyland . Am I getting closer ?""",,
37299,9781,"""Gavin Newsom- I expected more from him when I supported him in the 2003 election . He showed himself as a family-man/Catholic , but he ended up being the exact oppisate , supporting abortion , and giving homosexuals marriage licenses . I love San Francisco , but I hate the people . Sometimes , the people make me want to move to Sacramento or DC to fix things up .""","""And what is wrong with giving homosexuals the right to settle down with the person they love ? What is it to you if a few limp-wrists get married in San Francisco ? Homosexuals are people , too , who take out their garbage , pay their taxes , go to work , take care of their dogs , and what they do in their bedroom is none of your business .""",DISAGREE,"""He showed himself as a family-man/Catholic , but he ended up being the exact oppisate , supporting abortion , and giving homosexuals marriage licenses .""","""what is wrong with giving homosexuals the right to settle down with the person they love ?""",,
37300,9782,"""I do n't think they are very smart .""","""Of course they 're not very smart ; they put more stock in fable than in undeniable evidence . However , since when is intelligence a necessary component of effect ? ( Dubya has affected the entire world ; does that mean he 's a genius ? ) To be fair , that feedback could be interpreted in different ways : the `` flaws in arguments `` might be from the DVDs , or they might be the alleged flaws that the DVDs `` expose. ``""",AGREE,"""I do n't think they are very smart .""","""Of course they 're not very smart ; they put more stock in fable than in undeniable evidence . :""",,
37308,9784,"""Stellar and Planetary Evolution : origin of stars and planets""","""You mean that the planets and stars have always existed ? Really - so how come we see stars being made in nurseries via the Hubble telescope .""",DISAGREE,"""and Planetary Evolution : origin of stars and planets""","""the planets and stars have always existed ?""",,
37347,9790,"""Prove that Biblical creation is a lie""","""No . I have never stated that Biblical creation is a lie . I have stated that a literal interpretation of it has been proven false beyond all reasonable doubt .""",DISAGREE,"""Prove that Biblical creation is a lie""","""No . I have never stated that Biblical creation is a lie .""",,
37374,9793,"""But there was a big evolutionary hyp over this and some people were saying `` They are just that close in showing how life could come from non-life. ``""","""Really ? I suspect that you have been duped by creationist ministers . There is no hype about Miller/Urey . It was an interesting experiment that demonstrated possibilities .""",DISAGREE,"""But there was a big evolutionary hyp over this and some people were saying `` They are just that close in showing how life could come from non-life. ``""","""Really ? I suspect that you have been duped by creationist ministers .""",,
37383,9795,"""Recent studies apparently show that pot is more harmful than you say . One joint is said to contain more carcinogens than four tobacco cigarettes . I doubt your 20,000 joints theory . You have a simplistic argument going for pot . I ca n't agree that legalizing all drugs would be a good thing either . Programs in Holland have failed to produce significant if any benefits to society in general . The druggies seem to have benefitted by having arrest-free drug zones and access to whatever they want , but the cost of drugs still requires some income , something that most of them likely do not have other than from crime , begging or social programs . One `` benefit `` I see from legalizing drugs is that the users could be more easily identified .""","""Yea the legalizatioin of drugs would cause an epedimic of problems . Crime , suicide , mental health problems , and physical health problems .""",AGREE,"""I ca n't agree that legalizing all drugs would be a good thing either . Programs in Holland have failed to produce significant if any benefits to society in general .""","""Yea the legalizatioin of drugs would cause an epedimic of problems . Crime , suicide , mental health problems , and physical health problems .""",,
37387,9796,"""`` Through precise radiometric clocks and clever stratigraphic connections `` If you have precise radiometric { clocks } why would you need { clever } stratigraphic connections ? I want one of them radiometric clocks ! ROFL ! This is best described by the phrase . If you ca n't dazzle 'em with brilliance , baffle them with bs . They used to say we date the rocks by the fossils and the fossils by the rocks but this sounds better . At least to you it seems .""","""Any geologists want to help me out here ? What they mean by this is that there are sediments in one place and sediments in another place . They can date them radiometrically to determine that they are both from the Edicarian period ( even though they may be seperated by millions of years ) . They then verify that they are Edicarian by looking at the layering to determine if the two pieces were at one point connected , but are now seperated due to tectonics . I 'm sure I 'm not entirely correct about these methods . I think I 'd better study up on some of these qeustions HERE . Maybe you should too .""",DISAGREE,"""Through precise radiometric clocks and clever stratigraphic connections `` If you have precise radiometric { clocks } why would you need { clever } stratigraphic connections ?""","""Any geologists want to help me out here ? What they mean by this is that there are sediments in one place and sediments in another place .""",,
37405,9800,"""Prove that it is untrustworthy ... It is an organization of professionals and is as trustworthy as any other Professional organization .""","""This was done in my post # 7 of this thread . I showed that the research articles NARTH claims to quote say something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what NARTH pretends ...""",DISAGREE,"""Prove that it is untrustworthy is as trustworthy as any other Professional organization""","""was done in my post # 7 research articles NARTH claims to quote say something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than what NARTH""",,
37412,9801,"""This is truly one of the most idiotic `` FAQs `` I have ever seen . Though when I say idiotic I really mean `` dishonest `` . And when I say `` FAQs `` I mean piles of steaming turd . You appear to have cut and pasted this from a website created by a 15 year old . http : //members.tripod.com/~antilemming/main.htm in 1997 . Although you have taken out the bit about how maybe Stalin did n't really kill many people . I am astounded by the logic . In the original FAQ , China and Vietnam are also identified as `` successful socialist states `` , and North Korea as a `` socialist state `` , along with glorious Cuba .""","""You listed the wrong website it is from the YCLUSA , they never talked about Stalin , and China and Vietnam have less laws limiting Capitalism than the US does so thay do n't count . Oh yes and I as a communist have read more than this like Communist Manifesto , Das Kapital , and The State and Revolution . and I have read much history of the USSR and I frequently visit a communist forum . And I have read the Soviet documents from the 30 's , most `` Modern Information `` comes from Nazi William Hearst , Robert Conquest , and The Fascist Alexander Solzhenitsyn .""",DISAGREE,"""You appear to have cut and pasted this from a website created by a 15 year old . http : //members.tripod.com/~antilemming/main.htm in 1997""","""You listed the wrong website it is from the YCLUSA , they never talked about Stalin , and China and Vietnam have less laws limiting Capitalism""",,
37426,9803,"""Does it have any use at all , aside from promoting a religious agenda ?""","""That is the only purpose it was created for . One must wonder if BS can have several uses to man and ID has but one which is the more valuable ?""",AGREE,"""Does it have any use at all , aside from promoting a religious agenda ?""","""That is the only purpose it was created for . One""",,
37436,9804,"""The purpose of this thread is to continue/reboot the debate between myself and Chuz Life within the general topic of abortion legality .""","""Fair enough . However , before we start I would like to clarify a few minor points in your opening challenge .""",AGREE,"""The purpose of this thread is to continue/reboot the debate between myself and Chuz Life within the general topic of abortion legality .""","""Fair enough . However , before we start I would like to clarify a few minor points in your opening challenge .""",,
37455,9806,"""Is this another personal attack ? Or is it killing you that i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda so you feel you must lash out like an angry child ? Is that your issue lyteboy ?""","""You can do whatever you want to do with your money . The fact that you do n't know any better than to do that with your money is telling , though . If you think that the C ( R ) SC actually does ID-based scientific research , you 're exactly the dupe they 're looking for . I 'm serious . Do the research for yourself . I wo n't even give you links , because you 'll blow them off as propaganda . Find any scientific journal article written by a DI member that 's actually based on actual scientific experimentation or investigation and supports ID . I dare you .""",DISAGREE,"""Is this another personal attack ? Or is it killing you that i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda so you feel you must lash out like an angry child ?""","""You can do whatever you want to do with your money . The fact that you do n't know any better than to do that with your money is telling ,""",,
37457,9806,"""Is this another personal attack ? Or is it killing you that i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda so you feel you must lash out like an angry child ? Is that your issue lyteboy ?""","""You can do whatever you want to do with your money . The fact that you do n't know any better than to do that with your money is telling , though . If you think that the C ( R ) SC actually does ID-based scientific research , you 're exactly the dupe they 're looking for . I 'm serious . Do the research for yourself . I wo n't even give you links , because you 'll blow them off as propaganda . Find any scientific journal article written by a DI member that 's actually based on actual scientific experimentation or investigation and supports ID . I dare you .""",DISAGREE,"""is it killing you that i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda""","""You can do whatever you want to do with your money .""",,
37451,9806,"""Is this another personal attack ? Or is it killing you that i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda so you feel you must lash out like an angry child ? Is that your issue lyteboy ?""","""You can do whatever you want to do with your money . The fact that you do n't know any better than to do that with your money is telling , though . If you think that the C ( R ) SC actually does ID-based scientific research , you 're exactly the dupe they 're looking for . I 'm serious . Do the research for yourself . I wo n't even give you links , because you 'll blow them off as propaganda . Find any scientific journal article written by a DI member that 's actually based on actual scientific experimentation or investigation and supports ID . I dare you .""",DISAGREE,"""i would donate money to an organization that opposes your secular humanist agenda""","""Find any scientific journal article written by a DI member that 's actually based on actual scientific experimentation or investigation and supports ID . I dare you .""",,
37474,9809,"""Same with birds -- who all look basically the same in a given population .""","""How something `` looks basically `` is basically irrelevant . How well a bird flies is very important . If a bird is born with feathers in the wrong position , it will probably not fly well and will have a much harder time evading predators .""",DISAGREE,"""who all look basically the same in a given population""","""How something `` looks basically `` is basically irrelevant .""",,
37486,9811,"""the evolutionists ont he other hand ( YECs anyway ) .... well , that one is a no brainer . I personally can not find fault witht he intelligent design folks who feel that god guided evolution , since to disprove this you essentially have to disprove the existance of god , and nobody has ever managed to do so ( though the concept of an invisible man in the sky is a little silly ) .""","""Right . Spoken like a true YEC . In other words , you want the state to teach your religion in science class . Why the dishonest posing ? Why do n't you explain to us how your religious mythology is science ? If you get to teach your religion , can I teach mine ?""",DISAGREE,"""I personally can not find fault witht he intelligent design folks who feel that god""","""Why the dishonest posing ? Why do n't you explain to us how your religious mythology""",,
37491,9812,"""Its kinda like the germans after slow and steady progress of the nazi party changed the whole nation 's perspective on the jews .""","""And Godwin in one ! VT loses . Sorry , but those are the rules ...""",DISAGREE,"""Its kinda like the germans""","""And Godwin in one""",,
37501,9814,"""This argument is self-defeating . A theory is not a fact , no matter how much evidence may support the theory . Bad wording . But again , if you claim something as a fact , you must have proof , verified in both your method of reasoning , and the reasoning utilized by the person you are proving the fact to .""","""A fact is simply a phenomenon that is observable by any competent observer . It is not proven . For example , Euclid made the assumption that one and only one straight line exists between two points . This is generally considered a fact . However , two points that can not be connected by a straight line could be discovered tomorrow , and that Euclid 's first postulate would be disproven .""",DISAGREE,"""A theory is not a fact , no matter how much evidence may support the theory""","""This is generally considered a fact . However , two points""",,
37499,9814,"""This argument is self-defeating . A theory is not a fact , no matter how much evidence may support the theory . Bad wording . But again , if you claim something as a fact , you must have proof , verified in both your method of reasoning , and the reasoning utilized by the person you are proving the fact to .""","""A fact is simply a phenomenon that is observable by any competent observer . It is not proven . For example , Euclid made the assumption that one and only one straight line exists between two points . This is generally considered a fact . However , two points that can not be connected by a straight line could be discovered tomorrow , and that Euclid 's first postulate would be disproven .""",DISAGREE,"""A theory is not a fact , no matter how much evidence may support the theory .""","""A fact is simply a phenomenon that is observable by any competent observer .""",,
37498,9814,"""This argument is self-defeating . A theory is not a fact , no matter how much evidence may support the theory . Bad wording . But again , if you claim something as a fact , you must have proof , verified in both your method of reasoning , and the reasoning utilized by the person you are proving the fact to .""","""A fact is simply a phenomenon that is observable by any competent observer . It is not proven . For example , Euclid made the assumption that one and only one straight line exists between two points . This is generally considered a fact . However , two points that can not be connected by a straight line could be discovered tomorrow , and that Euclid 's first postulate would be disproven .""",DISAGREE,"""if you claim something as a fact , you must have proof ,""","""A fact is simply a phenomenon that is observable by any competent observer . It is not proven""",,
37509,9823,"""If I was a creationist , I 'd try to avoid discussing the merits of my belief.Which is probably why you are not a creationist . But consider it from the point of view of a true believer . First comes the ideology , any discussion of that ideology will by a true believer will FIND justifications after the fact of the belief . SS is a good example of this . As is I suppose WW . Ideologues first arrive at the belief and then find justifications for it . Scientists study data and obeservations and draw conclusions which those data and observations support . The two approaches are entirely separate and opposed to one another . Scientists draw inferences , true believers make declarations of faith .""","""* * Which is why you darwinists , for all that you parade yourselves as 'scientists ' , are really nothing but 'true believers ' , intent upon evangelizing your core ideology , materialist atheism .""",DISAGREE,"""But consider it from the point of view of a true believer . First comes the ideology , any discussion of that ideology will by a true believer will FIND justifications after the fact of the belief .""","""Which is why you darwinists , for all that you parade yourselves as 'scientists ' , are really nothing but 'true believers ' , intent upon evangelizing your core ideology , materialist atheism .""",,
37535,9828,"""The theory of aggregated production , which is the point of the following book , nevertheless can be much easier adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state [ eines totalen Staates ] than the theory of production and distribution of a given production put forth under conditions of free competition and a large degree of laissez-faire . This is one of the reasons that justifies the fact that I call my theory a general theory . Since it is based on fewer hypotheses than the orthodox theory , it can accommodate itself all the easier to a wider field of varying conditions . Although I have , after all , worked it out with a view to the conditions prevailing in the Anglo-Saxon countries where a large degree of laissez-faire still prevails , nevertheless it remains applicable to situations in which state management is more pronounced . For the theory of psychological laws which bring consumption and saving into relationship with each other , the influence of loan expenditures on prices , and real wages , the role played by the rate of interest—all these basic ideas also remain under such conditions necessary parts of our plan of thought .""","""And no , Simone , a market is a metaphor for countless individual relationships . To say it should be regulated is to say the government should interfere with consensual relationships .. To say that consensual relationships are immoral and that interfering with them is moral is turning morality on it 's head ; .""",DISAGREE,"""The theory of aggregated production , which is the point of the following book , nevertheless can be much easier adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state [ eines totalen Staates ] than the theory of production and distribution of a given production put forth under conditions of free competition and a large degree of laissez-faire .""","""To say it should be regulated is to say the government should interfere with consensual relationships ..""",,
37534,9828,"""The theory of aggregated production , which is the point of the following book , nevertheless can be much easier adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state [ eines totalen Staates ] than the theory of production and distribution of a given production put forth under conditions of free competition and a large degree of laissez-faire . This is one of the reasons that justifies the fact that I call my theory a general theory . Since it is based on fewer hypotheses than the orthodox theory , it can accommodate itself all the easier to a wider field of varying conditions . Although I have , after all , worked it out with a view to the conditions prevailing in the Anglo-Saxon countries where a large degree of laissez-faire still prevails , nevertheless it remains applicable to situations in which state management is more pronounced . For the theory of psychological laws which bring consumption and saving into relationship with each other , the influence of loan expenditures on prices , and real wages , the role played by the rate of interest—all these basic ideas also remain under such conditions necessary parts of our plan of thought .""","""And no , Simone , a market is a metaphor for countless individual relationships . To say it should be regulated is to say the government should interfere with consensual relationships .. To say that consensual relationships are immoral and that interfering with them is moral is turning morality on it 's head ; .""",DISAGREE,"""The theory of aggregated production can be much easier adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state""","""no , a market is a metaphor for countless individual relationships . To say it should be regulated is to say the government should interfere with consensual relationships""",,
37546,9831,"""[ Not arguing with creationists ] This is not because I can not answer their arguments , but because I have better things to do with my time and I do not want to give them the oxygen of publicity .""","""Well either way he did n't answer the question . I saw the video . I saw and heard his responce . He ca n't squirm his way out of the fact that he did n't know the answer . The internet site also quotes :""",DISAGREE,"""This is not because I can not answer their arguments""","""He ca n't squirm his way out of the fact that he did n't know the answer .""",,
37557,9834,"""The Supreme Sovereign ordered the water god Gong Gong to create a flood as punishment and warning for human misbehavior . Gong Gong extended the flood for 22 years , and people had to live in high mountain caves and in trees , fighting with wild animals for scarce resources . Unable to persuade the Supreme Sovereign to stop the flood , and told by an owl and a turkey about _Xirang_ or Growing Soil , the supernatural hero Gun stole Growing Soil from heaven to dam the waters . Before Gun was finished , however , the Supreme Sovereign sent the fire god Zhu Rong to execute him for his theft . The Growing Soil was taken back to heaven , and the floods continued . However , Gun 's body did n't decay , and when it was cut apart three years later , his son Yu emerged in the form of a horned dragon . Gun 's body also transformed into a dragon at that time and thenceforth lived quietly in the deeps . The Supreme Sovereign was fearful of Yu 's power , so he cooperated and gave Yu the Growing Soil and the use of the dragon Ying . Yu led other gods to drive away Gong Gong , distributed the Growing Soil to remove most of the flood , and led the people to fashion rivers from Ying 's tracks and thus channel the remaining floodwaters to the sea . [ Walls , pp . 94-100 ]""","""Show of hands , how many people think that is the same story ? Flood Stories from Around the World""",DISAGREE,"""The Supreme Sovereign was fearful of Yu 's power , so he cooperated and gave Yu the Growing Soil and the use of the dragon Ying .""","""Flood Stories from Around the World""",,
37559,9834,"""The Supreme Sovereign ordered the water god Gong Gong to create a flood as punishment and warning for human misbehavior . Gong Gong extended the flood for 22 years , and people had to live in high mountain caves and in trees , fighting with wild animals for scarce resources . Unable to persuade the Supreme Sovereign to stop the flood , and told by an owl and a turkey about _Xirang_ or Growing Soil , the supernatural hero Gun stole Growing Soil from heaven to dam the waters . Before Gun was finished , however , the Supreme Sovereign sent the fire god Zhu Rong to execute him for his theft . The Growing Soil was taken back to heaven , and the floods continued . However , Gun 's body did n't decay , and when it was cut apart three years later , his son Yu emerged in the form of a horned dragon . Gun 's body also transformed into a dragon at that time and thenceforth lived quietly in the deeps . The Supreme Sovereign was fearful of Yu 's power , so he cooperated and gave Yu the Growing Soil and the use of the dragon Ying . Yu led other gods to drive away Gong Gong , distributed the Growing Soil to remove most of the flood , and led the people to fashion rivers from Ying 's tracks and thus channel the remaining floodwaters to the sea . [ Walls , pp . 94-100 ]""","""Show of hands , how many people think that is the same story ? Flood Stories from Around the World""",DISAGREE,"""The Supreme Sovereign ordered the water god Gong Gong to create a flood as punishment and warning for human misbehavior .""","""Show of hands , how many people think that is the same story ? Flood Stories from Around the World""",,
37564,9835,"""I do think you are ignorant of much that would beneficially inform your hypotheses ,""","""* * True , but then , who is not ? Yourself , perhaps ?""",DISAGREE,"""I do think you are ignorant of much that would beneficially inform your hypotheses""","""True , but then , who is not ? Yourself , perhaps ?""",,
37574,9839,"""Originally posted by thistownwilleat Mr. Konsen speculates that the word  “ arms ” encompasses nearly the whole of the modern military arsenal . ( See Mr. Konsen ’ s paper , http : //www.cga94.com/contributors/stuff/arms/iii.htm to see his explaination . ) '' -- So ... then the laws that say that I ca n't own a tank are unconstitutional ?""","""It is not speculation . When the 2nd Amendment was written , modern military weapons were flint lock rifles . The whole purpose of the 2nd Amendment was so common people could fight off a state armed with modern military weapons . Today the weapons have changed , but the need or the intent has not . The 2nd Amendment does not mean we fight a tyrannical government with flint lock rifles .""",DISAGREE,"""Mr. Konsen speculates that the word  arms encompasses nearly the whole of the modern military arsenal '' the laws that say that I ca n't own a tank are unconstitutional ?""","""It is not speculation . When the 2nd Amendment was written , modern military weapons were flint lock rifles Today the weapons have changed , but the need or the intent has not .""",,
37586,9843,"""I personally am astounded at the overreaction of the government in response to a handfull of shootings in NO . Sending in the army in full force , confiscating guns and talking about an 'insurgency ' just because of a couple of crackpots have been firing their guns . On an average day in New York there are 10 times as many reports of shootings , yet I do n't see such a massive military response over there ...""","""Well , if they 've re-established control in New Orleans ( and it seems they have ) , then taking a gun away from someone carrying it on the street would be what the police normally do in any city . If they were taking it away from peoples ' homes , and not letting them keep them , that would be over and above what they normally do . ( I 'm very pro-2nd Amendment , so do n't get me wrong here . I 'm just pointing out that taking guns away from people happens in every city every day ) I also think that it 's kind of disingenuous to complain about the military coming in -- just a week ago everyone was criticizing the govt . for NOT sending in the military . Now people are criticizing them for doing it ? ? ?""",DISAGREE,"""I personally am astounded overreaction of the government handfull of shootings Sending in the army in full force , couple of crackpots have been firing their guns massive military response""","""re-established control taking a gun away from someone carrying it I 'm just pointing out that taking guns away it 's kind of disingenuous to complain about the military criticizing NOT sending in the military""",,
37602,9845,"""hahahahahah . That place is holy water to vampires . Arch and Cash will never post there . Arch and Cash arguing honest arguments where they ca n't threaten eternal damnation , call people liars and insult them as the basis of their arguments ? never going to happen .""","""Typical little child , all he can offer is condescending insults while never daring to refute the arguments made . But you 're in good company as that is all your cohorts can do also . You must reject and denigrate that which is just as reasonable an explanation of the available evidence as your side offers . That 's why it 's a waste of time going around in circles with you guys . But I 've made my point . Again , What is shown very clearly from all of these scientific interpretation of the same evidence is that there are two ways to interpret it . But for you evos to claim victory based on your interpretation which is as biased as ours is , is the epitome of arrogance . We may have to agree to disagree peeling , but do n't you dare just assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""",DISAGREE,"""That place is holy water to vampires .""","""We may have to agree to disagree peeling ,""",,
37608,9846,"""Well , if you were a herbavore it might be a good place to temporarily store plant matter to allow bacteria to break it down so that nutrients would be available to you . But of course you are n't and so it is neither good nor bad until infected . Well , actually it 's good since it does seem to have a role in the immune system , a role that is shared with the rest of the small intestine . But the small intestine has a different , more obvious role too .""","""Still it is a good example for a flaw in our body that God would n't have put there for any good reason other than to cause pain and death in the unfortunate few .""",DISAGREE,"""herbavore it might be a good place to temporarily store plant matter to allow bacteria to break it down""","""Still it is a good example for a flaw in our body that God would n't have put there for any good reason""",,
37609,9846,"""Well , if you were a herbavore it might be a good place to temporarily store plant matter to allow bacteria to break it down so that nutrients would be available to you . But of course you are n't and so it is neither good nor bad until infected . Well , actually it 's good since it does seem to have a role in the immune system , a role that is shared with the rest of the small intestine . But the small intestine has a different , more obvious role too .""","""Still it is a good example for a flaw in our body that God would n't have put there for any good reason other than to cause pain and death in the unfortunate few .""",DISAGREE,"""if you were a herbavore it might be a good place to temporarily store""","""Still it is a good example""",,
37620,9848,"""If you use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",DISAGREE,"""use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",,
37617,9848,"""If you use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",,
37616,9848,"""If you use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",DISAGREE,"""If you use both faith AND reason to support your belief , you are using circular reasoning .""","""Really ?""",,
37626,9849,"""Both groups have used the courts to further their own agenda .""","""Our agenda is incorporation and equal treatment . What 's yours ?""",DISAGREE,"""Both groups have used the courts to further their own agenda .""","""Our agenda is incorporation and equal treatment .""",,
37635,9858,"""In developed nations with stricter gun laws there are less murders .""","""Is supposed to be logical but is a fallacy oft repeated to lure unsuspecting readers to your conclusion without any factual evidence . It is similar to the claim `` stricter gun laws prevent suicides `` . We know this is false from Japan 's history and statistics . We also know from criminologist and sociologists that method substitution does nothing to prevent suicides . In fact , in kanada , suicides increased with stricter gun laws ... another failed experiment . YOUR hint of `` developed nations `` is misleading and by presentation you try to lure the reader into thinking that gun control only exists in `` developed nations `` as if there is a superiority in people who inhabit them . Tell you what star gazer , list the `` undeveloped nations `` . I would say your nation is barbaric and undeveloped At the very least , you demonstrate it is uneducated""",DISAGREE,"""In developed nations with stricter gun laws there are less murders .""","""is a fallacy repeated to lure unsuspecting readers to your conclusion without any factual evidence .""",,
37633,9858,"""In developed nations with stricter gun laws there are less murders .""","""Is supposed to be logical but is a fallacy oft repeated to lure unsuspecting readers to your conclusion without any factual evidence . It is similar to the claim `` stricter gun laws prevent suicides `` . We know this is false from Japan 's history and statistics . We also know from criminologist and sociologists that method substitution does nothing to prevent suicides . In fact , in kanada , suicides increased with stricter gun laws ... another failed experiment . YOUR hint of `` developed nations `` is misleading and by presentation you try to lure the reader into thinking that gun control only exists in `` developed nations `` as if there is a superiority in people who inhabit them . Tell you what star gazer , list the `` undeveloped nations `` . I would say your nation is barbaric and undeveloped At the very least , you demonstrate it is uneducated""",DISAGREE,"""In developed nations with stricter gun laws there are less murders .""","""I would say your nation is barbaric and undeveloped At the very least""",,
37678,9867,"""The fossil , genetic , and observed evidences that scientists base the theory of evolution on .""","""Oh , so you 're telling me that all of that `` evidence `` is 100 % true and beyond a reason of a doubt ?""",DISAGREE,"""The fossil , genetic , and observed evidences that scientists base the theory of evolution on .""","""Oh , so you 're telling me that all of that `` evidence `` is 100 % true and beyond a reason of a doubt ?""",,
37680,9867,"""The fossil , genetic , and observed evidences that scientists base the theory of evolution on .""","""Oh , so you 're telling me that all of that `` evidence `` is 100 % true and beyond a reason of a doubt ?""",DISAGREE,"""The fossil , genetic , and observed evidences that scientists base the theory of evolution on .""","""so you 're telling me that all of that `` evidence `` is 100 % true and beyond a reason of a doubt ?""",,
37691,9869,"""And you call atheism the curse ?""","""Worse , as Plato said , it is like a disease in the brain . When Christianity , or the Politicalzation of Religion has gone wrong , there is a standard , a moral standard , that declares this wrong . Consider , Nuremburg Trails , when the Nazis said , they were just answering to a higher authority and follow Party power , the judge declared , that they broke their own Laws , and they would answer to a HIGHER POWER - GOD . Case closed , we over road their relativism , or Nazis morality and condemned many to death . So , in every case , when Christians , or those foolishly acting in the name of Christianity have gone wrong , they are condemned by an objective moral standard . Athiesim has no such standard , and I do n't want to hear about relative `` ethics `` that mean nothing , or have no longevity , or change with the winds .""",DISAGREE,"""And you call atheism the curse ?""","""Worse , as Plato said , it is like a disease in the brain""",,
37698,9871,"""How else do explain that unknown influence in you that insists that you do things ?""","""Easy . There are none . I think about what I do and do what seems best in any given situation .""",DISAGREE,"""How else do explain that unknown influence in you that insists that you do things ?""","""Easy . There are none . I think about what I do and do what seems best in any given situation""",,
37706,9873,"""Meaning , I take it , pure chance , accident , or just plain 'luck ' .""","""No , I mean evolution , in which statistically random variation is but one factor . It 's a terrible mistake to equate evolution with pure chance .""",DISAGREE,"""Meaning , I take it , pure chance , accident , or just plain 'luck ' .""","""No , I mean evolution , in which statistically random variation is but one factor .""",,
37742,9881,"""`` There is no proof that God exists `` is quite accurate . Only the deepest philosophy will come to the point of seriously debating the fault in the statement , which is that as we are posessed of imperfect knowledge we can not deny the possibility that some as yet undiscovered proof of god might exist . In this case , we 'd modify the statement to `` There is no known proof that God exists. `` However , in the context , what you are doing is not deep philosophy , but nitpicking . As for the laws of logic , once more I shall try to explain from another angle : logic , mathematics and similar are ways in which we describe the universe . Take an apple . Take another apple . Now you have two apples , but you do n't actually have two of the same things . You just recognize that apples are similar one to another and that it is reasonable to invent the nonexistent context of an abstract apple .""","""All you have said is there are two apples . I noticed you said  “ describe ” , I can describe what a chair is , but that description is not the chair itself . Are the apples the `` law of non-contradiction `` ?""",DISAGREE,"""you have two apples , but you do n't actually have two of the same things""","""All you have said is there are two apples can describe what a chair is , but that description is not the chair itself .""",,
37759,9884,"""So , I could certainly see , if variation was truly random that selection could theoretically pick from a pool of random variants . Unfortunately for evolutionists , the concept of randomness when it comes to new traits has never actually been proven . In fact , whenever animals experience an environmental shift , they have this bad habit of shifting right along with it , starting with an internal response from each creature who somehow `` senses `` this change . It 's hardly logical to call this random . But if each individual of a population experiences the same environmental cue , and each member simultaneously evolves the same traits epigenetically , not only will this speed up evolution exponentially , but it will also give each member the same traits at the same time -- which ultimately gives them the same basic fitness -- -- - which undermines natural selection , making mortality/breeding success mostly a lottery of circumstance , with a little sexual selection thrown in .""","""Well , yes , but this begs the question of whether , even assuming epigenetic inheritance is real , all individuals would experience the same epigenetic alterations . Now , I have no problem with the concept of epigenetic inheritance . But even if it were true it would n't do away with natural selection . Just as with basic genetic mutation , which is n't going to go away , one would expect some individuals to exhibit epigenetic alterations and others not to . This still means a population containing a range of variants that natural selection can act on , preserving some epigenetic alterations as opposed to others . Of course , if the claim is that epigenetic alterations are somehow directed by the environment , i.e . are teleological in origin , then the onus is on the advocates to demonstrate how this direction occurs . Until they do , there is no reason to suppose there is any direction at all .""",AGREE,"""if variation was truly random that selection could theoretically pick from a pool of random variants the concept of randomness when it comes to new traits has never actually been proven have this bad habit of shifting right along with it , making mortality/breeding success mostly a lottery of circumstance""","""Well , yes it would n't do away with natural selection one would expect some individuals to exhibit epigenetic alterations and others not to means a population containing a range of variants that natural selection can act the onus is on the advocates to demonstrate how this direction occurs""",,
37776,9892,"""Abortion is murder .""","""Yes , according to JimmyJ . God , the laws regarding murder from all over the world , have absolutely no impact upon the holy proclamations emanating from JimmyJ .""",DISAGREE,"""Abortion is murder .""","""Yes , according to JimmyJ . God , the laws regarding murder from all over the world""",,
37789,9895,"""So far there is no mechanism for an organism to grow wings when it previously had none .""","""Well , actually there is . Bat wings for example are one of the easier problems for evolution to solve ( we can even see potential transitional stages in other animals like the flying squirrel ) . The co-option of existing structures is the bread and butter of evolution . Now , if bats and birds had four legs and wings , that would be more of a head-scratcher .""",DISAGREE,"""So far there is no mechanism for an organism to grow wings when it previously had none""","""Well , actually there is""",,
37795,9897,"""You missed the point ! Later in Life , Freud condicted himself and saluted the Theologian AND God ! Now , look , we all evolve , and grow our childish beliefs ( e.g . atheism ) I will go further , NO one is an Atheist on their Death bed .""","""Crappola ! I say `` bless you `` when someone sneezes and often identify myself as Catholic as I am from a Catholic family and am in fact `` confirmed `` . That do n't me I actually buy any of it . Do n't try to make Freud out to be a member of `` the flock `` later in life . That 's pure nonsense . Do you know what a figure of speech is ?""",DISAGREE,"""You missed the point ! Later in Life , Freud condicted himself and saluted the Theologian AND God ! , NO one is an Atheist on their Death bed .""","""Do n't try to make Freud out to be a member of `` the flock `` later in life . That 's pure nonsense .""",,
37799,9898,"""Any two adults can run the household , one can make the decision if the other is incapacitated , one inherits when the other dies , etc etc . That parallel does not carry over to group marriages . When one dies , who inherits ? If one is incapacitied , who decides what the treatment should be ? Basically , pretty much none of the marriage benefit laws that are on the book make any sense for groups of more than two , so recongnising group marriages is a huge legal task , and one for which the outcomes are far from obvious . If we 're talking about legal recognition , and we are ( right ? ) , then the cases are wildly different . Our marriage laws , for better or worse , are set up on the assumption of two adults running a household . They also assume man and wife , true , but do n't actually depend on that . But the dependence on there being two people is embedded in the laws ; changing that is a huge project .""","""Yes , but gays would also want laws changed to accomodate THEIR form of marriage as well . The fact that one requires less change than the other should n't matter , should it ? Should having to do more reworking of laws and more paperwork hinder the pursuit of equality ? It seems to me your argument boils down to `` polygamy requires more work to make the laws accomodate it. `` Yeah -- such is the price for marriage equality . Let 's face it -- if society really wanted to make marriage an open-ended institution of equality rather than for opposite-sex couples which comprise most relationships , they could pull it off -- polygamy , gays , letting 17 year olds marry , etc . All those civil servants are there and can do it as directed as legislation is changed . Means could be set up to determine inheritance , for example . Laws can be worded to do it .""",DISAGREE,"""But the dependence on there being two people is embedded in the laws ; changing that is a huge project .""","""The fact that one requires less change than the other should n't matter , should it ? Should having to do more reworking of laws and more paperwork hinder the pursuit of equality ?""",,
37817,9901,"""Perhaps so . But you realize that the reason it gets used in medicine is because it works . Did you know , for example , that clindamycin , an antibiotic , can be used to safely kill certain non-bacterial parasites ? Do you know why ? Check out Carl Zimmer 's excellent Parasite Rex for the answer .""","""So you ’ re saying we would not have clindamycin without the ToE ? The ToE is supposed to be defined as changes in alleles , not changes in anything someone wishes to assign it to . It seems that in addition to the term evolution being broadened to mean just about any change , it is also substituted for the word  “ science ” at will . Notice how it was done in post # 2 above . The word  “ evolution ” was dropped , and the word  “ science ” replaced it . What are the possibilities that evolution is  “ brought in as a narrative gloss ” after a discovery , rather than being a cornerstone of all of biology , or all of science ? CSC - Why Do We Invoke Darwin ?""",DISAGREE,"""Do you know why ? Check out Carl Zimmer 's excellent Parasite Rex for the answer .""","""supposed to be defined as changes in alleles , not changes in anything someone wishes to assign it to""",,
37821,9902,"""Creationism is not something new , it was the prevailing view of scientists up until Darwin .""","""Oh . I know it 's not new . Being old does n't make it any more legitimate . Real science can tell the difference between valid and invalid .""",DISAGREE,"""Creationism is not something new , it was the prevailing view of scientists up until Darwin .""","""Being old does n't make it any more legitimate . Real science can tell the difference between valid and invalid .""",,
37831,9903,"""But why do you think that doubt limits people 's ideas ? If anything it helps to expand them .""","""It can go both ways . We all doubt . It is what you do with it that matters . [ quote=gnojek ] If a child grew up never hearing the words religion , gods , spirits , etc . would this child still have faith of some sort ? Is faith some innate human tendency ? It could be seeing as how there is the `` god spot `` in the brain , but maybe the god spot would n't develop as fully in the child that was never exposed to religion or thoughts of the supernatural.QUOTE ] Look around . Faith did not spontaneously generate out of thin air . It is obviously part of our psyche . Every civilization throughout history has felt the need for some type of faith . Even on different sides of the planet . It 's as natural as the sun rising .""",DISAGREE,"""why do you think that doubt limits people 's ideas ?""","""It can go both ways .""",,
37834,9904,"""Next time you walk into your doctor 's office , please notice that there 's no literature about how to control inflammation naturally .... instead , his walls , magazine racks and end tables are littered with advertisements for expensive drugs . It 's all about the money ..... and it 's money that fuels corruption .""","""just is n't the case in countries with nationalised health care , yet those countries also have a large number of pharmaceutical companies that are based there .""",DISAGREE,"""Next time you walk into your doctor 's office , please notice that there 's no literature about how to control inflammation naturally""","""just is n't the case in countries with nationalised health care , yet those countries also have a large number of pharmaceutical companies that are based there .""",,
37848,9908,"""What do I have against abortion ? Hmmm , let me think . I guess there is that little fact that it is MURDER !""","""Abortion does not fit the definition of murder .""",DISAGREE,"""I guess there is that little fact that it is MURDER !""","""Abortion does not fit the definition of murder .""",,
37852,9910,"""Society 's willingness to impose on women alone the sacrifice required by laws restricting abortion , unique within the landscape of Anglo-American law , may well reflect a deeply held traditional view of the differences in character of the sexes . While we might not impose selflessness and virtuous behavior on a man .... some may find it less of a contradiction to impose such virtue on a woman because of the traditional view of her nature . But to impose virtue on ANY person demeans that person 's individual worth . It is no more acceptable when the person is a woman than a man . There should be no 'woman 's exception ' to our traditional regard for individualism and autonomy . As long as these values remain at the core of our legal system , there is thus a powerful case for the conclusion that laws prohibiting abortion -- even IF the fetus is regarded as a person -- deny women the equal protection of the laws guaranteed to all by the 14th amendment . And if this is so , then perhaps the Roe decision , by gratuitously insisting that the fetus can not be deemed a person , needlessly insulted and alienated those for whom the view that the fetus is a person represents a fundamental article of faith or a bedrock personal committment . Perhaps as Yale Law School Dean Guido Calabresi has suggested , the Roe opinion for no good reason said to a large and politically active group `` [ y ] our metaphysics are not part of our Constitution. `` The Court could have indeed have said : Even if the fetus is a person , our Constitution forbids compelling a woman to carry it for nine months and become a mother""","""Just an add-on and hopefully thought-provoking .""",DISAGREE,"""law , may well reflect a deeply held traditional view of the differences in character of the sexes .""","""Just an add-on and hopefully thought-provoking""",,
37903,9921,"""I don ’ t know about you , but if I take a step back , and look at this big picture , with all these beings debating over whether or not these arguments can philosophically or morally hold water , I can ’ t help but think of it as the grossest , darkest tease life can contain . Here we are , debating philosophy , which is a celebration of life and the blessings of existence , and all the while these  “ would-be beings ” are getting blotted out of existence by the very dance that is our celebration . We rejoice in our lives in these debates , and flaunt that merriment by using it as a means to keep others out of life . I think about it and I feel like reality is being raped in some abhorrent way – like their reality is being raped by ours . Thinking about it makes me nauseous .""","""I 'm confused by your rationale in your post as it is basically all over the place- perhaps you could clarify your position better . I disagree we are debating philosophy here but discussing far less abstract real world issues and how they relate to the matter of abortion .""",DISAGREE,"""Here we are , debating philosophy ,""","""I disagree we are debating philosophy here""",,
37926,9924,"""Lurch ? Wake up friend and open your eyes .""","""And instead place my faith in the mythology of nomadic herdsmen ? It is much more logical to believe in some all knowing but unknowable magic being who poofed everything into existance and then created all of the evidence to make it appear as if he did n't .""",DISAGREE,"""Lurch Wake up friend and open your eyes""","""everything into existance and then created all of the evidence to make it appear as if he did n't""",,
37933,9925,"""XXX ? ! She is n't allowed to walk down a public alley IYO ?""","""You know I 'm not saying that . Is there no alley you 'd avoid given the chance ? Was she looking for trouble ? Police would certainly want to know what she was doing there .""",DISAGREE,"""She is n't allowed to walk down a public alley IYO""","""Police would certainly want to know what she was doing there .""",,
37944,9926,"""I do agree with you on the surface , however where is the right to life organizations , in this article , statements of disapproval that a pregnant woman was tasered ? What if the woman had lost the baby because she was tasered would n't that be considered the police performing an abortion ?""","""What if pigs had wings , they would make huge birds . But what do `` what ifs `` have to do with what really happened ? The child did n't die and if it had , it would n't have been an abortion , it would have been between murder at the most , and negligent homicide , if not manslaughter , but not an abortion by any stretch of the law 's interpretation since abortions are legal . And had the fetus died , the cops would have been charged with a crime . This is what 's wrong with the premise of antonia 's thread subject here , yet she could n't discern that before posting this since she was intent on finding an avenue to attack pro-lifers with . And you are as irrational as she is for not seeing through her fallacious argument . After all , she ca n't even see how utterly hypocritical it is to blame pro-lifers for what occurred in this article while remaining oblivious to the carnage her pro-death ideology is responsible for to the tune of 1.4 million innocent children being killed each year in the USA alone .""",DISAGREE,"""however where is the right to life organizations""","""The child did n't die and if it had , it would n't have been an""",,
37940,9926,"""I do agree with you on the surface , however where is the right to life organizations , in this article , statements of disapproval that a pregnant woman was tasered ? What if the woman had lost the baby because she was tasered would n't that be considered the police performing an abortion ?""","""What if pigs had wings , they would make huge birds . But what do `` what ifs `` have to do with what really happened ? The child did n't die and if it had , it would n't have been an abortion , it would have been between murder at the most , and negligent homicide , if not manslaughter , but not an abortion by any stretch of the law 's interpretation since abortions are legal . And had the fetus died , the cops would have been charged with a crime . This is what 's wrong with the premise of antonia 's thread subject here , yet she could n't discern that before posting this since she was intent on finding an avenue to attack pro-lifers with . And you are as irrational as she is for not seeing through her fallacious argument . After all , she ca n't even see how utterly hypocritical it is to blame pro-lifers for what occurred in this article while remaining oblivious to the carnage her pro-death ideology is responsible for to the tune of 1.4 million innocent children being killed each year in the USA alone .""",DISAGREE,"""I do agree with you on the surface""","""But what do `` what ifs `` have to do with what really happened""",,
37952,9927,"""Why do people on the pro-gun side continuously try to oversimplify the issue ?""","""We could ask you the same thing . Why do you constantly try and oversimplify things by claiming that gun control will work , while at the same time not discussing matters relating to income , surroundings , upbringing , recidivism rates , prison sentences and other such matters ?""",DISAGREE,"""Why do people on the pro-gun side continuously try to oversimplify the issue ?""","""We could ask you the same thing .""",,
37963,9928,"""GEOLOGY : The Calibration of Ediacaran Time Alan J. Kaufman * More than a century ago , the last great geological period was formally ratified by an international committee . This was the final rocky step in the subdivision of deep time based on the evolutionary progression of animal fossils . However , recent years have seen the identification of an older and tumultuous new interval , the Ediacaran Period , during which Earth 's earliest soft-bodied organisms emerged in the oceans . This interval was recently ratified ( 1 ) , underscoring advances in the absolute dating ( 2-6 ) and worldwide correlation of geological strata that were deposited in isolated basins before true animals exploded onto the scene in the succeeding Cambrian Period . On page 95 of this issue , Condon et al . ( 7 ) present precise age constraints for the Ediacaran Period . The authors have analyzed volcanic dust in two key depositional layers in the Doushantuo Formation of southern China . Their radiometric dates provide important insights into the rates of geological and evolutionary processes . The first layer , with an age of about 635 million years , is at the base of the new interval , whereas the second , at about 550 million years , may constrain the age of an environmental disaster ( 8-10 ) that is closely associated with the rapid diversification of the Ediacara biota ( see the figure ) that lend their name to the new Period . http : //www.sciencemag.org/content/vo ... m/59-1-med.gif Figure 1 Early animals ? A pile of three-dimensionally preserved casts of the soft-bodied Ediacaran organism Ernietta from ~545 million-year-old sediments in the Nama Group of southern Namibia . The scale bar corresponds to 15 cm . Convention previously focused on the evolutionary first appearance of a specific fossil or assemblage to define the beginning of new geological periods . In contrast , the beginning of the Ediacaran period is defined by the base of a marine carbonate rock , which formed in southern Australia in the aftermath of a distinctive and potentially global ice age ( 11 , 12 ) . Equivalent glacial rocks occur immediately beneath similar carbonates at the base of the Doushantuo Formation . In the area studied by Condon et al. , the new ages constrain the Doushantuo Formation , which represents most of the Ediacaran Period , to some 85 million years -- a remarkably long interval for only about 100 m of rock . This observation begs the question : How much time may be missing in Ediacaran strata from southern China ? In the absence of dates between the two radiometric tie points , one must consider two possibilities : Either the sediments accumulated continuously , albeit slowly ( some two orders of magnitude more slowly than in similar environments of the same age ) , or there are breaks in time ( hiatuses or unconformities ) hidden within the poorly exposed layers . On the basis of limited physical data , Condon et al . suggest the presence of two such unconformities in their study area near the Yangtze Gorges . The duration of these stratigraphic breaks with respect to the environmental anomaly -- reflecting a dramatic change in the cycling of carbon on Earth 's surface -- and subsequent biological innovations form the cornerstone of their conclusions , and deserve closer examination . Spectacular fossil animal embryos ( 13 , 14 ) of great evolutionary importance are found at Weng'an ( some 375 km to the southwest of the authors ' study area ) , where the Doushantuo Formation accumulated closer to the shoreline and records only a single surface of unconformity . In such nearshore environments , oceanic sediments are often exposed above sea level , resulting in the removal of underlying sediments and hence the erasure of some fraction of geological time . Which of the two hiatal surfaces from the deeper-water sections at the Yangtze Gorges correlates to the single unconformity at Weng'an ? The data are more equivocal than presented by Condon et al. , and the choice carries important evolutionary consequences . At the Yangtze Gorges , the extraordinary carbon cycle anomaly recorded in marine carbonates near the top of the Doushanto Formation is truncated by the uppermost unconformity . Condon et al . suggest that there is little time missing across the surface , thereby preserving a causal relation between the environmental perturbation and the rapid diversification of Ediacara organisms and associated faunas around 550 million years ago . However , correlation of this surface and the intervening sediments back to Weng'an tells another story . At Weng'an , both the carbon cycle anomaly and the sediments typical of the uppermost Doushantuo Formation at the Yangtze Gorges are missing , implying a substantial hiatus . Comparison of broadly equivalent strata in southern Australia and the western United States suggests a stratigraphic architecture similar to that in southern China , where similar carbon cycle anomalies are truncated by unconformities ( 15 ) . In the western United States , the post-anomaly unconformity removes a minimum of 130 m of section , more than the entire thickness of the Doushantuo Formation . These observations suggest that the unconformity separating the Ediacaran faunas and the carbon cycle anomaly in southern China may , in fact , hide a lot of time , thereby decoupling the environmental and biological events that the authors wish to connect . This is not meant to detract from the important radiometric calibration that Condon et al . provide , but rather to note that the stratigraphic relations between these dates , and therefore their connection to evolutionary events , are far from straightforward . According to Condon et al. , the rapid diversification of complex multicellular organisms in Ediacaran oceans forced the carbon cycle anomaly seen worldwide , but this seems possible only if there is no real time missing across the upper Doushantuo unconformity . If this is not the case , then this interpretation may be placing the cart before the horse . Alternative models suggest that environmental changes may have driven evolutionary transformations . In particular , atmospheric oxygen -- long believed to be an external forcing factor to evolution -- appears to have built up rapidly during the Ediacaran Period , not because of a discrete biological event but as a result of the tectonic forces that lift and erode mountain ranges ( 16 ) . Through precise radiometric clocks and clever stratigraphic connections , geoscientists can increasingly correlate Ediacaran sediments that are separated widely in space and time . These tools allow us to piece together a complex puzzle of unforgettable biological events against a background of repetitive climatic and environmental perturbations . However , even with exact dates , the cyclicity of these events and the specter of a fragmentary rock record add uncertainty to our picture of Ediacaran Earth history . References 1 . A. H. Knoll et al. , Science 305 , [ 621 ] ( 2004 ) . 2 . J. P. Grotzinger et al. , Science 270 , [ 598 ] ( 1995 ) . 3 . M. W. Martin et al. , Science 288 , [ 841 ] ( 2000 ) . 4 . J. E. Amthor et al. , Geology 31 , 431 ( 2003 ) [ Abstract ] . 5 . K.-H. Hoffmann et al. , Geology 32 , 817 ( 2004 ) [ Abstract ] . 6 . C. R. Zhou et al. , Geology 32 , 437 ( 2004 ) [ Abstract ] . 7 . D. Condon et al. , Science 308 , 95 ( 2005 ) ; published online 24 February 2005 ( 10.1126/science.1107765 ) . 8 . S. J. Burns , A . Matter , Eclogae Geol . Helv . 86 , 595 ( 1993 ) . 9 . C. R. Calver , Precambrian Res . 100 , 121 ( 2000 ) [ Abstract ] . 10 . F. A. Corsetti , A. J. Kaufman , Geol . Soc . Am . Bull . 115 , 916 ( 2003 ) [ Abstract ] . 11 . P. F. Hoffman et al. , Science 281 , [ 1342 ] ( 1998 ) . 12 . P. F. Hoffman , D. P. Schrag , Terra Nova 14 , 129 ( 2002 ) [ Abstract ] . 13 . S. H. Xiao et al. , Nature 391 , 553 ( 1998 ) [ Abstract ] . 14 . J. Y. Chen et al. , Science 305 , [ 218 ] ( 2004 ) . 15 . N. Christie-Blick et al. , Am . J. Sci . 290A , 295 ( 1990 ) . 16 . A. J. Kaufman , F. A. Corsetti , EOS Trans . AGU 85 , Fall Meet . Suppl . Abstr . PP41A-0575 ( 2004 ) .""","""So , any creationist want to tell us why these people are so wrong ? Is the international committee a sign of a conspiracy ? Are they trying to hide the fact that radiometric dating techniques do n't work ? Is there really a strong causal relationship between the environmental changes recorded in the rocks and the fossils found there ? Is there really `` missing time `` or was the 85 million years of the Ediacaran Period really contained in 100m of rock ? Is atmospheric oxygen a result of tectonic forces ? Well , what part of this article do creationist object to ?""",DISAGREE,"""Early animals ? A pile of three-dimensionally preserved Comparison of broadly equivalent strata in southern Australia and the western United States suggests a stratigraphic architecture similar to that in southern China""","""So , any creationist want to tell us why these people are so wrong ? Is the international committee a sign of a conspiracy ?""",,
37969,9929,"""Well try Arkansas ( 75/25 ) , Georgia ( 76/24 ) , Kentucky ( 75/25 ) , Michigan ( 59/41 ) , Mississippi ( 86/14 ) , Montana ( 67/33 ) , North Dakota ( 73/27 ) , Ohio ( 62/38 ) , Oklahoma ( 76/24 ) , Oregon ( 57/43 ) , and Utah ( 66/34 ) . All of these margins were well above the percentage of votes cast for Bush and Kerry , respectively . Ohio , for instance , went to Bush by 2 % , but the ban was passed by 24 % . Bush lost Oregon by 4 % , but the ban passed by 14 % . Bush lost Michigan by 3 % , but the ban passed by 18 % . The margin of victory for each of these states exceeds George Bush 's margin of victory in that state . Those extra votes had to come from somewhere , and it seems like many people other than the `` religious right `` feel the same way .""","""Here in the Midwest , large numbers of diehard black Democrats voted for Kerry and against gay marriage . It truly was a cross-over issue that transcended party politics .""",AGREE,"""Well try Arkansas ( 75/25 ) , Georgia ( 76/24 ) , Kentucky ( 75/25 ) , Michigan ( 59/41 ) , Mississippi ( 86/14 ) , Montana""","""Here in the Midwest , large numbers of diehard black Democrats voted for Kerry and against gay marriage .""",,
37990,9931,"""Milesian Race vs Anglo-Saxon race . They just happen to be Protestants and Catholics . Sorry , I should have known that would be over your head .""","""So you subscribe to the inaccurate idea that Irish people are part of a different group to the English people ? Genetics indicate that the UK is made up of a fairly homogenous group of people stretching back for thousands of years ....""",DISAGREE,"""Milesian Race vs Anglo-Saxon race . They just happen to be Protestants and Catholics .""","""So you subscribe to the inaccurate idea that Irish people are part of a different group to the English people ?""",,
38017,9935,"""Sorry to tell you this , but Behe already refuted the idea :  “ The important question for us biochemists is , can symbiosis explain the origin of complex biochemical systems ? Clearly it can not . The essence of symbiosis is the joining of separate cells , or two separate systems , both of which are already functioning ... Because symbiosis starts with complex , already functioning systems it can not account for the fundamental biochemical systems we have discussed in this book. ” ( Darwin ’ s Black Box , page189 )""","""And once again , is this a strong enough rebuttal to assert proof ? no , Behe assumes that a biochemical system that exists today can not have a precursor , or less complex state of existence . Clive did a good job of demolishing this notion with the mouse trap example he lin the debate thread .""",DISAGREE,"""Behe already refuted the idea symbiosis explain the origin of complex biochemical functioning systems it can not account for the fundamental biochemical""","""enough rebuttal to assert proof biochemical system that exists today can not have a precursor""",,
38025,9936,"""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 - 400,000 http : //www.dentalgain.org/erect.html this says 300,000""","""www.you'realiar.com says I 'm right . I 'll respond to the sole credible one you have . http : //www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/walker/classes/anth121/121archaic.pdf # search='rhodesian % 20man % 20400 % 2C000 % 20years ' 300,000 It says at least 300,000 years and the rest of your argument supports evolution , even stating some are transitional fossils . Well , you did n't read your article .""",DISAGREE,"""http : //www.baptistlink.com/dman/fossil4.html this says 200,000 -""","""www.you'realiar.com says I 'm right .""",,
38030,9937,"""how is that fair ? basically your reasoning is `` lets just give the christians the whole marriage thing , and let the gays get married at city hall by a 67 year old judge who probably doesnt agree with them anyways. `` i mean , what happened to the separtion of church and state ? did we , somewhere along the line forget , that little document we call the constitution . it dosnt simply say `` see bible `` everybody should have equal rights . no matter your race , creed , or religion . if joe and bob want to get married , how the heck is it our place to stop them ? and im sorry if it makes you uncomfortable to think of that , but unless joe comes to your house to shoot your dog , its not really your concern . and come on , im tired of all these ppl using the bible to cover up simple ignorance and prejudice . so why dont we all take a hop-skip-and- jump into 2007 , re evaluate our morals , and get a clue .""","""You have to remember that those christians believe that the laws of God superceed those of man . That thier allegiance is to God and his laws above those of the constitution . They also believe that all should be subject to Gods by force if nesesary .""",DISAGREE,"""if joe and bob want to get married , how the heck is it our place to stop them ?""","""You have to remember that those christians believe that the laws of God superceed those of man""",,
38034,9938,"""Maybe they 're just trying to prevent any more kids from being shot by mistake .""","""You are joking right ?""",DISAGREE,"""Maybe they 're just trying to prevent any more kids from being shot by mistake .""","""You are joking right ?""",,
38043,9940,"""( 4 ) No example of true evolution from one basic `` kind `` into another `` kind `` is known either in the present world or in the fossil record of the past .""","""What 's a `` kind `` ? Of course , evolution is a slow process so only a fool would expect to see one `` kind `` of animal change into another `` kind. `` But there are some quite good examples in the fossil record . The horse and the whale are two . And the dinosaur to bird line is getting better all the time .""",DISAGREE,"""example true evolution from one basic `` kind `` into another `` kind `` is known""","""What 's a `` kind ? evolution is a slow process only a fool would expect to see one `` kind `` of animal change into another `` kind. `` good examples in the fossil record .""",,
38077,9947,"""If it was anybody I was choose adult stem cells . My whole point is that adult stem cells work and embryonic cells do n't .""","""well , then why are the doctors trying 2 also test the embyonic cells ? what 's their reason then ? we do n't know , because the doctors might not want everything that they 're doing be on the front page of every newspaper . they have their reasons for their actions , and they just do n't want people like you to know about them . or ... they already have their reasons published and everything and you 're just 2 close-minded 2 take the information in .""",DISAGREE,"""My whole point is that adult stem cells work and embryonic cells do n't .""","""then why are the doctors trying 2 also test the embyonic cells ? what 's their reason then ?""",,
38078,9947,"""If it was anybody I was choose adult stem cells . My whole point is that adult stem cells work and embryonic cells do n't .""","""well , then why are the doctors trying 2 also test the embyonic cells ? what 's their reason then ? we do n't know , because the doctors might not want everything that they 're doing be on the front page of every newspaper . they have their reasons for their actions , and they just do n't want people like you to know about them . or ... they already have their reasons published and everything and you 're just 2 close-minded 2 take the information in .""",DISAGREE,"""My whole point is that adult stem cells work and embryonic cells do n't .""","""well , then why are the doctors trying 2 also test the embyonic cells ?""",,
38092,9949,"""ah , but why do you use the word concept for both evolution and intelligent design ? Evolution is a theory that has been studied , given evidence , and offered up for peer review . Intelligent design is simply a concept , a single belief . Evolution is a theory that can be backed up and the world can benefit from it . How can the world benefit from a simple statement that there is an intelligent designer . This has absolutely no application to the natural world today .""","""Intelligent design is a recent concept ( not associated with any one religion ) and it has n't had over 100 years to be studied . Why not start now ? It ca n't happen if we block it from future generations . Why not give it a chance , study it , search for evidence , and offer it up for peer review ? What are you afraid of ? That it can mathematically rule out previous evolutionary theories ?""",DISAGREE,"""Evolution is a theory that has been studied , given evidence , and offered up for peer review .""","""It ca n't happen if we block it from future generations . Why not give it a chance""",,
38100,9951,"""I guess it depends on your perspective . IMO , a Starbucks that allows legal gun owners to carry should be safer than one in which only criminals carry .""","""Safer by openly carrying unloaded handguns ? That 's the law in CA . Of course you can have a loaded magazine or two on the other hip . http : //abclocal.go.com/kgo/story ? sec ... bay & amp ; id=7261522""",DISAGREE,"""a Starbucks that allows legal gun owners to carry should be safer than one in which only criminals carry .""","""Safer by openly carrying unloaded handguns ? That 's the law in CA . Of course you can have a loaded magazine or two on the other hip .""",,
38120,9954,""" “ Contrary to what marriage redefinition activists might argue , redefining marriage in New Hampshire would have serious consequences for the religious community beyond the limited protections the governor has proposed ,  ” said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Austin R. Nimocks .  “ The governor is right to recognize the threat to religious liberty , but he underestimates the threat by a long shot . Where are the protections for business owners with religious objections to recognizing same-sex  ‘ marriages ’ ? Formally affiliated organizations are not the only ones who need their religious liberty protected. ” ... After reviewing the proposed language of the statute , ADF attorneys claim that religious organizations would be forced to recognize counterfeit  “ marriages ” of potential clients or customers in many situations or face severe consequences .""","""ADF : NH gov 's proposed revisions to marriage redefinition bill fail religious freedom test - Alliance Defense Fund - Defending Our First Liberty And there it is ... The repeated demand from the anti-gay for SPECIAL PRIVILEGES for the `` religious `` detractors . I fully support CHURCHES and PASTORS from being exempt , but it 's not necessary . Currently , our RELIGIOUS discrimination protection is much stronger than our gay discrimination protection , but do you see churches being forced to perform inter-religion marriage if the church doctrine is against it ? NO ! Do you see atheists saying `` I like the look of this church . I do n't belong , but I 'm going to force you to rent the church for my wedding party anyways. `` ? ? NO ! The existing language and constitutional protections are good enough . But when given more explicit ( redundant ) wording , what do the anti-gay marriage organizations demand ? Something NO GROUP HAS EVER HAD before . They want BUSINESS OWNERS to be free to discriminate if they have `` religious objections `` ... What if their objections are NON-religious in nature ? Why is the religion supposed to get the special perk ? ? ? And as mentioned , NO GROUP HAS EVER HAD this . There were plenty of religious interpretations against black equality and interracial marriage . But did we give THEM special privilege to ignore and discriminate against interracial marriages ? NO ! The really refreshing part of all this ? These whiny temper tantrums just do n't matter ... If the NH legislature includes the religious exceptions ( if they are just reconfirming that churches / pastors do n't have to perform ceremonies they do n't want to ) , then the governor WILL sign it .""",DISAGREE,"""redefining marriage in New Hampshire would have serious consequences for the religious community""","""NH gov 's proposed revisions to marriage redefinition bill fail religious freedom test""",,
38122,9954,""" “ Contrary to what marriage redefinition activists might argue , redefining marriage in New Hampshire would have serious consequences for the religious community beyond the limited protections the governor has proposed ,  ” said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Austin R. Nimocks .  “ The governor is right to recognize the threat to religious liberty , but he underestimates the threat by a long shot . Where are the protections for business owners with religious objections to recognizing same-sex  ‘ marriages ’ ? Formally affiliated organizations are not the only ones who need their religious liberty protected. ” ... After reviewing the proposed language of the statute , ADF attorneys claim that religious organizations would be forced to recognize counterfeit  “ marriages ” of potential clients or customers in many situations or face severe consequences .""","""ADF : NH gov 's proposed revisions to marriage redefinition bill fail religious freedom test - Alliance Defense Fund - Defending Our First Liberty And there it is ... The repeated demand from the anti-gay for SPECIAL PRIVILEGES for the `` religious `` detractors . I fully support CHURCHES and PASTORS from being exempt , but it 's not necessary . Currently , our RELIGIOUS discrimination protection is much stronger than our gay discrimination protection , but do you see churches being forced to perform inter-religion marriage if the church doctrine is against it ? NO ! Do you see atheists saying `` I like the look of this church . I do n't belong , but I 'm going to force you to rent the church for my wedding party anyways. `` ? ? NO ! The existing language and constitutional protections are good enough . But when given more explicit ( redundant ) wording , what do the anti-gay marriage organizations demand ? Something NO GROUP HAS EVER HAD before . They want BUSINESS OWNERS to be free to discriminate if they have `` religious objections `` ... What if their objections are NON-religious in nature ? Why is the religion supposed to get the special perk ? ? ? And as mentioned , NO GROUP HAS EVER HAD this . There were plenty of religious interpretations against black equality and interracial marriage . But did we give THEM special privilege to ignore and discriminate against interracial marriages ? NO ! The really refreshing part of all this ? These whiny temper tantrums just do n't matter ... If the NH legislature includes the religious exceptions ( if they are just reconfirming that churches / pastors do n't have to perform ceremonies they do n't want to ) , then the governor WILL sign it .""",DISAGREE,"""Senior Legal Counsel Austin R. Nimocks .  The governor is right to recognize the threat to religious liberty ,""","""There were plenty of religious interpretations against black equality and interracial marriage""",,
38133,9957,"""Some would say , the answer is that man is both a physical being ( evolutionist ) and is for the lack of a better word , a spiritual being ( creationist ) . So , in a sense they are both right . In short , an ape like creature was zapped with a spirit and thus became human . In layman 's terms that is what happened . The interesting part is understanding the true nature of this zap and what that means to our future .""",""".........""",DISAGREE,"""the answer is that man is both a physical being ( evolutionist ) and is for the lack of a better word""",""".........""",,
38135,9958,"""with contraceptives though a human is created and thus ca n't be denied an opportuntity to be born . The human part has n't happened yet while after fusion it has .""","""But thats not what unkerpaulie was getting at . Contraceptives deny the possibility of life , just at a different stage . There should be no mystique over conception as a substantial percentage of fertilized embryo 's ( a human life in your estimation ) are going straight down the toliet when nature is left to take its course . At least the Catholic opposition to contraception can be viewed as being morally consistent , ie . there is no man-made intervention permitted in the human reproductive process .""",AGREE,"""contraceptives ca n't be denied an opportuntity to be born""","""Contraceptives deny the possibility of life , just at a different stage .""",,
38186,9968,"""Since they are issued by the military I would think so .""","""But you still feel they have the right idea when it comes to firearms ?""",DISAGREE,"""Since they are issued by the military I would think so .""","""But you still feel they have the right idea when it comes to firearms ?""",,
38203,9972,"""[ i ] You 've lost this round time and time again . If you keep posting this nonsense then Tither 's gon na come around , point out the exhaustive studies that show there 's no link between gun control and reduced levels of violence ,""","""It is ALL repeated time after time , and time again then again . But you are correct . Here is one of the links to those studies . The Continual Appearance of the Slippery Slope Fallacy But what do we do about this ? http : //works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcon ... dennis_culhane Which is a study of criminals shooting criminals but it is hoped that people will think it is about Law Abiding Concealed Carry . This is NOT representative of Law-abiding Concealed Carry or legal gun ownership in any way . And we have this . Guns and Death - Firearms Research - Harvard Injury Control Research Center - Harvard School of Public Health So lets look at the actual crime figures to see if any of this holds water . According to this 1999 article there were 250 million guns in circulation in 1999 . Total NICS Background Checks November 30 , 1998 - June 30 , 2009""",DISAGREE,"""If you keep posting this nonsense then Tither 's gon na come around""","""It is ALL repeated time after time , and time again then again . But you are correct .""",,
38206,9973,"""They moved and continue to move . I will attempt to find some sites where creationist have studied this further and relay them to you .""","""Actually , creationists have n't studied this further . That would imply actually condisering the evidence . The creationist stories you will find wo n't be `` study `` but just ad hoc stories with no more foundation in fact than the Bible myths themselves .""",DISAGREE,"""I will attempt to find some sites where creationist have studied this further and relay them to you .""","""The creationist stories you will find wo n't be `` study `` but just ad hoc stories with no more foundation in fact than the Bible myths themselves .""",,
38207,9974,"""To the unprejudiced , the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation .""","""This is not true or requires at least more justification .""",DISAGREE,"""the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation .""","""This is not true or requires at least more justification .""",,
38233,9982,"""I do n't discount that it happens , and do acknowledge that there are people out there that do that sort of thing . But I really do believe that it 's the definite exception rather than the rule , and personal ideology should n't be made part of something like a job interview .""","""I think it would be an exception as well . But if you see an indicator that might point to an `` exception `` , I think the question should be asked . Consider the flip side of things . The question does n't get asked . If Skip had been the type of man to let a gay couple 's house burn to spite gays , do n't you think that the gay couple would have had grounds to sue the city in such a situation ? Part of this is just the city covering its own XXX . If they ask the question , and the guy lies , they have helped to cover their own XXX by asking the question .""",AGREE,"""really do believe that it 's the definite exception rather than the rule""","""I think it would be an exception as well .""",,
38235,9983,"""Icons of Evolution : Science or Myth ? Why Much of What We Teach About Evolution is Wrong by Jonathan Wells I appologise for not remembering the exact title , but its definately a good read .""","""I 'm not familiar with the book , so ca n't comment upon it first hand . However http : //www.ncseweb.org/icons/ appears to have a detailed critique of the book and may be of interest to you too . As I say I have n't read the original so can not judge the quality of the link I 'm supplying , so apologies in advance if it grossly misrepresents Mr Well 's case .""",DISAGREE,"""Icons of Evolution : Science or Myth ? Why Much of What We Teach About Evolution is Wrong by Jonathan Wells definately a good read .""","""I 'm not familiar with the book , so ca n't comment upon it first hand . However http : //www.ncseweb.org/icons/ appears to have a detailed critique of the book and may be of interest to you too .""",,
38244,9984,"""Voice of Reason ? HmmÂ…He used to be in Military Intelligence hence the debacle in Vietnam . He probably still thinks that the US won the war .""","""Are you sure ? VOR is a 14 year old kid from Florida . His IP is squarely from a ISP from Florida . If he is retired , he is the first person I have ever heard who was 60+ that used slang normally reserved for street gangs . Not to mention that his war stories place him in two different seas at the same time . Somehow 2 tours turned into 4 , midlevel ship officer turned into high ranking military advisor . All in all , VOR is far more of a liability to any of his allies because of his lying , lack of education and reading comphrension problems .""",DISAGREE,"""used to be in Military Intelligence He""","""Are you sure ? VOR is a 14 year old kid from Florida . His IP is squarely from a ISP from Florida . If he is retired , he is the first person I have ever heard who was 60+ that used slang normally reserved for street gangs .""",,
38271,9986,"""Can you reasonably change your mind about something like that in 2 weeks ? Is he a pathological liar or does he just say the opposite of everything Bush says ?""","""Would you like to see a list of links to Bush 's flip flops ? www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/7/213753/1954 - http : //www.americanprogress.org/site ... RJ8OVF & amp ; b=42263 www.matthewyglesias.com/archives/002709.html www.democrats.org/specialreports/top10_flipflops www.compassiongate.com/promises econ161.berkeley.edu/movable_type/2004_archives/000444.html www.flipfloppingbush.com www.metafilter.com/mefi/31638 http : //www.interventionmag.com/cms/m ... le=article & amp ; sid =685 wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/000820.html happy ?""",DISAGREE,"""Can you reasonably change your mind about something like that in 2 weeks ?""","""Would you like to see a list of links to Bush 's flip flops ?""",,
38294,9989,"""That does not mean , however , that we should refrain out of politeness from making statements of established scientific fact just because a listener might have been exposed to contradictory religious beliefs . It is not the job of science to fix or accommodate the inaccuracies of religion . Within science classrooms , science is and should remain pre-eminent , so that people can make informed decisions .""","""But it should be the job of science to establish a clear line between just where established fact stops and philosophy starts . There 's no indication that they 're getting it done .""",DISAGREE,"""It is not the job of science to fix or accommodate the inaccuracies of religion .""","""But it should be the job of science to establish a clear line between just where established fact stops and philosophy starts .""",,
38310,9991,"""Typical little child , all he can offer is condescending insults while never daring to refute the arguments made . But you 're in good company as that is all your cohorts can do also . You must reject and denigrate that which is just as reasonable an explanation of the available evidence as your side offers . That 's why it 's a waste of time going around in circles with you guys . But I 've made my point . Again , What is shown very clearly from all of these scientific interpretation of the same evidence is that there are two ways to interpret it . But for you evos to claim victory based on your interpretation which is as biased as ours is , is the epitome of arrogance . We may have to agree to disagree peeling , but do n't you dare just assume you 're right and the debate is over because you have proven nothing absolutely .""","""How do you `` interpret `` all those extant historical records bracketing the `` flood `` date by several hundred years , as shown by sinjin , which record no such event ?""",DISAGREE,"""is shown very clearly from all of these scientific interpretation of the same evidence is that there are two ways to interpret it .""","""How do you `` interpret `` all those extant historical records bracketing the `` flood `` date by several hundred years , as shown by sinjin , which record no such event ?""",,
38322,9994,"""Also , if what you say is true , and they can just `` marry `` without the celebration , what 's the point in banning it ? They 're getting `` married `` anyway , right ?""","""Who said anything about banning it ?""",DISAGREE,"""if what you say is true , and they can just `` marry `` without the celebration , what 's the point in banning it ?""","""Who said anything about banning it ?""",,
38330,9996,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ? Meaning for instance ... if after amniocentesis it is discovered that the child has down syndrome or if it is discovered the child will be born with no legs the previously hoping and willing parents decide to abort for this reason . Do pro abortion people support this ?""","""I believe prochoice people support choice . I do n't know what proabortion people support . I 've never met one .""",DISAGREE,"""Do pro abortion people support euthanasia as a reason for abortion ?""","""I believe prochoice people support choice .""",,
38337,9999,"""The ID movements form of ID states that there are `` large gaps `` in the theory of evolution that can only be explained by the presence of a supernatural designer . Behe is happy to think that it is the christian god ( like the rest of them ) , but they ar n't allowed to say that , because if they do , they violate that annoying ammendment ! The ID argument is not scientific , because it 's not falsifiable , and has no supporting evidence . The ID movement relies solely on LACK of evidence for evolution , which is complete bunk . Just because we do n't know yet , it does n't mean that godditit . ( Incedentally , most of Behe 's claims of `` Irreducible Complexity `` are already destroyed by science , as DamEtel will be more than happy to explain . )""","""That , of course , is the logical fallacy known as 'Personal incredibility `` . The concept he promoted of `` irreducilble complex `` has been shown to be devoid of any meaning . All example he showed of 'gaps ' in systems he proclaimed to be 'irredibly complex ' have been shown to be reducible . Some were even found to be reducible even BEFORE his book `` Darwin 's black box ' was published . Those gaps in knowledge were filled in . What Behe was basiclaly saying is 'Gosh , we do n't know , it must have been God ' . We found out . God retreats . Yes , there are unknowns , and probably always will be . But our ignornace is not evidence of an intelligent designer . To promote an intelligent designer as a scientific theory , you have to have evidence FOR an intellient designer , rather than gaps in the knowlege of how biochemical systems formed . Believing in a God is fine , but it is n't science .""",DISAGREE,"""The ID movements form of ID states that there are `` large gaps `` in the theory of evolution that can only be explained by the presence of a supernatural designer .""","""of course , is the logical fallacy known as 'Personal incredibility `` . The concept he promoted of `` irreducilble complex""",,
38344,10003,"""I enjoy Botany more than most things and I have heard of a couple of Botanical Experiments that involve ; * 1. pressurizing a plant stem with CO2 and * 2. bringing in outside sun light through fiber optic cable for the plant . It brings in the full spectrum light in high lumens , but , because it 's glass - it blocks harmful rays . Does anyone here have knowledge of where I might acquire the supplies necessary to conduct such experiments ?""","""Hi Smallax , welcome to the forum . I did a search and have found some products which might give you an idea about costs and concepts for performing such an experiment . It sounds interesting by the way . First , I found Glass Bell jars that are safe at high pressure . https : //www1.fishersci.com/wps/porta ... =y & amp ; fromSearch= Here 's a Nalgene vacuum chamber as another option to the Bell Jar depending on the pressure you 're going to use . https : //www1.fishersci.com/wps/porta ... =y & amp ; fromSearch= Here 's a motor driven vacuum pump : https : //www1.fishersci.com/wps/porta ... =y & amp ; fromSearch= Here 's a precalibrated absolute zero apparatus : https : //www1.fishersci.com/wps/porta ... =y & amp ; fromSearch= This link gives a wide range of products that you might want to be aware of for a wider selection of potential equipment : https : //www1.fishersci.com/wps/porta ... & amp ; catCode=SE_SC Here 's a fiber optic system which is interesting and utilizes natural light : Huvco Daylighing Solutions | Parans Fiber Optic Systems | Tubular Skylights | High Performance Skylights Here 's another design but is a different company : SUNLIGHT DIRECT Keep us informed if you run the experiment . I 'd be interested in the results .""",AGREE,"""I enjoy Botany more than most things and I have heard of a couple of Botanical Experiments that involve ; *""","""Hi Smallax , welcome to the forum . I did a search and have found some products which might give you an idea about costs""",,